Author Topic: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber  (Read 71616 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #285 on: April 11, 2018, 03:55:17 PM »
You mean this Worboys link on the 'Why has Bamber campaigned to say he isn't a psychopath' thread?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9346.msg455592#msg455592

Yes I did read it thank you but I don't really see the connection between Worboys and JB?  Worboys admitted to his offences so there's no doubt he was guilty of horrible crimes.  He is (was?) being released because the authorities deem that he has served his punishment, been rehabilitated and is no longer a risk, I assume?  I don't know the original term but it wasn't whole life.   

JB was given a 25 year sentence at trial which was subsequently upgraded to a whole life tariff.  Unless his conviction is overturned he will not be released or his category downgraded other than for the reasons I gave above.  There's little doubt in my mind JB's conviction will be overturned based on results from new forensic tests.  His conviction will be quashed and in the eyes of the law he will be deemed innocent.  Of course some will always believe him guilty no matter how compelling the new evidence but I think they will be a minority.   

No I meant this one on this thread 2nd down 8((()*/

LM you stated: in this thread http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9353.0.html?PHPSESSID=71v242khhcdn5mden96l4t3nm5

"Realistically, I think if I was Bamber's solicitor, I would be telling him that, his appeals aside, the way forward is to work towards rehabilitation within the prison system, as that does provide a route towards more favourable conditions and temporary release privileges.  The obvious difficulty is that he is a child killer, but there are specialist prisons that would accommodate him and it is definitely possible for a Category B prisoner to move straight to a Category D wing in a closed prison and then work towards temporary release. 
His first move is to have his security classification downgraded from A to B, which shouldn't be too difficult given that has happened before and he was only re-categorised after objections from the family.  I'm surprised that is not being pushed more aggressively.


Do you not think Bamber has already considered this, especially in light of his full life tariff?

I've posted this link before but I do think his supporters should consider it https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2018/04/03/warboys-release-quashed-jake-richards/

And have you considered why Bamber hasn't given his supporters the full facts as to why he remains an A-cat prisoner?

I don't think you've fully thought this through


Mob justice (public outcry) will rule out in Bambers case IMO Holly. There's no way he'll ever set foot on terra ferma outside of prison walls

Did you read the Worboys link?


Jake Richards aka John Worboys
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 03:59:23 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #286 on: April 11, 2018, 04:00:36 PM »
 
JB was given a 25 year sentence at trial which was subsequently upgraded to a whole life tariff.  Unless his conviction is overturned he will not be released or his category downgraded other than for the reasons I gave above.   

Why not?

You said:
 "He is (was?) being released because the authorities deem that he has served his punishment, been rehabilitated and is no longer a risk, I assume?  I don't know the original term but it wasn't whole life.   

Don't forget; assume nothing

What does a whole life tariff mean to you and what is a whole life tariff in the real world?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 04:13:02 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #287 on: April 11, 2018, 04:17:54 PM »
Why not?

You said:
 "He is (was?) being released because the authorities deem that he has served his punishment, been rehabilitated and is no longer a risk, I assume?  I don't know the original term but it wasn't whole life.   

Don't forget; assume nothing

What does a whole life tariff mean to you and what is a whole life tariff in the real world?

JB will never be released unless his conviction is quashed.  He is serving a whole life tariff ie a sentence that offers no possibility of parole.   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline LuminousWanderer

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #288 on: April 11, 2018, 04:18:21 PM »
JB is where he is because currently the system sees him as a mass murdering child killer.  I think his conviction will be quashed.  Whilst his conviction is upheld I don't see his category changing unless his health/mobility requires a different environment and then he will no doubt be moved on health and safety grounds.

Prison categorisation is about the public risk associated with escape, and the risk presented by the offender also comes into it.  Since Bamber is under a whole life order, that will inhibit his progress somewhat, but I suspect any attempt to block his progress on that basis alone would be considered unlawful, even if codified into the relevant Prison Service Instructions. 

