Author Topic: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?  (Read 2713 times)

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Offline jassi

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2018, 05:41:47 PM »

Surely you must assume that facts, evidence must be presented when extra funding is asked for?
If not, then you must assume you that" good money" is thrown at the investigation without any proof that it  is required.

I have no idea of the procedure used by the HO. Do you or are you just expressing your opinion?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -  nearly 11 years and still no solution.

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2018, 05:44:20 PM »
Just because you think it might have been a mistake doesn't mean it is. Some mistakes have already been acknowledged; assuming that UK FLO's may be of use, for example.
I'm not aware there was criticism of the UK FLOs, do you have the reference for that?
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Offline Erngath

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2018, 05:57:12 PM »
I have no idea of the procedure used by the HO. Do you or are you just expressing your opinion?

I was making an educated guess, assumption and wondering what your assumption, educated guess might be.
Amaral, making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2018, 06:02:18 PM »
It's up to SY and OG to decide when they wind up the investigation and not public opinion. Otherwise that is not justice.  And they will make public their findings when the appropriate time comes, they are not obliged to give a running summary for the public's satisfaction. BTW how do you know that they are facing defeat?
well said!
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2018, 06:04:47 PM »
Remind me.  When was the last time they travelled to Luz to interview anyone?

It's all very well sitting on their backsides in London claiming to be following one more lead when in reality they still haven't really got a clue what actually befell her.  If they did know for sure what happened to Maddie we would have heard it from the horses mouth long ago.

All in my honest opinion.


Well obviously they don't know "for sure" yet, but they are still investigating a lead.  Do you think they should give up now while there is still a lead to pursue?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline Erngath

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2018, 06:05:59 PM »
It's up to SY and OG to decide when they wind up the investigation and not public opinion. Otherwise that is not justice.  And they will make public their findings when the appropriate time comes, they are not obliged to give a running summary for the public's satisfaction. BTW how do you know that they are facing defeat?

A post I missed and agree with Vertigo
Well said.
Amaral, making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2018, 07:03:58 PM »

When extra money has been asked for, do you assume as I do, that facts, evidence have to be presented to justify the extra money?
Or do you believe that extra money is given without any need for evidence of continuing solid leads to be pursued.

Until SY tell us differently I would think the money is merely to be used for a mopping up exercise, failing that, a last ditch attempt at salvation.  Redwood spent the last of his kitty on a wild hunch exploratory in Praia da Luz and came up empty. Maybe Mss Walls or whoever has taken over the poisoned chalice now will do better?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 07:11:08 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2018, 07:16:01 PM »
It's up to SY and OG to decide when they wind up the investigation and not public opinion. Otherwise that is not justice.  And they will make public their findings when the appropriate time comes, they are not obliged to give a running summary for the public's satisfaction. BTW how do you know that they are facing defeat?

I wouldn't hold your breath.  I predict they will find nothing and report just as much.  That's the way the police work in this country, they only like to publicize the successes, the failures are usually swept under the proverbial carpet.

SY are hamstrung in what they can and cannot do in this case according to a very senior officer, they have thus been at a distinct disadvantage from the outset. Until that changes, the crimes that we do know about will go uninvestiged and unpunished.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 07:30:12 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2018, 07:24:32 PM »
I wouldn't hold your breath.  I predict they will find nothing and report just as much.  That's the way the police work in this country, they only like to publicize the successes, the failures are usually swept under the proverbial carpet.
Perhaps it would be wiser not to pre-judge the outcome?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline Erngath

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2018, 07:28:08 PM »
Until SY tell us differently I would think the money is merely to be used for a mopping up exercise, failing that, a last ditch attempt at salvation.  Redwood spent the last of his kitty on a wild hunch exploratory in Praia da Luz and came up empty. Maybe Mss Walls or whoever has taken over the poisoned chalice now will do better?

So when asking for extra money, SY present nothing to further their investigation?
Just ask for more money to mop up!
You seem to have a very informed opinion of how the investigation is proceeding.
Amaral, making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2018, 07:31:28 PM »
So when asking for extra money, SY present nothing to further their investigation?
Just ask for more money to mop up!
You seem to have a very informed opinion of how the investigation is proceeding.

It's called reading between the lines.  Watch this space.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2018, 07:31:42 PM »
So when asking for extra money, SY present nothing to further their investigation?
Just ask for more money to mop up!
You seem to have a very informed opinion of how the investigation is proceeding.
Angelo must have an inside track...maybe.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline G-Unit

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2018, 07:37:35 PM »
I'm not aware there was criticism of the UK FLOs, do you have the reference for that?

In the Operation task debrief. It was acknowledged that Foreign Office support was the most appropriate.

http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf
Accept nothing
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Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2018, 08:19:48 PM »
I wouldn't hold your breath.  I predict they will find nothing and report just as much.  That's the way the police work in this country, they only like to publicize the successes, the failures are usually swept under the proverbial carpet.

SY are hamstrung in what they can and cannot do in this case according to a very senior officer, they have thus been at a distinct disadvantage from the outset. Until that changes, the crimes that we do know about will go uninvestiged and unpunished.
How do you account for stuff like this then, if it's true that the UK police usually sweep their failures under the proverbial carpet?

"The Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) is now investigating the “actions and decisions” of Dorset police officers. The IOPC said that the police had referred themselves to the watchdog after an internal review. The move was welcomed by Miss Pope’s family" - from today's Times newspaper re the botched investigation into Gaia Pope's disappearance..
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - MLK Jr

Offline barrier

Re: Should Operation Grange be wound up as SY face defeat?
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2018, 08:33:09 PM »
How do you account for stuff like this then, if it's true that the UK police usually sweep their failures under the proverbial carpet?

"The Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) is now investigating the “actions and decisions” of Dorset police officers. The IOPC said that the police had referred themselves to the watchdog after an internal review. The move was welcomed by Miss Pope’s family" - from today's Times newspaper re the botched investigation into Gaia Pope's disappearance..

What do you expect to come out of that apart from the usual we'll learn from our mistakes?
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