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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 07:27:57 AM

Title: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 07:27:57 AM

Does anyone know what Goncalo Amaral is up to at the moment?  Or where he is?

I am suffering some serious withdrawal symptoms, so anything will do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 08:44:44 AM
Does anyone know what Goncalo Amaral is up to at the moment?  Or where he is?

I am suffering some serious withdrawal symptoms, so anything will do.

Haven't heard anything since his interview on Spanish television where he just doesn't appear to be able to get over his obsession with Madeleine's parent ...
Snip
But what I know is that he is not that man. He is another ", says Gonçalo Amaral.

This other indicated by the former inspector is also detained in Germany and he is also a pedophile. According to him, the man was flagged after talking about Maddie in  a pedophile chat room .

Amaral also underlined a new fact about the German signaled: "It is similar, almost equal, to Gerry McCann [father of Madeleine]".
https://www.cmjornal.pt/mundo/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-diz-que-suspeito-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-e-quase-igual-a-gerry-mccann


Interestingly I came across this little snippet from around the same time  https://www.infobae.com/america/mundo/2019/12/07/el-arresto-de-un-policia-sacude-el-caso-madeleine-mccann-a-12-anos-de-la-desaparicion-de-la-nina/  but can find nothing further on the statement ...
Snip
Paulo Pereira Cristovao, who also wrote a book on the mysterious plot , in which he harshly accused the girl's parents, was part of a criminal network that orchestrated several violent robberies on Lisbon properties and at a resort in Cascais. The prosecution proved that her role in the gang was to provide key information about the victims and their homes.
Gonçalo Amaral, who had been the chief investigator of the Madeleine McCann case, is also suspected of participating in the criminal network .
============================================

Wonder what that is about?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 08:54:50 AM
Haven't heard anything since his interview on Spanish television where he just doesn't appear to be able to get over his obsession with Madeleine's parent ...
Snip
But what I know is that he is not that man. He is another ", says Gonçalo Amaral.

This other indicated by the former inspector is also detained in Germany and he is also a pedophile. According to him, the man was flagged after talking about Maddie in  a pedophile chat room .

Amaral also underlined a new fact about the German signaled: "It is similar, almost equal, to Gerry McCann [father of Madeleine]".
https://www.cmjornal.pt/mundo/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-diz-que-suspeito-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-e-quase-igual-a-gerry-mccann


Interestingly I came across this little snippet from around the same time  https://www.infobae.com/america/mundo/2019/12/07/el-arresto-de-un-policia-sacude-el-caso-madeleine-mccann-a-12-anos-de-la-desaparicion-de-la-nina/  but can find nothing further on the statement ...
Snip
Paulo Pereira Cristovao, who also wrote a book on the mysterious plot , in which he harshly accused the girl's parents, was part of a criminal network that orchestrated several violent robberies on Lisbon properties and at a resort in Cascais. The prosecution proved that her role in the gang was to provide key information about the victims and their homes.
Gonçalo Amaral, who had been the chief investigator of the Madeleine McCann case, is also suspected of participating in the criminal network .
============================================

Wonder what that is about?

Oh Dear.  That's a serious accusation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 13, 2020, 09:00:08 AM
Haven't heard anything since his interview on Spanish television where he just doesn't appear to be able to get over his obsession with Madeleine's parent ...
Snip
But what I know is that he is not that man. He is another ", says Gonçalo Amaral.

This other indicated by the former inspector is also detained in Germany and he is also a pedophile. According to him, the man was flagged after talking about Maddie in  a pedophile chat room .

Amaral also underlined a new fact about the German signaled: "It is similar, almost equal, to Gerry McCann [father of Madeleine]".
https://www.cmjornal.pt/mundo/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-diz-que-suspeito-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-e-quase-igual-a-gerry-mccann


Interestingly I came across this little snippet from around the same time  https://www.infobae.com/america/mundo/2019/12/07/el-arresto-de-un-policia-sacude-el-caso-madeleine-mccann-a-12-anos-de-la-desaparicion-de-la-nina/  but can find nothing further on the statement ...
Snip
Paulo Pereira Cristovao, who also wrote a book on the mysterious plot , in which he harshly accused the girl's parents, was part of a criminal network that orchestrated several violent robberies on Lisbon properties and at a resort in Cascais. The prosecution proved that her role in the gang was to provide key information about the victims and their homes.
Gonçalo Amaral, who had been the chief investigator of the Madeleine McCann case, is also suspected of participating in the criminal network .
============================================

Wonder what that is about?
if true that would suggest he is currently an arguido.  Again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 13, 2020, 09:35:37 AM
if true that would suggest he is currently an arguido.  Again.
This is something Ive suspected for some time. Amaral seemed quite close to Christovao .Is it realistic to think other police officers did not at least know what was going on. How much did this thug life mentality pervade through the PJ at that time . Remember we also have Almeida who wrote the interim report, another of amarals pals. found guilty of torture.....but still allowed to keep his job.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 09:40:25 AM
This is something Ive suspected for some time. Amaral seemed quite close to Christovao .Is it realistic to think other police officers did not at least know what was going on. How much did this thug life mentality pervade through the PJ at that time . Remember we also have Almeida who wrote the interim report, another of amarals pals. found guilty of torture.....but still allowed to keep his job.

Amaral and Cristovao were bosom pals at one time.  And then they distanced themselves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 13, 2020, 09:41:44 AM
Amaral and Cristovao were bosom pals at one time.  And then they distanced themselves.

That itself raises questions
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 09:43:08 AM
That itself raises questions

It certainly did for me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 10:25:52 AM
Around the time Madeleine went missing we know the Judicial Police were being kept busy with drug busts. https://www.publico.pt/2007/06/15/sociedade/noticia/portimao-novo-organismo-europeu-colaborou-na-apreensao-de-cocaina-1296844 

As far as I know this was the sort of criminality in which Amaral had a particular expertise and not investigating missing children.
I wonder if this had any bearing on the obvious resentment he continues to nurse for Madeleine's parents all these years down the line.  Despite his notions being in my opinion totally sidelined by the SY and PJ investigation and as he himself has been eager to broadcast, the investigation of suspects not known to anyone outwith the investigation.

Good to see he has apparently kept in touch with at least one of his 'sources within the PJ'.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 13, 2020, 12:04:46 PM
When ever did truth matter Eleanor ?

Truth is now what you can make people believe and those astute enough to question that truth are labelled heretics. It certainly is a tipsy turvy world.

truth has always mattered ...but not to those who I would label gullible. Amaral made many claims...believed by many...but not backed by evidence.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 12:23:15 PM
When ever did truth matter Eleanor ?

Truth is now what you can make people believe and those astute enough to question that truth are labelled heretics. It certainly is a tipsy turvy world.

It never did to some, Faith.  I think that's the point I'm trying to make.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 13, 2020, 12:54:07 PM
truth has always mattered ...but not to those who I would label gullible. Amaral made many claims...believed by many...but not backed by evidence.

The McCanns also made many claims, believed by many, but not backed by evidence.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on April 13, 2020, 01:08:32 PM
The McCanns also made many claims, believed by many, but not backed by evidence.

The McCanns made their claims based on personal & direct experience of the circumstances surrounding Madeleine's disappearance, not as an observer to the aftermath.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 13, 2020, 01:23:34 PM
The McCanns also made many claims, believed by many, but not backed by evidence.

This thread is Re amaral so you are off topic... I think the decision to believe the mccanns or not is based on lots of real evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on April 13, 2020, 01:58:54 PM
And what about Sofia Leal?  I read somewhere that she had bought a B&B in Spain with the book money, but I have no idea if this is true.

She was still working for the Tourist Board in 2016. https://dre.pt/home/-/dre/73013574/details/maximized but I think she was dismissed for poor work attendance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2020, 02:19:06 PM
She was still working for the Tourist Board in 2016. https://dre.pt/home/-/dre/73013574/details/maximized but I think she was dismissed for poor work attendance.

Interesting.  Or not.  Not sure.  She was never going to divorce Goncalo and then she did.  Something to do with Sofia owning half of a house with Goncalo.

And then it all went quiet and now I am wondering where Goncalo might be living.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 03:06:13 PM
if true that would suggest he is currently an arguido.  Again.

Which may explain the silence emanating from Portugal if there is a shred of truth in the allegation.  The Spanish media would not be covered by the same restriction.

It might indeed explain Amaral's presence as photographed outside the court but not why he has not been mentioned by name.
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f89/19/21/66/92/page8_10.jpg)

Although the Spanish press do not have appeared to have been ruled by the same discretion.
Snip
The man was arrested for participating in a criminal network responsible for organizing various robberies of properties and resorts in Portugal . According to information from the Prosecutor's Office, Pereira's role would have been to provide information about the victims of the crimes.

Gonçalo Amaral, chief investigator of the case, is also being investigated for his participation in the same criminal network, but is currently at large.
https://www.24horas.cl/internacional/policia-involucrado-en-el-caso-de-madeleine-mccann-fue-arrestado-y-condenado-a-siete-anos-y-medio-de-prision-3776769
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 13, 2020, 03:08:57 PM
Which may explain the silence emanating from Portugal if there is a shred of truth in the allegation.  The Spanish media would not be covered by the same restriction.

It might indeed explain Amaral's presence as photographed outside the court but not why he has not been mentioned by name.
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f89/19/21/66/92/page8_10.jpg)

Although the Spanish press do not have appeared to have been ruled by the same discretion.
Snip
The man was arrested for participating in a criminal network responsible for organizing various robberies of properties and resorts in Portugal . According to information from the Prosecutor's Office, Pereira's role would have been to provide information about the victims of the crimes.

Gonçalo Amaral, chief investigator of the case, is also being investigated for his participation in the same criminal network, but is currently at large.
https://www.24horas.cl/internacional/policia-involucrado-en-el-caso-de-madeleine-mccann-fue-arrestado-y-condenado-a-siete-anos-y-medio-de-prision-3776769

Is this photo taken recently outside of court
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 03:13:14 PM
Is this photo taken recently outside of court

No I don't think so.  I think it appeared when Cristovao was first charged with the kidnapping offences etc.  I will check.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 03:27:37 PM
Is this photo taken recently outside of court

The caption reads ...
"Former PJ police colleagues Paulo Pereira Cristovão (pictured left) and Gonçalo Amaral, who also authored a book on Madeleine's disappearance (right) pictured outside the Faro Court in 2008. (Photo: Lusa)"
https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges/34181#comments

There are four comments referring to the article which sound a bit outraged please find three below which I think are pertinent to the item in the Spanish press ...

Snip

Of all the pictures available you had to choose one that included Mr. Amaral. You are once again showing your bias against Mr. Amaral. Have you forgotten the Fiasco over the court reports?
===============================================


Really? You're trying to make it look as if Amaral was involved in this?! Why not print a picture of Cristovão with Rogério Alves, the McCanns' lawyer who also defended Cristovão? Now that would be interesting! Poor Portugal News, poor journalism.
===============================================


This is the most appalling piece of "journalism" I have seen in a long time. Outrageous manipulation to insinuate that it is Goncalo Amaral (right) who is being charged, and low and behold, of kidnapping as well.

This is the best example of McCann launched media manipulation in a long row, and it is a disgrace. Ask yourself why the parents of a missing child spend all their time and efforts to destroy the only person who was looking for it.
===============================================


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 13, 2020, 04:21:50 PM
The caption reads ...
"Former PJ police colleagues Paulo Pereira Cristovão (pictured left) and Gonçalo Amaral, who also authored a book on Madeleine's disappearance (right) pictured outside the Faro Court in 2008. (Photo: Lusa)"
https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges/34181#comments

There are four comments referring to the article which sound a bit outraged please find three below which I think are pertinent to the item in the Spanish press ...

Snip

Of all the pictures available you had to choose one that included Mr. Amaral. You are once again showing your bias against Mr. Amaral. Have you forgotten the Fiasco over the court reports?
===============================================


Really? You're trying to make it look as if Amaral was involved in this?! Why not print a picture of Cristovão with Rogério Alves, the McCanns' lawyer who also defended Cristovão? Now that would be interesting! Poor Portugal News, poor journalism.
===============================================


This is the most appalling piece of "journalism" I have seen in a long time. Outrageous manipulation to insinuate that it is Goncalo Amaral (right) who is being charged, and low and behold, of kidnapping as well.

This is the best example of McCann launched media manipulation in a long row, and it is a disgrace. Ask yourself why the parents of a missing child spend all their time and efforts to destroy the only person who was looking for it.
===============================================

Very interesting that amaral is being investigated Re the Christovao case..... Very interesting... What will he supporters say... LOL
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 13, 2020, 04:29:14 PM
She was still working for the Tourist Board in 2016. https://dre.pt/home/-/dre/73013574/details/maximized but I think she was dismissed for poor work attendance.
Lazy shirker.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 13, 2020, 04:31:32 PM
Very interesting that amaral is being investigated Re the Christovao case..... Very interesting... What will he supporters say... LOL
Apart from me saying 'probably nothing' in this post, probably nothing.
If it wasn't for a couple of barrel scrapers dredging up any old tat on him on an obscure forum, I doubt anyone knows or indeed cares. LOL.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 13, 2020, 04:32:24 PM
Lazy shirker.
Hey, Misty did quite a bit of work finding that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 13, 2020, 04:34:42 PM
Hey, Misty did quite a bit of work finding that.
For the avoidance of any doubt I was referring to the Saintly Mother Sophia Leal as a lazy shirker, not our dealrly beloved Misty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on April 13, 2020, 04:37:10 PM
Lazy shirker.

To be fair, I think she may have been ill at that time. Equally she has no responsibility for how Goncalo acted & behaved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on April 13, 2020, 04:46:28 PM
Very interesting that amaral is being investigated Re the Christovao case..... Very interesting... What will he supporters say... LOL

Here is Amaral connected to the upper echelons of Benica FC whose president Luis Filipe Vieira has been made an arguido in the ongoing Operation Lex. (see https://algarvedailynews.com/news/13538-judges-and-football-magnates-arrested-in-operation-lex). Op. Lex also involves Judge Rui Rangel, a co-author of one of Amaral's books & someone who opined on Madeleine's case on Portuguese TV.

http://blogs.xl.pt/bolanaarea/2012/10/21/policia-judiciaria-apoia-luis-filipe-vieira/

The list of members of the Honor Committee for Luís Filipe Vieira 's candidacy is extensive . I won't go into too much detail.

I will only mention the following names: António Correia de Oliveira, Duarte Oliveira Martins, José Vasconcellos e Sousa, Leonel Sérgio Pinto, Luís Coelho Ribeiro, Luís Óscar Morais, Manuel Jesus Carvalho, Miguel Albuquerque de Lemos, Rui Gomes Girão, José Coelho da Costa , Gonçalo Amaral and Vítor Tavares de Almeida.

Do not know? It is likely that they are all inspectors or ex-inspectors of the Judicial Police. One even joined the Golden Whistle Process Special Team.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 13, 2020, 06:09:54 PM

Gimme a G
Gimme an O
Gimme an N
Gimme a Z
Gimme another O
........GGGGOOOOOOOOO TEAM GONZO. WOOO!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 13, 2020, 06:11:45 PM
To be fair, I think she may have been ill at that time. Equally she has no responsibility for how Goncalo acted & behaved.
You can’t dismiss people for being genuinely ill, surely?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 13, 2020, 06:13:58 PM
Gimme a G
Gimme an O
Gimme an N
Gimme a Z
Gimme another O
........GGGGOOOOOOOOO TEAM GONZO. WOOO!
His fanclub don’t like it when you call him Gonzo, it sounds like a muppet (apt in my view, but not in theirs).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2020, 06:16:03 PM
We don't actually know that Amaral has been or is being investigated regarding any criminality but there is precedence of the huge playing down of past peccadilloes and there was little knowledge if any, of his status of arguido during the time he was in charge of the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 14, 2020, 08:43:40 AM
We don't actually know that Amaral has been or is being investigated regarding any criminality but there is precedence of the huge playing down of past peccadilloes and there was little knowledge if any, of his status of arguido during the time he was in charge of the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

Its an interesting development and anaral was close to him...As Ive said before it seems strange that other officers working with Christovoa were unaware what w sgoing on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 14, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Its an interesting development and anaral was close to him...As Ive said before it seems strange that other officers working with Christovoa were unaware what w sgoing on.

Cristovao appears to have been engaged with other PJ Officers in this enterprise.  How did he recruit them in the first place?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2020, 10:34:09 AM
Cristovao appears to have been engaged with other PJ Officers in this enterprise.  How did he recruit them in the first place?

Were I setting up or getting involved in the mafia type criminal enterprise of which Cristovao was found guilty, I would have to know and trust the other criminals involved implicitly.

The cohort of the organisation he was involved with obviously met that requirement and one wonders just how far the tentacles spread out, for how long and encompassing whom.

It was interesting that there was no furore made when Amaral shared a television chat room sofa with individuals who now appear to have fallen foul of the Portuguese State but a photograph showing him with his associate on the start of his fall from grace was enough to set the cat among the pigeons with the resulting spitting of feathers.

If it was a subliminal message from the press it was certainly picked up on by those in the know but I think there might be a little difficulty in pinning the blame for the outcome on Madeleine (or "it") or her parents ... the source is, as always, closer to home than that.

Snip
"This is the most appalling piece of "journalism" I have seen in a long time. Outrageous manipulation to insinuate that it is Goncalo Amaral (right) who is being charged, and low (sic) and behold, of kidnapping as well.

This is the best example of McCann launched media manipulation in a long row, and it is a disgrace. Ask yourself why the parents of a missing child spend all their time and efforts to destroy the only person who was looking for it.
https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges/34181#comments
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 14, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Were I setting up or getting involved in the mafia type criminal enterprise of which Cristovao was found guilty, I would have to know and trust the other criminals involved implicitly.

The cohort of the organisation he was involved with obviously met that requirement and one wonders just how far the tentacles spread out, for how long and encompassing whom.

It was interesting that there was no furore made when Amaral shared a television chat room sofa with individuals who now appear to have fallen foul of the Portuguese State but a photograph showing him with his associate on the start of his fall from grace was enough to set the cat among the pigeons with the resulting spitting of feathers.

If it was a subliminal message from the press it was certainly picked up on by those in the know but I think there might be a little difficulty in pinning the blame for the outcome on Madeleine (or "it") or her parents ... the source is, as always, closer to home than that.

Snip
"This is the most appalling piece of "journalism" I have seen in a long time. Outrageous manipulation to insinuate that it is Goncalo Amaral (right) who is being charged, and low (sic) and behold, of kidnapping as well.

This is the best example of McCann launched media manipulation in a long row, and it is a disgrace. Ask yourself why the parents of a missing child spend all their time and efforts to destroy the only person who was looking for it.
https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges/34181#comments

Did not Goncalo Amaral threaten to abduct the small daughter of his ex girl friend in that infamous phone call when she ended the relationship?

That in itself could be worrying.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2020, 12:01:15 PM
Did not Goncalo Amaral threaten to abduct the small daughter of his ex girl friend in that infamous phone call when she ended the relationship?

That in itself could be worrying.

  🕵️‍♂️🕵️‍♂️🕵️‍♂️ I doubt there will be any trace of that left on the internet now.  What was it ... the golden gun???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2020, 12:43:04 PM
  🕵️‍♂️🕵️‍♂️🕵️‍♂️ I doubt there will be any trace of that left on the internet now.  What was it ... the golden gun???

I was wrong; there is still mention of the episode in various places including on this forum.  Don't know where the 'golden gun' came from in my memory but with or without, it makes illuminating reading when giving thought to the sort of behaviour of which Amaral appears to be capable.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 15, 2020, 07:17:21 PM
I was wrong; there is still mention of the episode in various places including on this forum.  Don't know where the 'golden gun' came from in my memory but with or without, it makes illuminating reading when giving thought to the sort of behaviour of which Amaral appears to be capable.

I think it was The Golden Bullet.  And not actually The Gun.  This is not a very nice man.  Amaral and his friends threatened to to destroy her.  And they tried.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 17, 2020, 09:02:53 AM
I think it was The Golden Bullet.  And not actually The Gun.  This is not a very nice man.  Amaral and his friends threatened to to destroy her.  And they tried.

Any evidence of this alleged incident perchance? Apart from a blog with just one entry and no names, of course.  8(>((
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2020, 09:22:53 AM
Any evidence of this alleged incident perchance? Apart from a blog with just one entry and no names, of course.  8(>((

Didn't J. Morais do a thing about it on her blog which confirmed this particular incident?  It is a long time ago now and unfortunately links to peccadilloes which existed at the time no longer work.

Some posters as on fora such as ours copied the original articles which have kept a record of sorts of what was reported in the Portuguese press at the time.

I don't think we'll ever know the half of it.

These can still be found either by accident or design and are still able to stand as testimony that the "golden bullet" episode - among others - is without doubt a fact which illustrates the nature of Goncalo Amaral and perhaps even those with whom he is associated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 17, 2020, 10:15:33 AM
Didn't J. Morais do a thing about it on her blog which confirmed this particular incident?  It is a long time ago now and unfortunately inks to peccadilloes which existed at the time no longer work.

Some posters as on fora such as ours copied the original articles which have kept a record of sorts of what was reported in the Portuguese press at the time.

I don't think we'll ever know the half of it.

These can still be found either by accident or design and are still able to stand as testimony that the "golden bullet" episode - among others - is without doubt a fact which illustrates the nature of Goncalo Amaral and perhaps even those with whom he is associated.

Thanks Brietta.  J Morais did do a Blog about this and The Phone Call was recorded On Line in Portuguese and then Translated.

The incident at a party held by Amaral when there was an attempt to attack this unfortunate lady was reported in The Portuguese Press.  It happened in the street and was witnessed, although nothing appears to have been done about it.

I put this down to the unquestionable rights of some members of The PJ at the time.

Goncalo Amaral owed shed loads of money to Banks, Mortgage Companies and The Portuguese Inland Revenue at the time which so far does not seem to have been recovered, although what was left of his Book Money was sequestered by The Court and not by The McCanns.

Also in 2002 Amaral and Sofia Leal were found guilty of misappropriating funds belonging to Amaral's brother and I don't suppose that the brother ever got that back either.

So much for The Honour of Goncalo Amaral and his wife.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Thanks Brietta.  J Morais did do a Blog about this and The Phone Call was recorded On Line in Portuguese and then Translated.

The incident at a party held by Amaral when there was an attempt to attack this unfortunate lady was reported in The Portuguese Press.  It happened in the street and was witnessed, although nothing appears to have been done about it.

I put this down to the unquestionable rights of some members of The PJ at the time.

Goncalo Amaral owed shed loads of money to Banks, Mortgage Companies and The Portuguese Inland Revenue at the time which so far does not seem to have been recovered, although what was left of his Book Money was sequestered by The Court and not by The McCanns.

Also in 2002 Amaral and Sofia Leal were found guilty of misappropriating funds belonging to Amaral's brother and I don't suppose that the brother ever got that back either.

So much for The Honour of Goncalo Amaral and his wife.

Anyway ... we have a bit of an idea that in the past Goncalo Amaral has had a few suspect dealings with individuals including as Sofia might say his 'Latin' side ... but in the main involving fraud of some kind or other.

For example, the court case involving his brother and the perjury trial; from both of which he emerged on the losing side.

But he has been very quiet - for him - of late.  So what is he doing now?

According to the Spanish press ...

Snip
Apparently this was a way of acting typical of the former police officer, since, as it is remembered, Paulo Pereira Cristovao was one of the main figures who pointed to Madeleine's parents as responsible for his disappearance.

A case because of its social impact, earned its participation in a recent documentary on Netflix which provides statements on the case of the smallest and also the publication of his book "La estrella de Madeleine" (The Star of Madeleine).

Like this former police officer, Gonçalo Amaral , who was the investigator in charge of Madeleine's case, is also under suspicion of having participated in another criminal network. Despite this, he is released until such information is verified.
https://larepublica.pe/mundo/2019/12/07/madeleine-mccann-policia-que-investigo-el-caso-va-a-la-carcel-por-estar-involucrado-en-red-criminal-desaparicion-portugal-trata-de-personas-rddr/

Certainly raises a thought in my mind about whether or not the imprisoned German paedophile fingered by Amaral, actually is the focus of the Judicial Police and Scotland Yard investigations.
Or is it something entirely different.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 17, 2020, 01:30:49 PM

Was Amaral a dishonourable man?  Or was it just the way of the World in a Post Revolution time?  Were The PJ exempt from question?  One could hardly blame Amaral if this was so.  It was what he was brought up and educated to believe, and perhaps what he hoped for.  After all, the peasants have to be controlled.

I saw some of this during my visits to Portugal in the 70s.  And thought that it was a bit of a laugh.  How could ordinary people be so afraid?  I didn't believe that they could.  But I didn't know that these ordinary people were being Tortured just for the sake of solving a case.

I will never believe that Amaral didn't know that Leonore Cipriano was being tortured.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2020, 02:52:02 PM
Was Amaral a dishonourable man?  Or was it just the way of the World in a Post Revolution time?  Were The PJ exempt from question?  One could hardly blame Amaral if this was so.  It was what he was brought up and educated to believe, and perhaps what he hoped for.  After all, the peasants have to be controlled.

I saw some of this during my visits to Portugal in the 70s.  And thought that it was a bit of a laugh.  How could ordinary people be so afraid?  I didn't believe that they could.  But I didn't know that these ordinary people were being Tortured just for the sake of solving a case.

I will never believe that Amaral didn't know that Leonore Cipriano was being tortured.

If memory serves me well part of the threat levelled by Amaral in the 'golden bullet' audio recording was to life and liberty by planting evidence.
Which would be quite frightening considering that he had the means to do so.  Such a threat if directed at me, would certainly have ruffled my feathers.

Anyway, I think you are right in what you post about a certain attitude of entitlement among some former PJ which appears to be borne out in an interview with an old friend ...

Snip
MF – What really made them mad was being made arguidos.

GA – Now that you know the process, tell me… Under the old Penal Process, how do I ask Kate: "Are you lying when you say you didn't touch the window? As a matter of fact, it was you who opened the window. We have material evidence of that." A question like this forces the constitution of arguido because it invades her sphere of constitutional rights. I have to give her the right not to reply, instead of lying. The only solution was to make her an arguida.

MF – Things were different in my time. She would have been under such an attack that before she realised anything, she'd be in jail.
GA – Right, but in your time, in our old times, investigation was made with fuel. Now we all move on honey.

https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id173.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 17, 2020, 03:32:40 PM

Amaral also told his departing lady friend that if he abducted her daughter then the child would never be seen again.  How did he think he could do this?

In the light of intervening years we have all forgotten so much of how dreadfully smug he was about who he thought he was and how right he was going to be proved to be when short of a hefty smack to whoever he thought was guilty.

One can only thank God that this didn't happen to Kate McCann.  She might well have caved in.  But The World was watching by then.

I am still bemused by it all, but things moved on and ceased to be important beyond his own get out of jail card.  Amaral is now a busted flush.

Leonor Cipriano served 16 years for a murder that she almost certainly didn't commit.  That is the real horror story.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 17, 2020, 05:33:48 PM
Amaral also told his departing lady friend that if he abducted her daughter then the child would never be seen again.  How did he think he could do this?

In the light of intervening years we have all forgotten so much of how dreadfully smug he was about who he thought he was and how right he was going to be proved to be when short of a hefty smack to whoever he thought was guilty.

One can only thank God that this didn't happen to Kate McCann.  She might well have caved in.  But The World was watching by then.

I am still bemused by it all, but things moved on and ceased to be important beyond his own get out of jail card.  Amaral is now a busted flush.

Leonor Cipriano served 16 years for a murder that she almost certainly didn't commit.  That is the real horror story.

 Goncalo Amaral interviewed by Miguel Sousa Tavares.



MST : Let me ask you a question, do you think that in this country many people believes that Leonor Cipriano killed her daughter ?
GA : I think so.
MST : Very few people, Gonçalo Amaral, very few people.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 17, 2020, 07:24:09 PM
Goncalo Amaral interviewed by Miguel Sousa Tavares.



MST : Let me ask you a question, do you think that in this country many people believes that Leonor Cipriano killed her daughter ?
GA : I think so.
MST : Very few people, Gonçalo Amaral, very few people.


And very few people actually did, even in Portugal where no one was allowed to express an opinion, for fear of what would happen to them.

I hope that things have changed somewhat, but I doubt that they actually have.  Portugal has too much to lose and too many past obscenities of actual Justice.
 
Goncalo Amaral was only a very little coq in a very big wheel.  But he was the one who brought it all down.

The rest of them can say what they like but they are no better or more able.

Portugal is now a joke.  There will be no other cases ever taken to a Portuguese Court that will pass unnoticed.

This is the legacy of what was done by Goncalo Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2020, 09:13:23 AM
Does anyone know what Goncalo Amaral is up to at the moment?  Or where he is?

I am suffering some serious withdrawal symptoms, so anything will do.

Well it seems that Goncalo Amaral is playing things very close to his chest at the moment since no-one seems to have any current information about what he has been doing with himself.

Long may it continue ... but it does raise the thought that life might have been so different for so many people had he had the common decency to take that course of action when he was sacked from Madeleine's case back in 2007.

Then since that was partly for shooting his mouth off it seems that is just what he does in any given situation.  Until now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
Well it seems that Goncalo Amaral is playing things very close to his chest at the moment since no-one seems to have any current information about what he has been doing with himself.

Long may it continue ... but it does raise the thought that life might have been so different for so many people had he had the common decency to take that course of action when he was sacked from Madeleine's case back in 2007.

Then since that was partly for shooting his mouth off it seems that is just what he does in any given situation.  Until now.

He’s been vindicated Brietta. I’m sure for him there’s little left to say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2020, 05:55:00 PM
He’s been vindicated Brietta. I’m sure for him there’s little left to say.
In the paralell universe where Corbyn is  a legend...yes
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2020, 07:07:21 PM
In the paralell universe where Corbyn is  a legend...yes

The McCanns took Amaral to court. They lost the case and Amaral won. You may not agree with the verdict but that’s of no consequence. Now the ECHR may still look at the case and the McCanns may even win but they will win against the Portuguese state and the win will detract in no way from the verdict in the libel trial. Amaral will still have been vindicated and will still have said all he needs to say.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2020, 07:34:03 PM
The McCanns took Amaral to court. They lost the case and Amaral won. You may not agree with the verdict but that’s of no consequence. Now the ECHR may still look at the case and the McCanns may even win but they will win against the Portuguese state and the win will detract in no way from the verdict in the libel trial. Amaral will still have been vindicated and will still have said all he needs to say.

My opinion based on looking at other ECHR cases is that the ECHR will be not only critical of the Portuguese Courts but also of Amaral. It is the Mccanns who will therefore be vindicated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2020, 08:01:55 PM
My opinion based on looking at other ECHR cases is that the ECHR will be not only critical of the Portuguese Courts but also of Amaral. It is the Mccanns who will therefore be vindicated.

Whether the court is critical of Amaral, whether it is even within it’s remit, it changes nothing for him. It will not change the verdict of the Portuguese nor his vindication nor that he needs to say not another word.

And with the facts established I take my leave.

Cheery Bye.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2020, 08:13:10 PM
Whether the court is critical of Amaral, whether it is even within it’s remit, it changes nothing for him. It will not change the verdict of the Portuguese nor his vindication nor that he needs to say not another word.

And with the facts established I take my leave.

Cheery Bye.

It is within its remit....I think your posts belong to that parallel universe where corbyn is  a legend. I think this poster got it just about right....I wont give the posters name..


If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2020, 08:31:07 PM
It is within its remit....I think your posts belong to that parallel universe where corbyn is  a legend. I think this poster got it just about right....I wont give the posters name..


If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country.

 (&^&
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2020, 09:18:47 PM
(&^&

You obviously dont know which poster on here said that....do you. I agree with her...its bang on. you shouldnt be so disrespectful to a poster you have so much respect for.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2020, 09:19:35 PM
Whether the court is critical of Amaral, whether it is even within it’s remit, it changes nothing for him. It will not change the verdict of the Portuguese nor his vindication nor that he needs to say not another word.

And with the facts established I take my leave.

Cheery Bye.

Looking at the facts from the other side of the line shows that Amaral is a convicted criminal and many of his known associates are also convicted criminals.  None more so than Cristovao who along with Amaral has dedicated much of his time to advocating that Madeleine McCann is dead and badmouthing her parents on the media circuit for good measure.

What has Amaral been doing of late appears to be not a lot and one can't help wondering why that should be particularly since no-one seems to know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 21, 2020, 09:42:57 AM
(&^&

this was the claim you thought was ridiculous..

If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country.


this post was ande by gunit...and i think on this occasion she is spot on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 21, 2020, 11:31:13 AM
this was the claim you thought was ridiculous..

If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country.


this post was ande by gunit...and i think on this occasion she is spot on

"ande by gunit"?

Don't give up your day job.

 (&^&
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2020, 11:57:50 AM
"ande by gunit"?

Don't give up your day job.

 (&^&

Cut the sarcasm, if you please.  There is no need for it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 21, 2020, 12:39:04 PM
"ande by gunit"?

Don't give up your day job.

 (&^&

I certainly wont..its far too rewarding....Im not a typist....I see you are just trying to deflect from the fact gunit made the post that you thought was so  laughable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 21, 2020, 12:40:26 PM
Cut the sarcasm, if you please.  There is no need for it.

I'm actually fine with it. Its an admission  that the poster cant address the point made in the post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2020, 12:48:25 PM
I'm actually fine with it. Its an admission  that the poster cant address the point made in the post.

I know.  But I mind and I am not fine with it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2020, 01:52:24 PM
I'm actually fine with it. Its an admission  that the poster cant address the point made in the post.

Actually both posts do prove a point.

Initially, when Goncalo Amaral became the almost invisible man ... my thoughts were exactly that ... "If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country." G-unit

Nor does it appear that there is anything anyone can say about his lack of a media profile over the past few months or I'm sure someone would have gone to the bother of posting it.

It really does suggest to me that things have gone quiet as a result of yet another of Cristavao's convictions for serious crime and whether or not Goncalo Amaral is presently also being investigated.

Someone knows whether or not there is any foundation in Spanish press reports from December saying unequivocally he is ...
Snip
Gonçalo Amaral, who had been the chief investigator of the Madeleine McCann case, is also suspected of participating in the criminal network . However, he will remain free until his judicial situation is defined.
https://www.infobae.com/america/mundo/2019/12/07/el-arresto-de-un-policia-sacude-el-caso-madeleine-mccann-a-12-anos-de-la-desaparicion-de-la-nina/

... or someone telling us he is not (maybe even him?)  Should be easy enough one would have thought.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 21, 2020, 04:26:05 PM
Wow, SIL on 50% - did he kill someone??
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 22, 2020, 11:31:27 PM
Wow, SIL on 50% - did he kill someone??

Makes even you wonder!  &%%6
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 23, 2020, 08:39:02 AM
Makes even you wonder!  &%%6
Yes because in the past he has been incredibly rude, transgressing forum rules and the most he has ever received is 5% warning, so this time it must have been very serious indeed. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 23, 2020, 10:02:20 AM
Anyway ... does anyone have anything of interest to say about Goncalo Amaral and his apparent reticence to hit the airwaves of late (really not like him}.

I've speculated on three? options ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 23, 2020, 10:28:07 AM
Anyway ... does anyone have anything of interest to say about Goncalo Amaral and his apparent reticence to hit the airwaves of late (really not like him}.

I've speculated on three? options ...
  • he may be worried about the McCann action in the ECHR and decided to wait for the outcome
  • there may be implications for him arising from the Cristovao affair
  • he may have finally seen the light and realised the wrong path he took regarding Madeleine's investigation and in particular, its aftermath

Love the third option.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 23, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
Love the third option.

He surely must see now just how wrong he was
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 23, 2020, 11:20:44 AM
Love the third option.

I don't think he is a stupid man so I think it has probably been apparent to him for quite some time but the fees for his TV appearances as a Madeleine pundit no doubt came in handy.

Which leads me back to option two.  He did nothing that Cristovao didn't also do like two peas in a pod as regards Madeleine and her family.  I think he may be feeling the heat from that association.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 23, 2020, 11:42:07 AM
Anyway ... does anyone have anything of interest to say about Goncalo Amaral and his apparent reticence to hit the airwaves of late (really not like him}.

I've speculated on three? options ...
  • he may be worried about the McCann action in the ECHR and decided to wait for the outcome
  • there may be implications for him arising from the Cristovao affair
  • he may have finally seen the light and realised the wrong path he took regarding Madeleine's investigation and in particular, its aftermath

As media interest in general has declined I don't find it significant at all that Amaral has made no comment lately. The McCanns and Clarence Mitchell are also keeping quiet.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 23, 2020, 11:49:48 AM
He surely must see now just how wrong he was

I very much doubt it.  Presuming he believed it all in the first place, which I also doubt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 23, 2020, 12:37:41 PM
As media interest in general has declined I don't find it significant at all that Amaral has made no comment lately. The McCanns and Clarence Mitchell are also keeping quiet.

What is significant is that he had been mentioned Re the Christavao case... Which really doesn't surprise me
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 23, 2020, 02:27:59 PM
As media interest in general has declined I don't find it significant at all that Amaral has made no comment lately. The McCanns and Clarence Mitchell are also keeping quiet.

Media interest in almost everything but corona virus has waned but that is recent ... Amaral's radio silence long predates that.

The McCanns and Clarence Mitchell will not speak while Madeleine's disappearance is subject of a live investigation, I think you know that;  unlike Amaral who has never shown the same reticence under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 23, 2020, 06:17:06 PM

Amaral might have been warned of the likely out come of the application to The ECHR.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 23, 2020, 06:49:08 PM
Amaral might have been warned of the likely out come of the application to The ECHR.

That was my assumption until I came across the December Spanish reports associating him with Cristovao's conviction for organised crime.

I think he would be right to be concerned about the ECHR outcome from the point of view of 'losing face' which I think is important to him ... but would that have been enough to silence him.
Don't forget this is the guy who tried to sell the notion without a blush, that Madeleine's body had been smuggled into the church and put into a coffin with a lady's body who was scheduled to be cremated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 23, 2020, 07:03:59 PM
Amaral might have been warned of the likely out come of the application to The ECHR.

I think thats quite possible...i think  a recipe for humble pie might be very useful for some posters
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 23, 2020, 07:51:22 PM
I think thats quite possible...i think  a recipe for humble pie might be very useful for some posters

Let's keep this pleasant please.  Amaral's downfall in whatever form is what I want especially if he has been up to no good with Cristovao.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 23, 2020, 08:04:13 PM
Let's keep this pleasant please.  Amaral's downfall in whatever form is what I want especially if he has been up to no good with Cristovao.

i think my post is pleasant...amaral ahs received a lot of support on this forum...i think i should be allowed to say that the support is misplaced...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 24, 2020, 07:17:42 AM
i think my post is pleasant...amaral ahs received a lot of support on this forum...i think i should be allowed to say that the support is misplaced...

There is nothing wrong with saying that you think the support was misplaced.  I think it was.  But that isn't quite what you said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 24, 2020, 09:16:18 AM
anyone noticed sils not about...hope theres nothing wrong.....hes normally here 24/7
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 24, 2020, 10:12:28 AM
anyone noticed sils not about...hope theres nothing wrong.....hes normally here 24/7

I certainly hope all is well with him and his family.

When he is on form he makes a valuable contribution to the forum;  what stands out for me was the series of photographs he contributed and I was hoping he might have heard some gossip of interest to this thread, but since Portugal is on lock down like us I rather think that unlikely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 24, 2020, 05:19:43 PM
anyone noticed sils not about...hope theres nothing wrong.....hes normally here 24/7
Perhaps he will be back when his 50% warning has been spent.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 24, 2020, 07:30:37 PM
Perhaps he will be back when his 50% warning has been spent.

its not called the Justice Forum for nothing.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 24, 2020, 07:34:57 PM
getting back on topic...goncalo amaral....I wonder why sil called his dog Goncarlo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 24, 2020, 07:42:18 PM
getting back on topic...goncalo amaral....I wonder why sil called his dog Goncarlo.

The dog is actually called Lally which I think is nice.  And let's face it, shouting out "Heel, Gonçalo" on The Algarve might cause some consternation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 25, 2020, 08:45:31 AM
The dog is actually called Lally which I think is nice.  And let's face it, shouting out "Heel, Gonçalo" on The Algarve might cause some consternation.
The dogs called goncalo.... Which it seems he, has, now changed, to lally... Probably for the reason you describe. I really don't understand why anyone following this case, would call their pet goncalo..
Sil might explain when he, returns

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10605.msg528981#msg528981
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 23, 2020, 06:32:11 PM
Apart from me saying 'probably nothing' in this post, probably nothing.
If it wasn't for a couple of barrel scrapers dredging up any old tat on him on an obscure forum, I doubt anyone knows or indeed cares. LOL.



Spot on Gen.

What I would like to know -  what perfect cop are they comparing him with either in the UK or elsewhere
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 23, 2020, 07:15:37 PM


Spot on Gen.

What I would like to know -  what perfect cop are they comparing him with either in the UK or elsewhere

There are no perfect cops ....but there are bad cops ...and thats what I believe amaral is...based on the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 23, 2020, 07:18:12 PM

I don't know why people are still talking about him, considering Scotland Yard have proven Maggie was abducted.
He's 2007's chip paper.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 23, 2020, 07:26:22 PM
I don't know why people are still talking about him, considering Scotland Yard have proven Maggie was abducted.
He's 2007's chip paper.

because sceptics seem to think in sime way hes imnportant but on this occasion i agree  hes 2007 chip paper
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 23, 2020, 07:28:04 PM
I don't know why people are still talking about him, considering Scotland Yard have proven Maggie was abducted.
He's 2007's chip paper.

Is this the same guy who won through in the appeal courts right up to the supreme court?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 23, 2020, 07:30:53 PM
Is this the same guy who won through in the appeal courts right up to the supreme court?

yes the same guy supported by the courts who have an absolutely pathetic record when challenged by the ECHR
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 23, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
yes the same guy supported by the courts who have an absolutely pathetic record when challenged by the ECHR

If the McCanns had put as much effort into basic child care as they have in pursuing some ex detective through the Portuguese civil courts, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 23, 2020, 08:19:54 PM
If the McCanns had put as much effort into basic child care as they have in pursuing some ex detective through the Portuguese civil courts, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
So you d to accept that the McCann's level of childcare.. Which  I consider as poor is about the same as Portuguese justice which I rate also poor
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 24, 2020, 11:21:23 AM
yes the same guy supported by the courts who have an absolutely pathetic record when challenged by the ECHR

Never the less he can't be challenged by the echr,still mights and maybe's no doubt will be the come back.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 24, 2020, 11:59:25 AM
Never the less he can't be challenged by the echr,still mights and maybe's no doubt will be the come back.
Potentially he could be silenced by the ECHR if the court rules in the McCann's favour although not much being said now. The ECHR could also rule that Amarals claims were not backed by evidence and also criticise the SC for statements such as the McCann's have not been ruled innocent. That's a particularly stupid statement imo because suspects even found not guilty in court are not ruled innocent.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 24, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Potentially he could be silenced by the ECHR if the court rules in the McCann's favour although not much being said now. The ECHR could also rule that Amarals claims were not backed by evidence and also criticise the SC for statements such as the McCann's have not been ruled innocent. That's a particularly stupid statement imo because suspects even found not guilty in court are not ruled innocent.

Explain how, where and why  individuals have been silenced by the echr.
lest ye forget.
McCann/Healy v Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 24, 2020, 12:28:52 PM
Explain how, where and why  individuals have been silenced by the echr.
lest ye forget.
McCann/Healy v Portugal.

it really is quite simple. The SC judgement went to great lenghts to show it was complying with ECHR law. If the ECHR rule the SC violated the McCanns human rights then any further opinions by amaral could result in a new case against him then the portuguese courts would have to support the McCanns or show that they had no respect for laws that they used to support amarals claims
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 24, 2020, 02:37:45 PM
Potentially he could be silenced by the ECHR if the court rules in the McCann's favour although not much being said now. The ECHR could also rule that Amarals claims were not backed by evidence and also criticise the SC for statements such as the McCann's have not been ruled innocent. That's a particularly stupid statement imo because suspects even found not guilty in court are not ruled innocent.

This is only speculation D - you don't know what the outcome is going to be just your hope IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 24, 2020, 03:18:10 PM
This is only speculation D - you don't know what the outcome is going to be just your hope IMO.

Thats why i said he could...rather than would. Its not hope at all its opinion based on knowledge. I've looked at quite  a few ECHR cases concerning the balance between articles 8 and 10. Then we have portugals very poor record at the ECHR which gunit showed us a link to. it's just  a matter of time.

berween 1959 and 2015 portugal had 309 cases heard at the ECHR. Only in 13 of those cases did the court rule no violation of human rights....thats very poor
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 24, 2020, 04:27:52 PM
Thats why i said he could...rather than would. Its not hope at all its opinion based on knowledge. I've looked at quite  a few ECHR cases concerning the balance between articles 8 and 10. Then we have portugals very poor record at the ECHR which gunit showed us a link to. it's just  a matter of time.

berween 1959 and 2015 portugal had 309 cases heard at the ECHR. Only in 13 of those cases did the court rule no violation of human rights....thats very poor

But at this moment in time, GA won his appeal against the mccs - therefore what he said still stands.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 24, 2020, 05:17:27 PM
But at this moment in time, GA won his appeal against the mccs - therefore what he said still stands.

What he said was nonsense. 

All that happened was that the Portuguese Court ruled he was entitled to his 'honour'.  It will be interesting to see what the ECHR thinks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 24, 2020, 06:10:29 PM
What he said was nonsense. 

All that happened was that the Portuguese Court ruled he was entitled to his 'honour'.  It will be interesting to see what the ECHR thinks.

So at least you agree GA still has  honor - you are another one really pinning hopes on ECHR imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 24, 2020, 06:12:18 PM
But at this moment in time, GA won his appeal against the mccs - therefore what he said still stands.

Not sure what you mean by "stands". Are you claiming the SC judement means his opinion is correct...it doesnt.
If you read his book and listen to the documentary its clear his opinion is based on his inability to understand the evidence....that's nothing to be proud of.
then we have Pedro da Carmo when he was head of the PJ confirming the Mccanns are not suspects and theres no evidence aginst them. it will be interesting to se what the ECHR say about the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 24, 2020, 06:13:12 PM
So at least you agree GA still has  honor - you are another one really pinning hopes on ECHR imo.

I dont think he has any honor and that isnt what Brietta said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 24, 2020, 06:22:35 PM
Not sure what you mean by "stands". Are you claiming the SC judement means his opinion is correct...it doesnt.
If you read his book and listen to the documentary its clear his opinion is based on his inability to understand the evidence....that's nothing to be proud of.
then we have Pedro da Carmo when he was head of the PJ confirming the Mccanns are not suspects and theres no evidence aginst them. it will be interesting to se what the ECHR say about the case.

Its not in the echr's remit to comment on supposed ongoing criminal investigations is it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 24, 2020, 06:31:51 PM
Its not in the echr's remit to comment on supposed ongoing criminal investigations is it?

the case im referring to is mccanns vs portugal
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 25, 2020, 12:03:32 AM
So at least you agree GA still has  honor - you are another one really pinning hopes on ECHR imo.

You misunderstand me.  I think Amaral has proved categorically that he is not a man who could be described as being honourable ... quite the reverse.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 25, 2020, 12:14:37 AM
Its not in the echr's remit to comment on supposed ongoing criminal investigations is it?

That's interesting you should mention an ongoing criminal investigation bearing in mind that there was a report Amaral was being investigated in the aftermath of Cristovao's crimes.  Have you heard anything further about that domestic action which seems to be under the veil of secrecy legislation and a suspiciously quiet Amaral?

As Davel has pointed out the present ECHR action concerns Portugal ... not Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 06:54:07 AM
That's interesting you should mention an ongoing criminal investigation bearing in mind that there was a report Amaral was being investigated in the aftermath of Cristovao's crimes.  Have you heard anything further about that domestic action which seems to be under the veil of secrecy legislation and a suspiciously quiet Amaral?

As Davel has pointed out the present ECHR action concerns Portugal ... not Amaral.
At last the nettle is grasped.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 08:20:55 AM
That's interesting you should mention an ongoing criminal investigation bearing in mind that there was a report Amaral was being investigated in the aftermath of Cristovao's crimes.  Have you heard anything further about that domestic action which seems to be under the veil of secrecy legislation and a suspiciously quiet Amaral?

As Davel has pointed out the present ECHR action concerns Portugal ... not Amaral.

a suspiciously quiet Amaral?


IMO more a dignified silence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 08:34:55 AM
At last the nettle is grasped.
Amaral will not be involved. But his statements and the validity of them will.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 08:43:41 AM
Amaral will not be involved. But his statements and the validity of them will.

Given there's no sign of Madeleine its hard to question the validity,thats more opinion based, more the validity of a Portuguese citizens right to free speech and all that jazz under their laws.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 08:48:33 AM
Given there's no sign of Madeleine its hard to question the validity,thats more opinion based, more the validity of a Portuguese citizens right to free speech and all that jazz under their laws.

It's very easy to question the validity... From what I've seen of other cases it's whether those statements were based on sound evidence... They clearly were not.... And it's European law here... The balance between articles 8 and 10.
Remember that the right to free speech has limitations
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 09:01:17 AM
It's very easy to question the validity... From what I've seen of other cases it's whether those statements were based on sound evidence... They clearly were not.... And it's European law here... The balance between articles 8 and 10.
Remember that the right to free speech has limitations

The validity cannot be determined until the fate of Madeleine is known.Its about the right of the Portuguese in allowing a book to be published under their laws.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 09:07:27 AM
The validity cannot be determined until the fate of Madeleine is known.Its about the right of the Portuguese in allowing a book to be published under their laws.
Again you don't seem to understand.. It's not Portuguese laws on which the decision will be made... Its ECHR.
And from what I have seen in other cases it will be based on whether amaral statements were based on sound or reasonable evidence. They were not.

then we have the fact that the SC said the presumption of innocense does not apply in civil cases ,  according to the ECHR it does. Where the SC erred imo , was the exclusion of the presumotion of innocence does  apply to cases such as Barry George
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 09:15:49 AM
Again you don't seem to understand.. It's not Portuguese laws on which the decision will be made... Its ECHR.
And from what I have seen in other cases it will be based on whether amaral statements were based on sound or reasonable evidence. They were not

If at some stage its found to be even in part to have been correct,the echr will have egg on its face should it rule against Portugal whilst the case is supposed to be ongoing,anyhow suns out and lots not to do,but some moron or degenerate will no doubt in the form of a mouthpiece in the not to distant future will say that covid crisis will mean a delay like the brexit debacle was supposed to have done.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 09:18:12 AM
If at some stage its found to be even in part to have been correct,the echr will have egg on its face should it rule against Portugal whilst the case is supposed to be ongoing,anyhow suns out and lots not to do,but some moron or degenerate will no doubt in the form of a mouthpiece in the not to distant future will say that covid crisis will mean a delay like the brexit debacle was supposed to have done.

Again you dont seem to understand....madeleines fate is not in question...its whether the statements by amaral were based on reasonable evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 09:41:09 AM
Again you dont seem to understand....madeleines fate is not in question...its whether the statements by amaral were based on reasonable evidence.

Well GA was there - so it is reasonable to say it is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 09:46:37 AM
Well GA was there - so it is reasonable to say it is.

again you dont seem to understand.....its the evidence amaral used to reach his conclusions which are important...his reasoning was flawed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 09:51:59 AM
from amarals book..

Eddie is always the first to be brought onto a site. Once he has discerned the odour that he knows so well, it's Keela's turn to go into action, on the lookout for the slightest whiff of blood. The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it's probably there that the death occurred

so amarl claims that if both dogs alert then its  taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it's probably there that the death occurred...that simply is not true

Almeida told the court in the libel case... The main evidence against the McCann's was the alerts..... Flawed evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 25, 2020, 09:54:24 AM
Amaral will not be involved. But his statements and the validity of them will.

I wonder if a convicted perjurer and a close associate of torturers and convicted criminals of the worst sort can be considered 'dignified' just by dint of keeping his mouth shut for a change.
Or might it be that journalists like Sandra Felgueiras finally realised how they had been used and abused resulting in his invitations to the chat room sofas drying up and the double act of Amaral & Cristóvão lost its erstwhile credibility and became toxic.


Snip
In July 2008, however, the journalist has access to the process that, until then, was a secret of justice. «When I go to see the preliminary result, which Gonçalo Amaral told me about, and which led him to constitute the McCanns as defendants, I see that the last paragraph said that, despite there being 17 alleles in 20, the sample was so insignificant and small that there were several people in the laboratory with the same genetic identification. Therefore, this evidence could not be considered relevant », he explains.
Sandra Felgueiras feels «deeply deceived». This paragraph was instrumental in undermining everything that had been done before. «At no time did Gonçalo Amaral tell me that the sample was so small and criminally irrelevant», he stresses.
https://www.impala.pt/noticias/portugal-e-o-mundo/sandra-felgueiras-maddie-mccann/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 12:18:53 PM
I wonder if a convicted perjurer and a close associate of torturers and convicted criminals of the worst sort can be considered 'dignified' just by dint of keeping his mouth shut for a change.
Or might it be that journalists like Sandra Felgueiras finally realised how they had been used and abused resulting in his invitations to the chat room sofas drying up and the double act of Amaral & Cristóvão lost its erstwhile credibility and became toxic.


Snip
In July 2008, however, the journalist has access to the process that, until then, was a secret of justice. «When I go to see the preliminary result, which Gonçalo Amaral told me about, and which led him to constitute the McCanns as defendants, I see that the last paragraph said that, despite there being 17 alleles in 20, the sample was so insignificant and small that there were several people in the laboratory with the same genetic identification. Therefore, this evidence could not be considered relevant », he explains.
Sandra Felgueiras feels «deeply deceived». This paragraph was instrumental in undermining everything that had been done before. «At no time did Gonçalo Amaral tell me that the sample was so small and criminally irrelevant», he stresses.
https://www.impala.pt/noticias/portugal-e-o-mundo/sandra-felgueiras-maddie-mccann/

Still doesn't alter the fact - he won the case against the mccs his book is still there for all to read.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 12:32:58 PM
Still doesn't alter the fact - he won the case against the mccs his book is still there for all to read.
The case has moved on.. No evidence against the McCann's according to the present investigation..

Amaral convicted of perjury.. Almeida who wrote the first report guilty of torture in another case... Their colleague Christavao convicted of corruption.. Burglary.. Violence.
But of course in your eyes they are all honourable men

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 01:01:09 PM
from amarals book..

Eddie is always the first to be brought onto a site. Once he has discerned the odour that he knows so well, it's Keela's turn to go into action, on the lookout for the slightest whiff of blood. The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it's probably there that the death occurred

so amarl claims that if both dogs alert then its  taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it's probably there that the death occurred...that simply is not true

Almeida told the court in the libel case... The main evidence against the McCann's was the alerts..... Flawed evidence

No's 6 and 7  undisputed facts.

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 01:15:16 PM
No's 6 and 7  undisputed facts.

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].


Just shows how misinformed the Portuguese police were. Duarte tried to point this out.....Gerry tried to point it out...the court wouldnt listen. Amaral and the PJ were told at a meeting with Harrison and Grime the alerts had no evidential value. They wouldnt listen
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 01:33:24 PM
No's 6 and 7  undisputed facts.

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].


Plus....thats a poor translation of.........marcas de odores de sangue humano e de cadáve


it may well be said they marked the odour....but that mark or alert has no evidentail value.

they certainly didnt detect any blood...or caaver in 5a they did detect blood but no cadaver in the car.

i would say sceptics misunderstand what the proven facts say due to the poor translation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 03:43:09 PM
The case has moved on.. No evidence against the McCann's according to the present investigation..

Amaral convicted of perjury.. Almeida who wrote the first report guilty of torture in another case... Their colleague Christavao convicted of corruption.. Burglary.. Violence.
But of course in your eyes they are all honourable men


The case has moved on - what to.

The only way this case moves on is in years - still no further on then than when Maddie went missing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 05:13:17 PM

The case has moved on - what to.

The only way this case moves on is in years - still no further on then than when Maddie went missing.

It has moved on. The McCann's were prime suspects.... There was talk of them being arrested.
They are now not suspects and we have been told there's no evidence against them.
SY are now working with the Pj. SY have told us they believe Maddie was abducted. The case has moved on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 05:56:00 PM
It has moved on. The McCann's were prime suspects.... There was talk of them being arrested.
They are now not suspects and we have been told there's no evidence against them.
SY are now working with the Pj. SY have told us they believe Maddie was abducted. The case has moved on.

The case has moved on.


Yes from 2007 to 2020 - But what is there after £12 mill + spent ....nothing

One story is good till another one is told - you believe your story D ill believe mine.

IMO whatever the evidence you go on about -  GA was on the right track.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 05:58:46 PM
The case has moved on.


Yes from 2007 to 2020 - But what is there after £12 mill + spent ....nothing

One story is good till another one is told - you believe your story D ill believe mine.

IMO whatever the evidence you go on about -  GA was on the right track.

You might think he was on the right but that's all it is... A thought with no real evidence to support it. Speculation.. Based on ignorance as regards amaral. It can be proven he didn't understand the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 25, 2020, 06:13:00 PM
You might think he was on the right but that's all it is... A thought with no real evidence to support it. Speculation.. Based on ignorance as regards amaral. It can be proven he didn't understand the evidence

But it still can't be proven that Maddie was abducted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 06:26:01 PM
But it still can't be proven that Maddie was abducted.

i would say on the balance of probabilities...it can be proven she was abducted..
i would say it can be prove beyond reasonable doubt...amaral was wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 06:29:01 PM
i would say on the balance of probabilities...it can be proven she was abducted..
i would say it can be prove beyond reasonable doubt...amaral was wrong

Go on then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 06:33:48 PM
Go on then.

ive done it all before...several times. Im not trying to convince anyone.
But....If the McCanns went on trial now they would be found not guilty...which would prove amaral wrong.....beyond reasoanble doubt........perhaps some would dispute that but they would need to come up with some real evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 25, 2020, 06:41:13 PM
ive done it all before...several times. Im not trying to convince anyone.
But....If the McCanns went on trial now they would be found not guilty...which would prove amaral wrong.....beyond reasoanble doubt........perhaps some would dispute that but they would need to come up with some real evidence.

I'd like to see some real abduction evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 06:49:29 PM
I'd like to see some real abduction evidence.

Madeleine is missing what more do you want.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 25, 2020, 06:53:47 PM
i would say on the balance of probabilities...it can be proven she was abducted..
i would say it can be prove beyond reasonable doubt...amaral was wrong

So that's on the balance of probabilities - GA was wrong.

Prove it beyond a reasonable  doubt - you can't do
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 25, 2020, 07:09:39 PM
So that's on the balance of probabilities - GA was wrong.

Prove it beyond a reasonable  doubt - you can't do

if the McCanns were tried now on the available evidence they would be found not guilty ...proven beyond reasoanable doubt. Thers no real evidence against them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 25, 2020, 08:04:04 PM
if the McCanns were tried now on the available evidence they would be found not guilty ...proven beyond reasoanable doubt. Thers no real evidence against them

The case isn't really that difficult to solve.

Either the McCanns did it, or someone else did.

No one else did, so that just leaves the McCanns.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on May 25, 2020, 09:09:05 PM
The case isn't really that difficult to solve.

Either the McCanns did it, or someone else did.

No one else did, so that just leaves the McCanns.

Did what?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on May 25, 2020, 09:12:12 PM
The case isn't really that difficult to solve.

Either the McCanns did it, or someone else did.

No one else did, so that just leaves the McCanns.
If it is that simplistic, why in your opinion, are the McCanns still searching for their missing daughter?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 25, 2020, 09:16:52 PM
The case isn't really that difficult to solve.

Either the McCanns did it, or someone else did.

No one else did, so that just leaves the McCanns.
Prove it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on May 25, 2020, 09:18:50 PM
If it is that simplistic, why in your opinion, are the McCanns still searching for their missing daughter?

Hello Anthro
I've asked that question many times.
Still waiting for an answer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 25, 2020, 09:21:22 PM
If it is that simplistic, why in your opinion, are the McCanns still searching for their missing daughter?

They're not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on May 25, 2020, 09:43:45 PM
They're not.

Why do you hold that belief?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 26, 2020, 03:14:31 AM
If it is that simplistic, why in your opinion, are the McCanns still searching for their missing daughter?

I haven't seen them searching anywhere lately.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 26, 2020, 05:59:41 AM
Why do you hold that belief?
There's a supposed active police investigation in place.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 26, 2020, 09:12:10 AM
If it is that simplistic, why in your opinion, are the McCanns still searching for their missing daughter?


But are they - It seems like everyone else to me.

Also, they say Maddie was abducted - so they have to at least say things like we have to keep on looking.

IMO that -  has always been left to everyone else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 26, 2020, 09:19:49 AM

But are they - It seems like everyone else to me.

Also, they say Maddie was abducted - so they have to at least say things like we have to keep on looking.

IMO that -  has always been left to everyone else.

Madeleine's case is the subject of a live police investigation.

Scotland Yard and the Judicial Police are doing all the looking that is necessary.  If they need any assistance during the process I am sure they will ask for it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 26, 2020, 11:03:21 AM
Madeleine's case is the subject of a live police investigation.

Scotland Yard and the Judicial Police are doing all the looking that is necessary.  If they need any assistance during the process I am sure they will ask for it.


Well, suppose your entitled to your opinion B about what is happening.

I mean for a start this live investigation - will have been stopped dead during the lockdown.

Or is it just simply a paper trail and emails - that is actually looking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 26, 2020, 11:35:19 AM

Well, suppose your entitled to your opinion B about what is happening.

I mean for a start this live investigation - will have been stopped dead during the lockdown.

Or is it just simply a paper trail and emails - that is actually looking.

I don't think anyone can argue that the McCann's are suspects or under investigaion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 26, 2020, 12:29:43 PM

Well, suppose your entitled to your opinion B about what is happening.

I mean for a start this live investigation - will have been stopped dead during the lockdown.

Or is it just simply a paper trail and emails - that is actually looking.

The police investigation is to find out what happened to Maddie and I don't see it will ahve stopped dead due the lockdown.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 26, 2020, 01:24:40 PM
The police investigation is to find out what happened to Maddie and I don't see it will ahve stopped dead due the lockdown.

I don't see it will ahve stopped dead due the lockdown.

so how will itt have carried on - ok only 4 of them so social distancing not a prob

It's like I see said the blind man to his deaf daughter....to me IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 26, 2020, 02:10:30 PM
I don't see it will ahve stopped dead due the lockdown.

so how will itt have carried on - ok only 4 of them so social distancing not a prob

It's like I see said the blind man to his deaf daughter....to me IMO.
I'm involved with a police investigation at the moment and it hasn't stopped stone dead... Still collecting evidence and building a case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 26, 2020, 04:01:27 PM
I'm involved with a police investigation at the moment and it hasn't stopped stone dead... Still collecting evidence and building a case


Well I would think it safe to say it is a relatively new investigation - not a 12-year-old one where the goal posts moved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 26, 2020, 04:39:59 PM

Well I would think it safe to say it is a relatively new investigation - not a 12-year-old one where the goal posts moved.

The point is you don't know if the investigation has stopped dead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 26, 2020, 05:40:13 PM
The point is you don't know if the investigation has stopped dead.

The point is you don't know if the investigation  hasn't - stopped dead
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 26, 2020, 05:48:12 PM

The point is that it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 27, 2020, 12:27:04 PM
The point is that it doesn't matter.

How come - I'm sure you don't mean if they are looking for Maddie or not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 27, 2020, 12:30:56 PM
How come - I'm sure you don't mean if they are looking for Maddie or not.

I believe that They already know where Madeleine is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 27, 2020, 06:55:31 PM
I believe that They already know where Madeleine is.

I think you might be right there.

I reckon they've found Joana, Bianca Jones & Shergar as well.

They are keeping them under round the clock surveillance & are just waiting for the right time to rescue them.

Shouldn't be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 27, 2020, 07:04:06 PM
I think you might be right there.

I reckon they've found Joana, Bianca Jones & Shergar as well.

They are keeping them under round the clock surveillance & are just waiting for the right time to rescue them.

Shouldn't be much longer now.

And won't that be a glorious day.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 28, 2020, 05:58:18 PM
I think you might be right there.

I reckon they've found Joana, Bianca Jones & Shergar as well.

They are keeping them under round the clock surveillance & are just waiting for the right time to rescue them.

Shouldn't be much longer now.

Without doubt.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-living-new-life-22071301

Madeleine McCann 'living new life but feels birth parents' concern for her' says psychic
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 28, 2020, 06:07:48 PM
Without doubt.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-living-new-life-22071301

Madeleine McCann 'living new life but feels birth parents' concern for her' says psychic

Jesus wept, what a load of old horse shit.

Another psychic who can see all this bollocks about how Maddie thinks & feels, but still can't see her home address & telephone number.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 29, 2020, 08:40:23 AM
Jesus wept, what a load of old horse shit.

Another psychic who can see all this bollocks about how Maddie thinks & feels, but still can't see her home address & telephone number.
You set a real high bar for the psychics, but a good point.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 29, 2020, 10:23:19 AM
You set a real high bar for the psychics, but a good point.

Not really, Rob.  Madeleine will have distant memories of her own so it isn't actually Rocket Science.  This Psychic is just cashing in on possibilities.

And Spammy is doing what Spammy does.  Not making a lot of sense, as usual.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 29, 2020, 11:21:01 AM
Not really, Rob.  Madeleine will have distant memories of her own so it isn't actually Rocket Science.  This Psychic is just cashing in on possibilities.

And Spammy is doing what Spammy does.  Not making a lot of sense, as usual.

Assuming she's alive.
Which she isn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on May 29, 2020, 12:18:32 PM
Assuming she's alive.
Which she isn't.

Are you Psychic too?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 29, 2020, 11:31:16 PM
Assuming she's alive.
Which she isn't.
What was the phone number and name of the person responsible for her death, since you are psychic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 30, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
You don't have to be psychic to know - Maddie is no longer with us IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2020, 03:20:58 PM
You don't have to be psychic to know - Maddie is no longer with us IMO

A more accurate expression of opinion might read as ...

"You don't have to be psychic to know" - there is a possibility Madeleine may NO longer be with us but in the absence of proof there is every possibility that she may be alive and well.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 30, 2020, 05:02:33 PM
A more accurate expression of opinion might read as ...

"You don't have to be psychic to know" - there is a possibility Madeleine may longer be with us but in the absence of proof there is every possibility that she may be alive and well.

OR

Madeleine may longer be with us but in the absence of proof, of an abduction - she may not be.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 30, 2020, 05:33:35 PM
OR

Madeleine may longer be with us but in the absence of proof, of an abduction - she may not be.

Sorry, your post is a bit garbled. 

I wonder why people can't bring themselves to hope for the best outcome for a now missing young woman and her family.

Anyway, this thread isn't actually about Madeleine.  It is about the presently elusive Amaral.  Wonder if he is in lockup lockdown I can't recall him being so reticent or even so reticent for so long.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 06:52:58 PM


There's plenty of evidence that Maddie is dead.

What evidence is there that she's alive? 
(excluding wishful nonsense dreamt up by psychics.)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on May 30, 2020, 08:23:22 PM

There's plenty of evidence that Maddie is dead.

What evidence is there that she's alive? 
(excluding wishful nonsense dreamt up by psychics.)

There is no evidence that Madeleine is alive.
What would be the evidence that you are referring to that Madeleine is dead?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 08:28:46 PM
There is no evidence that Madeleine is alive.
What would be the evidence that you are referring to that Madeleine is dead?

There is none.  Some very sad people have no hope.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on May 30, 2020, 08:53:05 PM
Has Madeleine’s disappearance been investigated and traced to the initial booking with Mark Warner in England? I have always wondered what the first link in the chain of events would have been.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 08:53:17 PM
There is no evidence that Madeleine is alive.
What would be the evidence that you are referring to that Madeleine is dead?

She hasn't phoned or written home, she hasn't touched her bank account & there have been no confirmed sightings of her in the last 12 years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 08:54:47 PM
There is none.  Some very sad people have no hope.

I still have hope, but last time I expressed it some people got offended, I got a 50% warning & you vowed to delete all my posts in future.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on May 30, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
She hasn't phoned or written home, she hasn't touched her bank account & there have been no confirmed sightings of her in the last 12 years.

So, how does this relate to her being dead?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 09:09:00 PM
I still have hope, but last time I expressed it some people got offended, I got a 50% warning & you vowed to delete all my posts in future.

Did I?  I don't think so.  Your posts aren't worth deleting.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 09:11:36 PM
So, how does this relate to her being dead?

If nobody saw me in more than a decade & I never phoned home or touched my bank account, that would be pretty strong evidence I were dead, don't you think?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 09:13:05 PM
Did I?  I don't think so.  Your posts aren't worth deleting.

You most certainly did. When I said I hoped the McCanns suffered a slow & grizzly demise, remember now?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 09:16:53 PM
So, how does this relate to her being dead?

Spammy isn't all there.  Three year old children don't have Bank Accounts or Credit Cards.  But come what may. Spammy couldn't give a logical answer anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 09:21:44 PM
You most certainly did. When I said I hoped the McCanns suffered a slow & grizzly demise, remember now?

You have proof that it was me, do you?  Although I might have done if I had even seen it.

But from this moment on you may be sure that I will if you continue.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 30, 2020, 09:35:57 PM
You most certainly did. When I said I hoped the McCanns suffered a slow & grizzly demise, remember now?

Also along the lines if you were allowed to remain she'd be off.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on May 30, 2020, 09:36:07 PM
If nobody saw me in more than a decade & I never phoned home or touched my bank account, that would be pretty strong evidence I were dead, don't you think?

In what way are you contributing to the discourse here when you are posting this?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 09:47:08 PM
Also along the lines if you were allowed to remain she'd be off.

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that. Such a shame she isn't a man of her words  8)--)) 8)--))
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 09:51:24 PM
Also along the lines if you were allowed to remain she'd be off.

You can prove this, can you?  Not my style at all.  But please feel free.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 30, 2020, 10:49:39 PM
If nobody saw me in more than a decade & I never phoned home or touched my bank account, that would be pretty strong evidence I were dead, don't you think?
The guy who was abducted as a three year old in China many years ago and who was recently reunited with his parents never once phoned home or touched his bank account either.  I guess he must have been a ghost when he was finally reunited with his family if such things are now proof of death.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 30, 2020, 11:11:28 PM
The guy who was abducted as a three year old in China many years ago and who was recently reunited with his parents never once phoned home or touched his bank account either.  I guess he must have been a ghost when he was finally reunited with his family if such things are now proof of death.

Allow me to educate you.

There's a difference between evidence & proof.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 30, 2020, 11:15:59 PM
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten that. Such a shame she isn't a man of her words  8)--)) 8)--))

This is getting a bit naughty now because you are accusing me of something that you cannot prove and nor did I do.

But you won't be turning this Forum into the likes of The Bamber Forum.  So please do beware.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 07:02:37 AM
You can prove this, can you?  Not my style at all.  But please feel free.
You know as well as I do it was all deleted,it's only words after all,the worst thing to happen? a ban,whoopy doo.
This is getting a bit naughty now because you are accusing me of something that you cannot prove and nor did I do.

But you won't be turning this Forum into the likes of The Bamber Forum.  So please do beware.
See above.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 31, 2020, 08:19:23 AM
Allow me to educate you.

There's a difference between evidence & proof.

You're welcome.
I know the difference between the two, but as you are 100% certain that Madeleine is dead it’s not an unreasonable assumption to make that you believe her absence of phone calls and bank activity are proof rather than evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on May 31, 2020, 10:38:34 AM
Sorry, your post is a bit garbled. 

I wonder why people can't bring themselves to hope for the best outcome for a now missing young woman and her family.

Anyway, this thread isn't actually about Madeleine.  It is about the presently elusive Amaral.  Wonder if he is in lockup lockdown I can't recall him being so reticent or even so reticent for so long.

Oh  @)(++(* garbled I actually pasted the line from your post.

snip
there is a possibility Madeleine may longer be with us but in the absence of proof

I just reversed what you said - that I don't believe Maddie is with us no proof of abduction like GA said

What you don't understand either is I do want the best outcome - and I believe GA would have got it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2020, 12:12:57 PM
Oh  @)(++(* garbled I actually pasted the line from your post.

snip
there is a possibility Madeleine may longer be with us but in the absence of proof

I just reversed what you said - that I don't believe Maddie is with us no proof of abduction like GA said

What you don't understand either is I do want the best outcome - and I believe GA would have got it.

By your own admission you did not post what I said and what you did post was garbled.  What I was curious about is what Amaral is getting up to these days.
When was the last time a transcript of one of his unlearned ravings from the ubiquitous (at one time) chat show studios was released ... was itYou may think Amaral was capable of achieving "the best outcome" and "would have got it" but I am afraid it seems to have slipped your mind that the Portuguese authorities didn't share your confidence.
They sacked him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 31, 2020, 01:55:21 PM
I know the difference between the two, but as you are 100% certain that Madeleine is dead it’s not an unreasonable assumption to make that you believe her absence of phone calls and bank activity are proof rather than evidence.

It's a ridiculous assumption to make.

If I thought that, don't you think I might have offered up that as proof on this forum during the past 7 odd years I've been a member? Or maybe it to the police?

I've never once said there is proof Maddie is dead. (even though she definitely is)

It's possible to be 100% certain of something without proof.

Take Scotland Yard for example, they are certain the McCanns didn't do it, & they don't have any proof.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 31, 2020, 04:05:20 PM
It's a ridiculous assumption to make.

If I thought that, don't you think I might have offered up that as proof on this forum during the past 7 odd years I've been a member? Or maybe it to the police?

I've never once said there is proof Maddie is dead. (even though she definitely is)

It's possible to be 100% certain of something without proof.

Take Scotland Yard for example, they are certain the McCanns didn't do it, & they don't have any proof.
Can you please explain how you can be 100% certain of something without proof?  I mean, I’m an atheist and I’m pretty certain there is no creator but I could never say I was 100% certain I was right because I’m not an arrogant, know-it-all tw...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 31, 2020, 04:29:21 PM
Can you please explain how you can be 100% certain of something without proof?  I mean, I’m an atheist and I’m pretty certain there is no creator but I could never say I was 100% certain I was right because I’m not an arrogant, know-it-all tw...

There are billions of people in the world who are certain some sort of God exists, & they don't have any proof.
They believe such based on evidence.

I'm 100% certain Maddie is dead & wasn't abducted, based on the evidence. I mean, I can't prove it, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

We'll know if I am when the SY surveillance team finally get round to rescuing Maddie & arresting her abductor........ shouldn't be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
There are billions of people in the world who are certain some sort of God exists, & they don't have any proof.
They believe such based on evidence.

I'm 100% certain Maddie is dead & wasn't abducted, based on the evidence. I mean, I can't prove it, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

We'll know if I am when the SY surveillance team finally get round to rescuing Maddie & arresting her abductor........ shouldn't be much longer now.
There's a hurry?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 31, 2020, 05:33:20 PM
There are billions of people in the world who are certain some sort of God exists, & they don't have any proof.
They believe such based on evidence.

I'm 100% certain Maddie is dead & wasn't abducted, based on the evidence. I mean, I can't prove it, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

We'll know if I am when the SY surveillance team finally get round to rescuing Maddie & arresting her abductor........ shouldn't be much longer now.
I can’t prove her parents had nothing to do with her disappearance either but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong.  We’ll know if I am when the Met show up in Rothley with handcuffs and a Black Maria....shouldn’t be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on May 31, 2020, 05:41:27 PM
It's a ridiculous assumption to make.

If I thought that, don't you think I might have offered up that as proof on this forum during the past 7 odd years I've been a member? Or maybe it to the police?

I've never once said there is proof Maddie is dead. (even though she definitely is)

It's possible to be 100% certain of something without proof.

Take Scotland Yard for example, they are certain the McCanns didn't do it, & they don't have any proof.

No you can't be 100% certain of something without proof.   There is no proof Madeleine is dead,  and so she is alive until proved otherwise.  IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 31, 2020, 05:42:48 PM
No you can't be 100% certain of something without proof.   There is no proof Madeleine is dead,  and so she is alive until proved otherwise.  IMO

In my opinion she's dead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 05:47:09 PM
No you can't be 100% certain of something without proof.   There is no proof Madeleine is dead,  and so she is alive until proved otherwise.  IMO

SY in 2017 said through an assistant commissioner to the MET,they have no definitive evidence either way,which means they're still searching for the elusive breakthrough,no indication three yr's later to indicate otherwise,must be the last.last lead to establish her being or otherwise.Still I'm sure some one with some experience of police investigation will explain how after digging up wasteland obviously looking for a cadaver or evidence of, it then turns in to a live child investigation.

Amaral is yet to be proved wrong,£million's I say £millions and not a peep as to her being alive.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 05:51:55 PM
No you can't be 100% certain of something without proof.   There is no proof Madeleine is dead,  and so she is alive until proved otherwise.  IMO

Not sure how that works,Suzi Lamplugh was declared dead,where's the evidence of such?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2020, 06:18:37 PM
SY in 2017 said through an assistant commissioner to the MET,they have no definitive evidence either way,which means they're still searching for the elusive breakthrough,no indication three yr's later to indicate otherwise,must be the last.last lead to establish her being or otherwise.Still I'm sure some one with some experience of police investigation will explain how after digging up wasteland obviously looking for a cadaver or evidence of, it then turns in to a live child investigation.

Amaral is yet to be proved wrong,£million's I say £millions and not a peep as to her being alive.

The police report on which the Public Prosecutors based the archiving report found that he was wrong from start to finish.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 31, 2020, 06:25:36 PM
SY in 2017 said through an assistant commissioner to the MET,they have no definitive evidence either way,which means they're still searching for the elusive breakthrough,no indication three yr's later to indicate otherwise,must be the last.last lead to establish her being or otherwise.Still I'm sure some one with some experience of police investigation will explain how after digging up wasteland obviously looking for a cadaver or evidence of, it then turns in to a live child investigation.

Amaral is yet to be proved wrong,£million's I say £millions and not a peep as to her being alive.

And what was it they did not find "after digging up wasteland"?  The fact that they did not find either cadaver or evidence of one surely must suggest to you that there was not one there to be found.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 31, 2020, 06:59:42 PM
Not sure how that works,Suzi Lamplugh was declared dead,where's the evidence of such?
Have the police said she is certainly dead?  The evidence points to the likelihood, but 100% certitude?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 07:46:05 PM
Have the police said she is certainly dead?  The evidence points to the likelihood, but 100% certitude?

 Today Suzy is officially declared dead. Her father signed the legal papers necessary for a presumption of death allowed after a person has been missing for seven years. 'It marks a finality,' he said. 'It releases us. It allows us to think of Suzy as dead. We loved her very much, but we need to rebuild our lives.'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/suzy-lamplugh-declared-dead-by-her-family-seven-years-ago-today-an-estate-agent-vanished-after-1487612.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 07:47:08 PM
The police report on which the Public Prosecutors based the archiving report found that he was wrong from start to finish.

Yet to be proved wrong,no sign of her since 3/05/2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 31, 2020, 07:49:42 PM
We'll soon know,home by christmas was a claim.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 31, 2020, 07:52:31 PM
We'll soon know,home by christmas was a claim.

They Hoped to have Madeleine home by Christmas.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 31, 2020, 08:16:34 PM
Today Suzy is officially declared dead. Her father signed the legal papers necessary for a presumption of death allowed after a person has been missing for seven years. 'It marks a finality,' he said. 'It releases us. It allows us to think of Suzy as dead. We loved her very much, but we need to rebuild our lives.'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/suzy-lamplugh-declared-dead-by-her-family-seven-years-ago-today-an-estate-agent-vanished-after-1487612.html
So that’s a no then, no certitude.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 01, 2020, 12:43:57 AM
So that’s a no then, no certitude.  Thanks.

I'm 100% certain SY are going to rescue Suzy Lamplugh, Claudia Lawrence & Maddie from the abductor.

Shouldn't be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 01, 2020, 07:14:38 AM
I'm 100% certain SY are going to rescue Suzy Lamplugh, Claudia Lawrence & Maddie from the abductor.

Shouldn't be much longer now.
And I’m 100% certain you write the first stupid and or offensive thought that comes into your head because you are just a troll.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 01, 2020, 08:06:01 AM
Not sure how that works,Suzi Lamplugh was declared dead,where's the evidence of such?

The difference is she was an adult when she disappeared,   so having not got in touch with her family after so long I can understand them believing she is dead.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 01, 2020, 08:07:28 AM
Is there a family whose missing person was a child when she/he disappeared that has declared their child must be dead?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2020, 08:44:41 AM
Is there a family whose missing person was a child when she/he disappeared that has declared their child must be dead?

Usually it's done so the relatives can deal with bank accounts and other matters. That's not really an issue with children; no affairs to clear up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 01, 2020, 11:38:39 AM
By your own admission you did not post what I said and what you did post was garbled.  What I was curious about is what Amaral is getting up to these days.
When was the last time a transcript of one of his unlearned ravings from the ubiquitous (at one time) chat show studios was released ... was it
  • after his terribly embarrassing 'revelation' about the alleged old lady and the alleged cremation?
  • or was it after the revelation of his chum and fellow Madeleine author's depravity courtesy of the Portuguese judicial system became common knowledge?
You may think Amaral was capable of achieving "the best outcome" and "would have got it" but I am afraid it seems to have slipped your mind that the Portuguese authorities didn't share your confidence.
They sacked him.

We will never know what he could have achieved - and for reasons, we don't really know he was moved

Considering he wrote a book on what he believed happened - it may have slipped your mind it's still there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2020, 11:45:38 AM
Usually it's done so the relatives can deal with bank accounts and other matters. That's not really an issue with children; no affairs to clear up.

Being declared dead by a court is not proof of death.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2020, 12:56:37 PM
Being declared dead by a court is not proof of death.

Hello stranger! Been having fun elsewhere?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2020, 02:28:17 PM
Hello stranger! Been having fun elsewhere?

I've been having fun everywhere....I love the lockdown
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 01, 2020, 02:31:31 PM
We will never know what he could have achieved - and for reasons, we don't really know he was moved

Considering he wrote a book on what he believed happened - it may have slipped your mind it's still there.

Actually ... I believe some could hardly contain themselves waiting for the sequel.  Wonder what happened to that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 01, 2020, 03:00:30 PM
Actually ... I believe some could hardly contain themselves waiting for the sequel.  Wonder what happened to that?

Could be writing it now - are you waiting for it.

Along with him being a reserved man it maybe that's what he is up to at the moment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2020, 03:06:49 PM
Actually ... I believe some could hardly contain themselves waiting for the sequel.  Wonder what happened to that?

I think he might have been warned off.  It is  a few years ago now.  Or he might have got writers block.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2020, 03:09:43 PM
I've been having fun everywhere....I love the lockdown

So do I.  I try to look pained when others have to do my shopping, but it's becoming increasingly difficult.

Log Live Lockdown.  Which is what I intend to do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 01, 2020, 04:13:11 PM
I think he might have been warned off.  It is  a few years ago now.  Or he might have got writers block.

Maybe he is looking for his Ace.  It never did turn up, did it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 01, 2020, 04:33:02 PM
Yes there are.

I've posted a list twice but the mods keep deleting it.

Keith Bennett.

Genette Tate.

Cheryl Grimmer.
Didn’t Hindley and Brady confess to involvement in Keith Bennett’s murder?  If so it would not be surprising if his  mother accepted he was dead.  In Genette Tate’s case the parents only expressed their belief she was no longer alive 25 years after she went missing.  Don’t know about the other case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 01, 2020, 04:35:16 PM
Yes there are.

I've posted a list twice but the mods keep deleting it.

Keith Bennett.

Genette Tate.

Cheryl Grimmer.
And you’re completely wrong about the last case

In the 2000s, New South Wales Police Minister Michael Gallagher stated that it is entirely possible that both Cheryl and her kidnapper are dead but expressed hope that someone may know the truth. He also theorised that Cheryl may be alive and free and encouraged anybody who believes they may be her to come forward.[12] One of Cheryl's characteristics that was cited as a possible identifier was a belly button which protruded one centimetre due to a medical condition, which may or may not have been corrected by surgery.[13] In 2008 a woman believed that she might be Cheryl but, after submitting a swab taken from her inside cheek, proved not to be a match to Cheryl's DNA.[16]
In May 2011, a coroner formally ruled that Cheryl had died shortly after going missing due to an undetermined cause and recommended that police reopen the investigation—Carole Grimmer stated that she believed her daughter was still alive.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2020, 04:57:12 PM
Maybe he is looking for his Ace.  It never did turn up, did it?

Surely there is more than one Ace in the Pack.  Which Ace was it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 01, 2020, 05:43:49 PM
Could be writing it now - are you waiting for it.

Along with him being a reserved man it maybe that's what he is up to at the moment.

How do you know he is a 'reserved' man?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 01, 2020, 10:01:35 PM

Say what you like about Goncarlo Amaral, rubbish cop, drunkard, convicted perjurer.

But at least - in my opinion - we can surmise he hasn't faked his daughters abduction & hidden her body.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 01, 2020, 10:24:21 PM

Say what you like about Goncarlo Amaral, rubbish cop, drunkard, convicted perjurer.

But at least - in my opinion - we can surmise he hasn't faked his daughters abduction & hidden her body.

We can’t be 100% certain he isn’t also a wife beater and adulterer who endangers his children’s lives by driving them around while drunk though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2020, 10:29:07 PM
We can’t be 100% certain he isn’t also a wife beater and adulterer who endangers his children’s lives by driving them around while drunk though.

I thought those accusations from his wife in writing were recorded in The Log at Portimao Police Station.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 01, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
I thought those accusations from his wife in writing were recorded in The Log at Portimao Police Station.
His supporters dispute it, make out it’s a forgery or some such nonsense.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2020, 10:57:24 PM
His supporters dispute it, make out it’s a forgery or some such nonsense.

I see.  So The Portimao PJ Logged a Forged Letter from the lovely Sofa.  That was before the Face Lift and Make Over, of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 02, 2020, 06:06:29 AM
I see.  So The Portimao PJ Logged a Forged Letter from the lovely Sofa.  That was before the Face Lift and Make Over, of course.
Miaow,biatch, has Jessy Pinkman would say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2020, 07:20:06 AM
Miaow,biatch, has Jessy Pinkman would say.

Nothing wrong with a face lift.  Everyone should have one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 02, 2020, 08:09:08 AM
Say what you like about Goncarlo Amaral, rubbish cop, drunkard, convicted perjurer.

But at least - in my opinion - we can surmise he hasn't faked his daughters abduction & hidden her body.

As a convicted perjurer in the case of a missing child,  IMO he should never have been investigating another case of a missing child.

He lied again though didn't he?  He said the McCann's had given Madeleine Calpol that made her drowsy  Calpol doesn't cause drowsiness it treats pain.  There is no evidence that Madeleine could hear her father speaking out in the road.  There was not 100% DNA of Madeleine in 5a and as far as I know there is no proof Eddie alerted to cadaver scent.   He claimed Madeleine must have been kept in something such as a freezer [the McCann's didn't have a freezer]  or somewhere  cool [like where?]  Then he says the McCann's moved Madeleine from the place where no one could find her in the hired car and took her somewhere else.   Please,  do you believe all this?  Seriously?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2020, 08:30:38 AM
As a convicted perjurer in the case of a missing child,  IMO he should never have been investigating another case of a missing child.

He lied again though didn't he?  He said the McCann's had given Madeleine Calpol that made her drowsy  Calpol doesn't cause drowsiness it treats pain.  There is no evidence that Madeleine could hear her father speaking out in the road.  There was not 100% DNA of Madeleine in 5a and as far as I know there is no proof Eddie alerted to cadaver scent.   He claimed Madeleine must have been kept in something such as a freezer [the McCann's didn't have a freezer]  or somewhere  cool [like where?]  Then he says the McCann's moved Madeleine from the place where no one could find her in the hired car and took her somewhere else.   Please,  do you believe all this?  Seriously?

There's no need to believe Amaral's speculations any more than there's a need to believe the McCann's speculations.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 02, 2020, 09:23:35 AM
Nothing wrong with a face lift.  Everyone should have one.
I'm not sure the Vorderman look would suit me.Face like a smacked ass is more my style.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2020, 09:29:41 AM
I'm not sure the Vorderman look would suit me.Face like a smacked ass is more my style.

How's about Katie Price?  Lots to choose from there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 02, 2020, 01:42:28 PM
There's no need to believe Amaral's speculations any more than there's a need to believe the McCann's speculations.

I think you will find there is no speculation about the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.  The speculation arises as to the manner of how she disappeared.  Amaral did not require to speculate.  All he had to do was to follow evidence.

How did he go about doing that ... given that he set such great store in making it up as he went along by for example the Calpol nonsense.
He really was a bit of an embarrassment both to himself and the Judicial Police and I don't think his bosses could wait to jump at the chance of sacking him when he actually got too much.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2020, 01:56:16 PM
I think you will find there is no speculation about the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.  The speculation arises as to the manner of how she disappeared.  Amaral did not require to speculate.  All he had to do was to follow evidence.

How did he go about doing that ... given that he set such great store in making it up as he went along by for example the Calpol nonsense.
He really was a bit of an embarrassment both to himself and the Judicial Police and I don't think his bosses could wait to jump at the chance of sacking him when he actually got too much.

What on earth possessed them to put Amaral anywhere near The Case.  Detectives aren't supposed to speculate.  The McCanns can do nothing else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 02, 2020, 03:56:44 PM
There's no need to believe Amaral's speculations any more than there's a need to believe the McCann's speculations.
Apart from believing their daughter was abducted, possibly by paedophile(s), what speculations by the McCanns are you referring to?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 02, 2020, 06:42:44 PM
I think you will find there is no speculation about the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.  The speculation arises as to the manner of how she disappeared.  Amaral did not require to speculate.  All he had to do was to follow evidence.

How did he go about doing that ... given that he set such great store in making it up as he went along by for example the Calpol nonsense.
He really was a bit of an embarrassment both to himself and the Judicial Police and I don't think his bosses could wait to jump at the chance of sacking him when he actually got too much.


Amaral said that the fact that McCanns would be considered as "charged" created a turning point in the investigation between the Portuguese and English police. "There was a spoken understanding between two policemen to continue the line of investigation seriously, facing the possibility that her death had occurred in the apartament but, suddenly, the English changed course without any coherent technical explanation. It was always strange how the couple were treated, even after they were considered suspects, and the police information to which they occasionally had access."

That's what happened - I wonder why the sudden change without a reason why
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 02, 2020, 07:37:18 PM
I think you will find there is no speculation about the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.  The speculation arises as to the manner of how she disappeared.  Amaral did not require to speculate.  All he had to do was to follow evidence.

How did he go about doing that ... given that he set such great store in making it up as he went along by for example the Calpol nonsense.
He really was a bit of an embarrassment both to himself and the Judicial Police and I don't think his bosses could wait to jump at the chance of sacking him when he actually got too much.
and all that business about the MI5 interfering with the investigation!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 02, 2020, 08:41:37 PM

Amaral said that the fact that McCanns would be considered as "charged" created a turning point in the investigation between the Portuguese and English police. "There was a spoken understanding between two policemen to continue the line of investigation seriously, facing the possibility that her death had occurred in the apartament but, suddenly, the English changed course without any coherent technical explanation. It was always strange how the couple were treated, even after they were considered suspects, and the police information to which they occasionally had access."

That's what happened - I wonder why the sudden change without a reason why

It is clear that the fact is that the English understood the forensic evidence and Amaral in his incompetence did not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 03, 2020, 12:51:13 AM
It is clear that the fact is that the English understood the forensic evidence and Amaral in his incompetence did not.

And that, kizzy, is probably why there was a sudden splitting of the ways between Amaral and the British police..

The dogs reactions proved nothing.  NOWT … Amaral did not understand that there was no proof of any guilt on the Mccanns part, but kept on pushing the dogs reactions as proof.

The British did understand that there was nothing pointing to Madeleines death in the apartment and almost certainly did not want to be part of a major injustice.   Maybe at a similar time, they heard about Amaral himself being convicted for lying in Court (perjury) and learned about the wicked torture of Leonor Cipriano?   


Also maybe they learned about the injustices against Michael Cook, as recorded in our own Parliaments Hansard.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199293/cmhansrd/1992-06-09/Debate-20.html

Two very dicey Court cases over there in PT, both with two little girls vanishing and both with extreme torture to the accused.  Michael Cook never caved in, brave man. 

Leonor, was also subjected to extreme torture, but it took IIRC 24 hours before she caved in.  Please correct me if I have that torture period incorrect.   The minute the PJ left her at the prison again, she immediately told the prison Governor that she had not fallen down stairs as claimed, but had been brutally tortured to obtain a confession.  Amaral was in charge of this.


I wonder that the British police stuck with Amaral for so long


Neither Michael nor Leonor had any pointers to their being involved and both were vulnerable.   
I wonder, was Amaral on the Michael Cook case?

Who knows, but maybe the British police decided with nothing against The Mccanns and this obvious massive misunderstanding on Amarals part, that it was time to withdraw from the Amaral/British police relationship ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2020, 08:15:57 AM
and all that business about the MI5 interfering with the investigation!

Smoke and Mirrors.  Impossible to prove or disprove.  And designed to make Amaral look like David against Goliath.  But without the original end result.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 02:45:29 PM
It is clear that the fact is that the English understood the forensic evidence and Amaral in his incompetence did not.

Well why has that neer been publicly said - why was the book allowed to stand

Why was that not part of the mccs defense - that he didn't understand the evidence?

The book wrote on his belief in the investigation - and is still there to read.

So it is not as clear as you try to make out - the book obviously can't be disputed. [any of it]

The only ones who have tried that is the mccs. - not SY or anyone else
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 02:50:52 PM
And that, kizzy, is probably why there was a sudden splitting of the ways between Amaral and the British police..

The dogs reactions proved nothing.  NOWT … Amaral did not understand that there was no proof of any guilt on the Mccanns part, but kept on pushing the dogs reactions as proof.

The British did understand that there was nothing pointing to Madeleines death in the apartment and almost certainly did not want to be part of a major injustice.   Maybe at a similar time, they heard about Amaral himself being convicted for lying in Court (perjury) and learned about the wicked torture of Leonor Cipriano?   


Also maybe they learned about the injustices against Michael Cook, as recorded in our own Parliaments Hansard.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199293/cmhansrd/1992-06-09/Debate-20.html

Two very dicey Court cases over there in PT, both with two little girls vanishing and both with extreme torture to the accused.  Michael Cook never caved in, brave man. 

Leonor, was also subjected to extreme torture, but it took IIRC 24 hours before she caved in.  Please correct me if I have that torture period incorrect.   The minute the PJ left her at the prison again, she immediately told the prison Governor that she had not fallen down stairs as claimed, but had been brutally tortured to obtain a confession.  Amaral was in charge of this.


I wonder that the British police stuck with Amaral for so long


Neither Michael nor Leonor had any pointers to their being involved and both were vulnerable.   
I wonder, was Amaral on the Michael Cook case?

Who knows, but maybe the British police decided with nothing against The Mccanns and this obvious massive misunderstanding on Amarals part, that it was time to withdraw from the Amaral/British police relationship ?

Again Sadie - if Ameral got it so wrong why has British police never done anything about The Truth Of The Lie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 03, 2020, 03:48:29 PM
Well why has that neer been publicly said - why was the book allowed to stand

Why was that not part of the mccs defense - that he didn't understand the evidence?

The book wrote on his belief in the investigation - and is still there to read.

So it is not as clear as you try to make out - the book obviously can't be disputed. [any of it]

The only ones who have tried that is the mccs. - not SY or anyone else
The book was allowed to stand because Gonc's right to write any old shite was perceived by the PT court to be greater than the McCanns' right not to be publicly accused of hiding their child's body.    The McCanns weren't on trial so why do you ask about their defence?  They were defending nothing, Amaral was the defendant.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 03, 2020, 03:49:44 PM
Again Sadie - if Ameral got it so wrong why has British police never done anything about The Truth Of The Lie.
What on earth could the British police do about some PT ex-cop's book even if they'd wanted to??
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 04:00:29 PM
The book was allowed to stand because Gonc's right to write any old shite was perceived by the PT court to be greater than the McCanns' right not to be publicly accused of hiding their child's body.    The McCanns weren't on trial so why do you ask about their defence?  They were defending nothing, Amaral was the defendant.

Oi, watch your language - what he put is what he the cop on the case believed had happened. [no abduction]

The mccs tried to have the book banned - they failed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 04:00:51 PM
What on earth could the British police do about some PT ex-cop's book even if they'd wanted to??

Exactly - the British police could do nothing about what was said about them because...... it was true.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 03, 2020, 04:22:31 PM
Exactly - the British police could do nothing about what was said about them because...... it was true.
@)(++(*  Which part was true? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 03, 2020, 04:24:47 PM
Oi, watch your language - what he put is what he the cop on the case believed had happened. [no abduction]

The mccs tried to have the book banned - they failed.
Yes I'm not disputing any of that but you asked why the book was allowed to stand and I just explained it to you.  I also explained that the McCanns were not the defendants as you seemed unaware of this.  Happy to help as always.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 04:51:47 PM
Yes I'm not disputing any of that but you asked why the book was allowed to stand and I just explained it to you.  I also explained that the McCanns were not the defendants as you seemed unaware of this.  Happy to help as always.

Well, let's say why didn't the mccs put as one of the reasons wanting it banned -

Is because GA didn't understand the evidence and it wasn't true - they didn't.

Thanks for your help though VS  %56&
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 03, 2020, 04:52:33 PM
@)(++(*  Which part was true?


Try reading chapter 6 - The arrival of the English police. and a few more chapters mentioning them,



snip
On May 14th, Kate Healy is indignant about the attitude of the liaison officer, who asks her where her daughter is. Neither she nor her husband accepts anyone doubting their word. The officer will be sent packing - and his colleague too - a week after his arrival. That attitude is, to say the least, shocking on the part of parents confronted by such a situation, that, what is more, is in a foreign country. Those two police officers, who distinguished themselves through long experience in the management of situations of kidnap and abduction, had been, all the same, entirely at their disposal; they provided daily logistical and legal support, and afforded them all the help they could have needed.

snip


As time went by, we noticed that a certain number of the police officers sent to Portugal were poorly informed about the progress of the investigation. One of them who - like the majority - was coming to Portugal for the first time, was wearing a green and yellow rubber wrist band, bought for £2, which he played with nervously. The inscription read, "Look for Madeleine." Some of his colleagues told him that he would soon get rid of it. As a matter of fact, he took it off as soon as he got properly into the investigation and he had learned about the evidence placing doubt on the theory of abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 03, 2020, 04:54:04 PM

Try reading chapter 6 - The arrival of the English police. and a few more chapters mentioning them,



snip
On May 14th, Kate Healy is indignant about the attitude of the liaison officer, who asks her where her daughter is. Neither she nor her husband accepts anyone doubting their word. The officer will be sent packing - and his colleague too - a week after his arrival. That attitude is, to say the least, shocking on the part of parents confronted by such a situation, that, what is more, is in a foreign country. Those two police officers, who distinguished themselves through long experience in the management of situations of kidnap and abduction, had been, all the same, entirely at their disposal; they provided daily logistical and legal support, and afforded them all the help they could have needed.

snip


As time went by, we noticed that a certain number of the police officers sent to Portugal were poorly informed about the progress of the investigation. One of them who - like the majority - was coming to Portugal for the first time, was wearing a green and yellow rubber wrist band, bought for £2, which he played with nervously. The inscription read, "Look for Madeleine." Some of his colleagues told him that he would soon get rid of it. As a matter of fact, he took it off as soon as he got properly into the investigation and he had learned about the evidence placing doubt on the theory of abduction.
And all this can be independently verified as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, by whom exactly?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2020, 05:17:19 PM
Well why has that neer been publicly said - why was the book allowed to stand

Why was that not part of the mccs defense - that he didn't understand the evidence?

The book wrote on his belief in the investigation - and is still there to read.

So it is not as clear as you try to make out - the book obviously can't be disputed. [any of it]

The only ones who have tried that is the mccs. - not SY or anyone else

Interesting you should say so and interesting how after so many years you are still getting it so wrong.

Just how wrong is illustrated by the work being carried out on Madeleine McCann's disappearance since her case became very, very active in 2013 and remains so today ... and all started by the untiring efforts of Madeleine's parents to get something done on her behalf.

Amaral was sacked and later retired allegedly to write his self serving book about a case he handled incompetently from start to his finish.
Cristovao wrote a highly informative book about a police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance which he should have known nothing about at the time of writing.

Both these commentators on Madeleine McCann's very lucrative case for them are publicly silent just now ... in Cristovao's case the reason is probably obvious ... I wonder why Amaral is so quiet though.  Any ideas on that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 03, 2020, 05:26:01 PM
And all this can be independently verified as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, by whom exactly?

Come on VS ... it is after all a book about lies according to the title ... and who better to write a book full of lies than the author the Portuguese law courts awarded a conviction to for telling them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 03, 2020, 05:34:49 PM
Again Sadie - if Ameral got it so wrong why has British police never done anything about The Truth Of The Lie.

Because it was The truth of the lie and never anything to prove otherwise.  Amaral had no proof.  Ever.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 03, 2020, 07:19:16 PM
BBC BREAKING NEWS

A 43-year-old German prisoner who travelled around Portugal in a camper van is now the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Police believe he was in the area where the three-year-old was last seen in May 2007.
They are appealing for information about the van and the suspect's other vehicle, a Jaguar.
The man transferred it to someone else's name the day after she vanished.
"Someone out there knows a lot more than they're letting on,"said DCI Mark Cranwell, who's leading the Met inquiry.
The force said it remained a "missing persons" investigation because it doesn't have "definitive evidence" as to whether Madeleine is alive or not.
However, German investigators at the Federal Criminal Police Office, the Bundeskriminalamt (BKA), have classed it as a "murder inquiry".
■   More funds pledged for Madeleine McCann search
■   McCanns mark 10 years without Madeleine
■   Madeleine McCann: Timeline and search maps
Scotland Yard said the German authorities had taken the lead on this aspect of the case because the German suspect was in custody in their country.
Detectives said he was in jail for an "unrelated matter" and had "previous convictions", but they declined to supply more details.
'Critical' information
An appeal on German television was broadcast this evening at 19:15 BST.
DCI Cranwell said the prisoner, then aged 30, frequented the Algarve between 1995 and 2007, staying for "days upon end" in his camper van and living a "transient lifestyle".
He was in the Praia de Luz area where the McCann family was staying when she disappeared and received a phone call at 7.32pm, which ended at 8.02pm.
Police have released details of the suspect's phone number and the number he dialled saying any information about them could be "critical" to the inquiry.
They also want the person who called the suspect to come forward.
"They're a key witness and we urge them to get in touch," said DCI Cranwell.
"Some people will know the man we're describing today... you may be aware of some of the things he's done," he said.
"He may have confided in you about the disappearance of Madeleine.
"More than 13 years have passed and your loyalties may have changed," he added.
"Now is the time to come forward."
Police said the suspect was one of 600 people that detectives on the inquiry, known as Operation Grange, originally looked at, though he had not been a suspect.
After an appeal in 2017, "significant" fresh information about him was provided.
Since then, Met detectives have carried out "extensive inquiries" in Portugal and Germany in order to gather more details about him.
Scotland Yard said they were trying to "prove or disprove" his involvement in the case and retained an "open mind".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 04, 2020, 12:37:13 PM
It appears that Amaral retained some inside connection with the case as he referred to this suspect a year ago when he spoke to Mark Saunokonoko;

https://www.9news.com.au/national/madeleine-mccann-german-suspect-a-scapegoat-portugal-detective-goncalo-amaral-claims-maddie-podcast/0ea5ef10-8717-4cfb-adea-a1c8baf2d357
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 04, 2020, 01:26:28 PM
It appears that Amaral retained some inside connection with the case as he referred to this suspect a year ago when he spoke to Mark Saunokonoko;

https://www.9news.com.au/national/madeleine-mccann-german-suspect-a-scapegoat-portugal-detective-goncalo-amaral-claims-maddie-podcast/0ea5ef10-8717-4cfb-adea-a1c8baf2d357

it would be rather odd if he hadnt....i wouldnt trust amaral's opinion on whether the suspect is a scapegoat. he is just  a little biased
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 01:41:09 PM
it would be rather odd if he hadnt....i wouldnt trust amaral's opinion on whether the suspect is a scapegoat. he is just  a little biased

Well as yet they have no evidence against him so at the mo I would say that is what he is a scapegoat.


Speaking exclusively with nine.com.au, Mr Amaral hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20m London Metropolitan Police search for Maddie. He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.
"[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now," Mr Amaral said.
"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 04, 2020, 01:43:02 PM
Enter Christian Brueckner

(https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/PRI_153607665.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=644%2C647&ssl=1)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1268516789438353408/h6gQNvqo?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 04, 2020, 02:28:09 PM
Well as yet they have no evidence against him so at the mo I would say that is what he is a scapegoat.


Speaking exclusively with nine.com.au, Mr Amaral hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20m London Metropolitan Police search for Maddie. He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.
"[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now," Mr Amaral said.
"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."

they have said they do have evidence...I will wait till i hear it before coming to any conclusion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 02:39:39 PM
they have said they do have evidence...I will wait till i hear it before coming to any conclusion

Well as said previously circumstantial - that was the case at 1 o'clock.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 04, 2020, 02:47:54 PM
Well as said previously circumstantial - that was the case at 1 o'clock.

Who said circumstantial... Are you making things up
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 02:56:07 PM
Who said circumstantial... Are you making things up

Forgot if you don't like something you call posters liers - I'm only repeating sky news so are they making it up

But it shows that after three years, though they have a good deal of circumstantial evidence against the suspect, they are struggling to find hard evidence.


https://news.sky.com/story/christian-b-what-we-know-about-jailed-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12000267
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 04, 2020, 03:07:19 PM
Forgot if you don't like something you call posters liers - I'm only repeating sky news so are they making it up

But it shows that after three years, though they have a good deal of circumstantial evidence against the suspect, they are struggling to find hard evidence.


https://news.sky.com/story/christian-b-what-we-know-about-jailed-german-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12000267

We don't know what the German police have
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 04, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
it would be rather odd if he hadnt....i wouldnt trust amaral's opinion on whether the suspect is a scapegoat. he is just  a little biased
Quite.  Imagine if they have evidence on this guy, it goes to court and he is found guilty, a suspect that the PT police ruled out 12 years ago.  It won’t  exactly enhance the reputation of the PT Plod.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 03:30:35 PM
We don't know what the German police have

well you can read - no hard evidence circumstantial
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 04, 2020, 03:53:48 PM
well you can read - no hard evidence circumstantial
Are you  pleased that there is no hard evidence, or do you hope that the recent appeal provides the police with enough evidence to press charges? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 03:58:12 PM
Are you  pleased that there is no hard evidence, or do you hope that the recent appeal provides the police with enough evidence to press charges?

Are you pleased they may have a scapegoat. - to prove you right.

Not interested in what really happened. - another one judge and jury.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 04, 2020, 04:00:15 PM
Are you pleased they may have a scapegoat. - to prove you right.

Not interested in what really happened. - another one judge and jury.
"Scapegoat" appears to be the word of the moment.  On what basis have you, the judge and jury, decided that this violent rapist and paedophile is the victim in this case?
Are you saying you're not really interested in what happened?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 04, 2020, 04:07:00 PM
Are you  pleased that there is no hard evidence, or do you hope that the recent appeal provides the police with enough evidence to press charges?

I've previously said I would be delighted with a conviction, but I don't think it will happen.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 04, 2020, 04:12:59 PM
Are you pleased they may have a scapegoat. - to prove you right.

Not interested in what really happened. - another one judge and jury.

you are so misguided. i'm interested to find out what really happened and that's why I want to see the evidence.
Over in sceptic lal la land...jill havern has actually suggested the trial of the german could be  a ploy to get the McCanns in the witness box to cross examine them and check out their story...the voice of a leading sceptic
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 04, 2020, 04:15:44 PM
you are so misguided. i'm interested to find out what really happened and that's why I want to see the evidence.
Over in sceptic lal la land...jill havern has actually suggested the trial of the german could be  a ploy to get the McCanns in the witness box to cross examine them and check out their story...the voice of a leading sceptic
Haha, I shouldn't laugh but really....how's Tony Bennett taking the news?  Assuming he's still alive that is...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 04, 2020, 04:18:39 PM
"Scapegoat" appears to be the word of the moment.  On what basis have you, the judge and jury, decided that this violent rapist and paedophile is the victim in this case?
Are you saying you're not really interested in what happened?

Did I say victim ....no

Did I say I wasn't interested..... no
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 04:23:25 PM
Was this guy eliminated or not from Amaral's investigation?

If so, on what grounds?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 04, 2020, 04:35:16 PM
Was this guy eliminated or not from Amaral's investigation?

If so, on what grounds?

Amaral was only involved for a few months. Did he come to any conclusion over this guy, or was it maybe unfinished business for him ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 04:54:37 PM
Amaral was only involved for a few months. Did he come to any conclusion over this guy, or was it maybe unfinished business for him ?

If he had thoroughly investigated this guy, I can't find anything in the files, aside from Misty's potential find, undated, and the original of that was in Spanish, apparently from M3.

If it was unfinished business, perhaps he could have been less categorical about his "conclusion"?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 04, 2020, 04:58:49 PM
you are so misguided. i'm interested to find out what really happened and that's why I want to see the evidence.
Over in sceptic lal la land...jill havern has actually suggested the trial of the german could be  a ploy to get the McCanns in the witness box to cross examine them and check out their story...the voice of a leading sceptic

Well b....r me sideways, the name Jill Havern rings a vague bell...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 04, 2020, 04:59:54 PM
Did I say victim ....no

Did I say I wasn't interested..... no
If you’re claiming he’s a scapegoat then clearly you believe he is in the process of becoming a victim of a miscarriage of justice, no?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 04, 2020, 05:00:18 PM
Well b....r me sideways, the name Jill Havern rings a vague bell...
Ey up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 04, 2020, 05:02:51 PM
Amaral was only involved for a few months. Did he come to any conclusion over this guy, or was it maybe unfinished business for him ?

The significance of the fact that this guy was a one man crime wave in Portugal for many years apparently with impunity calls into question just exactly the senior officers of the Judicial Police were doing while he was on the rampage.

The same senior officers who had plenty to say over the period of time they were in charge of Madeleine's case and couldn't restrain themselves from trying to put Madeleine's parents in the frame from then to the present day.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 05:27:34 PM
I'm still intrigued by Amaral apparently claiming that this guy would be the "scapegoat".

https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile-took-maddie-uk-police-amaral-claim-podcast/cc225ca6-7123-4182-985c-89888224bd09

Did he investigate him at the time or not?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 04, 2020, 05:33:26 PM
I'm still intrigued by Amaral apparently claiming that this guy would be the "scapegoat".

https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile-took-maddie-uk-police-amaral-claim-podcast/cc225ca6-7123-4182-985c-89888224bd09

Did he investigate him at the time or not?

No idea. All I've seen is that he was eliminated by PJ at some point
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 05:56:28 PM
No idea. All I've seen is that he was eliminated by PJ at some point

I certainly haven't seen anything in the files to that effect. The only caveat being that something may be lurking in the non-accessible paedo ones, but I can't think of even an oblique reference to someone of his profile having been excluded.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 04, 2020, 06:28:58 PM
I'm still intrigued by Amaral apparently claiming that this guy would be the "scapegoat".

https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile-took-maddie-uk-police-amaral-claim-podcast/cc225ca6-7123-4182-985c-89888224bd09

Did he investigate him at the time or not?
Why was this “scapegoat” never picked up by the PT cops for a brutal torture and rape of a woman in PdL?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 07:15:20 PM
Why was this “scapegoat” never picked up by the PT cops for a brutal torture and rape of a woman in PdL?

Back then, there were laws against crime reporting until someone had been charged or was facing trial.

Not sure where exactly she lived - might have been under the Faro jurisdiction?

There was no mention of the assaults on children at the time, either.

There is also that strange story about an Australian woman who lived alone and died of a head wound...

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 04, 2020, 07:22:44 PM
Back then, there were laws against crime reporting until someone had been charged or was facing trial.

Not sure where exactly she lived - might have been under the Faro jurisdiction?

There was no mention of the assaults on children at the time, either.

There is also that strange story about an Australian woman who lived alone and died of a head wound...
I find this all really quite shocking.  There’s a violent rapist at large and the public are not allowed to know about it?  Craziness.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 07:42:19 PM
Yep, judicial secrecy laws at the time. IMO, more juicy than judicious for tabloids.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 04, 2020, 07:52:46 PM
Yep, judicial secrecy laws at the time. IMO, more juicy than judicious for tabloids.
Mental.  In effect if criminals are never found and charged then the crime never happened as far as the public at large are concerned? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 08:04:01 PM
Mental.  In effect if criminals are never found and charged then the crime hever happened as far as the public at large are concerned?

The law has since changed - judicial secrecy is now the exception (unless the laws have changed yet again).

One well-known journalist said something ages ago to the effect that judicial secrecy was like traffic regulations: everyone was aware of them, but no one took any notice.

The lack of official information is what largely led to unofficial (and often dubious) leaks floating out of PJ windows.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 04, 2020, 08:21:00 PM
A convenient device.  Could be strictly enforced to limit the flow of inconvenient information.  But observed in the breech when it suited the police, with no sanction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 04, 2020, 09:20:50 PM
A convenient device.  Could be strictly enforced to limit the flow of inconvenient information.  But observed in the breech when it suited the police, with no sanction.

Hi JP,

Yep. Until the final straw when Amaral got unceremoniously booted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 12:14:57 AM
The law has since changed - judicial secrecy is now the exception (unless the laws have changed yet again).

One well-known journalist said something ages ago to the effect that judicial secrecy was like traffic regulations: everyone was aware of them, but no one took any notice.

The lack of official information is what largely led to unofficial (and often dubious) leaks floating out of PJ windows.

And ‘sources’ connected to the parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 12:17:15 AM
Hi JP,

Yep. Until the final straw when Amaral got unceremoniously booted.

And the ‘why didn’t you come when I was crying’ leak on Rebelo’s watch ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2020, 01:58:49 AM
And the ‘why didn’t you come when I was crying’ leak on Rebelo’s watch ?

And while Leonor Cipriano was being beaten to a pulp and her missing daughter Joanna was having books written about her to line the pockets of 'top cop' Cristovao;  while tourist children were being assaulted in their beds by a predator;  while Amaral was leaking pejorative tales to journalists and taking notes for his book on a missing child ... the likes of Christian Brueckner had set up their own crime waves in which burglary played a big part.

It seems the Portuguese police were too entrenched in the things which were of paramount importance to them such as the leaking of witness statements such as you have detailed in your post or making a big issue of 'THE PACT of SILENCE' from people bound by Portuguese law to silence ... to notice the real criminality going on right under their noses.
Incompetence or what but most certainly a disgrace and the Christian Brueckner investigation hasn't half highlighted it and the world is no doubt taking note of the sort of shambles Amaral and some of his colleagues were presiding over in the Algarve region.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 05, 2020, 08:44:36 AM
And the ‘why didn’t you come when I was crying’ leak on Rebelo’s watch ?

Yes, that was one of the very few under Rebelo, from memory. Conveniently leaked while he was in the UK for the interviews and the McCanns were in Brussels to promote a missing child alert system.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 05, 2020, 11:02:38 AM
Yes, that was one of the very few under Rebelo, from memory. Conveniently leaked while he was in the UK for the interviews and the McCanns were in Brussels to promote a missing child alert system.

The one which the PJ took the unusual step of issuing a denial, and the details of which bore no relationship to the statements which the journalist claimed he had in his possesion?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 11:18:27 AM
Yes, that was one of the very few under Rebelo, from memory. Conveniently leaked while he was in the UK for the interviews and the McCanns were in Brussels to promote a missing child alert system.

But nothing to do with Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 11:23:09 AM
And while Leonor Cipriano was being beaten to a pulp and her missing daughter Joanna was having books written about her to line the pockets of 'top cop' Cristovao;  while tourist children were being assaulted in their beds by a predator;  while Amaral was leaking pejorative tales to journalists and taking notes for his book on a missing child ... the likes of Christian Brueckner had set up their own crime waves in which burglary played a big part.

It seems the Portuguese police were too entrenched in the things which were of paramount importance to them such as the leaking of witness statements such as you have detailed in your post or making a big issue of 'THE PACT of SILENCE' from people bound by Portuguese law to silence ... to notice the real criminality going on right under their noses.
Incompetence or what but most certainly a disgrace and the Christian Brueckner investigation hasn't half highlighted it and the world is no doubt taking note of the sort of shambles Amaral and some of his colleagues were presiding over in the Algarve region.

The world is battling one of the worst viruses in history, do you really think they give a fig about any of the above ?

Of course people want to know what happened to Madeleine but that’s where their interest ends.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 05, 2020, 12:27:32 PM
The world is battling one of the worst viruses in history, do you really think they give a fig about any of the above ?

Of course people want to know what happened to Madeleine but that’s where their interest ends.
The  papers seem to think it's important to highlight the failings of the Portuguese and I think people will be and are interested
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 12:45:06 PM
The  papers seem to think it's important to highlight the failings of the Portuguese and I think people will be and are interested

The papers have to fill column inches.

People are much more concerned at this time with the failings of American law enforcement than the Portuguese. To most it’s just ancient history and a subject that didn’t really interest them in the first place.

The unpalatable truth for those who support the parents is no matter what the outcome of this case or who is charged, the public in general will always apportion some blame to the parents as they made any crime possible. Whether that blame is appropriate is an argument that will, I’m sure, rumble on for many years yet.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 05, 2020, 12:49:22 PM
The papers have to fill column inches.

People are much more concerned at this time with the failings of American law enforcement than the Portuguese. To most it’s just ancient history and a subject that didn’t really interest them in the first place.

The unpalatable truth for those who support the parents is no matter what the outcome of this case or who is charged, the public in general will always apportion some blame to the parents as they made any crime possible. Whether that blame is appropriate is an argument that will, I’m sure, rumble on for many years yet.

It's not an unpalatable truth to a certain extent its a reality. People make mistakes all the time and become victims of crime
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2020, 12:52:53 PM
The world is battling one of the worst viruses in history, do you really think they give a fig about any of the above ?

Of course people want to know what happened to Madeleine but that’s where their interest ends.

I can see why you might be a bit miffed that every criticism voiced about Amaral's conduct of Madeleine's case has come to fruition and then some.

Whether or not Brueckner  ever proves to be Madeleine's abductor the published facts about him prove two things to me.  (i) he should have been on Portuguese police radar at some time during his twelve year's residency as a criminal in the Algarve and (ii) he was a burglar; he was a rapist on Portuguese soil; he was in Luz on the night Madeleine disappeared.  In fact he was all the things and more that Amaral said could not have happened and the time he spent persecuting Madeleine's parents it is now shown could and should have been spent looking for Brueckner or someone else with a similar profile with the opportunity and the means to make a child vanish as though she had never been.

I think you may always have had a niggling doubt though ... I always wondered why you never contributed to the private Amaral thread ... seems you may have recognised something way back then and you were not alone as it was one of the shortest threads in history.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2020, 12:56:12 PM
The papers have to fill column inches.

People are much more concerned at this time with the failings of American law enforcement than the Portuguese. To most it’s just ancient history and a subject that didn’t really interest them in the first place.

The unpalatable truth for those who support the parents is no matter what the outcome of this case or who is charged, the public in general will always apportion some blame to the parents as they made any crime possible. Whether that blame is appropriate is an argument that will, I’m sure, rumble on for many years yet.

I'm sure it will.  I am sure it will.  It will have even less credibility in the future than it does at the moment.  But good luck with it anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 05, 2020, 01:49:28 PM
I can see why you might be a bit miffed that every criticism voiced about Amaral's conduct of Madeleine's case has come to fruition and then some.

Whether or not Brueckner  ever proves to be Madeleine's abductor the published facts about him prove two things to me.  (i) he should have been on Portuguese police radar at some time during his twelve year's residency as a criminal in the Algarve and (ii) he was a burglar; he was a rapist on Portuguese soil; he was in Luz on the night Madeleine disappeared.  In fact he was all the things and more that Amaral said could not have happened and the time he spent persecuting Madeleine's parents it is now shown could and should have been spent looking for Brueckner or someone else with a similar profile with the opportunity and the means to make a child vanish as though she had never been.

I think you may always have had a niggling doubt though ... I always wondered why you never contributed to the private Amaral thread ... seems you may have recognised something way back then and you were not alone as it was one of the shortest threads in history.

It would appear that Brueckner committed crimes in almost every part of Europe but remained, by and large, free. He appears to have been investigated for the disappearance of another young girl in Germany but was released. Are the Germans incompetent too. Further OG have had at least three years to investigate him but so far have absolutely nothing but circumstantial evidence against him...are they incompetent ? Rebelo lead the investigation for 10 months yet Brueckner’s name wasn’t mentioned, as far as we know, on his watch.

You really need to let this Amaral obsession go, you really do. Amaral made mistakes...no one is denying that, but as I have pointed out before, if guilty, those mistakes were just as likely to help the parents as hinder them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 05, 2020, 02:05:03 PM
What would you sooner read the never ending doom and gloom of covid,you must wear a mask on public transport or a live police investigation that in the past OG wouldn't comment on.
I beleive the fact that they have commented is significant
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 05, 2020, 04:19:02 PM
If the hundreds of comments in the Times today are anything to go by (the majority overwhelmingly supportive and sympathetic to the McCanns btw) there is still huge public imterest in this story.  The Media does not put stories on their front pages that they think will bore and repel their readers, the BBC does not go to the effort of sending breaking news message alerts about news stories that no one gives a toss about.  It seems odd to me that someone who has devoted 13 years of their life to following this case in great detail should then claim that it is boring and no body cares about it anymore.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 05, 2020, 08:36:39 PM
It would appear that Brueckner committed crimes in almost every part of Europe but remained, by and large, free. He appears to have been investigated for the disappearance of another young girl in Germany but was released. Are the Germans incompetent too. Further OG have had at least three years to investigate him but so far have absolutely nothing but circumstantial evidence against him...are they incompetent ? Rebelo lead the investigation for 10 months yet Brueckner’s name wasn’t mentioned, as far as we know, on his watch.

You really need to let this Amaral obsession go, you really do. Amaral made mistakes...no one is denying that, but as I have pointed out before, if guilty, those mistakes were just as likely to help the parents as hinder them.

Brueckner was in Praia da Luz on the night Madeleine was abducted.  He was a burglar and a sexual predator who entered premises via windows.

You have no option but to admit that Amaral made mistakes, the whole world knows that now.  But he went out of his way to compound those mistakes by making his living by exploiting Madeleine's name and persecuting her parents. 

One of his greatest mistakes was in rubbishing Kate McCann's eye witness account of the open window.  With every sceptic in the world joining in.

He rubbished Jane Tanner's eye witness account ... and every sceptic in the world joined in that too.

He concentrated his efforts based not on evidence (unless you agree Calpol is evidence) but based solely on his prejudices against Madeleine's parents to the exclusion of all else ~ particularly burglars.

I agree with you ... Amaral made mistakes - mega mistakes - and he made them at a time of most importance for Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 05, 2020, 10:17:10 PM
Entered through that window without leaving evidence? Yeah of course he did and let's discard evidence because we don't like him *%87  It's time to carry out new DNA tests and reveal the results. They have a reason to do it now!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 12:10:51 AM
Brueckner was in Praia da Luz on the night Madeleine was abducted.  He was a burglar and a sexual predator who entered premises via windows.

You have no option but to admit that Amaral made mistakes, the whole world knows that now.  But he went out of his way to compound those mistakes by making his living by exploiting Madeleine's name and persecuting her parents. 

One of his greatest mistakes was in rubbishing Kate McCann's eye witness account of the open window.  With every sceptic in the world joining in.

He rubbished Jane Tanner's eye witness account ... and every sceptic in the world joined in that too.

He concentrated his efforts based not on evidence (unless you agree Calpol is evidence) but based solely on his prejudices against Madeleine's parents to the exclusion of all else ~ particularly burglars.

I agree with you ... Amaral made mistakes - mega mistakes - and he made them at a time of most importance for Madeleine McCann.

Amaral was coordinator of the case for 5 months...that was over 12 years ago. Not one investigator in those 12 years, whether private or publicly funded, have discovered one tangible piece of evidence which has lead to the charging of a suspect....not one. OG were passed Brueckner’s name by the PJ in 2012 and his name has come up periodically after appeals since yet to this day neither OG or the German authorities have been able to find anything but circumstantial evidence against him. 8 years and they still haven’t been able to nail him. Now if he really is Madeleine’s kidnapper that fact alone reeks of incompetence. A not so clever sexual predator who boasted about his horrific abuse, kept the vehicle he may have used for months, if not years, after the alleged abduction and was easily caught for other offences and still no charge. Amaral appears the consummate professional in comparison.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 06, 2020, 10:03:16 AM
Amaral was coordinator of the case for 5 months...that was over 12 years ago. Not one investigator in those 12 years, whether private or publicly funded, have discovered one tangible piece of evidence which has lead to the charging of a suspect....not one. OG were passed Brueckner’s name by the PJ in 2012 and his name has come up periodically after appeals since yet to this day neither OG or the German authorities have been able to find anything but circumstantial evidence against him. 8 years and they still haven’t been able to nail him. Now if he really is Madeleine’s kidnapper that fact alone reeks of incompetence. A not so clever sexual predator who boasted about his horrific abuse, kept the vehicle he may have used for months, if not years, after the alleged abduction and was easily caught for other offences and still no charge. Amaral appears the consummate professional in comparison.

The two sisters who said they saw two men with blonde hair on the balcony of an empty apartment,  said the PJ didn't listen to them at all.

Did the PJ search the camper van belonging to this man?  Did they search his house?

They didn't even do house to house enquiries.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 10:34:27 AM
The two sisters who said they saw two men with blonde hair on the balcony of an empty apartment,  said the PJ didn't listen to them at all.

Did the PJ search the camper van belonging to this man?  Did they search his house?

They didn't even do house to house enquiries.

Old, tabloid gossip....move on Lace.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 10:36:37 AM
Anyone keen to shift the blame away from Amaral and the PT team in the first months of the investigation ison a hiding to nothing IMO.  Imagine if this creep had chosen to keep Madeleine alive for a few days as is claimed he wanted to do (have a young plaything) then there might have been a chance of recovering her alive if the police had targeted known paedophiles and sex offenders first and investigated them thoroughly, not half-heartrdly as appears to have been the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 10:45:17 AM

As far as I know The PJ remain in charge of The Investigation.  Have they ever actually done anything, even after the demise of Goncalo Amaral?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 11:20:14 AM
Amaral was coordinator of the case for 5 months...that was over 12 years ago. Not one investigator in those 12 years, whether private or publicly funded, have discovered one tangible piece of evidence which has lead to the charging of a suspect....not one. OG were passed Brueckner’s name by the PJ in 2012 and his name has come up periodically after appeals since yet to this day neither OG or the German authorities have been able to find anything but circumstantial evidence against him. 8 years and they still haven’t been able to nail him. Now if he really is Madeleine’s kidnapper that fact alone reeks of incompetence. A not so clever sexual predator who boasted about his horrific abuse, kept the vehicle he may have used for months, if not years, after the alleged abduction and was easily caught for other offences and still no charge. Amaral appears the consummate professional in comparison.

It has been succinctly pointed out that this is a Portuguese investigation which operated (or sometimes wasn't allowed to) according to Portuguese rules.
The backlash against the Scotland Yard investigations was enormous when Scotland Yard were having to fight on all fronts against concerted efforts to stop them in their tracks.

On this forum amongst many, many others too numerous to count, there was the spirited defence of the burglars Scotland Yard were given leave to question after months of negotiation to enable them to do so.  They were given one bite at the cherry and were not allowed by the the Portuguese to take their questions to the next stage.

On this forum amongst many, there was the absolute ridiculing of the Scotland Yard initiative to dig for evidence in Luz and a few surrounding areas ... one a spit in the wind in close proximity to where Christian Brueckner, had lived.

If within days of Madelene's disappearance the Portuguese police were asking questions about a person now alleged to be Christian Brueckner, I think Goncalo Amaral ~ the man in charge ~ has a lot of very serious questions to answer.  Not least of which should be why his decision to ignore local offenders fitting a profile to directing a vendetta against Madeleine's parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 12:05:32 PM
It has been succinctly pointed out that this is a Portuguese investigation which operated (or sometimes wasn't allowed to) according to Portuguese rules.
The backlash against the Scotland Yard investigations was enormous when Scotland Yard were having to fight on all fronts against concerted efforts to stop them in their tracks.

On this forum amongst many, many others too numerous to count, there was the spirited defence of the burglars Scotland Yard were given leave to question after months of negotiation to enable them to do so.  They were given one bite at the cherry and were not allowed by the the Portuguese to take their questions to the next stage.

On this forum amongst many, there was the absolute ridiculing of the Scotland Yard initiative to dig for evidence in Luz and a few surrounding areas ... one a spit in the wind in close proximity to where Christian Brueckner, had lived.

If within days of Madelene's disappearance the Portuguese police were asking questions about a person now alleged to be Christian Brueckner, I think Goncalo Amaral ~ the man in charge ~ has a lot of very serious questions to answer.  Not least of which should be why his decision to ignore local offenders fitting a profile to directing a vendetta against Madeleine's parents.

Backlash ? From who ? You’re truly not suggesting that what any of us say on any of the various forums made a crumb of difference to how OG conducted their investigation?

‘If within days of Madeleine’s disappearance the Portuguese police were asking questions’....how do you know this ?

Yet again I feel it necessary to add that Rebelo was coordinator of the investigation for far longer than Amaral but seems to constantly avoid your criticism? Why is that ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 12:18:16 PM
It has been succinctly pointed out that this is a Portuguese investigation which operated (or sometimes wasn't allowed to) according to Portuguese rules.
The backlash against the Scotland Yard investigations was enormous when Scotland Yard were having to fight on all fronts against concerted efforts to stop them in their tracks.

On this forum amongst many, many others too numerous to count, there was the spirited defence of the burglars Scotland Yard were given leave to question after months of negotiation to enable them to do so.  They were given one bite at the cherry and were not allowed by the the Portuguese to take their questions to the next stage.

On this forum amongst many, there was the absolute ridiculing of the Scotland Yard initiative to dig for evidence in Luz and a few surrounding areas ... one a spit in the wind in close proximity to where Christian Brueckner, had lived.

If within days of Madelene's disappearance the Portuguese police were asking questions about a person now alleged to be Christian Brueckner, I think Goncalo Amaral ~ the man in charge ~ has a lot of very serious questions to answer.  Not least of which should be why his decision to ignore local offenders fitting a profile to directing a vendetta against Madeleine's parents.

It wasn't a vendetta - don't forget the dogs in all this - ok its swept under the carpet on here.

But they still alerted to something - something they are trained to sniff out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 06, 2020, 12:31:18 PM
It wasn't a vendetta - don't forget the dogs in all this - ok its swept under the carpet on here.

But they still alerted to something - something they are trained to sniff out.

the alerts...Yawn
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 12:51:51 PM
It wasn't a vendetta - don't forget the dogs in all this - ok its swept under the carpet on here.

But they still alerted to something - something they are trained to sniff out.

Events have overtaken your prejudices and in my opinion you do not really understand the direction they have moved in therefore I'm not surprised you should raise old shibboleths.

Goncalo Amaral first of all raises the existence of a jailed German paedophile then in a smoke and mirrors move all without a scintilla of evidence rubbishes that he is a 'scapegoat'  ...


Snip
Goncalo Amaral made the explosive allegation that a German child sex offender would become the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation during an interview in April.

_________________________________________________________________________


Amaral, who was taken off the case after criticising some lines of inquiry by UK detectives, said in an interview with nine.com.au: "[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now."

"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."

The 43-year-old prisoner has not been named by British cops but was living in a campervan in Praia da Luz in Portugal around the time the youngster vanished on May 3, 2007.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11781188/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 12:51:58 PM
the alerts...Yawn
They just won't let "Dogs Don't Lie" lie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 12:59:39 PM
Events have overtaken your prejudices and in my opinion you do not really understand the direction they have moved in therefore I'm not surprised you should raise old shibboleths.

Goncalo Amaral first of all raises the existence of a jailed German paedophile then in a smoke and mirrors move all without a scintilla of evidence rubbishes that he is a 'scapegoat'  ...


Snip
Goncalo Amaral made the explosive allegation that a German child sex offender would become the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation during an interview in April.

_________________________________________________________________________


Amaral, who was taken off the case after criticising some lines of inquiry by UK detectives, said in an interview with nine.com.au: "[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now."

"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."

The 43-year-old prisoner has not been named by British cops but was living in a campervan in Praia da Luz in Portugal around the time the youngster vanished on May 3, 2007.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11781188/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile/


Yes the campervan was examined at the time and nothing was found
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 06, 2020, 01:01:17 PM

Yes the campervan was examined at the time and nothing was found

he may or may not be involved but its a significant development...we will know more fairly soon no doubt
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 01:02:20 PM
Events have overtaken your prejudices and in my opinion you do not really understand the direction they have moved in therefore I'm not surprised you should raise old shibboleths.

Goncalo Amaral first of all raises the existence of a jailed German paedophile then in a smoke and mirrors move all without a scintilla of evidence rubbishes that he is a 'scapegoat'  ...


Snip
Goncalo Amaral made the explosive allegation that a German child sex offender would become the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation during an interview in April.

_________________________________________________________________________


Amaral, who was taken off the case after criticising some lines of inquiry by UK detectives, said in an interview with nine.com.au: "[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now."

"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."

The 43-year-old prisoner has not been named by British cops but was living in a campervan in Praia da Luz in Portugal around the time the youngster vanished on May 3, 2007.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11781188/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile/

So Amaral is still trying to cover his backside.  What a backside.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 01:03:42 PM

Yes the campervan was examined at the time and nothing was found

According to media reports, the campervan has also been examined by German police, who also found no link to Madeleine. I think the same might have been said for the Jaguar.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 06, 2020, 02:08:08 PM
Old, tabloid gossip....move on Lace.




No it wasn't,  these women had vital evidence that was ignored by the Portuguese Police.   I wonder how much other evidence was ignored.

www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/9dec7/T-I-LONDON-31-12-07.htm


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 02:18:01 PM

Has anyone heard anything from Amaral, apart from The Scapegoat crack?

He might even have to pay The McCanns Damages.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
Has anyone heard anything from Amaral, apart from The Scapegoat crack?

He might even have to pay The McCanns Damages.

Which damages are these ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 02:26:59 PM
Which damages are these ?

The ones he lost for Libelling The McCanns.  Before The Supreme Court stepped in and added to the shame of Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 02:28:21 PM



No it wasn't,  these women had vital evidence that was ignored by the Portuguese Police.   I wonder how much other evidence was ignored.

www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/9dec7/T-I-LONDON-31-12-07.htm

Is there anything in the original files that verifies that they contact the PJ ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 02:31:44 PM
The ones he lost for Libelling The McCanns.  Before The Supreme Court stepped in and added to the shame of Portugal.

Ah, those damages. The ones he doesn't have to pay because he won the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 02:33:33 PM
Ah, those damages. The ones he doesn't have to pay because he won the case.

You think?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 02:34:36 PM
You think?

I know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 02:45:24 PM
I expect his book has come in useful during recent loo roll shortages.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 02:54:41 PM

Yes the campervan was examined at the time and nothing was found

May I have a cite for that, please.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 02:56:07 PM
I know.

The ECHR might have something to say about that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:01:35 PM
The ECHR might have something to say about that.


You come across as an intelligent person, so you must realise that that is bollox.

 If The ECHR judges find in favour of McCann, then the State of Portugal will be liable for any compensatory payment. No one else.
However, if you wish to continue with your delusion in this matter, please feel free to do so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 03:01:58 PM
I expect his book has come in useful during recent loo roll shortages.

I only ever buy expensive loo paper.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 03:03:00 PM



No it wasn't,  these women had vital evidence that was ignored by the Portuguese Police.   I wonder how much other evidence was ignored.

www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/9dec7/T-I-LONDON-31-12-07.htm

Well, we know for a certainty that Ricardo Piava ~ a senior officer from the start of the case and who also worked under Rebelo ~ in his turn filed loads of evidence between 2008 and 2010 during which time it was ignored.

No-one had looked at it until it was ordered to be released to the McCann lawyers in 2010.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 06, 2020, 03:04:43 PM
Anyone keen to shift the blame away from Amaral and the PT team in the first months of the investigation ison a hiding to nothing IMO.  Imagine if this creep had chosen to keep Madeleine alive for a few days as is claimed he wanted to do (have a young plaything) then there might have been a chance of recovering her alive if the police had targeted known paedophiles and sex offenders first and investigated them thoroughly, not half-heartrdly as appears to have been the case.

Being a vile creep is not evidence of him being involved in the disappearance of MM. There are many vile creeps in missing pages from the PJ files. Present your evidence that he was involved as you are so certain about it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 03:06:29 PM

You come across as an intelligent person, so you must realise that that is bollox.

 If The ECHR judges find in favour of McCann, then the State of Portugal will be liable for any compensatory payment. No one else.
However, if you wish to continue with your delusion in this matter, please feel free to do so.

It will be how Portugal deals with Amaral that will be interesting.  And The Judges of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:12:49 PM
It will be how Portugal deals with Amaral that will be interesting.  And The Judges of course.

All depends on whether or not the ECHR finds in favour of McCann, in which case the Supreme Court will take the ECHR judgement on board when considering future cases.

Portugal will take no action against Amaral as the case is done and dusted.

IMO and that of any sensible person.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:14:04 PM
Being a vile creep is not evidence of him being involved in the disappearance of MM. There are many vile creeps in missing pages from the PJ files. Present your evidence that he was involved as you are so certain about it?
I am not certain he did it, but I think there are very credible reasons for suspecting him over anyone else at this stage.  Perhaps you can present your evidence that he couldn't possibly have done it? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
I am not certain he did it, but I think there are very credible reasons for suspecting him over anyone else at this stage. Perhaps you can present your evidence that he couldn't possibly have done it?


Has anyone ever said that or is it just one of your twists?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:18:37 PM

Has anyone ever said that or is it just one of your twists?
What do you care?  Pathfinder twisted my post so I am twisting his - got a problem with that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:20:07 PM
What do you care?  Pathfinder twisted my post so I am twisting his - got a problem with that?

I just like to try and keep the record straight. Have you a problem with that ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:21:45 PM
I just like to try and keep the record straight. Have you a problem with that ?
Yes - because you're not interested in keeping the record straight at all, just in finding fault with my posts.  Now kindly buzz off.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 03:23:02 PM
All depends on whether or not the ECHR finds in favour of McCann, in which case the Supreme Court will take the ECHR judgement on board when considering future cases.

Portugal will take no action against Amaral as the case is done and dusted.

IMO and that of any sensible person.

There will be a new Supreme Court.  I'll bet you that for houses.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 03:23:06 PM
Well, we know for a certainty that Ricardo Piava ~ a senior officer from the start of the case and who also worked under Rebelo ~ in his turn filed loads of evidence between 2008 and 2010 during which time it was ignored.

No-one had looked at it until it was ordered to be released to the McCann lawyers in 2010.

No he didn’t....the files were marked not relevant to the case...that is not the same as ignoring them. As far as we know each one could have been followed up.

I do wish posters would stop regurgitating this absolute nonsense as if it was fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:25:00 PM
Yes - because you're not interested in keeping the record straight at all, just in finding fault with my posts.  Now kindly buzz off.

When were you appointed Chief blackboard monitor?

On a free forum I shall post whenever it suits me.

If you don't like that, then complain to a real moderator.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 06, 2020, 03:25:59 PM
I am not certain he did it, but I think there are very credible reasons for suspecting him over anyone else at this stage.  Perhaps you can present your evidence that he couldn't possibly have done it? 

He could have done it but you require evidence! I've seen no reports of his jag or campervan being spotted that night.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:27:09 PM
There will be a new Supreme Court.  I'll bet you that for houses.

We'll have to wait and see, not that it's important to me as I shall never come under its jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 03:29:38 PM
May I have a cite for that, please.



"He was investigated by the [Policia Judiciaria, Portugal's police] at the time [and] when the case ended they discarded him," he said.
"The trailer that he lived in was taken to Germany for testing but nothing was found there."
Mr Amaral said the German suspect was a convicted sex offender and was serving sentences in Germany unrelated the disappearance of Madeleine, arguably the world's most famous missing person case.
The former cop hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20 million London Metropolitan Police investigation for Maddie.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/madeleine-mccann-german-suspect-a-scapegoat-portugal-detective-goncalo-amaral-claims-maddie-podcast/0ea5ef10-8717-4cfb-adea-a1c8baf2d357?fbclid=IwAR2XeFUu2UGvtCHbKN0TDRLuFIfobTDKPo9Kf3Didgp-uCy15UXtgOAtecA
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:29:50 PM
When were you appointed Chief blackboard monitor?

On a free forum I shall post whenever it suits me.

If you don't like that, then complain to a real moderator.
You're the one "keeping records straight" - lol.  Who appointed you to that role out of interest? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:31:48 PM
No he didn’t....the files were marked not relevant to the case...that is not the same as ignoring them. As far as we know each one could have been followed up.

I do wish posters would stop regurgitating this absolute nonsense as if it was fact.
"Not relevant" based on what sort on extensive investigations?  I don't see any evidence of Christian B being hauled in for questioning or his property searched back in 2007 in relation to Madeleine's disappearance. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 03:32:01 PM
We'll have to wait and see, not that it's important to me as I shall never come under its jurisdiction.

Nor me neither.  Such a pity.  I liked going to Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 03:32:56 PM
He could have done it but you require evidence! I've seen no reports of his jag or campervan being spotted that night.
How could he have done it, when you are 100% certain Gerry was Smithman?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 03:34:38 PM
Well, we know for a certainty that Ricardo Piava ~ a senior officer from the start of the case and who also worked under Rebelo ~ in his turn filed loads of evidence between 2008 and 2010 during which time it was ignored.

No-one had looked at it until it was ordered to be released to the McCann lawyers in 2010.

No-one had looked at it until it was ordered to be released to the McCann lawyers in 2010.


Well weren't they supposed to be looking for anything PJ had missed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 06, 2020, 03:41:36 PM
According to media reports, the campervan has also been examined by German police, who also found no link to Madeleine. I think the same might have been said for the Jaguar.

When did the German police get hold of the vehicles?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 06, 2020, 03:45:45 PM
When did the German police get hold of the vehicles?

A couple of years ago, I believe. The van from a Portuguese scrapyard. Not sure about the jaguar

From the Daily Mail - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8392475/Maddie-McCann-suspect-sold-VW-campervan-2015-car-scrapyard.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 03:48:15 PM
It will be how Portugal deals with Amaral that will be interesting.  And The Judges of course.

You called the Supreme Court judgement "the shame of Portugal" which describes it perfectly.  I'm not sure that any corrective measures if taken from a nation so steeped in 'honour' will ever appear in the public domain.  But I think there will be retribution of one kind or another for Amaral as more and more details of his sorry tale receive more currency among those who matter, the ordinary people of Portugal.

I think there are signs of that already happening in his uncharacteristic silence.  The longer the situation in Germany goes on the worse I think it is going to be for Amaral and I wonder how long it will be before people start wondering ... why ignore a locally based criminal and go to the extreme lengths he did to persecute the parents of a missing child?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 06, 2020, 03:53:28 PM
You called the Supreme Court judgement "the shame of Portugal" which describes it perfectly.  I'm not sure that any corrective measures if taken from a nation so steeped in 'honour' will ever appear in the public domain.  But I think there will be retribution of one kind or another for Amaral as more and more details of his sorry tale receive more currency among those who matter, the ordinary people of Portugal.

I think there are signs of that already happening in his uncharacteristic silence.  The longer the situation in Germany goes on the worse I think it is going to be for Amaral and I wonder how long it will be before people start wondering ... why ignore a locally based criminal and go to the extreme lengths he did to persecute the parents of a missing child?

I will never be able to understand this.  It has been pretty vile this last thirteen years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 03:56:40 PM
No he didn’t....the files were marked not relevant to the case...that is not the same as ignoring them. As far as we know each one could have been followed up.

I do wish posters would stop regurgitating this absolute nonsense as if it was fact.

You are in total denial.

The files Piava ignored were not looked at let alone investigated until the McCann private investigators did so in 2010.  They were passed to Scotland Yard as part of their scoping exercise in 2011 and the rest is history.

Of course you do know that ... you just refuse to accept it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 04:26:17 PM
You are in total denial.

The files Piava ignored were not looked at let alone investigated until the McCann private investigators did so in 2010.  They were passed to Scotland Yard as part of their scoping exercise in 2011 and the rest is history.

Of course you do know that ... you just refuse to accept it.


So why did no one else pick him up from the files.

What does the rest is history mean - SY spent 12 million seems on nothing
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:29:06 PM

So why did no one else pick him up from the files.

What does the rest is history mean - SY spent 12 million seems on nothing
You don't think we are any closer to resolving this mystery than we were in 2008 then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 04:30:41 PM
You don't think we are any closer to resolving this mystery than we were in 2008 then?

I wish you would stop following me VS  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 04:32:18 PM
You don't think we are any closer to resolving this mystery than we were in 2008 then?


Seriously - no I don't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:36:30 PM

Seriously - no I don't.
Like I said before "nothing to see here, move on, move on".

At the end of the day though your opinion is neither here nor there.  Clearly the police of three countries think they have made a significant breakthrough, and I sincerely hope that they are on the right track.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:37:36 PM
I wish you would stop following me VS  @)(++(*
Would you prefer it if I ignored your witterings?  If so just say the word and I will no longer respond directly to your posts. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 06, 2020, 04:48:48 PM
You sincerely hope Maddie was murdered by a paedophile?

Takes all sorts I suppose.

His goal has always been to protect the parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 04:49:26 PM


"He was investigated by the [Policia Judiciaria, Portugal's police] at the time [and] when the case ended they discarded him," he said.
"The trailer that he lived in was taken to Germany for testing but nothing was found there."
Mr Amaral said the German suspect was a convicted sex offender and was serving sentences in Germany unrelated the disappearance of Madeleine, arguably the world's most famous missing person case.
The former cop hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20 million London Metropolitan Police investigation for Maddie.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/madeleine-mccann-german-suspect-a-scapegoat-portugal-detective-goncalo-amaral-claims-maddie-podcast/0ea5ef10-8717-4cfb-adea-a1c8baf2d357?fbclid=IwAR2XeFUu2UGvtCHbKN0TDRLuFIfobTDKPo9Kf3Didgp-uCy15UXtgOAtecA

Thank you.
Why do you think no-one has ever heard of his trailer and Jag being taken to Germany on 2007 and there is no record of it happening ... why would it have been?  I think you will find the quote is inaccurate and if really made by Amaral and not misreporting by 9, highly suspicious.

We know both vehicles were impounded recently to be checked by German forensics ... I wonder why they didn't pull out their 2007 forensic reports and refer to them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:51:06 PM
His goal has always been to protect the parents.
And you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 06, 2020, 04:53:21 PM
To discover the truth. You don't want new advanced DNA tests just to convict anybody in anyway but not the parents!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:53:51 PM
It seems I need to repeat this

Someone on this thread has accused others of hoping that this vile specimen is the man responsible for Madeleine’s abduction and murder.  This is a complete misrepresentation of the truth.  Some people hope that justice for Madeleine will soon be achieved, nothing more nothing less.  The idea that this man could have abducted Madeleine and kept her alive for days to torture and abuse her before killing her makes me sick to my stomach and if I had to choose between that scenario and the falling off a sofa after an overdose of Calpol theory, then obviously I would prefer the latter.  I wish people would not twist what is said to make wholly inaccurate and offensive remarks simply to call into question the morality of others, particularly when their own moral judgement has been highly questionable for years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 04:54:16 PM
When did the German police get hold of the vehicles?

I don't know exactly when ... what I am as certain as I can be is that it was not in 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 04:54:24 PM
You are in total denial.

The files Piava ignored were not looked at let alone investigated until the McCann private investigators did so in 2010.  They were passed to Scotland Yard as part of their scoping exercise in 2011 and the rest is history.

Of course you do know that ... you just refuse to accept it.

Your ‘knowledge’ is based on reports which were given to the media by Lift, the Portuguese PR firm hired by the parents.
Some of the ‘information’, mainly sightings I believe, found it’s way into the British media. There was no evidence presented that the information within the files hadn’t been followed up....merely that it had found to be ‘of no relevance to the investigation’. The fact that the files were still available to the parents and hadn’t simply been shredded speaks to their handling. 

Of course this event has to be looked at in context. Several weeks before Pavia had told the court in Lisbon that Kate had called him with details of a dream. Gerry denied this had happened and so the discrediting of Pavia began, which included not only the file accusation but also a rather bizarre sting carried out by a supporter of the parents.

So believe what you will Brietta.....but don’t blame those of us who are less gullible for being that way.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 04:54:41 PM
To discover the truth. You don't want new advanced DNA tests just to convict anybody in anyway but not the parents!
Complete tripe.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 05:41:19 PM
Your ‘knowledge’ is based on reports which were given to the media by Lift, the Portuguese PR firm hired by the parents.
Some of the ‘information’, mainly sightings I believe, found it’s way into the British media. There was no evidence presented that the information within the files hadn’t been followed up....merely that it had found to be ‘of no relevance to the investigation’. The fact that the files were still available to the parents and hadn’t simply been shredded speaks to their handling. 

Of course this event has to be looked at in context. Several weeks before Pavia had told the court in Lisbon that Kate had called him with details of a dream. Gerry denied this had happened and so the discrediting of Pavia began, which included not only the file accusation but also a rather bizarre sting carried out by a supporter of the parents.

So believe what you will Brietta.....but don’t blame those of us who are less gullible for being that way.

Ricardo Piava needed no assistance whatsoever to discredit himself.  I am amazed you should bring it up.

I am also amazed you condone his proven dereliction of duty in relation to the file which he thought would never see the light of day.
Was he stupid enough to think that those who had contributed to it such as other police forces might not on occasion wonder why there was no feedback ... or that there wasn't a record of information being being sent to him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 05:58:02 PM
Ricardo Piava needed no assistance whatsoever to discredit himself.  I am amazed you should bring it up.

I am also amazed you condone his proven dereliction of duty in relation to the file which he thought would never see the light of day.
Was he stupid enough to think that those who had contributed to it such as other police forces might not on occasion wonder why there was no feedback ... or that there wasn't a record of information being being sent to him.

There was no dereliction of duty.

How do you think that the parents gained access to the file ? If Pavia wasn’t investigating and compiling the information why was there a file at all ? Why not just throw the lot in the bin.....much less risk of being found out.

I’m not sure I’ve ever read any comments from other police forces re: the information or feedback. Do you have a link ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 06, 2020, 06:16:14 PM
Like I said before "nothing to see here, move on, move on".

At the end of the day though your opinion is neither here nor there.  Clearly the police of three countries think they have made a significant breakthrough, and I sincerely hope that they are on the right track.

You hope they are on the right track - I think GA was on the right track an at least he thought it an accident.

I doubt Maddie is ever going to be found - but better she went quickly than suffering god knows what.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2020, 06:38:20 PM
There was no dereliction of duty.

How do you think that the parents gained access to the file ? If Pavia wasn’t investigating and compiling the information why was there a file at all ? Why not just throw the lot in the bin.....much less risk of being found out.

I’m not sure I’ve ever read any comments from other police forces re: the information or feedback. Do you have a link ?

Refresh your memory here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4962.msg176391#msg176391 then if you want ~ open a thread on Paiva ~ it may assist this one to get back on the topic of Goncalo Amaral.

Neat piece of deflection work though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
You hope they are on the right track - I think GA was on the right track an at least he thought it an accident.

I doubt Maddie is ever going to be found - but better she went quickly than suffering god knows what.
I always believed she was taken by a paedophile but I would be relieved to be proven wrong and that if she is dead that it was swift and painless and without her knowing was was going on.  Sadly the way things are looking now I think her end was possibly horrific and quite terrifying.  Believing this to be the case is not the same as me wanting it to be the case as some people keep trying to make out, do you understand this?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 06, 2020, 07:06:10 PM
Refresh your memory here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4962.msg176391#msg176391 then if you want ~ open a thread on Paiva ~ it may assist this one to get back on the topic of Goncalo Amaral.

Neat piece of deflection work though.

It was you who brought up Pavia...but right back at you with your deflection quip.

The link you posted adds nothing.....so nothing new there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on June 06, 2020, 09:38:37 PM
It seems I need to repeat this

Someone on this thread has accused others of hoping that this vile specimen is the man responsible for Madeleine’s abduction and murder.  This is a complete misrepresentation of the truth.  Some people hope that justice for Madeleine will soon be achieved, nothing more nothing less.  The idea that this man could have abducted Madeleine and kept her alive for days to torture and abuse her before killing her makes me sick to my stomach and if I had to choose between that scenario and the falling off a sofa after an overdose of Calpol theory, then obviously I would prefer the latter.  I wish people would not twist what is said to make wholly inaccurate and offensive remarks simply to call into question the morality of others, particularly when their own moral judgement has been highly questionable for years.

It is well known in police circles that sneak thiefs, burglars and sex offenders seldom stray from their particular MO.  For that reason it would be unusual for this guy to have abducted and murdered.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2020, 11:55:10 PM
It is well known in police circles that sneak thiefs, burglars and sex offenders seldom stray from their particular MO.  For that reason it would be unusual for this guy to have abducted and murdered.
It’s my understanding that many child abductor/murderers have a history of petty crime that progressively gets less petty the longer they are able to get away with it.  This guy seems to fit that profile exactly up to and including the brutal torture and rape of a woman in the area.  Why do you think he would have stopped there in his quest for stimulation and gratification?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
Senior detective argues Madeleine McCann investigation was flawed from the start
An ex-officer who worked on the investigation explains why the search was doomed to failure


Dr Graham Hill, visiting research fellow at the school of law at the University of Leeds and former senior police officer, on the failings of the Madeleine McCann investigation.

News that a 43-year-old German man is now the prime suspect in the Madeleine McCann case appears – at last – to be a significant development.

The information from the German authorities and the Metropolitan Police Service indicates that in May 2007 this man was living and frequenting Praia da Luz, Portugal, and possibly committing burglaries at holiday complexes to fund his itinerant lifestyle. It also appears that as a teenager he was convicted of sexual offences against children in Germany and was therefore a known convicted sex offender in 2007.

This raises several questions: was he known to the Portuguese investigation team at the time? If so, when did his name enter their system and what did they do to implicate or eliminate him from their enquiry? When was his name passed on to the UK investigation team? These are questions at the forefront of my mind as I think back to my time in Portugal.

Madeleine McCann had been missing for several days when I arrived in Praia da Luz in May 2007. I had been sent to Portugal as part of the UK’s Child Exploitation Online Protection Centre (CEOP) response to Madeleine’s disappearance. I was a detective superintendent and senior investigating officer (SIO) with knowledge about predatory child sexual abusers and non-familial child abduction.

After being briefed at the British Consulate regarding Madeleine’s disappearance, I met with Gerry and Kate McCann at their holiday apartment and we discussed the Portuguese police investigation strategy and possible scenarios that could have led to their daughter’s disappearance. Understandably, the McCanns were trying to come to terms with the situation they found themselves in.

During our discussion, Gerry asked me directly if I thought his daughter was still alive, and I pointed out that if she had been abducted – statistically – she would by now be dead. The majority of children who are murdered after being abducted by someone unknown to them are dead within three to six hours. It was a difficult conversation, but I was struck by how focused the McCanns remained throughout.

The following day I went to the police station in Praia da Luz and spoke with several of the lead Portuguese investigators. They were all very polite but it was clear from their attitude and response that they didn’t welcome what they considered to be UK interference in a Portuguese crime.

At that time, they were also receiving advice from Leicestershire Police (the McCanns’ home police force) supported by the then UK National Police Improvement Agency (NPIA).

From the outset I was struck by the lack of urgency surrounding the investigation and it was difficult to establish any detailed information around what direction the investigation was taking. Over the next few days, whenever I suggested certain courses of action that they might wish to consider, the Portuguese police either dismissed it out of hand or I was informed that it had already been done without result.

Flawed investigation
As the days went by, I became more and more frustrated and I relayed this back to CEOP in my telephone conversations and daily written reports. After ten exasperating days avoiding the growing media presence, trying to get and impart information and having meetings cancelled at the last minute because investigators were too busy, it was still unclear to me whether many of the key investigative tasks had been adequately completed.

For example, I had serious misgivings about the quality of the search strategy, the recording of full-time and casual staff at the holiday complex, identification of all known suspected and convicted sex offenders living or frequenting the area, and other significant or relevant crimes in the local area.

My professional opinion was that the Portuguese investigative approach to Madeleine’s disappearance was flawed and not fit for purpose when set against what we would have been done in a similar investigation in the UK. This was reflected time and time again in my verbal and written reports and the “fiasco” was regularly reported on in the press.

Disappointingly, as the investigation progressed there was also a certain amount of inter-agency rivalry between the UK agencies involved, which resulted in a fraught working relationship.

‘Golden hours’ wasted
In the years since Madeleine’s disappearance, I have also raised my concerns as to whether agencies across Europe are still any better prepared for these types of investigations.

When an investigation team doesn’t gather information or act in a timely and systematic fashion, the investigation gets away from them and this dramatically reduces the chances of the crime being solved.

My experience then, and even more so now having studied the behaviour of non-familial child abductors and murderers in-depth as a criminologist, is that the first 24 to 48 hours of a child abduction investigation – often referred to as the “golden hours” – are critical to its successful outcome. It requires strong, dynamic leadership supported by clear defensible decision making.

This must be backed up by systems and structures designed to collect and evaluate information quickly. At the same time, information must be retained in a manner so that it can be revisited at appropriate times as the investigation moves forward and alternative lines of enquiry are considered.

Non-familial child abduction attracts vast amounts of media attention. High-profile cases often attract national media coverage and cases where the child is murdered become, what is called in criminology, “mega-homicides”. These cases can attract worldwide attention and generate vast amounts of information.

The potential for this information to overwhelm even the best-prepared investigation agency during the early hours or days of an inquiry is considerable. For this reason, there is a need for a systematic approach to core policing functions to deal with the complexity. And it is vital to have a thorough, well documented investigation strategy.

These investigations also require highly skilled and experienced investigators who have the ability to make defensible decisions based upon reliable information and create investigative strategy and policy that can stand the test of hindsight. A failure to do so can have serious consequences.

Three years after Madeleine’s disappearance, in 2010, I conducted and wrote CEOP’s internal review of the Portuguese investigation, which was subsequently passed to the Home Office. The review contained observations and recommendations that, after repeated requests from the McCanns, led to the Met being tasked to establish their own investigation, Operation Grange.

The information timeline, when fully known, may offer clarity and explanations to many of the questions that have been swirling around this case since 2007. But these explanations may also raise more uncomfortable questions about the effectiveness of the initial police inquiry and the competence of the people who led it. I only hope this new information leads to some form of closure for the McCanns.

Dr Graham Hill, visiting research fellow at the School of Law, University of Leeds.

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/107185/madeleine-mccann-investigation-flawed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2020, 12:06:45 PM
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 08, 2020, 12:28:08 PM
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.

But he's an expert... I thought you didn't question the skills of experts
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 08, 2020, 12:29:44 PM
Your ‘knowledge’ is based on reports which were given to the media by Lift, the Portuguese PR firm hired by the parents.
Some of the ‘information’, mainly sightings I believe, found it’s way into the British media. There was no evidence presented that the information within the files hadn’t been followed up....merely that it had found to be ‘of no relevance to the investigation’. The fact that the files were still available to the parents and hadn’t simply been shredded speaks to their handling. 

Of course this event has to be looked at in context. Several weeks before Pavia had told the court in Lisbon that Kate had called him with details of a dream. Gerry denied this had happened and so the discrediting of Pavia began, which included not only the file accusation but also a rather bizarre sting carried out by a supporter of the parents.

So believe what you will Brietta.....but don’t blame those of us who are less gullible for being that way.

I think the gullible ones are those that believe the rubbish in amarals book
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2020, 12:30:31 PM
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.

One day before I die I plan on producing a cite which meets your exacting standards and a witness who meets with your approval.
I always intended to live for a long, long, long time now it looks as if I'll just have to go for immortality instead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 08, 2020, 12:34:28 PM
It is well known in police circles that sneak thiefs, burglars and sex offenders seldom stray from their particular MO.  For that reason it would be unusual for this guy to have abducted and murdered.

This is what has been promoted by some on the forum... But here ee have someone with a history of burglary and child abuse... In that respect it's an astonishing coincidence that someone like him was in Luz that night. He had no history of raping elderly ladies yet that's what one if his burglaries turned into
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 08, 2020, 12:36:49 PM
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.

Do you have s cite for the 8 other couples and locking the apartment...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2020, 12:53:11 PM
Do you have s cite for the 8 other couples and locking the apartment...

I wonder if Rosalinda Hutton and Sonia Poulton ring any bells
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 08, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
I wonder if Rosalinda Hutton and Sonia Poulton ring any bells

Care to expand ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 08, 2020, 01:15:09 PM
But he's an expert... I thought you didn't question the skills of experts

An expert who didn't know basic facts about this case. That is not an expert.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 08, 2020, 01:18:34 PM
An expert who didn't know basic facts about this case. That is not an expert.

What facts didn't he know... With a cite.  More like you and gunit just don't like to hear his view that the Portuguese investigation was not fit for purpose
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 08, 2020, 01:29:25 PM
You missed G-Unit's post?

16 friends, 8 other couples, locked the apartment - Graham Hill is certainly not an expert on this case!

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2020, 01:30:32 PM
One day before I die I plan on producing a cite which meets your exacting standards and a witness who meets with your approval.
I always intended to live for a long, long, long time now it looks as if I'll just have to go for immortality instead.

Won't we all.  No one is getting anywhere fast at the moment.  But it keeps us all going.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2020, 02:33:10 PM
You missed G-Unit's post?

16 friends, 8 other couples, locked the apartment - Graham Hill is certainly not an expert on this case!


He and his colleague seem to have concentrated on Murat and on developing his psychological profile, according to Amaral. [TOTL .pdf page 45]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 08, 2020, 03:35:41 PM
He and his colleague seem to have concentrated on Murat and on developing his psychological profile, according to Amaral. [TOTL .pdf page 45]

Did this investigator even speak to the parents as he seems to know a lot about how they think ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 08, 2020, 06:10:29 PM
You missed G-Unit's post?

16 friends, 8 other couples, locked the apartment - Graham Hill is certainly not an expert on this case!



Damn fine racing driver though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2020, 06:54:46 PM
Did this investigator even speak to the parents as he seems to know a lot about how they think ?

He probably did during the first week he was there waiting for the PJ to notice him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 08, 2020, 07:05:40 PM
He probably did during the first week he was there waiting for the PJ to notice him.

But for him to have the level of knowledge about their behaviour and motivations the conversations must have been long and intensive.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2020, 08:32:59 PM
But for him to have the level of knowledge about their behaviour and motivations the conversations must have been long and intensive.

He did seem very knowledgeable about them, if not about the details of the disappearance. He seemed to be repeating the McCann's thoughts and explanations rather than having reached his own conclusions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2020, 08:49:37 PM
He did seem very knowledgeable about them, if not about the details of the disappearance. He seemed to be repeating the McCann's thoughts and explanations rather than having reached his own conclusions.

I don't know if it was necessary for him to have interviewed any witnesses.  I rather think he might have been there as observer and adviser.

What I do know is that Amaral never met with Kate and Gerry had met him once, very briefly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2020, 10:07:53 PM
I don't know if it was necessary for him to have interviewed any witnesses.  I rather think he might have been there as observer and adviser.

What I do know is that Amaral never met with Kate and Gerry had met him once, very briefly.

Kate and Gerry McCann had meetings with the men running the investigation; Encarnacao and Neves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 08, 2020, 10:11:56 PM
The German police are now sounding fairly certain that Madeleine is dead and that they have evidence the German did it. 
Whether Graham Hill is an expert on the McCanns or not seems a redundant argument now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2020, 10:45:38 PM
Kate and Gerry McCann had meetings with the men running the investigation; Encarnacao and Neves.

Sorry I forgot Amaral was only the tea boy.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 08, 2020, 10:54:23 PM
Sorry I forgot Amaral was only the tea boy.
”I waz only obeying orderz”.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 07:17:31 AM
Sorry I forgot Amaral was only the tea boy.

I didn't say that and you know it's not true. He was the coordinator, but he wasn't in charge.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 09, 2020, 07:25:49 AM
I didn't say that and you know it's not true. He was the coordinator, but he wasn't in charge.
So quite ok for him to form an opinion about the McCanns guilt or otherwise without meeting them, Graham Hill on the other hand...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 08:37:15 AM
So quite ok for him to form an opinion about the McCanns guilt or otherwise without meeting them, Graham Hill on the other hand...

Many many people have formed opinions about the McCann's guilt or innocence without meeting them. When the McCanns wanted to flee Portugal it was the man in charge who they approached and who gave his permission; Encarnacao.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 09, 2020, 09:32:04 AM
The German police are now sounding fairly certain that Madeleine is dead and that they have evidence the German did it. 
Whether Graham Hill is an expert on the McCanns or not seems a redundant argument now.

Just shows you believe everything you read - the evidence is only CB told someone she was
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 09, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
posters want to criticise hills lack of knowledge...what is far far  far more important is amarals lack of knowledge.
He claimed


The dogs had a 100% record
They had never been wrong in 200 cases
That they discovered  a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey
That the evidence he produced in the documentary proved maddie died in the appartment

All wrong and considering according to  a report in the Guardian re the libel trial that the main evidence against the McCanns was the alerts...a disater for the investigation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 09, 2020, 09:59:42 AM
posters want to criticise hills lack of knowledge...what is far far  far more important is amarals lack of knowledge.
He claimed


The dogs had a 100% record
They had never been wrong in 200 cases
That they discovered  a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey
That the evidence he produced in the documentary proved maddie died in the appartment

All wrong and considering according to  a report in the Guardian re the libel trial that the main evidence against the McCanns was the alerts...a disater for the investigation


All that is going on with CB is circumstantial evidence - IMO GA had more circumstantial on mccs.

The fact is as well - the mccs was definitely there
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 09, 2020, 10:02:16 AM

All that is going on with CB is circumstantial evidence - IMO GA had more circumstantial on mccs.

The fact is as well - the mccs was definitely there

I'm pointing out how much amaral got wrong...facts not opinions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2020, 10:20:04 AM

I shudder to think of what The Media will do to Goncalo Amaral over The Cipriano Case if this all proves to be true.

No wonder he went quiet.  He surely must see this coming.

Meanwhile, The Portuguese Judiciary have lost all credibility, even if in not knowing that they had a convicted Paedophile and Rapist rampaging around The Algarve.  Although I don't believe that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 10:32:40 AM
posters want to criticise hills lack of knowledge...what is far far  far more important is amarals lack of knowledge.
He claimed


The dogs had a 100% record
They had never been wrong in 200 cases
That they discovered  a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey
That the evidence he produced in the documentary proved maddie died in the appartment

All wrong and considering according to  a report in the Guardian re the libel trial that the main evidence against the McCanns was the alerts...a disater for the investigation

You accuse Amaral of lacking knowledge but ignore the fact that his superiors must have agreed with him otherwise the investigation would have changed direction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 09, 2020, 10:36:19 AM
You accuse Amaral of lacking knowledge but ignore the fact that his superiors must have agreed with him otherwise the investigation would have changed direction.

Yes it seems they all got it wrong.. In Harrison's report he states how they had a meeting with the PJ and explained the alerts needed to be verified.. It seems they didn't listen
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2020, 10:38:58 AM
You accuse Amaral of lacking knowledge but ignore the fact that his superiors must have agreed with him otherwise the investigation would have changed direction.

I've included them in Loss of Credibility.  None of them knew about this Convicted Paedophile and Rapist?

I simply do not believe that they didn't know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 10:41:10 AM
Yes it seems they all got it wrong.. In Harrison's report he states how they had a meeting with the PJ and explained the alerts needed to be verified.. It seems they didn't listen

Who suggested adding the McCann's villa, clothing and car to the dog's itinerary? In my opinion that was Harrison.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 09, 2020, 10:42:27 AM
I'm pointing out how much amaral got wrong...facts not opinions.


You - dont know yet if he did get it wrong fact ....it is only your opinion he did.

Oh and no need to say you understood the evidence - on abduction, there wasn't any.fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 11:03:26 AM
I've included them in Loss of Credibility.  None of them knew about this Convicted Paedophile and Rapist?

I simply do not believe that they didn't know.

Was he a convicted rapist at that point? Had the German police notified the Portuguese that he was wanted in Germany? Did anyone draw the attention of the PJ to this man? If so, who were they and what did they say?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 09, 2020, 11:03:41 AM
The Smith family saw the man with Madeleine that night. Amaral was on the correct path but it is now up to OG  to fully investigate that sighting if they are going to solve this case! If they want to find a body they can start by employing cadaver dogs in boats on Barragem da Bravura lake.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2020, 11:09:23 AM
Was he a convicted rapist at that point? Had the German police notified the Portuguese that he was wanted in Germany? Did anyone draw the attention of the PJ to this man? If so, who were they and what did they say?

He was a Convicted Paedophile.  Isn't that enough?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2020, 11:19:11 AM
Many many people have formed opinions about the McCann's guilt or innocence without meeting them. When the McCanns wanted to flee Portugal it was the man in charge who they approached and who gave his permission; Encarnacao.

What a pejorative word "flee" is particularly when it is used out of context and inaccurately to boot ... but you know that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 09, 2020, 11:21:34 AM

You - dont know yet if he did get it wrong fact ....it is only your opinion he did.

Oh and no need to say you understood the evidence - on abduction, there wasn't any.fact

Do you actually read the posts... I've listed the things he got wrong.. The fallacies on which he based his theory... The fallacies I've pointed out are facts... Not opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2020, 11:33:03 AM
I shudder to think of what The Media will do to Goncalo Amaral over The Cipriano Case if this all proves to be true.

No wonder he went quiet.  He surely must see this coming.

Meanwhile, The Portuguese Judiciary have lost all credibility, even if in not knowing that they had a convicted Paedophile and Rapist rampaging around The Algarve.  Although I don't believe that.

I think they knew perfectly well.  I will give them that they may not have known exactly who, maybe they didn't bother to find out.  But for the allegedly top cop in the drug war not to put two and two together is extraordinary, maybe going after the McCanns was was thought to be the easier option. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2020, 11:47:18 AM
What a pejorative word "flee" is particularly when it is used out of context and inaccurately to boot ... but you know that.

Ok, they ran away.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 09, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
Ok, they ran away.

i'm quite happy with that and i don't blame them...from an inept police force who didn't undersatnd the evidence who might arrest them and hold them in custody
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
Ok, they ran away.

No they didn't.  They left with the permission of The PJ.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 09, 2020, 12:32:25 PM
Do you actually read the posts... I've listed the things he got wrong.. The fallacies on which he based his theory... The fallacies I've pointed out are facts... Not opinion


Do you read mine?

Why did GA go on to write TOTL then - and still stands by what he wrote if he thought he got the evidence all wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2020, 01:24:55 PM
No they didn't.  They left with the permission of The PJ.

I think the rush to taint them with suspicion was because they made it known they were returning home.  The let on the villa was up and when they did go it was with the full knowledge and permission of the Portuguese authorities.

On the other hand Davel's post might not be too far off the mark as the definition describes ...
verb: flee; 3rd person present: flees; past tense: fled; past participle: fled; gerund or present participle: fleeing
run away from a place or situation of danger.

In my opinion they were in mortal danger for the reasons posted and more.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 09, 2020, 02:06:38 PM
I think the rush to taint them with suspicion was because they made it known they were returning home.  The let on the villa was up and when they did go it was with the full knowledge and permission of the Portuguese authorities.

On the other hand Davel's post might not be too far off the mark as the definition describes ...
verb: flee; 3rd person present: flees; past tense: fled; past participle: fled; gerund or present participle: fleeing
run away from a place or situation of danger.

In my opinion they were in mortal danger for the reasons posted and more.

Mortal danger ? That’s a pretty big statement. Care to elaborate?

I seem to remember Philomena being interviewed after they were made arguidos and saying that they would not be leaving Portugal until Madeleine was found.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 09, 2020, 02:49:37 PM
Who suggested adding the McCann's villa, clothing and car to the dog's itinerary? In my opinion that was Harrison.

so its your opinion...which we know is alittle biased...that the decision to screen the car was Harrisons. thats a big accusation...and you have nothing to support it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 09, 2020, 02:52:04 PM

You - dont know yet if he did get it wrong fact ....it is only your opinion he did.

Oh and no need to say you understood the evidence - on abduction, there wasn't any.fact

amaral claimed in his book and documentary..


The dogs had a 100% record
They had never been wrong in 200 cases
That they discovered  a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey
That the evidence he produced in the documentary proved maddie died in the appartment


All wrong   ...not opinion fact and considering according to  a report in the Guardian re the libel trial that the main evidence against the McCanns was the alerts...a disater for the investigation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 09, 2020, 03:06:34 PM
amaral claimed in his book and documentary..


The dogs had a 100% record
They had never been wrong in 200 cases
That they discovered  a cadaver under a slab of concrete in Jersey
That the evidence he produced in the documentary proved maddie died in the appartment


All wrong   ...not opinion fact and considering according to  a report in the Guardian re the libel trial that the main evidence against the McCanns was the alerts...a disater for the investigation

But he still wrote it in his book. - and still believes Maddie died in the apartment

What you don't know IMO is that she didn't - do you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 09, 2020, 03:13:30 PM
If Brueckner, or any one else for that matter did murder Madeleine in the first few days of her disappearance, Amaral cannot be accused of having hindered the search for her by claiming she was dead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2020, 03:18:59 PM
If Brueckner, or any one else for that matter did murder Madeleine in the first few days of her disappearance, Amaral cannot be accused of having hindered the search for her by claiming she was dead.

He certainly can be accused of hindering (I would say obliterating) the search for the perpetrator and getting "justice for Madeleine" by getting even elementary diligences entirely wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 09, 2020, 03:20:55 PM
He certainly can be accused of hindering (I would say obliterating) the search for the perpetrator and getting "justice for Madeleine" by getting even elementary diligences entirely wrong.

Different argument, but thanks for the twist.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 09, 2020, 03:24:22 PM
But he still wrote it in his book. - and still believes Maddie died in the apartment

What you don't know IMO is that she didn't - do you.

I'm pointing out he was wrong.. ..I'm not bothered what amaral thinks... His opinions are based on things thst are not true.. As I've shown
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 09, 2020, 04:58:26 PM
If Brueckner, or any one else for that matter did murder Madeleine in the first few days of her disappearance, Amaral cannot be accused of having hindered the search for her by claiming she was dead.
What can he be accused of, or is he simply a saint in your view?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 09, 2020, 05:01:16 PM
What can he be accused of, or is he simply a saint in your view?
I don't accuse him of anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 09, 2020, 06:16:16 PM
I don't accuse him of anything.
Of course you don’t - the man is the leading figurehead of the anti-McCann crusade of the last 13 years.  No doubt he has your utmost admiration for all he has done for the cause.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 10, 2020, 12:27:37 AM
I'm pointing out he was wrong.. ..I'm not bothered what amaral thinks... His opinions are based on things thst are not true.. As I've shown

As the poster stated you do not know that Madeleine did not die in the Apartment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 10, 2020, 10:26:30 AM
As the poster stated you do not know that Madeleine did not die in the Apartment.

What I do know is that there is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 10, 2020, 10:30:50 AM
What I do know is that there is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment.

There are indications.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 10, 2020, 10:32:59 AM
What I do know is that there is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment.

There is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine was abducted from the apartment either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 10, 2020, 10:34:05 AM
There are indications.

Oh, those blimmin dogs again.  Where is Martin Grime when you need him?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 10, 2020, 10:35:03 AM
As the poster stated you do not know that Madeleine did not die in the Apartment.

What i know is that amaral claimed things that were not true...and these untrue things were part of his evidence to support his theory.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 10, 2020, 10:46:58 AM
What i know is that amaral claimed things that were not true...and these untrue things were part of his evidence to support his theory.

I am still hoping that Amaral was trying to vindicate himself over the cock up of The Cipriano Case and therefor had to try and prove that it was another Mother who did this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 10, 2020, 11:03:15 AM
What I do know is that there is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment.

Do you believe the DNA (we can presume it’s from white blood cells) was from a “nosebleed” that Madeleine often had but GM couldn’t say if she’s had one on holiday? Or you don’t believe it was from her despite the DNA match of 15 out of 18 markers?

Also where do you believe the cadaverine originated from?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 10, 2020, 11:08:35 AM
Do you believe the DNA (we can presume it’s from white blood cells) was from a “nosebleed” that Madeleine often had but GM couldn’t say if she’s had one on holiday? Or you don’t believe it was from her despite the DNA match of 15 out of 18 markers?

Also where do you believe the cadaverine originated from?

Cadaverines come from many things and not just dead bodies.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 10, 2020, 01:50:01 PM
Do you believe the DNA (we can presume it’s from white blood cells) was from a “nosebleed” that Madeleine often had but GM couldn’t say if she’s had one on holiday? Or you don’t believe it was from her despite the DNA match of 15 out of 18 markers?

Also where do you believe the cadaverine originated from?

Dead white blood cells, along with tissue debris & bacteria, can be found in pus. Both the VRD & CSI dog were trained to alert to the individual components of blood.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 10, 2020, 02:05:16 PM
Do you believe the DNA (we can presume it’s from white blood cells) was from a “nosebleed” that Madeleine often had but GM couldn’t say if she’s had one on holiday? Or you don’t believe it was from her despite the DNA match of 15 out of 18 markers?

Also where do you believe the cadaverine originated from?

you are making an assumption taht cadaverine was present. you do realise eddie reacts to blood too and whilst keela raects only to blood that has dried in situ ...eddie reacts to blood that has not dried in situ. This means that even if only eddie alerts the alert may be to blood and not cadaverine
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 10, 2020, 02:14:28 PM
you are making an assumption taht cadaverine was present. you do realise eddie reacts to blood too and whilst keela raects only to blood that has dried in situ ...eddie reacts to blood that has not dried in situ. This means that even if only eddie alerts the alert may be to blood and not cadaverine

If Keela doesn’t alert then it’s cadaverine. Keela didn’t alert in the bedroom.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 10, 2020, 02:15:20 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/DQJWgQd/1591794783002.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 10, 2020, 02:17:40 PM
If Keela doesn’t alert then it’s cadaverine. Keela didn’t alert in the bedroom.

not according to Grime...keela only alerts to blood dried in situ...eddie alerts to both blood dried in itu and blood not dried in situ
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 10, 2020, 02:25:27 PM
not according to Grime...keela only alerts to blood dried in situ...eddie alerts to both blood dried in itu and blood not dried in situ

Eddie alerts to blood and the scent given off by a cadaver....Keela alerts to blood...therefore if Eddie alerts and Keela doesn’t it isn’t to blood. It really is that simple.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 10, 2020, 02:31:47 PM
Eddie alerts to blood and the scent given off by a cadaver....Keela alerts to blood...therefore if Eddie alerts and Keela doesn’t it isn’t to blood. It really is that simple.

you are quite wrong

Its never that simple...im quoting what Grime has said and hes the trainer. Again...keela only alerts to blood dried in situ...eddie alerts to blood that may have been shed ...diluted with water and not dried immediately. Therefore no alert from keela but an  alert from eddie could be blood.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 10, 2020, 02:39:00 PM
Eddie alerts to blood and the scent given off by a cadaver....Keela alerts to blood...therefore if Eddie alerts and Keela doesn’t it isn’t to blood. It really is that simple.

So what do you think Eddie was alerting to?  I have had a bit of a problem with this.

What else stinks of Cadaver?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 10, 2020, 02:58:23 PM
you are quite wrong

Its never that simple...im quoting what Grime has said and hes the trainer. Again...keela only alerts to blood dried in situ...eddie alerts to blood that may have been shed ...diluted with water and not dried immediately. Therefore no alert from keela but an  alert from eddie could be blood.

In Grime's opinion all of Eddie's alerts were to cadaver scent - no blood was found on the clothes and Keela did not alert only Eddie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 10, 2020, 03:28:57 PM
In Grime's opinion all of Eddie's alerts were to cadaver scent - no blood was found on the clothes and Keela did not alert only Eddie.

you are wrong...which doesnt say a lot for your understanding of the alerts after 13 years. Grime said possible or suggestive of cadaver scent..he didnt say they were to cadaver scent....he also said keela doesnt react to blood that hasnt dried in situ but eddie does...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 10, 2020, 04:35:04 PM
you are wrong...which doesnt say a lot for your understanding of the alerts after 13 years. Grime said possible or suggestive of cadaver scent..he didnt say they were to cadaver scent....he also said keela doesnt react to blood that hasnt dried in situ but eddie does...

You are wrong.

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 10, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
You are wrong.

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

It says.. Suggestive... Not that it is cadaver scent.. You've just proved me right.. LOL
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 10, 2020, 05:41:28 PM
There is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine was abducted from the apartment either.

Madeleine did not vanish in a puff of smoke and now we have been made aware of individuals fitting a profile on the loose and active in Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine's disappearance it makes it all the more extraordinary that Amaral neglected to do something about that rather than his own thing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 10, 2020, 05:47:15 PM
Madeleine did not vanish in a puff of smoke and now we have been made aware of individuals fitting a profile on the loose and active in Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine's disappearance it makes it all the more extraordinary that Amaral neglected to do something about that rather than his own thing.

We are never going to get our heads around the gross incompetence of Goncalo Amaral, so probably best to stop trying.

If it was just gross incompetence of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 10, 2020, 06:05:20 PM
It says.. Suggestive... Not that it is cadaver scent.. You've just proved me right.. LOL

That is the wording they use. If they ever put Martin Grime on the stand you will know what he thinks!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 10, 2020, 06:10:59 PM
That is the wording they use. If they ever put Martin Grime on the stand you will know what he thinks!

so you accept you are wrong...but of course you think you know what grime thinks
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 10, 2020, 06:36:10 PM
You guys still arguing about the dog alerts 13 years later, hilarious.  They are not relevant and haven’t been for the last 12 years.  Ask the three police forces involved  how much  relevance they have to their current investigation and I guarantee it will be zero.  Why isn’t MG out there now searching for Madeleine’s body on Brückner’s properties?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 10, 2020, 08:01:02 PM
That's funny I'm sure I saw dogs with Operation Grange in PDL but maybe I was dreaming!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 10, 2020, 08:10:32 PM
That's funny I'm sure I saw dogs with Operation Grange in PDL but maybe I was dreaming!
Oh, was it Martin Grime?  Maybe you were dreaming!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 10, 2020, 08:11:44 PM
That is the wording they use. If they ever put Martin Grime on the stand you will know what he thinks!

I believe Martin Grime said Eddie could have been alerting to ancient scents. That covers about everything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 10, 2020, 08:13:35 PM
Madeleine did not vanish in a puff of smoke and now we have been made aware of individuals fitting a profile on the loose and active in Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine's disappearance it makes it all the more extraordinary that Amaral neglected to do something about that rather than his own thing.

There's still no evidence of abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 10, 2020, 08:17:40 PM
There's still no evidence of abduction.
Yes there is.  Just because you don’t accept it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.  If there is literally no evidence that Madeleine was abducted then you must think three police forces are completely mad or corrupt or both.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 01:15:03 AM
There's still no evidence of abduction.

There is eye witness evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 11, 2020, 04:06:05 AM
There is eye witness evidence.
To what?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 08:33:17 AM
To what?

Please do not start another day of stupid, meaningless, disruptive comment. 

Just scroll back to previous immediate comments and it will give an idea of exactly what is being 'debated'.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 11, 2020, 08:36:51 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/11/madeleine-mccann-case-police-portugal-remain-convinced-parents/

Hans Christian Wolters, the state prosecutor in Braunschweig, northern Germany, said working with the Portuguese authorities over the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine is "time consuming" as both sides have differing opinions on what happened to the missing three-year-old.

It was Mr Wolters who announced last week that a 43-year-old German man - later identified as convicted paedophile Christian B - was now the key suspect in her disappearance.

He insists it is now a "German investigation" and evidence is passed to the Portuguese police when appropriate.

The suspect is currently serving a jail sentence for a drugs offence and has been put in isolation to protect him from fellow prisoners following last week's revelations. He is also receiving counselling on how to deal with the intense media coverage and has appointed Johann Schwenn, one of Germany's most high-profile defence lawyers, it was disclosed yesterday.

Madeleine went missing from Praia da Luz while on holiday with her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, and two siblings.

The Portuguese police have faced significant criticism for their handling of the case, which involved naming the McCanns as official suspects -- or "arguidos" -- for 10 months.

Mr Wolters said the prosecutor's office in Braunschweig, the town where the suspect lived most recently, has evidence that suggests he killed Madeleine in Portugal not long after her abduction.

"We have no evidence that he held on to Maddie for some period. I personally think that she was killed a short time after she disappeared," he said.

Commenting on the working relationship with the Portuguese police, Mr Wolters said: "Working together with authorities in south European countries is generally more time-consuming. They take a long time for everything and the French or British police are faster. We do stay in contact with the colleagues in Portugal, but everything is more cumbersome.

"I think the Portuguese officials still think that Maddie's parents are responsible for her disappearance." A senior source in the Portuguese police yesterday said that they are not searching any of the suspect's former homes until they get a request from Germany. "We will do what they say," he said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 11, 2020, 10:34:24 AM
There is eye witness evidence.

Yes 9 crucial ones - the Smiths as Amaral said 13 years ago!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 12:19:56 PM
Yes 9 crucial ones - the Smiths as Amaral said 13 years ago!

My reference was to the eye witness who reported what she saw to the police at the earliest possible opportunity, which is when they arrived at the crime scene.
It had nothing to do with the Smiths who only reported their sighting a fortnight after the event as the result of Mr Smith the younger wondering if he had dreamt the whole thing up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 11, 2020, 01:16:23 PM
Still the final lead in this case after the German is cleared.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 01:55:07 PM
My reference was to the eye witness who reported what she saw to the police at the earliest possible opportunity, which is when they arrived at the crime scene.
It had nothing to do with the Smiths who only reported their sighting a fortnight after the event as the result of Mr Smith the younger wondering if he had dreamt the whole thing up.

Jane Tanner saw Doctor Totman.  Next!

What are you suggesting about the Smith family ?

Did this family of 9 have a group hallucination?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 11, 2020, 02:59:42 PM
Jane Tanner saw Doctor Totman.  Next!

What are you suggesting about the Smith family ?

Did this family of 9 have a group hallucination?

A hallucination that OG made their main suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 03:06:48 PM
Jane Tanner saw Doctor Totman.  Next!

What are you suggesting about the Smith family ?

Did this family of 9 have a group hallucination?


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 11, 2020, 03:31:08 PM

  • Jane Tanner saw Doctor Totman.  Next!

    Have you seen these people? Do you know who they might be?
    witness_accountsThese two pictures show a man carrying a child away from the family's apartment. This sighting was seen by a witness at 21:15 on the evening of Thursday, May 3rd, 2007.

    Based on more recent information, the Metropolitan Police now believe this man may represent a guest at the Ocean Club who was carrying his daughter back to their apartment. However as it is not possible to be certain that these two men are actually the same person, if you have seen this man in the pictures or suspect who it may be, please contact the Metropolitan Police's OPERATION GRANGE on 0207 321 9251 (0044 207 321 9251 from outside the UK) or Operation.Grange@met.pnn.police.uk and/or the Find Madeleine team on +44 845 838 4699 or investigation@findmadeleine.com.
  • What are you suggesting about the Smith family ?

    "We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police.
    Daily Mail (appeared in paper edition only)  January 3, 2008

Is your first quote from the Find Madeleine site ?

Just checked, yes it is.

Now do you have something from OG because as far as I’m aware OG have never suggested what you have quoted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 05:05:53 PM


  • Jane Tanner saw Doctor Totman.  Next!

    Have you seen these people? Do you know who they might be?
    witness_accountsThese two pictures show a man carrying a child away from the family's apartment. This sighting was seen by a witness at 21:15 on the evening of Thursday, May 3rd, 2007.

    Based on more recent information, the Metropolitan Police now believe this man may represent a guest at the Ocean Club who was carrying his daughter back to their apartment. However as it is not possible to be certain that these two men are actually the same person, if you have seen this man in the pictures or suspect who it may be, please contact the Metropolitan Police's OPERATION GRANGE on 0207 321 9251 (0044 207 321 9251 from outside the UK) or Operation.Grange@met.pnn.police.uk and/or the Find Madeleine team on +44 845 838 4699 or investigation@findmadeleine.com.
  • What are you suggesting about the Smith family ?

    "We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police.
    Daily Mail (appeared in paper edition only)  January 3, 2008

Quoting the find Madeleine website LOL

Remember how they never publicised them Smith e-fits?

I wonder why they did that, considering the whole Smith family were only dreaming & it definitely wasn't Gerry.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 07:11:27 PM
Quoting the find Madeleine website LOL

Remember how they never publicised them Smith e-fits?

I wonder why they did that, considering the whole Smith family were only dreaming & it definitely wasn't Gerry.

You have made a claim regarding Jane Tanner which is false.

You asked if the Smiths were hallucinating ... according to them they had to check it out that they weren't dreaming.

I think it might be more pertinent for you to wonder why Amaral didn't bother to do anything about the Smith sighting.  He did know about it between May and September 2007 ... why do you suppose he didn't bother to publicise it at any time during that period?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 11, 2020, 07:13:36 PM
Why don't you tell us ? You think you know all the answers
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 11, 2020, 07:14:21 PM
You have made a claim regarding Jane Tanner which is false.

You asked if the Smiths were hallucinating ... according to them they had to check it out that they weren't dreaming.

I think it might be more pertinent for you to wonder why Amaral didn't bother to do anything about the Smith sighting.  He did know about it between May and September 2007 ... why do you suppose he didn't bother to publicise it at any time during that period?

He investigated the sighting, took statements and then later made arrangements for the family to return to Portugal for further questionning and a formal ID.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2020, 07:15:07 PM
You have made a claim regarding Jane Tanner which is false.

You asked if the Smiths were hallucinating ... according to them they had to check it out that they weren't dreaming.

I think it might be more pertinent for you to wonder why Amaral didn't bother to do anything about the Smith sighting.  He did know about it between May and September 2007 ... why do you suppose he didn't bother to publicise it at any time during that period?

The police believe Jane Tanner saw doctor Totman.

Jane Tanner hasn't disputed this. Ergo, she's satisfied she saw him & not an abductor.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 11, 2020, 07:21:30 PM
The police believe Jane Tanner saw doctor Totman.

Jane Tanner hasn't disputed this. Ergo, she's satisfied she saw him & not an abductor.

IMO Tanner is keeping her head down and wishes it would all go away.
If only she hadn't listened to Dave when he said' Hey guys how about a week in Portugal?'
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2020, 08:06:57 PM
IMO Tanner is keeping her head down and wishes it would all go away.
If only she hadn't listened to Dave when he said' Hey guys how about a week in Portugal?'

I imagine the whole holiday group feel likewise.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 11, 2020, 11:50:13 PM
He investigated the sighting, took statements and then later made arrangements for the family to return to Portugal for further questionning and a formal ID.

Between May and September Amaral did absolutely nothing regarding the Smiths.  He just was not interested.             The Smith episode was bracketed by two significant events which makes it stand out.

Why was it that Amaral showed no interest in Richard McCluskey's sworn statement which was in the hands of the PJ prior to Martin Smith's. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on June 12, 2020, 12:02:14 AM
There is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine was abducted from the apartment either.


So how did she vanish?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 12:53:16 AM
Between May and September Amaral did absolutely nothing regarding the Smiths.  He just was not interested.             The Smith episode was bracketed by two significant events which makes it stand out.

Why was it that Amaral showed no interest in Richard McCluskey's sworn statement which was in the hands of the PJ prior to Martin Smith's. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

Do you think if you say something enough times it becomes the truth ? Amaral brought some of the Smith family back for a reconstruction. That isn’t absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 12, 2020, 01:37:52 AM

So how did she vanish?
Best direct that at three separate investigative police forces,doesn't seem to any accord there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 12, 2020, 01:54:04 AM
Do you think if you say something enough times it becomes the truth ? Amaral brought some of the Smith family back for a reconstruction. That isn’t absolutely nothing.

Again I ask - why was the Smith family reconstruction deemed more important than one by the Tapas group?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 02:55:17 AM
Again I ask - why was the Smith family reconstruction deemed more important than one by the Tapas group?

It wasn't. Amaral wanted to do both. Arrangements were made for the Smith family. The T7 threw up loads of obstacles and were most reluctant to agree to a reconstruction arranged by the PJ.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2020, 04:44:58 AM
It wasn't. Amaral wanted to do both. Arrangements were made for the Smith family. The T7 threw up loads of obstacles and were most reluctant to agree to a reconstruction arranged by the PJ.
The three Smiths were brought over to Praia da Luz on the 26th May 2007. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
The month of June went past ... Amaral took no action and the Smiths were ignored.
The month of July came and went ... still Amaral took no action re the Smiths.
August passed ... without Amaral doing anything about the Smith sighting.

For most of September the Smiths continued to be ignored until suddenly Amaral claims to have been galvanised into action by an addition made to his original statement by Martin Smiith on 20th September, 2007 as follows ...

Snip
"This is the Irish family that saw a man transporting a child on the night in question and returned to Portugal to collaborate with the investigation. Martin Smith contacted our department stating that after having observed the McCann family on TV alighting from the plane, he believes that the person he saw carrying the child that night was Gerry McCann." ...
"He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head."


Prior to that another credible witness made a change to his statement on 12th September 2007 to the effect that ...

Snip
"I have already provided a witness statement in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I would like to add the following; ...
Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

So having the McCluskey amendment to hand on 12th September in conjunction with the amended Smith statement of the 20th September absolutely no arrangements tentative or otherwise, had been made for either party to come to Portugal to assist the investigation in any way whatsoever as Amaral bungled his way towards his sacking from Madeleine's case on the 3rd of October 2007.

Snip
National police director Alipio Ribeiro last night confirmed that Mr Amaral had been removed from the case and demoted, saying it was a "decision I took myself".
_____________________________________________________

Forensic tests were conducted on behalf of the Portuguese police at a government laboratory in Birmingham. Portuguese police leaked to the local press that the evidence indicated DNA from Madeleine was in the boot of a rental car the McCanns used after her disappearance, and led to them becoming formal suspects. However, Mr Ribeiro said the forensic tests were inconclusive.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4


The evidence does not support what Amaral says about making arrangements for the Smiths, but nothing new about Amaral making unsupported allegations.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2020, 07:46:05 AM

So how did she vanish?

Nobody knows for sure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 12, 2020, 08:04:59 AM
Nobody knows for sure.
But abduction from the apartment is “virtually impossible “, you forgot to add.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2020, 08:09:03 AM
Between May and September Amaral did absolutely nothing regarding the Smiths.  He just was not interested.             The Smith episode was bracketed by two significant events which makes it stand out.

Why was it that Amaral showed no interest in Richard McCluskey's sworn statement which was in the hands of the PJ prior to Martin Smith's. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

Mr McClusky thought he saw Kate McCann; even though she didn't speak English! The couple he saw were investigated and ruled out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2020, 08:17:53 AM
But abduction from the apartment is “virtually impossible “, you forgot to add.

I was merely referring to the lack of evidence of abduction, not to the logistics of it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 12, 2020, 08:29:43 AM
I was merely referring to the lack of evidence of abduction, not to the logistics of it.
That makes no sense.  A  LACK of evidence doesn’t make something virtually impossible.  In any case if I recall correctly, your critique included logistics also.  You poo-pooed the idea that there was any time for an abductor to strike.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2020, 09:11:38 AM
That makes no sense. A  LACK of evidence doesn’t make something virtually impossible.  In any case if I recall correctly, your critique included logistics also.  You poo-pooed the idea that there was any time for an abductor to strike.

You are conflating two seperate arguments. One is whether there was any evidence of abduction. The other is whether there was opprtunity for an abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 09:27:23 AM
The three Smiths were brought over to Praia da Luz on the 26th May 2007. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
The month of June went past ... Amaral took no action and the Smiths were ignored.
The month of July came and went ... still Amaral took no action re the Smiths.
August passed ... without Amaral doing anything about the Smith sighting.

For most of September the Smiths continued to be ignored until suddenly Amaral claims to have been galvanised into action by an addition made to his original statement by Martin Smiith on 20th September, 2007 as follows ...

Snip
"This is the Irish family that saw a man transporting a child on the night in question and returned to Portugal to collaborate with the investigation. Martin Smith contacted our department stating that after having observed the McCann family on TV alighting from the plane, he believes that the person he saw carrying the child that night was Gerry McCann." ...
"He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head."


Prior to that another credible witness made a change to his statement on 12th September 2007 to the effect that ...

Snip
"I have already provided a witness statement in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I would like to add the following; ...
Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

So having the McCluskey amendment to hand on 12th September in conjunction with the amended Smith statement of the 20th September absolutely no arrangements tentative or otherwise, had been made for either party to come to Portugal to assist the investigation in any way whatsoever as Amaral bungled his way towards his sacking from Madeleine's case on the 3rd of October 2007.

Snip
National police director Alipio Ribeiro last night confirmed that Mr Amaral had been removed from the case and demoted, saying it was a "decision I took myself".
_____________________________________________________

Forensic tests were conducted on behalf of the Portuguese police at a government laboratory in Birmingham. Portuguese police leaked to the local press that the evidence indicated DNA from Madeleine was in the boot of a rental car the McCanns used after her disappearance, and led to them becoming formal suspects. However, Mr Ribeiro said the forensic tests were inconclusive.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/03/ukcrime.uknews4


The evidence does not support what Amaral says about making arrangements for the Smiths, but nothing new about Amaral making unsupported allegations.

It's because Martin Smith had his lightbulb moment and contacted the Police again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 09:30:33 AM
It's because Martin Smith had his lightbulb moment and contacted the Police again.

Some light bulb moment.  That's how most people carry small children.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 12, 2020, 10:10:46 AM
I was merely referring to the lack of evidence of abduction, not to the logistics of it.
In reality the available evidence proves that abduction is highly likely
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 10:36:08 AM
In reality the available evidence proves that abduction is highly likely

And what evidence shows that? I’m yet to see any!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2020, 10:46:42 AM
It's because Martin Smith had his lightbulb moment and contacted the Police again.

You are ignoring the point I made.

Mr McCluskey too had an almost identical "lightbulb moment".

Only he had his on the 10th of September while Mr Smith's was on the 20th of September.

Why would Amaral say he was 'about to act' on one and why ignore the other.

I reiterate ... Amaral apparently had no interest in re-enactments of any kind apart from vetoing an earlier one ... it was Rebelo who tried to organise one through issuing a letter of request and the proposed dates suggested were
28/29 April or 15/16 May.  https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RE_ENACTMENT.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 12, 2020, 10:47:14 AM
And what evidence shows that? I’m yet to see any!
What is the probability of the parents being involved and what do you base that figure on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2020, 10:57:14 AM
Mr McClusky thought he saw Kate McCann; even though she didn't speak English! The couple he saw were investigated and ruled out.

Did the police ever have sight of the lookalike child before the man seen by Mr McCluskey took her to his country of origin?

Apart from asking neighbours what other diligences did they perform ... did they for example check travel arrangements or if the man travelled with one Madeleine McCann lookalike (who might not have been a lookalike) or two?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 10:59:17 AM
Some light bulb moment.  That's how most people carry small children.

Strange then that the McCanns own 'reconstruction' had Smithman's child being carried like firewood.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 11:08:27 AM
Again I ask - why was the Smith family reconstruction deemed more important than one by the Tapas group?

The Smith reconstruction didn’t attract the same publicity that a McCann/Tapas one would. It is worth pointing out that this would not have been only Amaral’s decision to make. For the record I think the decision was wrong. I think the PJ should have physically nailed down the collective Tapas timeline as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2020, 11:31:56 AM
The Smith reconstruction didn’t attract the same publicity that a McCann/Tapas one would. It is worth pointing out that this would not have been only Amaral’s decision to make. For the record I think the decision was wrong. I think the PJ should have physically nailed down the collective Tapas timeline as soon as possible.

With hindsight we know that the group should have been separated and interviewed straight away. So should the Tapas staff. At the time I don't see how that would have been seen as desirable or doable however.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 11:41:42 AM
The Smith reconstruction didn’t attract the same publicity that a McCann/Tapas one would. It is worth pointing out that this would not have been only Amaral’s decision to make. For the record I think the decision was wrong. I think the PJ should have physically nailed down the collective Tapas timeline as soon as possible.

The PJ weren't capable of nailing down anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 11:45:17 AM
With hindsight we know that the group should have been separated and interviewed straight away. So should the Tapas staff. At the time I don't see how that would have been seen as desirable or doable however.

By Whom?  They were interviewed on the next day.  But Amaral had already decided that The McCanns were guilty.

How on earth was Amaral allowed to Coordinate this Case?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 12, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Mr McClusky thought he saw Kate McCann; even though she didn't speak English! The couple he saw were investigated and ruled out.

And that sighting happened many miles away and not at the time of the disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 01:57:55 PM
What is the probability of the parents being involved and what do you base that figure on

Presuming she is dead and killed (which we can't actually say for sure) then statistically it's likely to be a family member that has committed the crime.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 02:03:51 PM
Strange then that the McCanns own 'reconstruction' had Smithman's child being carried like firewood.

And RH has Smithman carrying a child like Tannerman does.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 12, 2020, 02:06:47 PM
Strange then that the McCanns own 'reconstruction' had Smithman's child being carried like firewood.

The McCann's 'own' reconstruction??   Do you mean the one the Police did for Crimewatch?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 02:07:10 PM
Presuming she is dead and killed (which we can't actually say for sure) then statistically it's likely to be a family member that has committed the crime.

Or Not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2020, 02:29:11 PM
With hindsight we know that the group should have been separated and interviewed straight away. So should the Tapas staff. At the time I don't see how that would have been seen as desirable or doable however.

I’m not sure why not as we are not talking about large numbers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 12, 2020, 02:31:09 PM
Presuming she is dead and killed (which we can't actually say for sure) then statistically it's likely to be a family member that has committed the crime.

I think you had better get that information to OG German Police and Portuguese Police
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 12, 2020, 02:33:49 PM
I think you had better get that information to OG German Police and Portuguese Police

Somehow I don't think they'll be interested in clouding the issue.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 12, 2020, 02:38:42 PM
Somehow I don't think they'll be interested in clouding the issue.

Tick Tock.  Playing a Blinder, eh what!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 12, 2020, 03:07:29 PM
The McCann's 'own' reconstruction??   Do you mean the one the Police did for Crimewatch?

Nope. Crimewatch got it right.
I was talking about the propaganda film that was 'Madeleine was here'.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 12, 2020, 03:12:08 PM
Excessive propaganda! Tannerman is Smithman  @)(++(*

Tannerman is found but not Smithyboy!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 12, 2020, 04:18:21 PM
You are conflating two seperate arguments. One is whether there was any evidence of abduction. The other is whether there was opprtunity for an abduction.
I’m conflating nothing.  You repeatedly stated that abduction in your view was virtually impossible.  Why do you believe that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 12, 2020, 04:21:09 PM
Nope. Crimewatch got it right.
I was talking about the propaganda film that was 'Madeleine was here'.

That's crazy!! They portrayed Smithman as crucial 5 years too late and pretended it was a new breakthrough in the case!! Great e-fit though - I'll grant you that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2020, 08:28:39 PM
Nope. Crimewatch got it right.
I was talking about the propaganda film that was 'Madeleine was here'.

'Madeleine was here' was not made by the McCanns ... it was a Channel 4 documentary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 12, 2020, 08:31:56 PM
Their investigators did the reconstruction i.e. their team.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 02:47:14 AM
I think you had better get that information to OG German Police and Portuguese Police

They know that already. I was talking about well known statistics. That’s why the OG investigation is flawed. You don’t start from a presumption that there is no family involvement.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 08:55:45 AM
They know that already. I was talking about well known statistics. That’s why the OG investigation is flawed. You don’t start from a presumption that there is no family involvement.

OG examined the evidence in the PJ files and deduced that the McCanns had been ruled out. The Portuguese Supreme Court explained in 2017 that they hadn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 09:00:55 AM
OG examined the evidence in the PJ files and deduced that the McCanns had been ruled out. The Portuguese Supreme Court explained in 2017 that they hadn't.

Exactly!! So OG should have gone back to the possibility of family involvement - even if that's to rule it out. OG was totally flawed from the start.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 09:16:12 AM
I think you had better get that information to OG German Police and Portuguese Police

This is from a research article in the BMJ:

Conclusion: Children face the highest risk of homicide by parents and someone they know. Increased investment into the compilation of routine data on child homicide, and the perpetrators of this homicide is imperative for understanding and ultimately reducing child homicide mortality worldwide.

Trial registration number PROSPERO registration number: CRD42015030125.

So OG was flawed from the outset. The parents should have been investigated to rule them out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 09:24:36 AM
They know that already. I was talking about well known statistics. That’s why the OG investigation is flawed. You don’t start from a presumption that there is no family involvement.

Apparently procedure is that you check out the family and anyone else in close contact for elimination purposes.  But according to his book Amaral suspected the parents from day one before any investigation was carried out and never deviated from that. Why don't you think that is devious and flawed when he was subsequently proved to be so wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2020, 10:08:19 AM
Presuming she is dead and killed (which we can't actually say for sure) then statistically it's likely to be a family member that has committed the crime.

That is not true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2020, 10:17:49 AM
This is from a research article in the BMJ:

Conclusion: Children face the highest risk of homicide by parents and someone they know. Increased investment into the compilation of routine data on child homicide, and the perpetrators of this homicide is imperative for understanding and ultimately reducing child homicide mortality worldwide.

Trial registration number PROSPERO registration number: CRD42015030125.

So OG was flawed from the outset. The parents should have been investigated to rule them out.

SY said they looked at the involment of the family..they therefore have looked at the evidence and decided the parents are not involved. what further investigations do you think would be useful.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2020, 10:19:28 AM
That's crazy!! They portrayed Smithman as crucial 5 years too late and pretended it was a new breakthrough in the case!! Great e-fit though - I'll grant you that.

Could you expalin why you accept the smith sighting as being totally correct yet dismiss all the sightings of maddie as being suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2020, 10:24:25 AM
SY said they looked at the involment of the family..they therefore have looked at the evidence and decided the parents are not involved. what further investigations do you think would be useful.

Simon Foy was talkiing a load of BS! No police force reviews an old case and rules anything out regardless of what a previous police force has done or not. They look at EVERYTHING with fresh eyes!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2020, 10:26:30 AM
Simon Foy was talkiing a load of BS! No police force reviews an old case and rules anything out regardless of what a previous police force has done or not. They look at EVERYTHING with fresh eyes!

I would say they have...perhaps you think thta's BS too...but who cares what you think
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2020, 10:48:26 AM
Simon Foy was talkiing a load of BS! No police force reviews an old case and rules anything out regardless of what a previous police force has done or not. They look at EVERYTHING with fresh eyes!

look at what precisely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 11:01:18 AM
Bungling local Madeleine McCann officers froze me out, says top UK detective who claims 'macho, 1970s culture' of Portuguese police hindered the hunt for suspect
He could have helped while evidence was fresh but his input was unwelcome

On May 7, 2007, Dr Hill – then a Surrey detective superintendent seconded to the UK’s new Child Exploitation and Online Protection centre – flew to Portugal to lend expert help to the hunt for Madeleine.

Detective Superintendent Hill – who had secured the world’s first conviction based on familial DNA – could have helped while the evidence was still fresh.

But thanks to systemic dysfunction and suspicion of outside intervention by the Portuguese police team – led by detective Goncalo Amaral, who would be removed from the case and publish a book which made false allegations against Madeleine’s parents – his input was unwelcome.

‘It was fraught from the word go. The detectives were very polite and measured but also suspicious of why we were there and what we were seeking to achieve. I only met Amaral on that first occasion and one further meeting. Clearly he felt he did not need my help.’

Dr Hill said he asked every day for information or a meeting with someone connected to the case, adding: ‘I had to do all the pushing. The meeting would be scheduled then, invariably, cancelled.

‘If I asked about search strategies they would simply tell me they were doing everything possible. If I asked about known sex offenders they would tell me it was all in hand. I was kept at a distance. I could offer advice on predatory sex offenders and hope they would show some interest and engage, but they didn’t.

It was several days before they even told him they were focused on a prime suspect – British expat Robert Murat. Dr Hill offered them advice on interview techniques, which was the only time he believes they ever really listened to him, but Murat proved to be completely innocent.

No other suspects were ever mentioned to him. The McCanns only became suspects, or ‘arguidos’, in September – another indication of how the investigation was run badly from the start.

Dr Hill said that had Portuguese detectives been more willing to discuss the case ‘I would have told them the first people they needed to eliminate from the investigation is the parents or a relative’. He added: ‘For the Portuguese to make them suspects months later was complete nonsense.

‘The job had got away from them very early on and they never recovered. It was too big for them.’

After ten days of passive obstruction, Dr Hill returned to the UK.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 11:28:59 AM
Bungling local Madeleine McCann officers froze me out, says top UK detective who claims 'macho, 1970s culture' of Portuguese police hindered the hunt for suspect
He could have helped while evidence was fresh but his input was unwelcome

On May 7, 2007, Dr Hill – then a Surrey detective superintendent seconded to the UK’s new Child Exploitation and Online Protection centre – flew to Portugal to lend expert help to the hunt for Madeleine.

Detective Superintendent Hill – who had secured the world’s first conviction based on familial DNA – could have helped while the evidence was still fresh.

But thanks to systemic dysfunction and suspicion of outside intervention by the Portuguese police team – led by detective Goncalo Amaral, who would be removed from the case and publish a book which made false allegations against Madeleine’s parents – his input was unwelcome.

‘It was fraught from the word go. The detectives were very polite and measured but also suspicious of why we were there and what we were seeking to achieve. I only met Amaral on that first occasion and one further meeting. Clearly he felt he did not need my help.’

Dr Hill said he asked every day for information or a meeting with someone connected to the case, adding: ‘I had to do all the pushing. The meeting would be scheduled then, invariably, cancelled.

‘If I asked about search strategies they would simply tell me they were doing everything possible. If I asked about known sex offenders they would tell me it was all in hand. I was kept at a distance. I could offer advice on predatory sex offenders and hope they would show some interest and engage, but they didn’t.

It was several days before they even told him they were focused on a prime suspect – British expat Robert Murat. Dr Hill offered them advice on interview techniques, which was the only time he believes they ever really listened to him, but Murat proved to be completely innocent.

No other suspects were ever mentioned to him. The McCanns only became suspects, or ‘arguidos’, in September – another indication of how the investigation was run badly from the start.

Dr Hill said that had Portuguese detectives been more willing to discuss the case ‘I would have told them the first people they needed to eliminate from the investigation is the parents or a relative’. He added: ‘For the Portuguese to make them suspects months later was complete nonsense.

‘The job had got away from them very early on and they never recovered. It was too big for them.’

After ten days of passive obstruction, Dr Hill returned to the UK.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

Sound like an ego who’s had his nose put out of joint.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 11:30:02 AM
Apparently procedure is that you check out the family and anyone else in close contact for elimination purposes.  But according to his book Amaral suspected the parents from day one before any investigation was carried out and never deviated from that. Why don't you think that is devious and flawed when he was subsequently proved to be so wrong.

TOTL pages 15/16

4th May in the morning. Amaral lists the possibilities, but chooses no one of them above the other.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
Sound like an ego who’s had his nose put out of joint.

That is exactly what I read into it ... the one thing Amaral has in spades is an ego and like a few egocentrics he allowed his to get in the way of functioning efficiently in the day job.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 12:01:49 PM
Sound like an ego who’s had his nose put out of joint.

From 2007-2011 he was Head of Behaviour Analysis, Child Exploitation Online Protection centre (CEOP). His job was to advise on the behaviour of child sex abusers. Before that he was a Surrey police officer.

In the article he seems to be suggesting he had a wider role and a wealth of knowledge on search procedures and interview techniques. I expect he had knowledge, but no more than any other senior detective.

At the time he had no expertise which entitled him to interfere in or judge the PJ's investigation imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 12:41:54 PM
From 2007-2011 he was Head of Behaviour Analysis, Child Exploitation Online Protection centre (CEOP). His job was to advise on the behaviour of child sex abusers. Before that he was a Surrey police officer.

In the article he seems to be suggesting he had a wider role and a wealth of knowledge on search procedures and interview techniques. I expect he had knowledge, but no more than any other senior detective.

At the time he had no expertise which entitled him to interfere in or judge the PJ's investigation imo.

He was on the ground and had a professional opinion of his experience.  Which was borne out by the back to front way Amaral conducted the case ...
Snip
Dr Hill said that had Portuguese detectives been more willing to discuss the case ‘I would have told them the first people they needed to eliminate from the investigation is the parents or a relative’. He added: ‘For the Portuguese to make them suspects months later was complete nonsense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

I think he makes a pretty powerful indictment of the way Madeleine's case was conducted and obviously as a Detective Superintendent had more than clue what he was talking about something Amaral could never be accused of.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 12:52:10 PM
SY said they looked at the involment of the family..they therefore have looked at the evidence and decided the parents are not involved. what further investigations do you think would be useful.

Have you a cite for that please?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 12:53:14 PM
Could you expalin why you accept the smith sighting as being totally correct yet dismiss all the sightings of maddie as being suspect.

Which sightings of Maddie?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 12:59:08 PM

He was on the ground and had a professional opinion of his experience.  Which was borne out by the back to front way Amaral conducted the case ...
Snip
Dr Hill said that had Portuguese detectives been more willing to discuss the case ‘I would have told them the first people they needed to eliminate from the investigation is the parents or a relative’. He added: ‘For the Portuguese to make them suspects months later was complete nonsense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

I think he makes a pretty powerful indictment of the way Madeleine's case was conducted and obviously as a Detective Superintendent had more than clue what he was talking about something Amaral could never be accused of.

The world and his wife had opinions about how the investigation was conducted, despite it being outwith their areas of expertise or responsibility. None of the British police officers had the right to advise the PJ except Mark Harrison and Martin Grime, whose input was requested.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 13, 2020, 01:13:16 PM
Have you a cite for that please?

I doubt it,Rowley pointed out the didn't, saying it was dealt with in the initial investigation,you know the one led by Amaral,whose integrity is called into question, yet its a ringing endorsement by SY, now did he get it right  and thats why they can't pin the tail on any old donkey.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2020, 01:30:53 PM

He was on the ground and had a professional opinion of his experience.  Which was borne out by the back to front way Amaral conducted the case ...
Snip
Dr Hill said that had Portuguese detectives been more willing to discuss the case ‘I would have told them the first people they needed to eliminate from the investigation is the parents or a relative’. He added: ‘For the Portuguese to make them suspects months later was complete nonsense.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

I think he makes a pretty powerful indictment of the way Madeleine's case was conducted and obviously as a Detective Superintendent had more than clue what he was talking about something Amaral could never be accused of.

I very much doubt they ruled anybody out at the start with no evidence of a break-in.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 01:31:27 PM
Which sightings of Maddie?

Starting with the Tanner sighting ... there are quite a few ... then you know that already don't you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 01:32:48 PM
From 2007-2011 he was Head of Behaviour Analysis, Child Exploitation Online Protection centre (CEOP). His job was to advise on the behaviour of child sex abusers. Before that he was a Surrey police officer.

In the article he seems to be suggesting he had a wider role and a wealth of knowledge on search procedures and interview techniques. I expect he had knowledge, but no more than any other senior detective.

At the time he had no expertise which entitled him to interfere in or judge the PJ's investigation imo.

Absolutely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 13, 2020, 01:33:40 PM
Starting with the Tanner sighting ... there are quite a few ... then you know that already don't you.

The Tanner sighting is not thought to have been Madeleine by OG.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2020, 01:40:49 PM
The world and his wife had opinions about how the investigation was conducted, despite it being outwith their areas of expertise or responsibility. None of the British police officers had the right to advise the PJ except Mark Harrison and Martin Grime, whose input was requested.
Snip
Detective Superintendent Hill – who had secured the world’s first conviction based on familial DNA – could have helped while the evidence was still fresh. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

Found there was no problem with his offer of using his expertise when the Judicial police had Robert Murat in their sights.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 02:39:04 PM
Snip
Detective Superintendent Hill – who had secured the world’s first conviction based on familial DNA – could have helped while the evidence was still fresh. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416013/Bungling-local-Madeleine-McCann-officers-froze-says-UK-detective.html

Found there wan no problem with his offer of using his expertise when the Judicial police had Robert Murat in their sights.

To produce a profile of him. I don't think he was asked to do so by the PJ; the first mention of Murat was made by a British journalist to Leicestershire Police on 6th May. Then an anonymous tip off was received by the PJ on 11th May.
Immediately the PJ started to gather information about him.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 13, 2020, 03:07:22 PM
From 2007-2011 he was Head of Behaviour Analysis, Child Exploitation Online Protection centre (CEOP). His job was to advise on the behaviour of child sex abusers. Before that he was a Surrey police officer.

In the article he seems to be suggesting he had a wider role and a wealth of knowledge on search procedures and interview techniques. I expect he had knowledge, but no more than any other senior detective.

At the time he had no expertise which entitled him to interfere in or judge the PJ's investigation imo.
He sounds eminently qualified to offer advice re: a missing child to a police force out of its depth imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2020, 03:42:18 PM
He sounds eminently qualified to offer advice re: a missing child to a police force out of its depth imo.

He has proven himself NOT to be an expert on this case. He claims the apartment was locked, 16 friends, 8 couples? He needs a lot of help! You cannot clear any theory with no evidence of a break-in. He thought it was locked and there was evidence of a break-in because he is ignorant!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 13, 2020, 03:49:13 PM
He has proven himself NOT to be an expert on this case. He claims the apartment was locked, 16 friends, 8 couples? He needs a lot of help! You cannot clear any theory with no evidence of a break-in. He thought it was locked and there was evidence of a break-in because he is ignorant!
He wasn’t offering advice on the number of couples or whether the door was locked or not, I expect he credited the PJ with enough knowledge to be able to work out the basics, he was offering more specialised advice concerning behaviour analysis and child exploitation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2020, 03:59:37 PM
Maybe he should have found this German being in CEOP as they were supposed to be looking for possible child abuse suspects in the area? They concentrated on Murat and missed him too!  A nanny claims the PJ showed the German's photo only days after the disappearance so they were investigating him as a possible suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 13, 2020, 04:04:03 PM
Maybe he should have found this German being in CEOP as they were supposed to be looking for possible child abuse suspects in the area? They concentrated on Murat and missed him too!  A nanny claims the PJ showed the German's photo only days after the disappearance so they were investigating him as a possible suspect.
I wasn’t aware that UK police were allowed to conduct their own separate investigations on PT soil in 2007...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 07:55:04 PM
Starting with the Tanner sighting ... there are quite a few ... then you know that already don't you.

No... Tannerman has been accounted for apparently. That only leaves Smithman for a possible sighting of MM on the day she was reported missing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 13, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
He wasn’t offering advice on the number of couples or whether the door was locked or not, I expect he credited the PJ with enough knowledge to be able to work out the basics, he was offering more specialised advice concerning behaviour analysis and child exploitation.

He was just another uninvited, unneeded foreign policeman who thought he knew better than the PJ. He wasn't there to tell them how to do their jobs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 13, 2020, 08:04:48 PM
No... Tannerman has been accounted for apparently. That only leaves Smithman for a possible sighting of MM on the day she was reported missing.
Dr Totman has been accounted for. What Jane Tanner witnessed may well be a man carrying Madeleine within that space of time. Totman would not have looked back and noticed that this person was behind him. My thinking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 13, 2020, 08:11:19 PM
Dr Totman has been accounted for. What Jane Tanner witnessed may well be a man carrying Madeleine within that space of time. Totman would not have looked back and noticed that this person was behind him. My thinking.

If I've got the direction of travel correct, they would be converging
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 13, 2020, 08:13:59 PM
Dr Totman has been accounted for. What Jane Tanner witnessed may well be a man carrying Madeleine within that space of time. Totman would not have looked back and noticed that this person was behind him. My thinking.

Redwood never mentioned who Tanner saw,but what can be determined is whoever Redwood found obviously never saw any thing suspicious,thats why the timeline moved onto to a person carrying a child whose description was close to that of Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2020, 08:25:59 PM
Dr Totman has been accounted for. What Jane Tanner witnessed may well be a man carrying Madeleine within that space of time. Totman would not have looked back and noticed that this person was behind him. My thinking.

Gerry and Jez must be blind to not notice all these people crossing the road @)(++(*

How Tannerman can morph from Murat to a hippy Beatle is a more interesting question.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 13, 2020, 08:50:57 PM
If I've got the direction of travel correct, they would be converging
Totman, apparently, was walking away from block 5. I still do not understand how he was going towards the night crèche at the time? How would he meet with someone, possibly with Madeleine, during that time? In my opinion, it is possible that whoever took Madeleine was aware of all the movements that night. Tanner could have been witnessing what she thought to be Madeleine carried by a man, a few steps behind Totman.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 13, 2020, 08:54:49 PM
He was just another uninvited, unneeded foreign policeman who thought he knew better than the PJ. He wasn't there to tell them how to do their jobs.
IMO, they obviously needed telling but wouldn’t be told.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 13, 2020, 08:58:20 PM
The Tanner sighting is not thought to have been Madeleine by OG.


and he looks nothing like the tanner photo fit either...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 13, 2020, 09:09:27 PM
Redwood never mentioned who Tanner saw,but what can be determined is whoever Redwood found obviously never saw any thing suspicious,thats why the timeline moved onto to a person carrying a child whose description was close to that of Madeleine McCann.


The time line has always been the  knot in the rope that no one can seem to undo.
IT is THE most important piece of information which really needs to be looked at and explained in detail.

The German suspect will have a savvy lawyer who will tear that apart in no time at all. He/She may insist on a reconstruction to prove his client had an alibi to cover certain times.

I am convinced and of the opinion the Tapas crew, being cowards, were Pretending to have half hour checks to save there necks.

MBM could have been murdered in the apartment by the German suspect and left there in a state, how would her parents explain this disaster  as Gerry Described it?

Phone the police and say their daughter had been raped and murdered while they were having dinner with free drinks?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 09:41:54 PM
That is not true

It is according to BMJ research.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 10:03:01 PM
Totman, apparently, was walking away from block 5. I still do not understand how he was going towards the night crèche at the time? How would he meet with someone, possibly with Madeleine, during that time? In my opinion, it is possible that whoever took Madeleine was aware of all the movements that night. Tanner could have been witnessing what she thought to be Madeleine carried by a man, a few steps behind Totman.

Is that a serious suggestion? That two men of similar description were carrying a young girl in pyjamas in the same manner and one "a few steps behind" the other!!!  &%%6
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2020, 10:20:21 PM
It is according to BMJ research.

could you tell me where in the BMJ reserach it says if Maddie is dead its most likely involves her family or friends...thats absolute BS....You dont understand the application of statistics
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2020, 10:26:19 PM
Is that a serious suggestion? That two men of similar description were carrying a young girl in pyjamas in the same manner and one "a few steps behind" the other!!!  &%%6

i remeber posting to sil if he wanted to do something useful he should pop into Luz one night and see how many men he saw carrying a child between 9 and 10 oclock. i still think that would have been a useful exercise
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 10:33:47 PM
could you tell me where in the BMJ reserach it says if Maddie is dead its most likely involves her family or friends...thats absolute BS....You dont understand the application of statistics

Go back and read my post. It was a generalisation. Statistically parents or close family are the most likely ones involved with child homicide or kidnap. I didn't then claim that as evidence in this case. You've created a straw man. I quoted the BMJ research to say any investigation into a missing child should not, from the outset, rule out family involvement.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2020, 10:39:12 PM
Go back and read my post. It was a generalisation. Statistically parents or close family are the most likely ones involved with child homicide or kidnap. I didn't then claim that as evidence in this case. You've created a straw man. I quoted the BMJ research to say any investigation into a missing child should not, from the outset, rule out family involvement.

of course it should I totally agree. ...and the McCanns have been ruled out.

so what is the probability in your opinion taht the McCanns are involved in  a death and cover up...simple question..but you don't have an answer
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 10:40:42 PM
of course it should I totally agree. ...and the McCanns have been ruled out.

so what is the probability in your opinion taht the McCanns are involved in  a death and cover up...simple question..but you don't have an answer

Who ruled them out? I asked you for a cite some time ago now. Thanks Dave.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2020, 10:43:19 PM
Who ruled them out? I asked you for a cite some time ago now. Thanks Dave.

SY....so what is the probablity of the mcanns being involved ..in your opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 13, 2020, 10:50:09 PM
SY....so what is the probablity of the mcanns being involved ..in your opinion

Please provide a link with some context. On what basis do SY say this? Thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 13, 2020, 11:01:07 PM
Please provide a link with some context. On what basis do SY say this? Thanks.

Simon Foy...Redwood...Rowley...im sure you are aware of what they all said but you don't accept it. Believe whay you want..its of no real importance
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 12:35:12 AM
Simon Foy...Redwood...Rowley...im sure you are aware of what they all said but you don't accept it. Believe whay you want..its of no real importance

I'm genuinely not aware of how SY investigated parental involvement and why they ruled it out. I've read here on this forum that they stated the PJ investigated it so they didn't need to. Hopefully you can show their investigation was far more thorough?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 12:42:03 AM
I'm genuinely not aware of how SY investigated parental involvement and why they ruled it out. I've read here on this forum that they stated the PJ investigated it so they didn't need to. Hopefully you can show their investigation was far more thorough?

Then unfortunately your hopes are going to be dashed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 12:48:20 AM
The topic is ... Goncalo Amaral  Thank you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 08:45:57 AM
The topic is ... Goncalo Amaral  Thank you

Well to get back on topic it very much looks to me that Amaral had not ruled out parental involvement from early in the investigation, but as you pointed out elsewhere the UK Police were briefing civil servants on their complete assurance that this was a case of "rare stranger abduction" (quote from CM, January 2008). IMO Amaral is acting professionally and our own Police are seen to act in a prejudicial manner from the outset, imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 09:07:12 AM
Well to get back on topic it very much looks to me that Amaral had not ruled out parental involvement from early in the investigation, but as you pointed out elsewhere the UK Police were briefing civil servants on their complete assurance that this was a case of "rare stranger abduction" (quote from CM, January 2008). IMO Amaral is acting professionally and our own Police are seen to act in a prejudicial manner from the outset, imo.

The Portuguese didn't share your opinion of Amaral's 'professionalism' when they sacked him from Madeleine's case then gave him a fine and a suspended prison sentence when they found him guilty of perjury.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 14, 2020, 09:12:23 AM
Well to get back on topic it very much looks to me that Amaral had not ruled out parental involvement from early in the investigation, but as you pointed out elsewhere the UK Police were briefing civil servants on their complete assurance that this was a case of "rare stranger abduction" (quote from CM, January 2008). IMO Amaral is acting professionally and our own Police are seen to act in a prejudicial manner from the outset, imo.
Amaral’s profession is a TV talking head an author of a very flawed book, in what way is he acting professionally?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 09:28:42 AM
The Portuguese didn't share your opinion of Amaral's 'professionalism' when they sacked him from Madeleine's case then gave him a fine and a suspended prison sentence when they found him guilty of perjury.

Just to qualify what I meant. Amaral was acting professionally in the MM case specifically when (unlike the UK Police and CEOP) he did not rule out parental responsibility in May 2007.

The perjury conviction wasn't in relation to the MM case as far as I know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 09:41:49 AM
Just to qualify what I meant. Amaral was acting professionally in the MM case specifically when (unlike the UK Police and CEOP) he did not rule out parental responsibility in May 2007.

The perjury conviction wasn't in relation to the MM case as far as I know.

It was related to The Case of another Missing Child in proximity to Praia Da Luz.

Amaral should never have Coordinated The McCann Case.  That wasn't very professional either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 10:50:52 AM
It was related to The Case of another Missing Child in proximity to Praia Da Luz.

Amaral should never have Coordinated The McCann Case.  That wasn't very professional either.

That's a fair point. But if he's given the case to investigate then he still needs to act professionally..... and perjury in one case doesn't mean we can safely transfer that to every case he works on. If that was the case he should have been sacked. However, that said I don't have much faith in the Police in either country (or Germany!!)

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 11:14:29 AM
That's a fair point. But if he's given the case to investigate then he still needs to act professionally..... and perjury in one case doesn't mean we can safely transfer that to every case he works on. If that was the case he should have been sacked. However, that said I don't have much faith in the Police in either country (or Germany!!)

Amaral volunteered, despite being due to go on holiday the next day.  Sofia Leal was none too pleased about that.

PS.  Amaral was sacked.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 11:31:55 AM
Amaral volunteered, despite being due to go on holiday the next day.  Sofia Leal was none too pleased about that.

PS.  Amaral was sacked.

Sacked after the perjury case I mean so he couldn't volunteer for this one.... plus his superior doesn't need to take him up on his offer to investigate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 11:46:15 AM
Sacked after the perjury case I mean so he couldn't volunteer for this one.... plus his superior doesn't need to take him up on his offer to investigate.

Exactly.  Lack of professionalism all round.  The whole Investigation was a mess from start to finish.  Mainly due to Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 14, 2020, 12:30:46 PM

and he looks nothing like the tanner photo fit either...

April 2007: He [Brückner] moves out of a farmhouse and into a campervan now linked to the crime. The farmhouse is cleaned and a bag of wigs and 'exotic clothes' is found.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8394855/Christian-Brueckner-linked-FOURTH-unsolved-case.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 14, 2020, 12:38:30 PM
April 2007: He [Brückner] moves out of a farmhouse and into a campervan now linked to the crime. The farmhouse is cleaned and a bag of wigs and 'exotic clothes' is found.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8394855/Christian-Brueckner-linked-FOURTH-unsolved-case.html

Is that supposed to be incriminating ?

He had girlfriends - maybe they liked to indulge in a little dressing up  8(0(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 12:51:55 PM
Sacked after the perjury case I mean so he couldn't volunteer for this one.... plus his superior doesn't need to take him up on his offer to investigate.

I think you need to read up on the timeline of this case. Amaral had retired from the PJ long before the Cipriano case came to court and he wasn’t sacked, he was taken off of the case. It’s a subtle but important difference.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Is that supposed to be incriminating ?

He had girlfriends - maybe they liked to indulge in a little dressing up  8(0(*

A close cropped blonde man could look entirely different if wearing a dark wig or even one with dreadlocks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 14, 2020, 01:18:00 PM
A close cropped blonde man could look entirely different if wearing a dark wig or even one with dreadlocks.

Of course, but it's all speculation with no substance
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 01:45:39 PM
A close cropped blonde man could look entirely different if wearing a dark wig or even one with dreadlocks.

Or wearing stacked shoes, or makeup made to look like a horrendous scar or....or....or.......but there’s no evidence of any of them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 01:48:11 PM
Of course, but it's all speculation with no substance

No it is not speculation.  Unless you think a man with a close cropped blonde head would look exactly the same when wearing a dark coloured wig.
I know he would look different particularly in a poor light.  The effect could be quite startling if the blonde was deeply tanned.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 01:56:55 PM
No it is not speculation.  Unless you think a man with a close cropped blonde head would look exactly the same when wearing a dark coloured wig.
I know he would look different particularly in a poor light.  The effect could be quite startling if the blonde was deeply tanned.

Is there an evidence that that happened ? If not it’s speculation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 14, 2020, 04:45:12 PM
Exactly.  Lack of professionalism all round.  The whole Investigation was a mess from start to finish.  Mainly due to Amaral.

But the UK response was also totally flawed from the outset as revealed by CM and his "private briefings" of May 2007. Just blaming Amaral when the UK Police and CEOP had a flawed approach, imo, is unfair.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 04:52:04 PM
But the UK response was also totally flawed from the outset as revealed by CM and his "private briefings" of May 2007. Just blaming Amaral when the UK Police and CEOP had a flawed approach, imo, is unfair.

It wasn't The UKs Case.  As we have been repeatedly reminded.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 14, 2020, 04:59:45 PM
It wasn't The UKs Case.  As we have been repeatedly reminded.

Then the UK shouldn't have interfered, acting like a colonial power.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/01/british-police-competition-harmed-madeleine-mccann-investigation-home-office-report
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 05:07:19 PM
Then the UK shouldn't have interfered, acting like a colonial power.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/01/british-police-competition-harmed-madeleine-mccann-investigation-home-office-report

A British Child Missing Abroad.  Her Passport alone gives her the right.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 14, 2020, 05:21:39 PM
Is that supposed to be incriminating ?

He had girlfriends - maybe they liked to indulge in a little dressing up  8(0(*

It said the wigs were found in April 2007 after he moved out which is prior to the disappearance. 

Smithman wasn't wearing a wig unless he is bald  8(0(*

Latest: He wore a Wig! Police seek Kojak being the Abductor of Maddie!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 14, 2020, 05:39:42 PM
Amaral volunteered, despite being due to go on holiday the next day.  Sofia Leal was none too pleased about that.

PS.  Amaral was sacked.

Going on holiday the next day … and Amaral volunteered ?   That doesn't make sense
What was it about the case that made Amaral so keen to direct it?

He was a drugs trafficking cop, wasn't he ?
Why would he so want to run another missing child/abducted child case?
After all, he got a criminal record because of his perjury in the Joana Cipriano case.

 *%6^
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 05:55:58 PM
Going on holiday the next day … and Amaral volunteered ?   That doesn't make sense
What was it about the case that made Amaral so keen to direct it?

He was a drugs trafficking cop, wasn't he ?
Why would he so want to run another missing child/abducted child case?
After all, he got a criminal record because of his perjury in the Joana Cipriano case.

 *%6^

He thought it would get him out of trouble if he could prove that Kate done it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 14, 2020, 05:58:44 PM
He thought it would get him out of trouble if he could prove that Kate done it.

 $65*

Nothing more that you can think of ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 06:46:19 PM
Going on holiday the next day … and Amaral volunteered ?   That doesn't make sense
What was it about the case that made Amaral so keen to direct it?

He was a drugs trafficking cop, wasn't he ?
Why would he so want to run another missing child/abducted child case?
After all, he got a criminal record because of his perjury in the Joana Cipriano case.

 *%6^

Yeah but he was only made an arguido for what resulted in his criminal record on the 4th May although he must have known that was going to happen and what the likely outcome would be.

I think he saw an opportunity to circumvent that chain of events by becoming the great detective who having nailed another murdering mother would be bombproof re the perjury charge.

Kate McCann couldn't be tortured into confessing as Leonor Cipriano was and the fact Kate didn't play ball and prevented him having another notch on his gun plus a clean record would account for the pathological hatred which I think inspired him to write his hate filled book about her.

That is only one explanation ... I think there could well be others or a combination of others.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2020, 06:56:10 PM
Yeah but he was only made an arguido for what resulted in his criminal record on the 4th May although he must have known that was going to happen and what the likely outcome would be.

I think he saw an opportunity to circumvent that chain of events by becoming the great detective who having nailed another murdering mother would be bombproof re the perjury charge.

Kate McCann couldn't be tortured into confessing as Leonor Cipriano was and the fact Kate didn't play ball and prevented him having another notch on his gun plus a clean record would account for the pathological hatred which I think inspired him to write his hate filled book about her.

That is only one explanation ... I think there could well be others or a combination of others.

Did he not threaten to abduct his girlfriend's child in that Phone Call, after she dumped him?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 14, 2020, 06:59:00 PM
Yeah but he was only made an arguido for what resulted in his criminal record on the 4th May although he must have known that was going to happen and what the likely outcome would be.

I think he saw an opportunity to circumvent that chain of events by becoming the great detective who having nailed another murdering mother would be bombproof re the perjury charge.

Kate McCann couldn't be tortured into confessing as Leonor Cipriano was and the fact Kate didn't play ball and prevented him having another notch on his gun plus a clean record would account for the pathological hatred which I think inspired him to write his hate filled book about her.

That is only one explanation ... I think there could well be others or a combination of others.

Wow, what a hate-filled post based on opinion IMO.B

GA has never come across to me as hating either g or kmcc quite the opposite.

Perhaps he was a dedicated cop taking on the case - as he came across wanting only the truth

Supprised you said another murdering mother - I didn't realize you thought  LC was guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 14, 2020, 07:06:31 PM
Wow, what a hate-filled post based on opinion IMO.B

GA has never come across to me as hating either g or kmcc quite the opposite.

Perhaps he was a dedicated cop taking on the case - as he came across wanting only the truth

Supprised you said another murdering mother - I didn't realize you thought  LC was guilty
The opposite of hate is love.  You think Amaral loved the McCanns?  That’s a novel opinion!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 14, 2020, 07:21:53 PM
The opposite of hate is love.  You think Amaral loved the McCanns?  That’s a novel opinion!

It was B who mentioned hate, not me.

Don't they say though there is a very thin line between love and hate  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 07:25:10 PM
I will never understand the visceral hatred displayed towards Amaral by supporters. It really is quite bizarre.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 07:26:37 PM
It was B who mentioned hate, not me.

Don't they say though there is a very thin line between love and hate  @)(++(*

When you are simply doing your job personal feelings don’t come into it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 14, 2020, 07:28:28 PM
It was B who mentioned hate, not me.

Don't they say though there is a very thin line between love and hate  @)(++(*
It was you who said that Amaral didn’t hate the McCanns but quite the reverse.  So what did you mean exactly? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 14, 2020, 10:44:17 PM
Did he not threaten to abduct his girlfriend's child in that Phone Call, after she dumped him?
I believe he did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 14, 2020, 11:19:49 PM
I believe he did.

‘I know you will have a source for that or else you would not have posted it; please share with the forum.’ Brietta

I’d be obliged if you’d hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold others and provide a source for your claim.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 01:33:03 AM
‘I know you will have a source for that or else you would not have posted it; please share with the forum.’ Brietta

I’d be obliged if you’d hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold others and provide a source for your claim.

Bumped just in case Brietta hadn’t noticed my post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 15, 2020, 02:27:44 AM

Did he not threaten to abduct his girlfriend's child in that Phone Call, after she dumped him?

I believe he did.

I remember it too; it was a long time ago. 

Didn't Amaral also  threaten her husband/ partner with a Golden Bullet?  I have got the right man, haven't I ?   They were clients of Lawyer Marcos Aragao Corriera IIRC


Can't find anything on the internet anymore.
Maybe its in the "Way back machine" ?  Or maybe someone has vanished it to protect Amaral?



Of course Marcos Correia himself was threatened by someone.   He found the shells of empty bullets on his first floor balcony.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 15, 2020, 03:04:06 AM
‘I know you will have a source for that or else you would not have posted it; please share with the forum.’ Brietta

I’d be obliged if you’d hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold others and provide a source for your claim.

You can google "Ana Bras e Goncalo Amaral" for some links.
I am unable to find links to any denials of the accusations against Amaral by either him or his associates; nor can I find details of any libel proceedings issued by against anyone relating to these accusations. Perhaps you can?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 15, 2020, 07:28:58 AM
In any case no cites required for a statement of belief.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 15, 2020, 11:34:42 AM
It was you who said that Amaral didn’t hate the McCanns but quite the reverse.  So what did you mean exactly?

Well, obviously I believe he didn't hate them - what more can I say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 11:59:15 AM
You can google "Ana Bras e Goncalo Amaral" for some links.
I am unable to find links to any denials of the accusations against Amaral by either him or his associates; nor can I find details of any libel proceedings issued by against anyone relating to these accusations. Perhaps you can?

Pardon ?

I can’t find  links to any denials by David Payne or any of his associates to the rumours surrounding him or indeed any libel proceedings relating to those accusations. Does that mean that they’re true ?

It is forum etiquette that when you make a claim you substantiate that claim with evidence, especially such a heinous accusation .....Brietta herself is quite strict on that. It is not for the reader find the evidence.

So again, Brietta could you please substantiate your claim re: Amaral or withdraw it ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:02:51 PM
Pardon ?

I can’t find  links to any denials by David Payne or any of his associates to the rumours surrounding him or indeed any libel proceedings relating to those accusations. Does that mean that they’re true ?

It is forum etiquette that when you make a claim you substantiate that claim with evidence, especially such a heinous accusation .....Brietta herself is quite strict on that. It is not for the reader find the evidence.

So again, Brietta could you please substantiate your claim re: Amaral or withdraw it ?

You mean you never saw or read the transcript of the infamous phone call?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 12:06:47 PM
You mean you never saw or read the transcript of the infamous phone call?

No, not that I remember.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:13:20 PM
No, not that I remember.

Oh well, never mind.  It can't have happened then.  Or reports of Sofia dumping Goncalo's clothes in his nearest drinking den.  And then having dinner with the girlfriend's husband.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 12:16:00 PM
Oh well, never mind.  It can't have happened then.  Or reports of Sofia dumping Goncalo's clothes in his nearest drinking den.  And then having dinner with the girlfriend's husband.

I’m not really interested in Amaral’s personal life. I’m interested in Brietta substantiating her claim, just as she asks others to do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:20:34 PM
I’m not really interested in Amaral’s personal life. I’m interested in Brietta substantiating her claim, just as she asks others to do.

Who often don't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 12:24:43 PM
Who often don't.

And ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 15, 2020, 12:32:10 PM
Moderators should lead by example - IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:32:54 PM
And ?

What was it that Brietta didn't provide a Cite for this time?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 12:36:56 PM
What was it that Brietta didn't provide a Cite for this time?

You already know so not sure why you’re asking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:41:54 PM
You already know so not sure why you’re asking.

Ah Yes.  Brietta said, "I believe he did."  This is an Opinion.

I was the one who brought up the subject, to which I added a Question Mark.

But since no one wants to believe this, having seen neither sight nor sound, then what is the problem?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 12:47:33 PM
Ah Yes.  Brietta said, "I believe he did."  This is an Opinion.

I was the one who brought up the subject, to which I added a Question Mark.

But since no one wants to believe this, having seen neither sight nor sound, then what is the problem?

The problem is you and Brietta made an accusation with no substantive evidence.....but hey, if that’s the way the forum works now no problem.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 12:52:16 PM
The problem is you and Brietta made an accusation with no substantive evidence.....but hey, if that’s the way the forum works now no problem.

Misty provided the means to a Cite.  And it did happen.  But God forbid that Amaral threatened to abduct a child.  That might raise a few worries.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 15, 2020, 01:00:20 PM
Misty provided the means to a Cite.  And it did happen.  But God forbid that Amaral threatened to abduct a child.  That might raise a few worries.

Yes, I wonder why the police aren't suspecting Amaral of abducting Maddie & all those assaults on white british girls.

Amaral has dark hair, a tan & a pot belly, a bit like Christian Brueckner hasn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 15, 2020, 01:02:51 PM
Misty provided the means to a Cite.  And it did happen.  But God forbid that Amaral threatened to abduct a child.  That might raise a few worries.

The cite should have been produced.

TBH Eleanor most of the time this sort of forum minutiae doesn’t bother me but when a moderator time and again only asks members who are sceptical of the parent’s narrative for cites, and often in a rude manner, then it is only fair that they hold themselves to the same standard.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 15, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
Yes, I wonder why the police aren't suspecting Amaral of abducting Maddie & all those assaults on white british girls.

Amaral has dark hair, a tan & a pot belly, a bit like Christian Brueckner hasn't.

You said it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 15, 2020, 01:09:50 PM
You said it.

How very observant of you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 17, 2020, 12:07:48 AM
I remember it too; it was a long time ago. 

Didn't Amaral also  threaten her husband/ partner with a Golden Bullet?  I have got the right man, haven't I ?   They were clients of Lawyer Marcos Aragao Corriera IIRC


Can't find anything on the internet anymore.
Maybe its in the "Way back machine" ?  Or maybe someone has vanished it to protect Amaral?



Of course Marcos Correia himself was threatened by someone.   He found the shells of empty bullets on his first floor balcony.

We don't actually know who threw those shells on to the balcony of Correias first floor flat, but Amaral was at loggerheads with Marcos, who had succeeded in Court in getting Amaral sentenced for Perjury.   18 months wasn't it?

Furthermore Marcos Correia beat Amaral in another Court when Amaral tried to sue him.  My bet is that Amaral must have hated Marcos, but I realise that doesn't mean that Amaral threw the shells onto Marcoses balcony, does it?


Then Amaral (a senior Police Officer) stood by and watched as his friends tried to beat Marcos up after/during Amarals big birthday bash.  Marcos, a tall and very well built man, was locked in the car enjoying the view (sunset?) over the harbour and Amarals mates  tried to pull him out thru the window.  Top cop Amaral just looked on and did nothing.  Marcos reported this to the Police, but it seems that he must have decided against proceeding

Wasn't that the birthday bash when Amaral started wearing a diamond earing?    %#&%%5
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 17, 2020, 12:11:34 AM
I’m not really interested in Amaral’s personal life. I’m interested in Brietta substantiating her claim, just as she asks others to do.

Eleanor and I have substantiated it.  It was common knowledge, but like everything else it probably has been wiped from the internet, IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 12:18:40 AM
Eleanor and I have substantiated it.  It was common knowledge, but like everything else it probably has been wiped from the internet, IMO

Without evidence it has not been substantiated. Those are the forum rules.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 17, 2020, 01:12:37 AM
Without evidence it has not been substantiated. Those are the forum rules.

Now Faith, with the best will in the world, since when have you been a slave to forum rules?

I think there are enough people who will substantiate it personally, if needed.  Everybody on the supporters side saw it and there was quite a bit of discussion over it.

And didn't Misty substantiate it anyhow?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 01:28:46 AM
Now Faith, with the best will in the world, since when have you been a slave to forum rules?

I think there are enough people who will substantiate it personally, if needed.  Everybody on the supporters side saw it and there was quite a bit of discussion over it.

And didn't Misty substantiate it anyhow?

You are right Sadie I’m not a slave to forum rules but the moderator who jointly claimed the event occurred is....and she should at least hold herself to the same standard as she holds other members.

And no misty didn’t substantiate it, she basically said google it.

Until  a link is posted the claim is simply that, a claim with no substance. TBH with so many supporters seeing it I’m surprised not one of you has a link.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 17, 2020, 02:39:40 AM
You are right Sadie I’m not a slave to forum rules but the moderator who jointly claimed the event occurred is....and she should at least hold herself to the same standard as she holds other members.

And no misty didn’t substantiate it, she basically said google it.

Until  a link is posted the claim is simply that, a claim with no substance. TBH with so many supporters seeing it I’m surprised not one of you has a link.

Well this is probably the reason that Brietta is having problems substantiating it.  From our very own forum, seven years ago by the amazing poster DCI.  Thread = MORALS


Re: MORALS

« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2013, 05:59:41 PM »





Quote from: stephen25000 on September 15, 2013, 05:42:22 PM

Quote
Yet again, your magical mystery abduction with no proof 8((()*/

DCI
Quote
'One of them, yes. Sofia was also knocking her husband off. I take it you haven't heard about the golden bullet, Amaral threatened to put between this mans eyes? Or Sofia throwing his clothes in a bar doorway, where the manager asked him to leave?'





Scandal of Summer - wife of Gonçalo who she said she Loved! (former.inspector of PJ) it put his suitcases at the door !

Dates Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:54:25 +0100

Due to the fact that Mr. Gonçalo Amaral (disgraced former inspector of the PJ of Portimão) arrived at his house, several times, late at night and in the early hours of the morning, his wife («known as the best fellatio of Faro») suspected that he had an affair with another woman, because he came home reeking of another woman's perfume. Sofia, Amaral's wife, packed all his clothes and shoes up and threw them in the door of a cafe', along with a letter she had written, explaining the worse things about her husband, for everybody who wanted to read it.

Sofia was still not satisfied with that, the following night, in the absence of her husband Goncalo, she went to have dinner in a well known restaurant in Portimão, with the husband of the woman she believed had an affair with her husband. After dinner, the two "lovers" went for the night to the Praia da Rocha, hand in hand, kissing and showing a fondness and a very strong intimacy for each other, but, because she was still not satisfied with that, she took that gentleman back to her house, the marital home, in the late hours of the night.

It was the biggest scandal of so well-known public figures among residents in Portimão. But this history does not end here. From that day 2 months ago, the couple (Gonçalo Amaral and his wife) do not rest, their relationship is in turmoil and at an all time low, their marriage is under great strain.

They reached the point that Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, inside a well-known bar at Praia da Rocha,got up approximately 4 times from his table and approached the table of the other couple. Goncalo Amaral, made several threats to the man that went out with his wife Sofia, and 3 or 4 times he violently put his hands around the neck of the same man, insulting the couple numerous times, kicking and punching, until Mr. Gonçalo Amaral was finally asked to leave, by the persons present in the bar who were there to have fun, not to see violent discussions, insults, threats and beatings, just because Mr. Gonçalo Amaral and his wife decided to do a big scandal and scene at the place.

It was a shame! How is it possible that so well-educated people, supposedly with "distinction" and an high professional status, behave in such a derogatory fashion and become embroiled in these kind of scandals! And they cannot leave each others husbands and wives alone... Still have more to come!!.

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t1796-oh-dear-gonc-has-been-caught-at-it-again-or-gonc-in-public-brawl-after-husband-of-lover-kos-him-in-bar

This is the one Joanna Morais tried to get removed, but then had to admit it was true.

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t2106-amarals-been-a-naughty-boy-again[/size]

It seems that the reason that Brietta can no longer find her cite is because neither of the above two websites opens any more.  It seems that sadly the forum has now gone.

I believe that this is probably where we all saw it, but there may be other places.


Maybe it could be picked up on the Wayback Machine.  Dunno.

Rest assured Faith, all the things mentioned in the past couple of pages, or so, of this thread, were well reported and discussed at the time.  About 13 years ago.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 05:18:26 AM
Well this is probably the reason that Brietta is having problems substantiating it.  From our very own forum, seven years ago by the amazing poster DCI.  Thread = MORALS


Re: MORALS

« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2013, 05:59:41 PM »





Quote from: stephen25000 on September 15, 2013, 05:42:22 PM

DCI
Quote
'One of them, yes. Sofia was also knocking her husband off. I take it you haven't heard about the golden bullet, Amaral threatened to put between this mans eyes? Or Sofia throwing his clothes in a bar doorway, where the manager asked him to leave?'





Scandal of Summer - wife of Gonçalo who she said she Loved! (former.inspector of PJ) it put his suitcases at the door !

Dates Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:54:25 +0100

Due to the fact that Mr. Gonçalo Amaral (disgraced former inspector of the PJ of Portimão) arrived at his house, several times, late at night and in the early hours of the morning, his wife («known as the best fellatio of Faro») suspected that he had an affair with another woman, because he came home reeking of another woman's perfume. Sofia, Amaral's wife, packed all his clothes and shoes up and threw them in the door of a cafe', along with a letter she had written, explaining the worse things about her husband, for everybody who wanted to read it.

Sofia was still not satisfied with that, the following night, in the absence of her husband Goncalo, she went to have dinner in a well known restaurant in Portimão, with the husband of the woman she believed had an affair with her husband. After dinner, the two "lovers" went for the night to the Praia da Rocha, hand in hand, kissing and showing a fondness and a very strong intimacy for each other, but, because she was still not satisfied with that, she took that gentleman back to her house, the marital home, in the late hours of the night.

It was the biggest scandal of so well-known public figures among residents in Portimão. But this history does not end here. From that day 2 months ago, the couple (Gonçalo Amaral and his wife) do not rest, their relationship is in turmoil and at an all time low, their marriage is under great strain.

They reached the point that Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, inside a well-known bar at Praia da Rocha,got up approximately 4 times from his table and approached the table of the other couple. Goncalo Amaral, made several threats to the man that went out with his wife Sofia, and 3 or 4 times he violently put his hands around the neck of the same man, insulting the couple numerous times, kicking and punching, until Mr. Gonçalo Amaral was finally asked to leave, by the persons present in the bar who were there to have fun, not to see violent discussions, insults, threats and beatings, just because Mr. Gonçalo Amaral and his wife decided to do a big scandal and scene at the place.

It was a shame! How is it possible that so well-educated people, supposedly with "distinction" and an high professional status, behave in such a derogatory fashion and become embroiled in these kind of scandals! And they cannot leave each others husbands and wives alone... Still have more to come!!.

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t1796-oh-dear-gonc-has-been-caught-at-it-again-or-gonc-in-public-brawl-after-husband-of-lover-kos-him-in-bar

This is the one Joanna Morais tried to get removed, but then had to admit it was true.

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t2106-amarals-been-a-naughty-boy-again[/size]

It seems that the reason that Brietta can no longer find her cite is because neither of the above two websites opens any more.  It seems that sadly the forum has now gone.

I believe that this is probably where we all saw it, but there may be other places.


Maybe it could be picked up on the Wayback Machine.  Dunno.

Rest assured Faith, all the things mentioned in the past couple of pages, or so, of this thread, were well reported and discussed at the time.  About 13 years ago.

The fact is, no substantiation or cite was required for a sentence beginning, "I believe ..."

I think Faith is just attention seeking because I have not been responding to her posts and have no intention of doing so. 
At one time there was a lot on the internet about the "Golden Bullet" tape.  With no less an Amaral apologist than Morais substantiating the existence and content of the audio tape in her efforts to suppress it. DCI confirms that in her post.  I'm sure there must be screen grabs in existence because I think her stout defence will have been sanitised from her blog just as the tape and transcript has been from many internet sources.
And no ... I do not have a cite for that which is no longer there.

Steel Magnolia was kind enough to protest about it and record a heavily edited version to criticise it.  So although it may no longer be linked to we have two critical sources indicating it was there at one time.
Snip
Dr Amaral embarked on a vindictive vendetta against the couple, including harassing, threatening and menacing telephone calls.

The couple installed a recorder to capture Amaral's diatribes. There was no entrapment here, The couple did not invite Amaral to phone them, but they had the equipment to record his vituperative outpourings in the event that he did. At least one call was captured on tape.

In this phone call, as his justification for his affair with the other man's wife, Dr Amaral used all the base terms of promiscuity, moral vices and misogyny to describe Ms Bras, and threatened Mr Arauja with a 'golden bullet'.
http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com/2011/06/libel-from-blog-promoted-by-mccanns-on.html

Morais and Steel Magnolia confirm is that there is a tape and there used to be a link to it and it could be listened to - but no longer - on the internet.
Some of it said ... "What Amaral also says towards Ana is: "Eu faço-te a folha quando eu quiser", in English, "I sign your papers when I wish".
In Portugal, "fazer a folha" means to harm someone by illegal methods.
This phrase on tape may very well be used as proof that Goncalo Amaral's authenticity of the allegations towards Ana and her husband that Amaral has also threatened them, with planting drugs in their car, in order to send them to jail.
Apparently this is a good example of "fazer a folha" to someone.
They most of all fear that something bad will happen to their daughter, that she will be abducted or something else and that it would be made to look like they had been responsible for it.
People need to remember that this couple have had the strength and courage to report all of this to the PJ and the local police and to the Portuguese attorney general on several occasions and that they are literally living in fear of what Amaral may have done to them! The more people that know this, the less likely it is that anything will happen to them as it would be absolutely foolhardy to do this now, as we all know about the threats and intimidation and so do the Portuguese police and the Portuguese attorney general.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 08:23:44 AM

I think that about says it all on the subject of Amaral's threatening phone call.

Thanks to those who finally found the proof.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:03:40 AM
The fact is, no substantiation or cite was required for a sentence beginning, "I believe ..."

I think Faith is just attention seeking because I have not been responding to her posts and have no intention of doing so. 
At one time there was a lot on the internet about the "Golden Bullet" tape.  With no less an Amaral apologist than Morais substantiating the existence and content of the audio tape in her efforts to suppress it. DCI confirms that in her post.  I'm sure there must be screen grabs in existence because I think her stout defence will have been sanitised from her blog just as the tape and transcript has been from many internet sources.
And no ... I do not have a cite for that which is no longer there.

Steel Magnolia was kind enough to protest about it and record a heavily edited version to criticise it.  So although it may no longer be linked to we have two critical sources indicating it was there at one time.
Snip
Dr Amaral embarked on a vindictive vendetta against the couple, including harassing, threatening and menacing telephone calls.

The couple installed a recorder to capture Amaral's diatribes. There was no entrapment here, The couple did not invite Amaral to phone them, but they had the equipment to record his vituperative outpourings in the event that he did. At least one call was captured on tape.

In this phone call, as his justification for his affair with the other man's wife, Dr Amaral used all the base terms of promiscuity, moral vices and misogyny to describe Ms Bras, and threatened Mr Arauja with a 'golden bullet'.
http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com/2011/06/libel-from-blog-promoted-by-mccanns-on.html

Morais and Steel Magnolia confirm is that there is a tape and there used to be a link to it and it could be listened to - but no longer - on the internet.
Some of it said ... "What Amaral also says towards Ana is: "Eu faço-te a folha quando eu quiser", in English, "I sign your papers when I wish".
In Portugal, "fazer a folha" means to harm someone by illegal methods.
This phrase on tape may very well be used as proof that Goncalo Amaral's authenticity of the allegations towards Ana and her husband that Amaral has also threatened them, with planting drugs in their car, in order to send them to jail.
Apparently this is a good example of "fazer a folha" to someone.
They most of all fear that something bad will happen to their daughter, that she will be abducted or something else and that it would be made to look like they had been responsible for it.
People need to remember that this couple have had the strength and courage to report all of this to the PJ and the local police and to the Portuguese attorney general on several occasions and that they are literally living in fear of what Amaral may have done to them! The more people that know this, the less likely it is that anything will happen to them as it would be absolutely foolhardy to do this now, as we all know about the threats and intimidation and so do the Portuguese police and the Portuguese attorney general.

I am asking you to provide a cite because those are the rules, rules that you yourself deem to be important, nothing more. That you have failed to do so makes you a hypocrite.

As to the second hand hearsay you have posted as evidence, the couple concerned were clients of Correia who, at the time, was in a heated court case with Amaral so their testimony is hardly without bias.

Still you believe as you wish....just don’t expect the rest of us to be so gullible.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:05:24 AM
I think that about says it all on the subject of Amaral's threatening phone call.

Thanks to those who finally found the proof.

That’s not proof, it’s second hand gossip at best.

Still I suppose we believe what suits us.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2020, 10:14:22 AM
One of the forums who reported this with salacious glee is still there to be read. I don't see any cites, however.
https://justice4mccannfam.forumotion.com/t2614-large-amount-of-money-the-gnr-offier-and-goncalo-amaral
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 17, 2020, 10:24:39 AM
What an offensively coloured site. I lingered not  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 17, 2020, 10:26:35 AM
That’s not proof, it’s second hand gossip at best.

Still I suppose we believe what suits us.

Yeah but yeah,it disses dirt on Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 10:37:41 AM
One of the forums who reported this with salacious glee is still there to be read. I don't see any cites, however.
https://justice4mccannfam.forumotion.com/t2614-large-amount-of-money-the-gnr-offier-and-goncalo-amaral

I am Sabot on that Site.  In case anyone has forgotten.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 17, 2020, 10:38:51 AM
As if.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2020, 10:41:07 AM
I am Sabot on that Site.  In case anyone has forgotten.
.
I noticed one of Vee8's posts survived on there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:45:34 AM
.
I noticed one of Vee8's posts survived on there.

Ah Vee8, what an upstanding citizen he turned out to be and Rosiepops, who I think eventually defected via the Daily Record comments section.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 11:54:23 AM
.
I noticed one of Vee8's posts survived on there.

Yes he did have rather a fall from grace and I would not hasten to jump to his defence in the way some have rallied behind the German suspect Amaral's podcast broadcast helped to unmask.
Is there any more news on the funding appeal for his defence ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 17, 2020, 12:02:53 PM
Yes he did have rather a fall from grace and I would not hasten to jump to his defence in the way some have rallied behind the German suspect Amaral's podcast broadcast helped to unmask.
Is there any more news on the funding appeal for his defence ?

Is there any news at all about it? I thought it was one of these forum myths
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 12:07:24 PM
Yes he did have rather a fall from grace and I would not hasten to jump to his defence in the way some have rallied behind the German suspect Amaral's podcast broadcast helped to unmask.
Is there any more news on the funding appeal for his defence ?

It depends on which Paedophile.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 12:13:42 PM
One of the forums who reported this with salacious glee is still there to be read. I don't see any cites, however.
https://justice4mccannfam.forumotion.com/t2614-large-amount-of-money-the-gnr-offier-and-goncalo-amaral

Salacious glee or not I believe that in the interest of free speech or perhaps more to protect Amaral's dishonour this is one of the sites that Joana Morais tried to have shut down.

I think there might even be an account of Amaral losing his defamation case against Marcos Aragão Correia who defended Leonor Cipriano pro bono when her lawyer Jao Grade apparently left her somewhat in the lurch.

Interestingly enough in relation to Ana Bras fears as a result of comment made by Amaral in the 'golden bullet' tape Jao Grade was found in possession ... "Portuguese lawyer João Grade dos Santos found with drugs." http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 12:26:34 PM
It depends on which Paedophile.

Yeah ... I could have phrased that a bit better.  The German one of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 12:29:45 PM
It depends on which Paedophile.

Not to most of us.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 17, 2020, 12:31:30 PM
Salacious glee or not I believe that in the interest of free speech or perhaps more to protect Amaral's dishonour this is one of the sites that Joana Morais tried to have shut down.

I think there might even be an account of Amaral losing his defamation case against Marcos Aragão Correia who defended Leonor Cipriano pro bono when her lawyer Jao Grade apparently left her somewhat in the lurch.

Interestingly enough in relation to Ana Bras fears as a result of comment made by Amaral in the 'golden bullet' tape Jao Grade was found in possession ... "Portuguese lawyer João Grade dos Santos found with drugs." http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862


Well, there is one thing for sure -  He certainly stood up to the mccs one of the few who wasn't afraid of them.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 12:37:50 PM
Salacious glee or not I believe that in the interest of free speech or perhaps more to protect Amaral's dishonour this is one of the sites that Joana Morais tried to have shut down.

I think there might even be an account of Amaral losing his defamation case against Marcos Aragão Correia who defended Leonor Cipriano pro bono when her lawyer Jao Grade apparently left her somewhat in the lurch.

Interestingly enough in relation to Ana Bras fears as a result of comment made by Amaral in the 'golden bullet' tape Jao Grade was found in possession ... "Portuguese lawyer João Grade dos Santos found with drugs." http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862

Interesting thread here if anyone has a mind to investigate.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.0

It would appear that Correia was not working pro bono but was being paid by Metodo3, the parents private investigators and it would also appear that Grade was sacked when Correia came sniffing and did not leave Cipriano ‘in the lurch’.

What a coincidence eh ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 17, 2020, 01:02:43 PM
Interesting thread here if anyone has a mind to investigate.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.0

It would appear that Correia was not working pro bono but was being paid by Metodo3, the parents private investigators and it would also appear that Grade was sacked when Correia came sniffing and did not leave Cipriano ‘in the lurch’.

What a coincidence eh ?

I'm still waiting to hear who was giving orders to Metodo 3, was it Kennedy or McCann?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 17, 2020, 01:16:28 PM
I'm still waiting to hear who was giving orders to Metodo 3, was it Kennedy or McCann?

I expect it was both, as Kennedy paid the retainer and the Madeleine Fund the expenses afaik.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 01:46:32 PM
Interesting thread here if anyone has a mind to investigate.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.0

It would appear that Correia was not working pro bono but was being paid by Metodo3, the parents private investigators and it would also appear that Grade was sacked when Correia came sniffing and did not leave Cipriano ‘in the lurch’.

What a coincidence eh ?

I'd have to hunt way back over that.

I'm not a Correia fan.

From memory, M3 did pay Correia for something or other (the dam search? Or something else as well?) Fair enough.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 01:59:00 PM
I'd have to hunt way back over that.

I'm not a Correia fan.

From memory, M3 did pay Correia for something or other (the dam search? Or something else as well?) Fair enough.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/agencia-de-detectives-que-procurou-maddie-recrutou-advogado-para-queimar-goncalo-amaral-no-caso-joana-cipriano-1365298&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djo%25C3%25A3o%2Bgrade%2Bdos%2Bsantos%26client%3Dms-opera-mobile%26channel%3Dnew

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 02:04:35 PM
I'm still waiting to hear who was giving orders to Metodo 3, was it Kennedy or McCann?

I'm waiting for proof that Marcos Aragão Correia's alleged campaign to discredit Gonçalo Amaral is anything other than Amaral's mistaken beliefs against him.   

Amaral did attempt to have Correia declared insane and committed to an asylum.  Bear in mind Amaral's accusations of defamation against him were spectacularly kicked out of court leaving Amaral with a bit of a hole in his pocket as a result.

If Correia is a human rights lawyer is it surprising he defends those who believe their rights have been violated such as Ana Bras of the well known 'Golden Bullet saga.
Snip
Not forgetting that it was a client of Correia who claimed that they were Amaral's mistress and that Amaral had threatened her family during a phonecall which was supplied to several supporter forums by Correia himself.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.msg170840#msg170840

It is extraordinary that the suggestion appears to be that people should be denied legal representation unless Amaral approves.  In my opinion the shoe is on the other foot when it comes to who is picking on who.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 02:38:52 PM
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/agencia-de-detectives-que-procurou-maddie-recrutou-advogado-para-queimar-goncalo-amaral-no-caso-joana-cipriano-1365298&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djo%25C3%25A3o%2Bgrade%2Bdos%2Bsantos%26client%3Dms-opera-mobile%26channel%3Dnew

Thanks, Faith, I do vaguely remember that, but I'm still not impressed (by either of them).

I've always been more interested in what happened to these kids than than in alpha male chest-beating.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 02:48:11 PM
My view is that the Joana case was a total miscarriage of justice. Except for the final time she was invited to give her own account. Others don't agree with me, but I still believe it totally plausible that she repeated what she was told to say... No proof, but my opinion.

There's a sub-forum on here to discuss that - I do have sympathy with the mods / admins trying to keep discussions to their respective places.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 03:25:14 PM
I'm waiting for proof that Marcos Aragão Correia's alleged campaign to discredit Gonçalo Amaral is anything other than Amaral's mistaken beliefs against him.   

Amaral did attempt to have Correia declared insane and committed to an asylum.  Bear in mind Amaral's accusations of defamation against him were spectacularly kicked out of court leaving Amaral with a bit of a hole in his pocket as a result.

If Correia is a human rights lawyer is it surprising he defends those who believe their rights have been violated such as Ana Bras of the well known 'Golden Bullet saga.
Snip
Not forgetting that it was a client of Correia who claimed that they were Amaral's mistress and that Amaral had threatened her family during a phonecall which was supplied to several supporter forums by Correia himself.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4719.msg170840#msg170840

It is extraordinary that the suggestion appears to be that people should be denied legal representation unless Amaral approves.  In my opinion the shoe is on the other foot when it comes to who is picking on who.

‘Spectacularly’.......you do so like your hyperbole Brietta.

So it’s just a coincidence that the very woman Amaral is allegedly having an affair with is also the client of Amaral’s arch enemy and someone who is in the pay of Metodo3, the parent’s private investigators ? Is that really the line you’re trying to push ?

It’s funny how Correia seems to have lost all interest in Cipriano after the Amaral trial was over. Another coincidence no doubt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 17, 2020, 04:09:40 PM
AFAICR wasnt Metodo 3 more interested in discrediting Ga than looking for Maddie

although they were paid from the fund money.




The case of Joana Cipriano holds certain relevance in relation to that of Madeleine McCann’s, as Kate and Gerry’s private investigators, Metodo 3, were actively (as will be shown) seeking to discredit Goncalo Amaral. As we stated in our previous article Strange Behaviours!, It was reported that the final bill for Metodo 3’s work could have been anywhere between £300,000 and £750,000, but what were they doing for nearly two months before the McCanns announced that they had been hired?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 04:43:41 PM
AFAICR wasnt Metodo 3 more interested in discrediting Ga than looking for Maddie

although they were paid from the fund money.




The case of Joana Cipriano holds certain relevance in relation to that of Madeleine McCann’s, as Kate and Gerry’s private investigators, Metodo 3, were actively (as will be shown) seeking to discredit Goncalo Amaral. As we stated in our previous article Strange Behaviours!, It was reported that the final bill for Metodo 3’s work could have been anywhere between £300,000 and £750,000, but what were they doing for nearly two months before the McCanns announced that they had been hired?

What are you quoting from?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 17, 2020, 05:17:26 PM
What are you quoting from?

Sorry C thought I had put it - there are others though.

https://theunturnedstonesblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/unfounded-disgrace/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 05:48:03 PM
Sorry C thought I had put it - there are others though.

https://theunturnedstonesblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/unfounded-disgrace/

Not very accurate, is it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 17, 2020, 05:50:20 PM
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/agencia-de-detectives-que-procurou-maddie-recrutou-advogado-para-queimar-goncalo-amaral-no-caso-joana-cipriano-1365298&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djo%25C3%25A3o%2Bgrade%2Bdos%2Bsantos%26client%3Dms-opera-mobile%26channel%3Dnew

If that report is true and I have no reason to believe it isn't then what we had in essence was a criminal conspiracy to influence the outcome into the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann or to put it another way, to pervert the course of justice. Patrick Kennedy later admitted on camera that the involvement of M3 in Portugal was illegal but it didn't stop him from doing it.

I have never understood why the Portuguese police didn't pursue these individuals on conspiracy charges.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 05:51:28 PM
Sorry C thought I had put it - there are others though.

https://theunturnedstonesblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/unfounded-disgrace/

Do you realise this quote is full of lies... Such as Joannas blood was forensically confirmed from the fridge
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 05:53:27 PM
If that report is true and I have no reason to believe it isn't then what we had was a criminal conspiracy to influence the outcome into the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The whole episode stinks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 17, 2020, 05:57:41 PM
AFAICR wasnt Metodo 3 more interested in discrediting Ga than looking for Maddie

although they were paid from the fund money.




The case of Joana Cipriano holds certain relevance in relation to that of Madeleine McCann’s, as Kate and Gerry’s private investigators, Metodo 3, were actively (as will be shown) seeking to discredit Goncalo Amaral. As we stated in our previous article Strange Behaviours!, It was reported that the final bill for Metodo 3’s work could have been anywhere between £300,000 and £750,000, but what were they doing for nearly two months before the McCanns announced that they had been hired?

I recall Correia speaking on camera after coming out of court and boasting that the target (Goncalo Amaral) had been HIT.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 05:59:21 PM
Sorry C thought I had put it - there are others though.

https://theunturnedstonesblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/unfounded-disgrace/

Ok, thanks, Kizzy.

I had a quick skim, but what is this 3-post blog based on? It sounds like many of the pro-Amaral Portuguese ones, translated into English at the time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 06:03:52 PM
Do you realise this quote is full of lies... Such as Joannas blood was forensically confirmed from the fridge

This bit?

"The confession was also backed forensically with evidence of Joana’s blood, discovered in the freezer at their home."

No. That simply wasn't the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 06:08:54 PM
I recall Correia speaking on camera after coming out of court and boasting that the target (Goncalo Amaral) had been HIT.

I didn't realise you spoke Portuguese.. Afair... No one was ever able to substantiate that claim
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 06:09:19 PM
I recall Correia speaking on camera after coming out of court and boasting that the target (Goncalo Amaral) had been HIT.

The 'target' was Correia ... he was the one being sued for defamation ... by Amaral ... and Amaral was the one trying to have Correia committed to an asylum asserting that Correia was insane ... Amaral lost the case.

I do love the way the blogs have rewritten history to suit themselves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 06:10:55 PM
This bit?

"The confession was also backed forensically with evidence of Joana’s blood, discovered in the freezer at their home."

No. That simply wasn't the case.

Also The Incestuous Relationship was deemed Unproven by The Court.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 17, 2020, 06:16:37 PM
This is the one I remember. seems they replaced original lawyer with Marcos Aragão Correia.

Because João Grade dos Santos - wouldn't play ball it seems



Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amaral



In the contact made with João Grade dos Santos, the detectives of Método 3 spoke specifically of Gonçalo Amaral: "Obviously they had to speak about him: he was the inspector most talked about at that moment - mocked the lawyer - after all he was at the investigation of the two cases", he concludes. In their approach, the detectives emphasised the advantages of the proposal, "They told me that money for expenses was not a problem", stressed the lawyer.

Leonor Cipriano was defended by João Grade of Santos during all the inquest period but, on the eve of the start of the trial, the client waived the lawyer's services.

Months after having refused the proposal for collaboration with Metodo 3, João Grade dos Santos was replaced by Marcos Aragão Correia, a young lawyer with offices in Madeira [Portuguese Island]. From him it was a known a quick, but symbolic, passage through the continent: Aragão Correia participated in the searches for Madeleine, as a medium [psychic]. The lawyer had visions of the girl's corpse in the dam of the river Arade, in Silves. "The Judiciary Police - recognizes Aragão - completely dismissed these evidences, though I was a lawyer, while the Método 3 was very interested", he adds





https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/02/detectives-hired-by-mccanns-want-to.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
This is the one I remember. seems they replaced original lawyer with Marcos Aragão Correia.

Because João Grade dos Santos - wouldn't play ball it seems



Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amaral



In the contact made with João Grade dos Santos, the detectives of Método 3 spoke specifically of Gonçalo Amaral: "Obviously they had to speak about him: he was the inspector most talked about at that moment - mocked the lawyer - after all he was at the investigation of the two cases", he concludes. In their approach, the detectives emphasised the advantages of the proposal, "They told me that money for expenses was not a problem", stressed the lawyer.

Leonor Cipriano was defended by João Grade of Santos during all the inquest period but, on the eve of the start of the trial, the client waived the lawyer's services.

Months after having refused the proposal for collaboration with Metodo 3, João Grade dos Santos was replaced by Marcos Aragão Correia, a young lawyer with offices in Madeira [Portuguese Island]. From him it was a known a quick, but symbolic, passage through the continent: Aragão Correia participated in the searches for Madeleine, as a medium [psychic]. The lawyer had visions of the girl's corpse in the dam of the river Arade, in Silves. "The Judiciary Police - recognizes Aragão - completely dismissed these evidences, though I was a lawyer, while the Método 3 was very interested", he adds





https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/02/detectives-hired-by-mccanns-want-to.html

Another pro amaral site making claims with no evidence to support them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 17, 2020, 06:26:04 PM
Also The Incestuous Relationship was deemed Unproven by The Court.
Was there actually any evidence at all that this incestuous relationship existed?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 06:28:30 PM
This is the one I remember. seems they replaced original lawyer with Marcos Aragão Correia.

Because João Grade dos Santos - wouldn't play ball it seems



Detectives Hired by the McCanns want to Frame Gonçalo Amaral



In the contact made with João Grade dos Santos, the detectives of Método 3 spoke specifically of Gonçalo Amaral: "Obviously they had to speak about him: he was the inspector most talked about at that moment - mocked the lawyer - after all he was at the investigation of the two cases", he concludes. In their approach, the detectives emphasised the advantages of the proposal, "They told me that money for expenses was not a problem", stressed the lawyer.

Leonor Cipriano was defended by João Grade of Santos during all the inquest period but, on the eve of the start of the trial, the client waived the lawyer's services.

Months after having refused the proposal for collaboration with Metodo 3, João Grade dos Santos was replaced by Marcos Aragão Correia, a young lawyer with offices in Madeira [Portuguese Island]. From him it was a known a quick, but symbolic, passage through the continent: Aragão Correia participated in the searches for Madeleine, as a medium [psychic]. The lawyer had visions of the girl's corpse in the dam of the river Arade, in Silves. "The Judiciary Police - recognizes Aragão - completely dismissed these evidences, though I was a lawyer, while the Método 3 was very interested", he adds





https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/02/detectives-hired-by-mccanns-want-to.html


I can see why the hatred for Correia if he was Leonor Cipriano's lawyer when the Court found Amaral guilty of perjury upheld despite his appeal.  And boy oh boy do these people know how to hate. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 06:30:00 PM
Was there actually any evidence at all that this incestuous relationship existed?

None... There was no evidence for anything claimed... On topic it seems amaral and his team just invented  the whole story
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 06:31:27 PM
Was there actually any evidence at all that this incestuous relationship existed?

Not that I recall.

I read The Trial Transcript at the time, but I have no idea of where to find it.  But the whole thing was a farce.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 17, 2020, 06:43:18 PM

I can see why the hatred for Correia if he was Leonor Cipriano's lawyer when the Court found Amaral guilty of perjury upheld despite his appeal.  And boy oh boy do these people know how to hate.

Well I believe as often is with the mccs - not everything is as it should be IMO


Paulo Pereira Cristovão, a former PJ inspector and one of the 5 arguidos of Faro accuses Marcos Aragão Correia of trying to make a 'deal' with the defendants."And that deal was: all of you incriminate Gonçalo Amaral and I’ll arrange so that Leonor Cipriano says that you have nothing to do with this – well, deals like this, only in Hollywood", ironizes
 Pereira Cristovão.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 06:45:44 PM
Well I believe as often is with the mccs - not everything is as it should be IMO


Paulo Pereira Cristovão, a former PJ inspector and one of the 5 arguidos of Faro accuses Marcos Aragão Correia of trying to make a 'deal' with the defendants."And that deal was: all of you incriminate Gonçalo Amaral and I’ll arrange so that Leonor Cipriano says that you have nothing to do with this – well, deals like this, only in Hollywood", ironizes
 Pereira Cristovão.

And we all know what happened to Cristovao.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 06:57:56 PM

I can see why the hatred for Correia if he was Leonor Cipriano's lawyer when the Court found Amaral guilty of perjury upheld despite his appeal.  And boy oh boy do these people know how to hate.

To be fair Amaral, after his spectacular win in the libel case brought by the parents, is still sought out for his opinion on the case by the media....the Netflix docuseries for example...and has continued to happily live his life 

Cipriano, on the other hand,  is still a child murderer and deeply hated by all right-thinking individuals. She was also unceremoniously dumped by Correia when she was no longer of any use to him.

And Correia...Correia, once his funding from Metodo3 ceased went awol and when last heard of was in deepest Brazil.

Well done Amaral say I.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:00:06 PM
And we all know what happened to Cristovao.

Well he didn’t take the deal and was found not guilty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 07:04:35 PM
Well he didn’t take the deal and was found not guilty.

He was convicted of The Football Club Bribery Case.  And is he not still on trial in the House Invasions?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 07:07:14 PM
To be fair Amaral, after his spectacular win in the libel case brought by the parents, is still sought out for his opinion on the case by the media....the Netflix docuseries for example...and has continued to happily live his life 

Cipriano, on the other hand,  is still a child murderer and deeply hated by all right-thinking individuals. She was also unceremoniously dumped by Correia when she was no longer of any use to him.

And Correia...Correia, once his funding from Metodo3 ceased went awol and when last heard of was in deepest Brazil.

Well done Amaral say I.

We don't know if Cipriano is a child murderer.. There is a claim on here by a Portuguese journalist that most Portuguese thinks she's not guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:10:17 PM
He was convicted of The Football Club Bribery Case.  And is he not still on trial in the House Invasions?

Was he, I wasn’t aware.....mainly because I’m not interested in the downfall of individuals who has done thing wrong to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:13:19 PM
We don't know if Cipriano is a child murderer.. There is a claim on here by a Portuguese journalist that most Portuguese thinks she's not guilty

She’s a convicted child murderer...ergo she’s a child murderer.....everything else is noise.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 07:16:13 PM
Reading through...

For the record, I'm not a fan of either of them, to put it politely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 07:17:44 PM
She’s a convicted child murderer...ergo she’s a child murderer.....everything else is noise.

An awful lot of bodies have gone missing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 07:19:29 PM
She’s a convicted child murderer...ergo she’s a child murderer.....everything else is noise.

A conviction isn't absolute proof.. Particularly when the only evidence wsd a confession beaten out of her
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 17, 2020, 07:21:16 PM
An awful lot of bodies have gone missing.
all fed to the pigs by their parents no doubt. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:23:09 PM
An awful lot of bodies have gone missing.

I’ve no idea what you mean.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 17, 2020, 07:23:34 PM
She’s a convicted child murderer...ergo she’s a child murderer.....everything else is noise.

Have you ever read the court judgements, Faith? I've honestly never read anything quite so bizarre.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:25:11 PM
A conviction isn't absolute proof.. Particularly when the only evidence wsd a confession beaten out of her

A conviction is the best proof we’ve got so I’d advise you to simply suck it up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:30:15 PM
Have you ever read the court judgements, Faith? I've honestly never read anything quite so bizarre.

When considering the  innocence or guilt of an accused person I always start with the question ‘ how honest is the defendant’....and no matter if you believe that Cipriano is guilty or innocent you can never call her honest.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 07:32:31 PM
A conviction is the best proof we’ve got so I’d advise you to simply suck it up.
I'm hardly likely to regard you as a person to take advice from...I don't think she's guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 07:33:39 PM
When considering the  innocence or guilt of an accused person I always start with the question ‘ how honest is the defendant’....and no matter if you believe that Cipriano is guilty or innocent you can never call her honest.

You couldn't exactly call Amaral honest either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 07:35:19 PM
When considering the  innocence or guilt of an accused person I always start with the question ‘ how honest is the defendant’....and no matter if you believe that Cipriano is guilty or innocent you can never call her honest.

You don't know enough about her or have any first hand knowledge to reach any opinion of value.. Imo.
I look at the evidence and to me it suggests she's innocent
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:36:28 PM
I'm hardly likely to regard you as a person to take advice from...I don't think she's guilty

She’s a convicted murderess...that is not open to opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 07:37:16 PM
You couldn't exactly call Amaral honest either.

And he was convicted....much like Cipriano.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 07:41:52 PM
And he was convicted....much like Cipriano.

Oh, of course.  Amaral only committed Perjury after Leonor was beaten nearly senseless.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 17, 2020, 07:52:05 PM
Oh, of course.  Amaral only committed Perjury after Leonor was beaten nearly senseless.

She wasn't beaten hard enough, imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 17, 2020, 07:55:54 PM
Well I believe as often is with the mccs - not everything is as it should be IMO


Paulo Pereira Cristovão, a former PJ inspector and one of the 5 arguidos of Faro accuses Marcos Aragão Correia of trying to make a 'deal' with the defendants."And that deal was: all of you incriminate Gonçalo Amaral and I’ll arrange so that Leonor Cipriano says that you have nothing to do with this – well, deals like this, only in Hollywood", ironizes
 Pereira Cristovão.

Are you really quoting Paulo Pereira Cristovão expecting anyone to place any reliance on what he says ???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 08:11:12 PM
And he was convicted....much like Cipriano.

the evidence was overwhelming in his case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 08:13:03 PM
She’s a convicted murderess...that is not open to opinion.

What is open to opinion is her guilt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 09:55:56 PM
Oh, of course.  Amaral only committed Perjury after Leonor was beaten nearly senseless.

You know what...I’d believe that she had been beaten if she hadn’t proven herself such a committed liar.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 09:57:34 PM
the evidence was overwhelming in his case

No it wasn’t but he was convicted, just like Cipriano so no use bleating.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:02:03 PM
What is open to opinion is her guilt.

No it’s not. She was tried and found guilty. The end.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 17, 2020, 10:03:00 PM
You know what...I’d believe that she had been beaten if she hadn’t proven herself such a committed liar.

The Portuguese Court decided that Leonor Cipriano was beaten while in the custody of The PJ.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:10:42 PM
The Portuguese Court decided that Leonor Cipriano was beaten while in the custody of The PJ.

And they also said that she was guilty of murder so are you cherry picking the verdicts that suit ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 10:12:36 PM
And they also said that she was guilty of murder so are you cherry picking the verdicts that suit ?

No cherry picking just looking at the evidence.. And there's this..



MST : Let me ask you a question, do you think that in this country many people believes that Leonor Cipriano killed her daughter ?
GA : I think so.
MST : Very few people, Gonçalo Amaral, very few people.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 17, 2020, 10:13:16 PM
Leonor Cipriano condemned to seven more months in jail for false accusations

The Court of Faro condemned today Leonor Cipriano to seven more months in jail for making false accusations in the process which incriminated five Judiciary Police officers of the crimes of aggression and torture.

2 - Leonor Cipriano had already confessed to her crimes on October 13 2004, and was accompanied by her lawyer at the time, Célia Costa, during the questioning before the alleged aggressions on October 14 2004 took place.

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:14:19 PM
No cherry picking just looking at the evidence.. And there's this..



MST : Let me ask you a question, do you think that in this country many people believes that Leonor Cipriano killed her daughter ?
GA : I think so.
MST : Very few people, Gonçalo Amaral, very few people.

As I said on the other thread....did he carry out a poll ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 17, 2020, 10:23:23 PM
As I said on the other thread....did he carry out a poll ?
He certainly shut amaral up which is more to the point
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 17, 2020, 10:36:37 PM
He certainly shut amaral up which is more to the point

Again....has he carried out a poll ? What is he basing his claim on ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2020, 07:51:06 AM
Again....has he carried out a poll ? What is he basing his claim on ?
On his experience...I would think  a portuguese Journalist would have a far better idea of what the portuguese people think than you or anyone on this forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 10:38:16 AM
On his experience...I would think  a portuguese Journalist would have a far better idea of what the portuguese people think than you or anyone on this forum.

So he didn’t do a poll so has no way of knowing. Thank you for verifying that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 10:43:27 AM

I seem to remember that The Journalist is also a Lawyer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 10:51:42 AM
I seem to remember that The Journalist is also a Lawyer.

Nevertheless he was presenting his opinion as fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 10:54:52 AM
Nevertheless he was presenting his opinion as fact

There's a lot of that about.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 11:20:50 AM
There's a lot of that about.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2020, 11:40:31 AM
So he didn’t do a poll so has no way of knowing. Thank you for verifying that.

He is in a perfect position to judge the mood of the nation.. You just can't accept facts
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 11:55:56 AM
He is in a perfect position to judge the mood of the nation.. You just can't accept facts

You do realise Davel don’t you that just because someone claims something that you agree with doesn’t necessarily make it true ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2020, 12:02:16 PM
You do realise Davel don’t you that just because someone claims something that you agree with doesn’t necessarily make it true ?

It's a fact that he's in a perfect position to judge.. It's pretty strong evidence.  You also need to accept it is not factual to refer to cipriano as a child murderer... She may be innocent
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 18, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
Are you really quoting Paulo Pereira Cristovão expecting anyone to place any reliance on what he says ???

Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else. who are you comparing him with B


Why ever did the mccs involve metido 3 in the first place another disaster IMO they never attempted to reclaim any money paid to them.

They were dodgy - and dodgy detectives do dodgy things. Were they ever looking for Maddie.

I believe to make sence of them being employed was they had ulterior motives.

It still doesn't alter the fact GA believed there was no abduction - and that is still the case.



An Unjust Removal
On 2nd October, 2007, Amaral, after, criticizing his British counterparts in a phone call to a British journalist, was taken off the case and transferred to the nearby Algarve city of Faro. However, Amaral learnt, soon after, that British Prime Minister Gordon Brown was privy to this information before Amaral himself was notified. Suspicious? Be it as you shall privately determine.

For those that have followed this case as closely as I have, it is easy to determine why Amaral was unceremoniously removed from the investigation. Bearing in mind, that by now the investigators were scrutinising very closely and leaning towards the possible involvement of the McCanns themselves in the disappearance of their daughter. At this stage, the investigators had found ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of an abduction, but had found huge inconsistencies in the McCann’s (and friend’s) accounts of that night and had procured remarkable evidence retrieved from the highly-trained dog alerts, Eddie and Keela.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 12:16:36 PM
It's a fact that he's in a perfect position to judge.. It's pretty strong evidence.  You also need to accept it is not factual to refer to cipriano as a child murderer... She may be innocent

It’s not evidence at all....it’s opinion. He is in no more a position to judge than you or I.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 18, 2020, 01:08:30 PM
Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else. who are you comparing him with B


Why ever did the mccs involve metido 3 in the first place another disaster IMO they never attempted to reclaim any money paid to them.

They were dodgy - and dodgy detectives do dodgy things. Were they ever looking for Maddie.

I believe to make sence of them being employed was they had ulterior motives.

It still doesn't alter the fact GA believed there was no abduction - and that is still the case.



An Unjust Removal
On 2nd October, 2007, Amaral, after, criticizing his British counterparts in a phone call to a British journalist, was taken off the case and transferred to the nearby Algarve city of Faro. However, Amaral learnt, soon after, that British Prime Minister Gordon Brown was privy to this information before Amaral himself was notified. Suspicious? Be it as you shall privately determine.

For those that have followed this case as closely as I have, it is easy to determine why Amaral was unceremoniously removed from the investigation. Bearing in mind, that by now the investigators were scrutinising very closely and leaning towards the possible involvement of the McCanns themselves in the disappearance of their daughter. At this stage, the investigators had found ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of an abduction, but had found huge inconsistencies in the McCann’s (and friend’s) accounts of that night and had procured remarkable evidence retrieved from the highly-trained dog alerts, Eddie and Keela.

"Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else."  - Kizzy

I think you have made an excellent point there ... and the fact remains we just don't know the depths of his corruption although the results from the fairly recent court cases against him do give a slight indication.

But the thread isn't about him as a bit part player, and were I you I wouldn't be too keen on reminding of what appears to be the paranoia and persecution complex exhibited by the main player and the subject of the thread - Goncalo Amaral.
 
The man who in my opinion by denying Madeleine's parents the presumption of innocence was the instigator of the hatred directed against them ... and fuelled a climate in which there are those who cannot differentiate between the anomaly of insisting that a vile convicted criminal's human rights must be observed in the one breath while in the next continue to deny the McCanns theirs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 01:09:58 PM
You do realise Davel don’t you that just because someone claims something that you agree with doesn’t necessarily make it true ?

Nor does it make Davel wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 18, 2020, 01:35:00 PM
"Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else."  - Kizzy

I think you have made an excellent point there ... and the fact remains we just don't know the depths of his corruption although the results from the fairly recent court cases against him do give a slight indication.

But the thread isn't about him as a bit part player, and were I you I wouldn't be too keen on reminding of what appears to be the paranoia and persecution complex exhibited by the main player and the subject of the thread - Goncalo Amaral.
 
The man who in my opinion by denying Madeleine's parents the presumption of innocence was the instigator of the hatred directed against them ... and fuelled a climate in which there are those who cannot differentiate between the anomaly of insisting that a vile convicted criminal's human rights must be observed in the one breath while in the next continue to deny the McCanns theirs.

At this moment in time there's no evidence that the McCann's human rights were denied them. Until the ECHR reach a conclusion that remains an opinion, rather than a fact imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2020, 01:39:04 PM
At this moment in time there's no evidence that the McCann's human rights were denied them. Until the ECHR reach a conclusion that remains an opinion, rather than a fact imo.

Of course there is evidence...but no proof. Evidence will be presented and when the ECHR reach a conclusion that will be proof...not evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 18, 2020, 01:44:38 PM
"Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else."  - Kizzy

I think you have made an excellent point there ... and the fact remains we just don't know the depths of his corruption although the results from the fairly recent court cases against him do give a slight indication.

But the thread isn't about him as a bit part player, and were I you I wouldn't be too keen on reminding of what appears to be the paranoia and persecution complex exhibited by the main player and the subject of the thread - Goncalo Amaral.
 
The man who in my opinion by denying Madeleine's parents the presumption of innocence was the instigator of the hatred directed against them ... and fuelled a climate in which there are those who cannot differentiate between the anomaly of insisting that a vile convicted criminal's human rights must be observed in the one breath while in the next continue to deny the McCanns theirs.

I you I wouldn't be too keen on reminding of what appears to be the paranoia and persecution complex exhibited by the main player and the subject of the thread - Goncalo

Well, you're, not me are you - is that an order or what.

I think you may find the main players in all this is the mccs -

I think your very deluded when you say GA is to blame for any animosity towards them.

The mccs did a good job of that themselves

I think you underestimate people's intelligence by you blaming GA as to how they think.

I doubt very much that one person on here has there beliefs because of GA.

Or anyone else for that matter - like everything else Its only ur opinion unless you can prove otherwise B
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 01:45:26 PM
Paulo Pereira Cristovão was no more corrupt than anyone else. who are you comparing him with B


Why ever did the mccs involve metido 3 in the first place another disaster IMO they never attempted to reclaim any money paid to them.

They were dodgy - and dodgy detectives do dodgy things. Were they ever looking for Maddie.

I believe to make sence of them being employed was they had ulterior motives.

It still doesn't alter the fact GA believed there was no abduction - and that is still the case.



An Unjust Removal
On 2nd October, 2007, Amaral, after, criticizing his British counterparts in a phone call to a British journalist, was taken off the case and transferred to the nearby Algarve city of Faro. However, Amaral learnt, soon after, that British Prime Minister Gordon Brown was privy to this information before Amaral himself was notified. Suspicious? Be it as you shall privately determine.

For those that have followed this case as closely as I have, it is easy to determine why Amaral was unceremoniously removed from the investigation. Bearing in mind, that by now the investigators were scrutinising very closely and leaning towards the possible involvement of the McCanns themselves in the disappearance of their daughter. At this stage, the investigators had found ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of an abduction, but had found huge inconsistencies in the McCann’s (and friend’s) accounts of that night and had procured remarkable evidence retrieved from the highly-trained dog alerts, Eddie and Keela.

Cristovao is corrupt.  He has been proven to be so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 01:59:08 PM
Nor does it make Davel wrong.

It makes is claim null and void.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2020, 02:00:56 PM
It makes is claim null and void.

Do you imagine thats a fact or do you realise you are quoting your opinion.

I posted...

I don't think I am... According  to Portuguese journalist interviewing amaral most Portuguese  don't think she's guilty


That is a 100% factually correct statement
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 02:03:25 PM
It seems that Cipriano was paroled in February last year and has vowed to keeping looking for her daughter. Do any those who believe that Joana is still alive know what steps she has taken in her goal ? Media appeals ? Balloon releasing ? Anything ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2020, 02:04:34 PM
It seems that Cipriano was paroled in February last year and has vowed to keeping looking for her daughter. Do any those who believe that Joana is still alive know what steps she has taken in her goal ? Media appeals ? Balloon releasing ? Anything ?

I think you are becoming a little obsessed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 02:17:33 PM
I think you are becoming a little obsessed.

It’s a legitimate question....one you are obviously not comfortable answering.

Not to worry, I’ve opened a new thread on the subject so you can comment there.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2020, 02:27:24 PM
It’s a legitimate question....one you are obviously not comfortable answering.

Not to worry, I’ve opened a new thread on the subject so you can comment there.

its  a legitimite question in your opinion...pointless in mine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 02:35:53 PM
its  a legitimite question in your opinion...pointless in mine.

You think Cipriano is innocent...now is your opportunity to help her prove it. You must be champing at the bit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2020, 03:14:28 PM
You think Cipriano is innocent...now is your opportunity to help her prove it. You must be champing at the bit.

Are you crazy... Why should I feel the need to get involved... What a ridiculous idea
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 04:53:41 PM
Are you crazy... Why should I feel the need to get involved... What a ridiculous idea

I thought not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 18, 2020, 05:13:55 PM
I just hope the German police manage to persuade the Portuguese to look again at the Cipriano case with fresh eyes, especially if charges are brought against Bruckner.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 05:21:54 PM
I just hope the German police manage to persuade the Portuguese to look again at the Cipriano case with fresh eyes, especially if charges are brought against Bruckner.

Yes, because there's a hell of a lot of abduction evidence in the Cipriano case, just as there is in the McCann ca......oh, no wait, that's right.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 18, 2020, 05:33:05 PM
Yes, because there's a hell of a lot of abduction evidence in the Cipriano case, just as there is in the McCann ca......oh, no wait, that's right.
Y-A-W-N
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 05:33:54 PM

...& besides, there is photographic evidence that Joana is alive & well, living with Maddie in the Atlas mountains of Morocco.

Just ask Sadie, she can identify Joana by the shape of her ankles.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 18, 2020, 05:48:43 PM
...& besides, there is photographic evidence that Joana is alive & well, living with Maddie in the Atlas mountains of Morocco.

Just ask Sadie, she can identify Joana by the shape of her ankles.
Madeleine and Joana are both little girls who are almost certainly dead, but do carry on taking the piss, we all love a good laugh at their expense.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 05:51:01 PM
I just hope the German police manage to persuade the Portuguese to look again at the Cipriano case with fresh eyes, especially if charges are brought against Bruckner.

Not much chance of that, I don't think.  In fact not much chance of anything.  We only now have another farce.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 05:52:04 PM
Madeleine and Joana are both little girls who are almost certainly dead, but do carry on taking the piss, we all love a good laugh at their expense.

Well, if they are dead then they aren't going to be affected by anything I have to say, so I really don't see the problem myself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 05:52:28 PM
Yes, because there's a hell of a lot of abduction evidence in the Cipriano case, just as there is in the McCann ca......oh, no wait, that's right.

Oh for God's sake do bog off.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 18, 2020, 06:04:14 PM
Madeleine and Joana are both little girls who are almost certainly dead, but do carry on taking the piss, we all love a good laugh at their expense.
... and Sadie’s. So much disrespect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 18, 2020, 06:27:59 PM
Well, if they are dead then they aren't going to be affected by anything I have to say, so I really don't see the problem myself.
Great, so do carry on taking the piss out of dead children - it’s really most admirable and thanks for your contributions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 18, 2020, 06:29:03 PM
It seems that Cipriano was paroled in February last year and has vowed to keeping looking for her daughter. Do any those who believe that Joana is still alive know what steps she has taken in her goal ? Media appeals ? Balloon releasing ? Anything ?

May taking a claim to the ECHR at the very least...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 06:33:47 PM
Great, so do carry on taking the piss out of dead children - it’s really most admirable and thanks for your contributions.

It's more like I'm taking the piss out of people who claim the dead children were abducted, but never mind.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 18, 2020, 06:45:18 PM
May taking a claim to the ECHR at the very least...

At the very least.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2020, 06:58:33 PM
May taking a claim to the ECHR at the very least...

Any ECHR claim needs to be made within 6 months of the judgement...so shes way out of time....i would have thought posters here would have known the facts. i would say with her torture she would ahve had a very easy case re no fair trial
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2020, 06:59:05 PM
At the very least.

claims have to be made within 6 months of judgement
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 18, 2020, 07:06:41 PM
It's more like I'm taking the piss out of people who claim the dead children were abducted, but never mind.
And I’m taking the piss out of you so all good.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 18, 2020, 07:12:34 PM
And I’m taking the piss out of you so all good.

Are you?  I hadn't noticed, so you're not doing a very good job of it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2020, 07:54:43 PM
Are you?  I hadn't noticed, so you're not doing a very good job of it.

No on cares fo what you think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 19, 2020, 12:17:14 AM
At this moment in time there's no evidence that the McCann's human rights were denied them. Until the ECHR reach a conclusion that remains an opinion, rather than a fact imo.
If one wishes to wade through the filth of fora specifically set up for the purpose - it doesn't require the ECHR to reach any conclusion that Kate and Gerry McCann's human rights are violated as a matter of course - an awareness of common humanity should suffice.   
The abuse and vilification directed at them on a daily basis speaks for itself of the violation they suffer without any let up ... not even now when their suffering must be unbearable.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 19, 2020, 01:48:37 AM
If one wishes to wade through the filth of fora specifically set up for the purpose - it doesn't require the ECHR to reach any conclusion that Kate and Gerry McCann's human rights are violated as a matter of course - an awareness of common humanity should suffice.   
The abuse and vilification directed at them on a daily basis speaks for itself of the violation they suffer without any let up ... not even now when their suffering must be unbearable.

Yet incomparable to Madeleine’s.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 19, 2020, 02:09:53 AM
If one wishes to wade through the filth of fora specifically set up for the purpose - it doesn't require the ECHR to reach any conclusion that Kate and Gerry McCann's human rights are violated as a matter of course - an awareness of common humanity should suffice.   
The abuse and vilification directed at them on a daily basis speaks for itself of the violation they suffer without any let up ... not even now when their suffering must be unbearable.

And my Worm has just turned.  This is sad.  It is always one step too far with me.  I will now be applying The Rules.  So if in future you are at a thinking it was me who deleted your comment when it wasn't then it is likely that it will be me in future.

I have just about had enough.  All that I require from any of you is good manners.  And it grieves that I actually have to ask.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 19, 2020, 08:09:59 AM
And my Worm has just turned.  This is sad.  It is always one step too far with me.  I will now be applying The Rules.  So if in future you are at a thinking it was me who deleted your comment when it wasn't then it is likely that it will be me in future.

I have just about had enough.  All that I require from any of you is good manners.  And it grieves that I actually have to ask.

for some strange reason eleanor you seem to think the post made clearly by Brietta  was made by me. Not sure how you managed to amke such gross mistake
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 19, 2020, 09:23:19 AM
If one wishes to wade through the filth of fora specifically set up for the purpose - it doesn't require the ECHR to reach any conclusion that Kate and Gerry McCann's human rights are violated as a matter of course - an awareness of common humanity should suffice.   
The abuse and vilification directed at them on a daily basis speaks for itself of the violation they suffer without any let up ... not even now when their suffering must be unbearable.

They suffer without any letup day after day - where do you mean on here.

IMO it doesn't bother them - it bothers you.

They are getting on with life you should - the news that some believe is the culprit only disrupts there lives

What violation are they suffering - do you honestly think they read this or care what is said

Those that don't believe the abduction theory -  your words only fall on deaf ears B
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 19, 2020, 09:36:33 AM
They suffer without any letup day after day - where do you mean on here.

IMO it doesn't bother them - it bothers you.

They are getting on with life you should - the news that some believe is the culprit only disrupts there lives

What violation are they suffering - do you honestly think they read this or care what is said

Those that don't believe the abduction theory -  your words only fall on deaf ears B

It is called 'empathy' which either features in a person's genetic makeup or it or is lacking from it.

The parents of other missing children certainly have it as a result of bitter experience.  Those of us who wouldn't wish that first hand knowledge on our worst enemy, know it by exercising common sense.

Snip
The mum of missing Ben Needham from Sheffield has reacted to developments in the case surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Kerry, aged 47, said it must be ‘horrific and heartbreaking’ for Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, to be told by German prosecutors that they have a suspect in custody and believe their daughter to be dead.
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/mum-sheffields-missing-ben-needham-reacts-madeleine-mccann-developments-2888244
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 19, 2020, 09:52:25 AM
It is called 'empathy' which either features in a person's genetic makeup or it or is lacking from it.

The parents of other missing children certainly have it as a result of bitter experience.  Those of us who wouldn't wish that first hand knowledge on our worst enemy, know it by exercising common sense.

Snip
The mum of missing Ben Needham from Sheffield has reacted to developments in the case surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Kerry, aged 47, said it must be ‘horrific and heartbreaking’ for Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, to be told by German prosecutors that they have a suspect in custody and believe their daughter to be dead.
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/mum-sheffields-missing-ben-needham-reacts-madeleine-mccann-developments-2888244

I believe empathy is a continuum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 19, 2020, 09:53:51 AM
I believe empathy is a continuum.
I don't... I think empathy and compassion grow like a, seed from those brave enough to plant it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 19, 2020, 10:08:09 AM
It is called 'empathy' which either features in a person's genetic makeup or it or is lacking from it.

The parents of other missing children certainly have it as a result of bitter experience.  Those of us who wouldn't wish that first hand knowledge on our worst enemy, know it by exercising common sense.

Snip
The mum of missing Ben Needham from Sheffield has reacted to developments in the case surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Kerry, aged 47, said it must be ‘horrific and heartbreaking’ for Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, to be told by German prosecutors that they have a suspect in custody and believe their daughter to be dead.
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/mum-sheffields-missing-ben-needham-reacts-madeleine-mccann-developments-2888244

I don't think empathy is either present or absent in a new born. I think it's something children learn - or not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 19, 2020, 10:19:43 AM
I don't think empathy is either present or absent in a new born. I think it's something children learn - or not.

I think it's probably both... Behaviour can be part if a genetic memory.. It's easy to train border collie to herd sheep because it's in bred
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 19, 2020, 10:52:36 AM
It is called 'empathy' which either features in a person's genetic makeup or it or is lacking from it.

The parents of other missing children certainly have it as a result of bitter experience.  Those of us who wouldn't wish that first hand knowledge on our worst enemy, know it by exercising common sense.

Snip
The mum of missing Ben Needham from Sheffield has reacted to developments in the case surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Kerry, aged 47, said it must be ‘horrific and heartbreaking’ for Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, to be told by German prosecutors that they have a suspect in custody and believe their daughter to be dead.
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/mum-sheffields-missing-ben-needham-reacts-madeleine-mccann-developments-2888244


You can show as many snips as you like - but what you don't get is I have Empathy.

But that is for Maddie - Also I don't believe Maddie was abducted.

So what Empathy would I have for the mccs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 19, 2020, 05:08:23 PM

You can show as many snips as you like - but what you don't get is I have Empathy.

But that is for Maddie - Also I don't believe Maddie was abducted.

So what Empathy would I have for the mccs.

In my opinion as much as Goncalo Amaral had for them when he wrote a book of lies featuring them.  And in my opinion as much as those who did everything in their power to prevent Madeleine's parents looking for her when no-one else was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 19, 2020, 05:54:45 PM
In my opinion as much as Goncalo Amaral had for them when he wrote a book of lies featuring them.  And in my opinion as much as those who did everything in their power to prevent Madeleine's parents looking for her when no-one else was.

Ye as you say IYO but you don't know its true.

The mccs did everything in there power to ruin GA.

Who did everything in there power to prevent mccs looking for Maddie.

Apart from themselves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 19, 2020, 05:58:22 PM
In my opinion as much as Goncalo Amaral had for them when he wrote a book of lies featuring them.  And in my opinion as much as those who did everything in their power to prevent Madeleine's parents looking for her when no-one else was.

Who has prevented Kate & Gerry from looking for Madeleine?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 19, 2020, 06:02:40 PM
Ye as you say IYO but you don't know its true.

The mccs did everything in there power to ruin GA.

Who did everything in there power to prevent mccs looking for Maddie.

Apart from themselves.
The reverse is also evident.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 19, 2020, 06:37:20 PM
The reverse is also evident.
Yes, and let’s face it - he started it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 19, 2020, 06:38:28 PM
I don't think empathy is either present or absent in a new born. I think it's something children learn - or not.
I seem to recall you consider empathy to be an overrated quality anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 19, 2020, 09:05:20 PM
I seem to recall you consider empathy to be an overrated quality anyway.

Did I? Maybe it was selective empathy that I wasn't keen on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 19, 2020, 10:16:55 PM
Did I? Maybe it was selective empathy that I wasn't keen on.
Something you don’t practice yourself then, having empathy for no one I guess?!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2020, 12:22:42 AM
Who has prevented Kate & Gerry from looking for Madeleine?

Absolutely no one! And the claims they make about being left to look for their daughter alone are such horrible lies.
 They couldn't go look for their daughter -too busy jogging,blogging, gaining celebrity status  way too busy dahlings..

I have no empathy for the parents due to the one fact we do not know what happened to Maddie and if the parents were involved or not.

I agree with Kizzy. Madeleine is our concern -not the parents feelings.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 20, 2020, 01:14:26 AM
Back On Topic please ... Goncalo Amaral.  Thank you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 20, 2020, 02:25:57 AM
To be fair Amaral, after his spectacular win in the libel case brought by the parents, is still sought out for his opinion on the case by the media....the Netflix docuseries for example...and has continued to happily live his life 

Cipriano, on the other hand,  is still a child murderer and deeply hated by all right-thinking individuals. She was also unceremoniously dumped by Correia when she was no longer of any use to him.

And Correia...Correia, once his funding from Metodo3 ceased went awol and when last heard of was in deepest Brazil.

Well done Amaral say I.

Yep, he married a Brazilian girl.

Leonor Cipriano is not a murderer in the eyes of people who value Justice.  She was mercilessly tortured.   Her trial was the most unjust trial that I have ever heard of.  Henry Peacock was the judge, IIRC.   Dependent on the results, it will be interesting to find out what happens to him after the ECHR assess the case.

It will be interesting to hear how it affects Amaral and his mate Cristovao too
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 20, 2020, 12:05:39 PM
Yep, he married a Brazilian girl.

Leonor Cipriano is not a murderer in the eyes of people who value Justice.  She was mercilessly tortured.   Her trial was the most unjust trial that I have ever heard of.  Henry Peacock was the judge, IIRC.   Dependent on the results, it will be interesting to find out what happens to him after the ECHR assess the case.

It will be interesting to hear how it affects Amaral and his mate Cristovao too
She's a **** of the highest order. Parole? Here's hoping she meets a similar end.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 20, 2020, 12:16:20 PM
Yep, he married a Brazilian girl.

Leonor Cipriano is not a murderer in the eyes of people who value Justice.  She was mercilessly tortured.   Her trial was the most unjust trial that I have ever heard of.  Henry Peacock was the judge, IIRC.   Dependent on the results, it will be interesting to find out what happens to him after the ECHR assess the case.

It will be interesting to hear how it affects Amaral and his mate Cristovao too

Is the case going to the ECHR ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 20, 2020, 02:32:06 PM
I seem to recall you consider empathy to be an overrated quality anyway.

Well, your wrong there - and you cant prove otherwise VS.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 20, 2020, 02:32:48 PM
Well, your wrong there - and you cant prove otherwise VS.
Sorry, are you G-Unit's PR person?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 20, 2020, 02:42:39 PM
Sorry, are you G-Unit's PR person?


 *%^^& VS my bad.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 20, 2020, 02:52:06 PM
Is the case going to the ECHR ?

Its  a shame it wont be...re the six month limit...shed have an excellent case for an unfair trial
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 20, 2020, 03:00:08 PM
She's a **** of the highest order. Parole? Here's hoping she meets a similar end.

It is widely known within the community who knew that 'family'  that young girl was abused and treated very badly by the mother and others!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 20, 2020, 03:01:58 PM
It is widely known within the community who knew that 'family'  that young girl was abused and treated very badly by the mother and others!

Do you have any reliable information to back that up....I think you are posting PJ propaganda
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 20, 2020, 03:05:38 PM

The topic is GONCALO AMARAL please stay on it ... Thank you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on June 20, 2020, 09:00:08 PM
Absolutely no one! And the claims they make about being left to look for their daughter alone are such horrible lies.
 They couldn't go look for their daughter -too busy jogging,blogging, gaining celebrity status  way too busy dahlings..

I have no empathy for the parents due to the one fact we do not know what happened to Maddie and if the parents were involved or not.

I agree with Kizzy. Madeleine is our concern -not the parents feelings.

totally  agree the twins and maddie  were babies  kate and gerry were grown adults
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 21, 2020, 04:46:51 PM
Amaral is reported as saying that Brueckner's van had been checked and ruled out.

Does anyone know when that might have been or why it was taken to Germany for testing?

Snip
Also the yellow and white van of Christian Brueckner, a VolksWagen Westphalia where the German lived during his time in Portugal, has already been analyzed by the German authorities. What would prove to be a key piece of evidence turned out to be fruitless, since the vehicle will have already been thoroughly analyzed and no traces of DNA were found that link Christian Brueckner to the murder of Madeleine McCann.

Gonçalo Amaral, a former inspector from the Faro PJ who led the case in Portugal, tells Australian channel 9news that it is wrong that Christian Brueckner escaped the radar of the Portuguese authorities and that the German was investigated at the time. "He was investigated by the PJ at the time and, when the investigation was over, he was discarded," says Gonçalo Amaral who reveals that even though Brueckner's van was analyzed even before the German police made the suspect known.

"The caravan where he lived was taken to Germany and analyzed. Tests were done but no DNA evidence was found, nothing was found there," said Gonçalo Amaral.

https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/carrinha-do-suspeito-do-caso-maddie-foi-analisada-mas-nao-encontraram-provas-de-adn?ref=Mais%20Sobre_BlocoMaisSobre
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 22, 2020, 06:36:23 AM
I'm confused. How many vehicles did this guy have?

And which one(s) did he have at the time?



Van used by Madeleine McCann suspect 'was sold for scrap'
THE van used by the suspect in the Madeleine McCann case before she disappeared was sold for scrap, it has been revealed.
By Gerard Couzens
09:14, Sat, Jun 20, 2020 | UPDATED: 09:39, Sat, Jun 20, 2020
It has sparked fears that Portuguese detectives missed vital clues in their hunt for the youngster. The vehicle ended up in an Algarve breaker's yard after reportedly being seized by the authorities after Madeleine's disappearance.
It came as it emerged that Christian B told a Portuguese judge after his 2006 diesel theft arrest that he was a convicted paedophile. The 43-year-old German admitted his sordid past in his initial court quiz after his detention, court papers show.

The suspect had used the blue Bedford van with an Austrian pal in April 2006 to steal diesel from two lorries in Portimao, a half-hour drive from the Praia da Luz resort where the McCanns were staying when their daughter vanished in May 2007.

The files say the vehicle was dismantled after being valued at £90 by a court seeking payment of a fine.

It ended up being crushed in 2009 according to respected Portuguese daily Expresso, which said it was seized seven months after Madeleine vanished, although court papers say it was confiscated before her disappearance and was never returned to the suspect.

His diesel theft accomplice has been identified as drifter Michael Tatschl. They were freed in December 2006 after eight months in prison.

Christian B vanished from a house he was living at in nearby Barrocal, close to the place where he sold a two-tone VW camper van which has been at the centre of the police appeal.

This week it emerged that children's clothing had been found in a 30ft Tiffin Allegro motor home Christian B is said to have driven between Portugal and Germany.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1298611/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-van-sold
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 08:54:43 AM
I'm confused. How many vehicles did this guy have?

And which one(s) did he have at the time?



Van used by Madeleine McCann suspect 'was sold for scrap'
THE van used by the suspect in the Madeleine McCann case before she disappeared was sold for scrap, it has been revealed.
By Gerard Couzens
09:14, Sat, Jun 20, 2020 | UPDATED: 09:39, Sat, Jun 20, 2020
It has sparked fears that Portuguese detectives missed vital clues in their hunt for the youngster. The vehicle ended up in an Algarve breaker's yard after reportedly being seized by the authorities after Madeleine's disappearance.

It came as it emerged that Christian B told a Portuguese judge after his 2006 diesel theft arrest that he was a convicted paedophile. The 43-year-old German admitted his sordid past in his initial court quiz after his detention, court papers show.

The suspect had used the blue Bedford van with an Austrian pal in April 2006 to steal diesel from two lorries in Portimao, a half-hour drive from the Praia da Luz resort where the McCanns were staying when their daughter vanished in May 2007.

The files say the vehicle was dismantled after being valued at £90 by a court seeking payment of a fine.

It ended up being crushed in 2009 according to respected Portuguese daily Expresso, which said it was seized seven months after Madeleine vanished, although court papers say it was confiscated before her disappearance and was never returned to the suspect.

His diesel theft accomplice has been identified as drifter Michael Tatschl. They were freed in December 2006 after eight months in prison.

Christian B vanished from a house he was living at in nearby Barrocal, close to the place where he sold a two-tone VW camper van which has been at the centre of the police appeal.

This week it emerged that children's clothing had been found in a 30ft Tiffin Allegro motor home Christian B is said to have driven between Portugal and Germany.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1298611/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-van-sold

Bit of desperation from the Amaral camp beginning to seep in now as he tries to rewrite history with claims of a very striking one.
Interesting to note his inability to move beyond the lie he made of 2007 and the fact he has been well and truly rumbled.

Snip
But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI on Sunday, he also accused the authorities of altering photos of the two-tone VW camper van Brueckner was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

The former PJ chief, who was removed as head of the Madeleine McCann inquiry in 2008 after criticising British police officers, showed interviewer Jose Alberto Carvalho photos he said were taken in Portugal of the same vehicle.

One of the photos he produced showed a series of very distinctive Minion-style characters painted on the front and back of the camper van, which in the picture put out by police had no markings on it.

He said: 'It's the same vehicle flagged up in the police appeal.

'I think it's important to ask why the photo put out by the authorities of the van was altered. Would that vehicle have gone unnoticed in Praia da Luz with those markings on it? I don't think so.'

Suggesting the van could have looked very different in 2007 to the way it appeared in the photo put out by British police, he added: 'Is it that the German authorities reached the conclusion that the van wasn't like that when it was being driven in Praia da Luz in 2007? Who said that?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445467/Maddie-McCann-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-scapegoat-says-Portuguese-detective.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 22, 2020, 09:15:30 AM
Bit of desperation from the Amaral camp beginning to seep in now as he tries to rewrite history with claims of a very striking one.
Interesting to note his inability to move beyond the lie he made of 2007 and the fact he has been well and truly rumbled.

Snip
But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI on Sunday, he also accused the authorities of altering photos of the two-tone VW camper van Brueckner was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

The former PJ chief, who was removed as head of the Madeleine McCann inquiry in 2008 after criticising British police officers, showed interviewer Jose Alberto Carvalho photos he said were taken in Portugal of the same vehicle.

One of the photos he produced showed a series of very distinctive Minion-style characters painted on the front and back of the camper van, which in the picture put out by police had no markings on it.

He said: 'It's the same vehicle flagged up in the police appeal.

'I think it's important to ask why the photo put out by the authorities of the van was altered. Would that vehicle have gone unnoticed in Praia da Luz with those markings on it? I don't think so.'

Suggesting the van could have looked very different in 2007 to the way it appeared in the photo put out by British police, he added: 'Is it that the German authorities reached the conclusion that the van wasn't like that when it was being driven in Praia da Luz in 2007? Who said that?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445467/Maddie-McCann-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-scapegoat-says-Portuguese-detective.html

Were you there ? which van is it,history will judge who is right or wrong here .

Why haven't the press brought charges yet ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 22, 2020, 09:22:27 AM
Were you there ? which van is it,history will judge who is right or wrong here .

Why haven't the press brought charges yet ?
That's an easy question to answer - they've got very little evidence and what they do have is circumstantial.
The DNA must be a busted flush, as most cold cases now depend on it.
So we have a jail cell witness statement - which in legal terms is almost worthless - hence the requirement to attempt to corroborate it. But the Polizei need to follow up all leads, so let's see what pans out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 09:22:48 AM
Were you there ? which van is it,history will judge who is right or wrong here .

Why haven't the press brought charges yet ?

You read the same information I do - particularly that emanating from Amaral - and appear to be verifying my thinking that ...

"Bit of desperation from the Amaral camp beginning to seep in now as he tries to rewrite history with claims of a very striking one.
Interesting to note his inability to move beyond the lie he made of 2007 and the fact he has been well and truly rumbled."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 22, 2020, 09:26:30 AM
Amaral didn't accuse the parents of knowing what happened in this interview.....whats silencing him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 09:27:10 AM
I'm confused. How many vehicles did this guy have?

And which one(s) did he have at the time?



Van used by Madeleine McCann suspect 'was sold for scrap'
THE van used by the suspect in the Madeleine McCann case before she disappeared was sold for scrap, it has been revealed.
By Gerard Couzens
09:14, Sat, Jun 20, 2020 | UPDATED: 09:39, Sat, Jun 20, 2020
It has sparked fears that Portuguese detectives missed vital clues in their hunt for the youngster. The vehicle ended up in an Algarve breaker's yard after reportedly being seized by the authorities after Madeleine's disappearance.
It came as it emerged that Christian B told a Portuguese judge after his 2006 diesel theft arrest that he was a convicted paedophile. The 43-year-old German admitted his sordid past in his initial court quiz after his detention, court papers show.

The suspect had used the blue Bedford van with an Austrian pal in April 2006 to steal diesel from two lorries in Portimao, a half-hour drive from the Praia da Luz resort where the McCanns were staying when their daughter vanished in May 2007.

The files say the vehicle was dismantled after being valued at £90 by a court seeking payment of a fine.

It ended up being crushed in 2009 according to respected Portuguese daily Expresso, which said it was seized seven months after Madeleine vanished, although court papers say it was confiscated before her disappearance and was never returned to the suspect.

His diesel theft accomplice has been identified as drifter Michael Tatschl. They were freed in December 2006 after eight months in prison.

Christian B vanished from a house he was living at in nearby Barrocal, close to the place where he sold a two-tone VW camper van which has been at the centre of the police appeal.

This week it emerged that children's clothing had been found in a 30ft Tiffin Allegro motor home Christian B is said to have driven between Portugal and Germany.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1298611/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-van-sold

He seems to have had an unlimited supply.

Snip

Mr Tatschl added that he had returned to Praia da Luz in February 2007 to find  Brueckner camping near the town.

He said: 'He was going to raves and I think selling drugs. I stuck around for a bit and then went back to Spain.'

Just weeks after the abduction of Madeleine McCann Brueckner also travelled to Spain where Mr Tatschl was living in Orgiva, Andalucia.

Tatschl said: 'In late May or early June he arrived in Spain with his big American camper van. He knew I had connections to the marijuana world and could help him make money.

'We just thought he was a pervert but didn’t think he liked young children.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445183/I-know-did-Christian-Brueckners-friend-says-German-guilty-taking-Madeleine-McCann.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 22, 2020, 09:32:51 AM
He seems to have had an unlimited supply.

Snip

Mr Tatschl added that he had returned to Praia da Luz in February 2007 to find  Brueckner camping near the town.

He said: 'He was going to raves and I think selling drugs. I stuck around for a bit and then went back to Spain.'

Just weeks after the abduction of Madeleine McCann Brueckner also travelled to Spain where Mr Tatschl was living in Orgiva, Andalucia.

Tatschl said: 'In late May or early June he arrived in Spain with his big American camper van. He knew I had connections to the marijuana world and could help him make money.

'We just thought he was a pervert but didn’t think he liked young children.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8445183/I-know-did-Christian-Brueckners-friend-says-German-guilty-taking-Madeleine-McCann.html
Let's keep it on topic, guys. Thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 09:38:42 AM
Amaral didn't accuse the parents of knowing what happened in this interview.....whats silencing him.

I didn't notice that.  Almost unheard of that he didn't reiterate that slur given the opportunity. He did during his Spanish interview in December 2019 since when we have heard nothing.  In my opinion something has flushed him out into the open and it can only be related to the information coming out about Brueckner and as Misty says is working on rewriting evidential history. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 22, 2020, 10:43:23 AM
I didn't notice that.  Almost unheard of that he didn't reiterate that slur given the opportunity. He did during his Spanish interview in December 2019 since when we have heard nothing.  In my opinion something has flushed him out into the open and it can only be related to the information coming out about Brueckner and as Misty says is working on rewriting evidential history.

Flushed him out ? He’s not BigFoot.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 22, 2020, 10:58:52 AM
Flushed him out ? He’s not BigFoot.

Was he a plod once, all bigfoots they are,allegedly .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 22, 2020, 11:14:46 AM
I didn't notice that.  Almost unheard of that he didn't reiterate that slur given the opportunity. He did during his Spanish interview in December 2019 since when we have heard nothing.  In my opinion something has flushed him out into the open and it can only be related to the information coming out about Brueckner and as Misty says is working on rewriting evidential history.

Oh FGS - cant you see isn't it obvious

They are not fitting him to the crime DNA/evidence - they are trying to fit the crime to him with hearsay circum.

Why is it all being played out publicly they have got their man - but no proof not enough to charge him?

No wonder Scapegoat springs to mind IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 22, 2020, 11:47:34 AM
Oh FGS - cant you see isn't it obvious

They are not fitting him to the crime DNA/evidence - they are trying to fit the crime to him with hearsay circum.

Why is it all being played out publicly they have got their man - but no proof not enough to charge him?

No wonder Scapegoat springs to mind IMO

Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know. The problem is the PJ failed to interview him at the time even though his record of paedophila was known by the court. It may well be this failure by the PJ may make  a prosecution difficult ...we dont know yet
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 22, 2020, 11:52:42 AM
Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know. The problem is the PJ failed to interview him at the time even though his record of paedophila was known by the court. It may well be this failure by the PJ may make  a prosecution difficult ...we dont know yet

What will definitely make a prosecution difficult is the number of potential witnesses selling their stories to the tabloids.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 22, 2020, 11:58:53 AM
Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know. The problem is the PJ failed to interview him at the time even though his record of paedophila was known by the court. It may well be this failure by the PJ may make  a prosecution difficult ...we dont know yet

Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know.


Well, that's exactly my beliefs in reverse - on who I believe was involved.

Bit hypocritical of you though D isn't it - seeing your such a stickler for evidence/proof not what we think.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 22, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know.


Well, that's exactly my beliefs in reverse - on who I believe was involved.

Bit hypocritical of you though D isn't it - seeing your such a stickler for evidence/proof not what we think.




He is a paedo/rapist/burglar/fuel thief who owned lots of vehicles & a memory stick with kid porn on, he lived in PDL & had a phone conversation on 3rd May 07, his friend said that he said that he dunnit.

There's still a complete absence of evidence he ever set foot in G5a but we'll just ignore that minor detail as it's completely irrelevant.

He's guilty, string him up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 22, 2020, 12:08:14 PM
Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know. The problem is the PJ failed to interview him at the time even though his record of paedophila was known by the court. It may well be this failure by the PJ may make  a prosecution difficult ...we dont know yet

I thought he was interviewed but dismissed?

It is said at the time of the fuel theft he volunteered his previous in Germany.  Assuming this is true why fess up?  Maybe he thought he would get caught out if he didn't fess up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 22, 2020, 12:14:43 PM
What will definitely make a prosecution difficult is the number of potential witnesses selling their stories to the tabloids.

A complete contrast with how guarded Neil Basu was when he gave the press conference re Reading and warning everyone not to speculate so as not to interfere with justice.

CB could potentially sue for thousands if not millions if there's nothing on him. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 22, 2020, 12:18:08 PM
What will definitely make a prosecution difficult is the number of potential witnesses selling their stories to the tabloids.

What about if the lead detective wrote a book on the case so far... Do you think that would help
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 22, 2020, 12:20:01 PM
Oh FGS - cant you see isn't it obvious

They are not fitting him to the crime DNA/evidence - they are trying to fit the crime to him with hearsay circum.

Why is it all being played out publicly they have got their man - but no proof not enough to charge him?

No wonder Scapegoat springs to mind IMO

None of it rings true imo. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 22, 2020, 12:20:22 PM
Whats obvious to me is that he is almost certainly guilty based on what we already know.


Well, that's exactly my beliefs in reverse - on who I believe was involved.

Bit hypocritical of you though D isn't it - seeing your such a stickler for evidence/proof not what we think.

I've looked at the evidence Re him and the evidence Re the parents..

Parents 99.9999999999 not involved... CB  99 % involved..
All based on evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 22, 2020, 12:25:23 PM
I've looked at the evidence Re him and the evidence Re the parents..

Parents 99.9999999999 not involved... CB  99 % involved..
All based on evidence

What's the missing 1%?

Him ever setting foot in G5a I suppose.

Just a minor detail. 

Maybe he just stood outside & teleported Maddie through the window.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 12:33:26 PM
Oh FGS - cant you see isn't it obvious

They are not fitting him to the crime DNA/evidence - they are trying to fit the crime to him with hearsay circum.

Why is it all being played out publicly they have got their man - but no proof not enough to charge him?

No wonder Scapegoat springs to mind IMO

I've been saying for years that Amaral tried to twist the evidence to suit what he thought was the crime.

It isn't very nice is it ... but good to see you have finally caught up with me there.

The only difference I can see is that Madeleine's parents are law abiding folk who were set up by Amaral and Cristovao in the press without evidence or proof ... whereas Brueckner is a time served and presently serving criminal with quite a long rap sheet.

Brueckner is a burglar and a paedophile who was active in Luz and whose phone places him there on the night Madeleine was lifted.  It now appears from what he is saying that Amaral knew about this at the time ???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 22, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
I've been saying for years that Amaral tried to twist the evidence to suit what he thought was the crime.

It isn't very nice is it ... but good to see you have finally caught up with me there.

The only difference I can see is that Madeleine's parents are law abiding folk who were set up by Amaral and Cristovao in the press without evidence or proof ... whereas Brueckner is a time served and presently serving criminal with quite a long rap sheet.

Brueckner is a burglar and a paedophile who was active in Luz and whose phone places him there on the night Madeleine was lifted.  It now appears from what he is saying that Amaral knew about this at the time ???

* Disappeared.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
A complete contrast with how guarded Neil Basu was when he gave the press conference re Reading and warning everyone not to speculate so as not to interfere with justice.

CB could potentially sue for thousands if not millions if there's nothing on him.

Murat and the McCann's successfully sued.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 22, 2020, 12:47:12 PM
What about if the lead detective wrote a book on the case so far... Do you think that would help

An excellent observation.  Certainly a fact which is being blissfully overlooked by those who have widely Applauded Amaral et al holding kangaroo courts on Madeleine's parents with little thought to anything but when the next cheque from media appearances etc was due to bounce off the doormat.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 22, 2020, 12:50:40 PM
Absolutely no one! And the claims they make about being left to look for their daughter alone are such horrible lies.
 They couldn't go look for their daughter -too busy jogging,blogging, gaining celebrity status  way too busy dahlings..

I have no empathy for the parents due to the one fact we do not know what happened to Maddie and if the parents were involved or not.

I agree with Kizzy. Madeleine is our concern -not the parents feelings.


Give it a rest!!   Where were they supposed to go looking for Madeleine?  Come on tell us.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 22, 2020, 12:53:32 PM

Give it a rest!!   Where were they supposed to go looking for Madeleine?  Come on tell us.

Where they left her, IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 22, 2020, 01:05:19 PM
A complete contrast with how guarded Neil Basu was when he gave the press conference re Reading and warning everyone not to speculate so as not to interfere with justice.

CB could potentially sue for thousands if not millions if there's nothing on him.

I very much doubt he could sue for anything so far said..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 22, 2020, 01:14:36 PM
Where they left her, IMO


You're going all mystic again,  give your crystal ball a shake.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 22, 2020, 01:49:26 PM
I've looked at the evidence Re him and the evidence Re the parents..

Parents 99.9999999999 not involved... CB  99 % involved..
All based on evidence

Only in your head -  only in your opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 22, 2020, 05:35:33 PM
What about if the lead detective wrote a book on the case so far... Do you think that would help

That would only come into play if the parents were charged.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 22, 2020, 05:37:15 PM
Only in your head -  only in your opinion

Of course it's my opinion but it fits with what's happening  now
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 22, 2020, 06:27:35 PM
A complete contrast with how guarded Neil Basu was when he gave the press conference re Reading and warning everyone not to speculate so as not to interfere with justice.

CB could potentially sue for thousands if not millions if there's nothing on him.
He’s a rapist and burglar and paedophile, what could he sue for?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on June 22, 2020, 06:54:56 PM
He’s a rapist and burglar and paedophile, what could he sue for?
Bringing his name into disrepute.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 22, 2020, 06:55:28 PM
Bringing his name into disrepute.  @)(++(*
Yes, I’m sure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 22, 2020, 09:29:54 PM
An example of Amaral’s blatant lying, from his recent TV interview

“GA:… around 10 pm and what these people say is what the whole world knows, that who… was later, who could… came to that conclusion that the person who was transporting that child was the person who was coming down from, from a certain plane, on a certain date with a son in his arms in England, who was the father of the girl… Madeleine. So, they didn't say he was similar, they said 80 or almost 90% it was Maddie's father. By the way of walking, by the structure, and so on ...”

Or put it another way they were 60% or almost 50/50 it was Maddie’s father.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 08:39:44 AM
I notice Amaral corrected the interviewer on the subject of his position in the first investigation;

Gonçalo Amaral was the chief, chief inspector of the delegation… of the directorate of Portimão...

GA: Coordinator of the investigation ...
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-jornal-das-8-tvi-june-21.html#more

It's hard to understand why even in Portugal they don't understand what Amaral's position was. Even I know that Encarnacao was the head man of Portimao and the one in charge of the investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 23, 2020, 09:01:18 AM
An example of Amaral’s blatant lying, from his recent TV interview

“GA:… around 10 pm and what these people say is what the whole world knows, that who… was later, who could… came to that conclusion that the person who was transporting that child was the person who was coming down from, from a certain plane, on a certain date with a son in his arms in England, who was the father of the girl… Madeleine. So, they didn't say he was similar, they said 80 or almost 90% it was Maddie's father. By the way of walking, by the structure, and so on ...”

Or put it another way they were 60% or almost 50/50 it was Maddie’s father.

Presumably there is a kosha translation for that,cite please.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 09:32:48 AM
Presumably there is a kosha translation for that,cite please.

As I'm constantly criticised... It's kosher
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 10:01:12 AM
Seems GA has not been as quiet as some posters think.

Amaral has made numerous appearances on television since the emergence of Christian B as a suspect in the McCann case.


He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Goncalo Amaral Ex-Maddie Cop




He told a Portuguese TV interviewer last night: “When I spoke last year I was talking about the situation that’s happening now.

“It matters little who the paedophile is.”

He added: “He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Asked if he believed Christian B was the man responsible for Madeleine’s disappearance, he added: “To answer that question it has to be proven first that an abduction took place.”

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11930166/madeleine-mccann-cops-suspect-missed/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 10:09:30 AM
Seems GA has not been as quiet as some posters think.

Amaral has made numerous appearances on television since the emergence of Christian B as a suspect in the McCann case.


He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Goncalo Amaral Ex-Maddie Cop




He told a Portuguese TV interviewer last night: “When I spoke last year I was talking about the situation that’s happening now.

“It matters little who the paedophile is.”

He added: “He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Asked if he believed Christian B was the man responsible for Madeleine’s disappearance, he added: “To answer that question it has to be proven first that an abduction took place.”

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11930166/madeleine-mccann-cops-suspect-missed/

Ha ha yes. A suspect has been found for an abduction, but the abduction is a long way from being a fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2020, 11:04:16 AM
Seems GA has not been as quiet as some posters think.

Amaral has made numerous appearances on television since the emergence of Christian B as a suspect in the McCann case.


He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Goncalo Amaral Ex-Maddie Cop




He told a Portuguese TV interviewer last night: “When I spoke last year I was talking about the situation that’s happening now.

“It matters little who the paedophile is.”

He added: “He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Asked if he believed Christian B was the man responsible for Madeleine’s disappearance, he added: “To answer that question it has to be proven first that an abduction took place.”

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11930166/madeleine-mccann-cops-suspect-missed/


A perfect suspect he missed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 11:11:36 AM

A perfect suspect he missed.

yES - depending on what you believe ...... abduction or no abduction I suppose.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 11:11:44 AM

A perfect suspect he missed.

A suspect right on his doorstep but who wasn't in when the police called ... but why bother investigating real criminals when you've already made your mind up as Amaral confirms he had in his book.  Or is that just another of his lies?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 11:17:19 AM
yES - depending on what you believe ...... abduction or no abduction I suppose.

I'm going by what the British police and the Portuguese police believe now aided and abetted by the German police.  I think that outranks a disgraced ex-cop, and a rump of internet theorists.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 11:19:53 AM

A perfect suspect he missed.

I think Amaral means a perfect fall guy. That's why he mentions death; the perfect candidate to blame would be dead as well as suspicious. Perhaps he's read about SY's solution to the Ben Needham disappearance. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2020, 11:20:09 AM
I wonder if anyone has a photo of him wearing a maroon top with a white circle on the back.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 11:21:23 AM
I'm going by what the British police and the Portuguese police believe now aided and abetted by the German police.  I think that outranks a disgraced ex-cop, and a rump of internet theorists.

According to the German police the PJ still think that the parents were involved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 11:21:53 AM
I'm going by what the British police and the Portuguese police believe now aided and abetted by the German police.  I think that outranks a disgraced ex-cop, and a rump of internet theorists.

You may well be mistaken about the Portuguese police's beliefs, according to some reports.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2020, 11:24:01 AM
I think Amaral means a perfect fall guy. That's why he mentions death; the perfect candidate to blame would be dead as well as suspicious. Perhaps he's read about SY's solution to the Ben Needham disappearance.

I know what he means.   He's trying to make out all the Police forces are going to put the blame on this Christian B that he is a scapegoat it would be perfect if he was dead.   Trouble is,  a mate has told the Police that the suspect had confessed to taking Madeleine.   He lived near to the Ocean Club resort,  he received a phone call in the vicinity of the Ocean Club the day Madeleine disappeared and he matches the description of a man snooping around 5a.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 11:32:19 AM
You may well be mistaken about the Portuguese police's beliefs, according to some reports.

Snap.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 11:34:18 AM
I know what he means.   He's trying to make out all the Police forces are going to put the blame on this Christian B that he is a scapegoat it would be perfect if he was dead.   Trouble is,  a mate has told the Police that the suspect had confessed to taking Madeleine.   He lived near to the Ocean Club resort,  he received a phone call in the vicinity of the Ocean Club the day Madeleine disappeared and he matches the description of a man snooping around 5a.

The ‘mate’ has 20,000 reasons to do so. A bit of an incentive I’m sure you’ll agree.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 11:38:08 AM
I know what he means.   He's trying to make out all the Police forces are going to put the blame on this Christian B that he is a scapegoat it would be perfect if he was dead.   Trouble is,  a mate has told the Police that the suspect had confessed to taking Madeleine.   He lived near to the Ocean Club resort,  he received a phone call in the vicinity of the Ocean Club the day Madeleine disappeared and he matches the description of a man snooping around 5a.

I thought this man was living in a camper van when Madeleine disappeared? It is alleged that he was phoned in the PdL area on 3rd May, it was'nt possible to say he was near the Ocean Club. I have seen nothing suggesting he matched any descriptions, except on the internet.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 11:39:17 AM
yES - depending on what you believe ...... abduction or no abduction I suppose.

You may have noticed amaral did not accuse the parents.. He seems to have been silenced. It's also admitted his team didn't interview CB...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 11:43:41 AM
I know what he means.   He's trying to make out all the Police forces are going to put the blame on this Christian B that he is a scapegoat it would be perfect if he was dead.   Trouble is,  a mate has told the Police that the suspect had confessed to taking Madeleine.   He lived near to the Ocean Club resort,  he received a phone call in the vicinity of the Ocean Club the day Madeleine disappeared and he matches the description of a man snooping around 5a.



Yes as Faith said 20.000 reasons - they say money talks and seemed it has made him talk after ten years is it he has kept it to himself.

So what sort of person does that make him - not very reliable IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 11:44:30 AM
You may well be mistaken about the Portuguese police's beliefs, according to some reports.

Tabloid reports ?  Someone 'close to the investigation' reports ?  Bring it on till we have a good laugh.

Never mind then according to you the Portuguese have again abrogated their responsibility ... if so ... at least two reliable police forces are investigating Madeleine's abduction one of which would like to find sufficient evidence to charge their Prime Suspect.

I don't think you realise how you insult the mainstream Policia Judiciaria when you promote tittle tattle which suggests they are less motivated to solve Madeleine's case when compared to others.  Sad, really.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 11:53:41 AM
Tabloid reports ?  Someone 'close to the investigation' reports ?  Bring it on till we have a good laugh.

Never mind then according to you the Portuguese have again abrogated their responsibility ... if so ... at least two reliable police forces are investigating Madeleine's abduction one of which would like to find sufficient evidence to charge their Prime Suspect.

I don't think you realise how you insult the mainstream Policia Judiciaria when you promote tittle tattle which suggests they are less motivated to solve Madeleine's case when compared to others.  Sad, really.

Seems to me the PJ are very motivated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 11:59:35 AM
Tabloid reports ?  Someone 'close to the investigation' reports ?  Bring it on till we have a good laugh.

Never mind then according to you the Portuguese have again abrogated their responsibility ... if so ... at least two reliable police forces are investigating Madeleine's abduction one of which would like to find sufficient evidence to charge their Prime Suspect.

I don't think you realise how you insult the mainstream Policia Judiciaria when you promote tittle tattle which suggests they are less motivated to solve Madeleine's case when compared to others.  Sad, really.

I don't think I'm the only one quoting tabloid reports, but I can quote do Carmo who said in 2017 that the PJ didn't know what crime had been committed.

I'm not accusing the PJ of being less motivated to solve the case, I'm pointing out that they're not necessarily investigating an abduction and nothing else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 12:05:55 PM
I don't think I'm the only one quoting tabloid reports, but I can quote do Carmo who said in 2017 that the PJ didn't know what crime had been committed.

I'm not accusing the PJ of being less motivated to solve the case, I'm pointing out that they're not necessarily investigating an abduction and nothing else.

He also said the parents were not suspects and there was no evidence against them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 12:15:26 PM
He also said the parents were not suspects and there was no evidence against them

He wasn't prepared to speculate, in other words; which was wise as he had no evidence to base it on. Rowley went further and tried to suggest that Madeleine must have been abducted because she was too young to run away and start a new life.  @)(++(* As if that was the only evidence required to assume an abduction happened. If it was then every disappearing child could be assumed to have been abducted.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 12:16:15 PM
A suspect right on his doorstep but who wasn't in when the police called ... but why bother investigating real criminals when you've already made your mind up as Amaral confirms he had in his book.  Or is that just another of his lies?


No IMO he believes there was a suspect right on the doorstep - it seems he hasn't changed his mind either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 12:16:49 PM
He wasn't prepared to speculate, in other words; which was wise as he had no evidence to base it on. Rowley went further and tried to suggest that Madeleine must have been abducted because she was too young to run away and start a new life.  @)(++(* As if that was the only evidence required to assume an abduction happened. If it was then every disappearing child could be assumed to have been abducted.  @)(++(*

i think you misunderstand what Rowley said...I find your emojis quite childish
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 12:21:12 PM
i think you misunderstand what Rowley said...I find your emojis quite childish

I think not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 12:24:08 PM
I think not.
Rowley is a Cambridge graduate...he went to the same school I did...he seems to follow the same thought processes I do you seem to want to portray him as a fool...he isnt
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 12:27:06 PM
Rowley is a Cambridge graduate...he went to the same school I did...he seems to follow the same thought processes I do you seem to want to portray him as a fool...he isnt

You really are the gift that keeps giving. Comedy gold.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 12:31:59 PM
He wasn't prepared to speculate, in other words; which was wise as he had no evidence to base it on. Rowley went further and tried to suggest that Madeleine must have been abducted because she was too young to run away and start a new life.  @)(++(* As if that was the only evidence required to assume an abduction happened. If it was then every disappearing child could be assumed to have been abducted.  @)(++(*

I can see he was dithering quite a bit when he said ...

''But what I can say,

just as I did back in 2011

and 2013,

is that Maddie's parents are not suspects.

That statement remains:

the parents are not suspects. Full stop.''  Pedro Do Carmo 2017
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 12:36:36 PM

No IMO he believes there was a suspect right on the doorstep - it seems he hasn't changed his mind either.

Quite frankly I don't know what Amaral believes and I care even less.  However if he cannot see the maelstrom bursting up around him now he is a far greater fool than I took him to be.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2020, 12:38:36 PM
I thought this man was living in a camper van when Madeleine disappeared? It is alleged that he was phoned in the PdL area on 3rd May, it was'nt possible to say he was near the Ocean Club. I have seen nothing suggesting he matched any descriptions, except on the internet.


Officers from the BKA, Germany's federal police, obtained the number for a mobile phone that Brueckner had in 2007, but it was only when they cross-referenced it with data compiled by Scotland Yard from phone masts around Praia da Luz that they could place the 43-year-old near the Ocean Club from where Madeleine was taken.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 12:40:36 PM
Rowley is a Cambridge graduate...he went to the same school I did...he seems to follow the same thought processes I do you seem to want to portray him as a fool...he isnt

Do you think only fools say foolish things?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 23, 2020, 12:46:22 PM
I thought this man was living in a camper van when Madeleine disappeared? It is alleged that he was phoned in the PdL area on 3rd May, it was'nt possible to say he was near the Ocean Club. I have seen nothing suggesting he matched any descriptions, except on the internet.


New photos and details about German paedophile ”Christian B” match the description of a mystery man spotted nearby at least four times.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 12:55:51 PM

Officers from the BKA, Germany's federal police, obtained the number for a mobile phone that Brueckner had in 2007, but it was only when they cross-referenced it with data compiled by Scotland Yard from phone masts around Praia da Luz that they could place the 43-year-old near the Ocean Club from where Madeleine was taken.

Around Praia da Luz is correct, near the Ocean Club doesn't follow. The Luz parish Optimus towers have a 5-8km radius, for example.

(https://h42a.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/russ1.jpg) 
https://h42a.wordpress.com/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 12:57:32 PM

New photos and details about German paedophile ”Christian B” match the description of a mystery man spotted nearby at least four times.

Has this been confirmed by the investigators or is it just internet speculation?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 01:12:15 PM
Do you think only fools say foolish things?

Its your interpretation of it thats foolish imo. Hes making the point that abduction really is the most probable option.
Hes beeng a little sarcastic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 01:19:57 PM
Around Praia da Luz is correct, near the Ocean Club doesn't follow. The Luz parish Optimus towers have a 5-8km radius, for example.

(https://h42a.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/russ1.jpg) 
https://h42a.wordpress.com/

So you are saying the British experts went to all that trouble for worthless information.  What a pity 😢😢
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 01:24:00 PM

Officers from the BKA, Germany's federal police, obtained the number for a mobile phone that Brueckner had in 2007, but it was only when they cross-referenced it with data compiled by Scotland Yard from phone masts around Praia da Luz that they could place the 43-year-old near the Ocean Club from where Madeleine was taken.

It puts the mobile there not the 43-year-old this has been gone through before.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 01:28:39 PM
It puts the mobile there not the 43-year-old this has been gone through before.

Not according to G-unit it doesn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 01:30:21 PM
Around Praia da Luz is correct, near the Ocean Club doesn't follow. The Luz parish Optimus towers have a 5-8km radius, for example.

(https://h42a.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/russ1.jpg) 
https://h42a.wordpress.com/

As I understand its where those two green circles overlap thats important
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 23, 2020, 01:32:02 PM
I can see he was dithering quite a bit when he said ...

''But what I can say,

just as I did back in 2011

and 2013,

is that Maddie's parents are not suspects.

That statement remains:

the parents are not suspects. Full stop.''  Pedro Do Carmo 2017

They are not suspects in Portugal. They are also not cleared so can be suspects again!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2020, 01:36:39 PM
They are not suspects in Portugal. They are also not cleared so can be suspects again!

Please provide an official cite confirming that.  If you can't please don't expect it to stand.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 02:12:06 PM
Its your interpretation of it thats foolish imo. Hes making the point that abduction really is the most probable option.
Hes beeng a little sarcastic.

He's offering a strawman argument imo. Nobody ever thought, suggested or considered that Madeleine decided to set off and start a new life, so there was no need to introduce and dismiss that thought at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 02:17:14 PM
They are not suspects in Portugal. They are also not cleared so can be suspects again!

I believe that the Supreme Court made that particularly clear.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 02:18:01 PM
Quite frankly I don't know what Amaral believes and I care even less.  However if he cannot see the maelstrom bursting up around him now he is a far greater fool than I took him to be.

 @)(++(* Do you think it will bother GA what you think B - quite frankly my dear he won't give a damn IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 02:23:03 PM
I believe that the Supreme Court made that particularly clear.

I seem to remember gunit providing us with the fiures re referral to the ECHR and the SC in portugal got it wrong in 96% of the cases heard
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 23, 2020, 03:44:06 PM
I seem to remember gunit providing us with the fiures re referral to the ECHR and the SC in portugal got it wrong in 96% of the cases heard

And,he still won his appeals.

I see a case from around the same time has had a response back in Jan 2019,obviously no hurry.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 04:08:39 PM
And,he still won his appeals.

I see a case from around the same time has had a response back in Jan 2019,obviously no hurry.

Maybe something going on behind the scenes... Would explain amarals lack of accusations in his recent interview
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 23, 2020, 04:26:03 PM
Presumably there is a kosha translation for that,cite please.
What would you accept as kosher?  A translation by Joana Morais?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 23, 2020, 04:28:53 PM
He wasn't prepared to speculate, in other words; which was wise as he had no evidence to base it on. Rowley went further and tried to suggest that Madeleine must have been abducted because she was too young to run away and start a new life.  @)(++(* As if that was the only evidence required to assume an abduction happened. If it was then every disappearing child could be assumed to have been abducted.  @)(++(*
Eh?  Some children DO run away from home, Andrew Gosden for one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2020, 04:29:59 PM
I seem to remember gunit providing us with the fiures re referral to the ECHR and the SC in portugal got it wrong in 96% of the cases heard

Do you have a link ?

( Let me save you the bother.....it was G-Unit that posted the information...if you want to verify it ask her )

For once own the information you post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 04:30:44 PM
Maybe something going on behind the scenes... Would explain amarals lack of accusations in his recent interview

Well, I believe he was doubting the abduction as not proven - so say no more...... than he has too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 04:38:19 PM
Well, I believe he was doubting the abduction as not proven - so say no more...... than he has too.
He didn't mention any accidents and cover ups
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 04:50:32 PM
He didn't mention any accidents and cover ups


Didn't have to if he doesn't believe the abduction - we know the rest FGS
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 05:08:09 PM
He didn't mention any accidents and cover ups

Seems he is not too impressed with the present investigation and imo he is right.

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.


The former PJ chief, showed interviewer Jose Alberto Carvalho photos he said were taken in Portugal of the same vehicle.

One of the photos he produced showed a series of very distinctive Minion-style characters painted on the front and back of the camper van, which in the picture put out by police had no markings on it.

He said: “It’s the same vehicle flagged up in the police appeal.

“I think it’s important to ask why the photo put out by the authorities of the van was altered.

“Would that vehicle have gone unnoticed in Praia da Luz with those markings on it? I don’t think so.”

He went on to say any appeal focused on the van from the official photos without the distinctive markings would be a waste of time.




He accuses the mccs and tapas 7 of lying as well - so make of that what you will.


He has repeated his well-known criticism of the Brit youngster’s parents and their “Tapas Seven” holiday pals.

Amaral accused them of abandoning their children to eat out at night and lying to Portuguese police, and said Madeleine had been crying the night before she vanished on May 3, 2007.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 05:19:12 PM
Seems he is not too impressed with the present investigation and imo he is right.

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.


The former PJ chief, showed interviewer Jose Alberto Carvalho photos he said were taken in Portugal of the same vehicle.

One of the photos he produced showed a series of very distinctive Minion-style characters painted on the front and back of the camper van, which in the picture put out by police had no markings on it.

He said: “It’s the same vehicle flagged up in the police appeal.

“I think it’s important to ask why the photo put out by the authorities of the van was altered.

“Would that vehicle have gone unnoticed in Praia da Luz with those markings on it? I don’t think so.”

He went on to say any appeal focused on the van from the official photos without the distinctive markings would be a waste of time.




He accuses the mccs and tapas 7 of lying as well - so make of that what you will.


He has repeated his well-known criticism of the Brit youngster’s parents and their “Tapas Seven” holiday pals.

Amaral accused them of abandoning their children to eat out at night and lying to Portuguese police, and said Madeleine had been crying the night before she vanished on May 3, 2007.

he was sacked from the invstigation....convicted of lying..lied to the press...Sandra F....hes referred to in the uk press as didcredited.. disgraced....and hes yesterdays man
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 23, 2020, 05:21:17 PM
he was sacked from the invstigation....convicted of lying..lied to the press...Sandra F....hes referred to in the uk press as didcredited.. disgraced....and hes yesterdays man
He even lied in the interview and claimed that the Smiths were up to 90% sure the man they saw was Gerry. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on June 23, 2020, 05:32:04 PM
What happened to the VW Campervan once the PJ had finished with it?  Was it sold on to a car dealer who had Brueckner's kiddy-magnet graffiti sprayed over or removed with T-cut to prepare for reselling, before it eventually ended up in the German BKA's possession?...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 05:44:02 PM
he was sacked from the invstigation....convicted of lying..lied to the press...Sandra F....hes referred to in the uk press as didcredited.. disgraced....and hes yesterdays man


Yesterday's man - I don't think so you bring him up every opportunity you can.

He was mentioned yesterday and today and will be again tomorrow.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 23, 2020, 05:54:02 PM

Yesterday's man - I don't think so you bring him up every opportunity you can.

He was mentioned yesterday and today and will be again tomorrow.
What does he do for a living, apart from TV interviews slagging off Madeleine’s parents and sneering at the investigation into her disappearance? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 23, 2020, 05:56:22 PM

Yesterday's man - I don't think so you bring him up every opportunity you can.

He was mentioned yesterday and today and will be again tomorrow.

Yesterdays man re the investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 23, 2020, 06:03:01 PM
What does he do for a living, apart from TV interviews slagging off Madeleine’s parents and sneering at the investigation into her disappearance?

What does he do for a living - why should that interest you.VS
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 23, 2020, 06:58:12 PM
What does he do for a living - why should that interest you.VS
It was a rhetorical question, I really couldn’t care less what the ghastly man gets up to, I expect very little apart from renting his gob out every time this case appears in the news.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 23, 2020, 07:29:37 PM
It was a rhetorical question, I really couldn’t care less what the ghastly man gets up to, I expect very little apart from renting his gob out every time this case appears in the news.

Surely you remember he's retired? Does he get paid for appearing on TV or are you just mud-slinging?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 23, 2020, 07:30:49 PM
I believe that the Supreme Court made that particularly clear.

Yes they certainly did! When the McCanns go to court the truth comes out. The same happened with LP. Not cleared!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 23, 2020, 08:20:20 PM
Surely you remember he's retired? Does he get paid for appearing on TV or are you just mud-slinging?
Oh is it mudslinging to suggest people are being paid for talking to the media? Then I guess you’re guilty of the same thing on another thread - lol.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 24, 2020, 09:02:10 AM
Seems he is not too impressed with the present investigation and imo he is right.

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.


The former PJ chief, showed interviewer Jose Alberto Carvalho photos he said were taken in Portugal of the same vehicle.

One of the photos he produced showed a series of very distinctive Minion-style characters painted on the front and back of the camper van, which in the picture put out by police had no markings on it.

He said: “It’s the same vehicle flagged up in the police appeal.

“I think it’s important to ask why the photo put out by the authorities of the van was altered.

“Would that vehicle have gone unnoticed in Praia da Luz with those markings on it? I don’t think so.”

He went on to say any appeal focused on the van from the official photos without the distinctive markings would be a waste of time.




He accuses the mccs and tapas 7 of lying as well - so make of that what you will.


He has repeated his well-known criticism of the Brit youngster’s parents and their “Tapas Seven” holiday pals.

Amaral accused them of abandoning their children to eat out at night and lying to Portuguese police, and said Madeleine had been crying the night before she vanished on May 3, 2007.



So Amaral has photo's of the van with the pictures on the back.   How?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 09:09:50 AM

So Amaral has photo's of the van with the pictures on the back.   How?

Closer than some would like to the investigation? or maybe they are out there somewhere.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 24, 2020, 09:38:03 AM
Closer than some would like to the investigation? or maybe they are out there somewhere.

If they are out there somewhere,  how come the German Police didn't have it?   Why has Amaral got hold of it and when.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 10:17:01 AM

So Amaral has photo's of the van with the pictures on the back.   How?


Think you should be more concerned about why they were altered.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 24, 2020, 10:40:16 AM

Think you should be more concerned about why they were altered.

Who is alleged to have altered them ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 10:41:16 AM
If they are out there somewhere,  how come the German Police didn't have it?   Why has Amaral got hold of it and when.

The Germans aren't as clever has you would like to think,thats why the named unnamed German remains free of charge on the Madeleine case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 10:42:22 AM
Who is alleged to have altered them ?

Think you should be more concerned about why they were altered.

Different vehicles? or why the different look.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 10:50:48 AM
Who is alleged to have altered them ?


But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11930166/madeleine-mccann-cops-suspect-missed/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 24, 2020, 11:56:51 AM

So Amaral has photo's of the van with the pictures on the back.   How?
Amaral seems to have a finger in more pies than one ...

Snip
Portuguese detectives who probed the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been left facing tough questions after it emerged they identified the German paedophile who is now the chief suspect in 2007 - but 'discarded' him.

Goncalo Amaral, the man who led the investigation, confirmed in April last year that 'a German paedophile currently in jail in Germany' - now named as Christian Brueckner - was identified 13 years ago as a potential suspect.
                                  (https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/05/21/29214814-8393059-Goncalo_Amaral_the_Portuguese_ex_investigator_who_was_in_charge_-a-12_1591388312511.jpg)
But Amaral, who was sacked after naming Kate and Jerry as suspects in the disappearance and maintains they were responsible, said Brueckner was 'discarded' after detectives 'found nothing to suggest he took Madeleine'.

That is despite revelations today that Brueckner had a lengthy criminal record including burglary and child sex crimes, lived in a property just three miles from where Maddie went missing, and can be placed in the area on the night in question using mobile phone records.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8393059/Met-sources-blast-lacklustre-approach-Portuguese-colleagues-Madeleine-McCann-breakthrough.html?fbclid=IwAR3pBhHTxph6Gl__Z141nujPsRD53uJamZ0ls-xVgKnpPUhQouNhZKdWckc
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 12:28:24 PM
Amaral seems to have a finger in more pies than one ...

Snip
Portuguese detectives who probed the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been left facing tough questions after it emerged they identified the German paedophile who is now the chief suspect in 2007 - but 'discarded' him.

Goncalo Amaral, the man who led the investigation, confirmed in April last year that 'a German paedophile currently in jail in Germany' - now named as Christian Brueckner - was identified 13 years ago as a potential suspect.
                                  (https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/05/21/29214814-8393059-Goncalo_Amaral_the_Portuguese_ex_investigator_who_was_in_charge_-a-12_1591388312511.jpg)
But Amaral, who was sacked after naming Kate and Jerry as suspects in the disappearance and maintains they were responsible, said Brueckner was 'discarded' after detectives 'found nothing to suggest he took Madeleine'.

That is despite revelations today that Brueckner had a lengthy criminal record including burglary and child sex crimes, lived in a property just three miles from where Maddie went missing, and can be placed in the area on the night in question using mobile phone records.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8393059/Met-sources-blast-lacklustre-approach-Portuguese-colleagues-Madeleine-McCann-breakthrough.html?fbclid=IwAR3pBhHTxph6Gl__Z141nujPsRD53uJamZ0ls-xVgKnpPUhQouNhZKdWckc


Well, GA said there would be a german suspect used as a scapegoat.

The case will be closed, with this suspect and.

He’s an almost perfect suspect. All that’s missing for him to become the perfect suspect is for him to be dead.”

Goncalo Amaral Ex-Maddie Cop



So we will have to see if its as cut and dried as it is now looking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2020, 12:31:29 PM

But during his half-hour-long interview with Portuguese broadcaster TVI, he also insinuated the German authorities had altered photos of the two-tone VW camper van Christian B was using around the time Madeleine disappeared.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11930166/madeleine-mccann-cops-suspect-missed/

did it ever occur to amaarl the pictres may have been added or removed. Where have these pictures come from...it would be interesting to know that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 24, 2020, 12:36:54 PM
I'm confused. Easily done.

Was this guy thoroughly investigated at the time or not?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2020, 12:39:54 PM
I'm confused. Easily done.

Was this guy thoroughly investigated at the time or not?

not according to waht is in the press...no interview in the files
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 12:41:53 PM
did it ever occur to amaarl the pictres may have been added or removed. Where have these pictures come from...it would be interesting to know that


I'll ask him, shall I....  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2020, 12:43:34 PM

I'll ask him, shall I....  @)(++(*

I find your post quite childish...not really sure if its worth discussing anything with you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 24, 2020, 12:50:36 PM
I'm confused. Easily done.

Was this guy thoroughly investigated at the time or not?

I'm fairly sure that he was looked at both by PJ and Grange.
Whether they were thorough is something else altogether.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2020, 01:02:12 PM
I'm fairly sure that he was looked at both by PJ and Grange.
Whether they were thorough is something else altogether.

I havent seem any evidence he was looked at by the PJ or Grange. As the PJ did not record his paedophile record even though it was admitted in court...he would not have been a person of interest
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 24, 2020, 01:07:50 PM
I havent seem any evidence he was looked at by the PJ or Grange. As the PJ did not record his paedophile record even though it was admitted in court...he would not have been a person of interest


The Metropolitan Police admitted that Brueckner had been among 600 people previously considered potentially significant in the McCann inquiry.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-christian-brueckner-inga-gehricke-missing-suspect-germany-prison-update-a9551421.html



British police failed to identify Christian Brückner as the prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, a senior Portuguese police officer has alleged.

Carlos Farinha, deputy director of the Policia Judiciaria says that Brückner's name was handed over to the Metropolitan Police in 2012, but they never requested any information on the serial sex offender.

The failings of British, Portuguese and German authorities to pursue the convicted paedophile were laid bare yesterday, as the Met confirmed that Brückner had formed part of their longstanding investigation, but he had not been treated as a suspect until 2017.

On Thursday, it emerged that Portuguese police had investigated Brückner in the aftermath of Madeleine’s disappearance, but no further action was taken....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/06/british-authorities-failed-identify-madeleine-mccann-suspect/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2020, 01:08:51 PM

The Metropolitan Police admitted that Brueckner had been among 600 people previously considered potentially significant in the McCann inquiry.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-christian-brueckner-inga-gehricke-missing-suspect-germany-prison-update-a9551421.html

was his paedophile history disclosed to them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 01:09:11 PM
I'm fairly sure that he was looked at both by PJ and Grange.
Whether they were thorough is something else altogether.

600 person's looked at wasn't the figure reportedly to have been, thoroughly bad form of Grange not to have done so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 01:36:35 PM
I find your post quite childish...not really sure if its worth discussing anything with you

Don't then - your opinion means very little to may anyway D
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 24, 2020, 01:37:38 PM
I'm fairly sure that he was looked at both by PJ and Grange.
Whether they were thorough is something else altogether.

Grange would be as thorough as the information emanating from Portuguese colleagues allowed them to be.  If the Judicial Police had allegedly discarded him after interview - perhaps as a petty fuel thief with no record of burglary or paedophilia despite him confessing to having one apparently - why do you expect Scotland Yard would second guess that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 02:20:22 PM
Grange would be as thorough as the information emanating from Portuguese colleagues allowed them to be.  If the Judicial Police had allegedly discarded him after interview - perhaps as a petty fuel thief with no record of burglary or paedophilia despite him confessing to having one apparently - why do you expect Scotland Yard would second guess that?

Whats the point of Grange in that case,

Q: The first detective in charge of the case said he was going right back to the start of the case and
accepting nothing. It seems very much he was suggesting that it was going to be a brand new
investigation.
MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the
evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what
does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work
your way through the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 24, 2020, 02:34:10 PM
Whats the point of Grange in that case,

Q: The first detective in charge of the case said he was going right back to the start of the case and
accepting nothing. It seems very much he was suggesting that it was going to be a brand new
investigation.
MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the
evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what
does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work
your way through the case.

Many of the personnel involved in Madeleine's reopened case have spent many precious hours poring over the repercussions of Amaral's botched investigation ~ Portuguese ~ British ~ and it now appears to be Germany's turn.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 24, 2020, 02:40:59 PM
Grange would be as thorough as the information emanating from Portuguese colleagues allowed them to be.  If the Judicial Police had allegedly discarded him after interview - perhaps as a petty fuel thief with no record of burglary or paedophilia despite him confessing to having one apparently - why do you expect Scotland Yard would second guess that?

What do you think OG has spent some 12 million on?

It's OG's responsibility to carry out its own due diligence checks on everyone within a certain radius of PDL whether a permanent resident or visiting.

Afaik all modern democracies maintain a register of criminal convictions.

https://www.bundesjustizamt.de/EN/Topics/citizen_services/BZR/BZR_node.html

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/cross-border-cases/judicial-cooperation/tools-judicial-cooperation/european-criminal-records-information-system-ecris_en

https://dgaj.justica.gov.pt/Registo-criminal/Criminal-record-certificate

https://www.gov.uk/dbs-check-applicant-criminal-record
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 24, 2020, 03:27:42 PM
Many of the personnel involved in Madeleine's reopened case have spent many precious hours poring over the repercussions of Amaral's botched investigation ~ Portuguese ~ British ~ and it now appears to be Germany's turn.

Well so much you thinking they was doing something and all working together IMO its a joke

12 million spent on what - they should have gone back to the very beginning when they took over

Looked at it from the beginning with fresh eyes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 24, 2020, 05:12:05 PM
What do you think OG has spent some 12 million on?

It's OG's responsibility to carry out its own due diligence checks on everyone within a certain radius of PDL whether a permanent resident or visiting.

Afaik all modern democracies maintain a register of criminal convictions.

https://www.bundesjustizamt.de/EN/Topics/citizen_services/BZR/BZR_node.html

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/cross-border-cases/judicial-cooperation/tools-judicial-cooperation/european-criminal-records-information-system-ecris_en

https://dgaj.justica.gov.pt/Registo-criminal/Criminal-record-certificate

https://www.gov.uk/dbs-check-applicant-criminal-record

If this was the case in 2007, why didn't the PJ access the records of foreign nationals on their soil themselves?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 24, 2020, 07:06:12 PM
This is a comment by someone studying Madeleine’s disappearance:

The forensic technician, taking finger prints on the bedroom window:

This whole area should have been covered with a tent, to prevent further contamination!
She had her hair down which was blowing in the breeze!
She had on only ONE glove and that was on her LEFT hand.
She was applying the powder with the brush with her RIGHT UNGLOVED hand.
Her overalls were not fastened.
She did not have a mask on.
She could have blown away a single hair with her breath, (apart from other contamination's)!
Her case was on the BARE ground, allowing further matter to be carried inside the apartment.
She did NOT have her correct footwear on, or even overshoes, thus allowing further contamination.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 24, 2020, 07:35:12 PM
This is a comment by someone studying Madeleine’s disappearance:

The forensic technician, taking finger prints on the bedroom window:

This whole area should have been covered with a tent, to prevent further contamination!
She had her hair down which was blowing in the breeze!
She had on only ONE glove and that was on her LEFT hand.
She was applying the powder with the brush with her RIGHT UNGLOVED hand.
Her overalls were not fastened.
She did not have a mask on.
She could have blown away a single hair with her breath, (apart from other contamination's)!
Her case was on the BARE ground, allowing further matter to be carried inside the apartment.
She did NOT have her correct footwear on, or even overshoes, thus allowing further contamination.
For a break in?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 24, 2020, 08:16:44 PM
For a break in?

Or not as the case maybe.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 24, 2020, 08:43:40 PM
For a break in?
   
           For a missing child.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 24, 2020, 09:15:31 PM
   
           For a missing child.
Really? When? Ever?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 24, 2020, 09:19:05 PM
Or not as the case maybe.
Mobilise CSI: Lagos for what, at the time, was a missing person.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 24, 2020, 09:52:35 PM
This is a comment by someone studying Madeleine’s disappearance:

The forensic technician, taking finger prints on the bedroom window:

This whole area should have been covered with a tent, to prevent further contamination!
She had her hair down which was blowing in the breeze!
She had on only ONE glove and that was on her LEFT hand.
She was applying the powder with the brush with her RIGHT UNGLOVED hand.
Her overalls were not fastened.
She did not have a mask on.
She could have blown away a single hair with her breath, (apart from other contamination's)!
Her case was on the BARE ground, allowing further matter to be carried inside the apartment.
She did NOT have her correct footwear on, or even overshoes, thus allowing further contamination.

I feel a bit sorry for that lady who seems to have taken most of the heat over the forensics. Maybe there wasn't enough forensic gear?

I guess they did what they could with what they had, but - objectively - it was hardly a thorough sweep. Not all their fault, either. By the time they arrived, several people had been in and out of there, including GNR dog paw prints all over the place as well.

Not the GNR's fault, either. There was no manual at the time for first responders.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 24, 2020, 11:21:41 PM
For anyone interested there is a full translation of Amaral's TVI interview over on the Textusa blog.
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-jornal-das-8-tvi-june-21.html
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-jornal-das-8-tvi-june-21_24.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 24, 2020, 11:24:46 PM
She certainly found Dianne Webster's prints on the shutters and Gerry claimed to have lifted them so how many prints were found on the shutters?

The group tampered with crucial evidence. If neither of them touched the shutters maybe there would be no prints found like on the window!

There had to be prints on them to indicate a stranger but that doesn't mean any stranger touched them. That is tampered evidence by the group and not the PJ!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 25, 2020, 12:02:35 AM
For anyone interested there is a full translation of Amaral's TVI interview over on the Textusa blog.
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-jornal-das-8-tvi-june-21.html
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-jornal-das-8-tvi-june-21_24.html

GA: Nowadays there are new techniques for, for analysing and, and... for... and even re-analyse what has been examined. If there is enough remnant, it is possible to reach other conclusions. I remind that in the vehicle rented by the couple there are hairs that were returned that is said that by the colouring it’s from the missing girl's, but as they have no root, they are unable to dee… to determine the DNA. It is known that there are laboratories that can do this...

JAC: Now...

GA: …so Germans who have money can easily solve this mystery.


Conclusion
In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 25, 2020, 12:21:03 AM
GA: Nowadays there are new techniques for, for analysing and, and... for... and even re-analyse what has been examined. If there is enough remnant, it is possible to reach other conclusions. I remind that in the vehicle rented by the couple there are hairs that were returned that is said that by the colouring it’s from the missing girl's, but as they have no root, they are unable to dee… to determine the DNA. It is known that there are laboratories that can do this...

JAC: Now...

GA: …so Germans who have money can easily solve this mystery.


Conclusion
In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm

The only problem with just hairs is transference can be argued.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 25, 2020, 07:05:30 AM
She certainly found Dianne Webster's prints on the shutters and Gerry claimed to have lifted them so how many prints were found on the shutters?

The group tampered with crucial evidence. If neither of them touched the shutters maybe there would be no prints found like on the window!

There had to be prints on them to indicate a stranger but that doesn't mean any stranger touched them. That is tampered evidence by the group and not the PJ!

Where were Diane's prints identified in the report?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 25, 2020, 08:52:52 PM
The only problem with just hairs is transference can be argued.

Madeleine's hair should not be in the boot of a vehicle that was not rented until 24 days after the disappearance. You pack clothes inside bags. They couldn't even find her hair on her hairbrush!

No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 25, 2020, 08:57:54 PM
Madeleine's hair should not be in the boot of a vehicle that was not rented until 24 days after the disappearance. You pack clothes inside bags. They couldn't even find her hair on her hairbrush!

No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm

Transference can still not be absolutely ruled out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 26, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Madeleine's hair should not be in the boot of a vehicle that was not rented until 24 days after the disappearance. You pack clothes inside bags. They couldn't even find her hair on her hairbrush!

No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm

What makes you think that those objects were sent in from Portugal?

SJM/1 was the pillowcase from Rothley, for example.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 26, 2020, 10:17:05 AM
Madeleine's hair should not be in the boot of a vehicle that was not rented until 24 days after the disappearance. You pack clothes inside bags. They couldn't even find her hair on her hairbrush!

No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm


How would Madeleine's hair be in the rental vehicle 24 days after her disappearance.   You are surely not suggesting she was put uncovered in the boot and that hairs fell from her head?   Can you imagine what state her body would be in after 24 days?   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 26, 2020, 11:01:23 AM

How would Madeleine's hair be in the rental vehicle 24 days after her disappearance.   You are surely not suggesting she was put uncovered in the boot and that hairs fell from her head?   Can you imagine what state her body would be in after 24 days?

Roll in Amaral's frozen theory... as the "only explanation" for the alleged reports of gruesome findings of "100%" findings of blood and "tufts of hair" that somehow leaked out of those pesky PJ windows into the waiting arms of tabloids with fishut upls of euros.... and all within the context of supposed PT judicial secrecy.

Whether any of this was actually true or not didn't seem to matter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 26, 2020, 12:44:15 PM
Transference can still not be absolutely ruled out.

You're not taking the proverbial, by any chance?

Yes, transference can always be an issue.

However, as it happens, the pillow-case in question was from her bed in Rothley.

They were trying to establish a refence sample of her DNA profile at the time (i.e. her identity). That's preliminary to establishing whether or not she was a victim of a crime.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 26, 2020, 04:28:07 PM

How would Madeleine's hair be in the rental vehicle 24 days after her disappearance.   You are surely not suggesting she was put uncovered in the boot and that hairs fell from her head?   Can you imagine what state her body would be in after 24 days?

That depends how and where it was stored.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 26, 2020, 07:04:55 PM
.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 26, 2020, 07:46:35 PM
.

thats great...why havent they solved it then....he obvioulsy doesnt know what hes talking about
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 27, 2020, 12:29:56 AM
You're not taking the proverbial, by any chance?

Yes, transference can always be an issue.

However, as it happens, the pillow-case in question was from her bed in Rothley.

They were trying to establish a refence sample of her DNA profile at the time (i.e. her identity). That's preliminary to establishing whether or not she was a victim of a crime.

I’m sorry I’ve no idea what you mean by taking the proverbial ?

Transference, from anything carried in the car, is always an issue.

I wasn’t talking about the pillow case and I certainly don’t need to be informed of its purpose.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 27, 2020, 12:45:28 AM
thats great...why havent they solved it then....he obvioulsy doesnt know what hes talking about

Oh I think he knew alright … and he was careful with words.

Do you think that he was trying to undermine the OG findings by pre-empting them ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 27, 2020, 02:14:13 PM
That depends how and where it was stored.

Really?  If the wrapped Madeleine's body up would depend on where it was stored?    Such as?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 27, 2020, 02:24:56 PM
Really?  If the wrapped Madeleine's body up would depend on where it was stored?    Such as?

A body stored in a freezer wouldn't be in a poor condition.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 27, 2020, 02:30:18 PM
A body stored in a freezer wouldn't be in a poor condition.


What freezer would that be?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 27, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

What freezer would that be?
If I could answer that it wouldn't be on an internet forum!

Smithman could have handed over the body to a third party with access to a freezer in a nearby property, would be one speculative made up scenario. Or Smithman himself may have had access to a property nearby with a freezer for example. Pure speculation of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 27, 2020, 02:58:03 PM

What freezer would that be?

Was it the one The PJ said Joana Cipriano's body was stored in, or was it the one Amaral said Madeleine's body was stored in?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 27, 2020, 03:21:20 PM
Was it the one The PJ said Joana Cipriano's body was stored in, or was it the one Amaral said Madeleine's body was stored in?

On the latter I believe he was speculating since I can't think of any other method of concealment that would fit with Amaral's theory.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 27, 2020, 03:25:36 PM
Yes indeed - it was a line of investigation. He never stated it as fact, Eleanor.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-apartment-freezer-goncalo-amaral-maddie-podcast/4404d9d1-86fa-4c0d-b87d-8ce086f6a3b3

...."Several months after Madeleine McCann vanished Portuguese police were trying to find a mystery apartment where the missing girl's body could have been hidden in a freezer, according to the detective who once led the 2007 investigation.
Speaking on episode 10 of Maddie, nine.com.au's podcast series about Madeleine's disappearance, Goncalo Amaral described a line of inquiry his team was following when he was abruptly removed from the case, in October 2007.
"The team was looking for an apartment," Mr Amaral said, explaining police had been tipped off about the possible unusual development.".
....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 27, 2020, 03:28:31 PM
On the latter I believe he was speculating since I can't think of any other method of concealment that would fit with Amaral's theory.

The same Theory, in fact.  Well, it worked the first time so why not try it again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 27, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
The same Theory, in fact.  Well, it worked the first time so why not try it again.

Deleted
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 27, 2020, 06:19:14 PM
On the latter I believe he was speculating since I can't think of any other method of concealment that would fit with Amaral's theory.

Have you forgotten Amarals theory that Madeleines body was put in the coffin of a woman waiting to be cremated. 
($^6  %77*

IIRC the coffin was in the church where The McCanns prayed. 

So bizarre and the gullible masses swallowed it hook, line and sinker
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 27, 2020, 08:13:34 PM
.

I've just watched a transcript of this interview and amaral seems to be backtracking quite a bit on his  theory.  He. Seems to be saying it wasn't his theory just a description of the investigation at that time...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 27, 2020, 08:22:00 PM
I've just watched a transcript of this interview and amaral seems to be backtracking quite a bit on his  theory.  He. Seems to be saying it wasn't his theory just a description of the investigation at that time...
Just typical!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 27, 2020, 08:29:36 PM

GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 27, 2020, 08:35:18 PM
Have you forgotten Amarals theory that Madeleines body was put in the coffin of a woman waiting to be cremated. 
($^6  %77*

IIRC the coffin was in the church where The McCanns prayed. 

So bizarre and the gullible masses swallowed it hook, line and sinker

And that wouldn't fit with his suggestion  they might have moved the body in the hire car later.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 28, 2020, 12:09:38 AM
And that wouldn't fit with his suggestion  they might have moved the body in the hire car later.
That depends when the cremation was done.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 12:24:55 AM
That depends when the cremation was done.

I don’t think a coffin would fit in the Renault hire car... and having got a body in a coffin no-one is then going to take it out again!!!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 28, 2020, 12:56:02 AM
I don’t think a coffin would fit in the Renault hire car... and having got a body in a coffin no-one is then going to take it out again!!!!
The coffin was already at the church.  The McCanns just need to bring the body of whoever they want to get rid of and put it in the coffin along with the deceased lady.

That is how I pictured it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 01:39:10 AM
The coffin was already at the church.  The McCanns just need to bring the body of whoever they want to get rid of and put it in the coffin along with the deceased lady.

That is how I pictured it.

Yeah I know but how would that scenario fit with Eddie and Keela’s alerts at the hire car?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 28, 2020, 01:45:52 AM
Yeah I know but how would that scenario fit with Eddie and Keela’s alerts at the hire car?
Goncalo thought he had evidence of a body thawing in the back of the hire car.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 02:24:53 AM
Goncalo thought he had evidence of a body thawing in the back of the hire car.

Yeah but not a rotting body from a coffin.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 28, 2020, 03:08:16 AM
Yeah but not a rotting body from a coffin.
The body in the coffin is most likely embalmed or chilled so it doesn't rot.  You seem to have a confused picture of what Goncalo was implying.

Maybe this article can set us straight.  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4461526/Detective-claims-Madeleine-McCann-cremated-coffin.html

"Amaral said she may have been hidden in another British woman's coffin as she was cremated, and said the church where Madeleine's parents prayed was key."
"He said: 'We had information three figures went into the church via a side door at night. They had a box and there was to be a cremation of a British woman.

'It is possible the child's remains were in this box and cremated as well. The parents had the key to the church,' reports The Sun."

But this was 6 weeks or more after Madeleine disappeared.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 07:48:02 AM
Yeah I know but how would that scenario fit with Eddie and Keela’s alerts at the hire car?

I don't think there is any question to the proven fact that Eddie did not alert to so called cadaver scent in the hire car. 
Amaral merely promoted that he did in his book and everywhere else he could spread the lie.

Even today the clip and still photo of Eddie alerting noisily ... not to cadaver ... but to cellular material from a living human being appears everywhere as a shibboleth of sceptic belief.

It is quite simply wrong.
Eddie's alert as confirmed by the CSI dog and forensic tests proved it was to cellular material on the key fob and came from Madeleine's father.

So there you have the truth of one lie ... and it emanates directly from Amaral as do so many, many more.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 28, 2020, 09:02:47 AM
I’m sorry I’ve no idea what you mean by taking the proverbial ?

Transference, from anything carried in the car, is always an issue.

I wasn’t talking about the pillow case and I certainly don’t need to be informed of its purpose.

Ok, I'd misunderstood your post. I thought your reply was tongue in cheek, but you were serious. In which case, I agree with you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 09:15:18 AM
The body in the coffin is most likely embalmed or chilled so it doesn't rot.  You seem to have a confused picture of what Goncalo was implying.


But this was 6 weeks or more after Madeleine disappeared.

It's MM's body that would decompose - unless frozen.

Oh I wasn't  aware of the 6 week time frame. I presumed it was implied the body was hidden in the church almost immediately.  I've never looked at the reports as I didn't think it was plausible.
 
Taking a frozen body BACK to PDL in the hire car however is worth looking at.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 10:09:13 AM
It's MM's body that would decompose - unless frozen.

Oh I wasn't  aware of the 6 week time frame. I presumed it was implied the body was hidden in the church almost immediately.  I've never looked at the reports as I didn't think it was plausible.
 
Taking a frozen body BACK to PDL in the hire car however is worth looking at.
Taking a frozen body BACK to PDL in the hire car however is worth looking at.

In my opinion that suggestion verges on the idiotic and there is nothing which would give a reason to "look at" it but a discredited man's weird rantings within the pages of his discredited book.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 10:13:38 AM
Anyone who supports amaral..his theory and his right to free speech should look at what he has said this week. It suggests to me something may be going on with the ECHR. The amount of backtracking is phenomenal..

GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 10:16:23 AM
Anyone who supports amaral..his theory and his right to free speech should look at what he has said this week. It suggests to me something may be going on with the ECHR. The amount of backtracking is phenomenal..

GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ...

I think the pigeons are coming home to roost.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 10:39:30 AM
The body in the coffin is most likely embalmed or chilled so it doesn't rot.  You seem to have a confused picture of what Goncalo was implying.

Maybe this article can set us straight.  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4461526/Detective-claims-Madeleine-McCann-cremated-coffin.html

"Amaral said she may have been hidden in another British woman's coffin as she was cremated, and said the church where Madeleine's parents prayed was key."
"He said: 'We had information three figures went into the church via a side door at night. They had a box and there was to be a cremation of a British woman.

'It is possible the child's remains were in this box and cremated as well. The parents had the key to the church,' reports The Sun."

But this was 6 weeks or more after Madeleine disappeared.

Was there a thread here about that theory or access to the church?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 28, 2020, 10:44:00 AM
Anyone who supports amaral..his theory and his right to free speech should look at what he has said this week. It suggests to me something may be going on with the ECHR. The amount of backtracking is phenomenal..

GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ...

Nope nothing coming up next week,a couple from 2010 there,wait their turn I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 10:46:49 AM
The only problem with just hairs is transference can be argued.

I read a report from an ex-Police officer that hair can be proved forensically to have come from a corpse from approximately five days after death onwards.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 10:47:43 AM
Nope nothing coming up next week,a couple from 2010 there,wait their turn I'm afraid.

I think you mean judgements....I suspect the investigative stage amy be underway...amarals u turn is very very strange. .....read it again


GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 28, 2020, 10:50:55 AM
I think you mean judgements....I suspect the investigative stage amy be underway...amarals u turn is very very strange. .....read it again


GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ...

McCann /Healey v Portugal,its nothing to do with Amaral as you know full well.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 10:55:34 AM
McCann /Healey v Portugal,its nothing to do with Amaral as you know full well.

I know full well what its about...more than others it seems...it is to do with amaral. Its vs portugal but it concerns amarals claims and their validity and could ultimately affect amaral, his reputation and any futher claims by him. So dont think its nothing to do with amaral
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 28, 2020, 11:05:23 AM
I know full well what its about...more than others it seems...it is to do with amaral. Its vs portugal but it concerns amarals claims and their validity and could ultimately affect amaral, his reputation and any futher claims by him. So dont think its nothing to do with amaral

This was applied for at roughly the same time,its had movement,the McCann one hasn't.
(https://i.imgur.com/2PNVC0S.png)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 11:23:54 AM
This was applied for at roughly the same time,its had movement,the McCann one hasn't.
(https://i.imgur.com/2PNVC0S.png)

Do you know that the case isn't at this moment being investigated by the ECHR... What explanation do you have for amarals change of tack... It certainly suggest s it to me.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 28, 2020, 11:35:57 AM
Anyone who supports amaral..his theory and his right to free speech should look at what he has said this week. It suggests to me something may be going on with the ECHR. The amount of backtracking is phenomenal..

GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ...

A theory is something that is believed to be true,  correct me if I'm wrong.   Amaral did believe his account was true.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 28, 2020, 11:39:14 AM
A theory is something that is believed to be true,  correct me if I'm wrong.   Amaral did believe his account was true.

Definition of theory
: an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events. : an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true. : the general principles or ideas that relate to a particular subject.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 11:41:30 AM
Definition of theory
: an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events. : an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true. : the general principles or ideas that relate to a particular subject.

amaral said the evidence he presented proved it.....it didnt. He now seems to be back tracking
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 28, 2020, 11:54:12 AM
Was there a thread here about that theory or access to the church?
There is a really good search engine on the site. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 11:56:20 AM
This was applied for at roughly the same time,its had movement,the McCann one hasn't.
(https://i.imgur.com/2PNVC0S.png)

How did you find that one
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 28, 2020, 11:59:11 AM
Definition of theory
: an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events. : an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true. : the general principles or ideas that relate to a particular subject.


The Truth of the Lie Chapter 22 Amaral says this -  The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd

Amaral doesn't say he thinks she died or maybe she died,   he said she died.   He believed that to be true.
He doesn't say he thinks she died or maybe she died he says she died.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 28, 2020, 12:03:51 PM
Do you know that the case isn't at this moment being investigated by the ECHR... What explanation do you have for amarals change of tack... It certainly suggest s it to me.

It looks like nothing whatsoever has been done with the McCann and Healy v. Portugal application.

Application title
McCann and Healy v. Portugal
Date of Introduction
28/07/2017
Name of representative
Ricardo Correia Afonso
Current state of proceedings
Application awaiting first judicial decision
Last major event
08/08/2017  Application requiring a decision
List of major events
Description   Event date
Application requiring a decision   08/08/2017
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 28, 2020, 12:06:45 PM

The Truth of the Lie Chapter 22 Amaral says this -  The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd

Amaral doesn't say he thinks she died or maybe she died,   he said she died.   He believed that to be true.
He doesn't say he thinks she died or maybe she died he says she died.

OK, so what he claims to be a theory isn't.  Frankly not interested in what he said/says.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 12:11:19 PM
It looks like nothing whatsoever has been done with the McCann and Healy v. Portugal application.

Application title
McCann and Healy v. Portugal
Date of Introduction
28/07/2017
Name of representative
Ricardo Correia Afonso
Current state of proceedings
Application awaiting first judicial decision
Last major event
08/08/2017  Application requiring a decision
List of major events
Description   Event date
Application requiring a decision   08/08/2017

really...then you will know what date that pronouncement was made...posting something like that and expecting it to be taken seriously is ridiculous
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 28, 2020, 12:11:54 PM

The Truth of the Lie Chapter 22 Amaral says this -  The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd

Amaral doesn't say he thinks she died or maybe she died,   he said she died.   He believed that to be true.
He doesn't say he thinks she died or maybe she died he says she died.

He was repeating the conclusions which the investigators arrived at by 10th September 2007;

From everything that was exposed from the AUTOS, we conclude that:
A) The minor Madeleine McCann died in the apartment 5A of the Ocean Club resort, on the night of May 3rd of 2007;

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm#:~:text=P.J.%20POLICE%20FILES%3A%20TAVARES%20DE%20ALMEIDA%20CHIEF%20INSPECTOR&text=Where%20he%20concludes%2C%20after%20analyzing,first%20day%20of%20the%20investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 28, 2020, 12:15:28 PM
really...then you will know what date that pronouncement was made...posting something like that and expecting it to be taken seriously is ridiculous

Will  you post the update for us Davel?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 28, 2020, 12:15:39 PM
He was repeating the conclusions which the investigators arrived at by 10th September 2007;

From everything that was exposed from the AUTOS, we conclude that:
A) The minor Madeleine McCann died in the apartment 5A of the Ocean Club resort, on the night of May 3rd of 2007;

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm#:~:text=P.J.%20POLICE%20FILES%3A%20TAVARES%20DE%20ALMEIDA%20CHIEF%20INSPECTOR&text=Where%20he%20concludes%2C%20after%20analyzing,first%20day%20of%20the%20investigation.

Thirteen years ago.  Is Amaral the only one who hasn't changed his mind?  Or has he?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 12:16:18 PM
He was repeating the conclusions which the investigators arrived at by 10th September 2007;

From everything that was exposed from the AUTOS, we conclude that:
A) The minor Madeleine McCann died in the apartment 5A of the Ocean Club resort, on the night of May 3rd of 2007;

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm#:~:text=P.J.%20POLICE%20FILES%3A%20TAVARES%20DE%20ALMEIDA%20CHIEF%20INSPECTOR&text=Where%20he%20concludes%2C%20after%20analyzing,first%20day%20of%20the%20investigation.

he doesnt say that...hes stating it as  a fact....no where in conclusions does it say there was proof maddie died in the aprtment
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 12:17:12 PM
Will  you post the update for us Davel?

do you not realise gunit has posted what she claims to be an update..read her post
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 28, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
really...then you will know what date that pronouncement was made...posting something like that and expecting it to be taken seriously is ridiculous

The last change to that application was 8th August 2017. You can believe that or not, I don't care.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 12:23:32 PM
The last change to that application was 8th August 2017. You can believe that or not, I don't care.

I believe what I see... That could have been posted 2 or 3 years, ago.. I'm interested in evidence.. I thought you were.
Your post is evidence of nothing
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 12:24:33 PM
It looks like nothing whatsoever has been done with the McCann and Healy v. Portugal application.

Application title
McCann and Healy v. Portugal
Date of Introduction
28/07/2017
Name of representative
Ricardo Correia Afonso
Current state of proceedings
Application awaiting first judicial decision
Last major event
08/08/2017  Application requiring a decision
List of major events
Description   Event date
Application requiring a decision   08/08/2017
Your post doesn't support your opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 28, 2020, 12:26:48 PM
he doesnt say that...hes stating it as  a fact....no where in conclusions does it say there was proof maddie died in the aprtment

He reproduced exactly what was said in the files on 10th September 2007. His book covered the investigation during the period when he was involved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 28, 2020, 12:38:09 PM
do you not realise gunit has posted what she claims to be an update..read her post

I am reading that you disagree with G on this update, so can you provide the most recent one you know of to rubbish G's claims?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 12:54:33 PM
I am reading that you disagree with G on this update, so can you provide the most recent one you know of to rubbish G's claims?

Then you aren't reading my posts or g post properly
G hasn't provided any proper update.. That's the point I'm making. She seems to think she has... As do you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 28, 2020, 12:56:27 PM
Getting off topic,cause it doesn't concern Amaral.

(https://i.imgur.com/AraNXPk.png)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 28, 2020, 12:58:23 PM
Then you aren't reading my posts or g post properly
G hasn't provided any proper update.. That's the point I'm making. She seems to think she has... As do you

I clearly have information which you don't have. I check the progress of the application regularly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 28, 2020, 01:02:56 PM
Then you aren't reading my posts or g post properly
G hasn't provided any proper update.. That's the point I'm making. She seems to think she has... As do you

Oh Good.  I thought I had missed that one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 01:03:15 PM
I clearly have information which you don't have. I check the progress of the application regularly.

You claim you do.. Based on your posts I don't trust your judgement.  Can you provide a cite that you have information  I don't have... It's just your opinion and should be posted as such
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 01:04:38 PM
Getting off topic,cause it doesn't concern Amaral.

(https://i.imgur.com/AraNXPk.png)

that was posted on Saunonkonokos cite around a year ago
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 28, 2020, 01:05:36 PM
Then you aren't reading my posts or g post properly
G hasn't provided any proper update.. That's the point I'm making. She seems to think she has... As do you

OKAY... Then please provide an update which you have. Thank you.

 Is there an update. I read G's post to say nothing has moved forward from day one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 28, 2020, 01:05:55 PM
that was posted on Saunonkonokos cite around a year ago

Go here and put the number in.

http://app.echr.coe.int/SOP/index.aspx?lg=en
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 01:06:46 PM
I clearly have information which you don't have. I check the progress of the application regularly.
you claim to have information I do not have...as you have just posted on another thread...

provide cites for anything they claim to be facts.

please provide  a cite...I really cant stand hypocrisy
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 01:08:42 PM
Go here and put the number in.

http://app.echr.coe.int/SOP/index.aspx?lg=en

  thanks, I take it you dont have the number of the mccann case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 28, 2020, 01:10:48 PM
  thanks, I take it you dont have the number of the mccann case.

Where do you think the screen shot came from,

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 01:13:20 PM
Where do you think the screen shot came from,

then you know and accept its not up to date.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 28, 2020, 01:15:03 PM
then you know and accept its not up to date.

Of course its up to date,go to where I linked to put in the number and you get the state of play as is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 01:18:18 PM
Of course its up to date,go to where I linked to put in the number and you get the state of play as is.

so lets be clear...you have the number of the Mccanns application
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 28, 2020, 01:19:06 PM
so lets be clear...you have the number of the Mccanns application

Yes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 01:21:17 PM
Yes.

CITE.....then why did you post a screenshot from ayear ago
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 28, 2020, 01:22:52 PM
CITE.....then why did you post a screenshot from ayear ago

Its from today,you obviously don't have the number.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 01:26:55 PM
Its from today,you obviously don't have the number.

i dont...and you havent shown you do either. That does not mean there is no discussion re the case between the parties at the moment
Nothing would show there unless a decision has been made....I m suggesting that due to amarals backtracking ...something may well be going on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 01:48:34 PM
I don't think there is any question to the proven fact that Eddie did not alert to so called cadaver scent in the hire car. 
Amaral merely promoted that he did in his book and everywhere else he could spread the lie.

Even today the clip and still photo of Eddie alerting noisily ... not to cadaver ... but to cellular material from a living human being appears everywhere as a shibboleth of sceptic belief.

It is quite simply wrong.
Eddie's alert as confirmed by the CSI dog and forensic tests proved it was to cellular material on the key fob and came from Madeleine's father.

So there you have the truth of one lie ... and it emanates directly from Amaral as do so many, many more.

Keela alerted to blood in the boot. The key isn't kept in the boot!

In the sample collected in the boot area of the vehicle, 15 of the identified
DNA components coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann, this of [having] 19 components.

Portimao, 11 September 2007
Inspector
Joao Carlos


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 28, 2020, 02:01:32 PM
Yes.

Shall we share it Barrier?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 02:51:11 PM
Shall we share it Barrier?

You dont convince me of anything...you have made a claim you cannot substantiate and by your own rules you should provide a cite. You should not expect others to do what you fail to do yourself.

The fact is amaral has made an extraordinary statement that backtracks what on he has previously said. It seems to suggests something is happening with the ECHR. No judgement obvioulsy...before a judgement there has to be discussions...evidence etc.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 28, 2020, 02:56:55 PM
Keela alerted to blood in the boot. The key isn't kept in the boot!

In the sample collected in the boot area of the vehicle, 15 of the identified
DNA components coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann, this of [having] 19 components.

Portimao, 11 September 2007
Inspector
Joao Carlos


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

He may have translated that a little too quickly as it was from a mixed sample of between 3-5 donors... in a car that had been used by various members of her family.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 28, 2020, 02:57:00 PM
You dont convince me of anything...you have made a claim you cannot substantiate and by your own rules you should provide a cite. You should not expect others to do what you fail to do yourself.

The fact is amaral has made an extraordinary statement that backtracks what on he has previously said. It seems to suggests something is happening with the ECHR. No judgement obvioulsy...before a judgement there has to be discussions...evidence etc.
You didn't read it, did you?
Stick to your Channel 9 version.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 03:08:20 PM
He may have translated that a little too quickly as it was from a mixed sample of between 3-5 donors... in a car that had been used by various members of her family.

At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

Too complex for FSS in 2007. That doesn't necessarily mean it is too complex today!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 03:08:37 PM
You didn't read it, did you?
Stick to your Channel 9 version.

Ill say it again and please read it carefully. That screenshot shows if any judgemnent is made....


I havent suggested there has been any judgement Ive suggested that there may be something going on due to amarals backtracking. I think his staement this week is astonishing...


GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ..


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 03:15:51 PM
Shall we share it Barrier?
Oh the gloating over getting one over on the dumb supporters.  Shame on you for playing games.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 28, 2020, 03:16:07 PM
Ill say it again and please read it carefully. That screenshot shows if any judgemnent is made....


I havent suggested there has been any judgement Ive suggested that there may be something going on due to amarals backtracking.
That's code for 'I'm wrong'.
Show me Amaral's backtracking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
That's code for 'I'm wrong'.
Show me Amaral's backtracking.

Have you raed my posts on the subect...ive repeated it several times..

GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 28, 2020, 03:19:02 PM
Have you raed my posts on the subect...ive repeated it several times..

GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ..
I have seem him doubling down this week, as it happens.
Plus his new book is out pretty soon. Good timing to coincide with the CB debacle for publicity. Kerchingo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 03:19:08 PM
Ill say it again and please read it carefully. That screenshot shows if any judgemnent is made....


I havent suggested there has been any judgement Ive suggested that there may be something going on due to amarals backtracking. I think his staement this week is astonishing...


GA: The book I published does not support a theory. That is a mistake that has been going around, not being a theory. The book that I published, I published for the reasons that I have explained over the years ..

It is based on their conclusion when he was working on the case. Goncalo Amaral was the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation!

A report by Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida to the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Where he concludes, after analyzing all the evidence gathered, that the child is dead and the parents were responsible for cadaver occultation, and the entire GROUP was lying since the first day of the investigation.

10 September 2007
(Processo: VOL ,X, p. 2587-2602)


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 03:20:03 PM
Oh the gloating over getting one over on the dumb supporters.  Shame on you for playing games.


i dont see anyone getting one over on me...I see hypocrisy from gunits post and I see sceptics do not want to address amaral highly significant change in behaviour and his astonishing statement re his book. If you read the whole short interview he doesnt seem to want to talk about his theory or his book...now why would that be
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 28, 2020, 03:21:10 PM

i dont see anyone getting one over on me...I see hypocrisy from gunits post and I see sceptics do not want to address amaral highly significant change in behaviour and his astonishing statement re his book. If you read the whole short interview he doesnt seem to want to talk about his theory or his book...now why would that be

José Alberto Carvalho: Let me ask you this question Gonçalo Amaral, could Christian Brueckner be the author of… whatever happened to Madeleine McCann or not?

Gonçalo Amaral: To answer that question, it needs first to be demonstrated that there was an abduction. And what I can demonstrate is that all those people who were there lied, there was never any scheme to… monitor the children who were at home, sleeping in the apartments… they went to the apartments to use the WC, this is written in statements they made, they told the receptionist that they were going to the apartment to see their children, they didn’t say they were going to the bathroom because the bathroom by the pool didn’t have great conditions to go there, they simulated a situation of abduction with the window, with the opening of it all... saying that the window was open, it was closed, a big mess...

No volte face here.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 03:21:58 PM
It is based on their conclusion when he was working on the case. Goncalo Amaral was the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation!

A report by Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida to the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Where he concludes, after analyzing all the evidence gathered, that the child is dead and the parents were responsible for cadaver occultation, and the entire GROUP was lying since the first day of the investigation.

10 September 2007
(Processo: VOL ,X, p. 2587-2602)


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm

read the post again...amaral is saying the book doesnt support any theory
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 03:23:54 PM
That wasn't a theory. That was the evidence that made the McCanns arguido!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 03:26:19 PM
José Alberto Carvalho: Let me ask you this question Gonçalo Amaral, could Christian Brueckner be the author of… whatever happened to Madeleine McCann or not?

Gonçalo Amaral: To answer that question, it needs first to be demonstrated that there was an abduction. And what I can demonstrate is that all those people who were there lied, there was never any scheme to… monitor the children who were at home, sleeping in the apartments… they went to the apartments to use the WC, this is written in statements they made, they told the receptionist that they were going to the apartment to see their children, they didn’t say they were going to the bathroom because the bathroom by the pool didn’t have great conditions to go there, they simulated a situation of abduction with the window, with the opening of it all... saying that the window was open, it was closed, a big mess...

No volte face here.

He said they lied about the visits and the window... No mention of Maddie dying in an accident... No mention of her covering up het death.  He even mentions it's possible she could have left the apartment herself...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 28, 2020, 03:32:28 PM
He reproduced exactly what was said in the files on 10th September 2007. His book covered the investigation during the period when he was involved.


The Truth of the Lie Chapter 22 -  The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found.

Can you show me that in the files please?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 03:40:02 PM
He reproduced exactly what was said in the files on 10th September 2007. His book covered the investigation during the period when he was involved.

you must realise he added things himself or perhaps you beleive what you have posted...The book is not exactly what is in the files and thats why I dont trust your judgement
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 03:52:30 PM
José Alberto Carvalho: Let me ask you this question Gonçalo Amaral, could Christian Brueckner be the author of… whatever happened to Madeleine McCann or not?

Gonçalo Amaral: To answer that question, it needs first to be demonstrated that there was an abduction. And what I can demonstrate is that all those people who were there lied, there was never any scheme to… monitor the children who were at home, sleeping in the apartments… they went to the apartments to use the WC, this is written in statements they made, they told the receptionist that they were going to the apartment to see their children, they didn’t say they were going to the bathroom because the bathroom by the pool didn’t have great conditions to go there, they simulated a situation of abduction with the window, with the opening of it all... saying that the window was open, it was closed, a big mess...

No volte face here.

do you have  a link to this translation...the part about the window doesnt tally with the ones ive seen
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 03:57:48 PM
José Alberto Carvalho: Let me ask you this question Gonçalo Amaral, could Christian Brueckner be the author of… whatever happened to Madeleine McCann or not?

Gonçalo Amaral: To answer that question, it needs first to be demonstrated that there was an abduction. And what I can demonstrate is that all those people who were there lied, there was never any scheme to… monitor the children who were at home, sleeping in the apartments… they went to the apartments to use the WC, this is written in statements they made, they told the receptionist that they were going to the apartment to see their children, they didn’t say they were going to the bathroom because the bathroom by the pool didn’t have great conditions to go there, they simulated a situation of abduction with the window, with the opening of it all... saying that the window was open, it was closed, a big mess...

No volte face here.
Plenty of unsubstantiated accusation though - he’s rather good at that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 28, 2020, 03:59:18 PM
He said they lied about the visits and the window... No mention of Maddie dying in an accident... No mention of her covering up het death.  He even mentions it's possible she could have left the apartment herself...

He says Maddie died in the apartment - what he doesn't know is how, or what the circumstances were.

I cant see how you can say he is backtracking that only seems that way to you your opinion as usual.
.



Talk about simulation because it wasn't kidnapping, is that it?


I explain. How could a possible abductor enter the apartment? One way would be with a false key, but after that this clue was not confirmed, and the other was to enter through a door that was open. That apartment is a ground floor that has a main wooden door and a sliding door at the rear that opened onto the garden and further down the restaurant area where everyone was dining. Therefore, if there is a kidnapper to leave no marks, this would be the entry point. But within that line of implying that the children were safe, it was invented that a window was found open, but there is great confusion in the statements because some say they were open, others did not know. but there is one thing that the child's mother says in statements and that is that when she was in the apartment that window was always closed, with the shutters closed. What is asked is why that night the only fingerprint that appears in the window is that of the child's mother and not of an alleged abductor.


Those were the doubts you always had?

These are not doubts. They are certainties. We are sure that no one passed through there. If anyone comes to say that they entered and left the window, it is completely a lie.

 

The only thing missing is where Maddie is at all, or what happened to her?

That is another matter. The child died in that apartment, the circumstances are that we do not know. The Judiciary Police does not accuse anyone of murder ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 04:07:11 PM
Keela alerted to blood in the boot. The key isn't kept in the boot!

In the sample collected in the boot area of the vehicle, 15 of the identified
DNA components coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann, this of [having] 19 components.

Portimao, 11 September 2007
Inspector
Joao Carlos


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

   Eddie did not alert to the boot ~ I think you must know that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 04:09:41 PM
He says Maddie died in the apartment - what he doesn't know is how, or what the circumstances were.

I cant see how you can say he is backtracking that only seems that way to you your opinion as usual.
.



are you seriously saying he has not said maddie died in the apartment due to an accident...due to calpol...that her parents covered up the death...are you serious...have you read his book...have you listened to his documentary.......thats what he said...now he is not saying it...thats backtracking.  it looks to me that the only tyhing that reallistically could cause this is the ECHR case has started
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 04:17:52 PM
It is based on their conclusion when he was working on the case. Goncalo Amaral was the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation!

A report by Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida to the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Where he concludes, after analyzing all the evidence gathered, that the child is dead and the parents were responsible for cadaver occultation, and the entire GROUP was lying since the first day of the investigation.

10 September 2007
(Processo: VOL ,X, p. 2587-2602)


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm

Yet another corrupt cop associated with Amaral and with Madeleine's case.


The two defendants, Diamantino dos Santos de Almeida and Tavares were convicted co-author and should appeal the conviction.

The three inspectors Judicial, both now convicted and who was acquitted, all remain active.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2140.msg71041#msg71041
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 04:32:29 PM
are you seriously saying he has not said maddie died in the apartment due to an accident...due to calpol...that her parents covered up the death...are you serios...have you read his book...have you listened to his documentary.......thats what he said...now he is not saying it...thats backtracking.  it looks to me that the only tyhing that reallistically could cause this is the ECHR case has started

In an interview with El Mundo he lied about Kate McCann ~ he never met her or interviewed her and the interviewer did ask about his theory about Madeleine falling off the couch.


Q – It was said that Kate was very cold. But I've seen her cry.

A - So did I. She is not cold. There was a moment, in a meeting with them, when we set out the sofa theory. Kate puts her head down, looking distant, and, after a few seconds, she looked up again as if nothing had happened. She looked like she was escaping from the role that she was interpreting.

Q - When you raised the hypothesis that the girl might have died after falling off the sofa, did Kate McCann answer?

A - She did not answer, she just dropped her head for a moment, as if she was about to faint. She had an emotional collapse that lasted just a moment.

com/2008/09/gonalo-amaral-in-el-mundo-gerry-mccann.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 04:37:34 PM
   Eddie did not alert to the boot ~ I think you must know that.

Eddie alerted to scent coming from the vehicle. They did not put Eddie inside the vehicle to find the source. If hairs in the boot match Madeleine it is a game changer!

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 04:40:01 PM
Eddie alerted to scent coming from the vehicle. They did not put Eddie inside the vehicle to find the source. If hairs in the boot match Madeleine it is a game changer!

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

there was blood in the vehicle ////gerrys blood
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 04:41:54 PM
   Eddie did not alert to the boot ~ I think you must know that.

 
Presumably this is because, as Martin Grime explains, Eddie does not need to indicate a precise point - simply that there is cadaver odour there. Keela is then used to pin down precise points for their evidential value)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 04:44:15 PM
In an interview with El Mundo he lied about Kate McCann ~ he never met her or interviewed her and the interviewer did ask about his theory about Madeleine falling off the couch.


Q – It was said that Kate was very cold. But I've seen her cry.

A - So did I. She is not cold. There was a moment, in a meeting with them, when we set out the sofa theory. Kate puts her head down, looking distant, and, after a few seconds, she looked up again as if nothing had happened. She looked like she was escaping from the role that she was interpreting.

Q - When you raised the hypothesis that the girl might have died after falling off the sofa, did Kate McCann answer?

A - She did not answer, she just dropped her head for a moment, as if she was about to faint. She had an emotional collapse that lasted just a moment.

com/2008/09/gonalo-amaral-in-el-mundo-gerry-mccann.html

Who is lying? Behind the mirror Kate couldn't see Amaral watching her closely! Haven't you seen a police interview room?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 04:48:49 PM
Eddie alerted to scent coming from the vehicle. They did not put Eddie inside the vehicle to find the source. If hairs in the boot match Madeleine it is a game changer!

My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Stop trying to rewrite history.

The only alert Eddie made in the garage was to the Renault passenger door. We've all watched the video.

When the key fob was removed and hidden Keela alerted to it, and Eddie also alerted to the hidden key fob for the second time.

When the key fob was forensically tested cellular material from Gerry McCann was found
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 04:51:58 PM

 
Presumably this is because, as Martin Grime explains, Eddie does not need to indicate a precise point - simply that there is cadaver odour there. Keela is then used to pin down precise points for their evidential value)

Please read and try to understand my post. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg604190#msg604190 
There was no such alert to cadaver odour in the hire vehicle.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 04:54:15 PM
Stop trying to rewrite history.

The only alert Eddie made in the garage was to the Renault passenger door. We've all watched the video.

When the key fob was removed and hidden Keela alerted to it, and Eddie also alerted to the hidden key fob for the second time.

When the key fob was forensically tested cellular material from Gerry McCann was found

I'm not rewriting anything. I will provide you with the FACTS! Keela made 2 alerts to blood. One to the key and another alert in the car boot! The DNA had 15 alleles matching Madeleine in the BOOT not on the key!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
Who is lying? Behind the mirror Kate couldn't see Amaral watching her closely! Haven't you seen a police interview room?

The one with the criminal conviction for lying of course.  The interviewer is asking Amaral direct questions and he gives direct answers to them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 05:10:30 PM
I'm not rewriting anything. I will provide you with the FACTS! Keela made 2 alerts to blood. One to the key and another alert in the car boot! The DNA had 15 alleles matching Madeleine in the BOOT not on the key!

You are misinterpreting the facts.  Read the files.

Eddie alerted to the key fob when it was in the vehicle.  When the key fob was removed from the vehicle and hidden, he followed it, found it and alerted to it again.

He was alerting to the substance on the key ... not to cadaver odour.

Eddie's puppy training was as a victim recovery dog and VRDs alert to a variety of human detritus.  Keela was trained to alert exclusively to one substance ... Eddie was not. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 05:12:13 PM
I'm not rewriting anything. I will provide you with the FACTS! Keela made 2 alerts to blood. One to the key and another alert in the car boot! The DNA had 15 alleles matching Madeleine in the BOOT not on the key!

No blood confirmed as being found in the boot.. And a dna sample that could not be shown to have come from madeleine
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 05:14:00 PM
You are misinterpreting the facts.  Read the files.

Eddie alerted to the key fob when it was in the vehicle.  When the key fob was removed from the vehicle and hidden, he followed it, found it and alerted to it again.

He was alerting to the substance on the key ... not to cadaver odour.

Eddie's puppy training was as a victim recovery dog and VRDs alert to a variety of human detritus.  Keela was trained to alert exclusively to one substance ... Eddie was not. 

I will say this for the last time as it didn't get through last time!

15 alleles matching Madeleine was found in the boot NOT on the key.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 05:16:56 PM
José Manuel Anes - CMTV, June 27 2020, 15:20

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kT8ab3MwgxQ/XvfET_xwNOI/AAAAAAAASn4/AAATT0J2JDkbTdAMbDM57Dj17omzmkXdQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/corte.jpg)

João Ferreira: In the studio I have José Manuel Anes, former president of the Criminalized Security and Terrorism Observatory [OSCOT] and also a university professor, good afternoon Professor for your presence...

José Manuel Anes: Good afternoon, João, thank you.

JF: Well, at a first moment the Professor was critical of the PJ's performance, in fact you were present in court in the process which Maddie's moved against Gonçalo Amaral and in court you even said that, that at first the PJ failed. Why?

JMA: That is, I think that ... if ... I was inside the investigations but from what I saw from the outside, it seems that they have narrowed down to one hypothesis, but I am sure that my friend...

JF: They bet all clues all on the thesis...

JMA: There it is.

JF: …abduction?

JMA: There is a very good theory of information analysis that has to do with the criminal investigation that is the ... the hypotheses in competition, and that there were 3 already, according to Gonçalo Amaral himself said, the homicide, it was abduction and it was the accident, right. Now, I think that ... this was not the only thing I said either. I said that the investigator in relation to a situation has several suspects and, as a historic of the Judiciary Police said, Chief Viegas, from the Algarve, “my son, in principle everyone is a suspect, then we will eliminate, and no one can be feel offended”…

JF: And was that the capital sin of the PJ at the beginning of the investigations for not putting the parents as suspects...

JMA: That is...

JF: …at a first moment?

JMA: Hey man, they have to be! It is a question... this is not an offense. It is a question of cold, rational methodology.

JF: Now, José Manuel Anes, here is a revelation... it is the first exclusive revelation of this special operation of Maddie... after being present in court...

JMA: That's right ...

JF:  ...the defense of Maddie's parents invited you...

JMA: That’s right.

JF: ...to be an advisor to the McCann.

JMA: I received a very nice letter from the lawyer, but I was rude. I didn't even reply. Because I already…

JF: What did that letter say? Did it invite you to be an advisor?

JMA: Yes, to be an advisor ... in short, for the McCann defense, and I in fact...

JF: Is this the first time you say that?

JMA: It is. It is. This is a... a first-time revelation ...

JF: This is a… a worldwide exclusive…

JMA: …that I’m doing…

JF: …it’s… it's a worldwide exclusive.

JMA: I have kept that letter but, in fact, I didn't reply to it, firstly, because the house to where I was linked and worked for 20 years...

JF: In the… in the… PJ

JMA: In the PJ, in the Scientific Police Laboratory, deserves all respect. Secondly, inspector Gonçalo Amaral himself, regardless of one thing or another, who does not sometimes commit, sometimes, flaws in their professional life? And I have the greatest respect. Therefore, I did not reply. And in the middle...

JF: What was that invitation made for, in your opinion? To weaken Gonçalo Amaral?

JMA: Exactly, because they asked me “ah, but do you think he should have written the book?” I said, "look, I wouldn't do it, but those who know that he was harassed ..." Inspector Gonçalo Amaral is a martyr of the investigation, I should say. I even think it was in one of the “Prós and Contras” that I said, I was with Francisco Moita Flores and I said “look, the criminal investigation in this case was the victim of the leak… of a bad… of the press”. Bad, what do I mean by that? The press has every right to report, to question…

JF: To investigate as well, right?

JMA: To investigate as well. However, the criminal investigation should read few newspapers, especially in case so mediatic as this one.

JF: Now, Professor, tell me something, also based on your ... well, on your experience, you have just... stressed that you spent 20 years at PJ, in relation to this new suspect of the German lead, the... the... this man's profile fits as someone who was responsible for Maddie's abduction and murder?

JMA: He fits. In fact, he has the worst record and a profile in relation to this type of crime. Now, I think it is essential to have evidence, and inspector Gonçalo Amaral I believe that ... he observed him but there was nothing concrete about him. Even the Irish say that the person they saw passing with the child in his arms, who was not this...

JF: That is... it is an information extremely...

JMA: …and therefore is not true...

JF: …relevant and very recent.

JMA: …and deserves now, it may be but there is nothing concrete, right.

JF: Professor, a very good afternoon and thank you for your participation in this special CMTV operation. Maddie, the Enigma, a worldwide exclusive revelation, Manuel Anes was invited by the McCanns' defense to be an advisor to Maddie's parents.

http://textusa.blogspot.com/2020/06/jose-manuel-anes-cmtv-june-27-2020-1520.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2020, 05:21:00 PM
I will say this for the last time as it didn't get through last time!

15 alleles matching Madeleine was found in the boot NOT on the key.

I reiterate ... Eddie did not alert to the boot.  He studiously ignored the boot despite his handler directing him to it.   Watch the video.
He alerted only to the key fob both when it was in the door pocket and when it was removed and hidden.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 28, 2020, 05:22:33 PM
are you seriously saying he has not said maddie died in the apartment due to an accident...due to calpol...that her parents covered up the death...are you serios...have you read his book...have you listened to his documentary.......thats what he said...now he is not saying it...thats backtracking.  it looks to me that the only tyhing that reallistically could cause this is the ECHR case has started

Yes, I'm serios. he says Maddie died in the apartment but doesn't know-how

Not murdered so how else would it be apart from an accident. That is how I see it

Unless you think the so-called abductor caused the accident and took Maddie with him.

He is still saying I believe however you look at it Maddie wasn't abducted.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 05:27:56 PM
I reiterate ... Eddie did not alert to the boot.  He studiously ignored the boot despite his handler directing him to it.   Watch the video.
He alerted only to the key fob both when it was in the door pocket and when it was removed and hidden.

Eddie alerted to scent coming from the vehicle and you don't know where the source was because he was not put inside it. That is when other evidence comes into play.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 05:28:41 PM
He says Maddie died in the apartment - what he doesn't know is how, or what the circumstances were.

I cant see how you can say he is backtracking that only seems that way to you your opinion as usual.
.



Talk about simulation because it wasn't kidnapping, is that it?


I explain. How could a possible abductor enter the apartment? One way would be with a false key, but after that this clue was not confirmed, and the other was to enter through a door that was open. That apartment is a ground floor that has a main wooden door and a sliding door at the rear that opened onto the garden and further down the restaurant area where everyone was dining. Therefore, if there is a kidnapper to leave no marks, this would be the entry point. But within that line of implying that the children were safe, it was invented that a window was found open, but there is great confusion in the statements because some say they were open, others did not know. but there is one thing that the child's mother says in statements and that is that when she was in the apartment that window was always closed, with the shutters closed. What is asked is why that night the only fingerprint that appears in the window is that of the child's mother and not of an alleged abductor.


Those were the doubts you always had?

These are not doubts. They are certainties. We are sure that no one passed through there. If anyone comes to say that they entered and left the window, it is completely a lie.

 

The only thing missing is where Maddie is at all, or what happened to her?

That is another matter. The child died in that apartment, the circumstances are that we do not know. The Judiciary Police does not accuse anyone of murder ...
How on earth can he be 100% certain no one entered or left via the window?  Is he mad?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 05:31:26 PM
Forensics found no evidence of anybody passing through that window.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 05:33:04 PM
Yes, I'm serios. he says Maddie died in the apartment but doesn't know-how

Not murdered so how else would it be apart from an accident. That is how I see it

Unless you think the so-called abductor caused the accident and took Maddie with him.

He is still saying I believe however you look at it Maddie wasn't abducted.
How does  he claim to know Madeleine died in the apartment but also knows she wasn’t murdered - is he mad?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 05:34:32 PM
Forensics found no evidence of anybody passing through that window.
So what?  Just because no evidence was found doesn’t a) mean there actually was no evidence and b) doesn’t mean that anyone leaving or entering via the window would deposit great chunks of evidence on it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 05:35:21 PM
Yes, I'm serios. he says Maddie died in the apartment but doesn't know-how

Not murdered so how else would it be apart from an accident. That is how I see it

Unless you think the so-called abductor caused the accident and took Maddie with him.

He is still saying I believe however you look at it Maddie wasn't abducted.

You seem  a little out of touch with the facts...are you really not aware what amaral previously claimed...I know what hes claiming now...hes backtracking on his claims re the parents involvement
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 05:43:11 PM
So what?  Just because no evidence was found doesn’t a) mean there actually was no evidence and b) doesn’t mean that anyone leaving or entering via the window would deposit great chunks of evidence on it.

You have to put your foot on the ledge to get in or out. It is a very narrow window. If you can show me another way of getting though it with a child and leave no trace let's have it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 05:44:39 PM
You have to put your foot on the ledge to get in or out. It is a very narrow window. If you can show me another way of getting though it with a child and leave no trace let's have it?

the abductor and child amy well have left through the front door. You are making all the same mistakes as the nPJ made
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 05:45:40 PM
the abductor and child amy well have left through the front door. You are making all the same mistakes as the nPJ made

I'm not making a mistake. I'm responding to VS.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 05:48:51 PM
I'm not making a mistake. I'm responding to VS.

i would say your logic is full of mistakes ...same as amaral and the PJs logic
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 28, 2020, 05:53:35 PM
How does  he claim to know Madeleine died in the apartment but also knows she wasn’t murdered - is he mad?

Simple, Because he believes it was an accident.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 05:59:06 PM
Simple, Because he believes it was an accident.

he claimed it was an accident ...covered up by the parents. Who then lied to the police and opened  a fraudulaent fund. then we have his claim MI5 were involved in the cover up. have you forgotten all this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 06:01:07 PM
So what?  Just because no evidence was found doesn’t a) mean there actually was no evidence and b) doesn’t mean that anyone leaving or entering via the window would deposit great chunks of evidence on it.

Its quite hard to climb in and out of a window carrying a child and not leave any forensic evidence. In fact it's quite hard full stop! IMO this part of the story was very quickly discounted by any serious investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 28, 2020, 06:05:37 PM

The Truth of the Lie Chapter 22 Amaral says this -  The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd

Amaral doesn't say he thinks she died or maybe she died,   he said she died.   He believed that to be true.
He doesn't say he thinks she died or maybe she died he says she died.
Soz, Lace, but I see no reason to believe Amaral thinking that to be true.  I am talking about Amaral saying  - "The minor, Madeleine McCann died in apartment 5A ………on May 3rd."

The man has a history of deception and lies and he wanted the case wrapped up quickly with the Mccanns the fall guys.  IMO

Just like he and Cristovao rapidly wrapped up Leonor and Joao Cipriano.  The truth didn't matter in that case, why should it in the McCann case?

Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 06:24:24 PM
You have to put your foot on the ledge to get in or out. It is a very narrow window. If you can show me another way of getting though it with a child and leave no trace let's have it?
so what if you have to put a foot on a ledge?  I didn’t expect anyone would fly out without touching the sides.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 06:25:26 PM
Simple, Because he believes it was an accident.
why?  Based on what?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 28, 2020, 06:26:58 PM
he claimed it was an accident ...covered up by the parents. Who then lied to the police and opened  a fraudulaent fund. then we have his claim MI5 were involved in the cover up. have you forgotten all this.


We all know what he claimed and is still claiming now - no backtracking

His opinion hasn't changed from writing the book - and seems he is writing another one that is the reason for all the interviews D

No way imo nothing to do with the ECHR
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 06:29:29 PM
Its quite hard to climb in and out of a window carrying a child and not leave any forensic evidence. In fact it's quite hard full stop! IMO this part of the story was very quickly discounted by any serious investigation.
What forensic evidence are you expecting to find?  How do you know it wasn’t the incompetent PT forensic team who overlooked a crucial piece of evidence left behind?  Amaral states it is impossible.  How can he be so categoric?  It means that every time a criminal breaks into a building via an unlocked window he leaves behind a ton of forensic evidence, and yet they clear up rate for burglaries is tiny.  How come?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 06:29:39 PM

We all know what he claimed and is still claiming now - not backtracking

No he is not claiming it now... See your recent post... He is not claiming anything about accidental death.. Calpol... Cover ups... That's why I say he's backtracking... And it may well be the ECHR investigation is underway
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 28, 2020, 06:31:14 PM
Its quite hard to climb in and out of a window carrying a child and not leave any forensic evidence. In fact it's quite hard full stop! IMO this part of the story was very quickly discounted by any serious investigation.
Though someone like Brückner has a history of getting through apartment windows to steal goods, it doesn’t mean it was also the exit point with a child?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 28, 2020, 06:33:24 PM
No he is not claiming it now... See your recent post... He is not claiming anything about accidental death.. Calpol... Cover ups... That's why I say he's backtracking... And it may well be the ECHR investigation is underway

Nothing to do with ECHR AS I have just posted.

It seems he is writing another book - that is why he is doing all the interviews
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 06:38:19 PM
Though someone like Brückner has a history of getting through apartment windows to steal goods,

Cite please - and do we know this because he left evidence of it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 28, 2020, 06:39:53 PM
are you seriously saying he has not said maddie died in the apartment due to an accident...due to calpol...that her parents covered up the death...are you serious...have you read his book...have you listened to his documentary.......thats what he said...now he is not saying it...thats backtracking.  it looks to me that the only tyhing that reallistically could cause this is the ECHR case has started

Or it could be that Amaral, since 2017, now KNOWS that the case is solved and it will prove that his previous words are disingenuous or worse?

Could he be trying to protect himself from the backlash?  Sliding away from what he said?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 06:41:30 PM
Nothing to do with ECHR AS I have just posted.

It seems he is writing another book - that is why he is doing all the interviews

cite for its got nothingb to do with the ECHR...you dont know that

Cite for another book...

you seem to be making things up as you go along
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 06:45:34 PM
Nothing to do with ECHR AS I have just posted.

It seems he is writing another book - that is why he is doing all the interviews
He’s been writing another book for years.  What is it, “War and Pissed”?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 28, 2020, 06:45:47 PM
Cite please - and do we know this because he left evidence of it?


Exactly - it seems he left evidence all over the place.

Yet the abduction was the absolute perfect crime.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 28, 2020, 06:49:40 PM
cite for its got nothingb to do with the ECHR...you dont know that

Cite for another book...

you seem to be making things up as you go along

HOW, You have seen the ECHR is at a standstill.

I'm making things up lol - don't use reverse tactics on me. D
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 28, 2020, 06:51:07 PM
Cite please - and do we know this because he left evidence of it?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/04/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bruckner-fled-police-in-1995
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 06:53:34 PM
A witness who gave evidence at the rape trial said he had seen him “climb through open windows in one or another holiday flat”. The witness said Brückner told close friends how he went after “tourist shit” like cameras, video cameras, passports, wallets or loose change, sometimes entering apartments while the occupants were taking a siesta or during the night.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 06:55:58 PM
HOW, You have seen the ECHR is at a standstill.

I'm making things up lol - don't use reverse tactics on me. D
I stick by my claim that amaral is backtracking and in his recent interviews has not repeated his libellous claims...it is quite reasonable to suspect this may be due to the involvement of the ECHR. The ECHR will not have totally stoppped.
Your claim amaral might be writing a new book is based on nothing....just a made up story...where did you get it from
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 28, 2020, 06:56:15 PM

Exactly - it seems he left evidence all over the place.

Yet the abduction was the absolute perfect crime.
I don’t think many think it was the perfect crime. I remember reference to; ‘in whatever way Madeleine left the apartment, everything points to abduction’. Cf. Andy Redwood.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on June 28, 2020, 06:56:36 PM
He’s been writing another book for years.  What is it, “War and Pissed”?

1,225 pages long?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 06:56:42 PM
What forensic evidence are you expecting to find?  How do you know it wasn’t the incompetent PT forensic team who overlooked a crucial piece of evidence left behind?  Amaral states it is impossible.  How can he be so categoric?  It means that every time a criminal breaks into a building via an unlocked window he leaves behind a ton of forensic evidence, and yet they clear up rate for burglaries is tiny.  How come?

Marks/prints when you have to use your hands and feet to get through a window. An early PJ theory was that Matt passed Madeleine through the window to Russell to explain no evidence being found. They could not believe that Matt did not see Madeleine on that check and Russell was gone for 20 minutes because he was hiding her.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 06:58:53 PM
Marks/prints when you have to use your hands and feet to get through a window. An early PJ theory was that Matt passed Madeleine through the window to Russell to explain no evidence being found. They could not believe that Matt did not see Madeleine on that check and Russell was gone for 20 minutes because he was hiding her.
Gloves on hand, socks on feet what forensic evidence would you hope to find?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 07:01:17 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/04/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-bruckner-fled-police-in-1995

Thank you.  *&(+(+

It's not much to go on though and not clear if this was said at the trial or to a reporter. I'm not disputing it but neither taking it as gospel... and I bet he would have left evidence as he climbed through the window(s) in question, imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 07:03:08 PM
Thank you.  *&(+(+

It's not much to go on though and not clear if this was said at the trial or to a reporter. I'm not disputing it but neither taking it as gospel... and I bet he would have left evidence as he climbed through the window(s) in question, imo.
Evidence such as what? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 07:08:18 PM
this is todays screenshot showing the application number. if Gunit had it i dont see why she didnt share it.
This wont change until some judgement is made...the case may well be under investigation/consideration at the moment..which would explain Amarals strange statements recently
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2020, 07:11:51 PM
Gloves on hand, socks on feet what forensic evidence would you hope to find?

Don't be Ridiculous. You obviously know nothing about forensics because they look for glove marks!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 07:16:43 PM
Don't be Ridiculous. You obviously know nothing about forensics because they look for glove marks!
If you’re going to be rude there’s no point continuing the discussion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on June 28, 2020, 07:19:36 PM
Thank you.  *&(+(+

It's not much to go on though and not clear if this was said at the trial or to a reporter. I'm not disputing it but neither taking it as gospel... and I bet he would have left evidence as he climbed through the window(s) in question, imo.
Madeleine’s disappearance will probably be solved by DNA recognition which has made extraordinary progress since she has disappeared. That is my thinking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 28, 2020, 07:34:16 PM
Madeleine’s disappearance will probably be solved by DNA recognition which has made extraordinary progress since she has disappeared. That is my thinking.
Agreed. And exactly what Snr Amaral alluded to last week.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2020, 07:38:28 PM
Agreed. And exactly what Snr Amaral alluded to last week.

he said it would be solved when MI5 opens its files ...seems like hes hedging his bets
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 28, 2020, 07:42:08 PM
he said it would be solved when MI5 opens its files ...seems like hes hedging his bets
That will be interesting for sure!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 09:11:19 PM
Evidence such as what?

Marks on window from gloved hands and footwear. Fibres from clothing, for example.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oIjLBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA324&lpg=PA324&dq=forensic+science+evidence+of+entry+through+a+window&source=bl&ots=Ejg1_KcWmS&sig=ACfU3U3uRfpRjm8FzB1unJiK3f4ib1Mung&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjvk9X0qKXqAhV0oVwKHeAqDA8Q6AEwEHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=forensic%20science%20evidence%20of%20entry%20through%20a%20window&f=false
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 09:25:48 PM
Marks on window from gloved hands and footwear. Fibres from clothing, for example.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oIjLBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA324&lpg=PA324&dq=forensic+science+evidence+of+entry+through+a+window&source=bl&ots=Ejg1_KcWmS&sig=ACfU3U3uRfpRjm8FzB1unJiK3f4ib1Mung&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjvk9X0qKXqAhV0oVwKHeAqDA8Q6AEwEHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=forensic%20science%20evidence%20of%20entry%20through%20a%20window&f=false
Have you ever been broken into?  I have.  Years ago.  Front door forced, flat door smashed, drawers opened, contents strewn, flat ransacked, forensic team attended, no forensics found.  I guess I robbed and ransacked myself then!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 28, 2020, 09:28:56 PM
Have you ever been broken into?  I have.  Years ago.  Front door forced, flat door smashed, drawers opened, contents strewn, flat ransacked, forensic team attended, no forensics found.  I guess I robbed and ransacked myself then!

Yes I have and there was evidence of forced entry. But don't take my word for it. There's a whole host of forensic science books and articles out there that describe what evidence might be left behind.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 28, 2020, 09:32:54 PM
Marks on window from gloved hands and footwear. Fibres from clothing, for example.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oIjLBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA324&lpg=PA324&dq=forensic+science+evidence+of+entry+through+a+window&source=bl&ots=Ejg1_KcWmS&sig=ACfU3U3uRfpRjm8FzB1unJiK3f4ib1Mung&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjvk9X0qKXqAhV0oVwKHeAqDA8Q6AEwEHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=forensic%20science%20evidence%20of%20entry%20through%20a%20window&f=false

If we are to follow the narrative as told by the parents, the shutters were jemmied open- the curtains were whooshing all over the place the very small window needed a tall man carrying a 3 year old asleep (a dead weight with no control over arms and legs dangling) getting out of that small space with a child and jemmy (Jamming tool AKA Crow bar) without as much as a scuff mark on those nice white walls...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 28, 2020, 11:15:47 PM
If we are to follow the narrative as told by the parents, the shutters were jemmied open- the curtains were whooshing all over the place the very small window needed a tall man carrying a 3 year old asleep (a dead weight with no control over arms and legs dangling) getting out of that small space with a child and jemmy (Jamming tool AKA Crow bar) without as much as a scuff mark on those nice white walls...

Wasn't there some sedation equipment too? I expect he took a little run-up and hurdled through without touching the sides. He's lucky her didn't get entangled in those flapping curtains imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 28, 2020, 11:35:17 PM
Wasn't there some sedation equipment too? I expect he took a little run-up and hurdled through without touching the sides. He's lucky her didn't get entangled in those flapping curtains imo.
How very droll.  Of course the idea that an experienced burglar could either enter or exit through an unlocked ground floor window without leaving any incriminating evidence is beyond far fetched, anyone would have needed supernatural powers in such a circumstance. obviously.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 29, 2020, 12:32:15 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/06/mccanns-may-renew-legal-battle-portuguese-police-chief/

Words really do fail me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2020, 01:52:24 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/06/mccanns-may-renew-legal-battle-portuguese-police-chief/

Words really do fail me.

I don't actually think they said anything of the kind, it's crazy imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 29, 2020, 07:26:50 AM
I don't actually think they said anything of the kind, it's crazy imo.
The whole article can be summed up in the following para (spoken by “a friend of the family”)

“It wouldn’t surprise me that they would resume and pursue their legal action to their satisfaction in due course. But, that isn’t a priority at the moment.”

I hope they do go after him again, when it’s proven once and for all they didn’t do it.  I would, certainly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 29, 2020, 08:25:06 AM
The whole article can be summed up in the following para (spoken by “a friend of the family”)

“It wouldn’t surprise me that they would resume and pursue their legal action to their satisfaction in due course. But, that isn’t a priority at the moment.”

I hope they do go after him again, when it’s proven once and for all they didn’t do it.  I would, certainly.

Can't see it happening,it'll be a Ben Needham closer of a sorts imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 29, 2020, 08:26:09 AM
Can't see it happening,it'll be a Ben Needham closer of a sorts imo.
You hope.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 29, 2020, 08:37:00 AM
You hope.

I hope for nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 29, 2020, 08:40:23 AM
Don't be Ridiculous. You obviously know nothing about forensics because they look for glove marks!

I read the article about the glove marks.   It says they show up as smudges,   now I don't know how they can distinguish between an actual smudge and a glove mark.   They say sometimes the person will sweat and leave a print through the glove or the glove may roll down exposing the hand.    Maybe none of that happened and there was just a smudge?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 29, 2020, 08:46:37 AM
If we are to follow the narrative as told by the parents, the shutters were jemmied open- the curtains were whooshing all over the place the very small window needed a tall man carrying a 3 year old asleep (a dead weight with no control over arms and legs dangling) getting out of that small space with a child and jemmy (Jamming tool AKA Crow bar) without as much as a scuff mark on those nice white walls...


Sorry you seem to have got a little muddled.   Kate didn't say the man went through the window with Madeleine.  Gerry didn't say they used a crow bar,  though he said the shutters were broken as they were able to raise them from outside.

Maybe the Police should check the fingerprints on the windows this person went through to burgle apartments,  they would have taken fingerprints right?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 29, 2020, 09:08:34 AM
I will say this for the last time as it didn't get through last time!

15 alleles matching Madeleine was found in the boot NOT on the key.


The key fob had Gerry's blood on it I believe,  remember that Grime said the scent can waft into corners etc.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 29, 2020, 09:32:31 AM

Sorry you seem to have got a little muddled.   Kate didn't say the man went through the window with Madeleine.  Gerry didn't say they used a crow bar,  though he said the shutters were broken as they were able to raise them from outside.

Maybe the Police should check the fingerprints on the windows this person went through to burgle apartments,  they would have taken fingerprints right?

The only fingerprints the PJ found were kmccs on the window right. so non of CB. right
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 29, 2020, 09:35:31 AM
The only fingerprints the PJ found were kmccs on the window right. so non of CB. right

Have the Police got finger prints from the person who broke into apartments and sexually abused children?  They are the fingerprints they need to match.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 29, 2020, 09:37:10 AM
I don't actually think they said anything of the kind, it's crazy imo.

I have been posting that amaral is no longer posting his defamatory commnets...now this comes up. Looks like I was right... You would have to be blind not to see theres something going on...imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 29, 2020, 09:42:56 AM
Have the Police got finger prints from the person who broke into apartments and sexually abused children?  They are the fingerprints they need to match.


What with ???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 29, 2020, 09:43:44 AM

What with ???


Christian B.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 29, 2020, 09:47:50 AM

What with ???


Christian B.

There were only kmcc fingerprints on the window.

Seriously don't you think CB fingerprints would have been checked already?

The clue is as well there were no evidence of an abductor entering or leaving 5A.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 29, 2020, 09:51:19 AM
There were only kmcc fingerprints on the window.

Seriously don't you think CB fingerprints would have been checked already?

The clue is as well there were no evidence of an abductor entering or leaving 5A.


Do I think CB's fingerprints would have been checked already?   No I don't. IMO

Kate would leave fingerprints if she looked out of the window when she found Madeleine missing IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 29, 2020, 09:59:13 AM

Do I think CB's fingerprints would have been checked already?   No I don't. IMO

Kate would leave fingerprints if she looked out of the window when she found Madeleine missing IMO

What CB is supposed to be prime suspect - and they won't have checked his prints against any found in 5A

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 29, 2020, 10:21:57 AM
What CB is supposed to be prime suspect - and they won't have checked his prints against any found in 5A

I'm not talking about 5a I'm talking about the apartments where a man molested children in their beds.  The Portuguese knew about this man so they should have fingerprints or DNA of him to compare with Christian B.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 29, 2020, 10:27:50 AM
I'm not talking about 5a I'm talking about the apartments where a man molested children in their beds.  The Portuguese knew about this man so they should have fingerprints or DNA of him to compare with Christian B.


i understand exactly what yoiu are saying...the problem is did the PJ check for fingerprints or dna at these crimes
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 29, 2020, 10:30:00 AM

i understand exactly what yoiu are saying...the problem is did the PJ check for fingerprints or dna at these crimes

No, the question is were they kept.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 29, 2020, 10:31:17 AM
I'm not talking about 5a I'm talking about the apartments where a man molested children in their beds.  The Portuguese knew about this man so they should have fingerprints or DNA of him to compare with Christian B.


And you don't think it'll all have been checked already ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 29, 2020, 10:32:18 AM
No, the question is were they kept.

Do they not go onto a data base for access throughout Europe ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 29, 2020, 10:34:58 AM
Do they not go onto a data base for access throughout Europe ?

I'm sure I've read at the time of these incidents there wasn't a europe wide data base.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 29, 2020, 11:43:08 AM

And you don't think it'll all have been checked already ?

No.  Otherwise the German Police wouldn't be asking for the forensic evidence.

Amaral always said there was no way anyone could break into 5a,  yet he never compared what happened to the burglaries of the pot bellied man.   He didn't wonder to himself how that man managed to get into the apartments.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 29, 2020, 11:48:39 AM
No.  Otherwise the German Police wouldn't be asking for the forensic evidence.

Amaral always said there was no way anyone could break into 5a,  yet he never compared what happened to the burglaries of the pot bellied man.   He didn't wonder to himself how that man managed to get into the apartments.

You were talking about other apartments where children were molested, not specifically 5A
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 29, 2020, 12:31:12 PM
I don't actually think they said anything of the kind, it's crazy imo.

You would hope not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2020, 12:43:27 PM
No.  Otherwise the German Police wouldn't be asking for the forensic evidence.

Amaral always said there was no way anyone could break into 5a,  yet he never compared what happened to the burglaries of the pot bellied man.   He didn't wonder to himself how that man managed to get into the apartments.

Were those alleged crimes reported to the PJ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 29, 2020, 02:02:33 PM
Were those alleged crimes reported to the PJ?

I do wish you would refrain from the use of "alleged" when you know that there is nothing alleged about it.  I believe some were and some weren't reported but it was a situation well known to the authorities (Kate was told about it after Madeleine's disappearance) and it should have been a factor in Amaral's strategy instead of the expediency of the one he settled on.

But there certainly appears to be a culture inherent in the psyche of police in Portugal which condones ineptitude and failure to respect the rights of women and children who have suffered serious assault - particularly foreign ones - when it comes to protecting the tourist trade.
I think it might very well come back to bite them.

It was epitomised by Amaral and his shoddy conduct of Madeleine's case.  I wonder why it took the Germans to get justice for the American woman who was tortured and raped in Portugal.  Or the disgrace of discarding the evidence in the case of the Irish woman whose torture and rape might have proved a link between Madeleine's disappearance or both rape cases.

Portuguese prosecutors DESTROYED vital DNA evidence from brutal five-hour sex attack linked to Christian Brueckner just weeks before Madeleine McCann vanished, court papers reveal
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8442487/Portuguese-prosecutors-DESTROYED-vital-DNA-evidence.html

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
I do wish you would refrain from the use of "alleged" when you know that there is nothing alleged about it.  I believe some were and some weren't reported but it was a situation well known to the authorities (Kate was told about it after Madeleine's disappearance) and it should have been a factor in Amaral's strategy instead of the expediency of the one he settled on.

But there certainly appears to be a culture inherent in the psyche of police in Portugal which condones ineptitude and failure to respect the rights of women and children who have suffered serious assault - particularly foreign ones - when it comes to protecting the tourist trade.
I think it might very well come back to bite them.

It was epitomised by Amaral and his shoddy conduct of Madeleine's case.  I wonder why it took the Germans to get justice for the American woman who was tortured and raped in Portugal.  Or the disgrace of discarding the evidence in the case of the Irish woman whose torture and rape might have proved a link between Madeleine's disappearance or both rape cases.

Portuguese prosecutors DESTROYED vital DNA evidence from brutal five-hour sex attack linked to Christian Brueckner just weeks before Madeleine McCann vanished, court papers reveal
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8442487/Portuguese-prosecutors-DESTROYED-vital-DNA-evidence.html

The police are supposed to follow the evidence they have. If my house was broken into and they couldn't find any evidence I very much doubt they would use evidence from another burglary elsewhere, unless there was similar evidence linking the two crimes. I can see nothing which suggests any link.

As for destroying evidence, the FSS intended to destroy perishable samples (blood, saliva and swabs)  in the McCann case within 21 days of 21/08/2007. Only the defendant or his legal representative could ask them not to do that.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 29, 2020, 05:04:45 PM
The police are supposed to follow the evidence they have. If my house was broken into and they couldn't find any evidence I very much doubt they would use evidence from another burglary elsewhere, unless there was similar evidence linking the two crimes. I can see nothing which suggests any link.

As for destroying evidence, the FSS intended to destroy perishable samples (blood, saliva and swabs)  in the McCann case within 21 days of 21/08/2007. Only the defendant or his legal representative could ask them not to do that.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

the FSS may have had to destroy samples due to the law...but they would hacve kept the reults of the dna tests on them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2020, 05:16:31 PM
the FSS may have had to destroy samples due to the law...but they would hacve kept the reults of the dna tests on them.

Is there a similar law in Portugal?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 29, 2020, 05:25:51 PM
Is there a similar law in Portugal?

acccording to reports there is no DNA from the rape of the irish girl to check against CB...no DNA to test and no DNA results kept either
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 29, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
acccording to reports there is no DNA from the rape of the irish girl to check against CB...no DNA to test and no DNA results kept either

We only know that because of her bravery in renouncing her anonymity on hearing of the rape of the American woman, the circumstances of which had such similarity to her own.  I think it is shocking.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 29, 2020, 05:58:46 PM
Was the Irish rape reported at the time, i.e. next day ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2020, 09:44:17 PM
We only know that because of her bravery in renouncing her anonymity on hearing of the rape of the American woman, the circumstances of which had such similarity to her own.  I think it is shocking.

There's been a lot of people bravely speaking to the media in this case. They all claim to have bravely spoken to the police too, but did they?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 29, 2020, 11:24:41 PM
the FSS may have had to destroy samples due to the law...but they would hacve kept the reults of the dna tests on them.

(https://i.ibb.co/8NK96L5/1593469400696.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on June 29, 2020, 11:39:25 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/8NK96L5/1593469400696.jpg)

That's good to know!!!!  8((()*/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on June 29, 2020, 11:56:05 PM
Was the Irish rape reported at the time, i.e. next day ?

Reported in 2004


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 30, 2020, 12:56:27 AM
There's been a lot of people bravely speaking to the media in this case. They all claim to have bravely spoken to the police too, but did they?

Please do not mock my description of the bravery of the victim of a bestial rape relinquishing her right to anonymity in an effort to assist the police in their many faceted inquiry into heinous crimes, one part of which involves Madeleine McCann.
It is unbecoming.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 30, 2020, 01:10:05 AM
Please do not mock my description of the bravery of the victim of a bestial rape relinquishing her right to anonymity in an effort to assist the police in their many faceted inquiry into heinous crimes, one part of which involves Madeleine McCann.
It is unbecoming.

I applaud her bravery in assisting the police...it must have been a horrendous experience. Not entirely sure though how reliving her ordeal on the front covers of the tabloids helped though. Perhaps you can explain ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2020, 07:26:54 AM
Of course.  Rape victims should do us all a favour and shut their big fat mouths.  We don’t want to know the sordid details of their traumatic ordeal thanks very much, especially if it happened on the beautiful, lovely, crime free Algarve where the police are so incredibly brilliant at catching and prosecuting rapists (that don’t exist because Portugal is ranked number 3 on the World Peace index and is therefore virtually paradise on earth where the only bad thing that ever happened was child neglect and body occultation by some lousy Brits).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 30, 2020, 08:11:19 AM
Of course.  Rape victims should do us all a favour and shut their big fat mouths.  We don’t want to know the sordid details of their traumatic ordeal thanks very much, especially if it happened on the beautiful, lovely, crime free Algarve where the police are so incredibly brilliant at catching and prosecuting rapists (that don’t exist because Portugal is ranked number 3 on the World Peace index and is therefore virtually paradise on earth where the only bad thing that ever happened was child neglect and body occultation by some lousy Brits).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/police-officer-given-12-years-for-bestial-rapes-of-two-women-9260789.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-52400032

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-35595493

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/24/met-police-officer-found-guilty-raping-woman-holiday-antigua/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2020, 08:12:51 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/police-officer-given-12-years-for-bestial-rapes-of-two-women-9260789.html
And this is supposed to prove what exactly Holly? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on June 30, 2020, 08:21:37 AM
I applaud her bravery in assisting the police...it must have been a horrendous experience. Not entirely sure though how reliving her ordeal on the front covers of the tabloids helped though. Perhaps you can explain ?

Possibly to encourage any other victims (or even acquaintances) to contact the police?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2020, 08:24:05 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/police-officer-given-12-years-for-bestial-rapes-of-two-women-9260789.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-52400032

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-35595493

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/24/met-police-officer-found-guilty-raping-woman-holiday-antigua/

Are you aware that recently  a rapist who was found guilty of a brutal rape of a Uk hitch hiker in portugal received a suspended sentence...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2020, 08:28:02 AM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/police-officer-given-12-years-for-bestial-rapes-of-two-women-9260789.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-52400032

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-35595493

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/24/met-police-officer-found-guilty-raping-woman-holiday-antigua/
What do you think you are proving by posting these links Holly?  Do you know what a strawman argument is?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2020, 08:46:25 AM
Shall we share it Barrier?

I actually know the number but its basically a piece of pretty useless information. You may think it gives an up to date account of where the case is...it doesnt.

Barrier quoted another case from  Portugal raised after the Mccan case which shows the case has been referred back to portugal. In fact that case has already been settled. The site you are relying on for up to date information is up to two months out of date. we will know about any judgement before it appears on the site you rely on.

As I have said it may well be  that discussions have begun re this case and that would explain  amarals change of track in his recent interviews. Now we have a story breaking that the McCanns may return to court to sue amaral for defamation. Nothing certain but its all starting to add up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 30, 2020, 09:01:04 AM
I actually know the number but its basically a piece of pretty useless information. You may think it gives an up to date account of where the case is...it doesnt.

Barrier quoted another case from  Portugal raised after the Mccan case which shows the case has been referred back to portugal. In fact that case has already been settled. The site you are relying on for up to date information is up to two months out of date. we will know about any judgement before it appears on the site you rely on.

As I have said it may well be  that discussions have begun re this case and that would explain  amarals change of track in his recent interviews. Now we have a story breaking that the McCanns may return to court to sue amaral for defamation. Nothing certain but its all starting to add up.

If the McCanns try to sue Amaral again they are gluttons for punishment imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2020, 09:04:32 AM
If the McCanns try to sue Amaral again they are gluttons for punishment imo.

That just your opinion....I think they will as Ive posted many times over the past couple of years they may well sue again...for defamation and may well have a cast iron case. I think this is exactly why amaral has reined in his defamatory statements
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 30, 2020, 12:37:31 PM
Possibly to encourage any other victims (or even acquaintances) to contact the police?

The problem is that if the case does go to court the defence can manipulate her actions and suggest that she is making things up for the publicity...or money if she was paid. To be clear I don’t think she has but it’s perception rather then truth in court.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on June 30, 2020, 01:42:03 PM
That just your opinion....I think they will as Ive posted many times over the past couple of years they may well sue again...for defamation and may well have a cast iron case. I think this is exactly why amaral has reined in his defamatory statements
Which defamatory statements?
And I hope they do have another pop, just using their own money this time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 30, 2020, 01:52:46 PM
Possibly to encourage any other victims (or even acquaintances) to contact the police?

I think she may have told the Police about her rape as no one has been arrested for it.   She said it was very similar to the rape of the 72 year old and thinks it was Christian B who raped her.   Unfortunately the DNA has been destroyed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on June 30, 2020, 01:53:48 PM
You would think the Police would have kept the evidence if no one had been arrested for the crime.  Strange.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on June 30, 2020, 02:00:52 PM
I think she may have told the Police about her rape as no one has been arrested for it.   She said it was very similar to the rape of the 72 year old and thinks it was Christian B who raped her.  Unfortunately the DNA has been destroyed.

Have the PJ stated this as a fact ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 30, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
That just your opinion....I think they will as Ive posted many times over the past couple of years they may well sue again...for defamation and may well have a cast iron case. I think this is exactly why amaral has reined in his defamatory statements


Like this one you mean.

"Enough with the lies": Gonçalo Amaral calls into question the statement of a McCann friend and believes that the solution to the Maddie case "may be in there"

Former inspector points out flaws in the German police investigation and defends Judiciary Police

The former inspector of the Judiciary Police (PJ), Gonçalo Amaral, said this Saturday during an interview with CMTV, that "nothing has been proven" so far in the case of the disappearance of Maddie from Praia da Luz, in May 2007, and believes that "Portugal is in a position to crack the Maddie case".

Gonçalo Amaral recalled that an investigation is confined to facts and, based on them, conclusions are advanced or not. According to the former PJ, in the September 2007 interim report on the case of the disappearance of the English child, the hypothesis was that a corpse was concealed. However, Gonçalo Amaral reminds that there was no accusation, in an allusion to the most recent investigations by the German and English police.

At a time when the German police have new leads on the case, Gonçalo Amaral said that, so far, "nothing has been proven".


As for the English authorities, Amaral believes that they too "are looking for paedophiles who fit in the abduction theory, without however proving that there has been an abduction".

"Enough with the lies", said Amaral, referring to the statement of the couple’s friend, Jane Tanner, who alleged that she saw a man carrying a child on the night of the child's disappearance. The inspector said that Tanner lied in her statement about the time, place and direction in which she saw the man and that she should, at the present time, make a "sworn statement". "The solution may be in that", alerted the former inspector.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2020, 02:12:39 PM

Like this one you mean.

"Enough with the lies": Gonçalo Amaral calls into question the statement of a McCann friend and believes that the solution to the Maddie case "may be in there"

Former inspector points out flaws in the German police investigation and defends Judiciary Police

The former inspector of the Judiciary Police (PJ), Gonçalo Amaral, said this Saturday during an interview with CMTV, that "nothing has been proven" so far in the case of the disappearance of Maddie from Praia da Luz, in May 2007, and believes that "Portugal is in a position to crack the Maddie case".

Gonçalo Amaral recalled that an investigation is confined to facts and, based on them, conclusions are advanced or not. According to the former PJ, in the September 2007 interim report on the case of the disappearance of the English child, the hypothesis was that a corpse was concealed. However, Gonçalo Amaral reminds that there was no accusation, in an allusion to the most recent investigations by the German and English police.

At a time when the German police have new leads on the case, Gonçalo Amaral said that, so far, "nothing has been proven".


As for the English authorities, Amaral believes that they too "are looking for paedophiles who fit in the abduction theory, without however proving that there has been an abduction".

"Enough with the lies", said Amaral, referring to the statement of the couple’s friend, Jane Tanner, who alleged that she saw a man carrying a child on the night of the child's disappearance. The inspector said that Tanner lied in her statement about the time, place and direction in which she saw the man and that she should, at the present time, make a "sworn statement". "The solution may be in that", alerted the former inspector.



If you read it you might understand....where in that statement is amaral accusing the aprents of sedating maddie...finding her dead after an accident....and disposing of the body. Where is he saying he can prove she died in the apartment.

have you read his book...have you watched the documentary...if you have you seem to have forgotten it all
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 30, 2020, 02:28:51 PM
If you read it you might understand....where in that statement is amaral accusing the aprents of sedating maddie...finding her dead after an accident....and disposing of the body. Where is he saying he can prove she died in the apartment.

have you read his book...have you watched the documentary...if you have you seem to have forgotten it all

Ok for argument sake he hasn't retracted it either - he is probably waiting for the right time.

Like when this CB nonsense is over. and it proves he is not the abductor.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
Ok for argument sake he hasn't retracted it either - he is probably waiting for the right time.

Like when this CB nonsense is over. and it proves he is not the abductor.

Do you think CB will be cleared then...you think there will be proof hes not the abductor....that should be interesting
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 30, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
Do you think CB will be cleared then...you think there will be proof hes not the abductor....that should be interesting

no proof but he may end up dead - what will you think then

Well have you ever known anything like it - ye but no but we have this we have that...and still, no charge D

Plus the fact I believe and still believe 100% there was no abduction in the first place.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2020, 03:09:52 PM
no proof but he may end up dead - what will you think then

Well have you ever known anything like it - ye but no but we have this we have that...and still, no charge D

Plus the fact I believe and still believe 100% there was no abduction in the first place.

I think he is quite possobly guilty and am waiting to see what happens. I think abduction is by far the most likely scenario based on the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 30, 2020, 03:18:37 PM
I think he is quite possobly guilty and am waiting to see what happens. I think abduction is by far the most likely scenario based on the evidence

Yes, but what evidence are you talking about. Seems the Germans could be getting everything from informants for money.

The amount of media reports from different people seems it could be true and not from people coming forward from appeals and there is £20.000 in the mix as well.


CC – We just recently had the anniversary marking the disappearance of Maddie McCann. Over the years, occasionally some suspects emerge, it shouldn’t be forgotten that the English police works with quite a high financial budget, what I mean by this is that it is possible to use informants, to pay to informants, to see if the police can gather criminal intelligence. Therefore, I would not be surprised that the case, this case of the German man, that is detained, in jail, is also a case stemming from intelligence collected by the BKA [German Police acronym for Bundeskriminalamt]. However, we do not know what the reliability of that information is; note that the communiqué of the German police is broad, but simultaneously also looks to grasp at something more, it speaks of vehicles, two vehicles, speaks of the stay of this individual in the area of Portimão. So, they do not seem to be very sure about concrete evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2020, 03:26:12 PM
Yes, but what evidence are you talking about. Seems the Germans could be getting everything from informants for money.

The amount of media reports from different people seems it could be true and not from people coming forward from appeals and there is £20.000 in the mix as well.


CC – We just recently had the anniversary marking the disappearance of Maddie McCann. Over the years, occasionally some suspects emerge, it shouldn’t be forgotten that the English police works with quite a high financial budget, what I mean by this is that it is possible to use informants, to pay to informants, to see if the police can gather criminal intelligence. Therefore, I would not be surprised that the case, this case of the German man, that is detained, in jail, is also a case stemming from intelligence collected by the BKA [German Police acronym for Bundeskriminalamt]. However, we do not know what the reliability of that information is; note that the communiqué of the German police is broad, but simultaneously also looks to grasp at something more, it speaks of vehicles, two vehicles, speaks of the stay of this individual in the area of Portimão. So, they do not seem to be very sure about concrete evidence.

who is CC...no doubt someone portuguese...I'm afraid you are being influenced by a lot of rubbish imo. I see no raeson to beleive that CB is not a genuine suspect found by good police work.

again...i'll wait till we hear more from the Germans...th eportuguese are simply annoyed that others are progressing with  acase where they failed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 30, 2020, 03:28:56 PM
who is CC...no doubt someone portuguese...I'm afraid you are being influenced by a lot of rubbish imo. I see no raeson to beleive that CB is not a genuine suspect found by good police work.

again...i'll wait till we hear more from the Germans...th eportuguese are simply annoyed that others are progressing with  acase where they failed

Or a case of they never failed at all and were on the right track all along.IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on June 30, 2020, 03:36:17 PM

Like this one you mean.

"Enough with the lies": Gonçalo Amaral calls into question the statement of a McCann friend and believes that the solution to the Maddie case "may be in there"

Former inspector points out flaws in the German police investigation and defends Judiciary Police

The former inspector of the Judiciary Police (PJ), Gonçalo Amaral, said this Saturday during an interview with CMTV, that "nothing has been proven" so far in the case of the disappearance of Maddie from Praia da Luz, in May 2007, and believes that "Portugal is in a position to crack the Maddie case".

Gonçalo Amaral recalled that an investigation is confined to facts and, based on them, conclusions are advanced or not. According to the former PJ, in the September 2007 interim report on the case of the disappearance of the English child, the hypothesis was that a corpse was concealed. However, Gonçalo Amaral reminds that there was no accusation, in an allusion to the most recent investigations by the German and English police.

At a time when the German police have new leads on the case, Gonçalo Amaral said that, so far, "nothing has been proven".


As for the English authorities, Amaral believes that they too "are looking for paedophiles who fit in the abduction theory, without however proving that there has been an abduction".

"Enough with the lies", said Amaral, referring to the statement of the couple’s friend, Jane Tanner, who alleged that she saw a man carrying a child on the night of the child's disappearance. The inspector said that Tanner lied in her statement about the time, place and direction in which she saw the man and that she should, at the present time, make a "sworn statement". "The solution may be in that", alerted the former inspector.




Yes, and guess what?

That man Jane Tanner saw carrying a child CAME FORWARD eventually and it turned out it was HIM she saw carrying his daughter back from night crèche

What d’you think about that, eh?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 30, 2020, 04:03:12 PM
I think he is quite possobly guilty and am waiting to see what happens. I think abduction is by far the most likely scenario based on the evidence

I admire your restraint, as ever.  Thank you at least for that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on June 30, 2020, 04:13:15 PM
who is CC...no doubt someone portuguese...I'm afraid you are being influenced by a lot of rubbish imo. I see no raeson to beleive that CB is not a genuine suspect found by good police work.

again...i'll wait till we hear more from the Germans...th eportuguese are simply annoyed that others are progressing with  acase where they failed

who is CC...no doubt someone portuguese.



Carlos Carmo, former coordinator of the Judiciary Police, analyses new developments in the investigation.


RP - And of the vestiges.

CC – And of the vestiges (nods agreeing). But I want to stress the following; there is at least one hypothesis of the practice of a crime, of exposure to abandonment of that child. Note that, the parents were with other friends celebrating their holidays, eating, and drinking, near-by the apartments. The children were in the apartment. We cannot forget that the child in question was four years old!

RP - And her brother and sister were even younger.

CC – Well then, someone that is enthralled about having fun and pays little to no attention to children that they have in the apartment, what might happen then? What can happen is that that person is placing at risk the very life of the child, because the child can be abandoned, without protection. The parents had the duty of care, of watching over those children. That did not happen. Even if it was considered as eventual intent [dolo eventual], not thinking that there was an intention by the parents for something to happen purposefully to the children, - that for me is out of the question - but in reality, if the parents were distracted with diversion, going out several times to check upon the children, the risk of death or of harm to the physical integrity could still occur. That hypothesis was weighed on right at the start. But the truth is, the parents weren’t constituted as arguidos [formal suspects] for this crime, and this crime, in my opinion, is applicable. In my view, the actions of the parents embody that crime, that is foreseen in the Penal Code, in the 138 article and is a serious crime! Since the descendants, my apologies the ascendants, are responsible for the creation of situation of danger, the crime is punishable from two up to five years, and if the child dies, the sentence can go from three up to ten years, it’s a serious crime!



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2020, 04:35:40 PM
who is CC...no doubt someone portuguese.



Carlos Carmo, former coordinator of the Judiciary Police, analyses new developments in the investigation.


RP - And of the vestiges.

CC – And of the vestiges (nods agreeing). But I want to stress the following; there is at least one hypothesis of the practice of a crime, of exposure to abandonment of that child. Note that, the parents were with other friends celebrating their holidays, eating, and drinking, near-by the apartments. The children were in the apartment. We cannot forget that the child in question was four years old!

RP - And her brother and sister were even younger.

CC – Well then, someone that is enthralled about having fun and pays little to no attention to children that they have in the apartment, what might happen then? What can happen is that that person is placing at risk the very life of the child, because the child can be abandoned, without protection. The parents had the duty of care, of watching over those children. That did not happen. Even if it was considered as eventual intent [dolo eventual], not thinking that there was an intention by the parents for something to happen purposefully to the children, - that for me is out of the question - but in reality, if the parents were distracted with diversion, going out several times to check upon the children, the risk of death or of harm to the physical integrity could still occur. That hypothesis was weighed on right at the start. But the truth is, the parents weren’t constituted as arguidos [formal suspects] for this crime, and this crime, in my opinion, is applicable. In my view, the actions of the parents embody that crime, that is foreseen in the Penal Code, in the 138 article and is a serious crime! Since the descendants, my apologies the ascendants, are responsible for the creation of situation of danger, the crime is punishable from two up to five years, and if the child dies, the sentence can go from three up to ten years, it’s a serious crime!

So hes making a fuss about neglect now...nothing about an accident in the apartmrnt and a false claim of abduction...looks like the truth is sinking in with the portuguese
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on June 30, 2020, 07:37:53 PM

Yes, and guess what?

That man Jane Tanner saw carrying a child CAME FORWARD eventually and it turned out it was HIM she saw carrying his daughter back from night crèche

What d’you think about that, eh?

What didn’t happen is that Tanner walked past a Gerry without being seen. I’ve walked up that pavement...seen who narrow it is....seen how quiet it is at that time of night...have seen sound travels. Like Wilkins I’d say it’s impossible that it happened as she said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 01, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Why did kmcc when she knew straight away that Maddie had been abducted let in 20 odd people.

That is when the crime scene was wrecked. what was the delay in calling the police? 40 mins is a long time.

They had the competence to do a timeline, yet no one had the sence it could be a crime scene.

Same as when kmcc ran out of the apartment leaving the twins ~ who could have gone when they got back.
Hmmm Hmmm



José Alberto Carvalho: Let me ask you this question Gonçalo Amaral, could Christian Brueckner be the author of… whatever happened to Madeleine McCann or not?

Gonçalo Amaral: To answer that question, it needs first to be demonstrated that there was an abduction. And what I can demonstrate is that all those people who were there lied, there was never any scheme to… monitor the children who were at home, sleeping in the apartments… they went to the apartments to use the WC, this is written in statements they made, they told the receptionist that they were going to the apartment to see their children, they didn’t say they were going to the bathroom because the bathroom by the pool didn’t have great conditions to go there, they simulated a situation of abduction with the window, with the opening of it all... saying that the window was open, it was closed, a big mess...

JAC: First it was closed, then it was open...

GA: Where, where there is only one fingerprint...

JAC: Hmmm, hmmm

GA: …that is from the child's mother… there are no signs of burglary in that apartment, so, there are only 2 ways to get in, one with a false key, which was investigated and we did not reach conclusions that said it could have been used, so in principle it was not and the other entrance through the entrance of the sliding doors where everyone entered, alone. They led us… so, they lied, there were many lies, they led the PJ to… to waste a lot of time and to follow a path that… for example, took us to Robert Murat.

 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 01, 2020, 09:06:30 AM
What didn’t happen is that Tanner walked past a Gerry without being seen. I’ve walked up that pavement...seen who narrow it is....seen how quiet it is at that time of night...have seen sound travels. Like Wilkins I’d say it’s impossible that it happened as she said.

Think she nipped up the back passage Faith as one of her girls was unwell.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 01, 2020, 09:21:56 AM
Ok for argument sake he hasn't retracted it either - he is probably waiting for the right time.

Like when this CB nonsense is over. and it proves he is not the abductor.

Waiting for the right time?   Give over will you he's scrabbling to get them believe why he messed up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 01, 2020, 09:25:24 AM
Why did kmcc when she knew straight away that Maddie had been abducted let in 20 odd people.

That is when the crime scene was wrecked. what was the delay in calling the police? 40 mins is a long time.

They had the competence to do a timeline, yet no one had the sence it could be a crime scene.

Same as when kmcc ran out of the apartment leaving the twins ~ who could have gone when they got back.
Hmmm Hmmm



José Alberto Carvalho: Let me ask you this question Gonçalo Amaral, could Christian Brueckner be the author of… whatever happened to Madeleine McCann or not?

Gonçalo Amaral: To answer that question, it needs first to be demonstrated that there was an abduction. And what I can demonstrate is that all those people who were there lied, there was never any scheme to… monitor the children who were at home, sleeping in the apartments… they went to the apartments to use the WC, this is written in statements they made, they told the receptionist that they were going to the apartment to see their children, they didn’t say they were going to the bathroom because the bathroom by the pool didn’t have great conditions to go there, they simulated a situation of abduction with the window, with the opening of it all... saying that the window was open, it was closed, a big mess...

JAC: First it was closed, then it was open...

GA: Where, where there is only one fingerprint...

JAC: Hmmm, hmmm

GA: …that is from the child's mother… there are no signs of burglary in that apartment, so, there are only 2 ways to get in, one with a false key, which was investigated and we did not reach conclusions that said it could have been used, so in principle it was not and the other entrance through the entrance of the sliding doors where everyone entered, alone. They led us… so, they lied, there were many lies, they led the PJ to… to waste a lot of time and to follow a path that… for example, took us to Robert Murat.

 


Crime scene,  so you would jump to the conclusion it was a crime when you found your child missing?   You wouldn't search the apartment?    If anyone ruined the crime scene it was the Police,  cigarette ash everywhere, tramping through with dogs.

The journalist took him to Robert Murat not the McCann's.   He makes it up as he goes along.  Why doesn't he just admit he was wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 01, 2020, 09:29:20 AM
Gonçalo Amaral recalled that an investigation is confined to facts and, based on them, conclusions are advanced or not. According to the former PJ, in the September 2007 interim report on the case of the disappearance of the English child, the hypothesis was that a corpse was concealed. However, Gonçalo Amaral reminds that there was no accusation, in an allusion to the most recent investigations by the German and English police.

No accusation!!   He said at the end of his book that the DNA and Dog alerts proved Madeleine was dead!!   Talk about back pedalling.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 01, 2020, 09:32:18 AM
who is CC...no doubt someone portuguese.



Carlos Carmo, former coordinator of the Judiciary Police, analyses new developments in the investigation.


RP - And of the vestiges.

CC – And of the vestiges (nods agreeing). But I want to stress the following; there is at least one hypothesis of the practice of a crime, of exposure to abandonment of that child. Note that, the parents were with other friends celebrating their holidays, eating, and drinking, near-by the apartments. The children were in the apartment. We cannot forget that the child in question was four years old!

RP - And her brother and sister were even younger.

CC – Well then, someone that is enthralled about having fun and pays little to no attention to children that they have in the apartment, what might happen then? What can happen is that that person is placing at risk the very life of the child, because the child can be abandoned, without protection. The parents had the duty of care, of watching over those children. That did not happen. Even if it was considered as eventual intent [dolo eventual], not thinking that there was an intention by the parents for something to happen purposefully to the children, - that for me is out of the question - but in reality, if the parents were distracted with diversion, going out several times to check upon the children, the risk of death or of harm to the physical integrity could still occur. That hypothesis was weighed on right at the start. But the truth is, the parents weren’t constituted as arguidos [formal suspects] for this crime, and this crime, in my opinion, is applicable. In my view, the actions of the parents embody that crime, that is foreseen in the Penal Code, in the 138 article and is a serious crime! Since the descendants, my apologies the ascendants, are responsible for the creation of situation of danger, the crime is punishable from two up to five years, and if the child dies, the sentence can go from three up to ten years, it’s a serious crime!


Ah here we go,  it was the McCann's fault we messed up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 01, 2020, 09:41:52 AM

Crime scene,  so you would jump to the conclusion it was a crime when you found your child missing?   You wouldn't search the apartment?    If anyone ruined the crime scene it was the Police,  cigarette ash everywhere, tramping through with dogs.

The journalist took him to Robert Murat not the McCann's.   He makes it up as he goes along.  Why doesn't he just admit he was wrong.


Goncalo Amaral is never going to admit that.  He only went after Robert Murat because he knew that The McCanns couldn't have done it alone.

He also knew that he was going to be made Arguido in The Cipriano Affair on the very next day, although we didn't know about that for some time.

He will go on trying to prove his "Theory" until the bitter end.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 01, 2020, 10:05:38 AM

Crime scene,  so you would jump to the conclusion it was a crime when you found your child missing?   You wouldn't search the apartment?    If anyone ruined the crime scene it was the Police,  cigarette ash everywhere, tramping through with dogs.

The journalist took him to Robert Murat not the McCann's.   He makes it up as he goes along.  Why doesn't he just admit he was wrong.

Well, kmcc should have jumped to it if she knew straight away Maddie had been abducted.

What else would it have been then if not a crime scene?

why did non of these so-called intelligent people realize this?

Why do you think the timeline was more important
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 01, 2020, 10:08:35 AM
Waiting for the right time?   Give over will you he's scrabbling to get them believe why he messed up.

How do you know he did mess up.

Has the abduction ever been proved apart from the mccs say so?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 01, 2020, 10:10:39 AM

Ah here we go,  it was the McCann's fault we messed up.

I think they messed up the minute they walked out that door leaving Maddie to her fate L
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 01, 2020, 10:13:22 AM

Crime scene,  so you would jump to the conclusion it was a crime when you found your child missing?   You wouldn't search the apartment?    If anyone ruined the crime scene it was the Police,  cigarette ash everywhere, tramping through with dogs.

The journalist took him to Robert Murat not the McCann's.   He makes it up as he goes along.  Why doesn't he just admit he was wrong.

Not just LC ...JT as well. so don't you be making it up as you go along.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 01, 2020, 10:18:18 AM
Not just LC ...JT as well. so don't you be making it up as you go along.

you say you beleive the mccanns are 100% involved in Maddies disappearnce. If they were on trial and you were
 a juror....based on the evidence we have....would you find them guilty?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 01, 2020, 10:21:02 AM

Crime scene,  so you would jump to the conclusion it was a crime when you found your child missing?   You wouldn't search the apartment?    If anyone ruined the crime scene it was the Police,  cigarette ash everywhere, tramping through with dogs.

The journalist took him to Robert Murat not the McCann's.   He makes it up as he goes along.  Why doesn't he just admit he was wrong.

Cigarette ash everywhere?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 01, 2020, 10:24:56 AM
I think they messed up the minute they walked out that door leaving Maddie to her fate L
That's not 'messing up', that's called gross negligence and child cruelty when your own daughter tells you she and her sibling were upset and crying the previous night. And for 'upset and crying' read 'probably wailing desperately for their mum', because of course the parents are going to down play the episode - which they did (curly lip 'she just moved on').
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 01, 2020, 10:32:10 AM
That's not 'messing up', that's called gross negligence and child cruelty when your own daughter tells you she and her sibling were upset and crying the previous night. And for 'upset and crying' read 'probably wailing desperately for their mum', because of course the parents are going to down play the episode - which they did (curly lip 'she just moved on').

Exactly thanks for the correction.

They are the root of the cause - a simple thing they had to do was safe guide there kids.. there right as children.

Yet everyone else has to be blamed by mccs and others ...for what they did wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 01, 2020, 10:36:57 AM
Cigarette ash everywhere?
This is the common 'go to', how the PJ essentially ruined a 'crime scene'.
Well guess what, in a missing child case that apartment should have looked like the aftermath of a tornado, not the orderly scene that the PJ photographed, with just about everything in situ.
So maybe they know more than me and exercised restraint when searching, as I'd have ransacked the place immediately. And next door.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 01, 2020, 10:48:05 AM
Well, kmcc should have jumped to it if she knew straight away Maddie had been abducted.

What else would it have been then if not a crime scene?

why did non of these so-called intelligent people realize this?

Why do you think the timeline was more important


It didn't stop Kate from searching the apartment,  hoping she was wrong,  Gerry also searched the apartment.

The Police wanted the timeline.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 01, 2020, 10:51:10 AM

It didn't stop Kate from searching the apartment,  hoping she was wrong,  Gerry also searched the apartment.

The Police wanted the timeline.
There's a difference between 'wanting a timeline' and 'wanting to establish a timeline'.
A very big difference.
They certainly didn't want two.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 01, 2020, 10:52:08 AM

It didn't stop Kate from searching the apartment,  hoping she was wrong,  Gerry also searched the apartment.

The Police wanted the timeline.

So the tapas 9 obliged by creating one by consensus.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 01, 2020, 10:54:14 AM
I think they messed up the minute they walked out that door leaving Maddie to her fate L

The McCann's made a terrible decision to leave the children alone,  but that doesn't mean an abductor had the right to take their child.   Stop trying to put the blame onto the McCann's,   I don't care if there was an arrow pointing to the McCann's apartment NO ONE had the right to take their child.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 01, 2020, 10:56:43 AM
The McCann's made a terrible decision to leave the children alone,  but that doesn't mean an abductor had the right to take their child.   Stop trying to put the blame onto the McCann's,   I don't care if there was an arrow pointing to the McCann's apartment NO ONE had the right to take their child.
It's about negligence and duty of care. The end result of the negligence is the harm, irrespective of the mode.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 01, 2020, 10:58:56 AM

It didn't stop Kate from searching the apartment,  hoping she was wrong,  Gerry also searched the apartment.

The Police wanted the timeline.

Ye right ..they were staying there the other 20+ wasn,t

They are the ones that contaminated everything ruining the crime scene.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 01, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
It's about negligence and duty of care. The end result of the negligence is the harm, irrespective of the mode.

So there you are then,   the parents left the children,   Madeleine didn't deserve a proper investigation because her parents left her alone to be abducted.     Amaral keeps bringing this up,  shifting the blame.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 01, 2020, 11:02:53 AM
So there you are then,   the parents left the children,   Madeleine didn't deserve a proper investigation because her parents left her alone to be abducted.     Amaral keeps bringing this up,  shifting the blame.
No, nobody said, or indeed did that.
Consider this, who allows themselves to be paraded outside a nick to a throng (I said throng) of waiting journalists to let the chief of police rattle on about arguidos and all that?
Which self-respecting counsel permits that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 01, 2020, 11:07:59 AM
The McCann's made a terrible decision to leave the children alone,  but that doesn't mean an abductor had the right to take their child.   Stop trying to put the blame onto the McCann's,   I don't care if there was an arrow pointing to the McCann's apartment NO ONE had the right to take their child.

OFGS in a perfect world yes.

but we are not in a perfect world them as Dr should know that.

They were not even at home...  in a strange place..the buck lies with them.

They abandoned the children with no care....with no care what would happen imo accidents crying alone bla bla

They had no right to leave them in the first place.- its the mcc they relied on to keep safe.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 01, 2020, 11:11:16 AM
So there you are then,   the parents left the children,   Madeleine didn't deserve a proper investigation because her parents left her alone to be abducted.     Amaral keeps bringing this up,  shifting the blame.


So do you IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 01, 2020, 11:16:17 AM
OFGS in a perfect world yes.

but we are not in a perfect world them as Dr should know that.

They were not even at home...  in a strange place..the buck lies with them.

They abandoned the children with no care....with no care what would happen imo accidents crying alone bla bla

They had no right to leave them in the first place.- its the mcc they relied on to keep safe.


Many people leave their children alone on holiday.   Tents have no locks and people go to BBQ's leaving their young children alone in tents.   People go to sleep on beaches and leave their children playing by the sea.   People go to sleep or go to the bar on holidays and leave their children in the pool.   They don't think someone will abduct their child do they?  The McCann's made a decision along with their friends to a check on their children while they had dinner just down the road.  It was a holiday destination it was quiet it was supposed to be child friendly.   There was a monster on the prowl,  it wasn't the McCann's fault this person was out to take a child.  Stop passing the buck.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 01, 2020, 11:39:29 AM

It didn't stop Kate from searching the apartment,  hoping she was wrong,  Gerry also searched the apartment.

The Police wanted the timeline.

Who said the police wanted a timeline? Was it the person who decided to sit down and write one out on Madeleine's sticker book? What time was that and where was it done?

According to Inspector Martins he and Barreiras arrived at 00:40/00:50, and the first thing they did was clear the apartment, inviting everyone except the McCanns to leave.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR_MARTINS.htm#p15p3862

According to Russell O'Brien they didn't leave immediately, he and David Payne sat down with Gerry and produced the timeline;

Clarified who made the time line handed to Portuguese officers- I had written it- both copies, in consultation with Dave and Gerry.  It was written 02:00-03:00hours in Gerry’s room.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 01, 2020, 04:52:06 PM
Who said the police wanted a timeline? Was it the person who decided to sit down and write one out on Madeleine's sticker book? What time was that and where was it done?

According to Inspector Martins he and Barreiras arrived at 00:40/00:50, and the first thing they did was clear the apartment, inviting everyone except the McCanns to leave.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR_MARTINS.htm#p15p3862

According to Russell O'Brien they didn't leave immediately, he and David Payne sat down with Gerry and produced the timeline;

Clarified who made the time line handed to Portuguese officers- I had written it- both copies, in consultation with Dave and Gerry.  It was written 02:00-03:00hours in Gerry’s room.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

In one of their statements,  they ask the Police Officer if they should get the media involved and the Police officer looking at the timeline said 'this is what we want'.   I can't remember whose statement it was in so I will have to look through them all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 01, 2020, 05:36:31 PM
In one of their statements,  they ask the Police Officer if they should get the media involved and the Police officer looking at the timeline said 'this is what we want'.   I can't remember whose statement it was in so I will have to look through them all.

I think it was O’Brien.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 01, 2020, 06:07:44 PM
I think it was O’Brien.


Yes it was Faith I've found it -


But anyway Dave PAYNE said to, erm, there were two members of the PJ had arrived, there was a guy I remember being almost shaved bald head, quite dark complexion, and a second one who we kind of nicknamed ‘baby face’ who did our fingerprinting about a week later, erm, and those two were there and Dave was, was saying, you know, ‘Shouldn’t we’, you know, ‘Why are we sitting here, shouldn’t you be on the radio, shouldn’t there be more people here, shouldn’t there be’, you know, ‘this should be on the radio, it should be on the television’ and, erm, I recall ‘baby face’ or his colleague saying ‘No media’, and, you know, and that was full-stop and then turning round to me writing the timeline and saying ‘That’s what we want’, fair enough.  Erm, huh, and that’s really it. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 01, 2020, 06:49:09 PM
In one of their statements,  they ask the Police Officer if they should get the media involved and the Police officer looking at the timeline said 'this is what we want'.   I can't remember whose statement it was in so I will have to look through them all.

It was Russell's justification for producing the timeline, but if they were all chucked out of 5A when the PJ arrived how could they be sitting at the table writing timelines over an hour later?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 01, 2020, 08:13:12 PM
Funny how all the exact times they later produced were nowhere to be seen on those first timelines  *%87
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 01, 2020, 08:16:49 PM
Funny how all the exact times they later produced were nowhere to be seen on those first timelines  *%87
Funny that bossy, insistent Gerry didn’t insist they wrote down 10.13 as the time Kate raised the alarm isn’t it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 01, 2020, 08:27:20 PM
First timelines show that Jane saw a stranger carrying a child after Gerry had found the bedroom door had moved.

Get that evil abductor Tannerman! Oh wait it wasn't him  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 02, 2020, 02:21:34 AM
What didn’t happen is that Tanner walked past a Gerry without being seen. I’ve walked up that pavement...seen who narrow it is....seen how quiet it is at that time of night...have seen sound travels. Like Wilkins I’d say it’s impossible that it happened as she said.

I've walked that street too and seen just how wide it is at that particular spot.  I have also checked it on Google Earth and it measures 2.3 metres in that entrance to the walkway which the were standing near..  That is over 7'6" wide …. or in other terms the width is over a foot wider than the length of a modern bed.

Additionally to that, Gerry was standing with one foot on the kerb and the other foot in the road.   Jez and pushchair were entirely in the road.  As Gerrys weight would be centralized over his feet, his body would be mainly over the road.   So a good 7 feet of space behind him.


Why mislead, Faith ?   What's in it for you ?


Any one can check my measurements on Google Earth.   The map dated 3/15/2015 is very clear
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 02, 2020, 02:25:45 AM
What didn’t happen is that Tanner walked past a Gerry without being seen. I’ve walked up that pavement...seen who narrow it is....seen how quiet it is at that time of night...have seen sound travels. Like Wilkins I’d say it’s impossible that it happened as she said.

Oh and whilst we are at it, where did Jez Wilkins say that it was impossible ?   I don't remember him using those words.  Cite, if you don't mind Faith.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 02, 2020, 08:48:02 AM
What didn’t happen is that Tanner walked past a Gerry without being seen. I’ve walked up that pavement...seen who narrow it is....seen how quiet it is at that time of night...have seen sound travels. Like Wilkins I’d say it’s impossible that it happened as she said.

So you say...

I take what strangers claim from behind their computer monitors with a pinch of salt

Perhaps you could supply some photographs of when you were there? Guarantee you won’t...

And everyone takes photos on holiday or when abroad

And, actually, Gerry was chatting to tennis partner and had his back to the apartment when Jane Tanner walked past. Why should he have noticed her? And why would she have shouted out “Hello” interrupting his conversation when they were going back to the Tapas Bar minutes later?

You don’t even know what shoes she was wearing: she could have been wearing flat pumps that don’t make a sound

Jane Tanner also noticed the man carrying a child who eventually came forward, whereas Gerry and his acquaintance didn’t. I don’t know about you, but when I’m chatting to someone facing them I’m not turning my head around looking behind me...

Besides being rude, it’s abnormal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 02, 2020, 08:52:50 AM
This is the common 'go to', how the PJ essentially ruined a 'crime scene'.
Well guess what, in a missing child case that apartment should have looked like the aftermath of a tornado, not the orderly scene that the PJ photographed, with just about everything in situ.
So maybe they know more than me and exercised restraint when searching, as I'd have ransacked the place immediately. And next door.


The apartment had hardly anything in it except beds, wardrobes and a fitted kitchen.

Did you expect the police to empty all the bedside cabinet drawers and kitchen cutlery drawers?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 02, 2020, 09:14:48 AM
Cigarette ash everywhere?


It led to a crime scene contamination by up to 50 people. Cleaners washed bed sheets and ash from officers’ cigarettes was found in evidence samples. The 2005 rape inquiry was abandoned after just five months.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on July 02, 2020, 01:12:04 PM
So you say...

I take what strangers claim from behind their computer monitors with a pinch of salt

Perhaps you could supply some photographs of when you were there? Guarantee you won’t...

And everyone takes photos on holiday or when abroad

And, actually, Gerry was chatting to tennis partner and had his back to the apartment when Jane Tanner walked past. Why should he have noticed her? And why would she have shouted out “Hello” interrupting his conversation when they were going back to the Tapas Bar minutes later?

You don’t even know what shoes she was wearing: she could have been wearing flat pumps that don’t make a sound

Jane Tanner also noticed the man carrying a child who eventually came forward, whereas Gerry and his acquaintance didn’t. I don’t know about you, but when I’m chatting to someone facing them I’m not turning my head around looking behind me...

Besides being rude, it’s abnormal.

Faithlilly's photos are featured on Pamalam (GerryMcCannsBlogs) https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Faithlilly.htm

However I disagree with her claim that Jane could not have passed behind Gerry on the pavement without him noticing.
 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 02, 2020, 02:20:30 PM
So you say...

I take what strangers claim from behind their computer monitors with a pinch of salt

Perhaps you could supply some photographs of when you were there? Guarantee you won’t...

And everyone takes photos on holiday or when abroad

And, actually, Gerry was chatting to tennis partner and had his back to the apartment when Jane Tanner walked past. Why should he have noticed her? And why would she have shouted out “Hello” interrupting his conversation when they were going back to the Tapas Bar minutes later?

You don’t even know what shoes she was wearing: she could have been wearing flat pumps that don’t make a sound

Jane Tanner also noticed the man carrying a child who eventually came forward, whereas Gerry and his acquaintance didn’t. I don’t know about you, but when I’m chatting to someone facing them I’m not turning my head around looking behind me...

Besides being rude, it’s abnormal.

More speculation.

I guarantee that Faithlilly went to PdL and took photos.

I know which shoes Jane Tanner wore on the evening of 3rd May; flip flops.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 02, 2020, 02:21:58 PM

It led to a crime scene contamination by up to 50 people. Cleaners washed bed sheets and ash from officers’ cigarettes was found in evidence samples. The 2005 rape inquiry was abandoned after just five months.

Is there evidence of this cigarette ash?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 02, 2020, 05:26:01 PM
So you say...

I take what strangers claim from behind their computer monitors with a pinch of salt

Perhaps you could supply some photographs of when you were there? Guarantee you won’t...

And everyone takes photos on holiday or when abroad

And, actually, Gerry was chatting to tennis partner and had his back to the apartment when Jane Tanner walked past. Why should he have noticed her? And why would she have shouted out “Hello” interrupting his conversation when they were going back to the Tapas Bar minutes later?

You don’t even know what shoes she was wearing: she could have been wearing flat pumps that don’t make a sound

Jane Tanner also noticed the man carrying a child who eventually came forward, whereas Gerry and his acquaintance didn’t. I don’t know about you, but when I’m chatting to someone facing them I’m not turning my head around looking behind me...

Besides being rude, it’s abnormal.
You may find this hard to believe but there are some McCann sceptic obsessives who choose PdL as a holdiay destination because of Madeleine’s disappearance not in spite of it.  I know, sick isn’t it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 02, 2020, 05:29:55 PM
Not just sceptics, there's at least one supporter who makes pilgrimages there.

Personally I wouldn't touch the place for anything, but then Portugal doesn't attract me  at all
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 02, 2020, 05:32:39 PM
Not just sceptics, there's at least one supporter who makes pilgrimages there.

Personally I wouldn't touch the place for anything, but then Portugal doesn't attract me  at all
Nor me, a package holiday shit hole full of seedy criminal types and on the cheerless, cold Atlantic coast.  Yuck.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: mrswah on July 02, 2020, 05:44:38 PM
You may find this hard to believe but there are some McCann sceptic obsessives who choose PdL as a holdiay destination because of Madeleine’s disappearance not in spite of it.  I know, sick isn’t it?

I can well believe it !
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: mrswah on July 02, 2020, 05:45:24 PM
Faithlilly's photos are featured on Pamalam (GerryMcCannsBlogs) https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Faithlilly.htm

However I disagree with her claim that Jane could not have passed behind Gerry on the pavement without him noticing.

Good photos---I've just had a look.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 02, 2020, 05:54:36 PM
You may find this hard to believe but there are some McCann sceptic obsessives who choose PdL as a holdiay destination because of Madeleine’s disappearance not in spite of it.  I know, sick isn’t it?

Enough of the personal attacks already!!!

Investigative research isn’t “sick” anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 02, 2020, 06:00:35 PM
Enough of the personal attacks already!!!

Investigative research isn’t “sick” anyway.
Unless you go to PdL in a professional capacity to report on or investigate the scene of Madeleine’s disappearance I think choosing it as a holiday destination because it’s where she disappeared from is sick.  It’s grief tourism and in very poor taste.  I have a great interest in the case but I wouldn’t holiday there if it was the last place on earth.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 02, 2020, 06:14:21 PM
Unless you go to PdL in a professional capacity to report on or investigate the scene of Madeleine’s disappearance I think choosing it as a holiday destination because it’s where she disappeared from is sick.  It’s grief tourism and in very poor taste.  I have a great interest in the case but I wouldn’t holiday there if it was the last place on earth.

I can't wait to go again, roll on August.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 02, 2020, 06:40:27 PM
I can't wait to go again, roll on August.
I wasn’t aware the Convention of United Nation Trolls was being held in PdL this year - have fun!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 02, 2020, 07:05:29 PM
I wasn’t aware the Convention of United Nation Trolls was being held in PdL this year - have fun!
Where do you usually go?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 02, 2020, 07:07:19 PM
Where do you usually go?
Anywhere but there HB x. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 02, 2020, 07:09:18 PM
Anywhere but there HB x.
Maybe you've only just found out because even they didn't want you to go.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 02, 2020, 08:00:20 PM
Maybe you've only just found out because even they didn't want you to go.
That’s mean HB  x
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 03, 2020, 10:49:41 AM
Nor me, a package holiday shit hole full of seedy criminal types and on the cheerless, cold Atlantic coast.  Yuck.

Beaches full of shacks is what I remember dozens of homeless and that was Vilamoura.

Luckily we stayed in the hotel as it was Christmas/new year.

Never would I go there with children why the mccs went there in the first place makes no sense.

Definitely not a child friendly place,
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 03, 2020, 10:51:30 AM
So you say...

I take what strangers claim from behind their computer monitors with a pinch of salt

Perhaps you could supply some photographs of when you were there? Guarantee you won’t...

And everyone takes photos on holiday or when abroad

And, actually, Gerry was chatting to tennis partner and had his back to the apartment when Jane Tanner walked past. Why should he have noticed her? And why would she have shouted out “Hello” interrupting his conversation when they were going back to the Tapas Bar minutes later?

You don’t even know what shoes she was wearing: she could have been wearing flat pumps that don’t make a sound

Jane Tanner also noticed the man carrying a child who eventually came forward, whereas Gerry and his acquaintance didn’t. I don’t know about you, but when I’m chatting to someone facing them I’m not turning my head around looking behind me...

Besides being rude, it’s abnormal.


And everyone takes photos on holiday or when abroad

Exactly more so when you have children ..strange though how the mccs only took 3or 4 even though they took a camera.

Well it has been proved Faith did take photos

snip from another post
And, actually, Gerry was chatting to tennis partner and had his back to the apartment when Jane Tanner walked past. Why should he have noticed her?


Maybe he was inebriated too he liked to visit the bar in the afternoon Judging what I have seen from others when abroad. drink and kids don't mix during the day.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID_BARROSO.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 03, 2020, 11:50:25 AM

And everyone takes photos on holiday or when abroad

Exactly more so when you have children ..strange though how the mccs only took 3or 4 even though they took a camera.

Well it has been proved Faith did take photos

snip from another post
And, actually, Gerry was chatting to tennis partner and had his back to the apartment when Jane Tanner walked past. Why should he have noticed her?


Maybe he was inebriated too he liked to visit the bar in the afternoon Judging what I have seen from others when abroad. drink and kids don't mix during the day.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID_BARROSO.htm

Some think that the group's alcohol intake was limited to the drinks they had with dinner, but Jane Tanner said she would normally begin drinking alcohol earler than that;

And then we walked up to, I think it’s Café Paris, Parisio or something, it’s the café that’s on the front, and we just had, had some drinks there and gave the kids some tea, so we got them some tea, because obviously they weren’t having it in the,  the Kids, they didn’t have the provided tea that night.  Erm, I had an orange juice, I didn’t even have a beer, I remember that, because I thought ‘Oh shall I have a beer’ and I thought ‘Oh no, I’ll have an orange juice’.  I don’t know why I remember that either but”.

4078    “Obviously a conscious decision”.
 Reply    “It was a conscious, yeah.  I think normally I probably would have at that time of day thought ‘It’s time for a beer’.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Russell mentions extra drinks in addition to the free wine;

All the meals were included in the booking as was a limited choice in drinks, if anything else was ordered there may have been a need to have made an additional payment.  I recall that orders may have been put onto a bar bill and paid at the end of the week.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

There were amounts owing, were these bar bills?

McCann £ 242.00
O'Brien  £ 105.00
Oldfield £ 26.00
Payne   £ 162.00

(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/T/03_VOLUME%20_IIa_Page_621.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 03, 2020, 11:59:16 AM
Some think that the group's alcohol intake was limited to the drinks they had with dinner, but Jane Tanner said she would normally begin drinking alcohol earler than that;

And then we walked up to, I think it’s Café Paris, Parisio or something, it’s the café that’s on the front, and we just had, had some drinks there and gave the kids some tea, so we got them some tea, because obviously they weren’t having it in the,  the Kids, they didn’t have the provided tea that night.  Erm, I had an orange juice, I didn’t even have a beer, I remember that, because I thought ‘Oh shall I have a beer’ and I thought ‘Oh no, I’ll have an orange juice’.  I don’t know why I remember that either but”.

4078    “Obviously a conscious decision”.
 Reply    “It was a conscious, yeah.  I think normally I probably would have at that time of day thought ‘It’s time for a beer’.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Russell mentions extra drinks in addition to the free wine;

All the meals were included in the booking as was a limited choice in drinks, if anything else was ordered there may have been a need to have made an additional payment.  I recall that orders may have been put onto a bar bill and paid at the end of the week.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

There were amounts owing, were these bar bills?

McCann £ 242.00
O'Brien  £ 105.00
Oldfield £ 26.00
Payne   £ 162.00

(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/T/03_VOLUME%20_IIa_Page_621.jpg)
Good to see the Brits top of the list for getting on the lash......go 'ed Gerry, lad!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 03, 2020, 12:10:48 PM

And everyone takes photos on holiday or when abroad

Exactly more so when you have children ..strange though how the mccs only took 3or 4 even though they took a camera.

Well it has been proved Faith did take photos

snip from another post
And, actually, Gerry was chatting to tennis partner and had his back to the apartment when Jane Tanner walked past. Why should he have noticed her?


Maybe he was inebriated too he liked to visit the bar in the afternoon Judging what I have seen from others when abroad. drink and kids don't mix during the day.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID_BARROSO.htm

How do you know the McCann's didn't take more photo's?   The ones we see are just their children,  it could be they took more but have other children in them or adults?   You don't know.

Oh so you judge Gerry by what you have seen others do.   Jez said he sounded normal,  he would have said if he had sounded drunk.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 03, 2020, 12:22:40 PM
How do you know the McCann's didn't take more photo's?   The ones we see are just their children,  it could be they took more but have other children in them or adults?   You don't know.

Oh so you judge Gerry by what you have seen others do.   Jez said he sounded normal,  he would have said if he had sounded drunk.

Asked, he clarifies that, with regard to the personal photos already delivered by him to the authorities after the disappearance of his daughter MADELEINE, he has no others in his power [possession].
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 03, 2020, 12:32:11 PM
How do you know the McCann's didn't take more photo's?   The ones we see are just their children,  it could be they took more but have other children in them or adults?   You don't know.

Oh so you judge Gerry by what you have seen others do.   Jez said he sounded normal,  he would have said if he had sounded drunk.


How do you sound drunk ...even alcoholics can sound sober

They didn't take any more photos or can you prove otherwise.

How am I judging what others do..gmc was in the bar in the afternoon. fact

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 03, 2020, 12:34:17 PM
Some think that the group's alcohol intake was limited to the drinks they had with dinner, but Jane Tanner said she would normally begin drinking alcohol earler than that;

And then we walked up to, I think it’s Café Paris, Parisio or something, it’s the café that’s on the front, and we just had, had some drinks there and gave the kids some tea, so we got them some tea, because obviously they weren’t having it in the,  the Kids, they didn’t have the provided tea that night.  Erm, I had an orange juice, I didn’t even have a beer, I remember that, because I thought ‘Oh shall I have a beer’ and I thought ‘Oh no, I’ll have an orange juice’.  I don’t know why I remember that either but”.

4078    “Obviously a conscious decision”.
 Reply    “It was a conscious, yeah.  I think normally I probably would have at that time of day thought ‘It’s time for a beer’.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Russell mentions extra drinks in addition to the free wine;

All the meals were included in the booking as was a limited choice in drinks, if anything else was ordered there may have been a need to have made an additional payment.  I recall that orders may have been put onto a bar bill and paid at the end of the week.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

There were amounts owing, were these bar bills?

McCann £ 242.00
O'Brien  £ 105.00
Oldfield £ 26.00
Payne   £ 162.00

(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/T/03_VOLUME%20_IIa_Page_621.jpg)

And the rest ...you usually get a free bottle of wine with your meal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 03, 2020, 12:37:21 PM

How do you sound drunk ...even alcoholics can sound sober

They didn't take any more photos or can you prove otherwise.

How am I judging what others do..gmc was in the bar in the afternoon. fact

It could be the friends took photo's of the McCann's family for them all to be in the photo's,  you don't know.
Gerry was playing tennis,  so he was able to function normally.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 03, 2020, 12:55:54 PM
It could be the friends took photo's of the McCann's family for them all to be in the photo's,  you don't know.
Gerry was playing tennis,  so he was able to function normally.

Yes and it could be they didn't. just sounds like excuses to me L
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 03, 2020, 01:12:21 PM
Yes and it could be they didn't. just sounds like excuses to me L

What's your point anyway?   The McCann's didn't  take as many photo's that you would have.   That Gerry may have had a drink in the afternoon.   If the bar was open then he wouldn't have been the only one if he did that is.   I have been out many times during the day for a meal.  I see many families have a meal and a drink.   All who met Gerry said he was a friendly person,  he took his children to the creche he played with them,  it doesn't look to me as if he was anything other than a normal doting father.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 03, 2020, 01:14:28 PM
What's your point anyway?   The McCann's didn't  take as many photo's that you would have.   That Gerry may have had a drink in the afternoon.   If the bar was open then he wouldn't have been the only one if he did that is.   I have been out many times during the day for a meal.  I see many families have a meal and a drink.   All who met Gerry said he was a friendly person,  he took his children to the creche he played with them,  it doesn't look to me as if he was anything other than a normal doting father.
Doting enough to leave them alone in the.......meh, you get the jist of the mist.......bbbllLLUUrrggGGgghhhhhhhHh
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 03, 2020, 01:15:28 PM
Doting enough to leave them alone in the.......meh, you get the jist of the mist.......bbbllLLUUrrggGGgghhhhhhhHh

As I said before they were sleeping should have been safe the friends did it too.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 03, 2020, 01:16:41 PM
As I said before they were sleeping should have been safe the friends did it too.
Can't be arsed arguing it.......suffice to say........nah.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 03, 2020, 01:17:05 PM
How do you know the McCann's didn't take more photo's?   The ones we see are just their children,  it could be they took more but have other children in them or adults?   You don't know.

Oh so you judge Gerry by what you have seen others do.   Jez said he sounded normal,  he would have said if he had sounded drunk.


Oh so you judge Gerry by what you have seen others do.




NO its what Iv seen him do... although I have seen it happen irate fathers in drink


Do you remember the video on the bus how bad-tempered it seemed gmcc was not here to f*** enjoy himself


The group appeared boisterous but good natured with Gerry being the central figure. His gregarious character making him appear to be the central figure in the group and almost holding court. However they did notice that David Payne was equally gregarious and almost playing along with, if not up to, Gerry.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm

It was mentioned in GA book
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 03, 2020, 01:32:16 PM

Oh so you judge Gerry by what you have seen others do.




NO its what Iv seen him do... although I have seen it happen irate fathers in drink


Do you remember the video on the bus how bad-tempered it seemed gmcc was not here to f*** enjoy himself


The group appeared boisterous but good natured with Gerry being the central figure. His gregarious character making him appear to be the central figure in the group and almost holding court. However they did notice that David Payne was equally gregarious and almost playing along with, if not up to, Gerry.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm

It was mentioned in GA book

He was joking.

Everyone who met him said he was friendly I didn't read that anyone said he was angry.

At least he was on holiday when he had a drink,  unlike Amaral and his drinking at lunch then going back to work.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 03, 2020, 02:19:07 PM

Oh so you judge Gerry by what you have seen others do.




NO its what Iv seen him do... although I have seen it happen irate fathers in drink


Do you remember the video on the bus how bad-tempered it seemed gmcc was not here to f*** enjoy himself


The group appeared boisterous but good natured with Gerry being the central figure. His gregarious character making him appear to be the central figure in the group and almost holding court. However they did notice that David Payne was equally gregarious and almost playing along with, if not up to, Gerry.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm

It was mentioned in GA book

Goncalo Amaral told a lot of lies in his book ... it doesn't mean we should repeat them all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 03, 2020, 02:59:34 PM
Goncalo Amaral told a lot of lies in his book ... it doesn't mean we should repeat them all.


No, we saw the video ourselves....and others I believe of him being very irate.

I mentioned GA to keep on topic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 03, 2020, 03:25:32 PM

No, we saw the video ourselves....and others I believe of him being very irate.

I mentioned GA to keep on topic.

Really?  based on what ... first hand experience of drunken fathers?  I obviously didn't view the same video you did because I did not see anyone being irate nor did I hear anyone swearing in front of the children and a bus full of adult passengers with their children.  Neither do I recall Jes Wilkins or his wife being on the bus either.

What was the context of all that ?  I don't really think it is on topic.  However if Amaral wrote it in his book must be OK then unless you overdo your innuendo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 03, 2020, 03:29:44 PM
What's your point anyway?   The McCann's didn't  take as many photo's that you would have.   That Gerry may have had a drink in the afternoon.   If the bar was open then he wouldn't have been the only one if he did that is.   I have been out many times during the day for a meal.  I see many families have a meal and a drink.   All who met Gerry said he was a friendly person,  he took his children to the creche he played with them,  it doesn't look to me as if he was anything other than a normal doting father.


Ye families altogether no on your own ...it seems to me kmc was with the kids more than gmc.

Didn't payne go check on her and ott said how peaceful they all were.

anyway I didn't bring up about taking loads of photos when on holiday if you look back.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 03, 2020, 03:31:42 PM
He was joking.

Everyone who met him said he was friendly I didn't read that anyone said he was angry.

At least he was on holiday when he had a drink,  unlike Amaral and his drinking at lunch then going back to work.

How do you ....know he was joking ...was u on that bus
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 03, 2020, 04:21:29 PM
How do you ....know he was joking ...was u on that bus

It's Scottish dry humour.

No I wasn't on the bus and neither were you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 03, 2020, 04:59:08 PM
It's Scottish dry humour.

No I wasn't on the bus and neither were you.


I saw the video an I don't think he made many people laugh maybe because they weren't Scottish then. LOL
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 03, 2020, 06:01:57 PM

I saw the video an I don't think he made many people laugh maybe because they weren't Scottish then. LOL

my son was a mediacl student at leicester in 2007....Gerry was very well liked and had everyones sympathy
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 03, 2020, 06:21:40 PM
Sigh.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 03, 2020, 06:22:56 PM
my son was a mediacl student at leicester in 2007....Gerry was very well liked and had everyones sympathy
What a wonderful, touching story. Thank you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 03, 2020, 06:25:11 PM
What a wonderful, touching story. Thank you.
I agree.  It was.  Thank YOU HB x
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 03, 2020, 06:28:52 PM
I agree.  It was.  Thank YOU HB x
It wasn't my story, but thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 03, 2020, 06:31:53 PM
It wasn't my story, but thanks.
I know it wasn’t, I was thanking you for pointing out what a lovely story it was HB x
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 03, 2020, 07:18:28 PM
What a wonderful, touching story. Thank you.

Thanks...he also said anyone who thinks the McCanns are involved must be stupid....I though that was a lovely thing to say too
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on July 03, 2020, 08:03:05 PM
Thanks...he also said anyone who thinks the McCanns are involved must be stupid....I though that was a lovely thing to say too
I just want to share. From my context, those who believe Madeleine’s parents were involved at whatever level, seem to know almost nothing/limited knowledge, about her disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 03, 2020, 08:49:52 PM
Thanks...he also said anyone who thinks the McCanns are involved must be stupid....I though that was a lovely thing to say too
You thought wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 03, 2020, 09:19:38 PM
I just want to share. From my context, those who believe Madeleine’s parents were involved at whatever level, seem to know almost nothing/limited knowledge, about her disappearance.

Madeleine was too tired to go out to play and watch daddy play tennis. Every night she had been out to play EXCEPT for 3 May 2007 - the day she disappeared! FACT! Whatever Kate says is the truth. If she was involved no supporter would ever know because they believe every single word like true believers @)(++(*

Investigators have to remain open minded and if they are following the evidence it leads to one place!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 03, 2020, 09:22:53 PM
So you say...

I take what strangers claim from behind their computer monitors with a pinch of salt

Perhaps you could supply some photographs of when you were there? Guarantee you won’t...

And everyone takes photos on holiday or when abroad

And, actually, Gerry was chatting to tennis partner and had his back to the apartment when Jane Tanner walked past. Why should he have noticed her? And why would she have shouted out “Hello” interrupting his conversation when they were going back to the Tapas Bar minutes later?

You don’t even know what shoes she was wearing: she could have been wearing flat pumps that don’t make a sound

Jane Tanner also noticed the man carrying a child who eventually came forward, whereas Gerry and his acquaintance didn’t. I don’t know about you, but when I’m chatting to someone facing them I’m not turning my head around looking behind me...

Besides being rude, it’s abnormal.

I have to agree with Faith on this one. Tanner couldn't have slipped by both Gerry McCann and Jez without being seen, it's simply impossible. Amaral said she never passed the men but turned left along the little path that runs along the back of block 5. If that is true she never saw a man carrying a toddler then either but might have seen innocentman later from an upstairs vantage point.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on July 03, 2020, 09:28:55 PM
Madeleine was too tired to go out to play and watch daddy play tennis. Every night she had been out to play EXCEPT for 3 May 2007 - the day she disappeared! FACT! Whatever Kate says is the truth. If she was involved no supporter would ever know because they believe every single word like true believers @)(++(*

Investigators have to remain open minded and if they are following the evidence it leads to one place!
Have you not questioned why Madeleine was extremely tired on that particular day?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 03, 2020, 09:32:51 PM
I have to agree with Faith on this one. Tanner couldn't have slipped by both Gerry McCann and Jez without being seen, it's simply impossible. Amaral said she never passed the men but turned left along the little path that runs along the back of block 5. If that is true she never saw a man carrying a toddler then either but might have seen innocentman later from an upstairs vantage point.

Yes I agree that happened if Jane saw Gerry and Jez talking. She had to turn left on to the pathway in front of the apartments and that's why they didn't notice her! There's no other credible explanation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 03, 2020, 09:35:10 PM
Have you not questioned why Madeleine was extremely tired on that particular day?

Investigators look for any changes in their normal routine.

There are a couple of changes at that time

1. children not going out to play as usual

2. normal kids bath time was at 6:30pm and that changed on 3 May 2007 according to the McCanns - before 6pm.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 03, 2020, 09:35:21 PM
Have you not questioned why Madeleine was extremely tired on that particular day?
Because she was up all night the previous night, greetin for her mam.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 03, 2020, 09:40:29 PM
Kate said she slept in the same room that night (Wed) and said they didn't wake up! Also Rachael stayed in and heard no crying next door! So when did crying happen on Wednesday?

But Tuesday is another matter from the witness who lived above.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 03, 2020, 09:43:28 PM
my son was a mediacl student at leicester in 2007....Gerry was very well liked and had everyones sympathy

I've no doubt some people thought Harold Shipman was a nice man & a good doctor.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 03, 2020, 09:45:36 PM
Because she was up all night the previous night, greetin for her mam.

And very possibly every other night too imo.  The child was mortified at being left alone in a strange property with strange sounds all around. What the hell did the McCanns think they were doing?

IMO it follows that the child attempted to go out hearing her father chatting outside but got into difficulties
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 03, 2020, 09:53:31 PM
And very possibly every other night too imo.  The child was mortified at being left alone in a strange property with strange sounds all around. What the hell did the McCanns think they were doing?

IMO it follows that the child attempted to go out hearing her father chatting outside but got into difficulties

This statement from Stephen Carpenter has always interested me for a follow up.

leaving the restaurant, the way back to the apartment, looking to my left to check that the way was clear and I didn't see anything....My wife vaguely remembers hearing "Madeleine, Madeleine"

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 03, 2020, 09:55:18 PM
And very possibly every other night too imo.  The child was mortified at being left alone in a strange property with strange sounds all around. What the hell did the McCanns think they were doing?

IMO it follows that the child attempted to get out but got into difficulties

Yes, the child wasn't a parcel, she was a thinking, feeling little girl. If what we're told is all true, she wasn't having a great time. Her sleep was disturbed on Tuesday night because her sister cried. According to her parents there was crying on Wednesday night too. On Thursday night she was deprived of her after tea playtime, being taken straight home at 5:30 and immediately bathed and got ready for bed. It could have felt like a punishment, couldn't it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 03, 2020, 09:56:59 PM
This statement from Stephen Carpenter has always interested me for a follow up.

leaving the restaurant, the way back to the apartment, looking to my left to check that the way was clear and I didn't see anything....My wife vaguely remembers hearing "Madeleine, Madeleine"

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

Another bit of evidence pointing to an earlier time than 10pm.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 03, 2020, 10:02:54 PM
Another bit of evidence pointing to an earlier time than 10pm.

Yes definitely before 10.  I haven't got an exact time on when they left the restaurant.

The Carpenters were booked at 7pm to eat. When the McCanns arrived at 8:35 they started talking to them. I think they would have left from 9.00 to 9:30.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 03, 2020, 10:04:05 PM
Another bit of evidence pointing to an earlier time than 10pm.
Who would have been calling Madeleine Madeleine before 10pm?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 03, 2020, 10:10:13 PM
Who would have been calling Madeleine Madeleine before 10pm?

If that happened somebody that knew her NOT a stranger!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 03, 2020, 10:11:01 PM
If that happened somebody that knew her NOT a stranger!
Who and why? Wasn’t she supposed to be dead by then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 03, 2020, 10:22:02 PM
You should follow up regardless if the victim's name was heard. Cover every angle!

My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine's disappearance"

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 03, 2020, 10:24:53 PM
You should follow up regardless if the victim's name was heard. Cover every angle!
You didn’t answer the question.  Madeleine died earlier in the evening but you think someone known to her was calling out her name just before 10pm.  Who and why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 03, 2020, 10:31:58 PM
Mrs Carpenter was the witness and her husband didn't hear it and he was with her! I would need to further question the witness. It hasn't changed my theory but it would be foolish not to follow it up!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 03, 2020, 10:46:33 PM
Got a time when they left

"Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area."

"My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine's disappearance."

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

(https://2img.net/h/www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/timeline040507.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 03, 2020, 11:02:30 PM
Mrs Carpenter was the witness and her husband didn't hear it and he was with her! I would need to further question the witness. It hasn't changed my theory but it would be foolish not to follow it up!
You’d best get on it then Inspector P, no time to waste, these McCanns won’t arrest themselves you know!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 03, 2020, 11:07:44 PM
You’d best get on it then Inspector P, no time to waste, these McCanns won’t arrest themselves you know!
The sarcasm is strong in this one today.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 03, 2020, 11:33:52 PM
You didn’t answer the question.  Madeleine died earlier in the evening but you think someone known to her was calling out her name just before 10pm.  Who and why?

Perhaps people had started looking for the missing child BEFORE 10pm..... and naturally some who knew her would call her name.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 03, 2020, 11:38:18 PM
Perhaps people had started looking for the missing child BEFORE 10pm..... and naturally some who knew her would call her name.
Right.  So the alarm must have actually been raised before 9.30pm then.  Well that throws a spanner in the works! 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 04, 2020, 12:29:34 AM
Right.  So the alarm must have actually been raised before 9.30pm then.  Well that throws a spanner in the works!

No he says he left the Tapas around 9:15 - 9:30 and his wife heard the girls name on the way back to their apartment. Pure speculation but the voice she heard may have been coming from 5a. It could have been someone carrying out the very first action following a "safe approach" in the CPR algorithm: "The majority of paediatric cardiorespiratory arrests are not caused by primary cardiac problems but are secondary to other causes, mostly respiratory insufficiency; hence the order of delivering the resuscitation sequence: airway (A),breathing (B), and circulation (C).Rescuers should assess the responsiveness of a child"
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 04, 2020, 12:43:56 PM
Author
Sexta às 9 - RTP

My dear, investigating the truth implies humility. Opening of spirit. Failure recognition.
Gonçalo Amaral's thesis had irreparable flaws, and therefore, just for that reason, it wasn't even turned into public accusation. But then came public pressure. The books. The theses. Sell the story. And the urge to crucify the parents prompted a lot of people to want to believe in a thesis even when the inconsistencies were too much.
I've been investigating this case for 13 years.
No prejudice. Don't even sweat it.
Interviewed the McCanns several times. How it's public. I read all the files. All the reports. And all these years I've heard the biggest nonsense about what I've read and seen happening unbelieving with so much lie just in order to justify the the thesis of a remote inspector for saying in public what he could never prove in justice.
But in public, we can only speak what we can prove. And this is valid for everyone. Forget the bench trainers. The bitaites of those who know nothing. Read it! Look at this! But open minded.
I've never seen a suspect like Bruckner: with so many signs that put him in place of the real criminal.
Not the perfect suspect.
He's a pedophile and walked 22 years between us.
Not a pedophile because there are complaints. He's a pedophile convicted and extradited to serve time.
To all those who prefer to believe in what they always believed without knowing why, or simply because they didn't like Mccan and blame them for leaving their children alone, I ask: leave prejudice aside. It's not just about Madeleine anymore. It's about our children's safety. And we know who's in the middle of us!
Sandra Felgueira




Sandra now realise the truth about amaral and how she was lied to
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 04, 2020, 12:49:43 PM
Author
Sexta às 9 - RTP

My dear, investigating the truth implies humility. Opening of spirit. Failure recognition.
Gonçalo Amaral's thesis had irreparable flaws, and therefore, just for that reason, it wasn't even turned into public accusation. But then came public pressure. The books. The theses. Sell the story. And the urge to crucify the parents prompted a lot of people to want to believe in a thesis even when the inconsistencies were too much.
I've been investigating this case for 13 years.
No prejudice. Don't even sweat it.
Interviewed the McCanns several times. How it's public. I read all the files. All the reports. And all these years I've heard the biggest nonsense about what I've read and seen happening unbelieving with so much lie just in order to justify the the thesis of a remote inspector for saying in public what he could never prove in justice.
But in public, we can only speak what we can prove. And this is valid for everyone. Forget the bench trainers. The bitaites of those who know nothing. Read it! Look at this! But open minded.
I've never seen a suspect like Bruckner: with so many signs that put him in place of the real criminal.
Not the perfect suspect.
He's a pedophile and walked 22 years between us.
Not a pedophile because there are complaints. He's a pedophile convicted and extradited to serve time.
To all those who prefer to believe in what they always believed without knowing why, or simply because they didn't like Mccan and blame them for leaving their children alone, I ask: leave prejudice aside. It's not just about Madeleine anymore. It's about our children's safety. And we know who's in the middle of us!
Sandra Felgueira


Sandra now realise the truth about amaral and how she was lied to
Just another marionette scratching a living on the carousel, who's career zenith was to have Gerry on the run briefly. She should have stopped there and went back to reporting on jumble sales.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 04, 2020, 03:34:11 PM
Perhaps people had started looking for the missing child BEFORE 10pm..... and naturally some who knew her would call her name.

This statement also backs up searches happened before 10pm.

That on 3rd May at about 22.05 she was working at the Mini Club, at the "dinner time period" together with colleagues Charlotte and Amy, when a female individual arrived, whose name she does not know, just that she was the mother of a child there (belonging to Toddlers 2), being a guest who was staying at the resort and who left at the end of the week, who told her that a girl called "Maddie" has disappeared, and that the girl's parents needed help in looking for her.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JACQUELINE_WILLIAMS.htm

It takes 5 minutes to get to the Mini Club from the tapas area. So that witness was told by 10pm they need help looking for Maddie. Another piece of evidence putting the alarm being raised before 10pm.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 04, 2020, 05:43:02 PM
Just another marionette scratching a living on the carousel, who's career zenith was to have Gerry on the run briefly. She should have stopped there and went back to reporting on jumble sales.
And yet if she was singing Amaral’s praises still, she’d be your pin-up girl, HB and don’t even try to deny it x
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 04, 2020, 06:04:47 PM
This statement from Stephen Carpenter has always interested me for a follow up.

leaving the restaurant, the way back to the apartment, looking to my left to check that the way was clear and I didn't see anything....My wife vaguely remembers hearing "Madeleine, Madeleine"

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

Perhaps it was the abductor calling her.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 04, 2020, 06:07:09 PM
Yes, the child wasn't a parcel, she was a thinking, feeling little girl. If what we're told is all true, she wasn't having a great time. Her sleep was disturbed on Tuesday night because her sister cried. According to her parents there was crying on Wednesday night too. On Thursday night she was deprived of her after tea playtime, being taken straight home at 5:30 and immediately bathed and got ready for bed. It could have felt like a punishment, couldn't it?

No.  Madeleine was worn out she'd had an hectic day,  she had her stories before bed and could hardly join in with the singing bit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 04, 2020, 06:08:25 PM
Just another marionette scratching a living on the carousel, who's career zenith was to have Gerry on the run briefly. She should have stopped there and went back to reporting on jumble sales.

I'm glad she didn't stop..she says Amaral lied to her...now she has Amaral on the run
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on July 04, 2020, 06:09:52 PM
And yet if she was singing Amaral’s praises still, she’d be your pin-up girl, HB and don’t even try to deny it x

She has definitely lost her place  in the hall of fame in a certain forum. Lol.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 04, 2020, 06:10:19 PM
And very possibly every other night too imo.  The child was mortified at being left alone in a strange property with strange sounds all around. What the hell did the McCanns think they were doing?

IMO it follows that the child attempted to go out hearing her father chatting outside but got into difficulties
 
I don't know about you but I've taken my children away to stay and they have always been excited not mortified.  Children adapt very well to different places.   Her routine was kept the same as at home, which would have comforted her.  The only time she was put out by the look of it was Tuesday night when the twins woke her up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 04, 2020, 06:11:36 PM
I'm glad she didn't stop..she says Amaral lied to her...now she has Amaral on the run
Her opinion is worth 100 times that of any of the most well researched sceptic on this forum and thats a fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 04, 2020, 06:15:01 PM
No.  Madeleine was worn out she'd had an hectic day,  she had her stories before bed and could hardly join in with the singing bit.

Who said that? Oh yes, the person who was explaining why they took her back to the apartment an hour before the normal time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 04, 2020, 06:16:23 PM
Who said that? Oh yes, the person who was explaining why they took her back to the apartment an hour before the normal time.
Why do you think she was being punished then, by her cruel abusive parents?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 04, 2020, 06:19:26 PM
I've no doubt some people thought Harold Shipman was a nice man & a good doctor.

I really find it very childish when people compare the McCann's with an evil serial killer,  I've seen a picture of Rose West and the McCann's and a comment underneath.  What is wrong with you.  Do you think it makes you clever or does it boost your ego?    The shock response,   it doesn't work you know,  it makes you look like an empty brained troll.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 04, 2020, 06:24:32 PM
I really find it very childish when people compare the McCann's with an evil serial killer,  I've seen a picture of Rose West and the McCann's and a comment underneath.  What is wrong with you.  Do you think it makes you clever or does it boost your ego?    The shock response,   it doesn't work you know,  it makes you look like an empty brained troll.
The thing is, how do we know Harold Shipman was an evil serial killer?  Have you seen the court documents?  I haven’t, therefore I don’t beleive a word of it.  Ditto Rose West, I only know about her crimes from reading about them in the papers therefore they must all be made up and untrue.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 04, 2020, 06:32:24 PM
Why do you think she was being punished then, by her cruel abusive parents?

I didn't say she was being punished, I said it could have felt like she was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 04, 2020, 06:37:52 PM
I didn't say she was being punished, I said it could have felt like she was.
You have no trouble with my description of her parents then!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 04, 2020, 07:58:55 PM
I've walked that street too and seen just how wide it is at that particular spot.  I have also checked it on Google Earth and it measures 2.3 metres in that entrance to the walkway which the were standing near..  That is over 7'6" wide …. or in other terms the width is over a foot wider than the length of a modern bed.

Additionally to that, Gerry was standing with one foot on the kerb and the other foot in the road.   Jez and pushchair were entirely in the road.  As Gerrys weight would be centralized over his feet, his body would be mainly over the road.   So a good 7 feet of space behind him.


Why mislead, Faith ?   What's in it for you ?


Any one can check my measurements on Google Earth.   The map dated 3/15/2015 is very clear

I’m afraid it’s you who is misleading Sadie.

None of the participants involved say the were standing in the alleyway behind the parent’s apartment.
Google Earth cannot give you a real sense of how narrow the street is. Anyone can look at a photograph of two people walking side by side down the street to see how close everyone would have to have been.

From Jeremy Wilkin’s statements :

“ From what I remember, the conversation happened right there on the pathway”

“ I met him near the stairs of a ground floor. There was a gate leading up to some stairs.”

I really don’t know where you got the information above, wishful thinking perhaps, but there is nothing in either Gerry’s or Wilkin’s statements that supports your claims.

BTW Gerry specifically says that the conversation did not take place on the tapas side of the road. Your thoughts ?


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 05, 2020, 08:23:10 AM
Why do you think she was being punished then, by her cruel abusive parents?


Well, that is a possibility why did DP go into so much detail when a simple they were all fine and normal would have sufficed.....why did gmcc ask him in the first place to go check everything was ok.


So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry's apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we've looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we've got that I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he'd, he'd played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the tennis coach from Mark Warner.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 05, 2020, 08:31:25 AM

Well, that is a possibility why did DP go into so much detail when a simple they were all fine and normal would have sufficed.....why did gmcc ask him in the first place to go check everything was ok.


So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry's apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we've looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we've got that I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he'd, he'd played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the tennis coach from Mark Warner.

If he and other witnesses hadn't gone into as much detail as they possibly could in an effort to assist the police to find Madeleine ... Amaral wouldn't have had any material for his 'book of lies' and you would have had to find someone else to vilify over the last thirteen years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 05, 2020, 08:41:12 AM
If he and other witnesses hadn't gone into as much detail as they possibly could in an effort to assist the police to find Madeleine ... Amaral wouldn't have had any material for his 'book of lies' and you would have had to find someone else to vilify over the last thirteen years.

That's just IYO.

I haven't been vilifying anyone just my opinion....we don't know what happened to maddie do we... fact.

What's your excuse for being on here for as long as you have
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 05, 2020, 08:44:45 AM
That's just IYO.

I haven't been vilifying anyone just my opinion....we don't know what happened to maddie do we... fact.

What's your excuse for being on here for as long as you have

It seems the german police do...and its also clear the parents have been ruled out and are not being investigated
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 05, 2020, 08:49:33 AM
That's just IYO.

I haven't been vilifying anyone just my opinion....we don't know what happened to maddie do we... fact.

What's your excuse for being on here for as long as you have

I think my opinion is borne out by the facts.  Without his abuse of Madeleine's memory Amaral is nothing but a disgraced cop; without those who believe him implicitly there would have been much less if any abuse of Madeleine's parents and it all might have been a much pleasanter world both for the abused and their abusers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 05, 2020, 08:55:26 AM

Well, that is a possibility why did DP go into so much detail when a simple they were all fine and normal would have sufficed.....why did gmcc ask him in the first place to go check everything was ok.


So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry's apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we've looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we've got that I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he'd, he'd played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the tennis coach from Mark Warner.
You’re really good at answering questions that weren’t asked.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 05, 2020, 09:03:18 AM
You’re really good at answering questions that weren’t asked.

 &%%6 didn't know it was by invitation only VS
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 05, 2020, 09:34:59 AM

Well, that is a possibility why did DP go into so much detail when a simple they were all fine and normal would have sufficed.....why did gmcc ask him in the first place to go check everything was ok.


So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry's apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we've looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we've got that I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he'd, he'd played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the tennis coach from Mark Warner.

Why did David Payne go into such detail?   Because of the ridiculous theory of Amaral saying she had an accident in the apartment.   No doubt the interviewer asked how were the children looking,  did they look alright etc.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 05, 2020, 09:39:22 AM
Why did David Payne go into such detail?   Because of the ridiculous theory of Amaral saying she had an accident in the apartment.   No doubt the interviewer asked how were the children looking,  did they look alright etc.

Does anyone else remember that Rebelo left England before David Payne gave his Rogatory Interview?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 05, 2020, 09:53:05 AM
&%%6 didn't know it was by invitation only VS
It’s not but you gave an answer to a question that wasn’t in my post to which you replied.  Nice “wow” emoji there btw, it lends real credibility to your post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 05, 2020, 10:03:31 AM
Why did David Payne go into such detail?   Because of the ridiculous theory of Amaral saying she had an accident in the apartment.   No doubt the interviewer asked how were the children looking,  did they look alright etc.

A simple yes they were fine could have sufficed ...he won't have asked did they look like angels/immaculate/well looked after ect ect

Not sure what you're saying ...how would that have meant no accident happened later.DP going OTT on how they seemed.

IMO it was more to see the mood of the family or kmcc to report back to gmcc especially if Maddie had been in trouble

Why would he ask him to go check that particular night? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 05, 2020, 11:09:26 AM
I think my opinion is borne out by the facts.  Without his abuse of Madeleine's memory Amaral is nothing but a disgraced cop; without those who believe him implicitly there would have been much less if any abuse of Madeleine's parents and it all might have been a much pleasanter world both for the abused and their abusers.


IMO it's the so-called parents who are a disgrace.

As posted earlier kmc was supposed to be concerned before they left for holiday ...yet didnt even take a baby monitor. or arrange a childminder.

They had been crying the night before ...but totally ignored that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 05, 2020, 11:14:19 AM

Well, that is a possibility why did DP go into so much detail when a simple they were all fine and normal would have sufficed.....why did gmcc ask him in the first place to go check everything was ok.


So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry's apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we've looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we've got that I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he'd, he'd played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the tennis coach from Mark Warner.

The interesting bit imo is "I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed." It was indeed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 05, 2020, 11:16:33 AM
Why did David Payne go into such detail?   Because of the ridiculous theory of Amaral saying she had an accident in the apartment.   No doubt the interviewer asked how were the children looking,  did they look alright etc.

The problem is everything he said was contradicted by the other witness. She said he did not enter the apartment and was gone within 30 seconds. She said she wore a towel which the other witness couldn't remember!! One witness said he entered the apartment but the other said he never entered!

Which witness should you believe about a visit that took place only hours before Madeleine's disappearance?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on July 05, 2020, 01:25:44 PM
There have been a lot of complaints recently about moderation. Some members feel that they have been unfairly moderated while some moderators are feeling exasperated. I try not to intervene in disputes but sometimes it is simply necessary.

I intend to introduce new moderation rules and enhanced penalties for any member who continues to breach our rules. In the meantime I will be monitoring posts and will be applying severe sanctions should this poor behaviour continue.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 06, 2020, 12:14:47 AM
Not just sceptics, there's at least one supporter who makes pilgrimages there.

Personally I wouldn't touch the place for anything, but then Portugal doesn't attract me  at all

I think that's me, but I dont make pilgramages there, I just go and investigate and have passed on to OG a load of info that no other person has noticed.

Seems they are working along my lines atm, but little doubt they will have delved deeper.  There is lots more to come IMO if they can get the necessary proof to charge some mighty important people and quite a few others too.


Portugal is very nice, but from what I have seen not Jazzy, Jassi.  So perhaps you wouldn't like it.

Praia de Luz, apart from all the paedos and theives we are hearing about is, a perfect holiday destination for young families imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 06, 2020, 01:41:25 AM
I have to agree with Faith on this one. Tanner couldn't have slipped by both Gerry McCann and Jez without being seen, it's simply impossible. Amaral said she never passed the men but turned left along the little path that runs along the back of block 5. If that is true she never saw a man carrying a toddler then either but might have seen innocentman later from an upstairs vantage point.

Jane Tanner could easily have slipped past Gerry and Jez as has been gone over on here several times Angelo. 

-  Gerry had his back to the alleyway

-  He was half in the road. 

-  Jane was out of Gerrys periferal vision all the way up from the Reception area to the top of the road where she saw Tannerman. 

-  Jez didn't even know Jane, so no reason to recognise or notice her. 

-  They were between parked vehicles. 

-  The light was not terrubly bright and also a good distance away.   

-  As far as Jez was concerned, the bulk of Gerrys body was between him and Jane

-  Jane was an amorphous shape togged out in the massive O'Briens jacket

-  The jacket was dark like a shadow

-   And they were probably admiring Jezes little boy anyway


As for seeing Innocentman from an upstairs window:

1)  They flat was on the ground floor IIRC.

2)  Their apartment did not overlook the spot that Innocentman was supposedly seen by Jane


Have  anothger think about it Angelo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 06, 2020, 01:44:17 AM
Yes I agree that happened if Jane saw Gerry and Jez talking. She had to turn left on to the pathway in front of the apartments and that's why they didn't notice her! There's no other credible explanation.

you are wrong Pathfinder.  See my post just above
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 06, 2020, 01:48:30 AM
And very possibly every other night too imo.  The child was mortified at being left alone in a strange property with strange sounds all around. What the hell did the McCanns think they were doing?

IMO it follows that the child attempted to go out hearing her father chatting outside but got into difficulties

The child was mortified, was she?

But happily settled off each night.

How do you explain that ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 06, 2020, 01:50:52 AM
This statement from Stephen Carpenter has always interested me for a follow up.

leaving the restaurant, the way back to the apartment, looking to my left to check that the way was clear and I didn't see anything....My wife vaguely remembers hearing "Madeleine, Madeleine"

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

Stephen Carpenter swa a number of cars.   And I aint doing a cite cos enough people on here will have read that too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 06, 2020, 01:53:27 AM
Yes, the child wasn't a parcel, she was a thinking, feeling little girl. If what we're told is all true, she wasn't having a great time. Her sleep was disturbed on Tuesday night because her sister cried. According to her parents there was crying on Wednesday night too. On Thursday night she was deprived of her after tea playtime, being taken straight home at 5:30 and immediately bathed and got ready for bed. It could have felt like a punishment, couldn't it?

Felt like punishment?  Soz Gunit, but what twaddle.  The kid had had a big day and was exhausted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 06, 2020, 01:56:09 AM
Another bit of evidence pointing to an earlier time than 10pm.

Strange thing is IIRC, that one of the Carpenters statements was missing.  I wonder why ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 06, 2020, 07:09:04 AM
Strange thing is IIRC, that one of the Carpenters statements was missing.  I wonder why ?

If both Carpenters made statements then there are three missing; two from May 2007 and one from April 2008. A few early statements taken by UK police are missing from the files. Balu, Berry and Carole Tranmer, for example.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MISSING_PAGES.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 06, 2020, 07:14:39 AM
Felt like punishment?  Soz Gunit, but what twaddle.  The kid had had a big day and was exhausted.

According to her mother, but that's not corroborated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 06, 2020, 07:17:11 AM
According to her mother, but that's not corroborated.
You’re thinking maybe she wasn’t exhausted at all?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 06, 2020, 07:30:19 AM
You’re thinking maybe she wasn’t exhausted at all?

ABC
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 06, 2020, 09:40:40 AM
A simple yes they were fine could have sufficed ...he won't have asked did they look like angels/immaculate/well looked after ect ect

Not sure what you're saying ...how would that have meant no accident happened later.DP going OTT on how they seemed.

IMO it was more to see the mood of the family or kmcc to report back to gmcc especially if Maddie had been in trouble

Why would he ask him to go check that particular night?

I have no idea what you mean 'it was more to see the mood of the family'   Gerry asked David to pop in to see if Kate needed any help when he was on his way to get changed for tennis.





The interviewer probably asked how did they look?   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 06, 2020, 10:11:17 AM

The interviewer probably asked how did they look?   

No, not initially. It was volunteered along with a lot of other information in reply to;

1485 "Alright, what I now want you to concentrate on David is the important day really, Thursday the third of May. I want you to try and put yourself back in to that, it may help you if you think of the time when the alarm was raised, that may well bring you back to the beginning of the day and try and remember as much as you can, the time you got up, I know that you said on the first interviews that you couldn't remember an awful lot but try as best you can to remember from say midday onwards.'
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 06, 2020, 11:58:16 AM
Jane Tanner could easily have slipped past Gerry and Jez as has been gone over on here several times Angelo. 

-  Gerry had his back to the alleyway

-  He was half in the road. 

-  Jane was out of Gerrys periferal vision all the way up from the Reception area to the top of the road where she saw Tannerman. 

-  Jez didn't even know Jane, so no reason to recognise or notice her. 

They were between parked vehicles. 

-  The light was not terrubly bright and also a good distance away.   

-  As far as Jez was concerned, the bulk of Gerrys body was between him and Jane

-  Jane was an amorphous shape togged out in the massive O'Briens jacket

-  The jacket was dark like a shadow

-   And they were probably admiring Jezes little boy anyway


As for seeing Innocentman from an upstairs window:

1)  They flat was on the ground floor IIRC.

2)  Their apartment did not overlook the spot that Innocentman was supposedly seen by Jane


Have  anothger think about it Angelo

Where do I start? They were between parked vehicles. Where did you get that from? None of the 3 witness involved mentioned parked cars.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 06, 2020, 12:02:37 PM
you are wrong Pathfinder.  See my post just above

Jez disagrees. Is the witness that was there wrong too?

Q. Relative to the passerby/transient:

I can affirm that it was a quiet street and it was very unlikely that someone could have passed by me in this way but this as an assumption and I do not remember anything having happened.


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 06, 2020, 12:08:24 PM
Stephen Carpenter swa a number of cars.   And I aint doing a cite cos enough people on here will have read that too.

No cars were seen when Jane left at 9:10 to check. Read her rog!

No cars were seen when Matt and Russell left to check at 9:25. Read their statements.

"by the way, he relates never to have perceived the presence of a blue light motor vehicle in the vicinity of the Ocean Club Garden." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm
 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 06, 2020, 12:18:20 PM
No, not initially. It was volunteered along with a lot of other information in reply to;

1485 "Alright, what I now want you to concentrate on David is the important day really, Thursday the third of May. I want you to try and put yourself back in to that, it may help you if you think of the time when the alarm was raised, that may well bring you back to the beginning of the day and try and remember as much as you can, the time you got up, I know that you said on the first interviews that you couldn't remember an awful lot but try as best you can to remember from say midday onwards.'
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm


I can't see any reason to suspect David Payne of lying.   He couldn't remember what they were wearing but remembered white, that they looked like little angels,  what's wrong with that.  I think you are all making this out to be something it isn't.   If something had happened to Madeleine do you think Gerry would be out playing tennis?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 06, 2020, 12:57:02 PM
Gerry said when David returned to the tennis courts at 7pm he immediately left for the apartment.

During the afternoon of that day the rest of the group members, including the children, were at the beach, [they] having returned at 18H30, the time at which he saw DP next to the tennis court. DAVID went to visit KATE and the children and returned close to 19H00, trying to convince the deponent to continue to play tennis, to which [entreaty] he did not accede as he had already been plying for about an hour and had to go back to to his wife. Nevertheless, RUSSELL, DAVID and MATHEW stayed to play.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 06, 2020, 01:00:54 PM

I can't see any reason to suspect David Payne of lying.   He couldn't remember what they were wearing but remembered white, that they looked like little angels,  what's wrong with that.  I think you are all making this out to be something it isn't.   If something had happened to Madeleine do you think Gerry would be out playing tennis?

remembered white, that they looked like little angels,  what's wrong with that


IMO it's the way he went into so much detail that was strange....what was he expecting he might find

I believe he was asked by gmc to see if everything was ok...kmc had gone back an hour earlier than usual

He did mention about them being put to bed too early...it could be possible there was more too it.

Why was there ever an issue about it all in the first place...that he had to go check on kmc ...why
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 06, 2020, 01:10:53 PM
remembered white, that they looked like little angels,  what's wrong with that


IMO it's the way he went into so much detail that was strange....what was he expecting he might find

I believe he was asked by gmc to see if everything was ok...kmc had gone back an hour earlier than usual

He did mention about them being put to bed too early...it could be possible there was more too it.

Why was there ever an issue about it all in the first place...that he had to go check on kmc ...why

Tell me again why David Payne was lying?  Was it to give Gerry an alibi that he was playing tennis?  because he wasn't playing tennis by himself,  the person he played tennis with would have been questioned.   Is it to say that the twins were alive at the time he visited?  Well if they weren't would Gerry be playing tennis at all?   I can't imagine Gerry saying 'Dave,  do me a favour say you looked in on the children on your way to get changed for tennis will you I need an alibi'  David -  'ok I'll say I called in but get my statement different from Kate's' Kate- 'oh I could say I had just come out of the shower and had a towel wrapped around me'     David would have been better off it he was making it up to just say Kate was sitting with the children.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 06, 2020, 01:13:09 PM
remembered white, that they looked like little angels,  what's wrong with that


IMO it's the way he went into so much detail that was strange....what was he expecting he might find

I believe he was asked by gmc to see if everything was ok...kmc had gone back an hour earlier than usual

He did mention about them being put to bed too early...it could be possible there was more too it.

Why was there ever an issue about it all in the first place...that he had to go check on kmc ...why

Probably because he was feeling a bit guilty for carrying on playing tennis,  he wanted the ok,  to carry on playing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 06, 2020, 01:20:02 PM
Probably because he was feeling a bit guilty for carrying on playing tennis,  he wanted the ok,  to carry on playing.

just assuming now what you think ......but it still could be there was more to it why kmc had gone back early.

It would be important, not trivial IMO.... This was hours before Maddie went missing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 06, 2020, 01:20:40 PM
Tell me again why David Payne was lying?  Was it to give Gerry an alibi that he was playing tennis?  because he wasn't playing tennis by himself,  the person he played tennis with would have been questioned.   Is it to say that the twins were alive at the time he visited?  Well if they weren't would Gerry be playing tennis at all?   I can't imagine Gerry saying 'Dave,  do me a favour say you looked in on the children on your way to get changed for tennis will you I need an alibi'  David -  'ok I'll say I called in but get my statement different from Kate's' Kate- 'oh I could say I had just come out of the shower and had a towel wrapped around me'     David would have been better off it he was making it up to just say Kate was sitting with the children.


Nothing to do with who as alive and not FGS.

What you can't or won't grasp IMO is that he went there to see if kmcc was ok ..but why.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 06, 2020, 01:28:00 PM

I can't see any reason to suspect David Payne of lying.   He couldn't remember what they were wearing but remembered white, that they looked like little angels,  what's wrong with that.  I think you are all making this out to be something it isn't.   If something had happened to Madeleine do you think Gerry would be out playing tennis?

In my opinion he over-egged the pudding, but maybe he was nervous;

The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content...I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

His only reservation was the early time of getting the children ready for bed.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 06, 2020, 03:13:28 PM
Jane Tanner could easily have slipped past Gerry and Jez as has been gone over on here several times Angelo. 

-  Gerry had his back to the alleyway

-  He was half in the road. 

-  Jane was out of Gerrys periferal vision all the way up from the Reception area to the top of the road where she saw Tannerman. 

-  Jez didn't even know Jane, so no reason to recognise or notice her. 

-  They were between parked vehicles. 

-  The light was not terrubly bright and also a good distance away.   

-  As far as Jez was concerned, the bulk of Gerrys body was between him and Jane

-  Jane was an amorphous shape togged out in the massive O'Briens jacket

-  The jacket was dark like a shadow

-   And they were probably admiring Jezes little boy anyway


As for seeing Innocentman from an upstairs window:

1)  They flat was on the ground floor IIRC.

2)  Their apartment did not overlook the spot that Innocentman was supposedly seen by Jane


Have  anothger think about it Angelo

There is absolutely no evidence for the above in any of the statements.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 06, 2020, 05:03:02 PM
In my opinion he over-egged the pudding, but maybe he was nervous;

The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content...I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

His only reservation was the early time of getting the children ready for bed.


Hmm especially when we have another little error about bedtime that particular evening. They were ready for bed
 early- Kate said she put them to bed and covered Madeleine as it was a cold evening. (Door left ajar)
Gerry claims Maddie was as he left her (on his proud dad visit)as he put her to bed 'on top of the covers as it was a warm night.(claiming the door had moved as the motivation to check on the children).

  JT says it was cold as she was concerned that the 'abducted child' had no shoes on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 06, 2020, 07:58:56 PM

Hmm especially when we have another little error about bedtime that particular evening. They were ready for bed
 early- Kate said she put them to bed and covered Madeleine as it was a cold evening. (Door left ajar)
Gerry claims Maddie was as he left her (on his proud dad visit)as he put her to bed 'on top of the covers as it was a warm night.(claiming the door had moved as the motivation to check on the children).

  JT says it was cold as she was concerned that the 'abducted child' had no shoes on.

Then we have Kate having a shower at 6:30ish and talking to David wrapped in a towel. But;

Madeleine and the twins went to bed at around 7.30. They were in their respective beds. The interviewee and her husband stayed in their apartment to relax until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on July 06, 2020, 08:17:11 PM
Then we have Kate having a shower at 6:30ish and talking to David wrapped in a towel. But;

Madeleine and the twins went to bed at around 7.30. They were in their respective beds. The interviewee and her husband stayed in their apartment to relax until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
How do you know that Kate actually had a shower when David checked on them. With three children, she probably was intending to have a shower, but tending to her children might have delayed this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 06, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
How do you know that Kate actually had a shower when David checked on them. With three children, she probably was intending to have a shower, but tending to her children might have delayed this.

I know because she said so;

I took a quick shower. Every other evening I’d waited until the children were asleep before
showering, but as we were ahead of schedule, and I wanted to freshen up after my run, I thought I’d take
advantage of these quiet few minutes. At around sixforty, as Iwas drying myself off, there was a knock on
the patio doors and I heard David’s voice calling me. Swiftly wrapping my towel around me, I stepped into
the sitting room
[madeleine]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 06, 2020, 08:31:32 PM
I know because she said so;

I took a quick shower. Every other evening I’d waited until the children were asleep before
showering, but as we were ahead of schedule, and I wanted to freshen up after my run, I thought I’d take
advantage of these quiet few minutes. At around sixforty, as Iwas drying myself off, there was a knock on
the patio doors and I heard David’s voice calling me. Swiftly wrapping my towel around me, I stepped into
the sitting room
[madeleine]

1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''

 David Payne Reply "I can't, no.'


There are no words  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on July 06, 2020, 08:36:14 PM
I know because she said so;

I took a quick shower. Every other evening I’d waited until the children were asleep before
showering, but as we were ahead of schedule, and I wanted to freshen up after my run, I thought I’d take
advantage of these quiet few minutes. At around sixforty, as Iwas drying myself off, there was a knock on
the patio doors and I heard David’s voice calling me. Swiftly wrapping my towel around me, I stepped into
the sitting room
[madeleine]
I am aware of what she said in her statement. A ‘quick shower’ may simply mean exactly that. Preparing herself to go to dinner, may also just mean that. My thinking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 06, 2020, 08:42:21 PM
1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''

 David Payne Reply "I can't, no.'


There are no words  @)(++(*

A Gentleman, obviously.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 07, 2020, 12:46:46 AM
Where do I start? They were between parked vehicles. Where did you get that from? None of the 3 witness involved mentioned parked cars.
I got that from one of the Carpenter statements IIRC.

I think he said that there were about 6 vehicles, 5A gate to Tapas reception entrance.  I remember trying to fit 6 smallish cars on a google earth map and thinking how closely parked they were.

Seems there were cars all along that stretch
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 07, 2020, 01:12:29 AM

Hmm especially when we have another little error about bedtime that particular evening. They were ready for bed
 early- Kate said she put them to bed and covered Madeleine as it was a cold evening. (Door left ajar)
Gerry claims Maddie was as he left her (on his proud dad visit)as he put her to bed 'on top of the covers as it was a warm night.(claiming the door had moved as the motivation to check on the children).

  JT says it was cold as she was concerned that the 'abducted child' had no shoes on.

According to statements, the Mccanns only left the door open a bit, so that there was just a little light shining in, this was before they went for their meal.   The door was ajar was not at the time of putting the little ones to bed; it was at the time of Kates check, when Madeleine had vanished ... and over 2 hours later.  Shame that you got that wrong.

How do you know if Gerry was, or was not, the last to see Madeleine just before they left for dinner?   In his perception the room was warm, so he rearranged her position ?

How do you know if Kate was, or was not, the last to see Madeleine just before they left for dinner?  In Kates perception the room was a bit cool, so she pulled the bedclothes over her, but Madeleine herself had climbed on top of the bedclothes.

How do you know if Kate upon seeing Madeleine missing, in panic and desperation pull down the bedclothes a bit, then re-arrange them ?



You don't KNOW, do you ?   And neither do I.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 07, 2020, 09:36:59 AM
I got that from one of the Carpenter statements IIRC.

I think he said that there were about 6 vehicles, 5A gate to Tapas reception entrance.  I remember trying to fit 6 smallish cars on a google earth map and thinking how closely parked they were.

Seems there were cars all along that stretch

Not 6 cars, six metres to his left.

When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry's apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

One of them belonged to the chef, Pelega;

When he arrived there, by vehicle, at around 21:10, he remembers that next to the Tapas reception, he saw a vehicle, dark blue in colour, with Portuguese license plates. Although he cannot be definite, he believes it was a Fiesta or Focus.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARLINDO-PELEGA.htm

So at 21:10 there was just one car there, and two after Pelega parked. I doubt if more arrived in the next five minutes;

2115: JT leaves table, and sees GM talking with fellow resident ("Jez" Wilkins) outside the patio gate of 5A. The two were standing just up the hill from the gate towards Rua A. da Silva Road.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 07, 2020, 09:48:30 AM
from what i can see the analysis of the timeline is an attempt to implicate the McCanns....that ship surely has  sailed.
SY will have analysed it using Holmes and judging by what is happening are happy it doesnt impicate the Mcanns and ther eis an opportunity for abduction...i cant see any other conclusion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 07, 2020, 10:00:29 AM
1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''

 David Payne Reply "I can't, no.'


There are no words  @)(++(*

Can you tell me in your opinion,  why David Payne would lie about calling on Kate?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 07, 2020, 10:42:50 AM
from what i can see the analysis of the timeline is an attempt to implicate the McCanns....that ship surely has  sailed.
SY will have analysed it using Holmes and judging by what is happening are happy it doesnt impicate the Mcanns and ther eis an opportunity for abduction...i cant see any other conclusion
It's just diversion tactics and denial.  It's a bit like being trapped in the jungle with a bunch of Japanese soldiers who haven't realised the war is over.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 07, 2020, 01:39:46 PM
Can you tell me in your opinion,  why David Payne would lie about calling on Kate?

I think David was in the apartment as he said and returned to the tennis courts at 7pm as Gerry said in his statement on 10 May 2007. Kate being in a towel I find strange because he would have remembered! David was missing from 6:30 to 7pm so where else would he be?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 07, 2020, 01:52:29 PM
I think David was in the apartment as he said and returned to the tennis courts at 7pm as Gerry said in his statement on 10 May 2007. Kate being in a towel I find strange because he would have remembered! David was missing from 6:30 to 7pm so where else would he be?

David Payne being a gentleman would never have mentioned that Kate was only wearing a towel.

He spent the rest of the time at his own appartment changing into tennis gear.

I can hardly believe that you can't see what is so obvious.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 07, 2020, 02:12:42 PM
I think David was in the apartment as he said and returned to the tennis courts at 7pm as Gerry said in his statement on 10 May 2007. Kate being in a towel I find strange because he would have remembered! David was missing from 6:30 to 7pm so where else would he be?
If Kate had answered the door stark naked I would have expected him to remember, but why do you think a wearing a towel after a shower should be equally as memorable?  In terms of titillation value and remarkability is a towel right up there with sexy lingerie and stockings and suspenders?  I'm curious to know why this is such a noteworthy point for some.  It was a seaside holiday, with women presumably to be found in swimming costumes, bikinis, wet, with towels a fairly common sight.  Please explain your rationale for why Payne would defintely have remembered this? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 07, 2020, 02:20:03 PM
David Payne being a gentleman would never have mentioned that Kate was only wearing a towel.

He spent the rest of the time at his own appartment changing into tennis gear.

I can hardly believe that you can't see what is so obvious.

Until 7pm? The time Matt gave for them to be leaving the tennis courts?

About 18h00 he, ROB and DP went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting GM was already there, with KM and her children watching the match, the rest of the women and children joining them [KM and children] later.

At 19h00 he, ROB and DP had finished the match, having then gone to their respective apartments in which they found other members of the group.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 07, 2020, 02:22:10 PM
Until 7pm? The time Matt gave for them to be leaving the tennis courts?

About 18h00 he, ROB and DP went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting GM was already there, with KM and her children watching the match, the rest of the women and children joining them [KM and children] later.

At 19h00 he, ROB and DP had finished the match, having then gone to their respective apartments in which they found other members of the group.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

Sorry.  I don't understand what you are saying.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 07, 2020, 06:59:20 PM
David Payne being a gentleman would never have mentioned that Kate was only wearing a towel.

He spent the rest of the time at his own appartment changing into tennis gear.

I can hardly believe that you can't see what is so obvious.

Nonsense. This was to the police. Tennis gear? He was wearing shorts on CCTV. What did he need to change into?

Gerry said, were just absolutely knackered and Kate was getting them bathed and ready for bed.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Fiona said that Gerry told her Kate was bathing the kids not herself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 07, 2020, 07:25:52 PM
I went back to the apartment, got the tennis gear and back onto the courts or back to the courts area, erm, and the other guys went to get their stuff. Erm, and I think Dave said that he'd been to the apartment, but I don't know that for definite, that's just something I think has come out, I didn't know anything about that. So we went, got our stuff and came back to the courts, which were already in play, because the social had already started. And Gerry was down playing on a court, I think there was only three of them, I think the, erm, the coach, whose name I can't remember, the tennis coach, the blonde haired bloke, erm, was playing to make up the numbers. And so we waited and watched for a little while, so we didn't get on court until, phew, sometime closer to seven, so maybe sort of quarter to or twenty to or ten to seven we went down to the court. And we were hoping that Gerry would actually stay and make up the four, because everybody, there was one court that was full of four and then there was a three over he, but he, erm, sort of went back to, erm, to sort of help with, you know, Kate and the kids and didn't stay to sort of play with us and there was just the three of us and I think the coach stayed and played to make up the four initially, but didn't want to stay, so he didn't stay the whole time. But we played then for, I think the best part of an hour, erm, before going back to the apartment.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 07, 2020, 07:45:44 PM
I went back to the apartment, got the tennis gear and back onto the courts or back to the courts area, erm, and the other guys went to get their stuff. Erm, and I think Dave said that he'd been to the apartment, but I don't know that for definite, that's just something I think has come out, I didn't know anything about that. So we went, got our stuff and came back to the courts, which were already in play, because the social had already started. And Gerry was down playing on a court, I think there was only three of them, I think the, erm, the coach, whose name I can't remember, the tennis coach, the blonde haired bloke, erm, was playing to make up the numbers. And so we waited and watched for a little while, so we didn't get on court until, phew, sometime closer to seven, so maybe sort of quarter to or twenty to or ten to seven we went down to the court. And we were hoping that Gerry would actually stay and make up the four, because everybody, there was one court that was full of four and then there was a three over he, but he, erm, sort of went back to, erm, to sort of help with, you know, Kate and the kids and didn't stay to sort of play with us and there was just the three of us and I think the coach stayed and played to make up the four initially, but didn't want to stay, so he didn't stay the whole time. But we played then for, I think the best part of an hour, erm, before going back to the apartment.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

So his story has changed significantly since 10th May 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 07, 2020, 07:50:54 PM
So his story has changed significantly since 10th May 2007.

Hearsay and very disjointed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 08, 2020, 01:21:19 AM
I went back to the apartment, got the tennis gear and back onto the courts or back to the courts area, erm, and the other guys went to get their stuff. Erm, and I think Dave said that he'd been to the apartment, but I don't know that for definite, that's just something I think has come out, I didn't know anything about that. So we went, got our stuff and came back to the courts, which were already in play, because the social had already started. And Gerry was down playing on a court, I think there was only three of them, I think the, erm, the coach, whose name I can't remember, the tennis coach, the blonde haired bloke, erm, was playing to make up the numbers. And so we waited and watched for a little while, so we didn't get on court until, phew, sometime closer to seven, so maybe sort of quarter to or twenty to or ten to seven we went down to the court. And we were hoping that Gerry would actually stay and make up the four, because everybody, there was one court that was full of four and then there was a three over he, but he, erm, sort of went back to, erm, to sort of help with, you know, Kate and the kids and didn't stay to sort of play with us and there was just the three of us and I think the coach stayed and played to make up the four initially, but didn't want to stay, so he didn't stay the whole time. But we played then for, I think the best part of an hour, erm, before going back to the apartment.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
[M Oldfield's  Statement 10th May Again, there were several omissions from, and errors in, the original Portuguese. I corrected those that I found. Also, much of the Portuguese statement is written with a convoluted 'future + past' verb construct that attributes an 'uncertainty' to the words, whereas I have translated much of it in a non-literal manner to make it read more definitively. Hence, the reader must understand that neither the Portuguese nor my translation necessarily constitute the exact words spoken by Oldfield.
If you read MO's Rogatory Letter testimony you will get a sense of the difficulty the Portuguese interpreter faced when listening to this man.]https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

No doubt as with the interview on the tenth (described above on the internet files) the interview on the fourth conducted under the same system of interpreter and no visual or audio record would present the same difficulties.

I don't see how it would be possible to determine any alleged 'inconsistencies' from either of these.  In my opinion a really slipshod way of doing things.
Speaking of slipshod ... how on earth does a big slice of a rogatory interview have the slightest connection to the subject of the thread which is Amaral??
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 08, 2020, 12:14:50 PM
I think David was in the apartment as he said and returned to the tennis courts at 7pm as Gerry said in his statement on 10 May 2007. Kate being in a towel I find strange because he would have remembered! David was missing from 6:30 to 7pm so where else would he be?

He wasn't in the apartment from 630 to 7 he went back to his own apartment to change for tennis.   It could be that David Payne looked away when Kate appeared and didn't exactly see what she was wearing,  just was aware she was covered up by something.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 08, 2020, 11:20:55 PM
He wasn't in the apartment from 630 to 7 he went back to his own apartment to change for tennis.   It could be that David Payne looked away when Kate appeared and didn't exactly see what she was wearing,  just was aware she was covered up by something.

Why would he look away ? He didn’t know that she had just had a shower and may be wearing a towel.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 09, 2020, 12:28:50 AM
He wasn't in the apartment from 630 to 7 he went back to his own apartment to change for tennis.   It could be that David Payne looked away when Kate appeared and didn't exactly see what she was wearing,  just was aware she was covered up by something.

He was wearing shorts. What was he changing into? You wear shorts and a t-shirt to play tennis - what he was wearing on CCTV at the beach at 18:13.

(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/13_12_VOLUME_XIIa_Processo_Page_3273_small.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 09, 2020, 12:32:58 AM
He was wearing shorts. What was he changing into? You wear shorts and a t-shirt to play tennis - what he was wearing on CCTV at the beach.
Mibbee he was changing into clothes which weren't damp with sweat and which didn't have sand in them?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 09, 2020, 12:42:20 AM
And maybe he didn't!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 02:35:03 AM
You may find this hard to believe but there are some McCann sceptic obsessives who choose PdL as a holdiay destination because of Madeleine’s disappearance not in spite of it.  I know, sick isn’t it?



Just seen your post, VS

And I found a link the ghoul:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/guide-defends-ghoulish-organised-madeleine-9843543


What sort of existence has that freak of a misfit got? And why would a man (or anyone) be so thoroughly obsessed with a little girl who vanished 13 years ago? And how could people what to travel there and take tours?! I bet some of the weirdos come on here to discuss the case...

Psychiatrists will tell you that these people who find it “entertaining” — which they MUST do — need investigating themselves. It’s extremely unhealthy to be so sickly obsessed, and like the weird women who start relationships with mass murderers in prison, these ghouls get some twisted pleasure from visiting the scene and gruesomely staring at where Maddie was taken. Some psychiatrists would go so far as to wonder what these freaks interest are...let’s face it, it’s not a holiday attraction to go and gasp at where a little girl was stolen by a paedophilic murderer. They get a thrill from it...or they wouldn’t do it. Just like Jimmy Saville got sexual kicks from going into mortuaries...and we all know what he was.

I find it utterly depressing to know such sick ghouls are on this planet. And they all seem similar...

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 02:37:24 AM
I really find it very childish when people compare the McCann's with an evil serial killer,  I've seen a picture of Rose West and the McCann's and a comment underneath.  What is wrong with you.  Do you think it makes you clever or does it boost your ego?    The shock response,   it doesn't work you know,  it makes you look like an empty brained troll.


As the saying goes...if it walks like a duck, quack likes a duck...


WS has perfectly demonstrated they are an EBT
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 02:45:30 AM
Perhaps people had started looking for the missing child BEFORE 10pm..... and naturally some who knew her would call her name.


What don’t you understand about the facts?

It’s been established what time Maddie was found missing; and it’s been established what time everyone started searching

Witnesses galore saw the group, including individuals such as Jane Tanner at 9:15pm; Gerry talking to a neighbour; Kate with the group inside the Tapas Bar when one of the group did her check for her at 9:30PM

What do you have trouble with in comprehending that?

Let’s assume Maddie was discovered missing sooner (she wasn’t, but just suppose) why wouldn’t they have all jumped up when Kate ran back at a different time (according to you — who wasn’t there) and said “Kate came back at 8/9/9:30 PM?

They didn’t say that because, you know why? It didn’t happen.

Why are you so terribly, terribly confused?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 02:51:56 AM
More speculation.

I guarantee that Faithlilly went to PdL and took photos.

I know which shoes Jane Tanner wore on the evening of 3rd May; flip flops.

Cite?

You weren’t there, so that’s speculation

But if JAne Tanner wore flip-flops all the more reason she wouldn’t have been heard as she nipped past Gerry talking to a neighbour while he had his back to her.

Had she been swearing stilettos, he possibly would have looked back..but even then not necessarily l
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 02:56:31 AM
Not just sceptics, there's at least one supporter who makes pilgrimages there.

Personally I wouldn't touch the place for anything, but then Portugal doesn't attract me  at all


Good grief!

What a sick, twisted ghoul THEY must be!

Do they pop into mortuaries too to have a snoop?

WTF is WRONG with them?!

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 03:08:29 AM

I saw the video an I don't think he made many people laugh maybe because they weren't Scottish then. LOL


I saw that video and Gerry was joking...he laughed as did the others

You’re trying (poorly) to twist events

Why is that?

It just makes you look like you have a personal axe to grind...strange
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 03:18:26 AM
Enough of the personal attacks already!!!

Investigative research isn’t “sick” anyway.

If you don’t think pilgrimages are sick, you’re in the minority and must be one of them yourself

All this crap a few misfits of society say making out they’re going for “investigative research” when they’re thick as two planks; have no qualifications; are unwanted; and know nothing about investigations is truly embarrassing for you.

D’you seriously think anyone at all would take notice of someone who has no training, knowledge or inside information? Why would you be doing it in the first place? It’s not your business. The police HATE potty busybodies sending them their inane suggestions that are risible.

Some people seem to think they’re special, clever, and more knowledgeable than SY detectives! The embarrassment!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 03:19:33 AM
No he says he left the Tapas around 9:15 - 9:30 and his wife heard the girls name on the way back to their apartment. Pure speculation but the voice she heard may have been coming from 5a. It could have been someone carrying out the very first action following a "safe approach" in the CPR algorithm: "The majority of paediatric cardiorespiratory arrests are not caused by primary cardiac problems but are secondary to other causes, mostly respiratory insufficiency; hence the order of delivering the resuscitation sequence: airway (A),breathing (B), and circulation (C).Rescuers should assess the responsiveness of a child"


Sigh...🙄
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 03:29:42 AM
No.  Madeleine was worn out she'd had an hectic day,  she had her stories before bed and could hardly join in with the singing bit.


Maddie looked really happy in all the photos, and the crèche play-minder said how sweet, polite and happy Maddie was.

Children LOVE holidays! They don’t get nervous at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 03:42:26 AM

Well, that is a possibility why did DP go into so much detail when a simple they were all fine and normal would have sufficed.....why did gmcc ask him in the first place to go check everything was ok.


So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry's apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we've looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we've got that I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he'd, he'd played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the tennis coach from Mark Warner.


What you fail to realise is that statements (especially translated ones) in answer to a question looks very different written down in word, to how it’s expressed in the spoken moment.

Having someone explain something often comes across completely different to when you read it.

He was obviously just filling-in things; wracking his brains; adding every detail possible

It’s so obvious...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 03:49:03 AM

Well, that is a possibility why did DP go into so much detail when a simple they were all fine and normal would have sufficed.....why did gmcc ask him in the first place to go check everything was ok.


So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry's apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we've looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we've got that I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they've had such a great time, they're really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can't remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn't there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who'd had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he'd, he'd played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the tennis coach from Mark Warner.


So, what? Did you expect DP to waltz into the police station and just say five words “The children were all fine” and then walk out?!

And as for why GM asked DP to check on Kate could’ve been for a hundred different reasons, all normal.

What it does prove, though, is those nutjobs who claim Maddie disappeared before bedtime are talking out their backsides...

Nutters.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 03:53:23 AM
A simple yes they were fine could have sufficed ...he won't have asked did they look like angels/immaculate/well looked after ect ect

Not sure what you're saying ...how would that have meant no accident happened later.DP going OTT on how they seemed.

IMO it was more to see the mood of the family or kmcc to report back to gmcc especially if Maddie had been in trouble

Why would he ask him to go check that particular night?


Of course he’d have asked DP what the children were wearing; if they were clean; seemed happy; upset...

How ridiculous to think he wouldn’t ask that!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 04:00:51 AM
The interesting bit imo is "I said to Kate, you know it's a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed." It was indeed.


The twins were toddlers! And Maddie was just under four.

They’d had a fun-packed day; had been bathed and fed, and were tired!

It obviously WASN’T too early for them as they all fell asleep soon after.

If their normal bedtime was 7pm what’s just half an hour if they’re tired?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 08:49:10 AM
Cite?

You weren’t there, so that’s speculation

But if JAne Tanner wore flip-flops all the more reason she wouldn’t have been heard as she nipped past Gerry talking to a neighbour while he had his back to her.

Had she been swearing stilettos, he possibly would have looked back..but even then not necessarily l

Every one of your posts are opinion and contain speculation, imo, so I find it hilarious that you are asking for a cite. However;

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Faithlilly.htm

I couldn’t walk that quickly because I’d got these silly flip-flops on and I couldn’t walk that, that well in them, so to speak.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 08:52:18 AM

What don’t you understand about the facts?

It’s been established what time Maddie was found missing; and it’s been established what time everyone started searching

Witnesses galore saw the group, including individuals such as Jane Tanner at 9:15pm; Gerry talking to a neighbour; Kate with the group inside the Tapas Bar when one of the group did her check for her at 9:30PM

What do you have trouble with in comprehending that?

Let’s assume Maddie was discovered missing sooner (she wasn’t, but just suppose) why wouldn’t they have all jumped up when Kate ran back at a different time (according to you — who wasn’t there) and said “Kate came back at 8/9/9:30 PM?

They didn’t say that because, you know why? It didn’t happen.

Why are you so terribly, terribly confused?

"Witnesses galore saw the group"

Not true. Unless, of course, you can name them?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 09, 2020, 08:53:15 AM
Every one of your posts are opinion and contain speculation, imo, so I find it hilarious that you are asking for a cite. However;

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Faithlilly.htm

I couldn’t walk that quickly because I’d got these silly flip-flops on and I couldn’t walk that, that well in them, so to speak.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Think ISpy needs to do a bit more research.  By the way ISpy, the clue is in the name Flip Flop or as I call them, Clippety Clop due to the sound they make on a paved surface.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 08:57:05 AM
If you don’t think pilgrimages are sick, you’re in the minority and must be one of them yourself

All this crap a few misfits of society say making out they’re going for “investigative research” when they’re thick as two planks; have no qualifications; are unwanted; and know nothing about investigations is truly embarrassing for you.

D’you seriously think anyone at all would take notice of someone who has no training, knowledge or inside information? Why would you be doing it in the first place? It’s not your business. The police HATE potty busybodies sending them their inane suggestions that are risible.

Some people seem to think they’re special, clever, and more knowledgeable than SY detectives! The embarrassment!!

That post is very amusing, although you probably have no idea why.  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 09:02:16 AM

The twins were toddlers! And Maddie was just under four.

They’d had a fun-packed day; had been bathed and fed, and were tired!

It obviously WASN’T too early for them as they all fell asleep soon after.

If their normal bedtime was 7pm what’s just half an hour if they’re tired?

Sigh..More speculation......

At around 8pm, the children are put to bed until the following morning when the described routines start all over again.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 09:03:54 AM
Unless you go to PdL in a professional capacity to report on or investigate the scene of Madeleine’s disappearance I think choosing it as a holiday destination because it’s where she disappeared from is sick.  It’s grief tourism and in very poor taste.  I have a great interest in the case but I wouldn’t holiday there if it was the last place on earth.


They’d be better spending their hard-earned cash on seeing a therapist

It isn’t normal to want to spend a HOLIDAY snooping around the places and apartment a little girl was abducted 13 years ago. Do these oddballs go alone? Or drag family members with them? I bet the locals are sickened by these ghouls.

They are obviously deluded too: they claim it’s on the pretext of “investigative reasons”, but have no qualifications; don’t get paid; and despite their sick pilgrimages are still clueless. In fact, more so going by the ludicrous rumours they start!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 09, 2020, 09:04:25 AM
Sigh..More speculation......

At around 8pm, the children are put to bed until the following morning when the described routines start all over again.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Meanwhile....in Germany
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 09:07:52 AM
Meanwhile....in Germany

Don't you mean "meanwhile...Goncalo Amaral"? We are so off topic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 09, 2020, 09:14:04 AM
Don't you mean "meanwhile...Goncalo Amaral"? We are so off topic.

i@m commneting on your post so it's on topic. I think its ridiculous still arguing about what tim ethe children were put to bed etc when there are major developments
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 09:19:06 AM
I have to agree with Faith on this one. Tanner couldn't have slipped by both Gerry McCann and Jez without being seen, it's simply impossible. Amaral said she never passed the men but turned left along the little path that runs along the back of block 5. If that is true she never saw a man carrying a toddler then either but might have seen innocentman later from an upstairs vantage point.


Jane Tanner was actually checking up on HER children: that was verified.

As it was with Gerry.

As it was with the neighbour.

You seem to forget it was dark; Jane was wearing rubber flip-flops; and why in earth would she have called out to Gerry for no reason whatsoever? Why would the neighbour have noticed her when he was looking at Gerry and talking to him?

Why would the neighbour notice a man walking along carrying a child? Gerry didn’t notice a man, either...and that would have been a good excuse for him if he “suddenly remembered” such a sighting?

And WTF would Jane make such a sighting up?

And tell me HOW one year later (May have been less) that very man JT saw cane forward?! He SAID categorically it was HIM carrying his daughter back from night crèche. His statement was checked out and corroborated by the crèche staff and his wife. And people on here are saying it didn’t happen...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 10:01:35 AM
No-one outside the group of friends has verified that Jane was checking on her children.
Jes W. saw Gerry, but at what time?
You seem to have added a word; who said the flip flops were rubber?
How dark is it in May in Portugal at 21:10ish? Not completely is the answer;

I think it was fairly dark by this time
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

The man carrying his daughter wasn't returning from the creche at that moment, he was heading towards the creche and away from his apartment.
I don't think I've seen anything saying his statement was corroborated by the creche staff and his wife; did you make that up?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 10:13:07 AM
Stephen Carpenter swa a number of cars.   And I aint doing a cite cos enough people on here will have read that too.


Stephen Carpenter also verifies that he and his family were all in the Tapas Bar until approximately 9:30pm and gave the police a full in-depth account of not just Kate & Gerry’s occasional short trips to check on the children, but of the rest of the group too

He also states that after leaving the TB his children were exhausted too, and he and his wife put them to bed after reaching their apartment at around 10:30pm, the same time they themselves went to bed

It seems it took an hour in all to do all that, but equally, he is estimating on times. He isn’t specific on any of the times except to say the T9 were all in the TB at 8:30pm — and were still all there when they left “around” 9:30pm

So, if he’s saying his wife (not him, though) “vaguely” remembered a voice saying “Madeleine, Madeleine”, given how he can’t be accurate on any times, how can he say his wife “may have heard” someone calling Madeleine at any specific time when he categorically says he put his children to bed at 10:30pm. As VAGUE as his wife was about hearing Madeleine’s name, he’s just as vague about the timings from when they left the Tapas Bar. One hour seems quite long to reach your apartment and put your children to bed, so he may well have left the TB later and didn’t realise the time, or didn’t like to say they kept their children up until about 10pm

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 10:29:29 AM

Stephen Carpenter also verifies that he and his family were all in the Tapas Bar until approximately 9:30pm and gave the police a full in-depth account of not just Kate & Gerry’s occasional short trips to check on the children, but of the rest of the group too

He also states that after leaving the TB his children were exhausted too, and he and his wife put them to bed after reaching their apartment at around 10:30pm, the same time they themselves went to bed

It seems it took an hour in all to do all that, but equally, he is estimating on times. He isn’t specific on any of the times except to say the T9 were all in the TB at 8:30pm — and were still all there when they left “around” 9:30pm

So, if he’s saying his wife (not him, though) “vaguely” remembered a voice saying “Madeleine, Madeleine”, given how he can’t be accurate on any times, how can he say his wife “may have heard” someone calling Madeleine at any specific time when he categorically says he put his children to bed at 10:30pm. As VAGUE as his wife was about hearing Madeleine’s name, he’s just as vague about the timings from when they left the Tapas Bar. One hour seems quite long to reach your apartment and put your children to bed, so he may well have left the TB later and didn’t realise the time, or didn’t like to say they kept their children up until about 10pm

You seem to be unashamedly making things up in most of your posts.

"he categorically says he put his children to bed at 10:30pm."

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 10:51:21 AM
just assuming now what you think ......but it still could be there was more to it why kmc had gone back early.

It would be important, not trivial IMO.... This was hours before Maddie went missing.


Trying to find something suspicious about Kate taking the children back to the apartment half an hour or one hour earlier than usual, when she could’ve have done that for all the reasons I’ve suggested above, or even for herself, makes YOU look odd — not Kate. How do you know she wasn’t feeling tired herself? How do you know she may have wanted a shower sooner rather than later? How do you know she may not have wanted to do something specific?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 11:01:27 AM
Then we have Kate having a shower at 6:30ish and talking to David wrapped in a towel. But;

Madeleine and the twins went to bed at around 7.30. They were in their respective beds. The interviewee and her husband stayed in their apartment to relax until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm


Have you ever been on holiday, Gunit? With three young children all under 4-years-old?

As a mother myself, I can tell you now — and most women would agree with this — if someone knocks or calls at the door when you’re running round getting your children ready for bed and may still have your bikini on, you’ll instinctively put a towel or robe around yourself when answering the door.

There’s a big difference between being in a bikini by a swimming pool, and answering your front door just wearing one. Most women are modest.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 11:04:16 AM
I am aware of what she said in her statement. A ‘quick shower’ may simply mean exactly that. Preparing herself to go to dinner, may also just mean that. My thinking.


Sounds perfectly normal to me...

Can’t understand why some people are trying to make something out of nothing

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 11:11:58 AM

Have you ever been on holiday, Gunit? With three young children all under 4-years-old?

As a mother myself, I can tell you now — and most women would agree with this — if someone knocks or calls at the door when you’re running round getting your children ready for bed and may still have your bikini on, you’ll instinctively put a towel or robe around yourself when answering the door.

There’s a big difference between being in a bikini by a swimming pool, and answering your front door just wearing one.

You've missed the point of my post completely.  @)(++(* It was whether Kate McCann had a shower at 6:30ish or a bath after 7:30ish. At different times she claimed different things.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 09, 2020, 11:13:44 AM

Sounds perfectly normal to me...

Can’t understand why some people are trying to make something out of nothing

No, I can't either.  But I think there is some suggestion that there was something going on between Kate and David Payne, hence the stretch to half an hour.

Actually, worse was said by some, but I am not going to repeat that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 11:19:08 AM
He was wearing shorts. What was he changing into? You wear shorts and a t-shirt to play tennis - what he was wearing on CCTV at the beach at 18:13.

(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/13_12_VOLUME_XIIa_Processo_Page_3273_small.jpg)


I play tennis and my family/friends who do too, all dress in TENNIS gear.

It’s what all dedicated players do.

Those shorts he’s wearing in that image wouldn’t be that suitable for tennis. Some people might wear them, but dedicated tennis players wouldn’t.

I take it you don’t play tennis? In fact, tennis clubs have quite strict rules on what to wear, and whilst that wouldn’t apply on holiday tennis players would naturally wear their tennis gear.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 11:20:52 AM
No, I can't either.  But I think there is some suggestion that there was something going on between Kate and David Payne, hence the stretch to half an hour.

Actually, worse was said by some, but I am not going to repeat that.

Just for the record, no such thing has been suggested by me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 11:32:49 AM
And maybe he didn't!


And maybe he did.

You. Don’t. Know.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 11:36:09 AM

I play tennis and my family/friends who do too, all dress in TENNIS gear.

It’s what all dedicated players do.

Those shorts he’s wearing in that image wouldn’t be that suitable for tennis. Some people might wear them, but dedicated tennis players wouldn’t.

I take it you don’t play tennis? In fact, tennis clubs have quite strict rules on what to wear, and whilst that wouldn’t apply on holiday tennis players would naturally wear their tennis gear.

I don't think Mr Payne would describe himself as a dedicated tennis player. Neither do I see any evidence of people wearing specifically tennis clothes.

(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/H/68.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 11:37:07 AM
Every one of your posts are opinion and contain speculation, imo, so I find it hilarious that you are asking for a cite. However;

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Faithlilly.htm

I couldn’t walk that quickly because I’d got these silly flip-flops on and I couldn’t walk that, that well in them, so to speak.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm


That’s BS too

Not all of my posts are opinions at all.

I don’t try and read something into an innocuous event like you do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 09, 2020, 11:37:56 AM
No, I can't either.  But I think there is some suggestion that there was something going on between Kate and David Payne, hence the stretch to half an hour.

Actually, worse was said by some, but I am not going to repeat that.

You must visit some strange places
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 11:44:37 AM
"Witnesses galore saw the group"

Not true. Unless, of course, you can name them?


I have a life...I can’t dedicate all my time to leafing through statements — most of which are 13 years old.

I’m not even interested in all the irrelevant minutiae of who wore what playing tennis/walking down the street/what time they showered/what time they all got to the Tapas Bar


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 09, 2020, 11:44:59 AM
You must visit some strange places

I have, but this isn't one of them.  And nor is it going to be.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 11:49:23 AM
Think ISpy needs to do a bit more research.  By the way ISpy, the clue is in the name Flip Flop or as I call them, Clippety Clop due to the sound they make on a paved surface.

Yes, and when two men are having a conversation, quite possibly animated at that, why would they turn round if they heard someone passing wearing flip-flops? IF the did indeed hear the...Would YOU? MOST normal men having a conversation WOULDN'T turn round even if they heard a GROUP of people passing by...

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 11:52:29 AM

I have a life...I can’t dedicate all my time to leafing through statements — most of which are 13 years old.

I’m not even interested in all the irrelevant minutiae of who wore what playing tennis/walking down the street/what time they showered/what time they all got to the Tapas Bar

If you're too busy to do research you should stop posting as if you have knowledge.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 11:55:02 AM
Think ISpy needs to do a bit more research.  By the way ISpy, the clue is in the name Flip Flop or as I call them, Clippety Clop due to the sound they make on a paved surface.

By the way, I don’t NEED nor desire to do more research

I’m not a police officer

I’m not investigating the case — the police are getting paid to do that...

I’m entitled to give my opinions, which are all based on facts — not warped desires. I don’t spend my precious time trying to be an armchair detective when I don’t have the expertise, knowledge or all the information on a case that’s nothing to do with me.

Some people might want to throw 10 years of their lives away obsessing over the case and writing about it on an hourly basis, which I find weird and very sad.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 09, 2020, 11:58:20 AM
If you're too busy to do research you should stop posting as if you have knowledge.

So should a few others if that were to be the rule.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 11:59:15 AM
By the way, I don’t NEED nor desire to do more research

I’m not a police officer

I’m not investigating the case — the police are getting paid to do that...

I’m entitled to give my opinions, which are all based on facts — not warped desires. I don’t spend my precious time trying to be an armchair detective when I don’t have the expertise, knowledge or all the information on a case that’s nothing to do with me.

Some people might want to throw 10 years of their lives away obsessing over the case and writing about it on an hourly basis, which I find weird and very sad.

As your opinions are abvious not based on facts you either need to research your 'facts' or make it clear your posts are not factual.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 12:00:53 PM
Sigh..More speculation......

At around 8pm, the children are put to bed until the following morning when the described routines start all over again.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

So???

The children all went to bed an hour earlier because they were tired. So what?

Bedtimes can vary.

Mind you, you yourself were a child once...there must have been times when you went to bed earlier/later than normal...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 12:05:15 PM
You seem to be unashamedly making things up in most of your posts.

"he categorically says he put his children to bed at 10:30pm."

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm


Read on...

And stop omitting things

He said they put them to bed at 10:30pm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 12:08:08 PM
No-one outside the group of friends has verified that Jane was checking on her children.
Jes W. saw Gerry, but at what time?
You seem to have added a word; who said the flip flops were rubber?
How dark is it in May in Portugal at 21:10ish? Not completely is the answer;

I think it was fairly dark by this time
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

The man carrying his daughter wasn't returning from the creche at that moment, he was heading towards the creche and away from his apartment.
I don't think I've seen anything saying his statement was corroborated by the creche staff and his wife; did you make that up?

The man Jane Tanner saw came forward, and if you’ve missed that because you’re concentrating on her flip-flops you need to catch up...

Everything in that statement was corroborated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 12:13:30 PM
No-one outside the group of friends has verified that Jane was checking on her children.
Jes W. saw Gerry, but at what time?
You seem to have added a word; who said the flip flops were rubber?
How dark is it in May in Portugal at 21:10ish? Not completely is the answer;

I think it was fairly dark by this time
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

The man carrying his daughter wasn't returning from the creche at that moment, he was heading towards the creche and away from his apartment.
I don't think I've seen anything saying his statement was corroborated by the creche staff and his wife; did you make that up?


You should know what I’ve said is correct. If you have forgotten the facts, read them all again.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 12:14:44 PM
You seem to be unashamedly making things up in most of your posts.

"he categorically says he put his children to bed at 10:30pm."

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm


Yo need to read it again...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 12:19:28 PM
No-one outside the group of friends has verified that Jane was checking on her children.
Jes W. saw Gerry, but at what time?
You seem to have added a word; who said the flip flops were rubber?
How dark is it in May in Portugal at 21:10ish? Not completely is the answer;

I think it was fairly dark by this time
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

The man carrying his daughter wasn't returning from the creche at that moment, he was heading towards the creche and away from his apartment.
I don't think I've seen anything saying his statement was corroborated by the creche staff and his wife; did you make that up?


At 9:30pm it’s dark — dark enough to need lighting

All countries on the Med, including Portugal which is on the Atlantic get dark very quickly at night. Unlike England.

I’ve travelled all over the world, and lived abroad too, so I know what I’m talking about

Most everyone knows the sunsets drop quickly like a stone abroad and it gets dark much earlier than it does in Northern Europe
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 12:21:04 PM
You're so busy ranting you've missed the point of my post completely.  @)(++(* It was whether Kate McCann had a shower at 6:30ish or a bath after 7:30ish. At different times she claimed different things.

Why are you putting laughing emojis on here?

Don’t you think it’s inappropriate on such a tragic topic?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 12:25:58 PM
No, I can't either.  But I think there is some suggestion that there was something going on between Kate and David Payne, hence the stretch to half an hour.

Actually, worse was said by some, but I am not going to repeat that.


Just sad busybodies who are jealous, I’d say...despite what Kate and Gerry have had to endure.

They must be thick as sh*t if they think (hope) DP and Kate had a fling. Bit difficult with three toddlers in the apartment; an open sliding door that anyone could walk through at any time, not least Gerry or the partner of DP.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 12:26:55 PM
I find You should know what I’ve said is correct. If you have forgotten the facts, read them all again.

You claim knowledge but admit you have done no research. I dare to accuse you of making things up because I've worked through your recent posts and have demonstrated that much of what you have posted is incorrect, using cites. In addition you constantly snipe at others and cast aspersions on their lives and characters. I'm beginning to wonder what your motivation is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 12:28:21 PM

Yo need to read it again.

Just produce your evidence if you have any.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 12:39:44 PM

At 9:30pm it’s dark — dark enough to need lighting

All countries on the Med, including Portugal which is on the Atlantic get dark very quickly at night. Unlike England.

I’ve travelled all over the world, and lived abroad too, so I know what I’m talking about

Most everyone knows the sunsets drop quickly like a stone abroad and it gets dark much earlier than it does in Northern Europe

The time was 21:10, not 21:30. I was repeating the words of someone who was there, so neither my opinion or yours is relevant. Her partner says it wasn't completely dark at 21:30;

Matt and I decided we would go and check on the children.  We walked together I recall that the light was fading
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 12:44:09 PM
Why are you putting laughing emojis on here?

Don’t you think it’s inappropriate on such a tragic topic?

You come across utterly unpleasant.

I find it unpleasant when someone repeatedly resorts to personal remarks to try to discredit others.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 09, 2020, 12:48:01 PM
As your opinions are abvious not based on facts you either need to research your 'facts' or make it clear your posts are not factual.

That is surely a difficult one.  Amaral wrote a book based on the actions and conclusions of his botched investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

Almost everything he opined on was disproved and overturned by all subsequent official and competent investigators starting with Rebelo.

That being the case therefore opinions relying for their basis on the flawed book etc which was based on the flawed opinions of a very flawed man must by definition run the risk of being similarly flawed.

How do you G-unit, determine what is fact and what is fiction when much of what is regarded as fact originates from the assiduously vindictive pen and tongue of a convicted perjurer?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
That is surely a difficult one.  Amaral wrote a book based on the actions and conclusions of his botched investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

Almost everything he opined on was disproved and overturned by all subsequent official and competent investigators starting with Rebelo.

That being the case therefore opinions relying for their basis on the flawed book etc which was based on the flawed opinions of a very flawed man must by definition run the risk of being similarly flawed.

How do you G-unit, determine what is fact and what is fiction when much of what is regarded as fact originates from the assiduously vindictive pen and tongue of a convicted perjurer?

You seem to think that your opinion about Amaral's book is the correct one. Your opinion wasn't shared by everyone you know;

  (Items 27 & 28) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5931.0

Many claims have been made recently on this thread. No cites have been provided to uphold the claims. In fact there are cites which contradict those claims. Based on that I feel justified in calling those claims fictional.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 09, 2020, 01:35:20 PM
You seem to think that your opinion about Amaral's book is the correct one. Your opinion wasn't shared by everyone you know;

  (Items 27 & 28) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5931.0

Many claims have been made recently on this thread. No cites have been provided to uphold the claims. In fact there are cites which contradict those claims. Based on that I feel justified in calling those claims fictional.
LOL at "mostly facts".  The damage was done be the bits that weren't facts, I would think, like all the stuff he made up. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 02:13:54 PM
LOL at "mostly facts".  The damage was done be the bits that weren't facts, I would think, like all the stuff he made up.

He had as much right to his opinions as anyone else imo.

No comment on the rest of my post?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 09, 2020, 02:45:48 PM
Can we stick to discussing the case as we perceive it please and desist with the personal comments.

Without diversity of opinion there would be no discussion and debate and a very boring forum.

  *&(+(+

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 09, 2020, 03:50:30 PM
He had as much right to his opinions as anyone else imo.

No comment on the rest of my post?
Since when have opinions been facts?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 09, 2020, 06:10:12 PM
Cite?

You weren’t there, so that’s speculation

But if JAne Tanner wore flip-flops all the more reason she wouldn’t have been heard as she nipped past Gerry talking to a neighbour while he had his back to her.

Had she been swearing stilettos, he possibly would have looked back..but even then not necessarily l

But I was there and at that time of night on that narrow, quiet street it would have been impossible for Tanner to walk by Wilkins and Gerry without being heard, especially with her flip flops slapping against her feet.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 09, 2020, 06:11:36 PM

They’d be better spending their hard-earned cash on seeing a therapist

It isn’t normal to want to spend a HOLIDAY snooping around the places and apartment a little girl was abducted 13 years ago. Do these oddballs go alone? Or drag family members with them? I bet the locals are sickened by these ghouls.

They are obviously deluded too: they claim it’s on the pretext of “investigative reasons”, but have no qualifications; don’t get paid; and despite their sick pilgrimages are still clueless. In fact, more so going by the ludicrous rumours they start!

Have you met Sadie ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on July 09, 2020, 07:21:11 PM
I don't think Mr Payne would describe himself as a dedicated tennis player. Neither do I see any evidence of people wearing specifically tennis clothes.

(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/H/68.jpg)


Great picture!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 09, 2020, 09:43:49 PM
You seem to think that your opinion about Amaral's book is the correct one. Your opinion wasn't shared by everyone you know;

  (Items 27 & 28) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5931.0

Many claims have been made recently on this thread. No cites have been provided to uphold the claims. In fact there are cites which contradict those claims. Based on that I feel justified in calling those claims fictional.

When one takes into consideration the ‘phone dump’ first recommended by Jim Gamble acting in his role as a private investigator for Madeleine’s parents the UK’s most senior child protection police officer when Madeleine vanished, my opinion of Amaral’s botching of the investigation into Madeleine’s case is substantiated.
Present developments amount to a masterclass of how it should have been done back in 2007 … but was not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2020, 10:01:16 PM
When one takes into consideration the ‘phone dump’ first recommended by Jim Gamble acting in his role as a private investigator for Madeleine’s parents, my opinion of Amaral’s botching of the investigation into Madeleine’s case is substantiated.
Present developments amount to a masterclass of how it should have been done back in 2007 … but was not.

Jim Gamble? A PI for the McCanns? Really? I never knew that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 09, 2020, 11:02:17 PM
Jim Gamble? A PI for the McCanns? Really? I never knew that.

Thank you ... neither did I.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 12:13:16 AM
Jim Gamble? A PI for the McCanns? Really? I never knew that.

Jim Gamble, who acted as the senior child protection officer during the UK's initial McCann probe, argues that Portuguese cops did not initially examine the phone data.

He told Daily Star Online:
“The information about what telephone was there at a particular time in connection with another number… was captured, but it had never been properly interrogated.

"So that data hadn't been analysed. They hadn't looked for those things you would expect to see – telephone calls taking place immediately before or immediately after and in close proximity."

In 2010, Gamble published a report into the case – commissioned by then Home Secretary Alan Johnson – which led the Metropolitan Police to re-open their investigation due to failings from Portuguese detectives.

In it, he recommended the “cell dump” – a vast backlog of phone data collected from towers – be examined again.

He added: “I think the Portuguese investigation at the beginning was bungled…it very quickly fell under such a high level of scrutiny and political kind of pressure…they didn't kind of consider all of the hypotheses in the order that they should at the time that they should.

“They lost the golden hour, they lost the early hours in the investigation.

Mr Gamble continued: “Much of the information that was held by the Portuguese…was in boxes.

“And that type of approach makes it very difficult to systematically consider the information that you have and to identify lines of inquiry and to follow those lines of inquiry up. And that was part of that problem.”

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-missed-call-22295432


It seems that from very early on in Amaral's investigation (he tells us in his book right from the morning of the fourth) his obsession with Madeleine's parents caused him to ignore very obvious investigative strategies.

Scotland Yard used it appropriately in 2013 and discovered phone calls made by burglars at the requisite time and in the requisite area requiring investigation.

If the German assessment is correct it seems they were on the right track contrary to sceptic derision.  It is certainly a track which didn't really have to wait until 2013 or 2017;  the information was available to Portuguese investigators in 2007 ~ they just didn't check it.

After Amaral was sacked one of the first tasks his replacement Rebelo had to address was digitising the information lying around in boxes;  the Amaral investigation just wasn't fit for purpose but he was so proud of it ... he wrote a book!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 10, 2020, 03:09:06 AM
Sutton of course sees it totally differently (incidententally this quote contradicts what DaveL claimed about SY / OG questioning the parents.......

https://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2017/05/mark-saunokonoko-uk-police-guilty-of.html

"Sutton also hit out at Scotland Yard claims that the McCanns, who have always denied any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine, had been cleared by Portugal's police force, the Policia Judiciaria (PJ).

Portuguese authorities shelved the investigation in 2008, 14 months after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007, and in doing so lifted arguidos (formal suspect) status from the McCanns.

"The PJ have never cleared anyone," Sutton said.

Ceasing the investigation "just meant they couldn't find enough evidence to proceed against them. Their view is that the parents are certainly not eliminated".

Sutton, who led more than 30 successful murder investigations, said it was well-rehearsed, best police practice in cases such as Madeleine McCann to eliminate those closest to the child first.

"Also any kind of investigation of murder or akin to murder the other place you need to eliminate early on is those that last saw the victim alive.

"In this case you've got essentially the same group of people who are both close to the victim and the last to see her alive. I'd always want to start with that.

"I don't understand why that hasn't been done [by Operation Grange], because it would appear to be in everyone's interest."

Earlier this month, Assistant Commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police Mark Rowley denied Scotland Yard had a closed mind to the possibility of Kate and Gerry McCann’s involvement.

"The involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese," Asst Com Rowley said during a media briefing.

"We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation."

When asked if Kate and Gerry McCann had ever been questioned as potential suspects by Scotland Yard detectives, Asst Com Rowley replied: "No."

Sutton said he disagreed with Asst Com Rowley's assessment. He said inconsistencies in some of Kate and Gerry's statements, Kate's 2011 book madeleine and also some of the witness accounts of the Tapas 7 disturbed him. "
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 10, 2020, 03:12:41 AM


In it, he recommended the “cell dump” – a vast backlog of phone data collected from towers – be examined again.



I hope that includes looking at deleted texts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2020, 03:13:40 AM
What on earth made Sutton think he was going to be offered the job of leading Operation Grange?  He obviously wasn't offered it.

A bit of sour grapes here if you ask me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 10, 2020, 07:13:51 AM
Sutton of course sees it totally differently (incidententally this quote contradicts what DaveL claimed about SY / OG questioning the parents.......

https://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2017/05/mark-saunokonoko-uk-police-guilty-of.html

"Sutton also hit out at Scotland Yard claims that the McCanns, who have always denied any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine, had been cleared by Portugal's police force, the Policia Judiciaria (PJ).

Portuguese authorities shelved the investigation in 2008, 14 months after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007, and in doing so lifted arguidos (formal suspect) status from the McCanns.

"The PJ have never cleared anyone," Sutton said.

Ceasing the investigation "just meant they couldn't find enough evidence to proceed against them. Their view is that the parents are certainly not eliminated".

Sutton, who led more than 30 successful murder investigations, said it was well-rehearsed, best police practice in cases such as Madeleine McCann to eliminate those closest to the child first.

"Also any kind of investigation of murder or akin to murder the other place you need to eliminate early on is those that last saw the victim alive.

"In this case you've got essentially the same group of people who are both close to the victim and the last to see her alive. I'd always want to start with that.

"I don't understand why that hasn't been done [by Operation Grange], because it would appear to be in everyone's interest."

Earlier this month, Assistant Commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police Mark Rowley denied Scotland Yard had a closed mind to the possibility of Kate and Gerry McCann’s involvement.

"The involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese," Asst Com Rowley said during a media briefing.

"We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation."

When asked if Kate and Gerry McCann had ever been questioned as potential suspects by Scotland Yard detectives, Asst Com Rowley replied: "No."

Sutton said he disagreed with Asst Com Rowley's assessment. He said inconsistencies in some of Kate and Gerry's statements, Kate's 2011 book madeleine and also some of the witness accounts of the Tapas 7 disturbed him. "

What’s this particular rent-a-gob saying about the case these days?  I imagine he’s got a lot to say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 07:25:16 AM
Sutton of course sees it totally differently (incidententally this quote contradicts what DaveL claimed about SY / OG questioning the parents.......

https://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2017/05/mark-saunokonoko-uk-police-guilty-of.html

"Sutton also hit out at Scotland Yard claims that the McCanns, who have always denied any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine, had been cleared by Portugal's police force, the Policia Judiciaria (PJ).

Portuguese authorities shelved the investigation in 2008, 14 months after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007, and in doing so lifted arguidos (formal suspect) status from the McCanns.

"The PJ have never cleared anyone," Sutton said.

Ceasing the investigation "just meant they couldn't find enough evidence to proceed against them. Their view is that the parents are certainly not eliminated".

Sutton, who led more than 30 successful murder investigations, said it was well-rehearsed, best police practice in cases such as Madeleine McCann to eliminate those closest to the child first.

"Also any kind of investigation of murder or akin to murder the other place you need to eliminate early on is those that last saw the victim alive.

"In this case you've got essentially the same group of people who are both close to the victim and the last to see her alive. I'd always want to start with that.

"I don't understand why that hasn't been done [by Operation Grange], because it would appear to be in everyone's interest."

Earlier this month, Assistant Commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police Mark Rowley denied Scotland Yard had a closed mind to the possibility of Kate and Gerry McCann’s involvement.

"The involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese," Asst Com Rowley said during a media briefing.

"We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation."

When asked if Kate and Gerry McCann had ever been questioned as potential suspects by Scotland Yard detectives, Asst Com Rowley replied: "No."

Sutton said he disagreed with Asst Com Rowley's assessment. He said inconsistencies in some of Kate and Gerry's statements, Kate's 2011 book madeleine and also some of the witness accounts of the Tapas 7 disturbed him. "


This does not contradict my claim that the McCanns have not been questioned or reinterviewed by grange. rowley says they have not been interviewed as suspects...under caution...not that they haven't been interviewed.

Rowley confirms SY did not have a closed mind to the parents involvement and there is no reaeson to say the Mccanns were off limits if the evidence had pointed towards them. he says they looked at all the evidence before deciding the aprents were not involved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 07:43:50 AM
This does not contradict my claim that the McCanns have not been questioned or reinterviewed by grange. rowley says they have not been interviewed as suspects...under caution...not that they haven't been interviewed.

Rowley confirms SY did not have a closed mind to the parents involvement and there is no reaeson to say the Mccanns were off limits if the evidence had pointed towards them. he says they looked at all the evidence before deciding the aprents were not involved.

You can never get away from the fact....PJ shelved the case as lack of evidence..that doesn't mean no evidence.

The case was shelved as unsolved...you know full well the mcs were not cleared of any involvement how ever you spin your opinions. D
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 08:06:31 AM
You can never get away from the fact....PJ shelved the case as lack of evidence..that doesn't mean no evidence.

The case was shelved as unsolved...you know full well the mcs were not cleared of any involvement how ever you spin your opinions. D

Pedro Da Carmo...do you remember this...No evidence against the mccanns and they are not suspects. They werent cleared because they were never charged with anything. No spin just agood understanding of the facts.

you need to move on...parents not suspects...CB is
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 08:35:54 AM
Pedro Da Carmo...do you remember this...No evidence against the mccanns and they are not suspects. They werent cleared because they were never charged with anything. No spin just agood understanding of the facts.

you need to move on...parents not suspects...CB is

Move on has the abduction been proved then..NO

Yes, that's your interpretation they are not suspects. Mine is they have never been cleared of any involvement.

You can post what you like ..but you can't prove they are completely not involved.


The Supreme Court judges said that lifting their status as formal suspects does not mean that they were innocent.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 08:40:42 AM
Move on has the abduction been proved then..NO

Yes, that's your interpretation they are not suspects. Mine is they have never been cleared of any involvement.

You can post what you like ..but you can't prove they are completely not involved.


The Supreme Court judges said that lifting their status as formal suspects does not mean that they were innocent.

Being found not guilty doesnt mean someones innocent.

You are making yourself look really silly and dont seem to understand the justice system. they dont have to prove their non involvement...thats a stupid idea. do you think they are still suspects.

Why dont you expect Breukner to prove hes innocent and not involved. You and others seem to want to support a proven paedophile and rapist.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 08:53:33 AM
Being found not guilty doesnt mean someones innocent.

You are making yourself look really silly and dont seem to understand the justice system. they dont have to prove their non involvement...thats a stupid idea. do you think they are still suspects.

Why dont you expect Breukner to prove hes innocent and not involved. You and others seem to want to support a proven paedophile and rapist.


You and others seem to want to support a proven paedophile and rapist.


Now that is what you call silly and twisting the fact that its not support its I don't believe Maddie was abducted.

You can't prove she was......In fact, your post seems a bit desperate to me lol.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 09:11:12 AM
Sutton of course sees it totally differently (incidententally this quote contradicts what DaveL claimed about SY / OG questioning the parents.......

https://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2017/05/mark-saunokonoko-uk-police-guilty-of.html

"Sutton also hit out at Scotland Yard claims that the McCanns, who have always denied any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine, had been cleared by Portugal's police force, the Policia Judiciaria (PJ).

Portuguese authorities shelved the investigation in 2008, 14 months after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007, and in doing so lifted arguidos (formal suspect) status from the McCanns.

"The PJ have never cleared anyone," Sutton said.

Ceasing the investigation "just meant they couldn't find enough evidence to proceed against them. Their view is that the parents are certainly not eliminated".

Sutton, who led more than 30 successful murder investigations, said it was well-rehearsed, best police practice in cases such as Madeleine McCann to eliminate those closest to the child first.

"Also any kind of investigation of murder or akin to murder the other place you need to eliminate early on is those that last saw the victim alive.

"In this case you've got essentially the same group of people who are both close to the victim and the last to see her alive. I'd always want to start with that.

"I don't understand why that hasn't been done [by Operation Grange], because it would appear to be in everyone's interest."

Earlier this month, Assistant Commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police Mark Rowley denied Scotland Yard had a closed mind to the possibility of Kate and Gerry McCann’s involvement.

"The involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese," Asst Com Rowley said during a media briefing.

"We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation."

When asked if Kate and Gerry McCann had ever been questioned as potential suspects by Scotland Yard detectives, Asst Com Rowley replied: "No."

Sutton said he disagreed with Asst Com Rowley's assessment. He said inconsistencies in some of Kate and Gerry's statements, Kate's 2011 book madeleine and also some of the witness accounts of the Tapas 7 disturbed him. "


What would Sutton know anything about the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance?  He never worked on it did he?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 10, 2020, 09:23:26 AM
What would Sutton know anything about the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance?  He never worked on it did he?
For such a very opinionated person he seems to have had nothing whatsoever to say on these latest developments, not even the tiniest snipe at Op Grange recently as far as I can see....odd.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 09:28:16 AM
What would Sutton know anything about the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance?  He never worked on it did he?

No, but it's daft to think he wasn't in the loop....or be privy to what others thoughts were on the case. IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 09:32:18 AM
I hope that includes looking at deleted texts.

Amaral didn't manage as co-ordantor of the investigation to follow through on the phone dump organised by the Brits.  Which in retrospect really should not have been too difficult a task using a basic process of elimination such as ... Amaral didn't explain the circumstances in which the police weren't able to contact Brueckner because he wasn't in or why they never followed their visit up.

I think that is probably of far more importance than the victims of a horrendous crime clearing space on their message box to enable further messages to be received ... but even bringing up the nonsense thirteen years after the event leads me to wonder at the myopia of the master being reflected in the comments still being made by his support.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 10, 2020, 09:37:25 AM
Excuse my ignorance folks but at what point in time was GA removed from the investigation and replaced by Mr Rebelo (? Name/spelling?)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 09:55:55 AM
You can never get away from the fact....PJ shelved the case as lack of evidence..that doesn't mean no evidence.

The case was shelved as unsolved...you know full well the mcs were not cleared of any involvement how ever you spin your opinions. D

I suggest the Portuguese were precipitate in writing Madeleine off before all the evidence had been rigorously tested and we know from the volume discovered when her case was reviewed by Scotland Yard in 2010.

A prime example of the evidence ignored by the Judicial police was the phone traffic evidence.
I think that after Amaral found nothing incriminating the McCanns and being refused permission to tap their phones he lost interest in taking the information further.

His huge mistake was in not following the evidence he had but in twisting the 'evidence' he did not have. As far as all the phone traffic on the night of Madeleine's disappearance is concerned I think that may be his greatest mistake.

Heri was able to follow it far enough to be able to identify suspects who fitted the profile ... imagine what he could have achieved if he had had all the information to hand as Amaral did.

The difference being that Heri had an open mind and wanted to solve the case ~ as far as Amaral was concerned he (Amaral) was convinced he already had.
Some hours spent by a telecommunications expert back in 2007 using the evidence already in their hands might well have tole a different story.  I think Amaral must be a very worried man right now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 10:02:05 AM
No, but it's daft to think he wasn't in the loop....or be privy to what others thoughts were on the case. IMO.

I don't think he was 'in the loop'.  Gossip perhaps ~ prejudice perhaps ~ chagrin at not being invited within 'the loop' perhaps.  But at the moment I think he is probably a little red faced about it all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 10:05:52 AM
I suggest the Portuguese were precipitate in writing Madeleine off before all the evidence had been rigorously tested and we know from the volume discovered when her case was reviewed by Scotland Yard in 2010.

A prime example of the evidence ignored by the Judicial police was the phone traffic evidence.
I think that after Amaral found nothing incriminating the McCanns and being refused permission to tap their phones he lost interest in taking the information further.

His huge mistake was in not following the evidence he had but in twisting the 'evidence' he did not have. As far as all the phone traffic on the night of Madeleine's disappearance is concerned I think that may be his greatest mistake.

Heri was able to follow it far enough to be able to identify suspects who fitted the profile ... imagine what he could have achieved if he had had all the information to hand as Amaral did.

The difference being that Heri had an open mind and wanted to solve the case ~ as far as Amaral was concerned he (Amaral) was convinced he already had.
Some hours spent by a telecommunications expert back in 2007 using the evidence already in their hands might well have tole a different story.  I think Amaral must be a very worried man right now.


So going back to what my point was.... it's not there was no evidence seems just not enough


"The archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants.
"There is therefore a significant, and not merely a semantic difference, between the legally admissible foundations of the archive ruling. It doesn't therefore seem acceptable that the ruling, based on the insufficiency of evidence, should be equated to proof of innocence."

"However even the archive ruling raises serious concerns relating to the truth of the allegation that Madeleine was kidnapped."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 10:10:34 AM
I don't think he was 'in the loop'.  Gossip perhaps ~ prejudice perhaps ~ chagrin at not being invited within 'the loop' perhaps.  But at the moment I think he is probably a little red faced about it all.

But at the moment I think he is probably a little red faced about it all.


 I think Amaral must be a very worried man right now.





All based on what seems gossip also.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 10:12:52 AM

So going back to what my point was.... it's not there was no evidence seems just not enough


"The archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants.
"There is therefore a significant, and not merely a semantic difference, between the legally admissible foundations of the archive ruling. It doesn't therefore seem acceptable that the ruling, based on the insufficiency of evidence, should be equated to proof of innocence."

"However even the archive ruling raises serious concerns relating to the truth of the allegation that Madeleine was kidnapped."

The original said no evidence...the SC changed it to not enough. Pedro da Carmo ...when head of the PJ said not enough.

I hope if CB isn't charged you are insistant it's because not enough evidence and he hasn't been cleared...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 10:13:57 AM
But at the moment I think he is probably a little red faced about it all.


 I think Amaral must be a very worried man right now.





All based on what seems gossip also.
It depends what strong evidence the Germans hsve
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 10, 2020, 10:15:48 AM
It depends what strong evidence the Germans hsve

Evidence so incredibly strong that it isn't enough to charge, convict or even begin questioning the suspect over.

That kind of strong evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 10, 2020, 10:16:17 AM
I suggest the Portuguese were precipitate in writing Madeleine off before all the evidence had been rigorously tested and we know from the volume discovered when her case was reviewed by Scotland Yard in 2010.

A prime example of the evidence ignored by the Judicial police was the phone traffic evidence.
I think that after Amaral found nothing incriminating the McCanns and being refused permission to tap their phones he lost interest in taking the information further.

His huge mistake was in not following the evidence he had but in twisting the 'evidence' he did not have. As far as all the phone traffic on the night of Madeleine's disappearance is concerned I think that may be his greatest mistake.

Heri was able to follow it far enough to be able to identify suspects who fitted the profile ... imagine what he could have achieved if he had had all the information to hand as Amaral did.

The difference being that Heri had an open mind and wanted to solve the case ~ as far as Amaral was concerned he (Amaral) was convinced he already had.
Some hours spent by a telecommunications expert back in 2007 using the evidence already in their hands might well have tole a different story.  I think Amaral must be a very worried man right now.

But the phone data was captured so nothing has prevented others re-examining?  Indeed even 13 years on investigators have highlighted two tel numbers which are the subject of a current appeal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 10:17:16 AM

So going back to what my point was.... it's not there was no evidence seems just not enough


"The archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants.
"There is therefore a significant, and not merely a semantic difference, between the legally admissible foundations of the archive ruling. It doesn't therefore seem acceptable that the ruling, based on the insufficiency of evidence, should be equated to proof of innocence."

"However even the archive ruling raises serious concerns relating to the truth of the allegation that Madeleine was kidnapped."

And my point is that there was an abundance of evidence which was not fully investigated at the time ... all of which pointed away from parental involvement.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 10:17:50 AM
It depends what strong evidence the Germans hsve


That's not an answer its just your shot in the dark.

My shot is it could be your HCW....who is in the firing line lol
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 10:20:42 AM
But the phone data was captured so nothing has prevented others re-examining?  Indeed even 13 years on investigators have highlighted two tel numbers which are the subject of a current appeal.

Check one of Gunit's posts (I think) where she pointed out Heri was not allowed access.  So unless part of an official police investigation access is not as easy as you seem to think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 10:22:33 AM
And my point is that there was an abundance of evidence which was not fully investigated at the time ... all of which pointed away from parental involvement.

 the archive ruling raises serious concerns relating to the truth of the allegation that Madeleine was kidnapped.

It didn't point away, in my opinion, there was just too much interference from the UK
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 10:28:48 AM
the archive ruling raises serious concerns relating to the truth of the allegation that Madeleine was kidnapped.

It didn't point away, in my opinion, there was just too much interference from the UK

In my opinion the archiving of Madeleine's case has proved a huge embarrassment for Portugal and as time and events move on that embarrassment can only be intensified.

Is there another jurisdiction in the civilised world which would write off a missing child appx eighteen months after her disappearance?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 10, 2020, 10:36:49 AM
I don't think they are embarrassed at all.
They determined who was responsible, decided they couldn't prove anything one way or another, so closed the case and moved on.


IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 10, 2020, 10:39:55 AM
Check one of Gunit's posts (I think) where she pointed out Heri was not allowed access.  So unless part of an official police investigation access is not as easy as you seem to think.

But Heri wasn't/isn't an official investigator.  Officialdom has always had access to all the phone traffic as it was captured in the early days.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 10:41:19 AM
In my opinion the archiving of Madeleine's case has proved a huge embarrassment for Portugal and as time and events move on that embarrassment can only be intensified.

Is there another jurisdiction in the civilised world which would write off a missing child appx eighteen months after her disappearance?


IMO they didn't write it off ...because of the interference by the UK they couldn't take it any further it seems.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 10, 2020, 10:44:55 AM

IMO they didn't write it off ...because of the interference by the UK they couldn't take it any further it seems.

The sting in the tail was that they put  their investigative work on line so that the world could see what they had done and draw their own conclusions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2020, 10:50:38 AM
In my opinion the archiving of Madeleine's case has proved a huge embarrassment for Portugal and as time and events move on that embarrassment can only be intensified.

Is there another jurisdiction in the civilised world which would write off a missing child appx eighteen months after her disappearance?

I don't think the archiving of the process equated to writing off a missing child. All unsolved police investigations reach a point where there are no active diligences being performed. Portugal formally announces when that point has been reached, the UK doesn't. Despite the different approaches, both police forces will respond to new evidence if and when it arises.

I'm sure the PJ know that most of the criticism was part of a campaign designed to convince people that they were incompetent, and they have responded with dignity in my opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2020, 10:56:38 AM
I don't think the archiving of the process equated to writing off a missing child. All unsolved police investigations reach a point where there are no active diligences being performed. Portugal formally announces when that point has been reached, the UK doesn't. Despite the different approaches, both police forces will respond to new evidence if and when it arises.

I'm sure the PJ know that most of the criticism was part of a campaign designed to convince people that they were incompetent, and they have responded with dignity in my opinion.

The PJ were incompetent.  I don't think there is much doubt about that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 10, 2020, 11:01:15 AM
The PJ were incompetent.  I don't think there is much doubt about that.

To be frank, I don't think most people are interested.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2020, 11:03:26 AM
To be frank, I don't think most people are interested.

I think you are right.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2020, 11:10:18 AM
The PJ were incompetent.  I don't think there is much doubt about that.

That is a matter of opinion. In your opinion they were incompetent, in mine they weren't. They missed some opportunities imo, but all police forces do that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 11:14:56 AM
That is a matter of opinion. In your opinion they were incompetent, in mine they weren't. They missed some opportunities imo, but all police forces do that.
I think again you are denial
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2020, 11:15:14 AM
That is a matter of opinion. In your opinion they were incompetent, in mine they weren't. They missed some opportunities imo, but all police forces do that.

You could say that.  Missing a rampant Paedophile, Burglar and Rapist running around The Algarve was indeed a missed opportunity.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 11:20:12 AM
But Heri wasn't/isn't an official investigator.  Officialdom has always had access to all the phone traffic as it was captured in the early days.

I said ... Heri was able to follow it far enough to be able to identify suspects who fitted the profile ... imagine what he could have achieved if he had had all the information to hand as Amaral did.

You said ... But the phone data was captured so nothing has prevented others re-examining? 

To which I said ... Check one of Gunit's posts (I think) where she pointed out Heri was not allowed access.  So unless part of an official police investigation access is not as easy as you seem to think.
_________________________________________________________________


So what is it that you are missing from the theme of my posts that Amaral had access and the Portuguese continued to have the same access that Scotland Yard had to allow them to open Madeleine's case.

Which also allowed them to question suspects in 2014 and which allowed Brueckner to attract the the Germans' attention in 2017.

Please don't word play with me ... I don't appreciate it and it is unnecessary to repeat what has already been clearly intimated in my posts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 10, 2020, 11:27:09 AM
My, my.

https://news.sky.com/story/assault-burglary-and-animal-cruelty-police-officers-convicted-of-crimes-working-for-uk-forces-12024264


More than 200 serving police officers in the UK have convictions for criminal offences including assault, burglary, drug possession and animal cruelty, Sky News can reveal.

Forces across the country employ at least 211 police officers and PCSOs who were guilty of crimes, according to data released under the Freedom of Information Act.

The actual number is likely to be much higher, however, after just a third of forces revealed how many of their officers have criminal convictions, with many claiming it would cost too much to retrieve the information.

The National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC) told Sky News that having a criminal record has "never been an automatic bar to joining the police" and insisted officers are vetted "throughout their service".

But Steven Smith, who was assaulted in Bristol by an officer who was allowed to keep his job, said he believes anyone with a conviction for violence should be banned from working for the police.

Steven Smith was assaulted in Bristol by a police officer who kept his job
He told Sky News: "Obviously everyone makes mistakes but when it's a violent assault, I don't believe they should (be able to work for the police).


"You'd expect police men and women to have no convictions."

Mr Smith, 45, said he was "gutted and upset" to learn that the officer who was convicted of assaulting him in 2014 continued working for Avon and Somerset Police.

"You should be able to go to the police and their judgement should be above board and impeccable at all times," he added.

Integrity in policing has been under the spotlight in recent weeks following widespread protests over the killing of George Floyd while in police custody in the US.

Just a third of forces revealed how many of their officers have criminal convictions
Among the UK forces to reveal how many of their serving police officers have criminal convictions:

The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) said 99 serving officers had received criminal convictions while employed by the force. The offences included death by careless driving, common assault, harassment and possession of a firearm/drunk in charge of a firearm
North Wales Police said 20 police officers and five PCSOs have criminal convictions, including a sergeant convicted of assault, two officers guilty of drug possession and two officers convicted of cruelty to animals
Kent Police said 22 serving officers have been convicted of crimes, including five officers ranked "inspector or above". The offences included common assault, criminal damage and drink driving
Fourteen Avon and Somerset Police officers have convictions for crimes such as assault, burglary, theft and obtaining money by deception
Seven Dorset Police officers have criminal convictions including a constable convicted of burglary and ABH, and a constable guilty of causing unnecessary cruelty to a protected animal
Devon and Cornwall Police said nine serving police constables have convictions for crimes including drink driving and Data Protection Act offences
Norfolk Police said three officers have criminal convictions including a constable guilty of battery and another constable convicted of possessing an imitation firearm in a public place
Cheshire Police said 18 serving police officers or PCSOs have been convicted of crimes but refused to reveal any further details, saying it would breach the Data Protection Act
It comes after Sky News submitted freedom of information requests to the UK's 45 territorial police forces as well as British Transport Police and the Ministry of Defence Police.

Just 16 forces revealed how many of their officers had criminal convictions, with the Metropolitan Police, Police Scotland, Greater Manchester Police and Merseyside Police among those that did not provide the information.

Several forces said retrieving their records on police officers with criminal convictions would exceed the cost limit set out by the Freedom of Information Act.

Thames Valley Police said it would be a "disproportionate and unjustified diversion of policing resources" during the coronavirus epidemic.

Meanwhile, Nottinghamshire Police said the request for the information was "vexatious" - meaning it intends to cause annoyance, frustration or worry.

 Police fired Tasers at children as young as 13 and dozens of dogs in three years   
Police fired Tasers at children as young as 13 and dozens of dogs in three years
Home Office guidelines state that police forces "should not recruit people with cautions or convictions, which may call into question the integrity of the applicant or the service".

But the guidance states that "each case should be dealt with on its individual merits".

Chief Constable Craig Guildford, the NPCC's lead for professional standards, told Sky News that "having a criminal record has never been an automatic bar to joining the police or many other public sector professions".

He added: "Applicants must declare their convictions and every case is assessed and considered by vetting departments using national guidance.

"We review what someone was convicted of, the sentence they received, how old they were at the time, what the circumstances were and how long ago it was. We also re-vet officers throughout their service and have higher levels of vetting for particular posts.

"The vast majority of police officers and staff fulfil their duties in serving the public to the highest standard.

"Society rightly expects the police service to act with honesty and integrity and any instance of conduct falling below that standard, or when a crime has been committed, will be dealt with directly based upon the evidence presented as nobody is above the law."

A Home Office spokeswoman said: "There are around 125,000 police officers in England and Wales, the overall majority of whom carry out their duties with the utmost professionalism and integrity and are committed to keeping the public safe.

"Forces are required to adhere to a stringent vetting code when recruiting and we have introduced reforms to strengthen the disciplinary system and ensure that the small minority of individuals who fall short of the high standards their peers and the public expect of them are held fully accountable."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 11:31:58 AM

IMO they didn't write it off ...because of the interference by the UK they couldn't take it any further it seems.

What did the United Kingdom do to them ... threaten to send a gunboat? 

The suggestion of interference is more risible now than when it first emanated from Amaral's lexicon of conspiracy theories.



MI5 AGENTS know what happened to missing Madeleine McCann but are covering it up, claims former Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/485524/Portuguese-detective-says-MI5-spies-know-what-happened-to-Madeleine-McCann
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2020, 11:35:16 AM
I think again you are denial

I think you are. (in denial)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 11:37:55 AM
The sting in the tail was that they put  their investigative work on line so that the world could see what they had done and draw their own conclusions.

In my opinion your post is nonsense and illustrates yet another point illustrating the total failure of their vaunted system.

Or is it your suggestion that the release of the CDs into unscrupulous hands was intentional?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 10, 2020, 11:41:19 AM
In my opinion your post is nonsense and illustrates yet another point illustrating the total failure of their vaunted system.

Or is it your suggestion that the release of the CDs into unscrupulous hands was intentional?

In my opinion, all your suggestions are ridiculous, but as I ignore most of your more lengthy posts, I can live with that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 11:43:40 AM
In my opinion your post is nonsense and illustrates yet another point illustrating the total failure of their vaunted system.

Or is it your suggestion that the release of the CDs into unscrupulous hands was intentional?


Why does it always have to be nonsense ...just because it doesn't fit in with your agenda?

Its only your opinion it is nonsense ... it's not as if you can actually prove it is
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 11:49:16 AM
I think you are. (in denial)

I think we may shortly see who is in denial.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 11:51:59 AM
In my opinion, all your suggestions are ridiculous, but as I ignore most of your more lengthy posts, I can live with that.

I don't really make many suggestions in my posts and I really don't need to when Amaral is the subject of discussion as one doesn't have to search too far at all to find it mostly straight from his own mouth.

Currently two things intrigue me.  The first being why Amaral ensured the release of information about Brueckner into the public domain?
The second is why did Amaral say that the Portuguese police had visited Brueckner?  Must have had his reasons in both instances ... I wonder what they were?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 10, 2020, 11:56:04 AM

Why does it always have to be nonsense ...just because it doesn't fit in with your agenda?

Its only your opinion it is nonsense ... it's not as if you can actually prove it is

Regarding Amaral ... I don't need to have an opinion ... his various court appearances and criminal conviction say much of it for me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 10, 2020, 12:18:17 PM
What’s this particular rent-a-gob saying about the case these days?  I imagine he’s got a lot to say.


Well, this is what Sutton was saying in 2017 -     


28/04/2017 · The case, which remains ... Former Met Police detective Colin Sutton believed the girl may have taken by gangs from Mauritania, before being smuggled into West Africa to be sold to a Middle ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2020, 01:37:17 PM
What’s this particular rent-a-gob saying about the case these days?  I imagine he’s got a lot to say.

The ultimate rent-a-gob was Mitchell, imo, it was his actual job.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2020, 05:13:31 PM
The ultimate rent-a-gob was Mitchell, imo, it was his actual job.

Only in your opinion.  This was not a stupid man.  And if you think that he is then only you are stupid.

You might think that you are a bit bright and you quite possibly are, but you lack Logic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 10, 2020, 05:24:32 PM
The ultimate rent-a-gob was Mitchell, imo, it was his actual job.

Is your post a diversion from mine?   I posted that Sutton the person who wanted OG to question the McCann's [as they should eliminate them from the investigation]   thought in 2017 that Madeleine was taken by traffickers.  So some should stop thinking that Sutton believes the McCann's had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance because he doesn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 10, 2020, 05:30:10 PM
Evidence so incredibly strong that it isn't enough to charge, convict or even begin questioning the suspect over.

That kind of strong evidence.
But strong enough for HCW to put his career on the line over and have the German police potentially sued for libel apparently.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 10, 2020, 05:31:05 PM
I don't think they are embarrassed at all.
They closed the case and moved on.


IMO
I thought this was an ongoing investigation in Portugal?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 10, 2020, 05:33:39 PM
The ultimate rent-a-gob was Mitchell, imo, it was his actual job.
So what?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 10, 2020, 05:40:38 PM
I thought this was an ongoing investigation in Portugal?


Maybe , maybe not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 10, 2020, 05:41:58 PM

Maybe , maybe not.
Oh?  And yet you seemed so sure of yourself earlier!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 10, 2020, 06:01:49 PM
Oh?  And yet you seemed so sure of yourself earlier!

What about ? I have a short attention span.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 10, 2020, 06:11:17 PM
Please keep the discussion civil.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on July 10, 2020, 06:21:26 PM

IMO they didn't write it off ...because of the interference by the UK they couldn't take it any further it seems.

I think you have a very good point, the Portuguese sent several requests to the UK for information and background reports concerning the parents but were denied them. What does that tell you because it certainly leaves me with the distinct impression that this case has been thwarted by the UK authorities from the get-go.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 06:24:14 PM
I think you have a very good point, the Portuguese sent several requests to the UK for information and background reports concerning the parents but were denied them. What does that tell you because it certainly leaves me with the distinct impression that this case has been thwarted by the UK authorities from get go.

They were denied things because in the UK it needs a court order to release these things and a court order requires evidence. I think the UK authorities tried to help but the PJ didnt want it...remember the dogs came from the UK...how can that not be trying to help
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 10, 2020, 06:26:16 PM
I think you have a very good point, the Portuguese sent several requests to the UK for information and background reports concerning the parents but were denied them. What does that tell you because it certainly leaves me with the distinct impression that this case has been thwarted by the UK authorities from the get-go.


IIRC one of those requests was regarding Maddies health ..or if she suffered from heart problems I think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on July 10, 2020, 06:28:04 PM
They were denied things because in the UK it needs a court order to release these things and a court order requires evidence. I think the UK authorities tried to help but the PJ didnt want it...remember the dogs came from the UK...how can that not be trying to help

The police don't need a court order to investigate a crime.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 06:38:43 PM
The police don't need a court order to investigate a crime.

they need a court order to get credit card details......medical records
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 10, 2020, 06:39:44 PM
What about ? I have a short attention span.
You know what that’s a sign of don’t you...?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 10, 2020, 06:41:23 PM
You know what that’s a sign of don’t you...?
No, I've forgotten.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on July 10, 2020, 06:42:23 PM
they need a court order to get credit card details......medical records

All they need is a bench warrant.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2020, 06:42:53 PM
I think you have a very good point, the Portuguese sent several requests to the UK for information and background reports concerning the parents but were denied them. What does that tell you because it certainly leaves me with the distinct impression that this case has been thwarted by the UK authorities from the get-go.

I really don't believe you sometimes.  You have better access to information than the rest of us?  Probably not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 06:45:52 PM
All they need is a bench warrant.
They have to apply to a judge...I've just been through the process...and the judge requires evidence to support the application
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 06:49:41 PM
I think you have a very good point, the Portuguese sent several requests to the UK for information and background reports concerning the parents but were denied them. What does that tell you because it certainly leaves me with the distinct impression that this case has been thwarted by the UK authorities from the get-go.

I think it's been thwarted by the Portuguese from the word go
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2020, 06:56:28 PM
I think it's been thwarted by the Portuguese from the word go

You only "Think."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 07:15:33 PM
All they need is a bench warrant.

The specific law which deals with PRODUCTION OF BANK STATEMENTS is s.345 POCA 2002. This enables a police constable to apply for a court order to obtain bank statements and correspondence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 07:24:22 PM
medical records...

In this case the GP contacted the Medical Defence Union. The case
was listed in order to discharge the order on the basis that medical
records were excluded material under section 11 of the Police and
Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (“PACE”) and the access conditions for
the production of excluded material under Schedule 1 paragraph 3 of
PACE were not met.
In the event the CPS agreed with the submission and the order was
discharged. It transpired at the hearing that orders such as this were
being made frequently. GPs following the GMC’s Confidentiality
Guidance may not appreciate that an order under PACE requiring the
production of medical records is itself unlawful.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on July 10, 2020, 07:34:09 PM
They have to apply to a judge...I've just been through the process...and the judge requires evidence to support the application

Just a formality Dave, they are seldom refused.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2020, 07:35:32 PM
Just a formality Dave.

That isn't what the police told me... evidence is needed..certainly medical records are not a formality.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2020, 07:40:53 PM
Just a formality Dave, they are seldom refused.

Are they ever?  And if so, for why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 10, 2020, 08:01:03 PM
I think you have a very good point, the Portuguese sent several requests to the UK for information and background reports concerning the parents but were denied them. What does that tell you because it certainly leaves me with the distinct impression that this case has been thwarted by the UK authorities from the get-go.

Not sure what you're referring to, John.

The requests made and answers received are here:
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MCCANNS_BACKGROUND.htm

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FRANCES_KENNAH.htm

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2020, 08:20:06 PM
Not sure what you're referring to, John.

The requests made and answers received are here:
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MCCANNS_BACKGROUND.htm

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FRANCES_KENNAH.htm

John is a Scot, or perhaps Irish, or a bit of both.  We are a peculiar bunch and sometimes our loyalties are a bit at abeyance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on July 13, 2020, 12:11:03 PM

Jane Tanner was actually checking up on HER children: that was verified.

As it was with Gerry.

As it was with the neighbour.

You seem to forget it was dark; Jane was wearing rubber flip-flops; and why in earth would she have called out to Gerry for no reason whatsoever? Why would the neighbour have noticed her when he was looking at Gerry and talking to him?

Why would the neighbour notice a man walking along carrying a child? Gerry didn’t notice a man, either...and that would have been a good excuse for him if he “suddenly remembered” such a sighting?

And WTF would Jane make such a sighting up?

And tell me HOW one year later (May have been less) that very man JT saw cane forward?! He SAID categorically it was HIM carrying his daughter back from night crèche. His statement was checked out and corroborated by the crèche staff and his wife. And people on here are saying it didn’t happen...

This event has always puzzled me and even more so when I saw Ch4's attempt at a reconstruction when Jane Tanner and Gerry McCann publicly disputed each others version of events to such an extent that Tanner burst out crying.

