Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[sadie]

I think that's a very credible theory Sadie.  Once they knew that everyone was seated at the restaurant and thus safely out of the way  - they may have calculated that Matt's 'outside' check meant that no more checks would be happening for a while at 5a.   What they didn't know is that Gerry would decide to make his check at 9.05.    If it happened how you suggest then that could explain the door being more open than Gerry remembered leaving it.

I've also wondered whether the empty apartment next door but one may have been used to hide in prior to the abduction.  It would be an ideal place as it was only a few seconds walk away from 5A - and with a view of the tapas restaurant.

I don't know how thoroughly that empty apartment was searched or if it was examined by the forensic bods.

I do tend to think that once she was abducted - Madeleine was immediately taken away by car.    Whether it was to a destination miles away or somewhere else in PdL - I don't know.



   

Yep that is quite possible as well altho it might be more difficult to watch the front and the back from there.   In support of your theory is the fact that two men, strangers, were seen on the balcony there, were they not?

Personally, I feel pretty sure tha Madeleine was taken up to Porto .... so many sightings that we were not made aware of, seem to indicate that, including later the Carlos Moreira sighting at the roadside snack bar half way up to Porto.   The sightings fit the bill exactly timewise and Geographically.    I have motored it and I know that they are perfectly good.


I think the first leg of the journey, however, started probably in a little boat off the small rocky beach in PdL

This joined up with a larger boat and with Madeleine safely away from search areas around PdL it sailed up to Sines arriving in time for a dawn hand over to the white van which then took Madeleine up to Porto.   

This was the white van which Carlos Moreira saw with a little ?sleeping blonde girl in pyjamas like Madeleines, lying on rags in the back .... and the driver trying to hide her from view .... too late !
This was on the N10, the old pre-motorway main route up to Porto.


This also takes Madeleine up to the close area of the first missing child abduction of Jorge Sepulveda in 1991 [Just two miles away from where the taxi in Processos 809 dropped Madeleine!]  ....


After Jorge Sepulveda there was another child abduction roughly every two years.   Eight abductions in all, culminating in the abduction of Madeleine in 2007.


The man I suspect has close ties to both the Porto region and the PdL Algarve region.

[Benice]

There wasn't any time as Gerry left as soon as Matt returned (great watchers LOL) and there was no open window at 9:30. What key? What car? Only one we know had a key and then he didn't  You can't make up evidence to suit your theory.

It's a THEORY Pf.   Your own theory is full of 'suggested' unproved scenarios IIRC.

The theory is that the perpetrator left ASAP when he was warned that Gerry was on his way back - and he then returned as soon as Gerry left and then opened the window and abducted Madeleine.

At 9.30 Matt was listening rather than looking and didn't go into the room.  He was only there for seconds and if it wasn't breezy at that moment he could have missed an open window.  He had no reason to take any particular notice anyway.

It's not impossible that the abductor had acquired keys.  Hence the open window left  to throw the police off the scent.

A while ago there was a video by someone holding the camcorder in front of him and  running from 5A and along the road  (the one Tannerman was heading down IIRC)  to a car parked down there - and then speeding off out of PdL.   It was all accomplished in about 4 mins, by which time he was on the outskirts of PdL.  ( From memory - but I do remember how quickly the whole operation took).

Sorry I have no idea what happened to that video.

[pathfinder73]

It's a THEORY Pf.   Your own theory is full of 'suggested' unproved scenarios IIRC.

The theory is that the perpetrator left ASAP when he was warned that Gerry was on his way back - and he then returned as soon as Gerry left and then opened the window and abducted Madeleine.

At 9.30 Matt was listening rather than looking and didn't go into the room.  He was only there for seconds and if it wasn't breezy at that moment he could have missed an open window.  He had no reason to take any particular notice anyway.

It's not impossible that the abductor had acquired keys.  Hence the open window left  to throw the police off the scent.

A while ago there was a video by someone holding the camcorder in front of him and  running from 5A and along the road  (the one Tannerman was heading down IIRC)  to a car parked down there - and then speeding off out of PdL.   It was all accomplished in about 4 mins, by which time he was on the outskirts of PdL.  ( From memory - but I do remember how quickly the whole operation took).

Sorry I have no idea what happened to that video.

