UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: John on March 08, 2012, 11:13:26 PM
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This seems to be what Jeremy Bamber's liberty hangs on, the resultant disfiguration left when the hot tip of a rifle comes into contact with skin.
Obviously they wouldn't want to use a real human being for this experiment so a pigs flesh was next choice. The other problem is that they don't have Sheila's remains to make a comparison with and have to be content to rely on the police photos. Oh! but wait a minute, aren't they the police photos which Teskowski has been criticising for months now? They also don't have the actual murder weapon nor the silencer and probably don't even have ammunition similar to that in use in 1985.
It seems to be the case that Bamber's lawyers are attempting to prove that Sheila was shot with a rifle which did not have a sound moderator or silencer fitted. You see, it was the prosecution contention at trial that Sheila was shot with a rifle which had a sound moderator fitted thus why particles of her blood found their way into the moderators baffles. It has subsequently been established by DNA testing that some of Sheila's blood did end up in the sound moderator.
Their argument is basically that if Sheila was shot with an unsilenced rifle then the original conviction was flawed since it was made on the basis that she was killed with a silenced weapon. Does this render Bamber innocent I hear you ask yourself?
Does it hell!
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I can't help but think that JB must have been 7 kinds of stupid to expect anyone to believe that Sheila would be able to shoot herself twice. That, and forgetting to smear Ralph's blood on the phone, proves that he didn't think it all through. MASSIVE PLUM!!
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I can't help but think that JB must have been 7 kinds of stupid to expect anyone to believe that Sheila would be able to shoot herself twice. That, and forgetting to smear Ralph's blood on the phone, proves that he didn't think it all through. MASSIVE PLUM!!
It would appear that she moved her head as he shot her Shona, thus the non fatal shot.
Shona, I feel for you and the other girls having to put up with such abuse from no friends Preecey. We are right behind you if you ever need someone to talk to.
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Thank you, John!! If us girlies need the cavalry, I promise we'll call you!! We all know what she's like, she's only got one line of attack, badly-written abuse. YAAAAWN!! And I think that JB, or the accomplice, found that the first shot hadn't killed Sheila and shot her again, just before they left.
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I can't help but think that JB must have been 7 kinds of stupid to expect anyone to believe that Sheila would be able to shoot herself twice. That, and forgetting to smear Ralph's blood on the phone, proves that he didn't think it all through. MASSIVE PLUM!!
Multiple gunshot suicides are rare, but they do happen.
Multiple gunshot suicides are rare, but possible. In one study of 138 gunshot suicides, 5 (3.6%) involved two shots to the head, the first of which missed the brain.[1] A suicide with 4 gunshots to the head has been reported.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_gunshot_suicide
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2589286
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I can't help but think that JB must have been 7 kinds of stupid to expect anyone to believe that Sheila would be able to shoot herself twice. That, and forgetting to smear Ralph's blood on the phone, proves that he didn't think it all through. MASSIVE PLUM!!
Multiple gunshot suicides are rare, but they do happen.
Multiple gunshot suicides are rare, but possible. In one study of 138 gunshot suicides, 5 (3.6%) involved two shots to the head, the first of which missed the brain.[1] A suicide with 4 gunshots to the head has been reported.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_gunshot_suicide
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2589286
Don't people wanting to commit suicide usually put the gun to the side of their head or in their mouth?
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It varies. According to Wiki, the most common is the head.
Generally, the bullet will be aimed at point-blank range, often at the head or, less commonly, into the mouth, under the chin, or pointed at the chest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_methods#Firearms
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The experts comments that maybe the silencer wasn't used is just not good enough, it's like saying it could have been someone from out of space who set the murders up, oh forgot he's tried that one.
I'm sure the prosecutions experts will say the opposite and still does not overturn the other overwhelming evidence that proves Sheila was not the killer!!
Even the house keeper saw what Bamber was. 8-)(--)
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It varies. According to Wiki, the most common is the head.
