UK and North American politics. => A look at British politics in the light of the decision to leave the EU. => Topic started by: John on June 24, 2016, 05:55:49 AM
Title: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 05:55:49 AM
'This is our independence day!' Britain delivers stunning Leave vote in EU referendum as Nigel Farage hails a 'victory for ordinary people'
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: scipio_usmc on June 24, 2016, 06:07:52 AM
374/382 16.85 million leave, 15.7 million stay
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 24, 2016, 06:36:24 AM
Well I freely admit I didn't see that coming. I thought it would be close, but I didn't think that we would vote for brexit.
But here we a re, the democratic decision has been made and we need to move on and see how to make the absolute best of it.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 07:32:24 AM
I was surprised to learn this morning that if Scotland and London had cast enough votes for remain the rest of the UK's votes would have been immaterial.
Does this make Cameron's position untenable? Should he resign? Will there be a leadership challenge?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2016, 08:43:17 AM
i'm all for brexit as the Eu is on a self destruct course......however voting out is one thing and getting out is another. Around two thirds of MPs support remain and they are teh ones who are going to have to vote for the laws for the exit
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 24, 2016, 08:46:21 AM
I was surprised to learn this morning that if Scotland and London had cast enough votes for remain the rest of the UK's votes would have been immaterial.
Does this make Cameron's position untenable? Should he resign? Will there be a leadership challenge?
Cameron quits! Thank the almighty... or rather all the passionate Brits who saw sense!
I was surprised to learn this morning that if Scotland and London had cast enough votes for remain the rest of the UK's votes would have been immaterial.
Does this make Cameron's position untenable? Should he resign? Will there be a leadership challenge?
Well he just has.
I did expect Brexit to win, as I have posted, but I thought it would have been even closer. It is a shame that all eligible voters did not make their mark yesterday.
A campaign largely fought on fear of Immigration.
Well for those who voted out, you have no one to blame but yourselves if it turns sour.
P.S. Cameron had to go. His position was untenable. Now the fight for power will start. Likewise, the majority of M.P.'s were for remain. Interesting times ahead.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 09:05:35 AM
Cameron promised to begin the process of leaving immediately if the vote was to leave. By resigning he has managed to delay that until after October. Interesting! Is that why he had to go?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 09:13:28 AM
Cameron promised to begin the process of leaving immediately if the vote was to leave. By resigning he has managed to delay that until after October. Interesting! Is that why he had to go?
I think G-Unit he passed the buck to his successor, as he was not prepared to be the P.M. to trigger Article 50, which he knows will have it's consequences.
From the 'Sun'
'More than £100 billion was wiped off the FTSE 100 as the index fell more than 7%, while the pound also crashed 8% against the US dollar.'
Just the beginning.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 09:26:25 AM
Brexit won because every vote counted. In General Elections they don't. Perhaps we would have very different governments if our General Elections were more reflective of majority votes, rather than majority constituencies.
General Election: Votes v Seats
Green 1.2M votes, 1 seat
Ukip 3.8M votes, 1 seat.
Lib Dems 2.4M votes, eight seats.
SNP 1.5M votes, 56 seats.
Labour 9.2M votes, 229 seats
Conservatives 11.M votes 325 seats
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 09:32:08 AM
I think G-Unit he passed the buck to his successor, as he was not prepared to be the P.M. to trigger Article 50, which he knows will have it's consequences.
From the 'Sun'
'More than £100 billion was wiped off the FTSE 100 as the index fell more than 7%, while the pound also crashed 8% against the US dollar.'
Just the beginning.
As Norman Tebbit just pointed out, the remain campaign insisted it would happen so it's hardly surprising the markets reacted in that way. They are now recovering.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 24, 2016, 09:38:10 AM
The tollerant & peace loving leftist remain supporters are showing their true violent colours outside Boris Johnsons home.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
The tollerant & peace loving leftist remain supporters are showing their true violent colours outside Boris Johnsons home.
Well, I just saw that too.
Perhaps Boris and his cronies, shouldn't have told all the lies they did in the prelude to the referendum.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 24, 2016, 09:48:17 AM
I see Boris and Michael are now making havering noises to the effect of "let's not be too precipitate in "triggering" Article 50". Come a gain?. They were the ones in an all fired hurry to get out................... &%+((£ With call me Dave resigning B & M really do have the slippery end of the stick now. Wait for the " well we only did it to put ourselves in a better negotiating position to stay in".
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 09:49:01 AM
The tollerant & peace loving leftist remain supporters are showing their true violent colours outside Boris Johnsons home.
Is that who they are? He couldn't speak, could he?
The irony is that the EU must reform or face more exits. They should have listened earlier perhaps. The oldest democracy in the world [us] have said they will not be ruled by unelected bureaucrats.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2016, 09:51:01 AM
cameron said he would trigger article 50 immediately....whoever takes over has made no such promise
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 24, 2016, 09:53:43 AM
cameron said he would trigger article 50 immediately....whoever takes over has made no such promise
Which is why he had to go.
The person in the best position is the one who started it all; Farage. He can trot about going 'Hurrah!, he can criticise those who delay/negotiate and continue to cause problems without having to actually do anything concrete.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 09:59:39 AM
i'm all for brexit as the Eu is on a self destruct course......however voting out is one thing and getting out is another. Around two thirds of MPs support remain and they are teh ones who are going to have to vote for the laws for the exit
All the more reason why we should have a general election as soon as possible. We need MP's and a government in office who can represent the peoples best interests going forward.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2016, 10:08:46 AM
All the more reason why we should have a general election as soon as possible. We need MP's and a government in office who can represent the peoples best interests going forward.
absolutely agree...we need stability asap...and we need MPs who are going to carry out the wishes of the people. The problem then is that MPs will be elected on a constituency basis may not represent the views of the country as a whole
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 10:10:23 AM
All the more reason why we should have a general election as soon as possible. We need MP's and a government in office who can represent the peoples best interests going forward.
Whose best interests would that be ?
Some have suggested Theresa May as a new PM, as the alternatives such as Gove and Johnson would be derided.
It is clear Labour voters who voted for leaving en masse , could be viewed as the Turkeys voting for Christmas, once they realize that EU laws protecting their employment rights will be removed.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 24, 2016, 10:27:33 AM
Stewart Lee on UKIP.
It's an old clip, but one of my favourites.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HMhWB95ldQ
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2016, 10:33:47 AM
Some have suggested Theresa May as a new PM, as the alternatives such as Gove and Johnson would be derided.
It is clear Labour voters who voted for leaving en masse , could be viewed as the Turkeys voting for Christmas, once they realize that EU laws protecting their employment rights will be removed.
you are very insulting to labour voters
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 10:43:53 AM
I think G-Unit he passed the buck to his successor, as he was not prepared to be the P.M. to trigger Article 50, which he knows will have it's consequences.
From the 'Sun'
'More than £100 billion was wiped off the FTSE 100 as the index fell more than 7%, while the pound also crashed 8% against the US dollar.'
Just the beginning.
A great opportunity to pick up some cheap stocks. 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 10:46:56 AM
Brexit won because every vote counted. In General Elections they don't. Perhaps we would have very different governments if our General Elections were more reflective of majority votes, rather than majority constituencies.
General Election: Votes v Seats
Green 1.2M votes, 1 seat
Ukip 3.8M votes, 1 seat.
Lib Dems 2.4M votes, eight seats.
SNP 1.5M votes, 56 seats.
Labour 9.2M votes, 229 seats
Conservatives 11.M votes 325 seats
If you take out every voter who don't even live in the UK and the nationalists with their own agenda in N Ireland and Scotland then the victory is even more sweeter. Farage thought he had lost as did Johnson even before the first vote was counted.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 10:54:00 AM
It is an irony now that the chief leaders of Brexit will have to live up to their promises.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 10:56:57 AM
Some have suggested Theresa May as a new PM, as the alternatives such as Gove and Johnson would be derided.
It is clear Labour voters who voted for leaving en masse , could be viewed as the Turkeys voting for Christmas, once they realize that EU laws protecting their employment rights will be removed.
Not at all Stephen. Jeremy Corbin should resign too now if he has any sense.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2016, 10:57:21 AM
Some have suggested Theresa May as a new PM, as the alternatives such as Gove and Johnson would be derided.
It is clear Labour voters who voted for leaving en masse , could be viewed as the Turkeys voting for Christmas, once they realize that EU laws protecting their employment rights will be removed.
Why are you assuming that all those who vote Labour are in need of employment laws to protect them?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 11:21:06 AM
Tell me dave, do you want fair and enforceable employment rights for your children ?
Or are you content to have all the EU ones removed, so that employers can rule the roost ?
I want to see jobs for my children ...and the country not over run by eastern europeans who will drive wages down.. I want businesses to stay in the UK...not relocate to eastern europe where expenses are cheaper
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 24, 2016, 11:40:44 AM
G' Morning Little Britain
? Soon to become little England as Scotland and maybe N Ireland leave us ?
I hope that I am wrong
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 11:46:00 AM
Surely you are in favour of employees having rights in work. 8)-)))
Rather a pompous generalisation Stephen imo. Not all Labour voters are employees.
I am in favour of workers rights, which they had in this country before the EU existed; largely due to their own efforts. I think people value things more if they achieve them by their own efforts rather than having them handed down to them.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 24, 2016, 11:47:30 AM
Rather a pompous generalisation Stephen imo. Not all Labour voters are employees.
I am in favour of workers rights, which they had in this country before the EU existed; largely due to their own efforts. I think people value things more if they achieve them by their own efforts rather than having them handed down to them.
I do not consider I am being pompous.
Achieve those rights by their own actions G-Unit ?
It was the Unions who did that, and whose power has now been reduced by the last three Governments.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 11:53:56 AM
I want to see jobs for my children ...and the country not over run by eastern europeans who will drive wages down.. I want businesses to stay in the UK...not relocate to eastern europe where expenses are cheaper
They will re-locate.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 11:55:33 AM
? Soon to become little England as Scotland and maybe N Ireland leave us ?
I hope that I am wrong
I'm sure you are. Scotland had their chance to leave and didn't take it. Are you imagining Northern Ireland going it alone or joining Eire? Dream on Sadie.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 11:57:32 AM
Sturgeon has now announced the possibility of a second Scottish referendum.
If I heard correctly from a radio broadcast, the French President has asked the UK to leave the EU a.s.a.p.
Also, if I heard correctly, he has threatened that English Border Controls in Calais will be closed.
Meanwhile Gove and Johnson in their interviews, said I believe, that there was no rush to implement Article 50.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 12:14:56 PM
Achieve those rights by their own actions G-Unit ?
It was the Unions who did that, and whose power has now been reduced by the last three Governments.
Union formed by the workers with leaders elected by the workers and with the aim of furthering worker's interests. Had they been able to achieve similar structures to those in Germany they may have been able to survive and protect our manufacturing industries.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 12:17:55 PM
Please can we move the goal posts, it's not fair, I want my mummy 8)><( 8)><(
Sounds like the SNP who will keep promoting a referendum on Scottish independence until they get the result they want despite most people in Scotland wanting to stay within the UK. Had they gained independence previously the country would be bankrupt by now but then that is why Sturgeon is crawling up the EU's arse. Truth being they need them for their next bail out!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 12:25:37 PM
Union formed by the workers with leaders elected by the workers and with the aim of furthering worker's interests. Had they been able to achieve similar structures to those in Germany they may have been able to survive and protect our manufacturing industries.
I am well aware of that. However, successive UK governments have been eroding those rights.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 12:27:10 PM
Looking on the bright side it could provide work; anyone fancy a job rebuilding Hadrian's Wall?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 12:28:45 PM
Looking on the bright side it could provide work; anyone fancy a job rebuilding Hadrian's Wall?
I think there a a few gangs of Romanian and Lithuanian bricklayers looking for work.....
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 12:50:37 PM
This shake up was a long time coming. I don't think even Gove, Johnson or Farage thought it would happen going by their comments last night as counting began. The Labour Party leadership has certainly has had a rocket up them with Margaret Hodge MP and others now calling for Corbyn to go.
Not only have the electorate got rid of the EU but they have dumped Cameron and Corbyn too. Who would have thought it?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 24, 2016, 01:00:47 PM
This shake up was a long time coming. I don't think even Gove, Johnson or Farage thought it would happen going by their comments last night as counting began. The Labour Party leadership has certainly has had a rocket up them with Margaret Hodge MP and others now calling for Corbyn to go.
Not only have the electorate got rid of the EU but they have dumped Cameron and Corbyn too. Who would have thought it?
A win win situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-GkwIRbLw8
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 01:53:49 PM
So Spam, would you want Farage in government ?
...and you know what political 'party' he belonged to ?
Mind you he has no problems with Lithuanians.
8(0(* 8)--))
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 24, 2016, 02:10:40 PM
This shake up was a long time coming. I don't think even Gove, Johnson or Farage thought it would happen going by their comments last night as counting began. The Labour Party leadership has certainly has had a rocket up them with Margaret Hodge MP and others now calling for Corbyn to go.
Not only have the electorate got rid of the EU but they have dumped Cameron and Corbyn too. Who would have thought it?
Well not quite. We are left with the little problem of observing their rules and standards if we wish to trade with them CE marking and all that. Then of course not being a member of the EU any manufacturing company trading with them will need to have a quality control system approved by a Brussels NOBO or it's no deal and we will not enough clout to make them relax the requirements. Not when it can sourced from within the EU. Try bunging a Category IV pressure vessel made from Indian or Chinese steel plate into the European Union, now that is a barrel of laughs I can tell you. Ten years time we will probably still be working to "Pressure Equipment Regulations 1999, which brings the Pressure Equipment Directive 97/23/EC into UK law" because having two standards to work to will be pointless and sorting it out will not be top of anyone's priority list. And that's but one. FK how many similar directives we will live with for similar reasons. Imagine how many laws enacting EU directives that will have to be repealed and how many new laws and standards will need to be written. Nah let's save ourselves the hassle and live the present [EU] ones....that will happen for sure.
I won't mention foreign non EU multinationals with head offices in UK because they think the UK is Europe. Well it sure as hell isn't now...................... &%+((£ Interesting times ahead and lots of "fmg I didn't think that would happen" from both sides I bet.. 8(0(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 02:43:11 PM
Well not quite. We are left with the little problem of observing their rules and standards if we wish to trade with them CE marking and all that. Then of course not being a member of the EU any manufacturing company trading with them will need to have a quality control system approved by a Brussels NOBO or it's no deal and we will not enough clout to make them relax the requirements. Not when it can sourced from within the EU. Try bunging a Category IV pressure vessel made from Indian or Chinese steel plate into the European Union, now that is a barrel of laughs I can tell you. Ten years time we will probably still be working to "Pressure Equipment Regulations 1999, which brings the Pressure Equipment Directive 97/23/EC into UK law" because having two standards to work to will be pointless and sorting it out will not be top of anyone's priority list. And that's but one. FK how many similar directives we will live with for similar reasons. Imagine how many laws enacting EU directives that will have to be repealed and how many new laws and standards will need to be written. Nah let's save ourselves the hassle and live the present [EU] ones....that will happen for sure.
I won't mention foreign non EU multinationals with head offices in UK because they think the UK is Europe. Well it sure as hell isn't now...................... &%+((£ Interesting times ahead and lots of "fmg I didn't think that would happen" from both sides I bet.. 8(0(*
Now what will happen if the Multi-Nationals relocate to mainland Europe and/or stop investing in the UK ?
Now there's a tough question to answer.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: scipio_usmc on June 24, 2016, 02:49:13 PM
On a financial program they noted that in March Trump predicted Brexit would succeed.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 24, 2016, 02:56:34 PM
I'm sure you are. Scotland had their chance to leave and didn't take it. Are you imagining Northern Ireland going it alone or joining Eire? Dream on Sadie.
This changes everything as far as Scotland is concerned imo.
They liked the safety of being part of the UK that was * in *, rather than a rather insignificant little island with little power.
I agree NI is a rather different kettle of fish and might flounder rather on its own.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: scipio_usmc on June 24, 2016, 03:23:06 PM
This changes everything as far as Scotland is concerned imo.
They liked the safety of being part of the UK that was * in *, rather than a rather insignificant little island with little power.
I agree NI is a rather different kettle of fish and might flounder rather on its own.
The UK has more political power independent than in the EU. It's military power is of course unchanged because that was always a NATO issue not EU. While Obama is a giant crybaby who insists on getting his way or lashing out (he said if the UK leaves he will put the UK at the back of every line including economic, Trump said the UK deserves our full support as a reliable ally and fortunately Obama will be gone as Brexit is implimented
The UK has more political power independent than in the EU. It's military power is of course unchanged because that was always a NATO issue not EU. While Obama is a giant crybaby who insists on getting his way or lashing out (he said if the UK leaves he will put the UK at the back of every line including economic, Trump said the UK deserves our full support as a reliable ally and fortunately Obama will be gone as Brexit is implimented
This changes everything as far as Scotland is concerned imo.
They liked the safety of being part of the UK that was * in *, rather than a rather insignificant little island with little power.
I agree NI is a rather different kettle of fish and might flounder rather on its own.
I think you underestimate the power and influence of the UK. We have always 'punched above our weight' and we have strong historic links and influence worldwide. We are members of the Commonwealth with 53 other nations and of NATO with 27 other nations.
The future as I saw it was heading towards a United States of Europe, which would have meant we could have been similar to a US state in the end.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 24, 2016, 03:54:42 PM
The UK has more political power independent than in the EU. It's military power is of course unchanged because that was always a NATO issue not EU. While Obama is a giant crybaby who insists on getting his way or lashing out (he said if the UK leaves he will put the UK at the back of every line including economic, Trump said the UK deserves our full support as a reliable ally and fortunately Obama will be gone as Brexit is implimented
Obama is a toothless clown imo. Just watch as US citizens empowered by us Brits vote in Trump, that will really shake the world up. @)(++(*
My gawd, it wont half.
If Trump gets in the US will likely crumble too. What a clown!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 24, 2016, 04:00:39 PM
Next time anyone goes to a garage to buy a European made car don't forget to negotiate the price down. No longer will we have to buy their goods at their prices. 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 24, 2016, 04:03:21 PM
Next time anyone goes to a garage to buy a European made car don't forget to negotiate the price down. No longer will we have to buy their goods at their prices. 8((()*/
We always have negotiated prices down - considerably
And ordered cars in Holland to import
Nothing new there Angelo.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 24, 2016, 04:15:12 PM
Interesting to see that you are applauding the fact that we Brits are now poorer by almost 10%
What ever happened to you to make you so bitter against The Brits ?
How are you more poor? At worst it makes imports or foreign vacations more expensive to you which is just more incentive not to buy imports or vacation abroad. In any event this is bound to be short lived and reverse once sanity is restored.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 04:57:41 PM
Interesting to see that you are applauding the fact that we Brits are now poorer by almost 10%
What ever happened to you to make you so bitter against The Brits ?
I suspect Angelo knows it is only a temporary correction brought about by greedy currency traders. In time we will make it all back and then some.
Sorry scipio, I hadn't read your response to Sadie. It's a real pity that the London elite will have to pay more to cross the Atlantic, my heart bleeds for them....NOT!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: scipio_usmc on June 24, 2016, 05:05:23 PM
If Trump gets in the US will likely crumble too. What a clown!
Trump is the only chance of any improvement Clinton will be as bad as Obama or even worse. Furthermore the integrity of the federal courts will be completely gone. We already have 4 liberal loons on the Supreme Court who have no use for the Constitution whatsoever and simply pretend any portions they don't personally like are nonexistent. She will install several more such justices and the US will be governed by the judges instead of elected officials. Our democracy will be gone.
Conservative judicial philosophy = courts deciding cases based on law enacted through the Constitutional process
Liberal judicial philosophy = deciding cases based on what they believe would be the best outcome for the liberal political agenda.
So for instance since the political liberal agenda is against guns they believe the courts should rule that the 2nd Amendment doesn't exist even though it is in black and white. They believe they have the right to make up anything they feel like- hence making up that the US Constitution contains a right to same gender marriage and abortion though it clearly doesn't.
They believe they have the right to amend the Constitution at will while conservatives believe the Constitution must be amended by passing an Amendment through the Amendment process specified in the Constitution.
Basically you have Democrats unable to get their preferred policies enacted through the political process because they lack the political power to do it. They pack the courts with liberals who illicitly enact such policies through the courts instead. The lower courts are already full of such judges, they make decisions contrary to law daily suggesting they know better than the legislators who Constitutionally are tasked with creating such laws.
This amounts to clear abuses of power. Under the Constitution these judges can and should be impeached. But impeachment requires 2/3 of the Senate to vote for removal. The Democrats in the Senate refuse to remove such judges because they want them to abuse their power to advance the Democrat's agenda. They intentionally want these corrupt judges installed for such purpose.
The judiciary is supposed to be an impartial apolitical branch but the Democrats have politicized it. Our country can't withstand the hack appointments that Hillary Clinton will make to the judiciary and every level of government.
Donald Trump is the only chance of saving us from ruin since no third party candidate stands any chance of being elected. The only third party candidates running are basically insane anyway. We have one former Republican governor who is a pothead and some environmentalist freak neither of whom stand any chance of beating Hillary or Trump. So we are stuck with the choice of either Trump or a corrupt, lying, incompetent Democrat bent on turning the US into an Oligarchy controlled by far left judges.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: scipio_usmc on June 24, 2016, 05:09:16 PM
I suspect Angelo knows it is only a temporary correction brought about by greedy currency traders. In time we will make it all back and then some.
Sorry scipio, I hadn't read your response to Sadie. It's a real pity that the London elite will have to pay more to cross the Atlantic, my heart bleeds for them....NOT!
Don't forget the inverse- this makes it cheaper for someone overseas to vacation in the UK so has the potential to benefit the UK tourism market. I still think it will be short lived though.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 05:34:18 PM
Trump is the only chance of any improvement Clinton will be as bad as Obama or even worse. Furthermore the integrity of the federal courts will be completely gone. We already have 4 liberal loons on the Supreme Court who have no use for the Constitution whatsoever and simply pretend any portions they don't personally like are nonexistent. She will install several more such justices and the US will be governed by the judges instead of elected officials. Our democracy will be gone.
Conservative judicial philosophy = courts deciding cases based on law enacted through the Constitutional process
Liberal judicial philosophy = deciding cases based on what they believe would be the best outcome for the liberal political agenda.
So for instance since the political liberal agenda is against guns they believe the courts should rule that the 2nd Amendment doesn't exist even though it is in black and white. They believe they have the right to make up anything they feel like- hence making up that the US Constitution contains a right to same gender marriage and abortion though it clearly doesn't.
They believe they have the right to amend the Constitution at will while conservatives believe the Constitution must be amended by passing an Amendment through the Amendment process specified in the Constitution.
Basically you have Democrats unable to get their preferred policies enacted through the political process because they lack the political power to do it. They pack the courts with liberals who illicitly enact such policies through the courts instead. The lower courts are already full of such judges, they make decisions contrary to law daily suggesting they know better than the legislators who Constitutionally are tasked with creating such laws.
This amounts to clear abuses of power. Under the Constitution these judges can and should be impeached. But impeachment requires 2/3 of the Senate to vote for removal. The Democrats in the Senate refuse to remove such judges because they want them to abuse their power to advance the Democrat's agenda. They intentionally want these corrupt judges installed for such purpose.
The judiciary is supposed to be an impartial apolitical branch but the Democrats have politicized it. Our country can't withstand the hack appointments that Hillary Clinton will make to the judiciary and every level of government.
Donald Trump is the only chance of saving us from ruin since no third party candidate stands any chance of being elected. The only third party candidates running are basically insane anyway. We have one former Republican governor who is a pothead and some environmentalist freak neither of whom stand any chance of beating Hillary or Trump. So we are stuck with the choice of either Trump or a corrupt, lying, incompetent Democrat bent on turning the US into an Oligarchy controlled by far left judges.
I am quite frankly staggered that you believe Trump is any more than a complete fruitcake.
He is no more than a real estate developer who has gone bankrupt several times.
Clinton can't be trusted either,
So either way the Americans will elect a complete ar##ho## as President.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 24, 2016, 05:36:07 PM
Brexit protests: Hundreds to descend on Parliament to protest Britain’s decision to leave the EU
'Tomorrow lets take to the streets at the Houses of Parliament to peacefully come together and show strength in the face of a decision none of us can truly predict the outcome of,' the organisers urge
Will probably be hijacked by Antifa & the disgruntled libtard students of generation snowflake, who didn't get a trigger warning or a safe space from other peoples opinions & choices.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 05:49:18 PM
Brexit protests: Hundreds to descend on Parliament to protest Britain’s decision to leave the EU
'Tomorrow lets take to the streets at the Houses of Parliament to peacefully come together and show strength in the face of a decision none of us can truly predict the outcome of,' the organisers urge
Will probably be hijacked by Antifa & the disgruntled libtard students of generation snowflake, who didn't get a trigger warning or a safe space from other peoples opinions & choices.
That is a really pathetic comment Spam.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 05:52:05 PM
Brexit protests: Hundreds to descend on Parliament to protest Britain’s decision to leave the EU
'Tomorrow lets take to the streets at the Houses of Parliament to peacefully come together and show strength in the face of a decision none of us can truly predict the outcome of,' the organisers urge
Will probably be hijacked by Antifa & the disgruntled libtard students of generation snowflake, who didn't get a trigger warning or a safe space from other peoples opinions & choices.
London again! @)(++(*
Maybe they don't realise how democracy works since most are probably immigrants. This reform was a long time coming and badly needed, 17½ million agree.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 06:04:19 PM
Maybe they don't realise how democracy works since most are probably immigrants. This reform was a long time coming and badly needed, 17½ million agree.
Just over 16 Million didn't agree and 13 Million didn't vote.
So it wasn't a majority of the eligible voting population, was it John ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 24, 2016, 06:08:02 PM
Just over 16 Million didn't agree and 13 Million didn't vote.
So it wasn't a majority of the eligible voting population, was it John ?
Irrelevant. It was a huge majority however since most of those Nationalists in Scotland and N Ireland voted along political lines and not on the economy. Taking away non UK residents like Gibraltarians who again voted purely out of self interest increases the vote even more.
By the way, why do the residents of Gibraltar even have a say on whether the UK stays or leaves the EU? Many have never even been to the UK.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 06:14:18 PM
Irrelevant. It was a huge majority however since most of those Nationalists in Scotland and N Ireland voted along political lines and not on the economy.
Not irrelevant.
Just the truth.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 06:14:55 PM
Irrelevant. It was a huge majority however since most of those Nationalists in Scotland and N Ireland voted along political lines and not on the economy.
A huge majority ?
I just watched a few people from Hartlepool on Sky News being asked why they voted OUT.
Most of them could not give a coherent reason why, and had no idea what might happen next.
...' it does not have a significant Immigrant population '.
I am quite frankly staggered that you believe Trump is any more than a complete fruitcake.
He is no more than a real estate developer who has gone bankrupt several times.
Clinton can't be trusted either,
So either way the Americans will elect a complete ar##ho## as President.
Trump never went bankrupt. 2 of his thousands of businesses went through reorganization bankruptcy. 1 was the Plaza Hotel and the reorganization resulted in the creditors buying equity in the business. The other was his Trump Entertainment and resorts casino business which went through reorganization 2 times when Trump was the majority owner. While he was the minority owner it went through reorganization several other times that were dictated by others not him.
Despite these reorganizations his net worth increased tremendously since. That is because he had so many other businesses. He took a half million dollar loan and parlayed it into more than $10 billion. If that makes him a clown than I wish I were one because I have nothing remotely near that and have to work harder than he does to earn much less.
Hillary Clinton was broke by her own admission in 2000. How did she become a millionaire? By writing a pathetic book about her political life, giving political speeches to businesses in exchange for influence, inside business dealings from rich donors and friends and by spending Clinton Foundation money. Only 10% of the money actually goes to charity. The other 90% is overhead used by the Clintons and political hacks they employ through their foundation.
We have a choice between a free market guy who wants to reduce economic regulation and someone who wants the only money that can be made to be from politics and the government.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 06:32:06 PM
Trump never went bankrupt. 2 of his thousands of businesses went through reorganization bankruptcy. 1 was the Plaza Hotel and the reorganization resulted in the creditors buying equity in the business. The other was his Trump Entertainment and resorts casino business which went through reorganization 2 times when Trump was the majority owner. While he was the minority owner it went through reorganization several other times that were dictated by others not him.
Despite these reorganizations his net worth increased tremendously since. That is because he had so many other businesses. He took a half million dollar loan and parlayed it into more than $10 billion. If that makes him a clown than I wish I were one because I have nothing remotely near that and have to work harder than he does to earn much less.
Hillary Clinton was broke by her own admission in 2000. How did she become a millionaire? By writing a pathetic book about her political life, giving political speeches to businesses in exchange for influence, inside business dealings from rich donors and friends and by spending Clinton Foundation money. Only 10% of the money actually goes to charity. The other 90% is overhead used by the Clintons and political hacks they employ through their foundation.
We have a choice between a free market guy who wants to reduce economic regulation and someone who wants the only money that can be made to be from politics and the government.
The Clinton's receive a fortune in donations to their Foundation, much of it from the Chinese. Says it all really.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: scipio_usmc on June 24, 2016, 06:37:27 PM
Oh by the way John, what is going to happen to all the European citizens already in this country, and those UK citizens living and working in Europe ?
As long as they don't commit crimes and have a legal means of support then obviously they will be able to stay.
Objective experts tend to think that the economy will take off and thus wages in the UK will rise and unemployment decrease as a result.
The ones who were biased in favor of socialism and remaining tend to be the ones predicting doomsday scenarios. Mostly it was to try to scare people into voting to stay. Maybe now they will shut their traps or better yet start to provide some objective analysis but this is wishful thinking.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 24, 2016, 06:37:56 PM
How are you more poor? At worst it makes imports or foreign vacations more expensive to you which is just more incentive not to buy imports or vacation abroad. In any event this is bound to be short lived and reverse once sanity is restored.
Angelos words ... not mine
Quote
The British pound is down almost 10% against the US dollar, interesting times. 8@??)(
Ask him.
I was just commenting on the fact that he showed pleasure that Brits were losing out 10%
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 06:38:08 PM
Trump never went bankrupt. 2 of his thousands of businesses went through reorganization bankruptcy. 1 was the Plaza Hotel and the reorganization resulted in the creditors buying equity in the business. The other was his Trump Entertainment and resorts casino business which went through reorganization 2 times when Trump was the majority owner. While he was the minority owner it went through reorganization several other times that were dictated by others not him.
Despite these reorganizations his net worth increased tremendously since. That is because he had so many other businesses. He took a half million dollar loan and parlayed it into more than $10 billion. If that makes him a clown than I wish I were one because I have nothing remotely near that and have to work harder than he does to earn much less.
Hillary Clinton was broke by her own admission in 2000. How did she become a millionaire? By writing a pathetic book about her political life, giving political speeches to businesses in exchange for influence, inside business dealings from rich donors and friends and by spending Clinton Foundation money. Only 10% of the money actually goes to charity. The other 90% is overhead used by the Clintons and political hacks they employ through their foundation.
We have a choice between a free market guy who wants to reduce economic regulation and someone who wants the only money that can be made to be from politics and the government.
They were his businesses.
Don't give excuses, it won't wash.
..and I most certainly would not buy a used car from either Trump or Clinton.
I presume you know what trump means in old fashioned English ? *&*%£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 06:40:14 PM
As long as they don't commit crimes and have a legal means of support then obviously they will be able to stay.
Objective experts tend to think that the economy will take off and thus wages in the UK will rise and unemployment decrease as a result.
The ones who were biased in favor of socialism and remaining tend to be the ones predicting doomsday scenarios. Mostly it was to try to scare people into voting to stay. Maybe now they will shut their traps or better yet start to provide some objective analysis but this is wishful thinking.
The clear scare tactics were directed by Brexit.
No doubt about that.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 06:42:49 PM
Just chill stephen, enjoy Independence day & be proud to be British.
You mean English, don't you? Just like our football team do time & time again, we have found a way to press the self-destruct button in a commanding position but this time we will never feature in the tournament again.
I'm gutted, truly gutted.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 06:44:21 PM
I am quite frankly staggered that you believe Trump is any more than a complete fruitcake.
He is no more than a real estate developer who has gone bankrupt several times.
Clinton can't be trusted either,
So either way the Americans will elect a complete ar##ho## as President.
Am just back from a mercy mission to Canada ... and met loads of well educated people there whose almost first words were "What do the Brits think of Trump?"
Like me and stephen they were absolutely gobsmacked that a man like Trump might be elected president of the USAt.
I had no idea that suckers (sorry) over here had fallen for his clap trap
Gawd help America and Gawd help the world if he is made President.
Especially ... Gawd help little Britain if he is our main ally
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 24, 2016, 06:50:30 PM
Am just back from a mercy mission to Canada ... and met loads of well educated people there whose almost first words were "What do the Brits think of Trump?"
Like me and stephen they were absolutely gobsmacked that a man like Trump might be elected president of the USAt.
I had no idea that suckers (sorry) over here had fallen for his clap trap
Gawd help America and Gawd help the world if he is made President.
Especially ... Gawd help little Britain if he is our main ally
Well said Sadie. 8@??)( 8@??)(
I note, that Sky, the BBC or ITV did not cover his trip to Scotland today.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: scipio_usmc on June 24, 2016, 06:51:04 PM
The Clinton's receive a fortune in donations to their Foundation, much of it from the Chinese. Says it all really.
Oh I left out Hillary has to date paid herself $250,000 salary from her campaign fund. We have a stupid law that permits candidates to pay themselves a salary so long as they are not employed by the government while running the only limit is the amount can't be greater than the salary of the post being run for.
Trump is funding his own campaign so naturally doesn't take a salary. The lying media made a big deal that his campaign is buying products from Trump family companies claiming this is self-dealing. They ignore that by law his companies cannot give anything to his campaign for free thus by law his campaign must pay for everything from an airline ride to a bottle of water.
All the political cronies Hillary has relied on she paid using Clinton Foundation funds. They get money from the foundation to do work for her that has nothing to do with charity. Obama refused to allow her to hire Blumenthal at the State Department but she still used him as an advisor anyway and simply paid him through the Clinton foundation. Huma Abedin was receiving 3 paychecks simultaneously- from the State department, the Clinton Foundation and from a Clinton supporter.
The Clinton Foundation is a huge illegal slush fund operation that she should be in jail over but isn't because Obama is so corrupt. Every government Department is controlled by Democratic hacks who use such departments against political opponents. He is worse than Nixon but there is no Independent Prosecutor law on the books anymore and his Justice Department is one of the departments controlled by a political hack so till he is gone nothing can happen.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 24, 2016, 06:51:56 PM
Besides I am observing the how Brexit supporters view the world.
Quite fascinating.
Brexit opponents- favor regulation and socialism, favor international governance as opposed to sovereign rule from home, favor welfare policies and no borders, favor banking and trade policies that aid international businesses more than local businesses and workers
When you add these up you get someone favoring being bankrupted to provide aid to unlimited emigrants and international businesses.
Those in favor of Brexit see the problems with the above.
There are several parallels between such and Obama/Clinton v Trump.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 06:59:46 PM
You're doing that quite nicely all on your own. There is no point in crying over spilt milk, the referendum has been decided.
Cameron will soon be history as will Corbyn and if Sturgeon isn't careful she could be next if Scots turn against her. The SNP are steadily losing ground and Sturgeon knows it.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 07:01:59 PM
You mean English, don't you? Just like our football team do time & time again, we have found a way to press the self-destruct button in a commanding position but this time we will never feature in the tournament again.
I'm gutted, truly gutted.
Well said Misty 8@??)(
Not only have we ruined ourselves but we will have lost all our friends in Europe.
Sadly the rest of the world will go with the more powerful Europe
We have scored an own goal and dropped down to the Bottom Division. All because of small mindedness ... and dare I say it. Being against immigrants at any cost. Racist behaviour.
Anyway the deed is done. Now we must try and climb back up again.
I doubt we ever will. I hope that I am wrong.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 24, 2016, 07:04:06 PM
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 24, 2016, 07:05:04 PM
I see in the news that the EU bosses are demanding that withdrawal negotiations start immediately, re uncertainty issues.
That encapsulates my issue with the EU. Cameron indicates a process by which he will be replaced as PM by October, and the new PM will handle the withdrawal. EU attempts to dictate an immediate start.
As I explained earlier, I am losing a shedload of money over this, about £30k if it remains this way for long, but I would rather the UK has control over UK matters, not politicians in Brussels.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 24, 2016, 07:05:39 PM
I see in the news that the EU bosses are demanding that withdrawal negotiations start immediately, re uncertainty issues.
That encapsulates my issue with the EU. Cameron indicates a process by which he will be replaced as PM by October, and the new PM will handle the withdrawal. EU attempts to dictate an immediate start.
As I explained earlier, I am losing a shedload of money over this, about £30k if it remains this way for long, but I would rather the UK has control over UK matters, not politicians in Brussels.
The UK had to ratify any EU laws in parliament.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 24, 2016, 07:07:51 PM
Oh I left out Hillary has to date paid herself $250,000 salary from her campaign fund. We have a stupid law that permits candidates to pay themselves a salary so long as they are not employed by the government while running the only limit is the amount can't be greater than the salary of the post being run for.
Trump is funding his own campaign so naturally doesn't take a salary. The lying media made a big deal that his campaign is buying products from Trump family companies claiming this is self-dealing. They ignore that by law his companies cannot give anything to his campaign for free thus by law his campaign must pay for everything from an airline ride to a bottle of water.
All the political cronies Hillary has relied on she paid using Clinton Foundation funds. They get money from the foundation to do work for her that has nothing to do with charity. Obama refused to allow her to hire Blumenthal at the State Department but she still used him as an advisor anyway and simply paid him through the Clinton foundation. Huma Abedin was receiving 3 paychecks simultaneously- from the State department, the Clinton Foundation and from a Clinton supporter.
The Clinton Foundation is a huge illegal slush fund operation that she should be in jail over but isn't because Obama is so corrupt. Every government Department is controlled by Democratic hacks who use such departments against political opponents. He is worse than Nixon but there is no Independent Prosecutor law on the books anymore and his Justice Department is one of the departments controlled by a political hack so till he is gone nothing can happen.
Hilary Clinton is driven by greed and the lust for power. If she had any self respect she would have dumped Billy the strayer long ago but she won't since he is too useful to her in her pursuit to be the first female President.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 24, 2016, 07:17:25 PM
All the small business men withy real British Companies are worried sick.
At a whim the Chinese, Indian, German etc owners of the larger companies can close them down
What a devastating catastrophy for our country
For a nation that built an Empire, on which the sun never set, by knocking seven bells out the wild life in far away places exploiting them and nicking anything that wasn't bolted down UK sure went soft.
That's why UK couldn't hack it in Europe. It got religion and expected fair play. Unless some one shoves a rod of iron up yer backs the big Greek kids will take yer marbles away @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 07:18:51 PM
The decision made will have ramifications on people's lives for decades.
What I do note is an apparent lack of basic economic knowledge by those supporting Brexit.
That applies to both sides. The #remain scaremongering was despicable, they had nothing to offer but it is over now so irrelevant.
The first thing I want to see are new laws to deal with illegal immigrants and those who overstay their welcome. This nanny State mentality has got to end! The UK is a charitable country but there are limits.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 07:23:51 PM
Hilary Clinton is driven by greed and the lust for power. If she had any self respect she would have dumped Billy the strayer long ago but she won't since he is too useful to her in her pursuit to be the first female President.
So is Trump.
He lives up to another word to describe his name.
IMHO naturally.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 07:25:16 PM
That applies to both sides. The #remain scaremongering was despicable, they had nothing to offer but it is over now so irrelevant.
The first thing I want to see are new laws to deal with illegal immigrants and those who overstay their welcome. This nanny State mentality has got to end! The UK is a charitable country but there are limits.
What about the legal immigrants ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 07:27:42 PM
Untrue. #Remain threatened that our economy, our security and our jobs would be at risk. Just a load of hot air, it will be business as usual come Monday.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 07:28:51 PM
Untrue. #Remain threatened that our economy, our security and our jobs would be at risk. Just a load of hot air, it will be business as usual come Monday.
We shall see.
It will go well beyond Monday.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 07:30:38 PM
Not only have we ruined ourselves but we will have lost all our friends in Europe.
Sadly the rest of the world will go with the more powerful Europe
We have scored an own goal and dropped down to the Bottom Division. All because of small mindedness ... and dare I say it. Being against immigrants at any cost. Racist behaviour.
Anyway the deed is done. Now we must try and climb back up again.
I doubt we ever will. I hope that I am wrong.
It is a fallacy that the EU has any real power Sadie. It is a toothless entity with no ability to take anyone on. Didn't you notice how Putin walked all over the EU during the Crimea and Ukraine crisis.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 07:37:37 PM
The mainstream media are otherwise occupied south of the border today...London London London. If you had watched STV or ITV Border you would have seen The Donald. One must admit, he picked the right day to visit his investments.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 24, 2016, 07:48:36 PM
For a nation that built an Empire, on which the sun never set, by knocking seven bells out the wild life in far away places exploiting them and nicking anything that wasn't bolted down UK sure went soft.
That's why UK couldn't hack it in Europe. It got religion and expected fair play. Unless some one shoves a rod of iron up yer backs the big Greek kids will take yer marbles away @)(++(*
Talking of Greece, watch this space for the next news!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 24, 2016, 07:57:39 PM
Just typed what is the favourite takeaway food on google. 8**8:/:
On a Daily Mirror site, pizza is number 1.
Fish 'n Chips was not in the top ten.
It's largely irrelevant in the scope of things, but I remember that cod was getting scarcer and scarcer in the UK before we moved. Yet here in Portugal bacalau (cod) is plentiful.
Does this mean the price of cod and chips will fall in the UK, while Portugal will see a reduction in its supply of bacalau?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 08:16:47 PM
It's largely irrelevant in the scope of things, but I remember that cod was getting scarcer and scarcer in the UK before we moved. Yet here in Portugal bacalau (cod) is plentiful.
Does this mean the price of cod and chips will fall in the UK, while Portugal will see a reduction in its supply of bacalau?
Yes Shining, it was called over fishing.
As to prices, it is a scarce resource.
Prices will still be high, unless you want to try the Vietnamese sustitute.
I have seen 'cod' 'n chips at local takeaways for £2.00.
Needless to say I didn't bother.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 08:26:34 PM
Not only have we ruined ourselves but we will have lost all our friends in Europe.
Sadly the rest of the world will go with the more powerful Europe
We have scored an own goal and dropped down to the Bottom Division. All because of small mindedness ... and dare I say it. Being against immigrants at any cost. Racist behaviour.
Anyway the deed is done. Now we must try and climb back up again.
I doubt we ever will. I hope that I am wrong.
I would love to know who our European friends were that we have lost. We may not be popular with the ruling classes but ordinary European citizens now want their own referendums. Has 'little' Britain once again set an example that others want to follow?
The 'rest of the world' may find there is no unified Europe to 'go along with' if other countries follow our lead.
I have noticed some small mindedness in UK people. Their denigration of the Portuguese authorities and deification of our Metropolitan police force has been quite disgraceful in my opinion. I think we may have lost friends in Portugal after the behaviour of our media towards them.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 24, 2016, 08:28:57 PM
It's largely irrelevant in the scope of things, but I remember that cod was getting scarcer and scarcer in the UK before we moved. Yet here in Portugal bacalau (cod) is plentiful.
Does this mean the price of cod and chips will fall in the UK, while Portugal will see a reduction in its supply of bacalau?
When that nice Mr Heath was PM, between sailing and playing the piano, there was a wing ding with Iceland labelled in the press as "The Cod War". When it was over that same nice Mr Heath announced he was now looking forward to a long cod peace.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 08:33:56 PM
When that nice Mr Heath was PM, between sailing and playing the piano, there was a wing ding with Iceland labelled in the press as "The Cod War". When it was over that same nice Mr Heath announced he was now looking forward to a long cod peace.
Perhaps we can look forward to the Sequel.......
Revenge of the Cod. 8)--))
May the 'tartare' sauce be with you , always. *&*%£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 24, 2016, 08:39:01 PM
You obviously don't realise that the UK pays for them and has always done so. If you knew anything about the subject you would know that the subdidies which you refer to are intended to keep the cost of farm produce down to you and other consumers.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 24, 2016, 08:54:35 PM
In the UK in Cornwall in particular Atlantic Pollock is sold as Pollock and has been for 40 odd years as I know to. Dunno about Pacific Pollock.
Vietnamese!? %56& Pollock is native to and fished in the North Atlantic and substituted for cod in dodgy Fish & Chip shops. There was a brouhaha about in the past, if I remember correctly.
You obviously don't realise that the UK pays for them and has always done so. If you knew anything about the subject you would know that the subdidies which you refer to are intended to keep the cost down to you and other consumers.
For goodness sake Angelo, it isn't just the UK paying for subsidies.
It's all about preventing over production after the food mountains, and farmers in the UK getting subsidies to leave their fields fallow, and not just for crop rotation.
Likewise, smaller farmers have been kept in business, in France, who would have gone out of business.
Then we also have the large supermarket chains in this country and elsewhere giving the squeeze on prices paid to farmers, and that is why many have gone to the wall, nothing to do with the EU. More, consumer demand for cheap food.
I could go even further.
So I do know a bit about economics.
It seems the same is not true for others.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 24, 2016, 09:10:16 PM
Vietnamese!? %56& Pollock is native to and fished in the North Atlantic and substituted for cod in dodgy Fish & Chip shops. There was a brouhaha about in the past, if I remember correctly.
Well with all this EU regulation crap out the way we can look forward to Cumberland Sausage from Essex; Melton Mowbray Pork Pies from Cleckheaton, Stilton Cheese from Fakenham and genuine English Toulouse Snorkers...Champagne from the Moorlands sounds a good idea too.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 24, 2016, 09:14:18 PM
For goodness sake Angelo, it isn't just the UK paying for subsidies.
It's all about preventing over production after the food mountains, and farmers in the UK getting subsidies to leave their fields fallow, and not just for crop rotation.
Likewise, smaller farmers have been kept in business, in France, who would have gone out of business.
Then we also have the large supermarket chains in this country and elsewhere giving the squeeze on prices paid to farmers, and that is why many have gone to the wall, nothing to do with the EU. More, consumer demand for cheap food.
I could go even further.
So I do know a bit about economics.
It seems the same is not true for others.
You really must keep up Stephen. My cousin farms and he told me all about these schemes. There is no set aside any more, another EU scheme which went belly up.
The reason so many farmers have gone bust is because the EU allows heavily subsidised French beef, milk and butter to be dumped on the UK market.
The EU changed the rules and created so much red tape that small farmers just can't cope with the nonsense.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 24, 2016, 09:20:37 PM
Well with all this EU regulation crap out the way we can look forward to Cumberland Sausage from Essex; Melton Mowbray Pork Pies from Cleckheaton, Stilton Cheese from Fakenham and genuine English Toulouse Snorkers...Champagne from the Moorlands sounds a good idea too.
Suppliers on the European mainland will be crapping themselves in case UK government bring in our own controls. Time we started eating our own fish, lamb, beef, pork, chicken etc.. We don't need Turkeys from God knows where in eastern Europe.
Must go and enjoy my genuine 100% Chinese curry.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 24, 2016, 09:23:49 PM
You really must keep up Stephen. My cousin farms and he told me all about these schemes. There is no set aside any more, another EU scheme which went belly up.
...and the rest ?
and have we been the only country paying subsidies to farms ?
That intrigues me. For years we have heard that we get taxed to death to support EU farm subsidies.
What do you think has been happening? Please enlighten us from a farmer's viewpoint.
Its very simple, our taxes are being sent to Irish farmers to prop up their economy whilst Ulster farmers go bankrupt.
As I predicted earlier, it looks like a General Election within months so that the British people can choose who will take us forward. My fear is that the momentum will be lost in the political infighting which is sure to occur.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 24, 2016, 09:48:37 PM
It's all fine. This morning we had Farage saying the "£350m a week to the NHS" promise was a mistake. Oops.
And Hannan confirms that anyone who thought brexit would stop EU immigration is going to disappointed.
Ok.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2016, 09:52:41 PM
Reality check......article 50 has NOT been triggered as promised. Withdrawl will take several years and who knows what political and economic changes will occur in this time to affect the decision. The govt will not simply withdraw because one third of the electorate voted for it. The decision will be made on what is best for the UK. What we do know is that we are in a much stronger negotiating position than we were when Cameron last tried. Will we leave the EU ?....I don't think that decision has or can be made at the moment
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 24, 2016, 10:00:34 PM
Reality check......article 50 has NOT been triggered as promised. Withdrawl will take several years and who knows what political and economic changes will occur in this time to affect the decision. The govt will not simply withdraw because one third of the electorate voted for it. The decision will be made on what is best for the UK. What we do know is that we are in a much stronger negotiating position than we were when Cameron last tried. Will we leave the EU ?....I don't think that decision has or can be made at the moment
so you think every party will select only eurosceptic MPs for the next election and all those that support remain will be sacked
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2016, 10:16:15 PM
from the Guardian today......https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/brexit-won-vote-remain-eu-article-50-lisbon-treaty-referendum-david-cameron
The most significant announcement David Cameron made this morning was not that he plans to resign in October. It was that he will not be triggering article 50 of the Lisbon treaty in the meantime. When to “start the formal and legal process of leaving the EU” would be a matter for the new prime minister, he said.
After this vote the UK is diminished, our politics poisoned Gary Younge Gary Younge Read more So by sacrificing his own job, Cameron has bought Britain three months’ breathing space. He had told MPs in February that, in the event of a Brexit vote, the British people would “rightly expect” him to trigger article 50 “straight away”.
In the meantime, everything continues exactly as before. The referendum vote has immense political implications but no direct legal effect. We remain in the EU.
Of course, the new prime minister will be expected to respect the result of the referendum and, in due course, to notify the European council – which includes all EU heads of state or government – of the UK’s intention to withdraw from the EU under article 50. But we now have three months in which EU leaders can devise some sort of associate membership for the UK that just might be enough to stop that happening.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 24, 2016, 10:16:23 PM
With an election looming it will be whoever can give guarantees on these things that will carry the vote.
They were two main planks of the brexit argument. When those who voted leave in hope find the NHS is no better funded and immigrants are still nicking their jobs in a few months time they will be a bit cross.
On article 50, I think he has been wise.
My prediction? After a period of reflection we will remain in the EEA. Cost will be around what we were paying. Still have free movement of people. We just won't have representation or votes.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 24, 2016, 10:20:45 PM
They were two main planks of the brexit argument. When those who voted leave in hope find the NHS is no better funded and immigrants are still nicking their jobs in a few months time they will be a bit cross.
On article 50, I think he has been wise.
My prediction? After a period of reflection we will remain in the EEA. Cost will be around what we were paying. Still have free movement of people. We just won't have representation or votes.
You wish. @)(++(*
Out means out and any new PM will be very aware of that. It would be an extremely silly person who would go against the will of the majority. I can see Cameron gone within weeks as the pressure builds for leadership.
Later we will see Lord Cameron in his gowns.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2016, 10:20:54 PM
From the same article
Before the referendum result was declared, most MPs had opposed Brexit. Some of them will now feel it is their duty to give effect to the majority decision of the voters. But since it will be at least three months and probably a lot longer before the new prime minister is in a position to trigger article 50, my own view is that the government will require, at the very least, a majority vote in the House of Commons before proceeding.
The Cameron Conservatives era is over. The party now belongs to the Brexiters Matthew d'Ancona Matthew d'Ancona Read more One might have argued that a kamikaze prime minister could have triggered article 50 immediately after the referendum result was declared, using his prerogative powers. Those powers are used to sign treaties but not, I would argue, to put them into effect in the UK. In any event, there is a growing constitutional convention that prerogative powers are subject to parliamentary approval, as we saw with the Commons vote in August 2013 against air strikes on Syria.
In red is what I predicted last week
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 24, 2016, 10:22:03 PM
Reality check......article 50 has NOT been triggered as promised. Withdrawl will take several years and who knows what political and economic changes will occur in this time to affect the decision. The govt will not simply withdraw because one third of the electorate voted for it. The decision will be made on what is best for the UK. What we do know is that we are in a much stronger negotiating position than we were when Cameron last tried. Will we leave the EU ?....I don't think that decision has or can be made at the moment
True and a referendum is not legally binding.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 24, 2016, 10:30:21 PM
Out means out and any new PM will be very aware of that. It would be an extremely silly person who would go against the will of the majority. I can see Cameron gone within weeks as the pressure builds for leadership.
Later we will see Lord Cameron in his gowns.
Remaining in the EEA means leaving the EU but continuing to trade in the free trade area. And assumes we are going to continue to trade with the EU.
And I predict Cameron will be gone by the end of September. ?{)(**
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 24, 2016, 11:03:12 PM
what was the point of hauling the population ,and everything it could cause and has caused, through it all then, one wonders if there is no intention of severing the country if the vote went that way
Also someone somewhere when deciding 16 yr olds couldnt vote was very lapse, if the reporters are right they mostly voted remain, they could have swung it for cameron and the remainers
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 24, 2016, 11:22:15 PM
what was the point of hauling the population ,and everything it could cause and has caused, through it all then, one wonders if there is no intention of severing the country if the vote went that way
Also someone somewhere when deciding 16 yr olds couldnt vote was very lapse, if the reporters are right they mostly voted remain, they could have swung it for cameron and the remainers
When the dust has settled, the populace realise the "exiters" sold them a pup* and Theresa May is PM...... &%+((£ *I see the mayor of Calais is making noises about us having our border and camp back that they have been minding for us for the past few years ! Fuel prices up because sterling took a clogging against the dollar. Nigel Farage "the £350MM was a mistake".
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 24, 2016, 11:25:28 PM
So legal immigrants should now be sent back? Which ones? Surely not all? That might be quite a few million people. If they are legal and have done nothng wrong why deport them? Where to start? Maybe there should be a definition of legal immigrant that is ok and one that isnt?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 24, 2016, 11:31:07 PM
So legal immigrants should now be sent back? Which ones? Surely not all? That might be quite a few million people. If they are legal and have done nothng wrong why deport them? Where to start? Maybe there should be a definition of legal immigrant that is ok and one that isnt?
Most of us come from families that immigrated into the UK. Maybe milleniums ago, but we are mainly mongrels from immigrants. Make no doubt about it
I am with mercury on this one.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 24, 2016, 11:38:50 PM
When the dust has settled, the populace realise the "exiters" sold them a pup* and Theresa May is PM...... &%+((£ *I see the mayor of Calais is making noises about us having our border and camp back that they have been minding for us for the past few years ! Fuel prices up because sterling took a clogging against the dollar. Nigel Farage "the £350MM was a mistake".
I believe (could be wrong) alot of people voting did not understand what the eu was all about, ie what they were actually voting for, they voted on the basis of immgration, patriotism, not liking the tories and their actions in the last six years, labour not delivering for years. etc, it wasnt because half the voters are right wing racists
The debate was too short and run by all the wrong people in the main with their drama queen performances
It was a combnation of a protest vote and a leap of faith, which aint a bad thing sometimes, where it will end is anyones guess
Tomorrow is another day now, and as they say its always alright on the night
Idealistic? Maybe but better than getting depressed about things you fear
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 24, 2016, 11:43:16 PM
As in most democracies voters in the UK have been less and less interested in politics and voting. That's mostly because they are disillusioned with politicians. Cameron made a massive error when he agreed to this referendum and I think he made it because he thought a Parliamentary majority meant support. It doesn't, because in some areas there's no point in voting because everyone knows which party will win. That's yet another example of just how out of touch with reality politicians are.
However, the referendum did happen and we have the result. If any attempt is made to pretend it was all Cameron's fault and it ''doesn't count there will be outrage. If the Prime Minister can't carry out his promises why bother having one? I think the English and Welsh people in particular have made it quite clear what they want. Any politicians who attempt to persuade them that they 'know better' will get short shrift. The people have been hearing that for a long time and many are sick of it in my opinion.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 24, 2016, 11:45:57 PM
Most of us come from families that immigrated into the UK. Maybe milleniums ago, but we are mainly mongrels from immigrants. Make no doubt about it
I am with mercury on this one.
Yes but we are not talking milleniums here otherwise the term immigrant would cease to be in the dictionary
Im seeking the criteria of good person bad person to be allowed to live and work in uk rather than deported because they are just an immigrant
There is no way this country can go back to the 40s and 50s without irreparable damage
Eta obviously there are reasons some people dont like some immigrants and there are valid ones Im sure, Ive had them, but deporting all non uk born people doesnt register as remotely plausible
I reckon it was a throwaway remark/point or maybe some point was being made about somethng and i took it a different way
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 24, 2016, 11:54:16 PM
So legal immigrants should now be sent back? Which ones? Surely not all? That might be quite a few million people. If they are legal and have done nothng wrong why deport them? Where to start? Maybe there should be a definition of legal immigrant that is ok and one that isnt?
All them bleedin' 'ungarians wot cum over 'ere in 1956 bonkin' our birds an' shopliftin, an' tattooin' 'emselves wiv school pens an' ink can go back now it is safe for 'em to do so. (that is poor taste in irony before someone has a benny 8(0(* )
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 25, 2016, 12:02:06 AM
All them bleedin' 'ungarians wot cum over 'ere in 1956 bonkin' our birds an' shopliftin, an' tattooin' 'emselves wiv school pens an' ink can go back now it is safe for 'em to do so. (that is poor taste in irony before someone has a benny 8(0(* )
Snigger
Decades later after thatcher and successive govts screwed the country others (generally the poor and immigrants)are still getting the blame
Better get your holy water out and splash it all over mays online pics
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 12:13:52 AM
As in most democracies voters in the UK have been less and less interested in politics and voting. That's mostly because they are disillusioned with politicians. Cameron made a massive error when he agreed to this referendum and I think he made it because he thought a Parliamentary majority meant support. It doesn't, because in some areas there's no point in voting because everyone knows which party will win. That's yet another example of just how out of touch with reality politicians are.
However, the referendum did happen and we have the result. If any attempt is made to pretend it was all Cameron's fault and it ''doesn't count there will be outrage. If the Prime Minister can't carry out his promises why bother having one? I think the English and Welsh people in particular have made it quite clear what they want. Any politicians who attempt to persuade them that they 'know better' will get short shrift. The people have been hearing that for a long time and many are sick of it in my opinion.
Cameron needed to counter both UKIP & the eurosceptics in the party.....
Cameron struggles to prevent Tories ‘banging on about Europe’
Tory strategists fear ill-discipline will cost votes
May 13, 2013
David Cameron delivered a sobering lecture to the Tory conference in 2006 on why the party kept losing elections. “Instead of talking about the things that most people care about, we talked about what we cared about most,” he said.
“While parents worried about childcare, getting the kids to school, balancing work and family life, we were banging on about Europe.”
Its very simple, our taxes are being sent to Irish farmers to prop up their economy whilst Ulster farmers go bankrupt.
As I predicted earlier, it looks like a General Election within months so that the British people can choose who will take us forward. My fear is that the momentum will be lost in the political infighting which is sure to occur.
May I ask you roughly where your farm is?
I am not asking you to nail it to a specific locality, just a general region.
From what you have said, I get the impression N Ireland. If this is so, since I also get the impression that N Ireland in the main voted to remain, so how did that come about and what should now be done about it, if anything.
On to a much lesser point, N Ireland v Wales in Euro 2016. I am struggling to come up with a special menu for this. Wales v England was hard enough to get beyond Welsh lamb and leeks. On the Ulster side, I am doubly struggling, perhaps because it is difficult to separate N Irish recipes from Republic of Ireland recipes. Suggestions are welcome.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 12:36:24 AM
Boris Johnson
The Rise Of The Irresistable.
(Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVq7ZGlvapM
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 25, 2016, 01:01:37 AM
Boris Johnson is not fit to be prime minister He thinks the world politics is a pantomime Well maybe hes right sometimes.... until you count the dead or any victim then its dead serious and clowns dont do serious do they? Maybe they do, life is such a vast and rich tapestry we are aleays surprised hmmmm boris as pm? NO
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: misty on June 25, 2016, 01:12:24 AM
Boris Johnson is not fit to be prime minister He thinks the world politics is a pantomime Well maybe hes right sometimes.... until you count the dead or any victim then its dead serious and clowns dont do serious do they? Maybe they do, life is such a vast and rich tapestry we are aleays surprised hmmmm boris as pm? NO
First of all he has to be elected party leader - somehow I don't see that happening after plan Foil Farage backfired so spectacularly.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 25, 2016, 01:16:28 AM
First of all he has to be elected party leader - somehow I don't see that happening after plan Foil Farage backfired so spectacularly.
Only non toxic candidates allowed if theyre smart...the dwp minister has hnted hes interested, i saw him speak just the once seemed a normal head screwed on bloke but why hed go from that position a total unknown to running for pm is anyones guess
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 01:27:28 AM
Boris Johnson is not fit to be prime minister He thinks the world politics is a pantomime Well maybe hes right sometimes.... until you count the dead or any victim then its dead serious and clowns dont do serious do they? Maybe they do, life is such a vast and rich tapestry we are aleays surprised hmmmm boris as pm? NO
He's destined to be king of the world.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 25, 2016, 01:33:25 AM
Yes, we know how shocked he was today when his so called dream came true, couldnt handle it, ergo hes not a king but a pauper right now, probably getting drunk
If youre honest it was a bit of a shock this morning for many Uk in unchartered territory now, for a short while, bound to be a worry for both remain and leavers
But will always be alright on the night
Btw juncker was right saying well get out now if you want to get out why delay? Though he must be intelligent enough in his position to know the uk population did not actually vote against the eu per se
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 25, 2016, 01:52:15 AM
Most of us come from families that immigrated into the UK. Maybe milleniums ago, but we are mainly mongrels from immigrants. Make no doubt about it
I am with mercury on this one.
There are very few peoples who aren't 'mongrels', but there has been a core population of similar people in the UK for a very long time. Immigration has always continued and most immigrants have integrated with little to show their differences but their names. Daphne du Maurier and Eddie Izzard have Huguenot surnames, for example.
Immigration has not really affected the British culture because it seemed to occur at a level that allowed assimilation. The big groups that I know about are Jamaicans, Pakistanis and Ugandan Asians. They are assimilating and some that I have spoken to were voting to leave the EU.
More recently there has been no mention of assimilation, 'multiculturalism' has been the word. Has it worked? Perhaps in London, which has always been more diverse but there have been problems. How can teachers teach effectively when a high proportion of their pupils don't speak English? Policemen regularly need interpreters to speak to those they arrest.
I have no problem with immigration and no problem with the ethnicity of the immigrants. I do have a problem when the numbers and diversity seriously impact our services. Common sense tells me that teachers are struggling to teach if they struggle to communicate with their pupils, It also tells me that the children the teachers can communicate with are also missing out, No extra funding as far as I know has been provided to help with this problem;
Annette Street School in Govanhill has no native Scots on its roll of 222 pupils and has asked for help to ensure pupils "have an equal chance in society." http://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/glasgows-most-multicultural-primary-reaches-11273151
Schools are a good example of how people have been expected to deal with the problems caused by multiculturalism without Governmental planning or help. If policies cause problems those espousing the policies should help solve the resulting problems. Is it too much to ask that the problems should have been foreseen and planned for?
That, in my opinion, is one of the reasons why some people voted to leave the EU. Rather than planning for the arrival of immigrants successive governments have accused people of being racist when they complained about their local services being overstretched. One fact stood out in the campaign. Remaining meant more of the same. Leaving was the only way people could vote to stop the inward flow from Europe.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 25, 2016, 07:34:22 AM
Could posters who talk about immigration think a little more about what they mean......immigration is not the issue it is uncontrolled immigration that is the issue. The EU is forcing the UK to accept any tom dick or harry who wishes to come here from Europe...what we need is some control. If uncontrolled immigration is a good thing...why not scrap all border controls....then all those crying "racist" would see how stupid their ideas are
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 25, 2016, 08:03:56 AM
Could posters who talk about immigration think a little more about what they mean......immigration is not the issue it is uncontrolled immigration that is the issue. The EU is forcing the UK to accept any tom dick or harry who wishes to come here from Europe...what we need is some control. If uncontrolled immigration is a good thing...why not scrap all border controls....then all those crying "racist" would see how stupid their ideas are
It's rather strange us being roughly in agreement on something isn't it? I agree, it's the lack of control which has caused the problems.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 08:24:42 AM
So it begins.
EU referendum: Moody's cut UK's credit outlook to 'negative'
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
Moody's said the result would herald "a prolonged period of uncertainty".
Meanwhile, PM David Cameron is under pressure to speed up "divorce" talks with the EU after Brussels said exit negotiations should start immediately.
EU head Jean-Claude Juncker said it was "not an amicable divorce", but it was "not a tight love affair anyway". Moody's said the referendum result would have "negative implications for the country's medium-term growth outlook", and it lowered the UK's long term issuer and debt ratings to "negative" from "stable".
It added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
It also said the UK had one of the largest budget deficits among advanced economies.
Colin Ellis, chief credit officer at Moody's, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the UK's credit rating could have an impact on UK households in the long term.
"The government borrowing rate is normally the benchmark - it is the rate at which other interest rates in the economy are set," he said.
"A lower rating would typically correspond to higher borrowing costs, and that would be felt not just by the government but by businesses and households in the longer term."
The financial assessment came after the UK voted to leave the EU, and a defeated Mr Cameron said he would step down as leader by autumn.
Pro-Leave MP Boris Johnson is tipped as favourite to replace him.
EU referendum: Moody's cut UK's credit outlook to 'negative'
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
Moody's said the result would herald "a prolonged period of uncertainty".
Meanwhile, PM David Cameron is under pressure to speed up "divorce" talks with the EU after Brussels said exit negotiations should start immediately.
EU head Jean-Claude Juncker said it was "not an amicable divorce", but it was "not a tight love affair anyway". Moody's said the referendum result would have "negative implications for the country's medium-term growth outlook", and it lowered the UK's long term issuer and debt ratings to "negative" from "stable".
It added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
It also said the UK had one of the largest budget deficits among advanced economies.
Colin Ellis, chief credit officer at Moody's, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the UK's credit rating could have an impact on UK households in the long term.
"The government borrowing rate is normally the benchmark - it is the rate at which other interest rates in the economy are set," he said.
"A lower rating would typically correspond to higher borrowing costs, and that would be felt not just by the government but by businesses and households in the longer term."
The financial assessment came after the UK voted to leave the EU, and a defeated Mr Cameron said he would step down as leader by autumn.
Pro-Leave MP Boris Johnson is tipped as favourite to replace him.
EU referendum: Moody's cut UK's credit outlook to 'negative'
The UK has had its credit rating outlook downgraded to "negative" by the ratings agency Moody's after the country voted to leave the EU.
Moody's said the result would herald "a prolonged period of uncertainty".
Meanwhile, PM David Cameron is under pressure to speed up "divorce" talks with the EU after Brussels said exit negotiations should start immediately.
EU head Jean-Claude Juncker said it was "not an amicable divorce", but it was "not a tight love affair anyway". Moody's said the referendum result would have "negative implications for the country's medium-term growth outlook", and it lowered the UK's long term issuer and debt ratings to "negative" from "stable".
It added: "In Moody's view, the negative effect from lower economic growth will outweigh the fiscal savings from the UK no longer having to contribute to the EU budget."
It also said the UK had one of the largest budget deficits among advanced economies.
Colin Ellis, chief credit officer at Moody's, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the UK's credit rating could have an impact on UK households in the long term.
"The government borrowing rate is normally the benchmark - it is the rate at which other interest rates in the economy are set," he said.
"A lower rating would typically correspond to higher borrowing costs, and that would be felt not just by the government but by businesses and households in the longer term."
The financial assessment came after the UK voted to leave the EU, and a defeated Mr Cameron said he would step down as leader by autumn.
Pro-Leave MP Boris Johnson is tipped as favourite to replace him.
Sounds like they can't wait to see the back of us. Hardly surprising really, we never fully committed to the EU anyway. What is missing now is someone to pull this country together and ignite our fighting spirit. A good leader could make all the difference to our future now.
Wasn't Osborne reducing our deficit? No? Why all the cuts then?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 09:20:36 AM
Sounds like they can't wait to see the back of us. Hardly surprising really, we never fully committed to the EU anyway. What is missing now is someone to pull this country together and ignite our fighting spirit. A good leader could make all the difference to our future now.
Wasn't Osborne reducing our deficit? No? Why all the cuts then?
The cuts were ostensibly to reduce the deficit.
Which hasn't worked.
A look at the UK debt clock will show that.
Likewise , the real UK debt clock should include pensions.
Sounds like they can't wait to see the back of us. Hardly surprising really, we never fully committed to the EU anyway. What is missing now is someone to pull this country together and ignite our fighting spirit. A good leader could make all the difference to our future now.
Wasn't Osborne reducing our deficit? No? Why all the cuts then?
Osborne did reduce the deficit left by the last Labour govt...by quite a lot... I agree we need a strong leader
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 09:24:59 AM
The Brexit campaign was full of slogans and a campaign directed solely at the fear of immigration.
They never really expected to win.
There was no economic plan for the aftermath.
The rest of the EU wants us out a.s.a.p.
There is political indecision in Parliament now, with Cameron resigned, and who does want to initiate article 50.
It is a recipe for uncertainty, which I anticipated would happen if the vote was for out, and so it has proved.
This is what happens when people don't think through the consequences of their actions.
Interesting to note, that the highest 'out' votes occurred in areas where the immigrant population was the lowest.
What some people haven't grasped is that scare mongering only works if people can see for themselves what is happening. There has been a steady rise in the West Midland's foreign-born population, hence the 'out' votes in that area.
Scare mongering carried through some of Osborne's cuts, but in the end he was stopped because people could see he was taking it to ridiculous lengths and not achieving his own targets. He was not allowed to mess with tax credits, it was a step too far.
If Conservative politicians campaigned for Brexit but didn't expect to win that just shows that it was a cynical ploy to publicise themselves as alternatives to the government. Only when we have MP's who are there to represent the public and not themselves will this country get back on track.
If they will not or cannot carry out the will of the people we need a General Election to try and find some MP's with integrity. That would make a refreshing change.
Over the years I have seen a few who were there because they believed in what they do, even if I didn't/don't agree with them.
Winston Churchill Margaret Thatcher Tony Benn Enoch Powell Dennis Skinner Frank Field George Galloway
All passionate and committed. What a shame we have so few who stick to their principles no matter how unpopular it makes them. The fact that people don't trust what politicians say made it harder for the people to decide how to vote. The days when you voted for 'your' party because you trusted them are gone.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 10:47:48 AM
I never really believed Johnson or Gove were committed to Brexit.
It was IMO a cynical ploy to gain power in the Government.
I could see by their reactions yesterday, they never believed they would win the referendum.
P.S. The power vacuum that now remains after Cameron's resignation will only ignite more panic on the financial markets, and whether you like it or not, they do have an influence on our lives
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 25, 2016, 10:48:28 AM
Besides, the petition system is part of democracy.
Are you opposed to democracy ?
N.B. Watching some of the people yesterday who voted for exit was quite illuminating. Most of them couldn't come up with reasons why they had and they hadn't a clue about the consequences of such a decision.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 25, 2016, 10:57:30 AM
You do realize that all the vote has done is show up all the lies that Brexit used, and now we have financial instability.
Are you happy with that ?
The UK Government is in crisis.
Cameron wants none of implementing Article 50. Well, I blame him for this mess anyway.
Corbyn is making a speech at 11 am.
Tell me Rotti, how has the EU harmed your life ?? 8)-)))
Both sides lied and spun. Therefore you can't blame voters for finding it difficult to make an informed decision. It is all Cameron's fault and now he's running away rather than facing the consequences and fulfilling his promise. I expect he received an almighty shove to resign but that's just added to the turmoil. Financial instability was on the cards anyway with the continued rise in borrowing in my opinion.
What matters now is for someone to take control, set out a clear timetable and some financial plans. The deafening silence is a disgrace and just adds to the uncertainty. Our political classes are clearly not fit for purpose.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 25, 2016, 11:04:33 AM
The Brexit debate has created an “opportunity to re-found Europe”, Nicolas Sarkozy has said, but the former French president warned that Britain's departure from the European Union would go down as part of a “grand slam of errors” for the continent.
Mr Sarkozy, 61, who leads France's main centre-Right opposition party, The Republicans, said that Europe requires a new treaty, notably to better manage its borders, regardless of whether Britain remained in the bloc.
“The debate on Brexit is an opportunity to re-found Europe. On many of their criticisms, the British are right,” he told Le Monde.
“The fact that people have given up on Europe is a major cause for concern for all countries. I am totally against the UK leaving Europe. The worst would be Brexit plus Turkey’s membership, that would be the grand slam of errors,” he said.
The EU was running out of control and thank god the british people and govt have had the foresight to take action. This may well signal the end of the EU as we know it as more countries question what is happening. Do we really want to see a million turks with free access to the UK ...utter madness. Change is needed and is being led by the British People
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 11:04:50 AM
Both sides lied and spun. Therefore you can't blame voters for finding it difficult to make an informed decision. It is all Cameron's fault and now he's running away rather than facing the consequences and fulfilling his promise. I expect he received an almighty shove to resign but that's just added to the turmoil. Financial instability was on the cards anyway with the continued rise in borrowing in my opinion.
What matters now is for someone to take control, set out a clear timetable and some financial plans. The deafening silence is a disgrace and just adds to the uncertainty. Our political classes are clearly not fit for purpose.
I totally agree.
However, who is there that can do the job and won't be tarnished by the referendum ?
There is a meeting now of the main members of the EU, but again they can't go forward with cooperation from the UK government.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 25, 2016, 11:05:29 AM
Besides, the petition system is part of democracy.
Are you opposed to democracy ?
N.B. Watching some of the people yesterday who voted for exit was quite illuminating. Most of them couldn't come up with reasons why they had and they hadn't a clue about the consequences of such a decision.
It was a majority of those who voted, which has traditionally been the decision. We don't have petitions when a General Election upsets people, why the heck should we have one for a referendum? What if the exit vote increases? More petitions?
If you haven't clicked by now that the media choose who to speak to so they can push an agenda I give up! How often do they speak to job seekers who aren't chavs?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 11:09:31 AM
The Brexit debate has created an “opportunity to re-found Europe”, Nicolas Sarkozy has said, but the former French president warned that Britain's departure from the European Union would go down as part of a “grand slam of errors” for the continent.
Mr Sarkozy, 61, who leads France's main centre-Right opposition party, The Republicans, said that Europe requires a new treaty, notably to better manage its borders, regardless of whether Britain remained in the bloc.
“The debate on Brexit is an opportunity to re-found Europe. On many of their criticisms, the British are right,” he told Le Monde.
“The fact that people have given up on Europe is a major cause for concern for all countries. I am totally against the UK leaving Europe. The worst would be Brexit plus Turkey’s membership, that would be the grand slam of errors,” he said.
The EU was running out of control and thank god the british people and govt have had the foresight to take action. This may well signal the end of the EU as we know it as more countries question what is happening. Do we really want to see a million turks with free access to the UK ...utter madness. Change is needed and is being led by the British People
But, the leftist libtard spoiled brats, they want open borders, & they're not going home until they get it.
They'll stamp their feet & cry, & anyone who doesn't agree with them is racist.
It was a majority of those who voted, which has traditionally been the decision. We don't have petitions when a General Election upsets people, why the heck should we have one for a referendum? What if the exit vote increases? More petitions?
If you haven't clicked by now that the media choose who to speak to so they can push an agenda I give up! How often do they speak to job seekers who aren't chavs?
I voted against the last wasteful, war mongering labour lot for years.
I wasn't crying in the streets when I didn't get my way.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 11:16:08 AM
It was a majority of those who voted, which has traditionally been the decision. We don't have petitions when a General Election upsets people, why the heck should we have one for a referendum? What if the exit vote increases? More petitions?
If you haven't clicked by now that the media choose who to speak to so they can push an agenda I give up! How often do they speak to job seekers who aren't chavs?
I am well aware of the latter part of your post.
I have also seen on here the attitude of so called thinking people to the referendum debate, as well as in everyday conversations.
A lot of the little Englander cliched phrases have appeared on here, along with the predictions we can do things all by our self. Yet we live in a world where in reality, younger people can see beyond national boundaries and are not harnessed by nationalistic obsessions.
You can still be British, yet be part of a wider community.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 11:17:34 AM
Besides, the petition system is part of democracy.
Are you opposed to democracy ?
N.B. Watching some of the people yesterday who voted for exit was quite illuminating. Most of them couldn't come up with reasons why they had and they hadn't a clue about the consequences of such a decision.
You carry on with your economic pessimism, stephen. The referendum is over and imo the correct decision made, so I'm looking forward to a future free from the shackles of Europe.
Although some people should never be allowed anywhere near a polling station...
You carry on with your economic pessimism, stephen. The referendum is over and imo the correct decision made, so I'm looking forward to a future free from the shackles of Europe.
Although some people should never be allowed anywhere near a polling station...
Can you not tell wummery when you see it anymore?!
The EDL are a bunch of idiot, pisshead football hooligans. (Hint: This is my genuine opinion on the racist w.......s of the EDL).
Muslamic Ray Guns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU
So why the need to try to wind people up.
Try giving your genuine views, if you have any.
I am well aware of the 'muslamic ray guns' reference already. 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 25, 2016, 12:34:41 PM
Well the votes have been cast and we have a result. There is now a job to be done sorting out all the "I didn't expect that to happen bits" in order that the UK can function. Like redrafting laws and standards because one cannot have a void in such matters. That could take up to ten years so one can foresee a vote to keep all the old EU laws and harmonised standards changing them "as and when". So having had a vote that is one of the most important in my lifetime, UK's wonderful leaders are apparently going to hang about for three months with their fingers up their arses. One does rather incline to the view they did not see this coming.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 12:38:51 PM
Well the votes have been cast and we have a result. There is now a job to be done sorting out all the "I didn't expect that to happen bits" in order that the UK can function. Like redrafting laws and standards because one cannot have a void in such matters. That could take up to ten years so one can foresee a vote to keep all the old EU laws and harmonised standards changing them "as and when". So having had a vote that is one of the most important in my lifetime, UK's wonderful leaders are apparently going to hang about for three months with their fingers up their arses. One does rather incline to the view they did not see this coming.
They probably thought that most voters with an iota of common sense could see beyond meaningless slogans.
Can anyone on here answer the questions of how they think the EU has spoilt their lives or eroded their 'britishness' ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 25, 2016, 12:40:55 PM
I am not much for petitions, and neither am I normally in favour of re-voting a referendum ....but this is such a grave matter that I have signed the petition.
I think that a great many unthinking people, who didn't understand the consequences, were swayed by the propaganda and razzmatazz etc. .... and now want to change their minds.
May I suggest that others of you who now realise what a mess we have made of it, sign this petition now.. I think it is being considered tomorrow. So not much time
Thank you stephen for posting the address.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 12:43:05 PM
I am not much for petitions, and neither am I normally in favour of re-voting a referendum ....but this is such a grave matter that I have signed the petition.
I think that a great many unthinking people, who didn't understand the consequences, were swayed by the propaganda and razzmatazz etc. .... and now want to change their minds.
May I suggest that others of you who now realise what a mess we have made of it, sign this petition now.. I think it is being considered tomorrow. So not much time
Thank you stephen for posting the address.
That is my pleasure Sadie. I have signed too.
It is pleasant to be in agreement with you.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 25, 2016, 12:46:15 PM
I have also seen on here the attitude of so called thinking people to the referendum debate, as well as in everyday conversations.
A lot of the little Englander cliched phrases have appeared on here, along with the predictions we can do things all by our self. Yet we live in a world where in reality, younger people can see beyond national boundaries and are not harnessed by nationalistic obsessions.
You can still be British, yet be part of a wider community.
I haven't been decrying belonging to 'wider communities'. I am all in favour of the Commonwealth and NATO, for example.
My argument is that free movement of European people plus immigration from elsewhere could lead to a situation where national boundaries become meaningless. If all European nations have similar ethnic mixes why have nations? People can't ignore that future possibility because it's there and it's real. Being 'British' then becomes a geographical distinction only. How far do you want to go?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 12:52:51 PM
it certainly hasn't spoilt my life but we simply cannot allow unlimited immigration into this country...anyone who cannot see that is blind.
It hasn't spoilt mine either, but I see the news and I see the problems we have had so far, as with schools, for example. Perhaps those who like the idea of unlimited immigration could explain what they think will happen if it continues unchecked and they find their grandchildren are the only ones speaking English in their classroom? That's not being racist, it's being practical.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 01:20:06 PM
How do we provide affordable housing (& public services) to meet population growth, regardless of immmigration?
Build on the green belt?
Can no one see the problem with that?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 01:23:32 PM
Overpopulation, it's a world problem no one wants to mention.
Abortion is green, try sodomy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjsikRTIX28
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 25, 2016, 01:26:58 PM
It hasn't spoilt mine either, but I see the news and I see the problems we have had so far, as with schools, for example. Perhaps those who like the idea of unlimited immigration could explain what they think will happen if it continues unchecked and they find their grandchildren are the only ones speaking English in their classroom? That's not being racist, it's being practical.
yes i will agree to that,good point 8@??)(
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 25, 2016, 01:27:35 PM
I'm hoping that people come to their senses and it gets FAR MORE than 5 million votes.
But pls get cracking and repair the damage.
It would be interesting to hear why you hold the views you do Sadie, but as you seem to have a habit of presenting your opinions without explaining them I won't hold my breath.
It seems to be a theme of the remain faction who think they have the right answers and those who disagree are lacking in some way. I don't much care for Boris Johnson but the personal attacks on him by those remain women in that debate didn't help their cause one bit imo.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 25, 2016, 01:29:59 PM
How do we provide affordable housing (& public services) to meet population growth, regardless of immmigration?
Build on the green belt?
Can no one see the problem with that?
Now we are out of the EU and not subject to the CAP we can build on the land farmers have been paid not to farm buy nabbing it under CPO's. Ducks for cover...with the cry of "incoming".
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 25, 2016, 01:51:28 PM
remember we are still in the commonwealth ,why not give member countrys the same immigration rights as we give the eu countrys.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 25, 2016, 02:13:44 PM
I am not asking you to nail it to a specific locality, just a general region.
From what you have said, I get the impression N Ireland. If this is so, since I also get the impression that N Ireland in the main voted to remain, so how did that come about and what should now be done about it, if anything.
On to a much lesser point, N Ireland v Wales in Euro 2016. I am struggling to come up with a special menu for this. Wales v England was hard enough to get beyond Welsh lamb and leeks. On the Ulster side, I am doubly struggling, perhaps because it is difficult to separate N Irish recipes from Republic of Ireland recipes. Suggestions are welcome.
The only reason N Ireland voted #remain was because half the country voted on the same old ethnic cultural political lines. The other half voted on the basis of the potential economic impact. Thus the 55% remain and 45% leave result.
On the subject of culinary possibilities, a bit late now but an Ulster fry for breakfast which can also be served with afternoon tea. For dinner, potato and leek soup starter.
Some other local specialities include:
Champ (known as 'Poundies' in some areas) – a delicious comfort food dish of potatoes mashed with lots of butter, warm milk and chopped spring onions or, as we call them, scallions. We also love our spuds fried, roast, baked and simply boiled in their ‘jackets’ to be peeled ceremoniously at the table.
Irish Stew - a hearty casserole traditionally made with meat, potatoes, carrots and onions. The Ulster variety is made with steak pieces instead of lamb – cooked to a peppery slush and often served with thick slices of buttered bread.
Dulse – a salty, seaweed snack, originally harvested by fishermen to supplement their income when fishing was slack. Found at markets, and in some bars, it is also used in Robert Ditty’s sesame seed and dulse oatcakes, and in the Causeway Cheese Company’s cheese, and it can add a very pleasant saline edge to a loaf of soda bread.
Lough Neagh eel – traditionally eaten at Hallowe’en and served fried in chunks with a white onion sauce, also often smoked and served as a starter.
Potato bread farl – a dense, earthy flat bread, made with potatoes, flour, and buttermilk and cooked on a griddle. This bread is the heart of every Ulster Fry and a must-buy foodie souvenir.
Soda bread farl - first baked in 19th century Ireland when local peasants added baking soda to help the dough rise. The result is thick, chunky soft bread with fluffy consistency that is best served fried as part of the Ulster Fry, or toasted with a big dollop of butter. They are also the base for popular Paddy’s Pizzas.
Wheaten bread - a healthy brown bread made with whole wheat flour and delicious toasted with melted cheese or buttered and served with a big bowl of steaming broth.
Yellow man – a crunchy golden confectionery often confused with honeycomb, but similar in texture, sold at fairs and markets.
Vegetable roll – well actually its thick slices of a fatty meat from the trimmings of brisket and rib with seasoning of fresh vegetables, usually celery, leek, carrot and onion. It was traditionally part of an Ulster Fry but now more often served at lunch or dinner with mashed potato or champ, and mashed swede or turnip.
Steak & Guinness pies – Steak & Guinness pie is the pub grub of choice in most parts of Ulster. The meat is cooked first, and then a pie dish is lined with puff pastry, filled with the beef and then topped with the pastry. It differs from the UK pastry-topped pie, in that the pastry is both on top and underneath, the meat. Butchers sell a wide range of pies with fillings such as mince and onion or chicken and ham.
Ardglass potted herring – not to be confused with roll mops, this dish was created in the days when herrings were plentiful. Each family has its own secret variation, but often they are wrapped around onion, bay leaf and all-spice with a 50:50 mixture of malt vinegar and water, topped with breadcrumbs and baked.
Traditional butcher’s sausages – the fine-textured sausage typical in Northern Ireland is very distinct from continental styles, and each butcher has his own unique family recipe, usually made with natural casings and hand-linked. Beef sausages seem peculiar to the north of Ireland, although they are also found in Scotland.
Pasties – this comforting mixture of sausage meat, onions, mashed potato is shaped like a burger, and always spiced with loads and loads of black pepper. You can order them plain, battered (the chip shop favourite) or coated with golden breadcrumbs.
Boxty – predominately found in County Fermanagh, Boxty is a weighty, starchy potato cake made with 50:50 mix of cooked mashed potatoes and grated, strained, raw potato. The most common variety is boiled boxty, also known as hurley, a large round loaf which is boiled whole for several hours, allowed to rest and then sliced and fried, often with bacon.
Buttermilk – a by-product of churning butter on the farm, buttermilk is responsible for the distinctive flavour and texture of Northern Irish breads – soda farls, potato bread, pancakes and wheaten bread.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 25, 2016, 02:26:01 PM
Oh My god!... Schulz needs to get that scruffy beard shaved off before he appears in public again! Frightening!
A dapper Farage letting rip...
Love him or hate him one has to admit he's bloody good at what the does. Notice the guy next to Juncker pissing himself laughing.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 02:32:25 PM
“If I would say now that we have a Plan B, this would indicate a kind of willingness of the Commission to envisage seriously that Britain could leave the European Union,” Mr Juncker said.
“We don’t have a Plan B. We have a Plan A. Britain will stay in the European Union as a constructive and active member.”
“If I would say now that we have a Plan B, this would indicate a kind of willingness of the Commission to envisage seriously that Britain could leave the European Union,” Mr Juncker said.
“We don’t have a Plan B. We have a Plan A. Britain will stay in the European Union as a constructive and active member.”
That was what he thought back in February but the chickens have now come home to roost. The UK is out of the EU and effectively rudderless thanks to a gutless PM who cares more about his own credibility than he does for the wellbeing of this country. There is no hiding the truth, David Cameron is a liar. He stated before the referendum that he wanted the people to decide and regardless of the decision he would continue to work for the best interest of the country.
Cameron made a big mistake in taking the lead and campaigning for remain. He should have left that to someone else and remained impartial throughout the process. By promoting remain so passionately followed by being defeated so definitely he has lost the credibility so essential to be the leader of the UK. A massive fail on all counts!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 02:38:35 PM
“If I would say now that we have a Plan B, this would indicate a kind of willingness of the Commission to envisage seriously that Britain could leave the European Union,” Mr Juncker said.
“We don’t have a Plan B. We have a Plan A. Britain will stay in the European Union as a constructive and active member.”
I haven't been decrying belonging to 'wider communities'. I am all in favour of the Commonwealth and NATO, for example.
My argument is that free movement of European people plus immigration from elsewhere could lead to a situation where national boundaries become meaningless. If all European nations have similar ethnic mixes why have nations? People can't ignore that future possibility because it's there and it's real. Being 'British' then becomes a geographical distinction only. How far do you want to go?
I was watching several owners of businesses on TV this morning.
They stated they can't recruit enough of the people they need in the UK.
So if we block migration from the EU , what next ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 02:46:38 PM
I was watching several owners of businesses on TV this morning.
They stated they can't recruit enough of the people they need in the UK.
So if we block migration from the EU , what next ?
Maybe they should try harder. There are thousands of young people out there without jobs. In any event nobody is talking about blocking recruitment of skilled professionals from anywhere in the world. Let them come and work, let them send money home and let them go home at the end of it. A work permit should not be an open door to citizenship.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 02:58:41 PM
Maybe they should try harder. There are thousands of young people out there without jobs. In any event nobody is talking about blocking recruitment of skilled professionals from anywhere in the world. Let them come and work, let them send money home and let them go home at the end of it. A work permit should not be an open door to citizenship.
What has stopped these young people getting off their backsidesin the UK, working hard and, getting the qualifications they need ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 25, 2016, 03:00:08 PM
Maybe they should try harder. There are thousands of young people out there without jobs. In any event nobody is talking about blocking recruitment of skilled professionals from anywhere in the world. Let them come and work, let them send money home and let them go home at the end of it. A work permit should not be an open door to citizenship.
Rather a few too many with degrees in Bob Dylan and NVQs in Nail Art but that's another story.
"Nevertheless, under the United Kingdom's immigration arrangements Commonwealth citizens enjoy certain advantages:
Commonwealth citizens born before 1 January 1983 may by virtue of having a parent born in the United Kingdom and Islands have the right of abode therein – such persons are exempt from all immigration control. Commonwealth citizens with a grandparent born in the United Kingdom and Islands may be admitted for up to five years on this basis, and thereafter be granted indefinite leave to remain. Commonwealth citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 were eligible to be admitted for a "working holiday" for up to two years. This has since been replaced with the more restrictive Youth Mobility Scheme[4] (now open only to youth of Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, and Monaco). Commonwealth citizens, unlike other non-European Economic Area nationals, may not be required to register with the police while living in the United Kingdom".
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 03:02:54 PM
Rather a few too many with degrees in Bob Dylan and NVQs in Nail Art but that's another story.
"Nevertheless, under the United Kingdom's immigration arrangements Commonwealth citizens enjoy certain advantages:
Commonwealth citizens born before 1 January 1983 may by virtue of having a parent born in the United Kingdom and Islands have the right of abode therein – such persons are exempt from all immigration control. Commonwealth citizens with a grandparent born in the United Kingdom and Islands may be admitted for up to five years on this basis, and thereafter be granted indefinite leave to remain. Commonwealth citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 were eligible to be admitted for a "working holiday" for up to two years. This has since been replaced with the more restrictive Youth Mobility Scheme[4] (now open only to youth of Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, and Monaco). Commonwealth citizens, unlike other non-European Economic Area nationals, may not be required to register with the police while living in the United Kingdom".
I wonder how many members of the Commonwealth could officially live here then ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 03:11:47 PM
That was what he thought back in February but the chickens have now come home to roost. The UK is out of the EU and effectively rudderless thanks to a gutless PM who cares more about his own credibility than he does for the wellbeing of this country. There is no hiding the truth, David Cameron is a liar. He stated before the referendum that he wanted the people to decide and regardless of the decision he would continue to work for the best interest of the country.
Cameron made a big mistake in taking the lead and campaigning for remain. He should have left that to someone else and remained impartial throughout the process. By promoting remain so passionately followed by being defeated so definitely he has lost the credibility so essential to be the leader of the UK. A massive fail on all counts!
Exactly, what a loser he turned out to be. @)(++(*
BORIS FOR PRESIDENTBORIS FOR PRESIDENTBORIS FOR PRESIDENTBORIS FOR PRESIDENTBORIS FOR PRESIDENTBORIS FOR PRESIDENTBORIS FOR PRESIDENTBORIS FOR PRESIDENT @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 25, 2016, 03:55:16 PM
Boris beats this hands down. Jean-Claude Juncker pissed as a newt.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 25, 2016, 04:09:15 PM
Remember Sir Digby Jones? Perhaps he could help our clueless politicians? What were people saying about being lied to?
At the last, that is what yesterday was all about. The ability to elect and/or kick out those who make the rules that affect our lives and a revolution against the patronising "Nanny Knows Best" brigade. From Trades Unions to Big Business, from overseas leaders promising "punishment" and "isolation" to domestic politicians in their Westminster Bubble so far removed from the woman or man in the street it is almost painful to watch, they have been told democracy is not for sale to threats of economic Armageddon.
Memo to those who seek to govern: if you patronise electorates for over forty years, deny them a say and tell them there isn't a problem, don't be surprised when, at the first opportunity, they tell you the Emperor has no clothes and they give you a bloody nose!
I notice some idiots like David Lammy are calling for Parliament to overrule the democratic vote. Dangerous times ahead but then anything worth fighting for...
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 05:03:10 PM
Let's see first if Boris could organise a P up in a brewery. *&*%£
I feel sure his degree in Classical History and Philosophy will help. 8)-)))
He is a mere MP at present without a ministerial post. Rumour has it he will be Minister in Charge of Sorting out Cock Ups in Theresa May's government.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 25, 2016, 05:06:25 PM
At one interview she was one of 13 candidates for five jobs, which all went to EU nurses. Another said her daughter, a nurse, found jobs ‘were all filled by overseas candidates. She had no choice but to work in the private sector.’
He is a mere MP at present without a ministerial post. Rumour has it he will be Minister in Charge of Sorting out Cock Ups in Theresa May's government.
I could make a suggestion there, but it might be rude. 8**8:/:
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 05:09:56 PM
English students are being squeezed out by foreigners. It is happening everywhere. Race and ethnicity have nothing to do with it.
You are absolutely right John and my previous post shows first hand experience Asian children listen to their parents That's why they are all studying Medicine , Law and Dentistry Whilst the white British study media studies
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 25, 2016, 05:15:14 PM
Love him or hate him one has to admit he's bloody good at what the does. Notice the guy next to Juncker pissing himself laughing.
Farage's quick, incisive analytical brain making mincemeat of Widow Twankey. Why on earth that unintelligible, babbling, attention-seeking idiot was let loose on Question Time is beyond me? He's not even funny and never has been!
I just hope Farage's alleged heavy drinking and smoking doesn't take a toll on his health.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 25, 2016, 05:16:03 PM
Scottish children 'being squeezed out of university' by EU competitors getting free tuition http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/scottish-children-being-squeezed-out-of-university-by-eu-competi/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 25, 2016, 05:17:32 PM
So of the 80 how many were UK citizens and how many were here under some Commonwealth "easement".
As far as I know the vast majority were the 1st and 2nd generation John was referring to Just a few oversea I have no problem with this Just an observation
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 05:29:27 PM
Scottish children 'being squeezed out of university' by EU competitors getting free tuition http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/scottish-children-being-squeezed-out-of-university-by-eu-competi/
Is that all you can do.
From a Brexit paper. *&*%£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 25, 2016, 05:31:50 PM
Stephen expects the govt to listen to a couple of million who sign a petition and ignore the 17 and a half million who voted for Brexit What sort of logic is that
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 25, 2016, 05:35:40 PM
I know this to be can fact from my own son who has just completed an honours degree. It is your claim therefore that is rubbish.
This whole EU shambles will escalate with more foreigners demanding referendums on membership in their own countries. The ball has started to roll and is gaining momentum, there will be no stopping now regardless of spineless politicians.
The #leave supporters are in the majority. Removal of the 2 million nationalist vote results in 17½ million leave to 14 million remain.
It is interesting that in Scotland, out of an electorate of 4 million, only 1.6 million voted remain and Sturgeon somehow considers this a catalyst for independence. I think she really needs to wise up.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 25, 2016, 05:35:46 PM
Not only that John Many EU youngsters have realised they can sign up for a college course Take the loan they will never repay Spend it And never attend the course
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 25, 2016, 05:39:51 PM
At one interview she was one of 13 candidates for five jobs, which all went to EU nurses. Another said her daughter, a nurse, found jobs ‘were all filled by overseas candidates. She had no choice but to work in the private sector.’
"In the past, training nurses was far cheaper because they could learn as apprentices in hospitals. But a system brought in during the 1990s required all nurses to have a degree".
"Last month the Mail visited a recruitment fair in Porto, Portugal, where Bedford Hospital hired 25 nurses. They were offered contracts without any formal English tests and some were even given help filling in the application form".
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 25, 2016, 05:43:16 PM
"In the past, training nurses was far cheaper because they could learn as apprentices in hospitals. But a system brought in during the 1990s required all nurses to have a degree".
"Last month the Mail visited a recruitment fair in Porto, Portugal, where Bedford Hospital hired 25 nurses. They were offered contracts without any formal English tests and some were even given help filling in the application form".
It costs about £250,000 to train a doctor Why train one when you can get one free from Poland
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 25, 2016, 05:44:12 PM
Scottish children 'being squeezed out of university' by EU competitors getting free tuition http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/scottish-children-being-squeezed-out-of-university-by-eu-competi/
Lack of forward planning by SNP. RTFSPS
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 05:50:54 PM
I know this to be can fact from my own son who has just completed an honours degree. It is your claim therefore that is rubbish.
This whole EU shambles will escalate with more foreigners demanding referendums on membership in their own countries. The ball has started to roll and is gaining momentum, there will be no stopping now regardless of spineless politicians.
Well as far as I am concerned your claim is simply pandering to xenophobia John.
....and quite frankly I have somewhat more experience of the profession I work in
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 25, 2016, 05:52:08 PM
"In the past, training nurses was far cheaper because they could learn as apprentices in hospitals. But a system brought in during the 1990s required all nurses to have a degree".
"Last month the Mail visited a recruitment fair in Porto, Portugal, where Bedford Hospital hired 25 nurses. They were offered contracts without any formal English tests and some were even given help filling in the application form".
Last week in A & E we had a lovely doctor. I think she was Nigerian. The problem was neither I nor my husband could quite grasp what questions she was asking. We had to keep asking her to repeat them. It wasn't her fault or ours, but it does add to the stress if someone is unwell.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 05:52:42 PM
By the way John would you care to give a cite showing the breakdown of students at University.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 25, 2016, 05:53:48 PM
It costs about £250,000 to train a doctor Why train one when you can get one free from Poland
Good point and soon we will be able to send him or her home after they exhaust their work permit and get a new one also for free. And Poland can pick up the pension tab.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 25, 2016, 06:02:50 PM
It's the same in England but there it is students with money arriving on student visas and buying places in what has become a lucrative business for most universities.
By the way John would you care to give a cite showing the breakdown of students at University.
Enjoy!
TOP 20 UNIVERSITIES FOR OVERSEAS STUDENTS* London Business School 71% London School of Economics 67% Cranfield 54% Royal College of Art 53% Royal College of Music 50% London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine 49% Royal Academy of Music 48% School of Oriental and African Studies 47% Buckingham 47% St Andrews 46% Imperial College 43% University of the Arts, London 43% Glyndwr University 43% University College London 41% Heriot-Watt 36% Essex 33% Warwick 33% Edinburgh 33% Sunderland 32% Lancaster 31% *Source: Higher Education Statistics Agency 2012/13. Includes undergraduate and postgraduate.
Good point and soon we will be able to send him or her home after they exhaust their work permit and get a new one also for free. And Poland can pick up the pension tab.
Kind of like a pull system of manufacturing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-3R186oPng
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 06:04:04 PM
Good point and soon we will be able to send him or her home after they exhaust their work permit and get a new one also for free. And Poland can pick up the pension tab.
So John can you provide a breakdown of breakdown of students at University in the UK ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 25, 2016, 06:07:49 PM
article 50 must be implemented immediately,cause now the words out we can expect a mad dash to get here while their still can,expect another 5 million otherwise ?{)(**
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 25, 2016, 06:12:44 PM
It's the same in England but there it is students with money arriving on student visas and buying places in what has become a lucrative business for most universities.
TOP 20 UNIVERSITIES FOR OVERSEAS STUDENTS* London Business School 71% London School of Economics 67% Cranfield 54% Royal College of Art 53% Royal College of Music 50% London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine 49% Royal Academy of Music 48% School of Oriental and African Studies 47% Buckingham 47% St Andrews 46% Imperial College 43% University of the Arts, London 43% Glyndwr University 43% University College London 41% Heriot-Watt 36% Essex 33% Warwick 33% Edinburgh 33% Sunderland 32% Lancaster 31% *Source: Higher Education Statistics Agency 2012/13. Includes undergraduate and postgraduate.
I was under the impression there were no tuition fees in Scotland. Under EU law that means NO tuition fees for students from member states either. That's a no brainer for any EU student who has to pay fees. Except English Welsh and Northern Irish Students who pick up the shitty end of that particular stick.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 06:16:17 PM
I was under the impression there were no tuition fees in Scotland. Under EU law that means NO tuition fees for students from member states either. That's a no brainer for any EU student who has to pay fees. Except English Welsh and Northern Irish Students who pick up the shitty end of that particular stick.
Rather a biased list.
What about a full list of all universities John. ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 25, 2016, 06:16:37 PM
Just been sent this by Spanish friends.
MESSAGE FROM THE SPANISH EMBASSY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM ON THE EU REFERENDUM
24/06/2016
In relation to the recent referendum on the membership of the United Kingdom to the EU, the Embassy of Spain wishes to point out the following:
1. the outcome of the referendum does not mean any change to the legal situation of the Spanish citizens and companies of our country in the United Kingdom, for a period of up to two years which may be extended. The Embassy would like to therefore launch a message of tranquillity to all Spanish citizens who work, reside or visit the United Kingdom or which are personal or professional relations with this country.
2. the United Kingdom must now notify its intention to withdraw from the European Union to the European Council. After such notification, the Union negotiated and held in an agreement that will establish the form of its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union with the United Kingdom.
3. as noted at the beginning, this agreement will be negotiated during a period of up to two years extendable. During that time, the legal and institutional framework between the EU and the United Kingdom will remain unchanged, so there will be no change in relation to the current situation.
4. the EU treaties only will no longer apply to United Kingdom from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, the two years of the notification referred to in point 2, unless agreed to extend the deadline.
5. taking into account the importance of the interests in the presence, the Government of Spain will work within the European institutions to achieve an agreement that is beneficial both for Spain and for the United Kingdom and the EU.
6. the Government of Spain has expressed its desire to strengthen relations between Spain and the United Kingdom at the bilateral level and continue to push forward the dense relationships between Spanish and British citizens in areas such as trade, employment, national communities living in the United Kingdom and Spain, investments and tourism.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 06:17:19 PM
article 50 must be implemented immediately,cause now the words out we can expect a mad dash to get here while their still can,expect another 5 million otherwise ?{)(**
I just saw another elephant fly past the window.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 06:20:53 PM
1.997 million on this 'spoof' petition.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 25, 2016, 06:24:09 PM
even if everyone who voted to remain were to sign that petition it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference,sorry we are out and thats where we are going to stay ?>)()<
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 25, 2016, 06:41:57 PM
even if everyone who voted to remain were to sign that petition it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference,sorry we are out and thats where we are going to stay ?>)()<
Yes, very true. Seems the government website has been the subject of some mischief.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 06:43:19 PM
Bregret
Electoral services workers have reported calls from people asking if they could change their decision after Friday’s result became clear....
So thick and immature... they should never be allowed to vote in any election ever again.
what the heck is she talking about that woman in the clip we are only 36hrs in and nothing has changed yet.as for the other clown.people vote to make a difference in what they believe ,he voted thinking his vote wouldnt make a difference,i think he has a few screws loose 8(0(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 07:35:25 PM
Well, according to Sky News the bidders for Tata Steel are going to withdraw.
Surprise.
Moody rating Agency on Sky News....
'Chronic uncertainty' in the UK economy.
'Any money saved from the EU will not offset losses due to a weaker economy'.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 25, 2016, 07:38:39 PM
Too many it seems thought it was about bent bananas, Polish plumbers, Latvian brickies and Estonian farm labourers. The UK is best off out, these Johnny foreigners don't even care which school a chap went to.
I was looking on the road junction near my house this morning only to see the lying b@stards haven't started to build the hospital yet.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 25, 2016, 07:39:17 PM
Who in the "leave" camp was in charge of The Plan? 8(8-))
Could they find it please....
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 25, 2016, 07:40:29 PM
Too many it seems thought it was about bent bananas, Polish plumbers, Latvian brickies and Estonian farm labourers. The UK is best off out, these Johnny foreigners don't even care which school a chap went to.
I was looking on the road junction near my house this morning only to see the lying b@stards haven't started to build the hospital yet.
Mis playing the immigration card again Try and be a little more truthful Controlled immigration OK Uncontrolled immigration not OK
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 25, 2016, 07:44:40 PM
Now try telling me what harm has being in the EU done to you ?
I await your reply.
Prices rose on entry to the Common Market in 1973, particularly food prices. I have paid 25% more for food for 43 years. Then we had the introduction of VAT, due to which many more prices rose.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 25, 2016, 07:46:58 PM
The last time British voters were formally consulted on continued membership of what was then called the Common Market, in 1975, mainstream politicians of the major parties joined forces with experts and establishment figures to persuade Britons that leaving was too great a risk. The “In” campaign prevailed.
