UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: sadie on December 09, 2018, 10:11:58 PM
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I have noticed the Tapas Reception being called The Secondary Reception, but are there actually three Receptions?
1) The main Reception on Rua Direita (On GE street scene see the big tall blue notice on Rua Direita)
2) The Reception at Ribeiro Lopes, 160 LGS, R. José Pedro das Lages (where the Millenium Restaurant is situated)
3) The Reception to the Tapas area, on Rua Dr.F.G.Martins, which is now called Luz Ocean Club ~ Garden Club
Which would be the Secondary Reception area, I wonder? I am inclined to think that number 2, near the Milenium, would be because like at number 1 on Rua Direita, there is private parking adjoining, even coach parking..
What do others think ?
I think in an ideal situation, and to prevent confusion, it would be best if we all 'sing from the same song sheet'
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The Ocean Club has changed since 2007. The main Reception then was in Rua Direita and it's now closed, as are the adult and indoor swimming pools. Reception is at the Millenium complex and the Tapas Restaurant is now just a snack bar.
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The Ocean Club has changed since 2007. The main Reception then was in Rua Direita and it's now closed, as are the adult and indoor swimming pools. Reception is at the Millenium complex and the Tapas Restaurant is now just a snack bar.
I wonder how much of that was down to the Maddie disappearance with all the job losses which followed. Anyone know if the Luz area has ever recovered fully from those events in 2007 and everything that has gone on since?
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I wonder how much of that was down to the Maddie disappearance with all the job losses which followed. Anyone know if the Luz area has ever recovered fully from those events in 2007 and everything that has gone on since?
I doubt the "Maddie disappearance" had as much effect on tourism in Luz as did the worldwide economic downturn with which it coincided.
Tourists returned to Luxor. Tourists returned to Tunisia. Why would the disappearance of one little girl destroy Luz?
Snip
As Dr Peter Tarlow sagely observed the tourism industry is an integral component of the global economy and there is no doubt that tourism will be affected by the outbreak of global economic volatility.
Tourism is especially vulnerable to economic uncertainty and volatility for a simple reason. Most travel and tourism involves discretionary expense. During tough economic times people conserve their cash to cover the essentials of life, food, shelter and family necessities. However, this does not mean that tourism stops. The trend that we have learned from past crises whether we refer to past economic crises or the global tourism scare resulting from the events of 9/11 is that people continue to travel but they will travel differently from the way they do during times of economic buoyancy. Those tourism and hospitality businesses which will survive and indeed thrive in the months ahead are those which can adapt because there are always winners and losers in any outbreak of economic volatility.
https://www.eturbonews.com/10950/tourism-and-global-economic-crisis-2008
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I wonder how much of that was down to the Maddie disappearance with all the job losses which followed. Anyone know if the Luz area has ever recovered fully from those events in 2007 and everything that has gone on since?
I wonder if Shining in Luz has any thoughts on this.Bilton wasn't too well received in 2017.
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I wonder how much of that was down to the Maddie disappearance with all the job losses which followed. Anyone know if the Luz area has ever recovered fully from those events in 2007 and everything that has gone on since?
The mcns actions have ruined so many lives - so many people have suffered including maddie imo
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The mcns actions have ruined so many lives - so many people have suffered including maddie imo
agree
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The Tourists probably found Val de Lobo.
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I wonder how much of that was down to the Maddie disappearance with all the job losses which followed. Anyone know if the Luz area has ever recovered fully from those events in 2007 and everything that has gone on since?
According to the reviews on Trip Advisor it isn't good. The Ocean Club is tired and run down and the village roads are full of potholes. The original owners lived locally and took their responsibilities seriously. They were probably overstaffed, but that helped the local people. The Madeleine effect and the economic downturn the following year drove Mark Warner away and since then it's been more about profit for absentee owners in my opinion.
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I doubt the "Maddie disappearance" had as much effect on tourism in Luz as did the worldwide economic downturn with which it coincided.
Tourists returned to Luxor. Tourists returned to Tunisia. Why would the disappearance of one little girl destroy Luz?