I don't think any of us know exactly why he is still in Category A, but the point is that Bamber was previously in Category B and this was changed back to Category A, apparently after lobbying from relatives.  I personally would be making a big issue of that.  I see no reason why he can't be in Category B and even lower than that, given that assessments of him confirm he is low risk.  We needn't assume he is guilty or innocent, it's a separate issue.  I have no idea what his solicitors are doing about it, but as far as I can tell nothing is mentioned on his campaign website about any campaign or legal moves to have his categorisation lowered so that he can make progress. And I wouldn't necessarily assume either willingness or competence on the part of solicitors to raise such issues.  That said, he does (or did) have a specialist prison lawyer acting for him.

Despite him being on a whole life order, I think a re-categorisation is possible: Myra Hindley, for instance, was held in a Category C prison.  The Open Estate was introduced during the post-War period to house and accommodate prisoners like Bamber, who have served their time and need to be re-integrated back into the community.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #289 on: April 11, 2018, 04:42:24 PM »
Prison categorisation is about the public risk associated with escape, and the risk presented by the offender also comes into it.  Since Bamber is under a whole life order, that will inhibit his progress somewhat, but I suspect any attempt to block his progress on that basis alone would be considered unlawful, even if codified into the relevant Prison Service Instructions. 

I don't think any of us know exactly why he is still in Category A, but the point is that Bamber was previously in Category B and this was changed back to Category A, apparently after lobbying from relatives.  I personally would be making a big issue of that.  I see no reason why he can't be in Category B and even lower than that, given that assessments of him confirm he is low risk.  We needn't assume he is guilty or innocent, it's a separate issue.  I have no idea what his solicitors are doing about it, but as far as I can tell nothing is mentioned on his campaign website about any campaign or legal moves to have his categorisation lowered so that he can make progress. And I wouldn't necessarily assume either willingness or competence on the part of solicitors to raise such issues.  That said, he does (or did) have a specialist prison lawyer acting for him.

Despite him being on a whole life order, I think a re-categorisation is possible: Myra Hindley, for instance, was held in a Category C prison.  The Open Estate was introduced during the post-War period to house and accommodate prisoners like Bamber, who have served their time and need to be re-integrated back into the community.

If I was JB or advising him, my advice would be shut up and concentrate on your appeal.  Cat A will be his norm so why start rocking the boat and bleating about wanting muesli for breakfast instead of porridge or whatever meagre privileges the upgrade offers.  This will only arm the tabloids: 'Bamber the Beast wants an upgrade to cat B': museli, bottled water, a soft night light, 500 thread count Egyptian cotton bedding, blow up doll and 2 hours of netflix and spotify per week.     

Hindley confessed to her crimes.  JB hasn't because he claims he is innocent.  Big difference.  Was she upgraded to Cat C with the option of avocado on toast for breakfast due to her health?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #290 on: April 11, 2018, 04:54:51 PM »
Most of us will form personal views about the character of fellow posters on the UKJF.  However under no circumstances should these be expressed on the open forum. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #291 on: April 11, 2018, 08:07:49 PM »
JB will never be released unless his conviction is quashed.  He is serving a whole life tariff ie a sentence that offers no possibility of parole.   

Do you really think the extended family would be able to sleep in their beds at night if Jeremy Bamber were ever released?  He is still perceived as a risk to family members and to witnesses who testified against him at his trial.  On that basis he will never get out.   His conviction can never be quashed given the evidence against him.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 08:15:53 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #292 on: April 11, 2018, 09:29:13 PM »
Do you really think the extended family would be able to sleep in their beds at night if Jeremy Bamber were ever released?  He is still perceived as a risk to family members and to witnesses who testified against him at his trial.  On that basis he will never get out.   His conviction can never be quashed given the evidence against him.

The forensic evidence given against JB was from the FSS during the 80's.  Parliament has already acknowledged "high profile quality failures in the 1980s" see 3.3.1:

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmsctech/writev/forensic/m61.htm

I have very good reason to believe new forensic tests will undermine existing tests/results resulting in JB's conviction being overturned.

