UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => The case of 3-year-old Mikaeel Kular found dead in a Kirkcaldy wood. => Topic started by: Mr Moderator on January 20, 2014, 06:16:51 AM
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(http://i.imgur.com/Aknf1rx.png)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2542368/Body-young-boy-recovered-Fife-one-person-detained-police-searching-missing-toddler-Mikaeel-Kular.html
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It is being revealed that there seems to be a history of care issues pertaining to family Kular.
Fife social services appear to have had considerable involvement with the family in the years prior to Mikaeel's death, and with Mikaeel in particular.
It appears on the face of it that these concerns were not followed through upon the family's relocation to Edinburgh, though perhaps more information will become available on this in time.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10585878/Mikaeel-Kular-was-put-into-foster-care-.html
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Reading between the lines there appears to have been a problem in transferring the social work files from Fife Council to City of Edinburgh Council. It could be that the family simply went of the radar when they moved to Edinburgh last summer.
Frankly, I don't know how she coped with five youngsters on her own and carry on a beautician business at the same time?? I will add that she is alleged to be pregnant again! Could this and the murder of her friend have pushed her over the edge?
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Reading between the lines there appears to have been a problem in transferring the social work files from Fife Council to City of Edinburgh Council. It could be that the family simply went of the radar when they moved to Edinburgh last summer.
Frankly, I don't know how she coped with five youngsters on her own and carry on a beautician business at the same time?? I will add that she is alleged to be pregnant again! Could this and the murder of her friend have pushed her over the edge?
You can't blame the social workers when someone up-sticks and moves without registering elsewhere. Seems strange to have moved away from her family support network in Kirkcaldy, maybe she moved to Edinburgh to get more work.
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Reading between the lines there appears to have been a problem in transferring the social work files from Fife Council to City of Edinburgh Council. It could be that the family simply went of the radar when they moved to Edinburgh last summer.
Frankly, I don't know how she coped with five youngsters on her own and carry on a beautician business at the same time?? I will add that she is alleged to be pregnant again! Could this and the murder of her friend have pushed her over the edge?
It seems a bit strange that files would not be transferred as a matter of course from one council to another with regard to such a serious matter. Perhaps CPN or someone involved in social work can tell us what the usual procedures might be and where things might have gone awry this time.
Regarding the ability to cope, I know a number of mothers with large families who also work, and they do manage it. Some if not all of the children are at school for several hours a day, and often there is extended family support. These things seemed to be in place here. On the face of it, Mikaeel's mother presumably would not have opted to have a sixth child - if that information is correct - if she did not feel able to cope with five. That being said, she was clearly struggling.
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You can't blame the social workers when someone up-sticks and moves without registering elsewhere. Seems strange to have moved away from her family support network in Kirkcaldy, maybe she moved to Edinburgh to get more work.
Is it as straightforward as that, John? Surely in a case where a child's welfare was being severely compromised, authorities would want to keep in regular contact with the family and would note the fact that the they had disappeared from the radar. Wouldn't that in itself be a cause for concern?
It is possible that the mother moved to Edinburgh for a job - or for a less innocent reason.
It seems significant to me that this woman appeared to have taken a very different direction in life from her middle-class, educated parents, as had the guy she was having a relationship with before he was killed earlier this year. He was the son of a prominent religious community leader (muslim) at the large mosque in Edinburgh, yet seemed to frequent the pubs and clubs and worse, eventually being shot to death in gang warfare.
Both of them seemed to have taken a bad turn in life. She presents herself on social media as quite a flippant, irresponsible person despite all the pictures of the kids. Something must have happened in her life that set it on such a different and unfortunate course.
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Another possibility is that she left for Edinburgh in order to avoid social services in Fife.
It seems odd that she chose to leave the place where she had family support and assistance, with a growing family of five children in tow, including two small toddlers who were clearly objects of burden for her.
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Maybe she moved because she wanted a new start. Who knows....is it important really?
The problems with Mikaeel were in Fife, she had been moved 18 months hadnt she and no one is coming forward saying they thought there was a problem with the boy. He seemed happy in photos.
We have to wait now and see what transpires.
