Did Nevill Sustain The Four Gunshot Wounds Upstairs On The Landing And Stairs?

[Holly Goodhead]

PC Woodcock identified the casing on the landing before it appears any officer stepped there which seems to rule out the theory this casing arrived there on the sole of an officers boot.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249

[Myster]

PC Woodcock identified the casing on the landing before it appears any officer stepped there which seems to rule out the theory this casing arrived there on the sole of an officers boot.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249

So if it was the fourth missing kitchen casing, then JB carried it up on his own shoe/boot sole (doubtful) or it was stovepipe jammed in the rifle and released by same; or it was one of two from the final bullets to be fired at June's head. I still go for either of the last two theories. Unless another TFU member preceded PC Woodcock up the stairs.

[scipio_usmc]

PC Woodcock identified the casing on the landing before it appears any officer stepped there which seems to rule out the theory this casing arrived there on the sole of an officers boot.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249

Other police such as Collins preceded Woodcock.  Thus it is still possible that police did it not Jeremy. Mind you Woodcock stayed there while the rest of the raid team left the scene.  He could have seen it at a later time and incorrectly thought he saw it when he was going up the initial time.

[Holly Goodhead]

Other police such as Collins preceded Woodcock.  Thus it is still possible that police did it not Jeremy. Mind you Woodcock stayed there while the rest of the raid team left the scene.  He could have seen it at a later time and incorrectly thought he saw it when he was going up the initial time.

Like much of the paperwork it is somewhat ambiguous or at least that's how I find it!  PC Collins states he mirrored up the stairs and identified June.  Members then proceeded up the stairs and entered the main bedroom.  At this time PC Woodcock states he observed a casing on the landing:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249

Yes if JB was the perp he could have carried it on the sole of his shoe. 

[Myster]

Yes if JB was the perp he could have carried it on the sole of his shoe. 

If he wore Grensons brogues... no chance, they're smooth-bottomed.

[Holly Goodhead]

If he wore Grensons brogues... no chance, they're smooth-bottomed.

I heard he had a penchant for smooth-bottoms so maybe 

[scipio_usmc]

Like much of the paperwork it is somewhat ambiguous or at least that's how I find it!  PC Collins states he mirrored up the stairs and identified June.  Members then proceeded up the stairs and entered the main bedroom.  At this time PC Woodcock states he observed a casing on the landing:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=249

Yes if JB was the perp he could have carried it on the sole of his shoe.

He was on the landing where the casing was found when he saw June. that means he was there before Woodcock. We will never know if it stuck to Jeremy's shoe or a cop there is simply no way to ever figure it out. All we know for sure is it came from the kitchen and someone transported it there.

[Holly Goodhead]

He was on the landing where the casing was found when he saw June. that means he was there before Woodcock. We will never know if it stuck to Jeremy's shoe or a cop there is simply no way to ever figure it out. All we know for sure is it came from the kitchen and someone transported it there.

We don't know for sure.  It's simply a theory.

[rotti]

hi everyone iam back got fed up with the grandchildren ,and got banned from the blue forum by a very drunk mike tesko.have made some changes to my debating skills,no more 'masters'

[Myster]

hi everyone iam back got fed up with the grandchildren ,and got banned from the blue forum by a very drunk mike tesko.have made some changes to my debating skills,no more 'masters'

Hello rotti... serves you right for winding him up!

As you already know, you won't find much opposition here. I can count them on the fingers of one finger.

[puglove]

hi everyone iam back got fed up with the grandchildren ,and got banned from the blue forum by a very drunk mike tesko.have made some changes to my debating skills,no more 'masters'

Ho ho!! Mike's always either drunk, on the toilet, or drunk on the toilet. He's as mad as a sugarpuff. He'll probably unban you, then call you a c*** and a donkey turd. Be grateful that you don't live next door to him, your house would look like Coventry after a heavy night on the doodlebugs.

[rotti]

Ho ho!! Mike's always either drunk, on the toilet, or drunk on the toilet. He's as mad as a sugarpuff. He'll probably unban you, then call you a c*** and a donkey turd. Be grateful that you don't live next door to him, your house would look like Coventry after a heavy night on the doodlebugs.

spot on pugs

[Holly Goodhead]

I've been meaning to get back to you on this but with Christmas and New Yr have been quite busy. 

You seem to be implying that the lip and jaw gun shot wound (gsw) NB sustained entered via his side and yet the tracts of the wounds and location of the bullets show that the following were injured which is difficult to reconcile if the shots entered sideways unless the two bullets took a sharp turn:

- cervical musculature
- cervical vertebra
- laryngeal
- submandibular

My interpretation is that where Dr Vanezis refers to "left side of the lower lip" and "left lower jaw" this in no way indicates the shots entered sideways.  They were face on. 

The same applies to the shoulder and elbow shot.  If you follow the tract wounds and final resting place of the bullet the wounds are to the back of his left shoulder and elbow.  I dont believe they entered sideways.

I recently made available new material, or certainly new to me, by way of trial testimony from the following:

- Malcolm Fletcher
- John Hayward
- Glynis Howard
- Prof Knight
- Dr Vanezis

They are currently sitting in a thread but I'm going to pm Admin and ask for them to be uploaded to the relevant sections of the library: forensics and pathology.  Meanwhile if anyone wants a browse some are contained in the following thread attached to posts #35, 36 and 37.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7845.msg378135#msg378135

Has anyone read these previously?

Re the above post I am now able to provide confirmation by way of Dr Vanezis' trial testimony that NB's lip and jaw gsw's were not to his side profile but to the front of his face/lip and jaw ie went straight on and backwards.

I had to suffer the embarrassment of letting my son know of my ongoing interest in JB's case by seeking his help in copying scanned docs as per the format of the attachment.  I wrote it down as he explained it and I was ok first time but this one has ended up with all the surrounding bits copied!  In any event the fact that I have mastered this is in itself a miracle!

[scipio_usmc]

This is saying the entrance wounds were not on the side of the face. The trajectory of the wounds was not straight front to back but relatively straight merely.  The bullets traveled down and slightly towards the right.  They were not that steep an angle but still were left to right and down.     

If someone is standing at the foot of the bed and is aiming the gun at Nevill as he sit up then you get the angle of the shots. The angle of the shots can't be achieved while Nevill is standing unless someone is at a higher elevation.   


Here are the locations of the entrance wounds:


Jaw wound:

Path of bullets: were slightly to the right and down ending up by the third vertebrae

This shows the path and while it might look steep the trajectory is actually not that steep. The distance is not that great.



If Nevill were standing then the trajectory would have been up instead of down.  Likewise is Nevill had been lying down the trajectory would be up instead of down. He had to be sitting up in bed when he was shot.

The locations of the spent casings is consistent with him being shot while seated in bed.

Aside from the casings not being consistent with him being shot while walking up the stairs (the casings eject to the right of the weapon so would end up at the bottom of the stairs) the angle of the shots is not consistent.
If Nevill were on the stairs the further down he is the more steep the angle of a shot would be. He would have to be near the top of the stairs with the weapon close to his face to achieve the angle.  He most certainly would not have continued walking up to the bedroom if the killer just shot him 2 times in the face.  Yet he was shot 2 other times in the bedroom- one wound that grazed him while the other broke his arm. The location of the casings and left side being hit are all consistent with him being shot while on his side of the bed.

June is shot several times, Nevill wakes up and sits up.  He is then shot 2 times in the face.  He then turns to get out of bed exposing the left side of his body to the shooter and begins to rise.  The killer shoots him in the arm and another grazes his arm. That is what the evidence supports happening.