Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.

[Brietta]

Do http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm and http://genreith.de/pj-archiving-2008.pdf have the same words?

I've not checked every single word but I think both match up although it seems the translators may be different.

[Robittybob1]

I've not checked every single word but I think both match up although it seems the translators may be different.

Both reference Astro as the translator.  (Quick check only).

[Brietta]

Both reference Astro as the translator.  (Quick check only).

Processos Vol XVII Pages 4599 to 4622
With thanks to Ines
 
(Part B of the Archiving Dispatch)
 
 
B – Concrete Analysis
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

[Brietta]

Is this part of it Brietta? (Scroll down for English)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/OUSTROS_APENSOS_11_VOLUMES.htm

I've not seen that before, Misty.
If I've been on that page before I've not bothered to scroll down as far as the English script.  Will need to read it.

[faithlilly]

I've not seen that before, Misty.
If I've been on that page before I've not bothered to scroll down as far as the English script.  Will need to read it.

So no mystery then?

[Alice Purjorick]

So no mystery then?

Nah!
This bit was interesting:
NOTE:
This is the second report demanded to a team of independent analysts from the Central Department of Criminal Investigation (Central Division of Information Analysis - PJ), dated from February 2008.
The references to the annexes and pages of the files were kept, just in order to allow anyone to ask for some particular document(s) to be translated ' I would do them ALL if I had the time, but I fear I won't be able to, so I'll be happy to go over those that you consider more interesting, if the request is rationally founded

Also the reference to 3004 pages, which some will have you believe they have read in their entirety.
And another thing! The backwoods hicksville folk were only using US Military Software for the analysis.

[Brietta]

So no mystery then?

Unless you can tell me why Part B of the Archiving Dispatch was not translated along with the rest of it ... there is still a mystery in my opinion.

I've not read to the end of Misty's link yet ... but it doesn't appear to include the answer to my question. 

[Robittybob1]

Unless you can tell me why Part B of the Archiving Dispatch was not translated along with the rest of it ... there is still a mystery in my opinion.

I've not read to the end of Misty's link yet ... but it doesn't appear to include the answer to my question.

Could it have just been missed off the to do list?

[Brietta]

Could it have just been missed off the to do list?

I wouldn't have thought so ... it was noted at the time that it would be translated later ... Quote B - Detailed Analysis [this section to be completed soon]. End Quote
Why would there be a delay isn't explained.
 
Interestingly the claim is made about those diligences carried out by the Policia Judiciaria when they arrived ...
Quote
Upon being contacted, the PJ’s intervention was immediate, they went to the scene (folios 02 onwards) where they undertook various inquiries aiming to establish the facts, a photographic report was made at the site (folios 12 – 23) as well releasing information about the disappearance, with the photograph and description of the girl, to the authorities as well as to the press, after obtaining authorisation from the Public Ministry (folios 32 – 33b and 459), a fingerprint inspection, which only enabled the collection of finger prints of those persons who had legitimate access to the apartment. The apartment was also examined by the Scientific Police Laboratory, which collected numerous traces and carried out continuous examinations, which did not lead to the full clarification of the events. End quote
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

Seems to contradict the perceived wisdom just a bit don't you think?

[Robittybob1]

I wouldn't have thought so ... it was noted at the time that it would be translated later ... Quote B - Detailed Analysis [this section to be completed soon]. End Quote
Why would there be a delay isn't explained.
 
Interestingly the claim is made about those diligences carried out by the Policia Judiciaria when they arrived ...
Quote
Upon being contacted, the PJ’s intervention was immediate, they went to the scene (folios 02 onwards) where they undertook various inquiries aiming to establish the facts, a photographic report was made at the site (folios 12 – 23) as well releasing information about the disappearance, with the photograph and description of the girl, to the authorities as well as to the press, after obtaining authorisation from the Public Ministry (folios 32 – 33b and 459), a fingerprint inspection, which only enabled the collection of finger prints of those persons who had legitimate access to the apartment. The apartment was also examined by the Scientific Police Laboratory, which collected numerous traces and carried out continuous examinations, which did not lead to the full clarification of the events. End quote
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

Seems to contradict the perceived wisdom just a bit don't you think?

But weren't the exact same words translated in the report to Lowe etc.?  So it was translated but the translated portion had not been added back in the Archiving Report.  It seems more like an oversight rather than anything else.

