UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: faithlilly on October 31, 2015, 12:29:32 AM
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It has been mentioned many times that while employing the best lawyers the McCanns have again and again managed to hire detectives who were either incompetent, dishonest or both.
First we had Metido3 who, amongst other faux pas, claimed they would have Madeleine home by Christmas. It would now also appear that not only were they obtaining money fraudulently from the fund but they lied about how many detectives they had investigating the disappearance and failed to take or follow up information obtained through their hotline.
The McCanns, latterly, were informed of the fraudulently obtained money yet choose to do nothing about it, citing SY's investigation as the reason. Of course this absolutely flies in the face of a claim by their spokesman last week that the McCanns ' would do everything to help the authorities' in the wake of the fraud revelations.
Then, of course, we had Oakley International and their charismatic director Halligen who not only failed to follow up information left on their hotline but was paid, it is reported, over half a million pounds for doing so. The McCanns, yet again, took no action. This time the reason is a mystery.
Finely of course we had Edgar and Cowley who, we were told in the court in Lisbon, had access to only the parts of the official files the McCanns wanted them to have access to and were themselves the subject of a Daily Mail exclusive in which it was revealed that prior to the infamous 'Victoria Beckham' press conference in which a businessman was allegedly asked while at a Barcelona marina if he had brought a woman's new daughter, the pair had made no relevant investigations at the site of the alleged incident.
Are the McCanns simply unlucky ? Did they fail to follow up the fraudulent activity of both Halligen and Metodo3 because they feared the bad publicity or are their actions a sign of something more sinister and why, when it is undeniable that metodo3, Halligen and Edgar/Cowley severely hampered the search for Madeleine, they have chosen to pursue only Amaral for, it seems, unproven damage ?
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It has been mentioned many times that while employing the best lawyers the McCanns have again and again managed to hire detectives who were either incompetent, dishonest or both.
First we had Metido3 who, amongst other faux pas, claimed they would have Madeleine home by Christmas. It would now also appear that not only were they obtaining money fraudulently from the fund but they lied about how many detectives they had investigating the disappearance and failed to take or follow up information obtained through their hotline.
The McCanns, latterly, were informed of the fraudulently obtained money yet choose to do nothing about it, citing SY's investigation as the reason. Of course this absolutely flies in the face of a claim by their spokesman last week that the McCanns ' would do everything to help the authorities' in the wake of the fraud revelations.
Then, of course, we had Oakley International and their charismatic director Halligen who not only failed to follow up information left on their hotline but was paid, it is reported, over half a million pounds for doing so. The McCanns, yet again, took no action. This time the reason is a mystery.
Finely of course we had Edgar and Cowley who, we were told in the court in Lisbon, had access to only the parts of the official files the McCanns wanted them to have access to and were themselves the subject of a Daily Mail exclusive in which it was revealed that prior to the infamous 'Victoria Beckham' press conference in which a businessman was allegedly asked while at a Barcelona marina if he had brought a woman's new daughter, the pair had made no relevant investigations at the site of the alleged incident.
Are the McCanns simply unlucky ? Did they fail to follow up the fraudulent activity of both Halligen and Metodo3 because they feared the bad publicity or are their actions a sign of something more sinister and why, when it is undeniable that metodo3, Halligen and Edgar/Cowley severely hampered the search for Madeleine, they have chosen to pursue only Amaral for, it seems, unproven damage ?
Indeed. The mccanns capacity to pick crooks and/or incompetents to 'search' for Madeleine seems unparalleled.
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The McCanns, latterly, were informed of the fraudulently obtained money yet choose to do nothing about it, citing SY's investigation as the reason. Of course this absolutely flies in the face of a claim by their spokesman last week that the McCanns ' would do everything to help the authorities' in the wake of the fraud revelations.
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If and when I get some information beyond The Sun report on this, I will be able to give an informed opinion as to whether a fraud actually occurred and what I think should be done about it. In the absence of this information, I cannot comment.
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It has been mentioned many times that while employing the best lawyers the McCanns have again and again managed to hire detectives who were either incompetent, dishonest or both.
First we had Metido3 who, amongst other faux pas, claimed they would have Madeleine home by Christmas. It would now also appear that not only were they obtaining money fraudulently from the fund but they lied about how many detectives they had investigating the disappearance and failed to take or follow up information obtained through their hotline.
The McCanns, latterly, were informed of the fraudulently obtained money yet choose to do nothing about it, citing SY's investigation as the reason. Of course this absolutely flies in the face of a claim by their spokesman last week that the McCanns ' would do everything to help the authorities' in the wake of the fraud revelations.
Then, of course, we had Oakley International and their charismatic director Halligen who not only failed to follow up information left on their hotline but was paid, it is reported, over half a million pounds for doing so. The McCanns, yet again, took no action. This time the reason is a mystery.
Finely of course we had Edgar and Cowley who, we were told in the court in Lisbon, had access to only the parts of the official files the McCanns wanted them to have access to and were themselves the subject of a Daily Mail exclusive in which it was revealed that prior to the infamous 'Victoria Beckham' press conference in which a businessman was allegedly asked while at a Barcelona marina if he had brought a woman's new daughter, the pair had made no relevant investigations at the site of the alleged incident.