I wonder more likely if she had PND and triggered combination of PTSD when her fella died. Dont forget the twins were 3, so she could still be suffering with PND.
PND is can be a silent killer.............
Something trigger her to harm her boy....it will be more likely to do with her head.
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You can't blame the social workers when someone up-sticks and moves without registering elsewhere. Seems strange to have moved away from her family support network in Kirkcaldy, maybe she moved to Edinburgh to get more work.
And as soon as she moved she got involved with a drug dealer who even took her kids to school?
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And as soon as she moved she got involved with a drug dealer who even took her kids to school?
Yes, odd. Perhaps she knew him before and moved to Edinburgh to be closer to him?
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How much do you get from the State per month when you have 5, 6 kids ?
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How much do you get from the State per month when you have 5, 6 kids ?
I am out of date when it comes to the actual figures Anne, but it is certainly the case that with 5 or 6 children she would not be in an easy position whether in or out of work.
Benefits and maternity / employment laws for mothers with young children are nothing like they are in France. Very little government support and legislation on these matters relative to many other European countries. More like the American system. On top of that, the cost of childcare for a working woman can be exceptionally high.
A mother might well be marginally better off living on benefits under those circumstances, though the benefits are minimal compared to the cost of living.
She was living in a government apartment, possibly with a rent reduction - it's hard to say. She does seem to have been employed.
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Why would she move from a house with a garden to a flat in a bad end of a city?
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Why would she move from a house with a garden to a flat in a bad end of a city?
Maybe she had a fall out with her family?
I had the weirdest dream last night well nightmare actually. She had a hidden gun from her ex boyfriend in the house and her son found it and was shot. OMG it was so real I woke up in a sweat. It shows you how these cases can effect us doesnt it. Poor little soul.xx
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Maybe she had a fall out with her family?
I had the weirdest dream last night well nightmare actually. She had a hidden gun from her ex boyfriend in the house and her son found it and was shot. OMG it was so real I woke up in a sweat. It shows you how these cases can effect us doesnt it. Poor little soul.xx
it isn't out of the question that a gun was involved..perhaps accidentally
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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mikaeel-kular-tragedy-ex-lover-murder-3053040
Mikaeel Kular death: Ex-lover of murder charge mum denies being father of tragic three-year-old
23 Jan 2014 07:23
THE girlfriend of Hamza Naji confirmed his former relationship with Rosdeep Kular - but has denied rumours he was Mikaeel's dad.
Mikaeel's mother Rosdeep was dating Hamza Naji in 2010Mikaeel's mother Rosdeep was dating Hamza Naji in 2010
PA Wire
THE ex-lover of murder charge mum Rosdeep Kular has denied being the dad of tragic Mikaeel.
Hamza Naji dated Kular in 2010 – the same year her son was born.
On Monday, she was charged with murdering Mikaeel, three, and of trying to pervert the course of justice.
Kular’s Facebook page shows numerous pictures of her with Hamza – fuelling speculation that he was Mikaeel’s natural dad.
Hamza’s girlfriend Courtney Morren yesterday confirmed his former relationship with 33-year-old Kular.
But she denied rumours he was the dead boy’s father.
Speaking at her Edinburgh home, the 18-year-old said: “Yes, Hamza was in a relationship with Rosdeep but it started after her son was born and they’d split up long before I met him (Hamza).
“He is definitely not Mikaeel’s dad. He’s never even met Mikaeel, so he can’t really comment about what’s happened.
“Hamza is my boyfriend and we’ve never discussed his previous relationships because they’re in the past – they’re not relevant.
“This has got nothing to do with us.”
Mikaeel and his twin sister Ashika were born on May 7, 2010, but their father is not named on their birth certificates.
Kular has three other children to Nigerian taxi driver Omotoso Adekunle Adekoya, 35, whom she married in Glenrothes in July 2004.
They have two sons – Tarun, nine, and David, seven – and a five-year-old daughter, Renuka.
But the twins’ father’s identity remains a mystery and it is understood he never even met Mikaeel.
Photographs taken in July 2010 show Kular larking around on nights out with Hamaz.
Hamaz, who is understood to be in his early 20s, could not be contacted for comment yesterday.
Courtney insisted: “He doesn’t want to speak about this.”