Snip
As Dr Peter Tarlow sagely observed the tourism industry is an integral component of the global economy and there is no doubt that tourism will be affected by the outbreak of global economic volatility.
Tourism is especially vulnerable to economic uncertainty and volatility for a simple reason. Most travel and tourism involves discretionary expense. During tough economic times people conserve their cash to cover the essentials of life, food, shelter and family necessities. However, this does not mean that tourism stops. The trend that we have learned from past crises whether we refer to past economic crises or the global tourism scare resulting from the events of 9/11 is that people continue to travel but they will travel differently from the way they do during times of economic buoyancy. Those tourism and hospitality businesses which will survive and indeed thrive in the months ahead are those which can adapt because there are always winners and losers in any outbreak of economic volatility.
https://www.eturbonews.com/10950/tourism-and-global-economic-crisis-2008
Could it be that parents with toddlers in tow aren't prepared to risk it, there supposedly being a fat smelly burglar on the prowl who as a sideline likes to do a bit of dabbling in child kidnap and trafficking?
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The mcns actions have ruined so many lives - so many people have suffered including maddie imo
What absolute rubbish IMO
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What absolute rubbish IMO
Indeed it is!
Utter rubbish! IMO
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I don't think the McCann effect can be dismissed out of hand.
"As far as we were concerned, we were in a safe, family-oriented holiday resort." [madeleine]
As far as I'm concerned PdL was and is a safe family-oriented holiday resort unless and until it is shown to be otherwise.
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I have noticed the Tapas Reception being called The Secondary Reception, but are there actually three Receptions?
1) The main Reception on Rua Direita (On GE street scene see the big tall blue notice on Rua Direita)
2) The Reception at Ribeiro Lopes, 160 LGS, R. José Pedro das Lages (where the Millenium Restaurant is situated)
3) The Reception to the Tapas area, on Rua Dr.F.G.Martins, which is now called Luz Ocean Club ~ Garden Club
Which would be the Secondary Reception area, I wonder? I am inclined to think that number 2, near the Milenium, would be because like at number 1 on Rua Direita, there is private parking adjoining, even coach parking..
What do others think ?
I think in an ideal situation, and to prevent confusion, it would be best if we all 'sing from the same song sheet'
Bumped as a reminder of the thread topic.
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I don't think the McCann effect can be dismissed out of hand.
"As far as we were concerned, we were in a safe, family-oriented holiday resort." [madeleine]
As far as I'm concerned PdL was and is a safe family-oriented holiday resort unless and until it is shown to be otherwise.
Si are you saying people are, staying away because they believe there was, an abduction
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Si are you saying people are, staying away because they believe there was, an abduction
I think there are many reasons, but most of them are connected to the disappearance of Madeleine.
The 'unsafe' idea (put about by the McCanns)
The media scrum (attracted by the McCanns)
The villa encroachments (publicised by the McCanns)
The burglaries (publicised by the McCanns)
The departure of Mark Warner (due in part to the disappearance)
Package holidays to sunny places abound. Why would anyone choose Luz given the way it has been portrayed?
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I think there are many reasons, but most of them are connected to the disappearance of Madeleine.
The 'unsafe' idea (put about by the McCanns)
The media scrum (attracted by the McCanns)
The villa encroachments (publicised by the McCanns)
The burglaries (publicised by the McCanns)
The departure of Mark Warner (due in part to the disappearance)
Package holidays to sunny places abound. Why would anyone choose Luz given the way it has been portrayed?
Of course if Maddie was abducted as SY seem to believe it's not the mccanns, fault at all
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Bumped as a reminder of the thread topic.
In 2007 there were three reception areas
Palm Bay 24 hour reception on R Direita
The Mill reception (Millenium)
The Garden reception (Tapas)
They are all marked on the map on this page;
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7480.msg351023#msg351023
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Of course if Maddie was abducted as SY seem to believe it's bit the mccanns, fault at all
We all have rights but we also have duties. I'm entitled to leave my doors and windows unlocked but if I'm burgled as a result the police will point out that I was taking a risk by not locking my house. The insurance company probably wouldn't reimburse me for my loss. Neither of them will be impressed if I say the street 'felt safe'. I won't be accused of committing a crime, but I will be left in no doubt that I behaved foolishly.
