Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[pegasus]

We are talking holiday apartments here where there was access to keys ... not residential villas.

One of the thoughts for the window being left as it was in the room where Madeleine McCann was sleeping was to detract from the notion a key may have been used.

Indeed, we can see Mr Amaral in his documentary going to some length to reinforce that suggestion.  It is a puzzlement that in the early stages of the investigation two possible means of entry and exit were played down (three I believe, if one takes into account what Mr Amaral says in his book about the difficulty an intruder would have had entering via the less secluded patio door).

If a burglar entered using a copied key he would as soon as he looked in the north bedroom be shocked to see there were children in there and obviously he would then assume that if there are children there must also be adults in the other bedroom so he would be straight out the front door empty handed. No open window and shutter would result.

[Brietta]

If a burglar thinking everyone was out used a copied key to go in through the front door, he would soon discover to his shock that people were in, and he would leave immediately and empty handed through the front door. The window and shutter would certainly still be closed at 10pm, which would mean the witness is lying.

If a burglar with no key, thinking everyone was out opened the shutter and window from outside, he would immediately discover to his shock that people were in, before he even entered, and he would leave immediately empty-handed. The window and shutter would certainly be discovered open at 10pm, which would mean the witness is telling the truth.

Take your pick.

I'm very relaxed that you have that one wrong on both counts, Pegasus.

There are just so many instances of homes being burgled with the residents at home that it makes the notion it is a deterrence redundant.

You are also going with the assumption the person who invaded apartment 5A was a lone opportunistic burglar.
There is no evidence for that.

However there is witness evidence that apartment 5A may have been under observation during the time of the McCann family stay there.
Too many unconnected independent sightings preceding Madeleine's disappearance to be discounted.

Which is why I tend towards thinking the open window and raised shutter was a deliberate red herring.  Very sloppy work otherwise either for the opportunist who could have lowered it as quickly as it was raised ... or the planned who would have lowered it to cover tracks.

[pegasus]

What about the at least 3 earlier burglaries of apartments in that pair of blocks that year.
In all of those cases a window was found open and there was no sign of forced entry.
Surely you cannot claim that they were done by someone with the intention of abduction?
Key (your theory) or no key (my theory), it is very obvious surely that those apartments were done by a burglar.

[pegasus]

An apology for a pun which was unintentional.
When I said "take your pick" I meant "please choose between your theory and mine" Brietta.
For clarity, it was not a suggestion that you take up burglary by lock-picking.

[Brietta]

What about the at least 3 earlier burglaries of apartments in that pair of blocks that year.
In all of those cases a window was found open and there was no sign of forced entry.
Surely you cannot claim that they were done by someone with the intention of abduction?
Key (your theory) or no key (my theory), it is very obvious surely that those apartments were done by a burglar.

Where is it reported that a window was left open ~ I thought the accusation at the time was that the tourists were careless in locking the door or in hiding a key outside? 
I don't know what may have been taken from Mrs Fenn's apartment or if he was disturbed before he could lift anything.  With the exception of a plasma screen, which I presume to be a TV, I have no idea what else may have gone amiss from the other burglaries.

Although vehemently denied in the past ... we now know for certain there was a predator on the loose who thought nothing of entering occupied premises ... sometimes doing a bit of petty thieving and/or molesting children.

I think the person\s who took Madeleine may well have had burglar skills.  They may have used them on the third of May ... but not with the intention of snaffling a passport or a camera.

[Brietta]

An apology for a pun which was unintentional.
When I said "take your pick" I meant "please choose between your theory and mine" Brietta.
For clarity, it was not a suggestion that you take up burglary by lock-picking.

I missed it entirely,Pegasus, definitely not offended.

[pegasus]

Where is it reported that a window was left open ~ I thought the accusation at the time was that the tourists were careless in locking the door or in hiding a key outside? 
I don't know what may have been taken from Mrs Fenn's apartment or if he was disturbed before he could lift anything.  With the exception of a plasma screen, which I presume to be a TV, I have no idea what else may have gone amiss from the other burglaries.

Although vehemently denied in the past ... we now know for certain there was a predator on the loose who thought nothing of entering occupied premises ... sometimes doing a bit of petty thieving and/or molesting children.

