Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.

[Erngath]

There shouldn't have been any secrets in the first place.  This was a missing child enquiry and it was expected, in fact demanded, that the parents of said missing child should cooperate fully and totally with the police.  I would go further and say that the parents should have been at police headquarters every day urging the police on.  This never happened, the parents chose other activities including the well publicised jogging around the town.  Does anyone else find this odd?

There shouldn't have been any secrets in the first place.  This was a missing child enquiry and it was expected, in fact demanded, that the parents of said missing child should cooperate fully and totally with the police.  I would go further and say that the parents should have been at police headquarters every day urging the police on.  This never happened, the parents chose other activities including the well publicised jogging around the town.  Does anyone else find this odd?

Would you expect the parents of a missing child in this country be at police headquarters every day to" urge the police on"?

[John]

Would you expect the parents of a missing child in this country be at police headquarters every day to" urge the police on"?

Without a shadow of a doubt I would expect at least one parent to be very closely involved with the day to day police activities. It seems the only time the McCanns went to the police station was when their attendance was requested.  Could it be that they were told to stay away?

[Erngath]

Without a shadow of a doubt.

Is that normal procedure in this country?
I cannot imagine it is.
To expect the parents to have to urge a police force to look for a missing child.
Really??

[Brietta]

Without a shadow of a doubt I would expect at least one parent to be very closely involved with the day to day police activities. It seems the only time the McCanns went to the police station was when their attendance was requested.  Could it be that they were told to stay away?

They had weekly meetings with the Portuguese police until the dogs' inspection.  I think it was in MADELEINE that Kate remarked on the change in attitude which occurred after that.

[G-Unit]

Gerry McCann's evidence to Leveson included the differentials between Portuguese and English law and the role of the media in Madeleine's case as a result ... in particular the Portuguese media.
I recommend you read it in its entirety as it rather makes a mockery of your post.

It is horses for courses.
British law is for the Brits.
Portuguese law is for the Portuguese.  Both are under constant review and both are subject to constant change as is appropriate in modern democracies. For example the secrecy law won't protect you in Portugal from the taxman.
http://theportugalnews.com/news/taxman-gains-full-bank-account-access/38624 


This thread concerns the impact Portuguese secrecy law had on Madeleine McCann's case and I think the published distortions in the Portuguese press really does rub it in that Portuguese secrecy law apparently applies to some more than others.

For example dated at 2007-11-12 Madeleine's case was being openly discussed in Portugal where one would have assumed Portuguese secrecy law might have had some relevance we have ...
Quote
Several friends of the McCanns who were in Praia da Luz when Madeleine disappeared asked to be heard again by the PJ to change the initial testimony. According to information from the newspaper El Mundo , cited by the DN these people asked not to be identified because of the "powerful lobby" surrounding the couple and that "truly frighten anyone," said the lawyer of one of the witnesses.

"My client is forced to be silent, which is what he can do to help the investigation. And I'm not talking about the secrecy that is required by Portuguese law, but the strange circumstances surrounding the case, "said the lawyer.

The caustic adds that his client asked to be heard again and "correct some details and discrepancies" that appeared in the statements made by the nine people in the restaurant that night. "My client does not want to blame or blame anyone, because this is the work of the police. He only wants to clarify the truth and does not care who will be harmed."
http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/maddie/divulgada-foto-do-quarto-de-madeleine

Have you ever written a post about "discrepancies"?

Many have ... and continue to do so without being able identify them. 

Very much as your post on the McCanns and the media reflects the perceived wisdom (since you asked) of a time when opinions were being formed by all sorts of misinformation; which I would have imagined must have been breaking the law regarding active investigations; at a time when it had been impressed on the victims of the unfounded allegations, they faced two years in a Portuguese jail if they had opened their mouths to defend themselves.

I'm not sure what your point is, sorry.

If a person is a victim of crime in another country the crime is investigated according to the customs and laws of that country, not the person's country of origin. The media in that country may operate differently than the media in the person's country of origin, but that's their (different) way of working.

Is there any report of the McCanns complaining officially to the Portuguese authorities about the alleged leaks from the PJ?

[Alice Purjorick]

Gerry McCann's evidence to Leveson included the differentials between Portuguese and English law and the role of the media in Madeleine's case as a result ... in particular the Portuguese media.
I recommend you read it in its entirety as it rather makes a mockery of your post.

