Author Topic: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?  (Read 6195 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« on: October 11, 2017, 03:12:24 PM »
From Stephanie Hall today:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8726.msg418152.html#msg418152

How many of the experts have a history of violence?  Simon Hall was convicted of violent offences during his youth and spent time in a youth offenders prison long before he murdered Mrs Albert.  This is conveniently overlooked.  Most men don't have convictions for violence.  If they do it's a red flag for most.  Those who choose to play with fire often get burned.         

At Hall's original trial at Norwich crown court, jurors were told that Albert had been the victim of a "sudden, savage and brutal attack" after a burglary attempt went wrong. They heard that Hall, who had previous convictions for violence, had been out drinking with friends in Ipswich and had an alibi for most of the night and following morning, except between 5.30am and 6.15am, which could have corresponded with the time of Albert's death.   

We know JB admitted to petty crime as did the chief prosecution witness.  This is a world away from violence resulting in a custodial sentence. 

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 05:44:42 PM »
From Stephanie Hall today:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8726.msg418152.html#msg418152

How many of the experts have a history of violence?  Simon Hall was convicted of violent offences during his youth and spent time in a youth offenders prison long before he murdered Mrs Albert.  This is conveniently overlooked.  Most men don't have convictions for violence.  If they do it's a red flag for most.  Those who choose to play with fire often get burned.         

At Hall's original trial at Norwich crown court, jurors were told that Albert had been the victim of a "sudden, savage and brutal attack" after a burglary attempt went wrong. They heard that Hall, who had previous convictions for violence, had been out drinking with friends in Ipswich and had an alibi for most of the night and following morning, except between 5.30am and 6.15am, which could have corresponded with the time of Albert's death.   

We know JB admitted to petty crime as did the chief prosecution witness.  This is a world away from violence resulting in a custodial sentence.

The above link is no longer working but here's the screenshot. 

Forgot to add the link to the Guardian article about Hall's previous.  Second from last para:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/08/man-confesses-murder-decade-clear-name

Stephanie you were not conned.  You allowed yourself to become emotionally involved with a man behind bars who had convictions for violence before he brutally murdered Mrs Albert.  Why not take some responsibility and ask yourself why you sought out a 'relationship' with such an invidual?
   

Offline sika

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2017, 11:12:06 PM »
 %56&
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 05:01:42 AM by sika »

Offline ActualMat

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 09:00:40 PM »
The above link is no longer working but here's the screenshot. 

Forgot to add the link to the Guardian article about Hall's previous.  Second from last para:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/08/man-confesses-murder-decade-clear-name

Stephanie you were not conned.  You allowed yourself to become emotionally involved with a man behind bars who had convictions for violence before he brutally murdered Mrs Albert.  Why not take some responsibility and ask yourself why you sought out a 'relationship' with such an invidual?
 

A bith harsh isn't it?  The previous convicitons of violence have nothing to do with the murder case, no one is denying previous convictions.
Stephanie believed SH innocent of MURDER. He claimed he was, he lied - sounds like she was conned to me.


Offline Caroline

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 10:05:18 PM »
A bith harsh isn't it?  The previous convicitons of violence have nothing to do with the murder case, no one is denying previous convictions.
Stephanie believed SH innocent of MURDER. He claimed he was, he lied - sounds like she was conned to me.

I agree Mat, Steph didn't 'sought' out a relationship with a stranger, she knew SH before his conviction. Holly, If you can believe that a stranger (Bamber) is innocent, not sure why you find it hard to believe that Steph believed a person she knew? Many teenagers have violence in their history and a small fraction of those go on to be murderers. 

Offline ActualMat

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 10:21:21 PM »
I agree Mat, Steph didn't 'sought' out a relationship with a stranger, she knew SH before his conviction. Holly, If you can believe that a stranger (Bamber) is innocent, not sure why you find it hard to believe that Steph believed a person she knew? Many teenagers have violence in their history and a small fraction of those go on to be murderers.

Yeah, exactly my point. Previous history doesn't mean a person is guilty of every negative thing they're accused of in the future. I think it's fully plausible to accept someone has previous convictions but isn't guilty of murder.

