Author Topic: According to some, there is certainly circumstantial evidence of abduction.  (Read 7635 times)

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Offline Brietta

Reminder:
Topic of the thread is: There is certainly circumstantial evidence of abduction
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline G-Unit

Reminder:
Topic of the thread is: There is certainly circumstantial evidence of abduction

A bit of a misnomer perhaps?
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Angelo222

A bit of a misnomer perhaps?

I would agree.  The only possible factors which could once be considered as evidence of a bedroom abduction were the Tanner sighting subsequently poo poo'd by Redwood and the unexplained open shutter and window through which nobody climbed according to the forensics. All very mysterious and establishes once and for all that no circumstantial evidence exists pointing to stranger abduction from the apartment.

IMO the McCanns should rightly be concerned by those findings.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 01:51:56 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline barrier

There is no proof Maddie, died in the apartment.... And certainly  none from amaral... That is, fact not opinion

There is no proof she left the apartment alive either according to various SY officers.
Mark Rowley:There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense.

Offline Brietta

Incidents which might have led the police to investigate possible links when Madeline disappeared include ... the disappearance of Joana Cipriano http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3035.msg109970#msg109970 from a town which was very close to Luz.

Two burglaries occurred in the same block of flats from which Madeleine disappeared http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24528530 in the weeks prior to the arrival of the McCann family in the village.

One wonders why these incidents did not suggest an investigative opportunity into Madeleine's disappearance instead of the almost immediate and premature route apparently taken by the investigators ...  "Headline: a badly told story." We started to receive information according to which the police suspected the theory they had apprehensions, didn't believe the theory that she had been kidnapped. To conclude, the police started to suspect the parents from the word go.  JOSE MANUEL OLIVEIRA Crime reporter, 'Diario de Noticias'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Faithlilly

Incidents which might have led the police to investigate possible links when Madeline disappeared include ... the disappearance of Joana Cipriano http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3035.msg109970#msg109970 from a town which was very close to Luz.

Two burglaries occurred in the same block of flats from which Madeleine disappeared http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24528530 in the weeks prior to the arrival of the McCann family in the village.

One wonders why these incidents did not suggest an investigative opportunity into Madeleine's disappearance instead of the almost immediate and premature route apparently taken by the investigators ...  "Headline: a badly told story." We started to receive information according to which the police suspected the theory they had apprehensions, didn't believe the theory that she had been kidnapped. To conclude, the police started to suspect the parents from the word go.  JOSE MANUEL OLIVEIRA Crime reporter, 'Diario de Noticias'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm

Why would the police investigate links to the Cipriano case ? There are none, unless you think there was parental involvement in both cases.

Burglaries yet no abductions. For this to be a burglary gone wrong the burglar would have had to have woken Madeleine up, without waking her siblings, killed her in some way and made the rather unlikely decision to flee with the body, if you believe the abductor was Tannerman, which I believe you think is still a possibility.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline G-Unit

Incidents which might have led the police to investigate possible links when Madeline disappeared include ... the disappearance of Joana Cipriano http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3035.msg109970#msg109970 from a town which was very close to Luz.

Two burglaries occurred in the same block of flats from which Madeleine disappeared http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24528530 in the weeks prior to the arrival of the McCann family in the village.

One wonders why these incidents did not suggest an investigative opportunity into Madeleine's disappearance instead of the almost immediate and premature route apparently taken by the investigators ...  "Headline: a badly told story." We started to receive information according to which the police suspected the theory they had apprehensions, didn't believe the theory that she had been kidnapped. To conclude, the police started to suspect the parents from the word go.  JOSE MANUEL OLIVEIRA Crime reporter, 'Diario de Noticias'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm

When the evidence offered is unconvincing and the witness statements are contradictory it tends to attract police attention imo.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

That's an IYO.

Whilst others have different opinions.
Who is of the opinion (apart from the great man himself) that Amaral PROVED Madeleine died in the apartment?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline Vertigo Swirl

In my opinion it's a logical conclusion, given his training and experience. What do you think he alerted to in the bedroom of G5A?
1) Cadaver odour transferred or otherwise - from human or pig
2) Blood
3) False alert


"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline G-Unit

1) Cadaver odour transferred or otherwise - from human or pig
2) Blood
3) False alert

OK. Number 1; human is more likely than pig in an apartment. Number 2; no alert by Keela, so not blood. Number 3; highly unlikely given the dog's experience.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline ShiningInLuz

Who is of the opinion (apart from the great man himself) that Amaral PROVED Madeleine died in the apartment?
Most of Portugal, from what I have seen.  They are also entitled to their opinion.
Portelas installed. Plus GonÁalo!  And F1!  And the World Cup!

Offline Vertigo Swirl

OK. Number 1; human is more likely than pig in an apartment. Number 2; no alert by Keela, so not blood. Number 3; highly unlikely given the dog's experience.
1) on what basis is odour from a dead human more likely in the apartment than from a dead pig?  How much more likely?
2 & 3) Dogs can and do give false positives and also the opposite.  Neither dog had been independently assessed and so there is no independent verification of their accuracy levels.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline Brietta

Why would the police investigate links to the Cipriano case ? There are none, unless you think there was parental involvement in both cases.

Burglaries yet no abductions. For this to be a burglary gone wrong the burglar would have had to have woken Madeleine up, without waking her siblings, killed her in some way and made the rather unlikely decision to flee with the body, if you believe the abductor was Tannerman, which I believe you think is still a possibility.

Not really the only obvious lines of inquiry neglected back in 2007 though were they?  Homes being entered and children being assaulted in their beds didnít seem to rate a second thought from investigators in a case where a home from where a child vanished may also have been entered illegally. 
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Most of Portugal, from what I have seen.  They are also entitled to their opinion.
OK - so what was the proof presented by Amaral that convinced them Madeleine died in the apartment?  Is it your opinion that proof about any given thing is entirely subjective?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline Brietta

When the evidence offered is unconvincing and the witness statements are contradictory it tends to attract police attention imo.

In my opinion quite a remarkable exercise in speed reading and collation of all the witness statements to hand. 

Not to mention assessing evidence without benefit of forensic information.

In my opinion knee jerk, prejudicial leaks to the press in preference to assessing the information to hand hardly promotes confidence in the capabilities of the investigation; an opinion possibly reinforced by the eventual sacking of Amaral as co-ordinator.

Not to mention the elephant in the room of breached judicial secrecy.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"