Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[mercury]

I've already explained why he didn't notice the window open - because he didn't move the door. KM noticed the window open only after opening a fully closed door. Sudden pressure adjustment when one opens a fully closed door Pathfinder. But let's discuss your complete theory of what happened in the child bedroom, which if I recall goes like "child was not in there, window never moved, shutter never moved, door never moved, absolutely nothing happened" ?

But she didn't open a fully closed door did she???? It was wide open, had enough here tonight Tara

[pegasus]

But she didn't open a fully closed door did she???? It was wide open, had enough here tonight Tara

Witness moved the open door to almost closed. Door slammed to fully closed. Witness opened the fully closed door. Curtains briefly blew inward.

[mercury]

Witness moved the open door to almost closed. Door slammed to fully closed. Witness opened the fully closed door. Curtains briefly blew inward.

Witness accused PJ of protecting paedophiles ergo witness is totally full of shit

And no I don't believe her or her husband, neither have given me any confidence ever or seemed honest at all. Sorry about that

[Lace]

Ridiculous notion. A wide open window that produces no draught, sound, moving curtains and the door that stayed half-open when Matt checked. Checkers passing through the car park or the Moyes returning home didn't notice raised shutters and there is a street light outside by the car park entrance. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that happened.

What if the person was already in Madeleine's room when Matt did his check?    He then opened the window after Matt had gone,  thinking it would be a means of escape should someone come back?

[Brietta]

What time? There was no wide open window at 9:30 as Kate claimed she later discovered. Matt returned to the table and told Jane that her daughter was ill. She quickly finished her main course and left minutes later passing through the car park. Russell returned passing through the car park only 5 minutes after to have his main course which he hardly touched because of the alarm being raised by Kate. No valuables were stolen (they don't take kids) and no glove marks found. And to think the parents left their kids alone in that room for 5 nights in a row and not once checked if the window was locked is not credible. SY only have to ask the cleaner if the window was locked because there was no evidence found of it being forced or used at all. A window facing the world or a recessed door exit.



"The McCanns knew that I was going to catch them", 20 October 2008

Moita Flores - Your determination is to get even with those who worked for the McCanns. They've mistreated you.

GA - Believe me, I feel no rage, I'm not even angry. I have understood their game and you also know how this game works. The lies about me, the manipulation is not exactly against the citizen Gonηalo Amaral. They were against the investigator who knew their weaknesses and was going to catch them sooner or later. It was all a matter of time. The McCanns knew that I was going to get them. As you could see, all it took was for the process to be archived in order for everything to be finished. At this moment in time, I'm convinced that they don't even remember my name anymore. So the game is always the same. We want to catch them, they want to escape, and that's it. Sometimes the bandits win, sometimes the policemen do. This time around, and concerning this case, it was how it was. They stopped insulting me, they stopped the campaigns to find their daughter, it's over. They got what they wanted and therefore, peace is back.

MF – And you launch a "grenade" that is called The Truth of the Lie into the midst of that peace. Whoever reads your testimony is left with few doubts about the little girl's destiny. She died in the apartment.

GA – Do you doubt it?

MF – No. Neither I nor the older people who used to work with me. When this happened, I was in Greece and I heard the news through an English channel. The story was so badly told, that only a naive or silly person would believe it. As a matter of fact, when I arrived, I had dinner with several already retired colleagues that worked in homicides, and their opinion was the same. The detail about the window killed the version. Nobody passes through that narrow window space carrying a child.

GA – The window made me doubt. And not only that.

MF – But I do insist on the window. The mother said that she never touched it.

GA – That she never even opened it.

MF – Now, when I read the process, I realised that her fingerprints were on it. And positioned in a manner that coincides with an opening movement.

GA – It was with that, with Kate's fingerprints on the window that I wanted to catch them.

MF – That's the truth of the lie.

GA – Among other things. It was one of the best games that I ever saw played out, to divert attention from what really happened in the apartment. The manner in which they "worked" for the Smith was brilliant.

MF – The couple that recognised the father carrying the little girl.

GA – Exactly. It was done in such a manner that at one point in time, it was Gerry himself who informed that someone had witnessed the situation, as if the person that was recognised had been someone else.

MF – Wearing the clothes that the friend mentioned for the photofit.

GA – Precisely.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id173.html

I think the particular clip you have chosen illustrates almost exactly what went wrong with this investigation ... probably right from the word go.

In the huge game against master criminals and selling a book ... "The window made me doubt."

Reading that transcript carefully one thing which is certainly missing from the investigation into a missing little girl is any real focus on the child herself and cogent analysis of the crime scene, except briefly to remind the audience that Madeleine McCann's death is assured.