This time, 41 years later, an almost identical strategy was adopted by the Remain camp. The Conservative prime minister, David Cameron, led the effort, with the notional support of the Labour Party leader, Jeremy Corbyn, and a phalanx of heavyweight economists and world leaders (including, most theatrically, President Obama). Open letters signed by dozens of accomplished figures in their respective fields urged the voters to shun the perils of Brexit.
In 1975, the British people deferred to such authorities. In 2016, they ignored them.
Prices rose on entry to the Common Market in 1973, particularly food prices. I have paid 25% more for food for 43 years. Then we had the introduction of VAT, due to which many more prices rose.
'...I have paid 25% more for food for 43 years...' ???
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 08:25:13 PM
'...I have paid 25% more for food for 43 years...' ???
Are you having trouble understanding Stephen? The price of food rose by 25% when the UK joined the Common Market. That's cost all of us by my reckoning.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 25, 2016, 08:37:44 PM
Now try telling me what harm has being in the EU done to you ?
I await your reply.
Shouldn't be any surprise to you at all. You know how I've no time for excessive bureaucracy, especially the third gratuitous tier above local and national government, interfering with many aspects of our lives.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 08:38:30 PM
Are you having trouble understanding Stephen? The price of food rose by 25% when the UK joined the Common Market. That's cost all of us by my reckoning.
Wow.
I never knew that.
Prices rising with inflation, and traders, conning people when V.A.T. was introduced, and when we switched from the old currency to the decimal system.
Well, you learn something new everyday.
&%5y% &%5y%
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 08:42:22 PM
Shouldn't be any surprise to you at all. You know how I've no time for excessive bureaucracy, especially the third gratuitous tier above local and national government, interfering with many aspects of our lives.
We have that in the UK already.
Haven't you noticed ? 8)-)))
So, any more ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 25, 2016, 08:53:12 PM
Chill out stephen. You're spending far too much of your time sat at the keyboard being a sourpuss and clever ar$e, whether it's about the McCanns, or the Referendum because you lost. I've been out gardening and enjoying the sunshine since I left this morning, I come back and here you still are, miserably rabbiting on.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 09:00:00 PM
Chill out stephen. You're spending far too much of your time sat at the keyboard being a sourpuss and clever ar$e, whether it's about the McCanns, or the Referendum because you lost. I've been out gardening and enjoying the sunshine since I left this morning, I come back and here you still are, miserably rabbiting on.
Try taking your own advice.
..and try answering the questions .
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 25, 2016, 09:06:30 PM
Chill out stephen. You're spending far too much of your time sat at the keyboard being a sourpuss and clever ar$e, whether it's about the McCanns, or the Referendum because you lost. I've been out gardening and enjoying the sunshine since I left this morning, I come back and here you still are, miserably rabbiting on.
@)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 09:08:33 PM
Yeah Stephen, go out & get some fresh British air.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 09:09:24 PM
Thank you De Montfort University activist William Oliver Healey.
Over 2.3 million have signed the petition, and you started it to support Brexit.
Now that is a classic. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* 8((()*/ 8((()*/ 8((()*/
What a plonker Healey is.
Thank you Angelo for your earlier post. 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 09:11:00 PM
The plan was jockeying for position in the belief it wouldn't happen. Well it did ! Looking at the "box" it hasn't even been a wake up call to them. Their sense of urgency remains manana.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 25, 2016, 09:20:10 PM
Only angry when I insert one of these 8()(((@# in a post, or when a group of feral kids are creating havoc in front of the house, which they are right now.
Have to go... don't stay up too late!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 25, 2016, 09:40:58 PM
Only angry when I insert one of these 8()(((@# in a post, or when a group of feral kids are creating havoc in front of the house, which they are right now.
Have to go... don't stay up too late!
are they roma kids,drives me mad when it happens around here ,east london 8()(((@#
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 25, 2016, 09:50:07 PM
They better hurry up and invoke article 50 and get on with it or it will be done for them by sme legal loophole.
Stalling until a new PM is elected is pointless. Things will move on IMO in about a week or less now. Grace period.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 25, 2016, 09:52:12 PM
Chill out stephen. You're spending far too much of your time sat at the keyboard being a sourpuss and clever ar$e, whether it's about the McCanns, or the Referendum because you lost. I've been out gardening and enjoying the sunshine since I left this morning, I come back and here you still are, miserably rabbiting on.
I'm enjoying reading stephen (for a change 8(0(* ). He knows a good deal about it ... more than most of us ... and has taken a very plucky stance.
Well done Stephen 8@??)(
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 25, 2016, 10:01:04 PM
Prices rose on entry to the Common Market in 1973, particularly food prices. I have paid 25% more for food for 43 years. Then we had the introduction of VAT, due to which many more prices rose.
I remember when they introduced the Euro to Spain, prices almost doubled in the bars and restaurants overnight. A three course meal with a bottle of wine was 1000 pesetas but after introduction of the Euro it was around €10.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 25, 2016, 10:23:12 PM
Up until about a year ago I could go to my local shops without being harassed by a Romanian big issue seller
I saw what looked like a foreign woman sitting in the ditch of my neighbours farm last year and thought the migrants had arrived. I later found out she was the Filipino wife of another local farmer. Takes all sorts I suppose 8)-)))
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 25, 2016, 10:49:18 PM
The constant speed at which the numbers in this Petition are rising is impossible, approx 300 every 5 secs, which leads me to suspect it is a sham. With it being the weekend no doubt there is nobody to deal with it if the site has been hacked. Check it at 3am and I bet it is still updating at the same speed. I would be very wary of registering my e-mail address with it. Time will tell!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: puglove on June 25, 2016, 10:59:10 PM
Brexit opponents- favor regulation and socialism, favor international governance as opposed to sovereign rule from home, favor welfare policies and no borders, favor banking and trade policies that aid international businesses more than local businesses and workers
When you add these up you get someone favoring being bankrupted to provide aid to unlimited emigrants and international businesses.
Those in favor of Brexit see the problems with the above.
There are several parallels between such and Obama/Clinton v Trump.
Scipio - what do you think about Andrew Basiago? Dude or complete belltard?
(I SO want it all to be true!)
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: insider on June 25, 2016, 11:04:12 PM
The constant speed at which the numbers in this Petition are rising is impossible, approx 300 every 5 secs, which leads me to suspect it is a sham. With it being the weekend no doubt there is nobody to deal with it if the site has been hacked. Check it at 3am and I bet it is still updating at the same speed. I would be very wary of registering my e-mail address with it. Time will tell!
I have been told it is a piss take.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 11:06:58 PM
David Lammy MP urges Parliament to ignore EU referendum result: 'We can stop this madness'
'The referendum was was an advisory, non-binding referendum'
The constant speed at which the numbers in this Petition are rising is impossible, approx 300 every 5 secs, which leads me to suspect it is a sham. With it being the weekend no doubt there is nobody to deal with it if the site has been hacked. Check it at 3am and I bet it is still updating at the same speed. I would be very wary of registering my e-mail address with it. Time will tell!
Lots and lots of petitioners seem to be from outside the uk
"In the past, training nurses was far cheaper because they could learn as apprentices in hospitals. But a system brought in during the 1990s required all nurses to have a degree".
"Last month the Mail visited a recruitment fair in Porto, Portugal, where Bedford Hospital hired 25 nurses. They were offered contracts without any formal English tests and some were even given help filling in the application form".
Everyone in Portugal is required to study English for 8 years at school.
To get qualified as a nurse, there is a requirement to study English further. Presumably for medical terms, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: puglove on June 25, 2016, 11:29:05 PM
Probably those ex-pats who will lose their right to free health care. As will all Brits who take an EHIC card on holiday.
Yes, never thought of that,but lots of the names are from african and arabian and asian countries Eta and s america, well everywhere really Suppose british citizens are all over the world,and all british citizens are allowed to petition, sorry about that
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 11:51:01 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl1KqZ8WYAAPArn.jpg)
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 25, 2016, 11:52:11 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl1Kn1oXEAAbtWt.jpg)
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Admin on June 26, 2016, 12:44:25 AM
Beware the acammers.
EU referendum: Out campaign warns of ‘scam’ as fake news announcement says polls are open until Friday
The Telegraph
Ben Riley-Smith, Political Correspondent
23 June 2016 • 5:41pm
The official campaign to leave the European Union has warned its supporters not to be taken in by a “scam” saying they will be able to vote in the referendum on Friday.
The warning came after a fake image of BBC breaking news announcing the polls will be open for 48 hours begun to be circulated online.
“Due to the unusually high number of people expected to vote in the Referendum, voting will now take place over two days,” the fake message read.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Admin on June 26, 2016, 12:49:47 AM
The 2nd referendum “petition” is wide open to fraud.
he UK Parliament online petition for a second referendum, currently containing upwards of a million alleged signatures is open to almost unlimited fraud, and likely worthless.
Although we might assume such a potentially significant petition would be subject to at least basic checks on identity to prevent fake identities and duplication, one of our own frequent researchers can confirm this is not true, and he has sent us the screen caps to prove it.
The researcher, who does live in the UK, signed the petition twice today, within minutes, from the same computer, using fake names and email addresses designed for the purpose. The only test of his ID was a simple checkbox that asked if he was a UK citizen. He was not asked to provide a street address, or any proof of ID. He gave two different – and false – postcodes, one in Manchester and one in the West Country. This is a screen shot of the two confirmatory email he received after each of these attempts…
He apparently made no attempt to conceal what he was doing. He did not use a proxy IP or any other means to cloak his origins. He tells us even the names he used were blatantly fabricated. Yet as you can see they were both accepted without question.
It seems that all you need in order to be eligible to sign this petition is access to the internet. You can sign up as many times as you like, with as many names as you like, and the only limit is how many fake email addresses you can be bothered to create.
This raises obvious questions about the alleged “thousands” or even “millions” of signatures claimed in outlets such as the BBC and the Guardian. It’s reasonable to ask how many of these alleged signatories were verified as real people, and reasonable to assume, on what we know so far, that none of them have been. it’s also reasonable to ask why no journalists at the Beeb or Graun are asking these questions.
Our independent experiment seems to offer some support to the ongoing open source investigations in various places online, all of which raise serious doubts about the nature of and intent behind this petition.
I remember when they introduced the Euro to Spain, prices almost doubled in the bars and restaurants overnight. A three course meal with a bottle of wine was 1000 pesetas but after introduction of the Euro it was around €10.
We were living in Germany when the UK joined the Common Market. We had access to UK groceries at UK prices, but sometimes needed something from the local shop. Prices were almost double ours, especially things like coffee. We were told food prices would rise but the price of electrical goods would fall. They didn't.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 07:39:27 AM
Now what did Farage say the other day.
Ah yes, if the result had been 52 to 48 in favour of remain, he would demand a second referendum.
Apparently he changed his mind on that. @)(++(* @)(++(*
It's not the only thing the former supporter of the National Front changed his mind on either.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 07:48:25 AM
The petition is on an official Gov.uk site.
Speaking personally, I have signed once, as I know other people have done.
You have to verify your e-mail address which I did.
The system works for all petitions, and of course as for any Gov.uk petition, some might abuse the system.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 08:01:03 AM
' Brexit: a journey into the unknown for a country never before so divided ' by Andrew Rawnsley
Ah yes, if the result had been 52 to 48 in favour of remain, he would demand a second referendum.
Apparently he changed his mind on that. @)(++(* @)(++(*
It's not the only thing the former member of the National Front changed his mind on either.
Farage is a politician. Politicians are as truthful as journalists. As I said earlier on the thread truthfulness and integrity are scarce in today's world.
I see our 'friends' in Europe are searching the regulations to see if they can hurry us on our way.
The president of the European parliament, Martin Schulz, told the Guardian that EU lawyers were studying whether it was possible to speed up the triggering of article 50.
He said it was difficult to accept that “a whole continent is taken hostage because of an internal fight in the Tory party”, adding that he doubted the timing of article 50 was down to the UK alone. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/eu-emergency-talks-brexit-berlin
Cameron thought Britain would be OK if we voted to leave the EU;
Mr Cameron said he understood "the appeal" of Britain going it alone and he was sure the UK would survive outside the EU.......Douglas Carswell told the BBC it was the speech he had "been waiting to hear from a Conservative prime minister all my adult life", while Mark Pritchard said it was "a major triumph" and would unite his party. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282
The Referendum Act;
The act makes no provision for the result to be legally binding on the government or on any future government due to the principle of parliamentary sovereignty although the decision will be final https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Referendum_Act_2015
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 26, 2016, 09:04:23 AM
It was apparently started by a Brexiter before the referendum result in case things didn't go their way.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 10:07:58 AM
Anyone who thinks this country was united before the referendum is naive. Both campaigns lied, anyone who thinks they didn't is naive. I have spoken to people who couldn't work out the best way to vote because they knew that there were lies on both sides. The Scottish people put their trust in the SNP and voted the way they said. Their vote was more to do with that than with Europe, in my opinion.
In the last Election 66% of those eligible voted. The turnout for the referendum was 72%; That's around 3 million people. Perhaps the turnout was higher because people knew their vote was more likely to count. Perhaps they felt more strongly about the EU question.
This result has highlighted the pre-existing divide in the UK, not caused it.
Judging by the reaction of our political representatives masters neither of the main parties seem able to unite and provide clear leadership because the result has highlighted the divisions amongst them too.
There's no point in blaming either side for what has happened because in my opinion it has simply demonstrated how out of touch both sides are with the majority of those who voted to leave the EU; 17,410,742 people didn't agree with remaining in the EU. It's time for the politicians to earn their salaries, pull their socks up and get to work to sort out the exit instead of fighting each other.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 26, 2016, 10:17:39 AM
Anyone who thinks this country was united before the referendum is naive. Both campaigns lied, anyone who thinks they didn't is naive. I have spoken to people who couldn't work out the best way to vote because they knew that there were lies on both sides. The Scottish people put their trust in the SNP and voted the way they said. Their vote was more to do with that than with Europe, in my opinion.
In the last Election 66% of those eligible voted. The turnout for the referendum was 72%; That's around 3 million people. Perhaps the turnout was higher because people knew their vote was more likely to count. Perhaps they felt more strongly about the EU question.
This result has highlighted the pre-existing divide in the UK, not caused it.
Judging by the reaction of our political representatives masters neither of the main parties seem able to unite and provide clear leadership because the result has highlighted the divisions amongst them too.
There's no point in blaming either side for what has happened because in my opinion it has simply demonstrated how out of touch both sides are with the majority of those who voted to leave the EU; 17,410,742 people didn't agree with remaining in the EU. It's time for the politicians to earn their salaries, pull their socks up and get to work to sort out the exit instead of fighting each other.
totally agree
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 10:19:35 AM
Anyone who thinks this country was united before the referendum is naive. Both campaigns lied, anyone who thinks they didn't is naive. I have spoken to people who couldn't work out the best way to vote because they knew that there were lies on both sides. The Scottish people put their trust in the SNP and voted the way they said. Their vote was more to do with that than with Europe, in my opinion.
In the last Election 66% of those eligible voted. The turnout for the referendum was 72%; That's around 3 million people. Perhaps the turnout was higher because people knew their vote was more likely to count. Perhaps they felt more strongly about the EU question.
This result has highlighted the pre-existing divide in the UK, not caused it.
Judging by the reaction of our political representatives masters neither of the main parties seem able to unite and provide clear leadership because the result has highlighted the divisions amongst them too.
There's no point in blaming either side for what has happened because in my opinion it has simply demonstrated how out of touch both sides are with the majority of those who voted to leave the EU; 17,410,742 people didn't agree with remaining in the EU. It's time for the politicians to earn their salaries, pull their socks up and get to work to sort out the exit instead of fighting each other.
Of course both campaigns lied, that is already known.
However, I'm afraid the repercussions from this campaign and the fighting in the Tory and Labour parties, will not result in a united front.
The referendum was a mistake by Cameron, trying to appease voters switching from the Tories to Ukip.
...and anyone who thinks immigration will be stopped is seriously deluded.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 10:45:31 AM
Of course both campaigns lied, that is already known.
However, I'm afraid the repercussions from this campaign and the fighting in the Tory and Labour parties, will not result in a united front.
The referendum was a mistake by Cameron, trying to appease voters switching from the Tories to Ukip.
...and anyone who thinks immigration will be stopped is seriously deluded.
I don't see how either party can regain credibility after this. The Conservative leader made a stupid mistake. High ranking Conservatives campaigned for something they didn't really want. The Labour leader campaigned for something he didn't appear to want. The Labour shadow cabinet still don't want to accept that the vote for Corbyn was also a vote against them.
Blair has just said the voters voted for the unknown. He said it was like buying a house you hadn't seen. Some people told the voters the house was fabulous, others said it would fall on them, but they still bought it. He's quite correct. Many people disliked the house we were in so much they actually didn't care what the new house was like, they just wanted out of the old one.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 10:51:54 AM
I don't see how either party can regain credibility after this. The Conservative leader made a stupid mistake. High ranking Conservatives campaigned for something they didn't really want. The Labour leader campaigned for something he didn't appear to want. The Labour shadow cabinet still don't want to accept that the vote for Corbyn was also a vote against them.
Blair has just said the voters voted for the unknown. He said it was like buying a house you hadn't seen. Some people told the voters the house was fabulous, others said it would fall on them, but they still bought it. He's quite correct. Many people disliked the house we were in so much they actually didn't care what the new house was like, they just wanted out of the old one.
How many of the voters for Brexit even knew what the EU was ?
You should have listened to some of the brexit voters on the phone ins on LBC.
As to Blair, the less said the better.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 11:00:39 AM
remainers,we have had 40yrs of eu,now lets have 40yrs of going it alone,then we can make a fair comparison,lets get together both sides and make MADE IN BRITAIN the label the world will want and the label it used to be, ?{)(**
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 26, 2016, 11:02:56 AM
I was so convinced of a remain win that I didn't bother voting and when I woke up Fri morning I had forgotten all about it!
Can those that voted leave tell me what they think the advantages are.
Financial markets had factored in a remain. Sterling and global stock markets fell sharply on Friday. How can this be good for anyone? Most hate the idea of being a slave to the 'markets' but they are a bellwether of confidence. Without confidence businesses will put off investing and hiring. Individuals will defer purchasing any big ticket items. If tax receipts fall this will have a knock on effect on public services and add to the deficit.
The UK could lose its EU financial passport (MiIFID). Why will the EU allow the UK to retain it when it is no longer a member of the EU? As much as many loathe bankers, the City and all it represents the financial services industry is a major contributor to the UK economy.
The PM has resigned and it looks like JC is on his way out. Nicola Sturgeon is looking at another vote on Scottish independence. How can any of this uncertainty be good for anyone or anything?
Unconvinced &%+((£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 11:03:48 AM
A bit of light relief, especially the song at the end of the clip which seems quite poignant.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 26, 2016, 11:10:12 AM
remainers,we have had 40yrs of eu,now lets have 40yrs of going it alone,then we can make a fair comparison,lets get together both sides and make MADE IN BRITAIN the label the world will want and the label it used to be, ?{)(**
Even 'luxury' brands such as Prada are often made in China.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 11:11:49 AM
I was so convinced of a remain win that I didn't bother voting and when I woke up Fri morning I had forgotten all about it!
Can those that voted leave tell me what they think the advantages are.
Financial markets had factored in a remain. Sterling and global stock markets fell sharply on Friday. How can this be good for anyone? Most hate the idea of being a slave to the 'markets' but they are a bellwether of confidence. Without confidence businesses will put off investing and hiring. Individuals will defer purchasing any big ticket items. If tax receipts fall this will have a knock on effect on public services and add to the deficit.
The UK could lose its EU financial passport (MiIFID). Why will the EU allow the UK to retain it when it is no longer a member of the EU? As much as many loathe bankers, the City and all it represents the financial services industry is a major contributor to the UK economy.
The PM has resigned and it looks like JC is on his way out. Nicola Sturgeon is looking at another vote on Scottish independence. How can any of this uncertainty be good for anyone or anything?
Unconvinced &%+((£
on another note holly.if we win euro 2016 ,will there allow us to take the cup home also will we still be allowed to compete in the next one 8(8-))
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 11:15:19 AM
on another note holly.if we win euro 2016 ,will there allow us to take the cup home also will we still be allowed to compete in the next one 8(8-))
Russia took part in Euro 2016 and as they are not a member of the EU I don't think we need concern ourselves too much about it. It's certainly the least of my worries anyway...
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 11:17:47 AM
Russia took part in Euro 2016 and as they are not a member of the EU I don't think we need concern ourselves too much about it. It's certainly the least of my worries anyway...
yes i forgot about them ,alfie
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 11:21:15 AM
How many of the voters for Brexit even knew what the EU was ?
You should have listened to some of the brexit voters on the phone ins on LBC.
As to Blair, the less said the better.
Once again you are decrying people because they don't agree with you. I'm surprised Stephen because you have always objected to that kind of behaviour in other debates.
No matter what you think of some of the people of this country their vote counted for one, just as yours did. Would you prefer a return to the days when only those perceived as the 'better' people were allowed to vote? I'm sure there were almost as many reasons for voters to vote one way or the other as there were voters. Are you assuming that all the remain voters were educated deep thinking people who understood and weighed the issues carefully before voting? Dream on.
I also think that dismissing a relevant point by anyone because you don't like them is unworthy of you. Again, you seem to be behaving just like those you have previously criticised.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 26, 2016, 11:22:17 AM
on another note holly.if we win euro 2016 ,will there allow us to take the cup home also will we still be allowed to compete in the next one 8(8-))
I like your PMA 8(>((
Eligibility to bring the cup home and compete in the 2020 tournament is not dependent on being a member of the EU. Nothing and noone can change our geography. We will always be a country in Europe.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 11:26:09 AM
Once again you are decrying people because they don't agree with you. I'm surprised Stephen because you have always objected to that kind of behaviour in other debates.
No matter what you think of some of the people of this country their vote counted for one, just as yours did. Would you prefer a return to the days when only those perceived as the 'better' people were allowed to vote? I'm sure there were almost as many reasons for voters to vote one way or the other as there were voters. Are you assuming that all the remain voters were educated deep thinking people who understood and weighed the issues carefully before voting? Dream on.
I also think that dismissing a relevant point by anyone because you don't like them is unworthy of you. Again, you seem to be behaving just like those you have previously criticised.
That is totally hypocritical, because you are doing exactly the same in giving your opinion.
Haven't you noticed the nature of the comments on here attacking those who don't support Brexit.
It seems some like to have their cake and eat it.
If you don't like my opinions on this, then I have one word for you.
Tough.
By the way, in case you didn't grasp it, most of the brexit supporters on the phone ins displayed staggering ignorance.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 11:31:27 AM
I was so convinced of a remain win that I didn't bother voting and when I woke up Fri morning I had forgotten all about it!
Can those that voted leave tell me what they think the advantages are.
Financial markets had factored in a remain. Sterling and global stock markets fell sharply on Friday. How can this be good for anyone? Most hate the idea of being a slave to the 'markets' but they are a bellwether of confidence. Without confidence businesses will put off investing and hiring. Individuals will defer purchasing any big ticket items. If tax receipts fall this will have a knock on effect on public services and add to the deficit.
The UK could lose its EU financial passport (MiIFID). Why will the EU allow the UK to retain it when it is no longer a member of the EU? As much as many loathe bankers, the City and all it represents the financial services industry is a major contributor to the UK economy.
The PM has resigned and it looks like JC is on his way out. Nicola Sturgeon is looking at another vote on Scottish independence. How can any of this uncertainty be good for anyone or anything?
Unconvinced &%+((£
I didn't vote leave, but I am defending the result because voters voted and decided. That's democracy, which we are all supposed to believe in.
Our politicians are elected and paid to make the result work and they need to get on and do their jobs. Both sides should accept the result and concentrate on making the future as good as it can be for the voters.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 11:35:12 AM
I didn't vote leave, but I am defending the result because voters voted and decided. That's democracy, which we are all supposed to believe in.
Our politicians are elected and paid to make the result work and they need to get on and do their jobs. Both sides should accept the result and concentrate on making the future as good as it can be for the voters.
totally agree ?{)(**
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 26, 2016, 11:37:42 AM
i hope burberrys is still a uk owned company,the japs and Chinese love burberrys 8((()*/
Yes Burberry is a British brand and has been a recent success story in terms of its share price but I doubt the goods are made in the UK. Angela Ahrendts was the CEO for 8 years who left for Apple retail where she reportedly earned $73.4 million in shares in her first year! Can any one individual be worth this? As far as I'm aware Apple manufacturers in China. I wonder what the remuneration packages are for those on the assembly lines?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 11:38:20 AM
That is totally hypocritical, because you are doing exactly the same in giving your opinion.
Haven't you noticed the nature of the comments on here attacking those who don't support Brexit.
It seems some like to have their cake and eat it.
If you don't like my opinions on this, then I have one word for you.
Tough.
By the way, in case you didn't grasp it, most of the brexit supporters on the phone ins displayed staggering ignorance.
I respect all opinions. I don't respect those who attack the opinion holder rather than the opinion, as you well know. If I have done that on here I am quite prepared to apologise.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 11:41:47 AM
Yes Burberry is a British brand and has been a recent success story in terms of its share price but I doubt the goods are made in the UK. Angela Ahrendts was the CEO for 8 years who left for Apple retail where she reportedly earned $73.4 million in shares in her first year! Can any one individual be worth this? As far as I'm aware Apple manufacturers in China. I wonder what the remuneration packages are for those on the assembly lines?
yes i agree holly,very puzzling
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 26, 2016, 11:47:53 AM
I didn't vote leave, but I am defending the result because voters voted and decided. That's democracy, which we are all supposed to believe in.
Our politicians are elected and paid to make the result work and they need to get on and do their jobs. Both sides should accept the result and concentrate on making the future as good as it can be for the voters.
Well I sort of agree. The main reason I didn't vote is that I didn't have the time/inclination to look into it all and I didn't want to rely on what I considered propaganda from both camps.
I think it would be better if we had a team of technocrats putting forward arguments for and against rather than what I considered a lot of scaremongering by MP's. If I had my way I would do away politicians and a government would be formed by technocrats.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 11:53:47 AM
Well I sort of agree. The main reason I didn't vote is that I didn't have the time/inclination to look into it all and I didn't want to rely on what I considered propaganda from both camps.
I think it would be better if we had a team of technocrats putting forward arguments for and against rather than what I considered a lot of scaremongering by MP's. If I had my way I would do away politicians and a government would be formed by technocrats.
here here,they only listen when wanting our votes,but once in power they ignore the peoples thoughts and views and do what THEY WANT 8()(((@#
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 11:58:40 AM
Scotland has a Brexit Veto.
Half of shadow cabinet to resign.
Sour grapes.
Sour British Grapes.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 12:30:54 PM
Well I sort of agree. The main reason I didn't vote is that I didn't have the time/inclination to look into it all and I didn't want to rely on what I considered propaganda from both camps.
I think it would be better if we had a team of technocrats putting forward arguments for and against rather than what I considered a lot of scaremongering by MP's. If I had my way I would do away politicians and a government would be formed by technocrats.
I think electoral reform along the lines of Switzerland's system would go a long way to ensuring that the politicians don't lose touch with the Electorate. We only have democracy during a General Election and then it's limited. There's never going to be a perfect system, but we could improve.
Yes. When did we turn into a nation of whingers? We used to accept that life's not fair, you win some you lose some, you accept defeat gracefully etc. Now the dummies fly out of the prams and everyone takes their ball back and stamps off muttering threats. How undignified we must seem in the eyes of the world.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 12:40:50 PM
Of course both campaigns lied, that is already known.
However, I'm afraid the repercussions from this campaign and the fighting in the Tory and Labour parties, will not result in a united front.
The referendum was a mistake by Cameron, trying to appease voters switching from the Tories to Ukip.
...and anyone who thinks immigration will be stopped is seriously deluded.
It is you who are deluded, immigration will be controlled once we pull the plug on the EU and its socialist rules. And stop calling everyone racist by the way.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: misty on June 26, 2016, 12:43:29 PM
I think electoral reform along the lines of Switzerland's system would go a long way to ensuring that the politicians don't lose touch with the Electorate. We only have democracy during a General Election and then it's limited. There's never going to be a perfect system, but we could improve.
remainers,we have had 40yrs of eu,now lets have 40yrs of going it alone,then we can make a fair comparison,lets get together both sides and make MADE IN BRITAIN the label the world will want and the label it used to be, ?{)(**
There are unfortunately some people who have done very nicely out of the UK who want to destroy it and among their ranks are Irish republicans/nationalists and Scottish nationalists. They have their own agenda and that is why N Ireland and Scotland voted remain.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 12:45:44 PM
Yes. When did we turn into a nation of whingers? We used to accept that life's not fair, you win some you lose some, you accept defeat gracefully etc. Now the dummies fly out of the prams and everyone takes their ball back and stamps off muttering threats. How undignified we must seem in the eyes of the world.
Political corectness, leftist libtard extremism, safe spaces & trigger warnings, taking offence by proxy.
Too many people these days have no bollocks.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 12:47:24 PM
Yes. When did we turn into a nation of whingers? We used to accept that life's not fair, you win some you lose some, you accept defeat gracefully etc. Now the dummies fly out of the prams and everyone takes their ball back and stamps off muttering threats. How undignified we must seem in the eyes of the world.
beautifully put,its done now lets get together and make it work,we are a civilised nation,some other places in the world a spilt vote like this would cause civil war,move on
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 26, 2016, 12:48:11 PM
Well I sort of agree. The main reason I didn't vote is that I didn't have the time/inclination to look into it all and I didn't want to rely on what I considered propaganda from both camps.
I think it would be better if we had a team of technocrats putting forward arguments for and against rather than what I considered a lot of scaremongering by MP's. If I had my way I would do away politicians and a government would be formed by technocrats.
I am sorry to say if you didn't bother to vote then you cannot complain about the result.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 12:48:26 PM
I was so convinced of a remain win that I didn't bother voting and when I woke up Fri morning I had forgotten all about it!
Can those that voted leave tell me what they think the advantages are.
Financial markets had factored in a remain. Sterling and global stock markets fell sharply on Friday. How can this be good for anyone? Most hate the idea of being a slave to the 'markets' but they are a bellwether of confidence. Without confidence businesses will put off investing and hiring. Individuals will defer purchasing any big ticket items. If tax receipts fall this will have a knock on effect on public services and add to the deficit.
The UK could lose its EU financial passport (MiIFID). Why will the EU allow the UK to retain it when it is no longer a member of the EU? As much as many loathe bankers, the City and all it represents the financial services industry is a major contributor to the UK economy.
The PM has resigned and it looks like JC is on his way out. Nicola Sturgeon is looking at another vote on Scottish independence. How can any of this uncertainty be good for anyone or anything?
Unconvinced &%+((£
Its about not wanting to participate in a Socialist experiment any more which would have had serious repercussions for our entire way of life. The UK is a sovereign State and should maintain the right to control our own destiny. Our factories were being raped and pillaged in some cases with the EU paying to have them removed to other countries. Artificial customs tariffs have been imposed on trade with non EU countries which restrict our ability to trade worldwide. We are subject to ridiculously stupid rules and regulations which are killing small business. Fishing, farming and just about every traditional industry in our country has been blighted and tainted by the EU. This had to stop and now it will!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 12:49:39 PM
Generation Snowflake: how we train our kids to be censorious cry-babies
If today’s students believe that hearing a dissenting opinion can kill them, it’s because we taught them to think like that
Its about not wanting to participate in a Socialist experiment any more which would have had serious repercussions for our entire way of life. The UK is a sovereign State and should maintain the right to control our own destiny.
Yet 2 of the 4 countries which Central Government devolved certain responsibilities to voted to remain - how does that work?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 12:54:29 PM
Consider the magnitude of what has just happened. Against the warnings of experts, the pleas of the vast majority of MPs, the wishes of almost every capitalist, and overtures from Brussels, a majority of British people have said No to the EU. They’ve done the thing almost everyone with power and influence said they shouldn’t: taken a leap into the dark; chased after the devil they don’t know in preference for the one they do; taken a big, exciting risk with the very nature of their nation. They have — let’s just say it — rebelled, and rebelled against virtually every wing of the establishment.
You don’t even have to be on the Leave side to admire this (although of course it helps if you are). You just have to be in favour of democracy.
Its about not wanting to participate in a Socialist experiment any more which would have had serious repercussions for our entire way of life. The UK is a sovereign State and should maintain the right to control our own destiny.
totally agree.we have a wonderful opitunity to take control of our destiny again,iam all for cooperating with eu but i cant put them before our own,it doesnt make sense,the future will be good if we all try
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 12:56:47 PM
Consider the magnitude of what has just happened. Against the warnings of experts, the pleas of the vast majority of MPs, the wishes of almost every capitalist, and overtures from Brussels, a majority of British people have said No to the EU. They’ve done the thing almost everyone with power and influence said they shouldn’t: taken a leap into the dark; chased after the devil they don’t know in preference for the one they do; taken a big, exciting risk with the very nature of their nation. They have — let’s just say it — rebelled, and rebelled against virtually every wing of the establishment.
You don’t even have to be on the Leave side to admire this (although of course it helps if you are). You just have to be in favour of democracy.
beautifully put,its done now lets get together and make it work,we are a civilised nation,some other places in the world a spilt vote like this would cause civil war,move on
The remain machine just wants to destroy and wreck now just like a petulant child.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 12:58:50 PM
Consider the magnitude of what has just happened. Against the warnings of experts, the pleas of the vast majority of MPs, the wishes of almost every capitalist, and overtures from Brussels, a majority of British people have said No to the EU. They’ve done the thing almost everyone with power and influence said they shouldn’t: taken a leap into the dark; chased after the devil they don’t know in preference for the one they do; taken a big, exciting risk with the very nature of their nation. They have — let’s just say it — rebelled, and rebelled against virtually every wing of the establishment.
You don’t even have to be on the Leave side to admire this (although of course it helps if you are). You just have to be in favour of democracy.
And about time too. The whingers are free to leave!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 01:01:59 PM
Can anyone explain to me why, for example, Scotland that voted overwhelmingly to remain, should simply roll over and accept the outcome of the referendum when it is clearly against the wishes of its people?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 01:02:03 PM
If anyone needed any example of what is wrong in our country have a look at the mob who greeted victorious Boris the morning after the referendum. What a bunch of s..mbags!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 01:03:49 PM
Can anyone explain to me why, for example, Scotland that voted overwhelmingly to remain, should simply roll over and accept the outcome of the referendum when it is clearly against the wishes of its people?
Ahem. Overwhelmingly abstained is the correct term Alf.
In Scotland 1.6m voted remain and 1m voted remain out of an electorate of 4.1 million.
Thus 2.5 million eligible voters either did not want to be in the EU or didn't care. Shove that one up Sturgeon!!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 01:05:18 PM
If anyone needed any example of what is wrong in our country have a look at the mob who greeted victorious Boris the morning after the referendum. What a bunch of s..mbags!
That's a bit like saying, if anyone needed any example of what is wrong with our country have a look at the s..mbags in Britain First, and their rhetoric, and the fact that one of their supporters is a murderer. It's a teensy bit over simplistic is it not?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 01:06:27 PM
And about time too. The whingers are free to leave!
no retreat no surrender ,we will move on to make Britain great again,anyone who wants to put a spanner in the works ,YOU KNOW WHERE THE DOOR IS,we are better off without negative thinkers
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 01:10:16 PM
If anyone needed any example of what is wrong in our country have a look at the mob who greeted victorious Boris the morning after the referendum. What a bunch of s..mbags!
the lowest of the low,bordering on THUG rule ,after losing resort to threats and intimidation,should have been nicked for threatning behavoiur
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 01:11:56 PM
It is you who are deluded, immigration will be controlled once we pull the plug on the EU and its socialist rules. And stop calling everyone racist by the way.
I'm not calling everyone racist.
Try being accurate and don't put words in my mouth.
I predict there will a mass influx before article 50 is implemented.
Oh by the way Angelo, how about apologising for me stating every one is racist , WHEN I DIDN'T ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 01:14:01 PM
remainers,we have had 40yrs of eu,now lets have 40yrs of going it alone,then we can make a fair comparison,lets get together both sides and make MADE IN BRITAIN the label the world will want and the label it used to be, ?{)(**
The best you'll do is "Designed in Great Britain and Made in The Far East".
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 01:22:05 PM
Do you mean the Japanese kicked shit out of the UK motorcycle industry in the early 1960s was to do with the UK being a member of the EU ? I rather think not. Whether you like it or not South Korea and Viet Nam are the machine shops of the world today. To retrieve that we need to be better than them and undercut their prices. Even Loakes have their cheaper shoes (£150 per pair) made in India.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 01:48:33 PM
Do you mean the Japanese kicked shit out of the UK motorcycle industry in the early 1960s was to do with the UK being a member of the EU ? I rather think not. Whether you like it or not South Korea and Viet Nam are the machine shops of the world today. To retrieve that we need to be better than them and undercut their prices. Even Loakes have their cheaper shoes (£150 per pair) made in India.
think positivly ?{)(**
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 01:49:14 PM
Just seen this on FB -
The people have spoken and my side has lost. On our side, we need to simply respect that and get on with making the best of it. The Brexit people now have the responsibility to deliver what they promised, including:
There will be no damaging fall in the value of the pound We will save £350 million a week which will be invested in the NHS, free prescription charges (England and Wales) VAT on household energy will be abolished Hundreds of new schools will be built EU levels of funding will be maintained in science, research, farming and regional funds Net Immigration will fall to tens of thousands The economy will thrive Trade with the EU will be tariff free without the need for free movement of people between the EU and the UK New trade deals with be agreed with non-EU countries within a couple of years Wages will increase There will be no impact on the Irish border Scotland will not leave the UK There won’t be a £30 billion gap in the current account There won’t need to be an emergency budget There will be no cuts in public expenditure There will be no tax rises There will be no flight of capital No banks or businesses will leave the UK There will be no effect on the City of London
Looking forward to seeing all of that being delivered over the course of the next few years.... 8)--))
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 01:51:54 PM
The people have spoken and my side has lost. On our side, we need to simply respect that and get on with making the best of it. The Brexit people now have the responsibility to deliver what they promised, including:
There will be no damaging fall in the value of the pound We will save £350 million a week which will be invested in the NHS, free prescription charges (England and Wales) VAT on household energy will be abolished Hundreds of new schools will be built EU levels of funding will be maintained in science, research, farming and regional funds Net Immigration will fall to tens of thousands The economy will thrive Trade with the EU will be tariff free without the need for free movement of people between the EU and the UK New trade deals with be agreed with non-EU countries within a couple of years Wages will increase There will be no impact on the Irish border Scotland will not leave the UK There won’t be a £30 billion gap in the current account There won’t need to be an emergency budget There will be no cuts in public expenditure There will be no tax rises There will be no flight of capital No banks or businesses will leave the UK There will be no effect on the City of London
Looking forward to seeing all of that being delivered over the course of the next few years.... 8)--))
dont worry we are on the job 8(0(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 01:57:45 PM
The people have spoken and my side has lost. On our side, we need to simply respect that and get on with making the best of it. The Brexit people now have the responsibility to deliver what they promised, including:
There will be no damaging fall in the value of the pound We will save £350 million a week which will be invested in the NHS, free prescription charges (England and Wales) VAT on household energy will be abolished Hundreds of new schools will be built EU levels of funding will be maintained in science, research, farming and regional funds Net Immigration will fall to tens of thousands The economy will thrive Trade with the EU will be tariff free without the need for free movement of people between the EU and the UK New trade deals with be agreed with non-EU countries within a couple of years Wages will increase There will be no impact on the Irish border Scotland will not leave the UK There won’t be a £30 billion gap in the current account There won’t need to be an emergency budget There will be no cuts in public expenditure There will be no tax rises There will be no flight of capital No banks or businesses will leave the UK There will be no effect on the City of London
Looking forward to seeing all of that being delivered over the course of the next few years.... 8)--))
Think positively like: have your goods made where the unit labour rates are low because that is what all your competitors are doing.
Well it would seem that some would like 3 rd world employment conditions here.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 26, 2016, 02:16:37 PM
G-Unit posted a link to Referendum Act but this bit is interesting: "The act makes no provision for the result to be legally binding on the government or on any future government due to the principle of parliamentary sovereignty although the decision will be final. The result of the referendum is to be a single majority vote of all four constituent countries of the United Kingdom and Gibraltar with no super majorities, double majorities or any minimum turnout threshold required for the vote to pass which will be declared by Chief Counting Officer (CCO) Jenny Watson at Manchester Town Hall on Friday 24 June 2016. The act does not specify any specific consequences that would follow the result of the referendum. In the event of a "Leave" vote, the government would decide under what circumstances to invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty to begin a two-year process of negotiations for Britain to leave the EU.[13] European Union law would remain enforceable in the United Kingdom unless the European Communities Act 1972 were repealed".[5]
We could have a fun debate on precisely what the first sentence means.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 02:24:45 PM
This is a golden opportunity for our politicians, bankers and business leaders to prove their worth. The best of them will rise to the challenge the others will go.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 26, 2016, 02:25:58 PM
The labour party is finished under Jez. He's the one that needs sacking.
He may or may not be the right leader, but he was elected by due process. The flouncers should remember that the votes for Corbyn could also have been votes against them and what they stood for. If they manage to force a new leadership election and still don't get their own way, what then? Keep on until they do? Another example of scorning democracy imo.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 02:41:42 PM
Paul Flynn MP https://twitter.com/PaulFlynnMP?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Orchestrated treachery. Resignations on the hour by the future BLAIR TRIBUTE PARTY. Self-indulgent party games as steel jobs are in new peril.
Crisis ahead!...... If all the Blairites resign from the Shadow Cabinet who will be left to leak the confidential business to the press?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 02:43:10 PM
Think positively like: have your goods made where the unit labour rates are low because that is what all your competitors are doing.
Alternatively produce quality goods that people will pay a bit more for because they are made of better materials and last longer. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 02:46:27 PM
He may or may not be the right leader, but he was elected by due process. The flouncers should remember that the votes for Corbyn could also have been votes against them and what they stood for. If they manage to force a new leadership election and still don't get their own way, what then? Keep on until they do? Another example of scorning democracy imo.
Are you suggesting that they should instead swallow their principles and beliefs in order to prop up a leader who has zero prospects whatsoever of winning a general election - ever? What's democratic about that? If they don't get their own way then perhaps it's time to go it alone, ditch the labour party all together and form a party that's actually electable.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 02:48:54 PM
Alternatively produce quality goods that people will pay a bit more for because they are made of better materials and last longer. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
And while you're at it ban imports from the Far East I suppose...?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 02:50:25 PM
Are you suggesting that they should instead swallow their principles and beliefs in order to prop up a leader who has zero prospects whatsoever of winning a general election - ever? What's democratic about that? If they don't get their own way then perhaps it's time to go it alone, ditch the labour party all together and form a party that's actually electable.
Corbyn may or may not have the members backing.
However, in parliament he is a dead duck.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 02:51:10 PM
Are you suggesting that they should instead swallow their principles and beliefs in order to prop up a leader who has zero prospects whatsoever of winning a general election - ever? What's democratic about that? If they don't get their own way then perhaps it's time to go it alone, ditch the labour party all together and form a party that's actually electable.
how do you know what chances he's got.nobody gave' leave' a chance and we won 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 26, 2016, 02:59:08 PM
Paul Flynn MP https://twitter.com/PaulFlynnMP?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Orchestrated treachery. Resignations on the hour by the future BLAIR TRIBUTE PARTY. Self-indulgent party games as steel jobs are in new peril.
Crisis ahead!...... If all the Blairites resign from the Shadow Cabinet who will be left to leak the confidential business to the press?
If Corbyn can find a new team they have sacrificed their chance to influence matters at a critical time for the country. They have made themselves look ridiculous and petty and brought their party into disrepute. I've only heard of one of them and that's because of his father, so they didn't make a huge impact imo.
Hilary Benn Heidi Alexander Gloria Del Piero Ian Murray Lilian Greenwood Lucy Powell Kerry McCarthy
I see Andy Burham has more sense so far;
Andy Burnham ✔ @andyburnhammp
I have never taken part in a coup against any Leader of the Labour Party and I am not going to start now. 2/3 1:00 PM - 26 Jun 2016 · Wigan, England, United Kingdom
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 03:09:34 PM
Are you suggesting that they should instead swallow their principles and beliefs in order to prop up a leader who has zero prospects whatsoever of winning a general election - ever? What's democratic about that? If they don't get their own way then perhaps it's time to go it alone, ditch the labour party all together and form a party that's actually electable.
I'm suggesting that those who believe in democracy should accept democratic decisions otherwise their principles will most certainly be called into question.
Great idea to go it alone! It worked for 'the gang of four' so well, didn't it?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 03:15:22 PM
If Corbyn can find a new team they have sacrificed their chance to influence matters at a critical time for the country. They have made themselves look ridiculous and petty and brought their party into disrepute. I've only heard of one of them and that's because of his father, so they didn't make a huge impact imo.
Hilary Benn Heidi Alexander Gloria Del Piero Ian Murray Lilian Greenwood Lucy Powell Kerry McCarthy
I see Andy Burham has more sense so far;
Andy Burnham ✔ @andyburnhammp
I have never taken part in a coup against any Leader of the Labour Party and I am not going to start now. 2/3 1:00 PM - 26 Jun 2016 · Wigan, England, United Kingdom
truly a man with principals ,take not idiots,Blair deserves a seat a the haigh in the war crimes court 8(0(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 03:28:52 PM
Let's not forget the Chilcot report on the Iraq Inquiry.
6 th July.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 03:40:03 PM
https://youtu.be/p6ZamhMTojk?t=292
Put the bomb under the economy & press the trigger @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 26, 2016, 03:42:17 PM
Alternatively produce quality goods that people will pay a bit more for because they are made of better materials and last longer. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
To export into the EU goods must meet certain minimum requirements with respect to materials of construction, safety and standards defined by EU. Long gone [if they ever existed in reality] are the days when goods made east of Suez were vastly inferior. It's not a case of paying a "bit more" it is a vast chunk more. Two simple examples. Hardy flyfishing reel made in UK £330. Hardy flyfishing reel made in S Korea £150.00. Loake brogues made in UK £200+ ; Loake brogues made in India £120.00.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 03:49:22 PM
I'm suggesting that those who believe in democracy should accept democratic decisions otherwise their principles will most certainly be called into question.
Great idea to go it alone! It worked for 'the gang of four' so well, didn't it?
dNo, it didn't work out for them, but that was then and this is now, completely different time, circumstances and issues. If there is a vote of no confidence in Jeremy then that is all part and parcel of the democratic process, as is any leadership contest which may follow as a result. If Jeremy really is the right man for the job as far as his party members are concerned then they will simply vote him back in, problem solved.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 03:58:46 PM
Post-Brexit, the Tata Steel buy-out is in jeopardy. Thoughts?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 04:11:07 PM
Post-Brexit, the Tata Steel buy-out is in jeopardy. Thoughts?
Plenty ?{)(**
Starter for ten. If the prospective purchasers were planning to sell the product into the EU then three weeks ago it was an EU mill with EU NOBOs selling the product within the EU.
Now it is, as far the prospective purchaser is concerned, a non EU mill in a country without a trading agreement with the EU that will need approval by an EU NOBO and to negotiate a trading agreement with the EU.
Spot the difference
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 04:15:21 PM
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 04:18:32 PM
Britain 'blocked' EU bid to raise China steel tariff that could have protected the industry from cheap imports (but Cameron STILL spends billions on foreign aid)
Britain 'blocked' EU bid to raise China steel tariff that could have protected the industry from cheap imports (but Cameron STILL spends billions on foreign aid)
To export into the EU goods must meet certain minimum requirements with respect to materials of construction, safety and standards defined by EU. Long gone [if they ever existed in reality] are the days when goods made east of Suez were vastly inferior. It's not a case of paying a "bit more" it is a vast chunk more. Two simple examples. Hardy flyfishing reel made in UK £330. Hardy flyfishing reel made in S Korea £150.00. Loake brogues made in UK £200+ ; Loake brogues made in India £120.00.
EU standards on fire retardancy are lower than UK standards. I posted a story a while back where mattresses made in China to EU standards were mistakenly sold in the UK. I saw them being tested and they were blazing very quickly. Those made to UK standards didn't. EU standards are not the best they could be. People holidaying in Europe should bear this type of thing in mind.
According to Loake they still make shoes in Kettering because there are still people who want to buy British made products. Loake also source shoes from India, Italy and Portugal. These shoes are cheaper but still of good quality. I'm sure that method could be applied to other goods too.
A lot of people buy according to price but not everyone does. We have had 'buy British' drives before, why shouldn't people respond to such a call again? Let's be positive and hope we can once again be renowned for our skills and craftmanship.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 04:53:10 PM
EU standards on fire retardancy are lower than UK standards. I posted a story a while back where mattresses made in China to EU standards were mistakenly sold in the UK. I saw them being tested and they were blazing very quickly. Those made to UK standards didn't. EU standards are not the best they could be. People holidaying in Europe should bear this type of thing in mind.
According to Loake they still make shoes in Kettering because there are still people who want to buy British made products. Loake also source shoes from India, Italy and Portugal. These shoes are cheaper but still of good quality. I'm sure that method could be applied to other goods too.
A lot of people buy according to price but not everyone does. We have had 'buy British' drives before, why shouldn't people respond to such a call again? Let's be positive and hope we can once again be renowned for our skills and craftmanship.
Alot of the people who buy cheaply imported food, clothes and electrical goods are the very same less well off people who voted leave because they feel they have been shafted by the establishment. What do you tell them when the price of all these items becomes less affordable?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: misty on June 26, 2016, 04:58:44 PM
Alot of the people who buy cheaply imported food, clothes and electrical goods are the very same less well off people who voted leave because they feel they have been shafted by the establishment. What do you tell them when the price of all these items becomes less affordable?
Heaven only knows how they'll react when Aldi & Lidl pull out of the UK.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 05:00:21 PM
Alot of the people who buy cheaply imported food, clothes and electrical goods are the very same less well off people who voted leave because they feel they have been shafted by the establishment. What do you tell them when the price of all these items becomes less affordable?
Tweeting about inequality & human rights, from an i phone made in a sweat shop.
Oh right, so we're going to start taking account of the wishes of all those who didn't get off their arses to vote now are we?
They are Scottish people with rights are they not? People who have no time for a SNP administration or Sturgeon for that matter. Sturgeon does not speak for the vast majority in Scotland and the vote she does have is dwindling.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 05:24:22 PM
That is totally hypocritical, because you are doing exactly the same in giving your opinion.
Haven't you noticed the nature of the comments on here attacking those who don't support Brexit.
It seems some like to have their cake and eat it.
If you don't like my opinions on this, then I have one word for you.
Tough.
By the way, in case you didn't grasp it, most of the brexit supporters on the phone ins displayed staggering ignorance.
Do you mean like you displayed not three days ago?
By the way, people don't need to be a Professor of economics to realise that something has to change in the direction our country was going. All I have seen from you has been questions again and again asking the same thing and when the result was given all you can do is criticise it. We live in a democracy Stephen, you lost, get over it.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 05:27:40 PM
Do you mean like you displayed not three days ago?
By the way, people don't need to be a Professor of economics to realise that something has to change in the direction our country was going. All I have seen from you has been questions again and again asking the same thing and when the result was given all you can do is criticise it. We live in a democracy Stephen, you lost, get over it.
Ah more personal Insults Angelo
Is that the best you can do ?
Brexit won, by it's leaders lying to the gullible, who swallowed it hook, line and sink. As to the rest who voted out, well you already know what I think of them.
Meanwhile the exit has to go through parliament.
If you think it all sails ahead for Brexit you are mistaken.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 05:34:15 PM
Brexit won, by it's leaders lying to the gullible, who swallowed it hook, line and sink. As to the rest who voted out, well you already know what I think of them.
Meanwhile the exit has to go through parliament.
Ifor you think it all sails ahead for Brexit you are mistaken.
I told everyone last week that a brexit vote could be blocked by parliament No one believed me
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 05:39:23 PM
Are you trying to make an excuse for what you said ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 26, 2016, 05:43:15 PM
Has anyone noticed that we don't seem to have any politicians Cameron is crying his eyes out...has resigned so is basically no longer leader Corbyn has absolutely no support from his party and is dead man walking and I can't remember who is the Lib Dem leader Who's running the country
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 05:44:04 PM
I have bought quite few small pieces of equipment from China Absolute rubbish Im afraid Very cheap but rubbish
Some stuff is but much isn't. The Chinese make some very reliable wind and water generators for example. They will soon monopolise world trade so no wonder Cameron wanted them as our nuclear partner. For their own part the Chinese are building 40 new nuclear power stations in the next five years. If they can build a replica Range Rover and sell it for £14k instead of £40k fair play to them.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 26, 2016, 06:13:12 PM
EU standards on fire retardancy are lower than UK standards. I posted a story a while back where mattresses made in China to EU standards were mistakenly sold in the UK. I saw them being tested and they were blazing very quickly. Those made to UK standards didn't. EU standards are not the best they could be. People holidaying in Europe should bear this type of thing in mind.