It is horses for courses.
British law is for the Brits.
Portuguese law is for the Portuguese.  Both are under constant review and both are subject to constant change as is appropriate in modern democracies. For example the secrecy law won't protect you in Portugal from the taxman.
http://theportugalnews.com/news/taxman-gains-full-bank-account-access/38624 


This thread concerns the impact Portuguese secrecy law had on Madeleine McCann's case and I think the published distortions in the Portuguese press really does rub it in that Portuguese secrecy law apparently applies to some more than others.

For example dated at 2007-11-12 Madeleine's case was being openly discussed in Portugal where one would have assumed Portuguese secrecy law might have had some relevance we have ...
Quote
Several friends of the McCanns who were in Praia da Luz when Madeleine disappeared asked to be heard again by the PJ to change the initial testimony. According to information from the newspaper El Mundo , cited by the DN these people asked not to be identified because of the "powerful lobby" surrounding the couple and that "truly frighten anyone," said the lawyer of one of the witnesses.

"My client is forced to be silent, which is what he can do to help the investigation. And I'm not talking about the secrecy that is required by Portuguese law, but the strange circumstances surrounding the case, "said the lawyer.

The caustic adds that his client asked to be heard again and "correct some details and discrepancies" that appeared in the statements made by the nine people in the restaurant that night. "My client does not want to blame or blame anyone, because this is the work of the police. He only wants to clarify the truth and does not care who will be harmed."
http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/maddie/divulgada-foto-do-quarto-de-madeleine

Have you ever written a post about "discrepancies"?

Many have ... and continue to do so without being able identify them. 

Very much as your post on the McCanns and the media reflects the perceived wisdom (since you asked) of a time when opinions were being formed by all sorts of misinformation; which I would have imagined must have been breaking the law regarding active investigations; at a time when it had been impressed on the victims of the unfounded allegations, they faced two years in a Portuguese jail if they had opened their mouths to defend themselves.

Bump: Post #19.

[Brietta]

Would you expect the parents of a missing child in this country be at police headquarters every day to" urge the police on"?

I don't think it would ever be necessary in this country, Erngath ... but things are different in Portugal it would seem.

According to Colin Sutton ...

5 Lack of information released to public from Portuguese police

“There was no publicising the case from the local police, which is unheard of back home.

“The public assistance in a case like Madeleine’s would have been huge because of the emotive subject - a missing three-year-old girl. It defies belief that they did not publish e-fits once they had them.

“Their lack of PR explains why the McCanns were so pro-active on that front. They were trying to fill the vacuum.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/6-errors-madeleine-mccann-detectives-10272590


Therefore the McCanns were obliged to fend for themselves in a way unheard of for us in Britain who are used to the police controlling every aspect of an investigation ... in particular if the case involves a missing child.

The McCanns had to play catch up for publicity which the police rightly should have generated in the golden hour.

They felt they had to employ private detectives to carry out investigating what might have happened to their missing child.

Rarely if not unheard of in Britain,  because the police do it ... so why is it the McCanns who are on the receiving end of criticism for finding themselves in the situation in Portugal where the police apparently don't?

[G-Unit]

Without a shadow of a doubt I would expect at least one parent to be very closely involved with the day to day police activities. It seems the only time the McCanns went to the police station was when their attendance was requested.  Could it be that they were told to stay away?

In the UK the Police Liaison Officer (s) have a very important role. The victims can ring them at any time for information or reassurance. That doesn't mean they always answer the phone or that they will answer your questions in practice, however.

The Portuguese police can cite judicial secrecy to keep people from nagging detectives, the British police can tell people to talk to their Liaison officer. In both cases detectives are protected so they can get on with whatever they are doing.

[Erngath]

I don't think it would ever be necessary in this country, Erngath ... but things are different in Portugal it would seem.

According to Colin Sutton ...

5 Lack of information released to public from Portuguese police

“There was no publicising the case from the local police, which is unheard of back home.

“The public assistance in a case like Madeleine’s would have been huge because of the emotive subject - a missing three-year-old girl. It defies belief that they did not publish e-fits once they had them.