If JB's conviction is overturned, as I think it will be, those responsible for it arising imo are not the lay witnesses but the defence lawyers, judges and so-called experts at FSS.  Although I think the lay witnesses will become the fall guy in the eyes of many.  The fact is 99.9% of the population currently have no idea who JB is let alone any detail  about his case.  My view is that in this age of social media once JB's conviction is quashed many will take an interest and there will be uproar as most will think 'this could happen to me'!   
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 09:31:14 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline LuminousWanderer

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #293 on: April 12, 2018, 02:01:23 AM »
If I was JB or advising him, my advice would be shut up and concentrate on your appeal.  Cat A will be his norm so why start rocking the boat and bleating about wanting muesli for breakfast instead of porridge or whatever meagre privileges the upgrade offers.  This will only arm the tabloids: 'Bamber the Beast wants an upgrade to cat B': museli, bottled water, a soft night light, 500 thread count Egyptian cotton bedding, blow up doll and 2 hours of netflix and spotify per week.
     

I'm not sure you've actually understood what I was saying in the post above. It's normal for prisoners to be re-categorised.  It has nothing to do with newspapers, whatever they may print. 

Hindley confessed to her crimes.  JB hasn't because he claims he is innocent.  Big difference. 

That has nothing to do with it.  Prisoners who maintain their innocence still make progress.

Was she upgraded to Cat C with the option of avocado on toast for breakfast due to her health?

I'm not really sure what you mean.  Category C is not an 'upgrade'.  It's a lower security prison due to the lower risk of the prisoner. 

Offline LuminousWanderer

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #294 on: April 12, 2018, 02:06:09 AM »
Do you really think the extended family would be able to sleep in their beds at night if Jeremy Bamber were ever released?  He is still perceived as a risk to family members and to witnesses who testified against him at his trial.  On that basis he will never get out.   His conviction can never be quashed given the evidence against him.

But you keep telling us he's guilty, and you're so sure of this?  OK, good!  He's served his time then.  That being the case, why would he ever want to take revenge on people who have justly testified against him?  You could say the same about any such case, where a guilty man serves his time, yet we don't hear about people like Bamber taking revenge after their release from prison.  If he comes out, he'll want to remain free, just like in the vast majority of cases following a long sentence where the released offender doesn't seriously re-offend.  Why would Jeremy Bamber be any different to the majority of such offenders, especially when - as you say - he did it?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 02:09:31 AM by LuminousWanderer »

Offline APRIL

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #295 on: April 12, 2018, 06:47:37 AM »
But you keep telling us he's guilty, and you're so sure of this?  OK, good!  He's served his time then.  That being the case, why would he ever want to take revenge on people who have justly testified against him?  You could say the same about any such case, where a guilty man serves his time, yet we don't hear about people like Bamber taking revenge after their release from prison.  If he comes out, he'll want to remain free, just like in the vast majority of cases following a long sentence where the released offender doesn't seriously re-offend.  Why would Jeremy Bamber be any different to the majority of such offenders, especially when - as you say - he did it?


HAS he served his time, though? The sentencing judge handed down a MINIMUM of 25 years along with the rider that it remained to be seen whether it would ever be considered that it was safe to release him.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #296 on: April 12, 2018, 09:18:59 AM »
"A very different case was made for Bamber, who has been a model prisoner. The submission to the European court quotes neuropsychologist Dr Arthur Anderson: "It is my opinion that Mr Jeremy Bamber is at low risk for reoffending at present. He possesses no negative behavioural, affective, cognitive or personality indicators to indicate risk to others or risk of deterioration if he were to be recategorised as a category B prisoner … [he is] only at risk if he is left as a category A prisoner; at risk of deteriorating depression."
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2012/dec/05/whole-life-prison-sentence-human-rights


Dr Arthur J Anderson is a Consultant Clinical Psychologist and Neuropsychologist.
Publisher & Editor of www.psychosocial.com