According to Loake they still make shoes in Kettering because there are still people who want to buy British made products. Loake also source shoes from India, Italy and Portugal. These shoes are cheaper but still of good quality. I'm sure that method could be applied to other goods too.
A lot of people buy according to price but not everyone does. We have had 'buy British' drives before, why shouldn't people respond to such a call again? Let's be positive and hope we can once again be renowned for our skills and craftmanship.
Loake and Hardy make products in UK, I buy their "British Made" rather than "designed in UK made in Far East" because I like to buy British and can afford to for some stuff but not every one can afford to and the UK no longer make everything. I can't afford to buy a British car (there's only about Morgan and TVR left anyway) so I buy American or Chinese (Ford or Volvo to you).
Where EU standards are concerned the EU only have power to issue a directive it is then up to member states to draft laws and standards for their implementation within that state. If the implementation laws and standards the UK drafted disadvantaged it the UK know who to blame.
Just a useless aside: why did we lose out? We had Land Rover yet in the Middle East it is all Toyota pick ups? Most modern family cars are five door, five speed, front wheel drive transverse engine; first one on the scene Austin Maxi.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 26, 2016, 06:17:49 PM
Some stuff is but much isn't. The Chinese make some very reliable wind and water generators for example. They will soon monopolise world trade so no wonder Cameron wanted them as our nuclear partner. For their own part the Chinese are building 40 new nuclear power stations in the next five years. If they can build a replica Range Rover and sell it for £14k instead of £40k fair play to them.
And just think, if most of the posters here didn't have Chinese-made PCs, laptops, tablets and their components... there wouldn't be any forum to lambast each other on!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 06:18:07 PM
Loake and Hardy make products in UK, I buy their "British Made" rather than "designed in UK made in Far East" because I like to buy British and can afford to for some stuff but not every one can afford to and the UK no longer make everything. I can't afford to buy a British car (there's only about Morgan and TVR left anyway) so I buy American or Chinese (Ford or Volvo to you).
Where EU standards are concerned the EU only have power to issue a directive it is then up to member states to draft laws and standards for their implementation within that state. If the implementation laws and standards the UK drafted disadvantaged it the UK know who to blame.
Just a useless aside: why did we lose out? We had Land Rover yet in the Middle East it is all Toyota pick ups? Most modern family cars are five door, five speed, front wheel drive transverse engine; first one on the scene Austin Maxi.
The truth being we got too greedy, wanted too big pay packets and were prepared to strike to get it. Consequently Scotland lost all car manufacturing and England is left with Nissan in Sunderland, Mini at Cowley, Toyota in Derbyshire, Jaguar at Solihull and Honda at Swindon.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 26, 2016, 06:27:50 PM
I told everyone last week that a brexit vote could be blocked by parliament No one believed me
Blx.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 06:29:16 PM
More Labour Remain MP's have now decide to leave.
Lord Falconer, shadow justice secretary Heidi Alexander, shadow health secretary Lucy Powell, shadow education secretary Vernon Coaker, shadow Northern Ireland secretary Ian Murray, shadow Scottish secretary - and Labour's only MP in Scotland Kerry McCarthy, shadow environment secretary Seema Malhotra, shadow chief secretary to the Treasury Lillian Greenwood, shadow transport secretary Gloria de Piero, shadow minister for young people and voter registration
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 06:30:50 PM
Has anyone noticed that we don't seem to have any politicians Cameron is crying his eyes out...has resigned so is basically no longer leader Corbyn has absolutely no support from his party and is dead man walking and I can't remember who is the Lib Dem leader Who's running the country
Cameron in between sobs @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 26, 2016, 06:31:36 PM
The truth being we got too greedy, wanted too big pay packets and were prepared to strike to get it. Consequently Scotland lost all car manufacturing and England is left with Nissan in Sunderland, Mini at Cowley, Toyota in Derbyshire, Jaguar at Solihull and Honda at Swindon.
Just think, at the end of the Second World War (to give it its British name) Austin were offered VW for tuppence ha'penny and declined.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 06:32:07 PM
Lord Falconer, shadow justice secretary Heidi Alexander, shadow health secretary Lucy Powell, shadow education secretary Vernon Coaker, shadow Northern Ireland secretary Ian Murray, shadow Scottish secretary - and Labour's only MP in Scotland Kerry McCarthy, shadow environment secretary Seema Malhotra, shadow chief secretary to the Treasury Lillian Greenwood, shadow transport secretary Gloria de Piero, shadow minister for young people and voter registration
Are you surprised ?
Meanwhile Boris Johnson is intending to stand as a 'unifying' candidate.
Now that is the best joke I've heard for a while. %£5&% %£5&%
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 26, 2016, 06:34:06 PM
Lord Falconer, shadow justice secretary Heidi Alexander, shadow health secretary Lucy Powell, shadow education secretary Vernon Coaker, shadow Northern Ireland secretary Ian Murray, shadow Scottish secretary - and Labour's only MP in Scotland Kerry McCarthy, shadow environment secretary Seema Malhotra, shadow chief secretary to the Treasury Lillian Greenwood, shadow transport secretary Gloria de Piero, shadow minister for young people and voter registration
Are you sure that's not a list of Premiership players on the transfer list?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 06:40:12 PM
I told everyone last week that a brexit vote could be blocked by parliament No one believed me
No Parliament is going to go against the will of the majority. Parliament could vote to go to the moon or fire a nuclear missile at Moscow but that too won't happen. Just because they can doesn't mean they will Dave.
On another note, I give dead man walking Corbyn 24 hours before he goes.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 26, 2016, 06:42:09 PM
No Parliament is going to go against the will of the majority. Parliament could vote to go to the moon or fire a nuclear missile at Moscow but that too won't happen. Just because they can doesn't mean they will Dave.
There is no majority
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 26, 2016, 06:44:14 PM
MP Nigel Evans has admitted immigration will not fall significantly as a result of Brexit, claiming the referendum result only means “control” rather than a reduction in numbers.
The Conservative MP told BBC Radio 5 live there had been “some misunderstanding” about the consequences of Brexit on immigration.
When asked to say if migration to the UK would fall significantly now the country was leaving the EU, Mr Evans answered: “No."
Alot of the people who buy cheaply imported food, clothes and electrical goods are the very same less well off people who voted leave because they feel they have been shafted by the establishment. What do you tell them when the price of all these items becomes less affordable?
Who told you that Alfie? Nobody knows who voted for what.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 26, 2016, 07:36:47 PM
I am sorry to say if you didn't bother to vote then you cannot complain about the result.
I'm not really complaining as I don't know enough to have any strong views either way and how it will all play out. But I was concerned when I saw global stock markets fall, along with sterling, and Britain is now at risk of a credit downgrade.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 07:38:15 PM
Has anyone noticed that we don't seem to have any politicians Cameron is crying his eyes out...has resigned so is basically no longer leader Corbyn has absolutely no support from his party and is dead man walking and I can't remember who is the Lib Dem leader Who's running the country
Tom Watson was at Glastonbury, too busy to resign. @)(++(*
The country can carry on, we have the Yes Minister people doing the day to day stuff. It probably suits them to have all the politicians busy elsewhere; it makes their jobs easier.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 07:43:15 PM
So here is some imaginary news that wasn't going to happen, according to Brexit.
HSBC 'to move jobs to Paris if UK leaves single market'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36629745
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 07:43:50 PM
I'm not really complaining as I don't know enough to have any strong views either way and how it will all play out. But I was concerned when I saw global stock markets fall, along with sterling, and Britain is now at risk of a credit downgrade.
you can still post your opinion holly,iam interested in your thoughts as many others are 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 26, 2016, 07:47:07 PM
Its about not wanting to participate in a Socialist experiment any more which would have had serious repercussions for our entire way of life. The UK is a sovereign State and should maintain the right to control our own destiny. Our factories were being raped and pillaged in some cases with the EU paying to have them removed to other countries. Artificial customs tariffs have been imposed on trade with non EU countries which restrict our ability to trade worldwide. We are subject to ridiculously stupid rules and regulations which are killing small business. Fishing, farming and just about every traditional industry in our country has been blighted and tainted by the EU. This had to stop and now it will!
But fishing, farming and traditional industry now forms a small part of our economy. Whether we like it or not the service sector is the dominant sector in the UK.
The economy is still fragile from the global financial crisis of 2008. A period of instability could easily lead to recession.
I don't see the EU making our exit easy and/or making any concessions. They will want to deter others from leaving!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 26, 2016, 07:49:14 PM
MP Nigel Evans has admitted immigration will not fall significantly as a result of Brexit, claiming the referendum result only means “control” rather than a reduction in numbers.
The Conservative MP told BBC Radio 5 live there had been “some misunderstanding” about the consequences of Brexit on immigration.
When asked to say if migration to the UK would fall significantly now the country was leaving the EU, Mr Evans answered: “No."
Control will be enhanced resulting in a drop in illegal immigration. In addition, being outside the EU means we can send the illegals home. Legal immigration will be at levels set by the government and not the EU.
As for Nigel Evans, well, nothing really.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 26, 2016, 07:54:29 PM
I didn't vote leave, but I am defending the result because voters voted and decided. That's democracy, which we are all supposed to believe in.
Our politicians are elected and paid to make the result work and they need to get on and do their jobs. Both sides should accept the result and concentrate on making the future as good as it can be for the voters.
But if we elect politicians should we then have referendums on single policy issues?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 07:57:41 PM
Control will be enhanced resulting in a drop in illegal immigration. In addition, being outside the EU means we can send the illegals home. Legal immigration will be at levels set by the government and not the EU.
As for Nigel Evans, well, nothing really.
Again, they have to be processed.
What is the cost of repatriation per person ?
What if the countries involved refuse to take them back ?
I'm afraid using the argument of refusing them aid won't wash. They would get aid from other sources.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 07:59:47 PM
So here is some imaginary news that wasn't going to happen, according to Brexit.
HSBC 'to move jobs to Paris if UK leaves single market'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36629745
i would like to tell the traitors to take their whole business to France and dont come back ,no doubt they will if we succeed,better off without them plenty of other banks from abroad are ready to fill the void ?>)()<
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 08:03:54 PM
But if we elect politicians should we then have referendums on single policy issues?
It would stop the situation we seem to be in now. People taking pens to make their vote unalterable because they distrust our institutions so much. We need something which reminds politicians who gave them the power they wield.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 08:07:30 PM
It would stop the situation we seem to be in now. People taking pens to make their vote unalterable because they distrust our institutions so much. We need something which reminds politicians who gave them the power they wield.
here here well said 8@??)(
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 08:10:38 PM
i would like to tell the traitors to take their whole business to France and dont come back ,no doubt they will if we succeed,better off without them plenty of other banks from abroad are ready to fill the void ?>)()<
Traitors ??? *&*%£
Which other banks are those then ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 08:23:07 PM
It would stop the situation we seem to be in now. People taking pens to make their vote unalterable because they distrust our institutions so much. We need something which reminds politicians who gave them the power they wield.
My Italian hairdresser (born in UK) said he was taking a pen to vote with!
Maybe the whole system needs changing whereby instead of voting for a particular party the electorate votes on all major policy issues via an electronic system?
I don't see why we had a referendum on the EU but not for example the Iraq war?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 08:25:07 PM
My Italian hairdresser (born in UK) said he was taking a pen to vote with!
Maybe the whole system needs changing whereby instead of voting for a particular party the electorate votes on all major policy issues via an electronic system?
I don't see why we had a referendum on the EU but not for example the Iraq war?
i agree holly in cases of war the people should decide 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 26, 2016, 09:21:13 PM
The facts and the truth about the Scottish vote.
(http://i.imgur.com/gLQvoCT.jpg?1)
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 26, 2016, 09:23:12 PM
To take one diverse area, tell me all about the West Midlands then. Who were those who voted leave there, with cites please.
Perhaps this will help, though a word of warning - it is from the MSM and not an anonymous blog so no doubt won't pass muster with you on the accuracy stakes.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 26, 2016, 10:05:41 PM
I think the mps who have stabbed Corbyn in the back like this are a disgrace Shouldnt have voted for him then, as whingy as some brexiters who now alledgedly want to change their vote Pathetic This shambles goes from bad to worse
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 26, 2016, 10:07:14 PM
Similarly in N Ireland:
(http://i.imgur.com/13arnRW.jpg)
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 10:10:18 PM
Brexit: Haunted Europe
The UK vote to leave throws into doubt the EU’s survival as support for expansion evaporates
This is what the crisis is really all about. The EU project is a dead duck in my opinion and what's more the EU Presidents all know it. This is them fighting for survival. If they had kept the Common Market and not attempted to integrate every country in Europe into one big federal institution they might have got away with it. Talk of a federal socialist United States of Europe and of a European Army just went too far.
The EU was effectively too big for its boots!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 10:16:39 PM
I think the mps who have stabbed Corbyn in the back like this are a disgrace Shouldnt have voted for him then, as whingy as some brexiters who now alledgedly want to change their vote Pathetic This shambles goes from bad to worse
They didn't vote for him!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 26, 2016, 10:18:38 PM
I think the mps who have stabbed Corbyn in the back like this are a disgrace Shouldnt have voted for him then, as whingy as some brexiters who now alledgedly want to change their vote Pathetic This shambles goes from bad to worse
here here.after he generously gave them positions in shadow cabinet ,the backstabbers should be expelled from the party 8()(((@#
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 10:19:26 PM
We all know the majority of the UK electorate wasn't achieved in the referendum for leaving the EU.
I think you misunderstand the reason for the graphics Stephen. It has more to do with independence I suspect than it is to do with the EU.
The majority under the law was achieved though in the referendum and that's what counts. The UK will leave the EU regardless of whinging Nicola Sturgeon.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 26, 2016, 10:30:05 PM
I think you misunderstand the reason for the graphics Stephen. It has more to do with independence I suspect than it is to do with the EU.
The majority under the law was achieved though in the referendum and that's what counts. The UK will leave the EU regardless of whinging Nicola Sturgeon.
We shall see what happens.
What is clearly happening is political chaos.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Admin on June 26, 2016, 10:34:56 PM
It is noticeable that Cameron is no Churchill. The first sign of dissent and he's off. Had Churchill done the same and turned his back on the country as our troops were fleeing Dunkirk we would all be one Europe now and speaking German. David Cameron has let the country down badly. Many people voted on the basis that he undertook to see the matter through to the end regardless of the outcome. He lied.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 26, 2016, 10:36:42 PM
here here.after he generously gave them positions in shadow cabinet ,the backstabbers should be expelled from the party 8()(((@#
Not sure why theyve walked out en masse in the first place, if its because he didnt do a good enough job persuading labour voters to vote remain, well, it seems NO ONE succeeded in getting the majorty of their supporters to vote a certain way, just because he ddnt resort to scaremongering like the others did? What did cameron and all tory remain mps achieve? what is the point in trying to break up labour party, if they thnk they can do better, let em try, they will get a load of vacuous mps floundering left right and centre, corbyn didnt get to his age in the party without knowing a thing or two, pathetic Oh well, seems most of british politics now is undergoing a tectonic plate movement, volcanoes and all ,lets see what the landscape looks like in a few years, not forgetting scotland will have another referendum and exit by looks
Eta and I wouldnt be surprised if blairs grubby hands were part of this If they thnk this is The way to avoid a power vaccuum and not left the ultra far right take over theyre deluded
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 26, 2016, 10:47:18 PM
It is noticeable that Cameron is no Churchill. The first sign of dissent and he's off. Had Churchill done the same and turned his back on the country as our troops were fleeing Dunkirk we would all be one Europe now and speaking German. David Cameron has let the country down badly. Many people voted on the basis that he undertook to see the matter through to the end regardless of the outcome. He lied.
So what.
Johnson, Gove, Garage and co., lied through their teeth.
They are all as bad as each other.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 26, 2016, 10:52:37 PM
Leading 'out' campaigner Boris Johnson says the margin by which the UK voted to leave the European Union was "not entirely overwhelming"
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak?lang=en-gb
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 26, 2016, 10:53:55 PM
Leading 'out' campaigner Boris Johnson says the margin by which the UK voted to leave the European Union was "not entirely overwhelming"
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak?lang=en-gb
It wasnt even slightly overwhelmng,what a prick
But it was a majority, so unless the law is changed to say how much of a majority is needed then its immaterial, same goes for general elections where we have the ridiculous first past the post system, dont see them claiming the majority wwsnt overwhelming
Obviously this problem wouldnt exist if any govt truly governed with everyones interests in mind
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 26, 2016, 11:02:16 PM
Oh right, lets get rid of democracy altogether then, half the tories are squabbling with each other and this no mark comes up with this idea, will go down like a lead balloon I imagine
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 26, 2016, 11:05:17 PM
But it was a majority, so unless the law is changed to say how much of a majority is needed then its immaterial, same goes for general elections where we have the ridiculous first past the post system, dont see them claiming the majority wwsnt overwhelming
Obviously this problem wouldnt exist if any govt truly governed with everyones interests in mind
That's correct, even if it had been a one vote majority the UK government would be bound to accept it.
Corbyn will hang on as long as he thinks he can get away with it. There is not much honour among any MP's these days.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 26, 2016, 11:11:54 PM
He blew that away when he thought he could have the top job and have friends as well.
This is true universally He thought being PM was no harder than going on big brother or something, like a little kid in a sweetshop he was when campaigning to become so, normally PMs go grey haired after a couple years in the job, his always stayed brown, probably chucked all the slog and decisions to others
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 11:16:21 PM
That's correct, even if it had been a one vote majority the UK government would be bound to accept it.
Corbyn will hang on as long as he thinks he can get away with it. There is not much honour among any MP's these days.
JC doesnt seem to be or given me any reason to thnk he is not honourable, just because hes not a bully like some of them, people think he has no nous, principles, stamina ,integrity or aces, hes not Blair, hes not Milliband hes not the flapping welsh guy (forget his name), he certainly puts Cameron and others under the thub screws in prime mnsters questions even if they evade and avoid the issues, but hes the bad guy it seems cos he has a beard is old not attractive and loyal to his party Id defend any tory or any other party member wh has been villified so much for no reason
Pathetic
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 11:20:52 PM
JC doesnt seem to be or given me any reason to thnk he is not honourable, just because hes not a bully like some of them, people think he has no nous, principles, stamina ,integrity or aces, hes not Blair, hes not Milliband hes not the flapping welsh guy (forget his name), he certainly puts Cameron and others under the thub screws in prime mnsters questions even if they evade and avoid the issues, but hes the bad guy it seems cos he has a beard is old not attractive and loyal to his party Id defend any tory or any other party member wh has been villified so much for no reason
Pathetic
What matters is not his looks or dress sense nor even principles, stamina and integrity really. What matters is if he can steer Labour to a victory at the next general election. Many Labour MPs (who presumably know a bit about these things) fear that he cannot. It's no good being a principled saint of a leader if you can't actually lead and inspire too
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 26, 2016, 11:40:19 PM
What matters is not his looks or dress sense nor even principles, stamina and integrity really. What matters is if he can steer Labour to a victory at the next general election. Many Labour MPs (who presumably know a bit about these things) fear that he cannot. It's no good being a principled saint of a leader if you can't actually lead and inspire too
Are they mystic megs? How do they know Labour cant win a GE with him as leader if the labour message/mission is communicated to the population,and is a winner, surely its the message not who delivers it.
They failed with Milliband twice, what makes them think another floosy/wrong person for the job will lead them to a victory. More years wasted. COrbyn hasnt even been given half a chance. Quick fixes never work.
As for inspration, well most of the population are s ocynical of the whole political world now , nt just in ths country, it is an uphill struggle for anybody to be clapped by millions. SUch is the damage done by the globalist capitalists
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 06:42:56 AM
Perhaps this will help, though a word of warning - it is from the MSM and not an anonymous blog so no doubt won't pass muster with you on the accuracy stakes.
The Guardian did lots of lovely maps and dropped lots of hints but;
While the measures demonstrate a strong correlation between a leave vote and education, income and class they are by no means the direct cause of a Brexit.
What you need to remember is;
outside the capital, every English region had a majority for leave. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/jun/24/the-areas-and-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won
It seems those lower class badly educated poorly paid people live...............everywhere.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 07:02:01 AM
What matters is not his looks or dress sense nor even principles, stamina and integrity really. What matters is if he can steer Labour to a victory at the next general election. Many Labour MPs (who presumably know a bit about these things) fear that he cannot. It's no good being a principled saint of a leader if you can't actually lead and inspire too
We shall see this week. He was never accepted by those who have stamped off, but he gave them a chance to work with him. From the beginning they have complained and undermined him so they didn't even try. He's still there though and they're not. Perhaps he can appoint a team now who will work with him, perhaps not, but if he wasn't getting messages of support I expect he would have gone by now.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 27, 2016, 07:39:42 AM
Legally, no. Morally? Well, the morals of our political classes haven't impressed me, but so far they seem to be saying they have accepted it.
the most important person...Cameron has not accepted it and has resigned rather than accept it
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 27, 2016, 08:03:01 AM
Plot to stop Britain's exit from the EU: Bitter losers from all parties gang up to try to overturn the referendum result - which was voted for by 17 million people
from todays Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 08:07:47 AM
The Guardian did lots of lovely maps and dropped lots of hints but;
While the measures demonstrate a strong correlation between a leave vote and education, income and class they are by no means the direct cause of a Brexit.
What you need to remember is;
outside the capital, every English region had a majority for leave. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/jun/24/the-areas-and-demographics-where-the-brexit-vote-was-won
It seems those lower class badly educated poorly paid people live...............everywhere.
yes, and what are you going to tell those who voted for Brexit that the prices of food, clothes and electricals are going to become even less affordable than before, as you have suggested they would and should?!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 08:09:25 AM
Boris is telling us there's no rush and seems to want his European cake and eat it now.... &%+((£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 27, 2016, 08:22:44 AM
Boris is telling us there's no rush and seems to want his European cake and eat it now.... &%+((£
Could this be a wake up call to the EU?
That there is concern about the direction of travel from trading bloc to federal state with political and fiscal integration, and this will result in a change to the EU.
Junker is keen to get on with it - my impression is he can see his power and position in danger of slipping away.
In my view Boris is right - a cool, clear and step by step approach is needed.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 08:25:30 AM
It is noticeable that Cameron is no Churchill. The first sign of dissent and he's off. Had Churchill done the same and turned his back on the country as our troops were fleeing Dunkirk we would all be one Europe now and speaking German. David Cameron has let the country down badly. Many people voted on the basis that he undertook to see the matter through to the end regardless of the outcome. He lied.
Cameron did not lie...your claim is untrue and libellous...but of course it will be allowed to stand
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 08:50:56 AM
Following cowardly Cameron's resignation Boris Johnson has leadership aspirations. Anything he says now he is saying with that in mind.
Why cowardly? He did absolutely the right thing by standing down. Would you entrust the removal of our country from the EU to a man who campaigned hard for us not to leave? Far better to be done by someone in charge who actually believes in what he or she is doing, don't you think?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 08:55:30 AM
Cameron did not lie...your claim is untrue and libellous...but of course it will be allowed to stand
I can't find a direct quote from Cameron, but the general consensus seems to be;
Cameron, they argue, had repeatedly said during the campaign that article 50 would be triggered immediately if Vote Leave were to win the Brexit referendum.
EU members expected Cameron to follow through;
The president of the European parliament, Martin Schulz, has said he expects Cameron to initiate the process on Tuesday evening, making the formal announcement that Britain intends to exit the EU at the summit dinner he is due to address before going home and leaving – for the first time – the other 27 member states to discuss Britain’s situation without him the following day. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/who-will-dare-pull-trigger-article-50-eu
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 08:58:29 AM
Why cowardly? He did absolutely the right thing by standing down. Would you entrust the removal of our country from the EU to a man who campaigned hard for us not to leave? Far better to be done by someone in charge who actually believes in what he or she is doing, don't you think?
All he had to do was tell the EU on Tuesday that the UK was invoking article 50. He could then stand down and leave the negotiations to his successor. That, in my opinion, was his duty fulfilled.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 09:07:37 AM
Boris did not give a monkey's about whether we are in or out.
It was all about his bid for power.
He and Cameron have been rivals for years going back to University.
The bottom line is Johnson and his fellows lied to the electorate and some were taken in by the B.S., others wanted out for other reasons.
Both sides lied to the electorate. I expect some voters on both sides believed the lies they wanted to believe. Others, as you say, had other reasons to vote the way they did. The result remains.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 09:10:07 AM
' Racist incidents feared to be linked to Brexit result '
I've already been called a racist, because I voted leave.
I don't mind being called racist for a being racist.
But I object to being called racist on the basis that I voted leave.
Try reading the story.
It does not say all brexit voters are racist, though some undoubtedly are.
' The Metropolitan police confirmed they had been called to the cultural centre on Sunday morning and were pursuing inquiries related to “allegedly racially motivated criminal damage”. '
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 27, 2016, 09:40:00 AM
Racism in this country would stop if all the foreigners went home.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 09:43:03 AM
Are you just the eternal wind up merchant or just plain ignorant.
Do you know what is meant by the designation 'Homo Sapiens Sapiens' ?
If you don't , look it up.
I'm just looking at the issue & blue sky thinking for a way to end racism.
No foreigners, no racism.
Seems like the simplest solution to me.
But perhaps not my final solution.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 10:12:38 AM
its just a matter of numbers ,no one is racists but we just cant cope with anymore the country will only get worse if nothings done
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 10:16:34 AM
also any money made in uk through working by eu workers should remain and be spent in the uk,we cant have someone sending 100's of pounds a month back to their own countrys in the eu.thats not on
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 10:17:10 AM
All he had to do was tell the EU on Tuesday that the UK was invoking article 50. He could then stand down and leave the negotiations to his successor. That, in my opinion, was his duty fulfilled.
Then why do you think he has not done so? Where does cowardice come into play? surely he would be being applauded by the majority of this country who voted leave for doing so.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 10:18:11 AM
'Spate of racist attacks blamed on Brexit vote'
Camilla Turner
26 JUNE 2016 • 6:58PM
The vote for Brexit has been blamed for a spate of racist attacks over the weekend - including “no more Polish vermin” cards posted through letter boxes and allegedly racist graffiti daubed across a Polish cultural centre.
Baroness Warsi suggested that the “divisive and xenophobic” Leave campaign bore responsibility for the "problems on our street", adding that a series of "really disturbing" hate crimes had taken place since the vote for Brexit.
Cambridgeshire Constabulary were investigating reports that laminated signs reading "Leave the EU - no more Polish vermin" had been posted to members of the Polish community in Huntingdon.
Detective Superintendent Martin Brunning said: “The production and distribution of this and any other similar material is committing the crime of inciting racial hatred,” adding that it carries a maximum sentence of seven years in prison.
The Polish President’s spokesman said the posters were “pure racism” and demanded that Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage condemn “this outrageous barbarity”.
also any money made in uk through working by eu workers should remain and be spent in the uk,we cant have someone sending 100's of pounds a month back to their own countrys in the eu.thats not on
Have you not comprehended yet, that both EU and non-EU immigrants have been net financial beneficiaries to this countries Economy ?
Get your head out of the sand and get real.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 10:22:21 AM
Then why do you think he has not done so? Where does cowardice come into play? surely he would be being applauded by the majority of this country who voted leave for doing so.
i think he has not done so for spite or he's hoping something will comeup so that he can get reinstated .like all politictions they never want to give up the TOP job.remember iron lady maggie was in tears after the night of the long knives when she was ousted
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 10:25:01 AM
Have you not comprehended yet, that both EU and non-EU immigrants have been net financial beneficiaries to this countries Economy ?
Get your head out of the sand and get real.
your the one who needs to take his head out the sand,incase you havnt noticed we voted leave,stop crying and accept it,when do you seep youve been at it now for 4 days solid @)(++(*l
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 10:26:59 AM
The vote for Brexit has been blamed for a spate of racist attacks over the weekend - including “no more Polish vermin” cards posted through letter boxes and allegedly racist graffiti daubed across a Polish cultural centre.
Baroness Warsi suggested that the “divisive and xenophobic” Leave campaign bore responsibility for the "problems on our street", adding that a series of "really disturbing" hate crimes had taken place since the vote for Brexit.
Cambridgeshire Constabulary were investigating reports that laminated signs reading "Leave the EU - no more Polish vermin" had been posted to members of the Polish community in Huntingdon.
Detective Superintendent Martin Brunning said: “The production and distribution of this and any other similar material is committing the crime of inciting racial hatred,” adding that it carries a maximum sentence of seven years in prison.
The Polish President’s spokesman said the posters were “pure racism” and demanded that Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage condemn “this outrageous barbarity”.
your the one who needs to take his head out the sand,incase you havnt noticed we voted leave,stop crying and accept it,when do you seep youve been at it now for 4 days solid @)(++(*l
Who is crying ?
We haven't left the EU yet. 8(0(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 10:40:17 AM
Then why do you think he has not done so? Where does cowardice come into play? surely he would be being applauded by the majority of this country who voted leave for doing so.
If you start something you should see it through not run away.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 27, 2016, 10:48:11 AM
He's not run away, he is still PM. He would presumably be popular with the majority if he were to trigger article 50, would he not?
What is really needed is a period of stability for the country. Cameron remaining to ease some of the problems of the governing party while it elects its new leader does that in small measure.
Opening Pandora's box has been a messy ill thought through exercise as far as our unwritten constitution is concerned and for the stability of the country. As some voices from the North of Ireland and Scotland would seem to confirm.
As a democrat I abide by the will of the majority, doesn't mean I have to like it though; it remains to be seen for how long the majority will be happy with it as grim reality hits home ~ particularly as no-one least of all the Brexiters seems to have taken the time to have laid the foundation for new trade deals or confirmation of old ones.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 11:22:43 AM
What is really needed is a period of stability for the country. Cameron remaining to ease some of the problems of the governing party while it elects its new leader does that in small measure.
Opening Pandora's box has been a messy ill thought through exercise as far as our unwritten constitution is concerned and for the stability of the country. As some voices from the North of Ireland and Scotland would seem to confirm.
As a democrat I abide by the will of the majority, doesn't mean I have to like it though; it remains to be seen for how long the majority will be happy with it as grim reality hits home ~ particularly as no-one least of all the Brexiters seems to have taken the time to have laid the foundation for new trade deals or confirmation of old ones.
cant be any worse than we have had already 40 odd yrs of being in the eu,and the country has gone to the dogs
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 11:27:34 AM
slipping 1 place is not bad at all considering we havnt started yet,all is bright steph 8((()*/
Yes, we'll be down to 10th by this time next year no doubt, and then where? But at least there'll be fewer of those pesky foreigners stealing our jobs and our womenfolk, eh? 8(0(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 11:35:44 AM
slipping 1 place is not bad at all considering we havnt started yet,all is bright steph 8((()*/
What exactly is 'bright' ?
There is political uncertainty.
Both main parties are at loggerheads internally.
The economic outlook is uncertain.
So again, how has the EU harmed you ?
An easy question to answer.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 11:36:25 AM
Some people seem to be falling for the suggestions that those who voted to leave the EU are;
Guilible Uneducated Lower class Poor
and now racist.
Strangely a lot of sinilar accusations have been leveled at those who doubt the McCann's abduction story. That's consistent in respect of those who doubt the McCanns and support the 'leave' vote, but inconsistent in respect of those who doubt the McCanns and support the 'remain' vote.
You can hold different opinions on different issues, but if you're lacking in judgement on one issue you're likely to be lacking in judgement on the other too.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 11:37:00 AM
Yes, we'll be down to 10th by this time next year no doubt, and then where? But at least there'll be fewer of those pesky foreigners stealing our jobs and our womenfolk, eh? 8(0(*
Nice one Alfie. 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 11:39:50 AM
Some people seem to be falling for the suggestions that those who voted to leave the EU are;
Guilible Uneducated Lower class Poor
and now racist.
Strangely a lot of sinilar accusations have been leveled at those who doubt the McCann's abduction story. That's consistent in respect of those who doubt the McCanns and support the 'leave' vote, but inconsistent in respect of those who doubt the McCanns and support the 'remain' vote.
You can hold different opinions on different issues, but if you're lacking in judgement on one issue you're likely to be lacking in judgement on the other too.
Some are racist.
Some did not even know what they voted for.
Some believe we are better by ourselves.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 27, 2016, 11:43:43 AM
Cameron at 3.50
"You will decide and whatever your decision I will do my best to deliver it".
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 27, 2016, 11:51:14 AM
As I stated last week, George Osborne has been working behind the scenes to stabilize the economy following the Brexit vote.
This morning he delivered his statement.
At 1.30
"And now that the people have spoken, we in this democracy must accept that result and deliver on that instruction."
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 11:53:21 AM
Some people seem to be falling for the suggestions that those who voted to leave the EU are;
Guilible Uneducated Lower class Poor
and now racist.
Strangely a lot of sinilar accusations have been leveled at those who doubt the McCann's abduction story. That's consistent in respect of those who doubt the McCanns and support the 'leave' vote, but inconsistent in respect of those who doubt the McCanns and support the 'remain' vote.
You can hold different opinions on different issues, but if you're lacking in judgement on one issue you're likely to be lacking in judgement on the other too.
Oh please. Not everyone who voted Leave is a racist, but certainly most racists in this country voted Leave. As for the rest, I don't know why you seek to deny the fact that in large part it is the less privileged in society, some of whom have come out to vote for the first time in their lives, those who feel betrayed by Labour and who feel that the only party that now understands them is UKIP (and other less savoury Nationalist parties) who have had a major impact on this result. Why does that seem to grate with you so?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 11:57:19 AM
Oh please. Not everyone who voted Leave is a racist, but certainly most racists in this country voted Leave. As for the rest, I don't know why you seek to deny the fact that in large part it is the less privileged in society, some of whom have come out to vote for the first time in their lives, those who feel betrayed by Labour and who feel that the only party that now understands them is UKIP (and other less savoury Nationalist parties) who have had a major impact on this result. Why does that seem to grate with you so?
You seem to be convinced that is true. It has certainly been inferred, but proved? I think not. That's what grates with me, innuendo being accepted and presented as truth.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 12:48:18 PM
Yes, we'll be down to 10th by this time next year no doubt, and then where? But at least there'll be fewer of those pesky foreigners stealing our jobs and our womenfolk, eh? 8(0(*
with people like you around we might,stop worrying your selfs and give it a chance 8)--))
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Brietta on June 27, 2016, 12:48:40 PM
It has been confirmed, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon does not have the power to veto #Brexit.
As I said, John, it is a constitutional mess.
The previous referendum in Scotland was very divisive and the effects of that are still being felt.
We have just had a demonstration in this referendum of the annulment of many of the arguments which carried the day for the BETTER TOGETHER campaign. It was a close run thing.
Whether or not the first minister is able to block Brexit ... it is worth bearing in mind that the majority of the contingent of elected representatives from Scotland in Westminster are Nats. To date their behaviour has been on the whole impeccable but it is a different ball game now. I would warn ... "You ain't seen nothin' yet!" Parliament could turn out to be a very interesting theatre for them to perform in (and for the rest of us to watch) when their leash is loosened.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 12:52:26 PM
on a lighter note 2 shadow cabinit jobs have been filled by people who will support jc not stab him in the back.i said there we plenty of others to fill the backstabbers jobs 8((()*/
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 27, 2016, 12:59:28 PM
What is really needed is a period of stability for the country. Cameron remaining to ease some of the problems of the governing party while it elects its new leader does that in small measure.
Opening Pandora's box has been a messy ill thought through exercise as far as our unwritten constitution is concerned and for the stability of the country. As some voices from the North of Ireland and Scotland would seem to confirm.
As a democrat I abide by the will of the majority, doesn't mean I have to like it though; it remains to be seen for how long the majority will be happy with it as grim reality hits home ~ particularly as no-one least of all the Brexiters seems to have taken the time to have laid the foundation for new trade deals or confirmation of old ones.
They can't until Article 50 in invoked. Then the fun starts. At present we in the same position as the Grand Old Duke of York. "neither up nor down". EU negotiator: So Mr UK you wish to remain in the single market? UK negotiator: Yes EU negotiator: We can see how that would be beneficial to you; what will you give us in exchange. UK negotiator: Nothing EU negotiator: Close the door on the way out please. UK negotiator: 'ang on a mo what do you want then ? EU negotiator: Free movement of labour. UK negotiator: OK then it's a deal. EU negotiator: and compliance with our directives as appropriate. UK negotiator: Any room for maneuvre on that. EU negotiator: Not a lot; do you want to be in the single market or not? it comes at a price. Norway warned you of that before your referendum. UK negotiator: OK we will stay out of the single market. EU negotiator: Fair enough but if you wish to sell goods into the single market you must observe all appropriate EU directives. UK negotiator: errr errr errm ?
Of course some think that because the Germans want to sell BMWs and Bosch whitegoods here and the French want to sell champagne here that gives us a lot of clout. 8(0(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 12:59:54 PM
on a lighter note 2 shadow cabinit jobs have been filled by people who will support jc not stab him in the back.i said there we plenty of others to fill the backstabbers jobs 8((()*/
on a lighter note 2 shadow cabinit jobs have been filled by people who will support jc not stab him in the back.i said there we plenty of others to fill the backstabbers jobs 8((()*/
I don't think it is as simple as that, Rotti. He never was Prime Ministerial material ... and he has proved that during the campaign as he was unable to give the lead to Labour voters ... perhaps because his heart really wasn't in it.
If he is unable to reach the Labour grass roots voters, what chance does he have of reaching out to anyone else in the country, 'undecided' or not? Great to have principles ... but to implement them, you've got to be in power.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 01:04:38 PM
Corbyn asked which way he voted.
There was no reply.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 01:05:30 PM
They can't until Article 50 in invoked. Then the fun starts. At present we in the same position as the Grand Old Duke of York. "neither up nor down". EU negotiator: So Mr UK you wish to remain in the single market? UK negotiator: Yes EU negotiator: We can see how that would be beneficial to you; what will you give us in exchange. UK negotiator: Nothing EU negotiator: Close the door on the way out please. UK negotiator: 'ang on a mo what do you want then ? EU negotiator: Free movement of labour. UK negotiator: OK then it's a deal. EU negotiator: and compliance with our directives as appropriate. UK negotiator: Any room for maneuvre on that. EU negotiator: Not a lot; do you want to be in the single market or not? it comes at a price. Norway warned you of that before your referendum. UK negotiator: OK we will stay out of the single market. EU negotiator: Fair enough but if you wish to sell goods into the single market you must observe all appropriate EU directives. UK negotiator: errr errr errm ?
Of course some think that because the Germans want to sell BMWs and Bosch whitegoods here and the French want to sell champagne here that gives us a lot of clout. 8(0(*
I think they are going to skin us alive, Alice. I would were I them and had elections looming.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 27, 2016, 01:07:43 PM
on a lighter note 2 shadow cabinit jobs have been filled by people who will support jc not stab him in the back.i said there we plenty of others to fill the backstabbers jobs 8((()*/
So far he hasn't rolled over and given in to those who thought they were so important that if they resigned he couldn't carry on. He has also promised he will stand again if they force a leadership election. Has he called their bluff? I guess we will have to wait and see what happens next. They may have played into his hands, you never know.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 01:15:49 PM
You seem to be convinced that is true. It has certainly been inferred, but proved? I think not. That's what grates with me, innuendo being accepted and presented as truth.
It's not just me saying it, it's every paper, every analysis of the demographical data, every news commentator, every Labour politician. If you refuse to accept it then that's your choice but it strikes me as very odd behaviour on your part. Which bit do you consider to be innuendo or untrue?
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 27, 2016, 01:16:41 PM
I think they are going to skin us alive, Alice. I would were I them and had elections looming.
Yeah but we got our borders back. I wasn't aware we had lost them mind. Punch line of joke. Latvian kid at school when asked where the English border is "in bed wiv me mum that's why I had FA for breakfast miss"
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 01:16:47 PM
with people like you around we might,stop shitting your selfs and give it a chance 8)--))
I never started shitting myselfs but thanks for the advice. 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 01:18:42 PM
Well Boris has now changed his tune.
He now wants the UK to stay in the single market.
Immigration is not the most important issue.
As just reported on the BBC News.
Also, apparently, Tom Watson, Deputy leader of the Labour Party has suggested apparently for Corbyn to fall his sword, after 28 resignations from the Shadow Cabinet.
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 01:19:50 PM
Yeah but we got our borders back. I wasn't aware we had lost them mind. Punch line of joke. Latvian kid at school when asked where the English border is "in bed wiv me mum that's why I had FA for breakfast miss"
Naughty but nice. 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 01:19:56 PM
So far he hasn't rolled over and given in to those who thought they were so important that if they resigned he couldn't carry on. He has also promised he will stand again if they force a leadership election. Has he called their bluff? I guess we will have to wait and see what happens next. They may have played into his hands, you never know.
If he was really clever he'd out himself as a Leaver and promise to do all he can to ensure a smooth and successful remvoval from the EU. Then he might stand a chance of winning the next election. It would mean performing a major U-turn of course.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 01:20:28 PM
Also, apparently, Tom Watson, Deputy leader of the Labour Party has suggested apparently for Corbyn to fall his sword, after 28 resignations from the Shadow Cabinet.
stay in the single market......you are getting confused...Brexit is about EU membership...not access to the european market
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 01:34:22 PM
It's not just me saying it, it's every paper, every analysis of the demographical data, every news commentator, every Labour politician. If you refuse to accept it then that's your choice but it strikes me as very odd behaviour on your part. Which bit do you consider to be innuendo or untrue?
People like to suggest simple explanations to complex questions. In reality a complex question require complex answers;
Political scientists will argue over the significance of education status in the referendum. You don't need a degree, however, to see how Corby's recent history played its part in the result, too http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36624413
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 01:44:06 PM
Also, apparently, Tom Watson, Deputy leader of the Labour Party has suggested apparently for Corbyn to fall his sword, after 28 resignations from the Shadow Cabinet.
A spokesman for Mr Corbyn said the leader was "categorically not" told to quit by Mr Watson. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36638041
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 01:48:22 PM
A spokesman for Mr Corbyn said the leader was "categorically not" told to quit by Mr Watson. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36638041
We shall see on that.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 02:14:34 PM
People like to suggest simple explanations to complex questions. In reality a complex question require complex answers;
Political scientists will argue over the significance of education status in the referendum. You don't need a degree, however, to see how Corby's recent history played its part in the result, too http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36624413
OK, have it your way. There is no correlation whatsoever between class, age, education and wealth and how people voted on Friday. Happy now? That said, do you agree that a significant percentage of those who voted "leave" will be from the less well-off sector of society? If so, can we get back to the original question I asked which you have twice avoided answering:
yes, and what are you going to tell those who voted for Brexit that the prices of food, clothes and electricals are going to become even less affordable than before, as you have suggested they would and should?!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 27, 2016, 02:19:53 PM
The previous referendum in Scotland was very divisive and the effects of that are still being felt.
We have just had a demonstration in this referendum of the annulment of many of the arguments which carried the day for the BETTER TOGETHER campaign. It was a close run thing.
Whether or not the first minister is able to block Brexit ... it is worth bearing in mind that the majority of the contingent of elected representatives from Scotland in Westminster are Nats. To date their behaviour has been on the whole impeccable but it is a different ball game now. I would warn ... "You ain't seen nothin' yet!" Parliament could turn out to be a very interesting theatre for them to perform in (and for the rest of us to watch) when their leash is loosened.
I don't agree that many of the arguments put forward in support of #brexit are defunct, it is very much early days.
Sturgeon is an upstart, an opportunist who does not speak for the majority of people in Scotland. The fact is that the SNP represent around a million voters out of an electorate of over four million, not exactly an overwhelming mandate to even consider independence, but then she knows that. Sturgeon might be ambitious but she isn't stupid, she knows that like Salmond, a failed indy vote would mean the end of her career as Scots leader.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 02:23:23 PM
I don't agree that many of the arguments put forward in support of #brexit are defunct, it is very much early days.
Sturgeon is an upstart, an opportunist who does not speak for the majority of people in Scotland. The fact is that the SNP represent around a million voters out of an electorate of over four million, not exactly an overwhelming mandate to ever consider independence, but then she knows that. Sturgeon might be ambitious but she iisnt stupid, she knows that like Salmond, a failed Indy vote would mean the end of her career as Scots leader.
What about Johnson ?
An upstart and opportunist.
He used the referendum in an attempt to gain power, and if you think otherwise, you are mistaken.
Under 25% of the electorate voted for the Conservative government ? 8)--))
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: John on June 27, 2016, 02:26:12 PM
Of course some think that because the Germans want to sell BMWs and Bosch whitegoods here and the French want to sell champagne here that gives us a lot of clout. 8(0(*
It does put us in a great negotiating position. The Germans in particular will be crapping themselves in case their car industry is damaged. However, Britain's imminent exit is by no means the end of it, there are rumblings from other countries who now wish a referendum vote. Marine Le Pen will not stop until President Hollande agrees to a referendum in France and hevknoiws what the outcome will be thus why he is refusing one. Democracy at its best under the EU.
It does put us in a great negotiating position. The Germans in particular will be crapping themselves in case their car industry is damaged. However, Britain's imminent exit is by no means the end of it, there are rumblings from other countries who now wish a referendum vote.
Great negotiating position. @)(++(* @)(++(*
Don't think so.
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: Angelo222 on June 27, 2016, 02:34:21 PM
It does put us in a great negotiating position. The Germans in particular will be crapping themselves in case their car industry is damaged. However, Britain's imminent exit is by no means the end of it, there are rumblings from other countries who now wish a referendum vote. Marine Le Pen will not stop until President Hollande agrees to a referendum in France and hevknoiws what the outcome will be thus why he is refusing one. Democracy at its best under the EU.
The EU sells much more to us than we do to them so it is in their interest and the interest of their manufacturing industry to maintain the status quo.
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 02:39:45 PM
The EU sells much more to us than we do to them so it is in their interest and the interest of their manufacturing industry to maintain the status quo.
This is becoming such a cliché. Isn't it possible that preventing the EU's total collapse might just take precedence over continued trade on favourable terms with the UK?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 02:40:30 PM
OK, have it your way. There is no correlation whatsoever between class, age, education and wealth and how people voted on Friday. Happy now? That said, do you agree that a significant percentage of those who voted "leave" will be from the less well-off sector of society? If so, can we get back to the original question I asked which you have twice avoided answering:
yes, and what are you going to tell those who voted for Brexit that the prices of food, clothes and electricals are going to become even less affordable than before, as you have suggested they would and should?!
There is a correlation, but a correlation is not the same as a cause. For all we know there's a correlation between baldness and voting leave. Does that mean people voted to leave because they were bald? That's the absurdity of correlations, they don't fulfill the requirements of cause and effect. You could just as easily say being inclined to vote 'leave' 'causes' that type of person to prefer not to enter higher education.
Almost the whole of the regions in England a Wales voted 'leave'. I have no idea which people actually voted which way within those regions. It would be easy to hang around outside a polling station and ask people. Whether they would a] tell you or b] tell the truth I couldn't say.
I would guess that those who live alongside poorer immigrants are likely to be lower class. elderly and/or poor themselves. Their experiences of immigration would differ from the higher and more affluent classes and may well have affected the way they voted.
I don't remember saying prices should or would rise? I remember saying UK manufacturers could make high quality made in Britain goods as an alternative to trying to compete with cheap goods from low wage economies.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 02:41:40 PM
I don't agree that many of the arguments put forward in support of #brexit are defunct, it is very much early days.
Sturgeon is an upstart, an opportunist who does not speak for the majority of people in Scotland. The fact is that the SNP represent around a million voters out of an electorate of over four million, not exactly an overwhelming mandate to even consider independence, but then she knows that. Sturgeon might be ambitious but she isn't stupid, she knows that like Salmond, a failed indy vote would mean the end of her career as Scots leader.
anecdotally I know a number of Scottish people who did not vote for Scottish independence at the last referendum who are now keen to vote yes at the next one.
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: John on June 27, 2016, 02:46:04 PM
The EU sells much more to us than we do to them so it is in their interest and the interest of their manufacturing industry to maintain the status quo.
The majority of the UK’s motor vehicle imports are from the EU, consistently accounting for over 85% of total motor vehicle imports each year since 1998. Imports from the EU have grown from £14.3 billion to £31.3 billion between 1998 and 2014, whereas imports from non-EU countries have grown from £2.2 billion to £4.0 billion over the same period.
In 1998, a broadly similar composition to imports existed for UK exports; exports of motors vehicles to the EU accounted for three quarters of total motor vehicle exports. This has changed noticeably, with exports to non-EU countries growing at a faster rate than exports to EU countries. Consequently, the share of total motor vehicle manufacturing exports to the EU has fallen to 40%. Exports to non-EU countries have grown from £2.9 billion to £17.9 billion from 1998 to 2014, whereas exports to EU countries have grown from £8.0 billion to £11.9 billion over the same period. The strong demand for exported UK cars is widely reported by car manufacturing trade body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).
anecdotally I know a number of Scottish people who did not vote for Scottish independence at the last referendum who are now keen to vote yes at the next one.
and?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 27, 2016, 02:49:13 PM
anecdotally I know a number of Scottish people who did not vote for Scottish independence at the last referendum who are now keen to vote yes at the next one.
Voting for indy and bankruptcy is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas. Most Scots aren't that stupid.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 03:05:22 PM
There is a correlation, but a correlation is not the same as a cause. For all we know there's a correlation between baldness and voting leave. Does that mean people voted to leave because they were bald? That's the absurdity of correlations, they don't fulfill the requirements of cause and effect. You could just as easily say being inclined to vote 'leave' 'causes' that type of person to prefer not to enter higher education.
Almost the whole of the regions in England a Wales voted 'leave'. I have no idea which people actually voted which way within those regions. It would be easy to hang around outside a polling station and ask people. Whether they would a] tell you or b] tell the truth I couldn't say.
I would guess that those who live alongside poorer immigrants are likely to be lower class. elderly and/or poor themselves. Their experiences of immigration would differ from the higher and more affluent classes and may well have affected the way they voted.
I don't remember saying prices should or would rise? I remember saying UK manufacturers could make high quality made in Britain goods as an alternative to trying to compete with cheap goods from low wage economies.
And do you think UK manufacturers can produce high quality goods at the same price as cheap goods from low wage economies?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 03:11:28 PM
Thousands of people are to descend on parliament to demand Jeremy Corbyn keeps his job.
Amid mass resignations in the shadow cabinet, supporters of the Labour leader are being urged to march on Parliament Square to demand that Corbyn stays as Labour leader.
The event was posted onto Facebook by the Momentum campaign group, in the wake of the resignation of a large number of Corbyn’s shadow cabinet. In the hours after the event, thousands of people have said that they will be at the event, which begins at 6pm.
Shadow chancellor John McDonnell and Diane Abbott – both high-profile supporters of Corbyn’s leadership – are to speak at the event. Other high-profile Corbyn allies such as journalist Paul Mason and trade unionists will also speak at the event.
It is being supported by a hashtag campaign that urges people to tweet with #KeepCorbyn.
Those behind the event have said that it is a reaction to what they see as a right-wing takeover of the Labour party, against the wishes of its membership.
“The future is uncertain,” reads a message on the event’s page. “We face a Tory Brexit, Cameron has resigned and we are likely to have a general election in the coming months with the potential of Britain lurching yet further to the right.
“A small number of Labour MPs are using this as an opportunity to oust Jeremy, disrespect the Labour membership who elected him and disregard our movement for a new kind of politics.
“We cannot let this undemocratic behaviour succeed.”
The Facebook page is busy with messages of support for the protest, from people urging others to attend.
“Let's be clear this is not a small number of MPs this is the full scale right wing revolt,” writes one user. “The PLP is again treating Labour membership with complete contempt.”
But others have written on its wall to support those MPs who have been sacked or have resigned in protest at Mr Corbyn’s leadership. “No point in leading a government for the people if your peers do not support you,” writes one user.
Blame u-turn Cameron. He changed the game after the result was known and now hasn't the bottle to see it through.
You think it's Cameron's fault the economy is in turmoil? Behave! Though granted, he is to blame for deciding to hold a referendum in the first place - bloody silly idea if you ask me.
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 27, 2016, 04:11:41 PM
It does put us in a great negotiating position. The Germans in particular will be crapping themselves in case their car industry is damaged. However, Britain's imminent exit is by no means the end of it, there are rumblings from other countries who now wish a referendum vote. Marine Le Pen will not stop until President Hollande agrees to a referendum in France and hevknoiws what the outcome will be thus why he is refusing one. Democracy at its best under the EU.
You think it's Cameron's fault the economy is in turmoil? Behave! Though granted, he is to blame for deciding to hold a referendum in the first place - bloody silly idea if you ask me.
He is to blame for resigning so quickly leaving the financial markets to second guess what happens next.
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: John on June 27, 2016, 04:13:14 PM
I don't agree that many of the arguments put forward in support of #brexit are defunct, it is very much early days.
Sturgeon is an upstart, an opportunist who does not speak for the majority of people in Scotland. The fact is that the SNP represent around a million voters out of an electorate of over four million, not exactly an overwhelming mandate to even consider independence, but then she knows that. Sturgeon might be ambitious but she isn't stupid, she knows that like Salmond, a failed indy vote would mean the end of her career as Scots leader.
