Author Topic: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?  (Read 414056 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2085 on: September 25, 2015, 12:16:28 AM »
It is my opinion that the intruder used a key to open the wooden front door. 

However had the intruder entered via the sliding door it was for one reason and one reason only ... therefore speed was of the essence ... no time to faff around checking doors.
Perhaps it was even coordinated with an accomplice raising the outside shutter and opening the window as the lounge was crossed, the child lifted and passed through?

We simply do not know.  The only hard and fast thing that we do know is that when her mother checked on her at 10.00pm Madeleine McCann was missing from her bed.
We simply do not know... 
If someone entered through the front door he would exit through the front door IMO.
If someone entered through the sliding door it would take him only 3 seconds to check the front door isn't deadlocked and he would exit through the front door IMO.
...The only hard and fast thing that we do know is that when her mother checked on her at 10.00pm Madeleine McCann was missing from her bed.
Agreed and I would add a little more information by saying "was missing from her bedroom" because the witness as well as looking on the bed also looked in the wardrobes of the child bedroom.


Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2086 on: September 25, 2015, 12:20:15 AM »
You believe he was interrupted & left, empty-handed. Why no other burglaries/attempted burglaries - the night was young?

Never thought of that.

We have reports of people being out for the evening some of whom must have been getting ready to leave which is a traditional time for burglars to strike in a holiday resort.  No reported or attempted burglaries either earlier in the evening or later.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2087 on: September 25, 2015, 12:30:28 AM »
No Pegasus, my point was that most shutters are normally more heavy duty, so people made their posts/comments, if they didn't consult architects digest for the algarve at the time is neither here nor there lol
If people based their views on heavier duty shutters than fitted at blocks 5 and 4, or on shutters that lock, or on electric shutters like Dispatches, or on windows that autolock, then yes it's understandable they might conclude that opening from outside was impossible for the designs they examined.

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2088 on: September 25, 2015, 12:39:40 AM »
You believe he was interrupted & left, empty-handed. Why no other burglaries/attempted burglaries - the night was young?
Yes interrupted and left empty handed before entering IMO. From the nature of the interruption it would be obvious to him that adults might appear very soon therefore there is absolutely no possibility he would stay around to try other apartments.

Online misty

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2089 on: September 25, 2015, 01:04:05 AM »
Yes interrupted and left empty handed before entering IMO. From the nature of the interruption it would be obvious to him that adults might appear very soon therefore there is absolutely no possibility he would stay around to try other apartments.


Scuttling away from Block 5 is one thing. There were plenty of other blocks/houses in the vicinity for him to try.

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2090 on: September 25, 2015, 01:16:47 AM »

Scuttling away from Block 5 is one thing. There were plenty of other blocks/houses in the vicinity for him to try.
Given the way in which he was disturbed, he would predict that GNR would certainly be called and might arrive very soon, and IMO he would not try any other property in the whole town Misty.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2091 on: September 25, 2015, 01:19:47 AM »
Quote from: pegasus link=topic=1868.msg275271#msg %56& %56& %56& %56& %56& %56& %56&
275271 date=1443135673
At 5A the burglar couldn't see in so his assumption would be simply that there would be a few things in the apartment maybe some currency a camera some jewellery. His main concerns would be that the occupants are out and his method of entry.

What time? There was no wide open window at 9:30 as Kate claimed she later discovered. Matt returned to the table and told Jane that her daughter was ill. She quickly finished her main course and left minutes later passing through the car park. Russell returned passing through the car park only 5 minutes after to have his main course which he hardly touched because of the alarm being raised by Kate. No valuables were stolen (they don't take kids) and no glove marks found. And to think the parents left their kids alone in that room for 5 nights in a row and not once checked if the window was locked is not credible. SY only have to ask the cleaner if the window was locked because there was no evidence found of it being forced or used at all. A window facing the world or a recessed door exit.



"The McCanns knew that I was going to catch them", 20 October 2008

Moita Flores - Your determination is to get even with those who worked for the McCanns. They've mistreated you.

GA - Believe me, I feel no rage, I'm not even angry. I have understood their game and you also know how this game works. The lies about me, the manipulation is not exactly against the citizen Gonηalo Amaral. They were against the investigator who knew their weaknesses and was going to catch them sooner or later. It was all a matter of time. The McCanns knew that I was going to get them. As you could see, all it took was for the process to be archived in order for everything to be finished. At this moment in time, I'm convinced that they don't even remember my name anymore. So the game is always the same. We want to catch them, they want to escape, and that's it. Sometimes the bandits win, sometimes the policemen do. This time around, and concerning this case, it was how it was. They stopped insulting me, they stopped the campaigns to find their daughter, it's over. They got what they wanted and therefore, peace is back.

MF – And you launch a "grenade" that is called The Truth of the Lie into the midst of that peace. Whoever reads your testimony is left with few doubts about the little girl's destiny. She died in the apartment.

GA – Do you doubt it?