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Of course if Maddie was abducted as SY seem to believe it's bit the mccanns, fault at all
It's not only a bit the mcns fault - IMO it is the mcns fault.
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"As far as we were concerned, we were in a safe, family-oriented holiday resort." [madeleine]
If only they had spent a family holiday there - instead of an adult one.
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We all have rights but we also have duties. I'm entitled to leave my doors and windows unlocked but if I'm burgled as a result the police will point out that I was taking a risk by not locking my house. The insurance company probably wouldn't reimburse me for my loss. Neither of them will be impressed if I say the street 'felt safe'. I won't be accused of committing a crime, but I will be left in no doubt that I behaved foolishly.
I think the mccanns were wrong to leave the children.... But I don't blame them for what happened
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I think the mccanns were wrong to leave the children.... But I don't blame them for what happened
I would never criticise any parent for doing normal everyday things like letting their children play out, walk to school or the shop or do a paper round. All those things benefit the child by allowing them to learn something.
Blame is the wrong word for what the McCanns say they did. The word I prefer is selfishness because what they did was for their own benefit, not that of their children.
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I would never criticise any parent for doing normal everyday things like letting their children play out, walk to school or the shop or do a paper round. All those things benefit the child by allowing them to learn something.
Blame is the wrong word for what the McCanns say they did. The word I prefer is selfishness because what they did was for their own benefit, not that of their children.
There are 52 weeks in a year, and the adults needed just 1 of them.
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There are 52 weeks in a year, and the adults needed just 1 of them.
If they wanted me time why take the children?
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If they wanted me time why take the children?
The kids had the creche.
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If they wanted me time why take the children?
Don't you think it would be very upsetting for young chldren to be farmed out for a week?
I had three children aged three and under and only ever left them with my parents for one overnight.
Whom do you believe they should have been left with for a week?
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The kids had the creche.
But not the night time facility,round we go again.
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I think there are many reasons, but most of them are connected to the disappearance of Madeleine.
The 'unsafe' idea (put about by the McCanns)
The media scrum (attracted by the McCanns)
The villa encroachments (publicised by the McCanns)
The burglaries (publicised by the McCanns)
The departure of Mark Warner (due in part to the disappearance)
Package holidays to sunny places abound. Why would anyone choose Luz given the way it has been portrayed?
I know of one or two sad sacks who choose to holiday in PdL BECAUSE of Madeleine’s disappearance #ghoulstours
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I would never criticise any parent for doing normal everyday things like letting their children play out, walk to school or the shop or do a paper round. All those things benefit the child by allowing them to learn something.
Blame is the wrong word for what the McCanns say they did. The word I prefer is selfishness because what they did was for their own benefit, not that of their children.
Blame IS the right word. You BLAME them for their alleged selfishness.
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There are 52 weeks in a year, and the adults needed just 1 of them.
Wanted, not needed.
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I know of one or two sad sacks who choose to holiday in PdL BECAUSE of Madeleine’s disappearance #ghoulstours
Cite.
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Don't you think it would be very upsetting for young chldren to be farmed out for a week?
I had three children aged three and under and only ever left them with my parents for one overnight.
Whom do you believe they should have been left with for a week?
Don't you think it would be very upsetting for young chldren to be farmed out for a week?
Well seems they were farmed out with strangers - in the creche every day.
Then left each night on there own - think that better E
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Don't you think it would be very upsetting for young chldren to be farmed out for a week?
Well seems they were farmed out with strangers - in the creche every day.
Then left each night on there own - think that better E
In my opinion you insult many thousands whose children have been fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of family holidays offering such facilities for all age groups.
I doubt if many 'listening services' are still on offer though.
