Author Topic: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?  (Read 110323 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #240 on: March 08, 2014, 05:34:06 PM »
Paedophilia isn't limited to men.

The UK media would have us believe it is.
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #241 on: March 08, 2014, 05:42:38 PM »
I suspect that you know that my list may be VERY relevant and that is why you are kicking up such a fuss about it, instead of debating it.

Debating what? The fact terrible crimes occur in every single country? Your list isn't relevant, it's propaganda. You attempt to claim some or all these crimes are the work of one person or one secret organisation (secret to all but you that is), and that's the kind of 'research' that's more at home on a forum like David Icke's really. They love international conspiracies there just as much as you do.

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #242 on: March 08, 2014, 05:48:01 PM »
You notice I didn't use the word paedophile, but you did?

That kind of makes my point for me.

It's an unhealthy obsession.

I didn't come to the same conclusion as you about Ferryman's comment - he didn't say that he believed that all missing children were taken by paedophiles (if that is how you understood it): he just pointed out that the "haven for paedo" headline was about laxer control of paedos in Portugal (but that would no doubt be true of quite a few countries without a sex offender register).

My understanding of his comment is that such a headline could be perceived as xenophobic and thus create a defensive attitude towards missing children. If I've misunderstood his comment, I'm sure he'll correct me.


Estuarine

  • Guest
Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #243 on: March 08, 2014, 05:59:18 PM »
This thread seems to have drifted well off course. It could do with a decent navigator.
Now in the 15th and 16th centuries the Portuguese were dab hands at that, Dias, da Gama, Magellan and the rest of the boys in the band.
Oh gosh we can't have that!

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #244 on: March 08, 2014, 06:00:51 PM »
Back to the title of the thread... unless there are statistics on missing children, found and still missing, with explanations, how can anyone come to any conclusion?

How many countries have detailed statistics on this issue? Where appropriate IT is available, it may be simplifying police paperwork, but since when? If some countries don't have a missing child protocol in place, how are the police supposed to record details / circumstances in a uniform fashion?

Offline sadie

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #245 on: March 08, 2014, 06:20:52 PM »
Back to the title of the thread... unless there are statistics on missing children, found and still missing, with explanations, how can anyone come to any conclusion?

How many countries have detailed statistics on this issue? Where appropriate IT is available, it may be simplifying police paperwork, but since when? If some countries don't have a missing child protocol in place, how are the police supposed to record details / circumstances in a uniform fashion?
They dont Carana .  That is the trouble.  Loads were left off the PT PJ list.  Maybe they have been added now, I dunno.  Haven't really delved into it for about 4 years now and things change.

I do know that Cristavao when he was president of the new PT Organisation for Missing Childrens, refused to include Madeleine, cos he allegedly said that she had died in the apartment, later changed to the parents were being investigated.

I believe that she now is on the list.  Someone saw sense and put that right.

Offline John

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #246 on: March 08, 2014, 06:28:35 PM »
Sadie.  With due respect and with the best will in the world, please do not refer to cases as abductions since they are not confirmed as such.

They are unexplained disappearances.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #247 on: March 08, 2014, 06:32:09 PM »


The above post has been edited in terms of the forum policy on publishing factual information.  If anyone disagrees with any of the information included please comment below.

"On the internet I read on a forum that the son of an elite had been picked up by the PJ  in the north [and ?charged?]  but released with a warning.  That was whitewashed out after I mentioned it on forum.  A friend, Catkins, also saw another mention in a somewhat similar vein.  She can no longer find her reference either, IIRC."


Seriously? "On the internet I read....."



I object in the strongest terms possible. Unless we can all start spewing garbage we've read on other forums?

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #248 on: March 08, 2014, 06:39:24 PM »
Incidentally, the question put to Gerry McCann as to whether or not he was the biological father of Madeleine (following IVF I believe) was NOT an insult to Gerry, it was a perfectly valid investigative question in order to eliminate one possibility.

Yes, but why was this leaked to the press as a fact that he wasn't?

CPN

  • Guest
Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #249 on: March 08, 2014, 06:46:10 PM »
Yes, but why was this leaked to the press as a fact that he wasn't?

