Author Topic: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?  (Read 3677 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

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Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« on: January 04, 2018, 06:33:53 PM »
I have been seriously underwhelmed by the quality of JB's defence to date: Ed Lawson, Geoffrey Rivlin and Paul Terzeon (trial, 1989 appeal hearing) and Michael Turner and Michael Duck (2002 appeal hearing).

I had at one time thought about Helena Kennedy but having part read a book she authored, which I found in my Pistol Pete's (PP) book collection, I found her style heavy going.  (PP was delighted to find me reading something other than the Daily Mail)!   

https://www.amazon.com/Eve-Was-Framed-British-Justice/dp/0099224410 

My first choice would be David Martin-Sperry who had some limited involvement with the case in the dim and distant past.  Does anyone have any other suggestions?  If so on what basis do you think he/she is more suitable than DMS?   

http://www.charterchambers.com/our-people/barristers/david-martin-sperry.html

DMS has kind eyes/smile and can ski to instructor level all of which are a bonus! 

32
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 11:15:16 PM by John »
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2018, 08:05:19 PM »
I will have to find out how the rankings work but it appears David Martin-Sperry's chambers are in the 4th quartile (Charter Chambers). 

https://www.chambersandpartners.com/11841/347/editorial/14/2

Michael Turner's chambers are in the 3rd quartile (Garden Chambers).

Samson I see David Hislop's chambers (Doughty Street) (acting for Mark Lundy) are in the 2nd quartile.  Are you able to tell us anything about DH?
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline John

Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 12:34:21 AM »
Does it really matter as there just isn't any evidence to have the conviction deemed unsafe or even overturned.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Caroline

Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 12:24:35 PM »
I have been seriously underwhelmed by the quality of JB's defence to date: Ed Lawson, Geoffrey Rivlin and Paul Terzeon (trial, 1989 appeal hearing) and Michael Turner and Michael Duck (2002 appeal hearing).

I had at one time thought about Helena Kennedy but having part read a book she authored, which I found in my Pistol Pete's (PP) book collection, I found her style heavy going.  (PP was delighted to find me reading something other than the Daily Mail)!   

https://www.amazon.com/Eve-Was-Framed-British-Justice/dp/0099224410 

My first choice would be David Martin-Sperry who had some limited involvement with the case in the dim and distant past.  Does anyone have any other suggestions?  If so on what basis do you think he/she is more suitable than DMS?   

http://www.charterchambers.com/our-people/barristers/david-martin-sperry.html

DMS has kind eyes/smile and can ski to instructor level all of which are a bonus!

There won't be a third appeal.

Offline Samson

Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 05:41:01 PM »
I will have to find out how the rankings work but it appears David Martin-Sperry's chambers are in the 4th quartile (Charter Chambers). 

https://www.chambersandpartners.com/11841/347/editorial/14/2

Michael Turner's chambers are in the 3rd quartile (Garden Chambers).

Samson I see David Hislop's chambers (Doughty Street) (acting for Mark Lundy) are in the 2nd quartile.  Are you able to tell us anything about DH?
David Hislop led a team that engaged the wrong experts on Immunohistochemistry, so lost the 2015 trial. The current defence team are stuck with this error. In my opinion he is solely responsible for Lundy being still in jail. He did a good job before that at the privy council, and is certainly equipped to run a deal like this one.
Joe Karam obtained full power of attorney and wsas thus able to instruct hia lawyers for Bain. He had total case knowledge and total control. Please study Trial by Ambush and learn from this. You might even consider having power of attorney for Jeremy Bamber, I doubt anyone in England comes near to you in overall case knowledge, to get JB out of jail there is no room for tactical errors and oversights.
Whether nosty and I had any influence in Lundy I don't really know, but Jonathan Eaton started his appeal address with a full description of the crime scene, showing it was definite people who were not Mark Lundy were the last people to be in the house. This is vital in my opinion, the silencer is arcane like the spots on Lundy's shirt. Any hearing should start with your proof with complete illustrations, of Nevill coming up the stairs into gunfire. This is an immoveable datapoint for the prosecution to overcome. They can't can they? We saw MikeG's disastrous efforts on IA, where he proved what he was trying to disprove. And how did (killer) JB leave? Not by that kitchen window, JB has proved that with the latch photo. And so on. Crime scene tells the story.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 05:51:28 PM by Samson »

Offline Samson

Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 05:59:10 PM »
And ignore the nonsense about fresh evidence. Open by thundering this paragraph from Lord Kerr in Lundy.

