... or how to babble on non-stop for seven minutes without mentioning once how and why Jeremy Bamber murdered five members of his family.
The OS quotes actress Susan Penhaligan as a supporter. Who I have never heard of. As well as Peter Tatchell, who is just saying all evidence should be released.
Andrew Hunter is still the prized supporter. But he hasn't come out to play for yonks.
If they could get a heavyweight such as Joey Essex or 'Fat Boy' from Eastenders, that would give things much more gravitas.
Joey Essex @)(++(* Jackie Preece was going to try and get TOWIE on board!
Ive heard all kinds of crazy rumors about that woman. What is she doing now?
A lot of supporters and former supporters previously confirmed this year, either on forums, or in the media, that Bamber now has all documents. This was after CAL stated it in her book.
Poppy apparently has direct contact with Bamber and said on television that the new documents highlight his innocence.
Poppy? Isn't she the one who thinks Barbara Wilson was the housekeeper and that she's died already? With supporters having such scant knowledge of the case, thank god they're going nowhere.
Stay tuned for the next weekly table talk... about how dinky and value for money these purple wristbands are. Trudi et al would be better coming here and joining a healthy debate instead of spreading myths on YouTube... but don't hold your breath.
From CAL's book...
The campaign website maintains that Essex Police are still withholding 175 photographs along with 340,000 pages of documents, many of them under Public Interest Immunity. However, in a letter dated 13 October 2013, Jeremy stated that he had now in fact seen ‘320,000 pages of the 340,000 pages that attracted PII’. In a second letter on 25 December 2013 he wrote that the entire 340,000 pages had been made available and could be used ‘in any way I so choose, but for the moment it is not going to assist me in having my appeal heard any sooner and actually it’ll muck up any future prosecution of those who deserve to be in jail’. The police position on his previous claims of withheld material is encapsulated in the declaration of former senior investigating officer Mike Ainsley: ‘Bamber was tried on an abundance of evidence and properly convicted. There was no miscarriage of justice. There were no grave errors in my investigation. No witness for the prosecution gave false or misleading evidence. There were no ‘paper’ errors. The defence lawyers had full and unencumbered access to ALL of the police statements, documents and exhibits at any time.’
The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. (p. 399). Lee, Carol Ann. Pan Macmillan.
Ooooh!!!! Am I to understand that "Bamberphanalia" is now on sale?
A lot of supporters and former supporters previously confirmed this year, either on forums, or in the media, that Bamber now has all documents. This was after CAL stated it in her book.
Poppy apparently has direct contact with Bamber and said on television that the new documents highlight his innocence. A forum poster also said Bamber had said he now has everything. Two other forum posters and Bamber supporters confirmed this, but did not give sources. One of these has now changed stance and said there are in fact missing documents.
I suspect that he has everything, but there is not enough new information to successfully submit to the CCRC.
So the focus is on apparent withheld information to keep Bamber in the media. This is highlighted by one of the alleged missing documents relating to Neville's call to the police. Which would be a massive piece of evidence and was headline news when the myth first surfaced in 2010. It is obvious the police won't have this document, as the call never happened. This means the CT can always claim this is missing, the police cannot negate this claim by handing over the document, as it never existed. But the myth will always create publicity, interest and support.
Documents asked for include:
* Original handwritten logs and statements relating to Nevill's call to the police on the morning of the murders at White House Farm in Tolleshunt D'Arcy;
From one of my links today. Not sure how I am twisting the facts. However it is a fact that since at least 2010 Bamber and the CT have run with the claim that Neville called the police.
that's because that is how they have interpreted the log . It is a log that is exists it is just that some people do not believe it is a call from Neville - some do. Now do you get it?
That's another 3½ minutes of my life wasted. As if MP's nationwide are interested in getting involved with a dead-duck of a case.
Blimey - someone's had a good Christmas!!
I'm not sure why this lady has been chosen to do this - her presentation is flat, uninspiring and hesitant, almost as though she's embarrassed. Perhaps her heart isn't truly in it.
ltd company?
That's another 3½ minutes of my life wasted. As if MP's nationwide are interested in getting involved with a dead-duck of a case.
Hey Trudi, you mention the freedom that Jeremy so richly deserves. I disagree. A long rope and a tall tree would have been so much better in the circumstances and I'm willing to hazard a guess that Colin Caffell would have been quite prepared to pull it. But in any event it's always good to identify the sort of people who support child murderers and if it's notoriety you seek then so be it.
It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly intelligent, sane and well educated people can involve themselves to such an extent in a case where the facts so clearly point to the killer. Trudi Benjamin speaks of evidence which proves Jeremy Bamber innocent but innocent of what exactly?
Will be interesting to watch these YouTube speculative forays develop before she realises she has become a laughing stock!
It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly intelligent, sane and well educated people can involve themselves to such an extent in a case where the facts so clearly point to the killer. Trudi Benjamin speaks of evidence which proves Jeremy Bamber innocent but innocent of what exactly?
Will be interesting to watch these YouTube speculative forays develop before she realises she has become a laughing stock!
It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly intelligent, sane and well educated people can involve themselves to such an extent in a case where the facts so clearly point to the killer. Trudi Benjamin speaks of evidence which proves Jeremy Bamber innocent but innocent of what exactly?
Will be interesting to watch these YouTube speculative forays develop before she realises she has become a laughing stock!
It says the goal is to raise money. What do they intend to do with this money? So many non-profits seem to be about giving jobs to people and not much of the proceeds go anywhere other than "overhead".
As for Jeremy, any honest supporter would admit they believe he is innocent but have no evidence to prove it. Anyone who says they can prove it is full of crap, that is why he is still in prison. Jeremy himself claimed he is innocent but can't prove it.
Perhaps he still is possessed of that "Je ne sais quoi" common to all babe magnets, otherwise known as "treat'm mean. Keep'm keen."
And a magnet needs rubbing up every so often to stop its power and influence from waning, preferably by endless funding from floozies (not including you Daisy, I hasten to add).
Holly's gone quiet all of a sudden... &%+((£ ... must have gone checking her bank account. 8()-000(
Perhaps they intend to "purchase" more testing...........................or donate the money to a charity of Jeremy's choosing?
And a magnet needs rubbing up every so often to stop its power and influence from waning, preferably by endless funding from floozies (not including you Daisy, I hasten to add).
Holly's gone quiet all of a sudden... &%+((£ ... must have gone checking her bank account. 8()-000(
Poppy? Isn't she the one who thinks Barbara Wilson was the housekeeper and that she's died already? With supporters having such scant knowledge of the case, thank god they're going nowhere.
Stay tuned for the next weekly table talk... about how dinky and value for money these purple wristbands are. Trudi et al would be better coming here and joining a healthy debate instead of spreading myths on YouTube... but don't hold your breath.
Thank you Myster. I certainly didn't fall for his charm but genuinely thought this was a MOJ. It was when I started asking awkward questions in order to find out the truth that Jeremy turned on me. I certainly wasn't prepared to give him any money.
It says the goal is to raise money. What do they intend to do with this money? So many non-profits seem to be about giving jobs to people and not much of the proceeds go anywhere other than "overhead".
As for Jeremy, any honest supporter would admit they believe he is innocent but have no evidence to prove it. Anyone who says they can prove it is full of crap, that is why he is still in prison. Jeremy himself claimed he is innocent but can't prove it.
I agree. I suggested this to JB ages ago. I guess they might post under usernames but I don't see any evidence of this.
I'll email the CT and see if they are up for it. I'll send a copy to JB too.
As Delia Smith said to the Norwich City fans:
"Where are you"?
"Lets be having you"
"Come on"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_8JLkwzpd0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_8JLkwzpd0)
?>)()<
Seriously Trudi and the CT how's about it? We can agree certain rules beforehand with an equal number of moderators from both camps to ensure the event is a success for all concerned.
They seem to be hinting that they will complete the work from the last submissions carried out in the US? I didn't think they could use stuff that had been presented before?
@)(++(* Blimey!... Delia used to be such a gentle feminine soul, not the scourge of the terraces! 8()(((@#
Watched her TV programmes and bought the cookery books as well, but little did I know that she was a closet harridan! 8(8-))
They seem to be hinting that they will complete the work from the last submissions carried out in the US? I didn't think they could use stuff that had been presented before?
How can it have been presented previously if it wasn't completed?
I believe they went with what they has and it was kicked out because it was inconclusive.
I believe they went with what they has and it was kicked out because it was inconclusive.
This seems to happen a lot eg Peter Sutherst's conclusions were contested by Andy Laws with more testing required and then it all goes cold... &%+((£
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/forensic-evidence
Point 5.
One can try to argue that it is new because the experiments are new but the true standard is new in the sense the science wasn't available before so should fail to meet the new definition but judges sometimes bend the rules.
The tests weren't done because there is no way to test and prove their claims so it would not accomplish anything anyway. At it's core Fowler is arguing there was a muzzle imprint left from the rifle muzzle on Sheila. Vanezis said there was no muzzle imprint and the photos show no muzzle imprint.
They could test all day long what muzzle imprints from the rifle look like and take a million photos. That will not help since the photos show no muzzle imprint and Vanezis said there was none.
So the CCRC and courts could give them lots of leeway as they did in 2002 then say they still failed to prove anything.
Since the burns could have been made after the moderator was removed and put in the closet even if they could establish the burns were made by heating the rifle this would not refute the moderator being used to shoot everyone. So further tests in that arena would not matter either.
I notice that Martin Ogram is no longer a member of the CT?Neither will Bamber be treated to that promised pint of cool frothy bitter any time soon. 8((()*/
Vanezis never mentioned a muzzle imprint at all. There is not a positive or negative confirmation. Just because its not mentioned does not mean it did not exist.
Yes, I take your point but actually in the documentary one of the experts actually says that further testing would be required. However, if this stuff has already been submitted, I believe they can't use it again? Seems a waste and what would be the point of completeing the tests if they can't be resubmitted?
1) That is the approach a lawyer would take but you might have people who don't care about the law who hope the judiciary will stretch things.
2) While technically it should not be entertained again in the courts it could be entertained in a petition for clemency so would not necessarily be a waste if it actually resulted in evidence of Jeremy's innocence.
Ask yourself why the lawyers who did the last submission didn't wait for more testing before submitting it. The reason why is they knew more testing would not accomplish anything further.
These claims have no where to go. There was a hope the courts would be fooled, it failed and that's that.
At the appellate stage of the game you have to come up with evidence that refutes a major leg of the prosecution case. Judges have to be convinced the evidence is reliable and objectively does so. The crap they are pursuing has no chance of doing that.
They need to be looking at something that refutes drawback would occur and thus the blood had to be planted. I see little hope of finding anything and no doubt they looked at his angle and found nothing but if you want to undermine the moderator that is what you need to look at again. Otherwise they have to try to get Julie to recant. These would be the only things that could get his conviction overturned.
Vanezis didn't mention finding a muzzle imprint = he didn't find a muzzle imprint.
He described the wounds and for the lower one described an entrance wound with a bullet abrasion and dirt ring. He didn't asses sit to be a contact wound. If he assessed there was an imprint he would have stated there was a muzzle imprint and that it was a hard contact wound because only hard contact wounds can leave muzzle imprints.
Not only do you keep foolishly raising the nonsense already dismissed by the courts you even keep posting nonsense made up by Mike so there is little chance of you facing reality even when beat over the head with it. You are running around insisting Cook disassembled the moderator on Aug 29 and took a photo of it and that he thus contaminated it and found no blood so it must have been planted.
What is your evidence to support this wild allegation that you took from Mike? Mike took a photocopy of a photo received by the defense from COLP it even has a COLP Bates stamp. According to COLP this photo was taken well after the lab removed the blood from it. Mike hand wrote on this that it was taken Aug 29 and this doctoring by him is your solitary piece of evidence around which you craft your claims.
If you are that biased and delusional that you think Mike adding a date to something proves it was taken that date then no wonder you are not able to comprehend why the CCRC and Courts reject the nonsense claims by Fowler and Sutherst.
I agree. I suggested this to JB ages ago. I guess they might post under usernames but I don't see any evidence of this.
I'll email the CT and see if they are up for it. I'll send a copy to JB too.
As Delia Smith said to the Norwich City fans:
"Where are you"?
"Lets be having you"
"Come on"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_8JLkwzpd0
?>)()<
Seriously Trudi and the CT how's about it? We can agree certain rules beforehand with an equal number of moderators from both camps to ensure the event is a success for all concerned.
CAL's book P196:
"Her stomach [SC] contained 'partially digested food'. Vanezis made no reference to the stomach contents of the other victims, leading to speculation that Sheila might have eaten later than her family. 'I'm sure they all had some food in their stomachs - I noted it for her and took it as read with the others.'
The fact he doesn't mention something doesn't seem to count for much.
P195 he seems to contradict himself:
"The lower wound on the right side of Sheila's throat showed bruising and residue marks and was the first to have been innflicted".
"The upper wound, just beneath Sheila's chin, was smallerwith firearm reside and slight bruising."
The above from 85/86.
CAL's interview:
"Both injuries were 'very loose' contact wounds, lacking the associated grazing and distribution of residue within the skin from full contact wounds".
Oh Scipio help a damsel in distress 8)><(
Dr V:
"You never know what you're going to find and we didn't see a large number of firearm cases at the time, so a ballistics expert was essential. We don't always take gunshot residues at post-motem and I could have deferred to him [sexist] on that issue, as well as the range of fire, the calibre of the bullet etc".
VERY WORRYING
There was no need to mention the food in the stomachs. In describing the wounds it would be not only pertinent but extremely pertinent if a muzzle imprint had been found. The defense had heir own experts and none of them found any evidence of a muzzle imprint. A muzzle imprint only happens when there is a hard contact wound so had he noticed it then he would have assessed the lower wound to be a hard contact wound as a result.
He contradicted himself by saying both were contact wounds though he assessed at the time tha tthe lower wound was a near contact wound.
He spoke to CAL how many years later. His memory is faulty which is why accounts long after are treated with so much skepticism. If he was given all the documents to review then asked about them to see what he remembers that is one thing but when you ask someone 30 years later to just recall everything it is invariably not going to end up fully accurate. Look what happened to PC West, he testified a year later and he already could not remember so much. His assessments at the time are treated as the record.
I know you are asking what he is talking about. The residue he is referring to is from the powder. In a hard contact wound the powder has no where to go except inside the wound and the powder will be inside the entrance wound itself. It will form a ring around the inside of the wound and also often be found in surrounding tissue inside because all the powder expelled from the weapon goes inside.
The gases will tear the skin in a hard contact wound that is also something he says was lacking. In a loose contact some of the powder residue will ring the outside edge of the entrance wound and some powder and gases will escape through the sides so it won't all be propelled into the wound and won't be propelled as deep into the wound. With a near contact wound there is a dirt ring around the outside of the entrance wound. It will extend further outside than the ring from a loose contact wound. Once you get beyond near contact the powder is much less condensed and instead of a nice tight ring you get what looks like tiny grain. The further away the shot the more dispersed this will be until finally being too far away for any of it to hit.
To the naked eye from the outside a distant shot and hard contact shot look very similar because there is no powder obvious in either case. The distant shot no powder reached. The hard contact shot it is all inside so you need to look at the inner tissue.
So Vanezis is saying that the powder distribution is different than if it were a hard contact wound and the bruising is different. The bruising that existed outside the entrance wound was from the bullet aka a bullet abrasion as opposed to the kind of tearing you get from a hard contact wound.
Poke your finger into a fatty area of your body. Notice how not only touches the very tip of your finger but beds around your finger so that it touches some of the side as well. It does this will a bullet except a bullet is spinning so it bruises the skin as it touches. So the very outside of the entrance wound will have abraded skin. In a contact wound the bullet doesn't do this because it is fired directly against the skin so the surrounding skin doesn't get a chance to touch. He obviously forgot that he assessed the lower wound was a near contact wound.
Since a muzzle imprint can only happen with a hard contact wound and he said they were not hard contact wounds that means it is not possible for Fowler's claims of the lower wound having a muzzle imprint to be possible. Since the photos show no muzzle imprint and Vanazis didn't assess there to be a muzzle imprint it is a nonstarter really.
I have repeatedly noted his expertise with guns was practically nonexistent and his expertise with gunshot wounds somewhat limited which is why he didn't recognize the butt of the rifle caused Nevill's injuries save the cracking of his skull but recognizing the butt cracked his skull is no big feat a monkey could recognize that.
In this case Vanezis wrote his report then the ballistic expert made his assessments after. If the expert made his assessments right away the report would have been a lot better at some things. For instance the angle of the lower shot being an angle that doesn't fit suicide. The ballistic experts reviewed the photos and his medical observations and basically agree with him with respect to the bullet wound assessments so there was no harm in that regard. They got lucky it was not more complex with multiple weapons and so forth.
I don't have any and I'm not fattist but I know someone who should be able to help 8)-))) I run about 50 miles a week and spend 30 mins most days lifting weights which I've done for years. Some might think it's vain but I see it as a necessity from the way humans have evolved from cave woman to modern woman with sedentary lifestyles and an abundance of readily available calorie rich food.
Anyway thanks for all the info Scipio I will have to think about it as it's not an aspect of the case I'm familiar with. Who knows you might convert me but I wouldn't hold your breath 8((()*/
What do you use that bra for? You must have boobs. They will work far better than any other ear of the boxy for the demonstration purposes. I don't have manboobs yet so the best I can find to do it is my arm.
ear of the boxy? Take it easy scipio and slow down the typing. We can't have you becoming as incomprehensible as gungun!
The following invitation has been sent to JB's campaign team with a copy to JB via the email a prisoner system:
Dear Campaign Team: Trudi, Pat, Yvonne, Sarah, Heidi, Lorna and Matt
INVITATION TO A DEBATING SESSION @ THE UK JUSTICE FORUM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php
Following Trudi's recent videos we would like to invite you to join in a debating session on the UK Justice Forum at a mutually agreed time. If you accept we will ensure the session is properly managed with an equal numbers of moderators from both camps: guilty and innocent. We can also agree on a format ie Q&A, one open thread or a set number of threads to discuss particular aspects of the case, perhaps 3 of your choosing and a further 3 chosen by members of the forum? I prefer the latter option as I think it will be easier to manage and moderate.
If you agree and the session is a success we could look to arrange further sessions by inviting other interested parties to join in/view eg law firms and the media.
I hope you will agree that healthy debate can highlight strengths and weaknesses in the case for and against and will consider the invitation.
Kind regards
Holly
Even more interesting will be Essex Police response to his open letter, which I predict will be on the lines of...
Dear Jeremy,
Thank you for your letter of the 7th. inst.
Please stop pestering us for documents we don't have, because you've already got the bl**dy lot!
Happy New Year!
Actually it will be two words...Mike's favourite two.
It will be interesting to hear what Jeremy responds with if anything. Have you considered sending him a set of questions generated by members here?
Shouldn't those women be at home using the Christmas presents that their husbands/partners/boyfriends bought for them, instead of playing about with balls?...
But can they sing like my new Portuguese girlfriend, instead of screeching and hollering on the pitch like a demented cook? &%+((£
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m-Rg_qk6aw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m-Rg_qk6aw)
Sound pretty damn good to me!
Aye-aye... now he's jumped aboard the stinking police corruption bandwagon on the road to nowhere...
http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/looking-forward-to-2016.html (http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/looking-forward-to-2016.html)
How many times in the past has Bamber said he's positive, excited and waxed lyrical about being released soon, only to find that not a single person in Britain (bar a handful of cranks) believes him, and so he stays put where he deserves to be.
I think those dark storm clouds brewing over Essex he made reference to in the past must have ended up in the North hence all the flooding 8(8-))
Aye-aye... now he's jumped aboard the stinking police corruption bandwagon on the road to nowhere...
http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/looking-forward-to-2016.html (http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/looking-forward-to-2016.html)
How many times in the past has Bamber said he's positive, excited and waxed lyrical about being released soon, only to find that not a single person in Britain (bar a handful of cranks) believes him, and so he stays put where he deserves to be.
What corruption within Essex Police is Jeremy Bamber blkethering on about now?
Well... if all else fails, blame it on the deceased members of EP.
Doesn't seem that Holly's had any response to her invite for a debate with the CT. Why am I not surprised!
The latest episode of "Goldhanger Street" starring a Kate Adie manqué... * yawn*
Lol...that has to be a sprout farm with all that wind @)(++(*
The latest episode of "Goldhanger Street" starring a Kate Adie manqué... * yawn*Good grief!!!!
Good grief!!!!
Is that really the best they can muster? Embarrassing for all concerned, I would suggest.
Who the hell is this guy anyway?
Trood you mention Kate Adie. Do you realise she was also adopted and attended boarding school? I read her auto-bio 'The Kindness Of Strangers' where she tells that her adoptive parents told her she was adopted just before she departed for boarding school (akin to the SC and JB scenario). Maybe something or nothing &%+((£Just when you thought that the campaign group couldn't sink any lower.........Jackie Preece! A horse!! and one of the most dim witted morons from off the telly!!!
May I remind you that a reply to the forums invitation to a debating session is still outstanding. You seem pleasant and well mannered so I'm sure a reply is on your busy agenda.
PS Can Jackie P and myself (both fairly local) go on the p**s with you next week at the pub? Are you meeting at The Chequers, Goldhanger? Jackie assures me she can get some of the TOWIE crew along and is working on Joey Essex 8((()*/ Jackie has also agreed to do a Lady Godiva on her horse, Trigger, through Goldhanger for some publicity 8(>((
The latest episode of "Goldhanger Street" starring a Kate Adie manqué... * yawn*
Good grief!!!!
Is that really the best they can muster? Embarrassing for all concerned, I would suggest.
Who the hell is this guy anyway?
It seems that Trudie's youtube postings will just be news bulletins. Or interviews with people who support Bamber.
None of the evidence has been spoken about in her three videos.
Are we really surprised? 8)-)))
At the end of the 7 minute video she said future weekly videos will be looking at pieces of the evidence.
But not just yet.
No good looking at any evidence if their agenda can't be challenged other than by private e-mail. Isn't it about time they took up Holly's offer for an open debate?
People can usually post replies underneath Youtube videos. Unless this option is blocked.
Surely the only way to get more supporters would be to post Youtube videos discrediting the evidence. Or making up new claims. New viewer may take an interest.
Maybe the videos are just updates for current supporters.
Good grief!!!!
Is that really the best they can muster? Embarrassing for all concerned, I would suggest.
Who the hell is this guy anyway?
@)(++(*
Troods, this is really, REALLY bad - you'd have been better off borrowing Mike's Lav-cam. The last time I saw a video as awful as this, with dodgy-looking people in a muddy field, it was about dogging.
Apparently next weeks venue The Dog Inn pub in Trood's neck of the woods ironically has a small car park 8)-)))
Any response yet Holly?
The invitation was to all members of the CT and sent via the OS copied to JB so I feel certain they must have received it and discussed. Any debate could potentially be split quite evenly as they have 7 CT members. Plus there's David1819, who tends to be pro JB or at least neutral, and myself. Hopefully Anna and Eleanor could help moderate for a couple of hours. They tend to be pro JB, or at least neutral, plus myself so that's 3 pro/neutral JB mods. We could even place a restriction on participants so it doesn't get silly with a mass invasion from Blue and 'lurkers'. In fact that would probably be the way to go ie just allow regular members to join in otherwise it could all end up very silly. Anyway I think I'm getting a bit carried away as I doubt they will take up the offer. Sadly due to the time difference Scipio will be fast asleep and unable to join in 8(0(*
The invitation was to all members of the CT and sent via the OS copied to JB so I feel certain they must have received it and discussed. Any debate could potentially be split quite evenly as they have 7 CT members. Plus there's David1819, who tends to be pro JB or at least neutral, and myself. Hopefully Anna and Eleanor could help moderate for a couple of hours. They tend to be pro JB, or at least neutral, plus myself so that's 3 pro/neutral JB mods. We could even place a restriction on participants so it doesn't get silly with a mass invasion from Blue and 'lurkers'. In fact that would probably be the way to go ie just allow regular members to join in otherwise it could all end up very silly. Anyway I think I'm getting a bit carried away as I doubt they will take up the offer. Sadly due to the time difference Scipio will be fast asleep and unable to join in 8(0(*Of the 7 you allude to, how many of these are men?
Of the 7 you allude to, how many of these are men?
Just the one.
(But he's called Pat. 8(8-)) )
Because you're suffering from a serious case of MD syndrome, caused by an overabundance of sexy photos pinned on your bedroom wall, like this lot... http://www.jeremybambercampaign.co.uk/posters-for-universities (http://www.jeremybambercampaign.co.uk/posters-for-universities)
Not sure what the point of an open debate would be.Perhaps you will be kind enough then to make yourself available to meet and greet and take the coats? And help me sort out the refreshments? 8)-)))
There are two forums, which anyone can post on, including CT members. Posters can also post on what the campaign team says or post on any new news received via the internet or Youtube.
A couple of hours is no where near enough time either.
I have found some more forensic evidence today. Regarding the bible. With a touch of circumstantial evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu6L4Kvql9s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu6L4Kvql9s)
Fair enough we all make mistakes and this will hopefully prove the point especially where information is relayed second hand eg P C West to Malcolm Bonnet.
I'm sure you don't need any encouragement from me to start a thread! We don't mind you creating new threads so long as you check beforehand that there aren't existing ones to add to 8((()*/
Too many awkward questions for the Campaign team to answer unfortunately on a live forum. Always best to hide behind a youtube video and in that way avoid extreme embarassment.
Watch out for the next exciting episode later today.
Here is this weeks weekly instalment. I suppose they have to embrace the cake baking stunt.
Reading out a blog from Bamber which anyone can read for themselves, is a bit pointless.
But anyway, some people who lied are going to do some jail time then. Nice big kitchen, but the cake looks a bit too sweet.
Here is this weeks weekly instalment. I suppose they have to embrace the cake baking stunt.
Reading out a blog from Bamber which anyone can read for themselves, is a bit pointless.
But anyway, some people who lied are going to do some jail time then. Nice big kitchen, but the cake looks a bit too sweet.
I thought this weeks venue for Trudi's 'Vlog' was a pub?
Who are these Vlogs aimed at and how do they monitor the traffic?
I thought this weeks venue for Trudi's 'Vlog' was a pub?
Who are these Vlogs aimed at and how do they monitor the traffic?
She obviously got confused between her kitchen in Hereford and the Queen Vic. Not surprising really given her confusion over Jeremy Bambers guilt.
Peggy Mitchell threw them out of the Queen Vic for being drunk and deceitful. (http://i.imgur.com/LCty09a.gif)
You, me and another 190 (that's 0.00033% of the UK population who use the (http://i.imgur.com/RKPPiWX.gif), i.e. 57 million)... so it must be extremely influential. (http://i.imgur.com/PUpPPfx.gif)
We want (http://i.imgur.com/2nMgUuK.gif)
Yes I overlooked that YouTube keeps a record of times viewed. All Vlogs currently under well under 200 views &%+((£ I'm afraid to say, as it stands, interest/awareness of JB's case is very low. Population of UK as at 2013 = 64.1 million.
The 57 million comes from the number of people who have access to the internet using any device, such as phone, tablet, PC, etc.
Yes, thanks. I was just comparing with UK population as a whole. Any which way you crunch the numbers interest/awareness is virtually non-existent and I can't see that changing unless JB's case gets to CoA, retrial or his conviction is quashed.
Yes, thanks. I was just comparing with UK population as a whole. Any which way you crunch the numbers interest/awareness is virtually non-existent and I can't see that changing unless JB's case gets to CoA, retrial or his conviction is quashed.
Yes I overlooked that YouTube keeps a record of times viewed. All Vlogs currently under well under 200 views &%+((£ I'm afraid to say, as it stands, interest/awareness of JB's case is very low. Population of UK as at 2013 = 64.1 million.
Most people arent interested in the case and see it as having been determined long ago. Had new evidence been found this could have changed things but as it stands all they ever come up with is wild therories and nothing of any sustance capable of undermining the original verdict.
Any news from camp JB Holls?
No! I've noticed on the website Trudi has an email address so maybe I will contact Trudi, as spokesperson, direct.
No! I've noticed on the website Trudi has an email address so maybe I will contact Trudi, as spokesperson, direct.
No! I've noticed on the website Trudi has an email address so maybe I will contact Trudi, as spokesperson, direct.
https://youtu.be/FUY4g5E8Wm8
Trudie is on the radio.
Ah!! So she is. Basically a fat lass who supports a child killer. With a shiny Aga.
That will get him out of prison.
In her weird dreams.
Ouch! I think being fat is the least of her problems she needs someone to set her head straight.
Trudie on the radio says she believes Bamber innocent because 'The evidence is just circumstantial'.
This is not true. However is she agreeing the circumstantial evidence is strong, but refuses to accept it because in her view there is no forensic evidence to back it up ?
People can be convicted on just forensic or circumstantial evidence. Both isn't always needed.
https://youtu.be/FUY4g5E8Wm8
Trudie is on the radio.
Hopefully Trudie, as the CT's spokesperson, will accept our invitation to a debate on the forum and these questions can be put to her and debated.
I can't TELL you how much I'm looking forward to it, Holl!! 8(*(
I can't TELL you how much I'm looking forward to it, Holl!! 8(*(
Shat ap and sit down you 'orrible lot! It's time for the weekly sermon from Yours Trudi...
Shat ap and sit down you 'orrible lot! It's time for the weekly sermon from Yours Trudi...
Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Why doesn't she prepare and then read from a script? Very embarrassing for all concerned.
I know who I would rather have supporting me if I had to choose between Trudi or Mike?
Whether we agree with all, some or none of the CT/OS I think most will agree it's a vast improvement on Mike and 'The Jeremy Bamber Forum'!
Mike's disgusting - Troods makes naff videos and is always begging for money to help a child murderer.
Six and two threes.
I know who I would rather have supporting me if I had to choose between Trudi or Mike?
Whether we agree with all, some or none of the CT/OS I think most will agree it's a vast improvement on Mike and 'The Jeremy Bamber Forum'!
The Campaign team website and Mike allege almost the same exact things including tales of the raid team using the crime scene for training. Mike is worse in that he wants personal aggrandizement and elevates himself to a witness. Ie he claimed her personally saw photos of Sheila in the kitchen and on the bed and even stole on eof the photos and mailed the to Jeremy. It amazes me that some people actually believe him and give him credence at all in anything. The only use he serves at all is in providing documents. His interpretation of those documents and everything else he spouts is worthless the raw documents help provide some answers. Many of these documents the Campaign team would rather not have people see mind you because they help to refute their nonsense.I met a compatriot of yours on the Injustice Anywhere forum. He was very involved with the Knox/Sollecito case and was interested in having a look at JB's case. Based on what he knew he was inclined to see JB as innocent but wanted to see all available info incl all SoC photos before committing himself further. Scipio I am sure you will tell me if he did he would find JB guilty as charged!
Being asked to choose between the campaign team and Mike is like being asked to choose between getting half your foot cut off and 3 quarters. Both options suck, one sucks only slightly less. The bakeoff was one of the dumbest things I ever heard of so far as trying to help someone convicted. People were asking if it was too tasteless and other things along those lines. I just found it dumb and wondered how someone could conceive something so stupid and pointless. If one was told they had to live off the difference between the Campaign team and Mike he/she might as well just bend over and kiss his/her butt goodbye.
I met a compatriot of yours on the Injustice Anywhere forum. He was very involved with the Knox/Sollecito case and was interested in having a look at JB's case. Based on what he knew he was inclined to see JB as innocent but wanted to see all available info incl all SoC photos before committing himself further. Scipio I am sure you will tell me if he did he would find JB guilty as charged!
http://injusticeinperugia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/grassroots-organization-that-helped.html
Can there be any reason JB/CT want to withhold documents and photos? I understand it is possible to deal with SoC photos and images sensitively so as not to upset and cause offence to anyone. With regard to the twins I can't even see how photos/images would be necessary since it seems clear they were shot in their beds asleep unlike the other victims.
Mike's disgusting - Troods makes naff videos and is always begging for money to help a child murderer.
Six and two threes.
For forensic tests...what forensic tests?
The Campaign team website and Mike allege almost the same exact things including tales of the raid team using the crime scene for training. Mike is worse in that he wants personal aggrandizement and elevates himself to a witness. Ie he claimed her personally saw photos of Sheila in the kitchen and on the bed and even stole on eof the photos and mailed the to Jeremy. It amazes me that some people actually believe him and give him credence at all in anything. The only use he serves at all is in providing documents. His interpretation of those documents and everything else he spouts is worthless the raw documents help provide some answers. Many of these documents the Campaign team would rather not have people see mind you because they help to refute their nonsense.
Being asked to choose between the campaign team and Mike is like being asked to choose between getting half your foot cut off and 3 quarters. Both options suck, one sucks only slightly less. The bakeoff was one of the dumbest things I ever heard of so far as trying to help someone convicted. People were asking if it was too tasteless and other things along those lines. I just found it dumb and wondered how someone could conceive something so stupid and pointless. If one was told they had to live off the difference between the Campaign team and Mike he/she might as well just bend over and kiss his/her butt goodbye.
Holly, they clearly aren't interested in debating the Jeremy Bamber case in publc, the fact that Bamber himself hasn't even bothered to acknowledge your kind invitation speaks volumes.
As far as I can make out this latest incentive is more about Trudi than it is about Jeremy Bamber.
I haven't heard from JB since the beginning of the year. No acknowledgment whatsoever of the invitation to the CT to join in a debate.
Why not make all docs available on the OS. Sure many lay people will probably misunderstand, misinterpret but it doesn't really matter as only experts meeting the criteria of expert witness will have any sway. If such and such said JB was a horrible man blah, blah who cares it's not going to change anything either way. I can understand JB/CT not wanting to release SoC sensitive photos/images but other than that I want to see everything pleeze!
I haven't heard from JB since the beginning of the year. No acknowledgment whatsoever of the invitation to the CT to join in a debate.
Why not make all docs available on the OS. Sure many lay people will probably misunderstand, misinterpret but it doesn't really matter as only experts meeting the criteria of expert witness will have any sway. If such and such said JB was a horrible man blah, blah who cares it's not going to change anything either way. I can understand JB/CT not wanting to release SoC sensitive photos/images but other than that I want to see everything pleeze!
It's all about selfies... anything but open debate!
https://twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/692081131714416640?ref_src=twsrc (https://twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/692081131714416640?ref_src=twsrc)
Oh blimey. 8(8-))
I love Susan Penhaligon, she was gorgeous in Bouquet of Barbed Wire. I wonder why she's doing this?
Susan features on the 'Patrons and Supporters' page of the OS.
I wonder if Susan Penhaligon is the same Susan who posted on Blue? Perhaps not as I think Blue Susan changed stance.
That prog wreaked havoc with my adolescent hormones. I'm not sure who I fancied most Gavin or Peter. Peter was old enough to be my grandfather! I was allowed to stay up and watch it as it was on a Fri sadly not the case for Rock Follies which was on a Wednesday 8)><(
I wonder if the connection with Susan Penhaligon is in any way linked to the actor Don Hawkins who SC dated? Susan and Don both featured in the 70's tv series 'Seven Faces of Women'?
Susan features on the 'Patrons and Supporters' page of the OS.
I wonder if Susan Penhaligon is the same Susan who posted on Blue? Perhaps not as I think Blue Susan changed stance.
I only watched the first episode of BoBW because Frank Finlay was a local lad made good (as was Robert Shaw)... any more and it would have bored the pants off me.
Bit of a tenuous link between SP and DH there, Holly. You're going back 41 years to 1974!... although there was probably one between SC and DH (if you believe the News of the World)... http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4436.0 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4436.0)
You think that Susan Penhaligon might be susan ingham?????
Holl, have you been ripping a bong?
I'm no fan of Jeremy as you know but what would be his motivation to give the public access to everything? He cares about himself not the public having access to everything in the case.
CAL makes several references to Don's relationship with SC. He provided a WS dated 8th Oct '85. Don and Susan worked together on a tv series so maybe they became friends and hung out together in London and somehow, somewhere they met SC. They may even have met JB.
Donald Hawkins was of a different opinion than it seems Susan Penhaligon is now...
Don Hawkins declared that his former girlfriend ‘didn’t have the manual dexterity to handle a gun. I remember that she had trouble opening a can of beans with the tin opener.’ It crossed his mind that Sheila might have returned to the troubled state of mind she was in when she had rung him from hospital, but felt she was incapable of violence nonetheless. (Donald Hawkins, w/s, 8 October 1985).
Lee, Carol Ann. The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. (pp. 201-202). Pan Macmillan.
I only watched the first episode of BoBW because Frank Finlay was a local lad made good (as was Robert Shaw)... any more and it would have bored the pants off me.
Bit of a tenuous link between SP and DH there, Holly. You're going back 41 years to 1974!... although there was probably one between SC and DH (if you believe the News of the World)... http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4436.0 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4436.0)
I'm no fan of JB's either!
The poster I mentioned the other day on the Injustice Anywhere forum who provided support on the Knox/Sollecito case said it would be a good idea to have all material released and have many eyes pore over it or words to this effect. He obviously has a proven track record working these cases so I took on board his comments.
That person either incorrectly assumes he is innocent and that there might be something in the evidence to prove that or simply wants the information like we do and wishes they would publish it.
Publishing all the evidence in this case including the COLP Report, all the COLP interview documents not released so far and the parts of the Dickinson report that even Mike doesn't dare publish will simply refute a lot of the BS made by Jeremy supporters and make it even more obvious he is guilty. If they publish things Jeremy received that his supporters want to pretend the police are concealing that will prove them liars and take away their whole fictional BS about there being evidence of innocence that police are hiding.
If being paid to represent Jeremy I would not advise Jeremy to go through the expense and effort of publishing everything it would not help him at all. Legal minds already combed through the evidence came up with the best BS arguments they could try to make on the basis of such and those efforts still failed miserably. The notion the public will find something is nonsense. The public didn't find anything in the Knox case the lawyers did and even pointed out the problems in the trial. The judges ignored common sense and facts to irrationally declare them guilty. The initial acquittal made that clear and this angered a panel of appellate judges who demanded she be convicted and sent it for a retrial because they wanted the pretense that the prosecution and trial was not a total sham. Those judges were humiliated when a more senior body of judges effectively ruled they were wrong as well as the initial trial court and acquitted Sollecitto and Knox outright. The same arguments made to the Court of Cassation were made at trial it is just that the Court of Cassation faced such evidence instead of ignoring it and making up nonsense.
US going through all the documents will not help Jeremy at all we want to go through them for our own benefit not his and it would be for our own benefit it would not help him at all. The notion something is hiding in the documents that lawyers missed which proves him innocent is not at all credible. The notion police would create let alone keep documents which prove evidence was planted and that Jeremy is innocent is as ludicrous as Mike's most outrageous claims. It's a pipedream that there is something in the mountain of documents Jeremy has that could prove he is innocent. The documents will just make even more clear why the government thinks Jeremy is guilty that offers no benefit to him.
Nor does the CCRC's rejection help him so he won't release it in full even though I wish the UK were like the US and such were a public record which the government had to make available to all not just the appellant.
I can't fault Jeremy for not releasing everything. His detractors will simply use it to prove his campaign team to be a bunch of liars and sift through it to find even more evidence to point to regarding his guilt. His supporters already looked through and cherry picked what they could fathom using to help him and only released those claims as opposed to everything which can be used to hurt him instead.
A website for killer Dennis Dechaine posted the transcripts from the trial as well as most of the briefs and other filings. Instead of having to pay to have access to everything it was posted. If one reads through everything it hurts Dechaine instead of helping him because you see how many lies he told and all the evidence that is against him and how it is impossible someone else committed the murders and framed him. His supporters believe delusional things to try to pretend he was framed by the real killer. Posting all the evidence proves they are delusional and that he is guilty. I don't think Jeremy posting everything would benefit him anymore than such aided Dechaine. Reading the testimony it is clear Dechaine came off very bad on the witness stand and lied both on the stand as well as to police when they first encountered him. He made up a ridiculous story about buying drugs in a bathroom among other things.
But even worse his own testimony ruled out the nonsense his supporters were spewing. To make things short he kidnapped a girl, left a receipt with his name behind int he driveway of the house he kidnapped her from, tied and gagged her using his rope and bandana, raped and killed her by strangling her with his scarf several hundred feet from his truck, buried her in a shallow grave in deep brush then walked the wrong way and got lost in the woods. Some people tried to help him find his truck but left him with police. He knew police would find the body near his truck so lied saying he left his keys in the truck and hid his keys in the police car so that if they found the body then he could say someone else stole his truck and used it.
His supporters maintain someone else stole his truck to kidnap her, dumped the receipt int he driveway to frame him and used the items from the truck to kill her and left her body near the truck in further efforts to frame him. She was kidnapped around 1PM and a witness saw Dechaine's truck leaving the scene. The receipt was found in the driveway at 3PM. So this means the killer would have to have stolen his truck very early in order to be able to plant the evidence, use it to kinap her, use his belongings from the truck to bind/kill her and then bury her body near it. Yet his own trial testimony was that he parked it for the last time around 6PM and then could not locate it again after this time.
It's not possible for someone to steal his truck after 6pm and go back in time and plant the receipt so it could be found at 3PM. So his own website blows the nonsense claims of his supporters right out of the water. In the meantime you learn about how he initially told police he had been no where near the road where the girl was kidnapped from but soon after described the house the girl was kidnapped from to police (thus proving he had been there because how else could he describe it) and claimed he pulled into the driveway to turn around and take a leak nearby and this must be how his receipt fell out in the driveway. The more you read the worse it gets.
If Jeremy's interrogations had not been published we would not have known about several lies he told or several changes in his accounts to police. These din't help him they hurt him. Ignorance is a best friend to propagandists.
His Campaign Team relies on ignorance and it would be sheer folly to release all the documents.
As far as I am aware the CT have set up an electronic document storage and retrieval system which includes all case related documents. Whether this should be made publicly available as an add-on to the OS I don't know. I doubt very much whether there is anything anywhere that is either harmful or helpful to JB's case. Simply a load of docs that can be interpreted in many ways. The only docs that are relevant imo are those drawn up by expert witnesses such as Dr Vanezis, Dr Ferguson and lab staff at FSS.
As far as I can see there's no firm evidence JB lied.
Legal minds are far from the be all and end all. What do a bunch of UK based lawyers no about firearms, psychology, pathology? WHF was a crime scene like no other witnessed in the UK and most, if not all, were out of their depth in terms of training and experience.
Publishing all the evidence in this case including the COLP Report, all the COLP interview documents not released so far and the parts of the Dickinson report that even Mike doesn't dare publish will simply refute a lot of the BS made by Jeremy supporters and make it even more obvious he is guilty. If they publish things Jeremy received that his supporters want to pretend the police are concealing that will prove them liars and take away their whole fictional BS about there being evidence of innocence that police are hiding.
How can you be so sure of that if you have not seen the content?
I know the Campaign team have some of the Dickenson interview notes because they quote from them.
Mike has refused to release the re-investigation and trial sections. The rest of the report was posted, why won't he post these sections? They would detail the dates things were conveyed to police in September and detail when things were tested and thus refute many of Mike's lies that is why.
The Campaign cherry picks selected passages from anything they want. Most of the time thy don't quote at all they just give their own rendition of what something says and list the document as the source but don't post the document so you can't check. If you could go read it yourself you can see they distorted.
You don't think it is harmful to Jeremy's cause to release documents that detail every allegation and detail in full why police say he did it? The more details of why the more guilty he looks. I think that it is a horrible idea from the defense standpoint to release it all.
Lawyers know a lot about many different topics because we have to. In order to be able to cross examine expert witnesses we have to seek out our own training to be able to comprehend it. That is sometimes achieved by research sometimes by consulting our own experts. Jeremy's lawyers had experts go over it some of whom did not testify and I think this actually helps illustrate my point.
Why didn't they have Lincoln testify? Lincoln rejected the notion that the blood could be a mixture. Moreover, he found group A blood on 8 baffles and also near the opening. He assessed the blood near the opening could only have come from Sheila. They knew their own witness could hurt Jeremy so failed to call him. Indeed if they called him he would have refuted the very argument they made to the jury of it possibly being a mixture.
In the same way they chose not to reveal such to the jury because it went against their arguments, Jeremy supporters don't want everything released. The COA learned about Lincoln and even used some of his work in support of their ruling. Why would Jeremy or his supporters want everything out there so that detractors could select from it to bolster their case against Jeremy /use such to refute the arguments made by the campaign team? I see no benefit from release possible only the potential to harm.
The lawyers already went over every angle possible with experts and that is how they came up with the limited crap they argued on appeal. With the exception of testing the hair/head GSR samples if they still existed there is really no avenue to pursue forensically. It seems they do not exist anymore though so that it even a dead end.
Post conviction reviews of the evidence hurt Jeremy instead of helping because they realized Sheila was dragged flat very soon after she was killed and very shortly after being dragged flat thus her blood was still wet, the Bible was placed in a pool of blood that formed after she was moved flat. Vanezis missed such and so did the lab apparently. Sometimes that happens. One case in our law school defense clinic an additional witness was found who fingered the convict. Those are the risks you take in having things re-examined. Since we dropped helping him such wasn't publicly released. If people want to push it and get everything they will find out the bad though.
If you find helpful evidence then you release that particular evidence you don't say here read everything and take special note of this little bit of positive evidence...
I haven't heard from JB since the beginning of the year. No acknowledgment whatsoever of the invitation to the CT to join in a debate.
