Trudie Benjamin - 'Why I believe Jeremy Bamber is innocent'.

[Alice]

I have read that the bullets used have an oil coating and it is impossible to load them without getting this on your hands.

[Caroline]

SC's hands (swabs) were not tested for gsr.  Oil on hands from firearm discharge doesn't feature as a recognised forensic test.  Where would oil come from?

Because trigger machanisms etc. are lubricated after cleaning. Jeremy stated that his father most likely removed the sights in order to clean the gun, so if he is telling the truth (there's a BIF 'if'), you might expect to find oil lubriction on the rifle.

[Holly Goodhead]

Or on her nightdress. Also, no blood spatter from any of the victims.

Afaik SC's nightdress wasn't tested for GSR?  Given the rifle was found resting on her nightdress and fired twice over her nightdress, whether by her own hand or JB's, the presence of GSR wouldn't tell us anything?

Unlikely a .22 long rifle with subsonic ammo would generate back spatter capable of reaching the perp.  Then there are the physiological changes to victims having sustained 1 gsw ie lowering of blood pressure making successive gsw's less likely to produce back spatter.

The bloodstains on the rifle were said to resemble "splashes" and "smears" probably from when NB sustained injuries from a "blunt instrument".  However these stains were in such small quantity it wasn't even possible to group them unlike the silencer    If the victims generated copious amounts of blood spatter then why wasn't it on the rifle?   

[Caroline]

I have read that the bullets used have an oil coating and it is impossible to load them without getting this on your hands.

There is some debate as to what constitued the coating.

[Holly Goodhead]

I have read that the bullets used have an oil coating and it is impossible to load them without getting this on your hands.

That wasn't my personal experience.  The cartridges are coated in paraffin wax and designed to be "non-greasy".

[Holly Goodhead]

Because trigger machanisms etc. are lubricated after cleaning. Jeremy stated that his father most likely removed the sights in order to clean the gun, so if he is telling the truth (there's a BIF 'if'), you might expect to find oil lubriction on the rifle.

But when did the cleaning take place and had it actually been discharged since?  The rifle was found resting across SC's nightdress which was tested for the presence of gun oil and none found. 

[Caroline]

Afaik SC's nightdress wasn't tested for GSR?  Given the rifle was found resting on her nightdress and fired twice over her nightdress, whether by her own hand or JB's, the presence of GSR wouldn't tell us anything?

Unlikely a .22 long rifle with subsonic ammo would generate back spatter capable of reaching the perp.  Then there are the physiological changes to victims having sustained 1 gsw ie lowering of blood pressure making successive gsw's less likely to produce back spatter.

The bloodstains on the rifle were said to resemble "splashes" and "smears" probably from when NB sustained injuries from a "blunt instrument".  However these stains were in such small quantity it wasn't even possible to group them unlike the silencer    If the victims generated copious amounts of blood spatter then why wasn't it on the rifle?

There doesn't have to be 'copious' amounts (although there was copious amounts around Nevil). Blood was present on the rifle but none was found f Sheila's nightdress - you would expect to find at least traces if she had shot and battered her father to death. This also makes Roch's claim that victims were close enough to gouge eachother - when no cross transference of blood was reported (I guess he would say it was all hidden under the orders of Ainsley).

[Nicholas]

There doesn't have to be 'copious' amounts (although there was copious amounts around Nevil). Blood was present on the rifle but none was found f Sheila's nightdress - you would expect to find at least traces if she had shot and battered her father to death. This also makes Roch's claim that victims were close enough to gouge eachother - when no cross transference of blood was reported (I guess he would say it was all hidden under the orders of Ainsley).

 

[Caroline]

But when did the cleaning take place and had it actually been discharged since?  The rifle was found resting across SC's nightdress which was tested for the presence of gun oil and none found.

Well, if it was cleaning, it had to be between the time AP stayed at WHF and the night of the murders. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the sights were removed for cleaning - I think Jeremy removed them.

[Holly Goodhead]

There doesn't have to be 'copious' amounts (although there was copious amounts around Nevil). Blood was present on the rifle but none was found f Sheila's nightdress - you would expect to find at least traces if she had shot and battered her father to death. This also makes Roch's claim that victims were close enough to gouge eachother - when no cross transference of blood was reported (I guess he would say it was all hidden under the orders of Ainsley).

Yes there was copious amounts of blood around Nevil from his leaking gsw's.  The same for SC and June.  But as you have pointed out unless victims/perp entered into hand to hand combat this was unlikely to transfer.  I don't believe there was any physical contact between victims and perp.  Blood spatter from gsw's is different in that it's aerial and presents as tiny droplets but its presence is dependent on many factors eg calibre and type of firearm, anatomical location of wound and whether victim had already sustained gsw's.  It's unlikely any blood spatter was produced at WHF but even if it did blood serology testing used at JB's trial wasn't capable of typing such small quantities and since the nightdress has since been destroyed against police procedures we'll never know what it may have revealed using DNA testing.

Bloodstains on the rifle were of such small quantity it wasn't possible to type them.  The rifle was found resting on SC's person/nightdress.  If any blood transferred it wouldn't reveal a) the perp and b) the quantity would be too small for testing based on blood serology.       

[Caroline]

Yes there was copious amounts of blood around Nevil from his leaking gsw's.  The same for SC and June.  But as you have pointed out unless victims/perp entered into hand to hand combat this was unlikely to transfer.  I don't believe there was any physical contact between victims and perp.  Blood spatter from gsw's is different in that it's aerial and presents as tiny droplets but its presence is dependent on many factors eg calibre and type of firearm, anatomical location of wound and whether victim had already sustained gsw's.  It's unlikely any blood spatter was produced at WHF but even if it did blood serology testing used at JB's trial wasn't capable of typing such small quantities and since the nightdress has since been destroyed against police procedures we'll never know what it may have revealed using DNA testing.

Bloodstains on the rifle were of such small quantity it wasn't possible to type them.  The rifle was found resting on SC's person/nightdress.  If any blood transferred it wouldn't reveal a) the perp and b) the quantity would be too small for testing based on blood serology.     

No blood smears were visible on the nightdress. If the rifles had smears just way you carry and fire the gun would result in transference unless you walked arounf with it at arms length at all times. Blood didn't transfer after the rifle was placed on the body because it was probably dry when placed there.

[puglove]

No blood smears were visible on the nightdress. If the rifles had smears just way you carry and fire the gun would result in transference unless you walked arounf with it at arms length at all times. Blood didn't transfer after the rifle was placed on the body because it was probably dry when placed there.

Boom!!

[Holly Goodhead]

No blood smears were visible on the nightdress. If the rifles had smears just way you carry and fire the gun would result in transference unless you walked arounf with it at arms length at all times. Blood didn't transfer after the rifle was placed on the body because it was probably dry when placed there.

Blood smears were visible on the nightdress ie the so-called palm print.  At trial John Hayward said he tested one of the marks and it was consistent with SC's blood group.  I have a good quality hard copy soc image and can see what appears to be a small bloodstain away from all other stains.  The stains on the rifle were of such small quantity I doubt there was sufficient to transfer.  Research shows it takes blood around 60 mins to completely dry on a hard surface at an ambient temp of 20 degrees.   

[Caroline]

Blood smears were visible on the nightdress ie the so-called palm print.  At trial John Hayward said he tested one of the marks and it was consistent with SC's blood group.  I have a good quality hard copy soc image and can see what appears to be a small bloodstain away from all other stains.  The stains on the rifle were of such small quantity I doubt there was sufficient to transfer.  Research shows it takes blood around 60 mins to completely dry on a hard surface at an ambient temp of 20 degrees.

There would be traces if the rifle was smeared and the blood was wet - of curse there would. Smears from the rifle would be on the side of the nightdress. Those stains on the front are too well defined in shape to have come from the rifle.

[Holly Goodhead]

There would be traces if the rifle was smeared and the blood was wet - of curse there would. Smears from the rifle would be on the side of the nightdress. Those stains on the front are too well defined in shape to have come from the rifle.

But the smears on the rifle were tiny and incapable of blood typing they were so small so how would we know whether tiny transfer stains were a) on SC's nightdress and b) if they were present it wouldn't be possible to blood type the stains anyway.