The Jeremy Supporters : Help, Hindrance or Harmful?

[adam]

The likes of David and Roch are able to post all sorts of whacky theories on Blue as they don't have anyone from the innocent camp to challenge them.

When I challenge David here he refers to me as "catty" and then runs away back to the Blue forum.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8956.msg448211#msg448211

Mike posts his theories on Blue as it's his forum.

Other posters post their crazy theories or 'secret information' claims on Blue because they know they will be allowed to focus on the poster if a guilter disagrees. They will also have Nugs & Lookout supporting them due to 'gut feelings' & conspiracy theories.

[adam]

Lookout reaffirming yesterday she supports Bamber for non evidence reasons -

"For starters I'm a staunch pro-Bamber,always have been and remain to be so. Because I remember these murders as though it were yesterday, and I immediately " sensed " that JB wasn't guilty."

[Nicholas]

I'm not trying to intentionally miss any point.  I have addressed your argument in every particular and then some.  Jeremy Bamber does not have learning difficulties.  He can write letters.  He can think and is of at least average intelligence.  That's enough.  If you're trying to show me that he is, or might be, a psychopath, I have already addressed what I think about this unsupported opinion or speculation of yours, which in my view rises only a little above the intellectual level of one of those American true crime thrillers they used to broadcast on a Wednesday night.  In any event, his lawyers will never submit him to a brain scan to prove or disprove this, even if it could be provable, and even if they did for some reason, brain scans that align or not with a thesis of psychopathy are not in and of themselves proof of anything in the context of this case because the other evidence would still stand. 

From the defence point-of-view, I can imagine a scenario where the defence argue at appeal that brain scans show a diminished capacity for planning, but that would have to be in conjunction with other evidence that actually casts doubt on the conviction, which in turn raises a doubt, Q.E.D., about why the neuoscientific evidence would be needed at all.  Either the conviction is legally safe or not.  Brain scans in and of themselves won't cast doubt on the conviction, and you also have to contend with the problem that this is 33 years and counting after the event. 

That's apart from my belief, as stated above, that neuroscience is not rigorous, and in the sense of the type of evidence you propose, it wouldn't be taken seriously - regardless of the reason for it.  More importantly, it wouldn't affect his conviction one way or the other, as it's not relevant given that other evidence does prove he was the perpetrator.  You may of course disagree with my legal prognosis.

More flaws

[Nicholas]

Lookout reaffirming yesterday she supports Bamber for non evidence reasons -

"For starters I'm a staunch pro-Bamber,always have been and remain to be so. Because I remember these murders as though it were yesterday, and I immediately " sensed " that JB wasn't guilty."

  don't Adam 

[Nicholas]

The likes of David and Roch are able to post all sorts of whacky theories on Blue as they don't have anyone from the innocent camp to challenge them.

When I challenge David here he refers to me as "catty" and then runs away back to the Blue forum.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8956.msg448211#msg448211

Here's another made by Roch yesterday:

"Yeah like I tried to express: in this case, you either support the living relatives or you respect the right of the deceased relatives to have the true facts of their deaths known.  But you can't do both.http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8796.msg436642.html#msg436642

YOU can't do both Roch

[Nicholas]

The latest propaganda https://mobile.twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/982929278412214272/photo/1

My Grandparents could not only remember what they did as children but could remember specific smells and sounds as though it were yesterday. What utter nonsense!

[Nicholas]

Amen re Michael O'Brien's spiel http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9356.msg436837.html?PHPSESSID=3lvu8kmur28v63rnvd370g2ps4#msg436837

A stratagem to further ones owns self interests. Same applies to Patron Michelle Bates.

Both appear preoccupied with themselves and in so being have disregarded the truth and the interests and well-being of others in order to further their own causes. 

[Nicholas]

Excluding practicing lawyers and experts (eg Michael Turner QC and Peter Sutherst both on record saying they believe JB innocent or words to this effect) I guess supporters can be broken down into two groups: those with somewhat of a public profile such as Andrew Hunter MP and actress Susan Penhaligon and those without a public profile such as members of the CT and Mike Tesko.  The group without a public profile attempt to engage with the public: the CT with JB's website, bake-off, graveside reading and letters to the Justic Sec etc and Mike with his forum and youtube vids.  Supporting posters on forums mostly post under first names, derivatives or pseudonyms so don't count.   