The mechanics of what occurred have been gone over several times.  Gerry McCann claims he crossed the road to speak to Jez Wilkins while he in turn claimed that it was he who crossed the road after seeing Gerry walking down the footpath outside 5a. Neither men saw Jane Tanner who passed a matter of feet from them and in full vision of Wilkins who says he was stood at the kerb holding his child's buggy.  Tanner claims that Gerry was stood on the footpath with his back to her while Wilkins was facing both Gerry and herself. (See pics below)

Work that out if you can?  Who if anyone is mistaken, lying, blind or simply confused?  Take your pick!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 12:16:52 PM
This event has always puzzled me and even more so when I saw the Ch4's attempt at a reconstruction when Jane Tanner and Gerry McCann publicly disputed each others version of events to such an extent that Tanner burst out crying.

This mechanics of what occurred have been gone over several times.  Gerry McCann claims he crossed the road to speak to Jez Wilkins while he in turn claimed that it was he who crossed the road after seeing Gerry walking down the footpath outside 5a. Neither men saw Jane Tanner who passed a matter of feet from them and in full vision of Wilkins who says he was stood at the kerb holding  his child's buggy.  Tanner claims that Gerry was stood on the footpath with his back to her while Wilkins was facing both Gerry and herself.  Work that out if you can?

it just goes to show how poor peoples  recollection of events may be
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 12:24:45 PM
it just goes to show how poor peoples  recollection of events may be

Or not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 12:39:39 PM
it just goes to show how poor peoples  recollection of events may be

Or seems maybe non-events.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 12:53:06 PM
it just goes to show how poor peoples  recollection of events may be

Which means that their evidence has no more evidential reliability than anyone else's.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 12:56:43 PM
Which means that their evidence has no more evidential reliability than anyone else's.

All witness statements will be affected by recall...its up to the police to decide waht they think is significant. As the McCanns are not suspects its clear the discrepancy is not thought to be significant
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on July 13, 2020, 01:22:53 PM
I have added the original pics to my post which newer members might find helpful.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg609031#msg609031
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 01:24:42 PM
This event has always puzzled me and even more so when I saw Ch4's attempt at a reconstruction when Jane Tanner and Gerry McCann publicly disputed each others version of events to such an extent that Tanner burst out crying.

The mechanics of what occurred have been gone over several times.  Gerry McCann claims he crossed the road to speak to Jez Wilkins while he in turn claimed that it was he who crossed the road after seeing Gerry walking down the footpath outside 5a. Neither men saw Jane Tanner who passed a matter of feet from them and in full vision of Wilkins who says he was stood at the kerb holding his child's buggy.  Tanner claims that Gerry was stood on the footpath with his back to her while Wilkins was facing both Gerry and herself. (See pics below)

Work that out if you can?  Who if anyone is mistaken, lying, blind or simply confused?  Take your pick!

what these photos do show is they do not have sight of the front door ...the window and the small car park
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 01:31:42 PM
All witness statements will be affected by recall...its up to the police to decide waht they think is significant. As the McCanns are not suspects its clear the discrepancy is not thought to be significant

The police who investigated in 2007 thought it was of interest.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
The police who investigated in 2007 thought it was of interest.

Do you mean the bungled first investiagtion led by amaral
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 01:42:17 PM
Do you mean the bungled first investiagtion led by amaral

No. In my opinion there is no investigation better or worse than any other.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 13, 2020, 01:46:23 PM
what these photos do show is they do not have sight of the front door ...the window and the small car park

Or JT walking past seeing open shutters and whooshing curtains as the 'abductor' hurried away. Who looks NOTHING like CB according to JTs identity.

So which story do we believe. JT or GERRY?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on July 13, 2020, 02:53:17 PM
Or JT walking past seeing open shutters and whooshing curtains as the 'abductor' hurried away. Who looks NOTHING like CB according to JTs identity.

So which story do we believe. JT or GERRY?

Amaral claimed that Tanner saw the two men chatting just down from the entrance to 5a but that she turned left along the footpath and so didn't actually pass the men thus why neither men noticed her. He also suggested that she saw Totman walking with his daughter in his arms from an upstairs position in block 5 and not from the path which runs past 5a.  But why the confusion?

All very curious imo?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 03:02:10 PM
Do you mean the bungled first investiagtion led by amaral


We will never know will we because they got rid of him the first opportunity.

#The mccs hate him yet forgive abductor i believe.

At least he stood up to the mccs... He had no fear to speak and is still standing up to them now.



https://www.portugalresident.com/pj-police-search-three-wells-in-vila-do-bispo-as-new-revelations-continue-to-focus-on-jailed-pedophile/

PJ police search three wells in Vila do Bispo as new ‘revelations’ continue to focus on jailed pedophile

By
 Natasha Donn
 -
12th July 2020
.
Brückner meantime remains in jail, allegedly saying he had nothing to do with any of it (click here).
Gonçalo Amaral, the former PJ coordinator who led the initial investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, has reiterated his belief that Brückner is being used as a convenient scapegoat (click here).
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com




Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 13, 2020, 03:03:59 PM
Amaral claimed that Tanner saw the two men chatting just down from the entrance to 5a but that she turned left along the footpath and so didn't actually pass the men thus why neither men noticed her. He also suggested that she saw Totman walking with his daughter in his arms from an upstairs position in block 5 and not from the path which runs past 5a.  But why the confusion?

All very curious imo?


yes, too many inaccuracies never challenged properly= no justice for Madeleine. so far
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 03:05:53 PM

We will never know will we because they got rid of him the first opportunity.

#The mccs hate him yet forgive abductor i believe.

At least he stood up to the mccs... He had no fear to speak and is still standing up to them now.



https://www.portugalresident.com/pj-police-search-three-wells-in-vila-do-bispo-as-new-revelations-continue-to-focus-on-jailed-pedophile/

PJ police search three wells in Vila do Bispo as new ‘revelations’ continue to focus on jailed pedophile

By
 Natasha Donn
 -
12th July 2020
.
Brückner meantime remains in jail, allegedly saying he had nothing to do with any of it (click here).
Gonçalo Amaral, the former PJ coordinator who led the initial investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, has reiterated his belief that Brückner is being used as a convenient scapegoat (click here).
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com


Ive asked you before...wht should the Germans want to supply a scapegaot..........its total nonsense and par for the course from amaral
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 03:07:55 PM
No. In my opinion there is no investigation better or worse than any other.

I think its quite possible you will shortly be proven wrong...if you are...What does that say for Amaral...What does that say for Grime and his dogs
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 03:13:14 PM
Ive asked you before...wht should the Germans want to supply a scapegaot..........its total nonsense and par for the course from amaral

He initially said SY were interested in a scapegoat. Perhaps they involved the Germans?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 03:19:26 PM
The Germans want to prosecute Brueckner and lock him up for as long as possible.
They don't really care what for, so if he becomes a scapegoat in the McCann case, so be it.

IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 03:20:17 PM
He initially said SY were interested in a scapegoat. Perhaps they involved the Germans?

So you are now suggesting SY have persuaded the Germans to produce a scapegaot. So you are suggesting two national police forces are lying...LOL...that is desperate denail imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 03:21:49 PM
The Germans want to prosecute Brueckner and lock him up for as long as possible.
They don't really care what for, so if he becomes a scapegoat in the McCann case, so be it.

IMO

Wont that involve  a court case with evidence for all to see...or will sceptics claim the evidence has been falsified;.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 03:27:07 PM
So you are now suggesting SY have persuaded the Germans to produce a scapegaot. So you are suggesting two national police forces are lying...LOL...that is desperate denail imo

Lying? Not at all. Wasn't it SY who had the first information that CB was of interest? In 2017?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 13, 2020, 03:29:06 PM
The Germans want to prosecute Brueckner and lock him up for as long as possible.
They don't really care what for, so if he becomes a scapegoat in the McCann case, so be it.

IMO

Spot on

why else would the germans be interested in solving the Maddie case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 13, 2020, 03:29:12 PM
Wont that involve  a court case with evidence for all to see...or will sceptics claim the evidence has been falsified;.

Considering the evidence is both fundamental & concrete & there's also a mountain of it, it would be pretty hard to deny that he dunnit, if he ever faces trial, which he won't, because he didn't do it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 03:38:33 PM
Considering the evidence is both fundamental & concrete & there's also a mountain of it, it would be pretty hard to deny that he dunnit, if he ever faces trial, which he won't, because he didn't do it.

Hopefully they now have more than a belief that CB was using a certain mobile phone that evening and an assumption that Madeleine is dead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 13, 2020, 04:53:17 PM
Hopefully they now have more than a belief that CB was using a certain mobile phone that evening and an assumption that Madeleine is dead.
I hope so too (but my hope is sincere, whereas yours....)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 13, 2020, 06:54:02 PM
So you are now suggesting SY have persuaded the Germans to produce a scapegaot. So you are suggesting two national police forces are lying...LOL...that is desperate denail imo

The Germans got the van wrong. Amaral showed what it really looked like. A mistake?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 07:05:23 PM
The Germans got the van wrong. Amaral showed what it really looked like. A mistake?
No, they didn't.  The van was most likely resprayed or metal polished by the dealer who bought it to remove Brueckner's kiddy-magnet graffiti  before it was sold on.  Just a slimey underhand Amaral tactic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 13, 2020, 07:12:05 PM
What did the van look like in 2007?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 07:14:17 PM
No, they didn't.  The van was most likely resprayed or metal polished by the dealer who bought it to remove Brueckner's kiddy-magnet graffiti  before it was sold on.  Just a slimey underhand Amaral tactic.

Anything to support that, or just your opinion ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 07:15:22 PM
What did the van look like in 2007?
Bottom photo according to Amaral.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 07:18:01 PM
Anything to support that, or just your opinion ?
It's quite obvious that if the van was going to be resold then that appalling scrawl would have to be removed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 07:19:28 PM
It's quite obvious that if the van was going to be resold then that appalling scrawl would have to be removed.

So you accept that the 'appalling scrawl' was there prior to sale. What was the sale date ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 07:23:45 PM
It's quite obvious that if the van was going to be resold then that appalling scrawl would have to be removed.

If you want the public to identify a van surely if you have a photograph of the van as it was at the time of the incident that’s what you should use ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 07:29:02 PM
So you accept that the 'appalling scrawl' was there prior to sale. What was the sale date ?
Brueckner sold it to his German scrapyard friend in 2015 and the German police seized it from him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on July 13, 2020, 07:31:25 PM
Brueckner sold it to his German scrapyard friend in 2015 and the German police seized it from him.
And that person would be, Bernhard Piro.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 07:32:40 PM
If you want the public to identify a van surely if you have a photograph of the van as it was at the time of the incident that’s what you should use ?
The Germans probably had no original photographs of the van as it was in 2007, because they weren't privy to Portuguese files.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 07:33:00 PM
And that person would be, Bernhard Piro.
Yes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
The Germans probably had no original photographs of the van as it was in 2007, because they weren't privy to Portuguese files.

So why criticise Amaral for showing the van as it was ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 07:40:10 PM
So why criticise Amaral for showing the van as it was ?
Because the attention-seeker wanted to rubbish the German investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 07:41:20 PM
Because the attention-seeker wanted to rubbish the German investigation.

By showing the real condition of the van in 2007 ? What a b*stard  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 07:42:01 PM
The Germans probably had no original photographs of the van as it was in 2007, because they weren't privy to Portuguese files.

The British police did. Don’t you think that they liaised with the German police before making public the photos of the van ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 13, 2020, 07:47:17 PM
Bottom photo according to Amaral.

So why didn't the Germans release the same photos? They only had to ask the PJ if they had images of his van from 2007? It was intended for witnesses to a crime that happened in 2007 and it would be easier for anybody to remember a van with distinctive images all over it. That is nonsense police work by the Germans and therefore suspicious.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 07:51:39 PM
The British police did. Don’t you think that they liaised with the German police before making public the photos of the van ?
No, not really.  We don't know what access, if any, OG had to Brueckner's Portuguese files.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 13, 2020, 08:00:00 PM
No, not really.  We don't know what access, if any, OG had to Brueckner's Portuguese files.

I don’t think even you believe that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on July 13, 2020, 08:04:34 PM
Because the attention-seeker wanted to rubbish the German investigation.
Brückner could have sold the camper van, upon which the Minion-style figures were removed by its new owner.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 13, 2020, 08:06:31 PM
No, not really.  We don't know what access, if any, OG had to Brueckner's Portuguese files.

So if Amaral was able to produce this photograph from the 2007 PJ files the question about why it wasn't publicised by the Brits or the Germans just doesn't arise.
The question is ... why weren't the Portuguese Judicial Police circulating it?

Could it possibly be because the owner was called Brueckner and not McCann?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 08:19:13 PM
Brückner could have sold the camper van, upon which the Minion-style figures were removed by its new owner.
Or even erased them himself after his close brush with the PJ in 2006 for the fuel theft and his admission to a judge about his paedophile past which was never forwarded to the police.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 08:27:25 PM
Or even erased them himself after his close brush with the PJ in 2006 for the fuel theft and his admission to a judge about his paedophile past which was never forwarded to the police.

Why would he want to do that and when?

He was using a blue Bedford van when apprehended for the fuel theft and then in prison until early 2007
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 08:36:22 PM
Why would he want to do that and when?

He was using a blue Bedford van when apprehended for the fuel theft and then in prison until early 2007
As a car enthusiast/mechanic, Brueckner might have owned both in 2006 and as a lifelong paedophile didn't want to attract the attention of the PJ more than he had already.  The Bedford was destroyed because it drew no buyers to pay off his fine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 08:36:44 PM
So if Amaral was able to produce this photograph from the 2007 PJ files the question about why it wasn't publicised by the Brits or the Germans just doesn't arise.
The question is ... why weren't the Portuguese Judicial Police circulating it?

Could it possibly be because the owner was called Brueckner and not McCann?

Probably not
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 13, 2020, 08:48:11 PM
As a car enthusiast/mechanic, Brueckner might have owned both in 2006 and as a lifelong paedophile didn't want to attract the attention of the PJ more than he had already.  The Bedford was destroyed because it drew no buyers to pay off his fine.

I think your argument is rather weak as early you were claiming that the person he sold it to did the removal.
Obviously all in vain as police possessed photos of the van.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 09:01:02 PM
I think your argument is rather weak as early you were claiming that the person he sold it to did the removal.
Obviously all in vain as police possessed photos of the van.
The PJ had photos of the graffitied van, but how do you know the Germans did?

There's nothing wrong with keeping your options open, unlike some McCann accusers on here who've had one-track minds since 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 09:07:49 PM
The PJ had photos of the graffitied van, but how do you know the Germans did?

There's nothing wrong with keeping your options open, unlike some McCann accusers on here who've had one-track minds since 2007.

In my opinion those desperately trying to make abduction the only possible crime are the ones with one-track minds.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 09:20:05 PM
In my opinion those desperately trying to make abduction the only possible crime are the ones with one-track minds.

Perhaps you are just very unobservant. I have never said abduction was the only possible crime just that  it was the most likely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 13, 2020, 09:23:02 PM
In my opinion those desperately trying to make abduction the only possible crime are the ones with one-track minds.
So you are completely open minded about the possibility of abduction and CB’s involvement then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: VIXTE on July 13, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
In my opinion those desperately trying to make abduction the only possible crime are the ones with one-track minds.

Nobody is desperately trying. A legitimate police force is saying that according to them this is what happened.
Another legitimate force is saying that they are still treating this case as a missing persons case.
There is a variety.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 09:42:18 PM
So you are completely open minded about the possibility of abduction and CB’s involvement then?

I'm actually more open minded than some imo in that I'm prepared to consider every possibility, including parental involvement.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 13, 2020, 09:45:14 PM
I'm actually more open minded than some imo in that I'm prepared to consider every possibility, including parental involvement.
You didn’t answer the question.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 09:46:05 PM
I'm actually more open minded than some imo in that I'm prepared to consider every possibility, including parental involvement.

Do you read the posts on her....most supporters are prepared to consider the parental involvement if proper evidence is produced. I find you very closed minded re grime and the dogs
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2020, 10:10:09 PM
Do you read the posts on her....most supporters are prepared to consider the parental involvement if proper evidence is produced. I find you very closed minded re grime and the dogs

With respect, you will never consider any evidence against the parents, imo, although you are prepared to accept their words without question. I find you verging on libellous when discussing Grime.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 13, 2020, 10:21:20 PM
With respect, you will never consider any evidence against the parents, imo, although you are prepared to accept their words without question. I find you verging on libellous when discussing Grime.

Total rubbish .....Pedro da Carmo said...no evidence against the parents and I dont accept their word without question. You dont seem to have  a clue how sceptics think.

as you mention grime....I wonder what the explanation will be if it turns out maddie didnt die in the apartment
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 14, 2020, 01:30:16 AM
Amaral didn't manage as co-ordantor of the investigation to follow through on the phone dump organised by the Brits.  Which in retrospect really should not have been too difficult a task using a basic process of elimination such as ...
  • phone calls made in an appropriate periods before and after Madeleine's disappearance pinging off the antennae serving Luz
  • was there a pattern to it
  • which of the calls were to and from criminals - particularly burglars
  • which of the calls were to individuals with a record of child abuse ... etc ... etc
Amaral didn't explain the circumstances in which the police weren't able to contact Brueckner because he wasn't in or why they never followed their visit up.

I think that is probably of far more importance than the victims of a horrendous crime clearing space on their message box to enable further messages to be received ... but even bringing up the nonsense thirteen years after the event leads me to wonder at the myopia of the master being reflected in the comments still being made by his support.

Well granted everyone clears texts on their mobile to receive more etc.... but what about what Amaral describes as manipulation of the calls log? Of interest why, reportedly, did GM's phone show no records of any calls made or received April 29th - May 4th. KM's phone shown no calls made until after midnight on May 4th.... but her mobile phone calls log shows she had RECEIVED a call from GM's phone at 23:17 on May 3rd? A former US Marshall (Mark McCleish) reportedly describes such deletions on call logs as "odd" and suggests such an act would "raise a red flag". It certainly raised the suspicion of Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 07:28:41 AM
Total rubbish .....Pedro da Carmo said...no evidence against the parents and I dont accept their word without question. You dont seem to have  a clue how sceptics think.

as you mention grime....I wonder what the explanation will be if it turns out maddie didnt die in the apartment
Potential incompetence is a far cry from wilful, fraudulent charlatanism.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 14, 2020, 07:44:49 AM
Total rubbish .....Pedro da Carmo said...no evidence against the parents and I dont accept their word without question. You dont seem to have  a clue how sceptics think.

as you mention grime....I wonder what the explanation will be if it turns out maddie didnt die in the apartment
How will they be able to tell where she died, even if they find her body?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 07:48:37 AM
Total rubbish .....Pedro da Carmo said...no evidence against the parents and I dont accept their word without question. You dont seem to have  a clue how sceptics think.

as you mention grime....I wonder what the explanation will be if it turns out maddie didnt die in the apartment


as you mention grime....I wonder what the explanation will be if it turns out maddie didnt die in the apartment

Do you realize if Maddie had been found at the time in 2007?

Grime's career would have probably been in tatters. and the dogs.

Eddie, the cadaver dog operated by Mr Martin Grime, earned more than the Chief Constable.

It wasn't just two or three alerts .......it was 17
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 07:52:53 AM

as you mention grime....I wonder what the explanation will be if it turns out maddie didnt die in the apartment

Do you realize if Maddie had been found at the time in 2007?

Grime's career would have probably been in tatters. and the dogs.

Eddie, the cadaver dog operated by Mr Martin Grime, earned more than the Chief Constable.

It wasn't just two or three alerts .......it was 17
You haven't answered the question...if Maddie didn't die in the apartment what will be Grimes explanation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 14, 2020, 08:01:32 AM

as you mention grime....I wonder what the explanation will be if it turns out maddie didnt die in the apartment

Do you realize if Maddie had been found at the time in 2007?

Grime's career would have probably been in tatters. and the dogs.

Eddie, the cadaver dog operated by Mr Martin Grime, earned more than the Chief Constable.

It wasn't just two or three alerts .......it was 17

I think you'll find that they were actually referring to Keela, not Eddie.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-372863/The-police-dog-earns-Chief-Constable.html

And there's a bit of a PR spin on that, IMO. IIRC, that was based on a hypothetical comparison of a daily work rate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 08:06:23 AM

as you mention grime....I wonder what the explanation will be if it turns out maddie didnt die in the apartment

Do you realize if Maddie had been found at the time in 2007?

Grime's career would have probably been in tatters. and the dogs.

Eddie, the cadaver dog operated by Mr Martin Grime, earned more than the Chief Constable.

It wasn't just two or three alerts .......it was 17


!7 alerts. from what is claimed by some to be the best cadaver dog in the world. If maddie died in the apartment at the hands of an abductor then she would have had to have been removed immediately. the only was there would have been time for cadaver odour to develop is if she was in that apartent..dead for 30 to 60 mins. that would mean that her parents would HAVE to be complicit.


So either the Mcanns are as guilty as hell or Grime and his dogs are wrong. Its that simple. so why haven't the mcCanns been found guilty and charged...the only explanation can be that the police...who understand the dogs...do not see those alerts as genuine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 08:07:02 AM
I think you'll find that they were actually referring to Keela, not Eddie.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-372863/The-police-dog-earns-Chief-Constable.html

And there's a bit of a PR spin on that, IMO. IIRC, that was based on a hypothetical comparison of a daily work rate.

yes more bull re the dogs
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 08:08:15 AM
You haven't answered the question...if Maddie didn't die in the apartment what will be Grimes explanation

Well as of now he doesn't need an explanation... and probably will never have to explain.

How the dogs found 17 alerts in 5A and on mcc clothing etc
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 08:11:23 AM
Well as of now he doesn't need an explanation... and probably will never have to explain.

How the dogs found 17 alerts in 5A and on mcc clothing etc

either the McCanns are guilty or the alerts are not to a cadaver...simple
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 08:14:33 AM
either the McCanns are guilty or the alerts are not to a cadaver...simple

Well, my vote goes to ..................................................................................there were cadaver imowa
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 08:19:03 AM
Well, my vote goes to ..................................................................................there were cadaver imowa



then why are the Germans convinced Breukner is guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 08:25:29 AM
then why are the Germans convinced Breukner is guilty

They have gone a bit quiet on that and seems they are in no rush.

But I do believe the only reason they think Maddie is dead is because of the alerts and markers.

In Germany, it seems the markers would have been proof.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 14, 2020, 08:29:21 AM
They have gone a bit quiet on that and seems they are in no rush.

But I do believe the only reason they think Maddie is dead is because of the alerts and markers.

In Germany, it seems the markers would have been proof.
@)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 14, 2020, 08:32:33 AM
How will they be able to tell where she died, even if they find her body?

They are following a specific line of inquiry at the moment.  They must be following the available evidence to do that.

We rightly do not know exactly what that may be, but it may contain further evidence of what happened to Madeleine after she was removed from the apartment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 08:33:05 AM
They have gone a bit quiet on that and seems they are in no rush.

But I do believe the only reason they think Maddie is dead is because of the alerts and markers.

In Germany, it seems the markers would have been proof.

I think you are totally mistaken,,

The germans said they have concrete/strong evidence that maddie is dead

they have refused to share this evidence with SY or the Pj or the parents...

And you think its the dog alerts...

if the Dog alerts are genuine it means the mcCanns are guity not Breukner
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 08:34:28 AM
@)(++(*

Well, you did say some are only on here for a laugh.

seems it's your third one today.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 08:34:35 AM
They have gone a bit quiet on that and seems they are in no rush.

But I do believe the only reason they think Maddie is dead is because of the alerts and markers.

In Germany, it seems the markers would have been proof.

seems to whom ..based on what.

the markers would not be proof in germany... 100% not proof...100% not admissible as evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 08:46:50 AM
I think you are totally mistaken,,

The germans said they have concrete/strong evidence that maddie is dead

they have refused to share this evidence with SY or the Pj or the parents...

And you think its the dog alerts...

if the Dog alerts are genuine it means the mcCanns are guity not Breukner
It is the dog alerts - that's the evidence. You know it too, deep down.
....and I thought the McCann's alluded to a 3rd possibility to explain the scent of death?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 08:48:06 AM
It is the dog alerts - that's the evidence. You know it too, deep down.
....and I thought the McCann's alluded to a 3rd possibility to explain the scent of death?

i take it this is a wind up...LOL
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 08:49:45 AM
i take it this is a wind up...LOL
Pays to have spent several years in Germany when reading German news.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 14, 2020, 08:51:31 AM
It is the dog alerts - that's the evidence. You know it too, deep down.
....and I thought the McCann's alluded to a 3rd possibility to explain the scent of death?

Not officially,that would confirm trust in the dogs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 08:52:45 AM
Not officially,that would confirm trust in the dogs.
Exactly right. Can't validate the concept when it suits and dismiss it when it doesn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 14, 2020, 08:52:51 AM
Well, you did say some are only on here for a laugh.

seems it's your third one today.

What you said is actually quite funny when you consider the reliance Amaral placed on the dogs.  Everyone else understood the forensic results which is why no charges were ever brought against the McCanns and Madeleine's case was archived for lack of evidence.

That is quite an extraordinary situation given the present situation in which Amaral has made it known he knew about Brueckner at the time he was tying himself in knots with fanciful dog alerts and the notion that Gerry could bi-locate to be in two places at once.
If he knew about Brueckner why did he do nothing about him.  Would it have interfered with what he and Cristovao were promoting in their best sellers?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 08:53:11 AM
Pays to have spent several years in Germany when reading German news.

Doesnt seem to have done you any good...I have close family and connections in Austria...gave me quite a chill when Breukners friend was interviewed in Graz...a city I know well and may well retire to.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 08:58:17 AM
What you said is actually quite funny when you consider the reliance Amaral placed on the dogs.  Everyone else understood the forensic results which is why no charges were ever brought against the McCanns and Madeleine's case was archived for lack of evidence.

That is quite an extraordinary situation given the present situation in which Amaral has made it known he knew about Brueckner at the time he was tying himself in knots with fanciful dog alerts and the notion that Gerry could bi-locate to be in two places at once.
If he knew about Brueckner why did he do nothing about him.  Would it have interfered with what he and Cristovao were promoting in their best sellers?

You may think it funny ..but tell it to someone who cares what a poster thinks......I don't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 14, 2020, 09:02:43 AM
You may think it funny ..but tell it to someone who cares what a poster thinks......I don't.

Why have you ignored the rest of my post :)

What you said is actually quite funny when you consider the reliance Amaral placed on the dogs.  Everyone else understood the forensic results which is why no charges were ever brought against the McCanns and Madeleine's case was archived for lack of evidence.

That is quite an extraordinary situation given the present situation in which Amaral has made it known he knew about Brueckner at the time he was tying himself in knots with fanciful dog alerts and the notion that Gerry could bi-locate to be in two places at once.
If he knew about Brueckner why did he do nothing about him.  Would it have interfered with what he and Cristovao were promoting in their best sellers?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg609347#msg609347
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 09:06:31 AM
Doesnt seem to have done you any good...I have close family and connections in Austria...gave me quite a chill when Breukners friend was interviewed in Graz...a city I know well and may well retire to.
Let's hope the Schluchtenscheisser don't have internet.
What do you suppose the evidence might be?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 09:41:19 AM
Why have you ignored the rest of my post :)

What you said is actually quite funny when you consider the reliance Amaral placed on the dogs.  Everyone else understood the forensic results which is why no charges were ever brought against the McCanns and Madeleine's case was archived for lack of evidence.

That is quite an extraordinary situation given the present situation in which Amaral has made it known he knew about Brueckner at the time he was tying himself in knots with fanciful dog alerts and the notion that Gerry could bi-locate to be in two places at once.
If he knew about Brueckner why did he do nothing about him.  Would it have interfered with what he and Cristovao were promoting in their best sellers?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg609347#msg609347

You would be better off worrying what OG is doing about him ...they know he existed.

What are they doing about him now they had 12 million at there disposal. spent on wild goose chase imo

It seem the only ones doing the work on him are the Germans. not OG, they don't even know what is going on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 09:43:37 AM
seems to whom ..based on what.

the markers would not be proof in germany... 100% not proof...100% not admissible as evidence

15/19 markers are more valid in other countries ...unfortunately they weren't in Portugal
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 09:58:07 AM
15/19 markers are more valid in other countries ...unfortunately they weren't in Portugal

The sample was LCN dna...this is not acceptable in most countries as evidence. google it. It was also a mixed sample. Your conclusion s are based on ignorance of the facts. The 15 markers are proof of absolutely nothing significant. thats not opinion its fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 14, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
Well, you did say some are only on here for a laugh.

seems it's your third one today.
It was a genuine response to a hilarious post.  Keep 'em coming!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 14, 2020, 10:51:03 AM
The Germans want to prosecute Brueckner and lock him up for as long as possible.
They don't really care what for, so if he becomes a scapegoat in the McCann case, so be it.



Don't tell me the Germans  are 'in on it'  too along with the Government,  the Royals,  MI5, the Army and everyone else.  They were all out to get me screams Amaral.   Sorry,  no.

The Germans have acquired evidence against CB solid evidence by the sound of it.   He will be taken to court and a judge will decide whether he is guilty or not.   Not the McCann's.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 14, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
Don't tell me the Germans  are 'in on it'  too along with the Government,  the Royals,  MI5, the Army and everyone else.  They were all out to get me screams Amaral.   Sorry,  no.

The Germans have acquired evidence against CB solid evidence by the sound of it.   He will be taken to court and a judge will decide whether he is guilty or not.   Not the McCann's.

Quite right, the McCanns will have no part in the decision.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 10:54:56 AM
Don't tell me the Germans  are 'in on it'  too along with the Government,  the Royals,  MI5, the Army and everyone else.  They were all out to get me screams Amaral.   Sorry,  no.

The Germans have acquired evidence against CB solid evidence by the sound of it.   He will be taken to court and a judge will decide whether he is guilty or not.   Not the McCann's.

CB solid evidence by the sound of it

The only sound you are going to hear is....... .BANG....  when your  bubble bursts imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
Don't tell me the Germans  are 'in on it'  too along with the Government,  the Royals,  MI5, the Army and everyone else.  They were all out to get me screams Amaral.   Sorry,  no.

The Germans have acquired evidence against CB solid evidence by the sound of it.   He will be taken to court and a judge will decide whether he is guilty or not.   Not the McCann's.
Well that's obviously not going to happen based on the 'evidence' they currently have as it's not enough to even think about a trial, otherwise we wouldn't all be sat here talking about it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 14, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
CB solid evidence by the sound of it

The only sound you are going to hear is....... .BANG....  when your  bubble bursts imo

Your bubble has already burst IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 14, 2020, 11:17:54 AM
Well that's obviously not going to happen based on the 'evidence' they currently have as it's not enough to even think about a trial, otherwise we wouldn't all be sat here talking about it.

They haven't told us about all the evidence they have.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 14, 2020, 11:39:22 AM
They haven't told us about all the evidence they have.


Probably because they haven't any.

who is us by the way.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 14, 2020, 12:09:08 PM
Don't tell me the Germans  are 'in on it'  too along with the Government,  the Royals,  MI5, the Army and everyone else.  They were all out to get me screams Amaral.   Sorry,  no.

The Germans have acquired evidence against CB solid evidence by the sound of it.   He will be taken to court and a judge will decide whether he is guilty or not.   Not the McCann's.

I don't recall the Army or the Royals ever getting involved. You've got to admit though that the immediate intervention of senior government employees from the UK was not normal. Compare the government response to the Ben Needham case for example.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 14, 2020, 12:30:22 PM
I don't recall the Army or the Royals ever getting involved. You've got to admit though that the immediate intervention of senior government employees from the UK was not normal. Compare the government response to the Ben Needham case for example.
It's not abnormal.  The French ambassador travelled to the site of Nora Quoirin's disappearance for example.   I don't think you pay close enough attention to other high profile cases involving foreign nationals, and the response their cases attract from high ranking government officials from their own countries.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2020, 12:57:59 PM
It's not abnormal.  The French ambassador travelled to the site of Nora Quoirin's disappearance for example.   I don't think you pay close enough attention to other high profile cases involving foreign nationals, and the response their cases attract from high ranking government officials from their own countries.

The French Ambassador travelled for an hour after 5 days. The British Ambassador travelled for 3 hours after around 8 hours. In my opinion that was very early when there was a support available from the Consul.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 12:59:49 PM
The French Ambassador travelled for an hour after 5 days. The British Ambassador travelled for 3 hours after around 8 hours. In my opinion that was very early when there was a support available from the Consul.

Some say the consul was aware of how badly the cipriano case had been handled
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 01:02:38 PM
Some say the consul was aware of how badly the cipriano case had been handled
Channelling Trump again...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 14, 2020, 01:03:33 PM
It's not abnormal.  The French ambassador travelled to the site of Nora Quoirin's disappearance for example.   I don't think you pay close enough attention to other high profile cases involving foreign nationals, and the response their cases attract from high ranking government officials from their own countries.

What made this such a "high profile" case as early as May 5th? You give one example in comparison - thank you but isn't a case involving the UK government. Compare the involvement of the Government in the Ben Needham case - why is there such a difference? Maybe the Government saw it as good PR but I'm not convinced that's the driver from such an early stage
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 14, 2020, 01:03:48 PM
Channelling Trump again...

Some might say...do you know who that is
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 01:06:58 PM
They haven't told us about all the evidence they have.
It doesn't matter how much evidence they currently have, it could be a truck load, but it's patently not enough to satisfy the threshold to even attempt to charge him. They're not holding anything back from the prosecutor, the prosecutor have binned them off and told them to find more definitive evidence to make a case.
Hence the bizarre request for help in tracing a phone number the internets found in 3 minutes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 01:07:37 PM
Some might say...do you know who that is
Brian Kennedy?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2020, 01:12:02 PM
Some say the consul was aware of how badly the cipriano case had been handled

Well you lot have certainly said it; ad infinitum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 14, 2020, 01:19:33 PM
Some say the consul was aware of how badly the cipriano case had been handled

And Michael Cooke who appeared in Court with his face battered.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 14, 2020, 01:40:00 PM
What made this such a "high profile" case as early as May 5th? You give one example in comparison - thank you but isn't a case involving the UK government. Compare the involvement of the Government in the Ben Needham case - why is there such a difference? Maybe the Government saw it as good PR but I'm not convinced that's the driver from such an early stage
What made it such a high profile case is the intense media interest from the start, that's what.  There are other recent cases in which UK government officials have got involved early on, I just can't think of them right now, but there are - each time one happens I think of this particular case and the criticism of government intervention levelled at it.  As for Benn Needham - different times and attitudes, different level of media coverage, that's why.  IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 14, 2020, 01:49:41 PM

Probably because they haven't any.

who is us by the way.

'us'  the general public.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 14, 2020, 01:52:26 PM
I don't recall the Army or the Royals ever getting involved. You've got to admit though that the immediate intervention of senior government employees from the UK was not normal. Compare the government response to the Ben Needham case for example.

Everyone in high place was involved in the cover up according to some conspiracy group.  I don't think it was unusual for the Government to get involved.  Didn't they express sympathy in the case of James Bulger?  When Ben disappeared there wasn't so much publicity and it was abroad,  no internet etc.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 14, 2020, 01:54:15 PM
It doesn't matter how much evidence they currently have, it could be a truck load, but it's patently not enough to satisfy the threshold to even attempt to charge him. They're not holding anything back from the prosecutor, the prosecutor have binned them off and told them to find more definitive evidence to make a case.
Hence the bizarre request for help in tracing a phone number the internets found in 3 minutes.

I don't think we are in a position to say how much evidence they have.   Could be they want to trace an accomplice.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 14, 2020, 02:20:36 PM
I don't think we are in a position to say how much evidence they have.   Could be they want to trace an accomplice.
Eh? If they had enough evidence they would be bang at it. Ergo......they don't have enough evidence. You're suggesting they might have more than they're letting on, which they might, but that 'more than they're letting on' still isn't enough!
So, we are in a position to say how much evidence they've got - not enough.

Besides, the 'concrete evidence' is the EVRD searches + the cache of semi-incriminating child porn.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2020, 02:53:42 PM
What made it such a high profile case is the intense media interest from the start, that's what.  There are other recent cases in which UK government officials have got involved early on, I just can't think of them right now, but there are - each time one happens I think of this particular case and the criticism of government intervention levelled at it.  As for Benn Needham - different times and attitudes, different level of media coverage, that's why.  IMO

The intense media interest which the McCanns, their friends and their relatives spent all night attracting.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 14, 2020, 05:14:42 PM
The intense media interest which the McCanns, their friends and their relatives spent all night attracting.
And your problem with that is...?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 14, 2020, 08:33:54 PM
Unpublished photos show Maddie's father searching the beach and rocks of Praia da Luz

Gerry walked the rocks and sand with a friend. He never clarified what he was doing.

Tânia Laranjo
June 28, 2020 at 1:30 am

(https://cdn4.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_27_22_10_09_952861.jpg)

A set of unpublished images, released this Sunday by the CM , show Gerry, the father of Madeleine McCann - the English girl who was then three years old disappeared in the Algarve on May 3, 2007 -, and a friend, in the middle of Praia da Luz, few days after the alert, in what seems like private searches in the sand and rocks. It is another element to cast doubt, at a time when the German police insist that Christian Brueckner, who lived in the Algarve at that time, kidnapped and killed the child.

It is not known who the man is. Only that they left without being seen from the Ocean Club village, where the girl disappeared and where hundreds of journalists and police were concentrated. They used a rear access, reserved for employees. They went to the beach, about 500 meters from where Maddie was left to sleep with her two 18-month-old brothers.

(https://cdn5.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_27_22_45_36_952865.jpg)

Gerry and his friend talked on the wall and went down to the rocks, where they were looking for something. At that time, the only thesis was still that of abduction. It was advanced by the parents and fed by the English police. There were searches in several places and suspects were being sought. Gerry's behaviour was never explained. Only on that beach he met at least two more Englishmen.

José Manuel Anes, a criminalist and university professor, said this Saturday at CMTV that the McCann couple tried to hire him as an expert, at a time when Kate and Gerry were defendants. He did not answer them.
The former Judiciary Police (PJ) coordinator who investigated Maddie's disappearance, Gonçalo Amaral, revealed yesterday on CMTV that the PJ initially admitted the possibility of kidnapping the child after a request by the British ambassador. “Parents should have been treated as suspects from the start. But there were other pressures. It is not for nothing that the British ambassador of the time came to the place.

(https://cdn.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_27_22_45_46_952867.jpg)

The director of the Faro PJ announced that it was a kidnapping after speaking with the ambassador ”, revealed the former inspector, who considers that the German prosecutor who announced that Christian Brueckner is the main suspect in Maddie's kidnapping and death“ has not yet read the process".

According to Gonçalo Amaral, the house where Maddie disappeared "had no signs of burglary" and "the only fingerprints found on the window were the mother's."

In the opinion of the former coordinator of the PJ, the German police "dropped the rabbit and now everything is after him", referring to Christian Brueckner.

(https://cdn1.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_27_22_46_04_952868.jpg)

https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/fotos-ineditas-mostram-buscas-do-pai-de-maddie-mccann-no-areal-e-rochas
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2020, 08:36:50 PM
And your problem with that is...?

What problem?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 14, 2020, 09:12:41 PM
What problem?
You don’t have any problem with the intense media interest the McCanns and their friends managed to generate?  Cool.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2020, 10:22:51 PM
Unpublished photos show Maddie's father searching the beach and rocks of Praia da Luz

Gerry walked the rocks and sand with a friend. He never clarified what he was doing.

Tânia Laranjo
June 28, 2020 at 1:30 am

(https://cdn4.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_27_22_10_09_952861.jpg)

A set of unpublished images, released this Sunday by the CM , show Gerry, the father of Madeleine McCann - the English girl who was then three years old disappeared in the Algarve on May 3, 2007 -, and a friend, in the middle of Praia da Luz, few days after the alert, in what seems like private searches in the sand and rocks. It is another element to cast doubt, at a time when the German police insist that Christian Brueckner, who lived in the Algarve at that time, kidnapped and killed the child.

It is not known who the man is. Only that they left without being seen from the Ocean Club village, where the girl disappeared and where hundreds of journalists and police were concentrated. They used a rear access, reserved for employees. They went to the beach, about 500 meters from where Maddie was left to sleep with her two 18-month-old brothers.

(https://cdn5.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_27_22_45_36_952865.jpg)

Gerry and his friend talked on the wall and went down to the rocks, where they were looking for something. At that time, the only thesis was still that of abduction. It was advanced by the parents and fed by the English police. There were searches in several places and suspects were being sought. Gerry's behaviour was never explained. Only on that beach he met at least two more Englishmen.

José Manuel Anes, a criminalist and university professor, said this Saturday at CMTV that the McCann couple tried to hire him as an expert, at a time when Kate and Gerry were defendants. He did not answer them.
The former Judiciary Police (PJ) coordinator who investigated Maddie's disappearance, Gonçalo Amaral, revealed yesterday on CMTV that the PJ initially admitted the possibility of kidnapping the child after a request by the British ambassador. “Parents should have been treated as suspects from the start. But there were other pressures. It is not for nothing that the British ambassador of the time came to the place.

(https://cdn.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_27_22_45_46_952867.jpg)

The director of the Faro PJ announced that it was a kidnapping after speaking with the ambassador ”, revealed the former inspector, who considers that the German prosecutor who announced that Christian Brueckner is the main suspect in Maddie's kidnapping and death“ has not yet read the process".

According to Gonçalo Amaral, the house where Maddie disappeared "had no signs of burglary" and "the only fingerprints found on the window were the mother's."

In the opinion of the former coordinator of the PJ, the German police "dropped the rabbit and now everything is after him", referring to Christian Brueckner.

(https://cdn1.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_27_22_46_04_952868.jpg)

https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/fotos-ineditas-mostram-buscas-do-pai-de-maddie-mccann-no-areal-e-rochas

Unpublished? I've seen them before.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gerry+mccann+and+michael+wright&rlz=1CAPKUQ_enGB867GB867&sxsrf=ALeKk03NUFOcxFvFfD8TImCYV-D3s1A_Tg:1594760200759&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_m5La0M3qAhUsTBUIHSlDAD0Q_AUoAXoECAsQAw&biw=1163&bih=517
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 14, 2020, 10:26:00 PM
Unpublished? I've seen them before.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gerry+mccann+and+michael+wright&rlz=1CAPKUQ_enGB867GB867&sxsrf=ALeKk03NUFOcxFvFfD8TImCYV-D3s1A_Tg:1594760200759&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_m5La0M3qAhUsTBUIHSlDAD0Q_AUoAXoECAsQAw&biw=1163&bih=517

Hasn't everybody?  I know I have.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 14, 2020, 10:42:41 PM
Hasn't everybody?  I know I have.

And me. Isn’t the other man the Wright person, husband of Kate’s cousin ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2020, 10:47:36 PM
And me. Isn’t the other man the Wright person, husband of Kate’s cousin ?

Sure is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 15, 2020, 08:28:27 AM
Hasn't everybody?  I know I have.

One of the transcripts of his sofa chat days has Amaral wise cracking about it  ... I cannot remember exactly what he said but it was an unkind, sneering remark when taking into consideration the desperation which drove them to search the rocks on the beach for a missing child.
On reading it I thought it summed up the exact measure of Amaral as a man.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 15, 2020, 08:31:10 AM
One of the transcripts of his sofa chat days has Amaral wise cracking about it  ... I cannot remember exactly what he said but it was an unkind, sneering remark when taking into consideration the desperation which drove them to search the rocks on the beach for a missing child.
On reading it I thought it summed up the exact measure of Amaral as a man.
Such a memorable remark that you can't remember it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 15, 2020, 08:57:57 AM
Such a memorable remark that you can't remember it.

He made so many and repeated them so often that it is difficult to keep track of them all ... he did after all spend years as a permanent TV pundit doing nothing but living off Madeleine and the human misery he massaged to keep the Euros flooding in.

Did he ever make that huge donation I seem to remember was promised to disadvantaged children ... or is that something else to be airbrushed from history.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 15, 2020, 09:06:18 AM
One of the transcripts of his sofa chat days has Amaral wise cracking about it  ... I cannot remember exactly what he said but it was an unkind, sneering remark when taking into consideration the desperation which drove them to search the rocks on the beach for a missing child.
On reading it I thought it summed up the exact measure of Amaral as a man.

Shows a different light IMO if you don't believe the abduction in the first place.

I believe it summed up the exact measure of mccs as parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 15, 2020, 09:30:02 AM
He made so many and repeated them so often that it is difficult to keep track of them all ... he did after all spend years as a permanent TV pundit doing nothing but living off Madeleine and the human misery he massaged to keep the Euros flooding in.

Did he ever make that huge donation I seem to remember was promised to disadvantaged children ... or is that something else to be airbrushed from history.

It's called free speech Brietta.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 15, 2020, 09:33:44 AM
He made so many and repeated them so often that it is difficult to keep track of them all ... he did after all spend years as a permanent TV pundit doing nothing but living off Madeleine and the human misery he massaged to keep the Euros flooding in.

Did he ever make that huge donation I seem to remember was promised to disadvantaged children
... or is that something else to be airbrushed from history.

Apart from obsessives  like yourself very few people will care either way - IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 15, 2020, 09:36:04 AM
It's called free speech Brietta.
I think the ECHR won't agree and the threat does seem to have quietened him..imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 15, 2020, 09:37:29 AM
It's called free speech Brietta.

Why doesn't your idea of free speech extend to my criticism of the alerts and grime
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 15, 2020, 09:54:21 AM
Why doesn't your idea of free speech extend to my criticism of the alerts and grime

In my opinion you stray into libellous territory. Forum rules forbid that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 15, 2020, 09:54:48 AM
Why doesn't your idea of free speech extend to my criticism of the alerts and grime

It's "Free Speech But Only For Me"
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 15, 2020, 09:56:09 AM
In my opinion you stray into libellous territory. Forum rules forbid that.

So your opinion dictates what I can and cannot say...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 15, 2020, 10:02:55 AM
So your opinion dictates what I can and cannot say...
On the forum - yes, because it doesn't belong to you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 15, 2020, 10:05:22 AM
So your opinion dictates what I can and cannot say...

The opinions of all the moderators, not just mine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 15, 2020, 10:23:21 AM
The opinions of all the moderators, not just mine.
No.. moderator s remove posts based on their understanding of libel law ..which may not be particularly good. The fact that you think my posts border on libel suggests to me you don't fully understand the law
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 15, 2020, 10:53:18 AM
No.. moderator s remove posts based on their understanding of libel law ..which may not be particularly good. The fact that you think my posts border on libel suggests to me you don't fully understand the law

I think you understand the forum rules by now, however. If you wish to challenge forum moderation this is not the thread upon which to do so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 15, 2020, 11:00:29 AM
I think you understand the forum rules by now, however. If you wish to challenge forum moderation this is not the thread upon which to do so.

I simply challenged your post re your support for free speech

Quite reasonable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 15, 2020, 11:25:12 AM
I simply challenged your post re your support for free speech

Quite reasonable
Come on Dav, take one for the team....go on......it's been ages since you got any decent points.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 15, 2020, 11:42:18 AM
One of the transcripts of his sofa chat days has Amaral wise cracking about it  ... I cannot remember exactly what he said but it was an unkind, sneering remark when taking into consideration the desperation which drove them to search the rocks on the beach for a missing child.
On reading it I thought it summed up the exact measure of Amaral as a man.

Was it this remark Brietta -

GA: I do not believe that he was looking for crabs nor searching for a live daughter. According to Moita Flores, it would be important to return to this area, I believe so, even because there are people who continue to say today that the body might be around here, and continue to give information about places. It should be looked, the police should make searches, they should reopen the process and resume the investigations. There is much to be done still.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 15, 2020, 11:46:47 AM
Was it this remark Brietta -

GA: I do not believe that he was looking for crabs nor searching for a live daughter. According to Moita Flores, it would be important to return to this area, I believe so, even because there are people who continue to say today that the body might be around here, and continue to give information about places. It should be looked, the police should make searches, they should reopen the process and resume the investigations. There is much to be done still.
The monster!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 15, 2020, 11:50:32 AM
The monster!

Snide,  cunning.   Remarking that he thought Gerry was looking for Madeleine's body.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 15, 2020, 11:55:12 AM
A bit later they had put Madeleine's body in a coffin with an English woman,  can't have it both ways.  Oh hang on, no,  they dumped her in a bin didn't they?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 15, 2020, 11:57:11 AM
Snide,  cunning.   Remarking that he thought Gerry was looking for Madeleine's body.
Cunning? I thought he was borderline retarded? You guys - have a meeting and get your opinions aligned.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 15, 2020, 12:18:02 PM
Cunning? I thought he was borderline retarded? You guys - have a meeting and get your opinions aligned.

You said it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 15, 2020, 12:19:02 PM
Was it this remark Brietta -

GA: I do not believe that he was looking for crabs nor searching for a live daughter. According to Moita Flores, it would be important to return to this area, I believe so, even because there are people who continue to say today that the body might be around here, and continue to give information about places. It should be looked, the police should make searches, they should reopen the process and resume the investigations. There is much to be done still.

Thanks Lace, it is.  The full flavour is not in the transcript of the sneering words, it lies in the video of him saying them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 15, 2020, 07:23:02 PM
Thanks Lace, it is.  The full flavour is not in the transcript of the sneering words, it lies in the video of him saying them.

Yes I remember it Brietta.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 15, 2020, 11:21:12 PM
He made so many and repeated them so often that it is difficult to keep track of them all ... he did after all spend years as a permanent TV pundit doing nothing but living off Madeleine and the human misery he massaged to keep the Euros flooding in.

Did he ever make that huge donation I seem to remember was promised to disadvantaged children ... or is that something else to be airbrushed from history.

"he did after all spend years as a permanent TV pundit doing nothing but living off Madeleine"


General re "Cunning? I thought he was borderline retarded? You guys - have a meeting and get your opinions aligned."

I will have my people contact their people  the people need to, what ever it is they need to, you know
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 16, 2020, 12:25:22 AM
However should further assurance be required I would suggest a
limited inspection around the rock falls at the base of the cliffs' on the beach
and the waters around the rocky outcrop to the east of the beach.


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 17, 2020, 01:02:35 AM
However should further assurance be required I would suggest a
limited inspection around the rock falls at the base of the cliffs' on the beach
and the waters around the rocky outcrop to the east of the beach.


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

Did that ever happen?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 17, 2020, 09:26:26 AM
The thing here is GA is often mocked  ridiculed

But we will never know what he would have achieved if he had been allowed to do his job as the investigating officer.

So many hurdles were put in front of him to actually do that job properly. to much interference from uk



"The McCanns knew that I was going to catch them", 20 October 2008



GA - Believe me, I feel no rage, I'm not even angry. I have understood their game and you also know how this game works. The lies about me, the manipulation is not exactly against the citizen Gonçalo Amaral. They were against the investigator who knew their weaknesses and was going to catch them sooner or later. It was all a matter of time. The McCanns knew that I was going to get them. As you could see, all it took was for the process to be archived in order for everything to be finished. At this moment in time, I'm convinced that they don't even remember my name anymore. So the game is always the same. We want to catch them, they want to escape, and that's it. Sometimes the bandits win, sometimes the policemen do. This time around, and concerning this case, it was how it was. They stopped insulting me, they stopped the campaigns to find their daughter, it's over. They got what they wanted and therefore, peace is back.

MF – And you launch a "grenade" that is called The Truth of the Lie into the midst of that peace. Whoever reads your testimony is left with few doubts about the little girl's destiny. She died in the apartment.

GA – Do you doubt it?

MF – No. Neither I nor the older people who used to work with me. When this happened, I was in Greece and I heard the news through an English channel. The story was so badly told, that only a naive or silly person would believe it. As a matter of fact, when I arrived, I had dinner with several already retired colleagues that worked in homicides, and their opinion was the same. The detail about the window killed the version. Nobody passes through that narrow window space carrying a child.





Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 17, 2020, 10:03:53 AM
From the same interview:
MF – Things were different in my time. She would have been under such an attack that before she realized anything, she’d be in jail.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 17, 2020, 10:14:22 AM
From the same interview:
MF – Things were different in my time. She would have been under such an attack that before she realized anything, she’d be in jail.

Beaten black and blue.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 17, 2020, 10:24:17 AM
From the same interview:
MF – Things were different in my time. She would have been under such an attack that before she realized anything, she’d be in jail.

Yes, the same can happen in uk.

They are usually the first suspects ...were as the mccs were privilege to the benefit of the doubt.

IMO was a mistake.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 17, 2020, 10:36:30 AM
The thing here is GA is often mocked  ridiculed

But we will never know what he would have achieved if he had been allowed to do his job as the investigating officer.

So many hurdles were put in front of him to actually do that job properly. to much interference from uk



"The McCanns knew that I was going to catch them", 20 October 2008



GA - Believe me, I feel no rage, I'm not even angry. I have understood their game and you also know how this game works. The lies about me, the manipulation is not exactly against the citizen Gonçalo Amaral. They were against the investigator who knew their weaknesses and was going to catch them sooner or later. It was all a matter of time. The McCanns knew that I was going to get them. As you could see, all it took was for the process to be archived in order for everything to be finished. At this moment in time, I'm convinced that they don't even remember my name anymore. So the game is always the same. We want to catch them, they want to escape, and that's it. Sometimes the bandits win, sometimes the policemen do. This time around, and concerning this case, it was how it was. They stopped insulting me, they stopped the campaigns to find their daughter, it's over. They got what they wanted and therefore, peace is back.

MF – And you launch a "grenade" that is called The Truth of the Lie into the midst of that peace. Whoever reads your testimony is left with few doubts about the little girl's destiny. She died in the apartment.

GA – Do you doubt it?

MF – No. Neither I nor the older people who used to work with me. When this happened, I was in Greece and I heard the news through an English channel. The story was so badly told, that only a naive or silly person would believe it. As a matter of fact, when I arrived, I had dinner with several already retired colleagues that worked in homicides, and their opinion was the same. The detail about the window killed the version. Nobody passes through that narrow window space carrying a child.
Have you read the whole interview...even the interviewer mocks Amaral. He says here that what killed the version was  a child being carried through the window...no one suggested that...another crackpot point by amaral. as for what he could have achieved its obvious from his past mistakes the answers nothing imo. You are fantasising and speculating
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 17, 2020, 10:48:42 AM
The thing here is GA is often mocked  ridiculed

But we will never know what he would have achieved if he had been allowed to do his job as the investigating officer.

So many hurdles were put in front of him to actually do that job properly. to much interference from uk



"The McCanns knew that I was going to catch them", 20 October 2008



GA - Believe me, I feel no rage, I'm not even angry. I have understood their game and you also know how this game works. The lies about me, the manipulation is not exactly against the citizen Gonçalo Amaral. They were against the investigator who knew their weaknesses and was going to catch them sooner or later. It was all a matter of time. The McCanns knew that I was going to get them. As you could see, all it took was for the process to be archived in order for everything to be finished. At this moment in time, I'm convinced that they don't even remember my name anymore. So the game is always the same. We want to catch them, they want to escape, and that's it. Sometimes the bandits win, sometimes the policemen do. This time around, and concerning this case, it was how it was. They stopped insulting me, they stopped the campaigns to find their daughter, it's over. They got what they wanted and therefore, peace is back.

MF – And you launch a "grenade" that is called The Truth of the Lie into the midst of that peace. Whoever reads your testimony is left with few doubts about the little girl's destiny. She died in the apartment.

GA – Do you doubt it?

MF – No. Neither I nor the older people who used to work with me. When this happened, I was in Greece and I heard the news through an English channel. The story was so badly told, that only a naive or silly person would believe it. As a matter of fact, when I arrived, I had dinner with several already retired colleagues that worked in homicides, and their opinion was the same. The detail about the window killed the version. Nobody passes through that narrow window space carrying a child.

They didn't stop their campaigns  to find their daughter though did they?   I think Amaral thought they would,  I don't think he thought the McCann's would carry on searching for Madeleine,  he thought they would go away with their tails between their legs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 17, 2020, 11:26:26 AM
Have you read the whole interview...even the interviewer mocks Amaral. He says here that what killed the version was  a child being carried through the window...no one suggested that...another crackpot point by amaral. as for what he could have achieved its obvious from his past mistakes the answers nothing imo. You are fantasising and speculating

Am I ...you wish.

well not to worry looks like SY are now going to get back in the act....I believe back to square one.

What a shambles





A friend of the McCanns cited by the Mail Online admits if the case is dropped, it “would be a huge embarrassment to the German authorities”.

But the family at least can cling to the knowledge that efforts are still being made by police forces (even if these forces don’t seem to see eye-to-eye) and the Grange probe – which has already cost upwards of €12 million – is to be extended.

https://www.portugalresident.com/renewed-home-office-funding-for-maddie-search-as-germans-admit-inquiries-into-latest-suspect-may-be-dropped/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 17, 2020, 11:27:42 AM
They didn't stop their campaigns  to find their daughter though did they?   I think Amaral thought they would,  I don't think he thought the McCann's would carry on searching for Madeleine,  he thought they would go away with their tails between their legs.

Thats a matter of opinion L
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 17, 2020, 12:15:46 PM
Am I ...you wish.

well not to worry looks like SY are now going to get back in the act....I believe back to square one.

What a shambles





A friend of the McCanns cited by the Mail Online admits if the case is dropped, it “would be a huge embarrassment to the German authorities”.

But the family at least can cling to the knowledge that efforts are still being made by police forces (even if these forces don’t seem to see eye-to-eye) and the Grange probe – which has already cost upwards of €12 million – is to be extended.

https://www.portugalresident.com/renewed-home-office-funding-for-maddie-search-as-germans-admit-inquiries-into-latest-suspect-may-be-dropped/

The shambles is Amaral and his team didn't carry out a proper investigation in the first place. CB wouldn't even be in the frame if the PJ had solved the rape case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 17, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
The shambles is Amaral and his team didn't carry out a proper investigation in the first place. CB wouldn't even be in the frame if the PJ had solved the rape case

Proably CB wouldnt have been in the frame at all if they hadnt got rid of GA at first opitunity/excuse.

The reason I believe was he was a thorn in there side  .. when the UK decided to go for abduction only

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 17, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Proably CB wouldnt have been in the frame at all if they hadnt got rid of GA at first opitunity/excuse.

The reason I believe was he was a thorn in there side  .. when the UK decided to go for abduction only

I don't believe SY have ever gone for abduction only..and I think Amaral is an extremely poor investigstor
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 17, 2020, 12:43:43 PM
I don't believe SY have ever gone for abduction only..and I think Amaral is an extremely poor investigstor

Well I believe they did.




He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.
In September 2007, four months after Maddie vanished, parents Kate and Gerry McCann were declared arguidos, the Portuguese word for suspects, in the case.
Weeks later, Mr Amaral was thrown off the case after he was quoted in a newspaper criticising the involvement of British police and their lines of investigation.
He claimed he was the victim of external political pressure being applied on the Policia Judiciaria.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 17, 2020, 12:53:20 PM
Well I believe they did.




He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.
In September 2007, four months after Maddie vanished, parents Kate and Gerry McCann were declared arguidos, the Portuguese word for suspects, in the case.
Weeks later, Mr Amaral was thrown off the case after he was quoted in a newspaper criticising the involvement of British police and their lines of investigation.
He claimed he was the victim of external political pressure being applied on the Policia Judiciaria.


I don't think they did and I don't believe a word the convicted liar  Amaral says
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 17, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
I don't think they did and I don't believe a word the convicted liar  Amaral says

It's always somebody else's fault with Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 17, 2020, 01:58:34 PM
I don't think they did and I don't believe a word the convicted liar  Amaral says

Seems a lot of that going on in this case IMO...seems put across as contradictions

Don't suppose it matters what we believe anyway ...were not the police just posters on a forum with different opinions..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 17, 2020, 02:04:59 PM
Seems a lot of that going on in this case IMO...seems put across as contradictions

Don't suppose it matters what we believe anyway ...were not the police just posters on a forum with different opinions..

amaral is the only convicted liar
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 17, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
Well I believe they did.




He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.
In September 2007, four months after Maddie vanished, parents Kate and Gerry McCann were declared arguidos, the Portuguese word for suspects, in the case.
Weeks later, Mr Amaral was thrown off the case after he was quoted in a newspaper criticising the involvement of British police and their lines of investigation.
He claimed he was the victim of external political pressure being applied on the Policia Judiciaria.


Thought he said the British Police all agreed with his theory?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 17, 2020, 02:38:56 PM
Thought he said the British Police all agreed with his theory?

Thhey did then everything seemed to change.

just one little snip

As time went by, we noticed that a certain number of the police officers sent to Portugal were poorly informed about the progress of the investigation. One of them who - like the majority - was coming to Portugal for the first time, was wearing a green and yellow rubber wrist band, bought for £2, which he played with nervously. The inscription read, "Look for Madeleine." Some of his colleagues told him that he would soon get rid of it. As a matter of fact, he took it off as soon as he got properly into the investigation and he had learned about the evidence placing doubt on the theory of abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 17, 2020, 02:43:00 PM
Thhey did then everything seemed to change.

just one little snip

As time went by, we noticed that a certain number of the police officers sent to Portugal were poorly informed about the progress of the investigation. One of them who - like the majority - was coming to Portugal for the first time, was wearing a green and yellow rubber wrist band, bought for £2, which he played with nervously. The inscription read, "Look for Madeleine." Some of his colleagues told him that he would soon get rid of it. As a matter of fact, he took it off as soon as he got properly into the investigation and he had learned about the evidence placing doubt on the theory of abduction.

There is no independent source that says the UK police believed amarals theory...you keep quoting a convicted liar...I don't see that as any way reliable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 17, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
There is no independent source that says the UK police believed amarals theory...you keep quoting a convicted liar...I don't see that as any way reliable

Well, three judjes took him on face value when he won his case against the mccs...for libel

So it doesn't really matter what you think ...as I said we are only posters on a forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 17, 2020, 03:30:08 PM
Well, three judjes took him on face value when he won his case against the mccs...for libel

So it doesn't really matter what you think ...as I said we are only posters on a forum.

It doesn't matter what anyone here thinks...I've said that many times
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 17, 2020, 03:34:38 PM
Proably CB wouldnt have been in the frame at all if they hadnt got rid of GA at first opitunity/excuse.

The reason I believe was he was a thorn in there side  .. when the UK decided to go for abduction only

According to Amaral he was.  But he wasn't at home when the police called.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 17, 2020, 03:38:33 PM
Well I believe they did.




He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.
In September 2007, four months after Maddie vanished, parents Kate and Gerry McCann were declared arguidos, the Portuguese word for suspects, in the case.
Weeks later, Mr Amaral was thrown off the case after he was quoted in a newspaper criticising the involvement of British police and their lines of investigation.
He claimed he was the victim of external political pressure being applied on the Policia Judiciaria.


Doesn't Amaral sound a bit paranoid to you.  He has generated one or two nonsensical conspiracy theories which suggest to me he is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 17, 2020, 03:53:40 PM
Doesn't Amaral sound a bit paranoid to you.  He has generated one or two nonsensical conspiracy theories which suggest to me he is.

It sounds a bit more like Laziness to me.  Decide who dunnit and then go for it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 17, 2020, 05:34:38 PM
It sounds a bit more like Laziness to me.  Decide who dunnit and then go for it.

I believe in Madeleine's case and probably in others, Amaral has manipulated the evidence to suit his speculations.  Sometimes making up the headlines to suit his interpretation of the evidence and using unsuspecting journalists to that end.

So I agree his methods do smack of laziness (as well as an awful lot of other things) and if the purpose of justice is to keep offenders off the streets and unable to target new victims, I think it is a highly inefficient way of doing things.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 17, 2020, 07:30:33 PM
It doesn't matter what anyone here thinks...I've said that many times
But no one likes losing the argument, so it matters on a personal level.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 17, 2020, 07:43:57 PM
But no one likes losing the argument, so it matters on a personal level.

Only to those who realise/accept that they've lost.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 17, 2020, 07:46:09 PM
Only to those who realise/accept that they've lost.
Even that acceptance would be progress IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 17, 2020, 07:50:37 PM
But no one likes losing the argument, so it matters on a personal level.

You are making an assumption that I've lost the or an argument. I don't see that I have. There is no independent judge on here to decide. if there was i think some posters would be very upset. I can assure you I don't take anything here particularly seriously. I spoke to someone  a few weeks ago who was convinced the earth was flat and the sun rotated around the earth...he gave all his evidence and probably thought he won the argument...because hes stupid
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 17, 2020, 07:55:51 PM

We'll have no personal attacks against Davel.  Thank You.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 17, 2020, 08:35:03 PM
We'll have no personal attacks against Davel.  Thank You.

It's against the rules to attack anyone personally. Thank You.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 17, 2020, 08:38:13 PM
It's against the rules to attack anyone personally. Thank You.

 A lot seems to go on though
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 17, 2020, 08:43:26 PM
A lot seems to go on though

I shall pay more attention.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 17, 2020, 09:14:15 PM
We'll have no personal attacks against Davel.  Thank You.

Do you keep an eye for all attacks or only on your dave.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 17, 2020, 09:36:56 PM
Do you keep an eye for all attacks or only on your dave.

As a matter of fact Eleanor is one of the most even handed mods ever on this forum.  You should treasure her.

Back on topic now please.  Goncalo Amaral
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 17, 2020, 10:27:22 PM
I don't think they did and I don't believe a word the convicted liar  Amaral says

Colin Sutton said more or less the same...

https://www.9news.com.au/world/uk-police-guilty-of-flawed-tunnel-vision-in-hunt-for-maddie-mccann-answers/51e8dea1-cd59-4de2-9ac1-c4910ee9c457 (https://www.9news.com.au/world/uk-police-guilty-of-flawed-tunnel-vision-in-hunt-for-maddie-mccann-answers/51e8dea1-cd59-4de2-9ac1-c4910ee9c457)

"Scotland Yard's six-year investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance was a poisoned chalice laced with critical errors because of a high level agenda to not interrogate the child's parents, according to a former UK detective.
The explosive revelations were made by retired Metropolitan Police homicide cop Colin Sutton, who at one time was touted as a possible candidate to lead Operation Grange and the search for Maddie, now missing for 10 years.
Operation Grange's narrow remit to focus only on the theory that the four-year-old was abducted from the family's holiday apartment in Portugal was unusual and a "missed opportunity""
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 17, 2020, 10:31:39 PM
Colin Sutton said more or less the same...

https://www.9news.com.au/world/uk-police-guilty-of-flawed-tunnel-vision-in-hunt-for-maddie-mccann-answers/51e8dea1-cd59-4de2-9ac1-c4910ee9c457 (https://www.9news.com.au/world/uk-police-guilty-of-flawed-tunnel-vision-in-hunt-for-maddie-mccann-answers/51e8dea1-cd59-4de2-9ac1-c4910ee9c457)

"Scotland Yard's six-year investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance was a poisoned chalice laced with critical errors because of a high level agenda to not interrogate the child's parents, according to a former UK detective.
The explosive revelations were made by retired Metropolitan Police homicide cop Colin Sutton, who at one time was touted as a possible candidate to lead Operation Grange and the search for Maddie, now missing for 10 years.
Operation Grange's narrow remit to focus only on the theory that the four-year-old was abducted from the family's holiday apartment in Portugal was unusual and a "missed opportunity""


Total BS ...or do you beleive if its in the paper its true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 17, 2020, 11:15:28 PM
We'll have no personal attacks against Davel.  Thank You.
Would THAT BE LIMITING MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH?  Yes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 18, 2020, 10:21:53 AM
I believe in Madeleine's case and probably in others, Amaral has manipulated the evidence to suit his speculations.  Sometimes making up the headlines to suit his interpretation of the evidence and using unsuspecting journalists to that end.

So I agree his methods do smack of laziness (as well as an awful lot of other things) and if the purpose of justice is to keep offenders off the streets and unable to target new victims, I think it is a highly inefficient way of doing things.


I believe in Madeleine's case and probably in others, Amaral has manipulated the evidence to suit his speculations.  Sometimes making up the headlines to suit his interpretation of the evidence and using unsuspecting journalists to that end.


Isn't that what the Germans are doing...the thing about that though seems they know nothing about the case in full
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 18, 2020, 10:36:22 AM
Would THAT BE LIMITING MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH?  Yes.

its complying with the rules...personal attacks are against forum rules. when will posters such as yourself understand that freedom of speech is not an absolute right...it has to..and does have limitations.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 18, 2020, 10:37:35 AM

I believe in Madeleine's case and probably in others, Amaral has manipulated the evidence to suit his speculations.  Sometimes making up the headlines to suit his interpretation of the evidence and using unsuspecting journalists to that end.


Isn't that what the Germans are doing...the thing about that though seems they know nothing about the case in full

I think the Germans have a far far better understanding of the case and the evidence than amaral did
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 18, 2020, 11:12:36 AM
Thhey did then everything seemed to change.

just one little snip

As time went by, we noticed that a certain number of the police officers sent to Portugal were poorly informed about the progress of the investigation. One of them who - like the majority - was coming to Portugal for the first time, was wearing a green and yellow rubber wrist band, bought for £2, which he played with nervously. The inscription read, "Look for Madeleine." Some of his colleagues told him that he would soon get rid of it. As a matter of fact, he took it off as soon as he got properly into the investigation and he had learned about the evidence placing doubt on the theory of abduction.

So again,  he is saying the British agreed with his theory.    So why did he say when he was taken off the case that it was pressure from the British to follow the abduction theory?   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 18, 2020, 11:14:46 AM

I believe in Madeleine's case and probably in others, Amaral has manipulated the evidence to suit his speculations.  Sometimes making up the headlines to suit his interpretation of the evidence and using unsuspecting journalists to that end.


Isn't that what the Germans are doing...the thing about that though seems they know nothing about the case in full

The Germans don't appear to have any qualms about facing their audience and giving it to them straight.

There is no comparison with the sneaky, underhand tactics using journalists who were fed just enough truth to make the lies leaked to them credible and designed to put the chosen patsy well on the back foot.

That is neither investigation or justice   It is the kangaroo court of internet - public opinion - and lies.  The Germans haven't sunk as low as that and I doubt they would ever contemplate doing so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 18, 2020, 11:45:45 AM
As a matter of fact Eleanor is one of the most even handed mods ever on this forum.  You should treasure her.

Back on topic now please.  Goncalo Amaral

I take that has a tacit admission your're not,thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 18, 2020, 12:23:13 PM
The Germans don't appear to have any qualms about facing their audience and giving it to them straight.

There is no comparison with the sneaky, underhand tactics using journalists who were fed just enough truth to make the lies leaked to them credible and designed to put the chosen patsy well on the back foot.

That is neither investigation or justice   It is the kangaroo court of internet - public opinion - and lies.  The Germans haven't sunk as low as that and I doubt they would ever contemplate doing so.

Like Sandra F ? 

For me once a journalist has been proven to be gullible they lose all credibility.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 12:49:01 PM
Total BS ...

That's not a great argument Dave!! Perhaps you could explain which bit of the report you don't believe is accurate... In the meantime here's some more quotes from Sutton:

 The "crucial phrase", as Sutton calls it, in the Operation Grange remit was a line stating the review would be carried out "as if the abduction occurred in the UK".
That meant Kate and Gerry McCann, despite several concerning inconsistencies in their witness statements, were not to be looked at, Sutton said.
"It was almost this unspoken elephant in the room," he told nine.com.au.
"The rest of [the remit] is really of little consequence after that because that's sort of saying … we are only treating this as an abduction and we are not looking at any other scenario."

 "The PJ have never cleared anyone," Sutton said. Ceasing the investigation "just meant they couldn't find enough evidence to proceed against them. Their view is that the parents are certainly not eliminated. Also any kind of investigation of murder or akin to murder the other place you need to eliminate early on is those that last saw the victim alive.In this case you've got essentially the same group of people who are both close to the victim and the last to see her alive. I'd always want to start with that. I don't understand why that hasn't been done [by Operation Grange], because it would appear to be in everyone's interest."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 12:52:41 PM
I think the Germans have a far far better understanding of the case and the evidence than amaral did

Which evidence do they "understand better" than the PJ, exactly? And what are you basing this deduction on?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 12:55:58 PM
That's not a great argument Dave!! Perhaps you could explain which bit of the report you don't believe is accurate... In the meantime here's some more quotes from Sutton:

 The "crucial phrase", as Sutton calls it, in the Operation Grange remit was a line stating the review would be carried out "as if the abduction occurred in the UK".
That meant Kate and Gerry McCann, despite several concerning inconsistencies in their witness statements, were not to be looked at, Sutton said.
"It was almost this unspoken elephant in the room," he told nine.com.au.
"The rest of [the remit] is really of little consequence after that because that's sort of saying … we are only treating this as an abduction and we are not looking at any other scenario."

 "The PJ have never cleared anyone," Sutton said. Ceasing the investigation "just meant they couldn't find enough evidence to proceed against them. Their view is that the parents are certainly not eliminated. Also any kind of investigation of murder or akin to murder the other place you need to eliminate early on is those that last saw the victim alive.In this case you've got essentially the same group of people who are both close to the victim and the last to see her alive. I'd always want to start with that. I don't understand why that hasn't been done [by Operation Grange], because it would appear to be in everyone's interest."

Colin Sutton never did know what had been done.  Nor do we know who the High Ranking Police Officer was.

Anyone can quote Anonymous Sources.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 01:01:29 PM
Colin Sutton never did know what had been done.  Nor do we know who the High Ranking Police Officer was.

Anyone can quote Anonymous Sources.

Assistant Commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police Mark Rowley denied Scotland Yard had a closed mind to the possibility of Kate and Gerry McCann’s involvement.
"The involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese," Asst Com Rowley said during a media briefing.
"We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation."
When asked if Kate and Gerry McCann had ever been questioned as potential suspects by Scotland Yard detectives, Asst Com Rowley replied: "No."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 18, 2020, 01:08:29 PM
Assistant Commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police Mark Rowley denied Scotland Yard had a closed mind to the possibility of Kate and Gerry McCann’s involvement.
"The involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese," Asst Com Rowley said during a media briefing.
"We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation."
When asked if Kate and Gerry McCann had ever been questioned as potential suspects by Scotland Yard detectives, Asst Com Rowley replied: "No."

If you listen to the recording Rowley said no even before Brunt finished the question.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 18, 2020, 01:14:04 PM
Assistant Commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police Mark Rowley denied Scotland Yard had a closed mind to the possibility of Kate and Gerry McCann’s involvement.
"The involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese," Asst Com Rowley said during a media briefing.
"We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation."
When asked if Kate and Gerry McCann had ever been questioned as potential suspects by Scotland Yard detectives, Asst Com Rowley replied: "No."

they have not been questioned as potential suspects that doesnt mean they have not been questioned as witnesses
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 01:15:16 PM
they have not been questioned as potential suspects that doesnt mean they have not been questioned as witnesses

Exactly.  Having been repeated ad infinitum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 18, 2020, 01:15:30 PM
Which evidence do they "understand better" than the PJ, exactly? And what are you basing this deduction on?

amral didnt understand the dog or DNA evidence...he thought it proved Maddie died in the apartment....I dont see the Germans being that foolish
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 18, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
That's not a great argument Dave!! Perhaps you could explain which bit of the report you don't believe is accurate... In the meantime here's some more quotes from Sutton:

 The "crucial phrase", as Sutton calls it, in the Operation Grange remit was a line stating the review would be carried out "as if the abduction occurred in the UK".
That meant Kate and Gerry McCann, despite several concerning inconsistencies in their witness statements, were not to be looked at, Sutton said.
"It was almost this unspoken elephant in the room," he told nine.com.au.
"The rest of [the remit] is really of little consequence after that because that's sort of saying … we are only treating this as an abduction and we are not looking at any other scenario."

 "The PJ have never cleared anyone," Sutton said. Ceasing the investigation "just meant they couldn't find enough evidence to proceed against them. Their view is that the parents are certainly not eliminated. Also any kind of investigation of murder or akin to murder the other place you need to eliminate early on is those that last saw the victim alive.In this case you've got essentially the same group of people who are both close to the victim and the last to see her alive. I'd always want to start with that. I don't understand why that hasn't been done [by Operation Grange], because it would appear to be in everyone's interest."

If you listen to what Sutton was actually told...no one mentioned the McCanns to him. Sutton doent know  what SY have or have not done...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 18, 2020, 01:59:41 PM
amral didnt understand the dog or DNA evidence...he thought it proved Maddie died in the apartment....I dont see the Germans being that foolish

Dont forget 19 components might be proof in Germany it seems.

Didnt an officer say he has arested people for less in UK ...IIRC
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 18, 2020, 02:06:02 PM
Dont forget 19 components might be proof in Germany it seems.

Didnt an officer say he has arested people for less in UK ...IIRC

as I understand   LCN DNA isnt accepted in german courts. ...plus its a mixed sample so proves nothing. You are making the same mistake as amaral. As for your claim....I think the source is the convicted liar again
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 02:10:06 PM

If 19 Components is enough then we could all be in trouble.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 18, 2020, 02:39:41 PM
as I understand   LCN DNA isnt accepted in german courts. ...plus its a mixed sample so proves nothing. You are making the same mistake as amaral. As for your claim....I think the source is the convicted liar again

Well we do know the source on here ...you...wasnt there.

No one else as said the TOTL is full of lies apart from the mccs.

Again three judges didnt agree with that.

also adding the mccs were not cleared of being involved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 02:45:01 PM
Exactly.  Having been repeated ad infinitum.

The point being in most cases of missing children the close family are involved therefore the questioning should be to rule them out. Ruling them out before the questions is poor policing imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 02:55:39 PM
The point being in most cases of missing children the close family are involved therefore the questioning should be to rule them out. Ruling them out before the questions is poor policing imo.

I was referring to the number of times that this has been discussed on this Forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 18, 2020, 03:03:46 PM
The point being in most cases of missing children the close family are involved therefore the questioning should be to rule them out. Ruling them out before the questions is poor policing imo.

The McCanns were ruled out based on the evidence.....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 03:08:04 PM
amral didnt understand the dog or DNA evidence...he thought it proved Maddie died in the apartment....I dont see the Germans being that foolish

What’s the benchmark for DNA markers matching to presume a match in Germany? I may be wrong but 15 might swing it.... yes yes I know there was more than one contributor.... all the more reason to get Dr Perlin on the case, imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 03:09:47 PM
What’s the benchmark for DNA markers matching to presume a match in Germany? I may be wrong but 15 might swing it.... yes yes I know there was more than one contributor.... all the more reason to get Dr Perlin on the case, imo.

You pay him then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 03:12:38 PM
The McCanns were ruled out based on the evidence.....


They were ruled out on the basis of the PJ work according to Rowley. The McCann supporters fail to see the irony!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 03:17:04 PM

They were ruled out on the basis of the PJ work according to Rowley. The McCann supporters fail to see the irony!!

I presume that Scotland Yard can read.  And after The PJ tried so hard to stitch up The McCanns and failed miserably it must have been pretty obvious that The McCanns weren't involved.

Now that is the real Irony.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 18, 2020, 03:22:33 PM
The point being in most cases of missing children the close family are involved therefore the questioning should be to rule them out. Ruling them out before the questions is poor policing imo.

I believe not fully investigating those nearest to a missing child to rule them in or to rule them out of involvement is in my understanding elementary and is what happens when competent investigators are in charge.

In combination with the senior investigating officer making his mind up about who was guilty before it was possible for him to know anything about what had actually happened was a recipe for disaster.

Then for the senior officer in charge of the investigation to attempt to make the evidence fit his chosen perpetrators before even knowing what the evidence was ... is in my opinion an absolute recipe for disaster.
Which is exactly what it proved to be.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 03:25:04 PM
I believe not fully investigating those nearest to a missing child to rule them in or to rule them out of involvement is in my understanding elementary and is what happens when competent investigators are in charge.

In combination with the senior investigating officer making his mind up about who was guilty before it was possible for him to know anything about what had actually happened was a recipe for disaster.

Then for the senior officer in charge of the investigation to attempt to make the evidence fit his chosen perpetrators before even knowing what the evidence was ... is in my opinion an absolute recipe for disaster.
Which is exactly what it proved to be.

Im well aware that is your opinion... but the same critique can be made of Operation Grange.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 18, 2020, 03:34:33 PM
The point being in most cases of missing children the close family are involved therefore the questioning should be to rule them out. Ruling them out before the questions is poor policing imo.

Have you any idea of how ridiculous that post actually is?  Ruling anyone in before checking the evidence required for ruling them in or ruling them out is not only poor policing it is not fit to be called policing at all.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 18, 2020, 03:37:54 PM
Dont forget 19 components might be proof in Germany it seems.

Didnt an officer say he has arested people for less in UK ...IIRC

There were 19 components but as the scientist said,  Madeleine shares her DNA with her parents and siblings and also the general public.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 03:49:58 PM
There were 19 components but as the scientist said,  Madeleine shares her DNA with her parents and siblings and also the general public.

Note;  General Public.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 04:07:39 PM
You pay him then.

As you know payment is the problem. SY need to hand over the data.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 18, 2020, 04:17:48 PM
You pay him then.

I read he offered to do it for free.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 04:21:21 PM
I read he offered to do it for free.

Only the initial examination.  He expects to be paid for the rest of the work.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 04:26:14 PM
Have you any idea of how ridiculous that post actually is?  Ruling anyone in before checking the evidence required for ruling them in or ruling them out is not only poor policing it is not fit to be called policing at all.

Perhaps I worded it badly but...... "Sutton, who led more than 30 successful murder investigations, said it was well-rehearsed, best police practice in cases such as Madeleine McCann to eliminate those closest to the child first. "
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 04:27:28 PM
There were 19 components but as the scientist said,  Madeleine shares her DNA with her parents and siblings and also the general public.

Dr Perlin might help here!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 04:30:08 PM
Only the initial examination.  He expects to be paid for the rest of the work.

I suggest you listen to him again... he says he'll have an answer in two weeks and do it pro bono.... In any case why has the cost suddenly become the issue... I bet even if he charged the money would be raised if you want to spare tax payers any more expense after the staggering amount spent on Operation Grange.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 04:40:48 PM
I suggest you listen to him again... he says he'll have an answer in two weeks and do it pro bono.... In any case why has the cost suddenly become the issue... I bet even if he charged the money would be raised if you want to spare tax payers any more expense after the staggering amount spent on Operation Grange.

I'm not interested in The Tax Payers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 18, 2020, 05:27:02 PM
Perhaps I worded it badly but...... "Sutton, who led more than 30 successful murder investigations, said it was well-rehearsed, best police practice in cases such as Madeleine McCann to eliminate those closest to the child first. "

SY have done that...even the new PJ team said not suspects and no evidence against them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 18, 2020, 05:54:52 PM
I'm not interested in The Tax Payers.

Not being one in the UK I’m sure you’re not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 05:59:58 PM
Not being one in the UK I’m sure you’re not.

Exactement.  But I don't pay tax in France either because I am destitute.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
I'm not interested in The Tax Payers.

Ahhh yeah I forgot you were across the Channel  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 06:24:48 PM
SY have done that...

cite please.... or is that more speculation and opinion?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 06:27:26 PM
Exactement.  But I don't pay tax in France either because I am destitute.

If your laptop breaks... I can sort you out with a cheap replacement!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 06:31:20 PM
If your laptop breaks... I can sort you out with a cheap replacement!!

That's why I'm destitute.  I just had to buy a new MacBook Air.

But thanks for the offer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 18, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
cite please.... or is that more speculation and opinion?

I do have a cite but as Im waitng for three from you ....I'll just wait for the time being
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 18, 2020, 06:37:24 PM
That's why I'm destitute.  I just had to buy a new MacBook Air.

But thanks for the offer.

Nice computer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 18, 2020, 06:38:29 PM
That's why I'm destitute.  I just had to buy a new MacBook Air.

But thanks for the offer.

Thats what you get for overpriced geer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 06:42:45 PM
Nice computer.

Yep.  I'm an unrepentant Apple Freak.  But my previous two lasted 9 years each.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 06:49:01 PM
Thats what you get for overpriced geer.

chaqu'un a son goût...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 18, 2020, 06:57:17 PM
That's why I'm destitute.  I just had to buy a new MacBook Air.

But thanks for the offer.

Ahhh I can't compete with a new MacBook Air.... I buy broken lappys from eBay and fix em up (but new MacBook Air is a different league)... Anyway sorry to digress........ Goncalo Amaral................
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 18, 2020, 07:00:19 PM
Ahhh I can't compete with a new MacBook Air.... I buy broken lappys from eBay and fix em up (but new MacBook Air is a different league)... Anyway sorry to digress........ Goncalo Amaral................

I truly admire people who know their way around a computer. I cracked my iPad screen and tried to fix it myself.....suffice to say I ended up buying a new iPad.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 07:03:05 PM
Ahhh I can't compete with a new MacBook Air.... I buy broken lappys from eBay and fix em up (but new MacBook Air is a different league)... Anyway sorry to digress........ Goncalo Amaral................

It was kind of you to offer and I am certain that you meant it.

Thank God for The Food Bank is all I can say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 18, 2020, 08:31:47 PM
It was kind of you to offer and I am certain that you meant it.

Thank God for The Food Bank is all I can say.

I wish I lived closer Eleanor then perhaps I could help.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 18, 2020, 08:46:14 PM
I wish I lived closer Eleanor then perhaps I could help.

That was kind as well.

Actually, you and I would probably have a high old time, if you found rural France as fascinating as I do.  The Summer Fetes are a laugh a minute and the conversation is riveting.

I have never been a great spender so I am not as badly off as I sometimes kid on.  And France has been very good to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 18, 2020, 08:50:23 PM
Dont forget 19 components might be proof in Germany it seems.

Didnt an officer say he has arested people for less in UK ...IIRC

Kizzy, have you actually read the Lowe report?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 18, 2020, 11:36:37 PM
That was kind as well.

Actually, you and I would probably have a high old time, if you found rural France as fascinating as I do.  The Summer Fetes are a laugh a minute and the conversation is riveting.

I have never been a great spender so I am not as badly off as I sometimes kid on.  And France has been very good to me.

It would be an absolute hoot Eleanor. Who knows one day if I’m passing your way I might just pop in to say hello.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 19, 2020, 09:57:18 AM

If anything shows the absolute ineptitude of Amaral's conduct of Madeleine's case it has to be the revelation that the Portuguese already had a file on Brueckner giving them enough information to make him a person of interest  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg610539#msg610539

Yet not only did a person with his profile who was resident in Luz not appear on the police radar ... Amaral never once looked beyond the involvement of Madeleine's parents.

In my opinion Amaral's single minded campaign of destruction regarding them ever since verges on criminal negligence.

The local burglars questioned in 2014 were overlooked by Amaral's investigation ... as quite obviously were others who should have merited being looked at with as much vigour as were the parents and their friends.
Brueckner is the proof of that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 19, 2020, 10:00:16 AM
I truly admire people who know their way around a computer. I cracked my iPad screen and tried to fix it myself.....suffice to say I ended up buying a new iPad.

Thanks for the compliment...i'm repairing  a couple of laptops at the moment. All you need to do is use google/youtube...theres loads of info there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 19, 2020, 10:11:46 AM
It would be an absolute hoot Eleanor. Who knows one day if I’m passing your way I might just pop in to say hello.

You would be welcome.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 19, 2020, 02:28:38 PM
Today on the forum http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg610642#msg610642

Is this the "interference" of which Amaral has complained about over the years ...


Snip
BRITISH police warned Portuguese detectives Madeleine McCann’s disappearance could be linked to a German-based child-trafficker - just days after she vanished.

In the immediate aftermath of her vanishing, the Serious Organised Crime Agency sent an alert marked “urgent” to their counterparts working the case on the Algarve.

In it they urged those searching for Madeleine to probe links to a German sex offender whose surname was given as “Meissner” but who was known to use aliases.

It also said he was linked to other paedophiles - one of whom was named as Frankel.

The memo said the sex-offenders were involved in trafficking.


A source close to the case said these details now take on “huge significance” given the events of the past seven days.

Not least because police in Germany are actively investigating the scenario that Christian B - a known German paedophile - was behind the disappearance of Madeleine.

“This looks like the latest in what is emerging as a string of missed opportunities to properly investigate the case,” the source said.

“It shows that in the immediate aftermath of the disappearance the police in the UK were linking it, straight away, to a ring which led back to Germany.

“This development throws up a lot of questions that need to be answered. Not least who were these men? Were they ever traced? And did they know or have any links to Christian B?

"Even now both of these individuals must be found and spoken to because they could hold vital clues about what happened to Madeleine."

Details of the potential blunder comes amid mounting criticism of the Portuguese police’s handling of the case.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11804930/madeleine-cops-warned-german-based-child-trafficker/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 19, 2020, 02:40:15 PM
Today on the forum http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg610642#msg610642

Is this the "interference" of which Amaral has complained about over the years ...


Snip
BRITISH police warned Portuguese detectives Madeleine McCann’s disappearance could be linked to a German-based child-trafficker - just days after she vanished.

In the immediate aftermath of her vanishing, the Serious Organised Crime Agency sent an alert marked “urgent” to their counterparts working the case on the Algarve.

In it they urged those searching for Madeleine to probe links to a German sex offender whose surname was given as “Meissner” but who was known to use aliases.

It also said he was linked to other paedophiles - one of whom was named as Frankel.

The memo said the sex-offenders were involved in trafficking.


A source close to the case said these details now take on “huge significance” given the events of the past seven days.

Not least because police in Germany are actively investigating the scenario that Christian B - a known German paedophile - was behind the disappearance of Madeleine.

“This looks like the latest in what is emerging as a string of missed opportunities to properly investigate the case,” the source said.

“It shows that in the immediate aftermath of the disappearance the police in the UK were linking it, straight away, to a ring which led back to Germany.

“This development throws up a lot of questions that need to be answered. Not least who were these men? Were they ever traced? And did they know or have any links to Christian B?

"Even now both of these individuals must be found and spoken to because they could hold vital clues about what happened to Madeleine."

Details of the potential blunder comes amid mounting criticism of the Portuguese police’s handling of the case.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11804930/madeleine-cops-warned-german-based-child-trafficker/

Well OG have had 9 years to find and speak to these men. Have they ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 19, 2020, 03:10:46 PM
Well OG have had 9 years to find and speak to these men. Have they ?

Apparently not.  It is a Portuguese Case.  Or so we have been told, frequently.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 19, 2020, 03:22:45 PM
So just what have been doing all these years ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2020, 03:33:02 PM
Apparently not.  It is a Portuguese Case.  Or so we have been told, frequently.

That never stopped them before.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 19, 2020, 04:23:39 PM
That never stopped them before.

Please don't be silly.  The UK has no Jurisdiction, so it is pointless to pretend that they have.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2020, 04:43:58 PM
Please don't be silly.  The UK has no Jurisdiction, so it is pointless to pretend that they have.

LP seem to have accepted every sighting they were given and sent them to Portugal. The PJ were literally buried by them imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 19, 2020, 04:48:34 PM
LP seem to have accepted every sighting they were given and sent them to Portugal. The PJ were literally buried by them imo.

Oh Dear.  Poor old them.  So The PJ didn't have the time to deal with this?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 19, 2020, 05:14:18 PM
LP seem to have accepted every sighting they were given and sent them to Portugal. The PJ were literally buried by them imo.
There is absolutely no defence for you to suggest that the PJ and Amaral were overwhelmed by the volume of information coming in unless you can prove they bothered to check it.  Did they act on the information they were given in the very early days after Madeleine disappeared.
Amaral never mentions any of it in his book ... only that his waking thoughts on the 4th May lay in an entirely different direction.

The link provided https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11804930/madeleine-cops-warned-german-based-child-trafficker/ refers to information received from the British Serious Organised Crime Agency which was marked as "urgent".

The Portuguese ... therefore Amaral ... were alerted "in the immediate aftermath" of Madeleine's disappearance.

Therefore it is not a case of being wise after the event.  Amaral and the Portuguese were warned by fellow professional crime fighters of a situation which chillingly reflects today's happenings concerning Brueckner.

It appears that target was neglected for the soft target represented by Madeleine's mother and exploited to the nth degree by Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2020, 05:15:11 PM
Today on the forum http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg610642#msg610642

Is this the "interference" of which Amaral has complained about over the years ...


Snip
BRITISH police warned Portuguese detectives Madeleine McCann’s disappearance could be linked to a German-based child-trafficker - just days after she vanished.

In the immediate aftermath of her vanishing, the Serious Organised Crime Agency sent an alert marked “urgent” to their counterparts working the case on the Algarve.

In it they urged those searching for Madeleine to probe links to a German sex offender whose surname was given as “Meissner” but who was known to use aliases.

It also said he was linked to other paedophiles - one of whom was named as Frankel.

The memo said the sex-offenders were involved in trafficking.


A source close to the case said these details now take on “huge significance” given the events of the past seven days.

Not least because police in Germany are actively investigating the scenario that Christian B - a known German paedophile - was behind the disappearance of Madeleine.

“This looks like the latest in what is emerging as a string of missed opportunities to properly investigate the case,” the source said.

“It shows that in the immediate aftermath of the disappearance the police in the UK were linking it, straight away, to a ring which led back to Germany.

“This development throws up a lot of questions that need to be answered. Not least who were these men? Were they ever traced? And did they know or have any links to Christian B?

"Even now both of these individuals must be found and spoken to because they could hold vital clues about what happened to Madeleine."

Details of the potential blunder comes amid mounting criticism of the Portuguese police’s handling of the case.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11804930/madeleine-cops-warned-german-based-child-trafficker/

Almost correct, but not quite...action was taken;

(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A5_5/apenso5_vol_5_p969.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 19, 2020, 05:18:49 PM
Almost correct, but not quite...action was taken;

(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A5_5/apenso5_vol_5_p969.jpg)

Confirmation the information was received by the Portuguese and Amaral;  do you have a cite detailing what they actually did with it if anything?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2020, 05:24:57 PM
Confirmation the information was received by the Portuguese and Amaral;  do you have a cite detailing what they actually did with it if anything?

The Germans were asked about these men by Interpol. What do you think the PJ should have done, asked them again?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 19, 2020, 05:36:13 PM
The Germans were asked about these men by Interpol. What do you think the PJ should have done, asked them again?

Apparently by Leicestershire Police.

Where is there anything in Portuguese?  Or any indication the Portuguese took note of the information given to them.

Amaral targeted Kate and Gerry dating from the morning after Madeleine's disappearance and for many months after that.  From that I would say he did nothing about the German paedophile angle ... prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 19, 2020, 05:39:18 PM
If Leicester Police had already asked , why would the Poruguese want to repeat i?
At that point they & LP were supposed to be working together
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 19, 2020, 05:45:37 PM
The Germans were asked about these men by Interpol. What do you think the PJ should have done, asked them again?

Do we know if the Germans got back to them ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 19, 2020, 05:46:43 PM
If Leicester Police had already asked , why would the Poruguese want to repeat i?
At that point they & LP were supposed to be working together

Really?  I must have missed that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 19, 2020, 06:18:35 PM
If Leicester Police had already asked , why would the Poruguese want to repeat i?
At that point they & LP were supposed to be working together

Hmmm ... wasn't that the lot Amaral put a tail on and had followed ... all in the spirit of 'working together' of course.

Ye gods ... just how paranoid was this man?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 19, 2020, 07:09:19 PM
“I have been investigating the Madeleleine case for 13 years.

No prejudice.

Not even theses.

I interviewed the McCanns several times.

I asked them how they justified the smell of a corpse in the apartment and in the car and the blood detected by English dogs?
Yes, it was me.
As it is public.
I read all the files.
All reports.
And during all these years I have heard the greatest nonsense about what I have seen happening with my own eyes.

I saw, incredulous, how easy it is to proliferate lies just in order to justify the thesis of a retired inspector for having said in public what he never managed to prove in court.
But in public, we can only speak what we can prove. And this is true for everyone, ”

Sandra Felgueiras

https://www.hiper.fm/sandra-felgueiras-critica-goncalo-amaral-no-caso-maddie-so-podemos-falar-o-que-podemos-provar/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 19, 2020, 07:58:26 PM
“I have been investigating the Madeleleine case for 13 years.

No prejudice.

Not even theses.

I interviewed the McCanns several times.

I asked them how they justified the smell of a corpse in the apartment and in the car and the blood detected by English dogs?
Yes, it was me.
As it is public.
I read all the files.
All reports.
And during all these years I have heard the greatest nonsense about what I have seen happening with my own eyes.

I saw, incredulous, how easy it is to proliferate lies just in order to justify the thesis of a retired inspector for having said in public what he never managed to prove in court.
But in public, we can only speak what we can prove. And this is true for everyone, ”

Sandra Felgueiras

https://www.hiper.fm/sandra-felgueiras-critica-goncalo-amaral-no-caso-maddie-so-podemos-falar-o-que-podemos-provar/

If only she hadn’t waited years after the release of the files to have her epiphany she might sound less desperate for people to believe her and people might be more convinced.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 19, 2020, 08:12:28 PM

Well, Portugal is in such a mess now, although it probably always has been.  But Amaral kick started the Exposure because he didn't know when to stop.

We really ought to be grateful to him.  And so should Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2020, 08:46:06 PM
Apparently by Leicestershire Police.

Where is there anything in Portuguese?  Or any indication the Portuguese took note of the information given to them.

Amaral targeted Kate and Gerry dating from the morning after Madeleine's disappearance and for many months after that.  From that I would say he did nothing about the German paedophile angle ... prove me wrong.

The Sun had only one aim in printing that story; to denigrate the PJ. They're a disgrace in my opinion and shouldn't be claiming to be a newspaper, they're just gossip mongers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 19, 2020, 08:48:33 PM
The Sun had only one aim in printing that story; to denigrate the PJ. They're a disgrace in my opinion and shouldn't be claiming to be a newspaper, they're just gossip mongers.


I think the initial nvestigation was  a disgrace...on thi soccasion the Sun is simply reporting the truth
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 19, 2020, 08:48:55 PM
Well, Portugal is in such a mess now, although it probably always has been.  But Amaral kick started the Exposure because he didn't know when to stop.

We really ought to be grateful to him.  And so should Portugal.

Well Portugal has had 1,689 Covid deaths compared to over 45,000 in the UK, so at least they have something to be thankful for.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2020, 08:55:23 PM

I think the initial nvestigation was  a disgrace...on thi soccasion the Sun is simply reporting the truth

No it isn't, it's doing what it usually does and twisting the truth to support it's agenda imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 19, 2020, 09:07:44 PM
No it isn't, it's doing what it usually does and twisting the truth to support it's agenda imo.

Exactly what truth do you think has been "twisted" in this Sun article ... and in what manner do you think it has?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2020, 09:55:29 PM
Exactly what truth do you think has been "twisted" in this Sun article ... and in what manner do you think it has?

Are you serious? They criticised the PJ for doing nothing, and didn't tell people that Interpol had already acted on it, asking the Germans to check their databases. What the German response was no-one knows, because Interpol didn't share.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 19, 2020, 10:16:18 PM
Are you serious? They criticised the PJ for doing nothing, and didn't tell people that Interpol had already acted on it, asking the Germans to check their databases. What the German response was no-one knows, because Interpol didn't share.

I'm not entirely sure what you think it is that Interpol does.  In my opinion Interpol is an enabler and a communications hub for its members worldwide.  Beyond that it doesn't actually take any action of the sort you appear to imply.

What action did Amaral take to fulfil the Interpol mandate of informing the police forces of member nations of what was going on under their noses in their own back yard so that they could take action on it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 20, 2020, 08:20:25 AM
I'm not entirely sure what you think it is that Interpol does.  In my opinion Interpol is an enabler and a communications hub for its members worldwide.  Beyond that it doesn't actually take any action of the sort you appear to imply.

What action did Amaral take to fulfil the Interpol mandate of informing the police forces of member nations of what was going on under their noses in their own back yard so that they could take action on it?

On this occasion it looks like SOCA via Interpol asked the German Police to look through their records for information on these men. LP were informed of the action because it was Crimestoppers who received their names. The PJ were informed but weren't involved, it was a Btitish initiative. Had the German police found anything interesting they would have replied to the British, because they were the ones who asked.

I don't know if there is a mandate such as you describe. Do you have a cite for that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 20, 2020, 08:29:26 AM
On this occasion it looks like SOCA via Interpol asked the German Police to look through their records for information on these men. LP were informed of the action because it was Crimestoppers who received their names. The PJ were informed but weren't involved, it was a Btitish initiative. Had the German police found anything interesting they would have replied to the British, because they were the ones who asked.

I don't know if there is a mandate such as you describe. Do you have a cite for that?

It's on This Forum somewhere because that is where I read it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 20, 2020, 09:40:45 AM
On this occasion it looks like SOCA via Interpol asked the German Police to look through their records for information on these men. LP were informed of the action because it was Crimestoppers who received their names. The PJ were informed but weren't involved, it was a Btitish initiative. Had the German police found anything interesting they would have replied to the British, because they were the ones who asked.

I don't know if there is a mandate such as you describe. Do you have a cite for that?

Madeleine McCann's case was in the jurisdiction of Portugal and was jealously guarded as such by Amaral who put Leicestershire police under surveillance such was his notion of cooperation.

What did Amaral do with the information?

Obviously nothing that you can find ... so in all probability ... nothing.  Much as his investigation did nothing to find information in the Portuguese files in relation to Brueckner and whatever he might have been doing around Luz when Madeleine disappeared.

Snip
Mugshots of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner dating back two decades prove Portuguese police knew about his sordid past but still dismissed him as a suspect.

The series of pictures were taken in the Algarve in July 1999 – eight years before the youngster was abducted from Praia da Luz.

Brueckner, then 22, was being extradited back to Germany to be sent to jail for sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl in a playground in 1994.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538057/Portuguese-police-mugshots-Christian-Brueckner-1999-reveal-officers-knew-sordid-past.html

Playgrounds seem to feature quite a bit in Brueckner's history ... as in Sao Bartolomeu de Messines for example, where he was apprehended by parents and held until the police arrived but never made it to trial because the case was archived.  https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-confronted-brit-22382594
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 20, 2020, 09:47:02 AM
On this occasion it looks like SOCA via Interpol asked the German Police to look through their records for information on these men. LP were informed of the action because it was Crimestoppers who received their names. The PJ were informed but weren't involved, it was a Btitish initiative. Had the German police found anything interesting they would have replied to the British, because they were the ones who asked.

I don't know if there is a mandate such as you describe. Do you have a cite for that?

Just use whatever search engine you normally use and I am sure you will find the information you require ... I Googled it so can verify the information on INTERPOL is not tucked away in some obscure fora or other ... there is a tremendous amount of it, so you shouldn't have any great difficulty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 20, 2020, 10:32:44 AM
Just use whatever search engine you normally use and I am sure you will find the information you require ... I Googled it so can verify the information on INTERPOL is not tucked away in some obscure fora or other ... there is a tremendous amount of it, so you shouldn't have any great difficulty.

You referred to an Interpol mandate ordering them to 'inform the police forces of member nations of what was going on under their noses in their own back yard so that they could take action on it'

I can find nothing suggesting that there is any such mandate, which is why I requested a cite. Your refusal to provide one is noted and will definitely affect my response the next time you ask me for a cite.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 20, 2020, 11:53:27 AM
You referred to an Interpol mandate ordering them to 'inform the police forces of member nations of what was going on under their noses in their own back yard so that they could take action on it'

I can find nothing suggesting that there is any such mandate, which is why I requested a cite. Your refusal to provide one is noted and will definitely affect my response the next time you ask me for a cite.

I suggested you use a search engine of your choice for the simple reason that there is far too much information about Interpol on the internet to explain how it works to someone who is totally ignorant of how the organisation actually works.

In the original post in which you started this nonsense you quite clearly had no understanding of exactly what it is that Interpol actually does.

Snip
Are you serious? They criticised the PJ for doing nothing, and didn't tell people that Interpol had already acted on it, asking the Germans to check their databases. What the German response was no-one knows, because Interpol didn't share.  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg610841#msg610841


Interpol actually does share ... it is its whole raison d'être ... and if you are truly interested in finding out about it and not just an excuse to demand meaningless cites to order ... you really need to inform yourself - I can't do it for you.

I simply typed into Google "INTERPOL'S mandate" and the very first in a long line was ...

Article 2 provides that the Interpol mandate is 'to ensure and promote the widest possible mutual assistance between all criminal police authorities within the limits of the laws existing in the different countries and in in the spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights'22.

Further reading reveals ...

Adopted in 1956, the Constitution is our main legal instrument. It establishes the fundamental rules and principles by which the Organization operates. It defines the structure and roles of each INTERPOL body together with our mandate, which is:https://www.interpol.int/en/Who-we-are/Legal-framework/Legal-documents


As I said earlier Interpol doesn't actually do ... it's communication, expertise and assistance enables its member countries worldwide to do




Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 20, 2020, 12:35:44 PM
Madeleine McCann's case was in the jurisdiction of Portugal and was jealously guarded as such by Amaral who put Leicestershire police under surveillance such was his notion of cooperation.

What did Amaral do with the information?

Obviously nothing that you can find ... so in all probability ... nothing.  Much as his investigation did nothing to find information in the Portuguese files in relation to Brueckner and whatever he might have been doing around Luz when Madeleine disappeared.

Snip


Was Amaral told about the Gaspars from LP ?, Bank details of the parents?

Back in the UK the parents had the run of their show. They got off scot free with leaving their children alone ,with one to disappear with no recourse at all.  And Amaral is the bad guy in this?
Mugshots of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner dating back two decades prove Portuguese police knew about his sordid past but still dismissed him as a suspect.

The series of pictures were taken in the Algarve in July 1999 – eight years before the youngster was abducted from Praia da Luz.

Brueckner, then 22, was being extradited back to Germany to be sent to jail for sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl in a playground in 1994.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538057/Portuguese-police-mugshots-Christian-Brueckner-1999-reveal-officers-knew-sordid-past.html

Playgrounds seem to feature quite a bit in Brueckner's history ... as in Sao Bartolomeu de Messines for example, where he was apprehended by parents and held until the police arrived but never made it to trial because the case was archived.  https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-confronted-brit-22382594
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 20, 2020, 12:47:22 PM
I suggested you use a search engine of your choice for the simple reason that there is far too much information about Interpol on the internet to explain how it works to someone who is totally ignorant of how the organisation actually works.

In the original post in which you started this nonsense you quite clearly had no understanding of exactly what it is that Interpol actually does.

Snip
Are you serious? They criticised the PJ for doing nothing, and didn't tell people that Interpol had already acted on it, asking the Germans to check their databases. What the German response was no-one knows, because Interpol didn't share.  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg610841#msg610841


Interpol actually does share ... it is its whole raison d'être ... and if you are truly interested in finding out about it and not just an excuse to demand meaningless cites to order ... you really need to inform yourself - I can't do it for you.

I simply typed into Google "INTERPOL'S mandate" and the very first in a long line was ...

Article 2 provides that the Interpol mandate is 'to ensure and promote the widest possible mutual assistance between all criminal police authorities within the limits of the laws existing in the different countries and in in the spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights'22.

Further reading reveals ...

Adopted in 1956, the Constitution is our main legal instrument. It establishes the fundamental rules and principles by which the Organization operates. It defines the structure and roles of each INTERPOL body together with our mandate, which is:
  • To ensure and promote the widest possible mutual assistance between all criminal police authorities within the limits of the laws existing in the different countries and in the spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights;
  • To establish and develop all institutions likely to contribute effectively to the prevention and suppression of ordinary law crimes.
https://www.interpol.int/en/Who-we-are/Legal-framework/Legal-documents


As I said earlier Interpol doesn't actually do ... it's communication, expertise and assistance enables its member countries worldwide to do

Thank you for the cite.

Members of the public informed Operation Task about sex offenders and OT carried out extensive enquiries as a result. If they were unable to eliminate those people from the enquiry they sent intelligence packs to the PJ for futher work.
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf

Most of the information about sex offenders and Crimestoppers was removed from the files, but some was overlooked, including, imo, this document. Why it was sent and what it's purpose was can't be deduced without more information, imo, and due to the subject matter that isn't available. It's clearly part of the UK enquiries but what the outcome was isn't known.

As to why Amaral has been mentioned I can't imagine. The PJ worked continually with the Portuguese Interpol Office, in particular with it's International Cooperation Department.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PJ_INTERPOL.htm



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 20, 2020, 01:09:52 PM
Thank you for the cite.

Members of the public informed Operation Task about sex offenders and OT carried out extensive enquiries as a result. If they were unable to eliminate those people from the enquiry they sent intelligence packs to the PJ for futher work.
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf

Most of the information about sex offenders and Crimestoppers was removed from the files, but some was overlooked, including, imo, this document. Why it was sent and what it's purpose was can't be deduced without more information, imo, and due to the subject matter that isn't available. It's clearly part of the UK enquiries but what the outcome was isn't known.

As to why Amaral has been mentioned I can't imagine. The PJ worked continually with the Portuguese Interpol Office, in particular with it's International Cooperation Department.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PJ_INTERPOL.htm

As the case coordinator I imagine Amaral could be expected to have his finger on the pulse ... yet it took him until 2000 to give out information which led journalists to identify Brueckner.

It took him until 2000 to admit the police had visited Brueckner who apparently wasn't in when they called.

And Journalists have happened upon information complete with mug shots from police files showing that the Portuguese Police knew about Brueckner and the fact he was guilty of sexual offences against children from before 2007.

They didn't get that using a FOI request , did they?  Maybe some in the Judicial Police are following the tradition of leaking to the press. 
Now there's a thought ;)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 20, 2020, 01:34:20 PM
As the case coordinator I imagine Amaral could be expected to have his finger on the pulse ... yet it took him until 2000 to give out information which led journalists to identify Brueckner.

It took him until 2000 to admit the police had visited Brueckner who apparently wasn't in when they called.

And Journalists have happened upon information complete with mug shots from police files showing that the Portuguese Police knew about Brueckner and the fact he was guilty of sexual offences against children from before 2007.

They didn't get that using a FOI request , did they?  Maybe some in the Judicial Police are following the tradition of leaking to the press. 
Now there's a thought ;)

Perhaps we could have expected Rebelo to come across the information when he carried out his root and branch review of the work that had been carried out...perhaps even acted on it ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 20, 2020, 02:14:24 PM
As the case coordinator I imagine Amaral could be expected to have his finger on the pulse ... yet it took him until 2000 to give out information which led journalists to identify Brueckner.

It took him until 2000 to admit the police had visited Brueckner who apparently wasn't in when they called.

And Journalists have happened upon information complete with mug shots from police files showing that the Portuguese Police knew about Brueckner and the fact he was guilty of sexual offences against children from before 2007.

They didn't get that using a FOI request , did they?  Maybe some in the Judicial Police are following the tradition of leaking to the press. 
Now there's a thought ;)

What if it turns out that Brueckner could have had a hand in the disappearance of Joanna Cipriano.

The poop really will hit the fan.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 20, 2020, 02:47:02 PM
Perhaps we could have expected Rebelo to come across the information when he carried out his root and branch review of the work that had been carried out...perhaps even acted on it ?

Despite the fact that Rebelo was coordinator for eight months as opposed to Amaral's five months he receives virtually no criticism. Nor does Encarnacao, Amaral's superior, who requested Harrison's help and agreed to employ Martin Grime. Nor does the Prosecutor who directed the investigation.

Amaral certainly didn't have carte blanche to do as he liked. Could it be that Amaral is being scapegoated by all and sundry because he wrote a book describing his period of the investigation and his theories?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 20, 2020, 03:23:20 PM
Despite the fact that Rebelo was coordinator for eight months as opposed to Amaral's five months he receives virtually no criticism. Nor does Encarnacao, Amaral's superior, who requested Harrison's help and agreed to employ Martin Grime. Nor does the Prosecutor who directed the investigation.

Amaral certainly didn't have carte blanche to do as he liked. Could it be that Amaral is being scapegoated by all and sundry because he wrote a book describing his period of the investigation and his theories?

I think there is no doubt that at all.

The last decade would have been very different for the McCanns if Amaral had kept his mouth shut.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 20, 2020, 03:32:04 PM
Despite the fact that Rebelo was coordinator for eight months as opposed to Amaral's five months he receives virtually no criticism. Nor does Encarnacao, Amaral's superior, who requested Harrison's help and agreed to employ Martin Grime. Nor does the Prosecutor who directed the investigation.

Amaral certainly didn't have carte blanche to do as he liked. Could it be that Amaral is being scapegoated by all and sundry because he wrote a book describing his period of the investigation and his theories?

No other made any statements outside the official investigation...can't you see the difference
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 20, 2020, 03:36:38 PM
I think there is no doubt that at all.

The last decade would have been very different for the McCanns if Amaral had kept his mouth shut.

And for us. I think they had ambitions which were thwarted by their unpopularity.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 20, 2020, 04:08:19 PM
What if it turns out that Brueckner could have had a hand in the disappearance of Joanna Cipriano.

The poop really will hit the fan.

They never had a shred of forensic evidence that proved anything.  Particularly anything that proved Joana was dead.

But they still went after her mother.

I think the only way Brueckner could be implicated is if he confesses and tells either who he sold her to or reveals where her body is.
I don't think they bothered to do anything like a cell tower dump when Joana disappeared ... even if they knew what that is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 20, 2020, 04:20:14 PM
Despite the fact that Rebelo was coordinator for eight months as opposed to Amaral's five months he receives virtually no criticism. Nor does Encarnacao, Amaral's superior, who requested Harrison's help and agreed to employ Martin Grime. Nor does the Prosecutor who directed the investigation.

Amaral certainly didn't have carte blanche to do as he liked. Could it be that Amaral is being scapegoated by all and sundry because he wrote a book describing his period of the investigation and his theories?

Rebelo spent much of his time clearing up the mess left behind by Amaral and trying to put it into some kind of order before going over the 'information' featuring the McCanns and Murat ... what possible time did he have to deviate from that path?

Amaral was a liar and an incompetent whose insistence on his thesis ruined any chance for Madeleine's case to be investigated properly.

If it had been properly investigated we would have heard about Brueckner many years before we actually did ... courtesy of Amaral, the man himself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 20, 2020, 04:26:13 PM
I think there is no doubt that at all.

The last decade would have been very different for the McCanns if Amaral had kept his mouth shut.

The last thirteen years might have been very different for Madeleine McCann had the police bothered to check their files against cell tower dumps around Luz.
I don't know exactly how the life of a missing child pans out against the opportunity of the senior investigating officer in her case making a living out of the failure to find her.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 20, 2020, 04:29:54 PM
And for us. I think they had ambitions which were thwarted by their unpopularity.

Please explain that opinion in words of one syllable ... your meaning is in my opinion either obscure or libellous and I would like to think I am wrong about the libel bit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 20, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
The last thirteen years might have been very different for Madeleine McCann had the police bothered to check their files against cell tower dumps around Luz.
I don't know exactly how the life of a missing child pans out against the opportunity of the senior investigating officer in her case making a living out of the failure to find her.


All far too late for her  by then.  IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 20, 2020, 04:33:36 PM
The last thirteen years might have been very different for Madeleine McCann had the police bothered to check their files against cell tower dumps around Luz.
I don't know exactly how the life of a missing child pans out against the opportunity of the senior investigating officer in her case making a living out of the failure to find her.

Might they not still have these telephone records?  They've got them for 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 20, 2020, 04:58:09 PM
Might they not still have these telephone records?  They've got them for 2007.

I don't know exactly how it works, Eleanor.  I know that British specialists asked for the dump to be made shortly after Madeleine's disappearance.

I don't know if the phone companies would have kept it all as a matter of course or even if they do today without being asked or without a court order.
There is a chance they might have ... if it is at all possible, I bet the Germans might have already checked it out with the Judicial Police.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 20, 2020, 04:59:16 PM

All far too late for her  by then.  IMO

You do not know that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 20, 2020, 05:08:21 PM
The last thirteen years might have been very different for Madeleine McCann had the police bothered to check their files against cell tower dumps around Luz.
I don't know exactly how the life of a missing child pans out against the opportunity of the senior investigating officer in her case making a living out of the failure to find her.

Who  ..the Germans


The German L.E. made a mistake in 2013 and tipped off Bruckner into the fact they were investigating the mcc case.

 He has never been questioned because in Germany you can refuse police questioning.

 Of course the prosecutor wants to wrap up the case now because they took a risk and launched such a public appeal, time is ticking with the world watching.

IMO it was a strategy to correct their 2013 mistake. If they appeal for info they can at least argue they did all to investigate CB.

I believe the German Prosecutor is thinking about his office/job/ country first and not about solving the mcc case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 20, 2020, 05:21:55 PM
Who  ..the Germans


The German L.E. made a mistake in 2013 and tipped off Bruckner into the fact they were investigating the mcc case.

 He has never been questioned because in Germany you can refuse police questioning.

 Of course the prosecutor wants to wrap up the case now because they took a risk and launched such a public appeal, time is ticking with the world watching.

IMO it was a strategy to correct their 2013 mistake. If they appeal for info they can at least argue they did all to investigate CB.

I believe the German Prosecutor is thinking about his office/job/ country first and not about solving the mcc case

You don't seem to know what you are talking about...a suspect can refuse to answer questions in most countries.
Certainly UK and Portugal and many many more....the rest is just more sceptic speculation. We will know more when we find out... hopefully...what evidence the Germans have



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 20, 2020, 05:27:08 PM
And for us. I think they had ambitions which were thwarted by their unpopularity.
Ambitions such as what? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 20, 2020, 05:29:53 PM
Despite the fact that Rebelo was coordinator for eight months as opposed to Amaral's five months he receives virtually no criticism. Nor does Encarnacao, Amaral's superior, who requested Harrison's help and agreed to employ Martin Grime. Nor does the Prosecutor who directed the investigation.

Amaral certainly didn't have carte blanche to do as he liked. Could it be that Amaral is being scapegoated by all and sundry because he wrote a book describing his period of the investigation and his theories?
I can respect Rebelo even if I don’t agree with him - at least he was discreet and not an egotist who,wanted to be seen as the world’s leading autnority on the guilt of the McCanns and get rich in the process.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 20, 2020, 05:30:53 PM
Please explain that opinion in words of one syllable ... your meaning is in my opinion either obscure or libellous and I would like to think I am wrong about the libel bit.
I doubt we’ll get an explanation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 20, 2020, 09:34:51 PM
Please explain that opinion in words of one syllable ... your meaning is in my opinion either obscure or libellous and I would like to think I am wrong about the libel bit.

My opinion? Kate McCann stated her intentions for her future quite clearly, and it didn't include being a medical worker, whatever that is.

Kate launched into her role as an ambassador for a variety of kids' charities last week, attending a lunch for Missing Children Europe.

Her focus will also include continuing her push for tougher laws across the continent to protect the young from paedophiles...

Last night Kate's mum Susan Healey, 61, said her daughter has no intention of returning to work as a GP. She said: "It is definite now. One of her main goals in life is to work with children and assist with child safety."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kate-quits-as-gp-to-work-for-kids-1649946

Gerry McCann became involved in Hacked Off, and gave speeches and interviews on the subject but not any more, although they haven't achieved their goals.

In my opinion they weren't able to continue to campaign publicly for the causes they got involved with because their unpopularity made their involvement unhelpful.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 20, 2020, 10:29:25 PM
My opinion? Kate McCann stated her intentions for her future quite clearly, and it didn't include being a medical worker, whatever that is.

Kate launched into her role as an ambassador for a variety of kids' charities last week, attending a lunch for Missing Children Europe.

Her focus will also include continuing her push for tougher laws across the continent to protect the young from paedophiles...

Last night Kate's mum Susan Healey, 61, said her daughter has no intention of returning to work as a GP. She said: "It is definite now. One of her main goals in life is to work with children and assist with child safety."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kate-quits-as-gp-to-work-for-kids-1649946

Gerry McCann became involved in Hacked Off, and gave speeches and interviews on the subject but not any more, although they haven't achieved their goals.

In my opinion they weren't able to continue to campaign publicly for the causes they got involved with because their unpopularity made their involvement unhelpful.
Kate is still an ambassador of Missing People alongside a bunch of other high profile people, none of whom appear to be massively active on the subject of Missing People https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/about-us/who-we-are/our-ambassadors.html
As far as I’m aware no one has made any speeches wrt to Hacked Off for some years and Gerry is pursuing his ambition of being a highly respected leading expert in cardiology which his alleged huge unpopularity and status as one time suspect in his daughter’s disappearance does not seem to have hindered.  IMO your post was just mean-spirited bitching.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 21, 2020, 12:10:39 AM
My opinion? Kate McCann stated her intentions for her future quite clearly, and it didn't include being a medical worker, whatever that is.

Kate launched into her role as an ambassador for a variety of kids' charities last week, attending a lunch for Missing Children Europe.

Her focus will also include continuing her push for tougher laws across the continent to protect the young from paedophiles...

Last night Kate's mum Susan Healey, 61, said her daughter has no intention of returning to work as a GP. She said: "It is definite now. One of her main goals in life is to work with children and assist with child safety."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kate-quits-as-gp-to-work-for-kids-1649946

Gerry McCann became involved in Hacked Off, and gave speeches and interviews on the subject but not any more, although they haven't achieved their goals.

In my opinion they weren't able to continue to campaign publicly for the causes they got involved with because their unpopularity made their involvement unhelpful.

Allow me to say I am astounded by and actually very saddened for you on reading that post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 21, 2020, 02:22:12 AM
As the case coordinator I imagine Amaral could be expected to have his finger on the pulse ... yet it took him until 2000 to give out information which led journalists to identify Brueckner.

It took him until 2000 to admit the police had visited Brueckner who apparently wasn't in when they called.

And Journalists have happened upon information complete with mug shots from police files showing that the Portuguese Police knew about Brueckner and the fact he was guilty of sexual offences against children from before 2007.

They didn't get that using a FOI request , did they?  Maybe some in the Judicial Police are following the tradition of leaking to the press. 
Now there's a thought ;)

As top drugs cop in the Algarve, I find it surprising that Amaral hadn't found out a few things about Bruckner already.   And that because of this he would surely have a special interest in him .. and watch him more carefully?

From recent reports, it seems that quite a number of people knew that Bruckner was supplying drugs, yet after several years Amaral still didn't know ?   Ah well, perhaps he isn't a very good sleuth.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 08:41:06 AM
Allow me to say I am astounded by and actually very saddened for you on reading that post.

Allow me to reply.

Your 'emotional' responses don't interest me in the slightest.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 21, 2020, 09:03:27 AM
As top drugs cop in the Algarve, I find it surprising that Amaral hadn't found out a few things about Bruckner already.   And that because of this he would surely have a special interest in him .. and watch him more carefully?

From recent reports, it seems that quite a number of people knew that Bruckner was supplying drugs, yet after several years Amaral still didn't know ?   Ah well, perhaps he isn't a very good sleuth.

I have wondered about that, Sadie.

Brueckner doesn't appear to have much of a criminal record in Portugal given accounts by his friends of prolific and lucrative wrong doing.
I mean did no-one wonder where the money for the Winnebego came from.  Even second hand as Myster thinks it could have been, it represents a big chunk of anyone's budget, not to mention someone's who was allegedly doing odd jobs in exchange for a shower.

I think it is possible Brueckner might have been acting as a police informant and was known to them in that role.
Maybe they couldn't see beyond that role as they built reputations on clearing drug heists with their informant benefiting from a bit of quid pro quo?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 09:06:43 AM
My opinion? Kate McCann stated her intentions for her future quite clearly, and it didn't include being a medical worker, whatever that is.

Kate launched into her role as an ambassador for a variety of kids' charities last week, attending a lunch for Missing Children Europe.

Her focus will also include continuing her push for tougher laws across the continent to protect the young from paedophiles...

Last night Kate's mum Susan Healey, 61, said her daughter has no intention of returning to work as a GP. She said: "It is definite now. One of her main goals in life is to work with children and assist with child safety."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kate-quits-as-gp-to-work-for-kids-1649946

Gerry McCann became involved in Hacked Off, and gave speeches and interviews on the subject but not any more, although they haven't achieved their goals.

In my opinion they weren't able to continue to campaign publicly for the causes they got involved with because their unpopularity made their involvement unhelpful.

Total sceptic bisased bitchiness....IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 21, 2020, 09:09:26 AM
My opinion? Kate McCann stated her intentions for her future quite clearly, and it didn't include being a medical worker, whatever that is.

Kate launched into her role as an ambassador for a variety of kids' charities last week, attending a lunch for Missing Children Europe.

Her focus will also include continuing her push for tougher laws across the continent to protect the young from paedophiles...

Last night Kate's mum Susan Healey, 61, said her daughter has no intention of returning to work as a GP. She said: "It is definite now. One of her main goals in life is to work with children and assist with child safety."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kate-quits-as-gp-to-work-for-kids-1649946

Gerry McCann became involved in Hacked Off, and gave speeches and interviews on the subject but not any more, although they haven't achieved their goals.

In my opinion they weren't able to continue to campaign publicly for the causes they got involved with because their unpopularity made their involvement unhelpful.


I think you are under the illusion that the McCann's are unpopular with the majority of the British people. Forums  Facebook groups   people who rush to spill their spite on newspaper comments pages,  do not pass for the majority of the British people.   Kate felt that she could do some good by helping the Missing People charity and good for her.   Now Kate is a medical worker and Gerry a Professor.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 21, 2020, 09:09:38 AM
Allow me to reply.

Your 'emotional' responses don't interest me in the slightest.

Where does Amaral feature in your ruminations?  He is the one you should be expressing an opinion on not me ... not Kate ... and not Gerry McCann.
It is after all ... Amaral's thread.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 10:04:16 AM
Where does Amaral feature in your ruminations?  He is the one you should be expressing an opinion on not me ... not Kate ... and not Gerry McCann.
It is after all ... Amaral's thread.

My post grew out of a comment about how Amaral's actions affected the McCann's lives during the years after the disappearance. He didn't cause people's distrust of them, but he helped to stir interest in the PJ's reasons for making them arguidos. That interest led to the original files and the libel trial details being uploaded onto the internet and translated. People were then able to compare what the McCanns and the media said with what actually occured.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 21, 2020, 10:09:02 AM
My post grew out of a comment about how Amaral's actions affected the McCann's lives during the years after the disappearance. He didn't cause people's distrust of them, but he helped to stir interest in the PJ's reasons for making them arguidos. That interest led to the original files and the libel trial details being uploaded onto the internet and translated. People were then able to compare what the McCanns and the media said with what actually occured.
Amaral seems to have been hell-bent in trying to discover why Madeleine left the apartment rather than focusing on where did Madeleine go after she left the apartment. 

Op Grange: "however Madeleine left the apartment , she was abducted".    That is one step beyond wondering how Madeleine left the apartment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 10:11:00 AM
My post grew out of a comment about how Amaral's actions affected the McCann's lives during the years after the disappearance. He didn't cause people's distrust of them, but he helped to stir interest in the PJ's reasons for making them arguidos. That interest led to the original files and the libel trial details being uploaded onto the internet and translated. People were then able to compare what the McCanns and the media said with what actually occured.

Are you really suggesting that amarals book and statement s have caused some distrust towards the McCanns...that's s bit of a daft post imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 21, 2020, 10:45:43 AM
My post grew out of a comment about how Amaral's actions affected the McCann's lives during the years after the disappearance. He didn't cause people's distrust of them, but he helped to stir interest in the PJ's reasons for making them arguidos. That interest led to the original files and the libel trial details being uploaded onto the internet and translated. People were then able to compare what the McCanns and the media said with what actually occured.

If you think Amaral didn't cause distrust of The McCanns then you must be using a different language to me.

No one knows what actually occurred.  And some of the Translations were pretty rubbish.  Depending on who did those.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 21, 2020, 10:54:08 AM
My post grew out of a comment about how Amaral's actions affected the McCann's lives during the years after the disappearance. He didn't cause people's distrust of them, but he helped to stir interest in the PJ's reasons for making them arguidos. That interest led to the original files and the libel trial details being uploaded onto the internet and translated. People were then able to compare what the McCanns and the media said with what actually occured.
You don't think Amaral's best selling book and his numerous accusatory TV appearances had anything whatsoever to do with damaging the McCanns' reputation, particularly in Portugal?  Wow. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 10:57:14 AM
Are you really suggesting that amarals book and statement s have caused some distrust towards the McCanns...that's s bit of a daft post imo

Did you read my post?

"He didn't cause people's distrust of them, "

If your understand of evidence is as accurate as your understanding of my post then your understand isn't to be relied on imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 10:59:41 AM
Did you read my post?

"He didn't cause people's distrust of them, "

If your understand of evidence is as accurate as your understanding of my post then your understand isn't to be relied on imo.

I think my understanding of your post...and you intentions and mindset is 100% accurate
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 11:20:41 AM
You don't think Amaral's best selling book and his numerous accusatory TV appearances had anything whatsoever to do with damaging the McCanns' reputation, particularly in Portugal?  Wow.

I made no mention of the McCann's reputation. I said he didn't cause people's distrust of them. That emerged before he wrote his book.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 21, 2020, 11:38:02 AM
My post grew out of a comment about how Amaral's actions affected the McCann's lives during the years after the disappearance. He didn't cause people's distrust of them, but he helped to stir interest in the PJ's reasons for making them arguidos. That interest led to the original files and the libel trial details being uploaded onto the internet and translated. People were then able to compare what the McCanns and the media said with what actually occured.

In my opinion you are incredibly naive to imagine that Amaral and his media campaign aided and abetted by that well known "source close to the investigation" Cristovao ... and by a furious Sandra Felguieras, a bona fide journalist who was used as a patsy for Amaral's propaganda campaign against the McCanns and who watched it mature into what it has become today as exemplified by you in the post above.


"I saw, incredulous, how easy it is to proliferate lies just in order to justify the thesis of a retired inspector for having said in public what he never managed to prove in court. But in public, we can only speak what we can prove. And this is true for everyone.”  Sandra Felgueiras
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 11:40:29 AM
I made no mention of the McCann's reputation. I said he didn't cause people's distrust of them. That emerged before he wrote his book.

There may well have been distrust before the book but the book surely made things even worse.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 21, 2020, 11:47:24 AM
I made no mention of the McCann's reputation. I said he didn't cause people's distrust of them. That emerged before he wrote his book.
It's the same thing and you're splitting hairs but if you insist I will rewrite my post:

You don't think Amaral's best selling book and his numerous accusatory TV appearances had anything whatsoever to do with causing distrust of the McCanns, particularly in Portugal?  Wow
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 21, 2020, 11:52:00 AM
There may well have been distrust before the book but the book surely made things even worse.

In my opinion the path Amaral intended to map out was evident in the first leak to the press about 'the badly told story' before the ink was even dry on his arguido papers. 
The constant deluge of lies propagated by him continued thereon in until very recent times still getting in digs about Madeleine's father.

How anyone can fail to see through this very flawed person amazes me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 11:54:00 AM
In my opinion you are incredibly naive to imagine that Amaral and his media campaign aided and abetted by that well known "source close to the investigation" Cristovao ... and by a furious Sandra Felguieras, a bona fide journalist who was used as a patsy for Amaral's propaganda campaign against the McCanns and who watched it mature into what it has become today as exemplified by you in the post above.


"I saw, incredulous, how easy it is to proliferate lies just in order to justify the thesis of a retired inspector for having said in public what he never managed to prove in court. But in public, we can only speak what we can prove. And this is true for everyone.”  Sandra Felgueiras

I wonder if Martin Brunt subscribes to that view? He spoke in public about things he couldn't prove. Three DNA matches (0.27) to Madeleine's DNA. In the apartment (0.33) one full match on a windowsill. In the hire car (0.48) one full match and one part match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3HQ74Rfdbk

I don't think Amaral told him that, so who was feeding him his lies?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 11:56:00 AM
There may well have been distrust before the book but the book surely made things even worse.

Making things worse is not causing them, it's adding to something pre-existing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 12:04:35 PM
Making things worse is not causing them, it's adding to something pre-existing.

You are wrong...its an ongoing thing.  Amarals book caused more harm to their repuation...therefore it caused harm.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 21, 2020, 12:05:40 PM
I wonder if Martin Brunt subscribes to that view? He spoke in public about things he couldn't prove. Three DNA matches (0.27) to Madeleine's DNA. In the apartment (0.33) one full match on a windowsill. In the hire car (0.48) one full match and one part match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3HQ74Rfdbk

I don't think Amaral told him that, so who was feeding him his lies?

Follow the chain to and from Hugo Beaty's Luz.

Amaral~a very fat Portuguese 'journalist'~his equally obese translator girlfriend~ a crowd of journalists avidly awaiting copy.  And Bob's your uncle.

Sandra Felgueiras is on record as saying she too believed what Amaral told her ... until she discovered the lie of it on reading the actual forensic report.
So Brunt really was not alone ... but even at that his word didn't really carry the weight of the retired coordinator brought down by everyone conspiring against him ... did it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 21, 2020, 12:37:46 PM
Follow the chain to and from Hugo Beaty's Luz.

Amaral~a very fat Portuguese 'journalist'~his equally obese translator girlfriend~ a crowd of journalists avidly awaiting copy.  And Bob's your uncle.

Sandra Felgueiras is on record as saying she too believed what Amaral told her ... until she discovered the lie of it on reading the actual forensic report.
So Brunt really was not alone ... but even at that his word didn't really carry the weight of the retired coordinator brought down by everyone conspiring against him ... did it?

Ah, Yes.  Johanna Morais and Levy, sitting together in cafes and translating to English Journalists.  Who knows what the hell those two had to say?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 12:42:06 PM
Follow the chain to and from Hugo Beaty's Luz.

Amaral~a very fat Portuguese 'journalist'~his equally obese translator girlfriend~ a crowd of journalists avidly awaiting copy.  And Bob's your uncle.

Sandra Felgueiras is on record as saying she too believed what Amaral told her ... until she discovered the lie of it on reading the actual forensic report.
So Brunt really was not alone ... but even at that his word didn't really carry the weight of the retired coordinator brought down by everyone conspiring against him ... did it?

You are suggesting where Brunt may have got his information, but that's just a rumour.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 21, 2020, 12:45:20 PM
It's the same thing and you're splitting hairs but if you insist I will rewrite my post:

You don't think Amaral's best selling book and his numerous accusatory TV appearances had anything whatsoever to do with causing distrust of the McCanns, particularly in Portugal?  Wow

Are you asking G-unit a question or making a statement?  If you are asking a question as suggested by the use of a question mark I suggest you stop goading G-unit with comments like "wow".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 21, 2020, 12:47:51 PM
I wonder if Martin Brunt subscribes to that view? He spoke in public about things he couldn't prove. Three DNA matches (0.27) to Madeleine's DNA. In the apartment (0.33) one full match on a windowsill. In the hire car (0.48) one full match and one part match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3HQ74Rfdbk

I don't think Amaral told him that, so who was feeding him his lies?
What made you think it wasn't "Amaral" (or the PJ)?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 21, 2020, 01:26:15 PM


I distrusted the McCanns long before I'd ever even heard of Amaral.

I believed the McCanns to be lying on exactly May 4th 2007, as I watched Gerry read a statement & Kate struggling to get any tears to come out of her eyes.

I didn't take any interest in the case thereafter until I first learned about Amaral when reading a newspaper in a cafe many years later.

The article I read was about the book trial. I then read Amarals book.

Pursuing him in court gave him, his theories & his book increased publicity.

If he was just spouting nonsense then maybe the McCanns should have ignored him & put their time, money & energy into searching for their missing daughter instead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 01:37:16 PM
What made you think it wasn't "Amaral" (or the PJ)?

I don't know who it was, but it was unlikely to be a direct communication from Amaral as he doesn't speak English and Brunt has never demonstrated an ability to speak Portuguese.

Could it be that Amaral was misled? This story is full of mistakes, but it must have originated somewhere.

DNA blunder turned Kate McCann into suspect

A key blunder by a British forensics team led to the McCanns being named official suspects, according to a leaked Portuguese report today.

According to the Portuguese, the British Forensic Science Service told them that DNA evidence found in the couple's hire car a month after the girl went missing was categorically Madeleine's...

The claim about the DNA evidence is likely to cause the Forensic Science Service embarrassment. Last week representatives of the service went out to Portugal with Leicestershire police to try to prevent the information being made public.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/dna-blunder-turned-kate-mccann-into-suspect-6841563.html

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 01:47:11 PM

I distrusted the McCanns long before I'd ever even heard of Amaral.

I believed the McCanns to be lying on exactly May 4th 2007, as I watched Gerry read a statement & Kate struggling to get any tears to come out of her eyes.

I didn't take any interest in the case thereafter until I first learned about Amaral when reading a newspaper in a cafe many years later.

The article I read was about the book trial. I then read Amarals book.

Pursuing him in court gave him, his theories & his book increased publicity.

If he was just spouting nonsense then maybe the McCanns should have ignored him & put their time, money & energy into searching for their missing daughter instead.

I believe a lot of people found that first appeal puzzling.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 21, 2020, 01:52:02 PM
I don't know who it was, but it was unlikely to be a direct communication from Amaral as he doesn't speak English and Brunt has never demonstrated an ability to speak Portuguese.

Could it be that Amaral was misled? This story is full of mistakes, but it must have originated somewhere.

DNA blunder turned Kate McCann into suspect

A key blunder by a British forensics team led to the McCanns being named official suspects, according to a leaked Portuguese report today.

According to the Portuguese, the British Forensic Science Service told them that DNA evidence found in the couple's hire car a month after the girl went missing was categorically Madeleine's...

The claim about the DNA evidence is likely to cause the Forensic Science Service embarrassment. Last week representatives of the service went out to Portugal with Leicestershire police to try to prevent the information being made public.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/dna-blunder-turned-kate-mccann-into-suspect-6841563.html

So it's always someone else's fault.  Amaral never did a thing wrong.  It's perfectly okay for a Lead Investigator to write a book accusing The McCanns without a scrap of Proof.

Of course it is, in Portugal.

What a very sorry tale and what a very nasty man.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 02:05:45 PM
So it's always someone else's fault.  Amaral never did a thing wrong.  It's perfectly okay for a Lead Investigator to write a book accusing The McCanns without a scrap of Proof.

Of course it is, in Portugal.

What a very sorry tale and what a very nasty man.

Well despite her stated belief in saying publicly only what can be proved, the now admired Sandra had a close call in August 2007;

THE parents of Madeleine McCann are threatening to sue one of Portugal'sbest known television reporters for libel, the Evening Standard can reveal.

Sources close to Kate and Gerry McCann say the couple are incensed over atleast one live broadcast by Sandra Felgueiras, an experienced and glamorousbroadcaster with national television station RTP.

It is alleged that in one live transmission Ms Felgueiras intimated that MrsMcCann could have murdered her daughter.
https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1G1-167943830/mccann-fury-at-murder-smear-outrage-sandra-felgueiras
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 21, 2020, 02:08:14 PM
So it's always someone else's fault.  Amaral never did a thing wrong.  It's perfectly okay for a Lead Investigator to write a book accusing The McCanns without a scrap of Proof.

Of course it is, in Portugal.

What a very sorry tale and what a very nasty man.

Thats a fair point if you believe the abduction took place.

Not if you don't believe there was an abduction....IMO the mccs are the ones who blame every one for the loss of their child.

GA had a lot of hurdles put in his way and IMO most of the things he wanted to do was took out of his hands.

They will not let it go with GA yet forgive abducter ....now look who some seem to think is CB who they are forgiving.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 21, 2020, 02:12:02 PM
Well despite her stated belief in saying publicly only what can be proved, the now admired Sandra had a close call in August 2007;

THE parents of Madeleine McCann are threatening to sue one of Portugal'sbest known television reporters for libel, the Evening Standard can reveal.

Sources close to Kate and Gerry McCann say the couple are incensed over atleast one live broadcast by Sandra Felgueiras, an experienced and glamorousbroadcaster with national television station RTP.

It is alleged that in one live transmission Ms Felgueiras intimated that MrsMcCann could have murdered her daughter.
https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1G1-167943830/mccann-fury-at-murder-smear-outrage-sandra-felgueiras

Did The McCanns sue Sandra?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 21, 2020, 02:32:36 PM
Are you asking G-unit a question or making a statement?  If you are asking a question as suggested by the use of a question mark I suggest you stop goading G-unit with comments like "wow".
Wow is my genuine expression of incredulity at G-Unit's belief that Amaral's efforts did not cause any distrust of the McCanns, it's not goading.   but tell you what, if it is goading then that is against forum rules and I suggest you give me at least a 40% warning as my current warning is due to expire tomorrow and I need a top up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 21, 2020, 02:42:55 PM
Well despite her stated belief in saying publicly only what can be proved, the now admired Sandra had a close call in August 2007;

THE parents of Madeleine McCann are threatening to sue one of Portugal'sbest known television reporters for libel, the Evening Standard can reveal.

Sources close to Kate and Gerry McCann say the couple are incensed over atleast one live broadcast by Sandra Felgueiras, an experienced and glamorousbroadcaster with national television station RTP.

It is alleged that in one live transmission Ms Felgueiras intimated that MrsMcCann could have murdered her daughter.
https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1G1-167943830/mccann-fury-at-murder-smear-outrage-sandra-felgueiras

Does anyone really believe that SF was hoodwinked by Amaral ? I’m not buying it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 21, 2020, 03:06:10 PM
I can respect Rebelo even if I don’t agree with him - at least he was discreet and not an egotist who,wanted to be seen as the world’s leading autnority on the guilt of the McCanns and get rich in the process.

I found Rebelo to be a decent cop... but under the enormous pressure of time constraints (plus the media) to tick off boxes re whether to charge any of the arguidos or not. He didn't have the luxury of time to go right back to the beginning.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 21, 2020, 03:14:22 PM
I found Rebelo to be a decent cop... but under the enormous pressure of time constraints (plus the media) to tick off boxes re whether to charge any of the arguidos or not. He didn't have the luxury of time to go right back to the beginning.

He also didn't have the cooperation of the McCanns friends.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 03:14:43 PM
Does anyone really believe that SF was hoodwinked by Amaral ? I’m not buying it.

Her and many others imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 03:20:11 PM
Wow is my genuine expression of incredulity at G-Unit's belief that Amaral's efforts did not cause any distrust of the McCanns, it's not goading.   but tell you what, if it is goading then that is against forum rules and I suggest you give me at least a 40% warning as my current warning is due to expire tomorrow and I need a top up.

Wow
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 21, 2020, 03:22:06 PM
Wow

Please don't do this.  Otherwise I might have to get cross.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 21, 2020, 03:26:33 PM
You are suggesting where Brunt may have got his information, but that's just a rumour.

A similar, apparently sanctioned but inaccurate leak had already gone around the world to still more devastating effect.

Early on Monday evening, TV channels began to report that British forensic scientists had made a "100 per cent" DNA match to Madeleine from "biological material" – said to be hair and "bodily fluids" – recovered from the Renault Scenic that the McCanns did not hire until 25 days after she vanished, suggesting that they had hidden her body on May 3 and moved it weeks after her death.

With no time for reporters to make checks before their deadlines, the story spread like foot and mouth to almost every British front page the next morning.

It was only in the ensuing days that it began, spectacularly, to unravel.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lies-beatings-secret-trials-the-dark-side-of-police-handling-madeleine-case-6622113.html

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 03:28:46 PM
Please don't do this.  Otherwise I might have to get cross.

You can get cross if you wish..sometimes things have to be said ..is wow now a banned word
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 21, 2020, 03:32:41 PM
Well despite her stated belief in saying publicly only what can be proved, the now admired Sandra had a close call in August 2007;

THE parents of Madeleine McCann are threatening to sue one of Portugal'sbest known television reporters for libel, the Evening Standard can reveal.

Sources close to Kate and Gerry McCann say the couple are incensed over atleast one live broadcast by Sandra Felgueiras, an experienced and glamorousbroadcaster with national television station RTP.

It is alleged that in one live transmission Ms Felgueiras intimated that MrsMcCann could have murdered her daughter.
https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1G1-167943830/mccann-fury-at-murder-smear-outrage-sandra-felgueiras

Sandra Felgueiras was repeating information from what she considered was an 'impeccable source'.  Who wouldn't trust the case coordinator Amaral? and we know that is the main source of her disinformation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 21, 2020, 03:35:44 PM
You can get cross if you wish..sometimes things have to be said ..is wow now a banned word

Erm....I wàs joking.  Am I not allowed to joke anymore?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 03:48:27 PM
Erm....I wàs joking.  Am I not allowed to joke anymore?

My apologies
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 21, 2020, 03:58:43 PM
My apologies

That's okay.  There wouldn't be any point if you knew for certain that I was joking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 21, 2020, 05:35:29 PM
Her and many others imo

She’s a seasoned journalist.

She made hay while the sun shone and now it’s no longer shining she has to find another money stream.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 06:47:57 PM
She’s a seasoned journalist.

She made hay while the sun shone and now it’s no longer shining she has to find another money stream.


I think you just find it difficult to accept the truth
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 21, 2020, 06:52:42 PM

I think you just find it difficult to accept the truth

She read the files, knew what they contained straight after they were released yet still went ahead with the ‘ask the dogs’ interview in which she was very combative towards the parents. What’s not true about that ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 06:55:37 PM
She read the files, knew what they contained straight after they were released yet still went ahead with the ‘ask the dogs’ interview in which she was very combative towards the parents. What’s not true about that ?

It depends when she realised she had been lied to...Perhaps you can tell us exactly when she realised the DNA evidence was unreliable. There are several posters here who have read the files and still dont realise
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 21, 2020, 07:05:55 PM
She read the files, knew what they contained straight after they were released yet still went ahead with the ‘ask the dogs’ interview in which she was very combative towards the parents. What’s not true about that ?

She did come across as quite combative, I agree.

But she was also interviewed on TV and was highly critical of the investigation. I can't pinpoint exactly whether that was before or just after the "ask-the-dogs" interview. For some reason, *cough*, it didn't get translated. I have a summary of what someone said it was about, but I'm not sure it's worth posting. Anyway, if the summary is accurate (and it came from someone firmly on the parents-what-dunnit side of the debate, at the time at least) it was pretty much what she said in the Netflix documentary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 21, 2020, 08:28:48 PM
Sandra Felgueiras was repeating information from what she considered was an 'impeccable source'.  Who wouldn't trust the case coordinator Amaral? and we know that is the main source of her disinformation.

Amaral was the victim of the same.... or if not he misunderstood.... but I believe he jumped the gun on the basis of being told there was evidence of a link to MM.... To quote the FSS; "The simple answer is yes"
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on July 21, 2020, 08:41:13 PM
Amaral was the victim of the same.... or if not he misunderstood.... but I believe he jumped the gun on the basis of being told there was evidence of a link to MM.... To quote the FSS; "The simple answer is yes"

The defunct UK Forensic Science Service was very much unfit for purpose and their dismantling evidenced this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 08:50:51 PM
The defunct UK Forensic Science Service was very much unfit for purpose and their dismantling evidenced this.

Absolute rubbish John...a total myth
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2020, 08:58:46 PM
The defunct UK Forensic Science Service was very much unfit for purpose and their dismantling evidenced this.

It was between 2000 and 2005 that concerns arose because of the methods used by the FSS;

The FSS was apparently applying the new LCN technique in a different way, meaning its scientists may have missed DNA evidence that other private forensic laboratories could have identified.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6381969.stm

Police Forces increasingly used private labs and the FSS made huge losses, leading to it's eventual closure.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 21, 2020, 09:02:40 PM
It was between 2000 and 2005 that concerns arose because of the methods used by the FSS;

The FSS was apparently applying the new LCN technique in a different way, meaning its scientists may have missed DNA evidence that other private forensic laboratories could have identified.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6381969.stm

Police Forces increasingly used private labs and the FSS made huge losses, leading to it's eventual closure.

What both you and John fail to understand is that it was the FSS that developed LCN DNA. Without the FSS who you...John and others want to unfairly criticise there would have been no DNA to analyse...

thats NO DNA....LOL


The so called unfit for purpose FSS also developed Familial DNA....do a bit of research and find out how useful that has been



The familial searching service offered to the police by several UK forensic science providers exploits the size and geographic coverage of the NDNAD and the fact that close relatives of an offender may share a significant proportion of that offender's DNA profile and will often reside in close geographic proximity to him or her. Between 2002 and 2011 Forensic Science Service Ltd. (FSS) provided familial search services to support 188 police investigations, 70 of which are still active cases. This technique, which may be used in serious crime cases or in ‘cold case’ reviews when there are few or no investigative leads, has led to the identification of 41 perpetrators or suspects.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 21, 2020, 09:07:43 PM
She did come across as quite combative, I agree.

But she was also interviewed on TV and was highly critical of the investigation. I can't pinpoint exactly whether that was before or just after the "ask-the-dogs" interview. For some reason, *cough*, it didn't get translated. I have a summary of what someone said it was about, but I'm not sure it's worth posting. Anyway, if the summary is accurate (and it came from someone firmly on the parents-what-dunnit side of the debate, at the time at least) it was pretty much what she said in the Netflix documentary.

Not sure the point you are trying to make. The ‘ask the dogs’ interview was months after the files had been released. As a journalist  SF would have received a disc immediately and there would be no need to translate the files on it. If SF learned she had been lied to before the ‘dogs’ interview, as she must have, why do the interview ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 22, 2020, 12:06:37 AM
Wow is my genuine expression of incredulity at G-Unit's belief that Amaral's efforts did not cause any distrust of the McCanns, it's not goading.   but tell you what, if it is goading then that is against forum rules and I suggest you give me at least a 40% warning as my current warning is due to expire tomorrow and I need a top up.
Stop your goading.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 22, 2020, 12:08:08 AM
Please don't do this.  Otherwise I might have to get cross.
Wow!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 22, 2020, 01:18:23 AM
Wow!

And to you too.  xxxx
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on July 22, 2020, 02:29:16 AM
What both you and John fail to understand is that it was the FSS that developed LCN DNA. Without the FSS who you...John and others want to unfairly criticise there would have been no DNA to analyse...

thats NO DNA....LOL


The so called unfit for purpose FSS also developed Familial DNA....do a bit of research and find out how useful that has been



The familial searching service offered to the police by several UK forensic science providers exploits the size and geographic coverage of the NDNAD and the fact that close relatives of an offender may share a significant proportion of that offender's DNA profile and will often reside in close geographic proximity to him or her. Between 2002 and 2011 Forensic Science Service Ltd. (FSS) provided familial search services to support 188 police investigations, 70 of which are still active cases. This technique, which may be used in serious crime cases or in ‘cold case’ reviews when there are few or no investigative leads, has led to the identification of 41 perpetrators or suspects.

Exactly and later shown to be flawed in the cases of the Birmingham 6 and Barry George.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 22, 2020, 07:08:10 AM
Wow!
Stop your goading.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 09:00:22 AM
Exactly and later shown to be flawed in the cases of the Birmingham 6 and Barry George.

Just a very  clumsy attempt to rubbish a very competent organisation because it didn't find evidence against the McCanns....par for the course
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 22, 2020, 09:01:17 AM
What both you and John fail to understand is that it was the FSS that developed LCN DNA. Without the FSS who you...John and others want to unfairly criticise there would have been no DNA to analyse...

thats NO DNA....LOL


The so called unfit for purpose FSS also developed Familial DNA....do a bit of research and find out how useful that has been



The familial searching service offered to the police by several UK forensic science providers exploits the size and geographic coverage of the NDNAD and the fact that close relatives of an offender may share a significant proportion of that offender's DNA profile and will often reside in close geographic proximity to him or her. Between 2002 and 2011 Forensic Science Service Ltd. (FSS) provided familial search services to support 188 police investigations, 70 of which are still active cases. This technique, which may be used in serious crime cases or in ‘cold case’ reviews when there are few or no investigative leads, has led to the identification of 41 perpetrators or suspects.

The police wanted an efficient reasonably priced service which the FSS was failing to supply. Sentiment wasn't going to keep them using the FSS, whatever they invented.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 09:06:21 AM
The police wanted an efficient reasonably priced service which the FSS was failing to supply. Sentiment wasn't going to keep them using the FSS, whatever they invented.
The FSS closed for financial reasons...do some research. The labs that took on their work subsequently have all had problems with errors. It's not an exact science. All the DNA from Portugal was LCN. Without the FSS there would not have been any analysis
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 22, 2020, 09:08:25 AM
Just a very  clumsy attempt to rubbish a very competent organisation because it didn't find evidence against the McCanns....par for the course

Just pointing out the facts, Davel.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 22, 2020, 09:21:54 AM
Just pointing out the facts, Davel.
5  The decision to close the FSS

208.  The announcement made in December 2010 that the Forensic Science Service (FSS) was to be wound down by March 2012 was a culmination of developments and decisions taken over the past two decades. The common view appears to be that that neither the current nor previous Governments handled the FSS's situation particularly well. For example, the Centre for Forensic Investigation, Teesside University, stated that "the move into the commercial market in the early 90's found the FSS lacking and it never really adapted or was allowed to adapt its business adequately to survive".[287] In addition, we have been mindful throughout this report that the majority of the decisions that we have criticised relating to the FSS's status and restructuring, the forensics market, police in-sourcing and forensic procurement strategy were made under the previous administration. We must state our disappointment at the historical inadequacies in government decision-making that brought the FSS to its current dire financial situation. While we have been critical of the current Government's actions, it must be put on record that we consider much of the responsibility for the current problems facing the FSS to lie with previous administrations. The changes made to the FSS since it became an Executive Agency in 1991, coupled with a subsequent lack of Government understanding of the nature of the growing forensics market, meant that problems inevitably arose. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmsctech/855/85508.htm


Perhaps it would be worth your while familiarising yourself with the facts then ... a good starting point might be as detailed above.

In my opinion the fact was not the failure of the FSS.  It was the failure of Government.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 09:30:42 AM
Just pointing out the facts, Davel.

no you are not...the FSS was not closed because of its incompetence...no FSS no DNA analysis...those are the facts.
Sceptics want to rubbish any one who supports the McCanns innocence...SY....the FSS...The Germans.

The real incompetence comes from the amaral and the PJ who thought the alerts and DNA proved maddie died in the apartment and took the investigation in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 09:41:37 AM
The defunct UK Forensic Science Service was very much unfit for purpose and their dismantling evidenced this.

I think that is  a totally innaccurate and unfair statement. The FSS was a massive organisation ...not as big but like the NHS. Just because mistakes are made in the NHS does not mean its unfit for purpose. its just a matter of sour grapes imo because they didnt come up with what the portuguese wanted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 22, 2020, 09:45:15 AM
I think that is  a totally innaccurate and unfair statement. The FSS was a massive organisation ...not as big but like the NHS. Just because mistakes are made in the NHS does not mean its unfit for purpose. its just a matter of sour grapes imo because they didnt come up with what the portuguese wanted.

So the FSS made mistakes but not in this case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 09:48:18 AM
So the FSS made mistakes but not in this case.

Correct...and every large organisation makes mistakes...doesnt make them unfit for purpose....and wasnt the reason they closed.... the organisations that took over from teh FSS also made mistakes. Without the FSS none of the DNA from portugal could have been analysed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 22, 2020, 09:51:48 AM
So the FSS made mistakes but not in this case.

I don't think one can say that, unless their work has been scrutinised by other competent  bodies.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 22, 2020, 09:52:59 AM
Correct...and every large organisation makes mistakes...doesnt make them unfit for purpose....and wasnt the reason they closed.... the organisations that took over from teh FSS also made mistakes. Without the FSS none of the DNA from portugal could have been analysed

None of it links to the German suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 09:53:59 AM
None of it links to the German suspect.

might have done if the not fit for purpose PJ had kept the bedsheets
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 22, 2020, 09:57:08 AM
might have done if the not fit for purpose PJ had kept the bedsheets

History is full of mights,maybe's and if's.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 10:00:25 AM
History is full of mights,maybe's and if's.

no one is denying that...what im denying is the claim that the FSS was closed as it wasnt fit for purpose...absolute rubbish
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 22, 2020, 11:31:44 AM
I don't think one can say that, unless their work has been scrutinised by other competent  bodies.

Considering that the McCann case ocurred during the years during which concerns were raised about the FSS, I would have thought that they might have looked at the findings again, given the world-wide interest in the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 22, 2020, 11:48:58 AM
Considering that the McCann case ocurred during the years during which concerns were raised about the FSS, I would have thought that they might have looked at the findings again, given the world-wide interest in the case.

Please detail 'concerns raised' ... I for one have no idea what concerns you are referring to.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 11:55:48 AM
Considering that the McCann case ocurred during the years during which concerns were raised about the FSS, I would have thought that they might have looked at the findings again, given the world-wide interest in the case.

the concerns raised at the time were concerned with the admissibility of LCN dna due to the Omagh bombing case. I didnt see any suggestion that the analysis itself was wrong. LCN dna is not admissible as evidence in many countries  as evidence as I understand....including portugal. If im right it makes a further mockery re the portuguese case against the McCanns
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 22, 2020, 12:00:28 PM
Please detail 'concerns raised' ... I for one have no idea what concerns you are referring to.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6381969.stm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 12:03:08 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6381969.stm

that article may be innaccurate...this is what the report found..

31 January 2008
Issue: 7306 / Categories: News , Procedure & practice , Profession , Public


Low copy number DNA evidence will continue to be admissible in court, after a Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) review found noth­ing to suggest its use should be discontinued.

Last December, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) recommended a suspension of low copy number DNA analysis in criminal cases after a judge in the trial of the alleged Omagh bomber expressed concern at the scientific validity and possi­bility of cross-contamination of the technique.

The CPS reviewed current cases involving the use of evidence gathered from very small samples of DNA and has recommended that low copy DNA analysis provided by the Forensic Science Service should “remain available as potentially admissible evidence”.



https://www.newlawjournal.co.uk/content/low-copy-dna-evidence-admissible-court
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 22, 2020, 12:09:41 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6381969.stm

Snip
There is no doubt that the Forensic Science Service, since 1991, has led the world on the development of quality standards. They now have, by far, the broadest "scope of accreditation", which is the number of methods they cover in their accreditation.   https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmsctech/855/85506.htm#a18
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 22, 2020, 12:19:45 PM
no one is denying that...what im denying is the claim that the FSS was closed as it wasnt fit for purpose...absolute rubbish

In my opinion ACPO took that view, and the police moved away from the FSS to other providers. That caused losses of 2M per month and ultimately to closure. The FSS lost the confidence of it's customers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 01:47:48 PM
In my opinion ACPO took that view, and the police moved away from the FSS to other providers. That caused losses of 2M per month and ultimately to closure. The FSS lost the confidence of it's customers.

You are entitled to that opinion...an opinion based on bias..imo..what no one  is entitled to is to express as a fact the FSS was not fit for purpose
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 22, 2020, 01:58:55 PM
You are entitled to that opinion...an opinion based on bias..imo..what no one  is entitled to is to express as a fact the FSS was not fit for purpose

Ultimately it became unreliable and had to be shut down.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
Ultimately it became unreliable and had to be shut down.

Absolute tripe


 science.

Subsequently the government sought to persuade the Science and Technology Committee of the House of Commons (ST&C) that the reason for closing it was it was losing £2m a month, which the ST&C found to be untrue in a damning report produced in June 2011. Why should a constituent part of the CJS have to be profitable? Which other part of the CJS is profitable in financial terms? At a net annual cost of about £12m (the figure the ST&C found was the correct one) the FSS provided a world-class, pioneering body that was internationally respected and consulted and was 'a jewel in the crown of the CJS and an exemplary example of value for money'. The bean counters at the Home Office failed to understand that for a body providing a public service the equation is value received for funding provided
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 22, 2020, 02:20:41 PM
Just a very  clumsy attempt to rubbish a very competent organisation because it didn't find evidence against the McCanns....par for the course


GA regrets ever sending the DNA to that lab.IMO  seems very unprofessional,

snips


We confidently wait for the evaluation reports from FSS. A few days after the samples are sent, we are informed that the DNA of the blood found in the boot of the McCanns' car shows a significant match - 50% - with Gerald's, which means that it is definitely the blood of one of his children. We telephone the public minister to pass on this initial result and wait for the follow-up to the analyses and definite conclusions But the laboratory takes its time.

At our insistence, Stuart contacts the FSS and asks them if they think the Portuguese are idiots. We hear him saying: "With a lot less than that, we would have already arrested someone in England." I look at my colleagues and see that they are as stupefied as I am. In fact, in Portugal, it's not so easy to arrest someone. We explain to Stuart that the McCanns interrogations would not result in detention. According to Portuguese law, the crimes of concealment of a corpse and simulating an abduction are not liable to remanding in custody.



As for the second case, after an explanation about the DNA components in Madeleine's genetic profile, it concludes that 15 out of 19 markers in Madeleine's profile are present in the sample examined. Only 4 short of 100% reliability. The FSS specialists qualify the results as, "complex," and state that these 15 markers are not enough to conclude with certainty that it's definitely Madeleine's DNA profile, especially as Low Copy Number picked out a total of 37 in the sample. That means that at least three individuals contributed to this result.







The FSS has still not provided the result of the technical analysis of the hair found in the boot of the car. Once more, Stuart has to contact the laboratory. Nothing has been done. We want to know two things: if the hair is indeed Madeleine's, and if it comes from a living or a dead person. The FSS can only answer the first question. English colleagues present at the meeting raise the possibility of the hair being sent to other European laboratories which have the resources to clear up the second point for us: hair from a living or a dead person. But the FSS does not seem to want to part with the hair. They claim that using a colour comparison test they can establish if the hair belongs to Madeleine and in a second stage, identify the DNA profile. None of that will happen. We never find out if the hair was Madeleine's or her parents' or her brother's or her sister's, even though the laboratory has the DNA profiles of each member of the family.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 22, 2020, 02:21:40 PM
I don't see the problem. Corte Real agreed with the conclusions of the FSS when interviewed for Amaral's own documentary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 02:34:01 PM

GA regrets ever sending the DNA to that lab.IMO  seems very unprofessional,

snips


We confidently wait for the evaluation reports from FSS. A few days after the samples are sent, we are informed that the DNA of the blood found in the boot of the McCanns' car shows a significant match - 50% - with Gerald's, which means that it is definitely the blood of one of his children. We telephone the public minister to pass on this initial result and wait for the follow-up to the analyses and definite conclusions But the laboratory takes its time.

At our insistence, Stuart contacts the FSS and asks them if they think the Portuguese are idiots. We hear him saying: "With a lot less than that, we would have already arrested someone in England." I look at my colleagues and see that they are as stupefied as I am. In fact, in Portugal, it's not so easy to arrest someone. We explain to Stuart that the McCanns interrogations would not result in detention. According to Portuguese law, the crimes of concealment of a corpse and simulating an abduction are not liable to remanding in custody.



As for the second case, after an explanation about the DNA components in Madeleine's genetic profile, it concludes that 15 out of 19 markers in Madeleine's profile are present in the sample examined. Only 4 short of 100% reliability. The FSS specialists qualify the results as, "complex," and state that these 15 markers are not enough to conclude with certainty that it's definitely Madeleine's DNA profile, especially as Low Copy Number picked out a total of 37 in the sample. That means that at least three individuals contributed to this result.







The FSS has still not provided the result of the technical analysis of the hair found in the boot of the car. Once more, Stuart has to contact the laboratory. Nothing has been done. We want to know two things: if the hair is indeed Madeleine's, and if it comes from a living or a dead person. The FSS can only answer the first question. English colleagues present at the meeting raise the possibility of the hair being sent to other European laboratories which have the resources to clear up the second point for us: hair from a living or a dead person. But the FSS does not seem to want to part with the hair. They claim that using a colour comparison test they can establish if the hair belongs to Madeleine and in a second stage, identify the DNA profile. None of that will happen. We never find out if the hair was Madeleine's or her parents' or her brother's or her sister's, even though the laboratory has the DNA profiles of each member of the family.


amaral hadnt got a clue about DNA
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 02:40:15 PM
This Govt could easily make the same case against the NHS as it did againt the FSS....I'm sure you all wouldnt be take in by that. NHS privatised because its losing money.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 22, 2020, 02:51:14 PM
This Govt could easily make the same case against the NHS as it did againt the FSS....I'm sure you all wouldnt be take in by that. NHS privatised because its losing money.

The FSS was a limited company and was insolvent. Trading while insolvent creates a problem for the directors.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 03:02:49 PM
The FSS was a limited company and was insolvent. Trading while insolvent creates a problem for the directors.

was it...

Subsequently the government sought to persuade the Science and Technology Committee of the House of Commons (ST&C) that the reason for closing it was it was losing £2m a month, which the ST&C found to be untrue in a damning report produced in June 2011
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 22, 2020, 03:23:02 PM
amaral hadnt got a clue about DNA

Seems not the only one. ...what ever your opinion it is not as cut and dried as you seem to make it out to be
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 22, 2020, 03:25:39 PM
Seems not the only one. ...what ever your opinion it is not as cut and dried as you seem to make it out to be

I understand it perfectly...do you know whst LCN DNA is...do you know who developed it. Your continual claim that 15 matches is sufficient in some countries shows you dont understand it.  Do Portuguese courts accept LCN DNA as evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 22, 2020, 03:57:04 PM
amaral hadnt got a clue about DNA

No, I agree. We had a thread on this somewhere on here.

He clearly didn't understand Lowe's email explanation of basic DNA.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 22, 2020, 04:03:28 PM
No, I agree. We had a thread on this somewhere on here.

He clearly didn't understand Lowe's email explanation of basic DNA.
Well unless he'd written it in Portuguese, I don't expect he would.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 22, 2020, 04:17:38 PM
Well unless he'd written it in Portuguese, I don't expect he would.
What a shame no one thought to translate it for him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 22, 2020, 04:22:35 PM
Well unless he'd written it in Portuguese, I don't expect he would.

If he didn't understand it, then perhaps he shouldn't have made it appear as if he did.

A summary translation into Portuguese was done by João Carlos, possibly in a hurry, but missed a few details out, but which Amaral noticed.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm#p10p2615
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 22, 2020, 08:40:19 PM
Carana you spoke earlier about comments SF made about Amaral misleading her before she took part in the Netflix. Could you provide a cite please ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 23, 2020, 07:30:17 AM
Carana you spoke earlier about comments SF made about Amaral misleading her before she took part in the Netflix. Could you provide a cite please ?

That could be difficult at the moment.

I can provide a screen-cap posted by someone, but when I checked the screen-cap, it doesn't display the date of the post and it's not where I originally saw it.

I was following Joana's blog around the time of the "ask-the-dogs" interview. It was announced that Sandra F was going to be interviewed on TV (which she was), but - unusually - there was no translated transcription. As numerous comments were posted asking for one, someone (whose username I recognised from 3A and seemed to be in the relatively moderate spectrum of the parents-what-dunnit camp) eventually posted a summary.

It's possible that it was some time after the "dogs" interview, but was most definitely years before the Netflix documentary.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 23, 2020, 12:35:59 PM
That could be difficult at the moment.

I can provide a screen-cap posted by someone, but when I checked the screen-cap, it doesn't display the date of the post and it's not where I originally saw it.

I was following Joana's blog around the time of the "ask-the-dogs" interview. It was announced that Sandra F was going to be interviewed on TV (which she was), but - unusually - there was no translated transcription. As numerous comments were posted asking for one, someone (whose username I recognised from 3A and seemed to be in the relatively moderate spectrum of the parents-what-dunnit camp) eventually posted a summary.

It's possible that it was some time after the "dogs" interview, but was most definitely years before the Netflix documentary.

I understand your difficulty Carana but on such an important point if you can’t provide a cite I’m afraid it’s forum etiquette to withdraw your claim.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 23, 2020, 01:04:48 PM
I understand your difficulty Carana but on such an important point if you can’t provide a cite I’m afraid it’s forum etiquette to withdraw your claim.
Except from memory Carana is correct.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 23, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
I understand your difficulty Carana but on such an important point if you can’t provide a cite I’m afraid it’s forum etiquette to withdraw your claim.

Here's a screen-grab from elsewhere (a forum, not the blog that I'm almost certain I first saw it on) that someone found for me, but as I said, it doesn't show the date that message was posted, nor by whom - aside from the fact that it was a moderator. And, despite the red colour scheme, it's not from here.
(Edited for typos)

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 23, 2020, 02:57:50 PM
Again, my recollection was that it was around the time of the "dogs" interview, although I could be wrong. In context, it could have well been a few days after the "dogs" as there were some uncomplimentary remarks about Sandra.

I tried to check back on Twitter, but the blogger changed accounts.

What's left is a tweet by Sandra F:

Sandra Felgueiras
@SandraFelgas
O que mais me irrita nestes fóruns é a quantidade de gente que fala, fala sem perceber nada de nada!
Translated from Portuguese by [Google]
What most irritates me in these forums is the amount of people who speak, speak without realizing anything!
10:30 PM · Nov 13, 2009·
https://twitter.com/SandraFelgas/status/5691510457
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 23, 2020, 03:18:47 PM
I don't see what's particularly important about it. All I was saying was that, from memory, Sandra Felgueiras' criticism predated Netflix by quite some time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 23, 2020, 03:24:49 PM
I don't see what's particularly important about it. All I was saying was that, from memory, Sandra Felgueiras' criticism predated Netflix by quite some time.
Carana, it's of utmost importance.  You're not allowed to recall things from memory or express an opinion without a cite to back it up.  It's a new law and if you break it you must withdraw the claim or be publicly humiliated.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 23, 2020, 03:33:32 PM
Carana, it's of utmost importance.  You're not allowed to recall things from memory or express an opinion without a cite to back it up.  It's a new law and if you break it you must withdraw the claim or be publicly humiliated.

Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything: people do have a tendency to cite things "from memory", and I agree that memories can get distorted with time. And sometimes, distorted memories get repeated as fact... so I accept Faith's comment.

However, I don't see anything critically important about it. lol
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 23, 2020, 03:47:37 PM
what is clear is that SF has accused amaral of lying to her....thats whats important
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 23, 2020, 04:06:28 PM
The line above from some poster:

"... Bouncy, since this an insert in a talk show in Portuguese, with no English subtitles, I can see it's no easy task to get the footage on here."

Then follows the mod's summary, talking about Sandra's comments re asking pertinent questions one year on from when arguido status was lifted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 23, 2020, 07:02:24 PM
Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything: people do have a tendency to cite things "from memory", and I agree that memories can get distorted with time. And sometimes, distorted memories get repeated as fact... so I accept Faith's comment.

However, I don't see anything critically important about it. lol

Thank you for your efforts to find the cite however it’s obvious that there is absolutely no evidence that SF expressed any doubts about the investigation before the ‘dogs’ interview. She may have expressed doubts before the Netflix documentary but there is nothing in the public domain that suggests that.

For me her changing of sides is purely cynical.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 23, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
Thank you for your efforts to find the cite however it’s obvious that there is absolutely no evidence that SF expressed any doubts about the investigation before the ‘dogs’ interview. She may have expressed doubts before the Netflix documentary but there is nothing in the public domain that suggests that.

For me her changing of sides is purely cynical.

I think it's blatantly obvious she changed sides because she felt she was lied to...evidence being...Amaral didn't understand the dna
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 23, 2020, 07:23:08 PM
I think it's blatantly obvious she changed sides because she felt she was lied to...evidence being...Amaral didn't understand the dna
If he 'didn't understand the DNA', then how could he possibly be lying?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 23, 2020, 07:25:47 PM
If he 'didn't understand the DNA', then how could he possibly be lying?

Read my post again....I never said he was lying. I realise he's just dim...Sandra thought he was deliberately lying it seems
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 23, 2020, 07:28:03 PM
Read my post again....I never said he was lying. I realise he's just dim...Sandra thought he was deliberately lying it seems
She thought she was being lied to, so she changed horses, yet you think he was simply mistaken?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 23, 2020, 07:39:23 PM
She thought she was being lied to, so she changed horses, yet you think he was simply mistaken?


I think its clear he simply hadnt got  a clue as  may well not had much experience in having to deal with evidence in the past
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 23, 2020, 07:48:43 PM

I think its clear he simply hadnt got  a clue as  may well not had much experience in having to deal with evidence in the past
So he 'didn't have a clue', yet somehow, incongruously, was persuasive enough to beguile this crack investigative reporter, despite her obviously knowing him professionally prior to this case?
In the immortal words of Aretha, Who's Zoomin' Who?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 23, 2020, 07:50:01 PM

I think its clear he simply hadnt got  a clue as  may well not had much experience in having to deal with evidence in the past

He never needed Evidence in the past.  He managed very well without it, thank you very much.
.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 23, 2020, 07:58:28 PM
He never needed Evidence in the past.  He managed very well without it, thank you very much.
.
The man's an utter genius legend dude. Don't need no evidence, yo, jus cruisin' on up to the judge, pinch the frame of those Randolph Aviator's down, glance, wink, tip the fedora at the jury and mosey on right back out the door.
I can see the fascination now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 23, 2020, 08:45:20 PM
Carana, it's of utmost importance.  You're not allowed to recall things from memory or express an opinion without a cite to back it up.  It's a new law and if you break it you must withdraw the claim or be publicly humiliated.
Have you got the cite for that so called "New Law"?   You don't want to be humiliated do you!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 23, 2020, 09:16:10 PM
Have you got the cite for that so called "New Law"?   You don't want to be humiliated do you!
Yes I do, please proceed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 23, 2020, 10:48:06 PM
She thought she was being lied to, so she changed horses, yet you think he was simply mistaken?

Sandra Felgueiras realised that she had been used as a patsy by Amaral.  As a journalist of some integrity she was rightly outraged when she discovered she had been used to spread misinformation about all aspects of the case being built against the McCanns.
She trusted her source implicitly, why wouldn't she?  Her source was Amaral.

I don't think she necessarily 'changed horses'.  I think she is just reporting what she believes is the truth as she always has, only now I think she will be taking more care with regard to the integrity of her primary sources.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 23, 2020, 10:54:50 PM
Sandra Felgueiras realised that she had been used as a patsy by Amaral.  As a journalist of some integrity she was rightly outraged when she discovered she had been used to spread misinformation about all aspects of the case being built against the McCanns.
She trusted her source implicitly, why wouldn't she?  Her source was Amaral.

I don't think she necessarily 'changed horses'.  I think she is just reporting what she believes is the truth as she always has, only now I think she will be taking more care with regard to the integrity of her primary sources.

I’m sure I’d be outraged too if I thought I’d been shown to be a fool to the whole world.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 23, 2020, 11:10:18 PM
Anyone who put their faith and belief in Amaral now looks incredibly silly IMO. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 23, 2020, 11:17:18 PM
Anyone who put their faith and belief in Amaral now looks incredibly silly IMO.

Yeah, because a peado had the audacity to use a mobile phone in PDL, which conclusively proves that Maddie was abducted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 23, 2020, 11:43:16 PM
Yeah, because a peado had the audacity to use a mobile phone in PDL, which conclusively proves that Maddie was abducted.
Now you’re the one looking silly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 23, 2020, 11:55:39 PM
Anyone who put their faith and belief in Amaral now looks incredibly silly IMO.

At least Felgueiras was able to salvage her dignity and her integrity when she did see through him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 24, 2020, 12:31:45 AM
Thank you for your efforts to find the cite however it’s obvious that there is absolutely no evidence that SF expressed any doubts about the investigation before the ‘dogs’ interview. She may have expressed doubts before the Netflix documentary but there is nothing in the public domain that suggests that.

For me her changing of sides is purely cynical.
I've seen evidence of Sandra Felguiras' anger at Amaral disinforming her too.  It was quite some time ago, wwell before Netflix.  But I haven't a clue where to look for it.

To be Quite Honest I fear it has gone to the Evidence Munching Machine (EMM) put in place to alter the truth and prevent Justice  &%^^
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 24, 2020, 12:52:18 AM
If he 'didn't understand the DNA', then how could he possibly be lying?

I think VS was being polite.

Amaral is infamous for his lies.  Please do not challenge that; we all know it.  He is also very good at making stories up, very creative in fact.

We know that he has at least one notch on his gun along with a criminal conviction for himself.  I must admit I wonder if he was so keen for another notch, that he kinda embellished the DNA results ?

I prefer that analysis, and I think that you would too, to the other that keeps popping into my head.   $65*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 24, 2020, 01:14:27 AM
At least Felgueiras was able to salvage her dignity and her integrity when she did see through him.

Any journalist who has prostrated themselves before the world’s public and admitted that they didn’t possess  the judgement to see that they were being lied to, just to earn a buck, has no dignity...or indeed integrity.

Poor Sandra.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 24, 2020, 01:17:49 AM
I've seen evidence of Sandra Felguiras' anger at Amaral disinforming her too.  It was quite some time ago, wwell before Netflix.  But I haven't a clue where to look for it.

To be Quite Honest I fear it has gone to the Evidence Munching Machine (EMM) put in place to alter the truth and prevent Justice  &%^^

As with Carana it against forum etiquette to make a claim you cannot provide evidence for.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 24, 2020, 02:02:02 AM
As with Carana it against forum etiquette to make a claim you cannot provide evidence for.

I couldn't care less about Forum Etiquette in cases like this when articles/ words are being regularly deleted to falsely alter the FACTS of the case.   

And if you care one iota about JUSTICE, neither should you.   


FGS enough people saw it .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 24, 2020, 04:41:33 AM
Yes I do, please proceed.
OK let's read it.  Cite please.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 24, 2020, 07:21:17 AM
At least Felgueiras was able to salvage her dignity and her integrity when she did see through him.
....by appearing to be a fickle, shallow opportunist - but I can't blame her; integrity is not a prerequisite in her line of work.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 24, 2020, 07:31:13 AM
....by appearing to be a fickle, shallow opportunist - but I can't blame her; integrity is not a prerequisite in her line of work.
She came across as principled, quietly furious and very honest to me, and to most casual observers I have no doubt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 07:42:40 AM
....by appearing to be a fickle, shallow opportunist - but I can't blame her; integrity is not a prerequisite in her line of work.

Keep up the good work at showing what a totally biased lot sceptics are. Anyone who supports the McCanns is mercilessly attacked...Sandra has lossed her looks and HCW looks like Mr Bean.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 24, 2020, 08:11:03 AM
Sandra may have lost her looks (she looked ok to me) but she has clearly gained in wisdom.  Good on her.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 24, 2020, 08:47:12 AM
Keep up the good work at showing what a totally biased lot sceptics are. Anyone who supports the McCanns is mercilessly attacked...Sandra has lossed her looks and HCW looks like Mr Bean.
The hypocrisy is the most amusing part of this.....whatever it is.
Mr. Bean? I'll take your word for it. I haven't clapped eyes on the man.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 08:51:23 AM
The hypocrisy is the most amusing part of this.....whatever it is.
Mr. Bean? I'll take your word for it. I haven't clapped eyes on the man.

Hypocrisy in what way...what do the looks of either Sandra or HCW have to do with the acse or their ability to do their job.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 24, 2020, 09:31:16 AM
The hypocrisy is the most amusing part of this.....whatever it is.
Mr. Bean? I'll take your word for it. I haven't clapped eyes on the man.
How have you been able to watch the documentary or see the news reports or read the papers or even this forum without glimpsing HCW, yet are sufficiently knowledgeable about some Portuguese journalist as to be able to slag off her appearance?  It's a miracle!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 24, 2020, 10:12:32 AM
Hypocrisy in what way...what do the looks of either Sandra or HCW have to do with the acse or their ability to do their job.
You tell me, you seem more interested.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 24, 2020, 10:18:48 AM
You tell me, you seem more interested.

A perfectly logical question.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 24, 2020, 10:37:31 AM
Carana you spoke earlier about comments SF made about Amaral misleading her before she took part in the Netflix. Could you provide a cite please ?

I've now found a long discussion thread on it, if you're interested.

The interview with Sandra Felgueiras was a programme called Praça de Alegria, (RTP) and aired on Nov 11, 2009 (i.e., as I thought, a few days after the "ask-the-dogs" interview).

Apologies to Joana if she did in fact upload it, as promised, and do a translation of the transcript, but I've never been able to find it.

(You'll have to scroll down a bit in the comments, as it's under an article / blog entry garnering support for a petition for Amaral.)

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/11/goncalo-amaral-receives-support-on.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 24, 2020, 10:40:53 AM
My original point was that Sandra "woke up" many years before Netflix was even a twinkle in anyone's eye.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 10:50:19 AM
You tell me, you seem more interested.

I'm not surprised you dont know the answer...it's absolutely nothing
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 24, 2020, 11:01:47 AM
I'm not surprised you dont know the answer...it's absolutely nothing
Bully for you. Told ya it means more to you than me, I can't even remember the question.

I do know that Snr Amaral will now be inundated with interview requests on the back of this latest fiasco, so - EL CHERCHINGO!
And fair play to him, nice bit of karma rolling on back.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 11:10:29 AM
Bully for you. Told ya it means more to you than me, I can't even remember the question.

I do know that Snr Amaral will now be inundated with interview requests on the back of this latest fiasco, so - EL CHERCHINGO!
And fair play to him, nice bit of karma rolling on back.

I hope he is....I look forward to hearing what he has to say in his defence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 24, 2020, 11:23:38 AM
I hope he is....I look forward to hearing what he has to say in his defence
Defence of what? Even if he's proved wrong, which is doubtful, he can just shrug and move on. Maybe write another book. I doubt he gives two short ones, not with the cashola continuing to roll in.
Same for Sandra; fair play, wring it dry, everyone else is.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 24, 2020, 11:31:54 AM
I hope he is....I look forward to hearing what he has to say in his defence

Could be I was right all along IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 11:34:56 AM
Defence of what? Even if he's proved wrong, which is doubtful, he can just shrug and move on. Maybe write another book. I doubt he gives two short ones, not with the cashola continuing to roll in.
Same for Sandra; fair play, wring it dry, everyone else is.

Hes limited to what he can say otherwise he may well find himself back in court...I dont expect you to understand or agree with that. He hasn't repeated his crackpot theory for some time now.. have you noticed how with CB evidence is important...but as regards the McCanns its considerecd incidental
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 24, 2020, 11:39:48 AM
Hes limited to what he can say otherwise he may well find himself back in court...I dont expect you to understand or agree with that. He hasn't repeated his crackpot theory for some time now.. have you noticed how with CB evidence is important...but as regards the McCanns its considerecd incidental
No.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 24, 2020, 12:03:46 PM
My original point was that Sandra "woke up" many years before Netflix was even a twinkle in anyone's eye.

Or if, as those commentating suspect, she and RTP had attracted the attention of the McCann's lawyers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 24, 2020, 12:04:42 PM
Hes limited to what he can say otherwise he may well find himself back in court...I dont expect you to understand or agree with that. He hasn't repeated his crackpot theory for some time now.. have you noticed how with CB evidence is important...but as regards the McCanns its considerecd incidental

Maybe you didn't notice but Amaral successfully defended against the previous McCann libel action and gained huge publicity and support in doing so?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 24, 2020, 12:49:17 PM
Hes limited to what he can say otherwise he may well find himself back in court...I dont expect you to understand or agree with that. He hasn't repeated his crackpot theory for some time now.. have you noticed how with CB evidence is important...but as regards the McCanns its considerecd incidental

I have seen no evidence of Amaral being constrained by fear of the courts. Is that your wishful thinking? There may be more evidence than the Germans are sharing, but at the moment there's less than the PJ had against the McCanns. It was possible to prove that they entered 5A, for a start.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 12:52:36 PM
Maybe you didn't notice but Amaral successfully defended against the previous McCann libel action and gained huge publicity and support in doing so?

Its gone to the ECHR....If the ECHR rule against portugal then anything further amaral says can be the subject of a new case . Most posters dont seem to understand this. Portugal has  avery pooor record at the ECHR
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 12:54:50 PM
I have seen no evidence of Amaral being constrained by fear of the courts. Is that your wishful thinking? There may be more evidence than the Germans are sharing, but at the moment there's less than the PJ had against the McCanns. It was possible to prove that they entered 5A, for a start.

I have seen evidence. in his last interview amaral dint mention his theory...he criticised the childcare...he criticised Tannner...dont you remember disussing it then...perhaps you've forgotten
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 12:56:48 PM
I have seen no evidence of Amaral being constrained by fear of the courts. Is that your wishful thinking? There may be more evidence than the Germans are sharing, but at the moment there's less than the PJ had against the McCanns. It was possible to prove that they entered 5A, for a start.

I would say theres more against Breukner. pedro da Carmo said there is no evidence aginst the McCanns . what evidence do you think there is...i dont see any real evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2020, 01:01:04 PM
I would say theres more against Breukner. pedro da Carmo said there is no evidence aginst the McCanns . what evidence do you think there is...i dont see any real evidence.

Martin Smiths statement is evidence, & it's also real, by way of the fact that it definitely exists.

You might not like that, & neither does Pedro for some reason. But it's still evidence.

What's this real evidence against Brueckner?

That he used a mobile phone?.............So did the McCanns.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 01:05:33 PM
Martin Smiths statement is evidence, & it's also real, by way of the fact that it definitely exists.

You might not like that, & neither does Pedro for some reason. But it's still evidence.

What's this real evidence against Brueckner?

That he used a mobile phone?.............So did the McCanns.

It might be evidence but its very weak unreliable evidence. There is evidence Gerry was at the tapas at that time.

I wont bother discussing thew evidence against Breukner...we can just wait and see.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 24, 2020, 01:08:46 PM
Its gone to the ECHR....If the ECHR rule against portugal then anything further amaral says can be the subject of a new case . Most posters dont seem to understand this. Portugal has  avery pooor record at the ECHR

I think most posters understand that you are guessing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2020, 01:11:18 PM
It might be evidence but its very weak unreliable evidence. There is evidence Gerry was at the tapas at that time.

I wont bother discussing thew evidence against Breukner...we can just wait and see.

There's also evidence the alarm wasn't raised at the time claimed by the McCanns, which means Gerry might not have been at the tapas at the time.

And there's no point discussing the evidence against Brueckner, because there isn't any.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 01:13:57 PM
I think most posters understand that you are guessing.


What you think is of no consequence. I  know exactly what i'm talking about and said this before it was reported that the McCanns might take amaral to court again. Its quite simple.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 24, 2020, 01:22:33 PM

What you think is of no consequence. I  know exactly what i'm talking about and said this before it was reported that the McCanns might take amaral to court again. Its quite simple.

Might being the operative word, of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 01:23:36 PM
I think most posters understand that you are guessing.

I'll explain it simply. The SC ruling covers any statements made prior to the writ being taken out. The SC went to great lengths to show they complied with ECHR law. If the ECHR rule amarals statements were libellous ....then the M
McCanns can go back to the portuguese court armed with that ruling for any statements made after the issue of the first writ.  That is not guesswork its logic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 01:24:27 PM
Might being the operative word, of course.

So its considered a possibility.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 24, 2020, 01:29:53 PM
La la la.  What a to do.  No evidence against anyone, it seems.  And certainly not against The McCanns.

I can't be bothered to argue the point between Evidence and Proof.  Davel has done a more than adequate job on that.

None of this bothers me at all.  But just occasionally the nastiness gets through to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2020, 01:32:13 PM
La la la.  What a to do.  No evidence against anyone, it seems.  And certainly not against The McCanns.

I can't be bothered to argue the point between Evidence and Proof.  Davel has done a more than adequate job on that.

None of this bothers me at all.  But just occasionally the nastiness gets through to me.

Yes, if you ignore the evidence against the McCanns, then there isn't any evidence against the McCanns.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 24, 2020, 01:45:10 PM
Its gone to the ECHR....If the ECHR rule against portugal then anything further amaral says can be the subject of a new case . Most posters dont seem to understand this. Portugal has  avery pooor record at the ECHR

IF but up to now they haven't ...so best bet is waiting to see the outcome instead of your opinion.

You could be wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 24, 2020, 02:00:55 PM
I'll explain it simply. The SC ruling covers any statements made prior to the writ being taken out. The SC went to great lengths to show they complied with ECHR law. If the ECHR rule amarals statements were libellous ....then the M
McCanns can go back to the portuguese court armed with that ruling for any statements made after the issue of the first writ.  That is not guesswork its logic.

With respect, your explanations have no reliability imo. Particularly as you recently demonstrated your inability to understand a fairly simple piece of text in English (also imo).

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11174.msg610993#msg610993
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 24, 2020, 02:07:00 PM
Yes, if you ignore the evidence against the McCanns, then there isn't any evidence against the McCanns.
And if you ignore the evidence against Bruckner then there isn't any evidence against Bruckner.
"What evidence?" asks Wonderfulspam
Rinse, spin and repeat ad infinitum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 02:13:21 PM
With respect, your explanations have no reliability imo. Particularly as you recently demonstrated your inability to understand a fairly simple piece of text in English (also imo).

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11174.msg610993#msg610993

and imo  your opinions and understanding of evidence has no reliability when your bias means you cannot accept that smoking causes lung cancer
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 24, 2020, 02:27:05 PM
I've now found a long discussion thread on it, if you're interested.

The interview with Sandra Felgueiras was a programme called Praça de Alegria, (RTP) and aired on Nov 11, 2009 (i.e., as I thought, a few days after the "ask-the-dogs" interview).

Apologies to Joana if she did in fact upload it, as promised, and do a translation of the transcript, but I've never been able to find it.

(You'll have to scroll down a bit in the comments, as it's under an article / blog entry garnering support for a petition for Amaral.)

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/11/goncalo-amaral-receives-support-on.html

So are you saying that from July 2008 when all journalists had access to a disc with the files on them, in Portuguese so no need to translate, to the ‘ask the dogs’ interview in November 2011 SF had no clue that she had been lied to by Amaral and it was, coincidentally, just a few days later that she found out ? Really ? A journalist of the calibre of the one being praised here did not have the professional curiosity to find out ?

As to your cite, people write all sorts in comments. You have Portuguese supporters in your midst, Pedro on JATKN and Maria on Rosiepops forum, didn’t she go rogue, spring to mind....if the interview with SF was so groundbreaking why wasn’t it translated by them ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2020, 02:37:37 PM
And if you ignore the evidence against Bruckner then there isn't any evidence against Bruckner.
"What evidence?" asks Wonderfulspam
Rinse, spin and repeat ad infinitum.

Yes. What evidence?
I've invited members to make a thread detailing the evidence against Brueckner & no one took me up on the offer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 24, 2020, 03:05:22 PM
Yes. What evidence?
I've invited members to make a thread detailing the evidence against Brueckner & no one took me up on the offer.

You do it.  The choice is yours.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 24, 2020, 03:11:39 PM
Bully for you. Told ya it means more to you than me, I can't even remember the question.

I do know that Snr Amaral will now be inundated with interview requests on the back of this latest fiasco, so - EL CHERCHINGO!
And fair play to him, nice bit of karma rolling on back.

Are you a fan of Amaral?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 24, 2020, 03:29:21 PM
So are you saying that from July 2008 when all journalists had access to a disc with the files on them, in Portuguese so no need to translate, to the ‘ask the dogs’ interview in November 2011 SF had no clue that she had been lied to by Amaral and it was, coincidentally, just a few days later that she found out ? Really ? A journalist of the calibre of the one being praised here did not have the professional curiosity to find out ?

As to your cite, people write all sorts in comments. You have Portuguese supporters in your midst, Pedro on JATKN and Maria on Rosiepops forum, didn’t she go rogue, spring to mind....if the interview with SF was so groundbreaking why wasn’t it translated by them ?

I'm not sure why you're referring to November 2011.

- The case was archived on 21 July, 2008.

- Amaral's book came out on 24 July, 2008.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann#cite_note-204

- The CD of the files was apparently released during the first week of August 2008
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/05/madeleinemccann.portugal

I don't particularly feel like wading through the entire Netflix series again, but I believe Sandra said she'd gone through the files (particularly the DNA) in October , I presume in 2008. I'm happy to stand corrected, if anyone else feels like checking.

The "ask-the-dogs" interview took place in London on 3 November 2009 and was shown on RTP on 5 Nov .
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/chronological-index-november-2009-t5162.html

- And, as I said earlier, she was interviewed on the Plaça de Alegria chat show on 11 Nov, 2009.

Numerous disapproving comments by Amaral's supporters were posted on that thread concerning that interview, which - helpfully - offered the gist.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 24, 2020, 03:29:34 PM
Are you a fan of Amaral?

what would that have to do with you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 24, 2020, 03:33:04 PM
Are you a fan of Amaral?
I shouldn't answer a question with a question, but are you a fan of Coldplay?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 03:34:22 PM
Martin Smiths statement is evidence, & it's also real, by way of the fact that it definitely exists.

You might not like that, & neither does Pedro for some reason. But it's still evidence.

What's this real evidence against Brueckner?

That he used a mobile phone?.............So did the McCanns.

Martin Smith's sighting is no more real evidence than the thousands of sightings of Maddie...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 24, 2020, 03:41:04 PM
Martin Smith's sighting is no more real evidence than the thousands of sightings of Maddie...
Apart from the fact that it's contemporaneous, first hand, eye witness, collectively corroborated, taken seriously, transcribed in to an official statement / witness testimony, impartial, pertinent to the investigation, robustly upheld by the witnesses and thoroughly investigated.

I now see where your skewed view of evidence originates, if you think an eye witness statement is of the same or less evidential value as a tin foil hat armchair (or dentist chair) detective's ramblings.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 03:55:04 PM
Apart from the fact that it's contemporaneous, first hand, eye witness, collectively corroborated, taken seriously, transcribed in to an official statement / witness testimony, impartial, pertinent to the investigation, robustly upheld by the witnesses and thoroughly investigated.

I now see where your skewed view of evidence originates, if you think an eye witness statement is of the same or less evidential value as a tin foil hat armchair (or dentist chair) detective's ramblings.

No more reliable..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 24, 2020, 03:56:58 PM
No more reliable..
Which is the same as ≤
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 24, 2020, 04:26:55 PM
I'm not sure why you're referring to November 2011.

- The case was archived on 21 July, 2008.

- Amaral's book came out on 24 July, 2008.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann#cite_note-204

- The CD of the files was apparently released during the first week of August 2008
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/05/madeleinemccann.portugal

I don't particularly feel like wading through the entire Netflix series again, but I believe Sandra said she'd gone through the files (particularly the DNA) in October , I presume in 2008. I'm happy to stand corrected, if anyone else feels like checking.

The "ask-the-dogs" interview took place in London on 3 November 2009 and was shown on RTP on 5 Nov .
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/chronological-index-november-2009-t5162.html

- And, as I said earlier, she was interviewed on the Plaça de Alegria chat show on 11 Nov, 2009.

Numerous disapproving comments by Amaral's supporters were posted on that thread concerning that interview, which - helpfully - offered the gist.

Apologies I got the 11 and 9 mixed up.

So are you still maintaining that SF didn’t know that she’d allegedly been lied until after the ‘ask the dogs’ interview?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 04:31:05 PM
Which is the same as ≤

all are relatively unreliable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2020, 05:13:09 PM
You do it.  The choice is yours.

I'm not the one claiming there's evidence against him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 24, 2020, 05:41:03 PM
I'm not the one claiming there's evidence against him.

Then shut up about it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 24, 2020, 05:41:58 PM
Apart from the fact that it's contemporaneous, first hand, eye witness, collectively corroborated, taken seriously, transcribed in to an official statement / witness testimony, impartial, pertinent to the investigation, robustly upheld by the witnesses and thoroughly investigated.

I now see where your skewed view of evidence originates, if you think an eye witness statement is of the same or less evidential value as a tin foil hat armchair (or dentist chair) detective's ramblings.
The Germans say have eye witness testimony that Bruckner was bragging in a bar that he knew what happened to Madeleine McCann.  First hand eyewitnesses, collectively collaborated, taken seriously, transcribed into an official statement, pertinent to the investigation and thoroughly investigated.  I trust you accept this IS evidence against Bruckner? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2020, 05:43:11 PM
Then shut up about it.

No, you shut up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 24, 2020, 05:47:07 PM
No, you shut up.

I haven't said anything against this man.  I believe that he is innocent until proven guilty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 24, 2020, 05:51:14 PM
I'm not sure why you're referring to November 2011.

- The case was archived on 21 July, 2008.

- Amaral's book came out on 24 July, 2008.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann#cite_note-204

- The CD of the files was apparently released during the first week of August 2008
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/05/madeleinemccann.portugal

I don't particularly feel like wading through the entire Netflix series again, but I believe Sandra said she'd gone through the files (particularly the DNA) in October , I presume in 2008. I'm happy to stand corrected, if anyone else feels like checking.

The "ask-the-dogs" interview took place in London on 3 November 2009 and was shown on RTP on 5 Nov .
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/chronological-index-november-2009-t5162.html

- And, as I said earlier, she was interviewed on the Plaça de Alegria chat show on 11 Nov, 2009.

Numerous disapproving comments by Amaral's supporters were posted on that thread concerning that interview, which - helpfully - offered the gist.

Hi all, I'll upload Sandra Felgueiras appearance at the RTP show 'Praça da Alegria' as soon as possible. [you won't like it though...]  Morais  Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:06:00 pm

I knew about and remembered the badly publicised link you were looking for initially, Carana. and I believe we had the same sort of discussion about it on the forum some time ago.

From the posts generated by Morais Portuguese followers it can be seen that they have already viewed the interview in which Sandra Felgueiras had complained about Amaral's misrepresentation of the DNA results and they didn't like it at all.
Which is why she warned her English speakers they "won't like it" either.

Probably the reason Sandra Fergueilas wasn't evicted from the gallery years before she fell from grace was the suppression of the truth.  But just because Morais denialism didn't allow the promised translation to be added to her collection of transcripts didn't mean it didn't happen.
It very obviously did.

But at a time of the ostriches sticking their heads into the sand about Amaral's prior knowledge of Brueckner etc. what an eminently ridiculous thing for sceptics to pounce on as a diversion.
I don't think the Brueckner saga is going to go away because Morais chooses to ignore it.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 24, 2020, 05:54:50 PM
Apologies I got the 11 and 9 mixed up.

So are you still maintaining that SF didn’t know that she’d allegedly been lied until after the ‘ask the dogs’ interview?

Can you refer to where I've ever said she didn't know until after the "dogs" interview?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 24, 2020, 07:50:13 PM
I have seen no evidence of Amaral being constrained by fear of the courts. Is that your wishful thinking? There may be more evidence than the Germans are sharing, but at the moment there's less than the PJ had against the McCanns. It was possible to prove that they entered 5A, for a start.
That can't be evidence.  If they live there, of course they will be within the residence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 24, 2020, 07:54:34 PM
I would say theres more against Breukner. pedro da Carmo said there is no evidence aginst the McCanns . what evidence do you think there is...i dont see any real evidence.
He said no evidence at the moment.  Things have changed since then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 24, 2020, 08:06:05 PM
Can you refer to where I've ever said she didn't know until after the "dogs" interview?

So you think that she did know before the interview but gave the parents a thoroughly hard time because.... ?

Further if she knew that Amaral was lying to her about the forensics ie the cellular matter taken from the apartment...why ask about the dog’s alerts ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 24, 2020, 08:07:40 PM
That can't be evidence.  If they live there, of course they will be within the residence.

How very clever of you to have spotted that.  I missed it.  No really, I did.  But then it is pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 24, 2020, 08:12:31 PM
How very clever of you to have spotted that.  I missed it.  No really, I did.  But then it is pretty obvious.
I thought so too. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 24, 2020, 08:15:08 PM
So you think that she did know before the interview but gave the parents a thoroughly hard time because.... ?

Further is she knew that Amaral was lying to her about the forensics ie the cellular matter taken from the apartment...why ask about the dog’s alerts ?
You'd be in two minds wouldn't you.  You have began to doubt your main source, but could there still be some facts from that source?   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 24, 2020, 08:41:40 PM
The concept on journos giving their subjects a hard time is hardly a new one, that’s what they are paid to do.    SF could have been playing devil’s advocate in the Ask the Dogs interview, she didn’t necessarily have to believe 100% the McCanns were guilty when she asked the questions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 24, 2020, 08:46:41 PM
The concept on journos giving their subjects a hard time is hardly a new one, that’s what they are paid to do.    SF could have been playing devil’s advocate in the Ask the Dogs interview, she didn’t necessarily have to believe 100% the McCanns were guilty when she asked the questions.

I thought she was alright in that Interview.  Gerry got cross because she was asking questions that he wasn't allowed to answer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 24, 2020, 08:59:08 PM
I thought she was alright in that Interview.  Gerry got cross because she was asking questions that he wasn't allowed to answer.

No this was the interview after the parents arguido status had been lifted. The one your thinking about I think is where they couldn’t give an example of a sighting they thought might have been their daughter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 24, 2020, 09:06:23 PM
No this was the interview after the parents arguido status had been lifted. The one your thinking about I think is where they couldn’t give an example of a sighting they thought might have been their daughter.

Does any of this matter any more?  I personally never paid much attention to any of these Interviews, no matter the Nationality.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 24, 2020, 09:16:29 PM
He said no evidence at the moment.  Things have changed since then.

He didnt say no evidence at the moment...he said no evidence. Whats changed. Stick to the truth or explain you are speculating
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 24, 2020, 11:47:09 PM
He didnt say no evidence at the moment...he said no evidence. Whats changed. Stick to the truth or explain you are speculating
I distinctly remember Do Carmo saying "no evidence at this point in time".  Which made it possible for new evidence to appear in the future.  Are you denying him saying something along those lines?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 24, 2020, 11:53:08 PM
I distinctly remember Do Carmo saying "no evidence at this point in time".  Which made it possible for new evidence to appear in the future.  Are you denying him saying something along those lines?

Has there been any new evidence might be more to the point.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 24, 2020, 11:57:48 PM
I distinctly remember Do Carmo saying "no evidence at this point in time".  Which made it possible for new evidence to appear in the future.  Are you denying him saying something along those lines?
Cite please
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 24, 2020, 11:59:23 PM
I distinctly remember Do Carmo saying "no evidence at this point in time".  Which made it possible for new evidence to appear in the future.  Are you denying him saying something along those lines?

The BBC panorama documentary "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by BBC Panorama."  So the link to his actual words is no longer available via the link I used.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 12:02:16 AM
Cite please
The BBC panorama documentary "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by BBC Panorama."  So the link to his actual words is no longer available via the link I used.

"His name was "Do Carmo"  -  there are several references on the forum to what he said previously http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9555.msg462965#msg462965
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 25, 2020, 12:03:37 AM
Portugal Supreme Court made it crystal clear that the McCanns have NEVER been cleared.  Nobody has evidence to overturn anything in an unsolved case!

"And let not be said, too, that the appellants were cleared by the order of filing the criminal proceedings."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 12:06:37 AM
Cite please
"“There are no new elements at the moment that would allow for the reopening of the inquiry,” Pedro do Carmo, the deputy head of the criminal police department, told AFP.
https://nationalpost.com/news/portuguese-police-say-new-british-evidence-not-enough-to-reopen-madeleine-mccann-case

It looks like the documentary is still available here https://youtu.be/wIR-Ku890ss  - No just the first 2 minutes of it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 25, 2020, 12:29:46 AM
Portugal Supreme Court made it crystal clear that the McCanns have NEVER been cleared.  Nobody has evidence to overturn anything in an unsolved case!

"And let not be said, too, that the appellants were cleared by the order of filing the criminal proceedings."

A denial included in answer to Isobel Duarte's claim that they were cleared by the order of filing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 25, 2020, 06:18:42 AM
So you think that she did know before the interview but gave the parents a thoroughly hard time because.... ?

Further if she knew that Amaral was lying to her about the forensics ie the cellular matter taken from the apartment...why ask about the dog’s alerts ?

She publically stated her views just after the "dogs" interview and a decade before Netflix, so I don't see how Netflix could have "hastened her road to Damascus moment".
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg610801#msg610801

I've no idea why she was still "combative" towards the parents over the dogs. Something to do with asking "pertinent" questions, apparently, according to the screen-grab summary.

If she was trying to - perhaps playfully - goad Gerry into saying something "juicy", I find "ask the dogs, Sandra" to have put a stop to it.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 25, 2020, 07:16:31 AM
The BBC panorama documentary "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by BBC Panorama."  So the link to his actual words is no longer available via the link I used.

"His name was "Do Carmo"  -  there are several references on the forum to what he said previously http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9555.msg462965#msg462965
What he actually said iirc is “The McCanns are not suspects.  Period”.  As you can’t be arsed to provide a proper cite for your claim I shan’t be bothered to do likewise.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 25, 2020, 07:18:34 AM
"“There are no new elements at the moment that would allow for the reopening of the inquiry,” Pedro do Carmo, the deputy head of the criminal police department, told AFP.
https://nationalpost.com/news/portuguese-police-say-new-british-evidence-not-enough-to-reopen-madeleine-mccann-case

It looks like the documentary is still available here https://youtu.be/wIR-Ku890ss  - No just the first 2 minutes of it.
That is not what you claimed De Camo said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 08:33:46 AM
That is not what you claimed De Camo said.
What he said is on the BBC documentary.  Look at that.  In this other quote he also used the words "at the moment" and that was the point I was trying to make with Davel

"No evidence against the McCanns"  compared to "No evidence against the McCanns at the moment"
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 25, 2020, 08:43:06 AM
"“There are no new elements at the moment that would allow for the reopening of the inquiry,” Pedro do Carmo, the deputy head of the criminal police department, told AFP.
https://nationalpost.com/news/portuguese-police-say-new-british-evidence-not-enough-to-reopen-madeleine-mccann-case

It looks like the documentary is still available here https://youtu.be/wIR-Ku890ss  - No just the first 2 minutes of it.

Rob, that article is dated April 26, 2012, i.e. before PT reopened their investigation in October 2013: when "Portugal's attorney general said "new elements of evidence" justified the "continuation of the investigation", which was shelved by police in 2008.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24655826

Coincidentally or not, that was the same month Aktenzeichen-XY (German "Crimewatch) first presented the case and got a tip off.

Maddie's disappearance was one of the cases being presented in Wednesday's edition of German TV show "Aktenzeichen XY" that regularly asks the general public for help in unsolved crimes. The McCanns had first appeared on the ZDF program in 2013, when a tip-off led police to look into this suspect. Lead investigator Christian Hoppe said that there was not enough information then for an arrest or an investigation. More solid information on the suspect apparently emerged in 2017.


A first reference to the man was received in 2013
According to Hoppe, there was already an Aktenzeichen-XY in October 2013- broadcast [that led to?] a first clue to the man.
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/maddie-mccann-ermittlungen-1.4926556

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 25, 2020, 08:44:50 AM
What he said is on the BBC documentary.  Look at that.  In this other quote he also used the words "at the moment" and that was the point I was trying to make with Davel

"No evidence against the McCanns"  compared to "No evidence against the McCanns at the moment"

Where did you get "against the McCanns" from?

"“There are no new elements at the moment that would allow for the reopening of the inquiry,” Pedro do Carmo (2012)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 25, 2020, 09:10:14 AM
Rob, that article is dated April 26, 2012, i.e. before PT reopened their investigation in October 2013: when "Portugal's attorney general said "new elements of evidence" justified the "continuation of the investigation", which was shelved by police in 2008.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24655826

Coincidentally or not, that was the same month Aktenzeichen-XY (German "Crimewatch) first presented the case and got a tip off.

Maddie's disappearance was one of the cases being presented in Wednesday's edition of German TV show "Aktenzeichen XY" that regularly asks the general public for help in unsolved crimes. The McCanns had first appeared on the ZDF program in 2013, when a tip-off led police to look into this suspect. Lead investigator Christian Hoppe said that there was not enough information then for an arrest or an investigation. More solid information on the suspect apparently emerged in 2017.


A first reference to the man was received in 2013
According to Hoppe, there was already an Aktenzeichen-XY in October 2013- broadcast [that led to?] a first clue to the man.
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/maddie-mccann-ermittlungen-1.4926556
I think it has taken a long time to build a case against Brueckner and it seems that if he was known about in 2007 quite a bit of information just wasn't acted on at the time and wasn't shared at a later date.
For example ... from where did Goncalo Amaral retrieve the photographs alleged to be of the van Brueckner was driving in 2007
Gonçalo Amaral devastates German investigation and reveals new photos of Brueckner's van
Per ZAP -22 June, 2020

“It doesn't matter who the pedophile is.
In recent years a suspect, a pedophile, a figure that fits the profile has appeared. He's an almost perfect suspect , ”said Gonçalo Amaral, in an interview in Jornal das 8, on TVI . “You only need one thing to be perfect, which is to be dead.”

The former inspector stressed that in order to consider the German citizen as guilty, it is necessary to “prove first that there has been kidnapping”.
Asked if he had any knowledge of the suspect's involvement in this case, he replied that,

"at the time, it was only known that this man was a pedophile."
He stressed, however, that in 2007 he was identified.

In the same interview, Gonçalo Amaral took the opportunity to reveal new photographs in which the Volkswagen caravan van, which Brueckner used to live and move in 2007, has a personalized painting and drawings , being different from the images released by the German authorities, where it appears white and yellow.

“Would that vehicle go unnoticed in Praia da Luz or elsewhere? Certainly not, ”he said, before immediately questioning the reasons why he says they had altered“ the images of the motorhome ”, which was taken to Germany to be examined.

“The question remains: is it possible that the German authorities concluded that at the time of 2007 the vehicle was not like this, but was still painted white? Who told you that? Could it be that the authorities - or the English that I do not know who did this, as it certainly was not in Portugal - that disclosed this are trying to check information? To receive a phone saying 'oh, did I see the car on the site?' Forget it, nobody saw anything because the car was different , ”he reiterated.

Regarding the photographs he revealed during the interview, the former PJ, who led the initial investigations into Maddie's disappearance, said only that “they were taken in the Algarve”.https://zap.aeiou.pt/amaral-arrasa-investigacao-alema-331219

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 09:39:39 AM
Where did you get "against the McCanns" from?

"“There are no new elements at the moment that would allow for the reopening of the inquiry,” Pedro do Carmo (2012)
Here is the video of Pedro do Carmo explaining his view, in his own words.  My recollection was nearly right, but so that there is no dispute here is Pedro do Carmo: https://youtu.be/8wOKQTsrpd4?t=45

Anything that was said then was "at this point" in time and things could change in the future, so he doesn't rule them out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 09:51:10 AM
Here is the video of Pedro do Carmo explaining his view, in his own words.  My recollection was nearly right, but so that there is no dispute here is Pedro do Carmo: https://youtu.be/8wOKQTsrpd4?t=45

Anything that was said then was "at this point" in time and things could change in the future, so he doesn't rule them out.
That was an exerpt from "Panorama Madeleine McCann-10 Years On BBC Documentary-2017"

From the notes "Despite numerous claims to the contrary,  Gerry and McCann are NOT SUSPECTS  in the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine McCann"  but they weren't ruled out by Pedro do Carmo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 10:00:31 AM
That was an exerpt from "Panorama Madeleine McCann-10 Years On BBC Documentary-2017"

From the notes "Despite numerous claims to the contrary,  Gerry and McCann are NOT SUSPECTS  in the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine McCann"  but they weren't ruled out by Pedro do Carmo.

I would say he did rule them out. Obviously if new evidence came to light things could chsnge.

What you are saying is no one who is found not guilty in court has been ruled out because new evidence could come to light and there are exceptions to double jeapordy...its a silly argument.

 

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 10:07:23 AM
I would say he did rule them out. Obviously if new evidence came to light things could chsnge.

What you are saying is no one who is found not guilty in court has been ruled out because new evidence could come to light and there are exceptions to double jeapordy...its a silly argument.
Bilton asks do Carmo several times "do you rule them out"  I never hear him say "Yes, they are ruled out". 

You are putting words in my mouth.  "What you are saying is no one who is found not guilty in court has been ruled out because new evidence could come to light and there are exceptions to double jeapordy...its a silly argument."
I haven't said anything about that at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 10:12:09 AM
Bilton asks do Carmo several times "do you rule them out"  I never hear him say "Yes, they are ruled out". 

You are putting words in my mouth.  "What you are saying is no one who is found not guilty in court has been ruled out because new evidence could come to light and there are exceptions to double jeapordy...its a silly argument."
I haven't said anything about that at all.

he said theres no evidence...not suspects...that rules them out..of course new evidence could arise in the future.
That means in that sense no one can be ruled out...so its  a pointless statement.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 10:15:57 AM
he said theres no evidence...not suspects...that rules them out..of course new evidence could arise in the future.
That means in that sense no one can be ruled out...so its  a pointless statement.
He certainly seems reluctant to take a stand and say outright, that they are cleared.  Was that political pressure?  I tend to think so, but that would just be my opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 10:17:59 AM
He certainly seems reluctant to take a stand and say outright, that they are cleared.  Was that political pressure?  I tend to think so, but that would just be my opinion.

I'm sure the pressure  is it makes the initial investigation look stupid
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 10:22:18 AM
I'm sure the pressure  is it makes the initial investigation look stupid
We just don't know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 25, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
I'm sure the pressure  is it makes the initial investigation look stupid

Is this the same one Rowley gave a ringing endorsement to when saying,Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the
original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was
all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of
investigation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 10:30:51 AM
Is this the same one Rowley gave a ringing endorsement to when saying,Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the
original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was
all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of
investigation

I think that was different documentary at about the same time (the 10 year anniversary).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 25, 2020, 10:33:21 AM
I think that was different documentary at about the same time (the 10 year anniversary).

Question ans answer session,but the gist of it is the same.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 25, 2020, 10:36:27 AM
There have been so many documentaries over the years, each pushing their own agenda and disinformation  that it's unwise to believe anything said on them -IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 10:38:14 AM
Question ans answer session,but the gist of it is the same.
I took it differently, in that I thought the UK police know more than the PJ.   So as far as the UK cops are concerned the McCanns are cleared. and it was an abduction.

The PJ are still trying to work out how MM got out of the apartment (so they wanted a reconstruction).
But the UK take the view "however Madeleine got out of the apartment, she was abducted".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 25, 2020, 10:39:13 AM
He certainly seems reluctant to take a stand and say outright, that they are cleared.  Was that political pressure?  I tend to think so, but that would just be my opinion.

I don't think so.  I tend to go with the flow of the evidence which justified reopening Madeleine's case showing up the extent of the incompetence of the Amaral investigation ... and there is no way he was going to open himself to that one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 25, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
I'm sure the pressure  is it makes the initial investigation look stupid

The pressure is, imo, that whatever is said is blown out of all proportion by the media. In fact no-one needs to speak; some people believe that the Portuguese were well-diving looking for Madeleine McCann's body, but they never said that afaik.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 10:51:32 AM
I don't think so.  I tend to go with the flow of the evidence which justified reopening Madeleine's case showing up the extent of the incompetence of the Amaral investigation ... and there is no way he was going to open himself to that one.
I've never seen a Portuguese person agree to "the incompetence of the Amaral investigation".   They might have agreed to reopen the case, but at that time (2017) the case had not advanced beyond what Amaral had brought out.

Maybe a bit different now with CB in the frame, but even that might end up inconclusive.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 25, 2020, 10:53:25 AM
Portugal Supreme Court made it crystal clear that the McCanns have NEVER been cleared.  Nobody has evidence to overturn anything in an unsolved case!

"And let not be said, too, that the appellants were cleared by the order of filing the criminal proceedings."

Never cleared of what?   They weren't charged with anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 25, 2020, 10:56:41 AM
I took it differently, in that I thought the UK police know more than the PJ.   So as far as the UK cops are concerned the McCanns are cleared. and it was an abduction.

Judging by the UK police's knowledge of the layout of PdL I would say they know less than the PJ. Rowley made no claim to know more than the PJ either; according to him they 'dealt with' the possibility of parental involvement. According to the archive reports they didn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 11:00:58 AM
Judging by the UK police's knowledge of the layout of PdL I would say they know less than the PJ. Rowley made no claim to know more than the PJ either; according to him they 'dealt with' the possibility of parental involvement. According to the archive reports they didn't.
The PJ are still trying to work out how MM got out of the apartment (so they wanted a reconstruction).
But the UK take the view "however Madeleine got out of the apartment, she was abducted".

I can only think the UK police discovered something via Crimestoppers with confidentiality being a requirement. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 25, 2020, 11:08:36 AM
I've never seen a Portuguese person agree to "the incompetence of the Amaral investigation".   They might have agreed to reopen the case, but at that time (2017) the case had not advanced beyond what Amaral had brought out.

Maybe a bit different now with CB in the frame, but even that might end up inconclusive.

There have been one or two critics who we have never heard of because the advocates of freedom of speech who post translations on the internet post only what suits ... and among them criticism of Goncalo Amaral doesn't come into the equation thus critics are silenced just by being ignored.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 25, 2020, 11:12:33 AM
There have been one or two critics who we have never heard of because the advocates of freedom of speech who post translations on the internet post only what suits ... and among them criticism of Goncalo Amaral doesn't come into the equation thus critics are silenced just by being ignored.

A bit like here then, where only those supportive of the McCanns get heard?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 25, 2020, 11:12:42 AM
Judging by the UK police's knowledge of the layout of PdL I would say they know less than the PJ. Rowley made no claim to know more than the PJ either; according to him they 'dealt with' the possibility of parental involvement. According to the archive reports they didn't.

Where is the "archive report" detailing Dr Totman's interviews with the police.  I have seen the result but I have never seen the 'archive report' leading up to the release of that information.
Have you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 25, 2020, 11:19:29 AM
The PJ are still trying to work out how MM got out of the apartment (so they wanted a reconstruction).
But the UK take the view "however Madeleine got out of the apartment, she was abducted".

I can only think the UK police discovered something via Crimestoppers with confidentiality being a requirement.

The obvious time to carry out a reconstruction was right at the beginning ... Amaral vetoed that ... we have seen Rebelo checking out the apartment when he took over the case and we have seen photographs of them checking out the very question you raise.
In my opinion it is one of two choices.  The door or the window ... I know what I think is the most logical if the assailant was working on his or her own.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 25, 2020, 11:42:09 AM
I've never seen a Portuguese person agree to "the incompetence of the Amaral investigation".   They might have agreed to reopen the case, but at that time (2017) the case had not advanced beyond what Amaral had brought out.

Maybe a bit different now with CB in the frame, but even that might end up inconclusive.

You should have read some of the Comments under the Portuguese Media articles.

And I believe there are a couple of videos mocking Amaral and The Investigation.  I have seen these and they are really funny.  But I wouldn't know where to find them now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 11:52:09 AM
Judging by the UK police's knowledge of the layout of PdL I would say they know less than the PJ. Rowley made no claim to know more than the PJ either; according to him they 'dealt with' the possibility of parental involvement. According to the archive reports they didn't.

Can you show where in the archive report it says the UK police didn't deal with parental involvement.
Da Carmo said no evidence against the parents...not suspects remember
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 25, 2020, 12:00:10 PM
The PJ are still trying to work out how MM got out of the apartment (so they wanted a reconstruction).
But the UK take the view "however Madeleine got out of the apartment, she was abducted".

I can only think the UK police discovered something via Crimestoppers with confidentiality being a requirement.

Well they neve shared with Do Carmo,he answered when asked do you accept the girl was abducted,"we don't know what happened and have to be prepared for different scenario's.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 12:18:17 PM
Well they neve shared with Do Carmo,he answered when asked do you accept the girl was abducted,"we don't know what happened and have to be prepared for different scenario's.
Were you able to review the full documentary?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 25, 2020, 12:31:16 PM
Were you able to review the full documentary?

Yes this was a sky one.

Its on utube.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 25, 2020, 12:42:59 PM
She publically stated her views just after the "dogs" interview and a decade before Netflix, so I don't see how Netflix could have "hastened her road to Damascus moment".
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg610801#msg610801

I've no idea why she was still "combative" towards the parents over the dogs. Something to do with asking "pertinent" questions, apparently, according to the screen-grab summary.

If she was trying to - perhaps playfully - goad Gerry into saying something "juicy", I find "ask the dogs, Sandra" to have put a stop to it.

As I’ve said unless or until we have a transcript of her interview on Portuguese TV all we have is a few comments on a blog...hardly compelling evidence of her stance before Netflix.

And as I’ve also said before if SF knew she had been lied to over the forensics, as she must have at the time of the interview if her claim is true,  then why ask about the dogs when she knew their alerts had to be corroborated by the forensics she had discovered proved nothing ?

For me her behaviour can be summed up in two, cynical opportunism. I’d guess she no more supports the parents now than she ever did...it’s just it’s not acceptable to say that now...or perhaps the threat of libel may have done the trick.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 25, 2020, 03:34:47 PM
Where is the "archive report" detailing Dr Totman's interviews with the police.  I have seen the result but I have never seen the 'archive report' leading up to the release of that information.
Have you?

That's because he didn't make a statement to the PJ, despite being in PdL until 12th May 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 25, 2020, 03:47:43 PM
That's because he didn't make a statement to the PJ, despite being in PdL until 12th May 2007.

You misunderstand what I have posted.

My reference is to the sceptic denial that the McCanns were not interviewed by Scotland Yard,

I have pointed out that going on that logic ... neither was Dr Totman.

In my opinion it is patently obvious that Dr Totman was interviewed.  It is patently obvious that he was despite there being no record of that in the public domain.

Neither is there a record of Kate and Gerry McCann being interested not as suspects but as witnesses just as Dr Totman so obviously was.

In my opinion it is naive to assume they were not ... but that is because I don't believe in any of the 'theories' expounded by Amaral of which can be said you pays your money and you takes your choice.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 25, 2020, 04:47:50 PM
You misunderstand what I have posted.

My reference is to the sceptic denial that the McCanns were not interviewed by Scotland Yard,

I have pointed out that going on that logic ... neither was Dr Totman.

In my opinion it is patently obvious that Dr Totman was interviewed.  It is patently obvious that he was despite there being no record of that in the public domain.

Neither is there a record of Kate and Gerry McCann being interested not as suspects but as witnesses just as Dr Totman so obviously was.

In my opinion it is naive to assume they were not ... but that is because I don't believe in any of the 'theories' expounded by Amaral of which can be said you pays your money and you takes your choice.
That's a lot of words for a simple moonwalk.
You didn't know, get over it, we will. In time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 25, 2020, 04:58:00 PM
Here is the video of Pedro do Carmo explaining his view, in his own words.  My recollection was nearly right, but so that there is no dispute here is Pedro do Carmo: https://youtu.be/8wOKQTsrpd4?t=45

Anything that was said then was "at this point" in time and things could change in the future, so he doesn't rule them out.
Nearly right is not good enough.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 07:37:01 PM
Nearly right is not good enough.
Is that the standard you set for yourself too?  I'm a bit more forgiving in that respect.  Nearly right is good enough.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 07:51:34 PM
There is no fact...at this point...or evidence...That they were involved in Madeleine McCanns disappearnce...

thats pretty clear
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 07:54:34 PM
There is no fact...at this point...or evidence...That they were involved in Madeleine McCanns disappearnce...

thats pretty clear
Exactly, at that point in time.  Has anything changed since then?  Could it change in the future?  So the PJ won't budge.

At that point in time, was May 2017 and we are now July 2020.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 07:59:19 PM
At that point in time.  Has anything changed since then?  Could it change in the future?  So the PJ won't budge.
He can only answer for the present moment he was asked the question. This is post the archiving report when the SC changed  from no evidence to insufficient evidence. do carmo made it clear it was no evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 08:08:15 PM
He can only answer for the present moment he was asked the question. This is post the archiving report when the SC changed  from no evidence to insufficient evidence. do carmo made it clear it was no evidence
There was two different benchmarks - evidence needed to convict and evidence needed to clear a suspect.

I'll show you using your words "This is post the archiving report when the SC changed  from no evidence to [convict] to insufficient evidence [to clear their name].  Pedro do carmo made it clear it was no evidence [to convict].   I agree with you on that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 25, 2020, 08:29:09 PM
A bit like here then, where only those supportive of the McCanns get heard?

You feel the sceptics are not allowed a voice ... that is news to me ... do you mean they are expected not to libel here?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 08:33:21 PM
There was two different benchmarks - evidence needed to convict and evidence needed to clear a suspect.

I'll show you using your words "This is post the archiving report when the SC changed  from no evidence to [convict] to insufficient evidence [to clear their name].  Pedro do carmo made it clear it was no evidence [to convict].   I agree with you on that.

you are wrong again. neither the SC nor Do Carmo can predict what evidence is needed to convict...thats up to the judges/jury. sorry to be harsh but you seem to be making things up again

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 08:35:52 PM
you are wrong again. neither the SC nor Do Carmo can predict what evidence is needed to convict...thats up to the judges/jury. sorry to be harsh but you seem to be making things up again
The police have a fair idea about "what evidence is needed to convict".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 08:38:00 PM
The police have a fair idea about "what evidence is needed to convict".

Do carmo said no evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 08:41:09 PM
Do carmo said no evidence
Under your rules is he allowed to say that?  Your rules: "neither the SC nor Do Carmo can predict what evidence is needed to convict...thats up to the judges/jury."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 25, 2020, 08:41:42 PM
You feel the sceptics are not allowed a voice ... that is news to me ... do you mean they are expected not to libel here?

By 'here' I was referring to the UK, where the media show no interest in alternatives to the abduction story.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 08:43:22 PM
Under your rules is he allowed to say that?  Your rules: "neither the SC nor Do Carmo can predict what evidence is needed to convict...thats up to the judges/jury."

do Carmo said no evidence...he didnt mention convict....he just said...NO evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 08:46:05 PM
do Carmo said no evidence...he didnt mention convict....he just said...NO evidence
Implying evidence to convict.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 08:48:36 PM
Implying evidence to convict.

in your opinion....I dont see it that way at all
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 08:50:54 PM
in your opinion....I dont see it that way at all
Surely that was obvious.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2020, 08:54:15 PM
Surely that was obvious.

thats your opinion too...does that mean I never have to type imo again...thanks
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 25, 2020, 08:56:10 PM
thats your opinion too...does that mean I never have to type imo again...thanks
"Surely that was obvious" is a request for you to confirm it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 25, 2020, 09:06:57 PM
By 'here' I was referring to the UK, where the media show no interest in alternatives to the abduction story.

OK ... but neither here on the forum nor in the UK is libel tolerated and as far as I know all possibilities for Madeleine's disappearance have been gone over with a fine tooth comb and professionals have come to the conclusion that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger.

The issues which do not bear scrutiny are Amaral's madcap ideas the latest being his "scapegoat = Brueckner" episode which has resonated amongst his following to some extent.
Who knows, perhaps Brueckner's legal team might adopt it since it derives from such an ~ ahemm ~ respected and influential source.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 25, 2020, 11:02:47 PM
OK ... but neither here on the forum nor in the UK is libel tolerated and as far as I know all possibilities for Madeleine's disappearance have been gone over with a fine tooth comb and professionals have come to the conclusion that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger.

The issues which do not bear scrutiny are Amaral's madcap ideas the latest being his "scapegoat = Brueckner" episode which has resonated amongst his following to some extent.
Who knows, perhaps Brueckner's legal team might adopt it since it derives from such an ~ ahemm ~ respected and influential source.

'Professionals' make mistakes just like anyone else, so it's not an accolade and doesn't add value to a statement in my opinion. The truth is that the Metropolitan Police decided an abduction took place, but no-one knows how or why they reached that conclusion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 25, 2020, 11:44:13 PM
'Professionals' make mistakes just like anyone else, so it's not an accolade and doesn't add value to a statement in my opinion. The truth is that the Metropolitan Police decided an abduction took place, but no-one knows how or why they reached that conclusion.
Because it’s the only plausible, logical explanation that fits the known facts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2020, 12:41:52 AM
'Professionals' make mistakes just like anyone else, so it's not an accolade and doesn't add value to a statement in my opinion. The truth is that the Metropolitan Police decided an abduction took place, but no-one knows how or why they reached that conclusion.

They are trained investigators ... don't you think they might have employed their experience and their skills when reviewing the available evidence on Madeleine's disappearance.

It could have gone one of two ways back in 2010. 
Their investigative scoping exercise might have resulted in there being insufficient evidence to merit opening an investigation into Madeleine's disappearance or, it might have revealed there was sufficient evidence to merit an investigation.

The outcome was the latter.

It was not a 'given' that Madeleine's case would be reopened ... there had to be justification and as we have seen it was there in spades.

I find the school of thought perpetuating the myth that the Met neglected to perform all the obvious and probably standard procedures when embarking on the preliminaries of looking at Madeleine's cold case, so naive as to be risible.

The scoping exercise resulted in discovering not a few procedures slipping through the net and being overlooked by the original investigation but hundreds of them.

Not the least of which is the present day unashamed revelation from Amaral when "Asked if he had any knowledge of the suspect's involvement in this case, he replied that, "at the time, it was only known that this man was a pedophile". However, he stressed that in 2007 he was identified." https://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artigos/goncalo-amaral-sobre-caso-madeleine-mccann-pouco-importa-quem-e-o-pedofilo-era-preciso-um-para-levar-com-as-culpas
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 26, 2020, 12:44:08 AM
They are trained investigators ... don't you think they might have employed their experience and their skills when reviewing the available evidence on Madeleine's disappearance.

It could have gone one of two ways back in 2010. 
Their investigative scoping exercise might have resulted in there being insufficient evidence to merit opening an investigation into Madeleine's disappearance or, it might have revealed there was sufficient evidence to merit an investigation.

The outcome was the latter.

It was not a 'given' that Madeleine's case would be reopened ... there had to be justification and as we have seen it was there in spades.

I find the school of thought perpetuating the myth that the Met neglected to perform all the obvious and probably standard procedures when embarking on the preliminaries of looking at Madeleine's cold case, so naive as to be risible.

The scoping exercise resulted in discovering not a few procedures slipping through the net and being overlooked by the original investigation but hundreds of them.

Not the least of which is the present day unashamed revelation from Amaral when "Asked if he had any knowledge of the suspect's involvement in this case, he replied that, "at the time, it was only known that this man was a pedophile". However, he stressed that in 2007 he was identified." https://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artigos/goncalo-amaral-sobre-caso-madeleine-mccann-pouco-importa-quem-e-o-pedofilo-era-preciso-um-para-levar-com-as-culpas

I take it Rebelo knew this information too. What did he do to investigate him ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2020, 12:48:05 AM
Because it’s the only plausible, logical explanation that fits the known facts.

There's only one verifiable fact imo; that Madeline McCann disappeared on 3rd May 2007.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2020, 01:01:47 AM
They are trained investigators ... don't you think they might have employed their experience and their skills when reviewing the available evidence on Madeleine's disappearance.

It could have gone one of two ways back in 2010. 
Their investigative scoping exercise might have resulted in there being insufficient evidence to merit opening an investigation into Madeleine's disappearance or, it might have revealed there was sufficient evidence to merit an investigation.

The outcome was the latter.

It was not a 'given' that Madeleine's case would be reopened ... there had to be justification and as we have seen it was there in spades.

I find the school of thought perpetuating the myth that the Met neglected to perform all the obvious and probably standard procedures when embarking on the preliminaries of looking at Madeleine's cold case, so naive as to be risible.

The scoping exercise resulted in discovering not a few procedures slipping through the net and being overlooked by the original investigation but hundreds of them.

Not the least of which is the present day unashamed revelation from Amaral when "Asked if he had any knowledge of the suspect's involvement in this case, he replied that, "at the time, it was only known that this man was a pedophile". However, he stressed that in 2007 he was identified." https://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artigos/goncalo-amaral-sobre-caso-madeleine-mccann-pouco-importa-quem-e-o-pedofilo-era-preciso-um-para-levar-com-as-culpas

I know that it was decided which crime had been committed long before all the evidence had been examined.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2020, 01:32:55 AM
There's only one verifiable fact imo; that Madeline McCann disappeared on 3rd May 2007.

There is another verifiable fact and that is that although retaining for the moment the hard core of his support still bemoaning the damage to tourism ( never mind the damage to tourists) and the other sceptic mantras some people ... although outnumbered, appear to be seeing Amaral in a new light.

Comment from two months ago ...

_______________________________________________________________

I also went to the thesis that it was the parents who negligently killed and hid Maddie.
But now it seems to me that it will not be so.
The German fits like a glove in crime !!!!
This German who confessed on a night of glasses that he knew everything about Maddie.
It is very likely that this was the perpetrator of the crime. Because when I was telling this on a hot glass night, it was to impress the fellow who was with him to appear in the eyes of this one who was the greatest.
He even showed the video violating the 72-year-old American on her cell phone. It was therefore the vapors of alcohol that betrayed him !!! Maybe he did the crime and the police are clueless and find out nothing in these 13 years !!!! And when he was watching on TV, Maddie's disappearance on her 10th birthday, deep down she laughs and even boasts !!

If that is true, Gonçalo Amaral could burn the damn book he made of "The truth of the lie"
At the end of his career at PJ he does this great job !!!
_______________________________________________________________

Gonçalo Amaral's incompetence, in this case and in the case of Joana.
There are still idiots who still believe in this idiot.
_______________________________________________________________

So after all the blood in the apartment and the smell of a corpse detected in the family car was all an invention.

As well as the possession of the keys of the church of light to be authorized by the parents as the crematorium of a coffin in Ferreira do Alentejo.

Gonçalo Amaral is crazy, he makes things up. https://sol.sapo.pt/artigo/699191/caso-maddie-policia-brit-nica-recebe-cerca-de-400-informacoes-apos-revelar-suspeito
_______________________________________________________________

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2020, 01:33:52 AM
I know that it was decided which crime had been committed long before all the evidence had been examined.

How do you know that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 26, 2020, 02:09:28 AM
There is another verifiable fact and that is that although retaining for the moment the hard core of his support still bemoaning the damage to tourism ( never mind the damage to tourists) and the other sceptic mantras some people ... although outnumbered, appear to be seeing Amaral in a new light.

Comment from two months ago ...

_______________________________________________________________

I also went to the thesis that it was the parents who negligently killed and hid Maddie.
But now it seems to me that it will not be so.
The German fits like a glove in crime !!!!
This German who confessed on a night of glasses that he knew everything about Maddie.
It is very likely that this was the perpetrator of the crime. Because when I was telling this on a hot glass night, it was to impress the fellow who was with him to appear in the eyes of this one who was the greatest.
He even showed the video violating the 72-year-old American on her cell phone. It was therefore the vapors of alcohol that betrayed him !!! Maybe he did the crime and the police are clueless and find out nothing in these 13 years !!!! And when he was watching on TV, Maddie's disappearance on her 10th birthday, deep down she laughs and even boasts !!

If that is true, Gonçalo Amaral could burn the damn book he made of "The truth of the lie"
At the end of his career at PJ he does this great job !!!
_______________________________________________________________

Gonçalo Amaral's incompetence, in this case and in the case of Joana.
There are still idiots who still believe in this idiot.
_______________________________________________________________

So after all the blood in the apartment and the smell of a corpse detected in the family car was all an invention.

As well as the possession of the keys of the church of light to be authorized by the parents as the crematorium of a coffin in Ferreira do Alentejo.

Gonçalo Amaral is crazy, he makes things up. https://sol.sapo.pt/artigo/699191/caso-maddie-policia-brit-nica-recebe-cerca-de-400-informacoes-apos-revelar-suspeito
_______________________________________________________________

Not sure what you are trying to prove....that a few people don’t support Amaral....well hold the front page.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2020, 08:07:00 AM
How do you know that?

12th May 2011 remit released, which refers to "the abduction".

April 2012; Police announced they were quarter way through reviewing 40,000 pieces of evidence.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-aged-nine-yard-detectives-believe-she-could-still-be-alive-7678249.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 26, 2020, 08:24:15 AM
12th May 2011 remit released, which refers to "the abduction".

April 2012; Police announced they were quarter way through reviewing 40,000 pieces of evidence.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-aged-nine-yard-detectives-believe-she-could-still-be-alive-7678249.html

"195 investigative opportunities"  Such high hopes back in 2012
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2020, 08:47:48 AM
There's only one verifiable fact imo; that Madeline McCann disappeared on 3rd May 2007.
Absolute rubbish imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 26, 2020, 08:57:58 AM
Absolute rubbish imo.

You think even that's in doubt ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2020, 09:11:43 AM
You think even that's in doubt ?
What is absolute rubbish is that there is only one verifiable fact, but you raise a good point.  Some sceptics would argue that even that fact was not verifiable.  I guess it depends quite where on the [ censored word ] scale you sit, how many verifiable facts there are.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2020, 09:26:44 AM
What is absolute rubbish is that there is only one verifiable fact, but you raise a good point.  Some sceptics would argue that even that fact was not verifiable.  I guess it depends quite where on the [ censored word ] scale you sit, how many verifiable facts there are.

Don't be shy, which facts have I ignored?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2020, 09:47:33 AM
Don't be shy, which facts have I ignored?
There are thousands of verifiable facts in the files, or do you dispute every single one of them.  Let’s start with the basics.  Kate and Gerry McCann are the missing child’s parents.  Has this been verified or not?

PS your post is clearly GOADING.  Give yourself a warning.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2020, 10:16:04 AM
There are thousands of verifiable facts in the files, or do you dispute every single one of them.  Let’s start with the basics.  Kate and Gerry McCann are the misssing child’s parents.  Has this been verified or not?

PS your post is clearly GOADING.  Give yourself a warning.

That fact has no bearing on whether Madeleine was abducted.

No goading was intended, but we do have very different posting styles. If I disagree with a post I tend to reply with facts rather than opinions. I may think the post is rubbish, but saying so doesn't achieve anything. A fact which disproves it is more useful imo. In this case in your shoes I would have replied with the verifiable facts which I believed confirm abduction.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2020, 10:16:30 AM
12th May 2011 remit released, which refers to "the abduction".

April 2012; Police announced they were quarter way through reviewing 40,000 pieces of evidence.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-aged-nine-yard-detectives-believe-she-could-still-be-alive-7678249.html

Why are there always chosen cut off points and starting points condoning the sceptic mantra while totally ignoring the facts of everything else.

Do you really believe that someone woke up on the 12 May 2011 with the spiffing idea that Madeleine had been abducted.

I find it grossly insulting that you choose to ignore the work that went into Madeleine's case which justified the conclusion and therefore the remit arrived at that Madeleine had been abducted and neither her parents nor their friends were persons of interest in that abduction.

Unlike Amaral the Met officers did not have the luxury of deciding the outcome prior to knowing what the evidence was ... they spent over a year which you know absolutely nothing about studying what the evidence actually was to justify a review and even at that it took until the end of 2013 before her case was officially opened.

During that period numerous interviews took place ... not one of which you know anything about ... so to think the Met officers didn't have a firm grasp of who would and should be interviewed is in my opinion to be living in cloud cuckoo land while displaying total ignorance of police procedures which usually start at the very beginning and in this case a year before you think it did.


Home Office launches secret review into Madeleine McCann's disappearance
The Home Office has secretly begun a review that could lead to a fresh police inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Home Office launches secret review into Madeleine McCann's disappearance

Robert MendickBy Robert Mendick 9:00PM GMT 06 Mar 2010

The move follows the release of 2,000 pages of evidence last week which Portuguese detectives are accused of having failed to fully investigate.

According to sources close to the McCanns, Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, has ordered officials to examine the 'feasibility' of British or Portuguese detectives looking afresh at all the evidence.

Kate and Gerry McCann met with Mr Johnson last year to plead for help in their search for Madeleine, who vanished without trace in May 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal.

The couple have also met with John Yates, the Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner, who has headed up a number of high profile inquiries in recent years.

He is said to be "sympathetic" and to have made "general offers of assistance".

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McCanns criticise police for failing to follow leads 19 Feb 2010
Portuguese detective loses bid to overturn Madeleine McCann gagging order 19 Feb 2010
McCanns win bid to gag Portuguese detective 18 Feb 2010
The source said: "The latest we have heard from the Home Office is officials are undertaking a 'scoping exercise' to look into the possibility of a review of the case.

"They are looking at all the options. It is basically a feasibility study.

"Kate and Gerry met with Alan Johnson to request a review is done. Hopefully any political intervention can unlock obstructions that might be in the way."

Pressure is now being put on Portuguese authorities to agree in the first instance to a three-day review of the case that could be held at Interpol's headquarters in Lyon in France.

The McCanns will hope the Home Office can persuade their Portuguese counterparts to co-operate in a case review.

The review – were it to go ahead – would involve British police working with Portuguese counterparts as well as experts in child abduction across other European forces.

The Portuguese police have been heavily criticised for their handling of the case which led to detectives naming the McCanns, both doctors from Leicestershire, as arguidos – or suspects – in the case and accusing them of involvement in her disappearance.

Their arguido status was subsequently lifted and the police investigation shelved.

But with the senior officer in charge Goncalo Amaral now widely discredited and facing financial ruin after being sued for libel by the McCanns over a book he wrote, it may become harder for the Portuguese to refuse the request for a thorough review.

The revelation that possible leads – many passed to Portuguese police by the McCanns' own private detectives – had apparently been ignored will add to the clamour.

Last week, details emerged of a series of possible sightings of Madeleine, who was just three when she vanished.

Guilhermino Encarnacao, who was in charge of the Policia Judiciaria in the Algarve, died two weeks ago from stomach cancer.

Mr Encarnacao was convinced Madeleine had died in her parents' apartment and was a major source of a series of off the record briefings to journalists against the McCanns.

A Home Office spokesman said: "We can confirm that the Home Secretary had a private meeting with Kate and Gerry McCann.

"Leicestershire Police stand ready to co-ordinate and complete enquiries if further information comes to light in the UK; or if requested to do so by the Portuguese authorities, who continue to lead on the overall investigation."

The spokesman refused to discuss what talks took place at the meeting or whether there was the chance of a review of the evidence at Interpol.

The spokesman added: "We are not going to comment on the outcome of any private meeting with the McCanns."

Mr Yates was unavailable for comment.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7384911/Home-Office-launches-secret-review-into-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 26, 2020, 10:17:40 AM
There's only one verifiable fact imo; that Madeline McCann disappeared on 3rd May 2007.

You are obsessed with facts. there are others who would dispute your statement so is it a fact...can it b eproven 100% ...probably no. So in that case there would be no verifiable facts.

What you fail to realise is that the jutice system is driven by opinion...not facts. If it relied totally  on facts there would be very few convictions

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2020, 10:22:47 AM
There are thousands of verifiable facts in the files, or do you dispute every single one of them.  Let’s start with the basics.  Kate and Gerry McCann are the misssing child’s parents.  Has this been verified or not?

PS your post is clearly GOADING.  Give yourself a warning.

Even that fact was subject to dispute.  You simply could not make it up ~ the calumnies emanating from the rumour mill are mind boggling.  Each and every one of which if not started by Amaral usually met with his endorsement.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2020, 10:51:04 AM
That fact has no bearing on whether Madeleine was abducted.

No goading was intended, but we do have very different posting styles. If I disagree with a post I tend to reply with facts rather than opinions. I may think the post is rubbish, but saying so doesn't achieve anything. A fact which disproves it is more useful imo. In this case in your shoes I would have replied with the verifiable facts which I believed confirm abduction.
Your post claimed there was only one verifiable fact to counter my opinion that abduction was the only plausible and logical theory that fit all the known facts.  There are thousands of known facts and my opinion still stands. 

Oh, and "don't be shy..." is goading.  If it's not, I will make sure to use it in more posts addressed to you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 26, 2020, 11:23:18 AM
That fact has no bearing on whether Madeleine was abducted.

No goading was intended, but we do have very different posting styles. If I disagree with a post I tend to reply with facts rather than opinions. I may think the post is rubbish, but saying so doesn't achieve anything. A fact which disproves it is more useful imo. In this case in your shoes I would have replied with the verifiable facts which I believed confirm abduction.

I think you over estimate the value and style of your posts. Detectives investigating a case have to decide who they beleive and combine this with other evidence /facts to reach conclusions.....thats exactly how a trial works. you seem to think tat conclusions can only be raeched based on things taht can be proven to be a 100% factual. that is not how things work. you need to understand and accept reality.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2020, 11:48:48 AM
Why are there always chosen cut off points and starting points condoning the sceptic mantra while totally ignoring the facts of everything else.

Do you really believe that someone woke up on the 12 May 2011 with the spiffing idea that Madeleine had been abducted.

I find it grossly insulting that you choose to ignore the work that went into Madeleine's case which justified the conclusion and therefore the remit arrived at that Madeleine had been abducted and neither her parents nor their friends were persons of interest in that abduction.

Unlike Amaral the Met officers did not have the luxury of deciding the outcome prior to knowing what the evidence was ... they spent over a year which you know absolutely nothing about studying what the evidence actually was to justify a review and even at that it took until the end of 2013 before her case was officially opened.

During that period numerous interviews took place ... not one of which you know anything about ... so to think the Met officers didn't have a firm grasp of who would and should be interviewed is in my opinion to be living in cloud cuckoo land while displaying total ignorance of police procedures which usually start at the very beginning and in this case a year before you think it did.


Home Office launches secret review into Madeleine McCann's disappearance
The Home Office has secretly begun a review that could lead to a fresh police inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Home Office launches secret review into Madeleine McCann's disappearance

Robert MendickBy Robert Mendick 9:00PM GMT 06 Mar 2010

The move follows the release of 2,000 pages of evidence last week which Portuguese detectives are accused of having failed to fully investigate.

According to sources close to the McCanns, Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, has ordered officials to examine the 'feasibility' of British or Portuguese detectives looking afresh at all the evidence.

Kate and Gerry McCann met with Mr Johnson last year to plead for help in their search for Madeleine, who vanished without trace in May 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal.

The couple have also met with John Yates, the Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner, who has headed up a number of high profile inquiries in recent years.

He is said to be "sympathetic" and to have made "general offers of assistance".

Related Articles
Retired lawyer faces jail for 'harassing' Kate and Gerry McCann 29 Jan 2012
McCanns' detective searching for girl in a wig seen with two 'gipsies' 04 Mar 2010
More than 50 new leads in Madeleine case 03 Mar 2010
McCanns criticise police for failing to follow leads 19 Feb 2010
Portuguese detective loses bid to overturn Madeleine McCann gagging order 19 Feb 2010
McCanns win bid to gag Portuguese detective 18 Feb 2010
The source said: "The latest we have heard from the Home Office is officials are undertaking a 'scoping exercise' to look into the possibility of a review of the case.

"They are looking at all the options. It is basically a feasibility study.

"Kate and Gerry met with Alan Johnson to request a review is done. Hopefully any political intervention can unlock obstructions that might be in the way."

Pressure is now being put on Portuguese authorities to agree in the first instance to a three-day review of the case that could be held at Interpol's headquarters in Lyon in France.

The McCanns will hope the Home Office can persuade their Portuguese counterparts to co-operate in a case review.

The review – were it to go ahead – would involve British police working with Portuguese counterparts as well as experts in child abduction across other European forces.

The Portuguese police have been heavily criticised for their handling of the case which led to detectives naming the McCanns, both doctors from Leicestershire, as arguidos – or suspects – in the case and accusing them of involvement in her disappearance.

Their arguido status was subsequently lifted and the police investigation shelved.

But with the senior officer in charge Goncalo Amaral now widely discredited and facing financial ruin after being sued for libel by the McCanns over a book he wrote, it may become harder for the Portuguese to refuse the request for a thorough review.

The revelation that possible leads – many passed to Portuguese police by the McCanns' own private detectives – had apparently been ignored will add to the clamour.

Last week, details emerged of a series of possible sightings of Madeleine, who was just three when she vanished.

Guilhermino Encarnacao, who was in charge of the Policia Judiciaria in the Algarve, died two weeks ago from stomach cancer.

Mr Encarnacao was convinced Madeleine had died in her parents' apartment and was a major source of a series of off the record briefings to journalists against the McCanns.

A Home Office spokesman said: "We can confirm that the Home Secretary had a private meeting with Kate and Gerry McCann.

"Leicestershire Police stand ready to co-ordinate and complete enquiries if further information comes to light in the UK; or if requested to do so by the Portuguese authorities, who continue to lead on the overall investigation."

The spokesman refused to discuss what talks took place at the meeting or whether there was the chance of a review of the evidence at Interpol.

The spokesman added: "We are not going to comment on the outcome of any private meeting with the McCanns."

Mr Yates was unavailable for comment.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7384911/Home-Office-launches-secret-review-into-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance.html

Journalistic speculations are not to be relied on. There is no evidence that members of the Metropolitan Police were doing any work at all on the case. Their involvement began in May 2011.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22918857

Kate McCann was unaware of anything at all being done prior to that except Gamble's 'scoping' exercise.

We are still pressing the British and Portuguese
governments to do more, or at least something. A
year after our request for a review of Madeleine’s
case, Alan Johnson, the second home secretary we
had met, commissioned CEOP to undertake a
‘scoping’ exercise – basically to establish whether
they felt a review may be of benefit. Their report has been with the Home Office since March 2010. Although we have not seen it, it has been widely
reported that it highlights some deficiencies in the
investigation and hence areas that merit further
attention. We have since met the current home secretary, Theresa May, and written to her several times. Currently we do not know whether we are any further
forward, or whether the British government has even
raised the suggestion of a review with the Portuguese authorities.
In November 2010 we
started a petition to lobby the two governments to
conduct an independent review. We are at a loss to
understand why such a commonly used procedure
isn’t an obvious option and why our request for such
a review has gone unanswered.
[madeleine]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2020, 11:56:28 AM
Journalistic speculations are not to be relied on. There is no evidence that members of the Metropolitan Police were doing any work at all on the case. Their involvement began in May 2011.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22918857

Kate McCann was unaware of anything at all being done prior to that except Gamble's 'scoping' exercise.

We are still pressing the British and Portuguese
governments to do more, or at least something. A
year after our request for a review of Madeleine’s
case, Alan Johnson, the second home secretary we
had met, commissioned CEOP to undertake a
‘scoping’ exercise – basically to establish whether
they felt a review may be of benefit. Their report has been with the Home Office since March 2010. Although we have not seen it, it has been widely
reported that it highlights some deficiencies in the
investigation and hence areas that merit further
attention. We have since met the current home secretary, Theresa May, and written to her several times. Currently we do not know whether we are any further
forward, or whether the British government has even
raised the suggestion of a review with the Portuguese authorities.
In November 2010 we
started a petition to lobby the two governments to
conduct an independent review. We are at a loss to
understand why such a commonly used procedure
isn’t an obvious option and why our request for such
a review has gone unanswered.
[madeleine]
Which part of the article do you consider "speculation"?  Your bolded section does not suggest that a review had not been carried out by that point, only that the McCanns did not know what the upshot was and that as far as they knew a review in conjunction with the PT authorities had not been conducted. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 26, 2020, 12:02:34 PM
Journalistic speculations are not to be relied on. There is no evidence that members of the Metropolitan Police were doing any work at all on the case. Their involvement began in May 2011.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22918857

Kate McCann was unaware of anything at all being done prior to that except Gamble's 'scoping' exercise.

We are still pressing the British and Portuguese
governments to do more, or at least something. A
year after our request for a review of Madeleine’s
case, Alan Johnson, the second home secretary we
had met, commissioned CEOP to undertake a
‘scoping’ exercise – basically to establish whether
they felt a review may be of benefit. Their report has been with the Home Office since March 2010. Although we have not seen it, it has been widely
reported that it highlights some deficiencies in the
investigation and hence areas that merit further
attention. We have since met the current home secretary, Theresa May, and written to her several times. Currently we do not know whether we are any further
forward, or whether the British government has even
raised the suggestion of a review with the Portuguese authorities.
In November 2010 we
started a petition to lobby the two governments to
conduct an independent review. We are at a loss to
understand why such a commonly used procedure
isn’t an obvious option and why our request for such
a review has gone unanswered.
[madeleine]


‘ Journalistic speculations are not to be relied on.’

Indeed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2020, 12:17:00 PM
So MSM news reportage is all speculation as far as the sceptics are concerned.  In which case they should put their money where their mouths are and never again use one as a cite for anything at all. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 26, 2020, 12:24:58 PM
Media reporting is mainly what we have to go on, so is acceptable as a cite as the report itself is a fact.
The content should never be taken as gospel - IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2020, 12:26:58 PM
Media reporting is mainly what we have to go on, so is acceptable as a cite as the report itself is a fact.
The content should never be taken as gospel - IMO

So not Cites then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 26, 2020, 12:29:36 PM
What matters isn't what some armchair detectives here regard as facts but what the investigators believe to be true.
They clearly see an abduction as being possible
They clearly don't see the parents as suspects
They clearly see CB as a suspect and have evidence to support that suspicion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 26, 2020, 12:30:01 PM
So not Cites then.

Read again. Cites demonstrate that the poster hasn't just made something up, even if the media content is suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2020, 12:33:44 PM
Read again. Cites demonstrate that the poster hasn't just made something up, even if the media content is suspect.

So, it's fine if The Media made it up.  This means that Poster can cite it as Fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 26, 2020, 12:39:24 PM
So, it's fine if The Media made it up.  This means that Poster can cite it as Fact.

Yes and no.

The citer can't claim contents as fact but can demonstrate the source
 If readers can see what has been written then they can make their own evaluation as to whether or not the information is valid.


We have posters who scoff at certain sites as sources, but at least one can see what has been claimed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2020, 12:43:38 PM
Yes and no.

The citer can't claim contents as fact but can demonstrate the source
 If readers can see what has been written then they can make their own evaluation as to whether or not the information is valid.


We have posters who scoff at certain sites as sources, but at least one can see what has been claimed.

Just keep on adding the In My Opinion.  Or you could say, I agree with this Opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 26, 2020, 12:46:27 PM
Just keep on adding the In My Opinion.  Or you could say, I agree with this Opinion.

I usually do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2020, 12:47:10 PM
What matters isn't what some armchair detectives here regard as facts but what the investigators believe to be true.
They clearly see an abduction as being possible
They clearly don't see the parents as suspects
They clearly see CB as a suspect and have evidence to support that suspicion
Ah, but that's what the MSM is feeding you, you see!  It's all speculation, unverifiable, nothing is true unless G-Unit has ratified it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Yes and no.

The citer can't claim contents as fact but can demonstrate the source
 If readers can see what has been written then they can make their own evaluation as to whether or not the information is valid.


We have posters who scoff at certain sites as sources, but at least one can see what has been claimed.
Scoffing at news reports from reputable news agencies just because they don't say what you want them to say is extremely childish IMO. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 26, 2020, 01:07:29 PM
Scoffing at news reports from reputable news agencies just because they don't say what you want them to say is extremely childish IMO.

Of course it is , though sometimes they are not reputable news agencies.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
Of course it is , though sometimes they are not reputable news agencies.
Earlier G-Unit proffered a cite from the Standard.  Brietta responded with a cite from the Telegraph.  G-Unit then claimed that the article Brietta cited was nothing more than "press speculation".   Who gets to decide which news source is reputable and which is not?  I guess the answer is G-Unit!

ETA: Comically, she then relies on a cite from a book by a woman she suspects of not telling the truth about anything much at all!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 26, 2020, 01:26:50 PM
Earlier G-Unit proffered a cite from the Standard.  Brietta responded with a cite from the Telegraph.  G-Unit then claimed that the article Brietta cited was nothing more than "press speculation".   Who gets to decide which news source is reputable and which is not?  I guess the answer is G-Unit!

ETA: Comically, she then relies on a cite from a book by a woman she suspects of not telling the truth about anything much at all!

Why do these posters..like gunit...bother to read newspapers when they supposedly don't believe a word in them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
Why do these posters..like gunit...bother to read newspapers when they supposedly don't believe a word in them
God knows.  Obviously there are far more reliable news sources, like Shining In Luz, or twitter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2020, 02:17:37 PM
Journalistic speculations are not to be relied on. There is no evidence that members of the Metropolitan Police were doing any work at all on the case. Their involvement began in May 2011.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22918857

Kate McCann was unaware of anything at all being done prior to that except Gamble's 'scoping' exercise.

We are still pressing the British and Portuguese
governments to do more, or at least something. A
year after our request for a review of Madeleine’s
case, Alan Johnson, the second home secretary we
had met, commissioned CEOP to undertake a
‘scoping’ exercise – basically to establish whether
they felt a review may be of benefit. Their report has been with the Home Office since March 2010. Although we have not seen it, it has been widely
reported that it highlights some deficiencies in the
investigation and hence areas that merit further
attention. We have since met the current home secretary, Theresa May, and written to her several times. Currently we do not know whether we are any further
forward, or whether the British government has even
raised the suggestion of a review with the Portuguese authorities.
In November 2010 we
started a petition to lobby the two governments to
conduct an independent review. We are at a loss to
understand why such a commonly used procedure
isn’t an obvious option and why our request for such
a review has gone unanswered.
[madeleine]

Among the issues highlighted in the scoping exercise ... which did in fact lead to a review of Madeleine's case due to the persistence of her parents ... was the fact that the original investigation led by Amaral was monumentally inept and there was " ... a basic failure to collate information and join up links that should have been made.
Telephone records were not properly analysed, missing early opportunities for leads.

And Kate and Gerry McCann were named as Arguidos, or formal suspects, by Portuguese police - something that the review says would not have happened if the probe had been carried out in the UK.

Mr Gamble found no evidence sufficient to make them suspects. His findings have now been formally submitted to the Home Office with recommendations to re-investigate".
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/brits-launch-maddie-probe-news-of-the-world-10-04--t7721.html


Didn't miss much in his scoping exercise didn't Jim Gamble.

Amaral knew that Brueckner was a paedophile with a connection to Luz.   
But did he know about phone calls made from Brueckner's cell phone on the night Madeleine vanished ... or was he far too tied into tracing the calls received and sent by Madeleine's parents and friends to be bothered with what a known paedophile might have been doing in Luz using the solid evidence provided by the British instigated initiative of the cell phone dump?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2020, 09:03:09 PM
Allegations have been made that are not supported by evidence;

"Met officers...spent over a year...studying what the evidence actually was to justify a review...During that period numerous interviews took place"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg611693#msg611693

Officially the review was announced and began in May 2011;

The UK review into Madeleine's case began in May 2011, after Prime Minister David Cameron responded to a plea from her parents.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22918857

I cannot find any evidence that any Met officers were involved in anything for over a year before the review began.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 26, 2020, 09:12:24 PM
Allegations have been made that are not supported by evidence;

"Met officers...spent over a year...studying what the evidence actually was to justify a review...During that period numerous interviews took place"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg611693#msg611693

Officially the review was announced and began in May 2011;

The UK review into Madeleine's case began in May 2011, after Prime Minister David Cameron responded to a plea from her parents.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22918857

I cannot find any evidence that any Met officers were involved in anything for over a year before the review began.
So what...does that prove anything...no it doesnt. I'm sure the McCanns were interviewed by SY as witnesses...the fact I cant prove it doesnt mean  it didnt happen
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2020, 09:16:34 PM
So what...does that prove anything...no it doesnt. I'm sure the McCanns were interviewed by SY as witnesses...the fact I cant prove it doesnt mean  it didnt happen

That's not the point. The point is when the Met became involved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2020, 09:24:14 PM
So what...does that prove anything...no it doesnt. I'm sure the McCanns were interviewed by SY as witnesses...the fact I cant prove it doesnt mean  it didnt happen

I'm sure the ****** dunnit, the fact I can't prove it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 26, 2020, 09:34:26 PM
I'm sure the ****** dunnit, the fact I can't prove it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

In an investigation it's what you can prove that's important..the fact that you are sure of something you have no proof for proves your logic is faulty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 26, 2020, 10:01:43 PM
In an investigation it's what you can prove that's important..the fact that you are sure of something you have no proof for proves your logic is faulty

Didn’t you just say ‘ I'm sure the McCanns were interviewed by SY as witnesses...the fact I cant prove it doesnt mean  it didnt happen’

Surely that’s faulty logic ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 26, 2020, 10:04:48 PM
Didn’t you just say ‘ I'm sure the McCanns were interviewed by SY as witnesses...the fact I cant prove it doesnt mean  it didnt happen’

Surely that’s faulty logic ?

Look at the context
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 26, 2020, 10:07:59 PM
Look at the context

Nope that doesn’t work.

Hoisted by your own petard.

Comedy gold.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 27, 2020, 12:24:24 AM
Nope that doesn’t work.

Hoisted by your own petard.

Comedy gold.
"Hoist with his own petard" is a phrase from a speech in William Shakespeare's play Hamlet that has become proverbial. The phrase's meaning is literally that a bomb-maker is blown up ("hoist" off the ground) by his own bomb (a "petard" is a small explosive device), and indicates an ironic reversal, or poetic justice.[1]"

I was thinking a petard was a rope of some sort.

A petard is a small bomb used for blowing up gates and walls when breaching fortifications. It is of French origin and dates back to the 16th century. A typical petard was a conical or rectangular metal device containing 2–3 kg of gunpowder, with a slow match for a fuse. Wikipedia
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2020, 01:03:19 AM
"Hoist with his own petard" is a phrase from a speech in William Shakespeare's play Hamlet that has become proverbial. The phrase's meaning is literally that a bomb-maker is blown up ("hoist" off the ground) by his own bomb (a "petard" is a small explosive device), and indicates an ironic reversal, or poetic justice.[1]"

I was thinking a petard was a rope of some sort.

A petard is a small bomb used for blowing up gates and walls when breaching fortifications. It is of French origin and dates back to the 16th century. A typical petard was a conical or rectangular metal device containing 2–3 kg of gunpowder, with a slow match for a fuse. Wikipedia

Interesting.  I didn't know that.  I thought a Petard was a rope.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2020, 09:18:11 AM
That's not the point. The point is when the Met became involved.

That may be an important point as far as you are concerned but the genesis of the present investigation was in 2010 when the Home Secretary ordered a scoping exercise on Madeleine's case ... the result of which was the review which in turn resulted in Madeleine's case being reopened.

Part of the justification used initially by Madeleine's parents to get that far was the revelation at Amaral's libel trial by Ricardo Paiva that information continued to be sent to the Judicial Police and the (in)action taken by him was to file it as 'not relevant'.
The judge ordered the information to be passed to the McCann legal team and from thereon in it is history.

But from the archiving of Madeleine's case in 2008 until Amaral's libel trial in 2010 ... nothing was done in the case of a missing child  by the agency in charge of her case despite information still coming in, including from the detectives hired by her parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 27, 2020, 09:36:37 AM
That may be an important point as far as you are concerned but the genesis of the present investigation was in 2010 when the Home Secretary ordered a scoping exercise on Madeleine's case ... the result of which was the review which in turn resulted in Madeleine's case being reopened.

Part of the justification used initially by Madeleine's parents to get that far was the revelation at Amaral's libel trial by Ricardo Paiva that information continued to be sent to the Judicial Police and the (in)action taken by him was to file it as 'not relevant'.
The judge ordered the information to be passed to the McCann legal team and from thereon in it is history.

But from the archiving of Madeleine's case in 2008 until Amaral's libel trial in 2010 ... nothing was done in the case of a missing child  by the agency in charge of her case despite information still coming in, including from the detectives hired by her parents.

This is simply not true and I’m not quite sure why you are still claiming this.

There is  no evidence that the file passed to the parents legal team had anything to do with the decision to open the review into the case by the Met.

I believe the scoping exercise was undertaken by Alan Johnson the then Home Secretary but he did nothing with the recommendations and, according to the parents in an interview with Channel 4, neither did Theresa May, in fact they said that she had not even read the report. It was only in 2011, after a campaign by the Sun, and alleged threats that Theresa May would be put on the front pages of the newspaper for a week, that the government eventually relented and ordered the review.....a thoroughly nasty business that raised questions at Leveson.

There is no evidence that the, mostly, sightings, were not followed up by the PJ as they came in and discounted. The only information we have is the the file was marked ‘not relevant to the case’.

I have no idea why you continue to distort the truth in this way.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2020, 10:29:41 AM
Met Police 'bring expertise' to Madeleine McCann search
13 May 2011
The Metropolitan Police are to "bring their expertise" to the search for Madeleine McCann, the Home Office says.

Madeleine went missing aged three on holiday in Portugal in May 2007, and David Cameron has agreed to ask for a review of the case.

Met Police Authority member Lord Harris said Mr Cameron's intervention damaged the independence of the police.

But Downing Street and Scotland Yard have both denied the government ordered the force to investigate.

Scotland Yard said Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson had "received a request, which he considered, and took the decision that on balance it was the right thing to do".

A Downing Street spokesman said Mr Cameron and Home Secretary Theresa May asked the Met to review the evidence after a new plea by parents Kate and Gerry McCann from Leicestershire.

He said the case was "exceptional" and that the prime minister "has been clear that he wants to do everything he can to support the family".

'New perspective'
The McCanns said in a statement: "The expertise of the Metropolitan Police is renowned and we are reassured by our government's commitment to the search for Madeleine."

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell added: "This is exactly what Kate and Gerry have been asking for. They wanted an independent force to examine everything, basically."

The official Portuguese inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance ended in July 2008 although private detectives hired by the McCanns have continued the search.

Home Secretary Theresa May, whose department will pay for the review, said it was hoped the Met "can bring a new perspective to the case".

A Home Office spokesman said: "Law enforcement agencies here [in the UK] have continued to follow up leads and pass information to the Portuguese authorities as appropriate."

But Lord Harris, a Labour peer who is a member of the Metropolitan Police Authority, said decisions about operational matters should be made only by senior officers.

'Worst nightmare'
He said David Cameron's intervention "drives a coach and horses through the draft protocol issued by the Home Office designed to preserve the operational independence of the police."

Writing on his blog, he said that while it was desirable to find out what had happened to Madeleine McCann, he did not think senior leadership at the Met would be happy.

"It again embroils their officers in a high-profile investigation, where the chances of success are unclear, and which will divert limited investigative resources away from other matters."

In an open letter in the Sun on Thursday, Madeleine's parents had asked Mr Cameron to launch an "independent, transparent and comprehensive" review of all information relating to the disappearance of their daughter.

In his reply, published by the same newspaper on Friday, Mr Cameron said their ordeal was "every parent's worst nightmare".

He wrote: "I simply cannot imagine the pain you must have experienced over these four agonising years, and the strength and determination you have shown throughout is remarkable.

"I have asked the home secretary to look into what more the government could do to help find Madeleine.

"She will be writing to you today, setting out new action involving the Metropolitan Police Service which we hope will help boost efforts in the search for Madeleine."

Former Home Secretary Alan Johnson commissioned a scoping exercise by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (Ceop) centre to look at the feasibility of carrying out a review of the case.

This was completed in March 2010, but Mr McCann said current Home Secretary Theresa May refused to let him and his wife see it because it was "sensitive".

British police were involved in the Portuguese investigation from the early days.

That involvement included the Forensic Science Service carrying out testing on samples sent to their laboratories in Birmingham; and various British police forces, co-ordinated by Leicestershire police, providing translators, family liaison officers, child abduction experts and specialist sniffer dogs. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13378289


Former Home Secretary Alan Johnson commissioned a scoping exercise by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (Ceop) centre to look at the feasibility of carrying out a review of the case.

This was completed in March 2010, but Mr McCann said current Home Secretary Theresa May refused to let him and his wife see it because it was "sensitive".

The 2010 United Kingdom general election was held on Thursday, 6 May 2010 resulting in a change of Government and a change of Home Secretary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 10:55:30 AM
That may be an important point as far as you are concerned but the genesis of the present investigation was in 2010 when the Home Secretary ordered a scoping exercise on Madeleine's case ... the result of which was the review which in turn resulted in Madeleine's case being reopened.

Part of the justification used initially by Madeleine's parents to get that far was the revelation at Amaral's libel trial by Ricardo Paiva that information continued to be sent to the Judicial Police and the (in)action taken by him was to file it as 'not relevant'.
The judge ordered the information to be passed to the McCann legal team and from thereon in it is history.

But from the archiving of Madeleine's case in 2008 until Amaral's libel trial in 2010 ... nothing was done in the case of a missing child  by the agency in charge of her case despite information still coming in, including from the detectives hired by her parents.

No, I want to know why you think the Met were secretly investigating, including interviewing people, for over a year before their involvement was announced.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2020, 10:59:56 AM
No, I want to know why you think the Met were secretly investigating, including interviewing people, for over a year before their involvement was announced.

I want you to show me exactly where I said that.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 27, 2020, 11:12:48 AM
Met Police 'bring expertise' to Madeleine McCann search
13 May 2011
The Metropolitan Police are to "bring their expertise" to the search for Madeleine McCann, the Home Office says.

Madeleine went missing aged three on holiday in Portugal in May 2007, and David Cameron has agreed to ask for a review of the case.

Met Police Authority member Lord Harris said Mr Cameron's intervention damaged the independence of the police.

But Downing Street and Scotland Yard have both denied the government ordered the force to investigate.

Scotland Yard said Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson had "received a request, which he considered, and took the decision that on balance it was the right thing to do".

A Downing Street spokesman said Mr Cameron and Home Secretary Theresa May asked the Met to review the evidence after a new plea by parents Kate and Gerry McCann from Leicestershire.

He said the case was "exceptional" and that the prime minister "has been clear that he wants to do everything he can to support the family".

'New perspective'
The McCanns said in a statement: "The expertise of the Metropolitan Police is renowned and we are reassured by our government's commitment to the search for Madeleine."

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell added: "This is exactly what Kate and Gerry have been asking for. They wanted an independent force to examine everything, basically."

The official Portuguese inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance ended in July 2008 although private detectives hired by the McCanns have continued the search.

Home Secretary Theresa May, whose department will pay for the review, said it was hoped the Met "can bring a new perspective to the case".

A Home Office spokesman said: "Law enforcement agencies here [in the UK] have continued to follow up leads and pass information to the Portuguese authorities as appropriate."

But Lord Harris, a Labour peer who is a member of the Metropolitan Police Authority, said decisions about operational matters should be made only by senior officers.

'Worst nightmare'
He said David Cameron's intervention "drives a coach and horses through the draft protocol issued by the Home Office designed to preserve the operational independence of the police."

Writing on his blog, he said that while it was desirable to find out what had happened to Madeleine McCann, he did not think senior leadership at the Met would be happy.

"It again embroils their officers in a high-profile investigation, where the chances of success are unclear, and which will divert limited investigative resources away from other matters."

In an open letter in the Sun on Thursday, Madeleine's parents had asked Mr Cameron to launch an "independent, transparent and comprehensive" review of all information relating to the disappearance of their daughter.

In his reply, published by the same newspaper on Friday, Mr Cameron said their ordeal was "every parent's worst nightmare".

He wrote: "I simply cannot imagine the pain you must have experienced over these four agonising years, and the strength and determination you have shown throughout is remarkable.

"I have asked the home secretary to look into what more the government could do to help find Madeleine.

"She will be writing to you today, setting out new action involving the Metropolitan Police Service which we hope will help boost efforts in the search for Madeleine."

Former Home Secretary Alan Johnson commissioned a scoping exercise by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (Ceop) centre to look at the feasibility of carrying out a review of the case.

This was completed in March 2010, but Mr McCann said current Home Secretary Theresa May refused to let him and his wife see it because it was "sensitive".

British police were involved in the Portuguese investigation from the early days.

That involvement included the Forensic Science Service carrying out testing on samples sent to their laboratories in Birmingham; and various British police forces, co-ordinated by Leicestershire police, providing translators, family liaison officers, child abduction experts and specialist sniffer dogs. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13378289


Former Home Secretary Alan Johnson commissioned a scoping exercise by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (Ceop) centre to look at the feasibility of carrying out a review of the case.

This was completed in March 2010, but Mr McCann said current Home Secretary Theresa May refused to let him and his wife see it because it was "sensitive".

The 2010 United Kingdom general election was held on Thursday, 6 May 2010 resulting in a change of Government and a change of Home Secretary.

Which confirms exactly what I said.

Johnson commissioned a scoping exercise which Theresa May, the parents told us in a Channel 4 interview, hadn’t even read by the time she met them in late 2010. The Sun then ran a campaign, to coincide with the publication of Kate’s book, to have the case reopened.....accusations of blackmail towards Theresa May by Rebecca Brookes....and low and behold the PM commissions the review.

It was absolutely nothing to do with the file of the work which the parents had received during the libel trial and if you keep making that claim, and don’t want to appear a hypocrite, a cite will be needed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 11:24:42 AM
I want you to show me exactly where I said that.

With pleasure. You seem to think the Met were able to name the crime in their remit because they were working on the case before Operation Grange was requested, announced and funded. In my opinion that's not true.

Snip/

Why are there always chosen cut off points and starting points condoning the sceptic mantra while totally ignoring the facts of everything else.

Do you really believe that someone woke up on the 12 May 2011 with the spiffing idea that Madeleine had been abducted.

I find it grossly insulting that you choose to ignore the work that went into Madeleine's case which justified the conclusion and therefore the remit arrived at that Madeleine had been abducted and neither her parents nor their friends were persons of interest in that abduction.

Unlike Amaral the Met officers did not have the luxury of deciding the outcome prior to knowing what the evidence was ... they spent over a year which you know absolutely nothing about studying what the evidence actually was to justify a review and even at that it took until the end of 2013 before her case was officially opened.

During that period numerous interviews took place ... not one of which you know anything about ... so to think the Met officers didn't have a firm grasp of who would and should be interviewed is in my opinion to be living in cloud cuckoo land while displaying total ignorance of police procedures which usually start at the very beginning and in this case a year before you think it did.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg611693#msg611693

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2020, 12:07:25 PM
With pleasure. You seem to think the Met were able to name the crime in their remit because they were working on the case before Operation Grange was requested, announced and funded. In my opinion that's not true.

Snip/

Why are there always chosen cut off points and starting points condoning the sceptic mantra while totally ignoring the facts of everything else.

Do you really believe that someone woke up on the 12 May 2011 with the spiffing idea that Madeleine had been abducted.

I find it grossly insulting that you choose to ignore the work that went into Madeleine's case which justified the conclusion and therefore the remit arrived at that Madeleine had been abducted and neither her parents nor their friends were persons of interest in that abduction.

Unlike Amaral the Met officers did not have the luxury of deciding the outcome prior to knowing what the evidence was ... they spent over a year which you know absolutely nothing about studying what the evidence actually was to justify a review and even at that it took until the end of 2013 before her case was officially opened.

During that period numerous interviews took place ... not one of which you know anything about ... so to think the Met officers didn't have a firm grasp of who would and should be interviewed is in my opinion to be living in cloud cuckoo land while displaying total ignorance of police procedures which usually start at the very beginning and in this case a year before you think it did.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg611693#msg611693

You really do get caught up in the chicken or the egg scenarios with everything happening in isolation.  Just a bit like Amaral not being able to see the wood for the trees.

What on earth do you suppose the purpose of the scoping exercise carried out under the previous Home Secretary entailed? 

Do you really think the information contained in the scoping report which led to the official review of Madeleine's case was ignored and the review just sprouted wings of its own without referencing every page of it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 01:40:40 PM
You really do get caught up in the chicken or the egg scenarios with everything happening in isolation.  Just a bit like Amaral not being able to see the wood for the trees.

What on earth do you suppose the purpose of the scoping exercise carried out under the previous Home Secretary entailed? 

Do you really think the information contained in the scoping report which led to the official review of Madeleine's case was ignored and the review just sprouted wings of its own without referencing every page of it?

Things may well have happened behind the scenes but as no-one had access to the evidence gathered by the PJ, the PI's and, possibly, LP naming the crime when OG did was so premature imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2020, 02:49:01 PM
Things may well have happened behind the scenes but as no-one had access to the evidence gathered by the PJ, the PI's and, possibly, LP naming the crime when OG did was so premature imo.
What an extraordinary post.

Quite obviously things happened behind the scenes … that is how police investigations work ... they only publicise what they need to.

I don’t understand why you think no-one had access to evidence and went into this blind.

Do you think that because Leceistershire Police were not invited to join into either the Scoping exercise or the review leading on from it, would not be obliged to pass on any relevant information they may have had?

Do you think the McCanns did not hand over the evidence collected by their Private Investigators? they were after all desperate to have a case opened on Madeleine.

Do you think they didn’t bother to read the available PJ files in their entirety?

They may have read Cristovao's book or even Amaral's book for all you may know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 27, 2020, 05:16:16 PM
What an extraordinary post.

Quite obviously things happened behind the scenes … that is how police investigations work ... they only publicise what they need to.

I don’t understand why you think no-one had access to evidence and went into this blind.

Do you think that because Leceistershire Police were not invited to join into either the Scoping exercise or the review leading on from it, would not be obliged to pass on any relevant information they may have had?

Do you think the McCanns did not hand over the evidence collected by their Private Investigators? they were after all desperate to have a case opened on Madeleine.

Do you think they didn’t bother to read the available PJ files in their entirety?

They may have read Cristovao's book or even Amaral's book for all you may know.

They certainly didn’t hand over the report compiled by Henry Exton because, I believe, OG had to get special permission to obtain it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 05:42:15 PM
What an extraordinary post.

Quite obviously things happened behind the scenes … that is how police investigations work ... they only publicise what they need to.

I don’t understand why you think no-one had access to evidence and went into this blind.

Do you think that because Leceistershire Police were not invited to join into either the Scoping exercise or the review leading on from it, would not be obliged to pass on any relevant information they may have had?

Do you think the McCanns did not hand over the evidence collected by their Private Investigators? they were after all desperate to have a case opened on Madeleine.

Do you think they didn’t bother to read the available PJ files in their entirety?

They may have read Cristovao's book or even Amaral's book for all you may know.

I don't think any of that was examined until after the review was begun around 12 May 2011.

On 14 December 2011, it is revealed that Scotland Yard detectives had visited the Barcelona HQ of Metodo 3 - the detective agency employed by the McCanns in 2007 - the previous day. It is reported that they took away 30 boxes of documents compiled by the private detectives.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id391.htm

5th February 2012 The Express
A Yard spokesman declined to say who would be interviewed and when. “We are not going into that level of details,” he said. “We are not at the stage of speaking to individuals yet. We are laying the groundwork.”

As to the McCanns eagerness to hand evidence over, OG had a hiccup there when they approached Henri Exton asking for Oakley's report;

He claimed the legal threat had prevented him from handing over the report to Scotland Yard’s fresh investigation, until detectives had obtained written permission from the fund.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/78oct13/Times_27_10_2013.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2020, 06:39:05 PM
There is more than a whiff of groundhog day which has circulated around Madeleine's case for many years.  I don't think Madeleine's case is any more mysterious than any other stranger abduction.
It has only been made so by Amaral ... who has a vested interest in continuing the delusions he has promoted since day one.

Amaral continues the performance even in the full knowledge that the present German investigation which he criticises is based on information available to him in 2007 which he was obviously incapable of acting upon.

Snip
Importance of mobile phones and witnesses in the investigation
Regarding the case of mobile phones and associated mobile phone numbers during the investigation at the time of the disappearance, Gonçalo Amaral has doubts about the origin of, recently associated with the German suspect Christian Brueckner: "Is anyone sure that this Is that your phone number? ", he asked, stressing that" small details like this prove it ".

The former PJ believes that if the German police knew that the phone number belonged to Brueckner, "he didn't need to be looking."
https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/ate-agora-nada-foi-provado-goncalo-amaral-analisa-pistas-alemas-do-caso-maddie-veja-agora-na-cmtv?sid=952836
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 07:14:12 PM
There is more than a whiff of groundhog day which has circulated around Madeleine's case for many years.  I don't think Madeleine's case is any more mysterious than any other stranger abduction.
It has only been made so by Amaral ... who has a vested interest in continuing the delusions he has promoted since day one.

Amaral continues the performance even in the full knowledge that the present German investigation which he criticises is based on information available to him in 2007 which he was obviously incapable of acting upon.

Snip
Importance of mobile phones and witnesses in the investigation
Regarding the case of mobile phones and associated mobile phone numbers during the investigation at the time of the disappearance, Gonçalo Amaral has doubts about the origin of, recently associated with the German suspect Christian Brueckner: "Is anyone sure that this Is that your phone number? ", he asked, stressing that" small details like this prove it ".

The former PJ believes that if the German police knew that the phone number belonged to Brueckner, "he didn't need to be looking."
https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/ate-agora-nada-foi-provado-goncalo-amaral-analisa-pistas-alemas-do-caso-maddie-veja-agora-na-cmtv?sid=952836

Back on topic now, it seems, with no more attempts to explain how OG knew Madeleine had been abducted without access to the evidence gathered by the PJ. It certainly wasn't true that the PJ reached that conclusion before they archived the case.

It could be that the Germans appealed in order to find confirmation that it was indeed Brueckner's phone which was called on 3rd May 2007 in PdL. Otherwise they can't place him in the vicinity.

Amaral's team couldn't prove that the child died or that her parents were involved, but equally no other police force has proved that Madeleine was abducted or by whom.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2020, 07:25:07 PM
Back on topic now, it seems, with no more attempts to explain how OG knew Madeleine had been abducted without access to the evidence gathered by the PJ. It certainly wasn't true that the PJ reached that conclusion before they archived the case.

It could be that the Germans appealed in order to find confirmation that it was indeed Brueckner's phone which was called on 3rd May 2007 in PdL. Otherwise they can't place him in the vicinity.

Amaral's team couldn't prove that the child died or that her parents were involved, but equally no other police force has proved that Madeleine was abducted or by whom.
For such a fan of facts you must find Amaral’s book a real shocker.  Am I right?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 07:34:41 PM
For such a fan of facts you must find Amaral’s book a real shocker.  Am I right?

Why? His cite was the files documenting the investigation, which the courts confirmed;

  (Items 27 & 28) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts
       that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5931.0
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 27, 2020, 07:45:00 PM
Why? His cite was the files documenting the investigation, which the courts confirmed;

  (Items 27 & 28) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts
       that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5931.0

That really is a most ridiculous s ateement imo...by the court...."mostly facts". It doesnt matter if a document is mostly true and just alittle bit libellous. ...then its libellous. tony bennet was told as I recall that if just one sentence in his book was libellous then he would lose his case...that seems to be the proper interpretaion of the law.......we will see what the ECHR say
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 27, 2020, 07:46:21 PM
Things may well have happened behind the scenes but as no-one had access to the evidence gathered by the PJ, the PI's and, possibly, LP naming the crime when OG did was so premature imo.


I think that you reach that conclusion due to your misjudgement of the evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 27, 2020, 07:50:16 PM
I don't think any of that was examined until after the review was begun around 12 May 2011.

On 14 December 2011, it is revealed that Scotland Yard detectives had visited the Barcelona HQ of Metodo 3 - the detective agency employed by the McCanns in 2007 - the previous day. It is reported that they took away 30 boxes of documents compiled by the private detectives.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id391.htm

5th February 2012 The Express
A Yard spokesman declined to say who would be interviewed and when. “We are not going into that level of details,” he said. “We are not at the stage of speaking to individuals yet. We are laying the groundwork.”

As to the McCanns eagerness to hand evidence over, OG had a hiccup there when they approached Henri Exton asking for Oakley's report;

He claimed the legal threat had prevented him from handing over the report to Scotland Yard’s fresh investigation, until detectives had obtained written permission from the fund.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/78oct13/Times_27_10_2013.htm

All innuendo and the times settled. It would be quite normal to have  a confidentiality clause meaning Oakley would need permission to hand over the documents...nothing sinister in that. I find it very questionable to take anything from oakley at face value after the Halligan affair. You seem happy to acceot the press as 100% accurate here becaused its suits your argument.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 08:17:43 PM
That really is a most ridiculous s ateement imo...by the court...."mostly facts". It doesnt matter if a document is mostly true and just alittle bit libellous. ...then its libellous. tony bennet was told as I recall that if just one sentence in his book was libellous then he would lose his case...that seems to be the proper interpretaion of the law.......we will see what the ECHR say

I was asked about facts in Amaral's book and I responded. The accusation of libel was dismissed by the courts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 27, 2020, 08:21:15 PM
I was asked about facts in Amaral's book and I responded. The accusation of libel was dismissed by the courts.

Libel wasn't dismissed the court ruled amarals freedom of speech was more important
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2020, 08:30:30 PM
Why? His cite was the files documenting the investigation, which the courts confirmed;

  (Items 27 & 28) It is proved that the facts in the book and in the documentary, concerning the investigation, are mostly facts
       that took place in the investigation and are documented as such.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5931.0
So you’re satisfied with “mostly facts” are you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 08:57:14 PM
So you’re satisfied with “mostly facts” are you?

I think you're mixing me up with someone who cares what Amaral wrote in his book. My interest lies more in the reaction to it, to be honest. The McCanns really didn't like it, even though it was largely the true story of the first investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 27, 2020, 09:14:17 PM
I think you're mixing me up with someone who cares what Amaral wrote in his book. My interest lies more in the reaction to it, to be honest. The McCanns really didn't like it, even though it was largely the true story of the first investigation.

Would anyone like being accused as they were... the archiving report on the first investigation didn't match the book which was based on a poor understanding of the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2020, 10:04:39 PM
I think you're mixing me up with someone who cares what Amaral wrote in his book. My interest lies more in the reaction to it, to be honest. The McCanns really didn't like it, even though it was largely the true story of the first investigation.
But you care about facts and “the truth”, or you purport to, that’s why I asked.  “Largely true” though presenting unproven conclusions as facts and you’re not bothered, yet you do get extremely aereated on here if anyone writes something that doesn’t meet your stringent standards of fact and truth.  How very odd IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 11:02:32 PM
Would anyone like being accused as they were... the archiving report on the first investigation didn't match the book which was based on a poor understanding of the evidence

Anyone who thinks Amaral's book covered the archiving report has a poor understanding of the timescale. The book was published on 24th July 2008. The archiving report was written on 21st July 2008 and released to the public on 4th August. Obviously the book didn't address the archiving report; it ceased where Amaral's involvement in the investigation ceased.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 27, 2020, 11:07:56 PM
Anyone who thinks Amaral's book covered the archiving report has a poor understanding of the timescale. The book was published on 24th July 2008. The archiving report was written on 21st July 2008 and released to the public on 4th August. Obviously the book didn't address the archiving report; it ceased where Amaral's involvement in the investigation ceased.
His book didnt make that clear and didnt make it clear that at the time it was released the investigation had moved on....amaarl must have known this. His book was presented as the opinion of the investigation...it wasn't
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 11:08:49 PM
But you care about facts and “the truth”, or you purport to, that’s why I asked.  “Largely true” though presenting unproven conclusions as facts and you’re not bothered, yet you do get extremely aereated on here if anyone writes something that doesn’t meet your stringent standards of fact and truth.  How very odd IMO.

The book presented Amaral's hypothesis, but it was based on the facts of the investigation. The McCann's hypothesis was based on an open window which only they saw, and a conviction that their daughter wouldn't go out and close doors and gates after herself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2020, 11:10:49 PM
The book presented Amaral's hypothesis, but it was based on the facts of the investigation. The McCann's hypothesis was based on an open window which only they saw, and a conviction that their daughter wouldn't go out and close doors and gates after herself.
Your post is factually incorrect as they were not the only people who saw an open window.  You have deliberately chosen to ignore an independent statement that the window was open - pick and choose, pick and choose.  So much for being a stickler for thr truth!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 11:21:29 PM
His book didnt make that clear and didnt make it clear that at the time it was released the investigation had moved on....amaarl must have known this. His book was presented as the opinion of the investigation...it wasn't

The opinion of the investigation up to when he left it. The book ends with the conclusions reached after the McCann's interrogations, on 10th September 2007. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2020, 11:26:05 PM
Your post is factually incorrect as they were not the only people who saw an open window.  You have deliberately chosen to ignore an independent statement that the window was open - pick and choose, pick and choose.  So much for being a stickler for thr truth!

Whoops, yes. The McCanns and Amy Tierney claimed to have seen the open window, but those who entered 5A with the McCanns immediately after the alarm was raised didn't. Clever Amy....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 27, 2020, 11:28:46 PM
The opinion of the investigation up to when he left it. The book ends with the conclusions reached after the McCann's interrogations, on 10th September 2007.

It's a pointless discussion...and in the hands of the ECHR now. One point we do agree on is that it will be a disaster for both Amaral and Portugal if the ECHR find in the McCanns favour
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 27, 2020, 11:33:37 PM
Whoops, yes. The McCanns and Amy Tierney claimed to have seen the open window, but those who entered 5A with the McCanns immediately after the alarm was raised didn't. Clever Amy....

Unless Amy was with Kate when she went to do her check her statement has no value. Between the check and Amy entering 5a there was ample time to open a window.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 28, 2020, 12:04:00 AM
Unless Amy was with Kate when she went to do her check her statement has no value. Between the check and Amy entering 5a there was ample time to open a window.
Using that logic, it is never possible to confirm an open window as Kate did her check on her own. 
" Between the check and Amy entering 5a there was ample time to open a window."  becomes:
" Between the check and anyone entering 5a there was ample time to open a window."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 12:06:47 AM
Whoops, yes. The McCanns and Amy Tierney claimed to have seen the open window, but those who entered 5A with the McCanns immediately after the alarm was raised didn't. Clever Amy....
Observant Amy, she confirms that the McCanns were not lying and has herself no reason to lie.  Try not to forget this in future, it’s not the first time I’ve had to pull you up on it. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 28, 2020, 12:28:44 AM
Observant Amy, she confirms that the McCanns were not lying and has herself no reason to lie.  Try not to forget this in future, it’s not the first time I’ve had to pull you up on it. 

It will be interesting to hear Amy's account of an open window when Dianne Webster found Kate alone with the twins in the apartment not long after the alarm was raised and didn't see it open. Dianne said the shutter was down and not raised. You couldn't see the window from the outside if the shutter was down. Amy would have to be in the children's bedroom to see it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 28, 2020, 01:17:00 AM
It will be interesting to hear Amy's account of an open window when Dianne Webster found Kate alone with the twins in the apartment not long after the alarm was raised and didn't see it open. Dianne said the shutter was down and not raised. You couldn't see the window from the outside if the shutter was down. Amy would have to be in the children's bedroom to see it.
ORLY ?

Now I thought that both the shutter was raised and the window open when Kate found it.  Amy got there very quickly and saw the shutter and window open.     She obviously beat Dianne Webster who had been left at the dining table at the groups suggestion, cos by the time Dianne got there it had been closed.

After all your time researching the statements and thinking about it, do you honestly think that I, or any of us, believe that you hadn't already worked that out ?

Do you seriously claim that you hadn't worked that out yourself ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 07:13:45 AM
It will be interesting to hear Amy's account of an open window when Dianne Webster found Kate alone with the twins in the apartment not long after the alarm was raised and didn't see it open. Dianne said the shutter was down and not raised. You couldn't see the window from the outside if the shutter was down. Amy would have to be in the children's bedroom to see it.
So You have decided that on this occasion the member of the Tapas group got it right and the independent witness who had no reason to lie got it wrong.  That’s interesting!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 28, 2020, 08:01:02 AM
Using that logic, it is never possible to confirm an open window as Kate did her check on her own. 
" Between the check and Amy entering 5a there was ample time to open a window."  becomes:
" Between the check and anyone entering 5a there was ample time to open a window."

Exactly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 08:08:36 AM
As I’ve said unless or until we have a transcript of her interview on Portuguese TV all we have is a few comments on a blog...hardly compelling evidence of her stance before Netflix.

And as I’ve also said before if SF knew she had been lied to over the forensics, as she must have at the time of the interview if her claim is true,  then why ask about the dogs when she knew their alerts had to be corroborated by the forensics she had discovered proved nothing ?

For me her behaviour can be summed up in two, cynical opportunism. I’d guess she no more supports the parents now than she ever did...it’s just it’s not acceptable to say that now...or perhaps the threat of libel may have done the trick.
At the time of the ask the dogs interview Sandra did not know she had been lied to by Amaral. She thought it was too much of a coincidence to have something suspected to be blood and the dogs alerts in the same place
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 28, 2020, 08:21:18 AM
Unless Amy was with Kate when she went to do her check her statement has no value. Between the check and Amy entering 5a there was ample time to open a window.

Nobody saw any window open from the outside and we know Matt said he was there listening.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 08:22:31 AM
Nobody saw any window open from the outside and we know Matt said he was there listening.

The police obviously believe the McCanns...that's what matters...not a bunch of armchair detectives
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 08:38:16 AM
when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

So Amy saw a partially open window and a raised shutter but the McCanns female friend didn't. Clever Amy........
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 08:38:56 AM
If kate had opened the shutters from the outside she would have realised they were not security shutters and would not have claimed they hade been forced or broken. if she raised them after finding them raised in the first palce she would have thought if they were security shutters they ahd been forced and the mechanism broken...it fits perfectly
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 08:39:43 AM
when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

So Amy saw a partially open window and a raised shutter but the McCanns female friend didn't. Clever Amy........

The police obviously believe the McCanns...that's what matters...not a bunch of armchair detectives
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 09:21:10 AM
when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

So Amy saw a partially open window and a raised shutter but the McCanns female friend didn't. Clever Amy........
Did the "female friend" say the window was closed?  It's very interesting to me how you cite "no reason to lie" in the case of the chef at the Tapas reason to believe his statement that the alarm was raised around 9.20pm, nor do you make any sarky little comments about how clever he is or how his statement isn't backed up by members of the Tapas group... why is that exactly?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 09:29:35 AM
The police obviously believe the McCanns...that's what matters...not a bunch of armchair detectives

If you mean OG they probably didn't realise that Amy Tierney had to go from the night creche to 5A, by which time the shutter was closed, according to the McCanns. It was the first thing Gerry McCann did;

The deponent ran to the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.

----- Then he closed the external blinds
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

According to Fiona Payne she didn't go into 5A immediately, she spent ten minutes searching around the block. On her return she went into 5A, but Gerry left just before she did that, so it was just her and Kate then.

So how did Amy Tierney find both parents and a female friend in 5A before Gerry closed the shutters?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 09:30:24 AM
Did the "female friend" say the window was closed?  It's very interesting to me how you cite "no reason to lie" in the case of the chef at the Tapas reason to believe his statement that the alarm was raised around 9.20pm, nor do you make any sarky little comments about how clever he is or how his statement isn't backed up by members of the Tapas group... why is that exactly?
Sarky as in wry
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 09:35:48 AM
If you mean OG they probably didn't realise that Amy Tierney had to go from the night creche to 5A, by which time the shutter was closed, according to the McCanns. It was the first thing Gerry McCann did;

The deponent ran to the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.

----- Then he closed the external blinds
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

According to Fiona Payne she didn't go into 5A immediately, she spent ten minutes searching around the block. On her return she went into 5A, but Gerry left just before she did that, so it was just her and Kate then.

So how did Amy Tierney find both parents and a female friend in 5A before Gerry closed the shutters?

You use the word probably because you don't know. The fact is SY find the parents credible witnesses and obviously believe them to be innocent. All your little innuendo s are meaningless.
None of the statements can be relied upon to be accurate
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 09:37:54 AM
Some people are more interested in criticising other posters than explaining how seemingly impossible scenarios occurred. In my opinion that's because they can't explain.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 09:45:27 AM
Some people are more interested in criticising other posters than explaining how seemingly impossible scenarios occurred. In my opinion that's because they can't explain.

We can't explain precisely because we weren't there..it really is that simple. You cannot explain precisely...you just think you can..imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 09:48:51 AM
Some people are more interested in criticising other posters than explaining how seemingly impossible scenarios occurred. In my opinion that's because they can't explain.
And some people seem able to pick and choose who to believe is giving wholly accurate statements when it suits them, to fit their own particular agenda.  I can easily explain "impossible" scenarios that various witness statements when taken together seem to suggest.  It's because witnesses do not always remember every single detail, or every single detail exactly.  Amy remembers seeing the window up.  She is an independent witness.  She may be right as she has no reason to lie, and her statement backs up Kate's.   You don't like her statement for that reason so you ridicule her by repeatedly referring to her as "clever Amy".  That's childish.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
We can't explain precisely because we weren't there..it really is that simple. You cannot explain precisely...you just think you can..imo

Neither can OG. Just like you they've chosen to believe the McCanns about the open shutters and window. So the abduction theory rests on believing the McCanns, not on any objective evidence imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 10:13:14 AM
Neither can OG. Just like you they've chosen to believe the McCanns about the open shutters and window. So the abduction theory rests on believing the McCanns, not on any objective evidence.
The Germans seem to believe the McCanns too, and the Portuguese say CB is a suspect - do you think they believe the McCanns and CB colluded together? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 10:20:46 AM
Neither can OG. Just like you they've chosen to believe the McCanns about the open shutters and window. So the abduction theory rests on believing the McCanns, not on any objective evidence imo.

As Ive expalined before much of Justice is based on who is beleived. SY obvioulsy beleive the  McCanns are telling the truth. They will have their reasons for beleiving them based on their professional experience...based on speaking to them ..based on their actions since...based on the fact that theres no real evidence against them to support an accident and death in the apartment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 10:32:52 AM
And some people seem able to pick and choose who to believe is giving wholly accurate statements when it suits them, to fit their own particular agenda.  I can easily explain "impossible" scenarios that various witness statements when taken together seem to suggest.  It's because witnesses do not always remember every single detail, or every single detail exactly.  Amy remembers seeing the window up.  She is an independent witness.  She may be right as she has no reason to lie, and her statement backs up Kate's.   You don't like her statement for that reason so you ridicule her by repeatedly referring to her as "clever Amy".  That's childish.

Amy, I assume, saw Fiona Payne in the apartment with the parents. Fiona entered 5A at 10.10pm at the earliest. Only Kate was there and Fiona searched the apartment, including;

I think I touched the webbing in that room, but because Sean and Amelie were asleep, I didn't actually open the shutter in that room
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

If Amy went to 5A before 10.10pm she wouldn't have seen Fiona, who says the shutter was closed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 10:34:42 AM
Amy, I assume, saw Fiona Payne in the apartment with the parents. Fiona entered 5A at 10.10pm at the earliest. Only Kate was there and Fiona searched the apartment, including;

I think I touched the webbing in that room, but because Sean and Amelie were asleep, I didn't actually open the shutter in that room
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

If Amy went to 5A before 10.10pm she wouldn't have seen Fiona, who says the shutter was closed.

Faith made a list of posts to support Sandra knowing she was lied to before the dogs interview...she was convinced but when Sandra was asked directly she replied she didn't..I'm sure SY  have asked all the questions and are happy with the answers
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 10:43:59 AM
Amy, I assume, saw Fiona Payne in the apartment with the parents. Fiona entered 5A at 10.10pm at the earliest. Only Kate was there and Fiona searched the apartment, including;

I think I touched the webbing in that room, but because Sean and Amelie were asleep, I didn't actually open the shutter in that room
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

If Amy went to 5A before 10.10pm she wouldn't have seen Fiona, who says the shutter was closed.
So you're putting more faith in the honesty and accuracy of Fiona Payne than Amy Tierney now are you?  Interesting...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 28, 2020, 10:44:13 AM
Neither can OG. Just like you they've chosen to believe the McCanns about the open shutters and window. So the abduction theory rests on believing the McCanns, not on any objective evidence imo.

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree and that is true when comparing Amaral’s destructive obsession with Kate and Gerry McCann and time which for him which seems to have been stopped back in September 2007 while the rest of the world moved on.

It is evident in the fixation Amaral's supporters have in promulgating almost exactly what he says that some at least are also caught like flies in amber and many of whom outshine Amaral's meaningless and boring petty detestations.

Amaral:
Therefore, if there is a kidnapper to leave no marks, this would be the entry point.
But within that line of implying that the children were safe, it was invented that a window was found open, but there is great confusion in the statements because some say they were open, others did not know.
but there is one thing that the child's mother says in statements and that is that when she was in the apartment that window was always closed, with the shutters closed.
What is asked is why that night the only fingerprint that appears in the window is that of the child's mother and not of an alleged abductor.

Interviewer:
Those were the doubts you always had?

Amaral:
These are not doubts.
They are certainties.
We are sure that no one passed through there.
If anyone comes to say that they entered and left the window, it is completely a lie.



From Amaral’s ‘fragile’ abduction theory to Amaral’s Calpol theory … Amaral continues to bang the same drum he always has and in my opinion all the while demonstrating his unique incapability of organising a search in a cattery for a cat let alone the search for a missing child.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 10:44:47 AM
As Ive expalined before much of Justice is based on who is beleived. SY obvioulsy beleive the  McCanns are telling the truth. They will have their reasons for beleiving them based on their professional experience...based on speaking to them ..based on their actions since...based on the fact that theres no real evidence against them to support an accident and death in the apartment.

Sad but true. Police officers and Judges base their judgements on belief rather than evidence just like everyone else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 10:53:43 AM
The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree and that is true when comparing Amaral’s destructive obsession with Kate and Gerry McCann and time which for him which seems to have been stopped back in September 2007 while the rest of the world moved on.

It is evident in the fixation Amaral's supporters have in promulgating almost exactly what he says that some at least are also caught like flies in amber and many of whom outshine Amaral's meaningless and boring petty detestations.

Amaral:
Therefore, if there is a kidnapper to leave no marks, this would be the entry point.
But within that line of implying that the children were safe, it was invented that a window was found open, but there is great confusion in the statements because some say they were open, others did not know.
but there is one thing that the child's mother says in statements and that is that when she was in the apartment that window was always closed, with the shutters closed.
What is asked is why that night the only fingerprint that appears in the window is that of the child's mother and not of an alleged abductor.

Interviewer:
Those were the doubts you always had?

Amaral:
These are not doubts.
They are certainties.
We are sure that no one passed through there.
If anyone comes to say that they entered and left the window, it is completely a lie.



From Amaral’s ‘fragile’ abduction theory to Amaral’s Calpol theory … Amaral continues to bang the same drum he always has and in my opinion all the while demonstrating his unique incapability of organising a search in a cattery for a cat let alone the search for a missing child.

Some believe the McCanns and some don't, including Amaral. Some are happy to ignore the inconsistencies in the statements and some aren't, including Amaral. For me, I don't know why people believe the McCanns, but I can see the inconsistencies for myself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 28, 2020, 11:02:03 AM
If kate had opened the shutters from the outside she would have realised they were not security shutters and would not have claimed they hade been forced or broken. if she raised them after finding them raised in the first palce she would have thought if they were security shutters they ahd been forced and the mechanism broken...it fits perfectly

Gerry opened them from outside but still claimed that they were broken.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 11:04:47 AM
Some believe the McCanns and some don't, including Amaral. Some are happy to ignore the inconsistencies in the statements and some aren't, including Amaral. For me, I don't know why people believe the McCanns, but I can see the inconsistencies for myself.
But despite not believing them, you don't believe they had a direct hand in their daughter's disappearance?  Amaral does, but that's where you and he differ is it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 28, 2020, 11:06:26 AM
Faith made a list of posts to support Sandra knowing she was lied to before the dogs interview...she was convinced but when Sandra was asked directly she replied she didn't..I'm sure SY  have asked all the questions and are happy with the answers

Then Sandra is either dishonest or a very poor journalist as she must have received the file disc, like all other journalists, in July 2008, after the archiving, and the ‘dogs’ interview was in November 2009.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
Gerry opened them from outside but still claimed that they were broken.

If Gerry thought they were security shutters and he could easily lift them it's consistent with them being broken...quite a reasonable assumption
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 11:13:05 AM
Then Sandra is either dishonest or a very poor journalist as she must have received the file disc, like all other journalists, in July 2008, after the archiving, and the ‘dogs’ interview was in November 2009.

In your biased opinion...she has stated clearly she didn't know she was lied to when she asked the question...perhaps you have just got your facts wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 28, 2020, 11:16:34 AM
If Gerry thought they were security shutters and he could easily lift them it's consistent with them being broken...quite a reasonable assumption

So he did say that they’d been jemmied or broken to his family ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 28, 2020, 11:18:26 AM
As Ive expalined before much of Justice is based on who is beleived. SY obvioulsy beleive the  McCanns are telling the truth. They will have their reasons for beleiving them based on their professional experience...based on speaking to them ..based on their actions since...based on the fact that theres no real evidence against them to support an accident and death in the apartment.

Is there any real evidence against C B..apart from a PAYG phone.ping
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 11:20:38 AM
Is there any real evidence against C B..apart from a PAYG phone.ping

According to HCW yes.. concrete evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 11:21:12 AM
So he did say that they’d been jemmied or broken to his family ?

You would need to ask him...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 11:22:25 AM
Some believe the McCanns and some don't, including Amaral. Some are happy to ignore the inconsistencies in the statements and some aren't, including Amaral. For me, I don't know why people believe the McCanns, but I can see the inconsistencies for myself.

You don't know the statements are accurate
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 11:23:54 AM
Sad but true. Police officers and Judges base their judgements on belief rather than evidence just like everyone else.
No based on evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 28, 2020, 11:26:11 AM
According to HCW yes.. concrete evidence

well seems all relies on the phone call.


 
 “The normally-reserved German prosecutors are desperate for that information.”
A phone allegedly belonging to Christian B was "pinged" by a cell phone tower in Praia da Luz, close to where Madeleine disappeared, on the night she went missing.
The mystery call was received on a mobile phone that is believed to belong to the suspect at 7.32pm and finished at 8.02pm.
Madeleine was last seen at 9.05pm, when her father Gerry McCann checked the room and left via the unlocked patio doors.
Hans Christian Wolters, Braunschweig public prosecutor, discussed the development in the case during the ITV documentary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 28, 2020, 11:26:46 AM
Some believe the McCanns and some don't, including Amaral. Some are happy to ignore the inconsistencies in the statements and some aren't, including Amaral. For me, I don't know why people believe the McCanns, but I can see the inconsistencies for myself.

Given that a new prime suspect has emerged into the public domain thirteen years after Madeleine vanished and Amaral was put in charge of her case, reading what he says now, clarifies the personal limitations which resulted in Madeleine’s case going in fast circles to nowhere.

Interviewer
So, in your opinion, does the German pedophile being investigated now appear?

Amaral
Exactly, as the couple says that he has been a paedophile since the first hour, a paedophile has to appear.

Interviewer
But was he really at Praia da Luz at the time of the facts?

Amaral
He and a hundred more.
It was not the only case.
That is why I consider this suspect to be a scapegoat and this has happened over the years.
I say the same thing again, first prove that there was a kidnapping there and you can only prove it if that couple and their friends speak the truth. You look for one thing without proving another.

Interviewer
 Is that why you say this suspect is almost perfect?

Amaral
It has a pedophile profile.
This disclosure was about to move forward last year ...

Interviewer
But facts have been released now, like the van, his image ...

Amaral
The German police were to disclose the two forms of the van, what it would look like without the paintings and how it was now transported to Germany with figures. That is how we would be serious.

The other issue concerns the image of the suspect himself.
There is an image that is being published, but you cannot show someone's image after a few years.
Showing images at 43 is not the same thing as showing at 30.

In 2006, which is the closest year to the event, he ( Christian Brückner ) had another image, with a little short hair. In 2007, there are people who claim that he looked like a hippie with hair behind his back.

And here we come back to the question of hair and testimonies following the disappearance in which the couple's friend says she saw a man with short hair.
What is asked is why robot images and portraits are allowed that go against a certain profile of someone who is similar to what was said in that statement.

Interviewer
What does this German citizen know today, what was known in 2007?

Amaral
No. If we knew what is known today, we would have to find out.

Interviewer
Did this name appear at the time?

Amaral
They told me that it will have appeared on a list with more than a hundred names.
 
Interviewer
Today, with all that is known, what should be done?

Amaral
Back to the point of the investigation where she was in September 2007.


Being aware of the information about Brueckner now in the public domain ... Amaral can see no further than back in 2007 the parents of a missing child were horrified that she might have been abducted by a paedophile.

Brueckner is their 'scapegoat' in Amaral's opinion.

Thirteen years on with all that has come to pass Amaral thinks that only a return to the Amaral version of investigation of 2007 before he was sacked from it will achieve results.

I think that is mindbogglingly incredible and I seriously think this guy has issues which a normal personality would know not to air on a public platform lest people start to put a name to whatever it is his issues may be.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 12:06:22 PM
Given that a new prime suspect has emerged into the public domain thirteen years after Madeleine vanished and Amaral was put in charge of her case, reading what he says now, clarifies the personal limitations which resulted in Madeleine’s case going in fast circles to nowhere.

Interviewer
So, in your opinion, does the German pedophile being investigated now appear?

Amaral
Exactly, as the couple says that he has been a paedophile since the first hour, a paedophile has to appear.

Interviewer
But was he really at Praia da Luz at the time of the facts?

Amaral
He and a hundred more.
It was not the only case.
That is why I consider this suspect to be a scapegoat and this has happened over the years.
I say the same thing again, first prove that there was a kidnapping there and you can only prove it if that couple and their friends speak the truth. You look for one thing without proving another.

Interviewer
 Is that why you say this suspect is almost perfect?

Amaral
It has a pedophile profile.
This disclosure was about to move forward last year ...

Interviewer
But facts have been released now, like the van, his image ...

Amaral
The German police were to disclose the two forms of the van, what it would look like without the paintings and how it was now transported to Germany with figures. That is how we would be serious.

The other issue concerns the image of the suspect himself.
There is an image that is being published, but you cannot show someone's image after a few years.
Showing images at 43 is not the same thing as showing at 30.

In 2006, which is the closest year to the event, he ( Christian Brückner ) had another image, with a little short hair. In 2007, there are people who claim that he looked like a hippie with hair behind his back.

And here we come back to the question of hair and testimonies following the disappearance in which the couple's friend says she saw a man with short hair.
What is asked is why robot images and portraits are allowed that go against a certain profile of someone who is similar to what was said in that statement.

Interviewer
What does this German citizen know today, what was known in 2007?

Amaral
No. If we knew what is known today, we would have to find out.

Interviewer
Did this name appear at the time?

Amaral
They told me that it will have appeared on a list with more than a hundred names.
 
Interviewer
Today, with all that is known, what should be done?

Amaral
Back to the point of the investigation where she was in September 2007.


Being aware of the information about Brueckner now in the public domain ... Amaral can see no further than back in 2007 the parents of a missing child were horrified that she might have been abducted by a paedophile.

Brueckner is their 'scapegoat' in Amaral's opinion.

Thirteen years on with all that has come to pass Amaral thinks that only a return to the Amaral version of investigation of 2007 before he was sacked from it will achieve results.

I think that is mindbogglingly incredible and I seriously think this guy has issues which a normal personality would know not to air on a public platform lest people start to put a name to whatever it is his issues may be.

Clinging to the belief in abduction has resulted in lots of searching for an abductor or abductors. If the belief in abduction is misplaced then an awful lot of time and money has been wasted. Amaral's right; first confirm that abduction was the crime committed and that's not possible imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 12:12:30 PM
Clinging to the belief in abduction has resulted in lots of searching for an abductor or abductors. If the belief in abduction is misplaced then an awful lot of time and money has been wasted. Amaral's right; first confirm that abduction was the crime committed and that's not possible imo.

you might think its not possible  ...based on the evidence I would say its highly likely and it seems SY agree and so do the Germans as they are digging in Hanover. i don't see why anyone shoud take any notice of Amaral with his inability to understand the evidence...and his gullibility in accepting the lies told about the dogs
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 12:12:37 PM
Clinging to the belief in abduction has resulted in lots of searching for an abductor or abductors. If the belief in abduction is misplaced then an awful lot of time and money has been wasted. Amaral's right; first confirm that abduction was the crime committed and that's not possible imo.
Abduction is the only plausible logical explanation as any decent investigative team would have been able to work out many years ago.  What you seem to be suggesting is that no crime should be investigated until it has been 100% established what the crime is, or even if there is a crime to investigate.  So, for example in the case of Ben Needham the Greek police should have turned up, said we don't know for certain what's gone on here, sorry can't help" (which actually is pretty much what they did do) and that's acceptable policing is it?  The mind boggles... 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 12:23:23 PM
Abduction is the only plausible logical explanation as any decent investigative team would have been able to work out many years ago.  What you seem to be suggesting is that no crime should be investigated until it has been 100% established what the crime is, or even if there is a crime to investigate.  So, for example in the case of Ben Needham the Greek police should have turned up, said we don't know for certain what's gone on here, sorry can't help" (which actually is pretty much what they did do) and that's acceptable policing is it?  The mind boggles...

No, I'm suggesting that an investigation should keep an open mind about what happened, not pick a crime to believe in without anything to prove it happened. I think it's perfectly plausible and logical that a child of almost four could leave an unlocked apartment, and it can't be disproved except by the testimony of those who were the last to see the child and who left her unsupervised.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 28, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
you might think its not possible  ...based on the evidence I would say its highly likely and it seems SY agree and so do the Germans as they are digging in Hanover. i don't see why anyone shoud take any notice of Amaral with his inability to understand the evidence...and his gullibility in accepting the lies told about the dogs

Far too much interference from UK IMO

GA didn't stand a chance to investigate this as he wanted ....as it should have been investigated in the first place.

The abduction theory was the main focus...even though there was not one scrap of evidence of that happening.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 12:34:37 PM
No, I'm suggesting that an investigation should keep an open mind about what happened, not pick a crime to believe in without anything to prove it happened. I think it's perfectly plausible and logical that a child of almost four could leave an unlocked apartment, and it can't be disproved except by the testimony of those who were the last to see the child and who left her unsupervised.

again you are mistaken imo....you are not in possession of all the facts...the archiving report by the Pj said woke and wandered was highly unlikely
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 12:35:42 PM
No, I'm suggesting that an investigation should keep an open mind about what happened, not pick a crime to believe in without anything to prove it happened. I think it's perfectly plausible and logical that a child of almost four could leave an unlocked apartment, and it can't be disproved except by the testimony of those who were the last to see the child and who left her unsupervised.
Why then do you think the Portuguese Police concluded that "woke and wandered" was the least plausible scenario?  What didn't they consider that you have, in arriving at your opinion? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 28, 2020, 12:54:54 PM
again you are mistaken imo....you are not in possession of all the facts...the archiving report by the Pj said woke and wandered was highly unlikely
Do you believe the PJ?   I thought you had doubts about how good the PJ were.  So why do you believe them on this issue?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 01:00:24 PM
Do you believe the PJ?   I thought you had doubts about how good the PJ were.  So why do you believe them on this issue?

I believe things based on evidence for the PJ to have said this they must have had some eevidence. Why else would they say it. They may be completely useless and have no evidence of it...thats always a possibility
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 28, 2020, 01:09:05 PM
No, I'm suggesting that an investigation should keep an open mind about what happened, not pick a crime to believe in without anything to prove it happened. I think it's perfectly plausible and logical that a child of almost four could leave an unlocked apartment, and it can't be disproved except by the testimony of those who were the last to see the child and who left her unsupervised.

But don't you see ... the situation as you describe it ... is precisely what Amaral did;  he described it in his book having slept on it.

He did it immediately ... had a slight tour around Robert Murat ... then homed in on Kate and Gerry after Mr Smith 'cleared' Murat ... and has kept incessantly at it ever since.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 02:15:59 PM
Why then do you think the Portuguese Police concluded that "woke and wandered" was the least plausible scenario?  What didn't they consider that you have, in arriving at your opinion?

I don't hang on the words or actions of any police force. In Madeleine's case we have access to most of the evidence initially collected so I can draw my own conclusions. If I were guessing I would say that they would have expected to find her if she had wandered off. I can imagine a wander followed by a return.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 28, 2020, 02:18:38 PM
But don't you see ... the situation as you describe it ... is precisely what Amaral did;  he described it in his book having slept on it.

He did it immediately ... had a slight tour around Robert Murat ... then homed in on Kate and Gerry after Mr Smith 'cleared' Murat ... and has kept incessantly at it ever since.

. and has kept incessantly at it ever since.

Don't you think there could be a method in his madness.

After all, he knows more about the case than you do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 28, 2020, 02:18:59 PM
But don't you see ... the situation as you describe it ... is precisely what Amaral did;  he described it in his book having slept on it.

He did it immediately ... had a slight tour around Robert Murat ... then homed in on Kate and Gerry after Mr Smith 'cleared' Murat ... and has kept incessantly at it ever since.
...and yet Davel insists Snr Amaral has stopped pushing his apparent agenda. Which is it guys? Another meeting perhaps?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 02:31:20 PM
...and yet Davel insists Snr Amaral has stopped pushing his apparent agenda. Which is it guys? Another meeting perhaps?
Goading pure and simple, trying to make out all supporters sing from exactly the same hymn sheet. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 02:42:46 PM
. and has kept incessantly at it ever since.

Don't you think there could be a method in his madness.

After all, he knows more about the case than you do.

I don't think he does..I certainly know more about the DNA and the alerts than he does
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 02:56:52 PM
Goading pure and simple, trying to make out all supporters sing from exactly the same hymn sheet.  Put a sock in it The General.

What do you call the references to sceptic beliefs' and 'sceptic shibboleths' then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 28, 2020, 03:03:39 PM
I don't think he does..I certainly know more about the DNA and the alerts than he does

Allegedly

They  hampered the situation ...in every way they could imo

 Finally, we would like to question the group of friends again, to confront them about their contradictions concerning their system for
 checking the children during the evening dinners at the Ocean Club.

At the same time, we hope to obtain a response to our request to the British authorities, made through the liaison officer in Portugal on the first day of the investigation, for information on the McCann family and their friends. Given the fact that we have, so far, received no response to this enquiry, we will make the request for the desired information through the rogatory letter. We ask Stuart about this matter and he says that, "they are in the process of gathering that information."

However, a preliminary response comes to us about the McCanns' financial situation: astonishingly, there are no records of the McCanns holding any credit or debit cards.

- That's quite simply not possible!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 28, 2020, 03:22:50 PM
What do you call the references to sceptic beliefs' and 'sceptic shibboleths' then?
shibboleth ~ belief distinguishing a particular class or group of people, especially a long-standing one regarded as outmoded or no longer important.

I wish I had a pound for every criticism I have seen of Jane Tanner in comments under articles ~ in fora ~ all social media ... and here we have Amaral mouthing off about her still.
Jane Tanner was a witness ... not a liar to be held up to ridicule ... which is really rather rich coming from a convicted perjurer.

Interviewer
But why was it not done?

Amaral
Because there is no interest.

There are two moments that are important in this narrative of disappearance.

One is a first testimony of a lady (Jane Tanner) who is a friend of the couple, who was on vacation with them and also left their children alone.

That night of May 3, this lady had to take turns with her husband to go and see her daughter because she would be ill-disposed.

And this lady makes a testimony and is the first to say that she saw a man with a child on his lap leaving that area and that he sees him in certain circumstances and that he was dressed in a certain way and that he goes down the street towards the house of the one who we came to know afterwards that it was Robert Murat (he was even accused in the process).

What we conclude is that you lied.

On the first day she says this to the police and says again when she was formally heard.
We advanced in the investigation and then we were looking for that man based on this testimony. We arrived at Murat, did all the research and came to the conclusion that he was not the person and in the midst of this investigation Murat is the one who comes across a testimony that is essential.
No investigation can proceed without taking this testimony into account.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 03:35:12 PM
Allegedly

They  hampered the situation ...in every way they could imo

 Finally, we would like to question the group of friends again, to confront them about their contradictions concerning their system for
 checking the children during the evening dinners at the Ocean Club.

At the same time, we hope to obtain a response to our request to the British authorities, made through the liaison officer in Portugal on the first day of the investigation, for information on the McCann family and their friends. Given the fact that we have, so far, received no response to this enquiry, we will make the request for the desired information through the rogatory letter. We ask Stuart about this matter and he says that, "they are in the process of gathering that information."

However, a preliminary response comes to us about the McCanns' financial situation: astonishingly, there are no records of the McCanns holding any credit or debit cards.

- That's quite simply not possible!


I'm fairly sure that's wrong too...is it a quote from his book...he got lots wrong.

It's a matter of record Amaral did not understand the alerts or the DNA...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 03:37:31 PM
What do you call the references to sceptic beliefs' and 'sceptic shibboleths' then?

The first and major one is that the alerts are a strong or reasonably reliable indication of a cadaver having been in 5a...it's what you believe as I understand
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 28, 2020, 03:38:53 PM
What do you call the references to sceptic beliefs' and 'sceptic shibboleths' then?
  ... and after all these years Amaral is still pushing that the man seen by the Smiths is Madeleine's father with a slight upping of the odds to 90%
But I think I am right in saying this is also a widely held belief constantly shared as it was here by Amaral.

Amaral

  ... statements are heard and they say that they could not identify the man because he had his face turned away and the child, who was blonde, covered his face.
They said that this person was walking in a hurry and did not look like a tourist.

After a while, when the Maccann couple, return to the United Kingdom and get on the plane, that couple is watching the report and says "this was the person I saw that night", not for recognizing her, and in this case it was the figure of the father, but because of the way he walked.

So it is not an acknowledgment that has legal value, but they say it could be 90 percent Maddie's father.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 28, 2020, 03:50:56 PM
I'm fairly sure that's wrong too...is it a quote from his book...he got lots wrong.

It's a matter of record Amaral did not understand the alerts or the DNA...

You can't prove he did get anything wrong ..its only your opinion.

Also the fact you was not there....and GA was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 28, 2020, 03:56:53 PM
  ... and after all these years Amaral is still pushing that the man seen by the Smiths is Madeleine's father with a slight upping of the odds to 90%
But I think I am right in saying this is also a widely held belief constantly shared as it was here by Amaral.

Amaral

  ... statements are heard and they say that they could not identify the man because he had his face turned away and the child, who was blonde, covered his face.
They said that this person was walking in a hurry and did not look like a tourist.

After a while, when the Maccann couple, return to the United Kingdom and get on the plane, that couple is watching the report and says "this was the person I saw that night", not for recognizing her, and in this case it was the figure of the father, but because of the way he walked.

So it is not an acknowledgment that has legal value, but they say it could be 90 percent Maddie's father.

90%?  Where did Amaral get that from?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 28, 2020, 04:04:16 PM
You can't prove he did get anything wrong ..its only your opinion.

Also the fact you was not there....and GA was.

No it's fact..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 04:34:46 PM
What do you call the references to sceptic beliefs' and 'sceptic shibboleths' then?
Perfectly reasonable.  Many of you do share the same beliefs but I don't insult you when you express differences of opinion from each other by suggesting you need to have a meeting to get your opinions in line as The General has done so today.  Is goading alright by you when The General does it then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 28, 2020, 04:43:07 PM
No it's fact..

The fact is the book still stands ........all the time the mccs tried to discredit TTOTL it is still there.





FRAUD OR ABUSE OF TRUST?

During a more relaxed moment at one of these meetings, I come out with an ill-judged comment. Inopportune or undiplomatic, but this is my reasoning: thinking about the kinds of crime that may have been committed if the McCanns were involved in their daughter's disappearance, something occurs to me. If they were involved in one way or another, then a crime of fraud or abuse of trust is a possibility concerning the fund that was set up to finance the search for Madeleine. Donations have reached nearly 3 million Euros.

If such a crime exists, Portugal would not have jurisdiction to investigate and try it. The fund being legally registered in England, it would be our English colleagues who would deal with the case. Our English colleagues then realise a hard reality: the strong possibility that they would have a crime to investigate in their own country, with the McCAnn couple as the main suspects: a prospect that does not seem to appeal to them. I notice a sudden pallor in the faces of those British people present.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 04:45:36 PM
The fact is the book still stands ........all the time the mccs tried to discredit TTOTL it is still there.





FRAUD OR ABUSE OF TRUST?

During a more relaxed moment at one of these meetings, I come out with an ill-judged comment. Inopportune or undiplomatic, but this is my reasoning: thinking about the kinds of crime that may have been committed if the McCanns were involved in their daughter's disappearance, something occurs to me. If they were involved in one way or another, then a crime of fraud or abuse of trust is a possibility concerning the fund that was set up to finance the search for Madeleine. Donations have reached nearly 3 million Euros.

If such a crime exists, Portugal would not have jurisdiction to investigate and try it. The fund being legally registered in England, it would be our English colleagues who would deal with the case. Our English colleagues then realise a hard reality: the strong possibility that they would have a crime to investigate in their own country, with the McCAnn couple as the main suspects: a prospect that does not seem to appeal to them. I notice a sudden pallor in the faces of those British people present.

Why would the faces of those British people take on a "sudden pallor" at the realisation that if the fund was a fraud it would be for the British to investigate it?  What exactly is he suggesting, the little tinker?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 28, 2020, 05:23:16 PM
Why would the faces of those British people take on a "sudden pallor" at the realisation that if the fund was a fraud it would be for the British to investigate it?  What exactly is he suggesting, the little tinker?

Just another unfounded accusation that seems to be the norm in Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on July 28, 2020, 05:56:28 PM
Just another unfounded accusation that seems to be the norm in Portugal.

As rampant xenophobia seems to be amongst British citizens, both those who still reside here and those who don’t.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 28, 2020, 05:58:22 PM
Just another unfounded accusation that seems to be the norm in Portugal.
Amaral certainly doesn’t seem very keen on the British does he?  Xenophobe!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 28, 2020, 06:12:10 PM
The fact is the book still stands ........all the time the mccs tried to discredit TTOTL it is still there.





FRAUD OR ABUSE OF TRUST?

During a more relaxed moment at one of these meetings, I come out with an ill-judged comment. Inopportune or undiplomatic, but this is my reasoning: thinking about the kinds of crime that may have been committed if the McCanns were involved in their daughter's disappearance, something occurs to me. If they were involved in one way or another, then a crime of fraud or abuse of trust is a possibility concerning the fund that was set up to finance the search for Madeleine. Donations have reached nearly 3 million Euros.

If such a crime exists, Portugal would not have jurisdiction to investigate and try it. The fund being legally registered in England, it would be our English colleagues who would deal with the case. Our English colleagues then realise a hard reality: the strong possibility that they would have a crime to investigate in their own country, with the McCAnn couple as the main suspects: a prospect that does not seem to appeal to them. I notice a sudden pallor in the faces of those British people present.


Could that possibly be another shibboleth direct from the pages of Amaral's book of lies ??
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 28, 2020, 06:16:31 PM
Could that possibly be another shibboleth direct from the pages of Amaral's book of lies ??

That is in your opinion.

For all the time effort and court cases...the mccs still failed to get it banned.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 28, 2020, 06:34:11 PM
As rampant xenophobia seems to be amongst British citizens, both those who still reside here and those who don’t.

I wouldn't live in England if you paid me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2020, 06:34:46 PM
  ... and after all these years Amaral is still pushing that the man seen by the Smiths is Madeleine's father with a slight upping of the odds to 90%
But I think I am right in saying this is also a widely held belief constantly shared as it was here by Amaral.

Amaral

  ... statements are heard and they say that they could not identify the man because he had his face turned away and the child, who was blonde, covered his face.
They said that this person was walking in a hurry and did not look like a tourist.

After a while, when the Maccann couple, return to the United Kingdom and get on the plane, that couple is watching the report and says "this was the person I saw that night", not for recognizing her, and in this case it was the figure of the father, but because of the way he walked.

So it is not an acknowledgment that has legal value, but they say it could be 90 percent Maddie's father.

Do you think pointing out what someone saw or said is;

Drawing attention to their evidence or;

Declaring an unshakeable belief in that evidence?

In my opinion you are conflating the two.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 29, 2020, 08:15:54 AM
As rampant xenophobia seems to be amongst British citizens, both those who still reside here and those who don’t.

I think its  a little unfair to use the phrase  "rampant xenophobia" directed towards Eleanor
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 29, 2020, 08:19:52 AM
Do you think pointing out what someone saw or said is;

Drawing attention to their evidence or;

Declaring an unshakeable belief in that evidence?

In my opinion you are conflating the two.

Why is Amaral distorting and misreporting the evidence...making up the 90% figure.....surely thats a much more important criticism
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 29, 2020, 08:33:44 AM
Why is Amaral distorting and misreporting the evidence...making up the 90% figure.....surely thats a much more important criticism
Because he is a compulsive liar with a bitter hatred of the McCanns is my guess.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 29, 2020, 08:38:01 AM
I think its  a little unfair to use the phrase  "rampant xenophobia" directed towards Eleanor

It isn't very nice, is it.  I have lived in France for longer than I have ever lived anywhere else.

I was born in London but my heart is in Scotland.  Work that one out if you can.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 29, 2020, 08:39:46 AM
I think its  a little unfair to use the phrase  "rampant xenophobia" directed towards Eleanor

Goodness me.  I have Liked your Comment Twice.  I bet that's a first.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 29, 2020, 08:57:07 AM
Do you think pointing out what someone saw or said is;

Drawing attention to their evidence or;

Declaring an unshakeable belief in that evidence?

In my opinion you are conflating the two.

Conflating the evidence is precisely what Amaral was paid to do.  Unfortunately the ability to combine more than one piece of evidence into component parts of another was not his strong point.

Amaral had the means to have the access to Brueckner's file and according to him he was looked at along with a hundred others at the time.
Amaral didn't bother too much that Brueckner wasn't traced and interviewed at the time (he already had his culprits firmly in his sights, according to him}.  A missing paedophile immediately after a child disappears ~ didn't ring alarm bells ???
If he had been traced and interviewed his cell phone number would have been found and matched against the phone dump organised by the British police.

Then Amaral already had the case cracked didn't he ... every ping of the McCann's phones were registered and exhaustively scrutinised by his investigation.

The only problem being they were the wrong phones and since Amaral has emerged as the expert on the vehicle being driven at the time by the known missing from Luz, paedophile Brueckner ... why wasn't he looking for it and its occupants???

A little bit of conflating by Amaral might have gone a very long way back in 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 29, 2020, 09:07:47 AM
Conflating the evidence is precisely what Amaral was paid to do.  Unfortunately the ability to combine more than one piece of evidence into component parts of another was not his strong point.

Amaral had the means to have the access to Brueckner's file and according to him he was looked at along with a hundred others at the time.
Amaral didn't bother too much that Brueckner wasn't traced and interviewed at the time (he already had his culprits firmly in his sights, according to him}.  A missing paedophile immediately after a child disappears ~ didn't ring alarm bells ???
If he had been traced and interviewed his cell phone number would have been found and matched against the phone dump organised by the British police.

Then Amaral already had the case cracked didn't he ... every ping of the McCann's phones were registered and exhaustively scrutinised by his investigation.

The only problem being they were the wrong phones and since Amaral has emerged as the expert on the vehicle being driven at the time by the known missing from Luz, paedophile Brueckner ... why wasn't he looking for it and its occupants???

A little bit of conflating by Amaral might have gone a very long way back in 2007.

A bit of Gonflating might have done just as well, although it probably was.

This is not a Typo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 29, 2020, 09:25:58 AM
A bit of Gonflating might have done just as well, although it probably was.

This is not a Typo.
Love it.
"Gonflate" verb - to overstate the abilities of an erstwile corpulent, sweaty Portuguese cop.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 29, 2020, 10:26:28 AM
Conflating the evidence is precisely what Amaral was paid to do.  Unfortunately the ability to combine more than one piece of evidence into component parts of another was not his strong point.

Amaral had the means to have the access to Brueckner's file and according to him he was looked at along with a hundred others at the time.
Amaral didn't bother too much that Brueckner wasn't traced and interviewed at the time (he already had his culprits firmly in his sights, according to him}.  A missing paedophile immediately after a child disappears ~ didn't ring alarm bells ???
If he had been traced and interviewed his cell phone number would have been found and matched against the phone dump organised by the British police.

Then Amaral already had the case cracked didn't he ... every ping of the McCann's phones were registered and exhaustively scrutinised by his investigation.

The only problem being they were the wrong phones and since Amaral has emerged as the expert on the vehicle being driven at the time by the known missing from Luz, paedophile Brueckner ... why wasn't he looking for it and its occupants???

A little bit of conflating by Amaral might have gone a very long way back in 2007.

Martin Smith and his family's evidence was taken seriously by both the PJ and Operation Grange, who featured it on Crimewatch. I see no reason why it should be forgotten now, because it was never resolved; unlike the Tanner sighting which 'almost certainly' was.

Smith's opinion that he saw Gerry McCann is just as worthy as the opinions of all those thousands of people who reported sightings of Madeleine McCann. Yet all those who expressed outrage because some of those sightings weren't thoroughly investigated seem quite prepared to disagree with Mr Smith despite not knowing who he saw.

I will continue to mention the Smith sighting when necessary; not because of anything Amaral says and not because I believe it's true, but because it shouldn't be ignored.

I don't think a 'phone dump' was organised by the British police at all, unless you have evidence of that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 29, 2020, 10:28:56 AM
Martin Smith and his family's evidence was taken seriously by both the PJ and Operation Grange, who featured it on Crimewatch. I see no reason why it should be forgotten now, because it was never resolved; unlike the Tanner sighting which 'almost certainly' was.

Smith's opinion that he saw Gerry McCann is just as worthy as the opinions of all those thousands of people who reported sightings of Madeleine McCann. Yet all those who expressed outrage because some of those sightings weren't thoroughly investigated seem quite prepared to disagree with Mr Smith despite not knowing who he saw.

I will continue to mention the Smith sighting when necessary; not because of anything Amaral says and not because I believe it's true, but because it shouldn't be ignored.

I don't think a 'phone dump' was organised by the British police at all, unless you have evidence of that?

SY did take the Smith sighting seriously but the evidence available suggests they didn't think it was Gerry as Amaral did
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 29, 2020, 11:12:06 AM
SY did take the Smith sighting seriously but the evidence available suggests they didn't think it was Gerry as Amaral did

What evidence would that be?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 29, 2020, 11:47:02 AM
What evidence would that be?

Their statements that they thought Maddie was a victim of stranger abduction...simple
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 29, 2020, 12:08:45 PM
Their statements that they thought Maddie was a victim of stranger abduction...simple
I recall Gerry saying that "stranger abduction is very rare".   I can't recall anyone else saying it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 29, 2020, 12:26:11 PM
I recall Gerry saying that "stranger abduction is very rare".   I can't recall anyone else saying it.

It's a fact....stranger abduction is very rare but it's what Redwood said ..it's the remit of SY
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 29, 2020, 12:30:28 PM
It's a fact....stranger abduction is very rare but it's what Redwood said ..it's the remit of SY
When were those remits of SY released.  When did Redwood say anything about stranger abduction?  What do you remember?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 29, 2020, 12:35:59 PM
When were those remits of SY released.  When did Redwood say anything about stranger abduction?  What do you remember?

it all been discussed many times im not interested going over it again....Rowley stated his belief in abduction
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 29, 2020, 12:39:50 PM
Martin Smith and his family's evidence was taken seriously by both the PJ and Operation Grange, who featured it on Crimewatch. I see no reason why it should be forgotten now, because it was never resolved; unlike the Tanner sighting which 'almost certainly' was.

Smith's opinion that he saw Gerry McCann is just as worthy as the opinions of all those thousands of people who reported sightings of Madeleine McCann. Yet all those who expressed outrage because some of those sightings weren't thoroughly investigated seem quite prepared to disagree with Mr Smith despite not knowing who he saw.

I will continue to mention the Smith sighting when necessary; not because of anything Amaral says and not because I believe it's true, but because it shouldn't be ignored.

I don't think a 'phone dump' was organised by the British police at all, unless you have evidence of that?
“I don't think a 'phone dump' was organised by the British police at all, unless you have evidence of that?”

You may be correct in that I do not have evidence that the British police organised a phone dump in 2007 … but then I do not have evidence that the Portuguese Police took any steps to organise a phone dump either.

What I do have evidence of is that in 2007 the only effort made by the Portuguese to check phone data was, according to the files, in relation to the McCanns and the Tapas seven.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MOBILE_PHONE_ANALYSIS.htm
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PHONE_TEXTS.htm

The present information regarding Brueckner’s phone was extrapolated from phone information from 2007 held by Scotland Yard which in my opinion could only have been obtained by cooperation with the Portuguese Prosecutors and the phone providers at the relevant time.

So it figures somewhere but in the myopia of the Amaral investigation only the unimportant family traffic was considered of interest.

Snip
Officers from the BKA, Germany's federal police, obtained the number for a mobile phone that Brueckner had in 2007, but it was only when they cross-referenced it with data compiled by Scotland Yard from phone masts around Praia da Luz that they could place the 43-year-old near the Ocean Club from where Madeleine was taken.

They then discovered his phone received a call in Praia da Luz from someone at 7.32pm.
The call lasted until 8.02pm and the person who called Brueckner has not yet been identified. Madeleine vanished between 9.10pm and 10pm that evening.

German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters revealed painstaking Anglo-German police work led to the huge breakthrough

Mr Wolters said: 'Brueckner's telephone number comes from our investigation, but British police have a data pool from 2007 from Praia da Luz of all mobile numbers [used in that area at the time], so we put our telephone number to the data of the British police – and it matched.
'So we think that our suspect was, on the day Madeleine was kidnapped in Praia da Luz, near the apartment.'

He declined to provide details of how the BKA had found Brueckner's mobile number in 2007.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418479/Christian-Brueckner-identified-suspect-McCann-case-Mets-call-log-breakthrough.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 29, 2020, 12:41:14 PM
It's a fact....stranger abduction is very rare but it's what Redwood said ..it's the remit of SY
I did find a reference to Andy Redwood saying something about "stranger abduction".

"The detective leading the Metropolitan Police review said the case could still be solved as officers released a picture of what she might now look like as a nine-year-old.

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood said he believed her disappearance was a stranger abduction, and said there were 195 “investigative opportunities”.

Police refused to say what evidence they had uncovered to suggest Madeleine was alive." https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20191856.html

it all been discussed many times im not interested going over it again....Rowley stated his belief in abduction

I knew about Rowley's statement about abduction.  Is abduction and "stranger abduction" the same thing?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 29, 2020, 12:42:34 PM
I did find a reference to Andy Redwood saying something about "stranger abduction".

"The detective leading the Metropolitan Police review said the case could still be solved as officers released a picture of what she might now look like as a nine-year-old.

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood said he believed her disappearance was a stranger abduction, and said there were 195 “investigative opportunities”.

Police refused to say what evidence they had uncovered to suggest Madeleine was alive." https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20191856.html

I knew about Rowley's statement about abduction.  Is abduction and "stranger abduction" the same thing?

No.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 29, 2020, 12:46:29 PM
No.
That's what I was thinking, we have one person saying "stranger abduction" (not an acquaintance) and the other using the wider version "abduction", which could still mean an acquaintance has done it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 29, 2020, 03:04:36 PM
Given that a new prime suspect has emerged into the public domain thirteen years after Madeleine vanished and Amaral was put in charge of her case, reading what he says now, clarifies the personal limitations which resulted in Madeleine’s case going in fast circles to nowhere.

Interviewer
So, in your opinion, does the German pedophile being investigated now appear?

Amaral
Exactly, as the couple says that he has been a paedophile since the first hour, a paedophile has to appear.

Interviewer
But was he really at Praia da Luz at the time of the facts?

Amaral
He and a hundred more.
It was not the only case.
That is why I consider this suspect to be a scapegoat and this has happened over the years.
I say the same thing again, first prove that there was a kidnapping there and you can only prove it if that couple and their friends speak the truth. You look for one thing without proving another.

Interviewer
 Is that why you say this suspect is almost perfect?

Amaral
It has a pedophile profile.
This disclosure was about to move forward last year ...

Interviewer
But facts have been released now, like the van, his image ...

Amaral
The German police were to disclose the two forms of the van, what it would look like without the paintings and how it was now transported to Germany with figures. That is how we would be serious.

The other issue concerns the image of the suspect himself.
There is an image that is being published, but you cannot show someone's image after a few years.
Showing images at 43 is not the same thing as showing at 30.

In 2006, which is the closest year to the event, he ( Christian Brückner ) had another image, with a little short hair. In 2007, there are people who claim that he looked like a hippie with hair behind his back.

And here we come back to the question of hair and testimonies following the disappearance in which the couple's friend says she saw a man with short hair.
What is asked is why robot images and portraits are allowed that go against a certain profile of someone who is similar to what was said in that statement.

Interviewer
What does this German citizen know today, what was known in 2007?

Amaral
No. If we knew what is known today, we would have to find out.

Interviewer
Did this name appear at the time?

Amaral
They told me that it will have appeared on a list with more than a hundred names.
 
Interviewer
Today, with all that is known, what should be done?

Amaral
Back to the point of the investigation where she was in September 2007.


Being aware of the information about Brueckner now in the public domain ... Amaral can see no further than back in 2007 the parents of a missing child were horrified that she might have been abducted by a paedophile.

Brueckner is their 'scapegoat' in Amaral's opinion.

Thirteen years on with all that has come to pass Amaral thinks that only a return to the Amaral version of investigation of 2007 before he was sacked from it will achieve results.

I think that is mindbogglingly incredible and I seriously think this guy has issues which a normal personality would know not to air on a public platform lest people start to put a name to whatever it is his issues may be.


That was a delicate way of putting it.
Do you have a link to the original of that, Brie? Some of the wording seems a bit clunky in English.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 29, 2020, 11:28:56 PM

That was a delicate way of putting it.
Do you have a link to the original of that, Brie? Some of the wording seems a bit clunky in English.

Apologies, Carana, I should have included the link in the first instance.
https://jornaldocentro.pt/online/regiao/goncalo-amaral-investigador-do-caso-maddie-diz-que-teoria-do-rapto-e-mais-fragil


Por isso, na sua opinião, é que aparece agora o pedófilo alemão que está a ser investigado?
Exatamente, como o casal diz que é um pedófilo desde a primeira hora, tem de aparecer um pedófilo.

Mas ele estava realmente na Praia da Luz na altura dos factos?
Ele e mais uma centena. Não era caso único. Por isso é que eu considero que este suspeito é um bode expiatório e isto tem acontecido ao longo dos anos. Volto a dizer o mesmo, primeiro prove-se que houve ali um rapto e só se consegue provar isso se aquele casal e os amigos falarem a verdade. Procura-se uma coisa sem provar outra.

É por isso que diz que este suspeito é quase perfeito?
Tem um perfil de pedófilo. Esta divulgação estava já para avançar no ano passado...

Mas têm sido divulgados factos agora, como a carrinha, a imagem dele...
A polícia alemã deveria divulgar as duas formas da carrinha, como ela seria sem as pinturas e como ela foi agora transportada para a Alemanha com figuras. Assim é que estaríamos a ser sérios.

A outra questão prende-se com a imagem do próprio suspeito. Há uma imagem que está a ser divulgada, mas não se pode mostrar a imagem de alguém passado uns anos. Mostrar imagens com 43 anos não é a mesma coisa que mostrar com 30 anos. Em 2006, que é o ano mais próximo do acontecimento, ele (Christian Brückner) tinha outro imagem, com um cabelo meio curto. Em 2007, há pessoas que afirmam que ele parecia um hippie com cabelo pelas costas. E aqui voltamos à questão do cabelo e dos depoimentos a seguir ao desaparecimento em que a amiga do casal diz que viu um homem com cabelo curto. O que se pergunta é porque se permite imagens e retratos robots que vão de encontro a determinado perfil de alguém que é parecido com o que foi dito nesse depoimento.

O que sabe hoje deste cidadão alemão era o que se sabia em 2007?
Não. Se nós soubéssemos o que hoje se sabe, teríamos de averiguar.

Na altura este nome apareceu?
Contaram-me que terá aparecido numa listagem com mais de uma centena de nomes.

Hoje, com tudo isto que se sabe, o que deveria ser feito?
Voltar ao ponto da investigação onde ela estava em setembro de 2007.

 

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 30, 2020, 08:41:33 AM
Many thanks, Brietta.

"I was told..." Christian would have been on a list? Is that it? Sounds like if Christian hadn't been checked out, it was nothing to do with him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2020, 09:04:46 AM
Many thanks, Brietta.

"I was told..." Christian would have been on a list? Is that it? Sounds like if Christian hadn't been checked out, it was nothing to do with him.

I don't think a coordinator gathered lists together or investigated the people on the list. If the PJ work like British police those lower down the chain of command do such jobs and report back if they find anything significant.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 30, 2020, 09:12:08 AM
Apologies, Carana, I should have included the link in the first instance.
https://jornaldocentro.pt/online/regiao/goncalo-amaral-investigador-do-caso-maddie-diz-que-teoria-do-rapto-e-mais-fragil


Por isso, na sua opinião, é que aparece agora o pedófilo alemão que está a ser investigado?
Exatamente, como o casal diz que é um pedófilo desde a primeira hora, tem de aparecer um pedófilo.

Mas ele estava realmente na Praia da Luz na altura dos factos?
Ele e mais uma centena. Não era caso único. Por isso é que eu considero que este suspeito é um bode expiatório e isto tem acontecido ao longo dos anos. Volto a dizer o mesmo, primeiro prove-se que houve ali um rapto e só se consegue provar isso se aquele casal e os amigos falarem a verdade. Procura-se uma coisa sem provar outra.

É por isso que diz que este suspeito é quase perfeito?
Tem um perfil de pedófilo. Esta divulgação estava já para avançar no ano passado...

Mas têm sido divulgados factos agora, como a carrinha, a imagem dele...
A polícia alemã deveria divulgar as duas formas da carrinha, como ela seria sem as pinturas e como ela foi agora transportada para a Alemanha com figuras. Assim é que estaríamos a ser sérios.

A outra questão prende-se com a imagem do próprio suspeito. Há uma imagem que está a ser divulgada, mas não se pode mostrar a imagem de alguém passado uns anos. Mostrar imagens com 43 anos não é a mesma coisa que mostrar com 30 anos. Em 2006, que é o ano mais próximo do acontecimento, ele (Christian Brückner) tinha outro imagem, com um cabelo meio curto. Em 2007, há pessoas que afirmam que ele parecia um hippie com cabelo pelas costas. E aqui voltamos à questão do cabelo e dos depoimentos a seguir ao desaparecimento em que a amiga do casal diz que viu um homem com cabelo curto. O que se pergunta é porque se permite imagens e retratos robots que vão de encontro a determinado perfil de alguém que é parecido com o que foi dito nesse depoimento.

O que sabe hoje deste cidadão alemão era o que se sabia em 2007?
Não. Se nós soubéssemos o que hoje se sabe, teríamos de averiguar.

Na altura este nome apareceu?
Contaram-me que terá aparecido numa listagem com mais de uma centena de nomes.

Hoje, com tudo isto que se sabe, o que deveria ser feito?
Voltar ao ponto da investigação onde ela estava em setembro de 2007.

Amaral seems to be admitting that his team didn't take abduction seriously because it couldn't be proved there was an abduction
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2020, 09:30:54 AM
“I don't think a 'phone dump' was organised by the British police at all, unless you have evidence of that?”

You may be correct in that I do not have evidence that the British police organised a phone dump in 2007 … but then I do not have evidence that the Portuguese Police took any steps to organise a phone dump either.

What I do have evidence of is that in 2007 the only effort made by the Portuguese to check phone data was, according to the files, in relation to the McCanns and the Tapas seven.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MOBILE_PHONE_ANALYSIS.htm
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PHONE_TEXTS.htm

The present information regarding Brueckner’s phone was extrapolated from phone information from 2007 held by Scotland Yard which in my opinion could only have been obtained by cooperation with the Portuguese Prosecutors and the phone providers at the relevant time.

So it figures somewhere but in the myopia of the Amaral investigation only the unimportant family traffic was considered of interest.

Snip
Officers from the BKA, Germany's federal police, obtained the number for a mobile phone that Brueckner had in 2007, but it was only when they cross-referenced it with data compiled by Scotland Yard from phone masts around Praia da Luz that they could place the 43-year-old near the Ocean Club from where Madeleine was taken.

They then discovered his phone received a call in Praia da Luz from someone at 7.32pm.
The call lasted until 8.02pm and the person who called Brueckner has not yet been identified. Madeleine vanished between 9.10pm and 10pm that evening.

German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters revealed painstaking Anglo-German police work led to the huge breakthrough

Mr Wolters said: 'Brueckner's telephone number comes from our investigation, but British police have a data pool from 2007 from Praia da Luz of all mobile numbers [used in that area at the time], so we put our telephone number to the data of the British police – and it matched.
'So we think that our suspect was, on the day Madeleine was kidnapped in Praia da Luz, near the apartment.'

He declined to provide details of how the BKA had found Brueckner's mobile number in 2007.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418479/Christian-Brueckner-identified-suspect-McCann-case-Mets-call-log-breakthrough.html

If you read the links you provide, the British police had the telephone information thanks to the PJ obtaining it in May 2007;

Date: 09-05-2007

Service Information

To: The coordinator of the investigation, Goncalo Amaral

From: Inspector Ricardo Paiva


Subject: Request for the preservation of data relating to mobile telecommunications


As it of interest to the ongoing investigation NUIPC 201/07.0 GALGS which is investing the ABDUCTION of the English girl Madeleine McCann, we URGENTLY ask that a request is made to the competent authorities for the following:

- The telephone operators TMN, Vodaphone and Optimus be asked for the preservation and conservation in digital format (CD or DVD) of all the information relating to MOBILE PHONE TRAFFIC, including roaming calls, with an indication of the mobile phone numbers, date and time of the telephone conversations that took place on 2, 3 and 4th May 2007 with respect to the mobile phones that cover the following geographical locations:

Apartment:

N - 37,088863 // N37º 5' 19,91"
W - 8,730775...// W 8º 43' 50,79"

Tapas Restaurant

N - 37,088378 // N37º 5' 18,16"
W - 8,730979...// W 8º 43' 51,52"

Both locations are situated in the OC resort next to Rua Agostinho da Silva and Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins in P da L.

This inquiry aims to preserve information of relative importance that could in the future help the investigation to discover the truth of the facts.

I bring this to your attention

Inspector Ricardo Paiva
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MOBILE_PHONE_ANALYSIS.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 30, 2020, 09:44:52 AM
I don't think a coordinator gathered lists together or investigated the people on the list. If the PJ work like British police those lower down the chain of command do such jobs and report back if they find anything significant.

“I have been told by colleagues, who are retired like me, that they had come knocking on the door. That person was not at home,” Mr Amaral said in an interview on Portuguese TV on Sunday night.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-police-tried-to-quiz-suspect-in-2007-but-he-wasn-t-at-home-a9582266.html

Is that the extent of the verification?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 30, 2020, 09:55:08 AM
“I have been told by colleagues, who are retired like me, that they had come knocking on the door. That person was not at home,” Mr Amaral said in an interview on Portuguese TV on Sunday night.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-police-tried-to-quiz-suspect-in-2007-but-he-wasn-t-at-home-a9582266.html

Is that the extent of the verification?
I can't believe it.  But it must be true, Amaral said it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 30, 2020, 10:09:23 AM
The PJ seemingly did have mugshots of him on file as he was first extradited from Portugal to Germany in 1999 for molesting a 6-year-old in a playground in Germany back in 2004.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pictures-prove-portuguese-police-knew-22378521

He seems perfectly recognisable to me.

This evidently predates the diesel theft in 2006 when he admitted to the court in PT that he had had a prior conviction for sexual offences.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 30, 2020, 10:16:34 AM
If you read the links you provide, the British police had the telephone information thanks to the PJ obtaining it in May 2007;

Date: 09-05-2007

Service Information

To: The coordinator of the investigation, Goncalo Amaral

From: Inspector Ricardo Paiva


Subject: Request for the preservation of data relating to mobile telecommunications


As it of interest to the ongoing investigation NUIPC 201/07.0 GALGS which is investing the ABDUCTION of the English girl Madeleine McCann, we URGENTLY ask that a request is made to the competent authorities for the following:

- The telephone operators TMN, Vodaphone and Optimus be asked for the preservation and conservation in digital format (CD or DVD) of all the information relating to MOBILE PHONE TRAFFIC, including roaming calls, with an indication of the mobile phone numbers, date and time of the telephone conversations that took place on 2, 3 and 4th May 2007 with respect to the mobile phones that cover the following geographical locations:

Apartment:

N - 37,088863 // N37º 5' 19,91"
W - 8,730775...// W 8º 43' 50,79"

Tapas Restaurant

N - 37,088378 // N37º 5' 18,16"
W - 8,730979...// W 8º 43' 51,52"

Both locations are situated in the OC resort next to Rua Agostinho da Silva and Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins in P da L.

This inquiry aims to preserve information of relative importance that could in the future help the investigation to discover the truth of the facts.

I bring this to your attention

Inspector Ricardo Paiva
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MOBILE_PHONE_ANALYSIS.htm

I'll give credit to Amaral (who may well have organised it, unless it was the instructing magistrate) for at least securing phone information.

However, the analysts only seem to have been instructed to go through calls related to the T9 (plus M & M to an extent).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 30, 2020, 10:17:19 AM
The PJ seemingly did have mugshots of him on file as he was first extradited from Portugal to Germany in 1999 for molesting a 6-year-old in a playground in Germany back in 2004.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pictures-prove-portuguese-police-knew-22378521

He seems perfectly recognisable to me.

This evidently predates the diesel theft in 2006 when he admitted to the court in PT that he had had a prior conviction for sexual offences.
Did he always spell his surname the same way? 

Brueckner

Brückner

Bruckner

Spelling errors confound records.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 30, 2020, 10:37:54 AM
AFAIK,  "ue" can replace the German umlaut "ü" - back in pre-historic times a decade or two ago, keyboards didn't necessarily have the wide variety of accents that we now take for granted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2020, 11:54:28 AM
I don't think a coordinator gathered lists together or investigated the people on the list. If the PJ work like British police those lower down the chain of command do such jobs and report back if they find anything significant.

I would have thought a coordinator would coordinate.  Elementary ... and precisely what is being done in the instances of other missing children ...

Snip
A spokesman for police in The Hague confirmed that after announcing their intention to exchange information they have now presented the case and 'were in talks'.

He said: 'Presenting the case means that we look if there are any similarities between the cases. So we look for clues that connect them.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8575193/German-police-refuse-reveal-Madeleine-McCann-search.html


Did Amaral rule out all the local paedophiles ... apparently not.
Did Amaral carry out checks on the local burglars as Scotland Yard did in 2014?
Did Amaral go beyond checking the McCann phone records as Scotland Yard did to pin point the location of local burglars; as the PJ apparently did in 2014 with regard to Euclides Monteiro; and as the Germans very most certainly did in relation to Brueckner.
Did Amaral give any thoughts to the intruder who broke into dwellings to assault little girls sometimes leaving with a trophy sometimes not.

Amaral didn't have to physically go out and collect evidence ~ everybody knows that.  Amaral's job was to collate what evidence there was not cherry pick the bits he liked and to rubbish the bits he didn't. 

In my opinion a prime example of Amaral's incompetence as a coordinator was his treatment of Jane Janner's evidence and his ridiculing of her at the time ... a practice which he continues even today despite the knowledge that his gross incompetence is currently having a spotlight shone on it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 30, 2020, 12:02:53 PM
I see Snr Amaral was on telly via satellite link last night again in some unpronounceable former Soviet enclave.
He'll have that new sprawling villa paid off in no time, what with all of these daily talking head appearances das bizzies have generated and his new bestseller almost ready for release.
Go ed Gonzo lad.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2020, 12:03:26 PM
If you read the links you provide, the British police had the telephone information thanks to the PJ obtaining it in May 2007;

Date: 09-05-2007

Service Information

To: The coordinator of the investigation, Goncalo Amaral

From: Inspector Ricardo Paiva


Subject: Request for the preservation of data relating to mobile telecommunications


As it of interest to the ongoing investigation NUIPC 201/07.0 GALGS which is investing the ABDUCTION of the English girl Madeleine McCann, we URGENTLY ask that a request is made to the competent authorities for the following:

- The telephone operators TMN, Vodaphone and Optimus be asked for the preservation and conservation in digital format (CD or DVD) of all the information relating to MOBILE PHONE TRAFFIC, including roaming calls, with an indication of the mobile phone numbers, date and time of the telephone conversations that took place on 2, 3 and 4th May 2007 with respect to the mobile phones that cover the following geographical locations:

Apartment:

N - 37,088863 // N37º 5' 19,91"
W - 8,730775...// W 8º 43' 50,79"

Tapas Restaurant

N - 37,088378 // N37º 5' 18,16"
W - 8,730979...// W 8º 43' 51,52"

Both locations are situated in the OC resort next to Rua Agostinho da Silva and Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins in P da L.

This inquiry aims to preserve information of relative importance that could in the future help the investigation to discover the truth of the facts.

I bring this to your attention

Inspector Ricardo Paiva
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MOBILE_PHONE_ANALYSIS.htm

Did you read the link?

My understanding is the request was made only in relation to the McCanns and their friends ... what is your interpretation?

Very certainly the German source for the phone dump information covering everyone who used a phone in the environs of Luz around the time Madeleine vanished was Scotland Yard and not the Policia Judiciaria.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2020, 12:25:58 PM
I would have thought a coordinator would coordinate.  Elementary ... and precisely what is being done in the instances of other missing children ...

Snip
A spokesman for police in The Hague confirmed that after announcing their intention to exchange information they have now presented the case and 'were in talks'.

He said: 'Presenting the case means that we look if there are any similarities between the cases. So we look for clues that connect them.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8575193/German-police-refuse-reveal-Madeleine-McCann-search.html


Did Amaral rule out all the local paedophiles ... apparently not.
Did Amaral carry out checks on the local burglars as Scotland Yard did in 2014?
Did Amaral go beyond checking the McCann phone records as Scotland Yard did to pin point the location of local burglars; as the PJ apparently did in 2014 with regard to Euclides Monteiro; and as the Germans very most certainly did in relation to Brueckner.
Did Amaral give any thoughts to the intruder who broke into dwellings to assault little girls sometimes leaving with a trophy sometimes not.

Amaral didn't have to physically go out and collect evidence ~ everybody knows that.  Amaral's job was to collate what evidence there was not cherry pick the bits he liked and to rubbish the bits he didn't. 

In my opinion a prime example of Amaral's incompetence as a coordinator was his treatment of Jane Janner's evidence and his ridiculing of her at the time ... a practice which he continues even today despite the knowledge that his gross incompetence is currently having a spotlight shone on it.

In my opinion you're obsessed with Amaral. You have no idea what was or wasn't done because there's no evidence. The evidence was withheld;

Appendix VI 1 – Information/Lists of Suspects of Sexual Crimes – where you will find a detailed reviews, from the perspective of the possibility of encountering correlations with suspects with sexual motives;

Appendix VI 2 – Diligences and Exploration of Information related to the aforementioned – in which, in conformity with that already expressed and in order to provide a better consultation, were gathered the information collected about residents in the surrounding areas – temporary and permanent – as well as a listing of local crime (break-ins and others) and crimes of a sexual nature. The information provided came to this Police by individual
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 30, 2020, 12:53:17 PM
I would have thought a coordinator would coordinate.  Elementary ... and precisely what is being done in the instances of other missing children ...

Snip
A spokesman for police in The Hague confirmed that after announcing their intention to exchange information they have now presented the case and 'were in talks'.

He said: 'Presenting the case means that we look if there are any similarities between the cases. So we look for clues that connect them.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8575193/German-police-refuse-reveal-Madeleine-McCann-search.html


Did Amaral rule out all the local paedophiles ... apparently not.
Did Amaral carry out checks on the local burglars as Scotland Yard did in 2014?
Did Amaral go beyond checking the McCann phone records as Scotland Yard did to pin point the location of local burglars; as the PJ apparently did in 2014 with regard to Euclides Monteiro; and as the Germans very most certainly did in relation to Brueckner.
Did Amaral give any thoughts to the intruder who broke into dwellings to assault little girls sometimes leaving with a trophy sometimes not.

Amaral didn't have to physically go out and collect evidence ~ everybody knows that.  Amaral's job was to collate what evidence there was not cherry pick the bits he liked and to rubbish the bits he didn't. 

In my opinion a prime example of Amaral's incompetence as a coordinator was his treatment of Jane Janner's evidence and his ridiculing of her at the time ... a practice which he continues even today despite the knowledge that his gross incompetence is currently having a spotlight shone on it.


In my opinion a prime example of Amaral's incompetence as a coordinator was his treatment of Jane Janner's evidence and his ridiculing of her at the time ... a practice which he continues even today despite the knowledge that his gross incompetence is currently having a spotlight shone on it.

Even gmc didn't see JT the sighting was conveniently accounted for ...it was Totman wasn't it.

You would have thought that the mccs themselves would've wanted a reconstruction just to see where everyone was in the group...you would trust no one if the abduction had of been real FGS. imo

Why you keep blaming GA for everything ...when he didn't fail he was got rid of because he dared to mouth off against the UK police interfering.

Now what have you got ...it seems like 3 different police forces all following different enquires

Thats what you call incompetent
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2020, 12:53:46 PM
In my opinion you're obsessed with Amaral. You have no idea what was or wasn't done because there's no evidence. The evidence was withheld;

Appendix VI 1 – Information/Lists of Suspects of Sexual Crimes – where you will find a detailed reviews, from the perspective of the possibility of encountering correlations with suspects with sexual motives;

Appendix VI 2 – Diligences and Exploration of Information related to the aforementioned – in which, in conformity with that already expressed and in order to provide a better consultation, were gathered the information collected about residents in the surrounding areas – temporary and permanent – as well as a listing of local crime (break-ins and others) and crimes of a sexual nature. The information provided came to this Police by individual
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

How terribly rude and inappropriate of you to suggest I or any other member is "obsessed" ... it may have escaped your notice that the title of this thread is quite simply stated as ..."Goncalo Amaral"


Amaral is a man to whom the normal rules of professional conduct do not apply.  You can be sure if Amaral wanted anything to appear in the public domain he would see to it.

Amaral did write a book.
Amaral did perform in a documentary of the book.
Amaral has made a lucrative career out of his abject mishandling of Madeleine McCann's case.
Amaral's behind hasn't been separated from one studio chair or another for over thirteen years as he pontificates on destroying Kate and Gerry McCann in any which way he possibly can.

Not forgetting that Amaral was the original mouthpiece for releasing the information which led to the identification of Bruekner.

Amaral's indiscretions know no bounds, in my opinion if Amaral wanted information in the public domain the fact of it being 'witheld' would not get in his way or deter him in the slightest.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2020, 12:57:48 PM

In my opinion a prime example of Amaral's incompetence as a coordinator was his treatment of Jane Janner's evidence and his ridiculing of her at the time ... a practice which he continues even today despite the knowledge that his gross incompetence is currently having a spotlight shone on it.

Even gmc didn't see JT the sighting was conveniently accounted for ...it was Totman wasn't it.

You would have thought that the mccs themselves would've wanted a reconstruction just to see where everyone was in the group...you would trust no one if the abduction had of been real FGS. imo

Why you keep blaming GA for everything ...when he didn't fail he was got rid of because he dared to mouth off against the UK police interfering.

Now what have you got ...it seems like 3 different police forces all following different enquires

Thats what you call incompetent

The McCanns did indeed want a reconstruction.

Amaral vetoed one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2020, 01:05:20 PM
How terribly rude and inappropriate of you to suggest I or any other member is "obsessed" ... it may have escaped your notice that the title of this thread is quite simply stated as ..."Goncalo Amaral"


Amaral is a man to whom the normal rules of professional conduct do not apply.  You can be sure if Amaral wanted anything to appear in the public domain he would see to it.

Amaral did write a book.
Amaral did perform in a documentary of the book.
Amaral has made a lucrative career out of his abject mishandling of Madeleine McCann's case.
Amaral's behind hasn't been separated from one studio chair or another for over thirteen years as he pontificates on destroying Kate and Gerry McCann in any which way he possibly can.

Not forgetting that Amaral was the original mouthpiece for releasing the information which led to the identification of Bruekner.

Amaral's indiscretions know no bounds, in my opinion if Amaral wanted information in the public domain the fact of it being 'witheld' would not get in his way or deter him in the slightest.

You still have no evidence to confirm your accusations about his 'failings' where sex offenders were concerned.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2020, 01:16:04 PM
You still have no evidence to confirm your accusations about his 'failings' where sex offenders were concerned.

                                 Ermmm ... Christian Brueckner ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 30, 2020, 01:21:33 PM
The McCanns did indeed want a reconstruction.

Amaral vetoed one.

If they had of wanted one they would have got one...IMO not having one seemed more convenient

Or else why did they not do when they could..seems no one wanted to return ..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2020, 01:30:13 PM
The McCanns did indeed want a reconstruction.

Amaral vetoed one.

Amaral denies vetoing a reconstruction - see TOTL page 39.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 30, 2020, 02:32:25 PM
Amaral denies vetoing a reconstruction - see TOTL page 39.

That's an unsupported statement...there are a few things in the book that aren't true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 30, 2020, 03:10:24 PM
That's an unsupported statement...there are a few things in the book that aren't true


IYO  ....but he still maintainsthere was no abduction all these years later.



4. The witness statements raise a great number of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions. Jane Tanner's witness statement in favour of the theory of abduction is probably false: little by little it has lost all credibility because of successive modifications introduced by Jane, modifications that have ended up invalidating it.

5. The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found.

The conclusions my team and I have arrived at are the following:

1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;

2. There was simulation of abduction.

3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their daughter's body.

4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;

5. The evidence proves the parents' negligence concerning the care and safety of the children.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 30, 2020, 03:11:32 PM
Did he always spell his surname the same way? 

Brueckner

Brückner

Bruckner

Spelling errors confound records.

I do come on.  Most of us can't be asked.  But I doubt that this is a problem.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 30, 2020, 03:21:39 PM

IYO  ....but he still maintainsthere was no abduction all these years later.



4. The witness statements raise a great number of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions. Jane Tanner's witness statement in favour of the theory of abduction is probably false: little by little it has lost all credibility because of successive modifications introduced by Jane, modifications that have ended up invalidating it.

5. The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found.

The conclusions my team and I have arrived at are the following:

1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;

2. There was simulation of abduction.

3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their daughter's body.

4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;

5. The evidence proves the parents' negligence concerning the care and safety of the children.


He claims the dogs confirm the presence of a body...he was wrong... they don't...that's an absolute fact

You have provided the cite to show he was wrong ..and why he was wrong...and you still can't see it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 30, 2020, 03:38:49 PM
He claims the dogs confirm the presence of a body...he was wrong... they don't...that's an absolute fact

You have provided the cite to show he was wrong ..and why he was wrong...and you still can't see it

What you don't know is he was wrong ..........there is no proof the abduction happened. and the mccs was there.

Wolters who you have so much faith after nearly 2 months cannot prove CB was there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2020, 03:39:56 PM
Did you read the link?

My understanding is the request was made only in relation to the McCanns and their friends ... what is your interpretation?

Very certainly the German source for the phone dump information covering everyone who used a phone in the environs of Luz around the time Madeleine vanished was Scotland Yard and not the Policia Judiciaria.

It says "of all the information relating to MOBILE PHONE TRAFFIC, including roaming calls, with an indication of the mobile phone numbers, date and time of the telephone conversations that took place on 2, 3 and 4th May 2007 with respect to the mobile phones that cover the following geographical locations"

The information was sent to Lisbon PJ Sector de Analise for analysis. They said;

Throughout our work we were frequently contacted by colleagues that were on the field, in the attempt to verify if a certain mobile phone number had activated any antenna, of the 3 national operators, that serve Praia da Luz on any of the 3 days that we have registers for.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANALYSIS-11-VOLUMES.htm

Where did you think OG got the information from?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 30, 2020, 03:44:32 PM
What you don't know is he was wrong ..........there is no proof the abduction happened. and the mccs was there.

Wolters who you have so much faith after nearly 2 months cannot prove CB was there.

I know....100% that his claim that the alerts confirmed a body is false.....you seem blind to that FACT....as was amaral and his team
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 30, 2020, 04:22:37 PM
I know....100% that his claim that the alerts confirmed a body is false.....you seem blind to that FACT....as was amaral and his team

Aw come on D you know there was a lot more to it than just the dogs
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 30, 2020, 04:33:08 PM
Aw come on D you know there was a lot more to it than just the dogs

None of which verifies what you appear to think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 30, 2020, 04:39:05 PM
Aw come on D you know there was a lot more to it than just the dogs

Amarals claim re the dogs was false.... do you realise that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 30, 2020, 04:43:38 PM
None of which verifies what you appear to think.

Strong word verify ...is there anything verified in this case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 30, 2020, 04:50:20 PM
It says "of all the information relating to MOBILE PHONE TRAFFIC, including roaming calls, with an indication of the mobile phone numbers, date and time of the telephone conversations that took place on 2, 3 and 4th May 2007 with respect to the mobile phones that cover the following geographical locations"

The information was sent to Lisbon PJ Sector de Analise for analysis. They said;

Throughout our work we were frequently contacted by colleagues that were on the field, in the attempt to verify if a certain mobile phone number had activated any antenna, of the 3 national operators, that serve Praia da Luz on any of the 3 days that we have registers for.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANALYSIS-11-VOLUMES.htm

Where did you think OG got the information from?

Rowley 2017:So that phone data is always something we will look at and we wouldn’t have had it available if
the Portuguese had not got hold of it at the time so we need to be careful about criticism. But we had
the data available and we worked with the Portuguese and that was part of the background to do with
phone data and various sightings. There was enough there to say, not to prove the case, but there
was something worth looking at in more detail and that’s what we did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2020, 05:01:05 PM
Rowley 2017:So that phone data is always something we will look at and we wouldn’t have had it available if
the Portuguese had not got hold of it at the time so we need to be careful about criticism. But we had
the data available and we worked with the Portuguese and that was part of the background to do with
phone data and various sightings. There was enough there to say, not to prove the case, but there
was something worth looking at in more detail and that’s what we did.

Heriberto knew about them in 2013;

The 74,104 phone calls were the recorded ones activating BTS or retrasmitting antennas at Praia da Luz, on 2, 3 and 4, May, 2007, by mobile phones of the three Portuguese companies: Optimus, TMN and Vodafone.

The following table shows the distribution of the calls by day and by phone company (click to enlarge). Data were obtained from the Polícia Judiciária files on the case (2007-2008).
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-madeleine-mccanns-abduction-74104.html#more

So the only reason OG and the Germans have those phone records to consult is because the PJ obtained them for future feference.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 30, 2020, 05:24:21 PM
Amarals claim re the dogs was false.... do you realise that.

No ..as you know there was something just nothing yet to back it up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 30, 2020, 05:28:16 PM
No ..as you know there was something just nothing yet to back it up.

You dont seem to understand...amaral claimed the alerts and dna confirmed a body...the did not ...he was wrong....not my opinion...its fact
He misunderstood the evidence...it seems they all did. That is not opinion...its fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 30, 2020, 05:38:25 PM
You dont seem to understand...amaral claimed the alerts and dna confirmed a body...the did not ...he was wrong....not my opinion...its fact
He misunderstood the evidence...it seems they all did. That is not opinion...its fact

I should give it up if I was you.
 
However, how's about a lengthy discussion on  "If I was you."  or,  "If I were you."  I actually have a problem with this, so any help will be  welcome.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 30, 2020, 05:46:26 PM
I should give it up if I was you.
 
However, how's about a lengthy discussion on  "If I was you."  or,  "If I were you."  I actually have a problem with this, so any help will be  welcome.

38,000+ posts its a bit late for him to give in.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 30, 2020, 05:53:50 PM
38,000+ posts its a bit late for him to give in.

So you don't know the correct English.  There's a surprise.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 30, 2020, 05:55:58 PM
So you don't know the correct English.  There's a surprise.

Who cares.Find some one who does.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 30, 2020, 05:59:42 PM
I should give it up if I was you.
 
However, how's about a lengthy discussion on  "If I was you."  or,  "If I were you."  I actually have a problem with this, so any help will be  welcome.

I've noticed but  kept diplomatically quiet
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2020, 06:11:15 PM
Heriberto knew about them in 2013;

The 74,104 phone calls were the recorded ones activating BTS or retrasmitting antennas at Praia da Luz, on 2, 3 and 4, May, 2007, by mobile phones of the three Portuguese companies: Optimus, TMN and Vodafone.

The following table shows the distribution of the calls by day and by phone company (click to enlarge). Data were obtained from the Polícia Judiciária files on the case (2007-2008).
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-madeleine-mccanns-abduction-74104.html#more

So the only reason OG and the Germans have those phone records to consult is because the PJ obtained them for future feference.

Having apparently gone to that bother ... don't you think it was remiss of them at the time not to analyse the phone data beyond the phones of the McCanns and their friends ~ Murat and his friends ~ one or two Ocean Club employees whose statements caused concern?

The information the Germans used shared by Scotland Yard was all there in Portuguese hands back in 2007 ... a little action such as that expended on on Madeleine's parents might have gone a very long way.

Snip
Law enforcement agencies in 30 other countries - most of them in Europe - have also been asked for their assistance, principally to trace people thought to have been in Praia da Luz at the time.

Speaking to the BBC's Today programme, Peter Sommer, an expert on cyber security, said the "multi-jurisdictional nature" of the case, which would involve mobile phone companies in different countries - and the gap in time - could make it harder to track people down.

But he said "cell site data" was routinely used in most criminal court cases in the UK.

Mr Gamble said the EU data retention directive, which compels telephone companies to retain call and internet records for a period of time, was at an "immature stage" in 2007.

But he said it appeared the data "wasn't properly or appropriately interrogated," at the time.

In UK investigations, he would expect the data to have been examined almost immediately, he said, but the "complex nature and geography" had made it more difficult.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24386130
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 30, 2020, 06:14:34 PM
Who cares.Find some one who does.

That is what I was trying to do.  Even I am not omnipotent.  Although you could well wonder.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 30, 2020, 06:18:31 PM
I've noticed but  kept diplomatically quiet

So which is it?  I don't care which way or the other.  I am a natural ignoramus.  Thick as two short planks is me.  And way too late now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on July 30, 2020, 06:27:32 PM
You dont seem to understand...amaral claimed the alerts and dna confirmed a body...the did not ...he was wrong....not my opinion...its fact
He misunderstood the evidence...it seems they all did. That is not opinion...its fact

What you don't understand is ......


Martin Grime, British Police (now FBI) dog handler

"The dog's behaviour for these alerts led me to the following opinions. The first alert was given with the dog’s head in the air without a positive area being identified. This is the alert given by him when there is no tangible evidence to be located [i.e. a physical corpse], only the remaining scent."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2020, 06:33:09 PM
Having apparently gone to that bother ... don't you think it was remiss of them at the time not to analyse the phone data beyond the phones of the McCanns and their friends ~ Murat and his friends ~ one or two Ocean Club employees whose statements caused concern?

The information the Germans used shared by Scotland Yard was all there in Portuguese hands back in 2007 ... a little action such as that expended on on Madeleine's parents might have gone a very long way.

Snip
Law enforcement agencies in 30 other countries - most of them in Europe - have also been asked for their assistance, principally to trace people thought to have been in Praia da Luz at the time.

Speaking to the BBC's Today programme, Peter Sommer, an expert on cyber security, said the "multi-jurisdictional nature" of the case, which would involve mobile phone companies in different countries - and the gap in time - could make it harder to track people down.

But he said "cell site data" was routinely used in most criminal court cases in the UK.

Mr Gamble said the EU data retention directive, which compels telephone companies to retain call and internet records for a period of time, was at an "immature stage" in 2007.

But he said it appeared the data "wasn't properly or appropriately interrogated," at the time.

In UK investigations, he would expect the data to have been examined almost immediately, he said, but the "complex nature and geography" had made it more difficult.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24386130

Who are you blaming now? I don't suppose Amaral was in charge of the analysts in Lisbon, was he? Do we need another thread to criticise the PJ as a whole?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 30, 2020, 06:40:00 PM
What you don't understand is ......


Martin Grime, British Police (now FBI) dog handler

"The dog's behaviour for these alerts led me to the following opinions. The first alert was given with the dog’s head in the air without a positive area being identified. This is the alert given by him when there is no tangible evidence to be located [i.e. a physical corpse], only the remaining scent."


I understand everything about the dogs and the alerts and if you think that sentence from Grime confirms the alerts you are totally misguided regarding them...again thats not my opinion its fact.

Another fact is that in Harrisons report he tells how grime explained to the PJ the alerts had no evidential value without confirmation...the PJ simply ignored this.

I've always said that sceptics do not understand the alerts and you are proving me right. The alerts do not confirm the past presence of a body...FACT. ....as amaral claimed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2020, 09:24:27 PM
Who are you blaming now? I don't suppose Amaral was in charge of the analysts in Lisbon, was he? Do we need another thread to criticise the PJ as a whole?

The importance of using vital phone evidence to progress Madeleine's case was recognised.  Unfortunately it was used inappropriately and squandered when it was focused only on Amaral's chief suspects to the exclusion of all else.

If anything has emphasised how ill advised that was it is the present German investigation into their chief suspect whose phone was in the cell dump, whose details were in Portuguese files complete with his photograph and who apparently had not hung around Luz to be answering police questions ... and nobody wondered why.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2020, 10:11:59 PM
The importance of using vital phone evidence to progress Madeleine's case was recognised.  Unfortunately it was used inappropriately and squandered when it was focused only on Amaral's chief suspects to the exclusion of all else.

If anything has emphasised how ill advised that was it is the present German investigation into their chief suspect whose phone was in the cell dump, whose details were in Portuguese files complete with his photograph and who apparently had not hung around Luz to be answering police questions ... and nobody wondered why.

It's very fair of you to acknowledge that you have been blaming Amaral and praising Operation Grange unfairly for years. Now you know that the first investigation acted properly and swiftly to gather information which might be needed as the investigation progressed.

What is meant by CB's details being 'in the Portuguese files'? Was that the Public Prosecutor's files, the PJ files, the GNR files or what?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 30, 2020, 10:17:22 PM
It's very fair of you to acknowledge that you have been blaming Amaral and praising Operation Grange unfairly for years. Now you know that the first investigation acted properly and swiftly to gather information which might be needed as the investigation progressed.

What is meant by CB's details being 'in the Portuguese files'? Was that the Public Prosecutor's files, the PJ files, the GNR files or what?

I don't see anything unfair. Amaral and his team thought the dog alerts confirmed taht  abody had been in teh apartment...he was wrong ..they didnt. that took the investigation down a one way street
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 30, 2020, 10:24:24 PM
I don't see anything unfair. Amaral and his team thought the dog alerts confirmed taht  abody had been in teh apartment...he was wrong ..they didnt. that took the investigation down a one way street

Is Rua da Escola only one way?

It only points one way for me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2020, 11:00:57 PM
It's very fair of you to acknowledge that you have been blaming Amaral and praising Operation Grange unfairly for years. Now you know that the first investigation acted properly and swiftly to gather information which might be needed as the investigation progressed.

What is meant by CB's details being 'in the Portuguese files'? Was that the Public Prosecutor's files, the PJ files, the GNR files or what?

The big problem you have with that is that Amaral really didn't have a clue about how to use information from a cell dump as is amply demonstrated by his amateurish misuse as recorded in the files.

Don't public agencies in Portugal do joined up writing when investigating serious crime ... and if the coordinator of a serious crime doesn't bother to enquire what is it a coordinator actually does with his time?
That is apart from deciding he has them 'solved' before getting out of bed the morning after hearing about it.

In 2020 the German initiative and the methods used which resulted in finding a realistic suspect worthy of being thoroughly checked out have been in stark contrast to events of 2007.
The use of information hiding in plain sight instead of being used to enable a viable line of inquiry wasn't even looked for in 2007. 
No amount of denial is going to diminish the contrast between how the information was put to good use by the Germans but neglected by the Amaral investigation which never deviated from the chosen path of blaming the parents, as Amaral continues to do even to this day.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 31, 2020, 12:42:28 AM
 8((()*/
How terribly rude and inappropriate of you to suggest I or any other member is "obsessed" ... it may have escaped your notice that the title of this thread is quite simply stated as ..."Goncalo Amaral"


Amaral is a man to whom the normal rules of professional conduct do not apply.  You can be sure if Amaral wanted anything to appear in the public domain he would see to it.

Amaral did write a book.
Amaral did perform in a documentary of the book.
Amaral has made a lucrative career out of his abject mishandling of Madeleine McCann's case.
Amaral's behind hasn't been separated from one studio chair or another for over thirteen years as he pontificates on destroying Kate and Gerry McCann in any which way he possibly can.

Not forgetting that Amaral was the original mouthpiece for releasing the information which led to the identification of Bruekner.

Amaral's indiscretions know no bounds, in my opinion if Amaral wanted information in the public domain the fact of it being 'witheld' would not get in his way or deter him in the slightest.

Well said, Brie.

Add to that:

The fact that

1)  His office under his command, changed the original statement by the police in Porto by the Taxi driver at Porto Campanha Railway station, which is in Porto itself to another Railway station in Vila Nova de Gaia.   This named Taxi driver picked the man up with the little girl being carried 'asleep', from the one station to another address which was impossible.  I walked the street to check it out.  So it was disinformation.  Why ?

2)  His office then embellished this second statement in several ways which were not true.  I wonder why he did that>?  And said to refer to Processos 807-808 and not the original which Amaral  demoted to Processos 809

3)  His office under his command played down several sightings including 29 in Malta, many in interesting, to me, areas.

Unfinished, so many more things, but this will do for starters.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 31, 2020, 01:02:17 AM
 ^*&&
Having apparently gone to that bother ... don't you think it was remiss of them at the time not to analyse the phone data beyond the phones of the McCanns and their friends ~ Murat and his friends ~ one or two Ocean Club employees whose statements caused concern?

The information the Germans used shared by Scotland Yard was all there in Portuguese hands back in 2007 ... a little action such as that expended on on Madeleine's parents might have gone a very long way.

Snip
Law enforcement agencies in 30 other countries - most of them in Europe - have also been asked for their assistance, principally to trace people thought to have been in Praia da Luz at the time.

Speaking to the BBC's Today programme, Peter Sommer, an expert on cyber security, said the "multi-jurisdictional nature" of the case, which would involve mobile phone companies in different countries - and the gap in time - could make it harder to track people down.

But he said "cell site data" was routinely used in most criminal court cases in the UK.

Mr Gamble said the EU data retention directive, which compels telephone companies to retain call and internet records for a period of time, was at an "immature stage" in 2007.

But he said it appeared the data "wasn't properly or appropriately interrogated," at the time.

In UK investigations, he would expect the data to have been examined almost immediately, he said, but the "complex nature and geography" had made it more difficult.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24386130

Maybe, Amaral was so stuck on The Mccanns that he didn't want to investigate the phone calls?

Maybe hr thought that he could wrap the case up as he and Cristovao had with The Joana Cipriano case?

Maybe, there was some reason that we don't know about that he didn't want to look at them deeply.  Maybe someone he knew had his telephone number recorded on them and he didn't want that publicised? 

Dunno. 


Anyone else got any ideas why he didn't bother to investigate them ?  He seemed to have a hard working and willing group of PJ working for him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 31, 2020, 01:09:10 AM
So which is it?  I don't care which way or the other.  I am a natural ignoramus.  Thick as two short planks is me.  And way too late now.

My Dad spoke perfect English.  He always said , "If I were you" as far as I can remember


Now, Elli, can you help me with apostrophys and spelling, pls.     (&^&



You are no ignoramus.  What you may possibly lack in paper qualifications, you more than make up for with an impressive natural intellect and a scorching sense of humour.

Well done, youse.

What would we do without you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 31, 2020, 01:29:39 AM
Is Rua da Escola only one way?

It only points one way for me.

Have looked at GE and I think it is Spammy.  The top part after the staff quarters definitely is with a no entry sign … and somewhere near where the front group of the Smiths stood there is a big black arrow, like you might see when you come out of a public car park onto a one way street in the UK and yet I cannot see a no entry sign where Rua d'Escola meets the main road

The bottom part is quite narrow with buildings jutting out into what road there is, and I think it was paved IIRC.
If it were two way, I wouldn't like to drive it quite frankly..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2020, 07:46:23 AM
So you don't know the correct English.  There's a surprise.

If I were there, I would go nuts (hypothetical - you aren't actually there).

If I had been there, I would have gone nuts (hypothesis about an event in the past, but you weren't there.

I was there, I went nuts (fact).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 31, 2020, 08:03:54 AM
If I were there, I would go nuts (hypothetical - you aren't actually there).

If I had been there, I would have gone nuts (hypothesis about an event in the past, but you weren't there.

I was there, I went nuts (fact).

I think its the ...we was there....thats the problem instead of we were there
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2020, 09:06:50 AM
Gonçalo Amaral shows robot portrait of suspect in Maddie case in 2007 that belies German version

June 26, 2020

(https://cdn1.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_370x209$2020_06_27_11_06_53_952728.jpg)
Gonçalo Amaral released a photomontage of what Christian Brueckner had at the time of Maddie's disappearance.

For Gonçalo Amaral, a former inspector of the Judiciary Police, Christian Brueckner is the "almost perfect suspect" in the case of Maddie McCann. In an interview with Jornal do Centro https://www.jornaldocentro.pt/aquitv/video/70851/espaco-atualidade-com-goncalo-amaral Amaral released an image of the German with long hair that he claims corresponds to the image that he would have at the time of Maddie's disappearance.

The ex-PJ pointed out what he considers failures of the English and German police in conducting the process. One of the inconsistencies pointed out is related to the images released by the German, which correspond to his current image and not to the one he had 13 years ago, when the crime occurred.

"I cannot say that someone recognizes someone by an image of the person who is already a few years old. People change (...) Showing images of the person at 43 years of age is not the same thing as showing the person at 30" , said, during the interview.

The former coordinator of the Portimão PJ points out that the robot portraits released by the authorities at the time of the crime show a suspect with short hair, a fact that appears to be innocent for Christian Bruecker, who in 2007 would have long hair behind his back.

"In 2007 there are people who claim that his figure is not with short hair. He looked like a hippie and wore long hair behind his back. And the police know that," he also shoots.

To consolidate his statements, Gonçalo Amaral himself decided to present a reconstruction of what the German would look like in the year that Maddie disappeared. Using an image of Brueckner in 2006, a year before Maddie's disappearance, and using an image manipulation program, the former PJ presented a photomontage of the suspect with long hair.

Amaral concludes his theory with the fact that most of the witnesses in the case stated that the suspect was similar to Madeleine McCann's father, allegations corroborated by the English police. "I wonder where this individual resembles Mr. Gerard McCann", he asks.

The former PJ devalues ​​the new evidence linking Christian Brueckner to the investigation of the disappearance of the English girl and asks for more concrete evidence to consolidate a "serious investigation".

https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-mostra-retrato-robo-de-suspeito-do-suspeito-do-caso-maddie-em-2007-que-desmente-versao-alema


He just can't help himself, can he?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 09:09:08 AM
That's 6 week old news.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2020, 09:16:24 AM
The big problem you have with that is that Amaral really didn't have a clue about how to use information from a cell dump as is amply demonstrated by his amateurish misuse as recorded in the files.

Don't public agencies in Portugal do joined up writing when investigating serious crime ... and if the coordinator of a serious crime doesn't bother to enquire what is it a coordinator actually does with his time?
That is apart from deciding he has them 'solved' before getting out of bed the morning after hearing about it.

In 2020 the German initiative and the methods used which resulted in finding a realistic suspect worthy of being thoroughly checked out have been in stark contrast to events of 2007.
The use of information hiding in plain sight instead of being used to enable a viable line of inquiry wasn't even looked for in 2007. 
No amount of denial is going to diminish the contrast between how the information was put to good use by the Germans but neglected by the Amaral investigation which never deviated from the chosen path of blaming the parents, as Amaral continues to do even to this day.

If, as you frequently proclaim, Amaral's mind was made up immediately, why did the PJ investigate Murat so thoroughly?

If, as you have repeatedly claimed, OG are so professional and well trained, what have they been doing with those 7,000 phone calls for nine years?

As I understand it CB was first mentioned in 2013, but not investigated. What were OG doing?

It seems to me that getting that phone number allegedly belonging to CB was the German's lucky break. When it was checked with the phone info it was active on 3rd May in the vicinity.

That's what the info was for, imo, to be available as needed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 31, 2020, 09:21:31 AM
If, as you frequently proclaim, Amaral's mind was made up immediately, why did the PJ investigate Murat so thoroughly?

If, as you have repeatedly claimed, OG are so professional and well trained, what have they been doing with those 7,000 phone calls for nine years?

As I understand it CB was first mentioned in 2013, but not investigated. What were OG doing?

It seems to me that getting that phone number allegedly belonging to CB was the German's lucky break. When it was checked with the phone info it was active on 3rd May in the vicinity.

That's what the info was for, imo, to be available as needed.

In all likelihood its looking like the phone was a false dawn.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 31, 2020, 09:22:06 AM
That's 6 week old news.

Obsession know no bounds.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on July 31, 2020, 09:24:34 AM
Obsession know no bounds.



some need old news to  cling too dont they
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 09:26:06 AM
Obsession know no bounds.
...and I believe he was showing the actual photos of the van that they investigated at the time, as opposed to the totally inaccurate ones das bizzies showed to the planet.
But that's OK, let's just go with the wrong photos and hope for an accurate response anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 31, 2020, 09:31:08 AM


some need old news to  cling too dont they

Its the new news I'm interested in. It seems Breukner really came to the attention of the investigators after kate and Gerry made an appeal on german TV  around the ten year anniversary
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 09:37:50 AM
Its the new news I'm interested in. It seems Breukner really came to the attention of the investigators after kate and Gerry made an appeal on german TV  around the ten year anniversary
I like that caveat - German police.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
...and I believe he was showing the actual photos of the van that they investigated at the time, as opposed to the totally inaccurate ones das bizzies showed to the planet.
But that's OK, let's just go with the wrong photos and hope for an accurate response anyway.

I'm wondering if he's got 'mixed up' with a camper belonging to some "hippie" or other.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2020, 10:28:43 AM
Its the new news I'm interested in. It seems Breukner really came to the attention of the investigators after kate and Gerry made an appeal on german TV  around the ten year anniversary

So much information it's difficult sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Detectives identified the convicted sex offender as a key suspect in 2013, but their intel was ignored by the country’s Federal Criminal Office, according to magazine Der Spiegel.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/06/german-authorities-ignored-warnings-about-madeleine-mccann-suspect-2013-12814822/?ito=cbshare

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 11:03:01 AM
I'm wondering if he's got 'mixed up' with a camper belonging to some "hippie" or other.
Possible, but the number plates matched, as I recall.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
If, as you frequently proclaim, Amaral's mind was made up immediately, why did the PJ investigate Murat so thoroughly?

If, as you have repeatedly claimed, OG are so professional and well trained, what have they been doing with those 7,000 phone calls for nine years?

As I understand it CB was first mentioned in 2013, but not investigated. What were OG doing?

It seems to me that getting that phone number allegedly belonging to CB was the German's lucky break. When it was checked with the phone info it was active on 3rd May in the vicinity.

That's what the info was for, imo, to be available as needed.

The information is acquired to be used in investigations to progress the case.  Not to be set aside for a rainy day on the off chance that it might be 'needed' ten years down the line in this case.


500 calls were received after Gerry and Kate McCann appeared on German TV’s Crimewatch equivalent, Aktenzeichen XY, in 2013.
Brueckner was brought to police attention as a direct result.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2020, 11:19:35 AM
The information is acquired to be used in investigations to progress the case.  Not to be set aside for a rainy day on the off chance that it might be 'needed' ten years down the line in this case.


500 calls were received after Gerry and Kate McCann appeared on German TV’s Crimewatch equivalent, Aktenzeichen XY, in 2013.
Brueckner was brought to police attention as a direct result.

Go on then, let's hypothesise. How could the PJ have progressed the case by noticing that two unregistered phones shared a call at 7.30pm on 3rd May 2007?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 31, 2020, 11:22:59 AM
The information is acquired to be used in investigations to progress the case.  Not to be set aside for a rainy day on the off chance that it might be 'needed' ten years down the line in this case.


500 calls were received after Gerry and Kate McCann appeared on German TV’s Crimewatch equivalent, Aktenzeichen XY, in 2013.
Brueckner was brought to police attention as a direct result.


Then the Germans sat on it for 7 yrs it seems.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2020, 11:25:29 AM
Possible, but the number plates matched, as I recall.

They did? The German police photos didn't show a license plate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2020, 11:30:25 AM
Go on then, let's hypothesise. How could the PJ have progressed the case by noticing that two unregistered phones shared a call at 7.30pm on 3rd May 2007?

Don't let me stand in your way.  If you feel like hypothesising please fire away ... I don't think there is any room to hypothesise since the facts of the matter have all already been stated on the forum ... but you've obviously missed them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2020, 11:33:02 AM
They did? The German police photos didn't show a license plate.

Shortly before Madeleine's disappearance the van doesn't show the cartoon characters painted on the van as shown by Amaral either.  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576985/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-kidnap-campervan-weeks-vanished.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 11:51:38 AM
They did? The German police photos didn't show a license plate.
They did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 31, 2020, 12:00:50 PM
They did.
No they didnt!  and Amaral was talking his usual shite as well...


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 12:02:54 PM
No they didnt!  and Amaral was talking his usual shite as well...
They did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 31, 2020, 12:06:53 PM
Shortly before Madeleine's disappearance the van doesn't show the cartoon characters painted on the van as shown by Amaral either.  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576985/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-kidnap-campervan-weeks-vanished.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576985/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-kidnap-campervan-weeks-vanished.html)
I reckon Brueckner scrubbed off those kiddy-magnet characters after he'd been in trouble for the diesel theft and his admission that he had a paedophile conviction back in Deutschland.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 31, 2020, 12:07:53 PM
They did.
Come on then, What was its registration number?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 31, 2020, 12:22:40 PM
'Quid pro quo. I tell you things, you tell me things. Not about this case, though. About yourself. How about the time you went camping with your family, and there was an incident that you dwell on to this day?'
I take that as a No then, and you can't find it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
I take that as a No then, and you can't find it?
I'll take yours as a no then.
I'm very confident you have it arse about face.


edit: Lad! Someone deleted the most innocuous comment in the history of the forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 31, 2020, 12:40:24 PM
I'll take yours as a no then.
I'm very confident you have it arse about face.


edit: Lad! Someone deleted the most innocuous comment in the history of the forum.

Myster should receive a warning for quoting a deleted post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 31, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Myster should receive a warning for quoting a deleted post.
How is that possible?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 31, 2020, 12:48:08 PM
Myster should receive a warning for quoting a deleted post.
LOL!  I posted mine while Herr General was busily deleting his own deflecting post... so it doesn't count.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 12:52:23 PM
LOL!  I posted mine while Herr General was busily deleting his own deflecting post... so it doesn't count.
I didn't delete it, the moderators did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 31, 2020, 12:59:37 PM
How is that possible?

Don't know but just checked my records and I got a warning for repeating deleted post's.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 01:03:55 PM
Don't know but just checked my records and I got a warning for repeating deleted post's.
In fairness to Myster, it all happened in the blink of an eye.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 31, 2020, 01:14:33 PM
In fairness to Myster, it all happened in the blink of an eye.
Pity... I was looking forward to revealing how I nearly drowned in Butlin's swimming pool on a caravanning holiday in Pwllheli, 19xx.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 01:15:18 PM
Pity... I was looking forward to revealing how I nearly drowned in Butlin's swimming pool on a caravanning holiday in Pwllheli, 19xx.
The Neptune pool, as I recall (it had portholes under water and you were spotted by an onlooker).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 31, 2020, 01:17:15 PM
The Neptune pool, as I recall (it had portholes under water and you were spotted by an onlooker).

Scatter gun approach...then google
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 31, 2020, 01:23:23 PM
The Neptune pool, as I recall (it had portholes under water and you were spotted by an onlooker).

Poseidon?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 01:25:13 PM
Poseidon?
That's the one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 01:26:17 PM
Scatter gun approach...then google
We know your posting style by now, Dav, no need for the heads up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2020, 01:31:45 PM
Don't let me stand in your way.  If you feel like hypothesising please fire away ... I don't think there is any room to hypothesise since the facts of the matter have all already been stated on the forum ... but you've obviously missed them.

Like you missed the fact that the PJ obtained the phone dump on 9th May 2007?

Plenty of alleged facts have been stated, but very little evidence to suport them. When Brueckner was returned to Germany in 1999 there were no EAW's involved. Without knowing which authorities were involved in the process, which police force arrested him and who kept the records it can't be stated as a fact that the PJ had knowledge of his record.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on July 31, 2020, 01:33:59 PM
The Neptune pool, as I recall (it had portholes under water and you were spotted by an onlooker).
I saw the TV advert before we went and how easy swimming underwater looked through the portholes, but they were only installed at Skegness I think, not Pwllheli. Major disapointment, as I wanted to be admired by onlookers for my underwater prowess even though I couldn't swim. Nevertheless i dashed off to the deep end and dived in. The next thing I remember was a lifeguard above me, pumping my weedy chicken breast.

But I digress... BOT.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2020, 01:43:23 PM
Pity... I was looking forward to revealing how I nearly drowned in Butlin's swimming pool on a caravanning holiday in Pwllheli, 19xx.

I thought I was going to die on one of these (Scarborough?) 19xx.

(https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.471608!/image/Divebomber.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 02:06:13 PM
I thought I was going to die on one of these (Scarborough?) 19xx.

(https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.471608!/image/Divebomber.jpg)
Kinell G! Looks like Paxton designed that back in 1870.
What was it called, The Instant Death Spinner?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2020, 02:44:57 PM
Kinell G! Looks like Paxton designed that back in 1870.
What was it called, The Instant Death Spinner?

It was a Dive Bomber. The capsules rotated and they both rotated on their own axis too. No safety straps. It was like being in a blender. I didn't know what way was up when it stopped and I wasn't on the seat, I was on the floor. The only good bit was you couldn't fall out, it was fully enclosed. It was my first and last try on that. Back to the Waltzer!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2020, 03:46:10 PM
Like you missed the fact that the PJ obtained the phone dump on 9th May 2007?

Plenty of alleged facts have been stated, but very little evidence to suport them. When Brueckner was returned to Germany in 1999 there were no EAW's involved. Without knowing which authorities were involved in the process, which police force arrested him and who kept the records it can't be stated as a fact that the PJ had knowledge of his record.

You accuse me of being "obsessed" but I think the shoe is demonstrably very definitely on the other foot.

If you check ~ specific items of phone data were requested ... and these were all McCann related.  In fact in 2008 prosecutors were refused access to the information you think was 'owned' by the Judicial Police but which still had to be requested directly from the phone companies and not a 'dump'.



Court refuses access to telephone data requested by MP

May 27, 2008

Investigation wanted to access the calls and the content of messages from 10 mobile phones addressed to Gerry Mccan, but the Relação de Évora did not authorize.
CARLOS RODRIGUES LIMA

Gerry Mccan, Madeleine Mccan's father received 18 text messages (SMS) from an unidentified mobile phone number between 2 and 3 May 2007. The elements of the investigation into the child's disappearance wanted to access the contents of the messages, but the judge Portimão's investigating body refused such access, a decision confirmed in late April this year by the Évora Court of Appeal.

According to the ruling (which can be consulted in the database of the courts, at www.dgsi.pt ), the MP states that this investigation involves crimes of kidnapping, homicide, exposure to the abandonment of a minor and concealment of a corpse. For this reason, Attorney José Magalhães e Menezes asked mobile telecommunications operators to "send in digital support the complete listings of telephone traffic to calls made and received in the period between April 28th and September 9th, 2007".

The magistrate also asked that the operators' data include "cell location and trace-back, as well as roaming calls and SMS and MMS messages and their content".

Magalhães e Menezes presented 10 mobile phone numbers, one of which was unidentified, which "during May 2, 2007 sent 15 written messages to Gerry Maccan and another 4 the day after Madeleine Mccann disappeared".

The MP's intention came up against the criminal investigating judge who dismissed the request. Pedro Frias maintained that the MP's initiative collided with fundamental rights and guarantees, something that only the investigating judge is responsible for evaluating. In December 2007, the MP appealed to the Court of Appeal of Évora, which, on April 29, gave reason to the judge. https://expresso.pt/dossies/dossiest_actualidade/dos_madeleine_mccan/tribunal-recusa-acesso-a-dados-telefonicos-pedidos-pelo-mp=f331325



So I don't think things are just as cut and dried as you seem to suppose ... which possibly explains procedures which allowed Scotland Yard having legal access enabling the phone data to be passed on to the Germans but the Judicial Police had had not.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 31, 2020, 04:56:32 PM
Gonçalo Amaral shows robot portrait of suspect in Maddie case in 2007 that belies German versionJune 26, 2020

(https://cdn1.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_370x209$2020_06_27_11_06_53_952728.jpg)
Gonçalo Amaral released a photomontage of what Christian Brueckner had at the time of Maddie's disappearance.

For Gonçalo Amaral, a former inspector of the Judiciary Police, Christian Brueckner is the "almost perfect suspect" in the case of Maddie McCann. In an interview with Jornal do Centro https://www.jornaldocentro.pt/aquitv/video/70851/espaco-atualidade-com-goncalo-amaral Amaral released an image of the German with long hair that he claims corresponds to the image that he would have at the time of Maddie's disappearance.

The ex-PJ pointed out what he considers failures of the English and German police in conducting the process. One of the inconsistencies pointed out is related to the images released by the German, which correspond to his current image and not to the one he had 13 years ago, when the crime occurred.

"I cannot say that someone recognizes someone by an image of the person who is already a few years old. People change (...) Showing images of the person at 43 years of age is not the same thing as showing the person at 30" , said, during the interview.

The former coordinator of the Portimão PJ points out that the robot portraits released by the authorities at the time of the crime show a suspect with short hair, a fact that appears to be innocent for Christian Bruecker, who in 2007 would have long hair behind his back.

"In 2007 there are people who claim that his figure is not with short hair. He looked like a hippie and wore long hair behind his back. And the police know that," he also shoots.

To consolidate his statements, Gonçalo Amaral himself decided to present a reconstruction of what the German would look like in the year that Maddie disappeared. Using an image of Brueckner in 2006, a year before Maddie's disappearance, and using an image manipulation program, the former PJ presented a photomontage of the suspect with long hair.

Amaral concludes his theory with the fact that most of the witnesses in the case stated that the suspect was similar to Madeleine McCann's father, allegations corroborated by the English police. "I wonder where this individual resembles Mr. Gerard McCann", he asks.

The former PJ devalues ​​the new evidence linking Christian Brueckner to the investigation of the disappearance of the English girl and asks for more concrete evidence to consolidate a "serious investigation".

https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-mostra-retrato-robo-de-suspeito-do-suspeito-do-caso-maddie-em-2007-que-desmente-versao-alema


He just can't help himself, can he?


He was wrong....again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2020, 05:18:26 PM

He was wrong....again.

I think he is showing a fierce determination to rubbish the present German investigation.  I just haven't worked out why.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 31, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
I think he is showing a fierce determination to rubbish the present German investigation.  I just haven't worked out why.


I think the whole sceptic movement is doing the same. Those who have claimed to be openminded have suddenly become very closed minded
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 31, 2020, 06:16:06 PM

I think the whole sceptic movement is doing the same. Those who have claimed to be openminded have suddenly become very closed minded

I like to keep an open mind, just not that far open that my brain falls out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2020, 08:08:15 PM
You accuse me of being "obsessed" but I think the shoe is demonstrably very definitely on the other foot.

If you check ~ specific items of phone data were requested ... and these were all McCann related.  In fact in 2008 prosecutors were refused access to the information you think was 'owned' by the Judicial Police but which still had to be requested directly from the phone companies and not a 'dump'.



Court refuses access to telephone data requested by MP

May 27, 2008

Investigation wanted to access the calls and the content of messages from 10 mobile phones addressed to Gerry Mccan, but the Relação de Évora did not authorize.
CARLOS RODRIGUES LIMA

Gerry Mccan, Madeleine Mccan's father received 18 text messages (SMS) from an unidentified mobile phone number between 2 and 3 May 2007. The elements of the investigation into the child's disappearance wanted to access the contents of the messages, but the judge Portimão's investigating body refused such access, a decision confirmed in late April this year by the Évora Court of Appeal.

According to the ruling (which can be consulted in the database of the courts, at www.dgsi.pt ), the MP states that this investigation involves crimes of kidnapping, homicide, exposure to the abandonment of a minor and concealment of a corpse. For this reason, Attorney José Magalhães e Menezes asked mobile telecommunications operators to "send in digital support the complete listings of telephone traffic to calls made and received in the period between April 28th and September 9th, 2007".

The magistrate also asked that the operators' data include "cell location and trace-back, as well as roaming calls and SMS and MMS messages and their content".

Magalhães e Menezes presented 10 mobile phone numbers, one of which was unidentified, which "during May 2, 2007 sent 15 written messages to Gerry Maccan and another 4 the day after Madeleine Mccann disappeared".

The MP's intention came up against the criminal investigating judge who dismissed the request. Pedro Frias maintained that the MP's initiative collided with fundamental rights and guarantees, something that only the investigating judge is responsible for evaluating. In December 2007, the MP appealed to the Court of Appeal of Évora, which, on April 29, gave reason to the judge. https://expresso.pt/dossies/dossiest_actualidade/dos_madeleine_mccan/tribunal-recusa-acesso-a-dados-telefonicos-pedidos-pelo-mp=f331325



So I don't think things are just as cut and dried as you seem to suppose ... which possibly explains procedures which allowed Scotland Yard having legal access enabling the phone data to be passed on to the Germans but the Judicial Police had had not.

I never claimed the PJ owned anything. They requested (and got) a three day dump of all calls from certain masts. They then made other requests as required.

According to the files it was 17th September when the PJ decided they needed the Tapas 9 phone records for a longer period than the original phone dump. The judge decided that revealing the contents of text messages were an invasion of privacy.

"Because it has become necessary in this case to analyse telephone traffic of the family, the friends and other telephones verified as being [somehow] related to the events of 3 May 2007, and given the urgency of the investigation, I venture to suggest that, with the competent judicial authority, the following be requested as soon as possible:

1 - the complete lists from 28 April to 9 September 2007 of all telephone calls made and received, including cell mast contacts, and SMS and MMS messages complete with content thereof, for the following telephone numbers [British numbers of the nine adults and one that sent G.McCann 14 SMS messages on 2 May and 4 more the day after the disappearance."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MOBILE_PHONE_ANALYSIS.htm


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 31, 2020, 08:09:45 PM
I like to keep an open mind, just not that far open that my brain falls out.

I think you need to be a bit more careful
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on July 31, 2020, 08:22:42 PM
I think you need to be a bit more careful
I think you need to be a bit more careful
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2020, 10:44:16 PM
I never claimed the PJ owned anything. They requested (and got) a three day dump of all calls from certain masts. They then made other requests as required.

According to the files it was 17th September when the PJ decided they needed the Tapas 9 phone records for a longer period than the original phone dump. The judge decided that revealing the contents of text messages were an invasion of privacy.

"Because it has become necessary in this case to analyse telephone traffic of the family, the friends and other telephones verified as being [somehow] related to the events of 3 May 2007, and given the urgency of the investigation, I venture to suggest that, with the competent judicial authority, the following be requested as soon as possible:

1 - the complete lists from 28 April to 9 September 2007 of all telephone calls made and received, including cell mast contacts, and SMS and MMS messages complete with content thereof, for the following telephone numbers [British numbers of the nine adults and one that sent G.McCann 14 SMS messages on 2 May and 4 more the day after the disappearance."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MOBILE_PHONE_ANALYSIS.htm

As I said with regard to obsession and selective choice of cites  The interest of the investigation lay in the McCann party and the Judicial police were unable to access any phone data without judicial authority.

Read the cite you have provided to save me the bother of providing it yet again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2020, 11:12:15 PM
As I said with regard to obsession and selective choice of cites  The interest of the investigation lay in the McCann party and the Judicial police were unable to access any phone data without judicial authority.

Read the cite you have provided to save me the bother of providing it yet again.

The interest of the investigation lay in the McCann party eventually, obviously, but they didn't ask for their phone records for quite some time; unless you have evidence to the contrary. Judicial approval, like in any judiciary, has to be granted for various investigative actions. So what?

If you find my posts boring feel free to ignore me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 01, 2020, 12:14:29 AM
The interest of the investigation lay in the McCann party eventually, obviously, but they didn't ask for their phone records for quite some time; unless you have evidence to the contrary. Judicial approval, like in any judiciary, has to be granted for various investigative actions. So what?

If you find my posts boring feel free to ignore me.

I intend to
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 01, 2020, 08:52:26 AM
I intend to

The British police may be wonderful in your eyes, but they didn't organise any phone dumps as you declared;

" the phone dump organised by the British police."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg612127#msg612127




Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 01, 2020, 10:18:47 AM
I like to keep an open mind, just not that far open that my brain falls out.


OOPS!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Admin on August 01, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
I know it's amusing and I'm all in favour of some frivolity (I did laugh) but please posters... STOP GOADING each other.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 01, 2020, 06:00:05 PM
I know it's amusing and I'm all in favour of some frivolity (I did laugh) but please posters... STOP GOADING each other.
...and yet, no warnings. Interesting.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 01, 2020, 07:40:17 PM
Goncalo seems to have made an error in saying Christian B had long hair at the time of Madelkeine's abduction.
Goncalo's longhaired CB http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg612531#msg612531

Video footage which could prove CB had short hair the month before would seem to deny that.
As per Carana's post http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11174.msg612748#msg612748
"March 30, 2007 according to the Mail.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576985/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-kidnap-campervan-weeks-vanished.html


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11174.msg612664#msg612664

(https://cdn1.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_370x209$2020_06_27_11_06_53_952728.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on August 01, 2020, 07:50:19 PM
Goncalo seems to have made an error in saying Christian B had long hair at the time of Madelkeine's abduction.
Goncalo's longhaired CB http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg612531#msg612531

Video footage which could prove CB had short hair the month before would seem to deny that.
As per Carana's post http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11174.msg612748#msg612748
"March 30, 2007 according to the Mail.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576985/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-kidnap-campervan-weeks-vanished.html


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11174.msg612664#msg612664

(https://cdn1.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_370x209$2020_06_27_11_06_53_952728.jpg)

Was he also told incorrect information about a van with cartoons?

If so, perhaps he ought to have checked?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 01, 2020, 08:08:11 PM
At some stage it had cartoons.

(https://i.imgur.com/SdFlIMY.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/9Shjzr8.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 01, 2020, 08:49:51 PM
At some stage it had cartoons.

(https://i.imgur.com/SdFlIMY.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/9Shjzr8.jpg)

As Amaral says ...
"In 2006, which is the closest year to the event, he ( Christian Brückner ) had another image, with a little short hair.

In 2007, there are people who claim that he looked like a hippie with hair behind his back.

And here we come back to the question of hair and testimonies following the disappearance in which the couple's friend says she saw a man with short hair.

What is asked is why robot images and portraits are allowed that go against a certain profile of someone who is similar to what was said in that statement." https://jornaldocentro.pt/online/regiao/goncalo-amaral-investigador-do-caso-maddie-diz-que-teoria-do-rapto-e-mais-fragil
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 01, 2020, 10:05:35 PM
Trying to figure out the wording at the rear end.  There's a robot which appears to be filling up with petrol from the VW's fuel tank?  Or the robot (petrol pump?) is filling the VW?

Top words read as:

faz as malas ~ pack your bags

or

fiz as malas ~ I packed


There's a (Brazilian) 'Fiz as Malas' youth travel page on YouTube, but probably nothing to do with it...

https://www.youtube.com/c/FizasMalas/about (https://www.youtube.com/c/FizasMalas/about)


Can't read what the other words below say though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 01, 2020, 10:19:55 PM
A video walkthrough of a VW Westfalia of similar age... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGGD4UXdqBk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGGD4UXdqBk)

and another... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYifew_s5g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYifew_s5g)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 01, 2020, 10:28:48 PM
As Amaral says ...
"In 2006, which is the closest year to the event, he ( Christian Brückner ) had another image, with a little short hair.

In 2007, there are people who claim that he looked like a hippie with hair behind his back.

And here we come back to the question of hair and testimonies following the disappearance in which the couple's friend says she saw a man with short hair.

What is asked is why robot images and portraits are allowed that go against a certain profile of someone who is similar to what was said in that statement." https://jornaldocentro.pt/online/regiao/goncalo-amaral-investigador-do-caso-maddie-diz-que-teoria-do-rapto-e-mais-fragil

Are you talking about Tanner ?

This is what she said :

‘Reply    “But, I mean, I think, so the things that I’m happy, that are still in my head, that still stick in my head is the hair and it was longer, it was sort of longish and, erm, I don’t know how to (inaudible), but each, each, almost the hair was long, the bits of hair were long, so it was long into the neck, you know, sort of in, when people have a number one or whatever at the back and it’s shaved, not shaved up, but, you know, sort of layered up, this was more long into the neck, so sort of long, each, each individual hair was long, erm, and dark, it was sort of quite dark and glossy, that sticks in my head.’

Short hair ? Perhaps you’re talking about another friend ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 01, 2020, 11:01:59 PM
As Amaral says ...
"In 2006, which is the closest year to the event, he ( Christian Brückner ) had another image, with a little short hair.

In 2007, there are people who claim that he looked like a hippie with hair behind his back.

And here we come back to the question of hair and testimonies following the disappearance in which the couple's friend says she saw a man with short hair.

What is asked is why robot images and portraits are allowed that go against a certain profile of someone who is similar to what was said in that statement." https://jornaldocentro.pt/online/regiao/goncalo-amaral-investigador-do-caso-maddie-diz-que-teoria-do-rapto-e-mais-fragil
I'd say the cartoon images were later painted over with what looks like house paint.   So the top photo is the more recent IMO.  The rust has got worse too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 01, 2020, 11:13:30 PM
I'd say the cartoon images are painted over with what looks like house paint.   So the top photo is the more recent IMO.  The rust has got worse too.

We have absolutely no idea what these images represent.

As far as I know no one has mentioned anything about a campervan covered with cartoons in any context with the exception of Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 01, 2020, 11:19:31 PM
We have absolutely no idea what these images represent.

As far as I know no one has mentioned anything about a campervan covered with cartoons in any context with the exception of Amaral.
He may have bought a van covered with cartoons and painted over them himself.   We don't need to analyse what the paintings mean IMO.
Do you agree the two tone van is a more recent photo?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 01, 2020, 11:23:25 PM
Are you talking about Tanner ?

This is what she said :

‘Reply    “But, I mean, I think, so the things that I’m happy, that are still in my head, that still stick in my head is the hair and it was longer, it was sort of longish and, erm, I don’t know how to (inaudible), but each, each, almost the hair was long, the bits of hair were long, so it was long into the neck, you know, sort of in, when people have a number one or whatever at the back and it’s shaved, not shaved up, but, you know, sort of layered up, this was more long into the neck, so sort of long, each, each individual hair was long, erm, and dark, it was sort of quite dark and glossy, that sticks in my head.’

Short hair ? Perhaps you’re talking about another friend ?
It was a quote from Amaral.  He doesn't say which friend but it sounded a bit like Jane Tanner's description of the man she saw.  Hair was shorter than Amaral's recollection of CB's hair presumably.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 02, 2020, 12:14:45 AM
He may have bought a van covered with cartoons and painted over them himself.   We don't need to analyse what the paintings mean IMO.
Do you agree the two tone van is a more recent photo?

I've no opinion regarding it, Rob.

There is nothing to say whose van it is or anything else about it ... and I am certainly taking nothing that Amaral is promoting at face value.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 02, 2020, 01:43:02 AM
I've no opinion regarding it, Rob.

There is nothing to say whose van it is or anything else about it ... and I am certainly taking nothing that Amaral is promoting at face value.
'I thought it would be a matter of looking at the photos of the van and assessing which came first.    It is not as if anyone will tell us this but the evidence is in front of our eyes.  OK granted, not everyone will have experience at painting a car with house paint.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 02, 2020, 02:09:31 AM
We have absolutely no idea what these images represent.

As far as I know no one has mentioned anything about a campervan covered with cartoons in any context with the exception of Amaral.

I am doing this from memory, but I am doubtful that the same hand was responsible for the images on the campervan … and for the images in red on a wall in Chistian B's first, as shown to us, derelict place in Germany
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 02, 2020, 02:22:18 AM
 %56&
I'd say the cartoon images were later painted over with what looks like house paint.   So the top photo is the more recent IMO.  The rust has got worse too.

If those two images are of the same campervan, I would think it has been rolled and very crudely rebuilt.  Along the side of the newer van is a designed manufactured double bend in the sheet metal, kind of a rib..  This is designed in as sheet metal is very flexible and a 'rib ' along strengthens the panel; also it is visually pleasant enough.  As you can see in the older van image, the double bend has become a single bend on an exceptionally crude refurbishment.

Alternatively they could be images of two different vans.

Anyway, why is Amaral so interested in the cartoons on the van and telling the World about them?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on August 02, 2020, 02:46:19 AM
Trying to figure out the wording at the rear end.  There's a robot which appears to be filling up with petrol from the VW's fuel tank?  Or the robot (petrol pump?) is filling the VW?

Top words read as:

faz as malas ~ pack your bags

or

fiz as malas ~ I packed


There's a (Brazilian) 'Fiz as Malas' youth travel page on YouTube, but probably nothing to do with it...

https://www.youtube.com/c/FizasMalas/about (https://www.youtube.com/c/FizasMalas/about)


Can't read what the other words below say though.

The other words are "fugimos hoje", which translates to "we ran away today". Stencilled rather than freehand & in Portuguese rather than CB's native German.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 02, 2020, 06:30:39 AM
The other words are "fugimos hoje", which translates to "we ran away today". Stencilled rather than freehand & in Portuguese rather than CB's native German.
A common Portuguese graffiti catch-phrase...

https://www.google.com/search?q=faz+as+malas+fugimos+hoje&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwifpNSX0_vqAhUHihoKHSiTAsgQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=faz+as+malas+fugimos+hoje&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECAAQHjoGCAAQBxAeUOeVClj-zgpgktMKaABwAHgAgAE6iAH_BZIBAjE0mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=pjwmX5-5JIeUaqimisAM&bih=1002&biw=1859&client=firefox-b-d#imgrc=p8_3Ewtb62Wx4M (https://www.google.com/search?q=faz+as+malas+fugimos+hoje&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwifpNSX0_vqAhUHihoKHSiTAsgQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=faz+as+malas+fugimos+hoje&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECAAQHjoGCAAQBxAeUOeVClj-zgpgktMKaABwAHgAgAE6iAH_BZIBAjE0mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=pjwmX5-5JIeUaqimisAM&bih=1002&biw=1859&client=firefox-b-d#imgrc=p8_3Ewtb62Wx4M)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 02, 2020, 08:13:52 AM
%56&
If those two images are of the same campervan, I would think it has been rolled and very crudely rebuilt.  Along the side of the newer van is a designed manufactured double bend in the sheet metal, kind of a rib..  This is designed in as sheet metal is very flexible and a 'rib ' along strengthens the panel; also it is visually pleasant enough.  As you can see in the older van image, the double bend has become a single bend on an exceptionally crude refurbishment.

Alternatively they could be images of two different vans.

Anyway, why is Amaral so interested in the cartoons on the van and telling the World about them?

I've been puzzling that myself, Sadie.

As well as the rubbishing of Brueckner's appearance even down to altering his photograph with the addition of dreadlocks.

In my opinion Amaral doesn't do anything without a reason beneficial to Amaral.  So what on earth is behind his first intervention which led to the outing of Brueckner.
What is behind the 'information' he pushed about the cartoon drawings on the van and why muddy the water with the Brueckner in dreads intervention?

I daresay all will be revealed in the fullness of time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on August 02, 2020, 08:30:57 AM
I wonder how many people listening to Amaral on TV are now confused about which man and which cars the police are appealing for information?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 02, 2020, 08:54:02 AM
So its agreed then that the dreadlock man seen around the ocean club was not the german, nor was it tannerman.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 02, 2020, 09:00:04 AM
I wonder how many people listening to Amaral on TV are now confused about which man and which cars the police are appealing for information?

The Portuguese headlines were awash with Amaral's criticism of the German investigation ... very many of which were billed under his former title as a top Judicial Police officer and mentioning his 'defence' of the PJ (which in effect was defence only of himself and his botched investigation).



Gonçalo Amaral devastates German investigation and reveals new photos of Brueckner's van
This Sunday night, Gonçalo Amaral, a former inspector of the Judicial Police (PJ) of Portimão, was present at Jornal das 8, on TVI, and stated that the German Christian Brueckner, appointed as a suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, is “a scapegoat".
https://zap.aeiou.pt/amaral-arrasa-investigacao-alema-331219

Gonçalo Amaral destroys German investigation into Maddie case: "He is an almost perfect suspect. He would only be perfect if he were dead"
In an interview yesterday in 'Jornal das Oito', the former Judicial Police inspector who investigated Maddie's case, dismantled the German police theory that the German Christian Brueckner killed the girl. https://www.flash.pt/atualidade/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-arrasa-investigacao-alema-sobre-caso-maddie-e-o-suspeito-quase-perfeito-so-seria-perfeito-se-estivesse-morto

Revista TV GUIA
22 June ·
Gonçalo Amaral deita por terra teoria da polícia alemã. E explica porquê  https://www.facebook.com/RevistaTVGUIA/posts/3013141182110429

Gonçalo Amaral predicted, a year ago, a German suspect in the Maddie case
By Jornal de Notícias • June 5th, 2020
Gonçalo Amaral predicted, more than a year ago, that the British police would point the investigation at "a pedophile", "detained in Germany", as a suspect in the abduction of Madeleine McCann, in 2007, in the Algarve.

British police "are preparing to end the investigation with a German pedophile who is currently in prison," said Gonçalo Amaral, in April 2019, in an interview given to the podcast of the Australian television channel "Nine".
https://www.sulinformacao.pt/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-previu-ha-um-ano-suspeito-alemao-no-caso-maddie/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 02, 2020, 09:02:06 AM
So its agreed then that the dreadlock man seen around the ocean club was not the german, nor was it tannerman.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 02, 2020, 09:03:33 AM
How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Work it out, the german was short haired,that is what Amaral is pointing out,wood for the tree's.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 02, 2020, 09:11:06 AM
Work it out, the german was short haired,that is what Amaral is pointing out,wood for the tree's.

If you wish to be led by the nose by Amaral's various assertions that is entirely your affair; just please do not presume as you have "So its agreed then ..." that is the opinion of other members as you may very well be entirely wrong in that.

Post it again and I shall delete it ... if you don't like it ... please take it further up the tree.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 02, 2020, 09:15:17 AM
If you wish to be led by the nose by Amaral's various assertions that is entirely your affair; just please do not presume as you have "So its agreed then ..." that is the opinion of other members as you may very well be entirely wrong in that.

Post it again and I shall delete it ... if you don't like it ... please take it further up the tree.
I agreed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 02, 2020, 09:21:23 AM
If you wish to be led by the nose by Amaral's various assertions that is entirely your affair; just please do not presume as you have "So its agreed then ..." that is the opinion of other members as you may very well be entirely wrong in that.

Post it again and I shall delete it ... if you don't like it ... please take it further up the tree.

You don't like differing opinions do you,I think its you who should take it up with admin or John.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 02, 2020, 09:27:37 AM
Allegedly five weeks before the disappearance,hardly long hair or dreadlock's.



(https://i.imgur.com/3YKYbFg.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 02, 2020, 09:37:17 AM
Allegedly five weeks before the disappearance,hardly long hair or dreadlock's.



(https://i.imgur.com/3YKYbFg.jpg)

Yes, a few of us have seen the photograph and have noted his short hair.  Which is why there has been some discussion about why Amaral is promoting the dreadlock theme ... complete with photograph.

Why do you think that is?

Some of us have also noted that his van isn't covered with cartoon characters either ... but according to Amaral it was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 02, 2020, 09:46:13 AM
Yes, a few of us have seen the photograph and have noted his short hair.  Which is why there has been some discussion about why Amaral is promoting the dreadlock theme ... complete with photograph.

Why do you think that is?

Some of us have also noted that his van isn't covered with cartoon characters either ... but according to Amaral it was.

Where did the images of the van come from then,its identical when you take the cartoons away. Amaral is showing that it could not be the german that was described as being with dreadlocks or longish hair that tannerman supposedly had.It weren't him,period.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 02, 2020, 09:57:05 AM
Where did the images of the van come from then,its identical when you take the cartoons away. Amaral is showing that it could not be the german that was described as being with dreadlocks or longish hair that tannerman supposedly had.It weren't him,period.

From the buried memory sticks perhaps
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 02, 2020, 10:13:11 AM
So its agreed then that the dreadlock man seen around the ocean club was not the german, nor was it tannerman.
No, not in my head it isn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 02, 2020, 10:29:58 AM
From the buried memory sticks perhaps

I never thought of that.  Very good point.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on August 02, 2020, 10:30:22 AM
I wonder how many people listening to Amaral on TV are now confused about which man and which cars the police are appealing for information?

Too true. Why on earth depict him with dreadlocks when that wasn't the case according to the video taken in March?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 02, 2020, 10:31:26 AM
From the buried memory sticks perhaps

The cartoon ones?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 02, 2020, 10:33:57 AM
The cartoon ones?

those are from amaral...you would have to ask him
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on August 02, 2020, 10:43:08 AM
More filibustering from Amaral. If Brueckener is the 'perfect suspect' he should have been investigated at the time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 02, 2020, 10:49:16 AM
More filibustering from Amaral. If Brueckener is the 'perfect suspect' he should have been investigated at the time.

The perfect fall guy, he meant.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 02, 2020, 11:00:04 AM
Too true. Why on earth depict him with dreadlocks when that wasn't the case according to the video taken in March?

If people actually read what Amaral said on cmtv, the german had short hair there were reports of long hair so it could not be him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on August 02, 2020, 11:03:01 AM
What amazes me is the fact that the news media are all promoting Christian Brueckner as if he is guilty of abducting Madeleine McCann when there isn't a shred of evidence to support it. Crazy or what?

The guy is to be pitied if anything, He had a rotten start in life and was undoubtedly abused in one way or another as an orphan. By the time he was adopted the damage was done imo. I'm not surprised in the least that he boasted of his exploits in the Algarve to an associate, that is what these people do constantly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on August 02, 2020, 11:03:37 AM
The perfect fall guy, he meant.

Oh yes, that's what he meant to say. He leaves out the logical corollary which is what the statement says about his own investigation. As if we won't notice.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 02, 2020, 11:08:39 AM
Oh yes, that's what he meant to say. He leaves out the logical corollary which is what the statement says about his own investigation. As if we won't notice.

I don't think the PJ were looking for a fall guy, and the informer didn't bother to contact them in 2007, s/he waited until 2013.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 02, 2020, 11:10:29 AM
I don't think the PJ were looking for a fall guy, and the informer didn't bother to contact them in 2007, s/he waited until 2013.

Then the German police have waited another 7 yrs to act.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 02, 2020, 11:17:14 AM
I agreed.

And me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on August 02, 2020, 11:19:25 AM
The other words are "fugimos hoje", which translates to "we ran away today". Stencilled rather than freehand & in Portuguese rather than CB's native German.
Also interesting that Brückner’s Skype name is/was ‘Holger Wahnsinn’.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on August 02, 2020, 11:21:25 AM
I don't think the PJ were looking for a fall guy, and the informer didn't bother to contact them in 2007, s/he waited until 2013.

I'm not suggesting that the PJ were looking for a fall guy.

But they were responsible for tracking down the person or persons involved in MM's disappearance and failed from the outset to investigate. Brueckener as well as other pedophiles and prolific criminals were operational in the area long before M went missing and Amaral was content to bark only up one tree.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 02, 2020, 11:46:41 AM
What amazes me is the fact that the news media are all promoting Christian Brueckner as if he is guilty of abducting Madeleine McCann when there isn't a shred of evidence to support it. Crazy or what?

The guy is to be pitied if anything, He had a rotten start in life and was undoubtedly abused in one way or another as an orphan. By the time he was adopted the damage was done imo. I'm not surprised in the least that he boasted of his exploits in the Algarve to an associate, that is what these people do constantly.

What an odd post. We don't know  what evidence the police have but what we know makes him a suspect  and hes  a suspect mainly due to his own actions. I don't feel a shred of sympathy for him.

What about the accusations against the MCCanns...Amarals book...no synpathy from the sceptics there...a very very odd post
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 02, 2020, 11:47:17 AM
I'm not suggesting that the PJ were looking for a fall guy.

But they were responsible for tracking down the person or persons involved in MM's disappearance and failed from the outset to investigate. Brueckener as well as other pedophiles and prolific criminals were operational in the area long before M went missing and Amaral was content to bark only up one tree.
I'm sure Robert Murat would disagree with you there, Holmes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 02, 2020, 12:23:28 PM
What amazes me is the fact that the news media are all promoting Christian Brueckner as if he is guilty of abducting Madeleine McCann when there isn't a shred of evidence to support it. Crazy or what?

The guy is to be pitied if anything, He had a rotten start in life and was undoubtedly abused in one way or another as an orphan. By the time he was adopted the damage was done imo. I'm not surprised in the least that he boasted of his exploits in the Algarve to an associate, that is what these people do constantly.

He was then rejected by his adoptive parents due to getting into trouble and ended up in the care of the state, I believe. While none of it justifies breaking the law, it may explain it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 02, 2020, 01:02:00 PM
He was then rejected by his adoptive parents due to getting into trouble and ended up in the care of the state, I believe. While none of it justifies breaking the law, it may explain it.

I think you and John are making pathetic excuses for  a thoroughly nasty person. No excuses made for the mccann supporter convicted for downloading porn.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on August 02, 2020, 01:10:48 PM
More filibustering from Amaral. If Brueckener is the 'perfect suspect' he should have been investigated at the time.

Welcome back, Sherlock! :)

Something isn't making sense to me.

Way before the 2006 diesel theft, when he'd admitted a previous conviction for sexual offenses during a court hearing, he'd apparently already been extradited from Portugal to Germany in 1999 for child sex offenses committed in 1994, but convicted in 1995... and somehow seemingly disappeared off the radar before serving his sentence.

www.telegraph.co.uk › news › 2020/06/10 › new-germ...
Jun 10, 2020 - He had planned to start his own business but in 1999 the authorities caught up with him again. Brückner was arrested and extradited to ...

Brueckner (left and right in the 1999 mugshots), then 22, was being extradited back to Germany to be sent to jail for sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl in a playground in 1994.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538057/Portuguese-police-mugshots-Christian-Brueckner-1999-reveal-officers-knew-sordid-past.html

Aside from what appears to read as PJ Faro, I can't work out the other detalls on the board.

Edit: A different source is Sky.

https://news.sky.com/story/police-in-portugal-reopen-rape-investigation-after-claim-against-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12033629

The mugshots appear to have been taken on 13/7/2009 at the Directoria do Sul, i.e., presumably Faro.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on August 02, 2020, 01:19:10 PM
I'm sure Robert Murat would disagree with you there, Holmes.

Well that's a case in point come to think of it, General.

Murat and the McCanns have zero history of infractions yet both were made arguidos, while CB and other career criminals barely merited a look-in.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 02, 2020, 01:35:29 PM
Well that's a case in point come to think of it, General.

Murat and the McCanns have zero history of infractions yet both were made arguidos, while CB and other career criminals barely merited a look-in.
I'd ask for a cite for that claim, but CBA, it's Sunday.
How's The Case of the Four Gabled Dancing Hound Stones coming along?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 02, 2020, 01:53:17 PM
I'd ask for a cite for that claim, but CBA, it's Sunday.
How's The Case of the Four Gabled Dancing Hound Stones coming along?

Don't Start.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on August 02, 2020, 02:10:36 PM
Welcome back, Sherlock! :)

Something isn't making sense to me.

Way before the 2006 diesel theft, when he'd admitted a previous conviction for sexual offenses during a court hearing, he'd apparently already been extradited from Portugal to Germany in 1999 for child sex offenses committed in 1994, but convicted in 1995... and somehow seemingly disappeared off the radar before serving his sentence.

www.telegraph.co.uk › news › 2020/06/10 › new-germ...
Jun 10, 2020 - He had planned to start his own business but in 1999 the authorities caught up with him again. Brückner was arrested and extradited to ...

Brueckner (left and right in the 1999 mugshots), then 22, was being extradited back to Germany to be sent to jail for sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl in a playground in 1994.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8538057/Portuguese-police-mugshots-Christian-Brueckner-1999-reveal-officers-knew-sordid-past.html

Aside from what appears to read as PJ Faro, I can't work out the other detalls on the board.

Edit: A different source is Sky.

https://news.sky.com/story/police-in-portugal-reopen-rape-investigation-after-claim-against-madeleine-mccann-suspect-12033629

The mugshots appear to have been taken on 13/7/2009 at the Directoria do Sul, i.e., presumably Faro.

Thanks for the welcome, Carana. It's good to be back and to see you on the board.

This all goes to show that Brueckener - whether innocent or guilty re MM as remains to be proven - should have been a suspect, if not the main one, from the early days of the investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on August 02, 2020, 02:14:49 PM
I'd ask for a cite for that claim, but CBA, it's Sunday.
How's The Case of the Four Gabled Dancing Hound Stones coming along?

My casework has been slow since London was in lockdown. Meanwhile, I'm biding my time with the punctillious Germans.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 02, 2020, 02:22:48 PM

Any further Replies to Smart Alec Comments will be Deleted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 02, 2020, 04:01:25 PM
He was then rejected by his adoptive parents due to getting into trouble and ended up in the care of the state, I believe. While none of it justifies breaking the law, it may explain it.
Could you explain that one to us please.  Being rejected by his adoptive parents and being taken into care explains why he tortured and raped an old woman and abused young children.  I look forward to your explanation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 02, 2020, 04:03:52 PM
Could you explain that one to us please.  Being rejected by his adoptive parents and being taken into care explains why he tortured and raped an old woman and abused young children.  I look forward to your explanation.

I might be interested in that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 02, 2020, 05:36:53 PM
I might be interested in that.
I thought we might have had the explanation by now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on August 02, 2020, 06:47:29 PM
3 June, 2020
The first vehicle is a distinctive VW T3 Westfalia campervan. It is an early 1980s model, with two tone markings, a white upper body and a yellow skirting. It had a Portuguese registration plate.
http://news.met.police.uk/news/operation-grange-update-and-appeal-403826

Amaral's graffiti-van also appears to have PT plates and appears to have been registered in July 82, so it may or may not be the same vehicle.
https://tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/maddie/goncalo-amaral-revela-fotos-que-diz-serem-da-van-do-suspeito-nas-quais-o-veiculo-esta-diferente/

However, Amaral said that the photo was taken last year.
Numa entrevista ao "Jornal das 8" da TVI, domingo à noite, Amaral mostrou uma fotografia do veículo personalizado com bonecos desenhados a preto e que não corresponde às imagens que foram divulgadas pela polícia alemã.

O antigo coordenador assegurou ter a certeza de que o veículo "é o mesmo" e que a fotografia "foi tirada no ano passado", no Algarve, sem dizer concretamente onde, antes de ter sido levado para a Alemanha onde foi alvo de peritagens. "É a viatura que o suspeito, dizem, tinha na altura, e que é totalmente diferente daquilo que nos têm mostrado", acusou.

Google translation:
In an interview with TVI's "Jornal das 8", Sunday night, Amaral showed a photograph of the vehicle personalized with dolls drawn in black and that does not correspond to the images that were released by the German police.

The former coordinator assured that he is sure that the vehicle "is the same" and that the photograph "was taken last year" in the Algarve, without specifically saying where, before he [it?]  was taken to Germany where he [it?] was the target of surveys. "It is the vehicle that the suspect, they say, had at the time, and that is totally different from what they have shown us," he accused.

https://www.jn.pt/justica/ex-inspetor-diz-que-imagem-da-carrinha-de-suspeito-de-raptar-maddie-tera-sido-alterada-12337119.html

Assuming for a moment that Amaral is correct that it is indeed the same van, and that the graffiti-van photos were indeed taken last year (although how he got hold of them remains a mystery) why does he think the Met / BKA would release photos of what it looks like now, as opposed to how it looked back in 2007?

From the English pdf on the BKA site. https://www.bka.de/DE/IhreSicherheit/Fahndungen/Personen/BekanntePersonen/43_Jaehriger_Deutscher_TV/Sachverhalt.html

At the time in question, the suspect used a dark coloured Jaguar XJR 6. We do not hold any infor-mation on the specific registration of the vehicle before the offence was committed. The last known registration after the day of the offence was a city of Augsburg registration. He also used a white and yellow VW T3 Westfalia with a Portuguese registration. There is information suggesting that he may have used one of these vehicles to commit the offence.


(...)

Vehicle 2 VW T3 Westfalia
Colour: White / yellow
Registration number: In May 2007, the vehicle carried Portuguese number plates
Whereabouts: The whereabouts of the vehicle are known
Please note: The suspect was not the vehicle keeper. The vehicle keeper can be ruled out as a suspect.


------

From the Met site: http://news.met.police.uk/news/operation-grange-update-and-appeal-403826
The Operation Grange team is revealing details of two vehicles which the suspect is known to have had access to and used around the time of Madeleine’s disappearance.

The first vehicle is a distinctive VW T3 Westfalia campervan. It is an early 1980s model, with two tone markings, a white upper body and a yellow skirting. It had a Portuguese registration plate.

The suspect had access to this van from at least April 2007 until sometime after May 2007. It was used in and around the area of Praia da Luz.

We believe he was living in this van for days, possibly weeks, and may have been using it on 3 May 2007.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 03, 2020, 12:07:38 AM
The other words are "fugimos hoje", which translates to "we ran away today". Stencilled rather than freehand & in Portuguese rather than CB's native German.

The stencilling rather than freehand is an interesting observation Misty.   Very interesting that a bloke who normally freehands things, suddenly changes to stencils.   Makes one wonder if those words "we ran away today" were not by CB, but were planted with a reason. 

I think that CB is a scapegoat too, but I believe he is a scapegoat for the Huge worldwide human trafficking / drug running group who abducted Madeleine on someones orders..  'Cos it is perfectly obvious that this was a well planned abduction, rather than a burglary opportunist abduction IMO

Another thing is that I have noticed is that the style of freehand graffiti attributed to Bruckner is totally different in the graffiti on his van, to the graffiti on the walls of his factory place in Germany.  I am doubtful that they are by the same person.   

Could the graffiti in his factory place have been added by some group keen to convict Bruckner, so as to ensure that the world believes Madeleine is long dead?   And then the dangers of anyone looking for and finding a living Madeleine will be gone?    They will no longer have to worry about her being found and themselves imprisoned?  Also their historical brotherhood can carry on raking in the dirty illicit money from modern slavery and drug supply?   What do others think about this ?  Could I be right ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 03, 2020, 12:33:00 AM
Operation Grange didn't say that the man they're looking for owned the VW van. They said "The suspect had access to this van from at least April 2007 until sometime after May 2007. It was used in and around the area of Praia da Luz."
http://news.met.police.uk/news/operation-grange-update-and-appeal-403826

If the van was owned by someone else it's unlikely that Brueckner would be decorating it with grafitti imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 03, 2020, 12:51:42 AM
I've been puzzling that myself, Sadie.

As well as the rubbishing of Brueckner's appearance even down to altering his photograph with the addition of dreadlocks.

In my opinion Amaral doesn't do anything without a reason beneficial to Amaral.  So what on earth is behind his first intervention which led to the outing of Brueckner.
What is behind the 'information' he pushed about the cartoon drawings on the van and why muddy the water with the Brueckner in dreads intervention?

I daresay all will be revealed in the fullness of time.


How very perceptive you are Brie. 

I so like your phrase In my opinion Amaral doesn't do anything without a reason beneficial to Amaral.. 

Do you know what ?   The more we hear and see, the more I am believing that Bruckner, nasty man that he is, has been set up to take the blame for 'murdering' Madeleine.  From a multitude of various indicators, seemingly called on here 'circumstantial evidence',  I believe that Madeleine is likely still very much alive.

If Madeleine IS STILL ALIVE there will be bountiful DNA available.  Just cut off some of her hair.  Persuade her to give blood … and then arrange for the body of a dead child to be buried somewhere with Madeleines hair and blood

Plant the body of a child somewhere connected with Bruckner. 
A cadaver dog would find the body, but couldn't identify whose it was …. BUT the DNA so easily obtainable from a living Madeleine will identify it with Madeleine. 

Now this is only a hypothesis, but I hope that if they do find such a body, they will carefully examine the ears, cos as the brilliant Misty found out for us the ears are distinctive and never change as the owner grows older.


If a body is found, German Police and British Police, please EXAMINE THE EARS carefully …. and compare the shape to photos held by The Mccanns themselves and OG..   We all have witnessed how images can be altered on here
 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 03, 2020, 01:24:10 AM
From the buried memory sticks perhaps

Good idea, Dave, but Amaral is no longer on the case nor in the PJ.  Who gave him access to them and why would they ?   Are those words meant to be found by people such as us, or in Court, to help convict Bruckner ?

Bruckner may have been involved in the abduction, but I doubt that he actually did it, tbh.




And all they need to do, if they are thinking that he carried a dead Madeleine back to Germany in the Allegro ( Bigger than a Winnibago, I think) is let the cadaver dog loose in there.

Another thing that bothers me is that the father (is his name Dieter?) of the woman who ran the German boys home in Farol, claimed that he only met Bruckner the once, yet Bruckner told him that he carried a huge quantity of Canabis, or even could carry a child totally hidden from anyone in that giant van.  I find it amazing that Bruckner would so casually say such a thing to a 'stranger'.  It almost felt to me that we were being told; and that he was actually 'setting the seed' that this was the way that Bruckner got Madeleine back to Germany.

And we don't even know that Madeleine has ever been in Germany, do we ?


So many things seem contrived to me, but I accept that I have no proof, just observations that may well be incorrect.

Did anyone else have similar feelings?

It is only hypothetical, but that is how it felt to me
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 08:25:13 AM
Good idea, Dave, but Amaral is no longer on the case nor in the PJ.  Who gave him access to them and why would they ?   Are those words meant to be found by people such as us, or in Court, to help convict Bruckner ?

Bruckner may have been involved in the abduction, but I doubt that he actually did it, tbh.




And all they need to do, if they are thinking that he carried a dead Madeleine back to Germany in the Allegro ( Bigger than a Winnibago, I think) is let the cadaver dog loose in there.

Another thing that bothers me is that the father (is his name Dieter?) of the woman who ran the German boys home in Farol, claimed that he only met Bruckner the once, yet Bruckner told him that he carried a huge quantity of Canabis, or even could carry a child totally hidden from anyone in that giant van.  I find it amazing that Bruckner would so casually say such a thing to a 'stranger'.  It almost felt to me that we were being told; and that he was actually 'setting the seed' that this was the way that Bruckner got Madeleine back to Germany.

And we don't even know that Madeleine has ever been in Germany, do we ?


So many things seem contrived to me, but I accept that I have no proof, just observations that may well be incorrect.

Did anyone else have similar feelings?

It is only hypothetical, but that is how it felt to me


I don't believe the Germans have decided to get involved so that they can provide  a scapegoat ....another conspiracy too far I think. CB will be judged on the evidence....and we have to wait to know exactly what that is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 03, 2020, 09:54:02 AM

I don't believe the Germans have decided to get involved so that they can provide  a scapegoat ....another conspiracy too far I think. CB will be judged on the evidence....and we have to wait to know exactly what that is.
I've already explained that they, quite rightly, followed up a 2nd tip from a member of the public during the 10 year anniversary appeal - so CB's name popping up twice independently. They had him under surveillance and they sifted through the phone records and they got a hit (of sorts). That coupled with his criminal record and there you have it - a suspect.
They then check the files and find that someone was dead in that apartment.
I understand the logic and it's totally justified to investigate as they have. The didn't set out to create a scapegoat, but I can also see why it's perceived that way.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 03, 2020, 10:12:14 AM
I've already explained that they, quite rightly, followed up a 2nd tip from a member of the public during the 10 year anniversary appeal - so CB's name popping up twice independently. They had him under surveillance and they sifted through the phone records and they got a hit (of sorts). That coupled with his criminal record and there you have it - a suspect.
They then check the files and find that someone was dead in that apartment.
I understand the logic and it's totally justified to investigate as they have. The didn't set out to create a scapegoat, but I can also see why it's perceived that way.
???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 03, 2020, 10:17:14 AM
I've already explained that they, quite rightly, followed up a 2nd tip from a member of the public during the 10 year anniversary appeal - so CB's name popping up twice independently. They had him under surveillance and they sifted through the phone records and they got a hit (of sorts). That coupled with his criminal record and there you have it - a suspect.
They then check the files and find that someone was dead in that apartment.
I understand the logic and it's totally justified to investigate as they have. The didn't set out to create a scapegoat, but I can also see why it's perceived that way.

Someone told Amaral about the interest in Brueckner too; a year ago. The scapegoat theory was either his opinion or the opinion of whoever told him what was going on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 03, 2020, 10:24:15 AM
Someone told Amaral about the interest in Brueckner too; a year ago. The scapegoat theory was either his opinion or the opinion of whoever told him what was going on.
It’s obviously his opinion otherwise he wouldn’t have voiced it.  It’s obvious also IMO that he would do everything he could to rubbish any development in this case that wasn’t centred on the parents (like most sceptics would, also imo).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 03, 2020, 10:48:14 AM
It’s obviously his opinion otherwise he wouldn’t have voiced it.  It’s obvious also IMO that he would do everything he could to rubbish any development in this case that wasn’t centred on the parents (like most sceptics would, also imo).

If his informant mentioned it as the PJ's opinion he would be agreeing, rather than thinking of the possibility himself.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 03, 2020, 10:49:55 AM
If his informant mentioned it as the PJ's opinion he would be agreeing, rather than thinking of the possibility himself.
lol.  Again, you seem to be suggesting a man with no ability to think for himself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 11:24:22 AM
I've already explained that they, quite rightly, followed up a 2nd tip from a member of the public during the 10 year anniversary appeal - so CB's name popping up twice independently. They had him under surveillance and they sifted through the phone records and they got a hit (of sorts). That coupled with his criminal record and there you have it - a suspect.
They then check the files and find that someone was dead in that apartment.
I understand the logic and it's totally justified to investigate as they have. The didn't set out to create a scapegoat, but I can also see why it's perceived that way.

I think hes only perceived as  a scapegoat to those who follow amaral's theories. I'm interested in this concrete evidence the germans have which amarals followers want to prematurely dismiss.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 03, 2020, 12:02:08 PM
I think hes only perceived as  a scapegoat to those who follow amaral's theories. I'm interested in this concrete evidence the germans have which amarals followers want to prematurely dismiss.
HCW walked back on 'concrete' a few weeks ago.
He means the phone ping, 2007 stylee.....
Now law enforcement, with a warrant (or not) can 'ping' your phone and narrow your location down to 50ft. The technology has moved on exponentially, as with just about everything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 03, 2020, 12:03:18 PM
I've already explained that they, quite rightly, followed up a 2nd tip from a member of the public during the 10 year anniversary appeal - so CB's name popping up twice independently. They had him under surveillance and they sifted through the phone records and they got a hit (of sorts). That coupled with his criminal record and there you have it - a suspect.
They then check the files and find that someone was dead in that apartment.
I understand the logic and it's totally justified to investigate as they have. The didn't set out to create a scapegoat, but I can also see why it's perceived that way.

It’s interesting the point you make about someone’s name popping up twice independently in an investigation  because isn’t that exactly what happened with David Payne...two witnesses, independently of each other, named Payne as possibly being involved in child abuse.

Now what are the chances of that ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 03, 2020, 12:03:59 PM
HCW walked back on 'concrete' a few weeks ago.
He means the phone ping, 2007 stylee.....
Now law enforcement, with a warrant (or not) can 'ping' your phone and narrow your location down to 50ft. The technology has moved on exponentially, as with just about everything.

nowdays police  can find things  on your phone even if you have wiped/cleared   everything off it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 12:04:33 PM
Someone told Amaral about the interest in Brueckner too; a year ago. The scapegoat theory was either his opinion or the opinion of whoever told him what was going on.

i can't see why anyone would take the scapegaot theory seriously. Why would the Germans want to supply a scapegoat to save the McCcanns. why would the Germans commit 100 men to a search to try and provide  a scapegaot ...this is amarals idea and is plain nonsense..imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 12:07:12 PM
HCW walked back on 'concrete' a few weeks ago.
He means the phone ping, 2007 stylee.....
Now law enforcement, with a warrant (or not) can 'ping' your phone and narrow your location down to 50ft. The technology has moved on exponentially, as with just about everything.

HCW has not walked back on concrete.....cite pplease...you don't seem to have a decent grasp of whats going on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 03, 2020, 12:15:29 PM
HCW has not walked back on concrete.....cite pplease...you don't seem to have a decent grasp of whats going on
...and you seem to be 6 weeks behind the curve again.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-could-still-alive-22187901?_ga=2.119897736.1298551117.1596453181-1611598486.1593178755 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-could-still-alive-22187901?_ga=2.119897736.1298551117.1596453181-1611598486.1593178755)

“It was only personal opinion and speculation.” Thanks for that Hans.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 12:30:50 PM
...and you seem to be 6 weeks behind the curve again.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-could-still-alive-22187901?_ga=2.119897736.1298551117.1596453181-1611598486.1593178755 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-could-still-alive-22187901?_ga=2.119897736.1298551117.1596453181-1611598486.1593178755)

“It was only personal opinion and speculation.” Thanks for that Hans.

He doesnt have proof she is dead but they have concrete evidence Breukner killed her. This is the !3 th june...HCW has since given an interview to Mark Saunokonoko repeating the concrete evidence claim..

This is from the same article you quoted..

Mr Wolters said: “We don’t try to speak ­because it’s not the right time. We don’t believe he will say he did it, so we have to tell him all our evidences.

“Then it’s a possibility he can speak with witnesses and say, ‘Tell the police it’s not true.’ We think we have 90 per cent evidence. If he knows what this is, he can try to change his story.



So HCW confirms what I have said re why the Germans are not questioning him yet...he also confirms CB does not know the evidence they have...so...it aint the phone pings as you seem to think
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 03, 2020, 12:40:37 PM
He doesnt have proof she is dead but they have concrete evidence Breukner killed her. This is the !3 th june...HCW has since given an interview to Mark Saunokonoko repeating the concrete evidence claim
Maybe you didn't read it. He started moonwalking a few days after he first said it.
He's referring to the phone ping and the fact that a dead person had been in 5a.
If, as you say, he had 'concrete evidence Breukner killed her', then he'd be arrested and charged.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 12:42:14 PM
Maybe you didn't read it. He started moonwalking a few days after he first said it.
He's referring to the phone ping and the fact that a dead person had been in 5a.
If, as you say, he had 'concrete evidence Breukner killed her', then he'd be arrested and charged.

Read the rest of my amended post...you are mistaken
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 12:43:43 PM
Maybe you didn't read it. He started moonwalking a few days after he first said it.
He's referring to the phone ping and the fact that a dead person had been in 5a.
If, as you say, he had 'concrete evidence Breukner killed her', then he'd be arrested and charged.

could you provide a cite for..."a dead person had been in 5a"....youve got that wrong too. There is absolutely no evidence of a dead person in 5a
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 03, 2020, 12:46:28 PM
i can't see why anyone would take the scapegaot theory seriously. Why would the Germans want to supply a scapegoat to save the McCcanns. why would the Germans commit 100 men to a search to try and provide  a scapegaot ...this is amarals idea and is plain nonsense..imo

In my opinion the main reason for discounting that Brueckner is a 'scapegoat' is that Amaral has been so keen to discount and discredit new developments in Madeleine's case from the word 'go'.
Along with asserting the Policia Judiciaria had already checked this out ?

Snip
Last year, Gonçalo Amaral had already anticipated the new suspect in Maddie McCann's disappearance, Christian Brueckner. The former PJ inspector said he was a scapegoat.
Gonçalo Amaral, a former inspector of the Judiciary Police who investigated the Maddie case, anticipated the new suspect last year. "He will probably be the scapegoat," said Amaral, referring to Brueckner.
At the time, in statements to the Nine.com.au Maddie podcast, the former inspector said that the English police were "preparing to end the investigation, with a German pedophile who is in prison now".

https://zap.aeiou.pt/novo-suspeito-caso-maddie-goncalo-amaral-328495
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 03, 2020, 12:48:13 PM
could you provide a cite for..."a dead person had been in 5a"....youve got that wrong too. There is absolutely no evidence of a dead person in 5a
So you now agree that HCW stated that his previous assertion was recanted as it was “......only personal opinion and speculation.”
As for the cite, a team of EVRD's were dispatched to the resort during the initial investigation, led by their handler Martin Grime. You should have a look at it.

edit: And HCW is too scared to ask him, just in case he changes his story when they present the evidence? Isn't that every police interview since the dawn of existence?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 12:51:56 PM
So you now agree that HCW stated that his previous assertion was recanted as it was “......only personal opinion and speculation.”
As for the cite, a team of EVRD's were dispatched to the resort during the initial investigation, led by their handler Martin Grime. You should have a look at it.

Which previous assertion was he referring to..I understand exactly what HCW said.

and again...if you think the dogs provided any evidence of a body in 5a you are sadly misguided. The role of the dogs is to help find evidence,...not provide it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 03, 2020, 12:57:33 PM
Which previous assertion was he referring to..I understand exactly what HCW said.

and again...if you think the dogs provided any evidence of a body in 5a you are sadly misguided. The role of the dogs is to help find evidence,...not provide it
I'm here presenting the facts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 01:03:31 PM
I'm here presenting the facts.

You havent presented any facts...just opinions.
HCW has refused to share his concrete evidence with the uk or portuguse or Uk police yet you think its the phone pings they already know about.

you think the dogs confirm  abody in 5a...they dont

I think you will find it's me providing facts
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 03, 2020, 01:10:40 PM
You havent presented any facts...just opinions.
HCW has refused to share his concrete evidence with the uk or portuguse or Uk police yet you think its the phone pings they already know about.

you think the dogs confirm  abody in 5a...they dont

I think you will find it's me providing facts
No, it is I with the facts, not you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 01:14:26 PM
No, it is I with the facts, not you.



I don't think you've provided any facts of any importance... I think you misunderstand what the facts are as I've pointed out in my posts...no personal insults.

You think Breukners concrete evidence is the phone pings and the dogs...i've expalined why taht cannot be true. I'm off now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on August 03, 2020, 01:24:59 PM
You havent presented any facts...just opinions.
HCW has refused to share his concrete evidence with the uk or portuguse or Uk police yet you think its the phone pings they already know about.

you think the dogs confirm  abody in 5a...they dont

I think you will find it's me providing facts

IMO the German police have visual digital evidence of the killing of Madeleine which also shows the presence of other people - hence the wording in their appeal. I believe this is the reason they do not wish to share the evidence with UK & Portuguese police at the current time.

From the BKA appeal...

"Furthermore, there is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left. We explicitly ask these persons to contact us and provide information."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 03, 2020, 01:40:58 PM
IMO the German police have visual digital evidence of the killing of Madeleine which also shows the presence of other people - hence the wording in their appeal. I believe this is the reason they do not wish to share the evidence with UK & Portuguese police at the current time.

From the BKA appeal...

"Furthermore, there is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left. We explicitly ask these persons to contact us and provide information."

Unfortunately I agree with that assessment, Misty.  I wish I could think of a different way of interpreting it but I can't.

I am glad the Germans are playing it close to their chest as being forewarned is forearmed ... and I believe we have seen that in operation with Amaral's protestations of last year which was possibly the result of the German investigation seeking information from the PJ on Brueckner and his associates.

I think when we eventually get sight of what the Germans have regarding Madeleine's case there is going to be a sharp intake of breath all round.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 03, 2020, 01:41:08 PM
You havent presented any facts...just opinions.
HCW has refused to share his concrete evidence with the uk or portuguse or Uk police yet you think its the phone pings they already know about.

you think the dogs confirm  abody in 5a...they dont

I think you will find it's me providing facts

HCW has refused to share his concrete evidence with the uk or portuguse or Uk police yet

What do you reckon then the 4 UK police sat at a desk asking for more money are doing then.

Seeing you know all the facts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 03, 2020, 01:47:08 PM
HCW has refused to share his concrete evidence with the uk or portuguse or Uk police yet

What do you reckon then the 4 UK police sat at a desk asking for more money are doing then.

Seeing you know all the facts.

Please note, Scotland Yard have never been refused requests for continued funding for Madeleine's case.  With a prime suspect with a known record like Brueckner's still to be investigated, I can see why the Scotland Yard funding has been continued.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 03, 2020, 01:52:04 PM
Please note, Scotland Yard have never been refused requests for continued funding for Madeleine's case.  With a prime suspect with a known record like Brueckner's still to be investigated, I can see why the Scotland Yard funding has been continued.

Why when at the moment the Germans are doing all the investigating and... not cooperating with SY.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 03, 2020, 01:55:12 PM
Why when at the moment the Germans are doing all the investigating and... not cooperating with SY.

              You know this for a fact ... how???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on August 03, 2020, 02:01:28 PM
Why when at the moment the Germans are doing all the investigating and... not cooperating with SY.

IMO there will be investigations continuing in both UK & other countries into activities of people on the dark web following the discovery of CB's memory card/USB stick stash.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 03, 2020, 02:11:52 PM
Unfortunately I agree with that assessment, Misty.  I wish I could think of a different way of interpreting it but I can't.

I am glad the Germans are playing it close to their chest as being forewarned is forearmed ... and I believe we have seen that in operation with Amaral's protestations of last year which was possibly the result of the German investigation seeking information from the PJ on Brueckner and his associates.

I think when we eventually get sight of what the Germans have regarding Madeleine's case there is going to be a sharp intake of breath all round.

have regarding Madeleine's case there is going to be a sharp intake of breath all round.

Well you shouldn't take so much notice of what they are saying ...then it wont come as such a shock
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 02:18:42 PM
HCW has refused to share his concrete evidence with the uk or portuguse or Uk police yet

What do you reckon then the 4 UK police sat at a desk asking for more money are doing then.

Seeing you know all the facts.

I think the answer is quite obvious. many posters said they were going nowhere...had nothing to investigate....they were wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 03, 2020, 02:31:14 PM
I think the answer is quite obvious. many posters said they were going nowhere...had nothing to investigate....they were wrong

So do you think SY need the money to follow a different lead then
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 03, 2020, 02:39:20 PM
have regarding Madeleine's case there is going to be a sharp intake of breath all round.

Well you shouldn't take so much notice of what they are saying ...then it wont come as such a shock

I'm not the one sweating in public and making ridiculous assertions to anyone who will listen, am I?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 03, 2020, 02:44:18 PM
I'm not the one sweating in public and making ridiculous assertions to anyone who will listen, am I?
How do we know?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 03, 2020, 02:45:49 PM
IMO there will be investigations continuing in both UK & other countries into activities of people on the dark web following the discovery of CB's memory card/USB stick stash.

I think there is little doubt that this is an enormous case and one which is going to take a lot of time and effort, therefore money to address.

While I don't class Brueckner as a 'scapegoat'.  I think the case as a whole is much bigger than him.  I see him as a very small cog in a very large machine.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 03, 2020, 03:37:07 PM
In my opinion the main reason for discounting that Brueckner is a 'scapegoat' is that Amaral has been so keen to discount and discredit new developments in Madeleine's case from the word 'go'.
Along with asserting the Policia Judiciaria had already checked this out ?

Snip
Last year, Gonçalo Amaral had already anticipated the new suspect in Maddie McCann's disappearance, Christian Brueckner. The former PJ inspector said he was a scapegoat.
Gonçalo Amaral, a former inspector of the Judiciary Police who investigated the Maddie case, anticipated the new suspect last year. "He will probably be the scapegoat," said Amaral, referring to Brueckner.
At the time, in statements to the Nine.com.au Maddie podcast, the former inspector said that the English police were "preparing to end the investigation, with a German pedophile who is in prison now".

https://zap.aeiou.pt/novo-suspeito-caso-maddie-goncalo-amaral-328495

So,   there were the Police doing their investigation,  not giving a running commentary and trying to keep things very quiet and there was Amaral 'blah blah blah'   Why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 03, 2020, 03:50:07 PM
I'm not the one sweating in public and making ridiculous assertions to anyone who will listen, am I?

Well who is then ...because it isn't me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 03, 2020, 03:58:16 PM
IMO the German police have visual digital evidence of the killing of Madeleine which also shows the presence of other people - hence the wording in their appeal. I believe this is the reason they do not wish to share the evidence with UK & Portuguese police at the current time.

From the BKA appeal...

"Furthermore, there is reason to assume that there are other persons, apart from the suspect, who have concrete knowledge of the course of the crime and maybe also of the place where the body was left. We explicitly ask these persons to contact us and provide information."


yet posters here want to think its the phone pings...they obvioulsy have a lot...lot more
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 03, 2020, 04:09:23 PM

yet posters here want to think its the phone pings...they obvioulsy have a lot...lot more
If they had a 'lot, lot more', he'd have been charged. If they had even a wee bit more they wouldn't have to ask the public for help.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 03, 2020, 04:14:40 PM
If they had a 'lot, lot more', he'd have been charged. If they had even a wee bit more they wouldn't have to ask the public for help.
Why not?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on August 03, 2020, 05:25:19 PM
IMO there will be investigations continuing in both UK & other countries into activities of people on the dark web following the discovery of CB's memory card/USB stick stash.

Several countries appear to be checking their own cold cases for potential links - and it's these that would be pooled (hopefully without further half-baked leaks for Amaral to blurt out to the entire world).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on August 03, 2020, 11:53:11 PM
If they had a 'lot, lot more', he'd have been charged. If they had even a wee bit more they wouldn't have to ask the public for help.

Not necessarily. The levels of proof for murder in Germany are so high. They need a body for a start. And as Wolters said, they have 'no body nor parts of the body'. Interesting wording I may add.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 04, 2020, 03:58:54 AM

I don't believe the Germans have decided to get involved so that they can provide  a scapegoat ....another conspiracy too far I think. CB will be judged on the evidence....and we have to wait to know exactly what that is.

You have misunderstood my post, Dave.

What I think is that the huge organisation behind Madeleines abduction have decided to make Bruckner their scapegoat … not, as you think I meant, the German Police.

And I think that this huge organisation has carefully planned the accusations, even to possibly prematurely sending out false indicators that Bruckner did it.  At the same time this undermines OG and SY, and this is what it is intended to do

SY very obviously, imo, think that Madeleine is not dead, but their secrecy has been so tight that they don't want to share their findings with The German police, nor possibly with the PJ. Well done SY for fielding such a tight ship.  8@??)(

I am thinking that Bruckner used to work for them in the drug/narcotics scene and now that he has been caught on drugs charges, he is worthless to them.  Although he was not a top bod in the organisation, neither was he lowly … one of many middle men … and easy to dispose of.   They may even have set him up to be caught, if they wanted him to be fall guy.   No man is going to oppose the DRUG BARONS. 

See what happened to :


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326281/Tortured-Briton-James-Ross-mend-13-day-ordeal-Portugal.html
In Portugal, British bloke owing money to Cartel had 2 fingers, three toes and a testicle and an ear chopped off before being chained to a heavy weight.  Fortunately for him, the vehicle carrying him had an accident en route to the lake where they were going to dump him..  Saved but I fear mentally in fear for the rest of his life, minus fingers , toes and an ear and a testicle

and

 shoebat.com/2018/06/18/mexican-drug-cartel-saws-of-feet-and-arms-of...
In Mexico guy has legs sawn of and arms sawn off whilst completely conscious.


You don't mess with the drug Cartels.

and


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 04, 2020, 04:12:07 AM
I think hes only perceived as  a scapegoat to those who follow amaral's theories. I'm interested in this concrete evidence the germans have which amarals followers want to prematurely dismiss.

I don't follow Amarals theories at all.  I distrust the man; he has told too many lies.

What is more is that I wonder just how concrete
You have misunderstood my post, Dave.

What I think is that the huge organisation behind Madeleines abduction have decided to make Bruckner their scapegoat … not, as you think I meant, the German Police.

And I think that this huge organisation has carefully planned the accusations, even to possibly prematurely sending out false indicators that Bruckner did it.  At the same time this undermines OG and SY, and this is what it is intended to do

SY very obviously, imo, think that Madeleine is not dead, but their secrecy has been so tight that they don't want to share their findings with The German police, nor possibly with the PJ. Well done SY for fielding such a tight ship.  8@??)(

I am thinking that Bruckner used to work for them in the drug/narcotics scene and now that he has been caught on drugs charges, he is worthless to them.  Although he was not a top bod in the organisation, neither was he lowly … one of many middle men … and easy to dispose of.   They may even have set him up to be caught, if they wanted him to be fall guy.   No man is going to oppose the DRUG BARONS.  See what happened to https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfbeb8
and to

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 04, 2020, 01:04:07 PM
I've been puzzling that myself, Sadie.

As well as the rubbishing of Brueckner's appearance even down to altering his photograph with the addition of dreadlocks.

In my opinion Amaral doesn't do anything without a reason beneficial to Amaral.  So what on earth is behind his first intervention which led to the outing of Brueckner.
What is behind the 'information' he pushed about the cartoon drawings on the van and why muddy the water with the Brueckner in dreads intervention?

I daresay all will be revealed in the fullness of time.

As well as the rubbishing of Brueckner's appearance even down to altering his photograph with the addition of dreadlocks.

Who altered his appearance to dreadlocks... seems it is you blaming GA.

Makes you wonder as well why medical records of maddie were not given to PJ


In an analysis of the already published portrait of the German suspect Christian Brueckner, the ex-inspector has no doubts: “it cannot be”. Gonçalo Amaral explained that the fact is that the German had short hair at the time of Maddie’s disappearance and the testimonies account for long hair.

“It’s all cheating,” stressed the ex-PJ inspector, who also hypothesized that the German police were being manipulated by the English police.

http://www.world-today-news.com/portugal-is-in-a-position-to-solve-the-maddie-case-goncalo-amaral-defends-pj-and-mp-portugal-3/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on August 04, 2020, 02:22:42 PM
So now he's suddenly realised that Christian B didn't have dreadlocks after all after splashing a photomontage of him a week or so ago?

When in a hole...

If he really wanted to find out the truth, why doesn't he just let the police forces active on the case get on with their enquiries?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 04, 2020, 02:30:20 PM
So now he's suddenly realised that Christian B didn't have dreadlocks after all after splashing a photomontage of him a week or so ago?

When in a hole...

If he really wanted to find out the truth, why doesn't he just let the police forces active on the case get on with their enquiries?

How is he hindering them?

Is it him that's stopping the German police from arresting Brueckner?

I suppose it has to be his fault some how doesn't it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 04, 2020, 02:40:46 PM
As well as the rubbishing of Brueckner's appearance even down to altering his photograph with the addition of dreadlocks.

Who altered his appearance to dreadlocks... seems it is you blaming GA.

Makes you wonder as well why medical records of maddie were not given to PJ


In an analysis of the already published portrait of the German suspect Christian Brueckner, the ex-inspector has no doubts: “it cannot be”. Gonçalo Amaral explained that the fact is that the German had short hair at the time of Maddie’s disappearance and the testimonies account for long hair.

“It’s all cheating,” stressed the ex-PJ inspector, who also hypothesized that the German police were being manipulated by the English police.

http://www.world-today-news.com/portugal-is-in-a-position-to-solve-the-maddie-case-goncalo-amaral-defends-pj-and-mp-portugal-3/

I am incredulous at the level of denial regarding the Brueckner photograph you are exhibiting in the face of the volume of proof from a variety of sources in existence regarding it .

Quite frankly it is beyond my comprehension.


Snip

The former coordinator of the Portimão PJ points out that the robot portraits released by the authorities at the time of the crime show a suspect with short hair, a fact that appears to be innocent for Christian Bruecker, who in 2007 would have long hair behind his back.

"In 2007 there are people who claim that his figure is not with short hair. He looked like a hippie and wore long hair behind his back. And the police know it," he said.

To consolidate his statements, Gonçalo Amaral himself decided to present a reconstruction of what the German would look like in the year that Maddie disappeared. Using an image of Brueckner in 2006, a year before Maddie's disappearance, and using an image manipulation program, the former PJ presented a photomontage of the suspect with long hair. https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-mostra-retrato-robo-de-suspeito-do-suspeito-do-caso-maddie-em-2007-que-desmente-versao-alema
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 04, 2020, 03:14:08 PM
I am incredulous at the level of denial regarding the Brueckner photograph you are exhibiting in the face of the volume of proof from a variety of sources in existence regarding it .

Quite frankly it is beyond my comprehension.


Snip

The former coordinator of the Portimão PJ points out that the robot portraits released by the authorities at the time of the crime show a suspect with short hair, a fact that appears to be innocent for Christian Bruecker, who in 2007 would have long hair behind his back.

"In 2007 there are people who claim that his figure is not with short hair. He looked like a hippie and wore long hair behind his back. And the police know it," he said.

To consolidate his statements, Gonçalo Amaral himself decided to present a reconstruction of what the German would look like in the year that Maddie disappeared. Using an image of Brueckner in 2006, a year before Maddie's disappearance, and using an image manipulation program, the former PJ presented a photomontage of the suspect with long hair. https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-mostra-retrato-robo-de-suspeito-do-suspeito-do-caso-maddie-em-2007-que-desmente-versao-alema


Your quote is from a newspaper.

mine is from the actual interveiw

Former Judicial Police Inspector Gonçalo Amaral said this Saturday in an interview with CMTV that “nothing has been proven” so far in the case of the disappearance of Maddie from Praia da Luz in May 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 04, 2020, 03:21:17 PM

Your quote is from a newspaper.

mine is from the actual interveiw

Former Judicial Police Inspector Gonçalo Amaral said this Saturday in an interview with CMTV that “nothing has been proven” so far in the case of the disappearance of Maddie from Praia da Luz in May 2007.

your quote is from a convicted liar
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 04, 2020, 04:57:15 PM
your quote is from a convicted liar

Now Now

At least they do something about it in Portugal.

Hate to burst your bubble D -  of our lot....gilford 4 just being one of many cases right here in UK

I also believe were beaten to pulp.......Seems to make GA look like a kitten.


owever, notwithstanding the accumulated forensic evidence in relation to the various bombings that had taken place in 1974-5 which showed that Guildford and Woolwich were not unique and provided idiosyncratic forensic evidence to tie the offences to the ASU, the police and the prosecution (leading counsel was Sir Michael Havers, the Attorney General) deliberately failed to disclose the evidence which would show not only that the Guildford Four were not guilty of the offences they had been convicted of but that the offences committed by the ASU predated and postdated the arrest of the Guildford Four. That evidence was principally forensic in nature but also derived from fingerprint evidence connected with safe houses occupied by the ASU.



https://www.thejusticegap.com/guildford-four-how-the-innocent-were-framed-and-the-truth-buried/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 04, 2020, 05:04:30 PM
Now Now

At least they do something about it in Portugal.

Hate to burst your bubble D -  of our lot....gilford 4 just being one of many cases right here in UK

I also believe were beaten to pulp.......Seems to make GA look like a kitten.


owever, notwithstanding the accumulated forensic evidence in relation to the various bombings that had taken place in 1974-5 which showed that Guildford and Woolwich were not unique and provided idiosyncratic forensic evidence to tie the offences to the ASU, the police and the prosecution (leading counsel was Sir Michael Havers, the Attorney General) deliberately failed to disclose the evidence which would show not only that the Guildford Four were not guilty of the offences they had been convicted of but that the offences committed by the ASU predated and postdated the arrest of the Guildford Four. That evidence was principally forensic in nature but also derived from fingerprint evidence connected with safe houses occupied by the ASU.



https://www.thejusticegap.com/guildford-four-how-the-innocent-were-framed-and-the-truth-buried/

Im just pointing out that your cite come sfrom  a convicted liar. The Guildford 4 was many years ago and whilst not defending the police ...feelings were running high and the police thouight they were mass murderers....It wouldnt and shouldnt happen now
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 04, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
Im just pointing out that your cite come sfrom  a convicted liar. The Guildford 4 was many years ago and whilst not defending the police ...feelings were running high and the police thouight they were mass murderers....It wouldnt and shouldnt happen now

Well in my opinion you can bet your life it does... without going of topic Ill leave it at that.

My point was to you GA was convicted ....in UK they seem to get away with it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 04, 2020, 05:17:45 PM
Well in my opinion you can bet your life it does... without going of topic Ill leave it at that.

My point was to you GA was convicted ....in UK they seem to get away with it.

I dont agree ...but one thing we can agree on....on topic... is that amaral is  a convisted liar .....I don't beleive a word he says
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on August 04, 2020, 05:21:18 PM
How is he hindering them?

Is it him that's stopping the German police from arresting Brueckner?

I suppose it has to be his fault some how doesn't it.

The German and UK police have appealed for witnesses. He's rubbishing them on TV and in the CdM. How is he helping?

Why doesn't he just shut up and let the investigation run its course?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 04, 2020, 06:34:52 PM
The German and UK police have appealed for witnesses. He's rubbishing them on TV and in the CdM. How is he helping?

Why doesn't he just shut up and let the investigation run its course?
I thought he was irrelevant and desperate?
A memorandum went round, I'm sure of it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on August 04, 2020, 06:55:34 PM
I am incredulous at the level of denial regarding the Brueckner photograph you are exhibiting in the face of the volume of proof from a variety of sources in existence regarding it .

Quite frankly it is beyond my comprehension.


Snip

The former coordinator of the Portimão PJ points out that the robot portraits released by the authorities at the time of the crime show a suspect with short hair, a fact that appears to be innocent for Christian Bruecker, who in 2007 would have long hair behind his back.

"In 2007 there are people who claim that his figure is not with short hair. He looked like a hippie and wore long hair behind his back. And the police know it," he said.

To consolidate his statements, Gonçalo Amaral himself decided to present a reconstruction of what the German would look like in the year that Maddie disappeared. Using an image of Brueckner in 2006, a year before Maddie's disappearance, and using an image manipulation program, the former PJ presented a photomontage of the suspect with long hair. https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-mostra-retrato-robo-de-suspeito-do-suspeito-do-caso-maddie-em-2007-que-desmente-versao-alema

Either he's lost the plot or I have...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 04, 2020, 08:15:58 PM
The German and UK police have appealed for witnesses. He's rubbishing them on TV and in the CdM. How is he helping?

Why doesn't he just shut up and let the investigation run its course?


In what way does he have an influence?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 04, 2020, 08:19:44 PM

In what way does he have an influence?

He doesn't.  He only thinks he has.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 04, 2020, 08:21:36 PM

In what way does he have an influence?
Through his name, his former position and reputation for being anti-McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 04, 2020, 08:23:55 PM
Through his name, his former position and reputation for being anti-McCann.

But who do you think he influences? his detractors on here but apart from that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 04, 2020, 08:26:31 PM
But who do you think he influences? his detractors on here but apart from that?
The mere fact he is interviewed by the media suggests to me his influence is wider than just "his detractors on here". 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 04, 2020, 08:27:04 PM
Through his name, his former position and reputation for being anti-McCann.
The media think he has influence, that's why they keep paying him to discuss the case.
And he keeps the till ringing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 04, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
The mere fact he is interviewed by the media suggests to me his influence is wider than just "his detractors on here".

Perhaps he's not so irrelevant as some would wish.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on August 04, 2020, 09:55:24 PM
The media think he has influence, that's why they keep paying him to discuss the case.
And he keeps the till ringing.

And quite possibly his own.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 04, 2020, 10:49:52 PM
And quite possibly his own.

Portugal allows this so ultimately it is only their problem.

Meanwhile I can say whatever I like about The Portuguese Justice System and Amaral in particuliar.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 04, 2020, 10:53:34 PM

As it happens, I think the whole thing stinks of corruption.  And not least Amaral himself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 09:55:54 AM
Amaral was speaking out about the suspect last year,  when the Police hadn't even named him.  Why?   Why start running down the Police when they were trying to investigate,  keeping things quiet.  Who told him?  Then it was the van,  then the long hair.   He sounds as if he is desperately  trying to stop CB being investigated.   Why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 05, 2020, 10:38:53 AM
Amaral was speaking out about the suspect last year,  when the Police hadn't even named him.  Why?   Why start running down the Police when they were trying to investigate,  keeping things quiet.  Who told him?  Then it was the van,  then the long hair.   He sounds as if he is desperately  trying to stop CB being investigated.   Why?

He's as entitled to share his thoughts as all those British ex policemen who have shared theirs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 05, 2020, 10:47:45 AM
He's as entitled to share his thoughts as all those British ex policemen who have shared theirs.

he is not entitled to make libellous claims
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 11:01:35 AM
I dont agree ...but one thing we can agree on....on topic... is that amaral is  aconvisted liar .....I don't beleive a word he says

Well what is going on here..you talk about GA telling lies well I know what book I would rather believe.


Anyone can feel free to post a link to where in the PJ files this was documented.





MADELEINE MCCANN's mother, Kate, made a horror discovery while combing through Portuguese police files after her daughter disappeared, her book revealed.

By Callum Hoare
PUBLISHED: 10:00, Mon, Aug 3, 2020 | UPDATED: 12:09, Mon, Aug 3, 2020
 
It wasn’t until a year later, when I was combing through the Portuguese police files, that I discovered that the note requesting our block booking was written in a staff message book, which sat on a desk at the pool reception for most of the day. This book was by definition accessible to all staff and, albeit unintentionally, probably to guests and visitors, too. To my horror, I saw that, no doubt in all innocence and simply to explain why she was bending the rules a bit, the receptionist had added the reason for our request: we wanted to eat close to our apartments as we were leaving our young children alone there and checking on them intermittently.’


kmcs book IMO was full of excuses trying to dot the i and crossing the t to back up abduction, not about Maddie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 05, 2020, 11:24:11 AM
Well what is going on here..you talk about GA telling lies well I know what book I would rather believe.


Anyone can feel free to post a link to where in the PJ files this was documented.





MADELEINE MCCANN's mother, Kate, made a horror discovery while combing through Portuguese police files after her daughter disappeared, her book revealed.

By Callum Hoare
PUBLISHED: 10:00, Mon, Aug 3, 2020 | UPDATED: 12:09, Mon, Aug 3, 2020
 
It wasn’t until a year later, when I was combing through the Portuguese police files, that I discovered that the note requesting our block booking was written in a staff message book, which sat on a desk at the pool reception for most of the day. This book was by definition accessible to all staff and, albeit unintentionally, probably to guests and visitors, too. To my horror, I saw that, no doubt in all innocence and simply to explain why she was bending the rules a bit, the receptionist had added the reason for our request: we wanted to eat close to our apartments as we were leaving our young children alone there and checking on them intermittently.’


kmcs book IMO was full of excuses trying to dot the i and crossing the t to back up abduction, not about Maddie.

I'd like to see where that can be found.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 11:52:39 AM
He's as entitled to share his thoughts as all those British ex policemen who have shared theirs.

The Police were keeping it quiet,   why announce the suspect when the Police were trying to put together their investigation against this man.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 12:11:03 PM
The Police were keeping it quiet,   why announce the suspect when the Police were trying to put together their investigation against this man.

Why aren't the media keeping it quit then if that's the case?

While the police are keeping it quit to investigate this man.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 12:28:57 PM
Why aren't the media keeping it quit then if that's the case?

While the police are keeping it quit to investigate this man.

The Police were keeping it quiet last year.   This year they appealed for information regarding CB.   Amaral was telling the public all about the suspect last year.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 12:30:17 PM
I'd like to see where that can be found.

Is it possible that the McCann's lawyers who received 20,000 pages of Police files,  had more information than the DVD which was released to the public?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 12:31:49 PM
The Police were keeping it quiet last year.   This year they appealed for information regarding CB.   Amaral was telling the public all about the suspect last year.

Yes a German suspect ...he didn't say who it was apart from him being a scapegoat.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 05, 2020, 12:42:46 PM
Yes a German suspect ...he didn't say who it was apart from him being a scapegoat.

But he said who it was not.  Which narrowed the field by more than a little.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 05, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
But he said who it was not.  Which narrowed the field by more than a little.

Did any media outlets name Christian Brueckner prior to the German Prosecutors announcement?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 12:53:01 PM
But he said who it was not.  Which narrowed the field by more than a little.

How do you work that one out....no one knew CB excisted?

Until it was splashed all over the news/media on June 3rd over 2 months ago, and every day since

You seem content to blame everything on GA tunnel vision he is to blame.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 01:08:02 PM
Yes a German suspect ...he didn't say who it was apart from him being a scapegoat.

Why say he was a 'scapegoat'  last year before anyone knew anything about CB?   Why did he feel he had to get in there and make his point?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 05, 2020, 01:40:06 PM
Is it possible that the McCann's lawyers who received 20,000 pages of Police files,  had more information than the DVD which was released to the public?

Did they get 20,000 pages? Is that a fact or a rumour?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 01:46:06 PM
Why say he was a 'scapegoat'  last year before anyone knew anything about CB?   Why did he feel he had to get in there and make his point?

Well why shouldn't he.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 01:47:34 PM
Is it possible that the McCann's lawyers who received 20,000 pages of Police files,  had more information than the DVD which was released to the public?

No, unless you can prove otherwise.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 05, 2020, 01:51:37 PM
No, unless you can prove otherwise.

No...it's possible. That is a fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 05, 2020, 01:54:53 PM
No...it's possible. That is a fact.

Its possible Madeleine was not abducted by a stranger,thats a fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 05, 2020, 02:38:34 PM
Its possible Madeleine was not abducted by a stranger,thats a fact.

Of course it's possible...but unlikely imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 02:44:28 PM
No, unless you can prove otherwise.

Can you prove they didn't?.   It is more than likely the Lawyers for the McCann's were given more information than the general public.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 02:47:49 PM
Can you prove they didn't?.   It is more than likely the Lawyers for the McCann's were given more information than the general public.

You are the one disputing it L

You show me where that is then ....not more than likely the fact is it wasn't.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 03:00:08 PM
You are the one disputing it L

You show me where that is then ....not more than likely the fact is it wasn't.


Letter from lawyers representing British police forces requesting that certain documentation from UK police files be withheld from the DVD for public release.

The McCann's received the documentation from the British Police as well as from the Portuguese Police.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 03:22:05 PM
You are the one disputing it L

You show me where that is then ....not more than likely the fact is it wasn't.


You are disputing whether Kate saw the message the receptionist wrote in the staff book.

The official case file released to the public on DVD comprised 11,223 pages of documents in four parts: The main case file (Processo: 17 volumes, 4,717 pages) supported by-the file of sightings around the world (Apenso 5: 14 volumes, 2,550 pages), other information appendices (Outro Apensos: 21 volumes, 3,407 pages) and


The McCann's lawyers had 20,000 documents.   

Just because it is not in the Police files that were released to the public does not mean it doesn't exist.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 05, 2020, 03:23:51 PM
'While we were away, there was a hearing in the High Court relating to an application we had made on Madeleine’s behalf for access to all the information held by Leicestershire police relating to her case. As nobody else was now searching for her, we wanted our own investigators to have the chance to check this material for any relevant leads. Naively, I’d thought a court order would be seen by the police, who were always telling us their hands were tied, as a way of helping us without upsetting their Portuguese counterparts. If they were required by law to pass us this information, surely the PJ would need to accept that? I couldn’t have been more wrong. The UK authorities fought our application tooth and nail. I was shocked by the force of their opposition and the lengths to which they seemed prepared to go to deny us this access in these circumstances.
The British police had their reasons, of course, among them the investigative primacy they were obliged to concede to the Portuguese and the concern that being in possession of information otherwise known only to the police and the perpetrator might compromise Gerry and me, since at this point we were still arguidos. All of this the assistant chief constable for Leicestershire made clear in a statement written for the court. He had come out to Portugal shortly after Madeleine’s abduction and had seen us at our most grief-stricken, and yet he felt able to comment of Gerry and me in this statement: ‘While one or both of them may be innocent, there is no clear evidence that eliminates them from involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance.’ We were completely staggered. No evidence to eliminate us? Whether or not it was his intention, that line stuck in our heads as ‘guilty until proven innocent’.
Given the extreme opposition we faced, we realised this was a battle we weren’t going to win. Reluctantly, we made a tactical decision to accept a smaller amount of information. Having to withdraw was quite galling, especially as the eighty-one items disclosed to us included trivial details that our family had passed on to the police in the first place.

Madeleine
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 03:33:53 PM

You are disputing whether Kate saw the message the receptionist wrote in the staff book.

The official case file released to the public on DVD comprised 11,223 pages of documents in four parts: The main case file (Processo: 17 volumes, 4,717 pages) supported by-the file of sightings around the world (Apenso 5: 14 volumes, 2,550 pages), other information appendices (Outro Apensos: 21 volumes, 3,407 pages) and


The McCann's lawyers had 20,000 documents.   

Just because it is not in the Police files that were released to the public does not mean it doesn't exist.

LOL FGS ...it doesn't mean it does neither.

Why would they tell the receptionist they were all leaving there children on there own..what could they do about it.

Apart from offering a baby sitter of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 03:53:47 PM
LOL FGS ...it doesn't mean it does neither.

Why would they tell the receptionist they were all leaving there children on there own..what could they do about it.

Apart from offering a baby sitter of course.

To explain the block booking FGS
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 03:57:28 PM
Did they get 20,000 pages? Is that a fact or a rumour?


news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7535209.stm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 05, 2020, 04:05:50 PM
LOL FGS ...it doesn't mean it does neither.

Why would they tell the receptionist they were all leaving there children on there own..what could they do about it.

Apart from offering a baby sitter of course.

Do you realise block bookings were not allowed..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 04:13:26 PM
To explain the block booking FGS

MADELEINE MCCANN's mother, Kate, made a shock discovery while combing through Portuguese police files after her daughter disappeared, her book revealed.

There were no 'different' files available to them, unless you can show otherwise L
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 05, 2020, 04:14:58 PM
MADELEINE MCCANN's mother, Kate, made a shock discovery while combing through Portuguese police files after her daughter disappeared, her book revealed.

There were no 'different' files available to them, unless you can show otherwise L

Lace has shown otherwise
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 05:51:19 PM
Lace has shown otherwise

Is it possible that the McCann's lawyers who received 20,000 pages of Police files,  had more information than the DVD which was released to the public?


No, she hasn't shown it was possible the mccs lawyer got 20.000 pages she asked was it possible. not that they did
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 05, 2020, 05:53:24 PM
Is it possible that the McCann's lawyers who received 20,000 pages of Police files,  had more information than the DVD which was released to the public?


No, she hasn't shown it was possible the mccs lawyer got 20.000 pages she asked was it possible. not that they did

she has shown they received extra information that wasnt in the files
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 05, 2020, 05:56:33 PM
she has shown they received extra information that wasnt in the files

Can you show me where apart from just saying so. she wrote.



Is it possible that the McCann's lawyers who received 20,000 pages of Police files,  had more information than the DVD which was released to the public?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 05, 2020, 06:04:22 PM
MADELEINE MCCANN's mother, Kate, made a shock discovery while combing through Portuguese police files after her daughter disappeared, her book revealed.

There were no 'different' files available to them, unless you can show otherwise L


news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7535209.stm

The McCann's and their lawyers received 20,000 documents.   The  DVD  had 11,223 documents it was the 11,223 documents that were revealed to the general public.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 05, 2020, 06:04:42 PM
Can you show me where apart from just saying so. she wrote.



Is it possible that the McCann's lawyers who received 20,000 pages of Police files,  had more information than the DVD which was released to the public?

Of corse its possible as all the files were not released to the public
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 05, 2020, 06:44:45 PM

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7535209.stm

The McCann's and their lawyers received 20,000 documents.   The  DVD  had 11,223 documents it was the 11,223 documents that were revealed to the general public.

I'm not convinced, but thank you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 05, 2020, 06:49:19 PM
I'm not convinced, but thank you.

It's of no importance whatsoever you aren't convinced
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 05, 2020, 08:59:30 PM
Of course it's possible...but unlikely imo
Barrier said "Its possible Madeleine was not abducted by a stranger,thats a fact."
So if "not abduction by a stranger" is "unlikely" what is it you are thinking is most likely?

Surely it must be the opposite: "abduction by a stranger".   It is the use of the negative in the sentence that throws me.

If Madeleine was not abducted, she couldn't be abducted by a stranger or an aquaintance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 05, 2020, 09:03:20 PM
So if abduction by a stranger is "unlikely" what is it you are thinking is most likely?
Read the posts again..it's woke and wandered that's very unlikely
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 05, 2020, 09:04:35 PM
LOL FGS ...it doesn't mean it does neither.

Why would they tell the receptionist they were all leaving there children on there own..what could they do about it.

Apart from offering a baby sitter of course.
They could have said we don't want your booking.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 05, 2020, 09:16:22 PM
Read the posts again..it's woke and wandered that's very unlikely
Barrier said "Its possible Madeleine was not abducted by a stranger,thats a fact."
So if "not abduction by a stranger" is "unlikely" what is it you are thinking is most likely?

Surely it must be the opposite: "abduction by a stranger".   It is the use of the negative in the sentence that throws me.

If Madeleine was not abducted, she couldn't be abducted by a stranger or an aquaintance.

Woke and wandered affects the position from where she could be abducted from.   We've been through these arguments before and you were wrong then and still are, even more so now that CB is a possible abductor IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 05, 2020, 09:19:28 PM
Barrier said "Its possible Madeleine was not abducted by a stranger,thats a fact."
So if "not abduction by a stranger" is "unlikely" what is it you are thinking is most likely?

Surely it must be the opposite: "abduction by a stranger".   It is the use of the negative in the sentence that throws me.

If Madeleine was not abducted, she couldn't be abducted by a stranger or an aquaintance.

Woke and wandered affects the position from where she could be abducted from.   We've been through these arguments before and you were wrong then and still are, even more so now that CB is a possible abductor IMO.
It's quite simple..I do not agree with barrier...I think stranger abduction is by far the most likely...based on the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 05, 2020, 09:25:14 PM
It's quite simple..I do not agree with barrier...I think stranger abduction is by far the most likely...based on the evidence
But are you still thinking the stranger had to enter the apartment to get to the child?  I keep getting the feeling you depend on the statement that "woke and wandered was unlikely".  But IMO you have never defined why it is unlikely other than that the PJ say so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 05, 2020, 11:11:17 PM
As well as the rubbishing of Brueckner's appearance even down to altering his photograph with the addition of dreadlocks.

Who altered his appearance to dreadlocks... seems it is you blaming GA.

Makes you wonder as well why medical records of maddie were not given to PJ


In an analysis of the already published portrait of the German suspect Christian Brueckner, the ex-inspector has no doubts: “it cannot be”. Gonçalo Amaral explained that the fact is that the German had short hair at the time of Maddie’s disappearance and the testimonies account for long hair.

“It’s all cheating,” stressed the ex-PJ inspector, who also hypothesized that the German police were being manipulated by the English police.

http://www.world-today-news.com/portugal-is-in-a-position-to-solve-the-maddie-case-goncalo-amaral-defends-pj-and-mp-portugal-3/

Have you forgotten Bruckner had a cache of wigs ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 06, 2020, 12:21:02 AM
Why say he was a 'scapegoat'  last year before anyone knew anything about CB?   Why did he feel he had to get in there and make his point?

Put the remark in context. Amaral was being asked to comment on headlines like the one below...last year.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/madeleine-mccann-suspect-martin-ney-paedophile-police-investigation-a8900256.html

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 06, 2020, 12:23:15 AM
Of corse its possible as all the files were not released to the public

All the files weren’t released however a list of all the files were.....and there was no mention of the type of note Kate claimed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 06, 2020, 05:00:36 AM
Have you forgotten Bruckner had a cache of wigs ?
Are you suggesting he could have been wearing a wig on the night?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 06, 2020, 07:59:43 AM
Are you suggesting he could have been wearing a wig on the night?

There is an account that on one occasion he claimed to have legged it naked from the scene of one crime.  Wigs were found in one of his residences.
Why would it be preposterous for him to use a disguise on the off chance he might be seen and identified? he is known to be a burglar.


Bald burglar who used selection of wigs to try to disguise himself jailed for 15 years https://uk.news.yahoo.com/burglar-bald-wigs-disguise-jailed-080442762.html

Burglar Wears Underpants Mask, Find Out Safe Is Too Heavy To Steal – Dumb Criminal Of The Day | https://999thepoint.com/burglar-wears-underpants-mask-find-out-safe-is-too-heavy-to-steal-dumb-criminal-of-the-day/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

Burglar wears clear plastic wrapper as 'disguise' to rob GameStop https://www.local10.com/news/2018/04/16/burglar-wears-clear-plastic-wrapper-as-disguise-to-rob-gamestop/

Mark of stupidity: Burglary suspects drew masks and beards on their faces using permanent marker pen https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223724/Burglars-Matthew-Allan-McNelly-Joey-Lee-Miller-drew-masks-beards-faces-using-permanent-marker-pen.html

'Professional burglar' scarpered from police wearing a wig after going on the run
https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article17605559.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/1_Wigman.jpg

Vic cat burglar wore wig, stole jewellery https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/5584828/vic-cat-burglar-wore-wig-stole-jewellery/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 06, 2020, 08:39:22 AM
Some posters are making a lot about the SC statement that the McCanns havent been cleared. Thinking about it the only body who could say the McCanns are no longer persons of interest is the PJ and by doing so would have to admit what an almighty cock up the initial investigation was. Having said that P D Carmo  has said the mcCanns are not suspects so in effect has cleared them which would mean the SC were just palin wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 06, 2020, 08:53:29 AM
absolutely
They're not not suspects.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 06, 2020, 08:56:51 AM
They're not not suspects.
They are not suspects. Period.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 06, 2020, 09:00:31 AM
There is an account that on one occasion he claimed to have legged it naked from the scene of one crime.  Wigs were found in one of his residences.
Why would it be preposterous for him to use a disguise on the off chance he might be seen and identified? he is known to be a burglar.


Bald burglar who used selection of wigs to try to disguise himself jailed for 15 years https://uk.news.yahoo.com/burglar-bald-wigs-disguise-jailed-080442762.html

Burglar Wears Underpants Mask, Find Out Safe Is Too Heavy To Steal – Dumb Criminal Of The Day | https://999thepoint.com/burglar-wears-underpants-mask-find-out-safe-is-too-heavy-to-steal-dumb-criminal-of-the-day/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

Burglar wears clear plastic wrapper as 'disguise' to rob GameStop https://www.local10.com/news/2018/04/16/burglar-wears-clear-plastic-wrapper-as-disguise-to-rob-gamestop/

Mark of stupidity: Burglary suspects drew masks and beards on their faces using permanent marker pen https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223724/Burglars-Matthew-Allan-McNelly-Joey-Lee-Miller-drew-masks-beards-faces-using-permanent-marker-pen.html

'Professional burglar' scarpered from police wearing a wig after going on the run
https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article17605559.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/1_Wigman.jpg

Vic cat burglar wore wig, stole jewellery https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/5584828/vic-cat-burglar-wore-wig-stole-jewellery/

Assistant commissioner to the MET Mark Rowley 2017:There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 06, 2020, 09:10:01 AM
They're not not suspects.

It seems if you suggest the McCanns are suspects in this investigation it would be considered libellous...so you should be ok
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 06, 2020, 09:29:38 AM
Some posters are making a lot about the SC statement that the McCanns havent been cleared. Thinking about it the only body who could say the McCanns are no longer persons of interest is the PJ and by doing so would have to admit what an almighty cock up the initial investigation was. Having said that P D Carmo  has said the mcCanns are not suspects so in effect has cleared them which would mean the SC were just palin wrong.

To be precise, the SC judges didn't just say the McCanns hadn't been cleared. They said the McCanns hadn't been clieared by the archiving despatch, as claimed by their lawyer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 06, 2020, 09:31:02 AM
All the files weren’t released however a list of all the files were.....and there was no mention of the type of note Kate claimed.

Can you give me a link to where I would find the list of all the files given to the McCann's and their lawyers please?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 06, 2020, 09:55:32 AM
Can you give me a link to where I would find the list of all the files given to the McCann's and their lawyers please?
I don't think a list like that exists.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 06, 2020, 10:13:02 AM
It seems if you suggest the McCanns are suspects in this investigation it would be considered libellous...so you should be ok
I woukd say it is insulting and libellous.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 06, 2020, 10:15:27 AM
I have changed my signature line to express my beliefs.  I trust this meets the full approval of the forum moderators.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 06, 2020, 10:25:20 AM
Assistant commissioner to the MET Mark Rowley 2017:There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense.

And we know for certain that in the case of much of the nonsense which made headlines and odd stories pejoratively directed against Kate and Gerry McCann and other witnesses emanated directly from Amaral aided and abetted by his journalist friend at the time, another criminal cop, Cristovao.

Amaral was sacked from the investigation after being indiscreet with a journalist he was leaking to and Sandra Felgueiras has confirmed he leaked lies to her.

So in many cases ~ and taking Amaral as a prime one ~ I think your cite fits the bill.  Now we only have to work out why people believed and in some instances still believe the arrant nonsense spouted by Amaral.

P.S. ~  Do you know if Amaral has come across anything from the long list of 'lost property' he's apparently been looking for since 2007 ?  the poisonous Calpol for example ... or even his Ace.
Wonder why Brueckner or his ilk never featured on it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 06, 2020, 10:37:36 AM
Can you give me a link to where I would find the list of all the files given to the McCann's and their lawyers please?

What you showed is not proof...as near as you can get is CM stating the mccs had thousands of pages to go through

Where can you show mccs lawyer was given the extra pages

Missing pages from the files
McCann PJ files does not have access to the missing files


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 06, 2020, 11:53:32 AM
Can you give me a link to where I would find the list of all the files given to the McCann's and their lawyers please?

There was pages missing from the DVD which the parents may have had access to but none that could have been the note as described by Kate.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAGE_ORDER.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 06, 2020, 06:55:12 PM
Smithman reconstruction. Nobody else is seen on this route until Rua 25 de Abril.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 06, 2020, 07:53:01 PM
Smithman reconstruction. Nobody else is seen on this route until Rua 25 de Abril.


(http://i.imgur.com/DrwTEhg.jpg)
Standing at an entrance to the waste ground, Mr Amaral said: “This area was thoroughly searched.”

He walked a few steps and looked up at a CCTV camera and sighed loudly. The camera belongs to the Estrela da Luz resort hotel. “I believe that the person carrying a child in his arms was captured on film from that very camera,” he said.

“I asked my officers to gather all the CCTV footage in Luz but, by the time they got to this hotel, the film from this camera had been wiped over. It was a mistake and I will always regret it. I do feel Madeleine was let down.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/210032/Madeleine-McCann-Did-the-camera-hold-vital-clue
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 07, 2020, 12:38:08 AM
Smithman reconstruction. Nobody else is seen on this route until Rua 25 de Abril.

ORIGINAL RESPONSE DELETED

There was NO VIDEO when I wrote my response and the video suddenly appeared making a nonsense of my post, which I have now deleted.

One point that I would make about the video is that we do not know what date and WHAT TIME IT was made.  Was it at 10pm on May 5th 2007 or was it filmed mid winter at 1.30 am.  To be frank PF, the video is irrelevant.

However having been there a couple of times, I will freely admit that this route was very quiet when I was there.   But so what?    A likely route for carrying Madeleine away, yep.  We all know that.   But the video proves nothing.

Whether, or not the ?abductor (Smithman) took ?Madeleine that way, breaking his journey at the Staff quarters on the right is what we really need to know … and with whom did he meet at the staff quarters? 

Was Smithman actually Tannerman and was he let down by the getaway driver ?
Was the person at the staff quarters actually an accomplice ?


Did he pick up a long sleeved top for the little girl he was carrying?   So had the ?accomplish a child of her own?   Did she work with young children herself, so have top handy?

Did he phone someone from there to arrange a hand over rendezvous ?


Questions, questions, questions.  We need the answers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 07, 2020, 09:07:31 AM
There was pages missing from the DVD which the parents may have had access to but none that could have been the note as described by Kate.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAGE_ORDER.htm

Do they add up to 20,000 documents?    I don't think so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 07, 2020, 11:01:15 AM
Do they add up to 20,000 documents?    I don't think so.

You think the parents had access to more files than on the DVD....prove it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 07, 2020, 11:01:57 AM
Do they add up to 20,000 documents?    I don't think so.

Documents or pages?

Kate and Gerry McCann were told they could begin to study some 20,000 pages filed by police in Portimao.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7535209.stm

The files released to dozens of journalists on 4 August contain nearly 30,000 pages in digital format.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7543104.stm

Some 20,000 pages of evidence were released on Monday to journalists who had made a formal request to prosecutors, including the BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7541810.stm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 07, 2020, 11:36:47 AM
You think the parents had access to more files than on the DVD....prove it.

It is highly likely that they did.   To say Kate made up that she saw the receptionists note,  is ridiculous.  Why would she lie about it?   I didn't read that Amaral disputed what she said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 07, 2020, 11:52:20 AM
It is highly likely that they did.   To say Kate made up that she saw the receptionists note,  is ridiculous.  Why would she lie about it?   I didn't read that Amaral disputed what she said.

You think it's highly likely, I think it's highly unlikely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 07, 2020, 11:58:41 AM
You think it's highly likely, I think it's highly unlikely.

And neither opinion matters one jot
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on August 07, 2020, 11:59:25 AM
You think the parents had access to more files than on the DVD....prove it.

What rights do "assistentes" have and is there anything to indicate that they were not given that status once the case was archived?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 07, 2020, 12:36:58 PM
It is highly likely that they did.   To say Kate made up that she saw the receptionists note,  is ridiculous.  Why would she lie about it?   I didn't read that Amaral disputed what she said.

So you have no proof ?

As to Amaral, he couldn’t possibly have known that the note, if it existed, wasn’t discovered after his departure as coordinator.

So the only reason you think the note existed is because Kate said so...is that correct ? And although by saying would have no impact on her you still find it ridiculous? Why ?

Cite and context required, please
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 07, 2020, 04:31:03 PM
So you have no proof ?

As to Amaral, he couldn’t possibly have known that the note, if it existed, wasn’t discovered after his departure as coordinator.

So the only reason you think the note existed is because Kate said so...is that correct ? And although by saying would have no impact on her you still find it ridiculous? Why ?

Cite and context required, please


No,  not just because Kate says so.   I found out that the McCann's and their Lawyers were given 20,000 sheets of the Portuguese investigation,  the Lawyers would no doubt have been privy to a lot more than the general public.

Amaral should have known about it,  unless of course the Receptionist wasn't interviewed and that may be the case.   

All this barmy goings on about there was no note,  that is what I find ridiculous.   It seems that some people just want to make a huge conspiracy about things,  just because they can't see it in the Police Files that was made public to Joe Blogs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 07, 2020, 04:52:31 PM
So you have no proof ?

As to Amaral, he couldn’t possibly have known that the note, if it existed, wasn’t discovered after his departure as coordinator.

So the only reason you think the note existed is because Kate said so...is that correct ? And although by saying would have no impact on her you still find it ridiculous? Why ?

Cite and contest required, please


No,  not just because Kate says so.   I found out that the McCann's and their Lawyers were given 20,000 sheets of the Portuguese investigation,  the Lawyers would no doubt have been privy to a lot more than the general public.

Amaral should have known about it,  unless of course the Receptionist wasn't interviewed and that may be the case.   

All this barmy goings on about there was no note,  that is what I find ridiculous.   It seems that some people just want to make a huge conspiracy about things,  just because they can't see it in the Police Files that was made public to Joe Blogs.


Would no doubt be privy ? Do you gave any evidence of your claim ?

You say Amaral must have known about the note then give a reason why he might not. Bizarre.

No conspiracy. There is no proof of the note Kate claimed was in reception..end of.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 07, 2020, 08:02:48 PM

No,  not just because Kate says so.   I found out that the McCann's and their Lawyers were given 20,000 sheets of the Portuguese investigation,  the Lawyers would no doubt have been privy to a lot more than the general public.

Amaral should have known about it,  unless of course the Receptionist wasn't interviewed and that may be the case.   

All this barmy goings on about there was no note,  that is what I find ridiculous.   It seems that some people just want to make a huge conspiracy about things,  just because they can't see it in the Police Files that was made public to Joe Blogs.


The lawyer would be privy to only what the police gave out and what the McCanns told him.

No evidence of note, if she didn't want people to know she was leaving her babies to fend for themselves every night while she had a drink and meal then she shouldn't have made it so bloody obvious!

This finger pointing is just their usual exercise to divert attention from them. The T9 have remained very silent, to me this speaks volumes.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 08, 2020, 10:07:45 AM

The lawyer would be privy to only what the police gave out and what the McCanns told him.

No evidence of note, if she didn't want people to know she was leaving her babies to fend for themselves every night while she had a drink and meal then she shouldn't have made it so bloody obvious!

This finger pointing is just their usual exercise to divert attention from them. The T9 have remained very silent, to me this speaks volumes.


It wasn't Kate who made the block booking.

There was no finger pointing,  Kate made it clear in her book that it was only written because the receptionist had to explain why they were given a block booking.

The friends have remained silent as there is an active investigation going on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 08, 2020, 10:13:07 AM

Would no doubt be privy ? Do you gave any evidence of your claim ?

You say Amaral must have known about the note then give a reason why he might not. Bizarre.

No conspiracy. There is no proof of the note Kate claimed was in reception..end of.

As Amaral was very lacksadaisical with his interviewing,  it is likely the receptionist wasn't interviewed,  yet Kate's claim has been in the news and no one has come forward to say 'no,  there was no note'   so what do you make of that?

You go along with there being no note,  even though you don't have access to all the papers that weren't in the Police files that is bizarre.   Though you are quite welcome to think there is a conspiracy.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 08, 2020, 10:54:16 AM
As Amaral was very lacksadaisical with his interviewing,  it is likely the receptionist wasn't interviewed,  yet Kate's claim has been in the news and no one has come forward to say 'no,  there was no note'   so what do you make of that?

You go along with there being no note,  even though you don't have access to all the papers that weren't in the Police files that is bizarre.   Though you are quite welcome to think there is a conspiracy.

Of course the receptionist was interviewed; on 8th May. Strangely, there are no Tapas booking forms for the Sunday or Monday evenings, nor is their absence remarked on.

All the missing pages are missing for a reason. If there was a note it doesn't seem to be missing for any of the stated reasons.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on August 08, 2020, 02:28:05 PM

It wasn't Kate who made the block booking.

There was no finger pointing,  Kate made it clear in her book that it was only written because the receptionist had to explain why they were given a block booking.

The friends have remained silent as there is an active investigation going on.
Yes, because the employees were not supposed to allow a block booking in advance. I also think it is possible that Fiona, who made the booking, told Kate that the receptionist wrote down the reason for the block booking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 08, 2020, 02:45:55 PM
Yes, because the employees were not supposed to allow a block booking in advance. I also think it is possible that Fiona, who made the booking, told Kate that the receptionist wrote down the reason for the block booking.

Isn't this all frightfully old news?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 08, 2020, 05:00:25 PM
As Amaral was very lacksadaisical with his interviewing,  it is likely the receptionist wasn't interviewed,  yet Kate's claim has been in the news and no one has come forward to say 'no,  there was no note'   so what do you make of that?

You go along with there being no note,  even though you don't have access to all the papers that weren't in the Police files that is bizarre.   Though you are quite welcome to think there is a conspiracy.

As I said Amaral may not have seen the note so wouldn’t know the truth of Kate’s claim.

You can’t even prove that the parents had access to any more files than journalist so please give it up....and no conspiracy, that takes at least two people. I have never heard anyone else claim that there was a note...only Kate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 08, 2020, 05:40:14 PM
People seem to think Kate McCann is so stupid that she would lie about things that others including the police would instantly know were a lie and which could be used against her to prove she was a liar.  I don’t think some people rely too heavily on thinking things through properly, but prefer just to sling mud and innuendo and hope some of it sticks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 08, 2020, 06:04:05 PM
Think about it logically. What sanction would Kate face if she was found out to be a liar about the note ? She had already admitted in her book that she had lied when it was unavoidable so it obviously doesn’t matter to her being thought a liar and another lie wouldn’t be too much of a surprise...would it ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 08, 2020, 06:31:03 PM
As I said Amaral may not have seen the note so wouldn’t know the truth of Kate’s claim.

You can’t even prove that the parents had access to any more files than journalist so please give it up....and no conspiracy, that takes at least two people. I have never heard anyone else claim that there was a note...only Kate.

I posted a link where it said the McCann's and their lawyers had 20,000 pages how many did the journalists have?

The receptionist was interviewed -  https://themaddiecasefiles.com/mark-warner-ocean-club-staff-statements-t9-s50.html#p186

She wrote it in a book,  so where in the Police files is the book?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 08, 2020, 06:35:23 PM
Some people just cannot think logically imo.  Of course Kate would not be sanctioned for lying about the note, but it would immediately signal to the authorities that she was a bare faced liar, something I would have thought anyone who had once been a suspect in their child’s disappearance and who was making strenuous efforts to have the case reviewed would think twice about doing.  And yet some people actually believe Kate’s book is simply chock full of such easily found-out lies.  Why would she risk drawing such unwelcome attention back to herself, having already escaped the long arm of the law once?  It makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 08, 2020, 06:37:47 PM

Think about this too....

Three different police forces have spent 7 odd years investigating, wasted in excess of twelve million quid & they still haven't proven the McCanns didn't do it.
That’s not the aim of these three police forces, in case you weren’t aware.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 08, 2020, 06:55:53 PM
Of course the receptionist was interviewed; on 8th May. Strangely, there are no Tapas booking forms for the Sunday or Monday evenings, nor is their absence remarked on.

All the missing pages are missing for a reason. If there was a note it doesn't seem to be missing for any of the stated reasons.

The receptionist wrote a note inside the book at reception,  so it is the book that needs to be missing from the Police files.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 08, 2020, 07:03:36 PM
The receptionist wrote a note inside the book at reception,  so it is the book that needs to be missing from the Police files.
According to Kate, the admitted liar. She's a liar, so everything she states is tainted (invoking Gonzo's Law).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 08, 2020, 07:06:56 PM
Think about it logically. What sanction would Kate face if she was found out to be a liar about the note ? She had already admitted in her book that she had lied when it was unavoidable so it obviously doesn’t matter to her being thought a liar and another lie wouldn’t be too much of a surprise...would it ?

I've asked for a cite (quote) in context for this once already.  Any chance of having one - particularly the context.
Thank you, in anticipation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 08, 2020, 07:10:17 PM
According to Kate, the admitted liar. She's a liar, so everything she states is tainted (invoking Gonzo's Law).
Has Gonzo ever admitted to telling a lie?  Doubtful.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 08, 2020, 07:15:06 PM
I've asked for a cite (quote) in context for this once already.  Any chance of having one - particularly the context.
Thank you, in anticipation.
it was to do with the reason she (Kate) gave for canceling the trip to Huelva.  This was discussed before, possibly 2 years ago now.  Kate explains her reasons in her book.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 08, 2020, 07:21:04 PM
According to Kate, the admitted liar. She's a liar, so everything she states is tainted (invoking Gonzo's Law).

It's of no importance of a small group of sceptics on the net believe it's what the investigators believe
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 08, 2020, 07:23:17 PM
It's of no importance of a small group of sceptics on the net believe it's what the investigators believe
Says the man with 3 million posts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 08, 2020, 07:27:37 PM
Says the man with 3 million posts.
What makes you think any discussion here is important..... we're just like a group of people in a virtual pub putting the world to right
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 08, 2020, 07:32:58 PM
What makes you think any discussion here is important..... we're just like a group of people in a virtual pub putting the world to right
I do agree, this is all irrelevant. When you consider that my input is as irrelevant as it gets, then it sort of puts it in to context and makes me question my life choices.

You're in a very reflective mood tonight our kid. Need a chat? Have you got any Jameson's?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 08, 2020, 07:51:20 PM
it was to do with the reason she (Kate) gave for canceling the trip to Huelva.  This was discussed before, possibly 2 years ago now.  Kate explains her reasons in her book.

Thanks, Rob, I knew that.  Hence the request for context.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 08, 2020, 11:17:46 PM
I posted a link where it said the McCann's and their lawyers had 20,000 pages how many did the journalists have?

The receptionist was interviewed -  https://themaddiecasefiles.com/mark-warner-ocean-club-staff-statements-t9-s50.html#p186

She wrote it in a book,  so where in the Police files is the book?

You’re making the claim, it’s up to you to tell me how many pages the journalists had.

As to the receptionist she says nothing in her interview about writing in any book that the children were being left alone as Kate claimed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 08, 2020, 11:21:51 PM
The receptionist wrote a note inside the book at reception,  so it is the book that needs to be missing from the Police files.

She wrote the booking. She says nothing about writing that the children were left alone.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 08, 2020, 11:25:16 PM
I've asked for a cite (quote) in context for this once already.  Any chance of having one - particularly the context.
Thank you, in anticipation.

When you start providing cites when I ask I’ll return the favour.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 09, 2020, 09:01:40 AM
You’re making the claim, it’s up to you to tell me how many pages the journalists had.

As to the receptionist she says nothing in her interview about writing in any book that the children were being left alone as Kate claimed.

Is the book that the receptionist wrote the booking in,  in the Police files that the public received?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 09, 2020, 09:44:29 AM
Is the book that the receptionist wrote the booking in,  in the Police files that the public received?
It’s amazing to me that the person who allegedly wrote this note never read Kate’s book or any of the news reports about this note in the press, because had it  never been written that person could have sold their story to the media to say that Kat was telling a big lie about it.  Surely a story worth a few hundred euros?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 09:52:09 AM
It’s amazing to me that the person who allegedly wrote this note never read Kate’s book or any of the news reports about this note in the press, because had it  never been written that person could have sold their story to the media to say that Kat was telling a big lie about it.  Surely a story worth a few hundred euros?

The same poster making allegations now did the same against Sandra F re the lies from Amaral. When I made some investigation s it was clear Sandra didn't know about the lies when she did the ask the dogs interview. 

As you have said if Kate had lied she would have been exposed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 09, 2020, 10:00:19 AM
Is the book that the receptionist wrote the booking in,  in the Police files that the public received?

Which book is it? Is it the staff message book or the Tapas restaurant bookings book?



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 09, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
When you start providing cites when I ask I’ll return the favour.

You will be returning no favours by supplying a cite when requested (and the context of the request I made is quite obviously what is troubling you ~ hence your refusal) ... you will be following forum protocols which is a situation of which I supposed members of the moderating team might have taken note, quite disappointing to find that is not so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 09, 2020, 11:42:57 AM
Which book is it? Is it the staff message book or the Tapas restaurant bookings book?
Irrespective of the existence or non-existence of this note, it's pretty lame to somehow blame the girl who took the booking for 'inadvertently' making their plans known. It's not as if any of the staff and even guests wouldn't twig to the absence of about 15 kids every night; there's only so many places where they could be.
And she had a revelation while sifting through the files? Gimmeabreakalready. Root cause Kate, root cause, not some half-baked mitigation on your part.

The list of admitted negligent actions grows:
 - left the kids alone to fend for themselves
 - left the apartment unlocked
 - made their intentions known to staff and visitors alike

Convenient.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 09, 2020, 01:22:07 PM
Irrespective of the existence or non-existence of this note, it's pretty lame to somehow blame the girl who took the booking for 'inadvertently' making their plans known. It's not as if any of the staff and even guests wouldn't twig to the absence of about 15 kids every night; there's only so many places where they could be.
And she had a revelation while sifting through the files? Gimmeabreakalready. Root cause Kate, root cause, not some half-baked mitigation on your part.

The list of admitted negligent actions grows:
 - left the kids alone to fend for themselves
 - left the apartment unlocked
 - made their intentions known to staff and visitors alike

Convenient.

Why was this story included in 'madeleine'? Obviously to support the abduction theory. We're being told that staff, guests and visitors only had to look at the book to realise that 8 children were being left home alone every evening from 8.30pm onwards. Well, providing the book was left open on the same page on the desk every day.

Of course there are other ways for the news to have travelled round the resort. Gerry McCann told Jez Wilkins and his missus that they were leaving the kids; how many others did he share that with? Did the receptionist spread the gossip? As it was unusual behaviour, she might well have done.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 09, 2020, 01:30:00 PM
Why was this story included in 'madeleine'? Obviously to support the abduction theory. We're being told that staff, guests and visitors only had to look at the book to realise that 8 children were being left home alone every evening from 8.30pm onwards. Well, providing the book was left open on the same page on the desk every day.

Of course there are other ways for the news to have travelled round the resort. Gerry McCann told Jez Wilkins and his missus that they were leaving the kids; how many others did he share that with? Did the receptionist spread the gossip? As it was unusual behaviour, she might well have done.
Exactly my point; it's an odd comment given that books, traditionally, have pages that turn and to take bookings for the next day you would have to turn a page, thus covering the previous days' entry.
Everyone else is to blame apparently, including the poor girl who they browbeat in to giving them a block booking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 09, 2020, 02:23:32 PM
Can we have a cite for Kate blaming the woman who was “browbeaten” into taking a block booking?    I predict you won’t be able to provide one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 09, 2020, 02:31:49 PM
Exactly my point; it's an odd comment given that books, traditionally, have pages that turn and to take bookings for the next day you would have to turn a page, thus covering the previous days' entry.
Everyone else is to blame apparently, including the poor girl who they browbeat in to giving them a block booking.

Yes, whoever the tall thin man was, he was very insistent. Although Rachael says she begged and pleaded on Monday morning for a booking every evening for the week, the receptionist had no memory of her at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 09, 2020, 02:49:09 PM
Can we have a cite for Kate blaming the woman who was “browbeaten” into taking a block booking?    I predict you won’t be able to provide one.

What does it matter ... I have to admit to be more highly amused than I normally am by the transparent attempts to deflect from the very important issues happening in the here and now.  All of which ultimately lead back to the Amaral investigation ~ the ridiculousness of his book ~ the ridiculousness of his media career ~ the ridiculousness of his friends many of whom like him, have criminal convictions ~ and the ridiculousness Amaral himself.

Amaral is a lost cause but I think there are a few, himself included, who are just never going to give up on the belief system Amaral has invented and promulgated with a vengeance ... and it is a vengeance.

One way of combating that is to get immersed in trivia to take their minds off what has been the inevitable unmasking of the charlatan Amaral;  sad really ... but it has been a long time coming so there is a lot for the poor souls to digest.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 09, 2020, 04:36:51 PM
Yes, whoever the tall thin man was, he was very insistent. Although Rachael says she begged and pleaded on Monday morning for a booking every evening for the week, the receptionist had no memory of her at all.
So are you saying the "poor girl" wasn't "browbeaten" into making the block booking as the General has claimed?  All of which has diddly-squat to do with the erstwhile fat, sweaty cop with a penchant for beer and sardines who this thread has been named after.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 09, 2020, 06:41:09 PM
The same poster making allegations now did the same against Sandra F re the lies from Amaral. When I made some investigation s it was clear Sandra didn't know about the lies when she did the ask the dogs interview. 

As you have said if Kate had lied she would have been exposed


If that’s true then in my opinion she is an appalling journalist as the information was all over the internet as soon as the files were released. As a journalist she would have had access to the DVD from the get go and are you really trying to tell me that she wasn’t curious enough to look at the forensic reports ?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 09, 2020, 06:47:40 PM
You will be returning no favours by supplying a cite when requested (and the context of the request I made is quite obviously what is troubling you ~ hence your refusal) ... you will be following forum protocols which is a situation of which I supposed members of the moderating team might have taken note, quite disappointing to find that is not so.


A couple of weeks ago I asked you for a cite and as is your want you completely ignored my post so can I suggest that if you want forum members to follow the rules you set a good example by doing it yourself ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 09, 2020, 06:56:02 PM
What does it matter ... I have to admit to be more highly amused than I normally am by the transparent attempts to deflect from the very important issues happening in the here and now.  All of which ultimately lead back to the Amaral investigation ~ the ridiculousness of his book ~ the ridiculousness of his media career ~ the ridiculousness of his friends many of whom like him, have criminal convictions ~ and the ridiculousness Amaral himself.

Amaral is a lost cause but I think there are a few, himself included, who are just never going to give up on the belief system Amaral has invented and promulgated with a vengeance ... and it is a vengeance.

One way of combating that is to get immersed in trivia to take their minds off what has been the inevitable unmasking of the charlatan Amaral;  sad really ... but it has been a long time coming so there is a lot for the poor souls to digest.

Is it wrong of me to enjoy the impotent hatred you display towards Amaral ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 07:08:17 PM
Keep to the topic. Posts have been removed for taking thread off topic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 09, 2020, 07:12:01 PM
Keep to the topic. Posts have been removed for taking thread off topic.
And yet you seem to be discussing your brush with Coronavirus on a thread about uploading photos of dead Bamber victims elsewhere.  I smell double standards!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 07:20:51 PM


If that’s true then she is an appalling journalist as the information was all over the internet as soon as the files were released. As a journalist she would have had access to the DVD from the get go and are you really trying to tell me that she wasn’t curious enough to look at the forensic reports ?

You may be gullible, don’t assume that the rest of us are.

I know as a fact she didn't know when she did the ask the dogs interview....your hatred towards her shines through and colours your opinion..imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 07:28:48 PM
And yet you seem to be discussing your brush with Coronavirus on a thread about uploading photos of dead Bamber victims elsewhere.  I smell double standards!
Do you want me to answer your question?   Like what you said had it been on the "Wandering off topic" thread it might have been OK.   How do you keep that thread "on topic"?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 07:34:59 PM


If that’s true then she is an appalling journalist as the information was all over the internet as soon as the files were released. As a journalist she would have had access to the DVD from the get go and are you really trying to tell me that she wasn’t curious enough to look at the forensic reports ?



Is it wrong of me to enjoy the impotent hatred you display towards Sandra.

I don't think you are in any position to judge anyone's gullibility here...

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 07:42:40 PM
Keep the discussion on track D. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 09, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
Keep the discussion on track D.

I think the attitude displayed towards Sandra Felguieras is very much in place in  Goncalo Amaral thread, Rob.

She did fall from grace as a direct result of her honesty in revealing how Amaral had duped her; a first hand account of her experience about which there can be no doubt.
But sufficient to turn someone once defined as a heroine into being considered a traitor ... and all because she spoke the truth which is unacceptable for some.

The rank hatred for all with any positive connection to Madeleine and her parents ... for example, Clarence Mitchell  is quite an extraordinary spectacle to behold which in my opinion renders Davel's comment most pertinent.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 08:13:39 PM
I think the attitude displayed towards Sandra Felguieras is very much in place in  Goncalo Amaral thread, Rob.

She did fall from grace as a direct result of her honesty in revealing how Amaral had duped her; a first hand account of her experience about which there can be no doubt.
But sufficient to turn someone once defined as a heroine into being considered a traitor ... and all because she spoke the truth which is unacceptable for some.

The rank hatred for all with any positive connection to Madeleine and her parents ... for example, Clarence Mitchell  is quite an extraordinary spectacle to behold which in my opinion renders Davel's comment most pertinent.
I agree.  The bit I eliminated had to do with Davel's personal information, from memory.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 08:18:05 PM
I agree.  The bit I eliminated had to do with Davel's personal information, from memory.

I didn't give any personal information....i was responding to the ad hom attack that you saw fit to leave accusing me of being gullible....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 08:20:08 PM
I didn't give any personal information....i was responding to the ad hom attack that you saw fit to leave accusing me of being gullible....
What were the words then?  You might have felt it was personal when it wasn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 08:22:17 PM
What were the words then?  You might have felt it was personal when it wasn't.

It looks like Brietta saw it as ad hom as its been removed...so its not just me
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 09, 2020, 08:23:14 PM
What were the words then?  You might have felt it was personal when it wasn't.

Coming from you that is hard to believe.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 09, 2020, 08:23:21 PM
I think the attitude displayed towards Sandra Felguieras is very much in place in  Goncalo Amaral thread, Rob.

She did fall from grace as a direct result of her honesty in revealing how Amaral had duped her; a first hand account of her experience about which there can be no doubt.
But sufficient to turn someone once defined as a heroine into being considered a traitor ... and all because she spoke the truth which is unacceptable for some.

The rank hatred for all with any positive connection to Madeleine and her parents ... for example, Clarence Mitchell  is quite an extraordinary spectacle to behold which in my opinion renders Davel's comment most pertinent.
Sandra went full Jane Fonda, end of.
And as for your post, swap Mitchell for Amaral and see how it scans back.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 08:24:17 PM
could a mod look at this blatant ad hom to keep the discussion on track...or is this post acceptable
I'm happy that that is OK.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 08:26:06 PM
Coming from you that is hard to believe.
It wasn't something I said to Davel, it was someone else, I believe.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 08:29:12 PM
I'm happy that that is OK.

Well you may be gullible but i'm not....is  a phrase you have ruled to be ok. I think its ad hom as does Brietta .
Obviously you wont be offended if its used against you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 08:31:11 PM
It looks like Brietta saw it as ad hom as its been removed...so its not just me
OK so there is nothing wrong with what is left!  Has Brietta actual said it was an ad home?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 08:32:51 PM
OK so there is nothing wrong with what is left!  Has Brietta actual said it was an ad home?

I'm not going to discuss it any more....you seem to like pointless arguments....I can't be bothered
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 08:35:29 PM
I'm not going to discuss it any more....you seem to like pointless arguments....I can't be bothered
Keep on topic and don't goad others into exploring your personal information.   That was the gist of my moderation today.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 09, 2020, 08:36:13 PM
Exactly my point; it's an odd comment given that books, traditionally, have pages that turn and to take bookings for the next day you would have to turn a page, thus covering the previous days' entry.
Everyone else is to blame apparently, including the poor girl who they browbeat in to giving them a block booking.

Actually Kate didn't blame her,  she understood that she had written it in order to cover herself because there was a block booking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 08:38:03 PM
Keep on topic and don't goad others into exploring your personal information.   That was the gist of my moderation today.  Thanks.
I never invited faith to commnet on my personal information...she made it her business to.You didnt remove her posts John did. I suggest you stop now
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 08:41:40 PM
I never invited faith to commnet on my personal information...she made it her business to.You didnt remove her posts John did. I suggest you stop now
Are you now talking ancient history?  Get back to the real business of discussing the topic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 08:44:18 PM
Are you now talking ancient history?  Get back to the real business of discussing the topic.

thats what Ive been trying to do .... best just leave it there
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 08:46:46 PM
thats what Ive been trying to do .... best just leave it there
That's what I said right from the start.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 09, 2020, 08:47:16 PM
thats what Ive been trying to do .... best just leave it there

You'll be lucky.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 09, 2020, 08:56:46 PM
I know as a fact she didn't know when she did the ask the dogs interview....your hatred towards her shines through and colours your opinion..imo

Then she is a sh*t journalist because anyone with even a passing interest in the case knew the forensic results before November 2009.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 09:01:33 PM
Then she is a sh*t journalist because anyone with even a passing interest in the case knew the forensic results before November 2009.

Thats an odd statement when there are posters here who still beleive the dogs and the dna proves maddie died in the apartmnet....aren't you ridiculing them too
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 09, 2020, 09:01:59 PM
You'll be lucky.

Oh don’t stop the show....I’ve always loved the clowns.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 09:03:10 PM
Oh don’t stop the show....I’ve always loved the clowns.

I'm sure you feel very much at home with them....I can't stand them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 09, 2020, 09:04:03 PM
Thats an odd statement when there are posters here who still beleive the dogs and the dna proves maddie died in the apartmnet....aren't you ridiculing them too

So you’re equating SF with individuals you think are idiots.

Good to know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 09:05:45 PM
So you’re equating SF with individuals you think are idiots.

Good to know.

I'm equating her with those that believe amaral is a competent cop...she obvioulsy realises the truth now
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 09, 2020, 09:09:00 PM
I'm equating her with those that believe amaral is a competent cop...she obvioulsy realises the truth now

And did before November 2009 but still harangued the parents in an interview.

Lovely girl.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 09:10:20 PM
I'm equating her with those that believe amaral is a competent cop...she obvioulsy realises the truth now
Let her speak for herself.  Otherwise it is just your opinion, and we know how flawed opinions can be.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 09:27:16 PM
Let her speak for herself.  Otherwise it is just your opinion, and we know how flawed opinions can be.

she has spoken for herself...its not my opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 09:29:50 PM
Let her speak for herself.  Otherwise it is just your opinion, and we know how flawed opinions can be.
..

Sandra was asked the direct question..

When you did the "ask the dogs" interview with kate and garry....had you realised by then that amaral had lied to you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 09:34:09 PM
she has spoken for herself...its not my opinion
You said "she obvioulsy realises the truth now"  I have heard her opinion some time back but I'm unaware how she feels "now".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 09:37:09 PM
You said "she obvioulsy realises the truth now"  I have heard her opinion some time back but I'm unaware how she feels "now".

Faith has claimed she must have realised she had been misled when she did the interview...that was the precise question she was asked....she was aked the question about two weeks ago
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 09:41:11 PM
Faith has claimed she must have realised she had been misled when she did the interview...that was the precise question she was asked....she was aked the question about two weeks ago
Are you saying SF "was asked the question about two weeks ago"?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 09:42:58 PM
Are you saying SF "was asked the question about two weeks ago"?

yes
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 09:44:28 PM
yes
I wasn't aware of that. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 09:45:11 PM
I wasn't aware of that.

not many people are
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 09:55:55 PM
not many people are
Itiscoming back she was on a recent video, and showing her age.  So it was recent.  I'll see if I can find it?   Anyone got the link to a recent SF interview.  sandra felgueiras
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 10:00:05 PM
Itiscoming back she was on a recent video, and showing her age.  So it was recent.  I'll see if I can find it?   Anyone got the link to a recent SF interview.  sandra felgueiras

It's not on there
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 09, 2020, 10:02:14 PM
It's not on there
So where was it then? (In the last couple of weeks.)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 10:09:44 PM
So where was it then? (In the last couple of weeks.)

I asked her the question
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 10:10:41 PM
D
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 09, 2020, 11:18:01 PM
I asked her the question

That’s strange because I asked her the same question the other night while we were necking a bottle of Lambrini and sharing a saveloy and she said course she knew but tame interviews didn’t butter no baguettes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 12:28:42 AM
That’s strange because I asked her the same question the other night while we were necking a bottle of Lambrini and sharing a saveloy and she said course she knew but tame interviews didn’t butter no baguettes.
But you are not Davel are you!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 12:30:08 AM
I asked her the question
And I presume she answered.   OK the sort of thing I'd do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 10, 2020, 02:18:30 AM

A couple of weeks ago I asked you for a cite and as is your want you completely ignored my post so can I suggest that if you want forum members to follow the rules you set a good example by doing it yourself ?

It is totally impossible to give cites in some instances because it seems that, quite often, any written word or image that goes against Amaral has been deleted from the internet

I wonder if this injustice is confined to Portugal ?

Some mighty powerful people on Amarals side.  I have witnessed even Google Earth altered to destroy evidence that goes against these people and their evil brotherhood
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 07:14:24 AM
That’s strange because I asked her the same question the other night while we were necking a bottle of Lambrini and sharing a saveloy and she said course she knew but tame interviews didn’t butter no baguettes.

You misjudge me again if you think I would make such a claim without evidence to support it. I asked her the question via FB messenger on her official FB page...     https://www.facebook.com/Sandra-Felgueiras-212819698751369    .....

I have  ascreenshot with the question and the reply
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 10, 2020, 07:46:00 AM
Actually Kate didn't blame her,  she understood that she had written it in order to cover herself because there was a block booking.
Even if it were true, and we only have Kate's version, how do you think that girl feels, thinking it might all be her fault now?
Like a TJ Peranara pass out of the back of a scrum - zing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 10, 2020, 07:57:10 AM
Even if it were true, and we only have Kate's version, how do you think that girl feels, thinking it might all be her fault now?
Like a TJ Peranara pass out of the back of a scrum - zing.

It is no ones fault but the abductor,  stop trying to take the blame from the person responsible for Madeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 10, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
It is no ones fault but the abductor,  stop trying to take the blame from the person responsible for Madeleine's disappearance.
Eh? Kate inferring the receptionist let the cat out of the bag - imagine how the girl feels, the poor sod.
We know she isn't to blame, but it doesn't make it any better.

.....besides the 'what abductor', what about the root cause  - so who's to blame?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 08:10:23 AM
Even if it were true, and we only have Kate's version, how do you think that girl feels, thinking it might all be her fault now?
Like a TJ Peranara pass out of the back of a scrum - zing.
If Kate is lying, this unnamed girl must have spent the last few years silently fuming to herself, complaining to no one and not going to the McCann-hostile press to tell them about this terrible slur on her judgement that the wicked Kate McCann wrote about in her book.  Such marvellous restraint, well done that girl.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 08:19:06 AM
Eh? Kate inferring the receptionist let the cat out of the bag - imagine how the girl feels, the poor sod.
We know she isn't to blame, but it doesn't make it any better.

.....besides the 'what abductor', what about the root cause  - so who's to blame?
And if it’s true, how reprehensible of Kate not to swallow her moment of horrific realisation about the note and what it meant in order to protect the feelings of some unnamed girl in Portugal.  But then that unnamed girl (being Portuguese) almost certainly hasn’t lost a moment’s sleep about it because just like you she probably can’t stand the McCanns and is certain they dunnit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 10, 2020, 08:36:28 AM
Eh? Kate inferring the receptionist let the cat out of the bag - imagine how the girl feels, the poor sod.
We know she isn't to blame, but it doesn't make it any better.

.....besides the 'what abductor', what about the root cause  - so who's to blame?


If the receptionist 'let the cat out of the bag'  then she would know that she was only doing her job explaining why the group had a block booking and wondering what s..m bag read her note and passed it on.   She would know the McCann's didn't blame her if she read Kate's book and that Kate didn't name her either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 10, 2020, 09:05:35 AM

If the receptionist 'let the cat out of the bag'  then she would know that she was only doing her job explaining why the group had a block booking and wondering what s..m bag read her note and passed it on.   She would know the McCann's didn't blame her if she read Kate's book and that Kate didn't name her either.

The person who 'let the cat out of the bag' was the tall thin man who told the receptionist what they were planning to do every evening.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 09:09:41 AM
You misjudge me again if you think I would make such a claim without evidence to support it. I asked her the question via FB messenger on her official FB page...     https://www.facebook.com/Sandra-Felgueiras-212819698751369    .....

I have  ascreenshot with the question and the reply

Then post it. Otherwise your tale is about as credible as mine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on August 10, 2020, 09:09:56 AM
Could we just a little less sniping people and more constructive comments.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 09:11:14 AM
Then post it. Otherwise your tale is about as credible as mine.
Can that be done on the forum?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 09:22:00 AM
Can that be done on the forum?

I can email it to you Rob
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 09:23:42 AM
Can that be done on the forum?
Robbity, how is it xenophobic to point out that the Portuguese press was hostile to the McCanns and that most Portuguese can't stand the McCanns and believe the parents guilty, and why did I get a warning for it?  Absolutely pathetic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 09:26:42 AM
Then post it. Otherwise your tale is about as credible as mine.

As I have the message saved as a screenshot mine is very credible...it would be wrong to post the private message here but I'm happy to email it to Rob
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 09:30:33 AM
Robbity, how is it xenophobic to point out that the Portuguese press was hostile to the McCanns and that most Portuguese can't stand the McCanns and believe the parents guilty, and why did I get a warning for it?  Absolutely pathetic.
Maybe I should have just sent the letter only.  Lowest points was 5% OK. The point was I thought you were saying the girl would not be worried because she was Portuguese.  To me that was xenophobic. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 09:30:41 AM
Can that be done on the forum?

Yes
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 09:31:26 AM
As I have the message saved as a screenshot mine is very credible...it would be wrong to post the private message here but I'm happy to email it to Rob
Email it to me then.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 09:39:15 AM
Email it to me then.
could you pm me an email address
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 09:39:46 AM
As I have the message saved as a screenshot mine is very credible...it would be wrong to post the private message here but I'm happy to email it to Rob

Yes do that and Rob can post it here.

I’d love to see SF confessing that while every other journalist in the western world knew that what they had been told about the forensics in the case were wrong she remained blissfully uninformed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 09:41:54 AM
Maybe I should have just sent the letter only.  Lowest points was 5% OK. The point was I thought you were saying the girl would not be worried because she was Portuguese.  To me that was xenophobic.
My point was that being Portuguese she probably still believes to this day that the McCanns were involved in their child's disappearance.  I thought that it was generally accepted by sceptics and supporters alike that the Portuguese population were generally anti the McCanns either because they dunnit or because they "neglected" their kids.  Does that make us all xenophobes then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 09:43:18 AM
Yes do that and Rob can post it here.

I’d love to see SF confessing that while every other journalist in the western world knew that what they had been told about the forensics in the case were wrong she remained blissfully uninformed.

cite for every other journalist in the western world knew they had been misinformed about the forensics. As I've pointed out most sceptics here it seems still believes what amaral said
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 09:43:55 AM
Was it widely reported in the press prior to the "Ask The Dogs" interview that what they had been told about the forensics by the PJ in this case was all wrong?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 09:46:33 AM
cite for every other journalist in the western world knew they had been misinformed about the forensics. As I've pointed out most sceptics here it seems still believes what amaral said

Certainly anyone who had access to the DVD.....or even the TV or internet.....which, I assume, was SF.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 09:48:00 AM
Maybe I should have just sent the letter only.  Lowest points was 5% OK. The point was I thought you were saying the girl would not be worried because she was Portuguese.  To me that was xenophobic.

So just your Opinion.  Certainly not mine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 09:49:57 AM
My point was that being Portuguese she probably still believes to this day that the McCanns were involved in their child's disappearance.  I thought that it was generally accepted by sceptics and supporters alike that the Portuguese population were generally anti the McCanns either because they dunnit or because they "neglected" their kids.  Does that make us all xenophobes then?

I have been accused of this on this Forum, despite having lived in France for the last thirty years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 09:51:27 AM
Certainly anyone who had access to the DVD.....or even the TV or internet.....which, I assume, was SF.

so why do posters here...and all those on CMOMM...and perhaps you.. still believe the alerts and forensics were significant and what amaral was saying was true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2020, 10:16:52 AM
So just your Opinion.  Certainly not mine.

Nor mine.

There has been a disgraceful media blitz carried out without let up in Portugal headed by Goncalo Amaral and his cohorts in which the McCanns have been vilified and traduced.
Amaral, Cristovao and at least one other convicted torturer have appeared on popular television programmes as pundits giving their extremely flawed and one sided, mainly mistaken views.

It is hardly surprising that hearing only an unbalanced accusatory version of events from 'respected' former police officers very many Portuguese mirror the and mainline views they have been indoctrinated with from every social and media hub accessible to them.

If you are 'brainwashed' for over thirteen years it is bound to have an effect.
I don't think it is in the least Xenophobic to point that out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 10:19:28 AM
so why do posters here...and all those on CMOMM...and perhaps you.. still believe the alerts and forensics were significant and what amaral was saying was true

There is always a way for deluded people to convince themselves that they are right, even when confronted by irrefutable evidence.

This is a sad fact that I have learned over the years on this Forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 11:06:58 AM
so why do posters here...and all those on CMOMM...and perhaps you.. still believe the alerts and forensics were significant and what amaral was saying was true

No idea...you’d have to ask them.

I myself don’t think the forensics are significant but as both Grimes and Harrison said the dog alerts are intelligence so not ‘ nothing’. Further I knew both things long before the ‘dogs’ interview....why didn’t SF ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 11:16:23 AM
No idea...you’d have to ask them.

I myself don’t think the forensics are significant but as both Grimes and Harrison said the dog alerts are intelligence so not ‘ nothing’. Further I knew both things long before the ‘dogs’ interview....why didn’t SF ?

what do you understand by intelligence....

For the same reason petermac who is supposed to be  a retired senior police officer and many others still dont understand their significance. Then we have poulton...Brown...and of course pou like clowns...amaral
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 11:44:41 AM
what do you understand by intelligence....

For the same reason petermac who is supposed to be  a retired senior police officer and many others still dont understand their significance. Then we have poulton...Brown...and of course pou like clowns...amaral

You’re simply deflecting now.

Are you saying that SF, a professional journalist, did not understand forensic reports in the files ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 11:59:34 AM
could you pm me an email address
You have me blocked!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 10, 2020, 12:00:48 PM
Certainly anyone who had access to the DVD.....or even the TV or internet.....which, I assume, was SF.

The McCann's lawyer made it clear in the Portuguese press in May 2009.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/rogerio-alves-there-is-no-evidence-that-she-03-05--t16131.html#p213618

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 12:05:34 PM
You’re simply deflecting now.

Are you saying that SF, a professional journalist, did not understand forensic reports in the files ?
Maybe she didn't trust them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 12:07:01 PM
You have me blocked!

Sorry Rob... mistake

Can't put it right on my phone but will be home soon
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 12:09:02 PM
Maybe she didn't trust them.

My thoughts.  She could probably hardly believe what she was reading having first believed Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 12:10:33 PM
Sorry Rob... mistake
Well tell me when you've unblocked me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2020, 12:16:48 PM
what do you understand by intelligence....

For the same reason petermac who is supposed to be  a retired senior police officer and many others still dont understand their significance. Then we have poulton...Brown...and of course pou like clowns...amaral

I do agree that Sandra Felguieras did indeed show an incredible amount of naivety in her dealings with Goncalo Amaral.

She trusted him implicitly ... despite the fact that she knew very well he was breaking Portuguese law by using her as a conduit to leak information harmful to the McCanns and ultimately Madeleine.

She trusted Amaral to the extent that she believed every leaked piece of information given to her and she had no qualms about revealing them all into the public domain.

The difference was Amaral was spreading lies and disinformation; little wonder she was appalled when she found out how her trust had been abused.
She won't ever make that mistake again and I think it is a lesson which should be considered by other Portuguese or even Aussie journalist who imagine they are benefiting from Amaral's patronage.  It is my opinion Amaral's wants and needs have always been paramount particularly in relation to his influence in prematurely shutting down the search for Madeleine as he followed the dead end of pursuing her parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 12:37:24 PM
I do agree that Sandra Felguieras did indeed show an incredible amount of naivety in her dealings with Goncalo Amaral.

She trusted him implicitly ... despite the fact that she knew very well he was breaking Portuguese law by using her as a conduit to leak information harmful to the McCanns and ultimately Madeleine.

She trusted Amaral to the extent that she believed every leaked piece of information given to her and she had no qualms about revealing them all into the public domain.

The difference was Amaral was spreading lies and disinformation; little wonder she was appalled when she found out how her trust had been abused.
She won't ever make that mistake again and I think it is a lesson which should be considered by other Portuguese or even Aussie journalist who imagine they are benefiting from Amaral's patronage.  It is my opinion Amaral's wants and needs have always been paramount particularly in relation to his influence in prematurely shutting down the search for Madeleine as he followed the dead end of pursuing her parents.

All very interesting but unless she is the most appalling journalist who ever lived she must have known that she had not been told the truth about the forensics before she harangued the parents during the ‘dogs’ interview....15 months after the release of the files. There is no way around that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 12:37:47 PM
I do agree that Sandra Felguieras did indeed show an incredible amount of naivety in her dealings with Goncalo Amaral.

She trusted him implicitly ... despite the fact that she knew very well he was breaking Portuguese law by using her as a conduit to leak information harmful to the McCanns and ultimately Madeleine.

She trusted Amaral to the extent that she believed every leaked piece of information given to her and she had no qualms about revealing them all into the public domain.

The difference was Amaral was spreading lies and disinformation; little wonder she was appalled when she found out how her trust had been abused.
She won't ever make that mistake again and I think it is a lesson which should be considered by other Portuguese or even Aussie journalist who imagine they are benefiting from Amaral's patronage.  It is my opinion Amaral's wants and needs have always been paramount particularly in relation to his influence in prematurely shutting down the search for Madeleine as he followed the dead end of pursuing her parents.

I feel quite sorry for her.  Portugal had long been brainwashed by the likes of Amaral and lived in fear of speaking out because nasty things could happen to them.

Now, she at least has the power of The Internet to protect her.  But no doubt she was shocked rigid at the time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 12:41:46 PM



All very interesting but unless she is the most appalling journalist who ever lived she must have known that she had not been told the truth about the forensics before she harangued the parents during the ‘dogs’ interview....15 months after the release of the files. There is no way around that.

all your opinion....she trusted amaral to be honourable and competent...imo...he wasnt ..imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 12:44:12 PM
all your opinion....she trusted amaral to be honourable and competent...imo...he wasnt ..imo

And now she appears to be looking at The Cipriano Affair again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 10, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
And now she appears to be looking at The Cipriano Affair again.
I mean, again, I really hope this is true. I'd prefer a real investigative journalist on the case, but she'll do.
The concern is, if she's willing to turn Jane Fonda for a few 'mouth on a stick' interviews, how can we trust her impartiality?
But if a thorough job is done she will find why Leonor did a stretch in the jug - not nearly long enough though.


Edit: maybe she could start by looking at who employed and paid for Leonor's appeal lawyer - and why.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 01:29:11 PM
I mean, again, I really hope this is true. I'd prefer a real investigative journalist on the case, but she'll do.
The concern is, if she's willing to turn Jane Fonda for a few 'mouth on a stick' interviews, how can we trust her impartiality?
But if a thorough job is done she will find why Leonor did a stretch in the jug - not nearly long enough though.


Edit: maybe she could start by looking at who employed and paid for Leonor's appeal lawyer - and why.

I think we would all like to see the Cipriano case looked at again. Problem is...there was a Portuguese poster here who seemed quite knowledgeable. He said ther had never been a successful appeal in Portugal...that has to be because their system is just perfect...or they simply don't admit to them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 10, 2020, 01:36:02 PM
I think we would all like to see the Cipriano case looked at again. Problem is...there was a Portuguese poster here who seemed quite knowledgeable. He said ther had never been a successful appeal in Portugal...that has to be because their system is just perfect...or they simply don't admit to them
....or some of the appeals are being argued by incompetent marionettes?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 01:38:42 PM
....or some of the appeals are being argued by incompetent marionettes?

I find it odd but he claimed there were no successful appeals...ciprianos conviction should have gone to the ECHR..unfair trial... torture
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 10, 2020, 02:03:31 PM
I find it odd but he claimed there were no successful appeals...ciprianos conviction should have gone to the ECHR..unfair trial... torture
Well, as we know, they're two very succinct concepts - unfair trial and guilt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 02:07:08 PM
Well, as we know, they're two very succinct concepts - unfair trial and guilt.

There is also Total Lack of Forensics.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2020, 02:14:00 PM
I feel quite sorry for her.  Portugal had long been brainwashed by the likes of Amaral and lived in fear of speaking out because nasty things could happen to them.

Now, she at least has the power of The Internet to protect her.  But no doubt she was shocked rigid at the time.

Even at this remove I think it was very courageous for her to use the Netflix opportunity to set the record straight when she branded Amaral a liar and made absolutely no bones about it.

She was also very very astute in choosing her moment and choosing it well using a vehicle which she knew for certain was going to resonate worldwide and all without the slightest ambiguity of affirming that Amaral was not and is not the credible persona he should have been and is, as some still try to pretend.

I think his cover has been blown to a world audience and I think that the chinks in his armour will sooner rather than later dawn on the Portuguese people he used journalists like Sandra Felguieras to brainwash.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 02:21:59 PM
Even at this remove I think it was very courageous for her to use the Netflix opportunity to set the record straight when she branded Amaral a liar and made absolutely no bones about it.

She was also very very astute in choosing her moment and choosing it well using a vehicle which she knew for certain was going to resonate worldwide and all without the slightest ambiguity of affirming that Amaral was not and is not the credible persona he should have been and is, as some still try to pretend.

I think his cover has been blown to a world audience and I think that the chinks in his armour will sooner rather than later dawn on the Portuguese people he used journalists like Sandra Felguieras to brainwash.

In fact it is all looking good for Portugal in The 21st Century, due to a brave woman who admitted that she had been duped.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 02:42:14 PM
Even at this remove I think it was very courageous for her to use the Netflix opportunity to set the record straight when she branded Amaral a liar and made absolutely no bones about it.

She was also very very astute in choosing her moment and choosing it well using a vehicle which she knew for certain was going to resonate worldwide and all without the slightest ambiguity of affirming that Amaral was not and is not the credible persona he should have been and is, as some still try to pretend.

I think his cover has been blown to a world audience and I think that the chinks in his armour will sooner rather than later dawn on the Portuguese people he used journalists like Sandra Felguieras to brainwash.
I wonder why Amaral hasn't sued her for slander, for libel and for not believing all the things in the Bible (aka "The Truth of the Lie (sic)"
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2020, 02:45:26 PM
In fact it is all looking good for Portugal in The 21st Century, due to a brave woman who admitted that she had been duped.

I really do think she took a monumental risk.  A personal as well as a professional one.  At the time of the Netflix broadcasts it was still just the same old, same old with the fora myth continuing to be propagated along the lines of Scotland Yard using their time there profitably only as far as working on their tans was concerned.

Now we know for certain they were and are working their wee cotton socks off on Madeleine's case.

I couldn't possibly say who that shows up for complete idiots but it sure ain't Felguieras or Scotland Yard ... in my opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 02:50:28 PM
In fact it is all looking good for Portugal in The 21st Century, due to a brave woman who admitted that she had been duped.

So what has changed since SF made her opportunistic switch ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 02:59:05 PM
I wonder why Amaral hasn't sued her for slander, for libel and for not believing all the things in the Bible (aka "The Truth of the Lie (sic)"

I thought Slander and Libel were okay in Portugal.  Amaral can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
So what has changed since SF made her opportunistic switch ?

Portugal is waking up to what has been going on.  What with Torture and Perjury and all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2020, 03:04:49 PM
I wonder why Amaral hasn't sued her for slander, for libel and for not believing all the things in the Bible (aka "The Truth of the Lie (sic)"

Her allegations strike at the heart of Amaral's 'thesis' particularly as she says on the Netflix documentary that she realised that because of Amaral's insistence that her parents had a hand in her death Madeleine had been deprived of being looked for despite there being a slight chance she could still be alive.

She said that caused her deep anger.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 03:24:33 PM
Her allegations strike at the heart of Amaral's 'thesis' particularly as she says on the Netflix documentary that she realised that because of Amaral's insistence that her parents had a hand in her death Madeleine had been deprived of being looked for despite there being a slight chance she could still be alive.

She said that caused her deep anger.

Pigeons and such.  And it didn't do a lot for The McCanns either, in their search.

I try not to dwell on it too much.  Madeleine wasn't, isn't my child.  But I remain appalled by the perfidy.

His Investigation sucker punched Leonor Cipriano and I suspect that he intended the same for Kate McCann. 

At the moment I can only put it down to his hatred of women, although I suspect that there might be more to it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 04:46:29 PM
Portugal is waking up to what has been going on.  What with Torture and Perjury and all.

In what way ? Are you really suggesting that one rather opportunistic journalist’s road to Damascus moment will make even an atom of difference to Portugal as a whole ? Surely you’re too intelligent for that Eleanor?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 04:47:31 PM
Her allegations strike at the heart of Amaral's 'thesis' particularly as she says on the Netflix documentary that she realised that because of Amaral's insistence that her parents had a hand in her death Madeleine had been deprived of being looked for despite there being a slight chance she could still be alive.

She said that caused her deep anger.

Of course it did and that’s why she put them through a highly combative interview 15 months later.

Imagine if she’d said that she still believed that the parents were guilty. How much airtime do you think she would have got then ?

Poor Sandra....selling her credibility to the highest bidder.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 04:53:19 PM
In what way ? Are you really suggesting that one rather opportunistic journalist’s road to Damascus moment will make even an atom of difference to Portugal as a whole ? Surely you’re too intelligent for that Eleanor?

Saul didn't do too badly, so don't knock it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2020, 05:11:30 PM
Pigeons and such.  And it didn't do a lot for The McCanns either, in their search.

I try not to dwell on it too much.  Madeleine wasn't, isn't my child.  But I remain appalled by the perfidy.

His Investigation sucker punched Leonor Cipriano and I suspect that he intended the same for Kate McCann. 

At the moment I can only put it down to his hatred of women, although I suspect that there might be more to it.

The problem with choosing your target then homing in on it and sticking with it come what may as was done with the Cipriano and McCann cases is that while it boosts the 'detection' figures but at the same time lends nothing to actually solving the crime.

In my opinion it was only because Amaral was unable to use the same coercion measures on Kate McCann as used on Leonor Cipriano that he didn't have another 'successful' case attributed to him but as a direct result, yet another perpetrator or even perhaps the same perpetrator free to walk the streets of the Algarve villages.

It is yet to be decided whether or not Brueckner is implicated in Madeleine's disappearance but I think it could be safely argued that without the continuing search for Madeleine this rapist would not be safely under lock and key but would be enjoying his freedom and whatever else comes with that.

I am bemused that prejudice certainly not evidence and certainly not proof fuels the satisfaction that Leanor Cipriano has been incarcerated over the same period that Brueckner and many like him have been free to keep doing whatever it is they do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 05:18:08 PM
Saul didn't do too badly, so don't knock it.

Saul ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 05:23:31 PM
Saul ?

You mean you've never heard about Saul on The Road to Damascus.  Saul was the original.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 05:24:36 PM
The problem with choosing your target then homing in on it and sticking with it come what may as was done with the Cipriano and McCann cases is that while it boosts the 'detection' figures but at the same time lends nothing to actually solving the crime.

In my opinion it was only because Amaral was unable to use the same coercion measures on Kate McCann as used on Leonor Cipriano that he didn't have another 'successful' case attributed to him but as a direct result, yet another perpetrator or even perhaps the same perpetrator free to walk the streets of the Algarve villages.

It is yet to be decided whether or not Brueckner is implicated in Madeleine's disappearance but I think it could be safely argued that without the continuing search for Madeleine this rapist would not be safely under lock and key but would be enjoying his freedom and whatever else comes with that.

I am bemused that prejudice certainly not evidence and certainly not proof fuels the satisfaction that Leanor Cipriano has been incarcerated over the same period that Brueckner and many like him have been free to keep doing whatever it is they do.

Brueckner is in prison for drug offences and the rape in 2005 of an elderly lady. It has absolutely nothing to do with the search for Madeleine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 05:31:25 PM
You mean you've never heard about Saul on The Road to Damascus.  Saul was the original.

Ah...right.

Did he interview what he thought was a grieving couple in a very combative manner ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 05:38:50 PM
Ah...right.

Did he interview what he thought was a grieving couple in a very combative manner ?

Much worse than that, until he saw The Light and then became a much loved saint.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2020, 05:40:44 PM
You mean you've never heard about Saul on The Road to Damascus.  Saul was the original.

As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.
Acts 9: 3 - 7
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 05:43:09 PM
Much worse than that, until he saw The Light and then became a much loved saint.

No I mean after he saw the light....like SF.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 05:45:51 PM
To suggest that SF ever persecuted the McCanns is just plain idiotic IMO.  She was “only asking questions”, isn’t that something sceptics view as an innocent and harmless activity?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 05:46:29 PM
No I mean after he saw the light....like SF.

Did she?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 05:56:33 PM
Did she?

Surely you don’t think that she didn’t read the files when they were released on the DVD ? Really ?

Here’s what I don’t understand. As a supporter I would have been very unhappy about the way SF questioned the parents but would understand her position as she was sceptical with regard to the parent’s part in Madeleine’s disappearance. That we are now told that she knew there was no evidence against the parents, forensically at least, when carrying out the interview as a supporter I would trust her not one jot.

Oh well, none so blind.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 06:04:51 PM
Surely you don’t think that she didn’t read the files when they were released on the DVD ? Really ?

Here’s what I don’t understand. As a supporter I would have been very unhappy about the way SF questioned the parents but would understand her position as she was sceptical with regard to the parent’s part in Madeleine’s disappearance. That we are now told that she knew there was no evidence against the parents, forensically at least, when carrying out the interview as a supporter I would trust her not one jot.

Oh well, none so blind.

We are told that she knew?  No one told me so I don't know what she knew.

And anyway, I am much more interested in what Amaral thought he was doing by using her to spread disinformation.  That is a very nasty fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 06:16:15 PM
We are told that she knew?  No one told me so I don't know what she knew.

And anyway, I am much more interested in what Amaral thought he was doing by using her to spread disinformation.  That is a very nasty fact.

Every journalist had the DVD in July 2008....of course she knew.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 06:20:43 PM
Every journalist had the DVD in July 2008....of course she knew.


Your posts are sounding obsessive and out of touch with reality...very odd
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 06:26:06 PM
Perhaps Davel you could send her a link to this thread, as her integrity is being called into question she might like to have her say, or send a Cease and Desist.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 06:29:07 PM
Perhaps Davel you could send her a link to this thread, as her integrity is being called into question she might like to have her say, or send a Cease and Desist.

Tbh....I doubt she would lower herself
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 06:32:45 PM
Tbh....I doubt she would lower herself

Howzat!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 07:11:23 PM
I just got a warning for “generalising”.   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 07:14:03 PM
Generalising -
make a general or broad statement by inferring from specific cases.

Folks, don’t be tempted to follow my example and generalise, it’s against forum rules now.

What next?  A warning for asking a rhetorical question maybe?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 07:24:44 PM
I just got a warning for “generalising”.   @)(++(*
You know where you went wrong for you asked to be reprimanded.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 07:26:44 PM
Davel's communication with SF.  I'll leave it to the forum to comprehend what it all means.

(https://i.imgur.com/o0OwxUh.png)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2020, 07:33:46 PM
Davel's communication with SF.  I'll leave it to the forum to comprehend what it all means.

(https://i.imgur.com/o0OwxUh.png)

I didn't mean you to post it...just to confirm its existence and content
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 07:40:09 PM
It looks OK to me.   I'll vouch it came from you. It seems genuine.    Nothing about it points to you. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 07:49:15 PM
Generalising -
make a general or broad statement by inferring from specific cases.

Folks, don’t be tempted to follow my example and generalise, it’s against forum rules now.

What next?  A warning for asking a rhetorical question maybe?
Can you remember the specific generalisation you made?   It was that specific generalisation that you made that was unsuitable on the forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 07:49:54 PM
Can you remember the specific generalisation you made?   It was that specific generalisation that you made that was unsuitable on the forum.
No, but I’m sure it was really really bad and deeply offensive.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 07:52:52 PM
No, but I’m sure it was really really bad and deeply offensive.
I have to look after everyone on the forum.  So you can't call one group out with insults and expect not to be reprimanded.  You asked for it. in fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 10, 2020, 08:26:45 PM
Davel's communication with SF.  I'll leave it to the forum to comprehend what it all means.


Well there you have it. I mean, I thought it was a joke.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 10, 2020, 09:56:00 PM
Davel's communication with SF.  I'll leave it to the forum to comprehend what it all means.

(https://i.imgur.com/o0OwxUh.png)

I think I missed that interview with Kate & Garry.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 10, 2020, 10:30:36 PM
I think I missed that interview with Kate & Garry.
Is this the interview in question?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4EIxwtAJF8

Did Goncalo ever raise the issue of the "pact of silence"?    That was the touchy bit in that interview.

https://youtu.be/E4EIxwtAJF8?t=333  to go straight to it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 10:47:35 PM
Is this the interview in question?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4EIxwtAJF8

Did Goncalo ever raise the issue of the "pact of silence"?    That was the touchy bit in that interview.

https://youtu.be/E4EIxwtAJF8?t=333  to go straight to it.

Thank you for that.  It's the first time I have seen it.  And what a colossal fuss about nothing much at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 10, 2020, 11:02:46 PM
I didn't mean you to post it...just to confirm its existence and content

Brilliant...from her own mouth.

The world and his wife knew by November 2009 that the forensics in the case did not corroborate the dog alerts yet although SF had access to the files on the day they were released she failed to discover this widely known fact for over 15 months.

There’s one thing I’ll say about her...she doesn’t mind looking stupid.

Poor Sandra.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2020, 11:15:26 PM
Oh well, even stupid old Sandra finally heard the penny drop, unlike a large number of even stupider sceptics who still seem to believe Madeleine’s DNA was found in the boot of the car.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2020, 11:21:02 PM
Oh well, even stupid old Sandra finally heard the penny drop, unlike a large number of even stupider sceptics who still seem to believe Madeleine’s DNA was found in the boot of the car.

Now there's a thought.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 11, 2020, 08:13:49 AM
Brilliant...from her own mouth.

The world and his wife knew by November 2009 that the forensics in the case did not corroborate the dog alerts yet although SF had access to the files on the day they were released she failed to discover this widely known fact for over 15 months.

There’s one thing I’ll say about her...she doesn’t mind looking stupid.

Poor Sandra.

I say the same as VS...there are posters here for whom the penny hasnt dropped in 13 years....do you refer to them as being even more stupid...interesting
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 11, 2020, 08:32:38 AM
I say the same as VS...there are posters here for whom the penny hasnt dropped in 13 years....do you refer to them as being even more stupid...interesting

I found myself on a Sandra Felguieras Twitter feed last night and despite the fact she has a great deal of support for her firsthand account of events there is exactly the same belief (translated from Portuguese) in the the dogs, the blood splattered apartment and the DNA in the boot et al that is common currency here.

As far as I can see many of these people have at some time in the past learned to do joined up writing ... so what is their excuse?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 11, 2020, 08:39:23 AM
I found myself on a Sandra Felguieras Twitter feed last night and despite the fact she has a great deal of support for her firsthand account of events there is exactly the same belief (translated from Portuguese) in the the dogs, the blood splattered apartment and the DNA in the boot et al that is common currency here.

As far as I can see many of these people have at some time in the past learned to do joined up writing ... so what is their excuse?

I think we have to be grateful to faith for highlighting what she refers to as Sandra's "stupidity"....I doubt she realised the ramifications of her argumnet. What does it say for supercop amaral and the rest of the pj who supported him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 11, 2020, 09:55:44 AM
I think we have to be grateful to faith for highlighting what she refers to as Sandra's "stupidity"....I doubt she realised the ramifications of her argumnet. What does it say for supercop amaral and the rest of the pj who supported him.

I think that initially when Amaral chose to interject a spoiler or two into the German investigation he was listened to as despite retiring thirteen years ago he still seemed to be in the loop. 

But my impression from reading the Google translations of the Portuguese press now is that he has shot his bolt on that one, I think when it became apparent that the Judicial Police were also carrying out their own searches people began to think about it.

Brueckner's rap sheet is not a pretty one and must make uncomfortable reading particularly for law abiding citizens living and working in the areas he is known to have frequented.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 11, 2020, 10:00:36 AM
I say the same as VS...there are posters here for whom the penny hasnt dropped in 13 years....do you refer to them as being even more stupid...interesting

They’d certainly be rather dim. Let’s put it this way, I don’t think they’d be safe around matches.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
They’d certainly be rather dim. Let’s put it this way, I don’t think they’d be safe around matches.

They are unlikely to set this Forum on fire.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 11, 2020, 10:11:02 AM
I think we have to be grateful to faith for highlighting what she refers to as Sandra's "stupidity"....I doubt she realised the ramifications of her argumnet. What does it say for supercop amaral and the rest of the pj who supported him.

Old news. SF was supportive ( pragmatically) of the PJ under Amaral and interestingly didn’t change her stance under Rebelo. The case closed, the files were released and even then she didn’t change her stance for over 15 MONTHS. In fact she was so rabid that there was talk of the parents suing her.

As a journalist if she didn’t realise the ramifications of her actions, the misery she was causing the parents then she really does need to choose another profession.

Poor Sandra.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 11, 2020, 10:11:50 AM
They are unlikely to set this Forum on fire.

Is anyone ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2020, 10:13:06 AM
I think that initially when Amaral chose to interject a spoiler or two into the German investigation he was listened to as despite retiring thirteen years ago he still seemed to be in the loop. 

But my impression from reading the Google translations of the Portuguese press now is that he has shot his bolt on that one, I think when it became apparent that the Judicial Police were also carrying out their own searches people began to think about it.

Brueckner's rap sheet is not a pretty one and must make uncomfortable reading particularly for law abiding citizens living and working in the areas he is known to have frequented.

Which searches did the Judicial Police carry out?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 11, 2020, 10:13:48 AM
I think that initially when Amaral chose to interject a spoiler or two into the German investigation he was listened to as despite retiring thirteen years ago he still seemed to be in the loop. 

But my impression from reading the Google translations of the Portuguese press now is that he has shot his bolt on that one, I think when it became apparent that the Judicial Police were also carrying out their own searches people began to think about it.

Brueckner's rap sheet is not a pretty one and must make uncomfortable reading particularly for law abiding citizens living and working in the areas he is known to have frequented.

Surely they’re used to it ? According to some the Algarve is teeming with Brueckner’s sort.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 11, 2020, 10:27:40 AM
if there had been another police  officer   ie not   GA  on the scene  the night maddie vanished  would mcann supporters hate  him/her    if they had the  same opinion as GA  like many portugese  police   did??
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 11, 2020, 10:30:51 AM
They are unlikely to set this Forum on fire.

Not unless the time warp they are trapped in overheats.  One contributor to Sandra Feguieras twitter feed actually has included a link to torturer, http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2140.msg71033#msg71033 Tavares de Almeida's interim report ☺.

I would say that the Amaral support and Amaral himself, is a tad concerned that a viable alternative to their wildest dreams has actually turned up.  They never expected that and even if it proves to be the key to unlocking what happened to Madeleine, they just don't like it one little bit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 10:33:28 AM
Is anyone ?

Well, there's always me, and a couple of others of my ilk.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 10:35:12 AM
Surely they’re used to it ? According to some the Algarve is teeming with Brueckner’s sort.

I remember laughing many moons ago when someone suggested this.

Sadly, it was true.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 11, 2020, 10:35:24 AM
if there had been another police  officer   ie not   GA  on the scene  the night maddie vanished  would mcann supporters hate  him/her    if they had the  same opinion as GA  like many portugese  police   did??

Amaral wasn't at the scene the night Madeleine vanished.  I believe he drove directly home from dinner.  The following day he was being made an arguido in a torture case ... so I've no idea when he did eventually turn up.

Have you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 10:38:14 AM
if there had been another police  officer   ie not   GA  on the scene  the night maddie vanished  would mcann supporters hate  him/her    if they had the  same opinion as GA  like many portugese  police   did??

They were all wrong of course, so who knows?  But how long did it take for Amaral to actually visit The Scene?

Sooner might have helped.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 11, 2020, 10:40:00 AM
I remember laughing many moons ago when someone suggested this.

Sadly, it was true.

Amaral knew it.  I can't remember if it was 100 or 600 but he claimed Brueckner's name was one of a list of offenders.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 10:46:18 AM
Not unless the time warp they are trapped in overheats.  One contributor to Sandra Feguieras twitter feed actually has included a link to torturer, http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2140.msg71033#msg71033 Tavares de Almeida's interim report ☺.

I would say that the Amaral support and Amaral himself, is a tad concerned that a viable alternative to their wildest dreams has actually turned up.  They never expected that and even if it proves to be the key to unlocking what happened to Madeleine, they just don't like it one little bit.

But but, he is Innocent Until Proven Guilty, unlike The McCanns.  That's the bit that amuses me.  If only it were funny.

Still, better late than never.  Eh What!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 11, 2020, 10:47:25 AM
I remember laughing many moons ago when someone suggested this.

Sadly, it was true.

Yes, there's plenty of evidence paedos are rampant around PDL.

You only have look at the shear amount of children they've abducted there.

About none isn't it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 10:50:17 AM
Amaral knew it.  I can't remember if it was 100 or 600 but he claimed Brueckner's name was one of a list of offenders.

How very silly I was in those days.  Portugal was a Paedo Paradise.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 10:52:13 AM
Yes, there's plenty of evidence paedos are rampant around PDL.

You only have look at the shear amount of children they've abducted there.

About none isn't it?

They confined their activities to breaking into children's bedrooms in the middle of the night.  Very sensible if you ask me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 11, 2020, 10:55:57 AM
They confined their activities to breaking into children's bedrooms in the middle of the night.  Very sensible if you ask me.

How many were doing that?

About one isn't it? (If it ever actually happened, which I don't believe)

And what about Brueckner, I wonder how many children he molested in PDL?

About none isn't it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 11:02:57 AM
How many were doing that?

About one isn't it? (If it ever actually happened, which I don't believe)

And what about Brueckner, I wonder how many children he molested in PDL?

About none isn't it?

No one knows.  Amaral never bothered to find out.  He was too busy being charged and convicted with Perjury.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2020, 11:03:57 AM
Not unless the time warp they are trapped in overheats.  One contributor to Sandra Feguieras twitter feed actually has included a link to torturer, http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2140.msg71033#msg71033 Tavares de Almeida's interim report ☺.

I would say that the Amaral support and Amaral himself, is a tad concerned that a viable alternative to their wildest dreams has actually turned up.  They never expected that and even if it proves to be the key to unlocking what happened to Madeleine, they just don't like it one little bit.

I don't know what happened to Madeleine McCann; only anyone involved does know. All else is speculation, including whether a viable alternative to Amaral's thesis has 'turned up'.

In my opinion some people are getting over-excited and are pinning too much hope on what is at moment an alternative thesis with very little known evidence to support it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 11, 2020, 11:08:24 AM
Amaral wasn't at the scene the night Madeleine vanished.  I believe he drove directly home from dinner.  The following day he was being made an arguido in a torture case ... so I've no idea when he did eventually turn up.

Have you?

He drove home?   I thought his excuse for not turning up was because he'd been drinking and couldn't drive?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 11, 2020, 11:11:11 AM
How many were doing that?

About one isn't it? (If it ever actually happened, which I don't believe)

And what about Brueckner, I wonder how many children he molested in PDL?

About none isn't it?


'If it actually happened'  what are you talking about,  it did happen,  OG were searching for the man.   The Portuguese police have DNA or the German Police wouldn't be asking for it.

Brueckner could have been the man breaking into the apartments and molesting those children.   You know nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 11, 2020, 11:13:55 AM
Yes, there's plenty of evidence paedos are rampant around PDL.

You only have look at the shear amount of children they've abducted there.

About none isn't it?


Are you saying that you don't believe there are plenty of paedo's around PDL because of the amount of children that have been abducted?   Unbelievable,  but you do like to make statements that are meant to shock don't you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 11:22:18 AM
I don't know what happened to Madeleine McCann; only anyone involved does know. All else is speculation, including whether a viable alternative to Amaral's thesis has 'turned up'.

In my opinion some people are getting over-excited and are pinning too much hope on what is at moment an alternative thesis with very little known evidence to support it.

No one I know is getting excited.  And certainly not me.  Some of you tend to forget that Madeleine wasn't, isn't our child.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 11:24:54 AM

Are you saying that you don't believe there are plenty of paedo's around PDL because of the amount of children that have been abducted?   Unbelievable,  but you do like to make statements that are meant to shock don't you.

Don't worry about it, Lace.  No one takes Spammy seriously.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2020, 11:25:58 AM
They were all wrong of course, so who knows?  But how long did it take for Amaral to actually visit The Scene?

Sooner might have helped.

As a coordinator I imagine his job was to organise from his desk, rather than to wander around looking at things. Even so, he accompanied Encarnacao to PdL on the morning of May 4th.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 11:32:56 AM
As a coordinator I imagine his job was to organise from his desk, rather than to wander around looking at things. Even so, he accompanied Encarnacao to PdL on the morning of May 4th.

He didn't do a very good job of coordinating the rubbish found on his desk after he was sacked.

However, I didn't know that he visited PdL on The Fourth of May, if in fact he did.

I won't bother to ask for a Cite.  Demands for Cites are getting stupid.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 11, 2020, 11:56:01 AM

'If it actually happened'  what are you talking about,  it did happen,  OG were searching for the man.   The Portuguese police have DNA or the German Police wouldn't be asking for it.

Brueckner could have been the man breaking into the apartments and molesting those children.   You know nothing.

You know nothing actually no one really does.....apart from those involved.

You don't know CB abducted anyone or even if there was an abduction in the first place.

You know nothing apart from what you think happened.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2020, 12:03:02 PM
No one I know is getting excited.  And certainly not me.  Some of you tend to forget that Madeleine wasn't, isn't our child.

I have often wondered, in fact, how people can be apparently so emotionally involved in the disappearance of the child of strangers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 12:11:21 PM
I have often wondered, in fact, how people can be apparently so emotionally involved in the disappearance of the child of strangers.

Or why others hound and shame Madeleine's parents.  That is what worries me the most, mainly because it is so unkind.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 11, 2020, 12:13:54 PM
You know nothing actually no one really does.....apart from those involved.

You don't know CB abducted anyone or even if there was an abduction in the first place.

You know nothing apart from what you think happened.

Neither do you.   It's shocking that some,  think they know what happened without any proof at all and make the internet the place to broadcast to all and sundry that the McCann's are guilty.  Some saying very nasty disgusting things about the McCann's.   There is one particular forum who debated the photo of Madeleine playing with her mothers makeup and actually called it the Lolita photo,  another said Madeleine looked dead in the photo.  It makes your skin crawl.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 11, 2020, 12:19:47 PM
Well, there's always me, and a couple of others of my ilk.

Lovely as you are you are hardly a fire-lighter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 11, 2020, 12:23:20 PM
I have often wondered, in fact, how people can be apparently so emotionally involved in the disappearance of the child of strangers.

It's because you can connect as a parent,  imagine if it had been one of your children,  it's a parents worse nightmare.   Then on top of that be accused of having something to do with your child's disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2020, 01:00:20 PM
It's because you can connect as a parent,  imagine if it had been one of your children,  it's a parents worse nightmare.   Then on top of that be accused of having something to do with your child's disappearance.

All that follows after being convinced that the parents are right about Madeleine being abducted. For many reasons many people have not been convinced, including the initial investigating police force.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 01:04:44 PM
All that follows after being convinced that the parents are right about Madeleine being abducted. For many reasons many people have not been convinced, including the initial investigating police force.

The Police Force that has since been found to be incompetent.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 11, 2020, 01:11:54 PM
He drove home?   I thought his excuse for not turning up was because he'd been drinking and couldn't drive?

From his book I remember his account of having breakfast at home the next morning, I would need to read it over to see if that is so.
I know that his meal was late on when he got the message about Madeleine's disappearance but whether he drove himself home or had arranged to be driven by someone else I've no idea ... my wording of that in my post is a bit lax.

But neither do I have any idea when he arrived at the holiday apartment short of assuming it was not during the day of the 4th as he was probably otherwise engaged.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 11, 2020, 01:20:42 PM
All that follows after being convinced that the parents are right about Madeleine being abducted. For many reasons many people have not been convinced, including the initial investigating police force.

As has been pointed out by faith the initial police force should be regarded as stupid for not understanding the forensics and alerts they based their conclusions on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2020, 01:25:38 PM
The Police Force that has since been found to be incompetent.

In your opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 01:38:47 PM
Yes, there's plenty of evidence paedos are rampant around PDL.

You only have look at the shear amount of children they've abducted there.

About none isn't it?
Even Amaral admits the place is swarming with paedos, how come you know it's not?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 01:42:38 PM
I have often wondered, in fact, how people can be apparently so emotionally involved in the disappearance of the child of strangers.
You've been following this case for years - do you feel nothing about it at all?  I watched the series about the Iraq War which came to an end yesterday - it stirred plenty of emotion in me and Ive never been to Iraq and don't know any Iraqis - does that make me weird, or just a human being?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 01:44:30 PM
In your opinion.

Really?  Rest assured I am not alone by a long chalk.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2020, 02:12:02 PM
You've been following this case for years - do you feel nothing about it at all?  I watched the series about the Iraq War which came to an end yesterday - it stirred plenty of emotion in me and Ive never been to Iraq and don't know any Iraqis - does that make me weird, or just a human being?

I feel very sad for the victim; the poor child who is at the heart of the mystery.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 11, 2020, 02:49:22 PM
Really?  Rest assured I am not alone by a long chalk.

Does that make you right?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 11, 2020, 02:51:22 PM
You've been following this case for years - do you feel nothing about it at all?  I watched the series about the Iraq War which came to an end yesterday - it stirred plenty of emotion in me and Ive never been to Iraq and don't know any Iraqis - does that make me weird, or just a human being?

I've watched that as well, it was a total feck up from the start by the Americans abetted by our Tone, sympathy was what I felt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 11, 2020, 02:54:55 PM
I have often wondered, in fact, how people can be apparently so emotionally involved in the disappearance of the child of strangers.

you are making a massive assumption..speak for yourself...I'm just interested. Do you feel emotionally involved?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2020, 03:11:14 PM
Does that make you right?

It certainly doesn't make me wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 05:06:04 PM
I feel very sad for the victim; the poor child who is at the heart of the mystery.
Then you will understand how people can get emotionally involved in the lives of those they have never met and have no connection to.  Why you felt it necessary to wonder about I’m really not sure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 05:06:53 PM
I've watched that as well, it was a total feck up from the start by the Americans abetted by our Tone, sympathy was what I felt.
sympathy, rage, revulsion, sorrow.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on August 11, 2020, 06:21:48 PM
Brueckner is in prison for drug offences and the rape in 2005 of an elderly lady. It has absolutely nothing to do with the search for Madeleine.

I agree. There is no evidence that Brueckner has ever killed anyone. It's a big step to go from being a paedophile and a rapist to being a child killer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 11, 2020, 06:26:02 PM
I agree. There is no evidence that Brueckner has ever killed anyone. It's a big step to go from being a paedophile and a rapist to being a child killer.

Or child trafficker.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 11, 2020, 06:31:16 PM
I agree. There is no evidence that Brueckner has ever killed anyone. It's a big step to go from being a paedophile and a rapist to being a child killer.

Absolutely irrelevant . There is a time when every killer has never killed anyone....Ian Huntley killed two having never killed before. Going from having killed no one to having killed is a  step every killer takes.

amaral describes Breukner as the perfect suspect...he's right for once
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 06:43:29 PM
I agree. There is no evidence that Brueckner has ever killed anyone. It's a big step to go from being a paedophile and a rapist to being a child killer.
The woman he violently raped was terrified he was going to kill her.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 06:54:00 PM
I agree. There is no evidence that Brueckner has ever killed anyone. It's a big step to go from being a paedophile and a rapist to being a child killer.
you should have watched the Parachute Murder plot last night.  Bloke never killed anyone before, never been in trouble with the law, propr ladies man and charmer tried to kill his wife not one but twice.  How do you account for such a big step?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 07:04:46 PM
.deleted.
Of course.  Blame the victim, she deserved to die for being a bitch, whereas he was driven to despair by her affairs and demands for sex more than twice a week.  Except it was the other way around but never mind, you wouldn’t understand.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 11, 2020, 07:14:31 PM
Of course.  Blame the victim, she deserved to die for being a bitch, whereas he was driven to despair by her affairs and demands for sex more than twice a week.  Except it was the other way around but never mind, you wouldn’t understand.

If he was such a problem husband for her then maybe she should have just left him, then he wouldn't have had to try & kill her.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 11, 2020, 07:15:54 PM
.deleted.

Is that the same argument put forward for Gerry not being involved in Madeleine’s disappearance....never been in trouble with the law, no one had a bad word to say about him....blah, blah, blah.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: puglove on August 11, 2020, 07:45:55 PM
.deleted.

Then leave her, instead of being a massive cowardly b........ and nearly murdering your children by causing a gas leak.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 08:15:01 PM
If he was such a problem husband for her then maybe she should have just left him, then he wouldn't have had to try & kill her.
You need to read up on the case before commenting as you’re just looking (even more) stupid and insensitive now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 08:15:50 PM
Then leave her, instead of being a massive cowardly b........ and nearly murdering your children by causing a gas leak.
He needed the money, having run up huge debts on hookers among other things.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 11, 2020, 08:24:06 PM
You need to read up on the case before commenting as you’re just looking (even more) stupid and insensitive now.

I've absolutely no interest in either the case or looking sensitive.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 08:32:04 PM
I've absolutely no interest in either the case or looking sensitive.
Stop commenting on it then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 11, 2020, 08:34:45 PM
Stop commenting on it then.

No.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2020, 08:36:31 PM
No.
Suit yourself.  Keep on commenting about a case you have no interest in
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on August 12, 2020, 08:34:32 AM
I've absolutely no interest in either the case or looking sensitive.
I beg to differ.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2020, 07:38:51 PM
Despite the Google translation ... I found the following interesting.

Maddie: Sampaio criticizes former PJ director
Writing with SM on July 25, 2008 at 08:40

Jorge Sampaio criticized the statements of the former director of the PJ regarding the filing of the Maddie case.
«What I find truly unusual, from the point of view of the institutions and the prestige that we have to defend before the foreigner, is that the former director of the PJ, Deputy Attorney General, comes to criticize the filing when he was managing this process and I assume that the defendant's constitution was not entirely unknown to him.

I find this an astonishing thing from the point of view of removing the carpet from fellow successors in office. There is no democracy to justify this, ”he said in an interview with Sic .

The former President of the Republic also said that it is important to defend Portuguese judicial institutions. «They are highly trained people, people who are not corrupt. You can be wrong because the process is heavy, but there are serious people in this », he said.

Sampaio also criticized the way the first days of the case were conducted with regard to relations with the media.
“I was surprised that in the first 20 days there was no public relations policy, which the Criminal Procedure Code does not prohibit, in the face of the delirium of outdoor cars, tabloids everywhere.
The difficulty of explaining the Portuguese system to the English system was not assumed and should have been. That emptiness, in my opinion, put the country's prestige in a very difficult situation ».

Regarding Gonçalo Amaral's book, the ex-President considers that
"if he has this thesis, or is just a thesis of his conjecture or has important factual data for the reopening of this instruction", then he must present them "and do not leave here an aroma of deviations, of apparently political connotations that are also serious for the country ».

"It is unusual that a man, who is certainly angry, for having been removed from the investigation" is not called to testify, he said.

IOL PortugalDiário recalls that the lawsuit about Maddie's disappearance was closed and that Kate and Gerry McCann, like Robert Murat, were no longer accused as of July 21. Maddie's parents have also announced that they will sue ex-PJ Gonçalo Amaral following the publication of the book «Maddie: Verdade da Mentira».
This text was written under the new Orthographic Agreement
https://www.lux.iol.pt/politica/goncalo-amaral/maddie-sampaio-critica-ex-director-da-pj
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 16, 2020, 08:16:35 PM
Judite de Sousa: Gonçalo, explain me one issue. In your point of view, what are the reasons that led the National Judiciary Police Directorate to send to Oporto the Maddie McCann case?
Gonçalo Amaral: The reasons? They were justified by Dr. Pedro do Carmo, because of the distance, because of the geographical distance, the distance in terms of people, but in terms of competence...

JS: And what do those reasons tell you?
GA: In Lisbon, for example the former DCCB7, the current National Unit Against Terrorism have much more experienced people - I'm not talking about competence - but much more experienced people in the area of abductions, kidnappings, disappearances and so on, than Oporto has. Oporto only has...

JS: So, you don't understand that decision?
GA: My colleague, that I know very well, Dr. H ...  ...  ...        Translation by Morais



Amaral seems to think that Lisbon would be better disposed to conducting the re-opened investigation into Madeleine McCann's case than Oporto because they have more experience in ~ "abductions" and ~ "kidnappings".

There you are, then 🙃
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 16, 2020, 09:33:15 PM
Judite de Sousa: Gonçalo, explain me one issue. In your point of view, what are the reasons that led the National Judiciary Police Directorate to send to Oporto the Maddie McCann case?
Gonçalo Amaral: The reasons? They were justified by Dr. Pedro do Carmo, because of the distance, because of the geographical distance, the distance in terms of people, but in terms of competence...

JS: And what do those reasons tell you?
GA: In Lisbon, for example the former DCCB7, the current National Unit Against Terrorism have much more experienced people - I'm not talking about competence - but much more experienced people in the area of abductions, kidnappings, disappearances and so on, than Oporto has. Oporto only has...

JS: So, you don't understand that decision?
GA: My colleague, that I know very well, Dr. H ...  ...  ...        Translation by Morais

Amaral seems to think that Lisbon would be better disposed to conducting the re-opened investigation into Madeleine McCann's case than Oporto because they have more experience in ~ "abductions" and ~ "kidnappings".

There you are, then 🙃

Were they talking about the team which reviewed the case before it was reopened?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 08:21:14 AM
As a coordinator I imagine his job was to organise from his desk, rather than to wander around looking at things. Even so, he accompanied Encarnacao to PdL on the morning of May 4th.

How could amaral and his taem make any progress when he believed that dog alerts proved maddie died in the apartment. This is  a massive error of understanding which proves incompetence.

The present German and SY quite rightly are prepared to ignore the alerts. If maddie was the victim of a stranger abduction her body would have been removed immediately with no time for cadaver odour to develop
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 17, 2020, 09:42:02 AM
i just wanted to   say it is  40 years ago today since azaria chamberlian  was  taken by a  dingo the australian NT  police  totally messed  up  that  case     may  azaria  rest in peace   xx
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 17, 2020, 10:04:35 AM
i just wanted to   say it is  40 years ago today since azaria chamberlian  was  taken by a  dingo the australian NT  police  totally messed  up  that  case     may  azaria  rest in peace   xx
A great reminder how miscarriages of justice can take place against innocent mothers by a less than competent judicial system, thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 17, 2020, 10:05:26 AM
How could amaral and his taem make any progress when he believed that dog alerts proved maddie died in the apartment. This is  a massive error of understanding which proves incompetence.

The present German and SY quite rightly are prepared to ignore the alerts. If maddie was the victim of a stranger abduction her body would have been removed immediately with no time for cadaver odour to develop

It wasnt just dog alerts was it...there was a lot more circumst[ censored word]tarting with the conflicting statements.

Statements that were never backed up with proof it seems ....no reconstruction ect ect.

Its like what do you make of this.

The police who searched the house the McCanns were occupying, in particular their bedroom - the room where Gerald set up his office - report that the father and the mother are reacting very differently to the trouble that has befallen them.

Kate seems to be in mourning: numerous photos of Madeleine are pinned to the wall or placed on her bedside table. Spaced between them - as though watching over the child's soul - a representation of a saint, a crucifix or a rosary can be seen. A bookmark bearing the effigy of a saint is slipped into a copy of the Bible, opening on the second book of Samuel, chapter XII, where the following verses can be read:

"[13] "I have sinned against the Lord," David said.
Nathan replied, "The Lord forgives you; you will not die. [14] But because you have shown such contempt for the Lord in doing this, your child will die." [15] Then Nathan went home.
The Lord caused the child that Uriah's wife had borne to David to become very ill.
[16] David prayed to God that the child would get well. He refused to eat anything and every night he went into his room and spent the night lying on the floor. [17] His court officials went to him and tried to make him get up, but he refused and would not eat anything with them. [18] A week later the child died, and David's officials were afraid to tell him the news. They said, "While the child was living, David wouldn't answer us when we spoke to him. How can we tell him that his child is dead? He might do himself some harm!"
[19] When David noticed them whispering to each other, he realized that the child had died. So he asked them, "Is the child dead?"
"Yes, he is," they answered.
[20] David got up from the floor, had a bath, combed his hair, and changed his clothes. Then he went and worshiped in the house of the Lord. When he returned to the palace, he asked for food and ate it as soon as it was served. [21] "We don't understand this," his officials said to him. "While the child was alive, you wept for him and would not eat; but as soon as he died, you got up and ate!"
[22] "Yes," David answered, "I did fast and weep while he was still alive. I thought that the Lord might be merciful to me and not let the child die. [23] But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Could I bring the child back to life? I will someday go to where he is, but he can never come back to me."
[24] Then David comforted his wife, Bathsheba. He had intercourse with her, and she bore a son, whom David named Solomon. The Lord loved the boy [25] and commanded the Prophet Nathan to name the boy Jedidiah, because the Lord loved him."1

For David life had to go on.

In contrast, in the part of the room occupied by Gerald, the walls are bare, cold, no photos of his daughter. It's here that he administers the Madeleine Fund, organises his very busy agenda and writes his blog. His current reading material - The Interpretation of Murder, by Jed Rubenfeld, Spirit Messenger, by Gordon Smith, It's Not About The Bike: My Journey Back To Life, by Lance Armstrong, - leaves nothing at all to the imagination about the drama the family is living through. With amazement the police officers discover a series of books and manuals exclusively intended for police services and government agencies.

- Missing and Abducted Children: A Law-Enforcement Guide to Case Investigation and Program Management, National Center for Missing & Exploited Children;

- Training Courses, CEOP 9Serious Organised Crime Agency - Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre);

- Making Every Child Matter...Everywhere, CEOP (Serious Organised Crime Agency - Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre).

Mark Harrison himself wonders how Gerald McCann could have obtained these books.

Notes:

1. I have used the Good News Bible for this passage.

 

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 17, 2020, 10:19:05 AM
A great reminder how miscarriages of justice can take place against innocent mothers by a less than competent judicial system, thanks for posting.

Yes there is one on tonight how the media ect set Christoper Jeffries up to look guilty ..when in fact he wasn't.

Yet at the time it seems the public because of brainwashing believed he was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 11:34:50 AM
It wasnt just dog alerts was it...there was a lot more circumst[ censored word]tarting with the conflicting statements.

Statements that were never backed up with proof it seems ....no reconstruction ect ect.

Its like what do you make of this.

The police who searched the house the McCanns were occupying, in particular their bedroom - the room where Gerald set up his office - report that the father and the mother are reacting very differently to the trouble that has befallen them.

Kate seems to be in mourning: numerous photos of Madeleine are pinned to the wall or placed on her bedside table. Spaced between them - as though watching over the child's soul - a representation of a saint, a crucifix or a rosary can be seen. A bookmark bearing the effigy of a saint is slipped into a copy of the Bible, opening on the second book of Samuel, chapter XII, where the following verses can be read:

"[13] "I have sinned against the Lord," David said.
Nathan replied, "The Lord forgives you; you will not die. [14] But because you have shown such contempt for the Lord in doing this, your child will die." [15] Then Nathan went home.
The Lord caused the child that Uriah's wife had borne to David to become very ill.
[16] David prayed to God that the child would get well. He refused to eat anything and every night he went into his room and spent the night lying on the floor. [17] His court officials went to him and tried to make him get up, but he refused and would not eat anything with them. [18] A week later the child died, and David's officials were afraid to tell him the news. They said, "While the child was living, David wouldn't answer us when we spoke to him. How can we tell him that his child is dead? He might do himself some harm!"
[19] When David noticed them whispering to each other, he realized that the child had died. So he asked them, "Is the child dead?"
"Yes, he is," they answered.
[20] David got up from the floor, had a bath, combed his hair, and changed his clothes. Then he went and worshiped in the house of the Lord. When he returned to the palace, he asked for food and ate it as soon as it was served. [21] "We don't understand this," his officials said to him. "While the child was alive, you wept for him and would not eat; but as soon as he died, you got up and ate!"
[22] "Yes," David answered, "I did fast and weep while he was still alive. I thought that the Lord might be merciful to me and not let the child die. [23] But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Could I bring the child back to life? I will someday go to where he is, but he can never come back to me."
[24] Then David comforted his wife, Bathsheba. He had intercourse with her, and she bore a son, whom David named Solomon. The Lord loved the boy [25] and commanded the Prophet Nathan to name the boy Jedidiah, because the Lord loved him."1

For David life had to go on.

In contrast, in the part of the room occupied by Gerald, the walls are bare, cold, no photos of his daughter. It's here that he administers the Madeleine Fund, organises his very busy agenda and writes his blog. His current reading material - The Interpretation of Murder, by Jed Rubenfeld, Spirit Messenger, by Gordon Smith, It's Not About The Bike: My Journey Back To Life, by Lance Armstrong, - leaves nothing at all to the imagination about the drama the family is living through. With amazement the police officers discover a series of books and manuals exclusively intended for police services and government agencies.

- Missing and Abducted Children: A Law-Enforcement Guide to Case Investigation and Program Management, National Center for Missing & Exploited Children;

- Training Courses, CEOP 9Serious Organised Crime Agency - Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre);

- Making Every Child Matter...Everywhere, CEOP (Serious Organised Crime Agency - Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre).

Mark Harrison himself wonders how Gerald McCann could have obtained these books.

Notes:

1. I have used the Good News Bible for this passage.

Almeida testified the main evidence was the dog alerts.

Inconsistencies in statements...the poor way the statements were recorded..
The rest is total codswallop..Gerry's hands on..would want professional information..cite for the comment by Harrison
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 11:39:05 AM
Yes there is one on tonight how the media ect set Christoper Jeffries up to look guilty ..when in fact he wasn't.

Yet at the time it seems the public because of brainwashing believed he was.

I think it's sceptics who have been brainwashed...in all cases it's important to look at the evidence..quotes from the Bible are not evidence..lol
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 17, 2020, 01:16:35 PM
Yes there is one on tonight how the media ect set Christoper Jeffries up to look guilty ..when in fact he wasn't.

Yet at the time it seems the public because of brainwashing believed he was.
Christopher Jeffries was treated much the same way as the McCanns were by the British media, and both he and Gerry were active campaigners for Hacked Off as a result - thanks for that reminder as well.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2020, 01:19:47 PM
Almeida testified the main evidence was the dog alerts.

Inconsistencies in statements...the poor way the statements were recorded..
The rest is total codswallop..Gerry's hands on..would want professional information..cite for the comment by Harrison

Of course it wasn't just the dog alerts. The PJ's suspicions were aroused long before the dogs alerted.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2020, 01:23:45 PM
It wasnt just dog alerts was it...there was a lot more circumst[ censored word]tarting with the conflicting statements.

Statements that were never backed up with proof it seems ....no reconstruction ect ect.

Its like what do you make of this.

The police who searched the house the McCanns were occupying, in particular their bedroom - the room where Gerald set up his office - report that the father and the mother are reacting very differently to the trouble that has befallen them.

Kate seems to be in mourning: numerous photos of Madeleine are pinned to the wall or placed on her bedside table. Spaced between them - as though watching over the child's soul - a representation of a saint, a crucifix or a rosary can be seen. A bookmark bearing the effigy of a saint is slipped into a copy of the Bible, opening on the second book of Samuel, chapter XII, where the following verses can be read:

"[13] "I have sinned against the Lord," David said.
Nathan replied, "The Lord forgives you; you will not die. [14] But because you have shown such contempt for the Lord in doing this, your child will die." [15] Then Nathan went home.
The Lord caused the child that Uriah's wife had borne to David to become very ill.
[16] David prayed to God that the child would get well. He refused to eat anything and every night he went into his room and spent the night lying on the floor. [17] His court officials went to him and tried to make him get up, but he refused and would not eat anything with them. [18] A week later the child died, and David's officials were afraid to tell him the news. They said, "While the child was living, David wouldn't answer us when we spoke to him. How can we tell him that his child is dead? He might do himself some harm!"
[19] When David noticed them whispering to each other, he realized that the child had died. So he asked them, "Is the child dead?"
"Yes, he is," they answered.
[20] David got up from the floor, had a bath, combed his hair, and changed his clothes. Then he went and worshiped in the house of the Lord. When he returned to the palace, he asked for food and ate it as soon as it was served. [21] "We don't understand this," his officials said to him. "While the child was alive, you wept for him and would not eat; but as soon as he died, you got up and ate!"
[22] "Yes," David answered, "I did fast and weep while he was still alive. I thought that the Lord might be merciful to me and not let the child die. [23] But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Could I bring the child back to life? I will someday go to where he is, but he can never come back to me."
[24] Then David comforted his wife, Bathsheba. He had intercourse with her, and she bore a son, whom David named Solomon. The Lord loved the boy [25] and commanded the Prophet Nathan to name the boy Jedidiah, because the Lord loved him."1

For David life had to go on.

In contrast, in the part of the room occupied by Gerald, the walls are bare, cold, no photos of his daughter. It's here that he administers the Madeleine Fund, organises his very busy agenda and writes his blog. His current reading material - The Interpretation of Murder, by Jed Rubenfeld, Spirit Messenger, by Gordon Smith, It's Not About The Bike: My Journey Back To Life, by Lance Armstrong, - leaves nothing at all to the imagination about the drama the family is living through. With amazement the police officers discover a series of books and manuals exclusively intended for police services and government agencies.

- Missing and Abducted Children: A Law-Enforcement Guide to Case Investigation and Program Management, National Center for Missing & Exploited Children;

- Training Courses, CEOP 9Serious Organised Crime Agency - Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre);

- Making Every Child Matter...Everywhere, CEOP (Serious Organised Crime Agency - Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre).

Mark Harrison himself wonders how Gerald McCann could have obtained these books.

Notes:

1. I have used the Good News Bible for this passage.

WOWWWW!  Not many shibboleths there that you have missed out.  Just a reminder of the mumbo jumbo which affected Amaral and his cohorts and led to them getting off on the wrong foot and the wrong track all at one and the same time.

What an absolute shower of rank amateurs they were ... do we really need reminding about it.  Personally speaking if that was all I had as argument to support my vitriol I would be black affronted to advertise it. .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2020, 01:29:55 PM
I think it's sceptics who have been brainwashed...in all cases it's important to look at the evidence..quotes from the Bible are not evidence..lol

Particularly if it is someone else's bible and the marked passage has a very personal significance for that person and absolutely nothing to do with either Madeleine or Kate McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
Of course it wasn't just the dog alerts. The PJ's suspicions were aroused long before the dogs alerted.
According to the Guardian Almeida said the MAIN evidence against the McCanns was the dog alerts..

When the McCanns were made arguido ALL the evidence against them had to be disclosed...that's ALL the evidence. The archiving report sad none of the evidence used to make them arguidos was confirmed...Da Carmo said NO EVIDENCE...
So where is the evidence of their guilt...and what are the PJ doing about it...none and nothing is the answer...
Because there is no evidence against them and they are not suspects.

CB is a suspect of a stranger abduction
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2020, 02:29:45 PM
According to the Guardian Almeida said the MAIN evidence against the McCanns was the dog alerts..

When the McCanns were made arguido ALL the evidence against them had to be disclosed...that's ALL the evidence. The archiving report sad none of the evidence used to make them arguidos was confirmed...Da Carmo said NO EVIDENCE...
So where is the evidence of their guilt...and what are the PJ doing about it...none and nothing is the answer...
Because there is no evidence against them and they are not suspects.

CB is a suspect of a stranger abduction

According to The Guardian? The McCanns were official suspects in the disappearance of their daughter. CB is unofficially suspected of her murder.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 02:30:55 PM
I see the supporter circlejerk continues unabated several days in.
Way to stifle discourse guys!

Nothing of any importance to add to the discussion I see
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 17, 2020, 03:40:37 PM
WOWWWW!  Not many shibboleths there that you have missed out.  Just a reminder of the mumbo jumbo which affected Amaral and his cohorts and led to them getting off on the wrong foot and the wrong track all at one and the same time.

What an absolute shower of rank amateurs they were ... do we really need reminding about it.  Personally speaking if that was all I had as argument to support my vitriol I would be black affronted to advertise it. .

You know there is much more...and they were not cleared of any involvement whatever I choose to put.

What I cant understand is why you are so defensive if you think them innocent SY think them innocent.

Why are you so quick to defend them...why do you think they need you to do that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 03:44:11 PM
According to The Guardian? The McCanns were official suspects in the disappearance of their daughter. CB is unofficially suspected of her murder.

Could you provide a cite that CB is an unofficail suspect...you seem to be making things up as you go along
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2020, 03:49:59 PM
You know there is much more...and they were not cleared of any involvement whatever I choose to put.

What I cant understand is why you are so defensive if you think them innocent SY think them innocent.

Why are you so quick to defend them...why do you think they need you to do that.

Did Amaral ever find Gerry's fridge?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 03:53:21 PM
You know there is much more...and they were not cleared of any involvement whatever I choose to put.

What I cant understand is why you are so defensive if you think them innocent SY think them innocent.

Why are you so quick to defend them...why do you think they need you to do that.

How can they be cleared when they were never accused of anything
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 17, 2020, 04:14:19 PM
Did Amaral ever find Gerry's fridge?

He Never got a chance to carry on with the investigation ...mores the pity..or he might have.

It is a fact he was a thorn in the mccs side .the way they persecuted him seems he was onto something
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2020, 04:30:58 PM
He Never got a chance to carry on with the investigation ...mores the pity..or he might have.

It is a fact he was a thorn in the mccs side .the way they persecuted him seems he was onto something

That'll be a "no" then.

What about the blue bag ... did he ever track that down?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 17, 2020, 05:50:29 PM
That'll be a "no" then.

What about the blue bag ... did he ever track that down?

The German suspect had it,might as well add it to a list of crimes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 17, 2020, 05:51:54 PM
That'll be a "no" then.

What about the blue bag ... did he ever track that down?

Maybe the Germans have.

They were planning a concert a year ahead.......so not expecting to find Maddie anytime soon was they.

FIRST EYE WITNESS STATEMENTS; KATE HEALY'S SURPRISING REACTION

Madeleine's parents are already back in Vila da Luz when we receive photos taken on an area of the motorway: you can make out the figure of a little girl, who looks like Madeleine, accompanied by a couple. These images come from a CCTV camera on the motorway linking Lagos to the Spanish border. The McCanns are asked to come to Portimao in order to proceed to an identification. It's the end of the day. Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her. We are somewhat astonished by her reaction, as if she was not expecting to get her daughter back. The identification turns out negative.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 17, 2020, 05:56:56 PM
Maybe the Germans have.

They were planning a concert a year ahead.......so not expecting to find Maddie anytime soon was they.

FIRST EYE WITNESS STATEMENTS; KATE HEALY'S SURPRISING REACTION

Madeleine's parents are already back in Vila da Luz when we receive photos taken on an area of the motorway: you can make out the figure of a little girl, who looks like Madeleine, accompanied by a couple. These images come from a CCTV camera on the motorway linking Lagos to the Spanish border. The McCanns are asked to come to Portimao in order to proceed to an identification. It's the end of the day. Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her. We are somewhat astonished by her reaction, as if she was not expecting to get her daughter back. The identification turns out negative.

What an odd reaction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 06:01:46 PM
Maybe the Germans have.

They were planning a concert a year ahead.......so not expecting to find Maddie anytime soon was they.

FIRST EYE WITNESS STATEMENTS; KATE HEALY'S SURPRISING REACTION

Madeleine's parents are already back in Vila da Luz when we receive photos taken on an area of the motorway: you can make out the figure of a little girl, who looks like Madeleine, accompanied by a couple. These images come from a CCTV camera on the motorway linking Lagos to the Spanish border. The McCanns are asked to come to Portimao in order to proceed to an identification. It's the end of the day. Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her. We are somewhat astonished by her reaction, as if she was not expecting to get her daughter back. The identification turns out negative.


That is not a true account of what happened...from the convicted liar no doubt
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 06:17:48 PM
He Never got a chance to carry on with the investigation ...mores the pity..or he might have.

It is a fact he was a thorn in the mccs side .the way they persecuted him seems he was onto something

Why hasnt another PJ memeber carried on where he left off...probably because they all realised he was an idiot
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2020, 06:44:53 PM
What an odd reaction.

Perhaps she thought they were being brought back to the Police Station for a different reason.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 17, 2020, 06:53:21 PM

That is not a true account of what happened...from the convicted liar no doubt

That is just your biased opinion on someone you don't like.

Strange as he has done nothing to you .and its not as if you know the mccs

Your just a poster on a forum yet take so much personally it seems.

Still no proof of abduction to actually back up any of your claims....about GA
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 17, 2020, 06:55:10 PM
What exactly whas the reaction that Amaral (who I don’t think was even in the car at the time) found so incredibly odd?  Isn’t it amazing that we are even discussing for the umpteenth time this second hand account of a fleeting moment of little or no significance when it’s quite clear that the main suspect in this case is a paedophile / rapist currently in prison in Germany.  Now that really IS odd!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 17, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Perhaps she thought they were being brought back to the Police Station for a different reason.
Are you saying the police didn’t tell them why they were being raced back to the station at high speed?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 07:00:27 PM
That is just your biased opinion on someone you don't like.

Strange as he has done nothing to you .and its not as if you know the mccs

Your just a poster on a forum yet take so much personally it seems.

Still no proof of abduction to actually back up any of your claims....about GA

Just as your view is biased..I have no respect for any policeman who tries to cover up the torture of a suspect as Amaral did...nothing personal at all..you are totally mistaken

He didn't understand the evidence..he's a very poor cop imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 07:02:01 PM
Perhaps she thought they were being brought back to the Police Station for a different reason.

If you read Kate's account you understand how she felt...it depends on who you think is telling the truth based on the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2020, 07:13:14 PM
The German suspect had it,might as well add it to a list of crimes.

Are you sure about that?

Amaral said the 'German suspect' didn't answer his door when the police knocked so any idea when or how they came by that knowledge.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2020, 07:24:46 PM
According to The Guardian? The McCanns were official suspects in the disappearance of their daughter. CB is unofficially suspected of her murder.

Could you provide a cite for CB being an unofficial suspect or can we conclude you have just made it up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2020, 07:30:06 PM
Maybe the Germans have.

They were planning a concert a year ahead.......so not expecting to find Maddie anytime soon was they.

FIRST EYE WITNESS STATEMENTS; KATE HEALY'S SURPRISING REACTION

Madeleine's parents are already back in Vila da Luz when we receive photos taken on an area of the motorway: you can make out the figure of a little girl, who looks like Madeleine, accompanied by a couple. These images come from a CCTV camera on the motorway linking Lagos to the Spanish border. The McCanns are asked to come to Portimao in order to proceed to an identification. It's the end of the day. Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her. We are somewhat astonished by her reaction, as if she was not expecting to get her daughter back. The identification turns out negative.

Hmmmm ... is there any possible chance you might try to use some myths which haven't been subject to a general debunking as this one has.

Actually cancel that.  Without exception they ALL have been debunked as the nonsensical lies they are and almost all as this one is from Amaral's snake like tongue dripping hatred and poison.
Scrub that ... it was actually dripped from his poison pen.

Allow me to recommend to you ...

Debunking the myths surrounding The Madeleine McCann Case
Snip
The ONLY place you will hear nothing but the truth about the case.

We will be keeping an eye on those pages and people whose purpose is solely to mislead you.

We will be debunking every single lie that we see, shaming those whose priority is to turn you against the parents.

We will gladly show those who continue to spread the myths for what they are. Liars.

https://www.facebook.com/Madeleinemyths/posts/566256267121923?comment_id=566274487120101
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2020, 01:04:40 AM
Hmmmm ... is there any possible chance you might try to use some myths which haven't been subject to a general debunking as this one has.

Actually cancel that.  Without exception they ALL have been debunked as the nonsensical lies they are and almost all as this one is from Amaral's snake like tongue dripping hatred and poison.
Scrub that ... it was actually dripped from his poison pen.

Allow me to recommend to you ...

Debunking the myths surrounding The Madeleine McCann Case
Snip
The ONLY place you will hear nothing but the truth about the case.

We will be keeping an eye on those pages and people whose purpose is solely to mislead you.

We will be debunking every single lie that we see, shaming those whose priority is to turn you against the parents.

We will gladly show those who continue to spread the myths for what they are. Liars.

https://www.facebook.com/Madeleinemyths/posts/566256267121923?comment_id=566274487120101

You do make me laugh Brietta.

At no time does Amaral say he was personally in the car. Everything said and done in that car by the parents would have been reported back to him by his officers. He didn’t need to be there.

The SIO wasn’t there when Karen Matthews began acting in a way that was unusual in a grieving mother....but they were told about it later by the officer who was.

Can you see how it works now ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 18, 2020, 07:08:39 AM
So we must accept the second hand account of a convicted liar and believe it unquestioningly.  And they call us sheeple.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2020, 07:46:55 AM
Amarals book is full of fantasy....he tells us Eddie found a dead body under a flagstone in Jersey which proves he doesn't check his facts and cannot be trusted to record the truth. it's the way of the world that some will simply accept what he says without questioning it but it doesn't matter what a few armchair detectives on the net think. Whats important is what the investigators think. Amaral is no longer of any importance.

it must be very difficult for sceptics to accept that they have been totally mistaken  in their support of amaral and belief in the guilt of the McCanns for the past 13 years...at some stage they are going to have to face reality.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 18, 2020, 07:50:26 AM
You do make me laugh Brietta.

At no time does Amaral say he was personally in the car. Everything said and done in that car by the parents would have been reported back to him by his officers. He didn’t need to be there.

The SIO wasn’t there when Karen Matthews began acting in a way that was unusual in a grieving mother....but they were told about it later by the officer who was.

Can you see how it works now ?

what about jon benets mom??


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 18, 2020, 07:58:07 AM
what about jon benets mom??
Didn’t the police think Lindy Chamberlain’s behaviour was odd?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2020, 07:59:58 AM
Hmmmm ... is there any possible chance you might try to use some myths which haven't been subject to a general debunking as this one has.

Actually cancel that.  Without exception they ALL have been debunked as the nonsensical lies they are and almost all as this one is from Amaral's snake like tongue dripping hatred and poison.
Scrub that ... it was actually dripped from his poison pen.

Allow me to recommend to you ...

Debunking the myths surrounding The Madeleine McCann Case
Snip
The ONLY place you will hear nothing but the truth about the case.

We will be keeping an eye on those pages and people whose purpose is solely to mislead you.

We will be debunking every single lie that we see, shaming those whose priority is to turn you against the parents.

We will gladly show those who continue to spread the myths for what they are. Liars.

https://www.facebook.com/Madeleinemyths/posts/566256267121923?comment_id=566274487120101

Are you denying that "Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her."?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 18, 2020, 08:02:32 AM
Are you denying that "Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her."?
Annoyed?  Says who apart from the man who wasn’t there?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2020, 08:05:48 AM
Are you denying that "Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her."?
Based on what Kate says of the incident I think it's totally untrue to say she was annoyed at being taken back to the police station....just another thing from the book that isn't true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 18, 2020, 08:10:29 AM
Based on what Kate says of the incident I think it's totally untrue to say she was annoyed at being taken back to the police station....just another thing from the book that isn't true
Imagine if Kate had conferred attributes to Tannerman in her book as if she had witnessed him herself.  We’d never be hearing the end of it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2020, 09:10:54 AM
Based on what Kate says of the incident I think it's totally untrue to say she was annoyed at being taken back to the police station....just another thing from the book that isn't true

Kate describes the incident as "life threatening" "terrifying" and "torture". I can imagine her showing annoyance when she realised they merely wanted to show her a CCTV picture of a child which wasn't Madeleine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2020, 09:36:24 AM
Kate describes the incident as "life threatening" "terrifying" and "torture". I can imagine her showing annoyance when she realised they merely wanted to show her a CCTV picture of a child which wasn't Madeleine.

Good to see you admit it's just your imagination..I have a completely different view of the incident and don't perceive any annoyance
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 18, 2020, 09:45:40 AM
Kate describes the incident as "life threatening" "terrifying" and "torture". I can imagine her showing annoyance when she realised they merely wanted to show her a CCTV picture of a child which wasn't Madeleine.
As you're currently in imagination mode perhaps you'd like to describe to us how this imagined annoyance would have manifested itself, and how it would have been impossible to perceive it as anything but annoyance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2020, 10:04:21 AM
As you're currently in imagination mode perhaps you'd like to describe to us how this imagined annoyance would have manifested itself, and how it would have been impossible to perceive it as anything but annoyance.

In my opinion Kate was quite capable of transmitting her feelings to the police officers and they were equally capable of understanding.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2020, 10:12:52 AM
In my opinion Kate was quite capable of transmitting her feelings to the police officers and they were equally capable of understanding.

I wont bother giving kates version of the incident but you need to understand that amarals book contains statements that simply are not true...accuracy is not one of his strong points is it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 10:31:32 AM
It wasnt just dog alerts was it...there was a lot more circumst[ censored word]tarting with the conflicting statements.

Statements that were never backed up with proof it seems ....no reconstruction ect ect.

Its like what do you make of this.

The police who searched the house the McCanns were occupying, in particular their bedroom - the room where Gerald set up his office - report that the father and the mother are reacting very differently to the trouble that has befallen them.

Kate seems to be in mourning: numerous photos of Madeleine are pinned to the wall or placed on her bedside table. Spaced between them - as though watching over the child's soul - a representation of a saint, a crucifix or a rosary can be seen. A bookmark bearing the effigy of a saint is slipped into a copy of the Bible, opening on the second book of Samuel, chapter XII, where the following verses can be read:

"[13] "I have sinned against the Lord," David said.
Nathan replied, "The Lord forgives you; you will not die. [14] But because you have shown such contempt for the Lord in doing this, your child will die." [15] Then Nathan went home.
The Lord caused the child that Uriah's wife had borne to David to become very ill.
[16] David prayed to God that the child would get well. He refused to eat anything and every night he went into his room and spent the night lying on the floor. [17] His court officials went to him and tried to make him get up, but he refused and would not eat anything with them. [18] A week later the child died, and David's officials were afraid to tell him the news. They said, "While the child was living, David wouldn't answer us when we spoke to him. How can we tell him that his child is dead? He might do himself some harm!"
[19] When David noticed them whispering to each other, he realized that the child had died. So he asked them, "Is the child dead?"
"Yes, he is," they answered.
[20] David got up from the floor, had a bath, combed his hair, and changed his clothes. Then he went and worshiped in the house of the Lord. When he returned to the palace, he asked for food and ate it as soon as it was served. [21] "We don't understand this," his officials said to him. "While the child was alive, you wept for him and would not eat; but as soon as he died, you got up and ate!"
[22] "Yes," David answered, "I did fast and weep while he was still alive. I thought that the Lord might be merciful to me and not let the child die. [23] But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Could I bring the child back to life? I will someday go to where he is, but he can never come back to me."
[24] Then David comforted his wife, Bathsheba. He had intercourse with her, and she bore a son, whom David named Solomon. The Lord loved the boy [25] and commanded the Prophet Nathan to name the boy Jedidiah, because the Lord loved him."1

For David life had to go on.

In contrast, in the part of the room occupied by Gerald, the walls are bare, cold, no photos of his daughter. It's here that he administers the Madeleine Fund, organises his very busy agenda and writes his blog. His current reading material - The Interpretation of Murder, by Jed Rubenfeld, Spirit Messenger, by Gordon Smith, It's Not About The Bike: My Journey Back To Life, by Lance Armstrong, - leaves nothing at all to the imagination about the drama the family is living through. With amazement the police officers discover a series of books and manuals exclusively intended for police services and government agencies.

- Missing and Abducted Children: A Law-Enforcement Guide to Case Investigation and Program Management, National Center for Missing & Exploited Children;

- Training Courses, CEOP 9Serious Organised Crime Agency - Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre);

- Making Every Child Matter...Everywhere, CEOP (Serious Organised Crime Agency - Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre).

Mark Harrison himself wonders how Gerald McCann could have obtained these books.

Notes:

1. I have used the Good News Bible for this passage.

Kate was loaned the bible from her aunt I believe, it wasn't Kate who bookmarked the page.   Amaral should have investigated further before writing his nonsense.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 10:33:04 AM
He Never got a chance to carry on with the investigation ...mores the pity..or he might have.

It is a fact he was a thorn in the mccs side .the way they persecuted him seems he was onto something

Oh please,  'persecuted him'  don't make me laugh,  he wrote a book accusing them of hiding their child's body that's persecution.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 10:35:20 AM
Maybe the Germans have.

They were planning a concert a year ahead.......so not expecting to find Maddie anytime soon was they.

FIRST EYE WITNESS STATEMENTS; KATE HEALY'S SURPRISING REACTION

Madeleine's parents are already back in Vila da Luz when we receive photos taken on an area of the motorway: you can make out the figure of a little girl, who looks like Madeleine, accompanied by a couple. These images come from a CCTV camera on the motorway linking Lagos to the Spanish border. The McCanns are asked to come to Portimao in order to proceed to an identification. It's the end of the day. Kate Healy seems annoyed at coming back and made uncomfortable by the speed of the police car taking her. We are somewhat astonished by her reaction, as if she was not expecting to get her daughter back. The identification turns out negative.

Again,  Amaral twists everything that happened.   How would you feel if the car you were in was suddenly turned around and raced back to the Police station.  Kate was praying that it wasn't bad news about Madeleine.  Her reaction would be more disappointed that it wasn't Madeleine in the photo than annoyance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 10:38:14 AM
You know there is much more...and they were not cleared of any involvement whatever I choose to put.

What I cant understand is why you are so defensive if you think them innocent SY think them innocent.

Why are you so quick to defend them...why do you think they need you to do that.

Why are you so quick to defend Amaral?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2020, 10:51:24 AM
Again,  Amaral twists everything that happened.   How would you feel if the car you were in was suddenly turned around and raced back to the Police station.  Kate was praying that it wasn't bad news about Madeleine.  Her reaction would be more disappointed that it wasn't Madeleine in the photo than annoyance.

If I was in a car, on my way to be shown a photograph of what could have been my missing daughter the driver couldn’t have driven fast enough for me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2020, 11:02:08 AM
If I was in a car, on my way to be shown a photograph of what could have been my missing daughter the driver couldn’t have driven fast enough for me.

kate wasnt told why they were returning to the station...she didnt know what was going on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 18, 2020, 11:10:17 AM
kate wasnt told why they were returning to the station...she didnt know what was going on
Did she think she was being abducted like Jane, I wonder?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 18, 2020, 11:22:58 AM
You do make me laugh Brietta.

At no time does Amaral say he was personally in the car. Everything said and done in that car by the parents would have been reported back to him by his officers. He didn’t need to be there.

The SIO wasn’t there when Karen Matthews began acting in a way that was unusual in a grieving mother....but they were told about it later by the officer who was.

Can you see how it works now ?

lol Just What you would expect from a mcc supporters webpage it seems.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 18, 2020, 11:24:05 AM

That is not a true account of what happened...from the convicted liar no doubt

It is a true account of of testimony of people on the case at the time'

The book is true facts of one of the investigating officers at the time....they were there you wasnt.

The book has been dragged through the courts by the mccs ...but GA won the book stands and everything in it does.

Just because you dont like it doesnt mean it didnt happen..that is only IYO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2020, 11:24:20 AM
I wont bother giving kates version of the incident but you need to understand that amarals book contains statements that simply are not true...accuracy is not one of his strong points is it?

I see accuracy as important and there's nothing in Kate's version which excludes her expressing annoyance at the Police Station. She mentions the fact that nothing was explained to them which became a recurring theme. Maybe that annoyed her? I noticed that she expresses no gratitude for the quick action of the PJ in obtaining the image and checking if the child was Madeleine. After all, it could have been!

We weren’t told anything about this, just asked whether the little girl was Madeleine. She wasn’t. And that was that.
[madeleine]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 18, 2020, 11:27:39 AM
I wont bother giving kates version of the incident but you need to understand that amarals book contains statements that simply are not true...accuracy is not one of his strong points is it?

Without revisiting the actual speed of the car yet again ... suffice it to say it was fast ... Kate's account of events explains the actuality of the event in relation to the hopes and fears she and Gerry were enduring for her missing little girl.


Snip
Ten or fifteen minutes into our journey, the police officer had a call from his station.
He said something to Angela, who explained that he’d been ordered to return us to the police station straight away.

He wasn’t allowed to tell us why.

Already driving at quite a scary speed, he suddenly swung the car into a U-turn, floored the accelerator and drove us at a life-threatening 120mph plus back towards Portimão.

I cannot overstate how terrifying this was.
Had Madeleine been found? Please God. Was she alive? Was she dead?
Gerry and I clung on to each other for dear life. I was crying hysterically and praying for all I was worth.

Back at the police station we endured at least another ten minutes of torture in the waiting area before somebody showed us a photograph, clearly taken from CCTV, of a blonde child with a woman in a petrol-station shop.

We weren’t told anything about this, just asked whether the little girl was Madeleine.

She wasn’t.

And that was that. Again we were sent on our way, utterly devastated.  madeleine  Kate McCann


I think it takes someone with a particularly devious mind to take an incidence such as this to twist it into the absolute lie it became to vent his spleen on a grieving mother while adding spice (and spite) to his best seller and to reflect the fantasy world of his fertile imagination.
Amaral did it without a blush.
How could anyone put this creature on a pedestal let alone give him credence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 18, 2020, 11:33:10 AM
Oh please,  'persecuted him'  don't make me laugh,  he wrote a book accusing them of hiding their child's body that's persecution.

How do you know they didnt...they are still not cleared of any involvement of Maddie's disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 18, 2020, 11:37:24 AM
I wont bother giving kates version of the incident but you need to understand that amarals book contains statements that simply are not true...accuracy is not one of his strong points is it?

Lol neither is yours ...mind you yours is only opinion.

Where as GA was actually there and knew exactly what was going on...Fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 11:44:13 AM
If I was in a car, on my way to be shown a photograph of what could have been my missing daughter the driver couldn’t have driven fast enough for me.

They didn't know why they were returning.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 11:45:08 AM
How do you know they didnt...they are still not cleared of any involvement of Maddie's disappearance.


Amaral didn't know either but he stated it as fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 18, 2020, 11:45:47 AM
How do you know they didnt...they are .

Right enough ... there was sufficient evidence to lay charges against Arguido Amaral.  There was sufficient evidence to translate those charges into a criminal conviction against Amaral which was verified on appeal.
So absolutely no ambiguity there.
Not only is Amaral a 'disgraced cop' he can safely be described, like his friend Cristivao, as a 'criminal cop'.

Now, when do you think you should contact Mr Murat's lawyers and suggest to them that he is "still not cleared of any involvement of Maddie's disappearance".
I think they might be quite interested in your opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 11:47:53 AM
It is a true account of of testimony of people on the case at the time'

The book is true facts of one of the investigating officers at the time....they were there you wasnt.

The book has been dragged through the courts by the mccs ...but GA won the book stands and everything in it does.

Just because you dont like it doesnt mean it didnt happen..that is only IYO

The book isn't the true facts  the DNA and Dog alerts did not conclude there was a body in 5a.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 11:53:57 AM
In my opinion Kate was quite capable of transmitting her feelings to the police officers and they were equally capable of understanding.

I don't think they did understand.   As Kate said her and Gerry were out of their mind with worry 'is Madeleine alive is she dead'   why couldn't they tell they why they were going back?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 18, 2020, 12:21:34 PM
The book isn't the true facts  the DNA and Dog alerts did not conclude there was a body in 5a.

There was a lot of conflict with those results L...The biggest regret of PJ is sending the results to Birmingham



HAT THE LABORATORY REPORTS BRING TO LIGHT

The preliminary results from FSS were enlightening in a way, and confirmed the information given by the EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog) and the CSI dog.

- The CSI dog, Keela, signalled the presence of human blood where Eddie, the EVRD dog, marked the presence of cadaver odour - on the floor tiles behind the sofa in the lounge, on the key and in the boot of the Renault Scenic that was used by the McCanns from May 27th onwards.

- the bodily fluids, according to the FSS, contain markers from Madeleine's DNA profile.

These elements do not constitute concrete proof but simply clues to be added to those we already possess. In itself, the definition of a DNA profile from LCN is not considered as evidence in a criminal investigation. In his report, the English scientist says that he cannot give answers to the following questions: when was the DNA deposited? In what way? What bodily fluid does the DNA come from? Has a crime been committed?

The scientific evidence is not enough and it has to be accompanied by other types of material, documented and testimonial evidence. It is only in this way that the entire puzzle can be reconstructed and certainties can be achieved, for the material truth to be established.

The FSS has still not provided the result of the technical analysis of the hair found in the boot of the car. Once more, Stuart has to contact the laboratory. Nothing has been done. We want to know two things: if the hair is indeed Madeleine's, and if it comes from a living or a dead person. The FSS can only answer the first question. English colleagues present at the meeting raise the possibility of the hair being sent to other European laboratories which have the resources to clear up the second point for us: hair from a living or a dead person. But the FSS does not seem to want to part with the hair. They claim that using a colour comparison test they can establish if the hair belongs to Madeleine and in a second stage, identify the DNA profile. None of that will happen. We never find out if the hair was Madeleine's or her parents' or her brother's or her sister's, even though the laboratory has the DNA profiles of each member of the family.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 18, 2020, 12:23:56 PM
Right enough ... there was sufficient evidence to lay charges against Arguido Amaral.  There was sufficient evidence to translate those charges into a criminal conviction against Amaral which was verified on appeal.
So absolutely no ambiguity there.
Not only is Amaral a 'disgraced cop' he can safely be described, like his friend Cristivao, as a 'criminal cop'.

Now, when do you think you should contact Mr Murat's lawyers and suggest to them that he is "still not cleared of any involvement of Maddie's disappearance".
I think they might be quite interested in your opinion.

Why have you altered my post in your post ...is that allowed you would know being a mod.


my post was
How do you know they didnt...they are still not cleared of any involvement of Maddie's disappearance.

you changed it too

How do you know they didnt...they are
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 18, 2020, 12:25:22 PM

Amaral didn't know either but he stated it as fact.

You Dont know it wasn't a fact nothing has been proved to the contrary
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2020, 12:45:31 PM
You Dont know it wasn't a fact nothing has been proved to the contrary

The whole point is Amaral is claiming it as a fact when it hasn't been proved to be fact...can't you see that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2020, 12:51:40 PM
They didn't know why they were returning.

What do you think they thought was happening ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on August 18, 2020, 12:56:22 PM
In my opinion Kate was quite capable of transmitting her feelings to the police officers and they were equally capable of understanding.
I would imagine that by that time her anxiety levels were at its highest with Madeleine gone. Being in a speeding vehicle would have worsened it. My opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2020, 01:00:03 PM
I would imagine that by that time her anxiety levels were at its highest with Madeleine gone. Being in a speeding vehicle would have worsened it. My opinion.

That doesn’t however explain the fact that she is described not as anxious but annoyed.....a completely different emotion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on August 18, 2020, 01:10:31 PM
That doesn’t however explain the fact that she is described not as anxious but annoyed.....a completely different emotion.
I disagree. Anxiety includes a wide range of emotions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2020, 01:17:46 PM
That doesn’t however explain the fact that she is described not as anxious but annoyed.....a completely different emotion.

With different facial expressions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 18, 2020, 01:31:19 PM
In my opinion Kate was quite capable of transmitting her feelings to the police officers and they were equally capable of understanding.
How did you arrive at that opinion?  Do you know Kate McCann and the police officers in question personally and have you had first hand knowledge of their non-verbal communications and skills at reading such?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 18, 2020, 01:34:19 PM
With different facial expressions.
Do you set great store by second hand accounts of how another person seemed?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 18, 2020, 01:39:53 PM
The whole point is Amaral is claiming it as a fact when it hasn't been proved to be fact...can't you see that

It hasnt been proved as non-fact either .cant you see that.

The bottom line is that the McCanns had their day in court and failed to demonstrate that GA's book contained lies.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 18, 2020, 02:13:29 PM
It hasnt been proved as non-fact either .cant you see that.

The bottom line is that the McCanns had their day in court and failed to demonstrate that GA's book contained lies.
@)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2020, 02:14:19 PM
It hasnt been proved as non-fact either .cant you see that.

The bottom line is that the McCanns had their day in court and failed to demonstrate that GA's book contained lies.

And it hasnt been proved that CB didnt abduct Maddie....so according to your logic I  can say he did as no one has proved me wrong

Eddie didnt find a body under a flagstone in jersey...theres lots of things in the book ...whether amaral just didnt understand the truth or check his facts properly we don't know
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 18, 2020, 02:17:26 PM
(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P13/13_VOLUME_XIIIa_Page_3921_small.jpg)
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS9_FINANCIAL.htm

Summary of Verifiable Facts
 
(1) It wasn't the British police who told the PJ that the McCann's didn't have any credit cards. It was Amaral's poor understanding of the information received from the banking authorities, which led to a misinterpretation and incorrect reporting.
(3) Relying on a newspaper for an accurate account is bizarre.
http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077777/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2019

Off topic on another thread the suggestion has been made that the British police withheld information from the Portuguese when it was nothing more than Amaral getting entirely the wrong end of the stick yet again.
A talent from which he has been able to forge a very lucrative career.
'Nowt as daft as folk' is there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 18, 2020, 02:21:17 PM
And it hasnt been proved that CB didnt abduct Maddie....so according to your logic I  can say he did as no one has proved me wrong

Eddie didnt find a body under a flagstone in jersey...theres lots of things in the book ...whether amaral just didnt understand the truth or check his facts properly we don't know

Its there for everyone to read...as factual....the mccs failed to get it banned.

The bottom line is that the McCanns had their day in court and failed to demonstrate that GA's book contained lies.

So what he has wrote is the truth from what happened.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2020, 02:26:28 PM
I disagree. Anxiety includes a wide range of emotions.

Is annoyance one ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2020, 02:26:50 PM
Its there for everyone to read...as factual....the mccs failed to get it banned.

The bottom line is that the McCanns had their day in court and failed to demonstrate that GA's book contained lies.

So what he has wrote is the truth from what happened.

no it isnt...eddie didnt find a body under  a flagsone in Jesey...it isnt true   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2020, 02:39:30 PM
(https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P13/13_VOLUME_XIIIa_Page_3921_small.jpg)
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS9_FINANCIAL.htm

Summary of Verifiable Facts
 
(1) It wasn't the British police who told the PJ that the McCann's didn't have any credit cards. It was Amaral's poor understanding of the information received from the banking authorities, which led to a misinterpretation and incorrect reporting.
(3) Relying on a newspaper for an accurate account is bizarre.
http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077777/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2019

Off topic on another thread the suggestion has been made that the British police withheld information from the Portuguese when it was nothing more than Amaral getting entirely the wrong end of the stick yet again.
A talent from which he has been able to forge a very lucrative career.
'Nowt as daft as folk' is there.

Amaral requested information from the UK-Portugal liaison officer Glen Pounder without response;

At the same time, we hope to obtain a response to our request to the British authorities, made through the liaison officer in Portugal on the first day of the investigation, for information on the McCann family and their friends. Given the fact that we have, so far, received no response to this enquiry, we will make the request for the desired information through the rogatory letter. We ask Stuart about this matter and he says that, “they are in the process of gathering that information.”

However, a preliminary response comes to us about the McCanns’ financial situation: astonishingly, there are no records of the McCanns holding any credit or debit cards.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2020, 02:47:38 PM
Amaral requested information from the UK-Portugal liaison officer Glen Pounder without response;

At the same time, we hope to obtain a response to our request to the British authorities, made through the liaison officer in Portugal on the first day of the investigation, for information on the McCann family and their friends. Given the fact that we have, so far, received no response to this enquiry, we will make the request for the desired information through the rogatory letter. We ask Stuart about this matter and he says that, “they are in the process of gathering that information.”

However, a preliminary response comes to us about the McCanns’ financial situation: astonishingly, there are no records of the McCanns holding any credit or debit cards.

He got that wrong as well... perhaps it was the language barrier
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 18, 2020, 04:34:58 PM
no it isnt...eddie didnt find a body under  a flagsone in Jesey...it isnt true

Where did I say that.


On the very day that interrogation of the McCann couple starts, a second preliminary report reaches us. Contrary to the first report, it accords more importance to the DNA profile of the blood lifted from the floor of the apartment. In that sample, the DNA came from more than one donor, but the confirmed DNA components match the corresponding components of Madeleine's DNA profile.

As for the samples lifted from the boot of the car, there is no further mention of the 15 markers, as if they had never existed.

Suddenly, light was starting to be cast on the issue: either this LCN technique is not reliable or it's simply much easier to explain the presence of Madeleine's DNA in the apartment than in the boot of a car hired 24 days after her disappearance.

At our insistence, Stuart contacts the FSS and asks them if they think the Portuguese are idiots. We hear him saying: "With a lot less than that, we would have already arrested someone in England." I look at my colleagues and see that they are as stupefied as I am. In fact, in Portugal, it's not so easy to arrest someone. We explain to Stuart that the McCanns interrogations would not result in detention. According to Portuguese law, the crimes of concealment of a corpse and simulating an abduction are not liable to remanding in custody.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 18, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Where did I say that.


On the very day that interrogation of the McCann couple starts, a second preliminary report reaches us. Contrary to the first report, it accords more importance to the DNA profile of the blood lifted from the floor of the apartment. In that sample, the DNA came from more than one donor, but the confirmed DNA components match the corresponding components of Madeleine's DNA profile.

As for the samples lifted from the boot of the car, there is no further mention of the 15 markers, as if they had never existed.

Suddenly, light was starting to be cast on the issue: either this LCN technique is not reliable or it's simply much easier to explain the presence of Madeleine's DNA in the apartment than in the boot of a car hired 24 days after her disappearance.

At our insistence, Stuart contacts the FSS and asks them if they think the Portuguese are idiots. We hear him saying: "With a lot less than that, we would have already arrested someone in England." I look at my colleagues and see that they are as stupefied as I am. In fact, in Portugal, it's not so easy to arrest someone. We explain to Stuart that the McCanns interrogations would not result in detention. According to Portuguese law, the crimes of concealment of a corpse and simulating an abduction are not liable to remanding in custody.

I hardly believe a word Amaral says..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 05:38:43 PM
There was a lot of conflict with those results L...The biggest regret of PJ is sending the results to Birmingham



HAT THE LABORATORY REPORTS BRING TO LIGHT

The preliminary results from FSS were enlightening in a way, and confirmed the information given by the EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog) and the CSI dog.

- The CSI dog, Keela, signalled the presence of human blood where Eddie, the EVRD dog, marked the presence of cadaver odour - on the floor tiles behind the sofa in the lounge, on the key and in the boot of the Renault Scenic that was used by the McCanns from May 27th onwards.

- the bodily fluids, according to the FSS, contain markers from Madeleine's DNA profile.

These elements do not constitute concrete proof but simply clues to be added to those we already possess. In itself, the definition of a DNA profile from LCN is not considered as evidence in a criminal investigation. In his report, the English scientist says that he cannot give answers to the following questions: when was the DNA deposited? In what way? What bodily fluid does the DNA come from? Has a crime been committed?

The scientific evidence is not enough and it has to be accompanied by other types of material, documented and testimonial evidence. It is only in this way that the entire puzzle can be reconstructed and certainties can be achieved, for the material truth to be established.

The FSS has still not provided the result of the technical analysis of the hair found in the boot of the car. Once more, Stuart has to contact the laboratory. Nothing has been done. We want to know two things: if the hair is indeed Madeleine's, and if it comes from a living or a dead person. The FSS can only answer the first question. English colleagues present at the meeting raise the possibility of the hair being sent to other European laboratories which have the resources to clear up the second point for us: hair from a living or a dead person. But the FSS does not seem to want to part with the hair. They claim that using a colour comparison test they can establish if the hair belongs to Madeleine and in a second stage, identify the DNA profile. None of that will happen. We never find out if the hair was Madeleine's or her parents' or her brother's or her sister's, even though the laboratory has the DNA profiles of each member of the family.


What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears to match the result by chance. The individual components in Madeline's profile are not unique to her, it is the specific combination of 19 components that makes her profile unique above all others. Elements of Madeline's profile are also present within the the profiles of many of the scientists here in Birmingham, myself included. it's important to stress that 50% of Madeline's profile will be shared with each parent. It is not possible in a mixture of more than two people, to determine or evaluate which specific DNA components pair with each other. Namely, we cannot separate the components out into 3 individual DNA profiles.


Amaral didn't understand the explanation did he.   He blames everyone,  even the qualified scientist.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 05:40:29 PM
Where did I say that.


On the very day that interrogation of the McCann couple starts, a second preliminary report reaches us. Contrary to the first report, it accords more importance to the DNA profile of the blood lifted from the floor of the apartment. In that sample, the DNA came from more than one donor, but the confirmed DNA components match the corresponding components of Madeleine's DNA profile.

As for the samples lifted from the boot of the car, there is no further mention of the 15 markers, as if they had never existed.

Suddenly, light was starting to be cast on the issue: either this LCN technique is not reliable or it's simply much easier to explain the presence of Madeleine's DNA in the apartment than in the boot of a car hired 24 days after her disappearance.

At our insistence, Stuart contacts the FSS and asks them if they think the Portuguese are idiots. We hear him saying: "With a lot less than that, we would have already arrested someone in England." I look at my colleagues and see that they are as stupefied as I am. In fact, in Portugal, it's not so easy to arrest someone. We explain to Stuart that the McCanns interrogations would not result in detention. According to Portuguese law, the crimes of concealment of a corpse and simulating an abduction are not liable to remanding in custody.


He shouldn't have jumped to conclusions should he.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 05:42:08 PM
Its there for everyone to read...as factual....the mccs failed to get it banned.

The bottom line is that the McCanns had their day in court and failed to demonstrate that GA's book contained lies.

So what he has wrote is the truth from what happened.


So Gerry is a surgeon who cuts up bodies before breakfast his he?   The McCann's give the children Calpol to make them sleep did they another lie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 05:43:26 PM
You Dont know it wasn't a fact nothing has been proved to the contrary

Nothing had been proved!!  but he still stated it as fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 05:44:54 PM
How do you know they didnt...they are still not cleared of any involvement of Maddie's disappearance.

Accusing them with no definite proof.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2020, 05:47:26 PM
That doesn’t however explain the fact that she is described not as anxious but annoyed.....a completely different emotion.

By Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 09:28:34 AM
Nothing had been proved!!  but he still stated it as fact.

The book was a subject of libel..it will have been scrutinized by lawyers.

GA won the case so obviously it seems nothing in the book was libelous.

Or damaged the mccs reputation.....all that he wrote was facts from the investigation.

The truth ...it seems the lie was the abduction in my opinion that's why its called Truth of the lie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 09:34:17 AM
Accusing them with no definite proof.

He never got chance to get to  the truth did he ..they wanted rid first opportunity.

He criticized UK police ...and that was him gone.

Then the mccs went after him to silence him ...but they failed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 09:37:39 AM
He never got chance to get to  the truth did he ..they wanted rid first opportunity.

He criticized UK police ...and that was him gone.

Then the mccs went after him to silence him ...but they failed.

I think he had been silenced..when was the last time he said Maddie died in the apartment and her parents covered it up..cite
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
I think he had been silenced..when was the last time he said Maddie died in the apartment and her parents covered it up..cite

He doesn't have to does he ...its all in the book free for anyone to read.

Its still there ..the mccs couldn't get it banned.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 19, 2020, 09:49:24 AM
The book was a subject of libel..it will have been scrutinized by lawyers.

GA won the case so obviously it seems nothing in the book was libelous.

Or damaged the mccs reputation.....all that he wrote was facts from the investigation.

The truth ...it seems the lie was the abduction in my opinion that's why its called Truth of the lie.

Why do you think he hasn't found a British publisher to put that or his much talked about sequel into the bookshops here?

Is it a commercial decision do you think ... now that the reading public can witness for themselves exactly how a police investigation should be conducted and a credible suspect located.
They just won't be interested in an amateur dose of nonsensical conspiracy theory any more ... particularly since real investigators have brought to the fore a suspect who epitomises everything Amaral has sneered at and derogated for thirteen years.

I think at the moment he and his theories are becoming more risible by the day and in future will only be looked at in relation to the harm done to the investigation into what happened to Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 19, 2020, 09:53:49 AM
He never got chance to get to  the truth did he ..they wanted rid first opportunity.

He criticized UK police ...and that was him gone.

Then the mccs went after him to silence him ...but they failed.

The only failure was Amaral's as anyone with access to news media can see first hand for themselves.

I think you embarrass your avatar by acting as his cheer leader.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 19, 2020, 09:55:51 AM
He doesn't have to does he ...its all in the book free for anyone to read.

Its still there ..the mccs couldn't get it banned.

I wonder if the European Court will see it quite like that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 19, 2020, 10:06:48 AM
The only failure was Amaral's as anyone with access to news media can see first hand for themselves.

I think you embarrass your avatar by acting as his cheer leader.
You mean that woman isn't Kizzy??  Who is it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 19, 2020, 10:07:20 AM
The book was a subject of libel..it will have been scrutinized by lawyers.

GA won the case so obviously it seems nothing in the book was libelous.

Or damaged the mccs reputation.....all that he wrote was facts from the investigation.

The truth ...it seems the lie was the abduction in my opinion that's why its called Truth of the lie.

Again,  the DNA and dog alerts were not facts from the investigation.

Tell me if you had a Police officer accusing you of hiding your daughters body and writing a book about it what would you do?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 19, 2020, 10:08:36 AM
He doesn't have to does he ...its all in the book free for anyone to read.

Its still there ..the mccs couldn't get it banned.

He won't sell it in Britain,  all it will be is a freeby.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 19, 2020, 10:11:24 AM
He never got chance to get to  the truth did he ..they wanted rid first opportunity.

He criticized UK police ...and that was him gone.

Then the mccs went after him to silence him ...but they failed.


So much for Amaral saying the British Police agreed with his theory then isn't it?

How did the McCann's go after him?   They came back to Britain and hired Private Detectives.   It wasn't until amaral wrote his fairy tale that Kate and Gerry had to take action against him,  as anyone would do in their position.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 10:14:12 AM
He doesn't have to does he ...its all in the book free for anyone to read.

Its still there ..the mccs couldn't get it banned.

The decision as to if it is libellous or not hasn't been taken yet...it will be decided by the ECHR...imo it clearly is. The SC has a very poor record at the ECHR...it gets a lot wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 19, 2020, 11:03:46 AM

So much for Amaral saying the British Police agreed with his theory then isn't it?

How did the McCann's go after him?   They came back to Britain and hired Private Detectives.   It wasn't until amaral wrote his fairy tale that Kate and Gerry had to take action against him,  as anyone would do in their position.

How was the collaboration with the English police?
 
With the investigators on the ground, it went very well. However, it was much more complicated with the headquarters in Great Britain.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id286.htm#injdec
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 11:45:53 AM
The decision as to if it is libellous or not hasn't been taken yet...it will be decided by the ECHR...imo it clearly is. The SC has a very poor record at the ECHR...it gets a lot wrong

That is in your opinion ..at the moment the book stands to be legal.

Although if printed in the UK...The mccs warned them they would be sued.

As you know in the UK the UK media etc are gagged

The same as any tv show they Appeared on had pre-set questions to ask them.

Seemed the fund money came in really handy they had lawyers I believe to cover everything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 11:47:43 AM
Accusing them with no definite proof.

Well you would think if your child had been abducted you wouldn't do this.


The search and examination of the scene were carried out in difficult conditions: when they arrived, the police were met with a large number of people coming and going - family, friends, resort employees, including dogs and members of the National Guard. The contamination of the premises risks bringing serious prejudice, as a consequence, to the investigation. We must ask ourselves if that contamination has been deliberate or not - it can make the search for clues particularly complicated. The Lisbon scenes of crime technicians come as reinforcements to start the examination of the residence, which is from now on empty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 19, 2020, 11:57:10 AM
How was the collaboration with the English police?
 
With the investigators on the ground, it went very well. However, it was much more complicated with the headquarters in Great Britain.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id286.htm#injdec

I doubt very much if the investigators on the ground would have been able to tell Amaral how to investigate the case,  but I would imagine they were reporting back to headquarters.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 19, 2020, 11:58:41 AM
Well you would think if your child had been abducted you wouldn't do this.


The search and examination of the scene were carried out in difficult conditions: when they arrived, the police were met with a large number of people coming and going - family, friends, resort employees, including dogs and members of the National Guard. The contamination of the premises risks bringing serious prejudice, as a consequence, to the investigation. We must ask ourselves if that contamination has been deliberate or not - it can make the search for clues particularly complicated. The Lisbon scenes of crime technicians come as reinforcements to start the examination of the residence, which is from now on empty.

There he goes again blaming the McCann's,  what about his own officers with fag ash and dog hair?   What about the woman looking for fingerprints with no gloves?   As for him saying it could have been deliberate,   that is just a nasty comment to cover up his useless investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 19, 2020, 12:02:13 PM
That is in your opinion ..at the moment the book stands to be legal.

Although if printed in the UK...The mccs warned them they would be sued.

As you know in the UK the UK media etc are gagged

The same as any tv show they Appeared on had pre-set questions to ask them.

Seemed the fund money came in really handy they had lawyers I believe to cover everything.

His book is libellous in the UK.   The fund money was there to help the search for Madeleine and in suing Amaral for his lies in his book and saying Madeleine was dead was helping the search for Madeleine as people would then know that what he said was not factual,  so yes the lawyers knew their job.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 19, 2020, 12:52:09 PM
That is in your opinion ..at the moment the book stands to be legal.

Although if printed in the UK...The mccs warned them they would be sued.

As you know in the UK the UK media etc are gagged

The same as any tv show they Appeared on had pre-set questions to ask them.

Seemed the fund money came in really handy they had lawyers I believe to cover everything.

You are mistaken when you accuse the McCanns of appropriating money from Madeleine's fund.



Madeleine fund ‘not for legal fees’  Wednesday 12 Sep 2007

The parents of missing Madeleine McCann will not seek to use money raised for the fund to find her to pay for their legal defence, a spokesman said.

Kate and Gerry McCann have appointed top lawyers in Portugal and Britain after being named as formal suspects in their daughter’s disappearance.
Speaking from the McCanns’ home village of Rothley in Leicestershire, family spokesman David Hughes said: “They have decided not to seek to use those funds for their legal support.”

Donations totalling £1,036,104.17 have so far been received for Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned, according to the official campaign website. The fund – which for legal reasons is not a charity – has four objectives, one of which is “to provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine’s family”.

There was controversy about whether or not Mr and Mrs McCann would use money from the fund to pay their legal costs after it became clear police suspected them of involvement in her disappearance.

The board of the fund later met to discuss the issue.
Director Esther McVey, who chaired the meeting, said the board would be legally entitled to pay the fees but had decided not to.
She said: “The board has been advised that the payment of Gerry and Kate’s legal defence costs would be legally permissible, subject to conditions about repayment in the event of guilty convictions.
“The fund’s directors realise there is not only a legal answer but recognise too the spirit which underlies the generous donations to Madeleine’s fund which it is the directors’ responsibility to steer.

“For this reason the fund’s directors have decided not to pay for Gerry and Kate’s legal defence costs.

We stress that Gerry and Kate have not asked for those costs to be paid.”

https://metro.co.uk/2007/09/12/madeleine-fund-not-for-legal-fees-107833/


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 12:53:12 PM
There he goes again blaming the McCann's,  what about his own officers with fag ash and dog hair?   What about the woman looking for fingerprints with no gloves?   As for him saying it could have been deliberate,   that is just a nasty comment to cover up his useless investigation.

IYO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 01:07:20 PM
That is in your opinion ..at the moment the book stands to be legal.

Although if printed in the UK...The mccs warned them they would be sued.

As you know in the UK the UK media etc are gagged

The same as any tv show they Appeared on had pre-set questions to ask them.

Seemed the fund money came in really handy they had lawyers I believe to cover everything.

You seem to believe everything the convicted liar says. You and others may have  a massive shock coming to you....i wonder how you will expalin it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 01:15:38 PM
You are mistaken when you accuse the McCanns of appropriating money from Madeleine's fund.



Madeleine fund ‘not for legal fees’  Wednesday 12 Sep 2007

The parents of missing Madeleine McCann will not seek to use money raised for the fund to find her to pay for their legal defence, a spokesman said.

Kate and Gerry McCann have appointed top lawyers in Portugal and Britain after being named as formal suspects in their daughter’s disappearance.
Speaking from the McCanns’ home village of Rothley in Leicestershire, family spokesman David Hughes said: “They have decided not to seek to use those funds for their legal support.”

Donations totalling £1,036,104.17 have so far been received for Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned, according to the official campaign website. The fund – which for legal reasons is not a charity – has four objectives, one of which is “to provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine’s family”.

There was controversy about whether or not Mr and Mrs McCann would use money from the fund to pay their legal costs after it became clear police suspected them of involvement in her disappearance.

The board of the fund later met to discuss the issue.
Director Esther McVey, who chaired the meeting, said the board would be legally entitled to pay the fees but had decided not to.
She said: “The board has been advised that the payment of Gerry and Kate’s legal defence costs would be legally permissible, subject to conditions about repayment in the event of guilty convictions.
“The fund’s directors realise there is not only a legal answer but recognise too the spirit which underlies the generous donations to Madeleine’s fund which it is the directors’ responsibility to steer.

“For this reason the fund’s directors have decided not to pay for Gerry and Kate’s legal defence costs.

We stress that Gerry and Kate have not asked for those costs to be paid.”

https://metro.co.uk/2007/09/12/madeleine-fund-not-for-legal-fees-107833/

That was in 2007..what they should do and what they did do is two different things

TThe fund money was at the mccs disposal to spend on what they whish .starting with paying there morgage.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 19, 2020, 01:59:22 PM
That was in 2007..what they should do and what they did do is two different things

TThe fund money was at the mccs disposal to spend on what they whish .starting with paying there morgage.

Yes ... indeed it was in 2007 just after the McCanns were made arguidos and needed to hire legal advice.

Kate wrote a best selling book the proceeds of which were paid directly into Madeleine's Fund which was set up to look for her daughter. 

What did Amaral do with the proceeds of his best seller ... nothing constructive I think, unless it was to reimburse his creditors ~ among whom were the Portuguese Tax Authorities.


Two mortgage payments were made (and repaid) while Kate and Gerry were in Portugal for five months and on unpaid leave from their work.  Perhaps it would have suited you better for the family to end up homeless as well as bereft by the loss of their little girl.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 02:14:03 PM
You seem to believe everything the convicted liar says. You and others may have  a massive shock coming to you....i wonder how you will expalin it.

You seem to know more than anyone else.

I cant believe you don't think that goes on in the Met...the only difference it seems is here they don't get held responsible for there actions.

Look at Hillsborough for just one of many.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 19, 2020, 02:16:22 PM
Yes ... indeed it was in 2007 just after the McCanns were made arguidos and needed to hire legal advice.

Kate wrote a best selling book the proceeds of which were paid directly into Madeleine's Fund which was set up to look for her daughter. 

What did Amaral do with the proceeds of his best seller ... nothing constructive I think, unless it was to reimburse his creditors ~ among whom were the Portuguese Tax Authorities.


Two mortgage payments were made (and repaid) while Kate and Gerry were in Portugal for five months and on unpaid leave from their work.  Perhaps it would have suited you better for the family to end up homeless as well as bereft by the loss of their little girl.

"To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family."

http://findmadeleine.com/about_the_campaign/index.html


Nicely vague there.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 19, 2020, 02:16:47 PM
You seem to know more than anyone else.

I cant believe you don't think that goes on in the Met...the only difference it seems is here they don't get held responsible for there actions.

Look at Hillsborough for just one of many.

Look at Amaral's best chum Cristovao ... another one of many.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 02:17:13 PM
Yes ... indeed it was in 2007 just after the McCanns were made arguidos and needed to hire legal advice.

Kate wrote a best selling book the proceeds of which were paid directly into Madeleine's Fund which was set up to look for her daughter. 

What did Amaral do with the proceeds of his best seller ... nothing constructive I think, unless it was to reimburse his creditors ~ among whom were the Portuguese Tax Authorities.


Two mortgage payments were made (and repaid) while Kate and Gerry were in Portugal for five months and on unpaid leave from their work.  Perhaps it would have suited you better for the family to end up homeless as well as bereft by the loss of their little girl.

How would they end up homeless ......when they had the fund at there disposal.

Anything else is what they brought on themselves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 02:19:19 PM
Look at Amaral's best chum Cristovao ... another one of many.

What about all the inconsistencies in the mccs and tapas 7 statements.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 19, 2020, 02:29:47 PM
How would they end up homeless ......when they had the fund at there disposal.

Anything else is what they brought on themselves.

The fund was not at their disposal ... it was bound by firm regulations and every postage stamp and paperclip bought was scrutinised annually by Enid O’Dowd ... so no room for manoeuvre there.


It is noticeable that the first reference to what became the 'fraudulent' fund came from Amaral a man whose own brother had to sue for money owed to him by Amaral who had defrauded him.

Amaral's brother won his case by the way.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 02:35:56 PM
The fund was not at their disposal ... it was bound by firm regulations and every postage stamp and paperclip bought was scrutinised annually by Enid O’Dowd ... so no room for manoeuvre there.


It is noticeable that the first reference to what became the 'fraudulent' fund came from Amaral a man whose own brother had to sue for money owed to him by Amaral who had defrauded him.

Amaral's brother won his case by the way.

Well seems your another one who think our police forces are as white as driven snow lol
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 19, 2020, 02:38:36 PM
"To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family."

http://findmadeleine.com/about_the_campaign/index.html


Nicely vague there.

That objective of the Fund ended in December 2011.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 19, 2020, 02:46:26 PM
What about all the inconsistencies in the mccs and tapas 7 statements.

What about them?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 02:52:30 PM
What about all the inconsistencies in the mccs and tapas 7 statements.

What about them....what caused them..I think the fact that they were not written down in English is a major problem ..this fact was raised by the PJ after Amaral was sacked from the investigation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 02:54:39 PM
You seem to know more than anyone else.

I cant believe you don't think that goes on in the Met...the only difference it seems is here they don't get held responsible for there actions.

Look at Hillsborough for just one of many.

You get so much wrong ..there are lying policemen in every country...I don't try and make excuses for them as you do
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 03:20:56 PM
What about them?

Well seems they changed there mind to fit in ..so wonder which they would go with when

Statements are signed so that is evidence....its like the Payne statement why was he so keen to say how happy Maddie was.......and how long was he there

1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''
 Reply "I can't, no.'
1485 "And did you actually set eyes on each individual child''
Reply "All three children I saw, yeah.'
1485 "And were they standing up' Sitting down''
 Reply "Err they were generally standing up, yeah.'
1485 "Did they actually acknowledge you''
 Reply "Err oh yeah, you know I'm very sure that if you'd have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they'd all say ah yeah, I popped in. You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we'd all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I'd be playing with Madeleine you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she'd definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 04:00:37 PM
Well seems they changed there mind to fit in ..so wonder which they would go with when

Statements are signed so that is evidence....its like the Payne statement why was he so keen to say how happy Maddie was.......and how long was he there

1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''
 Reply "I can't, no.'
1485 "And did you actually set eyes on each individual child''
Reply "All three children I saw, yeah.'
1485 "And were they standing up' Sitting down''
 Reply "Err they were generally standing up, yeah.'
1485 "Did they actually acknowledge you''
 Reply "Err oh yeah, you know I'm very sure that if you'd have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they'd all say ah yeah, I popped in. You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we'd all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I'd be playing with Madeleine you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she'd definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.

None of the statements given by the McCcanns apart from one by Gerry can be used as evidence against them as they were not arguidos...similar to being cautioned  in the Uk...another cock up by teh PJ

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 04:13:29 PM
None of the statements given by the McCcanns apart from one by Gerry can be used as evidence against them as they were not arguidos...similar to being cautioned  in the Uk...another cock up by teh PJ

.another cock up by teh PJ

Lucky for the mccs then eh...it seems.

Was it cockups though...or UK interference
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 04:19:23 PM
.another cock up by teh PJ

Lucky for the mccs then eh...it seems.

Was it cockups though...or UK interference

PJ cock ups...then we have this...Rebelo admitting the satements were poorly taken..

Inconsistencies in the statements given by the McCanns and the group of friends who were dining with them at the time of Madeleine's disappearance may have been caused by errors in translation, it emerged today.

Portuguese detectives investigating the case of the missing four-year-old have admitted that they are reassessing the original witness statements to look for inaccuracies in their translation.

"In the early days of the investigation there were dozens of statements being given at what was a very confusing time," a police source said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569143/Madeleine-McCann-Possible-translation-errors.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 19, 2020, 04:21:09 PM
PJ cock ups...then we have this...Rebelo admitting the satements were poorly taken..

Inconsistencies in the statements given by the McCanns and the group of friends who were dining with them at the time of Madeleine's disappearance may have been caused by errors in translation, it emerged today.

Portuguese detectives investigating the case of the missing four-year-old have admitted that they are reassessing the original witness statements to look for inaccuracies in their translation.

"In the early days of the investigation there were dozens of statements being given at what was a very confusing time," a police source said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1569143/Madeleine-McCann-Possible-translation-errors.html

Lol a police source ........in a newspaper.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 04:34:37 PM
Lol a police source ........in a newspaper.

Thats quite funny coming from someone who believes everything in aamrals book even though its been proven there are several things that are totally untrue...have you actually read it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 19, 2020, 04:50:20 PM
Thats quite funny coming from someone who believes everything in aamrals book even though its been proven there are several things that are totally untrue...have you actually read it
I've read the bible, millions are deceived by that lie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 19, 2020, 05:00:08 PM
Thats quite funny coming from someone who believes everything in aamrals book even though its been proven there are several things that are totally untrue...have you actually read it

No wonder the newspaper can't name a source. I'm quite sure the PJ wouldn't publicly criticise the interpreters. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 19, 2020, 05:12:33 PM
I've read the bible, millions are deceived by that lie.
Does that make Amaral s bit like God then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 19, 2020, 05:30:28 PM
Thats quite funny coming from someone who believes everything in aamrals book even though its been proven there are several things that are totally untrue...have you actually read it

I haven't read it properly, I just skimmed through it really, it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

But I'm tempted to buy several hundred copies of it just to put cash in Amaral's pockets.

I might yet buy a copy of Kate's book too, second hand mind so she doesn't profit, then use it as toilet paper.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 19, 2020, 05:38:30 PM
I haven't read it properly, I just skimmed through it really, it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

But I'm tempted to buy several hundred copies of it just to put cash in Amaral's pockets.

I might yet buy a copy of Kate's book too, second hand mind so she doesn't profit, then use it as toilet paper.
Haven’t you started that fund for Bruckner yet?  I’m beginning to think you’re all mouth and no trousers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 19, 2020, 07:10:48 PM
None of the statements given by the McCcanns apart from one by Gerry can be used as evidence against them as they were not arguidos...similar to being cautioned  in the Uk...another cock up by teh PJ


Hey Mr Rainbow signed witness statements cannot be used as evidence. Your report to the PJ was a waste of time  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 07:13:16 PM
Hey Mr Rainbow signed witness statements cannot be used as evidence. Your report to the PJ was a waste of time  @)(++(*

Best to read my post again so you understand...you are not doing your credibility any favours

first lesson...whats the diference between a witness statement and an arguido statement
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 07:17:29 PM
Hey Mr Rainbow signed witness statements cannot be used as evidence. Your report to the PJ was a waste of time  @)(++(*

second lesson...can you give us a copy of Rainbows report
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 19, 2020, 07:18:29 PM
Best to read my post again so you understand...you are not doing your credibility any favours

first lesson...whats the diference between a witness statement and an arguido statement

Big difference. No comments on one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 07:19:40 PM
Big difference. No comments on one.

do you understand interview under caution and its implications
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 19, 2020, 07:31:19 PM
second lesson...can you give us a copy of Rainbows report

I don't need to read his report to conclude that the last witness not knowing which door he used to enter and other facts like changing his story about his friend are discrepancies that should be investigated. The more you dig the more you find.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 07:35:29 PM
I don't need to read his report to conclude that the last witness not knowing which door he used to enter and other facts like changing his story about his friend are discrepancies that should be investigated. The more you dig the more you find.

Yes what you find is the PJ were rubbish at taking statements...and...none of those statements are admissible evidence against the McCanns because they were not made under caution

second...you have never seen his report by rainbow so dont have aclue what it contains...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 19, 2020, 07:39:27 PM
do you understand interview under caution and its implications

Christopher Jefferies answered every question because he knew he was innocent!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2020, 07:41:01 PM
Christopher Jefferies answered every question because he knew he was innocent!

colin stagg didnt because he knew the police were trying to stich him up..

CB has already said he wont answer any
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2020, 11:23:14 PM
colin stagg didnt because he knew the police were trying to stich him up..

CB has already said he wont answer any

Interesting you mention Colin Stagg...the prime suspect in a horrific murder for months yet was entirely innocent of the crime. Much, I suspect, like Brueckner.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 19, 2020, 11:28:11 PM
Kate McCann refuses to answer police questions = suspicious
Colin Stagg refuses to answer police questions = entirely innocent

Go figure!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 19, 2020, 11:30:24 PM
Interesting you mention Colin Stagg...the prime suspect in a horrific murder for months yet was entirely innocent of the crime. Much, I suspect, like Brueckner.
isnt it intresting that supporters believe the mcanns  every word  but they  call the   PJ amaral and Brueckner liars??   or accuse them of things they may  not of done  a  bit hypocritical much??.....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 12:00:12 AM
isnt it intresting that supporters believe the mcanns  every word  but they  call the   PJ amaral and Brueckner liars??   or accuse them of things they may  not of done  a  bit hypocritical much??.....
Yes, how dare we not believe a convicted liar and a paedo/rapist , we should of course believe every word they say based on their combined track records of honesty and decency.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2020, 07:54:38 AM
Yes, how dare we not believe a convicted liar and a paedo/rapist , we should of course believe every word they say based on their combined track records of honesty and decency.

Give a dog a bad name and hang him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 07:56:42 AM
Give a dog a bad name and hang him.

Its called evidence..

You are supporting the paedophile/rapists reputaion it seems...why ?

They have both earnt their names by their own actions
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 08:08:45 AM
Give a dog a bad name and hang him.
No one gave Amaral or Bruckner a bad name, they earned it all by themselves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 08:09:03 AM
Its called evidence..

You are supporting the paedophile/rapists reputaion it seems...why ?

They have both earnt their names by their own actions
Snap!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 08:20:27 AM
Give a dog a bad name and hang him.

Whats unfair about referring to amaral as a convicted liar...he is

Breukner....a paedophile/rapist...he is
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 09:18:00 AM
Whats unfair about referring to amaral as a convicted liar...he is

Breukner....a paedophile/rapist...he is
According to some it's unfair to call them dishonest.  Hard to believe but there you go.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 20, 2020, 09:23:37 AM
Whats unfair about referring to amaral as a convicted liar...he is

Breukner....a paedophile/rapist...he is
Leonor - kills her own child, the most heinous act a human can perpetrate.......convicted........innocent.
I see how it works now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 09:25:49 AM
Leonor - kills her own child, the most heinous act a human can perpetrate.......convicted........innocent.
I see how it works now.
Oh I love the smell of deflection in the morning.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2020, 09:37:08 AM
Leonor - kills her own child, the most heinous act a human can perpetrate.......convicted........innocent.
I see how it works now.

Obviously in her case it was a miscarriage of justice, while in Amaral and Brueckner's cases it wasn't. Who decides? Anyone who wants to, it seems.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 09:40:25 AM
Leonor - kills her own child, the most heinous act a human can perpetrate.......convicted........innocent.
I see how it works now.

Theres no evidence against her apart from a confession beaten out of her...I think she may be guilty.
I don't think there any doubt about the guilt of Amaral or Breukner


All based on the available evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 20, 2020, 09:42:27 AM
Leonor - kills her own child, the most heinous act a human can perpetrate.......convicted........innocent.
I see how it works now.

mcann supporters have always defended  her
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2020, 09:49:42 AM
mcann supporters have always defended  her

Would they have cared if Amaral hadn't been involved in her case I wonder?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 20, 2020, 09:51:00 AM
Would they have cared if Amaral hadn't been involved in her case I wonder?


probably   not
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 10:00:51 AM
Would they have cared if Amaral hadn't been involved in her case I wonder?

Would sceptics be seeing is as a possible miscarriage of justice if Amaral had not been involved...I wonder
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 10:11:14 AM
According to a journalist interviewing Amaral most Portuguese think Cipriano is innocent
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 20, 2020, 10:15:41 AM
mcann supporters have always defended  her

Leonore Cipriano was tortured in police custody.

A Portuguese court said so.

Amaral was convicted of covering up her torture.

I think it possible that members don't fully appreciate how badly condoning torture reflects on them.  A group of men laying into a defenceless blindfolded woman (bag over her head} and beating her until she required hospitalisation is not an edifying thing to support or defend. In my opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 20, 2020, 10:32:18 AM
Leonore Cipriano was tortured in police custody.

A Portuguese court said so.

Amaral was convicted of covering up her torture.

I think it possible that members don't fully appreciate how badly condoning torture reflects on them.  A group of men laying into a defenceless blindfolded woman (bag over her head} and beating her until she required hospitalisation is not an edifying thing to support or defend. In my opinion.
She murdered her own daughter. End of. Try defending that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 10:39:06 AM
She murdered her own daughter. End of. Try defending that.

Your post is opinion.. Not fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2020, 11:25:35 AM
Leonore Cipriano was tortured in police custody.

A Portuguese court said so.

Amaral was convicted of covering up her torture.

I think it possible that members don't fully appreciate how badly condoning torture reflects on them.  A group of men laying into a defenceless blindfolded woman (bag over her head} and beating her until she required hospitalisation is not an edifying thing to support or defend. In my opinion.

The Portuguese Courts also found her guilty of murder and Amaral et al not guilty of defamation. Do you accept those judgements too?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 20, 2020, 11:32:55 AM
Your post is opinion.. Not fact

Using that logic, it is only opinion that Ian Huntley murdered Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 11:59:17 AM
Using that logic, it is only opinion that Ian Huntley murdered Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.
You should be able to work that out for yourself...it's quite logical perhaps some don't realise
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2020, 12:03:50 PM
You should be able to work that out for yourself...it's quite logical perhaps some don't realise

I find your 'logic' very difficult to follow. It seems so illogical.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 12:07:41 PM
I find your 'logic' very difficult to follow. It seems so illogical.

In what way... Whether Cipriano murdered her daughter is opinion..not fact...
Until it's proven beyond all doubt...which it hasn't been...her guilt remains opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 12:12:23 PM
Leonore Cipriano was tortured in police custody.

A Portuguese court said so.

Amaral was convicted of covering up her torture.

I think it possible that members don't fully appreciate how badly condoning torture reflects on them.  A group of men laying into a defenceless blindfolded woman (bag over her head} and beating her until she required hospitalisation is not an edifying thing to support or defend. In my opinion.

Or a shambles of a women who was convicted of  one of the most abhorrent crimes, changed her story more regularly than most of us change our mind and had time added to her sentence for lying. Who quite possibly was beaten by her fellow inmates who, strangely enough, don’t like child killers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Or a shambles of a women who was convicted of  one of the most abhorrent crimes, changed her story more regularly than most of us change our mind and had time added to her sentence for lying. Who quite possibly was beaten by her fellow inmates who, strangely enough, don’t like child killers.

If the PJ had claimed she was beaten by other prisoners your claim might have some truth.
The PJ said her injuries happened when she fell down the stairs in their presence. That places them present when the injuries happened. I think it's quite possible she's innocent
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 12:20:13 PM
In what way... Whether Cipriano murdered her daughter is opinion..not fact...
Until it's proven beyond all doubt...which it hasn't been...her guilt remains opinion

So you don’t think Huntley is guilty ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 12:22:42 PM
So you don’t think Huntley is guilty ?

Based on the evidence yes...

Barry George was found guilty at his trial...that doesn't make him guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 12:36:51 PM
Based on the evidence yes...

Barry George was found guilty at his trial...that doesn't make him guilty

And his conviction was quashed on appeal.

How many appeals has the Cipriano woman had ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 12:42:13 PM
And his conviction was quashed on appeal.

How many appeals has the Cipriano woman had ?
This has been discussed at length... anymore is pointless...it's all on the other board..
It seems most Portuguese think she's innocent
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 20, 2020, 12:48:20 PM
This has been discussed at length... anymore is pointless...it's all on the other board..
It seems most Portuguese think she's innocent
Another Trumpesque brag.
Having read the whole sordid Correia affair, it's pretty unequivocal that a. she did it, b. she admitted it in the presence of her lawyer (Celia Costa), c. she fabricated the whole torture nonsense (Calado requesting paperwork be manipulated).
So yes, let's move on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 12:50:52 PM
Another Trumpesque brag.
Having read the whole sordid Correia affair, it's pretty unequivocal that a. she did it, b. she admitted it in the presence of her lawyer (Celia Costa), c. she fabricated the whole torture nonsense (Calado requesting paperwork be manipulated).
So yes, let's move on.
I think your post is complete codswallop...no admission in front of her lawyer.... torture by PJ proved....but yes let's move on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on August 20, 2020, 12:51:27 PM
This has been discussed at length... anymore is pointless...it's all on the other board..
It seems most Portuguese think she's innocent

She's a liar and a perjurer and assisted a felon after a crime, anything more is doubtful.  Both she and her brother ultimately admitted that he did it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 12:53:54 PM
She's a liar and a perjurer and assisted a felon after a crime, anything more is doubtful.  Both she and her brother ultimately admitted that he did it.
I don't think she did..but it's all off topic...and already been discussed at length
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2020, 01:09:34 PM
In what way... Whether Cipriano murdered her daughter is opinion..not fact...
Until it's proven beyond all doubt...which it hasn't been...her guilt remains opinion

So is any conviction. In law she's guilty, just like any other convicted criminal. That's a fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 01:10:25 PM
I think your post is complete codswallop...no admission in front of her lawyer.... torture by PJ proved....but yes let's move on

Her lawyer, the one before Grade, was present at the questioning that elicited her confession but said nothing about torture.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 20, 2020, 01:13:57 PM
Her lawyer, the one before Grade, was present at the questioning that elicited her confession but said nothing about torture.

I have yet to see any definitive proof of this.  So a Cite would be useful.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 20, 2020, 01:20:10 PM
I think your post is complete codswallop...no admission in front of her lawyer.... torture by PJ proved....but yes let's move on
We need to move on because I'm proved right.
And please don't insult me any further; I've recently been censured for referring to a gentleman as 'an internet dude', so I'm sure codswallop, as arcane and obsolete a term as it is, should attract similar moderator scrutiny.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 01:29:56 PM
I have yet to see any definitive proof of this.  So a Cite would be useful.
If true why did a Portuguese court conclude she'd been tortured.  Sounds like codswallop to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 01:31:53 PM
So is any conviction. In law she's guilty, just like any other convicted criminal. That's a fact.

No...shes guilty beyond reasonable doubt...according to the law. That doesnt mean guilty beyond all doubt...that doesnt mean she definitely murdered Joanna. it's possible she's innocent...that's a fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 01:32:11 PM
She's a liar and a perjurer and assisted a felon after a crime, anything more is doubtful.  Both she and her brother ultimately admitted that he did it.
the General has repeatedly claimed on this thread that she murdered her own child but she didn't actually commit the murder (if she was even involved at all), so could you sort him out for the sake of accuracy ta.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 01:32:50 PM
Her lawyer, the one before Grade, was present at the questioning that elicited her confession but said nothing about torture.

You are believing myths...imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
I think your post is complete codswallop...no admission in front of her lawyer.... torture by PJ proved....but yes let's move on
The General believes torture is an acceptable way to get a confession, it's not possible to have a reasoned arguement with him, so I wouldn't bother if I were you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 01:34:39 PM
We need to move on because I'm proved right.
And please don't insult me any further; I've recently been censured for referring to a gentleman as 'an internet dude', so I'm sure codswallop, as arcane and obsolete a term as it is, should attract similar moderator scrutiny.

You haven't been proved right. I referred to your post as codswallop. It seems the rules allow such descriptions of posts...but not the individual
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 01:40:01 PM
Thomas Quick admitted to killing loads of people and was found guilty of the crimes.  Does that mean he did them?  No.  It was only because of the parents of one of his supposed victims that his case was looked at again by the justice system in Sweden I believe, otherwise he'd still be languishing in jail, supposedly one of the most heinous serial killers in Swedish history. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 01:43:16 PM
the court verdict is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.....thats decided in the Uk by the Jury...its their decision base d on their opinion.

in the Cipriano case there were three judges...two found bguity...one not guilty. again tahts the opinion of the judges and not proof of absolute guilt
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 20, 2020, 01:51:07 PM
Using that logic, it is only opinion that Ian Huntley murdered Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.

Ian Huntley was not tortured during his police interrogation ... nor should he have been.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2020, 01:59:48 PM
No...shes guilty beyond reasonable doubt...according to the law. That doesnt mean guilty beyond all doubt...that doesnt mean she definitely murdered Joanna. it's possible she's innocent...that's a fact

So its possible Amaral was right, its not been challenged in a court of law, thats a fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 02:01:59 PM
I have yet to see any definitive proof of this.  So a Cite would be useful.

The cite has been posted many times on this very forum over the years. I’m sure if you put it in the search facility you’ll find it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 02:03:44 PM
Ian Huntley was not tortured during his police interrogation ... nor should he have been.

Nor was Cipriano.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 02:08:20 PM
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/cipriano-case-leonor-cipriano-confessed.html

Leonor Confessed the crime on the 13th of October and she alleges she was beaten a day later

Leonor Cipriano, the killer meanwhile condemned, confessed all of this facts to the PJ on the 13th of October 2004, in the presence of  her lawyer, who at the time was Célia Costa, who has also signed statements that were given to the Inspector Pereira Cristovão. Leonor's brother, João Cipriano,  had previously confessed the crimes a few days before,  on the 8 of October.

Leonor is doing the 16 years that she was condemned to, but the Public Ministry [MP] considers that the mother was beaten in the PJ of Faro on the 14th of October 2004. For the Defense of four of the five accused inspectors, it would not make any sense the policeman in question to beat the suspect to get a confession, even because "both of them had already admitted that they were responsible for Joana's death", said the lawyer António Pragal Colaço
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2020, 02:13:31 PM
No...shes guilty beyond reasonable doubt...according to the law. That doesnt mean guilty beyond all doubt...that doesnt mean she definitely murdered Joanna. it's possible she's innocent...that's a fact

So despite having it on tape the torture of Lesley Anne downey the evil duo might not have done it, some logic that is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 02:20:07 PM
The cite has been posted many times on this very forum over the years. I’m sure if you put it in the search facility you’ll find it.

There has never been an independent reliable cite for a confession with lawyer present..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 02:21:10 PM


A court never finds anyone guilty...only beyond reasonable doubt
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2020, 02:27:03 PM
A court never finds anyone guilty...only beyond reasonable doubt

I've said all along the new suspect isn't involved, it'll only likely be, beyond reasonable doubt, at least we agree on that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 20, 2020, 02:32:35 PM
the court verdict is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.....thats decided in the Uk by the Jury...its their decision base d on their opinion.

in the Cipriano case there were three judges...two found bguity...one not guilty. again tahts the opinion of the judges and not proof of absolute guilt
If you use the lack of a unanimous verdict as grounds for doubt on a conviction then chuck in Ian Huntley as well as he was convicted on majority decision not a unanimous one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 02:32:49 PM
So despite having it on tape the torture of Lesley Anne downey the evil duo might not have done it, some logic that is.

I'm afraid you don't seem to understand my logic
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 02:34:18 PM
If you use the lack of a unanimous verdict as grounds for doubt on a conviction then chuck in Ian Huntley as well as he was convicted on majority decision not a unanimous one.
I pointed out the verdict is an opinion..that's perfectly true and logical
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 20, 2020, 02:35:41 PM
The cite has been posted many times on this very forum over the years. I’m sure if you put it in the search facility you’ll find it.

I don't think so.  And even Angelo is backtracking.

And Leonor Cipriano was tortured by factions of The PJ, according to The Portuguese Court.

Why would they have tortured her if she had already confessed to murder?

It actually doesn't make sense.  Does it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 02:41:10 PM
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/cipriano-case-leonor-cipriano-confessed.html

Leonor Confessed the crime on the 13th of October and she alleges she was beaten a day later

Leonor Cipriano, the killer meanwhile condemned, confessed all of this facts to the PJ on the 13th of October 2004, in the presence of  her lawyer, who at the time was Célia Costa, who has also signed statements that were given to the Inspector Pereira Cristovão. Leonor's brother, João Cipriano,  had previously confessed the crimes a few days before,  on the 8 of October.

Leonor is doing the 16 years that she was condemned to, but the Public Ministry [MP] considers that the mother was beaten in the PJ of Faro on the 14th of October 2004. For the Defense of four of the five accused inspectors, it would not make any sense the policeman in question to beat the suspect to get a confession, even because "both of them had already admitted that they were responsible for Joana's death", said the lawyer António Pragal Colaço

So the source is the lawyer for the accused torturers

As I said no independent reliable cite

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 20, 2020, 02:41:36 PM
I pointed out the verdict is an opinion..that's perfectly true and logical

Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 02:42:12 PM
So despite having it on tape the torture of Lesley Anne downey the evil duo might not have done it, some logic that is.

As I've said all along it depends on the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 20, 2020, 03:12:51 PM
So despite having it on tape the torture of Lesley Anne downey the evil duo might not have done it, some logic that is.

I think the evidence was quite compelling as far as Brady and Hindley were concerned ... probably starting with their last victim and working backwards from there.

Edward Evan's body was found in Hindley's grandmother's house having been attacked with an axe and strangled.  He was only seventeen.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ian-brady-myra-hindleys-house-10432360

Neither Brady or Hindley were beaten or tortured ... nor should they have been.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 05:24:02 PM
I don't think so.  And even Angelo is backtracking.

And Leonor Cipriano was tortured by factions of The PJ, according to The Portuguese Court.

Why would they have tortured her if she had already confessed to murder?

It actually doesn't make sense.  Does it.

But surely you don’t trust Portuguese justice.....or is it just when it suits ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 05:34:52 PM
So despite having it on tape the torture of Lesley Anne downey the evil duo might not have done it, some logic that is.
That is an idiotic observation imo.  What actual evidence exists apart from a decidedly dodgy confession  that Leonor Cipriano murdered her child? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 05:35:03 PM
But surely you don’t trust Portuguese justice.....or is it just when it suits ?

It's obviously not as simple as that ....it depends on the evidence presented
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 05:38:01 PM
Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.
If that’s the case then it is true that OJ Simpson did not murder his wife or her lover.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 20, 2020, 05:38:56 PM
But surely you don’t trust Portuguese justice.....or is it just when it suits ?

Was Amaral Convicted of Perjury for covering up the Torture of Leonor Cipriano?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 20, 2020, 05:45:25 PM
So the source is the lawyer for the accused torturers

As I said no independent reliable cite

Interesting that one of the accused is Cristovao ... who I believe got off with the others because Leonore Cipriano had no idea which men were taking turns to beat her ... very likely as a result of the bag over her head.

If memory serves me well her sentence was extended as a result despite the court finding that she had been tortured.
Portuguese justice at it's best no doubt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 05:49:19 PM
Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.

there is certainly  a flaw in your logic....you need to define "proven". A fact is something that is proven beyond all doubt...thats not what a court verdict does. Cipriano is not guilty beyond all doubt...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 20, 2020, 05:54:05 PM
Was Amaral Convicted of Perjury for covering up the Torture of Leonor Cipriano?

Unlike Elvis he hadn't left the building ... I believe he was there while all this was happening.

If memory serves me well Leonor Cipriano alleged that she had been forced to kneel on two glass ashtrays supplied by Amaral ... maybe he just wanted make sure the guys didn't get ash on the carpet.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
It's obviously not as simple as that ....it depends on the evidence presented

The evidence was enough to convince a Portuguese court....that’s really all we need to know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 05:57:23 PM
Was Amaral Convicted of Perjury for covering up the Torture of Leonor Cipriano?

Of course.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 06:00:19 PM
Interesting that one of the accused is Cristovao ... who I believe got off with the others because Leonore Cipriano had no idea which men were taking turns to beat her ... very likely as a result of the bag over her head.

If memory serves me well her sentence was extended as a result despite the court finding that she had been tortured.
Portuguese justice at it's best no doubt.

Yet with a bag over her head she initially managed to identify Amaral as one of her assailants.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 06:03:01 PM
The evidence was enough to convince a Portuguese court....that’s really all we need to know.

Might be all you need to know.....but not me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 06:03:57 PM
Yet with a bag over her head she initially managed to identify Amaral as one of her assailants.
cite...looks like you are wrong yet again
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2020, 06:06:31 PM
Yet with a bag over her head she initially managed to identify Amaral as one of her assailants.

Is that.correct?
She did actually say he was one of her assailants.
I believed he took no part in her beatings but lied to cover up those who did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 06:09:42 PM
Is that.correct?
She did actually say he was one of her assailants.
I believed he took no part in her beatings but lied to cover up those who did.

I think its faith making things up ....it was gunit a few days ago failing to provide  a cite....when the truth wont do...make things up....seems to be the MO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 06:18:05 PM
Might be all you need to know.....but not me.

Strangely the Portuguese court didn’t ask you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 06:20:51 PM
Strangely the Portuguese court didn’t ask you.

what  a stupid post...no surprises
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 20, 2020, 06:21:58 PM


I would like one of.the posters who are so adamant that her guilty verdict was the correct one to post which piece of evidence gives them their confidence in  her guilt was proven.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 20, 2020, 06:24:11 PM
Was Amaral Convicted of Perjury for covering up the Torture of Leonor Cipriano?
Snip
When Leonor was invited to identify her aggressors by an investigating magistrate in Évora in 2006, she was only able to identify one official who was present and did nothing to prevent the abuses, possibly because she had had a bag over her head for long periods, or due to the time that had passed, or because not all her torturers were among the six officers placed before her. https://www.statewatch.org/news/2008/may/portugal-report-on-torture-suffered-by-leonor-cipriano/



Amaral was one of the two who left a paper trail and were convicted as a result. 

They tortured Leonor Cipriano for two days unsurprisingly resulting in her severe injury.  I'll guarantee there is not one person posting here who would not eventually have agreed to whatever they wanted said probably long before Leonor had to give in.

The pain endured in her knees must have been indescribable.



Snip
Two glass ashtrays were placed on the floor, and Leonor was forced to kneel on them, without being allowed to get up until she confessed. She showed Correia the scars on her knees, still visible four years later.  https://www.statewatch.org/news/2008/may/portugal-report-on-torture-suffered-by-leonor-cipriano/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 06:53:17 PM
I think it's fairly certain that her trial would have been ruled unfair based on the torture if it had been referred to the ECHR
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 07:07:43 PM
Is that.correct?
She did actually say he was one of her assailants.
I believed he took no part in her beatings but lied to cover up those who did.

From the Portugal Resident:

‘Leonor Cipriano is accusing police of torture and beatings during interrogations into the case surrounding her daughter Joana.
 
She was later sentenced to 16 years imprisonment for the murder of her daughter, although no body has ever been found in the case.
 
Five members of the police have been accused by Leonor Cipriano, including Goncalo Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 20, 2020, 07:08:12 PM
Snip
When Leonor was invited to identify her aggressors by an investigating magistrate in Évora in 2006, she was only able to identify one official who was present and did nothing to prevent the abuses, possibly because she had had a bag over her head for long periods, or due to the time that had passed, or because not all her torturers were among the six officers placed before her. https://www.statewatch.org/news/2008/may/portugal-report-on-torture-suffered-by-leonor-cipriano/



Amaral was one of the two who left a paper trail and were convicted as a result. 

They tortured Leonor Cipriano for two days unsurprisingly resulting in her severe injury.  I'll guarantee there is not one person posting here who would not eventually have agreed to whatever they wanted said probably long before Leonor had to give in.

The pain endured in her knees must have been indescribable.



Snip
Two glass ashtrays were placed on the floor, and Leonor was forced to kneel on them, without being allowed to get up until she confessed. She showed Correia the scars on her knees, still visible four years later.  https://www.statewatch.org/news/2008/may/portugal-report-on-torture-suffered-by-leonor-cipriano/
It's all lies.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 07:10:38 PM
It's all lies.

No it isn't
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 07:12:44 PM
From the Portugal Resident:

‘Leonor Cipriano is accusing police of torture and beatings during interrogations into the case surrounding her daughter Joana.
 
She was later sentenced to 16 years imprisonment for the murder of her daughter, although no body has ever been found in the case.
 
Five members of the police have been accused by Leonor Cipriano, including Goncalo Amaral.
It's no wonder you get things wrong if you rely on this paper for your information. As  I recall Cipriano claimed Amaral was present...not that he took part in the beating
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 20, 2020, 07:19:54 PM
No it isn't
Yep.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on August 20, 2020, 07:22:42 PM
Interesting that one of the accused is Cristovao ... who I believe got off with the others because Leonore Cipriano had no idea which men were taking turns to beat her ... very likely as a result of the bag over her head.

If memory serves me well her sentence was extended as a result despite the court finding that she had been tortured.
Portuguese justice at it's best no doubt.
The one who strongly resembles witness accounts at 10h00 on 3/5/07. Only my opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 07:25:55 PM
It's all lies.
I guess the prison director was lying too then?

Correia then spoke to Odemira prison director Ana Maria Calado, who confirmed Leonor Cipriano's account, noting how shocked she was about her conditions, with black marks, haematomae and bruising in her face, mainly around her eyes, her head and ribs, mainly on her sides. She assured that the physical marks clearly indicated a violent aggression and not a fall down some stairs, something the legal-medical report also confirmed. She noted that Cipriano's conditions worsened a week after she was tortured, as the blood that had gathered at the height of her brows was so much that it ended up falling over her eyes, leaving her practically blind for almost a month, and the director regrets not having ordered photographs of this period to be taken. She also said that relations between Cipriano and the prison guards and other prisoners were good, and that she did not believe that she had attempted suicide
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 07:31:07 PM
I would have thought Statewatch would be an organisation that human rights activists  like Faithlilly would have utmost respect for.   Seems human rights abuses are only interesting to some if they are committed by UK, US or Israeli governments.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2020, 07:35:51 PM
Yep.
The verdict is he opinion of the court but not proof of absolute guilt..that is a fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 20, 2020, 09:07:05 PM
It's no wonder you get things wrong if you rely on this paper for your information. As  I recall Cipriano claimed Amaral was present...not that he took part in the beating

She was unable to say who had participated in her beating ... she couldn't see because they had put a bag over her head.

You know, the more I say that, the more I realise just how wickedly these brutes violated her.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 10:53:46 PM
It's no wonder you get things wrong if you rely on this paper for your information. As  I recall Cipriano claimed Amaral was present...not that he took part in the beating

Then, as ever, you’re wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 10:55:32 PM
The one who strongly resembles witness accounts at 10h00 on 3/5/07. Only my opinion.

Dear oh dear oh dear.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 20, 2020, 11:00:26 PM
She was unable to say who had participated in her beating ... she couldn't see because they had put a bag over her head.

You know, the more I say that, the more I realise just how wickedly these brutes violated her.

It wouldn’t take a genius to find out who was on duty in the police station that night.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 20, 2020, 11:01:32 PM
Then, as ever, you’re wrong.


people on here have  said amaral  also beat   her when he didnt
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2020, 11:06:00 PM

people on here have  said amaral  also beat   her when he didnt
cite please
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 21, 2020, 01:55:05 AM

people on here have  said amaral  also beat   her when he didnt

Snip
Meanwhile, and in the absence of any evidence, the five officers involved became aggressive, shouted and unsuccessfully tried to convince her to confess, after which the torture began.
The torture lasted for two days, after which she signed a confession,  https://www.statewatch.org/news/2008/may/portugal-report-on-torture-suffered-by-leonor-cipriano/



Morais identifies the five as ... and three of these are the ones who stood trial for torture although only two were convicted of 'lesser' crimes ... Amaral being one.

Snip
The ministerio publico (MP) - district attorney - charged three officers with torture, a fourth with omission of evidence and a fifth with falsification of documents.
_____________________________________________

It is alleged that the beating took place as Cipriano was questioned without a lawyer, according to the Portuguese Expresso newspaper. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/maddie-cop-attacked-mum-994951

Snip
In May, the Faro Court sentenced Gonçalo Amaral to a year and a half in prison with a suspended sentence for false testimony in the case of the aggressions against Leonor Cipriano.

It was taken for granted that Leonor Cipriano was assaulted in the PJ by unidentified elements of the Judiciary, and did not fall on the stairs, as was suggested. However, the court was unable to determine the perpetrators of the attacks. https://www.publico.pt/2009/07/01/sociedade/noticia/mp-acusa-exinspector-da-pj-goncalo-amaral-de-tortura-a-leandro-silva-1389690
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 07:48:00 AM
She was unable to say who had participated in her beating ... she couldn't see because they had put a bag over her head.

You know, the more I say that, the more I realise just how wickedly these brutes violated her.
It's simply not true. Why would she, or any else for that matter, agree to a line up if she knew she wouldn't be able to identify any of them due to the mythical bag? Come on now, even you can process that logic - her lawyer would ask her if she thought she would be able to identify anyone, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered their arses as it would damage their case.

But consider how wicked she must be, watching her daughter being violently killed. As depraved as it gets.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 21, 2020, 07:53:44 AM
It's simply not true. Why would she, or any else for that matter, agree to a line up if she knew she wouldn't be able to identify any of them due to the mythical bag? Come on now, even you can process that logic - her lawyer would ask her if she thought she would be able to identify anyone, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered their arses as it would damage their case.

But consider how wicked she must be, watching her daughter being violently killed. As depraved as it gets.

and some people on here  support her because they believe amaral was involved in beating her    its called being biased  if amaral didnt speak  out about the mcanns  they wouldnt give a shit about  her or  her  daughter 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 07:57:59 AM
It's simply not true. Why would she, or any else for that matter, agree to a line up if she knew she wouldn't be able to identify any of them due to the mythical bag? Come on now, even you can process that logic - her lawyer would ask her if she thought she would be able to identify anyone, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered their arses as it would damage their case.

But consider how wicked she must be, watching her daughter being violently killed. As depraved as it gets.

I dont beleive she killed he rdaughter based on the evidence...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 07:59:32 AM
I dont beleive she killed he rdaughter based on the evidence...

Based on the evidence, I think she was right there, which is the same.
Do you believe she couldn't identify her alleged attackers because she had a bag on her head the whole time?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 21, 2020, 08:01:40 AM
Based on the evidence, I think she was right there, which is the same.
Do you believe she couldn't identify her alleged attackers because she had a bag on her head the whole time?

if she had a bag on her head for  2 days she would be  dead  from lack of oxygen
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 08:04:56 AM
Based on the evidence, I think she was right there, which is the same.
Do you believe she couldn't identify her alleged attackers because she had a bag on her head the whole time?

I dont beleieve she did have a bag on her head the whole time...and I dont beleive the PJ and amaral who claimed she fell down the stairs. Do you beleive she threw herslf down the stairs. i believe she was beaten to get  aconfession. I don't beleive the claim of the pj lawyer that she voluntarily confessed the day before
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 08:09:11 AM
I think its highly significant that teh PJ didnt care who knew taht she had been tortured...no attempt to conceal it. It shows the contempt they had for the justice system and they felt they were untouchable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 08:13:14 AM
I dont beleieve she did have a bag on her head the whole time...and I dont beleive the PJ and amaral who claimed she fell down the stairs. Do you beleive she threw herslf down the stairs. i believe she was beaten to get  aconfession. I don't beleive the claim of the pj lawyer that she voluntarily confessed the day before
No, I don't believe it. None of it. She changed her tune more times than a 2 bit jukebox. The medical examiner's report supports the desperate act of a bereft, damaged perpetrator of infanticide - she couldn't wriggle out of it and acted like the coward she is as she stared in to the abyss, undoubtedly spitting bile and hissing like a viper as she threw herself down the stairs, not to kill herself, but in a successful attempt to damage herself enough to procure temporary solace in a medical facility.
She's not a narcissist, she's deeply selfish, more interested in getting her end away and getting smashed, instead of caring for her kids. Is she looking for Joana now? No, of course not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 08:13:55 AM
you have to look at the evidence.

the PJ admitted they were present when the injuries occurred....thats now a fact
they said her injurues were as a result of afall down stairs.

the doctor said that a fall would not have produced these injuries.

Its relatively safe to accept her claim her injuries were as  aresult of a beating...is there any other explanation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 08:15:02 AM
No, I don't believe it. None of it. She changed her tune more times than a 2 bit jukebox. The medical examiner's report supports the desperate act of a bereft, damaged perpetrator of infanticide - she couldn't wriggle out of it and acted like the coward she is as she stared in to the abyss, undoubtedly spitting bile and hissing like a viper as she threw herself down the stairs, not to kill herself, but in a successful attempt damage herself enough to procure temporary solace in a medical facility.
She's not a narcissist, she's deeply selfish, more interested in getting her end away and getting smashed, instead of caring for her kids. Is she looking for Joana now? No, of course not.

total claptrap..imo  cite for the medical report supprting the stair event
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 21, 2020, 08:17:06 AM
No, I don't believe it. None of it. She changed her tune more times than a 2 bit jukebox. The medical examiner's report supports the desperate act of a bereft, damaged perpetrator of infanticide - she couldn't wriggle out of it and acted like the coward she is as she stared in to the abyss, undoubtedly spitting bile and hissing like a viper as she threw herself down the stairs, not to kill herself, but in a successful attempt damage herself enough to procure temporary solace in a medical facility.
She's not a narcissist, she's deeply selfish, more interested in getting her end away and getting smashed, instead of caring for her kids. Is she looking for Joana now? No, of course not.

even the most hardened  prisoner   dont tolerate  child killers in jail its a unspoken rule in worldwide jails
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 08:17:33 AM
total claptrap..imo
I commend you on your erudite and informative response.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 08:19:19 AM
I commend you on your erudite and informative response.

its short ...apt and straight to the point...and what your post deserves
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 08:45:56 AM
its short ...apt and straight to the point...and what your post deserves
And I appreciate your input and brevity.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2020, 08:50:15 AM

A court never finds anyone guilty...only beyond reasonable doubt

You are aware, of course, that 'reasonable doubt' is only relevant in adversarial legal systems? Portugal's is an inquisitorial legal system.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 21, 2020, 09:04:00 AM
No, I don't believe it. None of it. She changed her tune more times than a 2 bit jukebox. The medical examiner's report supports the desperate act of a bereft, damaged perpetrator of infanticide - she couldn't wriggle out of it and acted like the coward she is as she stared in to the abyss, undoubtedly spitting bile and hissing like a viper as she threw herself down the stairs, not to kill herself, but in a successful attempt to damage herself enough to procure temporary solace in a medical facility.
She's not a narcissist, she's deeply selfish, more interested in getting her end away and getting smashed, instead of caring for her kids. Is she looking for Joana now? No, of course not.
So we can put that verdict of the Portuguese court down as yet another failing of thr PT judicial system then? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 09:04:48 AM
You are aware, of course, that 'reasonable doubt' is only relevant in adversarial legal systems? Portugal's is an inquisitorial legal system.

I'm aware that Portugal must have an equivalent.to reasonable doubt ....no system could operate on ..beyond all doubt...I'm sure you would have to agree
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 09:27:36 AM
You are aware, of course, that 'reasonable doubt' is only relevant in adversarial legal systems? Portugal's is an inquisitorial legal system.

Cite
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2020, 09:32:57 AM
I'm aware that Portugal must have an equivalent.to reasonable doubt ....no system could operate on ..beyond all doubt...I'm sure you would have to agree

Let me know when you find out. In the interim please make it clear that 'reasonable doubt' is a concept which doesn't apply to Portugal, or to most European countries for that matter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 09:35:38 AM
Let me know when you find out. In the interim please make it clear that 'reasonable doubt' is a concept which doesn't apply to Portugal, or to most European countries for that matter.

Again cite required for your claim... beyond all doubt is not possible
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 09:45:29 AM
Let me know when you find out. In the interim please make it clear that 'reasonable doubt' is a concept which doesn't apply to Portugal, or to most European countries for that matter.
once again you make a claim and cannot provide a cite
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 21, 2020, 10:36:19 AM
Interestingly  "In an inquisitorial system, a confession of guilt would not be regarded as ground for a guilty verdict. The prosecutor is required to provide evidence supporting a guilty verdict".  So just what was the compelling evidence that proved that Cipriano murdered her child?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 10:38:31 AM
Let me know when you find out. In the interim please make it clear that 'reasonable doubt' is a concept which doesn't apply to Portugal, or to most European countries for that matter.

Criminal proceedings
In accordance with Portuguese constitutional principles (the presumption of innocence,
which provides that a defendant cannot be considered guilty until its final conviction), the
burden of proof lies on the public prosecutor, either in proving beyond reasonable doubt the
defendant’s guilt in relation to certain criminal offences, or in proving that specific assets are
the proceeds of such criminal offence and, as such, must be confiscated.


http://www.raassociados.pt/media/documents/theassettracingandrecoveryreview.pdf

page 6...

looks like you are making things up...you should adjust your posts accordingly

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 21, 2020, 10:43:18 AM
If that’s the case then it is true that OJ Simpson did not murder his wife or her lover.

I assumed it was a given that on a site called miscarriage of justice we are all aware that wrongful convictions or acquittals are quite common. With that in mind please point out which part of my post (reproduced below) that you find to be incorrect or misleading.

“Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.”
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2020, 10:44:20 AM
once again you make a claim and cannot provide a cite

Beyond a reasonable doubt is a legal standard of proof required to validate a criminal conviction in most adversarial legal systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 21, 2020, 10:47:12 AM
I assumed it was a given that on a site called miscarriage of justice we are all aware that wrongful convictions or acquittals are quite common. With that in mind please point out which part of my post (reproduced below) that you find to be incorrect or misleading.

“Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.”
No need, you've admitted that wrongful convictions are (in your words) "quite common", so if one holds the opinion that Cipriano's case was one such, why would you argue so strenuously that it was not?  Based on what, exactly?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 10:48:40 AM
Beyond a reasonable doubt is a legal standard of proof required to validate a criminal conviction in most adversarial legal systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt

What absolute rubbish imo...your cite doesnt mention portugal....and doesnt exclude other european countries. My cite confirming ...beyond reasonable doubt...comes from a portuguese lawyer....best just admit you are wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 21, 2020, 10:50:17 AM
No need, you've admitted that wrongful convictions are (in your words) "quite common", so if one holds the opinion that Cipriano's case was one such, why would you argue so strenuously that it was not?  Based on what, exactly?

Please point me to the post where I argue so strenuously that Cipriano's conviction was not a wrongful conviction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 10:50:52 AM
I assumed it was a given that on a site called miscarriage of justice we are all aware that wrongful convictions or acquittals are quite common. With that in mind please point out which part of my post (reproduced below) that you find to be incorrect or misleading.

“Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.”

again you dont define ..proof..

A court proves  a case beyond reasonable doubt...that doesnt mean the alegation is true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 21, 2020, 10:54:54 AM
Please point me to the post where I argue so strenuously that Cipriano's conviction was not a wrongful conviction.
Oh right, so you concede it may well be a wrongful conviction?  My apologies, I thought you were arguing that it could not be. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 21, 2020, 10:55:37 AM
again you dont define ..proof..

A court proves  a case beyond reasonable doubt...that doesnt mean the alegation is true

I thought it was a given that proof in a legal sense means beyond all reasonable doubt. If we say that a conviction is just an opinion nothing more, we are belittling and denigrating the legal systems that have operated all over the world for thousands of years. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 21, 2020, 10:59:13 AM
Oh right, so you concede it may well be a wrongful conviction?  My apologies, I thought you were arguing that it could not be.

I don't concede it because to concede I must have first held a different view. Any conviction can be a wrongful conviction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 11:01:50 AM
I thought it was a given that proof in a legal sense means beyond all reasonable doubt. If we say that a conviction is just an opinion nothing more, we are belittling and denigrating the legal systems that have operated all over the world for thousands of years.

It is an opinion based on the evidence...what else can it be. That's exactly why there are miscarriages of justice.

what else can it possibly be apart from an opinion


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 21, 2020, 11:15:35 AM
It is an opinion based on the evidence...what else can it be. That's exactly why there are miscarriages of justice.

what else can it possibly be apart from an opinion



It is an opinion based on the evidence, but to refer to as just an opinion and not a verdict denigrates the whole legal system.
And using your logic it still applies that you believe it is opinion that Ian Huntley is a murderer. If not why is his case different?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
It is an opinion based on the evidence, but to refer to as just an opinion and not a verdict denigrates the whole legal system.
And using your logic it still applies that you believe it is opinion that Ian Huntley is a murderer. If not why is his case different?

So you now agree a verdict is an opinion...nothing more. How valid the opinion is depends on the evidence presented.. Cases vary as to the level of evidence presented so that's what makes cases different.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 11:31:16 AM
So you now agree a verdict is an opinion...nothing more. How valid the opinion is depends on the evidence presented.. Cases vary as to the level of evidence presented so that's what makes cases different.
You've changed your tune; earlier the concept was an absolute - you're qualifying the opinion now.
At least you're turning in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 21, 2020, 11:34:25 AM
So you now agree a verdict is an opinion...nothing more. How valid the opinion is depends on the evidence presented.. Cases vary as to the level of evidence presented so that's what makes cases different.
No, I disagree a verdict and an opinion are different things. A verdict is reached by a person’s opinion but when a verdict is decided it is no longer opinion.
So is Ciprianos conviction opinion whereas Huntleys isnt?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 11:36:32 AM
You've changed your tune; earlier the concept was an absolute - you're qualifying the opinion now.
At least you're turning in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

I havent changed anything...you are obvioulsy not following the logic

a verdict is opinion based on evidence


Show me where Ive said anything different..perhaps youve imagined it...the posts are all there ..have  a look
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 21, 2020, 11:36:51 AM
No, I disagree a verdict and an opinion are different things. A verdict is reached by a person’s opinion but when a verdict is decided it is no longer opinion.
So is Ciprianos conviction opinion whereas Huntleys isnt?
What is a verdict then?  The truth?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 11:37:18 AM
No, I disagree a verdict and an opinion are different things. A verdict is reached by a person’s opinion but when a verdict is decided it is no longer opinion.
So is Ciprianos conviction opinion whereas Huntleys isnt?

you are wrong...they are both opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 21, 2020, 11:46:14 AM
What is a verdict then?  The truth?

No its a decision based on evidence presented before a court.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 21, 2020, 11:48:50 AM
No its a decision based on evidence presented before a court.
In my opinion based on the evidence X is guilty and therefore I decide to find him guilty.  It's all mincing words at the end of the day innit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 21, 2020, 11:52:40 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisitorial_system

There goes Leonor's Confession down the pan.  More evidence for The ECHR.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Icanhandlethetruth on August 21, 2020, 11:53:47 AM
In my opinion based on the evidence X is guilty and therefore I decide to find him guilty.  It's all mincing words at the end of the day innit.

Yes its all semantics. But I take issue with the idea that all verdicts are only opinions and nothing more, and then someone can decide which ones are opinions and which are verdicts. I disagree vehemently.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on August 21, 2020, 11:59:20 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisitorial_system

There goes Leonor's Confession down the pan.  More evidence for The ECHR.

The ECHR cannot overturn her conviction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 12:01:29 PM
Yes its all semantics. But I take issue with the idea that all verdicts are only opinions and nothing more, and then someone can decide which ones are opinions and which are verdicts. I disagree vehemently.
Agreed. I would suggest that at a very defined point in the proceedings the verdict becomes a statement of fact.

In law, a verdict is the formal finding of fact made by a jury on matters or questions submitted to the jury by a judge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdict (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdict)


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 21, 2020, 12:02:37 PM
The ECHR cannot overturn her conviction.

But they can award Compensation against The Portuguese State.  That'll do me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on August 21, 2020, 12:06:36 PM
You are aware, of course, that 'reasonable doubt' is only relevant in adversarial legal systems? Portugal's is an inquisitorial legal system.

"Portugal’s legal system is a civil law system.

As per civil proceedings, the Portuguese legal system should not be qualified as adversarial or inquisitorial. The civil procedure is based on the dispositive principle, which means that the parties are responsible for alleging the facts, gathering evidence and determining the nature of the evidence they choose to provide. The court’s role is primarily to conduct and oversee the proceedings to ensure that the evidence given is within the rules. It then weighs the evidence, according to pre-existing rules, to render its judgment. The court may, however, on its own initiative, request any evidence that it deems necessary to reach its decision, based on the facts lawfully acknowledged by it. Indeed, under Articles 411, 417, 452, 467 and 526 of the Civil Procedure Code (hereinafter “CPC”), the Court may call the parties to testify, order expert witnesses, call witnesses to testify and ask the parties or third parties to disclose documents or other evidence to support the facts. Witnesses’ testimonies are taken by the parties’ lawyers, but the parties’ testimony is taken by the judge.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 12:16:38 PM
But they can award Compensation against The Portuguese State.  That'll do me.
Unfortunately as I understand she had to apply within six months of the judgement so she's out of time
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 21, 2020, 12:25:35 PM
"Portugal’s legal system is a civil law system.

As per civil proceedings, the Portuguese legal system should not be qualified as adversarial or inquisitorial. The civil procedure is based on the dispositive principle, which means that the parties are responsible for alleging the facts, gathering evidence and determining the nature of the evidence they choose to provide. The court’s role is primarily to conduct and oversee the proceedings to ensure that the evidence given is within the rules. It then weighs the evidence, according to pre-existing rules,
to render its judgment. The court may, however, on its own initiative, request any evidence that it deems necessary
to reach its decision, based on the facts lawfully acknowledged by it. Indeed, under Articles
411, 417, 452, 467 and 526 of the Civil Procedure Code (hereinafter “CPC”), the Court may
call the parties to testify, order expert witnesses, call witnesses to testify and ask the parties
or third parties to disclose documents or other evidence to support the facts. Witnesses’ tes-
timonies are taken by the parties’ lawyers, but the parties’ testimony is taken by the judge.

What do you make of One Judge out of Three ruling in favour of Leonor Cipriano?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on August 21, 2020, 12:29:34 PM
What do you make of One Judge out of Three ruling in favour of Leonor Cipriano?

I agree with him. She didn't murder her daughter, she was merely an accomplice after the fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 21, 2020, 12:43:06 PM
Unfortunately as I understand she had to apply within six months of the judgement so she's out of time

You are undoubtedly right.  So Leonor Cipriano was let down by absolutely everyone.  What a disgrace.

Portugal will rue the day, of that I am sure.

This is wherein the light was first shone on what the hell was going on in Portugal.

Some blimming Revolution that was, bearing in mind that there were Two Revolutions while the real perpetrators sorted out and reinvented themselves.

This was Amaral's Last Stand.  And we all know what happened to Custer.

You see, I don't think that Amaral is entirely responsible.  It had always been his way of life.  His attitude was twisted from the day on which he was born and then aided by The Old School.

So the disappearance of Madeleine Mccann has accomplished something.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Agreed. I would suggest that at a very defined point in the proceedings the verdict becomes a statement of fact.

In law, a verdict is the formal finding of fact made by a jury on matters or questions submitted to the jury by a judge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdict (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdict)

Guilty beyond reasonable doubt..not all doubt..based on the opinions of the jury
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 01:01:07 PM
Guilty beyond reasonable doubt..not all doubt..based on the options of the jury
Maybe you missed the bit about the fact. It's a legal defintion and a known term cast in English Law.
Perhaps you'd like the law changed to suit your opinion, but it sucks to be wrong (not that I would know)
And don't start trying to modify Wikipedia, coz we can see that stuff.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2020, 01:02:13 PM
Criminal proceedings
In accordance with Portuguese constitutional principles (the presumption of innocence,
which provides that a defendant cannot be considered guilty until its final conviction), the
burden of proof lies on the public prosecutor, either in proving beyond reasonable doubt the
defendant’s guilt in relation to certain criminal offences, or in proving that specific assets are
the proceeds of such criminal offence and, as such, must be confiscated.


http://www.raassociados.pt/media/documents/theassettracingandrecoveryreview.pdf

page 6...

looks like you are making things up...you should adjust your posts accordingly

OK, so both systems are striving to reach a verdict which is beyond reasonable doubt. The difference is that the adversarial system relies on a jury of laypersons to deliver the verdict and the inquisitorial system relies on judges.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 21, 2020, 01:03:48 PM
even the most hardened  prisoner   dont tolerate  child killers in jail its a unspoken rule in worldwide jails

The corrupt Policia Judiciaria did try a cover-up using that one ... but there are public officials in Portugal who value the truth and their integrity.
Leonor Cipriano was horrifically tortured and abused by officers under Amaral's direct command; he knew she was in the building; he donated the glass ashtrays she was forced to kneel on while being abused.
Amaral was found guilty of perjury as a result of trying to cover it all up.


Snip
Calado (the prison director) expressed her surprise for a number of facts:

a) that the judicial police did not take Cipriano to a health centre in Faro to certify that she had fallen down some stairs;

b) that the day of her interrogation was chosen during Calado's week of holidays, when she would never have allowed her to be picked up at 6 a.m. without a formal request by the judicial police; and ...

c) that judicial police officers who arrived from Lisbon to investigate the allegations of torture proposed sharing the blame between the judicial police and prison, something she refused.

Correia praised the director, describing her as "courageous" and as prizing "values" more highly than "corporate interests".

https://www.statewatch.org/news/2008/may/portugal-report-on-torture-suffered-by-leonor-cipriano/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 21, 2020, 01:05:05 PM
I agree with him. She didn't murder her daughter, she was merely an accomplice after the fact.

Well now, that's an advance and thank you for that.

So why was she convicted of Murder?  Presumably you have some evidence of this.

What did either of them do with The Body?  Amaral offers too many choices.  None of which The Investigation or The Trial actually proved.

And I am none too happy about the Indictment and Conviction of Joao Cipriano either.  He was just a small cog in the process of Amaral's obsession against Murdering Mothers.

God knows what can have happened to Amaral in his young days to so twist his attitude to women.  I almost feel sorry for him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 01:07:00 PM
Guilty beyond reasonable doubt..not all doubt..based on the options of the jury

fact an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law. Facts can however be found proven in legal proceedings where they may or may not have actually happened. Facts may also be inferred from other facts.
Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 21, 2020, 01:08:24 PM
OK, so both systems are striving to reach a verdict which is beyond reasonable doubt. The difference is that the adversarial system relies on a jury of laypersons to deliver the verdict and the inquisitorial system relies on judges.

There was a Jury in The Cipriano Case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 01:12:11 PM
OK, so both systems are striving to reach a verdict which is beyond reasonable doubt. The difference is that the adversarial system relies on a jury of laypersons to deliver the verdict and the inquisitorial system relies on judges.

I'm aware of that but you claimed ..beyond reasonable doubt.  ...Did not exist in the Portuguese system...I've shown you were wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 01:13:18 PM
Maybe you missed the bit about the fact. It's a legal defintion and a known term cast in English Law.
Perhaps you'd like the law changed to suit your opinion, but it sucks to be wrong (not that I would know)
And don't start trying to modify Wikipedia, coz we can see that stuff.

I didn't miss anything...the verdict is based on the opinion of the jurors..or of course in Portugal judges
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 01:16:18 PM
I didn't miss anything...the verdict is based on the opinion of the jurors..or of course in Portugal judges
You said a verdict could never be fact. You were wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 01:18:36 PM
fact an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law. Facts can however be found proven in legal proceedings where they may or may not have actually happened. Facts may also be inferred from other facts.
Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006

So Barry George killed Susan Dando...that's a fact according to your claim.

The legal fact established was that George was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt...that verdict is based purely on the opinion of the jurors.

It was not established as a fact that he killed Dando
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 01:19:45 PM
You said a verdict could never be fact. You were wrong.

Provide the cite to back up your claim
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 01:26:15 PM
Provide the cite to back up your claim
I just did above. Now admit it and go home.

you are wrong...they are both opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 21, 2020, 01:26:37 PM
So Barry George killed Susan Dando...that's a fact according to your claim.

The legal fact established was that George was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt...that verdict is based purely on the opinion of the jurors.

It was not established as a fact that he killed Dando
Jill
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 01:28:36 PM
So Barry George killed Susan Dando...that's a fact according to your claim.

The legal fact established was that George was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt...that verdict is based purely on the opinion of the jurors.

It was not established as a fact that he killed Dando
Susan.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 01:33:22 PM
So Barry George killed Susan Dando...that's a fact according to your claim.

The legal fact established was that George was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt...that verdict is based purely on the opinion of the jurors.

It was not established as a fact that he killed Dando
You said it was opinion, not that 'it was not established as fact'
But I like the unsubtle moonwalk.

It's a legally defined status that the verdict is fact, whether or not it necessarily physically is.
You contended that all verdicts were merely the opinion of jurors or judges - that's palpably wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 01:43:19 PM
You said it was opinion, not that 'it was not established as fact'
But I like the unsubtle moonwalk.

It's a legally defined status that the verdict is fact, whether or not it necessarily physically is.
You contended that all verdicts were merely the opinion of jurors or judges - that's palpably wrong.

You provided two definitions of a fact...


fact an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law. Facts can however be found proven in legal proceedings where they may or may not have actually happened.

a fact is something known to have happened.....a legal fact may not have happened so is therefore not a fct...or a true fact.

a verdict is the combined opinion of the Jurors.....based on their interpretation of the evidence,..it is not an established fact..it may not actually be true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 01:47:52 PM
Synonyms for verdict
Synonyms

award, call, conclusion, decision, deliverance, determination, diagnosis, judgment (or judgement), opinion, resolution
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 01:48:52 PM
verdict
noun [ C ]
UK  /ˈvɜː.dɪkt/ US  /ˈvɝː.dɪkt/
 
C2
an opinion or decision made after judging the facts that are given, especially one made at the end of a trial:
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 01:52:13 PM
Synonyms for verdict
Synonyms

award, call, conclusion, decision, deliverance, determination, diagnosis, judgment (or judgement), opinion, resolution
No, that's not the legal definition. A synonym of the informal use of the word 'verdict' in a non legal setting may well be 'opinion', as you've amply demonstrated, but then you also amply demonstrated this informal usage may also have a synonym of 'call', which is equally irrelevant.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 01:53:07 PM
verdict
noun [ C ]
UK  /ˈvɜː.dɪkt/ US  /ˈvɝː.dɪkt/
 
C2
an opinion or decision made after judging the facts that are given, especially one made at the end of a trial:
I refer you to my answer above, quoting the correct Collins Legal Dictionary.

fact an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law. Facts can however be found proven in legal proceedings where they may or may not have actually happened. Facts may also be inferred from other facts.
Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 01:57:54 PM
I refer you to my answer above, quoting the correct Collins Legal Dictionary.

fact an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law. Facts can however be found proven in legal proceedings where they may or may not have actually happened. Facts may also be inferred from other facts.
Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006


Each juror gives his opinion on the guilt of the accused....show me the fault in that statement
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: puglove on August 21, 2020, 02:00:21 PM
Susan.

Blimey, this is confusing.....did Susan George kill Barry Dando?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 02:05:52 PM

Each juror gives his opinion on the guilt of the accused....show me the fault in that statement

That statement is a far cry from this one:

It is an opinion based on the evidence...what else can it be. That's exactly why there are miscarriages of justice.

what else can it possibly be apart from an opinion

The verdict is a legal fact. How that 'fact' is derived is not what's being discussed - and I think you know the distinction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 21, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
Blimey, this is confusing.....did Susan George kill Barry Dando?
No Jill Gascoigne killed Ashley Banjo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 02:08:03 PM
That statement is a far cry from this one:

The verdict is a legal fact. How that 'fact' is derived is not what's being discussed - and I think you know the distinction.

A legal fact is not a fact as we know it...a legal fact may not be true so its not a fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2020, 02:16:24 PM
A legal fact is not a fact as we know it...a legal fact may not be true so its not a fact

As in the proven facts in the trial of Gonzalo Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 02:18:01 PM
As in the proven facts in the trial of Gonzalo Amaral.

my thought exactly.....legal proven facts it seems may not be facts at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 21, 2020, 02:20:40 PM
When is a fact not a fact?  When it is a legal fact!  Glad that’s sorted anyway.  I love these semantic ding-dongs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 21, 2020, 02:21:52 PM
When is a fact not a fact?  When it is a legal fact!  Glad that’s sorted anyway.  I love these semantic ding-dongs.

Seems a legal fact is more an opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2020, 01:30:16 PM
It is an opinion based on the evidence...what else can it be. That's exactly why there are miscarriages of justice.

what else can it possibly be apart from an opinion

Ah, so it is only opinion that GA could be wrong ...not that he is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 22, 2020, 01:34:54 PM
Ah, so it is only opinion that GA could be wrong ...not that he is.

I don't think the Loch Ness monster exists...but i can't prove it.

amarals theory wasnt supported by enough evidence to charge or try the McCanns...so the verdict is not guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2020, 01:56:22 PM
I don't think the Loch Ness monster exists...but i can't prove it.

amarals theory wasnt supported by enough evidence to charge or try the McCanns...so the verdict is not guilty

Well good to see you said not enough...and not no or nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 22, 2020, 02:15:40 PM
Well good to see you said not enough...and not no or nothing.

When people are innocent theres usually not enough evidence to charge....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2020, 02:41:07 PM
When people are innocent theres usually not enough evidence to charge....

Doesnt alter the fact the mccs could still be involved IMO.




- To go back to our conclusions, I am convinced that those who would like to refute them would have a hard time doing so.

- That's certain, since they rest on the facts, the clues and the concrete evidence.

A DISAPPEARANCE, A WINDOW AND A BODY

It is now important to present a summary of this case, based on our deductions: reject what is false, throw out what we can't show with sufficient certainty and validate that which can be proven.

1. The theory of abduction was defended from the start by Maddie's parents.

2. In their group, only the McCanns state that they saw the bedroom window open. The others cannot confirm it since they arrived at the apartment after the alert was raised.

3. The only person to have seen that window open with the shutters raised is Amy, one of the play workers from the children's centre of the Ocean Club. She made that observation at around 10.20/1030pm, which means well after the alert - which doesn't exclude that the window could have been closed at the time of the criminal act.

4. The witness statements raise a great number of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions. Jane Tanner's witness statement in favour of the theory of abduction is probably false: little by little it has lost all credibility because of successive modifications introduced by Jane, modifications that have ended up invalidating it.

5. The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found.

The conclusions my team and I have arrived at are the following:

1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;

2. There was simulation of abduction.

3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their daughter's body.

4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 22, 2020, 02:48:15 PM
Doesnt alter the fact the mccs could still be involved IMO.




- To go back to our conclusions, I am convinced that those who would like to refute them would have a hard time doing so.

- That's certain, since they rest on the facts, the clues and the concrete evidence.

A DISAPPEARANCE, A WINDOW AND A BODY

It is now important to present a summary of this case, based on our deductions: reject what is false, throw out what we can't show with sufficient certainty and validate that which can be proven.

1. The theory of abduction was defended from the start by Maddie's parents.

2. In their group, only the McCanns state that they saw the bedroom window open. The others cannot confirm it since they arrived at the apartment after the alert was raised.

3. The only person to have seen that window open with the shutters raised is Amy, one of the play workers from the children's centre of the Ocean Club. She made that observation at around 10.20/1030pm, which means well after the alert - which doesn't exclude that the window could have been closed at the time of the criminal act.

4. The witness statements raise a great number of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions. Jane Tanner's witness statement in favour of the theory of abduction is probably false: little by little it has lost all credibility because of successive modifications introduced by Jane, modifications that have ended up invalidating it.

5. The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found.

The conclusions my team and I have arrived at are the following:

1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;

2. There was simulation of abduction.

3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their daughter's body.

4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;

do you not realise the line in red is total BS......
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 22, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
Doesnt alter the fact the mccs could still be involved IMO.




- To go back to our conclusions, I am convinced that those who would like to refute them would have a hard time doing so.  LOL

- That's certain, since they rest on the facts, the clues and the concrete evidence.  LOL

A DISAPPEARANCE, A WINDOW AND A BODY

It is now important to present a summary of this case, based on our deductions: reject what is false, throw out what we can't show with sufficient certainty and validate that which can be proven.

1. The theory of abduction was defended from the start by Maddie's parents.

2. In their group, only the McCanns state that they saw the bedroom window open. The others cannot confirm it since they arrived at the apartment after the alert was raised.

3. The only person to have seen that window open with the shutters raised is Amy, one of the play workers from the children's centre of the Ocean Club. She made that observation at around 10.20/1030pm, which means well after the alert - which doesn't exclude that the window could have been closed at the time of the criminal act.

4. The witness statements raise a great number of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions. Jane Tanner's witness statement in favour of the theory of abduction is probably false: little by little it has lost all credibility because of successive modifications introduced by Jane, modifications that have ended up invalidating it.

5. The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found. LOL

The conclusions my team and I have arrived at are the following:

1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;

2. There was simulation of abduction.

3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their daughter's body.

4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;

The reoprt is laughable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 22, 2020, 03:13:48 PM
The reoprt is laughable

So is the McCann's story of abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 22, 2020, 03:17:29 PM
So is the McCann's story of abduction.
  That isnt what the investigators think and that's what's important
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 22, 2020, 04:34:11 PM
  That isnt what the investigators think and that's what's important

Well kmcc wasnt bothered what the investigation thought ..when not answering the questions.

You think it all BS lol ....but it isnt.

The book was scrutinized by the mcs Lawyer I D...nothing was found to be libel. thats why he won.

The mccs were not cleared of any involvement.

You can go round in circles defending the mccs it seems too me like an obsession ..or ulteriour motive.

Plus its only a biased opinion whatever is posted. regarding mccs

I believe your credibility went down a bit IMO when you were cheering on what seemed to be a troll one here.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 22, 2020, 04:36:57 PM
Well kmcc wasnt bothered what the investigation thought ..when not answering the questions.

You think it all BS lol ....but it isnt.

The book was scrutinized by the mcs Lawyer I D...nothing was found to be libel. thats why he won.

The mccs were not cleared of any involvement.

You can go round in circles defending the mccs it seems too me like an obsession ..or ulteriour motive.

Plus its only a biased opinion whatever is posted. regarding mccs

I believe your credibility went down a bit IMO when you were cheering on what seemed to be a troll one here.

I know the point I raised is provable BS...it also proves the PJ were inept and accusing the Mccanns based on false information...none of that is opinion..its all fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2020, 05:02:29 PM
Doesnt alter the fact the mccs could still be involved IMO.




- To go back to our conclusions, I am convinced that those who would like to refute them would have a hard time doing so.

- That's certain, since they rest on the facts, the clues and the concrete evidence.

A DISAPPEARANCE, A WINDOW AND A BODY

It is now important to present a summary of this case, based on our deductions: reject what is false, throw out what we can't show with sufficient certainty and validate that which can be proven.

1. The theory of abduction was defended from the start by Maddie's parents.

2. In their group, only the McCanns state that they saw the bedroom window open. The others cannot confirm it since they arrived at the apartment after the alert was raised.

3. The only person to have seen that window open with the shutters raised is Amy, one of the play workers from the children's centre of the Ocean Club. She made that observation at around 10.20/1030pm, which means well after the alert - which doesn't exclude that the window could have been closed at the time of the criminal act.

4. The witness statements raise a great number of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions. Jane Tanner's witness statement in favour of the theory of abduction is probably false: little by little it has lost all credibility because of successive modifications introduced by Jane, modifications that have ended up invalidating it.

5. The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found.

The conclusions my team and I have arrived at are the following:

1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;

2. There was simulation of abduction.

3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their daughter's body.

4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;

You obviously think the word of a convicted perjurer (Amaral) and a convicted torturer (Tavares de Almeida) have some relevance particularly as all their conclusions were overturned in the Policia Judiciaria final report.

In fact Almeida based his conclusions as did Amaral on very flawed opinion ...
Snip
Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida said he believed Madeleine died in her family's apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on the day she went missing in May 2007.

He told the court the main evidence for this was the findings of British police sniffer dogs sent to Portugal to examine the flat.

The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, challenged this claim, arguing the sniffer dog results did not constitute proof.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-faked-abduction-senior-policeman-claims-1992972
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2020, 05:07:24 PM
Well kmcc wasnt bothered what the investigation thought ..when not answering the questions.

You think it all BS lol ....but it isnt.

The book was scrutinized by the mcs Lawyer I D...nothing was found to be libel. thats why he won.

The mccs were not cleared of any involvement.

You can go round in circles defending the mccs it seems too me like an obsession ..or ulteriour motive.

Plus its only a biased opinion whatever is posted. regarding mccs

I believe your credibility went down a bit IMO when you were cheering on what seemed to be a troll one here.

Is there any chance you might consider toning your language down a bit when posting and also to pretend you have a modicum of respect for fellow members when posting.
Good manners cost nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 22, 2020, 05:17:21 PM
So is the McCann's story of abduction.
Which bits of the story do you laugh at and why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2020, 08:34:32 AM
Is there any chance you might consider toning your language down a bit when posting and also to pretend you have a modicum of respect for fellow members when posting.
Good manners cost nothing.

Oh dear seems I have hit a raw nerve somewhere with you.

Your a poster Im a poster=... dont you tell me what to do.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2020, 08:37:07 AM
I know the point I raised is provable BS...it also proves the PJ were inept and accusing the Mccanns based on false information...none of that is opinion..its all fact

Prove it then
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 08:39:52 AM
Prove it then

5. The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found.

that statement is false...there is absolutely no confirmation of a body in 5a

Almeida's interim report and it's conclusions are based on a falsehood

Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida said he believed Madeleine died in her family's apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on the day she went missing in May 2007.

He told the court the main evidence for this was the findings of British police sniffer dogs sent to Portugal to examine the flat.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 23, 2020, 08:54:04 AM
5. The body, the existence of which has been confirmed by the EVRD and CSI dogs but also by the results of the preliminary laboratory analyses, cannot be found.

that statement is false...there is absolutely no confirmation of a body in 5a

Almeida's interim report and it's conclusions are based on a falsehood

Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida said he believed Madeleine died in her family's apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on the day she went missing in May 2007.

He told the court the main evidence for this was the findings of British police sniffer dogs sent to Portugal to examine the flat.


From the Judgement against Amaral which he went onto successfully appeal against.

PROVED FACTS

Taking into account the matter considered undisputed in the selection of facts and the decision handed down in due course after producing the matter of evidence and discussing the case, the following facts are demonstrated :]/b]

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 23, 2020, 08:57:02 AM
From the Judgement against Amaral which he went onto successfully appeal against.

PROVED FACTS

Taking into account the matter considered undisputed in the selection of facts and the decision handed down in due course after producing the matter of evidence and discussing the case, the following facts are demonstrated :]/b]

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

FGS, roll eyes.  We have established that there are true facts and there are legal facts.  Legal facts are not necessarily true facts.  Innit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 23, 2020, 08:58:35 AM
FGS, roll eyes.

Could be Wolters hard evidence the girl is dead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 08:58:47 AM
From the Judgement against Amaral which he went onto successfully appeal against.

PROVED FACTS

Taking into account the matter considered undisputed in the selection of facts and the decision handed down in due course after producing the matter of evidence and discussing the case, the following facts are demonstrated :]/b]

6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].


Are you saying that a body was confirmed by the dogs in 5a...it wasnt fact. it seems the PJ and the whole justice system made a complete cock up of the investigation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 09:00:17 AM
Could be Wolters hard evidence the girl is dead.

I find it hard to believe any sensible person thinks that. As has been explained the dog alerts if correct would rule CB out. Can you not understand that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 23, 2020, 09:32:41 AM
I find it hard to believe any sensible person thinks that. As has been explained the dog alerts if correct would rule CB out. Can you not understand that
My guess is - no.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 09:42:45 AM
My guess is - no.

I think its clear that some posters...like the Pj...just dont understand the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 23, 2020, 09:47:52 AM
I think its clear that some posters...like the Pj...just dont understand the evidence
I never cease to be amazed by the absence of logical thought on display here by certain members, even those who appear quite articulate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 09:52:41 AM
I never cease to be amazed by the absence of logical thought on display here by certain members, even those who appear quite articulate.

The PJ provided absolute proof they didnt understand the evidence.....I find it hard to understand that some posters cant see that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2020, 10:43:03 AM
I think its clear that some posters...like the Pj...just dont understand the evidence

You try and make it as fact they found nothing ....but the fact is they did.

Why do you think the mccs were not cleared of any involvement ...if nothing was found.

What ever is in the book is not libel.

The mccs cared more for there reputation ...it seems not it harming the search for Maddie..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 10:46:09 AM
You try and make it as fact they found nothing ....but the fact is they did.

Why do you think the mccs were not cleared of any involvement ...if nothing was found.

What ever is in the book is not libel.

The mccs cared more for there reputation ...it seems not it harming the search for Maddie..
The statement made by the PJ was false..the alerts did not confirm a body. I've proved the PJ didn't understand the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 23, 2020, 10:52:13 AM
You try and make it as fact they found nothing ....but the fact is they did.

Why do you think the mccs were not cleared of any involvement ...if nothing was found.

What ever is in the book is not libel.

The mccs cared more for there reputation ...it seems not it harming the search for Maddie..
What did they find actually?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2020, 10:53:03 AM
The statement made by the PJ was false..the alerts did not confirm a body. I've proved the PJ didn't understand the evidence

So you prove they found nothing
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 10:57:46 AM
So you prove they found nothing

I have proved the PJ did not understand the evidence

It's a fact you can't accept
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 11:04:31 AM
Not only the PJ did not understand the evidence...the Portuguese court didn't either..what a total shambles
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 23, 2020, 11:10:26 AM
You try and make it as fact they found nothing ....but the fact is they did.

Why do you think the mccs were not cleared of any involvement ...if nothing was found.

What ever is in the book is not libel.

The mccs cared more for there reputation ...it seems not it harming the search for Maddie..


The McCann's cared that Amaral had pronounced Madeleine dead with no proof what so ever.   That meant no one was searching for her.

If the McCann's are guilty and there was no abduction how do you account for the fact that three Police forces are searching for an abductor?

You need to face facts the McCann's are innocent.   The dogs did not confirm a body was in 5a and neither did the forensic results.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2020, 11:11:27 AM
Not only the PJ did not understand the evidence...the Portuguese court didn't either..what a total shambles

What is a shambles is you continually defending the undefendable.

The PJ was part of the investigation I would say that gives them a headstart on you the armchair detective.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 23, 2020, 11:12:16 AM

The McCann's cared that Amaral had pronounced Madeleine dead with no proof what so ever.   That meant no one was searching for her.

If the McCann's are guilty and there was no abduction how do you account for the fact that three Police forces are searching for an abductor?

You need to face facts the McCann's are innocent.   The dogs did not confirm a body was in 5a and neither did the forensic results.

Do you think with Wolters now declaring Madeleine dead the search has ground to a halt?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 23, 2020, 11:15:48 AM
Well kmcc wasnt bothered what the investigation thought ..when not answering the questions.

You think it all BS lol ....but it isnt.

The book was scrutinized by the mcs Lawyer I D...nothing was found to be libel. thats why he won.

The mccs were not cleared of any involvement.

You can go round in circles defending the mccs it seems too me like an obsession ..or ulteriour motive.

Plus its only a biased opinion whatever is posted. regarding mccs

I believe your credibility went down a bit IMO when you were cheering on what seemed to be a troll one here.


The McCann's lawyers found it libellous and if the McCann's took Amaral to court in this country his book would be found to be libellous.

I think you are obsessed with standing up for a Police officer who clearly didn't understand the forensic results,  even accused the Lab of incompetence to cover up his lack of understanding and lied in his book.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 23, 2020, 11:17:09 AM
Do you think with Wolters now declaring Madeleine dead the search has ground to a halt?

I believe OG is working along side the German Police.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 23, 2020, 11:18:59 AM
What is a shambles is you continually defending the undefendable.

The PJ was part of the investigation I would say that gives them a headstart on you the armchair detective.

The PJ are working along side OG and the German Police.   All Amaral can do at the moment is try to stand by his theory.  Unfortunately,  it is falling on deaf ears by all accounts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2020, 11:19:29 AM

The McCann's cared that Amaral had pronounced Madeleine dead with no proof what so ever.   That meant no one was searching for her.

If the McCann's are guilty and there was no abduction how do you account for the fact that three Police forces are searching for an abductor?

You need to face facts the McCann's are innocent.   The dogs did not confirm a body was in 5a and neither did the forensic results.

There is no proof ..non whatsoever of an abduction ...what does that tell you.

How many suspects have they checked out now ...how many more do they need to realize they are never going to find an abductor.

I don't care how many police force's are looking ...you don't know that they are.

IMO there was no abduction.

Could give u an idea

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=75.0
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 23, 2020, 11:22:31 AM
There is no proof ..non whatsoever of an abduction ...what does that tell you.

How many suspects have they checked out now ...how many more do they need to realize they are never going to find an abductor.

I don't care how many police force's are looking ...you don't know that they are.

IMO there was no abduction.

Could give u an idea

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=75.0
"IMO there was no moon landing - I don't care how many international agencies say there were"
"IMO no planes flew into the Twin Towers - I don't care how many videos there are showing it happen"
"IMO the events at Sandy Hook were fabricated - I don't care how many police and family members say otherwise"
A typical conspiracy theorist's mantra - dismiss all the evidence and cling to the belief for all its worth.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 11:30:31 AM
What is a shambles is you continually defending the undefendable.

The PJ was part of the investigation I would say that gives them a headstart on you the armchair detective.

I've proved beyond any doubt they didn't understand the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 23, 2020, 11:36:01 AM
There is no proof ..non whatsoever of an abduction ...what does that tell you.

How many suspects have they checked out now ...how many more do they need to realize they are never going to find an abductor.

I don't care how many police force's are looking ...you don't know that they are.

IMO there was no abduction.

Could give u an idea

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=75.0

You can repeat no abduction until you are blue in the face,   the Police are looking for an abductor and that's that.

If the PJ still thought the McCann's guilty,  why haven't they demanded they go back to Portugal to be questioned again?   They have done nothing for thirteen years and now they are working with OG and the German Police what does that tell you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 23, 2020, 12:13:41 PM
I believe OG is working along side the German Police.

Ones a murder inquiry the other is a missing persons case, how does working alongside each other work?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2020, 12:24:12 PM
You can repeat no abduction until you are blue in the face,   the Police are looking for an abductor and that's that.

If the PJ still thought the McCann's guilty,  why haven't they demanded they go back to Portugal to be questioned again?   They have done nothing for thirteen years and now they are working with OG and the German Police what does that tell you?

Oh come off it ...you know why they didnt go back.

you would have thought the mccs themselves would have wanted a reconstruction.

To know where everyone was even the rest of the group. IMO

Look what happened in there own documentry ...they couldnt agree about a vital time...[tanner]

OG doesn't know what is going on with the germans...seems they are working on there own ..for there own reasons.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 12:24:43 PM
Ones a murder inquiry the other is a missing persons case, how does working alongside each other work?

It's quite easy to understand if you have an open mind

The Germans have strong evidence of death which they haven't shared with Grange..

Until they do it's a missing persons enquiry though I would say bothe Grange and the McCanns think Maddie us dead
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 23, 2020, 12:29:10 PM
I've proved beyond any doubt they didn't understand the evidence

Maybe to yourself...or a couple more on here.

That means nothing ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 23, 2020, 12:32:13 PM
Maybe to yourself...or a couple more on here.

That means nothing ...
So in your opinion was Amaral correct to state as fact that Madeleine died in the apartment?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 12:37:58 PM
Maybe to yourself...or a couple more on here.

That means nothing ...
No I proved beyond doubt as a fact that the PJ did not understand the evidence....that is fact...not opinion.

You can't understand that which  is your problem not mine
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 12:45:11 PM
So in your opinion was Amaral correct to state as fact that Madeleine died in the apartment?
What Amara didn't understand which shows him to be a bit of a fool is that the alert meant it was possible Maddie died in the apartment not that she did.
If I understand that why can't a supposedly experienced policeman
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 23, 2020, 12:54:12 PM
What Amara didn't understand which shows him to be a bit of a fool is that the alert meant it was possible Maddie died in the apartment not that she did.
If I understand that why can't a supposedly experienced policeman
It is critical to the "McCanns dunnit" position - Madeleine had to have died in the apartment therefore the dog alerts have to be absolute, unequivocal proof - nothing else can be countenanced. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2020, 01:02:01 PM
What Amara didn't understand which shows him to be a bit of a fool is that the alert meant it was possible Maddie died in the apartment not that she did.
If I understand that why can't a supposedly experienced policeman

Amaral wanted and needed to believe it in my opinion.  But one can hardly blame him when bearing in mind that a high ranking BRITISH trained officer also had his head turned by his belief in the hype surrounding 'enhanced' dogs causing the fiasco which was Haute de la Garenne as exemplified by JAR6.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2020, 01:16:21 PM
What is a shambles is you continually defending the undefendable.

The PJ was part of the investigation I would say that gives them a headstart on you the armchair detective.

The problem as I see it was that the only thing that was given a head start was the perpetrator.  Amaral and his investigation squandered the golden hours without which there was little if any hope of recovering Madeleine speedily if at all.

If you think Amaral's Policia Judiciaria had a headstart on armchair detectives ... what is your explanation for the real detectives of Rebelo's Policia Judiciaria discarding the conclusions Amaral reached and adopting their own?
Leading to the rescinding of the decision to make Kate and Gerry McCann and Robert Murat arguidos.

Subsequent events have certainly proved that decision to have been the correct one
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2020, 01:22:19 PM
There is no proof ..non whatsoever of an abduction ...what does that tell you.

How many suspects have they checked out now ...how many more do they need to realize they are never going to find an abductor.

I don't care how many police force's are looking ...you don't know that they are.

IMO there was no abduction.

Could give u an idea

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=75.0

Sigh ... so the German police ~ the British police and the Portuguese police are all looking for an abductor and have been for many years.  But Kizzy knows better.

Good luck with that one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 23, 2020, 01:32:10 PM
What Amara didn't understand which shows him to be a bit of a fool is that the alert meant it was possible Maddie died in the apartment not that she did.
If I understand that why can't a supposedly experienced policeman

Equally it's possible that Madeleine McCann was abducted but it's not a certainty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2020, 01:32:53 PM
"IMO there was no moon landing - I don't care how many international agencies say there were"
"IMO no planes flew into the Twin Towers - I don't care how many videos there are showing it happen"
"IMO the events at Sandy Hook were fabricated - I don't care how many police and family members say otherwise"
A typical conspiracy theorist's mantra - dismiss all the evidence and cling to the belief for all its worth.

As someone ~ I forget who ~ says in her signature line ~ "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." Which in my opinion is perfectly summed up in your post as applicable to Amaral and his 'poison Calpol' and 'fabricated abduction' delusions ... to name but two of many.
Amaral created the legend.  Then Amaral printed the legend. Now no less than three police forces and possibly more are working to debunk the legend.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 01:46:59 PM
Equally it's possible that Madeleine McCann was abducted but it's not a certainty.

the point is amaral did not understand the evidence...that is a proven fact...do you accept that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 23, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
It is critical to the "McCanns dunnit" position - Madeleine had to have died in the apartment therefore the dog alerts have to be absolute, unequivocal proof - nothing else can be countenanced.

"There is always the potential that she didn't leave the apartment alive. What is important for us to do is consider all the options." OG
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 07:43:52 PM
"There is always the potential that she didn't leave the apartment alive. What is important for us to do is consider all the options." OG

absolutely..but amaral and his team didnt undersatnd that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 23, 2020, 07:46:45 PM
"There is always the potential that she didn't leave the apartment alive. What is important for us to do is consider all the options." OG
Do you understand what they are saying?  That the dog alerts do not prove Madeleine died in the apartment as Amaral claimed?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 23, 2020, 07:51:04 PM
the point is amaral did not understand the evidence...that is a proven fact...do you accept that

He understood that there was no evidence of abduction despite some people trying to convince him that it had occurred.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 23, 2020, 07:58:32 PM
He understood that there was no evidence of abduction despite some people trying to convince him that it had occurred.
It’s a lie to claim that anyone tried to convince Amaral that Madeleine was abducted, why do you persist with this fabrication?  The parents believed Madeleine had been abducted - do you think they should have pretended otherwise or not voiced their opinion?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on August 23, 2020, 08:01:08 PM
He understood that there was no evidence of abduction despite some people trying to convince him that it had occurred.
If someone did not physically remove Madeleine from the apartment, how do Amaral and you explain what happened on that evening?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 08:05:29 PM
He understood that there was no evidence of abduction despite some people trying to convince him that it had occurred.

I see you are avoiding the point I have made that  amaral and his team didnt understand the relevance of the alerts..
there is no evidence of an accident and no evidence of a cover up
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2020, 08:29:47 PM
I see you are avoiding the point I have made that  amaral and his team didnt understand the relevance of the alerts..
there is no evidence of an accident and no evidence of a cover up

But there is evidence of an abduction ... which is why in my opinion Amaral left no stone unturned with regard to rubbishing the open window since day one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 23, 2020, 09:03:37 PM
But there is evidence of an abduction ... which is why in my opinion Amaral left no stone unturned with regard to rubbishing the open window since day one.


When i listened to the podcasts by MS he said Amaral confirmed the shutters could not be opened from the outside...just another thing he got wrong...the mans a walking encylopedia of disinformation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 24, 2020, 07:50:27 AM
If someone did not physically remove Madeleine from the apartment, how do Amaral and you explain what happened on that evening?

I'm sure you know how Amaral explained what happened. I don't know what happened, but I find the stranger abduction theory unconvincing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 24, 2020, 08:00:58 AM
I'm sure you know how Amaral explained what happened. I don't know what happened, but I find the stranger abduction theory unconvincing.
Why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 24, 2020, 08:35:15 AM
I'm sure you know how Amaral explained what happened. I don't know what happened, but I find the stranger abduction theory unconvincing.

I find Amarals explanation impossible. Sedation with Calpol then taking of a sofa and instant death... impossible

Stranger abductions are rare but possible and now we have s suspect that perfectly fits the bill
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 24, 2020, 09:01:38 AM
Why?

Because I find those espousing it unconvincing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 24, 2020, 09:04:49 AM
Because I find those espousing it unconvincing.

But of course it doesnt matter what anyone here thinks...whats important is what the current investigation think....and they think a stranger abduction is quite possible.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 24, 2020, 09:35:40 AM
But of course it doesnt matter what anyone here thinks...whats important is what the current investigation think....and they think a stranger abduction is quite possible.

They're just lacking in evidence it actually happened.

No big deal I'm sure, waste another £12 million of tax payers money on it,  something might come up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2020, 10:07:50 AM
They're just lacking in evidence it actually happened.

No big deal I'm sure, waste another £12 million of tax payers money on it,  something might come up.

I believe Amaral criticised the evidence gathering during the small hours of the fourth and that was prior to Irene Trovao demonstrating to the whole world exactly how not to dress to do it.
Added to allowing the cleaners to remove and wash Madeleine's bedding quite an extraordinary method of preserving the evidence I would have thought.

It goes without saying that the preservation of a crime scene is entirely the responsibility of the police.  Just as it goes without saying allowing the cleaners in to clean doesn't help matters either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 24, 2020, 10:21:55 AM
I believe Amaral criticised the evidence gathering during the small hours of the fourth and that was prior to Irene Trovao demonstrating to the whole world exactly how not to dress to do it.
Added to allowing the cleaners to remove and wash Madeleine's bedding quite an extraordinary method of preserving the evidence I would have thought.

It goes without saying that the preservation of a crime scene is entirely the responsibility of the police.  Just as it goes without saying allowing the cleaners in to clean doesn't help matters either.

We are asked to believe this was an pre planned abduction, with watchers & get away drivers, who meticulously planned their operation with their insider knowledge, like that elusive note in reception.

I very much doubt an organised criminal is going to be hanging around the apartment shedding their dna all over Maddie's bed clothes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2020, 10:33:38 AM
We are asked to believe this was an pre planned abduction, with watchers & get away drivers, who meticulously planned their operation with their insider knowledge, like that elusive note in reception.

I very much doubt an organised criminal is going to be hanging around the apartment shedding their dna all over Maddie's bed clothes.

If you are referring to Brueckner as an 'organised criminal' I doubt very much if you have any idea what he was capable of doing but the possibility that the Judicial Police might have had an inkling was flagged up by Amaral who tells us the police went knocking on his door.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 24, 2020, 10:43:36 AM
If you are referring to Brueckner as an 'organised criminal' I doubt very much if you have any idea what he was capable of doing but the possibility that the Judicial Police might have had an inkling was flagged up by Amaral who tells us the police went knocking on his door.

No, I wasn't referring to Brueckner, I'm yet to see any evidence of his involvement, or anyone's for that matter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 24, 2020, 11:01:24 AM
But of course it doesnt matter what anyone here thinks...whats important is what the current investigation think....and they think a stranger abduction is quite possible.

Which current investigation? There are three and only one of them has jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on August 24, 2020, 11:10:30 AM
Which current investigation? There are three and only one of them has jurisdiction.

plus im sure the coronavirus has slowed  everything  down the world has alot to deal with right now
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 24, 2020, 11:10:44 AM
Which current investigation? There are three and only one of them has jurisdiction.

No theres only one investigation ..Portugal with support from Uk and Germany....From what I understand after the rape trial all three forces  have jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 24, 2020, 12:39:19 PM
No theres only one investigation ..Portugal with support from Uk and Germany....From what I understand after the rape trial all three forces  have jurisdiction.

It wasn't support for the Portuguese investigation when Operation Grange asked the Portuguese to question the 'burglars' that the PJ had no interest in. That, imo, was OG asking the PJ to support their investigations.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 24, 2020, 12:52:51 PM
It wasn't support for the Portuguese investigation when Operation Grange asked the Portuguese to question the 'burglars' that the PJ had no interest in. That, imo, was OG asking the PJ to support their investigations.

that isnt really importance...on paper its  a portuguese investigation....the portuguese dont seem to be doing anything
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 24, 2020, 01:07:30 PM
I believe Amaral criticised the evidence gathering during the small hours of the fourth and that was prior to Irene Trovao demonstrating to the whole world exactly how not to dress to do it.
Added to allowing the cleaners to remove and wash Madeleine's bedding quite an extraordinary method of preserving the evidence I would have thought.

It goes without saying that the preservation of a crime scene is entirely the responsibility of the police.  Just as it goes without saying allowing the cleaners in to clean doesn't help matters either.

Plus allowing the apartment to be rented out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2020, 01:09:30 PM
that isnt really importance...on paper its  a portuguese investigation....the portuguese dont seem to be doing anything

Neither do SY
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 24, 2020, 01:17:17 PM
They're just lacking in evidence it actually happened.

No big deal I'm sure, waste another £12 million of tax payers money on it,  something might come up.

How do you know what the money has been spent on?   OG said they wouldn't be giving a running commentary,  so how would you or I know anything?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2020, 01:17:35 PM
No theres only one investigation ..Portugal with support from Uk and Germany....From what I understand after the rape trial all three forces  have jurisdiction.

I don't think there can be the slightest doubt about co-operation between these three police forces and who knows what other agencies may be involved.  In my opinion they are acting as far as is possible as one on Madeleine's investigation.

The only fly in the ointment appears to be Amaral's less than helpful recent interjections ... but at least he now seems to be keeping quiet for the time being.  I wonder if it is slowly dawning on him that the comparisons between the path in which he directed his investigation is being compared with a far more realistic one being followed now.  But which was there in the files right from the beginning in one of the first pieces of real evidence recorded and therefore one of the first pieces of evidence Amaral's investigation ignored.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 24, 2020, 01:20:47 PM
Because I find those espousing it unconvincing.
That's a very unconvincing reason.  IMO.  How about putting personalities and your own personal prejudices to one side and then tell me why abduction is not a very convincing theory. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 24, 2020, 01:22:01 PM
Neither do SY

The Police don't tell the public what they are doing.   Do you think they are going to say what their next move is?  Amaral was out of order giving away information about CB last year.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 24, 2020, 01:24:34 PM
We are asked to believe this was an pre planned abduction, with watchers & get away drivers, who meticulously planned their operation with their insider knowledge, like that elusive note in reception.

I very much doubt an organised criminal is going to be hanging around the apartment shedding their dna all over Maddie's bed clothes.

Yet it has been said CB had a friend working at the Ocean club who tipped him off as to which apartment to burgle.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
The Police don't tell the public what they are doing.   Do you think they are going to say what their next move is?  Amaral was out of order giving away information about CB last year.

Why
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 24, 2020, 01:26:53 PM
Why

Obviously because OG were trying to keep the investigation secret,  that is the usual procedure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2020, 01:56:35 PM
Obviously because OG were trying to keep the investigation secret,  that is the usual procedure.

Obviously because OG were trying to keep the investigation secret,


Lol
No thats only your opinion ...its a fact the germans wasnt trying to keep it a secret
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2020, 02:02:48 PM

Obviously because OG were trying to keep the investigation secret,


Lol
No thats only your opinion ...its a fact the germans wasnt trying to keep it a secret

Only when Brueckner's cover was blown prematurely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 24, 2020, 02:16:00 PM
Only when Brueckner's cover was blown prematurely.

This is obviously why the Germans will not share the evidence they have. ..too many big mouths in Portugal
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2020, 02:22:02 PM
This is obviously why the Germans will not share the evidence they have. ..too many big mouths in Portugal

Or your grasping at straws ...seems they have what they want so probably thats the end of that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 24, 2020, 02:53:03 PM
Or your grasping at straws ...seems they have what they want so probably thats the end of that.

It's quite possible CB will be charged in the coming months.....a lot of questions will then be answerred
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2020, 04:59:01 PM
It's quite possible CB will be charged in the coming months.....a lot of questions will then be answerred

Possible......its more possible that he wont.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 24, 2020, 05:17:34 PM
Possible......its more possible that he wont.

Why is it more possible he won't?   You don't know what the German police have in connection with him but already you want him to get off,  weird.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 25, 2020, 01:28:43 PM
Why is it more possible he won't?   You don't know what the German police have in connection with him but already you want him to get off,  weird.


Why are you being so silly....you dont know what the Germans have either.

As for wanting him to get off ...that is you twisting things unless you can prove i said that...

I know didn't.......its what you posted that is weird
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 25, 2020, 01:39:28 PM

Why are you being so silly....you dont know what the Germans have either.

As for wanting him to get off ...that is you twisting things unless you can prove i said that...

I know didn't.......its what you posted that is weird

You can't deny that you said most probably he wouldn't be charged.   Why would you think that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 25, 2020, 02:06:45 PM
I think the topic was 'Goncalo Amaral' folks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 25, 2020, 06:15:41 PM
This is obviously why the Germans will not share the evidence they have. ..too many big mouths in Portugal
Do they also class SY in the same vein?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 25, 2020, 06:32:32 PM
Do they also class SY in the same vein?

It's my opinion they may well have told SY and the MCCanns
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 27, 2020, 09:43:59 AM
You can't deny that you said most probably he wouldn't be charged.   Why would you think that?

So how is most probably won't be charged a meaning for I hope he gets off that's you twisting it.

Why I think he wont be charged


Because to me he obviously isn't involved...

They are desperately trying to link CB to Maddie....there is nothing it seems credable to do that.

It looks more like GA was right when he said a scape got is going to be used.

Well seems this goat escaped....because nothing there to link him to Maddie or he is the abductor.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2020, 09:56:21 AM
So how is most probably won't be charged a meaning for I hope he gets off that's you twisting it.

Why I think he wont be charged


Because to me he obviously isn't involved...

They are desperately trying to link CB to Maddie....there is nothing it seems credable to do that.

It looks more like GA was right when he said a scape got is going to be used.

Well seems this goat escaped....because nothing there to link him to Maddie or he is the abductor.

How do you know he's not involved...I don't know for certain but I think it's quite possible...so how do you know he's not involved
What rules him out
What proves his innocence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 27, 2020, 10:07:19 AM
How do you know he's not involved...I don't know for certain but I think it's quite possible...so how do you know he's not involved
What rules him out
What proves his innocence
Does he have an alibi for the night Madeleine went missing?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2020, 10:23:54 AM
Does he have an alibi for the night Madeleine went missing?

Thats areally excellent question rob...top of the class...and something I have considered.

He could simply say who he was with on the evening of 3rd may and all this suspicion would be cleared up...simple.

It's that easy to clear his name and prove his innocence...but his lawyer said he will refuse to answer any questions...makes you think doesn't it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 27, 2020, 10:27:19 AM
How do you know he's not involved...I don't know for certain but I think it's quite possible...so how do you know he's not involved
What rules him out
What proves his innocence

Oh come on ...we are talking about CB ...the keystone pedo.

Why do you think suddenly he commits the absolute perfect crime.

If he had been stupid enough to use his own phone to ping...there would have been more evidence in 5a.

There wasn't ..0... ziltch. absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2020, 10:40:19 AM
Oh come on ...we are talking about CB ...the keystone pedo.

Why do you think suddenly he commits the absolute perfect crime.

If he had been stupid enough to use his own phone to ping...there would have been more evidence in 5a.

There wasn't ..0... ziltch. absolutely nothing.

he didnt commit the perfect crime....it wa sjust the PJ were useless...like the rape he got away with until the germans got involved...looks like the same thing happening again to me.


the germans have shown they are capable with the rape conviction
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 27, 2020, 10:42:16 AM
Thats areally excellent question rob...top of the class...and something I have considered.

He could simply say who he was with on the evening of 3rd may and all this suspicion would be cleared up...simple.

It's that easy to clear his name and prove his innocence...but his lawyer said he will refuse to answer any questions...makes you think doesn't it

He won’t answer any questions.....what like Kate ? Yes it does make you think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 27, 2020, 10:49:22 AM
he didnt commit the perfect crime....it wa sjust the PJ were useless...like the rape he got away with until the germans got involved...looks like the same thing happening again to me.


the germans have shown they are capable with the rape conviction



Nothing was found in 5a apart from kmccs fingerprints on a window seems no one saw open.

Very few commit a perfect crime..certainly not the likes of CB

 Little has been said in the British press about Amaral’s latest comments.

Nothing has been reported on his insistence that the kidnap theory is “the one where the least evidence actually exists”.

Focus in the mainstream now is that despite the media brouhaha, charges may never be brought against Christian Brueckner – for the simple reason that nothing but circumstantial evidence links him to the disappearance from Praia da Luz 13 years ago of Madeleine McCann.

Brueckner’s lawyers meantime are pushing for their client’s release from jail where he has already served ⅔ of a drug sentence.

natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2020, 12:09:24 PM
Does he have an alibi for the night Madeleine went missing?

this si a really good post by Rob...so whats CBs reason for refusing to answer any questions...according to sceptics no innocent person refuses to
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 27, 2020, 12:11:21 PM
this si a really good post by Rob...so whats CBs reason for refusing to answer any questions...according to sceptics no innocent person refuses to
He hasn't been asked any.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 27, 2020, 12:13:55 PM
He hasn't been asked any.

That would explain it. They're talking about him not to him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2020, 12:16:15 PM
He hasn't been asked any.
I'm sure they will..when they are ready
His lawyer days he won't answer any questions..
According to sceptics no innocent person would refuse
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 27, 2020, 12:17:41 PM
I'm sure they will..when they are ready
His lawyer days he won't answer any questions..
According to sceptics no innocent person would refuse
No, you said he'd refused to answer questions  - he hasn't been asked any. It also explains your question as to 'what's his excuse'? He hasn't got one. He doesn't need one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2020, 12:24:50 PM
No, you said he'd refused to answer questions  - he hasn't been asked any. It also explains your question as to 'what's his excuse'? He hasn't got one. He doesn't need one.

i never said that...read the post again
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 27, 2020, 12:26:44 PM
i never said that...read the post again

'so whats CBs reason for refusing to answer any questions'

Which part of that have I got wrong?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2020, 12:28:00 PM
'so whats CBs reason for refusing to answer any questions'

Which part of that have I got wrong?

I should have added ...according to his lawyer....i'm multitasking...doing about six othe rthisgs at the moment...just done 30 press ups
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on August 27, 2020, 12:39:49 PM
I should have added ...according to his lawyer....i'm multitasking...doing about six othe rthisgs at the moment...just done 30 press ups
So I didn't need to 'read your post again'?
30 press ups? I'm in the gym at 05.30 every day, even when it's closed. Place won't clean itself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 27, 2020, 12:44:28 PM
So I didn't need to 'read your post again'?
30 press ups? I'm in the gym at 05.30 every day, even when it's closed. Place won't clean itself.

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 27, 2020, 12:47:05 PM
I should have added ...according to his lawyer....i'm multitasking...doing about six othe rthisgs at the moment...just done 30 press ups

What did his lawyer say, exactly? Do you have a cite?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2020, 03:26:40 PM
EXCLUSIVE: Lawyer says Madeleine McCann suspect will never co-operate with police

By Ben Avery • Europe Correspondent
1:57am Aug 3, 2020


The lawyer for Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner says his client will never co-operate with police.
Speaking exclusively to 9News, Friedrich Fulscher said ... Brueckner's silence was not a sign he has something to hide, but a fundamental right.

"The prosecutors office has to prove that a suspect has committed a crime, and not the suspect prove that he hasn't," Mr Fulscher said.
"Before our client starts to co-operate with the prosecutor's office, you could order holy water as a long drink in hell."

Ben Avery spoke exclusively with Friedrich Fulscher, the lawyer of a suspect in the Madeline McCann investigation. (9News)

German prosecutors say they have evidence Madeleine McCann is dead and are confident Christian Brueckner is their man.
A phone belonging to the 43 year old career criminal was allegedly used in the vicinity of the Portugal resort where the McCanns were staying on the night the British girl disappeared.

Madeleine McCann: German police leave garden after days digging in investigation
Madeleine McCann: Portuguese police teams search wells for body of missing British girl
Madeleine McCann: German investigators wants to re-test saliva sample linked to new suspect
Mr Fulscher is yet to be presented with evidence of the phone call and says that even if it was made by Brueckner, it doesn't prove he is guilty.


"You can't say because of the fact that this cell phone was logged to this tower that he was standing near to the apartment of Madeleine McCann's disappearance," Mr Fulscher said.
"He could have been 20 kilometres away."
Mr Fulscher has accused police of staging a search at a former residence of the suspect near the German city of Hanover last week, claiming it was a ploy to sway public opinion.


Speaking exclusively to 9News, Mr Fulscher said Brueckner's silence was not a sign he has something to hide, but a fundamental right. (9News)
When asked by 9News if there was anything there to be discovered, Mr Fulscher said "nothing that is in relationship to this case".
Madeleine MccannWorldCrimeGermanyPortugalEurope
https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-investigation-lawyer-says-suspect-will-never-co-operate-with-police/dc3fb824-5933-4ff2-8f7e-08c4f09a70cc


Just a reminder ... the topic is ... Goncalo Amaral
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 27, 2020, 07:00:07 PM


Nothing was found in 5a apart from kmccs fingerprints on a window seems no one saw open.

Very few commit a perfect crime..certainly not the likes of CB

 Little has been said in the British press about Amaral’s latest comments.

Nothing has been reported on his insistence that the kidnap theory is “the one where the least evidence actually exists”.

Focus in the mainstream now is that despite the media brouhaha, charges may never be brought against Christian Brueckner – for the simple reason that nothing but circumstantial evidence links him to the disappearance from Praia da Luz 13 years ago of Madeleine McCann.

Brueckner’s lawyers meantime are pushing for their client’s release from jail where he has already served ⅔ of a drug sentence.

natasha.donn@algarveresident.com

Do you think the McCanns have committed the perfect crime then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2020, 10:25:07 AM
Just saw this from an interview with amaral a year ago..

Hypothesizing that both Maddie and the twin brothers were under Calpol, a medicine that helps them(children) fall asleep, the former inspector reinforces publicly again that they have come to the conclusion that "this would have been an accidental death" and has no doubts that the removal from the case that he was obliged "was a political issue."
 Sapo24, May 23, 2019


After 12 years has no one told him calpol is not a sedative...what an idiot
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 29, 2020, 10:39:26 AM
Just saw this from an interview with amaral a year ago..

Hypothesizing that both Maddie and the twin brothers were under Calpol, a medicine that helps them(children) fall asleep, the former inspector reinforces publicly again that they have come to the conclusion that "this would have been an accidental death" and has no doubts that the removal from the case that he was obliged "was a political issue."
 Sapo24, May 23, 2019


After 12 years has no one told him calpol is not a sedative...what an idiot

Unbelievable!! 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 29, 2020, 12:16:59 PM
Just saw this from an interview with amaral a year ago..

Hypothesizing that both Maddie and the twin brothers were under Calpol, a medicine that helps them(children) fall asleep, the former inspector reinforces publicly again that they have come to the conclusion that "this would have been an accidental death" and has no doubts that the removal from the case that he was obliged "was a political issue."
 Sapo24, May 23, 2019


After 12 years has no one told him calpol is not a sedative...what an idiot

He could have glossed it over by saying something along the lines of ... "at the time, we policemen thought ... ".  But it was never going to be "an accidental death" since Kate had affirmed in a police interview that the children had not been given Calpol on that holiday.
Don't know if anyone else agrees but I can see where that would lead.

I can see why the constant fuelling of the Calpol myth in the Portuguese papers and in the numerous interviews presided over by Amaral and members of his cohort such as Cristovao had at one time been swallowed hook, line and sinker by an audience primed to the opinion that Madeleine's parents are devils incarnate.

I have a great deal less sympathy for an audience which has escaped Amaral's persistence but which chooses to accept error as its version of 'the truth' and to continue to promote it.  Totally weird ... in my opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 29, 2020, 12:31:51 PM
Unbelievable!!

I don't think Amaral can expect the same easy ride from future interviewers that he has in the main, enjoyed over the years.

I think recent events starting with the Netflix documentary, in which he and Cristovao took part, are giving pause for thought and a closer scrutiny of his part in events as they have been portrayed.

The Portuguese aren't stupid.
Some chose to believe in a respected institution and what former high ranking members of it were forcefully saying.
Perhaps Cristovao and his feet of clay was the first chink in the armour which gave food for thought and it has all been seriously downhill for Amaral's 'theory' since then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 29, 2020, 01:53:47 PM
I don't think Amaral can expect the same easy ride from future interviewers that he has in the main, enjoyed over the years.

I think recent events starting with the Netflix documentary, in which he and Cristovao took part, are giving pause for thought and a closer scrutiny of his part in events as they have been portrayed.

The Portuguese aren't stupid.
Some chose to believe in a respected institution and what former high ranking members of it were forcefully saying.
Perhaps Cristovao and his feet of clay was the first chink in the armour which gave food for thought and it has all been seriously downhill for Amaral's 'theory' since then.

 downhill for Amaral's 'theory' since then


That is only your opinion ...his theory had its day in court and won.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2020, 02:05:36 PM

 downhill for Amaral's 'theory' since then


That is only your opinion ...his theory had its day in court and won.

his theory didnt win anything...what he won was the right to express his theory...however barmy it is

Hopefully the ECHR will correct it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 29, 2020, 02:46:56 PM
his theory didnt win anything...what he won was the right to express his theory...however barmy it is

Hopefully the ECHR will correct it


.what he won was the right to express his theory

So he won.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2020, 02:54:14 PM

.what he won was the right to express his theory

So he won.

Yes, he's still expressing away.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2020, 03:24:43 PM
Yes, he's still expressing away.

Is anyone listening?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2020, 03:25:32 PM
Yes, he's still expressing away.

I don't see that he is... He seems to have gone a little quiet
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 29, 2020, 03:51:28 PM
Is anyone listening?

He's been on tv,so some one might have.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 29, 2020, 03:53:35 PM
I don't see that he is... He seems to have gone a little quiet

You don't know that seems nothing gets published what he does and says in the UK but not elsewhere.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2020, 03:59:09 PM
You don't know that seems nothing gets published what he does and says in the UK but not elsewhere.

We can read the Portuguese  papers online... Have another go
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 29, 2020, 04:04:18 PM
We can read the Portuguese  papers online... Have another go

Don't need to at least it shows people are interested in what he has to say when he needs to say it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2020, 04:11:08 PM
Don't need to at least it shows people are interested in what he has to say when he needs to say it.

He isn't saying a lot now... He seems to have stopped promoting his theory
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 29, 2020, 04:21:12 PM
He isn't saying a lot now... He seems to have stopped promoting his theory

So has HCW

What can GA say anyway not a lot going on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 29, 2020, 04:45:17 PM
You don't know that seems nothing gets published what he does and says in the UK but not elsewhere.

From watching video interviews in particular I am becoming increasingly puzzled by the number which are no longer translated into English for our edification particularly by one who displays the banner ...

1.Everyone shall possess the right to freely express and publicise his thoughts in words, images or by any other means, as well as the right to inform others, inform himself and be informed without hindrance or discrimination 2.Exercise of the said rights shall not be hindered or limited by any type or form of censorship
Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, Article 37.º


What is it called when the only information we are permitted to access is what we are allowed to by one faction and their spokespeople who have made it their mission.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 29, 2020, 04:56:44 PM
Is anyone listening?

You and your ilk seem to be. You never stop banging on about what he’s said. Me....I think he’s yesterday’s man.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2020, 05:00:50 PM
You and your ilk seem to be. You never stop banging on about what he’s said. Me....I think he’s yesterday’s man.

Oh!
There's a few of your ilk who still see him as a latter day Moses complete with tablets of stone!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 29, 2020, 05:04:35 PM
Oh!
There's a few of your ilk who still see him as a latter day Moses complete with tablets of stone!

It’s you who appears to be obsessed by him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 29, 2020, 05:15:40 PM
From watching video interviews in particular I am becoming increasingly puzzled by the number which are no longer translated into English for our edification particularly by one who displays the banner ...

1.Everyone shall possess the right to freely express and publicise his thoughts in words, images or by any other means, as well as the right to inform others, inform himself and be informed without hindrance or discrimination 2.Exercise of the said rights shall not be hindered or limited by any type or form of censorship
Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, Article 37.º


What is it called when the only information we are permitted to access is what we are allowed to by one faction and their spokespeople who have made it their mission.

What is it called when the only information we are permitted to access is what we are allowed to by one faction and their spokespeople who have made it their mission.

You should ask the mccs that question
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2020, 05:19:55 PM
It’s you who appears to be obsessed by him.

Lol.
Weak response.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2020, 05:41:38 PM
Oh!
There's a few of your ilk who still see him as a latter day Moses complete with tablets of stone!

IYO

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2020, 05:53:22 PM
IYO

Lol.
Yes most definitely in my opinion.
Just a read back endorses that opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2020, 05:58:37 PM
What is it called when the only information we are permitted to access is what we are allowed to by one faction and their spokespeople who have made it their mission.

You should ask the mccs that question

God..?it's the power of the McCanns theory again!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2020, 06:17:10 PM
God..?it's the power of the McCanns theory again!

Carter-Ruck. It was them who threatened the media, bloggers and anyone else who pointed out that other theories were possible.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 29, 2020, 06:25:52 PM
Carter-Ruck. It was them who threatened the media, bloggers and anyone else who pointed out that other theories were possible.

Did they threaten Operation Grange or the present German Investigation?
Has anyone on here been threatened?
Who do you know was threatened?
Which bloggers were threatened?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 29, 2020, 06:36:49 PM
Did they threaten Operation Grange or the present German Investigation?
Has anyone on here been threatened?
Who do you know was threatened?
Which bloggers were threatened?

What absolute balderdash.  Carter-Ruck do not go around 'threatening' people.  But when instructed by a client they will take steps to ensure the law of the land is upheld.

I believe they specialise in libel law.  So I doubt very much if individuals who haven't defamed anyone need to have the slightest reason for concern.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 29, 2020, 06:47:08 PM
Carter-Ruck. It was them who threatened the media, bloggers and anyone else who pointed out that other theories were possible.

Them is incorrect... The proper term is they..

Carter Ruck uphold the law
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 29, 2020, 06:57:00 PM
Carter-Ruck. It was them who threatened the media, bloggers and anyone else who pointed out that other theories were possible.
How many writs have you had out of interest?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2020, 03:59:52 PM

One wonders if the tabloids have it right and Brueckner's lawyer has met up with Amaral in Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2020, 04:05:59 PM
One wonders if the tabloids have it right and Brueckner's lawyer has met up with Amaral in Portugal.

If it's true it signifies desperate times for breukner
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2020, 04:18:13 PM
If it's true it signifies desperate times for breukner

At the moment the tabloids appear to have been granted a new reputation for probity with everything good bad or indifferent apparently meeting with approval.

If the tabloids have got it right on this occasion and there has been a meeting arranged between Amaral and Brueckner's lawyer one wonders who had the biggest axe to grind by instigating it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 13, 2020, 05:01:26 PM
One wonders if the tabloids have it right and Brueckner's lawyer has met up with Amaral in Portugal.

Where have you seen that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2020, 05:15:58 PM
Nobody who is anybody appears to read the tabloids ... or maybe just the bits they really do want to read.

On June 27th this year though Amaral yet again showed his ignorance and as "the former inspector "has no doubts" that the presence of the dogs, at the request of Kate and Gerry McCann, served to contaminate the evidence inside the apartment. "You can't be changing evidence," he recalled.

Reeeaally??  Amaral does continue to spout such a load of nonsense ... but in my opinion the truly saddest thing about it is that he has a faithful following which swallows every word of it.

How many families did Amaral allow to holiday in the crime scene apartment then quite calmly but certainly not rationally, accuse the victims of a heinous crime of contaminating the evidence ???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 13, 2020, 05:25:00 PM
Nobody who is anybody appears to read the tabloids ... or maybe just the bits they really do want to read.

On June 27th this year though Amaral yet again showed his ignorance and as "the former inspector "has no doubts" that the presence of the dogs, at the request of Kate and Gerry McCann, served to contaminate the evidence inside the apartment. "You can't be changing evidence," he recalled.

Reeeaally??  Amaral does continue to spout such a load of nonsense ... but in my opinion the truly saddest thing about it is that he has a faithful following which swallows every word of it.

How many families did Amaral allow to holiday in the crime scene apartment then quite calmly but certainly not rationally, accuse the victims of a heinous crime of contaminating the evidence ???

The mccs ruined it in the first place letting 20+ people in even though she knew Maddie was taken straight away.

Surely she would have had the sence to know it would be a crime scene ....after all, she had already searched the apartment herself knowing Maddie was not in there.

you said

One wonders if the tabloids have it right and Brueckner's lawyer has met up with Amaral in Portugal.


Where have you seen that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 13, 2020, 05:42:10 PM
The mccs ruined it in the first place letting 20+ people in even though she knew Maddie was taken straight away.

Surely she would have had the sence to know it would be a crime scene ....after all, she had already searched the apartment herself knowing Maddie was not in there.

you said

One wonders if the tabloids have it right and Brueckner's lawyer has met up with Amaral in Portugal.


Where have you seen that
In the tabloids, ob.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2020, 05:53:55 PM
The mccs ruined it in the first place letting 20+ people in even though she knew Maddie was taken straight away.

Surely she would have had the sence to know it would be a crime scene ....after all, she had already searched the apartment herself knowing Maddie was not in there.

you said

One wonders if the tabloids have it right and Brueckner's lawyer has met up with Amaral in Portugal.


Where have you seen that

The topic of this thread is Goncalo Amaral please don't post Off Topic.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 13, 2020, 05:59:08 PM
The topic of this thread is Goncalo Amaral please don't post Off Topic.  Thank you.


One wonders if the tabloids have it right and Brueckner's lawyer has met up with Amaral in Portugal.

You either have a cite or its just opinion.... .just say



How is posting that off topic the rest was to say it wasnt GA who made it one of the worst crime seen ever for contamination
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2020, 06:20:03 PM
Amaral really has no qualms about decrying witnesses and their testimony even at this late date.  Is it desperation or an attempt at deflection from current events which very firmly in my opinion put his wild and wrong theories into the gutter where they belong.

What is driving him to traduce individuals in the Portuguese media who gave evidence to his botched investigation even now that circumstances have thrown new light on Madeleine's case which is entirely different from his opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2020, 06:27:56 PM
"Enough with lies," said Amaral, referring to the testimony of her friend, Jane Tanner, who says she saw a man holding a child on the night of the child's disappearance. The inspector said that Tanner lied in his testimony about the time, place and direction in which he saw the man and that he should, at present, give a "sworn testimony". "The solution may be in it," warned the former inspector.
https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/ate-agora-nada-foi-provado-goncalo-amaral-analisa-pistas-alemas-do-caso-maddie-veja-agora-na-cmtv

Does anyone really give any credence at all to the ramblings of this man who is after all a convicted perjuror pontificating about "liars".  Obviously his specialist subject.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2020, 06:29:37 PM
"Enough with lies," said Amaral, referring to the testimony of her friend, Jane Tanner, who says she saw a man holding a child on the night of the child's disappearance. The inspector said that Tanner lied in his testimony about the time, place and direction in which he saw the man and that he should, at present, give a "sworn testimony". "The solution may be in it," warned the former inspector.
https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/ate-agora-nada-foi-provado-goncalo-amaral-analisa-pistas-alemas-do-caso-maddie-veja-agora-na-cmtv

Does anyone really give any credence at all to the ramblings of this man who is after all a convicted perjuror pontificating about "liars".  Obviously his specialist subject.

The problem is as he keeps getting found out he's not very good at it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 13, 2020, 07:10:28 PM
"Enough with lies," said Amaral, referring to the testimony of her friend, Jane Tanner, who says she saw a man holding a child on the night of the child's disappearance. The inspector said that Tanner lied in his testimony about the time, place and direction in which he saw the man and that he should, at present, give a "sworn testimony". "The solution may be in it," warned the former inspector.
https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/ate-agora-nada-foi-provado-goncalo-amaral-analisa-pistas-alemas-do-caso-maddie-veja-agora-na-cmtv

Does anyone really give any credence at all to the ramblings of this man who is after all a convicted perjuror pontificating about "liars".  Obviously his specialist subject.
The most remarkable aspect about this particular quote from Dr. Snr Amaral is the fact that he somehow, miraculously, managed to accurately discern the deception by filtering out the mind melting, stupifying idiocy that was apparently supposed to be cogent, official statement of a woman being asked to help to find a missing girl.

Forged in Fire is on in a bit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2020, 07:19:51 PM
The most remarkable aspect about this particular quote from Dr. Snr Amaral is the fact that he somehow, miraculously, managed to accurately discern the deception by filtering out the mind melting, stupifying idiocy that was apparently supposed to be cogent, official statement of a woman being asked to help to find a missing girl.

Forged in Fire is on in a bit.

there was no deception
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2020, 08:35:36 PM
Amaral has decided to tell the world that Brueckner, the German suspect in Madeleine's kidnap, is a "scapegoat".

One wonders what qualifies him to make such an assessment and why raise his head above the parapet at this moment in time to do so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2020, 09:05:35 PM
Amaral has decided to tell the world that Brueckner, the German suspect in Madeleine's kidnap, is a "scapegoat".

One wonders what qualifies him to make such an assessment and why raise his head above the parapet at this moment in time to do so.

I find it more interesting that he said it before anyone else had heard of Brueckner. He either has the gift of forseeing the future or he is still being informed of what is going on in the McCann case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 13, 2020, 10:16:28 PM
I find it more interesting that he said it before anyone else had heard of Brueckner. He either has the gift of forseeing the future or he is still being informed of what is going on in the McCann case.
The latter which obviously proves that the PJ are completely incapable of abiding by their own laws.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2020, 10:48:49 PM
I find it more interesting that he said it before anyone else had heard of Brueckner. He either has the gift of forseeing the future or he is still being informed of what is going on in the McCann case.

I have always found it absolutely riveting that Amaral found it necessary to ensure the premature release of highly confidential information regarding an active and very sensitive investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2020, 10:54:01 PM
The latter which obviously proves that the PJ are completely incapable of abiding by their own laws.

We know Amaral's investigation leaked to the press from start to finish throughout Madeleine's case starting one vile rumour after another.  The question as far as I am concerned is why he did that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 13, 2020, 11:31:25 PM
We know Amaral's investigation leaked to the press from start to finish throughout Madeleine's case starting one vile rumour after another.  The question as far as I am concerned is why he did that.
Perhaps he got (gets) backhanders from the PT press?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on September 13, 2020, 11:38:51 PM
We know Amaral's investigation leaked to the press from start to finish throughout Madeleine's case starting one vile rumour after another.  The question as far as I am concerned is why he did that.

 *%6^  Me too, and didn't he leak false info about them , such as being swingers?

I wonder why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 14, 2020, 01:10:48 AM
Amaral definitely is a bit of an enigma when all things are considered and he certainly appears to be unable to set aside his apparent obsession with Madeleine's parents which sent his investigation into her disappearance in entirely the wrong direction.

Why on earth is he going to the extent of issuing photographs of Brueckner he has doctored to show him with dreadlock type hair when we can see perfectly well from the video filmed that year that Brueckner's hair was short.
(https://cdn.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_370x209$2020_06_27_11_06_53_952728.jpg)
AMARALS CLAIM
"In 2007, there are people who claim that his figure is not short-haired. He looked like a hippie and wore long hair behind his back. And the police know it," he said.

To consolidate his statements, Gonçalo Amaral himself decided to present a reconstruction of what the German would look like in the year that Maddie disappeared. Using an image of Brueckner in 2006, a year before Maddie's disappearance, and using an image manipulation program, the former PJ presented a photomontage of the suspect with long hair.

Amaral concludes his theory with the fact that most of the witnesses in the case stated that the suspect was similar to Madeleine McCann's father, allegations corroborated by the English police. "I wonder where this individual resembles Mr. Gerard McCann", he asks.
https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-mostra-retrato-robo-de-suspeito-do-suspeito-do-caso-maddie-em-2007-que-desmente-versao-alema

Why is Amaral deliberately continuing to promote disinformation in this manner. 
The photograph posted below shows Brueckner in the weeks prior to Madeleine's disappearance.  His hair looks nothing like the image Amaral made up.
Amaral is a civilian going out of his way to interfere in an official investigation ... isn't that illegal under Portuguese secrecy of justice laws?
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/07/30/16/31376900-8576985-image-a-38_1596122141360.jpg)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576985/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-kidnap-campervan-weeks-vanished.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 14, 2020, 08:06:52 AM
*%6^  Me too, and didn't he leak false info about them , such as being swingers?

I wonder why?
Did he? Maybe to recruit the burgeoning, yet clandestine Luz swinging fraternity to assist in the search?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 14, 2020, 08:48:56 AM
Did he? Maybe to recruit the burgeoning, yet clandestine Luz swinging fraternity to assist in the search?

I believe Amaral certainly did and I believe he may very well have been responsible for quite a few of the many whoppers which are still believed and quoted daily somewhere or other in the world by his faithful followers ... extraordinary as such behaviour appears to be.

Certainly Amaral refuses to let go of many of his certainties and prejudices from the botched investigation he coordinated.  Even thirteen years down the line Amaral's arrogance and vacuity still reign supreme.


AMARAL STATES ~
There are explanations and the main one is a medicine called Calpol. We found out that the medicine existed in that apartment as a medicine that the family brought and we also found that this medicine is widely used in the United Kingdom, because it will have some sedative effects, to put the children to sleep soundly. This may have happened. In fact, the children's grandfather even said on an English channel that kids were given this medicine ...

The child's mother was questioned and she said it was paracetamol. But the fact is that the twins slept soundly when the GNR and everyone entered the apartment and left there sleeping soundly and, again, continued to sleep soundly for the rest of the night.
https://jornaldocentro.pt/online/regiao/goncalo-amaral-investigador-do-caso-maddie-diz-que-teoria-do-rapto-e-mais-fragil
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2020, 09:21:04 AM
One wonders if the tabloids have it right and Brueckner's lawyer has met up with Amaral in Portugal.

So we dont know if this happened as you haven't provided your  proof it did B

But what I would think is if he did meet with GA it would be about the alleged abduction.

If FF thinks the abduction didnt happen he may be part of the deffence.

No concrete evidence Maddie was abducted...if so how could CB be the abductor.

Could be tapas 9 could be dragged into all this. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 09:30:05 AM
So we dont know if this happened as you haven't provided your  proof it did B

But what I would think is if he did meet with GA it would be about the alleged abduction.

If FF thinks the abduction didnt happen he may be part of the deffence.

No concrete evidence Maddie was abducted...if so how could CB be the abductor.

Could be tapas 9 could be dragged into all this.

If it can be proven CB killed Maddie that would prove abduction... Either from the appt or from the street.
Amaral is, wrong when he says you first have to prove abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 14, 2020, 10:44:07 AM
If it can be proven CB killed Maddie that would prove abduction... Either from the appt or from the street.
Amaral is, wrong when he says you first have to prove abduction.

In my opinion everything about Amaral has been fundamentally wrong particularly in relation to Madeleine's case.

The first gigantic error lay in his appointment to Madeleine's case;  on May 4th he was made an arguido in a torture case involving the mother of a child who had disappeared from a village in close proximity to the one Madeleine disappeared from on 3rd May.

The fantastic stories he weaved (and still does) reveal a man with a very fertile imagination which I think he used to disguise and compensate for his lack of investigative skills.

AMARAL STATES
   ... and it was at that time, more than three months after the disappearance, that Maddie's mother came to tell a liaison officer that she had been watching a film in which the raptor had sedated the child she took and then I would like to have the twins auditioned. The point is that she is a doctor and knows as well as we do that after the elapsed time there was no chance of an analysis result.

https://jornaldocentro.pt/online/regiao/goncalo-amaral-investigador-do-caso-maddie-diz-que-teoria-do-rapto-e-mais-fragil

Now that is a new one on me regarding the Amaral Calpol fiasco.
Did Kate watch a film in which a kidnapper had sedated a child or was the turning point Kate's alleged 'dream'; which one is it or is it both💥
Or is it just another example of Amaral making it up as he goes along but this time around not undermining his own botched investigation but going out of his way to do anything he can to undermine the German investigation into a man he seems to interestingly have become an apologist for.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2020, 10:47:50 AM
If it can be proven CB killed Maddie that would prove abduction... Either from the appt or from the street.
Amaral is, wrong when he says you first have to prove abduction.

The 'evidence' that the McCanns offered didn't convince the PJ or the public prosecutor that Madeleine had been abducted. I think Amaral was correct, and spending years searching for an abductor is most strange when the nature of the crime has never been proved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 14, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
There are explanations and the main one is a medicine called Calpol. We found out that the medicine existed in that apartment as a medicine that the family brought and we also found that this medicine is widely used in the United Kingdom, because it will have some sedative effects, to put the children to sleep soundly. This may have happened. In fact, the children's grandfather even said on an English channel that kids were given this medicine ...

I can't believe Amaral is still saying that!   To mention Madeleine's Grandfather too,  whose words were taken out of context.  All Madeleine's Grandfather said was that Calpol was the only thing he had ever seen Kate and Gerry give Madeleine and of course he would have,  it is a medicine that is used widely in the UK for when a child has a  temperature not to help children sleep.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 14, 2020, 11:19:52 AM
The 'evidence' that the McCanns offered didn't convince the PJ or the public prosecutor that Madeleine had been abducted. I think Amaral was correct, and spending years searching for an abductor is most strange when the nature of the crime has never been proved.

Surely the fact that you assert "the nature of the crime has never been proved" is a failure for the Portuguese investigation which followed one dead end after another while the limited vision of the investigators are still being displayed by their chief Amaral up to and including the present day.

Why do you suppose the British and German investigations are firmly investigating abduction while the Portuguese one is ploughing its own furrow.

Quite frankly ... I don't think they are ... I think all three forces are concentrated on abduction.  The evidence is at hand, their task now is to prove it if they can and I think the Portuguese can well do without Amaral posturing in the background as a reminder of past failure, ineptitude and embarrassment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2020, 11:39:48 AM
Surely the fact that you assert "the nature of the crime has never been proved" is a failure for the Portuguese investigation which followed one dead end after another while the limited vision of the investigators are still being displayed by their chief Amaral up to and including the present day.

Why do you suppose the British and German investigations are firmly investigating abduction while the Portuguese one is ploughing its own furrow.

Quite frankly ... I don't think they are ... I think all three forces are concentrated on abduction.  The evidence is at hand, their task now is to prove it if they can and I think the Portuguese can well do without Amaral posturing in the background as a reminder of past failure, ineptitude and embarrassment.

Mark Rowley May 2017.

MR: So, you’ll understand from your experience, the way murder investigations work, detectives will start off with various hypotheses, about what’s happened in a murder, what has happened in a missing person’s investigation, whether someone has been abducted. All those different possibilities will be worked through. This case is no different from that but the evidence is limited at the moment to be cast iron as to which one of those hypotheses we should follow
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/115/MET_25_04_2017s.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 11:56:56 AM
Mark Rowley May 2017.

MR: So, you’ll understand from your experience, the way murder investigations work, detectives will start off with various hypotheses, about what’s happened in a murder, what has happened in a missing person’s investigation, whether someone has been abducted. All those different possibilities will be worked through. This case is no different from that but the evidence is limited at the moment to be cast iron as to which one of those hypotheses we should follow
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/115/MET_25_04_2017s.htm

from your quote...



Q: One of the biggest criticisms of the Portuguese investigation, which they acknowledge as well, is that they did not interrogate the parents from the start, if only to eliminate them. When you started your investigation, you appear to have done the same. Did you formally interview the McCann’s under caution, ever consider them as suspects?

MR: So when we started, we started five or so years into this and there is already a lot of ground been covered, we don’t cover the same ground, what we do is pull all the material we had at the start, all the Portuguese material, private detective material, with all the work that had been done, what that evidence supports, what rules these lines of enquiry out, what keeps them open and you progress forward.

It would be no different if there were a cold case in London, a missing person from 1990, we would go back to square one look at all the material and if the material was convincing it ruled out that line of enquiry we would look somewhere else. So you reflect on the original material, you challenge it, don’t take it at face value. You don’t restart an investigation pretending it doesn’t exist and do all the same enquiries again that is not constructive.

Q: The first detective in charge of the case said he was going right back to the start of the case and accepting nothing. It seems very much he was suggesting that it was going to be a brand new investigation.

MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work your way through the case.

Q: Just to be clear you did not interview the McCanns as potential suspects?



theres mark rowley saying they looked at all the evidence against the McCanns...and ruled them out
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2020, 12:10:52 PM
If it can be proven CB killed Maddie that would prove abduction... Either from the appt or from the street.
Amaral is, wrong when he says you first have to prove abduction.

Amaral is, wrong when he says you first have to prove abduction.

No, he isn't Maddie was either stolen or she wasn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 14, 2020, 12:18:55 PM
There are explanations and the main one is a medicine called Calpol. We found out that the medicine existed in that apartment as a medicine that the family brought and we also found that this medicine is widely used in the United Kingdom, because it will have some sedative effects, to put the children to sleep soundly. This may have happened. In fact, the children's grandfather even said on an English channel that kids were given this medicine ...

I can't believe Amaral is still saying that!   To mention Madeleine's Grandfather too,  whose words were taken out of context.  All Madeleine's Grandfather said was that Calpol was the only thing he had ever seen Kate and Gerry give Madeleine and of course he would have,  it is a medicine that is used widely in the UK for when a child has a  temperature not to help children sleep.
The man’s quite evil imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 14, 2020, 12:20:36 PM
from your quote...



Q: One of the biggest criticisms of the Portuguese investigation, which they acknowledge as well, is that they did not interrogate the parents from the start, if only to eliminate them. When you started your investigation, you appear to have done the same. Did you formally interview the McCann’s under caution, ever consider them as suspects?

MR: So when we started, we started five or so years into this and there is already a lot of ground been covered, we don’t cover the same ground, what we do is pull all the material we had at the start, all the Portuguese material, private detective material, with all the work that had been done, what that evidence supports, what rules these lines of enquiry out, what keeps them open and you progress forward.

It would be no different if there were a cold case in London, a missing person from 1990, we would go back to square one look at all the material and if the material was convincing it ruled out that line of enquiry we would look somewhere else. So you reflect on the original material, you challenge it, don’t take it at face value. You don’t restart an investigation pretending it doesn’t exist and do all the same enquiries again that is not constructive.

Q: The first detective in charge of the case said he was going right back to the start of the case and accepting nothing. It seems very much he was suggesting that it was going to be a brand new investigation.

MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work your way through the case.

Q: Just to be clear you did not interview the McCanns as potential suspects?



theres mark rowley saying they looked at all the evidence against the McCanns...and ruled them out
well that settles that particular Sceptic argument.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 14, 2020, 12:42:15 PM
There are explanations and the main one is a medicine called Calpol. We found out that the medicine existed in that apartment as a medicine that the family brought and we also found that this medicine is widely used in the United Kingdom, because it will have some sedative effects, to put the children to sleep soundly. This may have happened. In fact, the children's grandfather even said on an English channel that kids were given this medicine ...

I can't believe Amaral is still saying that!   To mention Madeleine's Grandfather too,  whose words were taken out of context.  All Madeleine's Grandfather said was that Calpol was the only thing he had ever seen Kate and Gerry give Madeleine and of course he would have,  it is a medicine that is used widely in the UK for when a child has a  temperature not to help children sleep.
It was true, that's why he said it. All facts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2020, 12:56:48 PM
from your quote...



Q: One of the biggest criticisms of the Portuguese investigation, which they acknowledge as well, is that they did not interrogate the parents from the start, if only to eliminate them. When you started your investigation, you appear to have done the same. Did you formally interview the McCann’s under caution, ever consider them as suspects?

MR: So when we started, we started five or so years into this and there is already a lot of ground been covered, we don’t cover the same ground, what we do is pull all the material we had at the start, all the Portuguese material, private detective material, with all the work that had been done, what that evidence supports, what rules these lines of enquiry out, what keeps them open and you progress forward.

It would be no different if there were a cold case in London, a missing person from 1990, we would go back to square one look at all the material and if the material was convincing it ruled out that line of enquiry we would look somewhere else. So you reflect on the original material, you challenge it, don’t take it at face value. You don’t restart an investigation pretending it doesn’t exist and do all the same enquiries again that is not constructive.

Q: The first detective in charge of the case said he was going right back to the start of the case and accepting nothing. It seems very much he was suggesting that it was going to be a brand new investigation.

MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work your way through the case.

Q: Just to be clear you did not interview the McCanns as potential suspects?



theres mark rowley saying they looked at all the evidence against the McCanns...and ruled them out

He also said;

the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/115/MET_25_04_2017s.htm

A lot of others have looked at the evidence gathered by the original investigation and can't see what OG saw. Even those who looked at it in Portugal couldn't see what Rowley claims OG could see. In my opinion that's because the original investigation did not rule out parental involvement.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 14, 2020, 01:27:53 PM
Mark Rowley May 2017.

MR: So, you’ll understand from your experience, the way murder investigations work, detectives will start off with various hypotheses, about what’s happened in a murder, what has happened in a missing person’s investigation, whether someone has been abducted. All those different possibilities will be worked through. This case is no different from that but the evidence is limited at the moment to be cast iron as to which one of those hypotheses we should follow
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/115/MET_25_04_2017s.htm

Do you know what a hypothesis is ???

Investigators go though a process of checking various possibilities out;  assessing what is useful evidence to carry forward and discarding the rubbish.
I have never heard of a credible investigator who forms his opinion first and sticks to it come hell or high water without a shred of supporting evidence but plenty of evidence to the contrary.

In my opinion that is stupidity personified and that is exactly what Amaral did.



But are you convinced she died in that room?

AMARAL STATES


We have no doubt that he died in that apartment because there was a body odor and traces of blood, material that was sent to the English laboratory.
https://jornaldocentro.pt/online/regiao/goncalo-amaral-investigador-do-caso-maddie-diz-que-teoria-do-rapto-e-mais-fragil

 

All arrant nonsense of course.  But in my opinion this is what happens when an ignoramus is set loose to interpret scientific documents he has no chance of understanding and is far too arrogant to seek and take advice from those who do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 14, 2020, 01:37:03 PM
Amaral is, wrong when he says you first have to prove abduction.

No, he isn't Maddie was either stolen or she wasn't.

Amaral didn't have to prove anything ... that wasn't his job.  All he had to do was collate evidence as it came in and his immediate task in a missing person inquiry was to look for the missing person who is Madeleine.

It was not incumbent upon him to immediately start leaking to the press about "A Badly Told Story" before the ink was dry on his arguido papers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 01:37:56 PM
Amaral is, wrong when he says you first have to prove abduction.

No, he isn't Maddie was either stolen or she wasn't.


hes wrong when he says you have to prove abduction first before looking for an abductor
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 01:43:21 PM
He also said;

the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/115/MET_25_04_2017s.htm

A lot of others have looked at the evidence gathered by the original investigation and can't see what OG saw. Even those who looked at it in Portugal couldn't see what Rowley claims OG could see. In my opinion that's because the original investigation did not rule out parental involvement.

A lot of others......who in particular...ethel from the chip shop. It doesnt matter what Ethel thinks.

the origonal investigation didnt understand the evidence...SY have ruled them out...Rowley has confirmed this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2020, 01:55:40 PM
Do you know what a hypothesis is ???

Investigators go though a process of checking various possibilities out;  assessing what is useful evidence to carry forward and discarding the rubbish.
I have never heard of a credible investigator who forms his opinion first and sticks to it come hell or high water without a shred of supporting evidence but plenty of evidence to the contrary.

In my opinion that is stupidity personified and that is exactly what Amaral did.



But are you convinced she died in that room?

AMARAL STATES


We have no doubt that he died in that apartment because there was a body odor and traces of blood, material that was sent to the English laboratory.
https://jornaldocentro.pt/online/regiao/goncalo-amaral-investigador-do-caso-maddie-diz-que-teoria-do-rapto-e-mais-fragil

 

All arrant nonsense of course.  But in my opinion this is what happens when an ignoramus is set loose to interpret scientific documents he has no chance of understanding and is far too arrogant to seek and take advice from those who do.

You may deny it, but OG declared in January 2012 what crime had been committed and have stuck to it come hell or high water since.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 02:04:52 PM
You may deny it, but OG declared in January 2012 what crime had been committed and have stuck to it come hell or high water since.

I certainly deny it because I dont think its true. abduction was a working hypothesis as the most likely scenario based on the evidence. Nothing has surfaced since to change their mind....but im sure if it did they would
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2020, 02:25:34 PM
I certainly deny it because I dont think its true. abduction was a working hypothesis as the most likely scenario based on the evidence. Nothing has surfaced since to change their mind....but im sure if it did they would

You can deny it all you like, without evidence you are merely offering your opinions.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 02:34:25 PM
You can deny it all you like, without evidence you are merely offering your opinions.

As is your post......just your opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 14, 2020, 02:46:46 PM
It was true, that's why he said it. All facts.

No it isn't.   Now you say 'it is'  and I'll say 'no it isn't'   is this how this is going?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2020, 02:50:37 PM
Amaral didn't have to prove anything ... that wasn't his job.  All he had to do was collate evidence as it came in and his immediate task in a missing person inquiry was to look for the missing person who is Madeleine.

It was not incumbent upon him to immediately start leaking to the press about "A Badly Told Story" before the ink was dry on his arguido papers.

He was got rid of on what seems a minor technicality... first excuse. ...

You will never know how his theory would have turned out.

Taking about jobs all the mccs had to do was look after their children properly and keep them safe.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 14, 2020, 02:52:09 PM
He was got rid of on what seems a minor technicality... first excuse. ...

You will never know how his theory would have turned out.

Taking about jobs all the mccs had to do was look after their children properly and keep them safe.

Change the record.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2020, 02:58:43 PM
As is your post......just your opinion

So is everything you post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 03:00:16 PM
So is everything you post.

innocent people employ lawyers....where is the problem with that...just more sceptic mudslinging...patheteic imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 14, 2020, 03:28:32 PM
innocent people employ lawyers....where is the problem with that...just more sceptic mudslinging...patheteic imo
A crack Extradition Lawyer?
Yeh, more supporter flannel, bluster and utterly transparent revisionism from the flim flam merchants.
Wake up and grab a bag.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 03:30:42 PM
A crack Extradition Lawyer?
Yeh, more supporter flannel, bluster and utterly transparent revisionism from the flim flam merchants.
Wake up and grab a bag.

You mean you can't see, why that was
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2020, 03:32:33 PM
Change the record.

Oi not my fault you dont like my posts...I could say the same to u but I wont.

What I said was true..maddie would be here today if they had looked after them properly Fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2020, 03:35:49 PM
You mean you can't see, why that was


No

IIRC GA said in his book they couldnt be imprisoned for concealing a body.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 03:49:35 PM


No

IIRC GA said in his book they couldnt be imprisoned for concealing a body.

Who cares what amaral said.  Convicted liar and his partner almeida convicted torturer
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 14, 2020, 03:56:15 PM
You mean you can't see, why that was
Because they wanted clarification on the nuances of EU law pertaining to extradition, even prior to being named Arguidii.
I'd have been concentrating on physical searching*


*I don't know what I would have done in this unique situation, but I doubt I'd be reading up on EU law and playing tennis, or running around the hills, but not looking in them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2020, 04:06:02 PM
Who cares what amaral said.  Convicted liar and his partner almeida convicted torturer

It would mean being very gullible I believ to think this is not going on in police forces across the world

Take SY with hillsborough just one of many I believe. It shouldn't happen but it does UK police seeem to get away with it.

On Friday, three PJ officers were cleared of torture, but Amaral was convicted of falsifying documents and another officer, Nunes Cardoso, was convicted of falsifying evidence at the court in Faro, the Correio da manha newspaper reported.O

 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 14, 2020, 04:08:02 PM
It would mean being very gullible I believ to think this is not going on in police forces across the world

Take SY with hillsborough just one of many I believe. It shouldn't happen but it does UK police seeem to get away with it.

On Friday, three PJ officers were cleared of torture, but Amaral was convicted of falsifying documents and another officer, Nunes Cardoso, was convicted of falsifying evidence at the court in Faro, the Correio da manha newspaper reported.O

Ooooooh, falsifying documents. If that obscure law was adhered to nobody in Wolverhampton would get a mobile phone.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
It would mean being very gullible I believ to think this is not going on in police forces across the world

Take SY with hillsborough just one of many I believe. It shouldn't happen but it does UK police seeem to get away with it.

On Friday, three PJ officers were cleared of torture, but Amaral was convicted of falsifying documents and another officer, Nunes Cardoso, was convicted of falsifying evidence at the court in Faro, the Correio da manha newspaper reported.O


I condemn it wherever it goes on... You seem to think it's OK.. Almeida was convicted of torture....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 04:17:23 PM
Ooooooh, falsifying documents. If that obscure law was adhered to nobody in Wolverhampton would get a mobile phone.

Amaral was convicted of lying in court... Perjury
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 04:18:43 PM
It would mean being very gullible I believ to think this is not going on in police forces across the world

Take SY with hillsborough just one of many I believe. It shouldn't happen but it does UK police seeem to get away with it.

On Friday, three PJ officers were cleared of torture, but Amaral was convicted of falsifying documents and another officer, Nunes Cardoso, was convicted of falsifying evidence at the court in Faro, the Correio da manha newspaper reported.O


Amaral was convicted  for lying in court.. Perjury..

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2020, 04:32:24 PM
Amaral was convicted  for lying in court.. Perjury..

same as

t would mean being very gullible I believ to think this is not going on in police forces across the world

Take SY with hillsborough just one of many I believe. It shouldn't happen but it does UK police seeem to get away with it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 05:02:48 PM
same as

t would mean being very gullible I believ to think this is not going on in police forces across the world

Take SY with hillsborough just one of many I believe. It shouldn't happen but it does UK police seeem to get away with it
once again you want to dismiss amarals disgraceful criminal behaviour.......then we hve almeida , another member of the team convicted of torture....all the officers in the cipriano torture case got away with it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 14, 2020, 05:18:09 PM
once again you want to dismiss amarals disgraceful criminal behaviour.......then we hve almeida , another member of the team convicted of torture....all the officers in the cipriano torture case got away with it
Misdemeanours and high jinx, nothing more.
They get results, lawfully, old school rough and tumble.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on September 14, 2020, 05:50:25 PM
Misdemeanours and high jinx, nothing more.
They get results, lawfully, old school rough and tumble.

And years ago some innocents were hanged as a result of your acceptance of " old school rough and tumble".
Shameful post.....in my opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2020, 06:33:23 PM
once again you want to dismiss amarals disgraceful criminal behaviour.......then we hve almeida , another member of the team convicted of torture....all the officers in the cipriano torture case got away with it

Just as it seems in UK and other countrys.....not right but doesnt mean he should be constantly vilified from you and others imo

Just becaise he had he bottle and speak out against the mccs with no fear......as others have.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 06:54:07 PM
Just as it seems in UK and other countrys.....not right but doesnt mean he should be constantly vilified from you and others imo

Just becaise he had he bottle and speak out against the mccs with no fear......as others have.

If you want to trust the word of a convicted liar...tahts up to you...I wouldnt. I shall continue to remind you everytime you quote the convicted liar...drunk driver who drove with his daughter in his car according to his wife. What would child protection say about that...or is that ok too
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 14, 2020, 06:58:47 PM
And years ago some innocents were hanged as a result of your acceptance of " old school rough and tumble".
Shameful post.....in my opinion
You lived through the 'old days'. Good times; austere, yes, but getting a leathering off a copper was a rite of passage, so I'm told.
On the back of a quasi-dictatorship on the wane, I'm pretty sure what we would term dubious was probably commonplace. Some of those wrinkly old codgers (as Wogan called his band of miserable old gets) are probably still holding lofty positions.
.....and if you think my post is shameful, you should see some of the more risque stuff I post on the UK Militaria Collectors forum - some of the back and forth can get pretty near the knuckle, let me tell you. (and yes, I probably should b....r off back there - SHEEERZAYMMM).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 14, 2020, 07:00:58 PM
If you want to trust the word of a convicted liar...tahts up to you...I wouldnt. I shall continue to remind you everytime you quote the convicted liar...drunk driver who drove with his daughter in his car according to his wife. What would child protection say about that...or is that ok too
What about John McVicar? Look how he's reinvented himself with the right support.
All Amaral did was upset a couple of doctors from provincial suburb. Get a grip guys, at least he was actually looking for her.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 07:18:21 PM
What about John McVicar? Look how he's reinvented himself with the right support.
All Amaral did was upset a couple of doctors from provincial suburb. Get a grip guys, at least he was actually looking for her.

He wasn't looking for her... That's the point.  He misunderstood the evidence and then acted on his ignorance
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 14, 2020, 07:32:36 PM
He wasn't looking for her... That's the point.  He misunderstood the evidence and then acted on his ignorance
He was so confident he wrote a bestseller about it and put his **** on the block.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 07:36:18 PM
He was so confident he wrote a bestseller about it and put his **** on the block.

doesnt change the fact that the man tasked with finding what happened to maddie couldnt understand the evidence...thats a bit of  a failing if you're trying to solve  a case....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 14, 2020, 07:45:51 PM
doesnt change the fact that the man tasked with finding what happened to maddie couldnt understand the evidence...thats a bit of  a failing if you're trying to solve  a case....
In your opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 07:48:14 PM
In your opinion.

no its on record as  a matter of fact he misunderstood the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2020, 08:04:07 PM
no its on record as  a matter of fact he misunderstood the evidence

Where is this record?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 08:05:29 PM
Where is this record?

from his own mouth
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2020, 08:30:02 PM
from his own mouth

In your opinion then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2020, 08:36:49 PM
In your opinion then.

not at all ..its factual...have you read his book

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 14, 2020, 08:40:42 PM
He was got rid of on what seems a minor technicality... first excuse. ...

You will never know how his theory would have turned out.

Taking about jobs all the mccs had to do was look after their children properly and keep them safe.

Of course I know just exactly how Amaral's theory turned out.  Most of the sentient world knows exactly how Amaral's theory turned out.  If you don't believe me, why don't you sit yourself down and read through the Policia Judiciaria Final Report which unpicked through the mistakes Amaral had made with the dogs and the forensics etc, and educate yourself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 14, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
What about John McVicar? Look how he's reinvented himself with the right support.
All Amaral did was upset a couple of doctors from provincial suburb. Get a grip guys, at least he was actually looking for her.
the pj wound down their search after a week, a pitiful effort imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2020, 10:06:51 PM
not at all ..its factual...have you read his book

The one which, according to some, is full of lies, but according to the Portuguese Courts "The facts related to the criminal investigation of Madeleine McCann's disappearance that the defendant Goncalo Amaral refers in the book, in an interview with the newspaper Correio da Manha and in the documentary are mostly facts that occurred and are documented in this investigation"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 14, 2020, 10:37:05 PM
The one which, according to some, is full of lies, but according to the Portuguese Courts "The facts related to the criminal investigation of Madeleine McCann's disappearance that the defendant Goncalo Amaral refers in the book, in an interview with the newspaper Correio da Manha and in the documentary are mostly facts that occurred and are documented in this investigation"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0

Of course they occurred 💫💫and therein lies the problem.  It is in my opinion a National disgrace for Portugal that they did occur.  I really cannot comprehend why you think this is a good thing considering that they stand as a record of sheer incompetent ineptitude when it comes to being a description of how the case of a missing child was mishandled.

I imagine if there was ever a masterclass in "how not to" ... Amaral's botched investigation must stand as the Gold Standard.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on September 15, 2020, 01:12:12 AM
IMO Amaral hasn't finished his vendetta against the McCanns.
Recent events have led to him producing deceptive images relating to suspect Christian B. on Portuguese TV & it has been reported that he also meet with CB's lawyer Fulscher last week.
I cannot help but think that his final twist of the knife will be to somehow prevent justice being served, by whatever means available, on the man who German police believe killed Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on September 15, 2020, 02:21:54 AM
IMO Amaral hasn't finished his vendetta against the McCanns.
Recent events have led to him producing deceptive images relating to suspect Christian B. on Portuguese TV & it has been reported that he also meet with CB's lawyer Fulscher last week.
I cannot help but think that his final twist of the knife will be to somehow prevent justice being served, by whatever means available, on the man who German police believe killed Madeleine McCann.


I wonder why he is so vindictive?  There has to be a reason.

I have ideas, as I guess others have too, but I cannot write them on here.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 15, 2020, 09:31:42 AM
I wonder why he is so vindictive?  There has to be a reason.

I have ideas, as I guess others have too, but I cannot write them on here.

I think on the surface it is and it isn't a mystery.

It is not a mystery because Madeleine became a lucrative meal ticket for Amaral from the minute her case was archived.  Just as he became a media personality and a celebrity on the same basis.
Madeleine represents a lot of money for Amaral.

In all of this he has been aided and abetted by sympathisers using unprecedented social media internet campaigns all of which are based on the same misinformation he has promoted assiduously for years.

Where the mystery comes in for me is that his fame and celebrity is all based on lies and misinterpretations.  All of which are easily proven to be lies again dating back to the archiving report and sometimes earlier but which are still allowed to be promoted by him in the Portuguese media to this day.

As well as being promoted relentlessly by Amaral's sympathisers using all media and internet outlets available to them, including this one.

"The truth is out there" folks and at the moment the Germans are actively pursuing it.  Which is why I find Amaral's machinations to throw a spanner into their works so intriguing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2020, 10:17:05 AM
This is the sort of rubbish that showed amaral did not understand the evidence...from his book..


Eddie is always the first to be brought onto a site. Once he has discerned the odour that he knows so well, it's Keela's turn to go into action, on the lookout for the slightest whiff of blood. The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it's probably there that the death occurred.

and this from the coordintor of the investigation...what absolute rubbish
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 15, 2020, 10:26:45 AM
I think on the surface it is and it isn't a mystery.

It is not a mystery because Madeleine became a lucrative meal ticket for Amaral from the minute her case was archived.  Just as he became a media personality and a celebrity on the same basis.
Madeleine represents a lot of money for Amaral.

In all of this he has been aided and abetted by sympathisers using unprecedented social media internet campaigns all of which are based on the same misinformation he has promoted assiduously for years.

Where the mystery comes in for me is that his fame and celebrity is all based on lies and misinterpretations.  All of which are easily proven to be lies again dating back to the archiving report and sometimes earlier but which are still allowed to be promoted by him in the Portuguese media to this day.

As well as being promoted relentlessly by Amaral's sympathisers using all media and internet outlets available to them, including this one.

"The truth is out there" folks and at the moment the Germans are actively pursuing it.  Which is why I find Amaral's machinations to throw a spanner into their works so intriguing.

It is not a mystery because Madeleine became a lucrative meal ticket for Amaral


The mccs didnt do to bad paying the mortgage from the fund gives you an idea that they were not too well off.

Seems now they have never looked back.....they I ...believe had millions at there disposal.

Seems it was more important going after GA with fund money than looking for Maddie.

Oh yes kmcc forgives abductor.....but not GA IIRC she wants GA to feel misery and fear, yet not abductor.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2020, 10:32:10 AM
Does no one have anything original or different to say anymore or must some like a dog returning to its own vomit repeat the same old nauseating mantras day in, day out forever and a day? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on September 15, 2020, 11:36:38 AM
IMO Amaral hasn't finished his vendetta against the McCanns.
Recent events have led to him producing deceptive images relating to suspect Christian B. on Portuguese TV & it has been reported that he also meet with CB's lawyer Fulscher last week.
I cannot help but think that his final twist of the knife will be to somehow prevent justice being served, by whatever means available, on the man who German police believe killed Madeleine McCann.

And why should he do that?

Is it just the malice of a man that has been exposed and is now a beaten man; getting his own back

Or is he there some other reason?   What could it be?   He was the drugs cop after all, could it be something to do with that?

The mind boggles.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 15, 2020, 11:42:58 AM
And why should he do that?

Is it just the malice of a man that has been exposed and is now a beaten man; getting his own back

Or is he there some other reason?   What could it be?   He was the drugs cop after all, could it be something to do with that?

The mind boggles.
I think he's being asked questions and answering them. Sometimes he's paid to answer the questions. Seems like a lucrative sideline while he enjoys his retirement, safe in the knowledge that the baying media continue to fund his comfortable lifestyle.
He doesn't need to cultivate a vendetta or some malicious agenda, the media have him as the pantomime villain already, so why not get paid for the privilege?
Genius.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2020, 11:45:21 AM
I think he's being asked questions and answering them. Sometimes he's paid to answer the questions. Seems like a lucrative sideline while he enjoys his retirement, safe in the knowledge that the baying media continue to fund his comfortable lifestyle.
He doesn't need to cultivate a vendetta or some malicious agenda, the media have him as the pantomime villain already, so why not get paid for the privilege?
Genius.
You say genius I say vile creep, let's call the whole thing off.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 15, 2020, 11:48:57 AM
I think he's being asked questions and answering them. Sometimes he's paid to answer the questions. Seems like a lucrative sideline while he enjoys his retirement, safe in the knowledge that the baying media continue to fund his comfortable lifestyle.
He doesn't need to cultivate a vendetta or some malicious agenda, the media have him as the pantomime villain already, so why not get paid for the privilege?
Genius.

Indeed. For Amaral this case is the gift that keeps giving and as he now has no paid employment who can blame him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2020, 11:55:58 AM
Nice to see McCann sceptics applauding the exploitation of a missing child for personal financial gain.  I thought they were down with that sort of thing?  Clearly not when their hero Amaral is involved.  Another example of their appallingly, hypocritical double standards IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 15, 2020, 11:56:54 AM
Indeed. For Amaral this case is the gift that keeps giving and as he now has no paid employment who can blame him.
He solves the case over a decade ago, wins an acrimonious legal battle with a couple of angry doctors and can now sit back and essentially pick which media outlet to rinse this week in return for his factual account.
Bingo.

.....he'll be channelling Les Grossman on a daily basis when he checks his diary....
Shawty had them Apple Bottom Jeans (jeans)
Boots with the fur (with the fur)
The whole club was lookin' at her
She hit the floor (she hit the floor)
Next thing you know
Shawty got low low low low low low low low
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on September 15, 2020, 12:03:12 PM
He solves the case over a decade ago, wins an acrimonious legal battle with a couple of angry doctors and can now sit back and essentially pick which media outlet to rinse this week in return for his factual account.
Bingo.

.....he'll be channelling Les Grossman on a daily basis when he checks his diary....
Shawty had them Apple Bottom Jeans (jeans)
Boots with the fur (with the fur)
The whole club was lookin' at her
She hit the floor (she hit the floor)
Next thing you know
Shawty got low low low low low low low low

He solves the case?   

You really are a COMIC. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 15, 2020, 12:03:29 PM

It is not a mystery because Madeleine became a lucrative meal ticket for Amaral


The mccs didnt do to bad paying the mortgage from the fund gives you an idea that they were not too well off.

Seems now they have never looked back.....they I ...believe had millions at there disposal.

Seems it was more important going after GA with fund money than looking for Maddie.

Oh yes kmcc forgives abductor.....but not GA IIRC she wants GA to feel misery and fear, yet not abductor.

Your post is all so dated and tiresome with content really suffering from overuse and overexposure.  Also in my opinion it's value lies in really showing up to even the most disinterested observer exactly where your priorities lie which also as far as I am concerned is not at all a pretty sight.

I had to check what thread I was on there because they all do tend to merge into the one theme but I see it is the one and only 'Goncalo Amaral' thread.  So plenty to be going on with there.

Moving on into the present and back to where we were on the thread ...why do you think Amaral seems intent on rubbishing the present investigation into Madeleine's disappearance being first to ensure Brueckner's anonymity was revealed to the public domain.

https://www.jn.pt/justica/goncalo-amaral-previu-ha-um-ano-aparecimetno-de-um-suspeito-alemao-no-caso-maddie-12280210.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 15, 2020, 12:04:29 PM
He solves the case over a decade ago, wins an acrimonious legal battle with a couple of angry doctors and can now sit back and essentially pick which media outlet to rinse this week in return for his factual account.
Bingo.

.....he'll be channelling Les Grossman on a daily basis when he checks his diary....
Shawty had them Apple Bottom Jeans (jeans)
Boots with the fur (with the fur)
The whole club was lookin' at her
She hit the floor (she hit the floor)
Next thing you know
Shawty got low low low low low low low low

Well he had to find some income stream....those luxury villas won’t buy themselves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2020, 12:05:43 PM
He solves the case?   

You really are a COMIC.
The General doesn't even really believe that, he's just on a wind up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 15, 2020, 12:12:54 PM
He solves the case?   

You really are a COMIC.
Ayethangyou.

I'm here all week.

....take my mother in law, no seriously, take her!

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2020, 12:35:23 PM
He solves the case?   

You really are a COMIC.

No-one has proved him wrong as yet, despite so many trying to. The McCanns, their supporters, their lawyers, the UK media and police have been promoting abduction for 13 years but that still hasn't made it a fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2020, 12:43:19 PM
No-one has proved him wrong as yet, despite so many trying to. The McCanns, their supporters, their lawyers, the UK media and police have been promoting abduction for 13 years but that still hasn't made it a fact.

That really is the most pathetic argument... The sort used by fundamentalist to prove the existence of god
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2020, 12:43:31 PM
No-one has proved him wrong as yet, despite so many trying to. The McCanns, their supporters, their lawyers, the UK media and police have been promoting abduction for 13 years but that still hasn't made it a fact.
And no one's proved him right yet, no wonder these latest developments have made him desperate and twitchy, releasing fake info to the media.  How can ANYONE defend the actions of this creep?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2020, 12:44:12 PM
That really is the most pathetic argument... The sort used by fundamentalist to prove the existence of god
AMARAL = GOD to some.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2020, 02:40:26 PM
No-one has proved him wrong as yet, despite so many trying to. The McCanns, their supporters, their lawyers, the UK media and police have been promoting abduction for 13 years but that still hasn't made it a fact.

You would also have to accept that no one has proved Sadie wrong . Between the two I would say sadie's theory is by far more likely
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 15, 2020, 02:49:35 PM
You would also have to accept that no one has proved Sadie wrong . Between the two I would say sadie's theory is by far more likely
Ancient Jewish pure-blood line, stolen to order to be paired up with Joana Cipriano to embark on a journey to.....a.....a.....breeding program for.......extension of the blood line.....to.........fulfill Old Testament prophesy?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2020, 02:52:02 PM
Ancient Jewish pure-blood line, stolen to order to be paired up with Joana Cipriano to embark on a journey to.....a.....a.....breeding program for.......extension of the blood line.....to.........fulfill Old Testament prophesy?

As sceptics say...no one has proved it wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2020, 03:09:20 PM
As sceptics say...no one has proved it wrong

And you think it's far more likely than parental involvement.  &%%6
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2020, 03:19:40 PM
And you think it's far more likely than parental involvement.  &%%6
Prove it isn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 15, 2020, 05:37:00 PM
And you think it's far more likely than parental involvement.  &%%6

Naahhh I don’t think even they’re silly enough to believe that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2020, 05:48:42 PM
And you think it's far more likely than parental involvement.  &%%6

No ones proved it wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 15, 2020, 05:53:03 PM
No ones proved it wrong

So do you think it’s credible as a theory?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on September 15, 2020, 06:27:53 PM
No ones proved it wrong

OG digging up waste land and the Germans digging allotments certainly haven't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2020, 06:29:21 PM
OG digging up waste land and the Germans digging allotments certainly haven't.

no one has proved sadie's theory wrong...that is  a fact which no one can dispute
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on September 15, 2020, 06:30:42 PM
no one has proved sadie's theory wrong...that is  a fact which no one can dispute

Along with Amaral's which is also fact no one can dispute.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2020, 06:41:45 PM
Along with Amaral's which is also fact no one can dispute.

two peas in a pod......neither amarals or sadies theory have been proven wrong...that was the point i was making
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2020, 06:44:32 PM
two peas in a pod......neither amarals or sadies theory have been proven wrong...that wa sthe point i was making
Even when Amaral’s theory IS proven wrong people won’t accept that it has been - you can’t reason with conspiracy theorists.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2020, 06:47:39 PM
Along with Amaral's which is also fact no one can dispute.

what is true is that the evidence amaral uses to support his theory has been proven wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 16, 2020, 12:42:31 AM
AMARAL = GOD to some.
And a DOG to others.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on September 16, 2020, 01:42:09 AM
two peas in a pod......neither amarals or sadies theory have been proven wrong...that was the point i was making

Erm …….

Two peas in a pod ?   I think not.
 

I think Amarals theory has been shown to be wrong in a number of places, and he doesn't adjust his thinking when that is shown, except when he thinks that he has been uncovered.     If one makes a mistake, then one should adjust ones theory and go back to where everything was definitely correct.   In Engineering that place was called The Datum


I feel sure that I will have made some mistakes in the books of facts and co-incidences that I have given to SY, but at least I have shown the integrity to rectify these … and pointed out to them that I cannot be sure, when I am not sure.

As far as I can see, Amaral has set his mind right from the start and never allowed anything that discredits his theory to get in the way.   He has ignored stuff that he should have looked at and also stuff that made a nonsense of parts of his theory … he has just gone along, set in his mind, in the same vein as he decided on at the very beginning.   Bad Practice.


These are just my observations and I believe correct.   No, I am not going to get bogged down in finding cites.  I am too old for that.   By all means challenge my statement here; that is often the way that I realise new facts.


SY have a multitude of mini proofs of what I am saying and many more things that I haven't divulged here.   Facts that not one of you knows about.   And that is the way it has to stay.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 16, 2020, 11:45:03 AM
Erm …….

Two peas in a pod ?   I think not.
 

I think Amarals theory has been shown to be wrong in a number of places, and he doesn't adjust his thinking when that is shown, except when he thinks that he has been uncovered.     If one makes a mistake, then one should adjust ones theory and go back to where everything was definitely correct.   In Engineering that place was called The Datum


I feel sure that I will have made some mistakes in the books of facts and co-incidences that I have given to SY, but at least I have shown the integrity to rectify these … and pointed out to them that I cannot be sure, when I am not sure.

As far as I can see, Amaral has set his mind right from the start and never allowed anything that discredits his theory to get in the way.   He has ignored stuff that he should have looked at and also stuff that made a nonsense of parts of his theory … he has just gone along, set in his mind, in the same vein as he decided on at the very beginning.   Bad Practice.


These are just my observations and I believe correct.   No, I am not going to get bogged down in finding cites.  I am too old for that.   By all means challenge my statement here; that is often the way that I realise new facts.


SY have a multitude of mini proofs of what I am saying and many more things that I haven't divulged here.   Facts that not one of you knows about.   And that is the way it has to stay.

Clearly and succinctly put. Sadie.

You have explained precisely what a theory actually is and in doing so have proved that Amaral's 'certainties' are more than flawed as new evidence contradicts his belief.

Essentially I do not think he is a stupid man but his single minded blinkered approach epitomises foolishness and a lack of judgement quite beyond belief.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 16, 2020, 02:11:04 PM
Clearly and succinctly put. Sadie.

You have explained precisely what a theory actually is and in doing so have proved that Amaral's 'certainties' are more than flawed as new evidence contradicts his belief.

Essentially I do not think he is a stupid man but his single minded blinkered approach epitomises foolishness and a lack of judgement quite beyond belief.

GA had theory..as did the team this including in the begining uk police as well.

They should not have just concentrated on abduction ....when they had doubts about the mccs..they should have been made arguido sooner.

This I believe is when it all went wrong....now we may never know.

- I agree with you. If a mistake was made, it was in taking so long to make the couple arguidos. Too much politics, that's what there was, too much politics and not enough policing.

- I'd say rather that the mistake was in treating the McCanns "with tweezers." From the start of the investigation, we realised that certain things did not add up and yet, they continued to benefit from favourable treatment; that's what's not normal!

- Does the national director perhaps think that the couple only left Portugal because they had been placed under investigation?

- In fact, the McCanns stayed in Portugal as long as we stuck to the theory of abduction; from the moment that was placed in doubt, they talked about returning to England.

- From which can be concluded that their being placed under investigation gave them an excuse to leave the country...

 


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 16, 2020, 03:20:21 PM
GA had theory..as did the team this including in the begining uk police as well.

They should not have just concentrated on abduction ....when they had doubts about the mccs..they should have been made arguido sooner.

This I believe is when it all went wrong....now we may never know.

- I agree with you. If a mistake was made, it was in taking so long to make the couple arguidos. Too much politics, that's what there was, too much politics and not enough policing.

- I'd say rather that the mistake was in treating the McCanns "with tweezers." From the start of the investigation, we realised that certain things did not add up and yet, they continued to benefit from favourable treatment; that's what's not normal!

- Does the national director perhaps think that the couple only left Portugal because they had been placed under investigation?

- In fact, the McCanns stayed in Portugal as long as we stuck to the theory of abduction; from the moment that was placed in doubt, they talked about returning to England.

- From which can be concluded that their being placed under investigation gave them an excuse to leave the country...

If you think anyone in their right mind is going to attempt to plough through that dog's breakfast of a post, you are up a gum tree ... in my opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 16, 2020, 03:25:02 PM
If you think anyone in their right mind is going to attempt to plough through that dog's breakfast of a post, you are up a gum tree ... in my opinion.

Who has put a line through it all was it you.

Anyway this seems interesting. from FF CB lawyer,



Fuelscher has been plunged into the centre of one of the world's biggest unsolved crimes when Maddie vanished in May 2007.

Last week he flew to the Algarve.

He claimed: “I have been to Portugal to investigate for myself.

“I went to check the locality there.

“I clearly went more openly and attempted to make my own conclusions on the sources of information available to me – for example the Portuguese investigation files.”

He claimed he uncovered completely new information which he plans to reveal in coming weeks.

“I cannot tell you what it is - but it is big. It certainly surprised me,” he said.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 16, 2020, 03:55:18 PM
GA had theory..as did the team this including in the begining uk police as well.

They should not have just concentrated on abduction ....when they had doubts about the mccs..they should have been made arguido sooner.

This I believe is when it all went wrong....now we may never know.

- I agree with you. If a mistake was made, it was in taking so long to make the couple arguidos. Too much politics, that's what there was, too much politics and not enough policing.

- I'd say rather that the mistake was in treating the McCanns "with tweezers." From the start of the investigation, we realised that certain things did not add up and yet, they continued to benefit from favourable treatment; that's what's not normal!

- Does the national director perhaps think that the couple only left Portugal because they had been placed under investigation?

- In fact, the McCanns stayed in Portugal as long as we stuck to the theory of abduction; from the moment that was placed in doubt, they talked about returning to England.

- From which can be concluded that their being placed under investigation gave them an excuse to leave the country...

Why do you keep crossing out your text? Weird
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 16, 2020, 03:56:28 PM
Who has put a line through it all was it you.

Anyway this seems interesting. from FF CB lawyer,



Fuelscher has been plunged into the centre of one of the world's biggest unsolved crimes when Maddie vanished in May 2007.

Last week he flew to the Algarve.

He claimed: “I have been to Portugal to investigate for myself.

“I went to check the locality there.

“I clearly went more openly and attempted to make my own conclusions on the sources of information available to me – for example the Portuguese investigation files.”

He claimed he uncovered completely new information which he plans to reveal in coming weeks.

“I cannot tell you what it is - but it is big. It certainly surprised me,” he said.

Sounds like he's discovered Amaral's Ace and stuffed it up his own sleeve for a rainy day!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 16, 2020, 03:57:38 PM
Why do you keep crossing out your text? Weird

I don't ....that what is weird ...its why I asked B if she had done it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 16, 2020, 04:50:55 PM
Sounds like he's discovered Amaral's Ace and stuffed it up his own sleeve for a rainy day!

Thought it was HCW who had the ace up his sleve...I remember saying anyone with an ace up his sleeve is a cheat.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 16, 2020, 04:54:11 PM
If you think anyone in their right mind is going to attempt to plough through that dog's breakfast of a post, you are up a gum tree ... in my opinion.

Excuse me, I am up a gumtree...what is that suppose to mean.

I was going to report this post to a mod then realised you are a senior moderator. lol
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 16, 2020, 05:10:17 PM
I don't ....that what is weird ...its why I asked B if she had done it.
If she had it would have said edited by Brietta at the bottom. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 16, 2020, 05:11:31 PM
Thought it was HCW who had the ace up his sleve...I remember saying anyone with an ace up his sleeve is a cheat.
The original ace up the sleeve belonged to Amaral.  We’re all still waiting for it to be produced.  Won’t be long now...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 16, 2020, 10:15:01 PM
I don't ....that what is weird ...its why I asked B if she had done it.
Well who has done this?    subscript
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 16, 2020, 11:04:59 PM
Well who has done this?
weren’t me guv.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 12:27:12 AM
weren’t me guv.
See I'm capable of putting subscript text into your post but it has a message showing it was me.  How do I hide the message?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 17, 2020, 07:10:46 AM
See I'm capable of putting subscript text into your post but it has a message showing it was me.  How do I hide the message?
I think Kizzy must be inadvertently cancelling her own posts somehow (which is kind of funny really).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 08:56:02 AM
I think Kizzy must be inadvertently cancelling her own posts somehow (which is kind of funny really).
That is possible, but to do it yourself you either do it at the time of the post or amending the post within the next few minutes of first being posted. (this post first amended 4 minutes after posting)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 17, 2020, 09:11:59 AM
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian B ‘hopes shamed cop Goncalo Amaral will CLEAR him’ as lawyer reveals ‘breakthrough’
EXCLUSIVE
Nick OwensTariq Tahir
16 Sep 2020, 14:43Updated: 16 Sep 2020, 14:45

MADELEINE McCann prime suspect Christian B is hoping the disgraced cop who led the probe into her disappearance will clear him.

Goncalo Amaral has now met with the jailed German's lawyer Friedrich Fuelscher, who has promised to reveal a "big" breakthrough in the case in the coming weeks.

Convicted paedophile and rapist Christian B was named as the prime suspect in the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine and is currently serving a one year nine month sentence for drug dealing.

Portuguese Police sources say Christian B hopes Amaral - who believes the German is a "scapegoat"- will help provide further information to support his claims he was not responsible for the crimes.

A source said ever since Christian B's "name was released by the German authorities, Amaral, along with many other senior Portuguese police officers, have insisted he is not the man who took Madeleine.

“They looked at him, ruled him out and believe focusing on him distracts from really finding out what may have happened to Madeleine.”


The source said that the suspect's “legal team hope Amaral will help to provide further information as to the original investigation.

“They are interested in who Amaral and his team spoke to, what they learned and how that information was used.”

Christian B's lawyer Friedrich Fuelscher has himself last week flew to the Algarve, where Madeleine went missing during a family holiday in 2007.

He claimed he uncovered completely new information which he plans to reveal in coming weeks.

“I cannot tell you what it is - but it is big. It certainly surprised me,” he said.

During his time in Portugal he met Amaral who led the hunt for Madeleine and named parents, Kate and Gerry, of Rothley, Leicestershire, as suspects.

The McCann's have previously been locked in legal battles with Amaral over the publication of his book about the case.

He was removed as head of the investigation after criticising British detectives and claiming they were only following leads the McCanns asked them to pursue.

Meanwhile Sun Online can reveal how German officers want to expand their investigation to the Algarve in a bid to throw up new clues.

Last week they spent 12 hours talking to his ex in the Algarve, the first time they have been allowed to work on the case in Portugal.

But German officers are keen to return and are willing to work more closely with their Portuguese counterparts.

One reason they have been restricted is because relations between the German and Portuguese police - who ruled out Christian B as a suspect years ago - are so poor.

The source said they are keen to return because "they are convinced clues to what happened to Madeleine" and Christian B's "role in her disappearance are there".

“The German officers leading this investigation think there is a lot more work to be done in Portugal and there are leads which could be followed up and chased down."

The German authorities have admitted there will be no major progress before next year in their probe into Christian B.

Prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters said: "We haven't got the information we need to charge Christian B."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12684404/madeleine-mccann-suspect-goncalo-amaral-clear-him/

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 09:14:23 AM
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian B ‘hopes shamed cop Goncalo Amaral will CLEAR him’ as lawyer reveals ‘breakthrough’
EXCLUSIVE
Nick OwensTariq Tahir
16 Sep 2020, 14:43Updated: 16 Sep 2020, 14:45

MADELEINE McCann prime suspect Christian B is hoping the disgraced cop who led the probe into her disappearance will clear him.

Goncalo Amaral has now met with the jailed German's lawyer Friedrich Fuelscher, who has promised to reveal a "big" breakthrough in the case in the coming weeks.

Convicted paedophile and rapist Christian B was named as the prime suspect in the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine and is currently serving a one year nine month sentence for drug dealing.

Portuguese Police sources say Christian B hopes Amaral - who believes the German is a "scapegoat"- will help provide further information to support his claims he was not responsible for the crimes.

A source said ever since Christian B's "name was released by the German authorities, Amaral, along with many other senior Portuguese police officers, have insisted he is not the man who took Madeleine.

“They looked at him, ruled him out and believe focusing on him distracts from really finding out what may have happened to Madeleine.”


The source said that the suspect's “legal team hope Amaral will help to provide further information as to the original investigation.

“They are interested in who Amaral and his team spoke to, what they learned and how that information was used.”

Christian B's lawyer Friedrich Fuelscher has himself last week flew to the Algarve, where Madeleine went missing during a family holiday in 2007.

He claimed he uncovered completely new information which he plans to reveal in coming weeks.

“I cannot tell you what it is - but it is big. It certainly surprised me,” he said.

During his time in Portugal he met Amaral who led the hunt for Madeleine and named parents, Kate and Gerry, of Rothley, Leicestershire, as suspects.

The McCann's have previously been locked in legal battles with Amaral over the publication of his book about the case.

He was removed as head of the investigation after criticising British detectives and claiming they were only following leads the McCanns asked them to pursue.

Meanwhile Sun Online can reveal how German officers want to expand their investigation to the Algarve in a bid to throw up new clues.

Last week they spent 12 hours talking to his ex in the Algarve, the first time they have been allowed to work on the case in Portugal.

But German officers are keen to return and are willing to work more closely with their Portuguese counterparts.

One reason they have been restricted is because relations between the German and Portuguese police - who ruled out Christian B as a suspect years ago - are so poor.

The source said they are keen to return because "they are convinced clues to what happened to Madeleine" and Christian B's "role in her disappearance are there".

“The German officers leading this investigation think there is a lot more work to be done in Portugal and there are leads which could be followed up and chased down."

The German authorities have admitted there will be no major progress before next year in their probe into Christian B.

Prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters said: "We haven't got the information we need to charge Christian B."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12684404/madeleine-mccann-suspect-goncalo-amaral-clear-him/
This is getting real interesting now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 09:52:39 AM
This is getting real interesting now.

Its getting extremely interesting.

As I have posted several times if the dog  alerts are correct then CB is cleared of abduction. Then some may think if maddies dna is in the hire car its further proof but that isnt true.

CBs lawyer may well beleive the rubbish spouted by amaral. This will put the dogs and DNA in the spotlight and may well answer some important question. Will grime support the alerts as evidence or even testify ...I doubt it. More like imo the alerts and dna will be further discredited
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 17, 2020, 09:52:44 AM
This is getting real interesting now.

Well if there's completely new information,  why hasn't Amaral come forward and enlightened the German Police?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 09:56:59 AM
Well if there's completely new information,  why hasn't Amaral come forward and enlightened the German Police?

amaral has no new information...its new to CBs lawyer. If hes relying on amaral then he's a fool...and no doubt about it....note to mods...If john can call HCW a pillock, which he is perfectly entitled to ......then its raesonable to refer to the lawyer as  afool.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 17, 2020, 10:06:42 AM
See I'm capable of putting subscript text into your post but it has a message showing it was me.  How do I hide the message?


Its ok Rob I have worked it out its when I put a s in brackets.

Like when I put theory

It comes up on the post ok but a line through it when posted
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 17, 2020, 10:12:18 AM
I will be extremely surprised if Brueckner's lawyer has not received numerous communications from a legal entity from these shores who is well known to us but probably less so in the real world.

Poor man 🙆‍♂️ if he has listened to not the www as we know it but the www with a black fedora'd individual smack in the middle of it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 17, 2020, 10:16:42 AM

Its ok Rob I have worked it out its when I put a s in brackets.

Like when I put theory

It comes up on the post ok but a line through it when posted

WOW!!! so it wasn't B after all then.  It was all down to you.  Is it possible that B might warrant an apology.  It's perfectly fine though, don't bother as B won't be holding her breath waiting for one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 17, 2020, 10:33:11 AM
WOW!!! so it wasn't B after all then.  It was all down to you.  Is it possible that B might warrant an apology.  It's perfectly fine though, don't bother as B won't be holding her breath waiting for one.

I will give you an apoligy B.  *%^^&

But in fairness, I did ask you not accuse you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 17, 2020, 10:42:18 AM
I will give you an apoligy B.  *%^^&

But in fairness, I did ask you not accuse you.

Apology accepted in the spirit in which it was given.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on September 17, 2020, 10:45:22 AM
amaral has no new information...its new to CBs lawyer. If hes relying on amaral then he's a fool...and no doubt about it....note to mods...If john can call HCW a pillock, which he is perfectly entitled to ......then its raesonable to refer to the lawyer as  afool.
Maybe Fulscher is considering bringing Tannerman back in the picture?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 17, 2020, 11:12:31 AM
Maybe Fulscher is considering bringing Tannerman back in the picture?
I hadn't thought of that Anthro.

I think the child being carried was Madeleine.  But if recent tabloid reports that Brueckner had an accomplice are correct that certainly puts a different complexion on it.

For one it explains the open window despite Amaral's amateurish assessment of it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 11:23:20 AM
Maybe Fulscher is considering bringing Tannerman back in the picture?

I think it will be amarals already abandoned non evidence... So perhaps the Smith sighting too.
W
I really hope he does so that the rubbish spouted by amaral can be totally ridiculed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 11:33:09 AM
so CBs lawyer claims new evidence from amaral will clear his client.  So this seems to confirm that CB does not have an alibi as I suggested. The red flag just went even higher
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 17, 2020, 11:49:07 AM
so CBs lawyer claims new evidence from amaral will clear his client.  So this seems to confirm that CB does not have an alibi as I suggested. The red flag just went even higher

I dont know how .....how silly really to think a drifter would know what he was doing on 3. 5. 2007.

Its like the friend/witness who saw the vidio of the rape, when it seems no vidio exists.

What he can maybe prove with the help of GA and PJ is no abduction took place so how could CB be abductor.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 12:02:07 PM
I dont know how .....how silly really to think a drifter would know what he was doing on 3. 5. 2007.

Its like the friend/witness who saw the vidio of the rape, when it seems no vidio exists.

What he can maybe prove with the help of GA and PJ is no abduction took place so how could CB be abductor.
I think amarals involvement will be hilarious... I'm looking forward to it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 12:12:18 PM

Its ok Rob I have worked it out its when I put a s in brackets.

Like when I put theory

It comes up on the post ok but a line through it when posted
Try B in the brackets if you want it to be bold text.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 17, 2020, 12:19:51 PM
I think amarals involvement will be hilarious... I'm looking forward to it

Certainly interesting.  The thought arises that should there be a trial and should Amaral be called as a witness for the defence to a trial in Germany, and I think that may very well be where the trial will be held due to the Portuguese statute of limitations, will he agree to attend?

I don't know a thing about how criminal or any other German trials are conducted but the thought of Amaral's testimony facing thorough forensic scrutiny divorced from the comfort of the chat show sofa is intriguing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 12:25:21 PM
Certainly interesting.  The thought arises that should there be a trial and should Amaral be called as a witness for the defence to a trial in Germany, and I think that may very well be where the trial will be held due to the Portuguese statute of limitations, will he agree to attend?

I don't know a thing about how criminal or any other German trials are conducted but the thought of Amaral's testimony facing thorough forensic scrutiny divorced from the comfort of the chat show sofa is intriguing.

thats why i find it interesting...it will bring amarals theory and expertise out into the open to be challenged. hes ok making these claims on friendly portuguese chat shows where he goes unchallenged.

I can just imagine him telling Fulscher that the dogs, who have a 100% record and have solved over 200 cases, alerted in the apartmnet and therefore prove maddies body was in that apartmnet.


it completely exhonerates his client.....if the alerts are reliable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 17, 2020, 12:35:20 PM
I think amarals involvement will be hilarious... I'm looking forward to it

You won't if............. If it is proved he has been right all along, about the non-abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 12:40:17 PM
thats why i find it interesting...it will bring amarals theory and expertise out into the open to be challenged. hes ok making these claims on friendly portuguese chat shows where he goes unchallenged.

I can just imagine him telling Fulscher that the dogs, who have a 100% record and have solved over 200 cases, alerted in the apartmnet and therefore prove maddies body was in that apartmnet.


it completely exhonerates his client.....if the alerts are reliable
Not if the alerts were to some other cadaver.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 12:40:52 PM
You won't if............. If it is proved he has been right all along, about the non-abduction.

Im certain he will look an absolute fool because he doesnt understand the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 12:42:22 PM
Not if the alerts were to some other cadaver.

im not going into full detail but amaral will tell Fulscher hes checked and there was no other death in the apartmnet
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 17, 2020, 12:48:25 PM
thats why i find it interesting...it will bring amarals theory and expertis eout into the open to be challenged. hes ok making thes eclaims on friendly portuguese chat shows wher ehe goes unchallenged.

I can just imagine him telling Fulscher that the dogs, who have a 100% record and have solved over 200 cases, alered in the apartmnet and therefore prove maddiess body was in that apartmnet.


it completely exhonerates his client.....if the alerts are reliable

I think Fulscher is on a learning curve here.

I doubt he will ever again make another unguarded comment to the press such as that he wouldn't trust Brueckner to babysit for a child.

I too would be content if the dog evidence were to be introduced into evidence but somehow I don't think that is ever going to happen if Fulscher does his homework properly, which I think he will.

I think the concentration will be on Amaral's recent statements regarding Brueckner's original clearance in 2007 by the judicial police and perhaps on the interesting hand painted distinctive van Amaral claims Brueckner drove at the time in question.

Fulscher had no option but to try to gain access to Amaral as the first lead investigator and as a person assuring the world Fulscher's client is a scapegoat.  He would have been in dereliction of his duty not to.  It will be interesting to see how far he allows himself to be led by it.

But certainly the Amaral puzzle is in my opinion unravelling and it will be interesting to see what is exposed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
im not going into full detail but amaral will tell Fulscher hes checked and there was no other death in the apartmnet
See if you can get the UK police to say the same.   I don't think they will.  They may say  something like "we won't comment on an active investigation".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 17, 2020, 01:12:01 PM
I think amarals involvement will be hilarious... I'm looking forward to it
He's got a decent strike rate in court. But you're right in a way, rebuffing the challenge of two hapless doctors is one thing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 17, 2020, 01:17:05 PM
See if you can get the UK police to say the same.   I don't think they will.  They may say  something like "we won't comment on an active investigation".
Fair point, Rob.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 01:21:07 PM
He's got a decent strike rate in court. But you're right in a way, rebuffing the challenge of two hapless doctors is one thing.

not sure who you are refderring to as to the strike rate in court...havent seen any evidence of amarals success...just cipriano with no evidence just the results of  a beating....is he strike rate referring to a beating
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 01:23:21 PM
Fair point, Rob.
I'm saying you can have the cadaver dogs alerting to cadaver odour in the McCann's apartment and hire car, and still have CB killing Madeleine at his place.   This can be achieved by having a cadaver being placed in the apartment and CB abducting Madeleine from the street i.e. a complex situation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 17, 2020, 01:25:58 PM
See if you can get the UK police to say the same.   I don't think they will.  They may say  something like "we won't comment on an active investigation".

The UK police are used to dealing with the disgraceful UK media. I get the impression that the Germans are new to the experience.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 01:35:03 PM
The UK police are used to dealing with the disgraceful UK media. I get the impression that the Germans are new to the experience.

disgraceful UK media...in your opinion..

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 17, 2020, 02:20:42 PM
I'm saying you can have the cadaver dogs alerting to cadaver odour in the McCann's apartment and hire car, and still have CB killing Madeleine at his place.   This can be achieved by having a cadaver being placed in the apartment and CB abducting Madeleine from the street i.e. a complex situation.
Complex indeed, although not without its merits.
Certainly the dogs didn't get it wrong, they rarely do and, backed by cutting edge DNA analysis of the fluids, well your theory certainly holds some weight.
Having said that, finding a different cadaver on a quiet holiday resort, then placing said cadaver in the apartment temporarily for an indeterminate length of time, then subsequently removing the now defiled dead person and successfully disposing of it, would provide a challenge, and would almost certainly require a receptacle larger than a tennis bag and at least two people to manually handle (given current Manual Handling Reg 1992 - although I doubt adherence to any UK Health and Safety legislation would be upper most in their minds when they've got at least one cadaver to shift about, more likely two in this scenario).
This also doesn't explain, if the McCann's didn't 'do away' with poor wee Maddie's body, why would they feel the need to import a deceased person and leave forensic trace.....hang on.......I'm thinking this out.......so......MM meets with a terrible accident and, being DNA savvy, the parents know that they would either need to forensically clean as best they could, or contaminate the residue. So, they spirit MM away in the manner that we've all agreed upon universally, then either run someone over or cruise around looking for someone dead, find an unwilling and unwitting participant, drag them through the patio door (or through the open window, although, again, manual handling would prove a challenge), place the cadaver in various poses around the apartment (like [Name removed] Bueller's Day Off - classic movie), then drag said carcass out in reverse and dump it in a....bin......or......car.....or.......furnace. A furnace. Where locally has a furnace? A furnace manufacturer?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 17, 2020, 02:29:08 PM
I'm saying you can have the cadaver dogs alerting to cadaver odour in the McCann's apartment and hire car, and still have CB killing Madeleine at his place.   This can be achieved by having a cadaver being placed in the apartment and CB abducting Madeleine from the street i.e. a complex situation.

The existence of a cadaver is not a requirement for a cadaver dog to alert.  In Haute de la Garennne for example the Victim Recovery Dog alerted to a tissue used to clean up after a sexual encounter.  Keela the CSI dog also alerted. But there was no cadaver; the dogs had alerted to semen and blood.

Amaral also claimed in his book that the VRD sniffed out a body buried under concrete at the same location.  Amaral was entirely wrong ... no deaths were associated with Haute de la Garenne.
 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 02:31:13 PM
Complex indeed, although not without its merits.
Certainly the dogs didn't get it wrong, they rarely do and, backed by cutting edge DNA analysis of the fluids, well your theory certainly holds some weight.
Having said that, finding a different cadaver on a quiet holiday resort, then placing said cadaver in the apartment temporarily for an indeterminate length of time, then subsequently removing the now defiled dead person and successfully disposing of it, would provide a challenge, and would almost certainly require a receptacle larger than a tennis bag and at least two people to manually handle (given current Manual Handling Reg 1992 - although I doubt adherence to any UK Health and Safety legislation would be upper most in their minds when they've got at least one cadaver to shift about, more likely two in this scenario).
This also doesn't explain, if the McCann's didn't 'do away' with poor wee Maddie's body, why would they feel the need to import a deceased person and leave forensic trace.....hang on.......I'm thinking this out.......so......MM meets with a terrible accident and, being DNA savvy, the parents know that they would either need to forensically clean as best they could, or contaminate the residue. So, they spirit MM away in the manner that we've all agreed upon universally, then either run someone over or cruise around looking for someone dead, find an unwilling and unwitting participant, drag them through the patio door (or through the open window, although, again, manual handling would prove a challenge), place the cadaver in various poses around the apartment (like [Name removed] Bueller's Day Off - classic movie), then drag said carcass out in reverse and dump it in a....bin......or......car.....or.......furnace. A furnace. Where locally has a furnace? A furnace manufacturer?

Uppermost is one word
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on September 17, 2020, 05:49:11 PM
The existence of a cadaver is not a requirement for a cadaver dog to alert.  In Haute de la Garennne for example the Victim Recovery Dog alerted to a tissue used to clean up after a sexual encounter.  Keela the CSI dog also alerted. But there was no cadaver; the dogs had alerted to semen and blood.

Amaral also claimed in his book that the VRD sniffed out a body buried under concrete at the same location.  Amaral was entirely wrong ... no deaths were associated with Haute de la Garenne.

The cadaver dog alerted to their clothes and Keela the blood dog did not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 17, 2020, 06:36:39 PM
The existence of a cadaver is not a requirement for a cadaver dog to alert.  In Haute de la Garennne for example the Victim Recovery Dog alerted to a tissue used to clean up after a sexual encounter.  Keela the CSI dog also alerted. But there was no cadaver; the dogs had alerted to semen and blood.

Amaral also claimed in his book that the VRD sniffed out a body buried under concrete at the same location.  Amaral was entirely wrong ... no deaths were associated with Haute de la Garenne.

The dogs alerted to blood, not semen.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 07:18:34 PM
disgraceful UK media...in your opinion..
Could the word disgraceful be anything other than opinion.  Even if it was the result of a survey it might just be the majority opinion. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2020, 07:22:51 PM
Could the word disgraceful be anything other than opinion.  Even if it was the result of a survey it might just be the majority opinion.

It was presented as fact...its opinion.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 07:28:38 PM
Complex indeed, although not without its merits.
Certainly the dogs didn't get it wrong, they rarely do and, backed by cutting edge DNA analysis of the fluids, well your theory certainly holds some weight.
Having said that, finding a different cadaver on a quiet holiday resort, then placing said cadaver in the apartment temporarily for an indeterminate length of time, then subsequently removing the now defiled dead person and successfully disposing of it, would provide a challenge, and would almost certainly require a receptacle larger than a tennis bag and at least two people to manually handle (given current Manual Handling Reg 1992 - although I doubt adherence to any UK Health and Safety legislation would be upper most in their minds when they've got at least one cadaver to shift about, more likely two in this scenario).
This also doesn't explain, if the McCann's didn't 'do away' with poor wee Maddie's body, why would they feel the need to import a deceased person and leave forensic trace.....hang on.......I'm thinking this out.......so......MM meets with a terrible accident and, being DNA savvy, the parents know that they would either need to forensically clean as best they could, or contaminate the residue. So, they spirit MM away in the manner that we've all agreed upon universally, then either run someone over or cruise around looking for someone dead, find an unwilling and unwitting participant, drag them through the patio door (or through the open window, although, again, manual handling would prove a challenge), place the cadaver in various poses around the apartment (like [Name removed] Bueller's Day Off - classic movie), then drag said carcass out in reverse and dump it in a....bin......or......car.....or.......furnace. A furnace. Where locally has a furnace? A furnace manufacturer?
If the parents were involved they would be mastermind material.   In my theory These things are done by others interfering in their lives.
I see there were other holiday makers who were annoyed by the Tapas 9 hogging the bookings at the Tapas Restaurant.  Could they have played a part?   Were the management of the Ocean Club under pressure to do something about it?  John Hill visited Jez Wilkins' apartment for some unexplained reason, a visit he doesn't admit to in his own statement.
Who had walk-in chillers and freezers on hand?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 07:35:16 PM
The existence of a cadaver is not a requirement for a cadaver dog to alert.  In Haute de la Garennne for example the Victim Recovery Dog alerted to a tissue used to clean up after a sexual encounter.  Keela the CSI dog also alerted. But there was no cadaver; the dogs had alerted to semen and blood.

Amaral also claimed in his book that the VRD sniffed out a body buried under concrete at the same location.  Amaral was entirely wrong ... no deaths were associated with Haute de la Garenne.
That is true in the minority of cadaver dog cases.  So there are unexplained cases, but in the majority when the dog alerts, particularly in multiple places, one needs to consider the prior presence of a cadaver.  There is no reason to suspect this cadaver was Madeleine.  In fact the DNA results tend to suggest it wasn't her for sure.

But now we have HCW saying he has evidence linking CB to her death.   I was hoping Madeleine was still alive somewhere. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 07:37:34 PM
It was presented as fact...its opinion.
That is disgraceful.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on September 17, 2020, 08:38:00 PM
The dogs alerted to blood, not semen.
Still, the sample collected from the bed by the window indicated semen or saliva?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2020, 09:23:28 PM
Still, the sample collected from the bed by the window indicated semen or saliva?
I wasn't aware of a sample from the bed by the window.   Are you thinking of the sample taken from the cover of Madeleine's bed?
PS my error.  Sample was from the bed cover by the window.  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7862.msg435045#msg435045
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 17, 2020, 09:25:52 PM
Could the word disgraceful be anything other than opinion.  Even if it was the result of a survey it might just be the majority opinion.

Trust in journalists is low, YouGov found the percentage of people who said they trusted journalists a lot/a great deal or a fair amount;

47% BBC News Journalists
41% ITV News Journalists
38% 'Upmarket' newspaper journalists
13% 'mid-market' newspaper journalists
7%   'red top' tabloid newspaper journalists

Around 29% of those polled trusted journalists, with very few trusting those at the lower end of the market.

In another poll YouGov found that confidence in the Police has not fallen below 75% of those polled in 5 years.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/media/articles-reports/2020/04/29/no-trust-media-has-not-collapsed-because-coronavir
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/confidence-in-the-local-police/latest




Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 17, 2020, 10:31:47 PM
The dogs alerted to blood, not semen.
As I said ... "the existence of a cadaver is not a requirement for a cadaver dog to alert.  In Haute de la Garennne for example the Victim Recovery Dog alerted to a tissue used to clean up after a sexual encounter.  Keela the CSI dog also alerted. But there was no cadaver; the dogs had alerted to semen and blood."

It was concluded that the dogs alerted to tissues after sexual activity which usually occurs while participants are alive and well.

Haut de la Garenne
 
OPERATION RECTANGLE SUMMARY REPORT JULY 22 2008

V/T 9 Re-enforced concrete machine gun post and protective trench, personnel shelter attached. Earth and debris removed by hand and plant machinery to allow access.
The forensic strategy was implemented with the following results.

EVRD – positive indication.
SOCO visual – positive.
Blood dog - positive indication.
Visual – positive.
UV – negative (items removed prior to screening).
Quasar - negative.

Positive indications confirmed as being recently deposited tissues used to clean up after sex by unknown persons. Offences not suspected at this stage. Retained as exhibit should there be future reports of offences. There will be no forensic submission at this stage.
----------------------------------
VT / 9 Trench and gun emplacement containing small personnel shelter. Forensic examination revealed recently deposited tissues that appeared to have been used to ‘clean up following sexual intercourse’. It would appear that the shelter had been used as a venue for courting couples. This alert is within the trained parameters of the dog’s repertoire and is a satisfactory explanation of the alert.
https://catalogue.jerseyheritage.org/collection/Details/archive/110390044
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 17, 2020, 11:07:46 PM
Trust in journalists is low, YouGov found the percentage of people who said they trusted journalists a lot/a great deal or a fair amount;

47% BBC News Journalists
41% ITV News Journalists
38% 'Upmarket' newspaper journalists
13% 'mid-market' newspaper journalists
7%   'red top' tabloid newspaper journalists

Around 29% of those polled trusted journalists, with very few trusting those at the lower end of the market.

In another poll YouGov found that confidence in the Police has not fallen below 75% of those polled in 5 years.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/media/articles-reports/2020/04/29/no-trust-media-has-not-collapsed-because-coronavir
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/confidence-in-the-local-police/latest

Trust is a two way street, and it seems trustworthy is not a description journalist Sandra Felgueiras would apply to Amaral anymore, as she tells it in the Netflix documentary ...  “Gonçalo Amaral lied to me”
Why she was astounded by that astonishes me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 18, 2020, 08:01:20 AM
Trust is a two way street, and it seems trustworthy is not a description journalist Sandra Felgueiras would apply to Amaral anymore, as she tells it in the Netflix documentary ...  “Gonçalo Amaral lied to me”
Why she was astounded by that astonishes me.
I think she's lying to us about Snr Dr. Amaral lying to her. Why? Jane Fonda had to hang her hat on something before she vaulted the fence.
In fairness, it's worked. Instead of reporting on the Lagos Chilli Eating Contest, or the remarkable albino goat born on a farm just outside Portimao, she's managed to winkle out a niche 'reporting' her tainted view of the MM case, despite her manifold shortcomings.
Good luck to her.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 18, 2020, 08:04:03 AM
I think she's lying to us about Snr Dr. Amaral lying to her. Why? Jane Fonda had to hang her hat on something before she vaulted the fence.
In fairness, it's worked. Instead of reporting on the Lagos Chilli Eating Contest, or the remarkable albino goat born on a farm just outside Portimao, she's managed to winkle out a niche 'reporting' her tainted view of the MM case, despite her manifold shortcomings.
Good luck to her.

but we know what has been said isnt true...so if he didnt lie to her...who did
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 18, 2020, 08:12:08 AM
but we know what has been said isnt true...so if he didnt lie to her...who did
We don't know what's true or not, whether you think you know or not what you think is true; which we don't know.
She's an opportunist journalist; a flip-flopping hack. Nothing wrong with it, in fact it's an admirable trait, the ability to adapt and reinvent / reposition oneself to suit the zeitgeist. In fact it may even be essential for the gutter press to keep their finger on the pulse and move with the mood.

At least Martin Brunt is old and grizzled enough to smell a rat. He's on to HCW, I could see it in his laconic gaze and furrowed brow - he ain't buying what HCW is hawking, and he subtly made us aware that, mid-interview, he shifted one of his arse cheeks on to the stile, in readiness to hop over, avoiding the puddle of cow filth with a jaunty leap.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 18, 2020, 08:19:44 AM
Of course Gonc lied to her.  He has a track record in lying.  He lied to the world’s media this year by feeding them false information about CB complete with photoshopped pictures.  The man is a menace. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 18, 2020, 11:29:09 AM
The cadaver dog alerted to their clothes and Keela the blood dog did not.

Call that an alert,  I would call it playing,  Eddie picked the clothes up in his mouth,  strange how all the articles were next to each other.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 18, 2020, 11:37:20 AM
Call that an alert,  I would call it playing,  Eddie picked the clothes up in his mouth,  strange how all the articles were next to each other.
To a layman / woman of course it looks like playing. Factor in 25 years of meticulous research, development, training and subsequent successful deployment of the beasts and the nuances are readily apparent.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 18, 2020, 11:51:43 AM
Of course Gonc lied to her.  He has a track record in lying.  He lied to the world’s media this year by feeding them false information about CB complete with photoshopped pictures.  The man is a menace.

  The man is a menace.

Certainly to the mccs and those who despise him on here ..

Seems not to anyone else - I think he has more respect  than the mccs have.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 18, 2020, 11:54:30 AM
  The man is a menace.

Certainly to the mccs and those who despise him on here ..

Seems not to anyone else - I think he has more respect  than the mccs have.

Not from his wife... And she should know him
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 18, 2020, 11:59:48 AM
Call that an alert,  I would call it playing,  Eddie picked the clothes up in his mouth,  strange how all the articles were next to each other.

But there again your not an expert on crime dogs - are you L.

in the search for vital evidence at the scene of a crime. These dogs are especially effective when the actual scene is not known as they can quickly eliminate innocent areas.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 18, 2020, 12:01:41 PM
But there again your not an expert on crime dogs - are you L.

in the search for vital evidence at the scene of a crime. These dogs are especially effective when the actual scene is not known as they can quickly eliminate innocent areas.


There's not a lot to understand... It's, a very simple procedure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 18, 2020, 12:02:25 PM
  The man is a menace.

Certainly to the mccs and those who despise him on here ..

Seems not to anyone else - I think he has more respect  than the mccs have.
You think it's perfectly acceptable to put completely misleading information about the German suspect into the public domain do you?  Can you explain why such actions should be respected and not reviled?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 18, 2020, 12:45:24 PM
You think it's perfectly acceptable to put completely misleading information about the German suspect into the public domain do you?  Can you explain why such actions should be respected and not reviled?

You think it's perfectly acceptable to put completely misleading information about the German suspect into the public domain do you?

Maybe you should explaine ...where  have I put anything misleading against the german suspect in my post below ...off-topic for a start.

Certainly to the mccs and those who despise him on here ..

Seems not to anyone else - I think he has more respect than the mccs have.



I put in reply to....The man is a menace snip from D
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 18, 2020, 01:59:22 PM
You think it's perfectly acceptable to put completely misleading information about the German suspect into the public domain do you?

Maybe you should explaine ...where  have I put anything misleading against the german suspect in my post below ...off-topic for a start.

Certainly to the mccs and those who despise him on here ..

Seems not to anyone else - I think he has more respect than the mccs have.



I put in reply to....The man is a menace snip from D
You really do struggle with comprehension don't you?  I wasn't talking about YOU putting anything misleading about the German suspect into the public domain - why on earth would I accuse you of that?  I was talking about Amaral who sent photoshopped pictures of Bruckner to the press claiming he had long hair at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.  Now tell me why that sort of behaviour should be respected rather than reviled (that's assuming you actually understand what I've written this time!)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 18, 2020, 02:08:15 PM
But there again your not an expert on crime dogs - are you L.

in the search for vital evidence at the scene of a crime. These dogs are especially effective when the actual scene is not known as they can quickly eliminate innocent areas.


What has that got to do with Eddie picking up the items in his mouth?   He was supposed to bark not pick them up.  Plus the items were side by side,  funny that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 18, 2020, 02:29:47 PM
You really do struggle with comprehension don't you?  I wasn't talking about YOU putting anything misleading about the German suspect into the public domain - why on earth would I accuse you of that?  I was talking about Amaral who sent photoshopped pictures of Bruckner to the press claiming he had long hair at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.  Now tell me why that sort of behaviour should be respected rather than reviled (that's assuming you actually understand what I've written this time!)

I struggle comprehension...you knew what you meant  I didn't.

You should have put it more clearer then shouldnt you...who do u think I am mystic meg.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 18, 2020, 02:31:20 PM
What has that got to do with Eddie picking up the items in his mouth?   He was supposed to bark not pick them up.  Plus the items were side by side,  funny that.

how else would he detect one if he didnt pick it up...how would they know -  otherwise what he was barking at.

Barking could have been to anyone of the items as you said they were side by side.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 18, 2020, 02:50:26 PM
I struggle comprehension...you knew what you meant  I didn't.

You should have put it more clearer then shouldnt you...who do u think I am mystic meg.
It shouldn't require Mystic Meg properties to understand who I was referring to.
You wrote:
Quote
The man is a menace.

Certainly to the mccs and those who despise him on here ..

Seems not to anyone else - I think he has more respect  than the mccs have."

You were referencing my comment about Goncalo Amaral obviously.

I replied:

Quote
You think it's perfectly acceptable to put completely misleading information about the German suspect into the public domain do you?  Can you explain why such actions should be respected and not reviled?

Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would have realised I was talking about Amaral and not you, surely?!

Now that that little misunderstanding has been cleared up perhaps you can tell us why Amaral should be respected for putting misleading information into the media and why I am wrong to refer to him as a menace for doing so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 18, 2020, 02:57:00 PM
how else would he detect one if he didnt pick it up...how would they know -  otherwise what he was barking at.

Barking could have been to anyone of the items as you said they were side by side.

If he picks it up he's contaminated it... That's why the police wear gloves
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 18, 2020, 03:47:44 PM
If he picks it up he's contaminated it... That's why the police wear gloves

No more contaminating than barking over it or sniffing at it.

Strange how dogs don't wear gloves or protection on there paws then.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 18, 2020, 03:57:56 PM
No more contaminating than barking over it or sniffing at it.

Strange how dogs don't wear gloves or protection on there paws then.

Good point... Eddie had been in several other apartments... Could have contaminated 5a
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 18, 2020, 04:31:41 PM
Good point... Eddie had been in several other apartments... Could have contaminated 5a

I don't think 5a could be anymore contaminated than the mccs letting 20 + people in there.

Straight after the alleged abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 18, 2020, 04:35:16 PM
I don't think 5a could be anymore contaminated than the mccs letting 20 + people in there.

Straight after the alleged abduction.

Then there were the police dropping their cigarettte ash all over the palce. Im of the opinion that the cadaver scent could well have been the result of the portuguese police contaminations. Has it ever been checked taht any officer had  contact with a cadaver...police do investiagte deaths
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 18, 2020, 05:16:29 PM
Then there were the police dropping their cigarettte ash all over the palce. Im of the opinion that the cadaver scent could well have been the result of the portuguese police contaminations. Has it ever been checked taht any officer had  contact with a cadaver...police do investiagte deaths
What stops a cadaver dog contaminating acrime scene with cadaver if they are trained in a bone yard for example? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 18, 2020, 06:31:06 PM
I don't think 5a could be anymore contaminated than the mccs letting 20 + people in there.

Straight after the alleged abduction.

I take it you do know that the apartment had been let out to other holidaying families between the McCanns leaving it and the dogs being let loose in it months later?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 18, 2020, 07:32:13 PM
I love the smell of impotent rage in the evening.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on September 18, 2020, 09:25:13 PM
I love the smell of impotent rage in the evening.
Is that a smell you often experience?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on September 18, 2020, 09:36:49 PM
11.30pm: An initial inspection by the human blood detecting dog, began with the clothing packed in the box bearing the notation: "Living room." At 11.40pm, the inspection was completed without the dog showing anything abnormal.

11.41: The canine human remains recovery dog started its inspection and "marked" various clothes. The inspection was completed at 11.52pm. The clothes were returned to their box for later use.


https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 18, 2020, 10:13:11 PM
Is that a smell you often experience?
Maybe her drains are blocked?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 18, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
Is that a smell you often experience?
It's an allusion to the famous line in the film Apocalypse Now, when Robert Duvall, as Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore, utters the immortal words, 'I love the smell of napalm in the morning'.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 18, 2020, 10:35:26 PM
It's an allusion to the famous line in the film Apocalypse Now, when Robert Duvall, as Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore, utters the immortal words, 'I love the smell of napalm in the morning'.
You don’t say?!  Who knew?!  Fancy that!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 19, 2020, 10:06:48 AM
He also rebutted claims made by disgraced former police officer Goncalo Amaral, who met with Brueckner's defence lawyer Friedrich Fulscher last week in Portugal, that the German was being 'scapegoated.'

The controversial ex-cop, who was removed from the initial Madeleine McCann investigation for criticising British police, is involved in an ongoing legal battle with her parents Kate and Gerry over his insistence she died by accident in their apartment and they covered it up.

He told the RTP channel's Sexta as 9 show: 'I know this former inspector speaks a lot and comments on our work.

'We're not going to get into a war of words. All I will say is that we have carried out a very serious investigation and there is no indication whatsoever Madeleine McCann's parents are linked to her disappearance.

'On the other hand we have a lot of evidence pointing to Christian B killing her.

'Goncalo Amaral knows how he reaches his conclusions and that's not up to us to judge.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8749531/Prosecutor-investigating-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance-says-suggests-alive.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2020, 11:13:44 AM
He also rebutted claims made by disgraced former police officer Goncalo Amaral, who met with Brueckner's defence lawyer Friedrich Fulscher last week in Portugal, that the German was being 'scapegoated.'

The controversial ex-cop, who was removed from the initial Madeleine McCann investigation for criticising British police, is involved in an ongoing legal battle with her parents Kate and Gerry over his insistence she died by accident in their apartment and they covered it up.

He told the RTP channel's Sexta as 9 show: 'I know this former inspector speaks a lot and comments on our work.

'We're not going to get into a war of words. All I will say is that we have carried out a very serious investigation and there is no indication whatsoever Madeleine McCann's parents are linked to her disappearance.

'On the other hand we have a lot of evidence pointing to Christian B killing her.

'Goncalo Amaral knows how he reaches his conclusions and that's not up to us to judge.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8749531/Prosecutor-investigating-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance-says-suggests-alive.html

Has no-one told the Daily Mail that Amaral's legal battle with the McCanns ended in January 2017?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 11:29:02 AM
Has no-one told the Daily Mail that Amaral's legal battle with the McCanns ended in January 2017?

in your opinion...imo it hasnt. Amaral will be directly affected by what happens at teh ECHR
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 19, 2020, 11:38:22 AM
Is that a smell you often experience?

Absolutely, especially here.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 19, 2020, 11:41:18 AM
in your opinion...imo it hasnt. Amaral will be directly affected by what happens at teh ECHR

No he won’t.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 19, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
No he won’t.
Thick skinned.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2020, 11:58:41 AM
in your opinion...imo it hasnt. Amaral will be directly affected by what happens at teh ECHR

Amaral isn't involved in an ongoing legal battle with the McCanns regardless of what you and the Daily Mail say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 19, 2020, 12:00:58 PM
in your opinion...imo it hasnt. Amaral will be directly affected by what happens at teh ECHR

Aww, not that old chestnut again....its got to get there first.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 12:23:15 PM
Amaral isn't involved in an ongoing legal battle with the McCanns regardless of what you and the Daily Mail say.
Amaral may well be directly affected by what happens... It's possible a new writ could be issued... That's ongoing
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 12:26:33 PM
Aww, not that old chestnut again....its got to get there first.

It's, already there
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 19, 2020, 12:41:03 PM
It's, already there

the outcome isn't ...so why do you keep jumping the gun.

It is not going to make one bit of difference to GA.

Its a sin the way they squandered the fund money...and seems they still owe money to him.


The parents of missing Madeleine McCann are still being chased for hefty legal fees nearly a decade after the start of their court battle against the ex-police chief who has attacked them again in a new documentary.

Kate and Gerry McCann are about to be told by a Lisbon court they still owe thousands of pounds from their libel fight against Goncalo Amaral.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2020, 12:41:23 PM
Amaral may well be directly affected by what happens... It's possible a new writ could be issued... That's ongoing

You are discussing future possibilities, I'm discussing present facts. Amaral is involved in no legal battle with the McCanns. His battle ended in 2017 when the McCann's accusations against him were dismissed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 12:51:18 PM
You are discussing future possibilities, I'm discussing present facts. Amaral is involved in no legal battle with the McCanns. His battle ended in 2017 when the McCann's accusations against him were dismissed.

He isn't out of the woods yet it's ongoing
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 12:53:12 PM
the outcome isn't ...so why do you keep jumping the gun.

It is not going to make one bit of difference to GA.

Its a sin the way they squandered the fund money...and seems they still owe money to him.


The parents of missing Madeleine McCann are still being chased for hefty legal fees nearly a decade after the start of their court battle against the ex-police chief who has attacked them again in a new documentary.

Kate and Gerry McCann are about to be told by a Lisbon court they still owe thousands of pounds from their libel fight against Goncalo Amaral.


A pro McCann verdict could make a lot of difference to amaral
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 01:10:20 PM
You are discussing future possibilities, I'm discussing present facts. Amaral is involved in no legal battle with the McCanns. His battle ended in 2017 when the McCann's accusations against him were dismissed.

Are you suggesting that a victory at the ECH R which ruled amarals book was a violation of the mccanns human rights... Which would essentially  mean the book was banned and amaral gagged. Are you suggesting that would have no effect on amaral
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 19, 2020, 01:53:06 PM
A pro McCann verdict could make a lot of difference to amaral

You are relying on nothing more than wishful thinking regarding GA  CB.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 02:07:28 PM
You are relying on nothing more than wishful thinking regarding GA  CB.

First.. That's your opinion.. So where's the imo

Second... You are wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 19, 2020, 02:16:31 PM
Has no-one told the Daily Mail that Amaral's legal battle with the McCanns ended in January 2017?

I don't think Amaral has quite grasped how malicious a figure he is presenting as he still continues to indulge himself in extraordinary public displays of spite and prejudice against Madeleine's parents.

He responded: 'It can't be him' when he was shown a photo of Ney before adding in a false and vile jibe at Madeleine McCann's father: 'I'll say something else, the kidnapper is similar, very similar, to Gerry McCann' [/color]
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7741505/Ex-Portuguese-police-chief-claims-leading-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-mystery-German-paedophile.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 19, 2020, 02:16:36 PM
Let this sink in Gonc Fans:

'I know this former inspector speaks a lot and comments on our work.

'We're not going to get into a war of words. All I will say is that we have carried out a very serious investigation and there is no indication whatsoever Madeleine McCann's parents are linked to her disappearance.

'On the other hand we have a lot of evidence pointing to Christian B killing her.

'Goncalo Amaral knows how he reaches his conclusions and that's not up to us to judge.'
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2020, 02:17:08 PM
Are you suggesting that a victory at the ECH R which ruled amarals book was a violation of the mccanns human rights... Which would essentially  mean the book was banned and amaral gagged. Are you suggesting that would have no effect on amaral

I think you need to read my posts again. I'm speaking of the situation today, which is that there's no ongoing legal battle between the McCanns and Amaral. You are speculating about the future, which is unknown.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 02:20:10 PM
I think you need to read my posts again. I'm speaking of the situation today, which is that there's no ongoing legal battle between the McCanns and Amaral. You are speculating about the future, which is unknown.
I'm not speculating... The case against amarals theory is on-going at the, ECHR
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 19, 2020, 02:33:32 PM
in your opinion...imo it hasnt. Amaral will be directly affected by what happens at teh ECHR

I think he knows this perfectly well.  In my opinion he has been allowed to run roughshod over decency in his malicious campaign against Madeleine's parents.  I do not think using the same technique against the German investigation is going to be allowed the same easy ride.

I think more people in Portugal are beginning to wise up to the incompetence of Amaral and his team as the Germans are showing how it should be done by real professionals. 

For example, Amaral affirmed Brueckner was eliminated from the enquiry in 2007.

It is inconceivable that having now heard Brueckner's offences up till that time that Portuguese parents aren't wondering why the Judicial Police saw fit to allow him to continue to walk amongst their children mainly I think because the lead investigator couldn't see past his prejudices either then or now to investigate alternatives.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 19, 2020, 02:43:44 PM
Amaral isn't involved in an ongoing legal battle with the McCanns regardless of what you and the Daily Mail say.

Officially Portugal is on trial.  But I wouldn't delude myself were I you into not being aware that is only as a direct result of Amaral's conduct.

In my opinion the McCanns have a lot more on their plate at the moment than the outcome of the European judgement.

But in my opinion it will be of paramount importance to Amaral.  Not make or break because I think that process is already well underway ~ but if Portugal is found to have breached the McCann's human rights it will be a life changing judgement for Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 02:53:55 PM
Amaral isn't involved in an ongoing legal battle with the McCanns regardless of what you and the Daily Mail say.

LOL....have you forgotten making this post..

If, by some chance, the ECHR finds that Portugal has breached the McCann's human rights they will have achieved more than if they had defeated Amaral. They will have discredited not just him, but his entire country.

it appears you have

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 04:05:44 PM

This is a disgrace.  Lies are being perpetuated on a daily basis by Sceptics and there is no longer any point in trying to Moderate as I will undoubtedly be overruled.

Goading is rife and any horrible thing being said about The McCanns is just Free Speach, while The Perjurer, Liar, Debtor and Adulterer remains feted.

Never in the history of Police Investigations in Europe has there been such twisted logic to favour the cause of a fame hungry moron who couldn't detect his way out of a paper bag unless it suited him.

So it's open season with me.  And I must say that it is all going very well.  So do carry on.  The Sceptics only further my cause.  I don't need to do anything.

This Comment will no doubt disappear shortly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on September 19, 2020, 04:49:09 PM
This is a disgrace.  Lies are being perpetuated on a daily basis by Sceptics and there is no longer any point in trying to Moderate as I will undoubtedly be overruled.

Goading is rife and any horrible thing being said about The McCanns is just Free Speach, while The Perjurer, Liar, Debtor and Adulterer remains feted.

Never in the history of Police Investigations in Europe has there been such twisted logic to favour the cause of a fame hungry moron who couldn't detect his way out of a paper bag unless it suited him.

So it's open season with me.  And I must say that it is all going very well.  So do carry on.  The Sceptics only further my cause.  I don't need to do anything.

This Comment will no doubt disappear shortly.

Well said Elli.

We need a few more eye opening comments like Ellies


Sometimes I feel it is futile to post because my post vanishes, gets truncated to change its meaning, or gets the substitution treatment.     i.e. A completely new version of the cite I was using being substituted, giving false information

And then, of course we get the treatment that alters the photos and articles that we use as cites

Don't know who is doing it, but I can make educated guesses.



Of course if SY are monitoring this forum as some have suggested, then someone / some people are going to get a knock on the door and a nasty surprise for falsification of evidence.  Interfering with the case per "The judgement of the people" being maliciously affected by false info IMO

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 05:04:57 PM
Well said Elli.

We need a few more eye opening comments like Ellies


Sometimes I feel it is futile to post because my post vanishes, gets truncated to change its meaning, or gets the substitution treatment.     i.e. A completely new version of the cite I was using being substituted, giving false information

And then, of course we get the treatment that alters the photos and articles that we use as cites

Don't know who is doing it, but I can make educated guesses.



Of course if SY are monitoring this forum as some have suggested, then someone / some people are going to get a knock on the door and a nasty surprise for falsification of evidence.  Interfering with the case per "The judgement of the people" being maliciously affected by false info IMO

I don't know, Sadie.  I am perhaps not quite so concerned as you are.  But I do know that often your comments disappear for reasons that make no sense to me.  After all, you have just as much right to Free Speach as everyone else.  Although it seems not.  Only Sceptics appear to have this right.  So everything is fast going downhill.

This Forum is rapidly ceasing to be a place to debate.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 19, 2020, 05:50:35 PM
I don't think Amaral has quite grasped how malicious a figure he is presenting as he still continues to indulge himself in extraordinary public displays of spite and prejudice against Madeleine's parents.

  • Goncalo Amaral also made false slur against the missing youngster's dad Gerry
He responded: 'It can't be him' when he was shown a photo of Ney before adding in a false and vile jibe at Madeleine McCann's father: 'I'll say something else, the kidnapper is similar, very similar, to Gerry McCann' [/color]
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7741505/Ex-Portuguese-police-chief-claims-leading-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-mystery-German-paedophile.html

It interesting how the tabloids manage to make accusations while tut tutting at those accusations. Rather clever.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 19, 2020, 06:18:05 PM
Jesus wept.  Sceptics still believe the tabs are subtly trying to communicate to their readers that they think the parents dunnit.  More evidence of complete delusion on their part imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2020, 06:36:05 PM
Officially Portugal is on trial.  But I wouldn't delude myself were I you into not being aware that is only as a direct result of Amaral's conduct.

In my opinion the McCanns have a lot more on their plate at the moment than the outcome of the European judgement.

But in my opinion it will be of paramount importance to Amaral.  Not make or break because I think that process is already well underway ~ but if Portugal is found to have breached the McCann's human rights it will be a life changing judgement for Amaral.

Nobody is on trial at the moment; an application was lodged in July 2017 by the McCanns allegedly complaining that Portugal has breached their human rights. The complaint is 'requiring a decision', and has been since August 2017.





 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 07:02:20 PM
Jesus wept.  Sceptics still believe the tabs are subtly trying to communicate to their readers that they think the parents dunnit.  More evidence of complete delusion on their part imo.

Not only in your opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 19, 2020, 07:19:06 PM
Not only in your opinion.

The tabloids don’t care either way but it does make the narrative more juicy.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 07:21:25 PM
Nobody is on trial at the moment; an application was lodged in July 2017 by the McCanns allegedly complaining that Portugal has breached their human rights. The complaint is 'requiring a decision', and has been since August 2017.





 

The complaint is requiring a decision.  .so it's ongoing
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2020, 07:50:22 PM
The complaint is requiring a decision.  .so it's ongoing

Not against Amaral it isn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 07:52:16 PM
Not against Amaral it isn't.

It involves amaral and will affect amaral.. As you have clearly stated
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 19, 2020, 07:53:12 PM
It involves amaral and will affect amaral.. As you have clearly stated

No it won’t.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 07:55:13 PM
No it won’t.

Gunit has said a judgement in favour of the McCanns will discredit amaral.

It would almost certainly  result in his book being banned and he himself being gagged...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 19, 2020, 08:02:42 PM
Gunit has said a judgement in favour of the McCanns will discredit amaral.

It would almost certainly  result in his book being banned and he himself being gagged...

No it won’t.

Only another case brought by the parents would do that....and I’m not sure even they’ll have the stomach, or money, for that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on September 19, 2020, 08:14:13 PM
It involves amaral and will affect amaral.. As you have clearly stated

Err, McCann and Healey V Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 08:14:38 PM
No it won’t.

Only another case brought by the parents would do that....and I’m not sure even they’ll have the stomach, or money, for that.

If they are armed with an ECHR judgement it will be a very easy case for them and total humiliation for GA one newspaper report has already suggested they are raedy to do it.....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 08:16:07 PM
Err, McCann and Healey V Portugal.

A succes at teh ECHR could mean the book being banned and amaral gagged...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 08:18:15 PM
The tabloids don’t care either way but it does make the narrative more juicy.

How very sad.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2020, 08:30:24 PM
Gunit has said a judgement in favour of the McCanns will discredit amaral.

It would almost certainly  result in his book being banned and he himself being gagged...

How flattering. My posts are remembered and quoted long after being posted. I also, of course, said I thought it was very unlikely that the ECHR would agree with the McCanns, but that's not quoted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 08:34:15 PM
How flattering. My posts are remembered and quoted long after being posted. I also, of course, said I thought it was very unlikely that the ECHR would agree with the McCanns, but that's not quoted.

Dont flatter yourself I  have a good memory...so having claimed today the judgement is nothing to do with amaral you acceot it will not just discredit him...but his whole country
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2020, 08:39:59 PM
Dont flatter yourself I  have a good memory...so having claimed today the judgement is nothing to do with amaral you acceot it will not just discredit him...but his whole country

Remember this then. I have changed my mind and withdraw the opinion you keep quoting.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 19, 2020, 08:40:27 PM
If they are armed with an ECHR judgement it will be a very easy case for them and total humiliation for GA one newspaper report has already suggested they are raedy to do it.....

The case has been judged in the highest court in the land. There is no further they can go...in Portugal.

Even if...and it’s a big if...their case is accepted by the ECHR, and the parents win it will make not a scintilla of difference to the original case, that case is finished.

I suppose there is a chance that the parents could take Amaral to court for anything defamatory he has said after the SC’s decision but as I said I’m not sure whether they have the stomach or money for the fight.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 19, 2020, 09:01:47 PM
Remember this then. I have changed my mind and withdraw the opinion you keep quoting.

So you now withdraw the statement you made previously...youve changed your mind. Perhaps you might change it again tomorrow
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 09:13:10 PM
The case has been judged in the highest court in the land. There is no further they can go...in Portugal.

Even if...and it’s a big if...their case is accepted by the ECHR, and the parents win it will make not a scintilla of difference to the original case, that case is finished.

I suppose there is a chance that the parents could take Amaral to court for anything defamatory he has said after the SC’s decision but as I said I’m not sure whether they have the stomach or money for the fight.

I wouldn't bother if I were them.  Portugal failed The McCanns miserably and we all know that.  The Judicial System of Portugal was archaic.  They employed absolute morons who would rather beat a confession out of suspects than actually find out what happened to any child.

And of course, it was always the same morons.  Amaral knew where to go and whom to call upon.

My only hope is that the disappearance of Madeleine has pulled them up short.  Not that I think it will make any difference to the mind set.

Portugal is a Third World Country and it will take a minute or twenty.  It isn't going to happen anytime soon.  Not even now.

I spent some lovely holidays in Portugal, once during one of their Revolutions, probably the second.  But I don't scare easily.  Wot?  You and whose army, when they got a bit shirty with me.  Sorry about that.  Queen and Country.  I have always known who I am.  No one threatens me.

This is all so sad.  The Hierarchy were corrupt and probably still are.  This will only be exposed by The Court of Human Rights.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2020, 09:55:08 PM
So you now withdraw the statement you made previously...youve changed your mind. Perhaps you might change it again tomorrow

Perhaps I will. People do it all the time. Those who attacked Amaral for saying Madeleine McCann was dead are supporting Wolters who says the same.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 19, 2020, 09:58:21 PM
So you now withdraw the statement you made previously...youve changed your mind. Perhaps you might change it again tomorrow
That is a woman's perogative.  - The right to change her mind.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 10:36:59 PM
Perhaps I will. People do it all the time. Those who attacked Amaral for saying Madeleine McCann was dead are supporting Wolters who says the same.

But for entirely different reasons.  And at the hands of a different person.  Do you think that we are all stupid?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 19, 2020, 10:43:19 PM
Remember this then. I have changed my mind and withdraw the opinion you keep quoting.
@)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 10:47:50 PM
That is a woman's perogative.  - The right to change her mind.

Please try not to be too silly, Rob.  Being Female has got nothing to do with this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 19, 2020, 10:48:57 PM
But for entirely different reasons.  And at the hands of a different person.  Do you think that we are all stupid?

I don’t think it matters. Madeleine seems entirely disposable if it saves her parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2020, 10:56:10 PM
But for entirely different reasons.  And at the hands of a different person.  Do you think that we are all stupid?

But according to her parents saying Madeleine is dead harms the search for her whoever says it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 19, 2020, 11:00:25 PM
Perhaps I will. People do it all the time. Those who attacked Amaral for saying Madeleine McCann was dead are supporting Wolters who says the same.
In my opinion that is a superficial assessment which reaches a correspondingly shallow and incorrect conclusion.

Amaral acted without a shred of supporting evidence and by following entirely the wrong personal theory, prejudiced the investigation into what happened to Madeleine as a result.  For example Amaral is defending apparently overlooking individuals who fitted a profile of child abuser such as Brueckner.

The Germans have followed the evidence uncompromised by personal prejudice or vendetta which has unfortunately led them to an evidence based conclusion.
The German professionalism is in direct contrast to the incompetence and in my opinion the duplicity of Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 11:03:15 PM
I don’t think it matters. Madeleine seems entirely disposable if it saves her parents.

That is the most nasty thing that you have ever said.  And I don't believe that you meant that.  In fact I am sure that you didn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 11:05:55 PM
But according to her parents saying Madeleine is dead harms the search for her whoever says it.

Of course it does.  I personally don't know.  Do you want Madeleine to be dead?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 19, 2020, 11:06:30 PM
I don’t think it matters. Madeleine seems entirely disposable if it saves her parents.

Of course you think it matters.
If it didn't why have you spent the last thirteen+ years ensuring you post as prominently as you can about it.

In my opinion your post deriding Madeleine is proof positive of something I can only speculate pejoratively about but to which you will know the answer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 11:09:59 PM
Of course you think it matters.
If it didn't why have you spent the last thirteen+ years ensuring you post as prominently as you can about it.

In my opinion your post deriding Madeleine is proof positive of something I can only speculate pejoratively about but to which you will know the answer.

Tis all in the mind of some unfortunate people who have nothing better to do than hate.  This is really sad.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 19, 2020, 11:11:08 PM
But according to her parents saying Madeleine is dead harms the search for her whoever says it.

You are thirteen+ years too late with that one regarding a little girl who was looked for peremptorily for hours and at the most days, before Amaral started his predatory search for scapegoats throwing Madeleine to the wolves as a result.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 19, 2020, 11:15:48 PM
That is the most nasty thing that you have ever said.  And I don't believe that you meant that.  In fact I am sure that you didn't.

Sorry to disagree Eleanor.  But I think it is entirely in keeping with the context of most of the posts made by this respected member.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 19, 2020, 11:20:54 PM
That is the most nasty thing that you have ever said.  And I don't believe that you meant that.  In fact I am sure that you didn't.
I wouldn’t be so sure personally.  Scoring cheap, nasty points are the stock-in-trade of the long term McCann (and their supporters) Basher.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 11:23:38 PM
Sorry to disagree Eleanor.  But I think it is entirely in keeping with the context of most of the posts made by this respected member.

Oh Dear.  I so wanted it to be different.  So I will go on hoping if you don't mind.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 19, 2020, 11:34:06 PM
Tis all in the mind of some unfortunate people who have nothing better to do than hate.  This is really sad.
I think it is more than sad, I think it is tragic.  But I don't think it could be anything other than a hateful exercise when considering the origin and the originator.

Even yet when the McCann family must be consumed with fear and trepidation for Madeleine, Amaral cannot help himself from taking a sideswipe of hatred and prejudice aimed at her father based as usual on nonsense.  Because that is all Amaral's got.
Amaral is the architect of almost all the lies told - Calpol springs to mind - so based on lies the result couldn't be any different from the origin.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 19, 2020, 11:37:52 PM
That is the most nasty thing that you have ever said.  And I don't believe that you meant that.  In fact I am sure that you didn't.

It’s not the first time I have said it and, while I don’t include you in my statement, I absolutely do mean it.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 19, 2020, 11:38:23 PM
Oh Dear.  I so wanted it to be different.  So I will go on hoping if you don't mind.

Until we see what evidence the Germans are basing their opinion on ... I too continue to hope.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 11:43:12 PM
Do come on.  You must all know me by now.  I never want to blame anyone or believe horrible things about anyone despite having them smacked in my gob.

There's a bit of London for you.  You can take the Londoner out of London, etcetera.  Just remember who I am.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 19, 2020, 11:50:30 PM
It’s not the first time I have said it and, while I don’t include you in my statement, I absolutely do mean it.

That's okay.  So long as you don't include me.  What?

But I do have a very forgiving nature.  So all will be well for you.

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 19, 2020, 11:56:39 PM
Of course you think it matters.
If it didn't why have you spent the last thirteen+ years ensuring you post as prominently as you can about it.

In my opinion your post deriding Madeleine is proof positive of something I can only speculate pejoratively about but to which you will know the answer.

The case fascinates me, that’s why I post. No sinister motive....but of course you know that, really.

And I have never said anything that derides the poor child so don’t try that one. I feel nothing but pity for Madeleine, she has been failed by so many people over the years and nothing would make me happier than the knowledge that this saga had only ever been about her welfare and finding her. Unfortunately that has never been the case.

Perhaps you need to walk away from the forum for a while Brietta to gain some perspective...just a thought ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 20, 2020, 12:15:16 AM
The case fascinates me, that’s why I post. No sinister motive....but of course you know that, really.

And I have never said anything that derides the poor child so don’t try that one. I feel nothing but pity for Madeleine, she has been failed by so many people over the years and nothing would make me happier than the knowledge that this saga had only ever been about her welfare and finding her. Unfortunately that has never been the case.

Perhaps you need to walk away from the forum for a while Brietta to gain some perspective...just a thought ?
I believe Amaral prefers to be an insidiously malign influence but of late has been forced to be openly direct by putting himself recognisably in the firing line which surely signifies that something is going terribly wrong for him.

Perhaps old alliances are withering on the vine for him much as Felgueiras has and at the moment he is having to keep the ball rolling in person.
I get a flavour of that same desperation in your posts of late. 

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 20, 2020, 12:25:59 AM
I believe Amaral prefers to be an insidiously malign influence but of late has been forced to be openly direct by putting himself recognisably in the firing line which surely signifies that something is going terribly wrong for him.

Perhaps old alliances are withering on the vine for him much as Felgueiras has and at the moment he is having to keep the ball rolling in person.
I get a flavour of that same desperation in your posts of late.

Pardon ?

Why would what happens in this case make me in any way desperate? Please think about what you write. Please consider how nonsensical it appears to others. You may be heavily invested in the outcome of this case, please don’t assume that others are.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 20, 2020, 12:27:37 AM
I believe Amaral prefers to be an insidiously malign influence but of late has been forced to be openly direct by putting himself recognisably in the firing line which surely signifies that something is going terribly wrong for him.

Perhaps old alliances are withering on the vine for him much as Felgueiras has and at the moment he is having to keep the ball rolling in person.
I get a flavour of that same desperation in your posts of late.

Sorry.  I thought that Amaral was a dead duck yonks ago.  Have I missed something?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on September 20, 2020, 12:29:39 AM
Sorry.  I thought that Amaral was a dead duck yonks ago.  Have I missed something?

Of course he is. Brietta just seems determined to resurrect him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 20, 2020, 12:38:48 AM
Sorry.  I thought that Amaral was a dead duck yonks ago.  Have I missed something?

He was - is - and will be.  He is just exhibiting a Freddie Krueger type bad smell penchant for hanging around as his current negative interference in the German investigation into Madeleine's disappearance seems to indicate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 20, 2020, 12:49:13 AM
He was - is - and will be.  He is just exhibiting a Freddie Krueger type bad smell penchant for hanging around as his current negative interference in the German investigation into Madeleine's disappearance seems to indicate.

Oh.  You mean that he has lost it.  But I thought we knew that already.  Silly me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 20, 2020, 01:26:28 AM
Please try not to be too silly, Rob.  Being Female has got nothing to do with this.
Isn't that a famous quote?   Hell, listen to this it might bring back some memories!  https://youtu.be/N6n13f5BvC8
"Pearl Bailey - A Womans Prerogative"
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 20, 2020, 08:14:31 AM
Of course it does.  I personally don't know.  Do you want Madeleine to be dead?

I don't want anything. I have always agreed with the Portuguese prosecutor;

to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

I'm just surprised that those who have spent years rejecting the possibilty that she died seem willing to accept it when a German prosecutor says she is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 20, 2020, 08:18:04 AM
I don't want anything. I have always agreed with the Portuguese prosecutor;

to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

I'm just surprised that those who have spent years rejecting the possibilty that she died seem willing to accept it when a German prosecutor says she is.

I've always thought she is far more likely  dead.. I'm fairly sure the McCanns think the same

Has anyone rejected the possibility that she is dead.. I think you are, wrong there
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 20, 2020, 09:13:22 AM
I don't want anything. I have always agreed with the Portuguese prosecutor;

to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

I'm just surprised that those who have spent years rejecting the possibilty that she died seem willing to accept it when a German prosecutor says she is.
You're talking absolute cobblers in my opinion.  Who EXACTLY are you referring to with this comment?  I don't believe you will have an answer, let's see if I'm proved right.... *waits for the tumbleweed to confirm my point*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 20, 2020, 09:17:32 AM
You're talking absolute cobblers in my opinion.  Who EXACTLY are you referring to with this comment?  I don't believe you will have an answer, let's see if I'm proved right.... *waits for the tumbleweed to confirm my point*

absolute cobblers is spot on....even the McCanns have never rejected the possibility of death afaics. the post does demonstrtae a high level of misunderstanding
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 20, 2020, 09:18:07 AM
I've always thought she is far more likely  dead.. I'm fairly sure the McCanns think the same

Has anyone rejected the possibility that she is dead.. I think you are, wrong there

When people say OG are probably aware of her location and are waiting for her to be old enough to consent to a DNA test, or that she's going to be used for breeding, or post pictures of random girls who 'might' be her I take that as rejecting the possibility that she's dead.

Are you saying those posts were made for another reason?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 20, 2020, 09:20:58 AM
When people say OG are probably aware of her location and are waiting for her to be old enough to consent to a DNA test, or that she's going to be used for breeding, or post pictures of random girls who 'might' be her I take that as rejecting the possibility that she's dead.

Are you saying those posts were made for another reason?
Are these same people also saying HCW is right when he says Madeleine is dead?  They seem to be rejecting that exact premise IMO, unless you can show where they have completely contradicted themselves...?  *Waits in vain for cites*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: carlymichelle on September 20, 2020, 09:22:54 AM
When people say OG are probably aware of her location and are waiting for her to be old enough to consent to a DNA test, or that she's going to be used for breeding, or post pictures of random girls who 'might' be her I take that as rejecting the possibility that she's dead.

Are you saying those posts were made for another reason?

i couldnt believe it when i got a post  deleted  for saying  random little girls photos shouldnt be on   here  i know it  wasnt by you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 20, 2020, 09:25:55 AM
When people say OG are probably aware of her location and are waiting for her to be old enough to consent to a DNA test, or that she's going to be used for breeding, or post pictures of random girls who 'might' be her I take that as rejecting the possibility that she's dead.

Are you saying those posts were made for another reason?

Is that two people....and can you confirm that these two people have rejected the possibility of death.

you can take that as rejecting the possibility of death but thats your opinion..not fact. you need to qualify pour post. its getting quite tiresome the way some posters are ignoring forum rules

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 20, 2020, 09:42:13 AM
Is that two people....and can you confirm that these two people have rejected the possibility of death.

you can take that as rejecting the possibility of death but thats your opinion..not fact. you need to qualify pour post. its getting quite tiresome the way some posters are ignoring forum rules

I can confirm that it is my opinion that certain people's posts suggest that they were rejecting the possibility that Madeleine McCann died in 2007. That's why I said "I take that".

Someone with your claimed good memory should be able to remember who posted what, or do you only remember my posts?

Are you accusing me of ignoring forum rules?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 20, 2020, 09:47:32 AM
I can confirm that it is my opinion that certain people's posts suggest that they were rejecting the possibility that Madeleine McCann died in 2007. That's why I said "I take that".

Someone with your claimed good memory should be able to remember who posted what, or do you only remember my posts?

Are you accusing me of ignoring forum rules?

Im accusing you as posting opinion as fact.....you have now corrected it. I remember everyones posts and its only sadie who I think may have rejected the possibility of death...even then im not sure. Certainly I dont know of any other poster who has rejected the possibility of death and i doubt you could name any.

I feel you are perpetuating a myth . A myth that supporters think maddie is still alive ...afaiac...thats just one possibility and imo  avery remote possibility.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 20, 2020, 09:58:18 AM
I can confirm that it is my opinion that certain people's posts suggest that they were rejecting the possibility that Madeleine McCann died in 2007. That's why I said "I take that".

Someone with your claimed good memory should be able to remember who posted what, or do you only remember my posts?

Are you accusing me of ignoring forum rules?
Your post was pure propaganda, posting your opinion as fact, to make out that all McCann supporters are hypocrites when it's clear that at best you were referring to one or two people (Sadie and maybe Eleanor) neither of whom have stated that they accept HCW's premise that Madeleine is definitely dead. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 20, 2020, 10:13:27 AM
What I consider absolutely preposterous is that Amaral's 'solution' to Madeleeine's case is his avowal that her parents on finding her dead in the apartment immediately took steps to remove and dispose of her body.

Complete and utter nonsense.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 20, 2020, 10:52:36 AM
What I consider absolutely preposterous is that Amaral's 'solution' to Madeleeine's case is his avowal that her parents on finding her dead in the apartment immediately took steps to remove and dispose of her body.

Complete and utter nonsense.

Why is it complete and utter nonsense? When children disappear it's often those who are close who are involved rather than strangers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on September 20, 2020, 10:58:31 AM
What I consider absolutely preposterous is that Amaral's 'solution' to Madeleeine's case is his avowal that her parents on finding her dead in the apartment immediately took steps to remove and dispose of her body.

Complete and utter nonsense.
I agree, Brietta. There is also the possibility that Madeleine woke up during the burglary, started crying and Brückner killed her (perhaps accidentally) and took her away. Although this is not what Mr Wolters is thinking and not by any action of her parents. My opinion. Wolters says that Brückner took Madeleine and killed her soon afterwards.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 20, 2020, 11:25:57 AM
Why is it complete and utter nonsense? When children disappear it's often those who are close who are involved rather than strangers.
Because if you use logic you will see that there is no way they had the means or opportunity to dispose of the body, certainly not without help from friends and associates, and that's when it becomes implausible as well as illogical.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 20, 2020, 12:06:15 PM
I agree, Brietta. There is also the possibility that Madeleine woke up during the burglary, started crying and Brückner killed her (perhaps accidentally) and took her away. Although this is not what Mr Wolters is thinking and not by any action of her parents. My opinion. Wolters says that Brückner took Madeleine and killed her soon afterwards.
If we look at this theory with cold eyes, and without the usual 'oooh, but did the McCann's act this way or that, crap', is his subsequent behaviour that of a escalating 'psychopath' as I've seen him described?
I don't think it does. He's going about his usual, criminal, sex case manner. He hasn't taken flight, per se, he's continuing his slipshod, prolific criminal activity of all hues, in several countries, using various vehicles and keeping them  / selling them via legitimate means.
I read he had his teeth done. Quite why he didn't attempt to get that boss eye fixed is beyond me, but his surgery is cosmetic and not that of a man looking to reinvent himself and wholesale change his appearance.
So with all that said, in the teeth of (what became) the largest missing child hunt ever and knowing that he'd have to go to ground immediately, is this the behaviour of Europe's Most Wanted?
Bear in mind this is not a sophisticated man; he's a sex case with no plan apart from sexual gratification and minor league theft. This is the man leaves his DNA at the scene. As thick as a submarine door, yet he evades capture and continues his merry way across Europe, thieving, noncing and growing carrots.

HCW has something on those memory cards, that's plain, but I don't think it's in the context some think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on September 20, 2020, 12:12:09 PM
They can investigate every contact that was made that night e.g. 8pm on 3 May 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 20, 2020, 12:13:53 PM
If we look at this theory with cold eyes, and without the usual 'oooh, but did the McCann's act this way or that, crap', is his subsequent behaviour that of a escalating 'psychopath' as I've seen him described?
I don't think it does. He's going about his usual, criminal, sex case manner. He hasn't taken flight, per se, he's continuing his slipshod, prolific criminal activity of all hues, in several countries, using various vehicles and keeping them  / selling them via legitimate means.
I read he had his teeth done. Quite why he didn't attempt to get that boss eye fixed is beyond me, but his surgery is cosmetic and not that of a man looking to reinvent himself and wholesale change his appearance.
So with all that said, in the teeth of (what became) the largest missing child hunt ever and knowing that he'd have to go to ground immediately, is this the behaviour of Europe's Most Wanted?
Bear in mind this is not a sophisticated man; he's a sex case with no plan apart from sexual gratification and minor league theft. This is the man leaves his DNA at the scene. As thick as a submarine door, yet he evades capture and continues his merry way across Europe, thieving, noncing and growing carrots.

HCW has something on those memory cards, that's plain, but I don't think it's in the context some think.
Very enlightening I'm sure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on September 20, 2020, 12:17:23 PM
Because if you use logic you will see that there is no way they had the means or opportunity to dispose of the body, certainly not without help from friends and associates, and that's when it becomes implausible as well as illogical.

When did the third man get to do it?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 20, 2020, 12:43:46 PM
If we look at this theory with cold eyes, and without the usual 'oooh, but did the McCann's act this way or that, crap', is his subsequent behaviour that of a escalating 'psychopath' as I've seen him described?
I don't think it does. He's going about his usual, criminal, sex case manner. He hasn't taken flight, per se, he's continuing his slipshod, prolific criminal activity of all hues, in several countries, using various vehicles and keeping them  / selling them via legitimate means.
I read he had his teeth done. Quite why he didn't attempt to get that boss eye fixed is beyond me, but his surgery is cosmetic and not that of a man looking to reinvent himself and wholesale change his appearance.
So with all that said, in the teeth of (what became) the largest missing child hunt ever and knowing that he'd have to go to ground immediately, is this the behaviour of Europe's Most Wanted?
Bear in mind this is not a sophisticated man; he's a sex case with no plan apart from sexual gratification and minor league theft. This is the man leaves his DNA at the scene. As thick as a submarine door, yet he evades capture and continues his merry way across Europe, thieving, noncing and growing carrots.

HCW has something on those memory cards, that's plain, but I don't think it's in the context some think.

Initially I thought you were discussing Amaral since this is indeed the Amaral thread and was surprised to find myself in agreement with some of your sentiments.

Then I realised you were off topic as usual and although still deflecting not deflecting as much as usual.

Gonna at least pay lip service to the thread topic under which you post ~ it avoids confusion and Amaral being associated with character traits not his but someone else's.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 20, 2020, 12:47:11 PM
When did the third man get to do it?


Hmmmm ... I'm sure that must be relevant to something but I think you may have posted on the wrong thread or perhaps even the wrong forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 20, 2020, 12:52:03 PM
What I consider absolutely preposterous is that Amaral's 'solution' to Madeleeine's case is his avowal that her parents on finding her dead in the apartment immediately took steps to remove and dispose of her body.

Complete and utter nonsense.

Maybe nonsence to you...but not to a lot of other people.

Imo it is what happened although I have always thought disposed of sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 20, 2020, 12:58:04 PM
Maybe nonsence to you...but not to a lot of other people.

Imo it is what happened although I have always thought disposed of sooner rather than later.

Its what the investigation thinks thats important...and they agree with an abduction and the parents not involved
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 20, 2020, 01:11:52 PM
Its what the investigation thinks thats important...and they agree with an abduction and the parents not involved

"Well, the first investigation believed otherwise before political interference.


 The processes were Archived Due to political  reasons this despite the understanding of the Portuguese and British investigators that there was a death and concealment of the cadaver"
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 20, 2020, 01:19:46 PM
"Well, the first investigation believed otherwise before political interference.


 The processes were Archived Due to political  reasons this despite the understanding of the Portuguese and British investigators that there was a death and concealment of the cadaver"


the first investigation didnt understand the evidence and failed to pick up CB...who it looks like is the guilty party in the investigators opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 20, 2020, 01:25:18 PM
Its what the investigation thinks thats important...and they agree with an abduction and the parents not involved

Which investigation is that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 20, 2020, 01:27:26 PM
Which investigation is that?
There are two currently under way - one is a German investigation in which CB is the prime suspect, the other is called Operation Grange.  Both investigations subsccribe to the view that the McCanns are innocent and that Madeleine was abducted.  Surprised you had to ask actually but now you know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 20, 2020, 01:28:21 PM
When did the third man get to do it?

another idiotic, off-topic, trolling post.  IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 20, 2020, 01:28:25 PM
Maybe nonsence to you...but not to a lot of other people.

Imo it is what happened although I have always thought disposed of sooner rather than later.

Amaral got it wrong and he has left his fingerprints all over exactly the manner in which he got it wrong.  All in his own words.  And if anything indicates that precisely it is the current investigation into a deviant with a relevant record of criminal offences who Amaral confirms was ignored by investigators on his watch.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 20, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
Initially I thought you were discussing Amaral since this is indeed the Amaral thread and was surprised to find myself in agreement with some of your sentiments.

Then I realised you were off topic as usual and although still deflecting not deflecting as much as usual.

Gonna at least pay lip service to the thread topic under which you post ~ it avoids confusion and Amaral being associated with character traits not his but someone else's.
As a moderator you should move it, yer wee sausage yer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 20, 2020, 01:29:52 PM
As a moderator you should move it, yer wee sausage yer.
I got a warning for using the term "silly sausage" - I trust the same will apply to you, though somehow I doubt it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 20, 2020, 01:31:26 PM
As a moderator you should move it, yer wee sausage yer.

Why ???  Haven't you ever heard of freedom of expression.  Although I'm not too sure if calling a mod a sausage is covered by that too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 20, 2020, 01:35:29 PM
Why ???  Haven't you ever heard of freedom of expression.  Although I'm not too sure if calling a mod a sausage is covered by that too.
It is, I checked.
As a moderator don't you have the ability to move posts and do general housekeeping? Serious question.
I can't move the post, but you could, if you would be so kind, yer wee, endearing carbon based unit yer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on September 20, 2020, 01:46:18 PM
another idiotic, off-topic, trolling post.  IMO

Its the only way to get you post anything of note,works every time,I'm a great fisherman.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 20, 2020, 01:53:11 PM
Which investigation is that?

The current investigation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 20, 2020, 02:01:12 PM
Its the only way to get you post anything of note,works every time,I'm a great fisherman.
I think the word you're looking for rhymes with roll - sausage roll.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 21, 2020, 01:41:40 PM
Never to allow an opportunity to diss the McCann's in any which way he possibly can, Amaral is blaming them for the GNR dogs shedding hairs on the crime scene.
Snip
The former inspector "has no doubt" that the presence of the [tracking] dogs, at the request of Kate and Gerry McCann, worked to contaminate the evidence inside the apartment. "You can't be altering evidence", he recollected.
Translated by Joana Morais

You really couldn't make it up but Amaral just doesn't have a problem with that even thirteen years down the line.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 21, 2020, 01:45:41 PM
Never to allow an opportunity to diss the McCann's in any which way he possibly can, Amaral is blaming them for the GNR dogs shedding hairs on the crime scene.
Snip
The former inspector "has no doubt" that the presence of the [tracking] dogs, at the request of Kate and Gerry McCann, worked to contaminate the evidence inside the apartment. "You can't be altering evidence", he recollected.
Translated by Joana Morais

You really couldn't make it up but Amaral just doesn't have a problem with that even thirteen years down the line.

...beep....beep....beep beep....beep.......KERRCHHINNGG.
Another talking heads invoice being rang up on the Amaral Retirement Fund till.
His accountant and him are probably on the lash right now, enjoying his usual 4 hour boozy lunch.
He'll be dining out on this story probably forever. The man's an utter genius. Felicidades Snr. Ole!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 21, 2020, 02:05:43 PM
...beep....beep....beep beep....beep.......KERRCHHINNGG.
Another talking heads invoice being rang up on the Amaral Retirement Fund till.
His accountant and him are probably on the lash right now, enjoying his usual 4 hour boozy lunch.
He'll be dining out on this story probably forever. The man's an utter genius. Felicidades Snr. Ole!

I think the money tree for Amaral as represented by Madeleine is being cut down root and branch by German intervention.

Amaral is well aware of this.  I think you may well be too if your posts are anything to go by.  Although sometimes they are easier to decipher than at others.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 21, 2020, 02:16:07 PM
I think the money tree for Amaral as represented by Madeleine is being cut down root and branch by German intervention.

Amaral is well aware of this.  I think you may well be too if your posts are anything to go by.  Although sometimes they are easier to decipher than at others.
Your posts read like Helen Keller discovering brail for the first time, but who's judging.
As for Amaral's Golden Goose Laying Egg Goose Egg Layer courtesy of Mr and Mrs McCann, it's a win / win. If CB is not charged - sweet, he just needs to shake the tree and another daft hack will pop over for an exclusive. If he is, then every dope with a microphone will want to interview him.
If he's finished his lunch he may well be relaxing poolside, pondering which wing of the villa to develop next.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 21, 2020, 02:34:38 PM
I think the money tree for Amaral as represented by Madeleine is being cut down root and branch by German intervention.

Amaral is well aware of this.  I think you may well be too if your posts are anything to go by.  Although sometimes they are easier to decipher than at others.

Well, seems he is still sticking to his guns....plus a lot of interest to hear what he has to say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 21, 2020, 06:50:11 PM
Your posts read like Helen Keller discovering brail for the first time, but who's judging.
As for Amaral's Golden Goose Laying Egg Goose Egg Layer courtesy of Mr and Mrs McCann, it's a win / win. If CB is not charged - sweet, he just needs to shake the tree and another daft hack will pop over for an exclusive. If he is, then every dope with a microphone will want to interview him.
If he's finished his lunch he may well be relaxing poolside, pondering which wing of the villa to develop next.
if CB is charged then it may well be that every hack wants to interview Amaral, the question is: will he want to eat humble pie in front of scores of interested journalists? I reckon not.  I reckon Amaral would not be the toast of the town in such a scenario, just plain old burnt out scorched dry toast.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 21, 2020, 07:31:08 PM
if CB is charged then it may well be that every hack wants to interview Amaral, the question is: will he want to eat humble pie in front of scores of interested journalists? I reckon not.  I reckon Amaral would not be the toast of the town in such a scenario, just plain old burnt out scorched dry toast.

Why would it worry him if the Germans charged a man who, in his opinion, is a fallguy?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 21, 2020, 07:45:56 PM
Why would it worry him if the Germans charged a man who, in his opinion, is a fallguy?

Because it would be the beginning of the mccanns being proven innocent and amaral wrong
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 21, 2020, 07:47:27 PM
Why would it worry him if the Germans charged a man who, in his opinion, is a fallguy?
You’re right.  Perhaps he’s just too much of a conspiracy theorist to be able to see things rationally.  I guess it’s a form of self-protection. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on September 21, 2020, 07:50:56 PM
Because if you use logic you will see that there is no way they had the means or opportunity to dispose of the body, certainly not without help from friends and associates, and that's when it becomes implausible as well as illogical.

Just as illogical that they couldn't get keys to the church. That was help from a friend.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 21, 2020, 08:00:31 PM
Just as illogical that they couldn't get keys to the church. That was help from a friend.
If anyone can fathom out the relevance of the about to my post please let me know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: pathfinder73 on September 21, 2020, 08:10:13 PM
It's not implausible to hide a body or get help from friends so just more useless comments for you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 21, 2020, 08:20:51 PM
It's not implausible to hide a body or get help from friends so just more useless comments for you.


its not implausible for  a  burglar paedophile to have taken maddie...thanks for your insight
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 21, 2020, 08:21:47 PM
It's not implausible to hide a body or get help from friends so just more useless comments for you.
yes it is
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 21, 2020, 08:28:55 PM
The problem for amaral is the real culprit may well have been found....what does that do for his credibility...apart from amongst his disciples of course
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 21, 2020, 11:47:23 PM
The problem for amaral is the real culprit may well have been found....what does that do for his credibility...apart from amongst his disciples of course

If that should turn out to be Brueckner it is a bit of a double whammy for Amaral who told us Brueckner had been ruled out in 2007.  Something we would possibly never have known if he hadn't he hadn't told us.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 22, 2020, 09:35:05 AM
Who did Brueckner's lawyer meet with on his visit to Portugal when he was given "bombshell" evidence which he thinks clears his client?

Snip
"I cannot go into details but it is very significant and involves someone who has provided me with vital information," he told the Sun.

"When I reveal it you will fall off your chair."
______________________________________

"I found new details on my first trip and I have been back again to follow it up.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-suspects-lawyer-has-22719894

It is a story which has a certain 'ring' to it in my opinion which calls to mind the long, long wait for the appearance of an Ace being produced from a sleeve.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 22, 2020, 10:43:41 AM
Who did Brueckner's lawyer meet with on his visit to Portugal when he was given "bombshell" evidence which he thinks clears his client?

Snip
"I cannot go into details but it is very significant and involves someone who has provided me with vital information," he told the Sun.

"When I reveal it you will fall off your chair."
______________________________________

"I found new details on my first trip and I have been back again to follow it up.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleine-mccann-suspects-lawyer-has-22719894

It is a story which has a certain 'ring' to it in my opinion which calls to mind the long, long wait for the appearance of an Ace being produced from a sleeve.
Well it's not going to be Bernice from the supermarket. He's been supplied exculpatory information credible enough for him to return and verify its veracity. This is not the time for empty promises; this is the time to put an end to this charade. Unfortunately we now have this tedious brinksmanship stand-off, with HCW apparently refusing to disclose his evidence for investigative purposes and Fulscher now in a position that, if he does have such information, then he'd be a fool as a defence lawyer to disclose it before charges are formalised.

I don't think it's a bluff. At the very least its impact is being overblown, but at best it essentially fingers someone else, or someone's confirmed his alibi and it's been verified to his satifaction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 22, 2020, 10:51:32 AM
It's going to have to be actual video footage of Gerry McCann disposing of his daughter's body in a bin in a shady part of PdL to make me fall off my chair. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 22, 2020, 10:52:33 AM
Well it's not going to be Bernice from the supermarket. He's been supplied exculpatory information credible enough for him to return and verify its veracity. This is not the time for empty promises; this is the time to put an end to this charade. Unfortunately we now have this tedious brinksmanship stand-off, with HCW apparently refusing to disclose his evidence for investigative purposes and Fulscher now in a position that, if he does have such information, then he'd be a fool as a defence lawyer to disclose it before charges are formalised.

I don't think it's a bluff. At the very least its impact is being overblown, but at best it essentially fingers someone else, or someone's confirmed his alibi and it's been verified to his satifaction.

I think he understands little about the background  to the case and has been very impressed by information  supplied by amaral.  He may well think amaral has, credibility... I cannot see him having any information we are not aware of. It may be new to him but old hat to those who know the case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 22, 2020, 11:35:56 AM
It's going to have to be actual video footage of Gerry McCann disposing of his daughter's body in a bin in a shady part of PdL to make me fall off my chair.

Well I doubt you will see that....didnt GA say he CCTV wasn't working.

I think the mccs admitted though that they looked in the empty bins.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 22, 2020, 12:02:33 PM
Well I doubt you will see that....didnt GA say he CCTV wasn't working.

I think the mccs admitted though that they looked in the empty bins.
That's a relief - I've fallen off enough things to last me a lifetime, didn't really relish the prospect of falling off my chair as well. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 22, 2020, 12:24:18 PM
I think he understands little about the background  to the case and has been very impressed by information  supplied by amaral.  He may well think amaral has, credibility... I cannot see him having any information we are not aware of. It may be new to him but old hat to those who know the case
Although he met Snr Amaral, there's no indication that's where his information came from, old hat, new hat, tin hat or ass hat.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 22, 2020, 12:40:54 PM
Well it's not going to be Bernice from the supermarket. He's been supplied exculpatory information credible enough for him to return and verify its veracity. This is not the time for empty promises; this is the time to put an end to this charade. Unfortunately we now have this tedious brinksmanship stand-off, with HCW apparently refusing to disclose his evidence for investigative purposes and Fulscher now in a position that, if he does have such information, then he'd be a fool as a defence lawyer to disclose it before charges are formalised.

I don't think it's a bluff. At the very least its impact is being overblown, but at best it essentially fingers someone else, or someone's confirmed his alibi and it's been verified to his satifaction.

It is not a charade.

It is a very serious investigation which is horrendously expensive in time - personnel - and emotional resources before there is even any consideration of the financial outlay to be considered.

It is an investigation into the underbelly of criminal activity of which thankfully most of us are blissfully unaware.  But most of all it is an investigation into the disappearance of a little girl.  Which may be the last chance for those who love and hope for her to find out what has happened to her.

Definitely not a charade ... my opinion but also an indisputable fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on September 22, 2020, 12:47:42 PM
It is not a charade.

It is a very serious investigation which is horrendously expensive in time - personnel - and emotional resources before there is even any consideration of the financial outlay to be considered.

It is an investigation into the underbelly of criminal activity of which thankfully most of us are blissfully unaware.  But most of all it is an investigation into the disappearance of a little girl.  Which may be the last chance for those who love and hope for her to find out what has happened to her.

Definitely not a charade ... my opinion but also an indisputable fact.
That's nice. But I was referring to the 'suspect' and the charade therein.
And as for the expending of various resources, add unprecedented to your list of adjectives.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on February 11, 2021, 06:47:56 PM
That is true in the minority of cadaver dog cases.  So there are unexplained cases, but in the majority when the dog alerts, particularly in multiple places, one needs to consider the prior presence of a cadaver.  There is no reason to suspect this cadaver was Madeleine.  In fact the DNA results tend to suggest it wasn't her for sure.

But now we have HCW saying he has evidence linking CB to her death.   I was hoping Madeleine was still alive somewhere.

is this post libellous
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 11, 2021, 07:03:16 PM
is this post libellous
Compare apples with apples.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on February 11, 2021, 07:14:17 PM
Compare apples with apples.

I am . In your post you repeat Wolters claim. Thats all  I have done.

has Brunt ever been sued for saying...According to police reports theres dna with  a 100% match to maddie. you have already said you dont understand libel...I do
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 11, 2021, 07:20:58 PM
I am . In your post you repeat Wolters claim. Thats all  I have done.

has Brunt ever been sued for saying...According to police reports theres dna with  a 100% match to maddie. you have already said you dont understand libel...I do
No, you sort of went the one step further saying the case was done and dusted.

I remember Brunt saying that , but he didn't go on to say " there's dna with  a 100% match to maddie, and that proves the McCanns did it."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on February 11, 2021, 07:25:41 PM
No, you sort of went the one step further saying the case was done and dusted.

I remember Brunt saying that , but he didn't go on to say " there's dna with  a 100% match to maddie, and that proves the McCanns did it."

You need  to read and refer to posts properly....I havent said it proves CB did it. You really need to read things accurately
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 11, 2021, 07:30:42 PM
You need  to read and refer to posts properly....I havent said it proves CB did it. You really need to read things accurately
Well, quote what you did say then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on February 11, 2021, 07:35:31 PM
Well, quote what you did say then.

You are the one making the claim so you need to find  apost. Ive only ever said Wolters says he has strong evidence taht CB murdered maddie
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 11, 2021, 07:36:59 PM
You are the one making the claim so you need to find  apost. Ive only ever said Wolters says he has strong evidence taht CB murdered maddie
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11870.msg639871#msg639871

"Probably becasue the Germans are now leading the investigation which is as good as solved..imo"
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 11, 2021, 07:39:46 PM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11870.msg639943#msg639943

When you say "as good as solved"  I took that to mean the case against CB is as good as solved, implying CB is guilty of murder, and that you had this view even before the evidence has been presented in court and CB being found guilty by a court.
Look, if I have misjudged the meaning of your post I apologise.

If you think I misunderstood what "as good as solved" means could you kindly explain yourself?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on February 11, 2021, 07:41:06 PM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11870.msg639871#msg639871

"Probably becasue the Germans are now leading the investigation which is as good as solved..imo"

I think it is as good as solved. ...buit i may be wrong..Thats my opinion based on the evidence. Yet its ok for Kizzy to repeatedly say the mcCanns are involved
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 11, 2021, 07:45:44 PM
I think it is as good as solved. ...buit i may be wrong..Thats my opinion based on the evidence. Yet its ok for Kizzy to repeatedly say the mcCanns are involved
Thanks, one day I'll be on Kizzy's case as well.

Evidence?   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on February 11, 2021, 07:47:48 PM
Thanks, one day I'll be on Kizzy's case as well.

Evidence?

Ive said its a good as solved ...Ive mnetioned no names...my full post is I think its as good as solved
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 11, 2021, 07:49:46 PM
Ive said its a good as solved ...Ive mnetioned no names
I can't allow that I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on February 11, 2021, 07:50:51 PM
I can't allow that I'm sorry.

I dont really care. Are yoiu saying im not allowed an opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 11, 2021, 07:59:18 PM
I dont really care. Are yoiu saying im not allowed an opinion.
As I explained over the last hour I find it potentially libellous.  On its own it may be meaningless but in libel cases you have to look at the entirety of the discussion.  Was it expressed as an opinion?

"Ive said its a good as solved ...I've mentioned no names"  That isn't an opinion to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on February 11, 2021, 08:07:58 PM
As I explained over the last hour I find it potentially libellous.  On its own it may be meaningless but in libel cases you have to look at the entirety of the discussion.  Was it expressed as an opinion?

"Ive said its a good as solved ...I've mentioned no names"  That isn't an opinion to me.

my original post you complained about was..

"Probably becasue the Germans are now leading the investigation which is as good as solved..imo"


clearly opinion...the above post was a further explanation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 11, 2021, 08:14:38 PM
my original post you complained about was..

"Probably becasue the Germans are now leading the investigation which is as good as solved..imo"


clearly opinion...the above post was a further explanation
You were implying someone was going to be found guilty even before they had a trial. I'm hoping for the McCann's sake the presumption of innocence is not negated by opinion.  Free speech doesn't outweigh the presumption of innocence IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on February 11, 2021, 08:19:55 PM
You were implying someone was going to be found guilty even before they had a trial. I'm hoping for the McCann's sake the presumption of innocence is not negated by opinion.  Free speech doesn't outweigh the presumption of innocence IMO.

Im not sure anyone will be found guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 11, 2021, 08:29:56 PM
Im not sure anyone will be found guilty
"As good as solved" ... "Im not sure anyone will be found guilty"

I don't like where you're headed.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 03, 2021, 06:21:31 PM
Police arrest shakes up Madeleine McCann case 12 years after girl's disappearance
Paulo Pereira Cristovao appeared in the Netflix documentary series harshly questioning the parents of the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz in 2007

December 7, 2019

A former Portuguese detective who was involved in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in 2007 and who recently appeared in the Netflix documentary about the case, was arrested and sentenced to seven and a half years in prison.

Paulo Pereira Cristovao, who also wrote a book about the mysterious plot, in which he harshly accused the girl's parents, was part of a criminal network that orchestrated several violent robberies at properties in Lisbon and at a resort in Cascaes. The prosecution proved that his role in the gang was to provide key information about the victims and their homes.

Gonçalo Amaral, who had been the chief investigator in the Madeleine McCann case, is also suspected of participating in the criminal network. However, he will remain at large until his judicial status is determined.

The 51-year-old former policeman had gone so far as to call for Kate and Gerry McCann to be arrested for leaving Madeleine alone at the Algarve hotel. In The Star of Madeleine, his book, he claimed that the girl had died and that her body had been thrown into the sea. Pereira Cristovao had been displaced from the police in 2009, accused of torturing the mother and uncle of another missing girl to make a false confession

The McCann case was reinvigorated in March with the premiere of the Netflix documentary about her disappearance, which claims that the British girl, last seen 12 years ago in Portugal, is still alive and being held hostage by a human trafficking network. The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann, interviews dozens of experts and key figures in the case, in the hope of rekindled the mystery and reaching, among the more than 150 million subscribers, someone who can recognize her, if the girl is still alive.

Jim Gamble, the British police authority that led the first investigation, was emphatic: "I absolutely believe that before I die we will find out what happened to her." In that regard, he highlighted the important advances in DNA technology and facial recognition with which the evidence of old cases is reviewed.

The main hypothesis constructed in the documentary is that the girl was kidnapped for a trafficking network, due to her blonde appearance, which gives her more value on the black market. Julián Peribánez, a private investigator who was hired by the family, explained: "(Mafias) usually go after poor children from third world countries. It is the main source. The value that Madeleine had was very high, they were going to get a lot of money." In addition, the documentary argues that Portugal is a perfect location for the kidnappers, being able to take the victims by boat to almost countless parts of Europe.

However, the production does not feature the testimonies of Kate and Gerry McCann, who do not believe the documentary helps in the search and refused to participate in the interviews.

https://www.infobae.com/america/mundo/2019/12/07/el-arresto-de-un-policia-sacude-el-caso-madeleine-mccann-a-12-anos-de-la-desaparicion-de-la-nina/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 16, 2021, 11:05:55 PM
Did Portuguese police let Madeleine McCann's abductor escape justice? Investigation focused on girl's parents... while German paedophile suspect was 'discarded' by detectives

Portuguese detectives who probed the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have been left facing tough questions after it emerged they identified the German paedophile who is now the chief suspect in 2007 - but 'discarded' him.

Goncalo Amaral, the man who led the investigation, confirmed in April last year that 'a German paedophile currently in jail in Germany' - now named as Christian Brueckner - was identified 13 years ago as a potential suspect.

But Amaral, who was sacked after naming Kate and Jerry as suspects in the disappearance and maintains they were responsible, said Brueckner was 'discarded' after detectives 'found nothing to suggest he took Madeleine'.

That is despite revelations today that Brueckner had a lengthy criminal record including burglary and child sex crimes, lived in a property just three miles from where Maddie went missing, and can be placed in the area on the night in question using mobile phone records.
     ______________________________________________________________________


He was then brought to the attention of Amaral as he investigated Madeleine's disappearance in 2007, but was dismissed as a 'scapegoat'.

Speaking to Australian podcast Maddie in April last year, Amaral predicted that British police 'are probably going to use a German paedophile who is in jail in Germany' as their chief suspect.

He said that the Portuguese Polícia Judiciária, 'investigated him at the time but found nothing to suggest he took Madeleine.'

Amaral suggested that British police had been working up cases against two German paedophiles - one of whom died a few years ago, leaving one suspect to pursue.

In the interview, he accused British detectives of 'wanting it to be' the now-dead paedophile.

Madeleine McCann: Paedophile suspect had 17 convictions | Daily Mail Online
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8387125/New-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-discussed-online-chatroom-years-later.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 26, 2021, 04:29:28 AM
Police arrest shakes up Madeleine McCann case 12 years after girl's disappearance
Paulo Pereira Cristovao appeared in the Netflix documentary series harshly questioning the parents of the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz in 2007

December 7, 2019

A former Portuguese detective who was involved in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in 2007 and who recently appeared in the Netflix documentary about the case, was arrested and sentenced to seven and a half years in prison.

Paulo Pereira Cristovao, who also wrote a book about the mysterious plot, in which he harshly accused the girl's parents, was part of a criminal network that orchestrated several violent robberies at properties in Lisbon and at a resort in Cascaes. The prosecution proved that his role in the gang was to provide key information about the victims and their homes.

Gonçalo Amaral, who had been the chief investigator in the Madeleine McCann case, is also suspected of participating in the criminal network. However, he will remain at large until his judicial status is determined.

The 51-year-old former policeman had gone so far as to call for Kate and Gerry McCann to be arrested for leaving Madeleine alone at the Algarve hotel. In The Star of Madeleine, his book, he claimed that the girl had died and that her body had been thrown into the sea. Pereira Cristovao had been displaced from the police in 2009, accused of torturing the mother and uncle of another missing girl to make a false confession

The McCann case was reinvigorated in March with the premiere of the Netflix documentary about her disappearance, which claims that the British girl, last seen 12 years ago in Portugal, is still alive and being held hostage by a human trafficking network. The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann, interviews dozens of experts and key figures in the case, in the hope of rekindled the mystery and reaching, among the more than 150 million subscribers, someone who can recognize her, if the girl is still alive.

Jim Gamble, the British police authority that led the first investigation, was emphatic: "I absolutely believe that before I die we will find out what happened to her." In that regard, he highlighted the important advances in DNA technology and facial recognition with which the evidence of old cases is reviewed.

The main hypothesis constructed in the documentary is that the girl was kidnapped for a trafficking network, due to her blonde appearance, which gives her more value on the black market. Julián Peribánez, a private investigator who was hired by the family, explained: "(Mafias) usually go after poor children from third world countries. It is the main source. The value that Madeleine had was very high, they were going to get a lot of money." In addition, the documentary argues that Portugal is a perfect location for the kidnappers, being able to take the victims by boat to almost countless parts of Europe.

However, the production does not feature the testimonies of Kate and Gerry McCann, who do not believe the documentary helps in the search and refused to participate in the interviews.

https://www.infobae.com/america/mundo/2019/12/07/el-arresto-de-un-policia-sacude-el-caso-madeleine-mccann-a-12-anos-de-la-desaparicion-de-la-nina/
It is somewhat fanciful to believe such gangs would go after such a massively high risk target just because she had blonde hair.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 26, 2021, 11:16:50 AM
It is somewhat fanciful to believe such gangs would go after such a massively high risk target just because she had blonde hair.

There could be several reasons why she, especially, was targetted:

1)  Because of her very special pure bloodline, which i have suggested before to much derision
2)  Because a VERY RICH man had taken a fancy to her.   Sorry to have to say this, but facts must be faced
3)  Some couple wanted her for their daughter


IMO, number 1 is the most likely for reasons I have specified before   I
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2021, 04:00:42 PM
It is somewhat fanciful to believe such gangs would go after such a massively high risk target just because she had blonde hair.

What was "high risk" about an ordinary family on an ordinary family holiday pray do tell. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2021, 04:18:45 PM
What was "high risk" about an ordinary family on an ordinary family holiday pray do tell.

Nothing, to all intents and purposes.  A very ordinary little girl from a very ordinary family, albeit well nurtured.

It was the time and place that mattered.  Madeleine was available.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 26, 2021, 04:25:17 PM
But there were' lots of little blonde girls, all in pink', according to Jezz's partner . Why Madeleine ?

Because she was left unattended.

IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2021, 04:42:01 PM
Nothing, to all intents and purposes.  A very ordinary little girl from a very ordinary family, albeit well nurtured.

It was the time and place that mattered.  Madeleine was available.

Whoever abducted Madeleine never thought there would be the furore there was.  They knew there would be a bit of a stir - then the family would go home - and Madeleine would be to all intents and purposes forgotten.

The reaction of her parents just wasn't taken into consideration.  Which of us could take the initiatives the McCanns took to get their daughter back and keep at it with determination for as long as they have.  Not many if even any at all.

They didn't follow the script Amaral had rehearsed in Figueira - even to the slurs and use of the press - which is why he has such malice for them and has recently cast the smithman slur yet again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2021, 04:44:52 PM

I'm seeing abduction being stated as fact again.

I thought this was against forum rules?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2021, 04:52:17 PM
I'm seeing abduction being stated as fact again.

I thought this was against forum rules?
Quick, report the offending posts before we all start believing it must be true!!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
I'm seeing abduction being stated as fact again.

I thought this was against forum rules?

I suggest you contact the German police - the Portuguese police - and the British police, refer them to Amaral's book, then tell them they've got Madeleine's abduction all wrong.


However, now you mention it, maybe it is time I should be taking a closer look at posts which are against not only forum rules but common decency.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2021, 05:00:02 PM
I suggest you contact the German police - the Portuguese police - and the British police, refer them to Amaral's book, then tell them they've got Madeleine's abduction all wrong.


However, now you mention it, maybe it is time I should be taking a closer look at posts which are against not only forum rules but common decency.

None of them have backed up their claims with any evidence.

The Police said drunken football thugs were to blame for Hillsborough, so that must also be true.

(I still believe it's true)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2021, 05:07:27 PM
But there were' lots of little blonde girls, all in pink', according to Jezz's partner . Why Madeleine ?

Because she was left unattended.

IMO

The middle of the night would have done just as well.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 26, 2021, 06:08:16 PM
I very much doubt that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2021, 06:14:45 PM
I very much doubt that.

I am not in the least bit interested in what you think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 26, 2021, 06:26:26 PM
I am not in the least bit interested in what you think.

Of course not - you think it was some nasty bogeyman.
You may be right, but not in the way you think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 26, 2021, 07:41:20 PM
But there were' lots of little blonde girls, all in pink', according to Jezz's partner . Why Madeleine ?

Because she was left unattended.

IMO

Madeleine was targetted.   
1)  Too many witnesses noticed the man watching 5A and its comings and goings for that to be untrue.


2)  I also have a niggling wonder if 5A was specially allocated to the Mccann family because no-one else ever went past the windows or door on the northern side. 

3)  It was very dark there and surprise, surprise the porch light was broken.

4)  There was a convenient car park for the getaway car very close but around two corners - so anyone seeing the getaway car being driven towards the 5A car park could not be seen by the same person. 

Therefore, no visual connection.  Hidden in plain sight.

5)  Also, a viewer on the the balcony to the flats opposite could see anyone approaching both the front door and the back door. 

6)  He could also see straight into 5A.  His balcony lined up perfectly whether the top one, or the middle one.    He could actually see Gerry moving around in there.  He could see him leaving as well as arriving.



It is my belief that a watcher on this balcony opposite gave the go ahead for Tannerman to go in as he saw Gerry leaving. 

What the watcher did not know was that Gerry had met Jez and they were chatting nearby.


So was 5A allocated to the special target, Madeleine, because of the abductors advantages outlined above ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 26, 2021, 11:35:25 PM
Nothing, to all intents and purposes.  A very ordinary little girl from a very ordinary family, albeit well nurtured.

It was the time and place that mattered.  Madeleine was available.

That's not how the [UK - as far as I recall) Police saw it. Reportedly they stated a British tourist girl would be a very unusual high risk victim / target.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2021, 11:37:57 PM
That's not how the [UK - as far as I recall) Police saw it. Reportedly they stated a British tourist girl would be a very unusual high risk victim / target.
cite?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on July 27, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
cite?

You'll have to google it for yourself, sorry. I definitely remember hearing it or reading it somewhere. I don't have time to find it. I have to work full time and then some!!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 27, 2021, 10:40:18 AM
But there were' lots of little blonde girls, all in pink', according to Jezz's partner . Why Madeleine ?

Because she was left unattended.

IMO

Ah so you do think Madeleine was taken.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 27, 2021, 10:41:48 AM
I very much doubt that.

What about the man who entered apartments stole things and abused children in their beds?   He could easily have taken one of them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 27, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
What about the man who entered apartments stole things and abused children in their beds?   He could easily have taken one of them.

He didn't
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2021, 11:19:35 AM
You'll have to google it for yourself, sorry. I definitely remember hearing it or reading it somewhere. I don't have time to find it. I have to work full time and then some!!!
@)(++(* the thing is, if you make a statement like that and then are asked for a cite, the onus is on you to supply it, not on me to google it, so I guess it shall remain just an unsubstantiated rumour for now. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 27, 2021, 11:33:32 AM
Nothing, to all intents and purposes.  A very ordinary little girl from a very ordinary family, albeit well nurtured.

It was the time and place that mattered.  Madeleine was available.

And with all those witnesses noticing a man watching 5A, she was tergetted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2021, 11:45:36 AM
cite?

Prof David Canter, Director of Investigative Psychology at Liverpool University, is one of Britain's foremost behavioural profilers. He didn't see Madeleine as a an obvious choice for abduction because;

an organised criminal network abducting children to traffic them in some way... would not have gone to an area such as Praia da Luz,' he concluded. 'There are so many adults around.'...'If a gang wanted a blonde child, like Madeleine, then the orphanages in Croatia are full of them.'

A mother who is very disturbed and trying to abduct a child to replace her own dead baby wouldn't have gone for Madeleine. She would have gone for one of the twins who, being that much younger, could have been absorbed into her family.'

four years old is an odd age for any child victim to be abducted - too young to be of interest to most paedophiles, too old to be trafficked or stolen as a baby-substitute.
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/the-maddie-files-five-experts-explain-how-the-police-missed-vital-chances-to-find-her-or-her-body-6618141.html

'



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 27, 2021, 12:06:57 PM
Prof David Canter, Director of Investigative Psychology at Liverpool University, is one of Britain's foremost behavioural profilers. He didn't see Madeleine as a an obvious choice for abduction because;

an organised criminal network abducting children to traffic them in some way... would not have gone to an area such as Praia da Luz,' he concluded. 'There are so many adults around.'...'If a gang wanted a blonde child, like Madeleine, then the orphanages in Croatia are full of them.'

A mother who is very disturbed and trying to abduct a child to replace her own dead baby wouldn't have gone for Madeleine. She would have gone for one of the twins who, being that much younger, could have been absorbed into her family.'

four years old is an odd age for any child victim to be abducted - too young to be of interest to most paedophiles, too old to be trafficked or stolen as a baby-substitute.
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/the-maddie-files-five-experts-explain-how-the-police-missed-vital-chances-to-find-her-or-her-body-6618141.html

'

But then we have..

A local paedophile with a history of burglary who has contacts at thr O Club
He may well have known how essy it was to enter the apartments and may well have information that the children were being left alone
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2021, 12:14:38 PM
But then we have..

A local paedophile with a history of burglary who has contacts at thr O Club
He may well have known how essy it was to enter the apartments and may well have information that the children were being left alone

And equally he may not. What contacts did he have at the Ocean Club?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 27, 2021, 12:15:56 PM
And equally he may not. What contacts did he have at the Ocean Club?

Who knows
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2021, 12:25:31 PM
Prof David Canter, Director of Investigative Psychology at Liverpool University, is one of Britain's foremost behavioural profilers. He didn't see Madeleine as a an obvious choice for abduction because;

an organised criminal network abducting children to traffic them in some way... would not have gone to an area such as Praia da Luz,' he concluded. 'There are so many adults around.'...'If a gang wanted a blonde child, like Madeleine, then the orphanages in Croatia are full of them.'

A mother who is very disturbed and trying to abduct a child to replace her own dead baby wouldn't have gone for Madeleine. She would have gone for one of the twins who, being that much younger, could have been absorbed into her family.'

four years old is an odd age for any child victim to be abducted - too young to be of interest to most paedophiles, too old to be trafficked or stolen as a baby-substitute.
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/the-maddie-files-five-experts-explain-how-the-police-missed-vital-chances-to-find-her-or-her-body-6618141.html

'
Nice try, but we were told that the UK police stated  that a British tourist girl would be a very unusual high risk victim / target so perhaps you could try again to find a relevant cite?

By the way, how much store do you put in David Canter's opinion out of interest...?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2021, 12:28:34 PM
And equally he may not. What contacts did he have at the Ocean Club?
We know he made a living stealing from holiday makers' apartments in the area.  We know he had an unhealthy interest in little girls.  We know he is a violent sex offender.  Apart from that he doesn't fit the bill at all!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2021, 12:50:32 PM
David Canter writing in the Times in October 2007 about Madeleine Mccann "I have come to the conclusion that the greatest likelihood is that she was abducted, and probably by a local person."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2021, 01:27:05 PM
Prof David Canter, Director of Investigative Psychology at Liverpool University, is one of Britain's foremost behavioural profilers. He didn't see Madeleine as a an obvious choice for abduction because;

an organised criminal network abducting children to traffic them in some way... would not have gone to an area such as Praia da Luz,' he concluded. 'There are so many adults around.'...'If a gang wanted a blonde child, like Madeleine, then the orphanages in Croatia are full of them.'

A mother who is very disturbed and trying to abduct a child to replace her own dead baby wouldn't have gone for Madeleine. She would have gone for one of the twins who, being that much younger, could have been absorbed into her family.'

four years old is an odd age for any child victim to be abducted - too young to be of interest to most paedophiles, too old to be trafficked or stolen as a baby-substitute.
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/the-maddie-files-five-experts-explain-how-the-police-missed-vital-chances-to-find-her-or-her-body-6618141.html

"A mother who is very disturbed and trying to abduct a child to replace her own dead baby wouldn't have gone for Madeleine. She would have gone for one of the twins who, being that much younger, could have been absorbed into her family."   Gunit

I do not think so.

There are an awful lot of wee three going on four year olds out there who are lookalikes. I know for a fact through the experience of my daughter's ballet classes that twenty plus little girls with their hair pulled back into a tight bun all wearing identical outfits makes it very difficult to differentiate who is who.

Therefore the 'very disturbed grieving mother' of a little three year old girl is hardly likely to make the attempt to 'replace' her with a child who it is patently obvious is years younger and/or a different sex.


There are sickening reasons why your speculation on the age range preferred makes that part of your post nonsense too.

There is just so much evidence about how quiet Praia da Luz was when Madeleine was taken that it makes a nonsense of your statement that it was too crowded to be considered by organised crime.

Quite obviously Madeleine was taken by someone for whatever reason and there are named individuals who fit the profile one of whom are being currently investigated. 
Which is of greater interest to me than any speculation as to that individual's motive.  I'm quite content for the police to work all that out based on whatever evidence they have.

And the two things we know is that the police are investigating stranger abduction and they have supporting evidence for that.  Proof is a different matter but I for one they are able to find it; from some of the posts I have read I don't know if my sentiment is universally shared.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 27, 2021, 01:35:06 PM
Prof David Canter, Director of Investigative Psychology at Liverpool University, is one of Britain's foremost behavioural profilers. He didn't see Madeleine as a an obvious choice for abduction because;

an organised criminal network abducting children to traffic them in some way... would not have gone to an area such as Praia da Luz,' he concluded. 'There are so many adults around.'...'If a gang wanted a blonde child, like Madeleine, then the orphanages in Croatia are full of them.'

A mother who is very disturbed and trying to abduct a child to replace her own dead baby wouldn't have gone for Madeleine. She would have gone for one of the twins who, being that much younger, could have been absorbed into her family.'

four years old is an odd age for any child victim to be abducted - too young to be of interest to most paedophiles, too old to be trafficked or stolen as a baby-substitute.
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/the-maddie-files-five-experts-explain-how-the-police-missed-vital-chances-to-find-her-or-her-body-6618141.html

'

Quite.  Thankyou for that Gunit.  I think that is probably correct in most cases.


But Madeleine was targetted as shown by all the witnesses observing a man watching the comings and goings to the apartment.  The man also peered in as witnessed by Tasmin Silence.


IMO, Madeleine was specifically targetted because they wanted her for a special reason.  i think it was because of her very special bloodline.

Was she direct line decended from John the Baptist?  Her paternal grandma was a JOHNSON after all.  Both parents appear to be descended from Caananites

McCann means *of the Canns* (Caananites?) and also of the Johnsons

Kennedy = Kates Mums maiden name.   Spelling is a comparitively new addition to language; there is every likelyhood that Kenn is a spelling of Cann.(Caananites). 

The Healeys/Healys intermarried with the Sinclairs.   The Sinclairs are thought to be descended from Jesus Christ and Mary Magdelene.


Yep it is thought that Jesus Christ lived on after the crucifixion eventually settling with Mary in the south of France.   According to sources on the internet,  his uncle Joseph of Arimathea rescued him from the cross and nursed him back to health.  Joseph was very rich and influential, dealing in Marble and tin (Cornwall) internationally.  He owned ships

Jesus, Mary and followers escaped to the Greek islands initially.  It is said that Jesus raised a family in the south of France.   It is said that he also visited England  (Cornwall, Glastonbury and the tin mining places)

The hymn  *Jeruselem* says it all IMO


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyZSPci7bKU   = Charlotte Church singing *Jeruselem* in Jeruselem



"And did those feet in ancient times, walk upon Englands mountains green.  And was the Holy Lamb of God .....





Could Madeleine be descended from both Jesus+Mary ( and also from John the Baptist ?

POW !!!!   Some devious soul could make a mega amount of money out of her if so.   Or upgrade his family geneology magnificently.



There is strong feeling on the internet that John the Baptist was the man who should be mainly worshipped rather than Jesus being the main man.   You will have to look that up to check all that I am saying is correct
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2021, 01:56:54 PM
Who knows

I thought you might as you made the claim.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2021, 01:59:02 PM
"A mother who is very disturbed and trying to abduct a child to replace her own dead baby wouldn't have gone for Madeleine. She would have gone for one of the twins who, being that much younger, could have been absorbed into her family."   Gunit

I do not think so.

There are an awful lot of wee three going on four year olds out there who are lookalikes. I know for a fact through the experience of my daughter's ballet classes that twenty plus little girls with their hair pulled back into a tight bun all wearing identical outfits makes it very difficult to differentiate who is who.

Therefore the 'very disturbed grieving mother' of a little three year old girl is hardly likely to make the attempt to 'replace' her with a child who it is patently obvious is years younger and/or a different sex.


There are sickening reasons why your speculation on the age range preferred makes that part of your post nonsense too.

There is just so much evidence about how quiet Praia da Luz was when Madeleine was taken that it makes a nonsense of your statement that it was too crowded to be considered by organised crime.

Quite obviously Madeleine was taken by someone for whatever reason and there are named individuals who fit the profile one of whom are being currently investigated. 
Which is of greater interest to me than any speculation as to that individual's motive.  I'm quite content for the police to work all that out based on whatever evidence they have.

And the two things we know is that the police are investigating stranger abduction and they have supporting evidence for that.  Proof is a different matter but I for one they are able to find it; from some of the posts I have read I don't know if my sentiment is universally shared.

Just one comment - these are not my words and thoughts, they're quotes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2021, 02:13:22 PM
And equally he may not. What contacts did he have at the Ocean Club?

The 3 burglars, gardeners. a black guy who was fired & seeking revenge plus the receptionist who showed them Kate's note  about the childacare arrangements that wasn't in the files.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2021, 03:42:22 PM
Just one comment - these are not my words and thoughts, they're quotes.

Just another comment - I have responded to one of your chosen quotes because I disagree with it.  This being a discussion forum I naturally assumed you wished to discuss what you posted albeit your post was off topic to begin with.  😁
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 20, 2021, 09:12:27 PM
According to McFadden (I Think it is) Amaral has a book coming out in October.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2021, 09:22:34 PM
According to McFadden (I Think it is) Amaral has a book coming out in October.
McFadden? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2021, 10:36:18 PM
Just another comment - I have responded to one of your chosen quotes because I disagree with it.  This being a discussion forum I naturally assumed you wished to discuss what you posted albeit your post was off topic to begin with.  😁

I was probably responding to this bit of your reply;

There are sickening reasons why your speculation on the age range preferred makes that part of your post nonsense too.

As I pointed out, the speculation wasn't mine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2021, 10:52:16 PM
According to McFadden (I Think it is) Amaral has a book coming out in October.

Isabelle McFabulous Retweeted
Madeleine Case TweetsGlobe with meridians
@McCannCaseTweet
·
6h
AMAZING NEWS!!!! Fire
I’ve received an Email from Gonçalo Amaral, he told me his new book will be out in October. #McCann
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2021, 10:53:13 PM
Oh god, not that screechy twitter nutter.  Must be true then.  Whoopie!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 20, 2021, 11:05:01 PM
Oh god, not that screechy twitter nutter.  Must be true then.  Whoopie!

Why do you describe her like that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 20, 2021, 11:09:11 PM
Why do you describe her like that?
Because in my opinion that is precisely what she is.  A most unpleasant character imo who has been at the forefront of the social media hate campaign in one guise or another for many, many years. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2021, 09:28:49 AM
Because in my opinion that is precisely what she is.  A most unpleasant character imo who has been at the forefront of the social media hate campaign in one guise or another for many, many years.

Whatever you think of her character is immaterial though, isn't it? It tells us nothing about the truth of the information she has shared. That will be revealed in October, apparently.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 21, 2021, 09:31:28 AM
Whatever you think of her character is immaterial though, isn't it? It tells us nothing about the truth of the information she has shared. That will be revealed in October, apparently.
Strange that there are no pre-order links to his book on any Portuguese booksellers websites, not that I could see anyway.   Perhaps the fragrant McFadden could help publicise the imminent literary tome some more by putting the links on twitter so we can all order a copy? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 22, 2021, 06:41:48 AM
 From the Canter quote above:

He didn't see Madeleine as an obvious choice for abduction because...

"four years old is an odd age for any child victim to be abducted - too young to be of interest to most paedophiles, too old to be trafficked or stolen as a baby-substitute."

 So what!   Exceptions can and do occur, as in the case of David Bryant whose four victims ranged in age from 3-5 years old...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/mar/09/paedophile-dna-david-bryant (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/mar/09/paedophile-dna-david-bryant)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17520904 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17520904)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 22, 2021, 07:07:38 AM
Thousands (sadly probably hundteds of thousands) of children under the age of 4 have been sexually abused over the years so I really don’t know what Canter is on about in this respect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2021, 11:42:12 AM
From the Canter quote above:

He didn't see Madeleine as an obvious choice for abduction because...

"four years old is an odd age for any child victim to be abducted - too young to be of interest to most paedophiles, too old to be trafficked or stolen as a baby-substitute."

 So what!   Exceptions can and do occur, as in the case of David Bryant whose four victims ranged in age from 3-5 years old...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/mar/09/paedophile-dna-david-bryant (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/mar/09/paedophile-dna-david-bryant)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17520904 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17520904)

He does refer to "most paedophiles" not all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2021, 11:43:33 AM
Thousands (sadly probably hundteds of thousands) of children under the age of 4 have been sexually abused over the years so I really don’t know what Canter is on about in this respect.

Forensic scientist Dave Barclay shares the same views:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-30341786.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 22, 2021, 11:45:59 AM
Forensic scientist Dave Barclay shares the same views:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-30341786.html
I don't care - to suggest that under 4 year olds are not of interest to "most" paedophiles is entirely irrelevant to the many, many under 4 year olds that HAVE been sexually abused.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2021, 11:56:04 AM
I don't care - to suggest that under 4 year olds are not of interest to "most" paedophiles is entirely irrelevant to the many, many under 4 year olds that HAVE been sexually abused.

Sexual abuse covers a wide gamut.  In this case it also potentially includes abduction.

For those who believe MM was abducted there's no evidence the crime was sexually motivated.

I know you don't care but I prefer to rely on the words of qualified criminologists and forensic scientists who have all the statistical data to hand. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 22, 2021, 12:03:59 PM
Oh God, here we go again.

I try not to think about this, although I am certain that it happens.

I am just not sure where Goncalo Amaral comes into this.  Although he did threaten his lady friend of danger to her small daughter, albeit not by himself personally and sexually.

So heaven alone knows what he thought he could do.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 22, 2021, 12:10:08 PM
Sexual abuse covers a wide gamut.  In this case it also potentially includes abduction.

For those who believe MM was abducted there's no evidence the crime was sexually motivated.

I know you don't care but I prefer to rely on the words of qualified criminologists and forensic scientists who have all the statistical data to hand.

Oh, but we do care.  Even if only cursorily.

No one has a problem with your ideas.  This is a Discussion Forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 22, 2021, 01:29:09 PM
Sexual abuse covers a wide gamut.  In this case it also potentially includes abduction.

For those who believe MM was abducted there's no evidence the crime was sexually motivated.

I know you don't care but I prefer to rely on the words of qualified criminologists and forensic scientists who have all the statistical data to hand.
There's no evidence the crime was motivated by a desperate desire for a child to bring up.  In fact the vast amount of adults have no desire to steal other people's kids to bring up as their own.  And your point is?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 22, 2021, 01:34:16 PM
I don't care - to suggest that under 4 year olds are not of interest to "most" paedophiles is entirely irrelevant to the many, many under 4 year olds that HAVE been sexually abused.

The majority of offences would be by family members & persons known to the family.

So, statistically, it's more likely that someone known to Maddie was involved rather than a stranger.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2021, 01:42:54 PM
Babies are rape victims.  These guys who try to categorise paedophiles as if they are normal people are talking through a hole in their heads and I think it is about time we were thinking very hard about promoting their views.

They demonstrate very well that they know nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 22, 2021, 01:43:42 PM
There's no evidence the crime was motivated by a desperate desire for a child to bring up.  In fact the vast amount of adults have no desire to steal other people's kids to bring up as their own.  And your point is?

The vast majority of parents don't leave small children alone night after night in an unlocked holiday apartment making it possible for an abductor to enter and leave with low risk of being detected either during or after such an event.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 22, 2021, 02:13:23 PM
The majority of offences would be by family members & persons known to the family.

So, statistically, it's more likely that someone known to Maddie was involved rather than a stranger.
that's as maybe but it doesn't mean they did.   Statistics tell us nothing about individual cases. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 22, 2021, 02:14:49 PM
The vast majority of parents don't leave small children alone night after night in an unlocked holiday apartment making it possible for an abductor to enter and leave with low risk of being detected either during or after such an event.
So what?  The McCanns DID do so and therefore abduction was possible.  and your point is?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2021, 07:32:03 PM
The vast majority of parents don't leave small children alone night after night in an unlocked holiday apartment making it possible for an abductor to enter and leave with low risk of being detected either during or after such an event.

I would be a very rich person had I a farthing for every time a McCann sceptic somewhere in the world reiterated that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2021, 07:35:54 PM
The vast majority of parents don't leave small children alone night after night in an unlocked holiday apartment making it possible for an abductor to enter and leave with low risk of being detected either during or after such an event.

What is your opinion of a drunk man speeding about with a very small child in his vehicle to the terror of his wife.

Sceptics don't seem to be like a record stuck in a groove on that one.  Funny that 😁
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 22, 2021, 07:39:45 PM
I don't care - to suggest that under 4 year olds are not of interest to "most" paedophiles is entirely irrelevant to the many, many under 4 year olds that HAVE been sexually abused.

And in  the vast majority of those cases the abuse is carried out by a family member or someone known to the family.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 22, 2021, 07:53:01 PM
I do not wish to discuss these perverts ~ why on earth are you identifying them and bringing their despicable and unmentionable crimes on the forum.

Totally unnecessary and mere attention on your part I think.

What on earth do you mean?

The links weren't to "perverts" but to experts in crime, criminology and forensics:

David Canter
PhD, FAcSS, Hon FBPsS, FRSM, FAPA, C.Psychol, MA (music composition)
Applied social psychologist, creator of Investigative Psychology. Emeritus Professor at The University of Liverpool,
Visiting Professor at Liverpool Hope University.
 Internationally known for introducing scientific psychology into ‘offender profiling’ and developing the field of Investigative Psychology beyond those origins,

Dave Barclay (Forensics)
I am currently an Honorary Professor at the University of Hull, and I am on the Advisory Board of the International Homicide Investigators Association, an organisation funded by the US Government.
I was a practising forensic scientist accredited by the UK Home Office as an authorised analyst from 1972, and from 1996 until I retired in 2005 was Head of Physical Evidence at the National Crime and Operations Faculty (NCOF), Bramshill. NCOF is a UK wide organisation funded by the Police Service to provide expertise and operational support in the most complex crimes of violence such as rape series, stranger murders and the murders of children or vulnerable adults. During my NCOF duties I reviewed approximately 235 undetected murders or murder series in the UK and worldwide.
I have reviewed cases at the request of the authorities in the USA, Canada, Holland, Germany, Portugal, South Africa and many in Australia including the Claremont series of murders and the proven Miscarriage of Justice known as the ‘Andrew Mallard case’ (murder of Pamela Lawrence, Perth 1994).
I have published and lectured extensively world wide on these subjects, and have given keynote lectures at over 15 investigative, scientific or education conferences. I was the scientific advisor to the 2005 UK Parliamentary Select Committee on Forensic Science.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 22, 2021, 08:20:20 PM
The majority of offences would be by family members & persons known to the family.

So, statistically, it's more likely that someone known to Maddie was involved rather than a stranger.


No it's not 'more likely'. at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 22, 2021, 08:27:23 PM

No it's not 'more likely'. at all.

Statistically, it is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 22, 2021, 08:33:34 PM
Statistically, it is.

From https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Statistics_2_Perpetrators.pdf (https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Statistics_2_Perpetrators.pdf)

About 90% of children who are victims
of abuse know their abuser.

Only 10% of sexually abused children are abused
by a stranger.

Approximately 30% of children who are sexually
abused are abused by family members.

The younger the victim, the more likely it is that
the abuser is a family member. Of those molesting
a child under six, 50% were family members.

Family members also accounted for 23% of those
abusing children ages 12 to 17

About 60% of children who are
sexually abused are abused by the
people the family trusts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 22, 2021, 08:35:08 PM
From https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Statistics_2_Perpetrators.pdf (https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Statistics_2_Perpetrators.pdf)

About 90% of children who are victims
of abuse know their abuser.

Only 10% of sexually abused children are abused
by a stranger.

Approximately 30% of children who are sexually
abused are abused by family members.

The younger the victim, the more likely it is that
the abuser is a family member. Of those molesting
a child under six, 50% were family members.

Family members also accounted for 23% of those
abusing children ages 12 to 17

About 60% of children who are
sexually abused are abused by the
people the family trusts.
[/quote

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 22, 2021, 08:37:01 PM
What has that got to do with Madeleine?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 22, 2021, 08:45:51 PM
What has that got to do with Madeleine?

Just that if she was the victim of child sexual abuse then statistically it is more likely that someone close to the family was the perpetrator. It's not a scenario that I've seen any evidence for aside from the Gaspar statement (which would not prove anything in a courtroom).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 22, 2021, 08:51:09 PM
Just that if she was the victim of child sexual abuse then statistically it is more likely that someone close to the family was the perpetrator. It's not a scenario that I've seen any evidence for aside from the Gaspar statement (which would not prove anything in a courtroom).

I would say statistically its most likely Maddie was abducted by a stranger... You are misusing the statistics
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 22, 2021, 09:01:08 PM
I would say statistically its most likely Maddie was abducted by a stranger... You are misusing the statistics

Good luck finding the statistics to back that claim up!

I'm not goading you by the way. I genuinely do not believe the statistics support your opinion.... but also remember they are just statistics. Stranger abduction does happen.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 22, 2021, 09:03:39 PM
Good luck finding the statistics to back that claim up!

I'm not goading you by the way. I genuinely do not believe the statistics support your opinion.... but also remember they are just statistics. Stranger abduction does happen.

Ill post my explanation tomorrow... No offence taken
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 22, 2021, 10:20:53 PM
From https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Statistics_2_Perpetrators.pdf (https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Statistics_2_Perpetrators.pdf)

About 90% of children who are victims
of abuse know their abuser.

Only 10% of sexually abused children are abused
by a stranger.

Approximately 30% of children who are sexually
abused are abused by family members.

The younger the victim, the more likely it is that
the abuser is a family member. Of those molesting
a child under six, 50% were family members.


Family members also accounted for 23% of those
abusing children ages 12 to 17

About 60% of children who are
sexually abused are abused by the
people the family trusts.
And 50% weren’t.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 22, 2021, 10:37:33 PM
And 50% weren’t.

And "only" 1 in 10 victims were abused by a stranger.(I don't like the use of the word "only" on that pdf. 1 in 10 is one too many imo!!)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 22, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
Just that if she was the victim of child sexual abuse then statistically it is more likely that someone close to the family was the perpetrator. It's not a scenario that I've seen any evidence for aside from the Gaspar statement (which would not prove anything in a courtroom).
If she was abducted by a paedophile then statistically she is far more likely to have been a victim of child abuse than had she not been.  Statistically Claudia Lawrence is far more likely to have been run over than abducted by a stranger.  2800 random people are far more likely to die of cancer than in two skyscrapers in NY that are destroyed by planes flown by terrorists. Statistics are not going to help anyone solve this mystery so quite pointless introducing them to the discussion .  IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 22, 2021, 10:40:41 PM
And "only" 1 in 10 victims were abused by a stranger.(I don't like the use of the word "only" on that pdf. 1 in 10 is one too many imo!!)
That’s a large number, if thousands are abused each year.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 22, 2021, 10:43:01 PM
If she was abducted by a paedophile then statistically she is far more likely to have been a victim of child abuse than had she not been.  Statistically Claudia Lawrence is far more likely to have been run over than abducted by a stranger.  2800 random people are far more likely to die of cancer than in two skyscrapers in NY that are destroyed by planes flown by terrorists. Statistics are not going to help anyone solve this mystery so quite pointless introducing them to the discussion .  IMO

I agree. Evidence is the key not statistics.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2021, 10:56:35 PM
And in  the vast majority of those cases the abuse is carried out by a family member or someone known to the family.

Bearing in mind that this thread is about Goncalo Amaral - why do you think it is appropriate to be discussing abused children in a family setting?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2021, 11:00:11 PM
What on earth do you mean?

The links weren't to "perverts" but to experts in crime, criminology and forensics:

David Canter
PhD, FAcSS, Hon FBPsS, FRSM, FAPA, C.Psychol, MA (music composition)
Applied social psychologist, creator of Investigative Psychology. Emeritus Professor at The University of Liverpool,
Visiting Professor at Liverpool Hope University.
 Internationally known for introducing scientific psychology into ‘offender profiling’ and developing the field of Investigative Psychology beyond those origins,

Dave Barclay (Forensics)
I am currently an Honorary Professor at the University of Hull, and I am on the Advisory Board of the International Homicide Investigators Association, an organisation funded by the US Government.
I was a practising forensic scientist accredited by the UK Home Office as an authorised analyst from 1972, and from 1996 until I retired in 2005 was Head of Physical Evidence at the National Crime and Operations Faculty (NCOF), Bramshill. NCOF is a UK wide organisation funded by the Police Service to provide expertise and operational support in the most complex crimes of violence such as rape series, stranger murders and the murders of children or vulnerable adults. During my NCOF duties I reviewed approximately 235 undetected murders or murder series in the UK and worldwide.
I have reviewed cases at the request of the authorities in the USA, Canada, Holland, Germany, Portugal, South Africa and many in Australia including the Claremont series of murders and the proven Miscarriage of Justice known as the ‘Andrew Mallard case’ (murder of Pamela Lawrence, Perth 1994).
I have published and lectured extensively world wide on these subjects, and have given keynote lectures at over 15 investigative, scientific or education conferences. I was the scientific advisor to the 2005 UK Parliamentary Select Committee on Forensic Science.


What is the big hang up about paedophilia and paedophiles;  this thread concerns Goncalo Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on August 22, 2021, 11:01:31 PM
In other news, Amaral is apparently releasing a new book in October. I believe Isabelle said it's an autobiography but somehow news of the book got lost within 90 mins of pomposity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmIJQ5CzpNU&list=LL&index=1
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2021, 11:04:14 PM
From https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Statistics_2_Perpetrators.pdf (https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Statistics_2_Perpetrators.pdf)

About 90% of children who are victims
of abuse know their abuser.

Only 10% of sexually abused children are abused
by a stranger.

Approximately 30% of children who are sexually
abused are abused by family members.

The younger the victim, the more likely it is that
the abuser is a family member. Of those molesting
a child under six, 50% were family members.

Family members also accounted for 23% of those
abusing children ages 12 to 17

About 60% of children who are
sexually abused are abused by the
people the family trusts.

Why do you feel the need to inform us of this - how do you think it relates to a thread which is quite clearly about Goncalo Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 22, 2021, 11:04:30 PM
In other news, Amaral is apparently releasing a new book in October. I believe Isabelle said it's an autobiography but somehow news of the book got lost within 90 mins of pomposity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmIJQ5CzpNU&list=LL&index=1
LOL.  I lasted 60 seconds.  Does it really go on for 90 minutes and did you actually listen to the whole thing?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 22, 2021, 11:12:24 PM
LOL.  I lasted 60 seconds.  Does it really go on for 90 minutes and did you actually listen to the whole thing?

I managed 1:10minutes ~ life is too short!

You deserve a medal if you managed to stick it out Misty.  But so far ~ not much mention of the next best seller?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on August 22, 2021, 11:27:16 PM
LOL.  I lasted 60 seconds.  Does it really go on for 90 minutes and did you actually listen to the whole thing?

It's actually 114mins but I quit after 90 & just fast forwarded, checking at 3 or 4 min gaps. I think I need my head examined.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on August 22, 2021, 11:32:43 PM
I managed 1:10minutes ~ life is too short!

You deserve a medal if you managed to stick it out Misty.  But so far ~ not much mention of the next best seller?

I've heard nothing for the last few years since it was reported on CmoMM that Amaral was busy in Switzerland writing a book. The cynic in me thinks the release date may be timed to coincide with the questioning of Brueckner & renewed interest in Amaral's role in the case. Isabelle didn't anticipate it being published in English.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2021, 01:14:09 AM
I've heard nothing for the last few years since it was reported on CmoMM that Amaral was busy in Switzerland writing a book. The cynic in me thinks the release date may be timed to coincide with the questioning of Brueckner & renewed interest in Amaral's role in the case. Isabelle didn't anticipate it being published in English.

I remember reports that he was in Switzerland.  I thought at the time he was maybe touching base with his Swiss banker.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on August 23, 2021, 01:47:25 AM
I remember reports that he was in Switzerland.  I thought at the time he was maybe touching base with his Swiss banker.

Brueckner also has a connection in Switzerland.
According to media reports, he was also travelling from Switzerland to Italy in 2018 whilst on the run from German police & had had his ID documents stolen.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8395677/Italian-police-set-trap-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2021, 02:39:54 AM
It was during this interview on Portuguese TV:

I'm to take your word for that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 23, 2021, 02:42:32 AM
I'm to take your word for that?

Absolutely. I have to work at 8am!! I'm sure you can find it on You Tube.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2021, 03:16:19 AM
It was during this interview on Portuguese TV:
Requested cite refused for this - will reinstate when it is given
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2021, 12:49:17 PM

"It wouldn't be the first time a case has been solved by constructing a suspect," he (Amaral) said.  https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15950597/madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-b-jail-cartoons/

I think he can speak with authority in doing precisely that!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 25, 2021, 01:22:26 AM
Brueckner is not MY prime suspect.

Where did Amaral call him "paedophile of the month" ~ cite please.

It was on the Portugal TV interview I posted the screenshot for. James Bogart mentions it here 4:32 - 4:45 and I have seen somewhere a longer clip of the interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSykp_TtlNY&t=288s
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on August 25, 2021, 11:46:41 AM
A reminder that the topic is Goncalo Amaral. Please restrict comments to this subject otherwise posts will be removed. Mods please note!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 25, 2021, 04:36:43 PM
https://www.portugalresident.com/goncalo-amaral-is-back-pointing-finger-squarely-at-madeleine-mccanns-parents/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 25, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
https://www.portugalresident.com/goncalo-amaral-is-back-pointing-finger-squarely-at-madeleine-mccanns-parents/

When exactly was it that "Gonçalo Amaral is ‘back’ ever stopped to pause breath … pointing finger squarely at Madeleine McCann’s parents".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 25, 2021, 05:15:36 PM
https://www.portugalresident.com/goncalo-amaral-is-back-pointing-finger-squarely-at-madeleine-mccanns-parents/

In the article amaral says only that the McCanns are responsiblle for Maddies disappearance... That isnt libellous.

They also dont realise that if the  mccanns are successful at the ECHR... Then the Portuguese libel case could be reheard
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 25, 2021, 05:31:20 PM
In the article amaral says only that the McCanns are responsiblle for Maddies disappearance... That isnt libellous.

They also dont realise that if the  mccanns are successful at the ECHR... Then the Portuguese libel case could be reheard

I think the article makes it pretty clear he stands by his thesis contained in his book.

I doubt if he cares one way or the aother about the libel case or any new cases that might arise.  I believe his assets were unfrozen years ago?  If so I guess he has transferred them into the names of others just to be on the safe side  8(0(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 25, 2021, 06:06:47 PM
I think the article makes it pretty clear he stands by his thesis contained in his book.

I doubt if he cares one way or the aother about the libel case or any new cases that might arise.  I believe his assets were unfrozen years ago?  If so I guess he has transferred them into the names of others just to be on the safe side  8(0(*
He may be implying it but hes not saying it...and he hasnt for a long time.
I dont know if his assets have been unfrozen... Do you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 25, 2021, 06:49:43 PM
When exactly was it that "Gonçalo Amaral is ‘back’ ever stopped to pause breath … pointing finger squarely at Madeleine McCann’s parents".


Amaral says Brueckner is innocent,  how would he know that?   Did he interview him?   Or did he not bother when the Police Officers found he wasn't in.

I find it Bizarre he can say such things.   He is just protecting his book.

I also find it strange that only Kate's fingerprints were found on the window.   So the cleaner didn't touch the window frame when cleaning the window?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 25, 2021, 08:14:50 PM
He may be implying it but hes not saying it...and he hasnt for a long time.
I dont know if his assets have been unfrozen... Do you

The article refers to his assets being unfrozen.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 25, 2021, 08:41:49 PM
The article refers to his assets being unfrozen.

I wonder if its true... I didnt see that in thhe article
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 25, 2021, 08:45:25 PM

Amaral says Brueckner is innocent,  how would he know that?   Did he interview him?   Or did he not bother when the Police Officers found he wasn't in.

I find it Bizarre he can say such things.   He is just protecting his book.

I also find it strange that only Kate's fingerprints were found on the window.   So the cleaner didn't touch the window frame when cleaning the window?

It is what he believes.

In much the same way people assert that the McCann's are innocent.

With regards to cleaning a glass window people tend to want to avoid touching the glass with their fingers. It's better cleaned if the only contact is a cloth, imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 25, 2021, 08:50:00 PM
It is what he believes.

In much the same way people assert that the McCann's are innocent.

With regards to cleaning a glass window people tend to want to avoid touching the glass with their fingers. It's better cleaned if the only contact is a cloth, imo.


Perhaps the ECHR will shut him up
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 25, 2021, 08:55:32 PM

Perhaps the ECHR will shut him up

I actually believe Amaral's opinion, even if wrong, is a reasonable opinion to hold given the evidence available to him. The world won't be a better place if large sums of money spent on legal fees are used to silence opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 25, 2021, 08:57:30 PM
I actually believe Amaral's opinion, even if wrong, is a reasonable opinion to hold given the evidence available to him. The world won't be a better place if large sums of money spent on legal fees are used to silence opinion.

The world wil be a better place if people like amaral are stopped fron commiting defamation...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 25, 2021, 09:04:56 PM
The world wil be a better place if people like amaral are stopped fron commiting defamation...

How do you know for sure that he is? What if his opinion is correct? Surely you see he has valid reasons to hold that opinion even if he is wrong?

Furthermore Voltaire springs to mind here!

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 25, 2021, 09:19:46 PM
How do you know for sure that he is? What if his opinion is correct? Surely you see he has valid reasons to hold that opinion even if he is wrong?

Furthermore Voltaire springs to mind here!
Are you saying that it is acceptable to defame someone with your opinion even if it is wrong?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on August 25, 2021, 09:23:28 PM
Are you saying that it is acceptable to defame someone with your opinion even if it is wrong?

But who is to say it's wrong ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 25, 2021, 09:26:31 PM
But who is to say it's wrong ?

BWK said it could be wrong .
And it could be.
So while it could be right or wrong, does anyone have the right to defame someone without knowing whether their opinion is right or wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on August 25, 2021, 09:28:31 PM
BWK said it could be wrong .
And it could be.
So while it could be right or wrong, does anyone have the right to defame someone without knowing whether their opinion is right or wrong.

It would appear so, in the absence of a court ruling to the contrary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 25, 2021, 09:30:23 PM
It would appear so, in the absence of a court ruling to the contrary.

Interesting theory.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 25, 2021, 09:31:26 PM
Are you saying that it is acceptable to defame someone with your opinion even if it is wrong?

No I am saying people should be free to express a reasonable opinion. If the opinion can be reasonably justified with the evidence that is available to them then I believe that shutting that opinion down should not be the preserve of people with enough money to pay huge sums in legal fees. Justice and freedom of expression should be equitable but also reasonable.

Furthermore as I said it’s worth considering Voltaire.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 25, 2021, 09:52:22 PM
No I am saying people should be free to express a reasonable opinion. If the opinion can be reasonably justified with the evidence that is available to them then I believe that shutting that opinion down should not be the preserve of people with enough money to pay huge sums in legal fees. Justice and freedom of expression should be equitable but also reasonable.

Furthermore as I said it’s worth considering Voltaire.

So you do believe that anyone who has an opinion that a named person is guilty of a crime has the right to name that person as being guilty of that crime without having to present any evidence in court.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 25, 2021, 09:55:12 PM
No I am saying people should be free to express a reasonable opinion. If the opinion can be reasonably justified with the evidence that is available to them then I believe that shutting that opinion down should not be the preserve of people with enough money to pay huge sums in legal fees. Justice and freedom of expression should be equitable but also reasonable.

Furthermore as I said it’s worth considering Voltaire.

As I have said many times. The ECHR will decide if his opinion is supprted by evidence... Thats one of their tests.... I think you will find his opinion isnt and he should realise that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 25, 2021, 10:30:56 PM
So you do believe that anyone who has an opinion that a named person is guilty of a crime has the right to name that person as being guilty of that crime without having to present any evidence in court.

No I don’t.

My belief is that if a person has reasonable grounds to form an opinion as to a named person’s alleged responsibility for said crime then they should be free to say “I suspect named person is guilty”. Without a court case they can not say “named person is guilty”.

I don’t believe Wolter’s should say “CB killed Madeleine McCann”. I do believe he should be free to say “I believe CB killed Madeleine McCann”
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 25, 2021, 10:33:27 PM
As I have said many times. The ECHR will decide if his opinion is supprted by evidence... Thats one of their tests.... I think you will find his opinion isnt and he should realise that

If you respect the ECHR as the arbiter on permissible opinion then you’ll have to wait for any case against Amaral to conclude before you express an opinion either way.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on August 25, 2021, 10:34:10 PM
No I don’t.

My belief is that if a person has reasonable grounds to form an opinion as to a named person’s alleged responsibility for said crime them they should be free to say “I suspect named person is guilty”. Without a court case they can not say “named person is guilty”.

I don’t believe Wolter’s should say “CB killed Madeleine McCann”. I do believe he should be free to say “I believe CB killed Madeleine McCann”

Perhaps you should give the same advice to Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 25, 2021, 10:39:21 PM
It’s my opinion that the principle should also apply to Amaral. He can not say “the parents are guilty of staging an abduction and concealing a corpse” without a court ruling on said crime. I do believe however that he should be free to express his opinion that this is what he believed happened.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 25, 2021, 10:49:56 PM
No I don’t.

My belief is that if a person has reasonable grounds to form an opinion as to a named person’s alleged responsibility for said crime then they should be free to say “I suspect named person is guilty”. Without a court case they can not say “named person is guilty”.

I don’t believe Wolter’s should say “CB killed Madeleine McCann”. I do believe he should be free to say “I believe CB killed Madeleine McCann”

Well expressed!  8@??)(
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 26, 2021, 07:20:25 AM
It’s my opinion that the principle should also apply to Amaral. He can not say “the parents are guilty of staging an abduction and concealing a corpse” without a court ruling on said crime. I do believe however that he should be free to express his opinion that this is what he believed happened.
He does say that though.  His book presents certain claims as facts.  Eg:  Madeleine died in the apartment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 26, 2021, 08:06:06 AM
If you respect the ECHR as the arbiter on permissible opinion then you’ll have to wait for any case against Amaral to conclude before you express an opinion either way.

Amarals opinion is based on his misunderstanding of the evidence... I knnow that already.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 26, 2021, 08:37:24 AM
Amarals opinion is based on his misunderstanding of the evidence... I knnow that already.

That’s just your opinion. It’s not shared by others who are also well grounded in criminology, forensics , investigative methodology and criminal profiling.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 26, 2021, 09:10:18 AM
That’s just your opinion. It’s not shared by others who are also well grounded in criminology, forensics , investigative methodology and criminal profiling.

It isnt..Amaral claimed the alerts confirmed maddies body had been in apartment and he thought the DNA confirmed maddie DNA...neither of these is true. have you raed his book...he hasnt got a clue. So which experts support his evauation of this evidence...none
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 26, 2021, 09:10:57 AM
It is what he believes.

In much the same way people assert that the McCann's are innocent.

With regards to cleaning a glass window people tend to want to avoid touching the glass with their fingers. It's better cleaned if the only contact is a cloth, imo.

I have never seen a cleaner clean the windows,  usually they just change the beds and towels and tidy up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 26, 2021, 09:13:03 AM
No I don’t.

My belief is that if a person has reasonable grounds to form an opinion as to a named person’s alleged responsibility for said crime then they should be free to say “I suspect named person is guilty”. Without a court case they can not say “named person is guilty”.

I don’t believe Wolter’s should say “CB killed Madeleine McCann”. I do believe he should be free to say “I believe CB killed Madeleine McCann”


Amaral states as fact that Madeleine was dead in the apartment,  based on the DNA evidence and the dog alerts.  He doesn't say he 'believes' Madeleine died and the McCann's staged an abduction he says that 'Madeleine died' and the McCann's staged an abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 26, 2021, 09:22:54 AM
It is what he believes.

In much the same way people assert that the McCann's are innocent.

With regards to cleaning a glass window people tend to want to avoid touching the glass with their fingers. It's better cleaned if the only contact is a cloth, imo.

I assert the McCann's innocent by reading the facts of the case.   There is nothing to say that Amaral even spoke to CB.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on August 26, 2021, 11:14:02 AM
I assert the McCann's innocent by reading the facts of the case.   There is nothing to say that Amaral even spoke to CB.

That is your opinion. I believe you should be free to express it. But it doesn’t prove anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 30, 2021, 08:37:33 PM
Maddie; Basta de Mentiras
Amaral's new book will be released on 13th October. Will he be sued I wonder?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 30, 2021, 09:12:29 PM
Maddie; Basta de Mentiras
Amaral's new book will be released on 13th October. Will he be sued I wonder?
If his book is full of lies and unsubstantiated accusations I hope he will.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 30, 2021, 10:43:31 PM
Strange.  When you google the book’s title the only thing that comes up is what appears to be an advertisement on twitter puporting to be linked to the well known chain el Cortes Ingles, yet when you visit their website and put in the book title - nothing.  Where can one find a pre-order link, or any information at all about this book apart from twitter please?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 30, 2021, 10:52:35 PM
Here’s a list of all the books you can buy by someone with the surname Amaral from Cortes Ingles - note, Gonc’s bestselling book is not listed, and strangely despite “all” the publicity on twitter  neither is his new book.  Why not?  Is pre-ordering not a thing in Portugal?

https://www.elcorteingles.pt/search/?s=amaral&hierarchy=&deep_search=&stype=text_box
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on October 01, 2021, 05:58:06 AM
If his book is full of lies and unsubstantiated accusations I hope he will.
Yeah and look how the last legal action turned out,despite Davels ramblings the upcoming judgement (If ever there is one) has no bearing on Amaral, else he wouldn't release another.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 01, 2021, 07:11:20 AM
Yeah and look how the last legal action turned out,despite Davels ramblings the upcoming judgement (If ever there is one) has no bearing on Amaral, else he wouldn't release another.
If the ECHR find in the McCanns’ favour it should be a shoo-in.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2021, 07:55:33 AM
Yeah and look how the last legal action turned out,despite Davels ramblings the upcoming judgement (If ever there is one) has no bearing on Amaral, else he wouldn't release another.

Argument from ignorance... I won't bother explaining it to you again.
What's in his new book...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2021, 07:57:29 AM
Maddie; Basta de Mentiras
Amaral's new book will be released on 13th October. Will he be sued I wonder?
Depends what's, in it.... Do you have, any idea
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 01, 2021, 08:18:25 AM
The alleged publisher is called Contraponto.  No google search I have done for this publisher comes up with a website for said publisher yet Chief McCann troll has allegedly emailed them for a copy of the book.  Perhaps she means the California based publisher Counterpoint?  Curiously there is no mention of this hugely exciting new title on their website either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2021, 08:29:28 AM
If the book does exist I predict sceptics will be very dissapointed with it's content.  The lies will relate to CB and he will be very careful about repeating his claims Re the McCanns
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on October 01, 2021, 09:12:26 AM
The alleged publisher is called Contraponto.  No google search I have done for this publisher comes up with a website for said publisher yet Chief McCann troll has allegedly emailed them for a copy of the book.  Perhaps she means the California based publisher Counterpoint?  Curiously there is no mention of this hugely exciting new title on their website either.
https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/ (https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/)

https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/pesquisa?q=Maddie%3B+Basta+de+Mentiras (https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/pesquisa?q=Maddie%3B+Basta+de+Mentiras)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 01, 2021, 09:21:03 AM
https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/ (https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/)

https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/pesquisa?q=Maddie%3B+Basta+de+Mentiras (https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/pesquisa?q=Maddie%3B+Basta+de+Mentiras)
Your googling skills are superior to mine, however still no sign of that book on their site yet.  Weird that publicity has started (albeit one picture on Twitter) but no links to pre-order.  Perhaps there is a reason that will become clear in the fullness of time...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 01, 2021, 09:23:02 AM
If the book does exist I predict sceptics will be very dissapointed with it's content.  The lies will relate to CB and he will be very careful about repeating his claims Re the McCanns
Perhaps it will be Wolters' turn to sue him...  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on October 01, 2021, 09:29:17 AM
Your googling skills are superior to mine, however still no sign of that book on their site yet.  Weird that publicity has started (albeit one picture on Twitter) but no links to pre-order.  Perhaps there is a reason that will become clear in the fullness of time...
Around two weeks to go to blast-off, so better start the countdown watch before the explosion begins.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Erngath on October 01, 2021, 09:43:51 AM
Natasha Don of the Portugal Resident has a short article about the new book, complete with a photo of the book. 
It's called MADDIE  BASTA DE MENTIRAS.
Also has a photo of little Madeleine on the cover.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 01, 2021, 09:49:49 AM
Natasha Don of the Portugal Resident has a short article about the new book, complete with a photo of the book. 
It's called MADDIE  BASTA DE MENTIRAS.
Also has a photo of little Madeleine on the cover.
I shall look forward to the serialization that will no doubt follow in the run up to launch date.  No point publishing a book unless you milk it for all it's worth!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on October 01, 2021, 09:56:45 AM
https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/ (https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/)

https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/pesquisa?q=Maddie%3B+Basta+de+Mentiras (https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/pesquisa?q=Maddie%3B+Basta+de+Mentiras)

Thanks Myster.

https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/
Search results by: MADDIE; NO MORE LIES
Books (0)    eBooks (0)    Authors (0)    Other results (0)

Looks like fans of the author will have to wait a little longer for him to set the record straight.  I'm still of the opinion he should be doing that under oath and in a court of law.  But even then who could trust him tell us which lies he isn't going to tell anymore.  One of the last times he testified under oath he continued with his lies and has the criminal conviction for perjury which categorically proves it.

I really want to hear his excuse for why he lied about Brueckner's physical appearance and the cartoon covered camper van which not another person has mentioned in any context.
Should be interesting.

If the publisher isn't CONTRAPONTO I wonder who is?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 01, 2021, 10:07:24 AM
Thanks Myster.

https://www.contrapontoeditores.pt/
Search results by: MADDIE; NO MORE LIES
Books (0)    eBooks (0)    Authors (0)    Other results (0)

Looks like fans of the author will have to wait a little longer for him to set the record straight.  I'm still of the opinion he should be doing that under oath and in a court of law.  But even then who could trust him tell us which lies he isn't going to tell anymore.  One of the last times he testified under oath he continued with his lies and has the criminal conviction for perjury which categorically proves it.

I really want to hear his excuse for why he lied about Brueckner's physical appearance and the cartoon covered camper van which not another person has mentioned in any context.
Should be interesting.

If the publisher isn't CONTRAPONTO I wonder who is?
It is the publisher, they just don't come up on the first page of google results (well they didn't when I googled them). 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2021, 10:56:42 AM
From the new book...


In a statement sent to the newsrooms, the editor writes: "In the so-called «Caso Maddie», the only certainty is that, on the night of May 3, 2007, after 10 pm, in Praia da Luz, in the Algarve, it was given a disappearance alert for a British child, aged approximately 4 years"





Back pedaling
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 01, 2021, 11:45:40 AM
yet another Madeleine-related book not to put on my reading list, but good to see that supporters are so interested.  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 01, 2021, 11:54:02 AM
yet another Madeleine-related book not to put on my reading list, but good to see that supporters are so interested.  ?{)(**

He was thought by some to be keeping quiet until the ECHR verdict was announced. It seems like that idea was wrong. Wishful thinking perhaps...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2021, 01:17:11 PM
He was thought by some to be keeping quiet until the ECHR verdict was announced. It seems like that idea was wrong. Wishful thinking perhaps...
I think you are imagining things... Who has said he's waiting for the echr verdict... I think you are making things up.

He needs to bring a book out now because after the verdict his credibility will be zero imo.

I've said he's been quiet and he has... This book will not be another repeat of his last one.. I can't see him making any defamatory claims.. He knows he's already in trouble...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 01, 2021, 01:29:43 PM
I think you are imagining things... Who has said he's waiting for the echr verdict... I think you are making things up.

He needs to bring a book out now because after the verdict his credibility will be zero imo.

I've said he's been quiet and he has... This book will not be another repeat of his last one.. I can't see him making any defamatory claims.. He knows he's already in trouble...

Your forecasting powers aren't the best, of course. I remember you being convinced that the McCanns had won the libel trial;
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2787.msg157236#msg157236

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 01, 2021, 02:09:22 PM
yet another Madeleine-related book not to put on my reading list, but good to see that supporters are so interested.  ?{)(**
Don't pretend you won't be lapping it all up, even if second-hand. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2021, 02:27:35 PM
Your forecasting powers aren't the best, of course. I remember you being convinced that the McCanns had won the libel trial;
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2787.msg157236#msg157236
You are mistaken again... That post refers to the first court case which I felt.. Correctly... Amaral would win.

When they bought the old guard in for the appeal I said things could now go dfferently
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 01, 2021, 02:41:40 PM
You are mistaken again... That post refers to the first court case which I felt.. Correctly... Amaral would win.

When they bought the old guard in for the appeal I said things could now go dfferently

What old guard?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on October 01, 2021, 03:05:27 PM
You are mistaken again... That post refers to the first court case which I felt.. Correctly... Amaral would win.

When they bought the old guard in for the appeal I said things could now go dfferently

How's the ECHR case going Davel?  Has it been dumped yet as I suspect it will be?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2021, 03:27:24 PM
How's the ECHR case going Davel?  Has it been dumped yet as I suspect it will be?

You are obviously not up to date with what's going on.. LOL
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2021, 03:29:08 PM
What old guard?

The old guard that doesn't understand how to apply ECHR law
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 01, 2021, 03:57:12 PM
The old guard that doesn't understand how to apply ECHR law

As opposed to Maria Emília de Melo e Castro who tried to apply restrictions under Article 10 to a retired police inspector's freedom of expression?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2021, 04:10:26 PM
As opposed to Maria Emília de Melo e Castro who tried to apply restrictions under Article 10 to a retired police inspector's freedom of expression?

I think you are mistaken again.. It was the duty of reserve she felt applied... The SC felt it didnt... Whos right and why
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 01, 2021, 04:45:53 PM
I think you are mistaken again.. It was the duty of reserve she felt applied... The SC felt it didnt... Whos right and why

The Appeal Judges said;

irrespective of the reasons given by the appellant for publication, it is hardly understandable that a civil servant, even more a retired one, should carry on his silence and reserve duties, thus limiting the exercise of his right to opinion as to the interpretation of facts already made public by the j udicial authority and widely discussed (actually largely at the instigation of the protagonists themselves) in national and international media.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Decision_19_04_2016.htm

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2021, 04:58:13 PM
The Appeal Judges said;

irrespective of the reasons given by the appellant for publication, it is hardly understandable that a civil servant, even more a retired one, should carry on his silence and reserve duties, thus limiting the exercise of his right to opinion as to the interpretation of facts already made public by the j udicial authority and widely discussed (actually largely at the instigation of the protagonists themselves) in national and international media.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Decision_19_04_2016.htm

So I'm correct... It's the duty of reserve that the appeal court felt should not apply... Thanks for confirming.
Note article 10 limits free speech
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on October 01, 2021, 06:02:54 PM
How's the ECHR case going Davel?  Has it been dumped yet as I suspect it will be?

Its on the back burner of cases, there are cases of note pending having been communicated to the government in 2017, so 4 yrs, the McCann/Healey as only just been communicated this year.

Info is from an updated Sept 21 press release.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 01, 2021, 09:10:03 PM
 suppose one day it might rise to the top of the pile.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on October 02, 2021, 09:49:29 AM
suppose one day it might rise to the top of the pile.

This decade ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 02, 2021, 10:09:20 AM
This decade ?

If it takes that long, then there are a few people here who won't be here to hear the result - if you get what I mean.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 02, 2021, 03:58:49 PM
Why is Amaral claiming Madeleine had speech difficulties in his new book?  And even if she did (where's the evidence?) what would that have to do with her disappearance? 

Are there no depths to which this repulsive toad won't sink in his desperate scrabbling to make a living off the back of this child?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 02, 2021, 04:40:51 PM
Why is Amaral claiming Madeleine had speech difficulties in his new book?  And even if she did (where's the evidence?) what would that have to do with her disappearance? 

Are there no depths to which this repulsive toad won't sink in his desperate scrabbling to make a living off the back of this child?
Imo the man is a complete fool... I haven't seen any evidence to support the opinion he was a successful cop
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on October 02, 2021, 05:42:33 PM
Maddie: Enough of Lies!
SYNOPSIS
In the so-called 'Caso Maddie', the only certainty is that, on the night of May 3, 2007, after 10 pm, in Praia da Luz, in the Algarve, a warning was given of the disappearance of a British child, with the approximate age of 4 years.
Kidnapping planned? Abduction motivated by sexual gratification? Voluntary disappearance? Responsibilities of Parents or Others with Child Custody Duty? Accidental death (with or without taking sleeping pills)? Death in the hours or days before the disappearance alert? It is not known. But there is already a suspect. A suspect was built without even proving the existence of an abduction and, above all, without knowing the victim.

Today, a lot is known about a suspect, whether truth or lies, but little, or almost nothing, about the victim. It is not known, for example, whether he was the target of abuse, as the Mallorca episode seems to suggest. On the other hand, Maddie seemed to denote speech difficulties for a 4-year-old. But the child's clinical history is missing, which is a mystery. Neither the parents gave it nor the British authorities allowed access to it. What do the British police know? What about detectives hired by parents? Until when will the Portuguese justice maintain its neutrality in a case whose jurisdiction is its own?

After millions of euros and pounds spent, the family insists on the abduction thesis, a pedophile is sought, the German police investigates incongruously and the case remains where it was in 2007. Who is hiding the truth? The mysteriously missing child deserves an objective and serious investigation.

Gonçalo Amaral
Gonçalo Amaral was born in 1959, in Torredeita, Viseu. He studied Engineering, but eventually graduated in Legal and Criminal Sciences at the Faculty of Law of Lisbon. He joined the Public Administration in 1973, at the age of 14, as a bellman, in the Armed Forces Social Services. In November 1981, he started the training course for agents of the Judiciary Police (PJ), and became an agent the following year. In 1997/1998, he attended the PJ sub-inspectors course, being ranked first among 100 students. In 2000/2001 he completed the PJ Coordinators course. He performed functions in Lisbon, the Algarve and the Azores. For years, he effectively pursued all types of violent and organized crime: thefts, robberies, murders, drug trafficking. He has had an unblemished professional career, widely recognized by his colleagues and superiors, as well as by judicial and prosecutors, by court officials and lawyers, with whom he has had the pleasure of dealing with for many years. Its maxim “justice takes place in silence”. He was operational coordinator of the investigations of the “Caso Maddie”, between May 3 and October 2, 2007, having on that occasion been removed from the investigation, in an unprecedented act in the history of the Judiciary Police. He retired on July 1, 2008, after 27 years of police career, in order to regain full freedom of expression in the case he investigated and to contribute, as far as possible, to the discovery of the material truth and for the realization of justice. He has published the books Maddie – The Truth of the Lie (2008), The English Gag (2010) and Lives without Defense (2011).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 02, 2021, 06:15:22 PM

I am now feeling ill again.  Have it, why don't you.  You all make me feel sick.  This Forum has lost the plot.  So there is no longer any point in discussing this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 02, 2021, 06:50:42 PM
I am now feeling ill again.  Have it, why don't you.  You all make me feel sick.  This Forum has lost the plot.  So there is no longer any point in discussing this.

There's a plot?
When I signed up I was given no indication. that there was plot we had to adhere to
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 02, 2021, 07:02:40 PM
There's a plot?
When I signed up I was given no indication. that there was plot we had to adhere to

Silly old you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 02, 2021, 07:16:15 PM
There's a plot?
When I signed up I was given no indication. that there was plot we had to adhere to
Lost the plot - to star behaving in a strange or silly way

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/lose-the-plot

TBH I don’t think this is a recent phenomenon.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 02, 2021, 08:27:31 PM
Lost the plot - to star behaving in a strange or silly way

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/lose-the-plot

TBH I don’t think this is a recent phenomenon.

It isn't.  But it is frightfully usable when there isn't anything else to say.  Fools and Horses.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on October 03, 2021, 07:20:48 PM
Here is a translation of the index of Amaral’s book.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 03, 2021, 07:25:00 PM
Sounds as if there'l be a lot  for supporters to dissect
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 03, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
Sounds like Gonc has lost the plot as well.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 03, 2021, 08:30:16 PM
Sounds as if there'l be a lot  for supporters to dissect

Sounds hilarious...Im looking forward to it...i cant see how anyone with an ounce of sense can take him seriously.

as I predicted...no more...it is confirmed maddie died in the apartment
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on October 11, 2021, 08:52:29 AM
Amaral has bunched together the wild accusations which are circling the internet.    What an idiot.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on October 11, 2021, 12:07:53 PM
Amaral has bunched together the wild accusations which are circling the internet.    What an idiot.

Well seems to me with some posts on here -  GA has hit a raw nerve with the abuse he receives .

Best form of defence is attack, comes to mind - OK can understand the mccs have a thorne in there side .

But why you.

No one knows as yet if GA is  right in what he is saying -  the key is in what happened at the beginning.

He was there he knows a lot more than you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 11, 2021, 12:11:13 PM
Well seems to me with some posts on here -  GA has hit a raw nerve with the abuse he receives .

Best form of defence is attack, comes to mind - OK can understand the mccs have a thorne in there side .

But why you.

No one knows as yet if GA is  right in what he is saying -  the key is in what happened at the beginning.

He was there he knows a lot more than you.
I find his stupidity and lying quite offensive and that's why I'm commenting on it, as is my right. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on October 11, 2021, 12:11:54 PM
Well seems to me with some posts on here -  GA has hit a raw nerve with the abuse he receives .

Best form of defence is attack, comes to mind - OK can understand the mccs have a thorne in there side .

But why you.

No one knows as yet if GA is  right in what he is saying -  the key is in what happened at the beginning.

He was there he knows a lot more than you.

Has Gonçalo said anything publicy recently or has he too gone quiet?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 11, 2021, 12:18:39 PM
Well seems to me with some posts on here -  GA has hit a raw nerve with the abuse he receives .

Best form of defence is attack, comes to mind - OK can understand the mccs have a thorne in there side .

But why you.

No one knows as yet if GA is  right in what he is saying -  the key is in what happened at the beginning.

He was there he knows a lot more than you.

Amaral is public enemy No. 1 with supporters.
Not that their criticism makes any difference to anything, but in some strange way it makes them feel they are achieving something .
Sure is entertaining ?{)(**

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 11, 2021, 12:42:19 PM
Amaral is public enemy No. 1 with supporters.
Not that their criticism makes any difference to anything, but in some strange way it makes them feel they are achieving something .
Sure is entertaining ?{)(**

Then you don't know much about Supporters.  Innocent Until Proven Guilty.

We are basically a logical bunch with some knowledge of The Law and use of words, which appears to be sadly lacking in Sceptics.

I view Brueckner in precisely the same light.  But the hypocrisy stuns me.  The McCanns are guilty but Brueckner has a right to a right that The McCanns are not allowed.

Do any of you think about what you say?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 11, 2021, 12:50:05 PM
Then you don't know much about Supporters.  Innocent Until Proven Guilty.

We are basically a logical bunch with some knowledge of The Law and use of words, which appears to be sadly lacking in Sceptics.



I view Brueckner in precisely the same light.  But the hypocrisy stuns me.  The McCanns are guilty but Brueckner has a right to a right that The McCanns are not allowed.

Do any of you think about what you say?

You flatter yourselves, but that aside what do you think you achieve by slagging off Amaral, or anyone else for that matter ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 11, 2021, 12:56:32 PM
Well seems to me with some posts on here -  GA has hit a raw nerve with the abuse he receives .

Best form of defence is attack, comes to mind - OK can understand the mccs have a thorne in there side .

But why you.

No one knows as yet if GA is  right in what he is saying -  the key is in what happened at the beginning.

He was there he knows a lot more than you.

I'm sorry but I think your post is deluded... I think Amaral is making a complete fool of himseif.  Nothing he says is of any importance now... He just seems completely out of touch with reality
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 11, 2021, 12:56:55 PM
You flatter yourselves, but that aside what do you think you achieve by slagging off Amaral, or anyone else for that matter ?

I don't have to flatter myself.  Amaral is a convicted Liar and Thief.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 11, 2021, 12:58:38 PM
Amaral is public enemy No. 1 with supporters.
Not that their criticism makes any difference to anything, but in some strange way it makes them feel they are achieving something .
Sure is entertaining ?{)(**

I think you are imagining things... I find everything amaral says a hoot.. He trally has made a complete fool of himself afaiac
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on October 11, 2021, 12:58:52 PM
I'm sorry but I think your post is deluded... I think Amaral is making a complete fool of himseif.  Nothing he says is of any importance now... He just seems completely out of touch with reality

What has he said?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 11, 2021, 01:01:18 PM
I don't have to flatter myself.  Amaral is a convicted Liar and Thief.

And ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 11, 2021, 01:13:44 PM
I'm sorry but I think your post is deluded... I think Amaral is making a complete fool of himseif.  Nothing he says is of any importance now... He just seems completely out of touch with reality

Nothing he has said since retirement has ever been of any great importance, but it sure riles supporters.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 11, 2021, 01:15:25 PM
What has he said?

Basta de Mentiras.  Enough of The Lies.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 11, 2021, 01:16:28 PM
And ?

It's hardly rocket science is it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 11, 2021, 01:26:13 PM
It's hardly rocket science is it.

It's nothing at all, though you seem to think it is of some significance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 11, 2021, 01:29:07 PM
Basta de Mentiras.-  Reading  not obligatory  8(0(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on October 11, 2021, 01:42:51 PM
What has he said?
That SY have conspired with the Germans to frame CB

That CB is not guilty of rape because there was no rape

That the ony definite fact is that Maddie has disappeared

he does not appear to be repeating his claims. He does say the parents are responsible...but phrases it in such away theat he could be referring to nege=lect
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 11, 2021, 01:51:18 PM
Has Gonçalo said anything publicy recently or has he too gone quiet?
Are you kidding?  He’s all over Portuguese media plugging his new book!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 11, 2021, 01:52:12 PM
You flatter yourselves, but that aside what do you think you achieve by slagging off Amaral, or anyone else for that matter ?
what have you and your ilk achieved with 14 years of snide comments about the McCanns?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 11, 2021, 05:00:20 PM
what have you are you ilk achieved with 14 years of snide comments about the McCanns?

Rein de Tout.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on October 17, 2021, 07:10:28 PM
"In the early hours, even before we distrusted the parents, we received a list of pedophiles who lived in the area and Brueckner was on that list. But how did someone break into the apartment without leaving fingerprints or other evidence," the former inspector questioned, adding that "the public statements of the German public prosecutor only served to build the suspect, so people would say "what a monster this Brueckner is."
https://recordeuropa.com/noticias/portugal/maddie-goncalo-amaral-fala-em-sequestro-simulado-25-08-2021/

Is this a lesson in how to conduct an investigation Amaral style?

A defenceless little girl goes missing from her bed and in the early stages of investigating that disappearance Brueckner a known, locally based paedophile was ignored.

Brueckner whose phone activated a Luz mast on the day - didn't merit checking.  But the vilification of the victims of the crime continues.
Quite extraordinary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 17, 2021, 07:50:15 PM
“how did someone break into the apartment without leaving fingerprints or other evidence,"

Is Amaral saying that in every break-in, the burglar leaves handy incriminating evidence?  If so why isn’t the clear-up rate of burglaries close to 100%?  Is he unaware the it’s quite easy to break into an unlocked apartment anyway?

He’s not the brightest bulb, bless him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 17, 2021, 07:57:25 PM
“how did someone break into the apartment without leaving fingerprints or other evidence,"

Is Amaral saying that in every break-in, the burglar leaves handy incriminating evidence?  If so why isn’t the clear-up rate of burglaries close to 100%?  Is he unaware the it’s quite easy to break into an unlocked apartment anyway?

He’s not the brightest bulb, bless him.

Did you see him trying to prove you couldn't break in through the front door with a credit card?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 17, 2021, 08:00:44 PM
Did you see him trying to prove you couldn't break in through the front door with a credit card?

No, but if it was dead locked, then you couldn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 17, 2021, 08:06:51 PM
No, but if it was dead locked, then you couldn't.

Was it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 17, 2021, 08:21:37 PM
Was it?

Awfully careless if it wasn't.
Not only did these people leave the patio door unlocked and the bedroom window unlocked, but possibly also the front door only on a latch.

They might as well have pinned a note to the front door saying ' burgle me'

Off for their meal with friends with not a care in the world - it would seem.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 17, 2021, 08:32:50 PM
Awfully careless if it wasn't.
Not only did these people leave the patio door unlocked and the bedroom window unlocked, but possibly also the front door only on a latch.

They might as well have pinned a note to the front door saying ' burgle me'

Off for their meal with friends with not a care in the world - it would seem.

Not much point in dead locking the front door then was there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 17, 2021, 08:36:15 PM
Not much point in dead locking the front door then was there.

I don't suppose they gave it a thought - any more than they thought about the well being of their 3 children - allegedly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 17, 2021, 10:56:17 PM
Awfully careless if it wasn't.
Not only did these people leave the patio door unlocked and the bedroom window unlocked, but possibly also the front door only on a latch.

They might as well have pinned a note to the front door saying ' burgle me'

Off for their meal with friends with not a care in the world - it would seem.
You’re not suggesting that the apartment was left vulnerable to intruders are you?   No, no, no, no, no, the sceptic script is that abduction by a stranger would have been virtually impossible in the circumstances what with all the comings and goings of parents checking up on their kids.  The parents can’t be both incredibly neglectful as well as overly attentive so which one is it? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Billy Whizz Fan Club on October 18, 2021, 02:52:49 AM
You’re not suggesting that the apartment was left vulnerable to intruders are you?   No, no, no, no, no, the sceptic script is that abduction by a stranger would have been virtually impossible in the circumstances what with all the comings and goings of parents checking up on their kids.  The parents can’t be both incredibly neglectful as well as overly attentive so which one is it?

Leaving three children under the age of four in a holiday apartment is incredibly neglectful in my opinion. I'm sure that likely haunts the parents on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 07:23:17 AM
Leaving three children under the age of four in a holiday apartment is incredibly neglectful in my opinion. I'm sure that likely haunts the parents on a daily basis.
You missed the point entirely but never mind.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 18, 2021, 07:53:06 AM
You’re not suggesting that the apartment was left vulnerable to intruders are you?   No, no, no, no, no, the sceptic script is that abduction by a stranger would have been virtually impossible in the circumstances what with all the comings and goings of parents checking up on their kids.  The parents can’t be both incredibly neglectful as well as overly attentive so which one is it?

That was the anomaly. Madeleines parents were, according to them, neglectful. The group, according to their testimony, spent all evening traipsing back and forth. The two things aren't connected.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 08:02:43 AM
That was the anomaly. Madeleines parents were, according to them, neglectful. The group, according to their testimony, spent all evening traipsing back and forth. The two things aren't connected.
Can I have a cite for Madeleine’s parents admitting they were neglectful please?

In your opinion were the Tapas group neglectful or attentive or (as you seem to suggest) both?  Because IMO you can’t have attentive, neglectful parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on October 18, 2021, 09:01:08 AM
That was the anomaly. Madeleines parents were, according to them, neglectful. The group, according to their testimony, spent all evening traipsing back and forth. The two things aren't connected.

I think it is well established that Madeleine's parents recognise that they erred. 

But it was the perfect storm situation was it not.

Amaral also admits that mistakes were made when the PJ did not follow through on their inquiry into Brueckner.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 18, 2021, 09:47:06 AM
I think it is well established that Madeleine's parents recognise that they erred. 

But it was the perfect storm situation was it not.

Amaral also admits that mistakes were made when the PJ did not follow through on their inquiry into Brueckner.

The anomaly was that the parents publicised the 30 minute gaps between checks, but that didn't mean that the apartment was unobserved during those gaps.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 10:49:34 AM
The anomaly was that the parents publicised the 30 minute gaps between checks, but that didn't mean that the apartment was unobserved during those gaps.
What are you getting at?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on October 18, 2021, 11:09:01 AM
The anomaly was that the parents publicised the 30 minute gaps between checks, but that didn't mean that the apartment was unobserved during those gaps.

Sorry - I'm not following the thrust of your argument.

We know there is a high probability that those dining at the restaurant were under observation.  Are you saying that Amaral didn't take that into consideration?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 18, 2021, 11:44:29 AM
Sorry - I'm not following the thrust of your argument.

We know there is a high probability that those dining at the restaurant were under observation.  Are you saying that Amaral didn't take that into consideration?

I don't think there's any evidence at all that the group was being observed. The parents made it very clear that they checked their children every 30 minutes. The apartment, however, was seen by every member of the group who went to check on their own children. It was also seen by Jeremy Wilkins, the Moyes and Mr Totman, who all passed by. Two cars passed the apartment also during the time scale. How many more people passed by is unknown, but the apartment was not unobserved during those 30 minute gaps.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 12:03:31 PM

If someone or two were lurking to abduct Madeleine then they will have been checking on The Tapas 9 at dinner.  This much is obvious.

Never have I believed that Brueckner could have done this alone.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 12:18:48 PM
I don't think there's any evidence at all that the group was being observed. The parents made it very clear that they checked their children every 30 minutes. The apartment, however, was seen by every member of the group who went to check on their own children. It was also seen by Jeremy Wilkins, the Moyes and Mr Totman, who all passed by. Two cars passed the apartment also during the time scale. How many more people passed by is unknown, but the apartment was not unobserved during those 30 minute gaps.
So in your opinion the apartment was being closely monitored by a bunch of highly neglectful parents then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 12:22:09 PM
So in your opinion the apartment was being closely monitored by a bunch of highly neglectful parents then.

No Logic you see.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 18, 2021, 12:29:06 PM
So in your opinion the apartment was being closely monitored by a bunch of highly neglectful parents then.

Not conciously.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 12:39:59 PM
Not conciously.
Oh right - which bit?  Not consciously neglectful, or not consciously checking on their kids?  Were they in a zombie state then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on October 18, 2021, 02:06:47 PM
I don't think there's any evidence at all that the group was being observed. The parents made it very clear that they checked their children every 30 minutes. The apartment, however, was seen by every member of the group who went to check on their own children. It was also seen by Jeremy Wilkins, the Moyes and Mr Totman, who all passed by. Two cars passed the apartment also during the time scale. How many more people passed by is unknown, but the apartment was not unobserved during those 30 minute gaps.

Au contraire ~ recorded in the files is evidence which differs from your synopsis of events.

Do you think the Portuguese burglars including Brueckner, who haunted the holiday resort didn't 'case the joints' they raided?

Snip
An intruder tried to break in to Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment just days before she vanished, the Daily Express can reveal.

British holidaymaker Paul Gordon confronted a man trying to get in through the patio doors of flat 5A at the Ocean Club Resort in Praia da Luz where his two young children were sleeping.

Mr Gordon was so convinced it was linked to Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3 he contacted British police immediately he heard she had gone missing.

But Portuguese detectives have never interviewed him to ask about the intruder who has not been identified by any other witness.

Mr Gordon, 34, a salesman, from Fareham, Hampshire, said: “I find it incredible that no one has tried to work out who this person was who came to the apartment unannounced just days before Madeleine McCann went missing.”

Recalling the incident at the ground floor apartment in April last year, Mr Gordon said: “I came across someone at the flat. I now believe he was suspicious.

“He said he was collecting donations for an orphanage in the mountains. But he did not come to the front door.

“And it happened in the middle of the day when most people are out. He must have been staking out the property, or worse.”
_________________________________________________________________

And it follows a chilling series of incidents linked to the flat.

A British nanny has claimed a man tried to kidnap a child from the same apartment six months before Madeleine went missing.

The unnamed babysitter says she popped out briefly from apartment 5A to get food, and the man fled empty-handed as she returned.

In November British mum Karen Sixsmith told how she got suspicious when she saw a woman trying to get into an apartment at the Ocean Club where her daughter was playing.

She said the woman claimed to be a Jehovah’s Witness and wanted to discuss her faith. But Mrs Sixsmith said the woman and a male friend seemed anxious to get inside.

In October a childminder told investigators she saw a man lurking in bushes outside the holiday apartment. And in September an Ocean Club employee said she witnessed a British tourist hiding in a stairwell outside Madeleine McCann’s apartment on the night she disappeared.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/10jan8/EXPRESS_07_01_08.htm

Perhaps if Amaral had analysed or even coordinated the intelligence concerning what went on in this area of Luz - he might have been encouraged to think outside the box. 
The first step of which might have been to ensure proper investigation of all local criminals.

Don't you find it rather alarming that Amaral seems to have known about Brueckner from early days but did nothing about him?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 02:46:35 PM

This all just gets worse.  Amaral wasn't even interested in who might have done this.  He had already sent down the mother of another missing child on no evidence at all, other than a very bad beating.

I am still trying to get my head around Amaral.  This is one very sick man who is still trying to interfere with yet more lies.

Exactly who is he?  Narcissist, Sociopath or just a Misogynist?  It probably doesn't matter in the end.  But he bit off a bit more than he could chew with Kate McCann.  No chance of her falling down any Police Station Stairs, which is why The British Ambassador was there tout de suite.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 18, 2021, 03:01:48 PM
The British Ambassador was there for no other reason than political interference - IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 03:18:50 PM
The British Ambassador was there for no other reason than political interference - IMO
Ridiculous assertion IMO. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 03:23:46 PM
The British Ambassador was there for no other reason than political interference - IMO

And nothing to do with The PJ fitting up someone for the crime.  As had already been done before.

Can you not see that The PJ were totally incompetent?

You think that The British Ambassador went to Praia da Luz to protect a guilty parent who killed their own child, when in fact there has never been any evidence of this.  The British Ambassador was also supporting a crime? How daft do you think he was?

Oh how I wish I had more knowledge of actual physiology.  But I know that Kate McCann did not kill that child and Gerry McCann did not enable her.

So you must be suffering from the same sickness that pervades Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 18, 2021, 03:27:18 PM
And nothing to do with The PJ fitting up someone for the crime.  As had already been done before.

Can you not see that The PJ were totally incompetent?

You think that The British Ambassador went to Praia da Luz to protect a guilty parent who killed their own child, when in fact there has never been any evidence of this.  The British Ambassador was also supporting a crime? How daft do you think he was?

Oh how I wish I had more knowledge of actual physiology.  But I know that Kate McCann did not kill that child and Gerry McCann did not enable her.

So you must be suffering from the same sickness that pervades Amaral.

The Ambassador went tp PDL because he was told to by his political masters. It had nothing to do with supporting a crime.

IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 04:04:15 PM
The Ambassador went tp PDL because he was told to by his political masters. It had nothing to do with supporting a crime.

IMO

I see.   The British Ambassador was just there for a four hour ride.  And what did his political masters think of this?  The entire Government of the time thought that Kate McCann killed her daughter so let's bail her out?
Why on earth would a Government do this?

It is quite simple.  The PJ had a penchant to blaming anyone, preferably a mother.  And Britain wasn't having this yet again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 18, 2021, 04:17:50 PM
I see.   The British Ambassador was just there for a four hour ride.  And what did his political masters think of this?  The entire Government of the time thought that Kate McCann killed her daughter so let's bail her out?
Why on earth would a Government do this?

It is quite simple.  The PJ had a penchant to blaming anyone, preferably a mother.  And Britain wasn't having this yet again.

It's not clear why the UK goverment acted the way it did.

Why did it send Mitchell, a civil servant in their information dept, as a McCann spokesperson ?

Why did it put in all the UK police support that it did ?

I have my own ideas and they lead in a rather unpleasant direction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 04:37:46 PM
It's not clear why the UK goverment acted the way it did.

Why did it send Mitchell, a civil servant in their information dept, as a McCann spokesperson ?

Why did it put in all the UK police support that it did ?

I have my own ideas and they lead in a rather unpleasant direction.

Perhaps they thought that The McCanns were innocent.  And that The PJ were rubbish.

I am really sorry for your unpleasant direction.  It must be hard to live with.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 18, 2021, 04:41:54 PM
Perhaps they thought that The McCanns were innocent.  And that The PJ were rubbish.

I am really sorry for your unpleasant direction.  It must be hard to live with.

Extreme reaction, even if they did - without any real knowledge of the situation at the time.

One would expect them to steer clear of potential prejudicial action in a foreign country.


IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 04:57:00 PM
Extreme reaction, even if they did - without any real knowledge of the situation at the time.

One would expect them to steer clear of prejudicial action in a foreign country.


IMO

Despite extreme reaction in a foreign country.

The McCanns were at all times entitled to the presumption of innocence in a foreign country.  But we didn't see much of that.  And absolutely nothing since.

I should have a word with Amaral if I were you.  He has proved nothing other than his own stupidity.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 05:01:09 PM
The Ambassador went tp PDL because he was told to by his political masters. It had nothing to do with supporting a crime.

IMO
LOL, look at you with your inside track.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 05:07:07 PM
Extreme reaction, even if they did - without any real knowledge of the situation at the time.

One would expect them to steer clear of potential prejudicial action in a foreign country.


IMO
What prejudicial action?  Helping British Nationals in touble abroad is part of the role of the British embassy, were you unaware of this fact?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 05:09:42 PM
Perhaps this will help the ill-informed conspiracists of the forum (though it’s likely to fall on blind eyes I realise…)

Main duties

A British consulate will:

register births and deaths;
handle child abduction cases;
issue passports, including in an emergency;
deal with forced marriages;
help Britons who are detained or imprisoned;
help Britons who have fallen ill;
help Britons who are the victims of crime;
inform British nationals of any risks posed by visiting a country.
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/immigration-law/embassy/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 05:11:16 PM
LOL, look at you with your inside track.

Not much LOL actually.  But there you go.  The World is full of idiots who think they know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 18, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
Not much LOL actually.  But there you go.  The World is full of idiots who think they know.


Mirror mirror on the wall   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on October 18, 2021, 05:28:27 PM

Mirror mirror on the wall   @)(++(*
Pinkerton's assorted colours.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 05:28:37 PM

Mirror mirror on the wall   @)(++(*

You think?  Sorry, that doesn't work for me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 18, 2021, 05:45:27 PM
You think?  Sorry, that doesn't work for me.

You mean you see nothing when you look in the mirror ?

Not even a pot or a kettle ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 18, 2021, 05:56:37 PM
Perhaps this will help the ill-informed conspiracists of the forum (though it’s likely to fall on blind eyes I realise…)

Main duties

A British consulate will:

register births and deaths;
handle child abduction cases;
issue passports, including in an emergency;
deal with forced marriages;
help Britons who are detained or imprisoned;
help Britons who have fallen ill;
help Britons who are the victims of crime;
inform British nationals of any risks posed by visiting a country.
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/immigration-law/embassy/

While definitely within the job description of the British Consulate, dashing from Lisbon to Praia da Luz seems to be outside the duties of the British Ambassador.

Ambassador Duties and Responsibilities
Meet with Foreign Leaders. One of the primary duties of an ambassador is meeting directly with foreign leaders and representatives. ...
Negotiate Agreements and Treaties. ...
Monitor International Situations. ...
Direct Foreign Service Staff. ...
Oversee Foreign Aid Projects. ...
Support Foreign Visits.
https://www.jobhero.com/job-description/examples/marketing/ambassador
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 06:09:29 PM
You mean you see nothing when you look in the mirror ?

Not even a pot or a kettle ?

Why would I want to do that?  The Pot and The Kettle are looking fine.  But I don't think they want to speak each other.

The Mirror? Ah well that's a fine thing.  I have one glorious mirror that makes me look as I think it should so I only ever look in that one.  Mirrors are funny things.  You get what you are looking for.  I can only hope that your mirror is kind to you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 06:15:10 PM
While definitely within the job description of the British Consulate, dashing from Lisbon to Praia da Luz seems to be outside the duties of the British Ambassador.

Ambassador Duties and Responsibilities
Meet with Foreign Leaders. One of the primary duties of an ambassador is meeting directly with foreign leaders and representatives. ...
Negotiate Agreements and Treaties. ...
Monitor International Situations. ...
Direct Foreign Service Staff. ...
Oversee Foreign Aid Projects. ...
Support Foreign Visits.
https://www.jobhero.com/job-description/examples/marketing/ambassador

And never support a Brit abroad.  Good heavens, why should he.  Dump any Brit in distress.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on October 18, 2021, 06:18:51 PM
And never support a Brit abroad.  Good heavens, why should he.  Dump any Brit in distress.

No, that's the function of the local Consul.

An Ambassador works at a much higher level.

It's like suggesting that Dame Cressida should personalty patrol the streets.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 06:20:08 PM
While definitely within the job description of the British Consulate, dashing from Lisbon to Praia da Luz seems to be outside the duties of the British Ambassador.

Ambassador Duties and Responsibilities
Meet with Foreign Leaders. One of the primary duties of an ambassador is meeting directly with foreign leaders and representatives. ...
Negotiate Agreements and Treaties. ...
Monitor International Situations. ...
Direct Foreign Service Staff. ...
Oversee Foreign Aid Projects. ...
Support Foreign Visits.
https://www.jobhero.com/job-description/examples/marketing/ambassador
Oh right, so if a British national begs a British ambassador for assistance then he or she must respond “it’s not in my 6 point job description to meet with you face to face to offer assistance” right?


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 06:23:24 PM
No, that's the function of the local Consul.

An Ambassador works at a much higher level.
It was the weekend, perhaps he tied it in with a round of golf and some windsurfing on the Algarve.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 06:39:45 PM
It was the weekend, perhaps he tied it in with a round of golf and some windsurfing on the Algarve.

Oh God, do try not to make me laugh.  British Ambassadors are definitely not there to support the British Passport Holders.  So what the Fock are they supposed to be doing?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 07:15:42 PM
Oh God, do try not to make me laugh.  British Ambassadors are definitely not there to support the British Passport Holders.  So what the Fock are they supposed to be doing?
You see what actually happened was Gerry phoned the amabassador when he was on his way back from the bin and said “Oi Buck, got myself in a bit of bother, you’d better get your sorry arse down to PdL pronto and help me and the missus  or I’ll spill the beans about you and the donkey and don’t forget I have photo evidence”.  And that’s the real reason why the ambassador dropped everything to help the McCanns. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 18, 2021, 07:20:09 PM
Oh right, so if a British national begs a British ambassador for assistance then he or she must respond “it’s not in my 6 point job description to meet with you face to face to offer assistance” right?

Do you think he answers the phone at the Embassy? I don't. Therefore it's highly unlikely that anyone begged him for assistance. It was the job of the British Consul in the Algarve to assist the McCanns, and that's normally where the Ambassador's staff would have directed anyone pleading for help imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 07:23:49 PM
Do you think he answers the phone at the Embassy? I don't. Therefore it's highly unlikely that anyone begged him for assistance. It was the job of the British Consul in the Algarve to assist the McCanns, and that's normally where the Ambassador's staff would have directed anyone pleading for help imo.
So what do you think is the real reason for his visit, eh?  Do give us the benefit of your insight.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 07:27:17 PM
I wonder if John Buck ever watched the TV back in his days as ambassador in Portugal in 2007?  Or read the news?  I wonder if perhaps he took it upon himself to get personally involved in an international news even out of concern and a desire to help personally?  Or perhaps because he fancied Kate McCann?  No it must be more sinister than that, involving conspiracy and cover up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 07:29:46 PM
You see what actually happened was Gerry phoned the amabassador when he was on his way back from the bin and said “Oi Buck, got myself in a bit of bother, you’d better get your sorry arse down to PdL pronto and help me and the missus  or I’ll spill the beans about you and the donkey and don’t forget I have photo evidence”.  And that’s the real reason why the ambassador dropped everything to help the McCanns.

Oh do come on.  That isn't even half decent.  It must be far worse than that.  But don't tempt me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 08:00:50 PM

How come that Gerry McCann was never seen as the perpetrator?  For Amaral it always had to be the woman. 

What is it about Amaral that so despises women?

Should this not have been raising red flags?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 08:02:43 PM
How come that Gerry McCann was never seen as the perpetrator?  For Amaral it always had to be the woman. 

What is it about Amaral that so despises women?

Should this not have been raising red flags?
Typical Latin chauvinist imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 08:27:11 PM
Typical Latin chauvinist imo.

I sincerely hope not.  I have come across a few Anglo Saxon chauvinists in my time.  But Amaral is something else.  And still he goes on telling lies.

Why is Portugal doing nothing about this?

Davel has said that what Amaral is doing at the moment isn't actually Libel.  And I have enough respect for Davel to believe that he is right. But what on earth is Amaral doing?  And what on earth is Portugal doing?

Is this all to establish the right of some third world state to do as it pleases?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 18, 2021, 08:49:41 PM
So what do you think is the real reason for his visit, eh?  Do give us the benefit of your insight.

I have no idea. All I know is that it wasn't normal procedure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 18, 2021, 08:53:14 PM
How come that Gerry McCann was never seen as the perpetrator?  For Amaral it always had to be the woman. 

What is it about Amaral that so despises women?

Should this not have been raising red flags?

Both parents were made arguidos.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 09:17:02 PM
Both parents were made arguidos.

Don't you think that this was a bit odd?  There is nothing of Gerry's interview to be said while Kate's interview is plastered all over The Internet.

Not that I expect any response from you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 18, 2021, 10:21:35 PM
I have no idea. All I know is that it wasn't normal procedure.
Extraordinary events demand extraordinary measures.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on October 18, 2021, 10:32:39 PM
Extraordinary events demand extraordinary measures.

While I can no longer be bothered.  Just don't trash The McCanns, okay.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on October 19, 2021, 05:30:49 AM
Don't you think that this was a bit odd?  There is nothing of Gerry's interview to be said while Kate's interview is plastered all over The Internet.

Not that I expect any response from you.

I don't think that had anything to do with Amaral. Both McCanns were advised to respond to questions with "No comment", according to Kate. She did, Gerry didn't. That, as she herself acknowledged, was why she was singled out;

"unfortunately our inconsistent responses to interrogation led to me being portrayed as ‘difficult’ or even ‘guilty’ in certain sections of the media" [madeleine page 266]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on November 04, 2021, 10:35:57 AM
I wonder if John Buck ever watched the TV back in his days as ambassador in Portugal in 2007?  Or read the news?  I wonder if perhaps he took it upon himself to get personally involved in an international news even out of concern and a desire to help personally?  Or perhaps because he fancied Kate McCann?  No it must be more sinister than that, involving conspiracy and cover up.

While he may have had various personal or professional reasons to head to the Algarve, I can think of a few potential reasons concerning his presence.

For what it's worth, a former (witty) British ambassador to somewhere in the Middle East (?) whose name escapes me wrote various accounts of his experiences. One - which caught my eye at the time - concerned an internationally newsworthy but chaotic situation in a country that didn't have the resources or the experience to deal with vast quantities of British journos and TV crews. Although not strictly within his mandate, he facilitated organising TV satellites, etc., to help make the onslaught of his country's press more manageable, thus reducing the risk of a diplomatic rift on that front. While Portugal wouldn't have needed help organising TV satellites, the PJ didn't have an official press liaison spokesperson and were - officially at least - bound by so-called judicial secrecy.

A potentially more thorny issue may well have arisen if he'd been made aware of the fact that the same PJ team had been in charge of the Cipriano saga. Another slippery stair incident would have been unlikely to bode well for diplomatic relations.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on November 04, 2021, 10:58:17 AM
While he may have had various personal or professional reasons to head to the Algarve, I can think of a few potential reasons concerning his presence.

For what it's worth, a former (witty) British ambassador to somewhere in the Middle East (?) whose name escapes me wrote various accounts of his experiences. One - which caught my eye at the time - concerned an internationally newsworthy but chaotic situation in a country that didn't have the resources or the experience to deal with vast quantities of British journos and TV crews. Although not strictly within his mandate, he facilitated organising TV satellites, etc., to help make the onslaught of his country's press more manageable, thus reducing the risk of a diplomatic rift on that front. While Portugal wouldn't have needed help organising TV satellites, the PJ didn't have an official press liaison spokesperson and were - officially at least - bound by so-called judicial secrecy.

A potentially more thorny issue may well have arisen if he'd been made aware of the fact that the same PJ team had been in charge of the Cipriano saga. Another slippery stair incident would have been unlikely to bode well for diplomatic relations.

That would make sense if he hadn't reacted so quickly. He surely set off before those potential problems could be identified and the child could have been found by the time he arrived.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on November 04, 2021, 11:13:39 AM
That would make sense if he hadn't reacted so quickly. He surely set off before those potential problems could be identified and the child could have been found by the time he arrived.

It was to be hoped that would be the case at the time and if so absolutely no harm done.

Or maybe he had been a Boy Scout in his youth and utilised the old motto.  Was it not something like ~ BE PREPARED
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on November 04, 2021, 11:54:45 AM
That would make sense if he hadn't reacted so quickly. He surely set off before those potential problems could be identified and the child could have been found by the time he arrived.

If it doesn't make sense to then what other reason can you give for his presence... Or is this just more innuendo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 04, 2021, 12:18:22 PM
If it doesn't make sense to then what other reason can you give for his presence... Or is this just more innuendo
I can 100% guarantee you won't get a straight answer to this question.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on November 04, 2021, 12:22:00 PM
If it doesn't make sense to then what other reason can you give for his presence... Or is this just more innuendo

I have no idea why the British Ambassador hot-footed it from Lisbon to Portimao on 3rd May. I just don't think Carana's possible reasons are very convincing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 04, 2021, 12:23:06 PM
I can 100% guarantee you won't get a straight answer to this question.
And I was right.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on November 04, 2021, 02:17:20 PM
That would make sense if he hadn't reacted so quickly. He surely set off before those potential problems could be identified and the child could have been found by the time he arrived.

There could have been calls late in the evening and he could have been intending to head down for the w/e anyway, no way of knowing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on November 04, 2021, 04:25:25 PM
I have no idea why the British Ambassador hot-footed it from Lisbon to Portimao on 3rd May. I just don't think Carana's possible reasons are very convincing.
Well as you can't come up with any then Caranas are the best explanation there is
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 04, 2021, 06:48:25 PM
Here’s some other theories:
1) He was an attention-seeker who wanted to muscle in on the story to get his name in the papers
2) He was genuinely concerned about the competency of the local police to treat British victims of crime serriously. and wanted to be on hand in case of any issues arising as a result.
3) He was instructed by his overlords to rush to the McCanns aid because of Gerry and Kate’s secret connections with the world wide elite.
4) He was part of an elite Portuguese paedo ring and rushed to PdL to make sure the police didn’t follow up leads on Bruckner.
5) He fancied a trip to the seaside that weekend and the McCann case provided the perfect excuse.
6) He was a genuinely nice man who was moved by the news reports (as so many people were at the time) and went there to offer any help that he could in an act of compassion and kindness.

Anymore for anymore?  I expect G-Unit will be able to narrow it down for us by telling us which theories aren’t very convincing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on November 04, 2021, 08:30:21 PM

It was the slippery stairs problem if you ask me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on November 13, 2021, 09:56:26 AM
Miguel Sousa Tavares interviews Gonçalo Amaral


Goncalo Amaral : There are diligencies, if you notice...

Miguel Sousa Tavares : No.

GA : MST :Have you read the process?

MST : There are diligences which have not been carried out because from the very beginning the hypothesis is that the parents are guilty.

GA : That's a lie, no, it's a lie and I'll tell you more...

MST : On the very first day the GNR dogs went there, all of them pointed to the car park..

GA : Pointed to what?

MST : The trail they followed stops at the car park. That lead points to a car that took the child out of there, and instead of (investigating) that, six months passed..
 
GA : Sorry, points to a car, why ? Where did you read that in my book?

MST : No, this I didn't read in your book.

GA : But it is also in the book, the GNR dogs are good, these are sniffer dogs, what they followed was the trail of a living child, you understand, it was the route of a live child. Why do you say it is a car ?

MST : Why do you say that she was not alive?

GA : Excuse me, but how can you say it was a car, you don't know when it happened, one, two, three hours before...

MST : In a car park it is most likely that it was a car..

GA : But it was the route that the menina followed..

MST :  I'm not an expert in criminal investigation, but the idea I have is that if you had started working seriously from the very beginning on the abduction hypothesis, the first suspicion had been that the child was taken away by car, instead of that..

GA : There is a witness who even talks that the child went out in the opposite way.

MST : Exactly, you gave her no credibility, she is an English friend of the McCanns and you gave no credibility to that witness.

GA : I didn't ?

MST : You gave no credit at all.

GA : It's possible, neither me, nor anyone else. That lady started by saying this, then that, then she changed this and modified that, and meanwhile the only thing she remembered was the hair, remember the e-fit with the hair which she completed until she reached the point of recognizing Robert Murat as the perpetrator. This kind of thing isn't acceptable.
 
MST : The first person who suspected of Robert Murat is you, isn't it?

GA : No, it's Jane Tanner.

MST : It is you. You're the first. You're the first who goes there and decides to put him under surveillance. (1)

GA : It is Jane Tanner. You're wrong. It is Jane Tanner.

https://www.facebook.com/Madeleinemyths/posts/251527198594833
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on November 13, 2021, 10:30:00 AM
Miguel Sousa Tavares interviews Gonçalo Amaral


Goncalo Amaral : There are diligencies, if you notice...

Miguel Sousa Tavares : No.

GA : MST :Have you read the process?

MST : There are diligences which have not been carried out because from the very beginning the hypothesis is that the parents are guilty.

GA : That's a lie, no, it's a lie and I'll tell you more...

MST : On the very first day the GNR dogs went there, all of them pointed to the car park..

GA : Pointed to what?

MST : The trail they followed stops at the car park. That lead points to a car that took the child out of there, and instead of (investigating) that, six months passed..
 
GA : Sorry, points to a car, why ? Where did you read that in my book?

MST : No, this I didn't read in your book.

GA : But it is also in the book, the GNR dogs are good, these are sniffer dogs, what they followed was the trail of a living child, you understand, it was the route of a live child. Why do you say it is a car ?

MST : Why do you say that she was not alive?

GA : Excuse me, but how can you say it was a car, you don't know when it happened, one, two, three hours before...

MST : In a car park it is most likely that it was a car..

GA : But it was the route that the menina followed..

MST :  I'm not an expert in criminal investigation, but the idea I have is that if you had started working seriously from the very beginning on the abduction hypothesis, the first suspicion had been that the child was taken away by car, instead of that..

GA : There is a witness who even talks that the child went out in the opposite way.

MST : Exactly, you gave her no credibility, she is an English friend of the McCanns and you gave no credibility to that witness.

GA : I didn't ?

MST : You gave no credit at all.

GA : It's possible, neither me, nor anyone else. That lady started by saying this, then that, then she changed this and modified that, and meanwhile the only thing she remembered was the hair, remember the e-fit with the hair which she completed until she reached the point of recognizing Robert Murat as the perpetrator. This kind of thing isn't acceptable.
 
MST : The first person who suspected of Robert Murat is you, isn't it?

GA : No, it's Jane Tanner.

MST : It is you. You're the first. You're the first who goes there and decides to put him under surveillance. (1)

GA : It is Jane Tanner. You're wrong. It is Jane Tanner.

https://www.facebook.com/Madeleinemyths/posts/251527198594833

How was it possible for Amaral to get away with all of this?

One thing for certain is that he did not achieve it unaided. 

He had to have a lot of help.

Not only at the time when he was systematically wrecking the investigation into a missing child ~ but throughout all of the intervening years since.

SNIP
The investigators, in truth, were at fault from the very beginning.

Journalists, police officers and other experts who witnessed the early stages of the investigation were struck by how out of their depth the police seemed.

Their failure to secure the crime scene, close the borders, take early witness statements and conform to other basic investigative good practice has been well reported.

The most senior police officer, Goncalo Amaral, was abruptly removed from the case and demoted over his handling of it, while his office spent last summer leaking extremely prejudicial material about the McCanns to local media.

(Amaral is currently facing perjury charges, which he denies, in relation to another missing child case, which might cast doubt on the credibility of his own tell-all book about the McCann investigation, released tomorrow.)

Now it seems that it was the Portuguese police's catastrophic misinterpretation of British DNA findings that led to them becoming so convinced of the couple's guilt and naming them arguidos.

So much of this miserable story, in other words, could have been different had local investigators displayed a little more competence.

Portugal is a comparatively small country with a relatively inexperienced police force, and clearly British forensic experts, in handing over highly technical findings, should have taken the utmost care that they were interpreted correctly.

But there is no question that Kate and Gerry McCann were horribly failed by the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/jul/23/madeleinemccann.portugal
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on November 13, 2021, 11:06:06 AM
It was the slippery stairs problem if you ask me.

I think probably both. With a sliding scale in favour of avoiding more slippery stairs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on November 13, 2021, 12:32:15 PM
I think probably both. With a sliding scale in favour of avoiding more slippery stairs.


Some like Eleanor knew Portugal a bit but for the majority I believe it was only after the mismanagement of events involving foreigners that the full story of police incompetence began to emerge.

Although even those were not well known as the 'secrecy of justice' played well with not alarming the tourists who were Portugal's bread and butter.

I think the evidence is that the British consulate staff did know what went on and in the case of a missing British child took steps to circumvent more abuse happening on their watch.

To an extent they were successful in doing so:  physical abuse was avoided - but was there anything they could have done to address the psychological abuse which was part and parcel of 'investigative' techniques used.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on November 13, 2021, 12:41:21 PM


Some like Eleanor knew Portugal a bit but for the majority I believe it was only after the mismanagement of events involving foreigners that the full story of police incompetence began to emerge.

Although even those were not well known as the 'secrecy of justice' played well with not alarming the tourists who were Portugal's bread and butter.

I think the evidence is that the British consulate staff did know what went on and in the case of a missing British child took steps to circumvent more abuse happening on their watch.

To an extent they were successful in doing so:  physical abuse was avoided - but was there anything they could have done to address the psychological abuse which was part and parcel of 'investigative' techniques used.

I do know Portugal a bit, especially during both Revolutions.

But probably more to the point I remember The Michael Cooke Affair when he appeared in Court beaten up and with teeth missing.  The British Government weren't having that happening again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on November 13, 2021, 12:45:55 PM
No chance of that with the world media closely  focused on events in PDL
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on November 13, 2021, 01:23:14 PM
I do know Portugal a bit, especially during both Revolutions.

But probably more to the point I remember The Michael Cooke Affair when he appeared in Court beaten up and with teeth missing.  The British Government weren't having that happening again.

Are those the revolutions of 1926 and 1975?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on November 13, 2021, 01:41:52 PM
Are those the revolutions of 1926 and 1975?

No.  there were two in the 1970s.  Did you not know that?

It was the period during which the Old Guard reinvented themselves and then snuck back into power.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on November 13, 2021, 02:29:55 PM
No.  there were two in the 1970s.  Did you not know that?

It was the period during which the Old Guard reinvented themselves and then snuck back into power.

I think there are few who better portray the Old Guard and their sense of entitlement than Amaral and his bezzie mate, Cristovao.

Both of whom were up to the neck in portraying Madeleine's parents as being responsible for her disappearance in one way or another.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on November 13, 2021, 02:30:45 PM
No.  there were two in the 1970s.  Did you not know that?

It was the period during which the Old Guard reinvented themselves and then snuck back into power.

Only the Carnation Revolution is recorded.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on November 13, 2021, 06:49:14 PM
I think there are few who better portray the Old Guard and their sense of entitlement than Amaral and his bezzie mate, Cristovao.

Both of whom were up to the neck in portraying Madeleine's parents as being responsible for her disappearance in one way or another.

These two were both educated before The Revolutions.  It might be sad to say that both of them grew up as thugs.

Cristovao is now in prison.  I no longer care about what they do to Amaral The Liar.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on November 13, 2021, 06:51:29 PM
Only the Carnation Revolution is recorded.

Then you are seriously ill informed.  As usual.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on November 13, 2021, 07:50:45 PM
Then you are seriously ill informed.  As usual.

"Since the Revolution of the Carnations on April 25, 1974, Portugal has had a democratic republic."
https://www.britannica.com/place/Portugal/Government-and-society#ref896987

I look forward to your cite informing me about this other revolution you refer to.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on November 13, 2021, 08:31:23 PM
"Since the Revolution of the Carnations on April 25, 1974, Portugal has had a democratic republic."
https://www.britannica.com/place/Portugal/Government-and-society#ref896987

I look forward to your cite informing me about this other revolution you refer to.

See if you can find it in here: it didn't happen overnight in 1974 there was unrest for a far longer period.  If Eleanor was living there at the time - I think she will remember it well.

Over forty years of dictatorship had left a vacuum of organisations. Workers’ commissions (comissões de trabalhadores) and residents’ commissions (comissões de moradores) emerged to occupy the vacuum. Residents’ commissions represented the occupation movements which started in Porto and quickly spread to Lisbon and other cities. Workers occupied factories, farms and shipyards. Some of these could not really be considered occupations simply because the owners had abandoned their properties and fled to Brazil. However, Varela stresses that the occupations were about workers’ self-management and not workers’ control. She quotes a worker from Lisnave Margueira shipyard: ‘There will not be workers’ control if we merely intend to run the bosses’ businesses’ (p.144). The occupations and workers’ self-management rose awareness among workers of the importance of taking over political power. The Portuguese was the last revolution in Europe, and maybe in the world, to call into question the private ownership of the means of production.

Defeat of the revolution
So, what went wrong? Using the Russian Revolution as a metaphor, why didn’t February metamorphose into October? Why was the April 1974 revolution defeated in November 1975? Varela discusses some factors that contributed to the defeat and lays a large part of the responsibility on the broad shoulders of the Communist Party (PCP). In an attempt to contain the widespread political activity from below, the pro-Soviet Communist Party was invited to take part in the First Provisional Government in May 1974 and took part in all the six provisional governments thereafter.

The Communist Party was ‘the only force that effectively resisted fascism’ (p .45) and paid a heavy price with many members in prison. In April 1974, the party had no more than three thousand militants. A year later it had grown to 100,000. The Communist Party shared the Soviet cold-war view of the world as one of peaceful co-existence. Supporting this policy was the idea that the division of the world between the socialist and capitalist bloc should be respected. The strategy of the PCP was to win rights for the workers, not to seize political power.

Revolutions will always reach a point when the issue of power comes to the forefront. By the summer of ’75 the country had become increasingly divided. The Socialist Party knew that the favourable outcomes in the elections for the Constitutional Assembly and in the trade unions were not enough to defeat the workers’ control movement which had spread since February. A clear alliance was formed with the Church, the upper hierarchy of the armed forces and the moderates in the MFA, known as the Group of Nine.

On 25th November, the Group of Nine moved against a group of left-wing soldiers organised in the Soldados Unidos Vencerão (Soldiers United for Victory or SUV). The SUV was a rank and file organisation that aimed to prepare the ‘conditions that would permit the destruction of the bourgeois Army and the creation of the armed wing, the Power of Workers, a People’s Revolutionary Army’ (p.225).

Previously, the fear was of a Chileanization of the Portuguese Revolution. The fear was that the counter revolution would be inspired by fascism and would come from outside the MFA, and not from those who had supported the 25th April. The workers and soldiers were not prepared for a social-democratic counter revolution. Too much trust was put on the officers of the MFA and ‘no real structure of organisation of the rank and file existed able to lead at the testing time’ (p.245).

The need for revolutionary organisation
There was resistance against the coup and in support of the soldiers, mainly by groups of building workers who used walkie-talkies, and commandeered enormous earth-movers and concrete-mixers, in order to block the advance of commandos of the Group of Nine who were on the road to arrest members of the SUV. The problem of the 25th November was that there was not a centralised command that organised the resistance, and neither the unions nor the workers’ commissions, controlled by the PCP, were interested in resisting.

The fact that the Communist Party agreed not to resist the move against the SUV weighs heavily on their shoulders. The Socialist Party and the Church initially did not want the Communists in the government, but sectors of the military knew of the strength and influence of the Party among the soldiers and demanded it:

‘The Portuguese Communist Party was prepared to abandon its radical army supporters (and a great many others) in exchange for a continued stake in government. The military left had become a burden on the Communist Party because its performance undermined the balance of power with the Nine and peaceful coexistence agreements between the USA, Western Europe and the USSR. Some 200 soldiers and officers, plus a handful of building workers, were arrested’ (p.246).

Forty-five years after the Revolution its memory is in dispute. The Socialist Party and the establishment will try to portray it ‘as a long process of extending democracy, of the accumulation of forces and rights and the convincing of or neutralisation of social enemies’ (p.254). Representative democracy is thus shown as the destination of the revolution. According to Varela, by contrast, representative democracy defeated direct democracy. In her book launch in the Marx Memorial Library in London, Varela described the Portuguese ruling class as being forced to give their rings so as not to lose their fingers.

This 25th April should be celebrated and remembered as a moment when the working class attempted to seize power and show the world that an alternative is possible.


https://www.counterfire.org/articles/book-reviews/20282-a-people-s-history-of-the-portuguese-revolution-book-review
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on November 13, 2021, 09:08:21 PM
See if you can find it in here: it didn't happen overnight in 1974 there was unrest for a far longer period.  If Eleanor was living there at the time - I think she will remember it well.

Over forty years of dictatorship had left a vacuum of organisations. Workers’ commissions (comissões de trabalhadores) and residents’ commissions (comissões de moradores) emerged to occupy the vacuum. Residents’ commissions represented the occupation movements which started in Porto and quickly spread to Lisbon and other cities. Workers occupied factories, farms and shipyards. Some of these could not really be considered occupations simply because the owners had abandoned their properties and fled to Brazil. However, Varela stresses that the occupations were about workers’ self-management and not workers’ control. She quotes a worker from Lisnave Margueira shipyard: ‘There will not be workers’ control if we merely intend to run the bosses’ businesses’ (p.144). The occupations and workers’ self-management rose awareness among workers of the importance of taking over political power. The Portuguese was the last revolution in Europe, and maybe in the world, to call into question the private ownership of the means of production.

Defeat of the revolution
So, what went wrong? Using the Russian Revolution as a metaphor, why didn’t February metamorphose into October? Why was the April 1974 revolution defeated in November 1975? Varela discusses some factors that contributed to the defeat and lays a large part of the responsibility on the broad shoulders of the Communist Party (PCP). In an attempt to contain the widespread political activity from below, the pro-Soviet Communist Party was invited to take part in the First Provisional Government in May 1974 and took part in all the six provisional governments thereafter.

The Communist Party was ‘the only force that effectively resisted fascism’ (p .45) and paid a heavy price with many members in prison. In April 1974, the party had no more than three thousand militants. A year later it had grown to 100,000. The Communist Party shared the Soviet cold-war view of the world as one of peaceful co-existence. Supporting this policy was the idea that the division of the world between the socialist and capitalist bloc should be respected. The strategy of the PCP was to win rights for the workers, not to seize political power.

Revolutions will always reach a point when the issue of power comes to the forefront. By the summer of ’75 the country had become increasingly divided. The Socialist Party knew that the favourable outcomes in the elections for the Constitutional Assembly and in the trade unions were not enough to defeat the workers’ control movement which had spread since February. A clear alliance was formed with the Church, the upper hierarchy of the armed forces and the moderates in the MFA, known as the Group of Nine.

On 25th November, the Group of Nine moved against a group of left-wing soldiers organised in the Soldados Unidos Vencerão (Soldiers United for Victory or SUV). The SUV was a rank and file organisation that aimed to prepare the ‘conditions that would permit the destruction of the bourgeois Army and the creation of the armed wing, the Power of Workers, a People’s Revolutionary Army’ (p.225).

Previously, the fear was of a Chileanization of the Portuguese Revolution. The fear was that the counter revolution would be inspired by fascism and would come from outside the MFA, and not from those who had supported the 25th April. The workers and soldiers were not prepared for a social-democratic counter revolution. Too much trust was put on the officers of the MFA and ‘no real structure of organisation of the rank and file existed able to lead at the testing time’ (p.245).

The need for revolutionary organisation
There was resistance against the coup and in support of the soldiers, mainly by groups of building workers who used walkie-talkies, and commandeered enormous earth-movers and concrete-mixers, in order to block the advance of commandos of the Group of Nine who were on the road to arrest members of the SUV. The problem of the 25th November was that there was not a centralised command that organised the resistance, and neither the unions nor the workers’ commissions, controlled by the PCP, were interested in resisting.

The fact that the Communist Party agreed not to resist the move against the SUV weighs heavily on their shoulders. The Socialist Party and the Church initially did not want the Communists in the government, but sectors of the military knew of the strength and influence of the Party among the soldiers and demanded it:

‘The Portuguese Communist Party was prepared to abandon its radical army supporters (and a great many others) in exchange for a continued stake in government. The military left had become a burden on the Communist Party because its performance undermined the balance of power with the Nine and peaceful coexistence agreements between the USA, Western Europe and the USSR. Some 200 soldiers and officers, plus a handful of building workers, were arrested’ (p.246).

Forty-five years after the Revolution its memory is in dispute. The Socialist Party and the establishment will try to portray it ‘as a long process of extending democracy, of the accumulation of forces and rights and the convincing of or neutralisation of social enemies’ (p.254). Representative democracy is thus shown as the destination of the revolution. According to Varela, by contrast, representative democracy defeated direct democracy. In her book launch in the Marx Memorial Library in London, Varela described the Portuguese ruling class as being forced to give their rings so as not to lose their fingers.

This 25th April should be celebrated and remembered as a moment when the working class attempted to seize power and show the world that an alternative is possible.


https://www.counterfire.org/articles/book-reviews/20282-a-people-s-history-of-the-portuguese-revolution-book-review

In 1974 a Goverment was overthrown, which is what revolution means. There was then a period of adjustment, but I don't think the skirmishes can be described as another revolution.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on November 13, 2021, 10:08:14 PM
In 1974 a Goverment was overthrown, which is what revolution means. There was then a period of adjustment, but I don't think the skirmishes can be described as another revolution.

There was a counter revolution in 1975.

Advanced layers move ahead of the class
Lacking this, they were engaged in vanguardism. This is a phase that all revolutions go through. The advanced guard feels that the revolution is slipping from their hands and takes action, but isn’t followed by the masses. Like the July Days in 1917 Russia, May Days in Barcelona in 1937. The CP leaders played a treacherous role. At the same time that they were inside the government, until November 1975, they were also outside mobilizing against the government. Their main line was to follow the MFA.

This situation was resolved in the crucial juncture on November 25th. In the middle of huge confusion, the government removed Otelo Saraiva de Carvalho, the most radical MFA leader, from his commanding position. Confusion ensued among lower ranking officers, the red regiments did not know what to do.
Confusion ensued among lower ranking officers, the red regiments did not know what to do. The more conservative army units were sent against the more radical ones. Some people said that this was a CP-organised takeover. Many people were against the idea of the CP taking over. Workers went to the Fuerte de Almada barracks to get arms, but there were none to be had.

In general, the mass of workers remained passive. The CP was removed from the government and this started a slow and protracted process of counterrevolution in a democratic form.

The regime had emerged after November 25 still called itself a revolutionary government. It could not immediately privatise the banks. It took months to re-establish discipline within military. But they were able to carry out the main task at that time: to take on the left wing elements among the armed forces, arresting many of them. And thus, the movement was left completely without leadership.

The SP supported counterrevolution, and the CP was paralyzed. The strength of the working class required the counterrevolution to be done in a democratic form.

New elections took place in 1976 where Mario Soares, the SP leader, won.

https://www.socialist.net/portugal-1974-75-a-revolution-derailed.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on November 13, 2021, 10:24:16 PM
There was a counter revolution in 1975.

Advanced layers move ahead of the class
Lacking this, they were engaged in vanguardism. This is a phase that all revolutions go through. The advanced guard feels that the revolution is slipping from their hands and takes action, but isn’t followed by the masses. Like the July Days in 1917 Russia, May Days in Barcelona in 1937. The CP leaders played a treacherous role. At the same time that they were inside the government, until November 1975, they were also outside mobilizing against the government. Their main line was to follow the MFA.

This situation was resolved in the crucial juncture on November 25th. In the middle of huge confusion, the government removed Otelo Saraiva de Carvalho, the most radical MFA leader, from his commanding position. Confusion ensued among lower ranking officers, the red regiments did not know what to do.
Confusion ensued among lower ranking officers, the red regiments did not know what to do. The more conservative army units were sent against the more radical ones. Some people said that this was a CP-organised takeover. Many people were against the idea of the CP taking over. Workers went to the Fuerte de Almada barracks to get arms, but there were none to be had.

In general, the mass of workers remained passive. The CP was removed from the government and this started a slow and protracted process of counterrevolution in a democratic form.

The regime had emerged after November 25 still called itself a revolutionary government. It could not immediately privatise the banks. It took months to re-establish discipline within military. But they were able to carry out the main task at that time: to take on the left wing elements among the armed forces, arresting many of them. And thus, the movement was left completely without leadership.

The SP supported counterrevolution, and the CP was paralyzed. The strength of the working class required the counterrevolution to be done in a democratic form.

New elections took place in 1976 where Mario Soares, the SP leader, won.

https://www.socialist.net/portugal-1974-75-a-revolution-derailed.htm

It isn't recorded as a revolution.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 13, 2021, 10:37:57 PM
It isn't recorded as a revolution.
You’re just being a pedant now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on November 13, 2021, 11:54:59 PM
I do know Portugal a bit, especially during both Revolutions.

But probably more to the point I remember The Michael Cooke Affair when he appeared in Court beaten up and with teeth missing.  The British Government weren't having that happening again.

As well. That case was brought up in Parliament.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1992/jun/09/mr-michael-cook

However, the Cipriano case might have been fresher in the minds of those in diplomatic circles.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on November 14, 2021, 07:52:53 AM
You’re just being a pedant now.

Am I, or is it those who claim a revolution occured despite there being no record of it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 14, 2021, 07:57:46 AM
Am I, or is it those who claim a revolution occured despite there being no record of it?
There are numerous references online to a revolution and a counter revolution in Portugal in the 70s, I respectfully suggest you take it up with them rather than carrying on this history debat here, it’s not really very relevant is it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on November 14, 2021, 08:52:25 AM
There are numerous references online to a revolution and a counter revolution in Portugal in the 70s, I respectfully suggest you take it up with them rather than carrying on this history debat here, it’s not really very relevant is it?

It's not relevant at all, but it gets mentioned regularly for some reason.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 14, 2021, 09:43:25 AM
It's not relevant at all, but it gets mentioned regularly for some reason.
Time to move on then I think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on November 14, 2021, 10:22:33 AM
Time to move on then I think.

I agree. After all, it happened when Amaral was 15 years old.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on November 14, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
As well. That case was brought up in Parliament.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1992/jun/09/mr-michael-cook

However, the Cipriano case might have been fresher in the minds of those in diplomatic circles.

The Cipriano Case just served to prove that beatings were still going on.

Thanks for that report.  I feel sick all over again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on November 14, 2021, 02:48:01 PM
I agree. After all, it happened when Amaral was 15 years old.

Amaral was educated by the old regime.  And not surprisingly told lies in court.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on November 14, 2021, 06:30:48 PM
Amaral was educated by the old regime.  And not surprisingly told lies in court.

I very much doubt that Amaral would have been involved in the Cook case, but Encarnação (head honcho of the Faro directorate until he became very ill and died in 2010, aged 63, and Amaral's superior) may well have been.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on November 14, 2021, 06:34:17 PM
I very much doubt that Amaral would have been involved in the Cook case, but Encarnação (head honcho of the Faro directorate until he became very ill and died in 2010, aged 63, and Amaral's superior) may well have been.

I don't know who was involved.  It's the mindset that worries me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 15, 2022, 02:30:26 AM
I was intrigued to come across the following from Bild.  I had read about the German prosecutor's put down in the British press but this gives it a slightly different slant.

NEW ALLEGATIONS
Ex-policeman scolds German Maddie investigators
BKA and public prosecutor's office had "almost fraudulently" pulled the case to themselves
by: KAI FELDHAUSpublished on
07.10.2021 - 18:26 o'clock
Praia da Luz (Portugal) – The fired chief investigator does not rest!

After Maddie McCann (then 3) disappeared from an apartment in the Algarve in May 2007, Kripochef Goncalo Amaral (62) led the investigation for four months. He suspected Maddie's parents, was dismissed from his post and put into early retirement.

Next week, a new book will be published in Portugal in which Amaral deals with the latest investigations against the suspect Christian Brückner (44).

BKA and Braunschweig public prosecutor's office consider the German child molester, who is currently in custody in Oldenburg for rape, to be the man who kidnapped and killed Maddie.

Amaral, who apparently still has good contacts with the Portuguese police, is going to court with the German investigators, according to BILD information.

They had appropriated the Maddie case with a "trick" by constructing a German suspect and thus creating a German jurisdiction. Amaral calls this procedure "almost fraudulent": The Germans have launched their own criminal trial in order to be able to put aside the investigations that have been conducted in Portugal for 14 years.

Why the BKA and the Braunschweig Public Prosecutor's Office, which have so far had nothing to do with the Maddie case, should have done so – Amaral still owes this answer.

The ex-investigator, who had already made similar accusations in the BILD documentary "My Biggest Case", goes even further: He spreads details from the lives of three witnesses in the Maddie case, wants to portray them as implausible.

EX-INVESTIGATORS EXCLUSIVELY IN BILD
Christian Brückner is only a scapegoat

All investigations against Brückner are part of a great conspiracy, instigated by Scotland Yard, which is under pressure to succeed. The conclusions of the Portuguese investigators – that Maddie's parents were to blame for the disappearance of their daughter – would be ignored, instead forming a kind of "syndicate" that would submit to the British authorities.

Hans Christian Wolters, spokesman for the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office, commented on the allegations: "We are not interested in the views and assessments of a former Portuguese police officer because we assume that he does not have our investigation results and files. It is therefore completely irrelevant to us what Mr. Amaral thinks, says and writes."


https://www.bild.de/news/ausland/news-ausland/neues-buch-im-fall-maddie-ex-polizist-schimpft-auf-deutsche-ermittler-77897004.bild.html###wt_ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&wt_t=1642212194158
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 15, 2022, 07:54:49 AM
I was intrigued to come across the following from Bild.  I had read about the German prosecutor's put down in the British press but this gives it a slightly different slant.

NEW ALLEGATIONS
Ex-policeman scolds German Maddie investigators
BKA and public prosecutor's office had "almost fraudulently" pulled the case to themselves
by: KAI FELDHAUSpublished on
07.10.2021 - 18:26 o'clock
Praia da Luz (Portugal) – The fired chief investigator does not rest!

After Maddie McCann (then 3) disappeared from an apartment in the Algarve in May 2007, Kripochef Goncalo Amaral (62) led the investigation for four months. He suspected Maddie's parents, was dismissed from his post and put into early retirement.

Next week, a new book will be published in Portugal in which Amaral deals with the latest investigations against the suspect Christian Brückner (44).

BKA and Braunschweig public prosecutor's office consider the German child molester, who is currently in custody in Oldenburg for rape, to be the man who kidnapped and killed Maddie.

Amaral, who apparently still has good contacts with the Portuguese police, is going to court with the German investigators, according to BILD information.

They had appropriated the Maddie case with a "trick" by constructing a German suspect and thus creating a German jurisdiction. Amaral calls this procedure "almost fraudulent": The Germans have launched their own criminal trial in order to be able to put aside the investigations that have been conducted in Portugal for 14 years.

Why the BKA and the Braunschweig Public Prosecutor's Office, which have so far had nothing to do with the Maddie case, should have done so – Amaral still owes this answer.

The ex-investigator, who had already made similar accusations in the BILD documentary "My Biggest Case", goes even further: He spreads details from the lives of three witnesses in the Maddie case, wants to portray them as implausible.

EX-INVESTIGATORS EXCLUSIVELY IN BILD
Christian Brückner is only a scapegoat

All investigations against Brückner are part of a great conspiracy, instigated by Scotland Yard, which is under pressure to succeed. The conclusions of the Portuguese investigators – that Maddie's parents were to blame for the disappearance of their daughter – would be ignored, instead forming a kind of "syndicate" that would submit to the British authorities.

Hans Christian Wolters, spokesman for the Braunschweig public prosecutor's office, commented on the allegations: "We are not interested in the views and assessments of a former Portuguese police officer because we assume that he does not have our investigation results and files. It is therefore completely irrelevant to us what Mr. Amaral thinks, says and writes."


https://www.bild.de/news/ausland/news-ausland/neues-buch-im-fall-maddie-ex-polizist-schimpft-auf-deutsche-ermittler-77897004.bild.html###wt_ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&wt_t=1642212194158

Amaral hasn't gone quiet then; at least he was still speaking last October.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 15, 2022, 08:25:36 AM
Still talking absolute bilge it would seem. Wasn’t he just publicising his latest flop publication?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 15, 2022, 09:30:16 AM
Amaral hasn't gone quiet then; at least he was still speaking last October.

Amaral has stopped promoting his claim of an accidental death and cover up.. That's  a fact you can't seem to accept
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 15, 2022, 09:31:29 AM
Amaral hasn't gone quiet then; at least he was still speaking last October.

On the contrary - for him, he has gone relatively quiet and when he does say anything it causes a little bit of head scratching in wonderment.
His interventions have featured in discussion elsewhere in relation to the MWT documentary.  In what he has said he has apparently drawn the wrong kind of interest towards himself.  If it is anything like the bilge he has uttered above I think when they do eventually get round to dealing with him he'll be going for the insanity plea.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 15, 2022, 09:34:48 AM
Amaral hasn't gone quiet then; at least he was still speaking last October.
Remember you give no credibility to amarals claims
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 15, 2022, 09:39:29 AM
Amaral has stopped promoting his claim of an accidental death and cover up.. That's  a fact you can't seem to accept

Has he been asked to comment and refused? If not, then nothing can be deduced from the fact that he is talking about other matters at the moment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 15, 2022, 09:45:35 AM

Gosh.  Nearly four months.  Perhaps no one is asking him anything anymore.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 15, 2022, 09:56:08 AM
Has he been asked to comment and refused? If not, then nothing can be deduced from the fact that he is talking about other matters at the moment.


MWT is helping out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 15, 2022, 09:59:40 AM
Has he been asked to comment and refused? If not, then nothing can be deduced from the fact that he is talking about other matters at the moment.


He's discussed blame Re the parents but only now he only mentions neglect..  Imo you simply won't accept true facts.  He hasn't mentioned his so called theory for perhaps two years now
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 15, 2022, 10:42:26 AM

He's discussed blame Re the parents but only now he only mentions neglect..  Imo you simply won't accept true facts.  He hasn't mentioned his so called theory for perhaps two years now

Amaral is worried about The ECHR decision.  This could get nasty if Amaral loses.

Have no doubt that this is all about Amaral, Portugal notwithstanding.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on January 15, 2022, 10:45:13 AM
Amaral is worried about The ECHR decision.  This could get nasty if Amaral loses.

Have no doubt that this is all about Amaral, Portugal notwithstanding.

I think you are completely wrong here, but we shall see in the fullness of time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 15, 2022, 10:53:46 AM
I think you are completely wrong here, but we shall see in the fullness of time.

I am wrong about what?  Amaral or The Supreme Court?

Amaral did write a Libellous Book based on his supposed knowledge of The Case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 15, 2022, 10:55:25 AM
I think you are completely wrong here, but we shall see in the fullness of time.

Eleanor is absolutely right.  If the McCanns win in Europe that could lead to the libel case being retried in portugal
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 15, 2022, 10:57:59 AM
I am wrong about what?  Amaral or The Supreme Court?

Amaral did write a Libellous Book based on his supposed knowledge of The Case.


We could get into a argument about that, now seeing as neither one of us or any one else on here is employed by Carter Ruck, (that we know of) "Libellous Book" is but an opinion not backed by law.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 15, 2022, 10:58:47 AM
Eleanor is absolutely right.  If the McCanns win in Europe that could lead to the libel case being retried in portugal


If ,buts and mauve's why not wait for the verdict which ever way it goes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 15, 2022, 11:09:15 AM

If ,buts and mauve's why not wait for the verdict which ever way it goes.

I tend to agree but it's sceptics that are repeatedly telling us it's going to be thrown out
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 15, 2022, 12:05:50 PM

We could get into a argument about that, now seeing as neither one of us or any one else on here is employed by Carter Ruck, (that we know of) "Libellous Book" is but an opinion not backed by law.

Not backed by Portuguese Law.  Which is entirely suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on January 15, 2022, 12:12:35 PM
Eleanor is absolutely right.  If the McCanns win in Europe that could lead to the libel case being retried in portugal

I think that's just your wishful thinking.

Whoever wins, that'll be the end of it .

IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 15, 2022, 12:16:16 PM
Not backed by Portuguese Law.  Which is entirely suspect.

Portuguese law is entirely suspect in your opinion. In reality most countries on the continent of Europe have similar legal systems.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 15, 2022, 12:23:00 PM
I think that's just your wishful thinking.

Whoever wins, that'll be the end of it .

IMO
Not on here it won't be.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 15, 2022, 12:30:40 PM
Portuguese law is entirely suspect in your opinion. In reality most countries on the continent of Europe have similar legal systems.

Have you any knowledge of other European Countries beating up suspects?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 15, 2022, 01:52:33 PM
Have you any knowledge of other European Countries beating up suspects?

It's not unknown;

the infamous reputation of the French system of custody (garde à vue), suspect interview (evocatively called interrogatoire) and the frequency of subsequent confession, not unassociated with the violence reported – the most notorious case concerned Ahmed Selmouni, who took France to the Court of European Human Rights alleging he was both physically and seriously sexually assaulted while in police custody.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10439463.2013.784294

France becomes first EU state to be convicted of torture
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/france-becomes-first-eu-state-to-be-convicted-of-torture-1.211387
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 15, 2022, 02:15:59 PM
I think that's just your wishful thinking.

Whoever wins, that'll be the end of it .

IMO

It's part of Portuguese law.. Not wishful thinking at all
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 15, 2022, 02:17:03 PM
It's not unknown;

the infamous reputation of the French system of custody (garde à vue), suspect interview (evocatively called interrogatoire) and the frequency of subsequent confession, not unassociated with the violence reported – the most notorious case concerned Ahmed Selmouni, who took France to the Court of European Human Rights alleging he was both physically and seriously sexually assaulted while in police custody.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10439463.2013.784294

France becomes first EU state to be convicted of torture
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/france-becomes-first-eu-state-to-be-convicted-of-torture-1.211387

1991.  Some fourteen years before Portugal were still doing the same thing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 16, 2022, 07:42:28 AM
1991.  Some fourteen years before Portugal were still doing the same thing.

The French police are nothing to write home about now.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7az5m/michel-zecler-french-cops-charged-after-video-of-black-music-producer-being-beaten-goes-viral

Note the violence and the covering up by falsifying reports. I loved the authorities response to citizens filming police brutality and sharing it; make the filming illegal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 16, 2022, 08:54:05 AM
The French police are nothing to write home about now.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7az5m/michel-zecler-french-cops-charged-after-video-of-black-music-producer-being-beaten-goes-viral

Note the violence and the covering up by falsifying reports. I loved the authorities response to citizens filming police brutality and sharing it; make the filming illegal.

I don't think Amaral was ever in the French police.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 16, 2022, 08:59:29 AM
I don't think Amaral was ever in the French police.

I'm sure I heard they tried to recruit him
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 16, 2022, 09:22:19 AM
I don't think Amaral was ever in the French police.

Portuguese, French, German, Austrian, Belgian, Dutch. Similar legal systems, similar police cultures.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 16, 2022, 03:13:31 PM
Portuguese, French, German, Austrian, Belgian, Dutch. Similar legal systems, similar police cultures.

Is it the norm for the police of these countries to face torture trials and to write best selling Penny Dreadfuls about failed and questionable police activities regarding the conduct of missing children cases?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 16, 2022, 03:39:40 PM
Is it the norm for the police of these countries to face torture trials and to write best selling Penny Dreadfuls about failed and questionable police activities regarding the conduct of missing children cases?

No.

And I actually live in France and have done so for a very long time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on January 16, 2022, 04:42:47 PM
Is it the norm for the police of these countries to face torture trials and to write best selling Penny Dreadfuls about failed and questionable police activities regarding the conduct of missing children cases?

Best seller?  Surely not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 16, 2022, 05:05:00 PM
No.

And I actually live in France and have done so for a very long time.

There is no doubt that of the two cases that Amaral was associated with involving missing children huge and obvious  errors were made.

The sceptic tactic of attempting to mitigate these by highlighting other bent coppers from elsewhere really goes nowhere towards rectifying what was and what was not done in Portugal in 2007.

Much of which has been insinuated in his pension pot best seller by Amaral as being 'all his own work'.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on January 16, 2022, 08:21:48 PM
There is no doubt that of the two cases that Amaral was associated with involving missing children huge and obvious  errors were made.

The sceptic tactic of attempting to mitigate these by highlighting other bent coppers from elsewhere really goes nowhere towards rectifying what was and what was not done in Portugal in 2007.

Much of which has been insinuated in his pension pot best seller by Amaral as being 'all his own work'.

I agree…Amaral did make huge errors in the McCann case. Who knows whether these contributed to them remaining free?

ETA I’ve just noticed that my post has been reinstated.

Thank you John.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 16, 2022, 08:52:21 PM
I agree…Amaral did make huge errors in the McCann case. Who knows whether these contributed to them remaining free?
-
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 17, 2022, 09:51:18 PM
There is no doubt that of the two cases that Amaral was associated with involving missing children huge and obvious  errors were made.

The sceptic tactic of attempting to mitigate these by highlighting other bent coppers from elsewhere really goes nowhere towards rectifying what was and what was not done in Portugal in 2007.

Much of which has been insinuated in his pension pot best seller by Amaral as being 'all his own work'.

Could you elaborate on what these huge errors were please Brietta?

I ask because in the Cipriano case he rightly prosecuted the two culprits for the murder of Joana and for assisting an offender and in the McCann case we still don't know what befell Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 17, 2022, 10:28:54 PM
Could you elaborate on what these huge errors were please Brietta?

I ask because in the Cipriano case he rightly prosecuted the two culprits for the murder of Joana and for assisting an offender and in the McCann case we still don't know what befell Madeleine McCann.

I don't think we know what happened to Joana.  Just as in Madeleine's case there was not a trace of her.

One wonders if one of the constants of Figueira 2004 and Praia da Luz 2007 was Brueckner - now the prime suspect in Madeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 17, 2022, 10:57:37 PM
I don't think we know what happened to Joana.  Just as in Madeleine's case there was not a trace of her.

One wonders if one of the constants of Figueira 2004 and Praia da Luz 2007 was Brueckner - now the prime suspect in Madeleine's disappearance.

As was Goncalo Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 18, 2022, 12:07:57 AM
I don't think we know what happened to Joana.  Just as in Madeleine's case there was not a trace of her.

One wonders if one of the constants of Figueira 2004 and Praia da Luz 2007 was Brueckner - now the prime suspect in Madeleine's disappearance.

Well John Cipriano confessed to killing Joana and Leonor agreed that she assisted him after the fact and covered up for him. I don't think we need much more to know what occurred.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on January 18, 2022, 12:22:03 AM
Well John Cipriano confessed to killing Joana and Leonor agreed that she assisted him after the fact and covered up for him. I don't think we need much more to know what occurred.

I keep coming back to this crime, a bodyless conviction in Germany which the prosecutors got so horribly wrong.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/20/rudolf-rupp-farmer-family-trial

In the absence of corroborating forensics, the intricate details of Joana's alleged murder by Joao and subsequent assistance by Leonor were never truly established.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 18, 2022, 12:28:41 AM
I keep coming back to this crime, a bodyless conviction in Germany which the prosecutors got so horribly wrong.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/20/rudolf-rupp-farmer-family-trial

In the absence of corroborating forensics, the intricate details of Joana's alleged murder by Joao and subsequent assistance by Leonor were never truly established.

There was plenty of forensics in the Cipriano house, add witness statements and the girls whereabouts really weren't much of a mystery.

This has been gone over multiple times, do people really believe that John Cipriano actually admitted to murder and even went through with a reconstruction if all he had done wrong was to sell his niece to a trafficker?  He is now out on parole and hasn't once denied what he did.

Same goes for Leonor who is also out on parole.  She originally confess d to killing her daughter but later relented and admitted that she had done so in an attempt to protect her brother John.  She knew that John would be sent back to prison since he already had a conviction for attempted murder hanging over him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on January 18, 2022, 01:01:11 AM
There was plenty of forensics in the Cipriano house, add witness statements and the girls whereabouts really weren't much of a mystery.

This has been gone over multiple times, do people really believe that John Cipriano actually admitted to murder and even went through with a reconstruction if all he had done wrong was to sell his niece to a trafficker?  He is now out on parole and hasn't once denied what he did.

You have to question whether it was more beneficial to him to confess to a murder he didn't commit than admit  he'd sold Joana to traffickers but the deal went wrong. It's possible there were individuals who didn't want trafficking investigated.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 18, 2022, 01:26:40 AM
You have to question whether it was more beneficial to him to confess to a murder he didn't commit than admit  he'd sold Joana to traffickers but the deal went wrong. It's possible there were individuals who didn't want trafficking investigated.

Very true but if he had done such a deal there would have been a payment trail but none exists. Similarly, the investigation into a potential abduction has come to nothing, the claims were all dead ends.

Only John Cipriano knows what really happened to Joana's remains, neither of his various versions have ever been proven one way or another. In the beginning he claimed she was buried in a field, then she was fed to the pigs and later still she was buried up in the hills. If the latter was true he would have been able to find the grave but that too never happened, Joana remains missing.

In my view Amaral did a reasonable job in bringing the Ciprianos to justice, unfortunately the wrong sibling ended up with the greater sentence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on January 18, 2022, 01:48:24 AM
Very true but if he had done such a deal there would have been a payment trail but none exists. Similarly, the investigation into a potential abduction has come to nothing, the claims were all dead ends.

Only John Cipriano knows what really happened to Joana's remains, neither of his various versions have ever been proven one way or another. In the beginning he claimed she was buried in a field, then she was fed to the pigs and later still she was buried up in the hills. If the latter was true he would have been able to find the grave but that too never happened, Joana remains missing.

In my view Amaral did a reasonable job in bringing the Ciprianos to justice, unfortunately the wrong sibling ended up with the greater sentence.

There would be no payment trail if the traffickers had reneged on the deal and taken Joana away by force. What would his options have been?
As I said previously, very little attempt was made to verify the circumstances of the alleged murder and body disposal. When reconstitutions are carried out, generally the police "make suggestions" to an arguido during the exercise as to what happened. To even begin to entertain the idea that Joana's dismembered body was stored in a small freezer when the police had been called to the property is bizarre imo.
 In Portugal, it always seems to be the woman's fault.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on January 18, 2022, 02:47:55 AM
Well John Cipriano confessed to killing Joana and Leonor agreed that she assisted him after the fact and covered up for him. I don't think we need much more to know what occurred.

Joao did not exhibit the strength that Leonor did. 
As a drug addict, imo, he could be bought by police offering to give him earlier withdrawn drugs.

Anything would be preferable to Leonor than being classified by the world at large as the murderer of her own daughter, and after the terrible torturing that she had suffered

Yes I remember reading the shock horror of hearing of this woman in PT who we were told had fed her daughter to the pigs.  Yes the whole western world knew about it.   What a terrible sin to paint a mother in such  way with no sound indicators at all.

What an evil imagination Amaral has, but let's not forget that Cristovao also a PJ (?Chief) inspector was part of this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on January 18, 2022, 02:57:42 AM
There was plenty of forensics in the Cipriano house, add witness statements and the girls whereabouts really weren't much of a mystery.

This has been gone over multiple times, do people really believe that John Cipriano actually admitted to murder and even went through with a reconstruction if all he had done wrong was to sell his niece to a trafficker?  He is now out on parole and hasn't once denied what he did.

Same goes for Leonor who is also out on parole.  She originally confess d to killing her daughter but later relented and admitted that she had done so in an attempt to protect her brother John.  She knew that John would be sent back to prison since he already had a conviction for attempted murder hanging over him.

John.  You were a polceman.

Please can you tell us what the forensics were.   I am talking about scientifically proven forensics.

I do remember lots of smear tactics being done, same as against The Mccanns
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on January 18, 2022, 03:27:30 AM
Very true but if he had done such a deal there would have been a payment trail but none exists. Similarly, the investigation into a potential abduction has come to nothing, the claims were all dead ends.

Only John Cipriano knows what really happened to Joana's remains, neither of his various versions have ever been proven one way or another. In the beginning he claimed she was buried in a field, then she was fed to the pigs and later still she was buried up in the hills. If the latter was true he would have been able to find the grave but that too never happened, Joana remains missing.

In my view Amaral did a reasonable job in bringing the Ciprianos to justice, unfortunately the wrong sibling ended up with the greater sentence.

Payment trail?  John, we are not talking CRIMINAL BIG business here.

IF, and I don't believe Joana was sold.  IF she was sold  Then a couple of hundred pounds would be big money to someone like Joao.  No payment trail for such a piddling amount.  And think of the drugs that would by

I used to talk to someone from Portugal who worked in an hospital.  He was mature and on an adult salary and he earned absolute peanuts.   I cant remember how little it was but I tremember wondering how he could exist on such a low income.  No adult in the UK would have worked for double the amount.

Almost certainly IMO Joana was kidnapped.  If she was, then Joao was unable to say where she was.  Joao, being we are told, of somewhat limited intellect would probably try and defuse the situation when demands were made of him to tell the PJ where she was.   Maybe he feared a roughing up - or - Maybe he was offered his fix ?

Dunno!  But I can't help wondering
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 18, 2022, 07:26:58 AM
There was plenty of forensics in the Cipriano house, add witness statements and the girls whereabouts really weren't much of a mystery.

This has been gone over multiple times, do people really believe that John Cipriano actually admitted to murder and even went through with a reconstruction if all he had done wrong was to sell his niece to a trafficker?  He is now out on parole and hasn't once denied what he did.

Same goes for Leonor who is also out on parole.  She originally confess d to killing her daughter but later relented and admitted that she had done so in an attempt to protect her brother John.  She knew that John would be sent back to prison since he already had a conviction for attempted murder hanging over him.
There were no forensics John, none anyway which linked to Joana as far as I recall, no dna and given that she was supposed to have been carved up and fed to the pigs the place should have been awash with blood and bits for any self respecting police force to discover. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2022, 11:42:30 AM
Well John Cipriano confessed to killing Joana and Leonor agreed that she assisted him after the fact and covered up for him. I don't think we need much more to know what occurred.

I wonder why the innocent mother hasn't set up a Find Joana Facebook page, considering her child definitely wasn't murdered?

I wonder why the innocent uncle hasn't done so either?

Oh well, probably not worth giving too much thought.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 18, 2022, 12:20:55 PM
I wonder why the innocent mother hasn't set up a Find Joana Facebook page, considering her child definitely wasn't murdered?

I wonder why the innocent uncle hasn't done so either?

Oh well, probably not worth giving too much thought.
I think if one of these fluff 'documentaries' ever went and interviewed him he'd probably still maintain he did it and Leonor was in on it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2022, 12:24:52 PM
I wonder why the innocent mother hasn't set up a Find Joana Facebook page, considering her child definitely wasn't murdered?

I wonder why the innocent uncle hasn't done so either?

Oh well, probably not worth giving too much thought.

If Kate had been beaten black and blue and successfully fitted up for her daughter's murder as Leonor was for hers NO-ONE WOULD BE LOOKING FOR MADELEINE either.

As it is a piece of filth has been removed from the streets of Europe for the time being.  Who is coincidentally the prime suspect in Madeleine's case and who - without Kate's efforts on her behalf would have been on the prowl again when he'd done his time for drugs.

On the other hand - had Amaral and Cristovao concentrated on the job in hand in 2004 and 2007 instead of penning their penny dreadfuls - it is possible that no-one would have heard of Joanna.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 18, 2022, 12:25:42 PM
I think if one of these fluff 'documentaries' ever went and interviewed him he'd probably still maintain he did it and Leonor was in on it.
What did he maintain he did though?  His account of what he did varied wildly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 18, 2022, 12:26:31 PM
What did he maintain he did though?  His account of what he did varied wildly.
Not 'wildly' enough, clearly, your words, not mine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 18, 2022, 12:32:18 PM
Not 'wildly' enough, clearly, your words, not mine.
I don't understand your point.  Wildly differing accounts of a crime confessed to is often an indicator that the confessor is making it up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 18, 2022, 12:33:19 PM
Incidentally if setting up a Facebook account to find your missing child is an indicator of innocence what does that make the McCanns?  You sceptics can't have it both ways, really. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2022, 12:35:14 PM
The problem she had is that parole is not available unless you admit to the crime.. Even if she's innocent. So lots of different stories to try and get parole. All my opinion but I'm right
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2022, 12:37:03 PM
Goncalo Amaral seems to have gone to an inordinate about of effort to draw suspicion away from Breuckner.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2022, 12:37:53 PM
Incidentally if setting up a Facebook account to find your missing child is an indicator of innocence what does that make the McCanns?  You sceptics can't have it both ways, really.

Making efforts to find your missing child would be consistent with you having no involvement, that's logical.

Appearing to make efforts to find your child could also be done in the event that you were involved.

But, making absolutely no effort to clear your name or find your child isn't consistent with being innocent, do you see?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2022, 12:40:13 PM
Making efforts to find your missing child would be consistent with you having no involvement, that's logical.

Appearing to make efforts to find your child could also be done in the event that you were involved.

But, making absolutely no effort to clear your name or find your child isn't consistent with being innocent, do you see?

No.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2022, 12:42:00 PM
No.

Oh right.

Were it you & your precious child were out there waiting to be found, you'd do nothing about it would you?

I see.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 18, 2022, 12:43:01 PM
Incidentally if setting up a Facebook account to find your missing child is an indicator of innocence what does that make the McCanns?  You sceptics can't have it both ways, really.
If were using obtuse examples, Karen Matthews went on GMTV. Can't have it both ways supporters, etc, blah, blah.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 18, 2022, 12:44:17 PM
If were using obtuse examples, Karen Matthews went on GMTV. Can't have it both ways supporters, etc, blah, blah.
I wasn't making any argument about what a parent of a missing child should or shouldn't be doing was I?  No, that was the resident troll. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 18, 2022, 12:48:27 PM
The problem she had is that parole is not available unless you admit to the crime.. Even if she's innocent. So lots of different stories to try and get parole. All my opinion but I'm right
So you think she admitted it just to get out of prison? Despite being convicted and having admitted her role?
Davel's Razor strikes again - the most illogical explanation must be the right one, right, right?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2022, 12:53:46 PM
So you think she admitted it just to get out of prison? Despite being convicted and having admitted her role?
Davel's Razor strikes again - the most illogical explanation must be the right one, right, right?

There is nothing even remotely illogical about Davel.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2022, 12:57:04 PM
Goncalo Amaral seems to have gone to an inordinate about of effort to draw suspicion away from Breuckner.

Without the video of him ferrying the German young folk around around the blatant lie about his long 'hippy style hair' would not have been exposed.

Very careless of him to get caught like that I think.  Smacks of desperation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2022, 01:02:35 PM
Without the video of him ferrying the German young folk around around the blatant lie about his long 'hippy style hair' would not have been exposed.

Very careless of him to get caught like that I think.  Smacks of desperation.

It smacks of a bit more than desperation to me.  Very, very suspicious I think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2022, 01:06:50 PM
It smacks of a bit more than desperation to me.  Very, very suspicious I think.

You find that suspicious, but not the lack of concern for a child's welfare by an innocent mother.

I can't say I'm surprised by this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2022, 01:15:35 PM
It smacks of a bit more than desperation to me.  Very, very suspicious I think.

I've noticed posters elsewhere who have made similar observations - seems the penny is beginning to drop.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 18, 2022, 01:16:48 PM
There is nothing even remotely illogical about Davel.
Almost brought a tear to my eye that. Quite touching.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 18, 2022, 01:18:21 PM
Without the video of him ferrying the German young folk around around the blatant lie about his long 'hippy style hair' would not have been exposed.

Very careless of him to get caught like that I think.  Smacks of desperation.
What? Come on, give us a chance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2022, 01:19:47 PM
What? Come on, give us a chance.

Could be a line from a xenophobic nursery rhyme.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2022, 01:21:15 PM
I've noticed posters elsewhere who have made similar observations - seems the penny is beginning to drop.

Someone needs to have a look at Cristovao as well.  I believe he is currently in prison for several crimes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2022, 01:23:06 PM
So you think she admitted it just to get out of prison? Despite being convicted and having admitted her role?
Davel's Razor strikes again - the most illogical explanation must be the right one, right, right?

Parole.. I don't think she did admit.... Seems you can't follow my advance thought process
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 18, 2022, 01:28:20 PM
Parole.. I don't think she did admit.... Seems you can't follow my advance thought process
So advanced you can't even spell it. Megamind, springs to mind. Mind.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2022, 01:28:43 PM
Someone needs to have a look at Cristovao as well.  I believe he is currently in prison for several crimes.

We've got a short thread devoted to him.  I think he is a thug and a very dangerous one at that. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6218.msg223684#msg223684
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2022, 01:31:30 PM
Someone needs to have a look at Cristovao as well.  I believe he is currently in prison for several crimes.

I wonder why Wolters can't see the obvious organised abduction conspiracy involving Cristovao, Amaral & Brueckner?

He's been investigating for 4 years.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 18, 2022, 01:33:23 PM
We've got a short thread devoted to him.  I think he is a thug and a very dangerous one at that. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6218.msg223684#msg223684
Police force recruits corrupt employee.
Every police force in history.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2022, 01:40:49 PM
So advanced you can't even spell it. Megamind, springs to mind. Mind.

Resorting to commenting on typos.

I'm sure you have heard of prisoners in UK prisons who profess their innocence.. They could walk out tomorrow on parole but they would need to admit to a crime they didn't commit.
Afaiaa.. The only time Cipriano confessed was when she was beaten. Its a pity her lawyers did not make an application to the ECHR
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 18, 2022, 01:42:45 PM
Police force recruits corrupt employee.
Every police force in history.


Hmmm, how are the MET portrayed in the Daniel Morgan case,

The Metropolitan Police was institutionally corrupt in the way it concealed or denied its failings over the unsolved murder of Daniel Morgan, a report has found.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 18, 2022, 01:44:54 PM
Police force recruits corrupt employee.
Every police force in history.
Yes, correct and that is why we shouldn't unquestioningly accept that investigations are conducted competently and without corruption, especially in cases in which the police involved  are proven to have broken the law.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2022, 01:50:37 PM

Hmmm, how are the MET portrayed in the Daniel Morgan case,

The Metropolitan Police was institutionally corrupt in the way it concealed or denied its failings over the unsolved murder of Daniel Morgan, a report has found.

This is getting so predictably tiresome.

AMARAL and CRISTOVAO played a huge role in Madeleine's case and the traducing of her parents.  That is the relevant issue on a McCANN board.
So unless the police corruption you dredge up to deflect from those two criminals has anything to do with Madeleine's case they are pathetically Off Topic and will be treated as such.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2022, 01:54:23 PM
Police force recruits corrupt employee.
Every police force in history.

That may be so - but the particular one we are discussing on this thread is the Portuguese one and the role of GONCALO AMARAL within it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 18, 2022, 02:50:05 PM
That may be so - but the particular one we are discussing on this thread is the Portuguese one and the role of GONCALO AMARAL within it.

Are you saying me discussing police corruption is now magically off topic, despite it being bang on topic?
Why would that be?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 18, 2022, 03:05:40 PM
Are you saying me discussing police corruption is now magically off topic, despite it being bang on topic?
Why would that be?
All police forces are blighted corruption, incompetence and dishonesty, some more than others.  If you accept this, then this also applies in the McCann case and the Cipriano case, plenty of evidence of it in both cases. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2022, 03:05:47 PM
Resorting to commenting on typos.

I'm sure you have heard of prisoners in UK prisons who profess their innocence.. They could walk out tomorrow on parole but they would need to admit to a crime they didn't commit.
Afaiaa.. The only time Cipriano confessed was when she was beaten. Its a pity her lawyers did not make an application to the ECHR

Leonor had a very bad Lawyer.  Although I can't remember his name now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 18, 2022, 03:19:29 PM
All police forces are blighted corruption, incompetence and dishonesty, some more than others.  If you accept this, then this also applies in the McCann case and the Cipriano case, plenty of evidence of it in both cases.
Scotland Yard aren't quite as bad as you're making out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2022, 06:18:21 PM
Leonor had a very bad Lawyer.  Although I can't remember his name now.

Me too.

Was that the guy who was compromised by allegedly being caught trying to bring drugs into a prison (remarkedly he wasn't charged or prosecuted with the offense) then he abandoned Leonor on the eve of her trial then became best mates with Amaral with the intention of training him as a lawyer?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2022, 06:23:52 PM
Me too.

Was that the guy who was compromised by allegedly being caught trying to bring drugs into a prison (remarkedly he wasn't charged or prosecuted with the offense) then he abandoned Leonor on the eve of her trial then became best mates with Amaral with the intention of training him as a lawyer?

That's him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 18, 2022, 07:31:42 PM
Me too.

Was that the guy who was compromised by allegedly being caught trying to bring drugs into a prison (remarkedly he wasn't charged or prosecuted with the offense) then he abandoned Leonor on the eve of her trial then became best mates with Amaral with the intention of training him as a lawyer?

He handed in a bag belonging to his client. Either he didn't know it contained drugs or he didn't know that prisons tend to search items handed in for prisoners. I think he probably knew full well that searches would be carried out,
so it's very unlikely that he knew about the drugs.

I think Leonor sacked him didn't she?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2022, 08:20:33 PM
He handed in a bag belonging to his client. Either he didn't know it contained drugs or he didn't know that prisons tend to search items handed in for prisoners. I think he probably knew full well that searches would be carried out,
so it's very unlikely that he knew about the drugs.

I think Leonor sacked him didn't she?

Hmmm - whatever his name which I see you too have forgotten - rather naïve of him to attempt to pass a "prisoner's" bag to him through a prison reception area then finding to his dismay it contained contraband.

A likely tale.

Almost as unlikely as him not ending up sharing a cell with said prisoner ~ serious business smuggling drugs into a prison particularly if vigilant duty guards wouldn't think of passing bags to inmates without checking them first.

I don't think he was sacked.  I think he jumped ship after his denouement leaving his client in the lurch .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2022, 08:27:24 PM
That's him.

His name was here all the time

Leonor lawyer, João Grade, caught taking drugs into woman's prison.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3500.msg126862#msg126862
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 19, 2022, 10:38:53 AM
Hmmm - whatever his name which I see you too have forgotten - rather naïve of him to attempt to pass a "prisoner's" bag to him through a prison reception area then finding to his dismay it contained contraband.

A likely tale.

Almost as unlikely as him not ending up sharing a cell with said prisoner ~ serious business smuggling drugs into a prison particularly if vigilant duty guards wouldn't think of passing bags to inmates without checking them first.

I don't think he was sacked.  I think he jumped ship after his denouement leaving his client in the lurch .
93.1%* of all drugs in prisons are smuggled in by guards.

*percentages vary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 19, 2022, 11:01:41 AM
Hmmm - whatever his name which I see you too have forgotten - rather naïve of him to attempt to pass a "prisoner's" bag to him through a prison reception area then finding to his dismay it contained contraband.

A likely tale.

Almost as unlikely as him not ending up sharing a cell with said prisoner ~ serious business smuggling drugs into a prison particularly if vigilant duty guards wouldn't think of passing bags to inmates without checking them first.

I don't think he was sacked.  I think he jumped ship after his denouement leaving his client in the lurch .
Inthink the conclusion of this particular debacle was that it was (more) police incompetence which led to the drugs being  found on the lawyer - ie they didn’t check the bag properly before handing it to the lawyer.   I can imagine him adopting the Boris defence though: “nobody told me there were drugs in the bag”.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 19, 2022, 11:07:54 AM
Hmmm - whatever his name which I see you too have forgotten - rather naïve of him to attempt to pass a "prisoner's" bag to him through a prison reception area then finding to his dismay it contained contraband.

A likely tale.

Almost as unlikely as him not ending up sharing a cell with said prisoner ~ serious business smuggling drugs into a prison particularly if vigilant duty guards wouldn't think of passing bags to inmates without checking them first.

I don't think he was sacked.  I think he jumped ship after his denouement leaving his client in the lurch .

As this man was never prosecuted and seemed to continue in his profession it seems to me that he could have been telling the truth.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 19, 2022, 06:31:23 PM
As this man was never prosecuted and seemed to continue in his profession it seems to me that he could have been telling the truth.

Indeed he could. 

But a very strange tale nonetheless.

Did you read and digest anything from the forum thread I linked to.

It was only two pages long but within it was pertinent information.

His foreign client's abode was turned over and he was asked to pick up a bag and take it to her in prison.

How remiss of him and how remiss of the police not to check and notice the drug haul contained within.

Fortunately someone was on the ball and it was intercepted at the prison reception.

Obviously attempting to smuggle a consignment of drugs into a prison doesn't feature too highly in the Portuguese Penal Code.

Funny isn't it how selective sceptics are when it comes to who and what benefits from their doubts 😁
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 20, 2022, 12:12:01 PM


Since all the posts with the context have disappeared I'll explain again.

This drug haul you speak of were soft drugs of low value, in a country that has decriminalised soft drugs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on January 20, 2022, 07:13:52 PM

Since all the posts with the context have disappeared I'll explain again.

This drug haul you speak of were soft drugs of low value, in a country that has decriminalised soft drugs.
Surely it's still illegal to try to smuggle even small quantities into prisons in Portugal as I understood the law only allows possession of soft drugs solely for personal use? Christian P wouldn't even agree to smuggle vodka-laced oranges to Brueckner in jail.
In UK, of course, you could face a jail sentence of up to 10 years for this same type of crime.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 20, 2022, 08:03:08 PM
Surely it's still illegal to try to smuggle even small quantities into prisons in Portugal as I understood the law only allows possession of soft drugs solely for personal use? Christian P wouldn't even agree to smuggle vodka-laced oranges to Brueckner in jail.
In UK, of course, you could face a jail sentence of up to 10 years for this same type of crime.

The lawyer denies knowledge of possession.

So, it would have to go to trial wouldn't it.

The state would need to prove beyond reasonable doubt he knew the drugs were there & intended to supply them.

Days, possibly weeks, months even of police investigation time & legal process, at an expense considerably greater than the value of the soft drugs involved, with conviction an unlikely result.

Not really worth it.

Might not happen that way in this country, but it's up to the state of Portugal how they manage things there, & xenophobic arrogance to believe any different.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on January 21, 2022, 02:14:23 AM
The lawyer denies knowledge of possession.

So, it would have to go to trial wouldn't it.

The state would need to prove beyond reasonable doubt he knew the drugs were there & intended to supply them.

Days, possibly weeks, months even of police investigation time & legal process, at an expense considerably greater than the value of the soft drugs involved, with conviction an unlikely result.

Not really worth it.

Might not happen that way in this country, but it's up to the state of Portugal how they manage things there, & xenophobic arrogance to believe any different.

Strange that it happened just before Leonors trial, doncha think.  That left her in the lurch, dontcha think

Strange that the guards shoud open up a Lawyers bag to check him out; not at all the usual practise I would have thought.


You don't think that maybe he was set up?  Only my querying mind at work again.

Now who was the drugs inspector/lead in the Algarve ?   Why didn't he prosecute him, lawyers should be setting an example
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 21, 2022, 05:40:21 AM
 McCann/Cipriano supporter world.
Where a lawyer who unwittingly possesses a small quantity of soft drugs gets prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, whilst an evil pair of s..mbags who murdered an 8 year old get to walk free.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 21, 2022, 08:43:23 AM
McCann/Cipriano supporter world.
Where a lawyer who unwittingly possesses a small quantity of soft drugs gets prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, whilst an evil pair of s..mbags who murdered an 8 year old get to walk free.

You are more to be pitied than blamed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 21, 2022, 09:14:49 AM
You are more to be pitied than blamed
One of the many things Jaoa and Leonor never said to Joana.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 21, 2022, 09:34:53 AM
You are more to be pitied than blamed
He is more to be ignored than fed I think you meant to say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 21, 2022, 09:41:07 AM
One of the many things Jaoa and Leonor never said to Joana.

You don't have a clue about their relationship... Just the claims of a bunch of convicted liars who were the police investigating
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 21, 2022, 09:49:18 AM
You don't have a clue about their relationship... Just the claims of a bunch of convicted liars who were the police investigating
You don't have a clue about 'who were the police', whatever that means.
You're casting doubt on 1000's of convictions in the region in the years preceding and after. Or just this one, which conveniently fits your narrative? Is this the only one someone else found for you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 21, 2022, 09:49:33 AM
You don't have a clue about their relationship... Just the claims of a bunch of convicted liars who were the police investigating

We feel your pain.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 21, 2022, 10:00:38 AM
We feel your pain.

strange...i dont have any
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 21, 2022, 10:03:37 AM
strange...i dont have any
Attracta Harron.
How about now?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 21, 2022, 10:30:07 AM
Attracta Harron.
How about now?

nope...it all fits in with my conclusions. Eddie located the remains of attracta harron...thats the only VICTIM....the VICTIM recovery dog found in 5 years. By any standards thats patheteic. So Harrison and Grime came up with the idea of using just the alerts as intelligence..Grime decided he could make a lucrtaive business out of it...not opinion..fact...all documented
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 21, 2022, 10:36:30 AM
nope...it all fits in with my conclusions. Eddie located the remains of attracta harron...thats the only VICTIM....the VICTIM recovery dog found in 5 years. By any standards thats patheteic. So Harrison and Grime came up with the idea of using just the alerts as intelligence..Grime decided he could make a lucrtaive business out of it...not opinion..fact...all documented
Eddie did better than that. He located the makeshift grave where she was temporarily moved to.
He also alerted to the car mat - the car that was torched.
He also paved the way for your weak protestations to be rendered meaningless, simply by being a good boi.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 21, 2022, 10:47:19 AM
Eddie did better than that. He located the makeshift grave where she was temporarily moved to.
He also alerted to the car mat - the car that was torched.
He also paved the way for your weak protestations to be rendered meaningless, simply by being a good boi.

You arent really understanding the alerts and their significance. The only reliable cadaver dog is one trained solely on human remains...do you know where taht comes from. Your ignorance is overwhelming. I notice you cannot counter any of the facts i posted. If Eddie is reliable maddies body was in the car...case solved
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 21, 2022, 10:54:02 AM
You arent really understanding the alerts and their significance. The only reliable cadaver dog is one trained solely on human remains...do you know where taht comes from. Your ignorance is overwhelming. I notice you cannot counter any of the facts i posted. If Eddie is reliable maddies body was in the car...case solved

We have all known about Eddie for a very long time.  Not Eddie's fault.  Martin Grime tried to teach Eddie too many new tricks.  This was disingenuous to say the very least and made the alerts meaningless.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 21, 2022, 10:59:35 AM
You arent really understanding the alerts and their significance. The only reliable cadaver dog is one trained solely on human remains...do you know where taht comes from. Your ignorance is overwhelming. I notice you cannot counter any of the facts i posted. If Eddie is reliable maddies body was in the car...case solved


So it's a coincidence that he alerted to the confirmed makeshift grave? Or the makeshift grave also contained vestiges of piglet cadaverine?
What's the chances.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 21, 2022, 11:34:34 AM

So it's a coincidence that he alerted to the confirmed makeshift grave? Or the makeshift grave also contained vestiges of piglet cadaverine?
What's the chances.

You don't understand.. If there's a body hw will find it.. He's a victim recovery dog. That doesn't mean every time he barks cadaver odour is present
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 24, 2022, 07:11:11 AM
You don't understand.. If there's a body hw will find it.. He's a victim recovery dog. That doesn't mean every time he barks cadaver odour is present
No, you clearly don't understand, or are being deliberately obtuse - no, it's definitely the former; in the example I provided, over and above the three you keep on a constant loop, he didn't find the body, he found where the body had been briefly secreted.
Jenga!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 24, 2022, 08:52:27 AM
No, you clearly don't understand, or are being deliberately obtuse - no, it's definitely the former; in the example I provided, over and above the three you keep on a constant loop, he didn't find the body, he found where the body had been briefly secreted.
Jenga!

He had found one body in 5 years. Fact
Thats why Grime thought he needed another job.. Opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 24, 2022, 08:55:42 AM

Poor Eddie.  The subject of human failings.  Although I don't suppose he knew.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 24, 2022, 09:08:55 AM
Poor Eddie.  The subject of human failings.  Although I don't suppose he knew.

Poor Madeleine, still being subjected to human failings.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 24, 2022, 09:16:53 AM
Poor Madeleine, still being subjected to human failings.

Ah, but those of whom?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on January 24, 2022, 09:21:53 AM
Ah, but those of whom?
Kate and Gerry.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 24, 2022, 10:28:34 AM
Ah, but those of whom?


Starter for 10.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on January 27, 2022, 03:39:36 PM
You don't understand.. If there's a body hw will find it.. He's a victim recovery dog. That doesn't mean every time he barks cadaver odour is present

There COULD have been elements of "cadaver" odour present, but there are hundreds of components (many of which, in small combinations, may trigger a totally irrelevant alert ). The odour of decomposiiton is everywhere, although unless in work mode, he wouldn't necessarily have been attentive. Smelly socks, bad breath, babies' nappies... were any of those possibilites ever ruled out? True for him, but totally irrelevant to the investigation.

And I still find it incredible that nearly 15 years later the Dogwin* principle still applies.

*Apologies to Godwin.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 27, 2022, 04:42:14 PM
There COULD have been elements of "cadaver" odour present, but there are hundreds of components (many of which, in small combinations, may trigger a totally irrelevant alert ). The odour of decomposiiton is everywhere, although unless in work mode, he wouldn't necessarily have been attentive. Smelly socks, bad breath, babies' nappies... were any of those possibilites ever ruled out? True for him, but totally irrelevant to the investigation.

And I still find it incredible that nearly 15 years later the Dogwin* principle still applies.

*Apologies to Godwin.

The point is that by using the word cadaver odour it's natural for people to.. Believe... Grime is referring to the odour FROM a dead body... Not smelly socks. That's a point I think Grime should have explained more clearly, but that would not have helped his business plans.
Then we have the fact the dogs only alerted to things mccann. That's why I say Grime has a lot of explaining to do if it's shown maddie did not die in the apartment
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 27, 2022, 04:57:29 PM
There COULD have been elements of "cadaver" odour present, but there are hundreds of components (many of which, in small combinations, may trigger a totally irrelevant alert ). The odour of decomposiiton is everywhere, although unless in work mode, he wouldn't necessarily have been attentive. Smelly socks, bad breath, babies' nappies... were any of those possibilites ever ruled out? True for him, but totally irrelevant to the investigation.

And I still find it incredible that nearly 15 years later the Dogwin* principle still applies.

*Apologies to Godwin.

We watched the dog prior to his entry to the apartment as he pulled his handler along the outside pathway behind the wall..

He did not sit and wait to be told when he had clocked on for the start of his shift and was in work mode.   He was far too excited to do that.  He was right in there.  A cadaver dog who couldn't differentiate between when he was on the job and when he wasn't.

Something set Eddie off before he had even entered the apartment - that was obvious.  Fifteen years later there are still numpties around who haven't thought about the implications of that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on January 27, 2022, 07:24:48 PM
The point is that by using the word cadaver odour it's natural for people to.. Believe... Grime is referring to the odour FROM a dead body... Not smelly socks. That's a point I think Grime should have explained more clearly, but that would not have helped his business plans.
Then we have the fact the dogs only alerted to things mccann. That's why I say Grime has a lot of explaining to do if it's shown maddie did not die in the apartment

If he had kept to the "odour of decomposition" as apposed to "cadaver", I wouldn't have a problem.

It seems that the dogs didn't alert elsewhere, ok. But did they alert (e.g. in front of a bathroom bin in other apartments) but were deemed irrelevant?  cf sex tissues / Jersey.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 27, 2022, 07:30:59 PM
There COULD have been elements of "cadaver" odour present, but there are hundreds of components (many of which, in small combinations, may trigger a totally irrelevant alert ). The odour of decomposiiton is everywhere, although unless in work mode, he wouldn't necessarily have been attentive. Smelly socks, bad breath, babies' nappies... were any of those possibilites ever ruled out? True for him, but totally irrelevant to the investigation.

And I still find it incredible that nearly 15 years later the Dogwin* principle still applies.

*Apologies to Godwin.

I don't think cadaver dogs alert to smelly socks, bad breath or babies' nappies, do they?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 27, 2022, 07:31:34 PM
If he had kept to the "odour of decomposition" as apposed to "cadaver", I wouldn't have a problem.

It seems that the dogs didn't alert elsewhere, ok. But did they alert (e.g. in front of a bathroom bin in other apartments) but were deemed irrelevant?  cf sex tissues / Jersey.

I was surprised to read in the BDO report that having alerted to the spot where the coconut was found in Jersey it was moved to another location... Where Eddie alerted again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 27, 2022, 07:33:52 PM
I don't think cadaver dogs alert to smelly socks, bad breath or babies' nappies, do they?

I think it's quite possible they do... But they never seem to have been tested. It seems they are only tested on contaminated vs clean pad. That's poor testing from a scientific and evidential point of view
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 27, 2022, 07:36:32 PM
Cadaverine is a toxic diamine usually produced by protein hydrolysis during putrefaction of animal tissue. Cadaverine is also known as 1,5-pentanediamine and pentamethylenediamine, and represents one of the substances possibly implicated in establishing halitosis
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 27, 2022, 07:38:51 PM
I think it's quite possible they do... But they never seem to have been tested. It seems they are only tested on contaminated vs clean pad. That's poor testing from a scientific and evidential point of view

It's just a rumour then. Thank you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on January 27, 2022, 08:08:06 PM
It's just a rumour then. Thank you.

Not a rumour at all. Scientific studies are published. There are no published papers on any study involving other sources... And it's obvious why
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 01, 2022, 09:58:36 AM
26 August 2021

Amaral dismisses Brueckner's involvement in Maddie's disappearance

This is a thesis defended by Gonçalo since the beginning of the investigation and now comes to say that Christian Brueckner "has nothing to do with maddie's disappearance".

"In the early hours, even before we distrusted the parents, we received a list of pedophiles who lived in the area and Brueckner was on that list.

But how did someone break into the apartment without leaving fingerprints or other evidence," the former inspector questioned.

During the interview, Amaral also said that the investigation should have been more complete and that "it was a mistake" not to consider the hypothesis of murder, but "the superiors wanted us to approach the case as if something had been missing."


 Leia mais em: https://www.novagente.pt/maddie-goncalo-amaral-diz-que-sequestro-foi-simulado-pelos-pais


Amaral seems determined on insisting that Brueckner was eliminated from the inquiry early days and while on his watch as as coordinator.

I fail to see why - even if Brueckner had been interviewed ??? back then Amaral is so insistent on his innocence. 

At that time although unsuspected, he was already guilty of the horrific rape for which he was later convicted and further intelligence and some paedophile convictions were not known about in 2007 because they had not yet happened, but we know about them now.

Yet Amaral is still defending Brueckner on the basis that he was allowed to slip through the PJ investigation which Amaral coordinated back in the day.

All I can say is that those who have interviewed Amaral over the years have done so in a demonstrably anodyne fashion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 01, 2022, 10:02:26 AM
26 August 2021

Amaral dismisses Brueckner's involvement in Maddie's disappearance

This is a thesis defended by Gonçalo since the beginning of the investigation and now comes to say that Christian Brueckner "has nothing to do with maddie's disappearance".

"In the early hours, even before we distrusted the parents, we received a list of pedophiles who lived in the area and Brueckner was on that list.

But how did someone break into the apartment without leaving fingerprints or other evidence," the former inspector questioned.

During the interview, Amaral also said that the investigation should have been more complete and that "it was a mistake" not to consider the hypothesis of murder, but "the superiors wanted us to approach the case as if something had been missing."


 Leia mais em: https://www.novagente.pt/maddie-goncalo-amaral-diz-que-sequestro-foi-simulado-pelos-pais


Amaral seems determined on insisting that Brueckner was eliminated from the inquiry early days and while on his watch as as coordinator.

I fail to see why - even if Brueckner had been interviewed ??? back then Amaral is so insistent on his innocence. 

At that time although unsuspected, he was already guilty of the horrific rape for which he was later convicted and further intelligence and some paedophile convictions were not known about in 2007 because they had not yet happened, but we know about them now.

Yet Amaral is still defending Brueckner on the basis that he was allowed to slip through the PJ investigation which Amaral coordinated back in the day.

All I can say is that those who have interviewed Amaral over the years have done so in a demonstrably anodyne fashion.

As have the McCanns.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 01, 2022, 10:07:52 AM
As have the McCanns.
As have the McCanns what?  They have faced some tough interrogators over the years (Paxman for example and let's not forget Sandra F, whose interview was considered quite heroic in some quarters - until recently).  Why has no one asked Amaral to explain why he made up false information about Bruckner?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 01, 2022, 10:10:53 AM
As have the McCanns.

You are wrong.

And just two instances illustrate exactly how wrong you are.

Kate and Gerry were asked if they had killed Madeleine at a press conference.

I recall the 'ask the dogs' interview which turned Sandra Felgueiras into a bit of a sceptic icon for a time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 01, 2022, 01:18:57 PM
It is quite often said of Amaral that the conduct of Madeleine's case had nothing to do with him.  Seems a big boy dunnit and ran away.

Amaral obviously doesn't know that as he claims full credit in 2008.

What relationship did you have with the Martimonio McCann?

I was the head of the investigation department of the case in the Judicial Police in Portimao.

I was in charge of ordering all the investigative work and making sure I followed their course, so I have been once or twice with the marriage, and also with all the witnesses and with the inspectors who worked on the case.

I don't want to argue publicly with the McCanns, they've lost a daughter. I am not interested in myself or the parents, here the only victim is the girl.


https://www.hola.com/actualidad/20080911656/entrevista/goncalo/amaral/


Actually - reading that paragraph would indicate that he is indeed a stranger to the truth - as anyone knowing anything of the case will spot.
So maybe his support have got it right - despite the fact he contradicts them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 01, 2022, 06:25:47 PM
It is quite often said of Amaral that the conduct of Madeleine's case had nothing to do with him.  Seems a big boy dunnit and ran away.

Amaral obviously doesn't know that as he claims full credit in 2008.

What relationship did you have with the Martimonio McCann?

I was the head of the investigation department of the case in the Judicial Police in Portimao.

I was in charge of ordering all the investigative work and making sure I followed their course, so I have been once or twice with the marriage, and also with all the witnesses and with the inspectors who worked on the case.

I don't want to argue publicly with the McCanns, they've lost a daughter. I am not interested in myself or the parents, here the only victim is the girl.


https://www.hola.com/actualidad/20080911656/entrevista/goncalo/amaral/


Actually - reading that paragraph would indicate that he is indeed a stranger to the truth - as anyone knowing anything of the case will spot.
So maybe his support have got it right - despite the fact he contradicts them.

Amaral's job was Coordinator, which, imo, means directing the team of investigators, not necessarily deciding what they should investgate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 01, 2022, 06:33:40 PM
Amaral's job was Coordinator, which, imo, means directing the team of investigators, not necessarily deciding what they should investgate.
So if his seniors had told him it was a stranger abduction he would not have investigated the parents and discarded any evidence that pointed to their involvement?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 01, 2022, 07:56:10 PM
Amaral's job was Coordinator, which, imo, means directing the team of investigators, not necessarily deciding what they should investgate.

I rather think your opinion is at variance with Amaral's account of his role in the investigation.

Amaral claims
"I was the head of the investigation department  ..." 

Amaral claims
"I was in charge of ordering all the investigative work ..."

How do you account for that - lost in translation, perhaps?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 01, 2022, 08:40:57 PM
I rather think your opinion is at variance with Amaral's account of his role in the investigation.

Amaral claims
"I was the head of the investigation department  ..." 

Amaral claims
"I was in charge of ordering all the investigative work ..."

How do you account for that - lost in translation, perhaps?

Amaral had superiors; Encarnacao and Neves. Had there been disagreement about the direction of the investigation their opinions would have dominated. They were all in agreement though. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 01, 2022, 08:47:03 PM
Amaral had superiors; Encarnacao and Neves. Had there been disagreement about the direction of the investigation their opinions would have dominated. They were all in agreement though.
Yes.. They all misunderstood the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 01, 2022, 09:01:33 PM
Amaral had superiors; Encarnacao and Neves. Had there been disagreement about the direction of the investigation their opinions would have dominated. They were all in agreement though.

Amaral never once attributed interference with his investigation to Encarnacao and Neves - unless you can provide evidence to the differ.

Amaral had plenty to say about interference from almost everyone else in the Western hemisphere - wonder why he didn't say a choockie bird about Encarnacao and Neves.
Wonder if you are wrong again and they left him very much to his own devices.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 01, 2022, 10:56:09 PM
Amaral had superiors; Encarnacao and Neves. Had there been disagreement about the direction of the investigation their opinions would have dominated. They were all in agreement though.
Everyone in the police has superiors right up to the very top, are you suggesting that no one below the rank of Toppermost Cop is able to decide for themselves on the direction of an investigation?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 01, 2022, 11:48:07 PM


But how did someone break into the apartment without leaving fingerprints or other evidence," the former inspector questioned.


Ah, the sceptics lord and truthmaster, Mister Amaral. A man who seemingly cannot figure out how someone can break in through an unlocked sliding door. And who has apparently yet to discover in all his years of police work, that people who deliberately break into places tend to wear gloves. Quite what he means by "other evidence" we can only wonder. Perhaps he was hoping for some giant muddy footprints, some body fluids randomly sprayed about the place or perhaps the intruder's wallet fallen out of his pocket.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 07:03:13 AM
Amaral never once attributed interference with his investigation to Encarnacao and Neves - unless you can provide evidence to the differ.

Amaral had plenty to say about interference from almost everyone else in the Western hemisphere - wonder why he didn't say a choockie bird about Encarnacao and Neves.
Wonder if you are wrong again and they left him very much to his own devices.

It was Encarnacao who suggested that Madeleine fell from the back of the couch under the window, and he and Neves who, Kate alleges, subjected the McCanns to an off the record accusatory interview on 8th August 2007. Imo they were completely involved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 02, 2022, 07:18:38 AM
Ah, the sceptics lord and truthmaster, Mister Amaral. A man who seemingly cannot figure out how someone can break in through an unlocked sliding door. And who has apparently yet to discover in all his years of police work, that people who deliberately break into places tend to wear gloves. Quite what he means by "other evidence" we can only wonder. Perhaps he was hoping for some giant muddy footprints, some body fluids randomly sprayed about the place or perhaps the intruder's wallet fallen out of his pocket.
By this reasoning Herr B planned this meticulously - and the plan was executed perfectly.
He knew the sliding door was open and had planned exactly which child to snatch.
He disturbed nothing, including the twins, and was able to get in, take MM, and get out in between parental / friend monitoring. Nothing elaborate in the actual act, save for the planning perhaps, but you have to marvel at his timing.
Moreover, despite several associates latterly having misgivings and a global appeal for information, he almost executed the perfect crime, this hapless recidivist, this perennial partially successful offender.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 02, 2022, 07:29:00 AM
It was Encarnacao who suggested that Madeleine fell from the back of the couch under the window, and he and Neves who, Kate alleges, subjected the McCanns to an off the record accusatory interview on 8th August 2007. Imo they were completely involved.
The PJ thought the dogs were infallible. Never been wrong in 200 cases. No false positives ever. If that was true then Maddie died in the apartment and the McCanns were involved... But it wasn't true... It was total BS. The PJ believed total BS
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 07:34:42 AM
Ah, the sceptics lord and truthmaster, Mister Amaral. A man who seemingly cannot figure out how someone can break in through an unlocked sliding door. And who has apparently yet to discover in all his years of police work, that people who deliberately break into places tend to wear gloves. Quite what he means by "other evidence" we can only wonder. Perhaps he was hoping for some giant muddy footprints, some body fluids randomly sprayed about the place or perhaps the intruder's wallet fallen out of his pocket.
One has to question whether, if the abductor had left footprints, body fluids or a business card, the police and their forensic team were actually up to the job of actually discovering it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 07:55:50 AM
Everyone in the police has superiors right up to the very top, are you suggesting that no one below the rank of Toppermost Cop is able to decide for themselves on the direction of an investigation?

Those running an investigation decide on it's direction. Changing that direction is unlikely to happen without their agreement.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 08:06:29 AM
Those running an investigation decide on it's direction. Changing that direction is unlikely to happen without their agreement.
I thought police were supposed to be open-minded and led by the evidence, not set a course determined by their superiors and stick to it rigidly without argument.  But, hey what do I know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 08:10:43 AM
Ah, the sceptics lord and truthmaster, Mister Amaral. A man who seemingly cannot figure out how someone can break in through an unlocked sliding door. And who has apparently yet to discover in all his years of police work, that people who deliberately break into places tend to wear gloves. Quite what he means by "other evidence" we can only wonder. Perhaps he was hoping for some giant muddy footprints, some body fluids randomly sprayed about the place or perhaps the intruder's wallet fallen out of his pocket.

Perhaps Amaral was responding to the suggestion by Madeleine's parents that an abductor chose to ignore the unlocked door and decided to raise some shutters on the off chance that the window behind it was also unlocked? It was also achieved without leaving any evidence behind; except that seen by the two of them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 08:20:57 AM
I thought police were supposed to be open-minded and led by the evidence, not set a course determined by their superiors and stick to it rigidly without argument.  But, hey what do I know.

Evidence may lead to a change of direction, but not without those in charge knowing and agreeing. Can you imagine the mess if they thought their team was investigating a missing person case when the team had actually decided to investigate a murder but didn't bother telling their superiors?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 08:42:39 AM
Evidence may lead to a change of direction, but not without those in charge knowing and agreeing. Can you imagine the mess if they thought their team was investigating a missing person case when the team had actually decided to investigate a murder but didn't bother telling their superiors?
Where did I suggest that there would be no vertical communication at all?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 08:56:41 AM
By this reasoning Herr B planned this meticulously - and the plan was executed perfectly.
He knew the sliding door was open and had planned exactly which child to snatch.
He disturbed nothing, including the twins, and was able to get in, take MM, and get out in between parental / friend monitoring. Nothing elaborate in the actual act, save for the planning perhaps, but you have to marvel at his timing.
Moreover, despite several associates latterly having misgivings and a global appeal for information, he almost executed the perfect crime, this hapless recidivist, this perennial partially successful offender.

Not necessarily. You can never underestimate the power of sheer dumb luck. Ultimately, if CB went in there initially with the intent to burgle (before something else happened and changed the course of events), he would likely have been suitably prepped to avoid leaving traces anyway. Gloves, hat etc. How many burglaries did he get caught for in Portugal? And there's no reason to believe he would have needed to disturb anything.

I wouldn't discount that he could have planned it out properly either though. Look at the rape of the 72 year old. How did he enter her home? An unlocked patio door. Already all dressed up in kit intended to avoid identification or leave forensics traces. That was pretty well planned out, he evaded capture for 14 years, even though PJ HAD found a forensic trace he left behind. And I know it's probably a bit premature to cite him as being responsible for the Hazel B attack, but that too showed an element of pre-planning. Again entering through an unlocked sliding door. She states the intruder knew her name and says that someone had already been in her apartment a few days beforehand as money was missing and things moved around. If reports that his fingerprint has been found there are true, you really do have to start questioning how competent the PJ really are. It might be less a case of CB executing the "perfect crime", and more a case of PJ executing another poor investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 02, 2022, 09:04:07 AM
Not necessarily. You can never underestimate the power of sheer dumb luck. Ultimately, if CB went in there initially with the intent to burgle (before something else happened and changed the course of events), he would likely have been suitably prepped to avoid leaving traces anyway. Gloves, hat etc. How many burglaries did he get caught for in Portugal? And there's no reason to believe he would have needed to disturb anything.

I wouldn't discount that he could have planned it out properly either though. Look at the rape of the 72 year old. How did he enter her home? An unlocked patio door. Already all dressed up in kit intended to avoid identification or leave forensics traces. That was pretty well planned out, he evaded capture for 14 years, even though PJ HAD found a forensic trace he left behind. And I know it's probably a bit premature to cite him as being responsible for the Hazel B attack, but that too showed an element of pre-planning. Again entering through an unlocked sliding door. She states the intruder knew her name and says that someone had already been in her apartment a few days beforehand as money was missing and things moved around. If reports that his fingerprint has been found there are true, you really do have to start questioning how competent the PJ really are. It might be less a case of CB executing the "perfect crime", and more a case of PJ executing another poor investigation.

Yet the BKA who interviewed CB in 2013 found nothing suspicious, still you know its quiet when the go to Amaral thread is the most posted on at the mo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 09:25:52 AM
Yet the BKA who interviewed CB in 2013 found nothing suspicious, still you know its quiet when the go to Amaral thread is the most posted on at the mo.
If they found nothing suspicious on CB, why is he now their prime suspect?  Interviews don’t tend to turn up forensic evidence anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 02, 2022, 09:35:07 AM
Yet the BKA who interviewed CB in 2013 found nothing suspicious, still you know its quiet when the go to Amaral thread is the most posted on at the mo.

Crime on Portugal.. Investigation by UK.. Questioned by Germany... The dots had not been joined at that stage
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 09:48:55 AM
Perhaps Amaral was responding to the suggestion by Madeleine's parents that an abductor chose to ignore the unlocked door and decided to raise some shutters on the off chance that the window behind it was also unlocked? It was also achieved without leaving any evidence behind; except that seen by the two of them.

Perhaps he was, but as a police investigator, it's his job to consider that maybe the window wasn't used to enter (or exit). Not just work off the parents theory, even though it was understandable why they might have initially thought that was the entry point when faced with that scenario.

Once inside the apartment, an intruder could have left through either door, or the window without leaving traces of having done so. It is also possible to enter through the window provided it wasn't fully slid across on the latch without leaving traces. Possible to enter through the sliding patio door without leaving a trace. And if someone had access to the keys that were allegedly stolen from the OC, entry through the front door would have been easy too.

My point is, Amaral chooses to ignore all these other options and instead focusses on what the parents initially thought "might" have happened. And then discredits it by saying they found nobody else's fingerprints. The argument is a fallacy. He knows damn well that any person breaking and entering would be likely to use gloves and that there were plenty of ways to get in and out without leaving a trace.

Below is a summary of his theory using extracts from an interview he did. The holes in his argument are so glaring and easy to rip to pieces, that it's hard to take the man seriously as a police investigator. He can concoct a theory as fantastical as this but not accept that it is possible to enter and leave an unlocked apartment without leaving a trace? I think even the interviewer was left scratching her head at what they were listening to, with Amaral completely dodging every question that called the credibility of his theory into question.

The mother said that the window of the room was open when she saw that the girl was not there. That is not correct, the window was closed and is impossible that the girl left that way. 

And there are other things. The mother says that she entered in the room and that the windows were open and the shutters were raised. No one else saw that. They simulated a kidnapping.

There were no unknown fingerprints in the apartment, of course they could have used gloves, that is true, but that could not have been the case. 

The child could have fallen from a sofa, could have had an accident with Calpol

The father was talking to a friend just outside that window for a while. The girl did not have a a heavy sleep, that's what the parents said. Perhaps she heard her father and climbed to the sofa bellow the window. But the parents, for the girl not to go out, moved it away from the wall. Madeleine could have fallen.

It is the mother who finds the girl dead.

I want to recall that there is an Irish man who claimed to have seen Gerry McCann with a girl in his arms, on his way towards the beach that same night. That testimony has been hidden.

To me, Gerry hid Madeleine's body on the beach. And after a few days he moved her with his car. We work following this lead. 

For there to be vestiges in the boot of the car rented 23 days later, they must have preserved (frozen) the corpse in some way. I believe that when they put it in the boot, with the heat of those days in the Algarve,  happened a similar situation with that of the shopping bags, which melt and then the water is transferred to the car.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/goncalo-amaral-in-el-mundo-gerry-mccann-hid-m-08-0-t4122.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 09:57:43 AM
Yet the BKA who interviewed CB in 2013 found nothing suspicious, still you know its quiet when the go to Amaral thread is the most posted on at the mo.

They asked a few questions. They had no background knowledge of the case and were simply fulfilling a request from the Met to speak to him. They weren't carrying out an investigation like the PJ were.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 10:06:19 AM
Perhaps he was, but as a police investigator, it's his job to consider that maybe the window wasn't used to enter (or exit). Not just work off the parents theory, even though it was understandable why they might have initially thought that was the entry point when faced with that scenario.

Once inside the apartment, an intruder could have left through either door, or the window without leaving traces of having done so. It is also possible to enter through the window provided it wasn't fully slid across on the latch without leaving traces. Possible to enter through the sliding patio door without leaving a trace. And if someone had access to the keys that were allegedly stolen from the OC, entry through the front door would have been easy too.

My point is, Amaral chooses to ignore all these other options and instead focusses on what the parents initially thought "might" have happened. And then discredits it by saying they found nobody else's fingerprints. The argument is a fallacy. He knows damn well that any person breaking and entering would be likely to use gloves and that there were plenty of ways to get in and out without leaving a trace.

Below is a summary of his theory using extracts from an interview he did. The holes in his argument are so glaring and easy to rip to pieces, that it's hard to take the man seriously as a police investigator. He can concoct a theory as fantastical as this but not accept that it is possible to enter and leave an unlocked apartment without leaving a trace? I think even the interviewer was left scratching her head at what they were listening to, with Amaral completely dodging every question that called the credibility of his theory into question.

The mother said that the window of the room was open when she saw that the girl was not there. That is not correct, the window was closed and is impossible that the girl left that way.

And there are other things. The mother says that she entered in the room and that the windows were open and the shutters were raised. No one else saw that. They simulated a kidnapping.

There were no unknown fingerprints in the apartment, of course they could have used gloves, that is true, but that could not have been the case.

The child could have fallen from a sofa, could have had an accident with Calpol

The father was talking to a friend just outside that window for a while. The girl did not have a a heavy sleep, that's what the parents said. Perhaps she heard her father and climbed to the sofa bellow the window. But the parents, for the girl not to go out, moved it away from the wall. Madeleine could have fallen.

It is the mother who finds the girl dead.

I want to recall that there is an Irish man who claimed to have seen Gerry McCann with a girl in his arms, on his way towards the beach that same night. That testimony has been hidden.

To me, Gerry hid Madeleine's body on the beach. And after a few days he moved her with his car. We work following this lead.

For there to be vestiges in the boot of the car rented 23 days later, they must have preserved (frozen) the corpse in some way. I believe that when they put it in the boot, with the heat of those days in the Algarve,  happened a similar situation with that of the shopping bags, which melt and then the water is transferred to the car.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/goncalo-amaral-in-el-mundo-gerry-mccann-hid-m-08-0-t4122.html

Do you see the parent's opinion on stranger abduction as a theory? I think they presented it very much as a fact. It was very quickly being reported as a fact by the media too. Pointing out that there was no evidence to support this 'fact' was a natural response imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 10:11:47 AM
Do you see the parent's opinion on stranger abduction as a theory? I think they presented it very much as a fact. It was very quickly being reported as a fact by the media too. Pointing out that there was no evidence to support this 'fact' was a natural response imo.
Why should how the parents “presented the evidence” have anything to do with how the case was invesigated?  The parents of Cleo Smith presented their child’s disappearance at the hands of a stranger as a fact too, so what?  Should they have not done so?  I don’t understand what you are trying to say and I suspect you don’t know either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 10:22:41 AM
Personally I believe the Portuguese investigation was largely led by online nonsense they read on the Mirror Forum. @)(++(*
It was uncanny how often daft theories would appear on there, only to surface shortly thereafter in media reports concerning the direction of the PJ investigation, some of which were later collaborated as the actual direction of travel by Amaral’s book.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 10:32:52 AM
Do you see the parent's opinion on stranger abduction as a theory? I think they presented it very much as a fact. It was very quickly being reported as a fact by the media too. Pointing out that there was no evidence to support this 'fact' was a natural response imo.
PS: I’m looking forward to the day that you start abiding by the IMO rules.  It is only your opinion that there was no evidence of abduction, when are you going to accept that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 11:26:52 AM
Why should how the parents “presented the evidence” have anything to do with how the case was invesigated?  The parents of Cleo Smith presented their child’s disappearance at the hands of a stranger as a fact too, so what?  Should they have not done so?  I don’t understand what you are trying to say and I suspect you don’t know either.

It didn't. The PJ stood firm and ran the investigation how they saw fit. Amaral was explaining why they didn't follow the parent's theory.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 02, 2022, 11:26:56 AM
Perhaps Amaral was responding to the suggestion by Madeleine's parents that an abductor chose to ignore the unlocked door and decided to raise some shutters on the off chance that the window behind it was also unlocked? It was also achieved without leaving any evidence behind; except that seen by the two of them.

I think you and Amaral appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet. 

I can understand why Amaral is punting the notion that everyone is out of step except for our wee Goncalo as he clings to his outmoded theories rejected by the evidence and everyone since 2008 - in particular, the Judicial Police - as he punts untruths in support of his patsy allegations regarding Brueckner.

Madeleine's parents are witnesses and victims of a crime for which investigators have evidence sufficient to make Brueckner - convicted rapist and paedophile - the prime suspect.

Think about it and study the mental image of the direct line from Brueckner's home to the villa where he carried out an horrific rape to the holiday apartment from which Madeleine vanished.
Then wonder at the investigation which ignored crimes against females and the defence of the proven perpetrator of one of these crimes being mounted by the lead detective who claims to have investigated and cleared Brueckner in 2007.

Nobody made that claim for him.  Amaral has been quite up front about it all which I think is worth pondering about.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 11:29:36 AM
It didn't. The PJ stood firm and ran the investigation how they saw fit. Amaral was explaining why they didn't follow the parent's theory.
That's not what you were talking about though was it?  You were making some spurious point about the McCanns "presenting abduction as fact".  What's your problem with that?  If Amaral didn't follow the parents' theory simply because he didn't like them "presenting it as fact" well, that's not very professional is it?  Reminds me of the doctor who refused to agree with my self-diagnosis (incorrectly as it happens) because he didn't like the idea that I might know my own body better than he did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 02, 2022, 11:31:48 AM
Evidence may lead to a change of direction, but not without those in charge knowing and agreeing. Can you imagine the mess if they thought their team was investigating a missing person case when the team had actually decided to investigate a murder but didn't bother telling their superiors?

I think you tend to forget that Amaral was sacked from Madeleine's investigation the minute he publicly advertised his incompetence.  My opinion is it was a long time coming.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 11:41:23 AM
Do you see the parent's opinion on stranger abduction as a theory? I think they presented it very much as a fact. It was very quickly being reported as a fact by the media too. Pointing out that there was no evidence to support this 'fact' was a natural response imo.

Based on what the parents are said to have found upon entering the apartment (with the window and shutters being open), to them, an abduction would seem the only plausible option if they knew that they weren't involved. The only other really plausible option is that Madeleine left of her own accord. And since they knew her better than anyone, they would know whether this seemed a reasonable prospect or not. Aside from the question of "why" she would leave the apartment, is the other question of how she would have managed to raise the heavy shutters and then open the window without leaving any fingerprints. Unlike an intruder who would almost certainly be wearing gloves, she would not. So no, if they are telling the truth about finding the window open, I see nothing unusual about them asserting so vehemently that Madeleine must have been taken.

I have no issue with Amaral questioning their account though. In fairness, it would be remiss of him to not consider the parents involvement. Unfortunately, in the case of missing children, it is most often someone known to the child who is responsible. But he went well beyond just "pointing out" there were no obvious signs of an intruder. My issue is with logic of his theory and the reasoning he uses to reach his conclusions. Such as:

"The window wasn't open as Kate claimed because it was closed when the police got there."

Or

"Nobody else could have opened the window because we found no other fingerprints and even though an intruder could have worn gloves, he might not have."

A child could see through this paper thin logic and he is supposed to be a credible detective?

You might think it's a "natural" response to assume there was perhaps no abduction due to lack of traces but do you honestly think the theory he proposes here is any way "natural"?

The implied MMO behind his scenario is just preposterous.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 02, 2022, 11:44:41 AM
It didn't. The PJ stood firm and ran the investigation how they saw fit. Amaral was explaining why they didn't follow the parent's theory.

             I think you are contradicting yourself again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 12:07:13 PM
Based on what the parents are said to have found upon entering the apartment (with the window and shutters being open), to them, an abduction would seem the only plausible option if they knew that they weren't involved. The only other really plausible option is that Madeleine left of her own accord. And since they knew her better than anyone, they would know whether this seemed a reasonable prospect or not. Aside from the question of "why" she would leave the apartment, is the other question of how she would have managed to raise the heavy shutters and then open the window without leaving any fingerprints. Unlike an intruder who would almost certainly be wearing gloves, she would not. So no, if they are telling the truth about finding the window open, I see nothing unusual about them asserting so vehemently that Madeleine must have been taken.

I have no issue with Amaral questioning their account though. In fairness, it would be remiss of him to not consider the parents involvement. Unfortunately, in the case of missing children, it is most often someone known to the child who is responsible. But he went well beyond just "pointing out" there were no obvious signs of an intruder. My issue is with logic of his theory and the reasoning he uses to reach his conclusions. Such as:

"The window wasn't open as Kate claimed because it was closed when the police got there."

Or

"Nobody else could have opened the window because we found no other fingerprints and even though an intruder could have worn gloves, he might not have."

A child could see through this paper thin logic and he is supposed to be a credible detective?

You might think it's a "natural" response to assume there was perhaps no abduction due to lack of traces but do you honestly think the theory he proposes here is any way "natural"?

The implied MMO behind his scenario is just preposterous.
The problem with sceptics (even the most self-proclaimed open-minded of them who claim they don't know what happened to Madeleine and that the parents may not be involved), is that they simply can't imagine the possibility that the McCanns might actually be giving an honest account of that night, and how they found the room and the window.   If they were actually able to come to terms with this possibility then they might not make spurious arguments such as "Because the McCanns presented abduction as fact that's why the investigation took the direction it did".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 02, 2022, 01:30:37 PM
Not necessarily. You can never underestimate the power of sheer dumb luck. Ultimately, if CB went in there initially with the intent to burgle (before something else happened and changed the course of events), he would likely have been suitably prepped to avoid leaving traces anyway. Gloves, hat etc. How many burglaries did he get caught for in Portugal? And there's no reason to believe he would have needed to disturb anything.

I wouldn't discount that he could have planned it out properly either though. Look at the rape of the 72 year old. How did he enter her home? An unlocked patio door. Already all dressed up in kit intended to avoid identification or leave forensics traces. That was pretty well planned out, he evaded capture for 14 years, even though PJ HAD found a forensic trace he left behind. And I know it's probably a bit premature to cite him as being responsible for the Hazel B attack, but that too showed an element of pre-planning. Again entering through an unlocked sliding door. She states the intruder knew her name and says that someone had already been in her apartment a few days beforehand as money was missing and things moved around. If reports that his fingerprint has been found there are true, you really do have to start questioning how competent the PJ really are. It might be less a case of CB executing the "perfect crime", and more a case of PJ executing another poor investigation.
The last sentence - as I've mentioned before, I don't really buy the 'inept investigation' schtick, not entirely, and not any more or less than any other police force. The scrutiny was immense from the get go and Leicestershire Police were entwined in the investigation very early on. Additionally, several outside agents also participated, so they were equally inept.
Did Amaral, et al (nice rhyming couplet there to add to my limerick database) go off on one, or were they following the evidence under intense global scrutiny? - Let's never forget the Murat whack-a-mole episode.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 01:42:12 PM
That's not what you were talking about though was it?  You were making some spurious point about the McCanns "presenting abduction as fact".  What's your problem with that?  If Amaral didn't follow the parents' theory simply because he didn't like them "presenting it as fact" well, that's not very professional is it?  Reminds me of the doctor who refused to agree with my self-diagnosis (incorrectly as it happens) because he didn't like the idea that I might know my own body better than he did.

Ben Needham's mum was convinced he'd been abducted, but neither the Greek or UK police were convinced. Why, then, were the PJ expected to investigate the McCann's theory?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 02:16:05 PM
Ben Needham's mum was convinced he'd been abducted, but neither the Greek or UK police were convinced. Why, then, were the PJ expected to investigate the McCann's theory?
The PJ were expected to have a completely open mind about what happened to Madeleine, why would you expect them NOT to investigate abduction, pray tell?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 02:30:47 PM
The PJ were expected to have a completely open mind about what happened to Madeleine, why would you expect them NOT to investigate abduction, pray tell?

I wouldn't expect any police force to investigate something for which there was no evidence. The Greek police didn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 02:42:05 PM
I wouldn't expect any police force to investigate something for which there was no evidence. The Greek police didn't.
Sigh.  Of course there was evidence of abduction in the McCann case, and please supply a cite for the Greek police not considering abduction in the Needham case. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 02:49:09 PM
I wouldn't expect any police force to investigate something for which there was no evidence. The Greek police didn't.
Perhaps you can explain this
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/people/ben-needhams-family-given-fresh-hope-on-30th-anniversary-of-sheffield-toddlers-disappearance-as-new-witnesses-emerge-3320556
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 03:29:31 PM
The last sentence - as I've mentioned before, I don't really buy the 'inept investigation' schtick, not entirely, and not any more or less than any other police force. The scrutiny was immense from the get go and Leicestershire Police were entwined in the investigation very early on. Additionally, several outside agents also participated, so they were equally inept.
Did Amaral, et al (nice rhyming couplet there to add to my limerick database) go off on one, or were they following the evidence under intense global scrutiny? - Let's never forget the Murat whack-a-mole episode.

The failings of the investigation have no doubt been debated and discussed here ad nauseam (bit more latin for ya)  8(0(* so I don't really want to dredge through all that. I doubt even the most hardened sceptic would deny that things could have been done better though.

My point was in relation to your claim about it having to be some perfectly executed crime, a claim I often see touted on the basis that there were no traces of an intruder. But it's very possible he just got lucky. And it's also very possible that there were traces, but the police didn't do a good enough job of highlighting or searching for them. How many forensic samples did they collect from the apartment during the initial sweep for example (excluding hairs)? What kind of tests did they carry out to check for the presence of any incapacitating agents? What CCTV did they collect from the surrounding area before it got wiped over? How can we be sure they don't in fact have forensics of the intruder, but just failed to assign them to anyone, like has apparently happened in the other 2 cases I cited? How can we be sure that forensic traces were left, but had been contaminated by their failure to preserve the integrity of the crime scene?

My argument is that people point to the implausibility of an intruder on the basis of what was NOT found. But they fail to question how intensive and professional the search for looking for those things actually was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on March 02, 2022, 04:20:13 PM

Making an argument about evidence that hypothetically might have existed  but wasn't found is pointless.

Police can only work with evidence  that they actually have.

IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 06:01:20 PM
Perhaps you can explain this
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/people/ben-needhams-family-given-fresh-hope-on-30th-anniversary-of-sheffield-toddlers-disappearance-as-new-witnesses-emerge-3320556

What about it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 06:28:42 PM
What about it?
Read it, then explain why Greek authorities were prepared to investigate a possible sighting of Ben Needham last year if they rejected the possibility that Ben had been abducted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 06:29:42 PM
Making an argument about evidence that hypothetically might have existed  but wasn't found is pointless.

Police can only work with evidence  that they actually have.

IMO
Everything we discuss is pointless, what’s new.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 06:57:21 PM
Making an argument about evidence that hypothetically might have existed  but wasn't found is pointless.

Police can only work with evidence  that they actually have.

IMO

There's a lot of 'what if' and 'perhaps' used because the evidence doesn't support some people's opinions imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 07:00:39 PM
There's a lot of 'what if' and 'perhaps' used because the evidence doesn't support some people's opinions imo.
What if you stopped claiming as fact that there’s no evidence of abduction?  Perhaps if you familiarize yourself with the definition of “evidence “ the penny may drop and  you will stop making this claim.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 02, 2022, 07:33:47 PM
What if you stopped claiming as fact that there’s no evidence of abduction?  Perhaps if you familiarize yourself with the definition of “evidence “ the penny may drop and  you will stop making this claim.

We've been over this dozens of times for as long as I've been a member and nothing has changed that I have seen. I saw no evidence of an abduction, all we have was the McCanns claims about doors and windows. For all anyone really knows the kid walked out herself.

Add to this the conduct of the parents in the days following Maddie's mysterious disappearance, the laughing, the jogging and God knows what else followed by the attempts to thwart the investigators followed by the refusal of her mother to answer any police questions at the arguido interview.

Not really the conduct of someone who had a child abducted by a stranger imho???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 02, 2022, 07:41:51 PM
The failings of the investigation have no doubt been debated and discussed here ad nauseam (bit more latin for ya)  8(0(* so I don't really want to dredge through all that. I doubt even the most hardened sceptic would deny that things could have been done better though.

My point was in relation to your claim about it having to be some perfectly executed crime, a claim I often see touted on the basis that there were no traces of an intruder. But it's very possible he just got lucky. And it's also very possible that there were traces, but the police didn't do a good enough job of highlighting or searching for them. How many forensic samples did they collect from the apartment during the initial sweep for example (excluding hairs)? What kind of tests did they carry out to check for the presence of any incapacitating agents? What CCTV did they collect from the surrounding area before it got wiped over? How can we be sure they don't in fact have forensics of the intruder, but just failed to assign them to anyone, like has apparently happened in the other 2 cases I cited? How can we be sure that forensic traces were left, but had been contaminated by their failure to preserve the integrity of the crime scene?

My argument is that people point to the implausibility of an intruder on the basis of what was NOT found. But they fail to question how intensive and professional the search for looking for those things actually was.

Which all ultimately points to the kid walking out of the apartment under her own steam and getting into trouble outside.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 08:49:14 PM
What if you stopped claiming as fact that there’s no evidence of abduction?  Perhaps if you familiarize yourself with the definition of “evidence “ the penny may drop and  you will stop making this claim.

Are you saying that an open window is evidence of abduction?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 02, 2022, 08:55:18 PM
Are you saying that an open window is evidence of abduction?

It is
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 02, 2022, 08:59:46 PM
We've been over this dozens of times for as long as I've been a member and nothing has changed that I have seen. I saw no evidence of an abduction, all we have was the McCanns claims about doors and windows. For all anyone really knows the kid walked out herself.

Add to this the conduct of the parents in the days following Maddie's mysterious disappearance, the laughing, the jogging and God knows what else followed by the attempts to thwart the investigators followed by the refusal of her mother to answer any police questions at the arguido interview.

Not really the conduct of someone who had a child abducted by a stranger imho???

You're right.. Not the conduct of a parent whose child was abducted by a paedophile... But precisely the conduct you would expect from a parent who's child walked out of the apartment and was then abducted by a paedophile.. Well spotted
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 09:01:02 PM
Making an argument about evidence that hypothetically might have existed  but wasn't found is pointless.

Police can only work with evidence  that they actually have.

IMO

Youre completely ignoring the point I was making. The deflection tactic doesn't surprise me. But do feel free to point out where I said police could work with evidence they don't have, seeing as you seem to think this was my argument.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 02, 2022, 09:02:01 PM
Which all ultimately points to the kid walking out of the apartment under her own steam and getting into trouble outside.

Sigh ~ you've certainly got it right that "the kid" got into trouble.  The Germans are confident that they have the evidence which tells them so and they also have evidence which tells them who is responsible for causing that trouble.

Where I think you and Amaral have got it a wee bit askew is with regard to just about everything else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 09:06:54 PM
There's a lot of 'what if' and 'perhaps' used because the evidence doesn't support some people's opinions imo.

 @)(++(* That's funny , it really is. You have no evidence the parents were lying yet your (and all the other sceptics) theory relies entirely on this premise. And not just the parents lying, but the entire group. It's an exciting theory if you're into that sort of conspiracy, the problem is it's missing one rather major thing. A credible motive. Please enlighten me if you have one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 09:12:51 PM
We've been over this dozens of times for as long as I've been a member and nothing has changed that I have seen. I saw no evidence of an abduction, all we have was the McCanns claims about doors and windows. For all anyone really knows the kid walked out herself.

Add to this the conduct of the parents in the days following Maddie's mysterious disappearance, the laughing, the jogging and God knows what else followed by the attempts to thwart the investigators followed by the refusal of her mother to answer any police questions at the arguido interview.

Not really the conduct of someone who had a child abducted by a stranger imho???
Wait, so you think “the kid” walked out of her own accord and vanished and the parents didn’t care?   Well, that’s a new one!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 09:13:39 PM
Are you saying that an open window is evidence of abduction?
Of course it is.  Is an open zip on a tent evidence of abduction?  If not please explain why not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 09:14:59 PM
Which all ultimately points to the kid walking out of the apartment under her own steam and getting into trouble outside.

I'm at a loss for words with both of your recent posts. They do not make sense in any way whatsoever. I think you've trumped everyone in the backwards logic department. Congrats.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 09:22:36 PM
Of course it is.  Is an open zip on a tent evidence of abduction?  If not please explain why not.

Quite. I'd love to know what does constitute evidence of an abduction in the mind of a sceptic, short of it being filmed on camera. If you can just claim everyone is lying then what else is left? Blood splattered across the walls to show signs of an epic struggle presumably? We're talking about a 3 yr old sleeping kid, being walked out of an unlocked apartment in a quiet resort. What evidence are people expecting to be found here exactly?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2022, 09:42:39 PM
@)(++(* That's funny , it really is. You have no evidence the parents were lying yet your (and all the other sceptics) theory relies entirely on this premise. And not just the parents lying, but the entire group. It's an exciting theory if you're into that sort of conspiracy, the problem is it's missing one rather major thing. A credible motive. Please enlighten me if you have one.

The only evidence of abduction is that provided by Madeeine's parents. Therefore those who accept that story are  relying entirely on the truthfulness of her parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 09:56:18 PM
The only evidence of abduction is that provided by Madeeine's parents. Therefore those who accept that story are  relying entirely on the truthfulness of her parents.

Don't forget the truthfulness of the other 7 people in their group. Again, tell me the motive if it all makes so much sense. Point me to another similar case where you can draw a parralel of a conspiracy on this scale to cover up an accidental death. Or tell me what evidence you think we should have seen if an abduction did take place. What is it you think is "missing"? What evidence is "normally" found in abduction cases to prove an abduction occurred if there's no eye-witness to the crime itself?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 10:01:53 PM
The only evidence of abduction is that provided by Madeeine's parents. Therefore those who accept that story are  relying entirely on the truthfulness of her parents.
Do you accept the possibility that the McCanns are innocent?  You’ve always claimed to open-minded, so the answer should be yes, right?  So, the open window would be evidence in that case would it not?  But you always say there is no evidence of abduction which proves you don’t believe the parents and that you are closed to the possibility that they are innocent.  IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 02, 2022, 10:29:15 PM
The only evidence of abduction is that provided by Madeeine's parents. Therefore those who accept that story are  relying entirely on the truthfulness of her parents.

You can apply that weak logic to almost any crime if there is no video of it and you want to assume everyone is just lying. In most burglaries for example, there is no evidence of a burglary other than the owner saying they have been burgled. But just because the only evidence of the burglary is because the owner "said so", does not mean that there is no evidence of a burglary.

Yes, they could have set it up themselves, the open door, the missing items, all as part of an elaborate insurance fraud because this is all circumstantial evidence. And if police have reason to suspect that as a motive, then it's reasonable to suspect they may be lying and investigate accordingly. But that is where the sceptics argument falters. What is the motive for the McCanns AND the Tapas 7 to ALL lie?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 02, 2022, 10:35:17 PM
The only evidence of abduction is that provided by Madeeine's parents. Therefore those who accept that story are  relying entirely on the truthfulness of her parents.
For me... All the evidence supports the truthfulness of the McCanns. SY and the BKA both find them truthful
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 02, 2022, 10:38:27 PM
You can apply that weak logic to almost any crime if there is no video of it and you want to assume everyone is just lying. In most burglaries for example, there is no evidence of a burglary other than the owner saying they have been burgled. But just because the only evidence of the burglary is because the owner "said so", does not mean that there is no evidence of a burglary.

Yes, they could have set it up themselves, the open door, the missing items, all as part of an elaborate insurance fraud because this is all circumstantial evidence. And if police have reason to suspect that as a motive, then it's reasonable to suspect they may be lying and investigate accordingly. But that is where the sceptics argument falters. What is the motive for the McCanns AND the Tapas 7 to ALL lie?
You won’t get an answer from G-Unit to this question, guaranteed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 08:20:25 AM
Don't forget the truthfulness of the other 7 people in their group. Again, tell me the motive if it all makes so much sense. Point me to another similar case where you can draw a parralel of a conspiracy on this scale to cover up an accidental death. Or tell me what evidence you think we should have seen if an abduction did take place. What is it you think is "missing"? What evidence is "normally" found in abduction cases to prove an abduction occurred if there's no eye-witness to the crime itself?

Why do you assume there was a conspiracy? Had there been they would all have claimed to see the open window imo but not one of the did.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 08:37:15 AM
Why do you assume there was a conspiracy? Had there been they would all have claimed to see the open window imo but not one of the did.
In order for the pair of them to have executed this perfect crime, they would have needed the support of their fellow holiday makers, that is surely a given?  If you don’t believe there was a conspiracy then you can rule out the “dead before the 3rd” theory which you seem reluctant to do, any reason for that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 03, 2022, 08:49:10 AM
For me... All the evidence supports the truthfulness of the McCanns. SY and the BKA both find them truthful

Setting aside the fact that Amaral is a convicted perjurer where does one start when it comes to quantifying either his truthfulness or his well documented capacity for promulgating error as in the Calpol saga.

There is no doubt he has gone out of his way to interfere detrimentally in the German investigation into Madeleine's case.

My impression of that is that msm in Portugal is at long last casting a critical eye over his pontifications and reporting on the facts.  Which reflect the view that there is a realistic prime suspect in Madeleine's case who was ignored in 2007 and Amaral's recent conduct might be an indication of exactly why it was impossible to crack the case back then.

I think more appropriate than the propaganda tool of Amaral with a gag over his mouth a more appropriate one would be Amaral with a blindfold over his eyes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 09:13:20 AM
In order for the pair of them to have executed this perfect crime, they would have needed the support of their fellow holiday makers, that is surely a given?  If you don’t believe there was a conspiracy then you can rule out the “dead before the 3rd” theory which you seem reluctant to do, any reason for that?

Being supportive isn't conspiring, particularly if it involves self interest.

I don't know if Madeleine is dead or, if she is, when and how she died. Suggesting that she died before 3rd means that the MW childcare staff weren't up to the job. The only question I would have about that is why, according to DC Marshall, David Payne said in his questionnaire;

he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Gaspar.htm

At 17H00 Madeleine was, according to the evidence, eating her tea in the Tapas complex under the care of the nannies.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 03, 2022, 09:37:10 AM
Being supportive isn't conspiring, particularly if it involves self interest.

I don't know if Madeleine is dead or, if she is, when and how she died. Suggesting that she died before 3rd means that the MW childcare staff weren't up to the job. The only question I would have about that is why, according to DC Marshall, David Payne said in his questionnaire;

he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Gaspar.htm

At 17H00 Madeleine was, according to the evidence, eating her tea in the Tapas complex under the care of the nannies.

Há fortes indícios da simulação de um crime de rapto.
There's strong evidence of a kidnapping crime.

We ask, and we keep asking, if it's said there's a real kidnapping why do you simulate a kidnapping? The way forward, not being them to speak, has to be through the reconstitution of the facts with everyone, which after 14 years is still plausible to do.

https://rr.sapo.pt/noticia/pais/2021/10/15/goncalo-amaral-o-medo-da-justica-portuguesa-e-as-mentiras-da-justica-alema-no-caso-maddie/256864/


Don't you think it might be more appropriate to keep on topic and up to date with the musings of Amaral who concedes that there is strong evidence that Madeleine was kidnapped.

The difficulty you and he seem to share is that you are unable to shake of the taint of the very obvious investigative mistakes of 2007 as you so aptly show in your post above.

Nobody of any importance to Madeleine's investigation is looking back there - where there never was a shred of evidence supporting Amaral's conclusions which you continue to promulgate.

There is evidence in Madeleine's case - it seems there always was.  The Portuguese didn't find it for the simple reason they weren't looking.
Time to move on folks - while keeping on the topic of the thread.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 03, 2022, 09:38:14 AM
They asked a few questions. They had no background knowledge of the case and were simply fulfilling a request from the Met to speak to him. They weren't carrying out an investigation like the PJ were.

No background on the case but yet lots supposedly on CB, what can be said from all of this is, 3 forces have let the girl down.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on March 03, 2022, 09:45:13 AM
It is odd that those pointing out that Amaral’s perjury conviction makes him less reliable as a witness are also the ones hanging their hopes on the witness statements of burglars, drug and people traffickers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 03, 2022, 10:09:33 AM
It is odd that those pointing out that Amaral’s perjury conviction makes him less reliable as a witness are also the ones hanging their hopes on the witness statements of burglars, drug and people traffickers.
I'd wager that perjury  / misconduct in a public office is a constant spectre for most senior police officers, particularly given the seemingly global practice of closing ranks and protecting their own.
The lines between protecting and serving and saving the reputation of a constabulary will often be blurred.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 03, 2022, 10:18:19 AM
The PJ thought the dogs were infallible. Never been wrong in 200 cases. No false positives ever. If that was true then Maddie died in the apartment and the McCanns were involved... But it wasn't true... It was total BS. The PJ believed total BS
Once again, you assume that they're a collective; like the Borg. I doubt the entirety of the investigative resource assumed the dogs were infallible. There's about 3000 years of cumulative policing experience in there, are you seriously suggesting that they were all constantly, blindly swayed by evidence gathering techniques irrespective reliability, or perhaps not even considering it?
Did this include Leicestershire Police (Prior, et al), this malaise? Did they also simply assume that the dogs were never wrong?
Yes you can quote individuals, but your quoted statement refers to the PJ in its entirety.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 10:27:12 AM
I'd wager that perjury  / misconduct in a public office is a constant spectre for most senior police officers, particularly given the seemingly global practice of closing ranks and protecting their own.
The lines between protecting and serving and saving the reputation of a constabulary will often be blurred.

then you would accept that beating CB and extracting a confession is acceptable..i dont
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on March 03, 2022, 10:28:52 AM
I'd wager that perjury  / misconduct in a public office is a constant spectre for most senior police officers, particularly given the seemingly global practice of closing ranks and protecting their own.
The lines between protecting and serving and saving the reputation of a constabulary will often be blurred.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on March 03, 2022, 10:31:53 AM
then you would accept that beating CB and extracting a confession is acceptable..i dont

Don’t you find it odd that Cipriano’s lawyer, who was there at the time, denied that any violence had taken place towards her client?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 03, 2022, 10:35:42 AM
I'd wager that perjury  / misconduct in a public office is a constant spectre for most senior police officers, particularly given the seemingly global practice of closing ranks and protecting their own.
The lines between protecting and serving and saving the reputation of a constabulary will often be blurred.


Indeed whilst there's no evidence any officers involved with Grange are any of the thing's described in official inquiries, they do belong to the organisation that as been described as being institutionally racist, corrupt etc.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 10:44:49 AM
Once again, you assume that they're a collective; like the Borg. I doubt the entirety of the investigative resource assumed the dogs were infallible. There's about 3000 years of cumulative policing experience in there, are you seriously suggesting that they were all constantly, blindly swayed by evidence gathering techniques irrespective reliability, or perhaps not even considering it?
Did this include Leicestershire Police (Prior, et al), this malaise? Did they also simply assume that the dogs were never wrong?
Yes you can quote individuals, but your quoted statement refers to the PJ in its entirety.

Almeida said the main evidence against the mccanns  was the dog alerts...main evidence...cant you see how ridiculous a statement that is. Amaral claims his views were that of the whole investigation.....Im sure both SY and the Germans understand the alerts without supporting evidence have no evidential value or reliability

im 100% sure the PJ thought the dogs were infallible...never a false alert or being wrong in 200 cases...its in the files...amaral said the whole investigation believed his thoughts
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 10:47:42 AM
It is odd that those pointing out that Amaral’s perjury conviction makes him less reliable as a witness are also the ones hanging their hopes on the witness statements of burglars, drug and people traffickers.

Amaral has always said things they don't want to hear. I've noticed that anyone who does that is attacked.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 03, 2022, 10:58:26 AM
It is

I'd it had been witnessed open by an independent witness before Kate McCann went back to the apartment you could claim it as evidence but it wasn't. In fact only her fingerprint was found on it. Strange that?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 10:59:52 AM
For me... All the evidence supports the truthfulness of the McCanns. SY and the BKA both find them truthful

You're in good company then. The Met seems unable to spot wrong 'uns in it's own ranks and the BKA is happy to believe the words of convicted criminals.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 03, 2022, 11:02:32 AM
Amaral has always said things they don't want to hear. I've noticed that anyone who does that is attacked.

Dogs don't lie...only humans do that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 11:05:00 AM
Being supportive isn't conspiring, particularly if it involves self interest.

I don't know if Madeleine is dead or, if she is, when and how she died. Suggesting that she died before 3rd means that the MW childcare staff weren't up to the job. The only question I would have about that is why, according to DC Marshall, David Payne said in his questionnaire;

he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Gaspar.htm

At 17H00 Madeleine was, according to the evidence, eating her tea in the Tapas complex under the care of the nannies.
You're just playing semantics.  Supporting someone to cover up a crime is consipiring. 
"to conspire: to make secret plans jointly to commit an unlawful or harmful act".
Once again you are picking on minor inconsistencies to "wonder" over.  It's been done to death - you don't accept any of the plausible and logical explanations proffered so what is the point in bringing it up yet again? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 11:09:51 AM
I'd it had been witnessed open by an independent witness before Kate McCann went back to the apartment you could claim it as evidence but it wasn't. In fact only her fingerprint was found on it. Strange that?
Are you claiming that something is only evidence if it is also witnessed by an independent witness?  I take it you must therefore believe CB's rape conviction is a miscarriage of justice and that there is no evidence the victim was ever raped?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 11:11:35 AM
You're in good company then. The Met seems unable to spot wrong 'uns in it's own ranks and the BKA is happy to believe the words of convicted criminals.
So basically what you're saying is that the Met and the BKA are worthless organisations that are not capable of investigating crimes and bringing criminals to justice, correct?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 11:12:23 AM
I'd it had been witnessed open by an independent witness before Kate McCann went back to the apartment you could claim it as evidence but it wasn't. In fact only her fingerprint was found on it. Strange that?

a witness statement is admissible evidence..fact
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 11:14:57 AM
Dogs don't lie...only humans do that.

precisely...ask the dogs if they alerted to cadaver or they just alertrd because they werre uinconciously coaxed into it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on March 03, 2022, 11:18:02 AM
Why do you assume there was a conspiracy? Had there been they would all have claimed to see the open window imo but not one of the did.

If Kate was staging a fake abduction,  can you explain to me why she didn't wipe her fingerprints off the window?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on March 03, 2022, 11:20:36 AM
Dogs don't lie...only humans do that.

Can you definitely say that Eddie was alerting to the scent of cadaver,   when there are no gasses in the first stage of decomposition and Madeleine disappeared only an hour or so after being put to bed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 11:40:13 AM
Amaral has always said things they don't want to hear. I've noticed that anyone who does that is attacked.
Amaral has often said things which are demonstrably untrue, are we supposed to just accept them unchallenged?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 03, 2022, 11:47:20 AM
precisely...ask the dogs if they alerted to cadaver or they just alertrd because they werre uinconciously coaxed into it
Gerry?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 03, 2022, 11:50:06 AM
then you would accept that beating CB and extracting a confession is acceptable..i dont
No True Scotsman. You're close to the full set this month alone.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 03, 2022, 11:51:51 AM
Can you definitely say that Eddie was alerting to the scent of cadaver,   when there are no gasses in the first stage of decomposition and Madeleine disappeared only an hour or so after being put to bed.
....if you can provide independent corroboration of your 'hour or so' assertion, within a range of certainty, yes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 03, 2022, 11:54:50 AM
Almeida said the main evidence against the mccanns  was the dog alerts...main evidence...cant you see how ridiculous a statement that is. Amaral claims his views were that of the whole investigation.....Im sure both SY and the Germans understand the alerts without supporting evidence have no evidential value or reliability

im 100% sure the PJ thought the dogs were infallible...never a false alert or being wrong in 200 cases...its in the files...amaral said the whole investigation believed his thoughts
You're so sure, but Stuart Prior never put anyone straight?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 03, 2022, 12:04:00 PM
Why do you assume there was a conspiracy? Had there been they would all have claimed to see the open window imo but not one of the did.

Conspiracy - a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

And I don't "assume" there was a conspiracy, but all the sceptic theories I've seen (including Amaral's) rely upon collusion within the group to conceal the "truth" or provide a false account of what happened.

For example, their collective accounts don't allow for the parents to have had time to dispose of the body and stage an abduction if an "accident" occured to Madeleine during dinner. Their accounts support the notion that everything was normal, nothing was untoward or suspicious about the parents behaviour prior to the alert if you're assuming something had happened prior to dinner. The account of Matthew Oldfield supports Gerry's account of the moving door. The account of Jane Tanner supports the prospect of an abductor. The account of David Payne supports that Madeleine was alive and well that evening etc etc. All of these are things that sceptics point to as evidence of a collaborative deception.

If you have a specific theory that implicates the parent's involvement but does not rely upon anyone else in the group lying, please share it. Because every option I've seen proposed relies on other members of the group being deliberately dishonest in some way or other.

You are doing everything you can to deflect from addressing the uncomfortable questions being posed. Resorting instead to whataboutery or picking on a trivial semantics you think you can contest.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 12:04:49 PM
You're so sure, but Stuart Prior never put anyone straight?

Grime told the PJ at a meeting that the alerts had no evident value.. Read Harrisons report. Grime was writing his CV for his new business.. I've explained it all before. Eddies alerts.. Total BS imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 03, 2022, 12:10:23 PM
It is odd that those pointing out that Amaral’s perjury conviction makes him less reliable as a witness are also the ones hanging their hopes on the witness statements of burglars, drug and people traffickers.

It's not just that he's been convicted for lying and falsifying evidence though is it. He also has a very clear and obvious motive to try pinning everything on the parents, and previous in that regard with the Ciprianos. I don't know that you can say the same about CB's former associates and girlfriends who believe he is guilty, none of whom have been convicted of perjury as far as I'm aware. Unfortunately, any new leads in this case after this amount of time was always likely to come from fellow criminal associates with inside knowledge of the perpetrator.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 03, 2022, 12:13:49 PM
No background on the case but yet lots supposedly on CB, what can be said from all of this is, 3 forces have let the girl down.

Not the point you were making though was it. The BKA have admitted the 2013 incident was unfortunate and should have been handled better. I'm still waiting to find out why the PJ "ruled him out" in 2007. Apparently they knocked on his door (which door?), he wasn't in, so...what happened then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 03, 2022, 12:33:27 PM
Are you claiming that something is only evidence if it is also witnessed by an independent witness?  I take it you must therefore believe CB's rape conviction is a miscarriage of justice and that there is no evidence the victim was ever raped?

One persons uncorroborated sayso isn't evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 03, 2022, 12:35:22 PM
If Kate was staging a fake abduction,  can you explain to me why she didn't wipe her fingerprints off the window?

Somebody certainly tried to wipe the window clean.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 12:36:54 PM
One persons uncorroborated sayso isn't evidence.

Yes it is... You need to read up the definition of evidence.

So only Martin Smith ID Gerry... No one else... So that's not evidence too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 03, 2022, 12:37:45 PM
Amaral has often said things which are demonstrably untrue, are we supposed to just accept them unchallenged?

Can you elaborate?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 12:38:17 PM
Somebody certainly tried to wipe the window clean.

No one tried to wipe the window clean
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 03, 2022, 12:39:21 PM
Yes it is... You need to read up the definition of evidence.

So only Martin Smith ID Gerry... No one else... So that's not evidence too.

Nobody is going to believe the word of official suspects who failed to cooperate with the original police investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 03, 2022, 12:39:46 PM
No one tried to wipe the window clean

I beg to differ.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 03, 2022, 12:43:54 PM
Yes it is... You need to read up the definition of evidence.

So only Martin Smith ID Gerry... No one else... So that's not evidence too.

I believe you are confused between evidence and recording evidence in a witness statement.

Uncorroborated evidence is not proof of anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 12:45:45 PM
So basically what you're saying is that the Met and the BKA are worthless organisations that are not capable of investigating crimes and bringing criminals to justice, correct?

Incorrect. They are neither bastions of excellence and perfection nor 'worthless organisations that are not capable of investigating crimes and bringing criminals to justice'. They're fallible because they're made up of human beings. Therefore quoting them to support one's own beliefs isn't really a recommendation imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 12:53:34 PM
I believe you are confused between evidence and recording evidence in a witness statement.

Uncorroborated evidence is not proof of anything.

Your the one who's confused.. You start talking about evidence then proof.. A witness statement is evidence.. That's a fact.. Not poof but evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 12:55:49 PM
Nobody is going to believe the word of official suspects who failed to cooperate with the original police investigation.

SY and the BKA believe them.. That's what matters
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 01:14:06 PM
Conspiracy - a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

And I don't "assume" there was a conspiracy, but all the sceptic theories I've seen (including Amaral's) rely upon collusion within the group to conceal the "truth" or provide a false account of what happened.

For example, their collective accounts don't allow for the parents to have had time to dispose of the body and stage an abduction if an "accident" occured to Madeleine during dinner. Their accounts support the notion that everything was normal, nothing was untoward or suspicious about the parents behaviour prior to the alert if you're assuming something had happened prior to dinner. The account of Matthew Oldfield supports Gerry's account of the moving door. The account of Jane Tanner supports the prospect of an abductor. The account of David Payne supports that Madeleine was alive and well that evening etc etc. All of these are things that sceptics point to as evidence of a collaborative deception.

If you have a specific theory that implicates the parent's involvement but does not rely upon anyone else in the group lying, please share it. Because every option I've seen proposed relies on other members of the group being deliberately dishonest in some way or other.

You are doing everything you can to deflect from addressing the uncomfortable questions being posed. Resorting instead to whataboutery or picking on a trivial semantics you think you can contest.

It sounded like an assumption to me; " Point me to another similar case where you can draw a parralel of a conspiracy on this scale to cover up an accidental death."

What if whatever happened to Madeleine didn't happen during dinner?
Was it normal for Kate McCann to ask her friends if she'd made the right decision by leaving the patio door open so Madeleine could leave 5A and find them? After all, according to Russell they'd been doing it since Sunday evening, although Gerry denied that.
The moving door saga suggests there was an intruder before 9pm, then again before 9.30pm and a third between 9.30 and 10pm. What that explains I can't imagine. The change in the bedroom door position after 9.30pm detracts from Jane Tanner's sighting of an abductor at 9.15pm, unless he went back to move it afterwards.
David Payne did indeed testify that he saw Madeleine at around 6.40pm, but not until 11 months after the event. Then we have his questionnaire when he is reported as saying he was in 5A at 5pm when, supposedly, he was at the beach.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 03, 2022, 01:20:08 PM
If Kate was staging a fake abduction,  can you explain to me why she didn't wipe her fingerprints off the window?

Yet the strangers supposedly doing so never left any, strange old world to be sure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 01:20:21 PM
Conspiracy - a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

And I don't "assume" there was a conspiracy, but all the sceptic theories I've seen (including Amaral's) rely upon collusion within the group to conceal the "truth" or provide a false account of what happened.

For example, their collective accounts don't allow for the parents to have had time to dispose of the body and stage an abduction if an "accident" occured to Madeleine during dinner. Their accounts support the notion that everything was normal, nothing was untoward or suspicious about the parents behaviour prior to the alert if you're assuming something had happened prior to dinner. The account of Matthew Oldfield supports Gerry's account of the moving door. The account of Jane Tanner supports the prospect of an abductor. The account of David Payne supports that Madeleine was alive and well that evening etc etc. All of these are things that sceptics point to as evidence of a collaborative deception.

If you have a specific theory that implicates the parent's involvement but does not rely upon anyone else in the group lying, please share it. Because every option I've seen proposed relies on other members of the group being deliberately dishonest in some way or other.

You are doing everything you can to deflect from addressing the uncomfortable questions being posed. Resorting instead to whataboutery or picking on a trivial semantics you think you can contest.
^^^this^^^^
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 01:22:02 PM
One persons uncorroborated sayso isn't evidence.
Yes it is.  One day you guys will come to understand the meaning of the word evidence.  I look forward to that day, but I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 01:23:05 PM
Can you elaborate?
Yes I can.  Check out Amaral's TV interviews in which he falsely claimed CB had long hair and a van covered in graffiti at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 01:24:21 PM
Nobody is going to believe the word of official suspects who failed to cooperate with the original police investigation.
So, there is nothing that the mcCanns said in their statements that you believe?  Wow. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 01:25:19 PM
I believe you are confused between evidence and recording evidence in a witness statement.

Uncorroborated evidence is not proof of anything.
Crikey.  No one said evidence was proof of anything.  You are one seriously confused hombre.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 01:26:06 PM
Incorrect. They are neither bastions of excellence and perfection nor 'worthless organisations that are not capable of investigating crimes and bringing criminals to justice'. They're fallible because they're made up of human beings. Therefore quoting them to support one's own beliefs isn't really a recommendation imo.
So, who from the G-Unit list of approved sources may one quote to support one's beliefs, if the official police investigation is off limits?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 01:30:29 PM
SY and the BKA believe them.. That's what matters

Only to you, who seems to assume that the police are always right. Except the Portuguese police that is, who you assume are always wrong imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 03, 2022, 01:59:14 PM
It sounded like an assumption to me; " Point me to another similar case where you can draw a parralel of a conspiracy on this scale to cover up an accidental death."

What if whatever happened to Madeleine didn't happen during dinner?
Was it normal for Kate McCann to ask her friends if she'd made the right decision by leaving the patio door open so Madeleine could leave 5A and find them? After all, according to Russell they'd been doing it since Sunday evening, although Gerry denied that.
The moving door saga suggests there was an intruder before 9pm, then again before 9.30pm and a third between 9.30 and 10pm. What that explains I can't imagine. The change in the bedroom door position after 9.30pm detracts from Jane Tanner's sighting of an abductor at 9.15pm, unless he went back to move it afterwards.
David Payne did indeed testify that he saw Madeleine at around 6.40pm, but not until 11 months after the event. Then we have his questionnaire when he is reported as saying he was in 5A at 5pm when, supposedly, he was at the beach.

Hmm, that sounds like a load more whataboutery to me.

I'll tell you what, I'll retract my point about the conspiracy and re-phrase my question. Since that was the only objection you raised, I'm sure you'll now have no issue in addressing the points I posed. 8((()*/


Point me to another similar case where you can draw a parralel of someone staging an abduction to cover up an accidental death.

What is the motive?

Tell me what other evidence you think we should have seen if an abduction did take place?

What other evidence is "normally" found in abduction cases to prove an abduction occurred (assuming there's no eye-witness to the crime itself)?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 02:03:46 PM
Only to you, who seems to assume that the police are always right. Except the Portuguese police that is, who you assume are always wrong imo.
Does it matter to you that the Met and the BKA have wasted years and millions investigating the wrong person (in your view)?    Why do you think so many investigators and officials across two countries have got it so very wrong, in your view?  It's an international scandal, isn't it, if you're right and they are wrong?  Do you think there's any hope whatsoever that the true culprits (as you see them) will ever be brought to justice, and does it matter to you if they aren't? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on March 03, 2022, 02:14:00 PM
Yet the strangers supposedly doing so never left any, strange old world to be sure.

It's obvious whoever it was wore gloves.   It was only a single hair left on the bed that managed to incriminate CB.   There may have been a hair or skin on Madeleine's bed but they were washed before they could be examined.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on March 03, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
Somebody certainly tried to wipe the window clean.

Really where did you read that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on March 03, 2022, 02:21:54 PM
....if you can provide independent corroboration of your 'hour or so' assertion, within a range of certainty, yes.

The McCanns left Madeleine asleep by half eight,  she was found to be missing at ten.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 03, 2022, 02:27:25 PM
It's obvious whoever it was wore gloves.   It was only a single hair left on the bed that managed to incriminate CB.   There may have been a hair or skin on Madeleine's bed but they were washed before they could be examined.

Neither Tannerman or Smithman were described to be wearing gloves .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on March 03, 2022, 02:28:00 PM
It sounded like an assumption to me; " Point me to another similar case where you can draw a parralel of a conspiracy on this scale to cover up an accidental death."

What if whatever happened to Madeleine didn't happen during dinner?
Was it normal for Kate McCann to ask her friends if she'd made the right decision by leaving the patio door open so Madeleine could leave 5A and find them? After all, according to Russell they'd been doing it since Sunday evening, although Gerry denied that.
The moving door saga suggests there was an intruder before 9pm, then again before 9.30pm and a third between 9.30 and 10pm. What that explains I can't imagine. The change in the bedroom door position after 9.30pm detracts from Jane Tanner's sighting of an abductor at 9.15pm, unless he went back to move it afterwards.
David Payne did indeed testify that he saw Madeleine at around 6.40pm, but not until 11 months after the event. Then we have his questionnaire when he is reported as saying he was in 5A at 5pm when, supposedly, he was at the beach.

The door before nine would have been someone entering bedroom after the McCann's left.   Gerry put the door back how they had left it.   Then when Gerry left,  intruder takes Madeleine and leaves,  the door is open wider again when he leaves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on March 03, 2022, 02:28:39 PM
Neither Tannerman or Smithman were described to be wearing gloves .

Maybe they took them off not to look suspicious.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 03, 2022, 02:28:48 PM
It's obvious whoever it was wore gloves.   It was only a single hair left on the bed that managed to incriminate CB.   There may have been a hair or skin on Madeleine's bed but they were washed before they could be examined.

Ingress or egress the window ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 03, 2022, 02:29:52 PM
Maybe they took them off not to look suspicious.


If, buts and maybes again, nothing concrete to suggest an intruder, see its easy to understand why its still not solved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on March 03, 2022, 02:30:58 PM
Ingress or egress the window ?

IMO the person came in through the front door.   I believe the window was opened as a way of escape or to pass Madeleine through.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on March 03, 2022, 02:32:01 PM

If, buts and maybes again, nothing concrete to suggest an intruder, see its easy to understand why its still not solved.

Well of course there ifs buts and maybes.   That doesn't mean you can rule out an intruder.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 02:33:23 PM
Only to you, who seems to assume that the police are always right. Except the Portuguese police that is, who you assume are always wrong imo.

I dont assume the PJ were wrong.. There's proof they didn't understand ylthe evidencce. You don't seem to understand the basics
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 03, 2022, 02:34:43 PM
Well of course there ifs buts and maybes.   That doesn't mean you can rule out an intruder.


One can't be ruled out its true , but the evidence to support it is flimsy at best .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 03, 2022, 02:35:37 PM
I dont assume the PJ were wrong.. There's proof they didn't understand ylthe evidencce. You don't seem to understand the basics

That may well be the case with the BKA too, OG didn't understand it .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 02:47:13 PM
That may well be the case with the BKA too, OG didn't understand it .

you are speculating...there is proof the pj misunderstood the evidence,,,no speculstion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 02:48:11 PM
Hmm, that sounds like a load more whataboutery to me.

I'll tell you what, I'll retract my point about the conspiracy and re-phrase my question. Since that was the only objection you raised, I'm sure you'll now have no issue in addressing the points I posed. 8((()*/


Point me to another similar case where you can draw a parralel of someone staging an abduction to cover up an accidental death.

What is the motive?

Tell me what other evidence you think we should have seen if an abduction did take place?

What other evidence is "normally" found in abduction cases to prove an abduction occurred (assuming there's no eye-witness to the crime itself)?

Whataboutery? My points are all taken from the official files; in particular from the witness's statements. They were posted in answer to various claims made by you and they show that your claims weren't facts, they were opinions.

Whataboutery would be if I fell for your distraction and gave you my opinion on what is evidence of abduction. Why should I do that when it's obvious none of it would be relevant? What is relevant that no-one can prove an abduction occured; including you imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 03:03:26 PM
The door before nine would have been someone entering bedroom after the McCann's left.   Gerry put the door back how they had left it.   Then when Gerry left,  intruder takes Madeleine and leaves,  the door is open wider again when he leaves.

So when Matt got there it was partly open;

it wasn't flat back against the wall, because that would have looked odd, it was just sort of halfway open
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

According to Kate, at 10pm;

the door to her children's bedroom was completely open
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Do you think they were describing the same amount of openness?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 03:12:36 PM
Neither Tannerman or Smithman were described to be wearing gloves .
That means nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 03:14:19 PM
Whataboutery? My points are all taken from the official files; in particular from the witness's statements. They were posted in answer to various claims made by you and they show that your claims weren't facts, they were opinions.

Whataboutery would be if I fell for your distraction and gave you my opinion on what is evidence of abduction. Why should I do that when it's obvious none of it would be relevant? What is relevant that no-one can prove an abduction occured; including you imo.
How about you tell us what was evidence of abduction in the Cleo Smith case? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 03:17:56 PM
So when Matt got there it was partly open;

it wasn't flat back against the wall, because that would have looked odd, it was just sort of halfway open
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

According to Kate, at 10pm;

the door to her children's bedroom was completely open
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Do you think they were describing the same amount of openness?
Maybe yes.  Maybe one of them remembered wrong.  Maybe both of them remembered wrong.  Maybe their interpretation of  what constitutes a fully open door differs by a matter of 20 to 30 degrees.  Maybe something was lost in translation.  The least plausible explanation is that one or both of them were deliberately lying about the exact degree of openness of the door.  Why would they do that?  Makes no sense whatosever.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 03, 2022, 03:30:17 PM
The McCanns left Madeleine asleep by half eight,  she was found to be missing at ten.
I said independent.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on March 03, 2022, 03:36:42 PM
Well of course there ifs buts and maybes.   That doesn't mean you can rule out an intruder.

By that argument you can invent anything ans say'well it have been'

Worthless

IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 03:46:28 PM
Whataboutery? My points are all taken from the official files; in particular from the witness's statements. They were posted in answer to various claims made by you and they show that your claims weren't facts, they were opinions.

Whataboutery would be if I fell for your distraction and gave you my opinion on what is evidence of abduction. Why should I do that when it's obvious none of it would be relevant? What is relevant that no-one can prove an abduction occured; including you imo.

Wolters may well be able to.. I'll be surprised if he can't from what he's said
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 03, 2022, 04:30:26 PM
Whataboutery? My points are all taken from the official files; in particular from the witness's statements. They were posted in answer to various claims made by you and they show that your claims weren't facts, they were opinions.

Whataboutery would be if I fell for your distraction and gave you my opinion on what is evidence of abduction. Why should I do that when it's obvious none of it would be relevant? What is relevant that no-one can prove an abduction occured; including you imo.

Whataboutery - the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.

Yet more deflection and changing the topic of argument, all in order to avoid answering questions you know would show your arguments to be flawed.

What "claims" did I present as "facts"? All I did was raise a few examples of where sceptics have often claimed members of the Tapas 7 were lying in order to protect/enforce the McCanns story. I raised them as examples of why sceptics often believe there was collusion among the group to create a false story. Something you didn't like me suggesting when I mentioned the word conspiracy. How does any of what you said in response detract from my point in that regard?

For the sake of moving forward, I then retracted the suggestion of any conspiracy (that you took such issue with), in order that you could go back to answering the original questions I asked. You still refuse to answer them, and the reasons for that are abundantly obvious IMO.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 04:38:19 PM
Whataboutery - the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.

Yet more deflection and changing the topic of argument, all in order to avoid answering questions you know would show your arguments to be flawed.

What "claims" did I present as "facts"? All I did was raise a few examples of where sceptics have often claimed members of the Tapas 7 were lying in order to protect/enforce the McCanns story. I raised them as examples of why sceptics often believe there was collusion among the group to create a false story. Something you didn't like me suggesting when I mentioned the word conspiracy. How does any of what you said in response detract from my point in that regard?

For the sake of moving forward, I then retracted the suggestion of any conspiracy (that you took such issue with), in order that you could go back to answering the original questions I asked. You still refuse to answer them, and the reasons for that are abundantly obvious IMO.
You'd have more chance of success trying to nail jelly to a wall than trying to nail down G-Unit to a straight answer on any of this.  IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 07:21:37 PM
Maybe yes.  Maybe one of them remembered wrong.  Maybe both of them remembered wrong.  Maybe their interpretation of  what constitutes a fully open door differs by a matter of 20 to 30 degrees.  Maybe something was lost in translation.  The least plausible explanation is that one or both of them were deliberately lying about the exact degree of openness of the door.  Why would they do that?  Makes no sense whatosever.

If the door moved again between their visits then it was moved three times that night. If it didn't, the bedroom looked the same during Matt's check as they were during Kate's;

the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

None of which Matt saw, apparently, apart from the door.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 07:40:36 PM
Whataboutery - the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.

Yet more deflection and changing the topic of argument, all in order to avoid answering questions you know would show your arguments to be flawed.

What "claims" did I present as "facts"? All I did was raise a few examples of where sceptics have often claimed members of the Tapas 7 were lying in order to protect/enforce the McCanns story. I raised them as examples of why sceptics often believe there was collusion among the group to create a false story. Something you didn't like me suggesting when I mentioned the word conspiracy. How does any of what you said in response detract from my point in that regard?

For the sake of moving forward, I then retracted the suggestion of any conspiracy (that you took such issue with), in order that you could go back to answering the original questions I asked. You still refuse to answer them, and the reasons for that are abundantly obvious IMO.

You want me to speculate by presenting a theory concerning what happened on 3rd May, but I prefer not to do that because I don't have enough information. I feel under no obligation to explain to you why others say what they say. I can, and do explain just why some of the holiday group's testimony raises more questions than answers in MY mind.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 03, 2022, 07:48:25 PM
You want me to speculate by presenting a theory concerning what happened on 3rd May, but I prefer not to do that because I don't have enough information. I feel under no obligation to explain to you why others say what they say. I can, and do explain just why some of the holiday group's testimony raises more questions than answers in MY mind.

But.. You just don't know accurate those testimonys are.. You are making an assumption they are accurate
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 07:55:04 PM
If the door moved again between their visits then it was moved three times that night. If it didn't, the bedroom looked the same during Matt's check as they were during Kate's;

the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

None of which Matt saw, apparently, apart from the door.
aand this is important because…?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 07:56:09 PM
You want me to speculate by presenting a theory concerning what happened on 3rd May, but I prefer not to do that because I don't have enough information. I feel under no obligation to explain to you why others say what they say. I can, and do explain just why some of the holiday group's testimony raises more questions than answers in MY mind.
But you do know Madeleine wasn’t abducted by a stranger, right?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 03, 2022, 09:28:03 PM
You want me to speculate by presenting a theory concerning what happened on 3rd May, but I prefer not to do that because I don't have enough information. I feel under no obligation to explain to you why others say what they say. I can, and do explain just why some of the holiday group's testimony raises more questions than answers in MY mind.

It's pretty clear you don't want to present a theory. You appear to want to hide behind a fog of doubts and what-abouts. Micro-analysing and proclaiming any perceived discrepancy in the files, just so long as it reinforces the sceptics argument. But without having to commit to any specific "view" that you yourself might have to then defend.

I've no issue in people pointing out apparent discrepancies. But if you want to claim to be objective and impartial, you might consider trying to look for, and comment to that effect, possible explanations from both sides of the fence. Not every discrepancy is a lie.

And for the record, only one of the four questions I asked you required you to speculate upon a theory to answer it, that one was - "what is the motive?". The other three did not require any speculation. But IMO you've made it quite obvious that you don't want to address those uncomfortable flaws in your argument either.

So I won't hold my breath for an answer. Think I'll have a go at nailing this jelly to the wall instead... perhaps I'll try the 'Amaral' solution-to-everything and stick it in the freezer first. That might work!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 03, 2022, 10:14:33 PM
It's pretty clear you don't want to present a theory. You appear to want to hide behind a fog of doubts and what-abouts. Micro-analysing and proclaiming any perceived discrepancy in the files, just so long as it reinforces the sceptics argument. But without having to commit to any specific "view" that you yourself might have to then defend.

I've no issue in people pointing out apparent discrepancies. But if you want to claim to be objective and impartial, you might consider trying to look for, and comment to that effect, possible explanations from both sides of the fence. Not every discrepancy is a lie.

And for the record, only one of the four questions I asked you required you to speculate upon a theory to answer it, that one was - "what is the motive?". The other three did not require any speculation. But IMO you've made it quite obvious that you don't want to address those uncomfortable flaws in your argument either.

So I won't hold my breath for an answer. Think I'll have a go at nailing this jelly to the wall instead... perhaps I'll try the 'Amaral' solution-to-everything and stick it in the freezer first. That might work!

If there was a death (and I don't know if there was) and a body was hidden then I can only assume the body couldn't be surrendered to the authorities.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 10:36:56 PM
You want me to speculate by presenting a theory concerning what happened on 3rd May, but I prefer not to do that because I don't have enough information. I feel under no obligation to explain to you why others say what they say. I can, and do explain just why some of the holiday group's testimony raises more questions than answers in MY mind.
Do you think Amaral had enough information to present a theory?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 03, 2022, 10:43:08 PM
I do find it amusing when sceptics constantly bandy around that phrase - "No evidence of an abduction!" - like they think this is some brilliant point they are making. It isn't, and what's funnier is that most of them don't even realise how weak their point actually is.

First of all, the statement itself is untrue. There IS evidence of an abduction. They are just choosing to believe that the people providing the supporting accounts of what was observed are all lying. The sceptics proclaim this as a "given", despite there being absolutely no proof to back the assertion up.

On the secondary count, the phrase offers a flawed promise. As much as some people will claim "I'm only pointing it out", the connotation of there being "no evidence" is deliberate. It is intended to imply that the prospect of an abduction taking place is therefore vastly dimished from what it otherwise should/would be when an abduction genuinely occurs. But the reality is, unless a witness actually sees an abduction taking place, there is rarely any "evidence" that a person has been abducted. By it's very nature, it's one of those crimes that leaves little evidential trace.

Someone is there one minute, then they are not. How can you "prove" they've been adbucted, if nobody saw it happen? The victim is not there to give an account of what happened to them, so what are you left with to find in terms of "evidence" of an abduction?

I'll open the question up to any sceptic who is willing to offer up their thoughts. "IF" Madeleine WAS abducted from 5A by someone like CB, what other evidence would you "expect" to have been found to indicate this is indeed what happened to her?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 03, 2022, 10:47:55 PM
^^^a question I have asked several times but unsurprisingly never received a sensible answer. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on March 03, 2022, 11:32:24 PM
So when Matt got there it was partly open;

it wasn't flat back against the wall, because that would have looked odd, it was just sort of halfway open
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

According to Kate, at 10pm;

the door to her children's bedroom was completely open
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Do you think they were describing the same amount of openness?

There is a wardrobe immediately next to the open door of Madeleines bedroom.  Most serviceable wardrobes are 2 feet deep, altho they can be a tadge less deep for clothes to hang serviceably.  Upon entering, if wished, the door will open fully back against the RH wall.   

However there is no benefit from doing this because the pertinent gap for one to walk through is the distance between the LH part of the door frame and the rigid corner of the wardrobeo.   I doubt that the door was rarely open much more than the 45* - 60*  that gave full access

My guess is that normally the door would only be opened to about the corner of the wardrobe, because that was easiest and gave just as much space to walk though as if the door was fully opened to the RH wall.

IMO that 45* - 60* opening could easily be thought of as fully open by someone living there.  To someone visiting for maybe the first time it probably would appear part open because he couldn't see the wardrobe.   He didn't enter the room to see past the  part open door.


So to be honest, do we truly know what was meant?

-  by Matt when he said *halfway* open?
-  by Kate when she said *completely* open?


Without knowing, it is pointless arguing.


Please note:   
There isn't a plan that I would like to trust that gives the exact sizes and positions of the door, wall and corner of the wardrobe.  I have used my best guestimation of the likely open angle of the door for maximum clear width of entrance
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on March 04, 2022, 12:25:57 AM
I said independent.

This isn't exact, but it gives guidance.  It reinforces The Mccann statements as well.


 2941 to 2944 Witness testimony of Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira (bar worker who served McCanns)

11 Processos Vol XI Pages 2941 to 2944



[snip]

Questioned, he affirms that the group would normally consist of nine people (including Madeleines parents), and would normally dine around 20H30 and 20H40. They would not all arrive at once and before they all arrived, some would have cocktails. On the day of the disappearance, all were seated at the table between 20H35 and 20H45. He remembers them arriving as usual.  [/snip]



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Also Stephen Cartenter affirms the rough time of arrival a the Tapas restaurant   Taken from Steel Magnolia.     



[- snip]
:3-Cartas Rogatorias File 3 Pages 31 - 56

RESTRICTED
Statement number S87B
Printed version of recorded documentSurname: CARPENTER
First name. STEPHEN



At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of tennis amongst other things, I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children. We did not talk about the system for checking the children or the fact that they had left them alone in the apartment, it was only later upon hearing the news that I realised that they had left the children alone in the apartment and that they were regularly checking to see if they were all right.  [-/snip]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 04, 2022, 07:44:21 AM
Do you think Amaral had enough information to present a theory?

The McCanns presented a theory and he presented a different one. Obviously they all thought they had enough information to do so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 04, 2022, 07:48:10 AM
This isn't exact, but it gives guidance.  It reinforces The Mccann statements as well.


 2941 to 2944 Witness testimony of Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira (bar worker who served McCanns)

11 Processos Vol XI Pages 2941 to 2944



[snip]

Questioned, he affirms that the group would normally consist of nine people (including Madeleines parents), and would normally dine around 20H30 and 20H40. They would not all arrive at once and before they all arrived, some would have cocktails. On the day of the disappearance, all were seated at the table between 20H35 and 20H45. He remembers them arriving as usual.  [/snip]



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Also Stephen Cartenter affirms the rough time of arrival a the Tapas restaurant   Taken from Steel Magnolia.     



[- snip]
:3-Cartas Rogatorias File 3 Pages 31 - 56

RESTRICTED
Statement number S87B
Printed version of recorded documentSurname: CARPENTER
First name. STEPHEN



At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of tennis amongst other things, I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children. We did not talk about the system for checking the children or the fact that they had left them alone in the apartment, it was only later upon hearing the news that I realised that they had left the children alone in the apartment and that they were regularly checking to see if they were all right.  [-/snip]

I notice neither of them support the group's statements about their arrival times.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2022, 08:00:57 AM
I notice neither of them support the group's statements about their arrival times.

Do you know what ~ you are basing your prejudice on events which happened fifteen years ago and an awful lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then.

Amaral has admitted that mistakes were made by the PJ (heaven forfend he should note his role in that as co-ordinator ONLY the PJ) who did not look assiduously enough for Brueckner.  While saying he had been eliminated at the time.  T'would be interesting to see exactly how and why they did that.
Maybe the theme for another book therein.

There was NO evidence against Madeleine's parents ~ unless you can indicate some ~ I suggest you give the slurs against them a rest.
Any one who matters is concentrating on the suspect against whom there is evidence and whose innocence Amaral is supporting up to the hilt and beyond.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 08:04:21 AM
The McCanns presented a theory and he presented a different one. Obviously they all thought they had enough information to do so.
But you think they were both wrong to have any opinion on what happened?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 09:09:32 AM
I notice neither of them support the group's statements about their arrival times.
It supports the view that Gerry and Kate were at the table by 8.30pm, do you find this in any way suspicious?  Is it your expectation that a dozen different statements from a dozen different people should all give precise and corroborative timings on all events?  If so - that's an unreasonable expectation in my view, if not, then it's hardly worth remarking on in my view.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 04, 2022, 09:47:12 AM
It supports the view that Gerry and Kate were at the table by 8.30pm, do you find this in any way suspicious?  Is it your expectation that a dozen different statements from a dozen different people should all give precise and corroborative timings on all events?  If so - that's an unreasonable expectation in my view, if not, then it's hardly worth remarking on in my view.

Well said. It annoys me when people nitpick over exact times, they fail to grasp the reality of how hard this is to do or how common timing discrepancies are when police take witness accounts. People aren't staring at their watches making a mental note of the exact time every event of their day happens. If you try wrting down your timings for what you did yesterday you'll see how hard this is to do, how much guesswork and estimation is involved. Try recalling every time you went to the toilet yesterday and the exact times. It's nonsense, and yet some people seem to think that not only should everyone in this case be able to accurately recount the times of everything they did, but also the times of what other people were doing things. Yes, you may recall some times fairly accurately if there is a specific reason for you to recall knowing the time when that event took place, but otherwise it is mainly estimation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 09:55:58 AM
Well said. It annoys me when people nitpick over exact times, they fail to grasp the reality of how hard this is to do or how common timing discrepancies are when police take witness accounts. People aren't staring at their watches making a mental note of the exact time every event of their day happens. If you try wrting down your timings for what you did yesterday you'll see how hard this is to do, how much guesswork and estimation is involved. Try recalling every time you went to the toilet yesterday and the exact times. It's nonsense, and yet some people seem to think that not only should everyone in this case be able to accurately recount the times of everything they did, but also the times of what other people were doing things. Yes, you may recall some times fairly accurately if there is a specific reason for you to recall knowing the time when that event took place, but otherwise it is mainly estimation.
The longer you stick around this forum the more aghast you will be at some of the logic employed by seemingly intelligent people.  One, for example, cites the statement of the Tapas Chef that the group had all left the table by 9.20pm that night as the most believable of all the witness statements about the timing of this incident  because "he had no reason to lie".   Bonkers logic. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 04, 2022, 11:08:24 AM
Well said. It annoys me when people nitpick over exact times, they fail to grasp the reality of how hard this is to do or how common timing discrepancies are when police take witness accounts. People aren't staring at their watches making a mental note of the exact time every event of their day happens. If you try wrting down your timings for what you did yesterday you'll see how hard this is to do, how much guesswork and estimation is involved. Try recalling every time you went to the toilet yesterday and the exact times. It's nonsense, and yet some people seem to think that not only should everyone in this case be able to accurately recount the times of everything they did, but also the times of what other people were doing things. Yes, you may recall some times fairly accurately if there is a specific reason for you to recall knowing the time when that event took place, but otherwise it is mainly estimation.

The people who decided to 'nitpick' over times were the Tapas group. Almost immediately they concentrated on producing a group timeline, followed by another a few days later. Neither of them are definitive because individual statements don't match them.

Why do you think the waiter and Steve Carpenter didn't notice how late the Paynes and Dianne Webster were that night? According to the group they were not all seated by 8.45 (the waiter) or 8.30 (Carpenter), they weren't all seated until 9pm. Despite the Carpenter's table being adjacent to the group's table he never noticed those three empty chairs. It seems they and the waiter would have given the Paynes an alibi if they had needed one, even though they weren't there.

So who didn't recall the true scenario? The witnesses or the group or both? If we can't be sure about their time of arrival, we can't be sure about the times of the checks or of the alarm being raised.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 04, 2022, 11:13:22 AM
The longer you stick around this forum the more aghast you will be at some of the logic employed by seemingly intelligent people.  One, for example, cites the statement of the Tapas Chef that the group had all left the table by 9.20pm that night as the most believable of all the witness statements about the timing of this incident  because "he had no reason to lie".   Bonkers logic.

That's definitely something the PJ overlooked. There were various statements that cast doubt upon the alarm being raised at 10pm. More work should have been done around that possibility imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 11:18:34 AM
That's definitely something the PJ overlooked. There were various statements that cast doubt upon the alarm being raised at 10pm. More work should have been done around that possibility imo.
Thanks for identifying yourself as the poster who thinks the Tapas Chef witness statement is the most reliable because "he had no reason to lie".  LOL.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 11:20:43 AM
The people who decided to 'nitpick' over times were the Tapas group. Almost immediately they concentrated on producing a group timeline, followed by another a few days later. Neither of them are definitive because individual statements don't match them.

Why do you think the waiter and Steve Carpenter didn't notice how late the Paynes and Dianne Webster were that night? According to the group they were not all seated by 8.45 (the waiter) or 8.30 (Carpenter), they weren't all seated until 9pm. Despite the Carpenter's table being adjacent to the group's table he never noticed those three empty chairs. It seems they and the waiter would have given the Paynes an alibi if they had needed one, even though they weren't there.

So who didn't recall the true scenario? The witnesses or the group or both? If we can't be sure about their time of arrival, we can't be sure about the times of the checks or of the alarm being raised.

You think the Paynes and Mrs Webster were in need of an alibi for the period 8.30pm to 8.45pm?!  *%87
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 04, 2022, 11:49:31 AM
The people who decided to 'nitpick' over times were the Tapas group. Almost immediately they concentrated on producing a group timeline, followed by another a few days later. Neither of them are definitive because individual statements don't match them.

Why do you think the waiter and Steve Carpenter didn't notice how late the Paynes and Dianne Webster were that night? According to the group they were not all seated by 8.45 (the waiter) or 8.30 (Carpenter), they weren't all seated until 9pm. Despite the Carpenter's table being adjacent to the group's table he never noticed those three empty chairs. It seems they and the waiter would have given the Paynes an alibi if they had needed one, even though they weren't there.

So who didn't recall the true scenario? The witnesses or the group or both? If we can't be sure about their time of arrival, we can't be sure about the times of the checks or of the alarm being raised.

Nope. That's not what nitpicking is. You really need to start looking words up in the dictionary before you post as you don't seem to know what they mean.

Nitpicking - fussy or pedantic fault-finding.

The Tapas group were just trying to get the timings as accurate as possible because they knew how significant it might be to the case. By collaborative effort, you can increase the accuracy of the timeline better than as individuals. I'm sure you find this activity of collaborating highly suspicious, but really it was actually a very sensible thing to do. If person X cannot recall the exact time they did something, but they do recall it was about 5 minutes after person Y did something, then it is possible to put a more accurate time on person X's event if person Y does know what time they did their thing. See how that works?

Yes it can work the other way too, so if person Y is incorrect about their time, it can knock on the accuracy of X's time. But when you have so many people helping to verify the various comings and goings, because they were all there and interacting, the accuracy of the timings DOES increase moreso than if recounted individually.

Do I think the times given by the Tapas group are 100% spot on? No. But just because a bar worker thinks everyone was sat by 8.45, it does not make his timing more reliable just because he has "no reason to lie".  I very much doubt he was there with a stopwatch, watching and counting the group members like a hawk.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 04, 2022, 12:08:39 PM
Nope. That's not what nitpicking is. You really need to start looking words up in the dictionary before you post as you don't seem to know what they mean.

Nitpicking - fussy or pedantic fault-finding.

The Tapas group were just trying to get the timings as accurate as possible because they knew how significant it might be to the case. By collaborative effort, you can increase the accuracy of the timeline better than as individuals. I'm sure you find this activity of collaborating highly suspicious, but really it was actually a very sensible thing to do. If person X cannot recall the exact time they did something, but they do recall it was about 5 minutes after person Y did something, then it is possible to put a more accurate time on person X's event if person Y does know what time they did their thing. See how that works?

Yes it can work the other way too, so if person Y is incorrect about their time, it can knock on the accuracy of X's time. But when you have so many people helping to verify the various comings and goings, because they were all there and interacting, the accuracy of the timings DOES increase moreso than if recounted individually.

Do I think the times given by the Tapas group are 100% spot on? No. But just because a bar worker thinks everyone was sat by 8.45, it does not make his timing more reliable just because he has "no reason to lie".  I very much doubt he was there with a stopwatch, watching and counting the group members like a hawk.

In truth the timeline was never something that could be relied on, but so many did. It was used to give Gerry McCann an alibi, for example.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 12:10:40 PM
In truth the timeline was never something that could be relied on, but so many did. It was used to give Gerry McCann an alibi, for example.
So you DO believe the entire group conspired to give Gerry an alibi? And yet you claim you don't know what happened that night.  Slight contradiction there!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 04, 2022, 12:59:05 PM
So you DO believe the entire group conspired to give Gerry an alibi? And yet you claim you don't know what happened that night.  Slight contradiction there!

It was used by others to claim that Gerry had an alibi. I'm not assuming they conspired to create the time the alarm was raised, but they clearly collaborated on the timeline. Collaboration can result in those who are unsure agreeing with those who are sure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 01:06:29 PM
It was used by others to claim that Gerry had an alibi. I'm not assuming they conspired to create the time the alarm was raised, but they clearly collaborated on the timeline. Collaboration can result in those who are unsure agreeing with those who are sure.
In order for Gerry to have needed an alibi it would have been necessary for the recollections of everyone involved to have been out by about a minimum of half an hour (except the Tapas Chef, who "had no reason to lie" but who really should have been concentrating on cooking the steaks rather than logging the comings and goings of the Tapas group IMO). 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 04, 2022, 01:35:42 PM
It was used by others to claim that Gerry had an alibi. I'm not assuming they conspired to create the time the alarm was raised, but they clearly collaborated on the timeline. Collaboration can result in those who are unsure agreeing with those who are sure.

Oh come on. If you want to claim the timeline provided an alibi for Gerry, then the insinuation is that Gerry left the rest of the group for a length of time in order to get rid of a body. How can you then claim this does not necesarily constitute a conspiracy by the group? What is your logic here, that nobody among the rest of the group noticed that he went AWOL for a length of time, and they were just all duped into agreeing a timeline that just happened to give Gerry an alibi?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 04, 2022, 01:47:52 PM
In order for Gerry to have needed an alibi it would have been necessary for the recollections of everyone involved to have been out by about a minimum of half an hour (except the Tapas Chef, who "had no reason to lie" but who really should have been concentrating on cooking the steaks rather than logging the comings and goings of the Tapas group IMO).

Fifteen minutes, not half an hour.

The person you think was the Tapas Chef wasn't. His role was not to cook steaks (or anything else) for the Tapas restaurant customers. So your disparaging comment doesn't work, I'm afraid.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 04, 2022, 01:55:46 PM
Oh come on. If you want to claim the timeline provided an alibi for Gerry, then the insinuation is that Gerry left the rest of the group for a length of time in order to get rid of a body. How can you then claim this does not necesarily constitute a conspiracy by the group? What is your logic here, that nobody among the rest of the group noticed that he went AWOL for a length of time, and they were just all duped into agreeing a timeline that just happened to give Gerry an alibi?

Try to imagine the alarm was raised at 9.45. Everybody ran to 5A (except Dianne Webster). Then what? According to
a UK analyst;

In the confusion following the disappearance of Madeleine it would be possible that one of the men or Fiona Payne 'escaped' to join in the searches again later.

Analyst 7792 Eaton
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 01:57:41 PM
It was used by others to claim that Gerry had an alibi. I'm not assuming they conspired to create the time the alarm was raised, but they clearly collaborated on the timeline. Collaboration can result in those who are unsure agreeing with those who are sure.
Situation:  Gerry knows he's been seen by numerous people carrying the corpse of his dead child through town, the same child who, when standing before the world's camera 24 hours later, he will claim was abducted.  He knows the witnesses will put the time of the sighting at around 10pm, so on his return from dumping the body a few minutes after 10pm (which he managed to do by leaving the rest of the group frantically searching and retrieving the body without anyone seeing) he sits down at the behest of one of the group who is drawing up the timeline and insists that the alarm was raised at 10pm even though that would probably make no sense to the rest of the group as they would have had a sense that it was much earlier than that but nevertheless, eager to fall into line with the Alpha Male they all concur with him.  And then, strike me down!  A few days later when giving his statement to the police he puts the time of the alarm at around 10.15pm totally destroying the alibi he cunningly coerced the rest of the group to agree with - what the devil is this man playing at?!  Is he mad do you think?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 01:58:38 PM
Try to imagine the alarm was raised at 9.45. Everybody ran to 5A (except Dianne Webster). Then what? According to
a UK analyst;

In the confusion following the disappearance of Madeleine it would be possible that one of the men or Fiona Payne 'escaped' to join in the searches again later.

Analyst 7792 Eaton
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm
Hang on - the only reliable witness was the chef, remember?  He put the alarm at prior to 9.25pm.  Have you changed your mind about his reliability now?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 03:07:05 PM
Fifteen minutes, not half an hour.

The person you think was the Tapas Chef wasn't. His role was not to cook steaks (or anything else) for the Tapas restaurant customers. So your disparaging comment doesn't work, I'm afraid.
What was his role?  Did he not say that everyone had left the table by 9.25pm?  10pm minus 9.25pm is 35 minutes, unless my maths is incorrect too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 03:45:48 PM
Fifteen minutes, not half an hour.

The person you think was the Tapas Chef wasn't. His role was not to cook steaks (or anything else) for the Tapas restaurant customers. So your disparaging comment doesn't work, I'm afraid.
This is the person whose testimony I am referring to:
Arlindo Epifanio Goncalves Fernandes Peleja

Date/Time: 2007/05/08 21H10
Executive Chef
The witness who had no reason to lie claimed everyone had vacated the table by 9.40pm, in direct contradiction with the waiter (who had no reason to lie either) who claimed that he saw Dianne Webster sat at the table between 10pm and 10.30pm.  So there we have two witnesses, with no reason to lie, yet one of them is CLEARLY LYING (as in your world it would seem witnesses cannot be mistaken).  So does this mean one of these individuals is in cahoots with the Tapas Group? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2022, 03:55:17 PM
Try to imagine the alarm was raised at 9.45. Everybody ran to 5A (except Dianne Webster). Then what? According to
a UK analyst;

In the confusion following the disappearance of Madeleine it would be possible that one of the men or Fiona Payne 'escaped' to join in the searches again later.

Analyst 7792 Eaton
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm

Try to imagine.. Whats the point of all this speculation
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 04, 2022, 06:01:40 PM
Try to imagine.. Whats the point of all this speculation

It makes a change from speculating about Brueckner.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2022, 06:44:39 PM
It makes a change from speculating about Brueckner.

Breukner is the current prime suspect who.. Based on their evidence.. The BKA say is 100% responsible for Maddies murder. The McCanns are not suspects.... Can you spot the difference
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 06:51:00 PM
Six unanswered questions put to G-Unit this afternoon and counting….
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 04, 2022, 07:30:27 PM
Six unanswered questions put to G-Unit this afternoon and counting….

Is it in the forum's terms and conditions? Thou must answer questions? If I were you I'd stop asking them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2022, 08:06:56 PM
Is it in the forum's terms and conditions? Thou must answer questions? If I were you I'd stop asking them.
It would certsinly suit you if I didn’t ask you questions, that I do know.  You are obviously under no obligation to answer any question, especially ones that are obviously too difficult for you to answer, but it would be nice if  you actually asked yourself those questions and really thought about the answers,  not dismiss them simply because it was me who asked them.  In doing so you will hopefully see that you have not been thinking things through logically or consistently, for example statements from people with “no reason to lie”  are just as likely to be inconsistent as statements from people you believe have a reason to lie, therefore those inconsistencies may actually not be lies at all, but honest mistakes or poor recall.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 04, 2022, 08:23:28 PM
Try to imagine the alarm was raised at 9.45. Everybody ran to 5A (except Dianne Webster). Then what? According to
a UK analyst;

In the confusion following the disappearance of Madeleine it would be possible that one of the men or Fiona Payne 'escaped' to join in the searches again later.

Analyst 7792 Eaton
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm

A couple of days ago (although it does feel like a LOT longer) when I dared to suggest that it was possible the PJ missed evidence that was there to be found, you aimed the following barb at me:

"There's a lot of 'what if' and 'perhaps' used because the evidence doesn't support some people's opinions imo."

And yet here you are now, asking people to consider that an entire group of people were unwittingly duped by Gerry into giving him an alibi. Conning them all into foresaking their own perception of time and convincing them that everything happened 15 minutes later than it actually did. Meanwhile (apparently) praying that anyone else in the Tapas who heard Kate screaming at 21:45 would not be able to recall what time this was either. Along with anyone else who happened to see the group searching and shouting 'Madeleine' before 10 o clock, while he sneakily slipped away unnoticed by all, in order to whisk his daughter's corpse through town.

Good one. 8((()*/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 04, 2022, 10:27:48 PM
Breukner is the current prime suspect who.. Based on their evidence.. The BKA say is 100% responsible for Maddies murder. The McCanns are not suspects.... Can you spot the difference

Indeed. Here's some other differences in case anyone is forgetting:

- CB had a motive to take Madeleine, the McCanns didn't.

- CB has confessed to being involved in her disappearance, the McCanns haven't.

- CB has a track record of abusing little girls, the McCanns don't.

- CB is an expert at breaking into holiday apartments and leaving no trace, the McCanns aren't.

- CB is a convicted rapist, thief and child abuser. The McCanns have no criminal records.

- CB has yet to explicitly deny that he killed Madeleine. The McCanns have.

- CB has yet to provide an alibi for the time of the crime, the McCanns have.

- CB's closest friends and associates believe he is guilty, not one of the McCann's friends or associates believe they are guilty.

- CB has been publicly accused of murder by the BKA following an intensive 4 year investigation in which the PJ and SY are also assisting to gather evidence against him. The McCanns are not currently suspected of involvement by any police force.

I'm sure there's plenty more, but its pointless pointing it out to those who refuse to see.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2022, 07:01:39 AM
A couple of days ago (although it does feel like a LOT longer) when I dared to suggest that it was possible the PJ missed evidence that was there to be found, you aimed the following barb at me:

"There's a lot of 'what if' and 'perhaps' used because the evidence doesn't support some people's opinions imo."

And yet here you are now, asking people to consider that an entire group of people were unwittingly duped by Gerry into giving him an alibi. Conning them all into foresaking their own perception of time and convincing them that everything happened 15 minutes later than it actually did. Meanwhile (apparently) praying that anyone else in the Tapas who heard Kate screaming at 21:45 would not be able to recall what time this was either. Along with anyone else who happened to see the group searching and shouting 'Madeleine' before 10 o clock, while he sneakily slipped away unnoticed by all, in order to whisk his daughter's corpse through town.

Good one. 8((()*/

The difference is that you are suggesting that something might have existed even though you have no evidence that it did. I'm discussing something for which there is evidence; that Kate's check happened before 10pm. Your only explanation seems to be that no-one was able to remember the times accurately. As that applies to the T9 too, why should their times be accepted as the correct ones?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 05, 2022, 07:10:42 AM
The difference is that you are suggesting that something might have existed even though you have no evidence that it did. I'm discussing something for which there is evidence; that Kate's check happened before 10pm. Your only explanation seems to be that no-one was able to remember the times accurately. As that applies to the T9 too, why should their times be accepted as the correct ones?
There is also evidence from independent witnesses which contradicts the evidence you are referring to and which tends to support the idea that the check happenrd around 10pm.  That was the conclusion of the PJ, and yes, they weren’t the brightest bulbs but surely they couldn’t have been THAT incompetent in order to arrive at such a conclusion?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2022, 07:13:16 AM
Indeed. Here's some other differences in case anyone is forgetting:

- CB had a motive to take Madeleine, the McCanns didn't.

- CB has confessed to being involved in her disappearance, the McCanns haven't.

- CB has a track record of abusing little girls, the McCanns don't.

- CB is an expert at breaking into holiday apartments and leaving no trace, the McCanns aren't.

- CB is a convicted rapist, thief and child abuser. The McCanns have no criminal records.

- CB has yet to explicitly deny that he killed Madeleine. The McCanns have.

- CB has yet to provide an alibi for the time of the crime, the McCanns have.

- CB's closest friends and associates believe he is guilty, not one of the McCann's friends or associates believe they are guilty.

- CB has been publicly accused of murder by the BKA following an intensive 4 year investigation in which the PJ and SY are also assisting to gather evidence against him. The McCanns are not currently suspected of involvement by any police force.

I'm sure there's plenty more, but its pointless pointing it out to those who refuse to see.

Yet Amaral continues to broadcast the most heinous slurs possible directly at Madeleine's parents while assuring all who will listen to him and read his book that Brueckner is being set up as a patsy for the crime against Madeleine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2022, 07:22:53 AM
The difference is that you are suggesting that something might have existed even though you have no evidence that it did. I'm discussing something for which there is evidence; that Kate's check happened before 10pm. Your only explanation seems to be that no-one was able to remember the times accurately. As that applies to the T9 too, why should their times be accepted as the correct ones?

We know that Amaral fabricated evidence both about Brueckner's appearance at the time and the vehicle he was driving.

I think it would be more pertinent to the topic of the thread were you to cast your intellect in that direction rather than dredging up information from files translated by individuals who also had an agenda normal people cannot fathom.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2022, 07:56:14 AM
Indeed. Here's some other differences in case anyone is forgetting:

- CB had a motive to take Madeleine, the McCanns didn't.

- CB has confessed to being involved in her disappearance, the McCanns haven't.

- CB has a track record of abusing little girls, the McCanns don't.

- CB is an expert at breaking into holiday apartments and leaving no trace, the McCanns aren't.

- CB is a convicted rapist, thief and child abuser. The McCanns have no criminal records.

- CB has yet to explicitly deny that he killed Madeleine. The McCanns have.

- CB has yet to provide an alibi for the time of the crime, the McCanns have.

- CB's closest friends and associates believe he is guilty, not one of the McCann's friends or associates believe they are guilty.

- CB has been publicly accused of murder by the BKA following an intensive 4 year investigation in which the PJ and SY are also assisting to gather evidence against him. The McCanns are not currently suspected of involvement by any police force.

I'm sure there's plenty more, but its pointless pointing it out to those who refuse to see.

Attractive suspect though he is, CB hasn't been arrested or charged, just subjected to trial by media for almost two years. How much longer will the Germans fish for evidence against the man Amaral called a 'patsy'?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2022, 08:07:11 AM
Attractive suspect though he is, CB hasn't been arrested or charged, just subjected to trial by media for almost two years. How much longer will the Germans fish for evidence against the man Amaral called a 'patsy'?

Amaral.. You.. and other sceptics have subjected the McCanns to trial by media for 15 years.. Can you not see the hypocrisy in your posts. Can you not see that CB is not a scapegoat
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 05, 2022, 08:10:49 AM
Attractive suspect though he is, CB hasn't been arrested or charged, just subjected to trial by media for almost two years. How much longer will the Germans fish for evidence against the man Amaral called a 'patsy'?
Amaral’s opinion has no value as he has demonstrably lied to support CB against the allegations.IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2022, 10:07:26 AM
We know that Amaral fabricated evidence both about Brueckner's appearance at the time and the vehicle he was driving.

I think it would be more pertinent to the topic of the thread were you to cast your intellect in that direction rather than dredging up information from files translated by individuals who also had an agenda normal people cannot fathom.

Thank you for sharing your opinion of what I should be discussing. I don't know what there is to say about Amaral's claims concerning Brueckner, apart from agreeing that he appears to have got it wrong.

You seem to think the evidence in the PJ files can be ignored because the investigations have 'moved on'. I don't share that opinion. That evidence was gathered at the time from people who were there, and any present investigation needs to take account of it imo.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 05, 2022, 10:37:02 AM
Attractive suspect though he is, CB hasn't been arrested or charged, just subjected to trial by media for almost two years. How much longer will the Germans fish for evidence against the man Amaral called a 'patsy'?

Oh well, if Amaral "says" he's a patsy, then it must be true. Amaral has absolutely no motive to lie about that, does he? I'm sure Amaral will be thrilled should CB be convicted of this crime, proving once and for all that his slurs against the parents over the last 15 years were totally unwarranted.

Amaral also believes CB has been fitted up for the rape conviction for which he is currently serving. He has suggested that the two witnesses who found CB's rape videos, made it all up. He has suggested the victim herself, invented the rape. He has suggested that the hair they matched to CB was not the hair they found in the house. That the evidence bag was tampered with during the chain of custody and a switch took place.

The man is a self-serving liar devoid of morals, integrity, competence and logic. I pity those who hold his opinion in high regard.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 05, 2022, 10:51:46 AM
The difference is that you are suggesting that something might have existed even though you have no evidence that it did. I'm discussing something for which there is evidence; that Kate's check happened before 10pm. Your only explanation seems to be that no-one was able to remember the times accurately. As that applies to the T9 too, why should their times be accepted as the correct ones?

Again, that's a false representation of what I was saying. My point was that the investigation was nowhere near as thorough as the sceptics like to make out. Pointing to there being "no evidence" of this, that and the other when in reality, what they mean is "it's not in the PJ files". Which is not the same as saying it didn't exist.

For example, we know there was CCTV coverage that was not collected. Amaral himself is convinced that the camera outside the Estrela Da Luz would have captured Smithman. Just to think, if he's right and someone more competent was in charge of the investigation, they might have retrieved that tape and solved this case 15 years ago.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2022, 11:32:34 AM
Again, that's a false representation of what I was saying. My point was that the investigation was nowhere near as thorough as the sceptics like to make out. Pointing to there being "no evidence" of this, that and the other when in reality, what they mean is "it's not in the PJ files". Which is not the same as saying it didn't exist.

For example, we know there was CCTV coverage that was not collected. Amaral himself is convinced that the camera outside the Estrela Da Luz would have captured Smithman. Just to think, if he's right and someone more competent was in charge of the investigation, they might have retrieved that tape and solved this case 15 years ago.

You are again doing what you deny doing. If any evidence was missed then it doesn't exist, so no matter how much you speculate you're wasting your time. I prefer to examine the evidence which does exist.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 05, 2022, 12:04:25 PM
You are again doing what you deny doing. If any evidence was missed then it doesn't exist, so no matter how much you speculate you're wasting your time. I prefer to examine the evidence which does exist.
We're all wasting our time dear, especially you IMO, as you are stuck in a 2007 rut that you appear to enjoy wallowing in.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2022, 12:55:06 PM
You are again doing what you deny doing. If any evidence was missed then it doesn't exist, so no matter how much you speculate you're wasting your time. I prefer to examine the evidence which does exist.
The evidence that exists has been gone over again and again. It amounts to nothing... Its about time you realised the investigation has moved on. The prime suspect is CB.. The McCanns are not suspects... Wake up

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2022, 01:27:04 PM
Media interest in Brueckner seems to be receding. It looks like they've interviewed anyone and everyone who was willing to speak about Brueckner now. We've learned a lot about the man, but nothing which actually conects him to Madeleine McCann imo. Perhaps the German police have been more successful, but we won't know unless they charge him. Perhaps Amaral was right and they have been trying to prove he did it because his background and proximity seem to fit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2022, 01:43:08 PM
Media interest in Brueckner seems to be receding. It looks like they've interviewed anyone and everyone who was willing to speak about Brueckner now. We've learned a lot about the man, but nothing which actually conects him to Madeleine McCann imo. Perhaps the German police have been more successful, but we won't know unless they charge him. Perhaps Amaral was right and they have been trying to prove he did it because his background and proximity seem to fit.

Welcome to 2022
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 05, 2022, 02:44:53 PM
Media interest in Brueckner seems to be receding. It looks like they've interviewed anyone and everyone who was willing to speak about Brueckner now. We've learned a lot about the man, but nothing which actually conects him to Madeleine McCann imo. Perhaps the German police have been more successful, but we won't know unless they charge him. Perhaps Amaral was right and they have been trying to prove he did it because his background and proximity seem to fit.

I see the much vaunted sleuths are sleuthed out.

Putin to bomb us or CB charged, more likely Putins bombs imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 05, 2022, 03:41:18 PM
I see the much vaunted sleuths are sleuthed out.

Putin to bomb us or CB charged, more likely Putins bombs imo.
Thus spoke the Cheery Harbinger Of Doom.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on March 05, 2022, 04:00:14 PM
Thus spoke the Cheery Harbinger Of Doom.

Don't let it get you down,

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 05, 2022, 04:29:53 PM
Don't let it get you down,

too late.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Ms Para glider on March 05, 2022, 04:43:39 PM
You are again doing what you deny doing. If any evidence was missed then it doesn't exist, so no matter how much you speculate you're wasting your time. I prefer to examine the evidence which does exist.

Am I really? And what exactly did I "deny" doing then?

I think you'll find what I said is that you were misrepresenting my point. You still are.

I also think it's you who is wasting their time if you expect to find the crucial answers to the case in the PJ files. They've already been examined to death and don't lead to any clear conclusions. So my point remains valid. It's the things the PJ missed at the time which are most likely to solve the case now.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on March 05, 2022, 04:58:06 PM
Am I really? And what exactly did I "deny" doing then?

I think you'll find what I said is that you were misrepresenting my point. You still are.

I also think it's you who is wasting their time if you expect to find the crucial answers to the case in the PJ files. They've already been examined to death and don't lead to any clear conclusions. So my point remains valid. It's the things the PJ missed at the time which are most likely to solve the case now.
[/b]

Assuming they are there to be found, or even looked for

IMO all 3 forces have been somewhat selective in what they have looked for
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2022, 05:20:04 PM
[/b]

Assuming they are there to be found, or even looked for

IMO all 3 forces have been somewhat selective in what they have looked for

Its what they've found that's important
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on March 05, 2022, 05:24:37 PM
I agree, which IMO is not very much.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 05, 2022, 05:29:56 PM
I agree, which IMO is not very much.
as you don’t have access to the police investigations your opinion is completely worthless (but thanks for sharing!)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2022, 05:50:59 PM
Thank you for sharing your opinion of what I should be discussing. I don't know what there is to say about Amaral's claims concerning Brueckner, apart from agreeing that he appears to have got it wrong.

You seem to think the evidence in the PJ files can be ignored because the investigations have 'moved on'. I don't share that opinion. That evidence was gathered at the time from people who were there, and any present investigation needs to take account of it imo.

I don't give a tinker's curse what you decide to discuss - I do think that whatever that may be should reflect the topic of the thread you are discussing it on.

In this instance the topic of the thread is Goncalo Amaral.  Self explanatory one would have thought.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Nicholas on March 05, 2022, 06:25:48 PM
Roberta Glass True Crime Podcast - ‘Madeleine McCann - a simple plan’

 https://www.spreaker.com/user/7811742/madeleine-mccann-a-simple-plan-feat-tom
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2022, 06:34:47 PM
Am I really? And what exactly did I "deny" doing then?

I think you'll find what I said is that you were misrepresenting my point. You still are.

I also think it's you who is wasting their time if you expect to find the crucial answers to the case in the PJ files. They've already been examined to death and don't lead to any clear conclusions. So my point remains valid. It's the things the PJ missed at the time which are most likely to solve the case now.

I've never thought answers could be found in the PJ files. What is there is evidence which casts doubt on the McCann's theory. That's why Amaral retired and wrote his book.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 05, 2022, 06:51:53 PM
Roberta Glass True Crime Podcast - ‘Madeleine McCann - a simple plan’

 https://www.spreaker.com/user/7811742/madeleine-mccann-a-simple-plan-feat-tom
Have you listened to this?  ihave had to pause it after the stunning revelation of a handwritten timeline found in Kate McCann’s possessions after the abduction which only had on check on it - Gerry’s from 9pm to 9.30pm. Apparently this note is in the files and was (according to Tom on the podcast) written before Madeleine disappeared.  *%87
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2022, 06:53:10 PM
Roberta Glass True Crime Podcast - ‘Madeleine McCann - a simple plan’

 https://www.spreaker.com/user/7811742/madeleine-mccann-a-simple-plan-feat-tom

They claim they're just following the evidence in the PJ files, but the podcast begins with yet another timeline allegedly found by the PJ amongst Kate McCann's papers. That evidence is not in the files.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 05, 2022, 06:54:53 PM
I've never thought answers could be found in the PJ files. What is there is evidence which casts doubt on the McCann's theory. That's why Amaral retired and wrote his book.
Did the archiving report highlight the evidence which cast doubt on the abduction theory.?  If so please could you remind us what it said, thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 05, 2022, 06:55:49 PM
They claim they're just following the evidence in the PJ files, but the podcast begins with yet another timeline allegedly found by the PJ amongst Kate McCann's papers. That evidence is not in the files.
I just made the same point.  More McCann bashing misinformation, just what we need!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on March 05, 2022, 07:33:29 PM
Roberta Glass True Crime Podcast - ‘Madeleine McCann - a simple plan’

 https://www.spreaker.com/user/7811742/madeleine-mccann-a-simple-plan-feat-tom (https://www.spreaker.com/user/7811742/madeleine-mccann-a-simple-plan-feat-tom)
Bejapers and begorrah!!!  It's in the foils she doid in foive A! ...  8(8-))   'nuff said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 05, 2022, 07:44:05 PM
Bejapers and begorrah!!!  It's in the foils she doid in foive A! ...  8(8-))   'nuff said.
Wacist!!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on March 05, 2022, 07:48:35 PM
Wacist!!
An' the top o' the mornin' to you too!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Nicholas on March 07, 2022, 08:06:27 PM
Have you listened to this?

I hadn’t when I posted the link no and given I don’t know all the details of this case I wouldn’t have a clue if what Tom said was true or not without fact checking
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on March 29, 2022, 01:15:37 AM
https://www.flash.pt/the-mag/detalhe/ingleses-fecham-caso-maddie-mas-inspetores-goncalo-amaral-e-moita-flores-dizem-ter-a-solucao-para-o-enigma

Goncalo Amaral & Francisco Moita Flores give their opinions on the reported closure of OG & why a reconstruction would have solved the case years & millions of pounds ago.
Kerching.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 29, 2022, 09:33:03 AM
https://www.flash.pt/the-mag/detalhe/ingleses-fecham-caso-maddie-mas-inspetores-goncalo-amaral-e-moita-flores-dizem-ter-a-solucao-para-o-enigma

Goncalo Amaral & Francisco Moita Flores give their opinions on the reported closure of OG & why a reconstruction would have solved the case years & millions of pounds ago.
Kerching.

Interesting.

Please bear in mind the truth of the lies as Amaral and his partner in crime squirm on the truth that Brueckner - an individual there for the questioning in 2007 - is now the prime suspect despite the lie of the cartoon covered van and the lie of the photoshopped hair and the conspiracy theories of paranoia.

"The Judiciary Police did not feel any political pressure from the English authorities and even less from the Portuguese authorities to act in this or that way.
That pressure did not exist at all", said Pedro do Carmo, in an interview with the Lusa agency, regarding the 10th anniversary of the disappearance of the English child Madeleine McCann, in the Algarve.

https://www.noticiasaominuto.com/pais/784844/maddie-pj-nao-sentiu-qualquer-pressao-politica-de-autoridades-inglesas




Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 29, 2022, 10:18:43 AM
https://www.flash.pt/the-mag/detalhe/ingleses-fecham-caso-maddie-mas-inspetores-goncalo-amaral-e-moita-flores-dizem-ter-a-solucao-para-o-enigma

Goncalo Amaral & Francisco Moita Flores give their opinions on the reported closure of OG & why a reconstruction would have solved the case years & millions of pounds ago.
Kerching.
So Amaral has decided the alarm was raised at exactly 10.14pm has he?  On what basis I wonder…?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 29, 2022, 10:32:35 AM
https://www.flash.pt/the-mag/detalhe/ingleses-fecham-caso-maddie-mas-inspetores-goncalo-amaral-e-moita-flores-dizem-ter-a-solucao-para-o-enigma

Goncalo Amaral & Francisco Moita Flores give their opinions on the reported closure of OG & why a reconstruction would have solved the case years & millions of pounds ago.
Kerching.
Nice little earner for the guys. Well done lads, keep that ching ching rolling in.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 29, 2022, 11:05:03 AM
The man is a scoundrel of that there can surely be no debate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 29, 2022, 12:05:56 PM
So Amaral has decided the alarm was raised at exactly 10.14pm has he?  On what basis I wonder…?

Maybe he's using Gerry's times, which, although vague in two of his statements became rather precise in another;

Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 29, 2022, 12:08:25 PM
Maybe he's using Gerry's times, which, although vague in two of his statements became rather precise in another;

Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm
Why would he decide to use Gerry’s time out of all the many, many witness statements when it is Gerry that he believes is a liar and body occulter?  Why doesn’t he believe the testimony of the chef who had no reason to lie, who said the alarm was raised nearly an hour earlier?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on March 29, 2022, 01:07:23 PM
Why would he decide to use Gerry’s time out of all the many, many witness statements when it is Gerry that he believes is a liar and body occulter?  Why doesn’t he believe the testimony of the chef who had no reason to lie, who said the alarm was raised nearly an hour earlier?

One has to give Gerry time to return to Tapas Bar area after been seen by the Smiths, %77*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 29, 2022, 01:22:17 PM
One has to give Gerry time to return to Tapas Bar area after been seen by the Smiths, %77*
Sounds about right, the devious, little scamp.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 29, 2022, 01:26:58 PM
Maybe he's using Gerry's times, which, although vague in two of his statements became rather precise in another;

Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm
Chivalry embodied. It's quite touching that it only took him 10 minutes to become concerned.
Mind you, it was like having dinner in your back garden.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 29, 2022, 01:33:32 PM
Why would he decide to use Gerry’s time out of all the many, many witness statements when it is Gerry that he believes is a liar and body occulter?  Why doesn’t he believe the testimony of the chef who had no reason to lie, who said the alarm was raised nearly an hour earlier?

Well, Gerry was the only one whose time (almost) matched.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 29, 2022, 01:37:31 PM
Chivalry embodied. It's quite touching that it only took him 10 minutes to become concerned.
Mind you, it was like having dinner in your back garden.

As opposed to the night before when he stomped off to bed (and to sleep) leaving Kate to get home on her own, it's been said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 29, 2022, 01:45:19 PM
Well, Gerry was the only one whose time (almost) matched.
almost matched what?  Your beliefs you mean?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 29, 2022, 01:53:13 PM
almost matched what?  Your beliefs you mean?

21.13 was Gerry's precise time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 29, 2022, 02:38:44 PM
21.13 was Gerry's precise time.
You’re confused.  Again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2022, 02:41:33 PM
As opposed to the night before when he stomped off to bed (and to sleep) leaving Kate to get home on her own, it's been said.

That is gratuitously nasty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 29, 2022, 03:59:41 PM
That is gratuitously nasty.
A bit harsh that, perhaps he was trying to diffuse the situation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2022, 04:10:42 PM
A bit harsh that, perhaps he was trying to diffuse the situation.

Is as opposed to Was.  Perhaps you don't understand English very well.  Present tense.  Not Past tense.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on March 29, 2022, 04:24:14 PM
That is gratuitously nasty.

Only to those who take these things to heart.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2022, 04:28:55 PM
Only to those who take these things to heart.

You need a heart to spot nasty, do you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 29, 2022, 04:34:07 PM
You need a heart to spot nasty, do you?
I would say so yes, some here clearly don’t have one, or if they do it’s as hard as stone.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on March 29, 2022, 04:48:46 PM
You need a heart to spot nasty, do you?

I don't really dwell on things said on here.
In this particular instance, I thought it was the other way round and she flounced off to sleep with the children. Perhaps that was another occasion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2022, 04:49:56 PM
I would say so yes, some here clearly don’t have one, or if they do it’s as hard as stone.

Putrified, do you mean?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 29, 2022, 04:55:00 PM
" Over the last few years, with the support and approval of the Portuguese authorities, a suspect was created, but the work of the British, German and Portuguese police was to pile up lies at the cost of a lot of money".
Goncalo Amaral
https://www.flash.pt/the-mag/detalhe/ingleses-fecham-caso-maddie-mas-inspetores-goncalo-amaral-e-moita-flores-dizem-ter-a-solucao-para-o-enigma

The question has to be asked why Amaral is so absolutely determined to sully the PJ - SY - and the BKA with accusations of police corruption.
I recognise the fact that he is likely to be a first hand account authority on the subject - but he is making serious accusations here and being allowed to do so publicly and with impunity for the moment.  But maybe his time is coming.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 29, 2022, 05:01:12 PM
Putrified, do you mean?
I couldn’t possibly comment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 29, 2022, 05:03:28 PM
" Over the last few years, with the support and approval of the Portuguese authorities, a suspect was created, but the work of the British, German and Portuguese police was to pile up lies at the cost of a lot of money".
Goncalo Amaral
https://www.flash.pt/the-mag/detalhe/ingleses-fecham-caso-maddie-mas-inspetores-goncalo-amaral-e-moita-flores-dizem-ter-a-solucao-para-o-enigma

The question has to be asked why Amaral is so absolutely determined to sully the PJ - SY - and the BKA with accusations of police corruption.
I recognise the fact that he is likely to be a first hand account authority on the subject - but he is making serious accusations here and being allowed to do so publicly and with impunity for the moment.  But maybe his time is coming.
I thought we weren’t allowed to claim that the PJ were on board with the abduction theory as well these days, so why is Amaral making this claim?  Is it another of his many, many lies or does he have insider knowledge?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 29, 2022, 05:14:44 PM
I thought we weren’t allowed to claim that the PJ were on board with the abduction theory as well these days, so why is Amaral making this claim?  Is it another of his many, many lies or does he have insider knowledge?

I found the article posted by Misty and quoting Flores and Amaral quite interesting from the point of view of the lies being promoted by them therein.

Amaral altering the time of the alert to Madeleine's disappearance is a good one as is his fixation with corruption and money.

Amaral has had a stranglehold on Madeleine's investigation right from the start and I think that is how he intends it to bring it to a conclusion.  There has been no official information emanating from Grange or the Yard and when it does come it may not be as much to his liking as he would wish.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 29, 2022, 07:10:43 PM
I don't really dwell on things said on here.
In this particular instance, I thought it was the other way round and she flounced off to sleep with the children. Perhaps that was another occasion.

That was her reaction to what he did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on March 30, 2022, 06:47:14 PM
The basis of sceptic thought about twisting the facts to make them fit ... we have probably recently seen an example of this in operation on the forum.

The time seems to have com3 from Gerry’s 10th of May statement.

“ - Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness,”
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 30, 2022, 06:54:44 PM
I found the article posted by Misty and quoting Flores and Amaral quite interesting from the point of view of the lies being promoted by them therein.

Amaral altering the time of the alert to Madeleine's disappearance is a good one as is his fixation with corruption and money.

Amaral has had a stranglehold on Madeleine's investigation right from the start and I think that is how he intends it to bring it to a conclusion.  There has been no official information emanating from Grange or the Yard and when it does come it may not be as much to his liking as he would wish.
As I've said several times Amaral has really toned down his claims.. He's noo longer claiming the mccanns covered up an accidental death
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 30, 2022, 07:02:36 PM
The time seems to have com3 from Gerry’s 10th of May statement.

“ - Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness,”
Hi Boris, perhaps you can explain why Amaral who obviously thinks Gerry is a liar and body occulter would decide to believe this detail above all others of Gerry’s statement?  I know you won’t answer so I will tell you why - because it fits with the idea that Gerry was Smithman, and for no other reason.  So. Amaral believe Gerry was telling the truth (but only once) about 10.14pm, and you believe Gerry threw his own alibi under the bus for no apparent reason.  Yes, all sounds PERFECTLY logical!!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on March 31, 2022, 12:25:47 PM
I found the article posted by Misty and quoting Flores and Amaral quite interesting from the point of view of the lies being promoted by them therein.

Amaral altering the time of the alert to Madeleine's disappearance is a good one as is his fixation with corruption and money.

Amaral has had a stranglehold on Madeleine's investigation right from the start and I think that is how he intends it to bring it to a conclusion.  There has been no official information emanating from Grange or the Yard and when it does come it may not be as much to his liking as he would wish.
Libel. Again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 31, 2022, 12:48:36 PM
Libel. Again.

Not Libel.  Amaral is a Convicted Liar, Cheat and Thief.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2022, 12:58:47 PM
As I've said several times Amaral has really toned down his claims.. He's noo longer claiming the mccanns covered up an accidental death

Amaral is doing little more in the interview than promoting his disastrous books on the case.  Flores seems to be doing most of the talking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 31, 2022, 01:08:12 PM

Why is Portugal unable to shut him up?  What Amaral has done is appalling.  As if his previous efforts weren't bad enough.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 31, 2022, 01:14:44 PM
Why is Portugal unable to shut him up?  What Amaral has done is appalling.  As if his previous efforts weren't bad enough.

Why would Portugal shut Amaral up; because you don't like what he says?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 31, 2022, 01:31:56 PM
Why would Portugal shut Amaral up; because you don't like what he says?

Nothing to do with what I don't like.

Libel, originally.  But lately just downright Lies.

Dread Locks and Cartoons.  All proven to be Lies.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 31, 2022, 02:03:34 PM
Nothing to do with what I don't like.

Libel, originally.  But lately just downright Lies.

Dread Locks and Cartoons.  All proven to be Lies.

So how could they shut him up if they wanted to?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 31, 2022, 02:06:53 PM
Jesus H.  Why do I still do this after 15 years?  I am no longer upset by the possible demise of Madeleine.  If she is dead then she died a long time ago.

But what is it with the nastiness?  And the support of a very dubious man who still goes on interfering for his own ends?

I left my children alone under similar circumstances, so how could I blame The McCanns for that?

No, I am probably not going to stop now.  But who are these people?  This is probably the saddest thing of all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 31, 2022, 02:19:37 PM
So how could they shut him up if they wanted to?

They could and well you know it.  Free Speech isn't an absolute Right even in Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 31, 2022, 02:28:43 PM
They could and well you know it.  Free Speech isn't an absolute Right even in Portugal.

Could they? How? Arrest him? On what charge?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on March 31, 2022, 02:34:21 PM
Could they? How? Arrest him? On what charge?

Anything you like. It's a supporters *** ***** that he gets arrested
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 31, 2022, 02:55:08 PM
Anything you like. It's a supporters *** ***** that he gets arrested

I know they have a low opinion of the Portuguese judiciary, but even they can't arrest someone for talking.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 31, 2022, 03:06:29 PM
Could they? How? Arrest him? On what charge?

Should I care if Portugal doesn't care?  The PJ are a joke now.  Don't take your children to Portugal.

But Amaral has shamed his country and been exposed as a Liar and a Cheat and a Thief.

Portugal must do as it may.  But there will be a way.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 31, 2022, 03:07:45 PM
Anything you like. It's a supporters *** ***** that he gets arrested

Yuck.  Not at all like you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2022, 04:26:41 PM
Nothing to do with what I don't like.

Libel, originally.  But lately just downright Lies.

Dread Locks and Cartoons.  All proven to be Lies.

"15 million euros were spent and all of them in order to protect that group close to the parents.

There is no other reason to explain all this madness with just this child when hundreds of children disappear in England a year.

And spend 15 million just on it reveals its own, very special intention..."
, he underlines, declaring: "And I have no answer for that".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 31, 2022, 04:39:21 PM

Amaral was just a very nasty little man who tried to cash in on what he thought was his Hey Day.  He failed miserably.

And The PJ should be so ashamed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on March 31, 2022, 04:48:40 PM
Amaral was just a very nasty little man who tried to cash in on what he thought was his Hey Day.  He failed miserably.

And The PJ should be so ashamed.

If you say so. I don't suppose many people bother either way, just a few die-hard supporters.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on March 31, 2022, 04:56:43 PM
If you say so. I don't suppose many people bother either way, just a few die-hard supporters.

That you truly don't understand.  Who indeed should care.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on March 31, 2022, 05:57:19 PM
Should I care if Portugal doesn't care?  The PJ are a joke now.  Don't take your children to Portugal.

But Amaral has shamed his country and been exposed as a Liar and a Cheat and a Thief.

Portugal must do as it may.  But there will be a way.

You clearly realise there's no way to silence Amaral using the law. Do you think they should use other means?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 31, 2022, 05:58:15 PM
If you say so. I don't suppose many people bother either way, just a few die-hard supporters.

I can't see any connection myself.

Yippee ki-yay !


"I heard about the die-hard fans gathering outside the hospital after Michael Jackson's death,"

"I thought: 'What are the Die Hard fans doing there?'

"That's completely inappropriate. When Bruce Willis dies, that will be the time for them."

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 01, 2022, 01:09:25 AM
Browsing.

After thirty years, the writer and well-known commentator decided to put an end to his regular intervention on television. Find out what's behind this decision.
January 17, 2022
Francisco is a well-known face of the Portuguese . In addition to being a writer and  playwright for  television , cinema and theater,  he was an inspector for the Judiciary Police and we are used to seeing him on television commenting on criminal cases. He went through RTP, SIC, TVI and, lately, with a very regular collaboration on CMTV.
https://www.flash.pt/celebridades/nacional/detalhe/francisco-moita-flores-diz-adeus-a-televisao-saiba-as-razoes-do-abandono


That's a lot of influencing television exposure over the years and a lot of opinion promoted and a lot formed as a result.
But despite his retirement from TV, it seems he could not resist putting his oar into Madeleine's case yet once more to pontificate along with his friend Amaral.

Isn't it remarkable how many of Amaral's friends find themselves on the opposite side of the criminal investigative process than was their norm when high ranking PJ officials in their day.



March 31, 2022
In recent times, Moita Flores has been a permanent commentator for CMTV, but now he has decided that it is time to "reform" this facet. And in an interview with TV Guia, he explains the reasons.

Why did you decide to move away from television now?

I got out, I'm sick of television. I made television for 30 years…

Did the process in Santarém, in which he was accused of crimes of embezzlement, and which is still running in court, from the time when he was mayor, also made him give up public exposure?

Do not touch me. This will pass slowly. I know how justice and the media work: you have the big news to put the people on a war footing and then it goes away.

I saw a recent news, which is just a note, with a paparazzo of his published in the newspaper 'O Mirante', in which they highlight, depreciating his physical characteristics, saying that he is increasingly "curved and bald". Did you feel insulted by this post?
These guys are my eternal enemies. We are only mocked by those we allow to be mocked. That's a little quiche. They don't insult me ​​at all. They mounted a war on him to annihilate him, was that it? Did they carry out a political assassination on you in Santarém?

They set me up in a party-political war of ambitious, unscrupulous, characterless b........s. None of them had life if it weren't for me. I gave them life and in the end they wanted to kill the 'father'. So they invented all the sh*t possible.
https://www.flash.pt/celebridades/detalhe/francisco-moita-flores-revela-o-verdadeiro-motivo-que-o-levou-a-deixar-de-fazer-televisao?ref=DET_Engageya_Flash
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on April 01, 2022, 01:35:46 AM
Browsing.

After thirty years, the writer and well-known commentator decided to put an end to his regular intervention on television. Find out what's behind this decision.
January 17, 2022
Francisco is a well-known face of the Portuguese . In addition to being a writer and  playwright for  television , cinema and theater,  he was an inspector for the Judiciary Police and we are used to seeing him on television commenting on criminal cases. He went through RTP, SIC, TVI and, lately, with a very regular collaboration on CMTV.
https://www.flash.pt/celebridades/nacional/detalhe/francisco-moita-flores-diz-adeus-a-televisao-saiba-as-razoes-do-abandono


That's a lot of influencing television exposure over the years and a lot of opinion promoted and a lot formed as a result.
But despite his retirement from TV, it seems he could not resist putting his oar into Madeleine's case yet once more to pontificate along with his friend Amaral.

Isn't it remarkable how many of Amaral's friends find themselves on the opposite side of the criminal investigative process than was their norm when high ranking PJ officials in their day.



March 31, 2022
In recent times, Moita Flores has been a permanent commentator for CMTV, but now he has decided that it is time to "reform" this facet. And in an interview with TV Guia, he explains the reasons.

Why did you decide to move away from television now?

I got out, I'm sick of television. I made television for 30 years…

Did the process in Santarém, in which he was accused of crimes of embezzlement, and which is still running in court, from the time when he was mayor, also made him give up public exposure?

Do not touch me. This will pass slowly. I know how justice and the media work: you have the big news to put the people on a war footing and then it goes away.

I saw a recent news, which is just a note, with a paparazzo of his published in the newspaper 'O Mirante', in which they highlight, depreciating his physical characteristics, saying that he is increasingly "curved and bald". Did you feel insulted by this post?
These guys are my eternal enemies. We are only mocked by those we allow to be mocked. That's a little quiche. They don't insult me ​​at all. They mounted a war on him to annihilate him, was that it? Did they carry out a political assassination on you in Santarém?

They set me up in a party-political war of ambitious, unscrupulous, characterless b........s. None of them had life if it weren't for me. I gave them life and in the end they wanted to kill the 'father'. So they invented all the sh*t possible.
https://www.flash.pt/celebridades/detalhe/francisco-moita-flores-revela-o-verdadeiro-motivo-que-o-levou-a-deixar-de-fazer-televisao?ref=DET_Engageya_Flash

Interesting.  Well spotted, Brie.

Does he have a finger in the pie, I wonder?   He sounds a bit churned up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2022, 08:00:57 AM
You clearly realise there's no way to silence Amaral using the law. Do you think they should use other means?

Certainly Not.

You obviously don't have a very high opinion of Portuguese Law.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2022, 08:03:47 AM
Certainly Not.

You obviously don't have a very high opinion of Portuguese Law.

Which countries do you think have laws which could be used against their citizens for this 'offence'?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2022, 08:35:21 AM
Which countries do you think have laws which could be used against their citizens for this 'offence'?

I seem to remember some people in England trying to publish potentially libellous books and having them banned in a Court of Law as they might interfere with Justice.

As it is, publishers in England refused to publish Amaral's book.

Portugal seems to have an over inflated idea of the right to Free Speach and ignore the responsibilities that go with that right.

Fine by me if they don't want to stop him.  He is making the State of Portugal look very stupid when a quiet word in his ear would have sufficed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 01, 2022, 08:36:18 AM
Which countries do you think have laws which could be used against their citizens for this 'offence'?
Portugal through its courts hve supported Amaral in his attacks on the McCanns reputation although he has actually stopped much of this now. That's what the ECHR case is about
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 01, 2022, 08:39:39 AM
Which countries do you think have laws which could be used against their citizens for this 'offence'?

Great Britain?

I don't think I can recall any instances where a disgraced senior officer of rank such as Goncalo Amaral has been allowed the "freedom of expression" to mount a propaganda vendetta primarily using the TV media against an innocent couple over the period of years he has.

I think the libel laws of this country would in the first instance preclude any such happenings.

I think the scrutiny of journalists and interviewers would in the second instance never have given a person like Amaral the easy ride their Portuguese counterparts have.

Third but not least is that the British general public simply are not as gullible as the Portuguese seem to be.  MO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 01, 2022, 08:52:47 AM
I seem to remember some people in England trying to publish potentially libellous books and having them banned in a Court of Law as they might interfere with Justice.

As it is, publishers in England refused to publish Amaral's book.

Portugal seems to have an over inflated idea of the right to Free Speach and ignore the responsibilities that go with that right.

Fine by me if they don't want to stop him. He is making the State of Portugal look very stupid when a quiet word in his ear would have sufficed.

You clearly hold Amaral in very high regard. I'm not sure he's that high on the list of any state concerns.
Of more concern is their enormous debt, unemployment, impending recession & food & energy crisis, I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2022, 09:02:12 AM
You clearly hold Amaral in very high regard. I'm not sure he's that high on the list of any state concerns.
Of more concern is their enormous debt, unemployment, impending recession & food & energy crisis, I'd imagine.

No surprises there then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 01, 2022, 09:11:02 AM
No surprises there then.

To be fair, I doubt the state of Germany are too bothered about Christian Brueckner at the moment either, considering their gas supply could be shut off today.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 01, 2022, 09:14:49 AM
Great Britain?

I don't think I can recall any instances where a disgraced senior officer of rank such as Goncalo Amaral has been allowed the "freedom of expression" to mount a propaganda vendetta primarily using the TV media against an innocent couple over the period of years he has.

I think the libel laws of this country would in the first instance preclude any such happenings.

I think the scrutiny of journalists and interviewers would in the second instance never have given a person like Amaral the easy ride their Portuguese counterparts have.

Third but not least is that the British general public simply are not as gullible as the Portuguese seem to be.  MO
Two words: Ali Dizaei
Have a Google and get back to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2022, 09:15:25 AM
I seem to remember some people in England trying to publish potentially libellous books and having them banned in a Court of Law as they might interfere with Justice.

As it is, publishers in England refused to publish Amaral's book.

Portugal seems to have an over inflated idea of the right to Free Speach and ignore the responsibilities that go with that right.

Fine by me if they don't want to stop him.  He is making the State of Portugal look very stupid when a quiet word in his ear would have sufficed.

So you think he could be silenced using libel laws? Who would sue him? Who were these English people you mention and who sued them?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2022, 09:20:00 AM
So you think he could be silenced using libel laws? Who would sue him? Who were these English people you mention and who sued them?

We are currently awaiting the outcome of The ECHR.  This does involve Amaral although The State of Portugal will have to pay.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2022, 09:35:25 AM
To return to the beginning;

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg679978#msg679978

Portugal has no laws it can use to shut Amaral up. It seems the only suggestions are that the libel laws be used, but that would involve complainants other than the Portuguese state. The McCanns attempted that, but failed to prove their case in the Portuguese courts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 01, 2022, 09:59:28 AM
We are currently awaiting the outcome of The ECHR.  This does involve Amaral although The State of Portugal will have to pay.

You pay too much reliance on Davel re. the ECHR.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2022, 10:03:23 AM
You pay too much reliance on Davel re. the ECHR.

Davel is the only one who actually understands The ECHR.  Coupled with a lot of research.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on April 01, 2022, 10:22:42 AM
Davel is the only one who actually understands The ECHR.  Coupled with a lot of research.

 @)(++(*  Now that IS funny.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 01, 2022, 10:27:11 AM
@)(++(*  Now that IS funny.

Let's see if you think it's funny when I'm proved right... As I will be
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2022, 10:32:50 AM
@)(++(*  Now that IS funny.

Research is hard work.  I rarely do any.  That is funny.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2022, 10:40:52 AM
Research is hard work.  I rarely do any.  That is funny.

You don't need to, Davel does it for you. Let's hope he's doing it right, eh?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on April 01, 2022, 10:49:08 AM
Google is everyone's friend  8)--))
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 01, 2022, 10:52:06 AM
You don't need to, Davel does it for you. Let's hope he's doing it right, eh?
You might remember how many sceptics claimed the ECHR case had nothing to do with amaral. i was almost a lone voice saying it did...and was proved right

You may have noticed how much he has reigned in his comments

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 01, 2022, 10:54:19 AM
Google is everyone's friend  8)--))

I think you would have to be pig ignorant not to realise how useful google is to carry out research...but I suppose some people are
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2022, 10:58:43 AM
You might remember how many sceptics claimed the ECHR case had nothing to do with amaral. i was almost a lone voice saying it did...and was proved right

You may have noticed how much he has reigned in his comments

Is that your evidence - that he (in your opinion) has reined in his comments? I don't think that he has, so you haven't convinced me that you're right.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2022, 11:05:25 AM
You don't need to, Davel does it for you. Let's hope he's doing it right, eh?

I am sure that Davel is doing it right.  But all cases rest on their own merit in the end.  And Portugal does have a history of losing these cases, as Davel pointed out.

This Forum would not be so well informed legally, but for Davel.

You can ignore the known facts if you like.  No skin off my nose.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
Is that your evidence - that he (in your opinion) has reined in his comments? I don't think that he has, so you haven't convinced me that you're right.

Amaral has reigned in his comments as far as I can see.  Not that I care.  Amaral has always been wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 01, 2022, 11:23:32 AM
Is that your evidence - that he (in your opinion) has reined in his comments? I don't think that he has, so you haven't convinced me that you're right.

Read his last comments a few days ago... Does he say Maddie died in an accident which was covered up by the parents. You are once again in denial. Unless you have problems with your memory you should be aware that's not the entirety of my reasoning
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 01, 2022, 11:36:02 AM
Is that your evidence - that he (in your opinion) has reined in his comments? I don't think that he has, so you haven't convinced me that you're right.

ive just reread his latest comments...no mention of accidental death and cover up...no mention of his book that he was sued for. if posters cant see how he has stopped his accusations they must be blind





Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2022, 12:28:45 PM
ive just reread his latest comments...no mention of accidental death and cover up...no mention of his book that he was sued for. if posters cant see how he has stopped his accusations they must be blind

His views are well known and a matter of record. Now he's moved on and is discussing the latest developments in the case. Perhaps you should move on too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 01, 2022, 12:29:33 PM
You might remember how many sceptics claimed the ECHR case had nothing to do with amaral. i was almost a lone voice saying it did...and was proved right

You may have noticed how much he has reigned in his comments

Well he still gets under a few noses on here so he's not that silent, unless a grudge is borne .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 01, 2022, 12:30:51 PM
His views are well known and a matter of record. Now he's moved on and is discussing the latest developments in the case. Perhaps you should move on too.

Grist for the mill.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 01, 2022, 12:34:28 PM
Well he still gets under a few noses on here so he's not that silent, unless a grudge is borne .

If youve understood my posts you will see that to a certain extent I dont blame amaral. He genuinely thinks what he says is true. Hes listened to what grime has claimed about his dogs and if everything grime has claimed is true...if his dogs are taht reliable...then Maddie died in the apartment and the parents are.....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 01, 2022, 12:42:40 PM
If youve understood my posts you will see that to a certain extent I dont blame amaral. He genuinely thinks what he says is true. Hes listened to what grime has claimed about his dogs and if everything grime has claimed is true...if his dogs are taht reliable...then Maddie died in the apartment and the parents are.....

I said a few, their post's reveal it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 01, 2022, 12:47:48 PM
His views are well known and a matter of record. Now he's moved on and is discussing the latest developments in the case. Perhaps you should move on too.

wrong again...hes discussing the original investigaton  too..you need to read it again
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2022, 01:09:56 PM
His views are well known and a matter of record. Now he's moved on and is discussing the latest developments in the case. Perhaps you should move on too.


Perhaps you should leave Members to express their own opinions.

Amaral should not be discussing anything about the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 01, 2022, 01:55:34 PM
His views are well known and a matter of record. Now he's moved on and is discussing the latest developments in the case. Perhaps you should move on too.
This is advice you could well do with taking yourself, IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2022, 04:36:11 PM
This is advice you could well do with taking yourself, IMO.

Glory be.  How can one understand this?  Amaral never did.  Probably because he was as thick as planks.  But that is the more kind version.

I believe  that Amaral was up to no good for whatever reason that suited him.

I would like to see his phone use that night.  Along with Cristovao.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 01, 2022, 09:46:37 PM
Glory be.  How can one understand this?  Amaral never did.  Probably because he was as thick as planks.  But that is the more kind version.

I believe  that Amaral was up to no good for whatever reason that suited him.

I would like to see his phone use that night.  Along with Cristovao.

If Wolters is as good as some would like maybe its all in hand.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on April 01, 2022, 11:14:44 PM
Glory be.  How can one understand this?  Amaral never did.  Probably because he was as thick as planks.  But that is the more kind version.

I believe  that Amaral was up to no good for whatever reason that suited him.

I would like to see his phone use that night.  Along with Cristovao.

I would like to see Amarals and Cristovaos phone use that night as well.  And there are a few on here that I would like to see for that period and the following day, as well.

After seeing what happened in the Joana Cipriano case and other things, I cannot trust Amaral at all


Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 02, 2022, 07:53:21 AM
If Wolters is as good as some would like maybe its all in hand.

Well - Amaral did sort of drew attention to himself with his conduct before we had even heard of Brueckner.

An extraordinary action which I think was designed to derail the current investigation.  What else was his purpose?

It is perfectly possible that the police had been quietly building the evidence in a case against Brueckner without him being aware of it.  And Amaral deliberately interfered by enabling Brueckner's name to appear in the public domain while warning Brueckner.
In doing so he has inextricably linked his name with his.

Amaral apparently does not want what happened to Madeleine to ever be known for his own reasons.  Were I a member of the current investigation I would want to know his motive to start the ball rolling on that and maybe someone does have that in hand as you suggest.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on April 03, 2022, 02:54:44 AM
I can only judge from what is posted on this forum and although a prolific 'borrower' of information posted elsewhere I always acknowledge my source when I do that.

One of those whose phone calls it was suggested might have benefitted from scrutiny was an ex inspector who is now a convicted serial criminal presently serving what passes for a sentence in Portugal if you are ex job.

Fair comment about checking him out as he has of course written books on Madeleine and other missing children and has taken a proactive interest in her case then and since.

If you put yourself in the firing line - expect to be shot at.

There is a concerted effort afoot - instigated and encouraged by Amaral who instigated the original conspiracies  - to keep the conspiracy theories extant in all concerning Madeleine.

All that is required is a little help from his friends.

But when he comes out with all guns blazing in support of a paedophile and rapist utilising no evidence but falsehoods, that sure ticks a box for me.

You may disagree that a look at his phone record back then might have proven interesting - me?  I tend to think it could have been interesting - but his recent behaviour certainly does warrant exciting even more puzzlement.