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The McCanns went on holiday to a child friendly resort. I don't see a problem with that.
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In my opinion you insult many thousands whose children have been fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of family holidays offering such facilities for all age groups.
I doubt if many 'listening services' are still on offer though.
Well, IMO you insult many thousands who don't - they were in the creche every day & alone at night.
Are you saying this is what the thousands you are talking about - also did this B
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In my opinion you insult many thousands whose children have been fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of family holidays offering such facilities for all age groups.
I doubt if many 'listening services' are still on offer though.
In my opinion older children are likely to enjoy such facilities, but for younger children it's very similar to their nurseries at home, so a bit of a busman's holiday..
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The names of those who have gone to Luz for the ghoul tour
Didn't a certain member of the Forum from Madrid meet up with SIL? Was that a ghoul tour or a valid research visit?
Then there was a UK journalist, I believe.
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In my opinion older children are likely to enjoy such facilities, but for younger children it's very similar to their nurseries at home, so a bit of a busman's holiday..
So no disruption to the organised routine of a young child's day so beloved of some of us Brits. Just new faces and new experiences to explore.
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Didn't a certain member of the Forum from Madrid meet up with SIL? Was that a ghoul tour or a valid research visit?
Then there was a UK journalist, I believe.
im not looking for names but I believe there was more than those two...from the article in the mirror
The weirdo started offering the tours in January last year and had the first visitor on March 8.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/guide-defends-ghoulish-organised-madeleine-9843543
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So no disruption to the organised routine of a young child's day so beloved of some of us Brits. Just new faces and new experiences to explore.
Yes, we all have different views, don't we. Some of my favourite memories are of introducing my children and grandchildren to new experiences and enjoying watching their reactions. I'm so pleased I didn't miss making those memories.
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Yes, we all have different views, don't we. Some of my favourite memories are of introducing my children and grandchildren to new experiences and enjoying watching their reactions. I'm so pleased I didn't miss making those memories.
My life experiences make me more than aware of the pain being borne by the families of the missing and the dead who must live forever with the knowledge that they will never have the opportunity to make memories or amends.
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My life experiences make me more than aware of the pain being borne by the families of the missing and the dead who must live forever with the knowledge that they will never have the opportunity to make memories or amends.
So what is your point here - because most people have lost someone, without the opportunity to make memories or amends.
This does not mean you have to sympathize with mcns - especially if you think they are involved.
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So what is your point here - because most people have lost someone, without the opportunity to make memories or amends.
This does not mean you have to sympathize with mcns - especially if you think they are involved.
If you pop back a few posts you will find that I have discussed the effects of hatred on our society as a whole outlined by the negativity and destruction of reputation stated by Neil Mackay about one issue which I thought was pertinent to many others.
To be consumed by hatred is not a pretty thing to witness or something to be ignored and according to Mackay ... "Our nastiness comes with a great dollop of hypocrisy as well. Those who behave the worst, pose as the best."
All of which wears the same hat ... whatever the hatred being dished out.
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https://www.christiantoday.com/article/society-is-awash-with-hatred-but-love-is-stronger/127828.htm
"The relationship between love and hate is very close. One of the observations I would make is the way so many people use 'love' as a badge that justifies their hatred. Go on an anti-hate march and feel the hate! Dare to question any of the current shibboleths in our culture and watch how the online mob expresses their hate for you, in the name of love".
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If you pop back a few posts you will find that I have discussed the effects of hatred on our society as a whole outlined by the negativity and destruction of reputation stated by Neil Mackay about one issue which I thought was pertinent to many others.
To be consumed by hatred is not a pretty thing to witness or something to be ignored and according to Mackay ... "Our nastiness comes with a great dollop of hypocrisy as well. Those who behave the worst, pose as the best."
All of which wears the same hat ... whatever the hatred being dished out.
If you pop back a few posts ???? - it is not even on this thread [that post you refer to]
Its on a different thread altogether - I did reply to that.
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My life experiences make me more than aware of the pain being borne by the families of the missing and the dead who must live forever with the knowledge that they will never have the opportunity to make memories or amends.
Blimey that sounds a variation of The Crispian's Day Speech.
Well this bit of it anyway:
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say "To-morrow is Saint Crispian."
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say "These wounds I had on Crispin's day."
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day.
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If you pop back a few posts ???? - it is not even on this thread [that post you refer to]
Its on a different thread altogether - I did reply to that .
Haven't you noticed how one thread blends so much into another when the theme is essentially the same? Perhaps this is an illustration of that lack of differentiation ... but whichever thread one happens to be on, there is absolutely no requirement to be overcome by the rudeness illustrated by your addendum.
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Haven't you noticed how one thread blends so much into another when the theme is essentially the same? Perhaps this is an illustration of that lack of differentiation ... but whichever thread one happens to be on, there is absolutely no requirement to be overcome by the rudeness illustrated by your addendum.
I don't agree it was rude - you sent me on a wild goose chase, going through 3 pages @)(++(*
Considering how quiet it is - I would have thought you would have known what thread you were posting on B
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My life experiences make me more than aware of the pain being borne by the families of the missing and the dead who must live forever with the knowledge that they will never have the opportunity to make memories or amends.
All the more reason to do things with your kids while you can.
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All the more reason to do things with your kids while you can.
Which is an endeavour the majority of parents hope to achieve while not disparaging those who have missed being able to make the memories with their loved ones which most thankfully enjoy but sometimes take for granted.
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The names of those who have gone to Luz for the ghoul tour
So no clue.
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So no clue.
Pat Brown is one such sad sack, there are others who believe that they can justify their ghoulish interest in the name of “research”. I’m not going to name them, if you think that no one has visited PdL BECAUSE of the case then that’s fine, I don’t really give a monkey’s.
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Which is an endeavour the majority of parents hope to achieve while not disparaging those who have missed being able to make the memories with their loved ones which most thankfully enjoy but sometimes take for granted.
Seize the day, forget the creche I say. Don't miss seeing your child's delight when they see or achieve something new.
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Pat Brown is one such sad sack, there are others who believe that they can justify their ghoulish interest in the name of “research”. I’m not going to name them, if you think that no one has visited PdL BECAUSE of the case then that’s fine, I don’t really give a monkey’s.
Is that it?
So not a member then?
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Is that it?
So not a member then?
I don't believe any one here has contributed anything to the understanding of this case....any ghoul tour is of no value at all in progressing the case... IMO.
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Is that it?
So not a member then?
Heri
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I don't believe any one here has contributed anything to the understanding of this case....any ghoul tour is of no value at all in progressing the case... IMO.
I suggest you leave ghouls tours to VS, the member who raised the topic. I believe that OG managed to get in with a ghouls tour well before that. Spades, pickaxes, cadaver dogs, helicopters, horses, perimeter tape. Sunnier than in Rothley.
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Is that it?
So not a member then?
Did I say a member?
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Did I say a member?
[/quitote]
Plural.
Cite.
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I suggest you leave ghouls tours to VS, the member who raised the topic. I believe that OG managed to get in with a ghouls tour well before that. Spades, pickaxes, cadaver dogs, helicopters, horses, perimeter tape. Sunnier than in Rothley.
You will understand if I totally ignore your suggestion.. TIA..
There is no restriction on who can reply to a post
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I know of one or two sad sacks who choose to holiday in PdL BECAUSE of Madeleine’s disappearance #ghoulstours
No mention of members, yet some people are quite defensive and it’s rather revealing.
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You will understand if I totally ignore your suggestion.. TIA..
There is no restriction on who can reply to a post
V-S thinks there is.
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V-S thinks there is.
He is now reduced to talking to himself.
What was that comment about sad old sacks?
Read the post in context and you will understand
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V-S thinks there is.
He is now reduced to talking to himself.
What was that comment about sad old sacks?