Why not make all docs available on the OS. Sure many lay people will probably misunderstand, misinterpret but it doesn't really matter as only experts meeting the criteria of expert witness will have any sway. If such and such said JB was a horrible man blah, blah who cares it's not going to change anything either way. I can understand JB/CT not wanting to release SoC sensitive photos/images but other than that I want to see everything pleeze!
To prove this allegation you will have to A prove mike has those documents in his possession and then B prove he is aware he has them and understands the content.
If the Campaign team has proof to refute their own claims that would mean they are stupid. The likes of Andrew Hunter, Michael O'Brien and Flo Krause are not stupid people so if what you are saying is true then they are deliberately misleading the public, a rather bold accusation to make.
I do find it interesting that the relatives have not taken libel action against Hunter or the producers of the documentary that say his family framed him.
Hunter is not so bright if you ask me, as for O'Brien he is biased and going on bias not anything substantive to believe in Jeremy.
Mike intentionally refused to post everything and despite saying at one time or another he woulf post the entire report he hasn't wand why is obvious it refutes his lies.
Propagandists do not conduct a search for the truth they want to pretend things are how they wish them to be and try to convince others to believe such by using any means at their disposal.
2 quotes from Joseph Goebbels:
“That propaganda is good which leads to success, and that is bad which fails to achieve the desired result. It is not propaganda’s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success.”
“It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”
The list of high profile supporters of Jeremy Bamber must be extremely tiny because association with a double child killer who also murdered his adoptive parents and sister must do little to enhance their credibility but can anyone list them for the sake of completeness?
Remember that any names put forward must be accompanied by supporting material.
Hunter is not so bright if you ask me, as for O'Brien he is biased and going on bias not anything substantive to believe in Jeremy.
Mike intentionally refused to post everything and despite saying at one time or another he woulf post the entire report he hasn't wand why is obvious it refutes his lies.
The Campaign team are propagandists like Mike they assert many untrue things and misrepresent what materials say in order to support their nonsense. I gave you one example with Jeapes. They do that with many witnesses. They even assert Nevill phoned police and that Bonnett's log proves it because it is the log of Nevill's call even though it clearly states the message was passed to West from Jeremy and then passed by West to him. Even though it was a trial exhibit they claim it was lost and suddenly found.
Letting everyone see everything will just allow people to understand even more what evidence goes against Jeremy and refutes the campaign team it would not be in their interest to release everything. Just as it would not be beneficial for Jeremy or his advocates to release the CCRC rejection so people can see just how bad the smackdown was which not only would make Jeremy look bad but the advocates who put on such pathetic showing.
Researchers want access to everything to try to learn the truth. Propagandists desire to shape people's perceptions of what the truth is by limiting what information is available and trying to get people to believe their rendition. Lawyers do the same in trying to keep evidence out of court such as confessions and suppression of damning evidence. If someone is arrested and not read their rights and tells where a body is then they obviously are guilty. Suppressing the evidence that he lead them to the body would be hiding the truth that he did it. But that is done to deter the government from ignoring rights that they would have no motivation to follow otherwise. Of course there are other ways to handle it such as to punish the police but the courts made up their own exclusion rule instead to deter. In addition to deterring the rule prevents the government from being able to profit from violations. So it is not just a raw search for the truth in court but a contest where adversaries oppose eachother using set rules and have to prove their case under those restrictions.
Propagandists do not conduct a search for the truth they want to pretend things are how they wish them to be and try to convince others to believe such by using any means at their disposal.
2 quotes from Joseph Goebbels:
“That propaganda is good which leads to success, and that is bad which fails to achieve the desired result. It is not propaganda’s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success.”
“It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”
The list of high profile supporters of Jeremy Bamber must be extremely tiny because association with a double child killer who also murdered his adoptive parents and sister must do little to enhance their credibility but can anyone list them for the sake of completeness?
Remember that any names put forward must be accompanied by supporting material.
Blimey Scipio that's a bit of a tenuous link isn't it? Third Reich, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda and JB's CT, OS and Trudi Benjamin?! &%+((£
Mike has recently admitted to mental illness. Other than Mike why would anyone lie, distort etc for a 'child killer'? People genuinely misunderstand, misinterpret and perceive things differently that are open to interpretation. Only evidence/data that is measurable in scientific terms really counts for anything in this case imo such as the pathological evidence, firearms/ballistics, biological (blood 'evidence') and psychological and psychiatric reports for June and Sheila.
Eg take a look at this image. Some people see an old female and some a young female. Some can see both straight away (rare) and some will see both when a.n other points out both can be seen. Others are unable to see both. This imo can be applied to all aspects of the case that are open to interpretation:
Why do they do it? That requires examining them in great detail. Why do so many women throw themselves at convicts? Recently it was revealed that some woman fell in love with the Unabomber while he was in prison and even tried to say he did nothing wrong. What is wrong with such people? Obviously you would have to examine her in great detail to find out what her problems were. Some of them have severe mental defects others emotional problems that leave them short of being insane but still damaged. There is not enough time to talk about all the screwed up people out there whose issues manifest in a host of different ways.
It doesn't matter that Goebbels was a Nazi his quotes pertained to propagandanot the validity of the Nazi regime. The first notes how people who engage in propaganda believe. Propaganda is only bad if it fails to achieve their objective. Trying to get people to believe you way of thinking by hook or by crook is totally acceptable to them.
Moreover, they feel they can twist anything if repeated enough and aiming it at the right people.
They can't find anything legitimate to use to try to convince the public of Jeremy's innocence so they make up all sorts of things from proof of Nevill phoning police to general attacks on the police to create an air of suspicion that they and the family framed him. When all that smokescreen crap is taken away they have nothing. It is just worthless bogus propaganda.
Hunter among others cited this worthless propaganda and that is why the efforts of these high profile people went no where.
Propagandists are so hell bent on getting people to believe what they want others to believe that they will say anything.
Why do they do it? That requires examining them in great detail. Why do so many women throw themselves at convicts? Recently it was revealed that some woman fell in love with the Unabomber while he was in prison and even tried to say he did nothing wrong. What is wrong with such people? Obviously you would have to examine her in great detail to find out what her problems were. Some of them have severe mental defects others emotional problems that leave them short of being insane but still damaged. There is not enough time to talk about all the screwed up people out there whose issues manifest in a host of different ways.
I don't have a horse in this race I only care about the truth of whether Jeremy is innocent or not based on the evidence and facts. They are emotionally invested in Jeremy being innocent and will twist anything they can to use in support of their position.
Take an issue we just discussed the casings. Someone acting like them who is emotionally invested in Jeremy being guilty would post the statement about the casing being found under her body and say this is proof that her body was moved and dumped on top of it. Such person would ignore the other evidence that it was not directly under her body but simply close to it. Someone objective will note all the evidence surrounding it and discuss which one they think is accurate and why. Someone biased will not disclose the rest and pretend that there is just one account and it is thus fact. Sometimes they do more and outright lie and say a square is a circle.
The Dr Phil show has had on numerous people, men and women, who got scammed by Nigerian scammers pretending to be in love with them who got the to give tons of money. He proved the documents they sent were forged and fake and yet these people still refused to admit and face they were being scammed because they did not want to face the truth. Some people hide from the truth in fantasy worlds they create because they are less ugly. Some people don't want to admit they were fooled and wasted so much time supporting someone who didn't deserve it. Some use Jeremy's case for their own ends, mike definitely does so to obtain attention no one would otherwise give him. You would have to look hard at each campaign team member to find out what their deal is. For some of them it is like a religion almost. They have a group of people they like to socialize with and they care about having a cause to push to help occupy their time. There are malcontents who don't care what the cause is they just go city to city taking part in demonstrations no matter what they might be. The possibilities are endless of why one can end up joining a cause.
This sort of thing isn't just restricted to females! I know a guy who has to my mind a very odd relationship with a woman he met in Thailand some 12/13 years ago! The woman is some 30 years his junior and he sends her £000's of pounds every year for tickets, etc to visit him (this happens about 6 times a year, every year). She turns up once every 3/4 years. You simply wouldn't believe the reasons she gives for not turning up. Everyone tries to tell him including his family but no he will not have it. The average Thai earns about sterling equivalent 3k a year and he sends about 12k a year on average. The etc = apparently she claims she needs to show the officials issuing a visa to travel to England that she needs X thousand in her bank account so she can support herself when she arrives. Even though on the odd occasion she turns up she stays with the guy and he pays for everything. The guy is personable, intelligent, attractive looking and has money! Now people have given up trying to talk sense into him.
What's she called... Polly Poontang?
There's method in his madness though, because if he lived with her in a block of flats in Thailand he might end up as pavement pizza after being 'suicidally' thrown out of a window by Polly's other boyfriends... as many lonely white European men are.
Few!All the girls take on short names to assist the farangs! He does visit Thailand but rarely stays with her. He is usually resigned/banished to a hotel.
So is that a refusal by default Holly?
The CT are trying to gain support for JB. They are asking us, the public, to write to our MP's and MEP's to lobby for full disclosure of documents, sign petitions and make financial donations (we'll forget about the request to bake a cake!). All good things imo but surely they must realise that to gain the support they are seeking most will want to be fully informed and this means full disclosure of all case related material.
Thank you for providing that list of declared high profile supporters Holly, it is very interesting. You put an enormous effort into your posts so well done.
Sorry haven't got back to you about the post moves but with bloody gales and driving rain galore these days the poor sheep and lambs take precedence.
Question Time...
The vlog asked an interesting question. Whether there were more suitable bullets for the rifle for a massacre attempt. There wasn't.
It then says there was an air gun and shot gun and concludes that these were better weapons for Bamber. Although he couldn't claim to have left either of these out, fully loaded, for Sheila, after going to shoot rabbits.
A shot gun wouldn't have had enough bullets to kill everyone without a reload, which was something Bamber would have wanted to avoid. And would have been very loud and maybe too gruesome for even Bamber.
I don't know how a new CCRC application can be submitted if the police are withholding the major evidence which, if true would certainly free him.
This weeks vlog:
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/ (http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/)
Oh Myster please do your thing and make it larger for me 8**8:/:
I've never understood the argument JB left the rifle out for SC. If it was left out the chances are NB unloaded the mag and returned the rifle and mag to the gun cupboard/den. None of the weapons were locked away so anyone inside WHF had access to them.
This weeks vlog:
Oh Myster please do your thing and make it larger for me.
This weeks vlog:
Oh Myster please do your thing and make it larger for me.
The hollow point bullets sound lethal. They are likened to a food mixer 8(8-))
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet
"In killing, hollow points are designed to increase in diameter once within the target, thus maximizing tissue damage and blood loss or shock, and to remain inside the target, thereby transferring all of the kinetic energy to the target (whereas some fraction would remain in the bullet if it passed through instead)".
I've never unnderstood the argument JB left the rifle out for SC. If it was left out the chances are NB unloaded the mag and returned the rifle and mag to the gun cupboard/den. None of the weapons were locked away so anyone inside WHF had access to them.
Trood deffo glammed up this week...'Oh Mat'... 8**8:/:
I wonder if, one day, when she actually looks into the case in depth, or (more likely) Bamber dumps her because the money doesn't happen, that patronising, dismissive little wave and "just go away and do some research" comes back and bites Troods on the bum?
I give it six months.
Did Bamber really tell a supporter to 'mind her own business', after she asked him 'what for', when he asked her for money ? Or was it words to that effect ?
Either way, he was asking for money, but refusing to disclose what it would be used for. Probably because it was being used for something pretty lame again. If she found out, she wouldn't donate.
It was her business, as it was her money.
I've lost count of the people who Bamber has crapped on once he deems them to be of no further use in his machinations, and that's just since 2011. IMO it's further proof of his psychopathy, and he's obviously still as impatient, short-sighted, greedy and callous as he was 30 years ago.
God only knows why anyone feels the need to see him as some poor, misunderstood, simple little tinker who burgled the caravan park and broke Ralph's heart for a prank. Maybe they should read some books and witness statements. And get out more.
This weeks vlog:
Oh Myster please do your thing and make it larger for me.
Gasp! I've just noticed - what's that Percy Filth hanging on the door?
Blimey, you're rolling back the years! Here's Percy Filth again with naughty bits strategically covered...
Ooh er - you'd think that Bamber would see enough of men's bums, without Matt shoving one in his face. So to speak.
Just when I think that these vlogs can't get any worse, they do. When you're floundering, have a pop at Julie, eh Troods? Somehow I doubt if this will get the donations flooding in, and don't forget, you've only got 6 months!!
6 months to do what ?
This weeks Vlog:
Flat, dull, boring, uninspiring.....it's as though this new bunch are 5 years behind red and blue. And is that really the best they've got? "Send us your money or you lot out there will deffo be convicted of murdering your family. Seriously. It WILL happen."
As usual, it's "Hello! And welcome to the world of Troods! This week, I'm saying um a lot and frantically taking my glasses on and off in another noisy pub!" And poor Poppy looks exhausted and a bit embarrassed.
Thank goodness the old Bamberbirds are sucking up and vying for attention, and not doing anything important. Or something that involves heavy machinery.
This weeks vlog:
Oh Myster please do your thing and make it larger for me.
Flat, dull, boring, uninspiring.....it's as though this new bunch are 5 years behind red and blue. And is that really the best they've got? "Send us your money or you lot out there will deffo be convicted of murdering your family. Seriously. It WILL happen."
As usual, it's "Hello! And welcome to the world of Troods! This week, I'm saying um a lot and frantically taking my glasses on and off in another noisy pub!" And poor Poppy looks exhausted and a bit embarrassed.
Thank goodness the old Bamberbirds are sucking up and vying for attention, and not doing anything important. Or something that involves heavy machinery.
Jeremy Bamber's belated graveside eulogy...
Jeremy Bamber's belated graveside eulogy...
Oh dear God.
Trudi Benjamin, do you honestly not understand how shameful and offensive this is?
I agree - the Great Bamber Bake Off was bad enough - but this is completely shameful!
Caro, I didn't think that anything could be worse than "my Mum's cakes were to die for" but THIS is immoral and indefensible. And hopefully, illegal.
It didn't take you long to jump the shark did it, Trudi Benjamin?
Too far. Way, way too far.
When Bamber is finished with Trudi and gives her the boot - I hope that people are around to keep on reminding Trudi, and the world, how she sold her soul and walked on the memory of murder victims for Ol' Jeremy.
Caro, I didn't think that anything could be worse than "my Mum's cakes were to die for" but THIS is immoral and indefensible. And hopefully, illegal.
It didn't take you long to jump the shark did it, Trudi Benjamin?
Too far. Way, way too far.
When Bamber is finished with Trudi and gives her the boot - I hope that people are around to keep on reminding Trudi, and the world, how she sold her soul and walked on the memory of murder victims for Ol' Jeremy.
Blimey, I thought I'd dreamt this disgrace.
I've seen some disgusting stuff done in Bamber's name, but this beats the lot.
Hang your head in shame, Trudi Benjamin. You desperate groupie.
I've made my views known on all of this many times on this forum and to JB via email:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7076.msg311861#msg311861
I've also been very critical of the way other 'supporters' have gone about supporting JB such as Mike and to a lesser degree Lookout and Jackie.
It seems odd to me how some in the guilty camp want to single the CT out for public censure but appear to condone the likes of Mike &%+((£
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6489.msg258477#msg258477
The CT do not publish photos/images of the victims unlike The Jeremy Bamber Forum.
Yes I believe JB is innocent but I operate independently. I am not affiliated with any group.
Censure? No, a little decency wouldn't go amiss though! Standing over the victims grave reading out a letter from the person convicted of killing them and then post it on Youtube is VERY poor judgement and totally ghoulish. I certainly don't condone some of the things that Mike has done but she has surpassed even him!
Jeremy Bamber's belated graveside eulogy...
Thanks Admin.
It seems to me the Vlog is an extension of the Blogs. With the recent Vlog themed for Mother's Day hence the Vlog ends "Happy Mothers Day".
Here's last year's Mother's Day Blog:
http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-max=2015-04-01T09:09:00%2B01:00&max-results=20&start=4&by-date=false
JB clearly drafts these things and the CT/Trudi use various mediums to publish.
Regardless of who initiated the graveside reading JB or the CT/Trudi imo it's all totally inappropriate, a private matter and nothing whatsoever to do with any MoJ.
If I had to hazard a guess I would say it was initiated by the CT/Trudi to build on the weekly Vlogs. However unless the CT/Trudi have doctored the letter, which seems unlikely, JB must have approved hence the beginning and end of the letter/graveside reading make reference to "being there" and "sitting in the little church yard".
It seems clear the objective was publicity on the basis any publicity is good publicity. None of the papers included it in the printed editions just online.
If the intent was to get good press coverage that certainly backfired...
It's just occurred to me that -as far as I know- it wasn't mentioned on Look East, BBC's local news.
It doesn't sound like anything journalists should cover period. Why should the press or public care about this? The outlet that did cover it only did so in order to be critical so it certainly wasn't worth the effort of notifying them that it would take place.
Transcription of the Vlog.
Dear mum and dad, I wish with all my heart that I could be there to read my letter to you myself, but it won't be long now before justice will be done and I will be able to visit you myself. Dad, I know you hated injustice and would never have let me suffer as I have done these last 30 years for a crime I did not commit. It must be heartbreaking for you looking down and seeing me punished for no reason and that the British Justice System has failed me. I am so very proud of you; I was lucky enough to get hold of your war records some time ago dad and they're fascinating. I can picture you flying your Mosquito and imagine what a teriffic pilot you must have been, taking part in so many missions. And mum! Well, only last week I was astounded when I received your war records. I knew you had served with the FANY's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Aid_Nursing_Yeomanry) but you never spoke to anyone very much about serving your country in India, Ceylon and the Far East and I was amazed when I read that you had been part of the Special Operations Executive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Executive), which as far as I know is a predecessor to the SAS, it made me cry to see your signature on the documents as I didn't have any idea that you were so accomplished and I feel so honoured to have such brave parents. There are many times when I have felt overwhelmed with sadness, because my fight for justice means that Sheila is put centre stage in my fight for Justice, which of course, is right I suppose, but a mental health illness means that she was not culpable for her actions in a legal sense. You both know how close Sheila and I were and the happy times we shared together and I will always love my sister as I will always love you both. It saddens me everyday that I did not have a greater understanding of what Sheila endured with her schizophrenia and how fragile she was, needing so much more help than we ever realised. I vow though, that when I achieve my freedom, I will do all I can, not only to honour Sheila's memory, I will do all that I can to help organisations which help with people who suffer from mental health issues. I will never stop fighting against the injustice of my wrongful conviction or to put the record straight about you, about Sheila. People have over the years said such cruel and untrue things about you, when you were caring, kind and gentle people, who would do whatever you could to help others and this has deeply upset me. I miss you all – every moment of every day, but I hope you're proud of the man I am and the determination I have to continue fighting. I do have people who are there for me, friends who stand by me and help out everyday in my fight for both your honour and my freedom. I'm not on my own and I don't want you to worry because it won't be long now before I'll be sitting in the little church yard myself and will be able to visit your grave in person. I love you with all my heart - Jeremy
Yes they did .....
Oh! I was in a Waitrose cafe having a cuppa peppermint tea and took the opportunity of thumbing through the Mirror and Telegraph. As I wasn't able to find the online articles I wrongly assumed the same would apply to the Mail and Sun.
Btw Waitrose is a food retailer. I'm not sure if you have them in the North. I understand it's more Greggs. Hence fat birds from feasting on the crumbs 8(0(*
Ciao
Yes they did .....
Of course we have Waitrose oop North... we don't still live in caves, you know!
Trouble is, they're too bl**dy expensive, so we shop at Lidl and Aldi for essentials and then nip to Sainsburys for the luxuries.
Ooh, look. Trood's resting desperate groupie face.
I hope she's chuffed with herself, she's really pissed on Bamber's ovenchips this time.
Ooh er!! I actually tried to steer BT into Waitrose (Kenilworth) today! But he wriggled from my grasp and waddled into Poundland. He bought a sink plunger, some raisins, a bottle of Lynx shower gel and some string.@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* This lady has to be the one of the funniest people on the Internet.
It's going to be a busy night. 8)><(
I wonder if Troods realises how much damage she's done? Dragging Bamber from under the radar and making him look like a sick hybrid of Fred West, Mick Philpott and O.J. Simpson?
Well done, Troods!! And the best of luck with Slimming World!! 8((()*/
I don't think that she is aware of the damage that she has done, she tried to limit the damage by taking responsibility for the letter and saying that it wasn't Bambers idea - which is strange. Almost sounds like she is admitting it was a BAD thing to do but don't blame Bamber - it was her.
Yes, the only food shop we have here is Greggs @)(++(* - I guess you think Waitrose and peppermint tea is the pinnacle of good taste! Oh dear!
By the way, you could have just said 'thanks' for posting the article - no need for the bitchiness. 8(>((
Ugh. Why would anyone want to take the credit for trampling their great fat hooves all over the resting place of a good and decent couple?
#happyvalleyfrances
I'll try and dig out my email where I advised JB to go steady on the blogs re the victims and that I didn't agree with the bake off. So much for my influence 8)><(
One word to describe Trudi's vlog imo HEINOUS. It's embarrassing for supporters such as myself who put a decent shift in looking at the evidence and then TB pops up with a stunt like that. 8(8-))
I'll try and dig out my email where I advised JB to go steady on the blogs re the victims and that I didn't agree with the bake off. So much for my influence 8)><(
One word to describe Trudi's vlog imo HEINOUS. It's embarrassing for supporters such as myself who put a decent shift in looking at the evidence and then TB pops up with a stunt like that. 8(8-))
Doesn't sound like you'll be too keen on posting the next one... after all that I've taught you!
Oh I do beg your pardon! I must have forgotten my P & Q's in my haste to explain how I arrived at the wrong conclusion! I will try and and find a Greggs tomorrow and eat humble pie for lunch!
I was only joking!
Every time she "vlogs" she manages to make Bamber look an even bigger arsehole. YOU do more for Bamber than anyone - if Nelly had an ounce of gumption he'd be begging you to rejoin blue.
Terry Mullins and Polygraph testing...
Thanks Admin.
It seems to me the Vlog is an extension of the Blogs. With the recent Vlog themed for Mother's Day hence the Vlog ends "Happy Mothers Day".
Here's last year's Mother's Day Blog:
http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-max=2015-04-01T09:09:00%2B01:00&max-results=20&start=4&by-date=false
JB clearly drafts these things and the CT/Trudi use various mediums to publish.
Regardless of who initiated the graveside reading JB or the CT/Trudi imo it's all totally inappropriate, a private matter and nothing whatsoever to do with any MoJ.
If I had to hazard a guess I would say it was initiated by the CT/Trudi to build on the weekly Vlogs. However unless the CT/Trudi have doctored the letter, which seems unlikely, JB must have approved hence the beginning and end of the letter/graveside reading make reference to "being there" and "sitting in the little church yard".
It seems clear the objective was publicity on the basis any publicity is good publicity. None of the papers included it in the printed editions just online.
I wonder if Troods n Tel did lunch at Greggs afterwards? He's based in Grays, Essex but they do have three Greggs in the area.
If Tel has offices I think they may have ordered food in possibly from Greggs. Troods opting for the chicken bake x 2 with Tel opting for the steak bake x 4 plus.
https://www.greggs.co.uk/menu/pasties-and-bakes/ (https://www.greggs.co.uk/menu/pasties-and-bakes/)
Seems Greggs PR people have gone into overdrive substituting pie for bake. Probably to appeal to Southerners and compete with the likes of Itsu and Pret who dominate inside the M25. I bet in Greggs north of Watford Gap they still call a bake a pie.
... or even more tempting for a sophisticated Southern palate 8(8-)) ... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Eels_1385.JPG (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Eels_1385.JPG)
But there's nowt laak a meat pie frum t'ome o' pie-eaters - Wiggin! 8((()*/ ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2q2YV7ViuY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2q2YV7ViuY)
EELS! UGH!! %56& - perhaps we up north haven't evolved enough to appreciate the sophistication of a nice jellied eel (a bit of sick just came up! 8(8-)) ).
Thank GOD you posted the pie vid - I feel cleansed @)(++(* 8((()*/ ?>)()<
There's an Anschutz gunsmiths in Standish, so when I've grown my nails by half-an-inch (for genuine authenticity), I might nip round and ask them if I can load a magazine to see if Holly's winding us up about it being easy... then sample a beltin' scrumdiddlybloodyumptious steak pie from Pepper Lane.
I'm from Essex and I think that Greggs is well manky!
I'm from Essex and I think that Greggs is well manky!
I'm from Durham and so do I - it's Holly who has an obsession with all things pastry 8((()*/
You're getting your pastries confused! A bake and a pie are two different things! A bake and a pasty are more or less the same (being somewhat flat) whereas a pie is something quite different, with a deeper and usually circular casing - like these delicious looking morsels! Note that Greggs are responsible for the first pie in the line up https://food.list.co.uk/article/10150-taste-test-meat-pies/ (https://food.list.co.uk/article/10150-taste-test-meat-pies/). They also do a nice line in frozen delicacies http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/greggs-2-steak-and-mash-pies-630g/p/55043 (http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/greggs-2-steak-and-mash-pies-630g/p/55043)
Now Greggs have ventured south, they might even start serving some typically Southern type food - something you might feel more at home with? http://theworldandhistuktuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pieandmash.jpg (http://theworldandhistuktuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pieandmash.jpg)
8(>((
The polygraph is a fake science and has no place in the criminal justice system.
Agreed. And we've got Troods part 2 of the polygraph vlog to look forward to on Monday.
Iceland 8)><( There stores are nearly always in dodgy locations eg near bus stations. If buses are its customers mode of transport surely all the frozen food would have melted before they get home? Bet they're still fascinated by artic roll. What sort of outfit thinks its a good idea to use Kerry Katona in an ad campaign 8)><( Wouldn't touch the place.
I don't like pastry with a main meal. Not even sophisticated Southern dishes like Salmon en croute, beef wellington or filo parcel. Too dry.
Even though they sell Greggs produce?
http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/frozen-pies-and-pastries?view=list&show=All&cp=2016_c2p1&ctt=pod&cto=home (http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/frozen-pies-and-pastries?view=list&show=All&cp=2016_c2p1&ctt=pod&cto=home)
And you can avoid the hoi polloi and chewing gum-covered seats on a bus by ordering home devilry.
Jeremy Bamber's Polygraph Test part 2 (*yawn*)...
[/youtube]
They're both wearing the same clothes they had on last week. Is this a coincidence or have they been wearing them since?
If the meeting was first thing I think they may have gone for the bacon and sausage breakfast baguette:
https://www.greggs.co.uk/menu/breakfast-range/bacon-and-sausage-breakfast-baguette/
why does the subject of polygraph tests keep coming up when it's a fact that Psychopaths are adept at passing them.
They have about as much accuracy as flipping a coin or tarot cards when it comes to the truth.
Remember Gary Ridgeway would have been caught much earlier had he not passed his polygraph with flying colours, whilst some poor yokel was made prime suspect because he failed his.
why does the subject of polygraph tests keep coming up when it's a fact that Psychopaths are adept at passing them.
They have about as much accuracy as flipping a coin or tarot cards when it comes to the truth.
Remember Gary Ridgeway would have been caught much earlier had he not passed his polygraph with flying colours, whilst some poor yokel was made prime suspect because he failed his.
I wonder if Jeremy would pass this guys examination?
http://www.jacktrimarco.com/index.html (http://www.jacktrimarco.com/index.html)
Jeremy Bamber's Polygraph Test part 2 (*yawn*)...
I just can't be arsed to trudge through yet another Troods-fest. I can't watch it. It's all "look at me, I'm fighting a lost cause, Jeremy Bamber is innocent....ooh, hang on - don't eat the last jaffa-cake...."
Troods. Stop showing off, and do some research. Yes, you'll end up looking like a massive stalkery tit, but at least you won't be flushing your husband's dosh down the toilet. As you are at the moment. We've all been there, we've all originally thought that Bamber was innocent, then WE DID OUR HOMEWORK. We invested time and thought and bloody hard work and common sense, and realised that the facts are all there, plain to see.
Sorry, Troods, but you're just as crazy as the fruitbats out there who support Mark Bridger, Ian Huntley, Tabak, Ian Brady......and all the other murdering b......s who claim they're innocent. You've just joined a club that no one else wants to join.
I just can't be arsed to trudge through yet another Troods-fest. I can't watch it. It's all "look at me, I'm fighting a lost cause, Jeremy Bamber is innocent....ooh, hang on - don't eat the last jaffa-cake...."
Troods. Stop showing off, and do some research. Yes, you'll end up looking like a massive stalkery tit, but at least you won't be flushing your husband's dosh down the toilet. As you are at the moment. We've all been there, we've all originally thought that Bamber was innocent, then WE DID OUR HOMEWORK. We invested time and thought and bloody hard work and common sense, and realised that the facts are all there, plain to see.
Sorry, Troods, but you're just as crazy as the fruitbats out there who support Mark Bridger, Ian Huntley, Tabak, Ian Brady......and all the other murdering b......s who claim they're innocent. You've just joined a club that no one else wants to join.
I just can't be arsed to trudge through yet another Troods-fest. I can't watch it. It's all "look at me, I'm fighting a lost cause, Jeremy Bamber is innocent....ooh, hang on - don't eat the last jaffa-cake...."
Troods. Stop showing off, and do some research. Yes, you'll end up looking like a massive stalkery tit, but at least you won't be flushing your husband's dosh down the toilet. As you are at the moment. We've all been there, we've all originally thought that Bamber was innocent, then WE DID OUR HOMEWORK. We invested time and thought and bloody hard work and common sense, and realised that the facts are all there, plain to see.
Sorry, Troods, but you're just as crazy as the fruitbats out there who support Mark Bridger, Ian Huntley, Tabak, Ian Brady......and all the other murdering b......s who claim they're innocent. You've just joined a club that no one else wants to join.
Would that be 'The Big One'? I haven't watched part 2.
Troods if you can get an interview with David Martin-Sperry I will be all ears and eyes for that matter 8**8:/:
8(0(*
http://www.tajvirdee.co.uk/davidmartinsperry
(David Martin-Sperry represented JB in the early 90's).
This whole circus/drama that surrounds the WHF case is truly pitiful and distasteful: Mike; now behind bars bogus lawyer GDS; CT's insistence on maintaining myths that most rational supporters debunked years ago; cake baking and a graveside reading 8(8-))
One only has to take a peep at the players involved in the grassroots organisation that supported Amanda Knox to spot the difference:
http://judgesforjustice.org/J4J_Team.htm
Right I'm now going to listen to some Barry White music and think about David Martin-Sperry 8**8:/:
Cases like this attract all sorts of people, sadly. I do feel sorry for the genuine supporters that believe Bamber is innocent - and get tarred with the same brush as those that believe him innocent yet go too far with their theories.
Holly, you know Jackie is preaching about you again on the blue and offering you her twitter password? I think you have a fan/stalker.
Has your Pete sneaked off to the pub then? &%+((£
I'm allowed the odd fantasy surely? I'm sure he does!A hot bath with Nellie Pledge, maybe? 8(8-))
Cases like this attract all sorts of people, sadly. I do feel sorry for the genuine supporters that believe Bamber is innocent - and get tarred with the same brush as those that believe him innocent yet go too far with their theories.
Holly, you know Jackie is preaching about you again on the blue and offering you her twitter password? I think you have a fan/stalker.
P.S. It's your turn to post the next vlog... best of luck! 8((()*/
Reet, I'm gooin.
Even if I had Jackie's password for her twitter account I wouldn't have the faintest idea what to with it!
Jackie where's your tshirt/avatar?
http://www.zazzle.co.uk/team_holly_t_shirts-235016252301145015
You could send out a tweet asking people whether they think "I" (Jackie) belongs in a looney bin.
Jackie can be misguided and ott at times but she also has many attributes and is certainly a player on the team ?>)()<
Rather yours than mine!
I'm sure your team would be made up of perfect flawless people with no weaknesses only strengths like what you is/have 8)-)))
Far from it but there wouldn't ANYONE who was vindictive. 8)-)))
How would you know whether or not they were capable of vindictiveness until they were stabbed in the back by which time it would be too late!
Anyway I have to concentrate now on uploading Trood's Vlog now as I need to develop my IT skills.
You don't need to 'upload' it - just copy the code! 8((()*/ ?>)()<
You don't need to 'upload' it - just copy the code! 8((()*/ ?>)()<
Published on 21 Mar 2016
More from Trudi's trip to Essex: Walking the sea wall in Goldhanger.
https://youtu.be/1-mn8SCXpYg
Jackie can be misguided and ott at times but she also has many attributes and is certainly a player on the team ?>)()<
Published on 21 Mar 2016
More from Trudi's trip to Essex: Walking the sea wall in Goldhanger.
http://youtu.be/1-mn8SCXpYg
She should have done the trip on a bicycle for the sake of accuracy...on second thoughts that would have been funny @)(++(*
And as far as there being evidence that 'Sheila dun it'...let me just add... on yer bike Trudi!
Yes, I wondered about that - they keep going on about how there was no evidence but suddenly there is enough to point to Sheila? Her evidence is base on 'Sheila's mental health' which is circumstantial and yet circumstantial isn't good enough for Jeremy? She said sometimes the simplest explanation is the best one - yep, I agree - Jeremy is guilty, simple! She picks the most ridiculous theory and suggests that's what people believe, all the prosecution had to do was show that he could get to and from WHF in pretty good time and they did that. Personally I think he went on foot, he knew the area well and would have known all the short cuts and how to stay off the main road. Again - simple!
As far back as 2012 Leo Mckinstry was calling Bamber supporters 'creepy'. Trudie and the OS are doing nothing to refute this.
I've suggested that Mike, Nugs and Lookout join forces to make the public face of Bamber's support more credible.
That's the dream team that is, Ads!! 8((()*/
I was impressed with Mike's American accent in his last Youtube video.Perhaps this was to impress Jeremy, who now seems to only have eyes for Trudie.
I was impressed with Mike's American accent in his last Youtube video.Perhaps this was to impress Jeremy, who now seems to only have eyes for Trudie.
Back on topic...
JB was known to "walk it off" when talk got too heated and disagreeable. DB recalled the day at Burnt Ash Farm when Jeremy and Sheila had a fierce argument, and so he took off in a huff to walk the thirty miles back home. Colin Caffell also remembered that if there was disagreement over a matter when travelling by car, JB would get out and walk perhaps 15 to 20 miles home. So I reckon a paltry 4 miles or less would mean nothing to him. But if JB did walk on the night, rather opting for the longer the sea wall route, I think he would have chosen the shortest from behind WHF, passing by Hyde Farm, then straight onto the B1026 Maldon Road (the RED route attached). If he heard any cars approaching, he could lay low, hidden by or under a hedge until they passed, although between say 12 midnight and 3am there would be little if any traffic in such an isolated rural location. Much less in 1985 than now.
Occupants of the few houses on the home stretch to his cottage were more likely to be tucked up in bed between those hours, and so it isn't surprising that none of them would see or hear a thing. He might even have used a pathway to the rear of houses on the main road for greater concealment until he arrived closer to his cottage.
I prefer though to think that he used June's bike, as it would require less effort and energy than walking. After murdering five people he would hyped up with adrenaline, probably sweating like a pig with the stress, and needed to get back home quickly for a wash and wipe down, before raising the false alarm.
But I doubt that he drove there and back. His car was usually parked quite close to neighbouring properties, so I don't think he would risk the noise of an engine being heard by them on starting-up and returning .
He was auditioning for the part of Marlon Tesko in a remake of "Last Tango in Tolleshunt D'Arcy". 8((()*/
At least Trudie decided to discuss an issue that was discussed at trial. Rather than grave side speeches and discussions about lie detectors. And she made the effort to visit the scene.
The trouble is the video just reinforced how easy it was to cycle to WHF.
If I didn't know about the case, the Campaign Team's older 'Official Bamber videos', or any other pro Bamber video would be more persuasive than one woman having a moan.
I visited the area during the summer of 2013. It's interesting to visit all the landmarks. I hope I don't sound too creepy!? We did spend money whilst there on hotels, eating and drinking so a bit of a boost for the local economy.
The annual Easter Blog, with his same old prediction of imminent release, which will never, ever materialise...
http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/jeremys-easter-blog-2016.html (http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/jeremys-easter-blog-2016.html)
A rudimentary Google Streetview slideshow from the start of the Sea Wall footpath to Bourtree Cottage.
Click on the DOWNLOAD NOW button and save the file to your desktop, or some other convenient location...
5/file.html]http://www72.zippyshare.com/v/YYCCE[Name removed]5/file.html (http://www72.zippyshare.com/v/YYCCE[Name removed)
I'm not sure if this will function in other media players as it was made with Irfanview, a simple, safe and free program that I've used for years. If it won't work in yours, you can download Irfanview here...
http://www.irfanview.com/ (http://www.irfanview.com/)
You will also need to download the optional plug-ins to play the slideshow.
To view, simply click or double-click on the file and it should start automatically (in Irfanview).
You can use the Left and Right arrows on a keyboard to move backwards and forwards in order to overide the automatic slideshow.
IF Jeremy Bamber did use the blue Sea Wall route, he was very lucky not to be seen on the home stretch as Fish Street is only single lane with houses closely packed together, but then again it was probably way past midnight when he passed by. If a footpath to Head Street existed behind the houses on the right-hand side of Fish Street, coming out into the grounds of St Nicholas' Church, he could possibly have used that to conceal himself.
Myster, that's very true. I went down Fish Street last time I was in Goldhanger. MANY of the houses open straight onto the road. It's a moot point about what might be heard late at night with windows open. Halfway down Fish Street is a -newish development- cul de sac which may not have been there 30 years ago. It might have been possible to have accessed it from his back garden in Head Street. From there it's no distance to the public footpath leading down to the sea wall.
His other option would have been to cycle through the churchyard at the end of which there's access to another footpath leading onto the sea wall.
The only cul-de-sac off Fish Street (on the Bourtee Cottage side) that I can find is Thistley Close, near to and opposite the beginning of the Sea Wall footpath. But as you say, in '85 there was possibly a way through there or elsewhere to his back garden, which avoided travelling along Fish Street and Head Street altogether.
Or again as you said, he could have walked/biked along rear of all the houses on Fish Street and come through the churchyard, but this would also mean travelling exposed down Head Street to his cottage.
A possible route via Thistley Close (or similar shortcut) to the back garden of Bourtree Cottage by-passing Fish Street and Head Street altogether.
I'm very impressed, Myster. The cul de sac I'm referring to, and hopefully the one you mean- is before the foot path that you've shown, not the one further down on the right.
If you look along Fish Street, the only cul-de-sac that I can see is Thistley Close which is almost opposite the Sea Wall footpath sign... unless some older houses have been demolished and a new cds built further up Fish Street on the Bourtree Cottage side since the aerial photo was taken in 2009.
That would work very well. Think you've nailed it, Myster.
Either that or my spacial awareness isn't brilliant -OK, it ISN'T brilliant. It isn't working, either. The first time I turned right into Fish Street out of The Chequers car park, I had the feeling that it was diagonally opposite the foot path. The houses we quite obviously newer than the delightful character cottages in Fish Street, but they didn't look BRAND new.
Myster, that's very true. I went down Fish Street last time I was in Goldhanger. MANY of the houses open straight onto the road. It's a moot point about what might be heard late at night with windows open. Halfway down Fish Street is a -newish development- cul de sac which may not have been there 30 years ago. It might have been possible to have accessed it from his back garden in Head Street. From there it's no distance to the public footpath leading down to the sea wall.
His other option would have been to cycle through the churchyard at the end of which there's access to another footpath leading onto the sea wall.
Off topic, but does anyone know what these black-painted objects are at the beginning of Head Street? Those on the left look like a pump winding wheel and a water outlet pipe, but are the two on the right side of the road related to them... such as air vents for some underground well to which the pump is connected.
The last time I went to the Chequers, I recall that my cousin was fascinated by the wheel -I think it was probably the first time he'd been that close to it -which I seem to think he decided it was something to do with water. I know nothing about the other two but the charming cottage they stand beside is now a tea room.................not that it's much help!!!
Thanks, April. I wonder if either of you tried turning it to see if any water came out of the outlet? I think the other two objects could be vents to a well or aquifer deep underground to stop a vacuum developing which would hinder pumping. Only a guess though, they could be something completely different. That central location might have been where everyone in the village came for their water supply at one time before having their own on tap. Not knowing irritated me when I did a Streetview walkthrough from the Sea Wall through Fish Street to the JB's cottage!
Cuz tried. It was very stiff. I'd go along with the village pump. Should be seeing him and his wife shortly. Will enquire about it and the other "things" on your behalf.
More photos of Goldhanger Square and the water pump(s)...
http://www.churchside1.plus.com/Goldhanger-past/Church%20St%20Postcards_files/image033.jpg (http://www.churchside1.plus.com/Goldhanger-past/Church%20St%20Postcards_files/image033.jpg)
http://www.churchside1.plus.com/Goldhanger-past/Church%20St%20Postcards_files/image037.jpg (http://www.churchside1.plus.com/Goldhanger-past/Church%20St%20Postcards_files/image037.jpg)
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/86665447 (http://www.panoramio.com/photo/86665447)
http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/Village-water-pump-restored/story-16042388-detail/story.html (http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/Village-water-pump-restored/story-16042388-detail/story.html)
The two other black objects on the opposite side of the road are ancient manually-operated petrol pumps. Scroll down to near the end of the page...
http://www.churchside1.plus.com/Museum/Museum.htm#Police (http://www.churchside1.plus.com/Museum/Museum.htm#Police)
I can't help it, April... but it's through reading that new book, "Pointless List-making For DUMMIES" by Hugo N.Tufar. 8(0(*
Well -pardon the pun!!!- if cuz and I had bothered to go round to the other side of the pump wheel and seen the legend there, you wouldn't have had the joy of carrying out some nifty detective work. It would have been mean to spoil your fun AND deprive myself of the pleasure of seeing all those pics of old Goldhanger.
Myster, I think Adam is making better use, than you, of the new book!!!!!
Yup, Google is my friend!
Just noticed that no.10 Head Street, the pink-painted manor house directly opposite Bourtree Cottage, used to be the village police station. If it was still functioning in '85, Jem wouldn't have needed to faff about for 20 minutes with a phone book... he could have nipped across the road in the buff and pulled their dingaling.
http://www.churchside1.plus.com/Museum/Museum.htm#Police (http://www.churchside1.plus.com/Museum/Museum.htm#Police)
Strange too how things come back to haunt you! The predecessor to Letraset, a dry-transfer lettering system, was patented by someone who lived in Goldhanger . I used to buy expensive pages of it in different fonts to smarten up design projects at the drawing board in college years ago, before the advent of personal computers made lettering cheap and a cinch.
http://www.churchside1.plus.com/Museum/Museum.htm#Letraset (http://www.churchside1.plus.com/Museum/Museum.htm#Letraset)
Cue for Miss Holly Whiplash... "Back on topic, if you don't mind!!!"
But Myster, isn't this thread entitled "Much Ado About Nothing..............(In Particular)?
Might it be possible to find out when the village police station ceased functioning? He couldn't have been stupid enough to have overlooked a cop shop directly opposite him.............................COULD he???
Did you walk the Sea Wall route, Holly? Which one do you think Jeremy Bamber used... green, red or blue?
We walked up to that concrete structure you see Troods stop at. If I remember rightly we arrived in GH about 12.30pm. We planned to have lunch in the Chequers which we did and after that the weather had changed and was drizzling and looked like heavy rain so we didn't explore the routes.
I don't believe JB took any of the routes to covertly travel to and from WHF to murder his family.
The whole idea of the bike is ludicrous imo. There's simply no way to exit Bourtree Cottage/GH without passing a number of properties and whilst I accept most people are sleeping during the early hours not all are. It was the height of the holiday season. Teenage children off school and uni students home both tend to keep strange hours in the absence of any responsibilities. People leaving for and returning in the early hours from airports. Only one person would need to observe an individual on a sit up and beg bike in such a small community at an odd hour and it would pretty much be game over. It's easy for a person to disguise him/herself in the dark of night not so easy to do with a bike. I can't see any advantages to the bike. It wasn't an off road bike but a ladies sit up and beg type. Easier and faster to run across the fields. The longest route is only some 4 miles.
The bike was forensically analysed for blood and soil and nothing incriminating was found. Just because RWB had a theory about it doesn't make it so.
Out of the few people awake who are watching TV, reading etc. how many are looking out their windows? Unless there is some loud noise even if awake who goes to look out the window?
People will not be bothered by the sound of a bike to go look. Nor would they recognize who is riding a bike in the dark. People will not even go investigate hearing a car pass by. A car honking it's horn or with a strobe light or people talking loudly and other things of that sort will get someone to look out a window.
In the dark even if someone saw a bike all they would know is they saw a bike not be able to give a good description of the rider. The same is true for the driver of a car you can't tell who is inside a vehicle in the dark. Even in the day it can be difficult unless a vehicle is going slowly. You moreso recognize the vehicle than the driver though at night it is hard to do either.
The reality is that Jeremy had little to fear in using his car even let alone a bike. But what Jeremy would choose depends not on reality but Jeremy's perception. His perception before the murders was that someone might hear or see his car so he planned to use a bike which he felt was silent and afforded the best mix of speed and stealth. Whether anything altered that perception by the time he actually followed through no one knows except Jeremy
We walked up to that concrete structure you see Troods stop at. If I remember rightly we arrived in GH about 12.30pm. We planned to have lunch in the Chequers which we did and after that the weather had changed and was drizzling and looked like heavy rain so we didn't explore the routes.
