Author Topic: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?  (Read 119236 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #870 on: December 20, 2016, 06:00:51 PM »

Hmmm. Dianne Webster 11th May talking about her arrival at the Tapas around 9 pm;

That, at that time, the whole group were at the restaurant. The witness did not recall, but thinks that perhaps Gerald and MATT had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group.
- In this regard, asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
They weren't glued to their seats. So what sort of reasons could there be for Gerry not being in the restaurant for Dianne to notice?  Matt notices Gerry leaving etc so I doubt that he went with Matt.

" but thinks that perhaps Gerald and MATT had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group."  Is hardly a assertion with certainty.  Maybe her memory is playing up?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 06:05:21 PM by Robittybob1 »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline G-Unit

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #871 on: December 20, 2016, 06:30:37 PM »

Hmmm. Dianne Webster 11th May talking about her arrival at the Tapas around 9 pm;

That, at that time, the whole group were at the restaurant. The witness did not recall, but thinks that perhaps Gerald and MATT had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group.
- In this regard, asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

I wonder why the above post was edited? One of life's little mysteries I suppose.

In their first statements both Dianne and Fiona suggested they arrived before 9pm. If Gerry and Matthew were missing as Dianne suggests then Jeremy Wilkins could have seen Gerry quite early in his 8.45 to 9.15 timeband.

It seems strange if he returned to his apartment at 9.30 that he refused to give a more precise time for their chat because it's obvious that he was pretty close to his apartment if he spoke to Gerry outside 5A then went straight back home.

Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #872 on: December 20, 2016, 07:12:19 PM »
I wonder why the above post was edited? One of life's little mysteries I suppose.

In their first statements both Dianne and Fiona suggested they arrived before 9pm. If Gerry and Matthew were missing as Dianne suggests then Jeremy Wilkins could have seen Gerry quite early in his 8.45 to 9.15 timeband.

It seems strange if he returned to his apartment at 9.30 that he refused to give a more precise time for their chat because it's obvious that he was pretty close to his apartment if he spoke to Gerry outside 5A then went straight back home.

And it only makes it worse the earlier he claims that he could have been talking to Gerry.  Maybe he did spend a lot of time in the vicinity of the apartment, but talking to Gerry in his words only covers a 3-4 minute period.
I always think if Jez was really concerned about Madeleine what was he going to think when Matt and Gerry and then Matt/Russell are seen coming and going from the apartment.  His concern levels might have risen through the roof.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline jassi

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #873 on: December 20, 2016, 07:26:47 PM »
And it only makes it worse the earlier he claims that he could have been talking to Gerry.  Maybe he did spend a lot of time in the vicinity of the apartment, but talking to Gerry in his words only covers a 3-4 minute period.
I always think if Jez was really concerned about Madeleine what was he going to think when Matt and Gerry and then Matt/Russell are seen coming and going from the apartment.  His concern levels might have risen through the roof.


Sorry, where does this 'concern' come from?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #874 on: December 20, 2016, 07:38:16 PM »

Sorry, where does this 'concern' come from?
Comes from a parent being concerned whether other parents are dealing with child safety adequately.  OK it is proactive thinking but Jez appears to disagree with Gerry's method of looking after the children at night.  Once he knows those kids are in danger does he do anything to prevent an issue?  Does he do a type of neighbourhood watch?  IMO he is doing that.
Read his statement in conjunction with the article written by Bridget https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
You will sense they were very concerned.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 07:41:40 PM by Robittybob1 »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline jassi

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #875 on: December 20, 2016, 07:49:44 PM »
Comes from a parent being concerned whether other parents are dealing with child safety adequately.  OK it is proactive thinking but Jez appears to disagree with Gerry's method of looking after the children at night.  Once he knows those kids are in danger does he do anything to prevent an issue?  Does he do a type of neighbourhood watch?  IMO he is doing that.
Read his statement in conjunction with the article written by Bridget https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
You will sense they were very concerned.