“Their lack of PR explains why the McCanns were so pro-active on that front. They were trying to fill the vacuum.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/6-errors-madeleine-mccann-detectives-10272590


Therefore the McCanns were obliged to fend for themselves in a way unheard of for us in Britain who are used to the police controlling every aspect of an investigation ... in particular if the case involves a missing child.

The McCanns had to play catch up for publicity which the police rightly should have generated in the golden hour.

They felt they had to employ private detectives to carry out investigating what might have happened to their missing child.

Rarely if not unheard of in Britain,  because the police do it ... so why is it the McCanns who are on the receiving end of criticism for finding themselves in the situation in Portugal where the police apparently don't?

Of course you are correct.
It would not happen here.
The McCanns were in a foreign country with different laws, different police procedures or lack of the police procedures one would expect here in the case of a missing child.
To be honest the only way to answer your final question is that they, the McCanns are criticized for whatever they do or don't do
.

[Benice]

There shouldn't have been any secrets in the first place.  This was a missing child enquiry and it was expected, in fact demanded, that the parents of said missing child should cooperate fully and totally with the police. I would go further and say that the parents should have been at police headquarters every day urging the police on.  This never happened, the parents chose other activities including the well publicised jogging around the town.  Does anyone else find this odd?

They had Family Liaison Officers to do that.

IIRC they were also told to ring the PJ at any time, but whenever they did they were fobbed off and told that everything that could be done was being done.   

Why anyone would find their jogging odd I have no idea.   Did you expect them to permanently remain cooped up behind closed doors?   Jogging is good for you mentally and physically.  I would expect those counselling them to encourage exactly that kind of physical exercise.

IMO the PJ would be highly insulted if the impression was given that they required to be checked up on and encouraged to do their job properly on a daily basis by a couple of foreign civilians. 

The only time Kate did not co-operate fully was when it became clear that the PJ  intended to pin the crime on her.    I find it unbelievably odd that anyone would expect her to actively help them to arrest her for a crime that she knew she had not committed.  That's just crazy.

AIMHO

[Brietta]

I'm not sure what your point is, sorry.

If a person is a victim of crime in another country the crime is investigated according to the customs and laws of that country, not the person's country of origin. The media in that country may operate differently than the media in the person's country of origin, but that's their (different) way of working.

Is there any report of the McCanns complaining officially to the Portuguese authorities about the alleged leaks from the PJ?

Portuguese police leaks are 'shameless smears' to discredit us, say McCanns
By VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 12:00 12 April 2008

Kate and Gerry McCann yesterday accused Portuguese police of using 'shameless smears' against them.

They demanded a judicial inquiry and called on Portugal's justice minister to hunt down the source who leaked their official police statements to the media.

They want the country's police to investigate how the statements - given in the immediate aftermath of their daughter Madeleine's disappearance on May 3 last year - came to be leaked to a Spanish television channel.

Police in the couple's home county of Leicestershire have been informed and MP Stephen Dorrell called on the Foreign Office to raise the matter with the Portuguese authorities.
Police in Portugal supposedly operate in total secrecy and officers, suspects and even witnesses face jail if they speak out about ongoing investigations.

But behind the scenes, officers have briefed selected journalists with a series of sensationalised claims about the 11-month hunt for Madeleine.

The McCanns have endured wild allegations that they could have drugged their children or even dumped Madeleine's body during a publicity visit to Spain.

But they are especially furious about the timing of the latest leak, which derailed a planned trip to the European Parliament to call for an improved alert system for missing children.

The couple met advisers last night to discuss their response to the leak of the statements - in which it was revealed that Madeleine, then three, and her brother Sean, then two, were left crying in their holiday apartment the night before Madeleine disappeared.
A friend of the family said they would not lash out against the police in public.

'They are furious,' he added. 'They are resigned to the fact that they cannot stop this from happening, but their anger hasn't gone away. It's just that revenge is a dish best served cold.'

Mr McCann's sister Philomena said: 'The person responsible must be tracked down and disciplined for this latest leak.
'Gerry and Kate are yet again being victimised by the Portuguese police in the hope that the information will undermine and discredit them in the public's opinion.
'Publicising information about them is obviously aimed at deflecting attention from the fact that the police have not made any breakthroughs in their investigation.'

The couple's spokesman Clarence Mitchell called for an end to the Portuguese police's series of 'smears' against the McCanns, who remain official suspects.

They have categorically denied any involvement in their daughter's disappearance.

Mr Mitchell said: 'It is brazen, it is shameless, it is cack-handed and it has got to stop.

'The Portuguese government must now get a grip on whatever element it is within the Portuguese police who has been responsible for these leaks, who is apparently doing it with impunity.

'Someone in the police doesn't want Kate and Gerry to widen the agenda for whatever reason.

'We know what they're up to - it's ridiculous and it must stop.'

He said the McCanns accepted they had made a huge mistake when they decided to leave their children alone in their Algarve holiday apartment while they ate dinner nearby with friends.
He said: 'They know that they got it wrong, they made a mistake and, boy, are they paying the price for that - in heartbreak and agony.'

The journalist who broke the story, Spanish crime reporter Nacho Abad, refused to reveal his sources or if the documents had come from a police officer.
But supporters of the McCanns said there were few other people who had access to the statements.

Mr Abad, of broadcaster Telecinco, said the timing of the leak was 'sheer coincidence' and not a deliberate attempt to cloud the McCanns' visit to Brussels.

He said it would be 'appalling' if police resources were wasted hunting for his source when they should be investigating Madeleine's disappearance.

'The McCanns can't be upset,' he added.
'So much speculation and so many lies have surrounded the Madeleine McCann case and we have told the truth.'

The row broke out as chief investigator Paulo Rebelo returned to Portugal for a crunch meeting with the public prosecutor who will decide if the McCanns will remain suspects.
Mr Rebelo had monitored British police interviews of the friends who were with the couple on the night Madeleine vanished - the so-called Tapas Seven.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559151/Portuguese-police-leaks-shameless-smears-discredit-say-McCanns.html

[Brietta]

Of course you are correct.
It would not happen here.
The McCanns were in a foreign country with different laws, different police procedures or lack of the police procedures one would expect here in the case of a missing child.
To be honest the only way to answer your final question is that they, the McCanns are criticized for whatever they do or don't do
.

I agree.

Such an attitude has to come from somewhere and it is my opinion the deliberate smearing of Madeleine McCann's parents at a time they were bound to silence by Portuguese law, but no-one else apparently was, is the main contributor to that.

What I truly find incredible is that it has been kept up for over ten years despite all of the original myths ~  from green lichen ~ to blue tennis bags ~ having been debunked a long time ago.

[Alice Purjorick]

Portuguese police leaks are 'shameless smears' to discredit us, say McCanns
By VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 12:00 12 April 2008

Kate and Gerry McCann yesterday accused Portuguese police of using 'shameless smears' against them.

They demanded a judicial inquiry and called on Portugal's justice minister to hunt down the source who leaked their official police statements to the media.

They want the country's police to investigate how the statements - given in the immediate aftermath of their daughter Madeleine's disappearance on May 3 last year - came to be leaked to a Spanish television channel.

Police in the couple's home county of Leicestershire have been informed and MP Stephen Dorrell called on the Foreign Office to raise the matter with the Portuguese authorities.
Police in Portugal supposedly operate in total secrecy and officers, suspects and even witnesses face jail if they speak out about ongoing investigations.

But behind the scenes, officers have briefed selected journalists with a series of sensationalised claims about the 11-month hunt for Madeleine.

The McCanns have endured wild allegations that they could have drugged their children or even dumped Madeleine's body during a publicity visit to Spain.

But they are especially furious about the timing of the latest leak, which derailed a planned trip to the European Parliament to call for an improved alert system for missing children.

The couple met advisers last night to discuss their response to the leak of the statements - in which it was revealed that Madeleine, then three, and her brother Sean, then two, were left crying in their holiday apartment the night before Madeleine disappeared.
A friend of the family said they would not lash out against the police in public.

'They are furious,' he added. 'They are resigned to the fact that they cannot stop this from happening, but their anger hasn't gone away. It's just that revenge is a dish best served cold.'

Mr McCann's sister Philomena said: 'The person responsible must be tracked down and disciplined for this latest leak.
'Gerry and Kate are yet again being victimised by the Portuguese police in the hope that the information will undermine and discredit them in the public's opinion.
'Publicising information about them is obviously aimed at deflecting attention from the fact that the police have not made any breakthroughs in their investigation.'