Generally, the bullet will be aimed at point-blank range, often at the head or, less commonly, into the mouth, under the chin, or pointed at the chest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_methods#Firearms
and she wouldn't have been able to shoot herself twice and the lack of her fingerprints on the Gun proves this as it would have been covered with them, especially after shooting 25 bullets!! 8((()*/
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OH MY FLECKING GOOD GOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have heard it all now!!!! I don't read anything Tesko writes normally but one of his posts was under a billion words so I read it tonight. His THEORY of how the rifle could have been hot enough to make the burn marks on Nevill was it was obviously leant against the Aga cooker and got cooked .... probably while Sheila and Nevill were having a cup of tea before she resumed KILLING HIM!!!!!!
That mind bogglingly ridiculous theory just made me smile .... typical Tesko bollocks I thought!!!! I mean how can a rifle muzzle get cooked leaning against an oven ??????? Stupid pathetic Tesko bolloX!
BUT THEN IN THE VERY NEXT POST NGB NELLY THE BARRISTER CONFIRMS THAT PREPOSTEROUS BOLLOCKS IS ACTUALLY PART OF THE SUBMISSION TO THE CCRC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
8)><( 8)><( 8)><( ..... CRYING WITH LAUGHTER!!!!!!!!!!!!
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Oh my giddy aunt!!!!!!!!!!
What a bunch of pathetic, slimy disingenuous w.......ssssssssssss!!!!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
They find out the rifle could never have got hot enough by firing rounds to produce the burn marks! Oh no what can we do Nelly says Simple Simon! 8-)(--) 8-)(--) 8-)(--) 8-)(--)
Eureka !!!!!! I know, Simple Simon says Nelly ..... what if the rifle got cooked in the oven when eermmm Sheila was eermmmm slapping Nevill around a bit!!!!!!!!!!!
SHAME ON NELLY AND SIMON AND THE WHOLE BUNCH OF YOU LYING, CONIVING WEIRDOS!!!!!!!!
Cooking the rifle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA In all my 27 years I have never heard anything quite so ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!! @)(++(*
I feel ashamed for you NELLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Tesko's bollocks:
Seems to me the answer to that part of the case is easily explained, since the rifle was obviously leaning against the aga stove which was hot which in turn heated up the tip of the guns barrel, so that when it was used to prod Ralph the heat which had been generated from the aga stove via contact with it, was transferred on to the back of Ralph's neck...
I understand that police confirmed that the aga was hot and working on the morning of the shootings which if true and in my opinion is self explanatory...
And Nelly The Barrister's amazing confirmazion that as usual Bamber's defense will invent anything to explain away proof that the new evidence theories are rubbish!!!!!!¨
That is exactly what the defence theory is, in the light of the tests carried out in the US.
Oh the shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Neil has just said this:
I have to take issue with some of your points Curiousessex. It is true that further tests are needed. If the CCRC refer the case to the Court of Appeal legal aid will be granted and the further tests can be carried out before the appeal is heard. If the CCRC want to see the results of the further tests before they make a final decision, the correct approach is for them to provide funding for those tests to be carried out. It would not be appropriate for the CCRC to require the defence to fund this.
It is true that firing of the rifle alone would not have heated the end of the barrel to the temperature necessary to cause the burn marks to Nevill's neck. However further tests are necessary to validate the defence theory that contact with the Aga, couple with the gun being fired, could achieve the required temperature.
How much can it possibly cost to heat up an Aga, lean a gun against it and see how hot it gets?
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Neil has just said this:
I have to take issue with some of your points Curiousessex. It is true that further tests are needed. If the CCRC refer the case to the Court of Appeal legal aid will be granted and the further tests can be carried out before the appeal is heard. If the CCRC want to see the results of the further tests before they make a final decision, the correct approach is for them to provide funding for those tests to be carried out. It would not be appropriate for the CCRC to require the defence to fund this.
It is true that firing of the rifle alone would not have heated the end of the barrel to the temperature necessary to cause the burn marks to Nevill's neck. However further tests are necessary to validate the defence theory that contact with the Aga, couple with the gun being fired, could achieve the required temperature.
How much can it possibly cost to heat up an Aga, lean a gun against it and see how hot it gets?
Maybe Bamber Inc. have blown their fighting fund on the meanigless USA research ... maybe Gladys or Eleanor have an Aga in their council 'mansions' they could use!
Weety you take no prisoners and say it like you see it ... what's your opinion of the programme and did any of the 'evidence' stroke a cord with you?
