Author Topic: The Smith sighting revisited.  (Read 114141 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #525 on: November 02, 2014, 04:16:20 AM »
No-one can find a single other case where someone carried a child openly in their arms?
Out of hundreds of cases - none?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #526 on: November 02, 2014, 09:15:21 AM »
Yep, I can see the blanket, white-light pink. 

Trouble is that that is Crechmans daughters blanket, not Madeleines, same as those jamies are crechmans daughters jamies..


Truly dont think that Madeleines blanket was taken.  That is a myth PFinder





As for the window being open, depends how many abductors were involved, dont you think?

What was it the McCanns gave the GNR dog handlers so that they could (at least try) to prime their dogs with Madeleine's scent?

Offline pegasus

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #527 on: November 02, 2014, 11:37:24 PM »
You will know why when it's solved. Open carrying = desperate measures to hide/dispose of the evidence e.g. a body found = time since death and the cause of it. Smithman had no choice!
The point is that desperate measures have been taken also in hundreds of other cases, but never is the perp so stupid to carry in arms openly without some kind of bag or similar. Even when the outdoor carrying is for just a few metres, always the perp places in or wraps in something. There was a case in UK recently where the outdoor pedestrian carrying involved totalled just a few metres - but did the perp carry unconcealed for those few metres? Nope. The known solution tells us a (not actually a) bag (but something similar) was used. .
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 11:47:44 PM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #528 on: November 03, 2014, 12:17:42 AM »
The point is that desperate measures have been taken also in hundreds of other cases, but never is the perp so stupid to carry in arms openly without some kind of bag or similar. Even when the outdoor carrying is for just a few metres, always the perp places in or wraps in something. There was a case in UK recently where the outdoor pedestrian carrying involved totalled just a few metres - but did the perp carry unconcealed for those few metres? Nope. The known solution tells us a (not actually a) bag (but something similar) was used. .

Yes concealed in bag to bin would be first thought for a stranger. Maybe she wasn't thrown in the rubbish because the crime wasn't committed by a stranger  &%+((£
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #529 on: November 03, 2014, 12:20:04 AM »
The point is that desperate measures have been taken also in hundreds of other cases, but never is the perp so stupid to carry in arms openly without some kind of bag or similar. Even when the outdoor carrying is for just a few metres, always the perp places in or wraps in something. There was a case in UK recently where the outdoor pedestrian carrying involved totalled just a few metres - but did the perp carry unconcealed for those few metres? Nope. The known solution tells us a (not actually a) bag (but something similar) was used. .


By its very nature the nefarious abduction of a child is a highly secretive action where great pains are taken to ensure it happens unobserved. 

For this reason there are seldom witnesses to the act of a child being openly carried. 

So whether a child is taken en route and bundled into a vehicle, taken from the yard or taken from bed … there are seldom witnesses to the fact – the only indication being a missing child. 

It stands to reason that there must be occasions when a child is actually carried by an abductor. 

Because it is not witnessed does not mean it has not happened.  Although it only takes minutes it is a high risk strategy … the following is one instance where witnesses were able to intervene and save the child before more harm was done …   


ABDUCTION AND SEXUAL ASSAULT OF A 23 MONTH OLD FEMALE INFANT
 $250,000 REWARD

 
Checker Heading
         
 
Last Updated: 15/09/2008

 

REWARD: The Minister for Police, Corrective Services and Sport has approved a reward of $250,000 be offered for information which leads to the apprehension and conviction of the person or persons responsible for the abduction and sexual assault of a 23 month old female infant at Yarrabah on 17 August 2002.
 

INDEMNITY FROM PROSECUTION: In addition, an appropriate indemnity from prosecution will be recommended for any accomplice, not being the person who actually committed the crime, who first gives such information.

The allocation of the $250,000 reward will be at the sole discretion of the Commissioner of the Police Service.

 CIRCUMSTANCES: At about 3:00am on Saturday 17 August 2002 a 23 month old female infant was abducted from a residence at Stanley Street, Yarrabah where she was sleeping.  The child was taken by foot approximately 300 metres along a dirt track at the rear of Stanley Street. Witnesses observed an unidentified man with the child in his hands.  When challenged by the witnesses, the man placed the child on the ground and ran from the scene.  Witnesses located the child suffering from serious injuries and she was transported to Cairns Base Hospital for treatment. 

Any member of the public with information which could assist Police is asked to contact:
•the Child Protection Investigation Unit, Cairns, Phone (07) 4030 7089;
•any Police Station; or
•Crime Stoppers, Phone 1800 333 000.
http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Abductions.htm

« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 02:41:59 PM by Mr Moderator »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #530 on: November 05, 2014, 01:23:55 AM »
At last a case to look at and compare thankyou Brietta

Look at a satellite picture, the man was not carrying the child along a street, he was carrying the child along a heavily wooded dirt track which runs through the woods behind the back gardens do you see the track?

« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 01:42:21 AM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #531 on: November 05, 2014, 10:12:15 AM »
I'm a retired metropolitan police crime scene investigator, crime lab operator, expert witness, and retired university faculty where I taught forensic science.The questions here are very basic, but so many of them.I'll try to bounce a few quickly. The time of death is important as evidence.It can establish or discredit statements of witnesses, victims and suspects. You cannot enter full rigor in three hours.Opinions vary, but the Three Twelve's rule is a good guide; 12-hours to enter full rigor, 12-hours in full rigor, and 12-hours to exit full rigor.Small muscles are affected first, stay in rigor the shortest time, and relax fastest.Large muscles take longer to enter rigor, stay in rigor longer, and take the longest time to relax.Rigor establishes time of death; I always used jaw muscles v. buttocks or thigh muscles.A decedent with a stiff jaw but soft thigh muscles is in the first 12-hours.Both jaw and thigh in full rigor means the second 12-hour time frame, and soft jaw muscles and stiff thigh muscles means third 12-hour time frame. You check the jaw muscles by wiggling the chin from side-to-side, and the larger muscles by simply pressing hard into the muscle with a straightened finger. The first sign of death is livor mortis --- post-mortem lividity; a "bruising"on the underside of any body part that is facing down.It looks identical to trauma, and a person who died face down will look as if they were beaten to death.I've known cases where parents were wrongly arrested for a SIDS death because it appeared that the baby had been beaten to death.Lividity becomes pronounced in 2-4 hours. Body temperature is of value only in deaths that have recently occurred.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/estimating-the-time-of-death.html
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #532 on: November 05, 2014, 10:36:25 AM »
I'm a retired metropolitan police crime scene investigator, crime lab operator, expert witness, and retired university faculty where I taught forensic science.The questions here are very basic, but so many of them.I'll try to bounce a few quickly. The time of death is important as evidence.It can establish or discredit statements of witnesses, victims and suspects. You cannot enter full rigor in three hours.Opinions vary, but the Three Twelve's rule is a good guide; 12-hours to enter full rigor, 12-hours in full rigor, and 12-hours to exit full rigor.Small muscles are affected first, stay in rigor the shortest time, and relax fastest.Large muscles take longer to enter rigor, stay in rigor longer, and take the longest time to relax.Rigor establishes time of death; I always used jaw muscles v. buttocks or thigh muscles.A decedent with a stiff jaw but soft thigh muscles is in the first 12-hours.Both jaw and thigh in full rigor means the second 12-hour time frame, and soft jaw muscles and stiff thigh muscles means third 12-hour time frame. You check the jaw muscles by wiggling the chin from side-to-side, and the larger muscles by simply pressing hard into the muscle with a straightened finger. The first sign of death is livor mortis --- post-mortem lividity; a "bruising"on the underside of any body part that is facing down.It looks identical to trauma, and a person who died face down will look as if they were beaten to death.I've known cases where parents were wrongly arrested for a SIDS death because it appeared that the baby had been beaten to death.Lividity becomes pronounced in 2-4 hours. Body temperature is of value only in deaths that have recently occurred.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/estimating-the-time-of-death.html

 ... and ??
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #533 on: November 05, 2014, 11:37:12 AM »
It best explains the reason for open carrying a good distance away from the crime scene i.e. desperate measures. The evidence can't be found. This meant passing through streets to get to his safe destination.  They need to start investigating from that sighting and track mobiles that were in that area at 10 - 10:10 on the night. From this they can investigate further and track their movements in the early morning hours of 4 May. If the body was hidden outside there's a possibility that it was moved again or safer hidden before first light. Mobiles that return to the same spot any time in that later 8 hour period before first light are of interest.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline jassi

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #534 on: November 05, 2014, 11:43:16 AM »
A good idea, unless the perp had the mobile switched off, or left at home.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #535 on: November 05, 2014, 11:54:00 AM »
A good idea, unless the perp had the mobile switched off, or left at home.

Any mobiles that are switched off and turned back on in that 8 hour period are of high interest.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #536 on: November 05, 2014, 11:59:23 AM »
Any mobiles that are switched off and turned back on in that 8 hour period are of high interest.
That would be a large percentage of mobiles I would imagine - being switched off at night and turned back on in the morning.  Do you think the police should check all of them?

Offline lordpookles

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #537 on: November 05, 2014, 12:03:43 PM »
do people switch their mobiles off? Mine is constantly on..

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #538 on: November 05, 2014, 12:07:20 PM »
That would be a large percentage of mobiles I would imagine - being switched off at night and turned back on in the morning.  Do you think the police should check all of them?

Don't be ridiculous. Mobiles turned off and turned back on 7/8 hours later are of no interest.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #539 on: November 05, 2014, 12:15:51 PM »
Don't be ridiculous. Mobiles turned off and turned back on 7/8 hours later are of no interest.
Isn't that what you wrote?

Quote
Any mobiles that are switched off and turned back on in that 8 hour period are of high interest.