Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[mercury]

Step 2 - Many posters (not all) agree that a child was in the child bedroom, then later was not in that bedroom.
The room has a door.
So the solution of this bit also is easy - child walks from bedroom through doorway.
Again it doesn't solve the whole disappearance, but it does solve the disappearance from the child bedroom.

It solves it as part of a possible scenario with no real evidence to back it up....it's a hypothesis that makes quite a few (unprovable) assumptions to make it work

ETA not saying it's wrong, saying you can't promote it as a probability

[pegasus]

You will never get the full picture Pegasus if even one of the jigsaw pieces is missing. And an unfinished picture tells us nothing useful.

I've only done the first two pieces Faithlilly. But ask anyone else to explain their answer (I already posted mine) to this easy small question - What was the method of leaving the bed? You will get probably get things like "lifted out" or "drugged then lifted out" or "never was in the bed".

[misty]

I've only done the first two pieces Faithlilly. But ask anyone else to explain their answer (I already posted mine) to this easy small question - What was the method of leaving the bed? You will get probably get things like "lifted out" or "drugged then lifted out" or "never was in the bed".

If the bedcovers in the Crime Scene photo are as they were found at 10pm - I'm not seeing a bed that a child sat up in & got out of. The triangle appears to have been positioned from the outside, not pushed back with feet as a child would frequently do, especially given the proximity of the chest of drawers.

[pegasus]

It solves it as part of a possible scenario with no real evidence to back it up....it's a hypothesis that makes quite a few (unprovable) assumptions to make it work

ETA not saying it's wrong, saying you can't promote it as a probability

I have only progressed about 3 metres Mercury. But what is your theory for the first half a metre?

..............................................................................
Sorry Pegasus I had to Edit fault in topic header or it would be copied over and over again. Anna

[Anna]

If the bedcovers in the Crime Scene photo are as they were found at 10pm - I'm not seeing a bed that a child sat up in & got out of. The triangle appears to have been positioned from the outside, not pushed back with feet as a child would frequently do, especially given the proximity of the chest of drawers.

The bed sheets etc had also been checked by the GNR.
Did they put them back as they  found them, before forensic team arrived?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These are excerpts from the statement:-



Then, while his colleague remained in the hall, and the others were in the living room, the witness went through the entire apartment. He opened all the cupboards in the bedrooms, living room and kitchen and checked under the beds and inside the washing machine. He did not see the fridge.
………………………………

During the search he did not find anything strange apart from the bedclothes on Madeleine's bed, which were too tidy, it appeared that she had been picked up from or had left the bed with great care. There was a mark on the sheet that appeared to be made by a child's body.

………………….
After the search, he noticed a situation that seemed unusual to him, when at a determined moment, the girl's parents kneeled down on the floor of their bedroom and placed their heads on the bed, crying. He did not notice any comments or expression from them, just crying. He says that at the main reception the father also knelt down, placing his head on the floor and crying. He did not hear the father say anything.
……………………………….....

When questioned about the windows in the bedroom, he only remembers that the window in the girl's bedroom was closed with the blind raised up the space of the width of a hand. He does not remember the existence of curtains. The father indicated, through the translator, alleging that when the disappearance was discovered, the windows and blinds were open.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id258.html

[mercury]

I have only progressed about 3 metres Mercury. But what is your theory for the first half a metre?

I don't have a theory but what you're doing  is trying to amalgamate one proven event with an unproven one IE child missing and windows open

The theory that child woke and wondered doesn't need an attempted burglary to make  it feasible


edited
header adjusted . Post untouched...Anna

[pegasus]

I don't have a theory but what you're doing  is trying to amalgamate one proven event with an unproven one IE child missing and windows open

The theory that child woke and wondered doesn't need an attempted burglary to make  it feasible


edited
header adjusted . Post untouched...Anna

I approach it sequentially Mercury, given the starting location, solve the method of getting from there to half a metre away.
I agree it appears to be easy to make a w+w theory without the window and shutter being opened. Two recognised experts did exactly that, one if I recall correctly was MWT and the other another brit ex-police expert. But there are two problems with both of their theories - first they don't provide any good reason for w+w, and second they completely forget that in this actual case, the window and shutter actually were opened by someone.

[Brietta]

The bed sheets etc had also been checked by the GNR.
Did they put them back as they  found them, before forensic team arrived?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These are excerpts from the statement:-



Then, while his colleague remained in the hall, and the others were in the living room, the witness went through the entire apartment. He opened all the cupboards in the bedrooms, living room and kitchen and checked under the beds and inside the washing machine. He did not see the fridge.
………………………………

During the search he did not find anything strange apart from the bedclothes on Madeleine's bed, which were too tidy, it appeared that she had been picked up from or had left the bed with great care. There was a mark on the sheet that appeared to be made by a child's body.

………………….
After the search, he noticed a situation that seemed unusual to him, when at a determined moment, the girl's parents kneeled down on the floor of their bedroom and placed their heads on the bed, crying. He did not notice any comments or expression from them, just crying. He says that at the main reception the father also knelt down, placing his head on the floor and crying. He did not hear the father say anything.
……………………………….....

When questioned about the windows in the bedroom, he only remembers that the window in the girl's bedroom was closed with the blind raised up the space of the width of a hand. He does not remember the existence of curtains. The father indicated, through the translator, alleging that when the disappearance was discovered, the windows and blinds were open.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id258.html

During the search he did not find anything strange apart from the bedclothes on Madeleine's bed, which were too tidy, it appeared that she had been picked up from or had left the bed with great care. There was a mark on the sheet that appeared to be made by a child's body.


I think that is entirely consistent with Madeleine's father saying she was lying on top of the covers.

One early police thought was that the intruder may have been on the premises at the time, and that must have been a bitter pill for any father to swallow.

Maybe if procedure had allowed the GNR  to keep on with their investigations we might have had a very different conclusion.

We know that people are capable of climbing in these windows ... or no-one would bother covering them with grilles ... once in there is nothing which says they can't climb back out whether carrying a child or not ... but why bother when the front door allows a perfect exit.

[pegasus]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1868.0;attach=5720;image
The photo and the GNR statement suggest IMO either one or other of
A. Child was under covers, sat up, got off the bed, did not return.
B. Child was under covers, sat up, got off the bed, went somewhere, came back, got back onto bed on top of covers, then later got off the bed, did not return.

[pegasus]

He opened all the cupboards in the bedrooms

Great, the hinges were working ok.

[pegasus]

(snip)...The theory that child woke and wondered doesn't need an attempted burglary to make  it feasible

BTW a difficulty for the w+w idea is shoes, one of the early searchers asked, and they were still there.

[Angelo222]

BTW a difficulty for the w+w idea is shoes, one of the early searchers asked, and they were still there.

A distressed child waking in the gloom of a darkened bedroom doesn't take the time to find her shoes.  This is especially so if the child was awakened and startled by a stranger peering in an open bedroom window!

To answer the opening post, an intruder could have opened the bedroom window and climbed in but that didn't happen according to the forensic evidence and I would believe that before any witness.

[pegasus]

A distressed child waking in the gloom of a darkened bedroom doesn't take the time to find her shoes.  This is especially so if the child was awakened and startled by a stranger peering in an open bedroom window!

I might re-read the two w+w theories (by MWT, and by another expert) to see how they deal with this pair of clues.

[pegasus]

"...the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine's shoes were there, to which they replied that they were ..." (statement of employee AT)

[pegasus]

First part of MWT's theory
"I believe what happened on May 3 was that Madeleine woke up, cried for a short while, realised her parents weren't in the apartment as they had not come in to settle her, so she climbed out of bed and walked around the apartment. She found the back patio door was insecure and partly open so she walked out, went down the small flight of steps and out of the gate, turning right down towards the entrance to the resort and the Tapas bar................"
http://news.sky.com/story/599836/madeleine-my-theories-on-missing-girl

No mention of shoes, and no explanation of why the window and shutter were open.