Whether you agreed with Stephanie or not as to SH's innocence... I don't think you can doubt that she believed he was innocent - so yeah she was conned and she's admitted that ever since SH confessed.

Offline John

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 10:55:22 PM »
I used to have many very long telephone conversations with Stephanie about Simon's case at the time of his last appeal.  I am still convinced that Stephanie genuinely loved the guy and believed everything that he told her about the morning Mrs Albert was murdered.  In the beginning I also believed Simon's account of what occurred that morning as the prosecution timings looked weak and there were others in the frame. Over time though I came to suspect that Simon was not being as honest as he could have been and especially so when he admitted to having broke into Zenith double glazing in Ipswich hours before Mrs Albert was murdered.  This admission was promoted as an alibi but it backfired big time and eventually led to him confessing to what actually happened that morning.

I truly believe that Stephanie was misled by Simon and others who convinced her of his innocence despite his proven propensity to violence.  I also believe that certain individuals, whom I cannot name for obvious reasons, lied to police and knew very well that Simon was guilty. They got off Scot free imo but carry a very heavy burden with them to this day.  Had they come clean he might still be alive and a free man today having served his full sentence for murder.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 11:20:55 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Online APRIL

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2017, 01:10:19 PM »
I used to have many very long telephone conversations with Stephanie about Simon's case at the time of his last appeal.  I am still convinced that Stephanie genuinely loved the guy and believed everything that he told her about the morning Mrs Albert was murdered.  In the beginning I also believed Simon's account of what occurred that morning as the prosecution timings looked weak and there were others in the frame. Over time though I came to suspect that Simon was not being as honest as he could have been and especially so when he admitted to having broke into Zenith double glazing in Ipswich hours before Mrs Albert was murdered.  This admission was promoted as an alibi but it backfired big time and eventually led to him confessing to what actually happened that morning.

I truly believe that Stephanie was misled by Simon and others who convinced her of his innocence despite his proven propensity to violence.  I also believe that certain individuals, whom I cannot name for obvious reasons, lied to police and knew very well that Simon was guilty. They got off Scot free imo but carry a very heavy burden with them to this day.  Had they come clean he might still be alive and a free man today having served his full sentence for murder.

It exactly because I believe Steph genuinely loved SH and believed he was innocent, that I'm prepared to give the same benefit of doubt to Julie. NO woman, unless she has the character traits of Myra Hindley, would want to believe that the man she loved was capable of committing murder.

Offline ActualMat

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2017, 01:12:14 PM »
I used to have many very long telephone conversations with Stephanie about Simon's case at the time of his last appeal.  I am still convinced that Stephanie genuinely loved the guy and believed everything that he told her about the morning Mrs Albert was murdered.  In the beginning I also believed Simon's account of what occurred that morning as the prosecution timings looked weak and there were others in the frame. Over time though I came to suspect that Simon was not being as honest as he could have been and especially so when he admitted to having broke into Zenith double glazing in Ipswich hours before Mrs Albert was murdered.  This admission was promoted as an alibi but it backfired big time and eventually led to him confessing to what actually happened that morning.

I truly believe that Stephanie was misled by Simon and others who convinced her of his innocence despite his proven propensity to violence.  I also believe that certain individuals, whom I cannot name for obvious reasons, lied to police and knew very well that Simon was guilty. They got off Scot free imo but carry a very heavy burden with them to this day.  Had they come clean he might still be alive and a free man today having served his full sentence for murder.

A really good overview, John.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2017, 02:21:34 PM »
A really good overview, John.

Hi Mat.  Yes I agree it is a good overview. 

I don't for one minute think SH thought late SH guilty pre confession but personally I wouldn't allow myself to become emotionally involved with someone behind bars if I hadn't been emotionally involved with the person pre prison.  To my mind it's different where there's an existing relationship and he/she decides to stand by his/her man/woman.  Where no such relationship exists I think the chances are it's pretty dysfunctional.  How can you get to know someone to the extent you enter into marriage when the person had had his/her liberty removed?  I would want to check out the wedding tackle before tying the knot.   

