Dewani and the Golden Touch jewellers.

[John]

The posts in this thread have been taken from another topic.

Members are reminded to stay within the thread theme and to avoid making personal comments. TY

[dewanifacts]

First off; the title of this thread is grossly biased and misleading - it implies that Dewani committed a crime by exchanging money.

This whole line of argument is a trip down a rabbit hole. The shop owner was the one who performed an illegal transaction. If Dewani had committed a crime, then he would have been charged and found guilty of that crime as there was clear evidence of him engaging in the transaction.

Dewani's explanation is that he asked Tongo to take him somewhere that he could get a good exchange rate for his foreign currency and Tongo took him to this jewellery shop. There is nothing unusual or suspicious about this explanation. It makes valid sense and is what many tourists do every day, regardless of whether they have also drawn cash from a machine. Tourists assume that locals can advise them where to get a good rate. Unluckily for the Dewanis they got their advice from a crooked gentleman who had gained their trust and was willing to abuse it. 

If anyone did anything illegal it was the three Capetonian locals; the jewellery store owner Maria Bravetti, the shop employee, Thelma or even Tongo - all of whom would have been aware that the transaction was illegal.  Dewani was the foreigner who was taken there by his local trusted tour guide.

The three people involved gave three different versions of events.

Dewani said he changed GBP
Owner Bravetti said he changed $US
Shop assistant Thelma gave a police statement saying that Bravetti gave her some gold at the back of the shop and asked her to take it to another trader to exchange for Rand. It is not at all clear whether that gold was alleged to have come from Dewani, or whether Bravetti simply needed to swap some gold  to get enough Rand to be able to complete the transaction with Dewani. Thelma was not called as a witness in the trial. Any poster in this thread who tries to insinuate that Dewani swapped a gold watch for cash is wildly speculating with no substantiation.

If anyone had an incentive to lie about this transaction, it was the shop owner and the shop assistant who were both carrying out an illegal trade that they both knew was illegal.

Dewani had no reason to lie about what currency he exchanged. How would it benefit him to claim in court that he changed GBP if he actually changed $US? It could only serve to increase suspicion and work against him.

Anyone who tries to label this money changing transaction as clandestine or the cash as "secret money" is simply trying to spin the same silly story as Tongo in a transparent and unsubstantiated attempt to make Dewani look suspicious. The transaction could never have been a secret considering there were other customers in the store, not to mention Bravetti and Thelma. One need look no further than the Dewani trial to see that Bravetti was called as a a witness, so if Dewani had in fact done anything illegal, then Bravetti's testimony would have seen him convicted of that crime.

So what happened to the R10000? That remains one of the unknowns. Dewani claimed that it was in Anni's handbag that was stolen during the robbery. Mngeni claimed that Qwabe took it. I seem to recall that Qwabe claimed that he and Mngeni split it, although Qwabe gave different stories in the Mngeni and Dewani trials.

It should further be remembered that this money exchange trip was one of the areas of testimony where Tongo was caught red handed fabricating evidence designed to incriminate Dewani. Paragraph 23.1.54 from the Dewani judgement reads:

23.1.54 Both in his plea explanation and in his affidavit, he (Tongo) stated that the accused had asked him if he knew of a place where he could exchange dollars for rands and where he did not have to produce his passport. This money was according to Mr. Tongo earmarked to pay the killers. In cross-examination it transpired that the accused never indicated that he did not want to produce his passport. His passport was, in fact, never mentioned. Mr. Tongo stated that that was just something that he (Mr. Tongo) thought. Mr. Tongo attributes the allegation in his affidavit in which he claimed that the accused did not want to produce his passport to a “mistake”. This is a serious mistake – because if in fact the accused deliberately wanted to act in a manner to hide the fact that he changed the money to pay the killers – it would certainly call for an explanation from the accused. It is a further indication of how Mr. Tongo was prepared to lie in a way which creates an atmosphere of suspicion regarding the accused.

[sika]

This piece of 'evidence' is a total non starter.   

More interesting is the conversation between the staff at the hotel reception, where a helicopter trip is discussed.

Any thoughts DF?

[John]

First off; the title of this thread is grossly biased and misleading - it implies that Dewani committed a crime by exchanging money.

I don't agree, it was an illegal currency exchange which was punishable as a crime under South African Law.  I thought you were promoting facts?

Furthermore, ignorance is no excuse under the Law!

Dewani's excuse (if true) is irrelevant in any event, his involvement was at his own instigation. He was caught out...end off!

[dewanifacts]

Can you provide some type of substantiation or point to a source that backs your claim that the money exchange was illegal under South African law?

I see no mention of it in the Dewani judgement and am struggling to find mention of it anywhere else.

[dewanifacts]

This piece of 'evidence' is a total non starter.   

More interesting is the conversation between the staff at the hotel reception, where a helicopter trip is discussed.

Any thoughts DF?

It's an interesting issue. My dewanifacts partners and I are at odds. We can't reach consensus! Whilst I believe that the helicopter conversation (shown in the Panorama documentary) appears to lend credibility to Dewani's story, it also undermines the evidence that the helicopter trip was simply a ruse used by Tongo to deceive Dewani into carrying a large sum of cash. If the trip was purely in Tongo's mind, then why would anyone be discussing it in the hotel? It is a puzzle and an unknown.

[John]

Can you provide some type of substantiation or point to a source that backs your claim that the money exchange was illegal under South African law?

I see no mention of it in the Dewani judgement and am struggling to find mention of it anywhere else.

Other “powerful pieces of evidence”, Mr Mopp went on, were that Mr Dewani failed to mention when questioned by his late wife’s family that he had the taxi driver take him to a black market money-changer, nor that he had been planning a surprise helicopter trip over the city for Anni, an explanation he would later give for the large amounts of money he had on him and the secret assignations with Tongo.

My understanding of 'black market money-changer' is illegal under the counter.  Do you have a different interpretation?

[Anna]

Foreign exchange

All major credit cards can be used in South Africa, with American Express and Diners Club enjoying less universal acceptance than MasterCard and Visa. If you have a so-called "chip card", you will be required to enter a pin code. Pin-based debit cards are often accepted too. Remember to notify your bank in advance that you will be travelling.

To exchange cheques for cash at foreign exchange dealers, you must present a valid passport.

Thomas Cook and American Express travellers' cheques can be cashed at all banks, bureaux de change and at some hotels.

Remember that all money transactions that involve foreign exchange must be done by authorised dealers (see lists of dealers below). In terms of exchange control regulations, it is illegal to buy or sell foreign currency to anyone except an authorised dealer.


http://www.southafrica.info/travel/advice/currency.htm#.VejCq-9RHIU

[dewanifacts]

Thanks Anna. That clarifies the legal position. It also underscores the fact that this law is peculiar to South Africa and not one that a tourist would likely be familiar with. As someone who has visited South Africa I can candidly admit that I had no knowledge of this law and if I had been presented with an opportunity to obtain an attractive exchange rate on travel money while I was there, I would likely have seized the opportunity being none the wiser that I was engaging in an illegal trade.

[dewanifacts]

Other “powerful pieces of evidence”, Mr Mopp went on, were that Mr Dewani failed to mention when questioned by his late wife’s family that he had the taxi driver take him to a black market money-changer, nor that he had been planning a surprise helicopter trip over the city for Anni, an explanation he would later give for the large amounts of money he had on him and the secret assignations with Tongo.

My understanding of 'black market money-changer' is illegal under the counter.  Do you have a different interpretation?

John: this is not evidence. In fact it is not even a submission made in court! It is a quote from a journalist and is actually quite a good example of how badly this case was reported and how biased and sensationalised the media coverage was. The term "black market money changer" was never mentioned in court - not even by the prosecution. You can verify this by referencing the prosecution's response to the S174 dismissal application - http://www.scribd.com/doc/248147307/Final-Heads-of-Argument

[dewanifacts]

Furthermore, ignorance is no excuse under the Law!

Dewani's excuse (if true) is irrelevant in any event, his involvement was at his own instigation. He was caught out...end off!

Ignorance is not an excuse at law, however in most circumstances courts will not convict someone for minor offences if a reasonable case can be made to suggest that they believed they were acting lawfully. That is precisely what occurred in this instance otherwise he would have been charged and convicted of illegally exchanging currency.

