Author Topic: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber  (Read 38499 times)

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Offline Angelo222

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2012, 03:13:21 PM »
Having been subjected to numerous physcological assessments, how has Bamber been able to 'beat' the test?

What is involved in these assessments? How thorough are they?
A very good question Sika. It can only be answered in two parts.
Firstly, a lie detector test, or polygraph test to give it's correct name is a test has little or no validity amongst scientists or courts of law. Lie detection has a long history in mythology and fairy tales; the polygraph has allowed modern fiction to use a device more easily seen as scientific and plausible. It is a test that measures normal human responses to questions. The belief is that deceptive answers will produce physiological responses that can be differentiated from those associated with non-deceptive answers.
Secondly, based on the first statement, it presumes that all humans will exhibit the same responses if they try to be deceiptful in the answers to questions - sweating, shaking, increased heart rate, facial blushing etc. These are direct results of feelings of guilt, embarassment, shame and the knowledge that one has just told a lie etc. However, in a psychopath these normal physiological responses are, by-and-large, absent. Therefore the psychopath will appear to be telling the truth when questioned as they will exhib normal responses to highly important questions.
For a psychopath to tell a lie is second nature and therefore will exhib virtually no physiological response.
Polygraphy has also been faulted for failing to trap known spies such as double-agent Aldrich Ames, who passed two polygraph tests while spying for the Soviet Union.
In short, it is a useless tool and had been widely discredited by scientists anf psychologists alike, especially in Europe where it is mostly used by defendants trying to add weight to their protestations of their innocence.
It is probably best summed up on this site 'How to Cheat a Polygraph'
http://www.wikihow.com/Cheat-a-Polygraph-Test-(Lie-Detector)
I hope this helps to explain your question Sika. 8((()*/

Isn't it strange how it is those people who have most to gain by promoting this junk science who do most of the talking up.  I seem to remember that the person who conducted the tests with Adrian Prout and more recently with Luke Mitchell and his mother is the Chairman of the British Polygraph Society or something similar.

This is a business to these people just like it is to the psychic Derek Acorah and others like him who prey on the most vulnerable.

Ian is quite right to point out how the physiological responses in every person is different and how the psychopath or even those with psychopathic tendencies can give benign results to even the biggest lie.

To give an example of how you can influence the lie detector, all you have to do is to inflict pain on yourself when asked the so called test questions. All this takes is a tack or a pin in your foot.  When you want to give a false result press on it and bingo, the needle on the polygraph goes crazy.  Simples!!

De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline starryian

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2012, 03:26:44 PM »
Thanks for that Starryian,  I very much enjoy reading your posts which are ALWAYS excellent.

Due to the fact that I worded my post so badly, you misunderstood me. 

I wasn't referring to the polygraph test but rather the official prison service assessments.  I note that his supporters make great hay out of the fact that he has had many physcological assessments which conclude that he is not a physcopath.  Just how effective are these assessments though?
Thank you Sika,
The prison assessments are usually done by every day prison psychologists, but it is also possible to conduct a private examination if you have the necessary funds. I believe this is partially the case with Bamber as he seems to have had both. However, I hasten to add, that no-one apart from the psychologist and Bamber himself knows the outcome of these assessments. The written reports have, to my knowledge, never been made public. So we have to take Bamber's word for it, and as you can imagine, I find that very difficult to accept.
Starryian..

Offline sika

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2012, 04:56:14 PM »
Ian, you never disappoint!

That is very interesting.  Half of the battle with this case is getting people to deal in facts.  There is so much misinformation, you don't know whether you're coming or going!

Whenever faced with anything tricky to explain, Bamber supporters will always play the conspiracy card and bang on about PII.  How many people would have to have been involved in this conspiracy for god's sake?

Offline Joanne

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2012, 05:24:24 PM »
From what I have seen in the media (not on here), it seems to me that Jeremy Bamber's case, his main argument comes down to Sheila going beserk with a gun because there was a family discussion about the beautiful boys into foster care. Can you answer me a few questions please?
Had the boys ever been in foster care?
Did Neville and June look after the boys at all?
Did the boys Dad look after them for any length of time (like if Sheila had an episode)?
Did Sheila recieve ongoing care for her menatl health and did she take her medication regularly? Was her mental health well controlled (her schizophrenic/psychotic episodes)?
Did Jeremy and Sheila get on? And did Sheila and Jeremy get on with Neville and June?
I know I've heard varying reports that they (the parents) didn't agree with a lot of Jeremy's actions but I suppose that could be said with a lot of parents and kids.