My theory connects with evidence - timeline, witness statements, moving doors, open window, long checks, alerts. Yours is made up. What getaway car? Smithman was on foot with the lookalike and he is prime suspect. You follow evidence not getaway cars that don't exist. Who is the witness that saw or heard this getaway car screeching away? There were witnesses out on their balconies at this time but nobody heard nothing!

It wasn't breezy at that moment  Matt is the witness not you - no draught and all was silent. He looked into the room and could see both cots because the door was open.

[Benice]

My theory connects with evidence - moving doors, open window, long checks, alerts. Yours is made up. What getaway car? Smithman was on foot with the lookalike and he is prime suspect. You follow evidence not getaway cars that don't exist.

IIRC your theory involved Gerry returning to 5A when all manner of people were milling around - and calmly changing his clothes - with no-one noticing.      Also that he devised a plan which involved Kate raising the alarm after he had left to dispose of the body - even though he did not have the slightest idea how long it would take the police to arrive.  It could have been 5 mins for all he knew.   

The other theory does not rule out Smithman as the perpetrator - who may have just got out of a car.   Who knows.

 

[pathfinder73]

IIRC your theory involved Gerry returning to 5A when all manner of people were milling around - and calmly changing his clothes - with no-one noticing.      Also that he devised a plan which involved Kate raising the alarm after he had left to dispose of the body - even though he did not have the slightest idea how long it would take the police to arrive.  It could have been 5 mins for all he knew.   

The other theory does not rule out Smithman as the perpetrator - who may have just got out of a car.   Who knows.

Moyes and Balu/Berry were out on their balconies. They didn't hear any cars screeching away or hear a child shouting for help. Fenn heard nothing above. You follow evidence and no evidence exists of Madeleine being heard that night so maybe she was dead and couldn't make a sound.

[Alfred R Jones]

Moyes and Balu/Berry were out on their balconies. They didn't hear any cars screeching away or hear a child shouting for help. Fenn heard nothing above. You follow evidence and no evidence exists of Madeleine being heard that night so maybe she was dead and couldn't make a sound.

Do all getaway cars screech?  Do all sedated children shout for help?

[G-Unit]

Do all getaway cars screech?  Do all sedated children shout for help?

Was there a getaway car? Was Madeleine sedated? So many questions and so few answers.................

[Alfred R Jones]

Was there a getaway car? Was Madeleine sedated? So many questions and so few answers.................

It was a hypothesis, and as such one can hypothesise that the car did not screech and the child did not shout, both perfectly plausible suggestions, don't you agree?

[pathfinder73]

Do all getaway cars screech?  Do all sedated children shout for help?

Make your case. What car? What was used to sedate and at what time?

The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

Let's see: the media forwarded the hypothesis that the children could have been sedated to be kept asleep and allow some rest to the parents.

Distant in time Kate's father, the grandfather of the minor, Brian Healy, admits to the press that Kate could have administered some medication to the little girl, Calpol, to help the child (children'') to sleep, contrary to what his daughter Kate had stated.

Kate, through the PJ inspector that acted as 'liaison' with the family [NOTE: that is Ricardo Paiva], asked why samples weren't taken from the twins in order to test that hypothesis. She knew well enough at that time, more than 3 months later, that such exam would be inviable.

She went further and said that we ' the investigation ' should verify that the kidnapper had sedated Madeleine, to accomplish the action and he had also sedated the twins 'to consummate the act' however she didn't say that at the right moment.

And we know that the sedatives have timings to act and timings to be expelled, that varies between six and 200 hours.

The medical knowledge of the McCann is enough to know such, even if their professional activity never passed by performing toxicology exams.

When the media informed that blood had been detected 'in the car and in the apartment', Kate and members of her family come to the public with the simple excuse that it had been someone, with access to the apartment, to place the evidence.

Now they even admit it was a member of the criminal investigation to place the 'false' evidence (blood and cadaver odour in the apartment and in the car).

Kate in an attempt to justify the blood went even further, informing that on that occasion, Madeleine had, sometimes, nasal haemorrhages.

On the day that a house search was performed, in the residence of the McCann, on the master bedroom, written papers were found as well as a bible, written in English. It was opened on the pages whose copies are annexed here, with the translation.

KIDNAPPING is a situation with which, unfortunately, in the United Kingdom, most of the public opinion is used to, due to the rate of this kind of crime.

Intelligent people should have a minimum of knowledge that the publicity is harming to the investigation of a kidnapping crime and especially to the safety of the kidnapped person.

They should have waited for the decisions from the police authorities, there is strong evidence that the crime scene was altered, some furniture was moved around.

Those changes are indications of simulation.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm

[jassi]

Certainly a car that wasn't there wouldn't screech, that's for sure.

[Alfred R Jones]

Make your case. What car? What was used to sedate and at what time?

The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

Let's see: the media forwarded the hypothesis that the children could have been sedated to be kept asleep and allow some rest to the parents.

Distant in time Kate's father, the grandfather of the minor, Brian Healy, admits to the press that Kate could have administered some medication to the little girl, Calpol, to help the child (children'') to sleep, contrary to what his daughter Kate had stated.

Kate, through the PJ inspector that acted as 'liaison' with the family [NOTE: that is Ricardo Paiva], asked why samples weren't taken from the twins in order to test that hypothesis. She knew well enough at that time, more than 3 months later, that such exam would be inviable.

She went further and said that we ' the investigation ' should verify that the kidnapper had sedated Madeleine, to accomplish the action and he had also sedated the twins 'to consummate the act' however she didn't say that at the right moment.

And we know that the sedatives have timings to act and timings to be expelled, that varies between six and 200 hours.

The medical knowledge of the McCann is enough to know such, even if their professional activity never passed by performing toxicology exams.

When the media informed that blood had been detected 'in the car and in the apartment', Kate and members of her family come to the public with the simple excuse that it had been someone, with access to the apartment, to place the evidence.

Now they even admit it was a member of the criminal investigation to place the 'false' evidence (blood and cadaver odour in the apartment and in the car).

Kate in an attempt to justify the blood went even further, informing that on that occasion, Madeleine had, sometimes, nasal haemorrhages.

On the day that a house search was performed, in the residence of the McCann, on the master bedroom, written papers were found as well as a bible, written in English. It was opened on the pages whose copies are annexed here, with the translation.

KIDNAPPING is a situation with which, unfortunately, in the United Kingdom, most of the public opinion is used to, due to the rate of this kind of crime.

Intelligent people should have a minimum of knowledge that the publicity is harming to the investigation of a kidnapping crime and especially to the safety of the kidnapped person.

They should have waited for the decisions from the police authorities, there is strong evidence that the crime scene was altered, some furniture was moved around.

Those changes are indications of simulation.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm

What car?  I have no idea - it was a hypothesis.  There were cars in PdL in 2007 I assume?  Is it not possible that a kidnapper may have had access to a car and drove it away?  If not why not?  What sedative?  I've no idea. Is it possible to sedate or to render a child unconscious that you are kidnapping, in theory? If not, why not?   

[Alfred R Jones]

Certainly a car that wasn't there wouldn't screech, that's for sure.

Were there no cars driven through PdL that night then?

[pathfinder73]

What car?  I have no idea - it was a hypothesis.  There were cars in PdL in 2007 I assume?  Is it not possible that a kidnapper may have had access to a car and drove it away?  If not why not?  What sedative?  I've no idea. Is it possible to sedate or to render a child unconscious that you are kidnapping, in theory? If not, why not?

In other words you have no case. You need a car for a start. I've got my man and he was on foot heading towards the sea.

[sadie]

My theory connects with evidence - timeline, witness statements, moving doors, open window, long checks, alerts. Yours is made up. What getaway car? Smithman was on foot with the lookalike and he is prime suspect. You follow evidence not getaway cars that don't exist. Who is the witness that saw or heard this getaway car screeching away? There were witnesses out on their balconies at this time but nobody heard nothing!

It wasn't breezy at that moment  Matt is the witness not you - no draught and all was silent. He looked into the room and could see both cots because the door was open.

Storms build up ... and there is often a lull before a storm.   It could have been quite calm at the time of Matts visit at about 9.30 pm yet very gusty by 10pm when Kate checked.

Gusts are unpredictable; they dont always even come from the same direction.


None of us KNOW what happened.  You dont and neither do I for sure.

[Alfred R Jones]

In other words you have no case. You need a car for a start. I've got my man and he was on foot heading towards the sea.

I don't think you quite understand.  It is a hypothesis, or a theory if you prefer.  It's what the police do when faced with an absence of hard facts, to help them try to focus on a line of enquiry.  It's what Amaral did when he started to build a case against the McCanns.  He hypothesised that Madeleine died in an accident and her parents covered it up.  He started to do this well before the dogs or Smithman.  Do you understand now?