I think the person\s who took Madeleine may well have had burglar skills.  They may have used them on the third of May ... but not with the intention of snaffling a passport or a camera.

At 5G certainly the only accessible window and its shutter were discovered open by the occupant.
I will try to post information about window state at 5L and at an apartment in block 4.   

[pegasus]

Apartments 5G and 5L each have one burglar-accessible window just like 5A. Their shutters are the same design as 5A. Almost certainly the windows are the same design too.  The source for the fact that the burglaries at 5G and 5L were by window entry is the Metropolitan Police Service
https://web.archive.org/web/20131018062219/http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Madeleine-McCann-Appeal--October-2013/1400020463601/1257246745782
"Two of the burglaries in April were in Block 5 where Madeleine disappeared from. In both these burglaries entry was via a window"

[Brietta]

Apartments 5G and 5L each have one burglar-accessible window just like 5A. Their shutters are the same design as 5A. Almost certainly the windows are the same design too.  The source for the fact that the burglaries at 5G and 5L were by window entry is the Metropolitan Police Service
https://web.archive.org/web/20131018062219/http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Madeleine-McCann-Appeal--October-2013/1400020463601/1257246745782
"Two of the burglaries in April were in Block 5 where Madeleine disappeared from. In both these burglaries entry was via a window"

I remember that being said.

Doesn't alter the possibility that the tactic (if the window and shutter were found as at 5A) was to take attention from a key being used to open the door.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Of course, we have to believe that an abduction took place- as the McCann family were being watched? Oh Really, well how cool was that abductor sneaking in between all the traffic.... parents hearing,  looking,  listening,  checking blah blah. not to mention the kids waking up crying...Hmm red herring indeed!  The shutter and window was not used as entry - exit and Kate's knowing Maddie was abducted because of that scene is pure fantasy.

Burglars casing a joint would not be wanting children, they want money, jewels etc. abduction? well why not abduct all three kids?  You know if there was more thanone involved and cars were used... but then  Jane only saw one abductor....tsk

McCanns trying to re write their own history now?  THEY left a door unlocked...responsibility lies wholly with the parents. Now you can jiggle all you like, but that is the fact.

[pegasus]

I remember that being said.

Doesn't alter the possibility that the tactic (if the window and shutter were found as at 5A) was to take attention from a key being used to open the door.

With what keys? Where would a small-time burglar get keys from for 5L and 5G and 5A?
These shutters have no locks, no bolts, they can be opened from outside, you don't need a door key.

[Alice Purjorick]

Of course, we have to believe that an abduction took place- as the McCann family were being watched? Oh Really, well how cool was that abductor sneaking in between all the traffic.... parents hearing,  looking,  listening,  checking blah blah. not to mention the kids waking up crying...Hmm red herring indeed!  The shutter and window was not used as entry - exit and Kate's knowing Maddie was abducted because of that scene is pure fantasy.

Burglars casing a joint would not be wanting children, they want money, jewels etc. abduction? well why not abduct all three kids?  You know if there was more thanone involved and cars were used... but then  Jane only saw one abductor....tsk

McCanns trying to re write their own history now?  THEY left a door unlocked...responsibility lies wholly with the parents. Now you can jiggle all you like, but that is the fact.

True, but what fun the rest of have seeing folk giving each other high fives for their incisive thinking.

[Miss Taken Identity]

True, but what fun the rest of have seeing folk giving each other high fives for their incisive thinking.

Indeed Alice!

 I oft wonder.... this 'story' smacks of Peter Pan...children being left alone- the eldest sister in charge of sibings... people flying out windows- parents returing from a ball to find them gone...

[pegasus]

Both KM and GM deduced immediately that the window was opened from outside.
As it happens they were correct about that IMO.
But now posters who support them are posting every argument under the sun against that correct (IMO) solution.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Both KM and GM deduced immediately that the window was opened from outside.
As it happens they were correct about that IMO.
But now posters who support them are posting every argument under the sun against that correct solution.

Yes, when the first story is trashed they find another event and so on...... same with the time line.
reminds me of playing who dun it...Miss Scarlet in the ballroom with the rope, or colonel Mustard...KM and GM deduced a lot of things that did not add up... forgrrabout it.