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Well I don't know about 'stroke' 8(0(*
Frankly I was surprised that Bamber's team took part in (instigated?) a documentary which left such glaring holes in the 'new'' evidence, especially since the CCRC are due to give a decision soon. After the newspaper reports on the Arizona tests i was thinking that they must have more than this surely? But apparently not.
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It is mostly assumed that the burnmarks on Ralph were from the night of the murders. He could have been injured prior to that night, nobody knows, and nobody knows how.
Sheila had a bandaged gouge on her stomach, no one knows what that was and how she got it. Since it was bandaged, it is most likely it happened earlier.
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It is mostly assumed that the burnmarks on Ralph were from the night of the murders. He could have been injured prior to that night, nobody knows, and nobody knows how.
Sheila had a bandaged gouge on her stomach, no one knows what that was and how she got it. Since it was bandaged, it is most likely it happened earlier.
Interesting point Abs ... I can't see how the burn marks happened inside the house that night if firing the bullets couldn't heat the rifle barrel to flesh searing tempretures. I wonder what farm machinery could have burned Nevill like that?
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More from Neil:
Contrary to what has been suggested, despite the fact that it was summer the Aga was fully on at the time. The outside of the Aga would have been unlikely to have reached 200 degrees C. The theory is that the end of the rifle was deliberately placed either inside the Aga or onto one of the hotplates at the top and either would have had a temperature of at least 200 degrees C.
Oh dear... good luck persuading anyone of that.
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More from Neil:
Contrary to what has been suggested, despite the fact that it was summer the Aga was fully on at the time. The outside of the Aga would have been unlikely to have reached 200 degrees C. The theory is that the end of the rifle was deliberately placed either inside the Aga or onto one of the hotplates at the top and either would have had a temperature of at least 200 degrees C.
Oh dear... good luck persuading anyone of that.
Oh it was ritual branding before the ritual cleansing .... any theory in the storm eh Nelly? This is the murder of 5 innocents including 2 kiddies and you are treating it like a joke! Shame on the lot of you!
How on earth does Bamber get supposedly intelligent legal professionals to humiliate themselves espousing preposterous theories to try and make their bogus 'evidence' fit.
Any honourbale man would have looked at the tempreture tests on the rifle barrel and realised that their guesswork was wrong. Not these glory hunters; if the Aga Saga joke is proven to be rubbish no doubt they will invent find another Mickey Mouse theory!
Shame on you Nelly, you're just a Tesko in sheeps clothing!
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At what point did the end of the gun/silencer get cooked on the Aga? According to Bamber he left it on the settle, we know thats bullshit of course. Are they trying to say that sheila heated up the rifle/silencer during the shootings?
So she shoots her mother and kids, heats up the gun/silencer and puts the gun in nevilles back? Can someone please explain because its all coming across as a bit silly IMO
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At what point did the end of the gun/silencer get cooked on the Aga? According to Bamber he left it on the settle, we know thats bullshit of course. Are they trying to say that sheila heated up the rifle/silencer during the shootings?
So she shoots her mother and kids, heats up the gun/silencer and puts the gun in nevilles back? Can someone please explain because its all coming across as a bit silly IMO
It gets worse Andy ... we are now talking about Sheila doing a bit of ritual branding after Nevill had died! Heating the rifle end up to burn her dead father ... a father everyone knows she adored.
Nelly, Simon and the whole bunch of them have no shame whatsoever! I vomit in their general direction! s..mbags one and all!
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Im confused tim! as usual ?{)(**
Anyway, if thats all his defence can come up with,i dont hold much hope for Mr.B.
They need to explain how sheila had no evidence of having fired a gun that night, amongst other things ?>)()<
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Im confused tim! as usual ?{)(**
Anyway, if thats all his defence can come up with,i dont hold much hope for Mr.B.
They need to explain how sheila had no evidence of having fired a gun that night, amongst other things ?>)()<
They explained that with 'Sheila wiped her fingertips cleaning on her clothing' in a statement Preece published yesterday! 8)--))
I too hold out verx little hope for Bamber:
This is Simon McKay talking of Bamber's chances today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RIgs3eygo
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This is Jeremy Bamber after watching the New Evidence programme last night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw8bW6b5900&feature=fvwrel
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@)(++(* @)(++(*
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I videoed myself watching Bamber - The New Evidence last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-8GEFdn8sM
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Stan and Ollie also watched!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLPIMHfbKr4&feature=related
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I know i keep asking, but can someone please explain to me at what point was the gun/silencer heated up by the aga? im just not getting this bit.
