Author Topic: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?  (Read 90304 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2016, 05:08:28 AM »
Also:

He voted in favour of leaving the European Economic Community in 1975.
He voted against the Maastricht Treaty that created the EU. Here's what he had to say about it — "It takes us in the opposite direction of an unelected legislative body—the Commission—and, in the case of foreign policy, a policy Commission that will be, in effect, imposing foreign policy on nation states that have fought for their own democratic accountability."
He voted against the Lisbon Treaty which is the current constitutional basis for the EU.

What he said about the Commission was correct and voting against the Lisbon Treaty doesn't a leaver make, unless Cameron was a secret leaver too.

David Cameron voted no on Lisbon Treaty — Second Reading
David Cameron voted no on Lisbon Treaty — Third Reading
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10777/david_cameron/witney/divisions?policy=1065
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Alfie

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Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2016, 08:19:56 AM »

What he said about the Commission was correct and voting against the Lisbon Treaty doesn't a leaver make, unless Cameron was a secret leaver too.

David Cameron voted no on Lisbon Treaty — Second Reading
David Cameron voted no on Lisbon Treaty — Third Reading
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10777/david_cameron/witney/divisions?policy=1065
maybe he was, he's certainly not a "conviction" politician as Is Jeremy, supposedly...

Alfie

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Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2016, 08:21:42 AM »
If Jeremy was a passionate advocate of remaining in the EU, perhaps you can link me to a few of his passionate speeches in the subject over the last 3 months?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2016, 09:28:55 AM »
If Jeremy was a passionate advocate of remaining in the EU, perhaps you can link me to a few of his passionate speeches in the subject over the last 3 months?

It has been said he was a secret supporter of 'Leave', not a  passionate advocate of 'Remain'. Don't change the subject, give cites which support the allegations; your last attempt failed.
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Alfie

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Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2016, 11:27:56 AM »
It has been said he was a secret supporter of 'Leave', not a  passionate advocate of 'Remain'. Don't change the subject, give cites which support the allegations; your last attempt failed.
I wrote:
"If Corbyn truly was an honest man he should have backed the Leave campaign, as he has been against the EU all his political career".
and
"Anyone HONEST with these opinions on the EU should have had the courage of his convictions and come out in favour of Leave"

I have linked to his views on the subject which show that he was highly critical of the EU all through his political career.

I am entitled to my opinion on the subject.  Clearly (unless you can provide a cite to the contrary) Jeremy's heart was not in the Remain camp, therefore as a "conviction" politician he should have had the courage of his convictions IMO and come out as a leaver, as his compatriot George Galloway did. 


Alfie

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Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2016, 11:38:30 AM »
What efforts did Jeremy Corbyn make to persuade traditional Labour voters that remaining in the EU was the best option for them?  Where were the impassioned speeches spelling out all the benefits of remaining?  I recall seeing him on a chat show, at the beginning of which he got out of a limo in a long white fur coat and bling, all very amusing, and then claiming in the interview (after a telling pause) that he was 7/10 in favour of remaining, but I wasn't convinced.  Who was? 

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2016, 12:13:58 PM »
What efforts did Jeremy Corbyn make to persuade traditional Labour voters that remaining in the EU was the best option for them?  Where were the impassioned speeches spelling out all the benefits of remaining?  I recall seeing him on a chat show, at the beginning of which he got out of a limo in a long white fur coat and bling, all very amusing, and then claiming in the interview (after a telling pause) that he was 7/10 in favour of remaining, but I wasn't convinced.  Who was?

He clearly hasn't supported EU membership 100%, so why should he have made impassioned speeches of support? You seem to think he should have passionately supported something he didn't passionately believe in.

He gave remain the level of support he felt it deserved; 7/10. Any more would have been dishonest of him.
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Alfie

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Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2016, 04:42:54 PM »
He clearly hasn't supported EU membership 100%, so why should he have made impassioned speeches of support? You seem to think he should have passionately supported something he didn't passionately believe in.

He gave remain the level of support he felt it deserved; 7/10. Any more would have been dishonest of him.
The issue of whether or not to remain in the EU has aroused passionate debate on both sides of the fence.  The fact that the leader of the opposition couldn't muster more than a "meh" either way is a shocking indictment on his ability to lead the opposition and / or govern the country IMO.  If he can't get passionate about this most important of issues which effects every single person living in this country, what can he get passionate about (apart from putting the boot in to Tony Blair and"evil" Israel?)

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2016, 06:53:01 PM »
The issue of whether or not to remain in the EU has aroused passionate debate on both sides of the fence.  The fact that the leader of the opposition couldn't muster more than a "meh" either way is a shocking indictment on his ability to lead the opposition and / or govern the country IMO.  If he can't get passionate about this most important of issues which effects every single person living in this country, what can he get passionate about (apart from putting the boot in to Tony Blair and"evil" Israel?)

