Author Topic: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?  (Read 414052 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1635 on: September 10, 2015, 01:46:43 AM »
It does.
But so does your theory.
You seem to claim that someone decided to stage an open window and shutter, not by the obvious and easy method of opening them, which would have taken about 3 seconds, but instead by the cunning plan of leaving them closed.

Gerry said he lowered and raised them outside not put them back down again? They were never seen raised. Dianne saw them down so it contradicts Gerry's statement.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1636 on: September 10, 2015, 02:22:19 AM »
Gerry said he lowered and raised them outside not put them back down again? They were never seen raised. Dianne saw them down so it contradicts Gerry's statement.
GM closes the shutter from inside using the strap. Then he goes outside and partly raises the shutter by hand. The strap remains in the fully closed position BTW. When he stops pushing up, the shutter falls back down to closed position. This is simply a fact of how the shutter design works. If you don't believe me watch the PB video. So when he has finished, the shutter is in the closed position.




Offline pathfinder73

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1637 on: September 10, 2015, 10:13:00 AM »
GM closes the shutter from inside using the strap. Then he goes outside and partly raises the shutter by hand. The strap remains in the fully closed position BTW. When he stops pushing up, the shutter falls back down to closed position. This is simply a fact of how the shutter design works. If you don't believe me watch the PB video. So when he has finished, the shutter is in the closed position.

And you don't mention that it fell straight back down again? That's another point - they can't raise all the way up by lifting outside. They go up to a certain height then get jammed and fall straight back down.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 10:15:51 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1638 on: September 10, 2015, 02:59:06 PM »
And you don't mention that it fell straight back down again? That's another point - they can't raise all the way up by lifting outside. They go up to a certain height then get jammed and fall straight back down.

There is a technique demonstrated by Heri for raising a shutter from outside ... a skill with which burglars were no doubt well acquainted.

                             
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 03:02:23 PM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1639 on: September 10, 2015, 03:09:43 PM »
From that video, I am surmising that Madeleine was assumed to have been on or very close to the bed in front of the window, otherwise he could not have  reached her
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1640 on: September 10, 2015, 04:09:39 PM »
From that video, I am surmising that Madeleine was assumed to have been on or very close to the bed in front of the window, otherwise he could not have  reached her

I believe Heri is of the opinion that Madeleine could have sleepily approached having been wakened by the noise and was easily lifted through.

As can be seen the hypothesis is demonstrably possible ... both for time and ease of lifting through the window.  No trace of an intruder left in the apartment for the simple reason s/he didn't enter.
No fibres from Madeleine's clothing because she was light enough to be lifted with ease.

What Heri says is well worth a read, he is open to challenge as nothing is carved in tablets of stone ... but what he has to say is all thoroughly researched and considered.

http://espacioexterior.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-janosch.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1641 on: September 10, 2015, 05:15:26 PM »
Shutters don't fully raise from the outside and fall straight back down.


Why wasn't there any evidence of fingerprints, glove marks or marks found on the outside of the window?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 05:23:36 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1642 on: September 10, 2015, 05:32:12 PM »
Shutters don't fully raise from the outside and fall straight back down.


Why wasn't there any evidence of fingerprints, glove marks or marks found on the outside of the window. Did the intruder say the magic words "Open Sesame"?

It is only very recently that there was a general denial that it was possible to raise a closed shutter from outside.  It is demonstrably possible and has at last had to be accepted as such.
So even if  "Open Sesame" were to work ... it isn't actually required.

The shutters only fall back down if the window is unlocked thus disabling being able to slide the window open, reach inside and raise the shutter using the mechanism ... a one person endeavour all as ably demonstrated by Heri.

Going back to Heri's example suggests why the window remained open and the shutter raised. 

Easy for a single person to effect the opening. 

Not so easy to release the shutter to lower it using the mechanism, slide the window closed while supporting the shutter right down into place ... while carrying the burden of a child.

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1643 on: September 10, 2015, 05:44:32 PM »
It is only very recently that there was a general denial that it was possible to raise a closed shutter from outside.  It is demonstrably possible and has at last had to be accepted as such.
So even if  "Open Sesame" were to work ... it isn't actually required.

The shutters only fall back down if the window is unlocked thus disabling being able to slide the window open, reach inside and raise the shutter using the mechanism ... a one person endeavour all as ably demonstrated by Heri.

Going back to Heri's example suggests why the window remained open and the shutter raised. 

Easy for a single person to effect the opening. 

Not so easy to release the shutter to lower it using the mechanism, slide the window closed while supporting the shutter right down into place ... while carrying the burden of a child.

There is no evidence of the window being opened from the outside. Fingerprints were only found on the inside. The shutters were contaminated and therefore the crime scene was compromised. If you opened the window from the inside you wouldn't have to touch the shutters to raise them so there would be no marks on them.  But with marks found on the outside of the shutters it suggests somebody tried to enter.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 05:51:11 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline jassi

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1644 on: September 10, 2015, 07:12:19 PM »
There is no evidence of the window being opened from the outside. Fingerprints were only found on the inside. The shutters were contaminated and therefore the crime scene was compromised. If you opened the window from the inside you wouldn't have to touch the shutters to raise them so there would be no marks on them.  But with marks found on the outside of the shutters it suggests somebody tried to enter.

Indeed, Being possible doesn't mean that something actually happened.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1645 on: September 10, 2015, 07:19:52 PM »
Indeed, Being possible doesn't mean that something actually happened.
whereas being impossible means it definitely didn't, and that's what we were being told for years by "shutter experts" on forums.  It proves that you should always take the views of self-proclaimed experts on internet with a pinch of salt. 

Offline jassi

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1646 on: September 10, 2015, 07:20:42 PM »
whereas being impossible means it definitely didn't, and that's what we were being told for years by "shutter experts" on forums.  It proves that you should always take the views of self-proclaimed experts on internet with a pinch of salt.

Oh I do, particularly the one on here   @)(++(*
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1647 on: September 10, 2015, 07:24:25 PM »
Indeed, Being possible doesn't mean that something actually happened.

I would imagine that any investigator worth his or her salt would give consideration to the possibilities suggested by the locale.  Of particular interest would be the break ins which had occurred in the same apartment block and those nearby.  If there had been instances of assaults on British children in their beds ... a particular resonance might have been signalled when it was ascertained the child missing from her bed was British.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1648 on: September 10, 2015, 07:25:01 PM »
Oh I do, particularly the one on here   @)(++(*
One?  There's more than one isn't there?!

Offline jassi

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #1649 on: September 10, 2015, 07:26:02 PM »
One?  There's more than one isn't there?!


Yes, sorry about that, I meant to add an s - ones
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future