Author Topic: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.  (Read 60789 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #120 on: August 17, 2017, 11:37:40 AM »
Where on earth does it say Stephen Bain got in trouble with the law?!!!.  I notice you mention nothing about former Head girl and beauty queen, Arawa, getting on well with her teacher training and almost certainly the one in the Bain household "who most definitely deserved to stay" in preference to her dropout older brother who didn't even get on with his father!   What a hoax that computer message was!

Would Arawa have thrived and achieved what she did, had she been whisked away from her family?

In the MVB podcasts you kindly uploaded!!!  I think it is 3. 'A family's final days':

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8397.msg418894#msg418894

Yes I accept it seems Arawa emerged unscathed from this grossly dysfunctional family but I did read somewhere claims that she also suffered child sex abuse at RB's hands.  I will endeavour to find it.  DB also seemed unscathed until the murders.  David and Arawa were the older children and it seems the family went off the rails later when LB and SB were much younger and perhaps bore the brunt of all the dysfunction at vulnerable ages.

As you know it was claimed by many that LB intended to drop bombshell news over the weekend before the murders re her work in the sex industry and an incestuous relationship with RB.  On the Sun eve DB said he was in his bedroom (bed?) and heard raised voices but was unable to identify whose or what the conversations were about.  Maybe the reason DB was spared is that he wasn't privy to LB's bombshell disclosures about incest and prostitution.  Bearing in mind DB probably went to bed early due to his early rise for his paper round.  Maybe DB was the only one who "most definitely deserved to stay" because he wasn't privy to LB's bombshell and RB's shameful secret!?   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #121 on: August 17, 2017, 06:07:21 PM »
In the MVB podcasts you kindly uploaded!!!  I think it is 3. 'A family's final days':

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8397.msg418894#msg418894

Yes I accept it seems Arawa emerged unscathed from this grossly dysfunctional family but I did read somewhere claims that she also suffered child sex abuse at RB's hands.  I will endeavour to find it.  DB also seemed unscathed until the murders.  David and Arawa were the older children and it seems the family went off the rails later when LB and SB were much younger and perhaps bore the brunt of all the dysfunction at vulnerable ages.

As you know it was claimed by many that LB intended to drop bombshell news over the weekend before the murders re her work in the sex industry and an incestuous relationship with RB.  On the Sun eve DB said he was in his bedroom (bed?) and heard raised voices but was unable to identify whose or what the conversations were about.  Maybe the reason DB was spared is that he wasn't privy to LB's bombshell disclosures about incest and prostitution.  Bearing in mind DB probably went to bed early due to his early rise for his paper round.  Maybe DB was the only one who "most definitely deserved to stay" because he wasn't privy to LB's bombshell and RB's shameful secret!?   

Found it near the end of podcast 5, 37m:24s in, but MvB didn't explain further. I think it might have been because Stephen was known to be a scrapper, a bit hot-tempered and inclined to defend himself over-zealously. Maybe police were called to his school if and when a fight broke out.

http://stuff.libsyn.com/incest-blackmail-murder

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/81499657/faces-of-innocents-stephen-bain-was-gutsy-victim-of-nzs-most-notorious-murder-case

David Bain claimed in an early police interview that his memory was clear, right up to seeing his mother's body (although that should also have included his father's).  Sunday night's muffled argument supposedly occurred approaching midnight when he was in bed... but this tale was only introduced several months later, after he had time to ponder over and embellish the incest rumour. Similarly, he backdated the time of his tattoo (to remember his dog!) by 18 months, because having a memorial tattoo for his family, a black band with rose and feather symbolising love and death, done only a week before the murders would have looked suspicious.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #122 on: August 18, 2017, 07:39:04 AM »
In the MVB podcasts you kindly uploaded!!!  I think it is 3. 'A family's final days':

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8397.msg418894#msg418894

Yes I accept it seems Arawa emerged unscathed from this grossly dysfunctional family but I did read somewhere claims that she also suffered child sex abuse at RB's hands.  I will endeavour to find it.  DB also seemed unscathed until the murders.  David and Arawa were the older children and it seems the family went off the rails later when LB and SB were much younger and perhaps bore the brunt of all the dysfunction at vulnerable ages.

