Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[Brietta]

From another threadThis is a very interesting point. Let's imagine the adults had gone to bed early at 8.30pm and were asleep. What would have happened then if someone had opened the child bedroom window and shutter from outside?

I think the outcome would have been exactly as it was with the exception that instead of Madeleine's absence being noticed at 10.00pm she would not have been missed till the morning.

[pegasus]

Net curtains plus main curtains are a considerable barrier to a potential intruder, especially one who doesn't know what awaits him underneath the window. In the situation you describe, the intruder could only have heard a child, not seen one, unless the intruder was disturbed by someone approaching in the car park.

Sober adults in bed v sober adults in restaurant :- we have already been made aware of intruders in children's bedrooms while the parents were on the balcony and no sound of entry was heard. I'm not aware as I type how the various intruders left the premises.
If the event occurred at, say, 3am, entry was gained using a key & Madeleine was chloroformed & removed, would the parents have heard anything? I don't know. Many people don't hear anything through their sleep during a house burglary. It would have posed a greater risk for an abductor in those circumstances.
It may have been much more difficult for the parents to demonstrate their innocence, given the lack of forensics and the greater timeframe in which cadaver concealment could have taken place.

But the fact you omit is that someone opened the the child bedroom shutter and window. Surely that would wake the child, who would then obviously run into the other bedroom and wake the parents.

[pegasus]

I think the outcome would have been exactly as it was with the exception that instead of Madeleine's absence being noticed at 10.00pm she would not have been missed till the morning.

But surely the noise of the shutter being opened would have woken the sleeping parents (even if they were both sleeping in the other room), also it would have woken the child.

[misty]

But the fact you omit is that someone opened the the child bedroom shutter and window. Surely that would wake the child, who would then obviously run into the other bedroom and wake the parents.

If the child was sedated first, there would be no waking. The shutters produce much less noise when opened from the inside. Had the parents' bedroom door been closed and the children's door too, then any noise would have been minimal in the parents' room.

[pathfinder73]

IMO at that time in the restaurant (2203 or whenever it was), back at the apartment the window and shutter were in the open positions.

An untruth leads you to the truth.

[pegasus]

If the child was sedated first, there would be no waking. The shutters produce much less noise when opened from the inside. Had the parents' bedroom door been closed and the children's door too, then any noise would have been minimal in the parents' room.

Well we are back again to the obvious point, that as soon as your intruder had sedated the child in your scenario, your intruder would exit out the front door, without wasting time walking to the other end of the room and opening the window and shutter - that would be completely pointless.

[misty]

Well we are back again to the obvious point, that as soon as your intruder had sedated the child in your scenario, your intruder would exit out the front door, without wasting time walking to the other end of the room and opening the window and shutter - that would be completely pointless.

If the parents walked into the room, the intruder would be trapped without the open window.

[Brietta]

Well we are back again to the obvious point, that as soon as your intruder had sedated the child in your scenario, your intruder would exit out the front door, without wasting time walking to the other end of the room and opening the window and shutter - that would be completely pointless.

If the intruder entered via the front door, a quick look would have ascertained that the parents' bedroom door was closed. 

• Quick entry into children's room quietly closing the door behind.
• Open window and raise shutter as an escape route should the parents be alerted, or to pass the child to an accomplice
• Sedate the child
• Either pass her through the window or walk out the front door with her

There is nothing to say that having passed the child through, the intruder might not follow and use the window as an exit.  It could all have been easily and quickly accomplished while the parents slept.

[Brietta]

If the parents walked into the room, the intruder would be trapped without the open window.

Definitely an escape route.  An intruder would not have allowed himself to be cornered like a rat in a trap and would have had enough time to get out if the parents were heard moving about.

[misty]

Definitely an escape route.  An intruder would not have allowed himself to be cornered like a rat in a trap and would have had enough time to get out if the parents were heard moving about.

He would have been cornered. After entering the apartment, he would have had to close the front door, only opening it again when ready to exit.

[G-Unit]

Well we are back again to the obvious point, that as soon as your intruder had sedated the child in your scenario, your intruder would exit out the front door, without wasting time walking to the other end of the room and opening the window and shutter - that would be completely pointless.

To say the child was sedated it's necessary to describe how that was accomplished.

[misty]

To say the child was sedated it's necessary to describe how that was accomplished.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Murder-trial-soldier-Leicester-accused-buying/story-27631252-detail/story.html

It can also be home-made.
The choice sedation method used by child abductors, as per Wendy Murphy (US expert on all things McCann)

[lordpookles]

Sedation - sounds like an extremely complicated plan. Add in a key and we are in bank heist type territory - not to say that is completely incredible as to some stealing a child is as valuable as a large sum of money and possibly carries a greater penalty, so imo the same planning may go into a child abduction. Although a peodophile imo is unlikely given the child's age, which is good for Madeleine. The simplest method imo would be opening the shutter from the outside and enticing the child over to the window. I fail to see how luring the child to the window is not a very definite possibility. It has the advantage of completely explaining the state of the crime scene too.

[Brietta]

Sedation - sounds like an extremely complicated plan. Add in a key and we are in bank heist type territory - not to say that is completely incredible as to some stealing a child is as valuable as a large sum of money and possibly carries a greater penalty, so imo the same planning may go into a child abduction. Although a peodophile imo is unlikely given the child's age, which is good for Madeleine. The simplest method imo would be opening the shutter from the outside and enticing the child over to the window. I fail to see how luring the child to the window is not a very definite possibility. It has the advantage of completely explaining the state of the crime scene too.

Apparently sedation was the MO of Raymond Hewlett a known paedophile who was in the area at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.

The lifting through the window is certainly the simplest explanation ... particularly if Madeleine's name was known.

However I think it leaves too many hostages to fortune.  If it was a planned abduction there was no guarantee that Madeleine would have gone anywhere near the window.

[lordpookles]

Yup regarding 'hostages to fortune' I was thinking of someone trying their luck. Of course if it is someone Madeleine knew I would expect the chances of success to go up quite a bit. If someone wants something badly enough there is no limit or lenghts to what someone may do or how cunning they may be to get what they want. Makes you think... There can be only one way it happened obviously. Would be interesting to hear what other theories people in here may have - I mean just possible theories that revolve around abduction...