Deleted ... 04/04/22


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2022, 04:27:24 AM

Let's not forget that Portugal used to have a child agency called 'Institute de Apolo a Crianca'.  This published details of and looked for missing Children.



There was a new set up, a new organisation specializing in missing Children called:  Portuguese Association for Missing Children


And leading this new Organisation was Paulo Pereira Cristovao.  He was President

-  Accused of torture in the Leonora torture trial.  He was aquited because Leonor wsa blindfolded so couldn't see who was hitting her
-  Many thought that he falsely accused Leonor of murder, rather than search for Joana  (no proof) this was also true of Amaral
-  He, with Amaral, failed to find missing children.  He gave up too early
-  He, later as a journalist, is thought to have released all of the deliberately incriminating disinformation about The Mccanns courtesy of his friend and ex-collegue Goncalo Amaral.
- Is it correct that they are both dismissed Ex PJ Chief Inspectors?
-  The man who made money by releasing two books.   One about Joana Cipriano and one about Madeleine Mccann.  Amaral also wrote a book about Madeleine

Cristovao,  The man who says the Organisation was founded to find 8 missing childen, but NOT Madeleine!   He said this t 24Horas.  Not Madeline because The Mccanns are suspects!

His disinformation in the media.  Was it called Paedo Tom-Tom?

What was going on?  Appointing such a man to lead such a sensitive organisation?


WHY would a man who seemed  to be against finding missing children be appointed to such a position??


And crucially,

-  WHO set up the organisation to replace the earlier quite satisfactory Child finding oganisation
-  WHO financed it?
-  WHO chose the very unlikely Cristovao to lead it?  ..... who, as we all know, is now spending time in jail for various despicable criminal Acts


I would like that man/men looking at.  The man referred to as WHO in particular


This is based on an abbreviated artle from  the book, "The Madeleine  Investigation ...  Incompetence or Corruption"



And, of course, many people think that Cristovao is a dead ringer for one of the Smithman identikit images.


Doucement, Sadie.  If we may not accuse Brueckner then nor may we make direct accusations against other possibly more obvious  suspects, even if only for the desire to abduct Madeleine for financial gain.  Along with Joanna Cipriano.

This has all been noted on this Forum, but with care for what we say.  We cannot be too careful.  Although only for the sake of The Law.

Love you to bits and my phone is b....red.  But only for it's own sake.  You could send me an Email.  I have been through  all of the rubbish that you have had, but no one wanted to listen.  And so I gave up on trying.

Bon Soir my best friend.


 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on April 03, 2022, 12:17:21 PM

Doucement, Sadie.  If we may not accuse Brueckner then nor may we make direct accusations against other possibly more obvious  suspects, even if only for the desire to abduct Madeleine for financial gain.  Along with Joanna Cipriano.

This has all been noted on this Forum, but with care for what we say.  We cannot be too careful.  Although only for the sake of The Law.

Love you to bits and my phone is b....red.  But only for it's own sake.  You could send me an Email.  I have been through  all of the rubbish that you have had, but no one wanted to listen.  And so I gave up on trying.

Bon Soir my best friend.


 

How sweet. Thank you Elli.

I can't email anyone  because my computer is infected and I fear passing a virus/malware etc on.  Hubby insists that I dont need a new computer. Sheesh!    He keeps buying them  for himself !     I could buy one myself but then I doubt he would set it up for me, so I am between a rock and a hard place unable to reach any of my friends on here.   

Sorry, my friends.   It has been a very long time since I corresponded and I miss you.   I miss you all.   But now I understand what is going on, I aint going to infect you.    Personally  I am being isolated and threatened hidden in plain sight, on here and in other ways off here   My end might be near.   If that is the case, so be it.   So long as they manage to save the children and other enslaved/bullied people.  Stop the trafficking.


Elli, thank you for trying.   I had noticed and do appreciate it.   And I also appreciate support from a few friends on the forum.   It has been hard, but I am wondering if OG are finally there.   Well done if they are.   Things have happened in the past couple of weeks that confirm that I am looking at the right man, but there will be others.


You were up late last night.   Like me, I guess you will be snoozing a lot today.    Heyho!   Thank gawd for snoozez   8(*(


Take care.  Loads of love to you and all     Sadie Xxxx,


PS The piece that I wote was from the book written by the forum we were in.   I have abreviated and added comments.   Maybe I should modify it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on April 03, 2022, 05:48:54 PM
Well - Amaral did sort of drew attention to himself with his conduct before we had even heard of Brueckner.

An extraordinary action which I think was designed to derail the current investigation.  What else was his purpose?

It is perfectly possible that the police had been quietly building the evidence in a case against Brueckner without him being aware of it.  And Amaral deliberately interfered by enabling Brueckner's name to appear in the public domain while warning Brueckner.
In doing so he has inextricably linked his name with his.

Amaral apparently does not want what happened to Madeleine to ever be known for his own reasons.  Were I a member of the current investigation I would want to know his motive to start the ball rolling on that and maybe someone does have that in hand as you suggest.

Another corker.

It really is astonishing how hatred twists people’s perception of reality.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 03, 2022, 06:18:37 PM
Another corker.

It really is astonishing how hatred twists people’s perception of reality.
Oh what astonishing lack of self awareness.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 15, 2022, 08:03:40 PM

Okay.  Let's have another look at Amaral.

Why the Cartoons and why the Dreadlocks?  This is utterly dreadful.  Amaral is involved in this.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2022, 08:18:23 PM
Okay.  Let's have another look at Amaral.

Why the Cartoons and why the Dreadlocks?  This is utterly dreadful.  Amaral is involved in this.

For some reason nobody seems too keen to discuss Amaral.

Any other nonsensical conspiracy theory under the sun - yes.   A real mystery about deliberate lies being broadcast in an attempt to undermine the police investigation - and nobody is bothered.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 15, 2022, 08:33:29 PM
For some reason nobody seems too keen to discuss Amaral.

Any other nonsensical conspiracy theory under the sun - yes.   A real mystery about deliberate lies being broadcast in an attempt to undermine the police investigation - and nobody is bothered.

Well, it is awfully difficult when there is no proof of anything.  And no one wants talk abut the lies that Amaral told.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on April 15, 2022, 08:36:34 PM
For some reason nobody seems too keen to discuss Amaral.

Any other nonsensical conspiracy theory under the sun - yes.   A real mystery about deliberate lies being broadcast in an attempt to undermine the police investigation - and nobody is bothered.

Not everyone shares your obsession.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 15, 2022, 08:40:25 PM
Not everyone shares your obsession.

And not everyone is as lacking in the obvious as you are.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 15, 2022, 08:48:29 PM
Not everyone shares your obsession.

Very true.

But then, since this is the AMARAL thread.  Why wouldn't you think it appropriate to discuss him on it.  Particularly his latest interventionsIt is of interest to me - therefore I discuss.
If it is of no interest to you - feel free not to.

But do please have the courtesy to desist from dropping your non-sequiturs around;  it is more than tiresome - goading and rude are two rule breakers I can associate with them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 15, 2022, 09:51:16 PM
Very true.

But then, since this is the AMARAL thread.  Why wouldn't you think it appropriate to discuss him on it.  Particularly his latest interventions
  • the false description of the prime suspect
  • the false description of the prime suspect's vehicle
It is of interest to me - therefore I discuss.
If it is of no interest to you - feel free not to.

But do please have the courtesy to desist from dropping your non-sequiturs around;  it is more than tiresome - goading and rude are two rule breakers I can associate with them.

Jassi isn't really horrid you know.  Well, not mostly.

But no one earns brownie points for anything much these days.

It is all going horribly down hill now because there is no evidence or proof of McCann involvement.  But it is by virtue becoming more nasty.

The fact is that The McCanns were never involved.  And so the Loosers will become more angry.

I don't understand this.  Even if they were treated badly themselves.

My childhood was pretty abysmal, but I still don't understand.  There was no logical possibility of killing a child.

More to the point, my own childhood told me just that.  No one killed my sister or me, albeit with possibilities.

And I am really sad that some of you might not have come out of this as well as I diid.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 16, 2022, 08:40:06 AM
Jassi isn't really horrid you know.  Well, not mostly.

But no one earns brownie points for anything much these days.

It is all going horribly down hill now because there is no evidence or proof of McCann involvement.  But it is by virtue becoming more nasty.

The fact is that The McCanns were never involved.  And so the Loosers will become more angry.

I don't understand this.  Even if they were treated badly themselves.

My childhood was pretty abysmal, but I still don't understand.  There was no logical possibility of killing a child.

More to the point, my own childhood told me just that.  No one killed my sister or me, albeit with possibilities.

And I am really sad that some of you might not have come out of this as well as I diid.

I think the farthest person from Amaral's thoughts over fifteen years has been Madeleine McCann.

He just wanted her case to be "cleared up" with her parents as convenient fall guys.

That there are still individuals about who actually believe the lies and propaganda which emanated and emanates into Portuguese media with him as a catalyst will always be a wonderment to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on April 16, 2022, 11:09:03 AM
I think the farthest person from Amaral's thoughts over fifteen years has been Madeleine McCann.

He just wanted her case to be "cleared up" with her parents as convenient fall guys.

That there are still individuals about who actually believe the lies and propaganda which emanated and emanates into Portuguese media with him as a catalyst will always be a wonderment to me.

It seemed to me that he liked 'to milk' her for monetary gain
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 16, 2022, 11:12:11 AM
It seemed to me that he liked 'to milk' her for monetary gain

There can be no denying he did - but my gut feeling is that there is a lot more to it than that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 16, 2022, 11:19:23 AM
It seemed to me that he liked 'to milk' her for monetary gain

So many people have made money out of this case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on April 16, 2022, 11:27:29 AM
There can be no denying he did - but my gut feeling is that there is a lot more to it than that.

I couldn't agree more

And there are ancient links   [Cue for everyone to roll their eyes   @)(++(*]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on April 16, 2022, 02:24:32 PM
Another corker.

It really is astonishing how hatred twists people’s perception of reality.

Can you shed any light on why Amaral would claim CB had dreadlocks at the time of Madeleines disappearance and also that he had cartoon characters on his van?   As I can't come up with any reason apart from him wanting to stop the investigation being aimed at CB.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 16, 2022, 03:13:47 PM
Can you shed any light on why Amaral would claim CB had dreadlocks at the time of Madeleines disappearance and also that he had cartoon characters on his van?   As I can't come up with any reason apart from him wanting to stop the investigation being aimed at CB.
On the other hand he can't be placed in Luz, so where is the bona fide id of him, including clothes he wore and personal appearance?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 16, 2022, 03:58:57 PM
On the other hand he can't be placed in Luz, so where is the bona fide id of him, including clothes he wore and personal appearance?

Really?  Where was he then?  All he has to do to have himself removed as prime suspect is say where he was and confirm the dread locks Amaral describes.

Pity we've all seen him with the short back and sides to which his hair was trimmed at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.

Quite obviously when Amaral lied about Brueckner's appearance - he did not know that clearly dateable video existed and was going to turn up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on April 16, 2022, 08:41:56 PM
Can you shed any light on why Amaral would claim CB had dreadlocks at the time of Madeleines disappearance and also that he had cartoon characters on his van?   As I can't come up with any reason apart from him wanting to stop the investigation being aimed at CB.

Or that he was a bit skint and was being paid for his appearance and the information he said he had. Not everything’s a conspiracy?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 17, 2022, 10:50:19 AM
Really?  Where was he then?  All he has to do to have himself removed as prime suspect is say where he was and confirm the dread locks Amaral describes.

Pity we've all seen him with the short back and sides to which his hair was trimmed at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.

Quite obviously when Amaral lied about Brueckner's appearance - he did not know that clearly dateable video existed and was going to turn up.

Go on then show us a bona fide statement that he was in Luz at the time of Madeleine's disappearance, include in that an eye witness account of his appearance at that time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 17, 2022, 11:18:10 AM
Go on then show us a bona fide statement that he was in Luz at the time of Madeleine's disappearance, include in that an eye witness account of his appearance at that time.
Why are you deflecting from that which was being discussed ie: Amaral’s lies about CB’s appearance and that of his campervan at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2022, 02:08:18 PM
Why are you deflecting from that which was being discussed ie: Amaral’s lies about CB’s appearance and that of his campervan at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance?

I'm having a lot of difficulty getting past that episode and I can see quite where Amaral supporters might prefer it being airbrushed from history.

But make no mistake about it this subterfuge epitomises the personal history of the man.  The only thing out of character for him is that he did it all so openly that he will never be able to disassociate from these particular lies.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 17, 2022, 02:16:39 PM
Interestingly, a man with dreadlocks was reported as being in the Tapas complex on the evening of 3rd.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2022, 03:25:10 PM
Interestingly, a man with dreadlocks was reported as being in the Tapas complex on the evening of 3rd.

Interestingly, Amaral incorporated descriptions of the prime suspect with dreadlocks into his TV interviews - while totally ignoring witness descriptions (perhaps at the time, but certainly in 2020) of blond men lurking around the Apartment.

Which would have remained the narrative had Brueckner not posed for the video and photographs which showed the falsehood of the mocked up image displayed by Amaral.

The significance of your reference to the file report of the dreadlocked man seen at the tapas is what ... ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 17, 2022, 04:51:37 PM
Interestingly, a man with dreadlocks was reported as being in the Tapas complex on the evening of 3rd.
So is Amaral placing CB in the Tapas Complex on the evening of 3rd May then, in your view?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on April 17, 2022, 06:26:52 PM
Interestingly, a man with dreadlocks was reported as being in the Tapas complex on the evening of 3rd.
Michael Sperrey?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 17, 2022, 06:46:36 PM
So is Amaral placing CB in the Tapas Complex on the evening of 3rd May then, in your view?

I have no idea, I'm just reporting a coincidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2022, 07:06:02 PM
I have no idea, I'm just reporting a coincidence.

One was a bona fide witness statement which was investigated by the PJ at the time.

The other was a fabrication of Amaral's designed to disrupt the ongoing 2020 BKA investigation.

What do you find coincidental about that - I certainly don't see it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 17, 2022, 07:20:14 PM
One was a bona fide witness statement which was investigated by the PJ at the time.

The other was a fabrication of Amaral's designed to disrupt the ongoing 2020 BKA investigation.

What do you find coincidental about that - I certainly don't see it.

The PJ decided the witness had seen another holisaymaker, but the witness wasn't ask to confirm it. The holidaymaker didn't have dreadlocks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2022, 09:20:38 PM
The PJ decided the witness had seen another holisaymaker, but the witness wasn't ask to confirm it. The holidaymaker didn't have dreadlocks.

I think you are missing the point that in 2020 Amaral launched himself on the Portuguese print media and television complete with mocked up photographs which he purported illustrated the appearance of the suspect in a heinous crime at the time the crime was committed.

This is indisputable.

A short time later a video emerged of the actual suspect at the actual time prior to the crime taking place.

This is also indisputable.

If it is your contention that the PJ messed up with regard to the witness in 2007 - that is fine as it remains on topic with Amaral being the co-ordinator at the time with the remit of ensuring that slip ups such as you describe didn't happen.
Maybe that is why the 'dreadlocks' stuck in his mind.

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to do with your last couple of posts in this vein;  I know it can be nothing to do with the deliberately misleading misinformation fed to the Portuguese media by Amaral;  which for the third time of saying - is indisputable.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on April 17, 2022, 10:28:05 PM
Michael Sperrey?

Hi Anthro.

Can you please remind me who Michael Sperrey is?   Do you have a photo of him?

TY.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

ETA.  Thanks, Brie.  Xxx

I remember him now

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2022, 11:37:45 PM
Hi Anthro.

Can you please remind me who Michael Sperrey is?   Do you have a photo of him?

TY.

Try this link, Sadie.
https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2705.msg215956#msg215956
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2022, 08:18:12 AM
Michael Sperrey?

That's who the PJ decided it was, but his hair wasn't 'rasta style' at all. Rasta style is dreadlocks imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 18, 2022, 08:39:28 AM
That's who the PJ decided it was, but his hair wasn't 'rasta style' at all. Rasta style is dreadlocks imo.
Not in his passport photo no, were there no other pictures of him available at the time?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2022, 08:45:13 AM
That's who the PJ decided it was, but his hair wasn't 'rasta style' at all. Rasta style is dreadlocks imo.

The PJ under co-ordinator Goncalo Amaral made a lot of snap decisions in the early days about who was suspect and who wasn't.  Which was a practice continued over the years and into 2019 when Amaral announced to the world that investigators had a then unknown 'patsy' under suspicion.

He then proceeded to overegg the pudding in his search of obfuscation.  I think this is a man who has spent years demonstrating that he will do whatever it takes to prevent the truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann from being discovered.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2022, 09:21:58 AM
Not in his passport photo no, were there no other pictures of him available at the time?
Misty posted a picture of Sperrey on the morning of 4May still wearing the clothing described by the witness.
https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg603571#msg603571
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 18, 2022, 09:25:08 AM
Misty posted a picture of Sperrey on the morning of 4May still wearing the clothing described by the witness.
https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg603571#msg603571
Hard to see what sort of hairstyle he is sporting there but thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2022, 09:25:44 AM
The PJ under co-ordinator Goncalo Amaral made a lot of snap decisions in the early days about who was suspect and who wasn't.  Which was a practice continued over the years and into 2019 when Amaral announced to the world that investigators had a then unknown 'patsy' under suspicion.

He then proceeded to overegg the pudding in his search of obfuscation.  I think this is a man who has spent years demonstrating that he will do whatever it takes to prevent the truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann from being discovered.

You think that Amaral knows what heppened to Madeleine McCann and has spent years trying prevent anyone finding out? I think that statement is libelous.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 18, 2022, 09:29:37 AM
You think that Amaral knows what heppened to Madeleine McCann and has spent years trying prevent anyone finding out? I think that statement is libelous.
I don't know what Brietta thinks but I know what I think - Amaral does not want to be proven wrong and so will do everything in his power to prevent someone who isn't Madeleine's parents being convicted of the crime.  If that involves throwing out the odd red herring for the hell of it then so be it.  Incidentally you have indirectly libelled Amaral by refusing to accept his word when he says the police knocked on CB's door after Madeleine's disappearance, therefore implying he is a liar.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2022, 09:41:15 AM
You think that Amaral knows what heppened to Madeleine McCann and has spent years trying prevent anyone finding out? I think that statement is libelous.

You mean Amaral didn't appear on television with faked up photographs of Brueckner's van alleging that was how it looked in 2007?

You mean Amaral didn't appear on television with with a faked up photograph of Brueckner in dreadlocks which he alleged represented Brueckner's appearance at the time of Madeleine's disappearance?

Think you should perhaps brush up on what constitutes libel. 

What it isn't is something the truth of which you are in denial.

What it isn't is something for which the evidence supplies proof of the truth.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2022, 09:44:42 AM
You mean Amaral didn't appear on television with faked up photographs of Brueckner's van alleging that was how it looked in 2007?

You mean Amaral didn't appear on television with with a faked up photograph of Brueckner in dreadlocks which he alleged represented Brueckner's appearance at the time of Madeleine's disappearance?

Think you should perhaps brush up on what constitutes libel. 

What it isn't is something the truth of which you are in denial.

What it isn't is something for which the evidence supplies proof of the truth.

I think it's just as libelous to accuse Amaral of knowing 'the truth' and trying to cover it up as it is to accuse the McCanns of the same.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2022, 09:53:15 AM
You think that Amaral knows what heppened to Madeleine McCann and has spent years trying prevent anyone finding out? I think that statement is libelous.

Change the wording of your post slightly.

Remove the word "Amaral" and substitute "Kate" or "Gerry" or both of them.

That would be "libellous" because false statements constitute libel. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 18, 2022, 09:53:37 AM
I think it's just as libelous to accuse Amaral of knowing 'the truth' and trying to cover it up as it is to accuse the McCanns of the same.
Is it libellous to accuse Amaral of being a liar?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2022, 09:57:15 AM
I think it's just as libelous to accuse Amaral of knowing 'the truth' and trying to cover it up as it is to accuse the McCanns of the same.

You really do not understand what constitutes libel do you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2022, 09:59:42 AM
Is it libellous to accuse Amaral of being a liar?

The Portuguese Court gave him a criminal conviction for perjury.  So they most definitely seemed to think so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2022, 10:26:39 AM
You really do not understand what constitutes libel do you.

So it's not libelous to accuse the McCanns of knowing the truth and covering it up? Isn't that why they sued Amaral for damaging their reputations though?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 18, 2022, 10:50:56 AM
You think that Amaral knows what heppened to Madeleine McCann and has spent years trying prevent anyone finding out? I think that statement is libelous.
I've re-read Brietta's post several times and I have yet to find the bit where she says Amaral knows what heppened (sic) to Madeleine - can you highlight it please?  Isn't it a fact though that Amaral believes he does know what happened to Madeleine and has made a career out of trying to persuade anyone that will listen that he knows what happened, even to the point of deliberately muddying the waters of the current investigation by putting out false information about the suspect?  Is that libellous?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2022, 11:29:12 AM
I've re-read Brietta's post several times and I have yet to find the bit where she says Amaral knows what heppened (sic) to Madeleine - can you highlight it please?  Isn't it a fact though that Amaral believes he does know what happened to Madeleine and has made a career out of trying to persuade anyone that will listen that he knows what happened, even to the point of deliberately muddying the waters of the current investigation by putting out false information about the suspect?  Is that libellous?

I think this is a man who has spent years demonstrating that he will do whatever it takes to prevent the truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann from being discovered.http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg681071#msg681071

Maybe that doesn't actually say that he knew what the 'truth' was. Maybe, like the McCanns, he just believed he knew. So 'the truth' has yet to be confirmed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 18, 2022, 11:32:30 AM
You mean Amaral didn't appear on television with faked up photographs of Brueckner's van alleging that was how it looked in 2007?

You mean Amaral didn't appear on television with with a faked up photograph of Brueckner in dreadlocks which he alleged represented Brueckner's appearance at the time of Madeleine's disappearance?

Think you should perhaps brush up on what constitutes libel. 

What it isn't is something the truth of which you are in denial.

What it isn't is something for which the evidence supplies proof of the truth.

The first two points of your post, who has dismissed the descriptions, certainly the BKA haven't, once again where is the description of CB on the 3/05/2007 .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2022, 11:36:27 AM
So it's not libelous to accuse the McCanns of knowing the truth and covering it up? Isn't that why they sued Amaral for damaging their reputations though?

Amaral has never ceased to libel the McCanns and all connected with them.

While publicly defending the paedophile and rapist who is the police prime suspect in Madeleine's case Amaral continues to traduce Madeleine's parents with the vilest of slurs.

Part of the reason legal action was taken against Amaral was because Madeleine's parents believed his libels were harming their search for their missing daughter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 18, 2022, 11:37:01 AM
I think this is a man who has spent years demonstrating that he will do whatever it takes to prevent the truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann from being discovered.http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg681071#msg681071

Maybe that doesn't actually say that he knew what the 'truth' was. Maybe, like the McCanns, he just believed he knew. So 'the truth' has yet to be confirmed.
So, you misrepresented what Brietta wrote, at least you admit it. 
Believing your child was abducted by persons unknown and promoting that theory = not libellous
Believing a child was killed and  her body disposed of by her parents and promoting that theory = libellous. 
Do you see the difference now?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2022, 12:41:39 PM
The first two points of your post, who has dismissed the descriptions, certainly the BKA haven't, once again where is the description of CB on the 3/05/2007 .

Forgive me - I really do not understand your post and don't have the time to puzzle what you are on about.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 18, 2022, 12:46:30 PM
Forgive me - I really do not understand your post and don't have the time to puzzle what you are on about.
It seems as though Barrier is under the impression that Bruckner may have got himself some rasta hair extensions and a new paint job for the van in the few weeks between the video showing him with short hair and the 3rd May 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2022, 03:16:40 PM
So, you misrepresented what Brietta wrote, at least you admit it. 
Believing your child was abducted by persons unknown and promoting that theory = not libellous
Believing a child was killed and  her body disposed of by her parents and promoting that theory = libellous. 
Do you see the difference now?

What about writing a book explaining how and why a police investigation reached the conclusion that a child wasn't abducted, but that she died and her parents decided not to surrender her body?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2022, 03:22:35 PM
What about writing a book explaining how and why a police investigation reached the conclusion that a child wasn't abducted, but that she died and her parents decided not to surrender her body?

If your  evidence wasnt sound ...as amarals wasnt..it would be libellous. If you quoted parts of the files but failed to give a true overall picture.as amaral did  ..that too would be libellous
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 18, 2022, 04:04:30 PM
What about writing a book explaining how and why a police investigation reached the conclusion that a child wasn't abducted, but that she died and her parents decided not to surrender her body?
What about it?What if HCW jacked it all in tomorrow and wrote a book about how CB abducted and murdered Madeleine would that not be libellous in your view?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2022, 04:56:55 PM
If your  evidence wasnt sound ...as amarals wasnt..it would be libellous. If you quoted parts of the files but failed to give a true overall picture.as amaral did  ..that too would be libellous

Whatever your opinion is, at the moment Amaral has not been found guilty of libel.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2022, 05:09:02 PM
Whatever your opinion is, at the moment Amaral has not been found guilty of libel.

I didnt say he had...but what he has stated is libel per se
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2022, 05:25:32 PM
I didnt say he had...but what he has stated is libel per se

In your opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2022, 05:38:42 PM
In your opinion.

No its not opinion...its fact. You obviously dont understand what libel per se means...try google
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2022, 05:45:41 PM
It seems as though Barrier is under the impression that Bruckner may have got himself some rasta hair extensions and a new paint job for the van in the few weeks between the video showing him with short hair and the 3rd May 2007.

Thanks for your interpretation SV - I don't know what Barrier's post meant - but I don't think that can be the answer.

To make what he says true would require Amaral to have prior knowledge of which had he known and investigated would have appeared somewhere in the files if not the internet ones we have seen but the real police files accessible to police investigators.

It just doesn't explain how Amaral was able to make the assertions he did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2022, 06:00:28 PM
What about writing a book explaining how and why a police investigation reached the conclusion that a child wasn't abducted, but that she died and her parents decided not to surrender her body?

Isn't that precisely what Amaral did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 19, 2022, 09:40:48 AM
Thanks for your interpretation SV - I don't know what Barrier's post meant - but I don't think that can be the answer.

To make what he says true would require Amaral to have prior knowledge of
  • Brueckner's identity circa 2007
  • his cartooned vehicle circa 2007
  • his physical appearance 2007
which had he known and investigated would have appeared somewhere in the files if not the internet ones we have seen but the real police files accessible to police investigators.

It just doesn't explain how Amaral was able to make the assertions he did.

Was CB a known sex offender at the time, if the answer is yes then his name could well be in the unreleased files, which Amaral might well have known of.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2022, 10:21:02 AM
Or that he was a bit skint and was being paid for his appearance and the information he said he had. Not everything’s a conspiracy?

It can be called a conspiracy if someone purposely tries to derail an investigation with made up information.   Can you come up with any plausible explanation for Amaral's actions?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2022, 11:27:20 AM
It can be called a conspiracy if someone purposely tries to derail an investigation with made up information.   Can you come up with any plausible explanation for Amaral's actions?

You can't have a conspiracy of one. You need at least two.  8(>((
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2022, 11:33:44 AM
Was CB a known sex offender at the time, if the answer is yes then his name could well be in the unreleased files, which Amaral might well have known of.

My post covers that eventuality.  "... the real police files accessible to police investigators."  Armchair detectives like us had no access to them - but the police investigators always did.

Therefore if Amaral had known of Brueckner from those official files - so would every other investigative officer.

Apparently Brueckner's name didn't come into it until Scotland Yard sought information about him from the BKA in 2013 when they checked the phone data.

Which raises the very pertinent question I asked regarding Amaral and Brueckner and from where Amaral got the information about Brueckner's van and Brueckner's appearance which enabled him to appear on TV with the mocked up images he had.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2022, 11:43:13 AM
It can be called a conspiracy if someone purposely tries to derail an investigation with made up information.   Can you come up with any plausible explanation for Amaral's actions?

In my book Amaral's actions rank as interfering with an active police investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2022, 12:15:59 PM
You can't have a conspiracy of one. You need at least two.  8(>((

Who give him the photo's?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on April 19, 2022, 12:54:25 PM
Who give him the photo's?

Good question.   You are a thinker, Lace.   

Always go back one is my motto too.  Look at the source, actions start somewhere and I doubt Amaral had the nouse to produce them himself.
And then maybe go back another step, or two , or ten.

Yep, who gave him the photos?   I could have an educated guess, but no proof alas.      All in my honest opinion only. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2022, 03:43:00 PM
Who give him the photo's?

Who gave Amaral the information which he used as a wrecking ball?

Someone in the loop fed him the information of where the process was going.  That someone also gave him the identity of the suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 19, 2022, 03:55:00 PM
Who give him the photo's?
There were rumours at the time that he had them developed by a contact called Max Spielman.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2022, 04:15:47 PM
Who gave Amaral the information which he used as a wrecking ball?

Someone in the loop fed him the information of where the process was going.  That someone also gave him the identity of the suspect.

Do you think he has no contacts in the PJ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on April 19, 2022, 04:23:43 PM
Do you think he has no contacts in the PJ?

I doubt these photos were fabricated by the PJ.    Why should honest PJ Officers (and there are loads amongst the dross)  produce false photos?   Why should they when the finger would point at them as totally inefficient earlier on?


It seems my suspect with his followers has huge clout when it comes to falsifying any documents and videos etc.
We have witnessed it on here many times.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2022, 04:50:55 PM
Do you think he has no contacts in the PJ?

Amaral is a civilian.

Certainly there should be no 'contacts' within the PJ supplying him with classified information in an active investigation.

I am surprised you do not see this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2022, 05:07:50 PM
Amaral is a civilian.

Certainly there should be no 'contacts' within the PJ supplying him with classified information in an active investigation.

I am surprised you do not see this.

Perhaps someone wanted it known that a 'patsy' was in the offing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 19, 2022, 05:21:50 PM
Perhaps someone wanted it known that a 'patsy' was in the offing.
what someone in the PJ wanted it known so supplied faked images?  That’s appalling!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2022, 05:58:52 PM
Perhaps someone wanted it known that a 'patsy' was in the offing.

I don't think you are aware of just exactly how informative that post is on so very many levels.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 19, 2022, 08:27:16 PM
Perhaps someone wanted it known that a 'patsy' was in the offing.

I find the patsy a crackpot idea.

Who do you think contacted the BKA and asked them to provide  a patsy and why do you think the BKA would agree. what would convince the BKA to have up to 100 officers working on a case if it wasnt genuine
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 19, 2022, 11:13:31 PM
I find the patsy a crackpot idea.

Who do you think contacted the BKA and asked them to provide  a patsy and why do you think the BKA would agree. what would convince the BKA to have up to 100 officers working on a case if it wasnt genuine
It never ceases to amaze me the logic-defying theories sceptics will entertain as possibilities, anything goes in order to preserve the “parents dunnit” angle.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2022, 08:32:54 AM
In April 2019 Amaral said that a German paedophile who was in prison in Germany would be accused over Madeleine's disappearance. He also said that the man was actually a scapegoat.

I don't think Amaral was likely to have learned anything from Operation Grange or the BKA, so, imo, someone in the PJ let him know what was going on. Someone who wasn't convinced that the German paedophile was guilty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2022, 08:37:17 AM
In April 2019 Amaral said that a German paedophile who was in prison in Germany would be accused over Madeleine's disappearance. He also said that the man was actually a scapegoat.

I don't think Amaral was likely to have learned anything from Operation Grange or the BKA, so, imo, someone in the PJ let him know what was going on. Someone who wasn't convinced that the German paedophile was guilty.
One would have to ask 2 questions if that was the case: 1) how would anyone in the PJ know without doubt that CB was not involved and 2) who, in the PJ is intent on undermining the judicial process by leaking to the McCanns nemesis and professional sceptic?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2022, 08:59:29 AM
In April 2019 Amaral said that a German paedophile who was in prison in Germany would be accused over Madeleine's disappearance. He also said that the man was actually a scapegoat.

I don't think Amaral was likely to have learned anything from Operation Grange or the BKA, so, imo, someone in the PJ let him know what was going on. Someone who wasn't convinced that the German paedophile was guilty.
Of course there is another possibility- that the person who leaked offered no hard and fast opinion on the issue of CB’s involvement , but Amaral (using his unique powers of logical deduction, akin to that demonstrated by Inspector Clouseau) decided all by himself that CB must be a patsy.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2022, 10:08:36 AM
One would have to ask 2 questions if that was the case: 1) how would anyone in the PJ know without doubt that CB was not involved and 2) who, in the PJ is intent on undermining the judicial process by leaking to the McCanns nemesis and professional sceptic?

Once more you are changing the discussion by asking your bolded question. I said;

"Someone who wasn't convinced that the German paedophile was guilty."

As to your second comment the whistleblower (if there was one) did what s/he did because a) they had doubts and b) they were bound by judicial secrecy. Amaral wasn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2022, 10:26:35 AM
In April 2019 Amaral said that a German paedophile who was in prison in Germany would be accused over Madeleine's disappearance. He also said that the man was actually a scapegoat.

I don't think Amaral was likely to have learned anything from Operation Grange or the BKA, so, imo, someone in the PJ let him know what was going on. Someone who wasn't convinced that the German paedophile was guilty.

You make exactly the same error Amaral made in 2007 and throughout all the intervening years since.

It is not for Amaral to decide guilt or innocence.

It is not for the dregs of Amaral's cohorts still operating as law enforcement officers to decide guilt or innocence.  Nor is it the place of serving officers new or old to give out details of an active police investigation to civilians.

In fact - interference in an active police investigation is a flagrant breach of Portuguese law by a man who obviously does not believe the rule of law is applicable to him.

The evidence is the benchmark here and only if and when that evidence results in proof will the decision on guilt or innocence of the suspect be decided.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2022, 10:49:18 AM
In April 2019 Amaral said that a German paedophile who was in prison in Germany would be accused over Madeleine's disappearance. He also said that the man was actually a scapegoat.

I don't think Amaral was likely to have learned anything from Operation Grange or the BKA, so, imo, someone in the PJ let him know what was going on. Someone who wasn't convinced that the German paedophile was guilty.

You are making a massive assumption.. That the person who told amaral about CB thought he was a patsy.
The PJ knew CB was being investigated... This was leaked and it was Amaral who came up with the ide of a patsy... Is far more likely imo. I think the idea of the Germans supplying a patsy is daft.. I don't see any reason they would do this
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2022, 10:52:06 AM
Amaral has been abusing Portuguese Law for much longer than fifteen years and sadly getting away with it imo.

Fortunately, Germany is now involved.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 20, 2022, 11:00:18 AM
You are making a massive assumption.. That the person who told amaral about CB thought he was a patsy.
The PJ knew CB was being investigated... This was leaked and it was Amaral who came up with the ide of a patsy... Is far more likely imo. I think the idea of the Germans supplying a patsy is daft.. I don't see any reason they would do this
I think the term is being used out of context. This 'patsy' is actually just not the nonce you are looking for (because he doesn't exist). Not a patsy in the sense of the word as we know it, someone just to pin the blame on, but Amaral had the other part right; convenient. In the wide vicinity of the right place at the right time. Nonce, yes, thief, yes, actually did it, no, that's pretty obvious now.
Circumstantial evidence is dependent upon cogency on the unlikelihood of coincidence. Clearly HCW's evidence does not meet their own legal thresholds to even force an arrest - and it never will.
So I suppose a convenient patsy isn't a bad description after all, Snr Dr.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2022, 11:04:31 AM
I think the term is being used out of context. This 'patsy' is actually just not the nonce you are looking for (because he doesn't exist). Not a patsy in the sense of the word as we know it, someone just to pin the blame on, but Amaral had the other part right; convenient. In the wide vicinity of the right place at the right time. Nonce, yes, thief, yes, actually did it, no, that's pretty obvious now.
Circumstantial evidence is dependent upon cogency on the unlikelihood of coincidence. Clearly HCW's evidence does not meet their own legal thresholds to even force an arrest - and it never will.
So I suppose a convenient patsy isn't a bad description after all, Snr Dr.

Yup. even when eventually released from prison, uncharged, he'll  still be known as  the 'one that did it'
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2022, 11:05:40 AM
Once more you are changing the discussion by asking your bolded question. I said;

"Someone who wasn't convinced that the German paedophile was guilty."

As to your second comment the whistleblower (if there was one) did what s/he did because a) they had doubts and b) they were bound by judicial secrecy. Amaral wasn't.
On what basis would a police officer in the PJ know enough of the evidence against CB to decide it was unlikely he was guilty and a mere patsy instead?  Why would "having doubts" be a good enough reason to attempt to scupper the German investigation by divulging such information to Dr Blabbermouth himself?  That's seriously unprofessional, and I sincerely hope (but also completely doubt) that the PJ have mounted an internal investigation to find out the identity of this mole in their midst.  Seeing as how speculation is no longer anathema to you, perhaps you would like to have a go at speculating why the PJ appear not to be investigating the parents and seem to be assisting the Germans with their investigation into CB...?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2022, 11:06:28 AM
You are making a massive assumption.. That the person who told amaral about CB thought he was a patsy.
The PJ knew CB was being investigated... This was leaked and it was Amaral who came up with the ide of a patsy... Is far more likely imo. I think the idea of the Germans supplying a patsy is daft.. I don't see any reason they would do this
Exactly, I made the same observation earlier but it was ignored.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2022, 11:09:14 AM
Once more you are changing the discussion by asking your bolded question. I said;

"Someone who wasn't convinced that the German paedophile was guilty."

As to your second comment the whistleblower (if there was one) did what s/he did because a) they had doubts and b) they were bound by judicial secrecy. Amaral wasn't.

Amaral never let the issue of judicial secrecy stand in the way of a good story did he - although he did pay lip service to it when it suited him.

Which is why he must have been really desperate to break his cover to get the lie of the physical appearance of the prime suspect into the public domain.

I really don't think I will be alone in thinking that very odd indeed nor do I think it will be as easily airbrushed out of history as it is from sceptic lore.

It is a really big deal to purposely release and promote misleading descriptive information about a suspect when the real police are in the process of collecting as much evidence about him as they can.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2022, 11:10:10 AM
Yup. even when eventually released from prison, uncharged, he'll  still be known as  the 'one that did it'

That will be forever applied to The McCanns if your prediction is correct.

I can only hope that The Germans keep tabs on him.  Guilty or not, Brueckner is a dangerous man.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2022, 11:10:56 AM
I'd like to know how smartarse sceptics know for a fact that CB didn't do it.  What is the clinching evidence upon which they can base such confidence in his innocence.  Surely even the lowest intelligence sceptic must realise that an absence of evidence does not clear the man of possible involvement - in fact they MUST know this as it's what they've been telling us about the McCanns for years!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 20, 2022, 11:11:29 AM
Amaral never let the issue of judicial secrecy stand in the way of a good story did he - although he did pay lip service to it when it suited him.

Which is why he must have been really desperate to break his cover to get the lie of the physical appearance of the prime suspect into the public domain.

I really don't think I will be alone in thinking that very odd indeed nor do I think it will be as easily airbrushed out of history as it is from sceptic lore.

It is a really big deal to purposely release and promote misleading descriptive information about a suspect when the real police are in the process of collecting as much evidence about him as they can.
The libel just keeps coming....Libelapalooza.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2022, 11:13:24 AM
That's great.
The whole post is libelous.
And so is yours. It's a libelfest. We should rename the thread - Mod and Ex Mod Libelfest

Report it then.  Although you don't appear to understand Libel either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 20, 2022, 11:13:36 AM
That will be forever applied to The McCanns if your prediction is correct.

I can only hope that The Germans keep tabs on him.  Guilty or not, Brueckner is a dangerous man.
You're enabling him by propagating the online myth that will make him millions, that will provide him the resources to do whatever he wants.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 20, 2022, 11:15:34 AM
Report it then.  Although you don't appear to understand Libel either.
Crack on. You're in a fortunate position that you would fall in to the category of 'online troll', so will probably be under the radar of libel action, with bigger fish for his legal team to fry.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 20, 2022, 11:21:40 AM
I'd like to know how smartarse sceptics know for a fact that CB didn't do it.  What is the clinching evidence upon which they can base such confidence in his innocence.  Surely even the lowest intelligence sceptic must realise that an absence of evidence does not clear the man of possible involvement - in fact they MUST know this as it's what they've been telling us about the McCanns for years!
There's only one smart arsed sceptic here, but you're not reading my posts, but reading them anyway.
I know he didn't do it. 'It' didn't happen, never mind him doing 'it'. I also know they can't even cobble together the evidence to arrest and question - that's a reeeeaaalllyyy low bar by the way, you only need reasonable suspicion, HECK, they could've even questione dhim as a witness, but they blew that too. This crap about 'showing zee handz' is just a giggle really.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2022, 11:22:39 AM
I think the term is being used out of context. This 'patsy' is actually just not the nonce you are looking for (because he doesn't exist). Not a patsy in the sense of the word as we know it, someone just to pin the blame on, but Amaral had the other part right; convenient. In the wide vicinity of the right place at the right time. Nonce, yes, thief, yes, actually did it, no, that's pretty obvious now.
Circumstantial evidence is dependent upon cogency on the unlikelihood of coincidence. Clearly HCW's evidence does not meet their own legal thresholds to even force an arrest - and it never will.
So I suppose a convenient patsy isn't a bad description after all, Snr Dr.

So how would Amaral come to the conclusion that CB didn't do it?   I'm confused as Amaral said the Police knocked on his door but he was out.   Did they search for him?  Amaral says they ruled him out,  how?  Did they check his phone? If they did find him,  then they would have seen he didn't have dreadlocks.  If they found his van they would see it didn't have cartoon characters.   Can you explain all that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2022, 11:23:37 AM
Report it then.  Although you don't appear to understand Libel either.
It's like watching a demented parrot squawking "libel" without any understanding of what it's saying- hilarious!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 20, 2022, 11:25:40 AM
So how would Amaral come to the conclusion that CB didn't do it?   I'm confused as Amaral said the Police knocked on his door but he was out.   Did they search for him?  Amaral says they ruled him out,  how?  Did they check his phone? If they did find him,  then they would have seen he didn't have dreadlocks.  If they found his van they would see it didn't have cartoon characters.   Can you explain all that?
Yes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 20, 2022, 11:26:37 AM
It's like watching a demented parrot squawking "libel" without any understanding of what it's saying- hilarious!
How do you know, you're not reading my demented squawking?
But I'm glad you find them fun.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2022, 11:30:43 AM
Crack on. You're in a fortunate position that you would fall in to the category of 'online troll', so will probably be under the radar of libel action, with bigger fish for his legal team to fry.

People like you don't frighten me and never have.  While I at least know what I am talking about.

Amaral is a Convicted Liar and a Convicted Thief.  He is also a Philanderer.  All documented before Madeleine disappeared.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 20, 2022, 11:34:24 AM
People like you don't frighten me and never have.  While I at least know what I am talking about.

Amaral is a Convicted Liar and a Convicted Thief.  He is also a Philanderer.  All documented before Madeleine disappeared.

All mouthy on the small fry ticket. Doubling down will only make it worse in the long run.
But I'll report it anyway, cheers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2022, 11:35:53 AM
It's like watching a demented parrot squawking "libel" without any understanding of what it's saying- hilarious!

It is rather like that.

We can now only wait for me to get sanctioned.  But I won't care about that any more than you did.

Sheesh, nine years of doing my best.  What a waste of time that was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2022, 11:41:37 AM
It is rather like that.

We can now only wait for me to get sanctioned.  But I won't care about that any more than you did.

Sheesh, nine years of doing my best.  What a waste of time that was.
You've done nothing wrong, nor has Brietta.  Just ignore the troll, it's better that way.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on April 20, 2022, 11:46:36 AM
You've done nothing wrong, nor has Brietta.  Just ignore the troll, it's better that way.
Squawkety squawk.....Dr Snr Amaral.....squawk......millionaire now. The irony.



Squawk.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2022, 12:04:50 PM
All mouthy on the small fry ticket. Doubling down will only make it worse in the long run.
But I'll report it anyway, cheers.

I was born a Mouthy Cow.  East End Cockney.  I will always be better at it than you are.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2022, 12:07:48 PM
Squawkety squawk.....Dr Snr Amaral.....squawk......millionaire now. The irony.



Squawk.

Amaral isn't a millionaire.  His money has been sequestered.  Probably to make sure he pays his colossal debts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2022, 12:10:10 PM
Amaral isn't a millionaire.  His money has been sequestered.  Probably to make sure he pays his colossal debts.
With all Amaral's millions he's bound to be putting together a bunch libel actions against you, me and Brietta right now.  Quivering like a jelly here, how about you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
You've done nothing wrong, nor has Brietta.  Just ignore the troll, it's better that way.

I am not sure about me.  It suddenly all went from bad to worse and I still haven't worked out for why.

But I can't say that I am losing sleep about it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2022, 12:20:32 PM
With all Amaral's millions he's bound to be putting together a bunch libel actions against you, me and Brietta right now.  Quivering like a jelly here, how about you?


I have just been through an hour of even trying to Libel Amaeal.  Don't expect to hear from me any time soon.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on April 20, 2022, 03:39:14 PM
Please keep comments within the rules. Ta
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on April 20, 2022, 05:19:13 PM
I was born a Mouthy Cow.  East End Cockney.  I will always be better at it than you are.


Words on a screen, they mean nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2022, 05:56:04 PM

Words on a screen, they mean nothing.

The thread title is Goncalo Amaral.  Please confine your "words on the screen" to sentences featuring that somewhere.
Thank you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on April 20, 2022, 06:35:38 PM
Yup. even when eventually released from prison, uncharged, he'll  still be known as  the 'one that did it'
Same as Madeleine’s parents, then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2022, 06:45:06 PM
Same as Madeleine’s parents, then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2022, 06:46:04 PM
Same as Madeleine’s parents, then?

Yup,  life can be a bummer
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on April 20, 2022, 06:55:28 PM
Yup,  life can be a bummer
Has life been unpleasant to you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2022, 06:58:37 PM
Has life been unpleasant to you?

yes. But I learned to live with it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2022, 10:54:24 PM
Sandra Felgueiras says of Goncalo Amaral >

But the question I ask is, does any good cop start by identifying a suspect and then force his theory to fit into the theory he preconceived?

No.

No good investigator does that.

But Gonçalo Amaral did it.  And insists on doing so.

And that's why there are no eternal truths.



For over fifteen years now there are still those who allow themselves to be governed by the story Amaral concocted to suit his own prejudices.

It is surely long past the time to accept that his technique wrong and the result was prejudicial to any hope there might have been for recovering Madeleine or finding the perpetrator of the crime against her.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2022, 11:15:51 PM
Sandra Felgueiras says of Goncalo Amaral >

I have my well-educated opinion on this matter, but while I listen, my job is to report facts, not rumours, nor convictions.

But my real duty to public opinion is no less when we are talking about a politician or a police officer.
Or a former police officer who relentlessly influenced the public opinion.

For this reason, in 2008, when I read all the volumes of the investigation conducted by Gonçalo Amaral, I found that the alleged evidence he collected against the McCann couple was not evidence but assumptions. A kind of "copy-paste" of what I had done in the Joana case investigation.

The so-called evidence found by the dogs in the room of the apartment where they vacationed and in McCann’s rental car a month after their daughter’s disappearance has not been lab-confirmed to belong to Madeleine.
And it was this irrefutable fact by science that led the Portuguese justice system to eliminate them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on May 05, 2022, 07:58:04 AM
Sandra Felgueiras says of Goncalo Amaral >

I have my well-educated opinion on this matter, but while I listen, my job is to report facts, not rumours, nor convictions.

But my real duty to public opinion is no less when we are talking about a politician or a police officer.
Or a former police officer who relentlessly influenced the public opinion.

For this reason, in 2008, when I read all the volumes of the investigation conducted by Gonçalo Amaral, I found that the alleged evidence he collected against the McCann couple was not evidence but assumptions. A kind of "copy-paste" of what I had done in the Joana case investigation.

The so-called evidence found by the dogs in the room of the apartment where they vacationed and in McCann’s rental car a month after their daughter’s disappearance has not been lab-confirmed to belong to Madeleine.
And it was this irrefutable fact by science that led the Portuguese justice system to eliminate them.

I've summarised the statement for everyone: WaaaaAaaahhh...the nasty policeman lied to me......waaahhaaaahh.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on May 05, 2022, 07:59:41 AM
Sandra Felgueiras says of Goncalo Amaral >

But the question I ask is, does any good cop start by identifying a suspect and then force his theory to fit into the theory he preconceived?

No.

No good investigator does that.

But Gonçalo Amaral did it.  And insists on doing so.

And that's why there are no eternal truths.



For over fifteen years now there are still those who allow themselves to be governed by the story Amaral concocted to suit his own prejudices.

It is surely long past the time to accept that his technique wrong and the result was prejudicial to any hope there might have been for recovering Madeleine or finding the perpetrator of the crime against her.

Lest we forget, stranger abduction is a theory.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2022, 08:20:37 AM
Lest we forget, stranger abduction is a theory.

Clutching at straws... The only suspect /arguido is CB
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2022, 08:23:38 AM
I've summarised the statement for everyone: WaaaaAaaahhh...the nasty policeman lied to me......waaahhaaaahh.

Making puerile posts such as the above cannot obliterate the proven facts of Amaral's perfidious lies not the least of which is his criminal conviction for perjury which was confirmed by the courts which rejected his appeal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2022, 08:24:56 AM

Tis amazing the number of times Amaral turns up in just about everything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2022, 08:26:16 AM
Tis amazing the number of times Amaral turns up in just about everything.

It is Eleanor…and he hasn’t even been relevant for 15 years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2022, 08:30:13 AM
Lest we forget, stranger abduction is a theory.
Yes, the only plausible, logicsl one and the one which three police forces from three different countries are pursuing to the exclusion of all other, lesser theories.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 08:32:50 AM
Yes, the only plausible, logicsl one and the one which three police forces from three different countries are pursuing to the exclusion of all other, lesser theories.

...And they've presented not a shred of tangible abduction evidence in the last 15 years, so we'll just have to take their word for it that Maddie was abducted.

No, I'll pass thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2022, 08:43:27 AM
Lest we forget, stranger abduction is a theory.

There really isn't any point in making the attempt to separate you from the amateurish original conceptions and Amaral's master class exhibition of how not to conduct a missing child investigation all outlined by him chapter and verse.

Like him ~ you have made your mind up and you are sticking with it.  That's fine; he no longer has any influence on the direction if Madeleine's investigation and you never had or are likely to have any either.

Best you cuddle into the comfort of your blanket of misconceptions and pithy sayings because I think from your point of view, the situation is about to get a lot worse, as already recognised by Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2022, 08:49:56 AM
Tis amazing the number of times Amaral turns up in just about everything.

My opinion is that Amaral is the root and branch.  The information regarding Bruckner in the early stages of the case and which he was at pains to divulge gave me a lot of pause for thought as do his antics from 2019 onwards.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2022, 08:56:12 AM
It is Eleanor…and he hasn’t even been relevant for 15 years.

True.  The only problem being that he keeps on sticking his oar in.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2022, 08:57:40 AM
Yes, the only plausible, logicsl one and the one which three police forces from three different countries are pursuing to the exclusion of all other, lesser theories.

Someone is stuck in a time warp.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2022, 08:58:52 AM
...And they've presented not a shred of tangible abduction evidence in the last 15 years, so we'll just have to take their word for it that Maddie was abducted.

No, I'll pass thanks.

That post is way off the mark.

A significant piece of evidence which had sat there unobserved since 3rd May 2007 was revealed in the phone data present in the files.

The Portuguese judicial police could not be any clearer in their support of Madeleine's abduction - they have declared a named suspect for the crime.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2022, 08:59:25 AM
True.  The only problem being that he keeps on sticking his oar in.

And the media keep on listening. They seem to value his input even if others don’t.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2022, 09:01:02 AM
My opinion is that Amaral is the root and branch.  The information regarding Bruckner in the early stages of the case and which he was at pains to divulge gave me a lot of pause for thought as do his antics from 2019 onwards.

I have been worried about Amaral for some considerable time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 09:02:36 AM
That post is way off the mark.

A significant piece of evidence which had sat there unobserved since 3rd May 2007 was revealed in the phone data present in the files.

The Portuguese judicial police could not be any clearer in their support of Madeleine's abduction - they have declared a named suspect for the crime.

Brueckner was somewhere within 20 odd miles of a phone mast.

What does that prove exactly?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2022, 09:11:06 AM
Brueckner was somewhere within 20 odd miles of a phone mast.

What does that prove exactly?

Obviously the sceptic 'thinking' is that no-one should have bothered collecting inconvenient phone data evidence.  Like everything else pertaining to Madeleine's case all tried and tested investigative principals merely exist for sceptics to rubbish and Amaral to botch.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 09:13:30 AM
Brueckner was somewhere within 20 odd miles of a phone mast.

What does that prove exactly?


Obviously the sceptic 'thinking' is that no-one should have bothered collecting inconvenient phone data evidence.  Like everything else pertaining to Madeleine's case all tried and tested investigative principals merely exist for sceptics to rubbish and Amaral to botch.


You could have just said 'nothing', would have saved a few key strokes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 09:14:57 AM


Then, a year later, Brueckner brags to his criminal pal that 'he knows what happened to Maddie'

Real solid stuff, isn't it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on May 05, 2022, 09:33:21 AM
That post is way off the mark.

A significant piece of evidence which had sat there unobserved since 3rd May 2007 was revealed in the phone data present in the files.

The Portuguese judicial police could not be any clearer in their support of Madeleine's abduction - they have declared a named suspect for the crime.

No it didn't OG painstakingly went through it all to get to the three locals, it obviously never raised suspicion, unless of course they went in with blinkers on and limited themselves to a tiny margin of time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 09:53:07 AM
No it didn't OG painstakingly went through it all to get to the three locals, it obviously never raised suspicion, unless of course they went in with blinkers on and limited themselves to a tiny margin of time.

If there had been a flurry of phone activity between 8:30pm & 10:00pm, while Brueckner & his accomplice look out man were carrying out the pre-planned abduction, funded by Vladamir Putin,  that might have aroused suspicion.

But there wasn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on May 05, 2022, 09:54:49 AM
There really isn't any point in making the attempt to separate you from the amateurish original conceptions and Amaral's master class exhibition of how not to conduct a missing child investigation all outlined by him chapter and verse.

Like him ~ you have made your mind up and you are sticking with it.  That's fine; he no longer has any influence on the direction if Madeleine's investigation and you never had or are likely to have any either.

Best you cuddle into the comfort of your blanket of misconceptions and pithy sayings because I think from your point of view, the situation is about to get a lot worse, as already recognised by Amaral.

Ranting at me won't change the FACT that stranger abduction is a theory.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 09:57:09 AM
Ranting at me won't change the FACT that stranger abduction is a theory.

No, Redwood said it was a criminal act by a stranger, he wouldn't say that without having concrete evidence of such.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on May 05, 2022, 10:29:32 AM
No, Redwood said it was a criminal act by a stranger, he wouldn't say that without having concrete evidence of such.

Redwood wasn't required to identify the crime, he was told what it was he was investigating imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2022, 10:31:49 AM
Ranting at me won't change the FACT that stranger abduction is a theory.
Yes, the only plausible, logical one and the one which three police forces from three different countries are pursuing to the exclusion of all other, lesser theories
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 10:34:52 AM
Yes, the only plausible, logical one and the one which three police forces from three different countries are pursuing to the exclusion of all other, lesser theories

And any day now Wolters is going to prove them right.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 10:38:03 AM
That van evidence is going to nail Brueckner isn't it SV.

Any ideas what that evidence might be, bearing in mind it isn't dna or forensic?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on May 05, 2022, 11:17:11 AM
Yes, the only plausible, logical one and the one which three police forces from three different countries are pursuing to the exclusion of all other, lesser theories

Does that make a theory correct or have police pursued incorrect theories in the past? I do believe that they have, and have got innocent people convicted also. They're called miscarriages of justice.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2022, 11:23:18 AM
Does that make a theory correct or have police pursued incorrect theories in the past? I do believe that they have, and have got innocent people convicted also. They're called miscarriages of justice.

Like Leonor Cipriano do you mean?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2022, 11:29:10 AM
Does that make a theory correct or have police pursued incorrect theories in the past? I do believe that they have, and have got innocent people convicted also. They're called miscarriages of justice.

As I've said many many times it all depends on the evidence.
You seem to want to assume before he's even been interviewed it will be an unfair verdict.
MWT has made a, real fool if himself by declaring him innocent without seeing the evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2022, 11:36:54 AM
As I've said many many times it all depends on the evidence.
You seem to want to assume before he's even been interviewed it will be an unfair verdict.
MWT has made a, real fool if himself by declaring him innocent without seeing the evidence

He has been questioned. He said nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 11:48:30 AM
Like Leonor Cipriano do you mean?

Joana was abducted wasn't she Eleanor  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 11:50:28 AM
As I've said many many times it all depends on the evidence.
You seem to want to assume before he's even been interviewed it will be an unfair verdict.
MWT has made a, real fool if himself by declaring him innocent without seeing the evidence

Whereas you nailed your colours to Wolters mast having carefully examined all the evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2022, 11:58:52 AM
Does that make a theory correct or have police pursued incorrect theories in the past? I do believe that they have, and have got innocent people convicted also. They're called miscarriages of justice.
I'm not aware of any miscarriages of justice that have involved the collective efforts of at least 3 international police forces investigating over the course of many years, are you? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 12:04:05 PM
I'm not aware of any miscarriages of justice that have involved the collective efforts of at least 3 international police forces investigating over the course of many years, are you?

And how are those collective efforts going?

Got plenty to show from it haven't they.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on May 05, 2022, 12:24:56 PM
My opinion is that Amaral is the root and branch.  The information regarding Bruckner in the early stages of the case and which he was at pains to divulge gave me a lot of pause for thought as do his antics from 2019 onwards.
Really, you've never mentioned it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: The General on May 05, 2022, 12:29:08 PM
As I've said many many times it all depends on the evidence.
You seem to want to assume before he's even been interviewed it will be an unfair verdict.
MWT has made a, real fool if himself by declaring him innocent without seeing the evidence
It appears that an often-wrong, quasi-investigative journalist has managed to verify CB's alibi. A feat which HCW et al passed over due to not wanting to reveal their hand until two weeks ago. Perhaps they'd be in a different place now if they hadn't been so taciturn.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2022, 12:46:11 PM
It appears that an often-wrong, quasi-investigative journalist has managed to verify CB's alibi. A feat which HCW et al passed over due to not wanting to reveal their hand until two weeks ago. Perhaps they'd be in a different place now if they hadn't been so taciturn.

afaiaa...he hasnt even spoken to her and she has not confirmed any details...dates. it seems the germans have interviewed her and theres nio alibi.

MWT has made a fool of himself...judging by his tweet he realises that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 05, 2022, 01:04:17 PM
Yes, the only plausible, logicsl one and the one which three police forces from three different countries are pursuing to the exclusion of all other, lesser theories.

SY are still persuing mine.  Of that I am pretty sure.  Clues that I can't share, but I will someday.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 05, 2022, 01:09:48 PM
I have been worried about Amaral for some considerable time.

Me too.   Since our J4 days!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2022, 01:12:50 PM
Whereas you nailed your colours to Wolters mast having carefully examined all the evidence.

Ive said it depends on what evidence Wolters has
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 01:13:32 PM
It appears that an often-wrong, quasi-investigative journalist has managed to verify CB's alibi. A feat which HCW et al passed over due to not wanting to reveal their hand until two weeks ago. Perhaps they'd be in a different place now if they hadn't been so taciturn.

Brueckner doesn't have a solid alibi for between 8:30 & 10pm on May 3rd, but then, Wolters can't prove anyone actually abducted Maddie during that time either, so it's a stalemate.

Wolters will just have to fall back on the concrete evidence Brueckner murdered Maddie, that should still be enough to nail him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 01:15:13 PM
Ive said it depends on what evidence Wolters has

What if it's piss-weak secondhand alleged confessions?

Could well be that couldn't it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2022, 01:16:00 PM
Me too.   Since our J4 days!

Poor soul.  He isn't doing himself a lot of favours.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Admin on May 05, 2022, 01:19:27 PM
Brueckner doesn't have a solid alibi for between 8:30 & 10pm on May 3rd, but then, Wolters can't prove anyone actually abducted Maddie during that time either, so it's a stalemate.

Wolters will just have to fall back on the concrete evidence Brueckner murdered Maddie, that should still be enough to nail him.

Fifteen years on, the bottom line still is that Madeleine's fate is unknown.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Admin on May 05, 2022, 01:21:31 PM
SY are still persuing mine.  Of that I am pretty sure.  Clues that I can't share, but I will someday.

SY are no longer actively investigating Madeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 05, 2022, 01:23:41 PM
Joana was abducted wasn't she Eleanor  @)(++(*
I'm not Eleanor, but YES, almost certainly,

1)   Black saloon noticed and commented on, cruising the streets beforehand and

2)  light brown (colour from memory) camper van spotted (for several days parked with man living in it) that disappeared evening Joana did.  Found abandoned 7 miles away (approx) in PdL

3)  The picture of Madeleine on a man?womans back in Zinat, Rif mountains of Africa, also show a little girl walking who is almost certainly Joana.


European businessmen used to keep hareems of chiildren in Africe.   Webpage showing this has now been whooshed but it has been on here.  Little doubt whooshed on here too.



4)  Furthermore when I pointed out that the little girl walking who looked like Joana had Joanas very unusual legs (no inner calf to speak of) a great deal of trouble was taken to produce an image showing good calves.

That is proof that someone is hiding things.

Joana was abducted.

5)   She also had strange ankles and these were shown on the original Zinat photo.
6)   And distinctive forehead



Before I go any further, for those that don't know, I used to teach figure drawing at secondary level.   I am also an HNC qualified Engineering Designer used to drawing massive designs.   I have an unusually keen eye.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 01:24:17 PM
Fifteen years on, the bottom line still is that Madeleine's fate is unknown.

Not according to Wolters, & he's in possession of all the evidence, he's a state prosecutor so there's no way he'd be bluffing, just like Brueckner wasn't when he said he knew all about what happened to Maddie.
Him, & Raymond Hewlett.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2022, 01:28:52 PM
Fifteen years on, the bottom line still is that Madeleine's fate is unknown.

in your opinion.....from what Wolters has said he has proof oof Maddies fate.....its proving absolutely who the perp is hes working on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2022, 01:31:06 PM
Not according to Wolters, & he's in possession of all the evidence, he's a state prosecutor so there's no way he'd be bluffing, just like Brueckner wasn't when he said he knew all about what happened to Maddie.
Him, & Raymond Hewlett.

absolutely spot on
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2022, 08:18:00 PM
IMO one person who will come out very badly if it's shown that Maddie was abducted is Martin Grime.  His claims Re his dogs have misled many and he's done nothing to set the record straight. If you take his claims at face value then Maddie definitely died in the apartment and the McCanns are guilty.. But she didn't.. All my opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2022, 08:37:20 PM
absolutely spot on

I think Spam’s tongue was very firmly in his cheek.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 08:42:30 PM
IMO one person who will come out very badly if it's shown that Maddie was abducted is Martin Grime.  His claims Re his dogs have misled many and he's done nothing to set the record straight. If you take his claims at face value then Maddie definitely died in the apartment and the McCanns are guilty.. But she didn't.. All my opinion

Don't SY already have irrefutable evidence that Maddie was abducted from 5a in a criminal act by a stranger?

Isn't that pretty much what Redwood said many years ago?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2022, 08:45:54 PM
Don't SY already have irrefutable evidence that Maddie was abducted from 5a in a criminal act by a stranger?

Isn't that pretty much what Redwood said many years ago?

Evidence.. Proof.. Not the same thing.  I would say there is now proof
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 08:48:56 PM
Evidence.. Proof.. Not the same thing.  I would say there is now proof

Based on what?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2022, 08:52:12 PM
Based on what?

If you don't know.. You don't know and never will
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2022, 08:53:59 PM
If you don't know.. You don't know and never will

It's because Wolters said so isn't it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 06, 2022, 01:16:58 AM
SY are no longer actively investigating Madeleine's disappearance.

I think that they are there already, but I am not sure of this.

There has to be a certain event first  IMO.



An intuition I have with a supporter backing it elsehere
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 06, 2022, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: sadie on May 05, 2022, 01:23:41 PM
Quote
I'm not Eleanor, but YES, almost certainly,

1)   Black saloon noticed and commented on, cruising the streets beforehand and

2)  light brown (colour from memory) camper van spotted (for several days parked with man living in it) that disappeared evening Joana did.  Found abandoned 7 miles away (approx) in PdL

3)  The picture of Madeleine on a man?womans back in Zinat, Rif mountains of Africa, also show a little girl walking who is almost certainly Joana.


European businessmen used to keep hareems of chiildren in Africe.   Webpage showing this has now been whooshed but it has been on here.  Little doubt whooshed on here too.



4)  Furthermore when I pointed out that the little girl walking who looked like Joana had Joanas very unusual legs (no inner calf to speak of) a great deal of trouble was taken to produce an image showing good calves.

That is proof that someone is hiding things.

Joana was abducted.

5)   She also had strange ankles and these were shown on the original Zinat photo.
6)   And distinctive forehead



Before I go any further, for those that don't know, I used to teach figure drawing at secondary level.   I am also an HNC qualified Engineering Designer used to drawing massive designs.   I have an unusually keen eye.


Furthermore having spent hours/weeks studying maps and reports, I think I know where Joana was abducted.

Get your Google Earth going and have a look .


There are two spots en route back from the shops where the following three criteria occur

1)   where the camper van was parked and
2)   the likely place of the abduction/kidnap. 
3)   Very very quiet spot where almost nobody goes
 

In both cases the abduction spot is virtually adjacent to the parking spot and very very quiet


My main suspect abduction  area is within yards of Joanas home, which incidentally is the last house with a front door to the road and  Just waste land beyond.   It is a no thru road and unmade for the last bit called   *Praceta dos Cooparentos*.   There is a 7 vehicle parking bay to the east of Joanas house which usually was almost empty.   This was less than 40 metres from Joanas front door 
 
I think the motorhome was probably parked in the most easterly bay, because that was immediately adjacent to a small shrubbed, wooded area where the occupant would have been able to do his ablutions unseen.

Additionally, immediately opposite this parking bay is a short cut up a wooded bank to the village and the shop that Joana visited on the other side of the village.. 
* Figuiera * is quite hilly and the bank is steep.  No houses overlook it.   The cut through was built to take the stanchions for carrying power cables.  To access the short cut from Joanas road one had to climb a set of step ladders resting against a fairly high wall !!!  But it was obviously used.   And at the time Joana vanished it was lightly shrubbed  and wild, not landscaped as it appears now.


Please note there are a large number of Figuiera’s in PT.  This is about 3 miles NNW of Alvor.

Suggest you go into street scene as well as GE if you are interested.  Take hard images cos this will probably vanish.  Whooshed !


The parking lot for the motorhome was immediately opposite the stepladders with a perfect view of  the cut through.   The road on the village side is called *Rua Martin Alfonso Pacheco Gracias Arquitecto * .  With GE street scene you will see the step ladders and the beginning of the short cut and also the parking lot.   IIRC it doesn't properly show Joanas home, probably  cos the road there is unmade 

The short cut ran between *Praceta dos Cooparentos* and * Rua Martin Alfonso Pacheco Gracias Arquitecto *   


Darkness was falling.  No one around.  Carnival going on at the edge of the village.  What a perfect set up for an abduction!


I take no notice of the obviously wrongful case against Leonor and Joao.   
What were Amaral and Cristovao thinking of, with so much make-believe and IMO lies?


Joana was taken.   



There is a second abduction /parking place but I prefer this one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 09, 2022, 01:40:51 AM
I'm not Eleanor, but YES, almost certainly,

1)   Black saloon noticed and commented on, cruising the streets beforehand and

2)  light brown (colour from memory) camper van spotted (for several days parked with man living in it) that disappeared evening Joana did. 
  • 3)  The picture of Madeleine on a man?womans back in Zinat, Rif mountains of Africa, also show a little girl walking who is almost certainly Joana.


    European businessmen used to keep hareems of chiildren in Africe.   Webpage showing this has now been whooshed but it has been on here.  Little doubt whooshed on here too.



    4)  Furthermore when I pointed out that the little girl walking who looked like Joana had Joanas very unusual legs (no inner calf to speak of) a great deal of trouble was taken to produce an image showing good calves.

    That is proof that someone is hiding things.

    Joana was abducted.

    5)   She also had strange ankles and these were shown on the original Zinat photo.
    6)   And distinctive forehead



    Before I go any further, for those that don't know, I used to teach figure drawing at secondary level.   I am also an HNC qualified Engineering Designer used to drawing massive designs.   I have an unusually keen eye.
Does this remind you of anyone?


Still nowhere near enough proof tho'.  This is just a possible pointer.  Could have been another man entirely, but four similarities is rather a lot.

I wonder if Amaral noticed them?[/list]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 09, 2022, 08:35:01 AM
Does this remind you of anyone?

  • In the close vicinity to PdL a Little girl abducted

  • Black saloon noticed and commented on, cruising the streets beforehand
  • camper van[/color] spotted (for several days parked with man living in it)
  • (Campervan) Found abandoned 7 miles away (approx) in PdL


Still nowhere near enough proof tho'.  This is just a possible pointer.  Could have been another man entirely, but four similarities is rather a lot.

I wonder if Amaral noticed them?[/list]

I think the coincidence of two little girls missing without trace in such close proximity to each other was ignored because as far as Portuguese justice was concerned Joana's case had been solved with the murder convictions of her mother and uncle.

The same team of investigators worked both cases and tried to introduce the expediency of one as the resolution for the other never for one moment allowing lack of evidence for their solution to interfere with the diktat.

Hence the unprecedented fifteen years of monstering the McCanns which Amaral has originated and perpetuated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2022, 08:51:45 AM

We would never have heard of Joanna Cipriano if it were not for Madeleine McCann.  Although how on earth Amaral got the job is completely beyond me.  He was made an Arguido himself the very next day after Madeleine disappeared.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 09, 2022, 08:59:12 AM
We would never have heard of Joanna Cipriano if it were not for Madeleine McCann.  Although how on earth Amaral got the job is completely beyond me.  He was made an Arguido himself the very next day after Madeleine disappeared.

Any idea why Wolters has shown absolutely no interest in the possibility that Brueckner might have abducted & murdered Joana, given the proximity?


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on May 09, 2022, 09:05:44 AM
We would never have heard of Joanna Cipriano if it were not for Madeleine McCann.  Although how on earth Amaral got the job is completely beyond me.  He was made an Arguido himself the very next day after Madeleine disappeared.

Agreed Amaral should have been removed from the case as soon as he was made arguido but we must never forget the work Rebelo did. After Amaral was removed Rebelo decided to question again the McCann’s friends and also push for a reconstruction. His actions suggest that he wasn’t convinced of the parent’s innocence either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2022, 09:16:41 AM
Agreed Amaral should have been removed from the case as soon as he was made arguido but we must never forget the work Rebelo did. After Amaral was removed Rebelo decided to question again the McCann’s friends and also push for a reconstruction. His actions suggest that he wasn’t convinced of the parent’s innocence either.

Wasn't he the one who didn't hang around in England for long enough to hear David Payne's Rog Interview?  And the one who supervised grown men climbing in and out of that bedroom window?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 09, 2022, 10:10:51 AM
Any idea why Wolters has shown absolutely no interest in the possibility that Brueckner might have abducted & murdered Joana, given the proximity?

We never get a straight answer to this one do we?

Could it possibly be that Wolters has never even heard of Joana Cipriano, & so, has never investigated the possibility Brueckner abducted & murdered her?

If that is the case then someone really should write to him with their concerns.

Or, maybe, Wolters is aware of the disappearance of Joana, had a look at the case & came to the conclusion she was murdered by her mother & uncle.

That's also possible isn't it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on May 09, 2022, 10:22:34 AM
    I think the coincidence of two little girls missing without trace in such close proximity to each other was ignored because as far as Portuguese justice was concerned Joana's case had been solved with the murder convictions of her mother and uncle.

    The same team of investigators worked both cases and tried to introduce the expediency of one as the resolution for the other never for one moment allowing lack of evidence for their solution to interfere with the diktat.

    Hence the unprecedented fifteen years of monstering the McCanns which Amaral has originated and perpetuated.
I don't think Amaral's opinions were as influential as you like to suggest. I don't know what 'monstering' is. If it's suggesting people are monsters I don't think he did that. [/list]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 09, 2022, 10:28:15 AM
I don't think Amaral's opinions were as influential as you like to suggest. I don't know what 'monstering' is. If it's suggesting people are monsters I don't think he did that. [/list]
monster
/ˈmɒnstə/
Learn to pronounce
verbINFORMAL•BRITISH
gerund or present participle: monstering
criticize or reprimand severely.
"my mum used to monster me for coming home so late"
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on May 09, 2022, 10:46:33 AM
I don't think Amaral's opinions were as influential as you like to suggest. I don't know what 'monstering' is. If it's suggesting people are monsters I don't think he did that. [/list]

The monstering of Madeleine's parents from the morning of 4th May is concisely laid out in Amaral's book and documentary.
It is all backed up over the years by translations of his numerous interviews and his media career.

I appreciate why you prefer to gloss over the infamy of his support for the prime suspect in what is a child murder inquiry just as I appreciate why you continue the argument for the emperor's new clothes being a perfect fit when he's very obviously naked.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on May 09, 2022, 11:01:03 AM
    The monstering of Madeleine's parents from the morning of 4th May is concisely laid out in Amaral's book and documentary.
    It is all backed up over the years by translations of his numerous interviews and his media career.

    I appreciate why you prefer to gloss over the infamy of his support for the prime suspect in what is a child murder inquiry just as I appreciate why you continue the argument for the emperor's new clothes being a perfect fit when he's very obviously naked.
Monstering seems to mean criticising. I don't think Amaral criticised the McCanns as people, except by pointing out that they neglected their children, and he wasn't alone in that. His account of the investigation and it's conclusions up to September 2007 mirrors what is in the PJ files. The investigation and it's direction was conducted with the agreement of those above him. [/list]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2022, 11:10:38 AM
Monstering seems to mean criticising. I don't think Amaral criticised the McCanns as people, except by pointing out that they neglected their children, and he wasn't alone in that. His account of the investigation and it's conclusions up to September 2007 mirrors what is in the PJ files. The investigation and it's direction was conducted with the agreement of those above him. [/list]

While Amaral drove around drunk with his small daughter in the car.  And refused to return the child to her mother.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 09, 2022, 11:11:46 AM
Monstering seems to mean criticising. I don't think Amaral criticised the McCanns as people, except by pointing out that they neglected their children, and he wasn't alone in that. His account of the investigation and it's conclusions up to September 2007 mirrors what is in the PJ files. The investigation and it's direction was conducted with the agreement of those above him. [/list]
No of course he wasn't criticising them when he accused them of hiding their child's body, of lying, of setting up a fraudulent fund, of behaving strangely, of sedating their kids,  'of fraternising with paedos, none of that was meant to be in any way critical, no sirreee..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2022, 11:37:23 AM
No of course he wasn't criticising them when he accused them of hiding their child's body, of lying, of setting up a fraudulent fund, of behaving strangely, of sedating their kids,  'of fraternising with paedos, none of that was meant to be in any way critical, no sirreee..

I think you might be flogging a dead horse.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 09, 2022, 11:41:41 AM
I think you might be flogging a dead horse.[/list]
what else do you think I've been doing for the last 15 years?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2022, 11:46:34 AM
what else do you think I've been doing for the last 15 years?

Haven't we all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on May 09, 2022, 12:07:41 PM
    No of course he wasn't criticising them when he accused them of hiding their child's body, of lying, of setting up a fraudulent fund, of behaving strangely, of sedating their kids,  'of fraternising with paedos, none of that was meant to be in any way critical, no sirreee..
The investigation suspected they hid their childs body, and there was evidence of lying in their statements. He pointed out that if they knew what happened to their daughter then the fund would be fraudulent (true). A lot of people thought they behaved strangely and there was a possibility of sedation. I'd like a cite for accusing them of frateranising with peados please.



[/list]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2022, 12:10:17 PM
The investigation suspected they hid their childs body, and there was evidence of lying in their statements. He pointed out that if they knew what happened to their daughter then the fund would be fraudulent (true). A lot of people thought they behaved strangely and there was a possibility of sedation. I'd like a cite for accusing them of frateranising with peados please.



[/list]

So where did all of that get them when in fact none of it was true.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on May 09, 2022, 12:17:25 PM
    So where did all of that get them when in fact none of it was true.
How do you know?

[/list]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2022, 12:20:51 PM
How do you know?

[/list]

The McCanns have been done then, have they?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 09, 2022, 12:23:47 PM
How do you know?

[/list]

Because the case has been solved, Brueckner abducted & murdered Maddie, that is a fact now, you see.

Wolters just can't prove it, that's all, but we'll just pretend like that isn't so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 09, 2022, 01:03:50 PM

Because the case has been solved, Brueckner abducted & murdered Maddie, that is a fact now, you see.

Wolters just can't prove it, that's all, but we'll just pretend like that isn't so.

No, it is NOT a fact.   The case against Brueckner has not, as far as we are aware, been solved

SY are STILL looking for a missing Madeleine and if that has not been achieved when the Government money runs out,, Kate and Gerry are going to try again using fund money.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 09, 2022, 01:30:02 PM
No, it is NOT a fact.   The case against Brueckner has not, as far as we are aware, been solved

SY are STILL looking for a missing Madeleine and if that has not been achieved when the Government money runs out,, Kate and Gerry are going to try again using fund money.[/list]

Why is the word [/list] at the bottom of my posts and Gunits and some of Eleanors.


Despite a couple of attempts at removing it, it persistently remains.


Is this someones method of marking certain posts for future reference, or what?

Please correct the fault Admin    TY.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2022, 01:36:13 PM

Why is the word [/list] at the bottom of my posts and Gunits and some of Eleanors.


Despite a couple of attempts at removing it, it persistently remains.


Is this someones method of marking certain posts for future reference, or what?

Please correct the fault Admin    TY.

I've been having trouble again this morning, Sadie.  It took me an hour to sort it on my very expensive Mac, while I am having no trouble at all anywhere else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 09, 2022, 01:38:32 PM
The investigation suspected they hid their childs body, and there was evidence of lying in their statements. He pointed out that if they knew what happened to their daughter then the fund would be fraudulent (true). A lot of people thought they behaved strangely and there was a possibility of sedation. I'd like a cite for accusing them of frateranising with peados please.



[/list]
Amaral seemed very keen to bring up the David Payne "obscene" gesture recently I seem to recall - was it in his latest best selling opus?  I don't have a cite but I'm sure if you refer to your notes and spreadsheets you'll find it.  As for the rest, are you still disputing that Amaral has been critical of the McCanns, over a sustained perior of approximately 15 years?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 09, 2022, 04:02:31 PM

I've been having trouble again this morning, Sadie.  It took me an hour to sort it on my very expensive Mac, while I am having no trouble at all anywhere else.

Oh dear, I am sorry.

I fear that your posts are too near the truth for some.

Almost everyone on our side is following the same line except for us and we both have reservations.   

Both of us are looking for absolute JUSTICE and questioning things whilst backing the Mccanns.   I have been and still  am seriously looking for the man who abducted, was it 7 or 8 children?  But I think I know who he is.   He has kind of revealed himself in * a hidden in plain sight *  sort of way.


For the first few years it was such hard work trying to solve what happened to Madeleine, but now facts keep presenting themselves with little effort, showing me that I am on the right track.   It is almost as tho either I have some influential being silently helping me, or I am becoming a wee bit psychic / clairvoyant these days


It worries me that you are becoming isolated as your electronic devices, both phone and computer, keep failing you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2022, 04:11:30 PM
Oh dear, I am sorry.

I fear that your posts are too near the truth for some.

Almost everyone on our side is following the same line except for us and we both have reservations.   

Both of us are looking for absolute JUSTICE and questioning things whilst backing the Mccanns.   I have been and still  am seriously looking for the man who abducted, was it 7 or 8 children?  But I think I know who he is.   He has kind of revealed himself in * a hidden in plain sight *  sort of way.


For the first few years it was such hard work trying to solve what happened to Madeleine, but now facts keep presenting themselves with little effort, showing me that I am on the right track.   It is almost as tho either I have some influential being silently helping me, or I am becoming a wee bit psychic / clairvoyant these days


It worries me that you are becoming isolated as your electronic devices, both phone and computer, keep failing you.

I get to watch a lot of old TV Series, Sadie.  Some of them are really good.  So don't worry about me.

I'm doing The Sweeny at the moment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 09, 2022, 04:17:31 PM
I get to watch a lot of old TV Series, Sadie.  Some of them are really good.  So don't worry about me.

I'm doing The Sweeny at the moment.

Have you done

FOOLS AND HORSES?

East enders, market traders, always on the fiddle, but they are so lovable and funny.

The Queen even watches it and it is soooo common !    She knighted the main character, but they are all fabulous actors.    The script writer has an amazing imagination.


You would laugh yourself silly.   You would love it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 09, 2022, 04:21:37 PM
Have you done

FOOLS AND HORSES?

East enders, market traders, always on the fiddle, but they are so lovable and funny.

The Queen even watches it and it is soooo common !    She knighted the main character, but they are all fabulous actors.    The script writer has an amazing imagination.


You would laugh yourself silly.   You would love it

Noted.  I've got a little list.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 09, 2022, 04:28:59 PM
Noted.  I've got a little list.
Some episodes show their exploits when they go to France .... and accidentally getting involved with a drug cartel.

You hav gotta watch it Elli.  Funniest show ever on TV IMO. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on May 11, 2022, 11:46:54 AM
Sorry, had to remove several posts as there was a glitch in the system.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on May 11, 2022, 12:07:09 PM
Any idea why Wolters has shown absolutely no interest in the possibility that Brueckner might have abducted & murdered Joana, given the proximity?

1. The statute of limitations ran out a few years ago on Joana's case (on the PT side).

2. There was no material evidence that I'm aware of re a) what may have happened to her or b) whether he was indeed just a 10 mins drive on the village fiesta evening from where she disappeared.

3. A certain (IMO, bizarre) lawyer appears to have scuppered the chances of ever getting to the truth of what may - or may not - have happened to that little girl.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on May 11, 2022, 12:12:35 PM
1. The statute of limitations ran out a few years ago on Joana's case (on the PT side).

2. There was no material evidence that I'm aware of re a) what may have happened to her or b) whether he was indeed just a 10 mins drive on the village fiesta evening from where she disappeared.

3. A certain (IMO, bizarre) lawyer appears to have scuppered the chances of ever getting to the truth of what may - or may not - have happened to that little girl.

So sad.

Could this case go to the ECHR do you think?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on May 11, 2022, 01:08:57 PM
So sad.

Could this case go to the ECHR do you think?

Definitely not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on May 11, 2022, 03:17:42 PM
Definitely not.

Its such a shame an appeal wasnt made as regards to torture and the right to a fair trial....it has ro be made within six months of the verdict. She had very poor legal advice...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Carana on May 19, 2022, 07:32:11 PM
Its such a shame an appeal wasnt made as regards to torture and the right to a fair trial....it has ro be made within six months of the verdict. She had very poor legal advice...

Even more so when, exceptionally, it actually got to the Supreme Court...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on May 19, 2022, 10:41:08 PM
Even more so when, exceptionally, it actually got to the Supreme Court...

Did it?  I didn't know that.  Not that I could have done anything.  So someone squashed it, did they?

This is all such a horror story.  But we can only go onwards and upwards now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2022, 09:25:28 AM
“The investigators had been building up a picture of Tobin’s life. Meanwhile, a cold case review had been set up by Lothian and Borders Police called Operation Mahogany in spring 2006.

Peter went on: “When they realised the link with Tobin, they gave Lothian and Borders the breakthrough they needed to search Robertson Avenue and that’s where I was involved.

“We spent a week ripping the garden and house apart. We didn’t realise at the time the significance of it all. We were just doing our jobs but we knew police had to keep their interest in Tobin secret for fear of prejudicing the Glasgow case.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/serial-killer-peter-tobin-hid-vicky-hamilton-s-body-under-rockery-in-back-garden-of-west-lothian-home/ar-AAY7BT5?bk=1&ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=66311ed5493440ebb6c86c319ccdb6f6


So why exactly did Amaral use Saunokonoko's podcast as a vehicle to release speculation about the German paedophile in a German jail when investigators were still operating in secrecy as illustrated as the norm in the Glasgow serial killer's case?

Amaral blew the German case wide open.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 06, 2022, 09:48:49 AM
b....r all to do with Amaral, if and its a big if CB was in anyway involved , after his chat with the BKA in 2013 he would have destroyed all evidence tying him to the girls alleged abduction and murder.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 06, 2022, 11:50:31 AM
“The investigators had been building up a picture of Tobin’s life. Meanwhile, a cold case review had been set up by Lothian and Borders Police called Operation Mahogany in spring 2006.

Peter went on: “When they realised the link with Tobin, they gave Lothian and Borders the breakthrough they needed to search Robertson Avenue and that’s where I was involved.

“We spent a week ripping the garden and house apart. We didn’t realise at the time the significance of it all. We were just doing our jobs but we knew police had to keep their interest in Tobin secret for fear of prejudicing the Glasgow case.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/serial-killer-peter-tobin-hid-vicky-hamilton-s-body-under-rockery-in-back-garden-of-west-lothian-home/ar-AAY7BT5?bk=1&ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=66311ed5493440ebb6c86c319ccdb6f6


So why exactly did Amaral use Saunokonoko's podcast as a vehicle to release speculation about the German paedophile in a German jail when investigators were still operating in secrecy as illustrated as the norm in the Glasgow serial killer's case?

Amaral blew the German case wide open.

I don't think it could be proved that Tobin buried this body under a rockery. All they had was signs of disturbance and alerts by police cadaver dogs, after all. As we have been told repeatedly, they mean nothing. The knife found in the attic provided forensic evidence, luckily.

I don't think Amaral 'blew the German case wide open'. Nothing much was reported until the Germans decided to appeal a year later. I've seen nothing suggesting the two actions were connected.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 06, 2022, 01:03:54 PM
I don't think it could be proved that Tobin buried this body under a rockery. All they had was signs of disturbance and alerts by police cadaver dogs, after all. As we have been told repeatedly, they mean nothing. The knife found in the attic provided forensic evidence, luckily.

I don't think Amaral 'blew the German case wide open'. Nothing much was reported until the Germans decided to appeal a year later. I've seen nothing suggesting the two actions were connected.

SY always said the official line, "we will not give a running commentary" Wolters on the other hand likes to be seen on the goggle box.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 06, 2022, 01:21:30 PM
SY always said the official line, "we will not give a running commentary" Wolters on the other hand likes to be seen on the goggle box.

That's because SY have nothing of interest to day wheras Wolters has a lot of interesting information heveants to share... And if he's solved the case will you still complain
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 06, 2022, 01:35:09 PM
That's because SY have nothing of interest to day wheras Wolters has a lot of interesting information heveants to share... And if he's solved the case will you still complain

Wolters has to prove his suspect abducted and killed Madeleine, he can't so he says it best when he says nothing at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2022, 02:02:56 PM
Wolters has to prove his suspect abducted and killed Madeleine, he can't so he says it best when he says nothing at all.
Give the man a break - he's given you hours of entertainment over the last couple of years, the least you could be is grateful for having something fresh to slag off.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 06, 2022, 02:09:41 PM
Give the man a break - he's given you hours of entertainment over the last couple of years, the least you could be is grateful for having something fresh to slag off.
Fifteen years of Amaral to catch up with yet though.
There's entertainment and then there's Wolters.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 06, 2022, 03:06:01 PM
Wolters has to prove his suspect abducted and killed Madeleine, he can't so he says it best when he says nothing at all.
He's the prosecutor not you... You need to understand that.. None of your business how he does his job
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 06, 2022, 03:45:19 PM
I don't think it could be proved that Tobin buried this body under a rockery. All they had was signs of disturbance and alerts by police cadaver dogs, after all. As we have been told repeatedly, they mean nothing. The knife found in the attic provided forensic evidence, luckily.

I don't think Amaral 'blew the German case wide open'. Nothing much was reported until the Germans decided to appeal a year later. I've seen nothing suggesting the two actions were connected.

If  a body had been buried for months under the rockery there would be cadaver residue in the soil which could be tested scientifically. Seems I know more than the police and dog handlers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 06, 2022, 05:32:24 PM
If  a body had been buried for months under the rockery there would be cadaver residue in the soil which could be tested scientifically. Seems I know more than the police and dog handlers.

What residues are left, apart from residual scent?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2022, 05:38:49 PM
b....r all to do with Amaral, if and its a big if CB was in anyway involved , after his chat with the BKA in 2013 he would have destroyed all evidence tying him to the girls alleged abduction and murder.

That statement  "b....r all to do with Amaral" is merely an illustration of your very poor grasp of the fundamentals of what has been going on in Madeleine's investigation.
Nor is it an opinion shared with Saunonkonoko.

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Mark Saunokonoko
Here's how Goncalo Amaral accurately foreshadowed today's developments more than one year ago, describing a German 'scapegoat', a vehicle taken and tested in Germany and a lead that was investigated + 'discarded'

 https://twitter.com/saunokonoko/status/1268369057213865985?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1268369057213865985%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.pt%2Fpais%2Fgoncalo-amaral-tinha-antecipado-o-novo-suspeito-sera-o-bode-expiatorio-12276571.html

______________________________________________________________________________


Gonçalo Amaral had anticipated the new suspect. "You will be the scapegoat"
The former PJ inspector who investigated Maddie's disappearance said last year that British police were pointing to a German suspect who had already been dropped off in Portugal.

"A scapegoat." It was in this way that Gonçalo Amaral, a former inspector of the Judicial Police who investigated the Maddie case, defined in 2019 the new prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

In an interview with an Australian journalist in April last year, when there was talk of the existence of a suspect of German nationality, Gonçalo Amaral told Nine.com.au the's Maddie podcast that the British police were "preparing the end of the investigation, with a German pedophile who is in prison now."

"He will probably be the scapegoat," Amaral said in the conversation with journalist Mark Saunokonoko, in which he was anticipating what is now being verified with the announcement by the German, English and Portuguese authorities about this German suspect.

Amaral maintained the said suspect had already been investigated by the Judiciary Police at the time "having been discarded as a suspect"

"The caravan he lived in was taken to Germany for testing, but nothing was found," the man who led the investigation into the case said in April 2019, having named the McCann couple as the prime suspect.

In the program of this Australian medium, Amaral said that the German suspect was a convicted sex offender and was serving sentences in Germany unrelated to the disappearance of Maddie, This information was repeated last November to the Spanish channel Cuatro, having Gonçalo Amaral reaffirmed that the English press was wrong to point out a German sentenced to life imprisonment as the new line of inquiry. "What I know is that this is not it," he said, adding that he had information that indicated that another German was the suspect in the English and German police.

At the time, Gonçalo Amaral also said that the new suspect - presumably referring to Chrstian B, now pointed out by the German and English authorities - had many physical similarities to Gerry McCann.

The former inspector also criticised Operation Grange, the London Metropolitan Police's investigation, with a budget of €14 million to find Maddie's back.

The former inspector also criticised Operation Grange, the London Metropolitan Police's investigation, with a budget of €14 million to find Maddie's back.

Gonçalo Amaral has not yet commented on these new suspicions of the police of the three countries involved in the investigation. DN couldn't reach him.

https://www.dn.pt/pais/goncalo-amaral-tinha-antecipado-o-novo-suspeito-sera-o-bode-expiatorio-12276571.html


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2022, 05:47:44 PM
SY always said the official line, "we will not give a running commentary" Wolters on the other hand likes to be seen on the goggle box.

Hans Christian Wolters, a spokesman for the Braunschweig Public Prosecutor's Office,
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 06, 2022, 05:50:28 PM
What residues are left, apart from residual scent?

Physical residues in the soil. This will only happen if a body has been buried and left in place
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2022, 06:16:24 PM
What residues are left, apart from residual scent?

Vicky's body was found in Margate, Kent.  Tobin was a serial killer whose modus operandi was to make sure remains were never found.
Apart from that point another is that the police took great efforts to keep their investigation into Vicky's murder confidential to avoid prejudicing the one case where Tobin was careless and left his victims body secreted but where it was found.

Amaral rode a coach and hoses through any notion of confidentiality when he opened his mouth and loudly and clearly announced enough detail of the case for Brueckner's identity to be revealed.

If that could be described as anything other than perverting the course of justice when the police are investigating a crime and a possible criminal, I would like someone to ask the question of Amaral and I would like Amaral to give an answer, preferably under oath.

Although given his criminal record, an oath would be no guarantee of an honest answer.


Snip
Police in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz had an open file of a 72-year-old American was brutally raped and robbed in her home. The rapist had remained free.

The connection was made. But his claims about his connection to the disappearance of Maddie put a three country police operation into full swing.

Officers from Britain, Germany and Portugal linked their investigations and interviewed informants and those who might have come across the German without revealing the nature of the investigation.

This was likely to have been the method to ensure word did not spread that the 43-year-old Brueckner was suspected in the kidnapping and probable murder of Maddie.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8389643/Met-Police-hundreds-calls-emails-new-appeal-Madeleine-McCann-disappearance.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 06, 2022, 07:03:25 PM
He's the prosecutor not you... You need to understand that.. None of your business how he does his job

He goes public I have a right to offer an opinion the same as you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 06, 2022, 07:10:51 PM
He goes public I have a right to offer an opinion the same as you , wind it in .

You don't seem to understand that gives me the right to have and post my opinion..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 06, 2022, 07:17:43 PM
It somehow has to be Amaral's fault that Wolters can't solve the case, rather than it being simply because Brueckner just didn't abduct or murder Maddie, & that's why.

.....& there has to be some technical legal issue that prevents Wolters from using the imaginary photo of Maddie in evidence, rather than there just not being any photo in the first place.

That, ladies & gentlemen, is the supporters way of coping with there being no charges ever for Brueckner, & having been sucked in by claims of concrete evidence, & with the fantasy imaginings of Maddie photos.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 06, 2022, 07:28:07 PM
It somehow has to be Amaral's fault that Wolters can't solve the case, rather than it being simply because Brueckner just didn't abduct or murder Maddie, & that's why.

.....& there has to be some technical legal issue that prevents Wolters from using the imaginary photo of Maddie in evidence, rather than there just not being any photo in the first place.

That, ladies & gentlemen, is the supporters way of coping with there being no charges ever for Brueckner, & having been sucked in by claims of concrete evidence, & with the fantasy imaginings of Maddie photos.

I wonder if he's involved in causing global warming?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 06, 2022, 07:40:51 PM
I wonder if he's involved in causing global warming?

He spent his ill gotten book proceeds on a gas guzzling car, so in some part, yes he is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2022, 08:31:25 PM
It somehow has to be Amaral's fault that Wolters can't solve the case, rather than it being simply because Brueckner just didn't abduct or murder Maddie, & that's why.

.....& there has to be some technical legal issue that prevents Wolters from using the imaginary photo of Maddie in evidence, rather than there just not being any photo in the first place.

That, ladies & gentlemen, is the supporters way of coping with there being no charges ever for Brueckner, & having been sucked in by claims of concrete evidence, & with the fantasy imaginings of Maddie photos.

You are misrepresenting the reality of the situation in defence of a suspect without any knowledge of the evidence investigators hold on him.

You are also deflecting from "Goncalo Amaral" the thread title and his shenanigans regarding releasing confidential information about an active investigation.

The reality is >
Gonçalo Amaral predicted, a year ago, a German suspect in the Maddie case
By Jornal de Notícias • June 5, 2020 - 13:17
German citizen Christian B., 43, is being held in Germany for sexual abuse of minors, among other crimes and, according to British and German police, is suspected of involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, in Algarve, in 2007

Gonçalo Amaral predicted, more than a year ago, that the British police would point the investigation to “a pedophile”, “detained in Germany”, as a suspect in the 2007 abduction of Madeleine McCann in the Algarve.

British police “prepare to close the investigation with a German pedophile who is currently in prison”, said Gonçalo Amaral, in April 2019, in an interview given to the “podcast” of the Australian television channel “Nine”.

https://www.sulinformacao.pt/en/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-previu-ha-um-ano-suspeito-alemao-no-caso-maddie/

and trying to distort the reality does nothing for the probity of the forum nor for the probity of your posts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 06, 2022, 08:42:35 PM
You are misrepresenting the reality of the situation in defence of a suspect without any knowledge of the evidence investigators hold on him.

You are also deflecting from "Goncalo Amaral" the thread title and his shenanigans regarding releasing confidential information about an active investigation.

The reality is >
Gonçalo Amaral predicted, a year ago, a German suspect in the Maddie case
By Jornal de Notícias • June 5, 2020 - 13:17
German citizen Christian B., 43, is being held in Germany for sexual abuse of minors, among other crimes and, according to British and German police, is suspected of involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, in Algarve, in 2007

Gonçalo Amaral predicted, more than a year ago, that the British police would point the investigation to “a pedophile”, “detained in Germany”, as a suspect in the 2007 abduction of Madeleine McCann in the Algarve.

British police “prepare to close the investigation with a German pedophile who is currently in prison”, said Gonçalo Amaral, in April 2019, in an interview given to the “podcast” of the Australian television channel “Nine”.

https://www.sulinformacao.pt/en/2020/06/goncalo-amaral-previu-ha-um-ano-suspeito-alemao-no-caso-maddie/

and trying to distort the reality does nothing for the probity of the forum nor for the probity of your posts.

Wolters doesn't have anything that will stand up in court, that is the reality of the situation, & you really should just try to get over it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 06, 2022, 09:05:24 PM
Wolters doesn't have anything that will stand up in court, that is the reality of the situation, & you really should just try to get over it.

You do not know that and I think your opinion may be way off beam.

Now please make an attempt to post On Topic, thank you.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 06, 2022, 09:12:04 PM
b....r all to do with Amaral, if and its a big if CB was in anyway involved , after his chat with the BKA in 2013 he would have destroyed all evidence tying him to the girls alleged abduction and murder.

No, it wasn't until Amaral opened his big fat mouth, that Brueckner destroyed all the evidence, somehow, even though he was already sat in the slammer by then.

But, what if that's when Brueckner's accomplice destroyed the evidence?

Could be, maybe they'd been hanging onto it all for posterity, up until that point.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 06, 2022, 10:05:06 PM
I wonder if he's involved in causing global warming?
of course he is, and so are you and I.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Admin on June 07, 2022, 09:29:42 AM
Posters are reminded to keep comments civil and relevant.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 03:42:01 PM

Well, At least this has put a stop to the Sceptic misinformation.  Even if only temporarily.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2022, 03:54:50 PM
Well, At least this has put a stop to the Sceptic misinformation.  Even if only temporarily.

Your comment is neither civil nor relevant imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 08, 2022, 06:12:33 PM
Your comment is neither civil nor relevant imo.

Rubbish!

Oops sorry Admin, but Elli is right.    Just needed to say that!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 08, 2022, 06:23:58 PM

Look, there's obviously nothing to talk about this minute, so lets all just sit tight & wait patiently until Wolters reveals the concrete evidence. It shouldn't be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2022, 07:11:35 PM
Look, there's obviously nothing to talk about this minute, so lets all just sit tight & wait patiently until Wolters reveals the concrete evidence. It shouldn't be much longer now.

I think you are quite right.  As we know there is still a lot of process to be gone through regarding the active cases which it is hoped will lead to charges being brought against Brueckner.

The police having concluded their work on these, they have passed the relevant files to Brueckner's defence team who will study them and give their opinion on the process.

This is expected to take a considerable amount of time.  I think the process is carried out under similar protocols to the now infamous "Secrecy of Justice" rule which was so used and abused by Amaral against Madeleine's parents throughout her case when he was actively involved as co-ordinator.

A practice which he has kept up consistently through the years to the present day as he continues his slurs against them in defence of his "scapegoat".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2022, 07:55:42 PM
Well, At least this has put a stop to the Sceptic misinformation.  Even if only temporarily.
It is unbelievable the way in which misinformation has been manipulated in this case and almost without exception all emanating from the strings pulled Goncalo Amaral, the puppet master in chief.

I was struck by the date given on the following video from RTP Archived Files being 2007-09-07. If that date is correct and I have no suspicion otherwise, Madeleine's case was still a live one in which her parents had been made arguidos and the case was very much subject to so called Portuguese secrecy laws.

Amaral doesn't make an appearance on this occasion; but the rest of his propaganda team were all present and correct as they have been for over fifteen years.

Maddie case
Journalist José Rodrigues dos Santos moderates the debate among guests Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, former inspector of the Judicial Police, Carlos Poiares, Professor of Forensic Psychology at the Lusophone University, and Francisco Corte Real, Professor of the Faculty of Medicine of the University of Coimbra, on Lago case of the disappearance, on May 3, of Madeleine McCann, An English girl with 4 years of age, the tourist village The Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, lagos.

Program Name:
MADDIE CASE
Series name:
SPECIAL INFORMATION
Personalities: Paulo Pereira Cristovão, José Rodrigues dos Santos, Carlos Poiares, Francisco Corte Real
Themes: Justice, Society
Channel: RTP 1
Content type: News
Colour: Colour
Sound: Mono
Aspect ratio: 4:3 PAL

Analytical Summary
10:39 pm: José Rodrigues dos Santos starts the program, presents the guests and makes a brief retrospective of the events.

22h03m22: Sandra Felgueiras, Journalist, live from the premises of the Judicial Police (PJ) portimão, with the latest updates on the case (Madeleine's parents are constituted defendants); archive footage of Kate McCann leaving pj portimão and getting in car;
archive footage of Gerry McCann arriving and entering the PJ building of Portimão.
10:20 p.m.: José Rodrigues dos Santos announces last-minute information from England regarding the interview of Brian Healy, Kate's father and Madeleine's grandfather, to the newspaper 'The Sun', in which he stated that his daughter gave Calpol to the girl to help her sleep. Launch the debate to your guests.
22h07m34: Paulo Pereira Cristóvão comments, following the last minute news given by José Rodrigues dos Santos, the possibility of having been administered a sedative to Maddie and, on the fact that Kate, despite having been constituted accused, remains at liberty.
10.10pm32: Francisco Corte Real comments on what the results of dna tests carried out in Birmingham may reveal; archive footage of Kate McCann leaving the PJ building of Portimão and getting in car and, gerry mccann arriving at the PJ building of Portimão and entering; Francisco Corte Real; Photographs of Maddie (highlight for the characteristic mark on her right eye, which has a type of coloboma, a complete spread of the iris, i.e. a radial band that extends from the pupil to the edge of the eye).
22h15m46: Paulo Pereira Cristóvão comments on the same theme and on the traces of blood found.
22h20m54: Francisco Corte Real comments on the possibility that the use of sedatives may cause blood loss (still related to the traces of blood found).
22h22m00: Paulo Pereira Cristóvão comments on the same theme.
10:24:33:33:33: Carlos Poiares comments on the attitude of and suspicions about Kate McCann throughout this case.
10:31 pm10: Paulo Pereira Cristóvão comments on the possibility that the nationality of the couple concerned may have negatively conditioned the investigation (it refers to Gerry McCann's personal friendship with Gordon Brown, English Prime Minister).
22h33m41: Francisco Corte Real comments on the same theme and, on sending the samples collected during the investigation, to an English laboratory; document plan of the Scientific Police Laboratory.
10:35 p.m.: Carlos Poiares comments on the existence of a technique of questioning suspects advisable, in this type of cases.

https://arquivos.rtp.pt/conteudos/caso-maddie/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 08:08:10 PM
This isn't what I actually meant.
My Comment was Neither Civil nor Relevant.  Which is what it has all come down to.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 08:18:24 PM

The Sleep Inducing Calpol was not introduced into The Market until September 2007.  And even then it wasn't dangerous.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 08, 2022, 08:19:07 PM
Look, there's obviously nothing to talk about this minute, so lets all just sit tight & wait patiently until Wolters reveals the concrete evidence. It shouldn't be much longer now.

Actually, scrap that, lets just bang on & on about Amaral instead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2022, 08:20:10 PM
Your comment is neither civil nor relevant imo.

With due respect I would be inclined to disagree with your assessment.

As you may note from my subsequent post ~ I had absolutely no problem finding relevant information to discuss on this discussion forum.

As Eleanor's comment is both therefore relevant and perhaps even more to the point TRUE I think your opinion of her post is way off the mark.

For example your opinion of using Madeleine's ailing papa as a propaganda tool during the period of secrecy of justice could be looked on as 'fair comment' by some.
Others may find it reprehensible.  All a matter of opinion.  Although I'm not sure of the legality of conducting a full blown discussion of the misinterpretation applied to it on a Portuguese TV programme or how prejudicial to the arguidos ~

All that was missing was the physical presence of Amaral but his not quite subliminal presence was in the shape of his unproven and unproveable theories under discussion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Admin on June 08, 2022, 08:20:26 PM
Look, there's obviously nothing to talk about this minute, so lets all just sit tight & wait patiently until Wolters reveals the concrete evidence. It shouldn't be much longer now.

Best idea you've had for yonks.

As for the forum being biased, that is nonsense.  The one thing we do correctly is to allow all shades of opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 08:21:57 PM
This isn't what I actually meant.
My Comment was Neither Civil nor Relevant.  Which is what it has all come down to.

My Comment has been Edited by Gunit.  Which was my point precisely.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2022, 08:25:12 PM
Actually, scrap that, lets just bang on & on about Amaral instead.

Brilliant thinking there!

As it is the Goncalo Amaral thread if everyone 'bangs on' in that vein I can bog off moderating for a bit and relax with a coffee instead.

Oh the heaven of having a thread consisting of 'on topic' posts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 08:30:26 PM
Best idea you've had for yonks.

As for the forum being biased, that is nonsense.  The one thing we do correctly is to allow all shades of opinion.

And then Gunit Edited My Opinion.  Probably because she wasn't quite silly enough to Delete my Comment altogether.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2022, 08:34:07 PM
And then Gunit Edited My Opinion.  Probably because she wasn't quite silly enough to Delete my Comment altogether.

Criticising the forum is against the rules of the forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 08:35:25 PM
Brilliant thinking there!

As it is the Goncalo Amaral thread if everyone 'bangs on' in that vein I can bog off moderating for a bit and relax with a coffee instead.

Oh the heaven of having a thread consisting of 'on topic' posts.

Oh God, don't do that because you will get The Sack.  As per what happened to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 08:43:45 PM
Criticising the forum is against the rules of the forum.

Oh, well done.  Don't ever criticise The Forum, despite the current agenda.

Do you honestly think that we don't know what you are up to?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 09:00:42 PM
Criticising the forum is against the rules of the forum.

Have you any idea of how ridiculous that statement is?

No, probably not.

So what do you think any Forum amounts to beyond your own personal opinion?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2022, 09:04:39 PM
Have you any idea of how ridiculous that statement is?

No, probably not.

So what do you think any Forum amounts to beyond your own personal opinion?

Do you have anything to say which is on topic?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 09:17:46 PM
Do you have anything to say which is on topic?

What is your opinion of Goncalo Amaral?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 08, 2022, 09:20:27 PM
What is your opinion of Goncalo Amaral?

He isn't any way responsible for what ever befell Madeleine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 09:28:14 PM
He isn't any way responsible for what ever befell Madeleine.

Are you absolutely certain of that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 08, 2022, 10:02:02 PM
Are you absolutely certain of that?

I agree with Barrier.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 10:14:38 PM
I agree with Barrier.

Amaral was however, responsible  for a gross failure to even look for that small child.

But that is Portugal for you.  Such an enormous pity.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 08, 2022, 10:32:24 PM
Amaral was however, responsible  for a gross failure to even look for that small child.

But that is Portugal for you.  Such an enormous pity.
He didn't even bother to met up with Kate and Gerry to hear it all through the people who found Madeleine missing ?8)@)-)

He chose to suspect them from day 1 with no evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 10:37:01 PM
Can anyone tell me for why Amaral produced photos of Brueckner with dreadlocks when this was plainly untrue.  Or Brueckner's Van with cartoons when this wasn't true either.

Why did Amaral do this?

Not one single answer to this so far?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 10:42:33 PM
He didn't even bother to met up with Kate and Gerry to hear it all through the people who found Madeleine missing ?8)@)-)

He chose to suspect them from day 1 with no evidence.

Portugal itself is responsible for this, Sadie.  And so far The State of Portugal has never apologised.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 08, 2022, 11:06:04 PM
Amaral was however, responsible  for a gross failure to even look for that small child.

But that is Portugal for you.  Such an enormous pity.

Where were they supposed to have looked?

Everywhere?

Yeah, that's not an realistic expectation or anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 08, 2022, 11:07:42 PM
Can anyone tell me for why Amaral produced photos of Brueckner with dreadlocks when this was plainly untrue.  Or Brueckner's Van with cartoons when this wasn't true either.

Why did Amaral do this?

Not one single answer to this so far?

Maybe he got fed bogus information? Same as Sandra F when someone told her there were traces of Maddie in the van.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 08, 2022, 11:41:01 PM
I agree with Barrier.

Perhaps ~ up to a certain point.

But it rapidly went pear shaped as soon as Amaral's business of being constituted as an arguido on the 4th was out of the way and he took to co-ordinating his thesis and getting it all sorted and in place.

Madeleine kind of took second prize when her story had to fit to Amaral's thesis and what he thought should have happened rather than the evidence.

The newspapers were already expounding it on the 5th and relentlessly since then starting with the "Badly Told Story" put on the newstands on that day.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 08, 2022, 11:55:34 PM
Why are accusations against The McCanns not deemed as Libel?  Why is it okay to accuse The McCanns?

None my kind would even be here if it were not for that.  Or is that what it is all about?

This isn't even a Miscarriage of Justice.  Just an excuse to blame The McCanns, which largely goes unhindered.

It is only the likes of me who get sanctioned.

There is something very wrong going on here.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2022, 01:00:40 AM
Perhaps ~ up to a certain point.

But it rapidly went pear shaped as soon as Amaral's business of being constituted as an arguido on the 4th was out of the way and he took to co-ordinating his thesis and getting it all sorted and in place.

Madeleine kind of took second prize when her story had to fit to Amaral's thesis and what he thought should have happened rather than the evidence.

The newspapers were already expounding it on the 5th and relentlessly since then starting with the "Badly Told Story" put on the newstands on that day.

And so very soon, without even a passing thought.  Since when I have been totally bemused by the desire to blame The McCanns.  And there is some desire in this, for some inexplicably reason that continues to defeat me.

And then along came Brueckner.  But I afforded him the same courtesy that I mistakenly expected for The McCanns.  Although this would not have affected my opinion of any Justice System had it been even remotely decent.  But The Portuguese System wasn't even remotely decent.

They allowed one of their serving officers to say whatever he pleased.  And then they supported him in The Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 02:47:40 AM
And so very soon, without even a passing thought.  Since when I have been totally bemused by the desire to blame The McCanns.  And there is some desire in this, for some inexplicably reason that continues to defeat me.

And then along came Brueckner.  But I afforded him the same courtesy that I mistakenly expected for The McCanns.  Although this would not have affected my opinion of any Justice System had it been even remotely decent.  But The Portuguese System wasn't even remotely decent.

They allowed one of their serving officers to say whatever he pleased.  And then they supported him in The Supreme Court.

This Forum is now going dreadfully down hill, mainly apparently because Admin won't have any right for Supporters to complain, while Sceptics may say as they please.

The Moderation is appalling, but rest assured that some of us catch it before we get Deleted.

No good will come from this for The Justice Forum.  And this is a great pity.

The lines ‘But facts are chiels that winna ding,/An downa be disputed’ appear in Burns’ poem A Dream from 1786. The English translation is ‘But facts are fellows that will not be overturned,/And cannot be disputed’.

One would think that to indeed be indisputable.  But not in the world inhabited by Amaral who has invented things such as 'poisonous' Calpol "Also, in addition to this, it was considered that the girl had a problem with falling asleep and with sleeping and whether the parents, like other parents in England were giving her Calpol to sleep. It is said that there is a Calpol generation in England, because the mother says that it is a medicine, paracetamol and there are experts who say that it is an antihistamine with sedative effects.https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id173.htm
 and "Amaral argues that the girl died in the apartment, accidentally, and that then the parents hid her body in a freezer.
Amaral recalls, in this sense, that the british police dogs found the odor of the corpse and blood inside the apartment and a car used by the couple.
Next, according to the former inspector's version on CMTV, the McCann will have cremated the child hidden in the coffin of another British woman.
The former inspector reports "information" that "three figures" were seen entering a local church, where the McCann were seen praying, several times, "through a side door", during the night.
"They had a box and a cremation of a British woman was about to take place. It is possible that the remains of the child were in this box and that they were cremated as well," Amaral said, noting that "the parents had the key to the Church."
The urn of the British woman will have been "sent, the next day, for cremation in Ferreira do Alentejo", explains the former inspector.

https://zap.aeiou.pt/goncalo-amaral-diz-maddie-congelada-cremada-157996

How is it possible not to question the revelation to the pubic domain of the "scapegoat" in 2021. "Gonçalo Amaral destroys investigation that appoints Brueckner as suspect in the abduction and death of Maddie
Former coordinator of the PJ portimão again points the finger at the parents of the British girl.
Magali Pinto
August 24, 2021
Gonçalo Amaral again destroys the German investigation that appoints Christian Brueckner as a suspect in the abduction and death of Madeleine McCann. Fourteen years later, the former coordinator of the PJ portimão again points the finger at the parents of the British girl.

"Brueckner has nothing to do with Maddie's disappearance. It wouldn't be the first time a case would be solved with the construction of a suspect. The main people responsible for the disappearance are the parents. To this day I have no doubt that the kidnapping was simulated."

https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-arrasa-investigacao-que-aponta-brueckner-como-suspeito-do-rapto-e-morte-de-maddie-veja-agora-na-cmtv

This is a very flawed man promoting a very flawed theory consisting of lies.  None more flawed and none more false than the "Brueckner dreadlocks" fabricated by Amaral.  The enormous elephant in the room which by dint of the fact no sceptic wants to talk about, proves the recognition of how untenable that assertion actually is.
Never a theory like the rest - just a deliberate lie like the rest.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2022, 07:52:06 AM

So at what to say about Amaral in my attempts  to excuse his behaviour?

He was born and raised during the reign of Salazar and was long taught to believe that his word would be Law.  Amaral still has no idea of the possibility of being wrong.  Amaral doesn't understand Wrong and it is beyond his limited comprehension because no one with half a brain was ever given the privilege. 

Salazar knew exactly what was doing.  But I don't need to talk about him.  I only need to explain what he did to his sycophants.  Judges and all.  He was a Dictator. and he stayed in Power because he manipulated certain types of people?

So, you see, you cannot actually blame Amaral because he was conditioned to support a corrupt State.  And actual  Truth never came into it.

Amaral wil alwaysl support his own truth because he knows no other.  He is probably the most sorry thing of all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2022, 07:59:18 AM
And so very soon, without even a passing thought.  Since when I have been totally bemused by the desire to blame The McCanns.  And there is some desire in this, for some inexplicably reason that continues to defeat me.

And then along came Brueckner.  But I afforded him the same courtesy that I mistakenly expected for The McCanns.  Although this would not have affected my opinion of any Justice System had it been even remotely decent.  But The Portuguese System wasn't even remotely decent.

They allowed one of their serving officers to say whatever he pleased.  And then they supported him in The Supreme Court.

Amaral wasn't a serving officer when he published his book. I think some people here have misunderstood the Portuguese Justice System completely. Not only was Amaral outranked by two other officers, the investigation was subjected to scrutiny and direction by the Public Prosecutor's Office;

No line of investigation or enquiry or search is performed by the PJ without the knowledge of the Public Prosecutor’s Office or without its permission or instruction.
https://www.portugalresident.com/the-rule-of-secrecy-of-justice-explained/

Amaral wasn't a loose cannon making all the decisions about how the investigation proceeded, he was one of a team, and certainly not the leader of it.

I think it's disgraceful to see such rabid hatred of Amaral and the Portuguese system being expressed, especially when his status is continually and deliberately misrepresented in order to make him the villain of the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2022, 08:24:41 AM
Amaral wasn't a serving officer when he published his book. I think some people here have misunderstood the Portuguese Justice System completely. Not only was Amaral outranked by two other officers, the investigation was subjected to scrutiny and direction by the Public Prosecutor's Office;

No line of investigation or enquiry or search is performed by the PJ without the knowledge of the Public Prosecutor’s Office or without its permission or instruction.
https://www.portugalresident.com/the-rule-of-secrecy-of-justice-explained/

Amaral wasn't a loose cannon making all the decisions about how the investigation proceeded, he was one of a team, and certainly not the leader of it.

I think it's disgraceful to see such rabid hatred of Amaral and the Portuguese system being expressed, especially when his status is continually and deliberately misrepresented in order to make him the villain of the case.

So they all got it wrong then.  That's okay.

But apart from Cristovao,  who supposedly wasn't even part of The Team, only Amaral wrote a book.

Where does Rabid come into this.

You have just very seriously exposed yourself.   In fact I feel sick.  I didn't realise just how far you would go.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2022, 08:45:50 AM
So they all got it wrong then.  That's okay.

But apart from Cristovao,  who supposedly wasn't even part of The Team, only Amaral wrote a book.

Where does Rabid come into this.

You have just very seriously exposed yourself.   In fact I feel sick.  I didn't realise just how far you would go.

Amaral didn't just write a book, he wrote a best-selling book. His reasons for doing so were clearly stated, but have been continually questioned.

Your cryptic comments about me are becoming sooo boring, by the way. Do you honestly think anyone is interested?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 09, 2022, 09:32:09 AM
Are you absolutely certain of that?

Wolters says CB did it , no mention on Amaral, so yes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 09, 2022, 09:35:14 AM
No, I actually don't.  And nor do I actually care any more.  You have wrecked this Forum.  But for what purpose?  Other than for your own aggrandisement?


Yet not long ago you were a senior mod, if the forum got wrecked its was done under your watch .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 09:43:26 AM
Amaral wasn't a serving officer when he published his book. I think some people here have misunderstood the Portuguese Justice System completely. Not only was Amaral outranked by two other officers, the investigation was subjected to scrutiny and direction by the Public Prosecutor's Office;

No line of investigation or enquiry or search is performed by the PJ without the knowledge of the Public Prosecutor’s Office or without its permission or instruction.
https://www.portugalresident.com/the-rule-of-secrecy-of-justice-explained/

Amaral wasn't a loose cannon making all the decisions about how the investigation proceeded, he was one of a team, and certainly not the leader of it.

I think it's disgraceful to see such rabid hatred of Amaral and the Portuguese system being expressed, especially when his status is continually and deliberately misrepresented in order to make him the villain of the case.

What exactly is the definition of the role of co-ordinator in a criminal investigation in Portugal?  Tea boy?  Filing clerk?  Or researcher for personal memoirs?

Former coordinator of the PJ portimão again points the finger at the parents of the British girl.https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-arrasa-investigacao-que-aponta-brueckner-como-suspeito-do-rapto-e-morte-de-maddie-veja-agora-na-cmtv

Seems to carry still a measure of kudos in Portugal as Amaral is constantly referred to as such.  Is it really the lowly position you and sceptics insist it is? or is this something else you've got wrong in order to sanitize his role?

He was so bad at it that he was actually sacked if you remember.

So go on then ~ give us the low down on the actual job description.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 09:48:57 AM
Amaral didn't just write a book, he wrote a best-selling book. His reasons for doing so were clearly stated, but have been continually questioned.

Your cryptic comments about me are becoming sooo boring, by the way. Do you honestly think anyone is interested?

I'm interested as a member of the UK Justice Forum discussing one of the most blatant attempts at perpetrating injustice as detailed and orchestrated by Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 09, 2022, 09:52:11 AM
I'm interested as a member of the UK Justice Forum discussing one of the most blatant attempts at perpetrating injustice as detailed and orchestrated by Amaral.

So Maddie was definitely abducted then?

How do you actually know that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 09:53:23 AM
Wolters says CB did it , no mention on Amaral, so yes.

Wolters has summarily dismissed Amaral from the equation.  For the time being.

Just as a matter of interest ~ the Amaral Dreadlocks???  No-one of a sceptic turn of mind and phrase has really commented here;  now why is that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 09, 2022, 09:54:37 AM
Wolters has summarily dismissed Amaral from the equation.  For the time being.

Just as a matter of interest ~ the Amaral Dreadlocks???  No-one of a sceptic turn of mind and phrase has really commented here;  now why is that?

Because no one really gives a shit, other than Amaral obsessives, perhaps.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2022, 09:55:21 AM
No, I actually don't.  And nor do I actually care any more.  You have wrecked this Forum.  But for what purpose?  Other than for your own aggrandisement?

It's clear you have no interest in justifying your misrepresentations of Amaral's status; preferring to spend your time attacking me. Again. Boring.....



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2022, 10:01:24 AM
Wolters has summarily dismissed Amaral from the equation.  For the time being.

Just as a matter of interest ~ the Amaral Dreadlocks???  No-one of a sceptic turn of mind and phrase has really commented here;  now why is that?

As I've no idea why he did that, what is there to say? Many peculiar theories have been aired in this case, and not just by Amaral. Kate McCann theorised that abductors did 'dummy runs' before the main event, for example.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on June 09, 2022, 10:08:54 AM

Yet not long ago you were a senior mod, if the forum got wrecked its was done under your watch .

Oh Dear.  Did you dislike me so much.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 10:29:39 AM
So Maddie was definitely abducted then?

How do you actually know that?

Amaral "implies" she may not have been.
So going by the law of averages where Amaral has got absolutely everything wrong starting from before the McCanns ever set foot in Portugal - it's a pretty safe assumption to make that if Amaral says so - there is no chance he's got it right.

Snip
Gonçalo Amaral was sentenced to one year and six months in prison for the crime of falsity of testimony, but saw the sentence be suspended for an equal period of time. In court it was proven that there were physical assaults on Leonor Cipriano on the premises of the police by law enforcement officers, but the identity of the aggressors was not established.
  https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/pais/goncalo-amaral-condenado-por-falsidade-de-depoimento_n221569

Fifteen years down the line he's still operating the notion that he is blameless and "a big boy dunnit and ran away"

Maddie case: PJ erred in not investigating Christian Brueckner better – Gonçalo Amaral
José Mateus Moreno, 8:01 - 09/10/21
The former coordinator of the investigation of the PJ, Gonçalo Amaral, launches a new book and meanwhile says that there were errors in the Portuguese investigation.

Gonçalo Amaral, according to the news published by the Observer, admits that the German Christian Brueckner was also part of the list of the Judicial Police (PJ) at the time of Maddie's disappearance in 2007, but no one insisted on looking for him.

The former PJ inspector, who coordinated the investigation at the time of the British girl's disappearance, tells the Morning Post that they knocked on Brueckner's door - now the german police's prime suspect -- but no one opened it. A report was made on the situation and no one ever looked for it again.

https://regiao-sul.pt/2021/10/09/sociedade/caso-maddie-pj-errou-ao-nao-investigar-melhor-christian-brueckner-goncalo-amaral/554575

No wonder sceptics pretend he's only the tea boy/ filing clerk.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 09, 2022, 10:32:13 AM
Amaral "implies" she may not have been.
So going by the law of averages where Amaral has got absolutely everything wrong starting from before the McCanns ever set foot in Portugal - it's a pretty safe assumption to make that if Amaral says so - there is no chance he's got it right.

Snip
Gonçalo Amaral was sentenced to one year and six months in prison for the crime of falsity of testimony, but saw the sentence be suspended for an equal period of time. In court it was proven that there were physical assaults on Leonor Cipriano on the premises of the police by law enforcement officers, but the identity of the aggressors was not established.
  https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/pais/goncalo-amaral-condenado-por-falsidade-de-depoimento_n221569

Fifteen years down the line he's still operating the notion that he is blameless and "a big boy dunnit and ran away"

Maddie case: PJ erred in not investigating Christian Brueckner better – Gonçalo Amaral
José Mateus Moreno, 8:01 - 09/10/21
The former coordinator of the investigation of the PJ, Gonçalo Amaral, launches a new book and meanwhile says that there were errors in the Portuguese investigation.

Gonçalo Amaral, according to the news published by the Observer, admits that the German Christian Brueckner was also part of the list of the Judicial Police (PJ) at the time of Maddie's disappearance in 2007, but no one insisted on looking for him.

The former PJ inspector, who coordinated the investigation at the time of the British girl's disappearance, tells the Morning Post that they knocked on Brueckner's door - now the german police's prime suspect -- but no one opened it. A report was made on the situation and no one ever looked for it again.

https://regiao-sul.pt/2021/10/09/sociedade/caso-maddie-pj-errou-ao-nao-investigar-melhor-christian-brueckner-goncalo-amaral/554575

No wonder sceptics pretend he's only the tea boy/ filing clerk.

That's a very long winded way of saying you don't actually know.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2022, 10:35:46 AM
Oh Dear.  Did you dislike me so much.

What Barrier posted is either true or untrue. What do likes or dislikes have to do with anything? I think people have allowed personal likes and dislikes to affect their opinions too much in this case. Amaral didn't write his book because he disliked the McCanns, and they didn't sue him because they disliked him. They both had more important motives for what they did imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 10:36:47 AM
Because no one really gives a shit, other than Amaral obsessives, perhaps.

Watch the language, please.

As long as individuals like you care enough to keep posting and propagating Amaral delusions there will be those who will be here to provide a balance and correction.

This is the only forum which allows me a voice.  I understand precisely why you object to that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 09, 2022, 10:37:57 AM
..
Such a ghastly pity. 

Unfortunately your side (yourself excluded) still haven't come to terms with the fact that Brueckner isn't being charged, ever, & that Wolters never really had concrete evidence in the first place, so they've returned to Amaral bashing, a safe haven from reality.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 09, 2022, 10:39:39 AM
Watch the language, please.

As long as individuals like you care enough to keep posting and propagating Amaral delusions there will be those who will be here to provide a balance and correction.

This is the only forum which allows me a voice.  I understand precisely why you object to that.

How often do you actually see me mention Amaral's theory?

I have my own, thankyou very much.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 10:41:37 AM
As I've no idea why he did that, what is there to say? Many peculiar theories have been aired in this case, and not just by Amaral. Kate McCann theorised that abductors did 'dummy runs' before the main event, for example.

Just a reminder to you ~ the Amaral Dreadlocks.  All very current and obviously all very inconvenient for some who have an opinion on everything, on which to voice an opinion.  The Amaral Dreadlocks 👀
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 09, 2022, 10:49:44 AM
Oh Dear.  Did you dislike me so much.

Likes or dislikes don't come into it, I made an observation , move it on to the favourite of some, Amaral bashing, theres not much else happening nor will there be imo in the McCann saga.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 10:51:27 AM
What Barrier posted is either true or untrue. What do likes or dislikes have to do with anything? I think people have allowed personal likes and dislikes to affect their opinions too much in this case. Amaral didn't write his book because he disliked the McCanns, and they didn't sue him because they disliked him. They both had more important motives for what they did imo.

Absolutely!
As you have noted - Amaral had his media career to get off the ground starting with his best seller.

The McCanns had a job to do first of all by keeping the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance active while they strove with every sinew to get the police to activate her case.
They managed that against all the odds and now three police forces are investigating a guy some describe as a "monster" who is now the chief suspect in a case described as a child murder.

I know which "motive" I find the more honourable one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 09, 2022, 10:52:36 AM
Just a reminder to you ~ the Amaral Dreadlocks.  All very current and obviously all very inconvenient for some who have an opinion on everything, on which to voice an opinion.  The Amaral Dreadlocks 👀

What difference do they make, Wolters has CB bangs to rights, allegedly, maybe, could be or there again..................
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 10:54:53 AM
Unfortunately your side (yourself excluded) still haven't come to terms with the fact that Brueckner isn't being charged, ever, & that Wolters never really had concrete evidence in the first place, so they've returned to Amaral bashing, a safe haven from reality.

All in good time and when investigators are pleased to do so.  Patience is a virtue which obviously neither you nor Amaral possess.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2022, 10:57:46 AM
Just a reminder to you ~ the Amaral Dreadlocks.  All very current and obviously all very inconvenient for some who have an opinion on everything, on which to voice an opinion.  The Amaral Dreadlocks 👀

My opinion is that there are many peculiar things in this case, 'The Amaral Dreadlocks' being just one of them. It certainly doesn't justify much attention imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 11:00:03 AM
What difference do they make, Wolters has CB bangs to rights, allegedly, maybe, could be or there again..................

             😁😁😁😁 The Amaral Dreadlocks 🤢🤢🤢🤢

Goodness gracious me ... exactly just how big is this elephant in the room ???
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Admin on June 09, 2022, 11:01:20 AM
Forum disruption will not be tolerated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 09, 2022, 11:01:25 AM
All in good time and when investigators are pleased to do so.  Patience is a virtue which obviously neither you nor Amaral possess.

No, Wolters said no charges in sight, none in the forseeable future.

He's looked as far as the eye can possibly see & there simply isn't anything coming.

But, if you want to continue to pretend otherwise, then you're going to find you'll be sat on that platform waiting for the train that doesn't even exist for the rest of your life.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 09, 2022, 11:03:52 AM
So Maddie was definitely abducted then?

How do you actually know that?

Good idea, right back to the beginning, Amaral says Madeleine wasn't abducted, who can counter that with irrefutable evidence she was. An investigation lasting 11 yrs up til now by SY costing some circa £12 million has failed to produce anything of substance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 11:08:29 AM
My opinion is that there are many peculiar things in this case, 'The Amaral Dreadlocks' being just one of them. It certainly doesn't justify much attention imo.

Of course it doesn't as far as you are concerned but sadly I don't think you are really too aware of how the sceptic pick-and-mix of appropriate discussion points reflects.

In my opinion the Amaral Dreadlocks fiasco says so much that I think one day it will assume proportions you and Amaral might have nightmares about.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 09, 2022, 11:11:22 AM
Of course it doesn't as far as you are concerned but sadly I don't think you are really too aware of how the sceptic pick-and-mix of appropriate discussion points reflects.

In my opinion the Amaral Dreadlocks fiasco says so much that I think one day it will assume proportions you and Amaral might have nightmares about.

There really is no helping the deluded is there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on June 09, 2022, 11:13:26 AM
Of course it doesn't as far as you are concerned but sadly I don't think you are really too aware of how the sceptic pick-and-mix of appropriate discussion points reflects.

In my opinion the Amaral Dreadlocks fiasco says so much that I think one day it will assume proportions you and Amaral might have nightmares about.

Away with you, once the investigation into CB is completed with out charges no one will be interested in such trivia.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 11:13:53 AM
No, Wolters said no charges in sight, none in the forseeable future.

He's looked as far as the eye can possibly see & there simply isn't anything coming.

But, if you want to continue to pretend otherwise, then you're going to find you'll be sat on that platform waiting for the train that doesn't even exist for the rest of your life.

Amaral's patsy won't be charged with Madeleine's case any time soon - and this you know.  There is a huge backlog of sexually deviant crimes to be dealt with first.  Brueckner's lawyers are working the cases even as we speak ~ that will take some time, but they should be finished soon.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 09, 2022, 11:15:09 AM
Good idea, right back to the beginning, Amaral says Madeleine wasn't abducted, who can counter that with irrefutable evidence she was. An investigation lasting 11 yrs up til now by SY costing some circa £12 million has failed to produce anything of substance.

Ah, but SY are only winding down because Wolters has already solved it.

Patience dear, he's going to nail Brueckner one day, he just can't say when that will be, if ever.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 11:17:13 AM
There really is no helping the deluded is there.

Nothing to say about the Amaral Dreadlocks then?  Hmmm ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 09, 2022, 11:21:59 AM
Amaral's patsy won't be charged with Madeleine's case any time soon - and this you know.  There is a huge backlog of sexually deviant crimes to be dealt with first.  Brueckner's lawyers are working the cases even as we speak ~ that will take some time, but they should be finished soon.

Wolters hasn't said anything about getting other cases out of the way first.

This is nothing but denial of reality on your part.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 11:22:22 AM
Away with you, once the investigation into CB is completed with out charges no one will be interested in such trivia.

I'm not sure Amaral's attempt to pervert the course of justice could be considered trivia.  Just as I don't think the investigation into what might be a child murder is trivia.

However it takes all kinds but I think it worth remembering this is the UK Justice Forum which gives an expectation that justice is considered quite important to those posting here.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2022, 11:25:29 AM
Of course it doesn't as far as you are concerned but sadly I don't think you are really too aware of how the sceptic pick-and-mix of appropriate discussion points reflects.

In my opinion the Amaral Dreadlocks fiasco says so much that I think one day it will assume proportions you and Amaral might have nightmares about.

I, on the other hand, think you are giving it, and Amaral, a far greater importance than they warrant. Amaral's book was given greater importance than it deserved when the McCanns decided to sue him imo. So have his interjections since. Perhaps you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that the German investigation is ignoring him? Possibly because, like Operation Grange, they have decided to start their investigation with an abduction, despite having no definitive evidence that it happened.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 11:26:03 AM
Wolters hasn't said anything about getting other cases out of the way first.

This is nothing but denial of reality on your part.

The files on the sexually deviant cases Brueckner is accused of are with his defence team.  You know this 😉
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 09, 2022, 11:30:12 AM
The files on the sexually deviant cases Brueckner is accused of are with his defence team.  You know this 😉

Yes, & Wolters has said zip about getting them charges out of the way before nailing Brueckner for Maddie's murder.

It's just that you've convinced yourself that's what's happening, because you were gullible enough to believe there actually is concrete evidence.

Even Brueckner wasn't falling for that one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2022, 11:52:39 AM
The files on the sexually deviant cases Brueckner is accused of are with his defence team.  You know this 😉

Charges may follow if a judge allows, as I understand the system.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on June 09, 2022, 05:32:51 PM
I, on the other hand, think you are giving it, and Amaral, a far greater importance than they warrant. Amaral's book was given greater importance than it deserved when the McCanns decided to sue him imo. So have his interjections since. Perhaps you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that the German investigation is ignoring him? Possibly because, like Operation Grange, they have decided to start their investigation with an abduction, despite having no definitive evidence that it happened.
I am only certain about one thing regarding the present German investigation into what they term as murder is that you don't know anything more about it than I do and in fact you may even know a bit less about it.

Do you think the BKA have any locus whatsoever in whatever shenanigans Amaral may get up to?

Amaral is and always has been Portugal's problem and disgrace.  It is for Portugal to honour the obligation to the 'Secrecy of Justice' supposed to be the cornerstone of the Portuguese justice system.  Which - just in case you have overlooked the information - has just recently declared Amaral's 'patsy' the prime suspect or arguido in the tripartite investigation into brueckner
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on June 09, 2022, 06:33:19 PM
So Maddie was definitely abducted then?

How do you actually know that?

Yes, she was abducted .  She still lives

1.  Her presence in a video from 2012 proves that.  SY also accept that video, it seems, and my full theory which has to remain secret.
2.  All the worlds best quality psychics say that she still lives and have basically said the same all through.   Comments are also made from Tarot readings and the like that there is a sophisticated and organised attempt to try and hide 'the truth behind a cloud'.
3.  A youing man has been partly identified in Matt James recent Tarots and the identification fits with my thoughts.
4.  Since I mentioned Matt James in my posts, someone initially marked it with a red circle, meaning, I think, that it is unsafe to enter this blogspot.  Anyway I risked it and found my way in again with seemingly no harm to my computer.
5.  The last time that I went in, there seemed to be additional paragraphs added and ALL anti-Mccann.


Hmmm ... The internet is a dangerous place for the truth; it can so easily be changed.



Now that I have said this I have to wait for my punishment. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 23, 2022, 08:13:13 PM
I am only certain about one thing regarding the present German investigation into what they term as murder is that you don't know anything more about it than I do and in fact you may even know a bit less about it.

Do you think the BKA have any locus whatsoever in whatever shenanigans Amaral may get up to?

Amaral is and always has been Portugal's problem and disgrace.  It is for Portugal to honour the obligation to the 'Secrecy of Justice' supposed to be the cornerstone of the Portuguese justice system.  Which - just in case you have overlooked the information - has just recently declared Amaral's 'patsy' the prime suspect or arguido in the tripartite investigation into brueckner

Is it not strange how amaral some how knew 'a german patsy' mear also the time of writing a 'new book'
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 23, 2022, 08:17:06 PM
Is it not strange how amaral some how knew 'a german patsy' mear also the time of writing a 'new book'

I dare say he has contacts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 23, 2022, 08:20:28 PM
I dare say he has contacts.

Corruption and leaking of info still going on or embarassment that they cleared bruckner without even speaking to him 😅😅😅 some clearance that mind.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 08:21:33 AM
Corruption and leaking of info still going on or embarassment that they cleared bruckner without even speaking to him 😅😅😅 some clearance that mind.

Maybe they simply had no evidence against him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 09:37:20 AM
Maybe they simply had no evidence against him.

They cleared him without questioning him because he was not their one day. He at the time should have spent resources on to say the least.
I think alot of suspects, sightings were put to pj and they could not handle the volume so a lot of things were not followed up on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 09:39:27 AM
They cleared him without questioning him because he was not their one day. He at the time should have spent resources on to say the least.
I think alot of suspects, sightings were put to pj and they could not handle the volume so a lot of things were not followed up on.

...and they had no evidence he'd abducted or murdered Maddie, or that Maddie had really been abducted in the first place, other than because the McCanns said so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 24, 2022, 09:42:59 AM
Corruption and leaking of info still going on or embarassment that they cleared bruckner without even speaking to him 😅😅😅 some clearance that mind.

Operation Grange had 600 suspects at one time, they also had the phone data, but it took until 2017 when a bestest mate said CB did it, actually was that true or did he say CB told him he knew what happened, any how no one picked up on CB including the BKA in 2013 when they talked to CB.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 09:44:24 AM
Operation Grange had 600 suspects at one time, they also had the phone data, but it took until 2017 when a bestest mate said CB did it, actually was that true or did he say CB told him he knew what happened, any how no one picked up on CB including the BKA in 2013 when they talked to CB.

Ah, but they hadn't found the photo back then.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 24, 2022, 09:49:08 AM
Ah, but they hadn't found the photo back then.

Yeah but, he's quoted as saying in October 2021 :Mr Wolters said they have no idea how she died and no DNA or photo evidence linking the German sex offender to the alleged murder.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 09:50:23 AM
Operation Grange had 600 suspects at one time, they also had the phone data, but it took until 2017 when a bestest mate said CB did it, actually was that true or did he say CB told him he knew what happened, any how no one picked up on CB including the BKA in 2013 when they talked to CB.

They sent cb a letter asking him about the mccann case in which they heard nothing back. He then 'disappeared' did he just fancy drifting away again after the lettet?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 09:53:55 AM
...and they had no evidence he'd abducted or murdered Maddie, or that Maddie had really been abducted in the first place, other than because the McCanns said so.

Yeah, because it was a **** investigation. The mccanns prized the theory of abduction because they thought maddy wad unable to reach get up close gates behind, cutains etc. From the dogs her scent disappeared or stopped at the car park. Bruckner given his known history should have been looked into. Change name in car day after etc. But the pj didnt really know him at that point. If the supermarket cameras were actually recording this would be solved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 09:58:30 AM
Operation Grange had 600 suspects at one time, they also had the phone data, but it took until 2017 when a bestest mate said CB did it, actually was that true or did he say CB told him he knew what happened, any how no one picked up on CB including the BKA in 2013 when they talked to CB.

The reports I've seen are that Busching claimed Brueckner would 'talk in great detail' about the McCann case.

It didn't seem to concern Busching whilst at the kite festival back in 2008, but when they were pissed in bar 9 years later & something about Maddie came on the TV, Brueckner turned to the subject again.

Busching was so horrified by Brueckners utterly convincing confession, that he waited until he got nicked for people trafficking before bothering to tell the police about it.

Of course, at some point Brueckner also told an undertaker that he murdered Maddie & destroyed the evidence.

It could well be that Brueckner really did abduct & murder Maddie, or, maybe he just took an interest in the case because he happened to live in the area, liked little girls & enjoyed chatting a load of shite.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 10:00:44 AM
Yeah, because it was a **** investigation. The mccanns prized the theory of abduction because they thought maddy wad unable to reach get up close gates behind, cutains etc. From the dogs her scent disappeared or stopped at the car park. Bruckner given his known history should have been looked into. Change name in car day after etc. But the pj didnt really know him at that point. If the supermarket cameras were actually recording this would be solved.

Was the window even open when Kate went in at 10?

Really is no way to be sure is there, just have to trust the McCanns really don't you, because their word is the only evidence of abduction, other than paedos talking rubbish to their mates.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 11:32:05 AM
Was the window even open when Kate went in at 10?

Really is no way to be sure is there, just have to trust the McCanns really don't you, because their word is the only evidence of abduction, other than paedos talking rubbish to their mates.

No idea, i was not there. I think 1 or 2 witness's had said that. I dont just tale their word for it either, i just think its highly unlikely they have done and hid a body.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 12:41:15 PM
No idea, i was not there. I think 1 or 2 witness's had said that. I dont just tale their word for it either, i just think its highly unlikely they have done and hid a body.

Based on anything in particular?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 01:03:57 PM
Based on anything in particular?

Timeline, amount of time to dispose, garnering worldwide media attention, 3 weeks later pick a body up. Several investigations, no influence in uk to a high standard of cover up, unknown terrain, staying for months, forenaics being destroyed by all parties possibly, character association no known crimes prior or post. List goes on.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 24, 2022, 01:06:48 PM
Timeline, amount of time to dispose, garnering worldwide media attention, 3 weeks later pick a body up. Several investigations, no influence in uk to a high standard of cover up, unknown terrain, staying for months, forenaics being destroyed by all parties possibly, character association no known crimes prior or post. List goes on.

Admittedly they got caught but Phillpotts and Huntley liked the limelight .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 01:09:56 PM
Admittedly they got caught but Phillpotts and Huntley liked the limelight .

And a completely differemt scenario! Lets just hope cb wasnt involved and she ie alive.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 01:11:28 PM
Timeline, amount of time to dispose, garnering worldwide media attention, 3 weeks later pick a body up. Several investigations, no influence in uk to a high standard of cover up, unknown terrain, staying for months, forenaics being destroyed by all parties possibly, character association no known crimes prior or post. List goes on.

Yes, that all sounds rather akward doesn't it.

I have a much, much a simpler theory you see, which the mods wouldn't like if I told you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 24, 2022, 01:14:20 PM
Yes, that all sounds rather akward doesn't it.

I have a much, much a simpler theory you see, which the mods wouldn't like if I told you.

Put it along with Pathfinders .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 01:16:31 PM
Put it along with Pathfinders .

Just think Corrie Mckeague & Smithman & it kind of explains itself really.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 01:33:45 PM
Yes, that all sounds rather akward doesn't it.

I have a much, much a simpler theory you see, which the mods wouldn't like if I told you.

1 more point usually it is parents or someone known by statistics, however on what foreign ground is the statistics it being parents? Secondly the fingerprints they did not take outside why? Well that is another question to adk but apparently to dark, but could not return in the morning. Proving simple things rp do were not being carried out within a timeframe.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 01:41:05 PM
1 more point usually it is parents or someone known by statistics, however on what foreign ground is the statistics it being parents? Secondly the fingerprints they did not take outside why? Well that is another question to adk but apparently to dark, but could not return in the morning. Proving simple things rp do were not being carried out within a timeframe.

Do they make any difference, statistics?

If I had to get rid of body, wherever I was, I don't think I'd be particularly concerned about statistics really.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 24, 2022, 01:50:00 PM
1 more point usually it is parents or someone known by statistics, however on what foreign ground is the statistics it being parents? Secondly the fingerprints they did not take outside why? Well that is another question to adk but apparently to dark, but could not return in the morning. Proving simple things rp do were not being carried out within a timeframe.
Spam thinks the McCanns deliberately  murdered Madeleine and then G carried her uncovered body through the centre of town passed loads of people, chucked the body in a bin, then went on telly bold as brass the next day to appeal for information about her disappearance.  Yes that all sounds very plausible I’m sure.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 01:57:11 PM
Spam thinks the McCanns deliberately  murdered Madeleine and then G carried her uncovered body through the centre of town passed loads of people, chucked the body in a bin, then went on telly bold as brass the next day to appeal for information about her disappearance.  Yes that all sounds very plausible I’m sure.

Well, it's possible isn't it, no way to rule it out really, unless you know of any concrete abduction evidence I'm missing?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 02:05:01 PM
Do they make any difference, statistics?
I try not to hypothesise of how to gwt rid of a body if it was me though.

If I had to get rid of body, wherever I was, I don't think I'd be particularly concerned about statistics really.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 02:10:06 PM

I try not to hypothesise of how to gwt rid of a body if it was me though.


I think about it often, there are ways when needs must.

Just last week that old guy got convicted for hiding his wife's body in his septic tank for nearly 40 years.

Bet he regrets selling his house to his nephew now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 24, 2022, 02:13:25 PM
I think about it often, there are ways when needs must.

Just last week that old guy got convicted for hiding his wife's body in his septic tank for nearly 40 years.

Bet he regrets selling his house to his nephew now.

 @)(++(*   Got a lot of enemies, have you ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 02:17:30 PM
I think about it often, there are ways when needs must.

Not related to the case or in a similar situation really.
Just last week that old guy got convicted for hiding his wife's body in his septic tank for nearly 40 years.

Bet he regrets selling his house to his nephew now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 02:18:37 PM
@)(++(*   Got a lot of enemies, have you ?

Not anymore, & the police haven't caught me yet, just got to be careful not to let anyone down in my basement  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 02:21:01 PM

Not related to the case or in a similar situation really.


I never said it was.

Just saying, bodies can be hidden you know, it does actually happen, Brueckner done a good job of it clearly, I wonder what method he chose?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 02:33:33 PM
I never said it was.


I dont know if it was bruckner, neither the method nor scenario. But their must be some convicing evidence. Like i saod not all is released.

Just saying, bodies can be hidden you know, it does actually happen, Brueckner done a good job of it clearly, I wonder what method he chose?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 02:38:52 PM

I dont know if it was bruckner, neither the method nor scenario. But their must be some convicing evidence. Like i saod not all is released.


Well, it was definitely Brueckner, Wolters said so, & he has the full backing of the BKA, MET & the PJ.
They've all seen the concrete evidence & there's absolutely no dispute at all that Brueckner murdered Maddie & you'd have to be barking mad not to believe them.

Wolters says he has enough evidence to charge already, but they want to charge him with the best body of evidence, even though what they already have is utterly conclusive & irrefutable.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 24, 2022, 02:44:17 PM
Well, it was definitely Brueckner, Wolters said so, & he has the full backing of the BKA, MET & the PJ.
They've all seen the concrete evidence & there's absolutely no dispute at all that Brueckner murdered Maddie & you'd have to be barking mad not to believe them.

Wolters says he has enough evidence to charge already, but they want to charge him with the best body of evidence, even though what they already have is utterly conclusive & irrefutable.

Maybe you should join the MET
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 02:48:06 PM
So all that's left for Wolters to do now is to find Maddie's body, parts of the body, DNA or bone fragments.

“We have new findings and new evidence. But there’s nothing that could prove in scientific terms, for example, that Madeleine is dead, such as traces of DNA or bone fragments.”

Not sure why he thought about bones being fragmented specifically, he must envisage a rather messy kind of disposal, like a wood chipper or something presumably.

Perhaps Brueckner mentioned that in part of a web chat we're not privy to.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 02:53:16 PM
Maybe you should join the MET

With a basement full like mine, you can't be serious.

Not sure they'd want to employ a former drug dealer either, although, I suppose, they wouldn't actually know I ever did that unless I told them.

I'd have to lie during the job interview when they ask me if I've ever taken drugs, & I wouldn't get away with telling them no because no one can ever lie about anything & get away with it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 24, 2022, 02:56:10 PM
So all that's left for Wolters to do now is to find Maddie's body, parts of the body, DNA or bone fragments.

“We have new findings and new evidence. But there’s nothing that could prove in scientific terms, for example, that Madeleine is dead, such as traces of DNA or bone fragments.”

Not sure why he thought about bones being fragmented specifically, he must envisage a rather messy kind of disposal, like a wood chipper or something presumably.

Perhaps Brueckner mentioned that in part of a web chat we're not privy to.

I read a novel once where that was the method of disposal and then left for scavengers

Not the sort of thing you'd expect your small time drug dealer to have to hand though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 02:59:46 PM
I read a novel once where that was the method of disposal and then left for scavengers

I think there was a case in the USA several years back, man sent his wife through the chipper & into a river. IIRC.

I love true crime, even the really grisly stuff, I'll see if I can find the story.

Here you go, this was actually back in the 80's & he didn't do a very good job of it, they found parts.

"A Norwalk Superior Court jury ruled that Crafts killed his wife, Helle, at their Newtown home in November 1986. Prosecutors said he cut the body with a chain saw and fed parts through a wood chipper on a bridge between Newtown and Southbury.

Police found tiny body parts, including a fingernail and human bone fragments, on the banks of the Housatonic River."

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/02/01/richard-crafts-released-early-1986-connecticut-woodchipper-murder/



Note to future wood chipper murderers.

Be sure the contents fall directly into the water & give the chipper a good clean or destroy it afterwards.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 24, 2022, 03:07:06 PM
So all that's left for Wolters to do now is to find Maddie's body, parts of the body, DNA or bone fragments.

“We have new findings and new evidence. But there’s nothing that could prove in scientific terms, for example, that Madeleine is dead, such as traces of DNA or bone fragments.”

Not sure why he thought about bones being fragmented specifically, he must envisage a rather messy kind of disposal, like a wood chipper or something presumably.

Perhaps Brueckner mentioned that in part of a web chat we're not privy to.


Not really, don't forget she was a slip of a child, no sign of Ben Needham was there, despite police saying he died in their professional opinion as a result of an accident .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 24, 2022, 03:15:26 PM
Someone must have done a thorough job though for there to be no trace.
Brueckner on the other hand couldn't  even dispose of his dog and porn stash successfully
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 03:17:01 PM

Not really, don't forget she was a slip of a child, no sign of Ben Needham was there, despite police saying he died in their professional opinion as a result of an accident .

Yep, the neighbour supposedly ran him over in his digger/dump truck then buried him somewhere in Kos.

Bodies can disappear in building foundations, nice load of wet concrete, pop it in there, not much chance of discovery until demolition decades later, centuries even later, & even then, a new builder may not necessarily remove old foundations before building.

Hitobashira, human pillar.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 24, 2022, 03:17:58 PM
Someone must have done a thorough job though for there to be no trace.
Brueckner on the other hand couldn't  even dispose of his dog and porn stash successfully

He might have known about an old disused well somewhere, that's possible, there have been well searches.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 24, 2022, 03:19:54 PM
I read a novel once where that was the method of disposal and then left for scavengers

Not the sort of thing you'd expect your small time drug dealer to have to hand though.
As I recall there were bone fragments in the case of April Jones, left in the fireplace of Mark Bridgers home - it doesn't require lunatic and facetious explanations for why HCW might refer to bone fragments might be something left to be found after forensic examination. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 24, 2022, 03:22:26 PM
Someone must have done a thorough job though for there to be no trace.
Brueckner on the other hand couldn't  even dispose of his dog and porn stash successfully
yes he should have thrown the dog in the bin like Amaral did with his, and Maddie's dad allegedly did with her, isn't that the most foolproof way of getting rid of an inconvenient corpse these days?  I'm surprised any murderer ever bothers digging a hole or setting fire to the remains, just put the body out for the binmen to collect, you'll get away with it scotfree for sure.. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 24, 2022, 03:25:11 PM
                           NB The thread topic is Goncalo Amaral.
Please expect further off topic posts to be deleted, thank you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 24, 2022, 03:28:20 PM
yes he should have thrown the dog in the bin like Amaral did with his, and Maddie's dad allegedly did with her, isn't that the most foolproof way of getting rid of an inconvenient corpse these days?  I'm surprised any murderer ever bothers digging a hole or setting fire to the remains, just put the body out for the binmen to collect, you'll get away with it scotfree for sure..

Apparently Amaral did not bury his dead dog because the ground was so hard.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 25, 2022, 04:27:17 PM
yes he should have thrown the dog in the bin like Amaral did with his, and Maddie's dad allegedly did with her, isn't that the most foolproof way of getting rid of an inconvenient corpse these days?  I'm surprised any murderer ever bothers digging a hole or setting fire to the remains, just put the body out for the binmen to collect, you'll get away with it scotfree for sure..

One poster on youtube believes smithmans sighting was 100 percent gerry, amd dumped in a bin. Ffs very strange to do that, something the mafia used to do in the 70's and 80's in nyc. But here we have the cunning mccanns so openely carrying a child and randomly dumping a beloved child.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 25, 2022, 04:47:31 PM
One poster on youtube believes smithmans sighting was 100 percent gerry, amd dumped in a bin. Ffs very strange to do that, something the mafia used to do in the 70's and 80's in nyc. But here we have the cunning mccanns so openely carrying a child and randomly dumping a beloved child.
I’ve had a good old traipse around PdL on Google Maps Streetview and there’s a veritable absence of bins apart from the occasional litter bin.  Perhaps the Bin Theory people would like to pinpoint exactly where this handy body disposal unit was kept?  Presumably it was right on the pavement somewhere so that the occulter didn’t have to trespass onto private property.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 25, 2022, 04:52:36 PM
I’ve had a good old traipse around PdL on Google Maps Streetview and there’s a veritable absence of bins apart from the occasional litter bin.  Perhaps the Bin Theory people would like to pinpoint exactly where this handy body disposal unit was kept?  Presumably it was right on the pavement somewhere so that the occulter didn’t have to trespass onto private property.

Apparently keep in a bin, 3 weeks remove a child or randomly go to landfill site. Some people just love theories of such sort.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 25, 2022, 04:55:23 PM
 Dispatch's Oct 2007 will tell you about the bins.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 05:16:47 PM
One poster on youtube believes smithmans sighting was 100 percent gerry, amd dumped in a bin. Ffs very strange to do that, something the mafia used to do in the 70's and 80's in nyc. But here we have the cunning mccanns so openely carrying a child and randomly dumping a beloved child.

Well, not impossible is it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 05:19:06 PM
I’ve had a good old traipse around PdL on Google Maps Streetview and there’s a veritable absence of bins apart from the occasional litter bin.  Perhaps the Bin Theory people would like to pinpoint exactly where this handy body disposal unit was kept?  Presumably it was right on the pavement somewhere so that the occulter didn’t have to trespass onto private property.

You were googling street view from 2007 were you, ok.

Perhaps you'd like to tell me what Brueckner did with Maddie’s body.
You answer that, Wolters can wrap things up & we can put my bin theory to bed once & for all.
Off you go.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 05:21:32 PM
Apparently keep in a bin, 3 weeks remove a child or randomly go to landfill site. Some people just love theories of such sort.

Bodies do end up in landfill, you know.
Maybe people commit suicide at the rubbish dump because there's simply no other way they could end up there really is there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 05:24:02 PM

Kate, in her book, said that she remembered opening a big dumpster type bin & thinking 'please god, don't let her be in here'.
She must have been lying because there aren't any bins in Luz, are there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 25, 2022, 05:25:38 PM
Dispatch's Oct 2007 will tell you about the bins.
So which bin did Small thman chuck the body in?  Can you identify it on a map please?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 05:28:34 PM
So which bin did Small thman chuck the body in?  Can you identify it on a map please?

Have you got a map dated 2007?

There were dumpster bins around, Kate said so.
Or was she lying about that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 05:30:33 PM
There are resteraunts & bars all around Luz.

One wonders where they put their commercial waste, bearing in mind there are no such things as bins in Luz?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 05:33:06 PM
So which bin did Small thman chuck the body in?  Can you identify it on a map please?

Which big dumpster bin was Kate talking about in her Book?
Can you point to it on a map Please?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 05:53:08 PM

It's bad enough Luz was crawling with child abducting paedos, let alone the rat infestations they must have, from all the rubbish piled up, where they don't believe in having bins. Still, at least they never have to pay for binmen.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 25, 2022, 06:04:02 PM
Which big dumpster bin was Kate talking about in her Book?
Can you point to it on a map Please?

It doesn't really matter about bins in the context of the thread.  Amaral discarded that theory in favour of the one involving
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 06:11:13 PM
It doesn't really matter about bins in the context of the thread.  Amaral discarded that theory in favour of the one involving
  • the key to the church
  • dark figures seen in the darkness at the dark church carrying 'something'
  • an elderly British woman was lying in repose in the church
  • from which the woman's remains and coffin were taken to a crematorium
  • Amaral's latest 'theory' explaining the disposal of Madeleine's remains became ~

    that the strange figures who he claims 'someone' had seen lurking at the church, were in the process of carrying Madeleine's remains to be placed in the coffin resting in the church.
    From where it would be taken to the crematorium.

    Bearing in mind, this was not entirely a new concept as a pet crematorium had been checked during the investigation.
  • so just a waste of space discussing dumpsters since Amaral has most definitely removed them from the equation

Well, good for Amaral, but I'm not Amaral, nor am I Wolters either, & neither Wolters, nor Amaral, nor me, the PJ or SY can prove what happened to Maddie,  we all have that in common.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 25, 2022, 06:45:08 PM
It doesn't really matter about bins in the context of the thread.  Amaral discarded that theory in favour of the one involving
  • the key to the church
  • dark figures seen in the darkness at the dark church carrying 'something'
  • an elderly British woman was lying in repose in the church
  • from which the woman's remains and coffin were taken to a crematorium
  • Amaral's latest 'theory' explaining the disposal of Madeleine's remains became ~

    that the strange figures who he claims 'someone' had seen lurking at the church, were in the process of carrying Madeleine's remains to be placed in the coffin resting in the church.
    From where it would be taken to the crematorium.

    Bearing in mind, this was not entirely a new concept as a pet crematorium had been checked during the investigation.
  • so just a waste of space discussing dumpsters since Amaral has most definitely removed them from the equation
Strange that he would have dismissed bins as a method of body disposal when he himself had used one for just that purpose.  As for the hiding the body in a coffin thing, I reckon he’d been watching too many episodes of Tales Of the Unexpected.  My question to him would be - how did the McCanns retrieve the cremated remains, freeze them and then put them in the hire car three weeks later? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 25, 2022, 06:59:55 PM
Well, good for Amaral, but I'm not Amaral, nor am I Wolters either, & neither Wolters, nor Amaral, nor me, the PJ or SY can prove what happened to Maddie,  we all have that in common.

I can from 2012.  She was then alive and well.

But where she is now, sadly, I know not.

I could make some educated guesses tho
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2022, 07:12:22 PM
Well, good for Amaral, but I'm not Amaral, nor am I Wolters either, & neither Wolters, nor Amaral, nor me, the PJ or SY can prove what happened to Maddie,  we all have that in common.

Wolters clearly knows what happened to Maddie ..just needs to find the matching wall paper to prove conclusively who did it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 07:27:36 PM
Wolters clearly knows what happened to Maddie ..just needs to find the matching wall paper to prove conclusively who did it

Could be a problem if Brueckner's landlord redecorated after 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 25, 2022, 07:32:52 PM
Could be a problem if Brueckner's landlord redecorated after 2007.

Could be what's holding Fritz up
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 25, 2022, 07:35:37 PM
Have you got a map dated 2007?

There were dumpster bins around, Kate said so.
Or was she lying about that?

SIL lived in Luz at the time and says;

"The Algarve, like all of the Mediterranean countries I have visited, does not do house to house collection with individual-sized bins for a single house. The bins are communal bins, placed at convenient locations, and individuals take their domestic rubbish to such a designated point. This requires bins that are several times the size of a UK wheelie bin...

Dispatches then says that the bins are emptied every night, between midnight and 4 AM, and that they were emptied at this time on 4th May i.e. about two hours after Madeleine went missing."

SIL doesn't agree that all bins were emptied every night;

"Only a sub-set of bins are emptied on a given day, as there is no need to empty them more frequently. Most wheelie bin points have multiple bins on them and simply do not fill up in a day or two"

There's a mention that Amaral was aware that bin disposal was a possibility;

"Gonçalo Amaral in his book, “A Verdade Da Mentira” alludes to the fact that this disposal method was available to the McCanns."
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2014/11/05/body-disposal-the-wheelie-bins-prosecution-case/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 07:39:02 PM
I can from 2012.  She was then alive and well.

But where she is now, sadly, I know not.

I could make some educated guesses tho

I still believe SY know where Maddie is & Operation Grange is a surveillance operation.

It's notable that OG recieved a further years funding, even though they need not bother since according to Wolters he's on the brink of wrapping things up.

It's a ruse, a double bluff, all this clamour about Brueckner is to blindside Maddie's real captors, if Maddie's real abductors knew the police were onto them, they could panic & harm her & all the other missing girls they have trapped in the elite paedophile, child prostitution mansion.

Prince Andrew & Epstein was just the tip of the iceberg, this is a scandal involving world leaders, royalty, major celebrities & politicians, so OG are having to tread carefully.

I have evidence for all of this, but I'm afraid I'm not at liberty to share, you'll just have to take my word for it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 25, 2022, 08:59:40 PM
SIL lived in Luz at the time and says;

"The Algarve, like all of the Mediterranean countries I have visited, does not do house to house collection with individual-sized bins for a single house. The bins are communal bins, placed at convenient locations, and individuals take their domestic rubbish to such a designated point. This requires bins that are several times the size of a UK wheelie bin...

Dispatches then says that the bins are emptied every night, between midnight and 4 AM, and that they were emptied at this time on 4th May i.e. about two hours after Madeleine went missing."

SIL doesn't agree that all bins were emptied every night;

"Only a sub-set of bins are emptied on a given day, as there is no need to empty them more frequently. Most wheelie bin points have multiple bins on them and simply do not fill up in a day or two"

There's a mention that Amaral was aware that bin disposal was a possibility;

"Gonçalo Amaral in his book, “A Verdade Da Mentira” alludes to the fact that this disposal method was available to the McCanns."
https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2014/11/05/body-disposal-the-wheelie-bins-prosecution-case/
Firstly, SIL did not live in PdL at the time.  Secondly, Amaral clearly dismissed the bin theory because a) he never considered doing a search of the local tip and b) he concluded Madeleine’s coprse had been frozen and transported three weeks after she was first discovered missing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 09:19:22 PM
Firstly, SIL did not live in PdL at the time.  Secondly, Amaral clearly dismissed the bin theory because a) he never considered doing a search of the local tip and b) he concluded Madeleine’s coprse had been frozen and transported three weeks after she was first discovered missing.

Well, Brueckner got rid of her somewhere.  A bin seems one of the many reasonable possibilities to me.
Kate considered it a possibility as early as the night of May 3rd.
So there's something I have in common with Kate, we both believe Maddie could have been put in the bin. Not such an insane theory after all aye.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 25, 2022, 09:29:05 PM
Well, Brueckner got rid of her somewhere.  A bin seems one of the many reasonable possibilities to me.
Kate considered it a possibility as early as the night of May 3rd.
So there's something I have in common with Kate, we both believe Maddie could have been put in the bin. Not such an insane theory after all aye.

Given the circumstances, they would find their daughter dead and just randomly in tht counry put her in a bin? Just insanity.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
Given the circumstances, they would find their daughter dead and just randomly in tht counry put her in a bin? Just insanity.

Who says they found her dead?
Amaral? Yes, he believed there was an accident. But what if there wasn't an accident?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 25, 2022, 09:35:14 PM
Given the circumstances, they would find their daughter dead and just randomly in tht counry put her in a bin? Just insanity.
Fancy Kate revealing in her book the actual means of disposal her husband used - what a brass neck!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 09:36:52 PM
Fancy Kate revealing in her book the actual means of disposal her husband used - what a brass neck!

Well, she left it long enough that it wouldn't matter, in fairness.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 09:43:51 PM

It's just a fact I'm afraid.
It's a viable method of disposal for the abductor, Kate believes.
There's an element of chance involved. Maybe the binman happens to look in the bin that day.
Or maybe they do what the normally do, hook the bin to the lorry, hit the button & go collect the next bin.
Not much chance anyone will find anything after that.
The police believe D'Andre Lane may have used the bin method, maybe one day he'll say what he did with Bianca, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 10:10:29 PM

I mean it sounds terrible doesn't it.
There are worse methods I can think of, but they all start getting rather complicated & messy.
In the D'Andre lane case, I read that by the time the police realised there was a missing time period in his account of the car jacking, they halted all bin collections but believe by then it was already too late. Quite a lot of waste goes straight into incinerators, or if it goes into landfill, will quickly be buried. The police spent millions on landfill searches for Corrie Mckeague with no results. But he was definitely there somewhere, if not already incinerated.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 25, 2022, 10:18:48 PM

So anyway, yes, back to Goncarlo Amaral.
He should have halted all bin collections the moment the missing persons report came in.
You can add that to his list of failures, I don't mind, I'm not a fan of his, I prefer Brueckner these days.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2022, 08:14:40 AM
Given the circumstances, they would find their daughter dead and just randomly in tht counry put her in a bin? Just insanity.
The troll believes the McCanns murdered their daughter before they went to dinner and then left her body in an unlocked apartment, apparently happy for friends of theirs to check on the kids during the evening (even though one of them had been strangled or bludgeoned to death) and then decided that the best time to dispose of the body was mid-way through dinner and to do so by carrying it uncovered through the holiday village to a bin some distance away, knowing that they could bump into other holiday makers at any time.  And then, knowing that he had been seen by numerous people, the father stood before the world’s media (which he apparently invited to cover the disappearance in the first place)  making a bold appeal for information leading to her return.  As you say, just insanity.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 08:27:24 AM
The troll believes the McCanns murdered their daughter before they went to dinner and then left her body in an unlocked apartment, apparently happy for friends of theirs to check on the kids during the evening (even though one of them had been strangled or bludgeoned to death) and then decided that the best time to dispose of the body was mid-way through dinner and to do so by carrying it uncovered through the holiday village to a bin some distance away, knowing that they could bump into other holiday makers at any time.  And then, knowing that he had been seen by numerous people, the father stood before the world’s media (which he apparently invited to cover the disappearance in the first place)  making a bold appeal for information leading to her return.  As you say, just insanity.

There is a very serious lack of logic going on here and right from the start.  The McCanns had neither the time or the means to dispose of their daughter's body.  But it's a bit of a waste of time pointing this out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2022, 08:40:11 AM
The troll believes the McCanns murdered their daughter before they went to dinner and then left her body in an unlocked apartment, apparently happy for friends of theirs to check on the kids during the evening (even though one of them had been strangled or bludgeoned to death) and then decided that the best time to dispose of the body was mid-way through dinner and to do so by carrying it uncovered through the holiday village to a bin some distance away, knowing that they could bump into other holiday makers at any time.  And then, knowing that he had been seen by numerous people, the father stood before the world’s media (which he apparently invited to cover the disappearance in the first place)  making a bold appeal for information leading to her return.  As you say, just insanity.
And not only all this, but they managed to act in a way entirely consistent with parents who were experiencing the sudden unexpected disappearance of a child (according to the FLOs) AND they got away with it!!!!  Despite the enormous risks they took which resulted in one of them being supposedly seen in the act of hiding a body!!!  Truly insane. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 09:06:46 AM
The troll believes the McCanns murdered their daughter before they went to dinner and then left her body in an unlocked apartment, apparently happy for friends of theirs to check on the kids during the evening (even though one of them had been strangled or bludgeoned to death) and then decided that the best time to dispose of the body was mid-way through dinner and to do so by carrying it uncovered through the holiday village to a bin some distance away, knowing that they could bump into other holiday makers at any time.  And then, knowing that he had been seen by numerous people, the father stood before the world’s media (which he apparently invited to cover the disappearance in the first place)  making a bold appeal for information leading to her return.  As you say, just insanity.

Nope, you have that wrong I'm I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 09:07:11 AM
And not only all this, but they managed to act in a way entirely consistent with parents who were experiencing the sudden unexpected disappearance of a child (according to the FLOs) AND they got away with it!!!!  Despite the enormous risks they took which resulted in one of them being supposedly seen in the act of hiding a body!!!  Truly insane.

Not impossible.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 09:09:07 AM
There is a very serious lack of logic going on here and right from the start. The McCanns had neither the time or the means to dispose of their daughter's body.  But it's a bit of a waste of time pointing this out.

Depends on exactly how accurate the timeline is, no way to be certain is there, & I've just described an entirely viable method, but never mind.

Of course, if you know of any credible evidence Maddie was abducted, other than, because the McCanns said so, that would debunk my theory entirely.

Do you know of any of that, care to share it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2022, 09:11:12 AM
There is a very serious lack of logic going on here and right from the start.  The McCanns had neither the time or the means to dispose of their daughter's body. But it's a bit of a waste of time pointing this out.
Even barmy old Blonk realises the truth of this statement which is why he has had to invent another (equally implausible) scenario.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 09:13:25 AM
Even barmy old Blonk realises the truth of this statement which is why he has had to invent another (equally implausible) scenario.

Well, let's see/hear the abduction evidence & we can put this bin theory to bed once & for all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 26, 2022, 09:15:40 AM
Well, let's see/hear the abduction evidence & we can put this bin theory to bed once & for all.

The bin theory can't be put to bed, what if CB used one, after all Wolters says he killed the girl.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 09:19:16 AM
The bin theory can't be put to bed, what if CB used one, after all Wolters says he killed the girl.

Well Brueckner whom I believe was Smithman, was headed somewhere, & Maddie was never seen again.

So yes, maybe he took her to the dark deserted beach, or an apartment somewhere nearby, did what he wanted to do, then disposed of her in the manner I've described.

No way to rule it out entirely really is there, I mean, it's possible isn't, Kate herself thought so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 11:47:21 AM
Not impossible.

You would have to be a socipath or psychopath to act normal like that, neither of them appear to be. No one had any concerns about the eay they acted until the reporting of maddy and the only witness to criticise was that of yvonne martin. The morning after asking kate randomly if gerry was the real father lmao. Thats certainly a question i would intervene with as a member of the public
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 12:00:50 PM
You would have to be a socipath or psychopath to act normal like that, neither of them appear to be. No one had any concerns about the eay they acted until the reporting of maddy and the only witness to criticise was that of yvonne martin. The morning after asking kate randomly if gerry was the real father lmao. Thats certainly a question i would intervene with as a member of the public

Not necessarily.

Maybe they put on a convincing enough act & those around them fell for it.

No way to be sure really is there.

That is, until the three police forces release the concrete abduction evidence, & they don't appear to be doing that anytime soon, & haven't in the last 15 years either.

But maybe tomorrow.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2022, 12:51:55 PM
The bin theory can't be put to bed, what if CB used one, after all Wolters says he killed the girl.
CB would not have put her in a bin in the centre of a town he used to hang out in unless he really has rocks in his head.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 12:53:17 PM
Not necessarily.


Just does not convince me, they were too sociable for everyone. Muat have at least one person in those days mention something strange or wrong but none.
Maybe they put on a convincing enough act & those around them fell for it.

No way to be sure really is there.

That is, until the three police forces release the concrete abduction evidence, & they don't appear to be doing that anytime soon, & haven't in the last 15 years either.

But maybe tomorrow.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 01:04:11 PM

Just does not convince me, they were too sociable for everyone. Muat have at least one person in those days mention something strange or wrong but none.


Well good for you.

Me personally, I'm not convinced Maddie was abducted.

Do you know of any evidence that she actually was, other than, because the McCanns said so & SY said so, & Wolters said so, & Brueckner said so?

Any abduction evidence other than that spring to mind?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 01:06:02 PM
CB would not have put her in a bin in the centre of a town he used to hang out in unless he really has rocks in his head.

No way to be certain he didn't really though, is there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 01:17:23 PM
Well good for you.

The fact she disappeared is one reason. No one knows fully, however im not like others who has a 100 percwnt belief. I just think its more likely she was taken.
Me personally, I'm not convinced Maddie was abducted.

Do you know of any evidence that she actually was, other than, because the McCanns said so & SY said so, & Wolters said so, & Brueckner said so?

Any abduction evidence other than that spring to mind?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 01:32:28 PM

The fact she disappeared is one reason. No one knows fully, however im not like others who has a 100 percwnt belief. I just think its more likely she was taken.


The fact she disappeared?

Well that doesn't prove anything at all really does it.

I mean, she could have disappeared because the McCanns made her disappear.

No way to rule that out entirely really is there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 01:41:07 PM
The fact she disappeared?

Well that doesn't prove anything at all really does it.

I mean, she could have disappeared because the McCanns made her disappear.

No way to rule that out entirely really is there.
[Im still working this reply thing out so my replies look dodgy when quoting. Their doesnt have to be evidence of abduction in terms of from a bedroom, i said jemmied windows which could have been the individual(s) looking out, unidentified prints, no prints analysed on outside window, psychology of the parents, witness statements, foreign country, list goes on, foreign country getting involved. This is reality not conspiracy.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2022, 01:44:43 PM
Ross, select quote then scroll to the bottom and write your reply in there, leaving at least one line between your text and the text you are quoting.  Also, don’t bother engaging with the troll, it’s pointless as you will eventually discover.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 01:48:41 PM
The fact she disappeared?

Well that doesn't prove anything at all really does it.

I mean, she could have disappeared because the McCanns made her disappear.

No way to rule that out entirely really is there.
[Im still working this reply thing out so my replies look dodgy when quoting. Their doesnt have to be evidence of abduction in terms of from a bedroom, i said jemmied windows which could have been the individual(s) looking out, unidentified prints, no prints analysed on outside window, psychology of the parents, witness statements, foreign country, list goes on, foreign country getting involved. This is reality not conspiracy.

When you click on Quote you have to scroll down to the bottom of the comment until you see the word Quote in brackets.
Comment after that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 26, 2022, 01:50:48 PM
If Amaral had done his job properly there could have been DNA from the abductor.   He allowed the bedding to be washed !!   Unbelievable.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 01:52:01 PM

Their doesnt have to be evidence of abduction in terms of from a bedroom, i said jemmied windows which could have been the individual(s) looking out, unidentified prints, no prints analysed on outside window, psychology of the parents, witness statements, foreign country, list goes on, foreign country getting involved. This is reality not conspiracy.


But, how can we be absolutely certain Maddie was definitely in her bedroom that night, laying there, as Gerry claims, at around 9pm?

I suppose we just have to take his word for it really don't we.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 01:54:37 PM
If Amaral had done his job properly there could have been DNA from the abductor.   He allowed the bedding to be washed !!   Unbelievable.

That's if there ever even was an abductor.

No way to be certain there was really, is there, until Wolters reveals the concrete evidence that is.

Maybe that'll happen tomorrow.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2022, 02:06:42 PM
If Amaral had done his job properly there could have been DNA from the abductor.   He allowed the bedding to be washed !!   Unbelievable.

Wouldn't that have been up to those gathering the forensic evidence?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 02:26:35 PM
Wouldn't that have been up to those gathering the forensic evidence?

Yes but he couldnt be bothered to turn up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 02:28:49 PM
Wouldn't that have been up to those gathering the forensic evidence?

I'm not really sure what people were expecting to find on Maddie's bedclothes?

Unless, perhaps they are thinking maybe the abductor assaulted her in bed, but there were no reports of blood stains. 

I suppose he could have left a semen stain, but then that complicates the Tanner sighting as being the abductor really.

Maddie lay undisturbed when Gerry (claims) to have seen her at 9pm (although, the abductor was already in the apartment then) Gerry spends 10 minutes in the apartment & as he leaves bumps straight into Gez.

Tannerman is seen walking past a few short minutes later, & Maddie is apparently sleeping.

So, I can only conclude the abductor left the wardrobe as soon as Gerry left, hastily made a semen deposit on the bedspread, opened the window & shutters, & climbed out whilst carrying the sleeping Maddie, all within a matter of about 5 mins.

I mean, it's not impossible I suppose.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 26, 2022, 02:36:59 PM
If Amaral had done his job properly there could have been DNA from the abductor.   He allowed the bedding to be washed !!   Unbelievable.

That's  assuming there was an abductor.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 02:38:43 PM
That's  assuming there was an abductor.

Outside windows could have at least been analysed
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 26, 2022, 02:39:29 PM
Outside windows could have at least been analysed

For what reason, the damage that wasn't ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 02:42:26 PM
For what reason, the damage that wasn't ?

They fingerprint analysed the shutters and inside windows, the thepry the pj were believed to be told was they entered from the outside of window, why leave one window, in pj files it states it was too dark, but no mention of ever coming back, sectioning it off and analysing the outside. Am npt saying thats how it 100 percent happened but its a p*** poor forensic team to not analyse it given the statements.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2022, 02:50:49 PM
That's  assuming there was an abductor.
they could have analysed the bedding for all sorts on non abductor related stuff, all the heroin and other hard drugs the McCanns may have fed their babies to keep them quiet for example.  The ensuing blood, faeces and vomit stains, and other bodily fluids that could have clinched a conviction of one or more of the Tapas group.  You didn't think of that did you, and nor did the genius Dr Amaral. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 26, 2022, 02:51:26 PM
They fingerprint analysed the shutters and inside windows, the thepry the pj were believed to be told was they entered from the outside of window, why leave one window, in pj files it states it was too dark, but no mention of ever coming back, sectioning it off and analysing the outside. Am npt saying thats how it 100 percent happened but its a p*** poor forensic team to not analyse it given the statements.

You've raised another issue, if the window was ever open   who shut it ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 02:55:06 PM
You've raised another issue, if the window was ever open   who shut it ?

Gerry did, he made a statement of that, however answer the question if possible why were no prints taken on the putside of the window bevause of the day it was too dark. No returning to take prints? No mention of outside window.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 02:55:33 PM
They fingerprint analysed the shutters and inside windows, the thepry the pj were believed to be told was they entered from the outside of window, why leave one window, in pj files it states it was too dark, but no mention of ever coming back, sectioning it off and analysing the outside. Am npt saying thats how it 100 percent happened but its a p*** poor forensic team to not analyse it given the statements.

The abductor didn't enter through the window though.

He must have crept in through the back, because the window wasn't open during Gerry's check.

When he entered the apartment he noticed the bedroom door was further open than he'd previously left it.

https://youtu.be/OZ8jmdWlB8Y?t=745

So, the abductor was already inside the apartment, hiding somewhere.

Unless, maybe, Gerry just didn't notice the window was open when really it was, or perhaps the abductor did come in through the window but then closed it behind himself. Or perhaps the window was open the whole time of Gerry's check, but the wind restrained itself from blowing the curtains open & slamming any doors until Kate went in.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 26, 2022, 03:02:55 PM
Gerry did, he made a statement of that, however answer the question if possible why were no prints taken on the putside of the window bevause of the day it was too dark. No returning to take prints? No mention of outside window.

If there is no sign of a forced entry why would the out side need dusting ?

The police arrived to a potential crime scene to be met by a closed window and shutter, what reason would they have to suspect the window was used ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
If there is no sign of a forced entry why would the out side need dusting ?

The police arrived to a potential crime scene to be met by a closed window and shutter, what reason would they have to suspect the window was used ?

So why take prints from the inside rather than the outside, they did not come up with the theory until after the prints were taken. Makes no sense. You would do it anyways.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 26, 2022, 03:18:52 PM
So why take prints from the inside rather than the outside, they did not come up with the theory until after the prints were taken. Makes no sense. You would do it anyways.

It makes no sense because none of it does, who said the window must have been used, it was closed, the shutter was closed, how does a crime scene's officer collect evidence from that which is not used ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 03:28:27 PM
It makes no sense because none of it does, who said the window must have been used, it was closed, the shutter was closed, how does a crime scene's officer collect evidence from that which is not used ?

So why take prints of the inside and the shutters then lmao. Ah too dark to take prints, fair enough come again in morning, that was what was said in pj files it was too dark, so do it next day then what stopped them? Incompetence or corruption.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 03:29:49 PM
So why take prints of the inside and the shutters then lmao. Ah too dark to take prints, fair enough come again in morning, that was what was said in pj files it was too dark, so do it next day then what stopped them? Incompetence or corruption.

Probably corruption.

The PJ were involved in Madeleine's abduction, that's why they never went after Brueckner & blamed the parents instead.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 26, 2022, 03:32:32 PM
Probably corruption.

The PJ were involved in Madeleine's abduction, that's why they never went after Brueckner & blamed the parents instead.

Thanks for that swerved comment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 03:33:53 PM
Probably corruption.

The PJ were involved in Madeleine's abduction, that's why they never went after Brueckner & blamed the parents instead.

Never a truer word than spoken in jest.  Or so that say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 03:36:01 PM
Never a truer word than spoken in jest.  Or so that say.

Then why hasn't Wolters gone after the PJ?

Maybe that'll happen when he wraps up the case against Brueckner, although he can't say when that might happen, if ever.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 03:37:01 PM
Thanks for that swerved comment.

You suggested corruption, I simply agreed, no swerve here, mate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2022, 03:45:46 PM
The bin theory can't be put to bed, what if CB used one, after all Wolters says he killed the girl.

Your comment makes three suppositions.  Amaral has knocked back all three.  All the sceptic whatiffery that can be dreamed up just isn't going to mean a thing in the face of evidence to the contrary.

Delighted to watch the squirming that's going on in the face of current developments which include the desperation of Amaral putting his head in a noose by very clear attempts to pervert the course of justice.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 26, 2022, 03:46:11 PM
So why take prints of the inside and the shutters then lmao. Ah too dark to take prints, fair enough come again in morning, that was what was said in pj files it was too dark, so do it next day then what stopped them? Incompetence or corruption.

They did come again in the day light there is a much criticised (interestingly by supporters) picture of a person taking finger prints wearing only one glove 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 26, 2022, 03:49:00 PM
Frankly I think he's massaging the media. It's gratifying to him in an almost erotic way. Taunting. He's got nothing better to do. He's got nothing else to do. He probably fancies himself smarter than all the players, thinks LE or the public will be impressed, influenced, manipulated. He may have some genuine confidence in that he could be fairly certain MM is unfindable, depending on how and when and where he left her. But most of his confidence IMO stems from whatever demons lurk in his nasty personality. Unquenchable love of self, utter lack of human empathy, pathological attraction to pain (other people's), etc, etc. Bet he was well on his way to the dark triad by age 12. IMO he can smell fear and it turns him on.

Grotesque. Devoid of humanness.

I believe he will be convicted by linkage. He filmed or documented or "confessed" (in some fashion before or after), used props or techniques identifiable in other crime scenes.

Tragically I think he kept MM for a time. And I suspect there's digital proof, linked to him via known crimes, and that poor MM had injuries inconsistent with survival/life.

If he's a trainee of hell, he surpassed his master




This is from a poster on WS... Pretty well my thoughts
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2022, 03:53:57 PM
Probably corruption.

The PJ were involved in Madeleine's abduction, that's why they never went after Brueckner & blamed the parents instead.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with that one.

Cristovao wrote a book on Madeleine's abduction.  He is a corrupt cop.
Amaral wrote a book on Madeleine's abduction.  He is a corrupt cop.

Amaral was still following through on slurring Madeleine's parents even as he was doing the rounds of the TV studios promoting misleading information about Brueckner.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 03:55:13 PM
Frankly I think he's massaging the media. It's gratifying to him in an almost erotic way. Taunting. He's got nothing better to do. He's got nothing else to do. He probably fancies himself smarter than all the players, thinks LE or the public will be impressed, influenced, manipulated. He may have some genuine confidence in that he could be fairly certain MM is unfindable, depending on how and when and where he left her. But most of his confidence IMO stems from whatever demons lurk in his nasty personality. Unquenchable love of self, utter lack of human empathy, pathological attraction to pain (other people's), etc, etc. Bet he was well on his way to the dark triad by age 12. IMO he can smell fear and it turns him on.

Grotesque. Devoid of humanness.

I believe he will be convicted by linkage. He filmed or documented or "confessed" (in some fashion before or after), used props or techniques identifiable in other crime scenes.

Tragically I think he kept MM for a time. And I suspect there's digital proof, linked to him via known crimes, and that poor MM had injuries inconsistent with survival/life.

If he's a trainee of hell, he surpassed his master




This is from a poster on WS... Pretty well my thoughts

Nice big pile of speculation, sod all to back it up really though is there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 03:57:54 PM
I think you may have hit the nail on the head with that one.

Cristovao wrote a book on Madeleine's abduction.  He is a corrupt cop.
Amaral wrote a book on Madeleine's abduction.  He is a corrupt cop.

Amaral was still following through on slurring Madeleine's parents even as he was doing the rounds of the TV studios promoting misleading information about Brueckner.

Bloody hell, well you'd better let Ross B know you find it plausible, because he assumed I was just taking the mick for some reason.

There you go Ross, 2 senior moderators like your corruption theory, it's becoming like websleuths around here.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 03:58:13 PM
They did come again in the day light there is a much criticised (interestingly by supporters) picture of a person taking finger prints wearing only one glove

Only on the shutters.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 03:59:17 PM
Only on the shutters.

Oh well, doesn't matter does it.

Wolters has solved it all & he's going to be proving his case in court any day now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2022, 04:04:06 PM
They did come again in the day light there is a much criticised (interestingly by supporters) picture of a person taking finger prints wearing only one glove

I must give Amaral his due here.  He is on record as criticising the collection of forensics, actually singling out the incident to which you refer.

I doubt very much if Amaral could be classed as a 'supporter'.  I think the problem you are having is that in the post CSI world everyone knows what is competent and what is incompetent (even Amaral).  Therefore a jibe such as (interestingly supporters) carries no weight but to emphasise a really weird mindset held by some sceptics.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 04:04:36 PM
Your comment makes three suppositions.  Amaral has knocked back all three.  All the sceptic whatiffery that can be dreamed up just isn't going to mean a thing in the face of evidence to the contrary.

Delighted to watch the squirming that's going on in the face of current developments which include the desperation of Amaral putting his head in a noose by very clear attempts to pervert the course of justice.

Is there any?

When is Wolters bringing Brueckner to justice then, any idea when that'll be exactly, because he hasn't
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2022, 04:12:13 PM
Bloody hell, well you'd better let Ross B know you find it plausible, because he assumed I was just taking the mick for some reason.

There you go Ross, 2 senior moderators like your corruption theory, it's becoming like websleuths around here.

RossB asked the question.  You did not have to respond.

I responded to your post https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg687342#msg687342 in which you have owned "corruption".  So it is all yours
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 04:15:38 PM
RossB asked the question.  You did not have to respond.

I responded to your post https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg687342#msg687342 in which you have owned "corruption".  So it is all yours

Well he suggested it.

Personally I think it's ridiculous idea with nothing at all to support it.

Unless I'm wrong & Wolters nails Amaral when he's finished nailing Brueckner, whenever that's supposed to be happening.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 26, 2022, 04:36:55 PM
Well he suggested it.

Personally I think it's ridiculous idea with nothing at all to support it.

Unless I'm wrong & Wolters nails Amaral when he's finished nailing Brueckner, whenever that's supposed to be happening.

Actually, I rather doubt the BKA would have any jurisdiction regarding Amaral.

That would be a job for the Portuguese authorities whose record of prosecuting miscreants is rather dire.  So I reckon Amaral may well be safe for quite some time; unless he oversteps the mark again and becomes just too much of an embarrassment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 26, 2022, 04:38:22 PM
Wouldn't that have been up to those gathering the forensic evidence?

You would have thought as there was a forensic examination of 5a Amaral would have said 'leave everything there and cordon off the apartment'.  He didn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 04:39:52 PM
Actually, I rather doubt the BKA would have any jurisdiction regarding Amaral.

That would be a job for the Portuguese authorities whose record of prosecuting miscreants is rather dire.  So I reckon Amaral may well be safe for quite some time; unless he oversteps the mark again and becomes just too much of an embarrassment.

Yeah, I get the feeling Amaral won't be charged with conspiracy to abduct Maddie anytime either.

But don't hold me to that, it's just a hunch.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2022, 05:32:38 PM
They fingerprint analysed the shutters and inside windows, the thepry the pj were believed to be told was they entered from the outside of window, why leave one window, in pj files it states it was too dark, but no mention of ever coming back, sectioning it off and analysing the outside. Am npt saying thats how it 100 percent happened but its a p*** poor forensic team to not analyse it given the statements.

Following the initial examination you mention, the apartment was locked and guarded by the GNR until 15.30 on 4th May when a Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory in Lisbon arrived to examine the apartment for forensic evidence.

 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 26, 2022, 05:52:25 PM
It's not a matter of simply believing Wolters it's does he have any credibility.  As the spokesman for the investigation and the fact that no one from the investigation.. Including SY and the PJ... Have questioned what he claims.
Then I would say he has a lot of credibility
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on July 26, 2022, 05:56:37 PM
Following the initial examination you mention, the apartment was locked and guarded by the GNR until 15.30 on 4th May when a Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory in Lisbon arrived to examine the apartment for forensic evidence.

5a was treated as a crime scene.  It just doesn't make sense that they allowed the bedding to be taken away.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 06:00:39 PM
It's not a matter of simply believing Wolters it's does he have any credibility.  As the spokesman for the investigation and the fact that no one from the investigation.. Including SY and the PJ... Have questioned what he claims.
Then I would say he has a lot of credibility

Well, that's great, good for you.

Personally, I judge him on results, & at the moment, Brueckner is winning, & will be for the foreseeable future.

But let's see what happens after that, whenever that is, & if he really can deliver the goods, Brueckner doesn't think so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 06:02:31 PM
5a was treated as a crime scene.  It just doesn't make sense that they allowed the bedding to be taken away.

They did find a saliva mark on the other single bed in that room.  So only some of the bedding was checked.  Unfortunately it was the wrong bed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 06:06:13 PM
They did find a saliva mark on the other single bed in that room.  So only some of the bedding was checked.  Unfortunately it was the wrong bed.

Was it?

Maybe Maddie got up after Gerry left the room & went & slept in the other bed?

I mean, she could have done couldn't she, no way to rule it out.

But then saying that, there's no way to be certain Maddie was even in the bedroom at all really, other than because the McCanns said she was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2022, 06:10:52 PM
5a was treated as a crime scene.  It just doesn't make sense that they allowed the bedding to be taken away.

It was indeed and any perceived shortcomings are down to the crime scene team, not to Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 06:14:39 PM
It was indeed and any perceived shortcomings are down to the crime scene team, not to Amaral.

No no, Amaral should have been at the crime scene himself. directing each officer personally & individually, whilst simultaneously tracking Brueckner down, based on the nothing at all to suggest Brueckner was responsible for Madeleine's disappearance that he had firmly in his possession at that time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 06:19:39 PM
Was it?

Maybe Maddie got up after Gerry left the room & went & slept in the other bed?

I mean, she could have done couldn't she, no way to rule it out.

But then saying that, there's no way to be certain Maddie was even in the bedroom at all really, other than because the McCanns said she was.

You don't know much it seems.  It was the saliva from a small boy who had stayed in 5A previously.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 06:23:54 PM
You don't know much it seems.  It was the saliva from a small boy who had stayed in 5A previously.

Well, that's fascinating, I'm forever in your debt for sharing that with me, even though I already knew that, & it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to anything. But other than that, cheers, thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2022, 06:26:31 PM
It was indeed and any perceived shortcomings are down to the crime scene team, not to Amaral.
what’s a co-ordinator’s remit then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 06:28:40 PM
Well, that's fascinating, I'm forever in your debt for sharing that with me, even though I already knew that, & it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to anything. But other than that, cheers, thanks.

So why the silly comment you made previously if you already knew?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 06:31:28 PM
So why the silly comment you made previously if you already knew?

You said they tested the wrong bed.

I pointed out that there's no way of knowing for sure Maddie was even in her bed that night, other than because the McCanns said she was.

I mean, maybe she wasn't, we just have to take their word for it really.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 06:34:45 PM
You said they tested the wrong bed.

I pointed out that there's no way of knowing for sure Maddie was even in her bed that night, other than because the McCanns said she was.

I mean, maybe she wasn't, we just have to take their word for it really.

Because The PJ failed to check the bedding.  If they had done so then they would have known that Madeleine was in that bed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 06:37:04 PM
Because The PJ failed to check the bedding.  If they had done so then they would have known that Madeleine was in that bed.

So she was definitely in her bed that night was she?

How do you know that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 06:43:23 PM
So she was definitely in her bed that night was she?

How do you know that?

I don't need to know that.  But The PJ should have.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 06:49:29 PM
I don't need to know that.  But The PJ should have.

Well, we only have the McCanns word to rely on that Maddie was even in the bedroom that night, don't we.

I mean, even if they had tested her bedding & found her DNA in there, that still wouldn't prove she was in the bed that night, only that she was at some point during the week.

So, the only way to be certain Maddie was in her bed that night is.... because the McCanns said so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 06:59:45 PM
Well, we only have the McCanns word to rely on that Maddie was even in the bedroom that night, don't we.

I mean, even if they had tested her bedding & found her DNA in there, that still wouldn't prove she was in the bed that night, only that she was at some point during the week.

So, the only way to be certain Maddie was in her bed that night is.... because the McCanns said so.

Are you having a problem with this?  It is actually none of you business, but nothing you have to say is going to be of use to anyone.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 26, 2022, 07:02:18 PM
Are you having a problem with this?  It is actually none of you business, but nothing you have to say is going to be of use to anyone.

Another fantastic contribution to the forum.

Thanks for your input, & I mean that most sincerely, because I said so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 26, 2022, 07:06:20 PM
Another fantastic contribution to the forum.

Thanks for your input, & I mean that most sincerely, because I said so.

Thank You.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 26, 2022, 09:44:45 PM
what’s a co-ordinator’s remit then?

To coordinate? I don't know how it works in Portugal, but in the UK the police go in when SOCO have finished and they don't give them instructions.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 26, 2022, 10:10:40 PM
To coordinate? I don't know how it works in Portugal, but in the UK the police go in when SOCO have finished and they don't give them instructions.
To co-ordinate what or who?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 27, 2022, 01:11:28 AM
Well good for you.

Me personally, I'm not convinced Maddie was abducted.

Do you know of any evidence that she actually was, other than, because the McCanns said so & SY said so, & Wolters said so, & Brueckner said so?

Any abduction evidence other than that spring to mind?

Yep, various sightings. 

1)  In Malta 29 sightings !!!   Why is nobody looking at them?  I wonder why?

2)  Then 3 sightings in druggie places:

 - Zinat in the Rif Mountains of Morocco, where half the worlds hemp is/was grown, Madeleine was being carried on the back of a man.   The man is dressed as a woman.   Joana Cipriano appears to be there as well, walking just ahead of the group.

 - Walking around the bank at Molenbeek St John. Brussels.   This is where the hemp from the Rif is processed to change it into various narcotics and then distributed around the world.  Madeleine was accompanied by a 'nanny' who appeared to be Moroccan.   
She was wearing a quality scottish kilt that had the colours of my suspects clan in it.  Also wearing a lovely Arran sweater,   Very Scottish.   Was she being dressed as a child of an important member/ leader of the clan?   Dunno.

 - An American and a British couple sighted Madeleine in Leh, which is on the old trading routes, high up in the Himalayas.   It is also the place where 80% of Indias Hashish enters the country.

I find it very interesting that Madeleine was sighted at three main drug/narcotics centres, but seems that the PJ ignored these sightings.   I wonder why?


And of course, this might link the druggies to Brueckner.   There is a possibility which should be explored.   And that is all there is IMO; just a possibility.  No more.

But why didn't Amaral explore any of these sightings as the main drugs Officer?
Maybe he had left the PJ by then, but even as a retired officer, surely he would have wanted to draw the PJ's Officials attention to the situation ?   Why didn't he?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 27, 2022, 01:21:55 AM
I'm not really sure what people were expecting to find on Maddie's bedclothes?

Unless, perhaps they are thinking maybe the abductor assaulted her in bed, but there were no reports of blood stains. 

I suppose he could have left a semen stain, but then that complicates the Tanner sighting as being the abductor really.

Maddie lay undisturbed when Gerry (claims) to have seen her at 9pm (although, the abductor was already in the apartment then) Gerry spends 10 minutes in the apartment & as he leaves bumps straight into Gez.

Tannerman is seen walking past a few short minutes later, & Maddie is apparently sleeping.

So, I can only conclude the abductor left the wardrobe as soon as Gerry left, hastily made a semen deposit on the bedspread, opened the window & shutters, & climbed out whilst carrying the sleeping Maddie, all within a matter of about 5 mins.

I mean, it's not impossible I suppose.

Soz, but most of that is rubbish as I suspect you know
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 27, 2022, 01:23:49 AM
For what reason, the damage that wasn't ?

Put your thinking cap on barrier.   I know there is a brain in there, somewhere.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 27, 2022, 01:58:03 AM
The abductor didn't enter through the window though.

He must have crept in through the back, because the window wasn't open during Gerry's check.

When he entered the apartment he noticed the bedroom door was further open than he'd previously left it.

https://youtu.be/OZ8jmdWlB8Y?t=745

So, the abductor was already inside the apartment, hiding somewhere.

Unless, maybe, Gerry just didn't notice the window was open when really it was, or perhaps the abductor did come in through the window but then closed it behind himself. Or perhaps the window was open the whole time of Gerry's check, but the wind restrained itself from blowing the curtains open & slamming any doors until Kate went in.

The window was virtually impossible to climb thru for a normal man.  Cill too high.  And very narrow.   From reports Brueckner was like a circus performer at climbing buildings and entering via windows.  Maybe he could have achieved it, but would have left fabric and DNA traces almost without doubt + scratches on the cill + fingerprints.
 
Almost cetrtainly the lifter came in via the very hidden and darkened front door.   This was not double locked but was single locked requiring a key to enter.   Somehow he got hold of a key and entered via the front door JUST USING THE KEY,   No fingers needed.   Is my memory correct in recalling that the porch light wasn't working?

The window was opened as an escape route in emergency and for an accomplice to inform him if anyone was coming.  Also to pass any sleeping aneathetizing drugs through etc.   And to give light to the room without using a torch or room light.  Both of which would illuminate him

I think that the triangular alcove behind the open bedroom door was a more likely hiding place than the wardrobe *if * he indeed hid whilst Gerry was there.  He was a tall bloke and in what looks like a pretty narrow robe the hanging rail would prevent him standing there (in tha wardrobe).   It would also be difficult to pull the wardrobe door closed from inside


Why didn't Amaral think of any of these things?


All the above is just my opinion, but it malkes a damned sight more sense than what you are suggesting.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on July 27, 2022, 02:01:15 AM
It makes no sense because none of it does, who said the window must have been used, it was closed, the shutter was closed, how does a crime scene's officer collect evidence from that which is not used ?

It is clear in the statements that the window and shutters were open; closed later.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 05:01:40 AM
To co-ordinate what or who?

Whatever it was it wasn't SOCO imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 07:27:31 AM
Whatever it was it wasn't SOCO imo.
IMO I find it odd that the co-ordinator of an investigation bears no responsibility whatsoever for evidence collected at the scene of the crime.  So what was the name of the person in charge of that with whom the buck stopped?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 08:15:33 AM
IMO I find it odd that the co-ordinator of an investigation bears no responsibility whatsoever for evidence collected at the scene of the crime.  So what was the name of the person in charge of that with whom the buck stopped?

Even though you don't know what a coordinator does? Still, no point in letting facts interfere with the story.......
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 08:45:44 AM
Even though you don't know what a coordinator does? Still, no point in letting facts interfere with the story.......
tell me the facts then, that’s what I was asking for but seems you don’t know either!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 08:50:50 AM
So the co-ordinator of a major crime investigation has no control or influence over what forensic evidence is gathered at thr scene of a crime.  So even if he’d asked for the bedding to be tested the SOCO would have had the final say on whether or not to test it.  I see, that seems to be very reasonable I’m sure.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2022, 08:52:54 AM

To Coordinate means To Bring Together.  This can't be done without full knowledge of The Facts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 27, 2022, 09:08:30 AM
You suggested corruption, I simply agreed, no swerve here, mate.

It was more of a sarcastic comment for the corruption part. Just cant understandwhy they didnt take prints outside. The point of the corruption part is the mccanns were accussed of being in corruption with almost 6 agencies based in britain. The comment has went way over lol. Its also quite hypocritical when the very own pj have convictions themselves.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on July 27, 2022, 09:17:36 AM
It is clear in the statements that the window and shutters were open; closed later.

Would that be the thrice translated unreliable ones .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on July 27, 2022, 09:19:27 AM
The role of a coordinator will depend on how the role is structured.
I spent several years as a coordinator for a group of scientific departments  in a hospital.  I had no line management responsibilities over what those departments did on a day to day basis and couldn't instruct them to do anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 09:19:46 AM
So the co-ordinator of a major crime investigation has no control or influence over what forensic evidence is gathered at thr scene of a crime.  So even if he’d asked for the bedding to be tested the SOCO would have had the final say on whether or not to test it.  I see, that seems to be very reasonable I’m sure.  @)(++(*

Horses for courses, VS. What additional tests would you suggest should have been performed, by the way?

"A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative.

The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative"
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 27, 2022, 09:21:32 AM
The coordinators job is to take long boozy lunches... Then leak made up stories to the press to accuse  someone of being guilty and pretend youve solved the case. He's not involved or interested in collecting any evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2022, 09:22:54 AM
The coordinators job is to take long boozy lunches... Then leak made up stories to the press to accuse  someone of being guilty and pretend youve solved the case. He's not involved or interested in collecting any evidence

Sorry.  My Bad.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 09:30:12 AM
It was more of a sarcastic comment for the corruption part. Just cant understandwhy they didnt take prints outside. The point of the corruption part is the mccanns were accussed of being in corruption with almost 6 agencies based in britain. The comment has went way over lol. Its also quite hypocritical when the very own pj have convictions themselves.

Where does it say no prints were looked for outside? I think the SOCO people used lights all over 5A;

"A forensic light source is a crime scene investigator’s and lab technician’s tool for enhancing observation, photography and collection of evidence including latent fingerprints, body fluids, hair and fibers, bruises, bite marks, wound patterns, shoe and foot imprints, gun shot residues, drug traces, questioned documents, bone fragment detection, etc. It provides more sensitivity than traditional methods thus increasing the amount of evidence uncovered and the quality of the evidence photographed and collected."
https://www.horiba.com/int/scientific/products/spex-forensics/forensics-products/forensic-light-sources/#:~:text=A%20forensic%20light%20source%20is,shot%20residues%2C%20drug%20traces%2C%20questioned

I expect the bedroom window was examined thoroughly when it was taken out of situ;

(https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2313.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 09:33:13 AM
The role of a coordinator will depend on how the role is structured.
I spent several years as a coordinator for a group of scientific departments  in a hospital.  I had no line management responsibilities over what those departments did on a day to day basis and couldn't instruct them to do anything.
Very relevant I’m sure  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 09:37:59 AM
Horses for courses, VS. What additional tests would you suggest should have been performed, by the way?

"A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative.

The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative"
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
I made no recommendations for additional tests, I merely took issue with your comment that Amaral bore no responsibility whatsoever for evidence collected at the crime scene.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 09:40:39 AM
Whose responsibility was it to gather any relevant CCTV footage from the town?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 09:45:46 AM
I made no recommendations for additional tests, I merely took issue with your comment that Amaral bore no responsibility whatsoever for evidence collected at the crime scene.
The role of a coordinator will depend on how the role is structured.
I spent several years as a coordinator for a group of scientific departments  in a hospital.  I had no line management responsibilities over what those departments did on a day to day basis and couldn't instruct them to do anything.

In my opinion there's not much understanding here of how a coordinator works.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2022, 09:46:28 AM
Did they ever locate all of that undisturbed Lichen on the window sill?  That came from a source from The PJ.  But I can't remember his name now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2022, 09:47:50 AM
In my opinion there's not much understanding here of how a coordinator works.

Least of all from Goncalo Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 27, 2022, 09:50:10 AM
Where does it say no prints were looked for outside? I think the SOCO people used lights all over 5A;

"A forensic light source is a crime scene investigator’s and lab technician’s tool for enhancing observation, photography and collection of evidence including latent fingerprints, body fluids, hair and fibers, bruises, bite marks, wound patterns, shoe and foot imprints, gun shot residues, drug traces, questioned documents, bone fragment detection, etc. It provides more sensitivity than traditional methods thus increasing the amount of evidence uncovered and the quality of the evidence photographed and collected."
https://www.horiba.com/int/scientific/products/spex-forensics/forensics-products/forensic-light-sources/#:~:text=A%20forensic%20light%20source%20is,shot%20residues%2C%20drug%20traces%2C%20questioned

I expect the bedroom window was examined thoroughly when it was taken out of situ;

(https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2313.jpg)

It is in the pj files, they explained it was too dark to take prints on the outside from one of their team, they therefore nevwr mentioned the outside window in report in regards to any prints, even if they were no prints you would expect it to be reported.
Like wonderfulspam said taking peoples word for it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 09:53:09 AM
I made no recommendations for additional tests, I merely took issue with your comment that Amaral bore no responsibility whatsoever for evidence collected at the crime scene.

So Amaral is denigrated for years for 'not having Madeleine's bedding tested', although no-one seems able to suggest what tests were neglected. Neither are they sure whether the police can instruct SOCO personel how to do their jobs. Woolly illogical thinking imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 10:02:48 AM
In my opinion there's not much understanding here of how a coordinator works.
Explain the role then - was it purely administrative rather than investigative?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2022, 10:03:23 AM
So Amaral is denigrated for years for 'not having Madeleine's bedding tested', although no-one seems able to suggest what tests were neglected. Neither are they sure whether the police can instruct SOCO personel how to do their jobs. Woolly illogical thinking imo.

Did The Coordinator get the results?  That is the question.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 10:03:50 AM
It is in the pj files, they explained it was too dark to take prints on the outside from one of their team, they therefore nevwr mentioned the outside window in report in regards to any prints, even if they were no prints you would expect it to be reported.
Like wonderfulspam said taking peoples word for it.

Did you understand that there were two different visits to 5A? The first, by Joao Barreiras did indeed explain that he took prints only from the inside of the window between 1am and 4am on 4th. 5A was then locked up and the specialists from Lisbon arrived at about 3pm on 4th for a more thorough investigation.

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 10:06:06 AM
So Amaral is denigrated for years for 'not having Madeleine's bedding tested', although no-one seems able to suggest what tests were neglected. Neither are they sure whether the police can instruct SOCO personel how to do their jobs. Woolly illogical thinking imo.
Perhaps you can explain where I have been illogical?  I am “only asking questions”, do you have a problem with that?  Here’s another question for you: who was responsible for gathering CCTV footage from the local area?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2022, 10:08:58 AM
Perhaps you can explain where I have been illogical?  I am “only asking questions”, do you have a problem with that?  Here’s another question for you: who was responsible for gathering CCTV footage from the local area?

Amaral found some.  After it had been deleted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 10:22:19 AM
Explain the role then - was it purely administrative rather than investigative?

Perhaps people should stop, think, and research rather than throwing accusations around without knowing if they're justified or not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2022, 10:28:43 AM
Perhaps people should stop, think, and research rather than throwing accusations around without knowing if they're justified or not.

Sound advice.  Perhaps you might try that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 27, 2022, 10:51:06 AM
Did you understand that there were two different visits to 5A? The first, by Joao Barreiras did indeed explain that he took prints only from the inside of the window between 1am and 4am on 4th. 5A was then locked up and the specialists from Lisbon arrived at about 3pm on 4th for a more thorough investigation.

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

It does not state clearly if prints were taken. They just say no seemed force of entry, but why in the files take prints on door knobs inside window etc and not outside, that is amateur at best when it could strengthen the pj claim
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 11:10:56 AM
Perhaps people should stop, think, and research rather than throwing accusations around without knowing if they're justified or not.
Wowsers, the irony is astounding, but thanks for that, it gave me a good laugh.   (&^&
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 11:14:11 AM
So in the name of "on-topic" research, what was Amaral's exact role - was it purely administrative and not investigative, and who was responsible for gathering CCTV in the area, something which Amaral has admitted was not done and was a failing of the investigation?  If not his responsibility then whose? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 27, 2022, 11:16:53 AM
So in the name of "on-topic" research, what was Amaral's exact role - was it purely administrative and not investigative, and who was responsible for gathering CCTV in the area, something which Amaral has admitted was not done and was a failing of the investigation?  If not his responsibility then whose?

Yeah, i heard two things cctv were not working at police station, dont know how true but also the supermarket down from the apartment was on but not recording. That could have solved it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2022, 11:20:08 AM
So in the name of "on-topic" research, what was Amaral's exact role - was it purely administrative and not investigative, and who was responsible for gathering CCTV in the area, something which Amaral has admitted was not done and was a failing of the investigation?  If not his responsibility then whose?

Who was responsible for all of the scraps of paper littering Amaral's desk that hadn't been entered into the computer when he got the sack?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 11:45:53 AM
Who was responsible for all of the scraps of paper littering Amaral's desk that hadn't been entered into the computer when he got the sack?
Well he was only the co-ordinator so maybe the janitor?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 11:52:20 AM
Perhaps people should stop, think, and research rather than throwing accusations around without knowing if they're justified or not.
Do you think Tony Bennett and his so-called Research Group who have slavishly been "researching" this case for years are justified in claiming that the Last Photo was not taken on the 3rd May, and if you do (and I assume you do as I have never once seen you take issue with him or them about it)  perhaps you can explain why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2022, 11:55:17 AM
Well he was only the co-ordinator so maybe the janitor?

Oh well, that's alright then.

Not much of a job being Coordinator, is it.  Hardly worth missing his holiday and upsetting Sofia.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 12:01:23 PM
Oh well, that's alright then.

Not much of a job being Coordinator, is it.  Hardly worth missing his holiday and upsetting Sofia.

Well, the McCanns didn't want to let something as trivial as  taking care of Maddie get in the way of their holiday, so why should anyone else?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 12:05:07 PM

Can someone remind me what time the McCanns actually called the police?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 12:12:09 PM
You, know, after the abduction.
How long was it before either Kate or Gerry whipped out their mobiles & reported this criminal act by a stranger?
I mean, it was probably a matter of seconds wasn't it, given that they were certain Maddie had been abducted & hadn't just wandered off.
So, how long was it again?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 12:13:13 PM
From The Truth of the Lie:

"In Portimão, I meet chief inspector Tavares de Almeida, a member of the team I directed".  He directed the chief inspector, not co-ordinated?!   Shocking!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on July 27, 2022, 01:10:48 PM
You, know, after the abduction.
How long was it before either Kate or Gerry whipped out their mobiles & reported this criminal act by a stranger?
I mean, it was probably a matter of seconds wasn't it, given that they were certain Maddie had been abducted & hadn't just wandered off.
So, how long was it again?

It was recorded by them i think matt went around 10.10pm, they had to ask again amd call was located at 10.41pm a think. Remmeber the mccanns did not speak portuguese. So why would they call them. 40 minutes is not a long time if it was 40 minutes for call to have been logged tht could mean end of call from waiting time to time that someone actually called. A lot pf countries it takes 48 hrs to make sure some one is reported missing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on July 27, 2022, 01:19:41 PM
It was recorded by them i think matt went around 10.10pm, they had to ask again amd call was located at 10.41pm a think. Remmeber the mccanns did not speak portuguese. So why would they call them. 40 minutes is not a long time if it was 40 minutes for call to have been logged tht could mean end of call from waiting time to time that someone actually called. A lot pf countries it takes 48 hrs to make sure some one is reported missing.

You are quite correct.  Spammy is just up to his usual tricks, which in fact are of no importance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 01:51:11 PM
You are quite correct.  Spammy is just up to his usual tricks, which in fact are of no importance.
I wish people would stop feeding him, I really do. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2022, 03:07:06 PM
It was recorded by them i think matt went around 10.10pm, they had to ask again amd call was located at 10.41pm a think. Remmeber the mccanns did not speak portuguese. So why would they call them. 40 minutes is not a long time if it was 40 minutes for call to have been logged tht could mean end of call from waiting time to time that someone actually called. A lot pf countries it takes 48 hrs to make sure some one is reported missing.

I don't think it is worth spending any more thought on the disastrous mistakes Amaral and the PJ presided over in 2007.

What's done is done and cannot be undone.

Here and now in 2022 Amaral and his cohorts remain tremendously keen on the groundhog scenario he has lived off for fifteen+ years and they have vented their spleen on for fifteen+ years. 
Amaral even re-emerging into the public domain with his lies about Brueckner and his lies about the McCanns just to make sure it all stays on message.  Just as he always intended it to.

I think that displays nothing more than sheer desperation to deflect attention from the direction in which the evidence has led the present day German investigation.  Right to Brueckner's door.

Only difference being that when he didn't answer they didn't ignore him as the PJ did in 2007. 
They followed him to Italy and - metaphorically speaking - burst his door down with the help of the Italian police and gave him a new door in a high security German prison, rent free just as he likes it.

The notion that a Luz based named criminal with the profile and the matching necessary skills has emerged must have set shockwaves of horror among those who have ill wished Madeleine and her family for all those years.

There is a kid on the block who was around in 2007.
There are those who have denied any such possibility then and since then.  But I think they are going to have to acknowledge it now - so no wonder they find ground hogging it so comforting.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 04:00:46 PM
Who was responsible for all of the scraps of paper littering Amaral's desk that hadn't been entered into the computer when he got the sack?

Fact or rumour?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 04:09:34 PM
Yeah, i heard two things cctv were not working at police station, dont know how true but also the supermarket down from the apartment was on but not recording. That could have solved it

You seem happy to repeat every rumour you've 'heard' as if it were true. How about some cites showing where this nonsense comes from? What police station?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 04:35:03 PM
It was recorded by them i think matt went around 10.10pm, they had to ask again amd call was located at 10.41pm a think. Remmeber the mccanns did not speak portuguese. So why would they call them. 40 minutes is not a long time if it was 40 minutes for call to have been logged tht could mean end of call from waiting time to time that someone actually called. A lot pf countries it takes 48 hrs to make sure some one is reported missing.

40 minutes not a long Time?
Well that's almost the entire golden hour wasted.
You mean neither Kate nor Gerry saw to it swiftly & with a sense of urgency that Madeleine's Abduction be reported to the Police?
I find that rather surprising.
I mean if I were them & my daughter had just been abducted I'd see to it that the emergency services were called immediately.
Oh well, not much point blaming Amaral then really, I mean, by the time the McCanns actually requested the services of the pj Brueckner could have been over an hour away by then.
Oh well, nevermind, Maddie's dead anyway so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 04:38:30 PM
I wish people would stop feeding him, I really do.

Well, people could stop talking rubbish & then that wouldn't give me the opportunity.
We could all just sit tight & wait patiently & peacefully for Wolters to reveal the concrete evidence I suppose. I mean, I doubt it's much longer now aye.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 05:43:30 PM
Fact or rumour?
Reportage, from the Times newspaper.

However, Mr Ribeiro said that a new team of officers had now started a full review of the investigation after Chief Inspector Gonçalo Amaral, the previous head, was demoted for criticising the British police for being too close to Madeleine’s parents. “We are going to start a new phase in the investigation and we will review what we already have, not to criticise or judge what has been done but to try to decipher signals and events we might have not deciphered at the time when they did happen,” he said. The new team is reported to have criticised the previous operation, claiming that they have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around the police headquarters in Portimão on scraps of paper and following up leads ignored by the earlier team. A Portuguese police source told Expresso newspaper: “There was important material lying all over the place that hadn’t been considered by investigators. A lot of key information was discarded. The whole process is being reviewed. Putting the papers in order has been a massive task.”
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 05:53:50 PM
Reportage, from the Times newspaper.

However, Mr Ribeiro said that a new team of officers had now started a full review of the investigation after Chief Inspector Gonçalo Amaral, the previous head, was demoted for criticising the British police for being too close to Madeleine’s parents. “We are going to start a new phase in the investigation and we will review what we already have, not to criticise or judge what has been done but to try to decipher signals and events we might have not deciphered at the time when they did happen,” he said. The new team is reported to have criticised the previous operation, claiming that they have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around the police headquarters in Portimão on scraps of paper and following up leads ignored by the earlier team. A Portuguese police source told Expresso newspaper: “There was important material lying all over the place that hadn’t been considered by investigators. A lot of key information was discarded. The whole process is being reviewed. Putting the papers in order has been a massive task.”

A police source? OK, thst sounds reliable.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 06:36:11 PM
A police source? OK, thst sounds reliable.
Indeed it does.   Of course, you will choose to regard it as made up, no doubt by Team McCann which is your prerogative but it seems pretty evident from Rebelo’s carefully chosen words that there was a bit of a mess to clear up when he took over. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 06:37:05 PM
40 minutes not a long Time?
Well that's almost the entire golden hour wasted.
You mean neither Kate nor Gerry saw to it swiftly & with a sense of urgency that Madeleine's Abduction be reported to the Police?
I find that rather surprising.
I mean if I were them & my daughter had just been abducted I'd see to it that the emergency services were called immediately.
Oh well, not much point blaming Amaral then really, I mean, by the time the McCanns actually requested the services of the pj Brueckner could have been over an hour away by then.
Oh well, nevermind, Maddie's dead anyway so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Whose idea was it to ring the police anyway? Gerry's? Matthew thought it was Fiona's.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 06:59:10 PM
Whose idea was it to ring the police anyway? Gerry's? Matthew thought it was Fiona's.

Yes, it appears that, rather than franticly pleading with a Portuguese speaker to whip out their phone & report Madeleine's abduction to the authorities immediately, Kate & Gerry were busy doing something else for the best part of the golden hour.

Oh well, never mind, Maddie was probably dead before the police had a chance to even get to 5a, so I suppose it doesn't matter really. I mean, Kate even thought she was already dead that night or maybe hiding inside a big dumpster type bin for some reason.

It's a bit rich blaming the PJ for anything really when you're not even going to bother reporting Madeleine's abduction to them in the first place.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 07:06:24 PM

Seriously, what were they doing for 40 minutes?

I mean, we know what they weren't doing, they weren't picking up their phones & trying to call the police or demanding anyone else did on their behalf.

They weren't doing that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 07:39:47 PM
Did the police cite this supposed massive delay in calling them as grounds for suspicion at all? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 07:42:05 PM
Whose idea was it to ring the police anyway? Gerry's? Matthew thought it was Fiona's.
What time did Kate raise the alarm again?  You thought it was most likely 9.20pm so that’s actually closer to 100 minutes they waited before getting the police involved, why aren’t you correcting the trolll?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 07:56:13 PM
What time did Kate raise the alarm again?  You thought it was most likely 9.20pm so that’s actually closer to 100 minutes they waited before getting the police involved, why aren’t you correcting the trolll?

Well, there's simply no way to be absolutely certain of any specific time really is there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 07:57:37 PM
Did the police cite this supposed massive delay in calling them as grounds for suspicion at all?

Well, perhaps they should have done.

It does seem rather suspicious really doesn't it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 08:05:32 PM
Well, perhaps they should have done.

It does seem rather suspicious really doesn't it.

I mean, bearing in mind Kate & Gerry were both immediately certain she'd been abducted because the window was open & it was impossible for her to have opened it herself.

It seems strange they let people wander around looking for Maddie as if she'd left of her own accord, rather than insisting someone call the police immediately & report the abduction.

Oh well, I'm probably worrying about nothing.

Maybe it's standard practice to just leave it the best part of an hour before reporting child abductions.

I mean, I wouldn't know, none of my children have ever been abducted, & there's no way to be certain Maddie ever was either really.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2022, 08:57:41 PM
What time did Kate raise the alarm again?  You thought it was most likely 9.20pm so that’s actually closer to 100 minutes they waited before getting the police involved, why aren’t you correcting the trolll?

I don't know what time Kate McCann raised the alarm. Looking at a variety of statements suggests that it wasn't at exactly 10pm, despite that time having become a 'fact' due to frequent repitition (imo).
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 09:00:54 PM
I don't know what time Kate McCann raised the alarm. Looking at a variety of statements suggests that it wasn't at exactly 10pm, despite that time having become a 'fact' due to frequent repitition (imo).
So you don’t know how long it was between the alarm being raised and the police being called.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 27, 2022, 09:05:45 PM
This witness had no reason to lie.  Could we take it as proof that the alarm had not yet been raised a minute or so before 10pm? 

M. M. M. d. S. declares that on the night 03-05-07, she left the apartment at around 21H58 - she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time and she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge;

. They left the building and the deponent and her boyfriend took the Opel Frontera, previously indicated, which was parked out front of the apartment, in the private parking area of Block 6 where her friend's apartment was located;

. She declares that the night was good with a breeze, and that it was dark;

. After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;

She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn't yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;

. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;

. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 09:09:39 PM
This witness had no reason to lie.  Could we take it as proof that the alarm had not yet been raised a minute or so before 10pm? 

M. M. M. d. S. declares that on the night 03-05-07, she left the apartment at around 21H58 - she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time and she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge;

. They left the building and the deponent and her boyfriend took the Opel Frontera, previously indicated, which was parked out front of the apartment, in the private parking area of Block 6 where her friend's apartment was located;

. She declares that the night was good with a breeze, and that it was dark;

. After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;

She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn't yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;

. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;

. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;

Not really, I mean, we just have to take her word for it really don't we. She could have been mistaken, simply no way to be certain really is there. The time on her friends phone might not have been precisely matched to GMT, I mean that's possible isn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 27, 2022, 09:22:55 PM
She looked at the front of the apartment, towards a car close to the window, so she saw the window.

She doesn't mention seeing the shutter & window being open though, maybe she just didn't notice, or maybe it just wasn't open.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2022, 10:09:26 PM

               A reminder, just in case anyone is interested - the thread topic is Goncalo Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 09, 2022, 02:04:18 PM
Judite de Sousa interviews Goncalo Amaral

JS: In your opinion what causes Scotland Yard to, suddenly, ask the Judiciary Police to re-open the process and to categorically state that there are 195 new opportunities to investigate?

GA: Well, we have to understand the timing, understand the moment...
Yesterday was the 25 of April
It's important because it's the day freedom and democracy is celebrated in Portugal, and a foreign power, or someone from a foreign power is telling us:
"It's like this, reopen it!".

It's important.
We are a few days away of the sad anniversary of the child's disappearance, a tragic moment...

We are one year after that team started their investigation, where they've spent millions of pounds; they have been questioned back in England about that.

To say that they have 195 opportunities of investigation - I have to ask, why is that?

Why do they still have 195, why don't they have only 5?


Probably the beginning of the end for Amaral's thesis.  He certainly doesn't appear to have been too keen on the new investigation being started by Scotland Yard; nor was he averse to adding a little pinch of xenophobia to the mix.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 09, 2022, 02:41:07 PM

I don't understand Amaral at all.  He is either very stupid or much too clever for his own good.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 09, 2022, 03:26:49 PM
I don't understand Amaral at all.  He is either very stupid or much too clever for his own good.

Some seem to have considered him a genius.  My opinion is that there must be very few left who haven't seen the light when consideration is given to the new direction of Madeleine's case, against which Amaral campaigned so viciously and so long - eventually leaving himself now backed into a corner.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 09, 2022, 03:58:21 PM
Some seem to have considered him a genius.  My opinion is that there must be very few left who haven't seen the light when consideration is given to the new direction of Madeleine's case, against which Amaral campaigned so viciously and so long - eventually leaving himself now backed into a corner.

Imagine what might be happening now if that video of Brueckner with very short hair hadn't appeared.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2022, 04:40:50 PM
The problem Amaral and others have is that if you believe thst the two dogs are thr best in the world...have never been wrong and that Grime was sought out by the FBI then.Maddie died in the apartment..the parents covered it up.and CB cannot be guilty..I do think Grime should have made things clearer but he wanted to promote his dogs abilities
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 09, 2022, 05:13:44 PM
Imagine what might be happening now if that video of Brueckner with very short hair hadn't appeared.

I know exactly what would have been happening for the simple reason I have become so used to witnessing the Amaral led propaganda in action.

It all started right at the very beginning and drove every single disastrous procedural error and web of lies throughout with not one single exception.

I used to think the lies about "swingers" and "Mrs Fenn's hairdresser" were the pits. 
But these were actually very small beer in comparison to the admission that Brueckner was initially on the police radar.

Was Amaral too busy setting his "abduction denial" scenario in place to actually bother with the inconvenient reality that there were one or two candidates whose phones had pinged probably the same antennae the McCanns' did?
He checked the McCann and Murat phone traffic to the nth degree.  Such a pity it had to wait for Scotland Yard to check everyone else's in 2014 to eliminate them from the inquiry.
Worth noting that Brueckner whose phone also pinged has not been eliminated but is still not only a person of interest but chief suspect.

How could Amaral have got it all so catastrophically wrong?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 09, 2022, 05:30:45 PM
Some seem to have considered him a genius.  My opinion is that there must be very few left who haven't seen the light when consideration is given to the new direction of Madeleine's case, against which Amaral campaigned so viciously and so long - eventually leaving himself now backed into a corner.

Much going on in that direction is there?

Having much luck are they?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 09, 2022, 05:45:34 PM
The problem Amaral and others have is that if you believe thst the two dogs are thr best in the world...have never been wrong and that Grime was sought out by the FBI then.Maddie died in the apartment..the parents covered it up.and CB cannot be guilty..I do think Grime should have made things clearer but he wanted to promote his dogs abilities

I think the problem Amaral has is that like his followers he just has been unable to get over the notion that time moved on (particularly in Portugal) from the interim report which contains and displays all the mismanagement and disastrous errors of the initial investigation chapter and verse.  The dogs being the main plank displaying his ineptitude. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2022, 12:16:46 AM
Gonçalo Amaral destroys German investigation into Maddie case: "It is the almost perfect suspect. It would only be perfect if he were dead."
In an interview yesterday in the 'Journal of Eight', the former inspector of the Judicial Police who investigated Maddie's case, dismantled the German police theory that the German Christian Brueckner would have killed the girl.
June 22, 2020
Gonçalo Amaral, the former inspector of the Judicial Police who investigated maddie's disappearance yesterday argued that the German Christian Brueckner is nothing more than a "scapegoat" to find an explanation for what happened on the beach of Luz in the summer of 2007.
For the former inspector, it was necessary to find "a figure that by the profile fit to take the blame". He added: "It doesn't matter who the pedophile is. What we have been watching over the years is that pedophiles are appearing, it is necessary a figure that by profile, by proximity, that fits to take the blame".

To prove that something "does not fit" in this new investigation carried out by the German police, Gonçalo Amaral showed new images of the German's van in which they could see several "graffiti" drawings that personalized it. "Do you think a vehicle like this went unnoticed?" he asked. "You have to know why they changed the images of the campervan."

For the former inspector, Christian Brueckner, currently detained, is the almost perfect suspect.
"All he needs is one thing to be perfect, which is to be dead," he concluded, recalling that, according to the investigation he made public in his book that was the target of a precautionary provision by the McCann, "The kidnapping theory is the one that has the least evidence," recalling that the McCann's friends left Portugal without being properly questioned. Like the girl's own parents.
https://www.flash.pt/celebridades/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-arrasa-investigacao-alema-sobre-caso-maddie-e-o-suspeito-quase-perfeito-so-seria-perfeito-se-estivesse-morto


Why does Amaral harbour such a pathological hatred for Madeleine McCann's parents?  I think it must rank as the most unbalanced behaviour on record and designed only to persecute.  Why has it been condoned for so long and his unworkable thesis treated by some as though it was Holy Writ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2022, 12:46:28 AM
This is far from over! Sandra Felgueiras returns to raze Gonçalo Amaral
While the Maddie case continues to make headlines around the world, the controversy rekindles with the journalist harshly criticising the former Inspector of the Judicial Police.
July 7, 2020

Sandra Felgueiras returned to the Algarve and Praia da Luz, from where Madeleine McCann disappeared in 2007 never to be seen again.
This time, the journalist followed the theory of the German police that advances that girl will have been kidnapped by the German Christian Brueckner.

"Investigating the truth implies humility.

Open-mindedness.

Fault recognition.

Gonçalo Amaral's thesis on the Madeleine case had irreparable flaws, and so, just for that, it was not even turned into a public accusation," wrote the RTP journalist in a long text shared on her Facebook profile.

And she harshly accused:
"But then came the public pressure.

The books.

Theses.

Sell the story.

And the desire to crucify the parents impelled many people to want to believe in a thesis even when the incongruities were too much condemned the case to absolute failure."

"I've been investigating the Madeleine case for 13 years. Unprejudiced.

No theses.

I've interviewed the McCanns several times.

I'm the one who asked them how they justified the smell of a corpse in the apartment and the car and the blood found by the English dogs?

Yes, I did. How public it is," she recalled.

Then she spoke of the German who is detained in Germany, but who lived for many years in the Algarve:

"I have never seen a suspect like Bruckner:
with so much evidence that would put him in the place of crime

at the time of the crime

with a past that allows us to guess, but not prove, what he may have done.

He's not the perfect suspect. He's a paedophile and he's been with us for 22 years.

In the same years that Rui Pedro, Joana and Madeleine disappeared."

"To all who prefer to believe what they have always believed without knowing why, or simply because they did not like the McCann and blame them for leaving their children alone, I ask you: get rid of prejudices.
The McCanns will always live with the guilt.

But we can't say more.

Not with the evidence we have," wrote the journalist from the public station.
https://www.flash.pt/celebridades/nacional/detalhe/isto-esta-longe-de-acabar-sandra-felgueiras-volta-a-arrasar-o-goncalo-amaral

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2022, 09:12:20 AM

Why has Portugal done nothing about Amaral's attempts to interfere with the course of justice?  Are they unable to shut him up?  Or perhaps they don't want to.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2022, 11:01:41 AM
Why has Portugal done nothing about Amaral's attempts to interfere with the course of justice?  Are they unable to shut him up?  Or perhaps they don't want to.
It’s his freadom of speach innit.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2022, 11:08:43 AM
It’s his freadom of speach innit.

What Amaral has been doing isn't Freedom of Speech.  It's Breaking the Law.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 10, 2022, 11:56:18 AM
What Amaral has been doing isn't Freedom of Speech.  It's Breaking the Law.

Is that a real law or an imaginary one?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2022, 12:20:15 PM
Is that a real law or an imaginary one?

Obviously an imaginary one in Portugal.  However, this seems to depend on who's In Charge.

Who made Brueckner an Arguido and why could be helpful.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2022, 12:48:14 PM
Why has Portugal done nothing about Amaral's attempts to interfere with the course of justice?  Are they unable to shut him up?  Or perhaps they don't want to.

He always had the fall back position of ineptitude to rely on when his business was the persecution of the McCanns in combination with assuring that the majority in Portugal weren't actively looking for the missing Madeleine as a result of his hatchet job.

I'm not too sure if the system post Dutroux in Belgium answered all the questions.  Perhaps there is a similar doubt regarding Portugal post Amaral.

I think that may be revealed by Germany in the fulness of time when they have dealt with the business in hand regarding other derelictions of Portuguese justice.

I think there was always the question hanging over Amaral whether incompetent v corruption.  If anyone bothers to ask for an explanation regarding the lies he told about Brueckner we may be somewhere on the path of finding out which one it always was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2022, 01:01:31 PM
He always had the fall back position of ineptitude to rely on when his business was the persecution of the McCanns in combination with assuring that the majority in Portugal weren't actively looking for the missing Madeleine as a result of his hatchet job.

I'm not too sure if the system post Dutroux in Belgium answered all the questions.  Perhaps there is a similar doubt regarding Portugal post Amaral.

I think that may be revealed by Germany in the fulness of time when they have dealt with the business in hand regarding other derelictions of Portuguese justice.

I think there was always the question hanging over Amaral whether incompetent v corruption.  If anyone bothers to ask for an explanation regarding the lies he told about Brueckner we may be somewhere on the path of finding out which one it always was.

I don't want to believe that Amaral is actually corrupt.  I have long believed that he was a victim of his upbringing during The Salazar Era, although I might have some difficulty in explaining that.

It seems to have been Pick a Suspect and then nail them.  Could this be for why Amaral made so many mistakes?

The World has moved on, but apparently not in Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2022, 01:12:26 PM
Obviously an imaginary one in Portugal.  However, this seems to depend on who's In Charge.

Who made Brueckner an Arguido and why could be helpful.

The German Christian Brueckner was accused by the District of Faro of the Public Prosecutor's Office in the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, in 2007, on the beach of Luz, in the Algarve.‎

The JN knows that the constitution of the accused was fundamental for the investigation to continue, since the inquiry would prescribe next May, when it is 15 years after the child's disappearance.‎

‎"The defendant was constituted by the German authorities in execution of a request for international judicial cooperation issued by the Public Prosecutor's Office of Portugal," it reads in a statement released by the Public Prosecutor's Office.‎

‎The investigation is directed by the Portimão section of the Faro Investigation and Prosecution Department with the assistof the Judicial Police.‎

‎The investigation has been developed in cooperation with the English and German authorities.‎

https://www.jn.pt/justica/christian-bruckner-constituido-arguido-pelo-desaparecimento-de-maddie-14789970.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 10, 2022, 01:21:49 PM
Obviously an imaginary one in Portugal.  However, this seems to depend on who's In Charge.

Who made Brueckner an Arguido and why could be helpful.

Imaginary in your opinion, imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2022, 01:28:36 PM
I don't want to believe that Amaral is actually corrupt.  I have long believed that he was a victim of his upbringing during The Salazar Era, although I might have some difficulty in explaining that.

It seems to have been Pick a Suspect and then nail them.  Could this be for why Amaral made so many mistakes?

The World has moved on, but apparently not in Portugal.

I'm a bit more hopeful that despite the unrelenting years of propaganda most of the Portuguese media have been stuffing the heads of their viewers - listeners - readers with, that a bit of reality is beginning to break through.

I think there is a marked change of tone in the reporting.  I think there is an absence from the airwaves of Amaral and his cronies.  Of course we will never know what goes on behind the scenes.

As far as my opinion regarding Amaral goes - I simply cannot believe that anyone can be a stupid as he has been and still function.   If he is, the fault must lie with the organisations who have employed him and used him since 2007 and the people who have believed him implicitly despite no supporting evidence at all or a conspicuous surfeit of evidence to the contrary of his many varied theses.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2022, 01:31:32 PM
Imaginary in your opinion, imo.

Please desist from the deflection of saying nothing but tring to pick a fight - and stay on topic.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 10, 2022, 02:14:14 PM
Please desist from the deflection of saying nothing but tring to pick a fight - and stay on topic.


Well,  IMO -  isn't that the reason you decided to post on the GA thread B.

Also a least GA was involved from day one with his thesis. [he knows more than anyone]

Not like wolt going on hearsay [dubious at that]

But... there have been so many false trails in the case before - clues, sightings and suspects that led nowhere.

Three years ago, during the last major police appeal, Scotland Yard said it was working on one final "critical" line of inquiry.

Now, we're told there's another one. That may explain why Met detectives - who've been involved in the case for nine years - are being rather more cautious than their German counterparts
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2022, 02:28:32 PM

Well,  IMO -  isn't that the reason you decided to post on the GA thread B.

Also a least GA was involved from day one with his thesis. [he knows more than anyone]

Not like wolt going on hearsay [dubious at that]

But... there have been so many false trails in the case before - clues, sightings and suspects that led nowhere.

Three years ago, during the last major police appeal, Scotland Yard said it was working on one final "critical" line of inquiry.

Now, we're told there's another one. That may explain why Met detectives - who've been involved in the case for nine years - are being rather more cautious than their German counterparts


Typical sceptic response which is reiterated ad nauseam throughout - "Also a least GA was involved from day one with his thesis. [he knows more than anyone]"

Amaral demonstrates that he knows nothing and your opinion that he was there "with his thesis ... from day one" is precisely why he knows nothing.

Amaral wasn't there to work on his thesis.

Amaral was there to attempt to solve the disappearance of a missing three year old child.  Hopefully to find her, or at the least to find out what happened to her. 
Amaral failed miserably with that resulting in him being sacked for mouthing off on the record regarding one of his many failed theses.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2022, 02:29:40 PM
I'm a bit more hopeful that despite the unrelenting years of propaganda most of the Portuguese media have been stuffing the heads of their viewers - listeners - readers with, that a bit of reality is beginning to break through.

I think there is a marked change of tone in the reporting.  I think there is an absence from the airwaves of Amaral and his cronies.  Of course we will never know what goes on behind the scenes.

As far as my opinion regarding Amaral goes - I simply cannot believe that anyone can be a stupid as he has been and still function.   If he is, the fault must lie with the organisations who have employed him and used him since 2007 and the people who have believed him implicitly despite no supporting evidence at all or a conspicuous surfeit of evidence to the contrary of his many varied theses.

Something went very wrong somewhere, if it was ever right in the first place, which I somewhat doubt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2022, 02:46:07 PM

Well,  IMO -  isn't that the reason you decided to post on the GA thread B.

Also a least GA was involved from day one with his thesis. [he knows more than anyone]

Not like wolt going on hearsay [dubious at that]

But... there have been so many false trails in the case before - clues, sightings and suspects that led nowhere.

Three years ago, during the last major police appeal, Scotland Yard said it was working on one final "critical" line of inquiry.

Now, we're told there's another one. That may explain why Met detectives - who've been involved in the case for nine years - are being rather more cautious than their German counterparts


Not like wolt going on hearsay [dubious at that]

But... there have been so many false trails in the case before - clues, sightings and suspects that led nowhere.


Amaral started the ball rolling with three suspects against whom there was not a shred of evidence against any.

The problem with Amaral and his followers is that you have all come to a screeching halt at that groundhog date when they were all cleared of their arguido status.

Despite Amaral's latest lies which tried to destroy the German investigation into Christian Brueckner ~ the rest of the world has kept on turning and in particular the German prosecutor continues to do the job left to him by the Portuguese who are either incapable of investigating crimes against women and children - or who simply cannot be bothered.

By the way ... is it appropriate to refer to the prosecutor as "wolt"?  That is not his name.  No-ne refers to Amaral as G*** do they?  Time to show just a little civility and respect I think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2022, 02:54:20 PM

Well,  IMO -  isn't that the reason you decided to post on the GA thread B.

Also a least GA was involved from day one with his thesis. [he knows more than anyone]

Not like wolt going on hearsay [dubious at that]

But... there have been so many false trails in the case before - clues, sightings and suspects that led nowhere.

Three years ago, during the last major police appeal, Scotland Yard said it was working on one final "critical" line of inquiry.

Now, we're told there's another one. That may explain why Met detectives - who've been involved in the case for nine years - are being rather more cautious than their German counterparts


Amaral does not know more than anyone...he doesnt know the German evidence.

he thinks the dogs have a 100% record and have solved 200 cases....the mans a total fool
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 10, 2022, 02:55:02 PM

Well,  IMO -  isn't that the reason you decided to post on the GA thread B.

Also a least GA was involved from day one with his thesis. [he knows more than anyone]

Not like wolt going on hearsay [dubious at that]

But... there have been so many false trails in the case before - clues, sightings and suspects that led nowhere.

Three years ago, during the last major police appeal, Scotland Yard said it was working on one final "critical" line of inquiry.

Now, we're told there's another one. That may explain why Met detectives - who've been involved in the case for nine years - are being rather more cautious than their German counterparts


With reference to Amaral - sceptics - and groundhog day
"
Three years ago, during the last major police appeal, Scotland Yard said it was working on one final "critical" line of inquiry.

Now, we're told there's another one. That may explain why Met detectives - who've been involved in the case for nine years - are being rather more cautious than their German counterparts
"

That is so obvious that it doesn't merit a response!

THINK ABOUT IT VERY CAREFULLY and if you have difficulty get back to me and I'll explain exactly how ill informed you are with that one in particular.

Suffice to say 👀 Ouch!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 10, 2022, 03:13:12 PM
Amaral does not know more than anyone...he doesnt know the German evidence.

he thinks the dogs have a 100% record and have solved 200 cases....the mans a total fool

But Amaral wanted to believe this rubbish because it suited him and his mindset.

My thoughts on Martin Grime are unprintable.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 10, 2022, 03:13:42 PM
Why has Portugal done nothing about Amaral's attempts to interfere with the course of justice?  Are they unable to shut him up?  Or perhaps they don't want to.

Perhaps they don't want to    8@??)(

Why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 10, 2022, 03:29:47 PM
Welcome back Kizzy.

You have had a really rough time.   Hope that things are running easier for you.


(((((HUGS)))))  Love, sadie Xxx




And now we can get back to arguing again @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 10, 2022, 03:52:15 PM
Hi Kizzy, sorry to hear you’ve had a rough time, and yes, welcome back!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 10, 2022, 05:50:28 PM
Not like wolt going on hearsay [dubious at that]

But... there have been so many false trails in the case before - clues, sightings and suspects that led nowhere.


Amaral started the ball rolling with three suspects against whom there was not a shred of evidence against any.

The problem with Amaral and his followers is that you have all come to a screeching halt at that groundhog date when they were all cleared of their arguido status.

Despite Amaral's latest lies which tried to destroy the German investigation into Christian Brueckner ~ the rest of the world has kept on turning and in particular the German prosecutor continues to do the job left to him by the Portuguese who are either incapable of investigating crimes against women and children - or who simply cannot be bothered.

By the way ... is it appropriate to refer to the prosecutor as "wolt"?  That is not his name.  No-ne refers to Amaral as G*** do they?  Time to show just a little civility and respect I think.


By the way ... is it appropriate to refer to the prosecutor as "wolt"?  That is not his name.  No-ne refers to Amaral as G*** do they?  Time to show just a little civility and respect I think.



Awww there you go..... you succeeded.

If I want to call him walt I will...[at least it isn't wally].

As for what you call GA is of no concern to me.

Seems to upset you though what the german prosecutor is called who by the way I have no respect for.

He is no further on than what he thinks happened to  you think GA is backed in a corner think its more like him.

IMO had a dream....that ended up a nightmare.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 10, 2022, 07:07:52 PM
Hi Kizzy, sorry to hear you’ve had a rough time, and yes, welcome back!
A return that's guaranteed to make your vertigo swirl... https://streamable.com/kuzhvd (https://streamable.com/kuzhvd)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 10, 2022, 07:10:39 PM

By the way ... is it appropriate to refer to the prosecutor as "wolt"?  That is not his name.  No-ne refers to Amaral as G*** do they?  Time to show just a little civility and respect I think.



Awww there you go..... you succeeded.

If I want to call him walt I will...[at least it isn't wally].

As for what you call GA is of no concern to me.

Seems to upset you though what the german prosecutor is called who by the way I have no respect for.

He is no further on than what he thinks happened to  you think GA is backed in a corner think its more like him.

IMO had a dream....that ended up a nightmare.

I think it's clear Wolters has solved the case....Amaral clearly did not understand the evidence...anyone who believed his rubbish is going to look very foolish when the truth comes ..let's see how gets on with the Behan case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 11, 2022, 02:07:27 PM
I think it's clear Wolters has solved the case....Amaral clearly did not understand the evidence...anyone who believed his rubbish is going to look very foolish when the truth comes ..let's see how gets on with the Behan case

Yes, well what "you think" is neither here nor there - after all your only a poster on a forum where can spout your beliefs or ino propaganda on who you believe is responsible.

Just like me - whereas I believe G A was on the right track on who was responsible.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2022, 02:17:37 PM

Amaral has a history of being dishonest.  The McCanns don't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 11, 2022, 02:42:03 PM
Amaral has a history of being dishonest.  The McCanns don't.

Well we don't really know that for sure, not much is allowed out about them.

I wouldn't put money on them never doing anything dishonest. [seems thats all Im allowed to say]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 11, 2022, 02:48:03 PM
Typical sceptic response which is reiterated ad nauseam throughout - "Also a least GA was involved from day one with his thesis. [he knows more than anyone]"

Amaral demonstrates that he knows nothing and your opinion that he was there "with his thesis ... from day one" is precisely why he knows nothing.

Amaral wasn't there to work on his thesis.

Amaral was there to attempt to solve the disappearance of a missing three year old child.  Hopefully to find her, or at the least to find out what happened to her. 
Amaral failed miserably with that resulting in him being sacked for mouthing off on the record regarding one of his many failed theses.


Amaral was there to attempt to solve the disappearance of a missing three year old child.  Hopefully to find her, or at the least to find out what happened to her.


Well, he could have probably done that if it wasn't for all the UK interference and GA himself wrapping the mccs in cotton wool because he had to.

All these years later and he has never changed his mind that the mccs were involved.

He has never been proved wrong has he.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2022, 02:51:08 PM
Well we don't really know that for sure, not much is allowed out about them.

I wouldn't put money on them never doing anything dishonest. [seems thats all Im allowed to say]

Amaral's dishonesty is documented while not a word has ever been found about The McCanns, not even from the many people who know them.  Very odd after Fifteen Years.  Probably because there is none.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 11, 2022, 03:07:09 PM
Yes, well what "you think" is neither here nor there - after all your only a poster on a forum where can spout your beliefs or ino propaganda on who you believe is responsible.

Just like me - whereas I believe G A was on the right track on who was responsible.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and I think there is sufficient evidence to suggest that Amaral suffers from some recognisable complex that condemns him to spout nonsense every time he opens his mouth to pontificate.

He may not be small in physical stature but his beliefs mark him as being a very small man indeed condemned forever never to move on from his sacking from the terrible mess made of Madeleine's case in 2007 throughout his watch as coordinator.

Judite de Sousa interviews Amaral asking who was responsible for the failure of the Madeleine investigation.

JS: ... she could be alive.

GA: Or could be dead. Don't forget the "could be dead". It's about 50% chances. And that is the real sadness. It's been five years and we still do not know what happened to this child and it is our fault. It's ours!

JS: Ours? Of whom?

GA: Of our Justice system, of our Attorney General who allowed this investigation to be shelved.
In September 2007 we had reached certain conclusions, they were interim conclusions, and a criminal investigation needs to be concluded.

It needs to be finished.

The investigation was never allowed to arrive at an end.

It was important to understand if the conclusions we had arrived at then could, in the end, be proved or disproved, be or not different - that is how a proper criminal investigation should proceed.

JS: Why, in your opinion, did the Portuguese General Attorney's Office decided to archive the process?

GA: Because we are Portuguese and they are English - as simple as that.

We are small and they are big.

This is what is happening right now.

JS: Then, do you defend the thesis that there were political pressures?

GA: There are no doubts about that.

Just recently our current prime minister was in England, he held talks with David Cameron and spoke or was told (about this case).

It would have been important for our prime-minister to speak first with those who were involved in the investigation in order to have a better understanding of what happened…
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 11, 2022, 03:17:15 PM
Well we don't really know that for sure, not much is allowed out about them.

I wouldn't put money on them never doing anything dishonest. [seems thats all Im allowed to say]

Amaral has a criminal conviction as a direct result of his dishonesty.  A suspended prison sentence for offences committed as a high ranking police officer is not a good look.

Sceptics tend to ignore the fact of Amaral's criminality while  fabricating the vilest slurs imaginable against the parents of a missing child for the simple reason blatant lies have to do because they have nothing else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 11, 2022, 03:43:13 PM

Amaral was there to attempt to solve the disappearance of a missing three year old child.  Hopefully to find her, or at the least to find out what happened to her.


Well, he could have probably done that if it wasn't for all the UK interference and GA himself wrapping the mccs in cotton wool because he had to.

All these years later and he has never changed his mind that the mccs were involved.

He has never been proved wrong has he.

"All these years later and he has never changed his mind that the mccs were involved." How terribly sad it is for you that you post that fact as if it were something to be proud of.  In reality it demonstrates the weakness and limitations of a person who is unable to learn from experience by assimilating and analysing information with an open mind.

"He has never been proved wrong has he."  Once again your post sadly reflects just how wrong you and Amaral are - which doesn't matter as far as you are concerned - but matters a great deal considering Amaral's negative influence on the first five months after Madeleine's abduction and over the years since.

Start with the dogs and the absolute misinterpretation of the forensic evidence and go backwards in the direction of the neglect of analysing data from the phone dump which contained Brueckner's phone number to realise that Amaral has been proved wrong so often it becomes embarrassing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 11, 2022, 04:33:27 PM
Yes, well what "you think" is neither here nor there - after all your only a poster on a forum where can spout your beliefs or ino propaganda on who you believe is responsible.

Just like me - whereas I believe G A was on the right track on who was responsible.

What we know to be factual is that Amaral and the PJ based their suspicions mainly on the misunderstanding of the evidence. I may be  a poster on a forum but I have a much better understanding of the alerts and the dna than Amaral...again thats a fact. What does that say about amaral.

All amarals claims of political interference are based on his imagination....


He could not possibly solve the case if he cannot understand the basics
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2022, 05:06:12 PM
Yes, well what "you think" is neither here nor there - after all your only a poster on a forum where can spout your beliefs or ino propaganda on who you believe is responsible.

Just like me - whereas I believe G A was on the right track on who was responsible.
What convinces you Amaral was on the right track, and why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 11, 2022, 05:49:48 PM
Amaral has a history of being dishonest.  The McCanns don't.

Very true. The parents employed a spokesperson to be dishonest for them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 11, 2022, 06:04:39 PM
Very true. The parents employed a spokesperson to be dishonest for them.

He didn't actually steal his brother's money, did he?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 11, 2022, 06:09:05 PM
Amaral has a criminal conviction as a direct result of his dishonesty.  A suspended prison sentence for offences committed as a high ranking police officer is not a good look.

Sceptics tend to ignore the fact of Amaral's criminality while  fabricating the vilest slurs imaginable against the parents of a missing child for the simple reason blatant lies have to do because they have nothing else.

I think it's a bit grasping at straws really, what actually is your point.

I'm not sticking up for GA but who exactly are you comparing him with.


Is the UK police force corrupt?
In the UK, an internal investigation in 2002 into the largest police force, the Metropolitan Police, Operation Tiberius found that the force was so corrupt that "organized criminals were able to infiltrate Scotland Yard "at will" by bribing corrupt officers ... and that Britain's biggest force experienced 'endemic ...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 11, 2022, 06:13:52 PM
What convinces you Amaral was on the right track, and why?

Oh Ve,....obviously -  IMO the mccs were involved
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2022, 06:15:36 PM
Oh Ve,....obviously -  IMO the mccs were involved
Yes I know that’s what you and Amaral think, I asked what convinces you that they are involved and why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2022, 06:16:22 PM
Very true. The parents employed a spokesperson to be dishonest for them.
Please give some examples of dishonesty?  Was it criminal dishonesty like Amaral’s?  Perhaps you can explain how you know the McCanns specifically employed a spokesman to be dishonest on their behalf.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 11, 2022, 08:22:37 PM
Gotta love these penetrating Advanced Level questions for bewildered 11+ students.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 11, 2022, 08:32:40 PM
Gotta love these penetrating Advanced Level questions for bewildered 11+ students.
@)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 11, 2022, 09:14:40 PM
I think it's a bit grasping at straws really, what actually is your point.

I'm not sticking up for GA but who exactly are you comparing him with.


Is the UK police force corrupt?
In the UK, an internal investigation in 2002 into the largest police force, the Metropolitan Police, Operation Tiberius found that the force was so corrupt that "organized criminals were able to infiltrate Scotland Yard "at will" by bribing corrupt officers ... and that Britain's biggest force experienced 'endemic ...


Oh dear ~ the usual fall back position for sceptics when reminded of Amaral's proven record of criminality and incompetence.

How far does your supposition take you regarding criminality in the Met?  Bearing in mind the numbers of well kent faces which have served within its ranks.
Colin Sutton spent the last nine years of his police career as Senior Investigating Officer for the Met Police’s Murder Squad.

Who interestingly comments when asked ~

Are there any unsolved cases across the world that you would be interested in tackling?

"Not now, I am too happy being retired!

But had the Madeline McCann review come my way before retirement I would have stayed to complete that;

it is the greatest mystery of our generation, and despite its obvious difficulty I would have been unable to resist the opportunity to try to help solve it."

https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/article/interview-with-colin-sutton
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 12, 2022, 12:28:16 PM
Oh dear ~ the usual fall back position for sceptics when reminded of Amaral's proven record of criminality and incompetence.

How far does your supposition take you regarding criminality in the Met?  Bearing in mind the numbers of well kent faces which have served within its ranks.
Colin Sutton spent the last nine years of his police career as Senior Investigating Officer for the Met Police’s Murder Squad.

Who interestingly comments when asked ~

Are there any unsolved cases across the world that you would be interested in tackling?

"Not now, I am too happy being retired!

But had the Madeline McCann review come my way before retirement I would have stayed to complete that;

it is the greatest mystery of our generation, and despite its obvious difficulty I would have been unable to resist the opportunity to try to help solve it."

https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/article/interview-with-colin-sutton

Oh Dear B get over it..... after all GA was not the only one who thinks the mccs are involved.

If we are talking incompetence of GA you should consider the incompetence of the mccs - they are the ones who who decided to leave there babies on there own regardless of any consequence.

IMO its like the philpotts not being responsible and blaming the fire brigade for not putting the fire out.

The mccs struck the match that resulted in the disappearance of maddie....not GA.

We will never know because of UK interference ...what GA would have achieved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 12, 2022, 12:30:26 PM
Yes I know that’s what you and Amaral think, I asked what convinces you that they are involved and why?

Well, for starters I don't believe the open window....if that isn't true neither is anything else
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 12, 2022, 12:44:04 PM

There is no doubt that Amaral was utterly useless, if not worse than that.  He has since attempted to make a career out of Interfering With The Course of Justice.  And that's a Fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 12, 2022, 12:56:25 PM
Well, for starters I don't believe the open window....if that isn't true neither is anything else
Why don't you believe it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 12, 2022, 12:58:59 PM
Oh Dear B get over it..... after all GA was not the only one who thinks the mccs are involved.

If we are talking incompetence of GA you should consider the incompetence of the mccs - they are the ones who who decided to leave there babies on there own regardless of any consequence.

IMO its like the philpotts not being responsible and blaming the fire brigade for not putting the fire out.

The mccs struck the match that resulted in the disappearance of maddie....not GA.

We will never know because of UK interference ...what GA would have achieved.
I think that's a very crass and certainly defamatory comparison.  The Philpotts set fire to their own house.  It was a deliberate criminal act (arson) which certainly put their children in grave peril and resulted in their deaths.   The McCanns were investigated an cleared of any criminal charges of negligence, so - no comparison at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2022, 01:01:12 PM
Oh Dear B get over it..... after all GA was not the only one who thinks the mccs are involved.

If we are talking incompetence of GA you should consider the incompetence of the mccs - they are the ones who who decided to leave there babies on there own regardless of any consequence.

IMO its like the philpotts not being responsible and blaming the fire brigade for not putting the fire out.

The mccs struck the match that resulted in the disappearance of maddie....not GA.

We will never know because of UK interference ...what GA would have achieved.

A GERMAN prosecutor has told The Sun Portuguese police are still convinced Maddie McCann’s parents are involved in her death.

But Hans Christian Wolters, Braunschweig state prosecutor, is convinced Christian B is the main suspect and Kate and Gerry McCann "don't have anything to do with it".

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11835061/madeleine-mccann-prosecutor-portuguese-cops/

The Sun reported this in early June 2020.

Since then there has been a sea change in attitudes by the Portuguese authorities. 

They no longer have any belief in Amaral's badly flawed thesis.

They are employing a new method of cracking cases it seems. Which concentrates in using evidence based information.

In other words a technique entirely foreign to Amaral who made it all up and stuck to it as if it were writ on tablets of stone.  Commonly known as FOLLOWING the EVIDENCE.

As a result - Brueckner is now the main suspect of the Portuguese (ARGUIDO) as already posted here on the forum ~

The German Christian Brueckner was accused by the District of Faro of the Public Prosecutor's Office in the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, in 2007, on the beach of Luz, in the Algarve.‎

The JN knows that the constitution of the accused was fundamental for the investigation to continue, since the inquiry would prescribe next May, when it is 15 years after the child's disappearance.‎

‎"The defendant was constituted by the German authorities in execution of a request for international judicial cooperation issued by the Public Prosecutor's Office of Portugal," it reads in a statement released by the Public Prosecutor's Office.‎

‎The investigation is directed by the Portimão section of the Faro Investigation and Prosecution Department with the assistof the Judicial Police.‎

‎The investigation has been developed in cooperation with the English and German authorities.‎

https://www.jn.pt/justica/christian-bruckner-constituido-arguido-pelo-desaparecimento-de-maddie-14789970.html

Amaral and the Portuguese authorities appear to have had it all wrong for fifteen years which I don't really think they will appreciate being highlighted in posts such as tours.
Which proves that for fifteen years they ignored a heinous crime committed in their jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2022, 01:02:54 PM
Oh Dear B get over it..... after all GA was not the only one who thinks the mccs are involved.

If we are talking incompetence of GA you should consider the incompetence of the mccs - they are the ones who who decided to leave there babies on there own regardless of any consequence.

IMO its like the philpotts not being responsible and blaming the fire brigade for not putting the fire out.

The mccs struck the match that resulted in the disappearance of maddie....not GA.

We will never know because of UK interference ...what GA would have achieved.

The problem which I think stems from the base nature of the hero of the hour for some Amaral, is the inherent nastiness which was in vogue for a time of making comparison with the Phillpots et al.

Interestingly it is said that Ian Brady enjoyed using that sort of criticism.  Pathetic to have the imprimatur of a creature such as that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2022, 01:29:25 PM
The problem which I think stems from the base nature of the hero of the hour for some Amaral, is the inherent nastiness which was in vogue for a time of making comparison with the Phillpots et al.

Interestingly it is said that Ian Brady enjoyed using that sort of criticism.  Pathetic to have the imprimatur of a creature such as that.

Whatever you say about Amaral - and most of it is speculation, not fact, imo - there's no getting away from the fact that Madeleine's parents were the last people to see her, and she disappeared on their watch.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 12, 2022, 01:35:06 PM
Whatever you say about Amaral - and most of it is speculation, not fact, imo - there's no getting away from the fact that Madeleine's parents were the last people to see her, and she disappeared on their watch.
So what?  Chloe Smith's parents were the last to see her and she disappeared on their watch - until she was found days later, having been abducted by a stranger. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 12, 2022, 01:37:28 PM
The problem which I think stems from the base nature of the hero of the hour for some Amaral, is the inherent nastiness which was in vogue for a time of making comparison with the Phillpots et al.

Interestingly it is said that Ian Brady enjoyed using that sort of criticism.  Pathetic to have the imprimatur of a creature such as that.


hero of the hour for some Amaral,


Look, these are your words ...no one else's certainly not mine for some reason GA is a thorn in your side.

The damage was done by the mccs. 

What do you think GA would have done to try and solve the case if he had been given the chance. you dont know o you.

The case was to high profile for anything untoward to happen to them.

They were never going to end up in an episode of Banged up abroad.



Well, approximately one year ago, we all watched, stupefied, a sort of spectacle that had until then been unheard of, among us. Like in the witch hunts of the past, a certain media (mainly English, but unfortunately not only that) destroyed a Man from the Portuguese Polícia Judiciária in public. A high-ranking Criminal Investigation career official. A colleague and a friend to so many of us. A character assassination like no other employee of this House had ever been a victim of, before. And why?

Because, as had always been his hallmark, Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, a Polícia Judiciária Criminal Investigation Coordinator, went to fight, committed himself, faced, bravely and decidedly, the difficulties and the setbacks of a service case that is extremely complex and whose outlines are still undefined, and may remain so forever.

Maybe for the first time in the Polícia Judiciária's History, an investigator is exposed in public and his private life is rummaged. Merely because he was investigating a certain suspicious case. Because he was working. Maybe the Portuguese State, the Public Administration, our Polícia Judiciária, should have mechanisms in place to protect its representatives in situations like this one. In order to safeguard them as they carry out their professional activity for the benefit of Public Service. Maybe all of us, colleagues in profession, should have stood up, and honouring the so famous, so traditional and so bandied about "Esprit de Corps" that they say is characteristic of our "House", should have somehow manifested our support of Dr. Gonçalo Amaral.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 12, 2022, 01:49:47 PM
Whatever you say about Amaral - and most of it is speculation, not fact, imo - there's no getting away from the fact that Madeleine's parents were the last people to see her, and she disappeared on their watch.
How can amarsl have any credibility when he didn't understand the evidence...that's fact not opinion

His whole  thesis is based on total junk..fact...can't you see that
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 12, 2022, 01:53:13 PM


hero of the hour for some Amaral,


Look, these are your words ...no one else's certainly not mine for some reason GA is a thorn in your side.

The damage was done by the mccs. 

What do you think GA would have done to try and solve the case if he had been given the chance. you dont know o you.

The case was to high profile for anything untoward to happen to them.

They were never going to end up in an episode of Banged up abroad.



Well, approximately one year ago, we all watched, stupefied, a sort of spectacle that had until then been unheard of, among us. Like in the witch hunts of the past, a certain media (mainly English, but unfortunately not only that) destroyed a Man from the Portuguese Polícia Judiciária in public. A high-ranking Criminal Investigation career official. A colleague and a friend to so many of us. A character assassination like no other employee of this House had ever been a victim of, before. And why?

Because, as had always been his hallmark, Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, a Polícia Judiciária Criminal Investigation Coordinator, went to fight, committed himself, faced, bravely and decidedly, the difficulties and the setbacks of a service case that is extremely complex and whose outlines are still undefined, and may remain so forever.

Maybe for the first time in the Polícia Judiciária's History, an investigator is exposed in public and his private life is rummaged. Merely because he was investigating a certain suspicious case. Because he was working. Maybe the Portuguese State, the Public Administration, our Polícia Judiciária, should have mechanisms in place to protect its representatives in situations like this one. In order to safeguard them as they carry out their professional activity for the benefit of Public Service. Maybe all of us, colleagues in profession, should have stood up, and honouring the so famous, so traditional and so bandied about "Esprit de Corps" that they say is characteristic of our "House", should have somehow manifested our support of Dr. Gonçalo Amaral.




Amaral couldn't solve thr case if he couldn't understand the evidence...fact. His logic to support death in the apartment is total junk...have you read his book
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 12, 2022, 01:57:35 PM


hero of the hour for some Amaral,


Look, these are your words ...no one else's certainly not mine for some reason GA is a thorn in your side.

The damage was done by the mccs. 

What do you think GA would have done to try and solve the case if he had been given the chance. you dont know o you.

The case was to high profile for anything untoward to happen to them.

They were never going to end up in an episode of Banged up abroad.



Well, approximately one year ago, we all watched, stupefied, a sort of spectacle that had until then been unheard of, among us. Like in the witch hunts of the past, a certain media (mainly English, but unfortunately not only that) destroyed a Man from the Portuguese Polícia Judiciária in public. A high-ranking Criminal Investigation career official. A colleague and a friend to so many of us. A character assassination like no other employee of this House had ever been a victim of, before. And why?

Because, as had always been his hallmark, Dr. Gonçalo Amaral, a Polícia Judiciária Criminal Investigation Coordinator, went to fight, committed himself, faced, bravely and decidedly, the difficulties and the setbacks of a service case that is extremely complex and whose outlines are still undefined, and may remain so forever.

Maybe for the first time in the Polícia Judiciária's History, an investigator is exposed in public and his private life is rummaged. Merely because he was investigating a certain suspicious case. Because he was working. Maybe the Portuguese State, the Public Administration, our Polícia Judiciária, should have mechanisms in place to protect its representatives in situations like this one. In order to safeguard them as they carry out their professional activity for the benefit of Public Service. Maybe all of us, colleagues in profession, should have stood up, and honouring the so famous, so traditional and so bandied about "Esprit de Corps" that they say is characteristic of our "House", should have somehow manifested our support of Dr. Gonçalo Amaral.




Tis strange that no one went to his Leaving Party.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 12, 2022, 02:03:15 PM
How can amarsl have any credibility when he didn't understand the evidence...that's fact not opinion

His whole  thesis is based on total junk..fact...can't you see that

Seems you have an obsession with evidence. weather GA understood it or not. that is only your opinion.

He was right about a scapegoat being brought in the picture.

Still not charged over two years later. what is the evidence Wolters has concrete at that.  Its going to fizzle out to zilch

Just like the no evidence of abduction zilch
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 12, 2022, 02:05:19 PM
Tis strange that no one went to his Leaving Party.

Probably he didn't want a leaving party.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 12, 2022, 02:08:19 PM
Probably he didn't want a leaving party.

His wife complained about it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 12, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
His wife complained about it.

What, that no one went
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 12, 2022, 02:15:21 PM
What, that no one went

Yes.  She couldn't understand why.  And was upset.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 12, 2022, 03:08:23 PM
Why don't you believe it?

Because I don't.

Why do you believe it was.....and why


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 12, 2022, 03:19:19 PM
Because I don't.

Why do you believe it was.....and why
Because it was seen open by an independent witness for one thing. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 12, 2022, 03:20:23 PM
Seems you have an obsession with evidence. weather GA understood it or not. that is only your opinion.

He was right about a scapegoat being brought in the picture.

Still not charged over two years later. what is the evidence Wolters has concrete at that.  Its going to fizzle out to zilch

Just like the no evidence of abduction zilch
Being obsessed by the evidence is not a bad thing.  It's better that being obsessed with the McCanns' guilt without fully understanding the evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2022, 03:38:37 PM
Yes.  She couldn't understand why.  And was upset.

Also terribly upsetting for Amaral's wife was the failure of his bosses to promote him.  Rather makes one wonder how much of his book was resentment for Madeleine and her family and how much of it was resentment for his superiors who failed to promote him then sacked him ~ not to mention having charged him with a serious criminal offence.

Consider this:

      a) Professionally

      --As coordinator of criminal investigation for the PJ, my husband has always refused to sit                   comfortably behind his desk, from 9 to 5, which is usual for his rank.

Instead of that, he spent the day (and sometimes the night) on the ground with the investigators, coordinating "on the spot" searches, surveillance, seizures and other duties.
   ---------------------------------------------------------
The problem is his commitment to the cause which has cost him promotion in his career.

I will explain, because this case is contemporary to the search for your daughter.

My husband was involved as senior coordinator, and between seizures of drugs, kidnappings and murders, he succeeded in producing a theory about drug trafficking by sea, which he defended before a jury in Lisbon, who congratulated him.

Full of hope, Gonçalo Amaral returned to the Algarve to await the result.

It was with astonishment that he learned that he had been passed over by other colleagues (coordinators as it happens, to tell the truth), because he had not managed to get himself into "professional training" settings.

And yes, Madam Kate, my husband spent his life working, in the midst of complex investigations.

He was the man in Portugal who seized most drugs, but as he didn't have the time to parade himself in the corridors of the PJ's institution, he was not promoted. A disgrace, madam, a disgrace!

Sofia Leal's open letter to Kate McCann
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2022, 03:44:44 PM
Being obsessed by the evidence is not a bad thing.  It's better that being obsessed with the McCanns' guilt without fully understanding the evidence.

I think Sofia Leal's open letter displays a resentment of Madeleine and her family which is totally unwarranted.

Particularly since most of the events referred to and complained of were historical to Amaral's career and happened long before anyone from the McCann family even thought about holidaying in Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 12, 2022, 03:59:36 PM
Seems you have an obsession with evidence. weather GA understood it or not. that is only your opinion.

He was right about a scapegoat being brought in the picture.

Still not charged over two years later. what is the evidence Wolters has concrete at that.  Its going to fizzle out to zilch

Just like the no evidence of abduction zilch

Amaral didn't understand the evidence..that's fact...not opinion.....and he isn't right about CB being a scapegoat
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 12, 2022, 04:05:44 PM
I think Sofia Leal's open letter displays a resentment of Madeleine and her family which is totally unwarranted.

Particularly since most of the events referred to and complained of were historical to Amaral's career and happened long before anyone from the McCann family even thought about holidaying in Portugal.
I think her letter was completely beyond the pale, and an utter embarrassment to her and her family.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 12, 2022, 05:28:19 PM
I think her letter was completely beyond the pale, and an utter embarrassment to her and her family.

It was a horrible Open Letter and plastered all over The Internet, while she remained indicted for the stealing of the money from Amaral's Brother.  They were both found Guilty of this Offence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2022, 05:40:55 PM
I think her letter was completely beyond the pale, and an utter embarrassment to her and her family.

Would it have been written if Kate McCann had not attacked Amaral? In an interview with a Portuguese newspaper she said "as a professional and as a person his behaviour has been a disgrace."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 12, 2022, 05:51:21 PM
Would it have been written if Kate McCann had not attacked Amaral? In an interview with a Portuguese newspaper she said "as a professional and as a person his behaviour has been a disgrace."

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2022, 05:59:55 PM
I think her letter was completely beyond the pale, and an utter embarrassment to her and her family.

It was a mean spirited thing to do but it certainly clarified a little of what duties Amaral was alleged to have performed in his coordinator role.

According to Sofia - no way was he a desk pilot.  There he was out there in the field leaving no stone unturned in the performance of his duties.

Yet he was never given the promotion which he thought he merited!  I think the sense of entitlement this couple displays is extraordinary and my how they have utilised their paranoia to cash in on it.  Both blamed the organisation which employed him for many of his woes and I think some of his preambles regarding the whys and wherefore of his book betray that resentment.

But he knew he wasn't going to get anywhere following that line was he.  So Amaral, like the bully he is made the excuse of 'interference' and chose what he expected was the easier target.
But like just about everything else he touched - he got that entirely wrong too.  And decrying legitimate targets as 'scapegoats' really isn't going to work for him.  Particularly as the investigation he coordinated totally ignored the phone evidence he should have noticed in 2007.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2022, 06:10:16 PM
Would it have been written if Kate McCann had not attacked Amaral? In an interview with a Portuguese newspaper she said "as a professional and as a person his behaviour has been a disgrace."

What is your evidence that Amaral's personal and professional behaviour is not disgraceful?

There is plenty of evidence supporting exactly that starting from page one of this thread confirming it.

NB  Not speculation.  Not opinion.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 12, 2022, 06:56:19 PM
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I think that’s the point.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2022, 08:25:28 PM
What is your evidence that Amaral's personal and professional behaviour is not disgraceful?

There is plenty of evidence supporting exactly that starting from page one of this thread confirming it.

NB  Not speculation.  Not opinion.

I know that Kate McCann had access to none of your 'evidence' when she made that comment.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 12, 2022, 08:32:50 PM
Would it have been written if Kate McCann had not attacked Amaral? In an interview with a Portuguese newspaper she said "as a professional and as a person his behaviour has been a disgrace."
And she was absolutely correct as it turns out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 12, 2022, 08:33:52 PM
I know that Kate McCann had access to none of your 'evidence' when she made that comment.
what a good judge of character she was, eh?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2022, 09:39:40 PM
what a good judge of character she was, eh?

Was she? I don't think she understood his character at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 12, 2022, 10:00:13 PM
Was she? I don't think she understood his character at all.
Why do you say that?  How well do you know his character?  Presumably better than Kate in order to criticise her for not judging it correctly. (&^&
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 12, 2022, 10:25:13 PM
Was she? I don't think she understood his character at all.

I don't think you do
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 13, 2022, 09:08:34 AM
I know that Kate McCann had access to none of your 'evidence' when she made that comment.

As always you are absolutely and entirely wrong when making any comment on this case.

Kate McCanns first hand experience of Amaral's conduct and his mismanagement of Madeleine's case forms a huge part of the evidence Kate has.

She lived it all from the moment on 3 May 2007 when she found the window open and the shutters raised in the children's room and commented about Amaral's profit making disgraceful book on 6 September 2008.

Amaral wrote
" ... then at 19pm Madeleine's mother goes in her turn into the bedroom

she sees the open window

the raised shutters

and the curtains waving in the breeze

This scenario is highly improbable since THE SHUTTERS CANNOT BE OPERATED FROM THE OUTSIDE"
  Which is just one of the demonstrably disgraceful LIES from the book Amaral and sceptics believe to be unholy writ.

Kate and Gerry raised and spent a lot of money looking for their child who no-one else was looking for;  Amaral raised and spent a lot of money for self protection and self indulgence. 
I think the evidence was definitely available to Kate McCann at the time to enable her to form a highly educated opinion regarding the disgrace that is Amaral.

The couple's official spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: 'Kate and Gerry have chosen to speak out to an element of the Portuguese media now because they still firmly believe that there may well be important information that somebody knows in Portugal.

'It is important the message is targeted in that region initially, and Kate and Gerry will assess the reaction to their interview and public opinion in Portugal before deciding on whether to do any further media interviews in the near future.

'Everything Kate and Gerry are doing now is geared towards assisting their own investigation into finding Madeleine.

'They will do everything they can to generate vital new leads.'

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 13, 2022, 09:32:41 AM
Was she? I don't think she understood his character at all.

She didn’t need to understand it, merely to blacken it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 13, 2022, 09:41:12 AM
She didn’t need to understand it, merely to blacken it.

Amaral was quite good at doing that himself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 10:02:52 AM
As always you are absolutely and entirely wrong when making any comment on this case.

Kate McCanns first hand experience of Amaral's conduct and his mismanagement of Madeleine's case forms a huge part of the evidence Kate has.

She lived it all from the moment on 3 May 2007 when she found the window open and the shutters raised in the children's room and commented about Amaral's profit making disgraceful book on 6 September 2008.

Amaral wrote
" ... then at 19pm Madeleine's mother goes in her turn into the bedroom

she sees the open window

the raised shutters

and the curtains waving in the breeze

This scenario is highly improbable since THE SHUTTERS CANNOT BE OPERATED FROM THE OUTSIDE"
  Which is just one of the demonstrably disgraceful LIES from the book Amaral and sceptics believe to be unholy writ.

Kate and Gerry raised and spent a lot of money looking for their child who no-one else was looking for;  Amaral raised and spent a lot of money for self protection and self indulgence. 
I think the evidence was definitely available to Kate McCann at the time to enable her to form a highly educated opinion regarding the disgrace that is Amaral.

The couple's official spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: 'Kate and Gerry have chosen to speak out to an element of the Portuguese media now because they still firmly believe that there may well be important information that somebody knows in Portugal.

'It is important the message is targeted in that region initially, and Kate and Gerry will assess the reaction to their interview and public opinion in Portugal before deciding on whether to do any further media interviews in the near future.

'Everything Kate and Gerry are doing now is geared towards assisting their own investigation into finding Madeleine.

'They will do everything they can to generate vital new leads.'


Kate's education lacked knowledge of the Portuguese language so on 6th September 2008 her 'highly educated opinion' was not formed after reading Amaral's book.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 13, 2022, 10:28:35 AM
Kate's education lacked knowledge of the Portuguese language so on 6th September 2008 her 'highly educated opinion' was not formed after reading Amaral's book.

It doesn't take much to realise what a poor cop amaral was..It's quite possible Kate knew about his involvement in the Cipriano torture case
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 13, 2022, 10:34:15 AM
It doesn't take much to realise what a poor cop amaral was..It's quite possible Kate knew about his involvement in the Cipriano torture case

I am pretty certain that Kate did know.  That is why The Ambassador turned up so quickly.  In My Opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 13, 2022, 10:35:15 AM
Kate's education lacked knowledge of the Portuguese language so on 6th September 2008 her 'highly educated opinion' was not formed after reading Amaral's book.

Did I say Kate had read Amaral's book?

What I actually said is ~

"As always you are absolutely and entirely wrong when making any comment on this case.

Kate McCanns first hand experience of Amaral's conduct and his mismanagement of Madeleine's case forms a huge part of the evidence Kate has.

She lived it all from the moment on 3 May 2007 when she found the window open and the shutters raised in the children's room and commented about Amaral's profit making disgraceful book on 6 September 2008.

Amaral wrote ..."


Which rather misrepresents the fact that my referral to "Kate McCanns first hand experience of Amaral's conduct and his mismanagement of Madeleine's case ..." once again represents your total commitment to distortion of facts inherent in sceptic portrayal of every fact with which you take issue
Please note
I made no such referral such as that alluded to by you in your post.  Wrong again - was it?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 13, 2022, 10:57:27 AM
I am pretty certain that Kate did know.  That is why The Ambassador turned up so quickly.  In My Opinion.

It was all kept very hush hush of course but I'm sure Kate was privy to it just as she was privy to knowledge of the intruder assaults on children which at that time seemed endemic on the Algarve.

She wrote about that in her book and was roundly ridiculed for it, I remember well.

It was one of the first lines of invquiry when Scotland Yard began investigating the case.  Do sceptics never give pause for thought that Amaral's theses didn't spare a moments thought to a man reportedly entering holiday homes and abusing children?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 13, 2022, 11:07:46 AM
Amaral was quite good at doing that himself.

As were the parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 11:12:35 AM
Did I say Kate had read Amaral's book?

What I actually said is ~

"As always you are absolutely and entirely wrong when making any comment on this case.

Kate McCanns first hand experience of Amaral's conduct and his mismanagement of Madeleine's case forms a huge part of the evidence Kate has.

She lived it all from the moment on 3 May 2007 when she found the window open and the shutters raised in the children's room and commented about Amaral's profit making disgraceful book on 6 September 2008.

Amaral wrote ..."


Which rather misrepresents the fact that my referral to "Kate McCanns first hand experience of Amaral's conduct and his mismanagement of Madeleine's case ..." once again represents your total commitment to distortion of facts inherent in sceptic portrayal of every fact with which you take issue
Please note
I made no such referral such as that alluded to by you in your post.  Wrong again - was it?

Sorry, I thought commenting on a book involved reading it, so I assumed you meant that's what she'd done;

"She lived it all from the moment on 3 May 2007 when she found the window open and the shutters raised in the children's room and commented about Amaral's profit making disgraceful book on 6 September 2008."

Mind you, many people have commented on his book who don't seem to have read it. Gerry got one thing right;

Gerry – We wouldn’t mind if we had been investigated at the beginning, if they thought that could help. But months later, when the evidence had been lost? It’s that once the suspicion is installed, we can never prove our innocence again.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/mccanns-in-expresso-interview-06-09-08-t23178.html

Of course the suspicions of the PJ didn't cease after September 2007, it continued until the case was archived and Amaral had not been involved for 10 months.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 13, 2022, 11:13:46 AM
As were the parents.

Have The McCanns ever been arrested or charged with anything?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 13, 2022, 11:28:24 AM
She didn’t need to understand it, merely to blacken it.
LOL.  Amaral (a proven liar) has made a career out of blackening the McCann name, no wonder Kate doesn't have a particularly high opinion of him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 13, 2022, 11:31:39 AM
Sorry, I thought commenting on a book involved reading it, so I assumed you meant that's what she'd done;

"She lived it all from the moment on 3 May 2007 when she found the window open and the shutters raised in the children's room and commented about Amaral's profit making disgraceful book on 6 September 2008."

Mind you, many people have commented on his book who don't seem to have read it. Gerry got one thing right;

Gerry – We wouldn’t mind if we had been investigated at the beginning, if they thought that could help. But months later, when the evidence had been lost? It’s that once the suspicion is installed, we can never prove our innocence again.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/mccanns-in-expresso-interview-06-09-08-t23178.html

Of course the suspicions of the PJ didn't cease after September 2007, it continued until the case was archived and Amaral had not been involved for 10 months.
That is precisely why Amaral and his actions have proven so devastatingly damaging to the McCanns - let's hope the ECHR put this travesty of justice right, eh?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 13, 2022, 11:40:31 AM
Have The McCanns ever been arrested or charged with anything?

Well, Brueckner hasn't been charged with abducting Maddie.
So maybe she just wasn't abducted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 11:54:02 AM
That is precisely why Amaral and his actions have proven so devastatingly damaging to the McCanns - let's hope the ECHR put this travesty of justice right, eh?

The McCanns were suspected by the PJ and made arguidos in September 2007. I doubt it was all down to one man persuading all his colleagues that it was the right thing to do. Only the paranoid could believe that imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 13, 2022, 12:05:07 PM
The McCanns were suspected by the PJ and made arguidos in September 2007. I doubt it was all down to one man persuading all his colleagues that it was the right thing to do. Only the paranoid could believe that imo.
I was referring more to his actions after they were made arguidos actually, and as for it only being one man that Kate held responsible for the serious damage caused to the McCanns I believe there were a couple of other individuals within the PJ she quite understandably wasn't that keen on either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 12:18:00 PM
I was referring more to his actions after they were made arguidos actually, and as for it only being one man that Kate held responsible for the serious damage caused to the McCanns I believe there were a couple of other individuals within the PJ she quite understandably wasn't that keen on either.

Maybe so, but being officially named as suspects was a fact which could not be denied.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 13, 2022, 12:31:24 PM
Maybe so, but being officially named as suspects was a fact which could not be denied.
Who is trying to deny that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 13, 2022, 12:54:33 PM
Maybe so, but being officially named as suspects was a fact which could not be denied.

So was Amaral named Arguido.  But he was convicted.  Along with another one of his Team.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 12:56:23 PM
Who is trying to deny that?

Some people have done their very best to present it as a mistake by a dodgy police force belonging to a country with a dodgy judiciary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 12:59:17 PM
So was Amaral named Arguido.  But he was convicted.  Along with another one of his Team.

You have proved Gerry's point too. Such things are never forgotten.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 13, 2022, 01:00:09 PM
Some people have done their very best to present it as a mistake by a dodgy police force belonging to a country with a dodgy judiciary.

It was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 13, 2022, 01:54:57 PM
Some people have done their very best to present it as a mistake by a dodgy police force belonging to a country with a dodgy judiciary.
Well imagine you've gone on holiday abroad and been falsely accused of hiding your child's body by the police - are you going to remain silent?  I bet you are!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 13, 2022, 02:18:38 PM
The McCanns were suspected by the PJ and made arguidos in September 2007. I doubt it was all down to one man persuading all his colleagues that it was the right thing to do. Only the paranoid could believe that imo.
The PJ...not just amaral didn't understand the evidence..you should know that..it's an established fact. A bunch of incompetent fools
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 13, 2022, 02:20:21 PM
You have proved Gerry's point too. Such things are never forgotten.
But what is your point?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 13, 2022, 02:29:56 PM
Amaral couldn't solve thr case if he couldn't understand the evidence...fact. His logic to support death in the apartment is total junk...have you read his book

Yes I have read the book - wrote on facts from GA being on the case...with first hand knowledge [not hearsay]

As for him not understanding the evidence....it wasn't exactly kosha he GA did regret ever sending the DNA to that lab.


 More than 6,000 forensic samples used to secure criminal convictions feared tampered with.

https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.com/2017/05/more-than-6000-forensic-samples-used-to.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 13, 2022, 03:21:23 PM
Sorry, I thought commenting on a book involved reading it, so I assumed you meant that's what she'd done;

"She lived it all from the moment on 3 May 2007 when she found the window open and the shutters raised in the children's room and commented about Amaral's profit making disgraceful book on 6 September 2008."

Mind you, many people have commented on his book who don't seem to have read it. Gerry got one thing right;

Gerry – We wouldn’t mind if we had been investigated at the beginning, if they thought that could help. But months later, when the evidence had been lost? It’s that once the suspicion is installed, we can never prove our innocence again.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/mccanns-in-expresso-interview-06-09-08-t23178.html

Of course the suspicions of the PJ didn't cease after September 2007, it continued until the case was archived and Amaral had not been involved for 10 months.

You really don't make the slightest effort to keep apace with current developments do you?  Hence your predilection for dwelling within the confines of groundhog day.

"Of course the suspicions of the PJ didn't cease after September 2007 ... "  I have already informed you of precisely that unfortunate situation. https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11381.msg688434#msg688434 but as always you've managed to get it wrong. 

If the nonsense had continued only "until the case was archived and Amaral had not been involved for 10 months." that would have been beneficial. But Amaral, with the wholehearted connivance of his chat show friends including Christovao, never gave up involvement after 10 months but kept his show well and truly on the road for fifteen years. 

Amaral threw everything he had into maintaining the status quo right up to the time when it became obvious - even to the Portuguese who made Brueckner prime suspect by dint of the evidence - that a huge injustice had been perpetrated by Amaral against the McCanns and his continued obsessive dedication to interfere in Madeleine's case as always to the detriment of solving it and slurring her parents at the same time.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 13, 2022, 03:39:35 PM
Some people have done their very best to present it as a mistake by a dodgy police force belonging to a country with a dodgy judiciary.

If a monumental reputation destroying mistake had not been made ... why were the McCanns not charged with an offence as Amaral was?

Why were the McCanns not prosecuted as Amaral was?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 13, 2022, 03:53:52 PM
Yes I have read the book - wrote on facts from GA being on the case...with first hand knowledge [not hearsay]

As for him not understanding the evidence....it wasn't exactly kosha he GA did regret ever sending the DNA to that lab.


 More than 6,000 forensic samples used to secure criminal convictions feared tampered with.

https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.com/2017/05/more-than-6000-forensic-samples-used-to.html

Amaral claimed the dog alerts proved Maddie died in the apartment..they didn't..he's s clown. The pj files make it clear that he's wrong.

You are pointing out the wrong lab..the samples were not sent there...no evidence the samples were tampered with.more junk from amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 13, 2022, 03:56:43 PM
Yes I have read the book - wrote on facts from GA being on the case...with first hand knowledge [not hearsay]

As for him not understanding the evidence....it wasn't exactly kosha he GA did regret ever sending the DNA to that lab.


 More than 6,000 forensic samples used to secure criminal convictions feared tampered with.

https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.com/2017/05/more-than-6000-forensic-samples-used-to.html

Get your facts right. 

Your source is a hate site and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the FSS or Madeleine's case unless you can find a link to Randox Testing Services (RTS).

This is the problem Amaral and sceptics have
"Why was FORENSIC REPORT changed? - Maddie McCann CMTV April 23rd 2016 Video Courtesy of HiDeHo"
Neither have the slightest compunction in using a lie and alleging it to be true while proudly putting their ignorance and their lie on public display.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 04:49:53 PM
Well imagine you've gone on holiday abroad and been falsely accused of hiding your child's body by the police - are you going to remain silent?  I bet you are!

Are you saying that it was the McCanns who were behind all the stories attacking Portugal and the PJ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 13, 2022, 04:53:43 PM
Are you saying that it was the McCanns who were behind all the stories attacking Portugal and the PJ?

This is a gross misrepresentation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 13, 2022, 05:34:37 PM
Amaral claimed the dog alerts proved Maddie died in the apartment..they didn't..he's s clown. The pj files make it clear that he's wrong.

You are pointing out the wrong lab..the samples were not sent there...no evidence the samples were tampered with.more junk from amaral.

Well. no different to walt then....

The thing with GA is he knows what he was talking about ....he was there.

He wrote the book as fact....the mccs failed to have it banned.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 13, 2022, 05:38:03 PM
Are you saying that it was the McCanns who were behind all the stories attacking Portugal and the PJ?

You know fine that wasn't what the post said.  But you have to ignore that to stay on message and back up Amaral on the "Stress and Pain" he has endured.

His timing was merde as always.

How is it possible to moan about the slings and arrows besetting YOU while badmouthing the parents of a missing child to mark the tenth anniversary of her disappearance.
The insensitivity of anyone doing that is just mind boggling!  Almost as mind boggling as anyone falling for that level of obscene insensibility.

The one thing Amaral is expert on is scapegoating and pansies.  After all he has been honing these skills in relation to blaming the McCanns for everything that has gone wrong in his life since the midwife skelped his arse.

'MY STRESS AND PAIN' Former Portuguese cop Goncalo Amaral whinges the McCanns have ruined HIS life on 10th anniversary of Maddie disappearance
The ex detective says his career and marriage broke down in the aftermath of the Maddie inquiry

Tracey Kandohla
28 Apr 2017

A FORMER Portuguese cop who the McCann’s failed to silence over claims they covered up their daughter’s accidental death now blames THEM for wrecking his career.

Goncalo Amaral also blasts Kate and Gerry for slandering him, undermining his work and disrupting his home life.

As the couple face the heartbreak 10th anniversary of Maddie’s disappearance in six days the ex detective has today spoken to a respected Portuguese magazine.

In further rants he accuses the British Government and Scotland Yard of interfering in the case, protecting Maddie’s parents and causing the Portuguese authorities to bow to pressure.

Mr Amaral talks about his own decade of “stress and pain” while the McCanns brace themselves for the milestone “horrible marker of time, stolen time.”

The former Policia Judiciaria inspector was booted off the bungled Maddie inquiry after criticising Met and Leicestershire police and later retired.

Now he's said: “A senior police officer’s career should not have been thrown away to defend a couple suspected at least of the child’s negligence that led to the disappearance.”

He said had every right to be critical of the Kate and Gerry and the system and insisted: “I should not have retired from the PJ. I should not have been allowed to have been put under so much pressure.

"The police did not defend me or my colleagues from the injury and insults targeted at us.”

Mr Amaral, whose marriage also broke down in the aftermath of the Maddie inquiry, accused his bosses of being pressurised and intimidated by British authorities who he believes were intent on “protecting” two wealthy middle class doctors.

Three-year-old Maddie vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal’s Praia da Luz in May 2007. She had been left alone with her younger twin siblings while her parents were dining nearby with pals.

Former GP Kate, 49, and renowned heart consultant Gerry, 48, from Rothley, Leics, believe their daughter was kidnapped during a burglary gone wrong or by child traffickers.

Mr Amaral, whose team investigated the missing girl’s case, claims she died in an accident in the rented flat by falling or by being given an overdose of sedatives and her parents later disposed of her body. He said there was never any proof she was snatched by intruders.

The divorcee, 57, told weekly news magazine Sabado: “It was almost a lack of respect to make the decision that she was abducted and make it public.”

He added: “It was not objectively looking at the process. If the investigation ever comes to an end and if it proves that the parents have nothing to do with the case that's fine.”

Mr Amaral revealed he had written his controversial 2008 book 'The Truth of the Lie' based purely on official and public PJ files to answer his critics.

His best seller was the basis for the McCann’s civil libel suit against him. They claimed he told “poisonous lies” and hampered the global search for their daughter.

Last month the ex cop finally won on appeal the long-running libel battle, after Portugal’s Supreme Court judges ruled he had the right to “freedom of expression.”

He told Sabado that whilst missing Maddie’s case didn’t cause him anguish, the consequences had, saying: “The deprivation of my private life, the destabilisation of me as a person, the slander, defamation and  the chance of me having the professional career I wanted.”

He said Kate and Gerry were as much to blame for this as the authorities.

Mr Amaral believes the McCann’s were given “special treatment” in a crime that has intrigued the world because they “are British upper middle class professionals and their country doesn’t want to see doctors in particular making mistakes and being condemned for it.”

He claims British police got involved when the McCann’s were made “arguidos” or official suspects only to “help protect them.”

He hit out at the fact that samples from the holiday flat had to be sent to a forensic lab in the UK when they could so easily have been examined by experts in Portugal.

He said: “Perhaps they would have accused us of manipulating the final result. But we’re too honest.”

Mr Amaral accused the local authority, the PJ and public prosecutor of becoming “subservient” to the British ambassador to Portugal and UK powers-that-be in a politically-motivated action.

He senses a warning was given to the Portuguese that they must “not investigate anything that might compromise the parents or friends” as it would be “a mistake.”

He added: “Our Government felt intimidated by the UK. The error was the communication about the abduction.”

Mr Amaral is understood to have written a second book about Maddie which he hopes will be published soon.

Any accusations he has made against the McCanns’ in the past have been vehemently denied by the couple.

They were cleared by police as suspects in Maddie’s disappearance although in March Portuguese Supreme Court civil judges said they were not “formally in the clear.”

After winning his libel appeal Mr Amaral said:  “I’m pleased I have a court ruling which defends the freedom of expression.”

A lengthy interview with the ex cop is due to broadcast on Portugal’s Correio da Manhã TV on Monday, two days ahead of the decade anniversary.

Kate and Gerry cling onto a glimmer of hope that their daughter, who would now be aged 13, could still be alive and have vowed never to give up looking for her.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3436545/former-portuguese-cop-goncalo-amaral-whinges-the-mccanns-have-ruined-his-life-on-10th-anniversary-of-maddie-disappearance/

Says so much about a person able to think like that and it says even more about his support making excuses for him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 13, 2022, 05:44:53 PM
Well. no different to walt then....

The thing with GA is he knows what he was talking about ....he was there.

He wrote the book as fact....the mccs failed to have it banned.
Anyone who thinks amaral knows what he's talking about is seriously deluded. His book proves he hasn't got a clue with the amount of lies he tells. He says Eddie found a body under a flagstone in Jersey.His ignorance of the truth and the ignorance of his supporters is laughable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 05:57:43 PM
You know fine that wasn't what the post said.  But you have to ignore that to stay on message and back up Amaral on the "Stress and Pain" he has endured.

His timing was merde as always.

How is it possible to moan about the slings and arrows besetting YOU while badmouthing the parents of a missing child to mark the tenth anniversary of her disappearance.
The insensitivity of anyone doing that is just mind boggling!  Almost as mind boggling as anyone falling for that level of obscene insensibility.

The one thing Amaral is expert on is scapegoating and pansies.  After all he has been honing these skills in relation to blaming the McCanns for everything that has gone wrong in his life since the midwife skelped his arse.

'MY STRESS AND PAIN' Former Portuguese cop Goncalo Amaral whinges the McCanns have ruined HIS life on 10th anniversary of Maddie disappearance
The ex detective says his career and marriage broke down in the aftermath of the Maddie inquiry

Tracey Kandohla
28 Apr 2017

A FORMER Portuguese cop who the McCann’s failed to silence over claims they covered up their daughter’s accidental death now blames THEM for wrecking his career.

Goncalo Amaral also blasts Kate and Gerry for slandering him, undermining his work and disrupting his home life.

As the couple face the heartbreak 10th anniversary of Maddie’s disappearance in six days the ex detective has today spoken to a respected Portuguese magazine.

In further rants he accuses the British Government and Scotland Yard of interfering in the case, protecting Maddie’s parents and causing the Portuguese authorities to bow to pressure.

Mr Amaral talks about his own decade of “stress and pain” while the McCanns brace themselves for the milestone “horrible marker of time, stolen time.”

The former Policia Judiciaria inspector was booted off the bungled Maddie inquiry after criticising Met and Leicestershire police and later retired.

Now he's said: “A senior police officer’s career should not have been thrown away to defend a couple suspected at least of the child’s negligence that led to the disappearance.”

He said had every right to be critical of the Kate and Gerry and the system and insisted: “I should not have retired from the PJ. I should not have been allowed to have been put under so much pressure.

"The police did not defend me or my colleagues from the injury and insults targeted at us.”

Mr Amaral, whose marriage also broke down in the aftermath of the Maddie inquiry, accused his bosses of being pressurised and intimidated by British authorities who he believes were intent on “protecting” two wealthy middle class doctors.

Three-year-old Maddie vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal’s Praia da Luz in May 2007. She had been left alone with her younger twin siblings while her parents were dining nearby with pals.

Former GP Kate, 49, and renowned heart consultant Gerry, 48, from Rothley, Leics, believe their daughter was kidnapped during a burglary gone wrong or by child traffickers.

Mr Amaral, whose team investigated the missing girl’s case, claims she died in an accident in the rented flat by falling or by being given an overdose of sedatives and her parents later disposed of her body. He said there was never any proof she was snatched by intruders.

The divorcee, 57, told weekly news magazine Sabado: “It was almost a lack of respect to make the decision that she was abducted and make it public.”

He added: “It was not objectively looking at the process. If the investigation ever comes to an end and if it proves that the parents have nothing to do with the case that's fine.”

Mr Amaral revealed he had written his controversial 2008 book 'The Truth of the Lie' based purely on official and public PJ files to answer his critics.

His best seller was the basis for the McCann’s civil libel suit against him. They claimed he told “poisonous lies” and hampered the global search for their daughter.

Last month the ex cop finally won on appeal the long-running libel battle, after Portugal’s Supreme Court judges ruled he had the right to “freedom of expression.”

He told Sabado that whilst missing Maddie’s case didn’t cause him anguish, the consequences had, saying: “The deprivation of my private life, the destabilisation of me as a person, the slander, defamation and  the chance of me having the professional career I wanted.”

He said Kate and Gerry were as much to blame for this as the authorities.

Mr Amaral believes the McCann’s were given “special treatment” in a crime that has intrigued the world because they “are British upper middle class professionals and their country doesn’t want to see doctors in particular making mistakes and being condemned for it.”

He claims British police got involved when the McCann’s were made “arguidos” or official suspects only to “help protect them.”

He hit out at the fact that samples from the holiday flat had to be sent to a forensic lab in the UK when they could so easily have been examined by experts in Portugal.

He said: “Perhaps they would have accused us of manipulating the final result. But we’re too honest.”

Mr Amaral accused the local authority, the PJ and public prosecutor of becoming “subservient” to the British ambassador to Portugal and UK powers-that-be in a politically-motivated action.

He senses a warning was given to the Portuguese that they must “not investigate anything that might compromise the parents or friends” as it would be “a mistake.”

He added: “Our Government felt intimidated by the UK. The error was the communication about the abduction.”

Mr Amaral is understood to have written a second book about Maddie which he hopes will be published soon.

Any accusations he has made against the McCanns’ in the past have been vehemently denied by the couple.

They were cleared by police as suspects in Maddie’s disappearance although in March Portuguese Supreme Court civil judges said they were not “formally in the clear.”

After winning his libel appeal Mr Amaral said:  “I’m pleased I have a court ruling which defends the freedom of expression.”

A lengthy interview with the ex cop is due to broadcast on Portugal’s Correio da Manhã TV on Monday, two days ahead of the decade anniversary.

Kate and Gerry cling onto a glimmer of hope that their daughter, who would now be aged 13, could still be alive and have vowed never to give up looking for her.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3436545/former-portuguese-cop-goncalo-amaral-whinges-the-mccanns-have-ruined-his-life-on-10th-anniversary-of-maddie-disappearance/

Says so much about a person able to think like that and it says even more about his support making excuses for him.

The McCanns can't, imo, lay exclusive claim to sympathy. Other lives have been damaged by this case as well as theirs. Those who support them seem to have no sympathy for anyone else.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 13, 2022, 07:10:59 PM
Are you saying that it was the McCanns who were behind all the stories attacking Portugal and the PJ?
What on earth did I write that gave you that idea? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 13, 2022, 07:15:13 PM
The McCanns can't, imo, lay exclusive claim to sympathy. Other lives have been damaged by this case as well as theirs. Those who support them seem to have no sympathy for anyone else.
Absolute ballcocks.  I have sympathy for Murat and his family, for the Tapas group and their families, for many of those who worked at the OC and others who experienced disruption to their lives and livelihoods in PdL at the time, etc etc etc etc
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 13, 2022, 08:07:04 PM
The McCanns can't, imo, lay exclusive claim to sympathy. Other lives have been damaged by this case as well as theirs. Those who support them seem to have no sympathy for anyone else.

Amaral has with malice aforethought set out to do absolutely everything and anything in his power to do as much deliberate harm to his chosen victims.

This could at one time have been put down to stupidity or just plain incompetence.  But no longer.

Amaral's lies and extraordinary intervention in the German case against the paedophile, burglar and rapist the PJ allowed to slip through their fingers on Amaral's watch as coordinator of Madeleine's case - in my opinion suggests that Amaral merits some very close scrutiny indeed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2022, 08:57:51 PM
Absolute ballcocks.  I have sympathy for Murat and his family, for the Tapas group and their families, for many of those who worked at the OC and others who experienced disruption to their lives and livelihoods in PdL at the time, etc etc etc etc

It seems to me that your criticism of Amaral is a priority, as is your criticism of anyone and everyone who isn't convinced by the McCanns story. I can't say I've noticed much sympathy being expressed for anyone else but them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 13, 2022, 10:44:34 PM
It seems to me that your criticism of Amaral is a priority, as is your criticism of anyone and everyone who isn't convinced by the McCanns story. I can't say I've noticed much sympathy being expressed for anyone else but them.
LOL.  Criticising Amaral is way down on my priority list actually, probably below cleaning out my cutlery drawer and cutting my toenails.  But in any case, why should I have sympathy for him?  How much sympathy do you have for Kate and Gerry? Perhaps remind yourself that I think Madeleine was taken by a stranger to help you understand why I might be critical of Amaral and the PJ - now do you understand why I might be? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 13, 2022, 11:32:56 PM
Amaral has with malice aforethought set out to do absolutely everything and anything in his power to do as much deliberate harm to his chosen victims.

This could at one time have been put down to stupidity or just plain incompetence.  But no longer.

Amaral's lies and extraordinary intervention in the German case against the paedophile, burglar and rapist the PJ allowed to slip through their fingers on Amaral's watch as coordinator of Madeleine's case - in my opinion suggests that Amaral merits some very close scrutiny indeed.

I agree with that, especially the last paragraph and the more he does the more suspicious I become.  But The Portuguese Judiciary appear to be protecting him, so I doubt that it will come to anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 12:15:01 AM
It seems to me that your criticism of Amaral is a priority, as is your criticism of anyone and everyone who isn't convinced by the McCanns story. I can't say I've noticed much sympathy being expressed for anyone else but them.

It’s odd how emotionally invested certain individuals are in the downfall of a man that they have never met and has never done them any harm. With some it’s almost a visceral hatred.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 14, 2022, 01:07:57 AM
I am pretty certain that Kate did know.  That is why The Ambassador turned up so quickly.  In My Opinion.

Kate knew about the injustice of Leonor Ciprianos torture.   She also knew about the way that Leonor and Joao were (some would call it) stitched up with no evidence.  NO EVIDENCE

Leonors common law husband Leandro made sure that they and the World knew.   Brave man.   He got a beating up from Amaral for speaking out.

This is common knowledge to people with a long term interest in the case and will have been mentioned on this forum before.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 01:45:40 AM
I agree with that, especially the last paragraph and the more he does the more suspicious I become.  But The Portuguese Judiciary appear to be protecting him, so I doubt that it will come to anything.

There are instances when some issues have been dealt with after a fashion.  For example the total nastiness of his failed defamation action against Marcos Aragao Correia and Antonio Pedro Dores received short shrift.

Amaral actually attempted to have Marcos Aragao Correia committed to an asylum for the insane!!!  This is proof of one seriously vindictive and dangerous person to even think of such an action let alone to attempt to engineer it.

Amaral wants Leonor's lawyer committed Correio da Manha
Controversy: Former coordinator says lawyer has hallucinations

 
Manuela Teixeira / Tânia Laranjo
15 June 2009
Thanks to Joana Morais for translation
 
The former coordinator of the PJ, Goncalo Amaral, will request from the Public Ministry of Faro a series of psychiatric examinations and assessments into the personality of Marcos Aragao Correia, suggesting even that he is committed.

In the appendage to the criminal process for defamation against Leonor Cipriano's lawyer, Goncalo Amaral defends that the accused suffers from a 'pathological imbalance with traits of social dangerousness.'

With this appendage, Goncalo Amaral, wants to verify the non-imputability of the Madeiran lawyer, who supports Kate and Gerry McCanns' abduction thesis in the Maddie Case and who assumed the defence of Leonor Cipriano, Joana's mother, in the case of aggressions which saw five elements of the PJ sat at the defendants bench.
 
'Marcos Aragao seems, indeed, a permanent danger to himself and to others,' said Amaral in the document to the Public Ministry(PM).

Convinced that the examinations will prove the dangerousness of the lawyer, the former coordinator asks the PM for preventive measures to be applied.

'Dangerousness, which, if confirmed, may require appropriate and regular psychiatric monitoring, or ultimately the preventive commitment to a mental hospital.', refers the document.



WOW!!!  Bearing in mind that Amaral really did submit that document to the court my opinion is that there is definitely one seriously disturbed personality evidenced here.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 02:04:54 AM
Kate knew about the injustice of Leonor Ciprianos torture.   She also knew about the way that Leonor and Joao were (some would call it) stitched up with no evidence.  NO EVIDENCE

Leonors common law husband Leandro made sure that they and the World knew.   Brave man.   He got a beating up from Amaral for speaking out.

This is common knowledge to people with a long term interest in the case and will have been mentioned on this forum before.

'Portuguese police framed my wife'
By Andrew Johnson
July 02 2008

The husband of a woman jailed in Portugal for killing her child in a case with uncanny similarities to that of Madeleine McCann has spoken of his fear that Madeleine's parents may be framed for their daughter's murder.

Leonor Cipriano, 36, is serving a 16-year jail sentence following the disappearance of her daughter, Joana, nine, in September 2004, just seven miles from where Madeleine McCann vanished. The investigating officer was Detective Goncalo Amaral, now leading the McCann inquiry.

Yesterday, however, Leonor's husband, Leandro Silva, reiterated claims that his wife had been beaten by Mr Amaral during interrogation. Mr Amaral and four other officers were charged over the allegations. Despite this, he has not been removed from the McCann case.

"I am worried Kate McCann will be framed, the way it happened to my wife," Mr Silva said.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/portuguese-police-framed-my-wife-28437583.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on August 14, 2022, 04:43:35 AM
'Portuguese police framed my wife'
By Andrew Johnson
July 02 2008

The husband of a woman jailed in Portugal for killing her child in a case with uncanny similarities to that of Madeleine McCann has spoken of his fear that Madeleine's parents may be framed for their daughter's murder.

Leonor Cipriano, 36, is serving a 16-year jail sentence following the disappearance of her daughter, Joana, nine, in September 2004, just seven miles from where Madeleine McCann vanished. The investigating officer was Detective Goncalo Amaral, now leading the McCann inquiry.

Yesterday, however, Leonor's husband, Leandro Silva, reiterated claims that his wife had been beaten by Mr Amaral during interrogation. Mr Amaral and four other officers were charged over the allegations. Despite this, he has not been removed from the McCann case.

"I am worried Kate McCann will be framed, the way it happened to my wife," Mr Silva said.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/portuguese-police-framed-my-wife-28437583.html

I believe his wife admitted to the murder of her own daughter to save her brothers skin. In the end both she and the brother were convicted of murder and she had perjury added to the tally as well. Lying bitch!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 07:24:47 AM
It’s odd how emotionally invested certain individuals are in the downfall of a man that they have never met and has never done them any harm. With some it’s almost a visceral hatred.
OMG, the irony, it’s utterly amazing you can’t even see it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 08:12:58 AM
I believe his wife admitted to the murder of her own daughter to save her brothers skin. In the end both she and the brother were convicted of murder and she had perjury added to the tally as well. Lying bitch!

Having a bag over her head didn't help her to identify those who beat her up.

By why bring down the heavy mob from Lisbon in the first place?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2022, 08:43:19 AM
LOL.  Criticising Amaral is way down on my priority list actually, probably below cleaning out my cutlery drawer and cutting my toenails.  But in any case, why should I have sympathy for him?  How much sympathy do you have for Kate and Gerry? Perhaps remind yourself that I think Madeleine was taken by a stranger to help you understand why I might be critical of Amaral and the PJ - now do you understand why I might be?

Of course I have sympathy for the McCanns. Whatever happened to their daughter they lost her and went through a traumatic time. Amaral also sympathised;

Mr Amaral, 48, told a press conference in Portugal he sympathised with their pain and admitted there had been failings in the 14-month search for the girl, who vanished from her parents' rented holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3 last year.
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/we-failed-says-maddie-police-chief-but-he-refuses-to-apologise-to-her-parents-6887323.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2022, 09:57:43 AM
It’s odd how emotionally invested certain individuals are in the downfall of a man that they have never met and has never done them any harm. With some it’s almost a visceral hatred.

It's all so simple for some. Amaral didn't believe the innocent, well educated, upstanding, loving parents, so he deserves to be hated and destroyed.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 14, 2022, 10:24:27 AM
It's all so simple for some. Amaral didn't believe the innocent, well educated, upstanding, loving parents, so he deserves to be hated and destroyed.

Total junk....we are used to it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 10:35:39 AM
Total junk....we are used to it

I thought it was rather funny.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 11:22:14 AM
It's all so simple for some. Amaral didn't believe the innocent, well educated, upstanding, loving parents, so he deserves to be hated and destroyed.

Indeed but from the diligences carried out after Amaral was removed from the investigation it appears Rebelo didn’t believe they were innocent either yet he avoids the vitriol directed at Amaral. Most odd.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 11:39:07 AM
Indeed but from the diligences carried out after Amaral was removed from the investigation it appears Rebelo didn’t believe they were innocent either yet he avoids the vitriol directed at Amaral. Most odd.

I think we might need a Cite for that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 14, 2022, 11:44:14 AM
I think we might need a Cite for that.

No, we don't do that anymore, davel set the precedent.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2022, 12:19:48 PM
I think we might need a Cite for that.

The letter of request sent by the public prosecutor to the UK asking for rogatory interviews to take place explains what the investigators were thinking in December 2007. It makes clear that the investigation was still not satisfied with the inconsistencies in the groups account of the happenings of May 3rd, and they still feel the need to confirm the offered timeline.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RESPONSE-ROGATORY.htm


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 12:24:41 PM
The letter of request sent by the public prosecutor to the UK asking for rogatory interviews to take place explains what the investigators were thinking in December 2007. It makes clear that the investigation was still not satisfied with the inconsistencies in the groups account of the happenings of May 3rd, and they still feel the need to confirm the offered timeline.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RESPONSE-ROGATORY.htm

Is that The Rogatory Interviews that Rebelo bailed out of half way through and before David Payne was even heard?

More Leaks from The PJ I believe.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 12:48:47 PM
Is that The Rogatory Interviews that Rebelo bailed out of half way through and before David Payne was even heard?

More Leaks from The PJ I believe.

Does it matter? Rebelo was not satisfied with the evidence before him from the parents and their friends. That’s two senior investigators who had misgivings…Amaral obviously was not a lone voice and no matter what his faults, and there were many, it’s disingenuous to suggest that he was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 12:54:38 PM
Does it matter? Rebelo was not satisfied with the evidence before him from the parents and their friends. That’s two senior investigators who had misgivings…Amaral obviously was not a lone voice and no matter what his faults, and there were many, it’s disingenuous to suggest that he was.

From what I gathered, Rebelo didn't know what was going on, due to the mess left behind by Amaral when he was sacked.

So not quite the same thing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 14, 2022, 12:55:13 PM
Anyone who thinks amaral knows what he's talking about is seriously deluded. His book proves he hasn't got a clue with the amount of lies he tells. He says Eddie found a body under a flagstone in Jersey.His ignorance of the truth and the ignorance of his supporters is laughable

Anyone who thinks amaral knows what he's talking about is seriously deluded.

Not at all - only in your opinion, look at the Tens of thousands raised in UK for his defence against the mccs.

GA believes the mccs were involved ....even to this day - there has been nothing to prove him wrong.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 12:57:24 PM
Indeed but from the diligences carried out after Amaral was removed from the investigation it appears Rebelo didn’t believe they were innocent either yet he avoids the vitriol directed at Amaral. Most odd.
That's because Rebelo had the decency not to make a career out of the missing child and because he wasn't a liar with a criminal conviction. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2022, 01:19:50 PM
Is that The Rogatory Interviews that Rebelo bailed out of half way through and before David Payne was even heard?

More Leaks from The PJ I believe.

Alleged leaks. The alleged contents differed from the actual contents of the original documents, so wherever they came from it wasn't the PJ files imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 01:26:45 PM
Alleged leaks. The alleged contents differed from the actual contents of the original documents, so wherever they came from it wasn't the PJ files imo.

Rebelo certainly took off back to Portugal at a rate of knots and half way through The Rogatories.  Rebelo thought he had put a stop to The Leaks, but apparently not.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2022, 01:36:43 PM
Rebelo certainly took off back to Portugal at a rate of knots and half way through The Rogatories.  Rebelo thought he had put a stop to The Leaks, but apparently not.

The evidence says the PJ did not leak the McCanns statements.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Alleged leaks. The alleged contents differed from the actual contents of the original documents, so wherever they came from it wasn't the PJ files imo.
Are you still under the impression it was the McCanns who leaked despite the fact they had absolutely nothing to gain from doing so?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 01:38:01 PM
The evidence says the PJ did not leak the McCanns statements.
No it doesn't, all it says is - that the documents were not leaked verbatim but the info contained was probably re-written or recapped from memory by a member of the PJ leaking to the media.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
That's because Rebelo had the decency not to make a career out of the missing child and because he wasn't a liar with a criminal conviction.

So it was OK that he didn't believe the abduction story?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 01:43:28 PM
The evidence says the PJ did not leak the McCanns statements.

Who said anything about The McCann Statements?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 01:44:56 PM
So it was OK that he didn't believe the abduction story?

Who said Rebelo didn't believe the Abduction Story?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2022, 01:55:40 PM
No it doesn't, all it says is - that the documents were not leaked verbatim but the info contained was probably re-written or recapped from memory by a member of the PJ leaking to the media.