I don't believe JB took any of the routes to covertly travel to and from WHF to murder his family.
The whole idea of the bike is ludicrous imo. There's simply no way to exit Bourtree Cottage/GH without passing a number of properties and whilst I accept most people are sleeping during the early hours not all are. It was the height of the holiday season. Teenage children off school and uni students home both tend to keep strange hours in the absence of any responsibilities. People leaving for and returning in the early hours from airports. Only one person would need to observe an individual on a sit up and beg bike in such a small community at an odd hour and it would pretty much be game over. It's easy for a person to disguise him/herself in the dark of night not so easy to do with a bike. I can't see any advantages to the bike. It wasn't an off road bike but a ladies sit up and beg type. Easier and faster to run across the fields. The longest route is only some 4 miles.
The bike was forensically analysed for blood and soil and nothing incriminating was found. Just because RWB had a theory about it doesn't make it so.
It wasn't just RWB's theory, but JB told JM that he'd use a bike, unless you believe there were clandestine phone calls/meetings between RWB and JM.
If JB used the BLUE Sea Wall route there was nothing to stop him leaving unseen by the long garden at the back of his cottage, across the field down to Thistley Close (if it existed in '85), then finding a way through to the start of the Sea Wall and a long, unlit journey to WHF. Followed by a return trip along the same route.
If he used a car, as scipio thinks, then the only option was the the second-longest GREEN route, but this would also be the quickest knowing his alleged boy-racer tendencies. As he approached the cottage he could have turned the engine off and freewheeled to a halt directly under his front window, to avoid awakening people in 7, 11, and 10 across the road. But would any of those three neighbours have been alerted by an engine starting up when he left earlier on?
I think though that he plumped for the shortest RED route of less than 3 miles, sneaking past Hyde Farm well-hidden to avoid any barking guard dogs. Having grown up a farmer's son, he'd know the pathways to and from neighbouring farms. In my experience they're noted for borrowing tools/machinery, and subcontracting work from each other.
We're talking about a sleepy, sparsely-populated hamlet in 1985 between say midnight and 3am. Next time you visit Goldhanger in early August, have a walk, run or bike ride along the RED route during the night and see if you're spotted. If a car comes by, you can always nip behind a hedge and pretend you're having a p...
It wasn't just RWB's theory, but JB told JM that he'd use a bike, unless you believe there were clandestine phone calls/meetings between RWB and JM.
If JB used the BLUE Sea Wall route there was nothing to stop him leaving unseen by the long garden at the back of his cottage, across the field down to Thistley Close (if it existed in '85), then finding a way through to the start of the Sea Wall and a long, unlit journey to WHF. Followed by a return trip along the same route.
If he used a car, as scipio thinks, then the only option was the the second-longest GREEN route, but this would also be the quickest knowing his alleged boy-racer tendencies. As he approached the cottage he could have turned the engine off and freewheeled to a halt directly under his front window, to avoid awakening people in 7, 11, and 10 across the road. But would any of those three neighbours have been alerted by an engine starting up when he left earlier on?
I think though that he plumped for the shortest RED route of less than 3 miles, sneaking past Hyde Farm well-hidden to avoid any barking guard dogs. Having grown up a farmer's son, he'd know the pathways to and from neighbouring farms. In my experience they're noted for borrowing tools/machinery, and subcontracting work from each other.
We're talking about a sleepy, sparsely-populated hamlet in 1985 between say midnight and 3am. Next time you visit Goldhanger in early August, have a walk, run or bike ride along the RED route during the night and see if you're spotted. If a car comes by, you can always nip behind a hedge and pretend you're having a p...
Have you visited GH? If not I can assure you it's the polar opposite of NJ.
Yes statistically most people are fast asleep during the early hours of the morning but some aren't. People do actually depart and arrive home during the early hours for a whole variety of reasons. People also wake for a variety of reasons eg mothers feeding babies, couples having sex and then going to the loo, elderly men going to the loo with prostate problems. The list is infinite. The night sky is often a source of wonderment and people have a tendency to gaze at it by looking out of windows.
As for using the car your views are at odds with DI Miller:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OlvzCVrmc&feature=youtu.be&t=25m30s
I'm not wasting time going round in circles discussing the bike. It doesn't prove anything. Yes JB could have cycled to and from WHF by bike but there's no evidence he did by way of cycle tracks and/or forensic evidence on the bike. For me personally I would find it easier to run 4 miles across fields than cycle on a sit and beg type bike.
There's actually another possible route -by road- from Bourtree Cottage. If he'd turned left into Church Road at the Chequers, it would have cut 1-2 miles off the journey by going round the back of Goldhanger.. I imagine that more than half the houses in Head Street probably weren't there in the 1980's and those with long drives, protected by electronic gates wouldn't have heard him anyway. This also applies to Church Road, bearing out what you said about it being a sleepy, sparsely-populated hamlet. Back then, it wasn't as desirable an address as it now is.
I think you mean Church Street? and if I'm not mistaken the direction you mention above is on the GREEN road route. All three, GREEN, RED and BLUE converge at (B) the junction of Church Street, Head Street and Fish Street
You are being silly. The sex there is so bad that people in the UK look out the window while having sex?
Do the people there have night vision eyes so they are able to see with clarity who is riding a bike in the dark? I have good eyes but I can't see the face of people riding bikes at night. Only if I know someone's routine will I be able to tell it is them.
How many crimes committed at night have eyewitness who accurately describe the color and make of the motor vehicle used to get away let alone ID the driver? With the exception of people who KNOW the perp and happen to be out and about the very time the perp is leaving or arriving home there will be no witness who can say they saw the perp out and about. When it comes to bikes the odds are nil.
We know for a fact that Jeremy drove to WHF to meet police. His neighbors didn't know he left in the middle of the night they heard nothing. What dos that tell you?
Jeremy's perceptions shaped what he would do and the perceptions he presented to Julie was that the bike would provide the best mix of speed and stealth. Because he expressed this perception that is why many believe he used a bike.
If his neighbors had heard his vehicle sometime overnight they still would not be able to swear to the time because they would have been no reason for them to document it. He could have simply told police it was when he went to meet them. If they insisted they heard what they believed to be his car drive away at 1AM I bet you would say they might have gotten the time wrong or even it could have been a different car that they just assumed was his. Most witnesses make assumptions and are not sure and thus are useless. Knowing this I would have no fear of driving. Jeremy initially was concerned about someone noticing something enough to want to use a bike. Whether he followed through or not only he knows. Only he knows whether his perceptions changed.
I never said people look out the window while having sex. I said they might have sex and then get up to use the loo and glance out a window. You're obviously unfamiliar with the term 'Lie back and think of England' 8(0(*
Did JM claim JB told her his intended mode of transport was the bike? I thought he only ever told JM he arranged for MM to carry out the murders? I don't recall any detail about how MM was supposed to have arrived and departed WHF?
Goldhanger is a sleepy little village with a population of 654 as at 2011. It has recently received an influx of immigrants and now stands at circa 22 million which is obviously putting quite a strain on local infrastructure 8)--))
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldhanger
I never said people look out the window while having sex. I said they might have sex and then get up to use the loo and glance out a window. You're obviously unfamiliar with the term 'Lie back and think of England' 8(0(*
You're absolutely correct, Myster. When you next take a look, can you tell where the street lighting is. I know it was broad daylight when I was there, and I'm aware that they probably wouldn't want anything which looked much more modern than early 20th century, but I don't recall seeing any. They must be very discreet.
Looking briefly at Streetviews taken in 2009, I can't see any street lighting at all on the whole length of either Church Street or Maldon Road to Pages Lane. Only poles for house telephone cables on Church Street, and the odd high-voltage electric cable passing over Maldon Road...
Thanks, Myster. It puts a whole new slant on "creeping about under cover of darkness" doesn't it?
All we need now is for Holly to have a cycling holiday in Goldhanger to see how well she can creep.
All we need now is for Holly to have a cycling holiday in Goldhanger to see how well she can creep.
People just glancing out a window are not going to recognize who is on a bike at night even if they happen to look while someone is biking by.
You are conflating 2 distinct issues.
A) Prior to the murders, the plans Julie said that Jeremy told her about
B) Post murder- the few details about the murders that Jeremy told Julie about.
Post murder is when she said that he told her he had not done it himself but rather hired a hitman. Pre-murder she claimed he said he was going to do it. She said that pre-murder Jeremy told her he planned to use a bike and that he had done a test run to see how long it would take by bike.
Creeping has never been my thing ?>)()<
Bicycles have moving mechanical parts that make noises. In the main legs and feet don't. Of course footwear has the potential to leave footprints and evidence adhering to them by way of blood and soil but this would also apply to bicyle tyres.
Yes I agree anyone observing an individual on a bicycle in the dark of night might not be able to positively identify them but it would amount to quite compelling circumstanial evidence if JB told JM he intended to use a bike to cycle to and from WHF to murder his family and an individual is then seen during the early hours on a bike similar to June's sit up and beg. As I said GH is a sleepy little village, so too the neighbouring areas, so anyone seen cycling about during the early hours on a sit up and beg bike would stand out a mile.
Was it ever confirmed whether or not JB had his own bike? In which case why would he need June's? He certainly had access to one when he was at Greshams whether it was his own or the schools I don't know.
JB claims he may have brought the bike to GH a few days before the murders:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1276
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1278
JM claims JB initially he said he would walk or use the bike:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1096
Then according to JM he was going to use a bike and have a trial run:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1104
Bah! He was into windsurfing he could have part walked/run and used a windsurfer to sail up the river and of course would have looked the part wearing a wetsuit!
Pour les personnes qui peuvent comprendre un peu de français...
http://tueursenserie.wifeo.com/jeremy-bamber-le-massacre-de-lessex.php (http://tueursenserie.wifeo.com/jeremy-bamber-le-massacre-de-lessex.php)
No Vlog from Troods this week. Perhaps due to Easter. Maybe she is having conversations with the bearded man in the sky:
Troods: Please give me strength and wisdom to continue with my weekly Vlogs supporting Jeremy Bamber, the victim of a terrible injustice.
Bearded Man In Sky: Have you sinned?
Troods: No.
Bearded Man In Sky: Are you sure?
Troods: Hmmm...I have been a bit naughty and overindulged my fondness for Jaffa cakes.
Bearded Man In Sky: Very well. You must now have a Jaffa cake fast for 40 days to repent for your gluttony and I will look over this Jeremy Bamber
Troods: But...
Bearded Man In Sky: No buts...
The Sun dated 30th May 2056: "Jeremy Bamber convicted of murdering his family in 1986 died yesterday in his cell at HMP Wakefield from natural causes. He was the longest serving prisoner and protested his innocence until his death. Prison officials have estimated the cost of his lengthy incarceration at £10,623,000. Many long standing supporters led by a prominent member of the Communist Party are expected to attend Bamber's funeral and have vowed to fight on seeking a posthumous pardon. His cousins, Ann Eaton and David Boutflour, both now in their hundreds have said they wish to get on with the rest of their lives in peace..."
Troods: Hell...if only I had been able to kick my Jaffa habit for 40 days 8(8-)) Pat pass us a Jaffa...
If JB didn't go by car, I'm still of the opinion that he cycled the shortest RED route (2.8 miles) - which includes the wide farm track/footpath connecting Pages Lane to Maldon Road. It starts at the back, i.e. north side of WHF (the front door of the farm faces south). He told JM that he would cycle via the "back road", which imo can only mean the RED route.
JM never told Julie anything. What JM sais about the bike and window in her September statements is written in RWB's diary weeks before hand. Her statements are coerced this is irrefutable because they contain multiple contradictory narratives that a truthful statement would not manifest.
(http://s12.postimg.org/6ldt78ex9/mugford_rivlin.jpg)
(http://s10.postimg.org/cv6364cyh/mugforddcadams.jpg)
You don't understand evidence at all. The claims of a lawyer is not evidence. Jeremy's lawyer claiming that everything she said was obtainable from RWB's diary is patently false. There were only select things that were in the family knew about such as the windows being used by the family to enter.
Your claim it is irrefutable that Jeremy told Julie nothing is beyond laughable. You keep drifting more and more into Mike land...
You say "The claims of a lawyer is not evidence"Eh?
Think you may have shot yourself in the foot there @)(++(*
You say "The claims of a lawyer is not evidence"
Think you may have shot yourself in the foot there @)(++(*
Hardly. It is a fact that lawyers making claims in court are not evidence. Only witnesses can proved evidence. Lawyers can get documentary evidence admitted but normally need witnesses even for that because there needs to be some authentication of the documents. Certain documents are self-authenticating under the rules of evidence but many are not.
It is actually unethical for a lawyer to give evidence. If a lawyer is a potential witness in a case because of possessing personal knowledge that is relevant a lawyer is supposed to not handle that case. The reason why there is a problem is because the trier of fact could become confused and not be able to recognize the difference of when they are presenting evidence as as witness from when they are just acting as an advocate and not giving evidence.
What a lawyer says in opening or closing statements is not evidence. Lawyers often say they will prove things in opening statements that they end up not proving and in closing statements claim they proved things they did not. Every defense attorney claims reasonable doubt was established regardless of whether it was or wasn't while every prosecutor claims guilt beyond a reasonable doubt was established regardless of whether it was or wasn't. The fact they made such a claims is not evidence of whether reasonable doubt exists or not. The trier of fact decides what the facts are and does so based on the evidence presented during the trial not what the lawyers claim.
Thus even if we were in court my unsupported claims would have no more weight than the unsupported claims of anyone else. But we are not in court, we are on a level playing field here. The same principles apply here though that apply in court in determining whether someone is making an unsupported claim or proven fact. A fact is proven when reliable evidence establishes something to be true.
You said it is an irrefutable fact that Jeremy told Julie nothing. You failed to support your claim with reliable evidence though. Your main evidence was simply an unsupported allegation made by Jeremy's lawyer. Not only is that allegation unsupported by evidence worse it is clearly wrong. Julie made a host of claims including but not limited to Jeremy saying he thought about starting a fire to kill his family. That was no where to be found in RWB's diary. This is just one example there are plenty of others.
There is no evidence of any communication between RWB and Julie regarding the murders let alone evidence they conspired together. Nor is there any evidence police did anything to try to get Julie to make up claims. Police didn't even believe Julie at first.
If you want to believe there were various conspiracies despite a lack of evidence that is your business but you should make clear they are your personal unsupported opinions as opposed to claiming they are proven facts. That is where Mike always goes wrong. He takes unsupported claims and misrepresents them as proven facts. When you say something is an irrefutable fact you are not holding it out as your opinion but rather fact.
There is an abudence of evidence if one bothers to compile and present it. I will do this later on and put an end to this debate once and for all
Maybe Trudie is having conversations with the man in prison.
Bamber asked Mike to close the Blue forum when he realised it was doing more harm than good.
Eh?
Hello Sika. Scipio has said on the open forum that he is/was a lawyer.Hello Holly. Yes, I am/was well aware of that.
Hello Holly. Yes, I am/was well aware of that.
Seeing as there was no Vlog from the CT this week, I thought you might like to view a couple of better quality videos about Goldhanger, St Peter's Church and the Sea Wall. The first really interesting one includes a walk from rear of the churchyard to the Sea Wall (where TB ended her walk), then back to start of the footpath at the bottom end of Fish Street and a return to the Chequers Inn where the video began. APRIL mentioned earlier that JB might have cut out the more southerly footpath to Fish Street and travelled by this shorter route to and from the churchyard from where it would be just a cock-stride to Bourtree Cottage, whilst avoiding being seen on Fish Street altogether...
Footpath from the rear of St. Peter's Church to the Sea Wall (1>>>3>>>5>>>)...
HEAR, HEAR!... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35932802 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35932802)
There is a small group of people out there who think that Ian Huntley is innocent. And an even smaller group who think that Ian Brady couldn't help himself. Bamber supporters make it up as they go along. They so want him to be innocent, they invent stuff that couldn't possibly happen. And ignore the obvious stuff.
I don't think that I'm the only one to be burnt out and fed up to the max. I'm done with the Bamber thing. Good luck, Holl, and your windsurfing stuff, but you and I both know that he will never see the light of day.
I hope he rots.
He will.
Apart from Mike who met Bamber and has a grudge against the police, I wonder why people 'want' Bamber to be innocent. Which is undoubtedly the case for the remaining supporters on both forums. The incriminating forensic and circumstantial evidence posted on the forums is so overwheming.
At least three of the CT who are not on forums watched the 'Crimes that shook Britain' video and are still a supporters. There is a chance they all made a decision to then just read pro Bamber information, not read the horrible stuff and engage with Bamber. This is very callous, selective and wrong.
Forum members who became supporters after watching CTSB became guilters. This is because the forums don't just post pro Bamber material.
I have done it again posting my reply in the wrong place and incorporating it in the above post. I did leave some line spaces so don't know how it happened.
Very easy to make that mistake, Daisy. I always find your posts most enlightening.
I have done it again posting my reply in the wrong place and incorporating it in the above post. I did leave some line spaces so don't know how it happened.
What were the difficult questions ?@)(++(*. Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey.
What lies did he tell you ?
How did he become abusive ?
I have done it again posting my reply in the wrong place and incorporating it in the above post. I did leave some line spaces so don't know how it happened.Sorted again, Daisy. 8((()*/
Interesting that the CT have not published the response from Essex Police when they have published all other replies.
Blimey, I hope that this doesn't allude to Ermintrood's beautifully crafted and inspirational "vlogs." I, for one, massively enjoy watching a generously endowed lady mistily peering at a mudflat. 8((()*/
Did she not do one this week, btw? I do hope it's because she's busy baking, and not because she's sprawled in front of the Aga in a jaffa cake-induced coma. 8(8-))
Apart from Mike who met Bamber and has a grudge against the police, I wonder why people 'want' Bamber to be innocent. Which is undoubtedly the case for the remaining supporters on both forums. The incriminating forensic and circumstantial evidence posted on the forums is so overwheming.
At least three of the CT who are not on forums watched the 'Crimes that shook Britain' video and are still a supporters. There is a chance they all made a decision to then just read pro Bamber information, not read the horrible stuff and engage with Bamber. This is very callous, selective and wrong.
Forum members who became supporters after watching CTSB became guilters. This is because the forums don't just post pro Bamber material.
Sorted again, Daisy. 8((()*/
Trudi Benjamin only linked to the short BBC report about the Essex Police reply and she responded with...
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter (http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/open-letter)
Why would anyone "want" JB to be innocent? Surely some people believe JB innocent as that is how they have interpreted the information available to them? If someone of Michael Turner's standing believes "passionately" JB is innocent this surely tells you something might not be right?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9716069/Devils-advocate-Michael-Turner-prepares-for-his-toughest-case.html
How do you know who is who on any forum? On the odd occasion I have tried second guessing who's who I have been wrong so I no longer bother.
CTSB vid is just as silly as the others imo. It features Andrew Hunter promoting the idea that SC was alive in the kitchen when the raid team broke in or shortly before. Along with the blood in the silencer potentially being animal/rabbit blood. Both not true imo but this just goes to show how "supporters" can believe JB innocent and yet arrive differently at the same conclusion! The same is true of those in the guilty camp eg some believe NB was not shot in the bedroom and don't believe the silencer evidence and yet still believe JB guilty.
I think some believe that if all these docs etc they claim are being withheld are released it would open a Pandora's box and/or contain the smoking gun proving JB innocent. Personally I don't see it like that. Surely anything that might have assisted the defence and/or other incriminating material will simply have been destroyed? If trial exhibits were destroyed against a court order then it surely follows that docs, photos etc would go the same way?
I don't really understand the PII thing. I believe in criminal trials it's usually used with prosecution witnesses. Maybe JM's criminal activities eg cheque book fraud have to stay on file in the event of her being charged with some unrelated offence in the future?
Whatever is in the files I very much doubt there's anything in there capable of overturning JB's conviction.
'Fession time. When I believed him innocent, logical thought was clouded by emotion which added up to, he can't have done it. I desperately wanted him to be innocent, ergo, he was. End of. I can only liken it to being in lust. When the rose coloureds come off, the truth looks very different.
I think it's absolutely for certain sure that IF there had been anything which MIGHT have proved A) his innocence and B) a conspiracy, it no longer exists.....................but it's always possible that the details of the holiday park office break-in have been kept on file. In the VERY remote possibility of his release, the relatives could have him charged with it?
With respect April you have in recent weeks stated that forensics are not your thing. And more recently NGB had to point out to you that a .22 rifle is small calibre. Imo the most important aspects of the case in determing innocence or guilt are the blood evidence and ballistics.
Well, they're certainly not emotion. Are you suggesting that because neither blood evidence nor ballistics are "my thing" my opinions have no validity? If that's so, you may have to include most of those from both forums and I doubt the fingers of one hand could be used up on those who have done the amount work on both, done by you and Caroline.....................but I'll bet that many, many more haven't a clue what you're talking about.
I think some believe that if all these docs etc they claim are being withheld are released it would open a Pandora's box and/or contain the smoking gun proving JB innocent. Personally I don't see it like that. Surely anything that might have assisted the defence and/or other incriminating material will simply have been destroyed? If trial exhibits were destroyed against a court order then it surely follows that docs, photos etc would go the same way?
I don't really understand the PII thing. I believe in criminal trials it's usually used with prosecution witnesses. Maybe JM's criminal activities eg cheque book fraud have to stay on file in the event of her being charged with some unrelated offence in the future?
Whatever is in the files I very much doubt there's anything in there capable of overturning JB's conviction.
I think some believe that if all these docs etc they claim are being withheld are released it would open a Pandora's box and/or contain the smoking gun proving JB innocent. Personally I don't see it like that. Surely anything that might have assisted the defence and/or other incriminating material will simply have been destroyed? If trial exhibits were destroyed against a court order then it surely follows that docs, photos etc would go the same way?
I don't really understand the PII thing. I believe in criminal trials it's usually used with prosecution witnesses. Maybe JM's criminal activities eg cheque book fraud have to stay on file in the event of her being charged with some unrelated offence in the future?
Whatever is in the files I very much doubt there's anything in there capable of overturning JB's conviction.
No sign of any Vlog, Sea Wall or otherwise from the CT again, so this will have to tide you over until one appears, unless they've completely dried up (puns intended).
If little chanteuse Molly-Mae can bike it along Fish Street and the Sea Wall, then it would have been a breeze for big Jeremae, accompanied by 1985 hits such as Dire Straits' "Money For Nothing" and Duran Duran's "A View To A Kill"... https://vimeo.com/57637248 (https://vimeo.com/57637248)
No vlog and no anoncement why.
Has the man in the Ivory prison made an order to his disciples ?
No sign of any Vlog, Sea Wall or otherwise from the CT again, so this will have to tide you over until one appears, unless they've completely dried up (puns intended).
If little chanteuse Molly-Mae can bike it along Fish Street and the Sea Wall, then it would have been a breeze for big Jeremae, accompanied by 1985 hits such as Dire Straits' "Money For Nothing" and Duran Duran's "A View To A Kill"... https://vimeo.com/57637248 (https://vimeo.com/57637248)
I thought the whole idea of the videos was to attract support? Instead of which they are putting everyone to sleep?They've been floored by David's incredible new forensic evidence! @)(++(*
and Tears for Fear "Everbody Wants To Rule The World". Apparently when DS Davidson visited Bourtree Cottage this was on his stereo. Not sure if vinyl, tape or CD. This was the stereo he feared Crispy might chew the wires of so Crispy had to be dispensed with 8(8-))
They've been floored by David's incredible new forensic evidence! @)(++(*
Come on David... let's put your secret theories to the test on an open questioning forum.
They've been floored by David's incredible new forensic evidence! @)(++(*
Come on David... let's put your secret theories to the test on an open questioning forum.
Troods says, "Jeremy has an alibi" and "I'm convinced that Sheila was alive in that house".She's obviously got a screw loose. I can't listen to anymore than 30 seconds of this woman.
Is she for real, not a shred of evidence for any of this??
She then goes on to justify how Sheila could have done it because it has happened in other cases around the world. Unbelievable!!
She ends with, "The evidence is staring us in the face that this man did not commit this crime". Really Troods, the hard evidence you never really get around to mentioning??
Have you ever had the feeling you're being watched?
She's obviously got a screw loose. I can't listen to anymore than 30 seconds of this woman.
I created a thread on why would Sheila had kept herself alive ? Apart from it being suitable for supporters.
She obviously was determined to commit murder/suicide, so once everyone was killed, she would have shot herself.
Bamber claims Sheila only shot herself after the police entered WHF. Which was hours later.
I created a thread on why would Sheila had kept herself alive ? Apart from it being suitable for supporters.
She obviously was determined to commit murder/suicide, so once everyone was killed, she would have shot herself.
Bamber claims Sheila only shot herself after the police entered WHF. Which was hours later.
Dr Craig, a police surgeon with some 30 years experience at the time of the WHF case, certified the deaths as follows:
38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night. The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted.
If SC shot herself shortly before or after the raid team entered then the signs would be obvious. SC would be in a completely different state than the other victims and she wasn't. I would suggest supporters that persist with claims that SC was alive and seen in the kitchen shortly before the raid team broke in and/or the police shot SC are cranks.
As SC's gunshot wounds were contact this can act as a natural suppressor reducing the sound of gunshot. So it might be possible SC shot herself whilst the police/JB stood outside at circa 4am and the shots went unheard.
"In many cases, the body's absorption of the muzzle blast will act as a suppressor, trapping the propellant gases under the skin and muffling the sound of the shot".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_shot
I only wish someone could reenact the shooting oneself in the neck twice using a .22 rifle if only to reveal that Sheila could never have done it and ended up as she did.I don't think Holly would be prepared to go that far... or would she? &%+((£
I only wish someone could reenact the shooting oneself in the neck twice using a .22 rifle if only to reveal that Sheila could never have done it and ended up as she did.
I only wish someone could reenact the shooting oneself in the neck twice using a .22 rifle if only to reveal that Sheila could never have done it and ended up as she did.
No need, I have something even better. Below is an autopsy image of man who shot himself in the neck four times! with a similar weapon. So no more excuses she cant have shot herself twice
(http://s23.postimg.org/ks2f95evv/multiple_shot_suicide.jpg)
I don't think Holly would be prepared to go that far... or would she? &%+((£
Troods said last week she was struggling to find time to do any housework. Perhaps that was a hint to her fellow campaigners. Hope you used the time wisely Troods and put Kim and Aggie to shame!
Nearly four months worth of Vlogs and only one relating to the forensics which doesn't fill me with confidence as far as donations and forensic testing go. I guess there's nothing to stop anyone commissioning their own tests on JB's behalf &%+((£
We know from Dr V it was physiologically possible hence he was unable to say murder or suicide.
Nemerous experts say she was moved after she died including MacDonnell but John wishes testing were done to confirm things.
Vanezis simply said it is possible she didn't die from the first and could have pulled the second from a medical standpoint.
John's question is about her position. Vanezis did not attempt to figure out if she could have ended up in the position she did. He failed to evaluate the blood evidence and thus to recognize she was dragged flat after she was dead. He left this to the blood experts who also failed to pick up on it until the appeal stage. Only at the appeal stage did the prosecution light bulb come on. The Appeal Court said too bad for them they should have recognized it sooner and raised it at the trial.
If there were a retrial the prosecution could and would raise it. All the Appeal Court ruling meant is that in order for the defense to get a new trial it doesn't have to refute such blood evidence it just has to refute the evidence used at trial. At the appeal stage new evidence cuts both ways. When the defense is using new evidence to appeal and there is new evidence that was discovered post verdict by the prosecution which could not have been discovered at the time of trial using due diligence that corroborates guilt then the defense has to overcome that in addition to everything used at trial. Consider someone trying to appeal a long term rape murder conviction asking for a DNA test and the DNA matches. To successfully appeal they not only must overcome the evidence used at trial but now have the added burden of the DNA to overcome.
Nemerous experts say she was moved after she died including MacDonnell but John wishes testing were done to confirm things.
I was thinking the other day, if I could get a replica of the dress maybe simple experiments could be carried out?
I accept that Dr Vanezis did not see SC in situ but Dr Craig did, police surgeon with 30 years experience, along with numerous police officers with hundreds of years combined experience. If it was so obvious SC could not have murdered her family and taken her own life why wasn't it apparent to any of these individuals? DS Jones was the only early dissenter and according to Dr Vanezis he was unable to offer anything of evidential value.
I was looking for an old post re Chief Sup George Harris who atteneded the scene and observed SC in situ. I've located the post and link which contained Chief Sup George Harris' bio in an Essex Police newspaper. However the bio has now disappeared; it looks like it has been covered over? I'm 100% certain it was there when I posted the link. The whole purpose of posting the link was to show his high profile background. Are we being spied on? And why would someone want to cover over Chief Sup George Harris' bio?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg252540#msg252540
Who are the numerous experts stating SC was moved post death and pre raid team entering? Any subsequent opinion from experts will not have the benefit of observing SC in situ unlike Dr Craig and the numerous police officers.
Who are the blood experts you are referring to above?
Does it have to be a replica? It looks like a simple nightdress and anyone modelling it will not have SC's exact measurements. No I'm not acting as a model while you manipulate me like a rag doll and in any event I'm about 3" shorter than SC.
I forgot to add Chief Sup George Harris' bio was at the bottom of page 3
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg252540#msg252540 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg252540#msg252540)
http://www.essex.police.uk/museum/thelaw/n_8306lw.pdf (http://www.essex.police.uk/museum/thelaw/n_8306lw.pdf)
This has really intrigued me now. Is it just a coincidence it was removed due to some unrelated matter or was it in connection with the above? If the latter why?
Spooky! Just looked at other copies of "The Law" featuring CS George Harris and they're also blank.
Yes it would have to be a replica otherwise you would get crude results. I believe the dress is Vanity Fair Victory Nightie.
I know a few girls that do modelling but I'm not sure if they would be too keen on this. But first thing is first we would have to get hold a replica dress then see what can be done.
I Believe it is this, These are vintage replicas. the dress was available in Purple, Light Blue and Black
(http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/8/7/vanity-fair-victory-violet-women-s-short-sleeve-nylon-gown-2nd-30107-size-xl-20b916475220051bb8e3bf115246373c.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71F%2BHHuDdDL._UX342_.jpg)
But the neckline and hem are different. The neckline on SC's nightdress has a frill of sorts and the hem doesn't have the satin finish.
But the neckline and hem are different. The neckline on SC's nightdress has a frill of sorts and the hem doesn't have the satin finish.
Vanezis simply said it is possible she didn't die from the first and could have pulled the second from a medical standpoint.
John's question is about her position. Vanezis did not attempt to figure out if she could have ended up in the position she did. He failed to evaluate the blood evidence and thus to recognize she was dragged flat after she was dead. He left this to the blood experts who also failed to pick up on it until the appeal stage. Only at the appeal stage did the prosecution light bulb come on. The Appeal Court said too bad for them they should have recognized it sooner and raised it at the trial.
If there were a retrial the prosecution could and would raise it. All the Appeal Court ruling meant is that in order for the defense to get a new trial it doesn't have to refute such blood evidence it just has to refute the evidence used at trial. At the appeal stage new evidence cuts both ways. When the defense is using new evidence to appeal and there is new evidence that was discovered post verdict by the prosecution which could not have been discovered at the time of trial using due diligence that corroborates guilt then the defense has to overcome that in addition to everything used at trial. Consider someone trying to appeal a long term rape murder conviction asking for a DNA test and the DNA matches. To successfully appeal they not only must overcome the evidence used at trial but now have the added burden of the DNA to overcome.
Nemerous experts say she was moved after she died including MacDonnell but John wishes testing were done to confirm things.
The police definitely moved Sheila's body as can be seen in this comparison of photographs at Injustice Anywhere. Unfortunately you can't see the modified photo there without logging in, so I saved it, then uploaded it to a hosting site.
http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=162716&sid=c49300c968bec7d57e25ea427592ad63#p162700 (http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=162716&sid=c49300c968bec7d57e25ea427592ad63#p162700)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv2/fred1755/Crime%20Scene%20photographs/LOvCi%20with%20lines_zpsgvivsldr.jpg)
I Believe it is this, These are vintage replicas. the dress was available in Purple, Light Blue and Black
(http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/8/7/vanity-fair-victory-violet-women-s-short-sleeve-nylon-gown-2nd-30107-size-xl-20b916475220051bb8e3bf115246373c.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71F%2BHHuDdDL._UX342_.jpg)
Nope... that's another myth generated by the CT which needs dismissing once and for all. The only movement of the body, if it was ever moved before being taken to the mortuary, was by Bamber himself. Photos can be deceptive and those above were taken from different positions, the first from towards the foot end of the bed, the second from the head end. The height of the camera above the floor might also have changed with each photo, maybe only slightly but enough to make a difference between the two. Obviously, the arm has been moved but this was admitted to by DI Ron Cook at trial and that was only in order to examine the stains on Sheila Caffell's hands and nightdress...
(http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=168.0;attach=297;image)
Look at the difference a simple reorientation of the first photograph makes to show that no movement took place, noting also how the direction of the chequered upholstery pattern of the bed changes...
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv2/fred1755/Crime%20Scene%20photographs/LOvCi%20with%20lines_zpsgvivsldr.jpg)
Just take the black line on the left which starts from a large blood spot and passes through the socks. In the photograph on the left it crosses Sheila's thighs about six inches below the hem of her night dress. In the photo on the right it crosses at the same level as the hem on her dress. The blood spots have not moved and the socks have not been moved. Only Sheila's body has been moved.
But there's no room for argument on this one. You either see it or you don't.
The pictures you are looking at are very misleading they don't prove anything, I can explain more in detail later why. However we know the body has been moved because the police first on the scene disagree with the crime scene photos, This is evident in the notes of an early investigation
(http://s13.postimg.org/f7yy9t0hz/body_moved1.jpg)
The most probably scenario would be, While a police officer walks through the box room and then proceeds to open the door to the main bedroom, the door pushes the bible towards Shelia and also moves Shelia's body somewhat, The officer not knowing what he has done until he walks past the door.
The pictures you are looking at are very misleading they don't prove anything, I can explain more in detail later why. However we know the body has been moved because the police first on the scene disagree with the crime scene photos, This is evident in the notes of an early investigation
(http://s13.postimg.org/f7yy9t0hz/body_moved1.jpg)
The most probably scenario would be, While a police officer walks through the box room and then proceeds to open the door to the main bedroom, the door pushes the bible towards Shelia and also moves Shelia's body somewhat, The officer not knowing what he has done until he walks past the door.
Contrary to what you may think, it would would take very little effort to move a woman's body of average weight dressed only in a skimpy nightie by a short distance, simply by getting hold of both ankles and pulling. The type of nightie material itself may also help by reducing friction with the carpet.
The point however is this... what difference to Bamber's conviction would the police moving Sheila's body a paltry six inches or so make, say to allow closer examination of the neck wounds because her head was jammed up against the bedside cabinet so they couldn't at first be seen? Absolutely none!
You're not thinking logically, David. The photos show that the body was moved between frames, not before any pictures were taken.
Secondly, it has been moved by about half a foot and that would have taken a good deal of effort. It would not be like just accidentally catching the bible with your foot or something like that.
I have noticed that a number of astute observers agree. Clive Wismayer at Injustice Anywhere and Reader at Bamber forum to name a couple of them. Clive suggests that Bamber's defence, at the 2002 Appeal, missed a great opportunity to prove that the police moved Sheila's body.
http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=162716&sid=c49300c968bec7d57e25ea427592ad63#p162716
Its difficult to explain, but hopefully the illustrations below will help people understand. Basicly both photos have been taken at different angels in different locations, not only that but the camera has been held at a different angle also.
This makes it impossible to compare anything because the photos are out of proportion to one another. A good way to demonstrate this is by looking at the blood stains on the carpet.
What I have done is overlapped the photos, one is inverted to make it easy to see. In photo 1 I have matched three blood stains overlapping them they are surround in yellow a circle, however when I match these blood stains it does not correspond with the rest of blood stains. See image 2 I then match the blood stains below the socks and as a result the other blood stains are not aligned anymore! notice the socks also.
Then finally in image 3 I match a corner of the sock and a small bloodstain to the left of the sock and as expect the rest of the image does not correspond just like 1 and 2. I have tried this with the rifle and her legs also its impossible to align anything. But the blood stains are significant to this because they cannot be moved or altered. Also I have noticed the further away the objects you want to compare the more further apart they are relative to each photo. That explains why I can only match blood drops in close proximity. Does this make sense?
(http://s31.postimg.org/6g2moqjsr/bloodcompare.jpg)
The issue has nothing to do with matching the photographs. There is no point in trying to overlap them.
(http://i.imgur.com/LOvCi.jpg)
It's obvious that the body has been pulled along by about six inches to the right. Sheila's right knee is further to the right of the socks in the photo on the right. You can tell the change by using landmarks which have not changed in both photographs. The socks and the blood spots are in the same position, but the body and the bible have been moved to the right.
Here's what Reader has to say on it. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5797.msg263178.html#msg263178
"Look carefully at the pale area (a small rug apparently) which the socks partially cover. This pale area is identically positioned in the two images in relation to bloodspots on the adjacent carpet. Now consider the position of Sheila's right thigh in relation to that area. In particular, imagine a line drawn along the right edge of the pale area in each image. In the left image, the line would meet Sheila's leg just above the knee. In the right image, the line would meet Sheila's leg several inches further from the knee. It follows that Sheila's right thigh is several inches further to the left in the first image in relation to the carpet. It is impossible for Sheila's right thigh to have moved several inches without the rest of the body having moved as well. This can't be accounted for by the different camera position."
Mike says the police shot Sheila and then stage managed her body on the floor. After a photographer had taken pictures of her on the bed.
I don't know which police did this. Obviously not Jones or Bews, who were both keen for Bamber to be investigated early on. Although both these police were at WHF so must have either been involved in the staging, or knew what was happening.
Everyone apart from a couple of relatives accepted murder/suicide. So I don't know why the police decided to frame Bamber a month later.
The issue has nothing to do with matching the photographs. There is no point in trying to overlap them.
(http://i.imgur.com/LOvCi.jpg)
It's obvious that the body has been pulled along by about six inches to the right. Sheila's right knee is further to the right of the socks in the photo on the right. You can tell the change by using landmarks which have not changed in both photographs. The socks and the blood spots are in the same position, but the body and the bible have been moved to the right.
Here's what Reader has to say on it. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5797.msg263178.html#msg263178 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5797.msg263178.html#msg263178)
"Look carefully at the pale area (a small rug apparently) which the socks partially cover. This pale area is identically positioned in the two images in relation to bloodspots on the adjacent carpet. Now consider the position of Sheila's right thigh in relation to that area. In particular, imagine a line drawn along the right edge of the pale area in each image. In the left image, the line would meet Sheila's leg just above the knee. In the right image, the line would meet Sheila's leg several inches further from the knee. It follows that Sheila's right thigh is several inches further to the left in the first image in relation to the carpet. It is impossible for Sheila's right thigh to have moved several inches without the rest of the body having moved as well. This can't be accounted for by the different camera position."
It's more likely to be a wooden (or even metal) part of the bed structure running along its full length. In the second frame it casts a long shadow which shows that it's raised above the floor and is obviously supporting either a single mattress or a base mattress of two. A piece of the chequered mattress or bedding fabric partially covers it in both photos.
Could it be some sort of drawer mechanism? There looks to be some overlapping on both phtos? In the second image there looks to be some depth with a black insert maybe a handle? It's parallel with the end of SC's nightie?
No, it's just the side part of the bed frame, and some loose bedding/mattress material is covering a small section of it. You can see that it runs the whole length of the bed in the photo below...
Yes it looks like a mattress on a bed stand but the photos are of such poor quality I think it's possible to see just about anything?Not if you've got a hawk-eye like me! 8(0(*
It's more likely to be a wooden (or even metal) part of the bed structure running along its full length. In the second frame it casts a long shadow which shows that it's raised above the floor and is obviously supporting either a single mattress or a base mattress of two. A piece of the chequered mattress or bedding fabric partially covers it in both photos.
Oh!! Myster!!!!! You've just bought back an old memory!!!!!! My parents' bed was very old. I seem to recall a set of rather large, open springs surrounded by a wooden frame which had a metal part in the middle of the long sides which were held together with bolts. I can remember my father using a spanner? -it had a hole in the end which fitted round the bolt- to undo it. There was a feather mattress -or two- over the springs.
I know the type you mean, and assembled with a spanner like the ones below. When my grandmother's bed was disposed of I saved the metal framework, cut two lengths off it, painted them with red oxide and they now reinforce the front wooden driveway gates. Still going strong and rust free!
This is turning into an ancient Barry Bucknell DIY thread... better watch out for Holly's iron fist!!!
The police definitely moved Sheila's body as can be seen in this comparison of photographs at Injustice Anywhere. Unfortunately you can't see the modified photo there without logging in, so I saved it, then uploaded it to a hosting site.
http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=162716&sid=c49300c968bec7d57e25ea427592ad63#p162700
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv2/fred1755/Crime%20Scene%20photographs/LOvCi%20with%20lines_zpsgvivsldr.jpg)
The pictures you are looking at are very misleading they don't prove anything, I can explain more in detail later why. However we know the body has been moved because the police first on the scene disagree with the crime scene photos, This is evident in the notes of an early investigation
(http://s13.postimg.org/f7yy9t0hz/body_moved1.jpg)
The most probably scenario would be, While a police officer walks through the box room and then proceeds to open the door to the main bedroom, the door pushes the bible towards Shelia and also moves Shelia's body somewhat, The officer not knowing what he has done until he walks past the door.
I know the type you mean, and assembled with a spanner like the ones below. When my grandmother's bed was disposed of I saved the metal framework, cut two lengths off it, painted them with red oxide and they now reinforce the front wooden driveway gates. Still going strong and rust free!
This is turning into an ancient Barry Bucknell DIY thread... better watch out for Holly's iron fist!!!
Thank goodness you have those spanners with which to defend yourself.
I trust no one is trying to put a spanner in the works!
Yet another Vlog installment questioning the guilt of murderer Jeremy Bamber...
Blimey, another podger. I hope Troods fed him after the "interview", he's smacking his lips like Billy Bunter opening his tuck box.
@)(++(*
Marty...really, is this the best you can do after years of 'supporting' JB...'In conversation with someone inside the farmhouse'? If such a conversation took place, and I don't for one minute believe it did, why on earth would investigators withhold this information during the early stages of the investigation?
For the 100th time all this says its to query other officers because looking at the photos in 1991 the interviewee was unsure of some things. They did query those other officers and those officers said the photos reflect how the body was.
Contemporaneous (1985) records show that when officers were initially shown the photos it was several weeks after they actually had been at the scene and some expressed a few small concerns but ultimately after talking it out together they decided it was just false memory because of the passage of time and that the photos were accurate of how she was positioned when they found her.
Those who claim this are simply resorting to dishonesty. The very document they rely upon to establish police were speaking with someone in the house says no one inside the house responded. They cite this crap top try to fool uninformed people who are unaware of the fact the document states no one answered and other evidence proves no one answered. they feel this is a strong lie that can fool people and they are right because many people have fallen for it in the past. It only falls apart under scrutiny and many people are too lazy to investigate.Who in their right mind would believe that Police had spoken with someone in the house, and had then gone on to conceal the fact?
This was one of the things raised to me to get me to believe Jeremy may have been set up by police. I didn't know whether this and the other claims were true or not but if true it seemed outrageous conduct and there seemed the possibility of the claims being true. If I acted like some I simply would have taken them as true and said he is innocent. That is what they hope people will do. I investigated and low and behold found out pretty much everything put out by the campaign team was distorted. This has fooled some lazy people in the past and thus they still are going to work it hoping a new crop can be fooled.
Some people want to believe things and they close their eyes to reality like closing their eyes to Al Qaeda taking credit for 9/11 and claiming the US government was responsible. They are receptive to claims because their biases. many anti police people are receptive to any and all allegations of police planting evidence no matter how outlandish and lacking in evidence they might be. The campaign team is busy trying to recruit these sorts. What they hope to accomplish is unclear some just like the attention I think. They like having people listen to them and pay attention to them. They even get idolized for having a personal relationship with a convict by people who lack such. Mike tries to play up his alleged personal connections to the hilt. A good comparison is people who like a celebrity being jealous of his/her personal friends and wishing they had that kind of personal access to the celebrity. In many ways the campaign team is like a fan club. The drama inside a fan club is something fierce.
Who in their right mind would believe that Police had spoken with someone in the house, and had then gone on to conceal the fact?
It immediately sounds like bollocks, and can be proved to be bollocks within about two minutes of looking up the evidence.
I'm amazed that Benjamin hasn't tried to recruit Holly. Or has she?
Who in their right mind would believe that Police had spoken with someone in the house, and had then gone on to conceal the fact?
It immediately sounds like bollocks, and can be proved to be bollocks within about two minutes of looking up the evidence.
I'm amazed that Benjamin hasn't tried to recruit Holly. Or has she?
Who in their right mind would believe that Police had spoken with someone in the house, and had then gone on to conceal the fact?
It immediately sounds like bollocks, and can be proved to be bollocks within about two minutes of looking up the evidence.
I'm amazed that Benjamin hasn't tried to recruit Holly. Or has she?
I failed the entry requirements on the cake baking - my attempt below 8(8-)) They set the bar too high:
That looks just like one of Tesko's Titanic Turds... not that I've been delving too deeply into Blue's sewage system, I hasten to add!