[G-Unit]

I wouldn't have thought so ... it was noted at the time that it would be translated later ... Quote B - Detailed Analysis [this section to be completed soon]. End Quote
Why would there be a delay isn't explained.
 
Interestingly the claim is made about those diligences carried out by the Policia Judiciaria when they arrived ...
Quote
Upon being contacted, the PJ’s intervention was immediate, they went to the scene (folios 02 onwards) where they undertook various inquiries aiming to establish the facts, a photographic report was made at the site (folios 12 – 23) as well releasing information about the disappearance, with the photograph and description of the girl, to the authorities as well as to the press, after obtaining authorisation from the Public Ministry (folios 32 – 33b and 459), a fingerprint inspection, which only enabled the collection of finger prints of those persons who had legitimate access to the apartment. The apartment was also examined by the Scientific Police Laboratory, which collected numerous traces and carried out continuous examinations, which did not lead to the full clarification of the events. End quote
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

Seems to contradict the perceived wisdom just a bit don't you think?

What perceived wisdom is being contradicted?

[Brietta]

Even if there had been no long term effect on the McCann family ... in the short term the pain caused by the difficulty of being officially gagged while the trial by media was in full cry against them, must have been immense.

In evidence, Kate McCanns told the Leveson inquiry; " ... I know we'll come on to headlines, but "Corpse in the car"; I don't know how many times I read "Body fluids in the car". And it gets repeated that often, it becomes fact. There were no body fluids. We desperately wanted to shout out "It's not true, it's not true"

" We were desperately shouting out internally "Please stop, what are you doing? We're trying to find our daughter and you're stopping our chances of finding her".

The press were free to print whatever calumny sold papers and without the guidance from the police about what might be helpful in finding Madeleine and what might be inappropriate, they ran with whatever snippets of information and misinformation they could find about her parents instead.

They were left unprotected by the authorities from the ensuing maelstrom and left unable to defend themselves as explained by Gerry McCann who expanded on Kate's evidence by adding; "The point being, which I alluded to earlier, is that we were told in no uncertain terms that if we disclosed anything publicly which we knew to be in the judicial file, ie the results which had been shown to us, which we knew were not what was being reported about DNA, then we were threatened with a two-year imprisonment for breaking judicial secrecy, so we were being tried by the media and unable to defend ourselves adequately."

Such a barrage of misinformation is hard to overcome particularly when it is perpetuated in book and social media right up until the present day ... why on earth can that ever be considered acceptable when the truth is to hand?
In my opinion the judicial secrecy law was an impediment to Madeleine's case but was used to benefit the work in progress of a case being made against her parents.

[G-Unit]

Even if there had been no long term effect on the McCann family ... in the short term the pain caused by the difficulty of being officially gagged while the trial by media was in full cry against them, must have been immense.

In evidence, Kate McCanns told the Leveson inquiry; " ... I know we'll come on to headlines, but "Corpse in the car"; I don't know how many times I read "Body fluids in the car". And it gets repeated that often, it becomes fact. There were no body fluids. We desperately wanted to shout out "It's not true, it's not true"

" We were desperately shouting out internally "Please stop, what are you doing? We're trying to find our daughter and you're stopping our chances of finding her".

The press were free to print whatever calumny sold papers and without the guidance from the police about what might be helpful in finding Madeleine and what might be inappropriate, they ran with whatever snippets of information and misinformation they could find about her parents instead.

They were left unprotected by the authorities from the ensuing maelstrom and left unable to defend themselves as explained by Gerry McCann who expanded on Kate's evidence by adding; "The point being, which I alluded to earlier, is that we were told in no uncertain terms that if we disclosed anything publicly which we knew to be in the judicial file, ie the results which had been shown to us, which we knew were not what was being reported about DNA, then we were threatened with a two-year imprisonment for breaking judicial secrecy, so we were being tried by the media and unable to defend ourselves adequately."

Such a barrage of misinformation is hard to overcome particularly when it is perpetuated in book and social media right up until the present day ... why on earth can that ever be considered acceptable when the truth is to hand?
In my opinion the judicial secrecy law was an impediment to Madeleine's case but was used to benefit the work in progress of a case being made against her parents.

Portugal has a different legal set-up than the UK which is their prerogative. Portuguese journalists wrote speculative stories with no identifiable sources. British journalists copied them even though they couldn't verify them.

