EU membership, should we stay or leave?

[Admin]

It is not only people in the UK who are dissatisfied with the EU, we have had literally hundreds of tweets from people in other European countries who are annoyed that they are being refused a referendum on the question of membership.

People are at last waking up to what the EU is really all about.

[jassi]

I'm afraid that with people like Gove, Fox and Duncan Smith in favour of leaving, I will have no alternative other than to vote to stay.

[sika]

The fact is, you'd need a crystal ball to know whether leaving would be a good move or bad.  Nobody knows how it will pan out.  We know how much we contribute to the EU pot, but what do we get back as a result?  There is no definitive answer!

 It's interesting that those who generaly share the same political philosophies, like Gove and Cameron, fundamentally disagree on this one.

[Eleanor]

One can be pretty sure that none of them are telling the whole truth.

[Alice Purjorick]

The fact is, you'd need a crystal ball to know whether leaving would be a good move or bad.  Nobody knows how it will pan out.  We know how much we contribute to the EU pot, but what do we get back as a result?  There is no definitive answer!

 It's interesting that those who generaly share the same political philosophies, like Gove and Cameron, fundamentally disagree on this one.

The bit we are really interested in we will not be told!
Similarly we will not be told that the EU issues Directives not laws. A member state enacts the directive by its own laws. The trouble is when it comes to the law of enactment of a directive the French love "plastic and chrome plate" whereas we are incapable seemingly of doing anything other than "naval bronze and polished mahogany"; now whose fault is that ?.
If we leave and wish to trade with the EU we will have to follow their relevant directives anyway and many of our systems will require registered approval from the EU unless we negotiate grandfather rights on the way out.
It could all be fun.

[Alfred R Jones]

All polls we have conducted on twitter consistently show a massive 80%+ want to leave.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/697051777871540224

This absolutely proves what I said on another thread - you can't take online polls or comments as a serious reflection of the general public's opinion on anything.

[mercury]

I agree that most people don't really understand what it is all about, they see all these new EU funded projects all over the place and think what a jolly good job.  What they fail to understand is that it is they the British taxpayer who is actually funding it.  For every £1.50 the UK government pays out to the EU the country only gets £1 back.  The UK is the second largest contributor to the EU. 

If the UK didn't have to dish out nearly £10 billion every year to the EU it could fund its own projects for much less.  Only 9% of the UK's Gross Domestic Product is trade with the EU, the majority of our trade is with the rest of the world.  Leading economists estimated that leaving the EU would see an immediate reduction of 8% in our cost of living. We are subsidising the poor countries of Europe, the former Soviet Bloc, but why should we?

Cameron has let the cat out of the bag however over the last few days, apart from the fat cat companies in London and the South East who have a vested interest in remaining in the UK, membership is all about power and control.  The powers that be are worried that Russia and Putin are gearing up for a new cold war with the Ukraine being the new front line.  They fear that if the UK were to leave, the EU would fragment and ultimately disintegrate.

The EU has shown itself to be a toothless dinosaur however, it is incapable of dealing with the migrant crisis let alone an onslaught from Russia.  It is the job of the United Nations and NATO to keep order in the world, the EU has no real power.  It has been allowed to grown into this huge wasteful and corrupt white elephant since its inception following the original Common Market agreements. It attempts to be all things to all people but that just isn't sustainable.

I vote we leave for sure and take back control of our own country.

It will be alright on the night as they say whatever happens. The military stuff is whoosh over my head. I know two things

- financial wizards predict aninterest rate rise here very soon
- If we leave I will be so glad to see the back end of ant writing on products

[mercury]

I'm afraid that with people like Gove, Fox and Duncan Smith in favour of leaving, I will have no alternative other than to vote to stay.

You weren't impressed then seeing Gove parading himself like a peacock in his lord chancellors ridiculous outfit on the news smiling and smirking


The man hasn't a legal bone in his body...how the hell did he get that job!!! Makes a mockery of politics.

[Alice Purjorick]

So when the referendum votes are counted and the majority wish to leave the EU there remains the stumbling block of it being only a referendum. ie not binding in any way. Parliament being the guvnor and all that can just ignore the vote and stay in the EU, effectively, as always, telling the proles to go sit on a sharp stick.

