Author Topic: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?  (Read 274812 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #60 on: April 02, 2018, 08:44:24 PM »
Perhaps I wrongly assumed you were aware of my past link to Simon Hall?

Not dissimilar to Bamber he maintained innocence and launched a "high profile" public campaign. The CCRC referred his case back to the COA in 2010. His conviction was upheld in early 2011. He confessed his guilt in 2013 and hung himself in 2014.

I am fully aware of the controversy surrounding psychopathy now but hold my hands up to being naive back then; especially in relation to cluster b personality types.

I'd be interested to hear your opinion on bran scan evidence in criminal trials and how a hyperthetically future re- trial may play out.

Btw I've found your posts a breath of fresh air both here and on blue, all things considered
. Your posts appear to have garnered a lot of interest. You'll have most certainly rattled Bamber cage anyway  8((()*/

Putting what you see as my "anti-Bamber bias" aside and looking at this case from a pro Bamber point of view, what do you have to say to him and his supporters (and the supposed fence sitters) in relation to the way in which Bamber has played out his public campaign these past 3 decades?

I redacted the above once you started posting here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg455007#msg455007 you let yourself down - big time

You were given the benefit of the doubt but I now recognise strong women intimidate you. - And so you revert to abuse and aggression https://babe.net/2016/10/25/asked-psychologist-men-put-off-strong-women-884
and that's probably why you feel more comfortable on the blue forum with the boys - do you perceive yourself as an alpha male by any chance?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 08:57:06 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #61 on: April 02, 2018, 08:57:42 PM »
Yes.  I'm a self-educated man, but I am very knowledgeable about the law - more so than some practising solicitors.  In fact, some weeks ago, I was explaining the intricacies of trust law to a solicitor who specialises in private client work, which may be more a commentary on standards in that profession than my cognitive abilities.  Nevertheless, I know things.  I read books.  I have a lot of experience of criminal law and practice and the ways of the courts, including how evidence is collected, the different types of evidence, how witnesses are adduced, etc..  And I've also spent a lot of time in the sort of place where you have time to read lots of books, especially law-related books, among other materials.

If you think I'm wrong (and I may be, I'm not omniscient and don't pretend to be), then we can either leave it or you can consult a practising solicitor, who - I believe - may well confirm that when a defendant or appellant needs to obtain expert evidence, he will (as a rule, exceptions allowing) seek to control the selection of expert(s), the terms of reference and sometimes (depending on the field or discipline involved), the methodology and (if applicable) technology used.  The point is that that is perfectly normal and there is nothing suspicious about it, and any defendant or appellant who is not allowed this freedom by a would-be benefactor may well turn down that help on the basis that the outcome of an undirected expert may be unhelpful or even prejudicial.  The defendant or appellant in any criminal case is perfectly entitled to take this view, there is nothing wrong with it - to the contrary, it would be strange otherwise.  However, at all times, the first duty of the expert is to the court and nothing changes that. 

I accept that sometimes would-be appellants seeking to overturn wrongful convictions avail themselves of the help of third parties who direct the expert evidence themselves, without input from the appellant, but that doesn't change what I have said, which is that a directed expert is the normal practice, provided that at all times the expert retains his autonomy and independence as an expert and fulfils his overriding duty to justice. 

In other words, and to put it plainly - he must follow the instructions of the defendant in terms of what he is looking for and (sometimes, if the field or discipline of the expert makes this appropriate) how and in what manner he looks for it, but he can't fabricate evidence or findings, or produce misleading findings or in any way lie, exaggerate or mislead the court about material matters.  Nor can he overstep his conclusions without making it clear that he is only proffering an opinion.  Nor should be misrepresent his expertise.

I hope that explains it fully.

Forensic scientists are in the business of selling their expertise to whoever funds it.  They are only restricted by their professional code of conduct eg if I went to a forensic scientist and said name your price this is the outcome I'm looking for hopefully 99.9% would tell me to do one.  It would be pretty futile anyway as others eg prosecutors would soon knock anything of its perch that's not capable of withstanding scrutiny.   

Having exchanged correspondence with JB I have found his case knowledge poor and in some respects I think he's deluded.  The same applies to those around him eg CT however well intentioned.  The lawyers involved to date have an appalling track record.  So why would I hand over my IP and cash to these people?  I might just as well gather the evidence and discuss how best to use it with others I have some confidence in. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #62 on: April 02, 2018, 09:37:14 PM »
Please bear in mind that I can't know what is behind what people post.  This is a decontextualised medium.  That being so, we must ask: what is the point of the above post?  What's the relevance of it?  This poster has a very long record of inflammatory postings on two different forums related to the Bamber case, to the extent that on the blue forum it would appear there is an entire thread dedicated to discussing her behaviour.  She has also been warned repeatedly on here and ignores those warnings and thereby disrespects the moderators.

I am asked to report incidents to the moderators of this Forum, but that then leads to this behaviour being buried and deleted.  I'd prefer her posts stay up and to highlight them, so that people can see for themselves the tactics used by dogmatic and emotionally-driven people.  This poster provides us with an interesting case study in the genre.  She is rather obsessed with the Bamber case and psychopaths.  She is convinced of his guilt, as if it were a singular fact, and will brook no gainsayers. 

To recap, I am asked by a moderator of this Forum to explain the basis of my knowledge of the legal system, and I explain it and indeed go further in an effort to help my questioner.  My post was therefore relevant, at least to that post if not the thread generally, and it was civil and - I think - knowledgeable to some degree.  Agree or disagree with me about the substance of what I said, that's fine.