Are the McCanns simply unlucky ? Did they fail to follow up the fraudulent activity of both Halligen and Metodo3 because they feared the bad publicity or are their actions a sign of something more sinister and why, when it is undeniable that metodo3, Halligen and Edgar/Cowley severely hampered the search for Madeleine, they have chosen to pursue only Amaral for, it seems, unproven damage ?
I can think of no good reason why the McCanns would deliberately employ individuals intent on ripping them off, so perhaps you could shed some light on what you think might be the sinister reasons they had for doing so?
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I can think of no good reason why the McCanns would deliberately employ individuals intent on ripping them off, so perhaps you could shed some light on what you think might be the sinister reasons they had for doing so?
Once is a mistake, twice is a choice, three times is a pattern.
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Indeed. The mccanns capacity to pick crooks and/or incompetents to 'search' for Madeleine seems unparalleled.
But they certainly knew how to find the best lawyers, though, didn't they?
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Once is a mistake, twice is a choice, three times is a pattern.
Scotland Yard collected all of the information retained by the first and the last Firms of Detectives. I don't know what they did about Halligen, but there probably wasn't any. But SY certainly had an interest in what the other two had accomplished.
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But they certainly knew how to find the best lawyers, though, didn't they?
There are no Detective Agencies who specialise in Child Abduction as far as I know. Lawyers deal in Law, and who wouldn't want a bad one.
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https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=private+detectives+specializing+in+child+abductions
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https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=private+detectives+specializing+in+child+abductions
you obviously haven't looked at any of the search results. Any detective agency that specialised in stranger abduction of children would be out of business pretty quickly as these abducuctions are so rare....
I guarantee you will not find an agency that has any real experience in this field....
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https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=private+detectives+specializing+in+child+abductions
Thank you, Stephen. But they don't just specialise. Who would? They wouldn't earn very much, would they.
And please don't forget that investigating in Portugal would have been very difficult.
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you obviously haven't looked at any of the search results. Any detective agency that specialised in stranger abduction of children would be out of business pretty quickly as these abducuctions are so rare....
I guarantee you will not find an agency that has any real experience in this field....
Just one search dave, and let's face it, any company in this field who did just one type of work would not be in business long.
As for your guarantees............................
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Thank you, Stephen. But they don't just specialise. Who would? They wouldn't earn very much, would they.
And please don't forget that investigating in Portugal would have been very difficult.
Investigating in an ongoing case would be illegal, if reports are true.
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Just one search dave, and let's face it, any company in this field who did just one type of work would not be in business long.
As for your guarantees............................
you cannot find an agency that specialises in stranger abductions...fact...anyone with any sense would realise that but you actually carry out a google search...despite repeatedly criticising those who use google....
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But they certainly knew how to find the best lawyers, though, didn't they?
Eureka!! 8((()*/ @)(++(*
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It has been mentioned many times that while employing the best lawyers the McCanns have again and again managed to hire detectives who were either incompetent, dishonest or both.
First we had Metido3 who, amongst other faux pas, claimed they would have Madeleine home by Christmas. It would now also appear that not only were they obtaining money fraudulently from the fund but they lied about how many detectives they had investigating the disappearance and failed to take or follow up information obtained through their hotline.
The McCanns, latterly, were informed of the fraudulently obtained money yet choose to do nothing about it, citing SY's investigation as the reason. Of course this absolutely flies in the face of a claim by their spokesman last week that the McCanns ' would do everything to help the authorities' in the wake of the fraud revelations.
Then, of course, we had Oakley International and their charismatic director Halligen who not only failed to follow up information left on their hotline but was paid, it is reported, over half a million pounds for doing so. The McCanns, yet again, took no action. This time the reason is a mystery.
Finely of course we had Edgar and Cowley who, we were told in the court in Lisbon, had access to only the parts of the official files the McCanns wanted them to have access to and were themselves the subject of a Daily Mail exclusive in which it was revealed that prior to the infamous 'Victoria Beckham' press conference in which a businessman was allegedly asked while at a Barcelona marina if he had brought a woman's new daughter, the pair had made no relevant investigations at the site of the alleged incident.
Are the McCanns simply unlucky ? Did they fail to follow up the fraudulent activity of both Halligen and Metodo3 because they feared the bad publicity or are their actions a sign of something more sinister and why, when it is undeniable that metodo3, Halligen and Edgar/Cowley severely hampered the search for Madeleine, they have chosen to pursue only Amaral for, it seems, unproven damage ?
You could also say they were unlucky with detective Amaral too?
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Eureka!! 8((()*/ @)(++(*
lawyers are very strictly controlled by their professional governing body....private detectives are totally the opposite and often operate outside the law...I thought most people understood this
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you cannot find an agency that specialises in stranger abductions...fact...anyone with any sense would realise that but you actually carry out a google search...despite repeatedly criticising those who use google....
Why would P.I.'s specialize in just one area ?
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You could also say they were unlucky with detective Amaral too?
they were certainly very unlucky with amaral...As an arguido any decent police force would have suspended him
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Why would P.I.'s specialize in just one area ?
then why did you carry out a google search looking for just that....many professionals specialise in certain areas
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Investigating in an ongoing case would be illegal, if reports are true.
So The McCanns employed a Spanish Agency which was the next best thing. Who incidentally said that they HOPED to have Madeleine home by Christmas.
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You could also say they were unlucky with detective Amaral too?
You could say that. And so could I.