Your last sentence is extremely misleading and propagates a falsehood. There was no credible evidence to suggest that Dewani instigated or asked to be taken to a black market money exchange. In fact the evidence adduced in court, proved the opposite; Tongo was caught lying about this issue, as explained in paragraph 23.1.54 that I quoted a few posts previous to this one.

[John]

John: this is not evidence. In fact it is not even a submission made in court! It is a quote from a journalist and is actually quite a good example of how badly this case was reported and how biased and sensationalised the media coverage was. The term "black market money changer" was never mentioned in court - not even by the prosecution. You can verify this by referencing the prosecution's response to the S174 dismissal application - http://www.scribd.com/doc/248147307/Final-Heads-of-Argument

You are confusing facts with evidence and this is not a Court.  We are entitled to consider any anomaly or ommission in the search for the truth.  Prosecutor Mr Mopp raised the question of Dewani's failure to relate certain events to both his brother and his in-laws when he ommitted to tell them about the illegal money exchange when accompanied by Tongo.

Dewani lied about his private meetings with Tongo, denying that the two men had spoken again after the driver had dropped them off at the hotel during their Cape Town leg of their honeymoon.  CCTV footage revealed that Dewani spent more than ten minutes chatting to Tongo after he and his bride of two weeks had checked in – something he omitted to tell his family, even when he was specifically asked.  The state's argument quoted from a meeting that was secretly recorded by a cousin of the dead engineer who had become suspicious of Dewani's behaviour in the aftermath of his wife's death.  The recording is evidence before the court and prosecutors quoted Dewani blatantly misleading his own brother, Preyen.

PREYEN: So this guy, you haven't spoken to him [Tongo] again that night [after being dropped off on Friday 12 November]
SHRIEN: No uh, uh, Zola we'd uh, he left us, when he dropped us at six and that was it. Yeah!'

He also omitted to tell the meeting - which had been called to smooth tensions over between the families of Dewani and his dead bride - that he had seen Tongo on the following afternoon, when the driver took him to a black market money changer – allegedly to get the cash to pay for the 'hit' on his wife.

Instead, Dewani claimed that he had not seen Tongo until he picked the newlyweds up to take them out later that evening for their last fateful dinner - which, if true, would not have given the men sufficiently opportunity to plot a murder.

Such 'falsehoods' could not be explained away, since the court had yet to hear any reason for Dewani's varying explanations, prosecuting authorities claimed.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2848459/EXCLUSIVE-Tell-truth-Shrien-want-hear-words-Anni-Dewani-s-family-begs-husband-stand-bids-murder-charge-thrown-out.html

[John]

Ignorance is not an excuse at law, however in most circumstances courts will not convict someone for minor offences if a reasonable case can be made to suggest that they believed they were acting lawfully. That is precisely what occurred in this instance otherwise he would have been charged and convicted of illegally exchanging currency.

Your last sentence is extremely misleading and propagates a falsehood. There was no credible evidence to suggest that Dewani instigated or asked to be taken to a black market money exchange. In fact the evidence adduced in court, proved the opposite; Tongo was caught lying about this issue, as explained in paragraph 23.1.54 that I quoted a few posts previous to this one.

I don't accept that for a moment.  Dewani was exposed as a consummate liar so he was in very good company with Tongo and his chums.

[dewanifacts]

Dewani lied to his wife about his sexuality, lied to the world to prevent his embarrassing double life becoming global knowledge and he pretended to be a travel agent to get discounts.

Not even in the same ballpark as a group of thugs who robbed, kidnapped and murdered a tourist and then tried to incriminate the dead woman's husband with a pack of lies in court.   

To even suggest that they are comparable, shows your bias.

[dewanifacts]

You are confusing facts with evidence and this is not a Court.  We are entitled to consider any anomaly or ommission in the search for the truth. 

Fair call. I'd also like to know why Dewani omitted to mention the trip to the money changer from his story to the families. I have said all along that there are some unknowns. However that doesn't mean that everything is unknown. The evidence was more than enough to make certain things clear. 

For example, we know from the rest of the evidence that no agreement existed between Dewani and Tongo to have Anni murdered, so the explanation for Dewani's statement omissions must lie elsewhere. Perhaps Dewani felt ashamed and embarrassed that he had been suckered by a gang of thugs and his naivety had cost his wife her life. There could be any number of reasons and they would all be interesting to hear!