Is Jeremy Bamber a psychopath?

[buddy]

Hi Wonderful Buddy

Hi jackie hope you are well.
Multiple answers here. Buddies tooth is still there. I tried to get him to tug on my wifes drawers, but he threw up, so I tried my socks, but had the same affect. The yorkies have had a gutfull of chicken today so they will be farting for England in the morning.
I have bought a yorky/ cross. [how do you spell chiowa], but that is what he is. A right gent, I love them all. Soft as s*** I know. The last yorky I got is in front of me on his back, feet in the air, and nuts on display. Bless him.

[jackiepreece]

Buddy Yorkies are adorable aren't they but really I love all dogs, I am glad you have your new puppy xxx

[starryian]

Thanks Frank, what a hullabaloo all the same and if I know Jeremy Bamber he will insist on going through every stage too if the previous one fails.  Must be costing McKay a fortune in lost fees.

I appreciate the clarity with which you explain these proceedings Frank.

I'll say it again  -  look at the Rettendon murders. Hours after those men were shot, they leaked bright red blood on the morgue tables. That would help to explain Ralph's blood loss from his head injuries, and the blood on Sheila's face in the mortuary still image. She was never in the kitchen, or on the bed, and there was never any CPR performed on her. QED.
Difference was though Pugs the bodies of the victims in the Rettendon  murders  had been found in sub zero temperatures. The Bamber family deaths, as you know occured in August.
Nice to cross swords again Pugs

I'm not sure if temperature has anything to do with it, Cliff. There was condensation on what was left of the windows, it was an enclosed space in the Range Rover, the bodies were large and clothed. Obvious rigor and livor, but the bodies still bled.

Good points Shona,
For those not familiar with the case the Rettendon murders were every bit as gruesome as the White House Farm killings. Three notorious drug dealers were found dead in a range rover, parked in a quiet country lane in Essex in December 1995. All three were shot multiple times with a double-barrelled shotgun. The bodies were photographed at the morgue still bleeding some hours after their deaths. Jack Whomes and Michael Steele were later convicted of the triple murders and sentenced to life.

[buddy]

I don't think Steele, or whomes were involved. Yes Steele was a wrongun, but had no history of violence.
In my humble opinion it was all to do with Leah Betts, the coppers daughter. I forget the name of the grass, but he got away with drug smuggling for giving evidence against Steele, and Whomes.
They did not have multiple wounds, but were clinicly shot. In fact the driver of the landrover still had his hands on the wheel, they never knew what happened.
According to the time line they had laid there for some hours before being found, and it was a freezing night.
This being the case blood would flow again once the bodies were taken to the morgue, and they started to defrost again so to speak.
The murdered men had many enemies, and it was only a matter of time before they were wiped out.
My son knows Pat Tates brother, and he does not think that Steele, and Whomes are responsible. In fact the brother of Jack Whomes [John] said he was a lousy shot, and he would have been asked to do the job.
The pair have never admitted to guilt, and this will impact on any attempt for parole.

[starryian]

I don't think Steele, or whomes were involved. Yes Steele was a wrongun, but had no history of violence.
In my humble opinion it was all to do with Leah Betts, the coppers daughter. I forget the name of the grass, but he got away with drug smuggling for giving evidence against Steele, and Whomes.
They did not have multiple wounds, but were clinicly shot. In fact the driver of the landrover still had his hands on the wheel, they never knew what happened.
According to the time line they had laid there for some hours before being found, and it was a freezing night.
This being the case blood would flow again once the bodies were taken to the morgue, and they started to defrost again so to speak.
The murdered men had many enemies, and it was only a matter of time before they were wiped out.
My son knows Pat Tates brother, and he does not think that Steele, and Whomes are responsible. In fact the brother of Jack Whomes [John] said he was a lousy shot, and he would have been asked to do the job.
The pair have never admitted to guilt, and this will impact on any attempt for parole.