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6813.0 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6813.0)
Yet another Vlog installment questioning the guilt of murderer Jeremy Bamber...
I failed the entry requirements on the cake baking - my attempt below 8(8-)) They set the bar too high:
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/bamber-bake-off
It looks like your whole kitchen burned to achieve that
https://youtu.be/xPwzI1cDMm4
Mike's previous video had him with a strong northern accent. He really is a versatile thespian.
In this video he is saying Sheila shot herself upstairs after the police entered WHF.
But in his American accent video he is saying the police shot her and then put the rifle they saw by the window across her.
It was a mistake of the police to release pictures of the rifle by the window, if this was the rifle they used to put across Sheila. In order to make it look like errrr murder/suicide ? !
Yet another Vlog installment questioning the guilt of murderer Jeremy Bamber...
This just gets worse, is Trudi not embarrassed yet?
Plenty of bile aimed at Julie Mugford... and only sycophantic praise for a despicable five-times murderer without a single word about how fleeced the family business out of £1000, touted nude photos of the sister he killed to the press for £20,000, went on £5000 farm-financed, drug-smuggling jollies to the Continent, and not one jot or tittle about his own proposed £100,000 newspaper deal. No doubt about it, Bamber had form.
I think Theresa May or any other future Home Secretary will have more sense than to listen to all the deluded claptrap and squeals for Bamber's release by his ever dwindling band of manipulated supporters.
Plenty of bile aimed at Julie Mugford... and only sycophantic praise for a despicable five-times murderer without a single word about how fleeced the family business out of £1000, touted nude photos of the sister he killed to the press for £20,000, went on £5000 farm-financed, drug-smuggling jollies to the Continent, and not one jot or tittle about his own proposed £100,000 newspaper deal. No doubt about it, Bamber had form.
I think Theresa May or any other future Home Secretary will have more sense than to listen to all the deluded claptrap and squeals for Bamber's release by his ever dwindling band of manipulated supporters.
That was a good article. It said the COA completely vindicated the police.
I wonder what they think of Mike's Youtube video last year, which said the police stage managed the crime scene.
That was a good article. It said the COA completely vindicated the police.
I wonder what they think of Mike's Youtube video last year, which said the police stage managed the crime scene.
It really is about time Essex Police did something about the defamation.
I assume it's a Vlog free week due to the bank hol?
Maybe they will interview David about his 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.
David's 'forensic evidence breathrough' would probably be more relevant and interesting than the vlogging a dead horse we've had to date 8)-)))
Hopefully David and Caroline will answer my questions on my 'Questions on the alleged forensic evidence breakthrough' thread.
David on Blue has posted Bamber's written response and indirectly said the breakthrough does not show Bamber is innocent.
David's 'forensic evidence breathrough' would probably be more relevant and interesting than the vlogging a dead horse we've had to date 8)-)))
Where can I find this 'Blue' please.?
Where can I find this 'Blue' please.?
Thanks, I only wanted a nose.. 8(0(*
I hope it's possible to like your own posts umpteen times 8((()*/ ... otherwise I'll end up with a negative number. 8(8-))
I've given you a head start! 8((()*/I reciprocated! 8(0(*
I will like all of Scipio's posts if he refrains from making any personal comments likely to cause offence to others ?{)(**. Sadly I doubt Scipio cares whether or not he is liked 8(8-))
You are correct I do not care whether any of my posts get liked. I like being contrarian so I actually like it better when my posts are not liked. %£&)**# &%&£(+Sorry Skip, I had to 'like' that!
You are correct I do not care whether any of my posts get liked. I like being contrarian so I actually like it better when my posts are not liked. %£&)**# &%&£(+
You are correct I do not care whether any of my posts get liked. I like being contrarian so I actually like it better when my posts are not liked. %£&)**# &%&£(+
Aww, go on, admit it, you big softie, you're just throwing out a plea for us all to "like" your posts, aren't you %£&)**#
No, no, no &%&£(+
I actually dislike like functions because it cuts down on debate. People will just like posts without commenting. It is nice to know why people agree and with what portion they agree. It is nice when they also state which parts they disagree with and why. The rationale (the why) is everything. That is also why polls are largely useless. Unless people have to explain why they vote a certain way in a poll it is usually not very helpful.
Attention: There's been an extremely serious outbreak of Smileyitis on this thread... Is Dr. John in the house?
It's either that... or I need to get my eyes tested. 8(8-))
Oh yeah and they sort of run diagonally from side to side &%+((£
Glad you noticed... and I'm also right about the numbers and words on the carpet stain, even though you don't believe me.
I only found out after printing off a b&w laser copy of that photo, which made them stand out. So I went back to the on-screen photo to confirm and also noticed many lines of very faint illegible text in upper case running across the carpet, parallel with the top edge of the bible. The numbers/words on the stain are more prominent and readable because it's darker than other parts.
JB must have been writing with heavy pressure on a piece of paper placed on top of the photo (or photo protected by a transparent plastic pocket) which made the impression, and this was later recorded by the camera lens. It's like one of those puzzling optical illusions... you either see it or you don't!
I don't think I commented on your claims did I? If you say you can see something then I'm sure you can.
Could it be where ink has run from June's notes?
If you mean run onto the stain on the carpet... No.
I'll try to explain simply...
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Pressure from JB's pen.
----------------------------------------------------- Piece of paper with text in upper-case written by JB.
----------------------------------------------------- Crime scene photo (with or without plastic cover) of SC, bible and carpet stain + transferred impression of JB's handwriting
Another photo is taken much later of the CS photo which also records the written impression on it (or on a plastic cover protecting the photo)... the one I lightened below. Surely you can see a number, probably 1998, and the word REMEMBER (or something similar) below it in the carpet stain...
Yes I can now 'see' the numbers but not the word 'remember' although I can 'see' snbbs? Is it some sort of impression from the crocheted cloth or is it just a sort of optical illusion?
Why on earth would JB be faffing around writing notes at SoC?
If you're not careful MT and CT will be onto this claiming all sorts. Eg a coded suicide note from SC which they have deciphered and will be forming the basis for the next CCRC app!
I think that deserves a "Like"... if I get one in return. Can't let John get off with 37+ already!
Not at the SoC!!! If the number is 1998, then it might have been during that period at Full Sutton while he was poring over the photos of his case. The original CS photo or a copy happened to be on the table/desk in his cell, so before he started writing a letter say, he placed his sheet of paper on top, making it easier to write on than on a hard wooden surface. The impression of the letter then carried through onto the photo or the transparent protective cover it was stored in.
I wouldn't be surprised if MT has already fantasised about it, but there's nothing sinister to be found.
I've given Lookout a pep talk on Blue. Her and Mike are the only regular posters who are still supporting Bamber since I joined.
Mike can be forgiven as he just posts to himself on his own threads. But there is no excuse for anyone else.
I did give her the chance to PM me prior to a stance change, but my offer was not taken up.
Mike, Jackie and Trudie are creating Youtube videos and David has sent a 'forensic evidence breakthrough' to Andrew Hunter. Bamber needs his supporters to do more than just post nonsense on forums he wanted closed down.
Oh I see!!!
I've said before I struggle to see anything but the obvious with the photos unless someone holds my hand and points something out.
Are the Teletubbies on today?
and there was me looking forward to some more amusement by chubby chocks.
'Did Jeremy Bamber stage manage the scene by placing the rifle on Sheila ?'
'No sir, the police did'.
Specific people defamed would have to pursue defamation charges, they would have to foot the legal bills themselves and they know Mike can't pay the judgment so they would lose monetarily in the end. One of the first things I always tell my clients to consider is whether a judgment can be satisfied. If not the cost might be not worth it to them. I know people who spent over $100,000 on their own legal fees to get a judgment that ultimately was not able to be satisfied so they were not only out the judgment amount but on top of it the extra $100,000 plus. I consider lawyers who fail to warn about such issues total s..m.
Sometimes the principle might be worth forking out money over but many times it is not worth throwing good money at bad.
How many people actually believe the rantings of ex-con Mike? Perhaps a dozen people who also have their own problems believe and repeat his nonsense claims. Some of his nonsense claims are not defamation per se and those that are typically get little play or attention except among a small body of conspiracy theorists thus causing little if any harm.
I'll leave it to you to sort out the lay out, but originally, what we now call a box room, was the gentleman's dressing room which separated his bedroom from his wife's bedroom. There would have been access TO both bedrooms from the landing area, and access FROM both bedrooms to and from the dressing room. Latterly the dressing room often made a convenient en suite.
That corner looks pretty tight to me especially for police officers wearing flak jackets and carrying firearms.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7216.0;attach=6702 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7216.0;attach=6702)
In this case it was probably called Box Room because they were stuck for a name... Spare Room or Store Room would have done just as well.
Not really...
Sorry Myster.....trying to do too much at the same time ( I'm writing a small treasure hunt at the moment) I guess I thought I'd give you a puzzle as well! @)(++(*
I meant to say.....could the bible be upside down and face down....therefore the blood stain being at the bottom of the page instead of the top?
Country houses called storage rooms for suitcases and furniture boxrooms. It's not some oddity on my part that I spell boxroom together that it how they did it. Years ago I researched what a boxroom is because I never heard the term. It was used in a few European novels I read. Naturally they were used for other things when desired besides luggage and furniture be it storage of clothing, to put a desk and use as a study, use as a child's bedroom or whatever. The distinguishing feature is that the size is smaller than other rooms which is why if a bedroom it would be for a kid usually. The two smallest rooms in WHF are thus called box rooms in keeping with practice of calling small rooms such.
If you use the search in this book function on the mid lefthand side for boxroom you will see a few houses list having them in addition to dressing rooms, linen rooms etc. Some of the houses look pretty neat too bad the insides are not shown.
https://books.google.com/books?id=MdhFAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false (https://books.google.com/books?id=MdhFAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false)
https://books.google.com/books?id=ah0iAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false (https://books.google.com/books?id=ah0iAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false)
From Wiki...
In the United Kingdom, many houses are built to contain a box-room (box room or boxroom) that is easily identifiable, being smaller than the others. The small size of these rooms limits their use, and they tend to be used as a small single bedroom, small child's bedroom, or as a storage room. Other box rooms may house a live-in domestic worker. Traditionally, and often seen in country houses and larger suburban houses up until the 1930s in Britain, the box room was literally for the storage of boxes, trunks, portmanteaux and the like, rather than for bedroom use
Would we still be discussing the WHF case today if Nevill Bamber had one of these special beds equipped with a .410 shotgun installed in '85?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3601720/Cupboards-conceal-bureaus-bullets-Furniture-hides-guns-latest-trend-firearms.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3601720/Cupboards-conceal-bureaus-bullets-Furniture-hides-guns-latest-trend-firearms.html)
Probably as it seems unlikely NB was in bed/room when shooting started.
Wouldn't trust that young woman in the bed with it though... she nearly blew her partner's head off!!!
On a different note.....Having looked at the recent plans of WHF again, I thought there was only one available staircase that wasn't locked..this being the main staircase....am I right? I noticed recently the 3rd staircase that went up as shown in the plan from above the rifle cupboard in NB downstairs office. Was there an opening though to the master bedroom from NB's upstairs office?
I haven't been on here long so please excuse me if this has already been asked.
Yes June did drop numerous blood spots onto the floor but this may well have been from the GSW she sustained to her knee. The bullet exited so the potential for blood to leak onto the floor from this injury was effectively front and back.
I don't know if June was right or left handed? If right handed she may have been prevented from using this arm due to the GSW she sustained to it.
If I put my guilty hat on (yes I have one) I just can't get my head round JB seeking out the bible to stage on SC. SC had a long history of mental illness with in-patient psychiatric care there was no need to over complicate with religious fervour. If JB told officers she was religious I might be able to believe it wearing my guilty hat but he didn't.
Thanks Myster!
So realistically with WHF being all locked and bolted the night the police arrived...yet JB got in... I assume he could also have locked the upstairs bathroom door before leaving as well. Leaving then by staircase 3 down to NB office.
I believe I read that it was bolted on the bathroom side.
On a different note.....Having looked at the recent plans of WHF again, I thought there was only one available staircase that wasn't locked..this being the main staircase....am I right? I noticed recently the 3rd staircase that went up as shown in the plan from above the rifle cupboard in NB downstairs office. Was there an opening though to the master bedroom from NB's upstairs office?
I haven't been on here long so please excuse me if this has already been asked.
Mental illness alone doesn't necessarily translate into suicide or murder let alone both. In those instances where people having delusions do harm someone suicide doesn't naturally follow. Murder suicide for a religious motivation in contrast is something that has happened. It's far superior to suggest such than simply suggest she had delusions whereby she decided to kill everyone and herself.
Grab all 50,000 while you can Caroline... and let's have someone talking sense about the case for a change. 8((()*/
I can't find Caro's post about 50,000?
So that's it then, Vlog over 8(8-))
Troods said she was getting behind with her housework and since then we've hardly heard from her &%+((£
So that's it then, Vlog over 8(8-))
Troods said she was getting behind with her housework and since then we've hardly heard from her &%+((£
Someone offered 50,00 pounds for something connected to this case?
Grab all 50,000 while you can Caroline... and let's have someone talking sense about the case for a change. 8((()*/
If we didn't keep going over things Opal I would forget. I have a memory like a sieve!
I was wondering about that end of the landing and how accessible it was from the bedrooms? Did the upstairs office have a phone in it? I don't think it did. If June walked round NB's side of the bed to use the phone and it appears was then heading out the main door was she trying to get to another phone?
50,000 documents which Tesko wants to put into capable hands because he's going to kick the bucket very soon... or so he says!!!
8)><(
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7638.msg362363.html#msg362363 (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7638.msg362363.html#msg362363)
If we didn't keep going over things Opal I would forget. I have a memory like a sieve!
I was wondering about that end of the landing and how accessible it was from the bedrooms? Did the upstairs office have a phone in it? I don't think it did. If June walked round NB's side of the bed to use the phone and it appears was then heading out the main door was she trying to get to another phone?
I hope he leaves me his elk! 8(*(
Mmmm... So there must be a moose loose aboot his hoose! &%+((£
The Grim Reaper is sharpening his scythe on blue and Tesko's looking for a suitable donor for all the documents in his possession. It's only about 100 miles between Dur... ham and Barnsley, so if Caroline sets off in her Reliant Robin to pick 'em up, should only take her a couple of hours at the most.
I hope she hasn't burst. 8(8-))
Found some information Holly on the phones in WHF in CAL book....
There were 3 telephones in the farmhouse on the night of the shootings. A cordless 'Envoy' having been removed by Douglas Pike on 5th August with no replacement being left.
1) In Kitchen..having been removed from Master Bedroom
2) Fawn 'Statesman' Found sequestered among the magazines in kitchen. JB said it wasn't working but Barbara Wilson checked it out and it was in working order.
3) The blue 'Sceptre 100' remained in its usual spot in the upstairs office.
Notes and References.
Michael Ainsley states that the 'Sceptre 100' was connected in the office and in working order on the morning of the 7th August 1985 when it was used by the firearms team 'who were unable to use the kitchen telephone for obvious reasons' Michael Ainsley 'Report'.
Good find. Thanks Opal. We know June walked round the bed, possibly intending to use the phone, so it is possible she was attempting to get to the phone in the upstairs office. Amazing she was able to do what she did, mentally and physically, having just sustained 6 gunshots at the hand of one of her adopted children.
There is no evidence to suggest she tried to go to the bathroom. It would be faster to simply go downstairs to the kitchen than to go to the bathroom and unbolt the door to try to get into the store room to pass through it to finally get to the office. They did not use the link between the bath and storeroom, they would keep it locked. They didn't leave it open so that someone in the upstairs office could use the 2nd floor bath or toilet. Someone in the upstairs office who wanted to use the toilet would use the one on the ground floor.
They essentially treated the upstairs office and storeroom as separate from the rest of the upstairs which was used only for sleeping quarters. That certainly offered more privacy to them than it would if people could pass freely through the store room to the sleeping quarters.
There is no evidence to suggest she tried to go to the bathroom. It would be faster to simply go downstairs to the kitchen than to go to the bathroom and unbolt the door to try to get into the store room to pass through it to finally get to the office. They did not use the link between the bath and storeroom, they would keep it locked. They didn't leave it open so that someone in the upstairs office could use the 2nd floor bath or toilet. Someone in the upstairs office who wanted to use the toilet would use the one on the ground floor.
They essentially treated the upstairs office and storeroom as separate from the rest of the upstairs which was used only for sleeping quarters. That certainly offered more privacy to them than it would if people could pass freely through the store room to the sleeping quarters.
I'm just trying to figure out what June was doing in the bedroom in terms of walking round the bed and then ending up by the main door. It might be she was just wondering aimlessly completely lost, mentally and physically. Or it might be she still had the presence of mind to try and take some practical action by seeking out the telephone normally in the main bedroom. When she realised this was missing she may have been heading down the hall to the upstairs phone.
I've often wondered what the arrangements were in terms of accommodating BW. I would not want people traipsing through my home to get to a home office. It seems the two were separated but if June was able to push a bolt over her side then potentially she had access to an upstairs phone.
If she was able to do the above she must have been aware NB and the perp were downstairs.
We will never know why she walked to Nevill's side of the bed. There are multiple possibilities including:
1) she went after the attacker who was struggling with her husband
2) she went to try to check her husband's injuries after the killer departed to go reload
3) she ran to her husband to be protected after the killer departed
4) after the killer and Nevill departed she went to seek out the phone but found it missing so turned around to go out the door but was too severely injured to make it
5) was in a daze and walking around the room incoherently before collapsing
So it could be something as inconsequential as just being disoriented, seeking a phone to call 999 or something more complex like the parents trying to fight Jeremy.
Jeremy may not even know why she walked around the bed he would only know if she did it while he was present and he would only be present if she tried to confront him because if he was present she would have to go through him to walk to the other side. The only reason to approach him would be to confront him. She did have a black eye so it is possible she tried to confront him and he punched her. While many assume Nevill somehow broke past him and fled and then he pursued Nevill, it is quite possible and in my view even more likely that Jeremy fled with Nevill pursing him. He could have simply decided to flee to go reload as soon as the gun was empty but it is also possible one or both parents tried to disarm him there and then and he fled to go reload because of such. I don't know what good it does wondering since we will never know the answer no matter how much we wonder. I spend my time trying to figure out things we have the ability to actually figure out.
You could be right but, where does it say that the upstairs bathroom was locked at all times? JB could have easily bolted the bathroom door from the inside before leaving via the store room/office. It makes more sense that should the twins or the family need the loo during the night the upstairs bathroom was available...why else have an upstairs bathroom? The 'bolt' being on the bathroom side, not the landing side.This is probably why there was a bolt on the door...for privacy whilst in there. I'm pretty sure I'm correct with the location of the bolt...ie. inside bathroom door. The police managed to get through the upstairs office into a store room.
It's good to wonder!
It's good to wonder!
You know my views on the bedroom and I don't propose to go over them again.
As far as I can see there's no pathological evidence June sustained a black eye from any hand-to-hand combat? I think it is probably bruising from gunshot? Probably the gunshot wound she sustained between the eyes. Bruising isn't just contained to the immediate area of injury it spreads.
I do a lot of wondering about you! @)(++(* ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyrQqmc5UT8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyrQqmc5UT8)
We don't know for sure whether she had the black eye before the murders but it is more likely it is from the murders than predated the murders.
The gunshot wound between her eyes did not fracture the bone above her eye socket that is what causes a black eye from a GSW that is higher than the eyes.
It seems unlikely the black eye predated the murders. Surely June would have mentioned to PB in the 10pm ish phone call. Especially when the pair were arranging to meet up in the next day or so.
When I had all 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed I had severe bruising all over my upper chest. It was far worse on my chest than round my jaw. Bruising isn't just restricted to the trauma site it spreads out.
Bullets can ricochet around internally and the hollow point design look particularly nasty.
Or maybe June caught herself on the door when she fell which caused the bruising.
Twinkling with a star (whoever he is &%+((£ ) now that the vlogs have dried up...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BFwn3kZzSUagLzNpdywL4H4dirB224AB7R0F2w0/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/BFwn3kZzSUagLzNpdywL4H4dirB224AB7R0F2w0/)
Yes, I knew that... was just being flippant. But not a patch on the earthy original, Colm Wilkinson...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsYnhVITf9E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsYnhVITf9E)
I didn't, so I wouldn't have realised you were bring flippant despite the name in lights in the background!
Is Troods one of these people that thinks it's cool to have a pic with whatever list celebs? The above comes after actress Susan Penhaligon.
I doubt any celeb with an agent will get involved with a convicted child killer despite Troods attempts to convert them. Even after viewing the compelling Vlogs!
Of course if/when JB's conviction is quashed the whole world and his dog will be tripping over him.
I can't think of any celeb involved in any 'cause' that isn't pretty much universally accepted as a good cause eg Angelina Jollie. Can anyone think of a celeb, from any list A - Z, involved in a highly controversial cause?
Twinkling with a star (whoever he is &%+((£ ) now that the vlogs have dried up...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BFwn3kZzSUagLzNpdywL4H4dirB224AB7R0F2w0/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/BFwn3kZzSUagLzNpdywL4H4dirB224AB7R0F2w0/)
Twinkling? She looks like she's had an accident!Of the poop-poop-pee-doop kind? &%+((£
Of the poop-poop-pee-doop kind? &%+((£
From Wiki...
In the United Kingdom, many houses are built to contain a box-room (box room or boxroom) that is easily identifiable, being smaller than the others. The small size of these rooms limits their use, and they tend to be used as a small single bedroom, small child's bedroom, or as a storage room. Other box rooms may house a live-in domestic worker. Traditionally, and often seen in country houses and larger suburban houses up until the 1930s in Britain, the box room was literally for the storage of boxes, trunks, portmanteaux and the like, rather than for bedroom use
She KNOWS Jeremy Bamber is innocent... in the same way she KNOWS that Julie Smerchanski is divorced and Barbara Wilson has passed on...
https://www.the-newshub.com/general/jeremy-bamber-a-thirty-year-injustice83 (https://www.the-newshub.com/general/jeremy-bamber-a-thirty-year-injustice83)
No point in starting another thread on this subject, so I thought I'd post it here.
There are no videos on YouTube showing the loading and operation of an Anschutz 525 rifle in detail, but this one about a French-made Gevarm .22 is the nearest I could find, and being fairly similar to the former is quite informative. The main difference is with the type of firing pin, which in the Anschutz causes the primer to ignite by a single strike to a point on the edge of the brass casing's flange, whereas with a Gevarm the pin hits the casing's base across the whole of its diameter. Also, the Gevarm doesn't have a deflector plate to force the ejected casing forward...
Has Trudi given up already?
Seems the Bamber Innocence Train has hit the buffers, so she and Josh Grab-one ran off together with hubby in hot pursuit.?{)(** 8**8:/: ____________________________________________________ 8(8-))
He'd miss her AGA-baked cakes, so I doubt it. 8)><(
Perhaps hubby was happy to see her go?
He'd miss her AGA-baked cakes, so I doubt it. 8)><(
Another pen to add to your collection, scipio! 8((()*/ ... or should that be %56&
I'm sure David and Holly will be ordering one.
£2.50 plus for a 10p biro!!!?... that's daylight robbery!
"Let's see Jeremy get his freedom this year"!!!?.. whooosh, that pig's just flown past my window again.
Trudi's latest Vlog which lasts about two minutes followed by a video about other cases.
Note how she is now attempting to align the Bamber case with GENUINE miscarriage of justice cases!
Another pen to add to your collection, scipio! 8((()*/ ... or should that be %56&
I'm sure David and Holly will be ordering one.
Those pens look pretty cheap I bet they will break in short order.
I only collect advertising pens of historical companies (US Steel, Standard Oil Lockheed, Boeing, Northrop) or military. I have seen plenty of political campaign pens and memo pads but never a legal campaign- how absurd! I am surprised they didn't make something more high profile like bumper stickers or hats.
I can't speak for David but I am not a supporter of the 'official' campaign and would not want to be associated with it in any shape or form. No more than I would want to be associated with Mike's mad incoherent foul-mouthed tirades. I think the CT and Mike are completely wrong in their claims about the case and totally misguided in the way they go about supporting JB.
I think David and I pretty much sing from the same hymn sheet on the case and have our own ways of supporting JB on and off the forum. Lone wolves ?>)()< ?>)()<
I don't need to part of a CT no more than the likes of Charlotte Kiszko were in fighting an injustice on behalf of her son.
Something like this is more fitting and would have brought the cash rolling in...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/321994592187?lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=9046523&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=pla-131843279106&adtype=pla&crdt=0 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/321994592187?lpid=122&chn=ps&googleloc=9046523&poi=&campaignid=207297426&device=c&adgroupid=13585920426&rlsatarget=pla-131843279106&adtype=pla&crdt=0)
If my "Forensic Breakthrough" proves JB innocent how much would he get?
I hope he hasn't forgot about this
Jeremy Bamber offers £1 million pound reward to anyone with fresh evidence that could prove him innocent
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-152402/Killer-Bamber-offers-reward-proof-innocence.html)
Or this wishfull thinking? @)(++(*
If my "Forensic Breakthrough" proves JB innocent how much would he get?
I hope he hasn't forgot about this
Jeremy Bamber offers £1 million pound reward to anyone with fresh evidence that could prove him innocent
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-152402/Killer-Bamber-offers-reward-proof-innocence.html)
Or this wishfull thinking? @)(++(*
A resurrection is the only thing which could ever clear him now.
He would need cops/lab workers to come forward with a credible claim they doctored the moderator and/or Julie to come forward saying she made up her claims.
While either is highly unlikely a supporter can hold out more hope of that than a victim's resurrection.
In artwork and film that hat looks much less laughable than in person. Granted many incarnations are cheap junk but even in a twill or the like it looks rather ridiculous in person. That hat with Jeremy campaign patch sewn to it would cause much laughter.
The Official Jeremy Bamber campaign pipe might catch on though.
Holly looks quite fetching in the CT's new promotional rig-out...
If my "Forensic Breakthrough" proves JB innocent how much would he get?
I hope he hasn't forgot about this
Jeremy Bamber offers £1 million pound reward to anyone with fresh evidence that could prove him innocent
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-152402/Killer-Bamber-offers-reward-proof-innocence.html)
Or this wishfull thinking? @)(++(*
Trudi's latest Vlog which lasts about two minutes followed by a video about other cases.
Note how she is now attempting to align the Bamber case with GENUINE miscarriage of justice cases!
Oh goody, a Jeremy Bamber pen! That will go nicely with my Saddam Hussein giant slipper, Myra Hindley string dispenser, Ted Bundy novelty fridge magnet and Idi Amin frilly toilet roll cover.
Thanks, Troods! 8((()*/
David advances many of Mike's claims and interacts with other supporters I don't see him as a lone wolf. Indeed he personally interacts with other supporters to advance his agenda.
An example of an argument of Mike's that David advances is the allegation that exhibit numbers SBJ/1, DB/1 and DRB/1 each pertained to a different moderator and eventually police decided to conceal that 3 moderators were collected and made up the narrative that one moderator was collected and that its exhibit number changed. This argument is made by the campaign team as well as Mike and was adopted by David. It was not made by Jeremy's lawyers ever though and I never saw you make it either.
Jeremy's lawyers recognized that the notion anyone doctored multiple moderators and police ultimately settled on one is silly. It is also silly to assert they could have retained the designation DB/1 for the moderator as well as for an exhibit from David Bird. Upon learning that they gave multiple exhibits the same designation they would have to change Bird's exhibits or Boutflour's exhibits. They could not use the same designations for both. So at minimum one must face that a change had to occur from DB/1 to something else.
Aside from the claims being silly the evidence is quite clear. Objective evidence illustrates how it did change. Until the change occurred every document referring to the moderator referred to it as SBJ/1. There are no documents created the same time that contain both exhibits.
It was not the only item that changed. Three other exhibits also changed to the DB prefix at the same time for the same reason (The telescopic site, .22LR ammunition and shotgun ammo). All 4 changed to the DRB prefix the same time also after it was discovered that David Bird already had logged 100 plus exhibits under that prefix.
There is thus zero support for making the allegation and yet the CT, Mike and David all do so.
Lone Wolf is not fitting for him in my opinion.
There isn't much by the way of substance in these video logs, I thought we were promised some real evidence of Bamber's innocence?
Trudi's vlogs make Bamber seem more guilty. A typical example was the 'bike ride' vlog.
Supporters on the Blue forum used to act as if Bamber had to cycle through a swamp. Which was never believable otherwise the prosecution would not have suggested he did this. There were also three routes and RB said it was an easy journey which passed no dwellings.
Trudi was then filmed on pathways that anyone could cycle on. One pathway even had a bench. Maybe Bamber had a rest half way back.
I thought I saw a red and white chequered cloth poking out of tote bag. Probably had a picnic after filming.
Perhaps she can't go too long between pasties. 8(8-))
And I bet they had lunch at The Chequers before the 100 metre stroll along the sea wall to the bench. Then suddenly whoosh the checked red and white cloth is pulled from Troods Tote and all manner of goodies are displayed for cameraman/husband Pat 'n' Trood to feast on %£&)**#
I wouldn't mind a bit o that myself, maybe one of these days. I might even get a ride on one of Jackie's nags at Brentwood Stables. Maybe we could organise a group outing? @)(++(*
@)(++(*
I think you might have had a lucky escape with your ban John, she seemed pretty keen for you to take her out to lunch followed by a ride on one of her two horses 8(0(*
Next week's vlog.....Why can't I like a post more than once?
Ermintrood Thunderthighs shares the heartwarming story of the constipated mathematician who worked it out with a Jeremy Bamber pen.
Why can't I like a post more than once?
I love you Shona, you crack me up! 8@??)(
I love you much more.
Are we still doing the like thing? I can't find how to do it.
Congratulations to Jeremy Bamber... you've just managed to boost the BREXIT vote by 10 points. One piece of advice from you and people do the exact opposite!
Too late for me though, my postal vote is already in... or I should more accurately say, OUT. I'm heartily sick of this money-grabbing, freeloader-kowtowing, back-slapping, shiny-bummed bureaucrats' club for the Kinnocks and Rompuy-pumpies of this world! Time to boot out Cameron and Co. and make room for leaders with guts who actually care about and stick up for the people of this country... and no, I don't mean Corbyn.
John is going to love this, over to you... http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/)
ETA: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11266362/Herman-Van-Rompuy-will-be-paid-over-500000-by-the-EU-to-do-nothing.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11266362/Herman-Van-Rompuy-will-be-paid-over-500000-by-the-EU-to-do-nothing.html)
Is it any wonder that the UK has the tiniest flag at the bottom, while Belgium and Germany occupy dominant positions at thetoptrough?...
What's the story with Anji Greaves ?
Was she Bamber's girlfriend before Julie ? Bamber was with Julie prior to and after the massacre. He went abroad directly after they split and just before his arrest, so couldn't have got back with Greaves.
If Anji Greaves was his girlfriend from years ago, what was she doing writing to him in prison, pre conviction ? Trying to jump on the gravy train if Bamber got acquitted I suspect. She soon disappeared after the verdict.
There isn't much by the way of substance in these video logs, I thought we were promised some real evidence of Bamber's innocence?here here well said 8@??)(
Someone should explain to Trudi the meaning of the word corrupt since she obviously doesn't understand what it means. And while they are at it, possibly remind her of defamation Law in England.
I've been wondering about the Dog 'Crispy'..... In JB's September 10th - 12th 1985 statement page 51,52 he says when asked if SC could have shot herself twice ..... " the gun could have been triggered again perhaps by the dog". Or words to this effect. JB was then asked how he knew the dog was upstairs in the Main Bedroom....JB replied that the PC told him. ..did the PC say this though? The thing is JM also mentions the dog in her Diary saying 'Pest Dog'....why? JM was also worried about giving the right replies in her first statement....JB told her if she stuck to the truth..( as near as possible) then she'd be all right, as that's why he had only told her certain things. JB actually says he doesn't agree that SC couldn't have shot herself twice, but that the PC was probably right!good point opal,also i think the police asked him about handling that bible found near sheila.he said he may have picked it up to threaten the dog,they then asked when the incident happened,i cant remember the answer jb gave,bottom line is maybe the dog was hindering jb's work that morning and he threw the bible at it,just a thought 8(0(*
The dog could be heard barking by the telephonist when they checked the phone line.
What I'm getting at is what could have happened that night that made JB mention the dog when talking of Sheila's gun shot wounds?
Rotti....I thought JB could have hit the dog with the bible, which could put a different view on the blood stains on the bible... ie....where did the bible land if thrown at the dog?yes opal i see your point
Congratulations to Jeremy Bamber... you've just managed to boost the BREXIT vote by 10 points. One piece of advice from you and people do the exact opposite!
Too late for me though, my postal vote is already in... or I should more accurately say, OUT. I'm heartily sick of this money-grabbing, freeloader-kowtowing, back-slapping, shiny-bummed bureaucrats' club for the Kinnocks and Rompuy-pumpies of this world! Time to boot out Cameron and Co. and make room for leaders with guts who actually care about and stick up for the people of this country... and no, I don't mean Corbyn.
John is going to love this, over to you... http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/)
ETA: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11266362/Herman-Van-Rompuy-will-be-paid-over-500000-by-the-EU-to-do-nothing.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11266362/Herman-Van-Rompuy-will-be-paid-over-500000-by-the-EU-to-do-nothing.html)
Is it any wonder that the UK has the tiniest flag at the bottom, while Belgium and Germany occupy dominant positions at thetoptrough?...
Thanx Myster, only just got round to reading the Bamber blog. As it was all blurb I managed both posts in about 20 seconds. The punch line though was the last paragraph in which Bamber reveals his fear for lifers if the UK exits the EU, no doubt he thinks whole life tariffs might be abolished at some stage.
What happened to the latest video blog we were promised weeks ago?
It's all gone quiet on the Bamber Front these days, although Holly thinks there are exciting times ahead... What IS she like!!?
The batteries must have run down in the CT's camcorder, so we'll have to make do with the odd occasional revelation, such as Bamber supporter Flo Krause's exit from the Bar...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/29/flo-kraus-prison-barrister-legal-aid-cuts-access-to-justice (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/29/flo-kraus-prison-barrister-legal-aid-cuts-access-to-justice)
"I would also like to highlight another prominent case, that of Jeremy Bamber. The Bamber murders took place in my constituency many years ago, causing immense distress at the time, as they still do, to the family of the victims of that terrible crime. It pains me to mention that there has been some bad history in how the family have been treated by the Ministry of Justice. Regrettably, two years ago, it granted Jeremy Bamber access to the media to protest his innocence, despite a number of unsuccessful applications to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. No consideration was given to the victims’ family. In the small village in my constituency where the murders took place, unfortunately, every time the gentleman’s name is mentioned in the media, the world’s media descend and cause an awful amount of grief for the family. I hope that the Minister agrees that such cases are simply not acceptable. It is awful for victims to be treated in that way. They are not kept informed of what is happening, so the first that they hear about it is when it lands in the media. The distress that that causes is appalling".It's not very well written. It's not clear who she is referring to as a gentleman: a relative or JB? Gentleman doesn't seem an appropriate term for JB given his current legal status?
Quite right to. Ditto JM in this case.
It's not very well written. It's not clear who she is referring to as a gentleman: a relative or JB? Gentleman doesn't seem an appropriate term for JB given his current legal status?
The relatives can't have their cake and eat it. They court the media by contributing to various tv docu/dramas, books and interviews with journalists. JM has kept a dignified silence post initial aftermath of the trial.
JB is allowed legally to protest his innocence from behind bars. IMO that's how it should be where a convict claims to be a MoJ. At the end of the day 99% of what JB does, or others do on his behalf, are the most spectacular own goals.
She is clearly talking about Jeremy Bamaber.
Or possibly Jeremy Bambear... Timothy Treadwell's nemesis in Holly's avatar pic?
She is clearly talking about Jeremy Bamaber.
Well it's not clear to me and given PP thinks JB is guilty as charged referring to him as a gentleman doesn't make sense to me.The fact that it's clear to everyone except you, does not surprise me! ?{)(**
The fact that it's clear to everyone except you, does not surprise me! ?{)(**
'Gentleman' is a word used by many, most noticeably members of parliament, who give no thought to its literal meaning. But then you're perfectly aware of this, of course. 8(0(*
She was on the right side of the Referendum too, yay!. I thought only old fogeys voted for Brexit?
https://twitter.com/patel4witham (https://twitter.com/patel4witham)
JB isn't a parliamentary colleague of PP's. As far as she is concerned he's guilty as charged and therefore by default a mass murderer/child killer. She's on record as being a strong proponent of the death penalty for those convicted of the most serious crimes so why she would refer to JB as a 'gentleman' is anyone's guess!
Well, I doubt it would have gone down well if she had referred to him as a murdering SOB. That is simply the word she chose.
If PP felt unable to refer to JB by name and wanted to use a general term then I think there are many options between "gentleman" and "murdering SOB" eg prisoner, convict, lifer. It's a moot point but perhaps tells us that we've scraped the bottom of the barrel in discussing the case.she's obviously not pretty when it comes to her wording
I can't recall any other MP referring to a notorious murderer on a life tariff as a "gentleman".
The Case of the Disappearing Grey Hair &%+((£ ...interesting myster.what do you make of it
... and what has this got to do with the murders? &%+((£ ...
... and what has this got to do with the murders? &%+((£ ...
interesting myster.what do you make of it
It never ceases to amaze how some people make decisions as to guilt or innocence on the flimsiest of personal knowledge when the police have already established a case based on ALL THE EVIDENCE.
Although I believe that the blood spot and ingrained paint were genuine, evidence of the hair is more of a head scratcher. Obviously the simplest explanation is that it got caught in the burred scratch on the moderator when/if Nevill was pistol-whipped in the face with the rifle barrel during the kitchen struggle. Possibly a three-quarter inch long, grey eyebrow hair. Then again, as David Boutflour didn't appear to see or mention it at WHF but Peter Eaton later did at Oak Farm, the hair from someone or something else might have become attached whilst in the car boot on the journey between farms, or during the couple of days before Stan Jones arrived to pick the moderator up. As DB noted that the moderator was sticky, perhaps the hair adhered tightly to it unseen at first and was only noticed as it became looser through handling.
I agree there's nothing of evidential value in the video.
It now seems apparent from the Chilcot report that Tony Blair made the decision to take the country to war based on flawed evidence. The fact EP put together a case against JB and secured a conviction means diddly squat to me.
Although I believe that the blood spot and ingrained paint were genuine, evidence of the hair is more of a head scratcher. Obviously the simplest explanation is that it got caught in the burred scratch on the moderator when/if Nevill was pistol-whipped in the face with the rifle barrel during the kitchen struggle. Possibly a three-quarter inch long, grey eyebrow hair. Then again, as David Boutflour didn't appear to see or mention it at WHF but Peter Eaton later did at Oak Farm, the hair from someone or something else might have become attached whilst in the car boot on the journey between farms, or during the couple of days before Stan Jones arrived to pick the moderator up. As DB noted that the moderator was sticky, perhaps the hair adhered tightly to it unseen at first and was only noticed as it became looser through handling.
I think this is more likely.i agree 8((()*/
Same old, same old...
http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/local/14616124.Emmerdale_actress_narrates_video_released_to_mark_30_year_anniversary_of_Jeremy_Bamber_mass_murder_sentence/ (http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/local/14616124.Emmerdale_actress_narrates_video_released_to_mark_30_year_anniversary_of_Jeremy_Bamber_mass_murder_sentence/)
SP on JB...
Thanks Myster. Puglove will not be happy 8(8-))
The CT seem to home in on aspects of the case that as I far as I can see offer little, and that's probably being optimistic, hope of an appeal eg lie detector test, the claimed phone call from NB, and 'movement' at the window.
I wish I knew who to believe about docs still held under PII. CAL seemed to imply ? that all docs had been released. &%+((£
Thanks Myster. Puglove will not be happy 8(8-))
The CT seem to home in on aspects of the case that as I far as I can see offer little, and that's probably being optimistic, hope of an appeal eg lie detector test, the claimed phone call from NB, and 'movement' at the window.
I wish I knew who to believe about docs still held under PII. CAL seemed to imply ? that all docs had been released. &%+((£
David, can I just say....totally agree pugs.as always witterly put.can trudi be trusted to share those cup cakes with jb.she looks as if she would scoff the lot.jb wont be getting anymore appeals ,public is sick of him and not interested anymore.as for davids breakthrough iam sure jb is more eager than us to have it bought to the public's attention.but the poor sod has to wait for david n ct to release the breakthrough.there is more chance of boris johnson becoming pope than jb getting another appeal @)(++(*
a) whatever your little secret is, Bamber is a million miles away from another appeal.
b) Trusting ngb with your information is like being scared of wasps and sticking your head into a beehive.
&%&£(+
totally agree pugs.as always witterly put.can trudi be trusted to share those cup cakes with jb.she looks as if she would scoff the lot.jb wont be getting anymore appeals ,public is sick of him and not interested anymore.as for davids breakthrough iam sure jb is more eager than us to have it bought to the public's attention.but the poor sod has to wait for david n ct to release the breakthrough.there is more chance of boris johnson becoming pope than jb getting another appeal @)(++(*
yes april he has got a talent for mesmerizing people.shame he never tryed to get an equity card.he would have made an excellent actor
There was another article in a local rag last week. Half a page, somewhere near the middle of the paper, reporting on what Susan Penhaligon(?) and his cell mate think.......................Oh, and a comment from EP in which they state that there was nothing unsafe about his conviction.
yes april he has got a talent for mesmerizing people.shame he never tryed to get an equity card.he would have made an excellent actor
yes.theres a member who used to write to him ,but not anymore.that member said that jb drops himself in it quite alot.which i found really funny,cause when one keeps telling lies they often forget the answer they had previously gave.as an old police man once said when you tell one lie you often have to tell a dozen more when questioned about it 8(0(*
As he himself allegedly stated, rotti.
There was another article in a local rag last week. Half a page, somewhere near the middle of the paper, reporting on what Susan Penhaligon(?) and his cell mate think.......................Oh, and a comment from EP in which they state that there was nothing unsafe about his conviction.
totally agree pugs.as always witterly put.can trudi be trusted to share those cup cakes with jb.she looks as if she would scoff the lot.jb wont be getting anymore appeals ,public is sick of him and not interested anymore.as for davids breakthrough iam sure jb is more eager than us to have it bought to the public's attention.but the poor sod has to wait for david n ct to release the breakthrough.there is more chance of boris johnson becoming pope than jb getting another appeal @)(++(*
Have the public in numbers ever been interested in JB's case? The tragedy and trial took place pre 24 hour news and social media. I doubt more than a few hundred people outside Essex could tell you the most basic detail about the case.that film behind mansion walls.i think its called was it an american series
that film behind mansion walls.i think its called was it an american series
Same old, same old...
http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/local/14616124.Emmerdale_actress_narrates_video_released_to_mark_30_year_anniversary_of_Jeremy_Bamber_mass_murder_sentence/ (http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/local/14616124.Emmerdale_actress_narrates_video_released_to_mark_30_year_anniversary_of_Jeremy_Bamber_mass_murder_sentence/)
Gordon Bennett, as an avid Emmerdale follower I had to Google actress Susan Penhaligon and even then I couldn't recall her. I wonder does she really understand what a nasty little hornets nest she has provided her services as a narrator to?she will soon find out john.like many others who have changed stance
Gordon Bennett, as an avid Emmerdale follower I had to Google actress Susan Penhaligon and even then I couldn't recall her. I wonder does she really understand what a nasty little hornets nest she has provided her services as a narrator to?
I've heard rehearsals are well under way for HMP Wakefield's Christmas Pantomime - "Buckets Of Barbed Ire".
One word. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!! @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Maybe just a smidgeon funnier than - "The Prisoner That Time Forgot". 8(8-))
http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/)thanks for the warning iam off to my anderson shelter @)(++(* @)(++(*
ATTENTION! ATTENTION! Poo Storm approaching... Take cover immediately...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTHZP5kxdWk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTHZP5kxdWk)
... which keeps being removed from YouTube for copyright reasons. But for those who haven't seen it, the first link is a reduced screen size video...
https://youtu.be/s-4wJsvY1ZU?t=19m45s (https://youtu.be/s-4wJsvY1ZU?t=19m45s)
The second link at full size starts from around 19:45...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3q4kp2 (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3q4kp2)
Americans are avid crime mystery buffs, so maybe slightly more than a few hundred, Holls?
she will soon find out john.like many others who have changed stance
I'm not aware of anyone changing stance who has publicly campaigned and supported JB?
Just remembered Bob Woffinden but I'm not sure he publicly campaigned and supported JB? Think he just expressed an interest in the case and thought JB might be the victim of a MoJ?
I'm not aware of anyone changing stance who has publicly campaigned and supported JB?holly i meant when she or if she starts asking jb questions about the crime .and he slips up
Just remembered Bob Woffinden but I'm not sure he publicly campaigned and supported JB? Think he just expressed an interest in the case and thought JB might be the victim of a MoJ?
In 2011 Bob W. changed his mind about JB...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387438/I-wrong-Jeremy-Bamber-says-crime-writer.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387438/I-wrong-Jeremy-Bamber-says-crime-writer.html)
... but in 2008 thought JB could be innocent, although I doubt that he was involved in any sustained campaigning...
Can anyone tell me what the letters E, DC, OD, M and WC stand for on the following check sheet?
And EM?
E = entered?
And EM?
E = entered?
E for Entered sounds about right... except for the gun cupboard, which probably had only a quick glance inside?
OD = Opened Door?
DC = Door Checked... or Door Closed?
I also think the E and the M are separate... but I'm stuck on the M.
OD = logged under the (back) stairs. Did the stairs have a door? Collins (TFG) opened the door to the back stairs in kitchen, saw all the junk and didn't attempt to climb them, if I remember.
ROOMS
OD = logged under: stairs, hallway cupboard, drinks, ground bathroom, dining room, JB room, 1st floor WC and 1st floor bathroom
M = logged under: gun cupboard, kitchen and Mr and Mrs B room
DC = logged under: kitchen, J B room, 1st floor WC and 1st floor Bathroom
------------------------------------------------------------------
PERSONS
OD = logged under: Davidson, Bird and Collins
M = logged under: Cook, Bird, Collins and Woodcock
DC = logged under Davidson and Bird
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could M be moved something or someone? Cook moved Sheila's arm, Bird moved the Box room door or a piece of furniture to get better pictures of Sheila?, Collins moved some weapon out of the gun cupboard (maybe the shotgun, seen broken open in the Den/Office photo?), Woodcock moved the Anschutz off Sheila's body to the window.
First time I've seen the name 'Bourne' mentioned.
E for Entered sounds about right... except for the gun cupboard, which probably had only a quick glance inside?
OD = Opened Door?
DC = Door Checked... or Door Closed?
I also think the E and the M are separate... but I'm stuck on the M.
... and two or three others, probably TFG.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is what was bugging me. The first paragraph, in which Poppy Ann Miller mistakenly refers to E as being "logged as empty"... not as "Entered" which it certainly is...
https://www.the-newshub.com/general/jeremy-bamber-a-thirty-year-injustice489 (https://www.the-newshub.com/general/jeremy-bamber-a-thirty-year-injustice489)
http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/jeremy-bamber-gun-cupboard.html (http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/jeremy-bamber-gun-cupboard.html)
Can anyone tell me what the letters E, DC, OD, M and WC stand for on the following check sheet?
PC Woodcock confirms he searched the lobby (box room) attached to the main bedroom but as I said this box room isn't included in the above. All rooms/areas were searched incl the box room between the main bedroom and SC's room and the attic and these aren't included either. Any ideas who was responsible for the doc?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=5pqd7fd86euiur3p70p3slafs3&action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=251 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=5pqd7fd86euiur3p70p3slafs3&action=dlattach;topic=166.0;attach=251)
Both Box Rooms have probably been cut off at the right-hand side of the page through poor photocopying. Or they might be continued on an additional sheet which isn't available. No mystery... ditto with your nefarious poppy theory.
Could M be moved something or someone?
All the names are familiar to me other than 'Bourne'. He also entered the highest number of rooms along with Golding at 14. I would have expected soc officer, DC Hammersley and photographer, PC Bird, to have entered the highest number of rooms. Can anyone shed any light on 'Bourne'?
I note the box room between main bedroom and twins room isn't logged. Which leads me to conclude this document like most documents linked to the case is unreliable. (I would imagine today officers have cameras built into headwear). Officers definitely entered the box room and opened/closed the door as stated in witness statements. This is important given SC's position and that of the bible in soc photos in relation to the box room door.
Chief Sup Harris only entered 5 rooms (3 rooms containing victims). I would have wanted to have a good nosey about in every room to get a feel for the place.
It should be obvious to anyone knowing the basics that 'E' cannot possibly mean Empty. 'E' must mean the same thing throughout the document otherwise what distinguishes one 'E' from another 'E'?!!! It's obvious from soc photos other rooms are not empty so how can 'E' mean the gun cupboard was empty?!!!
What has happened with Troods? And it was all going so well... %#&%4%
Woo Hoo!! Get your tiny little kettle on, Jeremy. Looks like your new pal Peter is on his way!!
8((()*/
Blimey can they be trusted with electricity and boiling water? On a good day they'll be giving each other facials! On a bad day they'll turn to scalding 8)><(
What has happened with Troods? And it was all going so well... %#&%4%
Who knows, John? Maybe she's had to come to terms with the fact that Bamber is a psychopath, with literally no empathy. Reference Daisy, who tried her best to help him, then was abused.
Yeah, sure... Jeremy Bamber is kind, sincere, friendly, sensitive, writes nice letters (albeit in angry block capitals) thirty years after the event. Trouble is, he's also an inveterate liar who murdered his family, of that there is no doubt.too true myster,excellently put 8((()*/
how sweet of daisey to accept him as part of the family and her reward was shocking .glad she wrote an account of it to warn others , daisey is a really lovely person my heart goes out to her 8((()*/
Sorry admin. Apparently the latest from the CT is to do with people holding placards up with " I am Jeremy Bamber" on them.
Jeremy Bamber's Story: A short video with painful android narration, but including some unseen Anglia News footage of the funeral...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I-ofF0Oclo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I-ofF0Oclo)
I notice Trudi has been busy beavering away organising a crowdfunding page to raise £4000 for Jeremy Bamber. She is claiming some cock and bull story about the window Bamber used to get into and out of the farmhouse on the morning of the murders. The same window by the way he later used to retrieve his passport weeks after the murders.
I notice Trudi has been busy beavering away organising a crowdfunding page to raise £4000 for Jeremy Bamber. She is claiming some cock and bull story about the window Bamber used to get into and out of the farmhouse on the morning of the murders. The same window by the way he later used to retrieve his passport weeks after the murders.
Wrong window, John... it's for a preliminary report on the kitchen window, the one he exited...
Just to clarify. It was claimed by the prosecution that he climbed out the window above the kitchen sink the morning of the murders as items on the sink appeared to have been moved aside to facilitate his exit and a small amount of watery blood was allegedly found on the window. I take it then that it was the bathroom window which he used much later to gain access in order to retrieve his passport?
ps removed the crowdjustice link for obvious reasons.
The bathroom/shower-room window was the one JB used to gain access on two occasions - on the night of the murders (allegedly), and several weeks later to collect some travel documents before going abroad, when he left a note for Barbara Wilson to say he entered that way as needed them urgently and had no key.
When housekeeper Jean Bouttell was shown the crime scene photo by the police she commented that some items around the sink were not in their usual positions... bottles, plate-drying rack maybe?
The CT now claim that the jury were only shown the photo where the window catch appears to be set at 7 o'clock. The prosecution argued that JB exited that window and banged it to, but it looks like the latch didn't drop down to a fully-locked position, giving the impression that he might have been through it.
However, in 2011 the CT came across this other photo, taken they say, at the same time as the first which seems to show the catch fully-locked, and so favours the defence argument that the window was never used as an exit.
The photos have obviously been taken from different viewpoints - one near to the AGA, the other near to the (phone) worktop, but I think anyone can see that the curved shape of the handle creates an illusion that there is a difference in the catch positions, when in fact there isn't.
Sorry Myster but am totally confused now. The photos you kindly posted earlier and the ones the Campaign Team are now referring to were of the kitchen window, the one above the kitchen sink. Now, where the heck does the bathroom window come in?
eta Was it suggested that he got in using the bathroom window but exited using the kitchen one? &%+((£
Thanx Myster, I hadn't actually appreciated that point. Raises the question as to why would he enter by one window yet leave by another?
Thanx Myster, I hadn't actually appreciated that point. Raises the question as to why would he enter by one window yet leave by another? Could it have been that he decided to leave by the back kitchen window since there was less chance of being seen just in case someone had heard the shots and was watching?
I notice Trudi has been busy beavering away organising a crowdfunding page to raise £4000 for Jeremy Bamber. She is claiming some cock and bull story about the window Bamber used to get into and out of the farmhouse on the morning of the murders. The same window by the way he later used to retrieve his passport weeks after the murders.
Wowee!!! 32 people have "pledged" (ho ho!) £1,025. That's over......(drumroll).......30 QUID EACH!!!!!!!!!! Oh, the untold riches, the reckless lavishness.......
I hope I get invited to the freedom party, it's going to be flipping mental. "Vimto and Wotsits all round, carriages at 8.30 prompt. (Probably best to bring your own toilet rolls)."
And...Mike. Thank you for being such a dodgy, fat, angry little burglar, and solving Maddie and the Moors murders, and 9/11, and the cure for cancer.
You massive tw...
More hot air... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gxrdSi8AK8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gxrdSi8AK8)
Myster, I've tried to plough through this, but what a boring, tedious pile of old bollox it is. It actually sounds like 4 wanky codgers sharing a bottle of White Lightening and dicking about with a CB radio. If this is the best that the CT can manage, it's no wonder that Bamber will be playing "hunt the carbolic" with Mick Philpott for the next 20 years.
From the "Bamber is innocent 'cause he's a friendly guy" school of thought.
Totally one-sided and missing the incisive interviewing technique of a Paxo.
Did you notice the number of "you knows"?... I counted at least 25,000.
When I heard the 35th "you know" I actually wondered if I should stab myself in the eye with a spork.
Troods. More to be pitied than scolded. 8(8-))
Anyone see 'Conviction : Murder at the station' produced by the BBC and aired a few times recently? Pathologist Peter Vanezis and Ewen Smith of the CCRC both took part.
www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2016/conviction-murder-at-the-station
www.aol.co.uk/entertainment/2016/09/21/viewers-are-on-edge-after-a-gripping-first-episode-of-conviction-murder-at-the-station/
Anyone see 'Conviction : Murder at the station' produced by the BBC and aired a few times recently? Pathologist Peter Vanezis and Ewen Smith of the CCRC both took part.
www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2016/conviction-murder-at-the-station (http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2016/conviction-murder-at-the-station)
www.aol.co.uk/entertainment/2016/09/21/viewers-are-on-edge-after-a-gripping-first-episode-of-conviction-murder-at-the-station/ (http://www.aol.co.uk/entertainment/2016/09/21/viewers-are-on-edge-after-a-gripping-first-episode-of-conviction-murder-at-the-station/)
More hot air... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gxrdSi8AK8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gxrdSi8AK8)
Letter received by Trudi today, and I quote verbatim:
DEAR TRUDI,
THIS IS JUST A SHORT NOTE TO THANK EVERYONE WHOSE (sic) HELPED ME OUT WITH THE WINDOW ISSUE.
I AM WORRIED THOUGH THAT AFTER 32 YEARS WRONGFULLY IMPRISONED THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT THIS WINDOW ISSUE IS TO PROVING MY INNOCENCE.
THE WINDOW ISSUE IS ONE OF MY ALIBIS, PROVE THAT IS WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE KITCHEN WINDOW TO BE SHUT IN THE WAY SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH DISCLOSED TO ME IN 2011, AND THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS AWFUL TRAGEDY WAS STILL IN THE HOUSE AT 07.34 WHEN ESSEX POLICE BROKE IN.
PROVING THE WINDOW ISSUE COULD AND SHOULD SET ME FREE.
THANK YOU
JEREMY X
This is truly grasping at straws. 8(8-))
I think the tone of the letter sounds as if he is losing heart over the whole affair and is just going through the motions. 8((()*/
So detached and impersonal when mentioning his own sister as "the person responsible", as though Sheila never existed in his life at all.
Why don't the campaign team publish the actual court transcript of what the prosecution said about the window lever, if anything, then the public can decide whether to part with their money for any dubious forensic tests. The lever's vertical position is exactly the same in both photos, the illusion of any difference created by its curved shape away from the window frame when photographed from two separate viewpoints.
(http://i.imgur.com/E0ifzyQ.jpg?1)
Troodi /CT don't seem to understand the CCRC/CoA criteria for a successful appeal.
Where is this located?
The CCRC website did set out the criteria out in laymans terms but I can't find it now. Anyway here it is from CoA:
Hearing new evidence
The Court of Appeal may hear new evidence that was not adduced in the original proceedings (section 23(1)(c) Criminal Appeal Act 1968), if:
it appears capable of belief;
it may afford any ground for allowing the appeal;
it would have been admissible;
it is an issue which is the subject of the appeal;
there is a reasonable explanation for the failure to adduce it.
As far as I can see the windows fail on point 5. What is the reasonable explanation for the failure to adduce it [at trial]? I doubt asleep at the wheel defence counts 8)-)))
CT/Troodi you need something NEW eg a new witness or some new forensic science that wasn't known about about at the time of JB's trial. The windows could and should have been robustly challenged at trial. I've no idea whether they were or not but its a case of use it [at trial] or lose it! The courts view on failure to adduce can be evidenced at JB's 2002 appeal, point 514 regarding the evidence of Dr Ismail for the prosecution. The defence argued that Dr Ismail's evidence was something that could have been adduced at trial. The court agreed and Dr Ismail's evidence was rejected on this basis.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html (http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html)
Regardless of failure to adduce you must surely appreciate that the windows and/or suicide letters are not strong enough to overcome the silencer and blood evidence? You really are wasting time and money. I'm sorry to sound so negative but I'm just being honest and realistic.
Agree with that Myster, it's pretty obvious that perspective/angles play a part here.
It's hardly a slam dunk that will get JB back to the COA! &%&£(+
Ewen Smith at the CCRC... https://youtu.be/8YSMsVFuAIU?t=41m26s (https://youtu.be/8YSMsVFuAIU?t=41m26s)
(http://i.imgur.com/TCX70nS.jpg)
I don't doubt it's an authentic letter but how come JB's private correspondence with Trudi, dated less than a week ago, is making its way into the public domain?
He must realise the windows do not meet the criteria for a successful CCRC application/CoA hearing.
As I've said before whether he's guilty or innocent the mental strain of 31 years incarceration, circa 30 years as Cat A, must have taken its toll. I don't take any notice of anything he says.
The CCRC website did set out the criteria out in laymans terms but I can't find it now. Anyway here it is from CoA:
Hearing new evidence
The Court of Appeal may hear new evidence that was not adduced in the original proceedings (section 23(1)(c) Criminal Appeal Act 1968), if:
it appears capable of belief;
it may afford any ground for allowing the appeal;
it would have been admissible;
it is an issue which is the subject of the appeal;
there is a reasonable explanation for the failure to adduce it.
As far as I can see the windows fail on point 5. What is the reasonable explanation for the failure to adduce it [at trial]? I doubt asleep at the wheel defence counts 8)-)))
CT/Troodi you need something NEW eg a new witness or some new forensic science that wasn't known about about at the time of JB's trial. The windows could and should have been robustly challenged at trial. I've no idea whether they were or not but its a case of use it [at trial] or lose it! The courts view on failure to adduce can be evidenced at JB's 2002 appeal, point 514 regarding the evidence of Dr Ismail for the prosecution. The defence argued that Dr Ismail's evidence was something that could have been adduced at trial. The court agreed and Dr Ismail's evidence was rejected on this basis.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
Regardless of failure to adduce you must surely appreciate that the windows and/or suicide letters are not strong enough to overcome the silencer and blood evidence? You really are wasting time and money. I'm sorry to sound so negative but I'm just being honest and realistic.
It's on the Facebook group page Holly. Apologies, I should have said.
It looks to me that Trudi asked JB to dash off a note for his supporters to keep their peckers up, and the donations rolling in.
It seems very much by rote, though, almost as if he knows that the window "issue" is doomed to go nowhere.
You set it out very succinctly Holly. 8@??)( Do you think the CT read this forum? &%+((£
Thanks and that was after 2 bottles of strong lager (7.5% abv) and 2 G&T's &%+((£
If I was the CT I would be interested in listening to and understanding all views, for and against, but they seem a pretty insular bunch so maybe they just discuss the case with each other remotely and %£&)**#
I don't doubt it's an authentic letter but how come JB's private correspondence with Trudi, dated less than a week ago, is making its way into the public domain?
He must realise the windows do not meet the criteria for a successful CCRC application/CoA hearing.
As I've said before whether he's guilty or innocent the mental strain of 31 years incarceration, circa 30 years as Cat A, must have taken its toll. I don't take any notice of anything he says.
I'm sure that he had a decent education at Gresham's, and he's been corresponding with assorted deluded dingbats for 30 years, so why does he STILL write like a sulky 8 year old? Is it because he's a lazy, arrogant psychopath who treats it all like a game, thrives on attention and gets his rocks off milking old ladies for their pension?
Ummmm.....yes. %£&)**#
And it's BEYOND RIDICULOUS to think that June would stay in bed when Ralph was making frantic phonecalls and Sheila was wandering about the house with a loaded gun. But June was shot in bed.
Bamber had the element of surprise. Sheila couldn't have.
QED.
I bet you were swooning all over the place after that lot... see, you were right about me after all!!
I'm sure that he had a decent education at Gresham's, and he's been corresponding with assorted deluded dingbats for 30 years, so why does he STILL write like a sulky 8 year old? Is it because he's a lazy, arrogant psychopath who treats it all like a game, thrives on attention and gets his rocks off milking old ladies for their pension?
Ummmm.....yes. %£&)**#
When I read Mendoza's post where he/she had copied and pasted the letter I thought it was a wind-up! Hence I asked where it originated from!
Why on earth would someone claiming to support him upload his private correspondence to the www? Especially given the content/tone.
These people show poor judgement time and time again: bake-offs, graveside readings and now uploading JB's private correpsondence to the www.
WE may not agree very often but I'd go along with that.
But WE do actually agree on quite a lot:
- Don't believe NB called EP -
- Don't believe EP were actually in communication with anyone inside farmhouse
- Don't believe there's any particular significance in the 'movement' at the bedroom window.
- Don't believe SC died significantly later than the other victims.
- Don't believe SC was actually seen in the kitchen by the raid team.
- Don't believe EP shot SC.
- Don't believe SC or June were found on the bed.
- Don't believe June or NB sustained wounds to their arms by way of SC's nails.
- Don't believe NB was shot in the bedroom due in part? to lack of casings and blood.
- Don't believe the silencer evidence ie think it was fabricated.
Have I missed anything significant?
And yet you believe JB guilty and I believe him innocent! &%+((£
Areas we disagree:
- I believe JB was in the main honest with his WS's and testimony, you don't. This obviously covers a lot eg leaving rifle out, phone calls etc.
- I believe SC was capable of using the rifle, you don't
- I don't believe JM & co were reliable prosecution witnesses, you do.
Have I missed anything significant?
But WE do actually agree on quite a lot:
- Don't believe NB called EP
- Don't believe EP were actually in communication with anyone inside farmhouse
- Don't believe there's any particular significance in the 'movement' at the bedroom window.
- Don't believe SC died significantly later than the other victims.
- Don't believe SC was actually seen in the kitchen by the raid team.
- Don't believe EP shot SC.
- Don't believe SC or June were found on the bed.
- Don't believe June or NB sustained wounds to their arms by way of SC's nails.
- Don't believe NB was shot in the bedroom due in part? to lack of casings and blood.
- Don't believe the silencer evidence ie think it was fabricated.
Have I missed anything significant?
And yet you believe JB guilty and I believe him innocent! &%+((£
Areas we disagree:
- I believe JB was in the main honest with his WS's and testimony, you don't. This obviously covers a lot eg leaving rifle out, phone calls etc.
- I believe SC was capable of using the rifle, you don't
- I don't believe JM & co were reliable prosecution witnesses, you do.
Have I missed anything significant?
The CT have announced that the Crowd Justice appeal has just had a £1200 donation.
There's one born every minute. %£&)**#
What was that you said Puglove? About fleecing old dingbats out of their pensions? @)(++(*
Answers on a postcard as to where that conveniently came from! £4%4%
The CT have announced that the Crowd Justice appeal has just had a £1200 donation.
There's one born every minute. %£&)**#
What was that you said Puglove? About fleecing old dingbats out of their pensions? @)(++(*
Where did you see the announcement?
It was announced by Troods on the JB Campaign Facebook page.
Their stretch target is now £10,000
They're on a roll, begging yet more from the gullible... and it'll all end in tears.
Their stretch target is now £10,000 I can't see Peter and Ann allowing access to the farmhouse in order to play guessing games with the kitchen and bathroom windows though, always assuming they haven't had Everest in in the meantime.
The £4,000.00p was for tests on the notes found in Sheila's bedroom and the kitchen window. What is the next £6,000.00p for ?
To pay a resurrected Ted Moult for his expertise at banging on windows... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs5sL-e45eQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs5sL-e45eQ)
Their stretch target is now £10,000 I can't see Peter and Ann allowing access to the farmhouse in order to play guessing games with the kitchen and bathroom windows though, always assuming they haven't had Everest in in the meantime.
Yes, I would go along with all of that and can't see anything you've missed. Except I think there is a lot that Julie didn't or couldn't say. Also, I certainly think Sheila would have been capable of using the rifle but not without being first shown how and certainly not in the throws of a psychotic episode.
I believe SC was responsible but how would I know, or anyone else for that matter, whether or not she was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia at the time of the murders? Maybe she was in some rage state or some other altered state of mind not necessarily associated with Dr Ferguson's diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia?
Here's a case where a man murdered his wife over arguments about money. He then killed the pet dogs and later his two children. He was not psychotic:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1327536/Life-for-father-who-killed-wife-and-children.html
Tracie Andrews and Jane Andrews both murdered their boyfriends but afaik neither of them have ever been diagnosed with any mental illness or personality disorder?
People murder for all sorts of reasons. Can we be sure that if someone is diagnosed with a mental illness such as paranoid schizophrenia and they go on to murder that the illness was the cause?
The crucial points are you disbelieve Julie despite her evidence being corroborated for the most part and think Sheila capable of loading and firing 25 shots without missing once even though she was on medication and incapable of holding anything steady.
Do you really think Julie would have come back from Canada and was quite prepared to give evidence at Bamber's last appeal had she made up porkies?
Afaik there's nothing in JM's testimony that wasn't known to others eg local community, relatives, media, police etc. And what wasn't known to others eg "hitman" (MM) couldn't be corroborated.
Major Freddie Mead:
“The actual facts of the shooting make accuracy an irrelevancy… The distances were so close as to make the question of hitting academic.”
http://jimshelley.com/crime/jeremy-bamber/
If SC was incapable of holding anything steady how come her fingernails and toenails were well manicured and polished and her eyebrows shaped?
I think the police brainwashed JM into believing JB was guilty. I can see from JB's interviews DS Jones asks JB questions about his handling the rifle and a lack of his fingerprints from JB and SC. This is obviously a poorly trained officer who doesn't realise that firearms simply don't yield a lot of fingerprints due to the coating known as "bluing". He also tells JB they [EP] know SC was murdered as she could not have shot herself twice. This is not what the pathologist said.
31 years ago people in general were far more deferential towards authority than they are today. A just 21 yoa JM may well have thought to herself, the police tell me SC's fingerprints were not on the rifle and she could not have shot herself twice therefore I guess they're right JB must have done it! By this stage she had no particular loyalty to JB as the relationship was over. Plus she could save herself from a lot of hassle by way of OCP, cheque fraud and drug dealing.
Who said she painted her own nails and did her own eyebrows?
Julie wasn't an idiot, she was an intelligent woman, but this scenario doesn't work because Liz Rimmington, Susan Battersby and Charles Marsden were all told the same story by Julie 'before' it was reported to the police. Were people more respectful of the police in the 80's? Wasn't that a time of high rioting?
Well if SC didn't manicure and polish her own nails and shape her own eyebrows who did?
The police told JB only two fingerprints were found on the rifle one from SC and one from JB. They obviously think this is suspicious. It isn't, it's entirely normal. They also told JB that SC didn't kill herself, that two shots were fired into her and either or both would be fatal. This is simply a lie. The only opinion that counts here is that of the pathologist and he has always maintained he is unable to confirm murder or suicide. Moreover the first shot was not instantly fatal. JB stood up to this style of interview as he knows he is innocent. JM does not know for sure JB is innocent.
Why were JM and LR holed up in a self-contained flat? Why were they supervised at all times? Why was JM "encouraged" not to talk to anyone while she was there including her mum?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1328
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1304
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=289.0;attach=1168
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=289.0;attach=1170
How do you know that JM told prosecution witnesses anything, let alone when?
- 27th Aug : JM's WS states she told SB about JB's involvement.
- 29th Aug : Party held at JM's house to celebrate her 21st. SB, LR and JB in attendance. SB's WS states she messed about with JB spraying him with dairy cream.
- 1st Sep : CAL's book quotes LR's WS that this was the day she was told by JM about JB's involvement.
- 6th Sep : JM's WS claims she had a phone conversation with JB and asked if she could have the bike. JB arrived later that day with BC but without the bike. JB and BC give JM and LR a lift from Lewisham to Piccadily Circus for a night out clubbing. JB and BC go on elsewhere.
These were three young intelligent women from 'normal' middle classish backgrounds. Why would they continue to socialise with JB if they thought he was capable of mass murder?
If you and others believe they are reliable prosecution witnesses then that's up to you but I certainly don't. I suspect at some stage, if it hasn't already happened, one or more will reveal all and the whole thing will collapse like a pack of cards.
You never answered my earlier questions Holly but are some more. Do you really think Julie made up the story about the tranquilisers that Jeremy asked her to get so that he could test them out on himself? What about the 'I could have been an actor' comment made after the funeral, do you think she invented that too?
Maybe she invented Jeremy's involvement in the robbery at Osea Caravan Park too?
And as for the hitman, did Jeremy Bamber not fill her head with this story in order to take the pressure of himself?
Lets be honest Holly, nobody in their right senses would invent such preposterous stories because they would be found out.
Holly, with respect, can you not see that Sheila was in no fit state to carry out such cold calculated murders all at the same time with all but one bullet finding their target?
To summarize:
* Sheila was not familiar with the rifle at all, its operation and loading etc...
* Sheila was under medication and subdued when last spoken with.
* Sheila was small in stature and of light build, she was not fit to overpower Nevill in a struggle.
* Sheila was forensically clean when found indicating she had not handled the rifle.
* Sheila had no cuts or bruises on her body aside from the two bullet holes.
* Hardly a hair out of place I believe the term used by David Boutflour.
* And all this was supposed to have taken place after 3pm and before police arrived on site?
Don't you think these facts are just a little odd for someone who was supposed to have carried out such a terrible crime?
You never answered my earlier questions Holly but are some more. Do you really think Julie made up the story about the tranquilisers that Jeremy asked her to get so that he could test them out on himself? What about the 'I could have been an actor' comment made after the funeral, do you think she invented that too?
Maybe she invented Jeremy's involvement in the robbery at Osea Caravan Park too?
And as for the hitman, did Jeremy Bamber not fill her head with this story in order to take the pressure of himself?
Lets be honest Holly, nobody in their right senses would invent such preposterous stories because they would be found out.
snip...
What about the claims of "I could have been an actor"? Was this at the funeral or when the pair met at Bourtree cottage and DS Jones claims he heard JB chuckle?
My view is that the rifle is simple to operate and someone such as SC that was brought up on a farm, surrounded by firearms and those that use them, would be more than capable of operating such and shooting targets at close range ie about 1 foot away. You might recall I visited a local gun shop and loaded the same bullets into the same mag. Nothing could be simpler. I didn't actually insert the mag into the rifle, chamber a round and pull the trigger but it's not rocket science. I would honestly say it is a whole lot easier than using a range of other everyday equipment such as white goods, controls on cars, baby care equipment and so on. Certainly easier than loading a battery into a say the tv remote whereby it is possible to insert the battery the wrong way round. I would go as far as saying that even if you weren't brought up on a farm surrounded by firearms and those that use them you would easily figure it out. I accept you and others don't share my views on this and that's fair enough. It's a bit pointless getting into a debate along the lines of yes she could; no she couldn't.
Yes PB said SC was quiet when she spoke to her at circa 10pm on 6th Aug. Others also said she was quiet such as CC on the drive from London to WHF. Others, such as Len Foakes, said she appeared ok. In any event I'm not sure whether she was quiet and subdued or not would prevent someone murdering with a rifle and taking their own life?
SC wasn't particularly small in stature. She was about 5' 7" tall that's about 2/3" taller than the average UK female. Yes she was slim but not unhealthily so. In any event if she was the perp she was at an advantage with a loaded rifle and I don't think stature comes into it. NB was so badly injured upstairs that he was not capable of entering into a "violent struggle" in the kitchen with anyone.
It is said SC's nightdress was "relatively clean" but I've no idea what exactly this means? It is said the nightdress was checked for the presence of gun oil but why would gun oil be expected on her nightdress? Afaik there's no forensic science that shows when someone fires a rifle they will end up with gun oil on their clothing?
Blood spatter could arise from victims gunshot wounds or the injuries NB sustained from a "blunt instrument". But the blood on the rifle was insufficient for grouping so if this was the "blunt instrument" used to strike NB I don't think it would necessarily follow that the perp would be covered in blood spatter from this? Again had there been a lot of blood spatter from the victims gunshot wounds then why was there so little blood on the rifle given the barrel was far closer to victims than the perp? The blood on the rifle was described as splashes and smears. Blood spatter from gunshot wound is described as a fine mist like spray. You can see from the following book if it links to the correct page "There is no valid scientific basis to relate estimates or establish probabilities for the production of impact spatter resulting from gunshot".
Also the rifle was found resting on SC's body with her hand in contact meaning if there was an gun oil, gsr or blood spatter on rifle why were these things not found on her nightdress and hand?
Also the rifle was found resting on SC's body with her hand in contact meaning if there was an gun oil, gsr or blood spatter on rifle why were these things not found on her nightdress and hand?
Why would SC have any cut and bruises on her body? There's no evidence anyone entered into any hand to hand combat with anyone. I believe she beat NB with the "blunt instrument" probably the rifle but this was at a time after he had sustained 4 gunshot wounds 1 of which caused total impairment to his left arm.
It seems JM went to her GP re issues stemming from her work placement. It's not to clear to me whether this was anxiety or sleep problems or something else? In any event it ended up being part of JM's WS about her claims JB planned to murder his family. I've no idea whether it formed part of her trial testimony. If it did then I would have thought the defence would have been entitled to access JM's medical records, interview the GP about the visit and check with a chemist the nature of the prescription. As far as I can see we have no idea exactly what the issue was JM claimed to suffer or details of the prescription. In any event surely anyone would realise that if they planned to drug 5 people this would show up at autopsy and subsequent toxicology tests?
What about the claims of "I could have been an actor"? Was this at the funeral or when the pair met at Bourtree cottage and DS Jones claims he heard JB chuckle?
No idea where the hitman story came from. Did EP pile the pressure on JM telling her SC could not have killed herself due to lack of fingerprints on firearm and the two gsw's and she came up with the idea of MM due to his past and the rumours that surrounded him? Who knows what went on at the self-contained flat the police arranged where she was supervised at all times and "encouraged" not to speak with anyone including her mother. How long was she there for? A very unhealthy situation I would say with a bunch of middle aged experienced male police officers and a just turned 21 year old female cut off from the outside world.
Clearly not all JM's WS was BS but imo a lot of it is.
Yes, Nevill DID have impairment to his left arm, due to having already been shot in the bedroom. Also severe injuries to his face and jaw which would have precluded him speaking on the phone. If he HAD tried to phone anyone, his blood would have been all over the receiver. It wasn't, and he didn't.
Bamber is guilty as charged, and is where he belongs, IMHO.
I think the supporters argument would be that Sheila went upstairs and shot everyone while Nevill was supposedly on the phone.. Had that occurred however, Jeremy would have heard shots.Yes, and would have told the police that.
Yes, and would have told the police that.
If Sheila had been responsible, Nevill would not have come back downstairs again, he would have overpowered Sheila upstairs.
Jeremy must have been utterly horrified that Nevill escaped despite 4 bullets in him, and made it to the kitchen. Jeremy had to stop him at all costs, hence the brutal beating.
Throw away the key!
Yes, and would have told the police that.
If Sheila had been responsible, Nevill would not have come back downstairs again, he would have overpowered Sheila upstairs.
Jeremy must have been utterly horrified that Nevill escaped despite 4 bullets in him, and made it to the kitchen. Jeremy had to stop him at all costs, hence the brutal beating.
Throw away the key!
Fair play, Holl thinks that she's got something up her sleeve, and is confident that the tide will turn, but I'm equally confident that Bamber is guilty, a totally lost cause, and is mostly supported by nutters, dickwads, crooks and glory hunters. He's got as much chance of being released as I've got having dinner on the moon. With Justin Bieber. As Lord Lucan canters gently past on Shergar.
Fair play, Holl thinks that she's got something up her sleeve, and is confident that the tide will turn, but I'm equally confident that Bamber is guilty, a totally lost cause, and is mostly supported by nutters, dickwads, crooks and glory hunters. He's got as much chance of being released as I've got having dinner on the moon. With Justin Bieber. As Lord Lucan canters gently past on Shergar.
Letter received by Trudi today, and I quote verbatim:
DEAR TRUDI,
THIS IS JUST A SHORT NOTE TO THANK EVERYONE WHOSE (sic) HELPED ME OUT WITH THE WINDOW ISSUE.
I AM WORRIED THOUGH THAT AFTER 32 YEARS WRONGFULLY IMPRISONED THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT THIS WINDOW ISSUE IS TO PROVING MY INNOCENCE.
THE WINDOW ISSUE IS ONE OF MY ALIBIS, PROVE THAT IS WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE KITCHEN WINDOW TO BE SHUT IN THE WAY SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH DISCLOSED TO ME IN 2011, AND THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS AWFUL TRAGEDY WAS STILL IN THE HOUSE AT 07.34 WHEN ESSEX POLICE BROKE IN.
PROVING THE WINDOW ISSUE COULD AND SHOULD SET ME FREE.
THANK YOU
JEREMY X
This is truly grasping at straws. 8(8-))
I think the tone of the letter sounds as if he is losing heart over the whole affair and is just going through the motions. 8((()*/
So detached and impersonal when mentioning his own sister as "the person responsible", as though Sheila never existed in his life at all.
Why don't the campaign team publish the actual court transcript of what the prosecution said about the window lever, if anything, then the public can decide whether to part with their money for any dubious forensic tests. The lever's vertical position is exactly the same in both photos, the illusion of any difference created by its curved shape away from the window frame when photographed from two separate viewpoints.
(http://i.imgur.com/E0ifzyQ.jpg?1)
Some pretty pictures, but very little else and certainly no new evidence...
Sounds as if they might be making use of the supportive actress. Obviously a practiced speaker.Someone called Jo Kemp apparently. Whoever she is! &%+((£
Someone called Jo Kemp apparently. Whoever she is! &%+((£
Latches are designed to stop unauthorised entry, not exit. How hard would it be to put a wire on the handle and pull it down from outside with the wire detaching and being pulled out through the gap between the window and the frame. And for all anyone knows he got out from an upstairs window using a ladder.Piano, guitar or any thin wire, even strong linen thread used to secure the side fastener. Bottom stays are easily pre-adjusted to drop into position when a window is shut from outside, especially if well-used and worn. Having a solid-fuel AGA on constantly could also mean that the window was always being opened for ventilation, wearing down both stay and side fastener.
Bamber is so deluded he thinks everyone will fall for his rantings.
Piano, guitar or any thin wire, even strong linen thread used to secure the side fastener. Bottom stays are easily pre-adjusted to drop into position when a window is shut from outside, especially if well-used and worn. Having a solid-fuel AGA on constantly could also mean that the window was always being opened for ventilation, wearing down both stay and side fastener.
I don't know if E.P. pursued a ladder theory. Susan Burgess, one of Sheila's friends, recalled (in a w/s) that in her teens she "escaped" from her bedroom (twins' room) above the kitchen using a ladder, to visit Maldon and Colchester after dark. So it might have given JB the idea. A lot more work involved than a downstairs window; placing it and then hiding it when the job was done; sliding the lower sash back down while balancing on the rungs, so he'd need a head for heights. The top sash in the main bedroom was left partly open, so no need to fasten it either. If asked, Bamber could say his parents left it open for ventilation on hot summer nights.
I lived in an old farmhouse once which had windows identical to whf. The upstairs sash casement windows had a catch where the top and bottom panes met so when opened either window would slide up or down. All Bamber had to do was leave the ladder in a convenient place the night before. When he arrived back he could have placed the ladder up to the bedroom window before entering the house via a downstairs window securing it behind him. To exit all he had to do was pull up the lower pane of the bedroom window and climb out onto the ladder pulling the pane down as he left. Then put the ladder away before scampering off home leaving the house looking secure to anyone who didn't know any better.
All very quiet in Bamberland. Has the momentum been finally lost?They have probably realised that all the cash in the world is not going to buy them the answers they want, or make a guilty man innocent.
Quick quick quick ----- CBS Reality, Encounters With Evil.Missed it, what was it about Puglove?
Missed it, what was it about Puglove?
So did I, but it's probably this which is repeated at 10:00 tonight, I think. Not sure whether it's streamed online or on Sky/Virgin/Freeview TV. Very poor website information-wise...Thanks Myster, looks a bit cannibalistic pour moi.....
http://www.cbsreality.tv/uk/shows.php
title=Encounters+With+Evil (http://www.cbsreality.tv/uk/shows.php
title=Encounters+With+Evil)
Thanks Myster, looks a bit cannibalistic pour moi.....
The info on that page has changed since yesterday when it included Jeremy Bamber, whereas the latest show is about Jeffery Dahmer and other cannibals.
The programme covers different killers every night - I suppose the underlying theme is incontrovertible guilt. I missed some of it because I was feeding the hedgehog, but there was an interview with Stan Jones (top bloke), and a couple with Ann Eaton. It lumped Bamber in with Stuart Hazell. There was a short proviso at the end, about Bamber maintaining his guilt, but most child murderers do that. It left you in doubt that Bamber is guilty.
8((()*/
Would have enjoyed listening to what Ann, and Stan the Man had to say. Can't find any streamed version, and doubt that it will appear on YouTube. Pity.
NaNu *thinks* - Thank godness for that!
The programme covers different killers every night - I suppose the underlying theme is incontrovertible guilt. I missed some of it because I was feeding the hedgehog, but there was an interview with Stan Jones (top bloke), and a couple with Ann Eaton. It lumped Bamber in with Stuart Hazell. There was a short proviso at the end, about Bamber maintaining his innocence, but most child murderers do that. It left you in doubt that Bamber is guilty.I'm assuming you meant to say - "no" - doubt, Puglove? 8)--))
8((()*/
I'm assuming you meant to say - "no" - doubt, Puglove? 8)--))
Ooops! Cheers, Mendoza!! 8((()*/
The newly elected leader of UKIP, Paul Nuttall, wants to bring back the death penalty for child killers. I guess the Bamberettes wont be voting UKIP any time soon.
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/726804/Ukip-leadership-Paul-Nuttall-referendums-abortion-death-penalty
Some of the comments posted on the Bamber official website by lawyers who in theory should know better.
Flo Krause (LLB Sheffield)
(http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/_/rsrc/1449855108189/patrons-and-supporters/flo_krause.jpg?height=200&width=200) (http://www.meritzchambers.co.uk/images/flo-krause_meritz-chambers.jpg)
A leading Barrister working in Human Rights Law. Flo says, "There was never any direct evidence in this case, no motive was ever established and even psychology cannot identify any factor in Jeremy's profile that could help understand why he might have done it. If ever a reasonable doubt existed, this must be the case for it." (Flo is not Jeremy's legal representative).
Diana Lady Waterlow JP
(https://ugotalksalot.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/no-thumb.jpg)
As a Magistrate for 42 years and the Director of the SFA Regulatory City Board for 16 years, Diana says, "Having studied all the evidence at great length, also looking for a possible motive; I find that Jeremy is certainly innocent; we must all work to rectify this terrible injustice."
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/patrons-and-supporters
now we are leaving the eu does that mean their interference with bambers human rights will stop and he will never be released &%+((£ 8)--))
Recently the courts already upheld life tariffs so even if a full fledged EU member it would not matter.thank you.nice to hear that.will sleep well tonight 8((()*/
thank you.nice to hear that.will sleep well tonight 8((()*/
I've just wasted 40 minutes watching this crap. "Sheila was playing dead" on the floor of the kitchen, my a$$.
What a pathetic load of hot air and bluster... and totally WRONG!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcaWYr3O3eE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcaWYr3O3eE&feature=youtu.be)
Someone give that guy a medal 8@??)( I managed around 5 minutes. The feigned ingenuousness sickened me. However it seems Jeremy has taken the prize for being the most important man in prison history for 100 years. Such an accolade will surely encourage him to stay put.
I've just wasted 40 minutes watching this crap. "Sheila was playing dead" on the floor of the kitchen, my a$$.
What a pathetic load of hot air and bluster... and totally WRONG!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcaWYr3O3eE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcaWYr3O3eE&feature=youtu.be)
This is the problem with supporters, they just make Bamber look more guilty.
The OS is well presented and convincing to people who do not know much about the case & Bamber is able to get himself into the media with things such as bake offs. It should be left at that.
I could be quite rude but suffice to say I disagree entirely with Bambergate.What?... no caustic comment on gobby Bamberguff? Not like you, Holly!
What?... no caustic comment on gobby Bamberguff? Not like you, Holly!
Supporters who don't understand the case. Yes. Likewise, Those who advocate on the other side who don't understand the case make him look more innocent.
Its full of unnecessary misinformation. Anyone who digs deeper will start to feel they are untrustworthy.
This has to be the ultimate in understatements @)(++(*
I've just wasted 40 minutes watching this crap. "Sheila was playing dead" on the floor of the kitchen, my a$$.
What a pathetic load of hot air and bluster... and totally WRONG!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcaWYr3O3eE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcaWYr3O3eE&feature=youtu.be)
I've just wasted 40 minutes watching this crap. "Sheila was playing dead" on the floor of the kitchen, my a$$.
What a pathetic load of hot air and bluster... and totally WRONG!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcaWYr3O3eE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcaWYr3O3eE&feature=youtu.be)
Someone give that guy a medal 8@??)( I managed around 5 minutes. The feigned ingenuousness sickened me. However it seems Jeremy has taken the prize for being the most important man in prison history for 100 years. Such an accolade will surely encourage him to stay put.
Looks like their is there is some difficulty with JB Campaign Limited with Companies House currently listing a potential strike-off.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616
Can you put that into plain English, John. Are they about to "cease trading"?
Can you put that into plain English, John. Are they about to "cease trading"?
It certainly looks that way.
Oh dear! 8)><(
@)(++(* @)(++(* 8@??)(.....................less is more
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
It seems like they have failed to provide a 'confirmation statement' and they only have 5 days left or the company with be 'compulsorily' dissolved.
Company law has recently changed with the confirmation statement replacing the annual return, so the above might be an administrative process rather than anything sinister eg Pat and Troods doing a runner withLookout's pension bookthe donations. Maybe JB Campaign Ltd not-for-profit doesn't meet the criteria and needs changing or dissolving and restructuring.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/confirmation-statement/confirmation-statement
https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/expertise/charities/
Troods what happened to your weekly vlogs? Any chance of an Easter Special? 8)--)) 8)-))) 8(*( *&*%£ 8((()*/
Will this do instead?... http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/)
They were supposed to file in CS in December - I imagine they have had reminders, silly to leave it so long where they are in danger of having the company dissolved.
I've no idea and I don't particularly care. What do you think might have happened?
Will this do instead?... http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/)
Like you, I have no idea but you think they would have put some kind of explanation on the OS or Twitter to stop any speculation. To be fair, this isn't anything to do with Jeremy Bamber but his name is associated with it.
I guess they didn't count on being watched!
Troods do let us know, soon please 8((()*/
I think it's a two way thing 8(0(*
Sad whichever way you look at it.
JB knows my views on all this personal stuff. I blame those who post it up on www on JB's behalf - completely misguided imo.
Anything seen to come from JB needs to be factual, accurate and relevant to his claims of a MoJ.
Oh god! I read that the other night, didn't have the stomach to post a link. There should be a vomit emoticon!
Ode to spring ....... Blaaaagh!
Looks like their is there is some difficulty with JB Campaign Limited with Companies House currently listing a potential strike-off.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616
Nothing like a bit of soft soap to bring in the wonga.
Perhaps explains why I've never received a Christmas card from JB. 8)><(
I agree Caroline. It has always been about him, no remorse whatsoever for his murderous deeds. How he dares to mention his mother after what he did to her indicates a very disturbed individual imo.
A reprieve! @)(++(* 8((()*/
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09883616/filing-history
Phew that's a relief!
Same old, same old drivel... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWp1MCkzKSk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWp1MCkzKSk)
Same old, same old drivel... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWp1MCkzKSk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWp1MCkzKSk)
Yet more character assassination and bollocks from Bamber's campaign team...
... as well as a brush-off to them from Essex Police, and rightly so... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_AMpl4jeqWkMkxGSnVyczN0OEk/view (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_AMpl4jeqWkMkxGSnVyczN0OEk/view)
OMG!!!... a veritable dearth of case analysis here. When all else fails recruit some clueless upper-crusty who thinks that Nevill rang at "maybe 5am", and lie-detectors are "absolutely considered to be honest and correct"! An utterly dreadful video, so no wonder that comments are disabled...
Tch. See what happens when you pour sherry on your All-Bran?I upticked that one, She is everythingTeresa May is not. Honest inquiring and determined. May is in a position to fix this grotesque miscarriage, with luck she will be kicked down the road soon and a rational being takes over and issues instructions.
&%&£(+
I upticked that one, She is everythingTeresa May is not. Honest inquiring and determined. May is in a position to fix this grotesque miscarriage, with luck she will be kicked down the road soon and a rational being takes over and issues instructions.
The buck stops with those who run the country.
Honest!!? Inquiring!!? Sounds more like she gorged on a whole packet of Nutty Sherried Wheat!This case is an abscess that needs draining fast. Even you can see that, it is so far from settled. It stinks to high heaven and impedes David Bain's situation. He changed his name and went to Australia to escape the vitriol piled on an Innocent Man.