The couple's spokesman Clarence Mitchell called for an end to the Portuguese police's series of 'smears' against the McCanns, who remain official suspects.

They have categorically denied any involvement in their daughter's disappearance.

Mr Mitchell said: 'It is brazen, it is shameless, it is cack-handed and it has got to stop.

'The Portuguese government must now get a grip on whatever element it is within the Portuguese police who has been responsible for these leaks, who is apparently doing it with impunity.

'Someone in the police doesn't want Kate and Gerry to widen the agenda for whatever reason.

'We know what they're up to - it's ridiculous and it must stop.'

He said the McCanns accepted they had made a huge mistake when they decided to leave their children alone in their Algarve holiday apartment while they ate dinner nearby with friends.
He said: 'They know that they got it wrong, they made a mistake and, boy, are they paying the price for that - in heartbreak and agony.'

The journalist who broke the story, Spanish crime reporter Nacho Abad, refused to reveal his sources or if the documents had come from a police officer.
But supporters of the McCanns said there were few other people who had access to the statements.

Mr Abad, of broadcaster Telecinco, said the timing of the leak was 'sheer coincidence' and not a deliberate attempt to cloud the McCanns' visit to Brussels.

He said it would be 'appalling' if police resources were wasted hunting for his source when they should be investigating Madeleine's disappearance.

'The McCanns can't be upset,' he added.
'So much speculation and so many lies have surrounded the Madeleine McCann case and we have told the truth.'

The row broke out as chief investigator Paulo Rebelo returned to Portugal for a crunch meeting with the public prosecutor who will decide if the McCanns will remain suspects.
Mr Rebelo had monitored British police interviews of the friends who were with the couple on the night Madeleine vanished - the so-called Tapas Seven.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559151/Portuguese-police-leaks-shameless-smears-discredit-say-McCanns.html

So what was the result of the FCO raising the matter with the Portuguese government?
Do we know if it was raised even?

[Brietta]

So what was the result of the FCO raising the matter with the Portuguese government?
Do we know if it was raised even?

No idea at all.  Maybe it falls under the Portuguese judicial secrecy laws which are so important there that no-one appears to have noticed they were being infringed on a daily basis.

In my opinion, the leak about Madeleine's remark on the third illustrates at least two things ...

• contrary to popular belief Madeleine McCanns parents co-operated fully with the Policia Judiciaria ... otherwise we would never have heard about Madeleine's question to them ... they simply would not have passed it on
• it should have been possible to control the leaks from within the investigation ... Rebelo seems to have managed it, I don't know of another like this on his watch ... and whoever did it waited until he was out of the country before practising his or her Spanish

[John]

I don't think it would ever be necessary in this country, Erngath ... but things are different in Portugal it would seem.

According to Colin Sutton ...

5 Lack of information released to public from Portuguese police

“There was no publicising the case from the local police, which is unheard of back home.

“The public assistance in a case like Madeleine’s would have been huge because of the emotive subject - a missing three-year-old girl. It defies belief that they did not publish e-fits once they had them.

“Their lack of PR explains why the McCanns were so pro-active on that front. They were trying to fill the vacuum.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/6-errors-madeleine-mccann-detectives-10272590


Therefore the McCanns were obliged to fend for themselves in a way unheard of for us in Britain who are used to the police controlling every aspect of an investigation ... in particular if the case involves a missing child.

The McCanns had to play catch up for publicity which the police rightly should have generated in the golden hour.

They felt they had to employ private detectives to carry out investigating what might have happened to their missing child.

Rarely if not unheard of in Britain,  because the police do it ... so why is it the McCanns who are on the receiving end of criticism for finding themselves in the situation in Portugal where the police apparently don't?

If the McCanns were so concerned by the lack of information being provided to them then why did they not go down to Amaral's control room and get some?  Weekly meetings are an absolute joke, at least one parent should have been with the police almost daily.

Much has been made of Kate McCann's refusal to answer simple questions during her arguida interview.  She was within her legal right to do so but such behaviour has not brought her any Brownie points.  This was her child after all who had disappeared while supposedly under her parental supervision.  By refusing to answer those questions she attracted further suspicion and most definitely did the search for Madeleine no favours.