I think "stunned" is the word which best applies to post Brexit Scotland.
38% of the electorate in Scotland voted to leave Europe http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-brexit-vote-means-scotland-8277535 So not by any manner of means a clear cut "Scotland voted to remain in Europe" ... a majority did, but Scotland is not a homogeneous mass.
44.7% of the electorate who voted in the Scottish Referendum for 'independence' were in favour of the YES vote to separate from Great Britain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014 "NO" had a majority which in my opinion was uncomfortably tight. Politics did settle a little, but there remained a volatile undercurrent ... it remains to be seen who is going to pick up on that and be able to use it either for short term political advantage, or for the greater good.
I think you tend to underestimate the 'nippy sweetie' Sturgeon. I have watched her career with interest and must disagree with your assessment of her. As First Minister of Scotland, she does indeed represent the people of Scotland. You and I may not like it, but that's democracy for you.
The trick for her now will be looking as if she is acting on behalf of those who did not vote for her while keeping her own support happy, which is not an easy balance to strike.
She trained under a very slippery politician indeed but is not prone to the gaffes he was frequently capable of making.
In my opinion she will take full advantage of the current situation and she will turn it to her advantage ... I think she has a fair chance of taking the people of Scotland with her. As you know, it has long been a complaint that the people of Scotland seldom get the government they vote for. Never has it been made more apparent than in the Brexit result. "Cometh the hour, cometh the woman."
If the politician that Nicola Sturgeon has worked at becoming cannot and does not manipulate the present enormity to further the raison d'être of her whole political life, I will be astounded.
As a footnote ... I am seriously concerned about the peace process in Northern Ireland ... I don't think the people of these islands have been in such danger, possibly since the threat of invasion during the second world war, and this is just the beginning.
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 04:31:54 PM
For the millionth time, they sell us much more than we sell them. Simple economics apply.
Well give us the figures, including the money we make from Financial services to Europe per year, for exports and imports to and from Europe, with a cite.
No percentages by the way.
Actual monetary sums only.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 04:32:40 PM
I think "stunned" is the word which best applies to post Brexit Scotland.
38% of the electorate in Scotland voted to leave Europe http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-brexit-vote-means-scotland-8277535 So not by any manner of means a clear cut "Scotland voted to remain in Europe" ... a majority did, but Scotland is not a homogeneous mass.
44.7% of the electorate who voted in the Scottish Referendum for 'independence' were in favour of the YES vote to separate from Great Britain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014 "NO" had a majority which in my opinion was uncomfortably tight. Politics did settle a little, but there remained a volatile undercurrent ... it remains to be seen who is going to pick up on that and be able to use it either for short term political advantage, or for the greater good.
I think you tend to underestimate the 'nippy sweetie' Sturgeon. I have watched her career with interest and must disagree with your assessment of her. As First Minister of Scotland, she does indeed represent the people of Scotland. You and I may not like it, but that's democracy for you.
The trick for her now will be looking as if she is acting on behalf of those who did not vote for her while keeping her own support happy, which is not an easy balance to strike.
She trained under a very slippery politician indeed but is not prone to the gaffes he was frequently capable of making.
In my opinion she will take full advantage of the current situation and she will turn it to her advantage ... I think she has a fair chance of taking the people of Scotland with her. As you know, it has long been a complaint that the people of Scotland seldom get the government they vote for. Never has it been made more apparent than in the Brexit result. "Cometh the hour, cometh the woman."
If the politician that Nicola Sturgeon has worked at becoming cannot and does not manipulate the present enormity to further the raison d'être of her whole political life, I will be astounded.
As a footnote ... I am seriously concerned about the peace process in Northern Ireland ... I don't think the people of these islands have been in such danger, possibly since the threat of invasion during the second world war, and this is just the beginning.
Please expand?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 04:33:45 PM
I think "stunned" is the word which best applies to post Brexit Scotland.
38% of the electorate in Scotland voted to leave Europe http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-brexit-vote-means-scotland-8277535 So not by any manner of means a clear cut "Scotland voted to remain in Europe" ... a majority did, but Scotland is not a homogeneous mass.
44.7% of the electorate who voted in the Scottish Referendum for 'independence' were in favour of the YES vote to separate from Great Britain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014 "NO" had a majority which in my opinion was uncomfortably tight. Politics did settle a little, but there remained a volatile undercurrent ... it remains to be seen who is going to pick up on that and be able to use it either for short term political advantage, or for the greater good.
I think you tend to underestimate the 'nippy sweetie' Sturgeon. I have watched her career with interest and must disagree with your assessment of her. As First Minister of Scotland, she does indeed represent the people of Scotland. You and I may not like it, but that's democracy for you.
The trick for her now will be looking as if she is acting on behalf of those who did not vote for her while keeping her own support happy, which is not an easy balance to strike.
She trained under a very slippery politician indeed but is not prone to the gaffes he was frequently capable of making.
In my opinion she will take full advantage of the current situation and she will turn it to her advantage ... I think she has a fair chance of taking the people of Scotland with her. As you know, it has long been a complaint that the people of Scotland seldom get the government they vote for. Never has it been made more apparent than in the Brexit result. "Cometh the hour, cometh the woman."
If the politician that Nicola Sturgeon has worked at becoming cannot and does not manipulate the present enormity to further the raison d'être of her whole political life, I will be astounded.
As a footnote ... I am seriously concerned about the peace process in Northern Ireland ... I don't think the people of these islands have been in such danger, possibly since the threat of invasion during the second world war, and this is just the beginning.
For one of the few times, we agree Brietta.
If and we officially leave the EU, there will be a push in Northern Ireland for a referendum to unite the two parts of Ireland, and that could well have major consequences with sectarian warfare breaking out again, and since the Catholic population is now almost the same as the Protestants...............
The trick for her now will be looking as if she is acting on behalf of those who did not vote for her while keeping her own support happy, which is not an easy balance to strike.
She trained under a very slippery politician indeed but is not prone to the gaffes he was frequently capable of making.
In my opinion she will take full advantage of the current situation and she will turn it to her advantage ... I think she has a fair chance of taking the people of Scotland with her. As you know, it has long been a complaint that the people of Scotland seldom get the government they vote for. Never has it been made more apparent than in the Brexit result. "Cometh the hour, cometh the woman."
If the politician that Nicola Sturgeon has worked at becoming cannot and does not manipulate the present enormity to further the raison d'être of her whole political life, I will be astounded.
As a footnote ... I am seriously concerned about the peace process in Northern Ireland ... I don't think the people of these islands have been in such danger, possibly since the threat of invasion during the second world war, and this is just the beginning.
She won't call a new vote on #indy because she will lose, its that simple.
There are no concerns in N Ireland. There never was a customs hard border and there won't be one after #brexit. The only people who are stirring up trouble are republicans who like the Scottish Nationalists have their own agenda.
As with Scotland and #indy, a vote for a united Ireland would fail.
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 27, 2016, 04:58:23 PM
"British eurosceptics claim that the case for British membership has been weakened by the fall in the proportion of the UK’s trade accounted for by the EU. They argue that, in the event of an exit, Britain would have little trouble negotiating a free trade agreement with the EU because the UK has a large trade deficit with the rest of the Union: if trade barriers between Britain and the remaining member-states were erected upon exit, the EU would lose more exports earnings from Britain than vice versa. At the same time, the UK would be freed from the burdens of EU regulation and hence able to boost trade with faster growing parts of the world, by eliminating tariffs and signing trade agreements without the constraints of EU membership. Underpinning this assertion is the belief that the UK is a big enough economy to be an effective trade negotiator in its own right. On the face of it, these arguments are persuasive. But they are simplistic and misleading. "
"But the UK would be wrong to assume that it could dictate terms in any negotiation with the EU by virtue of the fact that it is running a trade deficit. first, the EU buys half of Britain’s exports whereas the UK accounts for little over 10 per cent of exports from the rest of the EU, so the UK would be in a weak position to negotiate access on its terms. Second, half of the EU’s trade surplus with the UK is accounted for by just two member-states: Germany and the Netherlands. Most EU member-states do not run substantial trade surpluses with the UK, and some run deficits with it. Any agreement would require the assent of the remaining 27 members, some of whom buy more from Britain than they sell to it"
Title: Re: Re: EU membership, should we stay or leave?
Post by: rotti on June 27, 2016, 04:59:06 PM
Well give us the figures, including the money we make from Financial services to Europe per year, for exports and imports to and from Europe, with a cite.
No percentages by the way.
Actual monetary sums only.
next you'll be asking what the ins and outs of a ducks arse are @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Brietta on June 27, 2016, 05:28:05 PM
She won't call a new vote on #indy because she will lose, its that simple.
There are no concerns in N Ireland. There never was a customs hard border and there won't be one after #brexit. The only people who are stirring up trouble are republicans who like the Scottish Nationalists have their own agenda.
As with Scotland and #indy, a vote for a united Ireland would fail.
LOL John, as a child I was a 'mule' used to carry family and new jewellery from the South and through customs. My husband recounts similar stories of train journeys from Dublin to Belfast. I don't remember if there were customs checks both sides of the border, but I do remember on train checks.
On a sailing from Glasgow to Dublin as a teenager my friend ended up having her luggage upended and emptied out for searching on the customs table at the quay because she made a stupid quip to the officers.
I'm not as au fait with Irish politics as I am with the Scottish but I know enough to be worried about the situation in both countries.
Already there are calls for a referendum on Irish unification and a strain on relationships between the DUP and Sinn Fein. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683490/EU-referendum-Martin-McGuinness-calls-border-poll-unification-Brexit-vote
I comprehend the feeling of disenfranchisement felt by some in Scotland for the first time. It used to be four years (now a fixed term of five) until you could have another bite at the cherry and perhaps change governments. Brexit is final.
I will be amazed if the Scottish Nationalists are not putting the finishing touches to their take on this unimaginable opportunity which is win win for them. They are consummate campaigners and they have left all other parties way behind when it comes to foot soldiers and polling the electorate. They will move on independence only if they think can win ... but they will milk this for all it is worth anyway.
I am not sure they will fail this time round ... all they have to do is play the hand Brexit has given them and consummate politician that she is, if anyone can pull it off it is Sturgeon.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 27, 2016, 06:18:54 PM
Can't we all just stop this petty arguing now & just concentrate on being British.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 27, 2016, 08:16:48 PM
Can't we all just stop this petty arguing now & just concentrate on being British.
Being British..as long as anyone calling themselves British doesnt act like the nazis towards foreigners as some seem to think they have been given carte blanche to do so, the very people the British (and alot of Europeans of course) fought against so much in the last world war!
Seen some shocking stuff on the news tonight. Project Fear may have been a slogan but its now become reality for alot of people.
Such a shame all the right discussions by all the country and not just the political and media classes did not take place before the vote, then not so many would be now , where they are
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 08:27:49 PM
I see forum fave Kelvin McKenzie is now regretting his vote for leave, as apparently are 1.1 million others. tw..s.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 27, 2016, 08:32:14 PM
I see forum fave Kelvin McKenzie is now regretting his vote for leave, as apparently are 1.1 million others. tw..s.
'tw..s' now now alfie &%+((£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 09:21:21 PM
"I'm pretty cautious about some of the motives of those who are saying we should take our time. I'm nervous. I'm more nervous than I was on Friday morning. I'm beginning to hear noises, I'm beginning to detect there may be some backsliding and I don't find that acceptable." Nigel Farage, earlier today
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2016, 09:42:08 PM
One of my favourite journalists;
Millions of ordinary people refused to be bullied, intimidated and dismissed with open contempt by their presumed betters in the major parties, the leaders of the business and banking oligarchy and the media. http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-the-british-said-no-to-europe
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 27, 2016, 09:51:28 PM
"I'm pretty cautious about some of the motives of those who are saying we should take our time. I'm nervous. I'm more nervous than I was on Friday morning. I'm beginning to hear noises, I'm beginning to detect there may be some backsliding and I don't find that acceptable." Nigel Farage, earlier today
So speaketh Farage, who has backtracked more times than an England team has being knocked out of a major tournament.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 27, 2016, 09:57:27 PM
I love the guy, even though he's only got one ball... like Hitler.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 27, 2016, 10:06:46 PM
Branson: Chinese investors pulling out of UK over Brexit vote
Rob Davies
‘Good Morning TV'
Richard Branson ‘Good Morning Britain’ TV show, London, UK - 28 Jun 2016
Virgin tycoon Sir Richard Branson has warned that Chinese business partners are already pulling investment from the UK after the EU referendum.
Speaking to The Guardian, he warned that last week’s historic vote will cost “thousands of jobs”.
Branson told my colleague Rob Davies that:
“I met with a group of Chinese businessmen yesterday morning who have invested heavily in England and who are now going to stop investing and withdraw investments they’ve already made.”
“I’m afraid that based on misinformation, people voted for Brexit, which is basically voting for a way of shooting themselves in the foot. The last 2 days has been absolute pandemonium worldwide in the markets, the pound crashing, the stock markets crashing, and we are heading rapidly towards a recession again. It’s just too sad, so so sad.
Branson also laid into the Leave campaign for misleading voters during the referendum campaign, saying “thousands and thousands” of workers will pay the price.
“Businesspeople do not want politicians to completely and utterly wreck the hard work they’ve done for years and years and that is effectively what happened. Thousands and thousands of jobs will be lost as a result of this. Thousands of jobs that would have been created will be lost and the knock-on effect will be so dire. “The sad thing is I really think Brexiters were misled and did not realise.
People said it was scaremongering. It wasn’t scaremongering and the last 48 hours have proved that.”
As mentioned at 8.50am, Branson is pushing for a second referendum vote.
Branson’s Virgin Money challenger bank has been badly hit by the referendum result, with shares tumbling by 40% since Friday morning.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2016, 11:49:07 AM
Branson: Chinese investors pulling out of UK over Brexit vote
Rob Davies
‘Good Morning TV'
Richard Branson ‘Good Morning Britain’ TV show, London, UK - 28 Jun 2016
Virgin tycoon Sir Richard Branson has warned that Chinese business partners are already pulling investment from the UK after the EU referendum.
Speaking to The Guardian, he warned that last week’s historic vote will cost “thousands of jobs”.
Branson told my colleague Rob Davies that:
“I met with a group of Chinese businessmen yesterday morning who have invested heavily in England and who are now going to stop investing and withdraw investments they’ve already made.”
“I’m afraid that based on misinformation, people voted for Brexit, which is basically voting for a way of shooting themselves in the foot. The last 2 days has been absolute pandemonium worldwide in the markets, the pound crashing, the stock markets crashing, and we are heading rapidly towards a recession again. It’s just too sad, so so sad.
Branson also laid into the Leave campaign for misleading voters during the referendum campaign, saying “thousands and thousands” of workers will pay the price.
“Businesspeople do not want politicians to completely and utterly wreck the hard work they’ve done for years and years and that is effectively what happened. Thousands and thousands of jobs will be lost as a result of this. Thousands of jobs that would have been created will be lost and the knock-on effect will be so dire. “The sad thing is I really think Brexiters were misled and did not realise.
People said it was scaremongering. It wasn’t scaremongering and the last 48 hours have proved that.”
As mentioned at 8.50am, Branson is pushing for a second referendum vote.
Branson’s Virgin Money challenger bank has been badly hit by the referendum result, with shares tumbling by 40% since Friday morning.
Branson and his family are unnafected by by mass migration that has taken place...I think we need to see how this turns out...we cannot simply carry on allowing increasing uncontrolled migration affecting our public services
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 28, 2016, 12:03:01 PM
Branson: Chinese investors pulling out of UK over Brexit vote
Rob Davies
‘Good Morning TV'
Richard Branson ‘Good Morning Britain’ TV show, London, UK - 28 Jun 2016
Virgin tycoon Sir Richard Branson has warned that Chinese business partners are already pulling investment from the UK after the EU referendum.
Speaking to The Guardian, he warned that last week’s historic vote will cost “thousands of jobs”.
Branson told my colleague Rob Davies that:
“I met with a group of Chinese businessmen yesterday morning who have invested heavily in England and who are now going to stop investing and withdraw investments they’ve already made.”
“I’m afraid that based on misinformation, people voted for Brexit, which is basically voting for a way of shooting themselves in the foot. The last 2 days has been absolute pandemonium worldwide in the markets, the pound crashing, the stock markets crashing, and we are heading rapidly towards a recession again. It’s just too sad, so so sad.
Branson also laid into the Leave campaign for misleading voters during the referendum campaign, saying “thousands and thousands” of workers will pay the price.
“Businesspeople do not want politicians to completely and utterly wreck the hard work they’ve done for years and years and that is effectively what happened. Thousands and thousands of jobs will be lost as a result of this. Thousands of jobs that would have been created will be lost and the knock-on effect will be so dire. “The sad thing is I really think Brexiters were misled and did not realise.
People said it was scaremongering. It wasn’t scaremongering and the last 48 hours have proved that.”
As mentioned at 8.50am, Branson is pushing for a second referendum vote.
Branson’s Virgin Money challenger bank has been badly hit by the referendum result, with shares tumbling by 40% since Friday morning.
It was a long time coming but seeing all these tycoons squirming is so funny. Branson is a tax exile with corporate control of his many businesses being held in tax havens. Did he even have a vote?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 28, 2016, 12:14:56 PM
Branson: Chinese investors pulling out of UK over Brexit vote
Rob Davies
‘Good Morning TV'
Richard Branson ‘Good Morning Britain’ TV show, London, UK - 28 Jun 2016
Virgin tycoon Sir Richard Branson has warned that Chinese business partners are already pulling investment from the UK after the EU referendum.
Speaking to The Guardian, he warned that last week’s historic vote will cost “thousands of jobs”.
Branson told my colleague Rob Davies that:
“I met with a group of Chinese businessmen yesterday morning who have invested heavily in England and who are now going to stop investing and withdraw investments they’ve already made.”
“I’m afraid that based on misinformation, people voted for Brexit, which is basically voting for a way of shooting themselves in the foot. The last 2 days has been absolute pandemonium worldwide in the markets, the pound crashing, the stock markets crashing, and we are heading rapidly towards a recession again. It’s just too sad, so so sad.
Branson also laid into the Leave campaign for misleading voters during the referendum campaign, saying “thousands and thousands” of workers will pay the price.
“Businesspeople do not want politicians to completely and utterly wreck the hard work they’ve done for years and years and that is effectively what happened. Thousands and thousands of jobs will be lost as a result of this. Thousands of jobs that would have been created will be lost and the knock-on effect will be so dire. “The sad thing is I really think Brexiters were misled and did not realise.
People said it was scaremongering. It wasn’t scaremongering and the last 48 hours have proved that.”
As mentioned at 8.50am, Branson is pushing for a second referendum vote.
Branson’s Virgin Money challenger bank has been badly hit by the referendum result, with shares tumbling by 40% since Friday morning.
My ex-boss is quite right of course.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2016, 12:17:00 PM
Branson and his family are unnafected by by mass migration that has taken place...I think we need to see how this turns out...we cannot simply carry on allowing increasing uncontrolled migration affecting our public services
"Nevertheless, under the United Kingdom's immigration arrangements Commonwealth citizens enjoy certain advantages:
Commonwealth citizens born before 1 January 1983 may by virtue of having a parent born in the United Kingdom and Islands have the right of abode therein – such persons are exempt from all immigration control. Commonwealth citizens with a grandparent born in the United Kingdom and Islands may be admitted for up to five years on this basis, and thereafter be granted indefinite leave to remain. Commonwealth citizens between the ages of 18 and 30 were eligible to be admitted for a "working holiday" for up to two years. This has since been replaced with the more restrictive Youth Mobility Scheme[4] (now open only to youth of Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, and Monaco). Commonwealth citizens, unlike other non-European Economic Area nationals, may not be required to register with the police while living in the United Kingdom".
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Brietta on June 28, 2016, 12:30:16 PM
A picture of an NHS surgical team who come from around the European Union has been shared thousands of times online.
The photo, titled "We are Europe!", shows three scrub nurses from Spain, an Irish radiographer, a German consultant anaesthetist, a Greek urology specialist registrar and a British Pakistani consultant urologist.
Junaid Masood, who posted the picture while working at Homerton University Hospital in east London, said immigration is "the backbone" of the NHS.
The locum consultant urologist wrote: "Today we have been hard at work improving people's lives! This is what our friends from Europe do for the NHS." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-immigration-really-means-to-britain-a7106166.html
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2016, 12:31:12 PM
It was a long time coming but seeing all these tycoons squirming is so funny. Branson is a tax exile with corporate control of his many businesses being held in tax havens. Did he even have a vote?
Well, as he is a businessman who employs tens of thousands of employees in the UK, he knows what he is talking about.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2016, 12:32:09 PM
A picture of an NHS surgical team who come from around the European Union has been shared thousands of times online.
The photo, titled "We are Europe!", shows three scrub nurses from Spain, an Irish radiographer, a German consultant anaesthetist, a Greek urology specialist registrar and a British Pakistani consultant urologist.
Junaid Masood, who posted the picture while working at Homerton University Hospital in east London, said immigration is "the backbone" of the NHS.
The locum consultant urologist wrote: "Today we have been hard at work improving people's lives! This is what our friends from Europe do for the NHS." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-immigration-really-means-to-britain-a7106166.html
Thank you for that Brietta.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 28, 2016, 12:59:24 PM
Good job they're here, because they're needed to correct the work done by other European "professionals". 8((()*/
A picture of an NHS surgical team who come from around the European Union has been shared thousands of times online.
The photo, titled "We are Europe!", shows three scrub nurses from Spain, an Irish radiographer, a German consultant anaesthetist, a Greek urology specialist registrar and a British Pakistani consultant urologist.
Junaid Masood, who posted the picture while working at Homerton University Hospital in east London, said immigration is "the backbone" of the NHS.
The locum consultant urologist wrote: "Today we have been hard at work improving people's lives! This is what our friends from Europe do for the NHS." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-immigration-really-means-to-britain-a7106166.html
Shows what's wrong with the U.K. I hope they have checked the consultants qualifications
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 28, 2016, 01:04:26 PM
Branson and his family are unnafected by by mass migration that has taken place...I think we need to see how this turns out...we cannot simply carry on allowing increasing uncontrolled migration affecting our public services
Totally spot on davel. I think the message has been sent out loud and clear... WE'RE FULL UP
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2016, 01:08:59 PM
So how many burglars are of UK origin then Myster ?
How many UK burglars attack their victims ?
Would you object to being treated by non-EU Medical staff ?
I find this pandering to xenophobia........................... disgusting.
One British victim of any East European criminal is one too many for my liking. I know what it's like to spend the early hours in A&E waiting to be treated for a head wound caused by intruders. Admittedly they were never caught and were probably British, but that made me extremely angry. I would have been even angrier if I'd learned they came illegally from crime-ridden areas of Europe.
And don't you dare accuse me of xenophobia! In my university days I had several personal friends from Europe and Hong Kong.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2016, 01:32:14 PM
One British victim of any East European criminal is one too many for my liking. I know what it's like to spend the early hours in A&E waiting to be treated for a head wound caused by intruders. Admittedly they were never caught and were probably British, but that made me extremely angry. I would have been even angrier if I'd learned they came illegally from crime-ridden areas of Europe.
And don't you dare accuse me of xenophobia! In my university days I had several personal friends from Europe and Hong Kong.
Any victim of burglary is to be sympathized with.
You deliberately referred to Polish burglars.
You chose to refer to them for blatantly obvious reasons.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 28, 2016, 01:35:13 PM
Branson and his family are unnafected by by mass migration that has taken place...I think we need to see how this turns out...we cannot simply carry on allowing increasing uncontrolled migration affecting our public services
At present net migration is 350,000. Population 65,000,000. So the suggestion is that Great British public services are so crap they cannot take up 0.5% slack ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 28, 2016, 01:37:19 PM
Now we have voted for independence Farage and his party are redundant.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 28, 2016, 01:40:35 PM
Rumour has it Jean-Claude Juncker is rewriting the lyrics to a Muddy Waters song:
"You got your Bojo working, but it just won't work on us".
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 28, 2016, 01:44:49 PM
You chose to refer to them for blatantly obvious reasons.
I did not refer to Polish burglars, but merely linked to a particular case involving them. I mentioned East Europeans, but Poles do make up the largest contingent in British jails.
Romanian gangs have found rich pickings in Scotland too... https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/734946/upsurge-in-break-ins-across-north/ (https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/734946/upsurge-in-break-ins-across-north/)
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 28, 2016, 01:48:09 PM
I did not refer to Polish burglars, but merely linked to a particular case involving them. I mentioned East Europeans, but Poles do make up the largest contingent in British jails.
Romanian gangs have found rich pickings in Scotland too... https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/734946/upsurge-in-break-ins-across-north/ (https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/734946/upsurge-in-break-ins-across-north/)
Stephen supports everything EU but hasn't been able to explain why.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 28, 2016, 01:49:23 PM
A picture of an NHS surgical team who come from around the European Union has been shared thousands of times online.
The photo, titled "We are Europe!", shows three scrub nurses from Spain, an Irish radiographer, a German consultant anaesthetist, a Greek urology specialist registrar and a British Pakistani consultant urologist.
Junaid Masood, who posted the picture while working at Homerton University Hospital in east London, said immigration is "the backbone" of the NHS.
The locum consultant urologist wrote: "Today we have been hard at work improving people's lives! This is what our friends from Europe do for the NHS." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-immigration-really-means-to-britain-a7106166.html
And in the day, British Rail and London Transport. It is appalling people don't know the social history of their own country.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 28, 2016, 01:51:14 PM
You've just proved you are living in Cloud Cuckooland with that idiotic remark.
We shall see. The next UK gov will have to put into effect an immigration policy which will control undesirables entering our country. Obviously you couldn't care less who comes here...
Sour grapes is so undignified!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 28, 2016, 01:53:36 PM
A picture of an NHS surgical team who come from around the European Union has been shared thousands of times online.
The photo, titled "We are Europe!", shows three scrub nurses from Spain, an Irish radiographer, a German consultant anaesthetist, a Greek urology specialist registrar and a British Pakistani consultant urologist.
Junaid Masood, who posted the picture while working at Homerton University Hospital in east London, said immigration is "the backbone" of the NHS.
The locum consultant urologist wrote: "Today we have been hard at work improving people's lives! This is what our friends from Europe do for the NHS." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-immigration-really-means-to-britain-a7106166.html
Why was I not surprised it was in East London or surprised that these foreigners all voted remain. A failed EU means that these people cannot work in their own homeland.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 28, 2016, 01:56:21 PM
We shall see. The next UK gov will have to put into effect an immigration policy which will control undesirables entering our country. Obviously you couldn't care less who comes here...
Sour grapes is so undignified!
The UK already had the power to control 'undesirables' entering our country. The fact that we may not have been very good at it is hardly the fault of the EU. But you're not just talking about 'undesirables' are you?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2016, 01:56:41 PM
A picture of an NHS surgical team who come from around the European Union has been shared thousands of times online.
The photo, titled "We are Europe!", shows three scrub nurses from Spain, an Irish radiographer, a German consultant anaesthetist, a Greek urology specialist registrar and a British Pakistani consultant urologist.
Junaid Masood, who posted the picture while working at Homerton University Hospital in east London, said immigration is "the backbone" of the NHS.
The locum consultant urologist wrote: "Today we have been hard at work improving people's lives! This is what our friends from Europe do for the NHS." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-immigration-really-means-to-britain-a7106166.html
Nice picture, but a bit simplistic to say that this is 'What immigration really means to Britain' surely?
Not all immigrants fill worthwhile jobs. Not all immigrants have jobs. Some are in our prisons. Immigrants, like everyone else, come in all shapes, sizes and types.
In respect of the NHS several questions arise;
Why are we short of doctors and nurses?
Answer; because the UK has been cutting training places so our own people can't get into the jobs; The Royal College of Nursing said;
there are 54,000 homegrown applicants a year seeking training places. However, in 2010-2011 there were only 20,092 nurse training commissions in the UK. In each of the next four years under the coalition there were fewer places, a reduction of 8,000 British nurses coming into the system.
Andy Burnham, the shadow health secretary, said: “Because there are not enough nurses coming out of training, hospitals are having to tour Europe looking for recruits. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/04/nhs-recruits-one-in-four-nurses-from-abroad
I think the same is true for doctors. Instead of investing in training we are just recruiting overseas.
Guardian investigation finds that aggressive recruitment sees doctors from at least 27 countries hired in 32 of the 160 hospital trusts in England......Dr David Rosser, medical director of University hospitals Birmingham, one of England’s biggest trusts, said: “The NHS doesn’t have the number of doctors it needs. The shortage is real. We aren’t training enough doctors in this country, and so we are dependent on foreign-trained doctors. Doctors in more and more branches of medicine report shortages, especially in specialities such as A&E, where it’s tough work.” https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jan/28/-sp-nhs-hires-3000-foreign-doctors-staff-shortage
So needing immigrants to work in the NHS is due to lack of investment in training our own doctors and nurses. Are these doctors as well trained as our home trained ones? Possibly not; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/10772690/The-NHS-must-raise-the-bar-for-foreign-doctors.html
A pretty picture, as I said, but the underlying reasons for our international NHS staff should also be communicated and considered. Haven't we had enough propoganda?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 28, 2016, 02:24:19 PM
So why aren'the you referring in your comments to burglars from the UK ?
It's obvious, stephen, that criminals from any part of the European mainland are an additional burden this country doesn't need and is better off without.
Have to go now, need to get some work done.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 28, 2016, 02:35:02 PM
Nice picture, but a bit simplistic to say that this is 'What immigration really means to Britain' surely?
Not all immigrants fill worthwhile jobs. Not all immigrants have jobs. Some are in our prisons. Immigrants, like everyone else, come in all shapes, sizes and types.
In respect of the NHS several questions arise;
Why are we short of doctors and nurses?
Answer; because the UK has been cutting training places so our own people can't get into the jobs; The Royal College of Nursing said;
there are 54,000 homegrown applicants a year seeking training places. However, in 2010-2011 there were only 20,092 nurse training commissions in the UK. In each of the next four years under the coalition there were fewer places, a reduction of 8,000 British nurses coming into the system.
Andy Burnham, the shadow health secretary, said: “Because there are not enough nurses coming out of training, hospitals are having to tour Europe looking for recruits. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/04/nhs-recruits-one-in-four-nurses-from-abroad
I think the same is true for doctors. Instead of investing in training we are just recruiting overseas.
Guardian investigation finds that aggressive recruitment sees doctors from at least 27 countries hired in 32 of the 160 hospital trusts in England......Dr David Rosser, medical director of University hospitals Birmingham, one of England’s biggest trusts, said: “The NHS doesn’t have the number of doctors it needs. The shortage is real. We aren’t training enough doctors in this country, and so we are dependent on foreign-trained doctors. Doctors in more and more branches of medicine report shortages, especially in specialities such as A&E, where it’s tough work.” https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jan/28/-sp-nhs-hires-3000-foreign-doctors-staff-shortage
So needing immigrants to work in the NHS is due to lack of investment in training our own doctors and nurses. Are these doctors as well trained as our home trained ones? Possibly not; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/10772690/The-NHS-must-raise-the-bar-for-foreign-doctors.html
A pretty picture, as I said, but the underlying reasons for our international NHS staff should also be communicated and considered. Haven't we had enough propoganda?
Or consider the basic problem, "sides" excluded the problem is: A single state owned organisation which is the fifth largest employer in the world needing 650,000 clinically qualified staff providing health care for a population of 67 million. Two questions arising: Q1 can they be sourced in UK as a "raw material"? Q2 does UK have the facilities to "process" the "raw material"?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 28, 2016, 03:25:04 PM
It's obvious, stephen, that criminals from any part of the European mainland are an additional burden this country doesn't need and is better off without.
Have to go now, need to get some work done.
We can't have all these Johnny Foreigner Burgulah types putting the English Burgulahs out of work by fencing the swag at cut rates can we... @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2016, 03:29:52 PM
I haven't seen any points from you in favour of remaining within the EU.
Try reading.
Now if it helps, even though you will have been told this or already know it.
We have benefitted from foreign investors/companies coming to the UK, because of our access to the single market and with beneficial tax arrangements and grants for doing so.
Why jeopardise that.
Note Branson's comments earlier.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2016, 03:31:43 PM
It's obvious, stephen, that criminals from any part of the European mainland are an additional burden this country doesn't need and is better off without.
Have to go now, need to get some work done.
Am I disagreeing with you as regards criminals ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 28, 2016, 04:46:51 PM
Quote
A picture of an NHS surgical team who come from around the European Union has been shared thousands of times online.
The photo, titled "We are Europe!", shows three scrub nurses from Spain, an Irish radiographer, a German consultant anaesthetist, a Greek urology specialist registrar and a British Pakistani consultant urologist.
Junaid Masood, who posted the picture while working at Homerton University Hospital in east London, said immigration is "the backbone" of the NHS.
The locum consultant urologist wrote: "Today we have been hard at work improving people's lives! This is what our friends from Europe do for the NHS."
"The booming UK economy proved an attractive destination for many A8 citizens. Together with restrictions elsewhere in Europe, high unemployment at home, favorable exchange rates, and pent-up demand, a wave of immigration was unleashed".
"The report estimated the size of the illegally resident population at 430,000, based on census data from 2001. That number is about 9 percent of the 4.9 million foreign born in 2001 and less than 1 percent of the total UK population".
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2016, 06:08:31 PM
We have Brexit ?
Nothing has been agreed yet and until it is assumptions of control of immigration will continue to be hyperbole.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 28, 2016, 06:09:20 PM
You still haven't said what glorious benefit you believe to being a member of the EU? Are you another proponent of unfettered migration? What about the £160 million we literally give away every week and get nought back, are you in favour of this too?
And talking about the NHS, if we didn't have so many migrants in London in the first place there would be few waiting lists for hospital places and an appointment with a GP might take a day instead of four or five.
It is the number of migrants in London which has caused the problem, throwing more migrants at it won't make it better.
Sadiq Khan revealed a few years back that there were some 300,000 illegals living and working in London. I think its double that figure but never mind. The first thing we should do is round up these illegals and ship them out. Many are criminals, most have been refused entry, these are the sort of undesirables our country can well do without. Hopefully a new pro #Brexit Tory government will get to grip with this problem sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2016, 06:25:39 PM
Likewise, I take the opinion of Ŕichard Branson of far more importance than you Angelo.
There is no way Johnson or whoever is elected can afford, pun intended, to lose foreign investment in the UK if we remain outside the European market.
I've noticed recently that you like everyone else to give an opinion so you can criticise it. Again, my question is, why are you so pro EU?
I will predict now that Boris will be the next PM 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2016, 07:00:26 PM
We have seen what buffoons our own politicians are Does anyone think those running the EU are in any way superior Those we are committing the future of our country to if we stay
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 28, 2016, 07:06:32 PM
Corbyn is a fool and is begging to appear so in front of the worlds media. His position is untenable so clinging on will only damage both him and the Labour Party.
As for the Tories, Cameron is merely damaging the UK by hanging on until October. He should go now and hand over to someone who cares.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 28, 2016, 07:07:01 PM
We have seen what buffoons our own politicians are Does anyone think those running the EU are in any way superior Those we are committing the future of our country to if we stay
Whatever politicians may think they are by way of being in control for the most part all they do is present the inevitable in the best way to suit their politics. Listen to the first thing all of them say when something goes t**s up.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 28, 2016, 07:27:28 PM
We have seen what buffoons our own politicians are Does anyone think those running the EU are in any way superior Those we are committing the future of our country to if we stay
Why not? Their football players are better than ours, why not their MPs? @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 28, 2016, 07:32:03 PM
I didn't vote leave, but I am defending the result because voters voted and decided. That's democracy, which we are all supposed to believe in.
Our politicians are elected and paid to make the result work and they need to get on and do their jobs. Both sides should accept the result and concentrate on making the future as good as it can be for the voters.
Can I ask why you didn't vote leave?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 28, 2016, 08:42:59 PM
Brexit is not legally binding, and any politician worth their salt as a politician and a human being, will ignore it if it becomes clear that the damage caused by a brexit (on quite a few levels) is not really worth it in the end, egg on face or not. The rest of the EU seem to be happy to give grace time for rethinks.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 28, 2016, 09:07:31 PM
Brexit is not legally binding, and any politician worth their salt as a politician and a human being, will ignore it if it becomes clear that the damage caused by a brexit (on quite a few levels) is not really worth it in the end, egg on face or not. The rest of the EU seem to be happy to give grace time for rethinks.
Good points.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 28, 2016, 09:29:40 PM
We may be better off financially on the EU but are the social problems it brings worth it That is the question Free movement of labour is one thing but free movement of those who have little intention of working and who are a burden on our health and social services is another Let's train our own doctors and nurses rather than importing some who are poorly trained and whose English is poor
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 28, 2016, 09:31:01 PM
Why is immigration the backbone of the NHS? Why are hospitals in other regions of the UK not filled with foreigners?
If they speak good English whats the problem? In 2014 26% of doctors were not British (thats not including GPs) Just think of all that money the UK saved trainng its own Just pilfer them for nothing, easier
As for immgrants being the backbone, the numbers vary throughout the country but in London certainly if you deported them all the NHS would be a wandering ghosts paradise
Its never going to happen.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 28, 2016, 11:17:34 PM
It should be sent to a referendum now whether the uk has a right to sell pizzas, olive oil, chcken pakoras, fajitas etc
The arguments about illegal immigrants and criminals and refugees are cowered by racism unleashed
I understand some of the gripes in various cities, alot of them are very valid, but a full scale attack on foreigners is low and defunct at inceptioni
BREXIT is a BIG mistake
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 28, 2016, 11:30:35 PM
I think the debate isn't addressing the real issues; sovereignty and democracy. We can vote in new governments during general elections but will they then run the country? Between 50% and 80% of our laws come from the EU, our Parliament just rubber-stamps them basically.
Whether you think we benefit from EU membership or not the price is handing over control to institutions we don't vote in and can't vote out.
It seems there is a very real desire in certain quarters for a United States of Europe, which would eventually reduce member nations to states.
We may have been 'built on immigration' but we nave always maintained our sovereignty and although our democracy isn't perfect we have chosen our parliamentary representatives ourselves using a widening voter base.
Have we been travelling along a route where a European Dictatorship was going to be in charge eventually?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 28, 2016, 11:36:16 PM
Gu
50-80 per cent of our laws?? What if theyre all good laws that the uk independently might have brought in
Which ones are the bug bears we cant NOT fight against?
Were any of these laws ones the ukk govt were lapse in the first place not bringing in?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 28, 2016, 11:50:52 PM
50-80 per cent of our laws?? What if theyre all good laws that the uk independently might have brought in
Which ones are the bug bears we cant NOT fight against?
Were any of these laws ones the ukk govt were lapse in the first place not bringing in?
You're still missing the point. It's not whether the laws are good, bad or indifferent, it's about who should make British laws. If our Parliament creates a bad law, like the Poll Tax, people can campaign and change it.
If a similar unworkable law was imposed by the EU in the future it would need more than UK people campaigning to change it.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 28, 2016, 11:56:52 PM
Unless the city population stats are wrong, I make it one new city each and every year, where that city is about the same size as Belfast, Newcastle or Sunderland.
That is not what is required for population growth. It is what is needed purely for net immigration.
Services have to be designed for the fixed population and some transients. That is the base. Above that base is the 330,000 net migration which is a 0.5% increase on the base. If a 0.5% increase cannot be accommodated then there is a problem with the defined base. It isn't really that difficult to understand.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 29, 2016, 12:03:32 AM
You're still missing the point. It's not whether the laws are good, bad or indifferent, it's about who should make British laws. If our Parliament creates a bad law, like the Poll Tax, people can campaign and change it.
If a similar unworkable law was imposed by the EU in the future it would need more than UK people campaigning to change it.
The EU issue directives they do make laws. Member states all draft their own laws to embody the principle of the directive. It is amazing the difference in those laws. We always go for "polished naval brass and mahogany" when "plastic and chrome plate" are adequate. Then we blame it on the EU.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 12:06:17 AM
I think the debate isn't addressing the real issues; sovereignty and democracy. We can vote in new governments during general elections but will they then run the country? Between 50% and 80% of our laws come from the EU, our Parliament just rubber-stamps them basically.
Whether you think we benefit from EU membership or not the price is handing over control to institutions we don't vote in and can't vote out.
It seems there is a very real desire in certain quarters for a United States of Europe, which would eventually reduce member nations to states.
We may have been 'built on immigration' but we nave always maintained our sovereignty and although our democracy isn't perfect we have chosen our parliamentary representatives ourselves using a widening voter base.
Have we been travelling along a route where a European Dictatorship was going to be in charge eventually?
So why did you not vote to leave?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 29, 2016, 12:09:47 AM
I remember some years ago meeting a man who had arrived in the Uk about 2 years previously Both his daughters had passed the 11 plus and won places at a very good grammar school Wonderful Was that fair to the girls whose parents had lived in the Uk for years whose places they took
Yes, totally, so long as they got there thru their own intellect without any pushing or other means.
Grammar schools are intended for the most intelligent children.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 29, 2016, 12:10:52 AM
You're still missing the point. It's not whether the laws are good, bad or indifferent, it's about who should make British laws. If our Parliament creates a bad law, like the Poll Tax, people can campaign and change it.
If a similar unworkable law was imposed by the EU in the future it would need more than UK people campaigning to change it.
Ah ok I see your point But is a potential catastrophe worth it? Rather than other means of this pathetic govt usng to change thngs
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 29, 2016, 12:35:14 AM
Services have to be designed for the fixed population and some transients. That is the base. Above that base is the 330,000 net migration which is a 0.5% increase on the base. If a 0.5% increase cannot be accommodated then there is a problem with the defined base. It isn't really that difficult to understand.
They are not transients. If they were all transient, the net immigration would be zero.
These are people who need houses, jobs, schools, medical facilities, waste disposal, space on the roads, ad infinitum.
All the UK needs for the net immigration flow is one major city each and every year. Even if that city can be built every year, where does the land come from?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2016, 12:38:11 AM
The EU issue directives they do make laws. Member states all draft their own laws to embody the principle of the directive. It is amazing the difference in those laws. We always go for "polished naval brass and mahogany" when "plastic and chrome plate" are adequate. Then we blame it on the EU.
There are different things which come from the EU which affect us. Directives are one;
Article 288 To exercise the Union's competences, the institutions shall adopt regulations, directives, decisions, recommendations and opinions. A regulation shall have general application. It shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States. A directive shall be binding, as to the result to be achieved, upon each Member State to which it is addressed, but shall leave to the national authorities the choice of form and methods. A decision shall be binding in its entirety upon those to whom it is addressed. Recommendations and opinions shall have no binding force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_(European_Union)
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 29, 2016, 01:14:00 AM
Well goodnight fellow psters Camerons absolved hmself of responsiblity and run away and chucked it on the new PM
chicken coward Cameron
Shame on him forever more for unleashing a shitstorm
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 29, 2016, 02:45:06 AM
Well goodnight fellow psters Camerons absolved hmself of responsiblity and run away and chucked it on the new PM
chicken coward Cameron
Shame on him forever more for unleashing a shitstorm
Just what I have been saying all along mercury. Cameron said he would see it through regardless of the outcome and it was on that basis that many of us voted to leave the EU. What happens? The minute he realises the majority of the voting British public have voted to leave the EU he chucks the dummy out of the pram and won't play any more. Jesus Christ did I badly underestimate the man.
Cameron should go now and let someone with political skill take over temporarily until a new leader can be installed. As it stands, Cameron is weak, he looks weak and that is not good for any negotiations on exit. Its a bit like asking the turkeys to negotiate with the butcher.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on June 29, 2016, 07:09:10 AM
So disappointed we won't get to sing the EU anthem any more 8(8-)) ...
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2016, 07:18:31 AM
It seems the Superstate idea is still around. Is that really what the remain voters want?
EUROPEAN political chiefs are to take advantage of Brexit by unveiling their long-held plan to morph the continent’s countries into one GIANT SUPERSTATE, it has emerged yesterday.
The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.
Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels. http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 29, 2016, 07:56:35 AM
expecting doctors to speak english is not racist...it is a safety issue
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 29, 2016, 09:02:40 AM
Davel wrote: "expecting doctors to speak english is not racist...it is a safety issue"
________
Reply: Are you suggesting its a free for all? That anyone can practice medicine in the UK irrespective of whether they speak sufficient English.
No doctor can practice in the UK with a licence and registration.
You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about "furriners".
During diagnosis doctors use a range of methods, including asking the patient questions. Ten days ago I accompanied my husband to A & E. We saw two doctors, one with excellent English and the other, senior doctor with less good English. Neither of us could understand the questions she was asking us. Whether she understood our answers I don't know. The diagnosis and treatment were first class (he has heart failure, so quite serious) but it does add to patient and relative stress levels if communication is difficult.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 29, 2016, 09:34:42 AM
You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about "furriners".
I am stating it as a fact. At the moment we are not allowed to question the language skills of doctors or dentists from the EU...some of them have very poor language skills and are a danger. Your accusations of racism are based on ignorance
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 09:38:56 AM
It seems the Superstate idea is still around. Is that really what the remain voters want?
EUROPEAN political chiefs are to take advantage of Brexit by unveiling their long-held plan to morph the continent’s countries into one GIANT SUPERSTATE, it has emerged yesterday.
The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.
Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels. http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit
As you seem to be very critical of the EU and everything it stands for, can I ask again why you did not vote leave?
Incidentally the article you have quoted comes from the Daily Express - are we now to accept everything they tell us is the truth?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 29, 2016, 09:39:19 AM
You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about "furriners".
Perhaps some people would like to furnish us with some statistics on those 'foreign' doctors, dentists, nurses, etc., who have found to be incompetent in their duties, and at the same time provide data for the UK counterparts.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 29, 2016, 10:00:42 AM
They are not transients. If they were all transient, the net immigration would be zero.
These are people who need houses, jobs, schools, medical facilities, waste disposal, space on the roads, ad infinitum.
All the UK needs for the net immigration flow is one major city each and every year. Even if that city can be built every year, where does the land come from?
I don't think you read my post properly or if you did you failed to understand it. As for the basics of infrastructure design you are trying to teach granny to suck eggs.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2016, 10:15:03 AM
Concentrating on trade and the free movement of people makes good headlines but the EU is about much more than that. Rather than being diverted and arguing about the little issues people should be aware of the whole picture. If you don't like the information I'm posting feel free to find and post alternative information. It would be interesting to have a debate which addressed the big questions like sovereignty and democracy.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 10:19:42 AM
Concentrating on trade and the free movement of people makes good headlines but the EU is about much more than that. Rather than being diverted and arguing about the little issues people should be aware of the whole picture. If you don't like the information I'm posting feel free to find and post alternative information. It would be interesting to have a debate which addressed the big questions like sovereignty and democracy.
I have no opinion on whether the Express is peddling lies or telling the truth, I just find it somewhat amusing that you have chosen a tabloid as your source, when to do so is usually mocked and sneered at in another part of the forum. I also find it puzzling that you wish to debate this matter whilst at the same time refusing to explain your reasons for not voting leave. Your choice of course.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 10:23:34 AM
Perhaps some people would like to furnish us with some statistics on those 'foreign' doctors, dentists, nurses, etc., who have found to be incompetent in their duties, and at the same time provide data for the UK counterparts.
Perhaps instead of everyone answering your questions which you summarily dismiss you would answer theirs. Remind me, why do you support a EU?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 10:29:34 AM
It seems the Superstate idea is still around. Is that really what the remain voters want?
EUROPEAN political chiefs are to take advantage of Brexit by unveiling their long-held plan to morph the continent’s countries into one GIANT SUPERSTATE, it has emerged yesterday.
The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.
Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels. http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit
The Superstate concept is what the EU is all about with Germany having most influence at the top table. Anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously deluding themself.
On another note, isn't it wonderful how countries are now falling over each other to be the first to trade with the soon to be new free UK.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 10:31:35 AM
Having clicked on the Express link kindly furnished by G-Unit, my eye was rather taken by the story immediately below it - that Elvis is still alive.
Sums it up perfectly I feel... @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 29, 2016, 10:33:29 AM
Perhaps instead of everyone answering your questions which you summarily dismiss you would answer theirs. Remind me, why do you support a EU?
I already have given reasons. I gave one reason yesterday.
I have also noted that some on here question cites which reflect mine and others point of view, yet we are asked with blind faith to support the sites given by brexiters. 8)--))
I also find it interesting to note that I am being asked this question by you repeatedly, yet you fail to ask others who back staying in Europe the same question.
Why is that ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 29, 2016, 10:34:43 AM
The Superstate concept is what the EU is all about with Germany having most influence at the top table. Anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously deluding themself.
On another note, isn't it wonderful how countries are now falling over each other to be the first to trade with the soon to be new free UK.
yes i agree,also i think the superstate is the brainchild of the usa they control the strings and like all good puppet masters they are never seen pulling the strings ?>)()<
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 10:46:51 AM
I already have given reasons. I gave one reason yesterday.
I have also noted that some on here question cites which reflect mine and others point of view, yet we are asked with blind faith to support the sites given by brexiters. 8)--))
I also find it interesting to note that I am being asked this question by you repeatedly, yet you fail to ask others who back staying in Europe the same question.
Why is that ?
What reason was that? The NHS??
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 10:51:09 AM
yes i agree,also i think the superstate is the brainchild of the usa they control the strings and like all good puppet masters they are never seen pulling the strings ?>)()<
Have you noticed turnaround Obama? A week ago he was running down the notion of brexit and now he wants to be best friends again.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 29, 2016, 10:52:16 AM
yes i agree,also i think the superstate is the brainchild of the usa they control the strings and like all good puppet masters they are never seen pulling the strings ?>)()<
The US economy (& western economy) is fu**ed & Obama knows it, the petrodollar is dying.
The over throw of the Ukraine Gov 2014 was orchestrated by the US funding a far right group. (Be he's so anti-racist isn't he!)
Ukraine was going to pump cheap Russian oil into Europe, the US couldn't afford to let that happen.
Europe is Americas 51st state.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 11:03:08 AM
yes i agree,also i think the superstate is the brainchild of the usa they control the strings and like all good puppet masters they are never seen pulling the strings ?>)()<
We know Obama came on a three day visit and issued a few threats. Do we know when it was arranged?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 11:07:10 AM
The US economy (& western economy) is fu**ed & Obama knows it, the petrodollar is dying.
The over throw of the Ukraine Gov 2014 was orchestrated by the US funding a far right group. (Be he's so anti-racist isn't he!)
Ukraine was going to pump cheap Russian oil into Europe, the US couldn't afford to let that happen.
Europe is Americas 51st state.
That is exactly what happened with Saddam Hussein. He was going to sell Iraq's oil to the world but not in dollars but in Euros thus sinking the US economy.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 11:10:36 AM
All pie in the sky of a promised land, which could never be delivered.
It will be delivered, we will take back control of our own country, we will open up new trade links with the rest of the world, we will save £ billions which would otherwise have been wasted in eastern Europe, we will control immigration to the UK and kick out desirables. The UK is heading for a bright future under Independence, feel free to take part.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 29, 2016, 11:12:22 AM
That is exactly what happened with Saddam Hussein. He was going to sell Iraq's oil to the world but not in dollars but in Euros thus sinking the US economy.
....and Gadaffi.
Not covered in the news much but,
In recent weeks western forces have been carrying out the biggest military exercise (since 1940 odd) on the border of Russia.
Nato are surrounding Russia because of the economic threat to the west.
Russian, Chinese ambitions to float a Gold backed currency & abandon the petrodollar is the single biggest threat to western civilization.
WW3 is coming.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 11:20:58 AM
As a small business owner at least I have the consolation that certain workers rights are likely to be repealed and I won't have to pay my part-time staff any holiday or sick pay, so that's good news isn't it?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 29, 2016, 11:25:24 AM
It will be delivered, we will take back control of our own country, we will open up new trade links with the rest of the world, we will save £ billions which would otherwise have been wasted in eastern Europe, we will control immigration to the UK and kick out desirables. The UK is heading for a bright future under Independence, feel free to take part.
Who do you imagine is going to deliver us unto this Utopia? Boris and the Tories? Or are you hoping that UKIP win a landlslide at the next GE?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 29, 2016, 11:26:41 AM
It will be delivered, we will take back control of our own country, we will open up new trade links with the rest of the world, we will save £ billions which would otherwise have been wasted in eastern Europe, we will control immigration to the UK and kick out desirables. The UK is heading for a bright future under Independence, feel free to take part.
Cliche, after cliche, after cliche.
Now let's see some proof. 8**8:/:
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 11:28:52 AM
YEs, and the US Government were behind the shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines over the Ukraine, not to mention the terrorist attacks on the Twin Towers. Oh and they lied about the moon landings too. And Obama was born in Kenya and is a Muslim.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2016, 11:29:50 AM
I have no opinion on whether the Express is peddling lies or telling the truth, I just find it somewhat amusing that you have chosen a tabloid as your source, when to do so is usually mocked and sneered at in another part of the forum. I also find it puzzling that you wish to debate this matter whilst at the same time refusing to explain your reasons for not voting leave. Your choice of course.