Imagine if like this couple you find you're sexually incompatible eg too soft/gentle or too firm/rough you might find upon consummating the marriage you're then filing for divorce:


http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4969900/Doctor-s-indecent-assault-conviction-CONSENSUAL-sex.html&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjO_tvImfDWAhUnCMAKHZZnD20QFggLMAA&usg=AOvVaw27Te53ipyzke4MNSvB3mhv

Offline Angelo222

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2017, 02:39:38 PM »
Hi Mat.  Yes I agree it is a good overview. 

I don't for one minute think SH thought late SH guilty pre confession but personally I wouldn't allow myself to become emotionally involved with someone behind bars if I hadn't been emotionally involved with the person pre prison.  To my mind it's different where there's an existing relationship and he/she decides to stand by his/her man/woman.  Where no such relationship exists I think the chances are it's pretty dysfunctional.  How can you get to know someone to the extent you enter into marriage when the person had had his/her liberty removed?  I would want to check out the wedding tackle before tying the knot.   

Imagine if like this couple you find you're sexually incompatible eg too soft/gentle or too firm/rough you might find upon consummating the marriage you're then filing for divorce:


http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4969900/Doctor-s-indecent-assault-conviction-CONSENSUAL-sex.html&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjO_tvImfDWAhUnCMAKHZZnD20QFggLMAA&usg=AOvVaw27Te53ipyzke4MNSvB3mhv

Stephanie knew Simon long before he was charged with murder.  It was only after his incarceration that she rekindled their previous relationship.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2017, 02:47:02 PM »
A bith harsh isn't it?  The previous convicitons of violence have nothing to do with the murder case, no one is denying previous convictions.
Stephanie believed SH innocent of MURDER. He claimed he was, he lied - sounds like she was conned to me.

No I don't think it's harsh at all.  In the eyes of the law Hall's previous had nothing to do with the murder case hence I'm pretty certain it was withheld from jurors?  Supporting an MoJ is one thing.  Allowing yourself to become emotionally involved is another.

When someone manipulates something or someone to their advantage Roch it's more often than not obvious

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8745.msg419076.html?PHPSESSID=9drpl266l17ffn15mock404344#msg419076

I thought you were intelligent.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8745.msg419077.html?PHPSESSID=9drpl266l17ffn15mock404344#msg419077

I repeat I don't for one minute think SH ever thought Hall guilty.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 03:20:39 PM by Holly Goodhead »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2017, 02:49:31 PM »
Stephanie knew Simon long before he was charged with murder.  It was only after his incarceration that she rekindled their previous relationship.

I thought they were acquainted through work?  I hadn't realised they had some sort of intimate relationship beforehand?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 03:01:54 PM »
I agree Mat, Steph didn't 'sought' out a relationship with a stranger, she knew SH before his conviction. Holly, If you can believe that a stranger (Bamber) is innocent, not sure why you find it hard to believe that Steph believed a person she knew? Many teenagers have violence in their history and a small fraction of those go on to be murderers.

There seems to be some misunderstanding here.  I 100% don't believe SH ever thought Hall guilty before he confessed.  What I struggle to understand is why anyone would want to become emotionally involved with a prisoner to the extent they marry behind bars?

The difference being I support JB as I believe he's a victim of a MoJ.  I'm not emotionally involved with him in any shape or form.

What % of teenage boys spend time in youth offender institutions for violence?

From what I've read I don't believe SH knew Hall pre-prison.  They were acquainted through work.  There's knowing someone and there's knowing someone? 


Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Are there any parallels with the Simon Hall case?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 03:08:57 PM »
It exactly because I believe Steph genuinely loved SH and believed he was innocent, that I'm prepared to give the same benefit of doubt to Julie. NO woman, unless she has the character traits of Myra Hindley, would want to believe that the man she loved was capable of committing murder.

How can you genuinely love someone you barely know? 

I don't believe you can compare JM's relationship with JB and that of SH's with Hall.  It's not a question of whether or not the men are guilty or innocent or what JM/SH believe(d) but the emotional involvement.

JM dated JB for some 18 months and they did all the normal couple stuff.  Hall was behind bars so this was not possible.  I don't believe letters, phone calls and prison visits are a substitute.