Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[pegasus]

Cite. please. I thought the crime scene photos were hard evidence.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/16/article-2026531-022B289200000578-87_468x310.jpg
 

[misty]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/16/article-2026531-022B289200000578-87_468x310.jpg

My apologies. Going from memory I thought one shutter was fully lowered. I will look tomorrow to see why I held that belief.
So some light would have been visible through the curtains? Was it ever established that the heavy curtains were fully closed? 

[sadie]

I totally agree there Sadie. Whether it was a burglary gone wrong or abduction , there would certainly be more than one person involved. It would have been swiftly executed and well planned.
As soon as a parent left after checking the child, would have been the safest and most likely time to be in and out again.
How could anyone have known that Gerry would be delayed and chatting to someone just around the corner and JT would arrive at the same time.?
I still believe that it was a duplicate key and in the door and child passed out of the window job…..If it was an abduction.

Room keys were kept in:


Garage for maintenance workers who had the combination for the lock
Laundry for cleaners, who didn’t have to take the key back whilst they were on lunch break
Reception for general use and clients.

(15)
 That the keys to the living quarters and apartments are under the responsibility of the Ocean Club, and are found guarded in the interior of a safe which is in the Maintenance Garage,
     whose opening code is known by all maintenance workers
(25)
During lunchtime, the keys are kept by the cleaners and are not deposited in the safes.
As far as she knows, the laundry only has one copy of each key, thinking that more keys corresponding to the apartments are kept in the reception.

15.………  Miguel Goncalves Da Costa Palma
Date/Time: 2007/05/07 18H40
Muti-purpose Operator
Portuguese
. http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-30.html
25.……… .Natália da Glória Soares Camacho
Date: 2007-05-09
Occupation: Cleaner
Place of Work: OC26-----------------------------------------------
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post235.html#p235

A lot of good work in yout post Anna; that info took some gathering   

Well done you   


The names of the keynolders might be interesting (to me).

[sadie]

I am interested in what Sadie has to say on the Groundhog thread about the extraordinary behaviour of the police regarding the Porto sighting.  I will need to refresh on that because it is quite complicated.  Maybe HOLMES spotted it.

The only thing I don't know is was it specifically Madeleine they were after ... or was she just a child who fitted the bill in the appropriate location.  5A lent itself to carrying out such an operation which I think would have happened whether her parents were there or not, that was just a bonus.

I don't think the Casa Pia situation was ever fully resolved, I think the big fish are still swimming, so there might have been an element there.

Perhaps if there hadn't been such a song and dance over Madeleine the situation could have become much worse because not only do these people think they are untouchable it appears they may be.

Some good thinking there Brietta.

Unhappily, I think they have such an important group backing them, which might come tumbling, that they are untouchables. 

The group sells itself impecably as a whiter than white organisation and with leading World figures as its members,  I cant think that any Police Force will be able to do anything.   I hope that I am wrong.


Has anyone else noticed how the badies seem to be elevated into imposing and whiter than white positions?



Tha Catholic Church especially has raised the status of pedo offenders as well as moved them elsewhere, where often/ usually they start all over again.  Elevating their status makes them more tricky to prosecute.


When i am better, I will talk to you about the Porto situation as i see it.

[sadie]

BUMPED

It was planned, it had been planned for a long time. It was executed after logistical issues had been addressed and the perfect victim had been selected.
Much is in the files, if you look in the right places. It's just a question of exactly why there was such a level of protection afforded and the difficulty in untangling that web.

 

[pegasus]

A USA case of unlocked window opened from outside.
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_21047302/girl-12-calls-cops-while-hiding-closet-during
Response of child in that case was to hide in another room.

[pathfinder73]

The shutters being raised up a little as seen in the crime scene photo was done by Dianne Webster according to her rog.

“I think I got it up so far but it became sort of err twisted.”

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

[pegasus]

The shutters being raised up a little as seen in the crime scene photo was done by Dianne Webster according to her rog.