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Even today, and quite surprisingly, ‘amateur’ remains the hallmark of the private investigations industry. There are an estimated 10,000 private investigators working in the UK offering services as varied as serving documents, investigating insurance fraud, tracing missing persons, countering intellectual property theft, computer forensics and gathering proof of adultery. Not one of these 10,000 investigators is regulated by the government. Perhaps 20% (or 2,000) have voluntarily submitted to regulation by a peer-reviewed body, but the rest have not.
There is nothing to stop the remaining 8,000 people from screwing a brass plate to the wall or, more probably, creating a website to tell the world that they are private investigators. They can charge what they like while getting access to your confidential information. They could rob you and there is no industry body to which you could complain or which would impose sanctions on offenders.
http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice/how-to-hire-a-private-investigator/5040588.fullarticle
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So The McCanns employed a Spanish Agency which was the next best thing. Who incidentally said that they HOPED to have Madeleine home by Christmas.
and did they have any experience in that field ?
Or were they better at organizing a trip to the local distillery ?
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Thank you to wicksy from the maddiecasefiles for the translation.
'The relevant chapter in La Cortina de Humo (The Smokescreen) summarised: two ex-detectives from Método 3 claim that the agency defrauded the Find Madeleine Fund and Brian Kennedy, and when alerted to this neither entity showed the slightest interest.
First, a bit of background information. The authors are Julián Peribañez and Antonio Tamarit. Both worked for Método 3 on the Madeleine case, Antonio mostly in Morocco, and Julián in Portugal. As Julián speaks English he was used as an interpreter in meetings with the McCanns, and so privy to inside information.
The authors claim that right from the start Francisco Marco, the head of Método 3, saw the investigation as an opportunity to make a lot of money out of Madeleine. He consistently lied about the number of detectives working on the case, claiming there were 20 when at most there were 4. Consequently the claims for expenses, travel costs etc were fraudulently based on 20 detectives. FM also saw the case as an excellent way of getting free publicity for the agency, and courted the Spanish and international media to that end. The hotline was also fraudulent, as calls were diverted to the Método 3 office and answered by detectives with poor language skills, rather than being handled by employees who spoke a wide range of languages, as claimed.
The first contact was when Julián phoned the Kennedys in the first week of December 2013 and spoke to Brian's son Patrick to try to organise a meeting (a long and friendly conversation). Because of financial problems (presumably Julián's) and Christmas commitments they decided to postpone the meeting until January.
He then sent an email to Brian Kennedy on 8th January 2014 in which he explained why he wanted to meet him, to show proof that they had been defrauded and work out a strategy as to what to do next. He got a confirmation that the email was received but no reply. After sending the email twice more, he got an out of office message saying that BK was in America and enquiries should be addressed to Ed Smethurst.
It then took Julián four emails to get Ed Smethurst's email, and when he wrote got an answer that it would be difficult for them to get involved in a lawsuit against Método 3 because they had to concentrate on looking for Madeleine, or at least finding out who abducted her.
Finding this response hard to believe, he wrote back to Smethurst in his capacity as a director of the Find Madeleine fund. In the book he reproduces the email he got in reply in full:
Dear Julián,
I have just had a phone conference with our advisors. As you know the Metropolitan Police are now in charge of the investigation. Because of this, the Trust has agreed that we will not meet or discuss the investigation with any private detectives whilst the Met's investigation continues. This is why we can't meet with you.
However, if you have any information that could help the Trust or the investigation, please feel free to send it by email and it will be gratefully received.
Julián was alarmed at getting such a cold, distant answer and, disappointed, wrote another email to the fund, again reproduced in full in the book. The gist of it is:
So although we've said we want to help you uncover a fraud that you were subjected to, you don't want to meet with us or help us unmask the agency that stole money that was intended to find Madeleine McCann, money that was given by the warm-hearted general public and ended up in the pockets of M3. Please, I need to know if this is correct, because it's hard to understand your position, so I need to know for sure if I can count on your cooperation.
He didn't get any answer.'
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If my child were missing and I wanted to hire PIs, I would do it without announcing it and telling the whole world who the detectives were. It seems to me that detective work would be most effective done in secrecy.
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If my child were missing and I wanted to hire PIs, I would do it without announcing it and telling the whole world who the detectives were. It seems to me that detective work would be most effective done in secrecy.
Absolutely Montclair.
I also wonder how SY would have viewed the information they were given by Metodo3 if they had known the facts the former employees are now making public ?
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But they certainly knew how to find the best lawyers, though, didn't they?
No trouble at all. 8)--))
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and did they have any experience in that field ?
Or were they better at organizing a trip to the local distillery ?
They were close by, Stephen, and I expect that they had as much experience as anyone else.
But thanks for the information on Distilleries. I might take them up on that. Spanish Brandy is very good and very cheap, and I need a couple of bottles for my Christmas Cake.
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They were close by, Stephen, and I expect that they had as much experience as anyone else.
But thanks for the information on Distilleries. I might take them up on that. Spanish Brandy is very good and very cheap, and I need a couple of bottles for my Christmas Cake.
Topic please Eleanor !
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Topic please Eleanor !
Dodgy Detectives advertise trips to Distilleries while not searching for a missing child.. Or was Stephen fibbing?
The rest of my post is On Topic.
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Dodgy Detectives advertise trips to Distilleries while not searching for a missing child.. Or was Stephen fibbing?