[jassi]

There have been some conflicting views on this, but Cameron said, only a few days ago, that if the public voted to leave, then he would start that process immediately. No mention of a Commons vote.
No doubt he will back-track if it suits him.

[Angelo222]

This absolutely proves what I said on another thread - you can't take online polls or comments as a serious reflection of the general public's opinion on anything.

Why not?  This was a snap poll of over1000 members of the general public who were free to vote either way.  It's not as if admin telephoned 1000 people previously recorded on some list like the pollsters do.

The much higher dissent just goes to show that the vested interest crowd who persistently claim a 50/50 split are manipulating the results.

[Angelo222]

So when the referendum votes are counted and the majority wish to leave the EU there remains the stumbling block of it being only a referendum. ie not binding in any way. Parliament being the guvnor and all that can just ignore the vote and stay in the EU, effectively, as always, telling the proles to go sit on a sharp stick.

I don't think so Alice, the referendum will stand whatever the result.  If the people vote to leave the EU then Cameron and Osborne will have to go too.

I can't see the government backtracking but I can see it entrenched in trouble.  Boris could very well come out of this as the new Tory leader.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I really can't stand Tory no camp IDS and Shove a Gove. But for me this isn't about party political politics. This is about My country and Me having some kind of say in it's management. There are a great many people in this country who remember the 'common market ' as what we signed up to, what we got was a bum deal,  fisheries policies, farming legislation's all  not in  our interest. AND these people all have a vote!

I recall an essay I wrote 9 years ago, claiming the EU would lead us to civil unrest in the near future ( Bliars government policies), how forced multiculturalism is not in the best interest of any country in the west, and indeed would see the rise in National socialism (return of the Nazis) and all the horrors that entails. I was laughed and jeered.  Well, look where we all are now.

With online shopping and global markets to tap into, and our learned self sufficiency in food production we can go  it alone...wow we did it before, plus we have the Camen Islands for those who still don't have the stomach to pay tax to create community wealth.
I will vote to leave for a whole lot of reasons.

[Angelo222]

I really can't stand Tory no camp IDS and Shove a Gove. But for me this isn't about party political politics. This is about My country and Me having some kind of say in it's management. There are a great many people in this country who remember the 'common market ' as what we signed up to, what we got was a bum deal,  fisheries policies, farming legislation's all  not in  our interest. AND these people all have a vote!

I recall an essay I wrote 9 years ago, claiming the EU would lead us to civil unrest in the near future ( Bliars government policies), how forced multiculturalism is not in the best interest of any country in the west, and indeed would see the rise in National socialism (return of the Nazis) and all the horrors that entails. I was laughed and jeered.  Well, look where we all are now.

With online shopping and global markets to tap into, and our learned self sufficiency in food production we can go  it alone...wow we did it before, plus we have the Camen Islands for those who still don't have the stomach to pay tax to create community wealth.
I will vote to leave for a whole lot of reasons.

I agree.  What so many people don't realise is that we have been fed the European 'one size fits all' mantra for so long that we are unable to think as a country any more.  The EU needs the UK much more than we need them.  We sell them a mere 9% of our GDP with the lions share of 91% being sold to countries outside the EU.

When we exit the EU manufacturers all over Europe who have a huge vested interest in selling to us can be forced to discount their wares. The ball will then be at out feet!

We can negotiate the deals we want and on our terms.

[John]

I agree.  What so many people don't realise is that we have been fed the European 'one size fits all' mantra for so long that we are unable to think as a country any more.  The EU needs the UK much more than we need them.  We sell them a mere 9% of our GDP with the lions share of 91% being sold to countries outside the EU.

When we exit the EU manufacturers all over Europe who have a huge vested interest in selling to us can be forced to discount their wares. The ball will then be at out feet!

We can negotiate the deals we want and on our terms.

You only need to look at the number of new cars being brought into the UK from France, Germany and Spain.  Manufacturers like Renault, Peugeot, Citroen, Seat, Mercedes, BMW and Ford have a lot at stake in being able to flog their wares to British buyers.  For far too long has the EU dictated price and what we can or cannot buy.  Leaving the EU would strengthen our bargaining powers and enable us to strike our own trade deals with these manufacturers and on our terms.  No longer would the UK be subjected to customs tariff barriers which make everything so much more expensive.