As usual the you appear to prefer questioning my cites and my opinions rather than discussing the issues. Do you think becoming a state in a United States of Europe is attractive or not? Did you take the possibility into account when deciding where you stood?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 29, 2016, 11:33:01 AM
how many times have they pushed us to back their war's for greed.Russia is no threat to us .we want to trade with nations and not have this cold war rhetoric continue.war makes us poorer costs money we need that money to go into the infrastructure of our great country
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 11:34:47 AM
As usual the you appear to prefer questioning my cites and my opinions rather than discussing the issues. Do you think becoming a state in a United States of Europe is attractive or not? Did you take the possibility into account when deciding where you stood?
If you put forward cites and voice opinion for consideration expect them to be questioned. Isn't that what chat forums are all about? Perhaps not in your view although I note you then go on to ask me my opinion which begs the question - if I voice it, will you respect it and leave it at that, or will you challenge it?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 11:35:53 AM
During diagnosis doctors use a range of methods, including asking the patient questions. Ten days ago I accompanied my husband to A & E. We saw two doctors, one with excellent English and the other, senior doctor with less good English. Neither of us could understand the questions she was asking us. Whether she understood our answers I don't know. The diagnosis and treatment were first class (he has heart failure, so quite serious) but it does add to patient and relative stress levels if communication is difficult.
Sorry to hear about your husband's health issues. You must be going through a stressful and worrying time. That is said with sincerity btw. With regard the doctors who saw to your husband, what was their likely country(ies) of origin?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2016, 12:04:38 PM
As a small business owner at least I have the consolation that certain workers rights are likely to be repealed and I won't have to pay my part-time staff any holiday or sick pay, so that's good news isn't it?
It depends how much commitment you want or need from your staff, I expect. Pay peanuts get monkeys.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2016, 12:15:37 PM
Sorry to hear about your husband's health issues. You must be going through a stressful and worrying time. That is said with sincerity btw. With regard the doctors who saw to your husband, what was their likely country(ies) of origin?
Thank you Alfie. We are fairly realistic at our age and although it's not desirable it is possible to manage it hopefully. We're waiting for a cardiac appointment atm. I think one doctor was probably born here, my guess with the other one would be Nigerian.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 12:17:29 PM
It depends how much commitment you want or need from your staff, I expect. Pay peanuts get monkeys.
When jobs are thin on the ground and people will accept any wage and any conditions so long as they have some work then they are liable to be exploited don't you agree? So, if you remove laws designed to protect workers from being exploited don't you think it possible or even likely that workers may run the risk of lower wages and poorer working conditions?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 12:21:16 PM
Thank you Alfie. We are fairly realistic at our age and although it's not desirable it is possible to manage it hopefully. We're waiting for a cardiac appointment atm. I think one doctor was probably born here, my guess with the other one would be Nigerian.
Right. so pulling out of the EU has no bearing whatsoever on doctors coming from Nigeria. In fact, if we are to accept the Leave argument that because of EU nationals coming here it restricts our ability to bring on board experts from other countries outside of the EU expect to see more Nigerian doctors in the come years not fewer. This issue of language barriers in the NHS is nothing to do with the EU.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2016, 12:30:13 PM
If you put forward cites and voice opinion for consideration expect them to be questioned. Isn't that what chat forums are all about? Perhaps not in your view although I note you then go on to ask me my opinion which begs the question - if I voice it, will you respect it and leave it at that, or will you challenge it?
I gave information and true debaters would check it then find and give alternative information in my opinion. I don't know if this is a rather lightweight 'chat forum' or a serious debating forum, although I'm beginning to suspect the former. Why do you expect your opinion to be respected and not challenged? If you have information saying the EU is not planning a United States of Europe let's see it.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 12:37:25 PM
I gave information and true debaters would check it then find and give alternative information in my opinion. I don't know if this is a rather lightweight 'chat forum' or a serious debating forum, although I'm beginning to suspect the former. Why do you expect your opinion to be respected and not challenged? If you have information saying the EU is not planning a United States of Europe let's see it.
You want me to prove a negative? You know that's not possible don't you? However, if you have official statements from senior members of the EU stating that getting rid of nation states and all that entails, and subsuming them into The United States Of Europe is their ultimate aim then I will accept that you are right. At the moment it sounds like a bit of scaremongering going on....that couldn't possibly be so could it...? &%+((£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 12:40:40 PM
So, we're looking for proof of the following statement:
EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 12:53:38 PM
YEs, and the US Government were behind the shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines over the Ukraine, not to mention the terrorist attacks on the Twin Towers. Oh and they lied about the moon landings too. And Obama was born in Kenya and is a Muslim.
Steady on old boy. Didn't you know the Chinese have had a base on the moon for years?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 01:01:13 PM
If you put forward cites and voice opinion for consideration expect them to be questioned. Isn't that what chat forums are all about? Perhaps not in your view although I note you then go on to ask me my opinion which begs the question - if I voice it, will you respect it and leave it at that, or will you challenge it?
It's a two way street Alfie. Why did you want to stay in the EU?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 01:03:00 PM
There are different things which come from the EU which affect us. Directives are one;
Article 288 To exercise the Union's competences, the institutions shall adopt regulations, directives, decisions, recommendations and opinions. A regulation shall have general application. It shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States. A directive shall be binding, as to the result to be achieved, upon each Member State to which it is addressed, but shall leave to the national authorities the choice of form and methods. A decision shall be binding in its entirety upon those to whom it is addressed. Recommendations and opinions shall have no binding force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_(European_Union)
I accept what is said re directives regulations, recommendations etc. That is the price of belonging to the club. What isn't the price of belonging to the club is the UK overbearing attitude that Johnny Foreigner cannot frame laws as long he has a hole up his backside and UK can do it better. Then UK frame laws for the implementation of EU Directives that disadvantage the UK with respect to other member states. What has to be worked out is how much of the "damage" is self inflicted rather than imposed.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 29, 2016, 01:31:45 PM
I gave information and true debaters would check it then find and give alternative information in my opinion. I don't know if this is a rather lightweight 'chat forum' or a serious debating forum, although I'm beginning to suspect the former. Why do you expect your opinion to be respected and not challenged? If you have information saying the EU is not planning a United States of Europe let's see it.
One article from the daily express does not an EU policy make.
There is nothing to corroborate this particular story that was based on a rumour. If you read the article it looks as though the central tenet is denied by everyone else.
How should a serious debating forum respond to one article in a hysterical newspaper which is still banging on about princess diana being murdered by the royal family? Apart from wait and see?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 02:08:03 PM
One article from the daily express does not an EU policy make.
There is nothing to corroborate this particular story that was based on a rumour. If you read the article it looks as though the central tenet is denied by everyone else.
How should a serious debating forum respond to one article in a hysterical newspaper which is still banging on about princess diana being murdered by the royal family? Apart from wait and see?
Well quite. 8@??)(
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 02:09:33 PM
It's a two way street Alfie. Why did you want to stay in the EU?
Because I adore immigrants and refugees and also cities (the newer built the better) and because I despise the Green Belt and everything to do with Britain.
Of course!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2016, 02:10:50 PM
One article from the daily express does not an EU policy make.
There is nothing to corroborate this particular story that was based on a rumour. If you read the article it looks as though the central tenet is denied by everyone else.
How should a serious debating forum respond to one article in a hysterical newspaper which is still banging on about princess diana being murdered by the royal family? Apart from wait and see?
I have read it again and people have denied there is the 'political will' among citizens, they have said 'now is not the time' for further integration. Please point me to the bits which deny the 'central tenet'?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 29, 2016, 02:15:38 PM
Spain tells Sturgeon to Back Off!
The Prime Minister of Spain, Mariano Rajoy Brey, has said he is opposed to negotiating any potential EU membership with Scotland.
First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is currently in Brussels, persuading EU members that Scotland "doesn't want to leave" the EU.
However, talking to the media following a summit of European leaders on Wednesday, Mr Brey said: I want to be very clear. Scotland does not have the competence to negotiate with the European Union.
Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of United Kingdom.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 29, 2016, 02:18:25 PM
I have said this all along, Scotland is not a State and as such must go through proper channels when making any representations to the EU.
As a aside, and speaking as someone with first hand knowledge of how Scotland works, it is interesting to see how much Scotland now wants to continue to be an integral part of the EU when its Courts promote such disdain of EU Law.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 02:23:08 PM
I have read it again and people have denied there is the 'political will' among citizens, they have said 'now is not the time' for further integration. Please point me to the bits which deny the 'central tenet'?
Better still, point to the direct quotes in the article from those in charge of the EU outlining the superstate plan and all that it entails.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 29, 2016, 02:29:09 PM
The Prime Minister of Spain, Mariano Rajoy Brey, has said he is opposed to negotiating any potential EU membership with Scotland.
First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is currently in Brussels, persuading EU members that Scotland "doesn't want to leave" the EU.
However, talking to the media following a summit of European leaders on Wednesday, Mr Brey said: I want to be very clear. Scotland does not have the competence to negotiate with the European Union.
Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of United Kingdom.
You mean a ned nod. She reminds me of the nodding dog in the back of my limo.
Back to Brexit, its going really well so far.
What aspects of Brexit are going really well so far in your view? The large reduction in immigrant numbers already or is it the booming economy that you're enjoying?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 29, 2016, 03:06:12 PM
What aspects of Brexit are going really well so far in your view? The large reduction in immigrant numbers already or is it the booming economy that you're enjoying?
The 'poor" students bawling their little immature heads off in Parliament Square in London last night was awe inspiring don't you think?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 29, 2016, 03:14:00 PM
Does that mean we will have no access to Mercedes BMW Audi Peugeot Citroen VW Fiat
Skoda Porsche
Etc Can't see that happening
How do you think we pay for those toys? By running a trade surplus with the EU in invisibles, mainly financial services. Loss of pas sporting would have a catastrophic effect. In the end I predict we will end up with a model very close to the Norway one. Including free movement of people.
The alternative will I anticipate result in a reduction in net migration to around zero. Or below.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 29, 2016, 05:08:36 PM
Are suggesting cutting ourselves off from any trade with the e.u?
That will never happen because the UK imports much more of their kit than we sell to them. As far as free movement is concerned that is all very well but it will exclude non EU nationals. Free movement should not include the right to work and any EU citizen who overstays should be booted out. Irish and Gibraltarians excluded of course.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 29, 2016, 05:19:45 PM
How do you think we pay for those toys? By running a trade surplus with the EU in invisibles, mainly financial services. Loss of pas sporting would have a catastrophic effect. In the end I predict we will end up with a model very close to the Norway one. Including free movement of people.
The alternative will I anticipate result in a reduction in net migration to around zero. Or below.
I can't see anything different happening. They are a bit hot on their four basic freedoms and we are a bit slow on the matter of half our exports going to EU but only ten percent of their exports come to UK....... &%+((£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 29, 2016, 05:26:45 PM
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 05:43:08 PM
The Tories will fail to deliver on the immigration issue. There will be widespread discontent at the perceived BoJo betrayal. UKIP will sweep to power at the start of the 20s 'and Nigel Farage will be our PM.
Happy days, eh?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 29, 2016, 05:43:32 PM
How do you think we pay for those toys? By running a trade surplus with the EU in invisibles, mainly financial services. Loss of pas sporting would have a catastrophic effect. In the end I predict we will end up with a model very close to the Norway one. Including free movement of people.
The alternative will I anticipate result in a reduction in net migration to around zero. Or below.
and Germany will want to make sure we can still afford to buy all those nice German goods
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 29, 2016, 09:26:58 PM
29/6/16 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36660133
"The FTSE 100 has surged through the level it closed at last Thursday, recovering all of the ground it had lost in the wake of the Brexit vote.
The FTSE 100 share index closed up 3.6% at 6,360.1 after a flurry of last-minute trading.
At the close of trade on Thursday last week, before the referendum vote, the FTSE 100 ended the day at 6,338.10.
The pound also strengthened against the dollar and euro.
Analysts said the sharp recovery in the FTSE 100 was unexpected."
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on June 29, 2016, 09:47:10 PM
"The FTSE 100 has surged through the level it closed at last Thursday, recovering all of the ground it had lost in the wake of the Brexit vote.
The FTSE 100 share index closed up 3.6% at 6,360.1 after a flurry of last-minute trading.
At the close of trade on Thursday last week, before the referendum vote, the FTSE 100 ended the day at 6,338.10.
The pound also strengthened against the dollar and euro.
Analysts said the sharp recovery in the FTSE 100 was unexpected."
i think that sums it up.the future is bright 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 29, 2016, 10:12:59 PM
Not quite.
Pound to Dollar 1 : 1.34
Pound to Euro 1 : 1.21
Both still down from before the referendum.
and we are still in the EU, until article 50 is initiated and all procedures associated agreed and ratified.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 29, 2016, 10:48:14 PM
It's early days and it would be nice to think the financial turmoil of the last few days is already behind us but I fear that optmism may be a little premature.
Also of note, from the BBC article:
The FTSE 250 - which contains more UK-focused companies - closed 3.2% higher on Wednesday, but still remains more than 7% below its pre-Brexit level.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 29, 2016, 10:52:34 PM
The Prime Minister of Spain, Mariano Rajoy Brey, has said he is opposed to negotiating any potential EU membership with Scotland.
First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is currently in Brussels, persuading EU members that Scotland "doesn't want to leave" the EU.
However, talking to the media following a summit of European leaders on Wednesday, Mr Brey said: I want to be very clear. Scotland does not have the competence to negotiate with the European Union.
Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of United Kingdom.
And now Francois Hollande had joinen the fray and told Sturgeon and Scotland that they have to leave with the UK. Mr Hollande, the French President, insisted the EU will make no advance deal with Scotland. He said: "The negotiations will be conducted with the United Kingdom, not with a part of the United Kingdom.”
And now Francois Hollande had joinen the fray and told Sturgeon and Scotland that they have to leave with the UK. Mr Hollande, the French President, insisted the EU will make no advance deal with Scotland. He said: "The negotiations will be conducted with the United Kingdom, not with a part of the United Kingdom.”
It's early days and it would be nice to think the financial turmoil of the last few days is already behind us but I fear that optmism may be a little premature.
Also of note, from the BBC article:
The FTSE 250 - which contains more UK-focused companies - closed 3.2% higher on Wednesday, but still remains more than 7% below its pre-Brexit level.
Nearly all the major global indices are down pre Brexit other that FTSE 100 &%+((£
Sterling way down pre Brexit. UK credit rating downgraded by S&P, Fitch and Moodys.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 29, 2016, 11:52:59 PM
So, we see the latent anger of a population over years for a variety of reasons unleashed into a brexit vote...and its all the eus and immgrants fault, so laughable, and to top it all the UK has the arrogance to think it can do any deal it wants riding roughshod over wales scotland and NI...well they better think twice
Meanwhile the pupetteers and backstabbers and sold out souls are having some trouble trying to destroy corbyn and the labour party, well they better thnk twice as well
Ho hum
And Im sure admn wont mind me voicing my disgust at the blatant racism allowed to run loose on ths forum, absolutely disgusting, after all if they have a voice I should too
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 30, 2016, 12:02:22 AM
Oh and btw johnson wont become leader of this country, hes a flippant floosie, just like gove, only gove can beat him at scrabble , thats goves best feature, pub quiz winner
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 30, 2016, 12:03:10 AM
Believe whatever you like, it wasn't any worse than the remain bullshit. People made up their own mind and voted for brexit, get over it.
How can anyone make an informed decision if they're being fed BS? This is the reason I didn't bother voting. This wouldn't be allowed in any other walk of life due to the risk of being sued for providing misleading information:
"Chris Grayling, the Tory Cabinet member and prominent Brexit campaigner, has said the idea of spending millions a week on the NHS instead of the EU was only “an aspiration” – despite a slogan being written in massive letters on the side of the Vote Leave battle bus suggesting £350 million a week could be diverted from the EU to the NHS".
It seems when it comes down to political advertising parties can say what they want under the guise of 'freedom of speech'.
"Political advertising
All complaints of political bias in TV or radio advertising should be made to Ofcom.
For reasons of freedom of speech, we do not have remit over non-broadcast ads where the purpose of the ad is to persuade voters in a local, national or international electoral referendum. Complaints about political advertising should be made directly to the party responsible for that advertising".
How can anyone make an informed decision if they're being fed BS? This is the reason I didn't bother voting. This wouldn't be allowed in any other walk of life due to the risk of being sued for providing misleading information:
"Chris Grayling, the Tory Cabinet member and prominent Brexit campaigner, has said the idea of spending millions a week on the NHS instead of the EU was only “an aspiration” – despite a slogan being written in massive letters on the side of the Vote Leave battle bus suggesting £350 million a week could be diverted from the EU to the NHS".
It seems when it comes down to political advertising parties can say what they want under the guise of 'freedom of speech'.
"Political advertising
All complaints of political bias in TV or radio advertising should be made to Ofcom.
For reasons of freedom of speech, we do not have remit over non-broadcast ads where the purpose of the ad is to persuade voters in a local, national or international electoral referendum. Complaints about political advertising should be made directly to the party responsible for that advertising".
Can't think what that would be, Sturgeon knows that another failed indy referendum would mean the end of her too.
Next time round they will have done their fiscal homework and they will go for it when they know the time is right.
They lost by a whisker last time round; they will retain that vote. Added to that will be enough 'better together' voters to give them their majority. That is her target audience for the Brussels visit, she knows fine the legal situation regarding the part of the whole being ineligible to stay in ... but doesn't at least being seen to be making the effort make for good PR.
Don't underestimate the tenacity or single mindedness of an organisation which would turn cartwheels for 'freedom' from 'English rule' without understanding or even recognising the dichotomy that is exchanging it for 'Brussels rule'.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 30, 2016, 12:17:17 AM
Next time round they will have done their fiscal homework and they will go for it when they know the time is right.
They lost by a whisker last time round; they will retain that vote. Added to that will be enough 'better together' voters to give them their majority. That is her target audience for the Brussels visit, she knows fine the legal situation regarding the part of the whole being ineligible to stay in ... but doesn't at least being seen to be making the effort make for good PR.
Don't underestimate the tenacity or single mindedness of an organisation which would turn cartwheels for 'freedom' from 'English rule' without understanding or even recognising the dichotomy that is exchanging it for 'Brussels rule'.
If scotland would be fnancially worse off with brexit why shouldnt she attempt to escape it? Or do whatever she can to send out the message scotland needs reassurances, camerons not giving ANY reassurances to ANYONE whatsoever, his blanket message is, its the new prime mnisters respnsibility!!
Shes just doing her bleeding job and people are berating her for it and posting pathetic pics
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 30, 2016, 12:23:05 AM
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 30, 2016, 12:37:20 AM
And the queens heritage is german and her hubby is greek
Sheesh
Pls send deportation papers to them pdq And while youre at at it sack the london mayor and all mps includng farage whose heritage is not gene friendly english Even the rivers of blood spokesman mght be turnng in his grave
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on June 30, 2016, 12:57:10 AM
And the queens heritage is german and her hubby is greek
Sheesh
Pls send deportation papers to them pdq And while youre at at it sack the london mayor and all mps includng farage whose heritage is not gene friendly english Even the rivers of blood spokesman mght be turnng in his grave
I thought that you hated racists? £4%4%
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on June 30, 2016, 02:08:57 AM
Show me one post of mine that is racist or supports them or else shut up sadie Youre obviously ncapable of reading irony and piss takes!!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2016, 07:44:17 AM
Things are starting to look better already
France last night signalled the EU could strike a deal with Britain on immigration. In a major boost for hopes of a smooth exit for the UK, finance minister Michel Sapin said there would be no ‘red lines’ in talks over the single market. His declaration of flexibility was backed by Finland’s deputy PM. The first signs of a crack in the EU’s united front came as stock markets rallied and fears of a post-Brexit economic slump eased.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3666971/Europe-starts-crack-migrants-French-say-Britain-trade-deal-control-border.html#ixzz4D2hMIjls Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2016, 07:54:11 AM
EU end? German finance minister warns Juncker EU will DESTROY ITSELF if it doesn't change
Looks like Brexit is going to cause changes for the better
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 08:14:15 AM
On Lyric FM (Irish) radio this morning, there is mention of a second referendum, and Boris Johnson apparently is now willing to negotiate. There was mention of a second referendum even by brexiters prior to the referendum.
I note the Gov.uk petition, after removal of multiple votes from overseas, has now exceeded 4 Million petitioners.
Nice.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2016, 08:23:09 AM
On Lyric radio this morning, there is mention of a second referendum, and Boris Johnson apparently is now willing to negotiate. There was mention of a second referendum even by brexiters prior to the referendum.
I note the Gov.uk petition, after removal of multiple votes from overseas, has now exceeded 4 Million petitioners.
Nice.
There may well be a second third and fourth referendum but they will not be in the UK The people have spoken and Europe has listened and there will be changes Merkel encouraging asylum seekers is a sign of how much the leaders were out of touch with the people
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 30, 2016, 08:39:20 AM
On Lyric radio this morning, there is mention of a second referendum, and Boris Johnson apparently is now willing to negotiate. There was mention of a second referendum even by brexiters prior to the referendum.
I note the Gov.uk petition, after removal of multiple votes from overseas, has now exceeded 4 Million petitioners.
Nice.
I gather 75% of MPs think that leaving the EU is a very bad idea for the country.
The referendum was poorly conducted on both sides.
Brexit will not actually solve the underlying problems. Which are lack of investment in infrastructure, schools, hospitals, roads etc. these have not kept up with the increase in population, and that has been made worse by immigration.
It may sound a bit radical but maybe we should tear up the referendum and immediately.get on with a major building and investment Programme.
I can see a few problems - given we have lowish unemployment we may need to recruit labour from outside, but a two or three year, properly done development programme may improve things for everyone.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 08:39:48 AM
' Was a second referendum part of Boris Johnson’s plan all along? '
If you look at the financial markets, the Brexit vote will wreak havoc on the UK, Europe, and possibly the global economy. But if you look at political history, there are signs that things may not end so dramatically.
Such is the viewpoint (paywall) of Gideon Rachman, a Financial Times columnist who proffered (paywall) months ago that Brexit, then considered unlikely, would actually happen. In a column today (June 27), he writes that his depression over Britain’s vote to leave the EU ended abruptly when he realized that the move is actually just politics as usual for EU members looking to extract concessions from the union.
“Any long-term observer of the EU should be familiar with the shock referendum result. In 1992 the Danes voted to reject the Maastricht treaty. The Irish voted to reject both the Nice treaty in 2001 and the Lisbon treaty in 2008,” he writes. “And what happened in each case? The EU rolled ever onwards.”
Both Denmark and Ireland leveraged these protest votes to extract concessions from the EU, and then held second referendums in which they voted “yes” to the treaties and moved on, still entwined with the EU. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enough said.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 08:50:54 AM
I gather 75% of MPs think that leaving the EU is a very bad idea for the country.
The referendum was poorly conducted on both sides.
Brexit will not actually solve the underlying problems. Which are lack of investment in infrastructure, schools, hospitals, roads etc. these have not kept up with the increase in population, and that has been made worse by immigration.
It may sound a bit radical but maybe we should tear up the referendum and immediately.get on with a major building and investment Programme.
I can see a few problems - given we have lowish unemployment we may need to recruit labour from outside, but a two or three year, properly done development programme may improve things for everyone.
Some interesting points J.P.
Investment in this countries infrastructure is imperative.
To do that, outside labour is essential.
Meanwhile, I note that the current costing of the High Speed rail links has been underestimated, and is also behind schedule. I still have difficulty seeing the merits of a system which will reduce journey times by a matter of a few minutes between cities, especially whilst the current system is in need of upgrading.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 09:04:32 AM
If the politicians don't do what they promised this time and are seen to go back on the verdict of this referendum I predict there will be civil unrest on a scale we haven't seen for a long time, it will also open the doors for UKIP to win a GE. Whilst I don't support withdrawal from the EU, I think there's no going back without even more dire consequences for the country's stability and cohesion....
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 30, 2016, 09:25:45 AM
If the politicians don't do what they promised this time and are seen to go back on the verdict of this referendum I predict there will be civil unrest on a scale we haven't seen for a long time, it will also open the doors for UKIP to win a GE. Whilst I don't support withdrawal from the EU, I think there's no going back without even more dire consequences for the country's stability and cohesion....
Possibly.
Those who voted leave on the grounds of the contribution to the EU or the wish to reduce immigration were lied to by Gove, Johnson, Farage and the rest of the crew.
If we maintain the result of the referendum, and power ahead with leaving membership of the EU, We have two very stark choices.
Norway option, and do ok, but accept free movement of people.
Leave the single market. And face financial catastrophe.
___________
On a more positive level, maybe we can bargain concessions with the EU. hold a second referendum or a GE with a clear manadate and maintain membership.
But we must do something about infrastructure.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 09:38:17 AM
If the politicians don't do what they promised this time and are seen to go back on the verdict of this referendum I predict there will be civil unrest on a scale we haven't seen for a long time, it will also open the doors for UKIP to win a GE. Whilst I don't support withdrawal from the EU, I think there's no going back without even more dire consequences for the country's stability and cohesion....
I note your comments.
I also consider what could happen if we leave the EU without agreements being made, and foreign investment diminishes, and with relocation of businesses to mainland Europe, with subsequent levels of unemployment rising , that also could lead to massive civil unrest, as the lies of the brexiters come home to roost.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 30, 2016, 09:46:17 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36670075
I predict property prices to fall by about 50%.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 09:55:40 AM
On Sky News, Michael Gove is standing for the Conservative Party leadership., saying that Boris
'CANNOT PROVIDE LEADERSHIP OR BUILD THE TEAM FOR THE TASK AHEAD'
@)(++(* @)(++(*
There is nothing like the Tory party when it comes to back-stabbing each other.
In an interview before the referendum, I recall Gove stating he had no interest in becoming the Tory Party leader.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 30, 2016, 10:07:40 AM
BJ and MG will surely be forever tainted with the Brexit lies. I'm not saying there wasn't as much misleading info from remain but TM didn't seem to get embroiled in it.
So it might come down to Angela need a bra fitting Eagles or Theresa May. I know where my vote will be going!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 10:12:48 AM
Theresa May on Boris's negotiating chances:
"The last time he did a deal with the Germans he came back with three nearly-new water cannon."
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 10:14:29 AM
BJ and MG will surely be forever tainted with the Brexit lies. I'm not saying there wasn't as much misleading info from remain but TM didn't seem to get embroiled in it.
So it might come down to Angela need a bra fitting Eagles or Theresa May. I know where my vote will be going!
Not hard to guess Holly. %£5&%
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on June 30, 2016, 10:30:36 AM
If the politicians don't do what they promised this time and are seen to go back on the verdict of this referendum I predict there will be civil unrest on a scale we haven't seen for a long time, it will also open the doors for UKIP to win a GE. Whilst I don't support withdrawal from the EU, I think there's no going back without even more dire consequences for the country's stability and cohesion....
I agree. Mostly people rub along being allowed to 'choose' at a General Election although the choice is extremely limited. This referendum was direct democracy, however, with a clear result.
People are horrified at the reaction of the politicians and the media. Denigrating voters because the result didn't suit them. Cameron refusing to implement the result. Labour MP's defying the democratic will of their own party.
The vote probably wasn't seen as a blow for democracy, but the result has highlighted how little store politicians and the media value it. They have made it the issue now.
It seems Angela Eagle is said the be challenging Jeremy Corbyn's leadership despite her constituency telling her they support him. Which bit of 'representation' do these arrogant MP's not understand? http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/14585110.Angela_Eagle_under_pressure_from_Wallasey_Labour_party_over_Corbyn_vote/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 10:32:43 AM
Tory Leadership bid could tear Party apart!
Theresa May and Michael Gove have both entered bids to become leader of the Conservative Party and thereafter become Prime Minister by default.
Despite partnering Johnson in the EU referendum, Gove is now saying that Johnson does not have the leadership qualities required to lead the Conservative Party. For her part Theresa May today mocked Johnson saying that his negotiating skills only extend to buying used water cannons from the Germans. She also said that she would not call a General Election until 2020 and would not invoke EU Article 50 until the end of the year.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 10:36:34 AM
On Sky News, Michael Gove is standing for the Conservative Party leadership., saying that Boris
'CANNOT PROVIDE LEADERSHIP OR BUILD THE TEAM FOR THE TASK AHEAD'
@)(++(* @)(++(*
There is nothing like the Tory party when it comes to back-stabbing each other.
In an interview before the referendum, I recall Gove stating he had no interest in becoming the Tory Party leader.
It seems that e-mail from Gove's wife was the catalyst. Johnson is to speak publicly very shortly, it will be interesting to hear his response to the backstabbers.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 30, 2016, 10:48:46 AM
Those who voted leave on the grounds of the contribution to the EU or the wish to reduce immigration were lied to by Gove, Johnson, Farage and the rest of the crew.
If we maintain the result of the referendum, and power ahead with leaving membership of the EU, We have two very stark choices.
Norway option, and do ok, but accept free movement of people.
Leave the single market. And face financial catastrophe.
___________
On a more positive level, maybe we can bargain concessions with the EU. hold a second referendum or a GE with a clear manadate and maintain membership.
But we must do something about infrastructure.
A lot of what we have done is the result of specific EU grants. OK we paid in but EU allowed the money back on conditions. Now "we are in charge" will that money be spent to the benefit appropriate areas as before or pissed up against the wall on white elephants ? to use a interesting mix of phrases ?{)(**
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 10:51:01 AM
I agree. Mostly people rub along being allowed to 'choose' at a General Election although the choice is extremely limited. This referendum was direct democracy, however, with a clear result.
People are horrified at the reaction of the politicians and the media. Denigrating voters because the result didn't suit them. Cameron refusing to implement the result. Labour MP's defying the democratic will of their own party.
The vote probably wasn't seen as a blow for democracy, but the result has highlighted how little store politicians and the media value it. They have made it the issue now.
It seems Angela Eagle is said the be challenging Jeremy Corbyn's leadership despite her constituency telling her they support him. Which bit of 'representation' do these arrogant MP's not understand? http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/14585110.Angela_Eagle_under_pressure_from_Wallasey_Labour_party_over_Corbyn_vote/
I am afraid to say G-Unit, that the Labour M.P.'s are quite entitled to have held the vote of confidence in their 'leader'.
Corbyn has surrounded himself with toadies.
He is a decent man, but he is deluding himself, if he really thinks he can bring a Labour victory.
As to backing within the party, we shall see in the election for the nest leader.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Brietta on June 30, 2016, 10:53:11 AM
In the meantime, the posturing and mischief making will continue, taking the eye off the ball and scrutiny of the job politicians were elected to do ... and that is running the country effectively. The potholes wrecking our wheels are nothing at all to do with Europe.
One of the opening salvos was fired in Westminster in the SNP war of attrition with the Pete Wishart 'attempt' quoting Erskine May to be recognised as the official opposition.
SNP's bid to replace Labour as Commons opposition rejected http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36660386
You ain't seen nothin' yet, they are very good at this, and with the lure of another stab at a separation referendum very much on the cards (I believe Quebec are agitating for another) there is much more capital to be made from such posturing. Nicola Sturgeon was not 'wasting her time' being rebuffed in Europe. She was there as a cog in a well oiled machine.
The country could well do without all of this. I am of the same opinion as Alfie. A democratic vote was taken unfortunately without the prior safeguard of a percentage rule on the outcome and we are bound by the will of the majority.
Instead of getting bogged down as we seem to be at present, our politicians need to look to the future and make this divisive thing work as best as it can. First of all by getting the best exit deal possible. The SNP didn't exactly hit the ground running post Brexit, even their strategists in their wildest dreams couldn't believe their luck, but they are running with a head of steam now and leaving everyone else wandering around at the starting post scratching their heads.
Our unionist and internationalist MPs are letting us down by their lack of control of the situation.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 11:04:39 AM
Theresa May and Michael Gove have both entered bids to become leader of the Conservative Party and thereafter become Prime Minister by default.
Despite partnering Johnson in the EU referendum, Gove is now saying that Johnson does not have the leadership qualities required to lead the Conservative Party. For her part Theresa May today mocked Johnson saying that his negotiating skills only extend to buying used water cannons from the Germans. She also said that she would not call a General Election until 2020 and would not invoke EU Article 50 until the end of the year.
Unbe-freakin-lievable. Except it's not @)(++(* Bunch of snakes the lot of them.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 30, 2016, 11:05:03 AM
In the meantime, the posturing and mischief making will continue, taking the eye off the ball and scrutiny of the job politicians were elected to do ... and that is running the country effectively. The potholes wrecking our wheels are nothing at all to do with Europe.
One of the opening salvos was fired in Westminster in the SNP war of attrition with the Pete Wishart 'attempt' quoting Erskine May to be recognised as the official opposition.
SNP's bid to replace Labour as Commons opposition rejected http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36660386
You ain't seen nothin' yet, they are very good at this, and with the lure of another stab at a separation referendum very much on the cards (I believe Quebec are agitating for another) there is much more capital to be made from such posturing. Nicola Sturgeon was not 'wasting her time' being rebuffed in Europe. She was there as a cog in a well oiled machine.
The country could well do without all of this. I am of the same opinion as Alfie. A democratic vote was taken unfortunately without the prior safeguard of a percentage rule on the outcome and we are bound by the will of the majority.
Instead of getting bogged down as we seem to be at present, our politicians need to look to the future and make this divisive thing work as best as it can. First of all by getting the best exit deal possible. The SNP didn't exactly hit the ground running post Brexit, even their strategists in their wildest dreams couldn't believe their luck, but they are running with a head of steam now and leaving everyone else wandering around at the starting post scratching their heads.
Our unionist and internationalist MPs are letting us down by their lack of control of the situation.
But not in a referendum which has no legal standing. Spin out invoking Article 50 long enough and one might have an opportunity to play the "circumstances have changed" card and maintain the status quo. All the huffing and puffing going in Europe at present is from "the founding fathers", don't forget there are another 22 nations involved all with a vote.
I agree with being bogged down. Over 600 MP's and not a leader among them. Well with two possible exceptions that is.............
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 11:07:39 AM
In the meantime, the posturing and mischief making will continue, taking the eye off the ball and scrutiny of the job politicians were elected to do ... and that is running the country effectively. The potholes wrecking our wheels are nothing at all to do with Europe.
One of the opening salvos was fired in Westminster in the SNP war of attrition with the Pete Wishart 'attempt' quoting Erskine May to be recognised as the official opposition.
SNP's bid to replace Labour as Commons opposition rejected http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36660386
You ain't seen nothin' yet, they are very good at this, and with the lure of another stab at a separation referendum very much on the cards (I believe Quebec are agitating for another) there is much more capital to be made from such posturing. Nicola Sturgeon was not 'wasting her time' being rebuffed in Europe. She was there as a cog in a well oiled machine.
The country could well do without all of this. I am of the same opinion as Alfie. A democratic vote was taken unfortunately without the prior safeguard of a percentage rule on the outcome and we are bound by the will of the majority.
Instead of getting bogged down as we seem to be at present, our politicians need to look to the future and make this divisive thing work as best as it can. First of all by getting the best exit deal possible. The SNP didn't exactly hit the ground running post Brexit, even their strategists in their wildest dreams couldn't believe their luck, but they are running with a head of steam now and leaving everyone else wandering around at the starting post scratching their heads.
Our unionist and internationalist MPs are letting us down by their lack of control of the situation.
Basically Brietta, the situation is a mess, an with the major uncertainty in the main two political parties as regards leadership, there will be no short term fix.
Also, when the new leaders are elected, the best way forward in my view would be a GE, merely to clear the way for what ever happens next.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 11:08:53 AM
But not in a referendum which has no legal standing. Spin out invoking Article 50 long enough and one might have an opportunity to play the "circumstances have changed" card and maintain the status quo. All the huffing and puffing going in Europe at present is from "the founding fathers", don't forget there are another 22 nations involved all with a vote.
I agree with being bogged down. Over 600 MP's and not a leader among them. Well with two possible exceptions that is.............
Don't the other EU states have to ratify the U.K.'s exit ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Brietta on June 30, 2016, 11:12:37 AM
Basically Brietta, the situation is a mess, an with the major uncertainty in the main two political parties as regards leadership, there will be no short term fix.
Also, when the new leaders are elected, the best way forward in my view would be a GE, merely to clear the way for what ever happens next.
Agreed, Stephen.
In my opinion it is also clear that Jeremy Corbyn is not the man to lead Labour into that GE.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 30, 2016, 11:32:44 AM
Theresa May and Michael Gove have both entered bids to become leader of the Conservative Party and thereafter become Prime Minister by default.
Despite partnering Johnson in the EU referendum, Gove is now saying that Johnson does not have the leadership qualities required to lead the Conservative Party. For her part Theresa May today mocked Johnson saying that his negotiating skills only extend to buying used water cannons from the Germans. She also said that she would not call a General Election until 2020 and would not invoke EU Article 50 until the end of the year.
Smooth move.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 30, 2016, 11:34:40 AM
Boris "The Peoples Princess Prime Minister"
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 11:49:03 AM
Only if he dies in a tragic car accident in a tunnel under the Seine (keeps fingers crossed) #anyonebutboris
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 11:54:50 AM
Well, Boris has ruled himself out of the leadership election.
%£5&% %£5&% %£5&%
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 11:56:31 AM
In case you haven't noticed from history, this is par for the course in the Tory party.
Of those standing, either Crabbe or May, are IMO the preferable candidates.
Meanwhile in the Labour election, IMO, Ms. Eagle hasn't got it what it takes to be P.M. either.
Someone with charisma is needed. Ms. Eagle, whilst being a good M.P. doesn't have what it takes in today's world, where someone's appearance seems more important than what they stand for.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 30, 2016, 12:32:57 PM
Are there any policies of hers you particularly support, or is it just because she doesn't have a penis?
She's been quietly but excellently efficient in her present post. Leader of Europe's most powerful nation = female. Probable next leader of US = female. Scottish leader = female Welsh leader = female.
And the absence of a penis is the biggest bonus of all.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 12:35:45 PM
She's been quietly but excellently efficient in her present post. Leader of Europe's most powerful nation = female. Probable next leader of US = female. Scottish leader = female Welsh leader = female.
And the absence of a penis is the biggest bonus of all.
Well I would be surprised Misty if any of them did possess one. @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 30, 2016, 12:43:26 PM
I am afraid to say G-Unit, that the Labour M.P.'s are quite entitled to have held the vote of confidence in their 'leader'.
Corbyn has surrounded himself with toadies.
He is a decent man, but he is deluding himself, if he really thinks he can bring a Labour victory.
As to backing within the party, we shall see in the election for the nest leader.
Being entitled to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing or the right moment to do it. They are members of a party which rejected their approved candidates. In other words their party rejected their vision of the way forward. Trying to force his resignation was a cowardly way to try to get rid of Corbyn. If they're so sure he's the wrong leader the party should choose, not just the MP's. We shall see if they can beat him fair and square in a leadership election.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 30, 2016, 12:50:07 PM
In case you haven't noticed from history, this is par for the course in the Tory party.
Of those standing, either Crabbe or May, are IMO the preferable candidates.
Meanwhile in the Labour election, IMO, Ms. Eagle hasn't got it what it takes to be P.M. either.
Someone with charisma is needed. Ms. Eagle, whilst being a good M.P. doesn't have what it takes in today's world, where someone's appearance seems more important than what they stand for.
A lot of Lab MP's let themselves down badly with their personal appearance. Perhaps one of the reasons TB was so successful.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 12:50:58 PM
Being entitled to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing or the right moment to do it. They are members of a party which rejected their approved candidates. In other words their party rejected their vision of the way forward. Trying to force his resignation was a cowardly way to try to get rid of Corbyn. If they're so sure he's the wrong leader the party should choose, not just the MP's. We shall see if they can beat him fair and square in a leadership election.
We shall see.
It is also known that members of the Socialist Workers Party and the Communist party registered with the Labour Party, as did members of the Conservative Party as well, in the last Labour leader election.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
Being entitled to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing or the right moment to do it. They are members of a party which rejected their approved candidates. In other words their party rejected their vision of the way forward. Trying to force his resignation was a cowardly way to try to get rid of Corbyn. If they're so sure he's the wrong leader the party should choose, not just the MP's. We shall see if they can beat him fair and square in a leadership election.
There is a major disconnect between Labour MPs and Labour party members - something has to give. A new party seems to be the most logical step out of this impasse.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 30, 2016, 01:06:54 PM
In the meantime, the posturing and mischief making will continue, taking the eye off the ball and scrutiny of the job politicians were elected to do ... and that is running the country effectively. The potholes wrecking our wheels are nothing at all to do with Europe.
One of the opening salvos was fired in Westminster in the SNP war of attrition with the Pete Wishart 'attempt' quoting Erskine May to be recognised as the official opposition.
SNP's bid to replace Labour as Commons opposition rejected http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36660386
You ain't seen nothin' yet, they are very good at this, and with the lure of another stab at a separation referendum very much on the cards (I believe Quebec are agitating for another) there is much more capital to be made from such posturing. Nicola Sturgeon was not 'wasting her time' being rebuffed in Europe. She was there as a cog in a well oiled machine.
The country could well do without all of this. I am of the same opinion as Alfie. A democratic vote was taken unfortunately without the prior safeguard of a percentage rule on the outcome and we are bound by the will of the majority.
Instead of getting bogged down as we seem to be at present, our politicians need to look to the future and make this divisive thing work as best as it can. First of all by getting the best exit deal possible. The SNP didn't exactly hit the ground running post Brexit, even their strategists in their wildest dreams couldn't believe their luck, but they are running with a head of steam now and leaving everyone else wandering around at the starting post scratching their heads.
Our unionist and internationalist MPs are letting us down by their lack of control of the situation.
Nicola Sturgeon is a loose cannon as is the SNP leader in the Commons. Their posturing and boast that the Scottish government will veto the exit was a load of bull. I was so glad both the Spanish and the French put a shot across their bows yesterday. Someone had to tell them to piss off!!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on June 30, 2016, 01:10:59 PM
Hilary Rodham as she then was formed part of the team of lawyers involved in the impeachment of Tricky [Name removed] aka Richard Nixon, because he was bent.................. &%+((£
Hilary first one, I think, to use the term "I misspoke" when meaning I lied. She wanted us to support ISIL because Assad was a seriously bad dude. And William Hague followed her around like he was her puppy saying much the same. Anymore for anymore
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: misty on June 30, 2016, 01:27:15 PM
The Tories know that if we had an election tomorrow that UKIP would do extremely well.
. On what basis do you believe that? UKIP & Tory both offered the people the referendum choice in the last election. Only the party manifesto differed & was rejected by the voters then, so what has changed?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 02:31:53 PM
REMEMBER, he stated categorically, he didn't want to become P.M. before the referendum.
Which makes him an unmitigated LIAR.
Not necessarily Stephen, circumstances change and he simply reviewed the situation and his options. I have a feeling he wanted to be Chancellor but Boris wouldnt play ball... or cricket.
Cameron saying before the referendum that he would remain as PM regardless of the outcome was a lie in my book. Many people made their decision on the basis that he would still be running the country after the referendum and for some time to come. He let the country down in my view.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 01, 2016, 12:29:58 PM
Gove has just said if he becomes P.M.
No article 50 until 2017. @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on July 01, 2016, 12:38:44 PM
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 01, 2016, 05:51:07 PM
It's clear that there's a divide in the UK. 54% of English voters and 52% of Welsh voters voted leave. Take out London and the English vote was larger. Ignoring those voters would be very foolish in my opinion. Instead of trotting off on their hols it would be sensible of MP's to get back to their constituencies and try to find out just why so many of the English and Welsh people are unhappy with membership of the EU. They should try listening for a change.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on July 01, 2016, 07:01:15 PM
It's clear that there's a divide in the UK. 54% of English voters and 52% of Welsh voters voted leave. Take out London and the English vote was larger. Ignoring those voters would be very foolish in my opinion. Instead of trotting off on their hols it would be sensible of MP's to get back to their constituencies and try to find out just why so many of the English and Welsh people are unhappy with membership of the EU. They should try listening for a change.
We know why most of England and Wales outside of London is anti EU and that is because there is a perceived understanding that the EU is forking money into London and the south east to the detriment of every other region.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 01, 2016, 08:12:28 PM
We know why most of England and Wales outside of London is anti EU and that is because there is a perceived understanding that the EU is forking money into London and the south east to the detriment of every other region.
That is bizarre considering the amount shoved into Manchester, Merseyside and Cheshire over the last 20 years. There are others no doubt. We had a chunk in South West for road improvement.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 01, 2016, 08:36:16 PM
Perhaps it wasn't about money? Perhaps it wasn't about age, class, levels of education or immigration? Perhaps the reasons were varied and wide ranging, who knows? No-one knows for sure but someone needs to make the effort to find out. Until they do only one fact is known. They voted to leave the EU and deserve to get what they voted for asap.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on July 02, 2016, 12:02:29 AM
Perhaps the definition of majority should be reconsidered
If its roughly 50 50 it cant bode well at any time?
Because half will always be unhappy, or right or wrong
@)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 02, 2016, 11:08:15 AM
Perhaps it wasn't about money? Perhaps it wasn't about age, class, levels of education or immigration? Perhaps the reasons were varied and wide ranging, who knows? No-one knows for sure but someone needs to make the effort to find out. Until they do only one fact is known. They voted to leave the EU and deserve to get what they voted for asap.
They deserve a result in accordance with the rules. Mind you the rules should be explained clearly beforehand. Referendum= not legally binding Laws=enacted by parliament Parliament=sovereign in the wider sense. Cut to the chase: vote how you please but we [parliament] may not take any notice cos the rules allow us not to.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 02, 2016, 11:53:36 AM
Anti-democratic marches in London today.
Are you protesting against Brexit this weekend?
Thousands are expected to march against the EU referendum result. If you’re taking part, share your experiences with us.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 02, 2016, 12:31:47 PM
Although the leave vote was carried by a narrow margin in the UK as a whole the margin was wider in English areas, excluding London. England voted Leave;
West Midlands 59.26% East Midlands 58.82% North East England 58.04% Yorkshire and the Humber 57.71% East of England 56.48% North West England 53.65% South West England & Gibraltar 52.63% South East England 51.78%
I make the English vote 56% Leave and 44% Remain.
Northern Ireland. London and Scotland voted Remain;
Northern Ireland 55.78% London 59.93% Scotland 62.00%
I make these votes 59% Remain and 41% Leave.
76% of the UK population live in England (excluding London). 24% live in London, Scotland and Northern Ireland, with the majority in London (8.5M). Northern Ireland have 1.8M and Scotland 5.3M.
Leaving aside age, class and education why does this geographical divide exist? How is it that the loudest voices seem to be those of 24% of the population? Perhaps that was a factor in this vote, that the English feel that they aren't heard and aren't considered?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 02, 2016, 12:39:23 PM
The leave campaign was tarnished with lies from the start. So how do we know how many people believed the lies and how many genuinely wanted to leave.
Also, almost one third of the electorate didn't vote, so the number of people voting exit did not constitute a majority and that would been the case if the result had been the other way.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 02, 2016, 12:40:36 PM
It's clear that there's a divide in the UK. 54% of English voters and 52% of Welsh voters voted leave. Take out London and the English vote was larger. Ignoring those voters would be very foolish in my opinion. Instead of trotting off on their hols it would be sensible of MP's to get back to their constituencies and try to find out just why so many of the English and Welsh people are unhappy with membership of the EU. They should try listening for a change.
One word, Immigration.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 02, 2016, 01:41:49 PM
There is now an online petition at Google.uk asking for the immediate implementation of Article 50.
Just over 15,000 signatures at the moment
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 02, 2016, 02:14:14 PM
Immigrants are most concentrated in big urban centres such as Nottingham, Bradford, Peterborough, Birmingham, and London - where some seats have foreign-born populations of over 55 per cent. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11539388/Mapped-where-is-Ukips-support-strongest-Where-there-are-no-immigrants.html
Apart from London did any of the areas with the most immigrants vote Remain? No, they didn't. So either all the immigrants stayed home or a lot of them voted Leave. It may be that it's EU immigration that's the problem then, not immigration per se.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 02, 2016, 02:22:14 PM
Immigrants are most concentrated in big urban centres such as Nottingham, Bradford, Peterborough, Birmingham, and London - where some seats have foreign-born populations of over 55 per cent. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11539388/Mapped-where-is-Ukips-support-strongest-Where-there-are-no-immigrants.html
Apart from London did any of the areas with the most immigrants vote Remain? No, they didn't. So either all the immigrants stayed home or a lot of them voted Leave. It may be that it's EU immigration that's the problem then, not immigration per se.
As you know G-Unit, immigrants, whether from the EU or outside are net beneficiaries to the Treasury.
IMO, a good proportion of the exit votes are the result of ignorance.
I note in the Guardian today, it has been reported hate crimes against immigrants are up 500 %.
I can't provide the link now , but I will later, when I am back on a P.C. or laptop
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 02, 2016, 02:57:43 PM
I don't understand what that has to do with immigrants seemingly voting to leave the EU, Stephen?
If making money is so important to the country perhaps we should expel all those who cost money? The old, the disabled, the low-paid, the sick and the unemployed can all go. Then the UK can replace them with profitable immigrants. If they become a drain on the economy over time they can be thrown out and we can get new ones.nk
Suggesting that people have voted a certain way out of ignorance is unacceptable in my opinion. Unless reasonable evidence can be cited it's just a biased opinion.
Accusations and scare-mongering are rife. I'm quite ashamed of my country at the moment. The oldest democracy in the world is rejecting the result of a democratic vote by any means it can find, fair or foul.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 02, 2016, 03:06:01 PM
I don't understand what that has to do with immigrants seemingly voting to leave the EU, Stephen?
If making money is so important to the country perhaps we should expel all those who cost money? The old, the disabled, the low-paid, the sick and the unemployed can all go. Then the UK can replace them with profitable immigrants. If they become a drain on the economy over time they can be thrown out and we can get new ones.nk
Suggesting that people have voted a certain way out of ignorance is unacceptable in my opinion. Unless reasonable evidence can be cited it's just a biased opinion.
Accusations and scare-mongering are rife. I'm quite ashamed of my country at the moment. The oldest democracy in the world is rejecting the result of a democratic vote by any means it can find, fair or foul.
Two things G-United.
People can be extremely ignorant.
Second, a majority of the electorate did not vote to leave. It was a minority of the electorate who chose to.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 02, 2016, 03:42:41 PM
Second, a majority of the electorate did not vote to leave. It was a minority of the electorate who chose to.
It doesn't matter whether people are ignorant or not. Each eligible person has one vote, even those who have superiority complexes. What they do with their vote is up to them. I expect unemployed, disabled and low paid people voted Conservative in the last two General Elections and boy did they pay for it. Their choice, though.
Can you tell us the figure you are using for 'the electorate' please? Not that it matters. Just as in any UK election the votes which count are those which are cast.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on July 02, 2016, 04:06:11 PM
Come on. This is a highly complex issue, beyond the ken of most folk - myself included. I'm reasonably intelligent but found it hard to know who or what to believe. If I'm an average Joe then it's fair to say the average voter was not well-informed enough to make a decision based on knowledge, experience or facts. I would go so far as to say most voters chose remain or leave based on gut instinct and how much they liked or disliked the cut of the respective capaigners' jibs. I can't prove this, so don't bother asking for cites - it's called an opinion.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 02, 2016, 05:03:33 PM
Whatever happened to The Gnomes of Zurich ? Are they good guys or bad guys these days ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 02, 2016, 05:10:21 PM
It doesn't matter whether people are ignorant or not. Each eligible person has one vote, even those who have superiority complexes. What they do with their vote is up to them. I expect unemployed, disabled and low paid people voted Conservative in the last two General Elections and boy did they pay for it. Their choice, though.
Can you tell us the figure you are using for 'the electorate' please? Not that it matters. Just as in any UK election the votes which count are those which are cast.
46,500,001 according to the Telegraph.
72.2 % of the electorate voted.
17.4 million voted to leave.
37.42 %.