That's just your opinion of how a leader should behave. As I recall Corbyn's election was driven by a desire to see
a different kind of leadership. Blair was the type of leader you admire and he took us to war in Iraq without allowing his cabinet a proper voice. A strong leader who is now out there on his own with no back-up, taking all the blame.

Corbyn said he wants the views of regular people across the country to be recognised. The 66-year-old leader of the opposition exclaimed: “Kinder, more inclusive. Bottom up, not top down. In every community and workplace, not just at Westminster. Real debate, not message discipline. Straight talking. Honest.”
http://www.managers.org.uk/insights/news/2015/october/whats-new-about-jeremy-corbyns-leadership-style


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Alfie

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Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2016, 07:12:26 PM »
That's just your opinion of how a leader should behave. As I recall Corbyn's election was driven by a desire to see
a different kind of leadership. Blair was the type of leader you admire and he took us to war in Iraq without allowing his cabinet a proper voice. A strong leader who is now out there on his own with no back-up, taking all the blame.

Corbyn said he wants the views of regular people across the country to be recognised. The 66-year-old leader of the opposition exclaimed: “Kinder, more inclusive. Bottom up, not top down. In every community and workplace, not just at Westminster. Real debate, not message discipline. Straight talking. Honest.”
http://www.managers.org.uk/insights/news/2015/october/whats-new-about-jeremy-corbyns-leadership-style
I don"t know where you got the idea that I admire Blair!  However, I don't think I'm alone in expecting a leader to be strong, decisive, and unambiguous in his or her views about serious matters such as the EU.  Corbyn has been anything but. 

stephen25000

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Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2016, 07:19:43 PM »
That's just your opinion of how a leader should behave. As I recall Corbyn's election was driven by a desire to see
a different kind of leadership. Blair was the type of leader you admire and he took us to war in Iraq without allowing his cabinet a proper voice. A strong leader who is now out there on his own with no back-up, taking all the blame.

Corbyn said he wants the views of regular people across the country to be recognised. The 66-year-old leader of the opposition exclaimed: “Kinder, more inclusive. Bottom up, not top down. In every community and workplace, not just at Westminster. Real debate, not message discipline. Straight talking. Honest.”
http://www.managers.org.uk/insights/news/2015/october/whats-new-about-jeremy-corbyns-leadership-style

Blair was Bush's poodle.

He did his master's bidding.

How many of those who disagreed with Blair at the time , got pilloried in the media, and let's not forget the 1 million people on the demo.

Blair and Bush, made the errors, others paid for those errors with their lives.

Do you even remember who gave Saddam his weapons, chemical and otherwise ?

The following may help jog your memory.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-153210/Rumsfeld-helped-Iraq-chemical-weapons.html

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/mar/06/uk.iraq

Let's not forget Blair said he would do the same again.

I have heard that Blair, Bush and now Leadsom  claim they got/get messages from a higher being. Allegedly of course. 8**8:/:
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 07:26:03 PM by stephen25000 »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2016, 07:37:03 PM »
I don"t know where you got the idea that I admire Blair!  However, I don't think I'm alone in expecting a leader to be strong, decisive, and unambiguous in his or her views about serious matters such as the EU.  Corbyn has been anything but.

We had a multitude of strong, decisive and unambiguous voices. They spoke, they wrote, they promised and they threatened. None of them gave full and factual information so we could make an informed decision. All any of them wanted was to make sure their 'side' won. I don't think I'm alone in being fed up with people trying to manipulate the electorate for their own ends. There's a difference between leading and browbeating.
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Alfie

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Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2016, 08:14:10 PM »
We had a multitude of strong, decisive and unambiguous voices. They spoke, they wrote, they promised and they threatened. None of them gave full and factual information so we could make an informed decision. All any of them wanted was to make sure their 'side' won. I don't think I'm alone in being fed up with people trying to manipulate the electorate for their own ends. There's a difference between leading and browbeating.
So what's your understanding of where Corbyn sits on Europe?  Say he wins a general election in October, what would you expect him to deliver and how?

Offline mercury

Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2016, 12:51:53 AM »
So what's your understanding of where Corbyn sits on Europe?  Say he wins a general election in October, what would you expect him to deliver and how?
Why are YOU so obsessed with corbyn, did he or a labour person let you down once?

Corbyn has much power, labour has many votes and blairites are taunted historical  wax figures soon, if theyre famous enough which they are not lol

The rot in true labour(aka fake labour)  needed to be flushed out and it happened


 8((()*/
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 11:22:50 AM by ShiningInLuz »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2016, 08:06:31 AM »
So what's your understanding of where Corbyn sits on Europe?  Say he wins a general election in October, what would you expect him to deliver and how?

I would expect him to accept the majority decision delivered by the referendum. Labour's leave negotiations would, however, seek to get a deal which both sides could accept. I expect whoever gets the job to do the same.

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