Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?

[Robittybob1]

what did Yvonne Martin really know and find out?  How did Kate know a couple had abducted her daughter?

Full internet search for details and possible answers.

[Robittybob1]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7180.msg442909#msg442909
Where was Yvonne?  On holiday in Portugal within a couple of hours drive I suspect.
"During the past month of May or more precisely on the 04th of May 2007, the witness was in Portugal, enjoying holidays, when at about 07H00 she turned on the television and watched an English news channel (BBC or SKY NEWS) where she saw an appeal to British citizens on holiday in the Algarve to offer all possible support to a British couple who were on holiday in Praia da Luz and whose daughter, a child, had disappeared on May 03, 2007.

As she works directly with situations of children at risk, and as she was very close to Praia da Luz, she went there with the intention of offering her help and support to the couple, she arrived there at about 09H30."

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1327.msg430233#msg430233
"It appears that checks of the apartment occur at intervals.
Y. Martin reports she was told the intervals were hourly,..."

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8308.msg413299#msg413299
"Yvonne's statistic that "99.99% of missing children is due to the parents" (I could get the exact words) is way off the actual recorded statistics. (99.99% implies only 1 case in 10 thousand would be stranger or friends involved.  That is absolutely untrue.) "

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8240.msg409646#msg409646
"Amaral must have been astounded at her insight
"She adds that on one occasion, because it had occurred to her that the parents and the friends could eventually be involved in the child's disappearance, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police.

The statements given to the PJ today by Yvonne Martin provide a concrete clarification of the reasons for her suspicions, which in my opinion, do not point to any concrete element that could, in any way, make other inquiries directly related to her statements, viable."  Did I really write that?


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7879.msg376746#msg376746
"Similarly, no one had a right to sue Yvonne Martin, and rightly so.

It is a cardinal principle of statements given to the police that if they are given in good faith, the person who gives them is protected.

The job of the police, in any country, would be impossible otherwise."  [Interesting fact to know.]

[Robittybob1]

If Yvonne Martin was in Sargaçal when she heard the news, it would not take her long to get to PDL as the towns are only 8 Km apart directly  and not more than 12 km by road.  Yvonne "left at around 09H00" and "she arrived there at about 09H30". 

[Robittybob1]

From her statement:  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm
"- She identified herself and presented her credentials and immediately began talking to the mother of the missing child as she was visibly upset with the situation.

- During the conversation the mother told her that she did not understand why a couple had abducted her daughter."

Well let's see "she was visibly upset with the situation".  Pretty well expected that Kate was upset.  Nothing new there.
Next bit: "the mother told her that she did not understand why a couple had abducted her daughter".

So had someone told Kate that a couple had abducted her daughter?   How would Kate even begin to suspect that a couple had abducted her daughter?
Was this from the potential sighting at 6:00 AM near the Lagos Marina by George Burke Brooks?

It only makes sense to me that somehow the information of this sighting had been passed onto Kate either directly or via the PJ IMO.

Can anyone think of another reason Kate would wonder why a couple abducted her child?
 

[Eleanor]

I'm not sure Kate even mentioned a "couple", we only have Ms. Martins word for that.

[Carana]

From her statement:  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm
"- She identified herself and presented her credentials and immediately began talking to the mother of the missing child as she was visibly upset with the situation.

- During the conversation the mother told her that she did not understand why a couple had abducted her daughter."

Well let's see "she was visibly upset with the situation".  Pretty well expected that Kate was upset.  Nothing new there.
Next bit: "the mother told her that she did not understand why a couple had abducted her daughter".

So had someone told Kate that a couple had abducted her daughter?   How would Kate even begin to suspect that a couple had abducted her daughter?
Was this from the potential sighting at 6:00 AM near the Lagos Marina by George Burke Brooks?

It only makes sense to me that somehow the information of this sighting had been passed onto Kate either directly or via the PJ IMO.

