Author Topic: Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table.  (Read 656 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

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Kate McCann the 6th Sept 2007  "Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table." 

I generally believe every word Kate utters, but I struggle with that statement.   Does Kate keep to this story in her book.  Does she not mention the business about Jane seeing a man or Russell and Matt heading off together at the check that should have been her's?
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Offline G-Unit

Kate McCann the 6th Sept 2007  "Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table." 

I generally believe every word Kate utters, but I struggle with that statement.   Does Kate keep to this story in her book.  Does she not mention the business about Jane seeing a man or Russell and Matt heading off together at the check that should have been her's?

It's strange how memory works;

When asked about May 1, 2007 (holiday), she says that on that day they left the apartment around 8:30PM, the same time that was repeated every night.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Although the Wednesday was different according to Jes Wilkins;

After about forty five (45) minutes Jerry appeared as did one of his friends. I believe it was Russell......At this time his wife [Kate] was putting the children to bed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
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Offline Robittybob1

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I Googled the complete phrase ""Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table"  and it only gave results that related to the actual statement and not to any discussion of the issue around Russell and Jane going back and forth to their sick child.  I am finding that amount of movements hard to explain as to why some part of that wasn't locked into her memory.
I find it odd that no one in the last 11 years has discussed this statement of Kate's.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 01:40:31 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

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In her book Kate acknowledges Jane left the table.  "By this time Jane had left to make sure her daughters were OK"
She mentions Matt going and returning but nothing yet about Russell going back with Matt.

For that whole episode of Russell going to clean up after his daughter being sick and Jane having to go to relieve him so he can get back to have is meal to be missing from the book is significant IMO.
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Offline Robittybob1

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It is hard to explain how this isn't remembered but because Kate doesn't discuss it I find it hard to get a lead onto it.

I wonder if Gerry mentions Russell in his arguido statement?
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Offline Robittybob1

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The word Russell comes up twice  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm -
1.  "--- Regarding the disclosure of Madeleine's photograph, he says that he gave the authorities a photograph from a digital camera, and he thinks it was Russell who printed it at the main 24-hour reception of the complex."

2.  "Terms of Joining

On this date, due to being considered of interest to the investigation, joined to the files are two cover sheets of a children’s book, with handwritten notes on the inside covers, which were provided to this police force on the night of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann by one of those who feature in the case files and a member of the McCann couple group of friends, named Russell O’Brien."

Nothing about visits to their apartment.  Jane Tanner is not mentioned at all.


OK what about the prior statements?


There is a document with a list of questions the McCanns wanted asked of their friends:

"Did you see Jane leave the table during the meal? At what time? How long was she away? What did she say when she came back? Was her behaviour or attitude different when she returned?

Did you see Matthew leave the table during the meal? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he came back? Was his behaviour or attitude different when he returned?

Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?

Did you see Kate leave the table during the meal? At what time? How long was she away? What did she say when she came back? How did she look and behave? Were you shocked at what she said? What did you do?

Did you go into the McCann apartment? Did you go into the bedroom where the children were sleeping? Can you describe what you saw? Did you see the twins? Did you notice anything unusual about them?"

Which in some way is pretty weird for they don't mention anything about this themselves!
Source "3085 to 3088 -Group 1  Faxed copy of Letter with questions to ask persons whom McCanns want interviewed (in English and Portuguese)"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MCCANNS-WANTED.htm



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Offline Robittybob1

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It is not an insignificant mix up as Gerry admits in his 10th May statement:

"----- The deponent had had the wrong idea that MATHEW had seen the bedroom external blinds closed when he was there at 21H30, the reason for that was that he thought the disappearance would have been happened between 21h30 and 22h00, it being that, actually, he is [?] convinced that the abduction occurred in the period understood to be between his visit at 21h05 and MATHEW'S visit at 21H30. Only about 01h00 on 4 May 2007 did he learn through RUSSELL that his companion, JANE, at 21h10, could have seen an individual crossing the top of the road with a child in his arms, that may or may not have been his daughter MADELEINE."

Yet the supposed agreed timeline says "SEQUENCE OF EVENTS: THURSDAY 3rd MAY 2007
20.30 TO 22.00 AS RECALLED BY TAPAS 9"  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm:

"JT checked only 5D entering via the deadlocked door on the car park side of the apartment. Both children inside were asleep. She did not check 5A or 5B.

2120: JT then returns to the restaurant, by which time GM had also returned. The entire party then begins eating their starters which have arrived.
2125: After starters, MO and RJO go back to the apartments via the car park entrance to check all flats. They go first to 5D where RJO's daughter Evie is heard crying. RJO enters flat, whilst MO checks inside 5B, and then returns to 5D.
2130: RJO remains in 5D as daughter has vomited. MO goes to check on 5A via the patio gate entrance. The outside gate is probably shut, but the child gate on the stairs up to the patio is possibly open. The patio door is closed but unlocked.
MO enters flat, hears a sound in the children's bedroom that is probably one of the twins rolling over in their cot. He does not enter the bedroom but can see through a now quite open door (greater than 45 degrees) into the room.
He sees the two twins in their cot, but does not check Madeleine formally as no sounds and twins asleep. He recalls the room did seem lighter than expected, perhaps suggesting the shutter had been raised or the curtains opened?
2135: MO returns to restaurant table, by which time main courses are arriving or being eaten. MO tells JT that Evie unwell.
2140: JT returns to 5D to take over care of Evie from RJO.
2145: RJO returns to table to eat main course leaving JT in 5D.
2155: RMO asked time at table. RJO's main course arrives. "

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Offline Robittybob1

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That to me is a complete contradiction in that the McCanns want to know about Russell and Jane's movements and what was said when they returned yet Kate says "Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table."!
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Offline Robittybob1

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That to me is a complete contradiction in that the McCanns want to know about Russell and Jane's movements and what was said when they returned yet Kate says "Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table."!
If Kate and Gerry were at the table  when Russell and Jane left to do their checks wouldn't they be just as aware of what time they returned?  Is there some degree of finger pointing going on here? Matt reported back to the McCanns "all quiet" when he returned.  Do the others answer those questions?

Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?
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Offline sadie

Kate McCann the 6th Sept 2007  "Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up from the table." 

I generally believe every word Kate utters, but I struggle with that statement.   Does Kate keep to this story in her book.  Does she not mention the business about Jane seeing a man or Russell and Matt heading off together at the check that should have been her's?
When I met Kate, it was only for a brief 2 or 3 minutes  but her eye contact was total and sincere.  Her eyes met mine and stayed there and she listened intently.

Someone who concentrates that hard on another person may well not notice people moving on the other side of the table.

She sat between Rachel and Fiona and my bet is that almost all her conversation was with her two main friends, and Gerry and David.  Mainly she would be looking to her right hand side.



It is also likely that she conversed less with Dianne, Jane and Russell who sat on her LHS and who she hardly knew before that holiday IIRC.   Please correct me if I am wrong on hardly knowing Jane and Russell


Easy to miss the comings and goings to and from a table when concentrating on a conversation as Kate did with me.

AIMO
Darren Osbourne  IDIOT

Only in my opinion, of course

Offline Robittybob1

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Jane leaves twice before 10:00 PM according to the agreed timeline.  How long was Russell away and Kate had not noted that either?
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Offline Robittybob1

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I'm struggling and then the mcCanns have specific questions about the Tanner and O'Brien absences from the table!  Yet they were supposedly at the table at these times too!  How come they were not aware of it too?

Why would they want to know what was said?  Were they suspicious of them in some way?
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Offline Robittybob1

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Did you see Russell Leave the table? At what time? How long was he away? What did he say when he returned?

How well did the other Tapas 7 answer these questions?

Rachael  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm:

Rachael does not answer any of these questions.
"Russell was still up with Evie, so Jane ate her dinner and then she went up to relieve Russell, which is like our standing joke of the holiday, erm and so Russell came back and he'd ordered steak or something but they couldn't do another one and brought him his food, we'd all finished I think, erm so he was eating his dinner and Kate said that she you know was, must have been about five to ten then or ten o'clock."   

The time Rachael mentions is related to Kate's check not when Russell returns.



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Offline Brietta

It's strange how memory works;

When asked about May 1, 2007 (holiday), she says that on that day they left the apartment around 8:30PM, the same time that was repeated every night.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Although the Wednesday was different according to Jes Wilkins;

After about forty five (45) minutes Jerry appeared as did one of his friends. I believe it was Russell......At this time his wife [Kate] was putting the children to bed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
Absolutely: strange that it was not easier to locate a man with the distinctive hairstyle "he noted that a person of around 1.70m, with long blond hair, apparently of the "Rasta," style and dressed in green military-style clothes, entered the restaurant." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
The location was certainly relevant.
The timing was relevant.
Wonder if it too was a disguise pre-dating Oakley?
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline G-Unit

Absolutely: strange that it was not easier to locate a man with the distinctive hairstyle "he noted that a person of around 1.70m, with long blond hair, apparently of the "Rasta," style and dressed in green military-style clothes, entered the restaurant." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm
The location was certainly relevant.
The timing was relevant.
Wonder if it too was a disguise pre-dating Oakley?

Wilkins memory certainly seems unreliable. He was either in the restaurant, on the road or in the toilet when he saw this man. The man was either alone or with a woman. I wonder why Wilkins changed his mind between Friday and Monday about being in the restaurant?

4th May
"between 8.30 and 9pm, while he was in the "TAPAS" restaurant, he noted that a person of around 1.70m, with long blond hair, apparently of the "Rasta," style and dressed in green military-style clothes, entered the restaurant."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm

7th May
"I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I could not see inside the restaurant."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm

April 2008
"At this point, I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception. I believe that he was with a woman but I cannot be precise of any detail about her. It was a tall Caucasian man, with blonde hair in 'rasta style' tied with a band instead of free flowing. When I arrived, I headed to the WC near the pool area. He also was in the WC but appeared to be a taking a long time"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
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