Don't you think May has much more important priorities... such as the removal of acres of Reynobond from countless tower blocks across the UK?
Honest!!? Inquiring!!? Sounds more like she gorged on a whole packet of Nutty Sherried Wheat!
Don't you think May has much more important priorities... such as the removal of acres of Reynobond from countless tower blocks across the UK?
OMG!!!... a veritable dearth of case analysis here. When all else fails recruit some clueless upper-crusty who thinks that Nevill rang at "maybe 5am", and lie-detectors are "absolutely considered to be honest and correct"! An utterly dreadful video, so no wonder that comments are disabled...
That's bad - and that's bad bad, not bad good!
Oh dear! Doesn't come across as being said with a great degree of sobriety. Perhaps it was the amount of Dutch courage, necessary to tell it, which caused the wrong story to be related?
Hence the reason for her Double-Dutch... hic!, hic!! The more I watch it the funnier and more ludicrous it becomes.
Nope... their campaign is definitely on a downward spiral into the abyss and forever may it remain there.
Message for Clappedout.....
PLEASE stop killing the blue forum. I've been out on the lash with my new mate Lady Di Watersquirter, (what a raver!!) and I want something to read and laugh at.
Selfish. ?8)@)-)
And a few helpful notes for you, Clappy know-nowt.
You are completely wrong about the telephone thing. i might not be as old as you (I'm not bloody Methusula) but I remember how it was in the 80's.
In the 80's, there was no way to find "glove prints." Not everyone wore mittens made out of Big-Foot wool.
Nobody cares that you popped next door and annoyed the medics trying to save your neighbour. I had a neighbour like you once, and I used to lob slugs over the fence. And pretended to be out when they knocked on to beg for milk and teabags.
Keep on doing what you do, Clappy. You're helping Bamber so much!!
It is a fallacy to imagine a vast operation.
The machinery of public and media gullibility affords huge credibility to one rogue operand.
We know the mantle scratches occurred after the crime scene was photographed yet they prove a struggle before the crime scene was photographed.
There is no evidence that proves the mantle scratches were done after there is simply the allegation which was thoroughly rejected by the courts as mere speculation.The scratches occurred by dragging. The scratches were not there when the bodies were discovered, they were planted. This in itself proves nothing, because (noble) cause corruption is commonplace. I remember the day the police discovered the cartridge case Inspector Bruce Hutton planted to create evidence against Arthur Allan Thomas. This does not prove his innocence, other evidence does.
The scratches occurred by dragging. The scratches were not there when the bodies were discovered, they were planted. This in itself proves nothing, because (noble) cause corruption is commonplace. I remember the day the police discovered the cartridge case Inspector Bruce Hutton planted to create evidence against Arthur Allan Thomas. This does not prove his innocence, other evidence does.
Just because no one noticed the scratches isn't proof that they weren't there.April: The crime scene photos include the mantlepiece, and require attention. Don't be suckered by this nonsense, concentrate on other evidence to help your friends here.
It is a fallacy to imagine a vast operation.
The machinery of public and media gullibility affords huge credibility to one rogue operand.
We know the mantle scratches occurred after the crime scene was photographed yet they prove a struggle before the crime scene was photographed.
Why do you always say "We know this, that and the other..." when what you really mean is "I mistakenly think..."?Myster:
Myster:
I communicate with organisations that see these patterns of malfeasance and injustice all the time. You are a young man in relativistic terms, and your greatest achievement will now rest on helping get Jeremy Bamber out of jail.
Then you should join his phony propaganda-spreading campaign (or some other favourite) to lobby the government and see how far that gets you, because flattery about age or potential ilfluence won't result in any volte-face by me. Better still, team up with Holly, more sensible and intelligent, although mistaken... if you can find out where she's disappeared to.The only point in posting on these message boards is to spread unease about wrongful convictions. No one would respond if they regarded the matter as correctly settled, and this one is not. Raw intelligence is irrelevant, because a limited application of whatever one possesses finds insuperable problems for the prosecution to overcome in Bamber.
The only point in posting on these message boards is to spread unease about wrongful convictions. No one would respond if they regarded the matter as correctly settled, and this one is not. Raw intelligence is irrelevant, because a limited application of whatever one possesses finds insuperable problems for the prosecution to overcome in Bamber.
Release him, he is innocent. Holly is on holiday.
The only point in posting on these message boards is to spread unease about wrongful convictions. No one would respond if they regarded the matter as correctly settled, and this one is not. Raw intelligence is irrelevant, because a limited application of whatever one possesses finds insuperable problems for the prosecution to overcome in Bamber.
Release him, he is innocent. Holly is on holiday.
Myster:
I communicate with organisations that see these patterns of malfeasance and injustice all the time. You are a young man in relativistic terms, and your greatest achievement will now rest on helping get Jeremy Bamber out of jail.
God, Samson, you are SO patronising. (That means talking down to someone).I have no idea, but that question does not steer us to a certainty that Jeremy was there.
Bearing in mind that you've managed to do to IA what Gary Glitter did to babysitting, shall we tackle one point at a time?
Why isn't the gun covered in Sheila's prints?
Since you admire my body of work on IA have you read the attempt by MikeG to get Nevill shot in the bedroom?
It doesn't work yet he won't concede.
I start with the plan, here is Jeremy's.
1. I want money now.
2. I will ride to the farm and shoot them all, and then persuade Sheila to lie down and be shot in a suicide compatible trajectory. She will be compliant because she knows if she resists I will just shoot her. Though this means either way she will realise she ends up dead, she is a bit gaga and won't object.
3. I will call home, then jump out the kitchen window, bang it shut so the latch drops, create a locked room murder mystery.
4. I will ride home and store the clothing to get rid of later in my own time. Despite the 5 corpses no one will suspect me so no worries about being found with forensic evidence.
What could possibly go wrong?
In my view this is the most preposterous nonsense, yet this is the crown theory.
The funny thing is when Mark Lundy allegedly did something similar, his car and belongings were immediately confiscated, in pursuit of evidence. None was found because he didn't do it. In a similar fashion, Jeremy would have expected his cottage to be a crime scene from the get go IF HE PLANNED THIS. if he did it he would seriously expect to be a suspect. You kill 5 people in a hare brained plan needing luck skill and compliance and seriously expect no one to suspect you? This is driving me demented trying to unravel the logic here that seems to work for you guilters.
If the bike was the only means of locomotion seize it get the dogs on the bike trail and so on. You have the plods being complete idiots.
You confirmed MikeG's theory with your own input here, which is that Nevill received a shot in his left arm from the rear, causing it to lift upwards by reflex action from the impact, while he was sitting on the edge of the bed and about to get up. The next shot to the top of his shoulder immediately afterwards would then tally with the pathologist's findings on its trajectory and of it having been fired from above. Although other ways are just as valid... such as Nevill leaning backwards, again while sat on the bed.
Not only the Crown's theory, but that of 99.99% of right-thinking people, which leaves only .01% on the lunatic fringe. The fledglings of Essex Police had more nous and common-sense than cock of the walk... which is why everything came right in the end.
Bamber was known to walk... forty miles home one time, after an argument with his sister in a car when he got out and marched off in a huff. So eight miles from cottage to farm and back would be a walkover.
He's being such a dick because he knows that the minute he shows everyone his carrot, they'll all laugh at it.
He's turned into a mini-Mike.
There is no blood on Nevills side of the bed. The blood on both the carpet samples and the sock was June Bambers. There is no plausible way for Neville to be shot inside the bedroom, given the trajectories. It became the crown's case because the defense never challenged the crowns assumption.
If Jeremy walked, That is a 1 hour and 25 minutes walk back. Assuming Jeremy is going by the average daytime walking speed on a flat surface. Once you apply Naismith's rule/Aitken corrections you are looking at a 1 hour and fifty-five minute walk from WHF back to Goldhanger. Making Sheila's TOD over 8 hours from when the photos were taken. Proving his innocence even more.
Not to mention all the time it will take Jeremy to put the silencer away, construct his blood dam, put the coat over the mantle scratches and then climb outside to rearrange the items on the window seal before walking off.
Now, who is on "lunatic fringe"?.
There is no blood on Nevills side of the bed. The blood on both the carpet samples and the sock was June Bambers. There is no plausible way for Neville to be shot inside the bedroom, given the trajectories. It became the crown's case because the defense never challenged the crowns assumption.
If Jeremy walked, That is a 1 hour and 25 minutes walk back. Assuming Jeremy is going by the average daytime walking speed on a flat surface. Once you apply Naismith's rule/Aitken corrections you are looking at a 1 hour and fifty-five minute walk from WHF back to Goldhanger. Making Sheila's TOD over 8 hours from when the photos were taken. Proving his innocence even more.
Not to mention all the time it will take Jeremy to put the silencer away, construct his blood dam, put the coat over the mantle scratches and then climb outside to rearrange the items on the window seal before walking off.
Now, who is on "lunatic fringe"?.
The scratches occurred by dragging. The scratches were not there when the bodies were discovered, they were planted. This in itself proves nothing, because (noble) cause corruption is commonplace. I remember the day the police discovered the cartridge case Inspector Bruce Hutton planted to create evidence against Arthur Allan Thomas. This does not prove his innocence, other evidence does.
In fact in a similar vein as the photographs prove these scratches, that garden had been seive searched. I don't know how anyone can think a man with a shattered elbow shoulder and mouth engages in this nonsensical and mythical struggle, but let the hoax continue...
There's nothing wrong with getting your husband to give you a pearl necklace, guzzling 2 bottles of Tudor Rose, getting comfy and talking a load of crap. (I usually wait until after lunch, though.)
Were there any flats, as in dwellings, in Goldhanger in 1985? Current population 654. Rural essex mid 80's I doubt the place had any flats. In any event JB lived in a cottage (house) and anyone familiar with the basics will be aware of this fact.
My ears also pricked up when I heard that! Just shows how some people from the "Jeremy is innocent because he's... errm, innocent" campaign are incapable of simple research.
Bourtree was as far removed from a flat as you can get, and had a ginormous back garden for growing weed to send to Hamish Mctavish/McDonald or some other dopehead in Scotland...
It is worrying when simple facts are overlooked. So much of the literature refers to JB's cottage and an upstairs and downstairs.
Lady Waterlow please see me for some extra tution 8((()*/ As an aside I see you were a director at SIB and a NED at Bankhall. I worked in financial services for some 25 years so we have something in common.
We've been tagether nah for 25 years, an' it don't seem a doy too much,
There ain't a lady livin' in this land as oid swap fer me dear ol' Dutch.
Fancy giving us a rendition of that great old Albert Chevalier song while you're free, APRIL?
Happy to oblige. Myster. Not my usual thing, but I'm nothing if not versatile!! However, "tagether" will need changing to "tagevver" @)(++(* @)(++(*
The naivety of the the uninformed.... https://raconteursnews.com/podcasts/ (https://raconteursnews.com/podcasts/)
'Jeremy Bamber Campaigners Trudi Benjamin & Yvonne Hartley Join Jason Holmes on RN Raconteurs News is Delighted to welcome Back Trudi and Yvonne to Update us on The Jeremy Bamber Campaign. This is the year we are going to be bringing down the corrupt system'.
If they are going to bring down the corrupt system this year, they need to get a move on. It's already September.
The podcast is over 2 hours so won't listen to it.The only summary needed, Adam... It was an extremely tiresome two hour dirge of little more than repetitive "errms" and "you knows" with no serious analysis of the case on show.
If anyone was able to face it, be good to get a summary.
@)(++(*
What happened to the old bird with the pearls, who was off her tits on sherry? I liked her!!
The only summary needed, Adam... It was an extremely tiresome two hour dirge of little more than repetitive "errms" and "you knows" with no serious analysis of the case on show.
The podcast is over 2 hours so won't listen to it.
If anyone was able to face it, be good to get a summary.
Yvonne said donate £5 it's only the cost of a bottle of wine or fish and chips! Definitely from the North! Thankfully there's an 'or' in there and not an 'and'!
The only summary needed, Adam... It was an extremely tiresome two hour dirge of little more than repetitive "errms" and "you knows" with no serious analysis of the case on show.
That doesn't round it down much.
Apparently it costs £150 each time an expert examines a finding? Point is though, has anything of substance ever been found bearing in mind that our pal Tesko over on blue has been trying for years to do just that?
I've just had a squiz through what's left of the blue forum, and found Roch saying "the endgame is nigh."
I've been reading this for the last 6 years now, and still Bamber's playing hide the sprout with Mick Philpott.
Message to Nelly....why is the approbation of a couple of old lady fruitcakes more important to you than the truth, what actually happened, and your own integrity? Am I the only one to see through your bluster?
Apparently, Mike's managed to knacker his own forum with a sort of bullshit-overload. Nelly thinks it might have been the KGB and Clappy's lost both of her PMs. Oh calamity. I'll miss it if it goes, but then again, I miss being pregnant, and that was 9 months of heartburn, no booze and piles. 8(8-))
The only positive action Mike has taken to assist JB is making the forum available and uploading docs. Apart from this he has been an unmitigated disaster and an absolute disgrace. His lies harm JB eg JB telling him June had a black eye when he left WHF when JB claims the opposite and Dr Vanezis said the bruising was caused by GSW. This is just one example of his lies. In addition to the lies the guy is a a complete fantasist.
Justice Callinan who assessed DB's claim for compensation said this about DB's greatest advocate Joe Karam:
"The conclusion that I reach will obviously be a disappointment to the Applicant. It would surprise me if it were any less so to Mr Karam. I pay tribute to the intelligence, resourcefulness, energy, skill, time, effort and money that he has invested in his crusade to establish the Applicant's innocence. I doubt whether the best and most highly trained and qualified legal advocates could have done more.
Point 406.
https://admin.beehive.govt.nz/sites/all/files/Ian%20Callinan%20Report.pdf
The complete opposite of Mike Tesko.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Karam
Poor Mike. Instead of making videos on his sister's toilet, he should get a job at B & Q. If the one by us is anything to go by, they will literally employ anyone.
I don't actually think the general public are interested in what the JB campaign do or say
And anyone with a modicum of common sense wouldn't take what they say as "verbatim" especially legal beagles; including the CCRC & COA who will already be familiar with the actual statements made all those years ago
It's a fruitless exercise and a bias one at that
Maybe Jeremy Bamber should tell his campaign team what he did with the clothes he was wearing that night and point them to where he disposed of anything linked to the murders - presuming he did of course?
SH apparently dumped his clothing in an industrial bin at a company he used to work for in Colchester. Bamber, like SH, had plenty of time to dispose of anything incriminating before his arrest.
Jerey Bamber burned his parents clothes in the farm fire pit - it's a possible source of other evidence.
Do you know I thought that when I watched the Natalie Gray news article
http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2015-08-10/the-bamber-killings-30-years-on-part-2/
Bamber burned his parents clothes the week after the murders. The fire mentioned in the video happened the day after the murders but Bamber didn't return to WHF until the following week where he gathered various items of his parents belongings onto and old trailer and had them burned in the farm fire pit..
So he had ample opportunity to also destroy clothing or other items he was wearing when he murdered his family, like for example gloves
He could have hidden them in a field or out building or anywhere away from WHF and his place, then went back for them before he returned to WHF a week after he'd murdered to burn his parents clothing - which in itself is questionable
Bamber burned his parents clothes the week after the murders. The fire mentioned in the video happened the day after the murders but Bamber didn't return to WHF until the following week where he gathered various items of his parents belongings onto and old trailer and had them burned in the farm fire pit..
All victims sustained multiple gsw's in their nightwear as found. What evidential value do you think day clothes in wardrobes/drawers may have held?
What was JB supposed to do with victims' clothes? Don't think charity shops/recycling were available then.
According to AE DS Jones removed items belonging to SC (dress? shoes?) and said 'you haven't seen this'. Then there was the blood stained clothes soaking in buckets destroyed by AE. The drugs found in the safe, which the relatives thought was cannabis resin, were destroyed. Why didn't the relatives hand the substance found at soc to EP?
More importantly forensic exhibits which the police were duty bound to retain indefinitely were destroyed. The COA took a dim view of this:
165. In February 1996, the Essex police destroyed many of the original trial exhibits without reference to the appellant or his legal representatives. It might have been necessary for this court to examine the circumstances in which this had happened. The police officer responsible contended that it was done without his appreciating that there was any on-going legal process that might require the further use of the exhibits. However, during argument it was agreed that the court could protect the appellant's position by making assumptions in his favour and that, therefore, it was unnecessary to resolve precisely how this came about.
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
Fast forward from 1996 and today new forensic techniques could almost certainly conclude the case:
CETRA would reveal whose fingerprints on the casings:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UwiHV7nnG8g
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DlVhSCu1sSE
DNA testing SC's nightdress would confirm the absence or presence of victims' blood other than her own.
Are you saying there were no charity shops in 1985? I find that hard to believe. However, getting rid of my parents clothes would have been the last thing on my mind week after their murder. When my dad died in 2009, I gave most of his clothes to charity, I kept his favourite a jacket (which I still have) - anything that couldn't be reused, I did bin. From the description in CAL's book, Jeremy had a trailer 'piled high' - it is initself pretty callous however, it's not really the fact that he burned them, it's the opportunity that it gave him to destroy other evidence. If he did have evidence to get rid of, you have to admit, it would have been the 'perfect' opportunity?
I can't recall the number of charity shops in '85 but they were certainly fewer in number than now. At least in the south anyway and I can't recall many in Manchester in the early/mid 80's. Today most people take stuff to charity shops or the relevant section at tips where I think clothes are recycled. How people deal with practical matters after death is IMO subjective. I could highlight AE going into the twins room to remake their beds in the days following the tragedy. Personally I would find this more difficult than throwing out victims' clothes.
I understand JB asked BW's son, Philip Wilson, to put a trailer under the first floor windows and items were thrown out of windows and taken to a pit used regularly on the farm to burn things. I can't see what evidence JB could destroy other than his own clothes if you believe him guilty. As far as I can see everything of evidential value was removed from WHF by soc officers eg bedding, carpet samples etc.
The trailer wasn't take straight to the pit, it was there for a while and what other things would Bamber need to destroy other than his own clothes?
By the way, I could make the beds - it's not destroying or removing anything. Looking at a stripped bed would be more of a reminder of what happened than looking at a made one.
I don't think the link I posted earlier includes JM's 'verbatim' testimony so here it is:
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness
Thanks to JaneJ on Blue for highlighting this.
It doesn't sound very 'verbatim'!
If you believe JB guilty what incriminating evidence could he destroy other than his clothes and footwear?
That would be incriminating! What else would you need?
If JB left blood stained clothes at WHF he was taking a huge risk. Likewise if he dumped them elsewhere then decided to recover later to take to WHF to destroy. Anyway there's no evidence the perp's clothes would contain any debris. GSR would be lost from movement and time delays. .22 rifle unlikely to deposit bloodstains on perp due to low velocity as evidenced by the fact there was no blood found on the rifle whereby the stains resembled high impact back spatter. And what little blood was present on rifle was unable to be grouped it was of such limited quantity. No footprints found either. Either JB or SC was responsible and whether they were bare footed or not they had to move around. Contrast the blood produced from the shotgun used in the Rettendon murders.
If JB left blood stained clothes at WHF he was taking a huge risk. Likewise if he dumped them elsewhere then decided to recover later to take to WHF to destroy. Anyway there's no evidence the perp's clothes would contain any debris. GSR would be lost from movement and time delays. .22 rifle unlikely to deposit bloodstains on perp due to low velocity as evidenced by the fact there was no blood found on the rifle whereby the stains resembled high impact back spatter. And what little blood was present on rifle was unable to be grouped it was of such limited quantity. No footprints found either. Either JB or SC was responsible and whether they were bare footed or not they had to move around. Contrast the blood produced from the shotgun used in the Rettendon murders.
I think it is beyond the bounds of possibilities to believe that a barefooted Sheila could have wandered all over the farmhouse shooting family members at will, fighting with her father over the kitchen table, walking on broken glass and blood yet end up with spotlessly clean uncut feet. Jeremy on the other hand would have had shoes or boots on which would have been disposed of afterwards.
Which of the two makes sense Holly?
He was taking a risk when he decided to murder his family. Criminals take risks, it's an occupational hazard.
There was blood smears on the rifle which would indicate that the 'perp' had blood on their person. It only takes a small splash of blood to link a perp to a crime and whether there would be evidence of not - the fire pit and the destruction of June and Nevil clothes, was an ideal time to destroy any clothing he may have wore.
I don't think the link I posted earlier includes JM's 'verbatim' testimony so here it is:
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/julie-mugford-volunteer-witness
Thanks to JaneJ on Blue for highlighting this.
It doesn't sound very 'verbatim'!
It seems Peter Tatchell has raised the issue of non-disclosure again on the back of Liam Allen's case:
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/dec/19/police-non-disclosure-should-lead-to-reform
It seems Peter Tatchell has raised the issue of non-disclosure again on the back of Liam Allen's case:
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/dec/19/police-non-disclosure-should-lead-to-reform
Tatchell is wrong but then again that is no real surprise. The CCRC have reviewed all the so-called withheld material and have not deemed it relevant. With Tatchell in his corner Bamber should be out by Easter. @)(++(*
I know the rough details of three new expert reports on three separate subjects that have never been brought forward before in the case that will be sent. I paid a visit to Jeremy’s legal team, making my own contribution to help make this happen.
So you can take back that comment about comparisons to an apocalyptic alien-contactee cult.
http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=195834#p195834
David perhaps you need to share your forensic evidence breakthrough with ITV? Or make another trip to JB's lawyers to discuss taking out an injunction against ITV? 8)-)))
I know the rough details of three new expert reports on three separate subjects that have never been brought forward before in the case that will be sent. I paid a visit to Jeremy’s legal team, making my own contribution to help make this happen.
So you can take back that comment about comparisons to an apocalyptic alien-contactee cult.
http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=195834#p195834
David perhaps you need to share your forensic evidence breakthrough with ITV? Or make another trip to JB's lawyers to discuss taking out an injunction against ITV? 8)-)))
Holly, if you have Netflix, watch a docu called The Staircase and listen to what the 'defense' forensic expert (Henry Lee) has to say about blunt trauma injury and blood spatter.
I imagine you are struggling to read the DM. If you can pick your way through that without blowing a gasket about its ill informed right wing bias I will be surprised!
DM?
Three panes across 8((()*/
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg19595#msg19595 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg19595#msg19595)
... or if you mean the box room at the front, three again...
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg19596#msg19596 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=633.msg19596#msg19596)
(ty6e[ back! V. busy these days elsewhere, so better enjoy a little gun yoga with Charlie while you can, just in case his rifle's loaded.
(ty6e[ 8**8:/:
I still love but just not as much as Charlie @ IA.
Anyway re above I don't think I explained myself very well.
There's an image in the public domain of a rifle in a window. The window has 4 small panes across as per main bedroom window. It's often said this image/window relates to the box room window ? but this can't be as the box room window is smaller with 3 panes across as you've pointed out.
I've just listened to the Peter Tatchell audio re non-disclosure of negs:
https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-withholding-of-crime-scene.html
The case against JB is essentially:
- Blood/silencer
- JM's testimony
- Whether NB made the call to JB
- Whether there's evidence SC carried out murders eg lead free hands, lack of debris on nightdress
I'm struggling to understand how any non-disclosed negs could realistically assist?
Also claims of the rifle in the box room window based on the image in the public domain doesn't seem to stack up as the window shows 4 small panes across as per main bedroom and the box room window is smaller.
The truth is out there somewhere if you only look for it, so I must have been wrong for thirty three years 8(8-)) ...
https://twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1032940785598189568 (https://twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1032940785598189568)
Well either that was a very old tweet or her maths are even worse than mine!!!!
David1819 uploaded the following to IA yesterday. If the CT have an "airtight" case they might want to share it with ITV or speak with JB's lawyers to look at the possibilities of imposing an injunction. I feel a Ronaldo wink coming on
8(0(* Yes there's an i in there 8(0(*
https://bambercampaign.blogspot.com/2018/06/the-latest-with-yvonne-on-forensic-work.html?m=1
Well, a lot has been happening in the last couple of months, and whilst I cannot be specific on the detail I wanted to share my positivity and excitement at what lies ahead in the coming weeks.
Firstly, your generosity has enabled a whole series of forensic tests to be conducted, all of which will assist Jeremy with the forthcoming application to the CCRC and then at the court of appeal. The scientists we have employed were shocked at the evidence they have looked at and will appear as expert witnesses if and when requested to do so. I still have seven more reports which are due to arrive in my in-box imminently.
There are several more forensic areas that I would like to approach in the long term, and I will keep you posted as we have the funds available to get these completed, so please keep donating if you can.
It may appear that things have been a little quiet on the legal front but nothing could be further from the truth. We have been actively and aggressively pushing forward with the disclosure issues and a host of legal approaches have been made, although unfortunately I cannot expand on these at this time, but what I can say is that the buzz this is creating is audible and I feel extremely confident and excited at the prospect of what will happen in the near future. We will not let the disclosure issues drop and will persist undeterred until full disclosure is achieved.
However, with the material we have had disclosed we have uncovered an astounding amount of evidence proving Jeremy’s innocence and are still, even at this stage, finding something new on almost a weekly basis.
We have been working tirelessly on the submissions to the CCRC, and in April Sarah and I visited Jeremy’s legal team at chambers in London, where several key areas of the wealth of submissions grounds that will form our application were discussed at length.
The final drafts of the submissions are complete and I am working with Jeremy every day fine-tuning them ready to be sent. There are lots of issues to address, and the preparation has taken us years of painstaking and time-consuming research and analysis, but we now have an airtight case in a multitude of areas. There is absolutely no question that when the CCRC have absorbed the information they will shortly be sent the case will be referred to the court of appeal.
It has been a long journey but I know that we will soon reach our destination and achieve justice for
Jeremy at last.
Watch this space for more exciting news coming very soon.
Yvonne
This deluded woman is at it again! Some idiots should never be allowed access to the internet...
https://twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1033653060424351744 (https://twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1033653060424351744)
This deluded woman is at it again! Some idiots should never be allowed access to the internet...
https://twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1033653060424351744 (https://twitter.com/lizyeld/status/1033653060424351744)
They are his ENABLERS
https://lovefraud.com/the-psychopaths-enablers/
There is no evidence WHATSOEVER that foster care was being discussed that night; only the word of a pathological liar -Jeremy Bamber
Indeed, there is NO evidence of anything alleged to have been said. Jeremy controlled whatever occurred from the time he was alone with the family at WHF until he met there with police circa 4am.
I recently spoke with Essex police about Bamber and I can assure everyone that they do not support the "assertions" being made by him or indeed those who support him!
Just to clarify, Steff. This is the confirmed position of the organization which is Essex Police, as opposed to the views of one or two of it's members?
Blimey, six thousand people have signed a petition in support of Bamber. Impressive.
Oooh, hang on a minute, what's this...…..?
SIXTY thousand (and rising) people have signed a petition in support of Albert, the Yorkshire Terrier with 4 teeth, who nipped a postman.
@)(++(* &^^&* 8((()*/
Well done, that Pugsie... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7qm3t3IU1U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7qm3t3IU1U)
Which dip$hit is responsible for this tripe? ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=v3wTSnY3z7k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=v3wTSnY3z7k)
... and that godawful music. Sorry, misnomer... atrocious din!
Sounding more like Jackie Preece every day, FACT! ... https://twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1040654271719636993 (https://twitter.com/jbcampaignltd/status/1040654271719636993)
Which dip$hit is responsible for this tripe? ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=v3wTSnY3z7k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=v3wTSnY3z7k)
... and that godawful music. Sorry, misnomer... atrocious din!
This reminds me of the time when Troods gave us her Fanny and constructed a magnificent chocolate cake (which certainly did NOT look like it came from Greggs) then, in her haste to sample it, only lit half of the candles. A definite milestone in the road towards Bamber's freedom, if a disappointingly backward step for Slimming World. 8(8-))When they loid and loid and loid and Johnnie made a shifty appearance...... on the pinny ~ Fanny at the AGA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPnbBdgUkkI)
I don't know why I'm giving this lot more publicity, but if you've nothing more important to do, such as watching Coronation Street...
https://twitter.com/tru68/status/1044658543826292736 (https://twitter.com/tru68/status/1044658543826292736)
http://raconteursnews.com/ (http://raconteursnews.com/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8XpTp_LAXo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8XpTp_LAXo) - not good! %56&Only 30 maximum watching! 8(8-)) What's all that BS messaging at the top right?
Only 30 maximum watching! 8(8-)) What's all that BS messaging at the top right?
Forty-eight minutes of absolute piffle.... I'm off to bed.
Only 30 maximum watching! 8(8-)) What's all that BS messaging at the top right?
A pathetic shamateurish performance by a bunch of incoherent babblers, and riddled with outrageous lies.
I don't know. But I know we don't know what we don't know, and it's strange that we know somethings but not other, isn't it? *%87 8)--))
A pathetic shamateurish performance by a bunch of incoherent babblers, and riddled with outrageous lies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8XpTp_LAXo - not good! %56&
What an utter load of dribble and tripe. With idiots like that on his case Bamber will surely be having porridge for many years to come.
Message to Trudi Benjamin. "Get a life Trudi, you are a laughing stock!!!"
Has anyone got a source that Bamber had a phone in his bedroom ?
Mike has said he did. I have asked them for a source, but was not supplied one. Mike usually provides sources but has not this time.
Hopefully hr didn't just say this because it was impossible for Bamber to reach the downstairs phone before the answering machine came on.
He didn't have a phone in his bedroom. Refer to you last sentence ......... he sais the answering machine wasn't on anyway.
Mike says Bamber would leave his answering machine on 24/7. Which 100% of other people would have done in 1985.
However Bamber managed to answer the downstairs phone before Nevill had left a message. Within 2/3 rings according to Mike. Which is impossible if he was upstairs sleeping 'like a log'.
Has anyone got a source that Bamber had a phone in his bedroom ?
Mike has said he did. I have asked them for a source, but was not supplied one. Mike usually provides sources but has not this time.
Hopefully hr didn't just say this because it was impossible for Bamber to reach the downstairs phone before the answering machine came on.
Referring to JB's interview with Daily Mirror by his own admission he only had one phone at his cottage which was downstairs by his kitchen door. It's a Myster and Holly combi 8(>((
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=6425sveims5eoah5ms645dpa37&topic=5723.msg202984#msg202984
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=6425sveims5eoah5ms645dpa37&topic=5723.msg203000#msg203000
Referring to JB's interview with Daily Mirror by his own admission he only had one phone at his cottage which was downstairs by his kitchen door. It's a Myster and Holly combi 8(>((Pity the Mirror have deleted that audio, although the text given is exactly what he said in the phone call. I'm sure I once uploaded the real thing to some now defunct audio hosting site, and it's also lost somewhere on one of my other hard drives. Mein Gott, I'm beginning to sound like Tesko!
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=6425sveims5eoah5ms645dpa37&topic=5723.msg202984#msg202984 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=6425sveims5eoah5ms645dpa37&topic=5723.msg202984#msg202984)
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=6425sveims5eoah5ms645dpa37&topic=5723.msg203000#msg203000 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=6425sveims5eoah5ms645dpa37&topic=5723.msg203000#msg203000)
Has anyone got a source that Bamber had a phone in his bedroom ?
Mike has said he did. I have asked them for a source, but was not supplied one. Mike usually provides sources but has not this time.
Hopefully hr didn't just say this because it was impossible for Bamber to reach the downstairs phone before the answering machine came on.
Pity the Mirror have deleted that audio, although the text given is exactly what he said in the phone call. I'm sure I once uploaded the real thing to some now defunct audio hosting site, and it's also lost somewhere on one of my other hard drives. Mein Gott, I'm beginning to sound like Tesko!
"Myster I am sure you will tell me, albeit very nicely, to stop being silly and there was no phone call 8)><( 8)><( 8)><( "
I think you've changed your mind since 2014 re. the above... only another four years to go before you change it about the rest. ?{)(**
Where's the evidence JB had an answering machine at his cottage pre tragedy? AE makes ref to the phone being situated between the kitchen and dining room. Apparently it had a long flex and enabled the user to move around the ground floor. She then talks about how long, in her opinion, it would take JB to reach ringing phone from upstairs:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2191
No mention of an answering machine.
It's always been accepted that he had an answer phone -indeed it would have been surprising if he hadn't- and that the police took it away. Whether or not such is fact.................?
Blood stains, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks all support NB sustaining his upstairs gsw's on the landing stairs and main stairs.For the attention of HG QC:
NB did not sustain any upstairs gsw's in the main bedroom nor did he use the tel after sustaining any gsw. NB made the tel call to JB from the kitchen and was then shot as he came up the stairs.
Mike said this last week -
'I remember vividly discussing this aspect of the investigation with Jeremy when I was incarcerated with him on B Wing at HMP Full Sutton on several occasions during late 1989 and July 1990...
Jeremy said that he answered his phone after two or three rings when his father called him that morning!
He said therefore the automatic recording mechanism on his answer phone did not get activated! As such there would have been no recording what his father said to him! He said he told the police that he had answered the phone call quickly.'
----------
Mike also said the answering machine was left on 24/7. Which is normal.
This means Nevill would not ring Bamber in the first place. Knowing he would only get an answering machine.
It also confirms no call was made as Bamber would not have even woken within the 10 seconds before the answering machine came on.
If Bamber was asleep when the phone rang, how would he know how many rings there had been?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=296.0
Bamber can't say he was already awake when the phone rang.
Page 15 he says he slept 'like a log' & he confirms he was 'awoken by Nevill's phone call'.
Everyone agrees that Bamber would not have got to the downstairs phone within 10 seconds.
Nevill would also not ring, knowing Bamber would be sleeping & had an answering machine.
For the attention of HG QC:
No they don't and no he didn't! We've been through this soooooooo many times before ad nauseum. Never in a million harvests would NB have twiddled his thumbs waiting minutes for his son to answer while his daughter was off upstairs mimicking Annie Oakley.
Rediscovered that Mirror audio interview. Ignore the crappy rapper at the end, no idea who he is or why he should keep following me about...
https://soundcloud.com/phil-garlic/tracks (https://soundcloud.com/phil-garlic/tracks)
... said Goodnight to everybody, got in my car, drove home. And I guess it was about 10pm by this time. I rang Julie... had a hot drink, I don't-I don't think I had anything to eat and I had a quick bath and watched TV 'till about midnight. At around 3.15/3.30 I was woken up by the phone and I only had one in my house and that was by the kitchen door downstairs. And when I answered it I recognised dad's voice and he said "Please come over... your sister has gone crazy and has the gun" .
The call ended, although, I don't recall specifically hearing the dial tone, but I was still half asleep, I'd only just woken up to hear this, and so I rang dad back 'cause I thought you know I need more information.. what, where, how, you know what do you need me to do, how can I... and I specifically remember getting the engaged tone because I then pressed the last number redial at least twice more and both times got the engaged tone... and that's when I rang the police.
For the attention of HG QC:
No they don't and no he didn't! We've been through this soooooooo many times before ad nauseum. Never in a million harvests would NB have twiddled his thumbs waiting minutes for his son to answer while his daughter was off upstairs mimicking Annie Oakley.
Rediscovered that Mirror audio interview. Ignore the crappy rapper at the end, no idea who he is or why he should keep following me about...
https://soundcloud.com/phil-garlic/tracks (https://soundcloud.com/phil-garlic/tracks)
... said Goodnight to everybody, got in my car, drove home. And I guess it was about 10pm by this time. I rang Julie... had a hot drink, I don't-I don't think I had anything to eat and I had a quick bath and watched TV 'till about midnight. At around 3.15/3.30 I was woken up by the phone and I only had one in my house and that was by the kitchen door downstairs. And when I answered it I recognised dad's voice and he said "Please come over... your sister has gone crazy and has the gun" .
The call ended, although, I don't recall specifically hearing the dial tone, but I was still half asleep, I'd only just woken up to hear this, and so I rang dad back 'cause I thought you know I need more information.. what, where, how, you know what do you need me to do, how can I... and I specifically remember getting the engaged tone because I then pressed the last number redial at least twice more and both times got the engaged tone... and that's when I rang the police.
Where did the bath suddenly come into it? In his first interview he goes into detail about the programmes he watched on TV and said he went to bed around 11PM - no mention of a bath and really no time to fit one in.
The audio also says he only had one phone. In the downstairs kitchen. Mike must have been mistaken when he said Bamber had a phone in his bedroom.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2939.msg104299.html#msg104299
This was posted a few years ago. The 'answering machine' in the list (page 4) must be Bamber's.
But the list contains all sorts of items which appear to belong to NB, June and SC and there's nothing to say where they were recovered from.
I think 1 or more of the books states one of the Greaves sisters left a message on an answering machine but I believe that was when JB was staying at SC's.
There's no evidence JB had an answering machine pre tragedy at Bourtree Cottage.
Reply 1133 has the required document.
Proof must be supplied that Bamber's answering machine was not working, and that Nevill knew this.
Otherwise guilt has to be accepted by everyone.
Holly will agree that it would take several minutes for Bamber to be 'awoken' from sleeping 'like a log', realise the 'downstairs' phone was ringing, decide to & go & answer it. However Bamber only had 10 seconds.
Holly will agree there is no benefit in Nevill leaving a message on an answering machine.
Don't forget to throw a closed door or two into the equation.
The following states the threshold noise level for waking at night is 42db. The sound of a phone ringing is put at 80 db.
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/202na3_en.pdf
http://chchearing.org/noise/common-environmental-noise-levels/
For those that don't have sleep problems it depends where in the sleep cycle you are as to how easy/difficult it will be for you to wake.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_eye_movement_sleep
No idea where the 10 seconds comes from?
The following states the threshold noise level for waking at night is 42db. The sound of a phone ringing is put at 80 db.
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/202na3_en.pdf
http://chchearing.org/noise/common-environmental-noise-levels/
For those that don't have sleep problems it depends where in the sleep cycle you are as to how easy/difficult it will be for you to wake.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_eye_movement_sleep
No idea where the 10 seconds comes from?
Yes, all those dreary misspent hours... farming in the Antipodes. 8((()*/
It's not impossible that his hearing was impaired from all those hours spent in the noisy tractor cab.
Don't forget to throw a closed door or two into the equation.
It's not impossible that his hearing was impaired from all those hours spent in the noisy tractor cab.
How would he wake, realise the phone was ringing, decide to answer it & get downstairs. Before Nevill had left his message ? Which would be within 5-10 seconds.
I would also imagine it depends where the source of the noise is, relative to the individual. Fine if bother were in the same room, not quite the same when they are separated by walls.
I'm sure we've all experienced occasions living with others where we've slept through ferocious thunderstorms and others haven't and vice-versa. I think the stage in sleep cycle will be the greater determinant as to whether one wakes as opposed to environmental noise levels. Do you remember sleep from your psychology course? REM and non-REM?
In the following it states it is difficult to wake from stages 3 and 4 of non-REM sleep and almost impossible to wake children from these stages which probably accounts for the fact June's head was on her pillow when first shot and the twins appear to have slept through.
Further evidence that the expert evidence at JB's trial was woeful in that the jury was taken to the shooting range to hear the difference in sound between a silenced rifle and non-silenced rifle but no thought was given to victims' sleep cycles.
https://www.tuck.com/stages/
Also to be taken into account is the emotional state of the victims. From what we know from Jeremy, everything in the garden seemed far from rosy. Did emotional exhaustion cause them to fall into deep sleep, or did family problems, which may have come to a head, leave them bereft of sleep, or afford them such light sleep that they were primed and instantly alert to the smallest sound. Given that Sheila was about to spend her penultimate day at WHF, might it be possible that she was more relaxed that night than at any time since arriving?
JB said when he left "No one appeared distressed and everyone appeared happy":
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5631.0
Those suffering from schizophrenia apparently suffer from a deficit in sleep spindles which occur during phase 3 which is considered deep sleep and difficult to wake from as per link above.
https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2010.09121731
... and/or evict him from Bourtree to make way for Sheila.
... and/or evict him from Bourtree to make way for Sheila.
Jeremy needs a 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.
Hopefully David creates another 'forensic evidence breakthrough' thread soon.
The CT will be waiting for the forthcoming TV series. Millions of people will watch it giving the case more publicity.
The CT will then resurface. Firstly to deny anything negative from the series, secondly to annonce new apparent developments.
During the TV series, the media & public will be more interested in the case & the CT may get some more supporters.
Until then hopefully Mike will release his planned silencer Youtube video. Or David finds another 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.
The CT will be waiting for the forthcoming TV series. Millions of people will watch it giving the case more publicity.
The CT will then resurface. Firstly to deny anything negative from the series, secondly to annonce new apparent developments.
During the TV series, the media & public will be more interested in the case & the CT may get some more supporters.
All Tesko has to do is find "that photo" and prove that he's not Barry Bullshit from Barnsley.
8((()*/
Mike said he has passed the photo of Sheila on the bed to his legal advisors.
He said he sent it to Jeremy and that it was confiscated.
He said he sent it to Jeremy and that it was confiscated.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7566.msg357067.html#msg357067
He told me he had passed it to his legal advisors. Then was a big vague when I asked for an update.
Be surprised if the CT team have had it for all these years & kept it quiet.
Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀 Retweeted
Jeremy Bamber
@JBamberFacebook
In the news today Essex police officers are jailed for forging documents and for dishonesty. The names of the corrupt officers in #JeremyBamber case are known and they will be held accountable for their actions.
(link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-48228167) bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan…
@jbcampaignltd
@Bambertweets
'Lazy' child abuse detectives jailed
Sharon Patterson and Lee Pollard ditched work and faked forms while carrying out investigations.
bbc.co.uk
5:07 PM · May 10, 2019 · Twitter for Android
Hannah
@hannahjames40
1h
Replying to
@JBamberFacebook
@jbcampaignltd
and
@Bambertweets
Whilst we loathe such activity, the main question is to ask WHY?
I wonder if contempt from CPS might play a part in looking at the evidence. CPS, Police and governments could all hold bad feeling against each other to a certain degree, because of austerity and other elements.
Hannah
@hannahjames40
1h
I have raised these concerns before. I have no time for misconduct or stitch-ups.
Like when the police decided to go after alleged abusers as far back as the 80's. These people were in public since (without committing abuse) Then, the police come along and cart them off to jail.
Hannah
@hannahjames40
1h
What's the point of open prisons for murderers? It is about gaining trust. Right? Years without criminality should count for something, with such a serious crime?
As for all of you conspiracy turds, some of you do more harm than the ones you complain about.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JBamberFacebook/status/1126881356619886592
Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀 Retweeted
Jeremy Bamber
@JBamberFacebook
In the news today Essex police officers are jailed for forging documents and for dishonesty. The names of the corrupt officers in #JeremyBamber case are known and they will be held accountable for their actions.
(link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-48228167) bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan…
@jbcampaignltd
@Bambertweets
'Lazy' child abuse detectives jailed
Sharon Patterson and Lee Pollard ditched work and faked forms while carrying out investigations.
bbc.co.uk
5:07 PM · May 10, 2019 · Twitter for Android
4
Retweets
4
Likes
Hannah
@hannahjames40
·
1h
Replying to
@JBamberFacebook
@jbcampaignltd
and
@Bambertweets
Whilst we loathe such activity, the main question is to ask WHY?
I wonder if contempt from CPS might play a part in looking at the evidence. CPS, Police and governments could all hold bad feeling against each other to a certain degree, because of austerity and other elements.
1
Hannah
@hannahjames40
·
1h
I have raised these concerns before. I have no time for misconduct or stitch-ups.
Like when the police decided to go after alleged abusers as far back as the 80's. These people were in public since (without committing abuse) Then, the police come along and cart them off to jail.
1
Hannah
@hannahjames40
·
1h
What's the point of open prisons for murderers? It is about gaining trust. Right? Years without criminality should count for something, with such a serious crime?
As for all of you conspiracy turds, some of you do more harm than the ones you complain about.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JBamberFacebook/status/1126881356619886592
Not this piffle again! https://twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/1144568140053045249 (https://twitter.com/Bambertweets/status/1144568140053045249) @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*Better ask Eleanor... she knows the truth about it. 8(8-))
Better ask Eleanor... she knows the truth about it. 8(8-))
BTW... You got $285 to spare to go towards the fighting fund? Have a Happy Day!...
https://www.murderauction.com/auction/listing/jeremy-bamber-handwritten-2p-letter-with-original-envelope-signed-jeremy-from-2007/70199 (https://www.murderauction.com/auction/listing/jeremy-bamber-handwritten-2p-letter-with-original-envelope-signed-jeremy-from-2007/70199)
Better ask Eleanor... she knows the truth about it. 8(8-))
BTW... You got $285 to spare to go towards the fighting fund? Have a Happy Day!...
https://www.murderauction.com/auction/listing/jeremy-bamber-handwritten-2p-letter-with-original-envelope-signed-jeremy-from-2007/70199 (https://www.murderauction.com/auction/listing/jeremy-bamber-handwritten-2p-letter-with-original-envelope-signed-jeremy-from-2007/70199)
Super sleuth?
Yer. Course you can. But I have to say that I'm not known for my sanity.
Some of the comments posted on the Bamber official website by lawyers who in theory should know better.
