Author Topic: The Smithman e-fits  (Read 11947 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2018, 08:19:26 PM »
So one person is, totally convinced she saw Maddie at a camp site and another person is, 60 /80 he saw gerry

Sceptics, are convinced by one and discard the other
My opinion is they both should, be treated with caution

If anyone is convinced by the Smith sighting it's Operation Grange, who ditched the Tanner sighting for it. As far as I know they've shown no interest whatsoever in the campsite in question.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Davel

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2018, 08:20:40 PM »
If anyone is convinced by the Smith sighting it's Operation Grange, who ditched the Tanner sighting for it. As far as I know they've shown no interest whatsoever in the campsite in question.

But not that it's Gerry
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2018, 08:33:27 PM »
But not that it's Gerry
if it was not Gerry could it have been the guy at the camp?  The logistics of the 3 incidences seems  rather (opinion) impossible especially if we think the Barcelona incident has anything to do with it.
PDL to Barcelona to  Camp Cabopino in 3 days.  Could be done but all one would be doing is driving and sleeping.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 07:36:11 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline jassi

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2018, 08:42:02 PM »
If it's not Gerry then nothing for supporters to get concerned about. On the other hand ....  @)(++(*
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -  nearly 11 years and still no solution.

Offline G-Unit

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2018, 09:03:35 PM »
But not that it's Gerry

It was Mr Smith who said he saw Gerry McCann. Have the MPS given an opinion?
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2018, 09:21:46 PM »
It was Mr Smith who said he saw Gerry McCann. Have the MPS given an opinion?
Did he use those words?  Did he say he saw Gerry McCann.?
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Offline G-Unit

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2018, 09:34:10 PM »
Did he use those words?  Did he say he saw Gerry McCann.?

He actually said;

I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2018, 10:50:46 PM »
It was Mr Smith who said he saw Gerry McCann. Have the MPS given an opinion?

Yes, they have ... and most of us with an interest in Madeleine's case heard it being given in the Crimewatch programme which heralded the launch of a fresh appeal for information.

“Neither her parents or any of the members of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects”
~DCI Andy Redwood

I think that is plain enough ... it also makes milking Mr Smith's obvious error in identification as affirmed in the Final Report from the Policia Judiciaria ... rather akin to innuendo in my opinion and is nodding towards libel.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2018, 11:10:13 PM »
Yes, they have ... and most of us with an interest in Madeleine's case heard it being given in the Crimewatch programme which heralded the launch of a fresh appeal for information.

“Neither her parents or any of the members of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects”
~DCI Andy Redwood

I think that is plain enough ... it also makes milking Mr Smith's obvious error in identification as affirmed in the Final Report from the Policia Judiciaria ... rather akin to innuendo in my opinion and is nodding towards libel.
To me it seems more a matter of two opinions and the likes of ourselves choosing who to side with.
I personally don't like all the aspects of the Final Report and I don't trust the Smiths so I am very  non committed on this issue.  It could be someone who looks 90% like Gerry, and I was pointed out to a photo of a guy today who fitted the bill (which I have to keep confidential) so there are people out there who look very much like Gerry.
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Offline sadie

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2018, 11:11:38 PM »
I suppose the first thing to do is to put the two faces side by side so you don't need to scroll up and down.

Dunno how to make the images come larger ! 

PLEASE COULD SOMEONE (John or Rob or ...?) MODIFY THIS POST TO SHOW THE OPTIONAL LARGER IMAGE WE HAVE ON A PREVIOUS PAGE?  TY

When comparing, I look for widely differing features, similar features and proportions or unusual features.

1)  the dimpled chin on the third image is the most outstanding feature, but that alone would not completely convince me because Smithman kept his head down much of the way and apart from when he was near Aoife and maybe Peter the lighting was not good.   Even when near them it was a very directional light from above and the lower part of his face might have been largely in shadow, but he might have looked up on seeing Aoife.

I think Aoife compiled the LH picture cos there is direct eye contact and a slight smile on his face.  Pretty girl?  Did he look up and take a good look at her? 

2)  The bald head of the third image also appears to exclude the third man.  However over ten years have passesd and it is just possible that Smithman is now bald

I think that probably Martin and his wife compiled the RH image cos with the face looking fat, it means that it could be foreshortened due to Smithman holding his face somewhat down ... and the blurred image indicates poor light IMO.
That foreshortening could explain the difference in apparent width of the face.   It is more likely that Smithman was slimmer faced as in the LH image IMO

3)  Another thing that i notice is the very unusual bulge above Smithmans eyes. 

