Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[Brietta]

And what would be the intelligent way to do that?
Stand where you say? Or go get help from the next room?

She would have been groggy and sleepy ... and curious about the noise bearing in mind she probably hadn't heard the blind being raised before.  Why would she have thought there was danger and she was in need of assistance?  There is a probability she approached the window.

If she had run as you think she may ... why did she vanish?

[mercury]

IMO walking towards the window is instinctively impossible (and disproven anyway by the widened door position).

Why is there so much objection - from BOTH sides - to the elementary deduction that the child went on own feet from that bedroom to another room? It is not like a revolutionary never heard before strange behaviour is it? BTW there's an easy way to check the theory - because if it is what happened, we would expect to find in statements that the bedroom door became wider open.

yes, we have THREE statements saying the bedroom door was wide open when it shouldn't have been

GM, MO, and KM

Which one are you referring to as pointing to an exit out of the bedroom due to being disturbed by someone at the window?

If a burglar had opened the shutters and window before GM entered, wouldn't he have noticed the open shutter blowing curtains and drop in temperature?  After he shut the door back to near closed, MO found it wide open again at 9.30pm and too didn't notice anything from the window.

Maybe the child woke up to go to the loo in the night and that might explain the first open door, so that would eliminate Tannerman as some abductor but you still have no open shutters and window at 9.30pm


KM's??

[pegasus]

yes, we have THREE statements saying the bedroom door was wide open when it shouldn't have been

GM, MO, and KM

Which one are you referring to as pointing to an exit out of the bedroom due to being disturbed by someone at the window?

If a burglar had opened the shutters and window before GM entered, wouldn't he have noticed the open shutter blowing curtains and drop in temperature?  After he shut the door back to near closed, MO found it wide open again at 9.30pm and too didn't notice anything from the window.

Maybe the child woke up to go to the loo in the night and that might explain the first open door, so that would eliminate Tannerman as some abductor but you still have no open shutters and window at 9.30pm


KM's??

Assuming all 3 witness accounts are accurate, the bedroom door was opened by child twice (not three times) IMO.
Once before GM check (child opens door and leaves bedroom then returns to bedroom, probably a simple toilet trip)
Once after GM check but before MO check (child opens door and leaves bedroom but does not return to that bedroom).

[pathfinder73]

She would have been groggy and sleepy ... and curious about the noise bearing in mind she probably hadn't heard the blind being raised before.  Why would she have thought there was danger and she was in need of assistance?  There is a probability she approached the window.

If she had run as you think she may ... why did she vanish?

Were the curtains open as in early statements or closed and whooshed as in later ones? Was Madeleine on top of the covers because it was hot like Gerry said or under them because it was cold like Kate said?

[pathfinder73]

Assuming all 3 witness accounts are accurate, the bedroom door was opened by child twice (not three times) IMO.
Once before GM check (child opens door and leaves bedroom then returns to bedroom, probably a simple toilet trip)
Once after GM check but before MO check (child opens door and leaves bedroom but does not return to that bedroom).

  The window was closed at 9:30 so why would she be in another room? Keep going round in circles chasing shadows and moving doors for the rest of your life. There was one position that door was definitely in and Emma Knight saw it in that same position when she arrived at 5A.

I went to the McCann's apartment, entered by the patio doors and introduced myself to Kate and Mrs Payne. I entered the apartment living room and Kate and Mrs Payne stayed in the main bedroom, from where I could hear them both crying.

The twins were still asleep in the children's bedroom and the door was half open.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

He recalls that the bedroom door was half open. (Matt Oldfield)

[pegasus]

The window was closed at 9:30 so why would she be in another room? Keep going round in circles chasing shadows and moving doors for the rest of your life. There was one position that door was definitely in and Emma Knight saw it in that same position when she arrived at 5A.

I went to the McCann's apartment, entered by the patio doors and introduced myself to Kate and Mrs Payne. I entered the apartment living room and Kate and Mrs Payne stayed in the main bedroom, from where I could hear them both crying.

The twins were still asleep in the children's bedroom and the door was half open.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

He recalls that the bedroom door was half open. (Matt Oldfield)

The child bedroom door position when EK arrived is completely irrelevant IMO.

[faithlilly]

Assuming all 3 witness accounts are accurate, the bedroom door was opened by child twice (not three times) IMO.
Once before GM check (child opens door and leaves bedroom then returns to bedroom, probably a simple toilet trip)
Once after GM check but before MO check (child opens door and leaves bedroom but does not return to that bedroom).

Do you really believe that if Madeleine had gotten up to go to the toilet she would not have looked for her parents and, finding then gone and herself alone, would have meekly gone back to bed ?

[pegasus]

8.30 When adults depart the door is in slightly ajar position.
?.?? Child pulls door open, goes bathroom, returns to bedroom, leaving door open.
9.05 G sees door open, sees child in bed, closes door to slightly ajar position.
?.?? Child pulls door open, leaves bedroom, leaves door open, does not return to that bedroom
9.30 M sees door open, does not see child, does not close door
10.00 K sees door open, does not see child

Between 9.30 and 10.00 nothing happens, door does not move, no-one passes through door. K sees door in same position as M saw it. All hypothetical and IMO.

[pegasus]

Do you really believe that if Madeleine had gotten up to go to the toilet she would not have looked for her parents and, finding then gone and herself alone, would have meekly gone back to bed ?

Yes because this was 5th such date and an accustomed situation IMO.

[pegasus]

Here IMO is a hypothesis which explains the window the shutter the bedroom door and why child left that bedroom.
After 9.05 check but before 9.30 check a petty thief thinks everyone is out and opens window and shutter from outside.

[Brietta]

Yes because this was 5th such date and an accustomed situation IMO.

From the star chart at home we know that Madeleine had been weaned off getting up during the night to go into her parents bedroom.

From her question to Kate it is possible the conditioning had been very effective.

She asked why her mother hadn't come ... she did not ask "Where were you?"

[Alice Purjorick]

From the star chart at home we know that Madeleine had been weaned off getting up during the night to go into her parents bedroom.

From her question to Kate it is possible the conditioning had been very effective.

She asked why her mother hadn't come ... she did not ask "Where were you?"

We don't know any of that with any degree of certainty. Hearsay at best.

[pegasus]

From the star chart at home we know that Madeleine had been weaned off getting up during the night to go into her parents bedroom.

From her question to Kate it is possible the conditioning had been very effective.

She asked why her mother hadn't come ... she did not ask "Where were you?"

OK let's assume you are right, that the star chart and other things prove that in normal circumstances the child definitely would never get out of bed and go into the parents' room.

But now look at the physical evidence honest witness KM discovered at 10pm in the child bedroom and you will notice that this was not normal circumstances, and it is obvious that something had happened which was highly unusual and was visible and audible from the bed, which would mean your "never wake up and go to parents' room" assumption, even if it is normally correct, would definitely and instantly cease to apply.

[G-Unit]

We don't know any of that with any degree of certainty. Hearsay at best.

We know that she left her bed and slept with her parents one night at least because they told us so.

[faithlilly]

We know that she left her bed and slept with her parents one night at least because they told us so.

Indeed G-Unit ! I can't imagine a child of three getting up during the night and not wanting to know where her parents were.