The rest is self serving drivel which is all ... me ... me ... me, which if believed verges on paranoia.  Is there any doubt with attitudes such as that it was very much a case of "God help Madeleine" because for certain sure the senior investigator's attitude makes it plain, no-one else apart from her parents was the least bit interested.

[pathfinder73]

What if the person was already in Madeleine's room when Matt did his check?    He then opened the window after Matt had gone,  thinking it would be a means of escape should someone come back?

In that scenario, why doesn't he simply walk out the safer recessed door in seconds? Why waste time and have a greater chance of being caught by opening noisy shutters and a window that anybody can see? Shame that nobody else saw it open except Amy. The window is a red herring so you follow any evidence found on it i.e. that shouldn't be there if witnesses claim they never touched it.

[pegasus]

In that scenario, why doesn't he simply walk out the safer recessed door in seconds? Why waste time and have a greater chance of being caught by opening noisy shutters and a window that anybody can see? Shame that nobody else saw it open except Amy. The window is a red herring so you follow any evidence found on it i.e. that shouldn't be there if witnesses claim they never touched it.

"so you follow any evidence found on it"
Agreed so let's do that. Please post the photo of the print which supposedly indicates KM opened the window. I don't think you can.

[pegasus]

The witness's account of the door not slamming at all when it was in the almost open position, but then slamming immediately when she placed it in almost closed position, is completely in accord with the physics of airflow coming in an open window, through a doorway, and out the tall kitchen vent stack. The air velocity through the doorway is much greater when the door is almost closed because there is less area for it to pass through. The physics is all good, the witness is telling the truth.

[pathfinder73]

The witness's account of the door not slamming at all when it was in the almost open position, but then slamming immediately when she placed it in almost closed position, is completely in accord with the physics of airflow coming in an open window, through a doorway, and out the tall kitchen vent stack etc. The air velocity through the doorway is much greater when the door is almost closed because there is less area for it to pass through. The physics is all good, the witness is telling the truth.

When did that story first appear?

[G-Unit]

The witness's account of the door not slamming at all when it was in the almost open position, but then slamming immediately when she placed it in almost closed position, is completely in accord with the physics of airflow coming in an open window, through a doorway, and out the tall kitchen vent stack. The air velocity through the doorway is much greater when the door is almost closed because there is less area for it to pass through. The physics is all good, the witness is telling the truth.

Airflow coming through an open window would have been noticed as someone reached into the room to get hold of the door to close it if it was strong enough to slam the door.

[pegasus]

At start of check, window is open and door is in almost open position, there is airflow in through window, through door, and out kitchen vent chimney (gravity and venturi effects suck air up the vent chimney). The air pressure in the kitchen is almost the same as the pressure in the bedroom because the air is continuously flowing to make the two pressures almost the same.

Now almost close the door. The same volume of air per second still flows bedroom to kitchen through the doorway but through a much smaller gap so the air velocity is much greater and produces a large force on the door at an angle almost 90 degrees making it slam to fully closed.

The pressure in the bedroom is now much higher than in the kitchen because the airflow which tries to make them the same has been blocked.

Now open the door. Briefly there will be an airflow at a much larger velocity than before, to get rid of that large pressure difference, of enough velocity to blow the curtains in. This is when the curtains blow in. Then within seconds the airflow will reduce to the slower rate same as at beginning of check, and the curtains will stop blowing in.

The physics is all good and the witness is telling the truth IMO. 

[pegasus]

Just realised, if someone did open the window and shutter from outside, this causes the bedroom door to slam shut.

As I said, instead of just assuming a witness is lying by deeply thought out arguments like "the witness is obviously full of..." or catchphrases like "the door that never moved", if one assumes (correctly IMO) that the witness is telling the truth , one can work out small but important details of what may have happened. 

[Anna]

Just realised, if someone did open the window and shutter from outside, this causes the bedroom door to slam shut.

Would that not depend on the intensity of air movement at the time?

I think it is more likely to be a through draught from the patio doors being left open on the checks and not the kitchen chimney. I cant see anyone making any more noise than necessary while checking the children, so they would have opened the door and left it while checking, IMO.

Change of subject......
Wasn't it the window from the patio doors that had Kate's fingerprints?

[jassi]

The patio door should have Matt's prints as well as those of Kate and Gerry - oh and also probably Dave's from earlier in the evening.

[pegasus]

Airflow coming through an open window would have been noticed as someone reached into the room to get hold of the door to close it if it was strong enough to slam the door.

IMO the airflow velocity when the door was almost open was not fast enough to notice.
The area of the bedroom doorway through which air can flow with door almost open is about 2 square metres.
If you then move the door to almost closed with a 2cm gap, the area of the bedroom doorway through which air can flow is reduced to about 0.06 square metres.
The air velocity through the doorway is now about 33 times greater.
So an airflow unnoticeable with door almost open, if you then almost close the door, can easily slam the door shut IMO.