Not a majority of the electoral population, is it ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Brietta on July 02, 2016, 05:23:50 PM
Anger over 'Bregret' as Leave voters say they thought UK would stay in EU Some said they had not forseen the immediate economic impact, while others were angry at Nigel Farage's admission that NHS funding claim was a 'mistake' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-anger-bregret-leave-voters-protest-vote-thought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html
'I'm full of regret' - extraordinary moment Brexit voter changes her mind http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/im-full-of-regret---extraordinary-moment-brexit-voter-changes-he/
The Bregretters! How some voters who backed Leave vote now claim they want to STAY in the EU . . . 'I didn't think my vote would count' Some Leave voters expressed unease at today's shock referendum result One woman said she was 'disappointed' and would vote Remain next time Another man said he opted Brexit because his vote would be insignificant One voter said she felt 'robbed' of her vote because she was fed 'lies' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658563/Meet-Bregretters-Public-backed-Leave-vote-say-want-STAY-EU-one-admits-didn-t-think-vote-count.html#ixzz4DGgtRetQ
BBC guest who voted for Brexit mocked after admitting he didn't think his vote would count
A VOTER has been mocked on Twitter after admitting he didn't think his vote for Brexit would count. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683029/man-votes-leave-twitter-adam-bbc
METRO People are already regretting voting to leave the EU – here’s what they told us Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/people-are-already-regretting-voting-to-leave-the-eu-heres-what-they-told-us-5965067/#ixzz4DGhaXCdD
These Leave voters have changed their minds since voting Brexit - but it's too late http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/leave-voters-changed-minds-voting-8275841
It must be unprecedented for so many voters to immediately regret how they voted when the result was announced, none more so than the 'charismatic' leader of the campaign ... photographs taken on the day of victory in my opinion show a man who cannot believe what he has had a major part in doing.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 02, 2016, 06:46:49 PM
Come on. This is a highly complex issue, beyond the ken of most folk - myself included. I'm reasonably intelligent but found it hard to know who or what to believe. If I'm an average Joe then it's fair to say the average voter was not well-informed enough to make a decision based on knowledge, experience or facts. I would go so far as to say most voters chose remain or leave based on gut instinct and how much they liked or disliked the cut of the respective capaigners' jibs. I can't prove this, so don't bother asking for cites - it's called an opinion.
I agree completely. If ignorance was a feature it was widespread because, as you say, it's a very difficult subject to understand. That's why playing the blame game is ridiculous. Everyone who voted did so to the best of their ability.
There are advantages and disadvantages to EU membership. Those who voted Leave thought the disadvantages outweighed the advantages. Time will tell if they were right or wrong, not politicians, business leaders, celebrities or the media,
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 02, 2016, 06:58:49 PM
Not a majority of the electoral population, is it ?
When did a majority of the electoral population last win a vote? Ever? As is usual some didn't register to vote. Some registered but didn't vote. If people choose not to exercise their right to vote that's up to them. The only ones who count are those who vote.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 02, 2016, 07:04:07 PM
When did a majority of the electoral population last win a vote? Ever? As is usual some didn't register to vote. Some registered but didn't vote. If people choose not to exercise their right to vote that's up to them. The only ones who count are those who vote.
You can swing it anyway you want to.
However, a majority of the electorate did not vote for Brexit.
FACT.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on July 02, 2016, 07:04:18 PM
I agree completely. If ignorance was a feature it was widespread because, as you say, it's a very difficult subject to understand. That's why playing the blame game is ridiculous. Everyone who voted did so to the best of their ability.
There are advantages and disadvantages to EU membership. Those who voted Leave thought the disadvantages outweighed the advantages. Time will tell if they were right or wrong, not politicians, business leaders, celebrities or the media,
I blame the idiot who called the referendum in the first place. On a complex issue like this I dont think asking 48 million ignorant people to decide is the most sensible way forward.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 02, 2016, 07:16:10 PM
I blame the idiot who called the referendum in the first place. On a complex issue like this I dont think asking 48 million ignorant people to decide is the most sensible way forward.
Particularly as The Remainers could not tell the truth without playing into The Leavers hands. In simplistic terms: The EU has too much power say The Leavers. Brussels and Strasbourg are the centres for the "Civil Service" of the largest trading bloc in the world ; The Remainers to move next ........................ &%+((£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 02, 2016, 07:27:12 PM
I blame the idiot who called the referendum in the first place. On a complex issue like this I dont think asking 48 million ignorant people to decide is the most sensible way forward.
True. He's supposed to understand the issues. He campaigned for Remain. If remaining in the EU was so important why did he play fast and loose with the UK's membership? To win a General Election lasting five years? Did he put short-term success for his party above the future of his country? It seems so. He then let both party and country down again by refusing to deal with the mess he created.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on July 02, 2016, 07:29:58 PM
True. He's supposed to understand the issues. He campaigned for Remain. If remaining in the EU was so important why did he play fast and loose with the UK's membership? To win a General Election lasting five years? Did he put short-term success for his party above the future of his country? It seems so. He then let both party and country down again by refusing to deal with the mess he created.
He did it to placate the Far right Eurosceptics of the party and gambled that Remain vote would win. What a loser!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 02, 2016, 08:09:12 PM
However, a majority of the electorate did not vote for Brexit.
FACT.
It may be a FACT but SO WHAT?
A majority of the Electorate have never voted for anything as far as I know. The last time a UK political party won a majority of the votes cast was 1931!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 02, 2016, 08:15:52 PM
A majority of the Electorate have never voted for anything as far as I know. The last time a UK political party won a majority of the votes cast was 1931!
The point is straightforward.
A majority of the voting population has NOT voted for Brexit.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 02, 2016, 08:22:40 PM
Apparently Tony Bennett, tried to start a petition for the implementation of Article 50.
Someone beat him to it.
It will be interesting to mark it's progress in comparison to the one asking for a second referendum, which has now reached just over 4,099,000.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Brietta on July 02, 2016, 08:45:28 PM
Although the leave vote was carried by a narrow margin in the UK as a whole the margin was wider in English areas, excluding London. England voted Leave;
West Midlands 59.26% East Midlands 58.82% North East England 58.04% Yorkshire and the Humber 57.71% East of England 56.48% North West England 53.65% South West England & Gibraltar 52.63% South East England 51.78%
I make the English vote 56% Leave and 44% Remain.
Northern Ireland. London and Scotland voted Remain;
Northern Ireland 55.78% London 59.93% Scotland 62.00%
I make these votes 59% Remain and 41% Leave.
76% of the UK population live in England (excluding London). 24% live in London, Scotland and Northern Ireland, with the majority in London (8.5M). Northern Ireland have 1.8M and Scotland 5.3M.
Leaving aside age, class and education why does this geographical divide exist? How is it that the loudest voices seem to be those of 24% of the population? Perhaps that was a factor in this vote, that the English feel that they aren't heard and aren't considered?
You can ignore N Ireland and Scotland since their vote had everything to do with Republicanism and Nationalism and little to do with the EU. If you look at the actual figures for both countries the remainers never achieved a majority of the eligible voters ie Scots First Minister and leader of the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon, failed to carry the majority of eligible voters in the country.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on July 03, 2016, 06:09:49 PM
Come on. This is a highly complex issue, beyond the ken of most folk - myself included. I'm reasonably intelligent but found it hard to know who or what to believe. If I'm an average Joe then it's fair to say the average voter was not well-informed enough to make a decision based on knowledge, experience or facts. I would go so far as to say most voters chose remain or leave based on gut instinct and how much they liked or disliked the cut of the respective capaigners' jibs. I can't prove this, so don't bother asking for cites - it's called an opinion.
I agree, most people have heard the arguments and can see the results for themselves every day of unchecked immigration. Don't go complaining next time a foreigner takes your job or beats you in a job interview.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 03, 2016, 06:21:33 PM
..and there's this one.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133540
Let Parliament decide whether or not we remain a member of the European Union.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on July 03, 2016, 06:22:33 PM
good point.sounds like double standards or blatant racism &%+((£
They were trying to cut immigration numbers but the EU immigrants couldn't be restricted so they picked on everyone else.
As it stands they have to take anyone from the EU; desirable or undesirable. So they made it difficult for British citizens to bring their foreign spouses in.
They say cultural diversity is valued but placed obstacles in the way of those from the Indian sub continent who have traditionally chosen spouses from 'back home'.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: rotti on July 03, 2016, 07:32:56 PM
They were trying to cut immigration numbers but the EU immigrants couldn't be restricted so they picked on everyone else.
As it stands they have to take anyone from the EU; desirable or undesirable. So they made it difficult for British citizens to bring their foreign spouses in.
They say cultural diversity is valued but placed obstacles in the way of those from the Indian sub continent who have traditionally chosen spouses from 'back home'.
totally agree,well said . 8((()*/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 03, 2016, 07:38:20 PM
' Theresa May: Cutting EU migration will have to wait '
Who put Merkel in charge then? Juncker was elected by a majority of the European Parliament, not by Germany. Is another democratic process to be overturned? It seems the EU has the same disregard for democracy as our Labour MP's have.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 03, 2016, 08:22:46 PM
'Angela Merkel could move to oust Europe’s federalist chief Jean-Claude Juncker 'within the next year', a Germany government minister has said, in a sign of deepening European divisions over how to respond to Britain’s Brexit vote.
The German chancellor’s frustration with the European Commission chief came as Europe split over whether to use the Brexit negotiations as a trigger to deepen European integration or take a more pragmatic approach to Britain as it heads for the exit door.'
'Could' seems the operative word.
Totally meaningless.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 03, 2016, 09:13:17 PM
...and where do you think the ancestors of this country partly came from, Alpha Centauri perhaps ? @)(++(* @)(++(*
Oh by the way, have you studied the origins of European languages ?
I hate to hark back to the past but the UK was the only country to escape occupation in WW2. We stood firm against naked aggression. We made our own minds up and did what we thought was right. Clearly our paths had diverged, we had forged a different nation with a different culture and different goals.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 03, 2016, 09:34:51 PM
I hate to hark back to the past but the UK was the only country to escape occupation in WW2. We stood firm against naked aggression. We made our own minds up and did what we thought was right. Clearly our paths had diverged, we had forged a different nation with a different culture and different goals.
We escaped occupation, because we had help from people all over the world joining this country's armed services.
Also, Hitler, fortunately for us was an incompetent strategist in military operations, and forced his will on others, who would not have made the mistakes he made.
As to people from abroad, e.g in Europe and elsewhere, I have and continue to meet them through my work, and friendships resulting from that.
What I see through unblinkered eyes is people who have a lot in common with us and vice versa.
Unfortunately, some people can't remove those blinkers.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 03, 2016, 09:53:28 PM
We escaped occupation, because we had help from people all over the world joining this country's armed services.
Also, Hitler, fortunately for us was an incompetent strategist in military operations, and forced his will on others, who would not have made the mistakes he made.
As to people from abroad, e.g in Europe and elsewhere, I have and continue to meet them through my work, and friendships resulting from that.
What I see through unblinkered eyes is people who have a lot in common with us and vice versa.
Unfortunately, some people can't remove those blinkers.
Our Commonwealth countries in particular helped, as did European citizens both as resistance fighters and by coming here. The reason they were able to gather with us was that we are not physically joined to Europe, we had a natural barrier.
Of course ordinary people have a lot in common with us, people are people worldwide. As the world has got smaller our rulers have been unable to stop us from understanding that. Demonising others when warmongering would be unlikely to work in the future.
It is those who value and seek power who are the dangerous ones. They will lie, cheat, back-stab and plot to get that power. The question is whether they do it out of self-interest or out of concern for us, the people? That's why we need control over them, just in case they don't have our best interests at heart.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on July 03, 2016, 09:54:48 PM
I agree, most people have heard the arguments and can see the results for themselves every day of unchecked immigration. Don't go complaining next time a foreigner takes your job or beats you in a job interview.
If he beat me then I would take it that he was a better candidate for the job ... with two reservations
1) Some races have a reputation of lying. Maybe then I would be at a disadvantage. I must acknowledge that a good many ethnic Brits are also very capable of lying and twisting facts to their advantage.
2) If the interviewer / employer was of the same race as the person that beat me. Then I would wonder.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 03, 2016, 10:53:04 PM
It's clear that employers have favoured their own [perceived] races and sexes when appointing people to fill jobs, that's why we have anti-discrimination laws.
As we are all members of the human race lying must be a cultural trait. I would love to know who these reputed liars are? According to their own standards are they 'lying' or is it seen as something else in their culture?
I watched a TV programme a while back about people in danger of eviction asking their local Council for help. There was a Portuguese lady who wanted a council property because she was due to be evicted from a privately rented property. She hadn't paid her rent, which made her 'intentionally homeless'.
In such cases case the council doesn't have any obligation to help. She was very upset and accused the two council workers of racism. She said they just help 'their own kind'. It was quite surreal really.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 04, 2016, 09:51:22 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36700350
'Brexit: Legal steps seek to ensure Commons vote on Article 50'
A law firm is taking action to ensure the formal process for the UK leaving the EU is not started without an act of Parliament.
Mishcon de Reya, lawyers acting for a group of business people and academics, said it would be unlawful for a prime minister to trigger Article 50 without a full debate and vote in Parliament.
It comes after the UK voted to leave the EU in the 23 June referendum.
The government said Parliament had "a role" to find "the best way forward".
Following the referendum, David Cameron announced he would stand down as prime minister by October and would leave his replacement to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.
Once the legal process is triggered there is a two-year time limit to negotiate an exit deal from the EU. Brexit: What happens now?
Does the UK have to trigger Article 50?
Article 50 - the simplest explanation you'll find
Mishcon de Reya's clients argue that under the UK constitution the decision to trigger Article 50 rests with Parliament.
The firm has been in correspondence with government officials to seek assurances over the process. The result of the referendum is not in doubt, but we need a process that follows UK law to enact it Kasra Nouroozi, Mishcon de Reya
The BBC's legal correspondent Clive Coleman said Mishcon de Reya believed that any prime minister using executive powers to start the process would be acting unlawfully because they would be overriding the 1972 European Communities Act that enshrines UK membership of the EU.
The law firm says that constitutionally only legislation can override legislation and an act of Parliament is required to give the prime minister legal authority.
The passage of such an act could in theory provide the majority of MPs who favoured Remain the chance to block the UK leaving, our correspondent said, but he added that this seemed "constitutionally inconceivable" . 'Legal certainty' Kasra Nouroozi, a Mishcon de Reya partner, said: "We must ensure that the government follows the correct process to have legal certainty and protect the UK Constitution and the sovereignty of Parliament in these unprecedented circumstances.
"The result of the referendum is not in doubt, but we need a process that follows UK law to enact it. "The outcome of the referendum itself is not legally binding and for the current or future prime minister to invoke Article 50 without the approval of Parliament is unlawful.
"We must make sure this is done properly for the benefit of all UK citizens. Article 50 simply cannot be invoked without a full debate and vote in Parliament."
Analysis
European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker briefs the media after Britain voted to leave the bloc, in Brussels, Belgium, June 24, 2016Image copyrightREUTERS
European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has said the UK does not have "months to meditate" on activating Article 50
By Clive Coleman, BBC legal correspondent
It has come as a shock to many that the referendum result itself is not legally binding in UK law and it alone does not trigger the UK's departure from the EU.
That has to be done under the withdrawal process laid down in Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.
It's argued that a prime minister acting alone under prerogative powers lacks the constitutional authority to trigger Article 50 and an act of Parliament would need to be passed giving him or her that authority.
The passage of that act would of course provide the opportunity for MPs (a majority of whom favour Remain) to express their views on Brexit and in theory vote according to their consciences.
However, it seems constitutionally inconceivable that Parliament would fly in the face of the Leave vote secured through a national referendum and refuse to pass an act that gave the prime minister authority to begin the "divorce" process.
In other words, the referendum has changed nothing legally but everything politically.
Can the law stop Brexit?
European leaders have said the UK should not delay leaving the EU, with European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker saying the UK does not have "months to meditate" on activating Article 50, The two-year negotiation period under Article 50 can be extended only with the unanimous agreement of the remaining 27 member states.
If there is no extension, the UK ceases to be a member of the EU on the conclusion of an agreement within the two years, but in any event two years after notice has been given.
A Cabinet Office spokesman said: "As the prime minister said in the Commons, we have now got to look at all the detailed arrangements, and Parliament will clearly have a role in making sure that we find the best way forward. "It will be important to ensure in moving ahead that the interests of all parts of the United Kingdom are protected and advanced."
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 04, 2016, 11:42:51 AM
and another interesting series of analytical articles. http://ukandeu.ac.uk/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 05, 2016, 11:40:31 AM
The long read How remain failed: the inside story of a doomed campaign They promised it would be an easy victory. But they had no idea what was about to hit them
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 05, 2016, 12:03:25 PM
Oh, the irony...
Business | Mon Jul 4, 2016 9:02am BST Related: Business, UK Britain to hire foreign trade negotiators after Brexit, says Hammond http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-trade-idUKKCN0ZK0L6
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 05, 2016, 12:35:43 PM
The long read How remain failed: the inside story of a doomed campaign They promised it would be an easy victory. But they had no idea what was about to hit them
There in lied the trouble with the Remain campaign.
Not being aware of the true fear of immigrants by a substantial number of people, together with a very ineffective and light weight campaign which needed to show the same 'agression' as the leave campaign, and highlight the real nature of the 4 leading Brexit leaders.
Just reading about what Johnson and the lies he told as London mayor, just show the nature of the man and his B.S. in his pursuit of power. At least he got his just desserts.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 05, 2016, 12:36:22 PM
UK to slash corporation tax after Brexit blow
Monday, July 04, 2016 - 01:35
British Finance Minister George Osborne is cutting corporation tax to less than 15 percent in an attempt to offset the shock to investors of the country's decision to leave the European Union. And as Laura Frykberg reports, it comes as the face of the Brexit campaign announces he is stepping down.
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The face of Brexit, makes his exit. UKIP leader Nigel Farage says he's stepping down. Having achieved his goal of getting Britain to vote to leave the EU. (SOUNDBITE) (English) UKIP LEADER, NIGEL FARAGE, SAYING: "During the referendum campaign I said, I want my country back. What I'm saying today is I want my life back, and it begins right now." Farage says he's not a career politician. Those who are though, now have a big burden. Keeping business in Britain, without the lure of the EU single market. UK Finance Minister George Osborne has one solution, slashing coporation tax. Making Britain a competitor with its alluring neighbours. (SOUNDBITE) (English) CMC MARKETS ANALYST, MICHAEL HEWSON, SAYING: "Even if Mr. Osborne does cut corporation tax to 15 percent as is mooted, it will still be above Ireland's corporation tax of 12.5 percent. So I think Mr. Osborne needs to move on, he needs to look far longer term." Osborne appears to be consdering that too. He's reportedly thinking of increasing bank lending, maintaining financial credibility and investing more in northern England. More might be needed though. Financial data company Markit says the construction industry had its worst contraction in seven years last month ahead of the vote. The sector accounts for six percent of the economy.
The long read How remain failed: the inside story of a doomed campaign They promised it would be an easy victory. But they had no idea what was about to hit them
Cameron thought it would be a walkover and it was only in the days leading up to the vote that he realised the comments he was getting in London did not reflect the rest of England. He was sorely mistaken as was the MSM based in London.
Politicians must realise that although London is the current capital of the United Kingdom it is in no way representative of the UK population. The English people have made their choice.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 05, 2016, 01:04:51 PM
London Stock Exchange shareholders agree German deal 4 July 2016 From the section Business Share German stock exchangeImage copyrightGETTY IMAGES Shareholders in the London Stock Exchange (LSE) have voted in favour of a planned merger with its German counterpart Deutsche Boerse. The LSE chairman, Donald Brydon, thanked shareholders for their "strong support" after 98.9% backed the deal. The two stock exchanges agreed a $27bn (£20bn) merger earlier this year, but the Brexit vote has raised questions about how it should be implemented. The LSE said the deal would still deliver value to shareholders. "Whether the UK is just European or a member of the EU, the merger will create a globally competitive, industry defining market infrastructure group at the service of European industry," the company said.
Headquarters
Earlier, Mr Brydon said he was confident of "satisfactory" regulatory approval for the tie-up.
Last week, Germany's regulator said the proposed headquarters for the newly-merged company might not be in London.
"Without doubt... it is hard to imagine that the most important exchange venue in the eurozone would be steered from a headquarters outside the EU," said Felix Hufeld, Bafin's president.
"There certainly has to be an adjustment here."
Bafin does not have a veto on the deal but it is thought that Deutsche Boerse is likely to take its concerns seriously.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36698382
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 05, 2016, 01:12:55 PM
There in lied the trouble with the Remain campaign.
Not being aware of the true fear of immigrants by a substantial number of people, together with a very ineffective and light weight campaign which needed to show the same 'agression' as the leave campaign, and highlight the real nature of the 4 leading Brexit leaders.
Just reading about what Johnson and the lies he told as London mayor, just show the nature of the man and his B.S. in his pursuit of power. At least he got his just desserts.
To an extent, I can understand the "UK is full" argument, plus the reality of certain areas in towns or cities in which ghettoes have developed.
Ok.
Some also have a perception of the negative weight of some EU legislation (the "sovereignty" issue). And I actually do know a mom & pop shop forced out of business due to EU health and safety regulations which would have required a substantial investment in order to comply.
OK.
On the other hand, the media (tabloids, but not only...) have been feeding their readers with totally biased "news" for so long, that I can't help but think that it reminds me of 1930s propaganda.
A bit of a chicken and egg situation: the tabloids sustain confirmation bias to retain their revenue stream, and loyal readers have a tendency to rely on their favourite tabloid as presenting the "truth".
The whole idea of a democracy is that people have a say in expressing their opinions about the issues that they face and take part in finding solutions to them.
However, IMO, that presupposes that people make informed decisions based on an objective analysis of accurate information and the implications.
Or is democracy just a battle for numbers between brainwashed camps?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 05, 2016, 01:24:44 PM
To an extent, I can understand the "UK is full" argument, plus the reality of certain areas in towns or cities in which ghettoes have developed.
Ok.
Some also have a perception of the negative weight of some EU legislation (the "sovereignty" issue). And I actually do know a mom & pop shop forced out of business due to EU health and safety regulations which would have required a substantial investment in order to comply.
OK.
On the other hand, the media (tabloids, but not only...) have been feeding their readers with totally biased "news" for so long, that I can't help but think that it reminds me of 1930s propaganda.
A bit of a chicken and egg situation: the tabloids sustain confirmation bias to retain their revenue stream, and loyal readers have a tendency to rely on their favourite tabloid as presenting the "truth".
The whole idea of a democracy is that people have a say in expressing their opinions about the issues that they face and take part in finding solutions to them.
However, IMO, that presupposes that people make informed decisions based on an objective analysis of accurate information and the implications.
Or is democracy just a battle for numbers between brainwashed camps?
As a reference point as regards population densities.
There in lied the trouble with the Remain campaign.
Not being aware of the true fear of immigrants by a substantial number of people, together with a very ineffective and light weight campaign which needed to show the same 'agression' as the leave campaign, and highlight the real nature of the 4 leading Brexit leaders.
Just reading about what Johnson and the lies he told as London mayor, just show the nature of the man and his B.S. in his pursuit of power. At least he got his just desserts.
The Remain campaign were just as culpable.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 05, 2016, 01:44:36 PM
I heard a cute comment last week by a remain whinger who suggested that London should go independent. He obviously hadn't a baldy clue as to how the British economy works.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 05, 2016, 02:01:46 PM
I heard a cute comment last week by a remain whinger who suggested that London should go independent. He obviously hadn't a baldy clue as to how the British economy works.
Are you an expert in Economics John ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 05, 2016, 02:02:13 PM
I heard a cute comment last week by a remain whinger who suggested that London should go independent. He obviously hadn't a baldy clue as to how the British economy works.
Does anyone in the Brexit camp?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 05, 2016, 02:04:25 PM
I heard a cute comment last week by a remain whinger who suggested that London should go independent. He obviously hadn't a baldy clue as to how the British economy works.
yes the whingers think london should get different treatment than the rest of uk's citys.how ignorant &%+((£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on July 05, 2016, 10:31:07 PM
Anyone whinging whatever side they are on, its going to be a bigger problem now that the referendum has taken place and people have been given a voice, with all the promises and lies, but some of the protagonsts having scarpered leaving mayhem and power vaccumms...which proves the referendum was an ignorant move by dave cameron...his legacy will be leaving britain in chaos at best
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Brietta on July 05, 2016, 10:46:52 PM
Wales has changed its mind over Brexit and would now vote to stay in the EU, poll finds Wales voted to leave the EU by 52.5 per cent to 47.5 per cent on 23 June http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/wales-has-changed-its-mind-over-brexit-and-would-now-vote-to-stay-in-the-eu-poll-finds-a7120246.html 8)><(
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on July 05, 2016, 11:01:03 PM
Wales has changed its mind over Brexit and would now vote to stay in the EU, poll finds Wales voted to leave the EU by 52.5 per cent to 47.5 per cent on 23 June http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/wales-has-changed-its-mind-over-brexit-and-would-now-vote-to-stay-in-the-eu-poll-finds-a7120246.html 8)><(
Not surprised whenthe electorate have been decieved by those given the power to represent them and presumably talk truthsas part of their job.....too much to ask though, wonder if mps canbe sued
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on July 05, 2016, 11:39:26 PM
Camerons waiting at hellsgate methinks Theres no great in britain anymore That died with thatcher The eu are confounded with camerons childish politics He not only screwed up the uk he has screwed wth the eu His fate will be almost or more serious than blairs
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 06, 2016, 12:04:06 AM
Anyone whinging whatever side they are on, its going to be a bigger problem now that the referendum has taken place and people have been given a voice, with all the promises and lies, but some of the protagonsts having scarpered leaving mayhem and power vaccumms...which proves the referendum was an ignorant move by dave cameron...his legacy will be leaving britain in chaos at best
In a "buck stops here" sense, I'd agree, but he did try to negotiate with the EU. The problem, IMO, seems to be more about the PR campaign to get messages across to the voting public.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on July 06, 2016, 12:22:33 AM
In a "buck stops here" sense, I'd agree, but he did try to negotiate with the EU. The problem, IMO, seems to be more about the PR campaign to get messages across to the voting public.
NO no no His so called negotiations (fake and false) before the referendum have nothing to do with anything HE made promisesaboutafter the referendum,he ran away with his tail between his legs
A cowardly two faced PM But we always knew that
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 06, 2016, 08:00:15 AM
NO no no His so called negotiations (fake and false) before the referendum have nothing to do with anything HE made promisesaboutafter the referendum,he ran away with his tail between his legs
A cowardly two faced PM But we always knew that
Hopefully Cameron will go down in history as the man who took enabled us to leave the EU ......for that I would thank him
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 06, 2016, 08:37:18 AM
NO no no His so called negotiations (fake and false) before the referendum have nothing to do with anything HE made promisesaboutafter the referendum,he ran away with his tail between his legs
A cowardly two faced PM But we always knew that
You got it right.
His insecurities, a power struggle within the Tory party and fear of votes going to Ukip led to the referendum and inevitable events since.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 06, 2016, 10:52:21 AM
I have no problem with change, but it has to be strategically managed. Change management requires having a strategy in the first place... and the bunch of headless chickens (on both sides) don't even have a plan, let alone a well thought-out strategy to underpin it.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 06, 2016, 11:05:56 AM
I've yet to hear any argument from any remainer which could ever persuade me that staying in the EU was a good thing.
But then luckily I don't live or work in London.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 06, 2016, 12:46:24 PM
I've yet to hear any argument from any remainer which could ever persuade me that staying in the EU was a good thing.
But then luckily I don't live or work in London.
Anyone who owns assets by way of a property and/or stocks and shares etc are likely to see a significant decrease in their value.
Government finances are also likely to take a turn for the worse with the potential for a decrease in public services and infrastructure projects with the cost of government borrowing increasing and taxes rising.
The BoE's Financial Stability Report July 5 2016 presented by Mark Carney the bank's governor:
Mark Carney, Bank of England, Financial Stability Report July 5 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6juMxEwekU
On the plus side, if you're a heterosexual female, you get to see and hear from MC 8**8:/:
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 06, 2016, 01:38:00 PM
Anyone who owns assets by way of a property and/or stocks and shares etc are likely to see a significant decrease in their value.
Government finances are also likely to take a turn for the worse with the potential for a decrease in public services and infrastructure projects with the cost of government borrowing increasing and taxes rising.
The BoE's Financial Stability Report July 5 2016 presented by Mark Carney the bank's governor:
Mark Carney, Bank of England, Financial Stability Report July 5 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6juMxEwekU
On the plus side, if you're a heterosexual female, you get to see and hear from MC 8**8:/:
This is a short term reaction to the stock market being hammered by foreign slush funds who use the UK as a laundry. I say good riddance.
In the long term the UK is well placed to exploit all worldwide trade opportunities outside of the EU and that is what worries Merkel. If other countries see the UK begin to prosper under Brexit they will want some too. I can see Greece vote to leave very shortly.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on July 06, 2016, 01:42:14 PM
How long do you reckon before the UK starts to prosper after leaving the EU?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Angelo222 on July 06, 2016, 01:47:55 PM
It has begun. Non EU countries are already making soundings about future trade links.
Making soundings does not = prosperity. Surely even the most rabid Europhobe would have to concede that we've got a long, long way to go before we begin to feel any possible benefits of the split. Most would also admit that things are inevitably going to get a lot worse for most people before they get better (if they ever do).
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 06, 2016, 01:54:45 PM
It has begun. Non EU countries are already making soundings about future trade links.
Until the UK formally exits the EU it will not be in position to enter into any new trade agreements with anyone. Meanwhile this long period of uncertainty will imo lead to untold damage to the British economy.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on July 06, 2016, 02:06:31 PM
Until the UK formally exits the EU it will not be in position to enter into any new trade agreements with anyone. Meanwhile this long period of uncertainty will imo lead to untold damage to the British economy.
of course it will. Anyone who thinks otherwise is severely deluding themselves IMO.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on July 06, 2016, 03:24:07 PM
This is a short term reaction to the stock market being hammered by foreign slush funds who use the UK as a laundry. I say good riddance.
In the long term the UK is well placed to exploit all worldwide trade opportunities outside of the EU and that is what worries Merkel. If other countries see the UK begin to prosper under Brexit they will want some too. I can see Greece vote to leave very shortly.
If the EU fails and/or countries exit in a disorderly manner the economic consequences for the globe will potentially be catastrophic.
Deutshe bank (HQ Frankfurt) and Santander (HQ Madrid) have very recently failed US stress tests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36669886
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36723034
How much money do you think the Greek government owes to foreign banks?
I wouldn't mind betting these banks are just the tip of the iceberg with lots of toxicity hidden. Most banks interlend so if one fails it has the potential to create the domino effect. Bearing in mind the banking system is still fragile from the 2008 global financial crisis. Low interest rates and QE eased the pain but what now?
Lloyds and RBS still part owned by UK tax payers since the government bail out:
It has begun. Non EU countries are already making soundings about future trade links.
What exactly do "soundings" mean?
Non-EU trade links existed before.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 06, 2016, 09:16:27 PM
There have been worries expressed about multi-nationals who, they say, are here to gain access to EU markets. The problem with them is they get preferential treatment and if things don't suit they're off again. I've worked for two. The first one lost the outsourcing contract we were working on to another multi-national who moved the operation to Portugal. We trained the Portuguese staff here for three months and they were a bit taken aback to find they would be doing a busy, demanding and difficult job for 1/3 of the wage we received. They subsequently lost the jobs to India.
If more UK companies were able to start up with government help at least the jobs created would be relatively safer. Attracting molti-nationals isn't good for workers because there's no job security.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 06, 2016, 09:29:48 PM
There have been worries expressed about multi-nationals who, they say, are here to gain access to EU markets. The problem with them is they get preferential treatment and if things don't suit they're off again. I've worked for two. The first one lost the outsourcing contract we were working on to another multi-national who moved the operation to Portugal. We trained the Portuguese staff here for three months and they were a bit taken aback to find they would be doing a busy, demanding and difficult job for 1/3 of the wage we received. They subsequently lost the jobs to India.
If more UK companies were able to start up with government help at least the jobs created would be relatively safer. Attracting molti-nationals isn't good for workers because there's no job security.
Absolutely correct
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on July 06, 2016, 10:37:58 PM
Making soundings does not = prosperity. Surely even the most rabid Europhobe would have to concede that we've got a long, long way to go before we begin to feel any possible benefits of the split. Most would also admit that things are inevitably going to get a lot worse for most people before they get better (if they ever do).
It will get worse for those who have been milking the EU project, and so it should be.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on July 06, 2016, 11:55:55 PM
They exist now under tariffs. Post Brexit there will be no customs tariffs so worldwide trade with the UK can only increase significantly. The UK economy is not a basket case as some would have us believe, the country is very capable of going it alone and the sooner the better imo.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 07, 2016, 07:19:02 AM
They exist now under tariffs. Post Brexit there will be no customs tariffs so worldwide trade with the UK can only increase significantly. The UK economy is not a basket case as some would have us believe, the country is very capable of going it alone and the sooner the better imo.
Hmmm. I'm not so sure about that, John. What about WTO tariffs?
... In the absence of a deal between the UK and the EU, the UK would then be required to follow World Trade Organisation rules on tariffs. Who does the UK trade with? In 90 seconds Play! 01:36 What would that mean?
The UK would pay tariffs on goods and services it exported into the EU, but since the UK would pay ‘most favoured nation’ rates, that would prohibit either side imposing punitive duties and sparking a trade war.
These WTO tariffs range from 32 per cent on wine, to 4.1 per cent on liquefied natural gas, with items like cars (9.8 per cent) and wheat products (12.8 per cent) somewhere in between.
John Springford, an economist with the Centre for European Reform, the total cost of those tariffs would be large, ranging from a 2.2 per cent of GDP (£40 billion) to 9 per cent.
Business for Britain, which campaigns for exit, estimates that at worst, tariffs would cost British exporters just £7.4 billion a year and says the UK would save enough on EU membership fees to be able to compensate exporters for that.
Damian Chalmers, professor of European Union law at the London School of Economics, says the bigger threat to the UK exports would not be from WTO tariffs, but other EU states imposing new regulations and other “non-tariff barriers” to keep UK services out.
What about UK striking trade deals with other big economies?
This is eminently possible, but is likely to take time. Having ceded responsibility for trade policy to the EU, the UK civil service may lack the capacity to strike major trade deals quickly.
It is also possible, as David Cameron argues, that other countries will want to see what terms the UK receives in Europe before committing to their own deal, potentially leading to further delays.
A larger question will be about the UK’s bargaining power with countries whose domestic politics push them towards protectionism, not free trade. Professor Chalmers warns that striking trade deals with major economies such as the US, China and India would be “tough” for Britain.
Brexit campaigners note that the EU has so far failed to secure such free trade deals, and suggest the UK would have a better chance negotiating in its own right with politicians in Washington, Beijing and New Delhi.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 07, 2016, 07:21:42 AM
Business for Britain, which campaigns for exit, estimates that at worst, tariffs would cost British exporters just £7.4 billion a year and says the UK would save enough on EU membership fees to be able to compensate exporters for that.
But, but, but according to the Boris Bus Blunder, the savings were supposed to go to the NHS. &%+((£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 07, 2016, 11:55:18 AM
"Subsequently, CNBC reported that some of the EFTA States said that they are open to letting the UK re-join EFTA (which the UK helped to establish over 50 years ago) and that Swiss President Johann Schneider-Amman believes EFTA would be strengthened should the UK re-join the association."
Erm, no doubt. Seemingly, Switzerland is in a bit of a mess at the moment.
Nov 2015:
Whatever you do, don't become Switzerland, Swiss academics tell UK
Since voting to introduce quotas for EU citizens, Switzerland has been cut off from academic funding and international talent
July 2016: EU tells Swiss no single market access if no free movement of citizens
Patrick Wintour Diplomatic editor
Sunday 3 July 2016 11.49 BST Swiss-EU talks reveal determination of EU to make no concessions to UK over Brexit terms https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/03/eu-swiss-single-market-access-no-free-movement-citizens
And, from what I've been reading, Switzerland does pay (indirectly) into the EU budget via some development fund or other. I'll add the link when I find it again.
For anyone with mild insomnia... It's from 2012, but it's only 12 pages.
Outsiders on the inside Swiss and Norwegian lessons for the UK By David Buchan
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 07, 2016, 12:08:26 PM
On the other side of the debate, I don't have a problem with some kind of immigration quota system. Nor do I have a problem with some kind of period during which some types of benefits are restricted.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on July 07, 2016, 12:14:59 PM
On the other side of the debate, I don't have a problem with some kind of immigration quota system. Nor do I have a problem with some kind of period during which some types of benefits are restricted.
I fear Theresa May will never be able to deliver it. The UK people have voted for something which neither the Tories nor Labour are either willing or capable of enacting. We will end up with compromise and a system which is unfit for purpose.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 07, 2016, 12:20:46 PM
I fear Theresa May will never be able to deliver it. The UK people have voted for something which neither the Tories nor Labour are either willing or capable of enacting. We will end up with compromise and a system which is unfit for purpose.
Whatever that compromise turns out to be, there is the issue of time-scale versus scope to be negotiated by headless chickens...
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 07, 2016, 12:24:42 PM
I fear Theresa May will never be able to deliver it. The UK people have voted for something which neither the Tories nor Labour are either willing or capable of enacting. We will end up with compromise and a system which is unfit for purpose.
Who would, in your opinion, John?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on July 07, 2016, 01:26:28 PM
Only what Cameron negotiated in an attempt to remain.
That's what I'm looking for... but not much time today.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 07, 2016, 02:31:19 PM
Mrs Leadsom, whose City career has come under some scrutiny after it claims she exaggerated her CV, said she would make the continuation of tariff-free trade with the EU a priority.
She said the new status free of the EU would mean the UK could forge new trade agreements with fast-growing economies around the world.
Speaking on the day Conservative Party members will vote to eliminate one of the last three candidates from the race to be Prime Minister, Mrs Leadsom also said the weak pound meant we might import less but would buy more UK goods.
Hmmm. Perhaps she could give figures on the current situation concerning UK businesses (both large and small ones) outsourcing components, services or manufacturing to the EU for products ultimately sold as "UK goods"?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on July 07, 2016, 02:46:32 PM
That's what I'm looking for... but not much time today.
Leaders of the other 27 member nations agreed to a deal that will see:
A seven-year term for the emergency brake to restrict EU migrants in the UK claiming in-work benefits.
Child benefit payments indexed to the cost of living for children living outside the UK for all new arrivals to the UK, extending to all workers from 1 January 2020.
Any single non-eurozone country able to force a debate among EU leaders about ‘problem’ eurozone laws – though they will not have a veto.
An unequivocal opt-out stating that EU treaty “references to ever-closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom”
Leaders of the other 27 member nations agreed to a deal that will see:
A seven-year term for the emergency brake to restrict EU migrants in the UK claiming in-work benefits.
Child benefit payments indexed to the cost of living for children living outside the UK for all new arrivals to the UK, extending to all workers from 1 January 2020.
Any single non-eurozone country able to force a debate among EU leaders about ‘problem’ eurozone laws – though they will not have a veto.
An unequivocal opt-out stating that EU treaty “references to ever-closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom”
- Old, but there are also the negotiations dating to way back re the Euro and Schengen opt-outs, and the rebate (which Brexiters conveniently tend to forget in their calculations).
- Re immigration, yes, I can see an argument for some kind of management system.
- Opting out of Schengen means that there is greater control on the whole over who comes in and out (and spot checks do happen in Schengendom, making it unwise to travel without some form of ID).
- I haven't yet read much about what is likely to happen to EAWs and more generally Europol. There will no doubt be some form of ongoing cooperation, but it may mean going back to more long-winded bureaucracy (not that the system was working perfectly in the first place).
Lots of unknowns...
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 08, 2016, 12:19:36 AM
Leaders of the other 27 member nations agreed to a deal that will see:
A seven-year term for the emergency brake to restrict EU migrants in the UK claiming in-work benefits.
Child benefit payments indexed to the cost of living for children living outside the UK for all new arrivals to the UK, extending to all workers from 1 January 2020.
Any single non-eurozone country able to force a debate among EU leaders about ‘problem’ eurozone laws – though they will not have a veto.
An unequivocal opt-out stating that EU treaty “references to ever-closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom”
Perhaps the EU is not the panacea it claims to be?
Edit: Dead link corrected.
'the financial sector in the country has roughly €300 billion of 'bad' debt'
'Government debt in Italy now stands at almost 140% of GDP, second only to Greece in eurozone in gross terms.'
.....
Yup, the failing eurozone economy is one of the reasons I voted leave, not simply because I don't like migrants.
If we remain tied to these corrupt failing countries, it's inevitable that we will have to help bail them out &/or be dragged down with them.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on July 08, 2016, 03:21:44 PM
Did you know that there are specific measures in place to support the development of the most remote regions of the European Union, known as the outermost regions: Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Réunion, Martinique, Mayotte and Saint-Martin (France), the Azores and Madeira (Portugal), and the Canary Islands (Spain). The purpose of this support is to compensate for the constraints arising from the geographical remoteness of these regions.
The Balkan states of Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia and Herzegovina are all now waiting to join the EU. With the EU budget soon to be cut by some £160 million a week following Brexit, who will then pick up the tab?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 08, 2016, 07:09:50 PM
Did you know that there are specific measures in place to support the development of the most remote regions of the European Union, known as the outermost regions: Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Réunion, Martinique, Mayotte and Saint-Martin (France), the Azores and Madeira (Portugal), and the Canary Islands (Spain). The purpose of this support is to compensate for the constraints arising from the geographical remoteness of these regions.
The Balkan states of Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia and Herzegovina are all now waiting to join the EU. With the EU budget soon to be cut by some £160 million a week following Brexit, who will then pick up the tab?
How is the UK going to pick up the tab once out? Assuming that the UK continues to exist...
Brexit vote has United Kingdom’s territories in uproar — with at least one calling for an exit of its own June 28, 20165:22pm
Hundreds in Scotland protest Brexit Jamie Seidel, agenciesNews Corp Australia Network
THE fallout of the Brexit vote is reverberating through what remains of the once-great British Empire. Scotland and Northern Ireland are threatening to go it alone, and at least one far-flung territory is clambering for an exit of its own — from the UK.
There seems no end to the political and economic turmoil of last week’s vote to leave the European Union.
It’s all because the state of the union within the United Kingdom itself is not all that strong.
And it’s no surprise.
In the days before the vote, former Conservative Party foreign secretary Lord Hague told a foreign affairs think-tank that the Brexit vote could lead to the ‘disintegration’ of the whole United Kingdom.
The unhappiness with the result in Scotland, Northern Ireland and many overseas territories is adding to the sense that the Brexit vote may over time lead to the breakup of the United Kingdom. A young couple painted as EU flags protest outside Downing Street against the United Kingdom's decision to leave the EU following the referendum on June 24. Picture: Getty
A young couple painted as EU flags protest outside Downing Street against the United Kingdom's decision to leave the EU following the referendum on June 24. Picture: GettySource:Getty Images
Northern Ireland’s Sinn Fein party has renewed its calls for a split. And the premier of one territory, The Turks and Caicos Islands, has already called for a vote on the future of its membership.
Public opinion in Scotland and Northern Ireland differed greatly from those in England and Wales. Voters overwhelmingly favoured remaining with the EU.
Scotland and Northern Ireland expressed deep concern at losing the trade benefits that come with EU membership. And Northern Ireland fears the re-establishment of security checkpoints along its border with EU member Ireland.
Then there’s the wait for the trickle-down benefits of economic recovery after the 2012 Global Financial Crisis. Widespread public cynicism is being directed at British members of parliament and corporate leaders. Such a loss of faith comes after millions of British workers were left behind in the lacklustre recovery. Average pay in the UK remains 7 per cent below 2008 levels when adjusted for inflation.
“The (Brexit) result could be considerable financial and personal hardship for many people fiercely loyal to the UK,” Lord Hague told the Chatham House assembly.
“How ironic it would be if people thought there was something patriotic or particularly pro-British about leaving the EU only to discover that it led to the disintegration of our country and dealt a permanent blow to overseas territories who look to us for leadership and protection.”
Here’s a summary of reaction to the Brexit vote from among the United Kingdom’s membership: Postcards featuring the World War II British slogan "Keep Calm and Carry On" outside a newsagent in London. Picture: AFP
Postcards featuring the World War II British slogan "Keep Calm and Carry On" outside a newsagent in London. Picture: AFPSource:AFP
OVERSEAS TERRITORIES & CROWN DEPENDENCIES
Scattered across the four corners of the planet, the 14 territories that are the remnants of Britain’s once-great empire are just as split over the benefits and consequences of the Brexit decision as the rest of the union.
The consequences, however, appear more dire.
One small island territory has already called for its own ‘Brexit’ from the United Kingdom, while others are openly worried about the loss of economic ties and development funding from the EU.
The territories have their own association and minister to lobby for their diverse interests in parliament.
Unsurprisingly, they’re divided.
Conservative government minister and ‘Vote Leave’ campaigner James Duddridge argues his constituents would benefit from Brexit as Britain would have a renewed focus on its traditional Commonwealth and what he described as the ‘English-speaking world’.
“An independent Britain can spend more time developing our historic ties rather than be shackled by the regulation and political infrastructure that is a federal union,” he said.
But the United Kingdom Overseas Territories Association (UKOTA) argues many territories had benefited from fresh attention under the EU, and this was now at risk.
The Cayman Islands, for example, recently received a new weather radar system under the EU Development Fund after failing to secure money from London. The Falkland Islands now exports most of its produce to the European single market. And, with travel restrictions likely to be reimposed, Gibraltar will once again have to close its gates to Spain.
Other territories, including the Isle of Man, must now seek to negotiate new agreements to replace the European Union’s free trade in manufactured and agricultural products. Many territories are dependent on a small number of niche industries, making them especially vulnerable to such changes in regulation. A pro-Scottish independence sticker is pictured on the side of a telephone box in Edinburgh, Scotland. Picture: AFP
A pro-Scottish independence sticker is pictured on the side of a telephone box in Edinburgh, Scotland. Picture: AFPSource:AFP
A recent report titled The United Kingdom Overseas Territories and the European Union: Benefits and Prospects, found Bermuda in particular seemed likely to suffer as the island had become a major European insurance tax haven to the tune of 21.7 billion euros annually.
Then there’s the issue of the very sovereignty of several territories.
“The guaranteed solidarity of 28 nations — including those with strong historic links to Latin America — over British sovereignty over the Falkland Islands would be lost,” Lord Hague warned in reference to the South Atlantic islands over which a bloody war was fought in 1982.
Spain’s ambitions over Gibraltar have also once again surged to the fore: Its government has already expressed its desire to explore ‘new possibilities’ for shared sovereignty over the 30,000 inhabitants of the rock at the junction of the Mediterranean and Atlantic. Spain’s acting Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo said at the weekend: “I hope the formula of co-sovereignty — to be clear, the Spanish flag on the Rock — is much closer than before.”
The Turks and Caicos Islands Premier has taken the split one step further, calling for a referendum in his group of outcrops in the Caribbean Sea to determine its own future:
“I hereby call on the British Government and the Turks and Caicos Government to hold a referendum in the Turks and Caicos Islands as a matter of urgency to determine whether we should remain a British colony, especially in the light of losing all of the benefits that came with being associated with the EU. Self-determination is critically important and the TCI should have it too,” he said in a press statement issued after the vote last week. A Scottish Saltire flies between a Union flag and a European Union flag in front of the Scottish Parliament building in Edinburgh. Picture: AFP
A Scottish Saltire flies between a Union flag and a European Union flag in front of the Scottish Parliament building in Edinburgh. Picture: AFPSource:AFP
SCOTLAND
Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has indicated the Brexit result will likely trigger another referendum on independence.
Scotland itself voted overwhelmingly (62 per cent) to remain in the EU.
Scotland’s bitterly fought independence referendum in 2014 ended with voters deciding to remain in Britain, but analysts believe Britain’s withdrawal from the EU may strengthen the movement.
The First Minister argues another independence vote is justified because the United Kingdom under which the previous vote was rejected in 2014 “does not exist anymore”.
Ms Sturgeon said she would “consider” advising the Scottish Parliament to try to use its power to prevent Britain from actually leaving the EU. She said Scottish politicians might be able to derail the move by withholding “legislative consent” for a British exit, or Brexit.
Ms Sturgeon also said she believes Scotland’s approval is required for the move but admitted the British government would likely take “a very different view.”
“If the Scottish Parliament was judging this on the basis of what’s right for Scotland, then the option of saying ‘We’re not going to vote for something that is against Scotland’s interests,’ of course, that is on the table,” she said. People walk over Westminster Bridge wrapped in Union flags, towards the Queen Elizabeth Tower and Big Ben. Wales voted in favour of leaving the European Union. Picture: AFP
People walk over Westminster Bridge wrapped in Union flags, towards the Queen Elizabeth Tower and Big Ben. Wales voted in favour of leaving the European Union. Picture: AFPSource:AFP
WALES
While the majority of Wales’ voters voted in favour of the “Leave” campaign, its parliament is now trying to make sense of what this means.
First Minister Carwyn Jones, who campaigned for the UK to remain in the EU, is now actively canvassing key ‘Leave’ figures such as potential future prime minister Boris Johnson to figure out what comes next.
“One of the issues that we found is that people in Wales are very unhappy with the UK government, and they felt that this vote was a way of getting their own back on the UK government,” he told local media at the weekend.
But Mr Jones highlighted the deepening divide within the British union had not yet reached a tipping point among his constituents. Scotland can fund itself as an independent nation as it has oil reserves, he said. Wales cannot.
“The UK really is made up of four nations that never really became one. I mean, we in Wales see ourselves as a nation. We’re not English. We’re far from it. Yeah, we’re part of the UK. We’ve benefited from being members of the UK. So there’s not really the appetite in Wales at the moment to become an independent country. Scotland is in a different place.”
Instead, the key concern is uncertainty.
“Now, of course, you know, there will be trade within countries in Europe,” he said. “But it’s the terms of trade that are important. If we find, for example, there’s a 10 per cent tariff on what we export into the European Union, that’s bad for us because half of what we export is exported to the EU.”
Mr Jones has sought reassurance from key ‘Leave’ campaign figures that a promised 500 million pound grant to support Welsh farming during the changeover was secure. Irish themed novelty goods in a souvenir store in Buncrana, Ireland, not far from the border with Northern Ireland. Picture: AFP
Irish themed novelty goods in a souvenir store in Buncrana, Ireland, not far from the border with Northern Ireland. Picture: AFPSource:AFP
NORTHERN IRELAND
The Sinn Fein party of Northern Ireland has seized upon its ‘Remain’ vote as a trigger for another referendum — exiting the United Kingdom and merging with the Republic of Ireland.
But Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness said his first priority is forging “special arrangements” to enable Northern Ireland to maintain its EU ties — despite the Brexit vote.
Some ‘Leave’ opponents have also talked of trying to use Northern Ireland’s Assembly in conjunction with that of Scotland’s to try to block Britain’s departure.
Northern Ireland Secretary Theresa Villiers, Prime Minister David Cameron’s lead official in Belfast, played down the suggestion that the Scottish Parliament or the Northern Ireland Assembly had the standing to prevent a British departure from the EU.
She said decision-making power resides solely in the British Parliament, which is expected to abide by the results of the referendum, which showed 52 per cent of British voters wanted out.
“In the weeks and months ahead, we will be working with both the Scottish government and the Northern Ireland executive on all these matters,” she told BBC. “But ultimately it is (the British) Parliament’s decision.” http://www.news.com.au/world/brexit-vote-has-united-kingdoms-territories-in-uproar--with-at-least-one-calling-for-an-exit-of-its-own/news-story/afd26c2a59acc68f22fac3b3da0583f4
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 08, 2016, 07:13:36 PM
How does the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Cornwall sound?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 08, 2016, 07:43:51 PM
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 08, 2016, 08:21:51 PM
On the brighter side, I suppose...
Britain To Send Troops To Eastern Europe
The United States, Germany and Canada will make a similar commitment despite likely objections from Moscow. http://news.sky.com/story/britain-to-send-troops-to-eastern-europe-10495409
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 08, 2016, 08:46:27 PM
A bit of a paradox.... and it could all change in a flash:
Brexit causes resurgence in pro-EU leanings across continent
Establishment parties in Germany and the Netherlands enjoy surprising gains while the far-right suffers in the polls
Interesting piece (just before the referendum) from NYT:
Who Is to Blame for Brexit’s Appeal? British Newspapers
By MARTIN FLETCHERJUNE 21, 2016 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/22/opinion/who-is-to-blame-for-brexits-appeal-british-newspapers.html?_r=0
But Boris started it! @)(++(*
What a bombshell the UK electorate lobbed into the political people's cozy little world. @)(++(*
Apparently the Camerons are no longer speaking to the Goves and Boris Johnson's sister has had her 'kitchen suppers' shunned because of his pro-leave stance. Doesn't your heart bleed? Who would have thought giving the people their say would have such devastating consequences for those who see themselves as our natural leaders? @)(++(* http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/world/europe/britain-brexit-elite-politics.html
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 09, 2016, 12:40:05 PM
What a bombshell the UK electorate lobbed into the political people's cozy little world. @)(++(*
Apparently the Camerons are no longer speaking to the Goves and Boris Johnson's sister has had her 'kitchen suppers' shunned because of his pro-leave stance. Doesn't your heart bleed? Who would have thought giving the people their say would have such devastating consequences for those who see themselves as our natural leaders? @)(++(* http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/world/europe/britain-brexit-elite-politics.html
I don't see how antics worthy of popular reality TV shows are going to lead the UK (let alone the knock-on effects for others with a potential boomerang effect) to some amazingly new future full of opportunities are of sound judgement... Particularly, when no one - of either persuasion - seems to have even considered - let alone know how to deal with - the aftermath.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 09, 2016, 01:02:17 PM
I find it somewhat extraordinary that many of the leading figures campaigning for Brexit are leaving others to somehow deal with the mess...
