How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?

[Angelo222]

Really do feel we've isolated the crunchy bits that lack explanation.  I knew I was out of order. I'm being more careful now.

I appreciate your intentions were honourable but at least you have aired them.

[Robittybob1]

I appreciate your intentions were honourable but at least you have aired them.

I thank you for that period of grace  (to run naked among your guests, (Sadie will understand that one)).

[Robittybob1]

You should have realised by now Robbie that this is a fact based forum.  Your insistence that two little girls went missing the night Maddie disappeared or that the whole thing started out as a prank are frankly without any basis whatsoever.  It's all very well thinking outside the box but there are some theories which could never stand scrutiny.

I will never give up on searching for the evidence for the other girl, and I'm sure some of the others are beginning to see the need for it too, for it is impossible to explain how Amy Tierney ends up in Kate's apartment even before she has signalled an alert if there isn't another incident other than to say she is lying.  But when you look at the points she raises it is  as if she is assisting Kate in coming to the decision Madeleine has been taken. 
This is a fact that no one can explain without saying Amy is otherwise lying. Fact based forums should demand proof of that but it seems to be accepted without true investigation of how such an event could naturally occur.

I am asking the forum to explain how Amy Tierney saw the shutters up and the window open and concluded that Madeleine had been taken and how did she get there in time to do that without being rung by anyone.  If the only answer is "she is lying" we need proof of that too. It is a fact based forum after all.

[pathfinder73]

Amy most likely saw that the shutter was open because that was the crime scene when the police arrived.

[Robittybob1]

Amy most likely saw that the shutter was open because that was the crime scene when the police arrived.

Yes that is neither open or closed.  Is it partially down or is it part way up?  It certainly isn't up enough for a kid to fall out of the window or for a burglar to escape.  So this is the result of Gerry's attempt at lowering the shutters or Dianne Webster playing around with the shutters. The worst preserved crime scene they had known.

[Eleanor]

Any further comments containing accusations of Lying will be deleted In Full.

[Robittybob1]

Any further comments containing accusations of Lying will be deleted In Full.

That is rather funny.  That is going to make discussions really restricted but I'll try.

[pathfinder73]

Yes that is neither open or closed.  Is it partially down or is it part way up?  It certainly isn't up enough for a kid to fall out of the window or for a burglar to escape.  So this is the result of Gerry's attempt at lowering the shutters or Dianne Webster playing around with the shutters. The worst preserved crime scene they had known.

It is not closed. It was opened by DW.

"I went through into the room where err where Madeleine was sleeping and err and she said you know, somebody, you know, she’s been taken because she said that the shutters and that had been open, the window open."

4078    “Okay, the other thing was, you mentioned that when you went back into Kate and Gerry’s apartment immediately after Madeleine had gone missing, and I know you didn’t specify a time, and you went into the room and I think you made a comment that Kate had spoken to you about the shutters being, the window being open.”

 Reply    “Yeah the shutters being up and the window open, yeah.”
 
 4078    “Did you see that window at the time?”

 Reply    “No I, my recollection is that err I think the shutter had been let back down again or err I don’t, I don’t recall the window being open at the time I went so whether they’d closed it because obviously it was draughty for the twins but I, I can’t be a hundred percent sure about that.”

 
4078    “It’s all, you know, even at that early stage there wasn’t a lot more that you were able to say. Did you check the blind at Kate’s apartment on the window that obviously the relevant window? Did you go out and check the blind?”

 Reply    “Oh the shutter?”
 
4078    “Yeah, sorry.”

 Reply    “Yeah I mean I can remember going out there and in fact there was me and somebody else, I don’t know who else there was, to see if it could be raised from, from outside, I didn’t spend too long err trying it.”
 
4078    “And were you able to?”

 Reply    “I think, I think I got it up so far but it became sort of err twisted. But everybody was in such a panic really.”

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

Somebody else but I don't know who  &%+((£

[Robittybob1]

I put it to you that the person DW refers to could be Amy Tierney? 