The rest of my post is On Topic.
It may have been a Brewery and a few drinks rather than a trip... 8(0(*
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It has been mentioned many times that while employing the best lawyers the McCanns have again and again managed to hire detectives who were either incompetent, dishonest or both.
First we had Metido3 who, amongst other faux pas, claimed they would have Madeleine home by Christmas. It would now also appear that not only were they obtaining money fraudulently from the fund but they lied about how many detectives they had investigating the disappearance and failed to take or follow up information obtained through their hotline.
The McCanns, latterly, were informed of the fraudulently obtained money yet choose to do nothing about it, citing SY's investigation as the reason. Of course this absolutely flies in the face of a claim by their spokesman last week that the McCanns ' would do everything to help the authorities' in the wake of the fraud revelations.
Then, of course, we had Oakley International and their charismatic director Halligen who not only failed to follow up information left on their hotline but was paid, it is reported, over half a million pounds for doing so. The McCanns, yet again, took no action. This time the reason is a mystery.
Finely of course we had Edgar and Cowley who, we were told in the court in Lisbon, had access to only the parts of the official files the McCanns wanted them to have access to and were themselves the subject of a Daily Mail exclusive in which it was revealed that prior to the infamous 'Victoria Beckham' press conference in which a businessman was allegedly asked while at a Barcelona marina if he had brought a woman's new daughter, the pair had made no relevant investigations at the site of the alleged incident.
Are the McCanns simply unlucky ? Did they fail to follow up the fraudulent activity of both Halligen and Metodo3 because they feared the bad publicity or are their actions a sign of something more sinister and why, when it is undeniable that metodo3, Halligen and Edgar/Cowley severely hampered the search for Madeleine, they have chosen to pursue only Amaral for, it seems, unproven damage ?
In what ways have Metodo 3, Halligen, Edgar and Cowley severely hampered the search for Madeleine?
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It may have been a Brewery and a few drinks rather than a trip... 8(0(*
8)--))
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I can think of no good reason why the McCanns would deliberately employ individuals intent on ripping them off, so perhaps you could shed some light on what you think might be the sinister reasons they had for doing so?
Somebody? Anybody?
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It may have been a Brewery and a few drinks rather than a trip... 8(0(*
Never mind, Love. It's a shit job, as no doubt you have realised I thought it was going to be easy in the beginning.
And who knows what anyone actually means when it comes to deciding?
For myself, a trip to a distillery is looking increasingly like a good idea.
But to pay lip service to The Topic. We don't actually know if some of them were Dodgy.
Oh, I gedd it. A Piss Up in a Brewery. Perhaps Stephen should have said that. I wouldn't have deleted that. But you might have done. Each to his own. Moderating around here is Autonomous most of the time.
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so the sceptics are suggesting the mccanns deliberately hired incompetents to search for maddie. Brian Kennedy was responsible for M3.....so why would he spend millions of his own money to hire inept detectives...is he another one who is "in on it"...the idea...like most of the sceptic ideas... is totally ridiculous
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so the sceptics are suggesting the mccanns deliberately hired incompetents to search for maddie. Brian Kennedy was responsible for M3.....so why would he spend millions of his own money to hire inept detectives...is he another one who is "in on it"...the idea...like most of the sceptic ideas... is totally ridiculous
Who knows how daft Brian Kennedy is? Not very, I suspect. But then this case is largely unprecedented. Every bloody thing can be misinterpreted.
Or is this just what happened at The Village Pump? Probably, because a lot of innocent people came to grief.
Halligen was proven to be dodgy, but even he didn't get away with that much because Brian Kennedy cottoned on long before it was common knowledge. So, apart from him, none of the look dodgy to me. Unless anyone can come up with recorded Cites.
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There are thing you can do before hiring private detectives, many law firms hire them and I'm sure they could have advised the Fund on how to find reputable ones;
Jo Pizzala;
‘I would ask if they were ISO-registered, had Edexcel accreditation, had undertaken Skills for Security training and had passed their Criminal Records Bureau checks. I would want confirmation that they were solvent and their staff were experienced at giving evidence in court. Do they have fraud capabilities and undertake corporate investigations? Do members of staff have ongoing training in the latest technologies and techniques? For that matter, does the firm regularly update its equipment?’
your best option is to hire an ABI member,’ Robertson replies. ‘The Law Society of England and Wales, and the Law Society of Scotland have both endorsed the ABI.’
Gavin Robertson, a former Metropolitan Police detective superintendent and now a member of the Association of British Investigators (ABI);
ABI membership is a one-stop shop,’ says Robertson. ‘To become a member they have to undergo a criminal records bureau and financial probity check. They have to pass an entrance examination to prove their competence and have professional indemnity insurance. They are also regulated by the ABI code of practice and disciplinary code, which in turn are independently adjudicated by a solicitor appointed for the task.’
http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice/how-to-hire-a-private-investigator/5040588.fullarticle
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There are thing you can do before hiring private detectives, many law firms hire them and I'm sure they could have advised the Fund on how to find reputable ones;
Jo Pizzala;
‘I would ask if they were ISO-registered, had Edexcel accreditation, had undertaken Skills for Security training and had passed their Criminal Records Bureau checks. I would want confirmation that they were solvent and their staff were experienced at giving evidence in court. Do they have fraud capabilities and undertake corporate investigations? Do members of staff have ongoing training in the latest technologies and techniques? For that matter, does the firm regularly update its equipment?’
your best option is to hire an ABI member,’ Robertson replies. ‘The Law Society of England and Wales, and the Law Society of Scotland have both endorsed the ABI.’