MF – No. Neither I nor the older people who used to work with me. When this happened, I was in Greece and I heard the news through an English channel. The story was so badly told, that only a naive or silly person would believe it. As a matter of fact, when I arrived, I had dinner with several already retired colleagues that worked in homicides, and their opinion was the same. The detail about the window killed the version. Nobody passes through that narrow window space carrying a child.

GA – The window made me doubt. And not only that.

MF – But I do insist on the window. The mother said that she never touched it.

GA – That she never even opened it.

MF – Now, when I read the process, I realised that her fingerprints were on it. And positioned in a manner that coincides with an opening movement.

GA – It was with that, with Kate's fingerprints on the window that I wanted to catch them.

MF – That's the truth of the lie.

GA – Among other things. It was one of the best games that I ever saw played out, to divert attention from what really happened in the apartment. The manner in which they "worked" for the Smith was brilliant.

MF – The couple that recognised the father carrying the little girl.

GA – Exactly. It was done in such a manner that at one point in time, it was Gerry himself who informed that someone had witnessed the situation, as if the person that was recognised had been someone else.

MF – Wearing the clothes that the friend mentioned for the photofit.

GA – Precisely.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id173.html



Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Online misty

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2092 on: September 25, 2015, 01:27:54 AM »
IMO given the way in which he was disturbed, he would predict that GNR would be called and might arrive very soon, and IMO he would not try any other property in the whole town Misty.

What sort of burglar do you think this guy was? The sort who would chance his luck during daylight hours and walk away with a TV? The sort who would enter an occupied apartment a la Mrs Fenn? The sort who was savvy enough to know guests had just dumped their luggage & gone out? The sort who chanced upon a holiday let where the very window he tried under a loosened shutter just happened to be open? Where was he doing his reconnaissance from, to witness the parents leave but remain invisible to others?

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2093 on: September 25, 2015, 01:32:27 AM »
(snip)...What time? There was no wide open window at 9:30 ...(snip)
IMO window and shutter were opened from outside after 9.05 check ended and before 9.30 check started.
(snip)....No valuables were stolen...(snip)
IMO immediately after opening the window and shutter the burglar was disturbed before climbing in.
(snip)...positioned in a manner that coincides with an opening movement...(snip)
Please post photo from files of this print so we can discuss it
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 01:38:11 AM by pegasus »

Offline mercury

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2094 on: September 25, 2015, 01:33:29 AM »
If people based their views on heavier duty shutters than fitted at blocks 5 and 4, or on shutters that lock, or on electric shutters like Dispatches, or on windows that autolock, then yes it's understandable they might conclude that opening from outside was impossible for the designs they examined.
no one "examined" anything and further there's no evidence an opportunistic burglar opened them shutters and alledged open window so you're in a hiding to nowhere basically....all supposition

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2095 on: September 25, 2015, 01:43:05 AM »
IMO window and shutter were opened from outside after 9.05 check ended and before 9.30 check started.Please post photo from files of this print so we can discuss it

Ridiculous notion. A wide open window that produces no draught, sound, moving curtains and the door that stayed half-open when Matt checked. Checkers passing through the car park or the Moyes returning home didn't notice raised shutters and there is a street light outside by the car park entrance. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that happened.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 01:45:46 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline mercury

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2096 on: September 25, 2015, 01:51:54 AM »
Ridiculous notion.
Of course it is
There's no way one  can enter a room especially on a windy night and not notice the cold or wind or their flapping curtains
All was well until Kate McCann entered and apparently the wind blew the curtains open.......a fact she did not tell to the PJ or to anyone else. Until May 2009

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2097 on: September 25, 2015, 01:55:10 AM »
no one "examined" anything and further there's no evidence an opportunistic burglar opened them shutters and alledged open window so you're in a hiding to nowhere basically....all supposition
You say it's supposition but crime statistics say almost all unauthorised window openings are by a burglar. And if a burglar gets disturbed by someone while opening a window obviously he is not going to climb in and steal anything.

Offline mercury

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2098 on: September 25, 2015, 02:10:45 AM »
You say it's supposition but crime statistics say almost all unauthorised window openings are by a burglar. And if a burglar gets disturbed by someone while opening a window obviously he is not going to climb in and steal anything.

Well if your going to quote statistics you can't not quote them vis a vis parents or frends and relatives of any family being responsble for most child disappearances come abuse come deaths!!!

aS for a burglar you STILLL have no evidence

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #2099 on: September 25, 2015, 02:12:14 AM »
Ridiculous notion. A wide open window that produces no draught, sound, moving curtains and the door that stayed half-open when Matt checked. Checkers passing through the car park or the Moyes returning home didn't notice raised shutters and there is a street light outside by the car park entrance. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that happened.
I've already explained why he didn't notice the window open IMO - because he didn't move the door. KM noticed the window open only after opening a fully closed door. Sudden pressure adjustment when the window is open and one opens the fully closed door Pathfinder. But let's discuss your complete theory of what happened in the child bedroom, which if I recall goes like "child was not in there, window never moved, shutter never moved, door never moved, absolutely nothing happened" ?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 02:17:06 AM by pegasus »