Thank you for that Buddy, I am not too familiar with the case. I am sure however, that Pat Tate and Tony Tucker were shot more than once? The bodies were not frozen, in fact heat from the bodies caused condensation to build up on the inside of the glass.
The case has always seemed a strange one. They were convicted on the word of a well-known criminal and supergrass Darren Nicholls and from what little I have read it would appear that the two convicted men do have a case for a re-trial. Nicholls had claimed the killings took place between 6.45pm and 7pm. But not a single gunshot was heard during that time, despite experts saying the noise from the shots should have been audible a mile away. However, at about midnight, an independent witness heard about six gunshots in the area of Rettendon.
So lots of uncertainty and doubt which probably a re-trial would help to clarify.

Thanks for your points Buddy.

[Dillon]

If you would like to read something really gut wrenching I suggest a glance at Bamber's latest blog today. We should be saddened at how this poor man is grieving the loss of the 5 members of his family nearly 27 years ago. LIKE HELL ! His case has been looked at time and time again and the consistent conclusion has been that his conviction was safe. Another 27 years to go if you can survive that long.

[Andrea]

There is a suggestion on the blue forum that Sheila smoked cigars? A little unusual for a woman.
Has anyone that knew sheila confirmed that she smoked cigars, is it in a statement somewhere?

[John]

If you would like to read something really gut wrenching I suggest a glance at Bamber's latest blog today. We should be saddened at how this poor man is grieving the loss of the 5 members of his family nearly 27 years ago. LIKE HELL ! His case has been looked at time and time again and the consistent conclusion has been that his conviction was safe. Another 27 years to go if you can survive that long.

Thank you for pointing this out Dillon.  I believe it is worth reposting here but be warned if you have just had supper, best to have a bucket handy.

[Dillon]

If you would like to read something really gut wrenching I suggest a glance at Bamber's latest blog today. We should be saddened at how this poor man is grieving the loss of the 5 members of his family nearly 27 years ago. LIKE HELL ! His case has been looked at time and time again and the consistent conclusion has been that his conviction was safe. Another 27 years to go if you can survive that long.

Thank you for pointing this out Dillon.  I believe it is worth reposting here but be warned if you have just had supper, best to have a bucket handy.

Thank you John for putting a copy of Emilia di Girolamo's little deluded piece on Jeremy's blog. Who are these people who enable Jeremy's lies and deception  ? The only tears that Bamber may weep today on the 27th anniversary of his killing spree may be that he cocked his plan up so badly by trying to blame his poor sister with that infamous alleged telephone call from Nevill. A disgusting and cowardly act .   

[sika]

I don't think Steele, or whomes were involved. Yes Steele was a wrongun, but had no history of violence.
In my humble opinion it was all to do with Leah Betts, the coppers daughter. I forget the name of the grass, but he got away with drug smuggling for giving evidence against Steele, and Whomes.
They did not have multiple wounds, but were clinicly shot. In fact the driver of the landrover still had his hands on the wheel, they never knew what happened.
According to the time line they had laid there for some hours before being found, and it was a freezing night.
This being the case blood would flow again once the bodies were taken to the morgue, and they started to defrost again so to speak.
The murdered men had many enemies, and it was only a matter of time before they were wiped out.
My son knows Pat Tates brother, and he does not think that Steele, and Whomes are responsible. In fact the brothe
 Jack Whomes [John] said he was a lousy shot, and he would have been asked to do the job.
The pair have never admitted to guilt, and this will impact on any attempt for parole.

Thank you for that Buddy, I am not too familiar with the case. I am sure however, that Pat Tate and Tony Tucker were shot more than once? The bodies were not frozen, in fact heat from the bodies caused condensation to build up on the inside of the glas
The case has always seemed a strange one. They were convicted on the word of a well-known criminal and supergrass Darren Nicholls and from what little I have read it would appear that the two convicted men do have a case for a re-trial. Nicholls had claimed the killings took place between 6.45pm and 7pm. But not a single gunshot was heard during that time, despite experts saying the noise from the shots should have been audible a mile away. However, at about midnight, an independent witness heard about six gunshots in the area of Rettendon.
So lots of uncertainty and doubt which probably a re-trial would help to clarify.

Thanks for your points Buddy.

Buddy is way off the mark with his assessment of the Rettendon case.  I have read a great deal about this case and can confirm that just about everything that Buddy has stated is factually wrong.

This case was similar to Bamber's , in that there was no forensic evidence to link them to the scene of the murder.  Similar also in the fact that there was overwhelming, incriminating, circumstantial evidence. 

The glamorisation of these gangster related crimes confuses this particular case even further.  People would rather believe that a big London gang was responsible for these murders and nobody is in a rush to deny it because it adds to their 'kudos'.

Steele was/is indeed a wrongun, he had previous convictions for drug importation as well as violence.  He is, by all accounts, a very clever man and thought that he could outwit the police.  Essex Police relied heavily on telephone records with which they could retrospectively,track all the protagonists for weeks prior to and after the murders.

Their conviction is as safe as houses.

Nicholls (the supergrass) was sentenced for his part in the drug importations, due to the amount of time he spent on remand, he was released after his trial.  He is currently living under the witness protection program.

[starryian]

I don't think Steele, or whomes were involved. Yes Steele was a wrongun, but had no history of violence.
In my humble opinion it was all to do with Leah Betts, the coppers daughter. I forget the name of the grass, but he got away with drug smuggling for giving evidence against Steele, and Whomes.
They did not have multiple wounds, but were clinicly shot. In fact the driver of the landrover still had his hands on the wheel, they never knew what happened.
According to the time line they had laid there for some hours before being found, and it was a freezing night.
This being the case blood would flow again once the bodies were taken to the morgue, and they started to defrost again so to speak.
The murdered men had many enemies, and it was only a matter of time before they were wiped out.
My son knows Pat Tates brother, and he does not think that Steele, and Whomes are responsible. In fact the brothe
 Jack Whomes [John] said he was a lousy shot, and he would have been asked to do the job.
The pair have never admitted to guilt, and this will impact on any attempt for parole.

Thank you for that Buddy, I am not too familiar with the case. I am sure however, that Pat Tate and Tony Tucker were shot more than once? The bodies were not frozen, in fact heat from the bodies caused condensation to build up on the inside of the glas
The case has always seemed a strange one. They were convicted on the word of a well-known criminal and supergrass Darren Nicholls and from what little I have read it would appear that the two convicted men do have a case for a re-trial. Nicholls had claimed the killings took place between 6.45pm and 7pm. But not a single gunshot was heard during that time, despite experts saying the noise from the shots should have been audible a mile away. However, at about midnight, an independent witness heard about six gunshots in the area of Rettendon.
So lots of uncertainty and doubt which probably a re-trial would help to clarify.

Thanks for your points Buddy.

Buddy is way off the mark with his assessment of the Rettendon case.  I have read a great deal about this case and can confirm that just about everything that Buddy has stated is factually wrong.

This case was similar to Bamber's , in that there was no forensic evidence to link them to the scene of the murder.  Similar also in the fact that there was overwhelming, incriminating, circumstantial evidence. 

The glamorisation of these gangster related crimes confuses this particular case even further.  People would rather believe that a big London gang was responsible for these murders and nobody is in a rush to deny it because it adds to their 'kudos'.

Steele was/is indeed a wrongun, he had previous convictions for drug importation as well as violence.  He is, by all accounts, a very clever man and thought that he could outwit the police.  Essex Police relied heavily on telephone records with which they could retrospectively,track all the protagonists for weeks prior to and after the murders.

Their conviction is as safe as houses.

Nicholls (the supergrass) was sentenced for his part in the drug importations, due to the amount of time he spent on remand, he was released after his trial.  He is currently living under the witness protection program.

Thank you for that Sika,
That was so interesting. It goes to show you how cases can be misinterpreted. I will have to study-up on the case to keep up.  I watched a few documentaries on this and Whomes & Steele swore their innocence (particularly Whomes who was heard crying on the phone to his mother from prison)
Are they due a CCRC inquest or have they already had one Sika? Do you know?

Thanks for setting me straight on that one Sika. Top respect 

[sika]

Hi Ian,

I found this to be a very interesting case.  I was particularly drawn to it because of the doubt raised by many over the convictions.  As with Bamber, the more I read, the more I was convinced of their guilt.  Just like the Bamber case, because there was nothing to forensically link them to the crime, they take advantage of this by trying to get out on a technicality.  They are currently working on submissions to he CCRC.  I have read that the main plank of this will centre around the mobile telephone belonging to one of the victims.  It is being suggested that as technology has evolved, more information has been retrieved from the phone.  Sounds like complete bull to me.