Gavin Robertson, a former Metropolitan Police detective superintendent and now a member of the Association of British Investigators (ABI);
ABI membership is a one-stop shop,’ says Robertson. ‘To become a member they have to undergo a criminal records bureau and financial probity check. They have to pass an entrance examination to prove their competence and have professional indemnity insurance. They are also regulated by the ABI code of practice and disciplinary code, which in turn are independently adjudicated by a solicitor appointed for the task.’
http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice/how-to-hire-a-private-investigator/5040588.fullarticle
But The McCanns couldn't hire a British Firm. So they chose one as close to Portugal as they could get.
What is the problem with this.
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But The McCanns couldn't hire a British Firm. So they chose one as close to Portugal as they could get.
What is the problem with this.
Oakley International was US registered as a manufacturer of search and navigation equipment. Alpha Investigations Group was a two-man band registered in the UK. In all three cases Brian Kennedy seems to have been the driving force behind finding and hiring all the PI Firms. Perhaps the McCanns and the Fund just assumed he had carried out the necessary checks.
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Oakley International was US registered as a manufacturer of search and navigation equipment. Alpha Investigations Group was a two-man band registered in the UK. In all three cases Brian Kennedy seems to have been the driving force behind finding and hiring all the PI Firms. Perhaps the McCanns and the Fund just assumed he had carried out the necessary checks.
I expect that they did, as he was. But where does this leave The McCanns as being culpable? Which they are not.
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We don't know who was paying the bills for these PI's.
"He who pays the piper and all that............."
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so the sceptics are suggesting the mccanns deliberately hired incompetents to search for maddie. Brian Kennedy was responsible for M3.....so why would he spend millions of his own money to hire inept detectives...is he another one who is "in on it"...the idea...like most of the sceptic ideas... is totally ridiculous
quite. I'd love to hear a "sceptic"s rational and logical explanation for this...
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I expect that they did, as he was. But where does this leave The McCanns as being culpable? Which they are not.
The McCanns were perhaps being naive again. The Fund however, was supposed to be manned by knowledgeable people. Were they actively involved in decision making or just there to rubber-stamp the McCann's expenditure? The only decision I have seen them make on the record was the one not to pay for the Mccann's legal defence when they came under suspicion.
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The McCanns were perhaps being naive again. The Fund however, was supposed to be manned by knowledgeable people. Were they actively involved in decision making or just there to rubber-stamp the McCann's expenditure? The only decision I have seen them make on the record was the one not to pay for the Mccann's legal defence when they came under suspicion.
Does anyone know what should be done in these circumstances? Certainly not you.
The McCanns decided not to ask for Legal expenses, if it was ever an option in the first place. Which I don't think it was.
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so the sceptics are suggesting the mccanns deliberately hired incompetents to search for maddie. Brian Kennedy was responsible for M3.....so why would he spend millions of his own money to hire inept detectives...is he another one who is "in on it"...the idea...like most of the sceptic ideas... is totally ridiculous
Red bit: where does it say that?
Blue bit: did he really spend millions on M3 ? or even millions on the case as a whole?
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Red bit: where does it say that?
Blue bit: did he really spend millions on M3 ? or even millions on the case as a whole?
You know full well that the point of this thread is to suggest that the McCanns are up to something dodgy via their choice of detectives, Faithlilly suggests it and so does G-Unit.
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Does anyone know what should be done in these circumstances? Certainly not you.
The McCanns decided not to ask for Legal expenses, if it was ever an option in the first place. Which I don't think it was.
It wasn't; the board as it was then composed had a meeting at which it was agreed the fund could not be used for such purpose. Esther McVey made the announcement and a videoclip of it is on here somewhere.
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Once is a mistake, twice is a choice, three times is a pattern.
would you care to explain how this addresses my question?
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Red bit: where does it say that?
Blue bit: did he really spend millions on M3 ? or even millions on the case as a whole?
lets start with red...what is meant in the opening thread by "something more sinister"....
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You know full well that the point of this thread is to suggest that the McCanns are up to something dodgy via their choice of detectives, Faithlilly suggests it and so does G-Unit.
would you care to explain how this addresses my questions ?
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It wasn't; the board as it was then composed had a meeting at which it was agreed the fund could not be used for such purpose. Esther McVey made the announcement and a videoclip of it is on here somewhere.
Thank You.
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would you care to explain how this addresses my questions ?
it addresses your first question. If you can't work out how, then PM me and I'll spell it out for you, with pictures if necessary.
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would you care to explain how this addresses my questions ?
I know it sounds totally ridiculous and should not be taken seriously but do you realise there are those on here who think that the mccanns covered up maddies death and have left little tell tale signs that confirm this...they expect the mccanns to be arrested shortly.
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I know it sounds totally ridiculous and should not be taken seriously but do you realise there are those on here who think that the mccanns covered up maddies death and have left little tell tale signs that confirm this...they expect the mccanns to be arrested shortly.
Then there are those who believe in a mystical abduction and not one shred of evidence to support it. 8**8:/:
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it addresses your first question. If you can't work out how, then PM me and I'll spell it out for you, with pictures if necessary.