120. The Board considers that the proper basis on which admission of fresh
evidence should be decided is by the application of a sequential series of tests. If the
evidence is not credible, it should not be admitted. If it is credible, the question then
arises whether it is fresh in the sense that it is evidence which could not have been
obtained for the trial with reasonable diligence. If the evidence is both credible and
fresh, it should generally be admitted unless the court is satisfied at that stage that, if
admitted, it would have no effect on the safety of the conviction. If the evidence is
credible but not fresh, the court should assess its strength and its potential impact on
the safety of the conviction. If it considers that there is a risk of a miscarriage of
justice if the evidence is excluded, it should be admitted, notwithstanding that the
evidence is not fresh.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 08:14:56 PM »
David Hislop led a team that engaged the wrong experts on Immunohistochemistry, so lost the 2015 trial. The current defence team are stuck with this error. In my opinion he is solely responsible for Lundy being still in jail. He did a good job before that at the privy council, and is certainly equipped to run a deal like this one.
Joe Karam obtained full power of attorney and wsas thus able to instruct hia lawyers for Bain. He had total case knowledge and total control. Please study Trial by Ambush and learn from this. You might even consider having power of attorney for Jeremy Bamber, I doubt anyone in England comes near to you in overall case knowledge, to get JB out of jail there is no room for tactical errors and oversights.
Whether nosty and I had any influence in Lundy I don't really know, but Jonathan Eaton started his appeal address with a full description of the crime scene, showing it was definite people who were not Mark Lundy were the last people to be in the house. This is vital in my opinion, the silencer is arcane like the spots on Lundy's shirt. Any hearing should start with your proof with complete illustrations, of Nevill coming up the stairs into gunfire. This is an immoveable datapoint for the prosecution to overcome. They can't can they? We saw MikeG's disastrous efforts on IA, where he proved what he was trying to disprove. And how did (killer) JB leave? Not by that kitchen window, JB has proved that with the latch photo. And so on. Crime scene tells the story.

Control...now you're talking my language!  Unfortunately JB has surrounded himself with numpties who he has come to rely upon..
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline APRIL

Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 08:25:37 PM »
Control...now you're talking my language!  Unfortunately JB has surrounded himself with numpties who he has come to rely upon..

Perhaps numpties don't cause him the same stress as do those with more than cotton wool between their ears?

Offline John

Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 11:27:08 PM »
There appears to be some consistency with jeremy Bamber in that every lawyer eventually abandons him.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 11:09:34 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 02:03:51 PM »
There appears to be some consistency with jeremy Bamber in that every lawyer eventually abandons him.

Well JB has been in prison 32 plus years now so it's inevitable there will be a lot of natural wastage too eg death (Lawson) retirement (Rivlin, Smith, Terzeon).  In any event these people are paid to do a job eg defend at trial or appeal.  Then they move on.  If you want continuity you need look no further than Mike!  At least he has remained loyal. 

For the record although Michael Turner failed at JB's 2002 appeal he is on record saying he believes JB innocent:

Does he believe Bamber is innocent? “Passionately.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9716069/Devils-advocate-Michael-Turner-prepares-for-his-toughest-case.html
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline APRIL

Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 03:14:02 PM »
Well JB has been in prison 32 plus years now so it's inevitable there will be a lot of natural wastage too eg death (Lawson) retirement (Rivlin, Smith, Terzeon).  In any event these people are paid to do a job eg defend at trial or appeal.  Then they move on.  If you want continuity you need look no further than Mike!  At least he has remained loyal. 