The “sad sack” comment referred to people who choose to visit PdL because it’s where a little girl went missing, never to be seen again. It’s not something I would do, and I think those who do so are simply indulging in ghoulish behaviour. If I’m talking to myself I guess no one is reading this and I can be assured that there will be no smart arse replies go this post... :-)
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https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Grief_tourism
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The “sad sack” comment referred to people who choose to visit PdL because it’s where a little girl went missing, never to be seen again. It’s not something I would do, and I think those who do so are simply indulging in ghoulish behaviour. If I’m talking to myself I guess no one is reading this and I can be assured that there will be no smart arse replies go this post... :-)
Do you also include supporters who have visited PDL for "research" too as "sad sacks" too VS? I can think of two members here that have done so.
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Do you also include supporters who have visited PDL for "research" too as "sad sacks" too VS? I can think of two members here that have done so.
No, they are doing vital resesrch for the benefit of all mankind. 8(0(*
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No, they are doing vital resesrch for the benefit of all mankind. 8(0(*
Ah of course they are...
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Do you also include supporters who have visited PDL for "research" too as "sad sacks" too VS? I can think of two members here that have done so.
I wonder if Shining In Luz will bark “cite” in reply to this post...?
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I wonder if Shining In Luz will bark “cite” in reply to this post...?
I have no problem providing cites if requested. The two posters I have in mind have made it very clear they have visited Praia Da Luz. I thought it may be better not to share names but if you want me to .... of course I will.
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I have no problem providing cites if requested. The two posters I have in mind have made it very clear they have visited Praia Da Luz. I thought it may be better not to share names but if you want me to .... of course I will.
I know of one who has visited BECAUSE of the case, but I don’t really class him as a supporter. The other I believe (but may be wrong) had already been to PdL prior to the disappearance.
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I know of one who has visited BECAUSE of the case, but I don’t really class him as a supporter. The other I believe (but may be wrong) had already been to PdL prior to the disappearance.
I was under the impression that he was a supporter. The other one has been more than once and discussed her visits regularly here-her visits were because of Madeleine's disappearance.
I have never been there nor do I have any compunction to do so.
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The “sad sack” comment referred to people who choose to visit PdL because it’s where a little girl went missing, never to be seen again. It’s not something I would do, and I think those who do so are simply indulging in ghoulish behaviour. If I’m talking to myself I guess no one is reading this and I can be assured that there will be no smart arse replies go this post... :-)
Well I'm reading this post and it seems to me you are talking about Sadie - a bit OTT imo
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I was under the impression that he was a supporter. The other one has been more than once and discussed her visits regularly here-her visits were because of Madeleine's disappearance.
I have never been there nor do I have any compunction to do so.
Me neither, but at least we can agree that Madeleine ‘s case has proven an attraction rather than a deterrent for some strange reason.
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I wonder if Shining In Luz will bark “cite” in reply to this post...?
I don't bark.
I'm still waiting for two ghouls tours. Cite.
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I don't bark.
I'm still waiting for two ghouls tours. Cite.
???
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???
You raised it, so kindly get on with it.
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You raised it, so kindly get on with it.
Could you do the first week in February
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You raised it, so kindly get on with it.
get on with what?
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Could you do the first week in February
Okay, I thought that was funny. Sorry about that.
Is there even the remotest chance that you all could be reasonably pleasant to each other? No? Thought not. Back to Deleting then, when I can be bothered. I tend to think that you all should be allowed to show yourselves up.
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Could you do the first week in February
Do you have anything to contribute, other than jibes?
It's so BORING!
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Do you have anything to contribute, other than jibes?
It's so BORING!
in your opinion.
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Well I'm reading this post and it seems to me you are talking about Sadie - a bit OTT imo
Oops , that's me! $65*. Soz I have been away for a few days so missed lots.
A bit obsessive, I might agree, but never OTT and never Ghoulish. Btw, I spent very much more time out of P de Luz looking elsewhere than I did in P de Luz ... and I am pretty sure that I found a large number of linking interesting facts to do with the case. Pity that I cant share them.
Everything I did, everywhere in PT I went, was done thoroughly with one aim: To try and find Madeleine and to stop the perpetrators