J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...

[puglove]

Mmmm... So there must be a moose loose aboot his hoose!   &%+((£

  

There are a few bats flapping around in his belfry, too!

[Holly Goodhead]

The Grim Reaper is sharpening his scythe on blue and Tesko's looking for a suitable donor for all the documents in his possession.  It's only about 100 miles between Dur... ham and Barnsley, so if Caroline sets off in her Reliant Robin to pick 'em up, should only take her a couple of hours at the most.

I'm surprised anyone bothers reading Mike's posts but they do as he often gets replies.  It's difficult enough searching for the truth without Mike's BS.

I hope he helps Caro distribute the 50,000 docs evenly across her Reliant Robin or they might all end up tipping over 

[Holly Goodhead]

I hope she hasn't burst.   

I think her bubble has &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

Found some information Holly on the phones in WHF in CAL book....

There were 3 telephones in the farmhouse on the night of the shootings. A cordless 'Envoy' having been removed by Douglas Pike on 5th August with no replacement being left.

1) In Kitchen..having been removed from Master Bedroom

2) Fawn 'Statesman' Found  sequestered among the magazines in kitchen. JB said it wasn't working but Barbara Wilson checked it out and it was in working order.

3) The blue 'Sceptre 100' remained in its usual spot in the upstairs office.

Notes and References.
Michael Ainsley states that the 'Sceptre 100' was connected in the office and in working order on the morning of the 7th August 1985 when it was used by the firearms team 'who were unable to use the kitchen telephone for obvious reasons' Michael Ainsley 'Report'.

Good find.  Thanks Opal.  We know June walked round the bed, possibly intending to use the phone, so it is possible she was attempting to get to the phone in the upstairs office.  Amazing she was able to do what she did, mentally and physically, having just sustained 6 gunshots at the hand of one of her adopted children.

[scipio_usmc]

Good find.  Thanks Opal.  We know June walked round the bed, possibly intending to use the phone, so it is possible she was attempting to get to the phone in the upstairs office.  Amazing she was able to do what she did, mentally and physically, having just sustained 6 gunshots at the hand of one of her adopted children.

There is no evidence to suggest she tried to go to the bathroom.  It would be faster to simply go downstairs to the kitchen than to go to the bathroom and unbolt the door to try to get into the store room to pass through it to finally get to the office. They did not use the link between the bath and storeroom, they would keep it locked.  They didn't leave it open so that someone in the upstairs office could use the 2nd floor bath or toilet. Someone in the upstairs office who wanted to use the toilet would use the one on the ground floor. 

They essentially treated the upstairs office and storeroom as separate from the rest of the upstairs which was used only for sleeping quarters. That certainly offered more privacy to them than it would if people could pass freely through the store room to the sleeping quarters.

[Holly Goodhead]

There is no evidence to suggest she tried to go to the bathroom.  It would be faster to simply go downstairs to the kitchen than to go to the bathroom and unbolt the door to try to get into the store room to pass through it to finally get to the office. They did not use the link between the bath and storeroom, they would keep it locked.  They didn't leave it open so that someone in the upstairs office could use the 2nd floor bath or toilet. Someone in the upstairs office who wanted to use the toilet would use the one on the ground floor. 

They essentially treated the upstairs office and storeroom as separate from the rest of the upstairs which was used only for sleeping quarters. That certainly offered more privacy to them than it would if people could pass freely through the store room to the sleeping quarters.

I'm just trying to figure out what June was doing in the bedroom in terms of walking round the bed and then ending up by the main door.  It might be she was just wondering aimlessly completely lost, mentally and physically.  Or it might be she still had the presence of mind to try and take some practical action by seeking out the telephone normally in the main bedroom.  When she realised this was missing she may have been heading down the landing to the phone in the upstairs office.

I've often wondered what the arrangements were in terms of accommodating BW.  I would not want people traipsing through my home to get to a home office.  It seems the two were separated but if June was able to push a bolt over her side then potentially she had access to an upstairs phone.

If she was able to do the above she must have been aware NB and the perp were downstairs.

[Opal]

There is no evidence to suggest she tried to go to the bathroom.  It would be faster to simply go downstairs to the kitchen than to go to the bathroom and unbolt the door to try to get into the store room to pass through it to finally get to the office. They did not use the link between the bath and storeroom, they would keep it locked.  They didn't leave it open so that someone in the upstairs office could use the 2nd floor bath or toilet. Someone in the upstairs office who wanted to use the toilet would use the one on the ground floor. 