Hardly a neighbourhood watch. He goes back to his apartment shortly after his intense talk with Gerry and then goes to bed
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #876 on: December 20, 2016, 07:54:37 PM »
Hardly a neighbourhood watch. He goes back to his apartment shortly after his intense talk with Gerry and then goes to bed
That is an unsupported alibi.  At best it is a weak alibi if we accept it was also covered in a joint statement.
Bridget is not interviewed separately about what time he arrives home and what Jez says about what he got up to.
If you read all the articles published that quote Bridget there seems to be unaccounted for variations which have the hallmark of covering up issues re the of timing and the alibi.
There is a move to make the Jez/Gerry conversation last up to 15 minutes.
And the time that Matt comes around to their apartment changes from 1:00 AM to a more believable 1:30 AM.
There is also the issue of how the Wilkins got the photo of Madeleine so early that has not yet been covered.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 08:02:11 PM by Robittybob1 »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline G-Unit

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #877 on: December 20, 2016, 08:05:10 PM »
They weren't glued to their seats. So what sort of reasons could there be for Gerry not being in the restaurant for Dianne to notice?  Matt notices Gerry leaving etc so I doubt that he went with Matt.

" but thinks that perhaps Gerald and MATT had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group."  Is hardly a assertion with certainty.  Maybe her memory is playing up?

Her testimony is as valid as anyone else's. There's no evidence she had memory problems.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #878 on: December 20, 2016, 08:10:14 PM »
Her testimony is as valid as anyone else's. There's no evidence she had memory problems.

Maybe as some have called it a "selective memory issue".  It is all opinion in the end for we can't ever determine what someone saw and what they remember.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #879 on: December 20, 2016, 08:41:10 PM »
Hardly a neighbourhood watch. He goes back to his apartment shortly after his intense talk with Gerry and then goes to bed
This bit from Matt's rogatory is interesting:
"4078 'What about in the evenings when you were going back to check on Grace, do you recall some of the other people around''
Reply 'No, there'd be rarely, rarely anybody about, maybe an occasional one person. Erm, tut, was he, was it the chap, whose name I can't remember, he had a child who was willing to be part of, or was being suggested for the interview, Jeremy, Jeremy or somebody''
 
00.43.49 4078 'Yeah'.
Reply 'Who had a child and I think I'd seen him around because I think their child didn't sleep particularly well and he may have been pushing or he might have been collecting from cr'he, but what day or what time, I don't really remember'.
 
4078 'How did you come to know Jeremy''
Reply 'It was a couple that we spoke to while we were on, Jeremy I think I spoke to on the coach, either on the coach or we already said something, you know, something when we were checking in, sort of that'd have been four o'clock in the morning or whenever it was, and there was, so I think I spoke to him on the coach or on the plane on the way over, definitely on the coach or on the plane on the way over, and sort of said hi every now and again, but didn't, erm, you know anything more than that really'.
 
4078 'And did you speak to him during the holiday''
Reply 'Yeah, just on odd occasions'."

So it is possible Matt did bump into him on the Thursday.
 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 03:43:21 AM by Robittybob1 »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #880 on: December 20, 2016, 09:49:55 PM »
I wonder why the above post was edited? One of life's little mysteries I suppose.

In their first statements both Dianne and Fiona suggested they arrived before 9pm. If Gerry and Matthew were missing as Dianne suggests then Jeremy Wilkins could have seen Gerry quite early in his 8.45 to 9.15 timeband.

It seems strange if he returned to his apartment at 9.30 that he refused to give a more precise time for their chat because it's obvious that he was pretty close to his apartment if he spoke to Gerry outside 5A then went straight back home.


It is in the air of late. It must be due to the weather.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #881 on: December 20, 2016, 09:52:03 PM »
Can anyone tell me, preferably in words of one syllable, why Jez would need an alibi?
Was he ever a suspect or charged with anything ?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #882 on: December 20, 2016, 10:35:11 PM »
Can anyone tell me, preferably in words of one syllable, why Jez would need an alibi?
Was he ever a suspect or charged with anything ?
One syllable words - OK he needs it due to be ing near the scene of crime.