Moving forward, in so far as I may post here from time-to-time, I should like to keep the discussion on all aspects of the Bamber case rational, civil and relevant, but I will defend myself against people, like the individual above, who clearly harbour an agenda and try to take discussions off-course with inanities.

I think Stephanie's ref to smug and insufferable were ref to your description of us on the so-called Blue forum. 

Many of the members here have been banned from the Blue forum including myself and the owner of this forum. 

I have recently agreed with Stephanie we will draw a line under what has gone and move on.  It seems from your last para you wish to do the same.  So we're all signed up. 

Stephanie's recent personal experience of her late husband's case no doubt causes her to look at JB's case from a different angle.  Stephanie believed her late husband's claims of innocence.  As I understand it many experts and lawyers were also sympathetic to his cause including high profile lawyers like Sir Keir Starmer.   

As far as moderating the forum goes we only take action when the rules on the homepage are broken.  We don't take action on the basis one poster doesn't like the post content or style of another.  If we did there would be no one left!  If you experience any problems rather than posting about it on the open forum I would ask you either report the post using the report to moderator function or send me a pm referring me to the offending posts. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2018, 10:28:30 AM »
I have to say, one or two people over on that 'blue' forum are off their heads.  So much so, I'm starting to wonder if they've been tapping Bamber for illicit substances.

On a serious note, Bamber does need to be realistic in the arguments he puts forward.  And, as I've tried to explain to the people on 'blue', the arguments put forward to the CCRC (and, by extension, to the appellate judges), have to challenge his murder conviction, not exercise vendettas.

David's really a newer version of Mike,  with his theories.

The main difference is Mike just posts about the case to himself on his own threads. David focuses on trying to undermine guilters with images & 'gish gash' posts.  He also used to quote other posters 5 year old posts. Confident his own quiet stance change would not be discovered.

Offline adam

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2018, 11:25:16 AM »
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.

I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.

So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.

Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !

Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 11:31:47 AM by adam »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2018, 12:11:44 PM »
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.

I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.

So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.

Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !

Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.

Trudi visited JB in prison. 

Supporters will have their own reasons for supporting JB. 

My reasons for supporting JB are connected with my psychology course particularly attachment theory and June's depression circa 1959 and its effect on SC.  Also adoption and reunions.  We know SC was reunited with her birth mother a few weeks before the tragedy.  Around the time I read about JB's 2011/12 CCRC app I read about the case of Rachel James which to my mind had some similarities with SC's case.   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2018, 12:24:24 PM »
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.

I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.

So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.

Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !

Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.

http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/characteristics-of-a-sociopath.html
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2018, 12:34:30 PM »
One thing I've noticed is supporters are extremely determined. Even former supporters who changed stance to guilty strongly resisted for a long time.

I am not sure why as none of these people knew Bamber before the massacre. Virtually none have met Bamber since as he's a category 'A' prisoner. Trudie & Mat have spoken to him on the phone.

So it can't be Bamber personally persuading them he's innocent. Although he does write letters to people. Supporters simply ignore the incriminating evidence & come up with their own theories.

Yesterday 'Mad'Jackie again said Julie's evidence is not true because she identified the twins ? Ignoring the huge disadvantages Julie would have in trying to incriminate Bamber by herself. While David yesterday again said the relatives received a letter from Scotland & then somehow persuaded Julie a man called Macdonald committed the massacre !

Bamber dropped Mike years ago & David's attempt to get friendly with an infamous criminal was instantly shut down by Bamber. But they still continually post their own theories.

This vid is only a few minutes long but may answers some of your question Adam?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KHdMYbkrQ-0
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline ActualMat

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2018, 09:03:06 PM »
Speaking of Bamber supporters, the blue forums latest mad man, Nigel, is currently posting how he would like to Kill Anne and David and how he looks forward to the murder trial.

He's been a crank since day one. I don't know why so many of them pretended he was a genuine supporter and played along. Desperate.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2018, 09:13:38 PM »
Speaking of Bamber supporters, the blue forums latest mad man, Nigel, is currently posting how he would like to Kill Anne and David and how he looks forward to the murder trial.

He's been a crank since day one. I don't know why so many of them pretended he was a genuine supporter and played along. Desperate.

He reminds me of one of Charles Manson's deciples. I can see the headlines now - 'Cult leader Jeremy Bamber

You've missed out JM - he threatened all 3 of them

It's not just Bamber who needs a check up from the neck up

What's "red frame white light?"
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 09:33:41 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline adam

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2018, 09:55:08 PM »
At first I thought Mike had created a new pretend poster.   So he can pretend someone agrees with him. Now I am not so sure & Nigel might actually be a real person.

With Lookout gone, the remaining posters are Mike, David, Nugs & Nigel. I look forward to some good discussion.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2018, 10:00:19 PM »
At first I thought Mike had created a new pretend poster.   So he can pretend someone agrees with him. Now I am not so sure & Nigel might actually be a real person.

With Lookout gone, the remaining posters are Mike, David, Nugs & Nigel. I look forward to some good discussion.

Nige has probably just got off the phone from Bamber
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline ActualMat

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2018, 10:08:34 PM »

What's "red frame white light?"

Got no idea, never heard that before.

Offline adam

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2018, 10:16:56 PM »
David was very lucky that the moderators on Blue allowed him to goad with his images, 'gish gash' posts & quote other people's 5 year old posts. Perhaps because he had brown nosed a moderator early on to get his 'forensic evidence breakthrough' praised.

If no one posts on there, at least these will stop.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?
« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2018, 11:04:49 PM »
I bet Jerry's security files have an office of there own  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5459.0
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation