Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[pegasus]

Do you mean the chloroform or Midazolam?

Have just read the story of the "garden gnome" in the wardrobe, aka someone she'd fostered. Did our police really miss his presence?? He's out of jail already by the looks of it.
I'm surprised the lady hadn't installed CCTV before.  Yelverton is fairly isolated place, surrounded by moorland and not too far from Dartmoor prison.

The midaz sometimes used for sleep problems.
Yes police in that other case failed to find an intruder hiding in the wardrobe.

[misty]

The midaz sometimes used for sleep problems.
Yes police in that other case failed to find an intruder hiding in the wardrobe.

It's not something you'd routinely give to a child. I've had the IV form several times and it certainly makes you sleep! And that's where I'm off to now. Night, Pegasus.

[pegasus]

... Have just read the story of the "garden gnome" in the wardrobe ...

For an intruder to hide in the apartment during the 9.05 check the best places are the adult bedroom wardrobe or the child bedroom wardrobe, and less good is behind the child bedroom door.
But really that theory does not fit the facts.
It does nothing to explain the open window and shutter.

[mercury]

For an intruder to hide in the apartment during the 9.05 check the best places are the adult bedroom wardrobe or the child bedroom wardrobe, and less good is behind the child bedroom door.
But really that theory does not fit the facts.
It does nothing to explain the open window and shutter.

Brietta thinks the abductor hid behind the see through cots lol and that the window was open but Gerald said in his statement  Windows shutters curtains all closed at 9 15

[pegasus]

Brietta thinks the abductor hid behind the see through cots lol and that the window was open but Gerald said in his statement  Windows shutters curtains all closed at 9 15

At the end of the 9.05pm check, the bedroom door was left almost closed.
At the start of the 9.30pm check, the bedroom door was much wider open.
Therefore between those two checks, the only mobile person in the apartment opened that door to go through it.

[G-Unit]

Most criminals like to make life as difficult as possible for the police to solve a crime.
Nitrous Oxide acts in 20 seconds & the kit is small & easily carried. You need ventilation, though.

It can't be administered directly from the canister. Users put it into a balloon or a whipped cream container and inhale from that. The effects last for............a few seconds.

[slartibartfast]

Fair enough ... there are quite a few ... but here is one for starters ...
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=18.0




Sorry for some reason the link doesn't appear to be linking as it should ... but the conversation went as follows ...

42  Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. / Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« on: September 17, 2015, 08:11:58 AM »

Quote from: Brietta on September 16, 2015, 11:50:35 PM
She would have been groggy and sleepy ... and curious about the noise bearing in mind she probably hadn't heard the blind being raised before.  Why would she have thought there was danger and she was in need of assistance?  There is a probability she approached the window.

If she had run as you think she may ... why did she vanish?

To which Pathfinder replied

Were the curtains open as in early statements or closed and whooshed as in later ones? Was Madeleine on top of the covers because it was hot like Gerry said or under them because it was cold like Kate said?

Which is as I claimed in my original post ...

"I recall you in particular posting in a derisory way about the door positioning and Madeleine being at first under the blankets on a night considered cool by her mother then later on top of the bedding when seen by her father."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1868.msg274093#msg274093

PF posed some questions and not in a derisory way.

[pathfinder73]

Let's clear this up once and for all.

He says that with respect to Madeleine she was in the same position in which he had left her at the beginning of the night. Madeleine was lying down on her left side, she was completely uncovered, that is, lying on top of the covers.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

They also kissed Madeleine, who was lying down. She was under the covers, she thinks because she was a bit cold.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

[Brietta]

Brietta thinks the abductor hid behind the see through cots lol and that the window was open but Gerald said in his statement  Windows shutters curtains all closed at 9 15

Be so kind as to look at the crime scene photographs as I have prior to making my post.  Please note that in the fawn coloured cot which is less visible from the bedroom door opaque material has been used.

The blue coloured cot is indeed "see through" ... the fawn coloured cot most definitely is not and I am surprised with your familiarity of the case you are ignorant of that fact.

You will note that it would be perfectly possible for an intruder to crouch down in a darkened room between the window and the cot and remain hidden from view by the opaque panel.


 

[Brietta]

PF posed some questions and not in a derisory way.

That is a matter of opinion ...