As you know it was claimed by many that LB intended to drop bombshell news over the weekend before the murders re her work in the sex industry and an incestuous relationship with RB.  On the Sun eve DB said he was in his bedroom (bed?) and heard raised voices but was unable to identify whose or what the conversations were about.  Maybe the reason DB was spared is that he wasn't privy to LB's bombshell disclosures about incest and prostitution.  Bearing in mind DB probably went to bed early due to his early rise for his paper round.  Maybe DB was the only one who "most definitely deserved to stay" because he wasn't privy to LB's bombshell and RB's shameful secret!?   
"I can see clearly now the rain has gone."

Holly you must feel right at home with Bain.
What is it about 23 year olds whose name starts with ba...?
Help me understand.

Ok, sheep to the slaughter....
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 08:37:22 AM by Samson »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #123 on: August 18, 2017, 12:18:28 PM »
Found it near the end of podcast 5, 37m:24s in, but MvB didn't explain further. I think it might have been because Stephen was known to be a scrapper, a bit hot-tempered and inclined to defend himself over-zealously. Maybe police were called to his school if and when a fight broke out.

http://stuff.libsyn.com/incest-blackmail-murder

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/81499657/faces-of-innocents-stephen-bain-was-gutsy-victim-of-nzs-most-notorious-murder-case

David Bain claimed in an early police interview that his memory was clear, right up to seeing his mother's body (although that should also have included his father's).  Sunday night's muffled argument supposedly occurred approaching midnight when he was in bed... but this tale was only introduced several months later, after he had time to ponder over and embellish the incest rumour. Similarly, he backdated the time of his tattoo (to remember his dog!) by 18 months, because having a memorial tattoo for his family, a black band with rose and feather symbolising love and death, done only a week before the murders would have looked suspicious.

It doesn't really matter what it was for, the fact remains most 14 year old boys from middle class families aren't in trouble with the law.  The fact his 17/18 year old sister was a cannabis user, sex worker and by all accounts engaged in an incestuous relationship with her father surely tells the world and his dog something was amiss with the parenting? 

We know the Bains marriage was over in all but name and according to the psychologist who met them in PNG this extended to their sex life.  Numerous witnesses came forward claiming LB was involved in an incestuous relationship with RB.  More believable since there's no evidence RB was getting his end away elsewhere eg MB or an extra-marital affair. 

LB was the only child who didn't live at ES.  The weekend before the murders on early Monday 20th June 1994 she spent the weekend there and made it clear to numerous others she intended to spill the beans on her life as a sex worker and an incestuous relationship with RB.  She claimed she wanted a clean break and to start afresh as told by numerous witnesses.

DB claims he went to bed at 8.30pm on the Sun eve.  Whether to sleep or just hang out in his bedroom I don't know.  DB started his paper round at 5.45am.  Even if we assume he did little before leaving he would need to get up around 5.30am.  If he fell asleep at 9.30pm/10.30pm he would have a typical 8/7 hours sleep.  By all accounts RB's alarm was set for 6.32am.  MB didn't work and had no reason to rise early.  Same for LB who was unemployed.  AB and SB were at Uni/school respectively - I don't know what time their classes started.  Point is none of them had any reason to rise anywhere near as early as DB.   Early to bed early to rise! 

DB claims he heard raised voices during the Sun eve but he was unable to say whose or what the conversations were about.

It seems clear to me LB dropped the bombshell and all were privy except DB who was in his bed/room/asleep.  Hence he was spared since he was oblivious to RB's shameful secret.  RB had to silence everyone who knew:  MB, AB, LB and SB he killed them and then took his own life.

Shame is a very  powerful emotion and IMO it was shame that triggered RB into murdering all those who were privy to LB's bombshell announcement of an incestuous relationship with her father.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/intense-emotions-and-strong-feelings/201104/shame-concealed-contagious-and-dangerous-emotion

They all deserved to live.  DB was spared because he was the only one oblivious to RB's sexual perversions.  DB was effectively saved by his paper round causing him to retire to bed and rise early. 

The tattoo reminds me of the claim JB made himself sick upon being told about his family's demise by thinking about Brambles, his deceased pet dog who was apparently run over.  All this stuff is simply a sideshow.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 12:27:19 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #124 on: August 18, 2017, 12:55:31 PM »
David Bain only claimed months after the murders, not in early police interviews when this should have been fresh in his mind, that he heard raised voices on the Sunday night.