They essentially treated the upstairs office and storeroom as separate from the rest of the upstairs which was used only for sleeping quarters. That certainly offered more privacy to them than it would if people could pass freely through the store room to the sleeping quarters.

You could be right but, where does it say that the upstairs bathroom was locked at all times? JB could have easily bolted the bathroom door from the inside before leaving via the store room/office.  It makes more sense that should the twins or the family need the loo during the night the upstairs bathroom was available...why else have an upstairs bathroom? The 'bolt' being on the bathroom side, not the landing side.This is probably why there was a bolt on the door...for privacy whilst in there. I'm pretty sure I'm correct with the location of the bolt...ie. inside bathroom door. The police managed to get through the upstairs office into a store room.

[scipio_usmc]

I'm just trying to figure out what June was doing in the bedroom in terms of walking round the bed and then ending up by the main door.  It might be she was just wondering aimlessly completely lost, mentally and physically.  Or it might be she still had the presence of mind to try and take some practical action by seeking out the telephone normally in the main bedroom.  When she realised this was missing she may have been heading down the hall to the upstairs phone.

I've often wondered what the arrangements were in terms of accommodating BW.  I would not want people traipsing through my home to get to a home office.  It seems the two were separated but if June was able to push a bolt over her side then potentially she had access to an upstairs phone.

If she was able to do the above she must have been aware NB and the perp were downstairs.

We will never know why she walked to Nevill's side of the bed. There are multiple possibilities including:

1) she went after the attacker who was struggling with her husband
2) she went to try to check her husband's injuries after the killer departed to go reload
3) she ran to her husband to be protected after the killer departed
4) after the killer and Nevill departed she went to seek out the phone but found it missing so turned around to go out the door but was too severely injured to make it
5) was in a daze and walking around the room incoherently before collapsing

So it could be something as inconsequential as just being disoriented, seeking a phone to call 999 or something more complex like the parents trying to fight Jeremy.

Jeremy may not even know why she walked around the bed he would only know if she did it while he was present and he would only be present if she tried to confront him because if he was present she would have to go through him to walk to the other side. The only reason to approach him would be to confront him.  She did have a black eye so it is possible she tried to confront him and he punched her. While many assume Nevill somehow broke past him and fled and then he pursued Nevill, it is quite possible and in my view even more likely that Jeremy fled with Nevill pursing him. He could have simply decided to flee to go reload as soon as the gun was empty but it is also possible one or both parents tried to disarm him there and then and he fled to go reload because of such. I don't know what good it does wondering since we will never know the answer no matter how much we wonder. I spend my time trying to figure out things we have the ability to actually figure out.

 

[Holly Goodhead]

We will never know why she walked to Nevill's side of the bed. There are multiple possibilities including:

1) she went after the attacker who was struggling with her husband
2) she went to try to check her husband's injuries after the killer departed to go reload
3) she ran to her husband to be protected after the killer departed
4) after the killer and Nevill departed she went to seek out the phone but found it missing so turned around to go out the door but was too severely injured to make it
5) was in a daze and walking around the room incoherently before collapsing

So it could be something as inconsequential as just being disoriented, seeking a phone to call 999 or something more complex like the parents trying to fight Jeremy.

Jeremy may not even know why she walked around the bed he would only know if she did it while he was present and he would only be present if she tried to confront him because if he was present she would have to go through him to walk to the other side. The only reason to approach him would be to confront him.  She did have a black eye so it is possible she tried to confront him and he punched her. While many assume Nevill somehow broke past him and fled and then he pursued Nevill, it is quite possible and in my view even more likely that Jeremy fled with Nevill pursing him. He could have simply decided to flee to go reload as soon as the gun was empty but it is also possible one or both parents tried to disarm him there and then and he fled to go reload because of such. I don't know what good it does wondering since we will never know the answer no matter how much we wonder. I spend my time trying to figure out things we have the ability to actually figure out.

It's good to wonder!

You know my views on the bedroom and I don't propose to go over them again.

As far as I can see there's no pathological evidence June sustained a black eye from any hand-to-hand combat?  I think it is probably bruising from gunshot?  Probably the gunshot wound she sustained between the eyes.  Bruising isn't just contained to the immediate area of injury it spreads.