Throughout their police interviews, both Steele and Wholmes declined to answer any questions. 
Steele's alibi was proved to be false.
Phone records place Nicholls and Wholmes in Rettendon at the time of the murders.
Steele was told in advance of the murders that Pat Tate was intending to kill HIM!

The phone records and the detailed evidence of Nicholls really did for Steele and Wholmes.  Although they did make mistakes, overall this was a good investigation by Essex Police.

Again, like the Bamber case, the documentaries that occasionally pop up should be viewed with great caution.  I don't need to tell you this I know, but the only place to start with these cases is with the official documentation.  I will now attempt to provide a link to some good info on this case.  Don't hold your breath though!!

http://www.bernardomahoney.com/rrmurders/documents.shtml

[starryian]

Hi Ian,

I found this to be a very interesting case.  I was particularly drawn to it because of the doubt raised by many over the convictions.  As with Bamber, the more I read, the more I was convinced of their guilt.  Just like the Bamber case, because there was nothing to forensically link them to the crime, they take advantage of this by trying to get out on a technicality.  They are currently working on submissions to he CCRC.  I have read that the main plank of this will centre around the mobile telephone belonging to one of the victims.  It is being suggested that as technology has evolved, more information has been retrieved from the phone.  Sounds like complete bull to me.

Throughout their police interviews, both Steele and Wholmes declined to answer any questions. 
Steele's alibi was proved to be false.
Phone records place Nicholls and Wholmes in Rettendon at the time of the murders.
Steele was told in advance of the murders that Pat Tate was intending to kill HIM!

The phone records and the detailed evidence of Nicholls really did for Steele and Wholmes.  Although they did make mistakes, overall this was a good investigation by Essex Police.

Again, like the Bamber case, the documentaries that occasionally pop up should be viewed with great caution.  I don't need to tell you this I know, but the only place to start with these cases is with the official documentation.  I will now attempt to provide a link to some good info on this case.  Don't hold your breath though!!

http://www.bernardomahoney.com/rrmurders/documents.shtml

Brilliant Sika thanks,
I will read this with avid interest. Does sound like another Bamber case doesn't it? Some of the denials and reasons why they are 'innocent' certainly ring a bell.
Thanks again Sika. Maybe we could discuss this more a little later when I am well-versed with the case?
 

[jackiepreece]

It's the same old story.  Miscall the police for everything but the minute they are in difficulties who do they call?   

Re your comments above I can only go by my recent experiences with police and there handling of a complaint of mine when I was threatened

It's gradually getting sorted but my complaint is now over a year old and the police/IPCC have had 3 attempts to get it sorted but have failed and we are on the fourth attempt.
In their latest attempt they haven't even got the names right.
3 complaints upheld 7 to go till I am satisfied.

As for the police in general there are good policeman out there and I have a friend who is a policewomen in a very rough area so I know how tough the job is.

As for comments about Mark Williams Thomas earlier Mark told me on the phone that he was convinced Jeremy was innocent. I asked the question I wanted to know.  Whatever anyone on here thinks about Mark I really like him and I Know he only wants to get to the truth.
You could hardly call his documentary biased towards Jeremy.

[Tim Invictus]

It's the same old story.  Miscall the police for everything but the minute they are in difficulties who do they call?   

Re your comments above I can only go by my recent experiences with police and there handling of a complaint of mine when I was threatened

It's gradually getting sorted but my complaint is now over a year old and the police/IPCC have had 3 attempts to get it sorted but have failed and we are on the fourth attempt.
In their latest attempt they haven't even got the names right.
3 complaints upheld 7 to go till I am satisfied.

As for the police in general there are good policeman out there and I have a friend who is a policewomen in a very rough area so I know how tough the job is.

As for comments about Mark Williams Thomas earlier Mark told me on the phone that he was convinced Jeremy was innocent. I asked the question I wanted to know.  Whatever anyone on here thinks about Mark I really like him and I Know he only wants to get to the truth.
You could hardly call his documentary biased towards Jeremy.

You have 10 complaints lodged against  the police!!!!!
 8-)(--)