Oblivious to his father's alleged but unproven perversions?!  If anyone knew the hidden secrets of the Bain family, David wouldn't be left out. He lived constantly with the friction between his parents, Laniet was frightened of him, as was Arawa.

The timing of the tattoo in memory of his dog was a deliberate attempt to mislead - very strange that he should have had it done 18 months after the dog was put down, yet just a week before his family are murdered.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 01:18:22 PM by Myster »
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #125 on: August 18, 2017, 01:17:30 PM »
David Bain only claimed months after the murders, not in early police interviews when this should have been fresh in his mind,  that he heard raised voices on the Sunday night.

Oblivious!  If anyone knew the hidden secrets of the Bain family, David wouldn't be left out. He lived constantly with the friction between Robin and Margaret.

DB was diagnosed with suffering from PTSD after finding his immediate family dead/murdered.

What singled DB out on the night before the murders?  He had to get up early and so went to bed early and was the only one not to learn about RB's sexual perversions hence "sorry, you are the only one who deserved to stay".   Do you think incest doesn't happen or do you think it only happens between certain types and RB/LB don't fit the profile?

The friction between RB and MB had nothing to do with RB having an incestuous relationship with LB.  DB didn't raise the incest with investigating officers as he knew nothing about it.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #126 on: August 18, 2017, 02:04:58 PM »
Apparently RB drove around with a sign in his car:

"Have you hugged your child today?"

Doesn't this say it all?  What sort of man drives around with such a sign?  I can't think of any man I have ever met in my life who would display such a sign.   

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #127 on: August 18, 2017, 04:58:45 PM »
DB was diagnosed with suffering from PTSD after finding his immediate family dead/murdered.

What singled DB out on the night before the murders?  He had to get up early and so went to bed early and was the only one not to learn about RB's sexual perversions hence "sorry, you are the only one who deserved to stay".   Do you think incest doesn't happen or do you think it only happens between certain types and RB/LB don't fit the profile?

The friction between RB and MB had nothing to do with RB having an incestuous relationship with LB.  DB didn't raise the incest with investigating officers as he knew nothing about it.
An affair. Secret, clandestine, obvious to some, but many remain oblivious.
David Bain has maintained, at his own peril, a respectful regard for his murdering father.

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #128 on: August 18, 2017, 06:28:23 PM »
Apparently RB drove around with a sign in his car:

"Have you hugged your child today?"

Doesn't this say it all?  What sort of man drives around with such a sign?  I can't think of any man I have ever met in my life who would display such a sign.
So what!... he liked children, was an inspirational teacher apparently and not the only one who went around with that bumper sticker.  Shops wouldn't sell 'em, if people didn't buy 'em... https://www.zazzle.com.au/hug+your+kids+gift

Besides, it was a family car and could have been Margaret's idea.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #129 on: August 19, 2017, 09:54:11 AM »
An affair. Secret, clandestine, obvious to some, but many remain oblivious.
David Bain has maintained, at his own peril, a respectful regard for his murdering father.

The word "affair" normalises an abnormal relationship.  If anything sexual took place in PNG when LB was below the age of consent it was child sex abuse.  I haven't once seen reference to the words 'child sex abuse'. 

Yes Justice Binnie pointed out DB's respectful regard for his murdering father. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #130 on: August 19, 2017, 10:07:20 AM »
So what!... he liked children, was an inspirational teacher apparently and not the only one who went around with that bumper sticker.  Shops wouldn't sell 'em, if people didn't buy 'em... https://www.zazzle.com.au/hug+your+kids+gift

Besides, it was a family car and could have been Margaret's idea.

Are these items readily available or does the software create such based on the Google search? 

Save prepubescent girls displaying such a message about about pets I find it infantile.

If the Bains were huggers it didn't seem to bode well:

- The parents were estranged.

- MB constantly put RB down and referred to him as the Devil (which was probably true).

- At the time of their deaths their youngest son was in trouble with the law; youngest daughter was suffering a STD, working in the sex industry, regularly smoked cannabis and told numerous witnesses she was having a sexual relationship with RB

- According to you their eldest son murdered them

 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #131 on: August 19, 2017, 10:38:33 AM »
Are these items readily available or does the software create such based on the Google search? 

