Author Topic: Which Window?  (Read 1312 times)

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Offline Caroline

Which Window?
« on: April 03, 2018, 07:12:48 PM »
If guilty (for Holly's benefit), Jeremy must have left through one of the windows. I don't think for one moment it was the kitchen window (although he may still have told Julie that he did), I think the bathroom sash window is the most likely exit. It's a simple process to secure these old windows from the outside - all you need is a piece of string! See below (string drawn in black). The string is wrapped around the catch, and the two ends pushed through the gap between the top and bottom pane. Keeping hold of both ends of the string as you close the window - once shut, just pull. Drop one end and pull the string free.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 07:29:11 PM by Caroline »

Offline LuminousWanderer

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2018, 09:13:47 PM »
If guilty (for Holly's benefit), Jeremy must have left through one of the windows. I don't think for one moment it was the kitchen window (although he may still have told Julie that he did), I think the bathroom sash window is the most likely exit. It's a simple process to secure these old windows from the outside - all you need is a piece of string! See below (string drawn in black). The string is wrapped around the catch, and the two ends pushed through the gap between the top and bottom pane. Keeping hold of both ends of the string as you close the window - once shut, just pull. Drop one end and pull the string free.

Off-topic, I know, so I won't expand on your thread, but I want to start a thread about this Mugford woman.  I want to establish once and for all what, if anything, is the relevance of her evidence.

Offline Caroline

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2018, 09:27:29 PM »
Off-topic, I know, so I won't expand on your thread, but I want to start a thread about this Mugford woman.  I want to establish once and for all what, if anything, is the relevance of her evidence.

If you start the thread, I can answer you there.

Offline adam

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2018, 10:31:01 AM »
The police's stance is Bamber excited the kitchen window.

Julie correctly told the police the kitchen window could be banged shut from outside. Bamber had told her he had found out about this window prior to the massacre. So not sure why he would start playing around with bits of string.

The housekeeper testified items around the kitchen window had been moved. These were fixed items that were rarely moved.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2018, 12:06:56 PM »
The police's stance is Bamber excited the kitchen window.

Julie correctly told the police the kitchen window could be banged shut from outside. Bamber had told her he had found out about this window prior to the massacre. So not sure why he would start playing around with bits of string.

The housekeeper testified items around the kitchen window had been moved. These were fixed items that were rarely moved.

I don't understand why jurors were not taken to WHF to see for themselves whether or not it was possible for JB to bang shut any of the downstairs windows from outside.

Why was the jury taken to Fingringhoe shooting range to hear the rifle discharged with and without silencer, where the sound obviously isn't comparable with the rifle discharged within WHF, and yet the above was by-passed? 

Free-standing washing up tidies and such like are not fixed.  It's these items the housekeeper said looked out of place   Taps, sinks etc are fixed.  The tragedy happened during the height of summer and any of the occupants may have moved the items whilst opening/closing the window or for any other reason. 

DCI Jones confirmed he checked all windows at 9.15am and found them shut and secure on their latches except the window to the dairy.  However after this check but before soc images were taken of kitchen window and sink area including tidy someone opened the kitchen transom window due to flies and odours.  This person may well have interfered with the normal arrangement found around the sink which the housekeeper referred to.

264. In contrast with Sergeant Golding, DCI Jones made a statement dated 7 October 1985 in which he reported that he had attended at the farm at approximately 9.15 a.m. on 7 August and he had proceeded to check every room on the ground floor of the house and found that on the ground floor all the windows in the house were secure and locked except the window to the dairy. That statement was read to the Jury as part of the Defence case.

265. Complaint is made that part of Mr Ainsley's Final Report was not disclosed to the Defence in which he wrote:

"There was no apparent entry to or exit from the house and D.Chief Inspector Jones did in fact examine the inside of all ground floor windows and noted that they were all shut and secured on their latches. The scene was photographed. It seems however that after the inspection of D.Chief Jones some person had partially opened the transom window in the kitchen and also opened the catch on the ground floor bathroom windows. I have been unable to discover the person responsible but there was comment made of the smell in the kitchen and the flies gathering. There is no reason to believe that the bathroom window was opened, but following the departure of the Scene of Crime officer, the witness Police Sergeant Golding secured the windows mentioned."




Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2018, 12:15:44 PM »
If guilty (for Holly's benefit), Jeremy must have left through one of the windows. I don't think for one moment it was the kitchen window (although he may still have told Julie that he did), I think the bathroom sash window is the most likely exit. It's a simple process to secure these old windows from the outside - all you need is a piece of string! See below (string drawn in black). The string is wrapped around the catch, and the two ends pushed through the gap between the top and bottom pane. Keeping hold of both ends of the string as you close the window - once shut, just pull. Drop one end and pull the string free.

I'm assuming you were successfully able to do the above?

It's a pity the prosecution didn't elaborate, just bang shut! 


Offline Caroline

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2018, 12:32:37 PM »
I'm assuming you were successfully able to do the above?

It's a pity the prosecution didn't elaborate, just bang shut!

Not yet.

Offline Caroline

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2018, 03:46:44 PM »
Not yet.

Might be able to carry such a test out in the next couple of weeks though. Many houses have sash windows here - sadly, I don't many people as I haven't lived here very long. HOWEVER, I have a friend that's involved in many community projects so have asked them to ask around for someone who would let me mess ith their panes!  ?{)(**

Offline Caroline

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2018, 12:44:46 AM »
Luminous ........ 100% correct Re: your post on blue. The fact that  Jeremy admitted he could enter the house was enough, they didn't have to prove it. Of course using the sting as above, would leave no marks on exit. Entry really isn't the issue given that he could have left an entry point open (like the bathroom window). It's the exit point that is more relevant as the house was left secured.

Offline Caroline

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2018, 01:49:32 AM »
Luminous ........ 100% correct Re: your post on blue. The fact that  Jeremy admitted he could enter the house was enough, they didn't have to prove which window. Of course using the string as above, would leave no marks on exit. Entry really isn't the issue given that he could have left an entry point open (like the bathroom window). It's the exit point that is more relevant as the house was left secured.

Offline adam

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2018, 09:19:01 AM »
As usual LuminousWanderer wrote a huge 7 paragraph post on this.

Basically saying Bamber said himself he could enter/exit WHF through windows & a window could be banged shut. Which I have just said in a line & a bit. But everyone is different.

I skim read his posts, usually just looking at sub headings. Not sure why he says there is no direct evidence linking Bamber to the crime. The mountain of evidence showing it was not Sheila, directly links Bamber to the crime.


Offline ActualMat

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2018, 10:44:06 PM »
I've always thought that he most likely exited through the kitchen window. Although I don't feel too firmly or strongly about this and could see it being another window, what matters and is known is that he was able to and it was possible.

david1819

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Re: Which Window?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2018, 01:23:19 AM »
I've always thought that he most likely exited through the kitchen window. Although I don't feel too firmly or strongly about this and could see it being another window, what matters and is known is that he was able to and it was possible.

The Sash windows couldn't be shut from outside. Hence the kitchen window was chosen. See Barlows notes




Plus all the Sash windows except for the dairy room and the main bedroom were found secured.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 01:26:06 AM by David1819 »

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Which Window?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2018, 08:36:56 AM »
The Sash windows couldn't be shut from outside. Hence the kitchen window was chosen. See Barlows notes




Plus all the Sash windows except for the dairy room and the main bedroom were found secured.



Are you suggesting you believe Jeremy Bamber is guilty after all? 
"When flying monkeys come calling, just click your ruby slippers together and remember that even narcs can be defeated once you know the truth"

Offline Caroline

Re: Which Window?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2018, 11:57:30 AM »
Are you suggesting you believe Jeremy Bamber is guilty after all?

Of course they can be closed from the outside - I shall prove it  8((()*/