It's no use blaming politicians. The ones to blame are the apathetic electorate who left these buffoons [in all parties and on both sides] to govern the country on their behalf.
Hopefully the UK electorate will heed this wake-up call and take more interest in politics in the future. Voting every few years isn't enough, people have to watch their elected representatives and remind them who they represent. They have to call them to account if they get overconfident.
A lot of our politicians have shown their characters quite clearly; when the going got tough few of them proved tough enough to rise to the challenge.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 09, 2016, 01:51:24 PM
Last night in the early hours on LBC radio, the host was asking Brexiters why they voted Leave.
Some of the answers were beyond description.
It's amazing really that these uneducated slobs who can hardly string two words together managed to wake up, pay attention and grab an opportunity to have their say. They managed at the same time to throw their 'betters' [we know they're better because they have good jobs and degrees] into complete disarray. Who'd'v thunk it?
Another viewpoint;
Brexit voters are not thick, not racist: just poor http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/brexit-voters-are-not-thick-not-racist-just-poor/
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on July 09, 2016, 04:18:19 PM
It's amazing really that these uneducated slobs who can hardly string two words together managed to wake up, pay attention and grab an opportunity to have their say. They managed at the same time to throw their 'betters' [we know they're better because they have good jobs and degrees] into complete disarray. Who'd'v thunk it?
Another viewpoint;
Brexit voters are not thick, not racist: just poor http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/brexit-voters-are-not-thick-not-racist-just-poor/
So what did all the thick racists vote for? Remaining??
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 09, 2016, 04:35:22 PM
It's amazing really that these uneducated slobs who can hardly string two words together managed to wake up, pay attention and grab an opportunity to have their say. They managed at the same time to throw their 'betters' [we know they're better because they have good jobs and degrees] into complete disarray. Who'd'v thunk it?
Another viewpoint;
Brexit voters are not thick, not racist: just poor http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/brexit-voters-are-not-thick-not-racist-just-poor/
What do the "screw you" voters find to be a rational and sustainable way forward?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 09, 2016, 05:49:14 PM
What do the "screw you" voters find to be a rational and sustainable way forward?
The people the article was about live difficult lives. They have limited incomes which they would struggle to improve. Those who have jobs are doing hard jobs which give little job satisfaction. Many have housing problems such as private landlords who delay or refuse repairs or council houses which are unsuitable because the best stock has been sold off. They're bombarded with adverts for things they can't really afford. Life's a daily struggle and an unexpected bill can cause chaos. In addition they have been attacked by having their benefits squeezed, making life even more difficult.
In their shoes would you be sitting down and working out a rational and sustainable way forward? I very much doubt it.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 09, 2016, 10:15:18 PM
The people the article was about live difficult lives. They have limited incomes which they would struggle to improve. Those who have jobs are doing hard jobs which give little job satisfaction. Many have housing problems such as private landlords who delay or refuse repairs or council houses which are unsuitable because the best stock has been sold off. They're bombarded with adverts for things they can't really afford. Life's a daily struggle and an unexpected bill can cause chaos. In addition they have been attacked by having their benefits squeezed, making life even more difficult.
In their shoes would you be sitting down and working out a rational and sustainable way forward? I very much doubt it.
You said:
"In their shoes would you be sitting down and working out a rational and sustainable way forward? I very much doubt it."
I don't know.
These are still members of the voting public who, in theory, are meant to weigh up the pros and cons of the issues involved in the referendum.
if they are too tired to do so, or aren't capable of doing so, then they may well rely on their usual partisan media, which, on many topics, was peddling - at best - half-truths.
People voted for whatever they perceived to be the promise of a better future.
And then the orchestrators (on both sides) all waved goodbye.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2016, 11:22:19 PM
"In their shoes would you be sitting down and working out a rational and sustainable way forward? I very much doubt it."
I don't know.
These are still members of the voting public who, in theory, are meant to weigh up the [ censored word ] and cons of the issues involved in the referendum.
if they are too tired to do so, or aren't capable of doing so, then they may well rely on their usual partisan media, which, on many topics, was peddling - at best - half-truths.
People voted for whatever they perceived to be the promise of a better future.
And then the orchestrators (on both sides) all waved goodbye.
I think most people did their best, but very few had the time or motivation to conduct in-depth research on the issue. As you say, they read the papers, listened to a few 'experts', picked a side and voted. That applies to all the voters, not just the 'leavers'.
The government probably made a big mistake asking it's apathetic and poorly informed electorate to make a decision but the fact remains that it did.
If that decision is rejected or over-ruled it should be clear to all that democracy in Britain is a sham.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2016, 07:31:05 PM
David Cameron went to watch Andy Murray win Wimbledon this afternoon. Murray pointed him out appreciatively and the crowd booed. How the mighty are fallen.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 10, 2016, 07:57:05 PM
The second most popular question on google after the referendum...
What is the EU ?
Most popular question...
What happens if we leave the EU ?
%&5%£ %&5%£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 10, 2016, 08:38:32 PM
David Cameron went to watch Andy Murray win Wimbledon this afternoon. Murray pointed him out appreciatively and the crowd booed. How the mighty are fallen.
Was he being booed by the apathetic and poorly informed public
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2016, 09:46:14 PM
As a keen advocate of leaving the EU, shouldn't you be grateful to Mr Cameron?
I'm a keen advocate of democracy. I have made a case for leaving in an attempt to provoke someone into making a case for staying. It didn't work, though, I still haven't seen any factual case for remaining, just vague references to economics.
I don't think anyone has reason to be grateful to him. He agreed to hold a referendum out of fear of Farage. When the people voted against his recommendations he ran away instead of doing his duty.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 11, 2016, 09:05:42 AM
I'm a keen advocate of democracy. I have made a case for leaving in an attempt to provoke someone into making a case for staying. It didn't work, though, I still haven't seen any factual case for remaining, just vague references to economics.
I don't think anyone has reason to be grateful to him. He agreed to hold a referendum out of fear of Farage. When the people voted against his recommendations he ran away instead of doing his duty.
Don't you find economics to be a major consideration?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 11, 2016, 09:14:03 AM
Food for thought?
Brexit voters missed the lesson of 1776
(...)
Writing about the Arab Spring in the New York Times in 2013, political scientist Sheri Berman summed up the conventional view: “Establishing a stable democracy is a two-stage process. First you get rid of the old regime; then you build a durable democratic replacement.”
(...)
The lesson from 1776 could not be clearer. Establishing a stable political regime is a two-stage process. First you figure out what shape you want your new regime to have; only then do you get rid of the old one. Wake up, world.
Writing about the Arab Spring in the New York Times in 2013, political scientist Sheri Berman summed up the conventional view: “Establishing a stable democracy is a two-stage process. First you get rid of the old regime; then you build a durable democratic replacement.”
(...)
The lesson from 1776 could not be clearer. Establishing a stable political regime is a two-stage process. First you figure out what shape you want your new regime to have; only then do you get rid of the old one. Wake up, world.
I'm a keen advocate of democracy. I have made a case for leaving in an attempt to provoke someone into making a case for staying. It didn't work, though, I still haven't seen any factual case for remaining, just vague references to economics.
I don't think anyone has reason to be grateful to him. He agreed to hold a referendum out of fear of Farage. When the people voted against his recommendations he ran away instead of doing his duty.
So you voted Remain and are now playing Devil's Advocate after the event, is that right?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 11, 2016, 10:11:05 AM
Don't you find economics to be a major consideration?
So tell me how we gain economically from EU membership? I would particularly like to know who gains what and how. I would like to know how much of our 'export' figure actually consists of exports outside of the EU through European ports. I would like to know how much of the figure is due to inter-company transactions.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 11, 2016, 10:14:07 AM
So tell me how we gain economically from EU membership? I would particularly like to know who gains what and how. I would like to know how much of our 'export' figure actually consists of exports outside of the EU through European ports. I would like to know how much of the figure is due to inter-company transactions.
Surely you can do that yourself, and research it yourself online.
You don't require a degree in Economics to do that.
Bearing in mind up to recently we had the 5 th largest economy in the world, within the EU.
I did hear Osbourne claim some time ago we could be the largest Economy in the world by 2030. I presume he said that on April the 1 st. His degree I believe was in History.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 11, 2016, 10:32:32 AM
Surely you can do that yourself, and research it yourself online.
You don't require a degree in Economics to do that.
Bearing in mind up to recently we had the 5 th largest economy in the world, within the EU.
I did hear Osbourne claim some time ago we could be the largest Economy in the world by 2030. I presume he said that on April the 1 st. His degree I believe was in History.
Neither do those who insist we're better off in the EU, but I haven't seen anything which supports that position.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on July 11, 2016, 10:39:39 AM
We have secret ballots so voters have privacy. If I choose not to share my voting habits that's my democratic right and not bizarre at all. I can't think of any reason why I should be afraid, sorry.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 11, 2016, 11:16:42 AM
So tell me how we gain economically from EU membership? I would particularly like to know who gains what and how. I would like to know how much of our 'export' figure actually consists of exports outside of the EU through European ports. I would like to know how much of the figure is due to inter-company transactions.
Valid questions, but that's part of the issue, though, isn't it?
How many people had thoroughly investigated the issues and potential consequences prior to voting in one direction or the other?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on July 11, 2016, 11:17:49 AM
We have secret ballots so voters have privacy. If I choose not to share my voting habits that's my democratic right and not bizarre at all. I can't think of any reason why I should be afraid, sorry.
You are anonymous on this forum, so your privacy is not compromised by revealing which way you voted. You've already told us you didn't vote leave, so you either voted remain or didn't vote at all. If you didn't vote at all then that means you chose not to take part in the democratic process, which seeing as how you're a big fan of democracy seems unlikely. That leads me to conclude that either you voted to remain or you weren't telling the truth earlier. I guess we shall never know!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on July 11, 2016, 01:05:13 PM
Valid questions, but that's part of the issue, though, isn't it?
How many people had thoroughly investigated the issues and potential consequences prior to voting in one direction or the other?
I think an issue with the campaigns was that the voting public was being fed assertions, by both sides, without anything solid to back those assertions up.
It reminded me very much of WMD and why it was supposedly essential to go to war in Iraq.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 11, 2016, 01:10:23 PM
I think an issue with the campaigns was that the voting public was being fed assertions, by both sides, without anything solid to back those assertions up.
It reminded me very much of WMD and why it was supposedly essential to go to war in Iraq.
It's how the world works now. Soundbites, spin, good tailoring and grooming have replaced solid debate undertaken by knowledgeable people based on facts.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: misty on July 11, 2016, 01:25:47 PM
It's how the world works now. Soundbites, spin, good tailoring and grooming have replaced solid debate undertaken by knowledgeable people based on facts.
Aren't the people we elected to represent us, as per our democratic society, supposed to be knowledgeable people & competent enough to provide the electorate with fact-based arguments for BrExit/Remain? So many of the electorate went to the ballot box & voted with their hearts & not their heads because they were deprived of proper facts.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 11, 2016, 01:29:28 PM
Valid questions, but that's part of the issue, though, isn't it?
How many people had thoroughly investigated the issues and potential consequences prior to voting in one direction or the other?
More than you would want to accept. The majority have voted and I believe not for selfish reason, mostly based on communties and the impact of mass immigration and the impact on the economics of our country. Wave bye bye to 3 billion a year going to Turkey...and hello to Greece and Italy getting SFA for being in a bad state oh lets read about this...
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 12, 2016, 09:27:50 AM
Britain’s vote to leave the EU has unleashed a wave of discrimination against UK researchers, with elite universities in the country coming under pressure to abandon collaborations with European partners.
In a confidential survey of the UK’s Russell Group universities, the Guardian found cases of British academics being asked to leave EU-funded projects or to step down from leadership roles because they are considered a financial liability.
In one case, an EU project officer recommended that a lead investigator drop all UK partners from a consortium because Britain’s share of funding could not be guaranteed. The note implied that if UK organisations remained on the project, which is due to start in January 2017, the contract signing would be delayed until Britain had agreed a fresh deal with Europe.
The backlash against UK researchers began immediately after the June referendum when the failure to plan for a post-Brexit Britain cast serious doubts over the chances of British organisations winning future EU funding. British researchers receive about £1bn a year from EU finding programmes such as Horizon 2020, but access to the money must be completely renegotiated under Brexit.
The 24 universities in the Russell Group are regarded as Britain’s elite institutions. With Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, University College London and Imperial College among their number, they are renowned for world-class research and academic excellence.
One leading university said anecdotal evidence that UK applicants were being dropped from EU bids came almost straight after the vote. Since then they had witnessed “a substantial increase in definitive evidence that EU projects are reluctant to be in collaboration with UK partners, and that potentially all new funding opportunities from Horizon 2020 are closing”.
Incidents reported by the universities suggest that researchers across the natural sciences, the engineering disciplines and social sciences are all affected. At least two social science collaborations with Dutch universities have been told UK partners are unwelcome, one Russell Group university said in the survey.
Speaking at Oxford’s Wolfson College last Friday, the university’s chancellor, Chris Patten, said Oxford received perhaps more research income than any European university, with about 40% coming from government. “Our research income will of course fall significantly after we have left the EU unless a Brexit government guarantees to cover the shortfall,” Lord Patten said.
The uncertainty over future funding for projects stands to harm research in other ways, the survey suggests. A number of institutions that responded said some researchers were reluctant to carry on with bids for EU funds because of the financial unknowns, while others did not want to be the weak link in a consortium. One university said it had serious concerns about its ability to recruit research fellows for current projects.
Some Russell Group universities declined to comment for the survey, and not all of those which did knew of any discrimination against their researchers. Though one university said concerns over the impact of the referendum had become a part of almost every conversation about research, their academics were continuing with funding applications as usual.
A week after the referendum, science minister Jo Johnson told academics and industry figures he had raised concerns over potential discrimination against UK researchers with the EU science commissioner, Carlos Moedas. Johnson has asked a team at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to gather evidence for discrimination and urged organisations to report any incidents. Until the UK left the EU, he said the situation was “business as usual”.
Others see it differently. Joe Gorman, a senior scientist at Sintef, Norway’s leading research institute, said he believed UK industry and universities would see “a fairly drastic and immediate reduction in the number of invitations to join consortiums”.
Only 12% of bids for Horizon 2020 funds are successful, a rate that falls by more than half in highly competitive areas. Given the low probability of winning funds at the best of times, Gorman said it was natural risk aversion to be cautious of UK partners. In many cases, British organisations will not have a clue they have lost out. “If you don’t get invited to the party, you don’t even know there is a party,” he said.
“I strongly suspect that UK politicians simply don’t understand this, and think it is ‘business as usual’, at least until negotiations have been completed. They are wrong, the problems start right now,” he added. As a former European commission official, Gorman oversaw research projects and now advises universities and companies on how to succeed in EU-funded research programmes.
According to Gorman, the UK government must make a clear and immediate statement on how Britain will take part in future EU projects from outside the union. “All the talk is about when negotiations will start,” he said. “We don’t want that. People want to know now what is going to happen. This could all be solved by one pronouncement from one minister.”
Another obstacle British researchers face is the potential bias, whether conscious or not, of the independent evaluators who score applications for EU funding. Xavier Aubry at Zaz Ventures, a consultancy that works with consortiums to win Horizon 2020 funding, said Switzerland was discriminated against at the evaluation stage after its 2014 referendum to restrict immigration.
Aubry’s firm operates a “no win, no fee” policy, which has left him second-guessing how the evaluators will respond to the Brexit vote. “Right now the problem is that we don’t know how the evaluators will react, he said.” “Even if they are briefed that they should not discriminate, they could have unconscious biases.”
As a result, he thinks British organisations will have to bring more to the table to justify the risk of them being included in a consortium. “We are becoming more strict,” he said. “But we are not telling people to stop working with the UK.”
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 12, 2016, 09:50:30 AM
One thing the article failed to mention;
All ERC competitions for funding are open to top researchers from any country in the world, as long as they are committed to work at least half of their time in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Research_Council
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 12, 2016, 10:05:27 AM
Britain’s vote to leave the EU has unleashed a wave of discrimination against UK researchers, with elite universities in the country coming under pressure to abandon collaborations with European partners.
In a confidential survey of the UK’s Russell Group universities, the Guardian found cases of British academics being asked to leave EU-funded projects or to step down from leadership roles because they are considered a financial liability.
In one case, an EU project officer recommended that a lead investigator drop all UK partners from a consortium because Britain’s share of funding could not be guaranteed. The note implied that if UK organisations remained on the project, which is due to start in January 2017, the contract signing would be delayed until Britain had agreed a fresh deal with Europe.
The backlash against UK researchers began immediately after the June referendum when the failure to plan for a post-Brexit Britain cast serious doubts over the chances of British organisations winning future EU funding. British researchers receive about £1bn a year from EU finding programmes such as Horizon 2020, but access to the money must be completely renegotiated under Brexit.
The 24 universities in the Russell Group are regarded as Britain’s elite institutions. With Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, University College London and Imperial College among their number, they are renowned for world-class research and academic excellence.
One leading university said anecdotal evidence that UK applicants were being dropped from EU bids came almost straight after the vote. Since then they had witnessed “a substantial increase in definitive evidence that EU projects are reluctant to be in collaboration with UK partners, and that potentially all new funding opportunities from Horizon 2020 are closing”.
Incidents reported by the universities suggest that researchers across the natural sciences, the engineering disciplines and social sciences are all affected. At least two social science collaborations with Dutch universities have been told UK partners are unwelcome, one Russell Group university said in the survey.
Speaking at Oxford’s Wolfson College last Friday, the university’s chancellor, Chris Patten, said Oxford received perhaps more research income than any European university, with about 40% coming from government. “Our research income will of course fall significantly after we have left the EU unless a Brexit government guarantees to cover the shortfall,” Lord Patten said.
The uncertainty over future funding for projects stands to harm research in other ways, the survey suggests. A number of institutions that responded said some researchers were reluctant to carry on with bids for EU funds because of the financial unknowns, while others did not want to be the weak link in a consortium. One university said it had serious concerns about its ability to recruit research fellows for current projects.
Some Russell Group universities declined to comment for the survey, and not all of those which did knew of any discrimination against their researchers. Though one university said concerns over the impact of the referendum had become a part of almost every conversation about research, their academics were continuing with funding applications as usual.
A week after the referendum, science minister Jo Johnson told academics and industry figures he had raised concerns over potential discrimination against UK researchers with the EU science commissioner, Carlos Moedas. Johnson has asked a team at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to gather evidence for discrimination and urged organisations to report any incidents. Until the UK left the EU, he said the situation was “business as usual”.
Others see it differently. Joe Gorman, a senior scientist at Sintef, Norway’s leading research institute, said he believed UK industry and universities would see “a fairly drastic and immediate reduction in the number of invitations to join consortiums”.
Only 12% of bids for Horizon 2020 funds are successful, a rate that falls by more than half in highly competitive areas. Given the low probability of winning funds at the best of times, Gorman said it was natural risk aversion to be cautious of UK partners. In many cases, British organisations will not have a clue they have lost out. “If you don’t get invited to the party, you don’t even know there is a party,” he said.
“I strongly suspect that UK politicians simply don’t understand this, and think it is ‘business as usual’, at least until negotiations have been completed. They are wrong, the problems start right now,” he added. As a former European commission official, Gorman oversaw research projects and now advises universities and companies on how to succeed in EU-funded research programmes.
According to Gorman, the UK government must make a clear and immediate statement on how Britain will take part in future EU projects from outside the union. “All the talk is about when negotiations will start,” he said. “We don’t want that. People want to know now what is going to happen. This could all be solved by one pronouncement from one minister.”
Another obstacle British researchers face is the potential bias, whether conscious or not, of the independent evaluators who score applications for EU funding. Xavier Aubry at Zaz Ventures, a consultancy that works with consortiums to win Horizon 2020 funding, said Switzerland was discriminated against at the evaluation stage after its 2014 referendum to restrict immigration.
Aubry’s firm operates a “no win, no fee” policy, which has left him second-guessing how the evaluators will respond to the Brexit vote. “Right now the problem is that we don’t know how the evaluators will react, he said.” “Even if they are briefed that they should not discriminate, they could have unconscious biases.”
As a result, he thinks British organisations will have to bring more to the table to justify the risk of them being included in a consortium. “We are becoming more strict,” he said. “But we are not telling people to stop working with the UK.”
some of us understand brexit will bring some problems but think that overall it will be better than staying in a Union that is beginning to implode
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 12, 2016, 10:27:05 AM
All ERC competitions for funding are open to top researchers from any country in the world, as long as they are committed to work at least half of their time in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Research_Council
So you think it is a good idea then, for the UK to lose grants for scientific research which could benefit us and the rest of the planet ?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 12, 2016, 11:15:09 AM
This could well prove to be a brexit song for Cameron.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 12, 2016, 11:30:53 AM
I was waiting for that. I already have some and anticipated your reply. *&*%£
I'll let you try first.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Mr Gray on July 12, 2016, 01:50:16 PM
the fact is no one really knows what brexit will bring . I was looking forward to seeing a friend of mine...worked in business all over the world... now a senior university lecturer with a Phd in business studies. Currently lectures and lives in Germany. I asked him what he thought was the best option...he replied he did not have enough information to make a valid judgement....unlike some of the experts on here
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 12, 2016, 02:07:24 PM
So just to help, here is one cite G-Unit. There are a lot more.
Debunking the myths about British science after an EU exit
A case study of Switzerland as a model for UK science outside the EU
Fortunately, this discussion is not purely hypothetical, but rather based largely on the precedent of Switzerland’s relationship with the EU science programme. Given Switzerland’s high competence in science, geographical location in Europe, non-EU status and political difficulties with issues of EU immigration – Switzerland is a helpful model for the UK’s re-negotiation of science programme membership following a Brexit:
Synopsis of the Swiss-EU science story
1. Switzerland is not a member of the EU but since 1992 has obtained full access to Framework Programmes, as part of agreements that also guarantee free movement of persons, contributing to the FP budget alongside other EU members.
2. In 2014, a popular vote to limit mass migration was passed by a margin of 50.3 to 49.7%
3. The Swiss government was then unable to commit to ratification of a free movement accord with Croatia.
4. Switzerland was suspended from access to Horizon 2020.
5. The Swiss government was forced to replicate at national level a temporary programme to replace immediate access to the ERC programme and subsequently negotiated limited access to H2020, with much reduced access to programmes, exclusion from the new SME Instrument and loss of ability to coordinate collaborative research within H2020. This is reliant on continued freedom of movement. Switzerland also funds Swiss participants in EU collaborative programmes directly at national level, requiring parallel domestic administration and an agreement to accept all funding decisions made in Brussels, effectively losing control of its national science budget.
6. The Swiss were also not included on Erasmus+. They chose to ensure continuation of the scheme by paying nationally both for students leaving and for those coming in (i.e. paying double what they would as a member of the international programme).
7. Negotiated access to H2020 will end in 2016, when Switzerland must either ratify the Croatia treaty or lose access to H2020 plus risk its bilateral trade agreements with the EU.
8. Switzerland must contribute to H2020 based on GDP and population and has no role in developing funding topics.
This case study of Switzerland represents an instructive set of circumstances for the UK with regard to Horizon 2020 access post-Brexit. Switzerland’s current participation is dependent on free movement. Should the UK leave the EU and restrict freedom of movement, it will have no access to Horizon 2020 beyond third country status (Afghanistan, Argentina etc.). However, as detailed further on, the sheer size of the UK causes problems for re-joining the EU programme after rejecting the EU.
The UK must consider that a withdrawal from the EU, followed by Horizon 2020 ‘buy in’ such as that of the Swiss model, will require continued EU budget contribution. Switzerland makes a contribution to the Horizon 2020 budget based on its GDP and its population, but the UK may have to pay more than its current contribution and/or accept limited involvement, due to its size, so as not to be so overtly disruptive (without the counter-balance of net contribution investment into less competitive regions). It will also have to follow Switzerland in creating domestic administration structures for programmes where it will fund UK participation in Horizon 2020 collaboration from domestic budgets. This has the double disadvantage of replicating a complete administration structure in the UK that operates on EU financial and legal rules without any role in creating those rules, and it must agree to a single evaluation decision made in Brussels to avoid damaging the partner-worthiness of UK participants with an additional UK level of evaluation.
The requirement to agree to implement funding decisions made in Brussels will ensure that the UK cannot control budget allocated to such collaborations. This creates a scenario in conflict with claims by anti-EU groups. The UK will still be contributing to EU science financially, it will have no control over domestic budget for collaborative research and it will have to sustain a parallel administration structure. This combination of factors means that the UK cannot make a simple financial calculation on financial contribution to EU science nor estimate how much it would retain to fund UK research post-Brexit.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Admin on July 12, 2016, 02:32:47 PM
the fact is no one really knows what brexit will bring . I was looking forward to seeing a friend of mine...worked in business all over the world... now a senior university lecturer with a Phd in business studies. Currently lectures and lives in Germany. I asked him what he thought was the best option...he replied he did not have enough information to make a valid judgement....unlike some of the experts on here
People make judgements based on their own experiences and circumstances. The so-called experts who are paid large sums by our government have been found wanting in respect of several crucial issues already. One man's expert is another man's folly.
I do agree though that nobody can foretell what a brexit future will bring as this is virgin territory. The UK has survived on its own before and will do so again. In my view, the advantages greatly outweigh any short-term disadvantages in relation to the vast majority of people in this wonderful country of ours.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 12, 2016, 02:37:38 PM
That's Switzerland. But the other countries can also apply, Pakistan, for example;
The European Union (EU) as a world leader in research and innovation has launched a Horizon-2020 programme in follow-up of similar previously implemented FP6 and FP7 programmes. It also allows significant funding to non-EU Member States, like Pakistan. Horizon-2020 programme is open for international participants to promote joint high profile scientific projects through collaborative consortia together with EU science and technology partners. For this funding opportunity, an impressive amount of € 79 billion is available worldwide for seven-year term, that is more than € ten billion per year.
All scientists and researchers in various organizations across the country are invited and encouraged to develop consortia with EU partners, prepare high quality research proposal(s) and submit to the European Union http://www.psf.gov.pk/horizon_2020.aspx
What, if any, costs are applicable I don't know, but the Swiss approach is not the only possibility.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 12, 2016, 02:40:27 PM
That's Switzerland. But the other countries can also apply, Pakistan, for example;
The European Union (EU) as a world leader in research and innovation has launched a Horizon-2020 programme in follow-up of similar previously implemented FP6 and FP7 programmes. It also allows significant funding to non-EU Member States, like Pakistan. Horizon-2020 programme is open for international participants to promote joint high profile scientific projects through collaborative consortia together with EU science and technology partners. For this funding opportunity, an impressive amount of € 79 billion is available worldwide for seven-year term, that is more than € ten billion per year.
All scientists and researchers in various organizations across the country are invited and encouraged to develop consortia with EU partners, prepare high quality research proposal(s) and submit to the European Union http://www.psf.gov.pk/horizon_2020.aspx
What, if any, costs are applicable I don't know, but the Swiss approach is not the only possibility.
There are no freebies G-Unit.
Perhaps you should find out about other countries then.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 12, 2016, 02:53:31 PM
the fact is no one really knows what brexit will bring . I was looking forward to seeing a friend of mine...worked in business all over the world... now a senior university lecturer with a Phd in business studies. Currently lectures and lives in Germany. I asked him what he thought was the best option...he replied he did not have enough information to make a valid judgement....unlike some of the experts on here
I found it quite hilarious that the team of lawyers writing to Cameron [will their letter arrive before he goes?] seem to think the voters in the referendum didn't have enough information to make the decision. They say there should be a vote on the issue in Parliament.
In order that MP's make an informed decision there should first be a Royal Commission or an equivalent independent body to receive evidence and report, within a short, fixed timescale, on the benefits, costs and risks of triggering Article 50 to the UK as a whole, and to all of its constituent populations. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/in-full-the-letter-from-1000-lawyers-to-david-cameron-over-eu-referendum-brexit-legality-a7130226.html
So those who campaigned and informed the voters didn't, in the opinion of these lawyers, understand the issues themselves!
What a damning indictment of the capabilities and knowledge of our MP's! If they didn't do their research before the referendum they are unfit for purpose, surely?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on July 12, 2016, 05:41:39 PM
I found it quite hilarious that the team of lawyers writing to Cameron [will their letter arrive before he goes?] seem to think the voters in the referendum didn't have enough information to make the decision. They say there should be a vote on the issue in Parliament.
In order that MP's make an informed decision there should first be a Royal Commission or an equivalent independent body to receive evidence and report, within a short, fixed timescale, on the benefits, costs and risks of triggering Article 50 to the UK as a whole, and to all of its constituent populations. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/in-full-the-letter-from-1000-lawyers-to-david-cameron-over-eu-referendum-brexit-legality-a7130226.html
So those who campaigned and informed the voters didn't, in the opinion of these lawyers, understand the issues themselves!
What a damning indictment of the capabilities and knowledge of our MP's! If they didn't do their research before the referendum they are unfit for purpose, surely?
You need look no further than Michael Gove's comment that "people in this country have had enough of experts" to know that certainly some MPs are completely unfit for purpose. The more informed ones of course were accused of scare-mongering....
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 12, 2016, 07:18:49 PM
You need look no further than Michael Gove's comment that "people in this country have had enough of experts" to know that certainly some MPs are completely unfit for purpose. The more informed ones of course were accused of scare-mongering....
The more informed ones being?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alfie on July 12, 2016, 11:36:49 PM
The ones who sought to inform themselves and arm themselves with reliable facts and data, mainly through consulting people and organisations who know what they are talking about.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on July 13, 2016, 12:48:40 AM
I'm a keen advocate of democracy. I have made a case for leaving in an attempt to provoke someone into making a case for staying. It didn't work, though, I still haven't seen any factual case for remaining, just vague references to economics.
I don't think anyone has reason to be grateful to him. He agreed to hold a referendum out of fear of Farage. When the people voted against his recommendations he ran away instead of doing his duty.
I am standing on my own in this forum it appears.
I would like to thank David Cameron for his efforts over the past years.
He has been a hard working PM and shown leadership and integrity at all times.
He has worked hard at making friends with the leaders of the EU in order to gain the best possible for the UK, but Brexit has blown all his efforts.
The Referendum was his mistake and a bad one. He has acknowledged that by doing the correct and courageous thing of resigning .
BUT having correctly resigned he was prepared to fight for the best for the UK, within the parameters of Brexit and the EU. This was originally for the next few months until a new PM was elected. So he thought that he had a few months of uncomfortable relationships to mend for the benefit of the UK ... and was prepared to do that.
Thank you David Cameron for all you have done over the past few years. We shall miss your steady, honourable and intelligent leadership.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on July 13, 2016, 01:15:42 AM
I would like to thank David Cameron for his efforts over the past years.
He has been a hard working PM and shown leadership and integrity at all times.
He has worked hard at making friends with the leaders of the EU in order to gain the best possible for the UK, but Brexit has blown all his efforts.
The Referendum was his mistake and a bad one. He has acknowledged that by doing the correct and courageous thing of resigning .
BUT having correctly resigned he was prepared to fight for the best for the UK, within the parameters of Brexit and the EU. This was originally for the next few months until a new PM was elected. So he thought that he had a few months of uncomfortable relationships to mend for the benefit of the UK ... and was prepared to do that.
Thank you David Cameron for all you have done over the past few years. We shall miss your steady, honourable and intelligent leadership.
Whats he memorable for? Apart from backtracking and changing his mind? Hes been one of the most useless PMs for decades
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: misty on July 13, 2016, 01:48:49 AM
Whats he memorable for? Apart from backtracking and changing his mind? Hes been one of the most useless PMs for decades
He's a decent & honest man, Mercury, bit of a rarity in today's political climate - and far from useless. He gave the people the opportunity to choose which path to follow at the crossroads.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 13, 2016, 05:23:40 AM
That's Switzerland. But the other countries can also apply, Pakistan, for example;
The European Union (EU) as a world leader in research and innovation has launched a Horizon-2020 programme in follow-up of similar previously implemented FP6 and FP7 programmes. It also allows significant funding to non-EU Member States, like Pakistan. Horizon-2020 programme is open for international participants to promote joint high profile scientific projects through collaborative consortia together with EU science and technology partners. For this funding opportunity, an impressive amount of € 79 billion is available worldwide for seven-year term, that is more than € ten billion per year.
All scientists and researchers in various organizations across the country are invited and encouraged to develop consortia with EU partners, prepare high quality research proposal(s) and submit to the European Union http://www.psf.gov.pk/horizon_2020.aspx
What, if any, costs are applicable I don't know, but the Swiss approach is not the only possibility.
Some deal will no doubt be worked out eventually, but the Swiss conundrum was over the referendum to limit migration, and that's despite the fact that as an EFTA member it pays a substantial amount to the EU budget.
There is no free lunch.
Click on the "country" tab: http://cordis.europa.eu/projects/home_en.html
Aside from Canada and the US (which presumably have some established relationship) and one or two others, the majority of funding to non-EU countries went to the developing world.
Ironically, the UK has had the highest number of projects funded to date.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2016, 09:05:31 AM
I would like to thank David Cameron for his efforts over the past years.
He has been a hard working PM and shown leadership and integrity at all times.
He has worked hard at making friends with the leaders of the EU in order to gain the best possible for the UK, but Brexit has blown all his efforts.
The Referendum was his mistake and a bad one. He has acknowledged that by doing the correct and courageous thing of resigning .
BUT having correctly resigned he was prepared to fight for the best for the UK, within the parameters of Brexit and the EU. This was originally for the next few months until a new PM was elected. So he thought that he had a few months of uncomfortable relationships to mend for the benefit of the UK ... and was prepared to do that.
Thank you David Cameron for all you have done over the past few years. We shall miss your steady, honourable and intelligent leadership.
Are you a millionaire?
In pursuit of reducing our national debt Cameron's government has;
Increased child poverty to one child in every four and rising. Mothers have had to use food banks to feed their children. The government has consistently attacked the most vulnerable, including the disabled some of whom have had to prove to medical panels that lost limbs are still missing ffs. They set targets for affordable housing but didn't meet them. They promised to replace every council house sold off, but didn't. The gap between rich and poor is the highest since 1921. They have forced people off benefits by sanctioning them, enabling them to quote lower job-seeker figures. They count people as 'in work' who have zero hours contracts which means some weeks they may not work at all and they have to be ready to go in to work if called in only to be sent away again later if things go quiet. For those in work wages have fallen.
The national debt? Has grown by £555 billion.
The Brexit vote has shown the divisions in our country caused by this government.
The most disastrous premiership since Neville Chamberlain is about to draw to a brutally abrupt end. David Cameron is a failure on his own terms, as well as the terms of his opponents. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/12/david-cameron-premiership-tragedy-pay-eu-referendum
Thank you Mr Cameron and good riddance!!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: mercury on July 14, 2016, 12:47:14 AM
He's a decent & honest man, Mercury, bit of a rarity in today's political climate - and far from useless. He gave the people the opportunity to choose which path to follow at the crossroads.
He himself created the crossroad , he didnt have to
He also has reneged on promises (not to the rich btw)
I would like to thank David Cameron for his efforts over the past years.
He has been a hard working PM and shown leadership and integrity at all times.
He has worked hard at making friends with the leaders of the EU in order to gain the best possible for the UK, but Brexit has blown all his efforts.
The Referendum was his mistake and a bad one. He has acknowledged that by doing the correct and courageous thing of resigning .
BUT having correctly resigned he was prepared to fight for the best for the UK, within the parameters of Brexit and the EU. This was originally for the next few months until a new PM was elected. So he thought that he had a few months of uncomfortable relationships to mend for the benefit of the UK ... and was prepared to do that.
Thank you David Cameron for all you have done over the past few years. We shall miss your steady, honourable and intelligent leadership.
I agree I think he has been a really decent bloke. May sounds interesting...getting rid of osborne,,,,looks like she wants to take the party towards the centre....excellent
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2016, 09:23:51 AM
The ones who sought to inform themselves and arm themselves with reliable facts and data, mainly through consulting people and organisations who know what they are talking about.
Names?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 16, 2016, 10:24:30 AM
Minister for Brexit Davis Davis appeared unaware of how EU trade deals actually work
Mr Davis believed it was possible to negotiate one-on-one trade deals as recently as May
To be fair, the Flat-Earthers of a different era must have been sceptical about the chances of success of expeditions to discover the "New World" and yet they succeeded. On the other hand, did the risk side of the gamble involve more than the expedition costs and the potential loss of the ships and their crews?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 16, 2016, 10:28:44 AM
I agree I think he has been a really decent bloke. May sounds interesting...getting rid of osborne,,,,looks like she wants to take the party towards the centre....excellent
I don't think Cameron was that bad, either, actually.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 16, 2016, 10:33:44 AM
I do wish that David Davis and Assange could arrange for one of them to have a tattoo etched onto their nose to make it easier to distinguish them visually... 8(8-))
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Myster on July 16, 2016, 10:52:01 AM
Haven't we all got a doppelganger, Carana?... mine's Freddy Krueger 8(8-))
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 16, 2016, 11:00:07 AM
Haven't we all got a doppelganger, Carana?... mine's Freddy Krueger 8(8-))
A nail file might be cheaper... @)(++(*
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 16, 2016, 11:16:32 AM
At the moment (and I may change my mind about this), but my impression is that TM has brought in Brexiteers who are going to have to deliver more than airy-fairy PR slogans.
Either they pull their socks up (or whatever else they may have dropped along the way) and implement the lofty promises, or they'll be toast.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: sadie on July 16, 2016, 01:50:38 PM
Hmmm. I'd agree that I don't think he'd thought through proposing a referendum.
No he didnt and it was just another hallmark of his modus operandi
The reason he wasnt an impressive leader or even a good one is that basically he did not deliver on his promises but also went 180 degrees on them by implementing policies that proved he was a hypocrite, I dont know how better to say it
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 17, 2016, 07:25:22 AM
Hmmmm. I think a few more coffees might be helpful in order to examine this a bit more thoroughly.
BREXIT STRATEGY May’s new chief Europe negotiator David Davis lays out plans to take us out of EU
Minister expects negotiations with UK's favoured trade partners to take place within 12-24 months By DAVID DAVIS, Newly appointed Brexit Secretary 15th July 2016, 4:10 am
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 17, 2016, 07:52:33 AM
Single countries, with ability to be flexible and focussed, negotiate trade deals far more quickly than trade blocs. South Korea negotiated a deal with the US in a single year. The EU takes more than six years to negotiate trade deals.
I expect the new Prime Minister to trigger a round of global trade deals with all our most favoured partners — and the negotiation of most within between 12 and 24 months.
Hmmm.
The United States–Korea Free Trade Agreement (officially: Free trade agreement between the United States of America and the Republic of Korea),[1] also known as KORUS FTA,[2] is a trade agreement between the United States and the Republic of Korea. Negotiations were announced on February 2, 2006, and concluded on April 1, 2007. The treaty was first signed on June 30, 2007, with a renegotiated version signed in early December 2010.[3][4]
Ok, but what appears to be glossed over is that the agreement seemes to have only entered into effect in March 2012.
It is also worth noting that there was a large and unpredicted increase in the size of the U.S. trade deficit with South Korea following the implementation of the KORUS. The U.S. trade deficit with South Korea more than doubled from $13.2 billion in 2011, the last year before the agreement took effect to $28.3 billion in 2015. 2 http://cepr.net/images/stories/reports/trade-and-jobs-2016-04.pdf
I make that 6 years from the start of negotiations to when the agreement actually came into effect, i.e., the same amount of time as the EU ones...
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 17, 2016, 08:15:34 AM
Deals with the US and China alone will give us a trade area almost twice the size of the EU — and of course, we will also be seeking deals with many others.
This will provide massive markets for our exports and cut costs for our manufacturing industries.
Ok. Eventually.
Take our car manufacturers. Electronics in today’s cars exceed 25 per cent of total vehicle value. And the vast majority of the world’s electronic components are manufactured in Asia. Many of these face tariffs, increasing cost. Elimination of such tariffs will decrease the cost of manufacturing a car in the UK, increasing our industry’s global competitiveness.
Hmmm. But the WTO has already agreed to progressively drop tariffs on car-related components for all 192 members as of this month anyway.
So, yes, it would decrease the cost of manufacturing a car in the UK, but how would it increase the UK's global competitiveness in particular when car manufacturers in other countries also benefit from the same deal? &%+((£
The new trade deal will exempt IT-related products worth $1.3 trillion annually from import tariffs
By Peter Sayer Follow
IDG News Service | Dec 17, 2015 5:50 AM PT
In a move meant to cut the cost of IT and consumer electronics products, the World Trade Organization is ending tariffs on imports including game consoles, TVs, GPS receivers and advanced chips from July 2016.
The tariffs -- in some countries as high as 35 percent on products such as video cameras -- will be phased out over seven years under an agreement finalized Wednesday, and applies to all 192 member countries of the WTO.
The vast majority of the savings will take effect next July, when tariffs are abolished on around 130 categories of IT equipment, accounting for 88 percent of affected imports, WTO Director-General Roberto Azevêdo said Wednesday.
By 2019, 95 percent of imports affected by the changes will be tariff-free, with all 201 product categories covered by the agreement being exempted within seven years, Azevêdo said.
Other products that will become tariff-exempt include touch screens, telecommunications satellites, tools for manufacturing printed circuits and some medical products, he said.
While cars aren't directly affected by the trade deal, components to make them safer and more fuel-efficient are, as the multicomponent integrated circuits they contain were recently reclassified as semiconductors, one of the categories exempted from tariffs, according to the European Semiconductor Industry Association.
The agreement affects around 10 percent of the world trade in information and communications technology products and will eliminate around $50 billion in tariffs annually, according to IT industry lobby group DigitalEurope. It expects a $190 billion boost to global GDP from the changes. http://www.computerworld.com/article/3016398/computer-hardware/wto-tariff-deal-should-mean-cheaper-electronics-by-summer.html
Next bit: The same will happen across other industries as tariffs come down and the cost of doing business with the UK is reduced. The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit from the EU but be fully negotiated and understood well before then. That means foreign investment by companies keen to take advantage of these deals will grow in the next two years.
Tell that to the US and South Korea...
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 17, 2016, 08:34:42 AM
Regulation already in place will stay, for the moment, but the flood of new regulation from Europe will be halted.
It will?
We should also continue lessening the tax burden. In particular, taxes that have a harmful effect on growth.
This Conservative Government has done good work in this area, with corporate tax cut from almost 30 per cent to 20 and plans to cut it to 15.
Ok, I get that bit.
There is some justified (IMO) criticism of the EU here: http://qz.com/721089/the-case-for-brexit/
This will make the UK a more attractive business destination — and tax gained from companies moving their operations to the UK, through the people they employ and the sales they generate, will more than offset any reduced corporate tax take.
Hmmm. Assuming that the target export market of those new companies is not the EU...
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 17, 2016, 08:48:39 AM
This leaves the question of Single Market access. The ideal outcome is continued tariff-free access. Once the European nations realise we will not budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interests.
Ask Switzerland...
There will be lower prices in the shops once we are outside the Common External Tariff.
Lower prices for what? Food?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 17, 2016, 10:18:01 AM
This leaves the question of Single Market access. The ideal outcome is continued tariff-free access. Once the European nations realise we will not budge on control of our borders, they will want to talk, in their own interests.
Ask Switzerland...
There will be lower prices in the shops once we are outside the Common External Tariff.
Lower prices for what? Food?
Random thoughts: We import 40% of our food don't we ? (at the mercy of exchange rates and fuel prices) Car industry : The only true UK manufacturers are TVR and Morgan aren't they ? Can the UK negotiate trade deals with other other countries whilst legally being part of a trading bloc that already has trading agreements ? or do we have to legally cease to a member of that bloc before we can start negotiating ? IYSWIM
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: G-Unit on July 17, 2016, 10:37:41 AM
It reads as if we could do business with Australia anyway, in the EU or not.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 17, 2016, 11:04:22 AM
The UK's financial sector drives an unusually big part of its economy
https://www.theatlas.com/charts/SyUWY-NI
There's no mention of the financial sector in that vague idea of a plan.
In fact, there's not much mention of anything except the example of the car industry (for which tariff-free electronic components are being phased in anyway).
I've no problem with an upbeat look towards the future, but it's not telling the whole story, obviously.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 17, 2016, 11:06:30 AM
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 17, 2016, 11:53:18 AM
As long as someone wants to buy and someone else wants to sell trade will carry on. Oddly enough even when there are trade embargoes.
The question where UK is concerned will be "can the Brexiters deliver what they promised" and will that be what 52% of those voting thought it was. Starting from a datum where 48% are pissed off already .................... &%+((£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on July 29, 2016, 08:14:13 AM
I ain't being racist, but... https://rizmc.bandcamp.com/track/i-aint-being-racist-but
8()-000(
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2016, 09:21:48 AM
I would like to thank David Cameron for his efforts over the past years.
He has been a hard working PM and shown leadership and integrity at all times.
He has worked hard at making friends with the leaders of the EU in order to gain the best possible for the UK, but Brexit has blown all his efforts.
The Referendum was his mistake and a bad one. He has acknowledged that by doing the correct and courageous thing of resigning .
BUT having correctly resigned he was prepared to fight for the best for the UK, within the parameters of Brexit and the EU. This was originally for the next few months until a new PM was elected. So he thought that he had a few months of uncomfortable relationships to mend for the benefit of the UK ... and was prepared to do that.
Thank you David Cameron for all you have done over the past few years. We shall miss your steady, honourable and intelligent leadership.
I agree with most of that Sadie but Cameron was guilty of a huge misjudgement when he agreed to the Referendum. He wrongly thought that all would be OK on the day, that the spoilt Londoners would carry the vote. Oh but he couldn't have been more wrong. He forgot about the silent majority who have been watching from the sidelines for years just waiting for the opportunity to make their vote count and count it did.
Take the 2½ million remainers from N Ireland and Scotland out of the mix and it is clear that most English people have had enough and by voting leave they were making their wishes known. All we need now is a vote to take the political and financial power out of London and back to the regions where it belongs. Time to put the Eaton boys where they belong!
As if Cameron's last days in office weren't embarrassing enough his final actions in the Queens honours row have tainted his legacy for all time. And it was all going so well too!
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on August 03, 2016, 04:23:29 PM
I have no problem with the idea that the EU is a heavy, bureaucratic, slow behemoth.
I do have a problem trying to work out how the full Brexit is a solution... And no one in authority seems to have a clue, either.
And then the world gets the looming prospect of #CinnamonHitler becoming the leader of the world's major superpower, who seems more interested in his own personal empire than anything else.
&%+((£
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on August 03, 2016, 04:25:23 PM
Hmmmm. I think a few more coffees might be helpful in order to examine this a bit more thoroughly.
BREXIT STRATEGY May’s new chief Europe negotiator David Davis lays out plans to take us out of EU
Minister expects negotiations with UK's favoured trade partners to take place within 12-24 months By DAVID DAVIS, Newly appointed Brexit Secretary 15th July 2016, 4:10 am
Random thoughts: We import 40% of our food don't we ? (at the mercy of exchange rates and fuel prices) Car industry : The only true UK manufacturers are TVR and Morgan aren't they ? Can the UK negotiate trade deals with other other countries whilst legally being part of a trading bloc that already has trading agreements ? or do we have to legally cease to a member of that bloc before we can start negotiating ? IYSWIM
We can do all the trade deals we want outside the EU but none can come into effect until Brexit Day.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on August 03, 2016, 04:32:15 PM
I have no problem with the idea that the EU is a heavy, bureaucratic, slow behemoth.
I do have a problem trying to work out how the full Brexit is a solution... And no one in authority seems to have a clue, either.
And then the world gets the looming prospect of #CinnamonHitler becoming the leader of the world's major superpower, who seems more interested in his own personal empire than anything else.
&%+((£
Would you have preferred a European Super State led by Germany, a European Army and all the immigrants we can fit in just for openers?
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: Carana on August 03, 2016, 04:32:27 PM
We can do all the trade deals we want outside the EU but none can come into effect until Brexit Day.
My question was "can we negotiate a separate trade deal with a country outside the EU with whom a trade deal already exists by virtue of our membership of the EU" ? One can see the advantages of contemporaneous negotiations for exiting and having new trade deals but will this be acceptable ? One senses a monumental fudge coming up over the horizon to prevent a void occurring ...............
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on August 03, 2016, 06:27:50 PM
My question was "can we negotiate a separate trade deal with a country outside the EU with whom a trade deal already exists by virtue of our membership of the EU" ? One can see the advantages of contemporaneous negotiations for exiting and having new trade deals but will this be acceptable ? One senses a monumental fudge coming up over the horizon to prevent a void occurring ...............
And my answer was yes, we can negotiate deals, but they won't come into effect until Brexit Day which will probably be January 2019 at latest.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on August 03, 2016, 06:33:25 PM
OK gotcha ?{)(** So we have between now and "the starting pistol" to hire all these crack "Kiwi" negotiators we are hearing about ?
I would say they have hired many negotiators already and will do so throughout the process. My only hope is that Theresa invokes Article 50 earlier than the end of the year because the sooner we dump the EU the better.
Many other people in Europe want to follow what us Brits have achieved and get out too, that is why some EU leaders have been calling for Article 50 to be invoked immediately before the rot spreads.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: misty on August 03, 2016, 07:13:37 PM
I would say they have hired many negotiators already and will do so throughout the process. My only hope is that Theresa invokes Article 50 earlier than the end of the year because the sooner we dump the EU the better.
Many other people in Europe want to follow what us Brits have achieved and get out too, that is why some EU leaders have been calling for Article 50 to be invoked immediately before the rot spreads.
Many other ordinary people in Europe may want to follow us but our economy was in a much healthier state than most European countries bar Germany. One look at the falling pound & the drop in confidence over the UK economy should make them think twice, given the scale of national debts. The P.I.G.S. nations surely cannot consider it would be in their best interests to leave the EU and the safety net of the ECB - they just wouldn't survive economically. IMO the rot won't spread but the powerful masters of the EU will want to be seen punishing us, asap, firing a warning to anyone else contemplating rocking the boat.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on August 03, 2016, 07:29:04 PM
Many other ordinary people in Europe may want to follow us but our economy was in a much healthier state than most European countries bar Germany. One look at the falling pound & the drop in confidence over the UK economy should make them think twice, given the scale of national debts. The P.I.G.S. nations surely cannot consider it would be in their best interests to leave the EU and the safety net of the ECB - they just wouldn't survive economically. IMO the rot won't spread but the powerful masters of the EU will want to be seen punishing us, asap, firing a warning to anyone else contemplating rocking the boat.
All the more reason we get out now before we are eternally wed to this wasteful giant and find exit a financial impossibility. The UK's economy is ranked fifth in the world which will serve us well as we approach Brexit. When the UK gets its trade deals with the rest of the world regardless of what happens with EU member States, just watch who then will be clambering to follow us into a new world free from artificial EU customs tariffs.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: misty on August 03, 2016, 07:51:51 PM
All the more reason we get out now before we are eternally wed to this wasteful giant and find exit a financial impossibility. The UK's economy is ranked fifth in the world which will serve us well as we approach Brexit. When the UK gets its trade deals with the rest of the world regardless of what happens with EU member States, just watch who then will be clambering to follow us into a new world free from artificial EU customs tariffs.
It's going to be the most expensive divorce in history. What a pity the Turks didn't have their military coup before the vote - the threat of those 70 million potential migrants played no small part in the voting imo. I will be staggered if the EU allows Turkey to become a member.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on August 03, 2016, 08:11:44 PM
All the more reason we get out now before we are eternally wed to this wasteful giant and find exit a financial impossibility. The UK's economy is ranked fifth in the world which will serve us well as we approach Brexit. When the UK gets its trade deals with the rest of the world regardless of what happens with EU member States, just watch who then will be clambering to follow us into a new world free from artificial EU customs tariffs.
We were 5 th , before the referendum.
The French overtook us, shortly after the referendum result. 8)-)))
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: John on August 03, 2016, 09:03:13 PM
The French overtook us, shortly after the referendum result. 8)-)))
Nah, a short term blip. We should be on our way to catching Germany once they have to bail out the other defunct Euro States and fork out for the poverty ridden new ones about to join. No wonder Angela was so upset as us opting out.
Nah, a short term blip. We should be on our way to catching Germany once they have to bail out the other defunct Euro States and fork out for the poverty ridden new ones about to join. No wonder Angela was so upset as us opting out.
Hardly, the Germans have a larger economy and are certainly have a higher productivity than their UK counterparts.
Try harder John. 8((()*/
Germany and France's EU bill will get much larger after the UK pulls out. Add to that the cost of funding several new eastern European States who are all takers and that bill is set to skyrocket.
Title: Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
Post by: stephen25000 on August 10, 2016, 07:42:48 PM
Germany and France's EU bill will get much larger after the UK pulls out. Add to that the cost of funding several new eastern European States who are all takers and that bill is set to skyrocket.