When the British media were challenged about it their defence was that they believed the Portuguese journalists when they said they had official sources. The 'poor journalists' needed stories and neither the PJ nor LP would speak to them so it wasn't their fault, it was caused by the Portuguese judicial secrecy laws. I see that as an excuse, not a reason. They have printed many speculative stories about Operation Grange too, most of which are unconfirmed by the Met., so they have learned nothing.

Leaving aside their reasons, the McCanns decided to involve and use the British media to get their message across. When the stories weren't what they wanted they blamed Judicial secrecy for stopping them from defending themselves. I wonder just what it prevented them from saying? The story of the police offering Kate McCann a 'deal' got out. Did that breach judicial secrecy? It stopped the PJ from responding, apparently;

Due to legal restrictions on police under Portuguese law, they are unable to respond to the claims made by the McCanns.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6985454.stm

[Brietta]

Portugal has a different legal set-up than the UK which is their prerogative. Portuguese journalists wrote speculative stories with no identifiable sources. British journalists copied them even though they couldn't verify them.

When the British media were challenged about it their defence was that they believed the Portuguese journalists when they said they had official sources. The 'poor journalists' needed stories and neither the PJ nor LP would speak to them so it wasn't their fault, it was caused by the Portuguese judicial secrecy laws. I see that as an excuse, not a reason. They have printed many speculative stories about Operation Grange too, most of which are unconfirmed by the Met., so they have learned nothing.

Leaving aside their reasons, the McCanns decided to involve and use the British media to get their message across. When the stories weren't what they wanted they blamed Judicial secrecy for stopping them from defending themselves. I wonder just what it prevented them from saying? The story of the police offering Kate McCann a 'deal' got out. Did that breach judicial secrecy? It stopped the PJ from responding, apparently;

Due to legal restrictions on police under Portuguese law, they are unable to respond to the claims made by the McCanns.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6985454.stm

Gerry McCann's evidence to Leveson included the differentials between Portuguese and English law and the role of the media in Madeleine's case as a result ... in particular the Portuguese media.
I recommend you read it in its entirety as it rather makes a mockery of your post.

It is horses for courses.
British law is for the Brits.
Portuguese law is for the Portuguese.  Both are under constant review and both are subject to constant change as is appropriate in modern democracies. For example the secrecy law won't protect you in Portugal from the taxman.
http://theportugalnews.com/news/taxman-gains-full-bank-account-access/38624 


This thread concerns the impact Portuguese secrecy law had on Madeleine McCann's case and I think the published distortions in the Portuguese press really does rub it in that Portuguese secrecy law apparently applies to some more than others.

For example dated at 2007-11-12 Madeleine's case was being openly discussed in Portugal where one would have assumed Portuguese secrecy law might have had some relevance we have ...
Quote
Several friends of the McCanns who were in Praia da Luz when Madeleine disappeared asked to be heard again by the PJ to change the initial testimony. According to information from the newspaper El Mundo , cited by the DN these people asked not to be identified because of the "powerful lobby" surrounding the couple and that "truly frighten anyone," said the lawyer of one of the witnesses.

"My client is forced to be silent, which is what he can do to help the investigation. And I'm not talking about the secrecy that is required by Portuguese law, but the strange circumstances surrounding the case, "said the lawyer.

The caustic adds that his client asked to be heard again and "correct some details and discrepancies" that appeared in the statements made by the nine people in the restaurant that night. "My client does not want to blame or blame anyone, because this is the work of the police. He only wants to clarify the truth and does not care who will be harmed."
http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/maddie/divulgada-foto-do-quarto-de-madeleine

Have you ever written a post about "discrepancies"?

Many have ... and continue to do so without being able identify them. 

Very much as your post on the McCanns and the media reflects the perceived wisdom (since you asked) of a time when opinions were being formed by all sorts of misinformation; which I would have imagined must have been breaking the law regarding active investigations; at a time when it had been impressed on the victims of the unfounded allegations, they faced two years in a Portuguese jail if they had opened their mouths to defend themselves.

[John]

There shouldn't have been any secrets in the first place.  This was a missing child enquiry and it was expected, in fact demanded, that the parents of said missing child should cooperate fully and totally with the police.  I would go further and say that the parents should have been at police headquarters every day urging the police on.  This never happened, the parents chose other activities including the well publicised jogging around the town.  Does anyone else find this odd?