For the record although Michael Turner failed at JB's 2002 appeal he is on record saying he believes JB innocent:

Does he believe Bamber is innocent? “Passionately.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9716069/Devils-advocate-Michael-Turner-prepares-for-his-toughest-case.html


I don't believe he does. I get the feeling that what he's really passionate about is presenting a case a jury will buy. It has long been my contention that counsel isn't so much interested in innocence or guilt, as putting together a story which will stir a jury to belief what they're putting across. Michael Turner goes a long way to back up my belief.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 05:03:49 PM »

I don't believe he does. I get the feeling that what he's really passionate about is presenting a case a jury will buy. It has long been my contention that counsel isn't so much interested in innocence or guilt, as putting together a story which will stir a jury to belief what they're putting across. Michael Turner goes a long way to back up my belief.

I thought this was how the system was supposed to work?  Defence/prosecution lawyers don't pre-judge innocence or guilt they simply come up with a strategy and arguments designed to win the case where in theory the truth triumphs?  Problem as I see it is that such a system with its processes and systems is not infallible.  In JB's case he wanted George Carmen QC to represent him at trial.  Instead he got Geoffrey Rivlin.  Both men hail from the North of England and both quite small in statue.  I would suggest that's where the similarities end.  Geoffrey Rivlin's strategy of choreographing a correlation between the silencer and the crime instead of repudiating it was only ever going to end in tears for JB.

I only consider myself to be someone of average ability but I've been lucky enough to work alongside some very smart people in retail management and financial services and IMO they would run rings around the likes of Rivlin/Turner. 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 05:10:37 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline APRIL

Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 05:24:07 PM »
I thought this was how the system was supposed to work?  Defence/prosecution lawyers don't pre-judge innocence or guilt they simply come up with a strategy and arguments designed to win the case where in theory the truth triumphs?  Problem as I see it is that such a system with its processes and systems is not infallible.  In JB's case he wanted George Carmen QC to represent him at trial.  Instead he got Geoffrey Rivlin.  Both men hail from the North of England and both quite small in statue.  I would suggest that's where the similarities end.  Geoffrey Rivlin's strategy of choreographing a correlation between the silencer and the crime instead of repudiating it was only ever going to end in tears for JB.

I only consider myself to be someone of average ability but I've been lucky enough to work alongside some very smart people in retail management and financial services and IMO they would run rings around the likes of Rivlin/Turner.

That may be so. However, I've had my theory shot down by a lawyer who perhaps thought me disrespectful to their profession. I also know someone whose daughter is a DEFENCE barrister. She chose that path. She is fully aware that not everyone she defends is innocent. THAT point is, apparently, irrelevant. Her job is to defend.

Offline Holly Goodhead

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Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 05:39:24 PM »
That may be so. However, I've had my theory shot down by a lawyer who perhaps thought me disrespectful to their profession. I also know someone whose daughter is a DEFENCE barrister. She chose that path. She is fully aware that not everyone she defends is innocent. THAT point is, apparently, irrelevant. Her job is to defend.

Yes that's exactly how the system is supposed to work. One of the problems as I see it is that prejudice creeps in.  Something we all experience to some degree consciously or sub-consciously.

I think Nelly Red Belly (NGRB) should undertake copious amounts of CPD or whatever he needs to do to get readmitted to the bar and take on JB's case for the next appeal hearing.   

Justice for Sheila and Jeremy. Victims of poorly arranged baby scoop era adoptions. Australia has apologised. Time for the UK to do the same?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVbokTpYeg http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/92

Offline John

Re: Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2018, 06:56:03 PM »
Yes that's exactly how the system is supposed to work. One of the problems as I see it is that prejudice creeps in.  Something we all experience to some degree consciously or sub-consciously.

I think Nelly Red Belly (NGRB) should undertake copious amounts of CPD or whatever he needs to do to get readmitted to the bar and take on JB's case for the next appeal hearing.

I think NGB has his doubts too.   &%^^
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.