[scipio_usmc]

You could be right but, where does it say that the upstairs bathroom was locked at all times? JB could have easily bolted the bathroom door from the inside before leaving via the store room/office.  It makes more sense that should the twins or the family need the loo during the night the upstairs bathroom was available...why else have an upstairs bathroom? The 'bolt' being on the bathroom side, not the landing side.This is probably why there was a bolt on the door...for privacy whilst in there. I'm pretty sure I'm correct with the location of the bolt...ie. inside bathroom door. The police managed to get through the upstairs office into a store room.

After killing everyone why would Jeremy lock the door between the bathroom and store room? There was a separate toilet upstairs to use for urinating and taking a dump.  The bathroom was used for taking baths.
With the exception of a Jack and Jill bathroom, when baths have 2 doors one is always kept locked.  A Jack and Jill bathroom is in between 2 bedrooms and has a door from each.  Since it has to be shared by both rooms both doors are speed until someone is inside using it in which case both doors will be locked.

The business part of the upstairs and living quarters were intentionally kept separate. Would you want workers and visitors free to roam around your bedroom?   

[Myster]

It's good to wonder!

I do a lot of wondering about you!  ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyrQqmc5UT8

[scipio_usmc]

It's good to wonder!

You know my views on the bedroom and I don't propose to go over them again.

As far as I can see there's no pathological evidence June sustained a black eye from any hand-to-hand combat?  I think it is probably bruising from gunshot?  Probably the gunshot wound she sustained between the eyes.  Bruising isn't just contained to the immediate area of injury it spreads.

We don't know for sure whether she had the black eye before the murders but it is more likely it is from the murders than predated the murders. 

The gunshot wound between her eyes did not fracture the bone above her eye socket that is what causes a black eye from a GSW that is higher than the eyes.

[Holly Goodhead]

I do a lot of wondering about you!  ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyrQqmc5UT8

Thank you!

x

Up in the 'like' rankings.

[Holly Goodhead]

We don't know for sure whether she had the black eye before the murders but it is more likely it is from the murders than predated the murders. 

The gunshot wound between her eyes did not fracture the bone above her eye socket that is what causes a black eye from a GSW that is higher than the eyes.

It seems unlikely the black eye predated the murders.  Surely June would have mentioned to PB in the 10pm ish phone call.  Especially when the pair were arranging to meet up in the next day or so.

When I had all 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed I had severe bruising all over my upper chest.  It was far worse on my chest than round my jaw.  Bruising isn't just restricted to the trauma site it spreads out.

Bullets can ricochet around internally and the hollow point design look particularly nasty.

Or maybe June caught herself on the door when she fell which caused the bruising.

[scipio_usmc]

It seems unlikely the black eye predated the murders.  Surely June would have mentioned to PB in the 10pm ish phone call.  Especially when the pair were arranging to meet up in the next day or so.

When I had all 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed I had severe bruising all over my upper chest.  It was far worse on my chest than round my jaw.  Bruising isn't just restricted to the trauma site it spreads out.

Bullets can ricochet around internally and the hollow point design look particularly nasty.

Or maybe June caught herself on the door when she fell which caused the bruising.

A hollowpoint will penetrate less than will a similarly sized ordinary bullet. They are made to expand and thus to damage a larger area which in turn means less penetration.  By damaging a larger area this can wind up hitting a vital area that a bullet that doesn't expand could miss. Of course an ordinary bullet can hit a vital area in which case it matters not one bit. A bullet that penetrates more can exit and if it misses any vital areas that winds up being less severe than a bullet that remains inside the body. Hollowpoints can still exit the body though they simply have less penetration than a similarly sized ordinary bullet. Rifles will fire them at a higher velocity than handguns because the longer the barrel the more velocity which in turn also is a factor of penetration.

Police like hollowpoints because the reduced penetration means less a chance of a bullet exiting a target and harming someone else.

Regarding the black eye, if it was not from prior to the murders then how did Jeremy know she had a black eye unless he committed the murders?  He knew right away that she had a black eye and gave police a story that suggested June was battered by someone prior to the murders.  The funny thing is that "Miss Marples" picked up on this issue to a degree yet police totally missed it like they missed all red flags because they were wearing blinders.  If one chooses to believe Jeremy is innocent then he/she is forced to believe the black eye predated the murders.     

The bullet didn't do anything to the bone near the left side which would definitely cause a black eye. Bumping into something after she was shot is possible but doesn't change the fact it is just as possible Jeremy hit her.  There is no medical evidence that says it definitely came from the bullet wound and thus it is possible it predated the killings or was incurred during the killings by something other than being shot.  That there are multiple possibilities is why the prosecution didn't make an issue out of his knowledge of the black eye and why we will never know no matter how much you wonder.