Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[G-Unit]

Admission the parents were lying about the jemmied shutters? and suggesting the abduction took place via a window?  ... lets pretend they didn't say that- re write history. Glad you all moved on.

Moved on to what?

[pegasus]

The mainstream non-abduction theory imagines that the open window and shutter were staged.
The mainstream abduction theory imagines that the open window and shutter were staged (by a supposed abductor who entered and departed by a door).

Both theories seem to reject the opening of window and shutter from outside as impossible?

But the fact is:-  If the window lock button is not deliberately pressed, then both the window and the shutter can be easily opened from outside with no damage at all.

[Carana]

Admission the parents were lying about the jemmied shutters? and suggesting the abduction took place via a window?  ... lets pretend they didn't say that- re write history. Glad you all moved on.

They seem to have thought that in the initial panic in talking to the relatives, who then repeated it to the media in their own attempts to get things moving.

They may have thought that to be a strong possibility for a while, even though it had been establshed that the shutter showed no signs of forced entry.

If I suddenly walked into my home and found shutters up and a window open, I'd have assumed that that was the mode of entry as well.

Initial assumptions in a panic situation aren't always correct.

Why on earth the PJ didn't do anything more to check out potential duplicate keys with the window as a potential red herring remains a mystery to me.

[Carana]

The mainstream non-abduction theory imagines that the open window and shutter were staged.
The mainstream abduction theory imagines that the open window and shutter were staged (by a supposed abductor who entered and departed by a door).

Both theories seem to reject the opening of window and shutter from outside as impossible?

But the fact is:-  If the window lock button is not deliberately pressed, then both the window and the shutter can be easily opened from outside with no damage at all.

I haven't discounted your theory of an aborted attempt to open the shutter from the outside.

Heri demonstrated that it would be technically possible to lift a child outside without actually entering... but the idea that a child of that age would willingly move towards the source of a strange noise in the night and be allowed to be picked up and taken out of the window seems extremely unlikely to me.

[Mr Gray]

Moved on to what?

moved on to the parents not being suspects and SY spending 10 mill investigating suspects in portugal

[Brietta]

I haven't discounted your theory of an aborted attempt to open the shutter from the outside.

Heri demonstrated that it would be technically possible to lift a child outside without actually entering... but the idea that a child of that age would willingly move towards the source of a strange noise in the night and be allowed to be picked up and taken out of the window seems extremely unlikely to me.

That was the only part of Heri's theory that I had an issue with.

I didn't think the child would advance towards the window voluntarily and thought she could only have been passed through by an accomplice.
My main thought about the open window was as an escape route should the intruder be disturbed.

Then I read that it actually had occurred ...

**snip
A three-year-old girl was kidnapped by a stranger through her bedroom window - but miraculously saved when her father and uncle chased her abductor down the street, police have said.
The unidentified youngster was allegedly snatched by the hooded man after he leaned through her window at her family's Southern California home on Thursday and told her to 'come toward him'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2903401/Girl-three-kidnapped-stranger-bedroom-window-miraculously-saved-father-uncle-chase-abductor-street-tackle-him.html#ixzz3g3pKjVt4

[pegasus]

I haven't discounted your theory of an aborted attempt to open the shutter from the outside.

Heri demonstrated that it would be technically possible to lift a child outside without actually entering... but the idea that a child of that age would willingly move towards the source of a strange noise in the night and be allowed to be picked up and taken out of the window seems extremely unlikely to me.

His video shows the opening method well. Stop the video there.
Now ask 100 young kids which direction they would go when someone opened their bedroom window from outside in the middle of the night. It will be a 100 to 0 unanimous vote, and it certainly won't be "walk towards window".

[Benice]

Admission the parents were lying about the jemmied shutters? and suggesting the abduction took place via a window?  ... lets pretend they didn't say that- re write history. Glad you all moved on.

You seem to be stuck in 'day one' of Madeleine's disappearance.

However, if the idea was to open the shutters and window to prove to the police that an intruder had entered that way - then why didn't the McCanns make sure there were scuffs or marks on the wall/window cill to show that?

If they were going to claim the shutters had been forced open then why didn't they make marks on them to indicate that?     

Why didn't Gerry stand sentinel over the open shutters/window until the police arrived -  if this was his master-plan - which was going to prove to the police that Madeleine had been abducted by a stranger? 

And why on earth would he close the shutters/window BEFORE the police arrived - thus destroying his own plan?

The McCanns were educated intelligent people  - not the  brainless idiots they would have to be to NOT realise any of the above when they were apparently cooking up this grand plan to exonerate themselves.   I would have thought that anyone with a modicum of common sense could see that.

Kate found the window/shutters open and her daughter gone.  At that moment in time she would have been abnormal IMO  -not to think that an intruder had broken in that way and taken her daughter.     And so that was their very first assumption.    Later on they accepted that there were other ways an intruder could have entered/left  5A. 