Offline abs

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2012, 05:47:04 PM »
From what I have seen in the media (not on here), it seems to me that Jeremy Bamber's case, his main argument comes down to Sheila going beserk with a gun because there was a family discussion about the beautiful boys into foster care. Can you answer me a few questions please?
Had the boys ever been in foster care?Did Neville and June look after the boys at all?
Did the boys Dad look after them for any length of time (like if Sheila had an episode)?
Did Sheila recieve ongoing care for her menatl health and did she take her medication regularly? Was her mental health well controlled (her schizophrenic/psychotic episodes)?Did Jeremy and Sheila get on? And did Sheila and Jeremy get on with Neville and June?
I know I've heard varying reports that they (the parents) didn't agree with a lot of Jeremy's actions but I suppose that could be said with a lot of parents and kids.

They had been in some type of foster care with a family - so I actually CAN see this conversation taking place, I even think it is probable. Sheila was not doing very well with the boys. They didnīt get to school on time, such things. She couldnīt cope, and I am not sure Colin had the boys that much.

Sheila had asked to have her dose of Haloperidol HALVED, which the doctor then did. That is EXTREMELY dangerous and has in many, many cases led to violence and murder. Andrea Yates had her dose of Haloperidol entirely cut, then she went on to murder her five children. Haloperidol should be reduced very, very gradually. Preferably in a hospital setting, the patient being closely monitored. The recommendation is to cut about 10 mg at a time, then monitor the patient for two weeks, and if the patient is responding well, you can cut 10 mg again - and so forth.
None of that was in place in Sheilaīs case - it was just halved abruptly. You can google Haloperidol, and you will find loads of examples of the awful effects of cutting that medication.


Offline sika

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2012, 05:58:25 PM »
Interesting post Abs,  is the information about the medication being halved, officially documented anywhere? was it brought up at trial?  Did JB have a defence expert who put forward this argument?

Offline abs

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2012, 06:04:42 PM »
Interesting post Abs,  is the information about the medication being halved, officially documented anywhere? was it brought up at trial?  Did JB have a defence expert who put forward this argument?

I know it is documented. I believe it wasnīt her regular doctor who halved the dose, and the regular doctor was not pleased at all.
I would be able to find the documentation on the blue forum, but since I am not a member there anymore, i donīt have access to them.

Your last questions, I donīt think it was brought up at trial. I am not sure they knew about that, but it is rather information that surfaced later. Not sure.

Offline Joanne

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2012, 06:05:15 PM »
Thank you. I know that psychiatric type drugs are notoriously hard when it comes to dosing and also the amount of time it takes them to work, reduction should really be done in stages, especially since the side effects from doing it fast aren't good.
Andrea Yeates' case was on CI channel only yesterday, spooky.

Offline sika

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2012, 06:21:57 PM »
Interesting post Abs,  is the information about the medication being halved, officially documented anywhere? was it brought up at trial?  Did JB have a defence expert who put forward this argument?

I know it is documented. I believe it wasnīt her regular doctor who halved the dose, and the regular doctor was not pleased at all.
I would be able to find the documentation on the blue forum, but since I am not a member there anymore, i donīt have access to them.

Your last questions, I donīt think it was brought up at trial. I am not sure they knew about that, but it is rather
information that surfaced later. Not sure
  Thanks Abs

Offline starryian

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2012, 07:52:34 PM »
From what I have seen in the media (not on here), it seems to me that Jeremy Bamber's case, his main argument comes down to Sheila going beserk with a gun because there was a family discussion about the beautiful boys into foster care. Can you answer me a few questions please?
Had the boys ever been in foster care?Did Neville and June look after the boys at all?
Did the boys Dad look after them for any length of time (like if Sheila had an episode)?
Did Sheila recieve ongoing care for her menatl health and did she take her medication regularly? Was her mental health well controlled (her schizophrenic/psychotic episodes)?Did Jeremy and Sheila get on? And did Sheila and Jeremy get on with Neville and June?
I know I've heard varying reports that they (the parents) didn't agree with a lot of Jeremy's actions but I suppose that could be said with a lot of parents and kids.

They had been in some type of foster care with a family - so I actually CAN see this conversation taking place, I even think it is probable. Sheila was not doing very well with the boys. They didnīt get to school on time, such things. She couldnīt cope, and I am not sure Colin had the boys that much.