Flo Krause (LLB Sheffield)
(http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/_/rsrc/1449855108189/patrons-and-supporters/flo_krause.jpg?height=200&width=200) (http://www.meritzchambers.co.uk/images/flo-krause_meritz-chambers.jpg)
A leading Barrister working in Human Rights Law. Flo says, "There was never any direct evidence in this case, no motive was ever established and even psychology cannot identify any factor in Jeremy's profile that could help understand why he might have done it. If ever a reasonable doubt existed, this must be the case for it." (Flo is not Jeremy's legal representative).
Diana Lady Waterlow JP
(https://ugotalksalot.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/no-thumb.jpg)
As a Magistrate for 42 years and the Director of the SFA Regulatory City Board for 16 years, Diana says, "Having studied all the evidence at great length, also looking for a possible motive; I find that Jeremy is certainly innocent; we must all work to rectify this terrible injustice."
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/patrons-and-supporters
J B Campaign Ltd
Company No 09883616 Incorporated 23rd November 2015
Directors Patrick and Trudi Benjamin
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/09883616/J-B-CAMPAIGN-LTD/directors-secretaries
(http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/_/rsrc/1450295412170/directors-and-management-team/Trudi%20Benjamin%202.jpg?height=320&width=247)
I am very pleased to announce the launch of The JB Campaign Limited, which is a ‘Not For Profit’ Private Limited Company. Having thought long and hard about the campaign to keep Jeremy’s case in the public domain and the issues that need resolving to get traction on an Appeal, the only conclusion was that we needed to be able to raise money. Supporters often ask how they can make donations but in order to do this effectively and legitimately the decision was made by the campaign team to set up The Jeremy Bamber Campaign as a legal entity.
Our aim is to raise funds towards any legal or forensic costs not currently covered Pro Bono. There will be an opportunity for people to give cash using a donate button on the website, we will be offering opportunities for appropriate advertising, along with a range of merchandise. Other exciting projects are in the planning process and will be announced in due course.
I am very proud, alongside my husband Pat Benjamin, to be a Director of the organisation and we are delighted to be working with the Campaign Management Team to maintain a high standard of business and accounting practices. In accordance, with requirements by Companies House, all monies will be accounted for and annual accounts will be filed. The Directors and Management Team give their time and expertise for free.
The decision to generate revenue in this way was taken partly because of the denigration of legal aid and the funding crisis for prisoners such as Jeremy but also because of the outrage we feel at the continued wrongful conviction and 30-year loss of liberty of an innocent man. Our hope is that campaigners and supporters, who feel as we do, will give generously to help Jeremy gain the freedom he so richly deserves.
Please look at the “Management Team” (http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/directors-and-management-team) to find out more about who we are and the 'Operations' page to find out how we work.
Thank you.
Trudi Benjamin
Managing Director/Spokesperson
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/jb-campaign-ltd-and-directors
This organisation does not operate or support www.jeremybamberforum.co.uk and we nor Jeremy have any association with, or control over it.
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/about
1056
Some of the comments posted on the Bamber official website by lawyers who in theory should know better.
Flo Krause (LLB Sheffield)
(http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/_/rsrc/1449855108189/patrons-and-supporters/flo_krause.jpg?height=200&width=200) (http://www.meritzchambers.co.uk/images/flo-krause_meritz-chambers.jpg)
A leading Barrister working in Human Rights Law. Flo says, "There was never any direct evidence in this case, no motive was ever established and even psychology cannot identify any factor in Jeremy's profile that could help understand why he might have done it. If ever a reasonable doubt existed, this must be the case for it." (Flo is not Jeremy's legal representative).
Diana Lady Waterlow JP
(https://ugotalksalot.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/no-thumb.jpg)
As a Magistrate for 42 years and the Director of the SFA Regulatory City Board for 16 years, Diana says, "Having studied all the evidence at great length, also looking for a possible motive; I find that Jeremy is certainly innocent; we must all work to rectify this terrible injustice."
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/patrons-and-supporters
The CT will be waiting for the forthcoming TV series. Millions of people will watch it giving the case more publicity.
The CT will then resurface. Firstly to deny anything negative from the series, secondly to annonce new apparent developments.
During the TV series, the media & public will be more interested in the case & the CT may get some more supporters.
Until then hopefully Mike will release his planned silencer Youtube video. Or David finds another 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.
Eric Allison appears to have interviewed Flo Krause in June 2016, the header of his article in the Guardian reads,
‘Flo Krause: Legal aid cuts have forced me out of my career at the bar’
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/29/flo-kraus-prison-barrister-legal-aid-cuts-access-to-justice
Newby and Co. pissing in the wind...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction)
Newby and Co. pissing in the wind...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction)
Newby and Co. pissing in the wind...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction)
Trudi Benjamin states:You know what I think? Sheila's head was initially propped up against the bedside cabinet and the second fatal upper wound wasn't visible at that stage, but the first was, giving the impression that she'd only been shot once. To get a closer examination, her head was then turned at that awkward angle away from the cabinet as shown in the main crime scene photo, and perhaps her body was also pulled down to assist in this. The fatal wound is smudged and this appears to be mirrored, as if the her neck skin at that point was folded over on itself when her head was jammed against the cabinet.
Jeremy Bamber
@JBamberFacebook
BREAKING NEWS
Brand new, exclupatory evidence has been released to
@guardian
This dispels the myth regarding Sheila's gunshot injuries.
Thank you to
@shattenstone
and
@allison_eric
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction (https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction)…
@Bambertweets
@JBamberFacebook
@FreeBamberNow
https://mobile.twitter.com/JBamberFacebook/status/1227288010313666560 (https://mobile.twitter.com/JBamberFacebook/status/1227288010313666560)
Courtesy of Mike Tesco http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8281.0.html (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8281.0.html)
“The evidence that cops Shot Sheila Caffell downstairs in the kitchen and mistakenly thought she had been killed, before her body becoming displaced upstairs on top of the bed, then moved to the bedroom floor after being officially pronounced dead by police surgeon, Dr Craig at 8.44am she only sporting what appeared to be a gunshot wound to her throat by that stage, that the second shot she sustained was inflicted after 8.44am once her body was removed to the bedroom floor and the only rifle present upstairs which was resting at a first floor box room window where it had remained since around 7.15am, was brought to Sheila's body for gauging purposes and 'informatives' without it being checked or made safe!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 11:57:AM by mike tesko »
Newby and Co. pissing in the wind...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction)
You know what I think? Sheila's head was initially propped up against the bedside cabinet and the second fatal upper wound wasn't visible at that stage, but the first was, giving the impression that she'd only been shot once. To get a closer examination, her head was then turned at that awkward angle away from the cabinet as shown in the main crime scene photo, and perhaps her body was also pulled down to assist in this. The fatal wound is smudged and this appears to be mirrored, as if the her neck skin at that point was folded over on itself when her head was jammed against the cabinet.
You know what I think? Sheila's head was initially propped up against the bedside cabinet and the second fatal upper wound wasn't visible at that stage, but the first was, giving the impression that she'd only been shot once. To get a closer examination, her head was then turned at that awkward angle away from the cabinet as shown in the main crime scene photo, and perhaps her body was also pulled down to assist in this. The fatal wound is smudged and this appears to be mirrored, as if the her neck skin at that point was folded over on itself when her head was jammed against the cabinet.
Newby and Co. pissing in the wind...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/11/jeremy-bamber-lawyers-say-new-evidence-undermines-conviction)
The Guardian are pathetic for publicising this desperate crap. What’s the suggestion- there was only one wound on first examination and then the police (or family) shot her again by accident - like you do.
Only one visible gunshot wound was discussed here about 2 years ago:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9438.msg459087#msg459087
What it does show is that SC was moved at soc between first respondents finding her and soc images taken. Certainly not a get out of jail card but a formidable appeal point.
No it doesn't, if her head was propped against the bedside table and Craig examined her, it may have just called to one side. As one conspiracy closes, another opens.
Holly you claimed Aunt Agatha would have needed a gun licence
Aunt Agatha stated:
Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #737 on: April 13, 2016, 09:25:PM »
I do understand where you're coming from.
This was all a very long time ago - he gave me loads of things.
The police arrived with rifle, wetsuit, camera, all granny's paperwork and granny's handmade box, and over the years he's made many things for me.
Paintings (numerous), books, cassette tapes...and more.
Must find that watch! It's not where I thought it would be. Hmm!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358280.html#msg358280
So did she have a gun licence?
More importantly why did Bamber allegedly hand out exhibits seemingly from his murder trial?
When I asked her,‘Why didn't the police process the film in his camera?’
She replied,
‘I have no idea. Why give me a rifle? I don't know!’
What rifle was it and why give it to AA?
I asked her,
Didn't you ask them why?
Her reply,
No. We were stunned that they even agreed to give them in the first place. Once I had received them we never mentioned them in writing (I don't think). Maybe they overlooked it....I really don't know and I was not going to ask.
Something else Bamber allegedly told AA,
“Based on what we knew at the beginning we believed the silencer was used........upon revelations he changed his mind. When we last spoke he believed the silencer was not used.”
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358367.html#msg358367
Were some of the items Bamber handed out to AA exhibits at one time?
My understanding is that all exhibits have been destroyed apart from rifle and silencer which can be found in EP's museum.
AA has said in the past she received JB's wetsuit which I understand was examined by EP although I haven't seen any formal docs to this effect. I don't believe AA received anything which was included in trial.
Maybe it was a low powered air rifle from JB's cottage that didn't require a licence.
See the link in the following about firearms that don't require a licence.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11187.msg570644#msg570644
Maybe it was a low powered air rifle from JB's cottage that didn't require a licence.
See the link in the following about firearms that don't require a licence.
Holly you claimed Aunt Agatha would have needed a gun licence
Aunt Agatha stated:
Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #737 on: April 13, 2016, 09:25:PM »
I do understand where you're coming from.
This was all a very long time ago - he gave me loads of things.
The police arrived with rifle, wetsuit, camera, all granny's paperwork and granny's handmade box, and over the years he's made many things for me.
Paintings (numerous), books, cassette tapes...and more.
Must find that watch! It's not where I thought it would be. Hmm!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358280.html#msg358280
So did she have a gun licence?
More importantly why did Bamber allegedly hand out exhibits seemingly from his murder trial?
When I asked her,‘Why didn't the police process the film in his camera?’
She replied,
‘I have no idea. Why give me a rifle? I don't know!’
What rifle was it and why give it to AA?
I asked her,
Didn't you ask them why?
Her reply,
No. We were stunned that they even agreed to give them in the first place. Once I had received them we never mentioned them in writing (I don't think). Maybe they overlooked it....I really don't know and I was not going to ask.
Something else Bamber allegedly told AA,
“Based on what we knew at the beginning we believed the silencer was used........upon revelations he changed his mind. When we last spoke he believed the silencer was not used.”
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358367.html#msg358367
There’s no need to speculate Holly when Aunt Agatha is capable of answering; as is Bamber.
Where did the alleged rifle originate from?
She was handed a wetsuit as well apparently and a Cartier watch that she claimed was an original - where did that come from?
This creates problems for Bamber and his solicitor Mark Newby, especially given the fact he’s publicly claimed Bamber’s narrative has stayed the same. Aunt Agatha clearly states Bamber claimed to once believe ‘the silencer was used.’
And given Bamber is allegedly godparent to her children the problems get bigger - there will be a record of this
Sorry, my mistake - it was more to do with having EP investigated re: the destruction of material. The CCRC were 'apparently' willing to investigate why exhibits had been destroyed (at their expense) but Jeremy declined the offer.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,514.0.html
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,514.0.html
It's not speculation Nicholas. The police obviously would not hand over a firearm that required a licence to someone who didn't have one. To do so would be a criminal offense.
The police probably seized many items from JB's cottage which were subsequently found to be of no interest to the investigation. When the trial was over they were returned to JB who was not in a position to take ownership given he was detained at HMP therfore he made arrangements for AA to take ownership.
What year did Aunt Agatha say the police gave her these items?
AA has said in the past she received JB's wetsuit which I understand was examined by EP although I haven't seen any formal docs to this effect. I don't believe AA received anything which was included in trial.
What year did Aunt Agatha say the police gave her these items?
“Mike, please could you clarify when JB or his legal team were advised that evidence, in particular blood samples, were going to be or had been destroyed, as happened in 1996.
Likewise, in 2002 the CCRC displayed a willingness to use their powers to examine the full circumstances surrounding the destruction of evidence in 1996. JB instructed Turner QC to decline this offer to investigate. What reason has JB given for his decision?
In September he phoned me and said he and the Campaign Team wanted me to pay for the new forensics tests. He demanded I send him £4,000. Before answering "no" I asked him who the scientists were as I wanted to check out their credentials. He told me to mind my own business and just pay up. He said if I didn't have the funds available then I should take out a bank loan. He was very threatening and abusive. When I started getting upset he shouted at me "stop playing the F*****ng victim." I was so worried and concerned, I phoned the prison and discussed this call. For anyone out there who thinks I may be telling lies, the prison confirmed that this call was recorded and retained so I have the proof.
I had already arranged a visit for October and went as planned and intended to discuss this matter with him. He was quite unpleasant and told me he had never liked me and would never want me as a friend, along with other very hurtful remarks. He told me himself that he had sacked Simon McKay. I tried to talk some sense into him but he said "everyone plays to my tune or I dispose of them". That appears to have been a lie as Simon claims to still be working for him. I now realise I was there purely for the money. I didn't turn up for the afternoon visit.
Back home, I wrote to Jeremy telling him how devastated I was that our friendship was a complete farce on his behalf and I was heartbroken that I was forced to walk away from him. I have given him three months to reply and all I wanted was an apology and an explanation as to why he had lied to me for three years, pretending he was my friend. This is why I have decided to tell my story as I don't want anyone else to be hurt by Jeremy. I feel so guilty abandoning him but what choice did I have? Andrea and Goatboy have got it absolutely spot on when they say Jeremy uses and abuses friends and then tosses them aside. I feel desperately sorry for him.
I hear what you are saying Holly but there is a difference between offloading on friends and being controlling, manipulative and abusive. No one treats their friends like that. This is certainly not the way to behave if you claim to be a MOJ. Jeremy comes from a decent family and had an excellent education and should have been taught basic manners.
Also you say you would never become involved with a person in his position. Well, he is no different to the rest of us - he is just locked away. If we didn't become emotionally involved with our friends then we would all be robots!
When we look back at his life before and shortly after the murders he was described as arrogant and controlling. It seems he hasn't changed and is losing friends left right and centre. I have been to the highest level and take it from me MOJ or not, Jeremy is never ever going to be released.
In response to Bubbles35, I am afraid you know nothing. Jeremy betrayed us as he has so many other people when he used us and tossed our friendship aside. We went the extra mile and way beyond that to help him. Are you going to provide him with the funds as you obviously hold him in such high esteem?
It amazes me how people read what I have posted and then make up a lie to try and discredit me. Where, Alias have I said that I kept the copy of the document Jeremy sent me? He usually sent me copies to keep as I needed these to refer to when writing regularly to the Prime Minister and other Government departments. He wanted it returned swiftly as he had to send it on for someone else to read so I had little time to photocopy it.
Also, where has all this information come from regarding new submissions being made? Even his Campaign team have no knowledge of it. Jeremy is not going to the CCRC as they have such a backlog of work that they will take 5 or 6 years to consider his case. He does not want to wait that long so is going directly to the Court of Appeal.
Well said AA yes Simon Mckay was acutely embarrassed when he took a man's word who promised to fund the Danny Nightingale Appeal. The promise of a large sum was made and when Simon made contact for this to be paid, the man had disappeared. The company he claimed to work for had never heard of him. This is precisely the point I am making - do checks first before proceeding!! If an experienced lawyer can be "had" then Jeremy certainly can.
On the point of Jeremy's health he is not a well man. He has several serious health problems and is in constant pain. He has also lost a lot of weight (intentionally or not I don't kinow). Whatever our differences have been I feel he should be released on compassionate grounds
Holly you claimed the wetsuit was ‘examined by EP’
Holly you claimed the wetsuit was ‘examined by EP’
I also said I hadn't seen any formal docs to this effect but even it was examined by EP what point are you making?
I guess only if they were deemed relevant to the investigation. In any event clear rules surround exhibits exhibited at trial which isn't the case for items not not exhibited at trial.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/exhibits
As ever, Nicholas your thorough research is invaluable and shines a light into the dirty little corner that some of his cheerleaders inhabit. I'm still reeling from the suggestion from one of them that he be "released on compassionate grounds" some 6 years ago...
I was never wholly convinced that he wore a wetsuit on the night. We know he owned one but why keep it when he had so much time to dispose of it. In theory, yes he could have showered in it to wash blood and residue off, but being a porous and dark material he would need to have been thorough about that.
.
The idea he could or should be released on compassionate grounds is absurd. He will only be released on sound forensic evidence undermining the key plank of the prosecution case ie the blood/silencer.
What year did Aunt Agatha say the police gave her these items?Was it 2006
I see that June's bible was returned to her family in 2006
“Mike, please could you clarify when JB or his legal team were advised that evidence, in particular blood samples, were going to be or had been destroyed, as happened in 1996.
Likewise, in 2002 the CCRC displayed a willingness to use their powers to examine the full circumstances surrounding the destruction of evidence in 1996. JB instructed Turner QC to decline this offer to investigate. What reason has JB given for his decision?
The blood stained bible was handed back to relatives according to CAL. There is a document (I think posted by David) that suggests the bible was about to be destroyed but nothing to confirm it. There is a reference in CAL's book that states it was given back to relatives.
“It appears JB rejected a golden opportunity to (possibly) have the EP discredited by the CCRC.
The CCRC would have borne the costs as well - not to be sneezed at.
Had EP been proved to be disingenuous on this matter, the Commission may have allowed 'generous discretion' in viewing related grounds for Appeal.
The silence on this leads to other conspiracy theories - that JB wanted blood samples destroyed fearing DNA developments since 1985... etc.
So I think the matter should be addressed.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,514.msg9287.html?PHPSESSID=b0ec4j7f9nr92o1j9hnh1t20e6#msg9287
Had these exhibits not been destroyed against police protocol they would almost certainly either exonerate JB or seal his fate:
165. In February 1996, the Essex police destroyed many of the original trial exhibits without reference to the appellant or his legal representatives. It might have been necessary for this court to examine the circumstances in which this had happened. The police officer responsible contended that it was done without his appreciating that there was any on-going legal process that might require the further use of the exhibits. However, during argument it was agreed that the court could protect the appellant's position by making assumptions in his favour and that, therefore, it was unnecessary to resolve precisely how this came about.
Above is from:
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
Aunt Agatha stated:
Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #737 on: April 13, 2016, 09:25:PM »
I do understand where you're coming from.
This was all a very long time ago - he gave me loads of things.
The police arrived with rifle, wetsuit, camera, all granny's paperwork and granny's handmade box, and over the years he's made many things for me.
Paintings (numerous), books, cassette tapes...and more.
Must find that watch! It's not where I thought it would be. Hmm!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358280.html#msg358280
So did she have a gun licence?
More importantly why did Bamber allegedly hand out exhibits seemingly from his murder trial?
When I asked her,‘Why didn't the police process the film in his camera?’
She replied,
‘I have no idea. Why give me a rifle? I don't know!’
What rifle was it and why give it to AA?
I asked her,
Didn't you ask them why?
Her reply,
No. We were stunned that they even agreed to give them in the first place. Once I had received them we never mentioned them in writing (I don't think). Maybe they overlooked it....I really don't know and I was not going to ask.
Something else Bamber allegedly told AA,
“Based on what we knew at the beginning we believed the silencer was used........upon revelations he changed his mind. When we last spoke he believed the silencer was not used.”
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg358367.html#msg358367
“We were stunned that they even agreed to give them in the first place.”
Doesn’t this suggest these items were requested by Bamber to be given to Aunt Agatha
Before the CT started their crusade to attempt to obtain further disclosure they really should have carried out an infantry of some description in order to appreciate the full sequence of events and see the bigger picture
To retain the Anschutz, AA would need a firearms licence renewed every five years, each application being signed by two referees who are not family or police officers. Not sure if this now applies to deactivated weapons though.
Wonder what advise Bamber gave her regarding the rifle?As Jeremy Bamber never had a firearms licence of his own, I can't see why the police would give the rifle to AA if she (or one of her relatives) didn't have one either.
Bamber and the new CT were foolish to shut her out as they appear to have done
Wonder what advise Bamber gave her regarding the rifle?
Bamber and the new CT were foolish to shut her out as they appear to have done
As Jeremy Bamber never had a firearms licence of his own, I can't see why the police would give the rifle to AA if she (or one of her relatives) didn't have one either.
The rifle is in what they call the 'black museum' - or it was. There is no way either that or the silencer would have been given to AA.
So has Aunt Agatha made it up about the ‘rifle’ ?
I think he had an air rifle so she might be talking about that.
Hi All,
I'm just popping in to check for any developments, but totally dead here and it appears to me that the glory days of his campaign seem well and truly over, with just a thin smattering of die hard supporters left. It's surely bob hope and no hope territory now.
It made me wonder if he were to confess and finally show remorse, would they release him, for example, 20-30 years down the road as a frail octogenarian posing no threat to society?
Yes I know he was sentenced to life means life, but taking into account the ECHR ruling, and it appears we may not even leave the EU after all. They said Harry Roberts would never be released and after 48 years he got out (his crimes arguably as heinous) David Macgreavy killed infants and got paroled after about 40 years.
Surely Bamber must be considering it ? Had he pleaded guilty at trial would he have been given the possibility of release ? I'm just thinking aloud really but having been so cocksure of himself for so many years, at nearly 60 is he finally facing up to the prospect of dying in jail ?
The prospect of hobbling into Tesco's on a zimmer and buying that Mango he always dreamed of must be tempting ??
Jeremy Bamber Campaign: Why Jeremy is Innocent: An e-Book of the Information on Our Web Site (3rd Edn) Kindle Edition
by Trudi Benjamin (Author), Lorna Lake (Author), Sarah Hanover (Author), Matt Paddock (Author), Yvonne Hartley (Author), Heidi Hawkins (Author)
“The eBook of the Official Jeremy Bamber Campaign website is the only publication of the latest evidence showing Jeremy Bamber to be an innocent man and his case is one of the greatest Miscarriages of Justice in UK history.
The CT ebook is already on its 3rd edition https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jeremy-Bamber-Campaign-Book-Information-ebook/dp/B013HX1ES8
Michelle Diskin Bates refers to ‘the shepherd bush murders’ in her book ‘Stand Against Injustice’ - interestingly she doesn’t use the name ‘Harry Roberts’ but claimed her and her younger siblings witnessed the shootings.
“Roberts' name has been used for many years to antagonise the police, with chants like "Harry Roberts is our friend, is our friend, is our friend. Harry Roberts is our friend, he kills coppers. Let him out to kill some more, kill some more, kill some more, let him out to kill some more, Harry Roberts" as well as "He shot three down in Shepherd's Bush, Shepherd's Bush, Shepherd's Bush. He shot three down in Shepherd's Bush, our mate Harry" (to the tune of "London Bridge Is Falling Down"),[24][25][26][27] which originated with groups of young people outside Shepherd's Bush police station after Roberts had been arrested
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Roberts_(criminal)
J B Campaign Ltd
Company No 09883616 Incorporated 23rd November 2015
Directors Patrick and Trudi Benjamin
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/09883616/J-B-CAMPAIGN-LTD/directors-secretaries
(http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/_/rsrc/1450295412170/directors-and-management-team/Trudi%20Benjamin%202.jpg?height=320&width=247)
I am very pleased to announce the launch of The JB Campaign Limited, which is a ‘Not For Profit’ Private Limited Company. Having thought long and hard about the campaign to keep Jeremy’s case in the public domain and the issues that need resolving to get traction on an Appeal, the only conclusion was that we needed to be able to raise money. Supporters often ask how they can make donations but in order to do this effectively and legitimately the decision was made by the campaign team to set up The Jeremy Bamber Campaign as a legal entity.
Our aim is to raise funds towards any legal or forensic costs not currently covered Pro Bono. There will be an opportunity for people to give cash using a donate button on the website, we will be offering opportunities for appropriate advertising, along with a range of merchandise. Other exciting projects are in the planning process and will be announced in due course.
I am very proud, alongside my husband Pat Benjamin, to be a Director of the organisation and we are delighted to be working with the Campaign Management Team to maintain a high standard of business and accounting practices. In accordance, with requirements by Companies House, all monies will be accounted for and annual accounts will be filed. The Directors and Management Team give their time and expertise for free.
The decision to generate revenue in this way was taken partly because of the denigration of legal aid and the funding crisis for prisoners such as Jeremy but also because of the outrage we feel at the continued wrongful conviction and 30-year loss of liberty of an innocent man. Our hope is that campaigners and supporters, who feel as we do, will give generously to help Jeremy gain the freedom he so richly deserves.
Please look at the “Management Team” (http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/directors-and-management-team) to find out more about who we are and the 'Operations' page to find out how we work.
Thank you.
Trudi Benjamin
Managing Director/Spokesperson
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/jb-campaign-ltd-and-directors
This organisation does not operate or support www.jeremybamberforum.co.uk and we nor Jeremy have any association with, or control over it.
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/about
1056
Why is this company private?
I’m just curious why the Benjamin’s’ don’t want people to know hw much money s donated, and how much is spent
Strange...
The police probably seized many items from JB's cottage which were subsequently found to be of no interest to the investigation.
When the trial was over they were returned to JB who was not in a position to take ownership given he was detained at HMP therfore he made arrangements for AA to take ownership.
The police probably seized many items from JB's cottage which were subsequently found to be of no interest to the investigation.
The police probably seized many items from JB's cottage which were subsequently found to be of no interest to the investigation.
Only one visible gunshot wound was discussed here about 2 years ago:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9438.msg459087#msg459087
What it does show is that SC was moved at soc between first respondents finding her and soc images taken. Certainly not a get out of jail card but a formidable appeal point.
Where was the Chinese trick box seized fromBy that time Bamber had decamped from Bourtree to Sheila's flat, so I guess he took some items like the box with him if it contained anything of value, such as a wad of banknotes and/or Cartier.
Bamber’s cottage or SC flat in London ?
Why is this company private?
I’m just curious why the Benjamin’s’ don’t want people to know hw much money s donated, and how much is spent
Strange...
Again you are posting information without checking your facts. JB Campaign Ltd is just what is says, a Limited Company. All their accounts can be viewed by the public. I have just been on Companies House and viewed their accounts.
Good luck with that... Byyyye! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gecMCyjAMk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gecMCyjAMk)
Good luck with that... Byyyye! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gecMCyjAMk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gecMCyjAMk)
Hiyaaaa!! ()678%
Oh wow, this takes me back - Saturday night, Vesta Paella and Dustin Gee on the telly doing Phyllis Pearce.
Why don't they ask Susan Penhaligon to help them? I bet Bamber had a face like Munch's scream when he saw this.
What year did Aunt Agatha say the police gave her these items?
Mike tesco had these posted up on the blue forum.
Here's the evidence regarding the rifle I received.
My name was Kozul.
Does my post about the rifle settle our differing views regarding its handover?
I had informed you all on here that the evidence was on the blue forum. I'm surprised you didn't find it yourselves.
I have not lied to you about anything I have stated.
How do you feel knowing at one time you had a rifle in your possession that had killed so many?
Whilst in my possession it was not thought to have been used. The police would never had handed it to me had there been any suspicion at all about its use.
Yes, I received the rifle he is writing about in the post. It states that quite clearly.
John, if Jeremy did do it, then he made a several mistakes, the first one being contacting the police himself.
Also, the wet suit was mentioned, it being used. Why did he give it to me to hold on to, along with the air rifle, that was also supposedly used (according to Mike and friends).
Yes, I received the rifle he is writing about in the post. It states that quite clearly.It was a spring-propelled lead pellet-firing air rifle, not a semi-automatic bullet-firing rifle, wasn't it AA? Most likely the BSA Meteor which was found under some old clothes on the kitchen staircase, and the only air-rifle present at WHF, it seems. Unless Jeremy Bamber had a different one stored at Bourtree.
Yes, I received the rifle he is writing about in the post. It states that quite clearly.
It was a spring-propelled lead pellet-firing air rifle, not a semi-automatic bullet-firing rifle, wasn't it AA? Most likely the BSA Meteor which was found under some old clothes on the kitchen staircase, and the only air-rifle present at WHF, it seems. Unless Jeremy Bamber had a different one stored at Bourtree.
According to Wilkes, it originally belonged to the Pargeters, but they gave it to Nevill for Jeremy's use as a first rifle to gain shooting experience, probably.
The Meteor was low-powered (only 10 ft.lb force) and as such wouldn't have needed a firearm's licence, unlike one of 12 ft.lb and above which would have...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSA_Meteor_Air_Rifle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSA_Meteor_Air_Rifle)
https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/air-rifle/airgun-security-law-26100 (https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/air-rifle/airgun-security-law-26100)
Did you ever contact Bamber, his legal team or anyone else to see if they wanted the rifle returned for testing ?
No. I didn't tell anybody that I had it. Mike put my name out on the blue and informed people that it had been handed to me. Until then, nobody knew anything about it as it was not deemed important.
No. I didn't tell anybody that I had it. Mike put my name out on the blue and informed people that it had been handed to me. Until then, nobody knew anything about it as it was not deemed important.
Yes, I received the rifle he is writing about in the post. It states that quite clearly.
The Meteor was low-powered (only 10 ft.lb force) and as such wouldn't have needed a firearm's licence, unlike one of 12 ft.lb and above which would have...
Not for second did I think I had received any weapon that was used. Don't twist it as if to state I have ever made such a claim.
Mike tesco had these posted up on the blue forum.
Here's the evidence regarding the rifle I received.
My name was Kozul.
Yes, I received the rifle he is writing about in the post. It states that quite clearly.
And it’s possible he could have told someone else you had it ?
Mike appears to have suggested the rifle you were given was ‘possibly’ the murder weapon?
But you weren’t handed the murder weapon you received the one - as suggested by Myster
You kind of gave the impression you were handed the murder weapon
Dont talk nonsense!!
Mike tesco knows exactly what rifle was given to me. He found out on paperwork. I suggest you ask him to clarify.
Dont talk nonsense!!
This is nonsense AA
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11464.msg588683#msg588683
The latest same old, same old Christmas sermon... https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/ (https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/)
Ho ho ho!!Who'd have thunk it... a science lesson from Trudi's Beastie.
"Eat up your sprouts, Jeremy, Mick Philpott wants to put something in your hand. He says it's the magic fish out of his cracker....."
Countless numbers of birthday cards from the fanny club will flood in no doubt, but will he get the key to the door?... errrm, no I don't think so...
https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/1343906706594607104 (https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/1343906706594607104)
Does Jeremy Bamber ever become violent for any reasons and require restraining, if so how do prison staff go about doing so?I doubt it. He's got a reputation to uphold with hundreds of floosies who send him their knickers and monthly benefit cheques.
I doubt it. He's got a reputation to uphold with hundreds of floosies who send him their knickers and monthly benefit cheques.
Is this the ground-breaking revelation we were led to expect in January? A clueless collection of campaigners with a fake book background to top it all. Oh, the irony!...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ajXwVulpWc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ajXwVulpWc)
Is this the ground-breaking revelation we were led to expect in January? A clueless collection of campaigners with a fake book background to top it all. Oh, the irony!...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ajXwVulpWc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ajXwVulpWc)
Blimey! MWT comes out for Jeremy! He also believes Oscar Pistorious is innocent and Michael Jackson wasn’t a paedo....I saw this the other day, but didn't think it worthwhile giving an ex-plod rent-a-gob more publicity than he deserves.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9265605/Ex-detective-says-White-House-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-innocent-believes-sister-murdered-family.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9265605/Ex-detective-says-White-House-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-innocent-believes-sister-murdered-family.html)
I saw this the other day, but didn't think it worthwhile giving an ex-plod rent-a-gob more publicity than he deserves.
I saw this the other day, but didn't think it worthwhile giving an ex-plod rent-a-gob more publicity than he deserves.
Blimey! MWT comes out for Jeremy! He also believes Oscar Pistorious is innocent and Michael Jackson wasn’t a paedo....
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9265605/Ex-detective-says-White-House-killer-Jeremy-Bamber-innocent-believes-sister-murdered-family.html
’Former cop aims to help free Jeremy Bamber’ - 17th Feb 2021
Excerpts:
“Former policeman Stuart Bower, from Hove, has been writing to the convicted killer since 2007 and believes Bamber has evidence which may exonerate him.
“Mr Bower said: “There was a documentary and one of the sergeants who attended the scene and was joined there by Jeremy Bamber said they saw somebody moving in the upstairs windows – they withdrew back and hid behind a hedge waiting for the firearms unit to arrive.
“This sergeant said that it was an optical illusion caused by moonshine on the window – which is what caused me to write to the science museum, directed to the Royal Observatory Edinburgh, who confirmed the moon wasn’t shining that night.
“To be exact, it was in its last quarter which means it was nothing more than a silver sickle in the sky.”
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/19097573.amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Mr Bower added: “Jeremy said to me that in his letter, as Sheila was ‘barking mad’ and the local police knew of her history of mental illness, he assumed it would have been quicker to phone the local police.'
----------
That's a new one. Sheila lived in London. The local police station he rang was over 20 miles away.
I'm loving Mr. Bower!! @)(++(*
He's the gift that keeps on giving, and a typical Bamber supporter!!
I'm loving Mr. Bower!! @)(++(*
He's the gift that keeps on giving, and a typical Bamber supporter!!
'He has also written to Hove and Portslade MP Peter Kyle, urging him to get involved in the case'.
---------
Hopefully he does get involved. It seems Andrew Hunter is not coming out to play anymore.
Mr. Bower is the dynamic new blood that the Bamber campaign has been crying out for. (His "Monty Python" letter is absolutely BRILLIANT!!!!)
It's all looking very promising.
8((()*/
https://youtu.be/73janUtGz8Y
They needed to do something after Trudie's vlogs stopped.
Why did the cops hide behind the hedge?
Why did the cops hide behind the hedge?
Why did the cops hide behind the hedge?To relieve themselves.................. of their duties?
’Jeremy Bamber – The story yet to be told ?” by Mark Newby
Excerpts:
“This has been a journey that has never forgotten that at the centre of it is a family tragedy and one that still affects all the participants today including Jeremy Bamber.
But it has also been astonishing in terms of the picture that is now uncovered and how far away from the original trial narrative this case now presented to the commission is.
“The Commission have now been presented with a digital store of material which touches on 8 focussed grounds of Appeal. For the detractors it should be made clear that this is not a submission based on Jeremy Bamber simply reasserting his innocence. This is instead a very detailed and focussed application based on material which has been uncovered since 2011.
As time goes on in this case, we hope to be able to share parts of the evidence which now supports the fact that every part of the reported case appears to be untrue, and there is now a new narrative to be told which if accepted by the Commission and then in turn the Court of Appeal should lead to Jeremy Bamber being exonerated.
https://crimejottings.com/2021/03/12/jeremy-bamber-the-story-yet-to-be-told/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Not impressed with Newby. ‘ We’ll release the evidence as we go along’. What lawyer says that. Pompous twit. Didnt he tell us before how strong the judicial review claim was yet they couldnt even get permission. I would be astonished if Bamber were ever to be released. It would take Julie Mugford to retract her evidence for that to happen
’Jeremy Bamber – The story yet to be told ?” by Mark Newby
Excerpts:
“This has been a journey that has never forgotten that at the centre of it is a family tragedy and one that still affects all the participants today including Jeremy Bamber.
But it has also been astonishing in terms of the picture that is now uncovered and how far away from the original trial narrative this case now presented to the commission is.
“The Commission have now been presented with a digital store of material which touches on 8 focussed grounds of Appeal. For the detractors it should be made clear that this is not a submission based on Jeremy Bamber simply reasserting his innocence. This is instead a very detailed and focussed application based on material which has been uncovered since 2011.
As time goes on in this case, we hope to be able to share parts of the evidence which now supports the fact that every part of the reported case appears to be untrue, and there is now a new narrative to be told which if accepted by the Commission and then in turn the Court of Appeal should lead to Jeremy Bamber being exonerated.
https://crimejottings.com/2021/03/12/jeremy-bamber-the-story-yet-to-be-told/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Sounds like the grasping of ever diminishing straws. In my opinion nothing that could possibly exonerate Jeremy Bamber has been uncovered otherwise it would have been leaked by his very vocal campaigners. Sounds like new boy Newby is trying to blow his own trumpet. How many times have we heard all this before?
It would take a some doing to overturn Julie's evidence imo. The Sheila shot herself theory has also long been discredited for so many reasons so whoever did it had inside knowledge of how to get into and out of the farmhouse undetected. Only one person comes to mind Mr Newby?
Sounds like the grasping of ever diminishing straws. In my opinion nothing that could possibly exonerate Jeremy Bamber has been uncovered otherwise it would have been leaked by his very vocal campaigners. Sounds like new boy Newby is trying to blow his own trumpet. How many times have we heard all this before?
It would take a some doing to overturn Julie's evidence imo. The Sheila shot herself theory has also long been discredited for so many reasons so whoever did it had inside knowledge of how to get into and out of the farmhouse undetected. Only one person comes to mind Mr Newby?
Sounds like the grasping of ever diminishing straws. In my opinion nothing that could possibly exonerate Jeremy Bamber has been uncovered otherwise it would have been leaked by his very vocal campaigners. Sounds like new boy Newby is trying to blow his own trumpet. How many times have we heard all this before?
It would take a some doing to overturn Julie's evidence imo. The Sheila shot herself theory has also long been discredited for so many reasons so whoever did it had inside knowledge of how to get into and out of the farmhouse undetected. Only one person comes to mind Mr Newby?
Pay solicitors more for advising on wrongful convictions - report
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/pay-solicitors-more-for-advising-on-wrongful-convictions-report/5107679.article#.YEIC-6E9y5c.twitter
Mark Newby on: 5 March 2021 1:33pm
‘This Report is to be welcomed and long overdue . As one of those who gave evidence to the commission I can only echo that the plight of the wrongfully convicted and those who are asked to help them right the injustice they have suffered is a matter that needs the most urgent attention . When the CCRC itself has issued a statement today welcoming the report then you know that this is a signficant issue and one that must be urgently addressed . It is to be hoped that Government and the Law Commission will not let this opportunity slip by
Is this effectively a fakers charter?
APPG on Miscarriages of Justice
@APPGMJ
Mar 12
PANEL - VIRTUAL LAUNCH
Michael O'Brien, author & wrongful conviction survivor
@michael73798531
Helen Pitcher, CCRC Chairman
@ccrcupdate
Dr Hannah Quirk, KCL
@HannahQuirk1
David Rose, investigative journalist
@DavidRoseUK
Chairs: APPG's
@BarrySheerman
&
@neill_bob
’Does Jeremy Bamber have a human right to be released from prison with immediate effect?’ Michael Naughton
https://www.thejusticegap.com/does-jeremy-bamber-have-a-human-right-to-be-released-from-prison-with-immediate-effect/
’Does Jeremy Bamber have a human right to be released from prison with immediate effect?’ Michael Naughton
https://www.thejusticegap.com/does-jeremy-bamber-have-a-human-right-to-be-released-from-prison-with-immediate-effect/
In a word - NO!
Jack Adam’s - who apparently attended Simon Hall’s appeal against his murder conviction recently said of Naughton
‘Change can only come when honesty of purpose and the integrity Michael possesses are sitting on the bench’
How very approprate for All Fools Day, 30 minutes boring, bombastic bluster if you've got any spare time to waste...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1J6Zyv2Z-Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1J6Zyv2Z-Y)
Twenty-three minutes of boot-licking drivel... https://open.spotify.com/episode/56p8qsZl5JWoNlJ8Ho6vft (https://open.spotify.com/episode/56p8qsZl5JWoNlJ8Ho6vft)
Listened to the first question. It seems Yvonne Hartley knew Bamber before the killings. He was not cocky & arrogant as many sources have said.
I am afraid you are wrong. She didn’t know him and certainly wasn’t around when I was visiting Jeremy.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/yvonne-hartley
I knew I was wrong.
I am afraid you are wrong. She didn’t know him and certainly wasn’t around when I was visiting Jeremy.
http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/yvonne-hartley
You couldn't make a more un-engaging podcast if you tried.Such as... friends of Kevin for forensic evidence.
30 seconds of creepy 'music on hold' music? They really know how to grab the listeners attention, I don't think.
And when they do eventually start talking, one of them sounds a bit drunk, I had to put the subtitles on.
The most interesting thing about this is how well the auto generated subtitles coped with the incoherent words. Hic. Well done Youtube!
It sounded like two gossips at a bus stop talking about something they know nothing about.
They did say that Jeremy Bamber didn't have any marks on his hands, which is a strange thing to say, because when he became a suspect 5 weeks after the murders, his hands were checked by the police and they did have marks on them.
He explained that he always had cuts and other marks on his hands caused by everyday farming duties.
So, on the night of the murders, Jeremy Bamber, by his own admission, did have marks and cuts on his hands.
So why these people feel that they have to peddle the lie that his hands were totally unmarked, is strange because, he was a farmer with permanently cut and marked hands, which he was happy to admit to.
It is only Sheila that didn't have any marks on her.
I suppose it's possible that in the deluded foggy haze that these people live in, they may have got Sheila and Jeremy mixed up.
Just how deluded is it possible to be? (start 53 minutes in)...
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/rise-with-bnt-29_24KLhvOxBvebAQz.html (https://brandnewtube.com/watch/rise-with-bnt-29_24KLhvOxBvebAQz.html)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ojZ-B3n0k0A
Part 2 of the UK’s Innocence Fraud blog series will now be focusing on the above chat with convicted/exonerated killer Mike O’Brien & deluded Philip Walker & Yvonne Hartley’s recent chat with Sonia Poulton
Are Yvonne Hartley and Philip Walker aware Michael O’Brien has not ‘cleared his name’ as he keeps falsely claiming?
Tune in to see yet more crap from Bamber's clueless campaigners, that is if you've got time to waste...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m83gMjGj7co (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m83gMjGj7co)
Tune in to see yet more crap from Bamber's clueless campaigners, that is if you've got time to waste...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m83gMjGj7co (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m83gMjGj7co)
There are a couple of comment by Yvonne Hartley on the YouTube vid
Yvonne Hartley: Oh and here you are, our very own troll. I wonder what ridiculous comments you are going to make on this podcast. I expect much the same as usual from you.
Unfortunately Yvonne Hartley is so brainwashed (And lacking in self awareness) she doesn’t recognise her psychological projectionsWhatever happened to incisive questioning journalism?!! Their dumbo host is just umming, aahing and accepting every despicable lie they're uttering!
Whatever happened to incisive questioning journalism?!! Their dumbo host is just umming, aahing and accepting every despicable lie they're uttering!
It's remarkable how the CT are never asked for any evidence for their conspiracy fantasies but I will repeat the point that if a podcaster challenged or scrutinised their claims, it's no longer much of a story for a conspiracy hungry audience.
Likewise the Guardian and the Mirror running with garbage about "new evidence" - if they debunked it, there is no longer a decent headline.
"Convicted Murderer Makes Unsubstantiated Claims - Again"
There are a couple of comment by Yvonne Hartley on the YouTube vid
Yvonne Hartley: Oh and here you are, our very own troll. I wonder what ridiculous comments you are going to make on this podcast. I expect much the same as usual from you.
It's remarkable how the CT are never asked for any evidence for their conspiracy fantasies
To be fair to Yvonne Hartley, PaulS is a bit of troll and she does take the time to answer questions if they are asked politely unlike MDB who seems to take offence at any questioning of her beliefs.
To be fair to Yvonne Hartley, PaulS is a bit of troll and she does take the time to answer questions if they are asked politely unlike MDB who seems to take offence at any questioning of her beliefs.
To be fair to Yvonne Hartley, PaulS is a bit of troll and she does take the time to answer questions if they are asked politely unlike MDB who seems to take offence at any questioning of her beliefs.
I do see the similarities though, not least an overestimation of their own abilities and a hardly subtle blowing of their own trumpets. Note how YH introduces herself with grandiose titles and MDB often refers to herself in the third person.
The first rule of Dunning-Kruger club is you don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger club.
To be fair to Yvonne Hartley, PaulS is a bit of troll and she does take the time to answer questions if they are asked politely unlike MDB who seems to take offence at any questioning of her beliefs.
I do see the similarities though, not least an overestimation of their own abilities and a hardly subtle blowing of their own trumpets. Note how YH introduces herself with grandiose titles and MDB often refers to herself in the third person.
The first rule of Dunning-Kruger club is you don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger club.
Are they?He's right though...
I’ve no idea who PaulS is but maybe Yvonne didn’t like the fact they stated she and Philip Walker were ‘lying ot of your arse’ (sic) ?
He's right though...
Are they?
I’ve no idea who PaulS is but maybe Yvonne didn’t like the fact they stated she and Philip Walker were ‘lying ot of your arse’ (sic) ?
Egomania or something else?
I’m certain Michelle Diskin Bates knows her brother murdered Jill Dando
Probably a combination of ego, obsession with a subject and the self validating echo chamber effect.
I've no idea what YH did for a living but I suspect she may have been just an ordinary housewife who now feels important. MDB became a published author for writing such gems as " Justice is never served by convicting the innocent" - a cringing, blindingly obvious statement that she seems ever so proud of and uses like a catchphrase.
I wonder if she says to her husband,
"Tea is never made without boiling the kettle"
I don't see how you can be certain. Denial is powerful and only increases with emotional investment.
I sometimes amuse myself with young earth creationist videos on youtube. It's fascinating to see how people will deny or ignore known facts and entire branches of science in order to protect their belief system which appears to be a house of cards. If they start to question one aspect of the belief system, they might start to question it all so they simply don't go there.