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Stan and Ollie also watched!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLPIMHfbKr4&feature=related
8)--)) @)(++(* @)(++(*
Is that Jackie Preece in the background with a rifle wrapped up? 8()(((@#
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I know i keep asking, but can someone please explain to me at what point was the gun/silencer heated up by the aga? im just not getting this bit.
According to Nelly 1006 it was after Sheila had shot him numerous times, battered him senseless with the rifle butt and then finsihed him off with more bullets. She then heated up the rifle in/on the Aga and did a bit of ritual branding on his dead body!
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so disgusting!
Is there any depravity that won't accuse Sheila of committing to exonerate their Saint Jeremy!
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Has that been included in the submissions to the CCRC? Thats the official line now?
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Has that been included in the submissions to the CCRC? Thats the official line now?
According to Nelly 1006 yes it has! If Bamber gets an appeal I will be stunned!
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Oh dear!
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More from Neil:
Contrary to what has been suggested, despite the fact that it was summer the Aga was fully on at the time. The outside of the Aga would have been unlikely to have reached 200 degrees C. The theory is that the end of the rifle was deliberately placed either inside the Aga or onto one of the hotplates at the top and either would have had a temperature of at least 200 degrees C.
Oh dear... good luck persuading anyone of that.
Indeed Weety. Nobody has an Aga on at 2am in the morning in August let alone running hot. Those clowns are living in some sort of parallel universe.
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More from Neil:
Contrary to what has been suggested, despite the fact that it was summer the Aga was fully on at the time. The outside of the Aga would have been unlikely to have reached 200 degrees C. The theory is that the end of the rifle was deliberately placed either inside the Aga or onto one of the hotplates at the top and either would have had a temperature of at least 200 degrees C.
Oh dear... good luck persuading anyone of that.
Indeed Weety. Nobody has an Aga on at 2am in the morning in August let alone running hot. Those clowns are living in some sort of parallel universe.
i didnt get a chance to view it yesrterday as I had to work a late shift in the hospital so many thanks for the clues to what has happened. I am going to sit down and watch it now in peace and quiet before the kids come home from school. Great pics btw John I hope you do lots more as you indicated.
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This seems to be what Jeremy Bamber's liberty hangs on, the resultant disfiguration left when the hot tip of a rifle comes into contact with skin.
Obviously they wouldn't want to use a real human being for this experiment so a pigs flesh was next choice. The other problem is that they don't have Sheila's remains to make a comparison with and have to be content to rely on the police photos. Oh! but wait a minute, aren't they the police photos which Teskowski has been criticising for months now? They also don't have the actual murder weapon nor the silencer and probably don't even have ammunition similar to that in use in 1985.
It seems to be the case that Bamber's lawyers are attempting to prove that Sheila was shot with a rifle which did not have a sound moderator or silencer fitted. You see, it was the prosecution contention at trial that Sheila was shot with a rifle which had a sound moderator fitted thus why particles of her blood found their way into the moderators baffles. It has subsequently been established by DNA testing that some of Sheila's blood did end up in the sound moderator.
Their argument is basically that if Sheila was shot with an unsilenced rifle then the original conviction was flawed since it was made on the basis that she was killed with a silenced weapon. Does this render Bamber innocent I hear you ask yourself?
Does it hell!
I hope you read this, Rob...it explains in fine detail how Sheila couldn’t have shot herself, and also explains the reasons why JB’s CT carrying out a reconstruction on dead pigs was totally pointless
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I hope you read this, Rob...it explains in fine detail how Sheila couldn’t have shot herself, and also explains the reasons why JB’s CT carrying out a reconstruction on dead pigs was totally pointless
If the blood was put there after the event so what if the blood matches Sheila's DNA profile? The presence of Sheila's DNA does not prove when it was put there.
