Scottish history, nationhood and independence.

[G-Unit]

I'm told that Rangers knocked back the opportunity to sign Danny McGrain because of the Catholic sounding name. 

LOL big mistake on two counts if true ...
The man became a legend ... and was also a protestant.

Things have been taking place for many years regarding the efforts of the two West Coast football clubs (along with others) and things are in the main much more civilised than it ever was.
Without being complacent I think the football clubs and charities such as 'Nil by Mouth' have had a tremendous presence in helping helping change.  So it isn't all doom and gloom.

Nude Old Firm fans tackle bigotry

Sunday, 23 September 2007

Old Firm fans strip off About 100 naked Old Firm fans have joined together to pose for a photograph at Hampden Park.
Alistair Devine said the image would show how far Scottish football has come in tackling sectarian violence.

In 1980, the photographer captured a famous scene of riots at an Old Firm Game at Hampden, with police on horses trying to halt fighting on the pitch.

The Rangers and Celtic supporters, both male and female, posed with just their scarves to cover their modesty.

Mr Devine, who a year ago organised a similar project where he photographed 30 nude volunteers in a Glasgow bar, said he hoped the image would show the unity between the fans.

"The point of the picture is quite simple," he said. "It is to let bigots be bygones and to move forward as a nation in our view towards bigotry.

"Back in the 1980s our game here was absolutely rife with bigotry and dreadful violence.

"We have moved on a long way. If we had tried this 25 years ago we would never had got it."

Mr Devine said the fans who had turned up for the photo were very brave.

He added that efforts by Scotland's churches, government, football clubs and the campaign group Nil by Mouth had helped to tackle sectarian violence in football.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7009122.stm

McGrain has since stated, "I don't know if that story's true. Over the years that followed nobody from Rangers ever told me they wanted to sign me".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_McGrain

[Erngath]

McGrain has since stated, "I don't know if that story's true. Over the years that followed nobody from Rangers ever told me they wanted to sign me".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_McGrain

Perhaps not but I do hope you aren't suggesting for one moment that Rangers Football club  did not have a sectarian policy

[Miss Taken Identity]

If you wish to taint your mind with making an attempt on plumbing the depths of what is known as "Scotland's Hidden Shame" (if memory serves me well we have a thread on 'sectarianism v the McCann family') you could do no better than reading through recent posts made on this thread and others.

You may have missed some of it because it is so insidious ... Ergath, myself and a few others perhaps got the full flavour of it.

'sectarianism v the McCann family' what?    Portugal is known as a 'catholic' country are you implying that the PJ hate the McCanns because they are catholic?
O m G 

many people of many faiths and religions do not believe the McCanns, just as many people with many faiths and religions handed over money and tried to help and support them,.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Perhaps not but I do hope you aren't suggesting for one moment that Rangers Football club  did not have a sectarian policy

They did, what about the SNP governments bigotry?  the catholic schools didn;t allow un christened by priests (hmmm) to attend their schools. this had to stop however, it is still written that non catholics cannot teach in catholic schools, but catholic teachers can teach in non catholic school...

Now about this wonderful independance and tax raising powers. Tricky Nicky tells the good people of the EU to send em refugees all over here, we have plenty money plenty food plenty everything ...

 oh but then.
https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/17400823.council-tax-set-to-rise-even-higher-in-snp-budget-deal-with-greens/

The good news is; refugees and asylum seekers do not pay council tax  pheew what a relief!

[Erngath]

They did, what about the SNP governments bigotry?  the catholic schools didn;t allow un christened by priests (hmmm) to attend their schools. this had to stop however, it is still written that non catholics cannot teach in catholic schools, but catholic teachers can teach in non catholic school...

Now about this wonderful independance and tax raising powers. Tricky Nicky tells the good people of the EU to send em refugees all over here, we have plenty money plenty food plenty everything ...

 oh but then.
https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/17400823.council-tax-set-to-rise-even-higher-in-snp-budget-deal-with-greens/

The good news is; refugees and asylum seekers do not pay council tax  pheew what a relief!

My friend, the daughter of  a Church of Scotland minister, dislikes being called non Catholic.
This friend whose ancestry is Scottish, no Irish immigrants blood, also voted for Independence.
My daughter in law, also a Protestant, would never tolerate being referred to as a non Catholic.
I tend to agree with them.
Perhaps use the word non religious, Protestant,.......

Can   I  suggest you leave behind the failings of previous years and move forward to more enlightened times.

ETA
I know the head teacher iof a Catholic High School where there are numerous children of no faith,  Protestant faith, Muslim children etc.
Same applies to the staff.

At my granddaughter's confirmation, there was  a  pew of her classmates of no religion, Muslim and Protestant  who wanted to share that special evening with their Catholic classmates.

Definitely time to catch up, wake up and smell the coffee.

[Brietta]

They did, what about the SNP governments bigotry?  the catholic schools didn;t allow un christened by priests (hmmm) to attend their schools. this had to stop however, it is still written that non catholics cannot teach in catholic schools, but catholic teachers can teach in non catholic school...

Now about this wonderful independance and tax raising powers. Tricky Nicky tells the good people of the EU to send em refugees all over here, we have plenty money plenty food plenty everything ...

 oh but then.
https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/17400823.council-tax-set-to-rise-even-higher-in-snp-budget-deal-with-greens/

The good news is; refugees and asylum seekers do not pay council tax  pheew what a relief!

The first non-Catholic Head teacher who was a member of the Church of Scotland was appointed to cover two Catholic secondary schools in 2008 ... and Catholic schools do appoint non-catholic teaching and support staff.

[G-Unit]

Perhaps not but I do hope you aren't suggesting for one moment that Rangers Football club  did not have a sectarian policy

Discrimination in employment was rife all over the UK and it's now illegal. Many people were affected by it but those who see it as sectarianism seem to complain lomger and louder than any other group in my opinion. 

[Mr Gray]

Discrimination in employment was rife all over the UK and it's now illegal. Many people were affected by it but those who see it as sectarianism seem to complain lomger and louder than any other group in my opinion.

what absolute rubbish...discrimination on the grounds of race or religion is unnaceptable...and everyone should complain

[Erngath]

Discrimination in employment was rife all over the UK and it's now illegal. Many people were affected by it but those who see it as sectarianism seem to complain lomger and louder than any other group in my opinion.

Which other group?
And who are these groups?

[G-Unit]

Which other group?
And who are these groups?

Read the anti-discrimination legislation; they are all listed there.

[Erngath]

Read the anti-discrimination legislation; they are all listed there.

I will at some time later.
Thankfully I've never been discriminated against..
Unfortunately some of my family have

[Angelo222]

Could we have less goading and a little more constructive comment otherwise I will have to get the rottweiler out. 

[Erngath]

Could we have less goading and a little more constructive comment otherwise I will have to get the rottweiler out.

I thought the debate was fairly constructive?
I didn't see any goading?

[G-Unit]

I will at some time later.
Thankfully I've never been discriminated against..
Unfortunately some of my family have

I think most pwople have been discriminated against but they don't always realise it.

[Eleanor]

I think most pwople have been discriminated against but they don't always realise it.

I was discriminated as a girl child of the Working Classes.  No half decent education for me.  But this was my parents who did this to me.