"At the end of June, the first cloud appeared. A Portuguese journalist called Jes's mobile (he had left his number with the Portuguese police). The journalist, who was writing for a magazine called Sol, called Jes incessantly. We both work in television and cannot claim to be green about the media, but this was a new experience. Jes learned this the hard way. Torn between politeness and wanting to get the journalist off the line without actually saying anything, he had to put the phone down, but he had already said too much. Her article pitched the recollections of "Jeremy Wilkins, television producer" against those of the "Tapas Nine", the group of friends, including the McCanns, whom we had nicknamed the Doctors. The piece was published at the end of June. Throughout July, Sol's testimony meant Jes became incorporated into all the Madeleine chronologies. More clouds began to gather - this time above our house.

In August, the doorbell rang. The man was from the Daily Mail. He asked if Jes was in (he wasn't). After he left I spent an anxious evening analysing what I had said, weighing up the possible consequences. The Sol article had brought the Daily Mail; what would happen next? Two days later, the Mail came for Jes again. This time they had computer printout pictures of a bald, heavy-set man seen lurking in some Praia da Luz holiday snaps. The chatroom implication was that the man was Madeleine's abductor. There was talk on the web, the reporter insinuated, that this man might be Jes. I laughed at the ridiculousness of it all and then realised he was serious. I looked at the pictures, and it wasn't Jes.

Advertisement

Once, Jes's father looked him up on the internet and found that "Jeremy Wilkins, television producer" was referenced on Google more than 70,000 times. There was talk that he was a "lookout" for Gerry and Kate; there was talk that Jes was orchestrating a reality-TV hoax and Madeleine's disappearance was part of the con; there was talk that the Tapas Nine were all swingers. There was a lot of talk.

In early September, Kate and Gerry became official suspects. Their warm tide of support turned decidedly cool. Had they cruelly conned us all? The public needed to know, and who had seen Gerry at around 9pm on the fateful night? Jes.

Tonight with Trevor McDonald, GMTV, the Sun, the News of the World, the Sunday Mirror, the Daily Express, the Evening Standard and the Independent on Sunday began calling. Jes's office stopped putting through calls from people asking to speak to "Jeremy" (only his grandmother calls him that). Some emails told him that he would be "better off" if he spoke to them or he would "regret it" if he didn't, implying that it was in his interest to defend himself - they didn't say what from.

Quietly, we began to worry that Jes might be next in line for some imagined blame or accusation. On a Saturday night in September, he received a call: we were on the front page of the News of the World. They had surreptitiously taken photographs of us, outside the house. There were no more details. We went to bed, but we could not sleep. "Maddie: the secret witness," said the headline, "TV boss holds vital clue to the mystery." Unfortunately, Jes does not hold any such vital clues. In November, he inched through the events of that May night with Leicestershire detectives, but he saw nothing suspicious, nothing that would further the investigation."

So that is a denial from his wife. 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 12:14:35 AM by Brietta »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Brietta

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #883 on: December 21, 2016, 12:22:53 AM »
@Robittybob1 ... please be careful when referring to witnesses that you do not inadvertently overstep the bounds of propriety.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: How could Jez and Gerry not see Jane?
« Reply #884 on: December 21, 2016, 02:41:53 AM »
@Robittybob1 ... please be careful when referring to witnesses that you do not inadvertently overstep the bounds of propriety.
Right so the bits about Bridget writing about kidnapped children were off limit. That seemed so off target, I'll drop that.  But the cut and paste about "Donal Macintyre did he help out his old friend Jeremy Wilkins by proving 'tongue in cheek' an abduction was impossible...? " was that also removed? Yet that has been on the internet for years. Is that topic off limits too?

I was wanting to look at the Donal Macintyre thesis again, if I may, but in the thread about "who enters the apartment" for he had this idea that the abductors did a dry run the night before.  That must increase the chances of being caught and the chances of their DNA traces being left behind.

Please are any of those topics overstepping the bounds of propriety?  For that idea is new for to "overstep the bounds of propriety" what must I do?  Any clues please?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 05:49:22 AM by Robittybob1 »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.