Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[pegasus]

Do you think that was the case here that he thought the premises were empty ... was shocked to find the children in the room ... and made off without entry?

I think there is too much evidence supporting that in the preceding days the McCanns? but certainly the apartment had been under surveillance.  I don't think it was to conduct a petty burglary ... I think Madeleine was the target.

Yes, it looked like everyone was out.
 
Innocent people standing in the street IMO.

[Brietta]

5A balcony door exit leads directly onto a public road and there is little or no visibility of pedestrians before reaching the side gate.
Intruders normally enter properties via doors or windows so the cases you are highlighting are only unusual in that none of them appear to have evidence of forced entry.
If there is a link, police would have been investigating OC staff for knowledge of occupancy & access to keys. The fact that most of the Tapas 9 found some windows unlocked suggests cleaning staff may have been complicit.

Never thought of that, Misty.

Given the rogatory statements cited by Pegasus and the unlocked windows mentioned in them ... the gamble was that no-one would notice the windows were not locked and on this occasion it worked.  But even if some had been an accomplice would have known which windows to try.

Maybe 5A was first in line ... the penultimate day of a holiday is the day of choice for petty burglaries of tourists.

[sadie]

Just because 2 people leave an apartment doesn't mean there is nobody else in there, like a babysitter. The McCanns also left a light on, which would have been visible. A solo operator cannot watch both front & rear at the same time.
The front of Block 5 was rather busy between 8.20 & 9.15. Would anyone have hung around there & chanced their luck?

Only if there was a second person watching the comings and goings, to warn the first person, IMO

[misty]

So you think the opening of the shutter and the window was opportunistic?  Why no evidence of entry?  Was he disturbed?  Or do you think rather than a planned abduction it was unplanned and just happened?

It was planned, it had been planned for a long time. It was executed after logistical issues had been addressed and the perfect victim had been selected.
Much is in the files, if you look in the right places. It's just a question of exactly why there was such a level of protection afforded and the difficulty in untangling that web.

[pegasus]

Just because 2 people leave an apartment doesn't mean there is nobody else in there, like a babysitter. The McCanns also left a light on, which would have been visible. A solo operator cannot watch both front & rear at the same time.
The front of Block 5 was rather busy between 8.20 & 9.15. Would anyone have hung around there & chanced their luck?

Any reasonably intelligent burglar would conclude everyone was out.
If there were children and a babysitter present the couple would not turn off all lights except a tablelamp when they left.
 

[misty]

Any reasonably intelligent burglar would conclude everyone was out.
If there were children and a babysitter present the couple would not turn off all lights except a tablelamp when they left.

How could the burglar see all lights were off if the shutters were down? Did he go onto the balcony & peer through into the lounge & the parents' bedroom?

[Anna]

Only if there was a second person watching the comings and goings, to warn the first person, IMO

I totally agree there Sadie. Whether it was a burglary gone wrong or abduction , there would certainly be more than one person involved. It would have been swiftly executed and well planned.
As soon as a parent left after checking the child, would have been the safest and most likely time to be in and out again.
How could anyone have known that Gerry would be delayed and chatting to someone just around the corner and JT would arrive at the same time.?
I still believe that it was a duplicate key and in the door and child passed out of the window job…..If it was an abduction.

Room keys were kept in:


Garage for maintenance workers who had the combination for the lock
Laundry for cleaners, who didn’t have to take the key back whilst they were on lunch break
Reception for general use and clients.

(15)
 That the keys to the living quarters and apartments are under the responsibility of the Ocean Club, and are found guarded in the interior of a safe which is in the Maintenance Garage,
     whose opening code is known by all maintenance workers
(25)
During lunchtime, the keys are kept by the cleaners and are not deposited in the safes.
As far as she knows, the laundry only has one copy of each key, thinking that more keys corresponding to the apartments are kept in the reception.

15.………  Miguel Goncalves Da Costa Palma
Date/Time: 2007/05/07 18H40
Muti-purpose Operator
Portuguese
. http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-30.html
25.……… .Natália da Glória Soares Camacho
Date: 2007-05-09
Occupation: Cleaner
Place of Work: OC26-----------------------------------------------
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post235.html#p235

[Brietta]

It was planned, it had been planned for a long time. It was executed after logistical issues had been addressed and the perfect victim had been selected.
Much is in the files, if you look in the right places. It's just a question of exactly why there was such a level of protection afforded and the difficulty in untangling that web.

I am interested in what Sadie has to say on the Groundhog thread about the extraordinary behaviour of the police regarding the Porto sighting.  I will need to refresh on that because it is quite complicated.  Maybe HOLMES spotted it.

The only thing I don't know is was it specifically Madeleine they were after ... or was she just a child who fitted the bill in the appropriate location.  5A lent itself to carrying out such an operation which I think would have happened whether her parents were there or not, that was just a bonus.

I don't think the Casa Pia situation was ever fully resolved, I think the big fish are still swimming, so there might have been an element there.

Perhaps if there hadn't been such a song and dance over Madeleine the situation could have become much worse because not only do these people think they are untouchable it appears they may be.

[pegasus]

How could the burglar see all lights were off if the shutters were down? Did he go onto the balcony & peer through into the lounge & the parents' bedroom?

Shutters and curtains do not stop all light.
The shutters have light leakage built in to their design.
Lounge sliding door had both shutters open.
IIRC one side window had shutter open.

[pegasus]

Here is proof that you can tell when people go out, by looking at windows and seeing when they turn lights out.
5H observed from restaurant and from street - it's in the files.

"you could see the light on in their apartment, you could see it from the Tapas and you could see them moving around so you knew they were still there"
and then
"as I was leaving the Tapas area, you know, and their light going off and knowing that they were coming down and on their way"

[misty]

Here is proof that you can tell when people go out, by looking at windows and seeing when they turn lights out.
5H observed from restaurant and from street - it's in the files.

"you could see the light on in their apartment, you could see it from the Tapas and you could see them moving around so you knew they were still there"
and then
"as I was leaving the Tapas area, you know, and their light going off and knowing that they were coming down and on their way"

If anyone could see the Paynes moving around then the shutters weren't down.
5A front window was partly illuminated by a street light. That would affect a person's ability to judge from any distance if an interior light was on behind the shutters & curtains. The front door has no glass panel in it for light to shine through.

[pegasus]

If anyone could see the Paynes moving around then the shutters weren't down.
5A front window was partly illuminated by a street light. That would affect a person's ability to judge from any distance if an interior light was on behind the shutters & curtains. The front door has no glass panel in it for light to shine through.

At 5A the shutter of kitchen window was up, and both shutters of lounge balcony door were up.

[misty]

At 5A the shutter of kitchen window was up, and both shutters of lounge balcony door were up.

So, therefore, unoccupancy could not be guaranteed if a light was visible through the kitchen window.
Where has it been proven that both patio door shutters were open, please? Crime scene photo shows one raised, one fully lowered.

[pegasus]

So, therefore, unoccupancy could not be guaranteed if a light was visible through the kitchen window.
Where has it been proven that both patio door shutters were open, please? Crime scene photo shows one raised, one fully lowered.

The lounge door has two shutters both were up.

[misty]

The lounge door has two shutters both were up.

Cite. please. I thought the crime scene photos were hard evidence.