However the poster denied that any such mention had been made at all ... not that it was as my recall claimed "derisory" ... that is an argument you appear to be championing.

There has been much made of this trivia but in my defence of the term "derisory" perhaps you would be able to find a post made by this poster mentioning something positive about the Drs McCann ... collectively or individually.
Off the top of my head I can't think of one.

[Brietta]

Let's clear this up once and for all.

He says that with respect to Madeleine she was in the same position in which he had left her at the beginning of the night. Madeleine was lying down on her left side, she was completely uncovered, that is, lying on top of the covers.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

They also kissed Madeleine, who was lying down. She was under the covers, she thinks because she was a bit cold.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

When Madeleine McCann was tucked up in bed ... she was under the covers.

When her father saw her on his check she was still fast asleep but she was lying on top of the covers. 
There is evidence the door had been moved.

The discussion was not about what we know ... the discussion was about the reason for open window ... and the significance of Madeleine being on top of the covers which could have been due to an intruder lifting her ~ being disturbed ~ and putting her there.

All perfectly reasonable and possible and not really a cause for contention.

[G-Unit]

Be so kind as to look at the crime scene photographs as I have prior to making my post.  Please note that in the fawn coloured cot which is less visible from the bedroom door opaque material has been used.

The blue coloured cot is indeed "see through" ... the fawn coloured cot most definitely is not and I am surprised with your familiarity of the case you are ignorant of that fact.

You will note that it would be perfectly possible for an intruder to crouch down in a darkened room between the window and the cot and remain hidden from view by the opaque panel.


 

Matthew seemed to think both cots had fabric ends. Even so, he managed to see the twins breathing. What a shame Gerald didn't have his x-ray vision. Matthew also saw a bookcase, of course, which I can't find in any of the pictures I've seen. He also saw two windows in the bedroom and the wrong colour curtains. A very unreliable witness imo.

the cots had sort of got that fabric end and sort of a mesh side, so you could see the sides and you could see them, erm, see them breathing

sofas here and you've got a bookcase here

they're similar curtains to the ones you've got in there, and you just get an impression of just like green and yellow, but they were closed, they weren't sort of blowing about,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

He states that the bedroom has two windows. The twins occupy two cots placed in the middle of the room
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD.htm

window curtains - green in colour
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

[slartibartfast]

That is a matter of opinion ...

However the poster denied that any such mention had been made at all ... not that it was as my recall claimed "derisory" ... that is an argument you appear to be championing.

There has been much made of this trivia but in my defence of the term "derisory" perhaps you would be able to find a post made by this poster mentioning something positive about the Drs McCann ... collectively or individually.
Off the top of my head I can't think of one.

It is not beholden on any poster to say nice things about everyone involved in this case

[pathfinder73]

When Madeleine McCann was tucked up in bed ... she was under the covers.

When her father saw her on his check she was still fast asleep but she was lying on top of the covers. 
There is evidence the door had been moved.

The discussion was not about what we know ... the discussion was about the reason for open window ... and the significance of Madeleine being on top of the covers which could have been due to an intruder lifting her ~ being disturbed ~ and putting her there.

All perfectly reasonable and possible and not really a cause for contention.

This was about the check:

He says that with respect to Madeleine she was in the same position in which he had left her at the beginning of the night. (GM)

Same position on top of covers as beginning of the night.

With respect to the bed where his daughter was on the night she disappeared he says that she slept uncovered, as usual when she was hot, with the bedclothes folded down. (GM)

[pegasus]

Be so kind as to look at the crime scene photographs as I have prior to making my post.  Please note that in the fawn coloured cot which is less visible from the bedroom door opaque material has been used.

The blue coloured cot is indeed "see through" ... the fawn coloured cot most definitely is not and I am surprised with your familiarity of the case you are ignorant of that fact.

You will note that it would be perfectly possible for an intruder to crouch down in a darkened room between the window and the cot and remain hidden from view by the opaque panel.

Yes but in your photo look at the bedcovers. It is quite obvious that the child was under the covers. If the child had not been under the covers, the covers would not be pulled down as we see in the photo.

And it's obvious that the child sat up and got out of bed by herself - because the slightly down position of the covers in the photo says that. If someone had lifted her out of bed the covers would be much further down.

So there is no need at all to imagine the presence of any intruder in this room.