Anyone who thinks the  McCanns are still claiming today that their child was definitely abducted via the window is way behind the times  IMO.   

[Carana]

That was the only part of Heri's theory that I had an issue with.

I didn't think the child would advance towards the window voluntarily and thought she could only have been passed through by an accomplice.
My main thought about the open window was as an escape route should the intruder be disturbed.

Then I read that it actually had occurred ...

**snip
A three-year-old girl was kidnapped by a stranger through her bedroom window - but miraculously saved when her father and uncle chased her abductor down the street, police have said.
The unidentified youngster was allegedly snatched by the hooded man after he leaned through her window at her family's Southern California home on Thursday and told her to 'come toward him'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2903401/Girl-three-kidnapped-stranger-bedroom-window-miraculously-saved-father-uncle-chase-abductor-street-tackle-him.html#ixzz3g3pKjVt4

Nothing's impossible, but I just find it extremely unlikely.

On the other hand, I haven't found any more news about the recent case of the little girl in France who had apparently been taken out of her bed through what would seem to be open French windows on her bedroom balcony without screaming the place down.

Her parents and sister were sleeping nearby and didn't hear a thing.

[pegasus]

That was the only part of Heri's theory that I had an issue with.

I didn't think the child would advance towards the window voluntarily and thought she could only have been passed through by an accomplice.
My main thought about the open window was as an escape route should the intruder be disturbed.

Then I read that it actually had occurred ...

**snip
A three-year-old girl was kidnapped by a stranger through her bedroom window - but miraculously saved when her father and uncle chased her abductor down the street, police have said.
The unidentified youngster was allegedly snatched by the hooded man after he leaned through her window at her family's Southern California home on Thursday and told her to 'come toward him'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2903401/Girl-three-kidnapped-stranger-bedroom-window-miraculously-saved-father-uncle-chase-abductor-street-tackle-him.html#ixzz3g3pKjVt4

That Calif child's bed was next to the window - the man grabbed her from outside before she could run from her bed.
If the Calif bed had been on the opposite side of the room from the window, certainly she would have run away from the window, out of her bedroom into a different room.

Here's a clue - in the Calif case - and in Heri's anti-instinctive walk to window theory - the bedroom door position would remain unchanged - wouldn't it?

[Brietta]

That California child's bed was next to the window - the man grabbed her from outside before she could run from her bed.
If the Calif bed had been on the opposite side of the room from the window, certainly she would have run away from the window, out of her bedroom into a different room.

Here's a clue - in the Calif case - and in Heri's anti-instinctive walk to window theory - the bedroom door position would remain unchanged - wouldn't it?

I don't know the layout of the furniture in the California bedroom, Pegasus, I was going on the aunt's statement that the whole family were in the house and the child was summoned to the window.

The bedroom door in 5A could have been disturbed by Madeleine going to the toilet which would still fit the theory of the child approaching the window.

I remain of the opinion that a key was used to effect entry and exit; whether that was carried out by a lone intruder or one acting with accomplices, I have no idea.
The California incident in relation to what happened to Madeleine is food for thought though.

[pegasus]

I don't know the layout of the furniture in the California bedroom, Pegasus, I was going on the aunt's statement that the whole family were in the house and the child was summoned to the window.

The bedroom door in 5A could have been disturbed by Madeleine going to the toilet which would still fit the theory of the child approaching the window.

I remain of the opinion that a key was used to effect entry and exit; whether that was carried out by a lone intruder or one acting with accomplices, I have no idea.
The California incident in relation to what happened to Madeleine is food for thought though.

Your idea (enter through a door, grab, and exit through a door) would would take only about 10 seconds total, and the window and shutter would remain unopened.
To add the complication of stumbling in almost complete darkness past two cots to open the window and shutter for no purpose would be a pointless and dangerous waste of time. And the noise of opening the shutter would wake the child in the bed who would run to another room.

[pathfinder73]

Your idea (enter through a door, grab, and exit through a door) would would take only about 10 seconds total, and the window and shutter would remain unopened.
To add the complication of stumbling in almost complete darkness past two cots to open the window and shutter for no purpose would be a pointless and dangerous waste of time. And the noise of opening the shutter would wake the child in the bed who would run to another room.

The only credible reason to open a window from the inside and raise shutters which anyone can see from the car park is to stage.

[pegasus]

The only credible reason to open a window from the inside and raise shutters which anyone can see from the car park is to stage.

The only reason to open from inside = to stage.
The only reason to open from outside = to burgle.

[Carana]

The only reason to open from inside = to stage.
The only reason to open from outside = to burgle.

A second reason to open from inside might have been as an alternative exit. It would be less visible for a child checker coming in via the patio door than opening the front door and running out in full view.

However, staging makes the most sense to me. I don't see why the parents would have done that as they both stated that they'd left the patio door unlocked anyway and at the very least also Matt.

The most likely reason, IMO, would still be someone with a key who used the window as a red herring.