Founding Member of Cosmeticsupport.com.
Passionate about the safety of male & female cosmetic patients
Trustee &
Co-Founder
Arthur J Anderson, PhD, CPsychol, AFBPSsS, CSci
http://www.cosmeticsupport.com/about-us.html

Co-Founder
Deborah Sandler
"I love two things:  beauty and psychology.
I am a member of:
All Party Parliamentary Group Be Real Campaign
Expert Reference Group - Health Education England (NWL)
British Standards Institute Committee for aesthetic patient safety
British Association of Counselling and Psychotherapy
Counselling-directory.org

CosmeticSupport was co-founded with Dr Art Anderson (PhD, CPsychol, AFBPsS, CSci) The focus is on clear communication as a road to patient safety. . The All Party Parliamentary Group (Be Real Campaign) invited me to the Palace of Westminster to give evidence and afterwards recommended our service on pages 45 and 53 of their report: http://www.berealcampaign.co.uk/assets/filemanager/documents/appg_body_image_final.pdf. Whether you are a patient or a professional, our teaching will help you get the best out of the choices you make.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dr-art-anderson-phd-cpsychol-afbpss-csci-b05b1225
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 11:00:26 AM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #297 on: April 12, 2018, 11:01:44 AM »
"A very different case was made for Bamber, who has been a model prisoner. The submission to the European court quotes neuropsychologist Dr Arthur Anderson: "It is my opinion that Mr Jeremy Bamber is at low risk for reoffending at present. He possesses no negative behavioural, affective, cognitive or personality indicators to indicate risk to others or risk of deterioration if he were to be recategorised as a category B prisoner … [he is] only at risk if he is left as a category A prisoner; at risk of deteriorating depression."
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2012/dec/05/whole-life-prison-sentence-human-rights


Dr Arthur J Anderson is a Consultant Clinical Psychologist and Neuropsychologist.
Publisher & Editor of www.psychosocial.com

Founding Member of Cosmeticsupport.com.
Passionate about the safety of male & female cosmetic patients
Trustee &
Co-Founder
Arthur J Anderson, PhD, CPsychol, AFBPSsS, CSci
http://www.cosmeticsupport.com/about-us.html

Co-Founder
Deborah Sandler
"I love two things:  beauty and psychology.
I am a member of:
All Party Parliamentary Group Be Real Campaign
Expert Reference Group - Health Education England (NWL)
British Standards Institute Committee for aesthetic patient safety
British Association of Counselling and Psychotherapy
Counselling-directory.org

CosmeticSupport was co-founded with Dr Art Anderson (PhD, CPsychol, AFBPsS, CSci) The focus is on clear communication as a road to patient safety. . The All Party Parliamentary Group (Be Real Campaign) invited me to the Palace of Westminster to give evidence and afterwards recommended our service on pages 45 and 53 of their report: http://www.berealcampaign.co.uk/assets/filemanager/documents/appg_body_image_final.pdf. Whether you are a patient or a professional, our teaching will help you get the best out of the choices you make.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dr-art-anderson-phd-cpsychol-afbpss-csci-b05b1225

On what basis did Dr Anderson form his expert opinion?

The lies of Jeremy Bamber?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline John

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #298 on: April 12, 2018, 01:53:14 PM »
Posters are reminded to comment strictly according to the thread topic otherwise posts run the risk of being expunged.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Lies of Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #299 on: April 12, 2018, 04:07:32 PM »
The log states that at "5:25 Firearms team are in conversation with A PERSON from inside the FARM" (they were, they were being briefed by Bamber JUST before they approached to gain entry). Then a CLEAR distinction is made in the next line "Challenge to PERSONS inside the HOUSE met with no response". Person and persons and farm and house are distinguished! It's just another attempt to bend the truth!

A take it that this is where the myth was born that police were in conversation with someone inside the farmhouse?  Many thanks for clearing that up Caroline.  👍
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!