Mikaeel was reported missing from his bed in Ferry Gait Crescent, Edinburgh, last Thursday morning. His disappearance sparked a huge search, with hundreds of local residents helping police.
Mikaeel’s body was found in woodland behind his aunt’s house in Kirkcaldy just before midnight on Friday.
On Monday, Kular appeared in court charged with her son’s murder and attempting to defeat the ends of justice. She was remanded in custody.
Tomorrow, 1000 people are expected to line the banks of the Firth of Forth in Edinburgh and Fife for a balloon tribute to the little boy.
The memorial has been arranged by friends Hayley Clements and Cara Cameron as a “send-off for a beautiful boy taken too soon”.
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What is the point of that stupid article?
If they dated in 2010 its impossible she bore her son to him in may 2010
The police have already spoken to the boys father so it is known who he actually is!
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Maybe she had a fall out with her family?
I had the weirdest dream last night well nightmare actually. She had a hidden gun from her ex boyfriend in the house and her son found it and was shot. OMG it was so real I woke up in a sweat. It shows you how these cases can effect us doesnt it. Poor little soul.xx
That's awful, columbo. Must have been very distressing.
I agree with davel that something like that could have been involved. She didn't exactly keep company with the cream of society.
However I do think that whatever happened, she must have been at the very centre of it. I'm not sure that anyone else could have been directly involved. She has been charged with defeating the ends of justice which theoretically could mean that she was attempting to protect someone other than herself, but looking at the course of events it looks more like she was covering herself. And no-one else has been charged.
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Her next court appearance is in 4 days. I wonder if the results of the autopsy would be known then?
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Why would she move from a house with a garden to a flat in a bad end of a city?
Good question.
I suspect there was something pushing her away from Fife ( no pun intended).
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What is the point of that stupid article?
If they dated in 2010 its impossible she bore her son to him in may 2010
The police have already spoken to the boys father so it is known who he actually is!
Seconded. Just nasty, pointless digging that won't help anyone.
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Good question.
I suspect there was something pushing her away from Fife ( no pun intended).
I thought it was just work related.. she could have got much more work in Edinburgh
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I thought it was just work related.. she could have got much more work in Edinburgh
It must have been cramped in that small bungalow in Kirkcaldy what with five small children, she probably wanted her own space and an apartment in Edinburgh was just the ticket.
I must say this though. Both her parents are medical doctors and her father owns a nursing home in Anstruther on the Fife coast. I find it bizarre that social services had to intervene and foster out Mikaeel for his 'safety'. I find the entire situation very disturbing, somebody let that little lad down and in a very big way.
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It must have been cramped in that small bungalow in Kirkcaldy what with five small children, she probably wanted her own space and an apartment in Edinburgh was just the ticket.
I must say this though. Both her parents are medical doctors and her father owns a nursing home in Anstruther on the Fife coast. I find it bizarre that social services had to intervene and foster out Mikaeel for his 'safety'. I find the entire situation very disturbing, somebody let that little lad down and in a very big way.
Just how big was the flat, with no garden?
Sounds to me as though she was more interested in the night life.
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Just how big was the flat, with no garden?
Sounds to me as though she was more interested in the night life.
Those flats are very small. Council houses were never big and the new builds are even smaller.
The house in Kirkcaldy wasn't enormous but it was certainly much more roomy than the flat.
It seems that the house is owned by her parents and sister. Perhaps she had a falling-out with them over her lifestyle?
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It must have been cramped in that small bungalow in Kirkcaldy what with five small children, she probably wanted her own space and an apartment in Edinburgh was just the ticket.
I must say this though. Both her parents are medical doctors and her father owns a nursing home in Anstruther on the Fife coast. I find it bizarre that social services had to intervene and foster out Mikaeel for his 'safety'. I find the entire situation very disturbing, somebody let that little lad down and in a very big way.
The foster situation is indeed perplexing and concerning.
And why only Mikaeel? What about his twin? Was there something about her relationship with him in particular that was a source of strain for his mother?
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It must have been cramped in that small bungalow in Kirkcaldy what with five small children, she probably wanted her own space and an apartment in Edinburgh was just the ticket.
