Amaral and the dogs

[Brietta]

If these dogs alerted to toilets/sewerage they would never be able to be used in houses.

Why?  The alert to whatever would have to be eliminated or corroborated whatever the source.  It was considered appropriate to use Keela to eliminate the presence of blood when Eddie alerted ... why only blood? ... why not a possible other source?

[G-Unit]

Why?  The alert to whatever would have to be eliminated or corroborated whatever the source.  It was considered appropriate to use Keela to eliminate the presence of blood when Eddie alerted ... why only blood? ... why not a possible other source?

Find a case where dogs alerted to toilets. As each house has at least one it shouldn't be too difficult.

[Carew]

You never said a truer word ... and is very likely why Judges and Juries prefer alerts to be accompanied by corroborative forensic or other evidence.

I know..............so attempts to hide the possibility that the dog alerted to the cadaver scent from the corpse of the missing person;....  amongst sea-bass, soiled nappies, pork products,  sundry bodily substances whether lavatorial, decayed, historical or living are a waste of effort, really.

[Brietta]

I know..............so attempts to hide the possibility that the dog alerted to the cadaver scent from the corpse of the missing person;....  amongst sea-bass, soiled nappies, pork products,  sundry bodily substances whether lavatorial, decayed, historical or living are a waste of effort, really.

In the absence of any proof of exactly what Eddie smelled ... I would say you are perfectly correct that all options remain open.

Don't know if there is any evidence that anyone stored sea bass or pig in the wardrobe ... but there is a toilet pedestal directly through the wall complete with waste pipe ... and the dog proven to alert to semen and blood will most definitely alert to urine and faeces.

[Carana]

Putrecine and cadaverine, both components of decomposition, are found in urine and faeces ... hardly surprising since both are waste products from the body.
Plumbing smells indiscernible to the human nose could be indicated by a cadaver dog 'on the job' ... pity no-one checked that situation out.   

I don't think there is a record of any inspections carried out in the founds of the building ... or if the lift mechanism was checked out.

I'm not convinced that Eddie would have reacted to simply toilet smells - otherwise he would presumably have reacted in the bathroom itself.

However, it's not impossible that the smell of something within his "training parameters" could be within such a void, if there is one.

[Carew]

Alert through a wall to next door?...........

Or anywhere possibly contaminated by 2 toddlers nappies, in that case................but not in the McCann bathroom or lavatory?

[sadie]

In the absence of any proof of exactly what Eddie smelled ... I would say you are perfectly correct that all options remain open.

Don't know if there is any evidence that anyone stored sea bass or pig in the wardrobe ... but there is a toilet pedestal directly through the wall complete with waste pipe ... and the dog proven to alert to semen and blood will most definitely alert to urine and faeces.

Have we forgotten that the grandparents of Tasmin Silence lived in 5A

Tasmin being the very observant little girl who was so helpful describing watchers at 5A

It is said that her grandpa died in hospital.



Wonder what happened to his clothes / slippers etc. 

Were they brought back from the undertakers / hospital to 5A?

[G-Unit]

In the absence of any proof of exactly what Eddie smelled ... I would say you are perfectly correct that all options remain open.

Don't know if there is any evidence that anyone stored sea bass or pig in the wardrobe ... but there is a toilet pedestal directly through the wall complete with waste pipe ... and the dog proven to alert to semen and blood will most definitely alert to urine and faeces.

I think you have discussed this previously with Pathfinder. the dogs don't alert to toilets.

[Carana]

Have we forgotten that the grandparents of Tasmin Silence lived in 5A

Tasmin being the very observant little girl who was so helpful describing watchers at 5A

It is said that her grandpa died in hospital.



Wonder what happened to his clothes / slippers etc. 

Were they brought back from the undertakers / hospital to 5A?

Aside from that, Sadie, the apartment went from being a residential one to a rented one. At the time of the disappearance, it was owned and rented out as a holiday let by an unrelated McCann. Some people buy all new furniture whereas others may try to find good deals in second-hand shops...

And without investigating and excluding all plausible explanations - which would be expensive to do in terms of resources - Eddie's alerts (bless him) mean little in the absence of physical evidence.

[Brietta]

I'm not convinced that Eddie would have reacted to simply toilet smells - otherwise he would presumably have reacted in the bathroom itself.

However, it's not impossible that the smell of something within his "training parameters" could be within such a void, if there is one.

In one of the other inspections he was interested enough in a corner of the room that the sideboard was moved to allow him access, although he was given no time to inspect.

One wonders if the bathroom was behind the adjoining wall.  It is he fact that cadaverine and putrecine are by products of human waste that brings the question to mind ... any residual smell through contamination has to be a consideration because I cannot see how the animal could be desensitised from reacting to those.

[Carew]

In one of the other inspections he was interested enough in a corner of the room that the sideboard was moved to allow him access, although he was given no time to inspect.

One wonders if the bathroom was behind the adjoining wall.  It is he fact that cadaverine and putrecine are by products of human waste that brings the question to mind ... any residual smell through contamination has to be a consideration because I cannot see how the animal could be desensitised from reacting to those.

With that stance.........what do you feel stops the animal reacting all over the place?

[Brietta]

With that stance.........what do you feel stops the animal reacting all over the place?

Do you suppose the dogs don't know when they are working and when they are not?  For example did Eddie obey a command to stop woofing or did he keep on woofing despite being stood down?

[Carew]

Do you suppose the dogs don't know when they are working and when they are not?  For example did Eddie obey a command to stop woofing or did he keep on woofing despite being stood down?

O.K............put it this way........When in "work mode" what stops the dog reacting to lavatories/bathrooms/nappy changing areas present at most sites and homes everywhere when investigating a possible death?

[Alice Purjorick]

O.K............put it this way........When in "work mode" what stops the dog reacting to lavatories/bathrooms/nappy changing areas present at most sites and homes everywhere when investigating a possible death?

Some kind of hardwired toggled interlock? 

[ShiningInLuz]

You said:
The ground was totally unsuitable for an actual grid to be laid out and worked.
Looks like we were both wrong really.
Mind you I guess it was set out using the optical instrument on the tripod in shot.

No area in Luz was worked on a grid method in 2014.

General areas of interest (3) had cordon tape set around the outside to keep the media and public off.

When an area of particular interest (within the general area) was identified they then stuck in iron or steel stanchions on each corner, set up a small rectangle of tape, and worked within that.

The area to the east of Luz that was searched was quite large.  First, the entire perimeter was taped off.  Then, a quite small area within that had (presumably) metals rods banged in and the rectangle of interest taped off.  Then they searched that rectangle.

Then they concluded there was nothing of interest.

There does not seem to have been a comprehensive, meticulous or methodical search of areas to the east of Luz.

Just whack in a small search area, check that scrupulously, then move on.