Sheila had asked to have her dose of Haloperidol HALVED, which the doctor then did. That is EXTREMELY dangerous and has in many, many cases led to violence and murder. Andrea Yates had her dose of Haloperidol entirely cut, then she went on to murder her five children. Haloperidol should be reduced very, very gradually. Preferably in a hospital setting, the patient being closely monitored. The recommendation is to cut about 10 mg at a time, then monitor the patient for two weeks, and if the patient is responding well, you can cut 10 mg again - and so forth.
None of that was in place in Sheilaīs case - it was just halved abruptly. You can google Haloperidol, and you will find loads of examples of the awful effects of cutting that medication.
I still fail to see your point Abs. Sheila was mentally ill no doubt about it. Her medication being cut made her uncoordinated and maybe a little withdrawn. Witnesses describe Sheila's behavior that day as 'lively' and happy'
She was away from the stresses and strains of having to deal with looking after the twins by herself for the first time in weeks.
I believe you are trying to suggest that Sheila could of committed the killings. I beg to differ on so many levels. The woman simply could not have committed the murders, no matter how you want to slice it or suggest that her medication had been cut or she was barking at the moon. The physical evidence does NOT point to Sheila but points very strongly to Jeremy Bamber. If you can explain to me how a 8 stone waif can beat a man twice her size and twice her weight  into unconsciousness with the butt of a rifle so viciously that it broke, all without so much as damaging a finely manicured fingernail despite having to reload a rifle at least 3 times, a rifle incidently with a stiff catch, or having absolutely ZERO blood from Nevil on the front of her nightdress, then you may have a point. Just because someone has a mental illness does not make them culpable of murder Abs. No matter what the severity of that illness is.
Starryian..

Offline abs

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2012, 08:08:18 PM »
I obviously don't know who did it - no one but Jeremy knows that for sure.
I have a hard time seeing Sheila doing it - she COULD however, it is not impossible. She was young, Ralph was older, if he had already been shot, he wouldn't have been able to put up as much resistance than normally. She COULD have cleaned up.
I have as hard a time seeing Jeremy do it (alone at least). It is a daunting task to enter a house with two children and THREE adults with the intention of killing them all single handedly. I just cannot fathom how that would be possible at all.
If it was Sheila, she could have quickly shot the boys and only having two adults in the same room to deal with.
Something is missing in both scenarios - I don't think any of us are close to knowing what happened.

Offline Stephanie

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Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2012, 08:11:10 PM »
Abs can you let Andrea know that Grahame is abusing her!

I have contacted the police about what is going on and John nor I nor others are abusing anyone.

This isn't a wind up of any sort and this has been going on for several years now.

@ Andrea - if you are reading this - please ignore any abuse you may receive from the blue forum.

I don't know what is going on over at the Blue Forum but they appear to be nervous about something... Be careful okay...x
"When flying monkeys come calling, just click your ruby slippers together and remember that even narcs can be defeated once you know the truth"

Offline abs

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2012, 08:17:38 PM »
Abs can you let Andrea know that Grahame is abusing her!

I have contacted the police about what is going on and John nor I nor others are abusing anyone.

This isn't a wind up of any sort and this has been going on for several years now.

@ Andrea - if you are reading this - please ignore any abuse you may receive from the blue forum.

I don't know what is going on over at the Blue Forum but they appear to be nervous about something... Be careful okay...x

Hi Steph, I havenīt read on the blue forum today - where is he doing that? I can only contact Andrea through PM or on Youtube. Since you know what is going on, and I donīt, can you contact her yourself?

Offline Stephanie

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  • I was conned by Simon Hall & many others
Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2012, 08:20:20 PM »
Abs can you let Andrea know that Grahame is abusing her!

I have contacted the police about what is going on and John nor I nor others are abusing anyone.

This isn't a wind up of any sort and this has been going on for several years now.

@ Andrea - if you are reading this - please ignore any abuse you may receive from the blue forum.

I don't know what is going on over at the Blue Forum but they appear to be nervous about something... Be careful okay...x

Hi Steph, I havenīt read on the blue forum today - where is he doing that? I can only contact Andrea through PM or on Youtube. Since you know what is going on, and I donīt, can you contact her yourself?

No prob Abs... I'm afraid I don't have time to contact Andrea (I don't actually know her).

I just thought you guys knew one another - nevermind...


"When flying monkeys come calling, just click your ruby slippers together and remember that even narcs can be defeated once you know the truth"

Offline Andrea

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2012, 08:45:11 PM »
Hi Steph, im fine thanks. Are you well?  8)-)))

myself and abs have been turning threads into football commentary, shall i open the pub up?   8((()*/