Save prepubescent girls displaying such a message about about pets I find it infantile.

If the Bains were huggers it didn't seem to bode well:

- The parents were estranged.

- MB constantly put RB down and referred to him as the Devil (which was probably true).

- At the time of their deaths their youngest son was in trouble with the law; youngest daughter was suffering a STD, working in the sex industry, regularly smoked cannabis and told numerous witnesses she was having a sexual relationship with RB

- According to you their eldest son murdered them

Of course they're readily available, with stated delivery times... Zazzle is a cheapo alternative to eBay/Amazon, in Australia in this case, but there's also an NZ site.

https://www.zazzle.com.au/have_you_hugged_your_kids_today_bumper_sticker-128091903941882489

Highly unlikely that the Bains or anyone else in Dunedin were internet-connected in '94, and they only had a rudimentary DOS version of Microsoft Word. But I guess these bumper/window stickers were sold in shops at the time and could be bought by anyone who liked hugging their kids.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #132 on: August 20, 2017, 06:40:00 PM »
Here is the first part of a transcription of Justice Ian Binnie's interview with Kim Hill on RNZ.
Note his calm way of explaining behaviour and motive pointing to Robin Bain. He spent 6 months full time studying the case. He should be invited to help with Bamber, about 400k would do it.

KH:
And I asked him (Binnie) if he had heard Martin van Beynen’s Podcast series Black Hands

IB:
No, I was told about it, I haven’t listened to it.I regard the title Black Hands as a kind of code for David Bain is crazy, because the ‘black hand’ is one of the images the police relied on to show that DB verged on insane, and MvB I became quite familiar with his writings - I think he’s a very capable journalist but he’s one of these ‘on one hand, on the other hand’ always winds up against DB, and even Ian Callinan did not go as far as it seems to me as MvB goes, I regard MvB as a kind of Inspector Javert in Les Miserables, chasing DB down through the ages, I’m sure the programme is very well done, I’m sure its very informative but I’m not at all surprised it comes down solidly and I gather fairly consistently against DB.

KH:
Yes, it does but he goes through the evidence he regards as inclining to that view, quite scrupulously and some of it still baffles the public till this day, you know… issues like why DB told the Emergency call taker that his family was all dead, but later told police that he had only seen his mother and his father - I dunno whether I can characterise your conclusion as being that he was so traumatised and confused by the events that inconsistencies in his account is, are completely comprehensible?

IB:
Well I think that was the conclusion of the Crown Psychologist Dr Brinded, when he was examined..er.. the lawyer Michael Guest wanted wanted to run a sort of ‘insanity defence’ er, although DB certainly wasn’t participating, in that initiative, so… Guest had DB examined by the psychologist, and he was determined to be perfectly er, sane.
So there are all sorts of twists and turns in here… and as IC commented on in his report and I agree with him, there are a lot of loose ends that have to remain untied because nobody… because the evidence isn’t there anymore. What evidence that was collected, a lot of it was destroyed, there was a lot of evidence that wasn’t collected.
I gather that theres an issue in the programme about a tattoo and some lady has come forward and said oh well the tattoo wasn’t applied when DB said it was.
You know people keep coming out of the woodwork in the DB case…

KH:
Just to clarify that tattoo issue, DB told you, that the tattoo on his arm, was, in memory of a dog that had recently died, and he was very fond of animals, but it turns out he had the tattoo, - the dog had died, like a year and a half earlier, and he’s had the tattoo done a week before his family died.
There are… more than inconsistencies involved, in that kind of.. misleading statement.. are there not?