Those claiming to be the victim of a MoJ usually have family support either the entire family or a dedicated family member or two eg:

Stefan Kiszko - mother

Sally Clark - husband and father.  In this case SC's husband was a solictor and her father a serving police officer. 

Michael Hickey - mother

Stephen Downing - parents and sister

Sam Hallam - family

Often family members are supported by a significant other:

- Stefan Kiszko - solicitor - Campbell Malone

- Michael Hickey - journalist - Paul Foot

- Stephen Downing - journalist - Don Hale

- Sam Hallam - Actor - Ray Winstone and Playwright - Tess Berry-Hart

Looking further afield the likes of David Bain benefitted from the support of NZ's All Black rugby player Joe Karam.  Amanda Knox benefitted from a very capable group known as 'Judges For Justice'.

Is JB's case a dead duck, long in the water?  Or has JB been disadvantaged, harmed even, by supporters past and present and/or lack of a capable, credible, long-term supporter(s) prepared to commit?   

19

Holly you started this thread to discuss whether or not Bambers supporters were a help hindrance or causing him harm

I think it's important to look alongside what LM has showed us over the two forums; the facts relating to the conviction, then compare that with Bambers campaign.

Underneath it all lies the truth. It's then a case of separating what is fact and what is fiction, separating the wheat from the chaff.

Then to ask the same questions of Bamber re your thread title. What has helped, hindered and harmed him?

There's the legal argument then the moral argument.

[Nicholas]

Excluding practicing lawyers and experts (eg Michael Turner QC and Peter Sutherst both on record saying they believe JB innocent or words to this effect) I guess supporters can be broken down into two groups: those with somewhat of a public profile such as Andrew Hunter MP and actress Susan Penhaligon and those without a public profile such as members of the CT and Mike Tesko.  The group without a public profile attempt to engage with the public: the CT with JB's website, bake-off, graveside reading and letters to the Justic Sec etc and Mike with his forum and youtube vids.  Supporting posters on forums mostly post under first names, derivatives or pseudonyms so don't count.   

Those claiming to be the victim of a MoJ usually have family support either the entire family or a dedicated family member or two eg:

Stefan Kiszko - mother

Sally Clark - husband and father.  In this case SC's husband was a solictor and her father a serving police officer. 

Michael Hickey - mother

Stephen Downing - parents and sister

Sam Hallam - family

Often family members are supported by a significant other:

- Stefan Kiszko - solicitor - Campbell Malone

- Michael Hickey - journalist - Paul Foot

- Stephen Downing - journalist - Don Hale

- Sam Hallam - Actor - Ray Winstone and Playwright - Tess Berry-Hart

Looking further afield the likes of David Bain benefitted from the support of NZ's All Black rugby player Joe Karam.  Amanda Knox benefitted from a very capable group known as 'Judges For Justice'.

Is JB's case a dead duck, long in the water?  Or has JB been disadvantaged, harmed even, by supporters past and present and/or lack of a capable, credible, long-term supporter(s) prepared to commit?   

19

What did all these people know of the person they were fighting for? Who knew them best (the appellants)?What were their motivations and agendas for fighting in the first place?

[Nicholas]

Someone should alert the press as to what is posted on there, I mean the usual drivel is bad enough but death threats to the surviving Bamber relatives? And it's on a site that is paid for by a former member of Bambers legal team!