I didn't know it had, Carana ( a) been leaked to the press and b) been stated that he wasn't). I just understood that it was a question that had been asked and the McCanns were upset about it.   I was just saying that, to me, it was a natural question that would be asked to eliminate one possibility. 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 06:48:20 PM by CPN »

Offline sadie

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #250 on: March 08, 2014, 06:49:01 PM »
"On the internet I read on a forum that the son of an elite had been picked up by the PJ  in the north [and ?charged?]  but released with a warning.  That was whitewashed out after I mentioned it on forum.  A friend, Catkins, also saw another mention in a somewhat similar vein.  She can no longer find her reference either, IIRC."


Seriously? "On the internet I read....


I object in the strongest terms possible. Unless we can all start spewing garbage we've read on other forums?

So you want that whitewashed out, do you Cariad.  How interesting



I have made it clear where I found it.  People can believe it or not.  That is their perogative.

BUT what is even more interesting to me, is the way that information previously seen on the internet is being changed or whitewashed out quite regularly.

The internet is  a dangerous place.  In the wrong hands, information can be changed.  Innocent people can be made guilty because of this



It reminds me of Pat Brown.  How she maintained that the bedroom window was so well illuminated and so overlooked, when it had all been fixed up before hand.  Trees galore had been cut down and a massive light fixed where there had been no light before.... ?just to give her that photo?  ......... I wonder

That was NOT true at the time of the abduction, but the information was changed



The internet is a dangerous place.




Estuarine

  • Guest
Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #251 on: March 08, 2014, 07:02:14 PM »
Holy frijoles! The place is tapped [and not as in telephones]. I'm off .

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #252 on: March 08, 2014, 07:09:54 PM »
I didn't know it had, Carana ( a) been leaked to the press and b) been stated that he wasn't). I just understood that it was a question that had been asked and the McCanns were upset about it.   I was just saying that, to me, it was a natural question that would be asked to eliminate one possibility.

I agree that it would have been a normal issue to investigate, but it could have been done quietly... and not suddenly sprung in the press as a "revelation" - which it wasn't, it was just another myth, but which must have been quite hurtful to discover.



24Horas 12.10.07

PJ believes that the sperm donor was in England on May 3
Maddie's real father was identified

Madeleine's real father was identified in England by the British police, at the Policia Judiciaria's request, 24Horas could discover with senior sources at the PJ. The sperm donor who made it possible for Madeleine to be conceived, was not interrogated because authorities could confirm that he was in Englandon the date when the child disappeared, on May 3. According to our sources, Maddie's biological father had nothing to do with the disappearance of the child - as 24Horas had reported yesterday. PJ knows he is from Birmingham but they don't know the location or even his address, as it was not necessary, senior sources at the Judiciaria have advanced.

But PJ only rested when they dismissed this lead.

Gerry is the twins' father

Curiously, it is in the Birmingham area that the Forensic Science Lab is located, at which the DNA tests on the biological residues collected from the apartment and from the McCanns' rental car were performed.

PJ knows that Gerry McCann is not Maddie's biological father, as 24Horas reported yesterday and re-confirmed with several responsible sources at the Policia Judiciaria and at the National Institute for Forensic Medicine (NIFM).

"Gerry McCann was not the sperm donor for Maddie. He was the donor for the twins. But it's possible that Gerry himself doesn't know he is not the biological father. There may have been a switch at the laboratory", a source at the NIFM told 24Horas.

Pinto da Costa, a former president of the Forensic Medicine Institute in Oporto, sustains the explanation, without specifying the Maddie case. "There have been several cases when the husband was not the donor once, and was the donor on other occasions. It can happen that, at a certain moment of one's life, the person has his fertilizing capacity diminished for several reasons, like exhaustion or extreme stress".

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic2318.html


This was, of course, repeated all over the press.

And led to this:

'I AM Madeleine's dad': Gerry McCann rejects claims sperm donor was used for IVF

Gerry McCann has been forced to issue an extraordinary statement insisting that Madeleine is his natural daughter.

The heart consultant said he had acted to counter 'lies and absolute fabrication' in the Portuguese press.

According to 24 Horas, Madeleine, who was conceived using IVF, was the child of his wife, Kate, and an unnamed sperm donor.

The newspaper claimed that the four-yearold's parentage meant her DNA could not be confused with that of two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie.

Scroll down for more ...

{2}

{R}

The supposed revelation would prove that bodily fluids found in the family's hire car had come from Madeleine and not from her brother or sister, the tabloid said.

Portuguese police are seeking evidence that the girl's body was transported in the Renault Scenic, which was hired 25 days after she disappeared.

The sperm donor story was dismissed as 'unwarranted, unsubstantiated and totally inaccurate speculation' by the family's spokesman Clarence Mitchell.

