Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.

[Robittybob1]

Does it? 
Kate said the gate was closed.
Nobody corroborated that as far as I'm aware.
If Matt definitely closed the gate, then that would be corroboration.

No it wouldn't for there was 30 minutes between Matt's visit and Kate's check.  Many things could have happened in half an hour.

[G-Unit]

That sentence has a strange construction.  There could even be a change of thought half way through it TBH.

" I thought we'll go straight to Jane and you know tell her that Madeleine was missing but if sort of Kate and Fi and you know Dave and Gerry might have come out of the apartment and sort of been standing around there and talking about this, these shutters being up and the window being open, ..."

The bolded bit is not fluent and I wouldn't take it as gospel.  but if sort of Kate and Fi and you know Dave and Gerry might have come out of the apartment  On its own it hardly makes sense.

Generally Rachael is understandable but not always correct.

Just before that Rachael said more. I wonder if the shutters do stay up if lifted from outside? All this experimentation with those shutters!

Reply 'Erm but I mean I remember kind of standing near the window with Kate and Fiona, erm so but I mean I don't remember the specifics of anyone actually saying to me that, I think it was just sort of a general, Kate and Fi were sort of milling around outside the apartment, outside her and Kate's apartment and cos I think at, either at that point or perhaps it was later in the night, erm you know Kate had tried to see whether you could lift the shutters from the outside, erm but which you could and they would stay up, erm so I think, I don't think anyone told me specifically that the windows were open and the shutters were up, it was just erm you know kind of listening to conversations and seeing Kate and Fiona, erm sort of outside the apartment'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

[jassi]

No it wouldn't for there was 30 minutes between Matt's visit and Kate's check.  Many things could have happened in half an hour.

Well yes it could, but I don't think there would have been a stream of people coming and going through that gate.
It is reasonable to think that Kate should have found the gate just as Matt left it - IMO

[niklasericson]

If the Detectives are investigating the woke and wandered scenario and that a possible accident occurred, I have a strong feeling which element they are investigates.

[Robittybob1]

Well yes it could, but I don't think there would have been a stream of people coming and going through that gate.
It is reasonable to think that Kate should have found the gate just as Matt left it - IMO

There only needs to be one person.

[Robittybob1]

If the Detectives are investigating the woke and wandered scenario and that a possible accident occurred, I have a strong feeling which element they are investigates.

If you have a feeling you are allowed to say it on the forum as long as it is clear it is your opinion.  You can't state feelings as if they are facts OK.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Just before that Rachael said more. I wonder if the shutters do stay up if lifted from outside? All this experimentation with those shutters!

Reply 'Erm but I mean I remember kind of standing near the window with Kate and Fiona, erm so but I mean I don't remember the specifics of anyone actually saying to me that, I think it was just sort of a general, Kate and Fi were sort of milling around outside the apartment, outside her and Kate's apartment and cos I think at, either at that point or perhaps it was later in the night, erm you know Kate had tried to see whether you could lift the shutters from the outside, erm but which you could and they would stay up, erm so I think, I don't think anyone told me specifically that the windows were open and the shutters were up, it was just erm you know kind of listening to conversations and seeing Kate and Fiona, erm sort of outside the apartment'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

 "Kate had tried to see whether you could lift the shutters from the outside, erm but which you could and they would stay up,"

Oh we we not told the shutters were up and the window was open? so why would Kate play with the shutters to see if they would stay up after telling us they did stay up? how bloody odd.
So the tapas were playing with the shutters and window beofre the PJ arrived. not tampering with evidence then eh? Perhaps it is no surprise Kates finger prints are on the window and the 'abductors   isn't... Hmmmm

[niklasericson]

If you have a feeling you are allowed to say it on the forum as long as it is clear it is your opinion.  You can't state feelings as if they are facts OK.

In some way it is facts because it can be found in the files so maybe you already know about it but I will not drop any names, this couple are today married and lives in the UK.


Snipped from the files:
Element 1 (Female)
on the day in question (03.05.07) at around 20h30, her boyfriend was called as there was a problem with a lock in an apartment situated in the northern part of the resort, close to the Millennium restaurant and she had accompanied her boyfriend in her car from her home in Lagos to the apartment in question.
After her boyfriend had completed the service, at about 21H00, they went to the resort reception with the aim of her boyfriend collecting a service vehicle.
For this purpose, the witness and her boyfriend travelled in her car, a Peugeot model 106, metallic grey in colour, along various roads of the resort, having taken the road adjacent to the pool and Tapas restaurant area, passing by the apartment where Madeleine and her family were staying, according to what she was subsequently informed about the location.
When questioned, the witness states that when she travelled along the roads in question, which make up the resort, and principally those which she later learnt were adjacent to the apartment where Madeleine was staying and disappeared from, close to the Tapas restaurant, which she did at about 21H00, (03 May, 2007) the witness states that she saw no vehicle, person or other situation that she considered suspicious that could be directly or indirectly related to the facts being investigated.
When asked, the witness states that after her boyfriend had collected a service vehicle, from the Ocean Club reception, which took place at about 21H00, they both went to her home, but in separate vehicles, arriving at about 21H15.
----------------
Element 2 Boyfriend;
Snipped from the files:
Questioned, he states that, last Thursday, he was off duty but was called by the reception and went to the resort around 020H30 to open a door that had problems. After completing the work for which he was called, which took him about 15 minutes, he left for his residence, and was again contacted, at around 22H15 to ask him if there were torch/flash lights that could be used to help look for a child that had gone missing. The deponent responded that there weren't any and was not called again that night.

------------
The girlfriend says:  He was done with the work at 21:00 and after this they were going to the reception because her boyfriend would pick up a service vehicle and after this they were driving home in separate cars.

The boyfriend says: He was done with work at 20:45 and left for his residence.

It was a very short period of time but it differ about ~20-30minutes and he not even mentioned that he picked up a service vehicle.

[G-Unit]

 "Kate had tried to see whether you could lift the shutters from the outside, erm but which you could and they would stay up,"

Oh we we not told the shutters were up and the window was open? so why would Kate play with the shutters to see if they would stay up after telling us they did stay up? how bloody odd.
So the tapas were playing with the shutters and window beofre the PJ arrived. not tampering with evidence then eh? Perhaps it is no surprise Kates finger prints are on the window and the 'abductors   isn't... Hmmmm

Gerry said he had a go at the shutters too; as did Fiona, I think. So we have Kate, Fiona, Gerry and David discussing and moving shutters between 22.05 and 22.15. Rachael is lurking nearby, between the McCann's window and the main entrance. This is just after she and Matt have checked on their daughter. Jane, I assume, is still in her apartment oblivious to what is going on because Rachael is planning to go and tell her about it. So where are Russell and Mathew? Mathew seems to have been around, because Fiona asked him to go and call the police. He mentions Jane, but she was still in her apartment according to Rachael and knew nothing.

we went round to check firstly on Grace to make sure she was okay......and then Jane said, the shutters up........so Fiona, I think, asked me to go and phone the Police, and that must have been about five past, it's difficult to know what time it was at that time, but maybe about ten past ten, five past ten, ten past ten'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

 

[Robittybob1]

 "Kate had tried to see whether you could lift the shutters from the outside, erm but which you could and they would stay up,"

Oh we we not told the shutters were up and the window was open? so why would Kate play with the shutters to see if they would stay up after telling us they did stay up? how bloody odd.
So the tapas were playing with the shutters and window beofre the PJ arrived. not tampering with evidence then eh? Perhaps it is no surprise Kates finger prints are on the window and the 'abductors   isn't... Hmmmm

Rachael doesn't say she saw Kate playing with the shutters , no she only thinks Kate was playing with the shutters. 
It could be a complete misunderstanding on Rachael's part.

[Robittybob1]

In some way it is facts because it can be found in the files so maybe you already know about it but I will not drop any names, this couple are today married and lives in the UK.


Snipped from the files:
Element 1 (Female)
on the day in question (03.05.07) at around 20h30, her boyfriend was called as there was a problem with a lock in an apartment situated in the northern part of the resort, close to the Millennium restaurant and she had accompanied her boyfriend in her car from her home in Lagos to the apartment in question.
After her boyfriend had completed the service, at about 21H00, they went to the resort reception with the aim of her boyfriend collecting a service vehicle.
For this purpose, the witness and her boyfriend travelled in her car, a Peugeot model 106, metallic grey in colour, along various roads of the resort, having taken the road adjacent to the pool and Tapas restaurant area, passing by the apartment where Madeleine and her family were staying, according to what she was subsequently informed about the location.
When questioned, the witness states that when she travelled along the roads in question, which make up the resort, and principally those which she later learnt were adjacent to the apartment where Madeleine was staying and disappeared from, close to the Tapas restaurant, which she did at about 21H00, (03 May, 2007) the witness states that she saw no vehicle, person or other situation that she considered suspicious that could be directly or indirectly related to the facts being investigated.
When asked, the witness states that after her boyfriend had collected a service vehicle, from the Ocean Club reception, which took place at about 21H00, they both went to her home, but in separate vehicles, arriving at about 21H15.
----------------
Element 2 Boyfriend;
Snipped from the files:
Questioned, he states that, last Thursday, he was off duty but was called by the reception and went to the resort around 020H30 to open a door that had problems. After completing the work for which he was called, which took him about 15 minutes, he left for his residence, and was again contacted, at around 22H15 to ask him if there were torch/flash lights that could be used to help look for a child that had gone missing. The deponent responded that there weren't any and was not called again that night.

------------
The girlfriend says:  He was done with the work at 21:00 and after this they were going to the reception because her boyfriend would pick up a service vehicle and after this they were driving home in separate cars.

The boyfriend says: He was done with work at 20:45 and left for his residence.

It was a very short period of time but it differ about ~20-30 minutes and he not even mentioned that he picked up a service vehicle.

I did study those two statements and found them a bit odd.  So for some  reason you have a belief this couple is being investigated.    That is complete news to me.
HAYLEY MAY CRAWFORD
Nuno Conceicao

[niklasericson]

I did study those two statements and found them a bit odd.  So for some  reason you have a belief this couple is being investigated.    That is complete news to me.
HAYLEY MAY CRAWFORD
Nuno Conceicao

That's my feeling, of course I don't have any insight in the investigation but it would be strange if the detectives investigating an car accident and not ask them again to clarify why there were discrepancies in their statements.

[Brietta]

I did study those two statements and found them a bit odd.  So for some  reason you have a belief this couple is being investigated.    That is complete news to me.
HAYLEY MAY CRAWFORD
Nuno Conceicao

Did anyone else, either employee or visitor, mention seeing either of these witnesses?

If not, I think it is an example of why people who were out and about indulging in legitimate activities could become invisible.

Particularly if they were dressed in a recognisable holiday firm livery or even better and or, driving a van displaying a holiday company logo.

[Sunny]

That is a question you must pose to gunit for a response.  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10478.msg509262#msg509262 her post makes reference to it here ... which is the first time I have ever seen mention of any named individual carrying out searches any where in areas not specifically connected with Madeleine.

Of course we do know that individuals did knock doors in the apartment blocks, but I am unaware of any being identified.

Weren't you aware that Jez Wilkins was woken up around 1am I think.

[niklasericson]

Did anyone else, either employee or visitor, mention seeing either of these witnesses?

If not, I think it is an example of why people who were out and about indulging in legitimate activities could become invisible.

Particularly if they were dressed in a recognisable holiday firm livery or even better and or, driving a van displaying a holiday company logo.

Correct me if wrong but I do not think any witness saw them. Jenny Murat claimed in media she saw a small grey car driving the wrong way street.
This couple were driving a grey Peugeot 106.
Jenny said she left home for the Supermarket at 19:50 so the time do not match.
This Nuno was off duty this evening and they drove away after he got the call from OC so why did he collect a service vehicle AFTER the job was done when he was on the way home? and he also leaves this information out of his statement?