Author Topic: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?  (Read 49737 times)

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Offline misty

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #255 on: March 01, 2018, 08:08:23 PM »
She might even have a duty to step in.

She had no jurisdiction outside England, Rob. At the time she set out on the drive to Luz, I'm not sure she even knew Madeleine is English. Early Sky news only reported a British girl was missing.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #256 on: March 01, 2018, 08:22:57 PM »
The questions she was asking in my opinion was more to do with being inquisitive about what had happened,  she didn't know for instance if Madeleine had   wandered out of the apartment.   If you call what she did as being helpful to the McCann's then I disagree.    The McCann's have said there is no evidence Madeleine is dead, which there isn't.



Why are you bringing up baby P and Poppi they are entirely different cases to the McCann's.
What you are saying could be all true but it doesn't affect or lessen the duty of the Yvonne in her role as a Child Protection Officer. 
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Offline jassi

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #257 on: March 01, 2018, 08:24:31 PM »
She had no jurisdiction outside England, Rob. At the time she set out on the drive to Luz, I'm not sure she even knew Madeleine is English. Early Sky news only reported a British girl was missing.

What difference should that make?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline misty

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #258 on: March 01, 2018, 08:31:57 PM »
What difference should that make?

Different rules apply to each Union country & an English Social worker would not be able to get involved with e.g. a family who lived in Scotland without registration.

Offline jassi

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #259 on: March 01, 2018, 08:34:36 PM »
Different rules apply to each Union country & an English Social worker would not be able to get involved with e.g. a family who lived in Scotland without registration.

But we have agreed that she was not working in an official capacity, so not relevant.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline misty

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #260 on: March 01, 2018, 08:35:38 PM »
But we have agreed that she was not working in an official capacity, so not relevant.

Have we? She flashed her credentials at the McCanns.

Offline jassi

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #261 on: March 01, 2018, 08:39:31 PM »
Have we? She flashed her credentials at the McCanns.
Yes, but that surely was to show she was a social worker, not that she had any authority
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #262 on: March 01, 2018, 08:43:54 PM »
Different rules apply to each Union country & an English Social worker would not be able to get involved with e.g. a family who lived in Scotland without registration.
Well she might have made sure Madeleine was English before she went there, or as soon as she arrived.   Madeleine was English so that is the important thing covered if that is the case.    There is always the discovery process.  You can't have a situation where someone is too scared to ask in case she is from the wrong part of the Union.  If it became apparent Yvonne had the wrong authorities she would have backed off and got someone else involved IMO.

As Misty says "she flashed her credentials", obviously because she felt she had a right to do this.   Whilst it is voluntary and the parents agree to talk, she didn't insist on staying once she was asked to leave.

I could imagine back on UK soil it wouldn't be so easy to get rid of a child protection officer.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline misty

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #263 on: March 01, 2018, 08:44:50 PM »
Yes, but that surely was to show she was a social worker, not that she had any authority

Concerned citizens helped with the searches. YM attempted to interrogate Kate McCann. Was she not, therefore, attempting to assert some form of authority?

Offline Brietta

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #264 on: March 01, 2018, 08:45:01 PM »
That is not how I read her statement.  She had concern for the other kids.

"- During this time, she saw the third individual two more times. Firstly, when he was accompanying an older woman and the McCann twins, demonstrating in this way, the trust that the couple had in him by letting him take care of their two children. On the second occasion, he accompanied what appeared to her to be plain clothed police officers. "  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

In my opinion that wasn't concern for the children ... that was part of her insidious case building exercise to implicate innocent people and malign them.

She came in like a tornado, asked inappropriate questions, added more stress to an already overburdened mother, played amateur detective.

But at no time did she enquire about or offer practical help as far as any of the children were concerned.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #265 on: March 01, 2018, 08:47:12 PM »
No, not a duty, but possibly felt a moral obligation to try and help.
I can't see why people should be so antagonistic towards her.

Then why didn't she take it upon herself to check on the children?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #266 on: March 01, 2018, 08:49:50 PM »
Then why didn't she take it upon herself to check on the children?

They were probably in the creche by that time and so not available.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #267 on: March 01, 2018, 08:53:31 PM »
What you are saying could be all true but it doesn't affect or lessen the duty of the Yvonne in her role as a Child Protection Officer.

In Portugal her role was not as a child protection officer ... she was a civilian.  Just a member of the public but one most certainly without any more right than any other to approach Kate and Gerry in the way she did.

There are procedures to observe ... in my opinion her behaviour was extraordinary.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #268 on: March 01, 2018, 08:57:00 PM »
Well she might have made sure Madeleine was English before she went there, or as soon as she arrived.   Madeleine was English so that is the important thing covered if that is the case.    There is always the discovery process.  You can't have a situation where someone is too scared to ask in case she is from the wrong part of the Union.  If it became apparent Yvonne had the wrong authorities she would have backed off and got someone else involved IMO.

As Misty says "she flashed her credentials", obviously because she felt she had a right to do this.   Whilst it is voluntary and the parents agree to talk, she didn't insist on staying once she was asked to leave.

I could imagine back on UK soil it wouldn't be so easy to get rid of a child protection officer.

It is my opinion that on UK soil she would not have been allowed within 100 yards of parents in a like situation unless officially authorised to do so.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Yvonne Martin - how much information did she really uncover?
« Reply #269 on: March 01, 2018, 08:59:37 PM »
In my opinion that wasn't concern for the children ... that was part of her insidious case building exercise to implicate innocent people and malign them.

She came in like a tornado, asked inappropriate questions, added more stress to an already overburdened mother, played amateur detective.

But at no time did she enquire about or offer practical help as far as any of the children were concerned.
She suggested Kate and her go inside the apartment and talk privately.  No doubt that could have given Yvonne the opportunity to see if the twins had woken up by that stage.  Was she even aware there were other kids
involved at that initial stage?

She later sees Dianne taking the twins to creche I believe.

In Portugal her role was not as a child protection officer ... she was a civilian.  Just a member of the public but one most certainly without any more right than any other to approach Kate and Gerry in the way she did.

There are procedures to observe ... in my opinion her behaviour was extraordinary.
  Unless we know this for  certain that he role stops at the border.  Her role might extend to English children anywhere in the world all we know.

It is my opinion that on UK soil she would not have been allowed within 100 yards of parents in a like situation unless officially authorised to do so.
Who gives her that authority?  It is always going to be another person.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.