Can anyone think of another reason Kate would wonder why a couple abducted her child?

If Kate had been shouting "they've taken her" again, YW might have assumed that she was referring to a couple.

[Robittybob1]

I'm not sure Kate even mentioned a "couple", we only have Ms. Martins word for that.

And I'd think she would have no reason to tell a lie.

[Robittybob1]

If Kate had been shouting "they've taken her" again, YW might have assumed that she was referring to a couple.

I don't follow your reasoning there sorry.

[Eleanor]

And I'd think she would have no reason to tell a lie.

Attention seeking.  She'd been blown out by David Payne, who she later suggested could be a paedophile, so probably sour grapes as well.

[jassi]

And I'd think she would have no reason to tell a lie.

What a trusting soul you are.

[Carana]

I don't follow your reasoning there sorry.

If Kate had said "they", most people would assume that it meant more than one person, hence the possibility of a misunderstanding in referring to a couple - if ever YM actually said the word and in which sense: a couple as in two people in a relationship; a couple as in more than one person...

I wasn't familiar with the expression, but I've been told - true or not - that in some parts of the UK, "they" is sometimes used to signify an unknown party, even when there's no indication of more than one person.

[jassi]

Yes, 'they' is often used as a gender-neutral pronoun to indicate an unknown person.
We English tend to use a lot of slangy, grammatically incorrect language.

[Eleanor]

If Kate had said "they", most people would assume that it meant more than one person, hence the possibility of a misunderstanding in referring to a couple - if ever YM actually said the word and in which sense: a couple as in two people in a relationship; a couple as in more than one person...

I wasn't familiar with the expression, but I've been told - true or not - that in some parts of the UK, "they" is sometimes used to signify an unknown party, even when there's no indication of more than one person.

"They", in these circumstances is something I try to avoid, but it is difficult if you don't know the gender. Using He or She  is a bit long winded.

[Carana]

Attention seeking.  She'd been blown out by David Payne, who she later suggested could be a paedophile, so probably sour grapes as well.

It's not clear why he seemed familiar to her. His face or his name? She didn't seem to remember the context, either.

She'd worked in Plymouth at some point, and there WAS a David Payne who was a child rapist (not the T9 one), released from prison in 2008. It's not clear where these offences occurred, but it may well have been in the south of England as it was a scandal when people discovered that he was living in Weymouth after his release.

She noticed that he had a southern accent, and together with the name plus her perception that her presence wasn't overly appreciated at the time, it may have rung a vague bell, if his conviction had been in the news, or if she'd had some form of contact with the social services involved in that case.

https://theukdatabase.com/2012/03/12/david-payne-weymouthchippenhamchippenham/

Whether that was the trigger or not, I find it to be a plausible potential explanation.

[Brietta]

It's not clear why he seemed familiar to her. His face or his name? She didn't seem to remember the context, either.

She'd worked in Plymouth at some point, and there WAS a David Payne who was a child rapist (not the T9 one), released from prison in 2008. It's not clear where these offences occurred, but it may well have been in the south of England as it was a scandal when people discovered that he was living in Weymouth after his release.

She noticed that he had a southern accent, and together with the name plus her perception that her presence wasn't overly appreciated at the time, it may have rung a vague bell, if his conviction had been in the news, or if she'd had some form of contact with the social services involved in that case.

https://theukdatabase.com/2012/03/12/david-payne-weymouthchippenhamchippenham/

Whether that was the trigger or not, I find it to be a plausible potential explanation.

In my opinion Ms Martin is an archetypal disaster tourist anxious to get as close to the action as possible.

If she was involved in child protection why did she show absolutely no concern for Madeleine's siblings or the other children in the party?

In my opinion she had absolutely no locus in interfering with a distraught mother by trying to usher her away from her support group as she waited for information about her missing daughter.

Concern for the children as per her alleged training, yes ... but she didn't actually show any, did she?