“I think I got it up so far but it became sort of err twisted.”

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

...

Yes IMO, first is test by GM, and after that is test by DW.
(Test by FP was not on this window it was was on on adult bedroom door shutter)

[pathfinder73]

Yes IMO, first is test by GM, and after that is test by DW.
(Test by FP was not on this window it was was on on adult bedroom door shutter)

If Gerry did touch the shutters then he must have pulled them back down because when Dianne got there they were down not raised. Dianne got to the apartment 5 minutes after the alarm and only Kate was present.

But Gerry contradicts it in his statement

Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

So they should be raised not down when Dianne got there  &%+((£

They continued with searches outside around the various apartment blocks, the deponent having asked MATHEW who went to the secondary reception [where] the event was communicated to the local police, since he had no doubt that his daughter had been kidnapped [abducted]. He refutes, peremptorily, the notion [idea/hypothesis] that MADELEINE could have left the apartment by her own means.

He told Matt? It was Fiona according to her and Matt. Another query in his statement that was signed.

[pegasus]

"Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do"

When pushed up from outside, the shutter does not stay all the way up by itself -it falls back down again.
IMO he managed to raise the shutter a good fraction of the way open, but then let it fall down again by its own weight.

Exactly as in the video of Pat Brown's friend opening this shutter. If you watch that video - that is what I think GM did. So at the end of his test, it is closed. Just like in the PB friend video.

[pathfinder73]

"Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do"

When pushed up from outside, the shutter does not stay all the way up by itself -it falls back down again.
IMO he managed to raise the shutter a good fraction of the way open, but then let it fall down again by its own weight.

Exactly as in the video of Pat Brown's friend opening this shutter. If you watch that video - that is what I think GM did. So at the end of his test, it is closed. Just like in the PB friend video.

Thanks that will explain why they were down so how did Kate find them in a raised position? Why would you leave them in a raised position if they fall back down. Leave it open for anyone to see and give chase. That's the reason the PJ thought two were involved - originally Matt and Russell. One passing the child though the window to the other but when you look into it it's the most ridiculous plan ever when a safer unseen recessed door from the car park is only metres away. Full of holes.

[Brietta]

Thanks that will explain why they were down so how did Kate find them in a raised position? Why would you leave them in a raised position if they fall back down. Leave it open for anyone to see and give chase. That's the reason the PJ thought two were involved - originally Matt and Russell. One passing the child though the window to the other but when you look into it it's the most ridiculous plan ever when a safer unseen recessed door from the car park is only metres away. Full of holes.

Quite simply the shutters were in the raised position when Dr Kate McCann saw them because the person who raised them knew how to do it.

You know that Heri has demonstrated how easy it is to do as he demonstrates here ...
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-janosch.html

     

[G-Unit]

Do you have a theory as to what time they were opened?

[pegasus]

Thanks that will explain why they were down so how did Kate find them in a raised position? Why would you leave them in a raised position if they fall back down. Leave it open for anyone to see and give chase. That's the reason the PJ thought two were involved - originally Matt and Russell. One passing the child though the window to the other but when you look into it it's the most ridiculous plan ever when a safer unseen recessed door from the car park is only metres away. Full of holes.

Two different mechanical situations -

If you raise the shutter using the strap - the strap rotates a shaft and rolls up the shutter slats around the shaft.
The shutter stays up when you let go of the strap.

But if you raise the shutter by pushing up at the bottom of the shutter - the slats get pushed up into the top housing but do not get wound around the shaft, so they fall down out of top housing when you let go. See PB video to see this happening.

[pegasus]

Here is the technique:
1. Raise shutter from outside by only about 30cm using two hands.
2. While holding shutter 30cm up with left hand, slide window open with right hand.
3. While holding shutter 30cm up with left hand, reach in with right hand to operate strap to open shutter fully. The shutter now stays up by itself.
4. Climb in
Obviously if, at the moment of completing step 3, the person gets disturbed by someone, the person will leave the scene quickly and not do step 4.