I think the TV station could have clarified the matter by producing these statements. Perhaps they couldn't?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 02:03:07 PM

Rebelo was sent in to sort out the mess left by Amaral and to stop the leaks.

As far as I know he has never expressed an opinion.  But the he wouldn't would he.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 14, 2022, 02:08:35 PM
Does it matter? Rebelo was not satisfied with the evidence before him from the parents and their friends. That’s two senior investigators who had misgivings…Amaral obviously was not a lone voice and no matter what his faults, and there were many, it’s disingenuous to suggest that he was.
The portuguese dint understand the evidence....alerts and dna. Anyon ewho was stupid enough to beleive the alerts proved Maddies death in the apartment...as most sceptics do.....would think the Mccanns guilty
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 14, 2022, 02:24:37 PM
The portuguese dint understand the evidence....alerts and dna. Anyon ewho was stupid enough to beleive the alerts proved Maddies death in the apartment...as most sceptics do.....would think the Mccanns guilty

I think that would go more for Wolters ...and his so called concrete evidence



IMO I think Goncalo Amaral came to a sensible conclusion at that time in the investigation. As he has said numerous times, the investigation was not allowed to run it's course and test certain theories to the end. His hypothesis may have changed had other information come to light.

How is that so hard to understand?  I think he was close with his theory and allowed to carry on his investigation unhindered, would have uncovered more detail of what happened.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 02:32:32 PM
From what I gathered, Rebelo didn't know what was going on, due to the mess left behind by Amaral when he was sacked.

So not quite the same thing.

Ah yes, the notorious newspaper headline from ‘reports’.

Yet by October Rebelo had approached Amaral and was swapping notes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490855/Now-Madeleine-police-turn-disgraced-detective-help.html

Ah well you pays your money….!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 02:35:45 PM
Ah yes, the notorious newspaper headline from ‘reports’.

Yet by October Rebelo had approached Amaral and was swapping notes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490855/Now-Madeleine-police-turn-disgraced-detective-help.html

Ah well you pays your money….!

I expect he needed help.  Who else could explain Amaral's bizarre filing system?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 02:57:35 PM
So it was OK that he didn't believe the abduction story?
It’s OK by me, he can believe the McCanns are lizard people for all I care, just so long as he doesn’t go out of his way to spread defamatory stories about them for money nor stitch them up with false evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 02:58:12 PM
I think the TV station could have clarified the matter by producing these statements. Perhaps they couldn't?
Perhaps not.  And?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 03:00:46 PM
Ah yes, the notorious newspaper headline from ‘reports’.

Yet by October Rebelo had approached Amaral and was swapping notes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490855/Now-Madeleine-police-turn-disgraced-detective-help.html

Ah well you pays your money….!
By your own criteria we must sneer at unnamed police sources who in any case reveal nothing so much as

: "At the moment all the evidence that was collected by the original investigation team is being re-evaluated."

No ca-ca Kojak!  The rest is made up remember?  It’s the Daily Mail and we must not believe a word they write about anything ever.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 03:02:56 PM
I believe his wife admitted to the murder of her own daughter to save her brothers skin. In the end both she and the brother were convicted of murder and she had perjury added to the tally as well. Lying bitch!
In my opinion there is only one "Lying Bitch!" throughout this sordid saga and he is the one who got off very lightly for the inhumane treatment meted out to the prisoner who was in his charge for two days and who was tortured for two days to her extreme injury.

Leonor Cipriano was tortured not only on Amaral's watch but while he was present in the building having supplied two instruments of torture masquerading as glass ashtrays.. 

Leonor Cipriano's Account
Meanwhile, and in the absence of any evidence, the five officers involved became aggressive, shouted and unsuccessfully tried to convince her to confess, after which the torture began.

Two glass ashtrays were placed on the floor, and Leonor was forced to kneel on them, without being allowed to get up until she confessed.
She showed Correia the scars on her knees, still visible four years later.

She was then sat on a chair with a green plastic shopping bag over her head, and officers started striking her on the head with a cardboard tube, causing her haemorrhages resulting in blood descending to her eyes, and her hands were struck when she tried to take the bag off her head.

She was told that she would not get out of there until she confessed, and was made to stand, sometimes with the bag on her head and sometimes without it, and punched and kicked on the side of her ribs, repeatedly.

The torture lasted for two days, after which she signed a confession, and she was then returned to prison, where her serious conditions led to her being taken to Odemira health centre.

She was told by judicial police officers to tell the doctor that she had thrown herself down a flight of stairs in the Faro judicial police headquarters in a suicide attempt, threatening that if she spoke of any aggression, she would be interrogated again and would not survive.

Cipriano said she did as they demanded in their presence, but told the prison officers and director of the prison what had happened once they left.

The director ordered photographs to be taken of her, and for a legal-medical report to be drawn up as a result of her poor conditions.


The Prison Director's Account
Correia then spoke to Odemira prison director Ana Maria Calado, who confirmed Leonor Cipriano's account, noting how shocked she was about her conditions, with black marks, haematomae and bruising in her face, mainly around her eyes, her head and ribs, mainly on her sides.

She assured that the physical marks clearly indicated a violent aggression and not a fall down some stairs, something the legal-medical report also confirmed.

She noted that Cipriano's conditions worsened a week after she was tortured, as the blood that had gathered at the height of her brows was so much that it ended up falling over her eyes, leaving her practically blind for almost a month, and the director regrets not having ordered photographs of this period to be taken.
 
Calado expressed her surprise for a number of facts:
a) that the judicial police did not take Cipriano to a health centre in Faro to certify that she had fallen down some stairs;
b) that the day of her interrogation was chosen during Calado's week of holidays, when she would never have allowed her to be picked up at 6 a.m. without a formal request by the judicial police; and
c) that judicial police officers who arrived from Lisbon to investigate the allegations of torture proposed sharing the blame between the judicial police and prison, something she refused.

https://www.statewatch.org/news/2008/may/portugal-report-on-torture-suffered-by-leonor-cipriano/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 03:07:27 PM
I thought it was rather funny.

I just find it tedious.

Opinionated pronouncements are made repetitiously lacking nothing but supporting evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 14, 2022, 03:08:16 PM
I think that would go more for Wolters ...and his so called concrete evidence



IMO I think Goncalo Amaral came to a sensible conclusion at that time in the investigation. As he has said numerous times, the investigation was not allowed to run it's course and test certain theories to the end. His hypothesis may have changed had other information come to light.

How is that so hard to understand?  I think he was close with his theory and allowed to carry on his investigation unhindered, would have uncovered more detail of what happened.

As I've said..amaral was deluded ....fact not opinion..no more to say
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 14, 2022, 03:10:47 PM
As I've said..amaral was deluded ....fact not opinion..no more to say

and how's the case against Brueckner going?
Has Wolters revealed the concrete evidence yet?
Does he even have any?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 03:24:20 PM
From what I gathered, Rebelo didn't know what was going on, due to the mess left behind by Amaral when he was sacked.

So not quite the same thing.

Don't you just love the way sceptics have to rewrite history to make their points.  Rebelo was faced with a monumental mess on takeover from Amaral; it is only thanks to him that they have had files to play with over the years as he had to waste resources digitising and trying to make sense of loose paperwork lying about all over the place!

Madeleine: New police chief's fury over the mess he inherited from his predecessor
By IAN GALLAGHER

Last updated at 22 October 2007


Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief leading the Madeleine McCann investigation, is furious at how it was left in disarray by his predecessor.

According to reports, officers have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around on scraps of paper and following leads ignored by police working under Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral.
------------------------------------------------
Meanwhile, a police source quoted in a Portuguese newspaper said: "There was important material lying all over the place that hadn't been considered by investigators.

"A lot of key information was discarded. The whole process is being reviewed. Putting all the papers in order has been a massive task."

Officers have been working round-the-clock to log on to a computer all information relating to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine from the holiday complex in May.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488802/Madeleine-New-police-chiefs-fury-mess-inherited-predecessor.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 14, 2022, 03:24:59 PM
and how's the case against Brueckner going?
Has Wolters revealed the concrete evidence yet?
Does he even have any?

Reveal the first so called investigation first before anyone else mate.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on August 14, 2022, 03:39:29 PM
I think that would go more for Wolters ...and his so called concrete evidence



IMO I think Goncalo Amaral came to a sensible conclusion at that time in the investigation. As he has said numerous times, the investigation was not allowed to run it's course and test certain theories to the end. His hypothesis may have changed had other information come to light.

How is that so hard to understand?  I think he was close with his theory and allowed to carry on his investigation unhindered, would have uncovered more detail of what happened.

I agree with you, Amaral being removed from the investigation for speaking out against the British police was politically engineered. This should not have happened imho.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 03:41:00 PM
Don't you just love the way sceptics have to rewrite history to make their points.  Rebelo was faced with a monumental mess on takeover from Amaral; it is only thanks to him that they have had files to play with over the years as he had to waste resources digitising and trying to make sense of loose paperwork lying about all over the place!

Madeleine: New police chief's fury over the mess he inherited from his predecessor
By IAN GALLAGHER

Last updated at 22 October 2007


Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief leading the Madeleine McCann investigation, is furious at how it was left in disarray by his predecessor.

According to reports, officers have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around on scraps of paper and following leads ignored by police working under Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral.
------------------------------------------------
Meanwhile, a police source quoted in a Portuguese newspaper said: "There was important material lying all over the place that hadn't been considered by investigators.

"A lot of key information was discarded. The whole process is being reviewed. Putting all the papers in order has been a massive task."

Officers have been working round-the-clock to log on to a computer all information relating to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine from the holiday complex in May.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488802/Madeleine-New-police-chiefs-fury-mess-inherited-predecessor.html

Perhaps it would be beneficial for you to read what has already been posted Brietta then there’d be no possibility of you duplicating it?

Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 03:47:33 PM
Rebelo certainly took off back to Portugal at a rate of knots and half way through The Rogatories.  Rebelo thought he had put a stop to The Leaks, but apparently not.

What mystifies me is the inability to differentiate between the Amaral theses fiascos and the Rebelo police investigation.

Of course Rebelo was going to investigate the parents and those closest to Madeleine in the first instance.  That's what good cops do for elimination purposes.

He brought accredited Portuguese experts with him to check again all the initial processes.

It is the naivety of the thinking that there was a seamless takeover from one administration to the other.  There wasn't.
We've seen Rebelo with his team checking the evidence and detectives climbing through Madeleine's bedroom window exiting carrying a bundle.

I think the leaks - in particular the one Rebelo had to return to Portugal to address - shows there was some sort of turf war going on which didn't care what collateral damage it was doing to investigate Madeleine's abduction.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 03:50:49 PM
Who said Rebelo didn't believe the Abduction Story?

 Gunit ?

Maybe she might consider supplying a cite for that because I've certainly never seen one!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 14, 2022, 03:51:56 PM
I agree with you, Amaral being removed from the investigation for speaking out against the British police was politically engineered. This should not have happened imho.

More likely removed for being totally incompetent.imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 03:53:46 PM
I think the TV station could have clarified the matter by producing these statements. Perhaps they couldn't?

This is the Amaral thread.  Are you suggesting that Amaral was behind the leaks which brought Rebelo back to Portugal?
If not ... please endeavour to get back on track.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 03:58:30 PM
I think that would go more for Wolters ...and his so called concrete evidence



IMO I think Goncalo Amaral came to a sensible conclusion at that time in the investigation. As he has said numerous times, the investigation was not allowed to run it's course and test certain theories to the end. His hypothesis may have changed had other information come to light.

How is that so hard to understand?  I think he was close with his theory and allowed to carry on his investigation unhindered, would have uncovered more detail of what happened.

Your post is irrational.

Or is it your contention that the evidence you and Amaral think would solve the case somehow vanished after he was sacked?

Please explain what it was.

Please explain what happened to it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 04:08:55 PM
I think that would go more for Wolters ...and his so called concrete evidence



IMO I think Goncalo Amaral came to a sensible conclusion at that time in the investigation. As he has said numerous times, the investigation was not allowed to run it's course and test certain theories to the end. His hypothesis may have changed had other information come to light.

How is that so hard to understand?  I think he was close with his theory and allowed to carry on his investigation unhindered, would have uncovered more detail of what happened.
Apparently Rebelo was so desperate for Amaral’s input he had loads of meetings with him to try and solve the case so why didn’t Amaral point him in the right direction and produce a few of those aces he had up his sleeve? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 05:08:14 PM
14 years and 7 months after Amaral was removed from the case and he’s still living rent free in some individual’s minds.

That’s the power of the man.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 05:10:34 PM
14 years and 7 months after Amaral was removed from the case and he’s still living rent free in some individual’s minds.

That’s the power of the man.

His father died and left him his house.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 05:21:46 PM
His father died and left him his house.

Pardon?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 05:28:08 PM
Pardon?

Amaral's father died and left him the house.  The father's house.  But he was a sitting tenant at the time of his father's death.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 05:33:14 PM
14 years and 7 months after Amaral was removed from the case and he’s still living rent free in some individual’s minds.

That’s the power of the man.
Another hugely ironic post from the Mistress of Unintended Irony. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 05:41:51 PM
Amaral's father died and left him the house.  The father's house.  But he was a sitting tenant at the time of his father's death.

Apologies Eleanor I don’t see the connection between that and my post.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on August 14, 2022, 05:42:19 PM
14 years and 7 months after Amaral was removed from the case and he’s still living rent free in some individual’s minds.

That’s the power of the man.

He's more like the unwelcome relative who turns up at birthday parties, demanding attention.
Intermittent media appearances (for remuneration, no doubt) are littered with far-fetched revelations and new books about the case. Quite fascinating, in a macabre sort of way.
Wolters has him rattled imo. Perhaps Amaral even gets a mention in Das Buch 1 or 2.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 05:46:25 PM
Apologies Eleanor I don’t see the connection between that and my post.
I think Eleanor was having a little joke with you dear, it’s called having a sense of humour.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 05:47:01 PM
Apologies Eleanor I don’t see the connection between that and my post.

Living Rent Free.  He is.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 05:49:02 PM
Living Rent Free.  He is.
In our minds apparently.  I’m going to start charging him now that this has been brought to my attention.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 14, 2022, 05:58:21 PM
In our minds apparently.  I’m going to start charging him now that this has been brought to my attention.

No, he really is living rent free.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 06:00:58 PM
He's more like the unwelcome relative who turns up at birthday parties, demanding attention.
Intermittent media appearances (for remuneration, no doubt) are littered with far-fetched revelations and new books about the case. Quite fascinating, in a macabre sort of way.
Wolters has him rattled imo. Perhaps Amaral even gets a mention in Das Buch 1 or 2.

Like that unwelcome relative wouldn’t the best thing be to ignore him? Surely you and people who continue to give him relevance are the real problem?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 06:02:07 PM
Living Rent Free.  He is.

Okay.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on August 14, 2022, 06:09:52 PM
Like that unwelcome relative wouldn’t the best thing be to ignore him? Surely you and people who continue to give him relevance are the real problem?

Fulscher gave Amaral relevance by discussing Brueckner and the case with him in Portugal in 2020. I don't think that's worth ignoring.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 14, 2022, 06:28:50 PM
Like that unwelcome relative wouldn’t the best thing be to ignore him? Surely you and people who continue to give him relevance are the real problem?
No, we are not the problem, we are simply shooting the breeze on a pretty insignificant internet forum.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 14, 2022, 06:35:03 PM
No, we are not the problem, we are simply shooting the breeze on a pretty insignificant internet forum.

Nothing to talk about regarding Brueckner, Wolters has hit a total dead end there, so supporters might as well retreat to the safety haven of Amaral bashing I suppose.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 07:21:48 PM
Fulscher gave Amaral relevance by discussing Brueckner and the case with him in Portugal in 2020. I don't think that's worth ignoring.

Why?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 14, 2022, 09:29:01 PM
Fulscher gave Amaral relevance by discussing Brueckner and the case with him in Portugal in 2020. I don't think that's worth ignoring.

Mr Fulscher is known to have met with Amaral in Lisbon on at least two occasions to discuss the case.

I find that quite extraordinary and certainly interesting.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 14, 2022, 11:50:01 PM
Mr Fulscher is known to have met with Amaral in Lisbon on at least two occasions to discuss the case.

I find that quite extraordinary and certainly interesting.

Considering his expertise in the case I’d find it extraordinary if he hadn’t wished to talk with Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on August 15, 2022, 12:54:04 AM
Considering his expertise in the case I’d find it extraordinary if he hadn’t wished to talk with Amaral.

Amaral had no expertise whatsoever in relation to Brueckner the person or Brueckner's alleged involvement in Madeleine's abduction/murder - unless you know otherwise.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2022, 06:41:02 AM
Amaral had no expertise whatsoever in relation to Brueckner the person or Brueckner's alleged involvement in Madeleine's abduction/murder - unless you know otherwise.

If I were Brueckner's lawyer I'd definitely be interested in speaking to Amaral. He was there at the beginning and says there's no evidence that Madeleine was abducted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 15, 2022, 07:08:32 AM
If I were Brueckner's lawyer I'd definitely be interested in speaking to Amaral. He was there at the beginning and says there's no evidence that Madeleine was abducted.
Then they are both idiots.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 15, 2022, 07:12:31 AM
Then they are both idiots.

With a bit of desperation thrown in.  Perhaps Fulscher wanted to discuss the dreadlocks and cartoons on the van.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 15, 2022, 08:11:01 AM
Then they are both idiots.

The 3 investigative forces aren't having much luck proving them wrong.
But maybe tomorrow aye.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 15, 2022, 08:41:32 AM
Considering his expertise in the case I’d find it extraordinary if he hadn’t wished to talk with Amaral.
If I recall correctly, an example of Amaral’s expertise in this case is his claim that it would be impossible to break into Apartment 5a  *%87
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 15, 2022, 09:09:35 AM
With a bit of desperation thrown in.  Perhaps Fulscher wanted to discuss the dreadlocks and cartoons on the van.

Fulscher has been asking to see the concrete evidence, Brueckner is challenging Wolters to bring charges.
Doesn't seem particularly desperate to me. Quite the opposite in fact, & Wolters can't see Brueckner being charged anytime in the foreseeable future. But yeah OK.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2022, 09:20:21 AM
Then they are both idiots.

I don't think it's idiotic to listen to what people have to say; listening to just one point of view is what's idiotic imo. Neither is Amaral an idiot; it wasn't him who had to pay the costs for a long running defamation trial.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 15, 2022, 09:23:33 AM
I don't think it's idiotic to listen to what people have to say; listening to just one point of view is what's idiotic imo. Neither is Amaral an idiot; it wasn't him who had to pay the costs for a long running defamation trial.

Amaral paid his own costs up front, as is the rule.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 15, 2022, 09:23:56 AM
I don't think it's idiotic to listen to what people have to say; listening to just one point of view is what's idiotic imo. Neither is Amaral an idiot; it wasn't him who had to pay the costs for a long running defamation trial.

Amaral clearly did not understand the evidence. fact not opinion. The interim report decided the mccanns were guilty.

His poor understanding clearly shows he had no expertise in the case. I can imagine what he told FF...its laughable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 15, 2022, 09:24:58 AM
I don't think it's idiotic to listen to what people have to say; listening to just one point of view is what's idiotic imo. Neither is Amaral an idiot; it wasn't him who had to pay the costs for a long running defamation trial.
As for the defamation case...it may well be shown the SC was incompetent too
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 15, 2022, 09:25:46 AM
If I were Brueckner's lawyer I'd definitely be interested in speaking to Amaral. He was there at the beginning and says there's no evidence that Madeleine was abducted.

Fulscher has nothing to work with.
He has Brueckners partial alibi for the night of 'the abduction' & no evidence Maddie was ever abducted in the first place, apart from because the McCanns said so.
Certainly, SY the PJ & Wolters are yet to reveal any abduction evidence to Fulscher, & can't see themselves doing so any time in the foreseeable future, so maybe there just isn't any.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2022, 09:49:38 AM
Amaral paid his own costs up front, as is the rule.

Do you think that makes a difference? The McCanns paid theirs up front too, but they wanted Amaral to reimburse them;

To pay the court fees, including the fees of its authorized representatives
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 15, 2022, 10:10:42 AM
Do you think that makes a difference? The McCanns paid theirs up front too, but they wanted Amaral to reimburse them;

To pay the court fees, including the fees of its authorized representatives
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0

Someone or two will claim it back when the case is resolved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 15, 2022, 10:22:34 AM
I don't think it's idiotic to listen to what people have to say; listening to just one point of view is what's idiotic imo. Neither is Amaral an idiot; it wasn't him who had to pay the costs for a long running defamation trial.
There is IMO literally nothing Amaral can tell Fulscher to help his client (unless he really has kept a secret ace up his sleeve for the last 15 years or can actually provide his client with a cast iron alibi - v. doubtful indeed!)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 15, 2022, 10:52:32 AM
As for the defamation case...it may well be shown the SC was incompetent too

You still on about that, its no where near being heard, so keep your powder well and truly dry for years to come, imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 15, 2022, 10:53:45 AM
Then they are both idiots.

They speak so highly of you too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 15, 2022, 10:56:21 AM
There is IMO literally nothing Amaral can tell Fulscher to help his client (unless he really has kept a secret ace up his sleeve for the last 15 years or can actually provide his client with a cast iron alibi - v. doubtful indeed!)

Looks like Fulscher's client doesn't actually need any help, because Wolters won't be charging him any time in the foreseeable future imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 15, 2022, 10:57:11 AM
Fulscher gave Amaral relevance by discussing Brueckner and the case with him in Portugal in 2020. I don't think that's worth ignoring.

Why shouldn't they meet ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 15, 2022, 10:57:31 AM
There is IMO literally nothing Amaral can tell Fulscher to help his client (unless he really has kept a secret ace up his sleeve for the last 15 years or can actually provide his client with a cast iron alibi - v. doubtful indeed!)

Accuse mccann not amswering questions but not bruckner as an arguido lol
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 15, 2022, 11:00:22 AM
Accuse mccann not amswering questions but not bruckner as an arguido lol

Short and Sweet.  And entirely to The Point.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 15, 2022, 11:01:33 AM
Accuse mccann not amswering questions but not bruckner as an arguido lol

Doesn't seem to have made any difference does it, Brueckner failing to provide an alibi.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 15, 2022, 11:16:55 AM
Doesn't seem to have made any difference does it, Brueckner failing to provide an alibi.

Well their is no alibi. Am sure ff advised him to say no comment, purely because he had no real alibi. In terms of kate she already answered questions once or twice as a witness on what happened and an estimated timeline. None of the questions were aimed at finding madeleine you must be 4 years old to think those questions were aimed 'really' at that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 15, 2022, 11:19:38 AM
Well their is no alibi. Am sure ff advised him to say no comment, purely because he had no real alibi. In terms of kate she already answered questions once or twice as a witness on what happened and an estimated timeline. None of the questions were aimed at finding madeleine you must be 4 years old to think those questions were aimed 'really' at that.

No alibi for an abduction no one can prove actually happened.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 15, 2022, 11:21:35 AM
If I were Brueckner's lawyer I'd definitely be interested in speaking to Amaral. He was there at the beginning and says there's no evidence that Madeleine was abducted.

He wasn't there quite at the beginning though was he.

His criticisms of the forensic team are on record starting with no photographs taken of witnesses and ending with the dusting of the outside shutter.  What isn't on record are the the samples taken at the scene which were corrupted and lost as a result.

What isn't on record either are the bagged bedclothes from Madeleine's bed.  Removed and washed by the cleaners allowed into the apartment.

There is little evidence that Madeleine was abducted because what evidence there was was lost much of it though incompetence and contamination.  Dog hair - first responder fingerprints (therefore no gloves) - cigarette ash dropped by the police (therefore no ashtrays).
Not forgetting the cigarette ends totally ignored ~ must have known the Irish teen of legend who saw everything apparently, had left them behind.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 15, 2022, 11:27:14 AM
He wasn't there quite at the beginning though was he.

His criticisms of the forensic team are on record starting with no photographs taken of witnesses and ending with the dusting of the outside shutter.  What isn't on record are the the samples taken at the scene which were corrupted and lost as a result.

What isn't on record either are the bagged bedclothes from Madeleine's bed.  Removed and washed by the cleaners allowed into the apartment.

There is little evidence that Madeleine was abducted because what evidence there was was lost much of it though incompetence and contamination.  Dog hair - first responder fingerprints (therefore no gloves) - cigarette ash dropped by the police (therefore no ashtrays).
Not forgetting the cigarette ends totally ignored ~ must have known the Irish teen of legend who saw everything apparently, had left them behind.

Or maybe she just wasn't abducted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 15, 2022, 11:29:35 AM
Then they are both idiots.

I honestly don't think they are.

The lawyer intrigues me.  Was he the 'duty solicitor?'  Is he appointed by the State?  Does his firm do a lot of pro bono work?  If none of these, who is paying him?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 15, 2022, 11:32:01 AM
I honestly don't think they are.

The lawyer intrigues me.  Was he the 'duty solicitor?'  Is he appointed by the State?  Does his firm do a lot of pro bono work?  If none of these, who is paying him?

Whoever it is, it isn't costing them much at the moment
 since Brueckner isn't being charged anytime in the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 15, 2022, 11:34:27 AM
I honestly don't think they are.

The lawyer intrigues me.  Was he the 'duty solicitor?'  Is he appointed by the State?  Does his firm do a lot of pro bono work?  If none of these, who is paying him?

Fame and Inglory will pay him I expect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 15, 2022, 11:44:59 AM
I don't think it's idiotic to listen to what people have to say; listening to just one point of view is what's idiotic imo. Neither is Amaral an idiot; it wasn't him who had to pay the costs for a long running defamation trial.

By your argument advocating what constitutes 'idiocy'.

It would be pertinent to bear in mind that all costs had to be paid by Amaral as a result of losing his defamation action raised against Marcos Aragão Correia and António Pedro Dores
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2022, 11:54:53 AM
Well their is no alibi. Am sure ff advised him to say no comment, purely because he had no real alibi. In terms of kate she already answered questions once or twice as a witness on what happened and an estimated timeline. None of the questions were aimed at finding madeleine you must be 4 years old to think those questions were aimed 'really' at that.

Of course they weren’t aimed at finding Madeleine, why would they be? The questions put to Brueckner won’t be about finding Madeleine either. The McCanns were suspects in their child’s disappearance as Brueckner is now. Suspects do not decide which questions they want to be asked to feed their chosen narrative.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2022, 01:13:15 PM
Well their is no alibi. Am sure ff advised him to say no comment, purely because he had no real alibi. In terms of kate she already answered questions once or twice as a witness on what happened and an estimated timeline. None of the questions were aimed at finding madeleine you must be 4 years old to think those questions were aimed 'really' at that.

Kate McCann was interviewed as a witness by the PJ on 4th May and 6th September 2007. She was also interviewed off the record, she says, by Neves and Encarnacao on 8th August, where they tried to get her to confess to something. Imo she was left in no doubt that their questions were not aimed at finding Madeleine.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 15, 2022, 01:20:13 PM
Well their is no alibi. Am sure ff advised him to say no comment, purely because he had no real alibi. In terms of kate she already answered questions once or twice as a witness on what happened and an estimated timeline. None of the questions were aimed at finding madeleine you must be 4 years old to think those questions were aimed 'really' at that.

The BKA aren't looking for Madeleine, they are looking for her remains, not sure where though, but Wolters admits to not knowing where, when and how his suspect killed Madeleine. So all in all starting with Amaral, through to Wolters via Redwood, Wall and all in between no one knows the whereabouts of her remains.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 15, 2022, 01:21:55 PM
Nothing to talk about regarding Brueckner, Wolters has hit a total dead end there, so supporters might as well retreat to the safety haven of Amaral bashing I suppose.

You're not seeing it, its Amarals fault they can't find the evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 15, 2022, 03:40:33 PM
Kate McCann was interviewed as a witness by the PJ on 4th May and 6th September 2007. She was also interviewed off the record, she says, by Neves and Encarnacao on 8th August, where they tried to get her to confess to something. Imo she was left in no doubt that their questions were not aimed at finding Madeleine.

Kate was under no illusion - as you rightly point out - that the Portuguese police and their case coordinator Amaral were no longer asking questions aimed to finding Madeleine or at the least what had happened to her.

That had not been their objective for quite some time - if it ever was.

Amaral's theory pointed the finger of accusation at Madeleine's parents.  Prosecuting them was the be all and end all of "proving" Amaral's theory.

A tried and tested investigative technique is following the evidence which indicates the path leading to a conclusion.

It doesn't work if investigators invent a theory then try to fit evidence to suit particularly if there was no evidence or radically misinterpreted evidence to be had in the first instance.                       

Amaral doesn't know that.  But everyone else does.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 15, 2022, 03:42:56 PM
They speak so highly of you too.
Quite rightly too!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 15, 2022, 03:45:09 PM
Kate McCann was interviewed as a witness by the PJ on 4th May and 6th September 2007. She was also interviewed off the record, she says, by Neves and Encarnacao on 8th August, where they tried to get her to confess to something. Imo she was left in no doubt that their questions were not aimed at finding Madeleine.
And your point is?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 15, 2022, 05:13:44 PM
I honestly don't think they are.

The lawyer intrigues me.  Was he the 'duty solicitor?'  Is he appointed by the State?  Does his firm do a lot of pro bono work?  If none of these, who is paying him?

Who is paying him?

Nail on the head.  Well done, Brie.

He is reported to be a very good solicitor, so likely to be very expensive.   How would a fairly simple guy like CB find such a high level solicitor too?    *%6^



Who is paying him and why?   $65*

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 15, 2022, 07:50:17 PM
Who is paying him?

Nail on the head.  Well done, Brie.

He is reported to be a very good solicitor, so likely to be very expensive.   How would a fairly simple guy like CB find such a high level solicitor too?    *%6^



Who is paying him and why?   $65*

Everyone is entitled to a Legal Defence.  Some Lawyers will take on this kind of case for the publicity, although I don't necessarily think that this is Fulscher's reason for doing so.  But I can understand his interest in Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 16, 2022, 08:27:38 AM
Who is paying him?

Nail on the head.  Well done, Brie.

He is reported to be a very good solicitor, so likely to be very expensive.   How would a fairly simple guy like CB find such a high level solicitor too?    *%6^



Who is paying him and why?   $65*

https://e-justice.europa.eu/37129/EN/legal_aid?GERMANY&init=true&member=1

Good link to show who gets legal aid
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 16, 2022, 07:42:19 PM
https://e-justice.europa.eu/37129/EN/legal_aid?GERMANY&init=true&member=1

Good link to show who gets legal aid

Thank you.

From reports shown on here, it sounds as though CB has acquired one of the top solicitors.  I wonder who guided him?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 09:06:27 AM
Speaking exclusively with nine.com.au, Mr Amaral hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20m London Metropolitan Police search for Maddie.
He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.

"[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now," Mr Amaral said.

"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."


https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile-took-maddie-uk-police-amaral-claim-podcast/cc225ca6-7123-4182-985c-89888224bd09



This guy was sacked from Madeleine McCann's investigation and has a long standing grudge against Madeleine's parents - not as a result of being sacked although there is probably an element of that but as a demonstration of his abject inability to follow evidence with an open mind.



Top Maddie detective sacked after a tirade
The Portuguese detective in charge of the Madeleine McCann inquiry has been removed from the case after accusing her parents of manipulating British police.


https://metro.co.uk/2007/10/03/top-maddie-detective-sacked-after-a-tirade-213714/


Can anyone understand why there are people uncritically promoting Amaral's opinions based on nothing but his long discredited theory and deliberate lies.
All with the intention of throwing a spanner into the works of a live police investigation which has spent years following evidence and building a case.

What is his game?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 17, 2022, 09:20:10 AM
Speaking exclusively with nine.com.au, Mr Amaral hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20m London Metropolitan Police search for Maddie.
He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.

"[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now," Mr Amaral said.

"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."


https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile-took-maddie-uk-police-amaral-claim-podcast/cc225ca6-7123-4182-985c-89888224bd09



This guy was sacked from Madeleine McCann's investigation and has a long standing grudge against Madeleine's parents - not as a result of being sacked although there is probably an element of that but as a demonstration of his abject inability to follow evidence with an open mind.



Top Maddie detective sacked after a tirade
The Portuguese detective in charge of the Madeleine McCann inquiry has been removed from the case after accusing her parents of manipulating British police.


https://metro.co.uk/2007/10/03/top-maddie-detective-sacked-after-a-tirade-213714/


Can anyone understand why there are people uncritically promoting Amaral's opinions based on nothing but his long discredited theory and deliberate lies.
All with the intention of throwing a spanner into the works of a live police investigation which has spent years following evidence and building a case.

What is his game?

Why does Portugal put up with this?  Amaral is interfering with the course of justice.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 17, 2022, 09:31:55 AM
Speaking exclusively with nine.com.au, Mr Amaral hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20m London Metropolitan Police search for Maddie.
He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.

"[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now," Mr Amaral said.

"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."


https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-german-paedophile-took-maddie-uk-police-amaral-claim-podcast/cc225ca6-7123-4182-985c-89888224bd09



This guy was sacked from Madeleine McCann's investigation and has a long standing grudge against Madeleine's parents - not as a result of being sacked although there is probably an element of that but as a demonstration of his abject inability to follow evidence with an open mind.



Top Maddie detective sacked after a tirade
The Portuguese detective in charge of the Madeleine McCann inquiry has been removed from the case after accusing her parents of manipulating British police.


https://metro.co.uk/2007/10/03/top-maddie-detective-sacked-after-a-tirade-213714/


Can anyone understand why there are people uncritically promoting Amaral's opinions based on nothing but his long discredited theory and deliberate lies.
All with the intention of throwing a spanner into the works of a live police investigation which has spent years following evidence and building a case.

What is his game?
to make hay while the sun shines I guess.  He’s done pretty well out of it so far but here’s hoping the storm clouds are gathering over his bald patch.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 09:49:43 AM
Why does Portugal put up with this?  Amaral is interfering with the course of justice.

Logic dictates that for all sorts of reasons and not just legal ones, common decency must come into it somewhere - he may have drawn attention to himself which will prove to be unwelcome.

However this is Amaral and this is Portugal we are talking about.  Where if anyone has enjoyed a "charmed" life I think he's your man!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 17, 2022, 09:55:14 AM
Why does Portugal put up with this?  Amaral is interfering with the course of justice.

Wolters has 100% convincing concrete evidence Brueckner murdered Maddie.
Nothing Amaral can possibly say will change the course of justice.
When Wolters finally puts the evidence before a judge, you'll see.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 10:08:11 AM
to make hay while the sun shines I guess.  He’s done pretty well out of it so far but here’s hoping the storm clouds are gathering over his bald patch.

He did use the opportunity he instigated to publish yet another exposé aimed in some measure at the McCanns (going by what people say - I've not read it myself - then I don't think all that many of his target audience have either).

People aren't generally as daft as Amaral and sceptics think they are and my opinion is that the penny has dropped in Portugal.
They didn't make Brueckner an arguido just because the Statute of Limitations was due to kick in.  I reckon there was quite a bit of public shock attendant to the revelations of the German investigation of the type of monsters the inactivity of the Judicial Police had condemned them and their children to sharing their beautiful country with.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2022, 10:09:03 AM
Logic dictates that for all sorts of reasons and not just legal ones, common decency must come into it somewhere - he may have drawn attention to himself which will prove to be unwelcome.

However this is Amaral and this is Portugal we are talking about.  Where if anyone has enjoyed a "charmed" life I think he's your man!

I think it's clear that Operation Grange were investigating only stranger abduction. It has nothing to do with decency to point out that fact. It is a fact too, unlike the oft repeated claim that the PJ only suspected and investigated the parents.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 17, 2022, 10:19:05 AM
to make hay while the sun shines I guess.  He’s done pretty well out of it so far but here’s hoping the storm clouds are gathering over his bald patch.

He is too arrogant to admit he is wrong.   I would like him to explain how he can say they ruled CB out when also saying they knocked on his door and he wasn't in.  How did they rule him out?  Amaral didn't even know how CB looked at the time as he stated he had dreadlocks.   If they had interviewed CB they would know he didn't have dreadlocks.  It's all a bit of a mystery.   I think they should question Amaral about what he said,  but I doubt that will happen.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 17, 2022, 10:19:55 AM
I think it's clear that Operation Grange were investigating only stranger abduction. It has nothing to do with decency to point out that fact. It is a fact too, unlike the oft repeated claim that the PJ only suspected and investigated the parents.
no they suspected and investigated Robert Murat too, for a short while but police leaks made it clear very early on where their true focus of attention lay. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 10:33:28 AM
I think it's clear that Operation Grange were investigating only stranger abduction. It has nothing to do with decency to point out that fact. It is a fact too, unlike the oft repeated claim that the PJ only suspected and investigated the parents.
Unlike you - Amaral had for once left the confines of groundhog land to fill the boots of the media with the confidential information someone had passed him which set the ball rolling in prematurely exposing the line of investigation and the suspect being pursued in a very active and official police probe.

A deliberately spoiling initiative which in my opinion was designed to kill the investigation by exposing it.

I fully understand why you wish to down play Amaral's role in this.

I fully understand why you cannot bring yourself to think about what his motivation was and is.

I cannot envisage what the motivation the hatred for the McCanns is as revealed in your posts.  That's very much a matter for you and your own conscience.
I would only request you tone it down a little and follow the line of discussion in your responses to my posts.

My post concerns Amaral deliberately revealing confidential information on an active police investigation in 2019.
As I have said - I fully understand your difficulty in defending that.  Quite frankly - there is no defence!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 10:42:36 AM
no they suspected and investigated Robert Murat too, for a short while but police leaks made it clear very early on where their true focus of attention lay.

Why is there no understanding that individuals are investigated to rule them in or to rule them out of the equation.

Just because the first result doesn't work out as preferred doesn't mean that constantly covering the same ground using the same evidence is ever going to change things.

A police investigation is an evolving process leading from one evidential fact to the next.  It is not a roundabout!

Neither Amaral or his following seem to understand that and the least of what they are doing is harassment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 17, 2022, 10:45:35 AM
He did use the opportunity he instigated to publish yet another exposé aimed in some measure at the McCanns (going by what people say - I've not read it myself - then I don't think all that many of his target audience have either).

People aren't generally as daft as Amaral and sceptics think they are and my opinion is that the penny has dropped in Portugal.
They didn't make Brueckner an arguido just because the Statute of Limitations was due to kick in.  I reckon there was quite a bit of public shock attendant to the revelations of the German investigation of the type of monsters the inactivity of the Judicial Police had condemned them and their children to sharing their beautiful country with.

There has alway been dissidence in Portugal.  I can remember some of it from a long time ago.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 17, 2022, 10:46:59 AM
I think it's clear that Operation Grange were investigating only stranger abduction. It has nothing to do with decency to point out that fact. It is a fact too, unlike the oft repeated claim that the PJ only suspected and investigated the parents.

In Your Opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 17, 2022, 10:51:43 AM
He is too arrogant to admit he is wrong.   I would like him to explain how he can say they ruled CB out when also saying they knocked on his door and he wasn't in.  How did they rule him out?  Amaral didn't even know how CB looked at the time as he stated he had dreadlocks.   If they had interviewed CB they would know he didn't have dreadlocks.  It's all a bit of a mystery.   I think they should question Amaral about what he said,  but I doubt that will happen.

Maybe Amaral will admit he was wrong when Wolters reveals the concrete evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 17, 2022, 11:08:22 AM
He is too arrogant to admit he is wrong.   I would like him to explain how he can say they ruled CB out when also saying they knocked on his door and he wasn't in.  How did they rule him out?  Amaral didn't even know how CB looked at the time as he stated he had dreadlocks.   If they had interviewed CB they would know he didn't have dreadlocks.  It's all a bit of a mystery.   I think they should question Amaral about what he said,  but I doubt that will happen.
You'll be waiting for a cold day in Hell before that's ever going to happen. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2022, 11:14:54 AM
no they suspected and investigated Robert Murat too, for a short while but police leaks made it clear very early on where their true focus of attention lay.

Their attention was drawn to the parents and their friends by the anamolies which emerged in their statements. It wasn't just the PJ who noticed either.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 17, 2022, 11:21:22 AM
Their attention was drawn to the parents and their friends by the anamolies which emerged in their statements. It wasn't just the PJ who noticed either.

Everyone is an expert these days.  Has anyone found anything yet?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 17, 2022, 11:24:19 AM
Their attention was drawn to the parents and their friends by the anamolies which emerged in their statements. It wasn't just the PJ who noticed either.
There were anomalies in everyone's statements - Murat's, the Tapas staff, the Creche staff, we all noticed them, yes.  And your point is?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 17, 2022, 11:31:45 AM
Thank you.

From reports shown on here, it sounds as though CB has acquired one of the top solicitors.  I wonder who guided him?

I am wondering if it is legal aid or not. Or if he has paid ff. Bcos he did have a different solicitor prior, which apparently he got rid of so am assuming you cant get rid of legal aid solicitor. I reckon someone has funded it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2022, 11:54:37 AM
Their attention was drawn to the parents and their friends by the anamolies which emerged in their statements. It wasn't just the PJ who noticed either.


who else raised concerns about the anomolies.....which may well have been caused due t translation issues...if you say Lee Rainbow....im sure thats a sceptic myth
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 17, 2022, 11:55:11 AM
I am wondering if it is legal aid or not. Or if he has paid ff. Bcos he did have a different solicitor prior, which apparently he got rid of so am assuming you cant get rid of legal aid solicitor. I reckon someone has funded it.

That is interesting.  I didn't know that Brueckner had changed his Lawyer.  But Fulscher could be doing it Pro Bono for some odd reason.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2022, 12:21:33 PM

who else raised concerns about the anomolies.....which may well have been caused due t translation issues...if you say Lee Rainbow....im sure thats a sceptic myth

There were several, all of which you will probably dismiss as myths. According to the saying, however, one is Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern. There was a diplomat, a profiler and a PI if I recall correctly. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 17, 2022, 12:29:55 PM
There were several, all of which you will probably dismiss as myths. According to the saying, however, one is Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern. There was a diplomat, a profiler and a PI if I recall correctly.

What has this got to do with anything?  It doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 12:34:46 PM
What has this got to do with anything?  It doesn't make sense.

At this moment in time and on this thread it all makes sense to me if one is attempting deflection from Amaral's suspicious conduct circa 2021 onwards.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2022, 12:42:37 PM
What has this got to do with anything?  It doesn't make sense.

Your tunnel vision is hampering you. Amaral and his colleagues were not the only ones who noticed anamolies in the accounts of the McCanns and their group.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 17, 2022, 12:51:30 PM
Your tunnel vision is hampering you. Amaral and his colleagues were not the only ones who noticed anamolies in the accounts of the McCanns and their group.
you really need to get to grips with the word "anomalies" if you're going to keep on writing about them.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 17, 2022, 12:56:56 PM
That is interesting.  I didn't know that Brueckner had changed his Lawyer.  But Fulscher could be doing it Pro Bono for some odd reason.

I am sure he did. But i may be wrong, im sure it was start of 2020.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 17, 2022, 01:01:07 PM
At this moment in time and on this thread it all makes sense to me if one is attempting deflection from Amaral's suspicious conduct circa 2021 onwards.

How did amaral know it wud be a german patsy at the time around 11 years later writing a new book lol
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 17, 2022, 01:08:17 PM
Your tunnel vision is hampering you. Amaral and his colleagues were not the only ones who noticed anamolies in the accounts of the McCanns and their group.

You know nothing about my vision, so please don't insult me with cheap jibes.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2022, 01:16:52 PM
Your tunnel vision is hampering you. Amaral and his colleagues were not the only ones who noticed anamolies in the accounts of the McCanns and their group.

you are making a claim as fact...but cannot show it is....I think because you cannot support your claim its quite reasonable to dismiss it. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 17, 2022, 01:24:30 PM
I am sure he did. But i may be wrong, im sure it was start of 2020.

I remember talk about CB changing solicitors too.   Well remembered Rossb

I wonder who engineered that ?   Did they provide finance too?   



OK, it is just my suspicious mind again, but I have seen so many fraudulent goings on now that I always look at that aspect first.   And Trafficking and Organised Global Child Abuse is MEGA Business.

Mega, Mega, Mega.   Filthy money.


Filthy money, with plenty to finance CB's defence, if that was their wish for some reason.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 17, 2022, 01:34:52 PM
I remember talk about CB changing solicitors too.   Well remembered Rossb

I wonder who engineered that ?   Did they provide finance too?   



OK, it is just my suspicious mind again, but I have seen so many fraudulent goings on now that I always look at that aspect first.   And Trafficking and Organised Global Child Abuse is MEGA Business.

Mega, Mega, Mega.   Filthy money.


Filthy money, with plenty to finance CB's defence, if that was their wish for some reason.

Yes, bearing in mind cb was a drug dealer and trafficked which made big money, probably not loads depending on the scale to keep him afloat.

He would of had contacts, now he isnt academic but a little street smart, but that would also contradict his various low key offences.

It is possible law enforcement have helped if it was a child ring rather than too himself. Until wolters unveils or charges him, he can play a game of chess with the media. Saying vague statements.

Charges need brought, that is when you will get his answer.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 01:39:56 PM
How did amaral know it wud be a german patsy at the time around 11 years later writing a new book lol

The Portuguese police were still obviously leaking like a sieve and someone tipped him the wink.  Unfortunately for Amaral though, the press pack homed in on the wrong German and he had to break cover once more to tell them in words of one syllable that Martin Ney was not their target.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 17, 2022, 01:48:43 PM
you are making a claim as fact...but cannot show it is....I think because you cannot support your claim its quite reasonable to dismiss it.

Right, so you can dismiss Wolters claim of concrete evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 17, 2022, 01:53:21 PM
The Portuguese police were still obviously leaking like a sieve and someone tipped him the wink.  Unfortunately for Amaral though, the press pack homed in on the wrong German and he had to break cover once more to tell them in words of one syllable that Martin Ney was not their target.

So did amaral have in mind a different german patsy? I cant remember exactly who he meant. Strange tho. But yeah probably leaked.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 01:55:50 PM
I remember talk about CB changing solicitors too.   Well remembered Rossb

I wonder who engineered that ?   Did they provide finance too?   



OK, it is just my suspicious mind again, but I have seen so many fraudulent goings on now that I always look at that aspect first.   And Trafficking and Organised Global Child Abuse is MEGA Business.

Mega, Mega, Mega.   Filthy money.


Filthy money, with plenty to finance CB's defence, if that was their wish for some reason.

He definitely had a change of lawyer but I wouldn't attach too much importance to it.


SHOCK CLAIM Madeleine McCann suspect’s ex-lawyer says he has ‘psychopathic traits’ and could be responsible for her abduction
Sarah WhiteMike Hamilton
Portugal0:29, 21 Jun 2020

PRIME suspect Christian B had “psychopathic traits” and could be responsible for Madeleine McCann’s abduction, his own ex-lawyer has said.

The German fiend’s former brief Serafim Vieira made the claims in bombshell TV interview.

Mr Vieira said: “I believe he could be behind the disappearance of Maddie.

“I can’t say he didn’t have a psychopathic temperament - on the contrary.”

Mr Vieira represented career criminal Christian B in 2006, when he spent eight months in jail in Portugal for petrol theft.

And the lawyer said that he believed the suspect may have admitted his guilt to that charge to stop police searching a farmhouse near Praia da Luz.


That meant the country’s authorities were not aware he lived there when Madeleine – who disappeared in May 2007 – later went missing from the family’s holiday apartment in the town.

At the time he was jailed in 2006, drifter Christian B was driving a blue Bedford van.

BUNGLING COPS
Yesterday it was revealed that bungling cops found the van abandoned in 2009 and unwittingly sent it to be crushed.

Christian B – being probed by German police who suspect he killed Madeleine – later used a VW camper van and went back to live in the farmhouse, two miles from the McCanns apartment.

Mr Vieira now believes Christian B pleaded guilty in 2006 to stop the spotlight falling on the ramshackle home where he lived with a friend and parked another vehicle he used, a Jaguar car.

His guilty plea meant that he was sent to prison immediately amid fears he could abscond, as he is foreign, if held on bail.

Speaking on Portuguese show Sexta as 9, Mr Vieira said: “He never said ‘this is my home’, he just said it was his friend’s house where he parked the car, or at least one of them, which was the Jaguar.”

The lawyer continued: “The van in the proceedings I dealt with was, if memory serves me right, a blue van - a Ford Bedford, something like that.”

Christian B – a drug dealer with a history of sex offences dating back to when he was 17 - was jailed in 2006 for stealing 300 litres of diesel.

And the lawyer believes Christian B effectively chose prison rather than let and inquiry drag out which could have led to searches bringing up evidence of other crimes.

Four months after his release, Madeleine – days before her fourth birthday – went missing, in a case which has been probed by Portuguese, British and German police.

Earlier this month, the German force dramatically revealed they had a prime suspect, who they named as Christian B.

And a key piece of evidence is a mobile phone call to the suspect, which placed him in Praia da Luz on the night Madeleine vanished.

German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters – heading the investigation – said they were probing the theory that a staff member at the Ocean Club resort could have tipped Christian B off that the McCanns’ apartment was empty.

PREVIOUS CONVICTIONS

He said: “We are investigating if an Ocean Club member of staff helped the suspect on the night Madeleine disappeared.

“This is of interest to us. The phone call made by the suspect could be between him and a member of staff who told him when to break into the McCanns’ apartment.”

A Sun on Sunday probe this week has found that at least two members of staff at the complex where the McCanns stayed had criminal records.

Both were interviewed by Portuguese police, whose probe was derailed as they wrongly focused on Madeleine’s parent Kate and Gerry, both doctors aged 52 from Rothley, Leics.

One of the staff members was in their apartment – 5A – carrying out repair work two days before Madeleine went missing.

He has a previous conviction – like Christian B – for drug trafficking.

A second worker had been convicted of theft, also like Christian B.

It is feared a member of staff could have tipped the German off that the apartment was empty, so he could burgle it – and that he snatched Madeleine after being disturbed.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11914910/madeleine-mccann-suspect-lawyer-psychopathic-traits/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2022, 01:56:12 PM
Right, so you can dismiss Wolters claim of concrete evidence.

im dismissing the claim that these two people made certain comments because their statements cannot be established as a fact...We know for sure Wolters has made the claims attributed to him
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2022, 01:58:59 PM
you are making a claim as fact...but cannot show it is....I think because you cannot support your claim its quite reasonable to dismiss it.

I thought you'd already decided I was talking about a 'sceptic myth'? You can't, of course support your claims of translation errors. I see those claims as supporter myths.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 02:01:45 PM
So did amaral have in mind a different german patsy? I cant remember exactly who he meant. Strange tho. But yeah probably leaked.

The only other 'patsy' to fit the bill is Brueckner.  By eliminating Martin Ney from the equation in 2020, Amaral put Brueckner firmly into the media's sights.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 17, 2022, 02:03:27 PM
I thought you'd already decided I was talking about a 'sceptic myth'? You can't, of course support your claims of translation errors. I see those claims as supporter myths.
I referred to the LEE rainbow claim as a sceptic myth...when did he make the claim of anomolies...On what basis do you regard his claim as factual.

I can and have supported my claim of possible errors....with direct quotes as cites
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2022, 02:11:06 PM
He definitely had a change of lawyer but I wouldn't attach too much importance to it.


SHOCK CLAIM Madeleine McCann suspect’s ex-lawyer says he has ‘psychopathic traits’ and could be responsible for her abduction
Sarah WhiteMike Hamilton
Portugal0:29, 21 Jun 2020

PRIME suspect Christian B had “psychopathic traits” and could be responsible for Madeleine McCann’s abduction, his own ex-lawyer has said.

The German fiend’s former brief Serafim Vieira made the claims in bombshell TV interview.

Mr Vieira said: “I believe he could be behind the disappearance of Maddie.

“I can’t say he didn’t have a psychopathic temperament - on the contrary.”

Mr Vieira represented career criminal Christian B in 2006, when he spent eight months in jail in Portugal for petrol theft.

And the lawyer said that he believed the suspect may have admitted his guilt to that charge to stop police searching a farmhouse near Praia da Luz.


That meant the country’s authorities were not aware he lived there when Madeleine – who disappeared in May 2007 – later went missing from the family’s holiday apartment in the town.

At the time he was jailed in 2006, drifter Christian B was driving a blue Bedford van.

BUNGLING COPS
Yesterday it was revealed that bungling cops found the van abandoned in 2009 and unwittingly sent it to be crushed.

Christian B – being probed by German police who suspect he killed Madeleine – later used a VW camper van and went back to live in the farmhouse, two miles from the McCanns apartment.

Mr Vieira now believes Christian B pleaded guilty in 2006 to stop the spotlight falling on the ramshackle home where he lived with a friend and parked another vehicle he used, a Jaguar car.

His guilty plea meant that he was sent to prison immediately amid fears he could abscond, as he is foreign, if held on bail.

Speaking on Portuguese show Sexta as 9, Mr Vieira said: “He never said ‘this is my home’, he just said it was his friend’s house where he parked the car, or at least one of them, which was the Jaguar.”

The lawyer continued: “The van in the proceedings I dealt with was, if memory serves me right, a blue van - a Ford Bedford, something like that.”

Christian B – a drug dealer with a history of sex offences dating back to when he was 17 - was jailed in 2006 for stealing 300 litres of diesel.

And the lawyer believes Christian B effectively chose prison rather than let and inquiry drag out which could have led to searches bringing up evidence of other crimes.

Four months after his release, Madeleine – days before her fourth birthday – went missing, in a case which has been probed by Portuguese, British and German police.

Earlier this month, the German force dramatically revealed they had a prime suspect, who they named as Christian B.

And a key piece of evidence is a mobile phone call to the suspect, which placed him in Praia da Luz on the night Madeleine vanished.

German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters – heading the investigation – said they were probing the theory that a staff member at the Ocean Club resort could have tipped Christian B off that the McCanns’ apartment was empty.

PREVIOUS CONVICTIONS

He said: “We are investigating if an Ocean Club member of staff helped the suspect on the night Madeleine disappeared.

“This is of interest to us. The phone call made by the suspect could be between him and a member of staff who told him when to break into the McCanns’ apartment.”

A Sun on Sunday probe this week has found that at least two members of staff at the complex where the McCanns stayed had criminal records.

Both were interviewed by Portuguese police, whose probe was derailed as they wrongly focused on Madeleine’s parent Kate and Gerry, both doctors aged 52 from Rothley, Leics.

One of the staff members was in their apartment – 5A – carrying out repair work two days before Madeleine went missing.

He has a previous conviction – like Christian B – for drug trafficking.

A second worker had been convicted of theft, also like Christian B.

It is feared a member of staff could have tipped the German off that the apartment was empty, so he could burgle it – and that he snatched Madeleine after being disturbed.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11914910/madeleine-mccann-suspect-lawyer-psychopathic-traits/

That's a Portuguese lawyer who wouldn't represent him in Germany anyway, I would think.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 17, 2022, 02:51:12 PM
That's a Portuguese lawyer who wouldn't represent him in Germany anyway, I would think.

Which is why I have said there is no significance to the fact he is not representing Brueckner.

What is significant though is his assessment of his former client ~

Mr Vieira represented career criminal Christian B in 2006, when he spent eight months in jail in Portugal for petrol theft.
And the lawyer said that he believed the suspect may have admitted his guilt to that charge to stop police searching a farmhouse near Praia da Luz.
That meant the country’s authorities were not aware he lived there when Madeleine – who disappeared in May 2007 – later went missing from the family’s holiday apartment in the town.


Which in reality meant that the authorities missed the opportunity of recovering proof of his criminality from the belongings (or one should say other folks' belongings, from the proceeds of theft secreted there).

Still as the saying goes "no loss what a friend gets" his friends following instructions to make his dwelling look as if it had been ransacked cleared it for him.  Ultimately aided and abetted by concerned neighbours who completed the clean up.

Amaral didn't bother too much about tracking down sex offences which had taken place in the near vicinity of the Ocean Club resort.  Neither did he do anything about checking linkage with the other missing child case only seven miles away and that is certainly a case he knew all about.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2022, 06:06:10 PM
Which is why I have said there is no significance to the fact he is not representing Brueckner.

What is significant though is his assessment of his former client ~

Mr Vieira represented career criminal Christian B in 2006, when he spent eight months in jail in Portugal for petrol theft.
And the lawyer said that he believed the suspect may have admitted his guilt to that charge to stop police searching a farmhouse near Praia da Luz.
That meant the country’s authorities were not aware he lived there when Madeleine – who disappeared in May 2007 – later went missing from the family’s holiday apartment in the town.


Which in reality meant that the authorities missed the opportunity of recovering proof of his criminality from the belongings (or one should say other folks' belongings, from the proceeds of theft secreted there).

Still as the saying goes "no loss what a friend gets" his friends following instructions to make his dwelling look as if it had been ransacked cleared it for him.  Ultimately aided and abetted by concerned neighbours who completed the clean up.

Amaral didn't bother too much about tracking down sex offences which had taken place in the near vicinity of the Ocean Club resort.  Neither did he do anything about checking linkage with the other missing child case only seven miles away and that is certainly a case he knew all about.

As Brueckner was caught in the act of stealing diesel I'm not surprised he pleaded guilty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 17, 2022, 06:08:46 PM
As Brueckner was caught in the act of stealing diesel I'm not surprised he pleaded guilty.

A brilliant deduction I must say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 17, 2022, 06:13:43 PM
As Brueckner was caught in the act of stealing diesel I'm not surprised he pleaded guilty.
The bloke who stabbed Salman Rushdie pleaded not guilty to murder despite the fact that hundreds of people witnessed him trying to murder Salman Rushdie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2022, 01:31:47 PM
The Portuguese police were still obviously leaking like a sieve and someone tipped him the wink.  Unfortunately for Amaral though, the press pack homed in on the wrong German and he had to break cover once more to tell them in words of one syllable that Martin Ney was not their target.

Martin Ney was not their target.

No, not now he isn't but he was.

German child killer Martin Ney, 49, 'is set to be questioned for a second time over Madeleine McCann’s disappearance'

Just a long line of suspects and CB will soon be just another one on the list.

At least GA has been consistent with who he believes was responsible ....for 15 years,


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 24, 2022, 01:35:12 PM
Martin Ney was not their target.

No, not now he isn't but he was.

German child killer Martin Ney, 49, 'is set to be questioned for a second time over Madeleine McCann’s disappearance'

Just a long line of suspects and CB will soon be just another one on the list.

At least GA has been consistent with who he believes was responsible ....for 15 years,

Being consistently wrong is nothing to be proud of
.amaral didn't have evidence to support his claim...I'm sure you will find wolters has
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2022, 01:43:54 PM
Being consistently wrong is nothing to be proud of
.amaral didn't have evidence to support his claim...I'm sure you will find wolters has

.I'm sure you will find wolters has

Being consistently wrong is nothing to be proud of
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 24, 2022, 02:55:46 PM
Being consistently wrong is nothing to be proud of
.amaral didn't have evidence to support his claim...I'm sure you will find wolters has

Shouldn't be much longer now aye.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 24, 2022, 02:58:04 PM
.I'm sure you will find wolters has

Being consistently wrong is nothing to be proud of
As has already been said even if CB was found guilty you wouldn't accept it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 24, 2022, 03:09:44 PM
As has already been said even if CB was found guilty you wouldn't accept it

When does the trial start?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on August 24, 2022, 03:20:26 PM
When does the trial start?

Never mind a trial, what about a charge?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 24, 2022, 04:12:13 PM
As has already been said even if CB was found guilty you wouldn't accept it

Well, we will never know....because he wont be found guilty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 24, 2022, 04:49:09 PM
Well, we will never know....because he wont be found guilty.
How do you know?  I thought he was a patsy and being set up to take the blame, no?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 24, 2022, 04:58:18 PM
Well, we will never know....because he wont be found guilty.

the fact that you state that as a fact when its opinion......shows youe opinion is worthless. I dont know if he will be found guilty ...but i think its highly likely he will be..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 24, 2022, 04:59:46 PM
the fact that you state that as a fact when its opinion......shows youe opinion is worthless. I dont know if he will be found guilty ...but i think its highly likely he will be..

Just not any time in the foreseeable future though.

Certainly, Wolters doesn't think so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 24, 2022, 06:23:06 PM
Just not any time in the foreseeable future though.

Certainly, Wolters doesn't think so.

After the trial of CB for the Behan rape....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 25, 2022, 01:21:55 PM
the fact that you state that as a fact when its opinion......shows youe opinion is worthless. I dont know if he will be found guilty ...but i think its highly likely he will be..

 I dont know if he will be found guilty ...


Exactly, you don't know - so how do you know my opinion is worthless.

You just think he will be.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 25, 2022, 01:28:33 PM
How do you know?  I thought he was a patsy and being set up to take the blame, no?


What I do think, if they spent the time looking into people who was there - they would have got somewhere by now.

Instead of looking for a cap that fits the abduction theory.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 25, 2022, 01:34:25 PM

What I do think, if they spent the time looking into people who was there - they would have got somewhere by now.

Instead of looking for a cap that fits the abduction theory.
They are looking into CB who they believe was there.  Who do you think they should be looking at?  The parents?  What do you think they could possibly uncover there that the PJ overlooked?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 25, 2022, 01:37:35 PM

What I do think, if they spent the time looking into people who was there - they would have got somewhere by now.

Instead of looking for a cap that fits the abduction theory.

Spot on observation!

They have indeed spent a considerable amount of time looking into people who were there.  And indeed it has got them somewhere.

It has also got Christian Brueckner the status of arguido in Portugal and the status of prime suspect in Germany and Britain.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on August 25, 2022, 02:04:32 PM
They are looking into CB who they believe was there.  Who do you think they should be looking at?  The parents?  What do you think they could possibly uncover there that the PJ overlooked?

Wasn’t the initial investigation shoddy to say the least and, according to believers, the current one doesn’t seem a whole lot better?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 25, 2022, 02:10:17 PM
Wasn’t the initial investigation shoddy to say the least and, according to believers, the current one doesn’t seem a whole lot better?
I can't speak for "believers" but if you're asking me the initial investigation was shoddy yes, but as yet I don't have a complaint about the current one.
How about you tell us what avenues of investigation you would have pursued if you had been put in charge that the shoddy PJ overlooked?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 25, 2022, 02:30:54 PM
Spot on observation!

They have indeed spent a considerable amount of time looking into people who were there.  And indeed it has got them somewhere.

It has also got Christian Brueckner the status of arguido in Portugal and the status of prime suspect in Germany and Britain.

Well my observation would be the golden hour etc was lost the minute the mccs let 20 people odd tramp round the place.

Why, after all she had already searched the place thoroughly....and knew maddie had been taken.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 25, 2022, 03:03:11 PM
Well my observation would be the golden hour etc was lost the minute the mccs let 20 people odd tramp round the place.

Why, after all she had already searched the place thoroughly....and knew maddie had been taken.

Not really interested in your observations though are we.  On this thread the place to go for observation is to Amaral, don't you think.

Then again - Amaral wasn't actually there which means he witnessed nothing.  So I am afraid you will have to go along with the witnesses who were there at the time and the fact that never once in the years since Madeleine's case was put on the shelf have the Portuguese Judiciary constituted one single arguido.

Wonder why they've done that now.


Madeleine McCann: Christian Brueckner declared formal suspect
By Adam Durbin & Andre Rhoden-Paul
BBC News


Published
22 April

A German man has been declared an official suspect by Portuguese prosecutors investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Christian Brueckner, 45, has been made an "arguido", but Portuguese authorities have not formally revealed the suspect's name.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

On Thursday, a statement was issued by prosecutors in Faro, Algarve's main city, who said a person was made an "arguido" - which translates as "named suspect", "formal suspect" or "person of interest" - a day earlier.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61183857
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 25, 2022, 03:16:54 PM
Not really interested in your observations though are we.  On this thread the place to go for observation is to Amaral, don't you think.

Then again - Amaral wasn't actually there which means he witnessed nothing.  So I am afraid you will have to go along with the witnesses who were there at the time and the fact that never once in the years since Madeleine's case was put on the shelf have the Portuguese Judiciary constituted one single arguido.

Wonder why they've done that now.


Madeleine McCann: Christian Brueckner declared formal suspect
By Adam Durbin & Andre Rhoden-Paul
BBC News


Published
22 April

A German man has been declared an official suspect by Portuguese prosecutors investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Christian Brueckner, 45, has been made an "arguido", but Portuguese authorities have not formally revealed the suspect's name.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

On Thursday, a statement was issued by prosecutors in Faro, Algarve's main city, who said a person was made an "arguido" - which translates as "named suspect", "formal suspect" or "person of interest" - a day earlier.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61183857


Excuse me B .....they are just printed words....words you choose to believe.

Whether you are interested in what I have to say or not... is of no concern to me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 25, 2022, 03:37:34 PM

Excuse me B .....they are just printed words....words you choose to believe.

Whether you are interested in what I have to say or not... is of no concern to me.

Portuguese prosecutors have confirmed that Brueckner is an official suspect in the crime against Madeleine McCann.

Goncalo Amaral has made a career out of denying any such crime took place.

It now seems that according to the official line being taken in Portugal that you - Amaral - and the rest of his followers are the ones out of step with the evidence based and informed opinion adopted by Portuguese prosecutors.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 25, 2022, 03:47:13 PM
Portuguese prosecutors have confirmed that Brueckner is an official suspect in the crime against Madeleine McCann.

Goncalo Amaral has made a career out of denying any such crime took place.

It now seems that according to the official line being taken in Portugal that you - Amaral - and the rest of his followers are the ones out of step with the evidence based and informed opinion adopted by Portuguese prosecutors.

The bottom line is actions speak louder than words.

At the moment action is zero no charges.....same as abduction has zero evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 25, 2022, 04:13:36 PM
The bottom line is actions speak louder than words.

At the moment action is zero no charges.....same as abduction has zero evidence.

Portuguese prosecutors have acted.

Proving Goncalo Amaral and his opinions are now totally rubbished by Portuguese officials. 

It has taken over fifteen years to arrive at this juncture - a wee bit longer to set the record straight seems OK to me, but then again I am one who really does wish to see "Justice for Madeleine".
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 25, 2022, 04:17:33 PM
Portuguese prosecutors have acted.

Proving Goncalo Amaral and his opinions are now totally rubbished by Portuguese officials. 

It has taken over fifteen years to arrive at this juncture - a wee bit longer to set the record straight seems OK to me, but then again I am one who really does wish to see "Justice for Madeleine".

 I am one who really does wish to see "Justice for Madeleine".


.

Do you really ...or is it what happened to the mccs....not maddie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 25, 2022, 04:53:14 PM

 I am one who really does wish to see "Justice for Madeleine".


.

Do you really ...or is it what happened to the mccs....not maddie.

Goncalo Amaral is the guy you should be questioning about his attitudes and actions in relation to
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 25, 2022, 05:14:16 PM
Well my observation would be the golden hour etc was lost the minute the mccs let 20 people odd tramp round the place.

Why, after all she had already searched the place thoroughly....and knew maddie had been taken.

Oh for goodness sake,  the McCann's were searching for their daughter,  what do you mean 'let twenty odd people tramp around the place'.  Their main concern was finding their daughter.   
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 25, 2022, 05:16:04 PM

What I do think, if they spent the time looking into people who was there - they would have got somewhere by now.

Instead of looking for a cap that fits the abduction theory.

Instead of the cap that incriminated the McCann's you mean?   Detectives have ruled out the McCann's  get up to date.  Three Police forces are looking at CB.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 25, 2022, 06:43:31 PM
Instead of the cap that incriminated the McCann's you mean?   Detectives have ruled out the McCann's  get up to date.  Three Police forces are looking at CB.

Not seeing much though are they.
Certainly not seeing him being charged anytime in the foreseeable future anyway.
So maybe he just didn't do it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 26, 2022, 08:42:53 AM
Not seeing much though are they.
Certainly not seeing him being charged anytime in the foreseeable future anyway.
So maybe he just didn't do it.

Yeah 15 years later mi5 and mi6 must be really good.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 26, 2022, 09:39:14 AM
Oh for goodness sake,  the McCann's were searching for their daughter,  what do you mean 'let twenty odd people tramp around the place'.  Their main concern was finding their daughter.

They were, according to Kate McCann, at least aware of the need to keep the crime scene undisturbed:

"until one of the PJ officers stuck a piece of police tape across the doorway of the children’s room, it was Gerry who tried to make sure everyone kept clear of it." [madeleine page 86]
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 26, 2022, 09:49:01 AM
They were, according to Kate McCann, at least aware of the need to keep the crime scene undisturbed:

"until one of the PJ officers stuck a piece of police tape across the doorway of the children’s room, it was Gerry who tried to make sure everyone kept clear of it." [madeleine page 86]
yes, once the importance of doing so had sunk in after the initial panic.  But let's beat them up about it anyway, it will achieve a whole lot.  Not. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 26, 2022, 10:14:21 AM
yes, once the importance of doing so had sunk in after the initial panic.  But let's beat them up about it anyway, it will achieve a whole lot.  Not.

Don't you know you are supposed to be on the ball if your child gets abducted?  Instantly able to speak a foreign language and seal off the crime scene while getting out there searching.

PS.  Has anyone got the number of The French Emergency Services?  Someone might abduct Robin Dominic one of these days, with a bit of luck.  But lay off O'Connor the Dachshund.  I'm not having that.  And besides, he is really awful and you wouldn't want him anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 26, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
Don't you know you are supposed to be on the ball if your child gets abducted?  Instantly able to speak a foreign language and seal off the crime scene while getting out there searching.

PS.  Has anyone got the number of The French Emergency Services?  Someone might abduct Robin Dominic one of these days, with a bit of luck.  But lay off O'Connor the Dachshund.  I'm not having that.  And besides, he is really awful and you wouldn't want him anyway.
Un Un Deux pour Les Services d'Emergency. Mais Je had to google it, je pense que it was Un Un Un mais Je was wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 26, 2022, 10:37:53 AM
Un Un Deux pour Les Services d'Emergency. Mais Je had to google it, je pense que it was Un Un Un mais Je was wrong.

Thanks.  That's a lot of help since my French is abysmal, and so apparently is yours.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 26, 2022, 10:40:13 AM
Don't you know you are supposed to be on the ball if your child gets abducted?  Instantly able to speak a foreign language and seal off the crime scene while getting out there searching.

PS.  Has anyone got the number of The French Emergency Services?  Someone might abduct Robin Dominic one of these days, with a bit of luck.  But lay off O'Connor the Dachshund.  I'm not having that.  And besides, he is really awful and you wouldn't want him anyway.


The utter contempt displayed by Amaral for the grief and anguish of parents in the midst of unimaginable trauma is exemplified by his descriptions in his book and in his documentary.

It is a measure of this invisible man who wasn't even there as a witness to the events described.

But who didn't miss seizing the opportunity to deride and mock the parents of a missing child in the midst of their panic and distress.
The theme might have been "praying Arabs" and used to caricature and demean ~ but in retrospect the individual who emerges from it with reputation shredded is Amaral ~ whose portrayal of the event illustrates nothing but his inhumanity.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 26, 2022, 10:52:34 AM
Don't you know you are supposed to be on the ball if your child gets abducted?  Instantly able to speak a foreign language and seal off the crime scene while getting out there searching.

PS.  Has anyone got the number of The French Emergency Services?  Someone might abduct Robin Dominic one of these days, with a bit of luck.  But lay off O'Connor the Dachshund.  I'm not having that.  And besides, he is really awful and you wouldn't want him anyway.

Hindsight is a perfect science.

Proved by Amaral being able to tell us fifteen years down the line that Brueckner had been on the police radar they just didn't find him.

Imagine if he had been in the position of being able to have continued looking and perhaps finding him early days in May 2007.
Perhaps if the unanswered knock at the door had been followed through and if they still couldn't locate him but as a result knew he was missing, to where that might have progressed.  Fifteen years later, though?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 26, 2022, 10:59:26 AM
Hindsight is a perfect science.

Proved by Amaral being able to tell us fifteen years down the line that Brueckner had been on the police radar they just didn't find him.

Imagine if he had been in the position of being able to have continued looking and perhaps finding him early days in May 2007.
Perhaps if the unanswered knock at the door had been followed through and if they still couldn't locate him but as a result knew he was missing, to where that might have progressed.  Fifteen years later, though?

Well it wouldn't have got anywhere because Brueckner destroyed the evidence. Same reason Wolters is struggling now no doubt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 26, 2022, 10:59:47 AM
Don't you know you are supposed to be on the ball if your child gets abducted?  Instantly able to speak a foreign language and seal off the crime scene while getting out there searching.

PS.  Has anyone got the number of The French Emergency Services?  Someone might abduct Robin Dominic one of these days, with a bit of luck.  But lay off O'Connor the Dachshund.  I'm not having that.  And besides, he is really awful and you wouldn't want him anyway.

People say how rare it is for a child to be abducted in a foreign country. So how rare is it for parents in a foreign country to hide an accidental death? Zilch
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 26, 2022, 11:34:28 AM

The utter contempt displayed by Amaral for the grief and anguish of parents in the midst of unimaginable trauma is exemplified by his descriptions in his book and in his documentary.

It is a measure of this invisible man who wasn't even there as a witness to the events described.

But who didn't miss seizing the opportunity to deride and mock the parents of a missing child in the midst of their panic and distress.
The theme might have been "praying Arabs" and used to caricature and demean ~ but in retrospect the individual who emerges from it with reputation shredded is Amaral ~ whose portrayal of the event illustrates nothing but his inhumanity.

I believe that Amaral was hoping to prop up the treatment of The Ciprianos, especially as he was made Arguido himself on the very next day.

The PJ appear to have been a law unto itself until then and deeming anyone guilty even if there was no evidence.  Choose your perpetrator and then fit them up.

Despite the misery of The McCanns this has in many ways  been successful in exposing this.  Amaral was in fact just an ignorant peasant who was used by the power of the Old Guard who reinvented themselves during the Two Revolutions and are still in power to this day.  Sitting comfortably at The Supreme Court of Portugal.

It will end one day, probably only when they are all dead.  Meanwhile, Amaral is the real Scapegoat.

It took one English Woman and one very small child to question the ethics of The PJ.  How very sad is that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 26, 2022, 11:50:30 AM
Hindsight is a perfect science.

Proved by Amaral being able to tell us fifteen years down the line that Brueckner had been on the police radar they just didn't find him.

Imagine if he had been in the position of being able to have continued looking and perhaps finding him early days in May 2007.
Perhaps if the unanswered knock at the door had been followed through and if they still couldn't locate him but as a result knew he was missing, to where that might have progressed.  Fifteen years later, though?

This has never been about Amaral.  He was just ideally incompetent.  Just the idiot who was somehow allowed to be In Charge.  Amaral fulfilled his place to perfection.  Portugal is still in The Dark Ages.  Why else would Portugal allow Amaral to go on interfering with The Course of Justice?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 26, 2022, 11:53:55 AM
People say how rare it is for a child to be abducted in a foreign country. So how rare is it for parents in a foreign country to hide an accidental death? Zilch

Therein lies the problem.  And why this is an extraordinary case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 26, 2022, 12:51:18 PM

I believe that Amaral was hoping to prop up the treatment of The Ciprianos, especially as he was made Arguido himself on the very next day.

The PJ appear to have been a law unto itself until then and deeming anyone guilty even if there was no evidence.  Choose your perpetrator and then fit them up.

Despite the misery of The McCanns this has in many ways  been successful in exposing this.  Amaral was in fact just an ignorant peasant who was used by the power of the Old Guard who reinvented themselves during the Two Revolutions and are still in power to this day.  Sitting comfortably at The Supreme Court of Portugal.

It will end one day, probably only when they are all dead.  Meanwhile, Amaral is the real Scapegoat.

It took one English Woman and one very small child to question the ethics of The PJ.  How very sad is that.

If nothing else let's hope that this topples the Old Guard.   

Amaral is from th same bloodline as the Old Guard, but altho he behaves like a peasant IMO, he is actually related to Isabella who would have been Queen of Portugal had it not been for the revolution.   She is descended from the *Guedes do Amaral* and the *de Sousas*, as is Goncalo Amaral, so his bloodline is pretty special


Yeah, I think thta you  are right, Elli    Goncalo Amaraal is the real Scapegoat


But I am hopeful that Madeleine will be recovered.   Sadly she will not be the same Madeleine that she would have been.   Tragic.











Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 26, 2022, 01:19:59 PM
If nothing else let's hope that this topples the Old Guard.   

Amaral is from th same bloodline as the Old Guard, but altho he behaves like a peasant IMO, he is actually related to Isabella who would have been Queen of Portugal had it not been for the revolution.   She is descended from the *Guedes do Amaral* and the *de Sousas*, as is Goncalo Amaral, so his bloodline is pretty special


Yeah, I think thta you  are right, Elli    Goncalo Amaraal is the real Scapegoat


But I am hopeful that Madeleine will be recovered.   Sadly she will not be the same Madeleine that she would have been.   Tragic.

It won't topple The Old Guard, Sadie.  They are the heart and soul of this misbegotten country.  Only old age and death will do that.  But it shouldn't be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 26, 2022, 01:34:39 PM
It won't topple The Old Guard, Sadie.  They are the heart and soul of this misbegotten country.  Only old age and death will do that.  But it shouldn't be much longer now.

Then the next hereditary tier will move into place and money, breeding and education will prove their worth. Proving that sticking a carnation into gun muzzles is no way to seriously conduct a revolution.

The Old Guard whatever nationality they may be have always been there and always will be.  Neither Mme Guillotine, cellars in Yekaterinburg nor atom bombs will cause anything other than a slight irritant.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 26, 2022, 01:39:53 PM
Instead of the cap that incriminated the McCann's you mean?   Detectives have ruled out the McCann's  get up to date.  Three Police forces are looking at CB.


So what are they looking for ...the three police forces.

Looking at CB is not exactly enough evidence to charge him.

Seeing "your" so up to date why haven't they charged him -  apparently the rumor is they have concrete evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 26, 2022, 01:50:05 PM
Then the next hereditary tier will move into place and money, breeding and education will prove their worth. Proving that sticking a carnation into gun muzzles is no way to seriously conduct a revolution.

The Old Guard whatever nationality they may be have always been there and always will be.  Neither Mme Guillotine, cellars in Yekaterinburg nor atom bombs will cause anything other than a slight irritant.

The original Revolutionists didn't know what they were doing.  I was there in Portugal at the time and those who stopped us on the drive down through Portugal were polite and pleasant and waved us on with their guns.  It was the second Revolution that was the nasty one, by which time the Old Guard had recovered.  And that was the end of freedom for Portugal for many a long year.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 26, 2022, 02:24:31 PM

The utter contempt displayed by Amaral for the grief and anguish of parents in the midst of unimaginable trauma is exemplified by his descriptions in his book and in his documentary.

It is a measure of this invisible man who wasn't even there as a witness to the events described.

But who didn't miss seizing the opportunity to deride and mock the parents of a missing child in the midst of their panic and distress.
The theme might have been "praying Arabs" and used to caricature and demean ~ but in retrospect the individual who emerges from it with reputation shredded is Amaral ~ whose portrayal of the event illustrates nothing but his inhumanity.


I suppose you would think all in your post as it suits your strattergy to crucify GA.

Its a fact the mccs did everything in there powwer to PROTECT there reputaition.

Bet you would think thank god they had the sense to start a fund and employ 11 lawyers  an thank god for Carter Ruck.  That did everything imo than look for maddie.....just seemed alabout the mccs and reputation.

Surly B you are not naive enough to think that only GA is responsible for all the doubt.

How many other professional people who have wrote books profilers who studied mccs have thought them involved.

What ever interference you think G A  caused it was nothing to the interference of the UK.

Still to this day ....G A has not been proved wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 26, 2022, 02:27:03 PM

I suppose you would think all in your post as it suits your strattergy to crucify GA.

Its a fact the mccs did everything in there powwer to PROTECT there reputaition.

Bet you would think thank god they had the sense to start a fund and employ 11 lawyers  an thank god for Carter Ruck.  That did everything imo than look for maddie.....just seemed alabout the mccs and reputation.

Surly B you are not naive enough to think that only GA is responsible for all the doubt.

How many other professional people who have wrote books profilers who studied mccs have thought them involved.

What ever interference you think G A  caused it was nothing to the interference of the UK.

Still to this day ....G A has not been proved wrong.
I haven't seen anyone of note who think the mccanns are involved...not one
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 26, 2022, 02:29:24 PM
I haven't seen anyone of note who think the mccanns are involved...not one

Suppose it depends where you look.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 26, 2022, 02:40:18 PM

I suppose you would think all in your post as it suits your strattergy to crucify GA.

Its a fact the mccs did everything in there powwer to PROTECT there reputaition.

Bet you would think thank god they had the sense to start a fund and employ 11 lawyers  an thank god for Carter Ruck.  That did everything imo than look for maddie.....just seemed alabout the mccs and reputation.

Surly B you are not naive enough to think that only GA is responsible for all the doubt.

How many other professional people who have wrote books profilers who studied mccs have thought them involved.

What ever interference you think G A  caused it was nothing to the interference of the UK.

Still to this day ....G A has not been proved wrong.

I'd never even heard of Amaral before I realised there simply wasn't any abductor, &
Wolters isn't having any joy proving me wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 26, 2022, 04:39:34 PM
Suppose it depends where you look.


I'm aware of everything from both sides....you cannot name one person of note who thinks the mccanns are guilty...because there isn't one.
Those who do accuse the mccsnns believe a load of junk..like the dogs having 100% record...it isn't true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 26, 2022, 05:23:30 PM

I'm aware of everything from both sides....you cannot name one person of note who thinks the mccanns are guilty...because there isn't one.
Those who do accuse the mccsnns believe a load of junk..like the dogs having 100% record...it isn't true
There is no one of note (ie anyone with a shred of credibility) that believes the McCanns are guilty afaik.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 26, 2022, 07:22:17 PM
There is no one of note (ie anyone with a shred of credibility) that believes the McCanns are guilty afaik.

Perhaps some people don't speak their minds through fear of litigation.
I mean, that's possible isn't it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 26, 2022, 07:27:06 PM

& MWT really does believe Maddie opened the window herself, dontcha know. Everyone always tells the truth about everything you see.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 26, 2022, 08:49:17 PM
There is no one of note (ie anyone with a shred of credibility) that believes the McCanns are guilty afaik.

That's because anyone who expresses doubt is automatically assumed to lack credibility by McCann aupporters imo. Whether they actually lack credibility is another matter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 26, 2022, 09:11:56 PM
That's because anyone who expresses doubt is automatically assumed to lack credibility by McCann aupporters imo. Whether they actually lack credibility is another matter.
Well who do you know of note who thinks the McCanns are guilty?  Tony Bennett (not the singer)?  Pat Brown?  Captain Sensible?  Anyone else?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 26, 2022, 09:27:04 PM
Well who do you know of note who thinks the McCanns are guilty?  Tony Bennett (not the singer)?  Pat Brown?  Captain Sensible?  Anyone else?

No one in their right mind could have the slightest doubt about Kate's curtains.
Utterly convincing so they are.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 26, 2022, 09:28:32 PM
That's because anyone who expresses doubt is automatically assumed to lack credibility by McCann aupporters imo. Whether they actually lack credibility is another matter.

I think you have made another junk post. Could you name one of these credible people...you can't can you.
Ss I've said..all the z list investigators..poulton,,,brown...believe Eddie had a 100 % record which I would think you know is simply not true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 26, 2022, 09:34:02 PM

I prefer credible people like Wolters.
If he says he has concrete evidence then he most definitely has & I trust him implicitly, even if he never gets round to whipping the evidence out in public or before a judge or anything.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 26, 2022, 10:00:40 PM
I think you have made another junk post. Could you name one of these credible people...you can't can you.
Ss I've said..all the z list investigators..poulton,,,brown...believe Eddie had a 100 % record which I would think you know is simply not true
Of course!  Sonia Poulton!!  How could I have forgotten her?  Incredibly credible I’m sure…  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 26, 2022, 10:28:05 PM

I suppose you would think all in your post as it suits your strattergy to crucify GA.

Its a fact the mccs did everything in there powwer to PROTECT there reputaition.

Bet you would think thank god they had the sense to start a fund and employ 11 lawyers  an thank god for Carter Ruck.  That did everything imo than look for maddie.....just seemed alabout the mccs and reputation.

Surly B you are not naive enough to think that only GA is responsible for all the doubt.

How many other professional people who have wrote books profilers who studied mccs have thought them involved.

What ever interference you think G A  caused it was nothing to the interference of the UK.

Still to this day ....G A has not been proved wrong.

I think you are basing your assessment of Amaral on what he has written about himself in his best seller without realising that it is actually a work of fiction which inadvertently gives a masterclass from start to finish in exactly how not to conduct a police investigation.

His desperation is palpable with the advent of German and British prime suspect and Portuguese arguido, Brueckner, into the mix.  The mere existence of whom tends to indicate just precisely how wrong Amaral has always been.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 26, 2022, 10:41:46 PM
I think you are basing your assessment of Amaral on what he has written about himself in his best seller without realising that it is actually a work of fiction which inadvertently gives a masterclass from start to finish in exactly how not to conduct a police investigation.

His desperation is palpable with the advent of German and British prime suspect and Portuguese arguido, Brueckner, into the mix.  The mere existence of whom tends to indicate just precisely how wrong Amaral has always been.

Yeah, charges coming for the abductor alright, just not any time in the foreseeable future though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 26, 2022, 10:43:29 PM
Of course!  Sonia Poulton!!  How could I have forgotten her?  Incredibly credible I’m sure…  @)(++(*

Maybe she has concrete evidence, I mean, we know Wolters doesn't so maybe she'll have more luck.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 27, 2022, 10:26:40 AM

So what are they looking for ...the three police forces.

Looking at CB is not exactly enough evidence to charge him.

Seeing "your" so up to date why haven't they charged him -  apparently the rumor is they have concrete evidence.


CB isn't going anywhere soon.   As Woltors said,  he wants to get a the other crimes out of the way first.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 10:30:57 AM

CB isn't going anywhere soon.   As Woltors said,  he wants to get a the other crimes out of the way first.

Do you have a cite for that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 10:35:35 AM

So what are they looking for ...the three police forces.

Looking at CB is not exactly enough evidence to charge him.

Seeing "your" so up to date why haven't they charged him -  apparently the rumor is they have concrete evidence.

There's a link between the Hazel Behan rape case & Maddie, according to some, but no one will venture exactly what this link is supposed to be.
The only link I can find mentioned by Wolters is the open window.
Unless anyone would care to correct me on that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2022, 10:38:56 AM
There's a link between the Hazel Behan rape case & Maddie, according to some, but no one will venture exactly what this link is supposed to be.
The only link I can find mentioned by Wolters is the open window.
Unless anyone would care to correct me on that.

I've said what the link is thought to be...no intention of continually repeating things
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 10:45:10 AM
I've said what the link is thought to be...no intention of continually repeating things

You never provided the relevant quote from Wolters though.
Fancy sharing it with the forum now?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 27, 2022, 10:47:07 AM
Why would the public have been informed of the link the police have established between the two cases anyway?  Or is there a belief that every single detail of investigation into the Behan / McCann cases have been divulged publicly?  Some people really do need to grow up and stop their childish daily repeated mantras IMO.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2022, 10:49:51 AM
You never provided the relevant quote from Wolters though.
Fancy sharing it with the forum now?

You are only here for a laugh...I'm happy share with anyone interested in a serious discussion..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 10:53:38 AM
Why would the public have been informed of the link the police have established between the two cases anyway?  Or is there a belief that every single detail of investigation into the Behan / McCann cases have been divulged publicly?  Some people really do need to grow up and stop their childish daily repeated mantras IMO.

Devel claims that Wolters claims there's a link, other than just the window, so maybe he could find the relevant quote from Wolters & we could have serious & sensible discussion about it.
Or I could just carry on ripping you all for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 10:54:32 AM
You are only here for a laugh...I'm happy share with anyone interested in a serious discussion..

Just provide the relevant quote, there's a love.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2022, 10:57:17 AM
Devel claims that Wolters claims there's a link, other than just the window, so maybe he could find the relevant quote from Wolters & we could have serious & sensible discussion about it.
Or I could just carry on ripping you all for the foreseeable future.

I suggest you carry on getting yourself off on your own...there's a word for that....no ones interested in what you post or think
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 10:58:28 AM
I suggest you carry on getting yourself off on your own...there's a word for that....no ones interested in what you post or think

Yet you often feel compelled to reply, just not with the relevant quote from Wolters though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2022, 11:03:43 AM
Yet you often feel compelled to reply, just not with the relevant quote from Wolters though.

I'm not compelled..just enjoy giving you a taste of your own medicine
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 11:04:41 AM
I'm not compelled..just enjoy giving you a taste of your own medicine

Not doing very well at it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 27, 2022, 11:50:00 AM
I suggest you carry on getting yourself off on your own...there's a word for that....no ones interested in what you post or think

no ones interested in what you post or think

How do you know that, you don't.....like you only know what you think you know an that is no more than anyone else.

Your just a poster MR ...what makes you think anyone has any interest in what you have to say.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2022, 12:20:31 PM
no ones interested in what you post or think

How do you know that, you don't.....like you only know what you think you know an that is no more than anyone else.

Your just a poster MR ...what makes you think anyone has any interest in what you have to say.

I'm not bothered if anyone's interested in my posts.....I'm s much better informed poster than others...for instance I know the claim sceptics believe that Eddie had a 100% record is total BS...I know that because Grime has admitted it...I know Eddie isn't a reliable cadaver dog...because Grime said so...
All your suspicions and those of other sceptics are based on junk..I know that too
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2022, 12:23:20 PM
no ones interested in what you post or think

How do you know that, you don't.....like you only know what you think you know an that is no more than anyone else.

Your just a poster MR ...what makes you think anyone has any interest in what you have to say.

What about you claim of all these people who think the McCann's are guilty...you cant name one...lol...note junk
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 27, 2022, 12:51:44 PM
Do you have a cite for that?

Mr Wolters said it is likely Brueckner - who is now in solitary confinement at Oldenburg prison near Bremen, north-west Germany - will be charged early next year with other alleged offences in Portugal, including the rape of an Irish woman in the Algarve in 2004 and two incidents where he allegedly flashed at youngsters.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 12:55:50 PM
Mr Wolters said it is likely Brueckner - who is now in solitary confinement at Oldenburg prison near Bremen, north-west Germany - will be charged early next year with other alleged offences in Portugal, including the rape of an Irish woman in the Algarve in 2004 and two incidents where he allegedly flashed at youngsters.

Great, but where's the part about him being charged with Madeleine's abduction & murder after?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 27, 2022, 01:03:05 PM
Great, but where's the part about him being charged with Madeleine's abduction & murder after?

Didn't you read the part which said he would be charged?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 01:05:20 PM
Didn't you read the part which said he would be charged?

With other offences yes.
Nothing relating to Maddie though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 27, 2022, 01:21:03 PM
With other offences yes.
Nothing relating to Maddie though.

Mr Wolters said it is likely Brueckner - who is now in solitary confinement at Oldenburg prison near Bremen, north-west Germany - will be charged early next year with other alleged offences in Portugal, including the rape of an Irish woman in the Algarve in 2004 and two incidents where he allegedly flashed at youngsters.


it's saying will be charged with other alleged offences,  'other' meaning offences other than Madeleine.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 01:23:36 PM
Mr Wolters said it is likely Brueckner - who is now in solitary confinement at Oldenburg prison near Bremen, north-west Germany - will be charged early next year with other alleged offences in Portugal, including the rape of an Irish woman in the Algarve in 2004 and two incidents where he allegedly flashed at youngsters.


it's saying will be charged with other alleged offences,  'other' meaning offences other than Madeleine.

IMO, Brueckner isn't being charged with anything relating to Maddie, ever, but some people still haven't caught up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 27, 2022, 01:26:16 PM
IMO, Brueckner isn't being charged with anything relating to Maddie, ever, but some people still haven't caught up.

But Mr Wolters said that with Brueckner currently serving seven years in a German jail for raping a pensioner in Praia da Luz, his team are taking their time to build as strong a case as possible against him before bringing charges.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on August 27, 2022, 01:28:00 PM
Mr Wolters said it is likely Brueckner - who is now in solitary confinement at Oldenburg prison near Bremen, north-west Germany - will be charged early next year with other alleged offences in Portugal, including the rape of an Irish woman in the Algarve in 2004 and two incidents where he allegedly flashed at youngsters.


it's saying will be charged with other alleged offences,  'other' meaning offences other than Madeleine.

Its no longer early in the year, unless of course he meant early autumn, did Wolters actually say it, or was it reported he did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 01:29:01 PM
But Mr Wolters said that with Brueckner currently serving seven years in a German jail for raping a pensioner in Praia da Luz, his team are taking their time to build as strong a case as possible against him before bringing charges.

Right, they've been investigating him for 5 years, so shouldn't be much longer now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on August 27, 2022, 01:32:08 PM
Right, they've been investigating him for 5 years, so shouldn't be much longer now.

They also have other investigations on the go at the same time
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2022, 01:33:42 PM
Portuguese police tried to quiz Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner after she vanished - but he was not at home when they visited and it is unknown if they tried again

23 June 2020

Disgraced former chief Goncalo Amaral, 60, who led the investigation in 2007, made the claim in an interview on Portuguese TV on Sunday night.

'I have been told by colleagues, who are retired like me, that they had come knocking on the door. That person was not at home.' Amaral said.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8450247/Portuguese-police-tried-quiz-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-vanished.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 01:48:24 PM
They also have other investigations on the go at the same time

Yeah, he might get done for a few rapes & exposures, but if you're thinking he'll be charged with abducting & murdering Maddie at any point in the future, well, good luck with that idea.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 01:49:58 PM
Portuguese police tried to quiz Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner after she vanished - but he was not at home when they visited and it is unknown if they tried again

23 June 2020

Disgraced former chief Goncalo Amaral, 60, who led the investigation in 2007, made the claim in an interview on Portuguese TV on Sunday night.

'I have been told by colleagues, who are retired like me, that they had come knocking on the door. That person was not at home.' Amaral said.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8450247/Portuguese-police-tried-quiz-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-vanished.html

He was probably out & about abducting & murdering kids & destroying the evidence, that'll be it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2022, 01:53:08 PM
Portuguese police tried to quiz Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner after she vanished - but he was not at home when they visited and it is unknown if they tried again

23 June 2020

The police chief, who is being sued by Kate and Gerry McCann, said he did not know if further inquiries were made after this first visit to Brueckner's house in Praia da Luz.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8450247/Portuguese-police-tried-quiz-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-vanished.html


Interesting that the police chief AKA co-ordinator Goncalo doesn't appear to have the foggiest about what was going on in the search for Madeleine.

Did his prejudices against Madeleine's parents and his insistence on testing his theories get in the way of proper investigation?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2022, 02:17:19 PM
Portuguese police tried to quiz Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner after she vanished - but he was not at home when they visited and it is unknown if they tried again

23 June 2020

Pressed on what Portuguese police knew about Brueckner's past around the time Madeleine disappeared, he appeared to admit Algarve authorities were aware of his 1994 teenage sexual conviction for molesting a six-year-old girl by confessing:

'At the time all we knew was that this man was a paedophile.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8450247/Portuguese-police-tried-quiz-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-vanished.html


Amaral admits that  ~ at the time ~  the Policia Judiciaria
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 27, 2022, 02:29:44 PM
Portuguese police tried to quiz Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner after she vanished - but he was not at home when they visited and it is unknown if they tried again

23 June 2020

Pressed on what Portuguese police knew about Brueckner's past around the time Madeleine disappeared, he appeared to admit Algarve authorities were aware of his 1994 teenage sexual conviction for molesting a six-year-old girl by confessing:

'At the time all we knew was that this man was a paedophile.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8450247/Portuguese-police-tried-quiz-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-vanished.html


Amaral admits that  ~ at the time ~  the Policia Judiciaria
  • knew about Brueckner
  • knew that Brueckner was a paedophile
  • despite Brueckner initially being on police radar - he was allowed to drop off and vanish
  • Amaral admits to knowing all of that but instead of chasing the criminal paedophile he set his sights on the innocent parents and embarked on persecuting them with an all consuming vengeance from that day to this
  • why did he chose that course of action when there wasn't one shred of evidence in justification at the time nor has there been any at any time over the intervening years

This sounds like a drowning squirt to me.  Drowning in his own lies.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 02:37:19 PM
Portuguese police tried to quiz Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner after she vanished - but he was not at home when they visited and it is unknown if they tried again

23 June 2020

Pressed on what Portuguese police knew about Brueckner's past around the time Madeleine disappeared, he appeared to admit Algarve authorities were aware of his 1994 teenage sexual conviction for molesting a six-year-old girl by confessing:

'At the time all we knew was that this man was a paedophile.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8450247/Portuguese-police-tried-quiz-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-vanished.html


Amaral admits that  ~ at the time ~  the Policia Judiciaria
  • knew about Brueckner
  • knew that Brueckner was a paedophile
  • despite Brueckner initially being on police radar - he was allowed to drop off and vanish
  • Amaral admits to knowing all of that but instead of chasing the criminal paedophile he set his sights on the innocent parents and embarked on persecuting them with an all consuming vengeance from that day to this
  • why did he chose that course of action when there wasn't one shred of evidence in justification at the time nor has there been any at any time over the intervening years

They had absolutely no evidence at all that he in particular could be responsible for Madeleine's dissappeance though.

Indeed, SY couldn't find any connection to him in the course of their investigation & neither could Wolters until Helge Busching gave the cops the weak ass rubbish that Brueckner talked about the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2022, 02:55:43 PM
This sounds like a drowning squirt to me.  Drowning in his own lies.

I think Amaral's working on an insanity plea because any time he opens he just drops himself further in it!

He has made it his mission without let up over the years to destroy the McCanns.

Now at the 11th hour, he freely admits to the knowledge of a paedophile who was neither traced at the time or looked for.

He knew that and admitted to the knowledge but continued to slur the McCanns at the same time with the most heinous crime.

What kind of person is this?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 03:00:56 PM
I think Amaral's working on an insanity plea because any time he opens he just drops himself further in it!

He has made it his mission without let up over the years to destroy the McCanns.

Now at the 11th hour, he freely admits to the knowledge of a paedophile who was neither traced at the time or looked for.

He knew that and admitted to the knowledge but continued to slur the McCanns at the same time with the most heinous crime.

What kind of person is this?

Someone who doesn't immediately believe the existence of paedophiles means Maddie was definitely abducted in the first place?

I mean, it's a bit of a mental leap really isn't it.

"Paedophiles exist therefore Maddie was abducted, Sherlock"

"Elementary, my dear Watson"
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2022, 03:01:28 PM
I know, Brueckner isn't being charged with anything relating to Maddie, ever, but some people still haven't caught up.

the very fact that you know....means you certainly dont
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2022, 03:01:47 PM
They had absolutely no evidence at all that he in particular could be responsible for Madeleine's dissappeance though.

Indeed, SY couldn't find any connection to him in the course of their investigation & neither could Wolters until Helge Busching gave the cops the weak ass rubbish that Brueckner talked about the case.

Amaral claims that the Policia Judiciaria actually knew about a paedophile who to all intents and purposes was on the run from 2007.

They kept all knowledge of his existence very close to their chest.  Are you disputing - Amaral's word - on this?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 03:02:27 PM
the vert fact that you know....means you certainly dont

Well get back to me when, won't you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 03:03:12 PM
Amaral claims that the Policia Judiciaria actually knew about a paedophile who to all intents and purposes was on the run from 2007.

They kept all knowledge of his existence very close to their chest.  Are you disputing - Amaral's word - on this?

Who were they supposed to have told?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 27, 2022, 03:04:31 PM
I think Amaral's working on an insanity plea because any time he opens he just drops himself further in it!

He has made it his mission without let up over the years to destroy the McCanns.

Now at the 11th hour, he freely admits to the knowledge of a paedophile who was neither traced at the time or looked for.

He knew that and admitted to the knowledge but continued to slur the McCanns at the same time with the most heinous crime.

What kind of person is this?

One of low intelligence, I would say.  But then none of the lower echelons of The PJ were ever very bright and so many of them have criminal convictions as well.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 03:06:25 PM
One of low intelligence, I would say.  But then none of the lower echelons of The PJ were ever very bright and so many of them have criminal convictions as well.

Yes, those of a much higher intelligence believe Kate's curtains unquestionably.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 27, 2022, 03:08:05 PM
Well get back to me when, won't you.

you dont know...lol...but you think you do......lol....   have you heard the story about the fool who thought he was wise
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 03:18:00 PM
you dont know...lol...but you think you do......lol....   have you heard the story about the fool who thought he was wise

Remember when you heard Wolters say he had concrete evidence & believed him?

Just got to get the Hazel Behan case out of the way, isn't it.

I'll be looking pretty foolish after that won't I , but not right now though, that's your territory for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2022, 03:28:01 PM
One of low intelligence, I would say.  But then none of the lower echelons of The PJ were ever very bright and so many of them have criminal convictions as well.

Amaral was pretty high ranking and I tended to think he couldn't be as stupid as his actions and pronouncements made him out to be and if not a genius made up for his deficiencies by utilising native cunning.

I've revised that.  Although at the moment I can't decide if it is stupidity which has been motivating him recently or sheer blind panic.  But whatever, I think we have witnesses a meltdown of sorts.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 27, 2022, 03:50:14 PM
Amaral was pretty high ranking and I tended to think he couldn't be as stupid as his actions and pronouncements made him out to be and if not a genius made up for his deficiencies by utilising native cunning.

I've revised that.  Although at the moment I can't decide if it is stupidity which has been motivating him recently or sheer blind panic.  But whatever, I think we have witnesses a meltdown of sorts.

Wasn't Sofia upset because he got past over for advancement?  It seems he had gone as far as he was going.  And definitely not in the same league as Rebelo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 03:52:12 PM
Amaral was pretty high ranking and I tended to think he couldn't be as stupid as his actions and pronouncements made him out to be and if not a genius made up for his deficiencies by utilising native cunning.

I've revised that.  Although at the moment I can't decide if it is stupidity which has been motivating him recently or sheer blind panic.  But whatever, I think we have witnesses a meltdown of sorts.

He's quiet now though, Amaral, doesn't have much to say at the moment.
Mind you, neither does Wolters either. He's probably drowning so much in abduction evidence that it's rendered him silent.
Yes, that's probably it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2022, 05:58:05 PM
He's quiet now though, Amaral, doesn't have much to say at the moment.
Mind you, neither does Wolters either. He's probably drowning so much in abduction evidence that it's rendered him silent.
Yes, that's probably it.

Let's put it this way.  Amaral had NO evidence against the McCanns whatsoever.  What passed for evidence as far as Amaral was concerned just wasn't.  Pathetic!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 27, 2022, 07:17:52 PM
Let's put it this way.  Amaral had NO evidence against the McCanns whatsoever.  What passed for evidence as far as Amaral was concerned just wasn't.  Pathetic!

How's the evidence against the abductor going, you know, seeing as though Amaral was wrong & there definitely was one?

The three police forces having much luck with that line of investigation are they?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 28, 2022, 12:01:05 AM
How's the evidence against the abductor going, you know, seeing as though Amaral was wrong & there definitely was one?

The three police forces having much luck with that line of investigation are they?

Methinks that SY are steadily progressing and they are looking for a MISSING Madeleine + global traffickers IMO
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 28, 2022, 06:41:35 AM
Methinks that SY are steadily progressing and they are looking for a MISSING Madeleine + global traffickers IMO
Sadie, Sadie... give me your answer do,
I'm half crazy all for those files of blue.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 28, 2022, 06:42:56 AM
... or cyan, turquoise, lavender... whatever!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G-tf2PG4dM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G-tf2PG4dM)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 28, 2022, 09:06:47 AM
Sadie, Sadie... give me your answer do,
I'm half crazy all for those files of blue.

We are told there is strong evidence of Madeleine's death.  We haven't seen it yet and until we know what it is and accept it I think we are entitled to hope for the best that Madeleine survived.  In their last official statement that's what her parents hope for too.   

Amaral fed negativity into every aspect of Madeleine's case with his insistence on 'the smell of death' behind the couch - on a shelf in a cupboard - outside the patio doors - in the garden - on a cuddly toy (eventually) - on items scattered willy nilly on the floor of a public gymnasium - on a key fob and in the boot of a car.  Not to mention his allusion to in transit body fluids sloshing over the front left wheel of the same vehicle.

I think that is probably worthy of ridicule were it just not so tragically wrong, giving whoever caused it over fifteen years to cover any tracks which were probably never to be found in 5A in the first instance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 28, 2022, 10:08:05 AM
I'm not bothered if anyone's interested in my posts.....I'm s much better informed poster than others...for instance I know the claim sceptics believe that Eddie had a 100% record is total BS...I know that because Grime has admitted it...I know Eddie isn't a reliable cadaver dog...because Grime said so...
All your suspicions and those of other sceptics are based on junk..I know that too

Ye Ye Ye....you know every thing MR ...but why get so irate.

So you think Grime put his career on the line by displaying what the dogs found on cloths ect.

His career would have been in shreds if maddie had been found.......but she wasnt was she.

IIRC his dogs were insured for a millon yet according to you even the dogs got it wrong ...both of them
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 28, 2022, 10:13:46 AM
Ye Ye Ye....you know every thing MR ...but why get so irate.

So you think Grime put his career on the line by displaying what the dogs found on cloths ect.

His career would have been in shreds if maddie had been found.......but she wasnt was she.

IIRC his dogs were insured for a millon yet according to you even the dogs got it wrong ...both of them

he didnt have a career in 2007...he was trying to build one. It was very unlikely MM would be found 3 months after he disappearance.

Lets look at the facts...there was no 100 % record....Grime has admitted eddie was not  arelaible cadaver dog...Grime never said a body had been found the apartment.

your opinions are based on lies...but you cannot see the truth
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 28, 2022, 10:48:00 AM
Ye Ye Ye....you know every thing MR ...but why get so irate.

So you think Grime put his career on the line by displaying what the dogs found on cloths ect.

His career would have been in shreds if maddie had been found.......but she wasnt was she.

IIRC his dogs were insured for a millon yet according to you even the dogs got it wrong ...both of them
His career wouldn’t have been in shreds if Madeleine had been found alive, in the same way as the dogs iin the Shannon Matthews case had an excuse, I’m sure Grime would have been able to come up with something else to explain the dog alerts, there were no doubt plenty of opportunities for contamination from other sources.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 28, 2022, 11:06:46 AM
he didnt have a career in 2007...he was trying to build one. It was very unlikely MM would be found 3 months after he disappearance.

Lets look at the facts...there was no 100 % record....Grime has admitted eddie was not  arelaible cadaver dog...Grime never said a body had been found the apartment.

your opinions are based on lies...but you cannot see the truth


your opinions are based on lies...but you cannot see the truth



Similar to you then....you have no evidence of what you post is the truth.....its only opinion
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on August 28, 2022, 11:07:28 AM
His career wouldn’t have been in shreds if Madeleine had been found alive, in the same way as the dogs iin the Shannon Matthews case had an excuse, I’m sure Grime would have been able to come up with something else to explain the dog alerts, there were no doubt plenty of opportunities for contamination from other sources.

probabilities again.....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 28, 2022, 11:12:48 AM
His career wouldn’t have been in shreds if Madeleine had been found alive, in the same way as the dogs iin the Shannon Matthews case had an excuse, I’m sure Grime would have been able to come up with something else to explain the dog alerts, there were no doubt plenty of opportunities for contamination from other sources.

The other places searched by the dogs triggered no alerts at all. Why would 5A be the only place contaminated I wonder.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 28, 2022, 11:24:20 AM
The other places searched by the dogs triggered no alerts at all. Why would 5A be the only place contaminated I wonder.

perhaps it wasnt...you are making an asumption that the dog alerted to cadaver odour....grime never claimed they did...in fact he now says eddie was not a reliable cadaver dog
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 28, 2022, 11:37:01 AM
 &%54% *%87

your opinions are based on lies...but you cannot see the truth



Similar to you then....you have no evidence of what you post is the truth.....its only opinion

You are showing your ignorance.

There is no 100% record

Grime said Eddie was not a reliable cadaver dog

Those are facts...not opinions
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on August 28, 2022, 11:39:44 AM
The other places searched by the dogs triggered no alerts at all. Why would 5A be the only place contaminated I wonder.

This has been explained multiple times...even the pj said grime called the dogs back multiple times before alerting to spots they had previously ignored
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 28, 2022, 11:55:10 AM
The other places searched by the dogs triggered no alerts at all. Why would 5A be the only place contaminated I wonder.
many possible reasons, been through them many times before and you would no doubt reject them all if I were to go through them again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on August 28, 2022, 02:48:15 PM
The other places searched by the dogs triggered no alerts at all. Why would 5A be the only place contaminated I wonder.

Dog 'alerts' mean absolutely nothing on their own unless corroborated by evidence.  What is it you fail to understand about that fact.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 28, 2022, 03:51:29 PM
Sadie, Sadie... give me your answer do,
I'm half crazy all for those files of blue.

Soz darling but I can't oblige.

You said you were going to set the shelf with the Lavender folder on, afire some time ago.  Surely your wizardry didn't fail you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 28, 2022, 04:54:05 PM


I don't understand what we are talking about anymore.  The Dogs proved nothing, which was long ago proven.
 
Martin Grime was a chancer, seeking to establish some credibility for his own business opportunities after a career  of nothing much at all.
 
He was given the dogs because they were no longer of any use.  He then took these dogs to Praia da Luz and then used them shamelessly.

This man has a lot to answer for.

Amaral will also have to answer one day..  And  probably for the same reasons.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 28, 2022, 05:19:54 PM
Soz darling but I can't oblige.

You said you were going to set the shelf with the Lavender folder on, afire some time ago.  Surely your wizardry didn't fail you?
That wasn't me, Sweetie!  Herr Gen, who's currently keeping the reds at bay in Ukraine, thought OG were going to bin or burn 'em... one or t'other.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 28, 2022, 06:24:43 PM
That wasn't me, Sweetie!  Herr Gen, who's currently keeping the reds at bay in Ukraine, thought OG were going to bin or burn 'em... one or t'other.

I thought that you were a really nice man.  Not that it matters of course.  You have never said what you believe and nor should you have to.  But mocking Sadie is a really horrible thing to do.  Try having a go at me.  But you won't do that because I will fight back

But these attacks on Sadie will stop Now.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 28, 2022, 06:55:33 PM
I thought that you were a really nice man.  Not that it matters of course.  You have never said what you believe and nor should you have to.  But mocking Sadie is a really horrible thing to do.  Try having a go at me.  But you won't do that because I will fight back

But these attacks on Sadie will stop Now.
I've stated what I believe in the past but you've obviously missed it.   I'm neither supporter nor sceptic, but I do want to see this case resolved at the earliest opportunity and it appears the BKA are well on the way to achieving that.

And it would help if you stopped kowtowing to everything that sadie comes out with (just because she's your friend), which in my opinion is mostly drivel... poisonous adders, attempted motorway assassination, illusory folders appearing on Crimewatch, a ludicrous accusation that I fiddle about with her internet access, photos disappearing off here deliberately, and her misguided attempts to discover who I am, such as a leader of an anti-McCann gang that I never even knew the existence of.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on August 28, 2022, 07:28:59 PM
Ye Ye Ye....you know every thing MR ...but why get so irate.

So you think Grime put his career on the line by displaying what the dogs found on cloths ect.

His career would have been in shreds if maddie had been found.......but she wasnt was she.

IIRC his dogs were insured for a millon yet according to you even the dogs got it wrong ...both of them


No his career wouldn't have been in shreds as he would say exactly what he said in the Netflix interview that the scents could have been ancient well before the McCanns stayed in 5a.


Handler Martin said the dogs' sensitive noses could have been picking scents from long before the McCanns stayed at the apartment or used the car.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 28, 2022, 08:12:04 PM
I've stated what I believe in the past but you've obviously missed it.   I'm neither supporter nor sceptic, but I do want to see this case resolved at the earliest opportunity and it appears the BKA are well on the way to achieving that.

And it would help if you stopped kowtowing to everything that sadie comes out with (just because she's your friend), which in my opinion is mostly drivel... poisonous adders, attempted motorway assassination, illusory folders appearing on Crimewatch, a ludicrous accusation that I fiddle about with her internet access, photos disappearing off here deliberately, and her misguided attempts to discover who I am, such as a leader of an anti-McCann gang that I never even knew the existence of.

More insults of Sadie.   Why does she bother you so much?  You know nothing of my relationship with her and I wouldn't tell you if there was one.

I don't have "Friends" on this Forum.  In fact, I don't have friends at all.  I just loathe bullying. Just read what you said.  You started this.

Meanwhile most of us do our best, although it does get a bit shirty now and again.  This does't bother me.  Any one can insult me any time they please, should they be able.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 28, 2022, 08:34:09 PM
More insults of Sadie.   Why does she bother you so much?  You know nothing of my relationship with her and I wouldn't tell you if there was one.

I don't have "Friends" on this Forum.  In fact, I don't have friends at all.  I just loathe bullying. Just read what you said.  You started this.

Meanwhile most of us do our best, although it does get a bit shirty now and again.  This does't bother me.  Any one can insult me any time they please, should they be able.
Insults?... they are truths, but you are totally incapable of seeing them, so I'm not wasting the rest of this evening on a pointless tit-for-tat.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 28, 2022, 09:15:19 PM
Insults?... they are truths, but you are totally incapable of seeing them, so I'm not wasting the rest of this evening on a pointless tit-for-tat.

There us nothing to say to that.  But then there never is with gratuitous stupidity.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on August 28, 2022, 09:23:39 PM
There us nothing to say to that.  But then there never is with gratuitous stupidity.
Especially yours... BFN.  Over and out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 28, 2022, 10:05:23 PM
Especially

H yours... BFN.  Over and out.
,

You see,  You can't even help yourself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 28, 2022, 10:27:07 PM
Entertaining as it is to watch moderators arguing, it doesn't set a good example, does it? It's off topic too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on August 28, 2022, 10:48:15 PM
Entertaining as it is to watch moderators arguing, it doesn't set a good example, does it? It's off topic too.

Coming from you then that is hilarious.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on August 28, 2022, 11:49:11 PM
Coming from you then that is hilarious.

I find your arguing hilarious too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on August 29, 2022, 03:29:11 AM
I've stated what I believe in the past but you've obviously missed it.   I'm neither supporter nor sceptic, but I do want to see this case resolved at the earliest opportunity and it appears the BKA are well on the way to achieving that.

And it would help if you stopped kowtowing to everything that sadie comes out with (just because she's your friend), which in my opinion is mostly drivel... poisonous adders, attempted motorway assassination, illusory folders appearing on Crimewatch, a ludicrous accusation that I fiddle about with her internet access, photos disappearing off here deliberately, and her misguided attempts to discover who I am, such as a leader of an anti-McCann gang that I never even knew the existence of.


1.  Venemous snake bite, (unlikely to be an adder) = true.  Had a belated anti-tet injection at Hospital
2.  Shot at on M5 = True.   Black bullet shot back from a passing car hit the reinforced area of my cars bumper which w was pretty close to my nearside front wheel.  There is a police Incident report
3.  The folders were not illusionary, we all saw them if we cared to look ... altho by some jiggery pokery their colour changed from Lavender to aquamarine(ish)
4.  Photos disappearing from here.   The whole thread based on big hearts being painted on walls near Casa Pia, suddenly lost its photos.  All the hearts gone and it appeared that they were symbols for p**dos to find the poor boys (and probably girls cos I have now found a place almost adjacent where I believe girls lived)    You were very charming to me when almost singlehandedly we produced this thread     Interestingly all the hearts have also vanished in real life.   Been cleared out. *%6^
5.  I know who you are, same as you know who I am.
6.  Three times, whilst on this forum I have been threatened with death by gun
7.  There are dozens of other things that have happened to me additionally, but I haven't bored you with them.

I still live,
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 11, 2022, 12:00:03 PM

No his career wouldn't have been in shreds as he would say exactly what he said in the Netflix interview that the scents could have been ancient well before the McCanns stayed in 5a.


Handler Martin said the dogs' sensitive noses could have been picking scents from long before the McCanns stayed at the apartment or used the car.


Handler Martin said the dogs' sensitive noses could have been picking scents from long before

So, you do agree that the dogs did pick up scent ....they wasn't wrong.

So does that go for the car.... key fob and clothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 11, 2022, 01:11:33 PM

Handler Martin said the dogs' sensitive noses could have been picking scents from long before

So, you do agree that the dogs did pick up scent ....they wasn't wrong.

So does that go for the car.... key fob and clothing.

the dog alerts are an absolute load of rubbish....grime has admitted now eddie could not be considered reliabe
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 11, 2022, 02:06:38 PM

Handler Martin said the dogs' sensitive noses could have been picking scents from long before

So, you do agree that the dogs did pick up scent ....they wasn't wrong.

So does that go for the car.... key fob and clothing.

That was a quote from Martin Grime not me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on September 11, 2022, 04:00:53 PM
the dog alerts are an absolute load of rubbish....grime has admitted now eddie could not be considered reliabe

Someone actually said on a FB group that even though MG said their is a possibility of mishandling the dogs for a false positive, they thought it was more offensive to say that than it is fpr someone to state u covered up ur daughters death and or killed them without being charged. Level of people you deal with. They r so convinced they r far past david icke.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 11, 2022, 04:15:48 PM
Someone actually said on a FB group that even though MG said their is a possibility of mishandling the dogs for a false positive, they thought it was more offensive to say that than it is fpr someone to state u covered up ur daughters death and or killed them without being charged. Level of people you deal with. They r so convinced they r far past david icke.

Grime hs explained what he means by a false positive...and it isn't what sceptics think..it's not a false alert
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on September 11, 2022, 04:23:12 PM
Grime hs explained what he means by a false positive...and it isn't what sceptics think..it's not a false alert

He did say it can be by handling skills i think and it could be the dog handlers mistake for a bark. Just the level of ppl who think that is more offensive to say
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 11, 2022, 04:42:28 PM
That was a quote from Martin Grime not me.


Ye, I know....but it was you who posted it L... so what was your point.

My point was .....[so he said it could be ancient]... not the dogs didn't find any sent at all.

So ancient sent or not ...the dogs did find something ...they wasn't wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 11, 2022, 05:31:06 PM

Ye, I know....but it was you who posted it L... so what was your point.

My point was .....[so he said it could be ancient]... not the dogs didn't find any sent at all.

So ancient sent or not ...the dogs did find something ...they wasn't wrong.

Who says the dogs found something..no one really knows

Grime was trying to build his cadaver alert business so it's fair to say he may well have overestimated the dogs abilities..but the dogs did not have a 100% record and it is a lie to say they've never had a false alert in 200 cases...a total lie
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on September 11, 2022, 05:47:25 PM
Who says the dogs found something..no one really knows

Grime was trying to build his cadaver alert business so it's fair to say he may well have overestimated the dogs abilities..but the dogs did not have a 100% record and it is a lie to say they've never had a false alert in 200 cases...a total lie

The dogs have never been even involved in 200 cases. Merely impossible. Was around 17 and 21 with SY police. Then freelanced elsewhere out of uk shores, maybe another 6 or 7 times.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 12, 2022, 09:26:21 AM
Who says the dogs found something..no one really knows

Grime was trying to build his cadaver alert business so it's fair to say he may well have overestimated the dogs abilities..but the dogs did not have a 100% record and it is a lie to say they've never had a false alert in 200 cases...a total lie


Who says the dogs found something..no one really knows



Well according to the  post from L

Handler Martin said the dogs' sensitive noses could have been picking scents from long before the McCanns stayed at the apartment or used the car.

So seems the dogs were not wrong.

As for grime overestimating the dogs to build up his business ....he wouldn't have got very far if maddie had been found with a loving couple.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 12, 2022, 09:48:04 AM

Ye, I know....but it was you who posted it L... so what was your point.

My point was .....[so he said it could be ancient]... not the dogs didn't find any sent at all.

So ancient sent or not ...the dogs did find something ...they wasn't wrong.


You posted that Grime's career would have been in shreds if it was proven the dogs didn't alert.

I pointed out that it wouldn't be in shreds as he would say exactly what he said for the Netflix documentary, that they could have been alerting to ancient scents.   That would be his excuse.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 12, 2022, 09:50:29 AM

Who says the dogs found something..no one really knows



Well according to the  post from L

Handler Martin said the dogs' sensitive noses could have been picking scents from long before the McCanns stayed at the apartment or used the car.

So seems the dogs were not wrong.

As for grime overestimating the dogs to build up his business ....he wouldn't have got very far if maddie had been found with a loving couple.

It doesn't prove the dogs weren't wrong at all.   It's an excuse if the dogs alert are to be found to be wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 12, 2022, 09:53:43 AM

Who says the dogs found something..no one really knows



Well according to the  post from L

Handler Martin said the dogs' sensitive noses could have been picking scents from long before the McCanns stayed at the apartment or used the car.

So seems the dogs were not wrong.

As for grime overestimating the dogs to build up his business ....he wouldn't have got very far if maddie had been found with a loving couple.
"could have been" doesn't mean "was".  It's called hedging your bets, getting your ducks in a row in case it all goes Pete Tong and Madeleine turned up alive, or not to have been killed in the apartment after all. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 12, 2022, 10:17:28 AM
It doesn't prove the dogs weren't wrong at all.   It's an excuse if the dogs alert are to be found to be wrong.

Does that include car ...keys... k cloths ect ect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 12, 2022, 10:19:16 AM
"could have been" doesn't mean "was".  It's called hedging your bets, getting your ducks in a row in case it all goes Pete Tong and Madeleine turned up alive, or not to have been killed in the apartment after all.

Ok VS thanks for your opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 12, 2022, 11:47:20 AM
It doesn't prove the dogs weren't wrong at all.   It's an excuse if the dogs alert are to be found to be wrong.

Martin Grime didn't need an excuse. He never made any claims which needed excusing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2022, 11:54:35 AM

Who says the dogs found something..no one really knows



Well according to the  post from L

Handler Martin said the dogs' sensitive noses could have been picking scents from long before the McCanns stayed at the apartment or used the car.

So seems the dogs were not wrong.

As for grime overestimating the dogs to build up his business ....he wouldn't have got very far if maddie had been found with a loving couple.
Grime had his excuse ready....and he now says. Eddie was not reliable..alerts..junk
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 12, 2022, 12:18:50 PM
Martin Grime didn't need an excuse. He never made any claims which needed excusing.

Just innuendo which he very much later clarified.  Poor old Eddie just wasn't up to the job by no fault of his.  A lot of us already knew that.
As was Goncalo Amaral.  Thick as planks and twice as stupid.  And still trying to interfere with The Course of Justice.  Why is Portugal doing nothing about this?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 12, 2022, 12:25:58 PM
Martin Grime didn't need an excuse. He never made any claims which needed excusing.
Right, but so many sceptics still don't get it.  They say "dogs don't lie" and nor do their handlers, even unconsciously. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2022, 12:40:19 PM
Martin Grime didn't need an excuse. He never made any claims which needed excusing.

He claims the dogs only alerted to things McCann
He claims Eddie showed an immediate interest in 5a
he claimed he didnt know the renault belonged to the Mccans...probably more if I checked
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 12, 2022, 01:51:29 PM
He claims the dogs only alerted to things McCann
He claims Eddie showed an immediate interest in 5a
he claimed he didnt know the renault belonged to the Mccans...probably more if I checked

None of which you can disprove.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 12, 2022, 02:14:32 PM
None of which you can disprove.
You said he didn’t make claims, Davrl can prove that he did.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on September 12, 2022, 03:07:16 PM
Right, but so many sceptics still don't get it.  They say "dogs don't lie" and nor do their handlers, even unconsciously.

Still goes on to this day lol
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 12, 2022, 03:19:34 PM
He claims the dogs only alerted to things McCann
He claims Eddie showed an immediate interest in 5a
he claimed he didnt know the renault belonged to the Mccans...probably more if I checked

So he wasn't making excuses at all ....as L claims in her post, he was.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Rossb on September 12, 2022, 03:24:26 PM
Thanks honestbroker if you see this haha
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2022, 04:26:42 PM
None of which you can disprove.
And none of which he can prove.
Tell me...was he the special advisor to the FBI canine programme or a special advisor...he claims both.
I wonder if he was either
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2022, 04:29:06 PM
So he wasn't making excuses at all ....as L claims in her post, he was.
He showed thr alerts could not be relied upon..

Sceptics don't believe Wolters..I don't believe Grime
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2022, 04:31:36 PM
None of which you can disprove.
And Kate saw an open window snd Wolters has concrete evidence....neither can you disprove
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 12, 2022, 06:28:22 PM
And Kate saw an open window snd Wolters has concrete evidence....neither can you disprove

Or, neither can you prove.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 12, 2022, 06:40:21 PM
Does that include car ...keys... k cloths ect ect.

Sorry talking about Eddie not Keela.

The clothes?  That couldn't be classed as an alert,  Eddie picked up the clothes playing with them.

The car key was Gerry's blood.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 12, 2022, 06:42:29 PM
What if the alerts in 5a are proven to be wrong.   How can Grime explain that no other apartments had an alert not even from ancient scents.   No blood ever spilt in any of the other apartments. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2022, 06:51:14 PM
Or, neither can you prove.

Thats the point I'm making..you, gunit and the other sceptics just believe grime eve n though he cannot prove anything...as for his career...he doesn't seem to have had one since Luz
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on September 12, 2022, 07:33:24 PM
What if the alerts in 5a are proven to be wrong.   How can Grime explain that no other apartments had an alert not even from ancient scents.   No blood ever spilt in any of the other apartments. 

Doesn't look much like he'll need to do any explaining anytime soon.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 13, 2022, 09:21:49 AM
Pity Grime didn't mention the fact that Eddie could be alerting to ancient scents from before the McCann's arrived.

I don't even see the point of bringing the dogs if that is the case.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 13, 2022, 09:54:23 AM
What if the alerts in 5a are proven to be wrong.   How can Grime explain that no other apartments had an alert not even from ancient scents.   No blood ever spilt in any of the other apartments.


Well it tells you whatever you chose it to mean...not that there was nothing there.

Two highly trained dogs IIRC insured for a million pound both apparently got it wrong.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 13, 2022, 09:55:40 AM
Thats the point I'm making..you, gunit and the other sceptics just believe grime eve n though he cannot prove anything...as for his career...he doesn't seem to have had one since Luz

he doesn't seem to have had one since Luz

You see you don't know for sure that either.

Is there anything to prove what you posted like maddie case ruined M G career.

It wasn't GA who brought them in either.



Martin Grime
UK NPIA Registered Subject Matter Expert
FBI Forensic Canine Program Specialist Adviser


OPERATION TASK


Personal profile


I am an U.K.A.C.P.O. accredited police dog training instructor in post at the Operational Support Services. I am a Subject Matter Expert registered with N.C.P.E. and specialist homicide canine search advisor. In support of the national Homicide Search Advisor, Mark Harrison, I advise Domestic and International Law enforcement agencies on the operational deployment of Police Dogs in the role of Homicide investigation. I develop methods of detecting forensically recoverable evidence by the use of dogs and facilitate training.

I am a Special Advisor to The U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in relation to their Canine Forensic Program.

I am regularly deployed to assist in high profile homicide cases within my portfolio and form a 'Specialist Canine Homicide Search Team' including the S.A.M dog teams from Dyfed Powys.

My core role includes the training and operational handling of specialist search dogs in the fields of Human Victim Recovery and Forensic Crime Scene Investigation.

I have trained and handle two operational specialist search dogs. 'Eddie' is a 7-year old English Springer spaniel dog. 'Keela' is a three-year old English Springer spaniel pregnant dog. I also have a six-month old English Springer spaniel dog, puppy, in training, 'Morse' .

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2022, 10:22:43 AM
he doesn't seem to have had one since Luz

You see you don't know for sure that either.

Is there anything to prove what you posted like maddie case ruined M G career.

It wasn't GA who brought them in either.



Martin Grime
UK NPIA Registered Subject Matter Expert
FBI Forensic Canine Program Specialist Adviser


OPERATION TASK


Personal profile


I am an U.K.A.C.P.O. accredited police dog training instructor in post at the Operational Support Services. I am a Subject Matter Expert registered with N.C.P.E. and specialist homicide canine search advisor. In support of the national Homicide Search Advisor, Mark Harrison, I advise Domestic and International Law enforcement agencies on the operational deployment of Police Dogs in the role of Homicide investigation. I develop methods of detecting forensically recoverable evidence by the use of dogs and facilitate training.

I am a Special Advisor to The U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in relation to their Canine Forensic Program.

I am regularly deployed to assist in high profile homicide cases within my portfolio and form a 'Specialist Canine Homicide Search Team' including the S.A.M dog teams from Dyfed Powys.

My core role includes the training and operational handling of specialist search dogs in the fields of Human Victim Recovery and Forensic Crime Scene Investigation.

I have trained and handle two operational specialist search dogs. 'Eddie' is a 7-year old English Springer spaniel dog. 'Keela' is a three-year old English Springer spaniel pregnant dog. I also have a six-month old English Springer spaniel dog, puppy, in training, 'Morse' .



The million pound Ins is a lie..you won't be able to supply a cite
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2022, 10:57:52 AM
Thats the point I'm making..you, gunit and the other sceptics just believe grime eve n though he cannot prove anything...as for his career...he doesn't seem to have had one since Luz

I wonder how Grime and Eddie found themselves on the Orkney isle of Sanday in 2009 finding the body of Robert Rose then? Perhaps the UK police called him in because he was still valued despite no longer being employed by the police. That doesn't sound to me like someone who didn't have a career.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2022, 11:46:04 AM
I wonder how Grime and Eddie found themselves on the Orkney isle of Sanday in 2009 finding the body of Robert Rose then? Perhaps the UK police called him in because he was still valued despite no longer being employed by the police. That doesn't sound to me like someone who didn't have a career.
One or two jobs doesn't make a career.....as I recall Eddie didn't find the body.
Scotland doesn't seem to have any trained cadaver dogs..or perhaps grime was more available and cheaper.
....perhaps the Scottish police believe in all the hype.

Grime now admits  Eddie could not be described as reliable
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 13, 2022, 12:32:09 PM
One or two jobs doesn't make a career.....as I recall Eddie didn't find the body.
Scotland doesn't seem to have any trained cadaver dogs..or perhaps grime was more available and cheaper.
....perhaps the Scottish police believe in all the hype.

Grime now admits  Eddie could not be described as reliable



Wasn't only one or two jobs though was it ...as I said it wasn't G A who brought them in.

Yet the dogs earning £200.000 a year are supposed to have got it so wrong in the mccs case.


A dog who was 'earning' more money than her force's Chief Constable has been brought in to help Portuguese police in their hunt for missing Madeleine McCann.
 
Specially-trained Keela was flown to Praia da Luz in the Algarve last week because she can detect human blood - even after items have been cleaned or washed many times.
 
Keela, and another English springer spaniel called Eddie, have now both been enlisted in the hunt for the missing four-year-old.
 
Keela hit the headlines two years ago because she was earning more than her force's Chief Constable.
 
The South Yorkshire Police dog has already helped forces across the country, including working on the high-profile stabbing of pregnant mother Abigail Witchalls in Surrey, and was being hired out for £530 per day, plus expenses.
 
Back then she would have been earning almost £200,000 - around £70,000 more than her force's Chief Constable - if she worked every day of the year.
 
She has been trained to ignore decomposing body materials other than human blood.
 
And instead of barking when she smells blood, she has been trained to have a "passive" alert - freezing with her nose as near to the subject matter as possible without touching, to enable scientists to recover the sample quickly and efficiently.
 
This technique has saved time and money on major investigations.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 13, 2022, 01:25:20 PM
Grime seems to have given up on cadaver dog services and spends most of his time training puppies these days.  It’s probably a wise move.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2022, 02:23:57 PM


Wasn't only one or two jobs though was it ...as I said it wasn't G A who brought them in.

Yet the dogs earning £200.000 a year are supposed to have got it so wrong in the mccs case.


A dog who was 'earning' more money than her force's Chief Constable has been brought in to help Portuguese police in their hunt for missing Madeleine McCann.
 
Specially-trained Keela was flown to Praia da Luz in the Algarve last week because she can detect human blood - even after items have been cleaned or washed many times.
 
Keela, and another English springer spaniel called Eddie, have now both been enlisted in the hunt for the missing four-year-old.
 
Keela hit the headlines two years ago because she was earning more than her force's Chief Constable.
 
The South Yorkshire Police dog has already helped forces across the country, including working on the high-profile stabbing of pregnant mother Abigail Witchalls in Surrey, and was being hired out for £530 per day, plus expenses.
 
Back then she would have been earning almost £200,000 - around £70,000 more than her force's Chief Constable - if she worked every day of the year.
 
She has been trained to ignore decomposing body materials other than human blood.
 
And instead of barking when she smells blood, she has been trained to have a "passive" alert - freezing with her nose as near to the subject matter as possible without touching, to enable scientists to recover the sample quickly and efficiently.
 
This technique has saved time and money on major investigations.


the dogs didnt  earn 200,000 a year...you are believing a load of twaddle..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2022, 02:27:47 PM
One or two jobs doesn't make a career.....as I recall Eddie didn't find the body.
Scotland doesn't seem to have any trained cadaver dogs..or perhaps grime was more available and cheaper.
....perhaps the Scottish police believe in all the hype.

Grime now admits  Eddie could not be described as reliable

Your arrogance is unbelievable. You have no idea what Grime was doing when he wasn't being reported in the press.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2022, 02:34:29 PM
Your arrogance is unbelievable. You have no idea what Grime was doing when he wasn't being reported in the press.

you are mistaking arrogance for knowledge...I'm flattered...but then again I already know how vast my knowledge is of Grime and his dogs
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 13, 2022, 03:03:10 PM
you are mistaking arrogance for knowledge...I'm flattered...but then again I already know how vast my knowledge is of Grime and his dogs

Oh. there is a pattern here MR you know everything....nothing to do with knowledge Im afraid .


What is the true meaning of arrogance?
1 : exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner an arrogant official. 2 : showing an offensive attitude of superiority : proceeding from or characterized by arrogance an arrogant reply.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2022, 03:12:13 PM
Oh. there is a pattern here MR you know everything....nothing to do with knowledge Im afraid .


What is the true meaning of arrogance?
1 : exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner an arrogant official. 2 : showing an offensive attitude of superiority : proceeding from or characterized by arrogance an arrogant reply.


youve claimed dogs insured for a million...and the earn 200k per year....both wrong...my knowledge corrects you
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 13, 2022, 05:18:16 PM
youve claimed dogs insured for a million...and the earn 200k per year....both wrong...my knowledge corrects you

It isnt me you should be correcting.

The original point was how can two top class trained dogs get it so wrong ....as you continually claim.

In an earlier post you said "Grime had his excuse ready"...but what would the reason be for doing that.

He obviously it seems -  knew maddie was not going to be found alive.



- There are signs of death in Apartment 5A. It's necessary to confirm that, prior to 3 May, no one had died there. The OC has no records of anything like that, nor the fire department, nor the paramedics, nor the prior apt owners knew of any death in the apt.

- It is concluded, therefore, that the cadaver odor could only come from one person: Madeleine Beth McCann
 
Findings, as detailed in the PJ's 57-page report summary
 
1 - Apartment 5A, of the resort 'Ocean Club', place from where the child disappeared.

- cadaver odour dog:
*in the couple’s bedroom, in a corner, close to the wardrobe;
*in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment;
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2022, 06:09:48 PM
It isnt me you should be correcting.

The original point was how can two top class trained dogs get it so wrong ....as you continually claim.

In an earlier post you said "Grime had his excuse ready"...but what would the reason be for doing that.

He obviously it seems -  knew maddie was not going to be found alive.



- There are signs of death in Apartment 5A. It's necessary to confirm that, prior to 3 May, no one had died there. The OC has no records of anything like that, nor the fire department, nor the paramedics, nor the prior apt owners knew of any death in the apt.

- It is concluded, therefore, that the cadaver odor could only come from one person: Madeleine Beth McCann
 
Findings, as detailed in the PJ's 57-page report summary
 
1 - Apartment 5A, of the resort 'Ocean Club', place from where the child disappeared.

- cadaver odour dog:
*in the couple’s bedroom, in a corner, close to the wardrobe;
*in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment;

I've been called arrogant so it's reasonable to refer to you as ignorant..ignorant of the facts.

You believe a load of twaddle.

It is not a fact there was a cadaver in 5a......even grime doesnt say that.

All my post is fact..
No opinion...you need to understand the truth..you don't
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2022, 06:13:49 PM
It isnt me you should be correcting.

The original point was how can two top class trained dogs get it so wrong ....as you continually claim.

In an earlier post you said "Grime had his excuse ready"...but what would the reason be for doing that.

He obviously it seems -  knew maddie was not going to be found alive.



- There are signs of death in Apartment 5A. It's necessary to confirm that, prior to 3 May, no one had died there. The OC has no records of anything like that, nor the fire department, nor the paramedics, nor the prior apt owners knew of any death in the apt.

- It is concluded, therefore, that the cadaver odor could only come from one person: Madeleine Beth McCann
 
Findings, as detailed in the PJ's 57-page report summary
 
1 - Apartment 5A, of the resort 'Ocean Club', place from where the child disappeared.

- cadaver odour dog:
*in the couple’s bedroom, in a corner, close to the wardrobe;
*in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment;

Eddie was not a top trained dog.....according to grime...unreliable...according to grime....no opinion...facts
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2022, 06:17:35 PM
you are mistaking arrogance for knowledge...I'm flattered...but then again I already know how vast my knowledge is of Grime and his dogs

What knowledge? You have speculated that Grime had no career after Luz, but three years later he was still working for the UK police. Your vast knowledge is mostly opinion and speculation imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2022, 06:21:29 PM
What knowledge? You have speculated that Grime had no career after Luz, but three years later he was still working for the UK police. Your vast knowledge is mostly opinion and speculation imo.

Another post full of junk...you cannot answer any of the facts I have given. ...because they are true facts...you resort to attacking me...try coming up with some facts yourself..
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2022, 06:25:17 PM
What knowledge? You have speculated that Grime had no career after Luz, but three years later he was still working for the UK police. Your vast knowledge is mostly opinion and speculation imo.

Do I need to post the facts about Grime and his unreliable cadaver dog again
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2022, 06:29:25 PM
What knowledge? You have speculated that Grime had no career after Luz, but three years later he was still working for the UK police. Your vast knowledge is mostly opinion and speculation imo.

You.must understand that to say my posts Re Grime are mostly speculation and opinion is a blatant lie
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2022, 09:00:44 AM
My posts need to br dren in context.
Both guniy and kizzy have said I'm arrogant...that's ad hom and against forum rules...from a mod too.
Gunit dsys most of my posts are opinion and speculation...that is not true and gunit should apologise

My posts te Grimr are almost entirely factual backed by proof...if its opinion I make that clear.
I think sceptics just find it difficult to accept the truth
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2022, 10:16:09 AM
My posts need to br dren in context.
Both guniy and kizzy have said I'm arrogant...that's ad hom and against forum rules...from a mod too.
Gunit dsys most of my posts are opinion and speculation...that is not true and gunit should apologise

My posts te Grimr are almost entirely factual backed by proof...if its opinion I make that clear.
I think sceptics just find it difficult to accept the truth

Don't you think its arrogant to call me ignorant ...just because my opinion differs to yours. MR.

To label post junk twaddle etc etc....just because you think your right....

I would say that was arrogant....to insult there opinion...just because of yours

There are a lot of people who do not believe the mccs version of events.

Your flying the flag for HCW an his concrete evidence...well a lot don't believe that either.

I notice you go on a lot to discredit Eddie....but what about Keela the CSI dog.

Keela hit the headlines two years ago because she was earning more than her force's Chief Constable.

It appears highly likely that Keela was the dog who was brought in by British detectives last week who located tiny traces of blood in the McCanns' apartment despite alleged attempts to wash them off.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 14, 2022, 10:33:55 AM
Don't you think its arrogant to call me ignorant ...just because my opinion differs to yours. MR.

To label post junk twaddle etc etc....just because you think your right....

I would say that was arrogant....to insult there opinion...just because of yours

There are a lot of people who do not believe the mccs version of events.

Your flying the flag for HCW an his concrete evidence...well a lot don't believe that either.

I notice you go on a lot to discredit Eddie....but what about Keela the CSI dog.

Keela hit the headlines two years ago because she was earning more than her force's Chief Constable.

It appears highly likely that Keela was the dog who was brought in by British detectives last week who located tiny traces of blood in the McCanns' apartment despite alleged attempts to wash them off.

what are these alleged attempts to wash them off of which you speak?  Are you regurgitating quotes from long discredited newspaper articles now?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2022, 10:45:12 AM
Don't you think its arrogant to call me ignorant ...just because my opinion differs to yours. MR.

To label post junk twaddle etc etc....just because you think your right....

I would say that was arrogant....to insult there opinion...just because of yours

There are a lot of people who do not believe the mccs version of events.

Your flying the flag for HCW an his concrete evidence...well a lot don't believe that either.

I notice you go on a lot to discredit Eddie....but what about Keela the CSI dog.

Keela hit the headlines two years ago because she was earning more than her force's Chief Constable.

It appears highly likely that Keela was the dog who was brought in by British detectives last week who located tiny traces of blood in the McCanns' apartment despite alleged attempts to wash them off.


I called you ignorant after you and gunit referred to me as arrogant.
you need to understand that most ofwhat i have posted re Grime...is true...so I am right and I can support it all with proof...so i dont think im right...I am right.




you on the other hand are continually wrong...eddie is not insured for a million pounds and does not earn 200k per year...so your post is twaddle

whats all this about attempts to wash blood off...wheres that from...or is it more twaddle

sceptics believe a lot of twaddle....the sort of things you post and think are true
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2022, 11:36:37 AM
I called you ignorant after you and gunit referred to me as arrogant.
you need to understand that most ofwhat i have posted re Grime...is true...so I am right and I can support it all with proof...so i dont think im right...I am right.




you on the other hand are continually wrong...eddie is not insured for a million pounds and does not earn 200k per year...so your post is twaddle

whats all this about attempts to wash blood off...wheres that from...or is it more twaddle

sceptics believe a lot of twaddle....the sort of things you post and think are true

I'm not  concerned you call me ignorant ....although it sounds you are at being called arrogant.

It is easy to say you have proof what you say and what you have are two different things.

The one big massive fact here is no one ...no one has the proof of what happened to maddie.

IMO it is all still wide open as to who was responsible ...no concrete evidence to date.

You should just get over the fact that you think you know more than anyone else...you dont.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 14, 2022, 11:50:28 AM
The only opinion that really counts for anything at all atm is the person or people with ALL the available evidence at their disposal.  We only have their words to go on, and the person in the best position to comment on what the evidence about CB's involvement reveals is HCW.  He says he is 100% certain that CB is involved in Madeleine's murder.  Now, you can choose to believe him or disbelieve him but it's only your opinion and doesn't really hold any validity either way.  SO, imo best to simply wait and see, give the benefit of the doubt until more information is revealed upon which to make a judgement.  I really don't see the point in continuing to keep going round and round in circles about it.  In the meantime, one person whose opinion definitely counts for no more than yours or mine is Amaral's.  He hasn't been "in the loop" since 2007 so definitely Yesterday's Man.  He has no credibility and is best ignored and forgotten IMO. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2022, 12:13:27 PM
I'm not  concerned you call me ignorant ....although it sounds you are at being called arrogant.

It is easy to say you have proof what you say and what you have are two different things.

The one big massive fact here is no one ...no one has the proof of what happened to maddie.

IMO it is all still wide open as to who was responsible ...no concrete evidence to date.

You should just get over the fact that you think you know more than anyone else...you dont.

Ive suppiled proof of everything i have said about Grime if ive stated it a a fact..ill post it again later.

The investigation has moved on. You are a sceptic because you believe the lies abut the cadaver dog.

Before making any claims you need to wait and hear what Wolters has to say. the McCanns are no longer suspects...you need to accept that


...and I do know a  lot more about the dogs than most other posters
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2022, 01:55:43 PM
Ive suppiled proof of everything i have said about Grime if ive stated it a a fact..ill post it again later.

The investigation has moved on. You are a sceptic because you believe the lies abut the cadaver dog.

Before making any claims you need to wait and hear what Wolters has to say. the McCanns are no longer suspects...you need to accept that


...and I do know a  lot more about the dogs than most other posters


The investigation has moved on. You are a sceptic because you believe the lies abut the cadaver dog.


No, not at l... Me...myself and I... don't believe the mccs version of events... just as strongly as you believe what HCW is telling you.

Talking about dogs how is your German S.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2022, 02:39:00 PM

The investigation has moved on. You are a sceptic because you believe the lies abut the cadaver dog.


No, not at l... Me...myself and I... don't believe the mccs version of events... just as strongly as you believe what HCW is telling you.

Talking about dogs how is your German S.

I think it's highly likely wolters has very significant evidence..practically a certainty..

The vet thought my dog had snapped her cruciate ligament...but it seems to have healed with rest...she's lovely
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 14, 2022, 04:36:46 PM
I think it's highly likely wolters has very significant evidence..practically a certainty..

The vet thought my dog had snapped her cruciate ligament...but it seems to have healed with rest...she's lovely

Aww painful and expensive if she needed surgery, but good she is making a good recovery.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2022, 05:10:38 PM
Aww painful and expensive if she needed surgery, but good she is making a good recovery.

Thanks for your concern
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 15, 2022, 08:22:10 AM
Don't you think its arrogant to call me ignorant ...just because my opinion differs to yours. MR.

To label post junk twaddle etc etc....just because you think your right....

I would say that was arrogant....to insult there opinion...just because of yours

There are a lot of people who do not believe the mccs version of events.

Your flying the flag for HCW an his concrete evidence...well a lot don't believe that either.

I notice you go on a lot to discredit Eddie....but what about Keela the CSI dog.

Keela hit the headlines two years ago because she was earning more than her force's Chief Constable.

It appears highly likely that Keela was the dog who was brought in by British detectives last week who located tiny traces of blood in the McCanns' apartment despite alleged attempts to wash them off.


You are posting misinformation.   People still believe the McCann's washed the curtains!!   These ridiculous accusations are to blame for many thinking the McCann's were guilty.   Please read the Forensic results.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2022, 09:41:32 AM
You are posting misinformation.   People still believe the McCann's washed the curtains!!   These ridiculous accusations are to blame for many thinking the McCann's were guilty.   Please read the Forensic results.

Apparently those who are intelligent and knowledgeable know that the McCanns are innocent because they said they are. They know that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger because that's what Operation Grange investigated. They know that a German criminal took and killed her because a German prosecutor told them so. They know that Amaral lied about them because the McCanns told them that too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 15, 2022, 10:08:53 AM
Apparently those who are intelligent and knowledgeable know that the McCanns are innocent because they said they are. They know that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger because that's what Operation Grange investigated. They know that a German criminal took and killed her because a German prosecutor told them so. They know that Amaral lied about them because the McCanns told them that too.

It doesn't take half a brain cell to work out why the McCanns are innocent.  It's called Logistics.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2022, 10:26:48 AM
Apparently those who are intelligent and knowledgeable know that the McCanns are innocent because they said they are. They know that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger because that's what Operation Grange investigated. They know that a German criminal took and killed her because a German prosecutor told them so. They know that Amaral lied about them because the McCanns told them that too.
What has your facetious reply got to do with Lace's post?  How about addressing the FACT that Kizzy was posting misinformation?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2022, 10:33:22 AM
Apparently those who are intelligent and knowledgeable know that the McCanns are innocent because they said they are. They know that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger because that's what Operation Grange investigated. They know that a German criminal took and killed her because a German prosecutor told them so. They know that Amaral lied about them because the McCanns told them that too.

another junk post from you. You really do need to read and understand...everything you have posted is absolute tripe...the fact you dont realise that speaks volumes
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2022, 11:18:14 AM
It doesn't take half a brain cell to work out why the McCanns are innocent.  It's called Logistics.

Assuming that you know exactly what had to be planned and executed and when.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 15, 2022, 11:21:38 AM
You are posting misinformation.   People still believe the McCann's washed the curtains!!   These ridiculous accusations are to blame for many thinking the McCann's were guilty.   Please read the Forensic results.

Who are you to decide what misinformation is ...its on the net for everyone to see [I didn't put it on there] an who said anything about them washing curtains...that is you.

As for the forensic results ...wasn't they inconclusive...so why should I read them

Why do you think you have the right to tell me what I believe is ridiculous and insult people intelligence that they believe every thing they see to make a conclusion of there own what happened ....you should look nearer home for that L
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2022, 11:31:56 AM
another junk post from you. You really do need to read and understand...everything you have posted is absolute tripe...the fact you dont realise that speaks volumes

So you don't believe Wolters has got his man just because he says so? You have examined the evidence and decided for yourself? Sorry, but I don't think so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 15, 2022, 11:37:14 AM
Assuming that you know exactly what had to be planned and executed and when.

You know then, do you?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2022, 11:55:22 AM
So you don't believe Wolters has got his man just because he says so? You have examined the evidence and decided for yourself? Sorry, but I don't think so.

then it shows what a fool you are..

I dont know as a certainty Wolters has got his man but lookung at all the evidence availabe I think its highly likely he has. You are just so wrong in just about everything you post about me
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2022, 12:44:19 PM
You know then, do you?

No I don't, and I don't think anyone does. The circumstances could be completely different to the narrative we've been given and upon which I assume your statement is based.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 15, 2022, 12:46:59 PM
No I don't, and I don't think anyone does. The circumstances could be completely different to the narrative we've been given and upon which I assume your statement is based.

Is it okay to Libel people against whom there is no evidence?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2022, 12:49:30 PM
then it shows what a fool you are..

I dont know as a certainty Wolters has got his man but lookung at all the evidence availabe I think its highly likely he has. You are just so wrong in just about everything you post about me

So despite quoting Wolters at every opportunity you don't actually believe what he says? You are aware, I suppose that there is no evidence available to support Wolter's claims? No evidence that she's dead or who did it imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 15, 2022, 12:52:38 PM
So despite quoting Wolters at every opportunity you don't actually believe what he says? You are aware, I suppose that there is no evidence available to support Wolter's claims? No evidence that she's dead or who did it imo.

No Evidence that Madeleine is Dead.  That's what I said.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 15, 2022, 01:11:29 PM
Apparently those who are intelligent and knowledgeable know that the McCanns are innocent because they said they are. They know that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger because that's what Operation Grange investigated. They know that a German criminal took and killed her because a German prosecutor told them so. They know that Amaral lied about them because the McCanns told them that too.
There is not a scrap of evidence let alone proof which substantiates your innuendos which makes your bitter posts somewhat inappropriate from so many points of view.

I think you rather underestimate those who know Amaral is a liar ~ that was decided a long time ago by the Portuguese courts who gave him a criminal conviction specifically for that reason, on finding him a proven liar.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 15, 2022, 01:20:42 PM
then it shows what a fool you are..

I dont know as a certainty Wolters has got his man but lookung at all the evidence availabe I think its highly likely he has. You are just so wrong in just about everything you post about me

then it shows what a fool you are..

I think it sad but informative really why g is so often put down. it strikes me she is nearer to the truth than you would like.

G-Unit is one of the most researched poster on this forum by far over the years I have admired her attention to detail and research and Im sure I'm not the only one by far.

If anyone has the knowledge of this case it is G-Unit and produces it in a respectful manner.



What ever you think of G  she is certainly no Fool
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 15, 2022, 01:25:16 PM
There is not a scrap of evidence let alone proof which substantiates your innuendos which makes your bitter posts somewhat inappropriate from so many points of view.

I think you rather underestimate those who know Amaral is a liar ~ that was decided a long time ago by the Portuguese courts who gave him a criminal conviction specifically for that reason, on finding him a proven liar.

Ah you see......I think the only bitterness in your post ...is yours.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 15, 2022, 01:28:43 PM
Who are you to decide what misinformation is ...its on the net for everyone to see [I didn't put it on there] an who said anything about them washing curtains...that is you.

As for the forensic results ...wasn't they inconclusive...so why should I read them

Why do you think you have the right to tell me what I believe is ridiculous and insult people intelligence that they believe every thing they see to make a conclusion of there own what happened ....you should look nearer home for that L

You really do require to read the conclusive forensic reports available to you in the files.  Amaral appeared not to understand them but starting with Leicestershire police every single other investigative authority since knows exactly how Amaral got it all entirely wrong.

Sandra Felgueiras has been very vocal about the lies Amaral told her and her discovery of just how heinous he and they were when she was able to read the files for herself.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2022, 01:29:30 PM
then it shows what a fool you are..

I think it sad but informative really why g is so often put down. it strikes me she is nearer to the truth than you would like.

G-Unit is one of the most researched poster on this forum by far over the years I have admired her attention to detail and research and Im sure I'm not the only one by far.

If anyone has the knowledge of this case it is G-Unit and produces it in a respectful manner.



What ever you think of G  she is certainly no Fool

Thank you Kizzy.

I think the attacks on me speak for themselves. No-one's trying to convince me that I'm a fool, they're trying to convince those who might read my posts imo. It's exactly the same sort of attack which has been desperately aimed at Amaral for years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 15, 2022, 01:32:14 PM
So you don't believe Wolters has got his man just because he says so? You have examined the evidence and decided for yourself? Sorry, but I don't think so.

No internet poster has had access to the files since Amaral's indiscretion in 2019.  I thought you knew that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on September 15, 2022, 01:39:14 PM
No I don't, and I don't think anyone does. The circumstances could be completely different to the narrative we've been given and upon which I assume your statement is based.

Despite Amaral cheerleading on this man's behalf I think it is time for sceptics to step back and take a closer look at the crimes for which he has been convicted.

There may be a risk of being associated with the company being kept and the causes being unreservedly supported.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2022, 01:39:43 PM
Thank you Kizzy.

I think the attacks on me speak for themselves. No-one's trying to convince me that I'm a fool, they're trying to convince those who might read my posts imo. It's exactly the same sort of attack which has been desperately aimed at Amaral for years.
You're clearly no fool, you know exactly what you're doing and somehow that's worse.  At least one can forgive ignorance...
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 15, 2022, 01:42:11 PM
Thank you Kizzy.

I think the attacks on me speak for themselves. No-one's trying to convince me that I'm a fool, they're trying to convince those who might read my posts imo. It's exactly the same sort of attack which has been desperately aimed at Amaral for years.

Exactly.    8@??)(
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 15, 2022, 01:45:50 PM
You're clearly no fool, you know exactly what you're doing and somehow that's worse.  At least one can forgive ignorance...

you know exactly what you're doing

It takes one to know one ....as they say - don't tar everyone with your brush
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2022, 01:55:32 PM
Thank you Kizzy.

I think the attacks on me speak for themselves. No-one's trying to convince me that I'm a fool, they're trying to convince those who might read my posts imo. It's exactly the same sort of attack which has been desperately aimed at Amaral for years.

You have refferrred to me as arrogant,,,thats you attacking me...

you have said i beleive in CBs guilt because Wolters said so.....and taht I believe in abduction because SY said so...if you really believe that you are a fool...

If you post misinformation you deserve to be called out
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Mr Gray on September 15, 2022, 02:00:00 PM
then it shows what a fool you are..

I think it sad but informative really why g is so often put down. it strikes me she is nearer to the truth than you would like.

G-Unit is one of the most researched poster on this forum by far over the years I have admired her attention to detail and research and Im sure I'm not the only one by far.

If anyone has the knowledge of this case it is G-Unit and produces it in a respectful manner.



What ever you think of G  she is certainly no Fool

I dont see gunit as any sort of authority on this case. its like saying someone with knowledge of the bible is an authority on the existence of God.

ive posted facts about the dogs and gunit has not been able to dispute anything...so she resorted to a personal attack...how is that respectful
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 15, 2022, 02:06:02 PM
Who are you to decide what misinformation is ...its on the net for everyone to see [I didn't put it on there] an who said anything about them washing curtains...that is you.

As for the forensic results ...wasn't they inconclusive...so why should I read them

Why do you think you have the right to tell me what I believe is ridiculous and insult people intelligence that they believe every thing they see to make a conclusion of there own what happened ....you should look nearer home for that L

Oh dear,  sounds as though you believe the McCann's cleaned the floor otherwise you wouldn't be questioning what is misinformation.  Why post the misinformation if you don't believe it to be true.   

I think you should calm down and read the forensics,  then you will understand things better.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on September 15, 2022, 02:08:16 PM
Apparently those who are intelligent and knowledgeable know that the McCanns are innocent because they said they are. They know that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger because that's what Operation Grange investigated. They know that a German criminal took and killed her because a German prosecutor told them so. They know that Amaral lied about them because the McCanns told them that too.

What are you rambling on about?   Do you think I haven't done my own research?   You are not the only one who came to their own conclusion.   Arrogance will get you nowhere.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on September 15, 2022, 02:15:16 PM

To many Johnny Come Latelies if you ask me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 15, 2022, 02:21:28 PM
Oh dear,  sounds as though you believe the McCann's cleaned the floor otherwise you wouldn't be questioning what is misinformation.  Why post the misinformation if you don't believe it to be true.   

I think you should calm down and read the forensics,  then you will understand things better.

I think you should get a grip ....just stick to all the misinformation that we are hearing from Walt.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on September 15, 2022, 02:26:24 PM
It doesn't take half a brain cell to work out why the McCanns are innocent.  It's called Logistics.

No available bins in Luz were there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2022, 02:29:36 PM
you know exactly what you're doing

It takes one to know one ....as they say - don't tar everyone with your brush
What brush would that be then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2022, 02:31:14 PM
I think you should get a grip ....just stick to all the misinformation that we are hearing from Walt.
Please give us a few examples of this misinformation, thanks
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on September 15, 2022, 02:33:29 PM
Please give us a few examples of this misinformation, thanks

That Maddie was abducted.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on September 15, 2022, 02:37:47 PM
What brush would that be then?

Whatever brush you choose...its your brush.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2022, 03:38:32 PM
Whatever brush you choose...its your brush.
I choose Basil - boom! boom!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 29, 2022, 02:22:57 AM
Haven't heard much from Amaral of late.  Keeping a low profile perhaps?



Suspect in Maddie's case gets no probation

FOCUS online/WochitEx-chief investigator again raises serious allegations against Maddie's parents

Thursday, 26.08.2021

More than 13 years ago, the then three-year-old Maddie McCann disappeared from a hotel complex in Portugal. Now the 43-year-old German Christian B. is suspected of having kidnapped the girl. All information in the news ticker on FOCUS Online.

The most important facts about the Maddie McCann case in brief:

Maddie McCann disappeared without a trace in Portugal in 2007 - a 43-year-old German is being investigated for murder
Suspect Christian B. has several previous convictions, currently he is in custody for drug trafficking in Kiel
Prosecutor hints at evidence of girl's death

"Abduction only simulated": Ex-chief investigator again raises serious allegations against parents - prosecutor's office clearly contradicts
Tuesday, August 24, 4:22 p.m.: Maddie McCann disappeared 14 years ago. So far, there is still no trace of the girl. Now the former chief investigator of the case, Gonçalo Amaral, has again raised strong allegations against the parents Kate and Gerry McCann to "Bild.de".

"I still have no doubt that a kidnapping was only simulated," says Amaral. As an indication of this, he cited a window "of which no one could say for sure whether it was open or closed". The investigators were told in 2007 "that the alleged kidnapper climbed in and out of there." There had been fingerprints, but only from the mother.

Amaral also admitted his own mistakes. The investigations on the ground should have been "more comprehensive, as in a murder," according to the investigator. Instead, the investigators approached the case as if something had been stolen. That was a mistake. He apparently considers the main suspect, Christian B., to be innocent. "B. has nothing to do with Maddie's disappearance," he claims.

The Braunschweig prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters clearly contradicts the execution: "We still do not want to comment on Mr. Amaral's statements, because we assume that Mr. Amaral has no knowledge of the current state of the investigation and his statements are therefore completely irrelevant to us," he said on RTL demand. There is "not the slightest hint of suspicion against the parents," according to the prosecutor.

https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/der-fall-maddie-im-news-ticker-entfuehrung-nur-simuliert-ex-chefermittler-erhebt-unerhoerte-vorwuerfe-gegen-die-eltern_id_12062430.html
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on December 29, 2022, 09:09:51 AM
If you didn't keep mentioning him, he'd likely have no profile at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on December 29, 2022, 10:11:46 AM
If you didn't keep mentioning him, he'd likely have no profile at all.

Then there'd be no big bad Portuguese villian who could be used to take the blame for the McCann's troubles.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on December 29, 2022, 10:29:59 AM
If you didn't keep mentioning him, he'd likely have no profile at all.

Its the end of the year lots of Amaral quota's to be used up.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 29, 2022, 11:59:30 AM
Then there'd be no big bad Portuguese villian who could be used to take the blame for the McCann's troubles.

Wow!!

"Big" ~ "Bad" ~ "Villain"   Got it spot on there!  This gets more and more like a penny dreadful with every post.

Maybe you should consider adding "liar" and "interfering with an active police investigation" to your list.  I think the rest of the world has already.




"Why were the photos of the motorhome edited?"
Amaral shows pictures of the suspect's van during the interview. The VW Westfalia pictured is highly individualized and provided with eye-catching drawings.
The vehicle looks completely different from the pictures published by the German authorities. "I think it's important to ask why the photo of the motorhome released by the authorities was altered," Amaral points out.
https://www.nau.ch/news/europa/maddie-mccann-portugiesische-polizei-wollte-christian-b-befragen-65729652
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Admin on December 29, 2022, 12:11:48 PM
Wow!!

"Big" ~ "Bad" ~ "Villain"   Got it spot on there!  This gets more and more like a penny dreadful with every post.

Maybe you should consider adding "liar" and "interfering with an active police investigation" to your list.  I think the rest of the world has already.




"Why were the photos of the motorhome edited?"
Amaral shows pictures of the suspect's van during the interview. The VW Westfalia pictured is highly individualized and provided with eye-catching drawings.
The vehicle looks completely different from the pictures published by the German authorities. "I think it's important to ask why the photo of the motorhome released by the authorities was altered," Amaral points out.
https://www.nau.ch/news/europa/maddie-mccann-portugiesische-polizei-wollte-christian-b-befragen-65729652

The mystery deepens?

Amaral

The vehicle looks completely different from the pictures published by the German authorities. "I think it's important to ask why the photo of the RV released by the authorities was altered," Amaral said.

"Christian B. as a scapegoat"
In the interview, Amaral expresses doubts about the guilt of the German. Christian B. is an "almost perfect suspect" who is made a scapegoat. He is in prison in Kiel (D) for a drug offense. His convictions include raping a woman, child molestation and possession of child pornography, among others.

When asked if he thought the suspect was guilty, he replied: "It would have to be proven beforehand that a kidnapping took place." Amaral remains convinced that the parents are hiding something.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 29, 2022, 12:43:32 PM

It's a good job someone found that video of Brueckner.  No Cartoons and No Dreadlocks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 29, 2022, 12:54:53 PM
The mystery deepens?

Amaral

The vehicle looks completely different from the pictures published by the German authorities. "I think it's important to ask why the photo of the RV released by the authorities was altered," Amaral said.

"Christian B. as a scapegoat"
In the interview, Amaral expresses doubts about the guilt of the German. Christian B. is an "almost perfect suspect" who is made a scapegoat. He is in prison in Kiel (D) for a drug offense. His convictions include raping a woman, child molestation and possession of child pornography, among others.

When asked if he thought the suspect was guilty, he replied: "It would have to be proven beforehand that a kidnapping took place." Amaral remains convinced that the parents are hiding something.

The fact is Amaral has just been caught out in his lies.

He is filmed in his van weeks before Madeleine vanished. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10817713/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-face-changing-op-months-went-missing.html  Therefore proving unequivocally that neither he nor his van matched the descriptions being promoted by Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 29, 2022, 01:03:15 PM
It's a good job someone found that video of Brueckner.  No Cartoons and No Dreadlocks.

It must have come as a complete shock.

Without it we would be arguing the toss about Amaral's version of events.  Which leads one to ponder what other calumnies of his have been swallowed hook line and sinker without question.

That's the thing about liars, they are not to be trusted under any circumstances
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on December 29, 2022, 01:14:01 PM
Wow!!

"Big" ~ "Bad" ~ "Villain"   Got it spot on there!  This gets more and more like a penny dreadful with every post.

Maybe you should consider adding "liar" and "interfering with an active police investigation" to your list.  I think the rest of the world has already.




"Why were the photos of the motorhome edited?"
Amaral shows pictures of the suspect's van during the interview. The VW Westfalia pictured is highly individualized and provided with eye-catching drawings.
The vehicle looks completely different from the pictures published by the German authorities. "I think it's important to ask why the photo of the motorhome released by the authorities was altered," Amaral points out.
https://www.nau.ch/news/europa/maddie-mccann-portugiesische-polizei-wollte-christian-b-befragen-65729652

Amaral has never been my hero so I tend to find it amusing when people speculate about him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 29, 2022, 01:25:45 PM
It must have come as a complete shock.

Without it we would be arguing the toss about Amaral's version of events.  Which leads one to ponder what other calumnies of his have been swallowed hook line and sinker without question.

That's the thing about liars, they are not to be trusted under any circumstances

But why did Amaral do this?  It was downright and deliberate Lies.  Did he hope that The BKA would believe this and then drop the case against Brueckner?

Why was Amaral trying to protect Brueckner?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 29, 2022, 01:26:07 PM
Amaral has never been my hero so I tend to find it amusing when people speculate about him.

Go on then.  Pick an "amusing speculation" posted by me about Amaral and DISCUSS!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 29, 2022, 01:42:50 PM
Go on then.  Pick an "amusing speculation" posted by me about Amaral and DISCUSS!

But it isn't speculation.  Amaral is a Liar and a Thief and a Philanderer.  These are proven facts.

And Amaral then tried to protect Brueckner.  This is serious stuff.  Amaral was on the ground at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. While The BKA and Scotland Yard were left to sort out the mess Amaral left behind, but not until several years later.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 29, 2022, 01:48:43 PM
But why did Amaral do this?  It was downright and deliberate Lies.  Did he hope that The BKA would believe this and then drop the case against Brueckner?

Why was Amaral trying to protect Brueckner?

I would really like to know this as well as the reasoning behind his unremitting vendetta against Madeleine and her family culminating in his most recent reiteration of allegations against Kate and Gerry.

Initially someone in the investigation had Brueckner on police radar. 

I would like to know what happened with that.

But there was a deliberate attempt made by Amaral to destroy the public appeals for specific information being made by Madeleine's investigators.  That is not only immoral - it is highly suspect.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 29, 2022, 02:14:43 PM
But it isn't speculation.  Amaral is a Liar and a Thief and a Philanderer.  These are proven facts.

And Amaral then tried to protect Brueckner.  This is serious stuff.  Amaral was on the ground at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. While The BKA and Scotland Yard were left to sort out the mess Amaral left behind, but not until several years later.

G-unit makes a post throwing unspecified allegations about.  This then becomes the fact of the matter.  A tried and tested formula employed by mccann sceptics - which becomes more transparent with overuse.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 29, 2022, 02:26:13 PM
G-unit makes a post throwing unspecified allegations about.  This then becomes the fact of the matter.  A tried and tested formula employed by mccann sceptics - which becomes more transparent with overuse.

And we are supposed to lose track of the plot.  This doesn't happen of course.  But then I don't mind repeating The Facts if I have to.

Meanwhile, what will Amaral try next?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 29, 2022, 02:42:00 PM
And we are supposed to lose track of the plot.  This doesn't happen of course.  But then I don't mind repeating The Facts if I have to.

Meanwhile, what will Amaral try next?

I thought he had shot his bolt with the indiscrete Saunokonko podcast.  That was a spoiler if ever I saw one.  And then he up and makes a liar of himself while slagging off the McCanns as a bonus.

I truly haven't a clue what this man is capable of. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: faithlilly on December 29, 2022, 10:30:42 PM
But it isn't speculation.  Amaral is a Liar and a Thief and a Philanderer.  These are proven facts.



As are Busching, Seyferth et al. Why should their claims be trusted anymore than Amaral’s?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on December 29, 2022, 11:50:39 PM
As are Busching, Seyferth et al. Why should their claims be trusted anymore than Amaral’s?
I’ve explained this to you before, and recently.  You didn’t accept the validity of my explanation then as it seems you couldn’t quite grasp it and therefore it’s unlikely you ever will understand. 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on December 30, 2022, 12:47:34 AM
But it isn't speculation.  Amaral is a Liar and a Thief and a Philanderer.  These are proven facts.

And Amaral then tried to protect Brueckner.  This is serious stuff.  Amaral was on the ground at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. While The BKA and Scotland Yard were left to sort out the mess Amaral left behind, but not until several years later.

How has 'the mess' been sorted out then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 30, 2022, 05:31:27 AM
How has 'the mess' been sorted out then?

Did I say that The BKA and Scotland Yard had actually sorted the mess yet?

Brueckner is currently due in court on five more charges of sexual abuse committed in Portugal over several years, none of which were dealt with in Portugal.  Five Charges.  Collecting The Evidence alone must have been a job and a half  This at least is a start.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on December 30, 2022, 10:55:34 AM
Did I say that The BKA and Scotland Yard had actually sorted the mess yet?

Brueckner is currently due in court on five more charges of sexual abuse committed in Portugal over several years, none of which were dealt with in Portugal.  Five Charges.  Collecting The Evidence alone must have been a job and a half  This at least is a start.

It certainly isn't sorted out, is it? We're no nearer to knowing what happened on 3rd May 2007 than we ever were.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 30, 2022, 11:14:04 AM
It certainly isn't sorted out, is it? We're no nearer to knowing what happened on 3rd May 2007 than we ever were.

It has gone full circle.

In 2007 Amaral was the man and Brueckner was a person of interest to someone in the Policia Judiciaria.

In 2022 Amaral pretends still to be the man - and Brueckner is a murder suspect.

All other known names have dropped out of the equation with the exception of these two who are still in the frame.

We weren't introduced to Brueckner until 2019.

But Amaral sure knew about him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 30, 2022, 11:27:46 AM
It has gone full circle.

In 2007 Amaral was the man and Brueckner was a person of interest to someone in the Policia Judiciaria.

In 2022 Amaral pretends still to be the man - and Brueckner is a murder suspect.

All other known names have dropped out of the equation with the exception of these two who are still in the frame.

We weren't introduced to Brueckner until 2019.

But Amaral sure knew about him.

Yep, & he knew he wasn't guilty.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 30, 2022, 11:29:09 AM
It certainly isn't sorted out, is it? We're no nearer to knowing what happened on 3rd May 2007 than we ever were.

No no.
Wolters has solved the case, so I'm reliably informed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 30, 2022, 12:00:37 PM
It certainly isn't sorted out, is it? We're no nearer to knowing what happened on 3rd May 2007 than we ever were.

What makes you think that it is actually any of our business.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on December 30, 2022, 02:32:05 PM
The McCanns made it our business when they appealed to the public to help them.

If they'd said nothing, then no one would be in the least interested in the outcome
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 30, 2022, 02:51:19 PM
The McCanns made it our business when they appealed to the public to help them.

If they'd said nothing, then no one would be in the least interested in the outcome

Really?  No one would be interested in what happened to Madeleine?  How very sad.  Which is why The McCanns asked for help.  Hardly the act of guilty parents.

Your logic is abysmal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on December 30, 2022, 02:51:47 PM
The McCanns made it our business when they appealed to the public to help them.

If they'd said nothing, then no one would be in the least interested in the outcome
Absolute rot.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 30, 2022, 03:26:19 PM
Absolute rot.

Of course it is Absolute Rot.

The first thing that The Police do is to ask for help from The Public.  But Amaral wasn't having this.  He had already made up his mind.  Incidentally, on the morning after while he still had a hangover and was made an Aeguido himself in the case of another missing child.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 30, 2022, 04:04:55 PM
The McCanns made it our business when they appealed to the public to help them.

If they'd said nothing, then no one would be in the least interested in the outcome

Your first point is true. As is evident by the decision of the SC & ECHR.
The McCanns made themselves public figures. It's their own fault if they get hate mail mixed in with their Christmas cards really.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 30, 2022, 04:21:11 PM
Really?  No one would be interested in what happened to Madeleine?  How very sad.  Which is why The McCanns asked for help.  Hardly the act of guilty parents.

Your logic is abysmal.

Chris Watts spoke to media & appealed for information about his missing wife & two children......whom he had in fact strangled, smothered & hidden in an oil tank.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 30, 2022, 04:40:54 PM

Meanwhile, what has Amaral been up to.  Other than Lying, Thieving and Phillandering.  Although not a problem in Portugal.  Free Speach and all that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 30, 2022, 04:53:43 PM
The McCanns made it our business when they appealed to the public to help them.

If they'd said nothing, then no one would be in the least interested in the outcome

How much do you actually know about this case which you insist on pontificating sheer dribble about?

Amaral started the ball rolling on publicity in one of his few positive actions in Madeleine's case.

Even he wasn't stupid enough to think publicity was inappropriate.


Date: 04-05-2007
Subject: Request for Divulgation by means of the Press

As it is of clear interest to the investigation of the case in reference, I have the honour to ask you to authorise the divulgation of the disappearance of the young girl Madeleine McCann by means of the organs of the press, with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts.

I enclose a model for divulgation.

With best compliments

The Coordinator of the Investigation.

G. Amaral
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on December 30, 2022, 05:05:31 PM
What bollox you do write in you attempt to involve Amaral.

Who was it gave lots of press interviews at the start?
Who was it set  up a website to encourage people to search for Madeleine?
Who engineered a visit to the Pope and appearances on TV shows in America?

McCann did and in doing so involved the public
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 30, 2022, 05:19:58 PM
What bollox you do write in you attempt to involve Amaral.

Who was it gave lots of press interviews at the start?
Who was it set  up a website to encourage people to search for Madeleine?
Who engineered a visit to the Pope and appearances on TV shows in America?

McCann did and in doing so involved the public

Madeleine's Parents?  Golly Gosh.

Can you give me a reason for why they should not have done?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on December 30, 2022, 05:22:09 PM
What bollox you do write in you attempt to involve Amaral.

Who was it gave lots of press interviews at the start?
Who was it set  up a website to encourage people to search for Madeleine?
Who engineered a visit to the Pope and appearances on TV shows in America?

McCann did and in doing so involved the public

I know this may come as a horrid shock to your system since you fail to appreciate that Amaral is up to his neck in all of this.  He is an author you know and a pundit with as his specialist subject - Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on December 30, 2022, 05:26:37 PM
I know this may come as a horrid shock to your system since you fail to appreciate that Amaral is up to his neck in all of this.  He is an author you know and a pundit with as his specialist subject - Madeleine McCann.

When he isn't lying about Brueckner and those DreadLocks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 30, 2022, 06:05:00 PM
I know this may come as a horrid shock to your system since you fail to appreciate that Amaral is up to his neck in all of this.  He is an author you know and a pundit with as his specialist subject - Madeleine McCann.

Yes, he claims there wasn't an abduction, & unsurprisingly, the combined efforts of the three expert investigative forces are unable to prove the contrary.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 30, 2022, 06:12:11 PM
What bollox you do write in you attempt to involve Amaral.

Who was it gave lots of press interviews at the start?
Who was it set  up a website to encourage people to search for Madeleine?
Who engineered a visit to the Pope and appearances on TV shows in America?

McCann did and in doing so involved the public

Ahhh, but they were only trying to encourage the search for their abducted daughter, & most definitely weren't just trying to appear innocent.

Now, about this abductor. How's the case against him going?  Wolters having much luck is he?

What's that? No, you say?

Ahh well then maybe Amaral was right & there just wasn't one.

That's possible isn't it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 12:09:20 AM
Incredibly Amaral just cannot let go of his peasant like belief that the analgesic Calpol was used to poison Madeleine.
It is paracetamol - which Amaral now claims is an antihistamine.  The guy is incorrigible.

Snip
In this book (the fourth on the subject!) Gonçalo Amaral explores more deeply the absence of information about the child who disappeared. He says that Portuguese research never had access, for example, to his medical history.

In an investigation into disappearance, child abduction, child abuse, the first thing you need to know is the victim. And this victim, we were never allowed to know her, particularly with such a medical history.

These children were medicated, or given to sleep a medically named Calpol, which is an antihistamine, that put them to sleep. The investigation has to know what is the relationship between taking this medicine and the possible death of the child. And for that we need the clinical history. We need to know if she had a problem.
https://rr.sapo.pt/noticia/pais/2021/10/15/goncalo-amaral-o-medo-da-justica-portuguesa-e-as-mentiras-da-justica-alema-no-caso-maddie/256864/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2023, 10:11:36 AM
Although it's claimed that Calpol is just paracetamol, parents have believed for years that it encourages children to sleep and have used it with that result in mind. This one for instance;

“I always used to give my youngest son Calpol before a long flight; he was always over-excitable and used to get overtired so quickly, so I didn’t want to risk it. It used to work, to be fair - he’d often sleep soundly, and my husband and I never gave him more than the recommended dose.
https://www.columbusdirect.com/content/should-you-medicate-your-child-before-a-flight-parents-and-medical-professionals-give-their-opinion/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 10:42:16 AM
Although it's claimed that Calpol is just paracetamol, parents have believed for years that it encourages children to sleep and have used it with that result in mind. This one for instance;

“I always used to give my youngest son Calpol before a long flight; he was always over-excitable and used to get overtired so quickly, so I didn’t want to risk it. It used to work, to be fair - he’d often sleep soundly, and my husband and I never gave him more than the recommended dose.
https://www.columbusdirect.com/content/should-you-medicate-your-child-before-a-flight-parents-and-medical-professionals-give-their-opinion/

Calpol is an analgesic.  It is not a sedative.

I immediately recognised the quote.
Seems the best nonsense you can come up with dates back to circa 2015 before you could reference another idiot who thinks it is a sedative.
It is way past its sell by date - much as is Amaral.  The recommendation is "There are not any medications which should be used for the purpose of sedating children for travel. Instead, you should focus on how to help with changing time zones and keeping your children well-fed, hydrated and distracted with plenty of toys!"  Had you read on into your link, you would have come across that piece of professional advice.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 02, 2023, 11:03:15 AM
Although it's claimed that Calpol is just paracetamol, parents have believed for years that it encourages children to sleep and have used it with that result in mind. This one for instance;

“I always used to give my youngest son Calpol before a long flight; he was always over-excitable and used to get overtired so quickly, so I didn’t want to risk it. It used to work, to be fair - he’d often sleep soundly, and my husband and I never gave him more than the recommended dose.
https://www.columbusdirect.com/content/should-you-medicate-your-child-before-a-flight-parents-and-medical-professionals-give-their-opinion/
is this where Amaral got his info from?  We can add diligent researcher to his list of talents then.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 02, 2023, 11:05:31 AM
Incredibly Amaral just cannot let go of his peasant like belief that the analgesic Calpol was used to poison Madeleine.
It is paracetamol - which Amaral now claims is an antihistamine.  The guy is incorrigible.

Snip
In this book (the fourth on the subject!) Gonçalo Amaral explores more deeply the absence of information about the child who disappeared. He says that Portuguese research never had access, for example, to his medical history.

In an investigation into disappearance, child abduction, child abuse, the first thing you need to know is the victim. And this victim, we were never allowed to know her, particularly with such a medical history.

These children were medicated, or given to sleep a medically named Calpol, which is an antihistamine, that put them to sleep. The investigation has to know what is the relationship between taking this medicine and the possible death of the child. And for that we need the clinical history. We need to know if she had a problem.
https://rr.sapo.pt/noticia/pais/2021/10/15/goncalo-amaral-o-medo-da-justica-portuguesa-e-as-mentiras-da-justica-alema-no-caso-maddie/256864/
I wonder how many near instant infant deaths as a result of Calpol ODs his investigation uncovered.  My betting is he never bothered to investigate it because if he had I think he might have found the answer was very close to zero.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 11:31:48 AM
is this where Amaral got his info from?  We can add diligent researcher to his list of talents then.  @)(++(*

Do you remember the flurry around the hypodermic syringe allegedly found in the McCann apartment.  Of course that would have been rushed off to the labs to see what it had contained and illustrations would have been in police files had such a thing existed.

Didn't happen though because the syringe was yet another fabrication of a fevered mind just as Calpol is.

What I can't quite take in is that sceptics are still pushing this nonsense just cos Amaral says so.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Myster on January 02, 2023, 11:42:19 AM
is this where Amaral got his info from?  We can add diligent researcher to his list of talents then.  @)(++(*
From here maybe?...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/04/why-parents-are-addicted-to-calpol (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/04/why-parents-are-addicted-to-calpol)

"In 2007 Johnson & Johnson introduced a new product: Calpol Night, for children aged two years and up, with added antihistamine, to explicitly aid sleep. But in 2009 the MHRA ruled that 36 different medicines, including Calpol Night, should no longer be given to children under six: research had shown them to be of limited use in younger children, and linked them to side effects such as disturbed sleep and hallucinations. Even though Johnson & Johnson could have continued to market it for older children, Calpol Night was quietly withdrawn in 2010".........

....... "The fame of Calpol is so great that it was even dragged into the investigation of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance in 2007. The Portuguese police were under pressure to come up with new leads, and their attention briefly turned to whether Madeleine’s parents, who were doctors, had accidentally killed her while trying to sedate her. Leaks from the investigation appeared in a Portuguese newspaper, claiming an oral dosing syringe had been found in their holiday apartment. The McCanns readily admitted that they occasionally gave their children Calpol, but strongly denied administering anything stronger. There was no basis whatsoever for the theory, which has been completely discredited. But still the Calpol detail was seized on by conspiracy theorists and tabloids alike: the combination of the nation’s most famous missing child and our best-loved children’s medicine was too sensational to resist, even though the most basic research would show that Calpol contains no sedative ingredients at all."
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 12:23:18 PM
From here maybe?...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/04/why-parents-are-addicted-to-calpol (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/04/why-parents-are-addicted-to-calpol)

"In 2007 Johnson & Johnson introduced a new product: Calpol Night, for children aged two years and up, with added antihistamine, to explicitly aid sleep. But in 2009 the MHRA ruled that 36 different medicines, including Calpol Night, should no longer be given to children under six: research had shown them to be of limited use in younger children, and linked them to side effects such as disturbed sleep and hallucinations. Even though Johnson & Johnson could have continued to market it for older children, Calpol Night was quietly withdrawn in 2010".........

....... "The fame of Calpol is so great that it was even dragged into the investigation of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance in 2007. The Portuguese police were under pressure to come up with new leads, and their attention briefly turned to whether Madeleine’s parents, who were doctors, had accidentally killed her while trying to sedate her. Leaks from the investigation appeared in a Portuguese newspaper, claiming an oral dosing syringe had been found in their holiday apartment. The McCanns readily admitted that they occasionally gave their children Calpol, but strongly denied administering anything stronger. There was no basis whatsoever for the theory, which has been completely discredited. But still the Calpol detail was seized on by conspiracy theorists and tabloids alike: the combination of the nation’s most famous missing child and our best-loved children’s medicine was too sensational to resist, even though the most basic research would show that Calpol contains no sedative ingredients at all."

My bad!  It wasn't a hypodermic I remember it was an oral dosing syringe!  But I still don't recall seeing this suspicious item appearing amongst photos of exhibits ~ making one wonder if it too is a fabrication?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2023, 12:47:41 PM
Calpol is an analgesic.  It is not a sedative.

I immediately recognised the quote.
Seems the best nonsense you can come up with dates back to circa 2015 before you could reference another idiot who thinks it is a sedative.
It is way past its sell by date - much as is Amaral.  The recommendation is "There are not any medications which should be used for the purpose of sedating children for travel. Instead, you should focus on how to help with changing time zones and keeping your children well-fed, hydrated and distracted with plenty of toys!"  Had you read on into your link, you would have come across that piece of professional advice.

The point I was making was that parents who actually used Calpol found that it encouraged their children to sleep and relied on it to have that effect. Benadryl, an anti-hystamine, was also used
https://www.verywellfamily.com/benadryl-when-flying-with-kids-2634681

So whatever the medical profession says, parents believed that certain medicines could be used to sedate their kids and used them with that aim.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 02, 2023, 12:51:07 PM
My bad!  It wasn't a hypodermic I remember it was an oral dosing syringe!  But I still don't recall seeing this suspicious item appearing amongst photos of exhibits ~ making one wonder if it too is a fabrication?

When overdosing was first suggested, Amaral obviously latched onto the fact that Kate was a qualified anaesthetist so in theory had access to many controlled drugs.  I hasten to add that no such drugs were ever found in the apartment but then that's not really surprising.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 02, 2023, 12:53:13 PM
The point I was making was that parents who actually used Calpol found that it encouraged their children to sleep and relied on it to have that effect. Benadryl, an anti-hystamine, was also used
https://www.verywellfamily.com/benadryl-when-flying-with-kids-2634681

So whatever the medical profession says, parents believed that certain medicines could be used to sedate their kids and used them with that aim.

I know we used Calpol regularly when the need arose as it had a calming effect on irritable young children. It always seemed to do the trick so it was the go-to favourite for decades
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 01:04:09 PM
The point I was making was that parents who actually used Calpol found that it encouraged their children to sleep and relied on it to have that effect. Benadryl, an anti-hystamine, was also used
https://www.verywellfamily.com/benadryl-when-flying-with-kids-2634681

So whatever the medical profession says, parents believed that certain medicines could be used to sedate their kids and used them with that aim.

The point is that Calpol is not a sedative - it is an analgesic.  Paracetamol.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 01:12:45 PM
When overdosing was first suggested, Amaral obviously latched onto the fact that Kate was a qualified anaesthetist so in theory had access to many controlled drugs.  I hasten to add that no such drugs were ever found in the apartment but then that's not really surprising.

They clutched at straws.  Even Mr Healey's prescription medication was intrusively inspected in Levy's video despite the fact neither it nor Mr Healey had been present in Luz when Madeleine was on holiday there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2023, 02:11:07 PM
I know we used Calpol regularly when the need arose as it had a calming effect on irritable young children. It always seemed to do the trick so it was the go-to favourite for decades

Regardless of what it contained it gave parents the effect they wanted, whether soothing a child's pain or sending it to sleep on a flight. If something works, it's used.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 02, 2023, 02:19:24 PM
Regardless of what it contained it gave parents the effect they wanted, whether soothing a child's pain or sending it to sleep on a flight. If something works, it's used.
And what’s the problem with that?  Is it enough to hang a half-baked theory of parental involvement on?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2023, 02:59:56 PM
And what’s the problem with that?  Is it enough to hang a half-baked theory of parental involvement on?

No, but let's not forget that Kate McCann suggested that all three of her children had been sedated. Thereby explaining why Madeleine made no sound and why the twins slept through everything that night.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 02, 2023, 03:08:26 PM
No, but let's not forget that Kate McCann suggested that all three of her children had been sedated. Thereby explaining why Madeleine made no sound and why the twins slept through everything that night.

The stain on Maddie's pyjama top caused Kate some concern.
Maybe it was Calpol or some Night Nurse.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 03:08:43 PM
Regardless of what it contained it gave parents the effect they wanted, whether soothing a child's pain or sending it to sleep on a flight. If something works, it's used.

Analgesics such as Calpol are used to "sooth a child's pain".  That is their purpose.  And having pain eased will definitely allow a child some comfort to allow sleep.

But Calpol is not a sedative for the control of unruly children and your premise is totally misguided if you think it is.

Time to give an explanation of why you insist on believing and promoting this misinformation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 02, 2023, 03:10:56 PM
No, but let's not forget that Kate McCann suggested that all three of her children had been sedated. Thereby explaining why Madeleine made no sound and why the twins slept through everything that night.
And of course that’s precisely what a mother would say in public if she had in fact sedated her children causing one of them to die and then covered up her death.  *%87
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 03:12:12 PM
No, but let's not forget that Kate McCann suggested that all three of her children had been sedated. Thereby explaining why Madeleine made no sound and why the twins slept through everything that night.

Kate had scientific tests run on herself and the children.

Very probably as a result of the rubbish being put around by Portuguese investigators.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 02, 2023, 03:14:29 PM
And of course that’s precisely what a mother would say in public if she had in fact sedated her children causing one of them to die and then covered up her death.  *%87

Good, so we can rule out death by sedation.

How are we getting on with ruling out strangulation?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 03:32:24 PM
Good, so we can rule out death by sedation.

How are we getting on with ruling out strangulation?

Do you have a cite for that?

Or are you just going to enhance your enjoyment of every known cause of death there is in your rush to be "shocking".
That horse bolted long since.  But like Amaral - why let evidence get in the way of a myth if you can spam it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 02, 2023, 03:34:07 PM
Do you have a cite for that?

Or are you just going to enhance your enjoyment of every known cause of death there is in your rush to be "shocking".
That horse bolted long since.  But like Amaral - why let evidence get in the way of a myth if you can spam it.

A cite for what??
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 02, 2023, 03:40:32 PM
Do you have a cite for that?

Or are you just going to enhance your enjoyment of every known cause of death there is in your rush to be "shocking".
That horse bolted long since.  But like Amaral - why let evidence get in the way of a myth if you can spam it.
I would rule out strangulation in the apartment that evening based on the fact that I don’t think it would have been possible to have murdered your child silently in such a manner in a small apartment with the child’s mother and two siblings in attendance.  Such an action would surely have caused some distress to those not doing thr murdering or being murdered so unless both parents had planned this murder and were both fully on board with it I think that bat-eared Mrs Fenn might possibly have heard some argument, panic, shouting, crying and screaming before, during or after such a hideous event. 

And then we have the small matter of motive to consider.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 02, 2023, 03:44:39 PM
No, but let's not forget that Kate McCann suggested that all three of her children had been sedated. Thereby explaining why Madeleine made no sound and why the twins slept through everything that night.

The sleeping twins despite the ruckus in the apartment for an hour after 10pm has always bothered me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 03:49:37 PM
The sleeping twins despite the ruckus in the apartment for an hour after 10pm has always bothered me.

The children continued to sleep soundly even after they were carried to another apartment.

It is a wonder the Portuguese didn't call in a doctor for a routine check on them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 02, 2023, 04:02:18 PM
I would rule out strangulation in the apartment that evening based on the fact that I don’t think it would have been possible to have murdered your child silently in such a manner in a small apartment with the child’s mother and two siblings in attendance.  Such an action would surely have caused some distress to those not doing thr murdering or being murdered so unless both parents had planned this murder and were both fully on board with it I think that bat-eared Mrs Fenn might possibly have heard some argument, panic, shouting, crying and screaming before, during or after such a hideous event. 

And then we have the small matter of motive to consider.

But there really is no way to rule out strangulation.

Strangling a small child wouldn't be difficult, or make any noise, or leave any forensic trace in the apartment.

No, I'm sorry. I don't see how we can rule out the possibility that Brueckner strangled Maddie in the apartment.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2023, 08:24:49 PM
The children continued to sleep soundly even after they were carried to another apartment.

It is a wonder the Portuguese didn't call in a doctor for a routine check on them.

Were the PJ informed of this unusual occurance?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 02, 2023, 08:31:47 PM
Were the PJ informed of this unusual occurance?

I believe that it was much later that night that any significance was attached to the twins ability to sleep right through the chaos.

I have no idea when the police were first informed of it though or whether Jane Tanner's sighting of a man carrying a child in his arms was significant to this?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2023, 09:18:14 PM
I believe that it was much later that night that any significance was attached to the twins ability to sleep right through the chaos.

I have no idea when the police were first informed of it though or whether Jane Tanner's sighting of a man carrying a child in his arms was significant to this?

The only people who mentioned noticing it were Fiona Payne and her mother in their rogatory interviews.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 02, 2023, 10:22:15 PM
Were the PJ informed of this unusual occurance?

You mean the PJ aren't trained observers??
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 02, 2023, 11:43:02 PM
You mean the PJ aren't trained observers??

The first thing the PJ did on arrival was clear out the McCann's mates. The second thing was to have a new apartment allocated to the McCanns and the parents took the twins there, according to Silvia Batista, who followed behind with toys and a blanket from the cots. Any observation of the twins by the PJ was minimal.They saw them in the bedroom for a few moments.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 03, 2023, 12:05:05 AM
The first thing the PJ did on arrival was clear out the McCann's mates. The second thing was to have a new apartment allocated to the McCanns and the parents took the twins there, according to Silvia Batista, who followed behind with toys and a blanket from the cots. Any observation of the twins by the PJ was minimal.They saw them in the bedroom for a few moments.

After which The PJ got on with mucking up the crime scene.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on January 03, 2023, 01:06:27 AM
The first thing the PJ did on arrival was clear out the McCann's mates. The second thing was to have a new apartment allocated to the McCanns and the parents took the twins there, according to Silvia Batista, who followed behind with toys and a blanket from the cots. Any observation of the twins by the PJ was minimal.They saw them in the bedroom for a few moments.

I thought that they spent the rest of the night as the guests of Fiona and David Payne ?   Not that there was much night left cos they left the apartment at dawn to carry on with their search.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 03, 2023, 09:00:04 AM
I thought that they spent the rest of the night as the guests of Fiona and David Payne ?   Not that there was much night left cos they left the apartment at dawn to carry on with their search.

The McCanns went to the new apartment and I remember seeing Kate and Mrs Payne seated on the sofa, each holding one of the twins. I left the new apartment at 04.30 in the morning after instructions from John Hill.
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

According to Fiona's mother the Paynes carried the twins into the Payne apartment around 4.30am. so they were moved twice.

”Yeah, yeah. They were being carried, I think Fiona and Dave carried them up.”...it must have been about half past four, five o’ clock in the morning.”
https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 06, 2023, 12:24:36 PM


The only person that put their career on the line is GA....for what he did and still does believe happened to Maddie.

No one else it seems was willing to do that.

IMO, careers to some were more important than the truth.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2023, 01:00:23 PM

The only person that put their career on the line is GA....for what he did and still does believe happened to Maddie.

No one else it seems was willing to do that.

IMO, careers to some were more important than the truth.

Goncalo Amaral lied to journalists in his propaganda war against innocent people.  He also lied to the Portuguese court - which resulted in him being convicted of a criminal offence.

I think the evidence is that Amaral is a stranger to the truth.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 06, 2023, 01:12:18 PM
Goncalo Amaral lied to journalists in his propaganda war against innocent people.  He also lied to the Portuguese court - which resulted in him being convicted of a criminal offence.

I think the evidence is that Amaral is a stranger to the truth.


 stranger to the truth.



That says a lot for the mccs then if that's the case. .....when he was the one who won all the battles in court.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2023, 01:27:21 PM


 stranger to the truth.



That says a lot for the mccs then if that's the case. .....when he was the one who won all the battles in court.

He was entitled to write his book as the courts confirmed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2023, 01:53:58 PM
He was entitled to write his book as the courts confirmed.

He was entitled to write four books.  Doesn't make it an honourable thing to do though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2023, 02:07:15 PM
He was entitled to write four books.  Doesn't make it an honourable thing to do though.

He wrote it to defend his honour and he described and explained the investigation up to 10th September 2007. What he didn't do was make personal comments about others, such as comparing policemen to 'Tweedledum & Tweedledee, and priests as being similar to a Kenny Everett character. I don't think that was necessary to the story or particularly honourable.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2023, 03:24:52 PM
He wrote it to defend his honour and he described and explained the investigation up to 10th September 2007. What he didn't do was make personal comments about others, such as comparing policemen to 'Tweedledum & Tweedledee, and priests as being similar to a Kenny Everett character. I don't think that was necessary to the story or particularly honourable.

If you imagine that Amaral's jibe that Madeleine's parents were responsible for simulating her abduction is honourable  - I think both he and thee have an extraordinarily bizarre concept of what constitutes honour.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on January 06, 2023, 04:59:05 PM


 stranger to the truth.



That says a lot for the mccs then if that's the case. .....when he was the one who won all the battles in court.

What has the battles in court have to do with the truth?   The court decided Amaral was allowed to say what he thought happened,  they didn't say they were true.

I'll tell you what is true though,  three countries have united to investigate CB,  seems Amaral's 'truth' has been thrown out of the window.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on January 06, 2023, 05:10:16 PM
What has the battles in court have to do with the truth?   The court decided Amaral was allowed to say what he thought happened,  they didn't say they were true.

I'll tell you what is true though,  three countries have united to investigate CB, seems Amaral's 'truth' has been thrown out of the window.

Unite suggests that they are working together.
I don't think that is the case.

Perhaps more correct to say they are each working towards a common goal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 06, 2023, 05:38:19 PM
What has the battles in court have to do with the truth?   The court decided Amaral was allowed to say what he thought happened,  they didn't say they were true.

I'll tell you what is true though,  three countries have united to investigate CB,  seems Amaral's 'truth' has been thrown out of the window.

...and it's going incredibly well for them, isn't it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 06, 2023, 06:23:52 PM
What has the battles in court have to do with the truth?   The court decided Amaral was allowed to say what he thought happened,  they didn't say they were true.

I'll tell you what is true though,  three countries have united to investigate CB,  seems Amaral's 'truth' has been thrown out of the window.

didn't say they were true

They didny say it wasn't either....if they had it seems the mccs would have won.. not lost.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on January 06, 2023, 06:28:32 PM
didn't say they were true

They didny say it wasn't either....if they had it seems the mccs would have won.. not lost.

Don't be silly.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on January 06, 2023, 06:29:33 PM
...and it's going incredibly well for them, isn't it.

Yes.   Why do you see it differently.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 06, 2023, 06:46:02 PM
Yes.   Why do you see it differently.

I'm sorry? When is Brueckner being charged then?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 06, 2023, 07:10:06 PM
Don't be silly.

Why is it silly?

The mccs tried to get the book banned.....if it was full of lies ..why didn't they succeed.

They tried enough.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2023, 07:12:42 PM
If you imagine that Amaral's jibe that Madeleine's parents were responsible for simulating her abduction is honourable  - I think both he and thee have an extraordinarily bizarre concept of what constitutes honour.

Jibe or honest opinion?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2023, 09:11:34 PM
Jibe or honest opinion?

One of Amaral's motivations was money.

His fortune was made denigrating the parents of the little girl he let down so badly when he botched the investigation into her case then went on to coin it in from every Portuguese media outlet available to him.

Even in his defence of rapist and child molester Brueckner - Amaral could not resist making jibes.  You may think Amaral has "honest" opinion.  I think that is charitable in the extreme for a career based on proven lies as the pundit of choice for all Portuguese media outlets capitalising on the case of the little girl Amaral never really looked for before writing her off.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2023, 10:13:44 PM
One of Amaral's motivations was money.

His fortune was made denigrating the parents of the little girl he let down so badly when he botched the investigation into her case then went on to coin it in from every Portuguese media outlet available to him.

Even in his defence of rapist and child molester Brueckner - Amaral could not resist making jibes.  You may think Amaral has "honest" opinion.  I think that is charitable in the extreme for a career based on proven lies as the pundit of choice for all Portuguese media outlets capitalising on the case of the little girl Amaral never really looked for before writing her off.

I don't think you can know what motivated Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2023, 10:32:53 PM
I don't think you can know what motivated Amaral.

Actually I really do not care what Amaral's motivations for it all were or are.  Water long gone under the bridge!  But I certainly do have an opinion on exactly how his ambitions all panned out - starting with the abandonment of Madeleine McCann while he played the dilettante of following the wrong tack entirely in his eagerness, not to find what had happened to the child, but to pin conviction on the child's mother.

Why??  Because he thought another "successful" conviction of another mother would get get him out of the deep doo·dah of the pending charges he faced in a Portuguese court.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 06, 2023, 10:36:40 PM
Actually I really do not care what Amaral's motivations for it all were or are.  Water long gone under the bridge!  But I certainly do have an opinion on exactly how his ambitions all panned out - starting with the abandonment of Madeleine McCann while he played the dilettante of following the wrong tack entirely in his eagerness, not to find what had happened to the child, but to pin conviction on the child's mother.

Why??  Because he thought another "successful" conviction of another mother would get get him out of the deep doo·dah of the pending charges he faced in a Portuguese court.

Ah well. He who laughs last and all that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2023, 10:46:49 PM
Ah well. He who laughs last and all that.

Quite!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on January 07, 2023, 08:57:30 AM
I'm sorry? When is Brueckner being charged then?

This year apparently.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on January 07, 2023, 08:57:59 AM
Why is it silly?

The mccs tried to get the book banned.....if it was full of lies ..why didn't they succeed.

They tried enough.

They did get the book banned.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 07, 2023, 09:09:44 AM
Actually I really do not care what Amaral's motivations for it all were or are.  Water long gone under the bridge!  But I certainly do have an opinion on exactly how his ambitions all panned out - starting with the abandonment of Madeleine McCann while he played the dilettante of following the wrong tack entirely in his eagerness, not to find what had happened to the child, but to pin conviction on the child's mother.

Why??  Because he thought another "successful" conviction of another mother would get get him out of the deep doo·dah of the pending charges he faced in a Portuguese court.

he thought another "successful" conviction of another mother would get get him out of the deep doo·dah of the pending charges he faced in a Portuguese court.

You seem unable to resist speculating about Amaral's motivations despite your stated lack of interest!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on January 07, 2023, 09:17:34 AM
They did get the book banned.

Briefly
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 07, 2023, 09:37:16 AM
he thought another "successful" conviction of another mother would get get him out of the deep doo·dah of the pending charges he faced in a Portuguese court.

You seem unable to resist speculating about Amaral's motivations despite your stated lack of interest!

It is pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 07, 2023, 10:47:27 AM
One of Amaral's motivations was money.

His fortune was made denigrating the parents of the little girl he let down so badly when he botched the investigation into her case then went on to coin it in from every Portuguese media outlet available to him.

Even in his defence of rapist and child molester Brueckner - Amaral could not resist making jibes.  You may think Amaral has "honest" opinion.  I think that is charitable in the extreme for a career based on proven lies as the pundit of choice for all Portuguese media outlets capitalising on the case of the little girl Amaral never really looked for before writing her off.

One of Amaral's motivations was money.

His fortune was made denigrating the parents of the little girl he let down so badly when he botched the investigation into her case then went on to coin it in from every Portuguese media outlet available to him.



Oh my o my

All I can say is it's a good job your on the mccs side...otherwise your post would have a field day with them.

I mean the nastyness ...when you dont even know if he is wrong in him thinking the mccs are involved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 07, 2023, 10:52:46 AM
One of Amaral's motivations was money.

His fortune was made denigrating the parents of the little girl he let down so badly when he botched the investigation into her case then went on to coin it in from every Portuguese media outlet available to him.



Oh my o my

All I can say is it's a good job your on the mccs side...otherwise your post would have a field day with them.

I mean the nastyness ...when you dont even know if he is wrong in him thinking the mccs are involved.

It is pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 07, 2023, 11:01:41 AM
They did get the book banned.

They tried very hard to get an injunction to ban the book before the main case was heard. Eventually their request was denied on 29th October 2010 by the Lisbon Appeal Court. They said 'The injunction is deemed not valid because it was not proved.'
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/court_docs.htm#appeal

The judge of the first instance choose to ignore this and banned the book again, but her action was not surprisingly rejected again on appeal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 07, 2023, 11:04:27 AM
It is pretty obvious.

What that GA is wrong.....fair enough if that's your opinion.

It isn't mine though...I think he is and always has been more near the mark

The reason IMO he was got rid of.... he was too close to the truth.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 11:15:06 AM
he thought another "successful" conviction of another mother would get get him out of the deep doo·dah of the pending charges he faced in a Portuguese court.

You seem unable to resist speculating about Amaral's motivations despite your stated lack of interest!

Do give up on this absolute nonsense you persist on posting - you who allegedly really do not care a jot about Amaral - according to you, despite your posts indicating another story.

Goncalo Amaral is the star of this thread.

You have made it plain that is not to your liking.  Tough!  But do stop foisting your negative prejudices onto others.

If you don't think the guy is a rat - do present your defence.  This is the thread to do it on!

In the intervening period grow up and DESIST from questioning my motives and criticising my posts NOT ONE OF WHICH has deviated from the truth concerning a very flawed individual indeed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 11:25:54 AM
One of Amaral's motivations was money.

His fortune was made denigrating the parents of the little girl he let down so badly when he botched the investigation into her case then went on to coin it in from every Portuguese media outlet available to him.



Oh my o my

All I can say is it's a good job your on the mccs side...otherwise your post would have a field day with them.

I mean the nastyness ...when you dont even know if he is wrong in him thinking the mccs are involved.

Amaral benefitted from gifts of money solicited by his friends.  These were not transparent but the prime objective was to bankroll him.  Therefore he benefitted personally from money collected on his behalf.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 07, 2023, 11:28:47 AM
It is pretty obvious.

I don't know what motivated Amaral, I only know what he says his motives were. Similarly I don't know what motivated the McCanns apart from what they claimed.

What I don't understand is why the McCann's supporters believe that they can detect Amaral's 'real' motivations, but accept the McCann's word for theirs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 07, 2023, 11:33:06 AM
I don't know what motivated Amaral, I only know what he says his motives were. Similarly I don't know what motivated the McCanns apart from what they claimed.

What I don't understand is why the McCann's supporters believe that they can detect Amaral's 'real' motivations, but accept the McCann's word for theirs.

It is pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 07, 2023, 11:34:33 AM
Do give up on this absolute nonsense you persist on posting - you who allegedly really do not care a jot about Amaral - according to you, despite your posts indicating another story.

Goncalo Amaral is the star of this thread.

You have made it plain that is not to your liking.  Tough!  But do stop foisting your negative prejudices onto others.

If you don't think the guy is a rat - do present your defence.  This is the thread to do it on!

In the intervening period grow up and DESIST from questioning my motives and criticising my posts NOT ONE OF WHICH has deviated from the truth concerning a very flawed individual indeed.

You certainly have very firm opinions about Amaral, but you do tend to prefer speculation to evidence imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 07, 2023, 11:34:59 AM
Amaral benefitted from gifts of money solicited by his friends.  These were not transparent but the prime objective was to bankroll him.  Therefore he benefitted personally from money collected on his behalf.


And.

Doesn't this also apply to the mccs.

IMO he was just trying to do his job.............because they the mccs couldn't do theirs.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 11:46:40 AM
They tried very hard to get an injunction to ban the book before the main case was heard. Eventually their request was denied on 29th October 2010 by the Lisbon Appeal Court. They said 'The injunction is deemed not valid because it was not proved.'
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/court_docs.htm#appeal

The judge of the first instance choose to ignore this and banned the book again, but her action was not surprisingly rejected again on appeal.

Amaral's mate Paulo Pereira Cristovao shared Amaral's literary bent along with other peccadillos "The ex-cop, who left the Policia Judiciaria after a torture trial former Madeleine McCann chief investigator Goncalo Amaral was also implicated in". https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7766609/Portuguese-ex-detective-blasted-Madeleine-McCanns-parents-jailed-seven-half-years.html  In fact he wrote a series of books on missing and exploited children and managed to do so in such a way that he was never accused of libel in any of them.
Amaral wasn't even bright enough to do that - he stupidly got tied up in court proceedings for years, tying up all that lovely money!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 11:52:56 AM
What that GA is wrong.....fair enough if that's your opinion.

It isn't mine though...I think he is and always has been more near the mark

The reason IMO he was got rid of.... he was too close to the truth.

Do you think he knew exactly what happened to Madeleine?  Wouldn't he have had to be involved in it for that to be so?  I think that is a pretty serious accusation to make!

But then again you have his more recent absolutely bizarre actions in falsifying evidence against the German investigation which does raise really serious issues.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 12:01:03 PM
I don't know what motivated Amaral, I only know what he says his motives were. Similarly I don't know what motivated the McCanns apart from what they claimed.

What I don't understand is why the McCann's supporters believe that they can detect Amaral's 'real' motivations, but accept the McCann's word for theirs.

There is a missing child in the equation here.

In case you have forgotten her name is Madeleine McCann and there was a time when NOBODY WAS LOOKING FOR HER bar her parents.

And that was in great measure entirely due to Goncalo Amaral and his conduct of her case during - after - and up until the present day.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 12:08:22 PM
You certainly have very firm opinions about Amaral, but you do tend to prefer speculation to evidence imo.

Once again I must insist you back up your erroneous statement regarding my posts.  Knowing full well you are unable to do so.  Because in accordance with forum rules I have posted nothing but the truth.

I know you don't like that but I do wish you would squirm a bit less continually about it in your posts.  Although I do understand where you are coming from with them, having self appointed yourself as defender of the indefensible.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 07, 2023, 12:10:57 PM
There is a missing child in the equation here.

In case you have forgotten her name is Madeleine McCann and there was a time when NOBODY WAS LOOKING FOR HER bar her parents.

And that was in great measure entirely due to Goncalo Amaral and his conduct of her case during - after - and up until the present day.

Your post can rant on ...but at the end of the day, they prove nothing.

The sheer amount of (often conflicting) information out there might be part of the reason why we’re all so quick to absorb any information about Madeleine McCann. First of all, there are no obvious answers to be found anywhere. Not even from Madeleine’s parents. They said they were checking on their children regularly, but did they go into the apartment or just look in through the window? Why didn’t they use the crèche that was available? What kind of parents leave their children alone in an unlocked apartment, anyway? Were the McCanns irresponsible, or were they responsible— for their daughter’s death?


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 12:11:05 PM

And.

Doesn't this also apply to the mccs.

IMO he was just trying to do his job.............because they the mccs couldn't do theirs.

Stop deflecting!

This thread is about GONCALO AMARAL.  So if you have anything positive to post about him - here is the place to do it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 12:16:58 PM
Your post can rant on ...but at the end of the day, they prove nothing.

The sheer amount of (often conflicting) information out there might be part of the reason why we’re all so quick to absorb any information about Madeleine McCann. First of all, there are no obvious answers to be found anywhere. Not even from Madeleine’s parents. They said they were checking on their children regularly, but did they go into the apartment or just look in through the window? Why didn’t they use the crèche that was available? What kind of parents leave their children alone in an unlocked apartment, anyway? Were the McCanns irresponsible, or were they responsible— for their daughter’s death?

Yet again you resort to victim blaming - which is indeed the tried and tested formula sceptics and Amaral have lived off for years.

There is actually a prime suspect in the frame for the crime against Madeleine.  Pity you seem to have missed that but it is interesting that Amaral did not when he leapt immediately to his defence before anyone had heard of it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 07, 2023, 12:31:41 PM
Yet again you resort to victim blaming - which is indeed the tried and tested formula sceptics and Amaral have lived off for years.

There is actually a prime suspect in the frame for the crime against Madeleine.  Pity you seem to have missed that but it is interesting that Amaral did not when he leapt immediately to his defence before anyone had heard of it.

I think what is deflected is the constant rant about GA [the detective who was on the case] believing the mccs were involved.

yet you seem to have this case cut and dried as the person of interest is guilty

Cant, you see in your posts ...they are just as bad as GA beliefs just different suspects.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2023, 12:34:12 PM
Yet again you resort to victim blaming - which is indeed the tried and tested formula sceptics and Amaral have lived off for years.

There is actually a prime suspect in the frame for the crime against Madeleine.  Pity you seem to have missed that but it is interesting that Amaral did not when he leapt immediately to his defence before anyone had heard of it.

The case against CB is dead imo. He isn't being charged.

When is this going to sink in?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2023, 12:39:50 PM
This year apparently.

According to whom? The Sun?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 07, 2023, 12:57:41 PM
Once again I must insist you back up your erroneous statement regarding my posts.  Knowing full well you are unable to do so.  Because in accordance with forum rules I have posted nothing but the truth.

I know you don't like that but I do wish you would squirm a bit less continually about it in your posts.  Although I do understand where you are coming from with them, having self appointed yourself as defender of the indefensible.

You can't say it's the truth when you are speculating about someone's motives because;

Motivation is unprovable. Even a man’s signed testimony discussing his motivation cannot be trusted – does he have a motive to lie about his motivation? You cannot know for certain.
https://netwar.wordpress.com/2007/08/25/motives-and-consequences/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 07, 2023, 02:35:14 PM

Amaral is a Liar and a Thief.  Both acts committed some time before Madeleine McCann disappeared.  He is also a Phillanderer.

He thought that none of this would be exposed to The Public at large.  Since when he has continued to lie blatantly and repeatedly.  And still Portugal does nothing.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 02:38:34 PM
I think what is deflected is the constant rant about GA [the detective who was on the case] believing the mccs were involved.

yet you seem to have this case cut and dried as the person of interest is guilty

Cant, you see in your posts ...they are just as bad as GA beliefs just different suspects.

Yet again you are misrepresenting what I am saying in my posts which is basically a dishonest tactic refined by Amaral supporters of a man proven to be a stranger to the truth.

The only posters wallowing in the guilt of named persons are those sceptics who follow the Amaral fantasies and who haven't yet grasped the concept of the presumption of innocence much as he hasn't.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 02:46:08 PM
You can't say it's the truth when you are speculating about someone's motives because;

Motivation is unprovable. Even a man’s signed testimony discussing his motivation cannot be trusted – does he have a motive to lie about his motivation? You cannot know for certain.
https://netwar.wordpress.com/2007/08/25/motives-and-consequences/

The ONLY poster dishonestly speculating about the motivation of other posters is YOURSELF.  I think it is way beyond time for you to refresh on the forum rules where I think you will find such antagonistic and prejudicial speculation is against the forum ethos.

I have posted NO speculation regarding Amaral.  ALL I have posted about him is a matter of record.  Can you say the same - I rather think not!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2023, 02:54:06 PM
Amaral is a Liar and a Thief.  Both acts committed some time before Madeleine McCann disappeared.  He is also a Phillanderer.

He thought that none of this would be exposed to The Public at large.  Since when he has continued to lie blatantly and repeatedly.  And still Portugal does nothing.

Yes. What a terrible man Amaral is. He could still be right about the McCanns though. Certainly, the three investigative forces are having no success in proving him wrong anyway.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 07, 2023, 02:55:35 PM
According to whom? The Sun?

Who got it from a sauce close to the investigation, the same sauce that fed nonsense about OG over the years.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 03:14:35 PM
You can't say it's the truth when you are speculating about someone's motives because;

Motivation is unprovable. Even a man’s signed testimony discussing his motivation cannot be trusted – does he have a motive to lie about his motivation? You cannot know for certain.
https://netwar.wordpress.com/2007/08/25/motives-and-consequences/
As the McCanns mark 10 agonising years without Madeleine, how can Portuguese police keep being so vile?
Kate and gerry have had to rebuild their family as they suffer the agony of not knowing where their oldest child is, but now one ex-cop is airing yet more ludicrous claims

The SPECULATION that "... slug-like Portuguese ­ex-cop Goncalo Amaral to crawl out of his hole and slither around in their pain" he was busy promoting from yet another lucrative foray into building up his pension pot "He was on Portuguese ­television again pointing the finger at Maddie’s parents – the twins’ parents – and claiming she may have been hidden in a Praia de Luz church before being cremated .

Why the ­Portuguese broadcasters give him air time is a total mystery. Presumably it suits some to pump out such lies to deflect from their police failings.

Meanwhile another former Portuguese cop, Carlos Anjos, who probably knows less about the details of the case than my cat, has laid into the £11million Scotland Yard investigation as a ‘waste of money’.

Mr Anjos, a former inspector, is entitled to his opinion. Except that he is the former head of the Portuguese police union so his chief concern isn’t Maddie - it’s defending his officers’ botched investigation."


And all this with malice a fore thought on the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance when the real investigation and her parents were getting on with the job of finding out what happened to Madeleine.

I see no evidence that Amaral wants Madeleine's case to be solved but I do see evidence affirming the contrary


He (Anjos) and Amaral could do everyone a favour on this anniversary by keeping their opinions strictly to themselves.

Because these men know every smear or suggestion they make will be lapped up and repeated by the sickos and saddos of social media whose conspiracy ­theories have continued ­relentlessly over the past decade.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mccanns-mark-10-agonising-years-10343580
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 07, 2023, 03:22:51 PM
As the McCanns mark 10 agonising years without Madeleine, how can Portuguese police keep being so vile?
Kate and gerry have had to rebuild their family as they suffer the agony of not knowing where their oldest child is, but now one ex-cop is airing yet more ludicrous claims

The SPECULATION that "... slug-like Portuguese ­ex-cop Goncalo Amaral to crawl out of his hole and slither around in their pain" he was busy promoting from yet another lucrative foray into building up his pension pot "He was on Portuguese ­television again pointing the finger at Maddie’s parents – the twins’ parents – and claiming she may have been hidden in a Praia de Luz church before being cremated .

Why the ­Portuguese broadcasters give him air time is a total mystery. Presumably it suits some to pump out such lies to deflect from their police failings.

Meanwhile another former Portuguese cop, Carlos Anjos, who probably knows less about the details of the case than my cat, has laid into the £11million Scotland Yard investigation as a ‘waste of money’.

Mr Anjos, a former inspector, is entitled to his opinion. Except that he is the former head of the Portuguese police union so his chief concern isn’t Maddie - it’s defending his officers’ botched investigation."


And all this with malice a fore thought on the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance when the real investigation and her parents were getting on with the job of finding out what happened to Madeleine.

I see no evidence that Amaral wants Madeleine's case to be solved but I do see evidence affirming the contrary


He (Anjos) and Amaral could do everyone a favour on this anniversary by keeping their opinions strictly to themselves.

Because these men know every smear or suggestion they make will be lapped up and repeated by the sickos and saddos of social media whose conspiracy ­theories have continued ­relentlessly over the past decade.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mccanns-mark-10-agonising-years-10343580


Sickos and Saddos.  That's about it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 03:23:10 PM
Who got it from a sauce close to the investigation, the same sauce that fed nonsense about OG over the years.

For those who are unaware "SAUCE" for some reason is a McCann sceptic derogatory interpretation of the word "SOURCE"

Why?  You would have to ask one of them about that.  Only they could be so infantile when 'discussing' a missing child.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2023, 03:23:49 PM
As the McCanns mark 10 agonising years without Madeleine, how can Portuguese police keep being so vile?
Kate and gerry have had to rebuild their family as they suffer the agony of not knowing where their oldest child is, but now one ex-cop is airing yet more ludicrous claims

The SPECULATION that "... slug-like Portuguese ­ex-cop Goncalo Amaral to crawl out of his hole and slither around in their pain" he was busy promoting from yet another lucrative foray into building up his pension pot "He was on Portuguese ­television again pointing the finger at Maddie’s parents – the twins’ parents – and claiming she may have been hidden in a Praia de Luz church before being cremated .

Why the ­Portuguese broadcasters give him air time is a total mystery. Presumably it suits some to pump out such lies to deflect from their police failings.

Meanwhile another former Portuguese cop, Carlos Anjos, who probably knows less about the details of the case than my cat, has laid into the £11million Scotland Yard investigation as a ‘waste of money’.

Mr Anjos, a former inspector, is entitled to his opinion. Except that he is the former head of the Portuguese police union so his chief concern isn’t Maddie - it’s defending his officers’ botched investigation."


And all this with malice a fore thought on the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance when the real investigation and her parents were getting on with the job of finding out what happened to Madeleine.

I see no evidence that Amaral wants Madeleine's case to be solved but I do see evidence affirming the contrary


He (Anjos) and Amaral could do everyone a favour on this anniversary by keeping their opinions strictly to themselves.

Because these men know every smear or suggestion they make will be lapped up and repeated by the sickos and saddos of social media whose conspiracy ­theories have continued ­relentlessly over the past decade.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mccanns-mark-10-agonising-years-10343580

Angry opinion piece, brought to you by some hysterical woman.

Absolute seethe on display 8()(((@#

I hope she got over it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 07, 2023, 03:24:36 PM
Yet again you are misrepresenting what I am saying in my posts which is basically a dishonest tactic refined by Amaral supporters of a man proven to be a stranger to the truth.

The only posters wallowing in the guilt of named persons are those sceptics who follow the Amaral fantasies and who haven't yet grasped the concept of the presumption of innocence much as he hasn't.


No I'm not misrepresenting anything you are yet again.

f named persons are those sceptics who follow the Amaral fantasies

This is exactly what I mean ....do you honestly think it's because of GA that anyone thinks the mccs are involved, or don't believe Maddie was abducted.

If so the fantasy is yours.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 03:26:04 PM

Sickos and Saddos.  That's about it.

Confirmed by the resurrection of "SAUCES" 🙄
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 03:30:46 PM

No I'm not misrepresenting anything you are yet again.

f named persons are those sceptics who follow the Amaral fantasies

This is exactly what I mean ....do you honestly think it's because of GA that anyone thinks the mccs are involved, or don't believe Maddie was abducted.

If so the fantasy is yours.

The problem arising as far as sceptics are concerned is that Amaral has emerged from the small niche he inhabited and is open to the full glare of a more discerning public.
I don't think he is emerging well from it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 03:41:22 PM
Angry opinion piece, brought to you by some hysterical woman.

Absolute seethe on display 8()(((@#

I hope she got over it.

Oh I think when it was leaked into the public domain what the police were doing when Amaral was working his vile sceptic agenda on Portuguese tv ~ I think she would be quite content.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 07, 2023, 04:34:05 PM
The problem arising as far as sceptics are concerned is that Amaral has emerged from the small niche he inhabited and is open to the full glare of a more discerning public.
I don't think he is emerging well from it.

I don't think he is emerging well from it.

Well, I doubt anyone is really interested in what you think in a post...... apart from here.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 07, 2023, 04:40:02 PM
As the McCanns mark 10 agonising years without Madeleine, how can Portuguese police keep being so vile?
Kate and gerry have had to rebuild their family as they suffer the agony of not knowing where their oldest child is, but now one ex-cop is airing yet more ludicrous claims

The SPECULATION that "... slug-like Portuguese ­ex-cop Goncalo Amaral to crawl out of his hole and slither around in their pain" he was busy promoting from yet another lucrative foray into building up his pension pot "He was on Portuguese ­television again pointing the finger at Maddie’s parents – the twins’ parents – and claiming she may have been hidden in a Praia de Luz church before being cremated .

Why the ­Portuguese broadcasters give him air time is a total mystery. Presumably it suits some to pump out such lies to deflect from their police failings.

Meanwhile another former Portuguese cop, Carlos Anjos, who probably knows less about the details of the case than my cat, has laid into the £11million Scotland Yard investigation as a ‘waste of money’.

Mr Anjos, a former inspector, is entitled to his opinion. Except that he is the former head of the Portuguese police union so his chief concern isn’t Maddie - it’s defending his officers’ botched investigation."


And all this with malice a fore thought on the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance when the real investigation and her parents were getting on with the job of finding out what happened to Madeleine.

I see no evidence that Amaral wants Madeleine's case to be solved but I do see evidence affirming the contrary


He (Anjos) and Amaral could do everyone a favour on this anniversary by keeping their opinions strictly to themselves.

Because these men know every smear or suggestion they make will be lapped up and repeated by the sickos and saddos of social media whose conspiracy ­theories have continued ­relentlessly over the past decade.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mccanns-mark-10-agonising-years-10343580

Nothing to do with Amaral's motives, except that Alison Phillips thinks he speaks to hurt the McCann twins.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 06:21:08 PM
I don't think he is emerging well from it.

Well, I doubt anyone is really interested in what you think in a post...... apart from here.

There are some here - you amongst them who appear to hang onto every word I say even if only for distortion purposes.

But interesting as I am the thread remains dedicated to Goncalo Amaral.  Poor thing that he is when one considers that the sceptic supporters who are posting here just have not a good word to say about him.  NOT A WORD!

How very sad is that!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 07, 2023, 06:28:01 PM
Nothing to do with Amaral's motives, except that Alison Phillips thinks he speaks to hurt the McCann twins.

The only poster here who appears to have hang ups about Amaral's "motives" would appear to be you.  Although it seems that Alison Phillips does have a measure of the man who has gone through the lexicon of disturbed theories - each latest one sicker than the one preceding it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 07, 2023, 06:57:03 PM
There are some here - you amongst them who appear to hang onto every word I say even if only for distortion purposes.

But interesting as I am the thread remains dedicated to Goncalo Amaral.  Poor thing that he is when one considers that the sceptic supporters who are posting here just have not a good word to say about him.  NOT A WORD!

How very sad is that!

I found him strangely alluring when he was fat & had a big moustache.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 08, 2023, 01:16:25 PM
There are some here - you amongst them who appear to hang onto every word I say even if only for distortion purposes.

But interesting as I am the thread remains dedicated to Goncalo Amaral.  Poor thing that he is when one considers that the sceptic supporters who are posting here just have not a good word to say about him.  NOT A WORD!

How very sad is that!



How very sad is that

I don't get your point why should anyone want to say a good word ...The title is Goncalo Ameral. Not a praise GA.


As for hanging on to your every word you say. You posted in reply to my opinion and then blame posts for deflecting yours.

GA does not need praise ...he has the privilege of using his voice [and does so] that he does not believe the mccs version of events ..or abduction. same as a vast majority it seems.

Constantly went on about him being a convicted lier etc etc...yet he still had credibility it seems to win all libel trial


Your posts seem obsessed with GA. and seem to take things personally.

How very sad is that?




Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 08, 2023, 01:46:53 PM


How very sad is that

I don't get your point why should anyone want to say a good word ...The title is Goncalo Ameral. Not a praise GA.


As for hanging on to your every word you say. You posted in reply to my opinion and then blame posts for deflecting yours.

GA does not need praise ...he has the privilege of using his voice [and does so] that he does not believe the mccs version of events ..or abduction. same as a vast majority it seems.

Constantly went on about him being a convicted lier etc etc...yet he still had credibility it seems to win all libel trial


Your posts seem obsessed with GA. and seem to take things personally.

How very sad is that?

If you cannot recognise that Amaral is root and branch of the mismanagement which turned what was really a simple abduction case into one of the mysteries of the century - I think you require to give some pertinent thought to the matter in hand.

Hurling insults at me simply won't suffice.  It begins with Amaral and his conduct.  And now after recent events I am not at all sure it may not end with him too.


Snip
In an effort to make up for lost time following Amaral's dismissal, Rebelo has recruited his own men from Lisbon. To the fury of the original officers, he has lost little time in sidelining them, bringing in two child sex experts from the Casa Pia case as well as homicide specialists and computer analysts - known as "the cleaners" due to their reputation for leaving no stone unturned.

According to senior police sources, he also launched a furious private attack on the 100 officers involved in the original inquiry, which he has now cut back to 40.

At a meeting, he accused some officers of having "closed minds" about who was guilty, saying that "pre-conceptions should be challenged".

In addition, he oversaw Operation Predator - raids on more than 70 suspected paedophiles, whose computers were searched last week for images of Madeleine or other evidence of criminal sexual acts. Although by last night Rebelo had failed to make a breakthrough, sources say it is a clear sign, along with reports that Russian child traffickers may be involved, of a strand of his current thinking.
___________________________________________________________

So, after enduring months of soul-destroying leaks from the Portuguese police - from claims that they drugged Madeleine and then disposed of her body, to allegations that Gerry was not even her real father - the McCanns are no longer the sole focus of the Portuguese police investigation.

But the nightmare goes on. A group of officers loyal to Amaral are still leaking smears to the Portuguese press.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488654/Why-Portugal-haven-paedophiles--disturbing-backcloth-Madeleine-case.html


So on takeover from disgraced Amaral, Rebelo moved the focus of Madeleine's case to take in the wider picture. 

The shocking thing about this is the illustration of Amaral's neglect.

It had to wait for Rebelo to check out the obvious when investigating an abducted child  "... he oversaw Operation Predator - raids on more than 70 suspected paedophiles, whose computers were searched last week for images of Madeleine or other evidence of criminal sexual acts." Quite obviously Amaral just hadn't bothered!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 08, 2023, 02:10:34 PM

All of this mess happened so long ago that it is easy to forget how incompetent it was.

I have always been more interested in how Amaral became The Coordinator in the first place.  The PJ Hierarchy already knew that he had Lied in Court in the Case of another Missing Child.  What on earth did they think they were doing?  Or was The Algarve some backwater that didn't matter?

Two small girls vanished from the area in the space of two and a half years and within about seven miles.  Convict the mother of the first small girl on No Evidence and then do their best to stitch up the mother of the second small girl.  And no one within The PJ Hierarchy thought that this was even remotely peculiar.

This is utterly disgusting.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 08, 2023, 02:19:41 PM
All of this mess happened so long ago that it is easy to forget how incompetent it was.

I have always been more interested in how Amaral became The Coordinator in the first place.  The PJ Hierarchy already knew that he had Lied in Court in the Case of another Missing Child.  What on earth did they think they were doing?  Or was The Algarve some backwater that didn't matter?

Two small girls vanished from the area in the space of two and a half years and within about seven miles.  Convict the mother of the first small girl on No Evidence and then do their best to stitch up the mother of the second small girl.  And no one within The PJ Hierarchy thought that this was even remotely peculiar.

This is utterly disgusting.

I think Madeleine's case was played against the backdrop of Casa Pia and I don't think it is any coincidence that missing Joana's case and missing Madeleine's case had at their head the same three police officers.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 08, 2023, 02:48:41 PM
If you cannot recognise that Amaral is root and branch of the mismanagement which turned what was really a simple abduction case into one of the mysteries of the century - I think you require to give some pertinent thought to the matter in hand.

Hurling insults at me simply won't suffice.  It begins with Amaral and his conduct.  And now after recent events I am not at all sure it may not end with him too.


Snip
In an effort to make up for lost time following Amaral's dismissal, Rebelo has recruited his own men from Lisbon. To the fury of the original officers, he has lost little time in sidelining them, bringing in two child sex experts from the Casa Pia case as well as homicide specialists and computer analysts - known as "the cleaners" due to their reputation for leaving no stone unturned.

According to senior police sources, he also launched a furious private attack on the 100 officers involved in the original inquiry, which he has now cut back to 40.

At a meeting, he accused some officers of having "closed minds" about who was guilty, saying that "pre-conceptions should be challenged".

In addition, he oversaw Operation Predator - raids on more than 70 suspected paedophiles, whose computers were searched last week for images of Madeleine or other evidence of criminal sexual acts. Although by last night Rebelo had failed to make a breakthrough, sources say it is a clear sign, along with reports that Russian child traffickers may be involved, of a strand of his current thinking.
___________________________________________________________

So, after enduring months of soul-destroying leaks from the Portuguese police - from claims that they drugged Madeleine and then disposed of her body, to allegations that Gerry was not even her real father - the McCanns are no longer the sole focus of the Portuguese police investigation.

But the nightmare goes on. A group of officers loyal to Amaral are still leaking smears to the Portuguese press.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488654/Why-Portugal-haven-paedophiles--disturbing-backcloth-Madeleine-case.html


So on takeover from disgraced Amaral, Rebelo moved the focus of Madeleine's case to take in the wider picture. 

The shocking thing about this is the illustration of Amaral's neglect.

It had to wait for Rebelo to check out the obvious when investigating an abducted child  "... he oversaw Operation Predator - raids on more than 70 suspected paedophiles, whose computers were searched last week for images of Madeleine or other evidence of criminal sexual acts." Quite obviously Amaral just hadn't bothered!

There is nothing in the PJ files suggesting that Rebelo took the investigation in a different direction. Nor that any computers were searched.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 08, 2023, 03:01:34 PM
I think Madeleine's case was played against the backdrop of Casa Pia and I don't think it is any coincidence that missing Joana's case and missing Madeleine's case had at their head the same three police officers.

But why the same three Police Officers?  All of whom have since been discredited in various ways.  Something is rotten in The State of Denmark.

I would so like to think that this was just a mistake, but I am finding it increasingly hard.  So how can The Sceptics go on supporting such incompetence?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 08, 2023, 03:38:19 PM
If you cannot recognise that Amaral is root and branch of the mismanagement which turned what was really a simple abduction case into one of the mysteries of the century - I think you require to give some pertinent thought to the matter in hand.

Hurling insults at me simply won't suffice.  It begins with Amaral and his conduct.  And now after recent events I am not at all sure it may not end with him too.


Snip
In an effort to make up for lost time following Amaral's dismissal, Rebelo has recruited his own men from Lisbon. To the fury of the original officers, he has lost little time in sidelining them, bringing in two child sex experts from the Casa Pia case as well as homicide specialists and computer analysts - known as "the cleaners" due to their reputation for leaving no stone unturned.

According to senior police sources, he also launched a furious private attack on the 100 officers involved in the original inquiry, which he has now cut back to 40.

At a meeting, he accused some officers of having "closed minds" about who was guilty, saying that "pre-conceptions should be challenged".

In addition, he oversaw Operation Predator - raids on more than 70 suspected paedophiles, whose computers were searched last week for images of Madeleine or other evidence of criminal sexual acts. Although by last night Rebelo had failed to make a breakthrough, sources say it is a clear sign, along with reports that Russian child traffickers may be involved, of a strand of his current thinking.
___________________________________________________________

So, after enduring months of soul-destroying leaks from the Portuguese police - from claims that they drugged Madeleine and then disposed of her body, to allegations that Gerry was not even her real father - the McCanns are no longer the sole focus of the Portuguese police investigation.

But the nightmare goes on. A group of officers loyal to Amaral are still leaking smears to the Portuguese press.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488654/Why-Portugal-haven-paedophiles--disturbing-backcloth-Madeleine-case.html


So on takeover from disgraced Amaral, Rebelo moved the focus of Madeleine's case to take in the wider picture. 

The shocking thing about this is the illustration of Amaral's neglect.

It had to wait for Rebelo to check out the obvious when investigating an abducted child  "... he oversaw Operation Predator - raids on more than 70 suspected paedophiles, whose computers were searched last week for images of Madeleine or other evidence of criminal sexual acts." Quite obviously Amaral just hadn't bothered!


If you cannot recognise that Amaral is root and branch of the mismanagement which turned what was really a simple abduction case into one of the mysteries of the century - I think you require to give some pertinent thought to the matter in hand.


You won't be surprised by my reply.

The root and the mismanagement.... was the mccs leaving babies on their own in an unlocked room as for abduction no evidence of that.

Crime scene messup up with 20 + people been allowed in by the mccs

G.A. was not a one-man band.

As for insulting you   @)(++(*...you would soon know if I was.... believe me.

But I don't take your post seriously enough to do that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 08, 2023, 03:56:12 PM

"If you cannot recognise that Amaral is root and branch of the mismanagement which turned what was really a simple abduction case into one of the mysteries of the century - I think you require to give some pertinent thought to the matter in hand."


You won't be surprised by my reply.

The root and the mismanagement.... was the mccs leaving babies on their own in an unlocked room as for abduction no evidence of that.

Crime scene messup up with 20 + people been allowed in by the mccs

G.A. was not a one-man band.

As for insulting you   @)(++(*...you would soon know if I was.... believe me.

But I don't take your post seriously enough to do that.

I've asked Brietta before quite how it is she knows Madeleine was abducted. She states it as a fact al the time, but she never explains how she knows it to be a fact?

Could you try asking her how she knows the McCanns are innocent? Maybe she'll give you an answer, because I've never had one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 08, 2023, 04:17:38 PM
There is nothing in the PJ files suggesting that Rebelo took the investigation in a different direction. Nor that any computers were searched.

Neither is there anything in the Levy files pertaining to Brueckner but we know the information is there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 08, 2023, 04:21:07 PM
I've asked Brietta before quite how it is she knows Madeleine was abducted. She states it as a fact al the time, but she never explains how she knows it to be a fact?

Could you try asking her how she knows the McCanns are innocent? Maybe she'll give you an answer, because I've never had one.

No, he/she won't because it isn't fact only opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 08, 2023, 04:24:27 PM
But why the same three Police Officers?  All of whom have since been discredited in various ways.  Something is rotten in The State of Denmark.

I would so like to think that this was just a mistake, but I am finding it increasingly hard.  So how can The Sceptics go on supporting such incompetence?

By the time of Madeleine's disappearance Cristovao had already been dismissed.  But he maintained his influence over her case by means of a daily column fed by "sources close to the investigation" which kept the pot boiling under many of the lies and myths which polluted the media.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 08, 2023, 04:35:56 PM

If you cannot recognise that Amaral is root and branch of the mismanagement which turned what was really a simple abduction case into one of the mysteries of the century - I think you require to give some pertinent thought to the matter in hand.


You won't be surprised by my reply.

The root and the mismanagement.... was the mccs leaving babies on their own in an unlocked room as for abduction no evidence of that.

Crime scene messup up with 20 + people been allowed in by the mccs

G.A. was not a one-man band.

As for insulting you   @)(++(*...you would soon know if I was.... believe me.

But I don't take your post seriously enough to do that.

Sigh ~ we know and more to the point the McCanns know and have atoned for it by never never never never ever giving up on Madeleine for every subsequent minute of every day of their lives since.

The difference between them and sceptics is that they want Madeleine's disappearance to be explained - neither sceptics nor Amaral ever want that to happen.

You are incapable of letting go of victim blaming.  It is for the POLICE to secure a crime scene ~ not the victims.  And you have just made the first positive statement I can recall you making when you comment on the POLICE FAILURE to secure the crime scene and collect forensic evidence.

AMARAL'S FIRST FAILURE among many.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 08, 2023, 04:53:31 PM
Sigh ~ we know and more to the point the McCanns know and have atoned for it by never never never never ever giving up on Madeleine for every subsequent minute of every day of their lives since.

The difference between them and sceptics is that they want Madeleine's disappearance to be explained - neither sceptics nor Amaral ever want that to happen.

You are incapable of letting go of victim blaming.  It is for the POLICE to secure a crime scene ~ not the victims.  And you have just made the first positive statement I can recall you making when you comment on the POLICE FAILURE to secure the crime scene and collect forensic evidence.

AMARAL'S FIRST FAILURE among many.


The difference between them and sceptics is that they want Madeleine's disappearance to be explained - neither sceptics nor Amaral ever want that to happen.

Well GA knew that Maddie wasn't going to turn up anytime soon.............and she didn't.





You are incapable of letting go of victim blaming

Think the victim apart from Maddie was GA.......A victim your post can't let go of.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 08, 2023, 05:25:23 PM

The difference between them and sceptics is that they want Madeleine's disappearance to be explained - neither sceptics nor Amaral ever want that to happen.

Well GA knew that Maddie wasn't going to turn up anytime soon.............and she didn't.





You are incapable of letting go of victim blaming

Think the victim apart from Maddie was GA.......A victim your post can't let go of.

You said - "Well GA knew that Maddie wasn't going to turn up anytime soon.............and she didn't."  One wonders why it has never piqued your curiosity how he could be so certain about Madeleine and the very similar case of Joana Cipriano.

You said - "Think the victim apart from Maddie was GA.......A victim your post can't let go of."  Firstly, please allow me to remind you of the thread title "Goncalo Amaral" which makes it perfectly appropriate for me. you or anyone else who wishes to comment on Amaral to be allowed to comment without let or hindrance.

Known as freedom of speech and on this forum at least only that which is true is acceptable, so I won't be letting go of the truth despite your antipathy to my posts.

As far as Amaral being a VICTIM goes.  You believe it or you wouldn't have posted it and I have no doubt that that there is evidence of past paranoia directed towards Madeleine's parents.  For example Amaral was of the opinion that his political career was thwarted by Gerry (never crossed his mind his criminal conviction and history might have been of significance) it was all the fault of McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 08, 2023, 05:29:47 PM
You said - "Well GA knew that Maddie wasn't going to turn up anytime soon.............and she didn't."  One wonders why it has never piqued your curiosity how he could be so certain about Madeleine and the very similar case of Joana Cipriano.

You said - "Think the victim apart from Maddie was GA.......A victim your post can't let go of."  Firstly, please allow me to remind you of the thread title "Goncalo Amaral" which makes it perfectly appropriate for me. you or anyone else who wishes to comment on Amaral to be allowed to comment without let or hindrance.

Known as freedom of speech and on this forum at least only that which is true is acceptable, so I won't be letting go of the truth despite your antipathy to my posts.

As far as Amaral being a VICTIM goes.  You believe it or you wouldn't have posted it and I have no doubt that that there is evidence of past paranoia directed towards Madeleine's parents.  For example Amaral was of the opinion that his political career was thwarted by Gerry (never crossed his mind his criminal conviction and history might have been of significance) it was all the fault of McCann.

Why do you keep stating as fact that Madeleine was abducted then? If only that which is true is acceptable.
You have no way of knowing for certain Madeleine was abducted, do you?  Otherwise, would you care to explain how you know it to be true that there was an abduction?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 08, 2023, 05:32:38 PM
Sigh ~ we know and more to the point the McCanns know and have atoned for it by never never never never ever giving up on Madeleine for every subsequent minute of every day of their lives since.

The difference between them and sceptics is that they want Madeleine's disappearance to be explained - neither sceptics nor Amaral ever want that to happen.

You are incapable of letting go of victim blaming.  It is for the POLICE to secure a crime scene ~ not the victims.  And you have just made the first positive statement I can recall you making when you comment on the POLICE FAILURE to secure the crime scene and collect forensic evidence.

AMARAL'S FIRST FAILURE among many.

The PJ locked 5A and left a guard on it so forensics could go there on 4th May from Lisbon.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 08, 2023, 05:53:34 PM
The PJ locked 5A and left a guard on it so forensics could go there on 4th May from Lisbon.

At what hour?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on January 08, 2023, 05:58:14 PM
Wasn't it about 04.30 when they'd managed to get the last of the Tapas group out of the apartment?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 08, 2023, 06:04:50 PM
The PJ locked 5A and left a guard on it so forensics could go there on 4th May from Lisbon.

If that is the case ~ what is the sceptic problem then?

I think you've got it wrong though.  I think forensics were there according to the photographs, and botched some of the samples which were sent to the Portuguese lab.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 08, 2023, 06:21:57 PM
You said - "Well GA knew that Maddie wasn't going to turn up anytime soon.............and she didn't."  One wonders why it has never piqued your curiosity how he could be so certain about Madeleine and the very similar case of Joana Cipriano.

You said - "Think the victim apart from Maddie was GA.......A victim your post can't let go of."  Firstly, please allow me to remind you of the thread title "Goncalo Amaral" which makes it perfectly appropriate for me. you or anyone else who wishes to comment on Amaral to be allowed to comment without let or hindrance.

Known as freedom of speech and on this forum at least only that which is true is acceptable, so I won't be letting go of the truth despite your antipathy to my posts.

As far as Amaral being a VICTIM goes.  You believe it or you wouldn't have posted it and I have no doubt that that there is evidence of past paranoia directed towards Madeleine's parents.  For example Amaral was of the opinion that his political career was thwarted by Gerry (never crossed his mind his criminal conviction and history might have been of significance) it was all the fault of McCann.


He knew she wasn't going to turn up anytime soon .... because he knew the abduction was simulated.

The conviction did nothing to blemish his credibility at liable trials did it ...he won them all even the highest in the land.

What the mccs had to say fell on deaf ears.

As for the rest f your post ....pleese take your advice to me........ yourself B
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 08, 2023, 06:26:19 PM

He knew she wasn't going to turn up anytime soon .... because he knew the abduction was simulated.

The conviction did nothing to blemish his credibility at liable trials did it ...he won them all even the highest in the land.

What the mccs had to say fell on deaf ears.

As for the rest f your post ....pleese take your advice to me........ yourself B

The problem may lie in that you appear to think Amaral is omniscient.  He thinks Calpol is a sedative, so he really knows nothing much at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on January 09, 2023, 01:18:22 AM
The craziest part is that Amaral himself confirmed in an interview in Amsterdam May 2009 that no drugs, prescription or otherwise, were found by PJ in 5A. The Calpol hypothesis must have arisen from later comments by Madeleine's grandfather and, once again, added to the list of dubious insinuations of foul play by the parents.

https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id173.htm
 
05 May 2009

*snipped*

Q: Are you hoping the McCanns will sue you?
 
A: Yes! (here he gave a Portugese metaphor about a bullfight, something about having to first entice the bull into the middle of the ring before the fight can start).
 
Q: Is it true, as was reported in De Telegraaf, that an injection needle was found in the apartment?
 
A: No, that is not true. In fact we have found no medication at all. None at all. Except for 'likdoornpleisters' = litt.: corn plasters (for your feet - sorry can't find a better translation).
 
Q: Do you think the children were sedated?
 
A: There is no doubt.
(Here he told an anecdote: that Kate called a colleague of Gonçalo Amaral's in the PJ, in August, to ask them to check the twins for traces of sedation. Apparently Kate was alone when she called, and a bit upset. That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd forgotten just how many interviews GA participated in during 2008/9.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 09, 2023, 08:17:41 AM
The craziest part is that Amaral himself confirmed in an interview in Amsterdam May 2009 that no drugs, prescription or otherwise, were found by PJ in 5A. The Calpol hypothesis must have arisen from later comments by Madeleine's grandfather and, once again, added to the list of dubious insinuations of foul play by the parents.

https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id173.htm
 
05 May 2009

*snipped*

Q: Are you hoping the McCanns will sue you?
 
A: Yes! (here he gave a Portugese metaphor about a bullfight, something about having to first entice the bull into the middle of the ring before the fight can start).
 
Q: Is it true, as was reported in De Telegraaf, that an injection needle was found in the apartment?
 
A: No, that is not true. In fact we have found no medication at all. None at all. Except for 'likdoornpleisters' = litt.: corn plasters (for your feet - sorry can't find a better translation).
 
Q: Do you think the children were sedated?
 
A: There is no doubt.
(Here he told an anecdote: that Kate called a colleague of Gonçalo Amaral's in the PJ, in August, to ask them to check the twins for traces of sedation. Apparently Kate was alone when she called, and a bit upset. That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd forgotten just how many interviews GA participated in during 2008/9.

Brian Healy commented about Calpol in September 2007 I know. Did he comment again later?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on January 09, 2023, 09:29:09 AM

The difference between them and sceptics is that they want Madeleine's disappearance to be explained - neither sceptics nor Amaral ever want that to happen.

Well GA knew that Maddie wasn't going to turn up anytime soon.............and she didn't.







You are incapable of letting go of victim blaming

Think the victim apart from Maddie was GA.......A victim your post can't let go of.

Amaral wasn't looking for Madeleine,  he was intent on blaming the parents.

The McCann's were having dinner when Madeleine went missing,  laughing and joking with friends.   Then they found Madeleine missing and they were devastated.   Try telling me how parents could be laughing and joking if they had hidden their dead Childs body.   If you can tell me when and how they did it.   You won't be able to as it is all a load of rubbish.  Amaral heard the DNA results didn't understand them and designed his theory around the misunderstood results.   Coming up with the most ridiculous ideas.   Madeleine in the car three weeks after she disappeared.  The man is crazy.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 09, 2023, 09:46:31 AM
Amaral wasn't looking for Madeleine,  he was intent on blaming the parents.

The McCann's were having dinner when Madeleine went missing,  laughing and joking with friends.   Then they found Madeleine missing and they were devastated.   Try telling me how parents could be laughing and joking if they had hidden their dead Childs body.   If you can tell me when and how they did it.   You won't be able to as it is all a load of rubbish.  Amaral heard the DNA results didn't understand them and designed his theory around the misunderstood results.   Coming up with the most ridiculous ideas.   Madeleine in the car three weeks after she disappeared.  The man is crazy.

Because people can & do lie about things. It happens all the time. How about that?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 09, 2023, 10:05:50 AM
Amaral wasn't looking for Madeleine,  he was intent on blaming the parents.

The McCann's were having dinner when Madeleine went missing,  laughing and joking with friends.   Then they found Madeleine missing and they were devastated.   Try telling me how parents could be laughing and joking if they had hidden their dead Childs body.   If you can tell me when and how they did it.   You won't be able to as it is all a load of rubbish.  Amaral heard the DNA results didn't understand them and designed his theory around the misunderstood results.   Coming up with the most ridiculous ideas.   Madeleine in the car three weeks after she disappeared.  The man is crazy.

That version of events has yet to be tested in a court of law, but no doubt with his concrete evidence Wolters will confirm it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 09, 2023, 10:19:16 AM
That version of events has yet to be tested in a court of law, but no doubt with his concrete evidence Wolters will confirm it.

Yes, the concrete evidence does indeed confirm that Madeleine was alive & in her bed that evening, & that the curtains just blew open, as Wolters will be proving in just a few months time.
Not much longer now guys. Don't lose faith in the concrete evidence.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on January 09, 2023, 11:27:44 AM
Yes, the concrete evidence does indeed confirm that Madeleine was alive & in her bed that evening, & that the curtains just blew open, as Wolters will be proving in just a few months time.
Not much longer now guys. Don't lose faith in the concrete evidence.

Amaral wouldn't have any problem in agreeing the curtains blew open as he says at the beginning of his book that it was windy at night.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 09, 2023, 11:34:26 AM
Amaral wouldn't have any problem in agreeing the curtains blew open as he says at the beginning of his book that it was windy at night.

I don't think he was convinced by the tale of the open window and shutter however.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Lace on January 09, 2023, 11:37:55 AM
I don't think he was convinced by the tale of the open window and shutter however.


Amaral -  At the end of April 2007, it's spring in the Algarve, even if the weather is particularly gloomy. It rains often. While the sun shines, the temperature becomes pleasant, but the nights are cold and windy.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 09, 2023, 12:04:00 PM
I don't think he was convinced by the tale of the open window and shutter however.

Topic: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
Does anyone think its strange how two little girls go missing ...and Amaral chose the same body in a fridge theory ...?
Reference to the Joana Cipriano and Madeleine McCann cases.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=tktdtq3k9vq3837iaju2on29j6&topic=2898.msg100652#msg100652

There is a lot that Amaral manged to convince himself about and all without a shred of supporting evidence to back his notions up.

The fridge was a bit of a cause celebre thing for a time.  All utter nonsense of course.  But when in the process of ignoring real evidence - such as Brueckner's phone pings - while making a story up as you go along is really just the pits.

By the way - the evidence presented regarding the open window and the raised shutters came from an eye witness who was present at the time.
Amaral wasn't there.
In contradicting eye witness testimony and calling the witness a liar you are libelling her.  Do have a care about that!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 09, 2023, 12:27:02 PM
Topic: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
Does anyone think its strange how two little girls go missing ...and Amaral chose the same body in a fridge theory ...?
Reference to the Joana Cipriano and Madeleine McCann cases.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=tktdtq3k9vq3837iaju2on29j6&topic=2898.msg100652#msg100652

There is a lot that Amaral manged to convince himself about and all without a shred of supporting evidence to back his notions up.

The fridge was a bit of a cause celebre thing for a time.  All utter nonsense of course.  But when in the process of ignoring real evidence - such as Brueckner's phone pings - while making a story up as you go along is really just the pits.

By the way - the evidence presented regarding the open window and the raised shutters came from an eye witness who was present at the time.
Amaral wasn't there.
In contradicting eye witness testimony and calling the witness a liar you are libelling her.  Do have a care about that!
 

So why did she close it then.........after all, it was evidence
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 09, 2023, 12:35:37 PM
Topic: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
Does anyone think its strange how two little girls go missing ...and Amaral chose the same body in a fridge theory ...?
Reference to the Joana Cipriano and Madeleine McCann cases.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=tktdtq3k9vq3837iaju2on29j6&topic=2898.msg100652#msg100652

There is a lot that Amaral manged to convince himself about and all without a shred of supporting evidence to back his notions up.

The fridge was a bit of a cause celebre thing for a time.  All utter nonsense of course.  But when in the process of ignoring real evidence - such as Brueckner's phone pings - while making a story up as you go along is really just the pits.

By the way - the evidence presented regarding the open window and the raised shutters came from an eye witness who was present at the time.
Amaral wasn't there.
In contradicting eye witness testimony and calling the witness a liar you are libelling her.  Do have a care about that!

I'm sorry but what is Brueckner's phone data supposed to indicate exactly?
What is it evidence of? That he recieved a half hour phone call? Well, that's not much evidence of anything really is it, other than that someone phoned him really.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 09, 2023, 12:38:39 PM

Was it even Brueckner's phone? Wolters would need to prove in court that the phone belonged to Brueckner, & that won't be happening any time in the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on January 09, 2023, 12:40:53 PM
I'm sorry but what is Brueckner's phone data supposed to indicate exactly?
What is it evidence of? That he recieved a half hour phone call? Well, that's not much evidence of anything really is it, other than that someone phoned him really.

If it could be positively linked to CB, the only thing it would be evidence of would be his presence withing the general environs of PDL before Madeleine went missing  - along with several hundred  other people.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 09, 2023, 12:47:10 PM
If it could be positively linked to CB, the only thing it would be evidence of would be his presence withing the general environs of PDL before Madeleine went missing  - along with several hundred  other people.

...and he did happen to live there, so it's not unreasonable for him to own & use a phone really, I'd have thought. Perhaps.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 09, 2023, 12:51:58 PM
If it could be positively linked to CB, the only thing it would be evidence of would be his presence withing the general environs of PDL before Madeleine went missing  - along with several hundred  other people.

Including the three amigos Grange went after .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on January 09, 2023, 01:04:38 PM
...and he did happen to live there, so it's not unreasonable for him to own & use a phone really, I'd have thought. Perhaps.

I think that could be a stumbling block as he had every right to be there.
 Without a transcript of the conversation, I can't see the existence of a call being of much use.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 09, 2023, 01:11:43 PM
Topic: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
Does anyone think its strange how two little girls go missing ...and Amaral chose the same body in a fridge theory ...?
Reference to the Joana Cipriano and Madeleine McCann cases.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=tktdtq3k9vq3837iaju2on29j6&topic=2898.msg100652#msg100652

There is a lot that Amaral manged to convince himself about and all without a shred of supporting evidence to back his notions up.

The fridge was a bit of a cause celebre thing for a time.  All utter nonsense of course.  But when in the process of ignoring real evidence - such as Brueckner's phone pings - while making a story up as you go along is really just the pits.

By the way - the evidence presented regarding the open window and the raised shutters came from an eye witness who was present at the time.
Amaral wasn't there.
In contradicting eye witness testimony and calling the witness a liar you are libelling her.  Do have a care about that!

I said Amaral wasn't convinced by the tale of the open window and shutters.

Then, at 10pm, Madeleine's mother goes in her turn into the bedroom, she sees the open
window, the raised shutters and the curtains waving in the breeze. This scenario is
highly improbable,
since the shutters cannot be operated from the outside. Normally,
that window is never opened, she says, but she can't say either if it was locked. This
vagueness perhaps serves the interests of the witnesses, but arouses the suspicions of the
investigators.
TOTL page 22

As I was reporting Amaral's conclusions, not mine, I am libelling no-one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 09, 2023, 01:28:53 PM
Topic: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
Does anyone think its strange how two little girls go missing ...and Amaral chose the same body in a fridge theory ...?
Reference to the Joana Cipriano and Madeleine McCann cases.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=tktdtq3k9vq3837iaju2on29j6&topic=2898.msg100652#msg100652

There is a lot that Amaral manged to convince himself about and all without a shred of supporting evidence to back his notions up.

The fridge was a bit of a cause celebre thing for a time.  All utter nonsense of course.  But when in the process of ignoring real evidence - such as Brueckner's phone pings - while making a story up as you go along is really just the pits.

By the way - the evidence presented regarding the open window and the raised shutters came from an eye witness who was present at the time.
Amaral wasn't there.
In contradicting eye witness testimony and calling the witness a liar you are libelling her.  Do have a care about that!

By the way. So what was the point of leaving a window wide open ..looking out of it and leaving it open when twins were still inside?

Then closing it when she had returned from the tapas bar - destroying any evidence or photo graphs being taken
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 09, 2023, 01:52:23 PM
Including the three amigos Grange went after .

The "three amigos" were questioned under caution.  Apparently they were burglars and their phones were active in Luz around the time Madeleine disappeared.

The questions which should present themselves are
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 09, 2023, 01:57:58 PM
I said Amaral wasn't convinced by the tale of the open window and shutters.

Then, at 10pm, Madeleine's mother goes in her turn into the bedroom, she sees the open
window, the raised shutters and the curtains waving in the breeze. This scenario is
highly improbable,
since the shutters cannot be operated from the outside. Normally,
that window is never opened, she says, but she can't say either if it was locked. This
vagueness perhaps serves the interests of the witnesses, but arouses the suspicions of the
investigators.
TOTL page 22

As I was reporting Amaral's conclusions, not mine, I am libelling no-one.

Please allow me to remind you that you are posting on a British based forum where many of Amaral's "conclusions" are libellous.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 09, 2023, 02:14:19 PM
Please allow me to remind you that you are posting on a British based forum where many of Amaral's "conclusions" are libellous.

In your opinion, but not that of the ECHR.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 09, 2023, 02:35:18 PM
In your opinion, but not that of the ECHR.

The thing is though - I can differentiate between what is fact and what is fiction.

Amaral states on national tv and numerous interviews, that at the time of Madeleine's disappearance - Brueckner sported a dreadlock hairstyle.

Which is a lie.

Amaral just cannot help himself from lying.  Even going to the extent of fabricating a photoshop image to back up his lie.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 09, 2023, 02:40:02 PM
The "three amigos" were questioned under caution.  Apparently they were burglars and their phones were active in Luz around the time Madeleine disappeared.

The questions which should present themselves are
  • why did no-one bother to eliminate them from the inquiry in 2007
  • why did it have to wait until Scotland Yard took over the investigation before these men were questioned in 2014
  • apart from these three and Euclides Monteiro  - how many other criminals with known profiles including child abuse owned a phone which activated antennae in Luz on May 3 2007


Why did no-one bother to eliminate them from the inquiry in 2007?

Because there was nothing to actually rule them in. They were nicking wallets & phones, not children.

Why did it have to wait until Scotland Yard took over the investigation before these men were questioned in 2014?

Because there wasn't any point in investigating them anyway. They were burglars, not child abductors.

Apart from these three and Euclides Monteiro  - how many other criminals with known profiles including child abuse owned a phone which activated antennae in Luz on May 3 2007?

I'm not really sure what difference this makes to anything. Receiving a half hour phone call isn't evidence of child abduction I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 09, 2023, 02:43:20 PM
The thing is though - I can differentiate between what is fact and what is fiction.

Amaral states on national tv and numerous interviews, that at the time of Madeleine's disappearance - Brueckner sported a dreadlock hairstyle.

Which is a lie.

Amaral just cannot help himself from lying.  Even going to the extent of fabricating a photoshop image to back up his lie.

Yeah, but he could still be right about the faked abduction though. It's up to Wolters to prove him wrong, & that won't be happening any time soon. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned that before.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 09, 2023, 03:03:56 PM
The "three amigos" were questioned under caution.  Apparently they were burglars and their phones were active in Luz around the time Madeleine disappeared.

The questions which should present themselves are
  • why did no-one bother to eliminate them from the inquiry in 2007
  • why did it have to wait until Scotland Yard took over the investigation before these men were questioned in 2014
  • apart from these three and Euclides Monteiro  - how many other criminals with known profiles including child abuse owned a phone which activated antennae in Luz on May 3 2007

Shock, horror , people who live in Luz use phones in Luz.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: barrier on January 09, 2023, 03:06:50 PM
The "three amigos" were questioned under caution.  Apparently they were burglars and their phones were active in Luz around the time Madeleine disappeared.

The questions which should present themselves are
  • why did no-one bother to eliminate them from the inquiry in 2007
  • why did it have to wait until Scotland Yard took over the investigation before these men were questioned in 2014
  • apart from these three and Euclides Monteiro  - how many other criminals with known profiles including child abuse owned a phone which activated antennae in Luz on May 3 2007

Strangely their paths never crossed what with CB supposedly a prolific burglar .
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 09, 2023, 03:09:13 PM
The thing is though - I can differentiate between what is fact and what is fiction.

Amaral states on national tv and numerous interviews, that at the time of Madeleine's disappearance - Brueckner sported a dreadlock hairstyle.

Which is a lie.

Amaral just cannot help himself from lying.  Even going to the extent of fabricating a photoshop image to back up his lie.

Well then you know that the contents of Amaral's book are not libellous using the standards of the ECHR.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 09, 2023, 03:11:28 PM
The thing is though - I can differentiate between what is fact and what is fiction.

Amaral states on national tv and numerous interviews, that at the time of Madeleine's disappearance - Brueckner sported a dreadlock hairstyle.

Which is a lie.

Amaral just cannot help himself from lying.  Even going to the extent of fabricating a photoshop image to back up his lie.

I'm not so sure of that. You seem quite confident Wolters really has something....
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 09, 2023, 03:26:12 PM
Shock, horror , people who live in Luz use phones in Luz.

The modern concept in everyday police work is to carryout phone data analysis.

The information is to be used for investigative purposes.  Its function is not for it to be ignored.

Use of phone data can assist in solving crime.

Why do you think that is worth belittling? 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 09, 2023, 04:10:49 PM
The modern concept in everyday police work is to carryout phone data analysis.

The information is to be used for investigative purposes.  Its function is not for it to be ignored.

Use of phone data can assist in solving crime.

Why do you think that is worth belittling?

Modern phone data can prove a lot, this is true, including near exact location.
The Phillips C12's that Brueckner & his accomplice were likely using, back in 2007, they weren't equipped with GPS or Google Maps I'm afraid. Only Tetris, Snake & a Calculator.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 09, 2023, 04:32:54 PM
While Amaral was co-ordinator - or as some would have it filing clerk - the police organised a phone dump for all phone traffic covering the relevant period.

If the purpose of that was to ignore it almost entirely until proper professionally trained investigators took over the case six years down the line - it counts as one of the few successes of the botched 2007 Amaral led investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: misty on January 09, 2023, 09:03:48 PM
While Amaral was co-ordinator - or as some would have it filing clerk - the police organised a phone dump for all phone traffic covering the relevant period.

If the purpose of that was to ignore it almost entirely until proper professionally trained investigators took over the case six years down the line - it counts as one of the few successes of the botched 2007 Amaral led investigation.

I would guess PJ only did that phone dump after a suggestion by UK police. It certainly wasn't done in the Cipriano case a few years earlier.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on January 09, 2023, 09:06:11 PM
Modern phone data can prove a lot, this is true, including near exact location.
The Phillips C12's that Brueckner & his accomplice were likely using, back in 2007, they weren't equipped with GPS or Google Maps I'm afraid. Only Tetris, Snake & a Calculator.
Didn’t they use Nokia at the time?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 09, 2023, 09:33:02 PM
Didn’t they use Nokia at the time?

David Payne's friends bought two Samsung PAYG mobiles for him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 10, 2023, 09:53:49 AM
Didn’t they use Nokia at the time?

Maybe, but I wasn't being specific. The point I was making was that phones were still quite primitive & rubbish back in 2007, lucky if you had one with a camera. Even luckier if you had the cash to afford a Blackberry.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 10, 2023, 11:07:34 AM
I would guess PJ only did that phone dump after a suggestion by UK police. It certainly wasn't done in the Cipriano case a few years earlier.

I believe it was done at the behest of the British cops who had gone over as advisors.  In the event I don't think the Policia Judiciaria utilised the information as it was intended.  They concentrated solely on the individuals they had latched onto as their suspects.

The evidence is there in the files.  As is the evidence that known criminals and sometime burglars who had a presence in Luz and the Ocean Club resort were ignored until Scotland Yard took over the investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 10, 2023, 11:12:58 AM
David Payne's friends bought two Samsung PAYG mobiles for him.

Totally suspicious that one, eh!!!  Bringing Portuguese phones into a Portuguese police station to be passed to individuals needing a phone in extraordinary circumstances!

What do you think the significance of your rather cryptic post is?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 10, 2023, 01:50:01 PM
The thing is though - I can differentiate between what is fact and what is fiction.

Amaral states on national tv and numerous interviews, that at the time of Madeleine's disappearance - Brueckner sported a dreadlock hairstyle.

Which is a lie.

Amaral just cannot help himself from lying.  Even going to the extent of fabricating a photoshop image to back up his lie.


The thing is though - I can differentiate between what is fact and what is fiction.


The thing here also though is...... do you know what evidence HCW has?

How do you know everything HCW says - regarding Maddie is the truth?

You obviously must know more than anyone else....to call it fact and not fiction.


Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 10, 2023, 04:05:12 PM

The thing is though - I can differentiate between what is fact and what is fiction.


The thing here also though is...... do you know what evidence HCW has?

How do you know everything HCW says - regarding Maddie is the truth?

You obviously must know more than anyone else....to call it fact and not fiction.

This is not the appropriate thread for discussing the evidence held in Madeleine's case by the BKA.

The thread is for discussing Amaral and his version of events.  The latest being his premature revelation of who the prime suspect was.  Rapidly followed by his ultimately abortive attempts to put false and misleading information regarding Patsy the prime suspect, into the public domain.

Please do make the attempt to stay on topic and avoid deflection.  Particularly as you can see from my post, there is still plenty going on which merits discussion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 10, 2023, 04:19:44 PM
The thing is though - I can differentiate between what is fact and what is fiction.

Amaral states on national tv and numerous interviews, that at the time of Madeleine's disappearance - Brueckner sported a dreadlock hairstyle.

Which is a lie.

Amaral just cannot help himself from lying.  Even going to the extent of fabricating a photoshop image to back up his lie.

You mean this one?  Clearly a photoshopped image but not fabricated.

(https://cdn3.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_26_13_52_40_952457.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 10, 2023, 04:31:21 PM
You mean this one?  Clearly a photoshopped image but not fabricated.

(https://cdn3.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_26_13_52_40_952457.jpg)

The dictionary describes FABRICATED thus ~

invent (something) in order to deceive:
"officers fabricated evidence"
SIMILAR:
forge
falsify
fake
counterfeit
make up
invent
concoct
contrive
think up
dream up
manufacture
trump up

Amaral was credited in at least one of his promotional interviews as having himself used Photoshop to produce the image of Brueckner with dreadlocks.

There is no record of Brueckner wearing his hair in that style.  Not even as a teenager.  Apparently he was wellknown for his neat and tidy appearance - and as we have seen from the video of him shortly before Madeleine's disappearance, a short back and sides hairstyle.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 10, 2023, 05:26:25 PM
The dictionary describes FABRICATED thus ~

invent (something) in order to deceive:
"officers fabricated evidence"
SIMILAR:
forge
falsify
fake
counterfeit
make up
invent
concoct
contrive
think up
dream up
manufacture
trump up

Amaral was credited in at least one of his promotional interviews as having himself used Photoshop to produce the image of Brueckner with dreadlocks.

There is no record of Brueckner wearing his hair in that style.  Not even as a teenager.  Apparently he was wellknown for his neat and tidy appearance - and as we have seen from the video of him shortly before Madeleine's disappearance, a short back and sides hairstyle.

There is no record that he didn't wear his hair in a dreadlock style either and since Amaral had access to most of the information about Bruckner at the time of Maddie's disappearance he was best placed to know what hairstyle the new prime suspect had at that time and not now 15 years on.

I see no reason why Amaral has to fabricate anything. Every court in Portugal and the ECHR has vindicated him.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 10, 2023, 06:37:29 PM
There is no record that he didn't wear his hair in a dreadlock style either and since Amaral had access to most of the information about Bruckner at the time of Maddie's disappearance he was best placed to know what hairstyle the new prime suspect had at that time and not now 15 years on.

I see no reason why Amaral has to fabricate anything. Every court in Portugal and the ECHR has vindicated him.

I don't know if Amaral had information about Brueckner's appearance at any time during his residency in the Algarve and elsewhere.

Nor do I know what information regarding Brueckner if any, Amaral was privy to.  Although I do find it pretty alarming when you post the suggestion that AmaralAccording to a translation supplied by Textusa an interviewer did ask the pertinent question and got short shrift when Amaral's response rather suggests he wasn't really bothered ~

JAC: You know also... anyway, I would like to... that is, what I would like to understand is if he was investigated and if... why did the interest in him disappear, or if he was never taken seriously, with the information that was there at the time?

GA: You know... the, the information there was about paedophiles was only that they were paedophiles and people who were close to the village and as José Alberto said, they are in the hundreds and it is not possible to investigate each one in detail. Going further, I remember that, for example, we reached Albufeira… Albufeira [60Km East of PdL] and Tavira [120 km East of PdL] and so on, and investigations cannot be done that way…

Interesting that.

In the midst of a missing child case a senior investigating officer dismisses investigating paedophiles and years later gives misleading information about a suspect already convicted and serving time for child abuse amongst other offences.

I think that information requires to be given some very serious contemplation indeed.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 10, 2023, 08:35:39 PM
I don't know if Amaral had information about Brueckner's appearance at any time during his residency in the Algarve and elsewhere.

Nor do I know what information regarding Brueckner if any, Amaral was privy to.  Although I do find it pretty alarming when you post the suggestion that Amaral
  • knew about Brueckner at the time of Madeleine's disappearance
  • to the extent of Amaral knowing what Brueckner looked like
  • but did absolutely nothing about conducting a process of investigating known paedophiles for elimination purposes - preferring instead to investigate the mother of the missing child in the midst of a propaganda war fomented by Amaral
According to a translation supplied by Textusa an interviewer did ask the pertinent question and got short shrift when Amaral's response rather suggests he wasn't really bothered ~

JAC: You know also... anyway, I would like to... that is, what I would like to understand is if he was investigated and if... why did the interest in him disappear, or if he was never taken seriously, with the information that was there at the time?

GA: You know... the, the information there was about paedophiles was only that they were paedophiles and people who were close to the village and as José Alberto said, they are in the hundreds and it is not possible to investigate each one in detail. Going further, I remember that, for example, we reached Albufeira… Albufeira [60Km East of PdL] and Tavira [120 km East of PdL] and so on, and investigations cannot be done that way…

Interesting that.

In the midst of a missing child case a senior investigating officer dismisses investigating paedophiles and years later gives misleading information about a suspect already convicted and serving time for child abuse amongst other offences.

I think that information requires to be given some very serious contemplation indeed.

Sigh.   You know there's quite a difference between being a paedophile (having a decades old conviction for child molestation) & being a child abductor. Right?

Were the PJ supposed to be kicking down the doors of everyone who'd ever touched a child, been to prison, served their sentence then never offended again, just on the off chance the might have found their way to the Ocean Club on May 3rd?   

The impression I get here is that the answer would be 'YES', & as Amaral explains, investigations can't be conducted that way.

Probable cause is needed.

But no, of course, Brueckner touched a couple of girls in his native Germany ten years prior, so obviously the police should have been tracking him down & kneeling on his neck the very moment Maddie disappeared. Even though there was absolutely nothing to suggest that he in particular, could be responsible for her disappearance.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 10, 2023, 08:43:47 PM

"did absolutely nothing about conducting a process of investigating known paedophiles for elimination purposes"

You're the PJ.

You go to a known sex offenders house, (even though there's absolutely nothing to suggest he in particular abducted Maddie) you knock on his door, he exercises his right to remain silent & won't let officers search his home.

You can't force the man to talk, & can't search his home without a warrant.

What's your next move?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 10, 2023, 08:53:09 PM
You mean this one?  Clearly a photoshopped image but not fabricated.

(https://cdn3.cmjornal.pt/images/2020-06/img_900x509$2020_06_26_13_52_40_952457.jpg)

Do you know, in some of his photos he's not the worst looking guy in the world.
He'd probably wear a nice tan in that Algarve sun every summer.
Tall, blonde, tanned & handsome.
Can see why the ladies liked him.  8**8:/:
(Well, some of them anyway. Not the ones he was raping obviously)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 10, 2023, 09:40:54 PM
Sigh.   You know there's quite a difference between being a paedophile (having a decades old conviction for child molestation) & being a child abductor. Right?

Were the PJ supposed to be kicking down the doors of everyone who'd ever touched a child, been to prison, served their sentence then never offended again, just on the off chance the might have found their way to the Ocean Club on May 3rd?   

The impression I get here is that the answer would be 'YES', & as Amaral explains, investigations can't be conducted that way.

Probable cause is needed.

But no, of course, Brueckner touched a couple of girls in his native Germany ten years prior, so obviously the police should have been tracking him down & kneeling on his neck the very moment Maddie disappeared. Even though there was absolutely nothing to suggest that he in particular, could be responsible for her disappearance.

Ah but now we know someone phoned him on 3rd. If Amaral had done his job he would have noticed that phone call, identified who the phone belonged to and pounced! On the other hand, I think even the marvellous Met might have missed that too.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 10, 2023, 09:52:47 PM
Ah but now we know someone phoned him on 3rd. If Amaral had done his job he would have noticed that phone call, identified who the phone belonged to and pounced! On the other hand, I think even the marvellous Met might have missed that too.

If there had been a flurry of phone activity, between two or more mobiles, around 8pm (when the McCanns were getting ready to leave for the tapas) & 10pm, that could raise eyebrows & require closer attention, perhaps. But one half hour phone call between 7:30pm & 8pm doesn't exactly leap of the page & scream 'child abductor' does it?! If you're honest & objective about the matter.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 10, 2023, 10:07:45 PM
Ah but now we know someone phoned him on 3rd. If Amaral had done his job he would have noticed that phone call, identified who the phone belonged to and pounced! On the other hand, I think even the marvellous Met might have missed that too.

The "marvellous Met" did spot anomalies in the phone analysis when they took Madeleine's case on.

Don't tell me that is something else you don't know!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 10, 2023, 10:10:32 PM
The "marvellous Met" did spot anomalies in the phone analysis when they took Madeleine's case on.

Don't tell me that is something else you don't know!

...and all they found were a couple of petty thieves who had absolutely no connection at all to Madeleine's disappearance. imo
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 10, 2023, 10:26:23 PM
...and all they found were a couple of petty thieves who had absolutely no connection at all to Madeleine's disappearance. imo


No....Brietta, not IMO.

The burglars have long since been ruled out.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 10, 2023, 10:29:10 PM

Everyone is still a potential suspect in Brietta's world,  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on January 11, 2023, 03:03:41 AM
There is no record that he didn't wear his hair in a dreadlock style either and since Amaral had access to most of the information about Bruckner at the time of Maddie's disappearance he was best placed to know what hairstyle the new prime suspect had at that time and not now 15 years on.

I see no reason why Amaral has to fabricate anything. Every court in Portugal and the ECHR has vindicated him.


Do you have any comprehension of how long it would take for his hair to gow that long Angelo?

I have just grown mine and imo it would take well over a year.



It didn't happen in a couple of months or so.   Various websites give various growth rates and aparantly it depends upon a number of factors.   But the overal impression given is that it is a slow job, not a fast one.   

Given that we have the video showing him shortly before Madeleines abduction picturing him with short hair, he can't possibly have had long hair on May 3rd, 2007.

As usual, Brietta is right.

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2023, 10:01:30 AM

Do you have any comprehension of how long it would take for his hair to gow that long Angelo?

I have just grown mine and imo it would take well over a year.



It didn't happen in a couple of months or so.   Various websites give various growth rates and aparantly it depends upon a number of factors.   But the overal impression given is that it is a slow job, not a fast one.   

Given that we have the video showing him shortly before Madeleines abduction picturing him with short hair, he can't possibly have had long hair on May 3rd, 2007.

As usual, Brietta is right.

Dreadlocks can be attached to short hair in a few hours.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2023, 10:13:00 AM
Just in case anyone is unaware, the attacks on Amaral began in 2009, with efforts to use an injunction to stop him from airing his opinions on the Madeleine McCann disappearance. They continued unabated until the decision by the ECHR in September 2022 that he was always entitled to give his opinions. Thirteen years of effort and goodness knows how much in legal fees and costs wasted imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 11, 2023, 10:31:37 AM
Just in case anyone is unaware, the attacks on Amaral began in 2009, with efforts to use an injunction to stop him from airing his opinions on the Madeleine McCann disappearance. They continued unabated until the decision by the ECHR in September 2022 that he was always entitled to give his opinions. Thirteen years of effort and goodness knows how much in legal fees and costs wasted imo.

Hmmm ... is that your definition of "the attacks on Amaral".

I would think you've actually got that entirely arse for elbow unless you think it unreasonable to defend oneself from the lie that one has killed one's child and secreted her body in a place never to be found.

Then you do, don't you.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2023, 10:50:47 AM
Hmmm ... is that your definition of "the attacks on Amaral".

I would think you've actually got that entirely arse for elbow unless you think it unreasonable to defend oneself from the lie that one has killed one's child and secreted her body in a place never to be found.

Then you do, don't you.

When and where did Amaral accuse the McCanns of killing their child? Not in his much maligned and misquoted book;

The conclusions my team and I have arrived at are the following:
1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila
da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;
2. There was simulation of abduction.
3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their
daughter's body.
4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;
TOTL final page.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 11, 2023, 11:28:53 AM
Dreadlocks can be attached to short hair in a few hours.

What?  Have you gone completely loopy?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 11, 2023, 12:15:38 PM
When and where did Amaral accuse the McCanns of killing their child? Not in his much maligned and misquoted book;

The conclusions my team and I have arrived at are the following:
1. The minor, Madeleine McCann died inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club in Vila
da Luz, on the night of May 3rd 2007;
2. There was simulation of abduction.
3. Kate Healy and Gerald McCann were probably involved in the concealment of their
daughter's body.
4. The death may have occurred as a result of a tragic accident;
TOTL final page.

You claim to hold no brief for Amaral  but you insist on playing word games on his behalf.

There is no evidence supporting anything Amaral lays claim to in his book.

For example there is no evidence for the claim that Madeleine died in the apartment.  Just as there was no evidence that Joana Cipriano was fed to the pigs by her mother.  In fact - no evidence for the death of either child.

The only evidence for lying was proven in a Portuguese court and the liar was and is Amaral.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 11, 2023, 12:32:42 PM
You claim to hold no brief for Amaral  but you insist on playing word games on his behalf.

There is no evidence supporting anything Amaral lays claim to in his book.

For example there is no evidence for the claim that Madeleine died in the apartment.  Just as there was no evidence that Joana Cipriano was fed to the pigs by her mother.  In fact - no evidence for the death of either child.

The only evidence for lying was proven in a Portuguese court and the liar was and is Amaral.


There doesn't seem to be much evidence of anything in this case.

You keep calling GA  a liar but it seems it hasn't affected his credibility...has it.

The book has been challenged several times and won.

It was wrote from the case files after all.

 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 11, 2023, 12:52:21 PM

There doesn't seem to be much evidence of anything in this case.

You keep calling GA  a liar but it seems it hasn't affected his credibility...has it.

The book has been challenged several times and won.

It was wrote from the case files after all.

I'm not sure about Amaral's recent excursions onto the wavelengths not having an effect on whatever credibility he may still have had in Portugal.

Nor am I too sure that relying on case files written by the co-ordinator of the investigation (plus the Portuguese press) for the provenance of a book written by the co-ordinator quite hits an appropriate note.

Amaral seems to have given up his ubiquitous public appearances since his dreadlock debacle.  Unless you know different.  When did he last appear on the interview sofa?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 11, 2023, 01:04:35 PM
I'm not sure about Amaral's recent excursions onto the wavelengths not having an effect on whatever credibility he may still have had in Portugal.

Nor am I too sure that relying on case files written by the co-ordinator of the investigation (plus the Portuguese press) for the provenance of a book written by the co-ordinator quite hits an appropriate note.

Amaral seems to have given up his ubiquitous public appearances since his dreadlock debacle.  Unless you know different.  When did he last appear on the interview sofa?

Well everything is at a bit of a standstill at the moment..........isn't it
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 11, 2023, 01:25:42 PM
Well everything is at a bit of a standstill at the moment..........isn't it

No - it is not!

Amaral started the present turn of events when he gave his 2019 interview on Saunokonoko's podcast.

He interfered yet again when he followed up with publishing misleading information about the German investigation;  all of which from dreadlocks to cartoons on the camper van were roundly refuted by Brueckner and van's appearance in a video made shortly prior to Madeleine's disappearance.

Think about the significance of that.

Amaral makes the news when there is none.  It is the one thing for which he can be relied.  He hasn't closed his mouth on Madeleine's case and impugning her parents for over fifteen years.

Why do you think he would stop doing that now?  When things are not at a "standstill" as you say - but in the midst of a very active investigation indeed!
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 11, 2023, 01:58:12 PM
No - it is not!

Amaral started the present turn of events when he gave his 2019 interview on Saunokonoko's podcast.

He interfered yet again when he followed up with publishing misleading information about the German investigation;  all of which from dreadlocks to cartoons on the camper van were roundly refuted by Brueckner and van's appearance in a video made shortly prior to Madeleine's disappearance.

Think about the significance of that.

Amaral makes the news when there is none.  It is the one thing for which he can be relied.  He hasn't closed his mouth on Madeleine's case and impugning her parents for over fifteen years.

Why do you think he would stop doing that now?  When things are not at a "standstill" as you say - but in the midst of a very active investigation indeed!

Think about the significance of that.


Well, the significance of that is it only seems to be a problem with you or one or two. on here.

No one else seems interested or sees it as a problem.


midst of a very active investigation indeed!

Do you mean the one where they might, they could, it might happen this year?

The investigation they have had concrete evidence for nearly three years...........ye right


 
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2023, 02:06:13 PM
You claim to hold no brief for Amaral  but you insist on playing word games on his behalf.

There is no evidence supporting anything Amaral lays claim to in his book.

For example there is no evidence for the claim that Madeleine died in the apartment.  Just as there was no evidence that Joana Cipriano was fed to the pigs by her mother.  In fact - no evidence for the death of either child.

The only evidence for lying was proven in a Portuguese court and the liar was and is Amaral.

When and where did Amaral utter 'the lie that one has killed one's child'?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 11, 2023, 03:45:35 PM
When and where did Amaral utter 'the lie that one has killed one's child'?

Your contention that over fifteen years worth of accusations that Madeleine's parents were responsible for her death and concealment of her corpse isn't one of the greatest lies ever told.

What exactly do you think he is saying?  And what do you think his proof for saying it is?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 11, 2023, 04:19:05 PM
Your contention that over fifteen years worth of accusations that Madeleine's parents were responsible for her death and concealment of her corpse isn't one of the greatest lies ever told.

What exactly do you think he is saying?  And what do you think his proof for saying it is?



 Obviously, the whole purpose of this book was written to explain one perspective on the case from a first-hand account











Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2023, 06:31:38 PM
Your contention that over fifteen years worth of accusations that Madeleine's parents were responsible for her death and concealment of her corpse isn't one of the greatest lies ever told.

What exactly do you think he is saying?  And what do you think his proof for saying it is?

He gave his opinion about what happened, just as the McCanns did. Opinions don't need to be proved.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on January 11, 2023, 07:48:58 PM


 Obviously, the whole purpose of this book was written to explain one perspective on the case from a first-hand account

A malicious account, imo.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Anthro on January 11, 2023, 07:53:09 PM
He gave his opinion about what happened, just as the McCanns did. Opinions don't need to be proved.
Difference is that his opinion was subjective and not objective. The McCanns know their daughter and could predict back then, how she would react and behave.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 11, 2023, 08:54:01 PM
"did absolutely nothing about conducting a process of investigating known paedophiles for elimination purposes"

You're the PJ.

You go to a known sex offenders house, (even though there's absolutely nothing to suggest he in particular abducted Maddie) you knock on his door, he exercises his right to remain silent & won't let officers search his home.

You can't force the man to talk, & can't search his home without a warrant.

What's your next move?

Never got an answer for this one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 11, 2023, 08:56:54 PM
Difference is that his opinion was subjective and not objective. The McCanns know their daughter and could predict back then, how she would react and behave.

This presumes the McCanns complete honesty. Not very objective at all really is it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 11, 2023, 09:06:34 PM
Difference is that his opinion was subjective and not objective. The McCanns know their daughter and could predict back then, how she would react and behave.

You may prefer to give more credence to the McCann's opinions than to Amaral's, but remember you are just offering another opinion.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 11, 2023, 11:54:34 PM
You may prefer to give more credence to the McCann's opinions than to Amaral's, but remember you are just offering another opinion.
Kate and Gerald McCann respond to Goncalo Amaral, 28 February 2012
Jornal da Regiao - Oeiras
Goncalo Amaral was in deep financial trouble and had lived way beyond his means for years.  Is this acceptable circumstances for a high ranking police officer to wallow in.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 12:04:46 AM
Kate and Gerald McCann respond to Goncalo Amaral, 28 February 2012
Jornal da Regiao - Oeiras
  • It is not an opinion that Amaral is a liar - the fact is that Amaral is a convicted perjurer
  • It is not an opinion that Amaral is a fraudster - the fact is he was found guilty of trying to defraud his brother in a property deal while blaming the McCanns for his financial predicament.
    Just sheer nonsense in line with much else of his utterances.  He never needed anyone to make a mess of his financial situation - he was always perfectly capable of doing that for himself.
    Snip
    With regards to the villa that Goncalo Amaral had in Urbanizacao Cerro Azul, in Quelfes, there aren't any losses to the referred interviewee that are to be attributable to the parents of Madeleine McCann.
    In fact, in 2009, there were several mortgages pending on this house as well as a registered asset freezing originating from a lawsuit brought by a brother of Goncalo Amaral against him and his wife, for, demonstrably, as stated in the sentence pronounced by the 2nd Civil Court of Family and Minors Court of the District of Seixal, having sold a house to a third party, after having received the amount they should receive for it, from the mentioned brother, who had helped them pay previous debts.
    The parents of Madeleine McCann got to know about such action after their intervention in this was raised by the enforcement agent in charge, a person who also seems to have some important information about what is explained above.
    About this house there were pending asset freezings originated by the tax authorities, as the interviewee in question, despite being a civil servant, had tax problems, long before the publication of the book and of the documentary.
    Currently this house is owned by Banco Espirito Santo, one of the creditors, with visible credit problems with the referred interviewee, long before the publication of the book, and, therefore, the actions brought by the respondents. http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id408.htm
Goncalo Amaral was in deep financial trouble and had lived way beyond his means for years. Is this acceptable circumstances for a high ranking police officer to wallow in.

Can you explain why it isn't? Life is tough, some people accumulate debt & suffer financial misfortune. It happens. I don't think it would affect Amaral's ability to smell a rat if there was one though.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 12:26:10 AM
Can you explain why it isn't? Life is tough, some people accumulate debt & suffer financial misfortune. It happens. I don't think it would affect Amaral's ability to smell a rat if there was one though.

There is always a problem when a high ranking police officer is in the level of debt Amaral was in.  It leaves them open to corruption and the big bosses don't like that at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 12, 2023, 04:11:48 AM
There is always a problem when a high ranking police officer is in the level of debt Amaral was in.  It leaves them open to corruption and the big bosses don't like that at all.

Both of the Offences and other problems mentioned in your comment above occurred long before The McCanns ever went to Portugal.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 12, 2023, 09:51:11 AM
Can you explain why it isn't? Life is tough, some people accumulate debt & suffer financial misfortune. It happens. I don't think it would affect Amaral's ability to smell a rat if there was one though.

The McCanns and their lawyer didn't just issue injunctions and sue Amaral in their quest to shut him up. They also released information to the press about his private life hoping to discredit him.

As you say, though, that had no bearing on his professional abilities at all.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 12, 2023, 10:49:38 AM
The McCanns and their lawyer didn't just issue injunctions and sue Amaral in their quest to shut him up. They also released information to the press about his private life hoping to discredit him.

As you say, though, that had no bearing on his professional abilities at all.

Amaral didn't have a private life.  Details of his misdemeanours and criminal offences were plastered all over The Portuguese Press, including a phone call to one of his ex girl friends wherein he threatened to abduct her small daughter.  We all heard that one.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: jassi on January 12, 2023, 11:24:16 AM
Was this information released before or after he came to prominence in the McCann case ?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 12, 2023, 11:44:12 AM
Was this information released before or after he came to prominence in the McCann case ?

I can't remember precisely.  Does it matter?  Amaral did and said these things.  And they are all documented.  And while he was a PJ Officer, up to his neck in debt.

You could Google, Amaral and the golden bullet with which he threatened his ex girl friend, while he was married to the lovely Sofia. but you probably wouldn't want to do that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 12, 2023, 12:20:03 PM
Was this information released before or after he came to prominence in the McCann case ?

It was released in 2012 by Kate and Gerry McCann.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 12, 2023, 12:26:47 PM
It was released in 2012 by Kate and Gerry McCann.

Does this make a difference to the dreadful things done by Amaral?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 01:35:42 PM
It was released in 2012 by Kate and Gerry McCann.

That's interesting. They released information about Amaral, but didn't release the e-fits of the abductor.
Speaks volumes really doesn't it.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 12, 2023, 01:44:44 PM
Does this make a difference to the dreadful things done by Amaral?

Releasing information about Amaral's private life gained during their efforts to silence him using an (eventually unsuccesful) injunction was just another example of the attacks he was subjected to.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 12, 2023, 01:49:40 PM
There is always a problem when a high ranking police officer is in the level of debt Amaral was in.  It leaves them open to corruption and the big bosses don't like that at all.

No, same as people who gave to the fund ....didn't expect to be paying their mortgage etc etc.

Did anyone ever find out what financial debt the mccs was in.

Madeleine fund used to pay Gonçalo Amaral lawsuit
The parents of Madeleine McCann used funds raised to look for their daughter to pay court costs for the lawsuit they filed against Gonçalo Amaral, a former PJ inspector who was in charge of the case.



Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 12, 2023, 01:57:19 PM
Kate and Gerald McCann respond to Goncalo Amaral, 28 February 2012
Jornal da Regiao - Oeiras
  • It is not an opinion that Amaral is a liar - the fact is that Amaral is a convicted perjurer
  • It is not an opinion that Amaral is a fraudster - the fact is he was found guilty of trying to defraud his brother in a property deal while blaming the McCanns for his financial predicament.
    Just sheer nonsense in line with much else of his utterances.  He never needed anyone to make a mess of his financial situation - he was always perfectly capable of doing that for himself.
    Snip
    With regards to the villa that Goncalo Amaral had in Urbanizacao Cerro Azul, in Quelfes, there aren't any losses to the referred interviewee that are to be attributable to the parents of Madeleine McCann.
    In fact, in 2009, there were several mortgages pending on this house as well as a registered asset freezing originating from a lawsuit brought by a brother of Goncalo Amaral against him and his wife, for, demonstrably, as stated in the sentence pronounced by the 2nd Civil Court of Family and Minors Court of the District of Seixal, having sold a house to a third party, after having received the amount they should receive for it, from the mentioned brother, who had helped them pay previous debts.
    The parents of Madeleine McCann got to know about such action after their intervention in this was raised by the enforcement agent in charge, a person who also seems to have some important information about what is explained above.
    About this house there were pending asset freezings originated by the tax authorities, as the interviewee in question, despite being a civil servant, had tax problems, long before the publication of the book and of the documentary.
    Currently this house is owned by Banco Espirito Santo, one of the creditors, with visible credit problems with the referred interviewee, long before the publication of the book, and, therefore, the actions brought by the respondents. http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id408.htm
Goncalo Amaral was in deep financial trouble and had lived way beyond his means for years.  Is this acceptable circumstances for a high ranking police officer to wallow in.

Do you reckon then he is the only skint cop ...or if they are.... they are incapable of doing their job

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 12, 2023, 01:58:20 PM
Releasing information about Amaral's private life gained during their efforts to silence him using an (eventually unsuccesful) injunction was just another example of the attacks he was subjected to.

What is Private about Court Cases in Portugal, of which Amaral was Convicted?  He remains a Convicted Liar and a Convicted Thief.

These Court Cases were held in Public and anyone has a right to comment on this.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 02:26:49 PM
Both of the Offences and other problems mentioned in your comment above occurred long before The McCanns ever went to Portugal.

He has always lived way above his means, neglecting even to pay his legitimate tax burden and everyone knows the tax man always catches up sooner or later as he did in this case.  So what does he do when eventually he gets his hands on a bob or two - appears in public with a diamond flashing from his earlobe.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 02:32:55 PM
The McCanns and their lawyer didn't just issue injunctions and sue Amaral in their quest to shut him up. They also released information to the press about his private life hoping to discredit him.

As you say, though, that had no bearing on his professional abilities at all.

His propaganda was interfering with the search for Madeleine.  Nobody else was looking for Madeleine with the exception of her parents whose campaign on her behalf was being adversely affected by Amaral's propaganda war of malice and negativity.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 02:36:11 PM
That's interesting. They released information about Amaral, but didn't release the e-fits of the abductor.
Speaks volumes really doesn't it.

No it speaks LIBEL along with an award for damages and a front page apology.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 02:45:10 PM
Releasing information about Amaral's private life gained during their efforts to silence him using an (eventually unsuccesful) injunction was just another example of the attacks he was subjected to.

Initially the injunction was successful.  Amaral did rather well in the appeal courts did he not.

By the way - forget ye not that Amaral also used the libel courts to silence individuals and have them committed to an insane asylum to boot.

The alleged crime?

Defending the accused in a court trial.  What was all that about freedom of speech et al?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 02:48:34 PM
No, same as people who gave to the fund ....didn't expect to be paying their mortgage etc etc.

Did anyone ever find out what financial debt the mccs was in.

Madeleine fund used to pay Gonçalo Amaral lawsuit
The parents of Madeleine McCann used funds raised to look for their daughter to pay court costs for the lawsuit they filed against Gonçalo Amaral, a former PJ inspector who was in charge of the case.


Wonder where the money came from for his sparkling diamond earing and the expensive vehicle he parked round the corner during his libel trial.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 03:07:44 PM
Do you reckon then he is the only skint cop ...or if they are.... they are incapable of doing their job

One ex cop that I know of used a rather illegal method of bolstering his funds which even the Portuguese authorities deplored.

Cops are mixing with criminals as a result of the job.  Skint cops lay themselves open to corruption by criminals as Amaral's pal Cristovao did and which is why it is frowned upon when a cop is as impecunious as Amaral.

Former detective who criticised Madeleine McCann’s parents jailed for organised crime
Sam Corbishley
Saturday 7 Dec 2019
A former Portuguese detective who starred in the recent Netflix documentary about the Madeleine McCann case has been jailed for seven and a half years for helping plan two violent burglaries.

Paulo Pereira Cristovao, 51, is a long-time critic of Maddie’s parents who angered them with a controversial book about the mystery disappearance.

He was convicted over his role in the raids at properties in Lisbon and the nearby resort of Cascais.

State prosecutors accused him of being a key player in an organised crime gang, supplying them with information about victims and the homes to be targeted.

The ex-cop, who left the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) following a torture trial which also implicated the ex-chief investigator on the Maddie case Goncalo Amaral, will remain a free man pending an appeal.

It emerged Pereira Cristovao was facing trial in March when he played a prominent role in the documentary ‘The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann’.

He admitted involvement at a court in Cascais before it started.

But he denied prosecution claims he was a ringleader in the gang and insisted after the guilty verdict on Friday that he had been convicted of crimes, such as kidnapping, which he had not committed.

His defence lawyer told the court he had returned the £8,500 commission he was paid for one of the raids to a victim.

All but one of the 17 defendants were convicted over the 2014 raids, led by police officers with false search warrants who used the illegal operations to steal cash and other valuables.

In one, a couple and their daughter were kidnapped and the culprits took more than £100,000.

Two police officers, both sacked before the trial, were jailed for 17 and 16 years respectively.

Prosecutors alleged that the ringleader Nuno Mendes, nicknamed Mustafa, received instructions from Pereira Cristovao and passed them on to a relative who then got the rogue police officers to carry out the bogus raids.

Pereira Cristovao has been a constant critic of Kate and Gerry McCann and called for them to be arrested for leaving their children alone in their Algarve holiday apartment after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007.

He claimed in a 2008 book called The Star of Madeleine that the toddler was dead and her body had been dumped at sea.

The couple’s spokesman Clarence Mitchell called his comments ‘hurtful and distressing’ and accused him of trying to profit from the McCanns’ misfortune.
https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/07/former-detective-criticised-madeleine-mccanns-parents-jailed-organised-crime-11407968/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 12, 2023, 04:42:01 PM
Wonder where the money came from for his sparkling diamond earing and the expensive vehicle he parked round the corner during his libel trial.

Wonder where the money came from for his sparkling diamond earing


Maybe from donations.

Like when  CM said put money in envelopes address it to mcs  Rothley it will get there.

But as it happens Sofia bought him it,
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 05:20:24 PM
Wonder where the money came from for his sparkling diamond earing


Maybe from donations.

Like when  CM said put money in envelopes address it to mcs  Rothley it will get there.

But as it happens Sofia bought him it,

His friends were making appeals for his "fighting fund" right from the word go.  And of course his "expertise" as a pundit in Madeleine's case was a priceless asset.
Of course he did make provision to ensure that his assets were out of the reach of his many creditors.
"About the "Jaguar" vehicle with licence plate 28-FB-58, which at the date of the process was owned by the single-name society mentioned, was, on January 21, 2010 sold to a third party and on whose name it is currently registered, so that neither the parents of Madeleine McCann nor any of the several other creditors had the possibility to use it to cover the various debts incurred by the referred, repeating, long before the book's publication." Textusa
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 05:43:13 PM
No it speaks LIBEL along with an award for damages and a front page apology.

The McCanns didn't release the e-fits. That isn't libelous, it's a fact.
The e-fits were never made public by the McCanns. Now kindly remove the unwarranted warning you gave me.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: kizzy on January 12, 2023, 05:50:52 PM
No it speaks LIBEL along with an award for damages and a front page apology.

Who for YOU
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 05:55:51 PM

Who for YOU

Brietta has confused handing the e-fits to the police, with not releasing them to the public.

The Sunday Times were forced to apologise because they implied the e-fits hadn't been handed to police.

I never suggested any such thing. It's quite correct to say the McCanns didn't release the e-fits to the public, because they didn't.

Brietta jumped the gun & has issued me warning points for no good reason.

Let's see how long it takes her to remove them again.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 06:01:44 PM
Who for YOU

In articles dated October 27 ("Madeleine clues hidden for 5 years" and "Investigators had E-Fits five years ago", News) we referred to efits which were included in a report prepared by private investigators for the McCanns and the Fund in 2008. We accept that the articles may have been understood to suggest that the McCanns had withheld information from the authorities. This was not the case. We now understand and accept  ...  We apologise for the distress caused."
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sunday-times-sued-mccanns-over-story-which-wrongly-claimed-evidence-was-withheld-police/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 06:06:21 PM
In articles dated October 27 ("Madeleine clues hidden for 5 years" and "Investigators had E-Fits five years ago", News) we referred to efits which were included in a report prepared by private investigators for the McCanns and the Fund in 2008. We accept that the articles may have been understood to suggest that the McCanns had withheld information from the authorities. This was not the case. We now understand and accept  ...  We apologise for the distress caused."
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sunday-times-sued-mccanns-over-story-which-wrongly-claimed-evidence-was-withheld-police/

There you have it.

Now, I didn't say anything about them 'not being released to authorities'. I was saying they didn't release them to the public, which is completely true.

You can remove that 10 points you gave me now, thanks.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 06:09:06 PM


Oh I see, I got another 5 points for explaining myself.

I still never said anything libellous though.

The McCanns didn't make the e-fits public. They weren't in Kate's book, or on their website.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 12, 2023, 06:12:00 PM
The McCanns didn't release the e-fits. That isn't libelous, it's a fact.
The e-fits were never made public by the McCanns. Now kindly remove the unwarranted warning you gave me.

Totally correct. They delayed handing them over but then they did look like Gerry so could you blame them.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 06:14:15 PM
There you have it.

Now, I didn't say anything about them 'not being released to authorities'. I was saying they didn't release them to the public, which is completely true.

You can remove that 10 points you gave me now, thanks.

Kate and Gerry McCann secure £55,000 in libel damages and apology from the Sunday Times
The Sunday Times has published a full apology and agreed to pay Kate and Gerry McCann £55,000 in libel damages (all of which they will donate to charity), over completely false allegations that they had kept secret from the investigating authorities crucial evidence relating to their daughter’s abduction. The Sunday Times also agreed to pay the McCanns’ legal fees.
https://www.carter-ruck.com/news/kate-and-gerry-mccann-secure-55000-in-libel-damages-and-apology-from-the-sunday-times/
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 06:16:11 PM
Totally correct. They delayed handing them over but then they did look like Gerry.

Well, they gave the e-fits to the police at some point. But those e-fits had been handed to the McCanns in 2008, they were then kept hidden from the public until 2012.  They didn't feature in either Kate's book, or on their website.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 06:18:49 PM
Kate and Gerry McCann secure £55,000 in libel damages and apology from the Sunday Times
The Sunday Times has published a full apology and agreed to pay Kate and Gerry McCann £55,000 in libel damages (all of which they will donate to charity), over completely false allegations that they had kept secret from the investigating authorities crucial evidence relating to their daughter’s abduction. The Sunday Times also agreed to pay the McCanns’ legal fees.
https://www.carter-ruck.com/news/kate-and-gerry-mccann-secure-55000-in-libel-damages-and-apology-from-the-sunday-times/

Spot the difference.

I never said anything about the McCanns keeping them secret from authorities.
I was saying they kept them secret from the public, which is completely true.
So, that's 15 unwarranted warning points you gave me, that you should have the good grace to remove now, thankyou.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 12, 2023, 06:19:33 PM
The Times retraction and apology.

(https://i.imgur.com/tF3qydb.png?2)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 12, 2023, 06:23:29 PM
Well, they gave the e-fits to the police at some point. But those e-fits had been handed to the McCanns in 2008, they were then kept hidden from the public until 2012.  They didn't feature in either Kate's book, or on their website.

The E-fits in question.

(https://shininginluz.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/smithman-e-fits.jpg)
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 06:23:39 PM
There you have it.

Now, I didn't say anything about them 'not being released to authorities'. I was saying they didn't release them to the public, which is completely true.

You can remove that 10 points you gave me now, thanks.

Date 3 October 2014
Carter-Ruck
Sunday Times apologises and agrees to pay Kate and Gerry McCann £55,000 in libel damages

The Sunday Times has agreed to pay Kate and Gerry McCann £55,000 in libel damages (all of which they will donate to two charities - Missing People and the Joe Humphries Memorial Trust)

Mr and Mrs McCann's complaint related to an article by the Sunday Times' "Insight" team published on the front page of the newspaper in October 2013. The article alleged that Mr and Mrs McCann and Madeleine's Fund had kept secret from the investigating authorities crucial evidence (primarily consisting of "e-fits" obtained by private investigators) relating to their daughter's abduction.

The Sunday Times' allegations were completely false. As the newspaper now accepts, there is no question of the McCanns having sought to suppress any evidence; indeed all of the material collated by the private investigators had been provided to the relevant Portuguese and Leicestershire police four years earlier. The private investigators' report (including the e-fits) was also provided to the Metropolitan Police in 2011 shortly after the Met commenced its review into Madeleine's disappearance.

The Sunday Times has also agreed to pay the McCanns' legal costs of bringing the complaint.

The McCanns have today issued a statement commenting on this case, a copy of which is attached.
For further information please contact Adam Tudor at adam.tudor@carterruck.com or Zoe Brocket at zoe.bro

https://www.carter-ruck.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/McCann-Press_Release-03102014.pdf
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 06:25:49 PM
The Times retraction and apology.

(https://i.imgur.com/tF3qydb.png?2)

"We accept that the articles may have been understood to suggest that the McCanns had withheld information from authorities"

I never mentioned anything about them doing that....

So, that's 15 warning points need removing from my name, & maybe Brietta should brush up on her comprehension skills.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 06:30:39 PM

Oh I see, I got another 5 points for explaining myself.

I still never said anything libellous though.

The McCanns didn't make the e-fits public. They weren't in Kate's book, or on their website.

3 October 2014
Kate and Gerry McCann hit out at "same old press
abuse" by newspapers

https://www.carter-ruck.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/McCann-Press_Release-03102014.pdf
The couple receive £55,000 in libel damages from
Sunday Times
Kate and Gerry McCann today hit out at the continued failure of the UK newspaper
industry to put their house in order after the Sunday Times agreed to pay £55,000 in
libel damages (all of which they will donate to charity) for allegations made at a time
when the Sunday Times was proclaiming that press abuse was at an end and there
was no need for the independent regulation proposed by Leveson a year previously.
The McCanns were libelled in a front-page article by the Sunday Times' "Insight"
team in October 2013.
Gerry McCann pointed out that the newspaper's behaviour typified all that was wrong
with journalistic practices.
• the Sunday Times team did not provide the McCanns with any proper
opportunity to comment on these appalling allegations before they were
published. They withheld important aspects of the allegations they were
intending to make and chose not to publish key parts of the McCanns'
response. Above all, the Sunday Times was on express notice that the
allegations were false, yet they still went ahead and published them.
• Initially, the McCanns sought to resolve the complaint amicably by writing to
the Editor direct. However, the half-baked, inadequate response they
received meant that they were left with no choice but to instruct their lawyers,
Carter-Ruck
• Faced with the grotesque and utterly false suggestion that they had, in effect,
deliberately hindered the search for their daughter and thereby let the trail go
cold, Mr and Mrs McCann had no alternative but to bring a libel complaint in
order to correct falsehoods which could only serve to damage the search for
their daughter
• Eventually, two months later, the Sunday Times acknowledged that its article
had been completely false and published a full retraction and apology. But
even then the apology was tucked away on an inside page. The newspaper
even refused to include the word "apology" in its headline.
• It then took a further 9 months, and the issuing of Court proceedings by the
McCanns, to require the Sunday Times to make sensible proposals to
compensate them and to allow them to make that fact public. Every penny of
the damages will be going to charity and the Sunday Times will also be
paying the McCanns' legal fees.
1
McCann/Sunday Times - Press Release - 3.10.2014
1652465_1

Speaking today, Mr and Mrs McCann said
"The Sunday Times has behaved disgracefully. There is no sign of any "postLeveson improvement" in the behaviour of newspapers like this.
"Despite the history of admitted libels in respect of my family by so many
newspapers, the Sunday Times still felt able to print an indefensible front page story
last year and then force us to instruct lawyers - and even to start Court proceedings -
before it behaved reasonably. But the damage to reputation and to feelings has been
done and the Sunday Times can sit back enjoy its sales boost based on lies and
abuse"
"This is exactly why Parliament and Lord Justice Leveson called for truly effective
independent self-regulation of newspapers - to protect ordinary members of the
public from this sort of abuse."
"It is also why the provision of low-cost arbitration for libel and privacy claims is so
important. We were able to use our lawyers, Carter-Ruck, who were willing to back
our complaint and who agreed to act on a "no win, no fee" basis - but even that form
of access to justice is currently under threat. The fact is that most families could not
take the financial and legal risk of going to the high Court and facing down a big
press bully as we have. That is why News UK and the big newspapers have opposed
Leveson's reforms and the arbitration scheme which is a necessary part of it. "
"It is why the latest industry poodle, IPSO, which the Times editor was allowed to
help appoint, does not even have the power to insist on its members providing
arbitration that Leveson required."
"It is time for Parliament to remind the newspaper owners that it is the people and
their elected representatives who run the country, not the moguls, and if they
continue to reject Leveson then as Lord Justice Leveson himself said, it will be
imposed on them to protect the public and public interest journalism."
Notes to editors
The defamatory article alleged that Mr and Mrs McCann had kept secret from
the investigating authorities crucial evidence (primarily consisting of "e-fits"
obtained by private investigators) relating to their daughter's abduction.
2. The Sunday Times' allegations were completely false.
3. As the newspaper now accepts, there is no question of the McCanns having
sought to suppress any evidence; indeed all of the material collated by the
private investigators had been provided to the relevant Portuguese and
Leicestershire police four years earlier. The private investigators' report
(including the e-fits) was also provided to the Metropolitan Police in 2011 shortly
after it commenced its review into Madeleine's disappearance.
2
McCann/Sunday Times - Press Release - 3.10.2014
1652465_1

4. The Sunday Times refused to apologise or to make a prompt and prominent
correction. The correction they printed 6 weeks later was on an inside page and
was inadequate.
5. The McCanns were forced to make a legal claim in the High Court because of
the Sunday Times' refusal to accept responsibility.
6. Only after the newspaper was sued did the it accept liability and offer to settle
the case.

3
McCann/Sunday Times - Press Release - 3.10.2014
1652465_1
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 06:31:37 PM

Here I'll explain in simpler terms for Brietta, because she's clearly struggling with this.

"The McCanns hid the e-fits from authorities" -untrue = Libel.

"The McCanns didn't release the e-fits to the public" - 100% true = Not in any way libellous.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on January 12, 2023, 06:56:05 PM
Here I'll explain in simpler terms for Brietta, because she's clearly struggling with this.

"The McCanns hid the e-fits from authorities" -untrue = Libel.

"The McCanns didn't release the e-fits to the public" - 100% true = Not in any way libellous.

By this stage the police had taken over the reins of the inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.  The police were in possession of all the evidence - including the efits - and were in the process of conducting a live investigation.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 06:59:25 PM
By this stage the police had taken over the reins of the inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.  The police were in possession of all the evidence - including the efits - and were in the process of conducting a live investigation.

That doesn't change the fact that the McCanns didn't release the e-fits to the public.

Have you removed the warning points you incorrectly gave me yet, or am I going to have to ask John?

Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: G-Unit on January 12, 2023, 08:15:56 PM
My, we've wandered off topic again haven't we?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 12, 2023, 08:45:15 PM
My, we've wandered off topic again haven't we?

That's interesting. They released information about Amaral, but didn't release the e-fits of the abductor.
Speaks volumes really doesn't it.

Yes, because of my 100% non libellous post, for which Brietta still hasn't removed the warning points she gave me in error.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on January 13, 2023, 12:02:11 AM
Yes, because of my 100% non libellous post, for which Brietta still hasn't removed the warning points she gave me in error.
#

IMO, you could do with a good few more warning points,


In fact, after the SEXUAL ABUSE you aimed at me a few days ago, you should have been EXPELLED from the forum.  Seems only VS saw it before it was removed.


Pretty disgusting to target a 85 year old woman sexually, but then. like Ret Sym and his son, The General, you  love to seek attention.   


Some call it * Showing off *
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 13, 2023, 04:33:53 PM
That doesn't change the fact that the McCanns didn't release the e-fits to the public.

Have you removed the warning points you incorrectly gave me yet, or am I going to have to ask John?

This has been dealt with.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: John on January 13, 2023, 04:35:42 PM
#

IMO, you could do with a good few more warning points,


In fact, after the SEXUAL ABUSE you aimed at me a few days ago, you should have been EXPELLED from the forum.  Seems only VS saw it before it was removed.


Pretty disgusting to target a 85 year old woman sexually, but then. like Ret Sym and his son, The General, you  love to seek attention.   


Some call it * Showing off *

You would make a super moderator Sadie.  Happy New Year by the way,

I haven't spoken to you for ages. Hope you and hubby are well?
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: sadie on January 13, 2023, 07:40:55 PM
You would make a super moderator Sadie.  Happy New Year by the way,

I haven't spoken to you for ages. Hope you and hubby are well?

Ancient decrepid, but OK thanks John.   Hope you keep well, too, and that doggie of yours: Hope s/he is fit and enjoying life.   Do you still do sheep herding trials?  They must be fun.


Happy New Year to you too.   This will be my last, the signs are there.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Eleanor on January 13, 2023, 07:44:48 PM
Ancient decrepid, but OK thanks John.   Hope you keep well, too, and that doggie of yours: Hope s/he is fit and enjoying life.   Do you still do sheep herding trials?  They must be fun.


Happy New Year to you too.   This will be my last, the signs are there.

Don't you dare say that.
Title: Re: Goncalo Amaral.
Post by: Brietta on February 18, 2023, 12:18:49 PM
Just a reminder

Snip
Fourteen years later, the former coordinator of the PJ portimão again points the finger at the parents of the British girl.

"Brueckner has nothing to do with Maddie's disappearance. It wouldn't be the first time a case would be solved with the construction of a suspect. The main people responsible for the disappearance are the parents. To this day I have no doubt that the kidnapping was simulated."

Gonçalo Amaral points to Maddie's parents: "Their behaviour was strange. It almost seemed like nothing had happened. They were more concerned about not serving them tea than about their daughter's absence."

"They wanted us to investigate the case as if it were a kidnapping," he said in an interview with German newspaper Bild. "But the investigation should have been more thorough and contemplating the hypothesis of murder."

The former inspector of the JUDICIARY also says that Brueckner was actually on a "list of pedophiles who lived in the region" at the time of the crimes. "The agents knocked on the door but he wasn't home,"[/size] he said.

The interim report signed by Gonçalo Amaral in September 2007 raised as a more likely hypothesis that Maddie had died and the body hidden.
https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/goncalo-amaral-arrasa-investigacao-que-aponta-brueckner-como-suspeito-do-rapto-e-morte-de-maddie-veja-agora-na-cmtv