In a strongly worded statement agreed by the couple and their lawyers, he said: 'For the record Gerry McCann is the biological father of his daughter Madeleine.

"A newspaper report in the 24 Horas newspaper suggesting otherwise is nothing short of lies. It is indeed an absolute fabrication."

Scroll down for more ...

{7}

Mr Mitchell said the family's legal team was monitoring media coverage and would not hesitate to take action 'at the appropriate stage' in Portugal or Britain.

The newspaper - one of Portugal's most popular - claimed police there were certain Madeleine was not Mr McCann's child.

{3}

It claimed investigations in Britain had uncovered her biological father's identity.

The report caused 'complete horror and total distress' within the family, a friend said.

The McCanns were particularly upset that the latest claim came days after Portugal's most senior policeman vowed to clamp down on the constant smears and leaks from inside the Madeleine investigation.

Mr Mitchell said: "We have up to a year to sue and we will do. Gerry and Kate want to concentrate on the case involving Madeleine and don't want to do anything that may compromise that while they are official suspects.

"But they plan to sue 24 Horas and any other media outlets that print these claims as soon as the official suspect status is lifted."

Mr McCann's mother Eileen, 67, from Glasgow, said: 'To say Gerry is not Madeleine's natural father is utterly ridiculous.

"Madeleine is my natural granddaughter. Her eyes and nose are the same as mine.

"These allegations are totally unfounded. They are pure speculation and a load of nonsense. Whatever will the Portuguese papers make up next?"

Jill Renwick, a close friend of the family, described the report as "absolute rubbish". She said: "Gerry is Madeleine's biological father. I know for a fact there was no donor sperm.

"Whoever is coming out with these claims is really clutching at straws. It is corrupt."

The McCanns underwent IVF treatment near their Leicestershire home before Madeleine was conceived. They had further IVF treatment to conceive their twins while they were living in Amsterdam.

A friend said the 24 Horas report was published without any contact with the family.

The newspaper has run a series of articles this week which have all strongly denied by the McCanns.

Its co- editor, Luis Fontes, insisted he stood by the sperm donor story.

He said it was confirmed by the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, which has carried out analysis on samples taken from the McCanns' apartment and hire car.

The FSS denied it had made any comment on the case.

Mr Fontes said he was not aware of any threat of legal action from the McCanns over the article and added: "It is absolutely true. Our sources are rock solid."

He added: "If they [the McCanns] think they can sue us, bring it on."

Friends also denied claims in another Portuguese newspaper, Diario de Noticias, which said Mrs McCann, a 39-year-old GP, flew into a fit of rage after she was made a suspect in the case.

She was said to have broken crockery, pictures and "anything she could get her hands on" in the couple's hired villa in Praia da Luz.

Madeleine went missing from the Algarve resort on May 3.

Meanwhile, Mr McCann, 39, said he was encouraged by comments from Portugal's most senior detective, Alipio Ribeiro, who said the couple were still suspects but that police would consider other theories.

Forensic test results in the case will be given to police next week, it emerged yesterday.

The McCanns have been warned they could be asked to return to Portugal for further questioning.

The results are expected to be handed over on Monday but there could be further delays because two Portuguese government ministries will see them before they are passed on to the police.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-487063/I-AM-Madeleines-dad-Gerry-McCann-rejects-claims-sperm-donor-used-IVF.html#ixzz2vOq5k16K
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #253 on: March 08, 2014, 07:47:50 PM »
So you want that whitewashed out, do you Cariad.  How interesting



I have made it clear where I found it.  People can believe it or not.  That is their perogative.

BUT what is even more interesting to me, is the way that information previously seen on the internet is being changed or whitewashed out quite regularly.

The internet is  a dangerous place.  In the wrong hands, information can be changed.  Innocent people can be made guilty because of this



It reminds me of Pat Brown.  How she maintained that the bedroom window was so well illuminated and so overlooked, when it had all been fixed up before hand.  Trees galore had been cut down and a massive light fixed where there had been no light before.... ?just to give her that photo?  ......... I wonder

That was NOT true at the time of the abduction, but the information was changed



The internet is a dangerous place.

David Icke is your friend @)(++(*

He won't whitewash your theories.

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #254 on: March 08, 2014, 07:49:22 PM »
Seriously though Sadie. You really think Pat got the PdL authorities to install lights and chop down trees? >@@(*&)