What's wrong with second one then? Why do you not address that?.
Faithlilly asks a question in the opening post. The thread is no worse that some of the stuff you and ferryman have stuck up, if admin don't like it no doubt they will delete it.
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Then there are those who believe in a mystical abduction and not one shred of evidence to support it. 8**8:/:
It's more plausible than some of the other mad ideas I have come across. Including deliberately employing dodgy detectives.
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Then there are those who believe in a mystical abduction and not one shred of evidence to support it. 8**8:/:
Redwood stated abduction supported by evidence
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You know full well that the point of this thread is to suggest that the McCanns are up to something dodgy via their choice of detectives, Faithlilly suggests it and so does G-Unit.
So why do you think that even when told they had been defrauded the fund did nothing ? Yet when the fraud was revealed last week the McCanns, via their spokesman, said they would do everything to help the authorities in the matter. Why did the whistleblowers have to go to the press before the McCanns took notice ?
Furtherr both with Metodo3 and Oakley there is talk of either information not been taken or not being forwarded to the fund. Why was this not questioned ?
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What's wrong with second one then? Why do you not address that?.
Faithlilly asks a question in the opening post. The thread is no worse that some of the stuff you and ferryman have stuck up, if admin don't like it no doubt they will delete it.
I rarely start threads with the intention of casting slurs on the McCanns' integrity, which is the obvious intention of this one, as any fule no.
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So why do you think that even when told they had been defrauded the fund did nothing ? Yet when the fraud was revealed last week the McCanns, via their spokesman, said they would do everything to help the authorities in the matter. Why did the whistleblowers have to go to the press before the McCanns took notice ?
Furtherr both with Metodo3 and Oakley there is talk of either information not been taken or not being forwarded to the fund. Why was this not questioned ?
I don't know Faithlilly. Why do you think?
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What do we know about these two characters who have written this book?
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I rarely start threads with the intention of casting slurs on the McCanns' integrity, which is the obvious intention of this one, as any fule no.
Well of course not.
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Does anyone know what should be done in these circumstances? Certainly not you.
The McCanns decided not to ask for Legal expenses, if it was ever an option in the first place. Which I don't think it was.
That sounds a bit harsh. None of us know, not just me.
What you do if you don't know is appoint people who do to the Board of Director's. They are then resposible of making sure things are done correctly;
The Board and its individual Directors will ensure that the Fund is subject to required financial legal scrutiny. They will ensure that they receive reliable external advice and information, as the basis for making good decisions.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/FUND_COMMITTEE.htm
Two of the directors, Brian Kennedy and John McCann, are members of Madeleine's family. The other five directors are independent appointments. They were appointed to ensure the Board of Directors had independence and the range of skills required to manage the Fund.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id58.html
the Fund's directors ruled that they could not use it to pay the legal team defending them against Portuguese allegations that they were involved in Madeleine's disappearance.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id58.html
Did the directors decide before or after being asked? If you have evidence the parents didn't ask a cite would be helpful.
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Does anyone know what should be done in these circumstances? Certainly not you.
The McCanns decided not to ask for Legal expenses, if it was ever an option in the first place. Which I don't think it was.
"We want a big event to raise awareness that she is still missing. We would look at high-profile people who have already pledged support. It will be some sort of focus around an anniversary, to tell people that Madeleine ’s still missing. I think it would be later this year, once media attention has dropped, to bring it back up, hopefully, for a short period. It wouldn’t be a one-year anniversary, it will be sooner than that." (GM Sunday 3 June 2007)
Maybe Gerry can plan his Decade anniversary now. Dodgy guy just like their detectives.
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Esther McVey:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h8Qc3YCaHY
Shame we don't have all of it.
Not that long afterwards all the independent directors resigned and the family took over.
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Redwood stated abduction supported by evidence
No, he said he believed.
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What do we know about these two characters who have written this book?
A couple of ex-employees of Metod3 who like to do exposes apparently. Marco had a writ out against them once.
One man's freedom fighter whistle-blower is another man's terrorist stool pigeon.
I look forward to watching this one pan out.
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No, he said he believed.
believed the evidence supported abduction
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We don't know who was paying the bills for these PI's.
"He who pays the piper and all that............."
It appears a mix of the Mccanns and Kennedy
As always we only have a variety of news reports to sift through and/or Clarence Mitchells pronouncements, and just guess what is true and what is not, but it certainly was never in the "millions".....just another area where it is "unclear" what was what
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id76.html
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They had one good detective and SY got his file.
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So The McCanns employed a Spanish Agency which was the next best thing. Who incidentally said that they HOPED to have Madeleine home by Christmas.
Who incidentally also said they knew who the abductor was, where he was,and how he did it!!
All spoken on TV.
So what happened there?
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believed the evidence supported abduction
Enlighten me.
Since there is no forensic evidence whatsoever to support it.
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Enlighten me.
Since there is no forensic evidence whatsoever to support it.
The only cicrumstantial evidence, at a stretch, that there may have been an abduction is the absence of the parents and an unlocked apartment, that is about it, Redwood has never said anything else,anyne who claims he did has to quote him
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Topic please gentlemen.
Members are asked not to make unfounded allegations, please keep to the facts as known.
Happy Halloween!
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no, I just genuinely have no idea, short of speculating wildly and what's the point of that?
But you have to agree that there are questions that need answers ?
If, which seems likely, the fund has been defrauded this must have had an impact on the ability of the McCanns to search for Madeleine. Don't you think these alleged criminals should be brought to justice, and as soon as possible ?
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But you have to agree that there is questions that need answers ?
If, which seems likely, the fund has been defrauded this must have had an impact on the ability of the McCanns to search for Madeleine. Don't you think these alleged criminals should be brought to justice, and as soon as possible ?
Don't pretend to care about the Fund being defrauded or the impact this may have had on the McCanns search for Madeleine. Your only interest in this (completely uncorroborated or verified tale) is that you fervently hope that the McCanns are involved in something sinister and get banged up for fraud.
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Don't pretend to care about the Fund being defrauded or the impact this may have had on the McCanns search for Madeleine. Your only interest in this (completely uncorroborated or verified tale) is that you fervently hope that the McCanns are involved in something sinister and get banged up for fraud.
My motivation matters not one jot but your ad hominem attack speaks volumes.
Now please answer the question Alfie ?
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They had one good detective and SY got his file.
I'd love to know how that worked. Did SY know which detectives to approach by reading the newspapers or did the Fund give them a list of names and addresses? When they arrived at the detectives employed by Oakley were they refused access due to the solicitor's letter and have to go back to the Fund for written permission? I bet they were pleased about that. I wonder what was in that file to make it so important for the Fund to want it kept secret? It was allegedly 'hypercritical of the people involved'. Did Operation Grange ignore/discount that, but decide they liked the efits so would use them?
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I'd love to know how that worked. Did SY know which detectives to approach by reading the newspapers or did the Fund give them a list of names and addresses? When they arrived at the detectives employed by Oakley were they refused access due to the solicitor's letter and have to go back to the Fund for written permission? I bet they were pleased about that. I wonder what was in that file to make it so important for the Fund to want it kept secret? It was allegedly 'hypercritical of the people involved'. Did Operation Grange ignore/discount that, but decide they liked the efits so would use them?
Allegedly. A Confidentiality Agreement is perfectly normal in these circumstances. Nothing strange about that. And no one actually knows what happened with The E-Fits or when.
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My motivation matters not one jot but your ad hominem attack speaks volumes.
Now please answer the question Alfie ?
perhaps if you had the courtesy to answer my questions when requested instead of being told that you don't answer questions by rude old men I might feel more like doing your bidding.
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Xcuse me, cough, cough. Could we start the day by trying to be pleasant?
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Allegedly. A Confidentiality Agreement is perfectly normal in these circumstances. Nothing strange about that. And no one actually knows what happened with The E-Fits or when.
Confidentiality between laywer and client and or Priest(or equivelent) is written in most countries laws. Those detectives should never have been asked to keepthings quiet and the McCANNS certainly should never have kept things quiet, if they are to be seen as desperate to find their daughter.
Knowingly Withholding important information regarding a crime (evidence or perppretators) especially if this may lead to moving the case forward, which is what the fund was about, could be seen as a contempt. Which I believe the McCanns had for the Portusgues police.
It also seems strange that they pursue Amaral (along with supporters mentioning him making money from Maddie), but don't seem that bothered about others who acted in a criminal way ( if the allegations are true).
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Confidentiality between laywer and client and or Priest(or equivelent) is written in most countries laws. Those detectives should never have been asked to keepthings quiet and the McCANNS certainly should never have kept things quiet, if they are to be seen as desperate to find their daughter.
Knowingly Withholding important information regarding a crime (evidence or perppretators) especially if this may lead to moving the case forward, which is what the fund was about, could be seen as a contempt. Which I believe the McCanns had for the Portusgues police.
It also seems strange that they pursue Amaral (along with supporters mentioning him making money from Maddie), but don't seem that bothered about others who acted in a criminal way ( if the allegations are true).
Don't be silly. Or would you employ a Detective Agency and then expect your information to be exposed all over The Internet without your permission?
If what allegations are true?
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Don't be silly. Or would you employ a Detective Agency and then expect your information to be exposed all over The Internet without your permission?
If what allegations are true?
Not being silly enough to leave my children alone I would guess.
I am talking about the McCanns handing over information they got which may have led to an arrest? evidence of any sort.
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Not being silly enough to leave my children alone I would guess.
I am talking about the McCanns handing over information they got which may have led to an arrest? evidence of any sort.
Who says they didn't?
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Who says they didn't?
Who said they did? You are the one talking about confidentiality.
The fact is The McCanns, for reasons known to themselves, wanted complete control of the investigation of their missing daughter and they also wanted to ensure that the ONLY theory to be looked at was their preferred choice of jemmied window and abductor!
That is why they got investigators to see what would showup, you know witnesess? and slagged off the Portuguese police, the searches etc
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Who said they did? You are the one talking about confidentiality.
The fact is The McCanns, for reasons known to themselves, wanted complete control of the investigation of their missing daughter and they also wanted to ensure that the ONLY theory to be looked at was their preferred choice of jemmied window and abductor!
That is why they got investigators to see what would showup, you know witnesess? and slagged off the Portuguese police, the searches etc
And you think that Scotland Yard could not have got this information without the consent of The McCanns, assuming that The McCanns chose to with hold it?
That is really silly.
The Confidentiallity Clause was to prevent these people from making money from something that The McCanns had paid for. And can you blame them?
The rest of your post is nonsense, and not applicable to Dodgy Detectives.
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Who says they didn't?
They didn't share prime suspect efits in their daughter's disappearance with the public and when they did their own reconstruction in 2009 every other efit except Smithman was shown. Everything about Smithman was wrong - time, carrying style, etc. to connect him to the Tanner sighting. Their leaving no stone unturned @)(++(* book was released 3 years later in 2011 and still no efits. Why not? I know what I call it.
Slim physical appearance, about 1.70m tall. Very dark, thick hair, longer at the back. He was carrying a child, who was lying on both his arms, in front of his chest. (JT)
He was average build, 5 foot 10' in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual's left shoulder, that being to the right of the deponent. (MS)
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Who said they did? You are the one talking about confidentiality.
The fact is The McCanns, for reasons known to themselves, wanted complete control of the investigation of their missing daughter and they also wanted to ensure that the ONLY theory to be looked at was their preferred choice of jemmied window and abductor!
That is why they got investigators to see what would showup, you know witnesess? and slagged off the Portuguese police, the searches etc
what else would you expect the fund to investigate
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Dodgy detectives,
why employ detectives and withhold important information. One of the McCanns team did pay a visit to Smith family.
Why? To get information which they were going to keep to them selves?
Why? to see if Smith had identified Gerry as a suspect and, if he did, would they have handed that to police?
mmmm anyway SY got hold of that years later, and decided that this was IMPORTANT. not as important as the McCANNS though
Why? ...
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Dodgy detectives,
why employ detectives and withhold important information. One of the McCanns team did pay a visit to Smith family.
Why? To get information which they were going to keep to them selves?
Why? to see if Smith had identified Gerry as a suspect and, if he did, would they have handed that to police?
mmmm anyway SY got hold of that years later, and decided that this was IMPORTANT. not as important as the McCANNS though
Why? ...
first...what else would you expect the detectives employed by the mccanns to investigate
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They didn't share prime suspect efits in their daughter's disappearance with the public and when they did their own reconstruction in 2009 every other efit except Smithman was shown. Everything about Smithman was wrong - time, carrying style, etc. to connect him to the Tanner sighting. Their leaving no stone unturned @)(++(* book was released 3 years later in 2011 and still no efits. Why not? I know what I call it.
Slim physical appearance, about 1.70m tall. Very dark, thick hair, longer at the back. He was carrying a child, who was lying on both his arms, in front of his chest. (JT)
He was average build, 5 foot 10' in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual's left shoulder, that being to the right of the deponent. (MS)
And what has this got to do with Dodgy Detectives?
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first...what else would you expect the detectives employed by the mccanns to investigate
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Why get anyone to investigate at all? what was the reason? They were not going to hand in any information gathered by them to the police, so what were they going to do with it? hide it?
And they were not going to allow the detictives to tell anyone what they found out why is that?
If PI's gave me information about who may have abducted my daughter I would make sure they were named and shamed and blamed. They could have passed it onto an investigative TV programm...just saying
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?
Why get anyone to investigate at all? what was the reason? They were not going to hand in any information gathered by them to the police, so what were they going to do with it? hide it?
And they were not going to allow the detictives to tell anyone what they found out why is that?
If PI's gave me information about who may have abducted my daughter I would make sure they were named and shamed and blamed. They could have passed it onto an investigative TV programm...just saying
if you don't understand why the mccanns hired private investigators then it is pointless discussing anything
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if you don't understand why the mccanns hired private investigators then it is pointless discussing anything
and pray tell what have any of these 'detectives' achieved ?
Mind you I did hear the SY officers working on the case stayed in 5 star hotels.
All of course on the tax payers expense, along with their other 'expenses'.
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if you don't understand why the mccanns hired private investigators then it is pointless discussing anything
Well perhaps you being knowledgable about the why and wherefor regarding employing the detectives perhaps you can enlighten me?
Why were they employed?
what was the remit?
what was to happen with the information gathered?
Thank you Davel, I appreciate this.
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"I was very angry at a journalist today. I told her not to do so much detective work." (Kate McCann) *&*%£
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"I was very angry at a journalist today. I told her not to do so much detective work." (Kate McCann) *&*%£
Ms brass neck healy, gosh lol
Think it has been established beynd any doubt whatsoever that the mccanns HID the smithman efit,,,,,people can wriggle squirm and have hernias, self combust in protest, it remains a total fact to add to the evidence which i am sure OG read lol
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Ms brass neck healy, gosh lol
Think it has been established beynd any doubt whatsoever that the mccanns HID the smithman efit,,,,,people can wriggle squirm and have hernias, self combust in protest, it remains a total fact to add to the evidence which i am sure OG read lol
I actually find her testimony completely honest Mercury.
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I actually find her testimony completely honest Mercury.
My first comment related to k healy trying to pronounce or control to anyone what they should and should not research, which IS a brass neck...was she wantng to find her kid or not??
The rest was to do with both the mccanns HIDING the smith efit for five years, so much that even scotland yard had to jump hoops to get sight of it, i dont call that honest either way, have to dash now its late
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Another detective agency that hasn't had a mention is Hogan International. Apparently this company, owned by Noel Hogan, was engaged by Metodo 3 to deal with the UK end of their investigations. He was paid damages by The Sunday Express following an article claiming he was 'not up to the task'.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id135.html