I've no idea what YH did for a living but I suspect she may have been just an ordinary housewife who now feels important.
MDB became a published author for writing such gems as " Justice is never served by convicting the innocent" - a cringing, blindingly obvious statement that she seems ever so proud of and uses like a catchphrase.
Probably a combination of ego, obsession with a subject and the self validating echo chamber effect.
I've no idea what YH did for a living but I suspect she may have been just an ordinary housewife who now feels important. MDB became a published author for writing such gems as " Justice is never served by convicting the innocent" - a cringing, blindingly obvious statement that she seems ever so proud of and uses like a catchphrase.
I wonder if she says to her husband,
"Tea is never made without boiling the kettle"
I don't see how you can be certain. Denial is powerful and only increases with emotional investment.
I do see the similarities though, not least an overestimation of their own abilities and a hardly subtle blowing of their own trumpets. Note how YH introduces herself with grandiose titles and MDB often refers to herself in the third person.
To be fair to Yvonne Hartley, PaulS is a bit of troll and she does take the time to answer questions if they are asked politely
To be fair to Yvonne Hartley, PaulS is a bit of troll and she does take the time to answer questions if they are asked politely
Yvonne appears to me to have been brainwashed by Bamber - the predator
Yvonne is being exploitedAs are all the CT... and gullible members of the public filling his overloaded pockets with cash, sweeties and god knows what else.
To be fair to Yvonne Hartley, PaulS is a bit of troll and she does take the time to answer questions if they are asked politely
I do see the similarities though, not least an overestimation of their own abilities and a hardly subtle blowing of their own trumpets. Note how YH introduces herself with grandiose titles and MDB often refers to herself in the third person.
Does she? If true, I’m not aware of this
Where can we read Yvonne Hartley’s take on the Virginia and Anji Greaves saga?
And what does she say re: the drug/date rape of the girl from the Chequers public house?
I’d also like to hear from Philip Walker and Yvonne Hartley on Ibraheem Abdullah - aka convicted/exonerated killer Dwaine George
And what does ‘patron’ Dennis Eady say about the violent Manchester gang member who claimed to be ‘reformed’?
⬇️
https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/operation-venetic-drug-smuggler-convicted-over-20-kilo-cocaine-seizure
Does anyone remember Dennis Eady from the BBC’s ‘Law in Action - Protecting the Innocent’ from 2015
⬇️
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b051s2bt
He always has proof. The blokes a fantasist. Is this the kind of stuff they're submitting to the CCRC?
Anyway, before any of this 'new evidence' can be considered to be 'capable of belief', Bamber has to overcome paragraph 518 of the 2002 CoA.
Because at the moment, thanks to paragraph 518, it is currently proven (from a legal point of view) that Sheila was murdered, and that the murderer moved the body immediately after she died.
To cut a long story short, para 518 proves that Sheila was murdered, and was dead before the firearms officers entered the building, and also, because no one was seen to exit the house when the police were outside the house, it proves that Sheila had been murdered before 03:48 (When the first police showed up).
When the 3 judges declared para 518 as being 'capable of belief', and compelling enough on it's own to allow the jury to come to a guilty verdict, they set a precedent. From that moment on, that evidence will be interpreted as proof that Sheila was murdered, until proven otherwise by Bamber's defence team.
Bamber's case will go nowhere until paragraph 518 is adequately disproven, or shown to be faulty.
And the only way to disprove the science behind paragraph 518, you need a reputable, and qualified scientist, and given that blood pattern analysis is a very well developed area of forensic science, paragraph 518 is going to be very hard to overcome.
You would need to hire an unethical scientist who sympathises with Bamber.
Luckily for Bamber, Giovanni Di Stefano will be out of prison shortly. So I'm guessing that Professor Di Stefano, the worlds leading blood pattern expert, will shortly be coming to his rescue.
Good luck with that, Jezza.Quote
Michelle Diskin Bates
@Michelle_Diskin
Well done Metro for bucking the trend to demonise a wrongly convicted man. Thirty plus years, Jeremy is still battling.
***P.S. read the police disclaimer at the end…we already KNOW they have refused to disclose evidence, going completely against two court orders to do so!
Quote Tweet
Jeremy Bamber
@Bambertweets
· 18h
Today's article in @MetroUK about new evidence in the #jeremybamber case https://metro.co.uk/2022/02/05/jeremy-bamber-says-he-has-proof-he-was-framed-for-white-house-farm-murders-16047951/…
8:22 pm · 5 Feb 2022·Twitter for iPad
https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1490058318433468420?cxt=HHwWiIC-zauJ4K0pAAAA
Diskin Bates revealing her cluelessness as usual. Vanezis identified TWO stud earrings in Sheila Caffell's earlobes at post mortem...
(http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=666)
Glyn Maddocks recently joined Yvonne Hartley and Philip Walker in their latest piece of propaganda
Maddocks didn’t make a single comment apparently re: psycho mass murderer & innocence fraudster Bamber
I’ve no idea what the point of having him on was and I can’t work out who of the three of them is the most deluded or in denial? https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/03/denialism-what-drives-people-to-reject-the-truth
Or maybe Maddocks is neither ?
‘Take Glyn Maddocks too. This veteran criminal appeals solicitor has very recently been on the receiving end of the CCRC’s unjustifiable and disgraceful decision not to refer a ‘classic’ miscarriage of justice case to the Court of Appeal. Glyn has been part of the eminent team fighting for about 24 years on this case. Yet deaf CCRC ears take no heed of obvious police mistakes that must surely make that conviction unsafe.
Take Tony Stock’s legal team, who are still fighting after the Court of Appeal has four times refused to do the honourable and honest thing and admit that this cannot in any sense of the word be considered a safe conviction.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/this-conference-is-about-hope-we-are-the-people-who-have-to-make-the-change/
Glyn Maddocks has come out with some proper nonsense over the years, especially since the innocence fraud of Joan Albert’s killer was exposed.
I’d also like to hear from Philip Walker and Yvonne Hartley on Ibraheem Abdullah - aka convicted/exonerated killer Dwaine George
And what does ‘patron’ Dennis Eady say about the violent Manchester gang member who claimed to be ‘reformed’?
⬇️
https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/operation-venetic-drug-smuggler-convicted-over-20-kilo-cocaine-seizure
Does anyone remember Dennis Eady from the BBC’s ‘Law in Action - Protecting the Innocent’ from 2015
⬇️
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b051s2bt
‘Dwaine George was sent to prison in 2001 for murder. Aged 18 and a member of a Manchester gang, he was convicted for shooting dead another 18-year-old and sentenced to life imprisonment. But Dwaine George said he didn't do it and continued to protest his innocence throughout the 12 years he eventually served. He was finally vindicated by the Court of Appeal shortly before Christmas, when his conviction was quashed. Dwaine George wasn't the only person celebrating that day. Crammed into court for the appeal hearing had been a group of students and lecturers from Cardiff Law School. The law school runs an Innocence Project, where students take up alleged miscarriages of justice. There are more than 30 such projects at universities all over the country. The Dwaine George case was the first case in the UK brought by an Innocence Project to be successfully appealed. In this week's Law in Action Joshua Rozenberg goes to Cardiff to meet the people who made this happen. He hears about the years of work that went into their investigation, and the further years of waiting after the appeal was filed in 2010. And he hears about their euphoria and relief when the email finally came through that the Court of Appeal had quashed the conviction. But is the system that is designed to guard against miscarriages of justice working properly? There are plenty of lawyers who say it isn't. Parliament's Justice Committee is currently conducting an inquiry into the effectiveness of the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), through which all appeals for wrongful conviction must go. The commission's chairman Richard Foster gave evidence to the committee on February 3rd and will be in the Law In Action studio to debate the issue with Joshua Rosenberg and others.
Has anyone seen this https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/pro-bono/cardiff-university-innocence-project with Dennis Eady 🙄
And, the Cardiff Innocence Project and Michael Naughton were involved with this
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/cj-jp/ccr-rc/mjc-cej/index.html
There’s a quote on the front page of the above report by journalist and ex UK CCRC commissioner David Jessel
A few years after Simon McKays involvement with Bambers case he wrote and published the following on the Justice Gap website run by Jon Robins
”John Worboys: ‘Let the victims to have their say”
“Hold the parole Board decision in Worboys up to light and permit the voiceless victims to have their say, writes Simon McKay.
Read article in full here https://www.thejusticegap.com/john-worboys-let-victims-say/
Prior to the above in October 2012 he wrote and published an article headed, Judicial mischief
”There is an unjustifiably little known text book called Miscarriages of Justice: a review of justice in error. Its editors were the esteemed Professor Clive Walker and (then) junior barrister Keir Starmer, now the Director of Public Prosecutions. A review of its pages ought to make uncomfortable reading for British judges since it includes references to various cases that were then considered on appeal to be safe convictions but which later, sometimes much later, resulted in those convictions being quashed.
The CCRC looks at cases from a dry, objective and academic point of view, whereas an innocence campaign will look at things from a much more personal and emotional point of view.
Bamber supporters seem to be emotionally involved in him, which seems to allow them to ignore the weight of evidence that condemns him. That's why the CCRC can't let emotions interfere in any way with their decisions.
Decisions can only be evidence based. Nothing else. So maybe it's wise that the the CCRC keep their distance from campaigners and lawyers.
The Canadian stuff only refers to innocence campaigners negative perceptions about the English CCRC. It doesn't refer to any reality.
Perceptions from innocence campaigners and their lawyers is always going to be negative. It's their job to be negative, as it puts pressure on the CCRC to favour them.
The CCRC just have to make sure that they dryly stick to the evidence only.
As far as Bamber's concerned, it looks like his current appeal application has swamped the CCRC with tons and tons of paperwork, which may take years for the CCRC to wade through, page by page, line by line.
It's already been a year. The last application in 2012 was described by the CCRC as their longest ever investigation, and their conclusion was; "pure speculation and unsubstantiated allegations".
The latest press release that his lawyer or other supporters have released to the Metro, contains 'evidence' that doesn't even qualify to be considered, because those photos were available prior to the original court case. Just because the defence didn't act on it at the time doesn't matter, it won't qualify as new evidence.
That rule is there to stop abusers like Bamber from gaming the system, and swamping it even more with time consuming nonsense.
On top of that there's no evidence that the silver object is an earring, or a pendant for a necklace, or something Sheila just had in her hand when she exited her bedroom, or a trinket belonging to June that Bamber threw at Sheila after he shot her dead. All of those are perfectly plausible in the absence of any extra information.
Even if it is an earring, there is no evidence to connect it with the fight in the kitchen, and the existing evidence that Sheila could not have been in a fight, remains far stronger than the possibility that she was in a fight.
It will therefore, fail the 'capable of belief test', and if you waive it through that first test, it still wouldn't be strong enough to convince a jury that he is not guilty, after considering all the other evidence against Bamber.
'Longest running case' probably refers to the fact that Bamber has been appealing since 1989.
Someone involved in the case on the Blue forum said it took 3 months to make a decision in 2012.
The CCRC looks at cases from a dry, objective and academic point of view,
The CCRC looks at cases from a dry, objective and academic point of view,
Bamber supporters seem to be emotionally involved in him, which seems to allow them to ignore the weight of evidence that condemns him. That's why the CCRC can't let emotions interfere in any way with their decisions.
The Canadian stuff only refers to innocence campaigners negative perceptions about the English CCRC. It doesn't refer to any reality.
The CCRC just have to make sure that they dryly stick to the evidence only.
As far as Bamber's concerned, it looks like his current appeal application has swamped the CCRC with tons and tons of paperwork, which may take years for the CCRC to wade through, page by page, line by line.
That rule is there to stop abusers like Bamber from gaming the system, and swamping it even more with time consuming nonsense.
'Longest running case' probably refers to the fact that Bamber has been appealing since 1989.
Someone involved in the case on the Blue forum said it took 3 months to make a decision in 2012.
"Longest running case" refers only to the application to appeal for which the 109 page report was published in 2012.
The CCRC said:
A spokesman added: "This is a final decision and brings to a close the Commission's current longest running case.
"The Commission has given due consideration to all the submissions made, old and new, before making a final decision on whether to refer the case to the Court of Appeal."
That first sentence only refers to the current case, as they said "brings to a close".
If the whole thing was brought to a close, then he wouldn't be able to appeal again. They are only referring to the current case, not the whole thing from 1989.
If it took 3 months to get to the final decision in 2012, why has it taken a year with this one?
You have to take everything they say on the blue forum with a pinch of salt.
The process may have worked differently for the 2012 appeal, but my understanding is that the review process started in 2004 and ended with the 109 page report in 2012. So the whole thing took 8 years. But what might have happened is that Bamber was allowed to submit more 'evidence' as the years went by, whilst the commission reviewed previous submitted 'evidence'.
There was definitely a process of some kind that happened, that took a lot longer than 3 months.
As for Bamber submitting evidence on one issue only, this is highly unlikely, as the commission wrote the following in its conclusion in 2012:
"Matters of pure speculation or unsubstantiated allegation constitute neither new evidence nor new argument capable of giving rise to a real possibility that the Court of Appeal will quash a conviction.
"Neither can such a real possibility arise from the accumulation of multiple unsubstantiated allegations.
'multiple unsubstantiated allegations' must refer to multiple grounds of contention.
Remember Bamber is a creature of habit, he behaves in a totally predictable way. So, in the 1990's he submitted 16 grounds of contention, and his latest submission there are 8 grounds, with multiple sub grounds. So it would be strange that Bamber only submitted one ground in 2012.
In 2012 Bamber said that he had held some grounds of contention back so that if the 2012 appeal was unsuccessful, he could start another appeal.
The bloke is a piece of work like no other.
"Longest running case" refers only to the application to appeal for which the 109 page report was published in 2012.
The CCRC said:
A spokesman added: "This is a final decision and brings to a close the Commission's current longest running case.
"The Commission has given due consideration to all the submissions made, old and new, before making a final decision on whether to refer the case to the Court of Appeal."
That first sentence only refers to the current case, as they said "brings to a close".
If the whole thing was brought to a close, then he wouldn't be able to appeal again. They are only referring to the current case, not the whole thing from 1989.
If it took 3 months to get to the final decision in 2012, why has it taken a year with this one?
You have to take everything they say on the blue forum with a pinch of salt.
The process may have worked differently for the 2012 appeal, but my understanding is that the review process started in 2004 and ended with the 109 page report in 2012. So the whole thing took 8 years. But what might have happened is that Bamber was allowed to submit more 'evidence' as the years went by, whilst the commission reviewed previous submitted 'evidence'.
There was definitely a process of some kind that happened, that took a lot longer than 3 months.
As for Bamber submitting evidence on one issue only, this is highly unlikely, as the commission wrote the following in its conclusion in 2012:
"Matters of pure speculation or unsubstantiated allegation constitute neither new evidence nor new argument capable of giving rise to a real possibility that the Court of Appeal will quash a conviction.
"Neither can such a real possibility arise from the accumulation of multiple unsubstantiated allegations.
'multiple unsubstantiated allegations' must refer to multiple grounds of contention.
Remember Bamber is a creature of habit, he behaves in a totally predictable way. So, in the 1990's he submitted 16 grounds of contention, and his latest submission there are 8 grounds, with multiple sub grounds. So it would be strange that Bamber only submitted one ground in 2012.
In 2012 Bamber said that he had held some grounds of contention back so that if the 2012 appeal was unsuccessful, he could start another appeal.
The bloke is a piece of work like no other.
"Longest running case" refers only to the application to appeal for which the 109 page report was published in 2012.
The CCRC said:
A spokesman added: "This is a final decision and brings to a close the Commission's current longest running case.
"The Commission has given due consideration to all the submissions made, old and new, before making a final decision on whether to refer the case to the Court of Appeal."
That first sentence only refers to the current case, as they said "brings to a close".
If the whole thing was brought to a close, then he wouldn't be able to appeal again. They are only referring to the current case, not the whole thing from 1989.
If it took 3 months to get to the final decision in 2012, why has it taken a year with this one?
You have to take everything they say on the blue forum with a pinch of salt.
The process may have worked differently for the 2012 appeal, but my understanding is that the review process started in 2004 and ended with the 109 page report in 2012. So the whole thing took 8 years. But what might have happened is that Bamber was allowed to submit more 'evidence' as the years went by, whilst the commission reviewed previous submitted 'evidence'.
There was definitely a process of some kind that happened, that took a lot longer than 3 months.
As for Bamber submitting evidence on one issue only, this is highly unlikely, as the commission wrote the following in its conclusion in 2012:
"Matters of pure speculation or unsubstantiated allegation constitute neither new evidence nor new argument capable of giving rise to a real possibility that the Court of Appeal will quash a conviction.
"Neither can such a real possibility arise from the accumulation of multiple unsubstantiated allegations.
'multiple unsubstantiated allegations' must refer to multiple grounds of contention.
Remember Bamber is a creature of habit, he behaves in a totally predictable way. So, in the 1990's he submitted 16 grounds of contention, and his latest submission there are 8 grounds, with multiple sub grounds. So it would be strange that Bamber only submitted one ground in 2012.
In 2012 Bamber said that he had held some grounds of contention back so that if the 2012 appeal was unsuccessful, he could start another appeal.
The bloke is a piece of work like no other.
"Longest running case" refers only to the application to appeal for which the 109 page report was published in 2012.
The CCRC said:
A spokesman added: "This is a final decision and brings to a close the Commission's current longest running case.
"The Commission has given due consideration to all the submissions made, old and new, before making a final decision on whether to refer the case to the Court of Appeal."
That first sentence only refers to the current case, as they said "brings to a close".
If the whole thing was brought to a close, then he wouldn't be able to appeal again. They are only referring to the current case, not the whole thing from 1989.
If it took 3 months to get to the final decision in 2012, why has it taken a year with this one?
You have to take everything they say on the blue forum with a pinch of salt.
The process may have worked differently for the 2012 appeal, but my understanding is that the review process started in 2004 and ended with the 109 page report in 2012. So the whole thing took 8 years. But what might have happened is that Bamber was allowed to submit more 'evidence' as the years went by, whilst the commission reviewed previous submitted 'evidence'.
There was definitely a process of some kind that happened, that took a lot longer than 3 months.
As for Bamber submitting evidence on one issue only, this is highly unlikely, as the commission wrote the following in its conclusion in 2012:
"Matters of pure speculation or unsubstantiated allegation constitute neither new evidence nor new argument capable of giving rise to a real possibility that the Court of Appeal will quash a conviction.
"Neither can such a real possibility arise from the accumulation of multiple unsubstantiated allegations.
'multiple unsubstantiated allegations' must refer to multiple grounds of contention.
Remember Bamber is a creature of habit, he behaves in a totally predictable way. So, in the 1990's he submitted 16 grounds of contention, and his latest submission there are 8 grounds, with multiple sub grounds. So it would be strange that Bamber only submitted one ground in 2012.
In 2012 Bamber said that he had held some grounds of contention back so that if the 2012 appeal was unsuccessful, he could start another appeal.
The bloke is a piece of work like no other.
"Longest running case" refers only to the application to appeal for which the 109 page report was published in 2012.
The CCRC said:
A spokesman added: "This is a final decision and brings to a close the Commission's current longest running case.
"The Commission has given due consideration to all the submissions made, old and new, before making a final decision on whether to refer the case to the Court of Appeal."
That first sentence only refers to the current case, as they said "brings to a close".
If the whole thing was brought to a close, then he wouldn't be able to appeal again. They are only referring to the current case, not the whole thing from 1989.
If it took 3 months to get to the final decision in 2012, why has it taken a year with this one?
You have to take everything they say on the blue forum with a pinch of salt.
The process may have worked differently for the 2012 appeal, but my understanding is that the review process started in 2004 and ended with the 109 page report in 2012. So the whole thing took 8 years. But what might have happened is that Bamber was allowed to submit more 'evidence' as the years went by, whilst the commission reviewed previous submitted 'evidence'.
There was definitely a process of some kind that happened, that took a lot longer than 3 months.
As for Bamber submitting evidence on one issue only, this is highly unlikely, as the commission wrote the following in its conclusion in 2012:
"Matters of pure speculation or unsubstantiated allegation constitute neither new evidence nor new argument capable of giving rise to a real possibility that the Court of Appeal will quash a conviction.
"Neither can such a real possibility arise from the accumulation of multiple unsubstantiated allegations.
'multiple unsubstantiated allegations' must refer to multiple grounds of contention.
Remember Bamber is a creature of habit, he behaves in a totally predictable way. So, in the 1990's he submitted 16 grounds of contention, and his latest submission there are 8 grounds, with multiple sub grounds. So it would be strange that Bamber only submitted one ground in 2012.
In 2012 Bamber said that he had held some grounds of contention back so that if the 2012 appeal was unsuccessful, he could start another appeal.
The bloke is a piece of work like no other.
"Longest running case" refers only to the application to appeal for which the 109 page report was published in 2012.
The CCRC said:
A spokesman added: "This is a final decision and brings to a close the Commission's current longest running case.
"The Commission has given due consideration to all the submissions made, old and new, before making a final decision on whether to refer the case to the Court of Appeal."
That first sentence only refers to the current case, as they said "brings to a close".
If the whole thing was brought to a close, then he wouldn't be able to appeal again. They are only referring to the current case, not the whole thing from 1989.
If it took 3 months to get to the final decision in 2012, why has it taken a year with this one?
You have to take everything they say on the blue forum with a pinch of salt.
The process may have worked differently for the 2012 appeal, but my understanding is that the review process started in 2004 and ended with the 109 page report in 2012. So the whole thing took 8 years. But what might have happened is that Bamber was allowed to submit more 'evidence' as the years went by, whilst the commission reviewed previous submitted 'evidence'.
There was definitely a process of some kind that happened, that took a lot longer than 3 months.
As for Bamber submitting evidence on one issue only, this is highly unlikely, as the commission wrote the following in its conclusion in 2012:
"Matters of pure speculation or unsubstantiated allegation constitute neither new evidence nor new argument capable of giving rise to a real possibility that the Court of Appeal will quash a conviction.
"Neither can such a real possibility arise from the accumulation of multiple unsubstantiated allegations.
'multiple unsubstantiated allegations' must refer to multiple grounds of contention.
Remember Bamber is a creature of habit, he behaves in a totally predictable way. So, in the 1990's he submitted 16 grounds of contention, and his latest submission there are 8 grounds, with multiple sub grounds. So it would be strange that Bamber only submitted one ground in 2012.
In 2012 Bamber said that he had held some grounds of contention back so that if the 2012 appeal was unsuccessful, he could start another appeal.
The bloke is a piece of work like no other.
Bamber may have started getting information together straight after his 2002 failure. But didn't submit his application in 2004 & then wait 8 years.
A 3 month wait on one issue sounds right.
If the final CCRC report in 2012 was 109 pages, then at 450 words per page, that would be a 50,000 word report.
The 2002 CoA report is also 50,000 words long (all figures approx).
The 2002 CoA report contains analysis of 16 grounds of contention from Bamber.
So there is no way that the 2012 CCRC report only contains one ground of contention from Bamber.
Here is a timeline for the CCRC application that ended in 2012 (The following details come from Carol Ann Lee's book)
By March 2004, his legal team had submitted another request for his case
to be referred to the Court of Appeal. The CCRC made a
provisional decision to reject the application due to its limited scope.
The CCRC made a second provisional decision not to refer his case in
March 2007.
The then latest submissions to the CCRC were voluminous, presented over
a long period by Jeremy, his legal representatives, his fiancée and a
dedicated supporter who was himself a former fellow prisoner.
In February 2011, the CCRC informed Jeremy that they had
provisionally decided not to refer his case to the Court of Appeal, but if he
wished to make further submissions he should do so within the year.
Experts were commissioned to study the
photographs and documentation regarding the marks on Nevill’s back
Philip Boyce conducted experiments on pigskin
So, my interpretation of the above is this:
He applied to the CCRC in 2004. The ground(s) of contention were considered. His application was provisionally refused, and he was invited to submit more evidence if he had it.
He submitted further grounds of contention
These further grounds were provisionally refused in 2007 , and he was invited to submit further grounds if he had any.
Bamber submitted further grounds of contention
These grounds were provisionally refused in 2011, and he was invited to submit further grounds if he had any.
Bamber submitted further grounds of contention. This further ground was the burn marks in Nevill's back, plus the pigskin experiment, including the TV documentary. I'm guessing that the CCRC took 3 months to investigate this point before rejecting it.
So the original 2004 application to the CCRC was finally thrown out in 2012 because the CCRC decided that finally, Bamber had had enough opportunity to enter all of his grounds for appeal.
So that's how I think it took 8 years to complete the application, and I think that it's the burn marks on Nevill's back that took 3 months to investigate.
I'm guessing that if the burn marks took 3 months to investigate, then the CCRC may spend a similar amount of time on each ground. If that's the case then Bamber's 8 grounds that he submitted a year ago may take up to another year to complete.
Also I'd imagine that the CCRC could provisionally reject those 8 grounds, whilst allowing him to submit more grounds. So the process may be over within the year, or this latest application may have another 5 or 8 or 10 years to go, depending on whether the CCRC invite him to submit more grounds.
Interesting. Wonder what the other grounds were. There was a lot of publicity about the burn marks in 2012, but nothing else.
And what does ‘patron’ Dennis Eady say
Empowering the Innocent (ETI)@EmpowerInnocentArticle for CCRC Watch by Bill Robertson:
"Should ex police officers be allowed to work as Case Review Managers at the CCRC?"
https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/should-ex-police-officers-be-allowed-to-work-as-case-review-managers-at-the-ccrc…
@ccrcupdate
#miscarriagesofjustice
#wrongfulconvictions
12:42 pm · 15 Feb 2022·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmpowerInnocent/status/1493566480729919490
1 ‘like’ 1 ‘retweet’
Empowering the Innocent (ETI)@EmpowerInnocentArticle for CCRC Watch by Bill Robertson:
"Should ex police officers be allowed to work as Case Review Managers at the CCRC?"
https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/should-ex-police-officers-be-allowed-to-work-as-case-review-managers-at-the-ccrc…
@ccrcupdate
#miscarriagesofjustice
#wrongfulconvictions
12:42 pm · 15 Feb 2022·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmpowerInnocent/status/1493566480729919490
1 ‘like’ 1 ‘retweet’
Some of the ‘ex police officers’ involved with the previous innocence fraud phenomenon (See John M Collins - Crime Lab Report) cases should never have been allowed to work for the CCRC or at least their political motivations and personal agendas should have been scrutinised and all efforts should have been made to ensure these individuals possessed the ability to be objective
But I suspect the calibre the CCRC may have working for them now to be different to the types of individuals they had working for them before
I believe both the CCRC and the SCCRC are incapable of bringing genuine miscarriage of justice cases to the courts. If you are wrongfully convicted in the UK you are basically stuffed unless you have a pile of cash to throw at lawyers.
From Jon Robins book, ‘The First Miscarriage of Justice’ (Link above)
“Ralph was the first investigations adviser at the CCRC”
What cases was ‘Ralph’ involved in and were the ‘Commissions best-known case’s’ based on factual innocence or technicalities?
‘Ralph’ was apparently “former head of Essex CID”
Jon Robins states, “I was commissioning a collection of essays called ‘Wrongly Accused: who is responsible for investigating miscarriages of justice?’ It featured contributions from leading lights in the miscarriage world - investigative journalists such as David Jessel, lawyers like Michael Mansfield QC and Campbell Malone, academics and campaigners. I was keen to have a strong CCRC perspective, and it was suggested I make contact with Ralph who had stepped down from the CCRC after 13 years service in 2011 at the age of 67.”
The ‘essays’ can be read here https://strathprints.strath.ac.uk/40223/1/SJ_Miscarriages_of_Justice_LOW_RES.pdf and Ralph Barringtons ‘Up for the job’ can be found on page 34
Without doubt there has been skullduggery taking place at the CCRC
“Ralph was the first investigations adviser at the CCRC”
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Ly-7BAAAQBAJ&pg=PA236&lpg=PA236&dq=jon+robins+miscarriages+of+justice+thesis&source=bl&ots=0KerOM9Qkj&sig=ACfU3U3i7tBDel_iI8cHq-TNOkq7EVdVlQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiH2qTombfjAhWHLsAKHbenBgo4ChDoATALegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=jon%20robins%20miscarriages%20of%20justice%20thesis&f=false
So predictable https://www.thejusticegap.com/miscarriage-of-justice-watchdog-unable-to-confirm-how-many-of-its-investigators-are-former-police-officers/
Cops are the biggest liars around and especially so when they are witnesses at trials. Covering their own backsides and the backside of their colleagues is second nature to them. Slotting them into the CCRC after retirement is just a cosy and convenient way to keep control.
Just like the corrupt FSS, these government bodies are unfit for purpose.
WHY UNIVERSITY INNOCENCE PROJECTS HARM THE INNOCENT
https://twitter.com/InnocenceFraud/status/1494996460181590018
By empowerinnocent Aka Michael Naughton
‘CCRC Watch is an Empowering the Innocent (ETI) project which seeks to highlight the limitations of the CCRC in dealing with applications from alleged innocent victims of wrongful convictions due to restrictive nature of the 'real possibility' test.
It features articles from a wide range of interested parties, including alleged innocent victims of wrongful convictions, their supporters, lawyers, journalists, academics, students and concerned members of the public, which centre on applications that are rejected by the CCRC not because applicants are not innocent but, rather, because they are not deemed to have the so called 'fresh' evidence required to have their case referred back to the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division).
Overall, CCRC Watch offers constructive critiques and recommendations for how the CCRC might better fulfil its public mandate to assist innocent victims to overturn their wrongful convictions.
https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/about
🙄
Jeremy definitely attracts a certain type of person doesn't he?Deffo unhinged. Better give the Ukrainians advance warning not to mount his Scammel if they don't want be blown to smithereens...
The life-saving, death-wish trip to Ukraine has been cancelled, so Bamber's pleaded with his bestie to sell off Verity and swell the campaign team's ever-dwindling coffers...
https://davidhender.life/2022/04/30/a-plea-from-jeremy-bamber/ (https://davidhender.life/2022/04/30/a-plea-from-jeremy-bamber/)
“Six months I’ve wasted hanging on”More like 36 years wasted persuading the gullible that he's innocent.
?
“Six months I’ve wasted hanging on”
?
More like 36 years wasted persuading the gullible that he's innocent.
Is Yvonne Hartley still doing her videos or has she finally realised she’s been groomed and conned?She was somewhat peeved at not appearing in Louis Theroux's excellent series unless they ditched the idea of her sat on a bed in a pink boudoir phoning her bestie in the slammer. From then on the podcasts have been all downhill and little to do with the Bamber case. Just biding her time now until the CCRC chuck this submission in their waste bin, then it'll be back again to same old pointless grindstone.
She was somewhat peeved at not appearing in Louis Theroux's excellent series unless they ditched the idea of her sat on a bed in a pink boudoir phoning her bestie in the slammer. From then on the podcasts have been all downhill and little to do with the Bamber case. Just biding her time now until the CCRC chuck this submission in their waste bin, then it'll be back again to same old pointless grindstone.
Until these twomoronsrecognise and address the innocence fraud phenomenon
(which Michael Naughton was involved with via Joan Albert’s killer https://theerrorsthatplaguethemiscarriageofjusticemovement.home.blog/2021/12/19/wrongful-convictions-miscarriages-of-justice-innocence-fraud-whats-the-difference/)
I suspect their comments will fall on deaf ears
Why weren’t questions like this asked back in 2013 following the exposure of Joan Albert’s killers innocence fraud?
Were the ‘police’ involved in Joan Albert’s killers innocemce fraud or lawyers, journalists, so called ‘academics’ and others ?
Empowering the Innocent (ETI)
@EmpowerInnocent
'CCRC Watch: Can we transform the current miscarriages of justice ‘lapdog’ into a genuine ‘watchdog’ body that can truly assist innocent victims to overturn their wrongful convictions?' https://legalresearch.blogs.bris.ac.uk/2022/04/ccrc-watch-can-we-seek-to-transform-the-current-miscarriages-of-justice-lapdog-into-a-genuine-watchdog-body-that-can-truly-assist-innocent-victims-to-overturn-thei/…
@ccrcupdate
12:08 pm · 25 Apr 2022·Twitter Web App
https://mobile.twitter.com/EmpowerInnocent/status/1518547369536667654?cxt=HHwWjICy_a6y-5IqAAAA
The CCRC have been involved in ‘innocence’ fraud, since it began
The Birmingham 6 case/campaign looks like another example of innocence fraud
The slamdunk-blockbuster piece of evidence has arrived at long last...
https://davidhender.life/2022/05/11/a-4-parter-from-jeremy-bamber/ (https://davidhender.life/2022/05/11/a-4-parter-from-jeremy-bamber/)
... or has it?
The slamdunk-blockbuster piece of evidence has arrived at long last...
https://davidhender.life/2022/05/11/a-4-parter-from-jeremy-bamber/ (https://davidhender.life/2022/05/11/a-4-parter-from-jeremy-bamber/)
... or has it?
Sounds like he’s after David’s moneyAlready flogged Verity maybe?... "Thank you, it is now in my own account".
Already flogged Verity maybe?... "Thank you, it is now in my own account".
The life-saving, death-wish trip to Ukraine has been cancelled, so Bamber's pleaded with his bestie to sell off Verity and swell the campaign team's ever-dwindling coffers...
https://davidhender.life/2022/04/30/a-plea-from-jeremy-bamber/ (https://davidhender.life/2022/04/30/a-plea-from-jeremy-bamber/)
All smoke and mirrors as expected! So what if Essex Police had to move furniture, cushions, etc. to gain access to a scene of carnage? They didn't murder his family... Jeremy Bamber was, is and always will be guilty of doing that...
https://davidhender.life/2022/05/28/the-long-overdue-new-multi-parter-from-jeremy-bamber/ (https://davidhender.life/2022/05/28/the-long-overdue-new-multi-parter-from-jeremy-bamber/)
https://davidhender.life/2022/05/28/two-more-messages-from-jeremy-but-he-is-realistic/ (https://davidhender.life/2022/05/28/two-more-messages-from-jeremy-but-he-is-realistic/)
"My friend, Jeremy Bamber is on a roll"..... to Nowhere -
https://davidhender.life/2022/06/12/my-friend-jeremy-bamber-is-on-a-roll/ (https://davidhender.life/2022/06/12/my-friend-jeremy-bamber-is-on-a-roll/)
I doubt that he would welcome any counselling whatsover though, being far too self-obsessed, opinionated and getting a kick out of slinging mud at his family, the police, the judiciary, his lawyers, his doctor and the staff of GB News. I've probably missed out a few others!
The first paragraph shows what a fantasist he is. Does he realise how crazy he sounds?
He still lies, he still manipulates, he is still deluded. That is all that I get from these letters.
He is also desperate. Bamber is reduced to communicating with someone who comes across as having his own pretty serious psychological issues. That David bloke needs counselling rather than 'conversations' with a mass murderer.
It just shows how little interest there is these days in Jeremy Bamber.
Bill Robertson is apparently deputy editor of ‘CCRC watch’ https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/ccrc-in-the-dog-house
Is he not aware of Michael Naughton’s involvement in killer Simon Hall’s Innocence Fraud
And sadly Jane Metcalfe aka Hanksoff03 has been taken in by two dangerous men; killer Robin Garbutt and Michael Naughton
Fantasist & con woman Michelle ‘devil incarnate’ Diskin Bates caught in the lie, againOMG!... the clueless god-botherer strikes again!
👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y5phfoZjk (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y5phfoZjk)
*&^^&
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y5phfoZjk
OMG!... the clueless god-botherer strikes again!
OMG!... the clueless god-botherer strikes again!
Listened to the first five minutes on Bamber, then couldn't be bothered with the rest.
First we have live photo coverage taken from a plane flying over WHF showing the police presence outside, then no flights were allowed over to prevent those inside from being disturbed... as if the press would have had access to an aircraft that early on in the story... and in 1985 too. Which is it ?!!!
The lesson is... If you know absolutely nothing about the case, stay well away if you don't want to appear foolish.
The lesson is... If you know absolutely nothing about the case, stay well away if you don't want to appear foolish.
OMG!... the clueless god-botherer strikes again!
Listened to the first five minutes on Bamber, then couldn't be bothered with the rest.
First we have live photo coverage taken from a plane flying over WHF showing the police presence outside, then no flights were allowed over to prevent those inside from being disturbed... as if the press would have had access to an aircraft that early on in the story... and in 1985 too. Which is it ?!!!
The lesson is... If you know absolutely nothing about the case, stay well away if you don't want to appear foolish.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y5phfoZjk
Fantasist & con woman Michelle ‘devil incarnate’ Diskin Bates caught in the lie, again
👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y5phfoZjk
*&^^&
Fantasist & con woman Michelle ‘devil incarnate’ Diskin Bates caught in the lie, again
👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y5phfoZjk
*&^^&
OMG!... the clueless god-botherer strikes again!
Listened to the first five minutes on Bamber, then couldn't be bothered with the rest.
First we have live photo coverage taken from a plane flying over WHF showing the police presence outside, then no flights were allowed over to prevent those inside from being disturbed... as if the press would have had access to an aircraft that early on in the story... and in 1985 too. Which is it ?!!!
The lesson is... If you know absolutely nothing about the case, stay well away if you don't want to appear foolish.
Liar Philip Walker began the podcast by saying con woman, liar and fantasist Michelle Diskin Bates ran her murderous brother ‘innocence’ fraud PR smear campaign *&^^&
In reality it was started and set up by Mike Burke, the uncle
https://twitter.com/HiddenInjustice/status/1392040855465304066
Fantasist & con woman Michelle ‘devil incarnate’ Diskin Bates caught in the lie, again
👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y5phfoZjk
*&^^&
Why did con woman and fantasist Michelle Diskin Bates choose to tell yet more lies about psychopathic mass murderer, child killer, coercive controller and drug/date rapist Jeremy Bamber and how it is she’s the only person to have ever seen what she claims to have done on night time TV - which didn’t exist at the time when she claimed to have seen it?
Anne Flynn should ‘stay well away’ too https://www.thejusticegap.com/24308-2/
Sounds like they’ve ⬆️ copied trans rights activists https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/11/trans-women-are-women-london-landmarks/
Same Euan McIlvride here 👇 who con woman Sandra Lean seemingly had a run in with
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10768.msg542680#msg542680
Why hasn’t mass murderer, child killer, coercive controller & drug date rapist Jeremy Bamber patron Michelle Diskin Bates published all details about her brothers previous convictions?
How did Jill Dando’s killer Barry George really behave before he was rebranded by people like his con woman sister?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zx0OoOodVMQ
Wrong link 👆🏽
👇
Barry George didn’t have an ‘epileptic seizure’ when he raped Karen Gray
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wxU0uqqWflg
Wrong link 👆🏽
👇
Barry George didn’t have an ‘epileptic seizure’ when he raped Karen Gray
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wxU0uqqWflg
Wrong link 👆🏽
👇
Barry George didn’t have an ‘epileptic seizure’ when he raped Karen Gray or when he was known as Steve Majors and fractured his femur & dislocated his spine
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wxU0uqqWflg
Wrong link 👆🏽Who the hell funded that ludicrously crackpot bus-jumping stunt?!!!
👇
Barry George didn’t have an ‘epileptic seizure’ when he raped Karen Gray or when he was known as Steve Majors and fractured his femur & dislocated his spine
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wxU0uqqWflg (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wxU0uqqWflg)
Who the hell funded that ludicrously crackpot bus-jumping stunt?!!!
Sandra Lean
One thing they didn't think about - eventually, all these families would get together, compare experiences and discover the same tactics are being used up and down the country. And those families would band together, support each other and expose the whole rotten system xxx https://www.facebook.com/1011563515/posts/10216102694892753/
‘They’ did & the malicious tactics being used by people like Sandra Lean & Michael Naughton and the families of guilty killers and rapists, for example, is the same
The ‘innocence’ fraud con of killers like Jeremy Bamber, Barry George & Luke Mitchell uses the same playbook
Who the hell funded that ludicrously crackpot bus-jumping stunt?!!!
Who the hell funded that ludicrously crackpot bus-jumping stunt?!!!
Who the hell funded that ludicrously crackpot bus-jumping stunt?!!!
How did he get to Long Eaton, Derbyshire ?A definite impulsive risk-taker, shown by his lack of foresight of what could go wrong on that silly stunt without adequate preparation and ignoring advice to call it off under inclement weather conditions.
Or did he gamble on the greyhounds ?
Fantasist & con woman Michelle ‘devil incarnate’ Diskin Bates caught in the lie, again
👇
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y5phfoZjk
*&^^&
I wasn't all that familiar with the Jill Dando murder case, but the full series is worth a watch to anyone with the time and inclination. Not very well organised, so you will have to pick your way through the video list from 1 to 12...
https://www.youtube.com/c/TrueCrimeReport/videos (https://www.youtube.com/c/TrueCrimeReport/videos)
'Comments are turned off'.If you have a YouTube account you'll be able to comment now or when the audio begins tomorrow at 5am, where it says "Top chat" on the right-hand side. Comments usually come through thick and fast then, but as it starts so early no doubt many will either be "sleeping like a log" or too busy devouring their Weetabix.
... for it to end.
@)(++(*Hi Caroline. I see you're still toiling behind the scenes over at Dead End Gulch, waiting for the submission to be kicked, not just into touch, but over the roof of the stadium into the wilderness where it belongs. Appears it's gonna be mushy sprouts, lumpy gravy and Christmas pud well past its use-by-date for endless years to come.
Hi Caroline. I see you're still toiling behind the scenes over at Dead End Gulch, waiting for the submission to be kicked, not just into touch, but over the roof of the stadium into the wilderness where it belongs. Appears it's gonna be mushy sprouts, lumpy gravy and Christmas pud well past its use-by-date for endless years to come.
Just came across this video about an Anschutz 525... can you spot something odd about it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XrYzDBwduM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XrYzDBwduM)
Hi Mister ()678% - Yes, no early release for Mr B this side of Christmas (again). All seems quiet as far as the subs are concerned, even the CT seem to have given up - mind you, I don't follow any of their rubbish these days.Not of major, or even minor importance, but...
Not sure what you mean about the video, the only thing I spotted was that even though the guy is used to the rifle, he found it hard to operate initially? Great find!! Best vid I have seen of one being operated. 8((()*/
Not of major, or even minor importance, but...
He said his magazine held a total of 8 rounds, and when fired on three occasions, you could see that was correct by counting the number of shots. It helps if you slow down the video to 0.5 (half-speed)... which also makes him sound half-cut, LOL!
Wonder if it was a genuine but modified Anschutz magazine fitted with a stronger, longer spring which reduced the full complement of bullets from 10 to 8? Or maybe because the rifle mechanism would seize up if he used more than 8? Malcolm Fletcher? had a similar jamming problem at the Fingringhoe demo for the jury. I don't think Anschutz ever produced an eight-round magazine, did they?
I posted a comment re. the above but it never appeared... either he or YouTube removed it for some reason, even though it wasn't offensive in any way. Could be because I linked to a gunsmith's photo advert (below) for a genuine ten-round Anschutz magazine, exactly like the claimed eight-round one he held up to the camera. Or perhaps because I asked if he knew of a genuine murder case featuring an Anschutz and gave a link to the Wiki article on WHF, as he mentioned that his rifle was used as a prop in a fictional movie about a farmer who committed suicide.
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/001155 (https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/001155)
Noticed too that as it hadn't been used for a while, he forgot to release the trigger lock and chamber the bullet initially, as you said. Can you imagine Sheila C. in the middle of a frantic "psychotic episode" fiddling about with the lock, let alone actually loading 25 rounds considering that she was unfamiliar and had never used it before!
And also how quiet it was with moderator fitted, although not a Parker-Hale. I know you're sceptical (re. EP up to mischief with the red paint?), but I think the P-H was on throughout to reduce the chance of waking other family members.
Unrelated to the above, I also asked what the unusual drum-shaped object on a tripod was for, other than as a shooting rest, but never got an answer to that either.
I'll take another look. I did hear him mention 8 bullets but I thought that's just how many he used LOL.He didn't mention whether his was a 525 (as at WHF) or an earlier 520 model. They both appear very similar with only slight cosmetic changes as mentioned in the second post by someone called shugie here...
Is this the same model of rifle used at WHF?
Yet more non-news, or how to clutch at shonky pre-used straws...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11319319/Killer-Jeremy-Bamber-attempts-overturn-farmhouse-murders-conviction.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11319319/Killer-Jeremy-Bamber-attempts-overturn-farmhouse-murders-conviction.html)
Which part of a solid-fuel AGA was likely to cause three tiny burn marks on NB's back?...
None of it, he's no where near it, unless the killer moved him - which point to Bamber again.I'd like to see exactly which part they claim caused the burns (no protruding part would get hot enough, and the ashpit door would have to be open for any red-hot clinker to have caused them) but, as with the rest that's been concealed, I guess we'll never get to know.
I'd like to see exactly which part they claim caused the burns (no protruding part would get hot enough, and the ashpit door would have to be open for any red-hot clinker to have caused them) but, as with the rest that's been concealed, I guess we'll never get to know.
Just about to go through Bill Robertson's piffle re. SC's countless "wounds"... I read though it a while back, it was nonsense then and I can't see it being any different now. Why am I not surprised that Peter Vanezis never replied to his ridiculous accusatory emails. He can't even get Mad Mike's surname right.