Those bulges IMO point to two things:
i)  That Smithmans eyes were NOT deeply recessed, but almost "surface" mounted
ii)  That the light was catching the bulges, so therefore he was lit from above.  This reinforces the fact that the LH. drawing was compiled by Aoife;  She and he were lit by a VERY tall and it appears powerful lamp from above

Now likeness.
1)  Both Smithman images show a fairly strong 5 o'clock shadow on the upper lip

2)  Both Smithmen have similarly shaped eyebrows, altho the RH mans are less well groomed than those of the LH man.  Could this be because of the difference in lighting and angle the head was seen at by Martin Smith??

3)   Both Smithmen have down sloping eyes.  The third mans eyes are level with each other and NOT sloping

There are other obvious differences between the three, but I think I have the main ones, except I haven't mentioned
a) the Jaw line.  If looked at with his head tucked down, then the RH mans jaw line might well have bulged out ... and would be partly out of sight in any case, whilst if seen full face by Aoife it is likely to be more correct .... but perhaps some uncertainty. 

I wonder, was the little girls head and shoulders close to Smithmans face and partially blocking ?Aoifes view of his jaw.  Better to leave the image woolley / unfinished rather than
draw in a definite line and give out potentially incorrect info?


If I were given the task of deciding which image was likely to be most correct, I would go for the LH. one (?Aoifes image?), because it appears well lit, clear and full face rather than bent down as the RH one appears, which distorts the image.

I personally would put the third image on the back burner, but not trash it.  Why?  Becauwe if there were three images I had to choose from, this third image was less like the other two IMO.  Two out of three is some confirmation IMO

Sorry this is so late and out of phase with the thread.
Darren Osbourne  IDIOT

Only in my opinion, of course

Offline sadie

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2018, 11:21:02 PM »
That would make a great movie.
Trust a bloke to say that !!! (&^&
Darren Osbourne  IDIOT

Only in my opinion, of course

Online misty

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2018, 11:40:19 PM »
It was Mr Smith who said he saw Gerry McCann. Have the MPS given an opinion?

The MPS released the efits & asked for the public's opinion of the man's identity. IMO that implies they did not believe the efits were of Gerry.

DCI Redwood:-
"This could be the man that took Madeleine, but very importantly, there could be an innocent explanation. The efits are clear, and I’d ask the public to look very carefully at them. If they know who this person is, please come forward."

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2018, 12:05:57 AM »
To me it seems more a matter of two opinions and the likes of ourselves choosing who to side with.
I personally don't like all the aspects of the Final Report and I don't trust the Smiths so I am very  non committed on this issue.  It could be someone who looks 90% like Gerry, and I was pointed out to a photo of a guy today who fitted the bill (which I have to keep confidential) so there are people out there who look very much like Gerry.

Possibly.  But the Smiths continued to follow the case as did the McCluskeys and became very familiar with the images of Kate and Gerry McCann.  Kate and Gerry were made arguidos.  Mr McCluskey and Mr Smith both 'recognised' Gerry from the same news broadcast.

I would place no reliance on identifications made in such circumstances.  One from a man who only saw a back view and one from a man who as near to the time as possible, could not identify who he had seen except that it wasn't Robert Murat.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2018, 12:19:06 AM »
Possibly.  But the Smiths continued to follow the case as did the McCluskeys and became very familiar with the images of Kate and Gerry McCann.  Kate and Gerry were made arguidos.  Mr McCluskey and Mr Smith both 'recognised' Gerry from the same news broadcast.

I would place no reliance on identifications made in such circumstances.  One from a man who only saw a back view and one from a man who as near to the time as possible, could not identify who he had seen except that it wasn't Robert Murat.
Wouldn't you then have to have doubts about his claim and the E-fits which were drawn up after the claim  If there was a date for the production of the Smith E-fits.
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Offline Davel

Re: The Smithman e-fits
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2018, 12:23:54 AM »
Wouldn't you then have to have doubts about his claim and the E-fits which were drawn up after the claim  If there was a date for the production of the Smith E-fits.

I think it's clear that neither investigation think  Smith saw Gerry
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION