Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[pathfinder73]

I'm not going to look for it PF ... but when postulating your theory and the permutations and significance of the door positions you ridiculed just that.  Seems I have a clearer memory of your postings than you do.

Misty has been clever enough to spot what everyone else missed about the relevance of Madeleine being seen on top of the covers rather than under them ... I think you see it is a consideration too.

We were working from another theory which was not mine. My theory is crystal clear on the matter. I've got my own thread on it. Dear dear dear.

[Brietta]

We were working from another theory which was not mine. My theory is crystal clear on the matter. I've got my own thread on it. Dear dear dear.

That is the thing about theories.  They are allowed to evolve and change as new and more probable facts are ascertained and evaluated.

[pegasus]

So you're assuming the child covered themselves after 8 30 even though KM already said she thought they were covered ?

IMO the child was probably under the bedcovers at 7.15pm Mercury.

Here is a logic problem a child of 3 could solve.
Question: A child is in bed. Later the child is not in bed. What happened?
Answer: The child got out of bed.

Why people feel the need to make ridiculous theories about chloroform or abductors or hypnotists or no-one being on the bed to start with is a mystery.

[misty]

IMO the child was probably under the bedcovers at 7.15pm Mercury.

Here is a logic problem a child of 3 could solve.
Question: A child is in bed. Later the child is not in bed. What happened?
Answer: The child got out of bed.

Why people feel the need to make ridiculous theories about chloroform or abductors or hypnotists or no-one being in the bed to start with is a mystery.

When the child got out of bed and moved the door for the first time, why didn't she notice her mum & dad were missing?
When she returned to bed, why didn't she get back under the covers?

[Brietta]

IMO the child was probably under the bedcovers at 7.15pm Mercury.

Here is a logic problem a child of 3 could solve.
Question: A child is in bed. Later the child is not in bed. What happened?
Answer: The child got out of bed.

Why people feel the need to make ridiculous theories about chloroform or abductors or hypnotists or no-one being in the bed to start with is a mystery.

I think the major flaw in your theory is that there was no sign of the child after the last definite sighting of her by her father.

[mercury]

IMO the child was probably under the bedcovers at 7.15pm Mercury.

Here is a logic problem a child of 3 could solve.
Question: A child is in bed. Later the child is not in bed. What happened?
Answer: The child got out of bed.

Why people feel the need to make ridiculous theories about chloroform or abductors or hypnotists or no-one being in the bed to start with is a mystery.

only going by their statements ref bed covers

tHere is no mystery, when the McCann supporters resort to a hypnotist at large (preferably with a laundry bag,and holding keys, and looking like Hewlett 30 years ago eg or any other permutations) that "feasibly" went into 5a the night before to hypnotise the child and returned the next night to give a command "come with me" and also drugged them for hours and hours that it was "feasible" again the child was left somewhere that night  and removed the next day, you know they have lost the plot at the very least

now I know you thnk MM woke and wondered, but you won't tell what next...but you may not have a strong theory in that so that's ok

[mercury]

When the child got out of bed and moved the door for the first time, why didn't she notice her mum & dad were missing?
When she returned to bed, why didn't she get back under the covers?

She wasn't under the covers according to Gerry at any time

[pegasus]

When the child got out of bed and moved the door for the first time, why didn't she notice her mum & dad were missing?
When she returned to bed, why didn't she get back under the covers?

I may reexamine the hypothesis (that the door moved a first time) later.
But in that scenario, the answer to your first question would be: This situation would have become accustomed in  the previous 4 evenings.

[misty]

She wasn't under the covers according to Gerry at any time

Take a look at the crime scene photo of Madeleine's bed. The bedcovers are folded back on one side. The pillow is indented in the middle. If a child is left on top of the bed to go to sleep, the covers would not have been folded back.
I don't know about anyone else's children, but mine were always under the covers to sleep, even during heatwaves - and it certainly wasn't heatwave weather in PdL that week.

[mercury]

Take a look at the crime scene photo of Madeleine's bed. The bedcovers are folded back on one side. The pillow is indented in the middle. If a child is left on top of the bed to go to sleep, the covers would not have been folded back.
I don't know about anyone else's children, but mine were always under the covers to sleep, even during heatwaves - and it certainly wasn't heatwave weather in PdL that week.

That proves nothing..if anything though, you'd have to explain how an abductor  removed a child from under the covers and left them so bloody neat and only just turned over..,,..take it up with Gerry, his words not mine

[Alice Purjorick]

Take a look at the crime scene photo of Madeleine's bed. The bedcovers are folded back on one side. The pillow is indented in the middle. If a child is left on top of the bed to go to sleep, the covers would not have been folded back.
I don't know about anyone else's children, but mine were always under the covers to sleep, even during heatwaves - and it certainly wasn't heatwave weather in PdL that week.

From the pic:
Plenty of room for the abductor to hide in there. (reference a theory being put about earlier)
My perception is he would be as unobtrusive as an alligator in a bath.

[pegasus]

Take a look at the crime scene photo of Madeleine's bed. The bedcovers are folded back on one side. The pillow is indented in the middle. If a child is left on top of the bed to go to sleep, the covers would not have been folded back.
I don't know about anyone else's children, but mine were always under the covers to sleep, even during heatwaves - and it certainly wasn't heatwave weather in PdL that week.

I agree with you Misty, the child was under the covers. From that , two deductions....

1. If a person lifted the child from the bed, that person would first pull down the covers, because otherwise it is not possible to lift. So the PJ photo would show covers pulled down much more - by almost a child length.
Therefore no-one lifted the child from the bed.

2. If a person staged the covers to look like the child had been lifted from the bed, that person would have pulled the covers down much more - by almost a child length - to make it look like someone had lifted the child.
Therefore no-one staged the covers to look like someone lifted the child from the bed.

The answer is the child got out of bed herself IMO. There was no abductor, and there was no staging in this room, the scene was exactly as the witness truthfully described at about 10pm
 

[misty]

I may reexamine the hypothesis (that the door moved a first time) later.
But in that scenario, the answer to your first question would be: This situation would have become accustomed in  the previous 4 evenings.

There was no indication that Madeleine had got out of bed whilst the parents were dining during the previous 4 evenings.

[mercury]

yes Alice, the abductor hid behind the see through cots and Gerry didn't notice him though he noticed the windows and shutter and curtains were shut...and didn't smell him either if he was the smelly fat stomached Arsenal shirt wearer that plagued the algarve or smelt any chloroform or get knocked out by it himself.....AND didn't hear any derren brown hypnotic commands when in there

[misty]

I agree with you Misty, the child was under the covers. From that , two deductions....

1. If a person lifted the child from the bed, that person would first pull down the covers, because otherwise it is not possible to lift. So the PJ photo would show covers pulled down much more - by almost a child length.
Therefore no-one lifted the child from the bed.

2. If a person staged the covers to look like the child had been lifted from the bed, that person would have pulled the covers down much more - by almost a child length - to make it look like someone had lifted the child.
Therefore no-one staged the covers to look like someone lifted the child from the bed.

The answer is the child got out of bed herself IMO.
 

.........or someone staged it to appear the child got out of the bed herself.
Do you believe GM saw Madeleine on top of the covers - that is the crucial question - and also explains 2 door moves if the abductor was interrupted.