Maybe the same person who recently (As in today) got a Jeremy Bamber fundraising event shut down - should reach out to the press on this. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1259.msg39522.html#msg39522
Offline Gemini
Junior Member
**
Posts: 52

HELLO EVERYONE
« on: August 03, 2011, 07:00:PM »
"Good afternoon everyone, I have been reading for the forum for sometime now and recently have been tempted to post, even it was to say some choice words to PoorBambi!!!!   Some of you know me from the FB Innocent Page and I obviously firmly believe that Jeremy is innocent.  I know the case pretty well having read several books and all the documents/statements posted.  Not sure I can add anything intelligent to the debate but I will certainly try.   I continue to learn something new everyday from the posts made and certainly think of it as valuable information for the most part.   BTW Jackie is my forum crush (what tenacity!) and Mike is a hero in my book.   Thanks Tru


So Tru (Short for Trudi Benjamin?) says her hero is a man who "threatens to kill" JM and co 

And a forum crush on Jackie 


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1696.msg52275.html#msg52275
"http://ww.wsd1.org/contacts/contacts.htm

"Not hard to find her on the internet.  I wonder if she would be in the position she is now with convictions for robbery and cheque book fraud and without a tidy sum to set her up.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2580.msg80447.html#msg80447

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48100.html#msg48100

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48183.html#msg48183

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1710.msg52906.html#msg52906

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2599.msg81646.html#msg81646

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1707.msg52533.html#msg52533

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2062.0

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2025.msg62176.html#msg62176


"No reply and maybe it wasn't the wisest choice but I agree that a major celeb might be a good thing.  Especially since any credibility Bob Wofflechops added has sadly been wiped out!

"I think it's perfectly natural that Jeremy would write to the relatives looking for answers and imploring them to tell the truth.  I'm sure they would find this very unpleasant and threatening purely because they were sent.  I bet they wish he would just shut up.
 
"Jeremy works on his case for hours and hours every day and I'm sure is angry but what good would it be if he fell apart and let the system eat him alive.  He choses to fight and he has never given up.  The justice system is against him and he has and will continue to do everything in his power to see his sentence over turned.  Jackie and Mike aren't his bitches (pardon the expression!), just incredible human beings who believe a terrible miscarriage of justice has occurred and go above and beyond to help.   Rant over :o

"I'm sorry but I can't help myself but I always refer to her as "Fugly Muggly". http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1319.msg40974.html#msg40974

[Nicholas]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1259.msg39522.html#msg39522
Offline Gemini
Junior Member
**
Posts: 52

HELLO EVERYONE
« on: August 03, 2011, 07:00:PM »
"Good afternoon everyone, I have been reading for the forum for sometime now and recently have been tempted to post, even it was to say some choice words to PoorBambi!!!!   Some of you know me from the FB Innocent Page and I obviously firmly believe that Jeremy is innocent.  I know the case pretty well having read several books and all the documents/statements posted.  Not sure I can add anything intelligent to the debate but I will certainly try.   I continue to learn something new everyday from the posts made and certainly think of it as valuable information for the most part.   BTW Jackie is my forum crush (what tenacity!) and Mike is a hero in my book.   Thanks Tru


So Tru (Short for Trudi Benjamin?) says her hero is a man who "threatens to kill" JM and co 

And a forum crush on Jackie 


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1696.msg52275.html#msg52275
"http://ww.wsd1.org/contacts/contacts.htm

"Not hard to find her on the internet.  I wonder if she would be in the position she is now with convictions for robbery and cheque book fraud and without a tidy sum to set her up.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2580.msg80447.html#msg80447

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48100.html#msg48100

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1569.msg48183.html#msg48183

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1710.msg52906.html#msg52906

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2599.msg81646.html#msg81646

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1707.msg52533.html#msg52533

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2062.0

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2025.msg62176.html#msg62176


"No reply and maybe it wasn't the wisest choice but I agree that a major celeb might be a good thing.  Especially since any credibility Bob Wofflechops added has sadly been wiped out!

"I think it's perfectly natural that Jeremy would write to the relatives looking for answers and imploring them to tell the truth.  I'm sure they would find this very unpleasant and threatening purely because they were sent.  I bet they wish he would just shut up.
 
"Jeremy works on his case for hours and hours every day and I'm sure is angry but what good would it be if he fell apart and let the system eat him alive.  He choses to fight and he has never given up.  The justice system is against him and he has and will continue to do everything in his power to see his sentence over turned.  Jackie and Mike aren't his bitches (pardon the expression!), just incredible human beings who believe a terrible miscarriage of justice has occurred and go above and beyond to help.   Rant over :o

"I'm sorry but I can't help myself but I always refer to her as "Fugly Muggly". http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1319.msg40974.html#msg40974

Wow Tru-di just Wow - you are clearly delusional 

Here's your "hero" Mike aka Nigel

Anthony Pargeter removing .22 rifle from WHF - Firearms Act 1968
« on: Yesterday at 10:22 PM »
"Neville Bamber who was the Chairman of the Witham Magistrates Bench, would never have allowed Anthony Pargeter to take the weapons, accessories, or ammunitions away from the scene, where they were licensed to be kept, under any circumstances..."
MIKE TESKO

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/contents
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:25 PM by Nigel »
 Logged
I slow down for a speeding police car, don't you?

[adam]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-Oq-rvaAhXjLsAKHb2EAOUQFjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3gDiBfKcxtr5YkE8WHleS0&ampcf=1

Michael O'Brien says Bamber is innocent. But does not mention one piece of evidence -


'He said it was "a gut feeling" he had about him and that Bamber was "different to the other prisoners"

"I met Jeremy in Long Lartin prison between 1989 -1996 and it was so obvious that he did not fit in to prison life."

"They say you can spot an innocent man a mile off and they stick out like a sore thumb—Jeremy was certainly in that category."

[Nicholas]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-Oq-rvaAhXjLsAKHb2EAOUQFjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3gDiBfKcxtr5YkE8WHleS0&ampcf=1

Michael O'Brien says Bamber is innocent. But does not mention one piece of evidence -


'He said it was "a gut feeling" he had about him and that Bamber was "different to the other prisoners"

"I met Jeremy in Long Lartin prison between 1989 -1996 and it was so obvious that he did not fit in to prison life."

"They say you can spot an innocent man a mile off and they stick out like a sore thumb—Jeremy was certainly in that category."

This spiel fooled me once Adam when the exact same thing was said about Simon Hall.

Incidentally Dr Michael Naughton and Mike O'Brien are/were close friends. If memory serves me correct Naughton was best man at O'Brien's wedding. You'd have thought after Hall's confession they would have learned some lessons.

"The Incestuous Amplification Effect" http://www.cybercollege.com/ia.htm

n. The reinforcement of set beliefs among like-minded people, leading to miscalculations and errors in judgment.

"Without knowing it, the Columbia investigators were identifying a pervasive social problem, one that unites these examples and that leads to many failures in the public and private sectors. In military circles, this process is called “incestuous amplification.” Among psychologists, it is known as “group polarization.”

In a nutshell: Like-minded people, talking only with one another, usually end up believing a more extreme version of what they thought before they started to talk.
—Cass R. Sunstein, “The Power of Dissent,” Los Angeles Times, September 17, 2003
https://wordspy.com/index.php?word=incestuous-amplification

[Nicholas]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/ex-prisoner-who-time-jeremy-544177.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-Oq-rvaAhXjLsAKHb2EAOUQFjAEegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3gDiBfKcxtr5YkE8WHleS0&ampcf=1

Michael O'Brien says Bamber is innocent. But does not mention one piece of evidence -


'He said it was "a gut feeling" he had about him and that Bamber was "different to the other prisoners"

"I met Jeremy in Long Lartin prison between 1989 -1996 and it was so obvious that he did not fit in to prison life."

"They say you can spot an innocent man a mile off and they stick out like a sore thumb—Jeremy was certainly in that category."

Sounds like Lookout doesn't it http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg455838#msg455838

[adam]

https://youtu.be/wdfmKI2IjEo

This Youtube video from O'Brien is on the OS.

He said there is 'new evidence' he can't disclose which wasn't brought up at trial. I assume it wasn't available in 2012 either. Not sure how this evidence has been obtained in the last 6 years if the police are withholding evidence.

He confirms the real killers of his own crime have not been caught but forensic tests showed him & his two collegues were victims of a MOJ.