I must say this though. Both her parents are medical doctors and her father owns a nursing home in Anstruther on the Fife coast. I find it bizarre that social services had to intervene and foster out Mikaeel for his 'safety'. I find the entire situation very disturbing, somebody let that little lad down and in a very big way.
This is not RK's father. It is her step father. Her own father died at age of 43 when RK was a teenager.
Her mother remarried twice after that and this is her third husband.
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The foster situation is indeed perplexing and concerning.
And why only Mikaeel? What about his twin? Was there something about her relationship with him in particular that was a source of strain for his mother?
I think both twins were in care and older children were with their dad.
Since the twin's father wasn't involved in their life they went into care. This is my understanding of the situation.
Looking at it now, the older three will probably be again with their dad but the youngest baby Ashika, Mikaeel's twin will be the the one in care again :(
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I think both twins were in care and older children were with their dad.
Since the twin's father wasn't involved in their life they went into care. This is my understanding of the situation.
Looking at it now, the older three will probably be again with their dad but the youngest baby Ashika, Mikaeel's twin will be the the one in care again :(
So this was in Fife? But the father of the older three was living in Edinburgh, wasn't he?
Very sad about the other little twin. Perhaps his aunt will look after him.
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So this was in Fife? But the father of the older three was living in Edinburgh, wasn't he?
Very sad about the other little twin. Perhaps his aunt will look after him.
Yes, the father of the first three kids lives in Edinburgh.
So, maybe it was his request for her to bring the kids closer to him.
Mikaeel's twin is a little girl, not a boy.
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Yes, the father of the first three kids lives in Edinburgh.
So, maybe it was his request for her to bring the kids closer to him.
Mikaeel's twin is a little girl, not a boy.
Yes, that's right, I wrote it wrong. So sad for a person to lose a twin - must be a terrible thing in circumstances like this. Who knows what that poor child is going through, and will go through later in life when she begins to understand more about what actually happened. At least she is too young to understand details now, though she is probably in a lot of pain. Poor little thing.
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This is not RK's father. It is her step father. Her own father died at age of 43 when RK was a teenager.
Her mother remarried twice after that and this is her third husband.
Invariably, losing a parent can have a profound effect on a young impressionable teenager. We will never know but that in itself could have sent her into a downward spiral.
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Invariably, losing a parent can have a profound effect on a young impressionable teenager. We will never know but that in itself could have sent her into a downward spiral.
I inadvertently lost my mother when I was seven. But I can't say I ever had any desire to harm any of my children. Quite the opposite in fact.
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I inadvertently lost my mother when I was seven. But I can't say I ever had any desire to harm any of my children. Quite the opposite in fact.
its amazing how much sympathy is being shown to someone who has been charged with murdering their child compared to parents who have never even been arrested
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its amazing how much sympathy is being shown to someone who has been charged with murdering their child compared to parents who have never even been arrested
It is beyond me, Davel. Although at the moment I can only feel sorry for the terrible place she must be in.
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We actually don't know if Rosdeep Kular harmed her child.
She hasn't been convicted.
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We actually don't know if Rosdeep Kular harmed her child.
She hasn't been convicted.
I haven't condemned her ...
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I haven't condemned her ...
I think I might have done. But then I don't understand. Why the need to hurt in the first place?
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We actually don't know if Rosdeep Kular harmed her child.
She hasn't been convicted.
...seems the neighbours have no doubt and in fact announced this even before the court appearance.
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...seems the neighbours have no doubt and in fact announced this even before the court appearance.
Which neighbours?
The ones who said there was a hooded individual seen running away and they have also seen an argument on the stairs.
And that the strange appearing person rang their buzzer the Wednesday night.
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...seems the neighbours have no doubt and in fact announced this even before the court appearance.
Announced what, John? They knew that she was abusing this child, and did nothing about it?
I really don't think I can cope with another case of Lessons to be Learned.
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You can't blame the social workers when someone up-sticks and moves without registering elsewhere. Seems strange to have moved away from her family support network in Kirkcaldy, maybe she moved to Edinburgh to get more work.
These are exactly my feelings also.
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These are exactly my feelings also.
Maybe she moved because she didn't want her family to know what she was doing to that chid.