IB:
Well you’re assuming the truth of this individual who’s come forward to contradict him. I don’t know whether you can make that assumption, I don’t know anything about the person, or the story but all the way thru the Bain case people kept popping out of the woodwork… er the one I found the most incredible is that there was a correctional officer called Thomas Samuel, who turned up at the 2009 trial and said he had examined DB at the prison at the time DB was admitted, this is pre-trial and there were claw marks on his chest, which he described as being consistent with being grabbed in a death struggle with Steven.
DB had just before that encounter with Mr Samuels been examined by the police doctor Dr. Pride who was nothing if not meticulous in his examination of DB, and he too samples of his penis and so on.. and think that Dr. Pride would have ‘missed’ all of these scratches and gougings that Samuel had reported er, defies belief.
So I don’t think in the DB case you can assume that people who come out of the left field and say that well this and er that and well thats not what he told me that its all correct - some of it may be correct, some of it may not be correct I don’t know, but I’m not surprised that witnesses kept… Er, its a kind of notoriety people like to er be public figures and here's their chance to step forward and either contradict him and in this case, Thomas Samuels i have no idea what Thomas Samuel was thinking but it absolutely defies belief that DB’s chest would be massively scratched and the police doctor wouldn’t have noticed it
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 06:46:06 PM by Samson »

Offline Samson

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #133 on: August 20, 2017, 06:48:03 PM »
Part 2
KH:
There are factors that do not rely on hearsay or people coming out of the woodwork, however you know the washing containing the green jersey worn by the killer.
The Crown says that David was trying to destroy the evidence… but the defence says the jersey was put in the washing basket by Robin Bain (David’s father) after he shot the family. Is that credible? Why would that happen? That goes to the larger question is it really credible that Robin Bain could have done it because if DB didn’t, RB must have right?

IB:
I think thats been the working assumption and I don’t know any reason to dispute it er.. the green jersey as you know is a highly contentious issue, it belonged to RB, he’s 5ft 10, DB is 6ft 4, I’m 6’1 and DB towers over me, its hard to believe that DB could wear his fathers sweater, I read somewhere that DB who was about 20lb heavier than his father - so there are a lot of issues around the ‘green sweater’.
Clearly, if Robin did it, then he obviously changed his clothes, before he committed suicide.

KH:
Is that likely?

IB:
Well the Privy Council, I dunno if you have read, Lord Bingham’s judgement but they go thru all this and say look these footprints if these so called luminol footprints, did indeed belong to RB then…
3 consequences follow, Firstly that Robin was in an area of the house where on the Crown’s theory he could not have been, Secondly Robin must have changed his clothing in order to be found where he was, when he was, and relatively clean clothing. And that Thirdly, the/this combination of events, triggered by these footprints, would point if believed to the guilt of RB. So… it is absolutely ‘true’ that if DB is innocent, then RB had quite a quite elaborate scheme put together to accomplish in the hour, that DB was out on his paper route.

KH:
I can’t remember if anything what the Privy Council said about these ‘white dress gloves’ they belonged to DB, they were found covered in blood, found under Stevens bed… did the Privy Council address that ‘cause that - another…

IB:
Well I think they refer to it, they didn’t put much weight on it

KH:
Tell me the question is why… why would Robin wear David’s gloves, as he was going to commit suicide… and why would David not dispose of the gloves, if he was the killer… y’know everything seems unlikely after a certain point doesn’t it…

IB:
Yes it does. Thats a good question as to why would DB not dispose of it - why wouldn’t he change his clothes? If he was guilty, the fact of the matter is that he could wear DB’s gloves, David could not wear Robins gloves. Clearly there was something at work here, to shift the blame, on to David.
David as you know exonerates his father, says if he couldn’t imagine that his father would have done this, although the implication is obvious that if the father did NOT do it - then David did it.
But there are all kinds of suspicious circumstances working against Robin as there are working against David. The suicide note on the computer…

KH:
But it wasn’t a suicide note actually was it… It was - you are like the only one

IB:
You see.. if the computer was turned on, as the evidence seemed to show well the Crown having relied on ‘computer turn on time’ in 1995, now turns around and says all that evidence is unreliable

KH:
I nearly meant by that, that “you are the only one who deserved to stay” could not been construed as a suicide note per se could it.

IB:
But its a note to his son.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 06:57:41 PM by Samson »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: A look at the Bain family murders which occurred in Dunedin NZ in 1994.
« Reply #134 on: August 21, 2017, 09:48:57 AM »
Thank goodness for people like Justice Binnie: non prejudicial, intelligent, common sense and compassionate.  A complete contrast with the trial judge and appeal court judges in JB's case.

Samson can we get him on board with JB?  The similarities with the Bain case are striking and I'm sure he would find it of interest. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?