Yeah I mean I can remember going out there and in fact there was me and somebody else, I don’t know who else there was, to see if it could be raised from, from outside, I didn’t spend too long err trying it.”

[pathfinder73]

I put it to you that the person DW refers to could be Amy Tierney?

No she was at the night creche. But I have found a witness of seeing shutters/window open. Funny I thought Gerry had closed them straight away. What a mess LOL  &%+((£

1578 'Did you at any point yourself see the shutters up and the window open''

 Reply 'Yes'.

1578 'When was that''

 Reply 'When, when Fi and Kate were outside, erm you know standing by the shutters, by the window'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

[jassi]

No she was at the night creche. But I have found a witness of seeing shutters/window open. Funny I thought Gerry had closed them straight away. What a mess LOL  &%+((£

1578 'Did you at any point yourself see the shutters up and the window open''

 Reply 'Yes'.

1578 'When was that''

 Reply 'When, when Fi and Kate were outside, erm you know standing by the shutters, by the window'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

I wonder what time that was.
Must have been after DW arrived, as before that Fi would be attending to her own children.

[Eleanor]

That is rather funny.  That is going to make discussions really restricted but I'll try.

Not funny at all.  Would you not mind that accusation levelled at you?  I would say that you are largely mistaken.

[G-Unit]

No she was at the night creche. But I have found a witness of seeing shutters/window open. Funny I thought Gerry had closed them straight away. What a mess LOL  &%+((£

1578 'Did you at any point yourself see the shutters up and the window open''

 Reply 'Yes'.

1578 'When was that''

 Reply 'When, when Fi and Kate were outside, erm you know standing by the shutters, by the window'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

In Rachael's first two statements she says Kate told her about the open window and shutters. Then it changes in her rog interview. She says she stayed at the bottom of the steps to 5A while Matt and ROB have a quick look in the garden, then she and Matt go to check on Grace.Then;

Matt went off to search and I went across to Jane's apartment cos she was there with Evie, erm and just told her that Madeleine had gone missing, erm and I must have known at that point that the window was open and the shutter was up, erm cos basically when I told her that and this was in the courtyard,

1578 'What time did you have the conversation with Jane on the, on the evening''
 Reply 'On the night, erm I mean it was probably about ten fifteen, twenty past ten, something like that (inaudible)'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Jane agrees;

 I think it was Rachael that I saw first because she had run back I think to check that Grace was obviously okay.  And then I think Rachael said, you know, she told me what had, you know she said ‘Oh Madeleine’s gone’ or, you know, something along those lines.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

So how did Rachael know about the window and shutters when she hasn't yet spoken to Kate? It seems no-one did actually tell her. Firstly she says Kate and Fiona were standing by the window and she was with them before she went to Jane.

I remember kind of standing near the window with Kate and Fiona,

Or was it Kate, Fiona, Gerry and Dave?

 Kate and Fi and you know Dave and Gerry might have come out of the apartment and sort of been standing around there and talking about this, these shutters being up and the window being open,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

So she didn't go straight to see Jane then, she went out of her apartment, turned right out of the courtyard and right again along the walkway towards the McCann apartment first. Although she says she saw them herself when asked a direct question she resorts to vague hearsay when questioned more closely.

[Alice Purjorick]

Not funny at all.  Would you not mind that accusation levelled at you?  I would say that you are largely mistaken.

Shall we introduce Hillary Clinton's terminology of eight years ago? : to "misspeak". It is much more genteel but far less aggressive whilst conveying the same message...

[Robittybob1]

No she was at the night creche. But I have found a witness of seeing shutters/window open. Funny I thought Gerry had closed them straight away. What a mess LOL  &%+((£

1578 'Did you at any point yourself see the shutters up and the window open''

 Reply 'Yes'.

1578 'When was that''

 Reply 'When, when Fi and Kate were outside, erm you know standing by the shutters, by the window'.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

You have to get her (Amy Tierney) out of the creche and over to the apartment before the window is closed or the shutters are lowered.