"It seems to be the case that Bamber's lawyers are attempting to prove that Sheila was shot with a rifle which did not have a sound moderator or silencer fitted. You see, it was the prosecution contention at trial that Sheila was shot with a rifle which had a sound moderator fitted thus why particles of her blood found their way into the moderators baffles. It has subsequently been established by DNA testing that some of Sheila's blood did end up in the sound moderator." If it could be proved the silencer was never on well I think that would be significant.
What is the proof it was used? Is it just that blood has been found in it? Blood that could be put there after the event.
Whose body had gunshot residue consistent with a silencer in use, (the wider pattern)?
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I think to be fair the pigskin needs to be heated to at least 30 degrees to represent the normal temperature of human skin.
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If the blood was put there after the event so what if the blood matches Sheila's DNA profile? The presence of Sheila's DNA does not prove when it was put there.
"It seems to be the case that Bamber's lawyers are attempting to prove that Sheila was shot with a rifle which did not have a sound moderator or silencer fitted. You see, it was the prosecution contention at trial that Sheila was shot with a rifle which had a sound moderator fitted thus why particles of her blood found their way into the moderators baffles. It has subsequently been established by DNA testing that some of Sheila's blood did end up in the sound moderator." If it could be proved the silencer was never on well I think that would be significant.
What is the proof it was used? Is it just that blood has been found in it? Blood that could be put there after the event.
Whose body had gunshot residue consistent with a silencer in use, (the wider pattern)?
When you say the fact “JUST that Sheila’s blood was inside the silencer” is proof she was shot with the silencer on the rifle; besides which, no blood was found inside the barrel of the rifle.
That is irrefutable evidence and proof.
This crazy nonsense that someone found some of Sheila’s blood, when everyone’s blood had been destroyed from the soc after burning the carpets and mattresses etc, and the fact that even if there was blood found inside WHF it would have dried and no-one could have known who the blood belonged to as five people were killed...and the fact that there was only a hugely diluted trace of Sheila’s MENSTRUAL blood inside a bucket of water along with clothing (and forensics would’ve known immediately it was menstrual blood), and it would have been impossible to spray it exactly the same as back spatter firms MEANS the blood came from Sheila when she was shot.
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When you say the fact “JUST that Sheila’s blood was inside the silencer” is proof she was shot with the silencer on the rifle; besides which, no blood was found inside the barrel of the rifle.
That is irrefutable evidence and proof.
This crazy nonsense that someone found some of Sheila’s blood, when everyone’s blood had been destroyed from the soc after burning the carpets and mattresses etc, and the fact that even if there was blood found inside WHF it would have dried and no-one could have known who the blood belonged to as five people were killed...and the fact that there was only a hugely diluted trace of Sheila’s MENSTRUAL blood inside a bucket of water along with clothing (and forensics would’ve known immediately it was menstrual blood), and it would have been impossible to spray it exactly the same as back spatter firms MEANS the blood came from Sheila when she was shot.
When I read through Ann Eaton's statement not all the blood had been cleaned by the SOC team. OK they had removed and burned the blood-stained carpets, but I recall there was blood found on the window in the kitchen and on the carpet up the stairs (that are the places she noticed herself). It wasn't only her doing the clean up so there could well have been more places too.
Remember there were blood-covered knickers in a bucket in the kitchen as well.
I would not take the view that it would be impossible to find Sheila's blood around the bedroom. How much spatter would have been the result of the second shot into Sheila? I would have liked to see what was on the bottom of that bedside cabinet.
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When I read through Ann Eaton's statement not all the blood had been cleaned by the SOC team. OK they had removed and burned the blood-stained carpets, but I recall there was blood found on the window in the kitchen and on the carpet up the stairs (that are the places she noticed herself). It wasn't only her doing the clean up so there could well have been more places too.
Remember there were blood-covered knickers in a bucket in the kitchen as well.
I would not take the view that it would be impossible to find Sheila's blood around the bedroom. How much spatter would have been the result of the second shot into Sheila? I would have liked to see what was on the bottom of that bedside cabinet.
Who would be your #1 suspect for putting the blood in the moderator? And when would be the opportunity to do this.
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Who would be your #1 suspect for putting the blood in the moderator? And when would be the opportunity to do this.
Friday night or Saturday morning. I wouldn't be allowed to name my suspects on this website. I haven't identified anyone in particular at the moment.